Stop Cold Outreach. Salesforce Insider Reveals What Works.

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Cold calls, cold emails, cold everything — they’re dead.
 In this episode, Josh Matthews sits down with Drew Sechrist, one of the earliest Salesforce builders and now the founder of Connect The Dots, to break down how authentic relationships drive sales, recruiting, and growth in 2025.

They unpack:

• The story behind Salesforce’s first culture of connection — and how it changed everything
• How to find warm paths into any account or candidate using relationship intelligence
• Why transparency and alignment (Mark Benioff’s V2MOM model) still win decades later
• The role of AI in building trust, not replacing it
• And how small dinners and meaningful introductions beat mass outreach every time

If you lead sales, recruiting, or you’re a founder trying to stand out in a noisy world — this one’s for you.

Episode Transcript

Drew Sechrist (00:00):
This all goes back to one simple principle.
It's a very noisy world rightnow.
It is very hard to break intosome the consciousness of
somebody.
There's too much stuff goingon, and AI is just making it
worse.
And the thing that cuts throughall of the noise fast is
somebody you know reaches out toyou.
You know that person well, andthen all of a sudden you pay

(00:21):
attention to it because that'ssomebody you know well.
And you read it and you replyto it, and you pick up the phone
and whatever you do, becauseyou know you know that person.
That's it.

Josh Matthews (00:29):
100%, man.
This is the hiring edge.
In an era where AI is rewritingthe rules, learn how to hire
with precision.
Lead with purpose and build aculture that we need.
He cold emailed Mark Benioffback in 1999, and that one
message changed his life.
Today, I'm talking with DrewSeacrist, Salesforce's 36th
employee, early sales leader,and now CEO of Connect the Dots,

(00:52):
an AI platform that maps realhuman relationships, not just
LinkedIn connections.
We talk about culture,connection, and how your network
is still your greatest unfairadvantage.
This is the hiring edge.
Let's get into it.
Drew Seacrist, welcome to theshow.
It's so wonderful to have youhere.
Let's go ahead and just jumpright in.
I'm really curious, uh, whatwas going through your mind when

(01:15):
you cold emailed Mark Benioffback in 1999?
Like, how did how did you buildup the confidence to do that?
Or where did that even comefrom?

Drew Sechrist (01:26):
Uh well, number one, he wasn't that scary at
that point.
Now he's kind of a scary guybecause he's really he's really
uh you know uh built a massivecompany and he's you know, I
don't know, uh worth $10 billionand uh hob knobs with uh you
know global leaders.
So he's a much scarier, harderguy to get in front of now.
Back then, he was uh seniorvice president at Oracle who was

(01:49):
leaving to go start his owncompany.
Um and and I was actuallypinging him because I'd read in
the Wall Street Journal thatMark's a really good PR guy.
He gets great PR.
So back then it was nodifferent.
You know, he's better at itnow, but he was really good at
it back then.
He um he got a mention in aWall Street Journal article when

(02:09):
he was leaving Oracle to startSalesforce, and he explained
what um you know uh whatSalesforce was going to do,
which is basically rewriteSalesforce automation software
from the ground up to run on theinternet, which was a novel
idea back then.
Now it's not novel at all, it'swhat everybody would do.
Um like free SAS, really.

(02:32):
Like he was the you know firstone to really do this.
And um so my company I wasworking for on the East Coast in
North Carolina resold andimplemented Salesforce
automation tools at that point.
And so I was reaching out withan offer to Mark, which was when
you bring this to market, we'dlove to resell and implement it.

(02:56):
And um, so that's what wasrunning through my mind was hey,
let's this looks like a reallycool new product idea.
I get it.
Uh I was I was scratching myhead a little bit, like what
happens?
There's not going to be any CDROM to install.
Right.
There's not going to be anysoftware to you know to deal
with.
So I don't like how do Iactually how do I actually do

(03:17):
this?
And uh and I realized likethere's a lot the world has
shown what you need to do.
When you implement Salesforcenow, there's a lot of services
involved to get that thing setup and running.
Um, even though that eventhough there's no CD ROM to
install.

Josh Matthews (03:32):
Yeah, you could say that.
I think last check was about3,500 SI partners, right?
I mean, it's it's a lot ofpeople.
It's a lot, yeah.
A lot of people, a lot ofprocess.
Yeah.
And so so you joined, you wereemployee number 36 at
Salesforce.
So you were working there whenI was using the product, I
think.
I think we talked, and it waslike right around that same

(03:54):
time, and it was a totallydifferent beast with the same
intention.
And since then, you have goneon, you were there till 2010.
Is that about right?
About 15 years ago you left.
And and you've had some othercompanies, but your current
company, Connect the Dots, it'sa SaaS product.
Why don't you talk a little bitabout what it does briefly, but

(04:16):
then like what like what wasthe driving force to get you to
even recognize, hey, look,there's a real need here.
So what is Connect the Dots?

Drew Sechrist (04:25):
Sure.
So Connect the Dots is it'sactually a term that we used
internally at Salesforce duringthat first decade to mean um,
would say, did you connect thedots into that account?
Did you figure out ourrelationships that can get us in
front of the, you know, theright executive to make a you
know, to make our pitch?
Sure.
And and so we actually, youknow, codified that into our

(04:46):
sales process.
Every sales manager in uhSalesforce probably still to
this day says, Did you connectthe dots in or how did you
connect the dots into thisaccount?
And um, so it was verysuccessful for us, uh, just that
motion, figuring out who in ourcollective relationships we
could leverage to get a meeting.
And sometimes it worked so wellthat it felt like cheating.

