October 17, 2024 • 24 mins
Join us, as we explore the incredible journey of Rana El Kaliouby, PhD, a trailblazing Egyptian-American entrepreneur and co-founder of BlueTip Ventures. Discover how her time at MIT's Media Lab ignited her passion for entrepreneurship, leading to the creation of Affectiva, a leader in emotion AI technology. Rana shares her candid experiences, from humorous financial jargon misunderstandings to her transformative work in using emotion AI for autism support, mental health diagnostics, and enhancing automotive safety. Her story is a testament to the power of blending emotional intelligence with technology to create meaningful human-centered innovations.
Transitioning to leadership wasn't without its hurdles for Rana, and we delve into the internal struggles entrepreneurs often face, such as overcoming self-doubt. She provides insights into how mentorship and a shift in mindset helped her navigate these challenges, paving the way for the creation of a venture fund dedicated to human-centric AI. Our discussion highlights the dual nature of AI, emphasizing its potential to solve global issues and the responsibility of using it ethically. We stress the importance of raising AI literacy to ensure a safe and promising future.
We also shine a light on pioneering companies like Happy Pillar and SynthPop, which are redefining healthcare with AI innovations. Happy Pillar uses AI to support mental health for families, while SynthPop revolutionizes healthcare operations with automated insurance processes. As we look to the future, the potential of AI agents as collaborative partners comes into focus. I share personal anecdotes, including my mother's influence as a pioneering computer programmer, and offer advice to aspiring AI entrepreneurs on building a competitive edge and investing in self-care. Don't miss the chance to connect with Rana and tune into "Pioneers of AI" for more groundbreaking insights.
Please visit www.internationalfacilitatorsorganization.com to learn more about Mo Fathelbab and International Facilitators Organization (IFO), a leading provider of facilitators and related group facilitation services, providing training, certification, marketing services, education, and community for peer group facilitators at all stages of their career.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:10):
Welcome to the Heart of Business podcast sponsored by
International FacilitatorsOrganization.
I'm your host, Mo Fatalbab.
Today, our guest is RanaIqal-Yubi, PhD and co-founder
and general partner at BlueTipVentures.
Welcome, Rana.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Thank you for having me Mo Good to see you again.
Speaker 1 (00:29):
Great to see you and great to have you with us.
I've been wanting to tell yourstory from the day we met.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
I'm glad we're doing it.
I'm excited.
Speaker 1 (00:38):
Thank you.
So I'd love to start with yourcareer journey.
You're a serial entrepreneur.
You've had some great successes.
Maybe tell us a bit about thatso the audience can get to know
you professionally a little bit.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
Yeah, well, we share one thing we're both
Egyptian-American.
I grew up in Egypt and aroundthe Middle East, studied
computer science as anundergraduate, did my PhD at
Cambridge University and I wasreally like taking the academic
track that was the vision or thegoal really Ended up at MIT as
a postdoc and caught theentrepreneurial bug.
(01:12):
So within a couple of years atMIT, I started my company,
affectiva.
We were on this mission tobuild artificial emotional
intelligence like basicallybuilding emotion AI, getting our
computers to recognize ouremotional states and there's a
whole range of applications,everything from helping autistic
kids to making our cars safer.
(01:32):
Anyway, I ended up selling thecompany three years ago now,
which was just crazy.
It feels in a way, it feelslike yesterday, but it also
feels like it's been a long time, and I've been spending my time
investing in AI startups andhelping founders on their
journeys you know, building AIcompanies.
Speaker 1 (01:52):
Amazing, amazing.
So what gave you theinspiration to be an
entrepreneur in the first place?
Speaker 2 (01:59):
You know, honestly, it was not at all on my radar.
I, you know, I grew up in afamily where, you know, nobody
in my family is an entrepreneur,so it wasn't really at all
something I thought about when Igot to MIT.
I remember this one meeting inDecember of 2008.
We were getting so muchinterest in the technology.
(02:21):
Like, basically, I was at theMIT Media Lab and we had like a
lot of the Fortune 500s weresponsors of the lab and twice a
year they would come to this bigevent and we would show the
technology.
It was demo or die.
You had to like show the actualtechnology in action.
And after that they kind ofwanted to use and buy the
technology.
(02:42):
And so this MIT professor Iworked with Professor Rosalind
Picard and myself we scheduled ameeting with the media lab
director at the time at MIT andwe were like we need some more
PhD students because all thesecompanies want our technology.
And he sat back and he was likethat is not a research
challenge, that's acommercialization opportunity.
(03:03):
You guys ought to start acompany.
And my knee-jerk reaction waswait a second, I'm about to
apply to become faculty at MIT.
What are you talking about?
But then I thought about it andfor me it was this amazing
opportunity to bring something Icare deeply about and scale it
to the rest of the world.
And yeah, that was the impetusfor spinning out of MIT and kind
(03:25):
of leaving my academic hatbehind and becoming a CEO.
And it wasn't easy, you know itwas.
It was not an easy journey, forsure.
Speaker 1 (03:32):
But you raised money or did you bootstrap it?
Tell us how you actually gotstarted.
Speaker 2 (03:38):
Yeah, roz and I put a little bit of our personal
money in, but we basically wereventure backed.
At some point we had KleinerPerkins and Mary Meeker was on
our board.
But can I share a story?
Okay, so our very first, likevery early on, we were being you
know, my background is I'm acomputer scientist, right, and
(03:59):
so this was my first foray intobusiness.
