August 23, 2025 • 51 mins
Join host Cheryl as she explores the fascinating world of unschooling with Debbie, an Australian homeschooling mom who's raising three children (ages 4, 11, and 13) using radical unschooling principles. This eye-opening conversation reveals how questioning medical authority led to questioning educational systems, and why some families are choosing to let their children learn naturally through play and exploration.
What You'll Discover:
🎓 Unschooling Fundamentals:
- What unschooling really looks like in daily practice
- Why boys may naturally learn to read later than girls (ages 6-9 vs 5-7)
- How children thrive when they learn at their own developmental pace
🇦🇺 Homeschooling in Australia:
- Legal requirements and reporting processes for Australian homeschoolers
- How 11,000 registered families (potentially 30,000+ total) are homeschooling in Queensland alone
- Recent legislative challenges and victories for homeschool freedom
🌱 Child-Led Learning Benefits:
- Real examples of kids developing business skills through 3D printing ventures
- How unschooled children learn critical thinking and problem-solving naturally
- The importance of protecting childhood while preparing for adulthood
📱 Technology & Screens:
- Balanced approaches to screen time in unschooling families
- Teaching digital safety and online awareness to young children
- Why radical unschoolers don't impose traditional screen time limits
🏥 From Medical to Educational Freedom:
- How questioning unnecessary medical interventions led to educational awakening
- Parallels between hospital protocols and school systems
- The importance of individualized approaches vs. one-size-fits-all solutions
Perfect For:
- Parents considering homeschooling or unschooling
- Families seeking alternatives to traditional education
- Those interested in child development and natural learning
- Homeschoolers looking for community and support ideas
Featured Topics: Unschooling, radical unschooling, homeschooling Australia, child-led learning, natural reading development, homeschool reporting requirements, screen time balance, educational freedom, alternative education, deschooling journey
Guest: Debbie from The Village Hub, Queensland, Australia - Unschooling coach and homeschool community creator
Cheryl's Guide to Homeschooling: Check out The Homeschool How To Complete Starter Guide- Cheryl's eBook compiling everything she's learned from her interviews on The Homeschool How To Podcast.
👉 15% off Tuttle Twins books with code Cheryl15
What is the most important thing we can teach our kids?
HOW TO HANDLE AN EMERGENCY!
This could mean life or death in some cases!
Help a child you know navigate how to handle an emergency situation with ease: Let's Talk, Emergencies!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
Welcome to this week's episode of the Homeschool
How-To.
I'm Cheryl and I invite you tojoin me on my quest to find out
why are people homeschooling,how do you do it, how does it
differ from region to region,and should I homeschool my kids?
Stick with me as I interviewhomeschooling families across
the country to unfold theanswers to each of these
(00:26):
questions week by week.
Welcome, and with us today Ihave Debbie from Australia.
Debbie, welcome.
What time of day is it there?
Speaker 2 (00:39):
Thanks for having me.
It's 10 o'clock in the morninghere in Australia and I think
I'm a day in front of you.
Speaker 1 (00:44):
All right, don't tell me what happens.
Yeah, it's eight at night here,so that's, that's so fun.
I have a friend that went toAustralia in college to study
abroad.
She loved it.
They're like actually I'm soAmerican right now, I'm sorry.
They're actually kangaroos thathop around.
Yeah, totally Totally totallythat's so cool.
(01:06):
We have like uh, I don't knowcockroaches here in new york,
but no, I'm kidding.
So, all right, tell me, how didyou enter this homeschooling
world?
Is it legal?
It's legal in australia tohomeschool, right?
Yeah, it is a hundred percentgermany germany?
It is not, but I I believethere in one other place isn't
all right, so tell us how didyou enter this world?
Speaker 2 (01:22):
I was actually homeschooled for part of my
schooling career.
I went to school traditionalschool, here in Australia until
I was nine or ten, and then mymum fell very ill.
I thought she had a stroke.
She was eventually diagnosedwith multiple sclerosis and just
because dad needed to keepworking, they decided that it
was easier to homeschool myselfand my brother, and so we lived
(01:46):
in New South Wales at the timeand so I did the Australian
grade six and grade seventhrough.
Each each state has its ownrequirements.
This was obviously 20 years ago, but I did grade six and seven
through New South Wales, whichwas very.
You build your own curriculumand then you have the assessor
come and interview you and thenyou just, you know, do your own
(02:10):
thing day by day.
And then we moved to Queenslandand back then the only way you
could homeschool in Queenslandwas to do distance education,
which is where the teachers arein a location and they're
delivering the curriculum, andso I did that for grade eight,
nine and 10.
But back then, like pre-internet, it was very easy to just.
(02:31):
You know, everything was ashard copy.
You just completed all of yourwork and sent it back whenever
you were ready to send it back,and so I had lots of time to be
out with friends.
I had a job from the time I was14.
So I was working, so I wasworking and, like I was working
in an office environment, andthen on the days I wasn't
working, completing myschoolwork, and so I actually
(02:54):
think that gave me a reallygreat basis for ending up
becoming a homeschooling parent,because I got to experience
both ways of homeschooling, eventhough that's quite different.
Now.
The distance education thing isall delivered online and you
have to be there in person forthe whole.
Well, not in person, you've gotto be there online physically
for the whole day, which Ireally don't agree with.
I really struggle with thatschool at home kind of thing.
(03:17):
But we are very muchhomeschoolers and in fact we're
unschoolers, and I didn't thinkwhen I first had kids that I
would homeschool.
I had this plan that they wouldgo to private school, and then,
as the years kind of rolled on,I realized that actually
homeschooling was going to be areally good option, and that was
partly just from starting toquestion all the systems.
(03:38):
You know, I had a cesarean withmy first child, which turned out
to be an unnecessary cesarean,and so then I went on to have a
home birth with my second childand, you know, once you realize
that the doctors in the hospitalwere just operating under their
system and they weren'toperating in your best interests
and they were just doing all oftheir procedures and protocols
and you didn't really matter asan individual in the process,
(04:02):
once I started to question thatsystem, and then you know, come
across other information andthen it becomes easier to start
questioning all of the othersystems and go down all the
other rabbit holes.
So by the time my second childwas a year or two old, I was
pretty confident that we weregoing to homeschool and knowing
that so many of the countriesthat have really high
(04:22):
educational outcomes don't doany book work until seven or
eight years old, that was reallyeasy to go.
Okay, we're just going tounschool for the first couple of
years and we're just going toplay and focus on that and then
we'll look at, you know,bringing in some actual
educational stuff later on inthe piece.
So yeah, that's how we ended updown that track.
Speaker 1 (04:42):
Yeah, it's upsetting that the medical system in
Australia is no different thanin America.
I would hope that that you know.
Okay, it's America,everything's so commercialized.
The Rockefellers wrote themedical books but it's like how
did those medical books maketheir way to Australia?
You think you know like there?
Would just be more alternativemethods there we do have.
Speaker 2 (05:04):
I will say we do have a better system than in america
because we have free healthcare in australia.
So our medicare is you know youcan go to a bulk bill doctor
and it's free.
If you're sick and you go to apublic hospital, you know that's
free.
You can be pregnant and gothrough the public hospital
system and it's almost free.
(05:26):
And then of course you canchoose to go private.
We do have also really goodaccess reasonable access, I
would say to home birth inAustralia.
There's quite a lot of privatemidwives and doulas and that
kind of thing and home birth islegal in all states.
In Australia, you know, they dotry and put more restrictions
(05:47):
on home birth and now you haveto have two midwives attend
every home birth and then that'shard in rural areas because
it's hard to actually get twomidwives to, you know, sustain a
business out there or to travelto you.
So there are things that suckand aren't great.
There are things that that suckand aren't great, but overall
we do have better access thanAmerica.
But our intervention rates inpregnancy and birth are super,
(06:12):
duper high.
Our cesarean rates are superhigh.
Rates of complication are superhigh.
Yeah, we, we do.
Australia follows America in alot of things, a lot of things.
Speaker 1 (06:24):
That's unfortunate.
And yeah, my second was acesarean and I always wondered,
now that I know what I know, I'mlike did she have to be?
They told me that the placentawas like covering where she was
going to come out and I wouldjust hemorrhage and die and I'm
like all right, cut her out.
But now I'm like I wonder, Idon't know that when you're
going through all the hormonesand stuff, you're I throw my
(06:46):
hands up after certain things,like fine, whatever, I put up
the vaccine fight.
But I was like just all right,cut her out.
Now I wonder, you know, maybewe could have like tried and
then do an emergency C-sectionif necessary, but they didn't
even want to do that.
But you know, whatever youcan't live in the past you
learned from from whatever youdidn't share your story, so
(07:06):
other people know with mydaughter as well.
Speaker 2 (07:08):
You know she was a cesarean and I know that I just
was in early labor and I went tohospital too early and they
broke my waters and they put askull clip on her and they had
me lying on my back and she wasposterior and I was like there's
no way she's going.
She wasn't engaged.
There is no way, looking back,knowing what I know now, that
(07:31):
that baby was going to be ableto come out and I ended up
having an epidural and it just Ican see how the cascade of
interventions happened for me.
But at the same time I realizedthat that was probably a really
important turning point in mylife because if that hadn't
happened to me, I wouldn't havethen gone down the track of
(07:51):
going.
Okay, I think I want to have ahome birth because I really want
to have a VBAC and that's theway that I think I can achieve
that.
And I ended up in VBAC groups,where then people were talking
about, you know, and Facebookgroups were in the infancy back
then.
But that was when I was able toget in some breastfeeding
support groups and VBAC supportgroups and just come across a
(08:13):
whole lot of alternativeinformation that I wasn't
getting from anybody that I hadseen previously in the medical
system.
So, you know, off track ofhomeschooling.
But that's how I found out thatmy daughter had a tongue tie and
just went down all of thosepaths that ultimately have led
me to where I am right now,which is, you know, operating
(08:33):
outside the system.
Like we, I'm here to create thenew systems, the new ways of
being, all of the alternativesthat are viable and sustainable
and nourishing and nurturing forfamilies.
So you know, I actually have.
I have my, my business and my,my homeschool co-op that I was
talking to you about, but I alsohave another business where I
support families inbreastfeeding and tongue tying,
(08:55):
all of that kind of things.
You know as much as, for mydaughter's sake, I would love
for her to have not been bornvia cesarean.
I do think that maybe that wasour sole plan for her and I,
that she would come into theworld this way, and then it
would, you know, take me fromtracking down this fairly
mainstream path and just off onthis like completely side path,
(09:17):
which has just led to anabsolutely incredible life for
all of us.
Speaker 1 (09:21):
Yeah, and you know you say it doesn't have anything
to do with homeschooling, but Ithink it does, because the
school system trained you tojust believe authority and don't
question it, and that's that.
It's exactly what we're tryingto.
Not teach our kids inhomeschool is no, you don't have
to question authority, youdon't have to.
You know, you can say, oh,that's a good point of view.
(09:42):
Let me look at some otherpoints of view, because yeah, we
didn't learn that in school.
Speaker 2 (09:47):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
And when I run a homeschoolworkshop and I start out telling
the story about the cesareanbecause that really for me was
the point and it wasn't even atthat point, because then I
believed that I needed it andthat the doctors had done
everything that they could andet cetera.
And it was only after I joinedthose groups and started talking
(10:09):
to people that it dawned on meand people were saying to me the
doctors are not necessarilythere for your best interests
and they're not treating you asan individual person and et
cetera.
And the number of parallelsbetween the medical system and
the school system is huge.
And that, you know, was thefirst.
