October 29, 2024 • 31 mins
Ever wonder whether your minivan could gap the classic Bandit TA in the quarter? On today's exciting HEP-isode we run the numbers, talk through the awesome power of the 675 hp Trackzilla telehandler, ride around in the new electric 580 EV backhoe from CNH, and do whatever we can to avoid another round of Ferengi ear rubbing.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome back to another episode of the Heavy
Equipment Podcast.
I'm your host, joe Borris, here, as ever, with Mike not Mike
Schweitzer and I just got backfrom a really neat presentation
by Ford to the Municipal FleetManagement Association.
It was a really neat group ofguys and it was all these guys
that manage the fleets for, like, the villages and the parks
departments and all that Guysfrom Florida, from Michigan,
(00:21):
from all over.
So it was a really neat group,guys that manage the fleets for,
like, the villages and theparks departments and all that
guys from florida, from michigan, from, uh, you know, from all
over.
So it's really neat group.
And I gotta tell you, man, someof these ford products that are
coming out next year I can'tobviously talk about all of them
, but some of the stuff that Isaw was really neat.
They were talking about a newelectric interceptor and they're
talking about zero to 60 inthree seconds.
(00:43):
So I mean we're a long way fromthe old 5.0 Fox Body, florida.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
FHP.
Hey, if Roscoe had that, he'dhave caught them, duke boys, a
long time ago.
Speaker 1 (00:55):
Absolutely.
The Smokey and the Bandit wouldhave been a four-minute movie.
Speaker 2 (00:59):
Oh Jesus, they'd have been back done riding away in
the Cadillac.
What did that?
To charge the car, yeah, whatdid that charge?
Speaker 1 (01:05):
the car.
Yeah, what did that five ohFirebird have 150 horse.
I mean, I'm not exaggerating, Idon't think it had much more
than that.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
Yeah, cause what it's a.
It's a six, six liter, or is itsix, six Was it a Trans.
Am yeah Trans Am I bet you thatthing had like 380 horsepower
no, 180 horsepower no.
Speaker 1 (01:23):
We can look it up.
I'm looking at it right now theum that 1977 Trans Am TA.
Yeah, exactly, he'd 77 Trans Am180 horsepower.
What Yep?
6.6 liter, 180 horsepower, let'shit a whole, a hell of a lot of
torque, 320 pounds.
This is the thing and I reallywant I'm glad we're talking
(01:45):
about this even though we arealready off script the 1970s I
muted this.
This is me.
That's fine.
I own this the 1977 pontiactrans am that burt reynolds
drove and smoky the bandit.
6.6 liter, 403 cubic inchamerican muscle, 185 horsepower
at600 RPM, 320 pound feet oftorque at 2,200.
(02:08):
We have it so good right nowand we're not talking about
electric, right, we started thistalking about electric but
anything.
You go buy a Honda minivanright now and it's got 100 more
horsepower than anything thebandit ran.
So that is just absolutelybananas.
Speaker 2 (02:25):
Well, think about that.
You know you guys get allpissed because you're like, oh,
I'm driving a minivan.
You know we get kids and allthat stuff.
Every time your wife gets inthe minivan, she needs to ask
you this very simple questionDoes this thing move?
You can look at her and go, ohyeah, and then you take off.
Speaker 1 (02:45):
I got.
I got more depressing news foryou.
I looked up magnum pi's ferrari308 gti gts.
Oh yeah, 240 horsepower, yeah,but what did it weigh?
What did those?
What did those weigh?
You're just desperate to getthe get performance numbers out
of this thing.
I'll tell you what.
They doesn't matter what theyweighed.
It was a lot less thantrackzilla oh, geez, gee.
Speaker 2 (03:07):
Well, I mean, what is the curb weight of trackzilla?
Speaker 1 (03:11):
I couldn't even tell you, but I mean, it's got what
doesn't matter, it's got fourtracks it's got four tracks.
It's got a lift capacity of 50000 pounds.
This is something that poppedup on our radar last week we
didn't get to just talk about.
It's a 675 horsepower trackedtelehandler from Xtreme.
They call it Traxzilla.
They've been taking it out to awhole bunch of trade shows.
(03:31):
They had it at Con Expo lastyear World of Concrete, stuff
like that and this thing iscrazy and the reason we're
talking about it is you actuallygot a chance to give this thing
a spin, didn't you?
Speaker 2 (03:41):
Yeah, I drove one around around.
I used it in a lot we.
We moved it around.
I mean it is unlike anythingthat if you've been in a
telehandler it's unlike anytelehandler you ever weigh.
Weighs 150 000 pounds.
It'll lift 100 feet.
It'll reach out 55 feet.
You can pick up 50 000 poundswith it.
It holds 300 gallons of fuelbecause let me tell you you need
(04:05):
it.
The ground clearance on it'salmost two feet, but the turning
radius on it's 23 feet and whenyou turn this thing around
there's a whole song.
Give me 40 acres, you need it.
This thing is massive.
Speaker 3 (04:24):
He was heading into Boston in a big, long diesel
truck.
It was his first trip to Boston.
He was having lots of luck.
He was going the wrongdirection down a one-way street
in town and this is what he saidwhen the police chased him down
.
Speaker 4 (04:41):
Give me 40 acres and I'll turn this rig around.
Speaker 3 (04:45):
It's the easiest way that I've found.
Some guys can turn it on a dimeor turn it right downtown, but
I need 40 acres to turn this rigaround.
Speaker 2 (04:58):
But if you're building a building, you're
putting together some structuralsteel, you're going to place
some kind of decking, or ifyou've got a container claw and
you're going to place some kindof decking, or if you've got a
container claw and you're goingto put that on top of this thing
and you've got to movecontainers through a rough area,
rough terrain that's not paved.
This is it, this is what you'vegot to have.
Yeah, this will move it, it'snice, all right.
Speaker 1 (05:16):
So you're talking about this thing and you're
mentioning that it's got, youknow, 23 foot turn radius.
For something that big, thatsounds pretty tight.
Speaker 2 (05:24):
I mean, I think you could use that bad it's not bad,
but you're the boom hanging outin front of it too oh my god I
didn't think of everything else.
You have all.
I mean the boom, the boom'stelescopic, so it sucks itself
in, but but you have thathanging out there and then you
got to turn around, pluswhatever you have hanging off of
it.
So you need some distance.
But like I said, thought ofthat structural work and you and
(05:45):
you need to move something withthe independent four track
capability.
Speaker 1 (05:50):
It moves over weird terrain incredibly smooth yeah
it's like having, it's likehaving like a, an off-road,
fully articulated off-roadsuspension, like those guys down
that run at moab have, andthey're like spiders absolutely
yeah, we actually.
Speaker 2 (06:06):
They need to take that trackzilla design and put
that on our articulating haultruck.
Volvo, if you're listening, weneed this six independent tracks
on some apparatus that willdump material.
Speaker 1 (06:20):
Okay, you know, anyways the swedes are just
exactly people that would dothat.
I mean, I'll say this volvotakes a lot of heat out there by
the non-believers for beinglike a very conservative company
that talks about safety, thattalks about environmentalism and
being progressive and thingslike that, and a lot of people
think that they've, you know,because of that, they got no
(06:40):
stones.
These are the people who put astation wagon in a touring car
race.
These guys are nuts, I mean,and one absolutely did very well
.
Well, they won several races forsure yeah, I mean, that's the
thing.
