April 16, 2024 • 24 mins
Embark on a transformative journey through the nuanced world of home painting, guided by my, Chris Kirby, decades-long expertise. Peel back the layers of wallpaper woes and decorative painting finesse, as I reveal the secrets that can take your home projects from mundane to masterful. From the fast-paced demands of production painting to the detail-oriented challenges of custom work, this episode is a goldmine for DIYers, contractors, and aficionados alike. Discover the finesse required in specialty niches such as the artful technique of brick painting, and arm yourself with the knowledge to navigate residential construction's most intricate tasks.
Venture further into the tactical arena of the painting business as I dissect the strategic approaches that distinguish successful enterprises. Learn how to tailor your craft for the high standards of custom home projects and navigate the precarious domain of color consultations with confidence. As we unravel the complexities of job estimating and the delicate balance of quality versus quantity, you'll gain invaluable insights from my own professional journey. This episode isn't just about painting; it's about crafting a vision, mastering a skill, and elevating the beauty of home design. Don't just listen—transform your approach and leave your mark on the canvas of the construction industry.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
The Home Building and Remodeling Show.
Let's go.
Welcome everybody to the HomeBuilding and Remodeling Show.
My name is Chris Kirby and I'llbe your host.
(00:21):
I am the owner of threeconstruction companies on the
Alabama Gulf Coast.
The show is about residentialconstruction.
We're going to cover topics ofhome building and remodeling.
Are you thinking of doing aremodel or building a home?
Are you a contractor looking toimprove your knowledge base or
grow your business?
Have you ever done a remodelproject or built a home?
(00:42):
There were so many things youwish you knew or that you could
have done differently during theprocess.
Then this show is for you.
We break down the process ofbuilding and remodeling and how
to have the best results duringyour project.
Whether you're a DIYer lookingfor tips, someone looking to
hire a contractor to do aproject, or a contractor looking
(01:04):
to expand your knowledge baseor your business, welcome aboard
.
Glad to have you.
Stay tuned.
We kick off the show with mythoughts on home building and
remodeling.
I'll share best practices andtalk about some of our
experiences in business and outin the field.
These shared thoughts andlessons learned are meant to
help you on your very ownjourney.
(01:25):
Let's go.
The next one would be wallpaper.
Wallpaper is a beast and I knowthat anybody who is watching
this that's a painter especiallyis going to tell you well, if
they don't focus on thewallpaper, there are a lot of
painters who stay away from thatstuff.
We've had our issues with it inthe past.
(01:47):
Either do you paint over it,can you paint over it yes, you
can, but you got to do certainthings to be able to do it.
It's tough to get off of thewall.
The best thing to do is toremove it and then do the paint.
There's just so many differentways that you can mess that part
up, as far as just removing itand then, not having the
(02:09):
knowledge on how to do it andremove it correctly, fix the
wall back after you removed itand then install new wallpaper.
There's a lot.
We have in our area one reallygood person at it and that's all
she does and that's all shefocuses on, and she is the go-to
wallpaper person and she staysbooked out and stays busy
(02:31):
because she's really good at it.
That's wallpaper.
I do not like wallpaper.
I know a lot of you may do it,but I'm telling you it's so easy
especially now with thepatterns and everything to mess
up.
That's that.
And then the other one I putafter that was decorative
painting, right, murals and whatthey would say is an artist's
(02:54):
touch.
So some people want like, onour building, we might have
somebody come out and paint amural, we might have somebody
out to do some sort of artisticeven writing on the wall these
days is prevalent Making theseimpact statements on the wall as
a business owner, as a leader,having written word on your wall
in your business is big.
(03:16):
There's people who hand dothese things and that are
artists that actually paint andthat's what they focus on.
They pick these individualthings.
These are all things you can doas an individual contractor and
specialize in.
Now, those are also things thatyou can grow beyond being an
individual contractor andspecialized in.
(03:37):
And then, continuing with theniche side, you can also look at
just painting residential homesand you can.
Realistically, you can alsolook at just painting
residential homes and you can.
Realistically, you can.
There are so many avenues to godown just in residential
painting.
For instance, around here wehave a one of the large
production builders that we callthem track.
(03:59):
They build these track homesand they really need painters
who are production painters.
They go in.
We say blow and go and thatmeans that they're going to go
in at a certain price per squarefoot and they're going to knock
that thing out and move to thenext.
Now those aren't your high-end,high-quality finish homes that
take a lot of specialization.
(04:20):
Those are I can paint the walls, ceilings and get out of their
type of homes.
Same thing on the exterior andthey are mass produced and they
are.
There are painters who havecrews that just do that and they
build their.
They build their businessaround that.
There's nothing wrong with that.
In residential, besides doingthe high volume production type
(04:43):
of painting, there is the highend homes, the quality homes,
and that is a specific nichebecause as a painter, you can do
one home and make enough moneyoff of that one home as compared
to doing 10 of the productionstyle homes.
It really is about quality,what you use and how you do it.
But that's a specific niche toois staying in these high-end
(05:09):
homes, high-end neighborhoodswith tons of custom interior
trim work and the expectationand detail is very specific and
those houses you've got to takeyour time, do quality work and
those aren't rush jobs.
