Skip Runnels takes us down memory lane, sharing his journey from a young boy working for his grandfather to becoming a celebrated figure in the Indiana Golf Hall of Fame. Skip opens up about his roots in Richmond, where growing up in the vibrant neighborhood of Spring Grove Heights with four sisters shaped his adventurous spirit. We delve into his family's remarkable history, particularly his father's distinguished military career, and how these early experiences and influences kindled Skip's lifelong passion for golf.
Our conversation shifts to Skip's career trajectory, as we explore the economic challenges he faced and his hands-on experience delivering school buses across the country during college. From these humble beginnings, Skip's dedication and skill paved the way for his 2015 induction into the Indiana Golf Hall of Fame. We reflect on his numerous achievements and the cherished friendships forged through golf, painting a vivid picture of the highs and lows of balancing a career in both business and sports.
Listeners will also get an insider's view of Skip's role within the Indiana Golf Association, from strategic decisions to memorable encounters with golf legends like Arnold Palmer and Jack Nicklaus. We discuss the efforts to make golf more inclusive and the association's post-COVID-19 revival. The episode wraps up with heartfelt stories and reflections, celebrating the camaraderie and countless joys golf has brought into Skip's life. Join us for an episode filled with inspiration, nostalgia, and a deep love for the game of golf.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Michael Allen from Manpower.
We are a national brand, yetlocally owned franchise.
We are familiar with thechallenges businesses face.
It's tough recruiting andretaining qualified employees.
That's why working withManpower is a smart,
cost-effective solution.
Our entire focus is talentacquisition.
We'll manage your hiring andtraining and provide ongoing,
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Since 1966, we have been yourcommunity-invested partner,
(00:24):
uniquely positioned to helpeliminate the hassles and save
you time and money.
Let us help contact Manpowertoday.
Hello and welcome to the Hubpowered by Manpower of Richmond,
portland and Newcastle.
I'm your host, michael Allen,and here on the Hub, we
interview local businesses,community partners and various
special guests, and our missionis just to share a spotlight,
(00:46):
unique and untold stories ofcompanies and organizations and
people who are making adifference in our community and
today.
If you've lived in thiscommunity any length of time,
you've probably heard the nameof today's guest, especially if
you play golf or know anythingabout golf.
Our guest today is skip runnels, and he's arguably one of
(01:10):
russman's most accomplishedamateur athletes.
Uh, he's a 2015 inductee intothe indiana golf hall of fame
and winner of many amateurtournaments around the state of
indiana, as well as tournamentsin the continental US.
Skip, welcome to the Hub.
Hi Mike, how are you Good?
Good, so happy to have you heretoday.
(01:31):
I've known you for many years,probably intimately for about 30
.
I've had the pleasure ofplaying several rounds of golf
with you.
My guess is probably easilyover 100 times.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
I would guess so would.
Speaker 1 (01:45):
Yes, I would think and I know for sure we've played
together in indiana, michiganohio, north carolina and florida
so I know that's correct playedin five states together and, uh
, we've got so much that we cantalk about, uh.
But before we get to that, uh,I want to start with our
(02:05):
tradition here at the Hub, andthat's where we ask every guest
what their very first job was.
So do you remember what thatwas?
Speaker 2 (02:16):
I think, Mike, when I was a little kid, my
grandfather owned a businesshere in town and on the weekends
I would clean his office Emptytrash cans, sweep and things
like that so I think I probablymade about a dime an episode,
and I think that was my firstone, Do you?
Speaker 1 (02:37):
remember the job that you had where you had to, where
actually they cut you a checkand had to have taxes cut out of
it?
Do you remember?
Speaker 2 (02:47):
probably.
Uh, I worked at the elkscountry club when they had made
the switch from the old elks outon elks country club road to
its new location and I workedthere with some of my friends
who were in high school and thatwas probably my first actual
where I punched a clock and gota check.
Speaker 1 (03:08):
So were you like what they used to call the back boys
, or did you go out helping onthe golf course?
Speaker 2 (03:13):
I worked out on the golf course.
Okay, yeah, all right, mowedgreens and things like that.
Speaker 1 (03:17):
So that would have been I don't know in the 60s
early 70s, probably 66, 67.
Speaker 2 (03:24):
Yeah, in the 60s early 70s, probably 66, 67.
Speaker 1 (03:26):
yeah, the course was pretty, pretty immature at that
point.
Fairly new, yes yeah so youknow, you and I just recently
played in um a tournament outthere a few weeks ago, and it's
probably amazing to look at itlike today and then have recall
of what it was like when it wasnew.
Speaker 2 (03:46):
It's come a long, long way.
It's a great club.
It's strong and doing well, andI don't know if my little bit
out there helped at all or not,but that was my first job.
Speaker 1 (03:55):
Oh, that's awesome.
That's awesome.
You've been well-known in thecommunity most of your life.
Arguably, golf is probably amajor reason how people have met
you, maybe heard of you.
But part of what I want tofocus on is you know some of the
personal stuff, so you know.
I guess to begin with, maybeshare with our followers a
(04:18):
little bit about yourself, likegrowing up, your family, those
kind of things.
Speaker 2 (04:28):
Well, I was born here in Richmond and have always
been a native of the area.
My family grew up on SpringGrove Heights, which was up by
the old hospital.
I had four sisters and it was agreat place to grow up.
Lots of other kids played a lotoutside, not in front of a TV
or a computer, and a lot of fondmemories.
Speaker 1 (04:49):
So your parents, Carl and Mary Lou, right?
And so tell me a little bitjust about each of your parents,
kind of about them, and maybesomething that might be unique
about each of them well.
Speaker 2 (05:04):
My father grew up in richmond as well and was an
accomplished athlete andreceived a scholarship to play
basketball at indiana stateuniversity, but world war ii
interrupted that.
My mother grew up over in theTerre Haute area where Indiana
(05:24):
State was located, and after thewar he came back to finish
school and that's where he metmy mother and they got married.
But then the Korean Warintercepted again.
But after that they did moveback to Richmond together and my
(05:45):
dad went to work for his fatherat Reynolds Builders Products.
Speaker 1 (05:51):
Together.
I mean, how long was yourfather in the military?
Speaker 2 (05:57):
Probably six, seven years.
Speaker 1 (06:01):
And did he ever talk much about that or discuss what
his responsibilities were, orwhatever?
Speaker 2 (06:07):
He did not talk a lot about it.
He was a naval fighter pilot inWorld War II.
After the war remained in thereserves but through an
acquaintance in the Navy he hadthe opportunity to switch forces
in the navy.
He had the opportunity toswitch forces so he ended his
commission with the navy andenlisted with the united states
(06:36):
air force as a fighter pilot andwas given the position as the
operations officer for theflorida air national guard and
during that job their squadronwas called up for active duty in
Korea.
Speaker 1 (06:49):
I mean that's to become I would think to become
have that position as a fighterpilot.
I mean, not everybody does that.
I mean you have to have acertain amount of skill level
and just, I guess, certaincharacteristics as a person to
(07:09):
be able to even do that I thinkthey are a special breed.
