December 6, 2025 • 29 mins
What if your next greenlight isn’t a yes from a gatekeeper but the momentum you create yourself? We sit with director Roel Reine for a fast, candid conversation about turning resourcefulness into results—mortgaging a home to finance a first feature, cutting a trailer that unlocks a studio deal, and shooting a $20k desert thriller to prove he could lead Hollywood casts. The throughline is clear: ownership beats permission, and speed beats perfection.
Roel breaks down a craft mindset that audiences feel immediately: the three-scene first act. Define the hero and goal, reveal the opposition, establish the genre, then move. He explains why character development belongs in act two, where choices under pressure reveal depth without stalling pace. We also explore his on-set philosophy of directing while operating the camera—staying beside the lens to shape performance, block with intent, and capture multi-camera coverage that saves time and preserves spontaneity.
The business playbook gets just as tactical. When the market slowed, Roel asked sales agents what would sell without stars and delivered a practical-effects bear thriller that’s now selling worldwide. He shares why building a slate matters—pursue a few big packages while making smaller, fast projects that keep you sharp and liquid. We dig into AI as a creative multiplier, including a fully AI-assisted animated feature for a European theme park, and the global mindset that opens doors far beyond Hollywood.
You’ll leave with actionable tips: stabilize your shots, use a slider, collect “trailer shots” daily, color consistently with LUTs, and consider making a lean feature instead of a short. If you’re ready to trade waiting for working, press play and join us. Subscribe, share this episode with a filmmaker friend, and leave a review to help more creators find the show. What bold move will you make next?
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_01 (00:04):
Welcome to the Heart of Show Business.
I am your host, Alexia Melocchi.
I believe in great storytellingand that every successful artist
has a deep desire to expresssomething from the heart to
create a ripple effect in oursociety.
Emotion and entertainment areclosely tied together.
(00:24):
My guests and I want to give youinsider access to how the film,
television, and music industryworks.
We will cover dreams come true,the roadlines travel, journey
beginnings, and a lot of insightand inspiration in between.
I am a successful film andtelevision entrepreneur who came
to America as a teenager topursue my show business dreams.
(00:47):
Are you ready for someunfiltered real talk with
entertainment visionaries fromall over the world?
Then let's roll sound andaction.
So, hello everyone to all mylisteners of the Heart of Show
Business podcast.
(01:07):
I am coming on here all frazzledand uh yeah, all frazzled, which
I usually am not, um, recordingright a few days before the
famous American film market,which is one of the biggest film
conventions in the world.
It takes place in Los Angelesthis way.
And I just happen to have here,just because we're talking about
(01:31):
independent film and makingthings happen no matter what, if
you got a great story to tell,with the wonderful Roel René,
that is the way I like to callhim.
He is a very, very prolificEuropean director who has done
so many films.
You're gonna have to look him upon IMTB.
(01:51):
And um, because I'm not gonnaname them all, that's just not
gonna happen.
But he, I love the way that hedirects.
Uh, he's done films for Netflix,he's done series like the George
Washington series, he's done theScorpion King to it, to name a
few.
He just shot a film in Maltawith Aaron Eckhart.
(02:11):
He does it all.
And I love also that he's hisown cinematographer.
So we'll talk about that andwe'll talk about also the way
that he approaches independentfilm and the new way that
directors, not that's really nota new way, but I think it's the
best way where directors getattached to projects that they
really believe in and theybecome a little bit more
(02:33):
proactive in the process.
Because if we if we give thecontrol away to the powers that
be, then nothing ever happens,right, Roel?
SPEAKER_00 (02:41):
Yes, that's true.
That's true.
You have to you're your own,you're your own producer, you
know, and uh you need to movethings forward, otherwise you're
gonna be waiting forever.
SPEAKER_01 (02:52):
Yeah, yeah.
It's so great to have you here.
And I just wanted to go back alittle bit into your origin
story because, of course, whatwhat got you the bug of wanting
to be a director?
Why did you choose to be adirector?
Of course, you're also aproducer, but what it where is
the focus on that?
Tell me a little bit about that.
SPEAKER_00 (03:12):
Yeah, no, I was 11 when I saw Blade Runner, and uh
I then understood that you kindof as a director build worlds,
and so I wanted to build worldsand be director.
So from that moment on,everything that I did was was
learning myself, uh, directingstuff when I was very young, and
(03:33):
then get myself bluffing intothe industry, uh, telling that I
could do it, and then I had toprove to do it.
So, and I was very young doingall these things, and I was 22
when I was already startingdirecting TV series in the
Netherlands.
I'm from the Netherlands, and Iwas 26, I had my own production
company, and I was 28 directingmy first feature, but was then
(03:54):
picked up by Warner Brothers inEurope, Alliance Gate in
America, and so that was kind ofmy ticket into uh into
Hollywood.
SPEAKER_01 (04:03):
Wow, and how did you convince them?
I want to know becauseobviously, like you said, how
how does one get that firstshot?
Because you know, was theresomething specific that you did
in the Netherlands?
SPEAKER_00 (04:16):
What I did, I started directing TV, so I did
uh TV movies and and TV actionseries, but also did a lot of
reality shows and pop concertsand multicamera.
But my first movie, I convincedeverybody to do it because I put
a second mortgage on my home andwas one of the financiers.
And so I went to somemillionaire friends of mine and
(04:39):
said, Hey, can you put 100,000uh euros into this movie?
And because I did 50,000 eurosand uh and I believe in this.
So that's kind of how I did myfirst movie.
Um, when I came to America, myfirst American movie was even
lower budget, it was like nobudget, and uh we shot with like
(04:59):
four people, four actors in thedesert, and um, and but I
bluffed myself, you know.
I was because I remember comingto Hollywood and I had a lot of
meetings, and I had two movieson my belt, and I had a golden
calf for my first movie, what iskind of the Dutch Oscar for best
director.
Um, the youngest ever gettingthis thing, this thing.
So it it opened the door, butthen I remember in Hollywood was
(05:23):
like, Yeah, but can you workwith American stars?
And we don't know, you're veryEuropean.
So I remember at that time thatI was like, uh screw this.
Um, so we went and made ourmovie for like$20,000 for actors
in the desert, and then I wasannouncing it.
So I announced a rule of Reneeis directing in a Hollywood
movie, a rule of Renee iscasting, a rule and A is raped,
(05:45):
rule Rena's in post-production,and then I was an American
director, even it was a$20,000for Actors in the Desert movie.
And then the first thing we did,we cut a trailer, and with the
trailer, it was really cool.
We went to I went to producers,and then I got a producer giving
me$300,000 to do a LanceHendrickson movie, and um, so we
(06:10):
did that.
We were shooting two monthslater.
Um, and then from that I cut atrailer, and I got uh my first
Sony studio movie for like mynine million dollars.
