October 26, 2023 • 49 mins
In today's episode with Rachael Cook, the head of CEO Collective, we dive deep into marrying personal values with our business decisions.
Rachael Shares with us her five definitions of success, emphasizing the crucial role of understanding what your business needs to do for you as the owner. We discuss the fundamental role of health, relationships, and creativity in fostering both personal and business growth.
As we navigate through economic uncertainty, Rachel offers valuable insights on creating and maintaining meaningful business relationships. Further, she shares strategies for clear communication, setting boundaries, and voicing our opinions in tricky conversations.
I hope you enjoy our conversation.
The CEO Collective
If something you heard today brought a smile to your face or a spark to your heart, and you’d like to connect with me, here are a few ways you can do that.
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Another resource that I have for you is my Guide to Doing Work Differently. The guide takes you through four inquiries into how you can build a more sustainable and equitable work environment for yourself and your team. It's a great place to start.
Last, if you’ve got a burning question, a comment, or a situation you’d like my eyes on, you can email me at candice@fortressandflourish.com.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
The hearth is for you if you're a business leader
with a team.
Here we have conversationsabout how to keep growing.
When you feel you've reachedyour capacity, when what you're
doing is working but you'restarting to see the cracks, when
there's a gap between whereyou're at now and where you want
(00:26):
to be, here we find ways totransition through the struggle
of survival toward creating athriving business that supports
you and your team as wholehumans.
Your host is me, candaceElliott.
I'm a business strategist andmentor who specializes in
(00:49):
working with business owners whoare going through periods of
growth.
Especially when you're addingmore people to your team, the
practices and systems thatworked when your team was
smaller just don't seem to fitanymore, and when you're caught
in stress and reaction, it'stough to reimagine the way that
(01:14):
you created your world of work,both your own personal one and
the one that you created forothers.
I help people align theirvalues and business practices to
build practical, sustainable,thriving work ecosystems and no,
(01:35):
this isn't just some workutopia talk.
To do this, I bring forward mydecade-long professional
background in human resourcesand organizational development,
working with growing businessesacross many sectors, and my
decades-long search for meaningand wholeness, which includes
(01:59):
researching the history of workand how it came to be what it is
today, practicing atrauma-informed approach to
business and integrating work,life and spirituality into a
meaningful whole.
Let's take this journey together.
Welcome to the hearth-bravesouls.
(02:27):
I'm so happy that you are back.
Today.
I'm sharing with you aconversation that I had with
Rachel Cook.
Rachel heads up the CEOcollective, where she helps
entrepreneurs who are ready tosustainably scale their
(02:47):
businesses.
The conversation that we havetoday is really focusing on
values and how we define ourvalues and then make decisions
around them as business ownersand integrating them into the
all different kinds of thingsthat we do.
So here's our conversation.
(03:07):
Rachel, thank you so much forjoining me on the hearth today.
I really appreciate you beinghere.
Speaker 2 (03:15):
I'm so excited we could make this happen and also
have you on my show, so it'sbeen so much fun.
Speaker 1 (03:22):
Yeah, yeah, I love the swap, so would you mind just
starting out by telling us yourstory.
How did you get to where youare today?
Speaker 2 (03:32):
So, like many oldest daughters, who is also a type A
overachiever and perfectionist,I did what I was supposed to do
and got multiple degrees, gotrecruited into my quote unquote
dream job in corporate doingconsulting, and proceeded to
very quickly burn out.
Within a couple years I washaving severe health problems,
(03:56):
to the point where I had to takea short term leave of absence.
I took disability for threemonths and tried to figure out
what am I doing, because Irealized I couldn't keep doing
what I was doing.
I couldn't keep up with thehustle and grind pace that is
the consulting world, and anyonewho has worked in consulting
has worked in finance.
Like there's some industrieswhere they literally grind
(04:19):
people down in the first coupleyears.
You know any of my friends whohave gone into consulting,
finance or big law.
They've all had the sameexperience and then they all
leave at some point.
I left and started this businessas the yogipreneur, and it
happened accidentally, becauseat that point I mean I was not
(04:40):
well, I didn't know what Iwanted to do, because I realized
the dream I had been sold wasnot really a dream, it was kind
of a nightmare, and so I wascrying on a yoga mat, as you do
when you take three monthsmedical leave of absence.
And my yoga teacher said to mebecause we had become good
friends she was like I know youdon't want to go back, but my
(05:01):
studio is kind of struggling.
Could you help me with that?
Could you maybe, you know, giveme some ideas or some pointers?
And because I have two degreesin entrepreneurship and small
business management and I'vebeen working in the world of
consulting, like it was like alight bulb moment for me when I
realized she did not havesomeone to go to who understood
business.
(05:21):
She had an accountant, she hada lawyer, but no one who
understood how to do marketing,how to do sales, how to put
together projections for astudio like hers.
Like there were so many thingsshe didn't know and she didn't
know.
She didn't know them, and atthe time this was 2008, there
just wasn't any place to go.
So it was a light bulb momentfor me when I realized, oh, I
(05:43):
had been working with smallbusinesses.
But there are these micro,owner operated businesses.
We would maybe call them soloprinters now is the trendy word,
but back then it was like owneroperated or non employee
businesses and so that was alight bulb moment for me and
that's how I started wasliterally because my yoga
(06:04):
teacher is like can you help me?
Because that community is sosmall.
What tends to happen if youstart in a small niche is people
start to talk about it.
So she told other teachers, shetold other friends.
I made a website for the Yogiprinter and it started to really
grow organically, first by wordof mouth and referrals and then
(06:25):
because I started activelymarketing and growing.
And so over the last 15 yearsit's pivoted a couple times from
the Yogi printer to just RachelCook and now to the CEO
collective, mainly because Ijust keep listening to my
clients.
This has been a very cocreative process for me.
I never started 15 years agothinking it would be the CEO
(06:47):
collective and the businesswould be the shape and form it
is today.
But it has gotten to this pointbecause I'm always responding
to the needs of the clients thatI'm serving.
Speaker 1 (06:58):
Yeah, I think that's such an interesting and
wonderful way to grow a businessis really by looking at the
clients.
What are my clients saying tome?
What do they need?
What can I create that willhelp them the most?
And then that tends to bringmore people kind of into the
orbit.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
Absolutely, and the thing that I always tell people.
Like one, I had a lot ofprivileges starting my business
first.
I will absolutely say that,like we at the time did not have
children, I did not have anyresponsibilities, I had no
student loans to pay.
In fact, my husband and I solda car and we downsized from a
(07:39):
town home to like a smallerapartment so that I could take
the sleep without feeling anyfinancial pressure.
That's a huge privilege, andthat was also when I was in my
20s.
If I was doing it again today,in my 40s, it would look very
different, because now I havethree kids, I have a mortgage, I
have a mom I'm caring for andhave to support.
(08:00):
There's a lot of other thingsthat are happening in my life
that would have completelychanged that whole story and I
think it's important toacknowledge that.
Also.
I think timing is a thing.
When I started in this world, itwas 2008.
It was in a recession.
I started my business in thelast big recession and there was
(08:23):
no like social media.
There was no real onlinemarketing.
There were only a handful ofpeople talking to a very small
niche audience the yoga worldand getting on the ground floor
of some of these things thathave grown exponentially.
I just I wrote a wave and Iwill not act like it was all me.
There were certain elementsthat were at play.
(08:47):
The yoga industry was booming.
I had spent some time workingwith Lou Lemon Athletica when
they were coming to the UnitedStates, so I had a lot of
connections to that particularbig company and I was able to
leverage that connection.
I was able to start on socialmedia.
When social media was starting,you couldn't get that kind of
(09:10):
reach and organic trafficanymore.
That's just not how it is.
So there's a lot of things thatkind of helped me get going
that are very different than howI would recommend anybody start
right now.
But the one thing I wouldencourage everyone to think
about is who you knowrelationships.
It is not a meritocracy.
Business is not a meritocracyat all.
(09:30):
It is not about how hard youwork or else the hardest worker
who's out there.
You know doing hard labor wouldbe getting paid the most.
It is definitely about theconnections that you have and
it's also about seeingopportunities, untapped
opportunities and, for me,unserved audiences.
If there's an unserved audience, that niche that has a lot of
(09:53):
growth potential that's soincredibly valuable to tap into
something right as it's gettingvery popular and when you think
about growing a business that issuccessful.
Speaker 1 (10:04):
I think that when we look at a lot of the traditional
business advice, there's profitfirst model and then there's
grow at all costs kind of model,and I think that a lot of newer
business owners kind of fallinto having one of those as the
way that they're definingwhether or not they're
successful.
(10:25):
But I'm curious, from yourexperience in growing your own
company and also in working withso many CEOs, what are some
other more sustainable measuresof success?
Speaker 2 (10:37):
I think capitalism has taught us that growth is the
only way forward, and you'llhear a lot of people in the
business space say, if you'renot growing, you're dying, and
I'm just like.
That is not necessarily true,because if you are owning your
own small business, you have100% control over how big that
business is and what thatbusiness is going to look like.
(10:59):
That success for you might lookvery different from what I
would define success or whatsomeone else would define
success as.
So I think that's the firstthing I always start with what
is your definition of success?
Can you give me a definition ofsuccess that is not tied to how
much money you make, butinstead you can tell me what is
your definition of success foryour life and lifestyle,
(11:21):
including when you work, howoften you work, who you're
working with, including whattime you get up in the morning
or time you go to bed.
What does a day in your lifelook like, a week in your life
look like?
What are you experiencing dayin and day out?
If you know what that is?
You have solved so many issuesand given us some great
(11:41):
information for how to createthe right size business for you.
I think another definition ofsuccess, especially as someone
with chronic health problems, isyour health and well-being.
And here I am not talking aboutmaking a diet plan or a workout
plan.
