October 19, 2023 • 29 mins
In today's episode of The Hearth, we talk about mental health at the workplace.
Together, we'll explore the cost of mental health issues in the workplace, the stigma associated with it, and the transformative steps we can take to foster a healthier, more sustainable work ecosystem.
The first step towards change is understanding the magnitude of the problem.
Did you know that 20% of Americans have a reported mental health condition, with depression and anxiety costing us an estimated $210 billion every year?
And the cost of alcohol and substance abuse? A staggering $400 billion.
Not to mention the increase in suicide rates, the second leading cause of death for those between 15 and 24 years old. Yet, the stigma attached to mental health issues often prevents employees from seeking care.
In this episode, we'll debunk the myths surrounding these issues, encourage open dialogue, and scrutinize practical ways to build a more equitable and sustainable work environment.
I hope you enjoy today's episode.
Candice's Story
Wellbeing in the Workplace
If something you heard today brought a smile to your face or a spark to your heart, and you’d like to connect with me, here are a few ways you can do that.
One is my newsletter, it’s where I put most of my time and energy when I’m not working with clients or on this podcast. Sorry social media! It’s a mix of real life stories, tips and tricks and of course updates on what’s happening with the podcast. Whenever something is going on with me or in my business, it always comes out there first.
Another resource that I have for you is my Guide to Doing Work Differently. The guide takes you through four inquiries into how you can build a more sustainable and equitable work environment for yourself and your team. It's a great place to start.
Last, if you’ve got a burning question, a comment, or a situation you’d like my eyes on, you can email me at candice@fortressandflourish.com.
If you enjoyed this episode, hit subscribe to know when the next episodes come out, and if you’re feeling generous, leave a review. Reviews help other like-minded folks find their way to this resource.
Learn more about Candice and her work here.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
The hearth is for you if you're a business leader
with a team.
Here we have conversationsabout how to keep growing.
When you feel you've reachedyour capacity, when what you're
doing is working but you'restarting to see the cracks, when
there's a gap between whereyou're at now and where you want
(00:26):
to be, here we find ways totransition through the struggle
of survival toward creating athriving business that supports
you and your team as wholehumans.
Your host is me, candaceElliott.
I'm a business strategist andmentor who specializes in
(00:49):
working with business owners whoare going through periods of
growth.
Especially when you're addingmore people to your team, the
practices and systems thatworked when your team was
smaller just don't seem to fitanymore, and when you're caught
in stress and reaction, it'stough to reimagine the way that
(01:14):
you created your world of work,both your own personal one and
the one that you created forothers.
I help people align theirvalues and business practices to
build practical, sustainable,thriving work ecosystems and no,
(01:35):
this isn't just some workutopia talk.
To do this, I bring forward mydecade-long professional
background in human resourcesand organizational development,
working with growing businessesacross many sectors, and my
decades-long search for meaningand wholeness, which includes
(01:59):
researching the history of workand how it came to be what it is
today, practicing atrauma-informed approach to
business and integrating work,life and spirituality into a
meaningful whole.
Let's take this journeytogether, hello, hello, welcome
(02:27):
to this episode of the Hearthwhere we're going to talk about
normalizing mental healthconversations at work.
So I'm going to start out bytelling you my own story of
mental health and work, and thenI'm going to share with you
(02:48):
some research that I found veryfascinating and just some
practical kind of ways to dothis.
So first a story.
I definitely grew up with thework harder, faster, more like
(03:10):
mentality.
I have a grandfather, rayElliott, who was in the military
during World War II and then hereceived the GI Bill, was able
to build a house and start aconstruction company and worked
(03:32):
very hard.
He built nut packing houses, hebuilt apartment buildings, he
purchased apartment buildings,he had an almond orchard, he
owned an oil field.
He my family to this day owns acabin in the Sierra Nevada
mountains which was purchased bymy grandparents.
(03:53):
And so there is this narrativethat was passed from that
generation to my parents'generation.
My mother's father was aprisoner of war during World War
II.
He was interned in Japan, wasextremely emaciated when he came
(04:16):
out of the internment camp andwas saved by the Red Cross the
US Red Cross, which is how hecame from.
They were Dutch colonizersliving in Indonesia.
He was saved by the Red Crossand brought to Australia where
he learned English and got anengineering degree.
(04:38):
He built the house that hisfamily my family lived in there
and then came to Chicago andworked for Harza Engineering and
built hydroelectric dams allover the world.
So from both sides of my familyto my parents is this narrative
(05:00):
of like work hard, you canalways do more If you think you
have it bad.
Just think about what we had togo through in this expectation
of success and working hard.
Right, my parents were the lastof the baby boomers becoming
(05:22):
adults in the 80s, right?
