#111: Breaking Free: From Teaching to Unschooling

What if everything your child needs for academic success could be learned during their high school years, and everything before that could just be play?

Katie from Illinois, a former teacher with a master's degree in gifted education, reveals how her perspective on education transformed when she began homeschooling her three young children. Witnessing her oldest child write perfectly formed letters without any formal instruction became her lightbulb moment – children naturally learn without our intervention.

Breaking free from the politics and constraints of traditional teaching wasn't easy. Katie candidly shares her journey from trying to replicate school at home to embracing unschooling, where learning flows from her children's natural curiosities. "I've instructed them with nothing and they're spitting out knowledge," she explains, challenging the notion that parents need teaching credentials to effectively educate their children.

Most refreshingly, Katie dismantles the myth that homeschooling must look Instagram-worthy. She admits to days with too much screen time, moments of frustration, and plenty of mess – yet reminds us that children are still thriving compared to institutional alternatives. "They were fed without chemicals, they were not privy to any shelter-in-place drills, they got fresh air, they were loved, and they were not in combat training – that's enough."

Whether you're considering homeschooling, already deep in the journey, or simply curious about alternative education approaches, this conversation will challenge conventional wisdom about how and when children truly learn.

Curriculum: More before 5 in a Row

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What is the most important thing we can teach our kids?
HOW TO HANDLE AN EMERGENCY!
This could mean life or death in some cases!
Help a child you know navigate how to handle an emergency situation with ease:
Let's Talk, Emergencies! -and don't forget The Activity Book!

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:06):
Welcome to this week's episode of the Homeschool
How-To.
I'm Cheryl and I invite you tojoin me on my quest to find out
why are people homeschooling,how do you do it, how does it
differ from region to region?
And should I homeschool my kids?
Stick with me as I interviewhomeschooling families across
the country to unfold theanswers to each of these

(00:26):
questions week by week.
Welcome, and with me tonight Ihave Katie from Illinois.
She is a former teacher andunschooling, homeschooled mom.
Katie, thank you so much forjoining me tonight.
Hi, cheryl, so happy to be here, I say tonight, but that's

(00:46):
because I'm getting.
I'm getting ready for these tobe live interviews here and I
had to move our our interviewfrom the afternoon to the
evening.
So this is exciting for me.
We kind of went back and fortha little bit.
You had heard me on the SamTripoli's tinfoil hat podcast,
which was like a year and a halfago now.
So that's cool.

(01:07):
What made you even reach out tome to begin with?

Speaker 2 (01:11):
Well, you know, so I have been.
I'll give a short version.
Our dishwasher broke and Ihadn't been a big podcaster and
so I had tons of dishes to doevery night.
And I found Sam Tripoli'spodcast and'm I'm a big tinfoil
hat girl and you were on it.
And so when you kind of threwthe question out of I want to
homeschool my kids, if anyone'slistening, I'm having a really

(01:33):
hard time teaching history, orlike thinking about teaching the
history to my kids, when I'mstarting to believe most of
history is false.
And so I emailed you saying, asa retired or former teacher
pull them out now.
You know too much, take themout.
And then you're I.
I switched over from Sam'spodcast and pretty much every

(01:56):
night after that startedlistening to yours.
Thank you, yeah, it's been veryenjoyable, and I myself have
kind of just discovered thatthere was a word for what I was
doing.
I really didn't knowunschooling was a term and you
know I was kind of like breakingmy own back of wanting to fit
my teacher mode into myhomeschool life, and I have

(02:20):
three young kids, so I wasn'treally even ingrained in needing
to do it.
I have right now I have a two,four and six year old.
So at the time, you know, myoldest was only four and a half
five years old.
So I just had already figuredout that natural learning occurs
without any instruction andwhat I was thinking I was doing

(02:41):
so much of as a teacher was waytoo much at all.
And so I think I was in thisplace of I'm a stay-at-home mom.
I wanted to be a stay-at-homemom my whole life, and yet I
thought I wasn't going to beable to homeschool, because you
cannot be a stay-at-home mom andan actual curriculum teaching
mom at this little, at theirlittle age.

(03:02):
Right, I think eventually I'llget somewhere where we maybe tap
into curriculum, but I keptfeeling like I'm not doing it
right, I'm failing at both.
And yet every day my childrenwere showing me I've instructed
them with nothing and they'respitting out knowledge, and so
that was kind of, you know,hearing, hearing what you had to

(03:23):
say, and then hearing lots morepeople come on your show.
I was like wow, there's a termfor this, right, like we really
don't.
I had already bought somecurriculums.
I had, you know, I taughtsummer school programs.
I ran a summer camp, you know,hired teachers, you know,
recruited children like I have abig background in.
You know, my degree is specialed, elementary ed and then I got

(03:47):
a master's in gifted ed.
So if, like you know, you'rethinking of, you know, spectrum
of children, I've got it all andI had to stop pushing myself of
.
You know, I tried, I tried toprint the pretty pictures and
want to get things organized.
And you know we just start inthe red every day.
The house isn't clean, thekitchen.
Take.
You know we just start in thered every day.

(04:08):
The house isn't clean, thekitchen.
Take.
You know breakfast takes toolong, whatever it is, and I just
kept realizing like I've donenothing but talk and sing and
drive in the car with my kids,parks and nature and they are
learning without any instruction.
So yeah, it was a gift hearingyou on his show.

Speaker 1 (04:28):
Well, thank you, that means so much, so so all right
how long had you been a teacher?

Speaker 2 (04:30):
so?
I had been a teacher for almostnine years, never anywhere
consistently, so I had multipledifferent titles and districts.

Speaker 1 (04:40):
Experiences, bosses what made you decide that you
didn't want your kids going intothe public school system?

Speaker 2 (04:47):
You know what?
It's funny Before I had kids ofmy own, I knew that I wasn't
going to be able to Teaching washard for me, the politics of
teaching, right.
So I was a young teacher in aschool full of almost many
tenured teachers, teachers andyou're just fighting to get to
the top and like get a safeplace of you know being able to

(05:08):
teach the same grade the nextyear and build you know a
classroom on experience, insteadof, oh, this year you're second
grade, well, next year you'resixth grade.
And it was a struggle.
So I kind of already knew thatI would never be able to be a
good teacher and a good mom, andI had always wanted to be a mom
, a stay at home mom at that.
And I would say that my lasttwo years in I was in a two year

(05:30):
contract and I had a verypolitical issue go on and I had
to hire a school appointedlawyer.
You know I'm kind of one thatspeaks out against things that
might not be going along thegrain and it didn't work out
well for me.
So I actually had to like fightto keep my job and then at the

(05:51):
end of that contract I justthought I'm definitely not going
to work.
In this district I found afamily and we had just bought a
house.
I had no kids yet.
And I found a family, apediatrician, who had just had
her third baby.
It was a gift, but she had a 10year old, a five year old and a
now three month old and she didnot want to backtrack what she

(06:13):
had built and so she hired me atmy teacher salary right up the
road and was willing to take meon if I had kids in the future,
and just seemed to be a perfectfit.
So I kind of became a nanny,professional nanny, which was
awesome.
And then I knew right fromthere I was never going back
into the schools.