I'm not sure why his ambitionsled him that direction, but he
loved to fly but rarely talkedabout any of his uh, actual
combat right I don't thinkthat's totally uncommon about,
um, men and women who have beenin those situations that you
(07:32):
know, because they can be verychallenging and tough situations
and some things are just kindof better left back in the
memory banks, right, um, uh, notthat it's a bad thing to talk
those things through, but it'sprobably not uncommon for a lot
of those folks to be in thatposition.
Uh, did he continue to flyafter that?
Speaker 2 (07:54):
not really keep a license.
He.
He kept his license for a while, um, but I think some of the
situations he incurred justmaybe was an underlying decision
not to be involved anymore.
Speaker 1 (08:11):
So how about a little bit about Mary Lou?
Speaker 2 (08:14):
She grew up.
She was born in Illinois butgrew up in a very small town
south of Terre Haute calledFarmersburg.
South of Terre Haute calledFarmersburg.
She was a great student andreceived a full ride to Indiana
University for academics, butback in that day I guess it
wasn't really all that importantand she decided to go to work
(08:39):
instead and actually was asecretary to Tony Hallman at the
Hallman Companies and Tony, ifyou'll recall, was the owner of
the Indianapolis 500.
Speaker 1 (08:50):
Yeah, that's interesting that connection.
So your parents met in TerreHaute never met.
So did your mother, you know,had a, I consider, a fairly
large family.
Five kids is a handful.
I would think so did your mom.
(09:12):
Was your mom mainly at you knowshe work at home with you and
your sisters, or was that, ordid she she?
Speaker 2 (09:19):
was a stay at home mom and it was a full time
position.
Speaker 1 (09:23):
Yeah, I'm sure I mean just caring after you, yeah, so
where do you fall in the birthorder with you and your sisters?
Was a stay-at-home mom and itwas a full-time position.
Yeah, I'm sure I mean justcarrying after you, yeah, so
where do you fall in the birthorder with you and your sisters?
Speaker 2 (09:29):
well, I'm number two, okay.
My oldest sister, debbie, isdeceased, uh, but I do have
three, uh siblings still in thearea.
Um, my next in line would be mysister Leslie, and then Tammy
and then Barbara, okay.
Speaker 1 (09:49):
So what was it like having four sisters?
Speaker 2 (09:52):
I mean it, I mean being the only son, and Well, of
course I thought it washorrible, but as I got a little
bit older I realized how uh uhlucky I had been, and I was
probably spoiled and just didn'trealize it at the time.
Speaker 1 (10:08):
Probably been worse if you were number five.
Probably being the secondoldest, that probably helped.
So you mentioned Spring GroveHeights.
I have some memories of thattoo, because my grandparents
lived up there.
Speaker 2 (10:22):
I know that.
Speaker 1 (10:23):
And I just always loved going up there.
Speaker 2 (10:26):
It's just such a special, unique neighborhood it
was really cool, um, I rememberyour grandmother and grandfather
.
I remember your mother, uh, butthere were a lot of kids to
play with.
We had a great woods or aforest that kind of encapsulated
one of the sides of theneighborhood.
(10:47):
We had a river, which weweren't supposed to play at, but
of course we always did.
It was great adventures downthere and, as far as a kid who
aspired eventually to play golf,it was an incredible
neighborhood because at the time, uh, bill mcclure, leo brook,
(11:09):
scott porter, were all living upthere at the same time.
I was, and they were all cityamateur winners and at the top
of the game in richmond.
So what a place for me to learnhow to play, along with my
father, who was a veryaccomplished player as well.
Speaker 1 (11:26):
And it was kind of an interesting.
There was a little bit of a gapin the age of all you guys too,
Wasn't there?
Speaker 2 (11:34):
Well, leo and Bill were, would have been like my
father's age where Scott Porter,who just recently passed away
In fact I'm the only one left ofthat foursome.
He was seven years older than Iwas.
Did you play golf with thoseguys at all?
Speaker 1 (11:51):
like Leo, I did.
Speaker 2 (11:53):
And you know, back in those days, kids learned how to
play by caddying, and I wasable to caddy for all of them,
including Scott, and that's howyou learn to play by watching
what they did.
And then, after your round as acaddy, you'd go out and try to
imitate or emulate what you hadjust watched.
Speaker 1 (12:11):
yeah, it's interesting, you know, because,
like scott was several yearsolder than you and it seemed
probably when you're youngerthat seemed like a huge gap, but
then later, when you guys gotolder, it's funny how the gaps
almost become non-existent rightnow.
So, uh, but yeah, that's, thatis really cool.
I wasn't there also up there aplace where and I kind of
(12:35):
picture my mind it's like theback side of spring grove where
there was a railroad tracks andthere was almost an elevated it
was was off the ground and youcould walk on it and it was a
little scary yeah.
I remember doing it as a kid andyou know I'm sorry, mom and Dad
, if you're, you know, but Ilived.
But it's just I rememberwalking on that and it probably
(12:56):
is not very high today for youto go back there, but it seemed
kind of scary to walk on thistrack.
Speaker 2 (13:00):
It was very scary and , like you, I wasn't supposed to
be there, but of course we were.
Speaker 1 (13:12):
in fact, today that trestle is still there but it's
part of the cardinal greenwaynow okay, so it's quite safe,
but it's still pretty high.
Yeah, I've never been on thegreenway much and never through
that part, to kind of recallwhat that used to be yeah, yeah.
So, anyway, that's such a greatum, a great area.
So I guess, moving on to school, um, in the Richmond school
(13:32):
system, I mean back when youwere in school, what were kind
of, what were the schools thatyou ended up going to?
Speaker 2 (13:37):
Well, a lot of your people won't remember this, but
I started off at Baxter inkindergarten and then from there
I went to highland school,which is no longer there.
There is a portion of it, thenewer portion, which is still
standing.
It's behind frickers.
But the actual schoolhouse Iwent to uh is where frickers is
(14:02):
currently located.
From there to pleasant view,which is no longer in existence.
The building is still out thereand then from there Richmond
High School.
Speaker 1 (14:13):
I remember especially Highland and also Pleasant View
, and those are probably I meanwhen I hear people speak of
going especially to Pleasant.
View maybe fond memories ofgoing.
It's kind of out in the country.
Speaker 2 (14:29):
It was.
Speaker 1 (14:30):
It was a nice little school to go to.
Speaker 2 (14:33):
It was a great school to go to.
Speaker 1 (14:34):
yeah, after high school you ended up going to
ball state right I did.
Speaker 2 (14:47):
I had somewhat of a pretty good career playing golf
in high school and because ofthat I was being recruited by
some of the division one schoolsin the tri-state area.
I guess maybe even a littlefurther, but it boiled down.
My choice boiled down to eithereastern Kentucky, which was in
(15:09):
Richmond Kentucky, or Ball State, and at that particular time my
girlfriend, who is now my wife,had decided to go to Ball State
.
So that was somewhat of thereason why I went that direction
what?