(10:30):
That was the first step in myde-schooling journey to start to
question authority that way.
That then led me to be able tostart to question authority in
other ways.
And, you know, despite beinghomeschooled myself, my parents
were, you know, a fairly strictreligious background and they
were very much.
Everybody else is the authority, you know.
The doctors are the authority,the police are the authority,
(10:51):
every other person outside ofour family is the authority.
Yeah, so, despite having a fairbit of freedom in my childhood
in how I was learning,everything was still very
mainstream from that perspective.
So it wasn't until.
You know, I often say it's,it's sucks, but we often have to
get screwed over by the systembefore we start questioning it
(11:14):
and going hang on a minute.
That was really horrible.
I don't want to do that again.
And then we go down a differentpath and start researching and,
you know, doing different ways.
Speaker 1 (11:25):
Most of us that guy here were mainstream.
At one time we didn't have thehippie parents that.
Ironically, the hippie parentsnow seem to be the people
getting the COVID shots and thisand that so I don't know what
the heck.
The world flipped upside down.
Speaker 2 (11:40):
Yeah, all right.
Speaker 1 (11:41):
So you said that you do some unschooling.
Now, how old are your kids?
Speaker 2 (11:45):
My eldest is nearly 13.
My middle child is nearly 11.
And my youngest just turnedfour yesterday.
Speaker 1 (11:51):
OK.
So you said places like and Iknow you're talking about like
Finland, they have verysuccessful rates of you know,
education and you know just howkids turn out.
They don't start any sort ofbook work until they're in seven
years old.
So you said you started outearly homeschooling or
unschooling because you didn'treally have to do any sort of
(12:13):
formal book work.
But once you got to that ageseven, were you like no, we're
actually learning a lot.
We can keep going with this?
Speaker 2 (12:19):
Yeah, absolutely yeah .
So I, you know, I startedfollowing people like Dana
Martin and some of the other youknow unschooling advocates and,
yeah, it got so easy.
Another similarity it was likebreastfeeding I'm going to
breastfeed until they're one.
And then you got to one andyou're like, oh, I could totally
go until they're two.
And then you got to two andyou're like, well, they're still
(12:40):
so tiny, I'll just go untilthey're three.
Unschooling was exactly the same, because we got to seven and I
was like they're learning heapsthrough just living life and
following their interests, andwe could totally keep doing this
for another year or two and,you know, maybe when they get to
10, I'll start introducingsomething.
And now, you know, I actuallyoffer unschooling coaching for
mums in Australia because mykids are, you know, older and so
(13:05):
you know I'm supporting mumswho are coming in whose kids are
a little bit younger.
And I get the concern becauseit was my same concern when my
kids were younger that oh,they'll definitely need some
kind of book work to make surethat they're up to scratch and
they'll definitely need me to beenforcing something on them,
otherwise they're going to be,you know, failing at life.
And as I went further andfurther down the path of
(13:28):
trusting them and trustingmyself, trusting that they will
learn what they need to learnwhen they need to learn it.
You know my kids areflourishing in life and loving
life, just following theirinterests, spending time with
their friends.
My son, my middle child, waslate to learn to read,
(13:49):
comparatively to, you know, hispeers in school.
But I have a firm belief now,not just from my son but from
all of the kids that I see inunschooling groups, which is,
you know, if you think about it,unschooling groups are the only
place where you know, maybesome homeschooling mainly,
unschooling groups are the placewhere we can see what a child
(14:13):
is going to learn naturally,without being forced to learn it
.
Because everywhere else acrossthe world in the school system,
we're putting kids in school atage five or six and we're
teaching them to read, becausewe've got a classroom of 30 kids
and we've got one teacher andmaybe a teacher aid, and if the
kids can't read, then we can'tget all of these kids to do the
(14:34):
bookwork that we need to getthem to do to prove, all the way
up the line of the system, thatwe're teaching these kids
something because that's youknow, the whole system is
predicated on.
I've got to prove to myprincipal and we've got to prove
to the parents and the schoolboard and the education
department that we're teachingthese kids something.
So we've got to get them to dosome book work.
(14:55):
And in order to get them to dothe book work, they've got to
know how to read and they've gotto be able to do it themselves.
Because we don't have thecapacity to support them
one-to-one or to support theirindividual learning needs or the
way that they want to learn.
And so everybody has to learnto read at five or six, even if
that's not actually what they're, you know, developmentally
(15:16):
ready for.
And I now firmly believe thatgirls will naturally learn to
read between five and seven.
Boys are more like six to eight, maybe nine years old, and
that's really common in theunschooling groups that when
they do a poll, the boys all arelater to pick up reading.
And I do wonder I don't know ifit's the same in America but is
(15:38):
this why we have generations ofmen who don't like reading?
Because they were forced toread too early and it killed
their love of reading?
Speaker 1 (15:47):
Yeah, I definitely think so, Thinking about
homeschooling but don't knowwhere to start.
Well, I've interviewed a fewpeople on the topic Actually 120
interviews at this point withhomeschooling families from
across the country and the worldand what I've done is I've
packed everything I've learnedinto an ebook called the
Homeschool How-To CompleteStarter Guide.
From navigating your state'slaws to finding your
(16:08):
homeschooling style, fromworking while homeschooling to
supporting kids with specialneeds, this guide covers it all
with real stories from realfamilies who've walked this path
.
I've taken the best insights,the best resources and put them
all into this guide.
Stop feeling overwhelmed andstart feeling confident.
Get your copy of the Homeschoolhow To Complete Starter Guide
today and discover thathomeschooling isn't just about
(16:31):
education.
It's about getting what youwant out of each day, not what
somebody else wants out of you.
You can grab the link to thisebook in the show's description
or head on over tothehomeschoolhowtocom Now.
So what does your day-to-daylook like?
You're not enforcing anything,but are you like reading to the
kids what is your day-to-daytypically?
Speaker 2 (16:51):
Well, we run a modern co-op which is unschooling
friendly, so we do a lot offree-flowing activities.
We do kind of science-basedactivities, stem-based
activities, but none of them arein any way enforced or it's not
obligatory for the kids toparticipate in them.
So my kids do that two days aweek with me, so they're
(17:15):
spending time with their friends.
You know we've got a heatedswimming pool, we've got the big
play equipment.
We've got this really you knowkids wonderland kind of space
set up where the kids can justplay.
We've got a creek that runsthrough the back and the kids
hang out down there.
So we do that a couple of daysa week and then my kids and
(17:36):
myself certainly we need somedowntime after those.
You know big days where we'resocializing.
You know, on days when we'renot running the hub, that's when
we'll have, you know, kind ofchill out days like it's 1030
here.
My eldest child was up until Idon't know sometime after
midnight crafting.
She's still asleep.
My middle child is up until Idon't know sometime after
midnight crafting.
She's still asleep.
(17:56):
My middle child is up.
I think he's on a video callwith his friend from Sydney and
they might be doing some gamingtogether.
My youngest child has gone offfor a walk to the park with his
friend and a mum my other friend, and you know today we'll just
have like a quiet day, justchill out.
At home I tend to do a lot ofreading with the kids when
(18:17):
they're younger.
My eldest kids I don't reallyread to them as much these days,
um, but we do a fair bit of um,you know, we love chatting when
we're driving.
We you know off to go placesand we have really great chats
in the car.
And, um, you know off to goplaces and we have really great
chats in the car.
And you know, hanging outwatching, just really fun stuff,
(18:38):
like you know we love watchingDo Perfect and trick shot videos
and all kinds of stuff that youknow.
When we're then experimentingand trying stuff at home is, all
you know, fulfilling aspects ofthe curriculum and physics and
science and all kinds of stufflike that.
But none of it is me saying tothem okay, you really need to
learn about this.
(18:59):
But we do have conversationswhere, you know, my kids are of
an age now where they couldstart to think about having a
job in a couple of years time,and so you know, I talked to my
son because he can read but hisspelling's not great, and so I
talked to him about that only ina really casual way to say, hey
, like, is that something youwant to work on this year?
(19:20):
Tell me, what are the thingsthat you'd like to work on, what
things do you feel like youdon't know yet, that you want to
learn some more about, and thenwe, you know, go down the track
of learning that way, at themoment, what we're talking about
, their grandfather bought a 3Dprinter and they're loving
seeing what he's creating, andso we're talking about buying a
(19:41):
3D printer later in the year sothat they can start business,
and they both my two older kidshave some really firm but really
different ideas on what theywant to create and sell, and we
have lots of active homeschoolmarkets and kids markets around
here, so they actually thinkthat that more so than getting a
job.
My middle child in particularvery entrepreneurial, you know
(20:04):
he's really going to excel athaving his own business, I think
, rather than working for anyone, and so I think that that in
the next year or two, willactually develop a lot of skills
for them in, you know,budgeting and marketing and even
writing and spelling and all ofthat kind of stuff that you
know, if you were to look atthose things in comparison to
(20:28):
their school peers, they wouldbe behind in at the moment.
But I think a lot of unschoolingkids you know that they're a
little bit ahead in this thing,but they're a little bit behind
in this thing and then when theyget out into adulthood,
actually they've still got allthe skills that they need.
Even though they picked up athing at 16 that another kid was
(20:48):
being taught in school at 11years old, they still actually
end up with everything that theyneed.
And I know quite a reasonablenumber of unschooled adults who
are absolutely thriving andloving their lives and not in
any way feeling that they are.
You know that they wereshortchanged in their education
because they were able to justpick things up when they needed
(21:10):
to learn things when they neededto, and I mean honestly the
internet now, like you can learnanything whenever you want to
just access some tutorials.
Speaker 1 (21:20):
You know Right.
I did not know anything aboutpodcasting before I started and
you learn all that stuff alongthe way.
You learn how to.
I didn't know anything aboutpublishing a book.
I learned all that from theinternet, or you know or taking
a course.
People sell online courses allthe time and you know so.
Yes, there are so many otherways to learn, and when it's
(21:41):
actually relevant to your lifeis when it sticks.
Do we all need to knowPythagorean's theorem?
You know, are you ever going touse this stuff?
I had a teacher that Iinterviewed I just released that
episode last week and Angelaand she said I was a teacher and
they'd asked me Ms Harters,when are we going to need to use
this?
And she said I was honest,you're never going to need this.
I'm so sorry.
(22:02):
I had to take a precious timefrom your childhood and you
could be out playing and youknow being in nature to sit here
and talk to you about cosigns.
Oh it is.
It is crazy when we think aboutit now.
Ok, so how, how do you managetechnology as someone who
understands clearly that thereis a system out there and you
(22:23):
know they're against us?
There is a, you know, probablyan elite group running the world
.
They're using technology, butyou know there's a fine line
between also shielding your kidsfrom it forever and not
teaching them how to use it.
You know it's like that kidthat never got to drink alcohol
and goes to college and getswasted every day and can't
handle it, you know.
(22:44):
So how does it work in yourhousehold?
So?
Speaker 2 (22:46):
we're.
It's funny because when Istarted, way back when my son
was really little, it was thefirst time I came across dana,
dana Martin and I watched herinterview on 60 Minutes in
Australia and I was like, wow,that's really really out there,
like her kids don't have abedtime and they were living out
in the middle of the woods aswell, and she seemed really
really out there and I realizedthat like 10 years later, I'm
(23:07):
there, I'm in that place now,and so we're.
We're very much a radicalunschooling family now, so we
don't actually have I so we'revery much a radical unschooling
family now, so we don't actuallyhave I'm going to say this
phrase and then I'm going toclarify it we don't have any
real limits on screen time Now.
