Instagram LIVE Event with Two Former Teachers of 20 Years Who Now Homeschool

What happens when dedicated teachers with advanced degrees and decades in the classroom realize the system isn't working for their own children? Two extraordinary educators share their journeys into the unknown world of homeschooling after collectively spending over 40 years in public education.

Deanna and Leigh Ann take us behind the curtain of their transition from traditional schooling to home education, revealing the personal "enough is enough" moments that pushed them to make radical changes for their families. One witnessed her son three grade levels behind in math catch up within six months. The other found herself peeking into a classroom to see her young son sitting dejected and crying behind a mask. These deeply human experiences—not academic theories—drove their decisions to create something different.

Both women candidly admit the learning curve was steep. They initially tried replicating school at home with rigid schedules and desk work before discovering that true learning looks radically different: conjugating verbs while jumping on trampolines, incorporating cooking as applied mathematics, and allowing natural curiosity to drive deeper investigation. With refreshing honesty, they discuss working full-time while homeschooling (yes, it's possible), the importance of "deschooling" before implementing formal curricula, and why Finland achieves 100% literacy by starting formal education at age seven.

Whether you're a curious parent wondering about alternatives, a teacher questioning the system, or a homeschooler seeking validation, this conversation offers practical wisdom without judgment. The message is clear: you don't need specialized credentials to educate your children. As Leanne says, "You can learn with them. If you don't know how to do it, learn alongside them." Their stories prove that sometimes the most powerful educational choice is simply choosing to do things differently.

Want to explore these ideas further? Connect with Deanna at "Dr. Deanna's Learning for Littles" on YouTube and check out Leigh Ann's book "Making the Switch" about her transition experience.

Making the Switch

Dr. Deanna's Learning for Littles YouTube Page

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey everybody, my name is Cheryl, I am host of the
Homeschool how To Podcast andI'm doing a live tonight with
Deanna and Leanne.
They are homeschooling moms andwe are going to be talking
about how to transition from thepublic school life to the
homeschooling life.

(00:20):
Okay, here, we go.

Speaker 2 (00:21):
We've got Leanne as well.

Speaker 1 (00:23):
Leanna, hi, deanna.
So thank you guys for joiningme tonight.
I kind of want to just get intodoing these lives because I
think it just benefits people tohear like like a day in the
life of a homeschooler honestly,and that's what my podcast is.
But I wanted to zero in tonighton how to transition from like
the public school life to thehomeschool life, cause if all

(00:45):
you know is you know get up at6am, get the kids on the bus and
you go to work and come homeand cook the dinner and do it
all over again, you kind of likeyou can't conceptualize what a
day in the life of a homeschoolschooler looks like For me.
I was like, oh my God, are wegoing to like have to learn how
to whittle and just whittle allday?

Speaker 2 (01:06):
Like what are we going?

Speaker 1 (01:06):
to be doing.
We're going to be staring ateach other, and now that I'm
doing it it is not the case atall.
But first I guess I'm going tothrow it over to Deanna, just
because you were the first onethat signed in.
But can you give us a littlebrief synopsis of your life, how
many kids you have and kind ofhow you got into the

(01:28):
homeschooling?

Speaker 2 (01:29):
Okay, so I have two boys.
They are now not littles, theyare bigs.
I'm actually graduating myoldest as a homeschool high
schooler this May.
I'm super excited.
But you know, I actually was inthe public school system as an
educator for over 20 years.
So it was a double whammy oftransitioning from this public

(01:54):
school idea of what learninglooked like and also kind of
transitioning my kids.
They were in a private schoolsetting.
But, yes, that schedule youknow.
So, yeah, that's my background.
I was a public school teacher.
I received my doctorate in 2019,just several months before the
pandemic hit.

(02:14):
I had totally different plansand it became really apparent
very quickly that I couldn'tstay in a system that was not
able to serve my own children.
Since then, I do have one thathas returned to a private school
setting.
That was his choice.
My other son was given thatoption and he has many times

(02:36):
repeatedly he's like I reallylove what I'm doing.
So you know I'm not shy aboutsharing that.
You know I want to be verytransparent.
You know I'm not shy aboutsharing that.
You know I want to be verytransparent.
But you know, yes, it's.

Speaker 1 (02:54):
It's definitely a learning curve, For sure.
That's interesting, and we'llget into that a little bit later
too, Because I've had people onthe podcast who said like, yeah
, my kids did decide to go backinto school, or some of them did
, some of them didn't.
So that's an interestingdynamic.
Leanne, how did you get intothe homeschooling world?
You were, were you a teachertoo.

Speaker 3 (03:09):
Yes, I was.
I taught for right at 20 years.
Also, I earned my secondmaster's degree in 2019, right
before the pandemic, yeah, so Itaught middle school for a long
time and I worked in a reallysmall district public school

(03:30):
district and a really smallschool.
I was a middle school teacher,but the school system that I
taught in was a K-8 system, sowe didn't have middle schools.
They went straight from theelementary to the high school.
And I had.
I had middle school studentsand my children went to school
with me every day and we allwent to the same building.
And at the time that I startedhomeschooling it's not something

(03:53):
that I really jumped intobecause of the pandemic.
I had already considered it forprobably a couple of years and
I kind of did some research.
I knew some homeschoolers, Idid a lot of talking to people,
started looking into the laws,started researching curriculums
and then, when the pandemichappened, it just was such a

(04:15):
good, it was just good timingand I actually wish that I had
done it at least six monthsbefore I did, because the year
that we were schooling through apandemic, I let my kids remain
with the public school systemand they were at home with me,
but I let them remain with theschool system.
And there's a lot of I have alot of regret with that.

(04:39):
I wish I had pulled them in,but I just kind of let it be,
because we were in the middle ofa year and I was like you know,
it'll be over soon, and then Ithought things would be
different the next year and wekind of went back in like a
hybrid situation.
Um so, but it was it just itjust didn't work.
It for me it just didn't workand I let my kids stay in school

(05:01):
that year because I didn't wantto pull them out in the middle
of the year.
I guess I thought I would beharming them somehow.
Again, a lot to regret there.
But at the end of that year Ifinally pulled them out of
school and I actually continuedto teach in the public school
system for three years while Ihomeschooled my kids and I just
quit my job this past year.
So I've been home with them.
This is our fourth year ofhomeschooling.

(05:21):
I've been home with them thisyear.
I have one in high school.
I have two boys and two girls.
I have one in high school.
She just she's ninth grade-ish.
I don't even know what grade mykids are in anymore.
I have one that's like middleschool.
He's a couple years youngerthan her.
I have one that's probablyabout third grade, and then I

(05:42):
have another one and I wasreally glad.
I mean, the timing for mequitting my job and staying home
with my kids was perfect,because my fourth one started
her kindergarten year this year.
So all four of them arehomeschooled and again, I've
given mine the option also to goback to school if they want to.
We don't have a good privateoption here, but I there was a

(06:04):
time when I wasn't sure I wasgoing to get to quit my job and
I told them you know, if youwant to go back to school, you
can.
I didn't know that it would bethe same school because I had
changed jobs.
But no, they didn't want to,they wanted to stay home.
So that's where we are.

