November 22, 2025 • 24 mins
In this powerful episode, Cheryl sits down with Anya, a seasoned mom who made the courageous choice to pull her son out of school during a season of deep grief — and discovered that unschooling was the unexpected key to his healing, growth, and confidence.
Anya shares how losing her son’s father, navigating the chaos of COVID schooling, and tuning into her child’s emotional needs led her to take full ownership of her family’s educational path. What followed included incredible personal growth, restored mental health, and the realization that children often learn more outside the system than inside it.
Together we explore:
• How unschooling helped her son recover emotionally and academically
• Why children can easily return to public school without “falling behind”
• The impact of grief, trauma, and stress on learning
• Why emotional intelligence matters more than worksheets
• Homeschool myths that keep parents scared
• Real-life skills kids actually need (and how school suppresses them)
• The hidden pressures on parents from schools, doctors & society
• Why confidence, connection, and slow childhood matter more than curriculum
If you’re considering homeschooling, curious about unschooling, or questioning the one-size-fits-all school system, this episode will give you permission to trust yourself — and your child — more deeply.
Connect with Anya: www.theangelwearsprana.com
Instagram
Youtube
Facbook
A Connected Christmas Unit Study! Start making Christmas memories today!!
📘 The Homeschool How To Complete Starter Guide
Thinking about homeschooling but don’t know where to start? Cheryl created this comprehensive guide, compiling insights from interviews with over 120 homeschooling families across the country. From navigating state laws to balancing work and home life — this eBook covers it all. Stop feeling overwhelmed and start feeling confident on your homeschooling journey.
Instagram: TheHomeschoolHowToPodcast
Facebook: The Homeschool How To Podcast
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome.
And with us today, I have Anya.
Anya, thank you for being here.
Thank you for having me.
Um, what state are you in?
I don't think I actually caughtthat.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
Right now, we are in Arizona.
We used to live in Minnesota.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
Okay, awesome.
So, how long have you beenhomeschooling?
Speaker 2 (00:21):
I homeschooled at least three different years.
Um, I did that because of mychildren's father died.
And during that time, I feltthat was during COVID, and I
felt for my youngest, who wasabout 11 at the time, way too
much for my son to deal withgrief and go to school.
(00:44):
You know, that was kind of atthe time when he was passing.
So I learned through a lot ofexperience that our society does
not know how to handle grief.
You know, one week off whenyour child's parent dies is just
it's not enough.
They shouldn't be forced tojust ignore that some big event
(01:08):
happens and then just move on.
And I only had the confidenceto do this because this was my
third kid.
And I've already had, you know,children through school knowing
that this was not going to beright for us.
Speaker 1 (01:25):
So did you just homeschool your one child at
that time?
Speaker 2 (01:28):
Yep, because my other kids were teenagers.
It was during COVID, they weredoing school online, and it was
when they were going back andforth, you know, in school, not
so everything was very notscheduled.
It was just that type of thing.
So I just knew my my little onewas too young, and we ended up
skipping an entire year ofschool, and absolutely wonderful
(01:53):
things happened to him when hedid not have to go to school.
It was, I can see that otherpeople might be very afraid to
be like, oh my gosh, what do Ido if I take my son out of
school?
I've actually taken him out ofat least two years of school,
and he goes right back intoschool and completely catches
up.
Speaker 1 (02:11):
Really?
So when you take them out, areyou are you homeschooling?
Are you doing a curriculum orany sort of um, you know, uh
intentional learning with them?
Speaker 2 (02:23):
Or I planned to do life.
I planned to.
I tried to do a curriculum.
I tried to, you know, because II am one of these more um tree
huggery, let's teach things,let's I'm one of those moms.
And what I noticed was everymorning he fought me and did not
want to do it.
Even when I bought all thestuff, and I was like, with what
(02:47):
our family's going through, Ican't handle this right now.
And I just made our house theschool, like it's the it's it's
unschooling, and I planned tohomeschool, but it turned into
unschooling.
And the thing is, my son wasafter a couple years of doing
this, he was actually very likethe shortest and smallest kid in
(03:08):
his class.
And after at least two years ofunschooling him, he's
completely grown.
He was sleeping 12 hours anight, didn't have the stress of
having to get these assignmentsin, and now he's like average
sized when he before he was thesmallest one in his whole class,
including the girls.
unknown (03:28):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
So okay, how old was he when you took him out of
school?
Speaker 2 (03:32):
11.
He's 16 now and back inregular.
He he chooses now to be inpublic education.
Like it, I don't have to makehim go.
He does it on his own becausehe's had both options.
Speaker 1 (03:46):
Yeah, so that's interesting too.
So how long had you kept himhome?
Did you say three years?
Speaker 2 (03:52):
Um gosh, I can't even remember.
It's at least two differentschool years, but we would like
to skip a year and then we movedfrom Minnesota, Arizona, and
then I put him right back intoschool, didn't miss a beat,
didn't miss anything, wasn'tbehind in anything, just jumped
right back in.
That's what I think peopledon't understand is if you take
your kid out of school for ayear, depending on the situation
(04:13):
and the time, nothing willhappen.
Bad.
Speaker 1 (04:19):
Nothing.
Wow.
You know, that's that is crazy.
I have never really thought ofit in those terms because the
unschoolers that I talk to,they're still unschooling.
So it's not like they wouldknow if their kids went to
public school or traditionalschool, you know, your kids on
par or not.
You know, I talk to people whohave graduated their unschoolers
(04:40):
and they're successful in life,but they're there's not really
like a metric to say, okay, didyou learn anything at home?
Did you learn anything atschool?
Here you go.
Speaker 2 (04:49):
Now that I am what I would call a seasoned mother,
you know, a seasoned mother, Ihave had three kids.
My youngest is 16, and I'veseen it.