We do have some limits becausethere's various games that my
son isn't allowed to get or play.
(23:28):
We have those conversationsabout whether that's an
appropriate game for him to playat this age and you know, no,
that's not.
We're going to leave that untilyou're older.
We have some pretty strictrules around when they're
playing online that they're onlyplaying with talking to
friending in the games, kidsthat they know in real life, and
(23:48):
so you know we have.
I'm really grateful that in ourhomeschool community we have,
you know, a fairly tight knitgroup of mums and our kids.
When they're playing together.
They are playing.
They're on like video chat witheach other outside of the game,
so they're using messenger kidsor something like that to talk
to each other and we're alwaysaround, you know, so we're
(24:08):
always behind them and passingby and sitting in the same room
and so on, so all of us are ableto keep an eye on what games
they're playing, who they'replaying with, how they're
interacting with each other, and, honestly, the amount that they
learn just from doing that andplaying those games is
phenomenal, like the socialdevelopment and the teamwork and
(24:30):
the leadership and negotiatingand conflict resolution the
skills that they've picked upfrom doing those kinds of things
is just phenomenal, really.
And also, you know, I have twosort of sides of feelings about
the internet.
The first is, you know, yeah, Idon't want my kids being
(24:52):
exposed to stuff that they'renot developmentally ready for
and being exposed to stuff orbeing, you know, influenced in
negative ways.
And I also know that I don'twant to be approaching
everything with fear, becausethat's just going to make it
worse.
And I want my kids to be reallywell equipped because they are
the generation where screens,technology, ai is going to be
(25:15):
dominant in their lives mostlikely.
I mean, unless they do manageto go and live in a beautiful
little commune out in the forestsomewhere, they're probably
going to have it dominating alot of their lives and I want
them to be really well equippedfor that and I want them to feel
confident about it.
I don't want them to feelfearful like they.
(25:36):
You know, for example and Ihave nothing against this, but
if I was to completely restrictscreens until they're much older
and then they're just launchedinto it, like your example with
college, you know, then we're,you know they don't have any
skills and they haven't beenable to develop that over time.
(25:57):
And so you know, already I'vebeen able to have good chats
with my kids about.
You know, there are peopleonline that might pretend that
they're being kids in a game butactually they're not and
they're an adult and they're notsafe.
And you know, we've hadconversations about sextortion
and kidnapping, and people thatyou know use any kind of avenue
(26:18):
to be able to access kids andtalk to them and find out where
they live.
And so it's really coolactually to see my kids, you
know, because they do a bit ofcontent creation, like my
daughter writes full skits, fullpieces and has her friends act
out all of the parts and thenshe edits it and all that kind
of thing.
But it was very, very cool tosee how like well educated they
(26:42):
are on protecting themselves.
You know, like if they'reonline in a game, they know not
to use their friend's real nameand they all have screen names
and they all use their screennames with each other.
And you know my daughter wassharing some travel photos from
when we were overseas and sheknew to blur out her little
brother's face.
You know, even though I'veshared his face in a few places
(27:04):
on, you know, for when we'redoing, you know, our co-op sort
of stuff, I share it.
But you know it's really cool tosee how automatic that is for
them and how good they are withjust being savvy and being aware
, even at the age that they'reat, when stuff pops up that's
dodgy or that's, you know, thatperson's not great or that
(27:26):
person's using swear words orwhatever it is, and then they
know to get out of thatsituation.
So you know, I'm not sayingthat our approach is perfect by
any means, but it's working forus at the moment and my approach
is always we'll do what worksuntil it doesn't work and then
we'll figure out a different way.
If this thing's not working,then we'll look at it and we'll
(27:49):
try something else, and if thatthing doesn't work, then we'll
try something else and we'lljust keep going until we find,
you know, something that doeswork for all of us as a family
yeah, and I think that the factthat they're taking it seriously
says a lot too.
Speaker 1 (28:03):
You know, oh, we're going to use these screen names,
we're going to blur out hisface.
They're not just like it's mombeing crazy again.
You know they're taking itseriously that, yeah, yeah,
stuff like this does happen andyou know we're going to try to
mitigate that the best we canbecause, yeah, you can't really
shield them from everything.
I give props to the familiesthat do not do screens at all,
(28:27):
have all these strict limits.
I haven't reached that myself,but where I mean at least we
have a TV.
My kids are young enough theydo the TV.
Tv we have like an old I don'tknow what's the xbox or
something from when my husbandplayed video games as a teenager
.
So my son has that.
He I think he thinks thatthat's all that exists now, like
he doesn't realize there havebeen upgrades over the decades,
(28:48):
but he's happy with that.
He's never asked for anythingmore.
Other kids will come up to meat play groups like can he play
minecraft?
Or his cousin will saysomething, and I'm like he's
never actually asked me.
So I have my other worries withhim, because he rides dirt
bikes and four wheelers and Ihad to take the dirt bike away
because I'm like, oh my god,you're six years old, you're
driving like a bat out of helland no like you are going to
(29:12):
crash that.
So that's my, the battles thatI'm trying to overcome.
Now it's like they're always.
They're always on a suicidemission, no matter what it is.
It is.
Speaker 2 (29:23):
Parenting is just so incredibly stressful.
I remember, I remember, when Iwas a kid, and you know I'm I'm
40, I am 42, now 41.
And we didn't have the internet, was in its absolute infancy.
Back then my you know, my dadwas quite ahead of you know.
He'd always been interested intechnology.
(29:43):
So we had a family PC at home,probably before anybody else did
, but I was.
I was into books.
I read voraciously as a child.
I picked up reading prettyearly, at about five, and I just
read and read, and read.
And I remember people sayingthat they were concerned for me.
They were worried for mebecause I read all the time and
I wasn't like I did go out andplay outside.
(30:05):
But you know I wasn't playingoutside enough and I wasn't
running around enough and Iwasn't engaging with other
people enough and being socialbecause I just like to curl up
in the corner and read my book.
And so I look back to that andthink, you know, now when I see
my kids reading, I'm like that'sawesome, that's great, and I
have none of the same concernsthat they had back then.
But I think I feel like we justevery generation there's going
(30:27):
to be new things that come upthat parents are concerned about
, or that, where, you know, I dofeel like with with screens,
there are genuine concerns, andthen I also feel like it's a
very easy way for you know, forthe media to manipulate us in
terms of feeling guilty andfeeling scared, and being very
(30:48):
fear-based and and dividingpeople.
You know, the only way you canprotect your kids is if they're
never on screens and, um, you,you know, you have to be the
perfect parent and be presentthe entire time and make sure
that your kids are always doingall of these activities so that
they never need a screen.
And it feels like just an easyway to divide and conquer.
And also, to you know, keep usyeah, keep us fighting amongst
(31:10):
ourselves.
Speaker 1 (31:11):
I suppose and feeling like we're not enough.
Speaker 2 (31:13):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (31:14):
I can.
I can see that too right.
You know I think about likeokay, I have the two kids.
How often am I really likelaying on the floor with them
playing?
It's just not something I'veever joy doing like there are.
My husband is the one that moreplays with them, so I think you
know they have.
They get stuff from other areas,whether it's their friends or
(31:37):
the different parent or the aunt, the uncle, the grandparent, um
, and then there are moms thatdo love playing on the floor
with their kid.
That's just what they like todo, but yeah, it's like no
matter what.
That's so funny that you saythat about your parents were
worried about you because you'realways reading, or people would
be where, like I've always hadthis thing the last couple of
years attending the homeschoolgroups.
My son, if there's a group, hegoes off by himself or he'll
(32:00):
find the younger kids to playwith.
And I'm like, dude, why don'tyou play with the kids your own
age?
What's wrong?
Like what's going on?
I mean for what's wrong?
Like what's going on?
I mean for years.
This was a battle.
I didn't bring you here to playwith the two-year-old when
you're five, like I, why didn'tyou?
But obviously, now that I lookat it and I've talked to more
homeschooling families, I'm likeit's fine that he wants to play
(32:21):
with the two-year-old.
He finds that more comfortablebeing an alpha and the
two-year-old is not going toquestion him or belittle him.
You know he one-on-one, he'sfine with kids his own age or
kids that are older, but it's inthe group setting and he's
getting better.
You know, we were just at acreek day today with the
homeschool family that meetsevery week and like the woods
and the creek kind of like youwere talking about, and, uh, you
(32:43):
know, he was off by himself fora little bit but then he
brought, he was bait tradingwith the boys and he was fishing
with the one kid and you knowso it's like this stuff does
just take time becauseeverybody's personality is so
different and it's it's coolbecause when we homeschool we
can witness this as the parent.
Maybe there, if there is aworry or a concern, you can talk
(33:03):
to them about it, but at schoolthey're just thrown into a
classroom and it's like, well,you all just have to be here
together, whether you like eachother or not, and you know.
So it is really cool that youget to actually watch them.
You know what, what are theirfears?
You know being in a crowd orbeing belittled, or being
bullied, or you know, are youthe?
(33:25):
I always say to them did you dosomething first to get bullied
there?
A reason, because sometimes yousay stuff and mommy gets a
little mad.
And you know, did you saysomething to make them for you
know?
But it's interesting and Idon't do everything right, but
it's cool being there for it alland working through it together
yeah, because then you get to.
Speaker 2 (33:47):
You get to.
I was going to say teach, butit's not the right word because
I don't consider myself ateacher in any capacity.
Um, you get to, you get to.
I was going to say teach, butit's not the right word because
I don't consider myself ateacher in any capacity.
You get to parent andfacilitate what it is that your
child needs at that moment intheir life, which is as much as.
Teachers are beautiful and Iknow that they try their hardest
.
They're still one to twoteachers dealing with 15 to 30
(34:10):
kids and they're just not goingto be able to do that.
And that's why I say, forparents that are considering
homeschooling but they'refeeling scared because they
don't think they're going to beenough, I say to them you know
your child better than anybody.
You are your child's bestadvocate, you love them and you
(34:30):
care about their happiness andtheir outcomes in life.
You're absolutely the bestperson to be able to find out
what they need right now.
Speaker 1 (34:44):
Have you tried the Tuttle Twins books with your
kids yet?
We love them.
In our home, my son plays theaudio book and follows along in
his book.
It lets me get things donewhile we're homeschooling
without missing a beat in hiseducation.
The stories bring history,economics and freedom alive in a
way kids really connect with.
Check out the link in thisepisode's description and use
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(35:07):
Teach your kids about whyindependence matters, why
freedom is worth protecting, andto always stay curious.
Speaker 2 (35:15):
We are our kids' best advocate and we are best placed
to help them live a beautifullife.
And I do also feel you know yousaid before about it was it's
pointless trying to learn someof these things in childhood
when it's taking away from yourchildhood.
And I feel very much that myrole is as a protector of my
(35:39):
kids' childhood and and not in away of trying to stifle them
and keep them in a little bubble, but letting them enjoy their
childhood as much as possible,because they're going to reach
adulthood and they're going tohave to deal with all of the
crap that we deal with and allof the adult decisions and
problems and angst that goeswith that.
(36:01):
Um, and I just feel like I wantto let them enjoy their
childhood for as long aspossible.
And and that's also, you know,one of my reasons for continuing
on the unschooling path isthey're still.
You know they're 11, they're 10and 12,.
They're going to be 11 and 13.
A lot of people I'm seeing Idon't know if this is happening
(36:25):
in America, but I'm seeing inAustralia a lot of people when
they're getting to this age the10, 11 is when they're starting
to want to put their kids inmore structured classes and
activities, even when they'rehomeschooling or they're looking
at going back to some kind ofindependent school sort of thing
.