Speaker 1 (06:20):
We're all home together now.
So now did you guys experiencethe?
We're just going to replicateschool at home because that's
what we all know.
You guys worked in the schoolsfor 20 years.
I went to school for 20 yearsand you know.
So it's sit at a desk, here'smath we're doing, you know, our
math worksheets, our math lesson, and then we're doing English,

(06:41):
and then we're doing reading,then we're doing spelling, and
we're sitting at a desk thewhole time.
Like is that kind of how youguys went right into it?
Or did you know?
Like there's another way, andit probably even from when you
guys got out of collegeinitially, there was a better
way to even teach kids then andthe regulations got more tight

(07:01):
and more tight as the years wenton and the tests got more
important or stricter.
So did you guys have this sortof like?
I'm replicating school at homeand, man, this is not working
period.
I'll let you go, deanna.

Speaker 2 (07:16):
You know so interestingly, to kind of go
back in history, our history,when the boys were super little,
I actually did homeschool themand we even had other friends of
the family bring their kids andthey became part of the little
homeschool setting and I share alot about that on my page and

(07:38):
everything.
But I had come to thatdetermination during that time
Okay, like I'm trying to be akindergarten teacher at home
with my own kids and that's notworking.
So when we got to that pointand part of our story as well is
basically the way that thingswere in the classroom it just

(08:03):
couldn't meet particularly myolder son's needs and it was
becoming a narrative for him.
That was the narrative that hewas being told was becoming his
narrative about his belief inhimself, and so a lot of that
became like I'll give you anexample and this isn't

(08:25):
everybody's story and I'm notsaying this is how it has to be
but when we started he was aboutthree grade levels behind in
math and our goal was just to dowhat he needed.
But within six months we hadcaught him up to grade level, to
where he would be now.
You know, we can talk aboutgrade levels.

(08:46):
I know that's kind of a verydifferent topic, but you know
his capabilities.
It just wasn't being met withinthe classroom box and he
started to realize he wascapable.
So for that purpose, when wetalk about replicating the
classroom, very quickly Irealized we needed to implement
different dynamics, such as wehad a trampoline and they were

(09:09):
taking a class with communitycollege they're Spanish and we
would conjugate verbs while theyjumped on the trampoline.
I mean, we were doing thesethings because, yes, sitting in
the desk wasn't working for them, right, and you know, nobody

(09:29):
was ever going to be able toteach him that dynamic of
completing his assignment or,you know, following through on a
task, until I scaffolded it forhim and that just wasn't
possible within a classroomsetting.
That's nothing on the teachersor anything, but we just needed
a different dynamic.
So, relatively quickly we hadgotten to that point where I

(09:53):
just knew it needed to be adifferent situation.
So we sat in the hammock, theycould sit in the beanbag,
wherever they were learning, aslong as if they had a task and
their core work was done.
Then that was really up to themto have that seating

(10:14):
arrangement that worked for them.

Speaker 1 (10:18):
Yeah, leanne.
What about you?
Did you replicate school athome at first, or did you kind
of know from the get-go likewe're doing this differently for
a reason?

Speaker 3 (10:26):
I think it's a little bit of yes and no.
I think you know it was prettyhardcore, ingrained into me.
And even now, even afterhomeschooling, you know, as long
as I have, I still have toremind myself sometimes.
I don't have to do it that wayanymore.
It's just, it's been what I'vedone done, that's what I've done
forever.
I, you know, I was a publicschool kid, I taught public
school for so long.

(10:47):
Um, I just, you know, I, I've,I have to remind myself of that.
So, yeah, in the beginning Ithink I probably did do a lot of
school at home and I have a lotof homeschool moms now that
will reach out to me and ask mequestions like what do I do now?
Like now that I've pulled mykid and I, I don I don't ever
want to tell anybody else whatthey have to do, but I do
encourage people, you know, takesome time and unschool, watch

(11:09):
movies together, read bookstogether, hang out together, go
on filter.
You don't have to do schoolright away, especially if
they're kind of detoxing.
I don't know that I should callit that, but that's essentially
what it is You're detoxing,yeah.

Speaker 2 (11:22):
And um, well, especially if it was a, there's
been some.
I hate to use this word becauseit's overused, but there's some
trauma associated with theclassroom setting.

Speaker 3 (11:32):
Quite honestly, and and that's that's.
That's something that I did notdo and I wish that I had.
So I guess I guess I'm talkingabout a lot of regret today, but
, um, you know, I I wish,looking back, I wish I had done
a little bit of that, because Ihave a pretty similar experience
.
You know, my, one of my, my twoboys are my middle, my middle

(11:52):
kids and my oldest son had had areally hard year the year
before and they had the optionof either virtually schooling or
being an in-person student.
But even when they werein-person, they were only
in-person student.
But even when they were inperson, they were only in person
part-time, they were virtualthe other part of the time.
It was a very confusing, crazything which meant they were
staring at screens all day,regardless of whether.

(12:14):
I mean, there was no point inreally even bringing them home
virtually or sending them toschool, because they were pretty
much staring at a screen mostof the time anyway.
But he, I just remember one daywalking down the hall because I
had a different position at thetime, I was not in the
classroom all the time.
So I just remember walking downthe hall one day and I walked

(12:36):
by his classroom and I justthought I'll peek in and he was
sitting at his desk with a maskon.
You know, he was very dejectedand he was crying.
And he was probably dejectedand he was crying and he was
probably about eight or nineyears old and I was like, yeah,
we're done, I'm done.
He had been at school in personfor three days and so I was
like, okay, we're going to bevirtual so he can lay in his bed

(12:56):
and do his work or not do hiswork, because his work wasn't,
his work wasn't even really thatimportant at the time.
And so, yeah, I really wantedto just kind of step back and he
was my child that had had anADHD diagnosis.
He's since then been diagnosedwith dyslexia and generally did
not care much for school andhe's still just like well

(13:19):
learning whatever he loves tolearn.
But he wants to learn what hewants to learn, and math and
science and social studies, Likethose were not his things.
So, um, the the funny thing isthat at the time I knew that he
was probably very far behind asfar as like grade level went.
I would say if I were to puthim back in school right now, he

(13:40):
probably still would be.
But we're where he.
I met him where he was.
I figured out what absolutelythat's where we are and he is
where he is and I don't have tocompare him to anyone else or
where anyone else is anymore andI I just he's.
He does really well in the the.
I guess the craziest thing is wedo a lot of the like hey, it's

(14:03):
really pretty, let's go doschool outside and we'll do it
on the patio.
Or, you know, I'll give themside, like my youngest son when
he was doing spelling words.
I'd give him sidewalk chalk andget and say go write your
spelling words in the driveway.
Or you know, we do gardeningSometimes.
I'll let them come out thereand do that.
We go for walks, things likethat.
But yeah, we do.

(14:39):
We do still sit down at thetable and do school work, but
when we need a change we havethe opportunity to do that.
You know, sometimes we we justdon't do it at all If we're just
having a rough time outside andclean the yard or we're going
to do yard work or we're goingto do housework or whatever.
And when we get done, if westill have time for reading or
math, we'll do it.
But if not, because those arelearning opportunities and those
are hands-on things that theyneed to learn.
You know, that's real world.
I take them in the kitchen andlet them cook um, my kids can

(15:01):
all, even my eight-year-old, andhe of course still needs some
help but my kids can all cooksomething in the kitchen
unassisted and just ask me forhelp when they need it.
And before homeschooling thatwas not.
I mean, I didn't even try tosend them in there, you know,
because for me it was go to work, come home, rush to get dinner
on the table and we schooledwhile we were eating and they

(15:24):
they would go to bed right afterwe were finished with school.
It was an all day thing, and sonow it's relaxed, and so I
didn't.
I didn't do that sort of in thebeginning.
Looking back, I kind of wish Ihadn't.
But we have transitioned alittle bit so that sometimes we
do school at home and sometimeswe don't.
But it look, even when we aredoing it it looks different.

