What if a single bite could send you home again? Chef Ollie Walleck joins us to explore how memory, empathy, and rigor can reinvent what a kitchen feels like—and what guests taste on the plate. From his start as a teenage cook chasing the service rush to leading teams at The Midway in San Francisco, Ollie breaks down the craft behind food that scales to thousands without losing nuance, warmth, or soul.
We get granular about culture change: why the scream-and-throw era doesn’t build loyalty, how radical candor and respect keep teams together, and why calm is the strongest position when the weeds close in. Ollie credits mentors who embodied presence and precision, then shows how he translated those lessons into systems that make large events run smoothly. He argues the most expensive ingredient isn’t caviar—it’s time. Time to think through a dish, teach it, and respect the guest’s time with food that’s clever, consistent, and genuinely satisfying.
We also talk candidly about identity and visibility. As an out trans man, Ollie shares why leadership that’s openly queer matters to hospitality’s future, and why cities like San Francisco feel built from queer joy, not just tolerant of it. The throughline is simple and powerful: judge a chef by what they plate and how they care for people. If you’re a rising cook, a culinary leader, or just a guest who loves thoughtful food—from nightclub snacks to festival service—you’ll find lessons on scalable creativity, systems that hold under pressure, and the kind of kitchen culture that lasts.
If this conversation resonates, follow the show, share it with a friend, and leave a quick review to help more curious food lovers find us.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_00 (00:05):
Welcome to Hotel Daddy.
I'm your host, Blake Danner.
In today's episode, I speak withChef Ollie Wallach.
We'll dive right in and get toknow Ollie, exploring his unique
journey and the stories thathave shaped his career in
hospitality and food andbeverage.
Expect some candidconversations, some honest
reflections.
Whether you're an industryinsider or you just love a good
story, you're in the rightplace.
(00:26):
So hey kids, if you're listeningto us today on your morning run,
stay alert, kick up thatendurance a bit, and enjoy the
run as we open the doors toHotel Daddy.
Chef Ollie Wallach has over 15years of culinary experience
with an emphasis on freshfarm-focused ingredients and is
known for his playful andcreative take on dishes.
(00:47):
Currently, the executive chef atthe Midway, nestled in San
Francisco's Dog Patch District,the Midway is a sprawling 40,000
square foot hub of creativityand innovation, welcoming all to
discover, create, interact, andbe moved.
It's a vibrant venue celebratingthe confluence of music, art,
cutting edge technology, and ofcourse, culinary arts.
(01:08):
Before joining the Midway, Olliewas the executive chef at the
Freehand Hotel and the KitchenBistro in Chicago.
And before that, the radio roomin circa 33 in Portland, Oregon.
As an out and proud trans man,Ollie was featured as the
speaker for the University ofWisconsin's Chef's Speak Out
series.
He's been a publishedcontributor in BuzzFeed's Tasty
(01:29):
Pride Cookbook, and has beenfeatured on Kitchen.com, Eat
Queer, San Francisco Eater, GoPride, and the Windy City Times.
When he's not innovating menusor testing a new recipe, Ollie
can be found at the dog parkwith his best friend and
hungriest sous-chef, his goldendoodle, Murphy Boku.
Ollie, did I say that right?
Murphy Boku.
(01:49):
Ollie, welcome to Hotel Daddy.
I am so excited to have you heretoday.
By the way, I'm excited to haveyou here.
I'm excited for thisconversation, and I'm excited to
reconnect.
You and I haven't actuallyspoken in a couple years.
For sure.
No, I miss you.
I miss you too.
We've Instagrammed, we've DM'd.
This will be a greatreconnection.
One of the reasons why I reallywanted you on season one is so
(02:10):
far, we've talked to a lot ofreally senior leaders in the
business, people that have been25, 30 years in the C-suite.
We have an episode with Michelinstar James Beard Award-winning
chef David Myers.
And I think you're just a greatcompliment to all these
conversations because in myhumble mind, you're that next
generation.
You are what's coming up inCulinary Talent today.
(02:33):
I'm super interested to hearyour take on what culinary is
gonna look like five years fromnow.
Before we dig in, there'ssomething we do here at the
beginning of every episode thatI like to call who's in the
lobby.
All right, I am gonna ask you aseries of rapid fire questions.
And Ollie, you just say thefirst thing that comes to your
mind.
Are you ready?
(02:53):
Are you ready with the believebutton?
Yeah.
What's your name?
Ollie.
Zodiac sign.
Aries.
Sweet or savory?
Savory.
First dish you ever cooked?
Scrambled eggs.
Favorite late night snack.
PvJ.
We have the same taste.
One ingredient you just can'tlive without.
Vinegar.
Coffee or tea?
Tea.
(03:13):
Hot sauce.
Yes or no?
Always.
Cookbook or just experiment andthrow it down.
Ooh, I have my own systems.
Alright.
So that's not experiment.
That's just you know yourgo-tos.
SPEAKER_01 (03:26):
I like this is a longer answer.
Sorry, it's not rapid fire.
Give it.
I want to hear it.
I'm pretty adept with Excel andI have my own suites written
out, and a lot of my cooking hasto be adaptable and scalable
from anywhere from 50 to 500.
I am really good at whippingsomething up and then scaling it
out.
Yeah, we're very different thatway.
Last rapid fire question kitchenmusic.
SPEAKER_00 (03:48):
Silent or banging playlist.
Banging.
It has to be.
That one does not surprise me.
I can't wait to be in thekitchen with you.
I want to hear the playlist.
So listen, let's jump in.
I have known you professionally.
I've watched your career.
I've been super excited to seehow you continue to grow and
continue to be creative.
And quite frankly, I've lovedwatching you find your own voice
(04:09):
and exude much more confidence.
But I don't know what really gotyou into culinary.
What first drew you into thisculinary world that you're in?
SPEAKER_01 (04:16):
First got me into culinary was why I started
working in restaurants when Iwas about 14.
There was a cafe nearby.
I always loved cooking at home,but there was a like a pizza
place called Zeppy's Kitchenthat I walked in and I wanted to
make some money.
And I fell in love with thekitchen crew.
I fell in love with the sort ofpirate nature of it at the time.
(04:40):
I was like a fairly attractive14-year-old girl.
And a couple weeks into myemployment, the owner told me
that he only hired me because heliked the way my ass looked in
sweatpants.
Oh no.
He's surprised by how hard aworker I was.
You overcame it.
Well, I was like, I'd never beenmore flattered.
SPEAKER_00 (05:01):
Okay, with that auspicious start then, when was
the defining moment where yourealized it wasn't just about
making some cash and it wasn'tabout the people you worked with
at that moment?
It was that maybe cooking wasyour calling.
When was that moment?
Do you remember a flashpointwhere you're like, oh wow, this
is what I want to do?
SPEAKER_01 (05:17):
In terms of the service standpoint, it was a
number of moments where the rushof it and the adrenaline and the
environment felt like I justnever wanted to get away from
the theater of that and thedrama.
It was a point where I knew Iwanted to cook professionally
forever.
I had come back from New YorkCity and while my mom was sick,
and I made her a dish that wasfish and chips because she grew
(05:38):
up in Australia and she took abite and she said that she felt
instantly like she was six yearsold on the dock.
And I was like, I want to givepeople that feeling for the rest
of my life.
SPEAKER_00 (05:50):
Isn't it interesting how food can draw up emotion?
It can draw up feelings.
That's something that we don'ttalk about a whole lot, but I
think food is very inspiring ina way, right?
SPEAKER_01 (06:01):
Entirely.
It's the most sensuous blend tome, the most direct chemical
experience of art and memory andscience for people that it's not
only like the flavorsthemselves, but like where were
you, who were you around, howwere you feeling?