So we made this movie calledPistol Whipped, and uh and then
I there it goes, you know.
From that moment I didn't stopdirecting.
SPEAKER_01 (06:28):
Wow, what a great story! And you know what?
It really goes to show what Ialways say to everybody, which
is put your money where yourmouth is.
I mean, if you want to be ableto tell somebody to invest in
you, you have to first invest inyourself as well, because nobody
else will do it for you.
And you have to show that youbelieve in yourself enough and
you can prove that you can dothat for a price, and and that's
(06:52):
the way to do it.
You know, obviously, ideally, itwould be great if everybody
writes us checks, and but weknow that's not the case.
But I love, I love how you soldyourself and you know, and you
went out to your friends andeverything.
What I also know, and by theway, little well, we're not
gonna say too much about it, butRoyelle and I are gonna be
working together on a film.
We're not gonna say which one itis, but um, and I'm so happy and
(07:14):
impressed because another thingthat I did say, because like you
said, with the trailer that youshot, he showed up at the
meeting with um a fullpresentation of how he sees
directing the film.
And what thing that obviouslywas uh a standout thing is that
he uh he said something about umscripts and uh the speed of uh
(07:36):
getting us to the juice of thestory.
Do you want to elaborate onthat?
Because I thought that wasbrilliant.
SPEAKER_00 (07:44):
Tell me more because I I told so many things.
What was exactly what you mean?
SPEAKER_01 (07:49):
You were saying that you know, certain like powers
that be, you know, are uhtelling you or showing you
script where it takes like 30pages to get to the main point
of the story where the hero goeson a journey and you're like,
why do we need to wait 20minutes to do that?
Can we do that?
SPEAKER_00 (08:05):
Yes, yeah, yes, yeah, because you know, I I
remember that I was doing a lotof studio movies like 10, 15
years ago.
And I remember we run studio,they love first acts, you know,
like a first act like Sid Fieldtells us we need like 25 pages
to the first act.
But for me, you know, you youand when you make a genre movie
(08:27):
or when you make a commercialproduct, you know, you need to
have a first act where there'sonly three scenes, right?
There's like one scene thattells you who's your main
character and what is his goalin life.
Second scene is what is theopposition, and what is the
villain, or what is the problem,and the third scene, what is the
genre, you know, from thismovie?
Uh is it action, is it horror,is it thriller?
(08:48):
Uh, and then that's the threescenes.
The the the crew of the audienceknows now where they're into,
and then in the second act, youstart building the character
because you're gonna reveal thecharacter's arc in how he
interact with the problem or hisjourney in the second act.
So, like a 20-30-page first act,it's just boring and it doesn't
(09:11):
work.
And when you're in the editing,you're gonna produce studios,
they always ask me, well, weneed to be quicker to the uh to
the action, we need to goquicker to the the story
evolving.
Yeah, but we should have shotthe character stuff then in the
second act and not in the firstact.
So, yes.
Um, I believe in the three-scenefirst act structure, and then
(09:33):
the second act is where youdevelop the character.
SPEAKER_01 (09:36):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that is so true.
And I also love a little bit,little birdie told me that you
like to do your owncinematography.
Are you a control freak, or isit just a passion of yours?
SPEAKER_00 (09:48):
No, for me, it's like I never understood the
principle of directing a moviewhile you sit in another room
watching television.
I don't understand thatprinciple.
It's like, what is that allabout?
You're sitting in another roomand you're sitting on the on
your ass watching a TV, uh, andyou see the I don't understand
that.
So for me, from day on, I wasalways on set next to the camera
(10:12):
and um talking with the actors,feeling the energy of the
actors, and then I started toannoy, I was very annoyed by the
slow speed of a cinematographersthat I worked with at the time
in the beginning of my career,and um and it and it holed up,
you know, it was not progressiveenough, and a lot of hesitations
and too many lights, you know.
(10:33):
So, and then I realized at thetime I was doing this TV movie
in the Netherlands.
I was like, oh, wait a minute,I'm also the producer of this
movie, so maybe I should justfire the cinematographer and
take over.
So that's what I did, and thenfrom that moment on, I felt like
for me, directing and thecinematography is one thing, you
know, choosing a location,blocking an actor, or even
(10:56):
developing the script andchoosing the location and then
blocking the scene with thecamera, you know, the camera is
the third character in thescene, so it becomes part of one
uh tool, one thing.
So if the camera is the brush,you know, and you don't ask the
painter to have somebody elsehold the brush, you know.
So I'm holding the brush topaint the painting.
(11:18):
But what later, when I startdoing bigger things like uh like
uh uh big movies, I startedhiring uh or a second
cinematographers who wereoperators on the two on a third
or the fourth camera, and thenthey kind of co-DP, so they were
responsible for the lighting umin prep and uh on the set.
(11:38):
And also in some movies, I hadreally strong um gaffers, and I
called them director oflighting, and uh and basically
in the prep I will tell themwhat I want, but during the
shoot I would not talk aboutthem about lighting at all.
You know, I was talking with myoperators and I operate a camera
and I had two other operators, Inormally shoot with three, four
(11:58):
cameras, and then I'm talkingwith the actors, you know,
constantly.
I also remember that studios,studio heads, executives they
were very nervous when theyworked for the first time with
me.
They're always like, but if youdo the cinematography, does the
actor get enough attention?
But when you ask any actor thatworked with me, they will tell
you that they got more attentionfrom me as a director than any
(12:22):
other directors because I'mthere, I'm interacting with them
and I'm constantly communicatingand absorbing their energy and
giving them energy.
And so yeah, that's that's whatI do.
SPEAKER_01 (12:34):
Well, you really sound like like you love what
you're doing, and you know, Ihave to ask you the question
because of course we'renavigating very challenging and
very difficult times when itcomes to financing movies,
producing movies, directingmovies.
Has there been a moment whereyou just want to throw in the
towels and say that's it?
Or is there something in theback of your mind where you go,
(12:54):
I have an unfinished business,there is something that I really
want to do, I want to tell morestories.
Like, where do you stand onthat?
Because I mean, it's kind oflike we'll all get depressed and
then we get excited again.
So, how is that working out foryou, my friend?
SPEAKER_00 (13:08):
Yeah, no, the thing, of course, we I get depressed,
you know.
Uh, when you uh work on a moviefor a long time and then it
doesn't happen, that'sfrustrating.
But the good thing is that I'mworking on many, many projects,
like I it's it's a huge list.
The list is hanging here on mywall.
Kind of this is the list, soit's kind of uh 50 projects, and
(13:32):
um so and in this process, youknow, you need to realize what
is coming, you know.
When when the strikes werestarting to happen, you know, I
knew what that it was coming.
So you are scheduling andplanning in a way that that
keeps me busy, you know.