I am talking about makingyourself well mentally and
(12:02):
physically, making sure that youhave the energy to do the
things that you want to do, bothin your work and in your life.
So what is your definition ofsuccess and health and wellness
look like?
For me, it's really reallysimple stuff.
It's like I'm drinking water,I'm eating really healthy foods
that make me feel good, I'mmoving my body by going on a
(12:24):
walk and then tracking my stepsthrough the day to make sure I'm
moving enough.
I'm seeing like I just saw mychiropractor and I see an
acupuncturist, like that's whatmy health and well-being looks
like.
And those things are requiredbecause they help me show up the
way I want to show up in mylife and in my business.
Then I want you to look at yourrelationships.
I think this is also overlooked.
(12:45):
There's a lot of people who keepsaying well, I'll make time for
that when I fill in the blankwith whatever reason.
Often I'll make time for thatwhen it gets less busy.
So if you've found yourselfsaying I'll make time for that
when it gets less busy.
I'll have a date night with myspouse when things get less busy
.
I'll plan a vacation whenthings get less busy.
(13:07):
I will take a day off whenthings get less busy, like
they're never going to get lessbusy.
So stop using that excuse and weneed to actually decide what
relationships are important andhow are we prioritizing them.
Get clear on that, because ifyou have relationships in your
life that you want to put timeand energy into, we need to know
(13:29):
what that actually means.
We don't want to just leave itsuper vague.
We want it to be like oh, thisis what we're doing.
We're having a weekly datenight, going away on a honeymoon
on our anniversary every year.
We're taking each kid outseparately for a mom and me date
.
Those are the types of thingsthat I do every single month and
I know what my definition ofsuccess for those relationships
look like.
It's very specific things thatI know are important and because
(13:54):
I have that and I know who mytop, most important people are,
my most important relationshipsare, I can have so much clarity.
Again, this is all about givingyourself clarity on what you
will require this business toallow you to do so once you have
your life, your lifestyle, yourhealth, well-being, your
(14:14):
relationships.
The next thing I look at iscreativity, and I think this is
so crucially important because alot of people, especially
adults, especially mothers orcaregivers and no surprise, a
lot of women start businessesbecause they are mothers or
(14:34):
caregivers.
There's something like 35% ofsmall business owners that are
women are mothers of school-agedchildren and another 30-ish
percent are caregivers to anelder adult.
There's a lot of overlap theretoo.
So maybe you're like me and youboth have children at home and
a parent who needs help.
So we need an outlet to takecare of ourselves and nurture
(15:00):
our own creativity.
You'll be amazed what will comeout of finding an outlet for
yourself, having a hobby again.
It can be really simple thingsthat you like to do for
creativity.
I have learned I love Legos.
I have every one of the newLego sets.
They are making adult Legos,apparently.
Adults buying Legos is one ofthe fastest growing segments for
(15:22):
their growth right now.
That's hilarious, yeah, and itmakes sense Because I'm out
there.
I bought four sets of Legos inthe last six months and it's one
of those things where it mightseem silly and old me, would
have been like this is stupid,this is a kid thing.
But now I'm like, no, this is acreative thing, this is working
with your hands.
There's a lot of research outthere about the importance of
(15:44):
creativity in your life theimportance of creativity and
discharging stress and avoidingburnout and creating connection
If you're finding a hobby thatinvolves other people or
something you can connect around.
I have a friend who goes andtakes a pottery class once a
week.
How cool is that?
How many things have you everwanted to learn how to do and
(16:06):
you just never did because youcouldn't monetize it?
So get a hobby, do somethingcreative.
What does that look like?
What do you wish you could dothat you never made time for?
And then the final thing I thinkabout is your own personal
growth and spirituality, so yourconnection to self and
something bigger than you.
However you define that, I don'tcare how you define that, but I
(16:28):
do think every human has thispull to feel connected to
something bigger than them andalso needs to have a connection
to themself.
So what does that look like foryou?
Is that a mindfulness practice?
Is that participating in achurch or another organized
religion or practice?
(16:49):
There's a million differentthings that could be, but if you
don't have clarity in what thatlooks like for you and what's
going to keep filling your cupand really helping you feel like
you're not alone in this world,if you don't have something,
then again you'll get depletedreally fast.
So those are the top fivedefinitions of success I put out
(17:10):
there, because now we have somuch more information about you,
the owner of this business, andwhat you need this business to
do for you.
Not what you need to do for thebusiness, not what you need to
do for anybody else, but whatyou need it to do for you, and
that, to me, is the foundationof making your business work for
(17:31):
you.
Speaker 1 (17:33):
Yeah, I just love this list because it isn't what
we think about when we thinkabout business, but it is what
we think about when we considerthe CEO as a person and what a
person needs in order to befulfilled in life.
Speaker 2 (17:50):
We're human, we have human needs and the best part is
and you'll love this becauseyou're the HR expert but when
you, as the owner, have thisperspective, you humanize
everything for the rest of yourteam, for your clients.
Like that does trickle down alot when you prioritize, let's
say, your health and well-beingand you're open about it and
(18:13):
you're sharing with people whatyou're doing.
You'll be amazed how suddenlythat'll change the culture for
people around you, becausethey're watching you walk in
with your water bottle orsuddenly everybody has an aura
ring, those things rub off, orpeople are taking time to go to
therapy and yeah, exactly thosethings rub off in a big way,
(18:35):
because that's to me, that'swhat real leadership is, that's
you showing up as an actualhuman being and giving everybody
permission to do the same thing.
Speaker 1 (18:44):
And one of the foundational things that you do
with CEOs is work on values, andI'm curious how you define a
value or how you get to thenaming of the values.
Speaker 2 (19:00):
Yeah.
So I'm going to give a hugeshout out to Erica Corday and
India Jackson of Pause on thePlay.
I had done a lot of differenttypes of values exercises and it
wasn't until they came up withthis process they called the
from implicit to explicitprocess.
That was so transformationalfor me Because I think in the
(19:25):
past a lot of exercises I hadseen around values were kind of
like here's a word bank of a lotof values, circle five and
ta-da, now you have yourcorporate values.
But it didn't mean anything.
And because it didn't meananything, it didn't work.
It didn't give us anything wecould dig into.
So going through this processwas really about taking the
(19:49):
values you have as a person, butalso the values you're creating
in your company, and takingthem from being implicit to
everybody kind of knows thisalready to actually formalizing
them.
And for me that process was sotransformational.
I keep sending everybody backto that experience Because it
wasn't about a list of keywords,it was about actually Defining
(20:12):
those for yourself and andcoming up with your own language
.
And it's so funny because a lotof the language Ended up being
things that I just kept sayingover and over and over again.
So our first one is life beforebusiness, and that is first for
a reason, because that was thePrimary value I had when I
started my business was so thatI could have a life, but it's
(20:32):
also the primary value for a lotof our clients.
When they come to us, they wantand need to have time for their
life Before business, likethey're again, it's about
prioritizing their needs as ahuman Over the business.
So the business doesn't workfor them if it's business before
life, which unfortunately hasbeen the way for a lot of
(20:52):
businesses in the past.
Speaker 1 (20:55):
What are the other values that you have in your
business?
Speaker 2 (21:00):
About page of our website and it's interesting
because I've actually changedsome of the language around them
.
Erica is also my diversity,equity and inclusion coach and
really helping me thinkingthrough a lot of language
choices.
So just know that y'all, likeyou, can change the language as
you go.
So another one is people first,all about prioritizing people
(21:20):
over profits, about buildingrelationships Clear as kind.
I stole that one from BernayBrown.
I just loved it so much becauseI think women Historically
women have been programmed to benice and and being nice is
killing us like literally.
It is causing so much pain inthe world and it is actively
(21:45):
causing harm to a lot of people,a lot of Different groups of
people.
So clear as kind like how canwe have clear, kind
Communication?
That includes being able togive and receive feedback.
That includes strong boundaries.
That includes making sure Ihave found the boundaries thing
is the most important thing andto me, clear as kind is a huge
(22:10):
part of that.
Keep it simple and strategic isJust kind of one of my personal
mottos for how I think aboutbusiness.
I always want it.
I want to do the least amountpossible with the biggest result
.
I don't want to do the mostamount possible with the
littlest result.
So if you can't keep it simpleand strategic, you're gonna
spend a lot of time working, butyou might not get the results
(22:32):
you would if you focused on theessential few versus the trivial
.
Many Aim for excellence.
Excellence is an important wordfor me because Another thing I
know about women is a lot of ushave this perfectionism issue
when if something's not perfect,we won't do it, we won't share
(22:53):
it, we won't put it out there.
But perfectionism is reallyagain actively causing harm to a
lot of us.
It makes women play small andhold themselves back.
In so many ways, excellence isdifferent from perfection.
Excellence is the idea that, yes, you want to Do the highest
level you can, but alsoExcellence is about knowing
(23:16):
there's improvement all the time, so you can be excellent and
still have room for improvement,and that's more realistic to me
than you have to be perfect allthe time.
There's three more.
I'll just run them real quickembrace ownership, taking
responsibility for our actionsand our roles, taking initiative
, taking imperfect action, andthen the final is in women we
(23:37):
trust, and this is the one thatI changed the language on,
because Originally I wrote thefuture is female, and then I
decided to change that, mainlybecause there has been, you know
, obviously a huge conversation,cultural conversation on gender
identity and I wanted to try tobe a little bit more clear
(23:58):
about we're here to support allwomen.
If you are someone whoidentifies as a woman, we we are
here to support you.
If you are a black woman,indigenous woman, a Asian
American woman, we are here tosupport all women in business.
Speaker 1 (24:16):
This is such a clearly defined, robust list of
values and I'm curious how, inyour own company, they have
played a part in yourdecision-making.
Speaker 2 (24:28):
Some of the decisions that we made.
Like I do better givingconcrete examples.
So, on the the people.