All of those feelings can beinvoked in just a second with
flavor.
SPEAKER_00 (06:19):
I think both flavor and smell.
You know, there are some foodsthat all I need is a whiff, and
it takes me back to a moment, amemory that I always will attach
to that smell.
And they're always goodmemories, interestingly enough.
What were your biggest coloringinfluences?
What defined your style?
SPEAKER_01 (06:36):
My two chef mentors in their own ways.
My first mentor, JonathanSawyer, he was at a place called
the Greenhouse Tavern inCleveland, and he stepped on
deck like a bear, like acaptain.
Like that show is triggeringjust because oh shit, like the
real deal is here.
I remember he was showing me howto make this dish that was
(06:56):
pretty signature to him in therestaurant, foie gras steamed
clams.
And I made it and I thought itwas perfect.
And he came over to taste it,and he's like, give me just two
seconds.
And he swirled it twice with hisjust his right hand, and it
completely transformed the thingthat was like, uh, this guy's a
wizard.
He was terrifying.
Was like, this is back in theday when it was not uncommon for
(07:18):
not just him, but other peopleto, you know, throw plates and
scream and all that fun, violentstuff.
But I really learned from himthat your physical presence has
to be powerful and like you justkind of have to step on and
literally step on deck.
SPEAKER_00 (07:32):
This is a topic I want to double down on because
one of the reasons that I'm soexcited to talk about you is
where's culinary going?
What's the future look like?
But you know, you have justdescribed what I think to a lot
of us is the stereotypicalhistorical chef, super
aggressive, harsh feedback,creates this persona.
And I guess my question for youis does that work anymore?
(07:53):
Can that be the future?
SPEAKER_01 (07:54):
I think it hasn't been the future for a little
bit.
When I say 15 years, like whenmy 15 years, it's closer to 20
and 25, right?
Because I'm I'm 38 now andstarted cooking at 14.
It's always been a little bitahead of societal trend, too, in
my imagination and in culture.
Like also growing up in kitchensas a woman and then
(08:16):
transitioning right before beingpromoted very quickly as a Sioux
chef, as a head chef, and mycareer for the last 12 years at
least being executive chef.
It's been really interestingthat like the environments that
I witness now are completelydifferent.
And if anything, I feel a bit insome ways like an old tranny
yelling on my porch and an oldchef yelling on my porch, too.
(08:37):
No fucking idea how hard it was.
Like, you know, it's novelguaranteed, and you're not
entitled to all of these likegentle leadings, and the work is
hard.
But that doesn't mean you havethe people leading it have to be
cruel.
You don't gain loyalty byscaring people.
SPEAKER_00 (08:53):
Really interesting because one of the common
through lines that we've heardthrough season one talking to
leaders like yourself is thatstyles have had to change in
culinary arts because you'redealing with really creative
folks, their tolerance forputting up with some of that old
style leadership, it's gone.
The old chef who was thescreamer-yeller, that doesn't
(09:15):
work anymore.
And I think because of a highlykind of creative workforce,
they've had to transition,they've had to change, they've
had to be more sensitive totheir kitchen.
SPEAKER_01 (09:24):
There's a general zeitgeist and vernacular that's
shifted entirely.
Like even growing up, the transand all the language and tools
of language that I have accessto now for my own identity were
nowhere near available.
And it's only in the past 10years that we've seen this
massive release of language thatI think has scared a lot of
people into the backlash thatwe're seeing.
But in the same way, thatempathy around identities and
(09:48):
empathy around people existingand being sensitive is a new
thing for a lot of environmentsto deal with.
And there's always going to beplaces that are difficult and
violent and in all of thosescary things.
If you want a kitchen thatlasts, it has to be built from a
place of respect and radicalcandor and that sort of empathy
for people.
SPEAKER_00 (10:08):
So then let me ask this because you're an executive
chef now, you run a kitchen,you're at a 40,000 square foot
big environment.
What's your style?
What's your leadership style?
Forget your cooking style for asecond.
What's your leadership style?
You've got a kitchen of staffthat work with you.
How do you want them to perceiveyou?
SPEAKER_01 (10:23):
They know that I love them.
I love how hard they work.
I work very hard.
I don't need to prove that tothem and they don't need to
prove it to me.
We just need to do it.
And I think that that's aday-to-day thing that, like, if
you love what you're doing andif you love the environment,
even when things get tough anddifficult, you can still remain
professional.
And that respect, I think, likegoes deeper than a day-to-day
(10:45):
this day or this service or thisevent was hard.
That overall we work togetherfor a long time.
Like that's what makes itsustainable.
SPEAKER_00 (10:52):
You've grown your career so fast and so well and
so notably.
Do you feel an obligation tohelp the next generation of
chefs that you're working with?
Like, do you feel an obligationto help them uh have that same
success?
SPEAKER_01 (11:05):
No, fuck them.
Run away, babies.
I love it.
I want people to want my job.
The more support we have fromunderneath, the more we can grow
higher.
Do you cook differently at homethan you do in a professional
kitchen?
Yes.
I cook like a garbage raccoonfor myself.
Again, we have the same taste.
I shred a head of cabbage andmake some grilled chicken and
(11:27):
then sort of parse that out formyself throughout the week.
And mostly my dog eats very,very well.
SPEAKER_00 (11:32):
So let's talk about the future of kitchens for a
second.
We talked about leadership andstyles that have changed over
the years, shall we say?
What do you think the future ofculinary looks like?
What do you want to take it to?
SPEAKER_01 (11:43):
My favorite part of my job now is I mean, we do
massive corporate events, we docafes that are open, but I my
favorite thing is cooking forthe nightclub and the shows and
the different things that areopen.
Cause I think that theaccessibility of fine dining and
what people expect out of sortof lowbrow and accessible,
available price points.
(12:04):
I really think that the mostexpensive ingredient that anyone
ever will put is their time.
And that's not even time tocreate it.
It's time to have thought aboutit.
It's time to like know how tomake it.
People would be really, reallysurprised at how elegant and
it's not upscale the kind offood that I love doing in
serving 20,000 people at a time,but you can taste that it's
(12:25):
clever and professional.
SPEAKER_00 (12:26):
What I'm really digging right now and the
connoisseur of the New Yorkrestaurant scene is there are a
lot of up-and-coming chefs inNew York that are doing what you
just described.
A really interesting take on ahot dog, everything bagel
version of egg rolls.
It's traditional in nature, butthey've just given it this
little wink and nod that I don'teat it and go, oh my God, this
(12:48):
is the best thing I've evertasted in my life.
I eat it and I go, This iscreative.
They took time, they thoughtthrough this, and it's a good
fusion of flavors that I'mreally digging.
So I think your point of timemight be the best ingredient you
could put in is noted.
SPEAKER_01 (12:59):
Thanks.
My experiences in Portland as asort of creative breeding
ground, each city is sort ofdoing things interestingly and
more creatively than other onesare going to do five years
later.
But the melting point of acrossthe country, and like as soon as
things start to get nationalattention, you know, what's the
next crow nut?
Like with those kinds of thatkind of thing.
Chefs need to move around more.
(13:19):
Stop staying in only one cityyour whole career.
I think that's boring.
SPEAKER_00 (13:22):
Good advice.
What's the biggest misconceptionpeople have about being a chef?
SPEAKER_01 (13:27):
That we cook at home.
The other person who woulddeeply influential of my career,
Jen Lewis, she would always askme every Monday or Tuesday,
whenever we would first come inand see each other.
She would always ask me, Whatdid you make for yourself this
weekend?
And that sort of encouragement,I think, has stuck with me for a
long time to always keep alittle bit about food and the
(13:48):
artistry for yourself, if it islike what you're going to
dedicate your life and yourcraft to.