And now I realize that theydon't need every little bit of
that structured environmentdepending on the situation.
It's it's not a black and whitething to say, oh, I'm gonna
(05:12):
unschool, my kids are nevergonna go back.
The world is so a mess rightnow that you this is a great
time to make informed choices.
I went to four years ofcollege.
I have a business degree andplenty of other education.
The last thing I wanted my kidsto do was to go spend $30,000 a
(05:32):
year and go into college.
For what?
Yes.
For what?
Unless you they're in school,community college, part-time,
have jobs.
We have to stop this mentalityof thinking I have to get
through this much education tobe what society wants me to be
as a person.
These kids are way smarter thanthat.
(05:53):
I mean, I really want people tolook at this and go, these kids
are all cheating with AI.
Every single one of them is.
And we are lying to ourselvesif we think that they're
actually learning something fromall this AI youth.
Speaker 1 (06:10):
Yes.
And then when you think aboutthe money that you would spend,
not just on a community college,but on four years away and room
and board, they're coming outwith at least $200,000 in debt
if they did a four-year schoolwith room and board.
I mean, it's at least two.
And then when you compound theinterest on top of that, oh my
(06:32):
God, it's gotta be like amillion dollars.
I I should do the math on that.
There's it's just setting themup for never being able to own a
home or being able to be astay-at-home mom if they choose
that later in life.
Um, it's really convoluted.
It really, really is.
Speaker 2 (06:48):
And it, I think it really did take the confidence
of being, you know, my lastchild is four years different
than my first two.
So the first two are two yearsapart, and then there was a
four-year gap.
And I think that was enoughtime for me to see like this
education.
We all know this deep in ourhearts.
We know we don't need to go toschool every single day for
(07:12):
seven hours a day, the way thesystem has designed it.
We all can look back and say, Ididn't really need that.
My son got his first job, andhe was given this job when they
normally don't hire16-year-olds, and he's more
responsible than any of theother employees there because he
(07:32):
wants to be there.
He knows the discipline fromhome.
I did the disciplining in thereal mothering.
I didn't have I haven't had aTV in my house for at least 10
years.
We don't have cable.
If you don't sit in front ofthat TV all day long, you gotta
get your life stuff done.
My son knows how to cook.
(07:55):
He knows how to do his laundry,he knows how he has a checking
account, he has his own debitcard.
He they they work.
Speaker 1 (08:09):
Those are so important to teach them.
Just those real life skills.
And then other things kind offlourish from them.
Well, here's a debit card.
We're gonna talk now about howinterest works and how debt
works, and um, you know, how youcan gain interest if you have
money in, you know, certaintypes of accounts, and how you
have to pay interest if you'retaking out money, you know,
(08:30):
alone from the bank and reallygetting into those
conversations.
Because yeah, again, with thecollege debt, they never teach
you that in school.
That, okay, well, your loanmight be 200,000, but here's
what you're actually payingback.
Nobody has that concept.
I mean, would we how did yourson yeah, go ahead?
Speaker 2 (08:50):
I just want to ask the question would we buy a
house if the the whole price ofthe house was on the document
before we bought it?
Would we really do that?
Oh, you're so right.
Speaker 1 (09:01):
I mean, I'm sure it's there somewhere in like the
amortization schedule, butthey're not showing you that
piece.
Why don't they?
Sign here.
Why don't they?
Speaker 2 (09:11):
That's my question.
Why don't we ask how much am Ipaying for this before I even
sign into this?
unknown (09:19):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (09:20):
Yes, definitely for the college.
I don't remember signinganything for college loans.
I'm sure my mother did, butthey were still in my name.
So geez, I that's that's soweird to think about that you
know, your parent can just takeout these loans for you.
I'm sure there's been some sortof things to go south with
(09:41):
those.
Speaker 2 (09:41):
It came I I'm a single mom and I did not sign
those paperwork because my kidsweren't properly motivated.
They didn't want thatexperience, and they lived
through a life.
I didn't pay off my studentloans until I was a single mom
with three kids in 50-50custody.
I had a party on the phone witha woman when I finally finished
(10:03):
paying it off.
Speaker 1 (10:08):
Uh now, what made your son want to go back to
school?
Speaker 2 (10:11):
Uh, I feel like after staying at home and he, I mean,
he slept 12 hours a night.
We eat healthy food.
I don't have a TV.
We moved out somewhere.
We're in Arizona, and it's alittle more country out here
where you he's a boy.
He had to be more physical.
Like the job he has right nowis very outdoors and physical.
(10:33):
That's what boys need.
I think we all know this.
These boys aren't misbehaving,they're not in the proper
environment.
And the system is not going tomake good choices for us.
The system is set up to docertain things.
If you don't like it, you haveto put up a boundary and say,
I'm not doing that.
People think, oh, they won'tlet my kid back in school.
(10:54):
Really?
Yeah, they will.
They'll let your kid back inschool.
There's moms out there who arelike, I refuse to force my kid
to do this.
They pass the kids anyway.
Speaker 1 (11:08):
Yeah.
It's time to start taking backownership of like, this is my
child and this is what we'regoing to do.
Um, I think, and that's thatwas one of the biggest reasons
that I started homeschoolingbecause when they wanted to mask
the kids, and I was like, ohwait, my kid's three.
I don't want to mask on him.
And it was kind of like, sorry,you have no say in this, mom.
And I was like, wow, we reallydon't have any say over our
(11:31):
kids.
But could you demand it?
Like, we just feel the samewith a pediatrician.
You feel that you're stuckuntil you know your rights and
what you actually can and can'tdo.
Speaker 2 (11:41):
I mean, they literally tell you that you
can't go to school without allthese facts.
I have been fine sendingfilling out conscientious
exemption forms for my kidssince they started school.
I mean, I didn't know, but Iwas ahead of the game.