First, one helps us a lot.
We have found that, especiallythe last few years I mean, the
being in business since 2020 hasbeen a wild ride, and I will
just say like sometimes, beingon this end, I work with so many
(24:49):
business owners, I'm talking tothem and I'm also often the
only space they have toDischarge a lot of emotion,
which means now I am on thereceiving end of a lot of
emotion and which can bechallenging.
But you know, we decided tochange some policies internally
because and I think this happensfor a lot of people like you
(25:12):
start putting together policiesor terms and services and
agreements based on kind of thestatus quo, like this is the
standard that most people have,but the the Pandemic is one of
the first times where I go.
This is not fair for somepeople.
There are some people andeverybody's needs are different,
but there were some people whothey desperately needed our
support and we had the containerof support they needed, but at
(25:36):
the same time, they were beingimpacted financially so much
that they needed support theretoo, and so we decided to make a
policy where they could take athree month pause, and this
allowed us to still have thecontainer to give them support,
but then we were giving them away to take care of themselves
first and that has become kindof an ongoing thing.
(25:59):
Like now, we have differentterms for different things.
Like, if you are having a babywe've had lots of babies Cool,
we have a maternity leave.
You will pause you for threemonths.
You had a death in the family.
We'll give you the bereavementleave, like we have listed out
now.
Like now, we'll give peoplepauses in their program so they
don't feel like they're payingfor something that they're not
using because they have a lifeevent Going on, because it's a
(26:21):
long program right.
Speaker 1 (26:23):
It's a year long and Unfortunately, I've been through
with my clients.
Speaker 2 (26:26):
I mean a lot of fun things, like I've been to
weddings, I've been tocelebrations, I've been to
exciting things, but I've alsobeen to funerals and I've also
had people get cancer and I'vealso had a lot of other real
things happen.
And I don't think in that casethat the people first Version of
me would say too bad, yousigned a contract, I don't care
(26:48):
that you're going through chemo,you know what I mean.
Like that just does not fitRight to me.
And there are some people outthere who would say a contract
as a contract, we don't care.
And I'm like well, I think thecontract is there to protect
both of us.
So how do we?
How do we do that?
And that's one that I think Igo back to all the time, like
(27:10):
we're constantly, especially inthe world I'm in, especially
with terms and conditions.
There's a lot of terms andconditions that are really there
because People are trying tokeep their clients, basically.
But we don't have a problemkeeping our clients.
Most of our clients want tostay with us.
They just need flexibility.
Sometimes Maybe they need analternative payment arrangement
(27:32):
one month, or maybe, you know,there's something we can do.
But when people are in activecrisis or there's something
happening, that's when they needme the most.
Like could you imagine and I'msure I mean think about it
You're in an active crisis andyou can't go to see your
therapist, a person who wouldactually help you the most.
Like Not saying that I'm abusiness therapist, because I am
(27:52):
not, but I can help themproblem-solve and get through a
lot of things because I'm notthe one actively in it.
So I want to make sure thatwe're always kind of Navigating
that, because those, thosesituations come up.
We handle them on acase-by-case basis, but we
always try to reassure ourclients that if you're going
through something, really hardto do Is try to reassure our
clients that if you're goingthrough something, we're here.
(28:14):
This is why you hired us is sothat you can have this support
system.
And if it means we need to makesome changes or we need to
press pause or, you know, dosomething a little differently,
let's, let's work together onthat.
Speaker 1 (28:28):
Yeah, so it sounds like really Re-evaluating your
systems on an ongoing basis tomake sure that they're in
alignment with the values thatyou have.
I I actually recently justlooked through my contracts that
I send out and I was like, wow,there's a lot in here.
That is just not true.
I need to pull all of this.
You know, there's likepenalties for non-payment and
(28:50):
different kinds of reallyprotective legal language.
That isn't.
It's not creating the kind ofrelationship that I want to have
with my clients, you know.
Speaker 2 (29:02):
And that's what I realized too, is a lot of the
language that we had in somethings, and there's probably
things that I could even dobetter at changing, because a
lawyer's job is there to protectme right At the end of the day.
I feel like relationships are socrucially important and I value
the relationship more.
Right like that to me.
(29:23):
I'm like if I treat you reallywell and show you that I'm here
to be on your, on your team andin your corner and I'm willing
to work with you through achallenging time.
Now do I still expect like yes,you did sign up for this
program and I do expect you toactually complete the program
and Pay the full fee if weoffered an extended payment plan
or something?
(29:44):
But am I gonna make it anightmare if you're actually
going through something and youneed real support?
No, I think that is veryscarcity mindset.
I think it's also based out of,unfortunately, the industry
that I'm in and the world ofbusiness coaching.
There's a lot of people whomake big promises they can't
(30:05):
follow through on and they haveto write these types of terms in
because there's no other wayfor them to protect their own
interest.
Like their clients aren't veryhappy, and so they need the
legal language to protect them,because they don't know how to
deliver on what they promised.
Speaker 1 (30:19):
I so, when you're working with CEOs that are
building out a business like afull business, creating business
models, what are some of thecomponents of a business model
that are regenerative andsustainable for someone to
(30:43):
create, like I'm thinking youknow systems as part of it, and
then there's products, offers,and then there's themselves.
But how, when you're thinkingabout growth, like big growth,
that happens at certain timeshow do you go into that in a way
that you're not going to fallflat on your face?
Speaker 2 (31:04):
Well, I think one thing is to understand what you,
as the owner, want, becausethere's a million ways we can
scale a business.
So if we just start focusing onwhat we think is the only
scalable way, then often we endup in business models we don't
like and unfortunately, I'veseen this trap and I'm seeing it
actively like right now.
(31:24):
You know the economy isshifting and so people are
making big decisions andchanging up their business
because they're realizing thatwas not working for them.
So it comes back to what do youdo best in the world?
And if you can't be brutallyhonest with yourself about that,
what do you do better thaneveryone else than choosing a
scalable model because so and sosaid, this is the only scalable
(31:45):
model?
I'm hearing that a lot with,like online courses.
I'm hearing a lot of people sayservices aren't scalable.
Bs, bs.
There are tons of services thatare incredibly scalable.
Otherwise, there wouldn't bethe biggest marketing agencies
in the world, there wouldn't behuge consulting firms, there
wouldn't be huge accountingfirms Like those are all
(32:05):
services that are being offered.
It is hugely scalable.
It's just not what a coursecreator who's selling you a
course on creating courses isgoing to tell you is scalable.
So you have to know what youreally want to sign up for,
because what they often don'ttell you in that type of model
which is usually these are thetwo that are being compared in
(32:26):
my world a lot Do I continuewith services and grow more of
an agency style model, or do Igo with all in on the courses
and try to scale that?
What often they don't tell youis the sheer volume of marketing
that goes into a course model.
It is you're going to be afull-time marketer, meaning all
(32:49):
the time you are working in yourbusiness is on marketing.
It is very, very, very hard toscale a course business if you
are not constantly marketing it.
Even if you're trying to just doads to it, which we've seen
multiple times.
There will be one little changein the way the ads work, or
(33:11):
there will be an election, orthere will be a bunch of things
happening in the world that areout of your control.
You'll have your ads accountshut down.
Even people are trying to avoiddoing the marketing because
they're trying to just run adswill run into problems at some
point.
So that's kind of the biggestthing I always start with is
what do you actually want to bedoing each day?
(33:31):
What lights you up, what getsyou excited?
Because if you don't want to bespending all your time
marketing, then you probablywant to continue having a
services-based business.
You just don't want to be theonly one driving that forward.
You want to have more peoplesupporting you.
Cool, now we can have aconversation about what that
looks like.
Speaker 1 (33:50):
And, as there are uncertain economic times that
come up, what are some of thethings that people can do to
weather those?
I mean staying true to whatyou're really good at doing, for
sure.
Speaker 2 (34:04):
Yeah, I mean, there's so many things you can do
whenever, and I'll just saychange is always going to happen
, and what's been happening inthe 15 years I've been in
business?
The timelines for changecollapse even more.
It used to be big changes onlyhappen maybe every three to five
years.
Now they're happening on a moreregular basis, and it's just
(34:25):
the speed of information that iscoming at us.
So if you're trying to weatherany sort of storm in your
business it could be the economy, it could be a personal thing
Look for the lowest hangingfruit first.
Chances are there's somethingthere that you have overlooked.
That would be the easiest wayto sustain your business.
(34:47):
So if you need to make moresales, don't try to go out there
and generate, do a ton ofmarketing before you've tapped
into your existing client base,before you have asked is there
anything else I could do tosupport you?
I think really smart businessowners right now, instead of
trying to bring on a bunch ofnew clients or create a bunch of
(35:09):
new offers, instead they'relooking to their existing
clients who are already payingthem and saying is there
something else I can help youwith?
Can we support you more here?
I know you're busy right now.
Can I take this off your plate?
Is there a complimentary thingyou could offer to an existence,
an existing client?
Like that will often be theeasiest sale of your life.
You won't even have to make asales page or post about it
(35:31):
anywhere, send any email.
It'll literally just be hey,now we're offering this and this
because we can see y'all needthis help.
That's usually my first placeto go is look to your existing
clients.
And the second thing there isto think about when you are
talking to people right now.
I've been talking about thisinside of the CEO collective a
lot.
(35:52):
Whenever we go into periods ofeconomic certainty, consumer
mindset shifts.
So if you think about theMaslow hierarchy of needs, when
we're in periods of abundance,when people's base needs are met
they have shelter, they havefood, they have safety when
those base needs are met nowthey have time to self-actualize
(36:12):
, which means work on themselves, invest in other things.
They have their base needscovered.
In times of any sort ofeconomic uncertainty or crisis,
they go down the pyramid ofMaslow's hierarchy of needs.
They want to.