Speaker 2 (06:53):
I mean they could look at that and be like, well,
we may need to move 40 tons upinto the mountains covered in
snow.
Yeah, let's build it that's it,that's what we like about them.
Speaker 1 (07:02):
That's what we like about them.
That's exactly what we likeabout them.
That's exactly what they'regoing to do.
They're going to say hmm, wecould use this as a ski resort.
Go get skiers that are trappedunderneath an avalanche.
Fantastic, Build seven of them.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
Build a Volvo snowmaking machine, haul the
snow into the ski resort, coverthe ski resort in snow and then
use it to retrieve everybody.
Speaker 1 (07:26):
I think we're good with that.
Blast the skiers.
Go rescue the people you buried.
I love it exactly exactlythey're either gonna.
They're either gonna hear thisand go.
We should sponsor that or weshould send them a cease and
desist.
Keep my name out of your mouthwe, um, let me tell you.
Speaker 2 (07:42):
Let me tell you this there are lawyers right now
going.
Don't listen to anything thatthey're saying.
I don't care how cool it is,don't do it don't do it this.
Speaker 1 (07:53):
I love biff henderson so much, man, biff henderson
which is not his real name,obviously, because he's
ukrainian.
Using his real name, he goes uh, I feel like that would be a
career harming decision.
Speaker 2 (08:05):
We talked about this, we did Career harming.
What's career harming?
Not doing it?
My friend Career?
Speaker 1 (08:12):
harming is not doing it.
Speaking of people that are notdoing it, komatsu has achieved
a major autonomous milestone bymoving their 10 billionth ton of
earth out of a mine using oneof their 75 fully autonomous
haul trucks.
And I got to tell you, man,we've gone a long way since this
(08:33):
show started, because Iremember one of the early
episodes we were talking aboutKomatsu putting its very first
230 ton electric haul truckautonomous and putting that out
there and making it like at oneof these Fortescue mines and
making it a big press release, abig deal about it.
And now they've moved 10billion tons and at some point
you got to say, okay, we'veproven this out.
Speaker 2 (08:55):
No, I think that's what they're doing, right.
I mean, they're literally like10 billion tons.
We've got to figure it out atthis stage.
This is the thing we talk aboutall the time.
It's always an evolution atthis stage.
This is the thing we talk aboutall the time.
It's always an evolution, it'salways a constant.
It's always going to beimproved.
You can't judge it on day one,right?
Look where we're at 10 billiontons of autonomous haulage.
Speaker 1 (09:16):
That's crazy.
You know, I was again talkingabout this with these fleet guys
at that meeting I was at thismorning and one of the guys said
something like you know, I justcan't trust these EVs, even the
hybrids, because they're stillso new.
And I dropped the bomb on him.
I said well, you know why areyou saying that Toyota put the
Prius into the market in 1997?
That was 26 years ago, 27 yearsago.
(09:39):
Yeah, no one, it wasn't goingto work then.
It wasn't going to work thenand it's been you know 20, some
of those old first gen Priusesand Honda Insights and stuff.
Some of those guys are stillout there, not many.
Some of them put new batteriesin, but those guys are still out
there.
And you know this Komatsu theycall it front runner autonomous
hauling system, front runner AHS.
The first time they ever putvehicle was a diesel.
(10:07):
Vehicle is a pc 7000 excavatorwas in 2008.
So they've been doing this for17 years now with prototypes and
with concepts and putting themin there.
So now that these, these 930eautonomous are out there moving
this stuff and moving justmassive amounts of materials,
it's a proven technology.
So if you're looking at this,you're a fleet operator, you're
a mine operator and you'retrying to find operators.
Guys are a fleet operator.
You're a mine operator andyou're trying to find operators.
Guys are aging out of it orretiring or moving on to other
(10:30):
roles faster than you canreplace them.
Komatsu's got a solution foryou.
Speaker 2 (10:34):
You know, komatsu does a very good job finding
solutions for everything.
One of the season one we talkedabout.
I mean they invented theunderwater dozer, completely
underwater, completely sealed.
They had it for a project thatwas specifically built.
They'll build whatever you need, volvo.
Here's the thing.
There are few companies outthere anymore that will build
(10:55):
what you need.
Yeah, I mean we talk about Macktrucks.
Mack trucks will build what youwant.
They have a whole up-fit centerright there.
Some of the other brands willdo it, but it's painful.
Mack, they have a whole up-fitcenter right there.
Some of the other brands willdo it, but it's painful.
Mac Mac does it.
You got Volvo, you got Komatsu.
They build stuff One-off,specific fleet-type ranges of
things.
Really, it's because they careabout the industry that they
(11:16):
service.
I'm not saying Caterpillar andJohn Deere do not, because I
mean obviously they have theirown stuff too.
I mean, hell, john Deere's,what's that?
Tell you?
you'll be a billion people Imean all kinds of people are
going to look at you and go.
Speaker 1 (11:31):
That thing will never work well, there's two
different things to talk about,so case is different.
So john deere has an electricdrive line of tractors that
they're rolling out right now.
That's really interesting and Ithink that that is something we
should talk about too, becausethey're rolling out a diesel
generator on board the machineand the diesel engine runs and
(11:54):
powers a capacitor right or acapacitor and a small battery
and that sends the power to thedrive motors and to the
articulating servos and thingslike that, because not
necessarily hydraulic, some ofthat's going to be electric
servo and that I think, isreally interesting because you
have the efficiency and thetorque of the electrification.
(12:14):
You can plug it into grid powerwhere that makes sense and then
when you're off grid power,it's got an onboard diesel
generator.
So it's almost like having aplug in hybrid.
I mean, back to the Prius, it'salmost like turning your John
Deere tractor into a Prius whereit's all this diesel stuff that
we understand.
But we're getting rid of all ofthese weird linkages.
We're getting rid of thetransmission, all that stuff
(12:35):
that adds maintenance and wearand tear, and we're just
sticking with this bulletproofdiesel motor that we know is
going to run and work.
We're going to put thiselectric drive motors in there
that are impervious tomaintenance costs no moving
parts, infinite wear on thesethings, or at least longer than
the diesel engine and they'regetting a lot of those benefits
(12:56):
in terms of efficiency, totalcost of ownership and things
like that that you get out of apure EV.
And then Case, now they have afully electric version of their
580 EV, which is the 580SN,which is their wheeled backhoe,
and I think both of those arereally interesting because Case
and John Deere are both industryleaders.
(13:17):
They both are real innovativecompanies.
They pride themselves on that.
But to see John Deere come upwith such a different solution
from everybody else, instead ofputting a massive, expensive
battery in this thing, they'reputting something that's smaller
, something a little morefamiliar.
I think that that's somethingthat's really going to give them
an edge.
And when someone comes up tothem and they're saying, ah, I
don't know about electric, Idon't know if this is something
(13:38):
I want to do, deere can look atthem and say, hey, no problem,
this still runs on diesel, itjust uses electric motors, right
, and I'm going to tell youright now if I was selling that,
if I was selling that deertechnology.
Speaker 2 (13:49):
And you're going to go on, you meet people and one
of the big things wheneveryou're trying to sell anything,
if you're a true salesman, notjust a hustler, an order taker
yeah, or an order taker You'rean educator at the same time yes
, and you got to look at thecustomer and go listen, this is
like a locomotive.
Yes, you have an engine.
You're running a generator.
