October 8, 2024 • 40 mins
We just got back from Volvo Days 2024 in Shippensburg, PA where we witnessed firsthand the silent power and versatility of Volvo CE's newest construction machinery, and found out what makes it perfect for today's evolving urban landscapes. We also lament the lost art of percolated coffee and marvel at the possibilities of an 8x8 Mack-onoline van. All this and more, on today's exciting HEP-isode of the Heavy Equipment Podcast!
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome back to another exciting episode of the
Heavy Equipment Podcast.
I'm your host, Joe Boras, hereas ever, with Mike hot, Mike
Schweitzer and Mike.
We just got back fromPennsylvania.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Yeah, we did the Volvo Days experience, which is
amazing.
That was a very good time.
Saw a lot of good product outthere.
One of the things thatimmediately grabbed my attention
when we were walking throughthe covered area over there was
the autonomous trailer thatwould follow you around and then
you can put material in it andit will take off and go put it
where you tell it to and comeback and find you.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
Yeah, the autonomous stuff was really cool and you
know we got separated a littlebit because there was just way
too much for any one person todo at Volvo, a lot of ground to
cover.
That thing was really cool.
It was an autonomous haulerthey call it an autonomous haul
truck and it had no passengercab, no place for a driver.
It just did its own thing,followed the excavator and then
when it was loaded it had likethose scales, the onboard scales
(00:58):
.
When it got to a hundredpercent capacity it would beep,
beep, beep.
100% capacity, it would beep,beep, beep and it would go and
take its load wherever it neededto go and then come back empty
for you to refill it again,which I thought was really neat.
But it was only one of a coupleof different autonomous things
that was out there.
They had an autonomous roller,a single roller compactor.
(01:19):
That was really cool.
That was like a big one wheel.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
If they offer that in multiple widths, I could
totally see that.
Where you could use it in atrench application, could use it
in a small sidewalk application.
You could use it in anapplication where you're trying
to button up just a soft underfooting before you pour some
concrete.
That's a really good, reallygood attachment.
Speaker 1 (01:40):
For sure.
And then they had theautonomous excavator.
They had that inside and theydidn't really paint a clear
picture of that.
They just kind of had a littleyou know EC-18 electric inside
and I was like, oh, this is kindof cool.
What's this about?
How come it's got you know someweird buttons in there and
they're like, yeah, it's totallyautonomous.
And I was like what.
Speaker 2 (02:07):
They were kind of shy about that.
They were all about the, thehaul trucks and and some of the
autonomous stuff outside.
But they were a little shyabout that and it makes me
wonder if there's going to beanother autonomous equipment
venue where we're going to beable to go out and take a look
at some of this stuff andactually operate it in a
controlled area.
Speaker 1 (02:20):
Well, I think it's worth noting, right?
So the whole constructionequipment kind of universe
revolves around ConExpo, whichis every three years.
And if you're in this Volvoline, if you're a Volvo dealer,
right, or you're in part ofVolvo's community, conexpo is
like year one, and then theyshow off the concepts and the
really far looking like this iswe're raising the bar here.
(02:42):
And then Volvo days is like hey, you're getting your first look
at the stuff that's going to bein production, going into
production, that you're going tobe selling next year.
And then the third year theybring in all the dealers, all
the sales guys, and train themup on the new product.
So because of COVID three yearsago, we didn't have Volvo days
(03:04):
to show off this pre-productionstuff.
So I think they're a little bitshy in that.
I think they were just kind oftrying to ease us back into this
normalcy, this new, normal idea.
And a shout out to Mike Metzgerand the guys at Rudd for
hanging out with us and showingus a lot of the operations there
, because those guys wereawesome.
Speaker 2 (03:21):
Yeah, rudd's a great organization.
They span many states andreally have a good foothold in
mining as well as day-to-dayconstruction and smaller regular
construction projects and cansupport everything from large
front shovels all the way down.
And I mean Rudd's been aroundfor a very long time.
Yeah, mike was a good dude, hewas showing us around, he got me
(03:42):
on a lot of the new electricgear.
He ran some of the electricwheel loaders.
He ran a small electric Miniwhich has its place when you
need ultra quiet and you got toget some stuff done and be on
your way.
That Mini has a total place forthat and a lot of
municipalities 100% should belooking at that.
They should be writing that ina spec.
(04:03):
100% should be looking at that.
They should be writing that ina spec because when you got to
show up in front of some lady'shouse or some guy's house and
you want to quietly fixsomething, you can do it with
that and make very little noise.
And another thing that theyhave a good offering on, which
has been overlooked, I think, bya lot of the contractors, is
that the wheeled excavator linethat they have is extensive.
(04:25):
They've got a small wheeledexcavator all the way up to some
larger units.
Again, every municipality,anybody that is doing any kind
of work on any kind of pavedsurface, should be looking at
that.
They offer just an array ofoptions and really will kind of
tailor it to what you want to do.
There's not enough people thatare selling the wheeled
(04:46):
excavators anymore.
I mean, they used to be apopular thing.
Komatsu, cat Case and JohnDeere had them, you know, and
it's kind of slimmed back.
They were hard sale for a while.
But I'm telling you that theyand then the other thing that
they offer we're talking aboutoptions.
Volo blew me away with theamount of what used to be custom
(05:07):
stuff that you would have tohave made for your excavator.
They offer as bolt-on optionsand you can order it right from
the factory.
That's one of the big benefitsfrom Volvo days alone is being
able to walk around as an enduser, look at stuff and go.
I didn't know I could order itthis way and they go.
Absolutely, you can get it.
This is how we sell it.
Speaker 1 (05:25):
Yeah, you bring that up.
I was really blown away.
When we were sitting there.
They started off the event withlike this 45 minute equipment
ballet.
You know where they're drivingstuff in close quarters and
doing maneuvers and things likethat.
And one of the excavators wasan EC two.
30, 30 ton unit right in frontof me was equipped with this
(05:46):
thing called a steel wrist atthe end of it, and the little
minute movements that you coulddo with this steel wrist
attachment was really impressive, especially as somebody who is
not an end user.
I write about this stuff, Ilook at it in pictures and check
it out in videos.
To see it do its thing six feetfrom me was really impressive.
Speaker 2 (06:08):
Oh, steel wrist is a really good product and they
have the.
It's a quick coupling hydraulicfitting mechanism that goes on
there too, if anybody's notfamiliar with it, allows you to
not have to get out and break afitting on an actual hose or use
a quick coupler manually.
With the fitting I'm talkingabout for the hydraulic hose,
you can just release it and grabyour next attachment.
(06:29):
I mean, there's maintenancewith anything, just like any of
that, but that steel wristallows you 360 degree movement
and allows it to oscillate in aweird way where you can.
Actually it's just like usingyour hand, but then it's got a
little grapple that comes out ofthe back of the body.
So not only can you dig andgrade and all that stuff, grab
whatever it is and place itwhere you want it.
(06:49):
I was stacking logs with it,like we're stacking small pieces
of wood with it.
It's incredible.
We really need to get the steelrisk guys on the podcast
because they they're justscratching what they can and
can't do with that thing and thecapability of that and the
weight capacity of that isphenomenal.
Speaker 1 (07:06):
Yeah, and you get the sense that like they're there
showing it off as one of themany options, optional add-ons
that you can get for theseexcavators.
But you get the sense that likethere is somebody over there at
Steel Wrist proper who's a realartist with this thing, who can
do some incredible stuff.
And they were just scratchingthe surface.
Speaker 2 (07:27):
Well, I expect to see them at Con Expo coming up too.
I mean, it still weighs out,but they ought to have their own
space where they are juststacking crazy items with an
excavator out there and placingthem like big Legos and showing
it off.
They need to have that outthere.
I'm sure they will, but that'dbe great.
Speaker 1 (07:46):
We need to get like a little local pop band to record
a jingle for those guys, ifthey don't already have one, so
we could play a Steel Wristcommercial right now.
Speaker 2 (07:53):
Oh, like an 80s hair band.
Speaker 1 (07:56):
Yeah, perfect, steel Wrist.
Speaker 3 (07:58):
Like it sounds like a ladder point.
Speaker 1 (08:00):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:06):
Or you could also do the light jazz.
You could also do like if you,if that calms you, you could
have the light jazz jingleplaying in the in your volvo cab
as you try to stack and movewhatever it is that you're
trying to do out there.
Speaker 1 (08:14):
That's so good you know what you know what is
different?
Speaker 2 (08:16):
you know they want, they want hyped up, they want
amped up like guys at the gym.
Right, they want to go in thereand get pumped.
They listen to some of theheaviest rock metal imaginable.
And then you got the other guysthat are just sitting back in
the seat soft music playing.
Speaker 1 (08:30):
They're just in their element you got the real
weirdos that are in therelistening to harry belafonte,
big brass kind of stuff thoseguys buy other brands you know
um I like that idea of a smoothjazz.
We should uh work in a chaseand sandborn commercial with
some smooth jazz chase andsandborn.
Speaker 3 (08:52):
This is the instant coffee that gives you full of
beans flavor, because instantchase and sandborn is full of
beans.
Speaker 1 (09:01):
Are they even still a company?