Speaker 1 (15:26):
what was?
I wonder what recruiting waslike back in the 70s, when you
went, when you were beingrecruited, how that compares to
like today.
Well, maybe it's the same Idon't know.
Speaker 2 (15:36):
It's completely different.
Uh, there are so many moreopportunities for kids to play
in events, which then allowscollege coaches to be able to
track them as they're playing inhigh school, whereas when I was
a kid, there might have beenonly one tournament a year that
you played in, so you had toactually put together a
(15:57):
presentation for yourself.
Letters of recommendation youracademics what you've
accomplished playing golf,things such as that and compile
this presentation and send thoseout to college coaches and if
there were any interest thenfrom what they got they would
(16:20):
contact you normally yourparents, not you and make
arrangements to have some sortof visit.
Speaker 1 (16:27):
And so ended up at Ball State, Enjoyed that
experience.
It was a great experience.
Speaker 2 (16:35):
I got to play there for four years.
We were the first team athleticteam at Ball State to win a
MAAC title, and that was duringmy senior year.
We played at Kent State, so thememories were very good yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:54):
Probably go back to that, maybe a little bit, but I
did want to come back aboutfamily again because I mean
you're associated tremendouslywith golf and a lot of
accomplishments which anytimeI've ever been around you you're
very humble about.
But you did pretty good in thewife and the kids department.
Speaker 2 (17:18):
Oh, I hit an A-plus there.
My wife, like I had mentionedearlier, was from the area.
She was a Westside girl, so Ihad not met her until I got to
high school.
But we met during our junioryear in an English class and
began to date and 50-some yearslater we're still together.
(17:39):
We've been married for 46.
So did very, very well thereand we currently have three
children who are also doing well.
My oldest, casey, uh, graduatedfrom indiana university, which
they all did, but after that shegot her doctorate in iowa.
(18:01):
Uh, to be a chiropractor.
She's a local chiropractor herein town and doing well.
My next daughter, age-wiseJessica, lives in the community
as well.
She is an administrator down atChubb Insurance, which used to
be ACE, which used to be INA.
(18:23):
She has a team of people thatshe's responsible for and she
and her husband live here intown doing well.
And then my son, who is also agraduate of Bloomington, the
Kelly School of Business, whichis a renowned school, was
recruited right from there by aformer graduate of the Kelly
(18:46):
School who was running Whirlpool, and he was recruited right out
of school to go there, thenmade a switch to Delta, delta
Faucets and now has made anothercareer switch and is building
his own business as a financialwealth builder.
Consultant.
Speaker 1 (19:06):
And each of your kids have two kids.
That gives you sixgrandchildren, right.
Speaker 2 (19:12):
Six grandchildren, the oldest being four years old
and two of them just turned four.
So there are a handful, and twoof them live right behind us.
Jessica and her husband live 75yards from our house, so we get
to see them a lot.
Casey's kids are five minutesaway, so we get to see them as
(19:33):
well.
Now Carl, who lives inIndianapolis not quite as often,
but we do a lot of FaceTimingand probably see him at least a
couple times a month.
Speaker 1 (19:42):
So what do they call you?
And Terry, it used to beGrandma and Grandpa, but then
somewhere it changed and nowthere's like 20 different names
to call.
Speaker 2 (19:51):
I know I'm Papa and my wife, whose name is Terry.
They just call her T, Okay,yeah, my kids call me Papa and I
like it.
I like it.
Okay, my grandkids do they havemy kids call me.
Speaker 1 (20:04):
Papa and I like it.
I like it.
Okay, my kids do Uh.
So, moving on to like yourbusiness career uh, you
mentioned uh at family businessand we had spoke, spoken before
and you mentioned that initiallyyou came back and you were
involved in runnels, buildingproducts, and you did that.
(20:25):
For how long did you do that?
Speaker 2 (20:27):
I did that for a number of years and I know you
recall the timing of this, butthere was a recession during the
early to mid 80s and there werefive families living out of
Reynolds Builders Products andit was just determined by my
father and by my cousin's father, who was also working there,
(20:50):
that it might be best for us totry to find different employment
, just from an economicstandpoint, because the business
just wasn't there at the timeto take care of so many people.
And from there then I secured aposition out at the Wayne
Corporation, the busmanufacturer, and worked there
(21:12):
for a number of years andunfortunately that business is
no longer around as well andthen got involved in real estate
business with First RichmondRealtors here in town and then
also purchased a couple of localcoin-operated laundries that my
(21:33):
wife and I operated for alittle over 20-some years.
Speaker 1 (21:38):
I remember those for sure, the you know.
Going back to Ronald's buildingproducts, I mean, when a
recession hits, I mean that'sone of the first things that you
think that's going to stop.
Is people stop new constructionor it becomes more challenging,
and I'm sure that had a reallynegative impact.
Speaker 2 (21:57):
It did.
The type of constructionmaterials that we provided were
not for residential use, it wasindustrial and commercial use
and that type of building justdried up and there wasn't much
of it around of it around.
Speaker 1 (22:24):
So I mean this um wayne corporation.
I mean that was a fairlysuccessful business for many
years and I think they more lostout just to competition.
Speaker 2 (22:28):
Well they perhaps.
Speaker 1 (22:29):
I don't know for sure , because you know there's still
people going to school andpeople got to get on school
buses.
Speaker 2 (22:34):
Well, they did lose out to competition and they,
they also began to falter whenthey kept changing hands.
A new entity would buy andinstead of worrying about
long-term, they were I'm notgoing to say greed, but they
wanted to pull as much out asquickly as they possibly could,
which in a large effect, hurtthe company, which, in a large
(22:59):
effect, hurt the company.
And then the other problem wasthat school buses were built
under such stringent guidelinesthat they would have about a
15-year life cycle, so it's notlike Richmond High School is
going to be buying buses everyyear.
Once you sell one, you may nothave another shot for another 15
years.
Speaker 1 (23:19):
Did you ever do one of those road trips where you
delivered buses?
Speaker 2 (23:22):
Oh, I did several of those during college, I'm sure
lots of people did.
Speaker 1 (23:25):
those Just explain what that was like to people
watching or listening.
Speaker 2 (23:32):
Well, there might be a group of, let's say, six of us
who would take off.
We'd all have our own schoolbus that we were going to
deliver and one of the busesnormally the bus in the rear
would have a tow vehicle thatwas hitched on to the back of a
school bus and it was normally a.
(23:52):
A big van wasn't necessarilythe cleanest van by any means,
but after you made your deliveryyou'd all pile into this van
and come home, hit on back.
It was a miserable time, butyou know you had to do it in
those times just to come up withsome money yeah, I mean, would
they take those as far as, like,the west coast and east?
(24:15):
coast and even as far as alaska.
Now I did not make thatparticular trip, but yeah I yeah
, I've gone to the West Coastbefore.
Speaker 1 (24:22):
Yeah, I'm sure that was.
I mean, whenever I think ofdriving a bus it seems kind of
intimidating because they're sobig.
They are big and maybe drivingfor an hour or two, but just to
drive something like thatclearly across the country.