The clients are paying a lot ofmoney for that custom detail
(05:30):
and that level of attention, andthat's why focusing on the
high-end custom homes is a Iwould classify it as its own
thing.
Not that you can't do both, butit is very hard to build
systems and employees and thingsand be able to accommodate both
.
That's why I say that youpainters out there may disagree.
(05:52):
You may have different reasonswhy you disagree, so let me hear
it.
That's fine, that's somethingthat I'm open for discussion on,
because it is important tounderstand the differences in
production and quality.
As far as a painting goes, allright, that was all number one.
Oh, and I don't want to leavethis off.
(06:13):
But brick painting, germansmear that is a specialty in
itself and some people I knowagain, there's a local guy here
that's all he really does isthat whitewash, that German
smear, that water wash, the limewash, whatever you want to call
it.
Here we call it German smear,but that gives the house a
(06:33):
little bit different detail andthat is a specialty and there is
a process to that.
Again, that goes back to beingable to know what you're going
to get into, how to do it,specialize in it and become
known for it, and you're goingto have tons of work because
once you pick that nicheespecially a niche that's not
(06:53):
popular, that is rare as far asbeing able to have the talent to
do it right and you become thego-to on that, you are
definitely going to be able togrow your business as you become
known.
Number one was specialize inniches.
Number two is invest in highquality tools and supply.
I could go on and on aboutinvesting in high quality tools
(07:14):
and supplies and how thatimpacts you as a contractor and
how that increases your revenue,because tools every ever it
seems like every week they arecoming out.
These tool manufacturers arecoming out with better tools,
higher end tools, tools thathelp produce faster results and
(07:39):
with less labor intensive,things like these sprayers and
these, the different types ofpaints that you can do onsite.
You don't have to take everydoor off.
You can do it right there inthe kitchen.
You just have to mask upproperly, but being able to.
At first you may not be able toafford some of those higher end
tools, but as you, as you growand as you get money and as you
(08:04):
get more work, investing in yourtools is critical because you
want to the the output that youcan perform with higher end
tools is just different.
The results are better, I know,and as far as on the carpentry
side, the saws you use matterand and the tools you use matter
as it as it pertains to theresults of how that trim
(08:26):
carpentry look.
It's the same thing with paint.
What tools, the quality oftools, the, the money that you
put into taking care of andinvesting in your tools that
type of stuff will help you andit makes you look more
professional.
When you show up with theproper tools to do the job, they
know they're gonna take youserious because they can see
(08:46):
that you're investing in yourcraft, you're investing in your
tools, you're investing in yourwork and you're investing in
your business by getting goodtools and upgrading to better
tools in the future.
So that was number two investin quality tools and supplies.
Number three offercomprehensive services.
This goes back to.
(09:08):
We talked about specializing asan individual contractor.
As you grow and you get morepeople on your team, they may
specialize in different areasthan you.
They may qualify as a painterright, they know how to paint.
They've been doing it for years.
Know how to paint They've beendoing it for years, but just
like anybody else, they hone inon a very specific part of their
(09:29):
passion.
What they're passionate aboutand what they do is that you
might be very, very, very goodat cabinets and you may hire
somebody who can paint that'svery, very, very good at doors,
or very good at residentialpainting.
Now you've got residentialpainting and you've got cabinets
, so you're offering both andthen, once you move past that,
(09:52):
you may have somebody who knowshow to do a little bit of
drywall.
Now I wouldn't say go andbecome a massive drywall company
, but patches and repairs aresomething that a painter can
make their way on and gain alittle bit of work by doing that
.
If you're doing the patch,repair, the paint and then
you're doing the cabinets, nowyou're just continuing to add to
(10:14):
your portfolio.
And now we move into Shop Talk.
It's the portion of the showwhere I bring in a co-host and
we cover trending topics in homebuilding and remodeling.
Hope you enjoy.
Let's go.
When he mentions that, hementions it with the purpose of
letting me know that the homesthey were doing were one, two,
(10:37):
three up to $10 million homes.
Speaker 3 (10:39):
Yeah, they were not spec homes.
I learned how to do that withsome of the best painters in the
area old school painters.
We used to have competitions onwho could cut the straightest
line and who could get done witha room.
I love that.
I just don't see that anymore.
Yeah, you don't see thatcompetition and that drive and
building those relationships anda team atmosphere, and so
(10:59):
that's what I shoot for isbuilding that culture of so how
can we improve?
So starting so, how old wereyou when you, when you got into
paint?
So that when I haven't hit,that must've been.
I see 97, 98, 97.
Speaker 1 (11:15):
Okay, 20.
That's dang, you're gettingthere.
I was 27 years ago, yeah, 20.
Speaker 3 (11:20):
dang, you're getting there.
That's 27 years ago, yeah, 20.
Speaker 1 (11:22):
so I'm 44 now, so a little over 20 years gotcha okay
, you know people talk about andand I'm glad you said custom
homes and it's not a spec home,because what we've run across
sometimes too, is you have thismentality and it and it's very
prevalent in paint, where youknow you large production
builders, track home builders,whatever you call them, where
(11:45):
you're from, and it's calledblow and go.