And so there's this corporatementality working very long
hours.
My mom actually found a reallyunique way of.
She became a graphic designerand was able to find part-time
(05:45):
work so that she could stilltake care of me and my sister
and do a lot of the child's careresponsibilities, at least
during the week.
While my dad had really longhours, I remember when I was a
kid him traveling like threehours or more a day to and from
(06:09):
work for different projects thathe was working on, and he is
still, to this day, aconstruction project manager,
and so I grew up with this asthe model of what work is right.
It's like you find a professionand you get hired by a company
and you do this job and youpretty much do similar jobs,
(06:33):
working your way up in a careerladder for your entire life, and
that's like that didn't quitehappen for me.
I graduated from college in 2008, right in the middle of the
recession, and you probably, ifyou've listened to the last
season of the Hearth, you'veprobably heard some of this
(06:57):
story.
There's an episode that'scalled Candice's Story.
It goes into much more detailthan I'm talking about right now
because I'm really bringingthis relating all of this to
mental health and the workplace,but so I like tried a lot of
different things throughout my20s.
I was trying to figure out likeI went to school for
(07:20):
archaeology or for anthropologyand philosophy.
I knew that I didn't want to dothat.
I didn't want to go to do amaster's degree right away, so I
got a teaching certificate andI taught English as a second
language because I had a friendwho was doing it and it just
seemed like sort of a shoe injob, you know, which was good,
(07:44):
because the recession happenedand so I needed like work.
I needed reliable work where Iwasn't going to get fired from
my job and then be unable tosupport myself.
Through a series of events, Icame to human resources and I
(08:07):
had had a lot of instability.
That happened in my life duringmy 20s.
There were some very difficultpersonal choices that I had to
make which were traumatic.
I now can go back and see them.
You know, like I can see the methat is 25, that's trying to
like control everything to beable to survive in the world and
(08:34):
not live in poverty and to likescrape and struggle and get
like to a better position in theworld, and I can see how that
is a protective mechanism that Ibuilt because of the
uncertainty that I wasstruggling throughout that time
and also how that has hadunintentional negative effects
(08:58):
since, like such as keeping mein that sort of survival mindset
past the time when I had reallygotten out of the survival mode
.
How does that really, as aworking professional, when I got
to, I think I was around 30.
(09:19):
I had this experience of burnoutand it was very intense.
There was, like this specific,gradually increased, you know,
over time till there was thislike moment of crisis, and what
happened in that moment is thatI was like hyperventilating, I
(09:42):
was like breathing really fast.
I couldn't control my breathing, I was like crying.
I couldn't, like you know, keepmyself from feeling a whole
range of mostly very difficultemotions of like panic and
stress and anger and sorrow andall of these things wrapped up
(10:07):
together.
And I knew that like somethingwas happening with me, with my
mental health, psychologically,like something was happening and
I didn't feel like I had thetools to be able to deal with it
.
Like I have meditated for along time, I've done yoga for a
(10:30):
long time, I have, like you know, I know a lot.
I know I knew at that time abit about mental health, but I
knew enough that what washappening then was beyond what I
could fix on my own.
Like it wasn't like a mindsetthing, right, it wasn't like I
(10:51):
needed to change my mindsetabout it.
It was like I needed to do somedeep, real work into how I
became an adult in order to likefigure out how to move forward.
But at the time I was sent to apsychiatrist and the
psychiatrist told me, like, thisis normal, it happens all the
(11:12):
time, you know, people don't?
It's not a panic attack,because I went in and I was like
I had I think I had a panic,panic attack and this
psychiatrist is, like you didn'thave a panic attack, like, what
, like, what else can you sayabout it?
Let's break it down into likethe pieces that it was.
It's that you were crying, thatyou were breathing a lot, that
(11:33):
you, you know, were shaking inthe car, that you like, like
couldn't get yourself togetherfor hours, but that's not a
panic attack.
I'm laughing now looking back,because it's just interesting
how other people, especiallymental health professionals, can
(11:55):
label or unlabel experiences inways that are and are not
helpful.
But I knew that this was not ahelpful person for me to be
talking to, because I couldn't Imean, I just couldn't keep
doing what I was doing.
(12:17):
At the same time, I had a verystrong pain that happened in the
right side of my neck.
It was like a muscle spasm andit did not go away for weeks,
and so there was this mental aswell as this like physical
manifestation of stress.
Really, that's what it was.
That was the catalyst forstarting my company, for, you
(12:43):
know, working with businessowners on creating workplaces
where people can thrive, wherepeople are really supported in
the fullness of their humanityat work, and for me, this
combination of you know, thephysical and mental health and
(13:04):
burnout and the structures thatwe just assume have to be the
way that work is.
It's just.
It can be a different way.