(14:11):
Generator this is like alocomotive.
Yes, you have an engine, you'rerunning a generator.
The generator runs the motor.
This thing's got more instantpower than you could ever
harness mechanically.
And you've got to educate themon what that means.
Yeah, I don't have atransmission under the floor and
I don't have this and I don'thave the hydraulic pump.
That's integrated into that andall I've got now is this diesel
(14:32):
and this big electric motorthing underneath here, yeah, we
into that, and all I've got nowis this diesel and this big
electric motor thing underneathhere.
Yeah, we've had that technologysince the 50s actually 40s but
and that's where you say youdon't need all that crap.
Look how streamlined this is.
And then you're going to getwell, how do I run it in the
water?
What if I pressure wash?
Pressure wash trains to cleanthem?
They're doing the same thing.
Don't worry about it, use ityeah.
Speaker 1 (14:49):
And you can't point to anything more, literally.
You can't point to anythingmore proven and more reliable
than a train that with alocomotive on it, that's got
millions of miles under its beltand say, look, if there was a
different way to do this,norfolk Southern would have
figured it out, but they'restill running this way because
it's the most efficient way.
Union Pacific, yes.
Speaker 2 (15:10):
Canadian Rail are some of the biggest players on
moving freight on rail.
They have tried everythingTurbine.
They went from steam, they wentto turbine.
They've tried turbine.
They've tried fuel oil, theyhave tried heavy oil, they have
tried bio oil.
They have tried everything.
And where are we at?
We burn diesel fuel, we power agenerator.
(15:31):
We use an efficient engine totransmit that power into the
generator.
The generator is instant poweras it's turning, it's creating
it, it's ready to be used.
Their problem is is how do theyapply it?
And that's always been theproblem with locomotive.
So with the backhoe scenarioand any other electric drive
(15:54):
stuff that's going to be comingout, it's only a matter of time.
This is, and again, laterno,terex, the BE.
These people have used dieselor some kind of power for
electric or straight electricoff the grid drive for decades,
decades, yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:06):
Well, and it's interesting too, right, because
now you're getting into this era.
You know we talk about that cat15 liter motor a lot because it
is kind of fuel agnostic.
Now Volvo Penta has got theirown fuel agnostic motor.
You can plug this thing ineffectively as a gen set into a
John Deere tractor, into any ofthese heavy equipment options
that are going to be runningelectric drive with an onboard
(16:29):
power unit like this, and itdon't care what you put in no,
and hydrogen, you could put,natural gas, you could put
whatever it is that the electedofficials in your region are
pushing for their political gainthat weekend, if it happens to
be, you know, t-boon pickingsmoney and they're trying to get
that natural gas money.
They can do that.
They're trying to get thatmethane money out of.
(16:50):
You know montana or all thestates that are doing the dairy
farm like that, they can do that.
They're trying to get thatmethane money out of Montana or
all the states that are doingthe dairy farm like that.
They can do that too, and theycan run it on this engine
effectively and efficiently.
Okay.
Speaker 2 (17:00):
You bring up a good point Depending on the political
climate always dictates whatthe next fad is going to be.
Yes, no one can say that thatis wrong.
Secondly, it also dictates whatthe fad is going to be yes, no
one can say that that is wrong.
Secondly, it also dictates whatthe fat is going to be and what
financial gain is there throughrebates, all kinds of tax
(17:20):
incentives, just pure priceincentives, because the
corporations are gettingincentives.
So when we have them on andpeople go back and look season
one they were on the show theytalk about the engines, they
talk about what they're doing.
Their mission statement.
Their mission statement's thiswe will build something that
(17:40):
will work with whatever that'sit.
You need power.
We have it.
Put this in something, powerwith it, and we're here to help
you with that.
And that's what they do.
It's not just about beingelectric or not.
This is about being very openand very diverse, to being able
to generate power, to turnsomething which, either through
mechanical means, hydraulicmeans or electric means, propels
(18:02):
, whatever the hell it is youwant, going forward.
Speaker 1 (18:04):
That's it.
Daimler did a really good jobof this and I was kind of
against it when I first heard it.
But their comment was we'redoing all of the above right,
we're doing hydrogen, we'redoing more efficient diesel,
we're doing natural gas andwe're doing electric, and we're
doing all of that with a singlepowertrain.
And at the time I didn't get it.
(18:25):
I didn't understand what theywere talking about.
Obviously, the cat motor wasstill in development.
I'm sure Navistar is coming upwith something similar.
This seems to be the way thatit's going to be, oh, I'm sure
Is to have a single bottom endright, that by changing out the
head or changing out thesoftware and the injectors, you
can run it on multiple differentfuels.
(18:46):
And I think that that issomething, from an investment
point of view, that's reallyreally smart for companies like
Caterpillar, like Navistar,things like that, to invest into
, because if you're trying tobuild a new bottom end for every
type of combustion possible,it's going to get real pricey
and you're going to priceyourself out of the market.
You need to have something thatcompanies can still afford to
(19:07):
buy, because at the end of theday, it doesn't matter how cool
your technology is or how badassit is If your customers can't
afford to buy, because, at theend of the day, it doesn't
matter how cool your technologyis or how badass it is if your
customers can't afford to buy it.
Speaker 2 (19:18):
They're not gonna, no matter how much they want to
buy it.
You completely.
Yeah, I was just gonna say thatyou can have all this stuff,
but part of it being universalis to make it somewhat
affordable.
You know what happens.
Otherwise, you're dealing withthe ferengis and you're trying
to get dilithium crystals.
Let me tell you something youdon't want to be dealing with
those guys unless you want to doa whole afternoon of ear
rubbing to get something out ofthem.
Speaker 4 (19:39):
Nurse Garland, I'm having trouble with my ear again
.
Could you massage it some more?
Are you sure you don't want adoctor to look at that?
No, I feel more comfortablewith you Much better.
Speaker 2 (19:59):
You know.
This is what we need globally.
This is not a US Canadian, themaple syrup burners up there
trying to figure out another wayaround it.
This is a global solution andone of the things and, yes, we
are going to get, you know,chastised for this, like we do
most things Globally we needglobal solutions and all the big
(20:21):
players Caterpillar, Volvo,Komatsu, John Deere, Power all
of them understand and they havefor decades.
Again, this is not a newsubject.
They understand globalsustainability, their biggest
managing problem, and if youever talk to anybody high enough
up in a product segment or in adirector role of an entire
(20:44):
group, they always talk aboutthe same woes Global market
issues.
Because you have the sameproblem.
The USs only likes certainthings.
China, which is a massive buyerof equipment, only likes
certain things, and they're inthere trying to manage and
massage who likes what and howcan we use the same jello mold
(21:05):
on every dinner table?
That's what they're trying toget to people like jelloell-O.
They like it.
How do we use the same moldeverywhere?
So every Thanksgiving table'sgot the same stuff on it?
Speaker 4 (21:16):
That's what we're trying to do.
Jell-o pudding pops, frozenpudding on a stick.
You want one?
Well, I know that little kidslove pudding pops because they
taste fantabulous, and motherslove it because they know it's
made with the goodness of realjello pudding.
But I don't know about a kittycat, okay why not?
Speaker 2 (21:37):
we got the franke's and we got the, we got cosby all
on the same show dell.
How?
Speaker 1 (21:41):
wild, is it?
So?
This is, this is a seriousquestion.