How many chefs do you thinkdon't really cook a lot at home?
98%.
SPEAKER_00 (13:56):
It's so funny you say that because I think all of
us non-foodies think that allyou guys, you go home and you
throw together this fancy,beautiful meal every night.
I've been very honest aboutthis.
No one has ever reached out tome because of my culinary
excellence.
I can scramble some eggs on mybest days.
I think we all have thisimpression that, you know, you
go home every night and you dothis great, beautiful display.
(14:18):
My senses talking to a lot ofchefs lately.
SPEAKER_01 (14:20):
That's just not the case.
It's a unique privilege of ourjob that we get to do something
that we artistically love andthat a lot of people do as their
stress release.
If an orthodontist doesn't gohome after 14 hours and is like,
I just want to look at teeth.
SPEAKER_00 (14:36):
You know, it's so funny you say that because that
makes so much sense to me.
I'm a business guy.
I spend all day doing budgets.
The last thing I want to do whenI go home is do a budget.
But I do think a lot of us thinkthat, you know, yeah, they're
cooking every night at home.
Interesting.
So, what is the most valuablelesson that you've ever learned
in the kitchen?
In the kitchen to stay calm.
SPEAKER_01 (14:54):
Oh, wow.
The strongest and most powerfulI've felt is when things were
getting a little hairy, get alittle weeded, and people are
starting to get a little snippyand losing their heads.
The first instinct is to shoutsomeone down or to whatever it
is, but I've had people screamin my face.
And I think the most powerfulposition I've ever taken is to
(15:16):
just stand calm, shut it down,but stay the calmest one in the
storm.
That's helped me in my lifeimmensely.
SPEAKER_00 (15:23):
I love it.
One of the things that we havetalked a lot about on this
series is well-being.
Well-being, fitness, meditation,all those things.
What do you do to stay calm?
You know, you're running thisbig operation, you're in the
weeds a lot.
What do you do to stay calm?
Well, we're not in the weeds alot because it's so well
organized.
SPEAKER_01 (15:41):
Too shape.
What's also wonderful about mycurrent position is that Murphy
gets to join me at work prettyoften, more often than not.
And he really is my life'sbeacon lighthouse towards joy
and enjoyment.
He keeps everybody happy.
He's a kitchen dog, he's grownup around them.
And just looking over at hislittle face where he's just
(16:02):
happy to be there and sweet.
SPEAKER_00 (16:03):
I love that story.
And I'll tell you why.
We were talking just this weekabout my passion for fitness.
And that's kind of what is myleveler.
The person I was talking withsaid, Well, but Blake, fitness
is yours.
It's different for everybodyelse.
And what I just heard you sayis, yeah, for me, it's Murphy.
Murphy is that calming impactthat I need to stay balanced and
stay centered.
I love that.
(16:24):
He's my fitness.
So, Ollie, can I tell the storyof how you and I met?
Yes.
By the way, I don't I don't knowthat I've ever even told you
this story.
I think back a lot about how wemet and what I thought was some
unique circumstances.
So, to table set this for thelisteners, I was the COO of
Sadell Group.
We were open in the Freehandbrand.
We had opened Freehand in Miamito great success.
(16:47):
The bar lab boys knocked it outof the park with Broken Shaker.
Just the whole project was justa home run.
And that allowed us to go on anddo, you know, Freehand LA and
Freehand New York and FreehandChicago.
Freehand Chicago was about toopen and there's a lot of
pressure.
You know, it was reallyimportant to us.
It had to be successful.
Everybody was lots of eyes onit.
And frankly, through great folkslike you, it ended up being a
(17:09):
huge success.
But I remember that this was soimportant to the company you
were interviewing to be theexecutive chef at Freehand
Chicago, opening Rook andShaker.
I can't remember if you werestill interviewing or if I came
down right when you wereaccepting the role.
I don't remember that part, butI remember this was very
important to the company and Iwanted to fly in and meet you.
And so I came to Chicago and youand I met personally, and I
(17:32):
still remember it, like it wasyesterday, the top of the left
side of the mezzanine, and wewere having a lovely
conversation.
And about 10, 15 minutes intothe conversation, a little voice
went off in my mind, and I said,Oh, Ollie is a trans man.
Cool.
Okay.
And we kept on talking.
And then it dawned on me justhow happy I was in that moment.
(17:53):
And I give Andrew Zobler a lotof credit for this wonderful
environment and culture that hecreated at Sadell.
But you know, there was a lot offolks that were involved in
setting up my meeting with you.
And what I love about this storyis nobody felt the necessity to
asterisk or say, hey Blake, justso you know, like, no, I got a
copy of notes from your tasting.
(18:14):
I got your resume.
A couple of folks stopped by andsaid, Oh, you're meeting Chef
Ali.
I think he's gonna be a greataddition to the team.
Like nobody felt obligated todisclose anything else to me.
As I think about that story, Ihope that that's always the way
it is.
But I want to ask you, has thatalways been the way it is?
SPEAKER_01 (18:31):
That's so funny that that's your first memory of it.
I remember they were telling youyou were visiting, you were very
health conscious.
And I was like, okay, I'm gonnamake a Blake special.
I'm gonna do like grilledchicken, avocado.
What else is he like?
And so I'm glad that that atleast my anxiety didn't read
through.
SPEAKER_00 (18:45):
Not at all.
You got the job and you came onand you were hugely successful
there.
But I want to hear your take onis it always the case I have the
privilege of passing or whateverthat means in a lot of
environments.
SPEAKER_01 (18:56):
I try to make it a point to have it be something
very, very visible about me.
I think that especially, God,now when there's threats of us
being designated terrorists andwhatever, just by virtue of
being trans, I think it's moreimportant than ever that trans
visibility doesn't go away andis ultra visible in leadership,
(19:16):
in higher-end environments.
And that, you know, I thought,what was his name?
BD Wong.
Who was it that promised usthings got better?
I want to live up to that forall the queer people out there.
For I think hospitality inparticular has always been a
safe haven for queer folk.
You know, if if we can presentthe drama and then miracle of
having two existences coincideand take care of people, then
(19:39):
why not?
I think that lends itselfspecifically to having queer
people and queer environmentsand welcoming because it is
about caretaking and an intimacyoutside of your home with a
stranger.
And the queer people are adeptto doing that.
Interesting.
SPEAKER_00 (19:54):
As an out, proud gay man, I feel like right now I
have a huge responsibility to bevisible.
Just be visible.
I don't have to lead with it.
It's not how I define myself,but I just want my life to be
visible.
I want it to be visible sopeople understand who and what
we are, right?
And I want to be visible for allthe people who can't quite be
yet.
You know, I have the greatluxury of I can be really
(20:17):
visible right now.
And so I want to own that.
So what's visibility look likefor you?
SPEAKER_01 (20:23):
Visibility looks like I've never been anyone but
myself.
And you would have no idea whatwould that maybe have changed
for you ahead of time if you hadknown I was trans.
I mean, I don't think anythingbecause you're you, but for some
people it might change somethingif they ahead of time know my
filthy secret or whatever it is.
It's a huge part of my life.
Living in the world, my life hasbeen informed by existing as a
(20:46):
woman and then transitioning,and then my perspective of a man
living in like having lived as awoman, like none of those things
exist in a vacuum.
There's nothing that I have toreally push in people's spaces
by doing my day-to-day job.
But I think that's anotherlovely little side benefit of
having such tangible work.
I'm good at what I do.
It's not because I'm trans, it'snot because whatever, it's it's
whatever.
I'm just good at what I do.
SPEAKER_00 (21:08):
So by the way, that's why I particularly love
the story about how we met,because it wasn't about you
being trans.
It was just, oh, had greattastings, great resume, think
he's gonna be good in thekitchen.
That wasn't the issue.