And so for the past few months,I've, you know, been on this
deep dive of looking intoresearch around health and the
(13:24):
workplace and employees, and allof that.
An interesting study that Ifound was done by the US Chamber
of Commerce and VeteransAffairs, specifically hiring our
heroes, and they looked intomental health and work and they
(13:46):
actually created a toolkitthat'll link, that has to do
with supporting mental health inthe workplace, and they found
that 80% of Americans areexpected to face a mental health
challenge in their lifetime.
And I mean I feel like 80, Idon't know.
(14:07):
I feel like 100% of people aregoing to face a mental health
challenge of some kind in theirlifetime.
I can get why they're only at80, but really I mean everyone
goes through times when theyhave more or less capacity.
Everyone is going to losesomeone who's close to them.
You know, everyone is going togo through some kind of really
(14:31):
difficult decision-makingprocess, and the point, though,
is that, you know, with thishigh number, is that these
challenges have to be normalized, like we can't stigmatize
people because they're havingmental health challenges.
We have to recognize thatmental health is a part of our
(14:54):
health in the way that ourphysical health is.
It's not like we I mean, forthe most part, I don't think
people shame people if theybreak a leg right, but there is
shame that people experience ifthey're having difficult mental
health challenges, or and thenalso if people are
(15:14):
neurodivergent, which is notsomething I'm really talking
about today, but I think is apart of the conversation too.
Within this kind of world ofmental health, there are some
costs that came out of thisstudy that are huge.
(15:35):
Like because mental healthissues are so common and because
they happen so often, they'revery expensive.
Depression and anxiety aloneare estimated to cost the
American economy $210 billion onan annual basis.
(15:58):
That's through direct andindirect costs.
So direct costs are likemedical expenses.
Indirect costs are like whathappens with businesses, so
absenteeism, lost productivity,lost earning potential and these
kinds of things.
Another sort of related cost isalcohol and substance abuse,
(16:22):
which is estimated to costanother $400 billion, and this
is annually, every single year.
Some other kind of likestatistics in this area just to
emphasize how important itreally is is that 20% of
(16:45):
Americans, at the time of thisstudy, had a reported mental
health condition, and that'sreported.
There's like a whole slew ofpeople who are not reporting
their mental health condition,so just one out of five people
has a reported mental healthcondition.
(17:06):
And then another importantstatistic because it is related
to mental health and then alsoto loneliness is that there has
been a 30% increase in suicidein the US in the last 25 years.
It's the 10th leading cause ofdeath in our country and it's
actually the second leadingcause of death for youth between
(17:29):
15 and 24 years old, and in mylife, the time when I was most
at risk for suicide was duringthose ages between 15 and 24.
Along with this sort ofunderstanding of how prevalent
(17:49):
the issue is, most employeeswill not seek care for mental
health issues or talk about themin the workplace because of the
stigma that there is againstthem.
It's actually eight out of 10employees will not seek care,
and so what does that stigmalook like?
So one is just generally howpeople talk about mental health.
(18:17):
So if the narrative is like wework really long hours, we just
get it and we make it happen, welike it doesn't matter what's
going on in your life, like youjust gotta like pull yourself up
by the bootstraps and get herdone, there's not a lot of
(18:42):
sympathy for mental healthchallenges that are coming up or
physical health challenges thatare coming up, because what
happens in that work environment?
When there is an issue let'sjust say someone needs to have a
surgery, right, and because theway that you have created the
business is to always be atcapacity, like there is no more
(19:06):
capacity to do any more work,then there is no way to deal
with the needs of this employeewho maybe they have to have
heart surgery, right, and sobecause there's no capacity,
there is pressure on theorganization and the employee to
(19:27):
deal with this situation and itbecomes more of a problem and
it becomes more stressful foreveryone and it's already a
stressful thing, right.
Whereas if you have anotherkind of a work environment where
you're checking in witheverybody every week to see how
(19:49):
everybody's doing capacity-wise,to find out on a red, yellow,
green spectrum how everybody'sdoing.
You can track how much or howlittle people have available to
deal with things and how muchpeople are going through and how
(20:11):
much what's happening outsideof work is affecting work or how
much work is affecting what'soutside of work.
And so this is like oneimportant thing to do is to
normalize talking about mentalhealth and capacity is one way
to do that.
Capacity meaning what do I havethe ability to take on right
(20:33):
now?
Like, do I have the capacityfor the job that I have in front
of me?
Maybe I don't.
Maybe I have only capacity fora sliver of the job that is in
front of me right now because ofwhat's happening in my life.
And if I can focus really wellon this sliver and deal with all
the things that are happeningin my life, I will be able at
(20:55):
some point to take on more.