(05:06):
You know, we would get ameeting with the CEO of the
company just because Mark knewthat person, or one of our other
executives knew that person, orone of our board members, or a
customer who really liked usknew that person.
And so we just got really goodat sniffing around to find out
where we could leverage thoserelationships.
That was the real that wasprobably the beginning of this
whole idea.
Um, and then over the years andwhat turned into decades, I

(05:30):
just kept thinking, what is it'dbe great if there was some
easier way to do this, to findmore of these relationships.
And LinkedIn obviously exists,right?
And LinkedIn is how we try todo this today.
The challenge with LinkedIn isthat um it's kind of a sea, it's
an ocean of relationships thatare um that are kind of uh

(05:53):
they're all just binary.
You know, if you and I areconnected and Mark Benny and you
are connected, and you know,somebody else and somebody else
are connected, they all look thesame.
You can't differentiate andsee, you know, those two people
really know each other, theyhave a strong relationship, or
those two people really don'tknow each other, they have a
weak relationship, or they don'tknow each other at all.
They're just connected onLinkedIn, binary, yes or no.
And so that makes it reallyhard when you start to just

(06:15):
leverage your own network tofigure out how I can find the
right relationships that I canleverage to get into an account.
Um, but then it makes it itmakes it basically impossible
when you're trying to do that atscale for a large company.
Sure.
Because it that it's mostlynoise.
You know, well, you're theproblem is it's mostly noise and
you're trying to find thesignal.
And we figured out that there'sa way to do that by analyzing a

(06:38):
different set of data thathadn't been analyzed before,
which was historicalcommunication data, historical
email specifically, where we cananalyze to see that you know
Josh and Drew have emailed alittle bit, and so they have a
they have a weak relationship,but Josh, uh but uh you know,
Drew and Mark have emailed alot, and so they have a strong
relationship.
And you can analyze the entirerelationship graph for any human

(07:00):
and do that at scale for anycompany, and it gives you this
heat map of how you get to thepeople you want to get to.
So um that's what we that wasour innovation, that's where it
came from.
And um it works like a charm,it's great.
And anybody who's leveragedthis successfully now uh you
know feels like why I wouldnever want to go back to doing
it the you know caveman waypreviously trying to break into

(07:22):
account.
I just want to I want those youknow heat map direct laser
guided introductions every timeI can get them.

Josh Matthews (07:29):
You know, it reminds me a lot.
Well, it doesn't remind me alot, it's got my kind of brain
juices flowing here, thinkingabout learning more deeply about
six degrees of separation fromone of Gladwell's books, right?
And how you have theconnectors, right?
How everyone could be whateverit was, like you sent you send a

(07:50):
a thousand letters from allover the country, and they're
all trying to get to this oneone or one person in Boston.
And this discovery that look,there are these people who are
natural connectors.
I I'm a connector, but I'm nota natural connector, like as an
example, right?
I've got a lot of connections,but it doesn't mean I'm like,
oh, you know, everyone all thetime, um knowing exactly where

(08:13):
to go.
But you know, your software,and you're you're utilizing AI
for this, correct?
Yeah.
So your your software isbasically trying to get that six
degrees down down to onedegree, down to two degrees,
just by getting to that personthat everyone knows in Boston

(08:33):
first, is kind of what it soundslike.

Drew Sechrist (08:36):
Yeah, definitely, I think uh over time we are we
haven't done a study on this.
There have been some otherstudies done uh on how many
degrees is it really to get toany person on the planet.
And it looks like it's smallerthan it was believed to be
before.
Sure.
Certainly within industries,because you you don't like if
you're a uh, I don't know, let'ssay that you're a software SaaS

(08:58):
vendor that sells you know somesort of uh finance package, you
don't you're not trying to getto you know uh a Bushman in you
know the Outback in Sub-SaharanAfrica.
It doesn't matter, you don'tneed to get this that six degree
of separation, right?
You're you're trying to get tothe office of the CFO in maybe

(09:18):
5,000 companies that are yourtargets.
And so that world becomes muchsmaller than six degrees.
You know, in instead of acouple of degrees, you basically
can get to everybody.
And uh Connect the Dots candefinitely help you do that.
That's uh you know, when youhave a tightly defined ICP and
the personas that you want toget to, then you're sitting
pretty.
Then you just need to figureout how to build your network,

(09:40):
and you probably already have agreat network that can get you
to most of those people.

Josh Matthews (09:45):
I'm I'm well, it makes sense to me.
I'm really curious though, likemost founders at some point
have a bit of an aha moment.
So here you are.
You you spent um 11 years, Ithink, right around 11 years, 12
years at Salesforce, connectingthe dots.
Sorry?

Drew Sechrist (10:03):
About about 10, a little over 10.

Josh Matthews (10:05):
A little over 10 years, right?
And then you went and started adifferent company, but then you
had a moment.
There must have been a moment.
You woke up or whatever,someone said something.
It spurred your um, it spurredyour creative thinking process
and came up with this idea um tobuild CTD.
Like, what was that moment?

(10:25):
Like what happened?
Do you recall?

Drew Sechrist (10:28):
Well, I mean, there are a lot of things that
happened over over time.
You know, early on, as Iapparently somebody told me this
from our time at Salesforce.
They they were like, Do youremember when you taught us
taught us all how to connect thedots?
And I don't I didn't evenremember that.
I but I taught the entire salesteam, you know, I gave them
examples of here's how youleverage the network to get into

(10:49):
directly to executives.
And and so I, you know, when wewould do our you know quarterly
off-site trainings and thingslike that, we would some of us
would be at things that we didparticularly well, we would be
asked to go explain that toeverybody.
So that the idea has been therefor a long time for me.
I also you know was a big fanof Malcolm Gladwell's The
Tipping Point.
And sure.
I self-identified as aconnector and and also really

(11:11):
like to find connectors becausethey're super amazing.
Like when you find a superconnector, they can really make
your life a lot better.
Yeah, they do.
And uh so you know the ideaprobably originated there, but
then there were all kinds ofother things that happened along
the way.
Like LinkedIn was almostacquired by Salesforce.
I don't know if you rememberthat.
I don't.
Uh so when when Microsoftacquired them, Salesforce was in

(11:32):
the running.
Okay.
And and I remember thinking,wow, is Salesforce really I'd
been out of the company a littlewhile at that point.
I was like, is Salesforcereally big enough that it could
pull that off?
And it could have.
Um, but Microsoft they came tobetter terms with Microsoft, and
Microsoft uh acquired them.
And I remember seeing that andthinking, wow, it'd be really
amazing if you had like a anautomatically updating CRM

(11:57):
system.
Because LinkedIn's kind of anautomatically updating set of
contacts and companies, right?
So, you know, that was a pieceof where I realized like uh you
could you could start building agraph of relationships by
analyzing historicalcommunication data, and that

(12:19):
could turn into and at thatpoint, honestly, this is going a
little bit on flight on atangent, but I was like, we
could build a CRM system thatwould be an automatic CRM
system.
And uh so this is a supertangent, and this is not many
people know this.
The original name of thecompany was automatic CRM.
Okay.
And then about a year later, wechanged we were like, well, we
don't really want to build anautomatic CRM system that would

(12:41):
populate the contacts andcompanies automatically and keep
them up to date based on whoyou're communicating with.
We didn't really want to bitethat off.
We didn't want to build allthat functionality.
We decided we wanted to focuson just one narrow thing, which
is who knows who.
We could analyze the same setof data, and what we could do
with that is just tell you hereare all the people that you know
in your network, and here areall the people you can get to in

(13:02):
your network based on thestrength, the strongest
relationships.
So that was a you know piece.
You're if you're asking, like,how did this idea come to be?
There's not any one thing thathappened.
There are all these like littlepieces that it's like uh as
Steve Jobs, as Steve Jobs says,you can't, or said, you can't
connect the dots lookingforward, you can only connect
them looking backwards.