Speaker 1 (06:39):
All right.
So you know, I never thoughtabout what you mentioned with
the politics of first yearteaching like a second grade
class, and then you don't evenknow what you're teaching the
next year.
They kind of tell you, okay,well, now you're in six, that I
and I've heard my friends thatare teachers talk about that.
In fact the other day we wereat a birthday party and the girl
was saying, oh yeah, I doeighth grade right now, but I
think a spot's opening up fornine, so I might.
But that is really aninteresting thing.

(06:59):
When we think about, like, howqualified these teachers are,
it's like, okay, just cause youare have been teaching second
grade for 10 years now, but theymight.
You might have someone teachingit for the first time who's
used to teaching a differentgrade, who might be resentful
that they got moved to thisgrade.
You know that's so interestingit's.
It's not like we're sending ourkids to school with a teacher

(07:23):
that wanted to do that job inparticular.
Yeah, they're going to spendeight hours with somebody who
may have just gotten placedthere because they were the
bottom of the chain.
So I never thought about thatpart before.
That's big and all right.
So I love, like, like you weretalking about how the
unschooling just it happensnaturally because we do it when

(07:44):
they're born, like, do they knowhow to eat?
Do they know how to tie theirshoe, do they?
They don't know how to go tothe bathroom on a toilet.
We teach them all of that, sowhy do we think that we can't
teach them some math or you know?
Like you said, there arecurriculums.
If you want to use curriculumfor certain things that you
don't know, you can.

(08:04):
It's right there.
You're just kind of being theliaison for it or guiding them.
It is so funny that how, how doyou look at it?
From what teachers are toldthey have to teach in school,
and then what's actuallynecessary, like you mentioned
before, that the schools demandso much from these kids or or
teach way more than necessary.

(08:26):
Why do you think that is, andare there any examples?

Speaker 2 (08:29):
Yeah, and I think it falls both ways.
It demands a lot of the kids,and the demands on the teachers
take away from what they canreally walk in and give their
best at too.
They're not shutting down andpaying attention to their family
or feeding their own interest.
It's a pretty much seven day aweek job for the teachers as
well, and most of what we'redoing in school is and really

(08:51):
this was also, you know when youasked like how did you know you
weren't going to stay?
in it when I grew up wanting tobe a teacher my second grade
teachers.
That's why you want to be ateacher, because you have these
memorable teachers, right, youdid all these fun days and
things.
I don't remember those hardtest days, as this is why I want
to be a teacher.
I remember the fun days and youknow, when I became a teacher

(09:13):
in 2013, 2015,.
None of that was available.
Johnny Appleseed day you can'ttake a day and make applesauce
anymore.
You know, none of those funmoments were there for me to
like, really feed my soul.
It was all really to teach forthe test, right?
Your job was dependent if yourstudents were showing these test

(09:33):
scores and if they weren't,right.
So what we're teaching inschool is nothing about what you
want to teach in life and whatyou want to do, especially as a
stay-at-home mom, right?
So as a stay-at-home mom, mostof your life in those little
years are cuddling and snugglingand reading, and you know you
don't have that type of time.
If you're also trying to forcethis three-year-old to trace

(09:57):
these letters and do it rightthe next day and thinking you
have to do that because that'swhat they're doing in the
three-year-old preschool room,right, in order.
They're only doing that inthree-year-old preschool to help
that kindergarten teacher thatwill have to merge the gaps.
Yeah, a lot of it goes againstwhat you feel as a mom.

(10:20):
You know when and I say thisall the time to people I think
every school teacher, thereshould be one requirement and
you should be a mom, you knowwhen and I say this all the time
to people I think every schoolteacher, there should be one
requirement and you should be amom before you can be a teacher.
The teacher I would be today,knowing what I know, how I would
be able to approach the parents.
Everything was veryintimidating to me until I had
my own kids.
And now I could, if I could goback and talk to some of those

(10:43):
parents and change the pressurethey felt.
And you know, because being inand I then had to sit in these

(11:06):
meetings, you know as a leaderof the meeting, and take 10
teachers in one room and theparents they basically it was
you know, 10 teachers tellingthe parents like your child
struggles here and English isnot their strong suit, and you
know we might have to drop themfrom Latin because they need
more time for the history classand it was just bad news all

(11:29):
over because this child with ahigh IQ.
This school was one of the bestplaces I've ever been.
It's changed a lot since COVIDand new principals and things,
but what it was founded on wastruly a private-based homeschool
, in my opinion.
When I was brought in, it waschild-led learning.
All teachers got to do what wasbest for each child.

(11:51):
And then, you know, like I said, when my boss got fired and I
was put in her position, itturned into all these children
had to start aligning to abigger picture of the school
instead of individualizedlearning.
So in that position, I juststarted realizing, like with
parent-teacher conferences, Idon't want to be the bad news
giver and helping these parentstake anything away.

(12:14):
I just started speaking abouttheir child's character.
Right, like, it's okay, they'restruggling with their reading.
Yeah, we know they're dyslexic.
Of course they're going tostruggle.
They might not get it.
You know, and I didn't havethis parenting mindset, this
homeschooling mindset I had this.
I'm terrified to tell theseparents, who are twice my age,
this horrible news about theirkid, that they're paying gobsons

(12:35):
of money, you know, for theirkid to be there in the first
place.
And so I just kept focusing onthe characteristics.
You know they're struggling inreading, but what they just did
on the playground with you know,a little boy who didn't have a
friend, I saw it, you know.
And they bring in.
You know they come in and theyare like sunshine in the morning
.
They're so happy and you justspeak to their character.

(12:55):
So now you know, I think you youas someone with a background in
teaching you get told, I gettold a lot.
Oh well, you're a teacher.
Of course you can homeschool,and I am so far from that
teacher.
I am so far from what I wasforced to do in the classroom
and who I am as a homeschoolingmom.
So it's a poor misconception,right, and I think that's the

(13:19):
perception that a lot I hope Ican give some more people is you
don't have to be a teacher, youdon't have to have a background
in anything.
You have to love your kid andwant to be around them, right?
So it is built for everyone todo it.
It's okay if you cannot spendthis amount of time with your
children, right, it is a verydifficult thing to do.