Uh when AI was coming, I wasplanning and scheduling to learn
(13:54):
it and to use it.
And so I'm now one of the firstones embracing it and doing a
lot of AI projects right now.
So you need to you need toreinvent yourself all the time
because if you're gonna be stuckwith your old ways and you're
waiting for that one project tocome along, it's never gonna
happen, you know.
And that's maybe the reason whyI'm always working, and all and
(14:16):
I'm very lucky in that way.
But I create that luck by beingon top of what the world is
doing, what the world isdemanding, where it's going, and
then adjust and and be willingto do this all over the world,
you know.
If I was stuck in Hollywood,then it would be different.
But like you, you know, we arealso very European-minded.
(14:40):
So we are everywhere, and andthat's how you keep working, and
uh, and I hope to keep workingtill I drop that, you know.
SPEAKER_01 (14:49):
Oh, I love that.
You'll be here for a long time.
And you know what?
I love what you just said, andpeople say to me, like, how can
you be attached to so manyprojects?
You know, do you have thebandwidth?
But the thing is, a I get veryexcited about storytelling and
possibility, number one.
And number two, just IQ.
I think I will be very boredworking on just one single film
(15:11):
day in and day out, because weknow it changes all the time.
You think you are fullyfinanced, and then something
happens and everything fallsapart.
And then what do you do withyourself?
So I like you know, RidleyScott.
I mean, I was like every once ina while I go on on, you know,
Variety Inside or whatever it'scalled, Luminated, and I'm like,
oh, he's got like 60 projects.
And you know, some of them arewith big stars and they still
(15:33):
haven't happened.
And so it makes me feel goodbecause it's like it's Ridley is
stuck sometimes, and it's okayfor you and I to be stuck or
waiting for something special tocome along.
Now, obviously, we want to beahead and we want to know what's
what the market wants and whatthe market needs.
I know you show me you're doingan animated movie which you've
never done with the help of AI.
(15:55):
I don't know if you want to tellme anything about that, because
you know, maybe you don't, butI'm curious.
What are people thinking?
SPEAKER_00 (16:02):
It's still their secret, but but officially, yes.
You know, I always wanted to dolike a big and a Moana kind of
movie.
It was always kind of my bigwish.
Um, I love those movies, but itwas never in the charts, you
know.
I don't think I would ever behired by Pixel to do one of
their movies.
So when AI started to come, likeuh and it became really good.
(16:25):
I went um uh back to Europe anduh pitched this animation movie
for this theme park, and um, andthen we got it, you know.
Um we got the money and we'regoing to make this movie, and
it's like a full animation AImovie, and it's so much fun.
But but for me, also it's it isagain you talked about
(16:45):
opportunities and understandingthe market, you know.
For example, a year ago, um Iwent to the sales agent and I
said to the sales, and this wasin the middle of nothing
happens, right?
And I said to the sales agent,okay, if we do a movie with no
stars, uh no actors, and noquestions asked, I'm just gonna
make this movie.
What kind of money can you giveme?
(17:06):
And I want to be a full partner.
So the sales agent said, okay,$350,000.
Uh that is the max.
And then I told them, I askedthem, so what do you want?
What is the genre?
What do you want?
And they said, we want a moviewhere a bear attacks a town.
I said, okay.
And then six weeks later, we hada script.
We were shooting in Bulgaria abear movie called Savage Hunt,
(17:30):
and uh, we shot with a realbear, and the bear shoots with
physical effects, and uh andthis movie is now on the market,
it's doing really well, it'sselling all over the world.
So it's also kind of daring todo what the market asked for,
you know, instead of me anartistic director wants to tell
this really important story uhthat nobody's really waiting for
(17:51):
to see, you know.
SPEAKER_01 (17:53):
Exactly.
And you know what?
Also, that the technology andeverything has changed so fast.
And I think a lot of the timeswhy many of the big studio
producers sometimes are gettingstuck is exactly in that.
They're getting stuck with thegames.
Oh, you have to have Brad Pittin the film, or nothing is gonna
happen.
And then they're waiting yearsand years, and then they're not
(18:14):
barging on budgets and notbudging on speed of filmmaking.
And I love what you you and Idiscussed because we're like,
okay, how what will it take youto shoot this movie?
It's like I can do it for thismuch, and we can shoot it in
Italy, and we can do this, andyou know, I'll go with my drones
and I'll put together my dronesand my camera gear, and then
we'll go and film like B B-rollstuff like we're doing.
(18:37):
And I love that it was soexciting.
And honestly, I know you'resuper busy, and and obviously,
I'm I'm hoping that the filmthat you and I want to do
together will be somehowhappening sooner than later.
And if you have another movie,of course, we'll wait for you
because I know you shoot fast.
So I'm not too worried.
It's you're not gonna be stuckfor two years on something.
Yeah, so I don't have to waitfor you for two years.
(18:59):
Um, the last movie that you justdid, um, that's when you came
out to me because my Russianbuyers, you know, have bought
it.
I didn't know about it, but Iguess I found out later.
They like sometimes to dobusiness without me.
What can you do?
Um, how is it going?
I mean, do you want to talkabout it?
Are you happy to do that?
SPEAKER_00 (19:17):
No, that's the that's the bear movie.
SPEAKER_01 (19:19):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (19:20):
Uh that's what the Russian buyers did.
I did another movie in between.
So I just finished another moviecalled Love Hunt Hate Kill that
we shot in the desert in PalmSprings.
But there's a lot of things.
SPEAKER_01 (19:31):
That's what you showed me, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (19:32):
Yeah.
And uh so, but also I just cameback from Malta three weeks ago,
and uh I shot another TV seriesthere uh called Battle of the
Beast.
So it's kind of um yeah, youneed to be busy, keep yourself
busy.
And and while I'm doing stillthe big projects, because I'm
attached to some big movies withsome big stars already attached,
(19:55):
but those have well, you youtold it already, what you just
said, you know, they have along.
A long period of time, you needthe second name to attach
because one name is not enough.
You need now two names,sometimes three names, and then
you make an offer, and it takestwo months to get the results,
and then it's a pass, and thenyou have to go make a new offer
to a new actor, and then themarket has changed.
(20:16):
So the stars are not that hotanymore.
There's now different.
So it's like that game.
I play the game.
I have I have like five or sixof these high-end projects, and
uh, but while we wait and playthe game, I'm shooting other
things, you know, and uh and I'mready to shoot another one in
January.
So um, so yes.
SPEAKER_01 (20:36):
Yeah, that's not the perfect title for this episode
is playing the game.
And it's so true.
I went to the whole QA for theFormula One movie with Jerry
Bruckenheimer and uh and BradPitt, and it was very
interesting because even JerryBruckenheimer had to wait two
years to get Formula One toallow them to go and film and
give them their blessing.