And one of the investors whowas courting us sent us an email
like just a one-liner, and hesaid send me your BS.
And I literally sat there and Iwas like I have no idea what
he's talking about.
The only BS I know you can'tpackage in an email.
And so we went to our board ofadvisors MIT is really good with
(04:21):
that Like they assign you aboard of, like, serial
entrepreneurs and like reallyyou know, domain experts.
And I was like what the heck isa BS?
And it's, of course, a balancesheet.
But that was the, that was thelearning curve I was on.
Speaker 1 (04:37):
Beautiful, beautiful.
And then you said it wassomething you deeply cared about
.
So what you deeply cared about,was it the technology or was it
the audiences that you helped?
You named people withdisabilities and something else.
Speaker 2 (04:50):
Yeah, the automotive industry.
Well, this is still true today,which is kind of wild.
When we first started in thisspace.
A lot of the emphasis ontechnology, and AI in particular
, is on what I call the IQ ofthe technology, the cognitive
intelligence, like how smart itis, right, but nobody's really
(05:10):
thinking about the emotional andsocial abilities of these
technologies, which is soimportant because we're you know
, we're using them as AI coachesand AI friends and you know
we're deferring to a lot ofdecision-making to these tools,
but we're not thinking about,we're not taking a human
centered approach to think aboutit.
So my vision is marrying IQ andEQ and AI, like bringing
(05:32):
emotional intelligence to AI.
So that's kind of one piece ofit and I'm still very passionate
about that.
But the audiences to your pointtoo, we did, we still.
You know there's a companywe're partnered with called
Brainpower and they focus onbringing this technology to
individuals on the autismspectrum.
There's a lot of mental healthuse cases of this technology.
(05:55):
I'm on a board of a companycalled Vedera Health and they
have this video app and throughan interview with a person, they
can detect telltale signs ofdepression, anxiety, even
suicidal intent, and then, ofcourse, the automotive use case.
So if you're driving a car andyou're distracted while driving
or you're kind of falling asleepbecause you're jet lagged, the
(06:18):
car can detect that andintervene.
So lots of applications.
Speaker 1 (06:24):
That is amazing.
So you sold the first companyand now you are invested in 50
different AI startups.
Is that correct?
Speaker 2 (06:32):
That is correct.
So when I exited Affectiva andit was hard, you know a lot of
my personal identity was tied tothe company.
So, honestly, the first, I'dsay, eight months were were kind
of I was going through anidentity crisis like who I if
I'm not the CEO of Affectiva,but I'm very passionate about
(06:54):
innovation in the AI space, andthis was 20, you know, 2021,
2022.
So it was right when ChatGPTlaunched and it sparked this.
I've been doing AI for many,many years but obviously this
was like a kind of a tippingpoint.
So, yeah, I was investing inall these AI companies,
supporting these AI founders ontheir journeys.
(07:16):
A lot of them are first timefounders.
Many of them are spinning outof academia, like I did, and so
bringing empathy yeah, empathyand shared it.
I mean, we're both members ofthe YPO, like Young Presidents
Organization, and you knowyou're taught never to give
advice but to share yourexperience, which I found to be
(07:39):
valuable.
Speaker 1 (07:40):
Yeah, well, let's talk about that for a minute.
So clearly you have joined aforum that we also know is a
peer group, and I'm wondering ifyou can just tell us a bit
about how it has benefited you.
Speaker 2 (07:53):
Oh my God.
Well, my first forum meetingwas April of 2021.
No, april of 2020.
That was COVID year.
Yeah, covid had just hit and wewere about to lay off.
We were about to do a layoffand I remember thinking I'm
going to hop on a call with avirtual call because nobody was
(08:15):
meeting in person with all thesestrangers and I'm going to talk
about our layoff, like how'sthat possible?
And, as you know, ypo scalestrust like no other organization
and within the first 30 minutes, we were all talking very
intimately about challenges,professionally and personally,
and I just got a lot of supportthrough, you know, through these
(08:37):
early days, but also through myexit, because some of my other
forum members had gone throughan exit themselves and they were
able to share their experiencesand help me honestly manage my
mental state through it all.
So that was really helpful.
And then, finally, I launched anew YPO chapter last year.
(08:58):
Ypo Boston very much focused ontech innovation in the Boston
area and a lot of like VC backedentrepreneurs.
And just this past week we hadour.
You know, we're a small chapter, we're about 30 people, so we
have only a couple of forums inthe chapter and I was sitting in
our forum meeting and one ofour members who's very new to
(09:19):
IPO and just extremely stressedout and just maxed out in
general and he just he had thissigh of relief and he was like
this is the only space I cantalk about any of this stuff and
he kind of expressed hisgratitude and I was like yes,
this is why I started a newchapter.
We need more people to be in YPO.
Speaker 1 (09:39):
Yeah, yeah, I love that Wonderful.
Go ahead please.
Speaker 2 (09:45):
I was going to ask you because you've been in YPO
for a long, long time and you'vebrought this trust and
vulnerability to a lot of spacesin YPO as well, right?
Speaker 1 (09:56):
Well, yeah, I mean, listen, I joined my forum in
1991.
It was an EO forum and we'restill together.
That's amazing, oh my God.
They've just been incrediblepeople and it's been nothing
short of life-changing.
As you know, ypo has been aclient since 1999.