But it's understanding thatpeople's capacity it expands and
it contracts and it expands andit contracts.
And if you're able to expandand contract with the person and
keep them engaged in the workthrough their difficulties and
(21:18):
support them, then you'll beable to keep them for the long
term, you know, and they'll knowthat they're supported by you,
respected, trusted, that you'reable to work with them through
things that happen in theirlives.
And yeah, I mean in the shortrun, when the person is having
their difficulties, like you'renot going to get as much
(21:39):
productivity, but over the longrun of the lifetime of the
person working with you, youwill get more.
So I said there are two formsof this.
So one is how the organizationnormalizes mental health
conversations.
The other is the employees'comfortability to participate in
(22:04):
those conversations and knowingthat they will be treated well
and still, you know, perceivedas a part of the team and
perceived well through thoseconversations, is essential.
So the more that this is thecase, the more likely it is that
(22:26):
someone is going to seek careor treatment.
If someone is, like, fearful oflosing their job or a promotion
opportunity or, you know, ifthere's kind of like this
cutthroat, like work dynamicgoing on of like performer or
die, then people are not goingto talk about what's happening
(22:49):
with them in their mental health.
And then what happens is, let'ssay, I'm going through
something very difficult and Ican't talk about it at work
because I think I'm going tolose my job.
If I talk about it or nobodycares, there isn't a way to have
(23:09):
this conversation with thepeople that I work with, then
I'm going to start to feelresentful about my time at work.
This is one way I could go.
I could start to feel resentfulabout just going to work.
Then maybe I'm going to startlooking at my pay and be like,
oh, is this even worth my time?
Like, why should I be here ifI'm only getting this much per
(23:30):
hour of my work?
Like what if I just gosomewhere else where there's an
easier job and do that instead?
So then this conversationstarts happening and then the
person really starts to checkout.
So instead of adjusting thework to fit the needs of the
(23:51):
employee so that you candecrease the capacity that's
needed for the person to do thejob while they're going through
a difficult time, they're goingto do it for themselves and
you're not going to get the kindof productivity that you would
think that you would need.
And instead of retaining themand keeping them through the
difficult time, you're justgoing to lose them Because it's
(24:14):
going to create argument andconflict and tension.
What are some steps that you cantake?
I mean, we've already talkedabout having some kind of
check-in like a way where eitheryour whole team or you could do
it department by department.
Just kind of talks about.
(24:37):
You know, it may not be mentalhealth.
You don't have to say likelet's talk about your mental
health everyone together,because that kind of gets into a
weird territory.
But you can talk about capacity, like what is your capacity
this week?
Are you feeling good?
Like, are you feeling solid onyou know, your plan?
Do you feel like you could takeon a little bit extra?
(24:59):
Are you feeling like you'regood on your plan but there's no
way you could bring on anymore?
Are you feeling like, oh mygosh, this is too much, I can't
possibly.
What do we do?
And those are good kind ofmarkers to know with your team
on a week by week basis, likehow it's going.
It can also bring up questionsthat they have about their work
(25:24):
where they need help, kind ofgetting to the next step.
So that's something to thinkabout.
Prioritizing your own mentalhealth is something else.
So thinking about, like, whatare the ways that you can
(25:45):
demonstrate that mental healthis a priority in the way that
you are showing up in your work?
It could be by expressingcertain boundaries around time
or around types of work.
It could be talking about goingto see your therapist.
(26:06):
If you do that, I went to see atherapist after I had this
burnout situation Cindy Lane shewas on the podcast last season
she fascinating episode aboutinternal family systems, if you
want to go into that.
(26:27):
She helped me to understandpsychologically what was
happening with my mind and thestories that I had created in
order to survive and how thosestories were not actually
helping me.
That has led to all differentkinds of work over the years on
(26:49):
mental health and psychology andreally coming to a sense of
belonging, and then alsospirituality as well.
So, prioritizing your own mentalhealth and finding ways to show
it, not like in a you know, I'mgoing to show you how I
prioritize my mental health kindof a way, but living it out in
(27:13):
a way so that people can see it,and then you can always bring
on support to help.
You know, if you're reallygoing through a difficult time
with your company and you'reunsure how to get out of it, my
friend Kat Lee is a wonderfulresource, and then I have other
(27:35):
resources that I can give to youas well.
So if that's happening for you,reach out and we can find ways
to support you and your team.
Well, thank you so much forjoining me for this little talk
about mental health and theworkplace.
And you know, as always, takewhat resonates and leave what
(27:58):
doesn't.
And if you have any questionsor comments or concerns or
anything like that, please reachout.
I would love to chat with you.
Hit subscribe to know when thenext episodes come out.
And if you're feeling generous,please leave a review.
(28:20):
Reviews help other like mindedfolks find their way to this
resource.
