Ever wonder what happens in a healing session with horses?
Willex helped me complete my case studies. This is his story. It's the beginning of an incredable journey that Im hapy to have collaborated here. Willex himself is a healer with many teachings and a spirit that imbues others with reverence and curiosity.
Willex Emanuel has studied indigenous Wisdom systems for over 30 years. He is a Wisdom Goddess Priest, Ordained Shamanic Minister, Spiritual Empowerment Life Coach and Destiny Card Reader. He was initiated into the Ancient Egyptian Mysteries and draws knowledge and inspiration from the wisdom traditions of Cabala, Yoruba Religion, Buddhism, Native American Religions, Australian Aboriginal Lore, Gnostic Egyptian Wisdom, and The Order of the Magi. He is also avid Tree Hugger and Horse Whisperer! His mission is to assist you in achieving the desired outcomes you want for your personal Spiritual life and aid in the advancement and evolution of planetary consciousness.
https://lovewisdomandhealing.com/
He can be reached for Destiny readings at williex@lwhealing.com
For more stories about Pi the Appolusa, see episode in season one.
For more information on names or materials referenced, or to contact Ishe- please email. iabel.hhc@gmail.com
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:01):
This is the Horse HumanConnection.
A captivating podcast where weextend into the world of equine
assisted learning.
Horse Training.
and gentleness in working withthese magnificent creatures.
Captivating stories from theleading professionals and
ordinary people alike unravelnovel ideas in being with
(00:23):
horses.
The horse human connection is anidea, a place, and a voice.
The idea is to support the quietrevolution and recognize the
intelligence and true nature ofthe horse.
The place is a destination farmnear the Umpqua Forest and River
that slows down visitors andpatrons enough to experience the
(00:46):
shift.
The Voice is this podcast.
Welcome to today's episode.
Hi, I'm Ishi Abel with the HorseHuman Connection Matrix Podcast.
And today I have with meWillicks, who was instrumental
in helping me when I was doingmy first case studies after
(01:09):
returning from equinicityretreats, and learning about the
horses and healing.
And we thought we'd have aconversation tonight about all
of that and anything else.
So welcome, Willicks.
Well, thank you, and Iappreciate you taking the time
out for this podcast, thisinterview.
(01:32):
I've been looking forward todoing this and talking about my
experience with the horses andthe healing experience that I
had with them.
Yeah, I'm so glad we could, wecould do this.
We've been trying to schedulefor a while.
So Yeah, here we go.
So what do you remember?
What stands out in your mindabout the whole thing when we
first started talking about it,when you, when you came and met
(01:54):
the horses?
Well, for me at the beginning, Iwas just kind of like, not
necessarily skeptical, but I wasjust like, well let me just try
it and see what happens.
You know, I had never had anexperience with working with
horses in that capacity, youknow, for them to do some
healing work on me.
And I was very curious about theexperience and I wanted to see
(02:16):
what was going to happen.
And so I just followed yourinstructions and had a very
profound experience on so manylevels.
Can you describe what happened?
I would just like to hear you rereplay the memory for me.
Well, I, when I first got outthere, I saw the horses and.
(02:38):
You told me I was gonna go siton the chair in the middle of
the field, and at first I waslike, sit in the chair in the
middle of the field of thehorses.
That didn't seem kind of like,okay, well I've, I've been in,
in the room with horses in, inthe rings with horses and stuff,
but I never sat in the middle ofa chair.
And so that was my firstimpression was like, okay,
that's, this is going to beinteresting.
(02:59):
But when I sat down in, in thechair and I was just waiting for
the horses to do whateverthey're going to do, and I was
looking around and I just kindof settled into.
The experience I kept lookingover at you to see what you were
doing and, and you were, hadyour little notepad in hand and
I was just waiting for somethingto happen.
(03:20):
And the horses have their ownway of doing things.
And so I didn't know what toexpect.
So I just sat there and thenslowly the horses start moving
around and started movingtowards me.
And there was, what were thenames of the horses that were
there?
It was Sipsi, Firefly, andHulapai, or Pi.
(03:40):
Pi.
And maybe Maddy, maybe Maddy wasthere back then.
No, there was three.
There was three that were inthere with me.
And I remember the horses comingover, you know, like one of it
at a time to just kind of likegreet me or to check me out.
And so I was just sitting thereallowing them to come up to me.
(04:01):
And it wasn't a position that Iwas comfortable in.
Just sitting there and havingthe big horse walk by me and
seeing its big body in my faceand not being able to like,
really like move away from thehorse.
So I thought it was getting tooclose.
Like when you're standing withhorses and stuff like that, and
it, you can move away and stufflike that.
(04:22):
Here.
I was just sitting there and thehorse just had its own
jurisdiction to just move how hewanted to, however close to me
he wanted to get.
And so that was kind of, atfirst it started, you It was a
little unnerving to not be ableto like, quote unquote, protect
myself by moving away.
Very vulnerable.
Yes.
I felt very vulnerable.
And I think maybe it was part ofthat vulnerability that allowed
(04:45):
me to just kind of relax intothe experience because I didn't
really have a choice.
I kept looking at you for sometype of reassurance to feel that
I was, it was safe for me to bethere when this horse was still
alive.
That close to me and doingwhatever it was going to do.
So after they walked around mefor a few moments, they were
both checking me out.
(05:06):
And then a couple of the horseswalked away and started eating
grass.
And I think it was hula pie thatcame up to me and started
sniffing like my head.
And that day I remember it waskind of cool outside and I had a
little skull cap on.
Yeah.
And so I was just sitting thereand it was.
(05:27):
It was kind of nipping at myhead and I got this real deep
impression that the horse wantedme to take my hat off and I did
really didn't want to take myhat off, but I, I don't know if
it was like a communication thatI picked up from the horse, but
(05:47):
the sense was that it wanted meto take my hat off.
So I just thought to myself, I'mnot taking my hat off.
And as soon as I thought thatthought, Hulapai walked away
from me.
He, he gave me a look like,okay, if you want to be like
that, then be like that.
And it walked away from me andstarted eating grass and I
(06:08):
thought, Oh no, what happenedhere?
It's just like the wholedynamic.
I felt the energy shift from,from the, I guess the healing
modality to like, well, I'lljust go back and do my horse
thing.
And so I just took the hat offmy, my head.
And then he looked over and hesaw that my hat was off and he
(06:28):
came back over to me and hewalked over to me and I think he
started kind of like sniffingaround my head.
And that was kind ofuncomfortable because my normal
reflex would be to move away.
And I remember looking over atyou and you're saying just
trust, just trust.
And he was, he was sniffing atmy head and then kind of like,
(06:51):
like nipping at it, not reallylike biting it, but just kind of
putting his lips on it.
I had, and that felt kind ofstrange and I was like wondering
like, okay, what's going tohappen next because horses have
big teeth, they do.
And I, you know, and I had neverhad a horse's big teeth that
close to my skull before.
(07:12):
And so, you know, so I'm, I'mgoing through like a lot of.
emotional things just out ofanxiety and fear that, you know,
this is very, very intimateexperience with the horse and
I'm, I don't feel safe, but thehorse kept doing this thing.
And then it let's see here.
It walked around in front of meand it was facing me like head
(07:33):
on.
And it started to like move itshead up and down my chest.
And I looked over to you and Ithink you said something about
chakras or you know, it wasclearing my chakras.
So I felt, okay, well, she knowswhat the horse is doing, so it's
okay.
It's safe.
And so it, it, it did that.
(07:55):
It went up and down my chest andthen it walked away from me.
And If I remember correctly, itstood in front of me, you know,
sideways so I could see the sideof his body and it opened its
mouth and it just started likeblowing air out of its mouth.
It just stood there blowing airout of his mouth.
(08:15):
And I remember you sayingsomething like, you know, it's,
it's, it's.
Exhausting the, the energy,releasing, releasing the energy
and I'm like, okay, okay, that'scool.
So it, it clears some energy.
I didn't really feel any,anything going on inside of me
at that moment in time, but theysaid, okay, it's releasing
(08:35):
energy.
That's good.
So, and then after it did that,it, it walked around, I think it
walked around me and it cameback to the front of me again.
And this time, you know, it wasdoing the same thing.
And so I, I felt a little morecomfortable knowing, okay, what
it had done the first time andwhat it was doing this time.
But this time it went, you know,he, he, he stuck his head all
(08:58):
the way down between my legs.
He was like in my crotch and hejust stopped there.
He stopped right there.
And I was, I looked over at youand you were like, Just trust.
I couldn't think about trustingbecause I could think all I
could think about is like horseshave big teeth.
Right.
And this is like the familyjewels and he's got his big head
(09:20):
between my legs and I'm kind of,you know, I'm struggling with
not panicking.
And you looked like you werecompletely calm and cool.
I did not know that it was anodd situation.
Oh, having a horse horses headbetween my legs was an odd
situation.
And they kept telling us to dothe case studies.
(09:43):
To just trust and allow thatthat's the mantra.
And that's what we did when wewere up at these at this
retreat.
And so coming home to do thesecase studies, I'm like, okay, I
have to learn how to trust myherd and completely allow
whatever they want to do.
And that's why I had the pad isbecause if I'm writing stuff
down, then my job was not tointerfere.
(10:04):
That's what the case studieswere for.
You do 20 case studies and youdon't interfere.
And trust and allow and it tooka lot of faith for both of us.
So when you were telling metrust and allow You weren't
weren't just comforting me.
You were comforting yourself.
Absolutely Okay, well if I hadknown that It'd have been a
(10:24):
different different thing.
I thought you had it undercontrol I thought I thought you
had it under control too.