Because I think the fear iskicking in at that point that if
(36:46):
I don't make sure that they'vegot all of this base level
knowledge, then they're notgoing to be able to get a job
and they're not going to be ableto survive in life.
And my response is they'restill just kids, like they're
still just 10, 11, 12.
And yes, they're.
They're maturing and you know acouple of my daughter's friends
who are 12 are like six foottall and their voices have
(37:07):
dropped, you know, but they'restill just kids.
They still have this, you know,this critical stage of their
childhood left, which is thatpart of maturing into an adult,
and I want them to be able toenjoy themselves and have the
least amount of stress andconcerns for as long as possible
(37:29):
.
It's just you know you spendlong enough in adulthood.
I feel like I don't want topress adulthood down into their
childhood.
Speaker 1 (37:39):
Yeah, someone said to me once that anything your
child needs to know to besuccessful in life, they can
learn in their high school years, and I think that you kind of
talked about that when you saidyou know because you explore
their interests.
It's not like you do nothingall day.
Is this the year that you wantto learn to write, because you
know you might need to write tohave a job someday.
(38:00):
So you know as they get olderand it's only going to be easier
to learn how to write as you'recognitively ready anyways, like
, oh yeah, that's a B.
Well, I know, I use that letterall the time.
I'm going to need to know thatone.
So, yeah, they can learn it.
So they're already findingthings that interest them.
So then, when you get to thosehigh school years, like you said
, you're okay, what do you wantto start selling?
(38:21):
We could start a business, youknow, and, oh, that didn't work
out.
Well, what did we do wrong?
We could switch the product, wecould switch the marketing.
And they're just learning somuch that we, and also what
we're learning in school today,it's like, how are you going to
teach someone at age four?
We start school at age fourhere in America because we have
universal preschool and thenpreschool or preschool and then
(38:45):
nursery school or maybekindergarten, preschool,
kindergarten, first gradethrough 12th grade, and it's
like like how are you teachingkids things that once they are
graduated you don't know whatthe world's going to be like
with the ai and the technologyand all that?
So it is such a waste of time.
Speaker 2 (39:01):
Yeah, because they might not need to know any of
that stuff you look at theadvancement in ai, which,
honestly, you know, I try not befearful but the speed at which
it's happening does scare me alittle bit.
Because you look at last yearand the year before with AI, you
know photos, photos.
You can still reasonably easilytell if it's something that's
been created from AI.
(39:22):
It's an AI image Videos.
Last year it was really easy totell if something was AI or not
.
You know there's too manyfingers their arms aren't moving
right Now this year, like it'sonly 12, 18 months later that
we're seeing AI, that we're alldouble taking on and going oh,
is that a genuine video?
You know, and I've got friendssharing videos of like there's
(39:44):
that one that's doing the roundsat the moment of all the
different animals jumping on thetrampoline.
So there's, like it's meant tobe a, you know, a CCTV video
from outside your house of anighttime shot and it's like the
raccoons jumping on thetrampoline.
And then there's another onewith kangaroos and there's
another one with bunnies andstuff, and one of my friends
shared the kangaroo one theother day and I said I'm pretty
(40:05):
sure this is AI.
Like I've seen this very similarsetup with different animals
about four times in the pastcouple of weeks, but that's the
only way that I really picked upthat it was AI, because the
video itself looks so believableand, yeah, for our kids by the
time they are, even for myeldest, by the time she
(40:27):
graduates and, you know, is anadult, that's five years from
now.
We're going to be in such adifferent world where so many
things are going to be run by AI, and I think actually the
benefit of it is it's going toincrease the value of
face-to-face interactions andface-to-face businesses and just
(40:50):
person-to-person humaninteractions, I think, are going
to become so much moreimportant because it's going to
be the only way that you cangenuinely tell that a person is
genuine by seeing them actuallyin the flesh.
So I think that that's going tobe a really good silver lining
to all of this.
Speaker 1 (41:08):
Yeah, it's almost like they're pushing it so much,
so fast, that people will pullback and, yeah, find your local
farmers and go to your localfarmers markets and go to the
park and that stuff.
I agree, okay, last questionhere reporting.
Do you?
You mentioned a little bit inthe beginning of, like, what you
have to report.
How do you report as ahomeschooler?
Speaker 2 (41:30):
So homeschooling is a legal option in australia and
we did have to fight.
They brought in somelegislation last year in my
state, in queensland, where theywanted to um change
homeschooling so that you had tocomply with the australian.
So there's an Australian-widecurriculum.
(41:50):
Now that's not so bad, becauseit's not super hard to comply
with that.
But they did bring in someother concerning aspects of like
you needing to prove thathomeschooling was in the best
interest of your child, and thatwas very conveniently vague and
that really, really concernedme because at the moment there's
three choices for education inAustralia you can be registered
(42:13):
at a public school, you can beregistered in a private school
or you can be registered inevery state for home education
and then distance ed is kind ofin the middle there, because
you're registered with a schoolbut you're doing it at home.
If we now say thathomeschooling is something that
you have to prove is in the bestinterest of your child, we're
now saying that homeschooling isnot an equal legal choice, the
(42:36):
same as the other ones.
It's now something special andwho do I have to prove that to
and what kind of governmentofficial is going to be making
that decision about me and myfamily, and that was one of the
very, like you know, thosesneaky ones that they it's way
down buried down the back hereof like.
Just this random little pieceof thing that I was really
(42:56):
concerned was going to become amassive thing, and partly
because it had no informationabout how this was going to be
implemented or who was going tobe making that decision for you.
Um, and when that legislationwas brought in in Queensland,
the Labor government at the timehad the majority so they could
have actually just pushed itthrough, and Queensland's kind
(43:18):
of like California.
They put stuff through here inQueensland first as their
testing ground, and what happensin Queensland then sort of
rolls out to the rest of thecountry.
And so there was conversationsthat we got back from political
channels that this was thetesting ground, that we're going
to put this through inQueensland, and then they were
going to roll it out in a lot ofthe other states and
particularly because you knowLabor's kind of equivalent to
(43:40):
Democrats over here that theywere going to roll that out in
other states as well.
And the basis of that was achild who had been in the school
system had been removed fromthe school system and was then
homeschooling, and there was alot of bullying and mental
health issues happening.
The child was in the mentalhealth ward and mentioned to one
of the counsellors there thathe wished he was back at school
(44:03):
because, although homeschoolingwas protecting him from the
bullying, he was missing hisschool friends.
And unfortunately that child Ithink he was about 12, he went
on to commit suicide, which isso tragic.
But the concern then becamethat he was homeschooled when
that happened, which is notlooking at the whole picture at
all and so that became the basisof wanting to place these extra
(44:29):
restrictions and extravisibility supposedly on
homeschoolers, despite the factthat they don't actually have
the budget to be able to do that, to like come out and inspect
everybody's learning environmentand that kind of thing.
So we were able to have thatlegislation stopped.
And then there was an electioncoming up and the other party
won and they promised us if theywon that they would put that
(44:50):
legislation in.
And then there was an electioncoming up and the other party
won and they promised us if theywon that they would put that
legislation in the drawer.
Basically, and all they haveimplemented as changes are
actually really positive changesthat we needed.
So there's differentrequirements across different
states in Australia.
In Queensland, where I am,you're registered with the Home
(45:10):
Education Unit, which is part ofthe Department of Education.
It is compulsory to beregistered for some form of
education by the time a child issix and a half.
In Queensland there are 11,000registered homeschoolers in
Queensland as of last year.
That will have gone up thisyear.
It's estimated that that isonly about a quarter of the
(45:31):
actual homeschoolers and thatthere is probably about 30,000
unregistered homeschoolers inQueensland.
So then, if you extrapolatethat across Australia, we've got
40,000 registered homeschoolersin Australia.
So actually it's probably morelike 100,000 homeschoolers in
Australia.
So lots of families areunregistered.
But if you are registered, it'sfairly easy as it stands to be
(45:54):
able to translate, especiallywith AI, to be able to translate
everything that you're doing inyour life into the edu-speak
that they want to see, to beable to see you know how your
child is is progressing, and allyou are required to do in
Queensland is provide your childwith a quality education, so
(46:16):
they want to see how you, as theparent, are striving to support
your child and to teach yourchild some things.
Um, you know they're not lookingto see that the child has made
this massive level ofimprovement or that the child is
at this particular grade level.
We're not required to do testsor anything like that.
But in our reporting processthey want us to do two samples,
(46:39):
for example, where we say thefirst sample is the child at
this point in time, for theirwriting, for example, and then
they want us to explain what wedid to support the child and
then to see a second sample, youknow, from later in the year or
whenever, to show what theimprovements are.
And it's mainly just for us asthe parent, to be able to prove
(47:02):
that we understand what we'redoing and that we are actively
supporting the child.
That's actually all they'relooking for.
They're not looking for thechild to be at a grade level
passed a test, anything likethat.
So homeschooling in Australiaand that's very similar across
the states Some of the stateswhen you put your plan in for
(47:24):
the year, they will do either anonline or an in-person visit
for an assessment and aninterview.
In Queensland we don't havethat at the moment, but
homeschooling in Australia isrelatively easy, like it's not
super onerous.
It's not, you know, you're notrequired to submit a whole bunch
of paperwork.
It's actually yeah, it's quitegood right now and we'd like to
(47:48):
keep it that way.
Speaker 1 (47:50):
Yeah, it's quite good right now and we'd like to keep
it that way.
Yeah, exactly, and I couldn'thelp but think, when you said
about the tragic story with thekid committing suicide, it's
like, okay, that's one case of ahomeschooler.
How many kids in the schoolsystem commit suicide?
And who do they have to proveanything to?
I mean, that should be parentslining up at the door then and
saying you have to prove to usthat you have a safe environment
(48:13):
here.
You know, um, cause, like yousaid, it either has to do with
the homeschool and if it does,then it has to do with the
school when it happens to aschool student, or it didn't
have anything to do with theschool and he was on social
media and maybe even beinggroomed by the ai.
And you know, because there issome crazy stuff going on right
now, I follow this ladyscrolling to death and she
(48:35):
always has this stuff about,like kids being groomed online
where it's telling them to killthemselves.
I mean, it slowly works in aslike, oh, do you want to talk to
, you know, ginger?
And you know a 13 year oldboy's like, yeah, sure, but
she's not real, it's AI, andthey're forming this friendship
almost with this child.
(48:56):
And then, and I don't knowwhat's behind that I haven't
researched it at all, but enoughpeople have complained about it
, so it's like, yeah, what ishappening?
It's either in the home itself,which the kids homeschooled, and
the kids in school go home.
So it's, you know, it hasnothing to do with the education
part, the school's not going tosave that kid, but it happens
in the public school system topublic school kids, private
(49:16):
school kids, all the time.
So why should one have to provethemselves and the other one
doesn't?
It doesn't make any sense.
But, debbie, thank you so muchfor chatting with me today.
This has been awesome.
Do you have any links oranything that you wanted to
mention where people couldfollow you?
Because, since you do do thisfor your line of work, yeah, so
for families in Australia, weare the Village Hub.
Speaker 2 (49:39):
We're in Queensland.
Like I have a physical locationin Queensland.
We're halfway between Brisbaneand the Gold Coast.
I'm actually running an expo atthe end of this month.
I'm actually running an expo atthe end of this month and I
don't know why they've rocked upright now and I also do
unschooling coaching forfamilies across Australia and
New Zealand mainly.
But yeah, you can look us up onsocial media.