(13:41):
It's so rewarding and you knowthere's so many good things that
come out of it, obviously, butI never want it to come across
that, just because I'm a teacher, we're succeeding.
I am teaching nothing and weare succeeding.

Speaker 1 (13:55):
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Tuttle Twins curriculum becauseit's not just for them.
I'm learning so much rightalongside them.
What I love is how engaging itis for kids.
They take real world conceptsand weave them into stories that
kids can actually understandand relate to.
Whether it's US history,critical thinking or even the
Tuttle Twins Guide to TrueConspiracies, it's all presented

(14:17):
in a way that sticks.
I especially love learningabout government, because I
never learned this stuff inschool how the government is
supposed to work versus how itactually works and it's so cool
that I get to have theseconversations with my son about
it and he gets it.
They've got books for toddlers,a fantastic series for ages
five through 11, and so muchmore.
They even have a Tuttle TwinsAcademy.
I can't wait to get started onthat, because they have classes

(14:40):
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Trust me, you'll love whatyou're going to learn, because
they never taught this to you inschool.
Yeah, it is a mindset, andbefore I started on actually

(15:04):
homeschooling, to me it was likeoh my God, it sounds like so
much planning and I don't seemyself on Sunday nights like
sitting there and seeing whatlessons we're going to go
through during the week and whatcrafts I have to get and am I
going to have to do crafts?
I didn't really like doingcrafts in school.
I it was just, you know, like awaste of time to me.
But you know I like dreaded allof that.

(15:25):
And now that we're in it andyou know we started, just like
most people do, you kind ofreplicate school at home and
okay, here's our curriculum andthis is what time you got to
wake up and we're going to startat first and right after
breakfast and this and that, andthen you know obviously your
butt heads and you argue and youdon't think this is not for me.
I'm going to send them back toschool.
But I think hopefully everybodygets to that point that you're

(15:48):
talking about, where you realize, oh, it's in everything we do.
And yeah, you can throw in acurriculum if you want to work
specifically on phonics andbreaking up words and the sounds
and stuff.
But it doesn't have to looklike them sitting at a table and
doing worksheets on it either.
It can be, just as you're inthe car.

(16:09):
Hey, if I say cat, can you pickout the middle sound?
And so they don't even reallyknow.
Or maybe you're on a naturewalk or you know.
It's like in what you're doing,not regimented, where like we're
sitting at the table and thisis what we're doing and it
sounds like, oh my God, howwould I ever remember to say
what's the middle part of cat ifI'm just driving?

(16:30):
But you'll realize it juststarts coming more naturally to
you.
Like everything your child asksyou could lead into a week long
study about that thing, like ifyou wanted to, right, and
that's kind of what unschoolingis.
You just let the child leadwith what's curious to them and
you know, after a five minutevideo on it they might be like,

(16:52):
okay, now I don't need to knowwhere what else snow, you know
where else it came from.
Like I'm good, but it mightspark something else.
Where they then ask anotherquestion.
And then you're taking outbooks from the library, watching
a documentary, pulling upvideos on youtube and just
having discussion.
I think.
I think we don't put enoughemphasis on just discussion with

(17:13):
our kids and conversation.
It's that's something you don'tget in school.
Really, it's a teacher talkingat them and telling them this is
how it is.
It's not really that.
And in the classes that I feellike we did have we were
supposed to have discussion in,you're intimidated because it's
30 kids and you don't want to.
There's a couple of thestudents that wanted to talk and

(17:34):
they did, but they alwayssounded really smart, and so the
normal people like me, it'sjust.
You know, read Goosebumps books.
I didn't speak up, so it wasn'tthis conversation happening.
And then they busy society somuch, like off to work, come
back, put something on the table, get the homework done, shower,
get into bed, do it all again.

(17:54):
You're really missing out onthe discussion, and I do find
that that is a lot of just wherethe learning comes from in our
day.
Something just as simple as Idon't know what were we talking
about earlier.
I don't know, but just justwhen was that created?
When was that invented?
You know?
Right, okay, that could takeyou on a whole journey.

Speaker 2 (18:16):
Yeah, and I think you know when you like I said when
I heard you talking on Sam'sshow and I was like wow,
unschooling there's a term fornot schooling.
You know, I mean I had kind ofjust naturally fallen into this
rhythm of I know we're learning,right.
So here, here was my light bulbmoment.
I've never taught my oldest athing.
We had a really great neighborright across the street, she was

(18:37):
, so my oldest didn't speakuntil he was almost three and a
half.
I mean, he was barely puttingthree words together and
everyone you know knew that,like if he was in the system, he
would have been labeled asspeech delayed.
I was never concerned with itbecause he was able to get what
he wanted, right, he wascommunicating, but he just it
was a delay and so he was notbeing taught anything I know, up

(18:59):
until he showed me what he wasable to do, and he was just
about three and a half.
He had asked me for theneighbor's name and I wrote her
name on our board, and he took abig cardboard box.
He had wrapped something in it.
So he was already like tapingand tinkering and you know he
was fully independent in hiscreative abilities and he looked

(19:19):
at the word wrote the lettersperfectly.
And I was like, wrote theletters perfectly?
And I was like what the heck?
He wrote letters, you know, Imean that to me was eye opening
and so once I like, I said Iheard that there was a term for
it and you know there's a lot ofpressure of feeling like you're
at home and if you're notproducing something also for,
like my husband, who reallydidn't understand, what did you

(19:42):
do today?
You know, and that's hard toconvince him that it's happening
until he's seeing it himself,right, and there's not a lot of
moments that he's seeing.
So I started to kind of leavethe learning till the end of the
day, or where he'd be walkingin on something, or like at the
dinner table I would play theword games we play and he would

(20:05):
then catch on and try.
You know, 20 questions describean animal, give a couple clues
and he would start guessing it,and you know that's deductive
reasoning to be able to putthings together.
So, without even telling myhusband what he's doing, he's
seeing that my son was justprogressing Right and it was
just game based.
So that was that's what reallystarted me on the.

(20:27):
I want.
I'm a type A, right, and Idon't know if anybody else can
agree with this, but motherhoodwill, if you're a type A, break
yourself before kids, becausemotherhood will break you into a
type B that you're going tothank yourself later for.
But it's a hard process to getthere.
I look at a lot of type B momsand I'm like it's a gift,
treasure, that gift right, thatyou're so laid back and you can

(20:52):
sit down at a table withliterally a mess all around you
and still talk.
That took me a long time to getthere, to let the toys stay on
the floor and think that you canplay a game in the other room.
You know that it was very hardfor me.