I I felt you they they cannotmake you have these vaccines.
(12:03):
There's conscientious exemptionforms.
They tell you one thing, whathappens in reality is something
completely different.
Speaker 1 (12:12):
Well, you're right, but there are five states where
we don't have exemption.
Like they won't allow us tosubmit an exemption form because
I'm in New York.
Speaker 2 (12:20):
Okay.
And so that's just in myexperience in the two states we
lived in.
That was my experience.
I will correct myself withthat.
Speaker 1 (12:28):
And well, no, but but in 45 states, and you're right
that people don't know that.
It's people think that you haveto have everything on the
schedule because thepediatricians they do get paid
more money.
They want a certain, a veryhigh percentage of their
practice to be fully vaccinated,and they get you know kickbacks
for that, um bonuses for thattoo.
(12:49):
But um we so we think that ifthey don't ask you, do you want
this at the uh appointment?
They just say this is what he'sdue for today.
So you do it, but yeah, only inNew York, California,
Connecticut, wait, hold on.
New York, California, Maine.
I think I won't go go into theother two, but um because
(13:11):
there's some back and forth, Ithink, on the Mississippi, um,
because they like got theirexemption back and then they
lost it again.
But there's five states, and soif you're in the other 45, you
can submit an exemption form.
Speaker 2 (13:22):
I think people need to actually sit down in their
own self and think, why wouldthey want me to have this?
Why?
You know, people are just like,oh, we know that the we have to
understand that thesepediatricians are getting paid
to do this stuff.
It's not necessarily in thebest interest.
(13:44):
I'm not sitting here tellingpeople vax or not vax, go to
school or not go to school.
This is the time to makeconscious choices.
Like I knew my kid could notfunction in that school and be
healthy in the situation that wewere in.
So I did something about it.
Did we get judged?
(14:05):
Yeah, a lot.
We got judged a lot.
But he's 16.
It's frustrating because I knowthe truth for me and what's
right for my family.
I mean, I have I would go tothe doctor and say finally,
okay, this is a vaccine that weare getting at the time.
And I would get yelled at andlectured because I didn't get
(14:26):
all the other vaccines.
I'd just look at them and say,no, that's not what I'm doing.
Walk out.
It's not fun.
That's why I just haven'tshared a lot of this information
because it's frustrating.
Speaker 1 (14:42):
Yeah.
Were you judged and criticizedby family and friends?
All of them.
Speaker 2 (14:48):
The doctors, family, friends, but none of them were
gonna be there for me if my kidwas gonna be sick.
And I had, I mean, I had tolook inside my soul and be like,
is this the right thing or not?
Like, this is why I didn't sendmy kids to daycare.
I'm not saying it was easy.
It drives you crazy, threelittle kids, two two in diapers
(15:08):
or a baby.
Our society is not set upcorrectly.
We shouldn't be letting peopledo this.
It's supposed to take avillage.
It's so wrong.
And I now I don't have littlekids anymore, but I look at
these parents and I'm like, howare you doing this with how
everything is now?
I haven't lost my empathy.
(15:30):
It's the same thing.
Like, I could everyone knowsyou send your kids to daycare,
they get sick all the time, andyou send it's so stressful.
You have to make a certainamount of money to pay for
daycare.
My daycare when I had my firstbaby was uh $250 a week, and I
was only making $500 at thetime.
That was in 2003.
(15:52):
And I had a business degree anda professional job.
That is the number one reasonwhy I have not worked a
full-time job.
Speaker 1 (16:02):
Yeah.
Well, and so the daycare thingis interesting too because I
sent my son to daycare at sixmonths old.
And then when I had mydaughter, I had already pulled
him out because of the maskingsituation and decided, you know,
I think we're gonna homeschool.
So I started uh I started thepodcast when she was born,
actually.
But um I worked for thegovernment and I was like, can I
(16:25):
really quit a job with apension and the health insurance
in the house?
And uh that was really hardtoo.
But I haven't regretted it aday.
You know, yeah, we don't havethe income, you know.
But I can make more money laterwhen my kids are older and
don't need me as much.
I'm never gonna be able to getback the years that they were
(16:48):
small.
And now that I have been homewith my daughter every single
day since she was born, I seeall the things that she needs
throughout the day.
And then I feel bad because I'mlike, oh my God, my son needed
me and I wasn't there.
Um so, but you know, yeah, youlive and learn.
It's a cool perspective tohave, at least to give other
people who are debating.
Speaker 2 (17:08):
Yeah, I'm a very old soul, and I had issues
physically where I didn't knowif I would be able to have kids.
So then when I did get pregnantand have kids, when I could,
I'm like, I just asked myselfthis question.
This is not a judgmentalquestion because it was very,
very hard to be home and be theone that the the kids have to
(17:30):
follow.
People don't understand.
You are giving up a piece ofyour nervous system to regulate
that child's nervous system.
As someone who has done hershadow work and her inner child
work on a deep level, peopledon't understand that you have a
child to mirror things fromyour childhood so you can learn
(17:53):
and make better choices.
People don't understand that.
That's funny.
Speaker 1 (18:00):
Because I just saw a post, I think yesterday, that
said something to that effect.
Like your child is supposed toshow you I don't know, teach you
something about yourself inyour childhood.
I don't know.
But that makes a lot of sense.
There's certain things that youknow my son does that trigger
(18:21):
me for things in my childhood.
And, you know, um, I havereally had to look at like,
okay, what can I do to reactbetter or make a better
connection with him?
And I'm still not there.
Speaker 2 (18:35):
I'm like we're moving out of I don't know.
I treat we're moving out ofthis idea where I'm the parent,
you're the child, you dowhatever I say.
We're we're moving into this.
What is this relationshipteaching both of us?