Like you were just judged onwhat you were gonna bring to the
kitchen.
And I think in large part that'show it should be.
SPEAKER_01 (21:25):
In the same way that anything kind of outside of the
kitchen, any other candidate forthat role, you know, like, oh,
and he's a Catholic.
Like we would have never known.
Right.
Just it's what's not important.
Right.
How do they do their job?
How do they lead?
How are they around to be like,like, are they a pleasure to
work with?
SPEAKER_00 (21:41):
Those qualities I think are what's important.
So listen, it's interesting.
Throughout the first season ofHotel Daddy, we really haven't
been, if you want to call itpolitical, you know, it's not
really what Hotel Daddy's about.
But as I prepared for thisconversation with you, I just
like you.
I have respect for you.
You're a person that I adore andI've watched you grow your
career.
And when Steph and I weretalking, I was like, I care for
Ollie, and Ollie's someone Iadore.
(22:02):
So I don't know how to have thisconversation without just asking
you, how are you doing?
How are you doing in thismoment?
Because I this is a fraughtmoment right now for the
community.
So because I care, how are you?
SPEAKER_01 (22:13):
That's very sweet of you.
I really appreciate that.
It is reminiscent of the firstround of things.
And I think that at least thistime around, it's a little bit
less gaslighty.
First go of things, I try toframe it as like 2016 through
2020.
Anytime there was like, oh, butbut that'll never happen.
But like the thing, they wouldnever.
(22:34):
And now things are sort ofslowly coming to pass just one
month after the next, that areall of these terrible things
that we would never havefathomed four years ago, three
years ago, 10 years ago.
And it's scary.
It's very scary.
I'm a white dude passing personliving in a very wealthy city
with a good job.
I really try to just keep tomyself in a lot of ways.
(22:56):
The people who are more indanger to me, trans women, women
of color, all of my stuff, thoseare people I think about every
second of every day here.
But it's yeah, it's uh it's notlooking great.
I'll say that.
But I think that the morevisibility, like when I when we
talk about visibility, if morepeople just knew trans people as
humans and not whatever monster.
100%.
SPEAKER_00 (23:16):
Back to my comment.
I'm not overly political.
I don't think I'm an activist.
I just think I adore Ollie and Iwant Ollie to live his full life
and potential and be supportiveof that.
SPEAKER_01 (23:26):
Thanks.
I want you too.
I think that inherently livingthe lives that we do, like
whether we want to be or not, weare political.
Just the freedom and ability.
There's nothing to me that ismore American than the ability
and freedom to choose your ownpath and to choose your own
life.
SPEAKER_00 (23:41):
Interesting.
I've always said that my supportof the trans community isn't
necessarily because I'm a hugeactivist or you know, I'm I'm
carrying the banner, but it'sbecause I've just always been a
live and let live person.
I approach it from thestandpoint of I want you to live
this wonderful full life.
And so whether it's anysubgroup, so to speak, of
people, my support has usuallybeen pretty foundational, which
(24:02):
is just who I am and how Ibelieve, which is come on, let's
just all do our thing and getalong, you know?
Genuinely.
Like, who is it harming?
My God.
So let me ask this question.
When I saw that you had moved toSan Francisco, and again, we
hadn't talked in a while, and Isaid, Oh, I'll end up in San
Francisco and very liberal city.
And my immediate thought was,you know, I wonder why he moved
(24:22):
to San Francisco.
And then it dawned on me, well,Mike, probably moved to San
Francisco for all the reasonsanybody else moves there.
What was your move to SanFrancisco?
Was there a part of you thatthought the community there
might be more supportive, itmight be easier, or was that
even a thought?
And am I just attributingsomething that I shouldn't?
SPEAKER_01 (24:39):
No, it absolutely is.
It's the safest.
It's the to me, and I'm surethere are other places.
I hope people do argue with youand say, like, no, this place is
super safe to be gay.
This is to me the last safestbastion of queer people in
America.
We are untouchable.
This is a city that is built onpleasure and queerness and gay
people at its very, very rootsand core.
(25:01):
It doesn't feel like, what's theterm?
Where it's like a militarycompound.
It doesn't feel like a sanctuarycity in that way.
It feels like the ground itselfis built from it.
SPEAKER_00 (25:10):
I'm gonna close out this topic on I just think the
best thing you and I can do asmy case, a senior business
leader in your case, this up andcoming young culinary talent.
I think the best thing that wecan do is just continue to be
visible, you know, live ourauthentic lives, be visible, and
not let it completely define us.
(25:30):
Amen.
What's next for youprofessionally?
What are you hungry to do?
What comes next?
SPEAKER_01 (25:35):
Yeah, we are, well, what's really, really awesome is
our company is rapidlyexpanding.
And we're about to do another20,000-person show at Golden
Gate Park and coordinating allthe food to feed 20,000 people
in an interesting and fun, andthe crews that build the stay
like stages and the artists, allof those different things is
(25:56):
really, really fun for me tocoordinate.
SPEAKER_00 (25:58):
In this conversation, I hear as much
passion about food, which I Ihear loud and clear, but I also
hear a lot of passion aboutevent planning and quantity food
prep and being able to feed themasses and something that's
super interesting.
Am I misreading that or is thatpart of what drives you?
Not at all.
SPEAKER_01 (26:15):
That's a that's a very big part about what drives
me.
I personally can cook adelicious thing.
I can cook it myself 20 times, ahundred times, but teaching a
team of 50 to individually beable to do all these things with
very clear systems and do themreally well, and then just like
go with a like a master, what isit, conductor?
(26:35):
That's really fun for me.
I love that.
SPEAKER_00 (26:38):
How important in that environment is consistency?
Crucial.
It doesn't exist without itbeing consistent and precise.
Final question for you, Ollie.
You have had a great careertrajectory, and I'm so proud
that, you know, I can say I knewyou in the beginning, ish, ish,
uh, and I've watched from afaras you've continued to grow, and
I'm so proud for you.
(26:58):
And I really, by the way, I'vealso watched your confidence
grow.
You know, I see you now onInstagram, and you just have
such presence, and and that'sjust this confidence that you
continue to kind of walk in andown.
And I love that for you.
But if you were to give a youngchef some advice on how to have
the same level of careertrajectory that you've had, what
would it be?
SPEAKER_01 (27:19):
Number one, thank you, you sweet angel.
I think honestly, that's it.
Like the Dunning Kruger ofconfidence level when what you
think you know versus what youactually know and your your
confidence level around it, whenthat drop-off hits, sort of
staying in that after part foras long as you can, where you
always say, like, I actuallydon't have all the answers.
I know what I know.
(27:40):
And I and I will always continueto work on those things and work
on those tangible skills andpeople skills and keep reading
books about, like, don't justread books about food, read
books about leadership, readbooks about management.
Just staying in that low,thirsty sponge kind of place, I
think is gonna serve anybodywell, no matter the career.
SPEAKER_00 (27:59):
So I've said this so many times, and you nailed it.
And by the way, common commentamongst many of the senior
leaders that we're talking to inthis series.
Don't be ashamed to admit youdon't know everything.
So much feedback around thattopic.
I think you nailed it.
I don't know everything.
I learn every day.
I learn from my teams, I learnfrom junior people in the
(28:20):
organization, but it is aconstant learning curve,
incredibly sound advice.
SPEAKER_01 (28:25):
People trust you when they think that you're a
person.
If you're just this monoliththat like impossibly knows
everything, they're gonna be tooscared to bring you their
problems.
They're gonna be too scared tobring you their mistakes.
They want to know that you atleast understand what a mistake
looks like or a lack of knowingabout something.
And that's really crucial tomaintain trust with your people.
SPEAKER_00 (28:43):
Ollie, thank you for joining me today.