When I was a kid, right, and Ifigured I was like in junior
high high school, marriedchildren had come on, you know
that everybody was in an uproarright, like this is horrible,
this is anti-family.
You know, all the Republicanswere losing their mind, and it
was back then.
It wasn't even the Republicans,it was Tipper Gore losing her
(22:02):
mind.
Box knew what they were doing.
Box knew what they were doing.
Of course they did, but nowthink about that, that, like
back then we're Al Bundy waslike everything that was wrong
with America.
Roseanne Barr, whatever waseverything that was wrong with
America.
American families, right, andthe examples that were held up
(22:24):
were like whatever that show wastouched by an angel or that BS.
And then you know the party offive people and then the, the
Cosby show, and those guysturned out to be monsters, I
mean like actual monsters thatcould be in prison and taken out
of society, you know.
And then this other guy turnedout to be like the super
wholesome guy.
Speaker 2 (22:45):
You know what people hate?
People hate the thing, thething, yes, I hate the thing.
Yes, no, but seriously, thething that people hate is they
hate anything that is areflection upon current day
lives.
Yeah, roseanne, in its day andwhen people go back and they
will watch that show.
That show is criticallyacclaimed today because it
(23:08):
talked about real issues withreal looking people.
People that they were like ah,final notice, service removal.
And she laughs and tears thatenvelope up and throws it off
and goes amateurs, that's a realthing.
That is trying to juggle theirbills and what's going to get
turned off, and there wereepisodes where they the power,
(23:28):
got turned off.
Oh, we need to turn it back on.
They had a little bit of moneystashed in a coffee can above
the refrigerator, but that'sreal life.
Well, people don't want thecosby show, wasn't real life.
People liked watching watchingthe cosby show because it got
them away from what wherereality really was.
And people hated the simpsonswhen the simpsons came on,
because the simpsons talkedabout a lot of social issues and
(23:51):
that's why they brought it upand they hated.
That show was boycotted.
Mother's groups wanted to takendown immediately, I mean you
think if we talk about anothershow that was completely
farfetched and it wasn't like Alfor anything that was supposed
to be farfetched, mr Belvedere.
I mean as much as we like MrBelvedere and we like the idea
(24:11):
of the Singlish Butler living inthe house, how far do you have
to be out of reality to toreally watch that show and go?
This is a model show no oh yeah, no, it wasn't.
It was funny, it was tasteful,but it was so far all the realm
of reality.
The kids sat down and watchedthat and you know what,
depending on where you grew up,mr belvedere was just one of
(24:33):
those things you were likethat's unobtainable tv.
Yeah, and people got tired ofwatching unobtainable tv okay
first of all, and when peoplegot tired of watching
unobtainable, that's when youhad roseanne, the simpsons and
all these things come out andeven though simpsons were a
cartoon, go back and watch thoseearly episodes.
(24:53):
Yeah yeah, directly hitting theFU button on social issues,
government issues and all kindsof problems in this country.
Speaker 1 (25:02):
Yeah, and they were doing it at a time when that
really wasn't allowed.
They were doing it at a timewhere it was like impolite I
mean it really was.
That was what people weresaying was that it was impolite
to talk about political issuesand social issues and talk about
money.
That was something that justyou didn't do.
Speaker 2 (25:18):
You didn't talk about money no, we were all supposed
to grin and bear it and take itand, and you know what, people
got tired of it, and that's alot of what we talk about on
this show in in various forms.
People get tired of this crap.
Yeah, they get tired of stuffbeing thrown at them, shoved on
them and all that.
Now, you could have an argumentabout that with electric, but
what really slaps people in theface?
(25:39):
And this is where all of thisis coming to.
In my rant, we're going to lookback at this and we're going to
go wow we were so screwed uplooking at this coming at us
like a freight train, becauseit's not about electric.
We talked about this to death.
It's not about electric, it isabout change.
(26:01):
Yes, change is the devil,change is what's evil, but
change is what inevitably alwayshappens.
And if we don't change, we willbe forced to change.
And let me tell you, the forcewill change, will be worse and
it always is than us trying tofigure a way out.
So when we're talking aboutdiesel and diesel electric
(26:25):
versus straight electric, youcould pick your battles, but
ultimately you're going to endup with the same thing.
We're going to change.
Things are going to evolve.
They have to.
It doesn't matter whether thegovernment tells you or not.
It's going to happen.
Speaker 1 (26:36):
Yeah, well, it's already happened, and the
reality is that the US market isno longer big enough to chart
its own course.
China has overtaken us, europeas a whole, as the European
Union, has gotten every bit asbig as us.
There are developing nations inSoutheast Asia, in India, in
(26:57):
Australia, in Africa, and all ofthem make up a truly global
market, and that global markethas decided that it's going
electric and we're.
The adoption rate in China isover 50% electric versus diesel
(27:21):
or internal combustion or evenhydrogen.
So it's one of those thingswhere it's going to happen and
it's going to happen to us, andwe can either ride the wave or
we can.
You know what is it?
The Lee Iacocca said we canlead, follow or get out of the
way, and getting out of the wayis real, real painful.
Speaker 2 (27:40):
Yes, and getting getting out of the way is the
easy way out.
I mean that that's, that's thechicken's way out leading.
Speaker 1 (27:49):
I've gotten out of the way enough times and then
realized, oh, son of a, I wassupposed to be on that train and
now you've got to run to getback on it.
Speaker 2 (27:57):
So that's that's my point Leading anything.
Okay, what are you leadingtechnology?
You're leading a pack and aproduct segment, or or you're
even, or you're just trying tolead in a support aspect, where
you're trying to lead to haveparts availability and in the
correct parts availability andsustainable filter solutions,
(28:18):
and all these things thatthey're trying to do is hard to
lead.
It's hard to stay out frontwith everybody nipping at your
heels, hitting you with thebaton from behind, trying to
knock you down, like that is thething.
But getting out of the way,yeah, sure, let everybody else
go forward and then we'll follow.
We'll be there batting clean upand selling all of a decade
(28:39):
ago's technology.
There are companies out therethat do that, but anybody with a
fleet that is hedging on newtechnology growth and trying to
be out there in the forefrontand stay ahead of safety and put
themselves first and put theirpeople first this is where
you're at.
You have to be out thereleading the pack along with the
(29:02):
OEMs, because it's a partnership.
It's supposed to be and it hasto be.
If it's going to work, you haveto have the dealership groups,
the OEMs and the customers allworking together the minute any
one of those three in thattripod.
Quit, the thing falls over theminute.
Speaker 1 (29:17):
Any one of those three in that tripod.
Quit, the thing falls over.
That's it.
Well, we should play the Zeldatheme for the Triforce of Power
now.
Speaker 2 (29:23):
No, there you go, there you go.
Speaker 4 (29:26):
You really liked the.
Speaker 2 (29:26):
Ferengi thing, didn't you that?
Speaker 1 (29:28):
came out of thin air.
I thought of that in a moment.
You got to deal with theFerengi.
You got to get a lot of earrubbing to get anything out of
that.
I was dying, I was dying.
Well, I think we've peaked fortoday, so let's close with a
special message from JasonSanborn.
Speaker 4 (29:45):
95 years before my son, jimmy, was born, jason
Sanborn was roasting coffeeslowly, carefully, proudly.
Only the choice beans, the mostperfect blend.
Today it's even more rewarding.
Blended with nectar-richColombian beans, chase and
Sanborn is coffee to be servedwith pride.