If something you heard todaybrought a smile to your face or
a spark to your heart and you'dlike to connect with me, there
are a few ways to do that.
One is my newsletter, where Iput most of my time and energy.
(28:41):
When I'm not working withclients or with my family or
working on this podcast Sorry,social media.
The newsletter is a mix of reallife stories, tips and tricks
and, of course, updates onwhat's happening with the
podcast.
Whenever something's going onwith me or in my business, it
(29:01):
always comes out there first.
Another resource that I have foryou is my guide to doing work
differently.
This guide takes you throughfour inquiries into how you can
build a more sustainable andequitable work environment for
yourself and your team.
It's a great place if you'relooking for somewhere to get
(29:24):
started.
Last, if you've got a burningquestion, a comment or a
situation you'd like my eyes on,you can email me.
All those links are in the shownotes.
Take care, brave soul, catchyou next time.
The hearth is for you if you're a business leader
with a team.
Here we have conversationsabout how to keep growing.
When you feel you've reachedyour capacity, when what you're
doing is working but you'restarting to see the cracks, when
there's a gap between whereyou're at now and where you want
(00:26):
to be, here we find ways totransition through the struggle
of survival toward creating athriving business that supports
you and your team as wholehumans.
Your host is me, candaceElliott.
I'm a business strategist andmentor who specializes in
(00:49):
working with business owners whoare going through periods of
growth.
Especially when you're addingmore people to your team, the
practices and systems thatworked when your team was
smaller just don't seem to fitanymore, and when you're caught
in stress and reaction, it'stough to reimagine the way that
(01:14):
you created your world of work,both your own personal one and
the one that you created forothers.
I help people align theirvalues and business practices to
build practical, sustainable,thriving work ecosystems and no,
(01:35):
this isn't just some workutopia talk.
To do this, I bring forward mydecade-long professional
background in human resourcesand organizational development,
working with growing businessesacross many sectors, and my
decades-long search for meaningand wholeness, which includes
(01:59):
researching the history of workand how it came to be what it is
today, practicing atrauma-informed approach to
business and integrating work,life and spirituality into a
meaningful whole.
Let's take this journeytogether, hello, hello, welcome
(02:27):
to this episode of the Hearthwhere we're going to talk about
normalizing mental healthconversations at work.
So I'm going to start out bytelling you my own story of
mental health and work, and thenI'm going to share with you
(02:48):
some research that I found veryfascinating and just some
practical kind of ways to dothis.
So first a story.
I definitely grew up with thework harder, faster, more like
(03:10):
mentality.
I have a grandfather, rayElliott, who was in the military
during World War II and then hereceived the GI Bill, was able
to build a house and start aconstruction company and worked
(03:32):
very hard.
He built nut packing houses, hebuilt apartment buildings, he
purchased apartment buildings,he had an almond orchard, he
owned an oil field.
He my family to this day owns acabin in the Sierra Nevada
mountains which was purchased bymy grandparents.
(03:53):
And so there is this narrativethat was passed from that
generation to my parents'generation.
My mother's father was aprisoner of war during World War
II.
He was interned in Japan, wasextremely emaciated when he came
(04:16):
out of the internment camp andwas saved by the Red Cross the
US Red Cross, which is how hecame from.
They were Dutch colonizersliving in Indonesia.
He was saved by the Red Crossand brought to Australia where
he learned English and got anengineering degree.
(04:38):
He built the house that hisfamily my family lived in there
and then came to Chicago andworked for Harza Engineering and
built hydroelectric dams allover the world.
So from both sides of my familyto my parents is this narrative
(05:00):
of like work hard, you canalways do more If you think you
have it bad.
Just think about what we had togo through in this expectation
of success and working hard.
Right, my parents were the lastof the baby boomers becoming
(05:22):
adults in the 80s, right?
And so there's this corporatementality working very long
hours.
My mom actually found a reallyunique way of.
She became a graphic designerand was able to find part-time
(05:45):
work so that she could stilltake care of me and my sister
and do a lot of the child's careresponsibilities, at least
during the week.
While my dad had really longhours, I remember when I was a
kid him traveling like threehours or more a day to and from
(06:09):
work for different projects thathe was working on, and he is
still, to this day, aconstruction project manager,
and so I grew up with this asthe model of what work is right.
It's like you find a professionand you get hired by a company
and you do this job and youpretty much do similar jobs,
(06:33):
working your way up in a careerladder for your entire life, and
that's like that didn't quitehappen for me.
I graduated from college in 2008, right in the middle of the
recession, and you probably, ifyou've listened to the last
season of the Hearth, you'veprobably heard some of this
(06:57):
story.
There's an episode that'scalled Candice's Story.