(15:47):
And my, my oldest son, who wasthe most reluctant about school,
when I, when I, offer to dosomething different, he's the
one who's like let's just sit atthe table and do our book work
and he.
I never thought he would saysomething like that, but he's
okay with it now Cause it's, youknow, it's his individually,
and so his perspective is alittle different.

Speaker 1 (16:10):
Yeah, I love that and I I think the biggest
realizations for me doing thepodcast and talking to you guys
and other homeschooling familieswas like that.
There, for instance, familystyle learning is like a
different way you can presentinformation to multiple children
at multiple different ages.
You might be doing the same,you know World War II, but each

(16:35):
grade or level is going to havea different level of what they
have to complete to get you knowtheir work accomplished, have
to complete to get you knowtheir work accomplished.
You know, and it's so funnybecause like reading the kids
books that I'll get from thelibrary I use book lists, like

(16:56):
you know, read aloud, revival,and so they're not books that I
typically would have just goneto the library and picked out
myself.
But you know, because somebodyelse smarter than I am did I'm
reading them and I'm like likewow, I never learned this in
school and like I'm learning somuch about, you know, the Hudson
River, the way a butterfly anda cocoon, you know what happens
in the springtime and um, it'slike so eye-opening.

(17:18):
So I love that and I also lovethe idea of like and I'm sure
you can do this on all differentunit studies, but like,
specifically, a nature studywhere you are learning within
that topic of learning about,say, springtime You're learning
about, you're doing reading,writing.
You can incorporate math in that.
You know whether it be countingthe eggs that the chicken had.

(17:40):
You know cooking.
There's math in everything.
You just have to pull it outfrom.
You know, find it.
History, geography, economics,like art, poetry, music all of
this stuff can be integratedinto, like this one, like lesson
that you're doing a day on thistopic and when the hour or two

(18:02):
hours is done and you've, youknow done a nature walk and you
know done a little bit ofartwork or a craft or baked
something, read a book, you knowwrote a story about it.
It's like, oh well, you'vealready done every single
subject that you had to do basedaround this interesting topic
that we might've all pickedtogether and it's like, wow,
what, what a beautiful way tolearn.

(18:26):
Like it's.
It's just so different thanwhere we think of in the school,
like, okay, nine differentsubjects all in their 38 minute
time block and when we hear thatbell it's time to turn it off.
And you know, turn on yourreading cap.
You know, turn off math.
You know science can beincorporated in everything.
So, yeah, that it was likereally eyeopening for me and it

(18:47):
took almost, you know, a year ortwo of talking to homeschooling
families to be like wow, that'sreally a way we can do this
learning at home.
Deanna, I know you you have thecutest YouTube page is my son
and I watch it.
You are like Miss Rachel andBlippi mixed together with like

(19:08):
phonics.

Speaker 2 (19:09):
Thank you, I love.
I mean, honestly, it's like andI think I shared this recently
in a reel it's like realizingthat, even though I left that
behind, I didn't have to stopsharing that.
You know, and my boys are at apoint where that's not their
world, you know.
They're at a different place inlife, right, and that's to that

(19:31):
point.
You know one thing, and I thinkthere's a lot of parents that
if they're wondering if they canhandle that task and tackle,
you know, teaching, maybe evenoutside their range I mean, I
was a K through three lady.
I always thought and props toyou because I always thought,

(19:52):
like middle schoolers would likeeat me for lunch and spit me
out like you know, um.
But you know, I had to reallyget outside my comfort zone.
I had to be okay with notknowing, I had to be okay with
looking for resources and I hadto be okay with saying, all
right, we're going to workdeductively and we're going to

(20:13):
say what are his goals and whatdoes he need for his goals?
And in order to do that, inorder to have the opportunities
that he wants, what does he need, not what do others think he
needs?
So you know, that was.
That was very you know like.
For instance, we we do coreclasses where he's meeting

(20:34):
certain requirements so that hecould.
He's going into cinematographyand at the time he wanted to do
architecture.
So we were looking at from thatperspective and what do you
need for that Um and stuff?
But at the same time, we stilltook two days a week and we did
unschooling, and unschooling forus was it was he drove the day,

(20:58):
the projects.
Now there were some parameters.
Like you can't just be, youknow, gaming all day.
I mean, if there's a specificthing you're working on and or
you, you know, do you want thatto be part of your day?
But there was, there had to besome parameters and he has built
so many.
He built my green screen in 24hours.

Speaker 1 (21:19):
So I was going to ask if he's going into some
cinematography.
Does he edit your videos forYouTube?
He does, I mean so.
So so I just want to comment onthis how beautiful is this that
you ended your 20-year careerin the school system to start
teaching kids online, where youhave been able to foster your

(21:40):
son's love of cinematography, towhere you guys can now work
together to make these awesomevideos like that's.
That's homeschooling oh my god,I love it this testament to.

Speaker 2 (21:51):
And there's been hard moments, like in the beginning
you really realize, oh wow, weneed to.
There's some seasoning herethat needs to happen, you know.
And some really difficultmoments where he had to grow in
in, skills out, because he'sextremely talented.
I mean, he has built.
He built a computer oneafternoon this weekend for a
friend he installed.

(22:11):
I mean, he's just incredible.
But there were some skill setswe've developed throughout this
where he's learned how tointeract, how to communicate.
Now he'll come to me and say,hey, mom, you know, I had this
thing coming up this week and Iwas thinking can we, you know,
schedule to work on this on suchand such day?
Yeah, because before he didn'thave that skill set.
That skill set is not somethinghe was going to learn in the

(22:34):
classroom, the skill sets thathe needed to work on.
And we have a very similarsituation, no-transcript.
And what I feel that we've beenable to do here is we've been

(22:57):
able to.
Yes, we have to address that,we have to season the pot, we
have to get him growing in thoseareas so that he can enter the
world and be a successful humanbeing to what his potential is
right, but at the same time,nurture his strengths, honor his
strengths.
He's out there building a deckthat he designed around a tree

(23:21):
and he laid concrete.
And I'm like, have you everlaid concrete?
No, my dad brought thematerials for mine.
What's that I'm putting inconcrete?
And I'm like, okay, and he did,and it's beautiful.
He just does these things, andso that's one thing, for if
you're navigating homeschoolinga child that is outside, you

(23:42):
know what you think that you cantackle.
Look for those resources, lookfor the community.
That would be a huge thing.
He has an eBay store.
He packaged a whole guitar tomail and he created the whole
packaging, took him three hoursand I'm like that's geometry,
that's packaging engineering.

(24:02):
You know, that's an assessmentof his real knowledge, and that
was it to me.
It's amazing because it's wayoutside my wheelhouse and that
was one of my biggest fears wasthat I wasn't going to be able
to meet that.
But I just gave him theresources and found the
resources, and you know let him.

Speaker 1 (24:24):
I love that.
That's so awesome.
And then, leanne, you wrote abook.
Is it about your experienceleaving the school system to
homeschool and how to do that?
Is it like a how to?

Speaker 3 (24:39):
Um, yes and no.
It's sort of like part how toand part memoir.
I guess, um, uh, I guess therewas a little bit of um conflict
of interest when you work in the, in the public school system.
But you homeschool your kidsand I was pretty vocal about it,
I wasn't shy about it.
You know, homeschool your kidsand I was pretty vocal about it,
I wasn't shy about it.