I didn't know you were you werepanicking because you look so
Yeah, well maybe it's becauseyou were so calm Okay, she's
she's got this And I'm justgoing to trust her and so the
horse was down there for like itseemed like I don't know like
(10:44):
ages, you know, because I'm, youknow, I'm trying to like breathe
through this and not go intopanic mode because I, I could
sense at that point that thehorse could read my thoughts, so
to speak.
Yeah, it could, it could figureout what I was thinking.
And so I didn't want to have avision of it, like, you know,
having you know, some nut crunchat that moment, you know, you
(11:08):
want to keep everythingpositive, right.
I just keep it neutral.
And so after a while it stopped,I don't know how long it was.
Maybe it could have been like aminute or maybe two minutes or
three.
It just seemed like forever.
Yeah.
It got up, you know, walked awayand it stood in front of me
(11:28):
again.
And then it started to urinateand I'm like, okay, and, and I
think you said, no, he isreleasing energy.
Yeah.
And so letting go.
He's letting go.
Yeah.
And I was trying to figure out,okay, well, what did, what type
of energy did he extract from meat that point in time?
But I didn't really dwell onthat too much because I was just
(11:50):
happy not having that horse headbetween my legs.
Right.
Right.
So it did that, it urinated, andthen it kind of walked away and
then Sipsy came up to me.
And at that point, I had kind ofrelaxed into feeling what the
(12:11):
horses were thinking and kind ofcommunicating on that level.
And so she was a little hesitantat first.
To approach me and I remembersaying to her, like, come on,
you can do this, you know, thisis, this is easy.
You're a great healer.
I was thinking that, yeah, I wasthinking that in my mind and
she, she came a little bitcloser, took a few more steps
(12:34):
and kind of looked around andthen she came a little bit
closer.
And and then she walked behindme.
I remember she walking behind meand and she, I think she walked
behind me and stopped.
And I looked over at you and youwere like, you know, again,
trust.
And she, she did like a completecircle around and she backed,
(12:56):
she backed off, she came backtowards me and then she lifted
up her, her hoof and put itright on my left side.
And I looked at you again, causethat was another panic moment
and I was panicking inside, butyou know, I was looking at you,
the cool, calm face of, ofCourage and I, I didn't know
(13:18):
because I'm thinking like, ifthis horse puts any pressure on
my leg, it'll just snap it intwo.
I mean, it's a 2, 000 poundanimal and it was just resting
this hoof right on my leg.
And, and then it started to petmy, my thigh.
To tap with it.
Yeah, it was tapping it.
You know, it was just tapping itwith his hoof.
(13:39):
And even, even it was very lighttapping, but I was still
thinking like, if it's just ahard tap, I'm going to be
walking out of here in crutches.
Right.
You know, because, you know,horses are very powerful
animals.
And it did that tapping for Youknow, my, my experience of time
(13:59):
was like kind of warped becauseonce you get in there and you
start working with the horses,you don't have like a you know,
the experience of, of, ofliteral time, our linear time
falls away when we slow down andwe enter their world.
Right.
Yeah.
That's what the experience was.
I had entered into their world,their world of time, and it was
(14:20):
a different experience of timein itself.
Because everything just seemedmore ethereal in that space.
You know, it was just, I hadstepped into their world, like
you said.
And so it did that and it walkedaway and then it came behind me
and I started nipping at the, mylower back and I could feel it
(14:44):
like, it's kind of like biting,not biting, but massaging with
their lips and kind of like,yeah.
And their teeth kind of nippingat my belt.
I felt a few little tugs on mybelt.
And it did that for you know, afew minutes, but like you said,
I don't know how long it couldhave been like five seconds, but
it just felt like a long enoughtime for it to do what it's
(15:08):
going to do.
And it, it, I think it did acircle around me again.
And once it got behind me, itwrapped itself around me.
I remember the horses behind Hisrear end was on the left side of
me and his head was on the rightside of me and it had completely
(15:29):
encircled me.
And I don't think I could seeyou at that point in time, but I
remember you saying, Oh, she'sgiving you a hug.
And at that moment I felt, Oh,okay, that's, that's nice.
It's comfortable.
I felt comfortable with it.
But just being totally enclosedby the horse's body.
She made like a crescent aroundyou.
(15:50):
Yes, exactly.
She made a crescent around meand do you remember during these
times anything that was going oninside you?
Like, do you remember feelingany particular way?
Well, as it progressed into thehealing process, I felt myself
like moving into their, theirexperience of time and moving
(16:14):
out of my experience of time.
And so I wasn't really.
What I noticed was like, youknow, my consciousness was
shifting and it was shiftingmore out of like a state of fear
and into more of a state ofacceptance because I was
(16:36):
starting to feel comfortablewith whatever the horses were
doing.
I didn't feel as if, you know,at like the first time when,
when he first approached me andput his head between my legs, I
didn't feel like that type ofanxiety that felt like I could
trust the horse, they knew whatthey were doing, especially
after.
You know, sipsy was patting onmy leg.
(16:57):
At that point, that was, thatwas like a realization for me,
like the horse is actually doingsome work and it knows what it's
doing and it's really doing sometherapy on me.
You know, that was a moment thatwhen I had a an experience of
just like, okay, let me justrelax into it.
(17:18):
And it seemed like when I didrelax into it, the horses were
able to to do work on a, on itsown level.
And I remember, I think it wasSy, she walked around in front
of me and she did a release too.
But she just, oh, you know, shejust stood there and she was
just like, you.
She, she closed her eyes.
and just stood there and as ifshe was meditating.
(17:41):
And you, you, you said somethingto me to the effect that, okay,
she's just doing the same thingfly was doing.
It's just releasing energy, butshe was doing it in her own way.
So I just sat there watching hermeditate for whatever length of
time it was.
And And then when she finished,you know, she walked away and
(18:05):
who was the other horse, thethird horse that was there?
Firefly.
Firefly.
Was that the?
The old, the old one.
The old one.
Yeah.
Okay.
With a blonde mane.
Right.
Firefly didn't come over.
The third horse didn't come overto me.
I get the names confused andeverything.
It didn't come over.
(18:25):
It came up and it looked at me,and I was looking at it, and, It
was as if I was tipsy I was Iwas told I was encouraging to
come on, you know, come in anddo what you're going to do.
And, but with the third horse isit like firefly firefly.
I just kind of looked at it andit looked at me and.
(18:48):
I don't know if we, we didn'tconnect or if we were just like
looking at each other and, andit was analyzing me and saying,
well, you look like you're done.
You don't need any more orwhatever, but it didn't come
over and do any direct work onme like the other horses did.
(19:10):
And so it did walk around me andwhen it started walking around
me, the other horses started.
walking around me.
So they had like a littlecircle.
They had circled the horsesaround me and then they walked
behind me and they formed atriangle.
You remember that?
The sacred geometry that theydo.
The sacred geometry.
Okay.
(19:30):
And I had my back to them and Ididn't really want to like You
know, turn around and stare atthem to see what they were doing
because I knew that theypositioned themselves behind me
for a reason and I was just tolike, look forward and they were
going to do, they were doingwhatever they were doing.
And so I looked and I saw themstanding there and they were all
(19:51):
like, they all have their heads,like in the same position, the
same height from the ground, youknow, just kind of like a, like,
like a military position thatthey were in just frozen in that
state.
And we were there for, I don'tknow, another period of time.
It could have been five minutesor could have been two minutes,
(20:14):
but I was in horse time at thatmoment.
And, you know, I looked at youand I think you said, you know,
the sacred geometry.
And so, So at that point, I juststarted trying to feel into what
was going on there and what, youknow, what type of energies I
was getting from the horses.
And I don't know if at thatmoment I started to feel like,
(20:36):
you know, a lot of emotionalenergy welling up within me as
they were just, you know, beinglike these silent sentinels
standing behind me, you know,guarding my back.
I was trying to go through a lotof rationalizations as to what
they could be thinking, whatthey could be doing.
But something said, just let goof all that mental turmoil that
(21:00):
you're putting yourself throughand just relax into, you know,
the sacred geometry of it.
So that's what I did.
And I think once they finishedwith that, I think that was kind
of like the end of theexperience.
And then they kind of went backto doing what horses do is eat
(21:22):
grass and whatnot.
And I was just sitting there andyou asked me a few questions,
how I was feeling, but at thattime I really couldn't.
articulate anything because Iwas really spaced out.
You know, I, at that moment, Irealized I'm, I'm in an altered
state of consciousness.
And you know, I just wanted tokind of stay in that state.
(21:45):
I felt like there was somehealing going on.
And, but I couldn't really putmy finger on it.
And we were having a littledialogue at that point in time.
And I remember getting up fromthe chair that I was in and
starting to walk away.
Everything kind of seemed inslow motion, but what I noticed
(22:05):
is that the pain, I had like apain in my back, lower back
where I had.
injured my spine L4, L5, I hadlike some herniated disc and,
you know, that would happen along time ago, but sometimes
because I sat in a chair at workall the time, you know, that
would, you know, I could feellike it getting sore or stuff
(22:25):
like that.
And so I had that pain when Iwalked into the arena with the
horses, I wasn't thinking aboutit because, you know, you get
used to a pain.
You try not to think about it.
Right.
Yeah.
But when I got up, you know, myexpectation was like, okay, here
comes that pain again.
Cause it was always kind oflike, I got up, but I didn't
feel any pain at all.
And I moved my body.
(22:46):
I started moving my body arounda little bit.
And I was like, my, my pain inthe back is gone.
And then I realized, Oh yeah,the horse was working on the
left side of my body, you know,with the tapping and was also
like nipping at the back of my.