So look, I like to give everyguest the final word.
Anything that we didn't talkabout today, or anything you
want to say to the listenersbefore we cut out today.
I love you.
SPEAKER_01 (28:54):
I don't know.
You have been such aninspiration for me.
Just your consistency, yourdedication, your thirst, and
your your ferociousness thewhich you approach life has
always been an inspiration.
And I love you to yours.
Uh, I love you back.
SPEAKER_00 (29:10):
Thank you for joining today.
Kids, this has been Hotel Daddy.
Thanks to Chef Ollie Wallach forbeing my guest today.
Thanks for listening to HotelDaddy with your host, Blake
Danner.
Be sure to like and subscribewherever you get your podcasts.
Welcome to Hotel Daddy.
I'm your host, Blake Danner.
In today's episode, I speak withChef Ollie Wallach.
We'll dive right in and get toknow Ollie, exploring his unique
journey and the stories thathave shaped his career in
hospitality and food andbeverage.
Expect some candidconversations, some honest
reflections.
Whether you're an industryinsider or you just love a good
story, you're in the rightplace.
(00:26):
So hey kids, if you're listeningto us today on your morning run,
stay alert, kick up thatendurance a bit, and enjoy the
run as we open the doors toHotel Daddy.
Chef Ollie Wallach has over 15years of culinary experience
with an emphasis on freshfarm-focused ingredients and is
known for his playful andcreative take on dishes.
(00:47):
Currently, the executive chef atthe Midway, nestled in San
Francisco's Dog Patch District,the Midway is a sprawling 40,000
square foot hub of creativityand innovation, welcoming all to
discover, create, interact, andbe moved.
It's a vibrant venue celebratingthe confluence of music, art,
cutting edge technology, and ofcourse, culinary arts.
(01:08):
Before joining the Midway, Olliewas the executive chef at the
Freehand Hotel and the KitchenBistro in Chicago.
And before that, the radio roomin circa 33 in Portland, Oregon.
As an out and proud trans man,Ollie was featured as the
speaker for the University ofWisconsin's Chef's Speak Out
series.
He's been a publishedcontributor in BuzzFeed's Tasty
(01:29):
Pride Cookbook, and has beenfeatured on Kitchen.com, Eat
Queer, San Francisco Eater, GoPride, and the Windy City Times.
When he's not innovating menusor testing a new recipe, Ollie
can be found at the dog parkwith his best friend and
hungriest sous-chef, his goldendoodle, Murphy Boku.
Ollie, did I say that right?
Murphy Boku.
(01:49):
Ollie, welcome to Hotel Daddy.
I am so excited to have you heretoday.
By the way, I'm excited to haveyou here.
I'm excited for thisconversation, and I'm excited to
reconnect.
You and I haven't actuallyspoken in a couple years.
For sure.
No, I miss you.
I miss you too.
We've Instagrammed, we've DM'd.
This will be a greatreconnection.
One of the reasons why I reallywanted you on season one is so
(02:10):
far, we've talked to a lot ofreally senior leaders in the
business, people that have been25, 30 years in the C-suite.
We have an episode with Michelinstar James Beard Award-winning
chef David Myers.
And I think you're just a greatcompliment to all these
conversations because in myhumble mind, you're that next
generation.
You are what's coming up inCulinary Talent today.
(02:33):
I'm super interested to hearyour take on what culinary is
gonna look like five years fromnow.
Before we dig in, there'ssomething we do here at the
beginning of every episode thatI like to call who's in the
lobby.
All right, I am gonna ask you aseries of rapid fire questions.
And Ollie, you just say thefirst thing that comes to your
mind.
Are you ready?
(02:53):
Are you ready with the believebutton?
Yeah.
What's your name?
Ollie.
Zodiac sign.
Aries.
Sweet or savory?
Savory.
First dish you ever cooked?
Scrambled eggs.
Favorite late night snack.
PvJ.
We have the same taste.
One ingredient you just can'tlive without.
Vinegar.
Coffee or tea?
Tea.
(03:13):
Hot sauce.
Yes or no?
Always.
Cookbook or just experiment andthrow it down.
Ooh, I have my own systems.
Alright.
So that's not experiment.
That's just you know yourgo-tos.
SPEAKER_01 (03:26):
I like this is a longer answer.
Sorry, it's not rapid fire.
Give it.
I want to hear it.
I'm pretty adept with Excel andI have my own suites written
out, and a lot of my cooking hasto be adaptable and scalable
from anywhere from 50 to 500.
I am really good at whippingsomething up and then scaling it
out.
Yeah, we're very different thatway.
Last rapid fire question kitchenmusic.
SPEAKER_00 (03:48):
Silent or banging playlist.
Banging.
It has to be.
That one does not surprise me.
I can't wait to be in thekitchen with you.
I want to hear the playlist.
So listen, let's jump in.
I have known you professionally.
I've watched your career.
I've been super excited to seehow you continue to grow and
continue to be creative.
And quite frankly, I've lovedwatching you find your own voice
(04:09):
and exude much more confidence.
But I don't know what really gotyou into culinary.
What first drew you into thisculinary world that you're in?
SPEAKER_01 (04:16):
First got me into culinary was why I started
working in restaurants when Iwas about 14.
There was a cafe nearby.
I always loved cooking at home,but there was a like a pizza
place called Zeppy's Kitchenthat I walked in and I wanted to
make some money.
And I fell in love with thekitchen crew.
I fell in love with the sort ofpirate nature of it at the time.
(04:40):
I was like a fairly attractive14-year-old girl.
And a couple weeks into myemployment, the owner told me
that he only hired me because heliked the way my ass looked in
sweatpants.
Oh no.
He's surprised by how hard aworker I was.
You overcame it.
Well, I was like, I'd never beenmore flattered.
SPEAKER_00 (05:01):
Okay, with that auspicious start then, when was
the defining moment where yourealized it wasn't just about
making some cash and it wasn'tabout the people you worked with
at that moment?
It was that maybe cooking wasyour calling.
When was that moment?
Do you remember a flashpointwhere you're like, oh wow, this
is what I want to do?
SPEAKER_01 (05:17):
In terms of the service standpoint, it was a
number of moments where the rushof it and the adrenaline and the
environment felt like I justnever wanted to get away from
the theater of that and thedrama.
It was a point where I knew Iwanted to cook professionally
forever.
I had come back from New YorkCity and while my mom was sick,
and I made her a dish that wasfish and chips because she grew
(05:38):
up in Australia and she took abite and she said that she felt
instantly like she was six yearsold on the dock.
And I was like, I want to givepeople that feeling for the rest
of my life.
SPEAKER_00 (05:50):
Isn't it interesting how food can draw up emotion?
It can draw up feelings.
That's something that we don'ttalk about a whole lot, but I
think food is very inspiring ina way, right?
SPEAKER_01 (06:01):
Entirely.
It's the most sensuous blend tome, the most direct chemical
experience of art and memory andscience for people that it's not
only like the flavorsthemselves, but like where were
you, who were you around, howwere you feeling?
All of those feelings can beinvoked in just a second with
flavor.
SPEAKER_00 (06:19):
I think both flavor and smell.
You know, there are some foodsthat all I need is a whiff, and
it takes me back to a moment, amemory that I always will attach
to that smell.
And they're always goodmemories, interestingly enough.
What were your biggest coloringinfluences?
What defined your style?
SPEAKER_01 (06:36):
My two chef mentors in their own ways.
My first mentor, JonathanSawyer, he was at a place called
the Greenhouse Tavern inCleveland, and he stepped on
deck like a bear, like acaptain.
Like that show is triggeringjust because oh shit, like the
real deal is here.
I remember he was showing me howto make this dish that was
(06:56):
pretty signature to him in therestaurant, foie gras steamed
clams.