(24:59):
You know, when I left um, I hadthree kids in public school
with me.
One of them had just donepreschool.
That was as far as he hadgotten and he doesn't even
really remember that.
But, um, so two of my kids havereally been, like you know,
completely homeschooled and theother two, they remember being
in school and, um know, a hugechunk of their school career so
far was spent in public school.

(25:20):
So it was a little bit ofconflict of interest.
I had students walking up to mein the middle of the day saying
are you going to send them backnext year?
Are they coming back?
When are they coming back?
And it was hard because itdidn't take long for me to
realize that unless they weren'thappy, I was never going to
send them back.
Um, you know that was nevergoing to be in our immediate

(25:43):
plans, um, and I can never saynever, but I just knew that it
wasn't something that we had, wewere planning on, and so I
would just say no, no, we'rehappy where we are.
And, um, it was hard because alot of people ask questions.
A lot of people ask questionsout of concern.
I think they worried that wewere doing something we

(26:04):
shouldn't be doing or that wehad secrets, or that.
You know, people, just peopleare curious, people don't, and I
think a lot of people were justgenuinely like hey, I don't
know anything about it, what'sit about?
So I just I was blogging alittle bit at the time and I
started kind of writing and itsort of morphed into a book,

(26:25):
just kind of telling ourexperience in transition,
because for three years I wasworking every day and then going
home and homeschooling my kidsand people just didn't get it.
They just didn't understand andI didn't understand.
You know, when I started doingit, I didn't know.
I knew homeschoolers.
People just didn't get it.
They just didn't understand andI didn't understand.
You know, when I started doingit, I didn't know.
I knew homeschoolers, um, but Ididn't really understand what
it was about what it entailed,um, and so, yeah, it's pretty

(26:47):
much just about kind of ourstory and um, you know about
resources that you can use ifyou're transitioning like we did
and what like, because there'sa lot of people who are working
and they're like well, I wouldhomeschool, but I have to work.

Speaker 1 (27:04):
What did you do with the kids during the day while
you were at work?
I get that question a lot.

Speaker 3 (27:08):
Well, I can't homeschool.
I would love to homeschool butI can't cause I work and I would
be like, oh, so do I here I amat work, because that's when I
would get it sometimes.
But, um, yeah, it was justdifferent.
I had, um, I had a babysitterfor my youngest when she was
really little.
Um, I would take her to ababysitter, which killed my soul
every day.
But I did it, um, until I and,and there was always the plan

(27:31):
for me to be at home with them.
But sometimes that's just notan overnight thing, you know,
that's just something that youknow.
Know, when you're bringing inum, I didn't bring in a huge.
You know, I was a teacher.
I didn't make that much money,but I was bringing in probably a
third of the income at the timeand it was, you know, paying
our mortgage and so we had tohave a place to live, right, so

(27:58):
I had, I didn't have to workeven, and there was even a time
when I thought maybe I would getto be home part time and work
part time.
But I did.
I took my youngest one to asitter when she got to be a
little bit older and I finallygot to where I had teenagers.
I actually kind of lost mysitter, not unexpectedly.
She gave us a little bit of aheads up, but I didn't have a
lot of time between transitionand so we ended up at a

(28:21):
preschool four days a week andthen I would have my husband,
because my husband works a veryodd shift so he would be able to
be home with her like one day aweek.
And so we kind of we kind oftransitioned into that like one
day a week.
And so we kind of we kind oftransitioned into that.
And then eventually it was um,once her school, her preschool,

(28:41):
was over, or on that one day aweek that she wasn't in
preschool, my teenage daughterwould keep her at home with her
Um.
And then my youngest son, youknow he was um, he was at, he
was school age, so he was reallytoo old to be at the babysitter
.
He was school age, so he wasreally too old to be at the
babysitter and honestly itwasn't in our budget for me to
send two kids to the babysitterat the time.

(29:03):
So he stayed home with myteenage daughter.
But he's always been prettyself-sufficient and well-behaved
so I didn't worry so much abouthim.
But we just kind of got alongthe best we could and literally
there were weeks that weliterally like it was day to day
.

Speaker 1 (29:23):
Like, okay, today we're doing this, what are we
going to do tomorrow?
Um, and we did that, we didthat for years.
Well, I can imagine that.
That, yeah, that feels like amI doing the right thing?
Because what are they doing allday?
Are they on their games?
Are they on the internet?
Are they sitting in the couchall day?
Are they doing anythingproductive?
Are they just better off in theschool system?
Or at least I can pop in andlook at them crying in their
classroom?
Yeah, but like, did that gothrough your mind?

Speaker 3 (29:45):
Yeah, I had, thankfully, you know, it really
worked out when I went the veryfirst year that I homeschooled
them, I changed jobs.
So I continued to work in thesame school district but I got a
district job so that I was ableto have a little more
flexibility and a little morefreedom.

(30:06):
I could call home in the middleof the day what's everybody
doing?
My daughter had a phone and Icould, and she's always been
pretty trustworthy.
So even if, like, the boys wereup to no good, she would, she
would ride on them.
So I could ask her like, hey,what are the boys doing?
And she would tell me, um, if Iwas going to, uh, be driving by

(30:28):
my house, um, for, you know,going from one school cause I
traveled to different schools inthe district, I could stop in
and check on them.
There were days that I would gopick up a pizza because there
was a pizza place between myoffice and my house and my house
was maybe five minutes from myoffice.
It was a really short drive.
I would pick up a pizza andbring it home, because I could

(30:49):
take 30 minutes to come home andeat lunch with them.
So I would drop in on them or Iwould call them at first it's,
you know it was reallyproductive.
I would give them things to doand say X, y, z has to be done
when I get home, and it might bean assignment, you know, it
might be a math worksheet, orthey might have to read a
chapter from their book, itwould, it would just be, you

(31:11):
know, whatever, um, nothing thatthey couldn't do without me,
and it would.
There would usually be a choreor two.
Everybody has a chore, and allof it has to be done when I get
home.
And if it's not done when I gethome, you know, there's going
to be a consequence.
So that was really how westarted out, just so that I
could make sure there was some,some productivity.
And of course my husband washome some during the day so that

(31:32):
he could kind of manage thattoo, could kind of manage that
too.
It sort of that sort of evolvedinto lots of sleeping late,
which really didn't bother mebecause they were kids and they
needed to sleep.
So they would sleep late and Iwould come home and say what
time did you guys get up?
And it would be 10 or 11.
So they would be sleeping halfof my workday.
You know, sometimes I wouldcome home and things didn't get

(31:55):
done.
And I would, I would say, okay,you know, we're not, we're
going to lose this consequenceor whatever.
But, um, you know, for the mostpart they just kind of hung out
together and they might watchmovies together or you know
whatever.
But you know we, and as soon asI would come in the door they
would know it's time to go.
Um, and so we would.
You know, we would do whateverour routine was in the afternoon

(32:18):
.
But it wasn't ideal.
I did not love the situationbut and there were times that I
thought I would be better offsending them to school, but I
did not love the mad rush in themorning or school.
I didn't want to do that.
I didn't want to do it tomyself, but I definitely didn't
want to do it to my kids anymore.