My back on that side of my bodyand they knew exactly where to
go.
I mean, they just, okay, he'sgot some pain over here and
(23:07):
we'll work on that.
And they took away the pain andI got up and, you know, I walked
over to you and you had yournotes and we chatted a little
bit and then we went down.
I think down towards the houseand sat, sat in the shade and,
and did a little debrief, moreof a debrief.
But I was still like in analtered state of consciousness.
And so our conversation waslike, in my, my awareness was
(23:30):
kind of, you know, really slow.
We're just talking, right?
And the sun was beaming, the daywas warm and the horses were
grazing.
And it was just one of thosetype of like, surreal type of
experiences.
Yes, yes.
Yes.
Yeah, well, those that thank youfor recounting the whole thing.
(23:50):
Yeah.
From my perspective.
I had no idea that you werehaving any trouble trusting the
horses.
I thought you quite brave andand calm and confident looking
and I do remember I used to dothe intakes.
You know, like, do you have anypain or tightness in your body,
one to ten?
Do you have, you know, like,there were these questions I
(24:11):
would ask going in and then asthe exit also after the session.
And so there were those.
And then you kept bringing mepeople.
Like, you were so great abouttalking about the experience
and, and bringing people.
I remember there was that onewoman Who is visiting you from
another state.
And I don't remember her name.
(24:31):
We never really talked.
I didn't get to know her, butshe sat in a chair in a metal
folding chair in the middle ofthe field.
And Pi came over and bit thethird finger pinched with his
teeth, the third finger on eachof her hands.
And she sat in that chair andcried for 20 minutes, never said
a thing.
Got up and said, thank you.
That was just the most profoundexperience.
Never heard what it was about.
(24:53):
Right, right, right.
Yeah.
I remember watching that myself.
I was just curious to see whatthe horses were going to do with
her.
But their treatment was totallydifferent than what I
experienced.
Like I said, you know, at firstit looked like, you know, when
they were doing the biting, itwas just like, Oh, that, that
doesn't, you know, I'm, I'mthinking like, well, that
(25:15):
doesn't look right.
You know, they didn't bite melike that, but that wasn't what
I needed.
You know, they did what they,they had to do for me.
And I remember her crying and I,I didn't know if they had, at
first I thought, well, did theyhurt her?
But I figured, well, if they hadheard it, then she would have
made some type of move to escapefrom the experience, but she
(25:35):
just sat there.
in that, that, that grief, ormaybe it wasn't even grief.
Whatever it was, it wascathartic.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And it was just, so I just satthere and just held, holding
space on the sideline on theoutside of the the arena until
she finished.
And like you said, she, when shefinished and she was done, she
got up and came out of thearena.
(25:56):
And I could tell she was like inanother state of consciousness
as well, but whatever the horseshad had analyzed.
Was needed.
I don't think they analyzethings.
They just into it or whatever.
Yeah, whatever they did theyjust did the right thing the
right medicine for her and Shegot a benefit from it and then I
(26:21):
brought another friend Downthere to have the experience as
well.
And I remember her she wasrecounting where the horse was
She had on a vest and the horsegrabbed the the little zipper
and was trying to pull it down.
He, he unzipped her.
Yeah.
He unzipped her and, and thenstarted working on her.
(26:44):
And that was a totally differentexperience than, than the other,
my experience and my otherfriends experience.
And so, yeah, that was you know,because I was curious at that
point to see how this washappening.
Yeah.
And how did, and thinking abouthow do they know what to do?
And that was a, an experience ofme, you know, firstly,
(27:07):
understanding the, the nature ofthe, the horses and how broad
and expansive.
their consciousness is right,being able to take in what's
going on in our consciousness tohowever they're doing that,
whether they're reading ourenergy and our bodies, where our
(27:29):
bodies hurt, right?
Yeah.
And being able to take thatenergy.
and then discharge it, which wasa good thing.
I wouldn't want the force takingthe energy in for me and holding
it in its own body.
But and so I was, I was quiteamazed at the, the entire
experience.
So yeah, I was like, man, yougot to come and check this out.
(27:51):
Let these forces work on you.
And I told them about myexperience and they were like,
wow.
That sounds interesting.
Let me, I want to check it out.
So that's why I was bringingmore people to you.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Those were good times.
I was so appreciative of thatand all the learning that I did
of trusting them and staying outof the way.
And it's constant.
It's not like I learned it.
(28:11):
And I have it every time I'mwith the horses and people, I
don't know what's going tohappen next.
And it takes, it takes faith andtrust all the time.
And, and there's a line of like,you know, should I, should I let
the horses bite people?
I mean, it's usually just thegildings.
The girls don't do that, but Ihave a different horse other
(28:35):
than pie pie passed away, I haveCharlie and gildings are more
mouthy than mares.
And there've been lines whereI'm like, no, just use your
lips, just your lips.
And he still likes to use histeeth sometimes.
And I'm always back and forth onthis fence of, you know, should
I make sure he doesn't do that?
(28:55):
Can I even make sure he doesn'tdo that?
Or can I completely trust andallow, you know, the horses to
do their healing work and it,and they, it's different every
time it's always different.
Right.
One experience that I recall nowis that the first horse, Pi, Pi,
(29:19):
it circled around, after it doneall the releasing of the energy,
it did a circle around me, andthen it came back and it stuck
his head down between my legsagain a second time.
And at that point, I wasn't asanxietal about the whole
experience.
And it was just down there and Icould feel it's, it's hot breath
(29:39):
from its nostrils, you know, youknow, between my legs.
And, you know, it got up and itjust walked away and did
whatever it was going to do atthat point.
But I do remember the secondtime, but the second time it
wasn't as, as scared orfrightened about the experience.
Of just having a big horse'shead like down there.
(30:00):
Did you ever make any sense ofthat?
Did it ever, like, have anymeaning for you?
Well, I think that, you know, itwas, perhaps it was just
clearing some toxic masculinityor energy of that sort.
I couldn't, that was the onlything that really registered
with me.
(30:21):
I didn't think of anything elsethat it could have been doing.
So, you know, it was doing somehealing work.
Of course it had to do withsome, with masculinity.
That's that's the sense that Igot as well, but we never had
that conversation really about,about it.
So maybe it was the energy ofmasculinity that, that we refer
(30:45):
to as toxic, but also at thesame time, it's, it was like a
undeveloped wounded.
Energy that needed to be healedas well.
The wounded part of it was, youknow, I can relate to that from
my experience with my father.
And the wounded masculinity thatI saw in him.
(31:07):
And perhaps that was, you know,the thrust of it.
Maybe it was more of thewounded.
Masculine as opposed to thetoxic masculine, but it probably
was a little bit both becauseyou know, I had my my days of
toxic masculinity in my Teenageearly days, you know, my wild
buck days and and that, thatdefinitely needed to be cleared.
(31:30):
And so that was probably part ofthe whole process.
I always felt like Pi reallyunderstood that because when we
got him, he had, he was a BLMMustang and he was also a
foundation Appaloosa and webought him from some people and
they'd had him about a year andhe had been gelded.
(31:52):
at a later age, been caught andgelded at a later age at like
six.
So he was, when we first gothim, stallions have different,
like their muscles are much moredeveloped than geldings.
And so he had like, you know,muscles on his head and his neck
was really big.
And, you know, he was a, a muchbigger horse.
And when I think about, youknow, gelding a horse later I
(32:14):
mean, that's almost thedefinition of wounded.
Masculinity in a very physicalway.
And so that was the sense thatI, I made out of what, what was
going on.
Although I never, you know, younever know for sure.
Well, do you think that, youknow, with him having
experienced that gelding andunderstanding how he went from
(32:36):
like big module or to more mildmannered horse he could have
since that in my own person youknow, because I was never like,
you know, like you know, likethat alpha type of personality,
you know, but I still presentedmyself as such.
And so it could have been like,okay, well, here's some more
(32:57):
alpha energy that you might needto move forward in life as well.
I hadn't thought about it inthat sense, but.
in retrospect and looking backat the things that I needed in
order to to, to go out into lifeand to do the things that I
needed to do.
You know, there is like thatalpha element to that and to go
(33:19):
out and create your reality,create your world takes a lot of
that, that yang energy that youknow, on the masculine side.
And so that wasn't a, a traitthat I was, had carried.
In particular because I wasjust, you know, going along with
the, the status quo of, youknow, you go to school, you get
(33:41):
your college education and yougo out there and you get a job,
you know, as opposed to, like,going out there and building a
business or something like that.
You know, there's a differencebetween.
Getting a job and building abusiness.
There is a difference.
Right.
And there's a little bit morealpha.
And when you go out there andsay, I'm going to build my
business and make somethinghappen.
And I think that that wassomething that was lacking in my
(34:02):
life at that time to go outthere and to make, make my life
happen as opposed to acceptingwhat was given to me, and
perhaps it was.
Helping to instill some of thatenergy in me.
Do you feel like there was ashift after your time working
with the horses and bringingpeople?
Well, I, in terms of just theshift in the energy that you're
(34:26):
saying, let you, that you neededat that time.
Well, let me think.
I think there was a there was ashift in energy in that I became
more proactive in wanting to domy own thing.
And, and to focus on the thingsthat I had been putting off like
(34:46):
writing the things that, youknow, the book that I was going
to write, I said, okay, let mestart writing this.
Let me start putting thistogether.
Let me collate my data, startgathering my information.
So, so yes, I think that it didhelp give me a little more
impetus to, to go out and startmaking things happen for me as
opposed to waiting for a raiseor a promotion or something like
(35:10):
that.