And it's Jerry freakingBruckenheimer, and he has to get
(20:59):
the permission for and he'swaiting for two years, and then
of course, they were saying theycalled up Brad Pitt and they're
like, Would you fly to go meetthe people?
And then, of course, Brad Pittshows up, and then magically all
obstacles are lifted, and herethey are, and they can actually
film.
And I love hearing the successstories and everything.
(21:20):
In wrapping up, I is there anytype of mantra, life advice that
you want to give to an emergingdirector, writer, author,
producer who's just startingout.
Is there little words of wisdomthat you want to impart into
them beyond not throwingthemselves down the river?
SPEAKER_00 (21:44):
No, I think that's what I always tell uh starting
filmmakers is that you know,when I started, um, we didn't
have a phone, uh, we didn't havethe technology, didn't have
software on my laptop where Ican make a whole movie or do
visual effects in my own laptop.
And now with AI, it's even morethe sky is the limit.
(22:05):
So there's no excuse for anyemerging filmmaker to start
making a movie tomorrow, youknow, because in the end it
doesn't cost so much, you know.
You have a lot of friends whocan act, you have you you know a
writer or you write yourself,you know.
There's a lot of tools to learnhow to craft it.
Yes, you still need talent, youknow, talent is key.
(22:27):
But if you want to make a movie,you probably already have
talent, otherwise, you wouldnever have that invention.
So going and make it on your ownwith your own tools that you
have, or you borrow a camerafrom a friend and you get a
location that doesn't need apermit because it's somebody's
private property, and thenyou're gonna make a movie, you
(22:48):
know, and you cut it together onyour own editing software in
your laptop.
You can, you know, and that'skind of uh how it should be
done, you know.
There's no reason for you to tryto raise a million bucks or five
million dollars as your firstmovie or even your second movie
because it's not gonna happen.
And also, yes, a lot of peoplemake shorts, you know, and maybe
(23:12):
one in thousands, their shortgets picked up and it becomes a
feature, you know, but it's veryunique and it happens.
But the amount of time that youput in making a 10 or 20 minutes
short, it's the same amount oftime you put in to make a 90
minutes movie.
And the 90 minutes movie you cansell, you know, and you can
(23:32):
become a filmmaker.
And the 20 minutes short willnot sell, and it will go to
festivals, and it's great foryour ego, but it doesn't make
you a continuous filmmaker.
So, um, so and I did that alsowith Love and Hate Kill, the the
movie I shot a half year ago,because I was like, I preaching
(23:53):
this all the time to everybody,so let me do it myself again.
So, in like three weeks or fourweeks, we set this whole movie
up.
We got everything from Amazon.
Uh, really, we orderedeverything from Amazon, and
after the shoot, for real,everything that was still 100%
nice and good, we returned toAmazon, got the money back, and
(24:14):
we made this movie for like$35,000,$36,000, and uh and it
was a lot of a lot of fun, youknow, and it's a real movie, and
now in post-production with thismovie, it's a real movie, and
it's really so there's no moreexcuse.
There's no more excuse to be afilmmaker, you know.
And if you and I believe in the10,000 hour rule, you know, if
(24:37):
you want to become a conceptpianist, you need to play for
10,000 hours piano to becomelike that's that's cooled.
So if you want to become afilmmaker, start making movies,
you know.
And maybe maybe your first two,three movies are terrible, but
you're gonna learn so much.
And then that's that fourthmovie, you're gonna be a genius
(24:58):
and gonna be uh hit the jackpot.
So uh don't stop talking andstart shooting, you know.
SPEAKER_01 (25:06):
Oh, I love that.
What great piece of advice, andI love the Amazon story.
In fact, like little insideinformation.
I'm not gonna name names, butthere is an actor who on a movie
that I know that they couldn'tafford to pay him all the money
that they could.
So he had asked for a lot ofdesigner clothes, you know, to
like from the costume designerbecause it fit.
So basically, what they did isthat they got the clothes and
(25:27):
then he sold them on real toreal, and then he got a bunch of
money for them, and you know, itwas money allotted for the
wardrobe, and then they ended uppaying him uh the extra money,
or he paid himself the extramoney by just saying, just give
me the clothes, I'll keep themand then I'll sell them.
So that's just how they do it,people.
That's called independentfilmmaking.
(25:48):
Uh, this has been such a greatconversation.
I wanted to keep it short andsweet, Royal, but um, it's been
a pleasure having you.
I'm gonna be dropping on theshow notes all the links to all
the films of yours that areavailable on any platform for
people to see them, comment,review, give lots of stars so
that you know maybe WarnerBrothers will give you the
(26:09):
hundred million dollar nextmovie now, although please still
do Basting Palermo somehow,somewhere.
We'll figure it out.
Absolutely, absolutely, yeah.
And and I would say also as alasting tool, filmmakers, uh,
adding to what Rel just said isgo global, think global, because
movies are not just made in theUnited States.
And yes, we hear about tariffsand all that crap.
(26:31):
But again, if you got a littlecash, you can go shoot anywhere.
And you know, it's not gonna beaffected.
And think about the globalaudience, not just you and what
you think are the trends.
Uh, think about what people wantto see and people wanna be
ultimately entertained in youknow, whatever form, cheap or
expensive.
It's all about entertainment.
(26:51):
That's why it's calledentertainment industry.
So, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (26:54):
So and then and then what is also important when you
do that, you know, put thecamera on a tripod.
Don't start doing this handheldstuff, you know.
Uh get a little slider for likea hundred bucks.
You can have a slider.
Put the camera on a slider so itmoves, and then when you're in
the editing, do a nice buy forlike 10 bucks a LUT.
(27:16):
Put the LUT on top of theseshots to make it really look
cool and fresh and different andlook like cinema.
You know, I see a lot of lowbudget filmmakers not doing
that, you know.
So you need to do that.
Don't do a handheld crappymovie, make it slick and make do
some big white shots, do somenice close-up shots.
(27:36):
Even with your phone, you can dothat, and then do it smooth,
make smooth transitions andmovements, tell your stories, uh
traditional way, and then everyday you shoot like two or three
really trailer shots, I callthem, you know, really cool kind
of angles or something weird orspectacular.
And then you have enough shotsto have a beautiful trailer, and
(27:59):
then have enough show footage toshoot to tell the story, and
then with the right color timingand the right movements of your
cameras, you can make it looklike a real movie.
You know, it's not thatcomplicated.
SPEAKER_01 (28:11):
Wow.
And that was a masterclass indirecting people.
I hope you took notes.
AI can take all the notes foryou now.
You don't even need we havetranscripts.
So uh please do listen to thisagain.
Uh, take notes.
I wish all the filmmakers outthere and the content creators
to keep on telling greatstories.