(50:01):
The Village Hub.
We're quite a unique setup whenit comes to we're one of the
only unschooling-friendlyhomeschool sort of drop-off
programs Australia really.
And we also have, you know,workstations and offices for
parents to be able to work inwhile the kids are playing.
So we're like that sort of onestop shop.
And, yeah, we just love, welove supporting homeschool
(50:22):
families and families to comeinto homeschooling and to be
able to make sure that it'sviable for them and that they
feel connected and part of theircommunity.
Speaker 1 (50:34):
And yeah, it's beautiful, we love it.
Oh, that's so great.
I can link that stuff in theshow's description so people can
easily check it out there.
Debbie, thank you so much forchatting with me today.
This has been a pleasure, thankyou for having me.
Thank you for tuning into thisweek's episode of the homeschool
how to.
If you've enjoyed what youheard and you'd like to
(50:56):
contribute to the show, pleaseconsider leaving a small tip
using the link in my show'sdescription.
Or, if you'd rather, please usethe link in the description to
share this podcast with a friendor on your favorite homeschool
group facebook page.
Any effort to help us keep thepodcast going is greatly
appreciated.
Thank you for tuning in and foryour love of the next
generation.
Welcome to this week's episode of the Homeschool
How-To.
I'm Cheryl and I invite you tojoin me on my quest to find out
why are people homeschooling,how do you do it, how does it
differ from region to region,and should I homeschool my kids?
Stick with me as I interviewhomeschooling families across
the country to unfold theanswers to each of these
(00:26):
questions week by week.
Welcome, and with us today Ihave Debbie from Australia.
Debbie, welcome.
What time of day is it there?
Speaker 2 (00:39):
Thanks for having me.
It's 10 o'clock in the morninghere in Australia and I think
I'm a day in front of you.
Speaker 1 (00:44):
All right, don't tell me what happens.
Yeah, it's eight at night here,so that's, that's so fun.
I have a friend that went toAustralia in college to study
abroad.
She loved it.
They're like actually I'm soAmerican right now, I'm sorry.
They're actually kangaroos thathop around.
Yeah, totally Totally totallythat's so cool.
(01:06):
We have like uh, I don't knowcockroaches here in new york,
but no, I'm kidding.
So, all right, tell me, how didyou enter this homeschooling
world?
Is it legal?
It's legal in australia tohomeschool, right?
Yeah, it is a hundred percentgermany germany?
It is not, but I I believethere in one other place isn't
all right, so tell us how didyou enter this world?
Speaker 2 (01:22):
I was actually homeschooled for part of my
schooling career.
I went to school traditionalschool, here in Australia until
I was nine or ten, and then mymum fell very ill.
I thought she had a stroke.
She was eventually diagnosedwith multiple sclerosis and just
because dad needed to keepworking, they decided that it
was easier to homeschool myselfand my brother, and so we lived
(01:46):
in New South Wales at the timeand so I did the Australian
grade six and grade seventhrough.
Each each state has its ownrequirements.
This was obviously 20 years ago, but I did grade six and seven
through New South Wales, whichwas very.
You build your own curriculumand then you have the assessor
come and interview you and thenyou just, you know, do your own
(02:10):
thing day by day.
And then we moved to Queenslandand back then the only way you
could homeschool in Queenslandwas to do distance education,
which is where the teachers arein a location and they're
delivering the curriculum, andso I did that for grade eight,
nine and 10.
But back then, like pre-internet, it was very easy to just.
(02:31):
You know, everything was ashard copy.
You just completed all of yourwork and sent it back whenever
you were ready to send it back,and so I had lots of time to be
out with friends.
I had a job from the time I was14.
So I was working, so I wasworking and, like I was working
in an office environment, andthen on the days I wasn't
working, completing myschoolwork, and so I actually
(02:54):
think that gave me a reallygreat basis for ending up
becoming a homeschooling parent,because I got to experience
both ways of homeschooling, eventhough that's quite different.
Now.
The distance education thing isall delivered online and you
have to be there in person forthe whole.
Well, not in person, you've gotto be there online physically
for the whole day, which Ireally don't agree with.
I really struggle with thatschool at home kind of thing.
(03:17):
But we are very muchhomeschoolers and in fact we're
unschoolers, and I didn't thinkwhen I first had kids that I
would homeschool.
I had this plan that they wouldgo to private school, and then,
as the years kind of rolled on,I realized that actually
homeschooling was going to be areally good option, and that was
partly just from starting toquestion all the systems.
(03:38):
You know, I had a cesarean withmy first child, which turned out
to be an unnecessary cesarean,and so then I went on to have a
home birth with my second childand, you know, once you realize
that the doctors in the hospitalwere just operating under their
system and they weren'toperating in your best interests
and they were just doing all oftheir procedures and protocols
and you didn't really matter asan individual in the process,
(04:02):
once I started to question thatsystem, and then you know, come
across other information andthen it becomes easier to start
questioning all of the othersystems and go down all the
other rabbit holes.
So by the time my second childwas a year or two old, I was
pretty confident that we weregoing to homeschool and knowing
that so many of the countriesthat have really high
(04:22):
educational outcomes don't doany book work until seven or
eight years old, that was reallyeasy to go.
Okay, we're just going tounschool for the first couple of
years and we're just going toplay and focus on that and then
we'll look at, you know,bringing in some actual
educational stuff later on inthe piece.
So yeah, that's how we ended updown that track.
Speaker 1 (04:42):
Yeah, it's upsetting that the medical system in
Australia is no different thanin America.
I would hope that that you know.
Okay, it's America,everything's so commercialized.
The Rockefellers wrote themedical books but it's like how
did those medical books maketheir way to Australia?
You think you know like there?
Would just be more alternativemethods there we do have.
Speaker 2 (05:04):
I will say we do have a better system than in america
because we have free healthcare in australia.
So our medicare is you know youcan go to a bulk bill doctor
and it's free.
If you're sick and you go to apublic hospital, you know that's
free.
You can be pregnant and gothrough the public hospital
system and it's almost free.
(05:26):
And then of course you canchoose to go private.
We do have also really goodaccess reasonable access, I
would say to home birth inAustralia.
There's quite a lot of privatemidwives and doulas and that
kind of thing and home birth islegal in all states.
In Australia, you know, they dotry and put more restrictions
(05:47):
on home birth and now you haveto have two midwives attend
every home birth and then that'shard in rural areas because
it's hard to actually get twomidwives to, you know, sustain a
business out there or to travelto you.
So there are things that suckand aren't great.
There are things that that suckand aren't great, but overall
we do have better access thanAmerica.
But our intervention rates inpregnancy and birth are super,
(06:12):
duper high.
Our cesarean rates are superhigh.
Rates of complication are superhigh.
Yeah, we, we do.
Australia follows America in alot of things, a lot of things.
Speaker 1 (06:24):
That's unfortunate.
And yeah, my second was acesarean and I always wondered,
now that I know what I know, I'mlike did she have to be?
They told me that the placentawas like covering where she was
going to come out and I wouldjust hemorrhage and die and I'm
like all right, cut her out.
But now I'm like I wonder, Idon't know that when you're
going through all the hormonesand stuff, you're I throw my
(06:46):
hands up after certain things,like fine, whatever, I put up
the vaccine fight.
But I was like just all right,cut her out.
Now I wonder, you know, maybewe could have like tried and
then do an emergency C-sectionif necessary, but they didn't
even want to do that.
But you know, whatever youcan't live in the past you
learned from from whatever youdidn't share your story, so
(07:06):
other people know with mydaughter as well.
Speaker 2 (07:08):
You know she was a cesarean and I know that I just
was in early labor and I went tohospital too early and they
broke my waters and they put askull clip on her and they had
me lying on my back and she wasposterior and I was like there's
no way she's going.
She wasn't engaged.
There is no way, looking back,knowing what I know now, that
(07:31):
that baby was going to be ableto come out and I ended up
having an epidural and it just Ican see how the cascade of
interventions happened for me.
But at the same time I realizedthat that was probably a really
important turning point in mylife because if that hadn't
happened to me, I wouldn't havethen gone down the track of
(07:51):
going.
Okay, I think I want to have ahome birth because I really want
to have a VBAC and that's theway that I think I can achieve
that.
And I ended up in VBAC groups,where then people were talking
about, you know, and Facebookgroups were in the infancy back
then.
But that was when I was able toget in some breastfeeding
support groups and VBAC supportgroups and just come across a
(08:13):
whole lot of alternativeinformation that I wasn't
getting from anybody that I hadseen previously in the medical
system.
So, you know, off track ofhomeschooling.
But that's how I found out thatmy daughter had a tongue tie and
just went down all of thosepaths that ultimately have led
me to where I am right now,which is, you know, operating
(08:33):
outside the system.
Like we, I'm here to create thenew systems, the new ways of
being, all of the alternativesthat are viable and sustainable
and nourishing and nurturing forfamilies.
So you know, I actually have.
I have my, my business and my,my homeschool co-op that I was
talking to you about, but I alsohave another business where I
support families inbreastfeeding and tongue tying,
(08:55):
all of that kind of things.
You know as much as, for mydaughter's sake, I would love
for her to have not been bornvia cesarean.
I do think that maybe that wasour sole plan for her and I,
that she would come into theworld this way, and then it
would, you know, take me fromtracking down this fairly
mainstream path and just off onthis like completely side path,
(09:17):
which has just led to anabsolutely incredible life for
all of us.
Speaker 1 (09:21):
Yeah, and you know you say it doesn't have anything
to do with homeschooling, but Ithink it does, because the
school system trained you tojust believe authority and don't
question it, and that's that.
It's exactly what we're tryingto.
Not teach our kids inhomeschool is no, you don't have
to question authority, youdon't have to.
You know, you can say, oh,that's a good point of view.
(09:42):
Let me look at some otherpoints of view, because yeah, we
didn't learn that in school.
Speaker 2 (09:47):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
And when I run a homeschoolworkshop and I start out telling
the story about the cesareanbecause that really for me was
the point and it wasn't even atthat point, because then I
believed that I needed it andthat the doctors had done
everything that they could andet cetera.
And it was only after I joinedthose groups and started talking
(10:09):
to people that it dawned on meand people were saying to me the
doctors are not necessarilythere for your best interests
and they're not treating you asan individual person and et
cetera.
And the number of parallelsbetween the medical system and
the school system is huge.
And that, you know, was thefirst.
(10:30):
That was the first step in myde-schooling journey to start to
question authority that way.
That then led me to be able tostart to question authority in
other ways.
And, you know, despite beinghomeschooled myself, my parents
were, you know, a fairly strictreligious background and they
were very much.
Everybody else is the authority, you know.
The doctors are the authority,the police are the authority,
(10:51):
every other person outside ofour family is the authority.
Yeah, so, despite having a fairbit of freedom in my childhood
in how I was learning,everything was still very
mainstream from that perspective.
So it wasn't until.
You know, I often say it's,it's sucks, but we often have to
get screwed over by the systembefore we start questioning it
(11:14):
and going hang on a minute.
That was really horrible.
I don't want to do that again.
And then we go down a differentpath and start researching and,
you know, doing different ways.
Speaker 1 (11:25):
Most of us that guy here were mainstream.
At one time we didn't have thehippie parents that.
Ironically, the hippie parentsnow seem to be the people
getting the COVID shots and thisand that so I don't know what
the heck.
The world flipped upside down.
Speaker 2 (11:40):
Yeah, all right.
Speaker 1 (11:41):
So you said that you do some unschooling.
Now, how old are your kids?