Speaker 2 (24:37):
Well, you know, on the open roads not so bad, but
when you get into metropolitanareas where you might have six
lanes of traffic, it was prettystressful yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:55):
So you retired in 2018.
So you retired in 2018 and uh.
But I want to go through umback up a few years before you
retired, in 2015,.
Uh, when you were inducted intothe uh, indiana, indiana golf
hall of fame.
So I'm going to painstakinglyhere, go through this.
(25:15):
What they wrote.
So in 2015,.
Uh, ij wrote this about youwhen you were inducted.
So it says when you think ofamateur golf in indiana, skip
runnels is a name that comes tomind.
Runnels was a three-timeletterman winner at richmond
high school.
The 1975 ball stateinvitational champion.
(25:36):
92 and 93 IGA Match PlayChampion.
Usga Team Championship Member.
95, 2000,.
First Indiana Golf Hall of FameInductee.
2002 IGA Mid-Am Champion.
2008 IGA Senior Amateur Champ.
Winner of seven IGA and IGASenior Championships.
(25:58):
A winner of 20 plus and IGAsenior championships.
A winner of 20-plus this iskilling you, I know hearing this
because you're so humble20-plus team championships.
A winner of 15 clubchampionships and the 2013 IGA
senior player of the year andback then, about nine years ago,
62, reynolds continues tofinish towards the top of the
(26:21):
leaderboard in most IGA seniorevents and his sportsmanship on
and off the course does not gounnoticed.
So this doesn't even mention, Ibelieve, 18 city championships
that you won.
So I mean, when you go over allthat, I mean you've had just a
wonderful time playing golf andvery successful career and
(26:45):
competition and and when, andthere's even went on to do other
tournaments in the nine yearsafter this.
Uh, it's just uh.
I mean what?
What kind of memories does itdraw for you?
I mean, I'm sure, a sense ofaccomplishment, but just the
enjoyment, or the people you'vemet, the different courses
(27:06):
you've got to play all thosethings.
Speaker 2 (27:09):
Well, you have to realize I've lost a whole lot
more than I've won.
So when you do have theopportunity to win, it's great
and those memories are great aswell.
When you do have theopportunity to win, it's great
and those memories are great aswell.
But it's unbelievable theamount of people that you meet
and how many of those peoplebecome friends and remain
friends.
Guys that I haven't played withfor years.
(27:32):
I still talk with them, eitherthrough text messages or an
occasional call.
Some of the golf courses, thevenues, have been just out of
sight, just fantastic and uh,without somewhat of my playing
resume I wouldn't have beenallowed to even play a lot of
these places or a lot of theseevents.
So the whole package has justbeen really, you know, a
(27:55):
wonderful thing for me uh, theuh that's.
Speaker 1 (28:02):
Isn't that one of the great things about golf?
Those that some of thebyproducts of it, the game is.
I mean, you love the game,obviously, uh, I love it.
Uh, not that kind of level likeyou were, but that's what's
great about the game of golfAnybody, any level, can play it,
because of the handicap systemand you've got to spend some
(28:24):
time together with people whenyou play golf.
It takes a while.
Speaker 2 (28:28):
It does yeah.
Speaker 1 (28:30):
At least four hours typically, and depending on who
you're playing with, it might begoing to five.
But yeah, I mean, don't youthink that's a unique thing
about the game?
Is relationships that come outof it, because of the nature of
the game it really is, uh.
Speaker 2 (28:48):
And if you remember back some of your terrific
athletes, uh, in other sportswhen you were growing up, if
they didn't have a offshoot likegolf when they got older, I
mean, what were they going to do?
So golf fills that equationperfectly.
It's not that it's a strenuoussport, but if you want to get
(29:09):
better at it, you do have tospend some time and uh.
But, like you said, the greatbyproduct is all the other
things that come along with ituh, gonna go back in time a
little bit.
Speaker 1 (29:22):
Uh, regarding golf is like I'm sure people would love
to know, like, like, when didyou first start playing?
I mean, how old were you?
Speaker 2 (29:29):
I don't actually have a actual date.
Uh, my father was anaccomplished player and I would
guess that he probably put agolf club in my hand when I was
five, six, seven years old.
Uh, I began to play, I think,when I was probably around 10 or
11, where my mother might dropme off at the golf course and
(29:51):
typically I'd stay there all daylong and play.
Speaker 1 (29:54):
So I've been at it for, you know, over 60 years and
that would have been likeoriginally at the old elks,
which is, I guess, consideredeast side of town it is.
Speaker 2 (30:04):
Uh, if you're familiar with where walgreens
and the arboretum is and allwhat's going on out there, there
was a nine hole golf course outthere which the elks had was
originally the old RichmondCountry Club, slash Forest Hills
, but that's where I played.
It was a neat place and theyallowed juniors to be involved
(30:30):
and again, I had several friendsout there who were playing as
well, so we just really tookadvantage of it so that course
would have been there.
Speaker 1 (30:40):
Would Highland have been a course?
Yet no, and now Forest Hillswould have been around.
Speaker 2 (30:45):
Forest Hills was there.
Speaker 1 (30:47):
But that course, I mean, was it pretty busy.
I mean it's just a nine-holecourse.
I mean it seemed like it couldbe potentially tough to even get
on course.
Speaker 2 (31:01):
I mean it seemed like it could be potentially tough
to even get on.
I mean, well, as a kid you knowyou're out there generally when
most of the older people areworking.
So it wasn't difficult for us,but it was very crowded.
In fact that was one of thedecisions why a new location,
they felt like it was needed,and to expand to 18 holes, and
you also had the glenn millercourse, which again was just
(31:22):
nothing more than nine holes.
So there was a lot of activitygoing on, golf wise back in
those days uh, then the new alksyou know out on the south side
of town 18.
Speaker 1 (31:39):
I mean you were there , I mean you can remember when
it opened.
Speaker 2 (31:43):
Yes, I did.
Speaker 1 (31:44):
Would have been in late 64, I think when that
facility opened.
And so we talked a little bitabout high school and some of
your teammates that some peoplemay still remember.
Those were, like you mentionedKevin McClure was one that you
(32:05):
mentioned, I think to me.
Speaker 2 (32:06):
Kevin was the son of Bill McClure, very accomplished
player.
Played at Purdue after Richmond.
Unfortunately, kevin just diedwithin the last year.
Unfortunately, kevin just diedwithin the last year.
Skip Alder was another playerwho was on our team, who was a
good player, randy Saylor, garyGriffin.
(32:28):
Some of the older guys ahead ofme were Rick Niersbach, mark
Hamner, bill Kelly and a lot ofthese names won't mean much to a
lot of people, but I stillremember them.
Speaker 1 (32:41):
There might be some old fellows listening to this
later.
Speaker 2 (32:44):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (32:52):
When you think about.
I mean, there's probablydifferent times where a certain
win or something was special,but is there a couple of wins
that kind of stick out in yourmind that you know is just kind
of special to you when you wonthem?