I've been doing forum worksince 1999.
(10:17):
It's been quite quite a journeyand amazing people and lots of
great places.
It's just been, but it's been.
You know, it's food for thesoul more than anything.
I mean it's just gratifying tomeet people in this very
intimate space.
It's a gift.
Yeah, absolutely so.
Knowing the journey of anentrepreneur, I know that it's
(10:41):
not just up and up and meteoricall the way through.
There are lots of pitfalls andchallenges, and so I'd be
curious if you'd be able toshare one or two of your
difficult moments and how youovercame them.
Speaker 2 (10:57):
Oh yeah, well, I remember.
Yeah, there's definitely a lot,but just to but.
But.
But just to highlight a few.
Um, so when we started thecompany, one of our first
investors said you know, youneed to hire a seasoned CEO to,
to, to run the company.
And so my role was CTO and wehired, you know, this guy who
(11:19):
ran the company for a number ofyears and then he decided to
leave.
So the board were like, okay,who's going to be the next CEO?
We think it should be Rana.
It's her technology.
And I remember going back homeand thinking I'm too scared.
I've never been CEO before, Idon't want to fail.
So I came back the next day andtold the board I can't do it
Now.
Our head of sales at the time,who had also never been CEO and
(11:42):
he had only been at the companyfor just over a year, he was
like I'll be the CEO.
So he took the job and fastforward.
You know, a couple of years Iwas giving a TED talk and flying
back and on what plain Wi-Fi.
I was like I wonder what is theactual role of a CEO?
And I Googled it and I startedbuilding a bulleted list and as
(12:03):
I was typing it out, I realizedI was doing the job.
So I went back to him and youknow we had a conversation.
We took it to the board.
It was a unanimous vote to bringme in as CEO with me because in
(12:29):
a way, I was my own biggestobstacle.
And the minute I was able tochange my mindset and believe
that I can do it and actuallywith the help of a few of my
mentors right, they helped meactually visualize the they were
like, okay, imagine you're theCEO walking into the office,
like what would you do or whatwould you say, right, and it and
it, it made it, it made it morereal, yeah.
And so I always just rememberthis story that I can be my own
(12:50):
biggest Debbie Downer.
And founders can be not justfounders really, but sometimes
we can be really tough onourselves and kind of unkind.
So I try to remember that as Iembark on new adventures.
Speaker 1 (13:05):
You know, I still relate to that.
I think that you know, for meit's about am I doing my best,
what else can I do, what elseshould I do, you know, and and
so it's never enough in a sense.
Yeah, yeah, west on yesterday'ssuccess.
Well, what about the rest of mylife?
Speaker 2 (13:24):
Yeah, I think about that a lot because I'm starting
a new venture fund and I'm soexcited about it, like I really
believe in the, in the, in themission that we're on to bring,
build these, basically makehuman centric AI the gold
standard for building AIcompanies.
But it's a new endeavor and youknow I'm raising money for the
(13:44):
fund and some investors say yes.
And you know I'm raising moneyfor the fund and some investors
say yes and you know, like ReidHoffman, but some say no.
And man, it's tough, you know,the minute somebody says no, it
just like this conversation inmy head starts like oh yeah, of
course, like you're never goingto do this, you can't do this,
you shouldn't do this.
Speaker 1 (14:05):
I think it's an important mission.
Let's talk more about that.
So, human-centric AI I think Iknow what it means, but I want
to hear it.
Speaker 2 (14:15):
Yeah, well, so we're in this unprecedented time of AI
innovation, and we all, I guess, recognize that AI is offering
or presenting this massiveeconomic opportunity.
But what I also and it's an andright it's offering this massive
economic opportunity and thepotential to tackle some of
(14:35):
humanity's biggest challenges.
And so that's the intersectionthat I'm really focused on, like
, how can we back AI startupsthat are building AI that's in
service of humanity, that'shelping augment our abilities,
not replace us, not take overthe world, right, and so for us,
that means AI that's good foryou, good for the planet, is
(14:57):
ethical.
We're very interested in howcan we harness AI for increased
health span, for health andwellness and democratizing
access to health, fordemocratizing access to
education as I said, I come froma part of the world where not
everybody has access to theeducation I had, but I think AI
can really change that and, ofcourse, sustainable living how
(15:20):
can we use AI to reimagine foodsystems, to mitigate climate
events, to build AI governanceand responsible AI?
Yeah, so I believe you can.
You know you can do good and dowell, and that's what our fund
(15:40):
is focused on.
Speaker 1 (15:41):
I love that.
What do you say to the peoplethat are afraid of AI, that are
afraid AI is going to take overand is going to run our lives
and take us into oblivion?
Speaker 2 (15:53):
You know I like to say that I am an optimistic
pragmatist.
So I do recognize I'm not oneof these people who just doesn't
see the downsides of AI.
I do think it is dangerous andwe've already seen, like you
know, implications of AIhallucination and disinformation
and deep fakes, even in thiselection cycle in the United
States.
There's definitely nefarioususes of AI and but we choose to
(16:22):
build these AI tools don't justhappen.
There are humans, pioneers ofAI, and we try to highlight some
(16:44):
of the amazing use cases andpotential.
But also we talk very openlyabout the dangers of AI and how
do you guard against them.
As a consumer, what should you?
Well, both as a consumer, butalso maybe as a business owner
who's bringing in thesetechnologies, what questions
should you be asking?