With its richer coffee flavor,this is your best cup.
(30:07):
Yet Remember what Mr Chasedidn't know about coffee Mr
Sanborn did.
Welcome back to another episode of the Heavy
Equipment Podcast.
I'm your host, joe Borris, here, as ever, with Mike not Mike
Schweitzer and I just got backfrom a really neat presentation
by Ford to the Municipal FleetManagement Association.
It was a really neat group ofguys and it was all these guys
that manage the fleets for, like, the villages and the parks
departments and all that Guysfrom Florida, from Michigan,
(00:21):
from all over.
So it was a really neat group,guys that manage the fleets for,
like, the villages and theparks departments and all that
guys from florida, from michigan, from, uh, you know, from all
over.
So it's really neat group.
And I gotta tell you, man, someof these ford products that are
coming out next year I can'tobviously talk about all of them
, but some of the stuff that Isaw was really neat.
They were talking about a newelectric interceptor and they're
talking about zero to 60 inthree seconds.
(00:43):
So I mean we're a long way fromthe old 5.0 Fox Body, florida.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
FHP.
Hey, if Roscoe had that, he'dhave caught them, duke boys, a
long time ago.
Speaker 1 (00:55):
Absolutely.
The Smokey and the Bandit wouldhave been a four-minute movie.
Speaker 2 (00:59):
Oh Jesus, they'd have been back done riding away in
the Cadillac.
What did that?
To charge the car, yeah, whatdid that charge?
Speaker 1 (01:05):
the car.
Yeah, what did that five ohFirebird have 150 horse.
I mean, I'm not exaggerating, Idon't think it had much more
than that.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
Yeah, cause what it's a.
It's a six, six liter, or is itsix, six Was it a Trans.
Am yeah Trans Am I bet you thatthing had like 380 horsepower
no, 180 horsepower no.
Speaker 1 (01:23):
We can look it up.
I'm looking at it right now theum that 1977 Trans Am TA.
Yeah, exactly, he'd 77 Trans Am180 horsepower.
What Yep?
6.6 liter, 180 horsepower, let'shit a whole, a hell of a lot of
torque, 320 pounds.
This is the thing and I reallywant I'm glad we're talking
(01:45):
about this even though we arealready off script the 1970s I
muted this.
This is me.
That's fine.
I own this the 1977 pontiactrans am that burt reynolds
drove and smoky the bandit.
6.6 liter, 403 cubic inchamerican muscle, 185 horsepower
at600 RPM, 320 pound feet oftorque at 2,200.
(02:08):
We have it so good right nowand we're not talking about
electric, right, we started thistalking about electric but
anything.
You go buy a Honda minivanright now and it's got 100 more
horsepower than anything thebandit ran.
So that is just absolutelybananas.
Speaker 2 (02:25):
Well, think about that.
You know you guys get allpissed because you're like, oh,
I'm driving a minivan.
You know we get kids and allthat stuff.
Every time your wife gets inthe minivan, she needs to ask
you this very simple questionDoes this thing move?
You can look at her and go, ohyeah, and then you take off.
Speaker 1 (02:45):
I got.
I got more depressing news foryou.
I looked up magnum pi's ferrari308 gti gts.
Oh yeah, 240 horsepower, yeah,but what did it weigh?
What did those?
What did those weigh?
You're just desperate to getthe get performance numbers out
of this thing.
I'll tell you what.
They doesn't matter what theyweighed.
It was a lot less thantrackzilla oh, geez, gee.
Speaker 2 (03:07):
Well, I mean, what is the curb weight of trackzilla?
Speaker 1 (03:11):
I couldn't even tell you, but I mean, it's got what
doesn't matter, it's got fourtracks it's got four tracks.
It's got a lift capacity of 50000 pounds.
This is something that poppedup on our radar last week we
didn't get to just talk about.
It's a 675 horsepower trackedtelehandler from Xtreme.
They call it Traxzilla.
They've been taking it out to awhole bunch of trade shows.
(03:31):
They had it at Con Expo lastyear World of Concrete, stuff
like that and this thing iscrazy and the reason we're
talking about it is you actuallygot a chance to give this thing
a spin, didn't you?
Speaker 2 (03:41):
Yeah, I drove one around around.
I used it in a lot we.
We moved it around.
I mean it is unlike anythingthat if you've been in a
telehandler it's unlike anytelehandler you ever weigh.
Weighs 150 000 pounds.
It'll lift 100 feet.
It'll reach out 55 feet.
You can pick up 50 000 poundswith it.
It holds 300 gallons of fuelbecause let me tell you you need
(04:05):
it.
The ground clearance on it'salmost two feet, but the turning
radius on it's 23 feet and whenyou turn this thing around
there's a whole song.
Give me 40 acres, you need it.
This thing is massive.
Speaker 3 (04:24):
He was heading into Boston in a big, long diesel
truck.
It was his first trip to Boston.
He was having lots of luck.
He was going the wrongdirection down a one-way street
in town and this is what he saidwhen the police chased him down
.
Speaker 4 (04:41):
Give me 40 acres and I'll turn this rig around.
Speaker 3 (04:45):
It's the easiest way that I've found.
Some guys can turn it on a dimeor turn it right downtown, but
I need 40 acres to turn this rigaround.
Speaker 2 (04:58):
But if you're building a building, you're
putting together some structuralsteel, you're going to place
some kind of decking, or ifyou've got a container claw and
you're going to place some kindof decking, or if you've got a
container claw and you're goingto put that on top of this thing
and you've got to movecontainers through a rough area,
rough terrain that's not paved.
This is it, this is what you'vegot to have.
Yeah, this will move it, it'snice, all right.
Speaker 1 (05:16):
So you're talking about this thing and you're
mentioning that it's got, youknow, 23 foot turn radius.
For something that big, thatsounds pretty tight.
Speaker 2 (05:24):
I mean, I think you could use that bad it's not bad,
but you're the boom hanging outin front of it too oh my god I
didn't think of everything else.
You have all.
I mean the boom, the boom'stelescopic, so it sucks itself
in, but but you have thathanging out there and then you
got to turn around, pluswhatever you have hanging off of
it.
So you need some distance.
But like I said, thought ofthat structural work and you and
(05:45):
you need to move something withthe independent four track
capability.
Speaker 1 (05:50):
It moves over weird terrain incredibly smooth yeah
it's like having, it's likehaving like a, an off-road,
fully articulated off-roadsuspension, like those guys down
that run at moab have, andthey're like spiders absolutely
yeah, we actually.
Speaker 2 (06:06):
They need to take that trackzilla design and put
that on our articulating haultruck.
Volvo, if you're listening, weneed this six independent tracks
on some apparatus that willdump material.
Speaker 1 (06:20):
Okay, you know, anyways the swedes are just
exactly people that would dothat.
I mean, I'll say this volvotakes a lot of heat out there by
the non-believers for beinglike a very conservative company
that talks about safety, thattalks about environmentalism and
being progressive and thingslike that, and a lot of people
think that they've, you know,because of that, they got no
(06:40):
stones.
These are the people who put astation wagon in a touring car
race.
These guys are nuts, I mean,and one absolutely did very well
.
Well, they won several races forsure yeah, I mean, that's the
thing.
Speaker 2 (06:53):
I mean they could look at that and be like, well,
we may need to move 40 tons upinto the mountains covered in
snow.
Yeah, let's build it that's it,that's what we like about them.