Speaker 2 (33:08):
Well, I think probably my first city golf
tournament, which was a long,long time ago, was an
accomplishment that I waswondering if I would ever be
able to do, and then I canrecall my first IGA win.
It was a team event, but stillI was able to secure one of
(33:33):
those plaques that I had seenaround and I wanted one of those
.
There's been a lot ofmeaningful ones, but probably
those two.
Speaker 1 (33:44):
What?
What do you do?
What have you done with allthese trophies and plaques and
medals and stuff?
Do you what?
Do you just just kind of put inboxes somewhere, or do you have
them kind of displayedsomewhere?
Speaker 2 (33:54):
I mean, well, a lot of them are in the attic in a
box.
Boxes, Uh, I have some in thebasement.
I have a few that are displayedat the house, but you know,
after a few years you know youdon't think about it much.
Speaker 1 (34:11):
I get it.
One thing about you you'vealways very humble about your
accomplishments.
You've got to play a lot ofgreat courses just in indiana,
but all over the country.
Um, what in indiana?
I mean we don't want to offendanybody, but what do you?
When you think of some of the Imean just a great golf course
(34:34):
in the state?
I mean, what are some of theones that come to mind to you
that stick out?
Speaker 2 (34:39):
when I was young, otter creek and columbus was
just a fantastic facility and itstill is.
But since that time crookedstick in indianapolis has been
added to the mix.
Sycamore hills and fort way,which is a necklace design, is
fabulous.
Crooked Stick was a Pete Dyedesign In the southern part of
(35:05):
the state.
There's a couple of them downthere Victoria National, which
is just outside Evansville,which is a Tom Fazio design,
then in French Lick, the new Dyecourse and also the the old
(35:26):
donald ross course.
Speaker 1 (35:26):
They're just fabulous venues, what would be kind of a
sneaky, really special coursein the state that people just
don't know about that would be atough question.
Speaker 2 (35:39):
Oh, there are a couple of them.
In Jasper, Indiana, there is apublic golf course called
Salton's Run and I'm sure a lotof people have never heard of it
, but it's a fabulous golfcourse, really a neat, neat
place.
Speaker 1 (35:56):
As far as in other parts of the state, up in Angola
, you and I have played GlenDern, which is in a small little
community, but it's a fabulous,fabulous golf course and that
was just built on a man'spassion to build a golf course.
Speaker 2 (36:11):
Yeah, and there are courses like that sprinkled all
throughout the state that arereally hidden little gems.
Speaker 1 (36:18):
Yeah, I mean the state of are really hidden
little gems.
Yeah, I mean, the state ofIndiana does have a pretty good
share of golf courses.
Speaker 2 (36:23):
We do yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (36:24):
Yeah, one interesting thing that you're involved in
that people don't know is theIndiana Golf Association, and
maybe I knew it, maybe I forgotabout it, but you're actually
the president of the IGA.
Speaker 2 (36:38):
I am.
Speaker 1 (36:40):
And when did you first get involved in the IGA?
Speaker 2 (36:41):
It's been several years I think it's been 30 plus
years that I've been involved,mostly as a district director,
but in the last several yearsgot involved into the, the
chairs, so to speak, the officerpositions, and currently I am,
for a two-year period, thepresident of the Indiana Golf
(37:04):
Association.
Speaker 1 (37:05):
So what is kind of the mission of the IGA overall?
Speaker 2 (37:10):
It's to promote golf in Indiana keep the traditions
of the game alive in Indiana.
There are a lot of differentumbrellas that come under the
IGA and probably the main focusright now is First Tee.
Indiana has chapters all overand it's all headquartered out
(37:32):
of the IGA office, and Richmond,right here, in fact, has one of
the flagships.
It was one of the first onesthat was started by Bo Van
Pelton and his father, bob, andthey have done a tremendous job
here.
There are thousands of kidsinvolved.
Speaker 1 (37:48):
Yeah, it seems like you know, like you drive by
there during the summer and itamazes me how many kids are out
there hitting balls and manydifferent volunteers to go out
there and help because it'sbasically all volunteer driven
Basically, so yes, yeah, yeah.
As president, what are some ofyour responsibilities?
I mean running meetings orattending meetings.
Speaker 2 (38:10):
It's not that it's a tremendous amount of time
consumption on my part, becausethe Indiana Golf Office does
have an executive director andthe employees all answer
directly to him.
But when procedural things comeup or just questions in general
on where we want to go withthings, there is a board that's
(38:33):
in place.
The IGA is also teamed with thePGA of Indiana, so both the IGA
and the PGA have an officergroup and when issues just come
up, we as a group we'll work onthat.
We have a handful of actualmeetings throughout the year
where we'll get together and goover agendas, where we stand on
(38:57):
our budgets and things such asthat, and so it's a little bit
of time involved, but most ofthe day-to-day stuff is still
all done right out of the officeover there.
Speaker 1 (39:11):
What do you see as maybe a couple of the biggest
challenges with just the game ofgolf in general today?
Speaker 2 (39:22):
Well, prior to the COVID years, golf was a little
bit on the downswing, not justin Indiana but all over.
But after that there's been arebirth and, quite honestly, the
game is quite strong now.
I think the biggest thing thatwe as a group are trying to work
(39:50):
on is the so-called just casualgolfer.
If you've ever been to a topgolf, you'll see a lot of
players or people there who'venever played golf before, but
the places are always constantlybusy.
It's almost like a bowlingalley.
You can go in and sit down, youcan order food, drink.
(40:11):
When it's your turn, you get upand play.
So that type of golfer we aretrying to focus on, to get
involved in some justnon-stressful tournaments,
sociable type events, and we'redoing pretty well with that.
Speaker 1 (40:30):
Yeah, I mean I always think of one of the challenges
with golf is it takes a longtime, it's hard and it's
expensive.
Those are the things that Ithink of when people talk about
kind of the downside to golf isthose things.
Speaker 2 (40:46):
And that's kind of where we were just a few years
ago.
But for whatever reason, after,after covid, no longer the
problem.
Speaker 1 (40:54):
So what I was part of my question was going to be
what are the challenges and whatare some of the things you're
excited about?
Speaker 2 (41:01):
and I think you kind of answered both of them a
little bit about one other thingthat we're doing is a as a
indiana golf association,slashGA, Our headquarters for
the last several years has beenin Franklin, Indiana, butted up
to the Legends Golf Course.
We've sold that property andjust recently broke ground for a
(41:24):
new location in Indianapoliswhich is more centrally located
and it's going to be located inLawrence, Indiana, at the Fort
Golf Course, which is on the oldFort Benjamin Harrison.
It's a great, great facility.
It was redone several years agoby Pete Dye and through the
state and the Department ofNatural Resources we've been
(41:49):
given some ground there andhopefully within the next year
or so there'll be a brand newfacility built there.
Speaker 1 (41:59):
What's the kind of do you know what?
The budget for that buildinghas been About six and a half
million.
Speaker 2 (42:04):
Yeah, and we're in the process right now of
fundraising and doing quite wellwith that, so I don't think
that's going to be a problem tohit that goal.