Speaker 2 (11:45):
My eldest is nearly 13.
My middle child is nearly 11.
And my youngest just turnedfour yesterday.
Speaker 1 (11:51):
OK.
So you said places like and Iknow you're talking about like
Finland, they have verysuccessful rates of you know,
education and you know just howkids turn out.
They don't start any sort ofbook work until they're in seven
years old.
So you said you started outearly homeschooling or
unschooling because you didn'treally have to do any sort of
(12:13):
formal book work.
But once you got to that ageseven, were you like no, we're
actually learning a lot.
We can keep going with this?
Speaker 2 (12:19):
Yeah, absolutely yeah .
So I, you know, I startedfollowing people like Dana
Martin and some of the other youknow unschooling advocates and,
yeah, it got so easy.
Another similarity it was likebreastfeeding I'm going to
breastfeed until they're one.
And then you got to one andyou're like, oh, I could totally
go until they're two.
And then you got to two andyou're like, well, they're still
(12:40):
so tiny, I'll just go untilthey're three.
Unschooling was exactly the same, because we got to seven and I
was like they're learning heapsthrough just living life and
following their interests, andwe could totally keep doing this
for another year or two and,you know, maybe when they get to
10, I'll start introducingsomething.
And now, you know, I actuallyoffer unschooling coaching for
mums in Australia because mykids are, you know, older and so
(13:05):
you know I'm supporting mumswho are coming in whose kids are
a little bit younger.
And I get the concern becauseit was my same concern when my
kids were younger that oh,they'll definitely need some
kind of book work to make surethat they're up to scratch and
they'll definitely need me to beenforcing something on them,
otherwise they're going to be,you know, failing at life.
And as I went further andfurther down the path of
(13:28):
trusting them and trustingmyself, trusting that they will
learn what they need to learnwhen they need to learn it.
You know my kids areflourishing in life and loving
life, just following theirinterests, spending time with
their friends.
My son, my middle child, waslate to learn to read,
(13:49):
comparatively to, you know, hispeers in school.
But I have a firm belief now,not just from my son but from
all of the kids that I see inunschooling groups, which is,
you know, if you think about it,unschooling groups are the only
place where you know, maybesome homeschooling mainly,
unschooling groups are the placewhere we can see what a child
(14:13):
is going to learn naturally,without being forced to learn it
.
Because everywhere else acrossthe world in the school system,
we're putting kids in school atage five or six and we're
teaching them to read, becausewe've got a classroom of 30 kids
and we've got one teacher andmaybe a teacher aid, and if the
kids can't read, then we can'tget all of these kids to do the
(14:34):
bookwork that we need to getthem to do to prove, all the way
up the line of the system, thatwe're teaching these kids
something because that's youknow, the whole system is
predicated on.
I've got to prove to myprincipal and we've got to prove
to the parents and the schoolboard and the education
department that we're teachingthese kids something.
So we've got to get them to dosome book work.
(14:55):
And in order to get them to dothe book work, they've got to
know how to read and they've gotto be able to do it themselves.
Because we don't have thecapacity to support them
one-to-one or to support theirindividual learning needs or the
way that they want to learn.
And so everybody has to learnto read at five or six, even if
that's not actually what they're, you know, developmentally
(15:16):
ready for.
And I now firmly believe thatgirls will naturally learn to
read between five and seven.
Boys are more like six to eight, maybe nine years old, and
that's really common in theunschooling groups that when
they do a poll, the boys all arelater to pick up reading.
And I do wonder I don't know ifit's the same in America but is
(15:38):
this why we have generations ofmen who don't like reading?
Because they were forced toread too early and it killed
their love of reading?
Speaker 1 (15:47):
Yeah, I definitely think so, Thinking about
homeschooling but don't knowwhere to start.
Well, I've interviewed a fewpeople on the topic Actually 120
interviews at this point withhomeschooling families from
across the country and the worldand what I've done is I've
packed everything I've learnedinto an ebook called the
Homeschool How-To CompleteStarter Guide.
From navigating your state'slaws to finding your
(16:08):
homeschooling style, fromworking while homeschooling to
supporting kids with specialneeds, this guide covers it all
with real stories from realfamilies who've walked this path
.
I've taken the best insights,the best resources and put them
all into this guide.
Stop feeling overwhelmed andstart feeling confident.
Get your copy of the Homeschoolhow To Complete Starter Guide
today and discover thathomeschooling isn't just about
(16:31):
education.
It's about getting what youwant out of each day, not what
somebody else wants out of you.
You can grab the link to thisebook in the show's description
or head on over tothehomeschoolhowtocom Now.
So what does your day-to-daylook like?
You're not enforcing anything,but are you like reading to the
kids what is your day-to-daytypically?
Speaker 2 (16:51):
Well, we run a modern co-op which is unschooling
friendly, so we do a lot offree-flowing activities.
We do kind of science-basedactivities, stem-based
activities, but none of them arein any way enforced or it's not
obligatory for the kids toparticipate in them.
So my kids do that two days aweek with me, so they're
(17:15):
spending time with their friends.
You know we've got a heatedswimming pool, we've got the big
play equipment.
We've got this really you knowkids wonderland kind of space
set up where the kids can justplay.
We've got a creek that runsthrough the back and the kids
hang out down there.
So we do that a couple of daysa week and then my kids and
(17:36):
myself certainly we need somedowntime after those.
You know big days where we'resocializing.
You know, on days when we'renot running the hub, that's when
we'll have, you know, kind ofchill out days like it's 1030
here.
My eldest child was up until Idon't know sometime after
midnight crafting.
She's still asleep.
My middle child is up until Idon't know sometime after
midnight crafting.
She's still asleep.
(17:56):
My middle child is up.
I think he's on a video callwith his friend from Sydney and
they might be doing some gamingtogether.
My youngest child has gone offfor a walk to the park with his
friend and a mum my other friend, and you know today we'll just
have like a quiet day, justchill out.
At home I tend to do a lot ofreading with the kids when
(18:17):
they're younger.
My eldest kids I don't reallyread to them as much these days,
um, but we do a fair bit of um,you know, we love chatting when
we're driving.
We you know off to go placesand we have really great chats
in the car.
And, um, you know off to goplaces and we have really great
chats in the car.
And you know, hanging outwatching, just really fun stuff,
(18:38):
like you know we love watchingDo Perfect and trick shot videos
and all kinds of stuff that youknow.
When we're then experimentingand trying stuff at home is, all
you know, fulfilling aspects ofthe curriculum and physics and
science and all kinds of stufflike that.
But none of it is me saying tothem okay, you really need to
learn about this.
(18:59):
But we do have conversationswhere, you know, my kids are of
an age now where they couldstart to think about having a
job in a couple of years time,and so you know, I talked to my
son because he can read but hisspelling's not great, and so I
talked to him about that only ina really casual way to say, hey
, like, is that something youwant to work on this year?
(19:20):
Tell me, what are the thingsthat you'd like to work on, what
things do you feel like youdon't know yet, that you want to
learn some more about, and thenwe, you know, go down the track
of learning that way, at themoment, what we're talking about
, their grandfather bought a 3Dprinter and they're loving
seeing what he's creating, andso we're talking about buying a
(19:41):
3D printer later in the year sothat they can start business,
and they both my two older kidshave some really firm but really
different ideas on what theywant to create and sell, and we
have lots of active homeschoolmarkets and kids markets around
here, so they actually thinkthat that more so than getting a
job.
My middle child in particularvery entrepreneurial, you know
(20:04):
he's really going to excel athaving his own business, I think
, rather than working for anyone, and so I think that that in
the next year or two, willactually develop a lot of skills
for them in, you know,budgeting and marketing and even
writing and spelling and all ofthat kind of stuff that you
know, if you were to look atthose things in comparison to
(20:28):
their school peers, they wouldbe behind in at the moment.
But I think a lot of unschoolingkids you know that they're a
little bit ahead in this thing,but they're a little bit behind
in this thing and then when theyget out into adulthood,
actually they've still got allthe skills that they need.
Even though they picked up athing at 16 that another kid was
(20:48):
being taught in school at 11years old, they still actually
end up with everything that theyneed.
And I know quite a reasonablenumber of unschooled adults who
are absolutely thriving andloving their lives and not in
any way feeling that they are.
You know that they wereshortchanged in their education
because they were able to justpick things up when they needed
(21:10):
to learn things when they neededto, and I mean honestly the
internet now, like you can learnanything whenever you want to
just access some tutorials.
Speaker 1 (21:20):
You know Right.
I did not know anything aboutpodcasting before I started and
you learn all that stuff alongthe way.
You learn how to.
I didn't know anything aboutpublishing a book.
I learned all that from theinternet, or you know or taking
a course.
People sell online courses allthe time and you know so.
Yes, there are so many otherways to learn, and when it's
(21:41):
actually relevant to your lifeis when it sticks.
Do we all need to knowPythagorean's theorem?
You know, are you ever going touse this stuff?
I had a teacher that Iinterviewed I just released that
episode last week and Angelaand she said I was a teacher and
they'd asked me Ms Harters,when are we going to need to use
this?
And she said I was honest,you're never going to need this.
I'm so sorry.
(22:02):
I had to take a precious timefrom your childhood and you
could be out playing and youknow being in nature to sit here
and talk to you about cosigns.
Oh it is.
It is crazy when we think aboutit now.
Ok, so how, how do you managetechnology as someone who
understands clearly that thereis a system out there and you
(22:23):
know they're against us?
There is a, you know, probablyan elite group running the world
.
They're using technology, butyou know there's a fine line
between also shielding your kidsfrom it forever and not
teaching them how to use it.
You know it's like that kidthat never got to drink alcohol
and goes to college and getswasted every day and can't
handle it, you know.
(22:44):
So how does it work in yourhousehold?
So?
Speaker 2 (22:46):
we're.
It's funny because when Istarted, way back when my son
was really little, it was thefirst time I came across dana,
dana Martin and I watched herinterview on 60 Minutes in
Australia and I was like, wow,that's really really out there,
like her kids don't have abedtime and they were living out
in the middle of the woods aswell, and she seemed really
really out there and I realizedthat like 10 years later, I'm
(23:07):
there, I'm in that place now,and so we're.
We're very much a radicalunschooling family now, so we
don't actually have I so we'revery much a radical unschooling
family now, so we don't actuallyhave I'm going to say this
phrase and then I'm going toclarify it we don't have any
real limits on screen time Now.
We do have some limits becausethere's various games that my
son isn't allowed to get or play.
(23:28):
We have those conversationsabout whether that's an
appropriate game for him to playat this age and you know, no,
that's not.
We're going to leave that untilyou're older.
We have some pretty strictrules around when they're
playing online that they're onlyplaying with talking to
friending in the games, kidsthat they know in real life, and
(23:48):
so you know we have.
I'm really grateful that in ourhomeschool community we have,
you know, a fairly tight knitgroup of mums and our kids.
When they're playing together.
They are playing.
They're on like video chat witheach other outside of the game,
so they're using messenger kidsor something like that to talk
to each other and we're alwaysaround, you know, so we're
(24:08):
always behind them and passingby and sitting in the same room
and so on, so all of us are ableto keep an eye on what games
they're playing, who they'replaying with, how they're
interacting with each other, and, honestly, the amount that they
learn just from doing that andplaying those games is
phenomenal, like the socialdevelopment and the teamwork and
(24:30):
the leadership and negotiatingand conflict resolution the
skills that they've picked upfrom doing those kinds of things
is just phenomenal, really.
And also, you know, I have twosort of sides of feelings about
the internet.