(13:22):
Uh I don't know if you rememberthat quote.
Um, but that's kind of truehere.
It's like the all these littlethings led to uh realizing that,
huh, we could build thistechnology that could analyze
all of this fossil data aboutrelationships.
Like if you and I send an email15 years ago, that what we

(13:43):
don't really do much with that,just sitting there on a server
somewhere, just kind of you knownot doing anything.
We can put that data to work.
You know, we can analyze thatand then conclude that Josh and
Drew had a relationship goingback 15 years.
And um, but it requires, youknow, requires a bunch of uh
data science and some technologythat didn't really exist if you

(14:04):
went back, you know, 10 years.
So there's some things thathappened that and started to
enable this to be a possiblething to build.
And all those things led to apoint where I I was like, I had
conviction that this could bebuilt, but I didn't quite know
how it would be built.
I just it was clear to me therewere enough of the parts of the
technological puzzle that weresolvable that we could do it.
And so we set out and did itright on, man.

Josh Matthews (14:28):
Yeah, and it works.
I'm really curious about youknow, what might have been one
of the largest technicalhurdles, you know, to getting
this to actually function.
Everybody knows, not everybodyknows.
I wish everybody knew that the10x principle isn't that you
know you're gonna scale 10 timeswith limited effort.

(14:51):
It's whatever you're trying todo is gonna take 10 times more
effort than you probably thinkit's going to take.
I would imagine you must havefaced some of those challenges
in the process, particularly inthe early stages.
But with that in mind, what wasthe biggest technical hurdle
that you and the team had toovercome to get this to actually

(15:14):
function?

Drew Sechrist (15:15):
Yeah, the data, getting the data right is the
biggest hurdle.
So what we what we do is wetake in all this semi-structured
or unstructured data aboutpeople.
And you know, there I don'tknow how many Josh Matthews
there are on the planet, but I'mguessing you're not the only
one.
There's enough.
Um yeah.
There's enough, right?
And we have to be really goodat figuring out which Josh
Matthew is which Josh Matthew,yeah, Matthews.

(15:37):
Uh and so that was really hard.
Um, and it was extremely hard.
And uh the when we firststarted, you know, we our first
version of the product wasprobably about 30% right, which
meant 70% wrong.
And it was so bad.
We'd get all the Josh Matthewsscrewed up and not we'd take the
data in and we would have thesekind of Frankenstein contact

(16:01):
profiles.
We call them human profiles,because we we really want to
know the right human.
Sure.
As opposed to like in aSalesforce, you know, in your
CRM system, there might be fivecontact records for Josh
Matthews, and they're allcorrect.
It was like Josh Matthews atone company, and but it's you,
and it's Josh Matthews at someother company, and it was you.

Josh Matthews (16:21):
And it's kind of I've got boy meet an actor from
Boy Meets World, a WWF wrestler,some skater guy up in Portland,
Oregon, some doctor, professor,and then there's me.
And it's like, well, wherewhere do you show up?
This is just on Google.
Much less trying to actuallyaccurately pinpoint someone that
you really humanly need theconnection with, right?

Drew Sechrist (16:43):
Yes.
So we we we figure that out.
So it took us, it took us yearsto do this.
I mean, it was like it's youknow, that you know, a thousand
little cuts to figure out, okay,what's why are we still not
getting Josh Matthews right?
What are the issues?
And just tweaking, tweaking,tweaking.
We have this brilliant datascientist who runs that effort
for us uh from the verybeginning, and she's just you

(17:04):
know maniacally focused ongetting this right.
So she's she's if you've everseen Jiro Dreams of Sushi, yeah,
you know, it's a great, greatlittle documentary.

Josh Matthews (17:14):
Yeah.
Yes.

Drew Sechrist (17:15):
You know, for those of any of your listeners
who haven't seen it, it'ssomebody who obsesses over just
making the sushi perfect.
Every day he's gonna make it alittle bit better.
Um, and that that's how our youknow, our head of data science
has has you know functioned.
Just every day of obsessingabout the details to make sure
that we really get Josh Matthewsright.
That was the biggesttechnological challenge.

(17:35):
There are a lot of other thingstoo.
There's just a there's a lotthat we had to build, but that
was the one thing that we werelike we we think this is
possible, and we're just gonnatake the leap of faith off this
cliff and hope that we land onthe other side.
And we did, but that took aboutthree years until we landed it
on the other side.

Josh Matthews (17:53):
That's uh so that's holding your breath for a
very long time.
Yes, it's a good analogy.
Yeah.
I'm kind of curious.
So you 10 plus years atSalesforce, especially in the
early days, and you and I talkeda little while ago, you know, I
like back in the day, it was sodifferent, man.
I mean, it was so differentin '99 than it was in 2009.

(18:15):
And you would have been thereto take it from, you know,
wherever it was to what, aroundits first billion dollars of
revenue, somewhere around there.
Okay.
And so you came out of that.
If there's like this singlemost powerful lesson, and it
doesn't have to be like, hey,thanks, Mark, for teaching me
this.
It can just be like myexperience, your experience

(18:37):
there with the team and the techand the PR and everything.
I'm really curious, like,what's the number one thing that
you took out of that that wasthat gave you, say, a little bit
of an enhanced superpower toactually go out and build
Connect the Dots?

Drew Sechrist (18:53):
Yeah.
Well, first the knowledge ofConnect the Dots, that it
worked, you know, that motionthat I would say that's that's
number one.
Um, because I and Mark led theway on this, you know, he this
I'll I'll go upstream from thata little bit.
Culture is really important ata company, extremely important.
I mean, maybe the mostimportant thing there is.
You set the right culture,you're gonna attract the right

(19:15):
people and motivate the rightpeople, and the right people are
gonna do the right things andyou're gonna get the right
outcomes.
And you know, Mark did a lot ofthings right.
He um he was extremelymission-driven, evangelical
about what we were doing.
Like we were, it was kind ofcrazy in retrospect.
It's almost like we're part ofa cult, but we all knew it and

(19:35):
we loved it, and you know, weand uh we really wanted to
transform the world and get theworld off of enterprise software
and onto SaaS.
We just thought it was betterfor the the entire world, all
the people who are using it, forthe economy, uh, you know, for
the the average you know, dailylife of the people who are the

(19:55):
users of the tools.
We really believed it.
And and we were right.
You know, the cool thing islike we were believing it and
we're making it happen.
So I think getting the cultureright is extremely important.
And Mark has this great tool toalign everyone behind and get
the culture right.
And I you're probably familiarwith the V2 MOM.