It goes into much more detailthan I'm talking about right now
because I'm really bringingthis relating all of this to
mental health and the workplace,but so I like tried a lot of
different things throughout my20s.
I was trying to figure out likeI went to school for
(07:20):
archaeology or for anthropologyand philosophy.
I knew that I didn't want to dothat.
I didn't want to go to do amaster's degree right away, so I
got a teaching certificate andI taught English as a second
language because I had a friendwho was doing it and it just
seemed like sort of a shoe injob, you know, which was good,
(07:44):
because the recession happenedand so I needed like work.
I needed reliable work where Iwasn't going to get fired from
my job and then be unable tosupport myself.
Through a series of events, Icame to human resources and I
(08:07):
had had a lot of instability.
That happened in my life duringmy 20s.
There were some very difficultpersonal choices that I had to
make which were traumatic.
I now can go back and see them.
You know, like I can see the methat is 25, that's trying to
like control everything to beable to survive in the world and
(08:34):
not live in poverty and to likescrape and struggle and get
like to a better position in theworld, and I can see how that
is a protective mechanism that Ibuilt because of the
uncertainty that I wasstruggling throughout that time
and also how that has hadunintentional negative effects
(08:58):
since, like such as keeping mein that sort of survival mindset
past the time when I had reallygotten out of the survival mode
.
How does that really, as aworking professional, when I got
to, I think I was around 30.
(09:19):
I had this experience of burnoutand it was very intense.
There was, like this specific,gradually increased, you know,
over time till there was thislike moment of crisis, and what
happened in that moment is thatI was like hyperventilating, I
(09:42):
was like breathing really fast.
I couldn't control my breathing, I was like crying.
I couldn't, like you know, keepmyself from feeling a whole
range of mostly very difficultemotions of like panic and
stress and anger and sorrow andall of these things wrapped up
(10:07):
together.
And I knew that like somethingwas happening with me, with my
mental health, psychologically,like something was happening and
I didn't feel like I had thetools to be able to deal with it
.
Like I have meditated for along time, I've done yoga for a
(10:30):
long time, I have, like you know, I know a lot.
I know I knew at that time abit about mental health, but I
knew enough that what washappening then was beyond what I
could fix on my own.
Like it wasn't like a mindsetthing, right, it wasn't like I
(10:51):
needed to change my mindsetabout it.
It was like I needed to do somedeep, real work into how I
became an adult in order to likefigure out how to move forward.
But at the time I was sent to apsychiatrist and the
psychiatrist told me, like, thisis normal, it happens all the
(11:12):
time, you know, people don't?
It's not a panic attack,because I went in and I was like
I had I think I had a panic,panic attack and this
psychiatrist is, like you didn'thave a panic attack, like, what
, like, what else can you sayabout it?
Let's break it down into likethe pieces that it was.
It's that you were crying, thatyou were breathing a lot, that
(11:33):
you, you know, were shaking inthe car, that you like, like
couldn't get yourself togetherfor hours, but that's not a
panic attack.
I'm laughing now looking back,because it's just interesting
how other people, especiallymental health professionals, can
(11:55):
label or unlabel experiences inways that are and are not
helpful.
But I knew that this was not ahelpful person for me to be
talking to, because I couldn't Imean, I just couldn't keep
doing what I was doing.
(12:17):
At the same time, I had a verystrong pain that happened in the
right side of my neck.
It was like a muscle spasm andit did not go away for weeks,
and so there was this mental aswell as this like physical
manifestation of stress.
Really, that's what it was.
That was the catalyst forstarting my company, for, you
(12:43):
know, working with businessowners on creating workplaces
where people can thrive, wherepeople are really supported in
the fullness of their humanityat work, and for me, this
combination of you know, thephysical and mental health and
(13:04):
burnout and the structures thatwe just assume have to be the
way that work is.
It's just.
It can be a different way.
And so for the past few months,I've, you know, been on this
deep dive of looking intoresearch around health and the
(13:24):
workplace and employees, and allof that.
An interesting study that Ifound was done by the US Chamber
of Commerce and VeteransAffairs, specifically hiring our
heroes, and they looked intomental health and work and they
(13:46):
actually created a toolkitthat'll link, that has to do
with supporting mental health inthe workplace, and they found
that 80% of Americans areexpected to face a mental health
challenge in their lifetime.
And I mean I feel like 80, Idon't know.
(14:07):
I feel like 100% of people aregoing to face a mental health
challenge of some kind in theirlifetime.
I can get why they're only at80, but really I mean everyone
goes through times when theyhave more or less capacity.
Everyone is going to losesomeone who's close to them.
You know, everyone is going togo through some kind of really
(14:31):
difficult decision-makingprocess, and the point, though,
is that, you know, with thishigh number, is that these
challenges have to be normalized, like we can't stigmatize
people because they're havingmental health challenges.