Instead of spend money, theywant to save money, and this
(36:33):
could also mean this could meannot buying anything period, or
it could mean changing up whatthey buy or how they're buying a
thing.
So maybe in the past I just hada conversation with a friend.
She just bought a new car.
They just had a baby, realizedthey need a bigger car.
But she said we could have paidcash but we decided because of
the economy to take out a smallloan so that I could keep some
(36:56):
of that cash on hand.
So those are the types ofthings that people are thinking
about.
So that could mean do you needto figure out a different way
for people to spread paymentsaround?
Do you need to partner with abuy now, pay later, like an
affirm or something like that?
There's lots of these programsbecoming more and more easily
accessible to small businessowners.
It used to be just biggerbusinesses could access them.
(37:17):
Now a lot more are becomingavailable and it could also be
is there a part of your biggerpackage you can pull out, or
your bigger offer you can pullout and offer as a standalone?
So for us in the CEO collective, one of the things that all of
our members get is our quarterlyretreat.
We have a quarterly CEO retreatwhere we do their 90-day
(37:37):
planning.
So right now, if somebody's kindof waiting a little bit to join
us in the collective becauseit's a bigger time commitment
for 12 months, it's a higherticket program, they could join
us just for one CEO retreat fora 10th of the price and get some
of that experience and startgetting some of that results
going without as big of a timecommitment or without as big of
(38:01):
a financial commitment.
So that's something I'm seeinga lot with my clients right now
is if you've had people who wantto work with you but they can't
do the whole thing yet, couldyou pull out the strategy
session?
Could you pull out someshortened, condensed version
that you can make accessible?
It doesn't just have to be anonline course.
It could be an online course,but online course buyers are
(38:24):
generally a very differentaudience than what a lot of
service providers are serving.
Speaker 1 (38:31):
Yeah, and at the time of recording this, I'm about to
do the quarterly planningsession with you all, and so in
my life right now, I'm about tohave a baby, and so I think
people go through in their liveseconomically more uncertain and
difficult times too.
It's not necessarily reflectiveof what's happening with the
whole, you know, country.
So being able to pull outlittle pieces like that that'll
(38:54):
get people actionable resultsand help to kind of give them
the experience of what it's liketo work with you in a fuller,
fuller process, is awesome.
Speaker 2 (39:05):
Yeah, I think the most important thing when you're
doing that is to make sure it'svery congruent.
Where I see people make themistake is they're trying to
come up with a whole new offerthat doesn't actually lead to
the next thing.
So if you and again, keep itsimple and strategic, if I'm
going to do something inside ofthe CEO collective and I can
(39:26):
pull that out and make thatavailable, it really doesn't
take me much more effort to openup seats for people to join the
CEO collective retreat.
Right, if and I even did thisthis year we pulled out two of
our biggest trainings inside ofthe CEO collective, I was like
these are some important onesthat we have.
Let's make them available asstandalone products Doesn't take
me any effort.
(39:47):
It's super congruent becausethese are frameworks.
We are actively teaching peopleinside of the collective, but
it gives people a moreaccessible way to work with us.
So that's kind of when I'mlooking at business models for
people.
I really just am trying to getpeople to think outside of like
all or nothing and making theshift from you know, the big
(40:08):
shift between services versusthe more scalable scalable,
quote, unquote passive income isyou have to run the numbers
Like if you have a servicesbased business, you could have
five clients a year, 10 clientsa year, 20 clients a year, and
make a lot of revenue, dependingon the type of business you
have.
I mean, I have some clients whoonly have you know.
(40:31):
Each client is paying them 100grand a year.
Well, how many clients do theyneed to have a million dollar
business?
They only need 10.
Do they really have theaudience, though, to make a
million dollars for a course?
They don't, because theyhaven't needed an audience in
order to make a million dollarsas a service provider.
And some people are like whatare you talking about a $100,000
(40:53):
a year?
I'm like there, I have plentyof people who, like you, have
fractional HR.
I mean, if you had a clientpaying you five or 10 grand a
month as a fractional HR, I meanyou don't need many of them in
order to have a really great,you know revenue stream from
each client, and that's whereI'm like if you only need a
couple dozen clients, let's keepin the services world.
(41:15):
If you need hundreds of clients, get ready to do a lot of
marketing.
Speaker 1 (41:21):
I've heard you say in the in the past that your
business grows at the speed ofyour relationships, and I'm
curious, as you've grown yourbusiness, how?
How do you nurture therelationships that you have and
and create new ones?
Speaker 2 (41:41):
I am always building relationships.
One I'm just curious aboutpeople, so like okay.
So, for example, I'll go tothings.
I just went to a huge eventhere.
There was a screening of anamazing film documentary called
Deconstructing Karen, with thesetwo women who do anti racist
(42:01):
work, and they had like 700people in the audience.
I knew a lot of people there.
I did not know most of them,though, and so I'm like walking
in, like my friend Michelle'snext to me, and I'm like
literally like okay, michelle,you are my energetic buffer,
because this is a lot of people,and I like I could see people I
wanted to connect with, but itwas so packed and it was so loud
(42:23):
and overwhelming, and I'm veryhighly sensitive.
So what I did after that,knowing that I saw some people I
want to connect with is Iquickly shot the people I saw
while I was sitting in the seat.
A quick message on Instagramhey, I see you're here, it's so
busy, can we connect and havecoffee afterwards?
(42:43):
And so the next day or so, Ijust set up like little coffee
dates with those people, and soI find a way to make things work
for me.
I think that's the key whenyou're building relationships.
I know that I'm better one onone when I'm trying to build
deeper relationships.
So I have to initiate a lot ofthat right.
Like hey, can we have a call?
Can we have coffee?
(43:04):
Can we meet up for lunch?
If I'm in town and I knowsomebody, like if I'm traveling
for something and I know peopleare near there, I'll be like,
hey, I'm in town for XYZ, can wemeet up and do this?
I'll do that when I'm atconferences.
If I know people are going tobe at conferences.
I'll make sure I never eatalone.
I always have somebody I'meating lunch or dinner with or
something.
(43:25):
But there's two parts when itcomes to building relationships.
One is frequency how frequentlyare you seeing people or are
you connecting with them?
So it's really hard to buildrelationships with people you
don't touch base with.
You have to have some amount oflike frequency.
So the people I'm trying tonurture relationships with, I
actively try to make sure I'mtouching base with them, like
(43:47):
once a month, and it could be assimple as commenting on their
social media post or I willoften subscribe to all their
newsletters and I'll, once aweek, sit down and I'll hit
reply.
People love that.
They know, hey, she actuallyreads our newsletters.
Yes, I do, and I'll hit replyif I think it's really good or
if I have something to share.
But it's the frequency and it'sthe consistency thing too.
(44:10):
You've got to consistently maketime for it, so it's just
become such a habit.
Now I don't really have tothink about it.
But, for example, I regularlyattend two or three things a
month here in Richmond, virginia.
I love having a local communityin addition to the online
community.
I have clients all around theworld, so I do have a
(44:33):
international community ofpeople that I'm connecting with
and talking to, and when I havethe chance to actually see them
in person, I try to.
But there's something aboutface to face in person that
deepens relationships, and so Itry to prioritize that as much
as I can in the settings that Iprefer, which is smaller,
(44:53):
preferably with food and wine.
Speaker 1 (44:56):
Yeah.
Is there anything that youwould share with your yourself
in your 20s, when you were firststarting your business, that
you something that you'velearned now that you would love
for her to know?
Speaker 2 (45:14):
What I would tell my 20 something self would probably
be that it's okay to putboundaries in place, because it
took me a long time to figurethat out, and especially
boundaries in my personal lifethat were taking away from the
life I wanted to build.
I was putting a lot of weightinto other people's opinions of
(45:39):
me and what they think I shoulddo, and that held me back for a
really, really long time.
But I am so grateful that 20something me got into therapy
and went on this healing journeyand learned some things about
myself, including that I canhandle a lot of stuff.
(46:01):
So I don't know, I think thatwould probably be the biggest
one boundaries.
Speaker 1 (46:07):
Yeah, yeah, I hear that I had a similar experience
when I was started my firstcompany in my 20s too, and got
into a lot of different kinds ofbusiness relationships and
personal relationships that justweren't the kinds that I really
wanted to be having as I grewand learned more about myself in
(46:31):
the world.
Speaker 2 (46:33):
It's one of the most important things we can do for
ourselves is learn how to putboundaries in place and, I also
think, learn how to again clearas kind, learn how to speak up
for yourself, learn how tonavigate difficult situations.
I think a lot of the challengesespecially women in business
have is the fear of having adifficult conversation or, if
(46:53):
anything feels uncomfortable,just freaking out about that.
But often the thing you want isjust one hard conversation away
.
Speaker 1 (47:05):
Well, thank you so much for this conversation.
I really appreciate it, and ifpeople would like to get in
contact with you or learn aboutworking with you, what's the
best way for them to do that?
Speaker 2 (47:17):
Well, I'm over on Instagram quite a lot, so I'd
encourage you to come find methere at Rachel Cook and let me
know what you take away fromthis conversation, and also come
check out the CEO collective Ifyou're a small business owner
who is ready to learn how tosustainably scale your business.
That is what we do, and weabsolutely love working with
(47:39):
women entrepreneurs who haveservice based businesses and are
ready to grow them, so wouldlove to support you over there.
Speaker 1 (47:49):
Hit subscribe to know when the next episodes come out
.
And, if you're feeling generous, please leave a review.
Reviews help other like mindedfolks find their way to this
resource.
If something you heard todaybrought a smile to your face or
a spark to your heart and you'dlike to connect with me, there
(48:10):
are a few ways to do that.
One is my newsletter, where Iput most of my time and energy
when I'm not working withclients or with my family or
working on this podcast Sorry,social media.
The newsletter is a mix of reallife stories, tips and tricks
(48:31):
and, of course, updates onwhat's happening with the
podcast.