Yep, right, can you talk to meabout the proper way to say it
is production painting.
Yeah, okay, talk to me about aproduction painting and nothing,
again, nothing wrong with that,because the spec builders, for
the budget that they're wantingto build these houses, are
paying a lower every avenue.
(12:05):
That's right.
All right, talk to me aboutproduction painters.
What is that mindset and whereyou differentiate yourself from
the?
Speaker 3 (12:15):
production mindset.
So a production mindset iscoming in and you're getting
from start to finish of that jobas fast as possible because
you're on a very low budget.
Yeah, very low budget.
Your painters are not highquality painters, they're not
bad.
And that's the first question Iask.
When I hire somebody that'stold me they've been painting
for 20 years, my first questionis what have you been painting
(12:36):
for 20 years?
Because if you've been paintingapartments or you've been
painting spec houses, you maynot fit into what we do.
That's right.
Speaker 1 (12:43):
Because it's a speed versus quality.
That's right.
And you know, I've run into itwith the people we hire
sometimes here.
They aren't used to Mondaythrough Friday atmosphere taking
time and making sure the workthey are go, go, go, go go.
Yeah, and sometimes I don'thave 50, 60, 70 hours to give
(13:07):
them every week and they'regreat at what they do.
But it's a production mentalityand construction that is.
We've got to finish this asfast as possible because the
check is sitting in our facewhen the project is done.
And then it's more rightBecause you're like well,
production's the way to go,because you know XYZ is building
(13:27):
150 homes.
I want 150 homes.
But what they're not realizingis you have to make a sacrifice
to do that.
That's right.
You're on their dime, theirschedule and guess what, when
they're tired of you notperforming, they can let you go
when you control your destiny.
You don't have to do 150 homes.
(13:48):
You can do less than a third ofthat and make the same money
because of what you charge andthe quality of work that you put
out.
That's right, Right.
And you have more in yourrepertoire.
You put out, that's right,Right, and you have more in your
repertoire.
So do you got and I don't knowanymore?
Do you mess with cabinets, trimcustom?
I mean any of that type ofstuff, or talk to me about what
(14:08):
you're focused on.
Speaker 3 (14:09):
So our DBA is Cyclops , painting and Coatings, because
we coat a lot of stuff.
I don't mess with furniture,small items like that.
We will do cabinets.
It's not one of our main thingsthat we do, but we do
everything from a newconstruction home to a
commercial building.
Two months ago we weresandblasting an 11,000 square
foot metal building Sandblastingand then two coating with the
(14:32):
macro epoxy and I want to deepdive a little bit here.
Speaker 1 (14:36):
When you because you're the business owner one of
the things that, when they'redoing this production mentality
are you still looking at a priceper square foot on your
estimates?
I won't get into specific costs, but is that how you do that?
And I know in production sideor spec home side, it's a floor
square foot, yeah.
Speaker 3 (14:56):
No, so we break it down per house, per trim package
.
I can estimate closely by asquare foot price per floor,
sure, but when you get in thesecustom houses that we do, the
trim packages are all different.
You walk into a room and yougot a 20-foot ceiling.
There you go, a covered ceiling, stained trim or stained doors,
or you know Even the size ofthe door.
(15:16):
So how would you give a squarefoot?
Speaker 1 (15:19):
price for that, right ?
What's your recommendationthere for the beginner, right?
We do this show so people whocan they can learn how to do
things, they can learn how to dobusiness.
So for the beginners out therewho's just starting out just
listening to this, because I'vegot you on here talking about
being a paint contractor andrunning a business so what's
(15:41):
your advice when it comes toestimating as far as how to do
it?
So you're saying price persquare foot.
Because you've been doing itfor so long, you can roughly
come up with a number, but thebest practice, the best way to
do it is so I'm actually havingto learn that right now myself
because I just do it.
Speaker 3 (16:00):
I've been in it for so long, but I'm hiring
production managers and I'mstarting to hire sales teams and
to figure out how to get it outof here on to training somebody
else, we are doing the samething.
Speaker 1 (16:13):
And what people don't realize and this is what I
explained to our team is if I'mpaying you, let's just say,
$1,000 a week, and I charge aper square foot number, how do I
know A that you're going to getdone in the time allotted,
(16:33):
right, and that it's going tocost $1,000.
You can't do that.
You can't have.
You know what I mean.
So there has to be a legit wayfor you to break down your price
, to make sure your payroll andcompensation, all that is
covered, and that is somethingthat we have evolved and changed
over time to where Over time,and it's experience.
Speaker 3 (16:53):
That's really where that comes from.
You can look up all kinds ofprograms to try to make this
easier, to bid, and I've usedsome of those just to see if I
could make it easier, and thenI'll look at the price and I'm
like there's no way.
There's no way it works, we'vedone that too, we can do it.
Speaker 1 (17:07):
We've done the same thing where a lot of times, and
especially on the home buildingside, people will come to us
with internet plans, we alwaysrecommend our guy.