Like Like, honest question IsChase and Sanborn still a
company?
They sell coffee?
No, they don't.
Where Google it?
Yeah, they have a forum onlinewhere it says how did you hear
about us?
And one of the things is theHeavy Equipment Podcast.
Speaker 2 (09:18):
Hey, listen, you got to get up in the morning, you
got to get your day going andlast night you just got in late.
You were out of the job, latebecause something broke down and
your local equipment dealer wasout there and they needed a
hand.
You just get up and you're soreand you're tired and you're
still not sure about everything.
You walk over to that coffeemaker and if that Chase and
(09:40):
Sanborn is dripping out of thefilter, you know it's going to
be a good day and that's allthat matters.
You fill your cup up thermos,whatever it is the vessel that
you contain this with.
It's hard to because mostpeople drink it before they ever
make it to work.
It's that good.
Speaker 1 (09:57):
Have you ever had percolated coffee?
Speaker 2 (09:59):
That is some of the best.
That's a lost art.
Speaker 1 (10:02):
That is a lost art.
That is a lost art.
That is a lost art.
Speaker 2 (10:03):
Damn, mr Coffee.
And Mr Coffee, I'm going to goon a rant.
Let's do it.
Mr Coffee, here's the thing youwant to talk about heavy
equipment.
Let's talk about coffeeequipment.
If you've ever seen theBridgeport milling machine at
Coffee Makers, it's the onebehind the local diner.
It's steaming, it's backfiringon you.
Speaker 1 (10:29):
We're not quite sure how it gets the electricity that
it needs to heat the coffee upas fast as it does.
We don't care.
Speaker 2 (10:33):
But they took away a panel.
Yeah, you got to.
Basically, if you unplug thething, you could plug in a Tesla
.
So they got away from thepercolated coffee.
And when you were percolatingcoffee and you had six
percolators going and they allhad their own little burner.
And when you were percolatingcoffee and you had six
percolators going and they allhad their own little burner and
you let one sit a little bit forthe guys that like it burn a
little bit more, and you got onethat's kind of watered down so
(10:53):
it's not percolated as much.
That's lost art.
Speaker 1 (10:57):
And Mavis is gone.
She's been dead 20 years.
Speaker 2 (10:58):
Yeah, exactly, she's built like a burlap bag full of
bobcats.
She had it all together.
These people are gone in theindustry.
Speaker 1 (11:09):
She's built like a burlap bag full of bobcats.
I know exactly what you'retalking about.
I could walk you to that woman.
She was at the Flying J on I-95halfway through South Carolina.
Speaker 2 (11:20):
This predates Flying J.
This is when they were private.
Let's go back to an era in timewhen a guy come in off the road
and there's only enough spotsfor about 14 trucks or so in the
back and it's kind of Millie'struck stop, yeah, you walk in
and I don't know it's just.
Then you smell percolatingcoffee and that's it.
Speaker 1 (11:40):
There used to be one of those like real old school I
think probably less than 20trucks would be able to fit
there.
But it had a diner, it had someshowers, it had the phone bank.
It was right there offOkeechobee and you know where
the Florida Turnpike and I-4kind of would connect.
Right there in the middle ofFlorida.
Nothing but phosphate mines andswamp water, and it was great.
(12:04):
I used to stop there all thetime because I would uh be
driving up well water too.
Yeah, they, oh they definitelyhad well water and it was hard
water like you just get beltedby it exactly.
Speaker 2 (12:15):
Yeah, I used to hit that would scrape the calcium
out of the pots and throw itdown to melt the ice exactly
you'd take a shower in there,just like rip through your body,
oh man that was a great stop.
Speaker 1 (12:28):
I forgot about that.
That was, I think, in like 9596 is kind of when that shut
down.
But I got to stop there a fewtimes on my way between miami
and university of floridabecause the car didn't have air
conditioning 95 degrees in theswamp to sweat and Well, that's
the other thing.
Speaker 2 (12:45):
We talk about.
Days gone by.
I mean anybody that's beenaround heavy equipment for a
long time.
I mean, look at the amount ofexcavator and construction
equipment attachment companiesthat have gone away.
A lot of them have been boughtup.
You've got Caterpillar andVolvo are privately labeled in
their own stuff, along withDoosan, and then guys like
Workbrow have been out for along time.
(13:06):
Workbrow's coming out.
They have been a steady rock.
But there's another company inAkron, ohio We've mentioned them
before ACS.
They build a lot of stuff forthe military really good people.
Some of these companies I'm kindof curious and we need to get
them on too, because I'm kind ofcurious about where they're at
in development.
What are you developing with anexcavator bucket?
(13:27):
I mean, it's been played for along time.
But the one thing that hasn'tbeen and where a lot of them are
focusing energy and time on isground engaging tools and we
talk about this with bucketteeth and bucket tooth adapters,
some of the best stuff outthere right now.
(13:50):
Workbrow has ESCO has it forthe mining and mining and
caterpillar has it on theirstuff and all you know, all in
one tooth of the keeper,self-contained.
That is a pain point on anything.
When you're out there trying toget something done and the
tooth's dangling off of there,like you know, like some old guy
behind a dumpster and you'reand you're, you're just like,
please stay on there for therest of the day so I can be done
with this.
You already know the bucketshot because the tooth's
dangling around on there and youcan't put it back on correctly.
(14:11):
A new one, what do you have todo here?
You got your face.
Welding it on is what you'refaced with, and that just
degrades the whole shank.
All of this stuff, though,ultimately erodes profitability
and ultimately erodes uptime,which is what we're always
talking about.
Whether it's autonomous, it'selectric, whatever, how do you
(14:33):
utilize the stuff, but you haveto work with it, and steel wrist
and these buckets and all that.
That is a whole market thatreally is just dedicated to
servicing whatever you're tryingto get done, and I think it
gets overlooked a lot because we, you know, we talk about the
excavators, we talk about theOEMs, the wheel loaders and all
that but what's actually doingthe work.
Speaker 1 (14:53):
That's what's out front.
Yeah, that's the bucket.
Well, I think the other thingtoo is you know, you talked
about ACS, you talk about Doosanand obviously Doosan Bobcat
being kind of one company thereand talk about what's next and
what they're developing.
And when I was at CES back inJanuary, bobcat had a really
interesting they weren't alone,hyundai had this too.
They had a little bit.
It looked a little different,but it's the same idea where
they have almost like augmentedreality, like a Google glass.
(15:17):
So you're sitting in the caband, even though it's perfectly
clear and transparent, thatwhole front windshield
windscreen is a monitor and whatthey do is they project using
cameras and differentprojections.
They project to the caboperator through the bucket so
(15:38):
it makes it look like the bucketis invisible.
And then Bobcat went a stepfurther.
Through their robotics arm,they have a number of sensors
that allowed them to see gaslines and electrical lines in
the ground where they weredigging.
So they're not guessing andhoping that the surveyor wrote
it down properly.
They could actually see almostlike a radar in the ground where
(16:01):
these cables were.
Speaker 2 (16:03):
We touched on that before.
Speaker 1 (16:05):
Well, you know, we're in season two.
We touched on a lot of things.
Speaker 2 (16:07):
We're always touching on a lot of things.
That that's our problem.
Speaker 1 (16:11):
You gotta, you gotta stop touching that thing.
That's gonna be an hr call soon.
What?
Speaker 2 (16:15):
right, right.
Talk about degradation of uhproductivity.
Have hr stuff about that nextthing you listen.
Speaker 1 (16:22):
I was just preaching all listen.
That 22 minute video is sure todeprogram a billion years of
evolution.
That has you looking at janicein the lunchroom.
Listen listen.
Speaker 2 (16:36):
You end up with these , these hr nightmare calls, and
they're sitting there andthey're like oh, we got to do
training on this and oh, we gotto get affidavits, we got to
sign stuff.
Were we not doing it right tobegin with?
Speaker 1 (16:47):
Were we not doing it right?
No, I'm kidding, probably not.
Speaker 2 (16:50):
No, but seriously, that stuff with Bobcat and being
able to identify the utilitiesunderground, that's key.
You have to have that.
But Bobcat's been trying torelease some stuff out for a
while and then they getstonewalled a little bit yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:05):
And it was weird.
They got stonewalled by theirown people, right?
Because like, yeah, do sandbobcat.
Right, this was a a koreancompany, do sand that was making
similar bobcat equipment andforklifts material handlers in
korea and they did some kind ofmerger acquisition with bobcat
years ago.
This is not a new thing, butthere's always been Doosan
(17:28):
Robotics, which is a sensorcompany, an automation company.
They build manufacturing robotsand as more autonomy and more
technology comes into theequipment space, it seems like a
natural progression to mergethe robotics company with the
equipment company and theyannounced that they were going
to do that in June or July.
But there was a hugeshareholder revolt among the
(17:51):
Bobcat shareholders and theywere just basically doing a
sell-off and driving the stockprice down to prevent this
merger and I don't understandwhy that happened.
I mean, you can say, like youknow, the Americana super
conservative, patriotic investorsaying we don't want this to
become a Korean company, likethat ship has sailed dude.
Speaker 2 (18:12):
Yeah, I don't.
I don't know what's going onwith that either.