(28:31):
Royal it's been such a pleasureto have you.
You and I will be having dinnersoon, hint hint.
Um and anybody who enjoyed thisepisode, please subscribe, rate,
and review.
Uh, and go check out his movies.
See, they're pretty freakinggood because he's European too.
I'm like, I don't want to bebiased, but he knows how to tell
a story.
(28:52):
So uh hope you enjoyed thisepisode.
This is Alexa Malocchi, theHeart of Show Business, over and
Out.
Thank you for listening to thisweek's episode of The Heart of
Show Business.
If you enjoyed it, please shareit with a friend.
You can also subscribe, rate,and review the show on your
favorite podcast player.
(29:13):
If you have any questions orcomments or feedback for us, you
can reach me directly attheheartofshowbusiness.com.
Welcome to the Heart of Show Business.
I am your host, Alexia Melocchi.
I believe in great storytellingand that every successful artist
has a deep desire to expresssomething from the heart to
create a ripple effect in oursociety.
Emotion and entertainment areclosely tied together.
(00:24):
My guests and I want to give youinsider access to how the film,
television, and music industryworks.
We will cover dreams come true,the roadlines travel, journey
beginnings, and a lot of insightand inspiration in between.
I am a successful film andtelevision entrepreneur who came
to America as a teenager topursue my show business dreams.
(00:47):
Are you ready for someunfiltered real talk with
entertainment visionaries fromall over the world?
Then let's roll sound andaction.
So, hello everyone to all mylisteners of the Heart of Show
Business podcast.
(01:07):
I am coming on here all frazzledand uh yeah, all frazzled, which
I usually am not, um, recordingright a few days before the
famous American film market,which is one of the biggest film
conventions in the world.
It takes place in Los Angelesthis way.
And I just happen to have here,just because we're talking about
(01:31):
independent film and makingthings happen no matter what, if
you got a great story to tell,with the wonderful Roel René,
that is the way I like to callhim.
He is a very, very prolificEuropean director who has done
so many films.
You're gonna have to look him upon IMTB.
(01:51):
And um, because I'm not gonnaname them all, that's just not
gonna happen.
But he, I love the way that hedirects.
Uh, he's done films for Netflix,he's done series like the George
Washington series, he's done theScorpion King to it, to name a
few.
He just shot a film in Maltawith Aaron Eckhart.
(02:11):
He does it all.
And I love also that he's hisown cinematographer.
So we'll talk about that andwe'll talk about also the way
that he approaches independentfilm and the new way that
directors, not that's really nota new way, but I think it's the
best way where directors getattached to projects that they
really believe in and theybecome a little bit more
(02:33):
proactive in the process.
Because if we if we give thecontrol away to the powers that
be, then nothing ever happens,right, Roel?
SPEAKER_00 (02:41):
Yes, that's true.
That's true.
You have to you're your own,you're your own producer, you
know, and uh you need to movethings forward, otherwise you're
gonna be waiting forever.
SPEAKER_01 (02:52):
Yeah, yeah.
It's so great to have you here.
And I just wanted to go back alittle bit into your origin
story because, of course, whatwhat got you the bug of wanting
to be a director?
Why did you choose to be adirector?
Of course, you're also aproducer, but what it where is
the focus on that?
Tell me a little bit about that.
SPEAKER_00 (03:12):
Yeah, no, I was 11 when I saw Blade Runner, and uh
I then understood that you kindof as a director build worlds,
and so I wanted to build worldsand be director.
So from that moment on,everything that I did was was
learning myself, uh, directingstuff when I was very young, and
(03:33):
then get myself bluffing intothe industry, uh, telling that I
could do it, and then I had toprove to do it.
So, and I was very young doingall these things, and I was 22
when I was already startingdirecting TV series in the
Netherlands.
I'm from the Netherlands, and Iwas 26, I had my own production
company, and I was 28 directingmy first feature, but was then
(03:54):
picked up by Warner Brothers inEurope, Alliance Gate in
America, and so that was kind ofmy ticket into uh into
Hollywood.
SPEAKER_01 (04:03):
Wow, and how did you convince them?
I want to know becauseobviously, like you said, how
how does one get that firstshot?
Because you know, was theresomething specific that you did
in the Netherlands?
SPEAKER_00 (04:16):
What I did, I started directing TV, so I did
uh TV movies and and TV actionseries, but also did a lot of
reality shows and pop concertsand multicamera.
But my first movie, I convincedeverybody to do it because I put
a second mortgage on my home andwas one of the financiers.
And so I went to somemillionaire friends of mine and
(04:39):
said, Hey, can you put 100,000uh euros into this movie?
And because I did 50,000 eurosand uh and I believe in this.
So that's kind of how I did myfirst movie.
Um, when I came to America, myfirst American movie was even
lower budget, it was like nobudget, and uh we shot with like
(04:59):
four people, four actors in thedesert, and um, and but I
bluffed myself, you know.
I was because I remember comingto Hollywood and I had a lot of
meetings, and I had two movieson my belt, and I had a golden
calf for my first movie, what iskind of the Dutch Oscar for best
director.
Um, the youngest ever gettingthis thing, this thing.
So it it opened the door, butthen I remember in Hollywood was
(05:23):
like, Yeah, but can you workwith American stars?
And we don't know, you're veryEuropean.
So I remember at that time thatI was like, uh screw this.
Um, so we went and made ourmovie for like$20,000 for actors
in the desert, and then I wasannouncing it.
So I announced a rule of Reneeis directing in a Hollywood
movie, a rule of Renee iscasting, a rule and A is raped,
(05:45):
rule Rena's in post-production,and then I was an American
director, even it was a$20,000for Actors in the Desert movie.
And then the first thing we did,we cut a trailer, and with the
trailer, it was really cool.
We went to I went to producers,and then I got a producer giving
me$300,000 to do a LanceHendrickson movie, and um, so we
(06:10):
did that.
We were shooting two monthslater.
Um, and then from that I cut atrailer, and I got uh my first
Sony studio movie for like mynine million dollars.
So we made this movie calledPistol Whipped, and uh and then
I there it goes, you know.
From that moment I didn't stopdirecting.
SPEAKER_01 (06:28):
Wow, what a great story! And you know what?
It really goes to show what Ialways say to everybody, which
is put your money where yourmouth is.
I mean, if you want to be ableto tell somebody to invest in
you, you have to first invest inyourself as well, because nobody
else will do it for you.
And you have to show that youbelieve in yourself enough and
you can prove that you can dothat for a price, and and that's
(06:52):
the way to do it.
You know, obviously, ideally, itwould be great if everybody
writes us checks, and but weknow that's not the case.
But I love, I love how you soldyourself and you know, and you
went out to your friends andeverything.