Whenever something's going onwith me or in my business, it
always comes out there first.
Another resource that I have foryou is my guide to doing work
differently.
This guide takes you throughfour inquiries into how you can
(48:52):
build a more sustainable andequitable work environment for
yourself and your team.
It's a great place if you'relooking for somewhere to get
started.
Last, if you've got a burningquestion, a comment or a
situation you'd like my eyes on,you can email me.
All those links are in the shownotes.
(49:13):
Take care, brave soul, catchyou next time.
The hearth is for you if you're a business leader
with a team.
Here we have conversationsabout how to keep growing.
When you feel you've reachedyour capacity, when what you're
doing is working but you'restarting to see the cracks, when
there's a gap between whereyou're at now and where you want
(00:26):
to be, here we find ways totransition through the struggle
of survival toward creating athriving business that supports
you and your team as wholehumans.
Your host is me, candaceElliott.
I'm a business strategist andmentor who specializes in
(00:49):
working with business owners whoare going through periods of
growth.
Especially when you're addingmore people to your team, the
practices and systems thatworked when your team was
smaller just don't seem to fitanymore, and when you're caught
in stress and reaction, it'stough to reimagine the way that
(01:14):
you created your world of work,both your own personal one and
the one that you created forothers.
I help people align theirvalues and business practices to
build practical, sustainable,thriving work ecosystems and no,
(01:35):
this isn't just some workutopia talk.
To do this, I bring forward mydecade-long professional
background in human resourcesand organizational development,
working with growing businessesacross many sectors, and my
decades-long search for meaningand wholeness, which includes
(01:59):
researching the history of workand how it came to be what it is
today, practicing atrauma-informed approach to
business and integrating work,life and spirituality into a
meaningful whole.
Let's take this journey together.
Welcome to the hearth-bravesouls.
(02:27):
I'm so happy that you are back.
Today.
I'm sharing with you aconversation that I had with
Rachel Cook.
Rachel heads up the CEOcollective, where she helps
entrepreneurs who are ready tosustainably scale their
(02:47):
businesses.
The conversation that we havetoday is really focusing on
values and how we define ourvalues and then make decisions
around them as business ownersand integrating them into the
all different kinds of thingsthat we do.
So here's our conversation.
(03:07):
Rachel, thank you so much forjoining me on the hearth today.
I really appreciate you beinghere.
Speaker 2 (03:15):
I'm so excited we could make this happen and also
have you on my show, so it'sbeen so much fun.
Speaker 1 (03:22):
Yeah, yeah, I love the swap, so would you mind just
starting out by telling us yourstory.
How did you get to where youare today?
Speaker 2 (03:32):
So, like many oldest daughters, who is also a type A
overachiever and perfectionist,I did what I was supposed to do
and got multiple degrees, gotrecruited into my quote unquote
dream job in corporate doingconsulting, and proceeded to
very quickly burn out.
Within a couple years I washaving severe health problems,
(03:56):
to the point where I had to takea short term leave of absence.
I took disability for threemonths and tried to figure out
what am I doing, because Irealized I couldn't keep doing
what I was doing.
I couldn't keep up with thehustle and grind pace that is
the consulting world, and anyonewho has worked in consulting
has worked in finance.
Like there's some industrieswhere they literally grind
(04:19):
people down in the first coupleyears.
You know any of my friends whohave gone into consulting,
finance or big law.
They've all had the sameexperience and then they all
leave at some point.
I left and started this businessas the yogipreneur, and it
happened accidentally, becauseat that point I mean I was not
(04:40):
well, I didn't know what Iwanted to do, because I realized
the dream I had been sold wasnot really a dream, it was kind
of a nightmare, and so I wascrying on a yoga mat, as you do
when you take three monthsmedical leave of absence.
And my yoga teacher said to mebecause we had become good
friends she was like I know youdon't want to go back, but my
(05:01):
studio is kind of struggling.
Could you help me with that?
Could you maybe, you know, giveme some ideas or some pointers?
And because I have two degreesin entrepreneurship and small
business management and I'vebeen working in the world of
consulting, like it was like alight bulb moment for me when I
realized she did not havesomeone to go to who understood
business.
(05:21):
She had an accountant, she hada lawyer, but no one who
understood how to do marketing,how to do sales, how to put
together projections for astudio like hers.
Like there were so many thingsshe didn't know and she didn't
know.
She didn't know them, and atthe time this was 2008, there
just wasn't any place to go.
So it was a light bulb momentfor me when I realized, oh, I
(05:43):
had been working with smallbusinesses.
But there are these micro,owner operated businesses.
We would maybe call them soloprinters now is the trendy word,
but back then it was like owneroperated or non employee
businesses and so that was alight bulb moment for me and
that's how I started wasliterally because my yoga
(06:04):
teacher is like can you help me?
Because that community is sosmall.
What tends to happen if youstart in a small niche is people
start to talk about it.
So she told other teachers, shetold other friends.
I made a website for the Yogiprinter and it started to really
grow organically, first by wordof mouth and referrals and then
(06:25):
because I started activelymarketing and growing.
And so over the last 15 yearsit's pivoted a couple times from
the Yogi printer to just RachelCook and now to the CEO
collective, mainly because Ijust keep listening to my
clients.
This has been a very cocreative process for me.
I never started 15 years agothinking it would be the CEO
(06:47):
collective and the businesswould be the shape and form it
is today.
But it has gotten to this pointbecause I'm always responding
to the needs of the clients thatI'm serving.
Speaker 1 (06:58):
Yeah, I think that's such an interesting and
wonderful way to grow a businessis really by looking at the
clients.
What are my clients saying tome?
What do they need?
What can I create that willhelp them the most?
And then that tends to bringmore people kind of into the
orbit.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
Absolutely, and the thing that I always tell people.
Like one, I had a lot ofprivileges starting my business
first.
I will absolutely say that,like we at the time did not have
children, I did not have anyresponsibilities, I had no
student loans to pay.
In fact, my husband and I solda car and we downsized from a
(07:39):
town home to like a smallerapartment so that I could take
the sleep without feeling anyfinancial pressure.
That's a huge privilege, andthat was also when I was in my
20s.
If I was doing it again today,in my 40s, it would look very
different, because now I havethree kids, I have a mortgage, I
have a mom I'm caring for andhave to support.
(08:00):
There's a lot of other thingsthat are happening in my life
that would have completelychanged that whole story and I
think it's important toacknowledge that.
Also.
I think timing is a thing.
When I started in this world, itwas 2008.
It was in a recession.
I started my business in thelast big recession and there was
(08:23):
no like social media.
There was no real onlinemarketing.
There were only a handful ofpeople talking to a very small
niche audience the yoga worldand getting on the ground floor
of some of these things thathave grown exponentially.
I just I wrote a wave and Iwill not act like it was all me.
There were certain elementsthat were at play.
(08:47):
The yoga industry was booming.
I had spent some time workingwith Lou Lemon Athletica when
they were coming to the UnitedStates, so I had a lot of
connections to that particularbig company and I was able to
leverage that connection.
I was able to start on socialmedia.
When social media was starting,you couldn't get that kind of
(09:10):
reach and organic trafficanymore.
That's just not how it is.
So there's a lot of things thatkind of helped me get going
that are very different than howI would recommend anybody start
right now.
But the one thing I wouldencourage everyone to think
about is who you knowrelationships.
It is not a meritocracy.
Business is not a meritocracyat all.
(09:30):
It is not about how hard youwork or else the hardest worker
who's out there.
You know doing hard labor wouldbe getting paid the most.
It is definitely about theconnections that you have and
it's also about seeingopportunities, untapped
opportunities and, for me,unserved audiences.
If there's an unserved audience, that niche that has a lot of
(09:53):
growth potential that's soincredibly valuable to tap into
something right as it's gettingvery popular and when you think
about growing a business that issuccessful.
Speaker 1 (10:04):
I think that when we look at a lot of the traditional
business advice, there's profitfirst model and then there's
grow at all costs kind of model,and I think that a lot of newer
business owners kind of fallinto having one of those as the
way that they're definingwhether or not they're
successful.
(10:25):
But I'm curious, from yourexperience in growing your own
company and also in working withso many CEOs, what are some
other more sustainable measuresof success?
Speaker 2 (10:37):
I think capitalism has taught us that growth is the
only way forward, and you'llhear a lot of people in the
business space say, if you'renot growing, you're dying, and
I'm just like.
That is not necessarily true,because if you are owning your
own small business, you have100% control over how big that
business is and what thatbusiness is going to look like.
(10:59):
That success for you might lookvery different from what I
would define success or whatsomeone else would define
success as.
So I think that's the firstthing I always start with what
is your definition of success?
Can you give me a definition ofsuccess that is not tied to how
much money you make, butinstead you can tell me what is
your definition of success foryour life and lifestyle,
(11:21):
including when you work, howoften you work, who you're
working with, including whattime you get up in the morning
or time you go to bed.
What does a day in your lifelook like, a week in your life
look like?
What are you experiencing dayin and day out?
If you know what that is?
You have solved so many issuesand given us some great
(11:41):
information for how to createthe right size business for you.
I think another definition ofsuccess, especially as someone
with chronic health problems, isyour health and well-being.
And here I am not talking aboutmaking a diet plan or a workout
plan.
I am talking about makingyourself well mentally and
(12:02):
physically, making sure that youhave the energy to do the
things that you want to do, bothin your work and in your life.
So what is your definition ofsuccess and health and wellness
look like?
For me, it's really reallysimple stuff.
It's like I'm drinking water,I'm eating really healthy foods
that make me feel good, I'mmoving my body by going on a
(12:24):
walk and then tracking my stepsthrough the day to make sure I'm
moving enough.
I'm seeing like I just saw mychiropractor and I see an
acupuncturist, like that's whatmy health and well-being looks
like.