Yeah.
And I do remember likeafterwards, you know, I've had a
greater interest in learningmore about You know equine
therapy And i've read, you knowstarted reading materials and
looking at you know videos Ononline about how horses work
(35:30):
with people And I saw this onevideo where this person was
actually laying on a massagetable And the horse was going
back and forth on top of theperson's body, you know with his
long nose and everything And Iwas like, wow, you know, I I
didn't know that it was You Asextensive as that is having
someone on a massage tablebecause in my experience was
(35:51):
just sitting in the chair andhaving them work on me in the
field, but this is like in amassage room.
Well, maybe a stall or whatever.
And the person was laying on usthat this is this is really
amazing.
Yeah.
And so I would imagine thatthere's probably other
processes.
Besides that, now I've, I'velooked at into like the, you
know, working with the horses,working with children, like
(36:12):
autistic children, I've watcheda lot of videos on that and how
the horses interact with thechildren, how they are able to
discern exactly as in my case,exactly what it is that that
particular child needs and howto work with that child's energy
to bring about a positive andbeneficial change.
(36:33):
and adaptation in that child.
And, and so I, I reallydeveloped like an interest in,
in wanting to be more involvedin the equine therapy after
watching that in my ownexperience, because I was still
buzzing from that experience fora few days afterwards.
Yeah, it was very profound.
(36:54):
How was it today?
We spent a little bit of timewith the horses.
It was maybe, maybe less formal.
Yeah, it was enough, less formalexperience for myself.
I was just looking at it fromthe perspective of other client
that you had there getting theexperience for herself and not
so much for myself.
(37:15):
I was just wanted to be likepart of the herd at that moment
and just hold space along withthe horses, you know, for her
because they started working onher and they didn't really seem
to be paying a whole lot ofattention to me.
So I just said, okay, well, it'snot my, it's not my party and
just let her have all theattention.
(37:36):
But it was interesting watchingthem.
Yeah.
And then after she left, you hada little, there was you and I
were in the ring together andthen they paid more attention to
you.
Right?
Yeah, they were.
Yeah, they were just kind oflike doing their, their, their
Sentinel type of just standingthere, right next to you, right
next to us.
(37:57):
And whatever energy work theywere doing, they were, they were
doing it.
And so I just closed my eyes,because that's what I felt like
was needed when they're thereand you're in their space.
You may feel that that way youmay feel like you just want to
close your eyes and justSurrender to whatever it was
that they were doing and sothat's what I did Until it was
(38:21):
time to to go on to the nextthing.
It's interesting to me the wayyou began to describe about Pi
and your hat.
Like that you just had thissense that you wanted, he wanted
you to take the hat off.
And it's not like a voice, it'snot like a picture, it's not
even like the feeling of yourhat coming off.
(38:41):
It's just this idea that seemslike, It could have been your
own, but it probably isn'tright.
It was a knowing, a knowing.
Okay.
Because I've had, I had the samething not too long ago, this
last summer where I'm sure Sipsywanted me to lay down and it
kept coming to me like that.
Like, you want me to just laydown, just lay down and, and I
(39:05):
finally did.
And she went and she put herhoof on my chest and I was
feeling very, very vulnerable.
And, but I'd had this, like thisproblem in my back that had not
healed.
It was like six months.
And I think it was a type ofadhesion, you know, from your
fascia.
And I'd been to massagetherapists and all kinds of
(39:27):
things, trying to get this thingfixed or, or just resting it and
trying to get it to heal and putcreams on it and, you know, And
she put her hoof on my chest andI immediately wanted to put my
hands under her hoof and likepush her hoof away.
Right.
But before I did that, she kindof slid her hoof off the side of
my ribs, not terribly hard, andmy back was fine.
(39:49):
She fixed my back.
Right.
Yeah, right.
That must have been prettyintimidating though.
I mean, she's my horse and thefollowing week I've been saying,
Oh, I completely trust thishorse.
And then when I'm underneath herthinking she's going to step on
me, I really got to put, youknow, put my body where my mouth
is.
Right.
Right.
Right.
It's, it's not always easy, butit's never been a mistake.
(40:13):
Trusting the horses has neverbeen a mistake.
Yeah, I hear you.
I hear you.
I mean, you're looking at a 1500pound.
But it was like gentle.
It was a gentle.
They just had like the rightamount of pressure.
Like on your chest.
Like on my, on my leg.
To not injure us, but to do the,you know, to, to affect the
(40:37):
healing.
Right.
And Sipsi has gotten really goodat being so careful and
deliberate in her movements.
You know, which I think helpspeople trust her.
You know, like it's not anaccident.
She's not rushing anything.
She's, she's moving reallyslowly and really deliberately
and asking for trust.
(40:57):
Right.
Yeah, she, I think sheunderstands, you know, people
from a more sensitive.
Feminine way if you want to saythat because like you said the
gelding's they're just likeaggressive They just go for it
and hey, I don't care whatyou're gonna think.
It's like whatever It's likehey, this is what I need to do
and you either go along with itor else, right?
(41:18):
But The the horses relate to youI guess from what they
experience is From their ownpersonalities as well because
all the horses have their ownpersonality Their own healing
capacity, their own healingskills, their own healing
knowledge, even though they're,they're healing you from the
perspective of the horse, theyeach have very unique
(41:41):
techniques.
And they work together sometimesand they work separately and
they take turns and they backeach other up.
It's it's really interesting.
I'd, I'd like to do more, youknow, I've taken some time off.
I've experimented with somedifferent things and it's good
to arrive back here.
It's good to remember with youthose, those first case studies
(42:03):
and discovering all of that and,and the work they did, it was
phenomenal.
Yes, indeed.
It was.
And.
You know, and that's, like Isaid, it spiked my interest in
learning more and, and togetting wanting to get involved
in the equine therapy because Isaw the benefits of it for
myself.
(42:24):
And it also helps to bring backthat, that.
human connection to the earth,the earth connection to the
horses, you know, that cycle oflife where we're all here to,
to, to, to assist and celebrateeach other.
And because we work on thehorses, you know, we take care
(42:44):
of them.
And, and this was an opportunityfor them to take care of us, to
return that in, in, in the waythat they know how to.
Yeah.
And you know, and I can see howpeople can develop these, these
really intimate relationshipswith the horses when they have
that, that, when they know thatthe horse understands them, the
(43:04):
horse sees them right.
And in a, in a, in a completelynonjudgmental way.
You know, you don't get any typeof flack from the horses about,
you know, anything about who youwere or what you did or how you
got to this place.
They're so forgiving.
Right.
They're so forgiving and it'stotally, yeah, totally
(43:27):
unconditional love, if you wantto call it that.
Yeah.
And you feel that, and maybethat's part of the The, the, the
consciousness shift that occursbecause we shift into like
their, their world, theirreality and what it's like to be
in a place of 24 sevenunconditional love and belonging
(43:50):
and belonging as, as one'snatural state, as opposed to
it's like some desired statethat we are, you know, we're
chasing, I feel like they reallyare trying to teach humans that.
There's another way to live.
Absolutely.
Our culture doesn't embracethat.
Right.
(44:10):
And the things that I've readabout people that have been
around horses, you know, therelationships that they, the
bonds that they create, youknow, is an attestment to that.
There is another way that we canlive.
Not just with the animal world,but with ourselves, with each
other, with other humans.
And, you know, when I askedRupert Isaacson, who does the
(44:34):
work with autistic children andthe horse boy method and wrote
the book horse boy and the moviewhen I asked him if he was part
of the quiet revolution, hezoomed out.
And talked about what you'resaying, the, the revolution of,
yeah, there's another way forhumans to be with humans, not
just with horses.
Right.
(44:55):
And I think that's, that's wherehumanity has to go in order to
return to our humanity.
Because things right now, whenyou look around, it's just
crazy.
War is fighting, violence,everything on television is
violence, violence, violence.
And I experienced in that circlewith the horses.
(45:16):
You know, a world where therewas no sense of violence.
Like that there was just it wasa very tranquil environment a
very tranquil space and you youfelt held by the the energy of
the space itself.
You know what I'm saying?
Right.
(45:37):
And they, they do they cometogether and they form that and
even like when you would noticethat Firefly wasn't directly
participating.
She's always there holding thespace.
Mm hmm.
You know, that's.
That's what they do.
And, you know, maybe that's justa little thing that we can do
for each other, too, is with theintention of holding space for
(46:00):
when other humans are goingthrough things.
It doesn't really require much,but the intention of it is.
And being quiet, right?
I know Myself when I firststarted doing my my healing
work, you know, I was it wasDifficult for me to just hold
space without trying to be, youknow, the savior, you know
(46:23):
helping them and learning fromthe horses What holding space
was like enabled me to just bequiet and listen?
and if and if that was all thatwas needed was just listening
without trying to You Reach outand do anything, you know,
sometimes it's just necessary tojust be there and hold that
space And the feel held in thespace by, you know, by the
(46:47):
horses was a learning experiencebecause I hadn't experienced it
to that degree of intensity.
Because when they ground, theyare so grounded.
Right.
That it spreads.
And, you know, Firefly has shownme that lots of times that when
things are chaotic, the bestthing to do is just to ground
yourself and hold your space andmake that intention and wait.
(47:09):
Right.
I've watched her do it.
She's demonstrated it for me.
And then I've gone into hecticsituations right afterwards and
applied what she taught me.
And it's only a matter of maybe10 minutes before the chaos
stops, everybody gets quiet andthey start asking questions.
Right, right, right.
You know, exactly.
This has been a really greattalk, Willis.