If you're going to use a newtool, how do you poke holes at
it to make sure that it's thatit's safe for our kids?
(17:07):
You know, as a parent, like,how do I make sure my kids are
both ai literate but are do areusing it safely?
So there's there's so many,there's so many questions, yeah,
to be asking.
Speaker 1 (17:18):
Yeah so let's talk about the companies, your
portfolio companies.
Of those companies, tell us acouple that you're super excited
about, that are offeringsomething that most of us maybe
haven't heard of.
Speaker 2 (17:33):
Oh, let me see, it's hard to you know your portfolio
companies are like your kids, soyou don't have favorites, yeah.
But I'll highlight a few.
One is called Happy Pillar andthey do mental.
They use conversational AI formental health support for
families.
So imagine it's basically afive minute play therapy session
(17:55):
between a parent and a kid andyour phone is sitting there
listening into the conversationand then coaching the parent on
how to praise their kids, how tobe a better listener.
Sometimes a lot of us parentsare distracted when our kids are
like.
My son always calls me out onthat.
He's like mom, you're not evenlistening, yeah, you're texting
or you're not paying attention,you're not present.
(18:18):
And so the app will kind ofgive feedback to the parents so
that they are, yeah, thatthey're more present and and and
yeah, more health, like a morehealthy relationship with their
kids.
So that's one.
I love what they're doing.
They're again democratizingaccess to mental healthcare,
which not everybody has accessto an amazing clinician or a
(18:40):
play therapist and whatnot.
So I love what they're doing.
Another one is called SynthPop,also in the healthcare space,
but they're like in the backoffice of healthcare operations,
so they have voice AI agentsand the agent is actually the
(19:01):
CEO's voice.
So they trained a clone thatcloned his voice, basically, and
this AI agent will call, likeBlue Cross, blue Shield, to
figure out what kind ofinsurance you're eligible for as
a patient, and it's allautomated.
So they're kind of reallyincreasing the efficiency of
these healthcare practices andhospitals, so I'm excited about
(19:24):
that too.
Speaker 1 (19:25):
I love it.
What about looking ahead?
What kinds of things do youthink AI is going to help us do
that we can't even imagine atthis very moment.
I see you as looking into thecrystal ball that none of us
have.
Speaker 2 (19:42):
I really do think of AI as an intelligence co-partner
or a thought partner, and we'vealready seen that with a lot of
the chatbots.
But it's going to be morepowerful when we move from
chatbots to agents, so agentsthat can do stuff on your behalf
, like imagine if I can delegateto my agent to, like, make a
(20:04):
medical appointment for me andmy family, or you know right
right?
Speaker 1 (20:09):
Yes, go to the DMV for me, cause it's so slow.
Speaker 2 (20:13):
Exactly and I think we'll get to that fairly soon
Like this idea of partneringwith a number of AI agents.
I don't think it's.
I think it's going to be a teamof AI agents that can act on
your behalf, and I think that atthe consumer level, that can be
quite powerful, but also at theenterprise level, that's going
to be powerful as well.
Speaker 1 (20:34):
Amazing, amazing, amazing.
All right, so Rana favoritebook.
Speaker 2 (20:39):
Oh, Atomic Habits.
Speaker 1 (20:40):
Atomic Habits is a good one.
Yeah, do you do habit?
Speaker 2 (20:42):
stacking.
Oh, atomic Habits, atomicHabits is a good one.
Speaker 1 (20:43):
Yeah, do you do habit stacking.
Speaker 2 (20:45):
We do.
I say we because my son and Ilove this book.
He's 15 and we've read ittogether.
We've gifted it to many, manypeople.
I think the biggest takeawayactually I have from this book
is your environment reallymatters, right, Like if you, if
we used to have cookies in ourkitchen, kind of you know island
just hanging there, and now wehave like healthier, healthier
(21:09):
fruits, you know, healthiersnacks.
So um, yeah, so anyway, I thinka lot about what environment and
what systems do you put inplace that are conducive to
building and keeping healthyhabits?
Speaker 1 (21:23):
Love it.
Um, who is one person who's hada big impact on you, and how?
Speaker 2 (21:32):
I think it's my mom.
Honestly, she was one of thefirst computer programmers in
the Middle East, in Cairo.
Actually, that's how she met mydad, because he taught her
COBOL, which is this obsoleteprogramming language, and she
was a working woman.
You know most of her career andbut I also.
(21:55):
She always told us I have twoyounger sisters and she really
prioritized our education andshe always said you guys can,
you know, you girls can doanything you want.
And she really like solidifiedthat message in our brains and
with unconditional love and Itry to always remember that as I
parent my kids.
Speaker 1 (22:17):
Yeah, love it.
What advice would you give toan AI entrepreneur starting up
the first AI company?
Ooh.
Speaker 2 (22:29):
There's like can I do two?
Speaker 1 (22:33):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (22:35):
One is very pragmatic Make sure you have a
competitive moat and think a fewsteps ahead.
Right, you don't want to buildsomething that ChatGPT or OpenAI
is going to release, you know,next year.
Like you want to.
Like, look ahead and make sureyou have this competitive mode.
Often it's in your data, soreally invest in having a unique
data set that you can accessand then just generally like as
(22:56):
a founder, it's going to be anemotional roller coaster.
So invest, invest in yourself-care and and kind of
believe in yourself.
Like, don't listen to thatDebbie Downer voice that that I
have, that's in your head.