And those things are requiredbecause they help me show up the
way I want to show up in mylife and in my business.
Then I want you to look at yourrelationships.
I think this is also overlooked.
(12:45):
There's a lot of people who keepsaying well, I'll make time for
that when I fill in the blankwith whatever reason.
Often I'll make time for thatwhen it gets less busy.
So if you've found yourselfsaying I'll make time for that
when it gets less busy.
I'll have a date night with myspouse when things get less busy
.
I'll plan a vacation whenthings get less busy.
(13:07):
I will take a day off whenthings get less busy, like
they're never going to get lessbusy.
So stop using that excuse and weneed to actually decide what
relationships are important andhow are we prioritizing them.
Get clear on that, because ifyou have relationships in your
life that you want to put timeand energy into, we need to know
(13:29):
what that actually means.
We don't want to just leave itsuper vague.
We want it to be like oh, thisis what we're doing.
We're having a weekly datenight, going away on a honeymoon
on our anniversary every year.
We're taking each kid outseparately for a mom and me date
.
Those are the types of thingsthat I do every single month and
I know what my definition ofsuccess for those relationships
look like.
It's very specific things thatI know are important and because
(13:54):
I have that and I know who mytop, most important people are,
my most important relationshipsare, I can have so much clarity.
Again, this is all about givingyourself clarity on what you
will require this business toallow you to do so once you have
your life, your lifestyle, yourhealth, well-being, your
(14:14):
relationships.
The next thing I look at iscreativity, and I think this is
so crucially important because alot of people, especially
adults, especially mothers orcaregivers and no surprise, a
lot of women start businessesbecause they are mothers or
(14:34):
caregivers.
There's something like 35% ofsmall business owners that are
women are mothers of school-agedchildren and another 30-ish
percent are caregivers to anelder adult.
There's a lot of overlap theretoo.
So maybe you're like me and youboth have children at home and
a parent who needs help.
So we need an outlet to takecare of ourselves and nurture
(15:00):
our own creativity.
You'll be amazed what will comeout of finding an outlet for
yourself, having a hobby again.
It can be really simple thingsthat you like to do for
creativity.
I have learned I love Legos.
I have every one of the newLego sets.
They are making adult Legos,apparently.
Adults buying Legos is one ofthe fastest growing segments for
(15:22):
their growth right now.
That's hilarious, yeah, and itmakes sense Because I'm out
there.
I bought four sets of Legos inthe last six months and it's one
of those things where it mightseem silly and old me, would
have been like this is stupid,this is a kid thing.
But now I'm like, no, this is acreative thing, this is working
with your hands.
There's a lot of research outthere about the importance of
(15:44):
creativity in your life theimportance of creativity and
discharging stress and avoidingburnout and creating connection
If you're finding a hobby thatinvolves other people or
something you can connect around.
I have a friend who goes andtakes a pottery class once a
week.
How cool is that?
How many things have you everwanted to learn how to do and
(16:06):
you just never did because youcouldn't monetize it?
So get a hobby, do somethingcreative.
What does that look like?
What do you wish you could dothat you never made time for?
And then the final thing I thinkabout is your own personal
growth and spirituality, so yourconnection to self and
something bigger than you.
However you define that, I don'tcare how you define that, but I
(16:28):
do think every human has thispull to feel connected to
something bigger than them andalso needs to have a connection
to themself.
So what does that look like foryou?
Is that a mindfulness practice?
Is that participating in achurch or another organized
religion or practice?
(16:49):
There's a million differentthings that could be, but if you
don't have clarity in what thatlooks like for you and what's
going to keep filling your cupand really helping you feel like
you're not alone in this world,if you don't have something,
then again you'll get depletedreally fast.
So those are the top fivedefinitions of success I put out
(17:10):
there, because now we have somuch more information about you,
the owner of this business, andwhat you need this business to
do for you.
Not what you need to do for thebusiness, not what you need to
do for anybody else, but whatyou need it to do for you, and
that, to me, is the foundationof making your business work for
(17:31):
you.
Speaker 1 (17:33):
Yeah, I just love this list because it isn't what
we think about when we thinkabout business, but it is what
we think about when we considerthe CEO as a person and what a
person needs in order to befulfilled in life.
Speaker 2 (17:50):
We're human, we have human needs and the best part is
and you'll love this becauseyou're the HR expert but when
you, as the owner, have thisperspective, you humanize
everything for the rest of yourteam, for your clients.
Like that does trickle down alot when you prioritize, let's
say, your health and well-beingand you're open about it and
(18:13):
you're sharing with people whatyou're doing.
You'll be amazed how suddenlythat'll change the culture for
people around you, becausethey're watching you walk in
with your water bottle orsuddenly everybody has an aura
ring, those things rub off, orpeople are taking time to go to
therapy and yeah, exactly thosethings rub off in a big way,
(18:35):
because that's to me, that'swhat real leadership is, that's
you showing up as an actualhuman being and giving everybody
permission to do the same thing.
Speaker 1 (18:44):
And one of the foundational things that you do
with CEOs is work on values, andI'm curious how you define a
value or how you get to thenaming of the values.
Speaker 2 (19:00):
Yeah.
So I'm going to give a hugeshout out to Erica Corday and
India Jackson of Pause on thePlay.
I had done a lot of differenttypes of values exercises and it
wasn't until they came up withthis process they called the
from implicit to explicitprocess.
That was so transformationalfor me Because I think in the
(19:25):
past a lot of exercises I hadseen around values were kind of
like here's a word bank of a lotof values, circle five and
ta-da, now you have yourcorporate values.
But it didn't mean anything.
And because it didn't meananything, it didn't work.
It didn't give us anything wecould dig into.
So going through this processwas really about taking the
(19:49):
values you have as a person, butalso the values you're creating
in your company, and takingthem from being implicit to
everybody kind of knows thisalready to actually formalizing
them.
And for me that process was sotransformational.
I keep sending everybody backto that experience Because it
wasn't about a list of keywords,it was about actually Defining
(20:12):
those for yourself and andcoming up with your own language
.
And it's so funny because a lotof the language Ended up being
things that I just kept sayingover and over and over again.
So our first one is life beforebusiness, and that is first for
a reason, because that was thePrimary value I had when I
started my business was so thatI could have a life, but it's
(20:32):
also the primary value for a lotof our clients.
When they come to us, they wantand need to have time for their
life Before business, likethey're again, it's about
prioritizing their needs as ahuman Over the business.
So the business doesn't workfor them if it's business before
life, which unfortunately hasbeen the way for a lot of
(20:52):
businesses in the past.
Speaker 1 (20:55):
What are the other values that you have in your
business?
Speaker 2 (21:00):
About page of our website and it's interesting
because I've actually changedsome of the language around them
.
Erica is also my diversity,equity and inclusion coach and
really helping me thinkingthrough a lot of language
choices.
So just know that y'all, likeyou, can change the language as
you go.
So another one is people first,all about prioritizing people
(21:20):
over profits, about buildingrelationships Clear as kind.
I stole that one from BernayBrown.
I just loved it so much becauseI think women Historically
women have been programmed to benice and and being nice is
killing us like literally.
It is causing so much pain inthe world and it is actively
(21:45):
causing harm to a lot of people,a lot of Different groups of
people.
So clear as kind like how canwe have clear, kind
Communication?
That includes being able togive and receive feedback.
That includes strong boundaries.
That includes making sure Ihave found the boundaries thing
is the most important thing andto me, clear as kind is a huge
(22:10):
part of that.
Keep it simple and strategic isJust kind of one of my personal
mottos for how I think aboutbusiness.
I always want it.
I want to do the least amountpossible with the biggest result
.
I don't want to do the mostamount possible with the
littlest result.
So if you can't keep it simpleand strategic, you're gonna
spend a lot of time working, butyou might not get the results
(22:32):
you would if you focused on theessential few versus the trivial
.
Many Aim for excellence.
Excellence is an important wordfor me because Another thing I
know about women is a lot of ushave this perfectionism issue
when if something's not perfect,we won't do it, we won't share
(22:53):
it, we won't put it out there.
But perfectionism is reallyagain actively causing harm to a
lot of us.
It makes women play small andhold themselves back.
In so many ways, excellence isdifferent from perfection.
Excellence is the idea that, yes, you want to Do the highest
level you can, but alsoExcellence is about knowing
(23:16):
there's improvement all the time, so you can be excellent and
still have room for improvement,and that's more realistic to me
than you have to be perfect allthe time.
There's three more.
I'll just run them real quickembrace ownership, taking
responsibility for our actionsand our roles, taking initiative
, taking imperfect action, andthen the final is in women we
(23:37):
trust, and this is the one thatI changed the language on,
because Originally I wrote thefuture is female, and then I
decided to change that, mainlybecause there has been, you know
, obviously a huge conversation,cultural conversation on gender
identity and I wanted to try tobe a little bit more clear
(23:58):
about we're here to support allwomen.
If you are someone whoidentifies as a woman, we we are
here to support you.
If you are a black woman,indigenous woman, a Asian
American woman, we are here tosupport all women in business.
Speaker 1 (24:16):
This is such a clearly defined, robust list of
values and I'm curious how, inyour own company, they have
played a part in yourdecision-making.
Speaker 2 (24:28):
Some of the decisions that we made.
Like I do better givingconcrete examples.
So, on the the people.
First, one helps us a lot.
We have found that, especiallythe last few years I mean, the
being in business since 2020 hasbeen a wild ride, and I will
just say like sometimes, beingon this end, I work with so many
(24:49):
business owners, I'm talking tothem and I'm also often the
only space they have toDischarge a lot of emotion,
which means now I am on thereceiving end of a lot of
emotion and which can bechallenging.
But you know, we decided tochange some policies internally
because and I think this happensfor a lot of people like you
(25:12):
start putting together policiesor terms and services and
agreements based on kind of thestatus quo, like this is the
standard that most people have,but the the Pandemic is one of
the first times where I go.