And when I after I had aspiritual awakening, and God
showed me what my purpose is inlife was, I got to look back at
(18:59):
everything I did as a mother,and it was things that were
trying to heal my inner childand doing things for my kids
that either I didn't have or Iimproved on that people don't
understand that that is a verydeep reason that we come into
being is you know, coming injust being born is an
(19:23):
experience, and giving birth toother beings is an experience.
And did you learn from yourexperience in your childhood and
treat your children better thanyou were treated?
Or, you know, I my parents didnot eat healthy, we drank all
that Kool-Aid and all thatsugar.
I never allowed that for mykids, and yes, my family gave me
(19:46):
a really hard time.
My family was putting winecoolers up to my children's
mouths when they were kids,thinking, oh, it's no big deal.
You're just I'm like nowadaysthat would be seen as insanity.
I mean, I had family memberssaying, Oh, you're not gonna
make your own baby food.
Darn right I did.
(20:07):
Took a vegetable, put itthrough a little mill.
There's your baby food.
Speaker 1 (20:12):
Yeah.
Well, and that's funny too,because I remember like
thinking, like, oh, uh peoplethat make their own baby food,
that's crazy.
And then now that I'm part ofthe homeschooling community,
which they tend to be just morehealth conscientious, I'm like,
yeah, you're right.
You're just taking somethingand putting it in a blender.
It was that easy.
Speaker 2 (20:33):
I mean, it was I we we didn't have a lot of money,
but I didn't think about it atthe time.
I was busy, you know, I wastaking care of three kids,
getting things done every day.
I worked part-time and I washome with them.
My kids are really sensitive,you know, to all kinds of
different things because I'msensitive.
And I did what I had to do.
(20:54):
It was a regular schedule, naptimes, early bed times.
And I am thankful that at thatpoint, where I lived in the
Midwest was a little bit asuburb that was a little bit
further out.
Not dangerous, outside all thetime, four seasons.
It was a great childhood forthem.
I don't have to look back andthink I did not do enough.
Speaker 1 (21:20):
So now um, I want to go back to a little bit more
about your son going back toschool.
I know you said thatacademically, he didn't miss a
beat.
Like he was right there, likemath and everything.
Speaker 2 (21:31):
Everything.
I realized that it was reallymore of him.
The problem that I noticed withmy youngest son is that he
spent so much time, and I didnot even hook up his phone until
this year.
He has been going around with aphone that only hooks to Wi-Fi.
And I realized the number oneproblem with him in school is
(21:52):
that he's so used to all thesefast videos that he has a hard
time slowing down to actuallylearn anything because
everything is videos and online.
He doesn't like reading oranything.
And he does it.
He has to.
Speaker 1 (22:08):
Okay.
So now well, that was kind ofleading to my question that I
was gonna ask next was how didyou know, like, did you notice
anything socially different?
Like, okay, now all the kids inhis grade have phones, so you
know, we have to join the crowdfor that, or they all have
social media pages.
Like, what was that like?
Speaker 2 (22:29):
I don't fall into that crap.
I'm just too strong of an oldsoul to do that.
I realized very early I didn'twant these kids to have their
phones.
Their father gave them to them.
I didn't.
Um, I realized that I alreadyhad a little bit of a social
media addiction and I didn'twant to pass that on to my kids.
I just, I just have never donethat crap.
(22:52):
I'm not afraid of disappointingmy kids for something that I
think is morally good for them.
Speaker 1 (22:57):
Um, well, this has been so cool to hear about, you
know, just giving parents theconfidence of one, you can take
ownership of your family andyour children.
You are their parent.
Um, the government does not ownthem.
And two, just, you know, theywill fall right back into
whatever the like you don't haveto worry about the rigorous
(23:20):
schedule with sitting down forreading and math and science and
history and art and you know,making sure they're learning
Latin and Greek, you know,they're gonna be just fine that
they are resilient and they'regonna learn what they want to
learn when they're ready tolearn it.
Do you have advice to theparents that are saying, you
(23:43):
know, I do have that inner childthat, you know, my parents did
things wrong with and I want tofix it?
Um, are there how do you evengo about doing that?
Do you need therapy?
Do you need, you know, or isthere stuff we can do at home?
Speaker 2 (23:57):
My advice is we're probably doing way more than we
need to be doing to makeourselves happy and
well-adjusted, giving kindpeople.
Most homeschoolers know thepeople that have been doing it
for a really long time, theyonly homeschool about two, three
(24:19):
hours a day.
The the experienced people whohave done it for long periods of
time.
I've only done it sporadicallyfor particular situations.
But the ones that have done itfor a long time, they know that
it doesn't take six hours orseven hours a day to teach
children what they need to knowfor each year of their growth.
(24:40):
The experts all talk aboutemotional intelligence being the
number one quality that makes aperson successful.
There's all kinds of researchabout this, and that is, in my
opinion, completely true.
If you can feel people, reademotions, take direction, have
self-discipline, these are allgodly qualities that we teach
(25:04):
our kid.
And you know, even the factthat when we're like, oh, you
have to do your homework becauseof this, I didn't tell my kids
that.
I didn't tell my kids go getA's.
I'm like, get at least C's.
That's it.
That's all I've told them.
And most of their classes, theyend up getting better grades
because I don't push them intoit.
I mean, I have that bottomlevel of what I expect.
(25:27):
And if you don't do that, I'llget involved.
But I don't have to push themto do it because they just they
know what they need to do now.
Especially my last kid when hegot a job.
He was able to put that stuffthat you learn from school in
into real life situations.
That's what we're lacking.
These kids don't have real lifeskills anymore because they've
(25:50):
just been told what to do.
I also want to say for ourfamily, I don't like team
sports.
Not my thing.
My son was into scootering andskateboarding at the skate park.
He has learned so manyrelational skills from having to
get along with other littleboys at a skate park with no
(26:11):
adults there.