Speaker 1 (23:12):
I love it.
I love it.
And, lastly and mostimportantly, if somebody wants
to find you to invest in yournew venture, tell us how they
should look for you.
Speaker 2 (23:23):
Oh, I love that.
Well, email me at rana at bluetulip dot VC.
But also I am available onsocial media.
I try to get back to people onLinkedIn and other platforms and
DMs, but also subscribe to mypodcast, pioneers of AI, and let
me know who you'd want me tointerview.
And also I'm very open tofeedback.
Speaker 1 (23:44):
Love it, love it, love it.
Rana, thank you so much forbeing with us.
It was a pleasure speaking withyou and I know that many people
will learn much from this show.
You can follow the Heart ofBusiness podcast wherever you
get your podcasts.
Also, please remember that yourreviews have a real impact on
the podcast visibility, so ifyou enjoyed today's episode,
(24:13):
please give us a review.
Thank you for watching and havea wonderful day.
Welcome to the Heart of Business podcast sponsored by
International FacilitatorsOrganization.
I'm your host, Mo Fatalbab.
Today, our guest is RanaIqal-Yubi, PhD and co-founder
and general partner at BlueTipVentures.
Welcome, Rana.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Thank you for having me Mo Good to see you again.
Speaker 1 (00:29):
Great to see you and great to have you with us.
I've been wanting to tell yourstory from the day we met.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
I'm glad we're doing it.
I'm excited.
Speaker 1 (00:38):
Thank you.
So I'd love to start with yourcareer journey.
You're a serial entrepreneur.
You've had some great successes.
Maybe tell us a bit about thatso the audience can get to know
you professionally a little bit.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
Yeah, well, we share one thing we're both
Egyptian-American.
I grew up in Egypt and aroundthe Middle East, studied
computer science as anundergraduate, did my PhD at
Cambridge University and I wasreally like taking the academic
track that was the vision or thegoal really Ended up at MIT as
a postdoc and caught theentrepreneurial bug.
(01:12):
So within a couple of years atMIT, I started my company,
affectiva.
We were on this mission tobuild artificial emotional
intelligence like basicallybuilding emotion AI, getting our
computers to recognize ouremotional states and there's a
whole range of applications,everything from helping autistic
kids to making our cars safer.
(01:32):
Anyway, I ended up selling thecompany three years ago now,
which was just crazy.
It feels in a way, it feelslike yesterday, but it also
feels like it's been a long time, and I've been spending my time
investing in AI startups andhelping founders on their
journeys you know, building AIcompanies.
Speaker 1 (01:52):
Amazing, amazing.
So what gave you theinspiration to be an
entrepreneur in the first place?
Speaker 2 (01:59):
You know, honestly, it was not at all on my radar.
I, you know, I grew up in afamily where, you know, nobody
in my family is an entrepreneur,so it wasn't really at all
something I thought about when Igot to MIT.
I remember this one meeting inDecember of 2008.
We were getting so muchinterest in the technology.
(02:21):
Like, basically, I was at theMIT Media Lab and we had like a
lot of the Fortune 500s weresponsors of the lab and twice a
year they would come to this bigevent and we would show the
technology.
It was demo or die.
You had to like show the actualtechnology in action.
And after that they kind ofwanted to use and buy the
technology.
(02:42):
And so this MIT professor Iworked with Professor Rosalind
Picard and myself we scheduled ameeting with the media lab
director at the time at MIT andwe were like we need some more
PhD students because all thesecompanies want our technology.
And he sat back and he was likethat is not a research
challenge, that's acommercialization opportunity.
(03:03):
You guys ought to start acompany.
And my knee-jerk reaction waswait a second, I'm about to
apply to become faculty at MIT.
What are you talking about?
But then I thought about it andfor me it was this amazing
opportunity to bring something Icare deeply about and scale it
to the rest of the world.
And yeah, that was the impetusfor spinning out of MIT and kind
(03:25):
of leaving my academic hatbehind and becoming a CEO.
And it wasn't easy, you know itwas.
It was not an easy journey, forsure.
Speaker 1 (03:32):
But you raised money or did you bootstrap it?
Tell us how you actually gotstarted.
Speaker 2 (03:38):
Yeah, roz and I put a little bit of our personal
money in, but we basically wereventure backed.
At some point we had KleinerPerkins and Mary Meeker was on
our board.
But can I share a story?
Okay, so our very first, likevery early on, we were being you
know, my background is I'm acomputer scientist, right, and
(03:59):
so this was my first foray intobusiness.
And one of the investors whowas courting us sent us an email
like just a one-liner, and hesaid send me your BS.
And I literally sat there and Iwas like I have no idea what
he's talking about.
The only BS I know you can'tpackage in an email.
And so we went to our board ofadvisors MIT is really good with
(04:21):
that Like they assign you aboard of, like, serial
entrepreneurs and like reallyyou know, domain experts.
And I was like what the heck isa BS?
And it's, of course, a balancesheet.
But that was the, that was thelearning curve I was on.
Speaker 1 (04:37):
Beautiful, beautiful.
And then you said it wassomething you deeply cared about
.
So what you deeply cared about,was it the technology or was it
the audiences that you helped?
You named people withdisabilities and something else.
Speaker 2 (04:50):
Yeah, the automotive industry.
Well, this is still true today,which is kind of wild.
When we first started in thisspace.