(47:31):
I'm so glad we finally could gettogether and recount the
memories from the early workwith the horses and I always
enjoy it when you come visit.
Yes, this it was good.
It was good to be out with thehorses again and to see them do
their thing and just to be inthat space in that arena and not
(47:52):
like learning how to train thehorses, but allowing the horses
to train me and in, in theirworld and their way of being.
Good stuff.
This is the Horse HumanConnection.
A captivating podcast where weextend into the world of equine
assisted learning.
Horse Training.
and gentleness in working withthese magnificent creatures.
Captivating stories from theleading professionals and
ordinary people alike unravelnovel ideas in being with
(00:23):
horses.
The horse human connection is anidea, a place, and a voice.
The idea is to support the quietrevolution and recognize the
intelligence and true nature ofthe horse.
The place is a destination farmnear the Umpqua Forest and River
that slows down visitors andpatrons enough to experience the
(00:46):
shift.
The Voice is this podcast.
Welcome to today's episode.
Hi, I'm Ishi Abel with the HorseHuman Connection Matrix Podcast.
And today I have with meWillicks, who was instrumental
in helping me when I was doingmy first case studies after
(01:09):
returning from equinicityretreats, and learning about the
horses and healing.
And we thought we'd have aconversation tonight about all
of that and anything else.
So welcome, Willicks.
Well, thank you, and Iappreciate you taking the time
out for this podcast, thisinterview.
(01:32):
I've been looking forward todoing this and talking about my
experience with the horses andthe healing experience that I
had with them.
Yeah, I'm so glad we could, wecould do this.
We've been trying to schedulefor a while.
So Yeah, here we go.
So what do you remember?
What stands out in your mindabout the whole thing when we
first started talking about it,when you, when you came and met
(01:54):
the horses?
Well, for me at the beginning, Iwas just kind of like, not
necessarily skeptical, but I wasjust like, well let me just try
it and see what happens.
You know, I had never had anexperience with working with
horses in that capacity, youknow, for them to do some
healing work on me.
And I was very curious about theexperience and I wanted to see
(02:16):
what was going to happen.
And so I just followed yourinstructions and had a very
profound experience on so manylevels.
Can you describe what happened?
I would just like to hear you rereplay the memory for me.
Well, I, when I first got outthere, I saw the horses and.
(02:38):
You told me I was gonna go siton the chair in the middle of
the field, and at first I waslike, sit in the chair in the
middle of the field of thehorses.
That didn't seem kind of like,okay, well I've, I've been in,
in the room with horses in, inthe rings with horses and stuff,
but I never sat in the middle ofa chair.
And so that was my firstimpression was like, okay,
that's, this is going to beinteresting.
(02:59):
But when I sat down in, in thechair and I was just waiting for
the horses to do whateverthey're going to do, and I was
looking around and I just kindof settled into.
The experience I kept lookingover at you to see what you were
doing and, and you were, hadyour little notepad in hand and
I was just waiting for somethingto happen.
(03:20):
And the horses have their ownway of doing things.
And so I didn't know what toexpect.
So I just sat there and thenslowly the horses start moving
around and started movingtowards me.
And there was, what were thenames of the horses that were
there?
It was Sipsi, Firefly, andHulapai, or Pi.
(03:40):
Pi.
And maybe Maddy, maybe Maddy wasthere back then.
No, there was three.
There was three that were inthere with me.
And I remember the horses comingover, you know, like one of it
at a time to just kind of likegreet me or to check me out.
And so I was just sitting thereallowing them to come up to me.
(04:01):
And it wasn't a position that Iwas comfortable in.
Just sitting there and havingthe big horse walk by me and
seeing its big body in my faceand not being able to like,
really like move away from thehorse.
So I thought it was getting tooclose.
Like when you're standing withhorses and stuff like that, and
it, you can move away and stufflike that.
(04:22):
Here.
I was just sitting there and thehorse just had its own
jurisdiction to just move how hewanted to, however close to me
he wanted to get.
And so that was kind of, atfirst it started, you It was a
little unnerving to not be ableto like, quote unquote, protect
myself by moving away.
Very vulnerable.
Yes.
I felt very vulnerable.
And I think maybe it was part ofthat vulnerability that allowed
(04:45):
me to just kind of relax intothe experience because I didn't
really have a choice.
I kept looking at you for sometype of reassurance to feel that
I was, it was safe for me to bethere when this horse was still
alive.
That close to me and doingwhatever it was going to do.
So after they walked around mefor a few moments, they were
both checking me out.
(05:06):
And then a couple of the horseswalked away and started eating
grass.
And I think it was hula pie thatcame up to me and started
sniffing like my head.
And that day I remember it waskind of cool outside and I had a
little skull cap on.
Yeah.
And so I was just sitting thereand it was.
(05:27):
It was kind of nipping at myhead and I got this real deep
impression that the horse wantedme to take my hat off and I did
really didn't want to take myhat off, but I, I don't know if
it was like a communication thatI picked up from the horse, but
(05:47):
the sense was that it wanted meto take my hat off.
So I just thought to myself, I'mnot taking my hat off.
And as soon as I thought thatthought, Hulapai walked away
from me.
He, he gave me a look like,okay, if you want to be like
that, then be like that.
And it walked away from me andstarted eating grass and I
(06:08):
thought, Oh no, what happenedhere?
It's just like the wholedynamic.
I felt the energy shift from,from the, I guess the healing
modality to like, well, I'lljust go back and do my horse
thing.
And so I just took the hat offmy, my head.
And then he looked over and hesaw that my hat was off and he
(06:28):
came back over to me and hewalked over to me and I think he
started kind of like sniffingaround my head.
And that was kind ofuncomfortable because my normal
reflex would be to move away.
And I remember looking over atyou and you're saying just
trust, just trust.
And he was, he was sniffing atmy head and then kind of like,
(06:51):
like nipping at it, not reallylike biting it, but just kind of
putting his lips on it.
I had, and that felt kind ofstrange and I was like wondering
like, okay, what's going tohappen next because horses have
big teeth, they do.
And I, you know, and I had neverhad a horse's big teeth that
close to my skull before.
(07:12):
And so, you know, so I'm, I'mgoing through like a lot of.
emotional things just out ofanxiety and fear that, you know,
this is very, very intimateexperience with the horse and
I'm, I don't feel safe, but thehorse kept doing this thing.
And then it let's see here.
It walked around in front of meand it was facing me like head
(07:33):
on.
And it started to like move itshead up and down my chest.
And I looked over to you and Ithink you said something about
chakras or you know, it wasclearing my chakras.
So I felt, okay, well, she knowswhat the horse is doing, so it's
okay.
It's safe.
And so it, it, it did that.
(07:55):
It went up and down my chest andthen it walked away from me.
And If I remember correctly, itstood in front of me, you know,
sideways so I could see the sideof his body and it opened its
mouth and it just started likeblowing air out of its mouth.
It just stood there blowing airout of his mouth.
(08:15):
And I remember you sayingsomething like, you know, it's,
it's, it's.
Exhausting the, the energy,releasing, releasing the energy
and I'm like, okay, okay, that'scool.
So it, it clears some energy.
I didn't really feel any,anything going on inside of me
at that moment in time, but theysaid, okay, it's releasing
(08:35):
energy.
That's good.
So, and then after it did that,it, it walked around, I think it
walked around me and it cameback to the front of me again.
And this time, you know, it wasdoing the same thing.
And so I, I felt a little morecomfortable knowing, okay, what
it had done the first time andwhat it was doing this time.
But this time it went, you know,he, he, he stuck his head all
(08:58):
the way down between my legs.
He was like in my crotch and hejust stopped there.
He stopped right there.
And I was, I looked over at youand you were like, Just trust.
I couldn't think about trustingbecause I could think all I
could think about is like horseshave big teeth.
Right.
And this is like the familyjewels and he's got his big head
(09:20):
between my legs and I'm kind of,you know, I'm struggling with
not panicking.
And you looked like you werecompletely calm and cool.
I did not know that it was anodd situation.
Oh, having a horse horses headbetween my legs was an odd
situation.
And they kept telling us to dothe case studies.
(09:43):
To just trust and allow thatthat's the mantra.
And that's what we did when wewere up at these at this
retreat.
And so coming home to do thesecase studies, I'm like, okay, I
have to learn how to trust myherd and completely allow
whatever they want to do.
And that's why I had the pad isbecause if I'm writing stuff
down, then my job was not tointerfere.
(10:04):
That's what the case studieswere for.
You do 20 case studies and youdon't interfere.
And trust and allow and it tooka lot of faith for both of us.
So when you were telling metrust and allow You weren't
weren't just comforting me.
You were comforting yourself.
Absolutely Okay, well if I hadknown that It'd have been a
(10:24):
different different thing.
I thought you had it undercontrol I thought I thought you
had it under control too.
I didn't know you were you werepanicking because you look so
Yeah, well maybe it's becauseyou were so calm Okay, she's
she's got this And I'm justgoing to trust her and so the
horse was down there for like itseemed like I don't know like
(10:44):
ages, you know, because I'm, youknow, I'm trying to like breathe
through this and not go intopanic mode because I, I could
sense at that point that thehorse could read my thoughts, so
to speak.
Yeah, it could, it could figureout what I was thinking.
And so I didn't want to have avision of it, like, you know,
having you know, some nut crunchat that moment, you know, you
(11:08):
want to keep everythingpositive, right.
I just keep it neutral.
And so after a while it stopped,I don't know how long it was.
Maybe it could have been like aminute or maybe two minutes or
three.
It just seemed like forever.
Yeah.
It got up, you know, walked awayand it stood in front of me
(11:28):
again.