I mean, yes, there's adultslooking and you know, but it's
not like a football team where afootball team, you know,
coaches saying, do this, dothat, don't do this, don't do
that.
They have to learn it in anatural way to relate to other
people.
Speaker 1 (26:26):
That makes so much sense.
Anya, thank you for being heretoday.
I um I hope the recording cameout smoothly.
I know we had a couple oftechnical errors, but what you
had to say was so inspirationaland really make people kind of
stop and think about what'sreally important.
So thank you so much for beinghere today.
Welcome.
And with us today, I have Anya.
Anya, thank you for being here.
Thank you for having me.
Um, what state are you in?
I don't think I actually caughtthat.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
Right now, we are in Arizona.
We used to live in Minnesota.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
Okay, awesome.
So, how long have you beenhomeschooling?
Speaker 2 (00:21):
I homeschooled at least three different years.
Um, I did that because of mychildren's father died.
And during that time, I feltthat was during COVID, and I
felt for my youngest, who wasabout 11 at the time, way too
much for my son to deal withgrief and go to school.
(00:44):
You know, that was kind of atthe time when he was passing.
So I learned through a lot ofexperience that our society does
not know how to handle grief.
You know, one week off whenyour child's parent dies is just
it's not enough.
They shouldn't be forced tojust ignore that some big event
(01:08):
happens and then just move on.
And I only had the confidenceto do this because this was my
third kid.
And I've already had, you know,children through school knowing
that this was not going to beright for us.
Speaker 1 (01:25):
So did you just homeschool your one child at
that time?
Speaker 2 (01:28):
Yep, because my other kids were teenagers.
It was during COVID, they weredoing school online, and it was
when they were going back andforth, you know, in school, not
so everything was very notscheduled.
It was just that type of thing.
So I just knew my my little onewas too young, and we ended up
skipping an entire year ofschool, and absolutely wonderful
(01:53):
things happened to him when hedid not have to go to school.
It was, I can see that otherpeople might be very afraid to
be like, oh my gosh, what do Ido if I take my son out of
school?
I've actually taken him out ofat least two years of school,
and he goes right back intoschool and completely catches
up.
Speaker 1 (02:11):
Really?
So when you take them out, areyou are you homeschooling?
Are you doing a curriculum orany sort of um, you know, uh
intentional learning with them?
Speaker 2 (02:23):
Or I planned to do life.
I planned to.
I tried to do a curriculum.
I tried to, you know, because II am one of these more um tree
huggery, let's teach things,let's I'm one of those moms.
And what I noticed was everymorning he fought me and did not
want to do it.
Even when I bought all thestuff, and I was like, with what
(02:47):
our family's going through, Ican't handle this right now.
And I just made our house theschool, like it's the it's it's
unschooling, and I planned tohomeschool, but it turned into
unschooling.
And the thing is, my son wasafter a couple years of doing
this, he was actually very likethe shortest and smallest kid in
(03:08):
his class.
And after at least two years ofunschooling him, he's
completely grown.
He was sleeping 12 hours anight, didn't have the stress of
having to get these assignmentsin, and now he's like average
sized when he before he was thesmallest one in his whole class,
including the girls.
unknown (03:28):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
So okay, how old was he when you took him out of
school?
Speaker 2 (03:32):
11.
He's 16 now and back inregular.
He he chooses now to be inpublic education.
Like it, I don't have to makehim go.
He does it on his own becausehe's had both options.
Speaker 1 (03:46):
Yeah, so that's interesting too.
So how long had you kept himhome?
Did you say three years?
Speaker 2 (03:52):
Um gosh, I can't even remember.
It's at least two differentschool years, but we would like
to skip a year and then we movedfrom Minnesota, Arizona, and
then I put him right back intoschool, didn't miss a beat,
didn't miss anything, wasn'tbehind in anything, just jumped
right back in.
That's what I think peopledon't understand is if you take
your kid out of school for ayear, depending on the situation
(04:13):
and the time, nothing willhappen.
Bad.
Speaker 1 (04:19):
Nothing.
Wow.
You know, that's that is crazy.
I have never really thought ofit in those terms because the
unschoolers that I talk to,they're still unschooling.
So it's not like they wouldknow if their kids went to
public school or traditionalschool, you know, your kids on
par or not.
You know, I talk to people whohave graduated their unschoolers
(04:40):
and they're successful in life,but they're there's not really
like a metric to say, okay, didyou learn anything at home?
Did you learn anything atschool?
Here you go.
Speaker 2 (04:49):
Now that I am what I would call a seasoned mother,
you know, a seasoned mother, Ihave had three kids.
My youngest is 16, and I'veseen it.
And now I realize that theydon't need every little bit of
that structured environmentdepending on the situation.
It's it's not a black and whitething to say, oh, I'm gonna
(05:12):
unschool, my kids are nevergonna go back.
The world is so a mess rightnow that you this is a great
time to make informed choices.
I went to four years ofcollege.
I have a business degree andplenty of other education.
The last thing I wanted my kidsto do was to go spend $30,000 a
(05:32):
year and go into college.
For what?
Yes.
For what?
Unless you they're in school,community college, part-time,
have jobs.
We have to stop this mentalityof thinking I have to get
through this much education tobe what society wants me to be
as a person.
These kids are way smarter thanthat.
(05:53):
I mean, I really want people tolook at this and go, these kids
are all cheating with AI.
Every single one of them is.
And we are lying to ourselvesif we think that they're
actually learning something fromall this AI youth.
Speaker 1 (06:10):
Yes.
And then when you think aboutthe money that you would spend,
not just on a community college,but on four years away and room
and board, they're coming outwith at least $200,000 in debt
if they did a four-year schoolwith room and board.
I mean, it's at least two.
And then when you compound theinterest on top of that, oh my
(06:32):
God, it's gotta be like amillion dollars.
I I should do the math on that.