I mean it.
I think we're going to see moreand more of that as the years
go on.
I think we're going to seecompanies that want to move away
from what they're used to andthey're going to get pulled back
a little bit, and I reallythink the ones that are going to
truly succeed are the ones thatforge ahead.
Anybody that stays in the samelane the entire time, what
(18:37):
happens?
They get ran over.
Speaker 1 (18:39):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:40):
Caterpillar, people pick on them.
John Deere, hitachi, volvo,they've all tried stuff.
Does it always work?
Absolutely not, and they'rereal quick when you go up and
you ask about product.
And let me tell you, whenyou're working for a small
company or you're working for alarge company but you find this
one thing that the OEM makeslike a rubber tired excavator
(19:05):
and it fits in a segment of yourwork and you build your work
platform around that and thenyou call up and you're like, hey
, we're looking at uh you knowthree more of these this year.
They're like oh, I'm sorry we'renot able to get those, I can
try and find you some used ones.
You feel completely let down.
But at the same time, that'sjust a small group of people Now
(19:27):
.
Granted, maybe it didn't workout, maybe it wasn't what they
wanted to do and what theywanted to chase, that's okay.
But they tried it, they had itout there and they found
customers that wanted it.
That has happened decade afterdecade in this industry Trailer
manufacturers I mean, we cantalk about Rittenhour and we can
talk about Dunan and all theseguys.
(19:47):
Dunan doing is really good.
They build very custom trailersand if you want something, so
while bashing them, they owneverybody, they own a lot of
them.
And you got trail king and thenyou got, oh, you know, the
other guys.
But when it comes to likeregular flatbed work that's
another thing they have writtenour over the years has strayed
far from what.
(20:07):
The traditional aluminumtrailer, this is what we build,
and they have reinventedthemselves multiple times over.
And same with Dunin.
Dunin is another one.
If you want to steal trailer,that's custom.
They build it for you.
You're not going to find thatby a company that's just like no
, we only build X.
(20:28):
Well, that happened to Kodaktoo, and look where they're at.
Speaker 1 (20:33):
Yeah for sure.
So let's talk about this for asecond, because you're talking
about flatbeds, You're talkingabout, you know, these companies
that are like, really, reallyfocused.
I was checking out LionElectric and I know that you
know we were supposed to betalking about Volvo days,
because that's where we were forthree days, but I want to
change gears a little bit.
So Lion Electric, this is acompany that's in the US, made
(20:53):
in the USA, electric vehicles,unlike most OEMs and I'm talking
about even like GM and Ford andeven Tesla that buys batteries
from Panasonic and from BYD ID.
Lion is making its own batterypacks.
They're making their ownbatteries.
Right, they're very unique inthat sense.
(21:17):
They just rolled out the firstever fully electric class five
flatbed tow truck and I thinkthat's really interesting
because if you are in the repobusiness, you're in the recovery
business and you're pulling upto somebody in a you know 4,500
Dodge Ram and you're trying tohook somebody's F-150 that they
made payments on and get out ofthere before they come running
(21:37):
out of the house with a shotgun,If you can do that electric,
real quiet, without a wholebunch of hydraulics and crazy
exhaust, and I think you've gota real market advantage and I
know that that's kind of amessed up thing to be talking
about, but that's real life.
Speaker 2 (21:53):
That's a real life thing.
And then I mean the same thingwith okay, look at the Carvana
trucks.
Right, look at all the otherdelivery vehicles that can
profit from the fact that theyare quiet.
Have you ever heard an Amazonvan pull through your
development unless your tireshit the grave, the pound?
No, that's it.
You don't hear them.
Speaker 1 (22:13):
Not at all yeah, and I think that that's something
that I think is being overlookedis this idea, over and over
again, that when you have thisquiet operation, we're not
talking about a one-to-onereplacement, we're not saying
that everything should beelectric and that we should get
rid of diesel tomorrow.
There are people who say that,but they're not credible people,
(22:36):
just like the people who sayelectric is stupid and it'll
never happen.
They're not credible peopleeither.
It's a new technology, it's anew tool and it's going to have
its place and there's going tobe areas, there's going to be
niches within the environment,within the commercial
environment, that electric isgoing to occupy better than
(22:57):
diesel.
And I think this kind of assetrecovery, repo and towing you
know, even residential towingand delivery, I think, is going
to be a really big opportunityand I can't wait to see what Mac
does with their Mac MD line nothe Mac MD with the Jordan back
on it and then whether you liftor you got a flatbed, that's.
Speaker 2 (23:16):
that's another thing.
But listen, anybody.
Yes, it's new technology.
30 years ago, battery poweredelectric tools were never going
to make it.
Those don't work.
I only use it for an hour andit's dead.
Listen, look what we're doing.
Primarily it's what everybody'sgoing to.
Now they want cordless tools.
We're going to be in the sameboat.
(23:37):
You're absolutely right.
If you're running a small towingoperation, you're not going to
have a dozen of those, but yougot one in there.
You got to go out and go aroundthe corner and go pick
something up.
Maybe it's not even that.
Maybe somebody's car broke downat a school and during the day
you want to be able to quietlyshow up, pick the car up, take
(23:58):
it away without raising a bunchof eyebrows and drawing a bunch
of attention.
It's all about that.
It's the same thing as thegarbage packers for Mac and it's
the same thing.
Everybody's saying the samething.
You're not going to leave outof Miami, florida, and drive
that thing to Washington state.
That's not feasible.
But in a metro area whereyou're trying to get around and
(24:19):
come back and forth, that'swhere it fits.
It's the same thing I wassaying with the earlier, with
the Volvo technology and theelectric machines.
Every municipality should haveone of those.
Yeah, need them all.
Absolutely not.
They can't be your entire fleet, but there is a place for every
one of those A hundred percent,you know.
Speaker 1 (24:35):
And the other thing I wanted to talk about was
especially with that EW150,which was the wheeled excavator
that Volvo had at Volvo days.
I didn't get a chance to drivethat thing or operate it I was
talking to too many people, butthat was one I was really
interested in because it doeshave onboard battery.
It does have yeah, you read itcool.
I mean, did you realize thatyou can plug that into grid
(24:57):
power?
So like, literally, you'resitting there on the job site,
if you're in an urban area,urban environment where grid
power already exists, you canliterally just plug that thing
in to a 220 thing and, uh, andit just keeps operating without
using the batteries, yes, andthat's really cool.
Speaker 2 (25:17):
And and here's the other thing too, the other thing
I learned at volvo days which Istarted asking some questions
and I, and among some of theother oems and I, was getting
some crazy feedback like I don'tknow, yeah, but DC power.
So talking to the Europeanengineers which is one of the
best things about going to anyOEMs multi-day event is you talk
(25:38):
right to the people from thefactory, right?
They were saying that using 48volt DC power exponentially and
I'm talking tenfold shortensyour charge time.
Now there was another couple ofcompanies there with charging
cells I'll call it or chargingpacks.
They had eyelets on the top ofthem.
(25:59):
You can unload them, you couldset them down, you could take
and place these like you placebarrels on a job or like you
place job boxes.
It's the same kind of principle.
And they were like well, if youhave the right grid
infrastructure which is alwayskey, and we talk about that a
lot and that's what thenaysayers talk about they're
like you can put 48-volt DC toit, convert it and charge this
(26:21):
thing in five hours.
Speaker 1 (26:23):
Yeah, well, not only five hours.
I mean, if you've got access toyou know, like, if you're
putting, if you've got access toenough power, you can put 150
kilowatts into some of thesethings and charge them up in 20
minutes.
Speaker 3 (26:37):
No, no, no, no, this sucker's electrical, but I need
a nuclear reaction to generatethe 1.21 gigawatts of
electricity.
What did I just say?
The flux capacity stores.
Speaker 2 (27:11):
This sucker's electrical, but I need a nuclear
reaction to generate the 1.21gigawatts of when this thing
hits 88 miles an hour, you'regoing to see something.
Here's the thing, and I got totalk about this.
I had a long conversation withthe engineers about this.
I've had a long conversationover the years about this,
whether it's diesel driven orelectric driven, but even more
now today.
The electric driven equipmentexaggerates what I'm going to
talk about greatly.
(27:32):
Your true actual stick timemeaning every time you pull the
stick and every time you createa function is when you use power
.
Anybody that tracks actualproductivity of a machine and
I'm not talking when it'srunning and I'm not talking
about that.
It's sitting there idling.
(27:52):
You've eliminated all that whenyou're talking about electric
equipment.
Now we've gotten we've talkedto the case guys, about the case
backhoe.
This is a prime example, andthe same thing with the electric
wheel excavator prime exampleof utilization over power usage.
If you have that on a job andI'm going to keep going back to
(28:14):
municipalities, because they'renot dumb and they have to have a
variety of stuff with a limitedbudget, so think about that
yeah, they have trustee electedfunding and then they're allowed
to buy stuff trustee electedfunding and then they're allowed
to buy stuff.
So they have to make the rightchoice, because the minute they
piss that away they don't get it.
And the OEMs have all this data.
(28:36):
This isn't new.