Speaker 1 (21:06):
Yeah, I'm sure if I could take a video of my house
right now.

Speaker 2 (21:10):
I know yeah, and no one would believe it Right Like
it's.
So it's been a process of alsolike convincing people that
without doing anything, they'regetting there Right.
And then you have more kids andthen they obviously learn
quicker.
And so, after I had my secondand now my third, they're all
like oh okay, she's doing fine,right, they're all talking and

(21:31):
they're all writing Right.
But like until you get somebodyto buy in on, they're seeing it
.
You question yourself is noinstruction really going pan out
?

Speaker 1 (21:42):
yeah, and especially grandparents or cousins.
You know they have your child'sbest interest at heart, but
they're also like you're crazy,you are stepping out of society,
right, what are you doing allday?
But you know, and especiallylike your child and mine are the
same age where my son's notfully reading on his own yet and
most kindergartners are, Ibelieve.

(22:04):
I mean, I, I do think they,yeah, for the most part, are.

Speaker 2 (22:07):
So it's like now, but will they be reading in 20
years?
You know right.

Speaker 1 (22:12):
That's where I'm at, exactly Right, because the love
of reading comes from it, notbeing pressured upon you.
Right?
And just before this, now,don't get me wrong, the screens
are on sometimes too.
And just before this, now,don't get me wrong, the screens
are on sometimes too.
But just before this podcast,my son brought a book over and
said could you read this to me?
So it's like that's what we'relooking for, right?

(22:32):
Like can you read this to me?
Now, sometimes he'll do itbefore bed because he knows
it'll like let him stay up alittle bit longer, but when,
know when, when he's coming overin the middle of the day saying
can you read this to me?
Like that's gold.
Right there, you know you aregiving them the love of story
and that is not put intochildren in school.

(22:54):
I think back to the amount ofstories or books that were read
to me, like maybe if we went tolibrary class which wasn't every
day, and maybe in reading class, but I do not remember a
teacher reading to us every day,reading a book and showing us
the pictures and talking aboutthe story.
It happens sometimes, but notevery day.
So that's so interesting too.

(23:16):
And like I didn't even grow upwith parents reading me books.
So I think that there'sdefinitely this push now with,
like Sarah McKenzie's read aloudrevival and you know different,
you know people on Instagram orwhatever, pushing the
homeschooling that they'resaying like you don't need the
formal instruction as long asyou're reading to your kid and
there's so much more that thatdoes for them anyways, just with

(23:38):
the bonding, and you, you knowthe story there, you know
synapses are firing in theirbrain and it's really awesome.
So okay.
So, as, what kind of regulationsdo you guys have in Illinois?
Cause I'm in New York, so weare pretty strict on what we
have to report and the differentsubjects and like our reporting

(24:00):
looks like.
In the beginning of the year,we say what we intend to do for
the year and then every quarterwe say what has been completed
of that, and there are specific.
It's one of them's reading, oneof them's writing, one of
them's spelling and one ofthem's English.
I'm like you, seriously, peopleyou come on, I know those are
literally you can entwine themall in the same thing.

(24:22):
I are we, you just trying toconfuse people here, and then
there's a few other ones, buthow is the reporting in Illinois
?
Because, as an unschooler, thatcan get tricky.

Speaker 2 (24:34):
Yeah.
So if you were to, if I were tohave to regurgitate verbatim, I
couldn't tell you.
I know I've looked into it andI know it was something along
the lines of make sure you'redoing at least 180 days of
instruction, keeping some typeof proof of that, and I think
it's the basic subjects of, yes,english language arts, so ELA,

(24:57):
math, I'm not sure, but onlybecause I know we're touching on
all of it and the proof is inmy library card, what we've
checked out.
I keep a portfolio of theorganic things that take place
and if I were to say anythingabout someone feeling like they
need to do some sort ofcurriculum, it would be a

(25:17):
curriculum based on reading andnot like reading phonics.
It would be a curriculum basedon read-alouds phonics.
It would be a curriculum basedon read alouds and everything
else falls into that, right.
So that's essentially.
I like to read.
Not everyone does I like toread.
I like to read to kids, I liketo read to myself, so that came
naturally to me.
I've been reading to them since, you know, my son was in my
stomach just knowing what thatcan do, right, but as soon as

(25:40):
you pick up any type ofchildren's chapter book.
Um, so I don't plan things, Idon't know.
I don't look ahead and think,oh, we're going to do this
chapter book and then that one,and then that one.
I just figure out.
You know, like my son wasreally into Indians last year
and so we read Indian in thecupboard and my daughter joined
along just listening to it.
But inside of that now you know, there's your history.

(26:02):
We learned about Indians, welearned about several tribes of
Indians, right, that ties intoeverything, ties into God, by
the way, and so it all, it allintertwines.
We're reading another randomlyfound winter book right now and
it takes place in Paris.
We've never looked into Paris.
I've got a little folder ofwhen we read a book and it has

(26:23):
to do with the country.
We color the map flag, and allthat is is me.
You know we're five chapters inand I'm like, okay, we got to
go to the library this book thisweek.
They've mentioned a few placesin Paris, so we'll get that book
, we'll touch on it.
It doesn't have to be that daywhen we taught.
You know, as a teacher, youthink, oh, we're going to read
this part of the chapter andwe're going to talk about it in
this book.

(26:43):
It doesn't have to be that way.
You will literally findeverything you can teach them
while just enjoying reading withthem.
So there's a program I thinkit's called All About Reading I
think that's what it's calledand I bought it specifically to
just get their book list andit's rich.
It's a rich book list.

(27:04):
It's got a good book.
You know, a good base of like.
Here's seven different ways youcan use this book.
It touches on you know multipledifferent ways you can touch on
subjects.
It's great, but trust yourself,right.
You know exactly where you cango with an interest you know,
and so like I don't, you know Ithink the unschooling method is.
It's also like it doesn't haveto be no curriculum.

(27:25):
It's child interest led.
So like my son is really intotime right now.
So we're just talking clocksout of nowhere, you know, and my
, actually my daughter is reallyinto writing and learning how
to spell and you know being ableto do the phonics.
She is right where mysix-year-old son is.
She's almost four.
She'll be four in a coupleweeks.

(27:46):
So last summer, when I thoughtI'm just going to check if my
five and a half year old knowsall of the letters, sounds and a
few of the you know digraphsand blends, like I just
basically I would draw a letterwith chalk and he'd say the
sound in the letter and then Iwould just check with my
daughter.
She was right on par with himand she had not been instructed

(28:08):
with anything, she had just beenin the background.
So I thought, okay, we're goingto finish summer and then into
winter I am going tolegitimately teach them together
, on pace, together, and she'spicking up the linguistics much
quicker and she's moreinterested in that.
And my son is like, okay, fine,I'll do it, but can I be done
now, you know?