(20:16):
Yeah, so for uh for yourlisteners who've not heard of
this, it's an acronym.
It's V V M O M, and it standsfor vision, values, methods,
obstacles, and metrics.
And it's a great way ofaligning the company behind what
are we here to accomplish, howare we going to do it, what are
the things that couldpotentially stop us, and how do
we mitigate those things to makesure that they don't stop us?

(20:38):
And then what are the thingsthat we're really focused on,
the metrics that let us knowthat we've accomplished what we
set out to do.
And that conversation, I'vegone through so many of these
conversations now where withyour my executive team and with
larger teams, where you uh youknow, you you sit down and you
look honestly at your whatyou're here to do and what your

(21:00):
assets are and how you're gonnaget there.
And then you have it surf itgets everything on the table,
you have a great conversationabout it, and by the time you're
done, if you do a good job,you're all clearly aligned, and
then you can go running in theright direction together.
And uh so I would say that'sone of the superpower tools that
Mark taught us to use.
And Salesforce used it at thevery beginning, you know, right

(21:23):
when I got there, they alreadyhad a V2 mom in place, and uh
and I'm sure they're still usingit today.
Uh I know they still use ittoday because I I'm still
friends with the people who putit together every year.
That's awesome.
And so it's uh it's it's stillhow they guide their, I don't
even know how many billions theyare in revenue now, but um,
it's how they guide guide theirthink it's 70.

Josh Matthews (21:43):
I'm not sure.
I think it's around 70, but Icould be completely off base.
I have no idea.
Insert insert number righthere.
There we go.
Yeah.
Well, I can help us with this.
And you know, when you bring upwhen you bring up the v2 mom, I
mean, one of the criticalpieces of that tool is
transparency.
And I'm aware that transparencyis absolutely essential to you.

(22:07):
You know, that's something thatyou've spoken about in the past
on other shows or just ingeneral communications.
So I'm kind of curious, this isjust sort of a fun question.
We all know that transparencycan feel uncomfortable at times,
right?
It comes with a certain amountof risk because we are either

(22:29):
making ourselves vulnerable orwe're making someone else
vulnerable with thetransparency.
In other words, as you know,Jordan Peterson would put it,
uh, yeah, we risk offendingsomeone in order to have a real
dialogue, a real openconversation.
What was a time when you therewas a necessity for you to be

(22:53):
transparent and it was very highrisk, but the payoff was well
worth it.

Drew Sechrist (23:01):
Um well, I think you know, throughout the course
of our um our company's history,we've uh you know, we're we're
startup and you know you gothrough your ups and downs with
your funding cycles.
And there are times when um youknow uh you you need to we've
had to right size the size ofthe company, and that's very

(23:23):
painful.
Uh and I think the you know thething that I want everybody to
understand is exactly where weare.
You know, what are the thingsthat we need to accomplish in
order to, you know, to be ableto uh run in a fiscally
responsible way, and what arethe things that we're gonna have
to do if we don't hit thosemetrics?
And uh you know, sometimessometimes you we've had to do

(23:47):
layoffs and you know Salesforcehad to do layoffs too when I was
there.
And I think that's um it'stough, but it's also the best
thing when you are upfront witheverybody about what your status
is so that they you know theyunderstand what do we need to do
to succeed and what are theramifications going to be if we

(24:09):
don't.
Uh so I think that's that's onething that I you know I've
leaned into.
And um and it's you know, thoseare high stakes and and uh
because you're also you don'twant to lose people, you know,
like if you're it you don't youdon't want to scare your team,
uh but you also want to behonest with them about where
you're at.
And uh so I think that's youknow, that's a that's a really

(24:32):
that's a really important one.
Um yeah, that's probably thebest thing I would say.

Josh Matthews (24:39):
I think it's very fair.
Directness is so appreciatedand and yet so undervalued, and
it just really depends on whoyou're delivering the message to
and how you're delivering themessage, right?
I mean, everybody's got thatperson that you can see the
forest and they can't.
And you try and give them ahand, even if they ask for it

(25:00):
and they they can't hear it,right?
And other people who are like,hey, just do this, just do this
one little thing.
And what you told them to do isnot a little thing, it's a big
thing, it's a hard thing.
They go off and do it andachieve some wild success.
If we can kind of gear ourconversation a little bit more
towards hiring and um connectingwith people, connecting with

(25:22):
managers and leaders andcompanies to become employed.
But again, our focus of theshow is on hiring.

Drew Sechrist (25:30):
Yeah.

Josh Matthews (25:31):
You were sharing the other day how you know the
difference between sales, whichis really what Connect the Dots
was built for, is only a shortputt away from being a
recruiter, being a headhunter,running a talent acquisition
team at a large organization.
And I'd like to understand ifif it's all right with you, I'd
like to understand how ConnectedDots can help service someone

(25:55):
who's in my role, for instance,who's either trying to acquire
more clients so they can servemore people, or trying to
identify, you know, those reallyhard, very difficult to find
badass people who are absolutegame changers for companies.
Yeah.

Drew Sechrist (26:14):
For sure.
So there are two differentthings here.
One one is you want to dobusiness development for your
own, uh, you know, selling yourservices, your recruiting
services to companies.

Josh Matthews (26:24):
Sure.
Or and look, a lot of SIleaders listen to this show,
right?
They might just want to be ableto market beyond their AEN AVP
connections, you know what Imean?
So there's that.
But then look, these hiringmanagers, they don't hire well,
they're screwed.
Everyone knows that.
If Mark hadn't hired you and 35other great people at the

(26:48):
start, it probably wouldn't,like, I wouldn't be calling
myself the Salesforce recruiter.
You know what I mean?
So that hiring is so critical.
So, how how can someone,anyone, identify better
candidates or have recruitersidentify better candidates using
your product?