Speaker 1 (07:02):
That's what we like about them.
That's exactly what we likeabout them.
That's exactly what they'regoing to do.
They're going to say hmm, wecould use this as a ski resort.
Go get skiers that are trappedunderneath an avalanche.
Fantastic, Build seven of them.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
Build a Volvo snowmaking machine, haul the
snow into the ski resort, coverthe ski resort in snow and then
use it to retrieve everybody.
Speaker 1 (07:26):
I think we're good with that.
Blast the skiers.
Go rescue the people you buried.
I love it exactly exactlythey're either gonna.
They're either gonna hear thisand go.
We should sponsor that or weshould send them a cease and
desist.
Keep my name out of your mouthwe, um, let me tell you.
Speaker 2 (07:42):
Let me tell you this there are lawyers right now
going.
Don't listen to anything thatthey're saying.
I don't care how cool it is,don't do it don't do it this.
Speaker 1 (07:53):
I love biff henderson so much, man, biff henderson
which is not his real name,obviously, because he's
ukrainian.
Using his real name, he goes uh, I feel like that would be a
career harming decision.
Speaker 2 (08:05):
We talked about this, we did Career harming.
What's career harming?
Not doing it?
My friend Career?
Speaker 1 (08:12):
harming is not doing it.
Speaking of people that are notdoing it, komatsu has achieved
a major autonomous milestone bymoving their 10 billionth ton of
earth out of a mine using oneof their 75 fully autonomous
haul trucks.
And I got to tell you, man,we've gone a long way since this
(08:33):
show started, because Iremember one of the early
episodes we were talking aboutKomatsu putting its very first
230 ton electric haul truckautonomous and putting that out
there and making it like at oneof these Fortescue mines and
making it a big press release, abig deal about it.
And now they've moved 10billion tons and at some point
you got to say, okay, we'veproven this out.
Speaker 2 (08:55):
No, I think that's what they're doing, right.
I mean, they're literally like10 billion tons.
We've got to figure it out atthis stage.
This is the thing we talk aboutall the time.
It's always an evolution atthis stage.
This is the thing we talk aboutall the time.
It's always an evolution, it'salways a constant.
It's always going to beimproved.
You can't judge it on day one,right?
Look where we're at 10 billiontons of autonomous haulage.
Speaker 1 (09:16):
That's crazy.
You know, I was again talkingabout this with these fleet guys
at that meeting I was at thismorning and one of the guys said
something like you know, I justcan't trust these EVs, even the
hybrids, because they're stillso new.
And I dropped the bomb on him.
I said well, you know why areyou saying that Toyota put the
Prius into the market in 1997?
That was 26 years ago, 27 yearsago.
(09:39):
Yeah, no one, it wasn't goingto work then.
It wasn't going to work thenand it's been you know 20, some
of those old first gen Priusesand Honda Insights and stuff.
Some of those guys are stillout there, not many.
Some of them put new batteriesin, but those guys are still out
there.
And you know this Komatsu theycall it front runner autonomous
hauling system, front runner AHS.
The first time they ever putvehicle was a diesel.
(10:07):
Vehicle is a pc 7000 excavatorwas in 2008.
So they've been doing this for17 years now with prototypes and
with concepts and putting themin there.
So now that these, these 930eautonomous are out there moving
this stuff and moving justmassive amounts of materials,
it's a proven technology.
So if you're looking at this,you're a fleet operator, you're
a mine operator and you'retrying to find operators.
Guys are a fleet operator.
You're a mine operator andyou're trying to find operators.
Guys are aging out of it orretiring or moving on to other
(10:30):
roles faster than you canreplace them.
Komatsu's got a solution foryou.
Speaker 2 (10:34):
You know, komatsu does a very good job finding
solutions for everything.
One of the season one we talkedabout.
I mean they invented theunderwater dozer, completely
underwater, completely sealed.
They had it for a project thatwas specifically built.
They'll build whatever you need, volvo.
Here's the thing.
There are few companies outthere anymore that will build
(10:55):
what you need.
Yeah, I mean we talk about Macktrucks.
Mack trucks will build what youwant.
They have a whole up-fit centerright there.
Some of the other brands willdo it, but it's painful.
Mack, they have a whole up-fitcenter right there.
Some of the other brands willdo it, but it's painful.
Mac Mac does it.
You got Volvo, you got Komatsu.
They build stuff One-off,specific fleet-type ranges of
things.
Really, it's because they careabout the industry that they
(11:16):
service.
I'm not saying Caterpillar andJohn Deere do not, because I
mean obviously they have theirown stuff too.
I mean, hell, john Deere's,what's that?
Tell you?
you'll be a billion people Imean all kinds of people are
going to look at you and go.
Speaker 1 (11:31):
That thing will never work well, there's two
different things to talk about,so case is different.
So john deere has an electricdrive line of tractors that
they're rolling out right now.
That's really interesting and Ithink that that is something we
should talk about too, becausethey're rolling out a diesel
generator on board the machineand the diesel engine runs and
(11:54):
powers a capacitor right or acapacitor and a small battery
and that sends the power to thedrive motors and to the
articulating servos and thingslike that, because not
necessarily hydraulic, some ofthat's going to be electric
servo and that I think, isreally interesting because you
have the efficiency and thetorque of the electrification.
(12:14):
You can plug it into grid powerwhere that makes sense and then
when you're off grid power,it's got an onboard diesel
generator.
So it's almost like having aplug in hybrid.
I mean, back to the Prius, it'salmost like turning your John
Deere tractor into a Prius whereit's all this diesel stuff that
we understand.
But we're getting rid of all ofthese weird linkages.
We're getting rid of thetransmission, all that stuff
(12:35):
that adds maintenance and wearand tear, and we're just
sticking with this bulletproofdiesel motor that we know is
going to run and work.
We're going to put thiselectric drive motors in there
that are impervious tomaintenance costs no moving
parts, infinite wear on thesethings, or at least longer than
the diesel engine and they'regetting a lot of those benefits
(12:56):
in terms of efficiency, totalcost of ownership and things
like that that you get out of apure EV.
And then Case, now they have afully electric version of their
580 EV, which is the 580SN,which is their wheeled backhoe,
and I think both of those arereally interesting because Case
and John Deere are both industryleaders.
(13:17):
They both are real innovativecompanies.
They pride themselves on that.
But to see John Deere come upwith such a different solution
from everybody else, instead ofputting a massive, expensive
battery in this thing, they'reputting something that's smaller
, something a little morefamiliar.
I think that that's somethingthat's really going to give them
an edge.
And when someone comes up tothem and they're saying, ah, I
don't know about electric, Idon't know if this is something
(13:38):
I want to do, deere can look atthem and say, hey, no problem,
this still runs on diesel, itjust uses electric motors, right
, and I'm going to tell youright now if I was selling that,
if I was selling that deertechnology.
Speaker 2 (13:49):
And you're going to go on, you meet people and one
of the big things wheneveryou're trying to sell anything,
if you're a true salesman, notjust a hustler, an order taker
yeah, or an order taker You'rean educator at the same time yes
, and you got to look at thecustomer and go listen, this is
like a locomotive.
Yes, you have an engine.
You're running a generator.
(14:11):
Generator this is like alocomotive.
Yes, you have an engine, you'rerunning a generator.
The generator runs the motor.
This thing's got more instantpower than you could ever
harness mechanically.