This is not fair for somepeople.
There are some people andeverybody's needs are different,
but there were some people whothey desperately needed our
support and we had the containerof support they needed, but at
(25:36):
the same time, they were beingimpacted financially so much
that they needed support theretoo, and so we decided to make a
policy where they could take athree month pause, and this
allowed us to still have thecontainer to give them support,
but then we were giving them away to take care of themselves
first and that has become kindof an ongoing thing.
(25:59):
Like now, we have differentterms for different things.
Like, if you are having a babywe've had lots of babies Cool,
we have a maternity leave.
You will pause you for threemonths.
You had a death in the family.
We'll give you the bereavementleave, like we have listed out
now.
Like now, we'll give peoplepauses in their program so they
don't feel like they're payingfor something that they're not
using because they have a lifeevent Going on, because it's a
(26:21):
long program right.
Speaker 1 (26:23):
It's a year long and Unfortunately, I've been through
with my clients.
Speaker 2 (26:26):
I mean a lot of fun things, like I've been to
weddings, I've been tocelebrations, I've been to
exciting things, but I've alsobeen to funerals and I've also
had people get cancer and I'vealso had a lot of other real
things happen.
And I don't think in that casethat the people first Version of
me would say too bad, yousigned a contract, I don't care
(26:48):
that you're going through chemo,you know what I mean.
Like that just does not fitRight to me.
And there are some people outthere who would say a contract
as a contract, we don't care.
And I'm like well, I think thecontract is there to protect
both of us.
So how do we?
How do we do that?
And that's one that I think Igo back to all the time, like
(27:10):
we're constantly, especially inthe world I'm in, especially
with terms and conditions.
There's a lot of terms andconditions that are really there
because People are trying tokeep their clients, basically.
But we don't have a problemkeeping our clients.
Most of our clients want tostay with us.
They just need flexibility.
Sometimes Maybe they need analternative payment arrangement
(27:32):
one month, or maybe, you know,there's something we can do.
But when people are in activecrisis or there's something
happening, that's when they needme the most.
Like could you imagine and I'msure I mean think about it
You're in an active crisis andyou can't go to see your
therapist, a person who wouldactually help you the most.
Like Not saying that I'm abusiness therapist, because I am
(27:52):
not, but I can help themproblem-solve and get through a
lot of things because I'm notthe one actively in it.
So I want to make sure thatwe're always kind of Navigating
that, because those, thosesituations come up.
We handle them on acase-by-case basis, but we
always try to reassure ourclients that if you're going
through something, really hardto do Is try to reassure our
clients that if you're goingthrough something, we're here.
(28:14):
This is why you hired us is sothat you can have this support
system.
And if it means we need to makesome changes or we need to
press pause or, you know, dosomething a little differently,
let's, let's work together onthat.
Speaker 1 (28:28):
Yeah, so it sounds like really Re-evaluating your
systems on an ongoing basis tomake sure that they're in
alignment with the values thatyou have.
I I actually recently justlooked through my contracts that
I send out and I was like, wow,there's a lot in here.
That is just not true.
I need to pull all of this.
You know, there's likepenalties for non-payment and
(28:50):
different kinds of reallyprotective legal language.
That isn't.
It's not creating the kind ofrelationship that I want to have
with my clients, you know.
Speaker 2 (29:02):
And that's what I realized too, is a lot of the
language that we had in somethings, and there's probably
things that I could even dobetter at changing, because a
lawyer's job is there to protectme right At the end of the day.
I feel like relationships are socrucially important and I value
the relationship more.
Right like that to me.
(29:23):
I'm like if I treat you reallywell and show you that I'm here
to be on your, on your team andin your corner and I'm willing
to work with you through achallenging time.
Now do I still expect like yes,you did sign up for this
program and I do expect you toactually complete the program
and Pay the full fee if weoffered an extended payment plan
or something?
(29:44):
But am I gonna make it anightmare if you're actually
going through something and youneed real support?
No, I think that is veryscarcity mindset.
I think it's also based out of,unfortunately, the industry
that I'm in and the world ofbusiness coaching.
There's a lot of people whomake big promises they can't
(30:05):
follow through on and they haveto write these types of terms in
because there's no other wayfor them to protect their own
interest.
Like their clients aren't veryhappy, and so they need the
legal language to protect them,because they don't know how to
deliver on what they promised.
Speaker 1 (30:19):
I so, when you're working with CEOs that are
building out a business like afull business, creating business
models, what are some of thecomponents of a business model
that are regenerative andsustainable for someone to
(30:43):
create, like I'm thinking youknow systems as part of it, and
then there's products, offers,and then there's themselves.
But how, when you're thinkingabout growth, like big growth,
that happens at certain timeshow do you go into that in a way
that you're not going to fallflat on your face?
Speaker 2 (31:04):
Well, I think one thing is to understand what you,
as the owner, want, becausethere's a million ways we can
scale a business.
So if we just start focusing onwhat we think is the only
scalable way, then often we endup in business models we don't
like and unfortunately, I'veseen this trap and I'm seeing it
actively like right now.
(31:24):
You know the economy isshifting and so people are
making big decisions andchanging up their business
because they're realizing thatwas not working for them.
So it comes back to what do youdo best in the world?
And if you can't be brutallyhonest with yourself about that,
what do you do better thaneveryone else than choosing a
scalable model because so and sosaid, this is the only scalable
(31:45):
model?
I'm hearing that a lot with,like online courses.
I'm hearing a lot of people sayservices aren't scalable.
Bs, bs.
There are tons of services thatare incredibly scalable.
Otherwise, there wouldn't bethe biggest marketing agencies
in the world, there wouldn't behuge consulting firms, there
wouldn't be huge accountingfirms Like those are all
(32:05):
services that are being offered.
It is hugely scalable.
It's just not what a coursecreator who's selling you a
course on creating courses isgoing to tell you is scalable.
So you have to know what youreally want to sign up for,
because what they often don'ttell you in that type of model
which is usually these are thetwo that are being compared in
(32:26):
my world a lot Do I continuewith services and grow more of
an agency style model, or do Igo with all in on the courses
and try to scale that?
What often they don't tell youis the sheer volume of marketing
that goes into a course model.
It is you're going to be afull-time marketer, meaning all
(32:49):
the time you are working in yourbusiness is on marketing.
It is very, very, very hard toscale a course business if you
are not constantly marketing it.
Even if you're trying to just doads to it, which we've seen
multiple times.
There will be one little changein the way the ads work, or
(33:11):
there will be an election, orthere will be a bunch of things
happening in the world that areout of your control.
You'll have your ads accountshut down.
Even people are trying to avoiddoing the marketing because
they're trying to just run adswill run into problems at some
point.
So that's kind of the biggestthing I always start with is
what do you actually want to bedoing each day?
(33:31):
What lights you up, what getsyou excited?
Because if you don't want to bespending all your time
marketing, then you probablywant to continue having a
services-based business.
You just don't want to be theonly one driving that forward.
You want to have more peoplesupporting you.
Cool, now we can have aconversation about what that
looks like.
Speaker 1 (33:50):
And, as there are uncertain economic times that
come up, what are some of thethings that people can do to
weather those?
I mean staying true to whatyou're really good at doing, for
sure.
Speaker 2 (34:04):
Yeah, I mean, there's so many things you can do
whenever, and I'll just saychange is always going to happen
, and what's been happening inthe 15 years I've been in
business?
The timelines for changecollapse even more.
It used to be big changes onlyhappen maybe every three to five
years.
Now they're happening on a moreregular basis, and it's just
(34:25):
the speed of information that iscoming at us.
So if you're trying to weatherany sort of storm in your
business it could be the economy, it could be a personal thing
Look for the lowest hangingfruit first.
Chances are there's somethingthere that you have overlooked.
That would be the easiest wayto sustain your business.
(34:47):
So if you need to make moresales, don't try to go out there
and generate, do a ton ofmarketing before you've tapped
into your existing client base,before you have asked is there
anything else I could do tosupport you?
I think really smart businessowners right now, instead of
trying to bring on a bunch ofnew clients or create a bunch of
(35:09):
new offers, instead they'relooking to their existing
clients who are already payingthem and saying is there
something else I can help youwith?
Can we support you more here?
I know you're busy right now.
Can I take this off your plate?
Is there a complimentary thingyou could offer to an existence,
an existing client?
Like that will often be theeasiest sale of your life.
You won't even have to make asales page or post about it
(35:31):
anywhere, send any email.
It'll literally just be hey,now we're offering this and this
because we can see y'all needthis help.
That's usually my first placeto go is look to your existing
clients.
And the second thing there isto think about when you are
talking to people right now.
I've been talking about thisinside of the CEO collective a
lot.
(35:52):
Whenever we go into periods ofeconomic certainty, consumer
mindset shifts.
So if you think about theMaslow hierarchy of needs, when
we're in periods of abundance,when people's base needs are met
they have shelter, they havefood, they have safety when
those base needs are met nowthey have time to self-actualize
(36:12):
, which means work on themselves, invest in other things.
They have their base needscovered.
In times of any sort ofeconomic uncertainty or crisis,
they go down the pyramid ofMaslow's hierarchy of needs.
They want to.
Instead of spend money, theywant to save money, and this
(36:33):
could also mean this could meannot buying anything period, or
it could mean changing up whatthey buy or how they're buying a
thing.
So maybe in the past I just hada conversation with a friend.
She just bought a new car.
They just had a baby, realizedthey need a bigger car.
But she said we could have paidcash but we decided because of
the economy to take out a smallloan so that I could keep some
(36:56):
of that cash on hand.
So those are the types ofthings that people are thinking
about.
So that could mean do you needto figure out a different way
for people to spread paymentsaround?
Do you need to partner with abuy now, pay later, like an
affirm or something like that?