(28:28):
And then she wants to gofurther and he'd rather do time
and talk about numbers.
And so you just follow thatright and don't put pressure on
yourself, because what's the endgoal?
The end goal isn't first grade.
The end goal isn't what can hedo by seven.

(28:48):
I care about what he's going tobe doing at 18.
And a lot of that is lifeskills.
Right now still can learneverything from what I'm finding
out.
You can learn everythingthrough life skills.

Speaker 1 (28:54):
You're so right and it sounds like you have the same
children as I do, except mydaughter's two and my.
So I just don't have thatmiddle child.
But, um, I haven't taught heranything formal.
Now, my son, he did go todaycare.
He went to a private preschoolthat was three days a week for
two and a half hours a day, andI took him out for kindergarten

(29:16):
and first grade and, uh, Ihaven't taught my.
My daughter's never been in adaycare, so she never been to
school.
That girl picks up everything.
They were just playing hide andseek earlier today and she
starts counting and she's likecounting up to 15.
I was like what in the world?
I can only attribute it to missRachel on YouTube, but I never

(29:41):
did any of that with her.
So it's so funny that a twoyear old can say and like no,
the context.
I have to stand here with myhands over my eyes and count to
15 and then go look for him.
So I've never taught her thateither.
So you're right, and I nevertaught her to talk.
And she has.
She comes out out.
She surprises everybody whenshe actually does open her mouth

(30:03):
to speak.
They're always caught off guardlike whoa, I didn't know she
could even talk because she'skind of miserable looking.
But when she does, she comesout with these full sentences,
perfect grammar.
Where my son we did a lot ofspeech therapy because he had
lisps and we fixed all of thatalso.
I don't talk about that nearlyenough and I should because I

(30:23):
fought with the school to try toget them in to get the right
speech therapist and this andthat and it was a whole thing
and I was like you know what?
Let me contact anyone.
I know who's a speech therapist.
They can recommend whatever tome a person or a YouTube video.
They did that.
I've watched YouTube videos.
I worked with my son on theexercises and he doesn't have a
speech issue now.
Like it's insane, it tookYouTube videos and then just

(30:48):
every day saying okay, get thelittle pom pom and let's blow it
across the table with a straw,let's touch our tongue to our
you know roof of our mouth andthen over to our right cheek and
over to our left cheek and likejust doing that every day for I
don't know, six months a year,it probably wasn't every day, it
was probably three times a week.
But I mean we can do this stuffas parents.

(31:09):
I mean, I didn't go to schoolfor speech therapy it's like
crazy what we have access to ifwe just give ourselves the
credit to say like, yeah, I'msmart enough to do this.
And it's like, if you don'tthink you're qualified to teach
your kids, why are you going tosend them to the same place that
educated you, that didn't makeyou qualified?

(31:30):
Amen, yeah, yeah, and I lovewhat you said about what's the
goal, cause that's what I'vestarted really focusing on too.
Why are we doing it?
I just wrote an article for thequite frankly podcast, their
newsletter on why are we eveneducating them in the first
place?
We get we, we send them off toschool because they're five
years old and that's whateverybody does.
But nobody stops to say do youwant to send your kids to school

(31:51):
?
It's actually a choice, justlike when you have the baby in
the hospital.
Or you know, do you want tohave a baby in a hospital or do
you?
They don't even ask you do youwant to vaccinate this baby?
It's like, just, this is whatyou do because society tells you
this is what you do.
But, um, you know why are wedoing it?
And when we stop to think aboutit.
It's like, all right, well, doI want a test taker?

(32:12):
No, I kind of want someonethat's going to be
self-sufficient and knows how togrow food and build a shelter
and find water.
Or you know someone that knowsa little bit about how to run a
business, you know how to dotheir taxes, how to find
information, how to thinkcritically, which just means not
believing everything you hearor read, and thinking about the

(32:33):
other side and let's hearanother opinion.
And who benefits off of this?
Like, who's making money?
You know, it's like we're nevertaught that in school.
It's so crazy.
What are, like, I guess, goalsthat you think of long-term?
Like, how are you going toprepare them if they want to go
to college?
Like I know?
You said that you know ifcurriculum comes into it at some

(32:55):
point, that's fine because it'schild led, and I think that's a
big point that you made too.
Just because you unschooldoesn't mean you're never using
curriculum.
It means you're going to usecurriculum that interests your
child, because that's what theywant to learn about.
So that's a really good pointthat you made.
I hadn't thought about thatbefore.
How do you think aboutpreparing them, since you do

(33:19):
have the teaching background.
What do they really need?
Do they need SATs andtrigonometry and chemistry and
biology and all that stuff?
Is it necessary?

Speaker 2 (33:31):
Yeah.
So you know, if we're talkingabout our tinfoil hat right now,
will that even be around in 10years, right?
Will we be sending kids tocollege, right?
So I am.
I'm definitely lookinglong-term at by 18, before they
go off into college or rightbefore they have to be admitted

(33:51):
into college, will they beprepared for a certain test,
right?
I mean, I think it was just.
It was just told that I don'tknow if it's in all states or
some states, but they're noteven requiring teachers anymore
to pass a basic skills testanymore New Jersey, if that's
occurring, that's insane to mebecause I studied my butt off

(34:14):
for it, which proves I was noteducated enough.
Through all of it.
I still had to study to do it.
Those are the things you wantto be able to do at 18 and
acquire the knowledge, right.
So I hope at some point we dodeep dive into some fun
curriculum.
But you know, it's not alwaysabout us needing to teach it to

(34:37):
them either At 15, if my kid isreally into I don't know right
physics, which is not my worldat all, I may not even think I'm
prepared at that point to teachhim or her that, but we can
find someone.
That is right.
There's tutors, there will beprograms, there might be who

(34:58):
knows?
There might be people offering,you know, experience-led
internships and things like that.

Speaker 1 (35:04):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (35:05):
So my main goal right now is by 18, I know they'll be
able to acquire the knowledgeif you're instilling the
characteristics of that now.
Right, and I was not raisedwith God and I I had probably 15
people that have come throughmy life at some point
specifically.
I tell this often specificallyspeaking God into my world,

(35:27):
happily comfortably, and myresponse was always the same I
don't not believe in God.
I wasn't raised with it.
It's an extremely intimidatingsubject to me.
I'm a very black and white girl.
I have so many questions andstarting that journey by myself
was overwhelming.
Trying to maybe have a careertakeoff, trying to finish a

(35:49):
master's degree right, I'm notgoing to start reading the Bible
from the front to the back whenI don't even know the answers
of anything that I'm reading.
I always knew I wanted to raisemy kids with God, even though I
had no idea, and I alwaysthought, well, I'll just have to
learn alongside them.
And that's exactly what'shappening right now.
Everything ties into the Biblesomehow, some way.