Drew Sechrist (27:06):
Yeah.
I mean, one of the one of thethings that people use us for
every day, and a lot of VCs arethis is one of their primary use
cases.
VCs will recruit for theirportfolio companies.
And um, they want to get to theright candidates.
So the the right candidates arehard to get, right?
If you don't know that personand you reach out cold on
LinkedIn or send an email orwhatever, they're probably busy

(27:29):
doing whatever they're doing andthey're not going to respond.
And uh so it's hard to get infront of them and have them pay
attention.
So the best way to get in frontof them is have somebody reach
out to them on your behalf andbroker that introduction.
Yeah.
Uh somebody that they know andthey trust.
So if I if I reach out tosomebody who worked for me at
Salesforce and we you know spentfive years together and and uh

(27:52):
they trusted me, and I said,hey, you should talk to Josh
Matthews.
He's recruiting for this roleright now, um, and I think it
would be a really good fit foryou.
The probability that they replyand that you actually get a
meeting with that person'sreally high, right?
So that's number one.
Number one is you know, ifyou're looking for talent,
figure out how to get to thattalent via somebody that can

(28:14):
introduce you to them.
The other thing is um, is thatperson any good?
Um and so back channeling wasreally that's a big thing that
our venture firm customers useConnect the Dots for.
Is uh you know, they're lookingfor uh whatever VP of product
or VP of marketing or whateverthe role is for one of their
portfolio companies.

(28:35):
And uh you can leverage yourConnect the Dots network to see,
ah, okay, I can see the people,the eight people that I know
well that have the strongestrelationship with that person.
And then you ping them and say,hey, what was it like working
with Drew or whoever?
And uh then you like, okay,well, here's the real scoop, you
know, this is what Drew's like.
And uh so you have a much moreum you know informed perspective

(28:59):
on who that person is.
Um so that's on the you know,looking for talent side and then
back channeling talent to makesure that a person's actually
somebody good that you want.
And the uh and then as far asyou know the business
development side of yourbusiness, just you know, finding
new people, new companies uhfor recruiting services, that's
kind of right down the middlewhat we do.

(29:20):
You know, we you know if youknow a if you know the target
accounts, the companies that youreally want to sell to, that
you that you that your ICPs, theones that should be leveraging
you for recruiting, then youjust you put that list into
connect the dots and makes it apiece of cake to see, okay,
these are the strongestrelationships that you've got to
get directly to the hiringmanagers or the person in HR

(29:43):
who's responsible forrecruiting.
And then the the this all goesback to one simple principle.
It's a very noisy world rightnow.
It is very hard to break intothe consciousness of somebody.
There's too much stuff goingon, and AI is just making it
worse.
And the thing that cuts throughall of the noise fast is

(30:04):
somebody you know reaches out toyou.
You know that person well, andthen all of a sudden you pay
attention to it because that'ssomebody you know well.
And you read it and you replyto it, and you pick up the phone
and whatever you do, becauseyou know you know that person.

Josh Matthews (30:16):
That's it.
100%, man.
100%.
I'll tell you, I probably getabout, I don't know, maybe
somewhere in the range of 15 to20, sometimes 30 requests a week
for conversations and meetings.
And I don't take almost any ofthem.
I mean, if it's a higher, theseare candidates, right?
If it's a hiring manager, yeah,like of course, for first and
foremost, but we're too busy.

(30:36):
Like we're just too busy.
I'm too busy.
You talked about my productionteam, you're looking at it,
right?
So, you know, there's a lot ofhours that go into this stuff,
but about three times a week, Iget a LinkedIn message from
someone, hey, I'm introducingyou to so and so, or I get a
phone call, hey, my buddy'scalling.
I might never be able to placethat person, I might never be

(30:58):
able to place someone with thatperson.
It doesn't matter.
These are my friends, and theirfriends are my friends, and I'm
gonna help them.
And I don't think I'm at all,like not even remotely, an
oddball in this.
I think everyone is like that.
So your technical SaaS AIcompany is so so human, so

(31:21):
behaviorally focused.
I'm really kind of curious.
Have did you or or your teamhave to really go into beyond
data science for this and reallydive into human behavioral
science to really get the likejust squeeze this thing, get it
to freaking work, you know?
Yeah.
What did you do that?

Drew Sechrist (31:42):
I mean, I would say we're in the thick of it.
Like, you know, the uh theincentive aligned, like in why
do people do things?
You know, Charlie Munger wouldsay, Well, look at the incentive
and I'll show you the outcome,right?
Yeah, I'll show you thebehavior.
And so there's a there's somany, it's like we could we
could have a many, many hourconversation on this topic

(32:04):
alone.
Uh yeah, let's just keep going.
Let's go.
Yeah, let's go.
Let's go.
Um, you know, and to somedegree, like uh Malcolm Bladwell
in the tipping point, he coversa lot of this stuff.
Yeah.
Uh but there are you know,there are extrinsic and there
are intrinsic uh motivations forpeople or incentives.
And um, and I, you know, Iexperience both.

(32:25):
You I'm sure you experienceboth.
Every human does, yeah.
Yeah.
Uh so you get paid for certainthings, and you know, like,
okay, that's that's a prettygood motivator, right?
Um, when I was at Salesforce, Isold a lot of SaaS, not just
because I believed in my heartthat it was the right thing to
do, but also because I had apretty generous compensation
plan that Mark made for me, sothat I, you know, the more I

(32:45):
sold, the more money I made.
Sure.
And um, so the yes, you'rehitting the nail on the head.
There is uh there's there's abig technical problem that we
needed to solve, and we'vesolved the technical problem.
I would say there's still theuh the human behavioral problem
that we are we've like partiallysolved it.

(33:06):
And um, and I I'll explore someof the the intricacies of it.
We have a we have a number ofboard members, um, and we also
have some board observers, and Iknow a lot of board members of
a lot of different companies.
I just know a whole ton ofthem, uh, just because I'm a
Silicon Valley CEO and you knowI've been in you know dealt with
VC firms for a long time.

(33:27):
I know a lot of these people,and they are not all the same,
they're very different.
Shocking.
They're very different.
Yeah, yeah.
And I I do this all the time.
My team's probably sick of thecity.

Josh Matthews (33:37):
And on purpose, too, right?
I mean, for sure.
If every board member lookedthe same, every company would
look exactly the same.
It's it'd be weird.