They know that on average,somebody only uses a wheel
excavator 3.7 hours in a givenworkday, and they're only using
it 3.7 hours because the rest ofthe time is spent them getting
in and out of the cab, themrunning, running to break them
out in the hole, working withsomebody else.
That's your true run time,right?
So guys are like I can't get 10hours a day out of that
(28:58):
electric machine.
Of course not.
You're not using it in a miningapplication.
You're using it only when youneed it.
And when you pull the sticksomething happens, and that's
because it only when you need it.
And when you pull the stick,something happens, and that's
because it's electric.
You don't have all this.
You know we've talked aboutthis in other episodes, about
this Actual usage.
What do you actually use thisfor?
(29:19):
How much do you actually use it?
And then let's look at how wecan make it have power for that
actual day's work.
Speaker 1 (29:26):
Right and they have with their telematics they can
actually show all that and thatwas one of the things that I
went into that trailer and wereally looked at that and they
were talking about averagenumbers where it's in that three
and a half to four hour rangeon a full day shift.
So if you've got a vehicle witheight hours of runtime for a
(29:47):
charge, you can do back-to-backshifts and plug it in on an
eight-hour charge on a 220 voltand have it ready to go the next
morning.
So it's okay, it's fine and Ithink honestly it makes more
sense to electrify that kind ofthing on a job site where you're
(30:08):
using that three to four hoursof job site time, if that right,
versus something like anover-the-road semi or a big
electric garbage truck that hasto go into these rural areas
because you can deliver all thattorque, all that power, still
be quiet, still meet all thecompany or municipalities ESG
(30:29):
goals and it makes sense toelectrify there.
I think that arguably makesmore sense to electrify
construction equipment than itever has or ever will long haul
semi trucks.
Speaker 2 (30:41):
Well, right, and let's, let's look at it like
this.
So, on average I'm just talkingto average, because there are
companies out there that beatthis on both spectrums on
average, you're looking atanywhere between 500 and 800
hours a year on an excavator howmany are you talking about
engine hours?
you're talking about stick hoursengine hours, and this is what
I'm getting at.
(31:02):
The engine was on 500 to 800hours in a year's working year's
time.
How many working days are in ayear?
I figure 240, 250.
Okay, okay, so if it's 250 andyou only turn the hour meter
over 500 hours for the year,that's two hours a day.
Yeah, if it's 800, you'resomewhere in the neighborhood of
(31:26):
three to 3.4, something likethat, right, yep?
Now your actual productivitytime when you fire that thing up
and you run it is still back inthe two hour range on average.
Now you got days we're going toutilize it heavily and days
that it's just going to sitthere.
But what I'm saying is we'regoing to find out, just like we
(31:48):
found out with vehicles of thepast.
Anything that progresses, youstart to adapt your planning,
your scheduling and your workschedule around what is
available.
Yeah, so who cares if it onlyruns eight hours for the day on
electric, you're only going touse it four maybe five of the
(32:09):
day on electric.
You're only going to use it four, maybe five, yeah, and
realistically probably three.
Exactly.
Again, you're going to havesome.
You're going to have aball-busting job.
You got to bring a bunch ofguys out there.
You got 20 guys standing around.
You're gonna you're gonna havesome diesel equipment out there
that's making hay all day.
But then off in the corner arethose guys that are trying to
drill a hole with a small augerand pour in some sono tube
because they need to put a lightpole in.
(32:29):
Yeah, they're screwing aroundover there all day with like 20
processes and the one thing theyneed that mini for is to put an
auger hole in the ground well,and that's why I really like
this setup.
Speaker 1 (32:40):
I don't know if you saw sunbelt.
Sunbelt had a trailer mountedbattery pack and it was funny
because the autonomous haultruck was pulling up to it to
plug in right over there by theuh, you know by where they had
the dinners and everything else.
So looking at that piece ofequipment makes total sense
(33:01):
because you don't need, you know, a 40 kilowatt hour battery.
That's going to give you eightor 10 hours of continuous
runtime.
You just need two or threehours of continuous runtime If
you can store that energy in atrailer or quickly move that
energy from one machine toanother.
Like you know the way that thetrench compactor was set up to
(33:23):
use the weight of the batteriesas mass to push down and level
that trench, but then gave youthat 220 and those 110
connectors to transfer thatenergy where you need it.
And you start looking at thejob site not in terms of how
many hours of operation, butstart looking at it in terms of
(33:43):
how many watts of energy, notelectricity.
How much energy do we need toexpend to move those rocks, to
move that material, to move that?
Speaker 2 (33:54):
dirt.
Yeah, yeah, look at thecharging.
And then look at the.
Look at a capacitive dischargetype charging.
Right, that thing's pluggedinto the grid and it's soaking
up power while you're working.
That's it.
You pull up to it and then it'slike a lightning bolt went
through a rod and it's puttingthe power back into the machine
at an enormous, at a crazy rate.
And yeah, I'd like to see if wecan.
(34:16):
We got to find somebody fromSunbelt and talk to them about
this, because not just that, butthe fact that you can have
mobile charging come and go froma site and it's plugging into
the grid.
There are times where it's notgoing to work, but there are
times where you've got a powerdrop.
Anyways, you've got line peopleout there, you've got other
electrical things going on andyou say, look, I need a tap so I
(34:38):
can tap this trailer.
So while I'm in here buildingthis new Sheetz, we can keep
going here.
Speaker 3 (34:44):
That's it.
Speaker 2 (34:49):
Sheetz has enough power coming into it to charge
one of those trailers 24 sevenwhile you're working.
So when you do need it, thepower is stored in there and it
throws it right into the machine.
Speaker 1 (34:57):
Yeah, and that's all it needs to be.
It just needs to be somethingthat can take that power from
where you got it to the job sitewhere you need it, and get
enough energy in there to do thejob.
We talked a lot about, you know, the turn of the century, the
turn of the 20th century, whenwe were still talking about
horsepower in terms of how manyhorses you had on the job site
(35:20):
and then it was.
You know, this engine can do asmuch as four horses, this
engine can do as much as 10horses.
Well, now we're getting back tothat.
We're not talking about hours.
We're not talking about, youknow, the fuel itself being
expendable.
We're talking back in terms ofthe amount of energy, the amount
of work that needs to be done.
So I'm really excited about it.
(35:41):
I think it was a really coolevent.
Speaker 2 (35:43):
Um, and you know I'm really disappointed, we didn't
get to go see Fallingwaterthey're only closed on
Wednesdays they're only closedon Wednesdays the day that we
get off the Beaver exit to takea look at it and we go, wow,
we're this close, we're going torun over there.
You know what?
Shout out to the guy with thecigarette in his ear for letting
us know that when he pulled outof the gate and told us hey,
(36:07):
it's like when you what is thatsummer vacation or whatever it's
called, where they pull up towally world and they're closed?
Oh yeah, we were almost at thatpoint.
So you think we should haveheld him hostage with a bb gun?
I know, I think we should havesaid hey, we're going in, yeah
and then just walked in.
Speaker 1 (36:27):
Well, if we had been in the Mac granite, we could
have made that happen.
What's he going to do?
Stop us with that littleeclipse.
There's nothing he was going todo.
Speaker 2 (36:34):
What you need, though , is you need the Mac MD with
front wheel drive added to it.
Do they have that?
Well, there's a company outthere that adds them on, and let
me tell you, the Europeanmarket has the Unimog.
Yeah, we have the MacMDFour-wheel drive, and if you
need to get somewhere, it'sgoing to go up and over it.
Speaker 3 (37:02):
Medba, you are going to take the shortcut to the
interstate, aren't you?
You're here to win, ain't we?
If you're going to be a bear bea grizzly.
Speaker 1 (37:19):
Oh, that's a good one , yes, man.
So apparently you can get theMac MD as an 8x8.
Correct, we got to get one ofthose.
What are we going to do as an8x8.
Correct, we got to get one ofthose.
What are we going to do with an8x8?
Speaker 2 (37:31):
I don't know I'll put a van body in the back of it,
drive it around like a bigEconoline van.
Those are gone.
Those are gone.
That's true, mac-a-line.
Speaker 1 (37:42):
Mac-a-no-line.
Speaker 2 (37:43):
Yeah, Mac-a-no-line Line of vans.
Do you need to throw it in theback and take it somewhere?
It shouldn't be.
This is what you use.
Speaker 1 (37:51):
Can you imagine just some crazy, severe-duty 8x8
monster with a full van body inthe back?
Speaker 2 (37:59):
Let me tell you 2026, you're going to see the A-Team
come back yet again with a newMack-O-Liner.
Speaker 1 (38:07):
Oh, there you go.
Hey, remember that time we hada petition going to change the
national anthem to the 18 themesong.
Let's play that now.
Speaker 3 (38:16):
In 1972, a crack commando unit was sent to prison
by a military court for a crimethey didn't commit.
These men promptly escaped froma maximum security stockade to
the Los Angeles underground.
Today still wanted by thegovernment, they survive as
soldiers of fortune.
If you have a problem, if noone else can help and if you can
find them, maybe you can hirethe A-Team.
I think we're done.
Speaker 2 (39:02):
We've touched all four corners of hell on that one
.
Speaker 1 (39:05):
We kept touching things.