(36:10):
You know your phonics lesson.
You'll, if you're reading, oryou know practicing verses or
whatever, find words in want togive any spoiler alerts, it was
a great movie.
I don't love the company Disney, but we are engrossed in Disney
.
Okay, disney lyrics, disneysongs, disney movies, vocabulary

(36:38):
.
You know everything you canpull out of some of the things
they're very much interested in.
You know they watch Tangledtoday and we're potty training I
potty train off movie promisesand my son, out of nowhere, was
like mom, what does the wordsmolder mean?
You know he had said it twiceand I was like I mean that
happens once a day.
Right, if we're singing in theact, they ask.

(36:58):
So you got vocabulary, we have,you know whatever.
So Mufasa tied into its twobrothers, right and jealousy.
And we had just happened toread the story of Cain and Abel.
They connected that on theirown right.
There is somehow things touchback to God all the time and so,
if I were to say anything,focus on reading and building a

(37:22):
spiritual connection.

Speaker 1 (37:23):
Hey everyone, this is Cheryl.
I wanna thank you so much forchecking out the podcast.
I'm gonna keep this short andsweet because I know your time
is valuable.
I wanna ask you a seriousquestion Do your kids know what
to do to actually save theirlife in an emergency?
The most important thing we cantalk to our kids about is
knowing their first and lastname, knowing mom and dad's
first and last name, mom's phonenumber, dad's phone number,

(37:44):
their address, what to do ifthey get lost, what to do if
someone who's watching them hasa heart attack, a stroke, an
accident where they fall andyour child needs to get help.
We live in a world where there'sno landline phones anymore,
basically, and cell phones lock.
Does your child know how tocall 911 from a locked cell
phone?
It is absolutely possible, andmy book demonstrates how to do

(38:06):
that, whether it's an Android,whether it's an iPhone and, most
importantly, it starts theconversation, because I was
going through homeschoolingcurriculum with my kids,
realizing that, gee, maybe theyskim over this stuff, but they
don't get into depth, so mychild's not gonna remember this
should an accident occur, right?
I asked a couple of teacherswhat they do in school and they

(38:28):
said they really don't doanything either other than talk
about what to do in a fireduring the month of October fire
prevention month.
So I wrote a book because thisis near and dear to my heart.
I have had multiple friends thathave lost kids in tragedies and
I don't want to see it happenagain if it doesn't have to.
We were at the fair over thesummer and the first thing I
said to my son when we walkedthrough that gate was what's my

(38:51):
first and last name, what isyour first and last name and
what is my phone number?
And if you get lost, what areyou going to do?
You can get my book on Amazonand I will put the link in my
show's description Again.
It's called let's TalkEmergencies and I really hope
you'll check it out becausethere's just no need to be
scared when you can chooseprepared.

Speaker 2 (39:10):
It doesn't have to be my God, but find the belief in
a higher power, or find thebelief in faith and a
fearlessness that if you're agood person and you have a good
sense of direction, of you, knowwho you want to be, your
learning will come.
It will all come to you.
Oh, I love that.

Speaker 1 (39:30):
Yeah, I had kind of a similar journey where I was
like, well, I want to raise mykid with God because you know I,
I am not always going to behere and I want to give them
comfort If, god forbid,something were to happen to me
earlier than I want it to.
You know, I want them to beable to have a place for comfort

(39:50):
in that and, which is a veryprobably weird things that way.
That's so morbid.
But you know, I, you know, gotchildren's Bibles and I'm
reading it with my son and I'mlike, geez, this one's pretty.
This is pretty rough in that,you know so, but it's like that

(40:12):
was the old Testament.
So then I get learning aboutokay, well, what's the
difference between the oldTestament and the new Testament?
And I'm sort of finding out,like, what do I believe in?
And questioning things.
And and I think that stuff'simportant too, because learning
never ends, like it doesn'tstart in kindergarten and end
with your bachelor's degree ormaster's degree.
It starts from the day you comeout of the womb and it ends the
day that you die.
You're always learningsomething.

(40:32):
So why do we feel like it justhas to be in these years in the
childhood, where their brainsare developing.
And that's exactly.
It's exactly why it was plannedout that way.
When you look at the history ofeducation and you know Horace
Mann and John Dewey bringing itover from the model where they
just wanted to influence the waythe young minds were thinking,

(40:55):
they didn't want peoplephilosophizing about God.
And well, if I have faith inthis God, I don't have to follow
the rulers, because God's moreimportant.
Like they wanted to shift allof that to know we are the
rulers, you will praise us andlisten to us and everything else
is secondary.
You know we want you to fightfor us if, if we come under

(41:15):
attack, and you know so.
They were grooming people thiswhole time and you know they
brought it over to the UnitedStates and, um, you know we
actually started the schoolsystem like 120 years ago.
That's it.
We've been around.
Humans have been around forthousands and thousands of years
homeschooling kids learning inthe community.
You know they had one roomschool houses in the 1800s, but

(41:39):
that was all the kids learningtogether, just your basic skills
.
You know reading, writing andsome math, and then your house,
your family, your communitytaught you more of what you
needed for survival, and it'sjust crazy that it turned into
that and just a hundred yearswent from you go to this one
room schoolhouse or or not atall to you send them off at six

(42:02):
weeks to a daycare because youhave to go back to work because
of this women's movement, thatdoubled the tax base for the
government.
You know, and then you're.
You're basically in aninstitution your entire
childhood till you're about 22or 24 years old.
It's insanity.

Speaker 2 (42:22):
It really is.
And it's heartbreaking becauseI mean, that's essentially
another reason of why, you know,I was.
I was a teacher for the schoolyear and I wasn't making enough.
I had no kids, by the way.
I wasn't making enough for meto like reach goals without kids
.
So then I became anadministrator for the summer
camp all summer and that's, youknow, that job starts in the

(42:43):
middle of my school teachingyear.
So I was, and a master's degree, you know, four nights a week
and honestly, I mean, if I hadkids I would have, I would have
lived in a shoe box beforepushing through all of that,
because I was still only making$70,000, maybe, maybe, but that
was with two jobs, right, I mean.
So I wasn't.