(32:41):
It had it had become reallystressful to get four kids up
ready to go to school.
Um, you know, it was just a lotand kids that were very
reluctant to go to school atthat.
And, um, you know, we had some.
We had some issues at schoolthat, especially with my oldest
daughter and classmates, and Ijust, I just thought, thought
you know, they're better off athome and there's three of them
together, so and they, they getalong for the most part.

(33:02):
So ultimately it was just wekind of got by the best we could
for as long as we could.
I'm glad to be home with themnow, and I'm they're better off
with me home, but we did thebest we could for for that time
yeah, and I I think that's soimportant because the people,
yes, they always ask how could Iwork and do this?

Speaker 1 (33:21):
And, yeah, whether it's asking the grandparents for
help, hiring a babysitter, alocal homeschooling family that
has teenagers that could, maybe,you know, maybe they want to
intern or whatever, and be theau pair or a teacher to your
kids or earn some money.
There's so many resources outthere.
Go ahead, deanna.

Speaker 3 (33:40):
I would always just tell people when they would ask
me that you know you make timefor the things that are really
important to you, andhomeschooling is important to us
, so we make the time for it.
And me working full time justmeant that I had to be a little
more vigilant.
Was it hard?
Yes, could I have used workingas an excuse to not homeschool?

(34:01):
Yes, but homeschooling wasimportant and that's what we
make.
You know we make time for thosethings that are important to us
, so that's what we did.

Speaker 1 (34:09):
Yeah, yeah, I left my government job of 16 years so I
just hit my six-figure salaryand I was like, oh, this is like
all I wanted.
I was like I don't ever have totake another test again, I'm
where I want to be, just retireand make 60 of my salary to like
die.
And yeah, well, that changed.

(34:31):
So but I just I had a post theother day that I was just
looking through some of thecomments on it because it was me
holding my baby.
She had, well, my two and ahalf year old, but she had a
stomach ache when she woke upfrom her nap.
So she just crawled back on meand fell asleep and I was just
kind of like, wow, how manytimes did my son have a stomach
ache at daycare?
And I didn't know because I wasin my cubicle and maybe he was

(34:53):
uncomfortable to tell somebody,or maybe he didn't know if it
was bad enough to tell somebody,or they didn't know if it was
bad enough to call me, and youknow.
So they just kind of shufflethem to the next activity.
Oh, do your coloring first orgo sit and watch TV, but like he
didn't have mom there and Ijust, you know like how many
like you were mentioning withthe sleep.
I mean, she was done with hernap but she crawled back up on

(35:15):
me and fell back to sleepbecause she was so tired,
obviously fighting something.
And it's like even just in themornings when my kids they
generally do sleep late so thatthey can spend more time in the
evenings with my husband when hegets home from work.
So we do go to bed between 10and 11 and they get up between 8
and 930.
But that works, like you know,I'll get up and do podcast stuff

(35:39):
at you know, five, 36.
So, um, yeah, like just to lettheir body sleep until they're
ready to wake up.
When you think of, like, thesynapses that are growing and
making connections in their head, or maybe they're fighting a
bacteria or germ or virus orsomething, or they're having a
growth spurt, um, all this stuffthat when we're like jolting

(35:59):
them awake at 5.30am to rush,rush, rush, rush, rush I was
even thinking about that theother day I'm like my whole life
my mother just rushed meeverywhere we went and, like the
lady is 77 years old Now she isstill rushing places like you
have nowhere to go, you havenowhere to be, you have no job,
you don't have any like childrenliving with you, you have two
little dogs there's nowhere torush to.

(36:21):
And she's still like, come on,we gotta go.
I'm like, wow, that's just soingrained in her.
I don't know how she has nothad some sort of heart attack
from this or me, but I stillnoticed that in myself because I
like heard that from her for somany years and it's like I'm
trying to break the cycle now tolike, no, just let them like

(36:41):
relax and wake up.
And we went to a play grouptoday.
I said I'd be there between 12and 12 30.
I got there at 1 15.
I'm like, how do people get towork in school?
I don't know how I ever did it,because I can't even get two
kids somewhere at noon.
What was like the biggest?

(37:01):
Like if you could tattle nowabout not, and then, like you
mentioned before, it's not theteacher's fault and I get in
trouble for saying stuff, butit's like, no, I know it's not
the teacher's fault, they'restuck in a system.
They're getting underpaid andunder-resourced.
More kids, more requirements.
But like there's also thissocietal thing about school,

(37:22):
like the kids, the social media,all this stuff happening
younger and younger that wenever had to deal with when I
was going into school.
I'm 41.
We did not have social mediawhen I was in school, or phones
with internet.
How, like, what are some of theawful things that you saw that
you were like okay, I reallydon't want this for my kids.
Like, was there anything thatstuck?

Speaker 2 (37:44):
out Well, okay, so yes, um.
So we initially, actually,after starting off with the
homeschooling setup, we wentinto the public school setting
for a very brief time and I hada colleague whose children went
to the same school and her sonwas very similar to my son and I

(38:05):
watched some things unfold withthat child who's brilliant.
And then I remember thesituation that happened in
kindergarten with my son and Iwent to work and I shared it
with my colleague and she saidyou're kidding me.
They did the same exact thingto my son and I was seeing the
path that her child was takingand I saw what was going to

(38:29):
transpire.
And we have a thing it's calledthe school to prison pipeline
and even if you want, like,let's say, you have a child that
is struggling behaviorally anda parent wants to look for
resources for them, they cannotoffer those wraparound type
resources until your child hasan encounter with either the

(38:51):
judicial system or the police.
So you're talking about a very,very a system that is built in
where we use suspension, takingaway recess, very consequent.
Now, I'm not againstconsequences Life has
consequences, right but whenyou're dealing with a child

(39:15):
whose maybe brain isn't evenworking in the same way and
they're not making thoseconnections.
I mean, I myself I was a veryquiet student.
I went for three years withoutever completing my work, but I
was reading at a high schoollevel when I was eight and they
kept passing me along.
But I remember sitting everyrecess wondering what I was
doing wrong, why couldn't I getmy work done like the other kids
.
But I remember sitting everyrecess wondering what I was

(39:36):
doing wrong, why couldn't I getmy work done like the other kids
.
But I also was making patternsout of the number system on the
page, the word, you know, I wasgiving myself.
What I know now is brain breaks.
But nobody ever asked me hey,why is that hard for you?
You know, you're reading at ahigh school level, you know.
And so I saw this type of thingstart to transpire with my son

(40:00):
and, um, you know, we went to aprivate setting.
Um, there were things thatworked until it didn't.
And I was watching a child comehome absolutely destroyed,
destroyed, with a narrative thatI knew was pedagogically like

(40:20):
incorrect, you know, but this isthe narrative that he was
receiving.
And I've been criticized forleaving the education system
because there's so much going onin education.
But, honestly, these childrenhave one mom and my biggest
responsibility to society is toget these children and raise

(40:44):
them to be the humans that theywere created to be.
And that's what I did, that'swhat I left to do.
And so you know, I saw a lot ofthis.
My son is dysgraphic and he hadan ed psych report and he was
not um permitted to be given theaccommodations that the ed

(41:06):
psych recommended.
Uh, because they called itborderline cheating, that he was
not copying the words, thevocabulary words, from the board
, and this is the message my sonwas being given.
So this is what I decided thatwe were going to flip the switch
, flip the narrative.
And you know what, pretty soonas I scaffolded it, he began to

(41:29):
do those tasks on his own.
When he took community collegeclasses, they would say you get
extra credit if you write out,hand, write out the notes.
And I say, hey, you know what.
You have accommodations, youhave an ed psych report, you
know?
He goes no, I'm going to dothis, it was his decision.
Okay, as long as you knowwhat's available to you, you

(41:49):
know how we can request.
No, I want to do this.
That was his decision, but hechose that for himself right at
that point because he had gottento the point where he could
manage that task.
It took him extra effort, a lotof extra effort, but that was
the decision he wanted to do forhimself.
But when he was in a situationin the classroom where the

(42:09):
teacher then would just erasebefore he could even write it
down, and my mom was let me talkabout career education she was
a principal when I was growingup.
That's why I'm not a principal.
She was an amazing principal,an award-winning principal.
But let me tell you, it neverends.
It's lonely at the top.
I didn't want that.
I won't even get my admincredential.