A lot of the emphasis ontechnology, and AI in particular
, is on what I call the IQ ofthe technology, the cognitive
intelligence, like how smart itis, right, but nobody's really
(05:10):
thinking about the emotional andsocial abilities of these
technologies, which is soimportant because we're you know
, we're using them as AI coachesand AI friends and you know
we're deferring to a lot ofdecision-making to these tools,
but we're not thinking about,we're not taking a human
centered approach to think aboutit.
So my vision is marrying IQ andEQ and AI, like bringing
(05:32):
emotional intelligence to AI.
So that's kind of one piece ofit and I'm still very passionate
about that.
But the audiences to your pointtoo, we did, we still.
You know there's a companywe're partnered with called
Brainpower and they focus onbringing this technology to
individuals on the autismspectrum.
There's a lot of mental healthuse cases of this technology.
(05:55):
I'm on a board of a companycalled Vedera Health and they
have this video app and throughan interview with a person, they
can detect telltale signs ofdepression, anxiety, even
suicidal intent, and then, ofcourse, the automotive use case.
So if you're driving a car andyou're distracted while driving
or you're kind of falling asleepbecause you're jet lagged, the
(06:18):
car can detect that andintervene.
So lots of applications.
Speaker 1 (06:24):
That is amazing.
So you sold the first companyand now you are invested in 50
different AI startups.
Is that correct?
Speaker 2 (06:32):
That is correct.
So when I exited Affectiva andit was hard, you know a lot of
my personal identity was tied tothe company.
So, honestly, the first, I'dsay, eight months were were kind
of I was going through anidentity crisis like who I if
I'm not the CEO of Affectiva,but I'm very passionate about
(06:54):
innovation in the AI space, andthis was 20, you know, 2021,
2022.
So it was right when ChatGPTlaunched and it sparked this.
I've been doing AI for many,many years but obviously this
was like a kind of a tippingpoint.
So, yeah, I was investing inall these AI companies,
supporting these AI founders ontheir journeys.
(07:16):
A lot of them are first timefounders.
Many of them are spinning outof academia, like I did, and so
bringing empathy yeah, empathyand shared it.
I mean, we're both members ofthe YPO, like Young Presidents
Organization, and you knowyou're taught never to give
advice but to share yourexperience, which I found to be
(07:39):
valuable.
Speaker 1 (07:40):
Yeah, well, let's talk about that for a minute.
So clearly you have joined aforum that we also know is a
peer group, and I'm wondering ifyou can just tell us a bit
about how it has benefited you.
Speaker 2 (07:53):
Oh my God.
Well, my first forum meetingwas April of 2021.
No, april of 2020.
That was COVID year.
Yeah, covid had just hit and wewere about to lay off.
We were about to do a layoffand I remember thinking I'm
going to hop on a call with avirtual call because nobody was
(08:15):
meeting in person with all thesestrangers and I'm going to talk
about our layoff, like how'sthat possible?
And, as you know, ypo scalestrust like no other organization
and within the first 30 minutes, we were all talking very
intimately about challenges,professionally and personally,
and I just got a lot of supportthrough, you know, through these
(08:37):
early days, but also through myexit, because some of my other
forum members had gone throughan exit themselves and they were
able to share their experiencesand help me honestly manage my
mental state through it all.
So that was really helpful.
And then, finally, I launched anew YPO chapter last year.
(08:58):
Ypo Boston very much focused ontech innovation in the Boston
area and a lot of like VC backedentrepreneurs.
And just this past week we hadour.
You know, we're a small chapter, we're about 30 people, so we
have only a couple of forums inthe chapter and I was sitting in
our forum meeting and one ofour members who's very new to
(09:19):
IPO and just extremely stressedout and just maxed out in
general and he just he had thissigh of relief and he was like
this is the only space I cantalk about any of this stuff and
he kind of expressed hisgratitude and I was like yes,
this is why I started a newchapter.
We need more people to be in YPO.
Speaker 1 (09:39):
Yeah, yeah, I love that Wonderful.
Go ahead please.
Speaker 2 (09:45):
I was going to ask you because you've been in YPO
for a long, long time and you'vebrought this trust and
vulnerability to a lot of spacesin YPO as well, right?
Speaker 1 (09:56):
Well, yeah, I mean, listen, I joined my forum in
1991.
It was an EO forum and we'restill together.
That's amazing, oh my God.
They've just been incrediblepeople and it's been nothing
short of life-changing.
As you know, ypo has been aclient since 1999.
I've been doing forum worksince 1999.
(10:17):
It's been quite quite a journeyand amazing people and lots of
great places.
It's just been, but it's been.
You know, it's food for thesoul more than anything.
I mean it's just gratifying tomeet people in this very
intimate space.
It's a gift.
Yeah, absolutely so.
Knowing the journey of anentrepreneur, I know that it's
(10:41):
not just up and up and meteoricall the way through.
There are lots of pitfalls andchallenges, and so I'd be
curious if you'd be able toshare one or two of your
difficult moments and how youovercame them.
Speaker 2 (10:57):
Oh yeah, well, I remember.
Yeah, there's definitely a lot,but just to but.
But.
But just to highlight a few.
Um, so when we started thecompany, one of our first
investors said you know, youneed to hire a seasoned CEO to,
to, to run the company.
And so my role was CTO and wehired, you know, this guy who
(11:19):
ran the company for a number ofyears and then he decided to
leave.