(43:04):
It was overwork, underpaid, andthen you then you add kids into
it.
So there are moms out there thatare killing it and walking away
from a much bigger paycheckthan that.
Mine would have been pennies.
Comparing, if I leave my kidsall day, what am I bringing home
?
Right, a couple thousanddollars.
So I can understand the momsthat are making six figures and

(43:25):
feel like, a I might be thebreadwinner of the family and B
that's a really hard amount ofmoney to walk away that I worked
so hard to get to right.
I worked really hard and Iwasn't making that much money,
so that was an easy choice forme.
But also anyone that knows meor you know would say like, okay
, I've, I've wanted to have 10kids since I was 10 myself.

(43:46):
Right, it's just been who I wasand not everyone else was
growing up to say that and yeah,I'm all about working moms and
I'm all about, you know,hustling and bringing in as much
as you can.
These years go really fast andthat money will still be there.
And you know, I think that's,you know, the moms that are
working, the breadwinning moms.

(44:07):
Much of what this unschoolingapproach looks like is we go all
day long just surviving 15minutes at the dinner table I'm
like, oh well, look at that,we're counting up.
Now We've just accomplished amath task that in a classroom I
would have spent seven daysteaching a group of 30 kids and
then figuring out how many ofthem got it.
We would have touched on thesame topic for 45 minutes of

(44:29):
math every day that week and mykid just proved it in 15 minutes
it's possible to do it all.
You know the parents that aresending their kids to the
private school because it's abetter choice than the public
system.
Save that money, get a privatenanny, let your kids just be
kids all day long and you know,keep that nanny or bring that.

(44:50):
You know I don't I'm not solvingeveryone's problems, but it's.
There are ways around figuringout where that 25 minutes a day
can come into.
Or, you know, push it, push itto the weekend and really do
nothing all week and spend threehours on your Saturday and
Sunday right In a different waythan guess what.
Can't go to that birthday partythis weekend and we're not

(45:13):
gonna go on that date night thisweekend, or whatever it might
look like.
The time is so short now, butit's crucial.

Speaker 1 (45:21):
Yeah, and I find that , even with just letting my kids
sleep in until their body'sready to wake up in the morning,
that's gotta do wonders forjust your overall wellbeing.
Letting your body sleep If it'sgoing through a growth spur or
fighting off uh you know a coldor some sort of illness, or your
, your brain is trying to makeconnections and synapses and

(45:44):
it's tiring, you're just lettingthem sleep until they're ready
to wake up and also, just likethe morning isn't.
Come on, we got to go.
Come on, we got to get a house.
Come on, we got to do like that.
I think that's why I am such aspaz the way I am, because
that's all I heard.
My mother was just alwaysrushing us from here to there
that she, she doesn't even haveanywhere to go anymore.

(46:07):
She's 77 and retired and she'sstill that way.
So it's just like it ingrains inyou, and I don't want that for
my kids.

Speaker 2 (46:16):
Well, and I think that's another important thing
is I'm not perfect.
I am a school teacher and I wasa really good teacher and
handled the stress in theclassroom much differently than
I handle the stress under myroof.
So you know, like I don't everhide who I am.
Or you know, like I think birthorder is really interesting
right now, now that I have threeI came from three I'm a middle

(46:39):
child.
I think there's so much intothat, right, so I'm.
I am not perfect and our dayincludes happy moments, touching
moments, snuggles, calm, slowmornings, some chaotic lunch
moments.
I shout, I have threatened totake things away.
Right, you know, we have throweverything to the wall and see

(47:00):
what sticks.
So, like you know, gentleparenting.
Ok, let's see how good I can doat this.
Oh, wait a minute, I'm not sureI agree with gentle parenting
anymore.
Oh, wait a minute, I'm not sureI agree with gentle parenting
anymore.
You know, I mean reallyhonestly, everyone, I think, has
to shut off all the noise andfigure out who they are, who

(47:23):
they want their kids to be.
It's you know, take yourselfout of that rat race.
You have the time with yourkids, whether you're working,
whether they're in school andyou still want to instill some
of the homeschool benefits youcan.
You know it's and it's notalways going to be pretty.
It is not Instagram pretty, itis not just what people you know
those short little reels of.
Oh look what we did today.

Speaker 1 (47:39):
Heck, no, heck, no so true, it's, yes, it's the mess,
the chaos, sometimes the screenon, just way too much more than
you are, yeah, willing to admitand but you know what I always
say at the end of those days.
I'm like you know what?
They were fed without chemicals.
They were not getting thechemicals, that's in all the

(48:03):
school breakfast and lunches.
They were not privy to anyshelter in place drills today
and they got outside we usuallyalways get outside unless
somebody is really really sick,you know.
So they got some fresh air,they were loved and they were
not in any combat training.
So, and that really, I'm likethat's enough, it is yeah.

Speaker 2 (48:24):
And you know, I, I don't know, I, I, I kept
thinking to myself like what ifsomeone was listening, cause I
gain a lot from your episodes?
And you know, I, I don't know,I, I, I kept thinking to myself
like what if someone waslistening, cause I gain a lot
from your episodes?
Someone you know mentionedsomething.
You mentioned something, and Ijot it down.
I'm like I don't even know whatthat was.
I got to look into it.
Or that sounds like a greatbook.
I got to look into it.
Right, I don't know if I'veshared anything that someone can
take away.

(48:44):
I just, oh, yes, away.
I just want people to know thatthere is, there's a way around
it all, and especially in theyoung years, just play.
It's so hard to feel like you'redoing something when you're
just playing.
That is, that's what fuelstheir soul.
It'll feel your own soul andyou will see it show out in

(49:09):
tenfold, right, I mean, I think,most of what we do.
I mean I've got my daughter'salmost four, but she's been
playing cards, grasping conceptof a deck of cards, and she had
just turned three Deck of cards.
Lots and lots and lots of books, cards, lots and lots and lots

(49:32):
of books, board games, wordgames, right, like puzzles, big
on puzzles, and those are hard.
When you feel like you're, it'slike, oh my God, that puzzle
will take us 45 minutes, right,and I've got to cook dinner and
I've got to do this.
And working moms, stay at home,moms, everyone has that never
ending list.
But, like you said, your soncame up and had asked you to
read that book.
Never say no, push dinner,always take those moments, right

(49:55):
.
Not that you can like cancel ameeting if you're working from
home or whatever, but grab thatbook and tell him we'll do this
in 25 minutes.
Do not forget those things thatthey're bringing to you.
You know I teach my kids games,and then the ones they really
want to play.
We play 17 times an hour, right, we don't get to play nine
different games.
We are playing the same gameover and over and I know they're

(50:19):
getting something from it, youknow.
So, I don't know, maybe I'llsend you an email after this
with some of our favorite cardgames.
Um, you know, uh, brain gamesthat you know you can list
somewhere where people can click.
I'll put it right in the show'sdescription yeah, because I
think, if anyone, if you cantake away any, whether they're
in school or not, the time youspend with your kids should just

(50:42):
be phone free, play, just play,and they'll tell you what they
like to do.
You know I mean, every parentknows that, but commit yourself
to playing, that's you know.
Don't feel like, oh well, yeah,you wanted to cook this big
dinner tonight, but tonight shewas really interested in this,
so we'll cook that tomorrow.
Right, that's the type A of me.
Now I've been broken into the.