They show him the plans andhe'll modify them and make
changes and rewrite the plans.
But what?
Sometimes what they'll do isthey'll pay.
You can pay for a cost report,that's right.
(17:28):
Okay, I did that and almostlost my mind.
I was like hey, where?
Because they tell you to put inyour zip code and I just could
not believe the numbers and Iwas like this doesn't make sense
.
Yeah, it was the one I did.
I did too, actually, and bothof them were no less than 50 to
a hundred thousand dollars on upand and.
(17:50):
And it blew my mind because theproblem with that is the client
is sometimes running thatreport.
Speaker 3 (17:57):
Yeah, and then they're like they can easily
look that up online.
And then they're like well, whyis your price so different?
Yes, and you have to sit thereand break all that stuff down to
them.
That's right.
Speaker 1 (18:05):
And you know what you get, what you pay for in our
industry and time and quality.
All of that stuff you should.
You don't have to take it tothe highest levels, but you have
to make what's right for youand your company and your
employees.
And the client should be, youknow, looking at what type of
company you run, how long you'vebeen in business and these
(18:27):
types of things.
Do you have employees, do youtake care of them?
And that's how you have to getpaid.
Each contractor is different.
Some will have a price persquare foot and that'll suffice
for them, some, you know.
Some will have a breakdownchart and some will have.
It's just different all overthe board.
Speaker 3 (18:44):
There's no blueprint specifically for everybody.
That's not.
Everybody's business costsdifferent to make it and
everybody's production teams aredifferent than that.
So you have to do.
Speaker 1 (18:53):
If you're out there in the beginning stages, you
have to do what's best for youand what you know at first.
And then, as you grow, that'swhere it starts to change.
Your estimate changes andevolves and you're like well,
now I've got two and threepeople, I can't do it for this
cost.
So that's where you know thedifference comes and you start
to learn how to estimate.
(19:14):
But then, moving fromestimating to the prep for
painting or a paint job, how doyou prepare the client for,
especially if you're doinginterior and it's a larger job?
You're going to be there for awhile, so do you?
Speaker 3 (19:32):
talk to the client about those things.
Is that a part of your process?
Communication is key inanything that we do.
We like the customer not tohave, or to have as few
surprises as possible once wecome in Gotcha what area we're
going to be working in in thehouse, if we can cordon off a
section of it to keep them stillliving in the house, you know
then.
We just work on differentsections and we let them know
(19:53):
each day where we're going to beat the next day.
We clean up our mess every daybefore we leave there.
Speaker 1 (20:04):
That way they're not tripping, or if they've got
small children.
Now we're going to move intothe portion of the show where we
talk interior design.
We're going to bring in aninterior designer and we're
going to talk trending designand products.
Hope you enjoy, let's go.
But where?
How can we talk to the clientand them, not hold us liable?
(20:25):
Because that's what's happening, right?
That's what the painter said.
Speaker 2 (20:28):
I would encourage in that situation, for even with
the ones that we've done paintconsults with that they need to.
You can Google those images,you can see those colors.
You can Google those images,you can see those colors the
images.
You can see them.
Instagram is a great way to dothat.
I'm not as familiar withFacebook, but you can hashtag
(20:49):
that paint color and it showsyou all those images and we've
tagged, we've tagged.
Speaker 1 (20:54):
You've done some stuff where we've tagged
Sherwin-Williams in differentcolors that they're using.
But where do you get thatinformation from?
As a designer, you continuallytell me what's not trending and
what is Gray is out.
But like, where does thatinformation come from?
Speaker 2 (21:12):
Well, you're currently working with whatever
they want to keep theirfurniture, then you have to
consider that.
You have to consider theirlight.
I think it's just I was ateenager and painting every wall
in my bedroom.
A lot of that's just trial anderror and experience.
Speaker 1 (21:31):
Well, see, and that's the part I think you hit on is
the experience factor, is thefact that you have experience in
this.
And when you're doing a colorconsult, it's not just something
general.
You're fact finding, you'reasking questions, you're looking
at what's there.
Then, when we're doing like aremodel, you're taking into
(21:53):
consideration what we're goingto put there, because
potentially you're helping themmake those selections along the
way.
Does that all fit into thecolor scheme?
Because typically we do the thepainting at the end of a
project.
We really want everything doneand then we send the painters in
and they do their thing.
And so you were saying that thethe painter is not necessarily
(22:19):
the best at saying I guess notwhat's trendy, but like if this
will look good with something.
Speaker 2 (22:24):
They can have an opinion about it.
But I think what thisparticular painter I was talking
to this morning is trying tosteer away from is the liability
basically that comes with theiropinion, because they're ending
up having to go back and fix orcorrect something that they
suggested.
Sadly, and when you're comingin as a paint console
(22:48):
professional or a designer, whenyou actually have that title
with your name, I feel, likethere's automatically some trust
with that in your opinion.
I?
Speaker 3 (22:57):
agree.
Speaker 2 (22:58):
And then if you're able to show them some work in
that color, that you've done alot of things that throw.