What I also know, and by theway, little well, we're not
gonna say too much about it, butRoyelle and I are gonna be
working together on a film.
We're not gonna say which one itis, but um, and I'm so happy and
(07:14):
impressed because another thingthat I did say, because like you
said, with the trailer that youshot, he showed up at the
meeting with um a fullpresentation of how he sees
directing the film.
And what thing that obviouslywas uh a standout thing is that
he uh he said something about umscripts and uh the speed of uh
(07:36):
getting us to the juice of thestory.
Do you want to elaborate onthat?
Because I thought that wasbrilliant.
SPEAKER_00 (07:44):
Tell me more because I I told so many things.
What was exactly what you mean?
SPEAKER_01 (07:49):
You were saying that you know, certain like powers
that be, you know, are uhtelling you or showing you
script where it takes like 30pages to get to the main point
of the story where the hero goeson a journey and you're like,
why do we need to wait 20minutes to do that?
Can we do that?
SPEAKER_00 (08:05):
Yes, yeah, yes, yeah, because you know, I I
remember that I was doing a lotof studio movies like 10, 15
years ago.
And I remember we run studio,they love first acts, you know,
like a first act like Sid Fieldtells us we need like 25 pages
to the first act.
But for me, you know, you youand when you make a genre movie
(08:27):
or when you make a commercialproduct, you know, you need to
have a first act where there'sonly three scenes, right?
There's like one scene thattells you who's your main
character and what is his goalin life.
Second scene is what is theopposition, and what is the
villain, or what is the problem,and the third scene, what is the
genre, you know, from thismovie?
Uh is it action, is it horror,is it thriller?
(08:48):
Uh, and then that's the threescenes.
The the the crew of the audienceknows now where they're into,
and then in the second act, youstart building the character
because you're gonna reveal thecharacter's arc in how he
interact with the problem or hisjourney in the second act.
So, like a 20-30-page first act,it's just boring and it doesn't
(09:11):
work.
And when you're in the editing,you're gonna produce studios,
they always ask me, well, weneed to be quicker to the uh to
the action, we need to goquicker to the the story
evolving.
Yeah, but we should have shotthe character stuff then in the
second act and not in the firstact.
So, yes.
Um, I believe in the three-scenefirst act structure, and then
(09:33):
the second act is where youdevelop the character.
SPEAKER_01 (09:36):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that is so true.
And I also love a little bit,little birdie told me that you
like to do your owncinematography.
Are you a control freak, or isit just a passion of yours?
SPEAKER_00 (09:48):
No, for me, it's like I never understood the
principle of directing a moviewhile you sit in another room
watching television.
I don't understand thatprinciple.
It's like, what is that allabout?
You're sitting in another roomand you're sitting on the on
your ass watching a TV, uh, andyou see the I don't understand
that.
So for me, from day on, I wasalways on set next to the camera
(10:12):
and um talking with the actors,feeling the energy of the
actors, and then I started toannoy, I was very annoyed by the
slow speed of a cinematographersthat I worked with at the time
in the beginning of my career,and um and it and it holed up,
you know, it was not progressiveenough, and a lot of hesitations
and too many lights, you know.
(10:33):
So, and then I realized at thetime I was doing this TV movie
in the Netherlands.
I was like, oh, wait a minute,I'm also the producer of this
movie, so maybe I should justfire the cinematographer and
take over.
So that's what I did, and thenfrom that moment on, I felt like
for me, directing and thecinematography is one thing, you
know, choosing a location,blocking an actor, or even
(10:56):
developing the script andchoosing the location and then
blocking the scene with thecamera, you know, the camera is
the third character in thescene, so it becomes part of one
uh tool, one thing.
So if the camera is the brush,you know, and you don't ask the
painter to have somebody elsehold the brush, you know.
So I'm holding the brush topaint the painting.
(11:18):
But what later, when I startdoing bigger things like uh like
uh uh big movies, I startedhiring uh or a second
cinematographers who wereoperators on the two on a third
or the fourth camera, and thenthey kind of co-DP, so they were
responsible for the lighting umin prep and uh on the set.
(11:38):
And also in some movies, I hadreally strong um gaffers, and I
called them director oflighting, and uh and basically
in the prep I will tell themwhat I want, but during the
shoot I would not talk aboutthem about lighting at all.
You know, I was talking with myoperators and I operate a camera
and I had two other operators, Inormally shoot with three, four
(11:58):
cameras, and then I'm talkingwith the actors, you know,
constantly.
I also remember that studios,studio heads, executives they
were very nervous when theyworked for the first time with
me.
They're always like, but if youdo the cinematography, does the
actor get enough attention?
But when you ask any actor thatworked with me, they will tell
you that they got more attentionfrom me as a director than any
(12:22):
other directors because I'mthere, I'm interacting with them
and I'm constantly communicatingand absorbing their energy and
giving them energy.
And so yeah, that's that's whatI do.
SPEAKER_01 (12:34):
Well, you really sound like like you love what
you're doing, and you know, Ihave to ask you the question
because of course we'renavigating very challenging and
very difficult times when itcomes to financing movies,
producing movies, directingmovies.
Has there been a moment whereyou just want to throw in the
towels and say that's it?
Or is there something in theback of your mind where you go,
(12:54):
I have an unfinished business,there is something that I really
want to do, I want to tell morestories.
Like, where do you stand onthat?
Because I mean, it's kind oflike we'll all get depressed and
then we get excited again.
So, how is that working out foryou, my friend?
SPEAKER_00 (13:08):
Yeah, no, the thing, of course, we I get depressed,
you know.
Uh, when you uh work on a moviefor a long time and then it
doesn't happen, that'sfrustrating.
But the good thing is that I'mworking on many, many projects,
like I it's it's a huge list.
The list is hanging here on mywall.
Kind of this is the list, soit's kind of uh 50 projects, and
(13:32):
um so and in this process, youknow, you need to realize what
is coming, you know.
When when the strikes werestarting to happen, you know, I
knew what that it was coming.
So you are scheduling andplanning in a way that that
keeps me busy, you know.
Uh when AI was coming, I wasplanning and scheduling to learn
(13:54):
it and to use it.
And so I'm now one of the firstones embracing it and doing a
lot of AI projects right now.
So you need to you need toreinvent yourself all the time
because if you're gonna be stuckwith your old ways and you're
waiting for that one project tocome along, it's never gonna
happen, you know.
And that's maybe the reason whyI'm always working, and all and
(14:16):
I'm very lucky in that way.
But I create that luck by beingon top of what the world is
doing, what the world isdemanding, where it's going, and
then adjust and and be willingto do this all over the world,
you know.
If I was stuck in Hollywood,then it would be different.
But like you, you know, we arealso very European-minded.
(14:40):
So we are everywhere, and andthat's how you keep working, and
uh, and I hope to keep workingtill I drop that, you know.