And I made it and I thought itwas perfect.
And he came over to taste it,and he's like, give me just two
seconds.
And he swirled it twice with hisjust his right hand, and it
completely transformed the thingthat was like, uh, this guy's a
wizard.
He was terrifying.
Was like, this is back in theday when it was not uncommon for
(07:18):
not just him, but other peopleto, you know, throw plates and
scream and all that fun, violentstuff.
But I really learned from himthat your physical presence has
to be powerful and like you justkind of have to step on and
literally step on deck.
SPEAKER_00 (07:32):
This is a topic I want to double down on because
one of the reasons that I'm soexcited to talk about you is
where's culinary going?
What's the future look like?
But you know, you have justdescribed what I think to a lot
of us is the stereotypicalhistorical chef, super
aggressive, harsh feedback,creates this persona.
And I guess my question for youis does that work anymore?
(07:53):
Can that be the future?
SPEAKER_01 (07:54):
I think it hasn't been the future for a little
bit.
When I say 15 years, like whenmy 15 years, it's closer to 20
and 25, right?
Because I'm I'm 38 now andstarted cooking at 14.
It's always been a little bitahead of societal trend, too, in
my imagination and in culture.
Like also growing up in kitchensas a woman and then
(08:16):
transitioning right before beingpromoted very quickly as a Sioux
chef, as a head chef, and mycareer for the last 12 years at
least being executive chef.
It's been really interestingthat like the environments that
I witness now are completelydifferent.
And if anything, I feel a bit insome ways like an old tranny
yelling on my porch and an oldchef yelling on my porch, too.
(08:37):
No fucking idea how hard it was.
Like, you know, it's novelguaranteed, and you're not
entitled to all of these likegentle leadings, and the work is
hard.
But that doesn't mean you havethe people leading it have to be
cruel.
You don't gain loyalty byscaring people.
SPEAKER_00 (08:53):
Really interesting because one of the common
through lines that we've heardthrough season one talking to
leaders like yourself is thatstyles have had to change in
culinary arts because you'redealing with really creative
folks, their tolerance forputting up with some of that old
style leadership, it's gone.
The old chef who was thescreamer-yeller, that doesn't
(09:15):
work anymore.
And I think because of a highlykind of creative workforce,
they've had to transition,they've had to change, they've
had to be more sensitive totheir kitchen.
SPEAKER_01 (09:24):
There's a general zeitgeist and vernacular that's
shifted entirely.
Like even growing up, the transand all the language and tools
of language that I have accessto now for my own identity were
nowhere near available.
And it's only in the past 10years that we've seen this
massive release of language thatI think has scared a lot of
people into the backlash thatwe're seeing.
But in the same way, thatempathy around identities and
(09:48):
empathy around people existingand being sensitive is a new
thing for a lot of environmentsto deal with.
And there's always going to beplaces that are difficult and
violent and in all of thosescary things.
If you want a kitchen thatlasts, it has to be built from a
place of respect and radicalcandor and that sort of empathy
for people.
SPEAKER_00 (10:08):
So then let me ask this because you're an executive
chef now, you run a kitchen,you're at a 40,000 square foot
big environment.
What's your style?
What's your leadership style?
Forget your cooking style for asecond.
What's your leadership style?
You've got a kitchen of staffthat work with you.
How do you want them to perceiveyou?
SPEAKER_01 (10:23):
They know that I love them.
I love how hard they work.
I work very hard.
I don't need to prove that tothem and they don't need to
prove it to me.
We just need to do it.
And I think that that's aday-to-day thing that, like, if
you love what you're doing andif you love the environment,
even when things get tough anddifficult, you can still remain
professional.
And that respect, I think, likegoes deeper than a day-to-day
(10:45):
this day or this service or thisevent was hard.
That overall we work togetherfor a long time.
Like that's what makes itsustainable.
SPEAKER_00 (10:52):
You've grown your career so fast and so well and
so notably.
Do you feel an obligation tohelp the next generation of
chefs that you're working with?
Like, do you feel an obligationto help them uh have that same
success?
SPEAKER_01 (11:05):
No, fuck them.
Run away, babies.
I love it.
I want people to want my job.
The more support we have fromunderneath, the more we can grow
higher.
Do you cook differently at homethan you do in a professional
kitchen?
Yes.
I cook like a garbage raccoonfor myself.
Again, we have the same taste.
I shred a head of cabbage andmake some grilled chicken and
(11:27):
then sort of parse that out formyself throughout the week.
And mostly my dog eats very,very well.
SPEAKER_00 (11:32):
So let's talk about the future of kitchens for a
second.
We talked about leadership andstyles that have changed over
the years, shall we say?
What do you think the future ofculinary looks like?
What do you want to take it to?
SPEAKER_01 (11:43):
My favorite part of my job now is I mean, we do
massive corporate events, we docafes that are open, but I my
favorite thing is cooking forthe nightclub and the shows and
the different things that areopen.
Cause I think that theaccessibility of fine dining and
what people expect out of sortof lowbrow and accessible,
available price points.
(12:04):
I really think that the mostexpensive ingredient that anyone
ever will put is their time.
And that's not even time tocreate it.
It's time to have thought aboutit.
It's time to like know how tomake it.
People would be really, reallysurprised at how elegant and
it's not upscale the kind offood that I love doing in
serving 20,000 people at a time,but you can taste that it's
(12:25):
clever and professional.
SPEAKER_00 (12:26):
What I'm really digging right now and the
connoisseur of the New Yorkrestaurant scene is there are a
lot of up-and-coming chefs inNew York that are doing what you
just described.
A really interesting take on ahot dog, everything bagel
version of egg rolls.
It's traditional in nature, butthey've just given it this
little wink and nod that I don'teat it and go, oh my God, this
(12:48):
is the best thing I've evertasted in my life.
I eat it and I go, This iscreative.
They took time, they thoughtthrough this, and it's a good
fusion of flavors that I'mreally digging.
So I think your point of timemight be the best ingredient you
could put in is noted.
SPEAKER_01 (12:59):
Thanks.
My experiences in Portland as asort of creative breeding
ground, each city is sort ofdoing things interestingly and
more creatively than other onesare going to do five years
later.
But the melting point of acrossthe country, and like as soon as
things start to get nationalattention, you know, what's the
next crow nut?
Like with those kinds of thatkind of thing.
Chefs need to move around more.
(13:19):
Stop staying in only one cityyour whole career.
I think that's boring.
SPEAKER_00 (13:22):
Good advice.
What's the biggest misconceptionpeople have about being a chef?
SPEAKER_01 (13:27):
That we cook at home.
The other person who woulddeeply influential of my career,
Jen Lewis, she would always askme every Monday or Tuesday,
whenever we would first come inand see each other.
She would always ask me, Whatdid you make for yourself this
weekend?
And that sort of encouragement,I think, has stuck with me for a
long time to always keep alittle bit about food and the
(13:48):
artistry for yourself, if it islike what you're going to
dedicate your life and yourcraft to.
How many chefs do you thinkdon't really cook a lot at home?
98%.
SPEAKER_00 (13:56):
It's so funny you say that because I think all of
us non-foodies think that allyou guys, you go home and you
throw together this fancy,beautiful meal every night.
I've been very honest aboutthis.
No one has ever reached out tome because of my culinary
excellence.
I can scramble some eggs on mybest days.
I think we all have thisimpression that, you know, you
go home every night and you dothis great, beautiful display.
(14:18):
My senses talking to a lot ofchefs lately.
SPEAKER_01 (14:20):
That's just not the case.
It's a unique privilege of ourjob that we get to do something
that we artistically love andthat a lot of people do as their
stress release.
If an orthodontist doesn't gohome after 14 hours and is like,
I just want to look at teeth.