Well, the biggest thing thatthrows someone off is the sheens
.
They're just really confusedwhen they're like oh I didn't
know.
Speaker 1 (23:11):
So sometimes it's also not just the visual part,
but it's having the knowledge ofthe product.
Thanks for joining us today.
As always, we are grateful forour listeners and your continued
support.
Please subscribe to our YouTubechannel.
Follow us on social media viaFacebook, instagram and TikTok.
Get more info at our website,wwwthehomebuildingshowcom.
(23:38):
And, as always, remember who weare the Home Building and
Remodeling Show.
The Home Building and Remodeling Show.
Let's go.
Welcome everybody to the HomeBuilding and Remodeling Show.
My name is Chris Kirby and I'llbe your host.
(00:21):
I am the owner of threeconstruction companies on the
Alabama Gulf Coast.
The show is about residentialconstruction.
We're going to cover topics ofhome building and remodeling.
Are you thinking of doing aremodel or building a home?
Are you a contractor looking toimprove your knowledge base or
grow your business?
Have you ever done a remodelproject or built a home?
(00:42):
There were so many things youwish you knew or that you could
have done differently during theprocess.
Then this show is for you.
We break down the process ofbuilding and remodeling and how
to have the best results duringyour project.
Whether you're a DIYer lookingfor tips, someone looking to
hire a contractor to do aproject, or a contractor looking
(01:04):
to expand your knowledge baseor your business, welcome aboard
.
Glad to have you.
Stay tuned.
We kick off the show with mythoughts on home building and
remodeling.
I'll share best practices andtalk about some of our
experiences in business and outin the field.
These shared thoughts andlessons learned are meant to
help you on your very ownjourney.
(01:25):
Let's go.
The next one would be wallpaper.
Wallpaper is a beast and I knowthat anybody who is watching
this that's a painter especiallyis going to tell you well, if
they don't focus on thewallpaper, there are a lot of
painters who stay away from thatstuff.
We've had our issues with it inthe past.
(01:47):
Either do you paint over it,can you paint over it yes, you
can, but you got to do certainthings to be able to do it.
It's tough to get off of thewall.
The best thing to do is toremove it and then do the paint.
There's just so many differentways that you can mess that part
up, as far as just removing itand then, not having the
(02:09):
knowledge on how to do it andremove it correctly, fix the
wall back after you removed itand then install new wallpaper.
There's a lot.
We have in our area one reallygood person at it and that's all
she does and that's all shefocuses on, and she is the go-to
wallpaper person and she staysbooked out and stays busy
(02:31):
because she's really good at it.
That's wallpaper.
I do not like wallpaper.
I know a lot of you may do it,but I'm telling you it's so easy
especially now with thepatterns and everything to mess
up.
That's that.
And then the other one I putafter that was decorative
painting, right, murals and whatthey would say is an artist's
(02:54):
touch.
So some people want like, onour building, we might have
somebody come out and paint amural, we might have somebody
out to do some sort of artisticeven writing on the wall these
days is prevalent Making theseimpact statements on the wall as
a business owner, as a leader,having written word on your wall
in your business is big.
(03:16):
There's people who hand dothese things and that are
artists that actually paint andthat's what they focus on.
They pick these individualthings.
These are all things you can doas an individual contractor and
specialize in.
Now, those are also things thatyou can grow beyond being an
individual contractor andspecialized in.
(03:37):
And then, continuing with theniche side, you can also look at
just painting residential homesand you can.
Realistically, you can alsolook at just painting
residential homes and you can.
Realistically, you can.
There are so many avenues to godown just in residential
painting.
For instance, around here wehave a one of the large
production builders that we callthem track.
(03:59):
They build these track homesand they really need painters
who are production painters.
They go in.
We say blow and go and thatmeans that they're going to go
in at a certain price per squarefoot and they're going to knock
that thing out and move to thenext.
Now those aren't your high-end,high-quality finish homes that
take a lot of specialization.
(04:20):
Those are I can paint the walls, ceilings and get out of their
type of homes.
Same thing on the exterior andthey are mass produced and they
are.
There are painters who havecrews that just do that and they
build their.
They build their businessaround that.
There's nothing wrong with that.
In residential, besides doingthe high volume production type
(04:43):
of painting, there is the highend homes, the quality homes,
and that is a specific nichebecause as a painter, you can do
one home and make enough moneyoff of that one home as compared
to doing 10 of the productionstyle homes.
It really is about quality,what you use and how you do it.
But that's a specific niche toois staying in these high-end
(05:09):
homes, high-end neighborhoodswith tons of custom interior
trim work and the expectationand detail is very specific and
those houses you've got to takeyour time, do quality work and
those aren't rush jobs.
The clients are paying a lot ofmoney for that custom detail
(05:30):
and that level of attention, andthat's why focusing on the
high-end custom homes is a Iwould classify it as its own
thing.
Not that you can't do both, butit is very hard to build
systems and employees and thingsand be able to accommodate both
.
That's why I say that youpainters out there may disagree.
(05:52):
You may have different reasonswhy you disagree, so let me hear
it.