Drew Sechrist (33:46):
Yes, it would be weird.
So they I do this a lot.
My team's probably sick, sickof me doing a bell curve.
I'm like, there's a bell curvein the world of, and then fill
in the blank, you know, boardmembers or apples or you know,
toenails.
Like there's a bell curvedistribution on a lot of lot of
different things.
And you will have like someboard members that you know are

(34:08):
super gregarious connectortypes.
Sure.
And then you will have somethat are super spooky, they
don't want you to know who theyknow, and they like they're very
they jealously guard theirnetworks, and uh, you know, you
gotta have a really good reasonfor them to you know want to
make an introduction for you.
And then there's everybody inbetween, right?
So there's like number onething is there are just a lot of

(34:30):
people are just different.
They they're they have theirtheir different points of view
on things.
Um that's one thing.
Another thing is you're thereare some things that are logical
about uh incentives, alignmentof incentives, or lack of
alignment of incentives.
So for example, if you knowyour number one competitor said,
Hey Josh, I see you have a goodrelationship with this you know

(34:52):
prospect that I'd like to sellmy services to, could you make
an introduction for me?
Well, your incentives are notaligned.
You might be like, you know,you're my number one competitor.
No, right.
I'm not gonna do that.
But if it's uh you know, ifit's your brother-in-law and
you, you know, you yourbrother-in-law is putting your
nieces and nephews throughcollege embraces and and you

(35:15):
want you make sure that yournieces and nephews have a good
life, then you're gonna, youknow, probably introduce your
brother-in-law to that person tohelp your brother-in-law, you
know, sell whatever yourbrother-in-law sells.
Um, so you know, those aredifferent incentives.
You know, like are yourincentives aligned or are they
not aligned?
Um, there are you know,extrinsic and intrinsic.
So like if somebody's gettingpaid, if you get paid to make

(35:37):
introductions or if you haveequity in a company, let's say
you're a board member or aninvestor in a company, then
you're highly motivated to seethat company succeed.
So, you know, there you youwant to help them with an
introduction.
But you know, also you don'tnecessarily want to be paid to
make introductions.
It's you know, it might feeldirty to you depending on who
you are in life.

(35:57):
Like if if you're a reseller ofa company and it's above board
and everybody knows it, you'relike, oh, we are a reseller of
XYZ's product, and then youintroduce yourself as such and
you run a sales cycle, that'sone thing.

Josh Matthews (36:09):
But if you're just a person who's getting paid
to make introductions to theirfriends, it's disingenuous, it's
disingenuous, and people cansniff that out so fast.
They it's just we're the way wecan sniff out bad AI, good I
good AI is very difficult tosniff out.
You can still kind of sniff itout, but it's it's hard to sniff
out.
But every anyone nowadays who'sawake and at a computer four or

(36:34):
more hours a day can sniff outbad AI, I would think.
Yeah.
Right.
And it's the same thing.
And you know, I've been I'vebeen deep diving into this
heavy, heavy um behavioralanalysis stuff lately.
I love it.
And my listeners will tell you,oh yeah, this guy won't shut
the hell up about it.
And a lot of it was just like,you know, early days of just
like MBTI, MBTI, like justgenerally Myers-Briggs stuff,

(36:57):
like generally understanding howdoes someone see the world, how
do they make decisions, um, youknow, what information are they
actually taking in?
You know, how do they chargethe battery?
Like that kind of stuff.
Do they have conversations withthemselves that are actually
effective, or do they have to belike me and talk before the
ideas even come out?
All that, all that, yeah,right.
Extroverts, right?

(37:17):
Even if you're barely anextrovert, you're still gonna be
that way.
And now it's like, okay, let'slook at other things like
people's real core motivations.
This person wants significance.
This person wants to be knownas odd and weird and not part of
the crew, you know, and andthese people want um, you know,
they're gonna make decisionsbased on longevity and

(37:38):
investment and 100%practicality.
Other people, like Iinterviewed this gal the other
day, and lovely lady, she's justgot a second interview.
She loves to go off-roading.
She's got 24 ladies that areall probably over 50 or
whatever, wide range, and theygo off-roading together.
That is a hundred percent,that's an acceptance,

(37:59):
acceptance, nothing wrong withit.
All of them, every everyone'sgot probably two main ones.
That's her big one, right?
Is acceptance.
And you'll even hear it in howthey talk we this, we that,
right?
The team, team, team.
And it's being able to figureout what someone is so that you
can at least talk theirlanguage.
And it can get really weird,Drew, because you don't want to

(38:22):
be um, what's the word, creepyor manipulative?
And when we really study humanbehavior, and I'm sure you and
the team already know this.
Like, are we manipulating or orare we facilitating?
And it's sometimes kind of amurky line.
I'm kind of curious, have youguys run into any of that stuff
yet?

Drew Sechrist (38:42):
I mean, in my career, absolutely.
Yeah.
You know, when you're whenyou're doing enterprise sales,
like you you ask yourself thatuh all the time.
Like, what because they're alltypes of things that you do in
the sales in the salesprofession to drive the outcome.
Your your goal is to get theoutcome, right?
Um, and um so I would say thenumber one thing is is this

(39:06):
really in the best interest ofthe person that you are you know
that you are talking to?
And if it's not, then youprobably fall in the category of
manipulation.
And if it is, if you reallybelieve it, then then it falls
in the category of I don't know,uh assistance or honest effort.

Josh Matthews (39:23):
Yeah.

Drew Sechrist (39:23):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So um and in our yeah, so I I Ido think about this a lot for
our customers because ourcustomers could if one of the
big challenges that ourcustomers have is for the people
that are have clear incentivealignment, great.
Yeah.
For the people for the peopleout there that don't have clear

(39:46):
incentive alignment that theythey know, but they don't have
clear incentive alignment, howcan they unlock those
introductions, thoserelationships that could happen?
Um, and throwing money at itmay not be the right thing.
Uh, you know, because thatmight be the disingenuous thing.
That might be the you know thething that just doesn't feel

(40:07):
good to people.
Yeah.
So um so the answer is yes,Josh.
I think about this all thetime.
And uh and I don't I don't havea solid answer on this.
Again, there's a lot of nuance.
In some situations, it'stotally fine to be kind of a
reseller type person or somebodygets a referral fee.
In other situations, it's not.
And you know, like I I knowsome CFOs out there that have

(40:30):
been brought on board asadvisors to companies and they
they will make introductions aspart of their advisory services,
and they introduce themselvesas an advisor to that company,
and it's totally totally aboveboard.
Now, when you know you thinkabout an advisor in Silicon in
Silicon Valley speak, advisortypically means, oh, they gave
me some equity in the company,and I give them some advice and
I open up some doors for them.

(40:50):
That's my impression.
Is that kind of yourimpression?
Yeah, that's my impression.
What if we what if wesubstituted uh equity for cash?
I'm an advisor, and I uh and soI I give them advice in return
for some cash and I open up somedoors for them in return for
for cash.
Feels a little different.