We have to recognize thatmental health is a part of our
(14:54):
health in the way that ourphysical health is.
It's not like we I mean, forthe most part, I don't think
people shame people if theybreak a leg right, but there is
shame that people experience ifthey're having difficult mental
health challenges, or and thenalso if people are
(15:14):
neurodivergent, which is notsomething I'm really talking
about today, but I think is apart of the conversation too.
Within this kind of world ofmental health, there are some
costs that came out of thisstudy that are huge.
(15:35):
Like because mental healthissues are so common and because
they happen so often, they'revery expensive.
Depression and anxiety aloneare estimated to cost the
American economy $210 billion onan annual basis.
(15:58):
That's through direct andindirect costs.
So direct costs are likemedical expenses.
Indirect costs are like whathappens with businesses, so
absenteeism, lost productivity,lost earning potential and these
kinds of things.
Another sort of related cost isalcohol and substance abuse,
(16:22):
which is estimated to costanother $400 billion, and this
is annually, every single year.
Some other kind of likestatistics in this area just to
emphasize how important itreally is is that 20% of
(16:45):
Americans, at the time of thisstudy, had a reported mental
health condition, and that'sreported.
There's like a whole slew ofpeople who are not reporting
their mental health condition,so just one out of five people
has a reported mental healthcondition.
(17:06):
And then another importantstatistic because it is related
to mental health and then alsoto loneliness is that there has
been a 30% increase in suicidein the US in the last 25 years.
It's the 10th leading cause ofdeath in our country and it's
actually the second leadingcause of death for youth between
(17:29):
15 and 24 years old, and in mylife, the time when I was most
at risk for suicide was duringthose ages between 15 and 24.
Along with this sort ofunderstanding of how prevalent
(17:49):
the issue is, most employeeswill not seek care for mental
health issues or talk about themin the workplace because of the
stigma that there is againstthem.
It's actually eight out of 10employees will not seek care,
and so what does that stigmalook like?
So one is just generally howpeople talk about mental health.
(18:17):
So if the narrative is like wework really long hours, we just
get it and we make it happen, welike it doesn't matter what's
going on in your life, like youjust gotta like pull yourself up
by the bootstraps and get herdone, there's not a lot of
(18:42):
sympathy for mental healthchallenges that are coming up or
physical health challenges thatare coming up, because what
happens in that work environment?
When there is an issue let'sjust say someone needs to have a
surgery, right, and because theway that you have created the
business is to always be atcapacity, like there is no more
(19:06):
capacity to do any more work,then there is no way to deal
with the needs of this employeewho maybe they have to have
heart surgery, right, and sobecause there's no capacity,
there is pressure on theorganization and the employee to
(19:27):
deal with this situation and itbecomes more of a problem and
it becomes more stressful foreveryone and it's already a
stressful thing, right.
Whereas if you have anotherkind of a work environment where
you're checking in witheverybody every week to see how
(19:49):
everybody's doing capacity-wise,to find out on a red, yellow,
green spectrum how everybody'sdoing.
You can track how much or howlittle people have available to
deal with things and how muchpeople are going through and how
(20:11):
much what's happening outsideof work is affecting work or how
much work is affecting what'soutside of work.
And so this is like oneimportant thing to do is to
normalize talking about mentalhealth and capacity is one way
to do that.
Capacity meaning what do I havethe ability to take on right
(20:33):
now?
Like, do I have the capacityfor the job that I have in front
of me?
Maybe I don't.
Maybe I have only capacity fora sliver of the job that is in
front of me right now because ofwhat's happening in my life.
And if I can focus really wellon this sliver and deal with all
the things that are happeningin my life, I will be able at
(20:55):
some point to take on more.
But it's understanding thatpeople's capacity it expands and
it contracts and it expands andit contracts.
And if you're able to expandand contract with the person and
keep them engaged in the workthrough their difficulties and
(21:18):
support them, then you'll beable to keep them for the long
term, you know, and they'll knowthat they're supported by you,
respected, trusted, that you'reable to work with them through
things that happen in theirlives.
And yeah, I mean in the shortrun, when the person is having
their difficulties, like you'renot going to get as much
(21:39):
productivity, but over the longrun of the lifetime of the
person working with you, youwill get more.
So I said there are two formsof this.
So one is how the organizationnormalizes mental health
conversations.
The other is the employees'comfortability to participate in
(22:04):
those conversations and knowingthat they will be treated well
and still, you know, perceivedas a part of the team and
perceived well through thoseconversations, is essential.
So the more that this is thecase, the more likely it is that
(22:26):
someone is going to seek careor treatment.