We got HR on the phone.
We got the A-team going, we'redone.
That's on that one.
We kept touching things.
We got HR on the phone, we gotthe A-team going, we're done.
That's a good one.
That's a good one.
I thought that was a good one.
Welcome back to another exciting episode of the
Heavy Equipment Podcast.
I'm your host, Joe Boras, hereas ever, with Mike hot, Mike
Schweitzer and Mike.
We just got back fromPennsylvania.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Yeah, we did the Volvo Days experience, which is
amazing.
That was a very good time.
Saw a lot of good product outthere.
One of the things thatimmediately grabbed my attention
when we were walking throughthe covered area over there was
the autonomous trailer thatwould follow you around and then
you can put material in it andit will take off and go put it
where you tell it to and comeback and find you.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
Yeah, the autonomous stuff was really cool and you
know we got separated a littlebit because there was just way
too much for any one person todo at Volvo, a lot of ground to
cover.
That thing was really cool.
It was an autonomous haulerthey call it an autonomous haul
truck and it had no passengercab, no place for a driver.
It just did its own thing,followed the excavator and then
when it was loaded it had likethose scales, the onboard scales
(00:58):
.
When it got to a hundredpercent capacity it would beep,
beep, beep.
100% capacity, it would beep,beep, beep and it would go and
take its load wherever it neededto go and then come back empty
for you to refill it again,which I thought was really neat.
But it was only one of a coupleof different autonomous things
that was out there.
They had an autonomous roller,a single roller compactor.
(01:19):
That was really cool.
That was like a big one wheel.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
If they offer that in multiple widths, I could
totally see that.
Where you could use it in atrench application, could use it
in a small sidewalk application.
You could use it in anapplication where you're trying
to button up just a soft underfooting before you pour some
concrete.
That's a really good, reallygood attachment.
Speaker 1 (01:40):
For sure.
And then they had theautonomous excavator.
They had that inside and theydidn't really paint a clear
picture of that.
They just kind of had a littleyou know EC-18 electric inside
and I was like, oh, this is kindof cool.
What's this about?
How come it's got you know someweird buttons in there and
they're like, yeah, it's totallyautonomous.
And I was like what.
Speaker 2 (02:07):
They were kind of shy about that.
They were all about the, thehaul trucks and and some of the
autonomous stuff outside.
But they were a little shyabout that and it makes me
wonder if there's going to beanother autonomous equipment
venue where we're going to beable to go out and take a look
at some of this stuff andactually operate it in a
controlled area.
Speaker 1 (02:20):
Well, I think it's worth noting, right?
So the whole constructionequipment kind of universe
revolves around ConExpo, whichis every three years.
And if you're in this Volvoline, if you're a Volvo dealer,
right, or you're in part ofVolvo's community, conexpo is
like year one, and then theyshow off the concepts and the
really far looking like this iswe're raising the bar here.
(02:42):
And then Volvo days is like hey, you're getting your first look
at the stuff that's going to bein production, going into
production, that you're going tobe selling next year.
And then the third year theybring in all the dealers, all
the sales guys, and train themup on the new product.
So because of COVID three yearsago, we didn't have Volvo days
(03:04):
to show off this pre-productionstuff.
So I think they're a little bitshy in that.
I think they were just kind oftrying to ease us back into this
normalcy, this new, normal idea.
And a shout out to Mike Metzgerand the guys at Rudd for
hanging out with us and showingus a lot of the operations there
, because those guys wereawesome.
Speaker 2 (03:21):
Yeah, rudd's a great organization.
They span many states andreally have a good foothold in
mining as well as day-to-dayconstruction and smaller regular
construction projects and cansupport everything from large
front shovels all the way down.
And I mean Rudd's been aroundfor a very long time.
Yeah, mike was a good dude, hewas showing us around, he got me
(03:42):
on a lot of the new electricgear.
He ran some of the electricwheel loaders.
He ran a small electric Miniwhich has its place when you
need ultra quiet and you got toget some stuff done and be on
your way.
That Mini has a total place forthat and a lot of
municipalities 100% should belooking at that.
They should be writing that ina spec.
(04:03):
100% should be looking at that.
They should be writing that ina spec because when you got to
show up in front of some lady'shouse or some guy's house and
you want to quietly fixsomething, you can do it with
that and make very little noise.
And another thing that theyhave a good offering on, which
has been overlooked, I think, bya lot of the contractors, is
that the wheeled excavator linethat they have is extensive.
(04:25):
They've got a small wheeledexcavator all the way up to some
larger units.
Again, every municipality,anybody that is doing any kind
of work on any kind of pavedsurface, should be looking at
that.
They offer just an array ofoptions and really will kind of
tailor it to what you want to do.
There's not enough people thatare selling the wheeled
(04:46):
excavators anymore.
I mean, they used to be apopular thing.
Komatsu, cat Case and JohnDeere had them, you know, and
it's kind of slimmed back.
They were hard sale for a while.
But I'm telling you that theyand then the other thing that
they offer we're talking aboutoptions.
Volo blew me away with theamount of what used to be custom
(05:07):
stuff that you would have tohave made for your excavator.
They offer as bolt-on optionsand you can order it right from
the factory.
That's one of the big benefitsfrom Volvo days alone is being
able to walk around as an enduser, look at stuff and go.
I didn't know I could order itthis way and they go.
Absolutely, you can get it.
This is how we sell it.
Speaker 1 (05:25):
Yeah, you bring that up.
I was really blown away.
When we were sitting there.
They started off the event withlike this 45 minute equipment
ballet.
You know where they're drivingstuff in close quarters and
doing maneuvers and things likethat.
And one of the excavators wasan EC two.
30, 30 ton unit right in frontof me was equipped with this
(05:46):
thing called a steel wrist atthe end of it, and the little
minute movements that you coulddo with this steel wrist
attachment was really impressive, especially as somebody who is
not an end user.
I write about this stuff, Ilook at it in pictures and check
it out in videos.
To see it do its thing six feetfrom me was really impressive.
Speaker 2 (06:08):
Oh, steel wrist is a really good product and they
have the.
It's a quick coupling hydraulicfitting mechanism that goes on
there too, if anybody's notfamiliar with it, allows you to
not have to get out and break afitting on an actual hose or use
a quick coupler manually.
With the fitting I'm talkingabout for the hydraulic hose,
you can just release it and grabyour next attachment.
(06:29):
I mean, there's maintenancewith anything, just like any of
that, but that steel wristallows you 360 degree movement
and allows it to oscillate in aweird way where you can.
Actually it's just like usingyour hand, but then it's got a
little grapple that comes out ofthe back of the body.
So not only can you dig andgrade and all that stuff, grab
whatever it is and place itwhere you want it.
(06:49):
I was stacking logs with it,like we're stacking small pieces
of wood with it.
It's incredible.
We really need to get the steelrisk guys on the podcast
because they they're justscratching what they can and
can't do with that thing and thecapability of that and the
weight capacity of that isphenomenal.
Speaker 1 (07:06):
Yeah, and you get the sense that like they're there
showing it off as one of themany options, optional add-ons
that you can get for theseexcavators.
But you get the sense that likethere is somebody over there at
Steel Wrist proper who's a realartist with this thing, who can
do some incredible stuff.
And they were just scratchingthe surface.
Speaker 2 (07:27):
Well, I expect to see them at Con Expo coming up too.
I mean, it still weighs out,but they ought to have their own
space where they are juststacking crazy items with an
excavator out there and placingthem like big Legos and showing
it off.
They need to have that outthere.
I'm sure they will, but that'dbe great.
Speaker 1 (07:46):
We need to get like a little local pop band to record
a jingle for those guys, ifthey don't already have one, so
we could play a Steel Wristcommercial right now.
Speaker 2 (07:53):
Oh, like an 80s hair band.
Speaker 1 (07:56):
Yeah, perfect, steel Wrist.
Speaker 3 (07:58):
Like it sounds like a ladder point.
Speaker 1 (08:00):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:06):
Or you could also do the light jazz.
You could also do like if you,if that calms you, you could
have the light jazz jingleplaying in the in your volvo cab
as you try to stack and movewhatever it is that you're
trying to do out there.
Speaker 1 (08:14):
That's so good you know what you know what is
different?
Speaker 2 (08:16):
you know they want, they want hyped up, they want
amped up like guys at the gym.
Right, they want to go in thereand get pumped.
They listen to some of theheaviest rock metal imaginable.
And then you got the other guysthat are just sitting back in
the seat soft music playing.
Speaker 1 (08:30):
They're just in their element you got the real
weirdos that are in therelistening to harry belafonte,
big brass kind of stuff thoseguys buy other brands you know
um I like that idea of a smoothjazz.
We should uh work in a chaseand sandborn commercial with
some smooth jazz chase andsandborn.
Speaker 3 (08:52):
This is the instant coffee that gives you full of
beans flavor, because instantchase and sandborn is full of
beans.
Speaker 1 (09:01):
Are they even still a company?
Like Like, honest question IsChase and Sanborn still a
company?
They sell coffee?
No, they don't.
Where Google it?
Yeah, they have a forum onlinewhere it says how did you hear
about us?
And one of the things is theHeavy Equipment Podcast.