SPEAKER_00 (14:36):
You know, it's so funny you say that because that
makes so much sense to me.
I'm a business guy.
I spend all day doing budgets.
The last thing I want to do whenI go home is do a budget.
But I do think a lot of us thinkthat, you know, yeah, they're
cooking every night at home.
Interesting.
So, what is the most valuablelesson that you've ever learned
in the kitchen?
In the kitchen to stay calm.
SPEAKER_01 (14:54):
Oh, wow.
The strongest and most powerfulI've felt is when things were
getting a little hairy, get alittle weeded, and people are
starting to get a little snippyand losing their heads.
The first instinct is to shoutsomeone down or to whatever it
is, but I've had people screamin my face.
And I think the most powerfulposition I've ever taken is to
(15:16):
just stand calm, shut it down,but stay the calmest one in the
storm.
That's helped me in my lifeimmensely.
SPEAKER_00 (15:23):
I love it.
One of the things that we havetalked a lot about on this
series is well-being.
Well-being, fitness, meditation,all those things.
What do you do to stay calm?
You know, you're running thisbig operation, you're in the
weeds a lot.
What do you do to stay calm?
Well, we're not in the weeds alot because it's so well
organized.
SPEAKER_01 (15:41):
Too shape.
What's also wonderful about mycurrent position is that Murphy
gets to join me at work prettyoften, more often than not.
And he really is my life'sbeacon lighthouse towards joy
and enjoyment.
He keeps everybody happy.
He's a kitchen dog, he's grownup around them.
And just looking over at hislittle face where he's just
(16:02):
happy to be there and sweet.
SPEAKER_00 (16:03):
I love that story.
And I'll tell you why.
We were talking just this weekabout my passion for fitness.
And that's kind of what is myleveler.
The person I was talking withsaid, Well, but Blake, fitness
is yours.
It's different for everybodyelse.
And what I just heard you sayis, yeah, for me, it's Murphy.
Murphy is that calming impactthat I need to stay balanced and
stay centered.
I love that.
(16:24):
He's my fitness.
So, Ollie, can I tell the storyof how you and I met?
Yes.
By the way, I don't I don't knowthat I've ever even told you
this story.
I think back a lot about how wemet and what I thought was some
unique circumstances.
So, to table set this for thelisteners, I was the COO of
Sadell Group.
We were open in the Freehandbrand.
We had opened Freehand in Miamito great success.
(16:47):
The bar lab boys knocked it outof the park with Broken Shaker.
Just the whole project was justa home run.
And that allowed us to go on anddo, you know, Freehand LA and
Freehand New York and FreehandChicago.
Freehand Chicago was about toopen and there's a lot of
pressure.
You know, it was reallyimportant to us.
It had to be successful.
Everybody was lots of eyes onit.
And frankly, through great folkslike you, it ended up being a
(17:09):
huge success.
But I remember that this was soimportant to the company you
were interviewing to be theexecutive chef at Freehand
Chicago, opening Rook andShaker.
I can't remember if you werestill interviewing or if I came
down right when you wereaccepting the role.
I don't remember that part, butI remember this was very
important to the company and Iwanted to fly in and meet you.
And so I came to Chicago and youand I met personally, and I
(17:32):
still remember it, like it wasyesterday, the top of the left
side of the mezzanine, and wewere having a lovely
conversation.
And about 10, 15 minutes intothe conversation, a little voice
went off in my mind, and I said,Oh, Ollie is a trans man.
Cool.
Okay.
And we kept on talking.
And then it dawned on me justhow happy I was in that moment.
(17:53):
And I give Andrew Zobler a lotof credit for this wonderful
environment and culture that hecreated at Sadell.
But you know, there was a lot offolks that were involved in
setting up my meeting with you.
And what I love about this storyis nobody felt the necessity to
asterisk or say, hey Blake, justso you know, like, no, I got a
copy of notes from your tasting.
(18:14):
I got your resume.
A couple of folks stopped by andsaid, Oh, you're meeting Chef
Ali.
I think he's gonna be a greataddition to the team.
Like nobody felt obligated todisclose anything else to me.
As I think about that story, Ihope that that's always the way
it is.
But I want to ask you, has thatalways been the way it is?
SPEAKER_01 (18:31):
That's so funny that that's your first memory of it.
I remember they were telling youyou were visiting, you were very
health conscious.
And I was like, okay, I'm gonnamake a Blake special.
I'm gonna do like grilledchicken, avocado.
What else is he like?
And so I'm glad that that atleast my anxiety didn't read
through.
SPEAKER_00 (18:45):
Not at all.
You got the job and you came onand you were hugely successful
there.
But I want to hear your take onis it always the case I have the
privilege of passing or whateverthat means in a lot of
environments.
SPEAKER_01 (18:56):
I try to make it a point to have it be something
very, very visible about me.
I think that especially, God,now when there's threats of us
being designated terrorists andwhatever, just by virtue of
being trans, I think it's moreimportant than ever that trans
visibility doesn't go away andis ultra visible in leadership,
(19:16):
in higher-end environments.
And that, you know, I thought,what was his name?
BD Wong.
Who was it that promised usthings got better?
I want to live up to that forall the queer people out there.
For I think hospitality inparticular has always been a
safe haven for queer folk.
You know, if if we can presentthe drama and then miracle of
having two existences coincideand take care of people, then
(19:39):
why not?
I think that lends itselfspecifically to having queer
people and queer environmentsand welcoming because it is
about caretaking and an intimacyoutside of your home with a
stranger.
And the queer people are adeptto doing that.
Interesting.
SPEAKER_00 (19:54):
As an out, proud gay man, I feel like right now I
have a huge responsibility to bevisible.
Just be visible.
I don't have to lead with it.
It's not how I define myself,but I just want my life to be
visible.
I want it to be visible sopeople understand who and what
we are, right?
And I want to be visible for allthe people who can't quite be
yet.
You know, I have the greatluxury of I can be really
(20:17):
visible right now.
And so I want to own that.
So what's visibility look likefor you?
SPEAKER_01 (20:23):
Visibility looks like I've never been anyone but
myself.
And you would have no idea whatwould that maybe have changed
for you ahead of time if you hadknown I was trans.
I mean, I don't think anythingbecause you're you, but for some
people it might change somethingif they ahead of time know my
filthy secret or whatever it is.
It's a huge part of my life.
Living in the world, my life hasbeen informed by existing as a
(20:46):
woman and then transitioning,and then my perspective of a man
living in like having lived as awoman, like none of those things
exist in a vacuum.
There's nothing that I have toreally push in people's spaces
by doing my day-to-day job.
But I think that's anotherlovely little side benefit of
having such tangible work.
I'm good at what I do.
It's not because I'm trans, it'snot because whatever, it's it's
whatever.
I'm just good at what I do.
SPEAKER_00 (21:08):
So by the way, that's why I particularly love
the story about how we met,because it wasn't about you
being trans.
It was just, oh, had greattastings, great resume, think
he's gonna be good in thekitchen.
That wasn't the issue.
Like you were just judged onwhat you were gonna bring to the
kitchen.
And I think in large part that'show it should be.
SPEAKER_01 (21:25):
In the same way that anything kind of outside of the
kitchen, any other candidate forthat role, you know, like, oh,
and he's a Catholic.
Like we would have never known.
Right.
Just it's what's not important.
Right.
How do they do their job?
How do they lead?
How are they around to be like,like, are they a pleasure to
work with?
SPEAKER_00 (21:41):
Those qualities I think are what's important.
So listen, it's interesting.
Throughout the first season ofHotel Daddy, we really haven't
been, if you want to call itpolitical, you know, it's not
really what Hotel Daddy's about.