And then it started to urinateand I'm like, okay, and, and I
think you said, no, he isreleasing energy.
Yeah.
And so letting go.
He's letting go.
Yeah.
And I was trying to figure out,okay, well, what did, what type
of energy did he extract from meat that point in time?
But I didn't really dwell onthat too much because I was just
(11:50):
happy not having that horse headbetween my legs.
Right.
Right.
So it did that, it urinated, andthen it kind of walked away and
then Sipsy came up to me.
And at that point, I had kind ofrelaxed into feeling what the
(12:11):
horses were thinking and kind ofcommunicating on that level.
And so she was a little hesitantat first.
To approach me and I remembersaying to her, like, come on,
you can do this, you know, thisis, this is easy.
You're a great healer.
I was thinking that, yeah, I wasthinking that in my mind and
she, she came a little bitcloser, took a few more steps
(12:34):
and kind of looked around andthen she came a little bit
closer.
And and then she walked behindme.
I remember she walking behind meand and she, I think she walked
behind me and stopped.
And I looked over at you and youwere like, you know, again,
trust.
And she, she did like a completecircle around and she backed,
(12:56):
she backed off, she came backtowards me and then she lifted
up her, her hoof and put itright on my left side.
And I looked at you again, causethat was another panic moment
and I was panicking inside, butyou know, I was looking at you,
the cool, calm face of, ofCourage and I, I didn't know
(13:18):
because I'm thinking like, ifthis horse puts any pressure on
my leg, it'll just snap it intwo.
I mean, it's a 2, 000 poundanimal and it was just resting
this hoof right on my leg.
And, and then it started to petmy, my thigh.
To tap with it.
Yeah, it was tapping it.
You know, it was just tapping itwith his hoof.
(13:39):
And even, even it was very lighttapping, but I was still
thinking like, if it's just ahard tap, I'm going to be
walking out of here in crutches.
Right.
You know, because, you know,horses are very powerful
animals.
And it did that tapping for Youknow, my, my experience of time
(13:59):
was like kind of warped becauseonce you get in there and you
start working with the horses,you don't have like a you know,
the experience of, of, ofliteral time, our linear time
falls away when we slow down andwe enter their world.
Right.
Yeah.
That's what the experience was.
I had entered into their world,their world of time, and it was
(14:20):
a different experience of timein itself.
Because everything just seemedmore ethereal in that space.
You know, it was just, I hadstepped into their world, like
you said.
And so it did that and it walkedaway and then it came behind me
and I started nipping at the, mylower back and I could feel it
(14:44):
like, it's kind of like biting,not biting, but massaging with
their lips and kind of like,yeah.
And their teeth kind of nippingat my belt.
I felt a few little tugs on mybelt.
And it did that for you know, afew minutes, but like you said,
I don't know how long it couldhave been like five seconds, but
it just felt like a long enoughtime for it to do what it's
(15:08):
going to do.
And it, it, I think it did acircle around me again.
And once it got behind me, itwrapped itself around me.
I remember the horses behind Hisrear end was on the left side of
me and his head was on the rightside of me and it had completely
(15:29):
encircled me.
And I don't think I could seeyou at that point in time, but I
remember you saying, Oh, she'sgiving you a hug.
And at that moment I felt, Oh,okay, that's, that's nice.
It's comfortable.
I felt comfortable with it.
But just being totally enclosedby the horse's body.
She made like a crescent aroundyou.
(15:50):
Yes, exactly.
She made a crescent around meand do you remember during these
times anything that was going oninside you?
Like, do you remember feelingany particular way?
Well, as it progressed into thehealing process, I felt myself
like moving into their, theirexperience of time and moving
(16:14):
out of my experience of time.
And so I wasn't really.
What I noticed was like, youknow, my consciousness was
shifting and it was shiftingmore out of like a state of fear
and into more of a state ofacceptance because I was
(16:36):
starting to feel comfortablewith whatever the horses were
doing.
I didn't feel as if, you know,at like the first time when,
when he first approached me andput his head between my legs, I
didn't feel like that type ofanxiety that felt like I could
trust the horse, they knew whatthey were doing, especially
after.
You know, sipsy was patting onmy leg.
(16:57):
At that point, that was, thatwas like a realization for me,
like the horse is actually doingsome work and it knows what it's
doing and it's really doing sometherapy on me.
You know, that was a moment thatwhen I had a an experience of
just like, okay, let me justrelax into it.
(17:18):
And it seemed like when I didrelax into it, the horses were
able to to do work on a, on itsown level.
And I remember, I think it wasSy, she walked around in front
of me and she did a release too.
But she just, oh, you know, shejust stood there and she was
just like, you.
She, she closed her eyes.
and just stood there and as ifshe was meditating.
(17:41):
And you, you, you said somethingto me to the effect that, okay,
she's just doing the same thingfly was doing.
It's just releasing energy, butshe was doing it in her own way.
So I just sat there watching hermeditate for whatever length of
time it was.
And And then when she finished,you know, she walked away and
(18:05):
who was the other horse, thethird horse that was there?
Firefly.
Firefly.
Was that the?
The old, the old one.
The old one.
Yeah.
Okay.
With a blonde mane.
Right.
Firefly didn't come over.
The third horse didn't come overto me.
I get the names confused andeverything.
It didn't come over.
(18:25):
It came up and it looked at me,and I was looking at it, and, It
was as if I was tipsy I was Iwas told I was encouraging to
come on, you know, come in anddo what you're going to do.
And, but with the third horse isit like firefly firefly.
I just kind of looked at it andit looked at me and.
(18:48):
I don't know if we, we didn'tconnect or if we were just like
looking at each other and, andit was analyzing me and saying,
well, you look like you're done.
You don't need any more orwhatever, but it didn't come
over and do any direct work onme like the other horses did.
(19:10):
And so it did walk around me andwhen it started walking around
me, the other horses started.
walking around me.
So they had like a littlecircle.
They had circled the horsesaround me and then they walked
behind me and they formed atriangle.
You remember that?
The sacred geometry that theydo.
The sacred geometry.
Okay.
(19:30):
And I had my back to them and Ididn't really want to like You
know, turn around and stare atthem to see what they were doing
because I knew that theypositioned themselves behind me
for a reason and I was just tolike, look forward and they were
going to do, they were doingwhatever they were doing.
And so I looked and I saw themstanding there and they were all
(19:51):
like, they all have their heads,like in the same position, the
same height from the ground, youknow, just kind of like a, like,
like a military position thatthey were in just frozen in that
state.
And we were there for, I don'tknow, another period of time.
It could have been five minutesor could have been two minutes,
(20:14):
but I was in horse time at thatmoment.
And, you know, I looked at youand I think you said, you know,
the sacred geometry.
And so, So at that point, I juststarted trying to feel into what
was going on there and what, youknow, what type of energies I
was getting from the horses.
And I don't know if at thatmoment I started to feel like,
(20:36):
you know, a lot of emotionalenergy welling up within me as
they were just, you know, beinglike these silent sentinels
standing behind me, you know,guarding my back.
I was trying to go through a lotof rationalizations as to what
they could be thinking, whatthey could be doing.
But something said, just let goof all that mental turmoil that
(21:00):
you're putting yourself throughand just relax into, you know,
the sacred geometry of it.
So that's what I did.
And I think once they finishedwith that, I think that was kind
of like the end of theexperience.
And then they kind of went backto doing what horses do is eat
(21:22):
grass and whatnot.
And I was just sitting there andyou asked me a few questions,
how I was feeling, but at thattime I really couldn't.
articulate anything because Iwas really spaced out.
You know, I, at that moment, Irealized I'm, I'm in an altered
state of consciousness.
And you know, I just wanted tokind of stay in that state.
(21:45):
I felt like there was somehealing going on.
And, but I couldn't really putmy finger on it.
And we were having a littledialogue at that point in time.
And I remember getting up fromthe chair that I was in and
starting to walk away.
Everything kind of seemed inslow motion, but what I noticed
(22:05):
is that the pain, I had like apain in my back, lower back
where I had.
injured my spine L4, L5, I hadlike some herniated disc and,
you know, that would happen along time ago, but sometimes
because I sat in a chair at workall the time, you know, that
would, you know, I could feellike it getting sore or stuff
(22:25):
like that.
And so I had that pain when Iwalked into the arena with the
horses, I wasn't thinking aboutit because, you know, you get
used to a pain.
You try not to think about it.
Right.
Yeah.
But when I got up, you know, myexpectation was like, okay, here
comes that pain again.
Cause it was always kind oflike, I got up, but I didn't
feel any pain at all.
And I moved my body.
(22:46):
I started moving my body arounda little bit.
And I was like, my, my pain inthe back is gone.
And then I realized, Oh yeah,the horse was working on the
left side of my body, you know,with the tapping and was also
like nipping at the back of my.
My back on that side of my bodyand they knew exactly where to
go.
I mean, they just, okay, he'sgot some pain over here and
(23:07):
we'll work on that.
And they took away the pain andI got up and, you know, I walked
over to you and you had yournotes and we chatted a little
bit and then we went down.
I think down towards the houseand sat, sat in the shade and,
and did a little debrief, moreof a debrief.
But I was still like in analtered state of consciousness.
And so our conversation waslike, in my, my awareness was
(23:30):
kind of, you know, really slow.
We're just talking, right?
And the sun was beaming, the daywas warm and the horses were
grazing.
And it was just one of thosetype of like, surreal type of
experiences.
Yes, yes.
Yes.
Yeah, well, those that thank youfor recounting the whole thing.
(23:50):
Yeah.
From my perspective.