And you've got to educate themon what that means.
Yeah, I don't have atransmission under the floor and
I don't have this and I don'thave the hydraulic pump.
That's integrated into that andall I've got now is this diesel
(14:32):
and this big electric motorthing underneath here, yeah, we
into that, and all I've got nowis this diesel and this big
electric motor thing underneathhere.
Yeah, we've had that technologysince the 50s actually 40s but
and that's where you say youdon't need all that crap.
Look how streamlined this is.
And then you're going to getwell, how do I run it in the
water?
What if I pressure wash?
Pressure wash trains to cleanthem?
They're doing the same thing.
Don't worry about it, use ityeah.
Speaker 1 (14:49):
And you can't point to anything more, literally.
You can't point to anythingmore proven and more reliable
than a train that with alocomotive on it, that's got
millions of miles under its beltand say, look, if there was a
different way to do this,norfolk Southern would have
figured it out, but they'restill running this way because
it's the most efficient way.
Union Pacific, yes.
Speaker 2 (15:10):
Canadian Rail are some of the biggest players on
moving freight on rail.
They have tried everythingTurbine.
They went from steam, they wentto turbine.
They've tried turbine.
They've tried fuel oil, theyhave tried heavy oil, they have
tried bio oil.
They have tried everything.
And where are we at?
We burn diesel fuel, we power agenerator.
(15:31):
We use an efficient engine totransmit that power into the
generator.
The generator is instant poweras it's turning, it's creating
it, it's ready to be used.
Their problem is is how do theyapply it?
And that's always been theproblem with locomotive.
So with the backhoe scenarioand any other electric drive
(15:54):
stuff that's going to be comingout, it's only a matter of time.
This is, and again, laterno,terex, the BE.
These people have used dieselor some kind of power for
electric or straight electricoff the grid drive for decades,
decades, yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:06):
Well, and it's interesting too, right, because
now you're getting into this era.
You know we talk about that cat15 liter motor a lot because it
is kind of fuel agnostic.
Now Volvo Penta has got theirown fuel agnostic motor.
You can plug this thing ineffectively as a gen set into a
John Deere tractor, into any ofthese heavy equipment options
that are going to be runningelectric drive with an onboard
(16:29):
power unit like this, and itdon't care what you put in no,
and hydrogen, you could put,natural gas, you could put
whatever it is that the electedofficials in your region are
pushing for their political gainthat weekend, if it happens to
be, you know, t-boon pickingsmoney and they're trying to get
that natural gas money.
They can do that.
They're trying to get thatmethane money out of.
(16:50):
You know montana or all thestates that are doing the dairy
farm like that, they can do that.
They're trying to get thatmethane money out of Montana or
all the states that are doingthe dairy farm like that.
They can do that too, and theycan run it on this engine
effectively and efficiently.
Okay.
Speaker 2 (17:00):
You bring up a good point Depending on the political
climate always dictates whatthe next fad is going to be.
Yes, no one can say that thatis wrong.
Secondly, it also dictates whatthe fad is going to be yes, no
one can say that that is wrong.
Secondly, it also dictates whatthe fat is going to be and what
financial gain is there throughrebates, all kinds of tax
(17:20):
incentives, just pure priceincentives, because the
corporations are gettingincentives.
So when we have them on andpeople go back and look season
one they were on the show theytalk about the engines, they
talk about what they're doing.
Their mission statement.
Their mission statement's thiswe will build something that
(17:40):
will work with whatever that'sit.
You need power.
We have it.
Put this in something, powerwith it, and we're here to help
you with that.
And that's what they do.
It's not just about beingelectric or not.
This is about being very openand very diverse, to being able
to generate power, to turnsomething which, either through
mechanical means, hydraulicmeans or electric means, propels
(18:02):
, whatever the hell it is youwant, going forward.
Speaker 1 (18:04):
That's it.
Daimler did a really good jobof this and I was kind of
against it when I first heard it.
But their comment was we'redoing all of the above right,
we're doing hydrogen, we'redoing more efficient diesel,
we're doing natural gas andwe're doing electric, and we're
doing all of that with a singlepowertrain.
And at the time I didn't get it.
(18:25):
I didn't understand what theywere talking about.
Obviously, the cat motor wasstill in development.
I'm sure Navistar is coming upwith something similar.
This seems to be the way thatit's going to be, oh, I'm sure
Is to have a single bottom endright, that by changing out the
head or changing out thesoftware and the injectors, you
can run it on multiple differentfuels.
(18:46):
And I think that that issomething, from an investment
point of view, that's reallyreally smart for companies like
Caterpillar, like Navistar,things like that, to invest into
, because if you're trying tobuild a new bottom end for every
type of combustion possible,it's going to get real pricey
and you're going to priceyourself out of the market.
You need to have something thatcompanies can still afford to
(19:07):
buy, because at the end of theday, it doesn't matter how cool
your technology is or how badassit is If your customers can't
afford to buy, because, at theend of the day, it doesn't
matter how cool your technologyis or how badass it is if your
customers can't afford to buy it.
Speaker 2 (19:18):
They're not gonna, no matter how much they want to
buy it.
You completely.
Yeah, I was just gonna say thatyou can have all this stuff,
but part of it being universalis to make it somewhat
affordable.
You know what happens.
Otherwise, you're dealing withthe ferengis and you're trying
to get dilithium crystals.
Let me tell you something youdon't want to be dealing with
those guys unless you want to doa whole afternoon of ear
rubbing to get something out ofthem.
Speaker 4 (19:39):
Nurse Garland, I'm having trouble with my ear again
.
Could you massage it some more?
Are you sure you don't want adoctor to look at that?
No, I feel more comfortablewith you Much better.
Speaker 2 (19:59):
You know.
This is what we need globally.
This is not a US Canadian, themaple syrup burners up there
trying to figure out another wayaround it.
This is a global solution andone of the things and, yes, we
are going to get, you know,chastised for this, like we do
most things Globally we needglobal solutions and all the big
(20:21):
players Caterpillar, Volvo,Komatsu, John Deere, Power all
of them understand and they havefor decades.
Again, this is not a newsubject.
They understand globalsustainability, their biggest
managing problem, and if youever talk to anybody high enough
up in a product segment or in adirector role of an entire
(20:44):
group, they always talk aboutthe same woes Global market
issues.
Because you have the sameproblem.
The USs only likes certainthings.
China, which is a massive buyerof equipment, only likes
certain things, and they're inthere trying to manage and
massage who likes what and howcan we use the same jello mold
(21:05):
on every dinner table?
That's what they're trying toget to people like jelloell-O.
They like it.
How do we use the same moldeverywhere?
So every Thanksgiving table'sgot the same stuff on it?
Speaker 4 (21:16):
That's what we're trying to do.
Jell-o pudding pops, frozenpudding on a stick.
You want one?
Well, I know that little kidslove pudding pops because they
taste fantabulous, and motherslove it because they know it's
made with the goodness of realjello pudding.
But I don't know about a kittycat, okay why not?
Speaker 2 (21:37):
we got the franke's and we got the, we got cosby all
on the same show dell.
How?
Speaker 1 (21:41):
wild, is it?
So?
This is, this is a seriousquestion.
When I was a kid, right, and Ifigured I was like in junior
high high school, marriedchildren had come on, you know
that everybody was in an uproarright, like this is horrible,
this is anti-family.
You know, all the Republicanswere losing their mind, and it
was back then.