If someone is, like, fearful oflosing their job or a promotion
opportunity or, you know, ifthere's kind of like this
cutthroat, like work dynamicgoing on of like performer or
die, then people are not goingto talk about what's happening
(22:49):
with them in their mental health.
And then what happens is, let'ssay, I'm going through
something very difficult and Ican't talk about it at work
because I think I'm going tolose my job.
If I talk about it or nobodycares, there isn't a way to have
(23:09):
this conversation with thepeople that I work with, then
I'm going to start to feelresentful about my time at work.
This is one way I could go.
I could start to feel resentfulabout just going to work.
Then maybe I'm going to startlooking at my pay and be like,
oh, is this even worth my time?
Like, why should I be here ifI'm only getting this much per
(23:30):
hour of my work?
Like what if I just gosomewhere else where there's an
easier job and do that instead?
So then this conversationstarts happening and then the
person really starts to checkout.
So instead of adjusting thework to fit the needs of the
(23:51):
employee so that you candecrease the capacity that's
needed for the person to do thejob while they're going through
a difficult time, they're goingto do it for themselves and
you're not going to get the kindof productivity that you would
think that you would need.
And instead of retaining themand keeping them through the
difficult time, you're justgoing to lose them Because it's
(24:14):
going to create argument andconflict and tension.
What are some steps that you cantake?
I mean, we've already talkedabout having some kind of
check-in like a way where eitheryour whole team or you could do
it department by department.
Just kind of talks about.
(24:37):
You know, it may not be mentalhealth.
You don't have to say likelet's talk about your mental
health everyone together,because that kind of gets into a
weird territory.
But you can talk about capacity, like what is your capacity
this week?
Are you feeling good?
Like, are you feeling solid onyou know, your plan?
Do you feel like you could takeon a little bit extra?
(24:59):
Are you feeling like you'regood on your plan but there's no
way you could bring on anymore?
Are you feeling like, oh mygosh, this is too much, I can't
possibly.
What do we do?
And those are good kind ofmarkers to know with your team
on a week by week basis, likehow it's going.
It can also bring up questionsthat they have about their work
(25:24):
where they need help, kind ofgetting to the next step.
So that's something to thinkabout.
Prioritizing your own mentalhealth is something else.
So thinking about, like, whatare the ways that you can
(25:45):
demonstrate that mental healthis a priority in the way that
you are showing up in your work?
It could be by expressingcertain boundaries around time
or around types of work.
It could be talking about goingto see your therapist.
(26:06):
If you do that, I went to see atherapist after I had this
burnout situation Cindy Lane shewas on the podcast last season
she fascinating episode aboutinternal family systems, if you
want to go into that.
(26:27):
She helped me to understandpsychologically what was
happening with my mind and thestories that I had created in
order to survive and how thosestories were not actually
helping me.
That has led to all differentkinds of work over the years on
(26:49):
mental health and psychology andreally coming to a sense of
belonging, and then alsospirituality as well.
So, prioritizing your own mentalhealth and finding ways to show
it, not like in a you know, I'mgoing to show you how I
prioritize my mental health kindof a way, but living it out in
(27:13):
a way so that people can see it,and then you can always bring
on support to help.
You know, if you're reallygoing through a difficult time
with your company and you'reunsure how to get out of it, my
friend Kat Lee is a wonderfulresource, and then I have other
(27:35):
resources that I can give to youas well.
So if that's happening for you,reach out and we can find ways
to support you and your team.
Well, thank you so much forjoining me for this little talk
about mental health and theworkplace.
And you know, as always, takewhat resonates and leave what
(27:58):
doesn't.
And if you have any questionsor comments or concerns or
anything like that, please reachout.
I would love to chat with you.
Hit subscribe to know when thenext episodes come out.
And if you're feeling generous,please leave a review.
(28:20):
Reviews help other like mindedfolks find their way to this
resource.
If something you heard todaybrought a smile to your face or
a spark to your heart and you'dlike to connect with me, there
are a few ways to do that.
One is my newsletter, where Iput most of my time and energy.
(28:41):
When I'm not working withclients or with my family or
working on this podcast Sorry,social media.
The newsletter is a mix of reallife stories, tips and tricks
and, of course, updates onwhat's happening with the
podcast.
Whenever something's going onwith me or in my business, it
(29:01):
always comes out there first.
Another resource that I have foryou is my guide to doing work
differently.
This guide takes you throughfour inquiries into how you can
build a more sustainable andequitable work environment for
yourself and your team.
It's a great place if you'relooking for somewhere to get
(29:24):
started.
Last, if you've got a burningquestion, a comment or a
situation you'd like my eyes on,you can email me.
All those links are in the shownotes.
Take care, brave soul, catchyou next time.
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