I had no idea that you werehaving any trouble trusting the
horses.
I thought you quite brave andand calm and confident looking
and I do remember I used to dothe intakes.
You know, like, do you have anypain or tightness in your body,
one to ten?
Do you have, you know, like,there were these questions I
(24:11):
would ask going in and then asthe exit also after the session.
And so there were those.
And then you kept bringing mepeople.
Like, you were so great abouttalking about the experience
and, and bringing people.
I remember there was that onewoman Who is visiting you from
another state.
And I don't remember her name.
(24:31):
We never really talked.
I didn't get to know her, butshe sat in a chair in a metal
folding chair in the middle ofthe field.
And Pi came over and bit thethird finger pinched with his
teeth, the third finger on eachof her hands.
And she sat in that chair andcried for 20 minutes, never said
a thing.
Got up and said, thank you.
That was just the most profoundexperience.
Never heard what it was about.
(24:53):
Right, right, right.
Yeah.
I remember watching that myself.
I was just curious to see whatthe horses were going to do with
her.
But their treatment was totallydifferent than what I
experienced.
Like I said, you know, at firstit looked like, you know, when
they were doing the biting, itwas just like, Oh, that, that
doesn't, you know, I'm, I'mthinking like, well, that
(25:15):
doesn't look right.
You know, they didn't bite melike that, but that wasn't what
I needed.
You know, they did what they,they had to do for me.
And I remember her crying and I,I didn't know if they had, at
first I thought, well, did theyhurt her?
But I figured, well, if they hadheard it, then she would have
made some type of move to escapefrom the experience, but she
(25:35):
just sat there.
in that, that, that grief, ormaybe it wasn't even grief.
Whatever it was, it wascathartic.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And it was just, so I just satthere and just held, holding
space on the sideline on theoutside of the the arena until
she finished.
And like you said, she, when shefinished and she was done, she
got up and came out of thearena.
(25:56):
And I could tell she was like inanother state of consciousness
as well, but whatever the horseshad had analyzed.
Was needed.
I don't think they analyzethings.
They just into it or whatever.
Yeah, whatever they did theyjust did the right thing the
right medicine for her and Shegot a benefit from it and then I
(26:21):
brought another friend Downthere to have the experience as
well.
And I remember her she wasrecounting where the horse was
She had on a vest and the horsegrabbed the the little zipper
and was trying to pull it down.
He, he unzipped her.
Yeah.
He unzipped her and, and thenstarted working on her.
(26:44):
And that was a totally differentexperience than, than the other,
my experience and my otherfriends experience.
And so, yeah, that was you know,because I was curious at that
point to see how this washappening.
Yeah.
And how did, and thinking abouthow do they know what to do?
And that was a, an experience ofme, you know, firstly,
(27:07):
understanding the, the nature ofthe, the horses and how broad
and expansive.
their consciousness is right,being able to take in what's
going on in our consciousness tohowever they're doing that,
whether they're reading ourenergy and our bodies, where our
(27:29):
bodies hurt, right?
Yeah.
And being able to take thatenergy.
and then discharge it, which wasa good thing.
I wouldn't want the force takingthe energy in for me and holding
it in its own body.
But and so I was, I was quiteamazed at the, the entire
experience.
So yeah, I was like, man, yougot to come and check this out.
(27:51):
Let these forces work on you.
And I told them about myexperience and they were like,
wow.
That sounds interesting.
Let me, I want to check it out.
So that's why I was bringingmore people to you.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Those were good times.
I was so appreciative of thatand all the learning that I did
of trusting them and staying outof the way.
And it's constant.
It's not like I learned it.
(28:11):
And I have it every time I'mwith the horses and people, I
don't know what's going tohappen next.
And it takes, it takes faith andtrust all the time.
And, and there's a line of like,you know, should I, should I let
the horses bite people?
I mean, it's usually just thegildings.
The girls don't do that, but Ihave a different horse other
(28:35):
than pie pie passed away, I haveCharlie and gildings are more
mouthy than mares.
And there've been lines whereI'm like, no, just use your
lips, just your lips.
And he still likes to use histeeth sometimes.
And I'm always back and forth onthis fence of, you know, should
I make sure he doesn't do that?
(28:55):
Can I even make sure he doesn'tdo that?
Or can I completely trust andallow, you know, the horses to
do their healing work and it,and they, it's different every
time it's always different.
Right.
One experience that I recall nowis that the first horse, Pi, Pi,
(29:19):
it circled around, after it doneall the releasing of the energy,
it did a circle around me, andthen it came back and it stuck
his head down between my legsagain a second time.
And at that point, I wasn't asanxietal about the whole
experience.
And it was just down there and Icould feel it's, it's hot breath
(29:39):
from its nostrils, you know, youknow, between my legs.
And, you know, it got up and itjust walked away and did
whatever it was going to do atthat point.
But I do remember the secondtime, but the second time it
wasn't as, as scared orfrightened about the experience.
Of just having a big horse'shead like down there.
(30:00):
Did you ever make any sense ofthat?
Did it ever, like, have anymeaning for you?
Well, I think that, you know, itwas, perhaps it was just
clearing some toxic masculinityor energy of that sort.
I couldn't, that was the onlything that really registered
with me.
(30:21):
I didn't think of anything elsethat it could have been doing.
So, you know, it was doing somehealing work.
Of course it had to do withsome, with masculinity.
That's that's the sense that Igot as well, but we never had
that conversation really about,about it.
So maybe it was the energy ofmasculinity that, that we refer
(30:45):
to as toxic, but also at thesame time, it's, it was like a
undeveloped wounded.
Energy that needed to be healedas well.
The wounded part of it was, youknow, I can relate to that from
my experience with my father.
And the wounded masculinity thatI saw in him.
(31:07):
And perhaps that was, you know,the thrust of it.
Maybe it was more of thewounded.
Masculine as opposed to thetoxic masculine, but it probably
was a little bit both becauseyou know, I had my my days of
toxic masculinity in my Teenageearly days, you know, my wild
buck days and and that, thatdefinitely needed to be cleared.
(31:30):
And so that was probably part ofthe whole process.
I always felt like Pi reallyunderstood that because when we
got him, he had, he was a BLMMustang and he was also a
foundation Appaloosa and webought him from some people and
they'd had him about a year andhe had been gelded.
(31:52):
at a later age, been caught andgelded at a later age at like
six.
So he was, when we first gothim, stallions have different,
like their muscles are much moredeveloped than geldings.
And so he had like, you know,muscles on his head and his neck
was really big.
And, you know, he was a, a muchbigger horse.
And when I think about, youknow, gelding a horse later I
(32:14):
mean, that's almost thedefinition of wounded.
Masculinity in a very physicalway.
And so that was the sense thatI, I made out of what, what was
going on.
Although I never, you know, younever know for sure.
Well, do you think that, youknow, with him having
experienced that gelding andunderstanding how he went from
(32:36):
like big module or to more mildmannered horse he could have
since that in my own person youknow, because I was never like,
you know, like you know, likethat alpha type of personality,
you know, but I still presentedmyself as such.
And so it could have been like,okay, well, here's some more
(32:57):
alpha energy that you might needto move forward in life as well.
I hadn't thought about it inthat sense, but.
in retrospect and looking backat the things that I needed in
order to to, to go out into lifeand to do the things that I
needed to do.
You know, there is like thatalpha element to that and to go
(33:19):
out and create your reality,create your world takes a lot of
that, that yang energy that youknow, on the masculine side.
And so that wasn't a, a traitthat I was, had carried.
In particular because I wasjust, you know, going along with
the, the status quo of, youknow, you go to school, you get
(33:41):
your college education and yougo out there and you get a job,
you know, as opposed to, like,going out there and building a
business or something like that.
You know, there's a differencebetween.
Getting a job and building abusiness.
There is a difference.
Right.
And there's a little bit morealpha.
And when you go out there andsay, I'm going to build my
business and make somethinghappen.
And I think that that wassomething that was lacking in my
(34:02):
life at that time to go outthere and to make, make my life
happen as opposed to acceptingwhat was given to me, and
perhaps it was.
Helping to instill some of thatenergy in me.
Do you feel like there was ashift after your time working
with the horses and bringingpeople?
Well, I, in terms of just theshift in the energy that you're
(34:26):
saying, let you, that you neededat that time.
Well, let me think.
I think there was a there was ashift in energy in that I became
more proactive in wanting to domy own thing.
And, and to focus on the thingsthat I had been putting off like
(34:46):
writing the things that, youknow, the book that I was going
to write, I said, okay, let mestart writing this.
Let me start putting thistogether.
Let me collate my data, startgathering my information.
So, so yes, I think that it didhelp give me a little more
impetus to, to go out and startmaking things happen for me as
opposed to waiting for a raiseor a promotion or something like
(35:10):
that.
Yeah.
And I do remember likeafterwards, you know, I've had a
greater interest in learningmore about You know equine
therapy And i've read, you knowstarted reading materials and
looking at you know videos Ononline about how horses work
(35:30):
with people And I saw this onevideo where this person was
actually laying on a massagetable And the horse was going
back and forth on top of theperson's body, you know with his
long nose and everything And Iwas like, wow, you know, I I
didn't know that it was You Asextensive as that is having
someone on a massage tablebecause in my experience was
(35:51):
just sitting in the chair andhaving them work on me in the
field, but this is like in amassage room.
Well, maybe a stall or whatever.
And the person was laying on usthat this is this is really
amazing.
Yeah.
And so I would imagine thatthere's probably other
processes.