There's it's just setting themup for never being able to own a
home or being able to be astay-at-home mom if they choose
that later in life.
Um, it's really convoluted.
It really, really is.
Speaker 2 (06:48):
And it, I think it really did take the confidence
of being, you know, my lastchild is four years different
than my first two.
So the first two are two yearsapart, and then there was a
four-year gap.
And I think that was enoughtime for me to see like this
education.
We all know this deep in ourhearts.
We know we don't need to go toschool every single day for
(07:12):
seven hours a day, the way thesystem has designed it.
We all can look back and say, Ididn't really need that.
My son got his first job, andhe was given this job when they
normally don't hire16-year-olds, and he's more
responsible than any of theother employees there because he
(07:32):
wants to be there.
He knows the discipline fromhome.
I did the disciplining in thereal mothering.
I didn't have I haven't had aTV in my house for at least 10
years.
We don't have cable.
If you don't sit in front ofthat TV all day long, you gotta
get your life stuff done.
My son knows how to cook.
(07:55):
He knows how to do his laundry,he knows how he has a checking
account, he has his own debitcard.
He they they work.
Speaker 1 (08:09):
Those are so important to teach them.
Just those real life skills.
And then other things kind offlourish from them.
Well, here's a debit card.
We're gonna talk now about howinterest works and how debt
works, and um, you know, how youcan gain interest if you have
money in, you know, certaintypes of accounts, and how you
have to pay interest if you'retaking out money, you know,
(08:30):
alone from the bank and reallygetting into those
conversations.
Because yeah, again, with thecollege debt, they never teach
you that in school.
That, okay, well, your loanmight be 200,000, but here's
what you're actually payingback.
Nobody has that concept.
I mean, would we how did yourson yeah, go ahead?
Speaker 2 (08:50):
I just want to ask the question would we buy a
house if the the whole price ofthe house was on the document
before we bought it?
Would we really do that?
Oh, you're so right.
Speaker 1 (09:01):
I mean, I'm sure it's there somewhere in like the
amortization schedule, butthey're not showing you that
piece.
Why don't they?
Sign here.
Why don't they?
Speaker 2 (09:11):
That's my question.
Why don't we ask how much am Ipaying for this before I even
sign into this?
unknown (09:19):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (09:20):
Yes, definitely for the college.
I don't remember signinganything for college loans.
I'm sure my mother did, butthey were still in my name.
So geez, I that's that's soweird to think about that you
know, your parent can just takeout these loans for you.
I'm sure there's been some sortof things to go south with
(09:41):
those.
Speaker 2 (09:41):
It came I I'm a single mom and I did not sign
those paperwork because my kidsweren't properly motivated.
They didn't want thatexperience, and they lived
through a life.
I didn't pay off my studentloans until I was a single mom
with three kids in 50-50custody.
I had a party on the phone witha woman when I finally finished
(10:03):
paying it off.
Speaker 1 (10:08):
Uh now, what made your son want to go back to
school?
Speaker 2 (10:11):
Uh, I feel like after staying at home and he, I mean,
he slept 12 hours a night.
We eat healthy food.
I don't have a TV.
We moved out somewhere.
We're in Arizona, and it's alittle more country out here
where you he's a boy.
He had to be more physical.
Like the job he has right nowis very outdoors and physical.
(10:33):
That's what boys need.
I think we all know this.
These boys aren't misbehaving,they're not in the proper
environment.
And the system is not going tomake good choices for us.
The system is set up to docertain things.
If you don't like it, you haveto put up a boundary and say,
I'm not doing that.
People think, oh, they won'tlet my kid back in school.
(10:54):
Really?
Yeah, they will.
They'll let your kid back inschool.
There's moms out there who arelike, I refuse to force my kid
to do this.
They pass the kids anyway.
Speaker 1 (11:08):
Yeah.
It's time to start taking backownership of like, this is my
child and this is what we'regoing to do.
Um, I think, and that's thatwas one of the biggest reasons
that I started homeschoolingbecause when they wanted to mask
the kids, and I was like, ohwait, my kid's three.
I don't want to mask on him.
And it was kind of like, sorry,you have no say in this, mom.
And I was like, wow, we reallydon't have any say over our
(11:31):
kids.
But could you demand it?
Like, we just feel the samewith a pediatrician.
You feel that you're stuckuntil you know your rights and
what you actually can and can'tdo.
Speaker 2 (11:41):
I mean, they literally tell you that you
can't go to school without allthese facts.
I have been fine sendingfilling out conscientious
exemption forms for my kidssince they started school.
I mean, I didn't know, but Iwas ahead of the game.
I I felt you they they cannotmake you have these vaccines.
(12:03):
There's conscientious exemptionforms.
They tell you one thing, whathappens in reality is something
completely different.
Speaker 1 (12:12):
Well, you're right, but there are five states where
we don't have exemption.
Like they won't allow us tosubmit an exemption form because
I'm in New York.
Speaker 2 (12:20):
Okay.
And so that's just in myexperience in the two states we
lived in.
That was my experience.
I will correct myself withthat.
Speaker 1 (12:28):
And well, no, but but in 45 states, and you're right
that people don't know that.
It's people think that you haveto have everything on the
schedule because thepediatricians they do get paid
more money.
They want a certain, a veryhigh percentage of their
practice to be fully vaccinated,and they get you know kickbacks
for that, um bonuses for thattoo.
(12:49):
But um we so we think that ifthey don't ask you, do you want
this at the uh appointment?
They just say this is what he'sdue for today.
So you do it, but yeah, only inNew York, California,
Connecticut, wait, hold on.
New York, California, Maine.
I think I won't go go into theother two, but um because
(13:11):
there's some back and forth, Ithink, on the Mississippi, um,
because they like got theirexemption back and then they
lost it again.