Speaker 1 (42:15):
During the time that, all these years that you've
been playing golf, you've had tohave met some unique people.
During those years, I meananybody.
Any few people stand out to you, people that you've met that
really you wouldn't have metbecause of the game.
Speaker 2 (42:38):
I know you've met a lot of people, but I have met a
lot of people fuzzy zeller fromindiana, bill kratzert, who
you'll see doing live broadcastsstill on tv from indiana.
But I've been able to sit downwith arnold Palmer.
I've actually sat down and hada 10 or 15-minute conversation
with Jack Nicklaus.
Lots of impressive people,business people, and I'm sure
(43:02):
I've been around several morethat I'm just not.
They're just not coming to mindright now, but yeah, it's been
fun.
Speaker 1 (43:11):
So I remember a little bit about the story about
you getting to getting to speakto jack nicholas, and I think
it was probably a handful ofyears ago now, was it like some,
somewhat correct on that youare and uh.
So I mean he's definitely, uh,jack is up there in age, but how
was he pretty engaging guy atthat time when you sat and
(43:31):
talked to him that day, I mean.
Speaker 2 (43:34):
Jack was probably 80 years old at the time.
Okay, and in all reality I was anervous wreck, but I had had a
story given to me by someonehere locally that had the chance
to be with him years and yearsago and they had asked me if I
got a chance to sit down andrelate this story to him and
(44:01):
when you think of the amount ofpeople he's met that he sees on
a daily basis, uh, he took thetime to sit and listen, and I
don't know if this is the truthor not, but he acted as if he
remembered, and it wasimpressive for me to sit there
(44:23):
and listen to him respond backin a way that made me think he
really did.
Speaker 1 (44:27):
Yeah, growing up, I mean you played golf a lot, just
from being a kid.
Do you remember followingprofessional golf much at all?
Or was it you're just moreconcerned, just going out there
and playing with your friends?
Speaker 2 (44:40):
I did.
My father took me to play notto play but to watch a few of
the PGA events.
But back in those days you knowlive broadcasts on TV events.
But back in those days you knowlive broadcasts on tv.
That just wasn't a part of yourday-to-day living.
And when it did first come out,I think, if I recall, maybe
(45:01):
only the last three holes of anevent were actually televised,
so it's not like you could keyin on the leaders all the way
through their round.
You just had to watch who wason 18, 17 and 16, which very
well might not have been yourleaders, but that was pretty
much of the broadcast back inthose days.
Speaker 1 (45:22):
So I didn't know if there was like certain
professional golfers that werethat you kind of just were the
guys that you like the most.
You know, everybody's gotathletes.
If if you're a bat, if you playbasketball, there's probably a
basketball player that you kindof just were the guys that you
liked the most.
You know everybody's gotathletes.
If you play basketball, there'sprobably a basketball player
that you like.
Speaker 2 (45:38):
So I didn't know if there was golfers back then.
I was a big fan of Ben Hogan,not because of his personality,
because he didn't have much ofone, but he was a tremendous
player.
And Arnold Palmer, who I justthought was phenomenal, still do
, and he had the charisma and hereally is the one who was able
(45:58):
to springboard golf into whatit's become today.
Right.
Speaker 1 (46:04):
And then I guess you could maybe say Tiger Woods
transformed it in a major wayafter that.
Speaker 2 (46:12):
I think so.
Speaker 1 (46:13):
Yeah, I mean I'm going to be 60 this year, but
you know, when I think I meantimes that I was really into
golf, because I didn't reallystart playing golf much until I
was in my 20s.
And you know, tiger Woods comeson the scene and there's just
(46:35):
nobody like him.
I love Jack Nicklaus and I lovewatching some of the old stuff.
When he won the Masters thelast time, it seems like every
year or so I'll go back and tryto bring up the footage and
watch that again because it wasjust wonderful.
I wish that would have beenrecorded into today's technology
because it would have beenreally, but it was still amazing
(46:58):
to watch him win thattournament, you know it's.
Speaker 2 (47:02):
It's hard to compare generations, but, uh, there's no
question in my mind that tigerhas played the best golf that's
ever been played by anyone.
Now, was he as dominant asmaybe someone else was?
Probably, and maybe even moreso, but there's always been your
dominant players in each of thegenerations.
It just seems because of whenhe came along and after Arnold,
(47:25):
he was able to transcend it,even to a new level, and I don't
see anyone out there yet that'sable to move the needle quite
like he did.
Speaker 1 (47:32):
And what's so scary about him is I think he probably
could have won way more than hedid.
I do too but physicallypersonal and physical challenges
, you know kind of, you know Ithink gotten away at that.
Speaker 2 (47:44):
They did for him.
Speaker 1 (47:46):
Um, I mean every lots of kids.
There's kids today that areplaying basketball, who are
seven, eight, nine years old,who their dream has become go to
the NBA.
It is so.
Was there ever a point when youwere playing like you said oh,
(48:09):
it'd be really cool if I couldgo be a professional golfer.
Did it ever?
When did that kind of enteryour mind?
I mean, you've had a greatcareer and I've seen you play
some incredibly good golf.
You're probably the first tosay there's a lot of guys like
me, you know, but did thosethoughts ever come in your mind?
Speaker 2 (48:35):
Well, they did.
When I was in college I thoughtabout it, but back in those
days everything was top heavy.
Only the guys who won or whowere in the top ten really made
a living.
Who won or who in the top 10really made a living.
So the financial rewards werenothing like today, where just
(48:58):
if you make it on tour, you knowmillions of dollars are going
to pour your way.
And also through competition.
In college I got to play withsome of these guys who actually
did become very, very goodplayers on the pga tour, and
they were better than I was, andwhen I used to tell you I was
one of 10 000, it's a truestatement and your chances of
(49:23):
being that one in 10 000.
To get there, you know,everything just has to fall in
place, lightning has to strikeat the right time and your odds
just aren't good.
So if you do make that decisionto try to move into the
professional ranks and you don'tdo well or well enough, you've
lost maybe five to ten yearsworth of running power, and that
(49:48):
was the decision why I decidednot to.
And that was the decision why Idecided not to.
Speaker 1 (49:51):
Did you ever try to qualify for, like the US Open or
the I don't know the US Amateur?
Did you ever try to qualify forsome of those tournaments?
Speaker 2 (50:02):
Nothing US Open-wise US Amateur only one time because
I was working.
It was just tough for me to beable to justify doing that.
But I did qualify for severalUnited States mid-amateurs and I
qualified for several UnitedStates senior amateurs and some
USGA team events.
(50:23):
So I think I played in about 10USGA events over my career and
that's a step above level-wise.
Speaker 1 (50:33):
I don't know what it would have been.
You still play a great game,but I would think when you
consider your prime, I'm notsure what it would have been
like to try to qualify for a USOpen, or what the process would
have been then versus what it iseven today.
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (50:50):
It was more difficult almost then in terms of the
amount of steps you had to taketo get to a US Open, but as far
as the level of skill that youhave to have today, it's even
greater.