That's fine, that's somethingthat I'm open for discussion on,
because it is important tounderstand the differences in
production and quality.
As far as a painting goes, allright, that was all number one.
Oh, and I don't want to leavethis off.
(06:13):
But brick painting, germansmear that is a specialty in
itself and some people I knowagain, there's a local guy here
that's all he really does isthat whitewash, that German
smear, that water wash, the limewash, whatever you want to call
it.
Here we call it German smear,but that gives the house a
(06:33):
little bit different detail andthat is a specialty and there is
a process to that.
Again, that goes back to beingable to know what you're going
to get into, how to do it,specialize in it and become
known for it, and you're goingto have tons of work because
once you pick that nicheespecially a niche that's not
(06:53):
popular, that is rare as far asbeing able to have the talent to
do it right and you become thego-to on that, you are
definitely going to be able togrow your business as you become
known.
Number one was specialize inniches.
Number two is invest in highquality tools and supply.
I could go on and on aboutinvesting in high quality tools
(07:14):
and supplies and how thatimpacts you as a contractor and
how that increases your revenue,because tools every ever it
seems like every week they arecoming out.
These tool manufacturers arecoming out with better tools,
higher end tools, tools thathelp produce faster results and
(07:39):
with less labor intensive,things like these sprayers and
these, the different types ofpaints that you can do onsite.
You don't have to take everydoor off.
You can do it right there inthe kitchen.
You just have to mask upproperly, but being able to.
At first you may not be able toafford some of those higher end
tools, but as you, as you growand as you get money and as you
(08:04):
get more work, investing in yourtools is critical because you
want to the the output that youcan perform with higher end
tools is just different.
The results are better, I know,and as far as on the carpentry
side, the saws you use matterand and the tools you use matter
as it as it pertains to theresults of how that trim
(08:26):
carpentry look.
It's the same thing with paint.
What tools, the quality oftools, the, the money that you
put into taking care of andinvesting in your tools that
type of stuff will help you andit makes you look more
professional.
When you show up with theproper tools to do the job, they
know they're gonna take youserious because they can see
(08:46):
that you're investing in yourcraft, you're investing in your
tools, you're investing in yourwork and you're investing in
your business by getting goodtools and upgrading to better
tools in the future.
So that was number two investin quality tools and supplies.
Number three offercomprehensive services.
This goes back to.
(09:08):
We talked about specializing asan individual contractor.
As you grow and you get morepeople on your team, they may
specialize in different areasthan you.
They may qualify as a painterright, they know how to paint.
They've been doing it for years.
Know how to paint They've beendoing it for years, but just
like anybody else, they hone inon a very specific part of their
(09:29):
passion.
What they're passionate aboutand what they do is that you
might be very, very, very goodat cabinets and you may hire
somebody who can paint that'svery, very, very good at doors,
or very good at residentialpainting.
Now you've got residentialpainting and you've got cabinets
, so you're offering both andthen, once you move past that,
(09:52):
you may have somebody who knowshow to do a little bit of
drywall.
Now I wouldn't say go andbecome a massive drywall company
, but patches and repairs aresomething that a painter can
make their way on and gain alittle bit of work by doing that
.
If you're doing the patch,repair, the paint and then
you're doing the cabinets, nowyou're just continuing to add to
(10:14):
your portfolio.
And now we move into Shop Talk.
It's the portion of the showwhere I bring in a co-host and
we cover trending topics in homebuilding and remodeling.
Hope you enjoy.
Let's go.
When he mentions that, hementions it with the purpose of
letting me know that the homesthey were doing were one, two,
(10:37):
three up to $10 million homes.
Speaker 3 (10:39):
Yeah, they were not spec homes.
I learned how to do that withsome of the best painters in the
area old school painters.
We used to have competitions onwho could cut the straightest
line and who could get done witha room.
I love that.
I just don't see that anymore.
Yeah, you don't see thatcompetition and that drive and
building those relationships anda team atmosphere, and so
(10:59):
that's what I shoot for isbuilding that culture of so how
can we improve?
So starting so, how old wereyou when you, when you got into
paint?
So that when I haven't hit,that must've been.
I see 97, 98, 97.
Speaker 1 (11:15):
Okay, 20.
That's dang, you're gettingthere.
I was 27 years ago, yeah, 20.
Speaker 3 (11:20):
dang, you're getting there.
That's 27 years ago, yeah, 20.
Speaker 1 (11:22):
so I'm 44 now, so a little over 20 years gotcha okay
, you know people talk about andand I'm glad you said custom
homes and it's not a spec home,because what we've run across
sometimes too, is you have thismentality and it and it's very
prevalent in paint, where youknow you large production
builders, track home builders,whatever you call them, where
(11:45):
you're from, and it's calledblow and go.
Yep, right, can you talk to meabout the proper way to say it
is production painting.
Yeah, okay, talk to me about aproduction painting and nothing,
again, nothing wrong with that,because the spec builders, for
the budget that they're wantingto build these houses, are
paying a lower every avenue.
(12:05):
That's right.
All right, talk to me aboutproduction painters.
What is that mindset and whereyou differentiate yourself from
the?