Josh Matthews (41:07):
You know what it feels like?
It feels like the abortiondebate.
At what day?
I mean, it's just like, well,equity is gonna be cash,
hopefully, if everybody did theright thing.
One's a gamble, right?
It just it's like, well, whatabout the day before that?
What about two days beforebirth?
Not to get totally off trackhere, but it's not that
dissimilar, is it?

(41:28):
I mean, a murky thing with avague gray timeline.

Drew Sechrist (41:32):
Yes.
And but there's a feel to it aswell.
There's uh an emotional feel.
It's like, you know, there'ssomething I don't know, there's
something that's more nobleabout you know equity and less
noble about cash, but and that'swestern, by the way, right?

Josh Matthews (41:46):
Like it might be very different in India, it
might be very different inAfrica.
You know, these things can feelum, you know, we have to, I'm
just wanting to acknowledge it'suh often a Western culture
thing.
Yes.
Because I don't know about theother cultures, don't live
there.
Yeah.
Yeah.

Drew Sechrist (42:06):
Um so there you go.
Yes.
Think about this a lot, Josh.
So if they if you wake up inthe middle of the night with
some really interesting insightsand solutions to the uh you
know the human dynamic, thebehavioral dynamic, then please
ping me.

Josh Matthews (42:19):
Well, look, I know it's getting late.
You've been an awesome guest.
Let me ask you just one or twomore questions.
And yeah, this has been areally fun conversation for me,
just so you know.
So um I'm kind of interested inyou know, what's next?
Like, what's the next biginnovation for CTD?

(42:39):
Like you you're I know you're aforward-thinking guy.
Sometimes it's like, okay,forward thinking, now let's
build it.
Now let's build it.
Are we there?
Test, iterate, move on.
But like what's what's going onin your head and in
leadership's head like rightnow?
AI's going ape shit, you know.
Yeah.
What are you guys thinking?

Drew Sechrist (42:59):
Uh we're so I'll tell you the thing right now,
and then I'll tell you the maybethe thing that's a little bit
farther out because we'replaying with it right now.
The thing right now is justlike uh make it so that you can
have a conversation with yournetwork about your network.
So whatever you're looking for,you just type in your desire,
and then we give you the dataabout it.
So that could be like I'mflying, I'm flying to New York

(43:20):
next week.
I want to meet with um, youknow, I want to meet with senior
executives at any of the targetaccounts that we're selling to
uh where I can have a strongrelationship path in and I can
get an introduction to them.
And then boom, voila, we'llgive you that like magic list so
that by when you land in NewYork, you've got you know twenty
twenty meetings that you canhave lined up uh with really

(43:41):
relevant people.
And um, so that's we want tomake it just so it's so easy you
just talk to it and you getexactly the magic results about
your network.

Josh Matthews (43:49):
Wish I had that for going to Dreamforce next
week.

Drew Sechrist (43:52):
Yeah, we all do.
And uh so so uh our customershave a version of that right
now, but um the uh it's it'sit's getting better by leaps and
bounds, you know, every day.
So uh that's the thing that'skind of immediately coming out.
Very cool.
The thing that's a little bitlonger is um I got the first
Meta Ray band glasses uh and andplayed with them, and uh, we're

(44:16):
getting another another set ofsmart glasses.
What I there there's auniversal problem that we I
don't know, pretty universal, Ithink, unless you unless you're
Bill Clinton and you've got hismemory.
I see people all the time.
If I bumped into you on thestreet in two months in San
Francisco, I might remember yourface, and but I probably
wouldn't be able to put it alltogether.

(44:38):
You know, just a differentcontext at San Francisco on the
street, you know.
We we did a podcast together.
I chased the stash, maybe, youknow.
Maybe you save the stash, hadall my teeth knocked out, you
know.
Yep, yep.
Where you curled the stash withsome you know, mustache
mustache glasses, there you go.
I think I think you should dothat.

(44:58):
Do you um I don't know?
I've tried I've done it, yeah.
Uh but I uh what I really wishis I had a pair of magic glasses
that would say, that's JoshMatthews.
Last time you interacted withhim was two months ago.
He did a podcast.
Oh wow.
And uh and so we're not farfrom that.
Like we're not far like theglass, like the glasses facial

(45:19):
recognition technology exists.
The thing that doesn't reallyexist is the the tool.
Well, the the tool that tellsyou who you know and how and
gives you all the context abouthow you know the person.
It kind of does exist though.
And so we we are not uh likethose two things, like chocolate

(45:40):
and peanut butter, could goreally well together here, where
those glasses could justwhisper in my ear and tell me
exactly who you are with theright context.
Because the c it's all aboutcontext, just just knowing you
know your name and your companyor whatever may not actually be
very useful because I don'tknow, I've got 8,000 LinkedIn
contacts, and if I heard aperson's name, company might

(46:01):
mean nothing to me.
Yeah, but what would meansomething to me is last time you
talked to that person, youknow, you guys communicated 48
times over the course of aperiod of four years from 2010
to 2014 while you were at XYZcompany and he was at you know
ABC Company, and this is whatyou discussed, and maybe like

(46:23):
have you know, like you know,this is his wife's name, and uh
this is it, you know, he's gotthese kids and like that, like
this for all of your my 44.
I've got 44,000 contacts inConnect the Dots that have been
found from all my communicationswith them 44,000.
So that would be straight upsuperpower, dude.

Josh Matthews (46:45):
For real.
I want them and I want them forMonday, Tuesday, Wednesday, and
Thursday in downtown SanFrancisco.
Of course, yeah.
I'm I'm lucky, I'll go tothese, you know, I'll go to a
party, I'll go to the concert,whatever.
Someone is always like, heyJosh Matthews, you know, love
your show, like whatever.
Like so it's nice to be thishonestly, it's like going to a
hometown for a few days for me.

(47:06):
I really love going toDreamforce because I know way
more people there than I do herein Jupiter, Florida.
Um, but it's one of thosethings like more people remember
me than I can remember becauseI talked to so many people.
And there's anotherapplication.
I mean, I know that you guyshave a minimum license, right?
Like minimum seats.

(47:26):
This is enterprise software.

Drew Sechrist (47:28):
We we yeah, we so you can get it, you can set up
a free account.
And so the free minimum is one,and that's free.
Okay.
To use our business edition uhaccount.
There's no technically nominimum on that, but we just we
don't we we don't target smallcompanies because it's there's
not a lot of money there.
So we focus on companies thathave you know over a hundred or

(47:48):
two hundred employees, generallyspeaking.
But you know, smaller companiesand even individuals can get a
ton of value out of it.