SPEAKER_01 (14:49):
Oh, I love that.
You'll be here for a long time.
And you know what?
I love what you just said, andpeople say to me, like, how can
you be attached to so manyprojects?
You know, do you have thebandwidth?
But the thing is, a I get veryexcited about storytelling and
possibility, number one.
And number two, just IQ.
I think I will be very boredworking on just one single film
(15:11):
day in and day out, because weknow it changes all the time.
You think you are fullyfinanced, and then something
happens and everything fallsapart.
And then what do you do withyourself?
So I like you know, RidleyScott.
I mean, I was like every once ina while I go on on, you know,
Variety Inside or whatever it'scalled, Luminated, and I'm like,
oh, he's got like 60 projects.
And you know, some of them arewith big stars and they still
(15:33):
haven't happened.
And so it makes me feel goodbecause it's like it's Ridley is
stuck sometimes, and it's okayfor you and I to be stuck or
waiting for something special tocome along.
Now, obviously, we want to beahead and we want to know what's
what the market wants and whatthe market needs.
I know you show me you're doingan animated movie which you've
never done with the help of AI.
(15:55):
I don't know if you want to tellme anything about that, because
you know, maybe you don't, butI'm curious.
What are people thinking?
SPEAKER_00 (16:02):
It's still their secret, but but officially, yes.
You know, I always wanted to dolike a big and a Moana kind of
movie.
It was always kind of my bigwish.
Um, I love those movies, but itwas never in the charts, you
know.
I don't think I would ever behired by Pixel to do one of
their movies.
So when AI started to come, likeuh and it became really good.
(16:25):
I went um uh back to Europe anduh pitched this animation movie
for this theme park, and um, andthen we got it, you know.
Um we got the money and we'regoing to make this movie, and
it's like a full animation AImovie, and it's so much fun.
But but for me, also it's it isagain you talked about
(16:45):
opportunities and understandingthe market, you know.
For example, a year ago, um Iwent to the sales agent and I
said to the sales, and this wasin the middle of nothing
happens, right?
And I said to the sales agent,okay, if we do a movie with no
stars, uh no actors, and noquestions asked, I'm just gonna
make this movie.
What kind of money can you giveme?
(17:06):
And I want to be a full partner.
So the sales agent said, okay,$350,000.
Uh that is the max.
And then I told them, I askedthem, so what do you want?
What is the genre?
What do you want?
And they said, we want a moviewhere a bear attacks a town.
I said, okay.
And then six weeks later, we hada script.
We were shooting in Bulgaria abear movie called Savage Hunt,
(17:30):
and uh, we shot with a realbear, and the bear shoots with
physical effects, and uh andthis movie is now on the market,
it's doing really well, it'sselling all over the world.
So it's also kind of daring todo what the market asked for,
you know, instead of me anartistic director wants to tell
this really important story uhthat nobody's really waiting for
(17:51):
to see, you know.
SPEAKER_01 (17:53):
Exactly.
And you know what?
Also, that the technology andeverything has changed so fast.
And I think a lot of the timeswhy many of the big studio
producers sometimes are gettingstuck is exactly in that.
They're getting stuck with thegames.
Oh, you have to have Brad Pittin the film, or nothing is gonna
happen.
And then they're waiting yearsand years, and then they're not
(18:14):
barging on budgets and notbudging on speed of filmmaking.
And I love what you you and Idiscussed because we're like,
okay, how what will it take youto shoot this movie?
It's like I can do it for thismuch, and we can shoot it in
Italy, and we can do this, andyou know, I'll go with my drones
and I'll put together my dronesand my camera gear, and then
we'll go and film like B B-rollstuff like we're doing.
(18:37):
And I love that it was soexciting.
And honestly, I know you'resuper busy, and and obviously,
I'm I'm hoping that the filmthat you and I want to do
together will be somehowhappening sooner than later.
And if you have another movie,of course, we'll wait for you
because I know you shoot fast.
So I'm not too worried.
It's you're not gonna be stuckfor two years on something.
Yeah, so I don't have to waitfor you for two years.
(18:59):
Um, the last movie that you justdid, um, that's when you came
out to me because my Russianbuyers, you know, have bought
it.
I didn't know about it, but Iguess I found out later.
They like sometimes to dobusiness without me.
What can you do?
Um, how is it going?
I mean, do you want to talkabout it?
Are you happy to do that?
SPEAKER_00 (19:17):
No, that's the that's the bear movie.
SPEAKER_01 (19:19):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (19:20):
Uh that's what the Russian buyers did.
I did another movie in between.
So I just finished another moviecalled Love Hunt Hate Kill that
we shot in the desert in PalmSprings.
But there's a lot of things.
SPEAKER_01 (19:31):
That's what you showed me, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (19:32):
Yeah.
And uh so, but also I just cameback from Malta three weeks ago,
and uh I shot another TV seriesthere uh called Battle of the
Beast.
So it's kind of um yeah, youneed to be busy, keep yourself
busy.
And and while I'm doing stillthe big projects, because I'm
attached to some big movies withsome big stars already attached,
(19:55):
but those have well, you youtold it already, what you just
said, you know, they have along.
A long period of time, you needthe second name to attach
because one name is not enough.
You need now two names,sometimes three names, and then
you make an offer, and it takestwo months to get the results,
and then it's a pass, and thenyou have to go make a new offer
to a new actor, and then themarket has changed.
(20:16):
So the stars are not that hotanymore.
There's now different.
So it's like that game.
I play the game.
I have I have like five or sixof these high-end projects, and
uh, but while we wait and playthe game, I'm shooting other
things, you know, and uh and I'mready to shoot another one in
January.
So um, so yes.
SPEAKER_01 (20:36):
Yeah, that's not the perfect title for this episode
is playing the game.
And it's so true.
I went to the whole QA for theFormula One movie with Jerry
Bruckenheimer and uh and BradPitt, and it was very
interesting because even JerryBruckenheimer had to wait two
years to get Formula One toallow them to go and film and
give them their blessing.
And it's Jerry freakingBruckenheimer, and he has to get
(20:59):
the permission for and he'swaiting for two years, and then
of course, they were saying theycalled up Brad Pitt and they're
like, Would you fly to go meetthe people?
And then, of course, Brad Pittshows up, and then magically all
obstacles are lifted, and herethey are, and they can actually
film.
And I love hearing the successstories and everything.
(21:20):
In wrapping up, I is there anytype of mantra, life advice that
you want to give to an emergingdirector, writer, author,
producer who's just startingout.
Is there little words of wisdomthat you want to impart into
them beyond not throwingthemselves down the river?