It's tough to do.
Plus, you know, when you'retalking about a US Open your
professionals are playing thanthat as well, so I just never
(51:16):
did give that a shot.
Speaker 1 (51:20):
Any, as we're wrapping up, any interesting
stories about golf that youthink that our followers would
like to hear about.
Speaker 2 (51:29):
Maybe some of our stories.
I don't know about those.
Speaker 1 (51:33):
I think those are better left between us?
Speaker 2 (51:36):
Then probably not.
Speaker 1 (51:38):
Okay, well, I've really enjoyed talking to you
about this and enjoyed the timesthat we've played golf and just
what you've done for the gameof golf and what you're doing
with the IGA, and it's just beena real pleasure to get to talk
(52:02):
to you.
I appreciate you doing thiswith me today and I guess,
without anything else, we'lljust wrap it up, okay sounds
great.
Speaker 2 (52:10):
Thank you so much.
I really appreciate it verymuch have fun Michael Allen from
Manpower.
Speaker 1 (52:17):
We are a national brand, yet locally owned
franchise.
We are familiar with thechallenges businesses face.
It's tough recruiting andretaining qualified employees.
That's why working withManpower is a smart,
cost-effective solution.
Our entire focus is talentacquisition.
We'll manage your hiring andtraining and provide ongoing,
customized support.
Since 1966, we have been yourcommunity-invested partner,
(52:39):
uniquely positioned to helpeliminate the hassles and save
you time and money.
Let us help.
Contact Manpower today.
Michael Allen from Manpower.
We are a national brand, yetlocally owned franchise.
We are familiar with thechallenges businesses face.
It's tough recruiting andretaining qualified employees.
That's why working withManpower is a smart,
cost-effective solution.
Our entire focus is talentacquisition.
We'll manage your hiring andtraining and provide ongoing,
customized support.
Since 1966, we have been yourcommunity-invested partner,
(00:24):
uniquely positioned to helpeliminate the hassles and save
you time and money.
Let us help contact Manpowertoday.
Hello and welcome to the Hubpowered by Manpower of Richmond,
portland and Newcastle.
I'm your host, michael Allen,and here on the Hub, we
interview local businesses,community partners and various
special guests, and our missionis just to share a spotlight,
(00:46):
unique and untold stories ofcompanies and organizations and
people who are making adifference in our community and
today.
If you've lived in thiscommunity any length of time,
you've probably heard the nameof today's guest, especially if
you play golf or know anythingabout golf.
Our guest today is skip runnels, and he's arguably one of
(01:10):
russman's most accomplishedamateur athletes.
Uh, he's a 2015 inductee intothe indiana golf hall of fame
and winner of many amateurtournaments around the state of
indiana, as well as tournamentsin the continental US.
Skip, welcome to the Hub.
Hi Mike, how are you Good?
Good, so happy to have you heretoday.
(01:31):
I've known you for many years,probably intimately for about 30
.
I've had the pleasure ofplaying several rounds of golf
with you.
My guess is probably easilyover 100 times.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
I would guess so would.
Speaker 1 (01:45):
Yes, I would think and I know for sure we've played
together in indiana, michiganohio, north carolina and florida
so I know that's correct playedin five states together and, uh
, we've got so much that we cantalk about, uh.
But before we get to that, uh,I want to start with our
(02:05):
tradition here at the Hub, andthat's where we ask every guest
what their very first job was.
So do you remember what thatwas?
Speaker 2 (02:16):
I think, Mike, when I was a little kid, my
grandfather owned a businesshere in town and on the weekends
I would clean his office Emptytrash cans, sweep and things
like that so I think I probablymade about a dime an episode,
and I think that was my firstone, Do you?
Speaker 1 (02:37):
remember the job that you had where you had to, where
actually they cut you a checkand had to have taxes cut out of
it?
Do you remember?
Speaker 2 (02:47):
probably.
Uh, I worked at the elkscountry club when they had made
the switch from the old elks outon elks country club road to
its new location and I workedthere with some of my friends
who were in high school and thatwas probably my first actual
where I punched a clock and gota check.
Speaker 1 (03:08):
So were you like what they used to call the back boys
, or did you go out helping onthe golf course?
Speaker 2 (03:13):
I worked out on the golf course.
Okay, yeah, all right, mowedgreens and things like that.
Speaker 1 (03:17):
So that would have been I don't know in the 60s
early 70s, probably 66, 67.
Speaker 2 (03:24):
Yeah, in the 60s early 70s, probably 66, 67.
Speaker 1 (03:26):
yeah, the course was pretty, pretty immature at that
point.
Fairly new, yes yeah so youknow, you and I just recently
played in um a tournament outthere a few weeks ago, and it's
probably amazing to look at itlike today and then have recall
of what it was like when it wasnew.
Speaker 2 (03:46):
It's come a long, long way.
It's a great club.
It's strong and doing well, andI don't know if my little bit
out there helped at all or not,but that was my first job.
Speaker 1 (03:55):
Oh, that's awesome.
That's awesome.
You've been well-known in thecommunity most of your life.
Arguably, golf is probably amajor reason how people have met
you, maybe heard of you.
But part of what I want tofocus on is you know some of the
personal stuff, so you know.
I guess to begin with, maybeshare with our followers a
(04:18):
little bit about yourself, likegrowing up, your family, those
kind of things.
Speaker 2 (04:28):
Well, I was born here in Richmond and have always
been a native of the area.
My family grew up on SpringGrove Heights, which was up by
the old hospital.
I had four sisters and it was agreat place to grow up.
Lots of other kids played a lotoutside, not in front of a TV
or a computer, and a lot of fondmemories.
Speaker 1 (04:49):
So your parents, Carl and Mary Lou, right?
And so tell me a little bitjust about each of your parents,
kind of about them, and maybesomething that might be unique
about each of them well.
Speaker 2 (05:04):
My father grew up in richmond as well and was an
accomplished athlete andreceived a scholarship to play
basketball at indiana stateuniversity, but world war ii
interrupted that.
My mother grew up over in theTerre Haute area where Indiana
(05:24):
State was located, and after thewar he came back to finish
school and that's where he metmy mother and they got married.
But then the Korean Warintercepted again.
But after that they did moveback to Richmond together and my
(05:45):
dad went to work for his fatherat Reynolds Builders Products.
Speaker 1 (05:51):
Together.
I mean, how long was yourfather in the military?
Speaker 2 (05:57):
Probably six, seven years.
Speaker 1 (06:01):
And did he ever talk much about that or discuss what
his responsibilities were, orwhatever?
Speaker 2 (06:07):
He did not talk a lot about it.
He was a naval fighter pilot inWorld War II.
After the war remained in thereserves but through an
acquaintance in the Navy he hadthe opportunity to switch forces
in the navy.
He had the opportunity toswitch forces so he ended his
commission with the navy andenlisted with the united states
(06:36):
air force as a fighter pilot andwas given the position as the
operations officer for theflorida air national guard and
during that job their squadronwas called up for active duty in
Korea.