Speaker 2 (09:18):
Hey, listen, you got to get up in the morning, you
got to get your day going andlast night you just got in late.
You were out of the job, latebecause something broke down and
your local equipment dealer wasout there and they needed a
hand.
You just get up and you're soreand you're tired and you're
still not sure about everything.
You walk over to that coffeemaker and if that Chase and
(09:40):
Sanborn is dripping out of thefilter, you know it's going to
be a good day and that's allthat matters.
You fill your cup up thermos,whatever it is the vessel that
you contain this with.
It's hard to because mostpeople drink it before they ever
make it to work.
It's that good.
Speaker 1 (09:57):
Have you ever had percolated coffee?
Speaker 2 (09:59):
That is some of the best.
That's a lost art.
Speaker 1 (10:02):
That is a lost art.
That is a lost art.
That is a lost art.
Speaker 2 (10:03):
Damn, mr Coffee.
And Mr Coffee, I'm going to goon a rant.
Let's do it.
Mr Coffee, here's the thing youwant to talk about heavy
equipment.
Let's talk about coffeeequipment.
If you've ever seen theBridgeport milling machine at
Coffee Makers, it's the onebehind the local diner.
It's steaming, it's backfiringon you.
Speaker 1 (10:29):
We're not quite sure how it gets the electricity that
it needs to heat the coffee upas fast as it does.
We don't care.
Speaker 2 (10:33):
But they took away a panel.
Yeah, you got to.
Basically, if you unplug thething, you could plug in a Tesla
.
So they got away from thepercolated coffee.
And when you were percolatingcoffee and you had six
percolators going and they allhad their own little burner.
And when you were percolatingcoffee and you had six
percolators going and they allhad their own little burner and
you let one sit a little bit forthe guys that like it burn a
little bit more, and you got onethat's kind of watered down so
(10:53):
it's not percolated as much.
That's lost art.
Speaker 1 (10:57):
And Mavis is gone.
She's been dead 20 years.
Speaker 2 (10:58):
Yeah, exactly, she's built like a burlap bag full of
bobcats.
She had it all together.
These people are gone in theindustry.
Speaker 1 (11:09):
She's built like a burlap bag full of bobcats.
I know exactly what you'retalking about.
I could walk you to that woman.
She was at the Flying J on I-95halfway through South Carolina.
Speaker 2 (11:20):
This predates Flying J.
This is when they were private.
Let's go back to an era in timewhen a guy come in off the road
and there's only enough spotsfor about 14 trucks or so in the
back and it's kind of Millie'struck stop, yeah, you walk in
and I don't know it's just.
Then you smell percolatingcoffee and that's it.
Speaker 1 (11:40):
There used to be one of those like real old school I
think probably less than 20trucks would be able to fit
there.
But it had a diner, it had someshowers, it had the phone bank.
It was right there offOkeechobee and you know where
the Florida Turnpike and I-4kind of would connect.
Right there in the middle ofFlorida.
Nothing but phosphate mines andswamp water, and it was great.
(12:04):
I used to stop there all thetime because I would uh be
driving up well water too.
Yeah, they, oh they definitelyhad well water and it was hard
water like you just get beltedby it exactly.
Speaker 2 (12:15):
Yeah, I used to hit that would scrape the calcium
out of the pots and throw itdown to melt the ice exactly
you'd take a shower in there,just like rip through your body,
oh man that was a great stop.
Speaker 1 (12:28):
I forgot about that.
That was, I think, in like 9596 is kind of when that shut
down.
But I got to stop there a fewtimes on my way between miami
and university of floridabecause the car didn't have air
conditioning 95 degrees in theswamp to sweat and Well, that's
the other thing.
Speaker 2 (12:45):
We talk about.
Days gone by.
I mean anybody that's beenaround heavy equipment for a
long time.
I mean, look at the amount ofexcavator and construction
equipment attachment companiesthat have gone away.
A lot of them have been boughtup.
You've got Caterpillar andVolvo are privately labeled in
their own stuff, along withDoosan, and then guys like
Workbrow have been out for along time.
(13:06):
Workbrow's coming out.
They have been a steady rock.
But there's another company inAkron, ohio We've mentioned them
before ACS.
They build a lot of stuff forthe military really good people.
Some of these companies I'm kindof curious and we need to get
them on too, because I'm kind ofcurious about where they're at
in development.
What are you developing with anexcavator bucket?
(13:27):
I mean, it's been played for along time.
But the one thing that hasn'tbeen and where a lot of them are
focusing energy and time on isground engaging tools and we
talk about this with bucketteeth and bucket tooth adapters,
some of the best stuff outthere right now.
(13:50):
Workbrow has ESCO has it forthe mining and mining and
caterpillar has it on theirstuff and all you know, all in
one tooth of the keeper,self-contained.
That is a pain point on anything.
When you're out there trying toget something done and the
tooth's dangling off of there,like you know, like some old guy
behind a dumpster and you'reand you're, you're just like,
please stay on there for therest of the day so I can be done
with this.
You already know the bucketshot because the tooth's
dangling around on there and youcan't put it back on correctly.
(14:11):
A new one, what do you have todo here?
You got your face.
Welding it on is what you'refaced with, and that just
degrades the whole shank.
All of this stuff, though,ultimately erodes profitability
and ultimately erodes uptime,which is what we're always
talking about.
Whether it's autonomous, it'selectric, whatever, how do you
(14:33):
utilize the stuff, but you haveto work with it, and steel wrist
and these buckets and all that.
That is a whole market thatreally is just dedicated to
servicing whatever you're tryingto get done, and I think it
gets overlooked a lot because we, you know, we talk about the
excavators, we talk about theOEMs, the wheel loaders and all
that but what's actually doingthe work.
Speaker 1 (14:53):
That's what's out front.
Yeah, that's the bucket.
Well, I think the other thingtoo is you know, you talked
about ACS, you talk about Doosanand obviously Doosan Bobcat
being kind of one company thereand talk about what's next and
what they're developing.
And when I was at CES back inJanuary, bobcat had a really
interesting they weren't alone,hyundai had this too.
They had a little bit.
It looked a little different,but it's the same idea where
they have almost like augmentedreality, like a Google glass.
(15:17):
So you're sitting in the caband, even though it's perfectly
clear and transparent, thatwhole front windshield
windscreen is a monitor and whatthey do is they project using
cameras and differentprojections.
They project to the caboperator through the bucket so
(15:38):
it makes it look like the bucketis invisible.
And then Bobcat went a stepfurther.
Through their robotics arm,they have a number of sensors
that allowed them to see gaslines and electrical lines in
the ground where they weredigging.
So they're not guessing andhoping that the surveyor wrote
it down properly.
They could actually see almostlike a radar in the ground where
(16:01):
these cables were.
Speaker 2 (16:03):
We touched on that before.
Speaker 1 (16:05):
Well, you know, we're in season two.
We touched on a lot of things.
Speaker 2 (16:07):
We're always touching on a lot of things.
That that's our problem.
Speaker 1 (16:11):
You gotta, you gotta stop touching that thing.
That's gonna be an hr call soon.
What?
Speaker 2 (16:15):
right, right.
Talk about degradation of uhproductivity.
Have hr stuff about that nextthing you listen.
Speaker 1 (16:22):
I was just preaching all listen.
That 22 minute video is sure todeprogram a billion years of
evolution.
That has you looking at janicein the lunchroom.
Listen listen.
Speaker 2 (16:36):
You end up with these , these hr nightmare calls, and
they're sitting there andthey're like oh, we got to do
training on this and oh, we gotto get affidavits, we got to
sign stuff.
Were we not doing it right tobegin with?
Speaker 1 (16:47):
Were we not doing it right?
No, I'm kidding, probably not.
Speaker 2 (16:50):
No, but seriously, that stuff with Bobcat and being
able to identify the utilitiesunderground, that's key.
You have to have that.
But Bobcat's been trying torelease some stuff out for a
while and then they getstonewalled a little bit yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:05):
And it was weird.
They got stonewalled by theirown people, right?
Because like, yeah, do sandbobcat.
Right, this was a a koreancompany, do sand that was making
similar bobcat equipment andforklifts material handlers in
korea and they did some kind ofmerger acquisition with bobcat
years ago.
This is not a new thing, butthere's always been Doosan
(17:28):
Robotics, which is a sensorcompany, an automation company.
They build manufacturing robotsand as more autonomy and more
technology comes into theequipment space, it seems like a
natural progression to mergethe robotics company with the
equipment company and theyannounced that they were going
to do that in June or July.
But there was a hugeshareholder revolt among the
(17:51):
Bobcat shareholders and theywere just basically doing a
sell-off and driving the stockprice down to prevent this
merger and I don't understandwhy that happened.
I mean, you can say, like youknow, the Americana super
conservative, patriotic investorsaying we don't want this to
become a Korean company, likethat ship has sailed dude.
Speaker 2 (18:12):
Yeah, I don't.
I don't know what's going onwith that either.
I mean it.
I think we're going to see moreand more of that as the years
go on.
I think we're going to seecompanies that want to move away
from what they're used to andthey're going to get pulled back
a little bit, and I reallythink the ones that are going to
truly succeed are the ones thatforge ahead.