(42:30):
I had people tell me please getyour admin.
Nope, I don't want anything todo with that.
But anyway, she was workingwith my son and she told my son
one day.
She said sweetheart, nobodythere's going to help you.
We're going to have you know.
So this is what I had to removehim from.
I had to remove him from thatand I have this confident.

(42:50):
I have this confident child.
He just took his firstinternational trip on his own.
He just flew overseas myfather-in-law, my husband's from
Norway.
So it's a trip he's done beforehe now.
Did he miss his flight inGermany?
Yeah, he did, but you know what?
We coached him through how tonavigate that and it cost us a

(43:10):
couple hundred dollars to fix it.
But you know what?
It was the most life learninghe's ever done in his 18.
He's now 18.
And so you know that's anotherthing that homeschooling and
having that flexibility in theschedule has allowed us to do,
because we do have a familydynamic that has family overseas
, so it's allowed for more ofthose connections.
And then when he gets back andthere's that jet lag, we can

(43:34):
account for that.
And I feel that the learningthat he gets just from
navigating the travel alone noteven to take into consideration
the cultural factors and hisfamily heritage and all of that
is enormous.
And he's going to college.
In the fall he went to admittedstudents day today at biola.
Um, I dropped him off andeverything.

(43:59):
But you know it's going to be atransition, but I feel like
these experiences, okay, there'sgoing to be a learning curve,
but it's okay.
He has so much going for himand that's a message what?
is the school to prison pipelinethat you mentioned the prison
pipeline is basically um, andyou can get into all sorts of

(44:23):
demographics, um and and stuffthat it affects, but it's
basically that we start, veryyoung, suspending our children.
Now there are some things thatwe absolutely cannot tolerate.
There's just no question, um,and we definitely need to have
parents more involved.
That's a different topic.
But instead of seeing what's atthe root and the core, we're

(44:48):
suspending students and we're ina very chaotic system right now
.
I I have to tell you, I sawcolleagues that had their whole
rooms torn apart by akindergarten student.
That was an extreme, not justonce or twice, okay, this was a
regular occurrence because thestudent was in distress, she was

(45:09):
destroying the classroom.
They would have to evacuate.
These are five-year-olds, youknow.
And then after school, theteacher my colleague would then,
you know, have.
Then after school, the teachermy colleague would then, you
know, have to reconstruct, putthe books back on the shelves,
try to staple up the bulletin.
But we're we're dealing with avery but then the answer to that
is suspension or other measuresthat are punitive but they're

(45:33):
not really getting to the coreof the.
You know the issue at heart andthere's just a lot that goes
into that.
But what I did see was therewas a situation that happened in
the first grade.
My son now was in the publicschool system and they were
going to suspend him and Ithought first of all it wasn't

(45:58):
even reasonable and I thought,you know, we're talking about a
first grader, he didn't threatenanybody, he didn't do bodily
harm, it wasn't anything to that.
But the first thing was we'regoing to suspend him and I could
see it and I told you I hadwitnessed the path before of

(46:21):
other people that were travelingdown that path and how, you
know, if we don't channelstudents, especially students
that are gifted or twiceexceptional, that have those
overlapping their ADHD and theyhave gifted characteristics, and
we don't learn how to channelthose characteristics, then

(46:41):
we're focusing on theirweaknesses and their deficits,
not building up their strengths.
And there's a lot ofinteresting research about who's
in the prison system and theirexperiences in education.

Speaker 1 (47:00):
Yeah, yeah, the reason I asked was because I had
had somebody on my podcast acouple of weeks or I just
released it, gabrielle and shehad said she worked in the
school system and there was, youknow, when she found out that
they were using third gradereading test scores to predict
how many prison beds they wouldneed, you know, that shocked her

(47:21):
and she didn't want to be partof this anymore.
And they weren't actuallyfixing the situation, they were
just making more prisons, andyou know.
So you know, I had kind oflooked into it a little and made
a post about it on my Instagrampage and then people were
writing on it saying that is nottrue, do not post things that
are not accurate.
And I was like, well, okay,well, why are you saying it's
not accurate?
So I looked up and it is truethat the statistic of your you

(47:46):
know reading scores of the thirdgrade will predict, it is true,
whether it's.
Are they making more beds, arethey building more prisons, is
kind of the controversial thing.
So when you looked it up withthe fact checkers, you know
Politico is like this is not atrue statement, they do not make

(48:07):
more prison beds because ofthird grade test scores it was
like okay, but the poor thirdgrade test scores does predict
how many future people are inthe prison.
So are we changing what we'redoing at around that third grade
and lower mark to make surethat these kids are able to read

(48:30):
yes, so that they don't end uplike that?
That's what we're trying tolike focus on.
That was the point of the post,and people like it's not a true
statement because they're notreally building prison and they
miss a whole point the statisticis still what it is.
So we've got to get to thesekids before third grade and

(48:52):
there are places like Finlandthat don't even open up.
They don't do any formaleducation before age seven.
So what are we doing wrong ifthey're not doing anything other
than play?
They're doing play, they'reoutside, they're experiencing
friendships and fresh air andnature and they're not even

(49:13):
opening up a textbook and theydon't have the same issues that
we're having.
What we're doing somethingwrong?
Because we now we've got kidsthat go to all day school, at
preschool and you know so.
It's like that's where it'sgetting at.
So, leah, and you're nodding,what well, what do you have to?
It's?

Speaker 3 (49:31):
like I just, of course, and I'm I'm in my 40s,
I'm 43 years old.
I went to kindergarten half aday and and I just had this
conversation with with somefriends recently I was like you
know, but when I was inkindergarten we had this really
sweet teacher and we colored andwe painted and we did crafts
and we played with Play-Doh.

(49:52):
We went outside and we ate asnack or lunch or something.
I think we might have even hadlike a 15 minute nap, rest,
something, I don't know.
And then we went home.
I remember sitting in a desk Imight have sat at a table with
friends, but I don't remembersitting in a desk and doing any

(50:13):
kind of work.
And I could read when I startedkindergarten.
But I could read because mymother had read books to me.
She had not sat me down andtaught me how to read, but she
had read books to me bedtimestories and I had picked up on
words and, yeah, I could read.
I wasn't probably a fluentreader, but I could read a
little bit when I startedkindergarten.

(50:34):
And now I look at my two oldestchildren, who went to school and
I was told that my son wasbehind at the end of his
kindergarten year and I felthorrible because the person that
he had as his kindergartenteacher was lovely, she was
beautiful, she was sweet, shewas kind, she loved the kids.