Josh Matthews (47:55):
I'm signing up, man.
You might have anotherapplication too for people who
have facial blindness.
You know what that is?
You've heard of that?

Drew Sechrist (48:03):
I can guess what it is.
Yeah, I mean somebody you don'tyeah, you don't know who the
person is that you're lookingat.

Josh Matthews (48:08):
Yeah, you could like I met someone who has that
just uh maybe two, three weeksago, right?
And it's it's more common thanyou think, and there's grades of
it, right?
So there's the there's the thatexperience of like, I know I've
seen that person, I have noidea who their name is.
I'm terrible with names, by theway.
Yeah, other people can't evenrecognize the face, even if they

(48:29):
met them that morning, right?
Yeah, like it's it's severe,like they just can't do it.
There's a real application forthat, just like medically,
socially medically.

Drew Sechrist (48:39):
Yeah, agree, agreed.
I and I I don't I don't haveI'm sure I'm not clinically at
facial blindness, but there aredefinitely faces that I can't
place the name to infrequently,and um so probably not you know,
not I wouldn't be diagnosablefor it, but I would definitely
pay money for the glasses thatwould make that problem go away.

(49:01):
Absolutely, so would I.
So would I.
Wonderful.
Well, that's that's the that'sthe labs thing.
So the the first thing I toldyou about that's coming soon.
Yeah.
The glasses thing is a littlebit more in the you know RD
phase right now, but we'reworking on that's exciting, man.

Josh Matthews (49:16):
That's so exciting.
Um, one last question.
So, for founders, sales leadersright now, what do you think is
other than signing up, gettingconnected dots, what do you
think is one under-leveragedstrategy in in their network
that they're likely to beignoring and at their own peril?
Kind of a weird question, Iknow.

Drew Sechrist (49:39):
Yeah, you might have to edit out the long pause
for me to think about it, butthe under-leveraged strategy.

Josh Matthews (49:45):
Um, this is good, this is good television right
now.
People like to watch peoplethink it's good.
Yeah.
How about I do this?
How about I ask it in adifferent way?
Sure.
Because it's kind of a shittyquestion.

Drew Sechrist (49:59):
I don't know.
That's a good question.
I'd like I'd like to know formyself, and then I want to go
implement it.
Um, I'm just trying to thinkwhat it is.

Josh Matthews (50:05):
Well, okay, so taking away you got it?
I got it.

Drew Sechrist (50:11):
Okay.
All right.
Small dinners.
I think uh I think a smalldinner with uh six to eight
people, yeah um, and combinationof like uh people who wanna
sell into the same companies oryou know have relationships that
can be helpful for each other,yeah.
Prospects, your customers, yeahuh your you know partners.

(50:35):
I think uh you gotta eat yougotta eat dinner, right?
And uh everybody has to eatfood.
And if you if you keep it smallenough, I like six to eight
people total around the tablebecause then you know one
conversation, everybody can heareach other.
Yeah, I think magic happensthen.
Really, I think it's like uhyou can you the conversation can
go anywhere, you can find youknow lots of different potential

(50:57):
introductions, you can converta prospect into a customer, you
can have a customer sell toseveral of your prospects.
Um, I think that's a a greattool.
And if you particularly if youlive in an area where like San
Francisco is great for that, oryou know, major metros are great
for that.
Sure.
Um, because you can you cankind of always gin up a good
dinner with um with people whowill uh will help each other.

(51:22):
And so I I would say that'sthat's one thing I I like.

Josh Matthews (51:26):
I love it, man.
I was actually thinking forwhen I was looking at boats, I
was thinking, just get a boat,take it down the intercoastal,
right?
And stop in West Palm, six,seven, eight people on there,
hang out for a couple hours,crash at a hotel, take it down
to Fort Lauderdale, do the samething two one or two times the

(51:47):
next day, go down to Miami,spend two days in Miami, do it
there, and bet that boat wouldpay for itself, and I'd make a
lot of great acquaintances, andI'd be able to solve a lot of
problems and help people toconnect with the right people so
that they can solve theirproblems together without me.

Drew Sechrist (52:05):
Sign me up.
My two spots for my wife andme.
We'll pick us up in SouthBeach.
I love it, man.

Josh Matthews (52:11):
I love it.
Well, I might just do that.
I I am in a boat club, so wecould just go do that anyway.
But I'd love to get some reallygood people together and get a
slightly nicer boat than, youknow, just like a good, decent
boat, and let's go hang out.
Yeah.
Yeah.
All right, bud.

Drew Sechrist (52:26):
I'll be your beta test.

Josh Matthews (52:27):
I love it.
I love it.
This has been such a lovelyconversation, Drew.
Thank you so much.
Can you share where can peoplefind more information about you?
Let's add to that 8,000 uhcontacts that you've got on
LinkedIn and help them find thissoftware so that they can grow
their uh well, not it's notreally, I gotta edit this shit
now, so that they can so theycan leverage their network

(52:50):
better.

Drew Sechrist (52:51):
Yeah, absolutely.
Well, um, you can find me uh soyou can email me.
I'm an email guy, Drew atctd.ai.
Our website is obviouslyctd.ai, like connecttheds.ai.
Uh and then I'm on I'm onLinkedIn.
It's uh, you know, LinkedInslash Drew Secrist.
So pretty easy to find.

(53:11):
Hit me up, any of those places,and I'd love to hear from you.
And you can, by the way, go toour website, ctd.ai, and as Josh
and I were discussing, you canset up your own free ConnectThe
Dots account for life.

Josh Matthews (53:23):
Well, I'm gonna be signing up right after this,
and I'm stoked, and I'll give alittle update in uh in a month
or two about how all of that isgoing.
If you've been listening tothis on the podcast, be sure to
check out the video.
The video is gonna be availableon the Josh Force channel.
It's YouTube.com, something orother, Josh Force, one word.
And if you're watching this onJosh Force, well, you can go to

(53:46):
the hiringedge.ai.
And you can also find us onSpotify, Apple, like 30 other
platforms, whatever yourfavorite um platform is for
podcasts, go ahead and check itout.
Thanks again, Drew.
You guys have a wonderful,wonderful uh season coming up.
I hope that you achieve all ofthese fantastic goals.

(54:07):
It's been wonderful to catchup.
Thanks for having me, Josh.
You got it, buddy.