Anybody that stays in the samelane the entire time, what
(18:37):
happens?
They get ran over.
Speaker 1 (18:39):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:40):
Caterpillar, people pick on them.
John Deere, hitachi, volvo,they've all tried stuff.
Does it always work?
Absolutely not, and they'rereal quick when you go up and
you ask about product.
And let me tell you, whenyou're working for a small
company or you're working for alarge company but you find this
one thing that the OEM makeslike a rubber tired excavator
(19:05):
and it fits in a segment of yourwork and you build your work
platform around that and thenyou call up and you're like, hey
, we're looking at uh you knowthree more of these this year.
They're like oh, I'm sorry we'renot able to get those, I can
try and find you some used ones.
You feel completely let down.
But at the same time, that'sjust a small group of people Now
(19:27):
.
Granted, maybe it didn't workout, maybe it wasn't what they
wanted to do and what theywanted to chase, that's okay.
But they tried it, they had itout there and they found
customers that wanted it.
That has happened decade afterdecade in this industry Trailer
manufacturers I mean, we cantalk about Rittenhour and we can
talk about Dunan and all theseguys.
(19:47):
Dunan doing is really good.
They build very custom trailersand if you want something, so
while bashing them, they owneverybody, they own a lot of
them.
And you got trail king and thenyou got, oh, you know, the
other guys.
But when it comes to likeregular flatbed work that's
another thing they have writtenour over the years has strayed
far from what.
(20:07):
The traditional aluminumtrailer, this is what we build,
and they have reinventedthemselves multiple times over.
And same with Dunin.
Dunin is another one.
If you want to steal trailer,that's custom.
They build it for you.
You're not going to find thatby a company that's just like no
, we only build X.
(20:28):
Well, that happened to Kodaktoo, and look where they're at.
Speaker 1 (20:33):
Yeah for sure.
So let's talk about this for asecond, because you're talking
about flatbeds, You're talkingabout, you know, these companies
that are like, really, reallyfocused.
I was checking out LionElectric and I know that you
know we were supposed to betalking about Volvo days,
because that's where we were forthree days, but I want to
change gears a little bit.
So Lion Electric, this is acompany that's in the US, made
(20:53):
in the USA, electric vehicles,unlike most OEMs and I'm talking
about even like GM and Ford andeven Tesla that buys batteries
from Panasonic and from BYD ID.
Lion is making its own batterypacks.
They're making their ownbatteries.
Right, they're very unique inthat sense.
(21:17):
They just rolled out the firstever fully electric class five
flatbed tow truck and I thinkthat's really interesting
because if you are in the repobusiness, you're in the recovery
business and you're pulling upto somebody in a you know 4,500
Dodge Ram and you're trying tohook somebody's F-150 that they
made payments on and get out ofthere before they come running
(21:37):
out of the house with a shotgun,If you can do that electric,
real quiet, without a wholebunch of hydraulics and crazy
exhaust, and I think you've gota real market advantage and I
know that that's kind of amessed up thing to be talking
about, but that's real life.
Speaker 2 (21:53):
That's a real life thing.
And then I mean the same thingwith okay, look at the Carvana
trucks.
Right, look at all the otherdelivery vehicles that can
profit from the fact that theyare quiet.
Have you ever heard an Amazonvan pull through your
development unless your tireshit the grave, the pound?
No, that's it.
You don't hear them.
Speaker 1 (22:13):
Not at all yeah, and I think that that's something
that I think is being overlookedis this idea, over and over
again, that when you have thisquiet operation, we're not
talking about a one-to-onereplacement, we're not saying
that everything should beelectric and that we should get
rid of diesel tomorrow.
There are people who say that,but they're not credible people,
(22:36):
just like the people who sayelectric is stupid and it'll
never happen.
They're not credible peopleeither.
It's a new technology, it's anew tool and it's going to have
its place and there's going tobe areas, there's going to be
niches within the environment,within the commercial
environment, that electric isgoing to occupy better than
(22:57):
diesel.
And I think this kind of assetrecovery, repo and towing you
know, even residential towingand delivery, I think, is going
to be a really big opportunityand I can't wait to see what Mac
does with their Mac MD line nothe Mac MD with the Jordan back
on it and then whether you liftor you got a flatbed, that's.
Speaker 2 (23:16):
that's another thing.
But listen, anybody.
Yes, it's new technology.
30 years ago, battery poweredelectric tools were never going
to make it.
Those don't work.
I only use it for an hour andit's dead.
Listen, look what we're doing.
Primarily it's what everybody'sgoing to.
Now they want cordless tools.
We're going to be in the sameboat.
(23:37):
You're absolutely right.
If you're running a small towingoperation, you're not going to
have a dozen of those, but yougot one in there.
You got to go out and go aroundthe corner and go pick
something up.
Maybe it's not even that.
Maybe somebody's car broke downat a school and during the day
you want to be able to quietlyshow up, pick the car up, take
(23:58):
it away without raising a bunchof eyebrows and drawing a bunch
of attention.
It's all about that.
It's the same thing as thegarbage packers for Mac and it's
the same thing.
Everybody's saying the samething.
You're not going to leave outof Miami, florida, and drive
that thing to Washington state.
That's not feasible.
But in a metro area whereyou're trying to get around and
(24:19):
come back and forth, that'swhere it fits.
It's the same thing I wassaying with the earlier, with
the Volvo technology and theelectric machines.
Every municipality should haveone of those.
Yeah, need them all.
Absolutely not.
They can't be your entire fleet, but there is a place for every
one of those A hundred percent,you know.
Speaker 1 (24:35):
And the other thing I wanted to talk about was
especially with that EW150,which was the wheeled excavator
that Volvo had at Volvo days.
I didn't get a chance to drivethat thing or operate it I was
talking to too many people, butthat was one I was really
interested in because it doeshave onboard battery.
It does have yeah, you read itcool.
I mean, did you realize thatyou can plug that into grid
(24:57):
power?
So like, literally, you'resitting there on the job site,
if you're in an urban area,urban environment where grid
power already exists, you canliterally just plug that thing
in to a 220 thing and, uh, andit just keeps operating without
using the batteries, yes, andthat's really cool.
Speaker 2 (25:17):
And and here's the other thing too, the other thing
I learned at volvo days which Istarted asking some questions
and I, and among some of theother oems and I, was getting
some crazy feedback like I don'tknow, yeah, but DC power.
So talking to the Europeanengineers which is one of the
best things about going to anyOEMs multi-day event is you talk
(25:38):
right to the people from thefactory, right?
They were saying that using 48volt DC power exponentially and
I'm talking tenfold shortensyour charge time.
Now there was another couple ofcompanies there with charging
cells I'll call it or chargingpacks.
They had eyelets on the top ofthem.
(25:59):
You can unload them, you couldset them down, you could take
and place these like you placebarrels on a job or like you
place job boxes.
It's the same kind of principle.
And they were like well, if youhave the right grid
infrastructure which is alwayskey, and we talk about that a
lot and that's what thenaysayers talk about they're
like you can put 48-volt DC toit, convert it and charge this
(26:21):
thing in five hours.
Speaker 1 (26:23):
Yeah, well, not only five hours.
I mean, if you've got access toyou know, like, if you're
putting, if you've got access toenough power, you can put 150
kilowatts into some of thesethings and charge them up in 20
minutes.
Speaker 3 (26:37):
No, no, no, no, this sucker's electrical, but I need
a nuclear reaction to generatethe 1.21 gigawatts of
electricity.
What did I just say?
The flux capacity stores.
Speaker 2 (27:11):
This sucker's electrical, but I need a nuclear
reaction to generate the 1.21gigawatts of when this thing
hits 88 miles an hour, you'regoing to see something.
Here's the thing, and I got totalk about this.
I had a long conversation withthe engineers about this.
I've had a long conversationover the years about this,
whether it's diesel driven orelectric driven, but even more
now today.
The electric driven equipmentexaggerates what I'm going to
talk about greatly.
(27:32):
Your true actual stick timemeaning every time you pull the
stick and every time you createa function is when you use power
.
Anybody that tracks actualproductivity of a machine and
I'm not talking when it'srunning and I'm not talking
about that.
It's sitting there idling.
(27:52):
You've eliminated all that whenyou're talking about electric
equipment.
Now we've gotten we've talkedto the case guys, about the case
backhoe.
This is a prime example, andthe same thing with the electric
wheel excavator prime exampleof utilization over power usage.
If you have that on a job andI'm going to keep going back to
(28:14):
municipalities, because they'renot dumb and they have to have a
variety of stuff with a limitedbudget, so think about that
yeah, they have trustee electedfunding and then they're allowed
to buy stuff trustee electedfunding and then they're allowed
to buy stuff.
So they have to make the rightchoice, because the minute they
piss that away they don't get it.
And the OEMs have all this data.
(28:36):
This isn't new.
They know that on average,somebody only uses a wheel
excavator 3.7 hours in a givenworkday, and they're only using
it 3.7 hours because the rest ofthe time is spent them getting
in and out of the cab, themrunning, running to break them
out in the hole, working withsomebody else.
That's your true run time,right?