There's lots of these programsbecoming more and more easily
accessible to small businessowners.
It used to be just biggerbusinesses could access them.
(37:17):
Now a lot more are becomingavailable and it could also be
is there a part of your biggerpackage you can pull out, or
your bigger offer you can pullout and offer as a standalone?
So for us in the CEO collective, one of the things that all of
our members get is our quarterlyretreat.
We have a quarterly CEO retreatwhere we do their 90-day
(37:37):
planning.
So right now, if somebody's kindof waiting a little bit to join
us in the collective becauseit's a bigger time commitment
for 12 months, it's a higherticket program, they could join
us just for one CEO retreat fora 10th of the price and get some
of that experience and startgetting some of that results
going without as big of a timecommitment or without as big of
(38:01):
a financial commitment.
So that's something I'm seeinga lot with my clients right now
is if you've had people who wantto work with you but they can't
do the whole thing yet, couldyou pull out the strategy
session?
Could you pull out someshortened, condensed version
that you can make accessible?
It doesn't just have to be anonline course.
It could be an online course,but online course buyers are
(38:24):
generally a very differentaudience than what a lot of
service providers are serving.
Speaker 1 (38:31):
Yeah, and at the time of recording this, I'm about to
do the quarterly planningsession with you all, and so in
my life right now, I'm about tohave a baby, and so I think
people go through in their liveseconomically more uncertain and
difficult times too.
It's not necessarily reflectiveof what's happening with the
whole, you know, country.
So being able to pull outlittle pieces like that that'll
(38:54):
get people actionable resultsand help to kind of give them
the experience of what it's liketo work with you in a fuller,
fuller process, is awesome.
Speaker 2 (39:05):
Yeah, I think the most important thing when you're
doing that is to make sure it'svery congruent.
Where I see people make themistake is they're trying to
come up with a whole new offerthat doesn't actually lead to
the next thing.
So if you and again, keep itsimple and strategic, if I'm
going to do something inside ofthe CEO collective and I can
(39:26):
pull that out and make thatavailable, it really doesn't
take me much more effort to openup seats for people to join the
CEO collective retreat.
Right, if and I even did thisthis year we pulled out two of
our biggest trainings inside ofthe CEO collective, I was like
these are some important onesthat we have.
Let's make them available asstandalone products Doesn't take
me any effort.
(39:47):
It's super congruent becausethese are frameworks.
We are actively teaching peopleinside of the collective, but
it gives people a moreaccessible way to work with us.
So that's kind of when I'mlooking at business models for
people.
I really just am trying to getpeople to think outside of like
all or nothing and making theshift from you know, the big
(40:08):
shift between services versusthe more scalable scalable,
quote, unquote passive income isyou have to run the numbers
Like if you have a servicesbased business, you could have
five clients a year, 10 clientsa year, 20 clients a year, and
make a lot of revenue, dependingon the type of business you
have.
I mean, I have some clients whoonly have you know.
(40:31):
Each client is paying them 100grand a year.
Well, how many clients do theyneed to have a million dollar
business?
They only need 10.
Do they really have theaudience, though, to make a
million dollars for a course?
They don't, because theyhaven't needed an audience in
order to make a million dollarsas a service provider.
And some people are like whatare you talking about a $100,000
(40:53):
a year?
I'm like there, I have plentyof people who, like you, have
fractional HR.
I mean, if you had a clientpaying you five or 10 grand a
month as a fractional HR, I meanyou don't need many of them in
order to have a really great,you know revenue stream from
each client, and that's whereI'm like if you only need a
couple dozen clients, let's keepin the services world.
(41:15):
If you need hundreds of clients, get ready to do a lot of
marketing.
Speaker 1 (41:21):
I've heard you say in the in the past that your
business grows at the speed ofyour relationships, and I'm
curious, as you've grown yourbusiness, how?
How do you nurture therelationships that you have and
and create new ones?
Speaker 2 (41:41):
I am always building relationships.
One I'm just curious aboutpeople, so like okay.
So, for example, I'll go tothings.
I just went to a huge eventhere.
There was a screening of anamazing film documentary called
Deconstructing Karen, with thesetwo women who do anti racist
(42:01):
work, and they had like 700people in the audience.
I knew a lot of people there.
I did not know most of them,though, and so I'm like walking
in, like my friend Michelle'snext to me, and I'm like
literally like okay, michelle,you are my energetic buffer,
because this is a lot of people,and I like I could see people I
wanted to connect with, but itwas so packed and it was so loud
(42:23):
and overwhelming, and I'm veryhighly sensitive.
So what I did after that,knowing that I saw some people I
want to connect with is Iquickly shot the people I saw
while I was sitting in the seat.
A quick message on Instagramhey, I see you're here, it's so
busy, can we connect and havecoffee afterwards?
(42:43):
And so the next day or so, Ijust set up like little coffee
dates with those people, and soI find a way to make things work
for me.
I think that's the key whenyou're building relationships.
I know that I'm better one onone when I'm trying to build
deeper relationships.
So I have to initiate a lot ofthat right.
Like hey, can we have a call?
Can we have coffee?
(43:04):
Can we meet up for lunch?
If I'm in town and I knowsomebody, like if I'm traveling
for something and I know peopleare near there, I'll be like,
hey, I'm in town for XYZ, can wemeet up and do this?
I'll do that when I'm atconferences.
If I know people are going tobe at conferences.
I'll make sure I never eatalone.
I always have somebody I'meating lunch or dinner with or
something.
(43:25):
But there's two parts when itcomes to building relationships.
One is frequency how frequentlyare you seeing people or are
you connecting with them?
So it's really hard to buildrelationships with people you
don't touch base with.
You have to have some amount oflike frequency.
So the people I'm trying tonurture relationships with, I
actively try to make sure I'mtouching base with them, like
(43:47):
once a month, and it could be assimple as commenting on their
social media post or I willoften subscribe to all their
newsletters and I'll, once aweek, sit down and I'll hit
reply.
People love that.
They know, hey, she actuallyreads our newsletters.
Yes, I do, and I'll hit replyif I think it's really good or
if I have something to share.
But it's the frequency and it'sthe consistency thing too.
(44:10):
You've got to consistently maketime for it, so it's just
become such a habit.
Now I don't really have tothink about it.
But, for example, I regularlyattend two or three things a
month here in Richmond, virginia.
I love having a local communityin addition to the online
community.
I have clients all around theworld, so I do have a
(44:33):
international community ofpeople that I'm connecting with
and talking to, and when I havethe chance to actually see them
in person, I try to.
But there's something aboutface to face in person that
deepens relationships, and so Itry to prioritize that as much
as I can in the settings that Iprefer, which is smaller,
(44:53):
preferably with food and wine.
Speaker 1 (44:56):
Yeah.
Is there anything that youwould share with your yourself
in your 20s, when you were firststarting your business, that
you something that you'velearned now that you would love
for her to know?
Speaker 2 (45:14):
What I would tell my 20 something self would probably
be that it's okay to putboundaries in place, because it
took me a long time to figurethat out, and especially
boundaries in my personal lifethat were taking away from the
life I wanted to build.
I was putting a lot of weightinto other people's opinions of
(45:39):
me and what they think I shoulddo, and that held me back for a
really, really long time.
But I am so grateful that 20something me got into therapy
and went on this healing journeyand learned some things about
myself, including that I canhandle a lot of stuff.
(46:01):
So I don't know, I think thatwould probably be the biggest
one boundaries.
Speaker 1 (46:07):
Yeah, yeah, I hear that I had a similar experience
when I was started my firstcompany in my 20s too, and got
into a lot of different kinds ofbusiness relationships and
personal relationships that justweren't the kinds that I really
wanted to be having as I grewand learned more about myself in
(46:31):
the world.
Speaker 2 (46:33):
It's one of the most important things we can do for
ourselves is learn how to putboundaries in place and, I also
think, learn how to again clearas kind, learn how to speak up
for yourself, learn how tonavigate difficult situations.
I think a lot of the challengesespecially women in business
have is the fear of having adifficult conversation or, if
(46:53):
anything feels uncomfortable,just freaking out about that.
But often the thing you want isjust one hard conversation away
.
Speaker 1 (47:05):
Well, thank you so much for this conversation.
I really appreciate it, and ifpeople would like to get in
contact with you or learn aboutworking with you, what's the
best way for them to do that?
Speaker 2 (47:17):
Well, I'm over on Instagram quite a lot, so I'd
encourage you to come find methere at Rachel Cook and let me
know what you take away fromthis conversation, and also come
check out the CEO collective Ifyou're a small business owner
who is ready to learn how tosustainably scale your business.
That is what we do, and weabsolutely love working with
(47:39):
women entrepreneurs who haveservice based businesses and are
ready to grow them, so wouldlove to support you over there.
Speaker 1 (47:49):
Hit subscribe to know when the next episodes come out
.
And, if you're feeling generous, please leave a review.
Reviews help other like mindedfolks find their way to this
resource.
If something you heard todaybrought a smile to your face or
a spark to your heart and you'dlike to connect with me, there
(48:10):
are a few ways to do that.
One is my newsletter, where Iput most of my time and energy
when I'm not working withclients or with my family or
working on this podcast Sorry,social media.
The newsletter is a mix of reallife stories, tips and tricks
(48:31):
and, of course, updates onwhat's happening with the
podcast.
Whenever something's going onwith me or in my business, it
always comes out there first.
Another resource that I have foryou is my guide to doing work
differently.
This guide takes you throughfour inquiries into how you can
(48:52):
build a more sustainable andequitable work environment for
yourself and your team.
It's a great place if you'relooking for somewhere to get
started.
Last, if you've got a burningquestion, a comment or a
situation you'd like my eyes on,you can email me.
All those links are in the shownotes.
(49:13):
Take care, brave soul, catchyou next time.
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