(50:55):
She and I were colleagues.
I adored her.
But I was told that my childwas behind at the end of his
kindergarten year and she reallydidn't seem that concerned
about it because, she knows,like it's okay, he was only.
You know, he had just turnedsix, a few couple months before
he finished kindergarten.
But she was like, you know, heis a little bit, he's a little

(51:15):
bit behind.
Well, why is he behind?
Well, he's not reading.
So he's six.
Who cares?

Speaker 2 (51:23):
Yes, average age is six to seven.

Speaker 3 (51:25):
Yes, and the crazy thing is that we're forcing
things like that on kids at sucha young age and then they get
to third grade and they stillcan't read.
Well, how about we let themlearn when it's when it's time
for them to learn?
And I have read research I'venot done the research, but I've

(51:45):
read research that a child canlearn to read as late as like 10
years old.
And as an adult, you can't tellthe difference between a child
who learned to read at five anda child who learned to read at
10.
So why are we forcing this onour kids?
Why not just let let themnaturally come to it?
And it's because ofstandardized testing, it's

(52:06):
because it's just, it'sridiculous.
We're we're forcing so much onthem that it's having a negative
effect and and we're labelingkids with, we're slapping IEPs
and 504s and things on kids whomay not even need it.
Meanwhile we have some kids whodo and they don't get it at all
.
It's, it's broken.

(52:27):
I don't understand it at all.

Speaker 2 (52:29):
Yeah, you know, speaking to your point is
actually been shown that kidswho we have a developmental
spectrum of reading, and it'sanywhere from three to eight and
we have those outliers Well,the average age is six to seven,
right?
And so somehow our answer toour literacy crisis is to teach

(52:50):
them younger, even though we seethat the places in the world
that are the most successfulNorway and I know this for a
personal fact, my husband grewup there Hundred percent
literacy, finland.
Hundred percent literacy,ninety five or seven, something
like that, graduation rates, ok,we're talking astronomical
success and yet and it's so wildto me because anytime I dare to

(53:15):
bring this up I lose followersI have people totally say you
know what's wrong with it.
There's absolutely nothingwrong with a child learning to
read if they're ready, but it'sdevelopmental, just like walking
is developmental.
So what if I said teach yourchild to walk at six months?
You'd think I was nuts.

(53:37):
I mean, maybe there are somesix months old that are ready,
but that's an outlier, right.
And so what I'm finding out isit's so interesting to me
because the research actuallyindicates that children that are
taught those skills beforethey're developmentally ready
they actually plateau or losetheir advance and even maybe

(54:02):
don't continue to progress bythe time they're in third grade,
and that's the time where weswitch from learning to read to
reading to learn.
That's why they're in thirdgrade, and that's the time where
we switch from learning to readto reading to learn.
That's why they use those testscores.
And so what I'm trying to helppeople understand is you know,
you're missing so manycomponents.

(54:23):
I'm not talking whole language.
I'm not talking whole language.
I'm talking about phonemicawareness, phonological
awareness.

Speaker 1 (54:32):
They're taking rhyming out of curriculum in
kindergarten because you don'tgive us and that's part of the
phonics right being able to hearthe beginning, the middle, the
end and pull out the middle andthe end and, yes, well, switch
out the first sound that.

Speaker 2 (54:49):
That's the phonological awareness.
Phonemic awareness it's a kindof an umbrella category and and
and what like rhyming.
Okay, so let's just say wedon't have to rhyme to learn to
read, but we know that kids thatcan rhyme outpace their peers
all the way into third, fourthgrade.

(55:09):
So, yes, dyslexia and all ofthose things, oftentimes we see
trouble with rhyming, but thereason they're using research
that applies to dyslexia to makea decision for all students
Instead of saying, all right,this is what's good for
long-term reading.

(55:30):
Maybe some children are goingto have a harder time with that
and we know why.
But we still shouldn't take theopportunity away from them to
learn or be exposed to thatskill.
Children that enterkindergarten knowing seven
nursery rhymes, they outpacetheir peers because they have
fluency.

(55:50):
They have fluency vocabulary.
Um, there's so much, and again,I'm not talking whole language.
Phonics is important, but we'remissing the forest from the
tree and every time I say it Ipeople get upset.
Yes, phonics is king, butphonemic awareness is queen and
the king needs her queen.
So that's my feel.

Speaker 1 (56:16):
And yeah, I spent a lot of time trying to learn the
difference of the two.

Speaker 2 (56:20):
It still kind of mushes together in my head and
it even changed since I wentthrough teacher school and
that's been actually one of thefun things is that, you know, I
dip my toes back in thatresearch and I really read about
what they've discovered,because science of reading.
We talk about science ofreading and we think, oh, it's

(56:40):
the new thing.
No, no, science of reading is alive document, it's a living
thing, it's ongoing and it's,you know, something that has
been going on for 50 years.
So it's not anything.
It's just that we're learningnew things and as we learn to do
better, then we do better,right, but the pendulum is just

(57:01):
swinging and that's what I'mtrying.
My message to families is yes,phonics, but don't forget to do
the like.
You talked about the readingaspect, reading with kids.
You're teaching your childrenso much.
Maybe kids aren't going tolearn to read from that per se
not every child but they'relearning concepts about print.

(57:22):
They're learning having apositive dynamic with literature
.
You know there's so much therethat I fear we're missing right
now, because we're in a verytechnological age and parents,
in this literacy crisis, arebeing given a message, and what
I mean?
Yes, it's, it's.
It is unnerving as a parent tohear some of what's going on as

(57:45):
far as the outcomes.
But I'm finding that there's alot of taking advantage of that
panic on the part of parents.
You know, and for me mycommitment has always been to,
even if the message is notpopular, if it's what I know to
be true and it's what's in theresearch or it's what I, you

(58:08):
know, I'm going to stay true towhat's true.
I'm not going to just saywhat's popular and sometimes
that makes me not popular.

Speaker 1 (58:15):
Okay, Well, the truth hurts.
But yeah, I think definitely, ifwe spent more time just reading
to our kids in those earlyyears and not pressuring them to
, you know, be on par with theirpeers, they're going to get a
love for story, a love forlanguage.

(58:37):
It opens their mind up to beingcreative, like if you're reading
to them and they have toimagine that picture in their
head.
Even if the illustration'sthere, they're imagining it
moving and what could be on thenext page.
That's all developing this loveof reading, so that if they do
learn how to read at eight, nine, ten years old, they've already

(59:00):
developed the love of it andthe learning how to read is
gonna come easier.
So therefore, they're gonnajust want to be readers, whereas
if it's always book work, youknow, learn your A's, learn your
B's, a's then it's everythingis just rules, rules, rules.
Before you're cognitively readybecause you've been jolted
awake at 530, am thoseconnections.

(59:30):
Yet yeah, yeah, now you're justmemorizing because you're not
able to make sense of it.
You're just memorizing.
So I don't think that's it's abeautiful message to just go
ahead.
I don't think there's an agewhen that stops.