So guys are like I can't get 10hours a day out of that
(28:58):
electric machine.
Of course not.
You're not using it in a miningapplication.
You're using it only when youneed it.
And when you pull the sticksomething happens, and that's
because it only when you need it.
And when you pull the stick,something happens, and that's
because it's electric.
You don't have all this.
You know we've talked aboutthis in other episodes, about
this Actual usage.
What do you actually use thisfor?
(29:19):
How much do you actually use it?
And then let's look at how wecan make it have power for that
actual day's work.
Speaker 1 (29:26):
Right and they have with their telematics they can
actually show all that and thatwas one of the things that I
went into that trailer and wereally looked at that and they
were talking about averagenumbers where it's in that three
and a half to four hour rangeon a full day shift.
So if you've got a vehicle witheight hours of runtime for a
(29:47):
charge, you can do back-to-backshifts and plug it in on an
eight-hour charge on a 220 voltand have it ready to go the next
morning.
So it's okay, it's fine and Ithink honestly it makes more
sense to electrify that kind ofthing on a job site where you're
(30:08):
using that three to four hoursof job site time, if that right,
versus something like anover-the-road semi or a big
electric garbage truck that hasto go into these rural areas
because you can deliver all thattorque, all that power, still
be quiet, still meet all thecompany or municipalities ESG
(30:29):
goals and it makes sense toelectrify there.
I think that arguably makesmore sense to electrify
construction equipment than itever has or ever will long haul
semi trucks.
Speaker 2 (30:41):
Well, right, and let's, let's look at it like
this.
So, on average I'm just talkingto average, because there are
companies out there that beatthis on both spectrums on
average, you're looking atanywhere between 500 and 800
hours a year on an excavator howmany are you talking about
engine hours?
you're talking about stick hoursengine hours, and this is what
I'm getting at.
(31:02):
The engine was on 500 to 800hours in a year's working year's
time.
How many working days are in ayear?
I figure 240, 250.
Okay, okay, so if it's 250 andyou only turn the hour meter
over 500 hours for the year,that's two hours a day.
Yeah, if it's 800, you'resomewhere in the neighborhood of
(31:26):
three to 3.4, something likethat, right, yep?
Now your actual productivitytime when you fire that thing up
and you run it is still back inthe two hour range on average.
Now you got days we're going toutilize it heavily and days
that it's just going to sitthere.
But what I'm saying is we'regoing to find out, just like we
(31:48):
found out with vehicles of thepast.
Anything that progresses, youstart to adapt your planning,
your scheduling and your workschedule around what is
available.
Yeah, so who cares if it onlyruns eight hours for the day on
electric, you're only going touse it four maybe five of the
(32:09):
day on electric.
You're only going to use it four, maybe five, yeah, and
realistically probably three.
Exactly.
Again, you're going to havesome.
You're going to have aball-busting job.
You got to bring a bunch ofguys out there.
You got 20 guys standing around.
You're gonna you're gonna havesome diesel equipment out there
that's making hay all day.
But then off in the corner arethose guys that are trying to
drill a hole with a small augerand pour in some sono tube
because they need to put a lightpole in.
(32:29):
Yeah, they're screwing aroundover there all day with like 20
processes and the one thing theyneed that mini for is to put an
auger hole in the ground well,and that's why I really like
this setup.
Speaker 1 (32:40):
I don't know if you saw sunbelt.
Sunbelt had a trailer mountedbattery pack and it was funny
because the autonomous haultruck was pulling up to it to
plug in right over there by theuh, you know by where they had
the dinners and everything else.
So looking at that piece ofequipment makes total sense
(33:01):
because you don't need, you know, a 40 kilowatt hour battery.
That's going to give you eightor 10 hours of continuous
runtime.
You just need two or threehours of continuous runtime If
you can store that energy in atrailer or quickly move that
energy from one machine toanother.
Like you know the way that thetrench compactor was set up to
(33:23):
use the weight of the batteriesas mass to push down and level
that trench, but then gave youthat 220 and those 110
connectors to transfer thatenergy where you need it.
And you start looking at thejob site not in terms of how
many hours of operation, butstart looking at it in terms of
(33:43):
how many watts of energy, notelectricity.
How much energy do we need toexpend to move those rocks, to
move that material, to move that?
Speaker 2 (33:54):
dirt.
Yeah, yeah, look at thecharging.
And then look at the.
Look at a capacitive dischargetype charging.
Right, that thing's pluggedinto the grid and it's soaking
up power while you're working.
That's it.
You pull up to it and then it'slike a lightning bolt went
through a rod and it's puttingthe power back into the machine
at an enormous, at a crazy rate.
And yeah, I'd like to see if wecan.
(34:16):
We got to find somebody fromSunbelt and talk to them about
this, because not just that, butthe fact that you can have
mobile charging come and go froma site and it's plugging into
the grid.
There are times where it's notgoing to work, but there are
times where you've got a powerdrop.
Anyways, you've got line peopleout there, you've got other
electrical things going on andyou say, look, I need a tap so I
(34:38):
can tap this trailer.
So while I'm in here buildingthis new Sheetz, we can keep
going here.
Speaker 3 (34:44):
That's it.
Speaker 2 (34:49):
Sheetz has enough power coming into it to charge
one of those trailers 24 sevenwhile you're working.
So when you do need it, thepower is stored in there and it
throws it right into the machine.
Speaker 1 (34:57):
Yeah, and that's all it needs to be.
It just needs to be somethingthat can take that power from
where you got it to the job sitewhere you need it, and get
enough energy in there to do thejob.
We talked a lot about, you know, the turn of the century, the
turn of the 20th century, whenwe were still talking about
horsepower in terms of how manyhorses you had on the job site
(35:20):
and then it was.
You know, this engine can do asmuch as four horses, this
engine can do as much as 10horses.
Well, now we're getting back tothat.
We're not talking about hours.
We're not talking about, youknow, the fuel itself being
expendable.
We're talking back in terms ofthe amount of energy, the amount
of work that needs to be done.
So I'm really excited about it.
(35:41):
I think it was a really coolevent.
Speaker 2 (35:43):
Um, and you know I'm really disappointed, we didn't
get to go see Fallingwaterthey're only closed on
Wednesdays they're only closedon Wednesdays the day that we
get off the Beaver exit to takea look at it and we go, wow,
we're this close, we're going torun over there.
You know what?
Shout out to the guy with thecigarette in his ear for letting
us know that when he pulled outof the gate and told us hey,
(36:07):
it's like when you what is thatsummer vacation or whatever it's
called, where they pull up towally world and they're closed?
Oh yeah, we were almost at thatpoint.
So you think we should haveheld him hostage with a bb gun?
I know, I think we should havesaid hey, we're going in, yeah
and then just walked in.
Speaker 1 (36:27):
Well, if we had been in the Mac granite, we could
have made that happen.
What's he going to do?
Stop us with that littleeclipse.
There's nothing he was going todo.
Speaker 2 (36:34):
What you need, though , is you need the Mac MD with
front wheel drive added to it.
Do they have that?
Well, there's a company outthere that adds them on, and let
me tell you, the Europeanmarket has the Unimog.
Yeah, we have the MacMDFour-wheel drive, and if you
need to get somewhere, it'sgoing to go up and over it.
Speaker 3 (37:02):
Medba, you are going to take the shortcut to the
interstate, aren't you?
You're here to win, ain't we?
If you're going to be a bear bea grizzly.
Speaker 1 (37:19):
Oh, that's a good one , yes, man.
So apparently you can get theMac MD as an 8x8.
Correct, we got to get one ofthose.
What are we going to do as an8x8.
Correct, we got to get one ofthose.
What are we going to do with an8x8?
Speaker 2 (37:31):
I don't know I'll put a van body in the back of it,
drive it around like a bigEconoline van.
Those are gone.
Those are gone.
That's true, mac-a-line.
Speaker 1 (37:42):
Mac-a-no-line.
Speaker 2 (37:43):
Yeah, Mac-a-no-line Line of vans.
Do you need to throw it in theback and take it somewhere?
It shouldn't be.
This is what you use.
Speaker 1 (37:51):
Can you imagine just some crazy, severe-duty 8x8
monster with a full van body inthe back?
Speaker 2 (37:59):
Let me tell you 2026, you're going to see the A-Team
come back yet again with a newMack-O-Liner.
Speaker 1 (38:07):
Oh, there you go.
Hey, remember that time we hada petition going to change the
national anthem to the 18 themesong.
Let's play that now.
Speaker 3 (38:16):
In 1972, a crack commando unit was sent to prison
by a military court for a crimethey didn't commit.
These men promptly escaped froma maximum security stockade to
the Los Angeles underground.
Today still wanted by thegovernment, they survive as
soldiers of fortune.
If you have a problem, if noone else can help and if you can
find them, maybe you can hirethe A-Team.
I think we're done.
Speaker 2 (39:02):
We've touched all four corners of hell on that one
.
Speaker 1 (39:05):
We kept touching things.
We got HR on the phone.
We got the A-team going, we'redone.
That's on that one.
We kept touching things.
We got HR on the phone, we gotthe A-team going, we're done.
That's a good one.
That's a good one.
I thought that was a good one.
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