(51:03):
You can push it, let loose.

Speaker 1 (51:11):
That's really what it is.
Yeah, I, that's.
It's.
That's beautiful and what agreat way to round up the hour.
And we've been playing.
I talk about it a lot lately,now that my son's six and he's,
you know, the last year he'sbeen into playing games.
You know, skip or mancala, allthe double shutter.
It's so cool as they start tokind of become these little
people that can grasp theseconcepts and it's really fun.

(51:32):
You know, I think it's hard fora lot of us to like.
Some of some of us struggleespecially depending on how your
childhood was with, like,actually sitting down with a one
year old or a two year old, andOK, I'm, I'm a dolly like that.
It doesn't come quite asnatural.
But when they get to that whichthat's really important too
it's gotta be done.
But when they get to that age,we're like you're playing a game

(51:54):
against each other or, you know, with each other.
It's just so cool and it bringsjust such a bonding, a
beautiful bonding momenttogether and yeah, they, and
then they start asking for itall the time.
So it's just a really cool wayto keep the screens off and find
a way to enjoy each other, andthey're always learning from the
games they're all educationalin some way.
Oh, katie, thank you so much forbeing with us tonight.

(52:16):
Anything else that you wantedto make sure you said I will put
any of those games in thedescription.
Any that you want to send mewill be in the description for
folks to check out.
I sometimes forget to put thatstuff in the description, but
I'm trying to be really goodabout that, because I do like a
copy paste thing and I'm goingto like write a little post it
on my desk.

Speaker 2 (52:36):
Yeah Well, I can't promise I'll get you the list
tonight, but at some point youcan probably even throw it on
your no rush Somewhere yeah.
But, no, I think I'm hoping moremoms want to whether they don't
want to come on the podcast,but I'm hoping they want to
share more insights.
I'm looking for so many moreunschoolers who have
successfully pushed their kidsinto college and can say you're

(53:00):
on the right path.
Right?
We said it in the beginning.
I question myself every day ifI'm doing this right.
I have probably my husband andI have both probably said I
think it's time for us to putthem in school.
We're not built for this toomany times.
Right, you question yourselfall the time, but the end goal
is so far out if you're,especially if you're starting

(53:21):
from the beginning.
But either way, unschooling isliterally the point of take them
out wherever they're at and letthem be right, get out of that
bell schedule, get out of whatschool is supposed to look like
at home and just trust yourselfas parents that you'll find the
right things for them when theyneed it.
So thanks so much.

Speaker 1 (53:42):
I had heard once that everything your child needs to
learn to be successful in lifecan happen in their high school
years.
Everything before that shouldjust be play.
How would you feel about that?

Speaker 2 (53:54):
1000%.
I mean, yeah, I like I had alist of here, of, like, if I
were to say anything, what aremy homeschool must?
Right, if you want to try anddo not even just unschooling,
but the homeschool must and it'sa library card teach them some
sort of type of competitivelearning.
Right, that comes with ourgames.
My son loves to have some sortof chocolate chip at the end

(54:16):
right, some sort of.
He picks the movie next time ifhe wins.
My daughter and him are nowplaying together competitively
and they both can lose andthere's no crying over it.
Right, they're good winners,good losers.
A big one on here for me also islike we sing at dance parties.
Music gets us through anything.
We do a lot of chores.

(54:37):
I'm very proud of what my kidscan do at this age.
They help me throughout thehouse, right.
Prep dinner, they cookbasically everything with me.
It's much easier to let themcook with you and make the mess
than to manage them somewhereelse in the house while you're
trying to cook Chores.
Right, you want them to behappy unloading a dishwasher
every day, right, and in orderto do that, you have to be right

(55:00):
, you find the reason to do that.
We're lucky to be cleaningdishes that we got to eat good
food on and listening to music.
While you do it right, you justfind a way to make it all fun
and that's all play-based.
And, honestly, what I learned inhigh school, I needed to
relearn in college.
So high school wasn't even thebest time for me to learn at all

(55:22):
.
If we're being honest, I'm youknow, I am learning so much more
at my six-year-old's level thanI ever did.
You know, and you know some ofthe other day I forget who it
was Someone said.
I said you know, we're reallyonly I'm making sure my kids are
literate.
I want them to be able to readand write.
So the only thing I could sayI've like instructed or, like,
you know, wrote on a board orthings like that is the phonics.

(55:43):
And they were like, well, whatis phonics?
And I thought, well, there yougo.
Right, we don't even know someof the typical names of what you
yourself learned in school.
So right.

Speaker 1 (55:58):
Yeah, it was the same way.
I didn't know what phonics wasbefore talking to homeschooling
families.
Oh my God.
No, I love everything that youjust said.
I'm so glad that you kind ofthrew all that in as your
closing, because you had liketwo closings there.
They were both phenomenal.
But oh my gosh, yes, I love allthat and I'm thinking of like
you turning into a type Bpersonality, as you're like

(56:20):
vacuum for me and you're like,oh my God, you're leaving all
that dog hair still.
But it's being that type B.
You got roll with it, causeeach time they do it, they're
going to get better and better.
That's awesome, and that's whyall my plates are chipped,
because I my six year old willunload the dishwasher for me and
every time I like take anotherplate on, I'm like why, where
did all these chips come from?

(56:41):
But I'm going to blame him.
At least it is probably me.
But yeah, it's a type B now.
Katie, thank you so much forjoining me on the podcast today.
Thank you.

Speaker 2 (56:50):
Cheryl, it's been a pleasure.
I can't wait to hear more ofwhat you have.

Speaker 1 (56:58):
Thank you for tuning into this week's episode of the
homeschool how to.
If you've enjoyed what youheard and you'd like to
contribute to the show, pleaseconsider leaving a small tip
using the link in my show'sdescription.
Or, if you'd rather, please usethe link in the description to
share this podcast with a friendor on your favorite homeschool
group Facebook page.
Any effort to help us keep thepodcast going is greatly

(57:19):
appreciated.
Thank you.