Speaker 3 (12:15):
production mindset.
So a production mindset iscoming in and you're getting
from start to finish of that jobas fast as possible because
you're on a very low budget.
Yeah, very low budget.
Your painters are not highquality painters, they're not
bad.
And that's the first question Iask.
When I hire somebody that'stold me they've been painting
for 20 years, my first questionis what have you been painting
(12:36):
for 20 years?
Because if you've been paintingapartments or you've been
painting spec houses, you maynot fit into what we do.
That's right.
Speaker 1 (12:43):
Because it's a speed versus quality.
That's right.
And you know, I've run into itwith the people we hire
sometimes here.
They aren't used to Mondaythrough Friday atmosphere taking
time and making sure the workthey are go, go, go, go go.
Yeah, and sometimes I don'thave 50, 60, 70 hours to give
(13:07):
them every week and they'regreat at what they do.
But it's a production mentalityand construction that is.
We've got to finish this asfast as possible because the
check is sitting in our facewhen the project is done.
And then it's more rightBecause you're like well,
production's the way to go,because you know XYZ is building
(13:27):
150 homes.
I want 150 homes.
But what they're not realizingis you have to make a sacrifice
to do that.
That's right.
You're on their dime, theirschedule and guess what, when
they're tired of you notperforming, they can let you go
when you control your destiny.
You don't have to do 150 homes.
(13:48):
You can do less than a third ofthat and make the same money
because of what you charge andthe quality of work that you put
out.
That's right, Right.
And you have more in yourrepertoire.
You put out, that's right,Right, and you have more in your
repertoire.
So do you got and I don't knowanymore?
Do you mess with cabinets, trimcustom?
I mean any of that type ofstuff, or talk to me about what
(14:08):
you're focused on.
Speaker 3 (14:09):
So our DBA is Cyclops , painting and Coatings, because
we coat a lot of stuff.
I don't mess with furniture,small items like that.
We will do cabinets.
It's not one of our main thingsthat we do, but we do
everything from a newconstruction home to a
commercial building.
Two months ago we weresandblasting an 11,000 square
foot metal building Sandblastingand then two coating with the
(14:32):
macro epoxy and I want to deepdive a little bit here.
Speaker 1 (14:36):
When you because you're the business owner one of
the things that, when they'redoing this production mentality
are you still looking at a priceper square foot on your
estimates?
I won't get into specific costs, but is that how you do that?
And I know in production sideor spec home side, it's a floor
square foot, yeah.
Speaker 3 (14:56):
No, so we break it down per house, per trim package
.
I can estimate closely by asquare foot price per floor,
sure, but when you get in thesecustom houses that we do, the
trim packages are all different.
You walk into a room and yougot a 20-foot ceiling.
There you go, a covered ceiling, stained trim or stained doors,
or you know Even the size ofthe door.
(15:16):
So how would you give a squarefoot?
Speaker 1 (15:19):
price for that, right ?
What's your recommendationthere for the beginner, right?
We do this show so people whocan they can learn how to do
things, they can learn how to dobusiness.
So for the beginners out therewho's just starting out just
listening to this, because I'vegot you on here talking about
being a paint contractor andrunning a business so what's
(15:41):
your advice when it comes toestimating as far as how to do
it?
So you're saying price persquare foot.
Because you've been doing itfor so long, you can roughly
come up with a number, but thebest practice, the best way to
do it is so I'm actually havingto learn that right now myself
because I just do it.
Speaker 3 (16:00):
I've been in it for so long, but I'm hiring
production managers and I'mstarting to hire sales teams and
to figure out how to get it outof here on to training somebody
else, we are doing the samething.
Speaker 1 (16:13):
And what people don't realize and this is what I
explained to our team is if I'mpaying you, let's just say,
$1,000 a week, and I charge aper square foot number, how do I
know A that you're going to getdone in the time allotted,
(16:33):
right, and that it's going tocost $1,000.
You can't do that.
You can't have.
You know what I mean.
So there has to be a legit wayfor you to break down your price
, to make sure your payroll andcompensation, all that is
covered, and that is somethingthat we have evolved and changed
over time to where Over time,and it's experience.
Speaker 3 (16:53):
That's really where that comes from.
You can look up all kinds ofprograms to try to make this
easier, to bid, and I've usedsome of those just to see if I
could make it easier, and thenI'll look at the price and I'm
like there's no way.
There's no way it works, we'vedone that too, we can do it.
Speaker 1 (17:07):
We've done the same thing where a lot of times, and
especially on the home buildingside, people will come to us
with internet plans, we alwaysrecommend our guy.
They show him the plans andhe'll modify them and make
changes and rewrite the plans.
But what?
Sometimes what they'll do isthey'll pay.
You can pay for a cost report,that's right.
(17:28):
Okay, I did that and almostlost my mind.
I was like hey, where?
Because they tell you to put inyour zip code and I just could
not believe the numbers and Iwas like this doesn't make sense
.
Yeah, it was the one I did.
I did too, actually, and bothof them were no less than 50 to
a hundred thousand dollars on upand and.