So the board were like, okay,who's going to be the next CEO?
We think it should be Rana.
It's her technology.
And I remember going back homeand thinking I'm too scared.
I've never been CEO before, Idon't want to fail.
So I came back the next day andtold the board I can't do it
Now.
Our head of sales at the time,who had also never been CEO and
(11:42):
he had only been at the companyfor just over a year, he was
like I'll be the CEO.
So he took the job and fastforward.
You know, a couple of years Iwas giving a TED talk and flying
back and on what plain Wi-Fi.
I was like I wonder what is theactual role of a CEO?
And I Googled it and I startedbuilding a bulleted list and as
(12:03):
I was typing it out, I realizedI was doing the job.
So I went back to him and youknow we had a conversation.
We took it to the board.
It was a unanimous vote to bringme in as CEO with me because in
(12:29):
a way, I was my own biggestobstacle.
And the minute I was able tochange my mindset and believe
that I can do it and actuallywith the help of a few of my
mentors right, they helped meactually visualize the they were
like, okay, imagine you're theCEO walking into the office,
like what would you do or whatwould you say, right, and it and
it, it made it, it made it morereal, yeah.
And so I always just rememberthis story that I can be my own
(12:50):
biggest Debbie Downer.
And founders can be not justfounders really, but sometimes
we can be really tough onourselves and kind of unkind.
So I try to remember that as Iembark on new adventures.
Speaker 1 (13:05):
You know, I still relate to that.
I think that you know, for meit's about am I doing my best,
what else can I do, what elseshould I do, you know, and and
so it's never enough in a sense.
Yeah, yeah, west on yesterday'ssuccess.
Well, what about the rest of mylife?
Speaker 2 (13:24):
Yeah, I think about that a lot because I'm starting
a new venture fund and I'm soexcited about it, like I really
believe in the, in the, in themission that we're on to bring,
build these, basically makehuman centric AI the gold
standard for building AIcompanies.
But it's a new endeavor and youknow I'm raising money for the
(13:44):
fund and some investors say yes.
And you know I'm raising moneyfor the fund and some investors
say yes and you know, like ReidHoffman, but some say no.
And man, it's tough, you know,the minute somebody says no, it
just like this conversation inmy head starts like oh yeah, of
course, like you're never goingto do this, you can't do this,
you shouldn't do this.
Speaker 1 (14:05):
I think it's an important mission.
Let's talk more about that.
So, human-centric AI I think Iknow what it means, but I want
to hear it.
Speaker 2 (14:15):
Yeah, well, so we're in this unprecedented time of AI
innovation, and we all, I guess, recognize that AI is offering
or presenting this massiveeconomic opportunity.
But what I also and it's an andright it's offering this massive
economic opportunity and thepotential to tackle some of
(14:35):
humanity's biggest challenges.
And so that's the intersectionthat I'm really focused on, like
, how can we back AI startupsthat are building AI that's in
service of humanity, that'shelping augment our abilities,
not replace us, not take overthe world, right, and so for us,
that means AI that's good foryou, good for the planet, is
(14:57):
ethical.
We're very interested in howcan we harness AI for increased
health span, for health andwellness and democratizing
access to health, fordemocratizing access to
education as I said, I come froma part of the world where not
everybody has access to theeducation I had, but I think AI
can really change that and, ofcourse, sustainable living how
(15:20):
can we use AI to reimagine foodsystems, to mitigate climate
events, to build AI governanceand responsible AI?
Yeah, so I believe you can.
You know you can do good and dowell, and that's what our fund
(15:40):
is focused on.
Speaker 1 (15:41):
I love that.
What do you say to the peoplethat are afraid of AI, that are
afraid AI is going to take overand is going to run our lives
and take us into oblivion?
Speaker 2 (15:53):
You know I like to say that I am an optimistic
pragmatist.
So I do recognize I'm not oneof these people who just doesn't
see the downsides of AI.
I do think it is dangerous andwe've already seen, like you
know, implications of AIhallucination and disinformation
and deep fakes, even in thiselection cycle in the United
States.
There's definitely nefarioususes of AI and but we choose to
(16:22):
build these AI tools don't justhappen.
There are humans, pioneers ofAI, and we try to highlight some
(16:44):
of the amazing use cases andpotential.
But also we talk very openlyabout the dangers of AI and how
do you guard against them.
As a consumer, what should you?
Well, both as a consumer, butalso maybe as a business owner
who's bringing in thesetechnologies, what questions
should you be asking?
If you're going to use a newtool, how do you poke holes at
it to make sure that it's thatit's safe for our kids?
(17:07):
You know, as a parent, like,how do I make sure my kids are
both ai literate but are do areusing it safely?
So there's there's so many,there's so many questions, yeah,
to be asking.
Speaker 1 (17:18):
Yeah so let's talk about the companies, your
portfolio companies.
Of those companies, tell us acouple that you're super excited
about, that are offeringsomething that most of us maybe
haven't heard of.
Speaker 2 (17:33):
Oh, let me see, it's hard to you know your portfolio
companies are like your kids, soyou don't have favorites, yeah.
But I'll highlight a few.
One is called Happy Pillar andthey do mental.
They use conversational AI formental health support for
families.
So imagine it's basically afive minute play therapy session
(17:55):
between a parent and a kid andyour phone is sitting there
listening into the conversationand then coaching the parent on
how to praise their kids, how tobe a better listener.