But there's five states, and soif you're in the other 45, you
can submit an exemption form.
Speaker 2 (13:22):
I think people need to actually sit down in their
own self and think, why wouldthey want me to have this?
Why?
You know, people are just like,oh, we know that the we have to
understand that thesepediatricians are getting paid
to do this stuff.
It's not necessarily in thebest interest.
(13:44):
I'm not sitting here tellingpeople vax or not vax, go to
school or not go to school.
This is the time to makeconscious choices.
Like I knew my kid could notfunction in that school and be
healthy in the situation that wewere in.
So I did something about it.
Did we get judged?
(14:05):
Yeah, a lot.
We got judged a lot.
But he's 16.
It's frustrating because I knowthe truth for me and what's
right for my family.
I mean, I have I would go tothe doctor and say finally,
okay, this is a vaccine that weare getting at the time.
And I would get yelled at andlectured because I didn't get
(14:26):
all the other vaccines.
I'd just look at them and say,no, that's not what I'm doing.
Walk out.
It's not fun.
That's why I just haven'tshared a lot of this information
because it's frustrating.
Speaker 1 (14:42):
Yeah.
Were you judged and criticizedby family and friends?
All of them.
Speaker 2 (14:48):
The doctors, family, friends, but none of them were
gonna be there for me if my kidwas gonna be sick.
And I had, I mean, I had tolook inside my soul and be like,
is this the right thing or not?
Like, this is why I didn't sendmy kids to daycare.
I'm not saying it was easy.
It drives you crazy, threelittle kids, two two in diapers
(15:08):
or a baby.
Our society is not set upcorrectly.
We shouldn't be letting peopledo this.
It's supposed to take avillage.
It's so wrong.
And I now I don't have littlekids anymore, but I look at
these parents and I'm like, howare you doing this with how
everything is now?
I haven't lost my empathy.
(15:30):
It's the same thing.
Like, I could everyone knowsyou send your kids to daycare,
they get sick all the time, andyou send it's so stressful.
You have to make a certainamount of money to pay for
daycare.
My daycare when I had my firstbaby was uh $250 a week, and I
was only making $500 at thetime.
That was in 2003.
(15:52):
And I had a business degree anda professional job.
That is the number one reasonwhy I have not worked a
full-time job.
Speaker 1 (16:02):
Yeah.
Well, and so the daycare thingis interesting too because I
sent my son to daycare at sixmonths old.
And then when I had mydaughter, I had already pulled
him out because of the maskingsituation and decided, you know,
I think we're gonna homeschool.
So I started uh I started thepodcast when she was born,
actually.
But um I worked for thegovernment and I was like, can I
(16:25):
really quit a job with apension and the health insurance
in the house?
And uh that was really hardtoo.
But I haven't regretted it aday.
You know, yeah, we don't havethe income, you know.
But I can make more money laterwhen my kids are older and
don't need me as much.
I'm never gonna be able to getback the years that they were
(16:48):
small.
And now that I have been homewith my daughter every single
day since she was born, I seeall the things that she needs
throughout the day.
And then I feel bad because I'mlike, oh my God, my son needed
me and I wasn't there.
Um so, but you know, yeah, youlive and learn.
It's a cool perspective tohave, at least to give other
people who are debating.
Speaker 2 (17:08):
Yeah, I'm a very old soul, and I had issues
physically where I didn't knowif I would be able to have kids.
So then when I did get pregnantand have kids, when I could,
I'm like, I just asked myselfthis question.
This is not a judgmentalquestion because it was very,
very hard to be home and be theone that the the kids have to
(17:30):
follow.
People don't understand.
You are giving up a piece ofyour nervous system to regulate
that child's nervous system.
As someone who has done hershadow work and her inner child
work on a deep level, peopledon't understand that you have a
child to mirror things fromyour childhood so you can learn
(17:53):
and make better choices.
People don't understand that.
That's funny.
Speaker 1 (18:00):
Because I just saw a post, I think yesterday, that
said something to that effect.
Like your child is supposed toshow you I don't know, teach you
something about yourself inyour childhood.
I don't know.
But that makes a lot of sense.
There's certain things that youknow my son does that trigger
(18:21):
me for things in my childhood.
And, you know, um, I havereally had to look at like,
okay, what can I do to reactbetter or make a better
connection with him?
And I'm still not there.
Speaker 2 (18:35):
I'm like we're moving out of I don't know.
I treat we're moving out ofthis idea where I'm the parent,
you're the child, you dowhatever I say.
We're we're moving into this.
What is this relationshipteaching both of us?
And when I after I had aspiritual awakening, and God
showed me what my purpose is inlife was, I got to look back at
(18:59):
everything I did as a mother,and it was things that were
trying to heal my inner childand doing things for my kids
that either I didn't have or Iimproved on that people don't
understand that that is a verydeep reason that we come into
being is you know, coming injust being born is an
(19:23):
experience, and giving birth toother beings is an experience.
And did you learn from yourexperience in your childhood and
treat your children better thanyou were treated?
Or, you know, I my parents didnot eat healthy, we drank all
that Kool-Aid and all thatsugar.
I never allowed that for mykids, and yes, my family gave me
(19:46):
a really hard time.
My family was putting winecoolers up to my children's
mouths when they were kids,thinking, oh, it's no big deal.
You're just I'm like nowadaysthat would be seen as insanity.
I mean, I had family memberssaying, Oh, you're not gonna
make your own baby food.
Darn right I did.
(20:07):
Took a vegetable, put itthrough a little mill.
There's your baby food.
Speaker 1 (20:12):
Yeah.
Well, and that's funny too,because I remember like
thinking, like, oh, uh peoplethat make their own baby food,
that's crazy.
And then now that I'm part ofthe homeschooling community,
which they tend to be just morehealth conscientious, I'm like,
yeah, you're right.