The first is, you know, yeah, Idon't want my kids being
(24:52):
exposed to stuff that they'renot developmentally ready for
and being exposed to stuff orbeing, you know, influenced in
negative ways.
And I also know that I don'twant to be approaching
everything with fear, becausethat's just going to make it
worse.
And I want my kids to be reallywell equipped because they are
the generation where screens,technology, ai is going to be
(25:15):
dominant in their lives mostlikely.
I mean, unless they do manageto go and live in a beautiful
little commune out in the forestsomewhere, they're probably
going to have it dominating alot of their lives and I want
them to be really well equippedfor that and I want them to feel
confident about it.
I don't want them to feelfearful like they.
(25:36):
You know, for example and Ihave nothing against this, but
if I was to completely restrictscreens until they're much older
and then they're just launchedinto it, like your example with
college, you know, then we're,you know they don't have any
skills and they haven't beenable to develop that over time.
(25:57):
And so you know, already I'vebeen able to have good chats
with my kids about.
You know, there are peopleonline that might pretend that
they're being kids in a game butactually they're not and
they're an adult and they're notsafe.
And you know, we've hadconversations about sextortion
and kidnapping, and people thatyou know use any kind of avenue
(26:18):
to be able to access kids andtalk to them and find out where
they live.
And so it's really coolactually to see my kids, you
know, because they do a bit ofcontent creation, like my
daughter writes full skits, fullpieces and has her friends act
out all of the parts and thenshe edits it and all that kind
of thing.
But it was very, very cool tosee how like well educated they
(26:42):
are on protecting themselves.
You know, like if they'reonline in a game, they know not
to use their friend's real nameand they all have screen names
and they all use their screennames with each other.
And you know my daughter wassharing some travel photos from
when we were overseas and sheknew to blur out her little
brother's face.
You know, even though I'veshared his face in a few places
(27:04):
on, you know, for when we'redoing, you know, our co-op sort
of stuff, I share it.
But you know it's really cool tosee how automatic that is for
them and how good they are withjust being savvy and being aware
, even at the age that they'reat, when stuff pops up that's
dodgy or that's, you know, thatperson's not great or that
(27:26):
person's using swear words orwhatever it is, and then they
know to get out of thatsituation.
So you know, I'm not sayingthat our approach is perfect by
any means, but it's working forus at the moment and my approach
is always we'll do what worksuntil it doesn't work and then
we'll figure out a different way.
If this thing's not working,then we'll look at it and we'll
(27:49):
try something else, and if thatthing doesn't work, then we'll
try something else and we'lljust keep going until we find,
you know, something that doeswork for all of us as a family
yeah, and I think that the factthat they're taking it seriously
says a lot too.
Speaker 1 (28:03):
You know, oh, we're going to use these screen names,
we're going to blur out hisface.
They're not just like it's mombeing crazy again.
You know they're taking itseriously that, yeah, yeah,
stuff like this does happen andyou know we're going to try to
mitigate that the best we canbecause, yeah, you can't really
shield them from everything.
I give props to the familiesthat do not do screens at all,
(28:27):
have all these strict limits.
I haven't reached that myself,but where I mean at least we
have a TV.
My kids are young enough theydo the TV.
Tv we have like an old I don'tknow what's the xbox or
something from when my husbandplayed video games as a teenager
.
So my son has that.
He I think he thinks thatthat's all that exists now, like
he doesn't realize there havebeen upgrades over the decades,
(28:48):
but he's happy with that.
He's never asked for anythingmore.
Other kids will come up to meat play groups like can he play
minecraft?
Or his cousin will saysomething, and I'm like he's
never actually asked me.
So I have my other worries withhim, because he rides dirt
bikes and four wheelers and Ihad to take the dirt bike away
because I'm like, oh my god,you're six years old, you're
driving like a bat out of helland no like you are going to
(29:12):
crash that.
So that's my, the battles thatI'm trying to overcome.
Now it's like they're always.
They're always on a suicidemission, no matter what it is.
It is.
Speaker 2 (29:23):
Parenting is just so incredibly stressful.
I remember, I remember, when Iwas a kid, and you know I'm I'm
40, I am 42, now 41.
And we didn't have the internet, was in its absolute infancy.
Back then my you know, my dadwas quite ahead of you know.
He'd always been interested intechnology.
(29:43):
So we had a family PC at home,probably before anybody else did
, but I was.
I was into books.
I read voraciously as a child.
I picked up reading prettyearly, at about five, and I just
read and read, and read.
And I remember people sayingthat they were concerned for me.
They were worried for mebecause I read all the time and
I wasn't like I did go out andplay outside.
(30:05):
But you know I wasn't playingoutside enough and I wasn't
running around enough and Iwasn't engaging with other
people enough and being socialbecause I just like to curl up
in the corner and read my book.
And so I look back to that andthink, you know, now when I see
my kids reading, I'm like that'sawesome, that's great, and I
have none of the same concernsthat they had back then.
But I think I feel like we justevery generation there's going
(30:27):
to be new things that come upthat parents are concerned about
, or that, where, you know, I dofeel like with with screens,
there are genuine concerns, andthen I also feel like it's a
very easy way for you know, forthe media to manipulate us in
terms of feeling guilty andfeeling scared, and being very
(30:48):
fear-based and and dividingpeople.
You know, the only way you canprotect your kids is if they're
never on screens and, um, you,you know, you have to be the
perfect parent and be presentthe entire time and make sure
that your kids are always doingall of these activities so that
they never need a screen.
And it feels like just an easyway to divide and conquer.
And also, to you know, keep usyeah, keep us fighting amongst
(31:10):
ourselves.
Speaker 1 (31:11):
I suppose and feeling like we're not enough.
Speaker 2 (31:13):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (31:14):
I can.
I can see that too right.
You know I think about likeokay, I have the two kids.
How often am I really likelaying on the floor with them
playing?
It's just not something I'veever joy doing like there are.
My husband is the one that moreplays with them, so I think you
know they have.
They get stuff from other areas,whether it's their friends or
(31:37):
the different parent or the aunt, the uncle, the grandparent, um
, and then there are moms thatdo love playing on the floor
with their kid.
That's just what they like todo, but yeah, it's like no
matter what.
That's so funny that you saythat about your parents were
worried about you because you'realways reading, or people would
be where, like I've always hadthis thing the last couple of
years attending the homeschoolgroups.
My son, if there's a group, hegoes off by himself or he'll
(32:00):
find the younger kids to playwith.
And I'm like, dude, why don'tyou play with the kids your own
age?
What's wrong?
Like what's going on?
I mean for what's wrong?
Like what's going on?
I mean for years.
This was a battle.
I didn't bring you here to playwith the two-year-old when
you're five, like I, why didn'tyou?
But obviously, now that I lookat it and I've talked to more
homeschooling families, I'm likeit's fine that he wants to play
(32:21):
with the two-year-old.
He finds that more comfortablebeing an alpha and the
two-year-old is not going toquestion him or belittle him.
You know he one-on-one, he'sfine with kids his own age or
kids that are older, but it's inthe group setting and he's
getting better.
You know, we were just at acreek day today with the
homeschool family that meetsevery week and like the woods
and the creek kind of like youwere talking about, and, uh, you
(32:43):
know, he was off by himself fora little bit but then he
brought, he was bait tradingwith the boys and he was fishing
with the one kid and you knowso it's like this stuff does
just take time becauseeverybody's personality is so
different and it's it's coolbecause when we homeschool we
can witness this as the parent.
Maybe there, if there is aworry or a concern, you can talk
(33:03):
to them about it, but at schoolthey're just thrown into a
classroom and it's like, well,you all just have to be here
together, whether you like eachother or not, and you know.
So it is really cool that youget to actually watch them.
You know what, what are theirfears?
You know being in a crowd orbeing belittled, or being
bullied, or you know, are youthe?
(33:25):
I always say to them did you dosomething first to get bullied
there?
A reason, because sometimes yousay stuff and mommy gets a
little mad.
And you know, did you saysomething to make them for you
know?
But it's interesting and Idon't do everything right, but
it's cool being there for it alland working through it together
yeah, because then you get to.
Speaker 2 (33:47):
You get to.
I was going to say teach, butit's not the right word because
I don't consider myself ateacher in any capacity.
Um, you get to, you get to.
I was going to say teach, butit's not the right word because
I don't consider myself ateacher in any capacity.
You get to parent andfacilitate what it is that your
child needs at that moment intheir life, which is as much as.
Teachers are beautiful and Iknow that they try their hardest
.
They're still one to twoteachers dealing with 15 to 30
(34:10):
kids and they're just not goingto be able to do that.
And that's why I say, forparents that are considering
homeschooling but they'refeeling scared because they
don't think they're going to beenough, I say to them you know
your child better than anybody.
You are your child's bestadvocate, you love them and you
(34:30):
care about their happiness andtheir outcomes in life.
You're absolutely the bestperson to be able to find out
what they need right now.
Speaker 1 (34:44):
Have you tried the Tuttle Twins books with your
kids yet?
We love them.
In our home, my son plays theaudio book and follows along in
his book.
It lets me get things donewhile we're homeschooling
without missing a beat in hiseducation.
The stories bring history,economics and freedom alive in a
way kids really connect with.
Check out the link in thisepisode's description and use
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(35:07):
Teach your kids about whyindependence matters, why
freedom is worth protecting, andto always stay curious.
Speaker 2 (35:15):
We are our kids' best advocate and we are best placed
to help them live a beautifullife.
And I do also feel you know yousaid before about it was it's
pointless trying to learn someof these things in childhood
when it's taking away from yourchildhood.
And I feel very much that myrole is as a protector of my
(35:39):
kids' childhood and and not in away of trying to stifle them
and keep them in a little bubble, but letting them enjoy their
childhood as much as possible,because they're going to reach
adulthood and they're going tohave to deal with all of the
crap that we deal with and allof the adult decisions and
problems and angst that goeswith that.
(36:01):
Um, and I just feel like I wantto let them enjoy their
childhood for as long aspossible.
And and that's also, you know,one of my reasons for continuing
on the unschooling path isthey're still.
You know they're 11, they're 10and 12,.
They're going to be 11 and 13.
A lot of people I'm seeing Idon't know if this is happening
(36:25):
in America, but I'm seeing inAustralia a lot of people when
they're getting to this age the10, 11 is when they're starting
to want to put their kids inmore structured classes and
activities, even when they'rehomeschooling or they're looking
at going back to some kind ofindependent school sort of thing
.
Because I think the fear iskicking in at that point that if
(36:46):
I don't make sure that they'vegot all of this base level
knowledge, then they're notgoing to be able to get a job
and they're not going to be ableto survive in life.
And my response is they'restill just kids, like they're
still just 10, 11, 12.
And yes, they're.
They're maturing and you know acouple of my daughter's friends
who are 12 are like six foottall and their voices have
(37:07):
dropped, you know, but they'restill just kids.
They still have this, you know,this critical stage of their
childhood left, which is thatpart of maturing into an adult,
and I want them to be able toenjoy themselves and have the
least amount of stress andconcerns for as long as possible
(37:29):
.
It's just you know you spendlong enough in adulthood.
I feel like I don't want topress adulthood down into their
childhood.
Speaker 1 (37:39):
Yeah, someone said to me once that anything your
child needs to know to besuccessful in life, they can
learn in their high school years, and I think that you kind of
talked about that when you saidyou know because you explore
their interests.
It's not like you do nothingall day.
Is this the year that you wantto learn to write, because you
know you might need to write tohave a job someday.