Sometimes a lot of us parentsare distracted when our kids are
like.
My son always calls me out onthat.
He's like mom, you're not evenlistening, yeah, you're texting
or you're not paying attention,you're not present.
(18:18):
And so the app will kind ofgive feedback to the parents so
that they are, yeah, thatthey're more present and and and
yeah, more health, like a morehealthy relationship with their
kids.
So that's one.
I love what they're doing.
They're again democratizingaccess to mental healthcare,
which not everybody has accessto an amazing clinician or a
(18:40):
play therapist and whatnot.
So I love what they're doing.
Another one is called SynthPop,also in the healthcare space,
but they're like in the backoffice of healthcare operations,
so they have voice AI agentsand the agent is actually the
(19:01):
CEO's voice.
So they trained a clone thatcloned his voice, basically, and
this AI agent will call, likeBlue Cross, blue Shield, to
figure out what kind ofinsurance you're eligible for as
a patient, and it's allautomated.
So they're kind of reallyincreasing the efficiency of
these healthcare practices andhospitals, so I'm excited about
(19:24):
that too.
Speaker 1 (19:25):
I love it.
What about looking ahead?
What kinds of things do youthink AI is going to help us do
that we can't even imagine atthis very moment.
I see you as looking into thecrystal ball that none of us
have.
Speaker 2 (19:42):
I really do think of AI as an intelligence co-partner
or a thought partner, and we'vealready seen that with a lot of
the chatbots.
But it's going to be morepowerful when we move from
chatbots to agents, so agentsthat can do stuff on your behalf
, like imagine if I can delegateto my agent to, like, make a
(20:04):
medical appointment for me andmy family, or you know right
right?
Speaker 1 (20:09):
Yes, go to the DMV for me, cause it's so slow.
Speaker 2 (20:13):
Exactly and I think we'll get to that fairly soon
Like this idea of partneringwith a number of AI agents.
I don't think it's.
I think it's going to be a teamof AI agents that can act on
your behalf, and I think that atthe consumer level, that can be
quite powerful, but also at theenterprise level, that's going
to be powerful as well.
Speaker 1 (20:34):
Amazing, amazing, amazing.
All right, so Rana favoritebook.
Speaker 2 (20:39):
Oh, Atomic Habits.
Speaker 1 (20:40):
Atomic Habits is a good one.
Yeah, do you do habit?
Speaker 2 (20:42):
stacking.
Oh, atomic Habits, atomicHabits is a good one.
Speaker 1 (20:43):
Yeah, do you do habit stacking.
Speaker 2 (20:45):
We do.
I say we because my son and Ilove this book.
He's 15 and we've read ittogether.
We've gifted it to many, manypeople.
I think the biggest takeawayactually I have from this book
is your environment reallymatters, right, Like if you, if
we used to have cookies in ourkitchen, kind of you know island
just hanging there, and now wehave like healthier, healthier
(21:09):
fruits, you know, healthiersnacks.
So um, yeah, so anyway, I thinka lot about what environment and
what systems do you put inplace that are conducive to
building and keeping healthyhabits?
Speaker 1 (21:23):
Love it.
Um, who is one person who's hada big impact on you, and how?
Speaker 2 (21:32):
I think it's my mom.
Honestly, she was one of thefirst computer programmers in
the Middle East, in Cairo.
Actually, that's how she met mydad, because he taught her
COBOL, which is this obsoleteprogramming language, and she
was a working woman.
You know most of her career andbut I also.
(21:55):
She always told us I have twoyounger sisters and she really
prioritized our education andshe always said you guys can,
you know, you girls can doanything you want.
And she really like solidifiedthat message in our brains and
with unconditional love and Itry to always remember that as I
parent my kids.
Speaker 1 (22:17):
Yeah, love it.
What advice would you give toan AI entrepreneur starting up
the first AI company?
Ooh.
Speaker 2 (22:29):
There's like can I do two?
Speaker 1 (22:33):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (22:35):
One is very pragmatic Make sure you have a
competitive moat and think a fewsteps ahead.
Right, you don't want to buildsomething that ChatGPT or OpenAI
is going to release, you know,next year.
Like you want to.
Like, look ahead and make sureyou have this competitive mode.
Often it's in your data, soreally invest in having a unique
data set that you can accessand then just generally like as
(22:56):
a founder, it's going to be anemotional roller coaster.
So invest, invest in yourself-care and and kind of
believe in yourself.
Like, don't listen to thatDebbie Downer voice that that I
have, that's in your head.
Speaker 1 (23:12):
I love it.
I love it.
And, lastly and mostimportantly, if somebody wants
to find you to invest in yournew venture, tell us how they
should look for you.
Speaker 2 (23:23):
Oh, I love that.
Well, email me at rana at bluetulip dot VC.
But also I am available onsocial media.
I try to get back to people onLinkedIn and other platforms and
DMs, but also subscribe to mypodcast, pioneers of AI, and let
me know who you'd want me tointerview.
And also I'm very open tofeedback.
Speaker 1 (23:44):
Love it, love it, love it.
Rana, thank you so much forbeing with us.
It was a pleasure speaking withyou and I know that many people
will learn much from this show.
You can follow the Heart ofBusiness podcast wherever you
get your podcasts.
Also, please remember that yourreviews have a real impact on
the podcast visibility, so ifyou enjoyed today's episode,
(24:13):
please give us a review.
Thank you for watching and havea wonderful day.
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