It wasn't even the Republicans,it was Tipper Gore losing her
(22:02):
mind.
Box knew what they were doing.
Box knew what they were doing.
Of course they did, but nowthink about that, that, like
back then we're Al Bundy waslike everything that was wrong
with America.
Roseanne Barr, whatever waseverything that was wrong with
America.
American families, right, andthe examples that were held up
(22:24):
were like whatever that show wastouched by an angel or that BS.
And then you know the party offive people and then the, the
Cosby show, and those guysturned out to be monsters, I
mean like actual monsters thatcould be in prison and taken out
of society, you know.
And then this other guy turnedout to be like the super
wholesome guy.
Speaker 2 (22:45):
You know what people hate?
People hate the thing, thething, yes, I hate the thing.
Yes, no, but seriously, thething that people hate is they
hate anything that is areflection upon current day
lives.
Yeah, roseanne, in its day andwhen people go back and they
will watch that show.
That show is criticallyacclaimed today because it
(23:08):
talked about real issues withreal looking people.
People that they were like ah,final notice, service removal.
And she laughs and tears thatenvelope up and throws it off
and goes amateurs, that's a realthing.
That is trying to juggle theirbills and what's going to get
turned off, and there wereepisodes where they the power,
(23:28):
got turned off.
Oh, we need to turn it back on.
They had a little bit of moneystashed in a coffee can above
the refrigerator, but that'sreal life.
Well, people don't want thecosby show, wasn't real life.
People liked watching watchingthe cosby show because it got
them away from what wherereality really was.
And people hated the simpsonswhen the simpsons came on,
because the simpsons talkedabout a lot of social issues and
(23:51):
that's why they brought it upand they hated.
That show was boycotted.
Mother's groups wanted to takendown immediately, I mean you
think if we talk about anothershow that was completely
farfetched and it wasn't like Alfor anything that was supposed
to be farfetched, mr Belvedere.
I mean as much as we like MrBelvedere and we like the idea
(24:11):
of the Singlish Butler living inthe house, how far do you have
to be out of reality to toreally watch that show and go?
This is a model show no oh yeah, no, it wasn't.
It was funny, it was tasteful,but it was so far all the realm
of reality.
The kids sat down and watchedthat and you know what,
depending on where you grew up,mr belvedere was just one of
(24:33):
those things you were likethat's unobtainable tv.
Yeah, and people got tired ofwatching unobtainable tv okay
first of all, and when peoplegot tired of watching
unobtainable, that's when youhad roseanne, the simpsons and
all these things come out andeven though simpsons were a
cartoon, go back and watch thoseearly episodes.
(24:53):
Yeah yeah, directly hitting theFU button on social issues,
government issues and all kindsof problems in this country.
Speaker 1 (25:02):
Yeah, and they were doing it at a time when that
really wasn't allowed.
They were doing it at a timewhere it was like impolite I
mean it really was.
That was what people weresaying was that it was impolite
to talk about political issuesand social issues and talk about
money.
That was something that justyou didn't do.
Speaker 2 (25:18):
You didn't talk about money no, we were all supposed
to grin and bear it and take itand, and you know what, people
got tired of it, and that's alot of what we talk about on
this show in in various forms.
People get tired of this crap.
Yeah, they get tired of stuffbeing thrown at them, shoved on
them and all that.
Now, you could have an argumentabout that with electric, but
what really slaps people in theface?
(25:39):
And this is where all of thisis coming to.
In my rant, we're going to lookback at this and we're going to
go wow we were so screwed uplooking at this coming at us
like a freight train, becauseit's not about electric.
We talked about this to death.
It's not about electric, it isabout change.
(26:01):
Yes, change is the devil,change is what's evil, but
change is what inevitably alwayshappens.
And if we don't change, we willbe forced to change.
And let me tell you, the forcewill change, will be worse and
it always is than us trying tofigure a way out.
So when we're talking aboutdiesel and diesel electric
(26:25):
versus straight electric, youcould pick your battles, but
ultimately you're going to endup with the same thing.
We're going to change.
Things are going to evolve.
They have to.
It doesn't matter whether thegovernment tells you or not.
It's going to happen.
Speaker 1 (26:36):
Yeah, well, it's already happened, and the
reality is that the US market isno longer big enough to chart
its own course.
China has overtaken us, europeas a whole, as the European
Union, has gotten every bit asbig as us.
There are developing nations inSoutheast Asia, in India, in
(26:57):
Australia, in Africa, and all ofthem make up a truly global
market, and that global markethas decided that it's going
electric and we're.
The adoption rate in China isover 50% electric versus diesel
(27:21):
or internal combustion or evenhydrogen.
So it's one of those thingswhere it's going to happen and
it's going to happen to us, andwe can either ride the wave or
we can.
You know what is it?
The Lee Iacocca said we canlead, follow or get out of the
way, and getting out of the wayis real, real painful.
Speaker 2 (27:40):
Yes, and getting getting out of the way is the
easy way out.
I mean that that's, that's thechicken's way out leading.
Speaker 1 (27:49):
I've gotten out of the way enough times and then
realized, oh, son of a, I wassupposed to be on that train and
now you've got to run to getback on it.
Speaker 2 (27:57):
So that's that's my point Leading anything.
Okay, what are you leadingtechnology?
You're leading a pack and aproduct segment, or or you're
even, or you're just trying tolead in a support aspect, where
you're trying to lead to haveparts availability and in the
correct parts availability andsustainable filter solutions,
(28:18):
and all these things thatthey're trying to do is hard to
lead.
It's hard to stay out frontwith everybody nipping at your
heels, hitting you with thebaton from behind, trying to
knock you down, like that is thething.
But getting out of the way,yeah, sure, let everybody else
go forward and then we'll follow.
We'll be there batting clean upand selling all of a decade
(28:39):
ago's technology.
There are companies out therethat do that, but anybody with a
fleet that is hedging on newtechnology growth and trying to
be out there in the forefrontand stay ahead of safety and put
themselves first and put theirpeople first this is where
you're at.
You have to be out thereleading the pack along with the
(29:02):
OEMs, because it's a partnership.
It's supposed to be and it hasto be.
If it's going to work, you haveto have the dealership groups,
the OEMs and the customers allworking together the minute any
one of those three in thattripod.
Quit, the thing falls over theminute.
Speaker 1 (29:17):
Any one of those three in that tripod.
Quit, the thing falls over.
That's it.
Well, we should play the Zeldatheme for the Triforce of Power
now.
Speaker 2 (29:23):
No, there you go, there you go.
Speaker 4 (29:26):
You really liked the.
Speaker 2 (29:26):
Ferengi thing, didn't you that?
Speaker 1 (29:28):
came out of thin air.
I thought of that in a moment.
You got to deal with theFerengi.
You got to get a lot of earrubbing to get anything out of
that.
I was dying, I was dying.
Well, I think we've peaked fortoday, so let's close with a
special message from JasonSanborn.
Speaker 4 (29:45):
95 years before my son, jimmy, was born, jason
Sanborn was roasting coffeeslowly, carefully, proudly.
Only the choice beans, the mostperfect blend.
Today it's even more rewarding.
Blended with nectar-richColombian beans, chase and
Sanborn is coffee to be servedwith pride.
With its richer coffee flavor,this is your best cup.
(30:07):
Yet Remember what Mr Chasedidn't know about coffee Mr
Sanborn did.
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