Speaker 3 (59:39):
I, you know, I taught middle school.
I was a language arts teacherfor 20 years.
I read aloud to my classes,absolutely, probably on a at
least three days a week.
Kids, I read aloud that andthey were in, you know, sixth,
seventh, eighth grade.
Kids love it.
I have a high schooler now andwe start our homeschool day
every day by me reading aloud tothem, and I have a six year old

(59:59):
all the way through a 15 yearold.
You know, read aloud and Idon't think I mean.
There's so much that kids canlearn from sitting on the lap of
a parent when they're little.
We're all homeschoolers.
If you send your kid to publicschool, you're a homeschooler
because you're your child'sfirst teacher, and if they don't
learn something from you, youcan't expect them to go to

(01:00:23):
school and learn from teachersthat are strangers.
So we're reading, but you knowstories, fiction stories.
We learn empathy, we learnsympathy, we learn how to handle
grief, how to celebrate.
You know we learn so much fromstories.
We can read nonfiction storiesand learn about, you know, the

(01:00:44):
lives of other people, theadventures of other people.
We can get information fromthat.
But it's about fluency too.
So even when they are oldenough to read on their own.
If you're reading aloud,they're learning vocabulary,
they're learning fluency.
I know many students I have hadwho've come to parent teacher
conferences and the parent willsay my child really struggles

(01:01:05):
with reading.
What can I do?
And I always say, hey, if youreally want to learn how to play
basketball, what do you do?
You get in the gym and youpractice.
Right, that's what you do.
You don't just sit around going.
I wonder what I can do to getbetter at basketball.
You go practice.
So if you want to get better atreading, read a book, pick up a
book.
I always told parents you reada page.
Let them read a page aloud tothem while they, while they look

(01:01:28):
at the words.
I've seen kids who havedeveloped so much better fluency
just because we read aloud tothem and they would be 12 or 13
years old.
So it doesn't stop just becausethey've outgrown.
You know that.
Oh, I'm learning phonics, stageum.

Speaker 1 (01:01:44):
That continues as they get older, absolutely I was
just talking to a homeschoolerand I cannot remember her handle
.
I want to give her credit forthis.
But she said that with her sonshe would have him hold her
thumb as he was reading a bookto her and when he got stuck on
a word he'd squeeze her thumband she'd just say the word, so

(01:02:06):
that they didn't have to take uh, uh, that whole time to say mom
, what's this word?
Or stumble on it.
And now you're losing the story.
And and she was like you know,if you can't, if you couldn't do
something as an adult, wewouldn't force you to do it.
You sound it out, you know, youwould just help the person,
just help them.

(01:02:27):
So she said she, he would justsqueeze her thumb and she'd say
the word he couldn't say, and onthey go with the story and next
time they read it you know,there were less words.
He had to squeeze her thumb forit.
I'm like, oh my god, that issuch an awesome, awesome way to.

Speaker 2 (01:02:42):
I love that you can't have that in the classroom
setting right, because it justdoesn't allow for that.
I mean, I was my, my wholething was differentiation in the
classroom, but could I do it tothe level that I did for myself
, partially because I wasn'teven allowed to right?
And 30 plus, yeah, yeah, even20, 20, it doesn't matter, it's,

(01:03:02):
you just can't do it, andthat's what another another
thing that's different in thedynamics is we had to take some
steps back and we had toscaffold and say, okay, you're
going to, we're going to startat his, his lowest level of
success rate and we're going tojust and you talked about that
too, you know, I mean, that'swhat you do.
You meet them where they're atand if they're making progress,

(01:03:25):
then you are being successfuland you're doing your role.
So you know, yeah, definitelyjust a different setting.

Speaker 1 (01:03:36):
So before we get kicked off here at the hour,
deanna, where can people findyour YouTube page if they want
to check it out to help theirkids learn how to read in a very
fun way?
I don't know how you put thesescripts all together and you're
touching the elbow and the noseand, oh my gosh, it's so fun.
That's how I taught.

Speaker 2 (01:03:57):
I was the singing kindergarten teacher and I kind
of love it.
I love it.
My colleagues made fun of meeven for that, but yeah, that's
okay, it's cool.
Um, so on YouTube, dr Deanna islearning for littles, and you
know I also have some episodesthat are just for parents to

(01:04:17):
give them information about thepedagogy and like just how to
teach or little simplestrategies.
I'm all about keeping it simple, that we don't have to buy all
the things that you canreplicate at home.
So yeah, dr Deanna's Learningfor Littles on YouTube.

Speaker 1 (01:04:34):
Awesome and I will save this live and we can put
that right in the comments sopeople can check it out.
And, leanne, where can peopleif you have any closing message
and where can people find yourbook and the title of it?
And we'll put that in thecomment.

Speaker 3 (01:04:49):
Yeah, my book is called making the switch.
You can find it at Barnes andNoble, you can online, you know.
Typically you can find it atBarnes and Noble, amazon, um,
and it's called making theswitch.
My name, lee, and Scott, um, asthe author.
So, um, and yeah, other thanthat, I'm just hanging out here
on Instagram sometimes, but whenI'm not, when I'm not
homeschooling, um, but yeah, andI would say um, yeah, as far as

(01:05:14):
like a transition, I, one of mythings for parents was I used
to say, oh, you have to know thelaws in your state and you have
to search and you have, but youdon't.
If you know what the laws inyour state are, um, then you can
pull your kids and you canstart homeschooling tomorrow and
, um, you know that, um, youdon't have to wait and you can
learn with them as you go.

(01:05:34):
And I can't remember I didn'tknow how to do any algebra one,
and now I'm a little better atit than I was.
I took it, I just didn'tremember it and I've learned
here that I had completelyforgotten Um, you know, I
learned with my kids when, whenI can't remember, we learned
together.
And so don't think that becauseyou don't have, um, you know, a

(01:05:56):
PhD or or even a bachelor'sdegree or maybe diploma.
Just you know if, if you wantto do it, if it's important to
you, you can do it.
Um, and you can learn with them, cause I learned.
I did not think that I would.
I had always taught middleschool students.
I always taught students whoknew how to read for the most
part, and they learned from whatthey could, what they, their

(01:06:17):
abilities.
I did not think I could teachkids how to read, but I taught
my son how to read and now I'mteaching my daughter how to read
.
I, you can do it, you can do itand you can learn with them.
If you don't know how to do it,you know.
And people say, well, I don'thave the money, well, go to the
library and get a library cardand that's free and you're good
to go.
So you can do it.

(01:06:39):
You just have to be resourced,you have to really want to do it
and love your children, andthat's all you need.

Speaker 1 (01:06:47):
Yeah, thank you so much for that, and I think the
de-schooling process is soimportant.
Don't replicate the school athome.
If you pull them tomorrow, donot think that you need a
curriculum or anything.
Take that time to learn how tobe a family together.
You can look up reading listsif you you know, but, like you
said, the library card and whatI do is I get books from a

(01:07:07):
reading list and I can orderthem from an app and they go
right to my library.
So I pick up 30 books at a timeand like we just have a couple
weeks of books now that we cango through a few times and you
know um it, and I think you knowjust going out in nature and
talking with your kids, seeingwhat sparks their interest and
maybe you can get a book on that, or go look at a youtube video

(01:07:29):
or a documentary about that um,the three things in your area,
like museums or nature centersand we have a bird sanctuary up
here state parks, national parks, like these are the things that
we should be going to first,versus curriculum, you know, and
just even just playing boardgames, just like find some games

(01:07:53):
that you guys enjoy togetherand have that quality time.
So that's what I would also, um,you know, say for that
de-schooling process, and then,if you continue with that, and
that's your whole homeschool forthe next 12 years beautiful.
And if you want to addcurriculum or an online school
or anything like all that, stuffis available too.
There's just so many options.

(01:08:14):
So, leanna, thank you so muchfor joining me.
Leanne, thank you for joiningme, thank you for your 20 years
in the school system and thenfor kind of shedding a light
onto hey, it can be different,it can be done differently,
absolutely.
Thank you, cheryl.

Speaker 3 (01:08:31):
Thank.