SPEAKER_00 (21:44):
No, I think that's what I always tell uh starting
filmmakers is that you know,when I started, um, we didn't
have a phone, uh, we didn't havethe technology, didn't have
software on my laptop where Ican make a whole movie or do
visual effects in my own laptop.
And now with AI, it's even morethe sky is the limit.
(22:05):
So there's no excuse for anyemerging filmmaker to start
making a movie tomorrow, youknow, because in the end it
doesn't cost so much, you know.
You have a lot of friends whocan act, you have you you know a
writer or you write yourself,you know.
There's a lot of tools to learnhow to craft it.
Yes, you still need talent, youknow, talent is key.
(22:27):
But if you want to make a movie,you probably already have
talent, otherwise, you wouldnever have that invention.
So going and make it on your ownwith your own tools that you
have, or you borrow a camerafrom a friend and you get a
location that doesn't need apermit because it's somebody's
private property, and thenyou're gonna make a movie, you
(22:48):
know, and you cut it together onyour own editing software in
your laptop.
You can, you know, and that'skind of uh how it should be
done, you know.
There's no reason for you to tryto raise a million bucks or five
million dollars as your firstmovie or even your second movie
because it's not gonna happen.
And also, yes, a lot of peoplemake shorts, you know, and maybe
(23:12):
one in thousands, their shortgets picked up and it becomes a
feature, you know, but it's veryunique and it happens.
But the amount of time that youput in making a 10 or 20 minutes
short, it's the same amount oftime you put in to make a 90
minutes movie.
And the 90 minutes movie you cansell, you know, and you can
(23:32):
become a filmmaker.
And the 20 minutes short willnot sell, and it will go to
festivals, and it's great foryour ego, but it doesn't make
you a continuous filmmaker.
So, um, so and I did that alsowith Love and Hate Kill, the the
movie I shot a half year ago,because I was like, I preaching
(23:53):
this all the time to everybody,so let me do it myself again.
So, in like three weeks or fourweeks, we set this whole movie
up.
We got everything from Amazon.
Uh, really, we orderedeverything from Amazon, and
after the shoot, for real,everything that was still 100%
nice and good, we returned toAmazon, got the money back, and
(24:14):
we made this movie for like$35,000,$36,000, and uh and it
was a lot of a lot of fun, youknow, and it's a real movie, and
now in post-production with thismovie, it's a real movie, and
it's really so there's no moreexcuse.
There's no more excuse to be afilmmaker, you know.
And if you and I believe in the10,000 hour rule, you know, if
(24:37):
you want to become a conceptpianist, you need to play for
10,000 hours piano to becomelike that's that's cooled.
So if you want to become afilmmaker, start making movies,
you know.
And maybe maybe your first two,three movies are terrible, but
you're gonna learn so much.
And then that's that fourthmovie, you're gonna be a genius
(24:58):
and gonna be uh hit the jackpot.
So uh don't stop talking andstart shooting, you know.
SPEAKER_01 (25:06):
Oh, I love that.
What great piece of advice, andI love the Amazon story.
In fact, like little insideinformation.
I'm not gonna name names, butthere is an actor who on a movie
that I know that they couldn'tafford to pay him all the money
that they could.
So he had asked for a lot ofdesigner clothes, you know, to
like from the costume designerbecause it fit.
So basically, what they did isthat they got the clothes and
(25:27):
then he sold them on real toreal, and then he got a bunch of
money for them, and you know, itwas money allotted for the
wardrobe, and then they ended uppaying him uh the extra money,
or he paid himself the extramoney by just saying, just give
me the clothes, I'll keep themand then I'll sell them.
So that's just how they do it,people.
That's called independentfilmmaking.
(25:48):
Uh, this has been such a greatconversation.
I wanted to keep it short andsweet, Royal, but um, it's been
a pleasure having you.
I'm gonna be dropping on theshow notes all the links to all
the films of yours that areavailable on any platform for
people to see them, comment,review, give lots of stars so
that you know maybe WarnerBrothers will give you the
(26:09):
hundred million dollar nextmovie now, although please still
do Basting Palermo somehow,somewhere.
We'll figure it out.
Absolutely, absolutely, yeah.
And and I would say also as alasting tool, filmmakers, uh,
adding to what Rel just said isgo global, think global, because
movies are not just made in theUnited States.
And yes, we hear about tariffsand all that crap.
(26:31):
But again, if you got a littlecash, you can go shoot anywhere.
And you know, it's not gonna beaffected.
And think about the globalaudience, not just you and what
you think are the trends.
Uh, think about what people wantto see and people wanna be
ultimately entertained in youknow, whatever form, cheap or
expensive.
It's all about entertainment.
(26:51):
That's why it's calledentertainment industry.
So, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (26:54):
So and then and then what is also important when you
do that, you know, put thecamera on a tripod.
Don't start doing this handheldstuff, you know.
Uh get a little slider for likea hundred bucks.
You can have a slider.
Put the camera on a slider so itmoves, and then when you're in
the editing, do a nice buy forlike 10 bucks a LUT.
(27:16):
Put the LUT on top of theseshots to make it really look
cool and fresh and different andlook like cinema.
You know, I see a lot of lowbudget filmmakers not doing
that, you know.
So you need to do that.
Don't do a handheld crappymovie, make it slick and make do
some big white shots, do somenice close-up shots.
(27:36):
Even with your phone, you can dothat, and then do it smooth,
make smooth transitions andmovements, tell your stories, uh
traditional way, and then everyday you shoot like two or three
really trailer shots, I callthem, you know, really cool kind
of angles or something weird orspectacular.
And then you have enough shotsto have a beautiful trailer, and
(27:59):
then have enough show footage toshoot to tell the story, and
then with the right color timingand the right movements of your
cameras, you can make it looklike a real movie.
You know, it's not thatcomplicated.
SPEAKER_01 (28:11):
Wow.
And that was a masterclass indirecting people.
I hope you took notes.
AI can take all the notes foryou now.
You don't even need we havetranscripts.
So uh please do listen to thisagain.
Uh, take notes.
I wish all the filmmakers outthere and the content creators
to keep on telling greatstories.
(28:31):
Royal it's been such a pleasureto have you.
You and I will be having dinnersoon, hint hint.
Um and anybody who enjoyed thisepisode, please subscribe, rate,
and review.
Uh, and go check out his movies.
See, they're pretty freakinggood because he's European too.
I'm like, I don't want to bebiased, but he knows how to tell
a story.
(28:52):
So uh hope you enjoyed thisepisode.
This is Alexa Malocchi, theHeart of Show Business, over and
Out.
Thank you for listening to thisweek's episode of The Heart of
Show Business.
If you enjoyed it, please shareit with a friend.
You can also subscribe, rate,and review the show on your
favorite podcast player.
(29:13):
If you have any questions orcomments or feedback for us, you
can reach me directly attheheartofshowbusiness.com.
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