(17:50):
And it blew my mind because theproblem with that is the client
is sometimes running thatreport.
Speaker 3 (17:57):
Yeah, and then they're like they can easily
look that up online.
And then they're like well, whyis your price so different?
Yes, and you have to sit thereand break all that stuff down to
them.
That's right.
Speaker 1 (18:05):
And you know what you get, what you pay for in our
industry and time and quality.
All of that stuff you should.
You don't have to take it tothe highest levels, but you have
to make what's right for youand your company and your
employees.
And the client should be, youknow, looking at what type of
company you run, how long you'vebeen in business and these
(18:27):
types of things.
Do you have employees, do youtake care of them?
And that's how you have to getpaid.
Each contractor is different.
Some will have a price persquare foot and that'll suffice
for them, some, you know.
Some will have a breakdownchart and some will have.
It's just different all overthe board.
Speaker 3 (18:44):
There's no blueprint specifically for everybody.
That's not.
Everybody's business costsdifferent to make it and
everybody's production teams aredifferent than that.
So you have to do.
Speaker 1 (18:53):
If you're out there in the beginning stages, you
have to do what's best for youand what you know at first.
And then, as you grow, that'swhere it starts to change.
Your estimate changes andevolves and you're like well,
now I've got two and threepeople, I can't do it for this
cost.
So that's where you know thedifference comes and you start
to learn how to estimate.
(19:14):
But then, moving fromestimating to the prep for
painting or a paint job, how doyou prepare the client for,
especially if you're doinginterior and it's a larger job?
You're going to be there for awhile, so do you?
Speaker 3 (19:32):
talk to the client about those things.
Is that a part of your process?
Communication is key inanything that we do.
We like the customer not tohave, or to have as few
surprises as possible once wecome in Gotcha what area we're
going to be working in in thehouse, if we can cordon off a
section of it to keep them stillliving in the house, you know
then.
We just work on differentsections and we let them know
(19:53):
each day where we're going to beat the next day.
We clean up our mess every daybefore we leave there.
Speaker 1 (20:04):
That way they're not tripping, or if they've got
small children.
Now we're going to move intothe portion of the show where we
talk interior design.
We're going to bring in aninterior designer and we're
going to talk trending designand products.
Hope you enjoy, let's go.
But where?
How can we talk to the clientand them, not hold us liable?
(20:25):
Because that's what's happening, right?
That's what the painter said.
Speaker 2 (20:28):
I would encourage in that situation, for even with
the ones that we've done paintconsults with that they need to.
You can Google those images,you can see those colors.
You can Google those images,you can see those colors the
images.
You can see them.
Instagram is a great way to dothat.
I'm not as familiar withFacebook, but you can hashtag
(20:49):
that paint color and it showsyou all those images and we've
tagged, we've tagged.
Speaker 1 (20:54):
You've done some stuff where we've tagged
Sherwin-Williams in differentcolors that they're using.
But where do you get thatinformation from?
As a designer, you continuallytell me what's not trending and
what is Gray is out.
But like, where does thatinformation come from?
Speaker 2 (21:12):
Well, you're currently working with whatever
they want to keep theirfurniture, then you have to
consider that.
You have to consider theirlight.
I think it's just I was ateenager and painting every wall
in my bedroom.
A lot of that's just trial anderror and experience.
Speaker 1 (21:31):
Well, see, and that's the part I think you hit on is
the experience factor, is thefact that you have experience in
this.
And when you're doing a colorconsult, it's not just something
general.
You're fact finding, you'reasking questions, you're looking
at what's there.
Then, when we're doing like aremodel, you're taking into
(21:53):
consideration what we're goingto put there, because
potentially you're helping themmake those selections along the
way.
Does that all fit into thecolor scheme?
Because typically we do the thepainting at the end of a
project.
We really want everything doneand then we send the painters in
and they do their thing.
And so you were saying that thethe painter is not necessarily
(22:19):
the best at saying I guess notwhat's trendy, but like if this
will look good with something.
Speaker 2 (22:24):
They can have an opinion about it.
But I think what thisparticular painter I was talking
to this morning is trying tosteer away from is the liability
basically that comes with theiropinion, because they're ending
up having to go back and fix orcorrect something that they
suggested.
Sadly, and when you're comingin as a paint console
(22:48):
professional or a designer, whenyou actually have that title
with your name, I feel, likethere's automatically some trust
with that in your opinion.
I?
Speaker 3 (22:57):
agree.
Speaker 2 (22:58):
And then if you're able to show them some work in
that color, that you've done alot of things that throw.
Well, the biggest thing thatthrows someone off is the sheens
.
They're just really confusedwhen they're like oh I didn't
know.
Speaker 1 (23:11):
So sometimes it's also not just the visual part,
but it's having the knowledge ofthe product.
Thanks for joining us today.
As always, we are grateful forour listeners and your continued
support.
Please subscribe to our YouTubechannel.
Follow us on social media viaFacebook, instagram and TikTok.
Get more info at our website,wwwthehomebuildingshowcom.
(23:38):
And, as always, remember who weare the Home Building and
Remodeling Show.
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