Besides that, now I've, I'velooked at into like the, you
know, working with the horses,working with children, like
(36:12):
autistic children, I've watcheda lot of videos on that and how
the horses interact with thechildren, how they are able to
discern exactly as in my case,exactly what it is that that
particular child needs and howto work with that child's energy
to bring about a positive andbeneficial change.
(36:33):
and adaptation in that child.
And, and so I, I reallydeveloped like an interest in,
in wanting to be more involvedin the equine therapy after
watching that in my ownexperience, because I was still
buzzing from that experience fora few days afterwards.
Yeah, it was very profound.
(36:54):
How was it today?
We spent a little bit of timewith the horses.
It was maybe, maybe less formal.
Yeah, it was enough, less formalexperience for myself.
I was just looking at it fromthe perspective of other client
that you had there getting theexperience for herself and not
so much for myself.
(37:15):
I was just wanted to be likepart of the herd at that moment
and just hold space along withthe horses, you know, for her
because they started working onher and they didn't really seem
to be paying a whole lot ofattention to me.
So I just said, okay, well, it'snot my, it's not my party and
just let her have all theattention.
(37:36):
But it was interesting watchingthem.
Yeah.
And then after she left, you hada little, there was you and I
were in the ring together andthen they paid more attention to
you.
Right?
Yeah, they were.
Yeah, they were just kind oflike doing their, their, their
Sentinel type of just standingthere, right next to you, right
next to us.
(37:57):
And whatever energy work theywere doing, they were, they were
doing it.
And so I just closed my eyes,because that's what I felt like
was needed when they're thereand you're in their space.
You may feel that that way youmay feel like you just want to
close your eyes and justSurrender to whatever it was
that they were doing and sothat's what I did Until it was
(38:21):
time to to go on to the nextthing.
It's interesting to me the wayyou began to describe about Pi
and your hat.
Like that you just had thissense that you wanted, he wanted
you to take the hat off.
And it's not like a voice, it'snot like a picture, it's not
even like the feeling of yourhat coming off.
(38:41):
It's just this idea that seemslike, It could have been your
own, but it probably isn'tright.
It was a knowing, a knowing.
Okay.
Because I've had, I had the samething not too long ago, this
last summer where I'm sure Sipsywanted me to lay down and it
kept coming to me like that.
Like, you want me to just laydown, just lay down and, and I
(39:05):
finally did.
And she went and she put herhoof on my chest and I was
feeling very, very vulnerable.
And, but I'd had this, like thisproblem in my back that had not
healed.
It was like six months.
And I think it was a type ofadhesion, you know, from your
fascia.
And I'd been to massagetherapists and all kinds of
(39:27):
things, trying to get this thingfixed or, or just resting it and
trying to get it to heal and putcreams on it and, you know, And
she put her hoof on my chest andI immediately wanted to put my
hands under her hoof and likepush her hoof away.
Right.
But before I did that, she kindof slid her hoof off the side of
my ribs, not terribly hard, andmy back was fine.
(39:49):
She fixed my back.
Right.
Yeah, right.
That must have been prettyintimidating though.
I mean, she's my horse and thefollowing week I've been saying,
Oh, I completely trust thishorse.
And then when I'm underneath herthinking she's going to step on
me, I really got to put, youknow, put my body where my mouth
is.
Right.
Right.
Right.
It's, it's not always easy, butit's never been a mistake.
(40:13):
Trusting the horses has neverbeen a mistake.
Yeah, I hear you.
I hear you.
I mean, you're looking at a 1500pound.
But it was like gentle.
It was a gentle.
They just had like the rightamount of pressure.
Like on your chest.
Like on my, on my leg.
To not injure us, but to do the,you know, to, to affect the
(40:37):
healing.
Right.
And Sipsi has gotten really goodat being so careful and
deliberate in her movements.
You know, which I think helpspeople trust her.
You know, like it's not anaccident.
She's not rushing anything.
She's, she's moving reallyslowly and really deliberately
and asking for trust.
(40:57):
Right.
Yeah, she, I think sheunderstands, you know, people
from a more sensitive.
Feminine way if you want to saythat because like you said the
gelding's they're just likeaggressive They just go for it
and hey, I don't care whatyou're gonna think.
It's like whatever It's likehey, this is what I need to do
and you either go along with itor else, right?
(41:18):
But The the horses relate to youI guess from what they
experience is From their ownpersonalities as well because
all the horses have their ownpersonality Their own healing
capacity, their own healingskills, their own healing
knowledge, even though they're,they're healing you from the
perspective of the horse, theyeach have very unique
(41:41):
techniques.
And they work together sometimesand they work separately and
they take turns and they backeach other up.
It's it's really interesting.
I'd, I'd like to do more, youknow, I've taken some time off.
I've experimented with somedifferent things and it's good
to arrive back here.
It's good to remember with youthose, those first case studies
(42:03):
and discovering all of that and,and the work they did, it was
phenomenal.
Yes, indeed.
It was.
And.
You know, and that's, like Isaid, it spiked my interest in
learning more and, and togetting wanting to get involved
in the equine therapy because Isaw the benefits of it for
myself.
(42:24):
And it also helps to bring backthat, that.
human connection to the earth,the earth connection to the
horses, you know, that cycle oflife where we're all here to,
to, to, to assist and celebrateeach other.
And because we work on thehorses, you know, we take care
(42:44):
of them.
And, and this was an opportunityfor them to take care of us, to
return that in, in, in the waythat they know how to.
Yeah.
And you know, and I can see howpeople can develop these, these
really intimate relationshipswith the horses when they have
that, that, when they know thatthe horse understands them, the
(43:04):
horse sees them right.
And in a, in a, in a completelynonjudgmental way.
You know, you don't get any typeof flack from the horses about,
you know, anything about who youwere or what you did or how you
got to this place.
They're so forgiving.
Right.
They're so forgiving and it'stotally, yeah, totally
(43:27):
unconditional love, if you wantto call it that.
Yeah.
And you feel that, and maybethat's part of the The, the, the
consciousness shift that occursbecause we shift into like
their, their world, theirreality and what it's like to be
in a place of 24 sevenunconditional love and belonging
(43:50):
and belonging as, as one'snatural state, as opposed to
it's like some desired statethat we are, you know, we're
chasing, I feel like they reallyare trying to teach humans that.
There's another way to live.
Absolutely.
Our culture doesn't embracethat.
Right.
(44:10):
And the things that I've readabout people that have been
around horses, you know, therelationships that they, the
bonds that they create, youknow, is an attestment to that.
There is another way that we canlive.
Not just with the animal world,but with ourselves, with each
other, with other humans.
And, you know, when I askedRupert Isaacson, who does the
(44:34):
work with autistic children andthe horse boy method and wrote
the book horse boy and the moviewhen I asked him if he was part
of the quiet revolution, hezoomed out.
And talked about what you'resaying, the, the revolution of,
yeah, there's another way forhumans to be with humans, not
just with horses.
Right.
(44:55):
And I think that's, that's wherehumanity has to go in order to
return to our humanity.
Because things right now, whenyou look around, it's just
crazy.
War is fighting, violence,everything on television is
violence, violence, violence.
And I experienced in that circlewith the horses.
(45:16):
You know, a world where therewas no sense of violence.
Like that there was just it wasa very tranquil environment a
very tranquil space and you youfelt held by the the energy of
the space itself.
You know what I'm saying?
Right.
(45:37):
And they, they do they cometogether and they form that and
even like when you would noticethat Firefly wasn't directly
participating.
She's always there holding thespace.
Mm hmm.
You know, that's.
That's what they do.
And, you know, maybe that's justa little thing that we can do
for each other, too, is with theintention of holding space for
(46:00):
when other humans are goingthrough things.
It doesn't really require much,but the intention of it is.
And being quiet, right?
I know Myself when I firststarted doing my my healing
work, you know, I was it wasDifficult for me to just hold
space without trying to be, youknow, the savior, you know
(46:23):
helping them and learning fromthe horses What holding space
was like enabled me to just bequiet and listen?
and if and if that was all thatwas needed was just listening
without trying to You Reach outand do anything, you know,
sometimes it's just necessary tojust be there and hold that
space And the feel held in thespace by, you know, by the
(46:47):
horses was a learning experiencebecause I hadn't experienced it
to that degree of intensity.
Because when they ground, theyare so grounded.
Right.
That it spreads.
And, you know, Firefly has shownme that lots of times that when
things are chaotic, the bestthing to do is just to ground
yourself and hold your space andmake that intention and wait.
(47:09):
Right.
I've watched her do it.
She's demonstrated it for me.
And then I've gone into hecticsituations right afterwards and
applied what she taught me.
And it's only a matter of maybe10 minutes before the chaos
stops, everybody gets quiet andthey start asking questions.
Right, right, right.
You know, exactly.
This has been a really greattalk, Willis.
(47:31):
I'm so glad we finally could gettogether and recount the
memories from the early workwith the horses and I always
enjoy it when you come visit.
Yes, this it was good.
It was good to be out with thehorses again and to see them do
their thing and just to be inthat space in that arena and not
(47:52):
like learning how to train thehorses, but allowing the horses
to train me and in, in theirworld and their way of being.
Good stuff.
Popular Podcasts
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Intentionally Disturbing
Join me on this podcast as I navigate the murky waters of human behavior, current events, and personal anecdotes through in-depth interviews with incredible people—all served with a generous helping of sarcasm and satire. After years as a forensic and clinical psychologist, I offer a unique interview style and a low tolerance for bullshit, quickly steering conversations toward depth and darkness. I honor the seriousness while also appreciating wit. I’m your guide through the twisted labyrinth of the human psyche, armed with dark humor and biting wit.