You're just taking somethingand putting it in a blender.
It was that easy.
Speaker 2 (20:33):
I mean, it was I we we didn't have a lot of money,
but I didn't think about it atthe time.
I was busy, you know, I wastaking care of three kids,
getting things done every day.
I worked part-time and I washome with them.
My kids are really sensitive,you know, to all kinds of
different things because I'msensitive.
And I did what I had to do.
(20:54):
It was a regular schedule, naptimes, early bed times.
And I am thankful that at thatpoint, where I lived in the
Midwest was a little bit asuburb that was a little bit
further out.
Not dangerous, outside all thetime, four seasons.
It was a great childhood forthem.
I don't have to look back andthink I did not do enough.
Speaker 1 (21:20):
So now um, I want to go back to a little bit more
about your son going back toschool.
I know you said thatacademically, he didn't miss a
beat.
Like he was right there, likemath and everything.
Speaker 2 (21:31):
Everything.
I realized that it was reallymore of him.
The problem that I noticed withmy youngest son is that he
spent so much time, and I didnot even hook up his phone until
this year.
He has been going around with aphone that only hooks to Wi-Fi.
And I realized the number oneproblem with him in school is
(21:52):
that he's so used to all thesefast videos that he has a hard
time slowing down to actuallylearn anything because
everything is videos and online.
He doesn't like reading oranything.
And he does it.
He has to.
Speaker 1 (22:08):
Okay.
So now well, that was kind ofleading to my question that I
was gonna ask next was how didyou know, like, did you notice
anything socially different?
Like, okay, now all the kids inhis grade have phones, so you
know, we have to join the crowdfor that, or they all have
social media pages.
Like, what was that like?
Speaker 2 (22:29):
I don't fall into that crap.
I'm just too strong of an oldsoul to do that.
I realized very early I didn'twant these kids to have their
phones.
Their father gave them to them.
I didn't.
Um, I realized that I alreadyhad a little bit of a social
media addiction and I didn'twant to pass that on to my kids.
I just, I just have never donethat crap.
(22:52):
I'm not afraid of disappointingmy kids for something that I
think is morally good for them.
Speaker 1 (22:57):
Um, well, this has been so cool to hear about, you
know, just giving parents theconfidence of one, you can take
ownership of your family andyour children.
You are their parent.
Um, the government does not ownthem.
And two, just, you know, theywill fall right back into
whatever the like you don't haveto worry about the rigorous
(23:20):
schedule with sitting down forreading and math and science and
history and art and you know,making sure they're learning
Latin and Greek, you know,they're gonna be just fine that
they are resilient and they'regonna learn what they want to
learn when they're ready tolearn it.
Do you have advice to theparents that are saying, you
(23:43):
know, I do have that inner childthat, you know, my parents did
things wrong with and I want tofix it?
Um, are there how do you evengo about doing that?
Do you need therapy?
Do you need, you know, or isthere stuff we can do at home?
Speaker 2 (23:57):
My advice is we're probably doing way more than we
need to be doing to makeourselves happy and
well-adjusted, giving kindpeople.
Most homeschoolers know thepeople that have been doing it
for a really long time, theyonly homeschool about two, three
(24:19):
hours a day.
The the experienced people whohave done it for long periods of
time.
I've only done it sporadicallyfor particular situations.
But the ones that have done itfor a long time, they know that
it doesn't take six hours orseven hours a day to teach
children what they need to knowfor each year of their growth.
(24:40):
The experts all talk aboutemotional intelligence being the
number one quality that makes aperson successful.
There's all kinds of researchabout this, and that is, in my
opinion, completely true.
If you can feel people, reademotions, take direction, have
self-discipline, these are allgodly qualities that we teach
(25:04):
our kid.
And you know, even the factthat when we're like, oh, you
have to do your homework becauseof this, I didn't tell my kids
that.
I didn't tell my kids go getA's.
I'm like, get at least C's.
That's it.
That's all I've told them.
And most of their classes, theyend up getting better grades
because I don't push them intoit.
I mean, I have that bottomlevel of what I expect.
(25:27):
And if you don't do that, I'llget involved.
But I don't have to push themto do it because they just they
know what they need to do now.
Especially my last kid when hegot a job.
He was able to put that stuffthat you learn from school in
into real life situations.
That's what we're lacking.
These kids don't have real lifeskills anymore because they've
(25:50):
just been told what to do.
I also want to say for ourfamily, I don't like team
sports.
Not my thing.
My son was into scootering andskateboarding at the skate park.
He has learned so manyrelational skills from having to
get along with other littleboys at a skate park with no
(26:11):
adults there.
I mean, yes, there's adultslooking and you know, but it's
not like a football team where afootball team, you know,
coaches saying, do this, dothat, don't do this, don't do
that.
They have to learn it in anatural way to relate to other
people.
Speaker 1 (26:26):
That makes so much sense.
Anya, thank you for being heretoday.
I um I hope the recording cameout smoothly.
I know we had a couple oftechnical errors, but what you
had to say was so inspirationaland really make people kind of
stop and think about what'sreally important.
So thank you so much for beinghere today.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
Are You A Charlotte?
In 1997, actress Kristin Davis’ life was forever changed when she took on the role of Charlotte York in Sex and the City. As we watched Carrie, Samantha, Miranda and Charlotte navigate relationships in NYC, the show helped push once unacceptable conversation topics out of the shadows and altered the narrative around women and sex. We all saw ourselves in them as they searched for fulfillment in life, sex and friendships. Now, Kristin Davis wants to connect with you, the fans, and share untold stories and all the behind the scenes. Together, with Kristin and special guests, what will begin with Sex and the City will evolve into talks about themes that are still so relevant today. "Are you a Charlotte?" is much more than just rewatching this beloved show, it brings the past and the present together as we talk with heart, humor and of course some optimism.