But as I prepared for thisconversation with you, I just
like you.
I have respect for you.
You're a person that I adore andI've watched you grow your
career.
And when Steph and I weretalking, I was like, I care for
Ollie, and Ollie's someone Iadore.
(22:02):
So I don't know how to have thisconversation without just asking
you, how are you doing?
How are you doing in thismoment?
Because I this is a fraughtmoment right now for the
community.
So because I care, how are you?
SPEAKER_01 (22:13):
That's very sweet of you.
I really appreciate that.
It is reminiscent of the firstround of things.
And I think that at least thistime around, it's a little bit
less gaslighty.
First go of things, I try toframe it as like 2016 through
2020.
Anytime there was like, oh, butbut that'll never happen.
But like the thing, they wouldnever.
(22:34):
And now things are sort ofslowly coming to pass just one
month after the next, that areall of these terrible things
that we would never havefathomed four years ago, three
years ago, 10 years ago.
And it's scary.
It's very scary.
I'm a white dude passing personliving in a very wealthy city
with a good job.
I really try to just keep tomyself in a lot of ways.
(22:56):
The people who are more indanger to me, trans women, women
of color, all of my stuff, thoseare people I think about every
second of every day here.
But it's yeah, it's uh it's notlooking great.
I'll say that.
But I think that the morevisibility, like when I when we
talk about visibility, if morepeople just knew trans people as
humans and not whatever monster.
100%.
SPEAKER_00 (23:16):
Back to my comment.
I'm not overly political.
I don't think I'm an activist.
I just think I adore Ollie and Iwant Ollie to live his full life
and potential and be supportiveof that.
SPEAKER_01 (23:26):
Thanks.
I want you too.
I think that inherently livingthe lives that we do, like
whether we want to be or not, weare political.
Just the freedom and ability.
There's nothing to me that ismore American than the ability
and freedom to choose your ownpath and to choose your own
life.
SPEAKER_00 (23:41):
Interesting.
I've always said that my supportof the trans community isn't
necessarily because I'm a hugeactivist or you know, I'm I'm
carrying the banner, but it'sbecause I've just always been a
live and let live person.
I approach it from thestandpoint of I want you to live
this wonderful full life.
And so whether it's anysubgroup, so to speak, of
people, my support has usuallybeen pretty foundational, which
(24:02):
is just who I am and how Ibelieve, which is come on, let's
just all do our thing and getalong, you know?
Genuinely.
Like, who is it harming?
My God.
So let me ask this question.
When I saw that you had moved toSan Francisco, and again, we
hadn't talked in a while, and Isaid, Oh, I'll end up in San
Francisco and very liberal city.
And my immediate thought was,you know, I wonder why he moved
(24:22):
to San Francisco.
And then it dawned on me, well,Mike, probably moved to San
Francisco for all the reasonsanybody else moves there.
What was your move to SanFrancisco?
Was there a part of you thatthought the community there
might be more supportive, itmight be easier, or was that
even a thought?
And am I just attributingsomething that I shouldn't?
SPEAKER_01 (24:39):
No, it absolutely is.
It's the safest.
It's the to me, and I'm surethere are other places.
I hope people do argue with youand say, like, no, this place is
super safe to be gay.
This is to me the last safestbastion of queer people in
America.
We are untouchable.
This is a city that is built onpleasure and queerness and gay
people at its very, very rootsand core.
(25:01):
It doesn't feel like, what's theterm?
Where it's like a militarycompound.
It doesn't feel like a sanctuarycity in that way.
It feels like the ground itselfis built from it.
SPEAKER_00 (25:10):
I'm gonna close out this topic on I just think the
best thing you and I can do asmy case, a senior business
leader in your case, this up andcoming young culinary talent.
I think the best thing that wecan do is just continue to be
visible, you know, live ourauthentic lives, be visible, and
not let it completely define us.
(25:30):
Amen.
What's next for youprofessionally?
What are you hungry to do?
What comes next?
SPEAKER_01 (25:35):
Yeah, we are, well, what's really, really awesome is
our company is rapidlyexpanding.
And we're about to do another20,000-person show at Golden
Gate Park and coordinating allthe food to feed 20,000 people
in an interesting and fun, andthe crews that build the stay
like stages and the artists, allof those different things is
(25:56):
really, really fun for me tocoordinate.
SPEAKER_00 (25:58):
In this conversation, I hear as much
passion about food, which I Ihear loud and clear, but I also
hear a lot of passion aboutevent planning and quantity food
prep and being able to feed themasses and something that's
super interesting.
Am I misreading that or is thatpart of what drives you?
Not at all.
SPEAKER_01 (26:15):
That's a that's a very big part about what drives
me.
I personally can cook adelicious thing.
I can cook it myself 20 times, ahundred times, but teaching a
team of 50 to individually beable to do all these things with
very clear systems and do themreally well, and then just like
go with a like a master, what isit, conductor?
(26:35):
That's really fun for me.
I love that.
SPEAKER_00 (26:38):
How important in that environment is consistency?
Crucial.
It doesn't exist without itbeing consistent and precise.
Final question for you, Ollie.
You have had a great careertrajectory, and I'm so proud
that, you know, I can say I knewyou in the beginning, ish, ish,
uh, and I've watched from afaras you've continued to grow, and
I'm so proud for you.
(26:58):
And I really, by the way, I'vealso watched your confidence
grow.
You know, I see you now onInstagram, and you just have
such presence, and and that'sjust this confidence that you
continue to kind of walk in andown.
And I love that for you.
But if you were to give a youngchef some advice on how to have
the same level of careertrajectory that you've had, what
would it be?
SPEAKER_01 (27:19):
Number one, thank you, you sweet angel.
I think honestly, that's it.
Like the Dunning Kruger ofconfidence level when what you
think you know versus what youactually know and your your
confidence level around it, whenthat drop-off hits, sort of
staying in that after part foras long as you can, where you
always say, like, I actuallydon't have all the answers.
I know what I know.
(27:40):
And I and I will always continueto work on those things and work
on those tangible skills andpeople skills and keep reading
books about, like, don't justread books about food, read
books about leadership, readbooks about management.
Just staying in that low,thirsty sponge kind of place, I
think is gonna serve anybodywell, no matter the career.
SPEAKER_00 (27:59):
So I've said this so many times, and you nailed it.
And by the way, common commentamongst many of the senior
leaders that we're talking to inthis series.
Don't be ashamed to admit youdon't know everything.
So much feedback around thattopic.
I think you nailed it.
I don't know everything.
I learn every day.
I learn from my teams, I learnfrom junior people in the
(28:20):
organization, but it is aconstant learning curve,
incredibly sound advice.
SPEAKER_01 (28:25):
People trust you when they think that you're a
person.
If you're just this monoliththat like impossibly knows
everything, they're gonna be tooscared to bring you their
problems.
They're gonna be too scared tobring you their mistakes.
They want to know that you atleast understand what a mistake
looks like or a lack of knowingabout something.
And that's really crucial tomaintain trust with your people.
SPEAKER_00 (28:43):
Ollie, thank you for joining me today.
So look, I like to give everyguest the final word.
Anything that we didn't talkabout today, or anything you
want to say to the listenersbefore we cut out today.
I love you.
SPEAKER_01 (28:54):
I don't know.
You have been such aninspiration for me.
Just your consistency, yourdedication, your thirst, and
your your ferociousness thewhich you approach life has
always been an inspiration.
And I love you to yours.
Uh, I love you back.
SPEAKER_00 (29:10):
Thank you for joining today.
Kids, this has been Hotel Daddy.
Thanks to Chef Ollie Wallach forbeing my guest today.
Thanks for listening to HotelDaddy with your host, Blake
Danner.
Be sure to like and subscribewherever you get your podcasts.
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