(38:00):
So you know as they get olderand it's only going to be easier
to learn how to write as you'recognitively ready anyways, like
, oh yeah, that's a B.
Well, I know, I use that letterall the time.
I'm going to need to know thatone.
So, yeah, they can learn it.
So they're already findingthings that interest them.
So then, when you get to thosehigh school years, like you said
, you're okay, what do you wantto start selling?
(38:21):
We could start a business, youknow, and, oh, that didn't work
out.
Well, what did we do wrong?
We could switch the product, wecould switch the marketing.
And they're just learning somuch that we, and also what
we're learning in school today,it's like, how are you going to
teach someone at age four?
We start school at age fourhere in America because we have
universal preschool and thenpreschool or preschool and then
(38:45):
nursery school or maybekindergarten, preschool,
kindergarten, first gradethrough 12th grade, and it's
like like how are you teachingkids things that once they are
graduated you don't know whatthe world's going to be like
with the ai and the technologyand all that?
So it is such a waste of time.
Speaker 2 (39:01):
Yeah, because they might not need to know any of
that stuff you look at theadvancement in ai, which,
honestly, you know, I try not befearful but the speed at which
it's happening does scare me alittle bit.
Because you look at last yearand the year before with AI, you
know photos, photos.
You can still reasonably easilytell if it's something that's
been created from AI.
(39:22):
It's an AI image Videos.
Last year it was really easy totell if something was AI or not
.
You know there's too manyfingers their arms aren't moving
right Now this year, like it'sonly 12, 18 months later that
we're seeing AI, that we're alldouble taking on and going oh,
is that a genuine video?
You know, and I've got friendssharing videos of like there's
(39:44):
that one that's doing the roundsat the moment of all the
different animals jumping on thetrampoline.
So there's, like it's meant tobe a, you know, a CCTV video
from outside your house of anighttime shot and it's like the
raccoons jumping on thetrampoline.
And then there's another onewith kangaroos and there's
another one with bunnies andstuff, and one of my friends
shared the kangaroo one theother day and I said I'm pretty
(40:05):
sure this is AI.
Like I've seen this very similarsetup with different animals
about four times in the pastcouple of weeks, but that's the
only way that I really picked upthat it was AI, because the
video itself looks so believableand, yeah, for our kids by the
time they are, even for myeldest, by the time she
(40:27):
graduates and, you know, is anadult, that's five years from
now.
We're going to be in such adifferent world where so many
things are going to be run by AI, and I think actually the
benefit of it is it's going toincrease the value of
face-to-face interactions andface-to-face businesses and just
(40:50):
person-to-person humaninteractions, I think, are going
to become so much moreimportant because it's going to
be the only way that you cangenuinely tell that a person is
genuine by seeing them actuallyin the flesh.
So I think that that's going tobe a really good silver lining
to all of this.
Speaker 1 (41:08):
Yeah, it's almost like they're pushing it so much,
so fast, that people will pullback and, yeah, find your local
farmers and go to your localfarmers markets and go to the
park and that stuff.
I agree, okay, last questionhere reporting.
Do you?
You mentioned a little bit inthe beginning of, like, what you
have to report.
How do you report as ahomeschooler?
Speaker 2 (41:30):
So homeschooling is a legal option in australia and
we did have to fight.
They brought in somelegislation last year in my
state, in queensland, where theywanted to um change
homeschooling so that you had tocomply with the australian.
So there's an Australian-widecurriculum.
(41:50):
Now that's not so bad, becauseit's not super hard to comply
with that.
But they did bring in someother concerning aspects of like
you needing to prove thathomeschooling was in the best
interest of your child, and thatwas very conveniently vague and
that really, really concernedme because at the moment there's
three choices for education inAustralia you can be registered
(42:13):
at a public school, you can beregistered in a private school
or you can be registered inevery state for home education
and then distance ed is kind ofin the middle there, because
you're registered with a schoolbut you're doing it at home.
If we now say thathomeschooling is something that
you have to prove is in the bestinterest of your child, we're
now saying that homeschooling isnot an equal legal choice, the
(42:36):
same as the other ones.
It's now something special andwho do I have to prove that to
and what kind of governmentofficial is going to be making
that decision about me and myfamily, and that was one of the
very, like you know, thosesneaky ones that they it's way
down buried down the back hereof like.
Just this random little pieceof thing that I was really
(42:56):
concerned was going to become amassive thing, and partly
because it had no informationabout how this was going to be
implemented or who was going tobe making that decision for you.
Um, and when that legislationwas brought in in Queensland,
the Labor government at the timehad the majority so they could
have actually just pushed itthrough, and Queensland's kind
(43:18):
of like California.
They put stuff through here inQueensland first as their
testing ground, and what happensin Queensland then sort of
rolls out to the rest of thecountry.
And so there was conversationsthat we got back from political
channels that this was thetesting ground, that we're going
to put this through inQueensland, and then they were
going to roll it out in a lot ofthe other states and
particularly because you knowLabor's kind of equivalent to
(43:40):
Democrats over here that theywere going to roll that out in
other states as well.
And the basis of that was achild who had been in the school
system had been removed fromthe school system and was then
homeschooling, and there was alot of bullying and mental
health issues happening.
The child was in the mentalhealth ward and mentioned to one
of the counsellors there thathe wished he was back at school
(44:03):
because, although homeschoolingwas protecting him from the
bullying, he was missing hisschool friends.
And unfortunately that child Ithink he was about 12, he went
on to commit suicide, which isso tragic.
But the concern then becamethat he was homeschooled when
that happened, which is notlooking at the whole picture at
all and so that became the basisof wanting to place these extra
(44:29):
restrictions and extravisibility supposedly on
homeschoolers, despite the factthat they don't actually have
the budget to be able to do that, to like come out and inspect
everybody's learning environmentand that kind of thing.
So we were able to have thatlegislation stopped.
And then there was an electioncoming up and the other party
won and they promised us if theywon that they would put that
(44:50):
legislation in.
And then there was an electioncoming up and the other party
won and they promised us if theywon that they would put that
legislation in the drawer.
Basically, and all they haveimplemented as changes are
actually really positive changesthat we needed.
So there's differentrequirements across different
states in Australia.
In Queensland, where I am,you're registered with the Home
(45:10):
Education Unit, which is part ofthe Department of Education.
It is compulsory to beregistered for some form of
education by the time a child issix and a half.
In Queensland there are 11,000registered homeschoolers in
Queensland as of last year.
That will have gone up thisyear.
It's estimated that that isonly about a quarter of the
(45:31):
actual homeschoolers and thatthere is probably about 30,000
unregistered homeschoolers inQueensland.
So then, if you extrapolatethat across Australia, we've got
40,000 registered homeschoolersin Australia.
So actually it's probably morelike 100,000 homeschoolers in
Australia.
So lots of families areunregistered.
But if you are registered, it'sfairly easy as it stands to be
(45:54):
able to translate, especiallywith AI, to be able to translate
everything that you're doing inyour life into the edu-speak
that they want to see, to beable to see you know how your
child is is progressing, and allyou are required to do in
Queensland is provide your childwith a quality education, so
(46:16):
they want to see how you, as theparent, are striving to support
your child and to teach yourchild some things.
Um, you know they're not lookingto see that the child has made
this massive level ofimprovement or that the child is
at this particular grade level.
We're not required to do testsor anything like that.
But in our reporting processthey want us to do two samples,
(46:39):
for example, where we say thefirst sample is the child at
this point in time, for theirwriting, for example, and then
they want us to explain what wedid to support the child and
then to see a second sample, youknow, from later in the year or
whenever, to show what theimprovements are.
And it's mainly just for us asthe parent, to be able to prove
(47:02):
that we understand what we'redoing and that we are actively
supporting the child.
That's actually all they'relooking for.
They're not looking for thechild to be at a grade level
passed a test, anything likethat.
So homeschooling in Australiaand that's very similar across
the states Some of the stateswhen you put your plan in for
(47:24):
the year, they will do either anonline or an in-person visit
for an assessment and aninterview.
In Queensland we don't havethat at the moment, but
homeschooling in Australia isrelatively easy, like it's not
super onerous.
It's not, you know, you're notrequired to submit a whole bunch
of paperwork.
It's actually yeah, it's quitegood right now and we'd like to
(47:48):
keep it that way.
Speaker 1 (47:50):
Yeah, it's quite good right now and we'd like to keep
it that way.
Yeah, exactly, and I couldn'thelp but think, when you said
about the tragic story with thekid committing suicide, it's
like, okay, that's one case of ahomeschooler.
How many kids in the schoolsystem commit suicide?
And who do they have to proveanything to?
I mean, that should be parentslining up at the door then and
saying you have to prove to usthat you have a safe environment
(48:13):
here.
You know, um, cause, like yousaid, it either has to do with
the homeschool and if it does,then it has to do with the
school when it happens to aschool student, or it didn't
have anything to do with theschool and he was on social
media and maybe even beinggroomed by the ai.
And you know, because there issome crazy stuff going on right
now, I follow this ladyscrolling to death and she
(48:35):
always has this stuff about,like kids being groomed online
where it's telling them to killthemselves.
I mean, it slowly works in aslike, oh, do you want to talk to
, you know, ginger?
And you know a 13 year oldboy's like, yeah, sure, but
she's not real, it's AI, andthey're forming this friendship
almost with this child.
(48:56):
And then, and I don't knowwhat's behind that I haven't
researched it at all, but enoughpeople have complained about it
, so it's like, yeah, what ishappening?
It's either in the home itself,which the kids homeschooled, and
the kids in school go home.
So it's, you know, it hasnothing to do with the education
part, the school's not going tosave that kid, but it happens
in the public school system topublic school kids, private
(49:16):
school kids, all the time.
So why should one have to provethemselves and the other one
doesn't?
It doesn't make any sense.
But, debbie, thank you so muchfor chatting with me today.
This has been awesome.
Do you have any links oranything that you wanted to
mention where people couldfollow you?
Because, since you do do thisfor your line of work, yeah, so
for families in Australia, weare the Village Hub.
Speaker 2 (49:39):
We're in Queensland.
Like I have a physical locationin Queensland.
We're halfway between Brisbaneand the Gold Coast.
I'm actually running an expo atthe end of this month.
I'm actually running an expo atthe end of this month and I
don't know why they've rocked upright now and I also do
unschooling coaching forfamilies across Australia and
New Zealand mainly.
But yeah, you can look us up onsocial media.
(50:01):
The Village Hub.
We're quite a unique setup whenit comes to we're one of the
only unschooling-friendlyhomeschool sort of drop-off
programs Australia really.
And we also have, you know,workstations and offices for
parents to be able to work inwhile the kids are playing.
So we're like that sort of onestop shop.
And, yeah, we just love, welove supporting homeschool
(50:22):
families and families to comeinto homeschooling and to be
able to make sure that it'sviable for them and that they
feel connected and part of theircommunity.
Speaker 1 (50:34):
And yeah, it's beautiful, we love it.
Oh, that's so great.
I can link that stuff in theshow's description so people can
easily check it out there.
Debbie, thank you so much forchatting with me today.
This has been a pleasure, thankyou for having me.
Thank you for tuning into thisweek's episode of the homeschool
how to.
If you've enjoyed what youheard and you'd like to
(50:56):
contribute to the show, pleaseconsider leaving a small tip
using the link in my show'sdescription.
Or, if you'd rather, please usethe link in the description to
share this podcast with a friendor on your favorite homeschool
group facebook page.
Any effort to help us keep thepodcast going is greatly
appreciated.
Thank you for tuning in and foryour love of the next
generation.
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