Speaker 1 (06:49):
I mean that's to become I would think to become
have that position as a fighterpilot.
I mean, not everybody does that.
I mean you have to have acertain amount of skill level
and just, I guess, certaincharacteristics as a person to
(07:09):
be able to even do that I thinkthey are a special breed.
I'm not sure why his ambitionsled him that direction, but he
loved to fly but rarely talkedabout any of his uh, actual
combat right I don't thinkthat's totally uncommon about,
um, men and women who have beenin those situations that you
(07:32):
know, because they can be verychallenging and tough situations
and some things are just kindof better left back in the
memory banks, right, um, uh, notthat it's a bad thing to talk
those things through, but it'sprobably not uncommon for a lot
of those folks to be in thatposition.
Uh, did he continue to flyafter that?
Speaker 2 (07:54):
not really keep a license.
He.
He kept his license for a while, um, but I think some of the
situations he incurred justmaybe was an underlying decision
not to be involved anymore.
Speaker 1 (08:11):
So how about a little bit about Mary Lou?
Speaker 2 (08:14):
She grew up.
She was born in Illinois butgrew up in a very small town
south of Terre Haute calledFarmersburg.
South of Terre Haute calledFarmersburg.
She was a great student andreceived a full ride to Indiana
University for academics, butback in that day I guess it
wasn't really all that importantand she decided to go to work
(08:39):
instead and actually was asecretary to Tony Hallman at the
Hallman Companies and Tony, ifyou'll recall, was the owner of
the Indianapolis 500.
Speaker 1 (08:50):
Yeah, that's interesting that connection.
So your parents met in TerreHaute never met.
So did your mother, you know,had a, I consider, a fairly
large family.
Five kids is a handful.
I would think so did your mom.
(09:12):
Was your mom mainly at you knowshe work at home with you and
your sisters, or was that, ordid she she?
Speaker 2 (09:19):
was a stay at home mom and it was a full time
position.
Speaker 1 (09:23):
Yeah, I'm sure I mean just caring after you, yeah, so
where do you fall in the birthorder with you and your sisters?
Was a stay-at-home mom and itwas a full-time position.
Yeah, I'm sure I mean justcarrying after you, yeah, so
where do you fall in the birthorder with you and your sisters?
Speaker 2 (09:29):
well, I'm number two, okay.
My oldest sister, debbie, isdeceased, uh, but I do have
three, uh siblings still in thearea.
Um, my next in line would be mysister Leslie, and then Tammy
and then Barbara, okay.
Speaker 1 (09:49):
So what was it like having four sisters?
Speaker 2 (09:52):
I mean it, I mean being the only son, and Well, of
course I thought it washorrible, but as I got a little
bit older I realized how uh uhlucky I had been, and I was
probably spoiled and just didn'trealize it at the time.
Speaker 1 (10:08):
Probably been worse if you were number five.
Probably being the secondoldest, that probably helped.
So you mentioned Spring GroveHeights.
I have some memories of thattoo, because my grandparents
lived up there.
Speaker 2 (10:22):
I know that.
Speaker 1 (10:23):
And I just always loved going up there.
Speaker 2 (10:26):
It's just such a special, unique neighborhood it
was really cool, um, I rememberyour grandmother and grandfather
.
I remember your mother, uh, butthere were a lot of kids to
play with.
We had a great woods or aforest that kind of encapsulated
one of the sides of theneighborhood.
(10:47):
We had a river, which weweren't supposed to play at, but
of course we always did.
It was great adventures downthere and, as far as a kid who
aspired eventually to play golf,it was an incredible
neighborhood because at the time, uh, bill mcclure, leo brook,
(11:09):
scott porter, were all living upthere at the same time.
I was, and they were all cityamateur winners and at the top
of the game in richmond.
So what a place for me to learnhow to play, along with my
father, who was a veryaccomplished player as well.
Speaker 1 (11:26):
And it was kind of an interesting.
There was a little bit of a gapin the age of all you guys too,
Wasn't there?
Speaker 2 (11:34):
Well, leo and Bill were, would have been like my
father's age where Scott Porter,who just recently passed away
In fact I'm the only one left ofthat foursome.
He was seven years older than Iwas.
Did you play golf with thoseguys at all?
Speaker 1 (11:51):
like Leo, I did.
Speaker 2 (11:53):
And you know, back in those days, kids learned how to
play by caddying, and I wasable to caddy for all of them,
including Scott, and that's howyou learn to play by watching
what they did.
And then, after your round as acaddy, you'd go out and try to
imitate or emulate what you hadjust watched.
Speaker 1 (12:11):
yeah, it's interesting, you know, because,
like scott was several yearsolder than you and it seemed
probably when you're youngerthat seemed like a huge gap, but
then later, when you guys gotolder, it's funny how the gaps
almost become non-existent rightnow.
So, uh, but yeah, that's, thatis really cool.
I wasn't there also up there aplace where and I kind of
(12:35):
picture my mind it's like theback side of spring grove where
there was a railroad tracks andthere was almost an elevated it
was was off the ground and youcould walk on it and it was a
little scary yeah.
I remember doing it as a kid andyou know I'm sorry, mom and Dad
, if you're, you know, but Ilived.
But it's just I rememberwalking on that and it probably
(12:56):
is not very high today for youto go back there, but it seemed
kind of scary to walk on thistrack.
Speaker 2 (13:00):
It was very scary and , like you, I wasn't supposed to
be there, but of course we were.
Speaker 1 (13:12):
in fact, today that trestle is still there but it's
part of the cardinal greenwaynow okay, so it's quite safe,
but it's still pretty high.
Yeah, I've never been on thegreenway much and never through
that part, to kind of recallwhat that used to be yeah, yeah.
So, anyway, that's such a greatum, a great area.
So I guess, moving on to school, um, in the Richmond school
(13:32):
system, I mean back when youwere in school, what were kind
of, what were the schools thatyou ended up going to?
Speaker 2 (13:37):
Well, a lot of your people won't remember this, but
I started off at Baxter inkindergarten and then from there
I went to highland school,which is no longer there.
There is a portion of it, thenewer portion, which is still
standing.
It's behind frickers.
But the actual schoolhouse Iwent to uh is where frickers is
(14:02):
currently located.
From there to pleasant view,which is no longer in existence.
The building is still out thereand then from there Richmond
High School.
Speaker 1 (14:13):
I remember especially Highland and also Pleasant View
, and those are probably I meanwhen I hear people speak of
going especially to Pleasant.
View maybe fond memories ofgoing.
It's kind of out in the country.
Speaker 2 (14:29):
It was.
Speaker 1 (14:30):
It was a nice little school to go to.
Speaker 2 (14:33):
It was a great school to go to.
Speaker 1 (14:34):
yeah, after high school you ended up going to
ball state right I did.
Speaker 2 (14:47):
I had somewhat of a pretty good career playing golf
in high school and because ofthat I was being recruited by
some of the division one schoolsin the tri-state area.
I guess maybe even a littlefurther, but it boiled down.
My choice boiled down to eithereastern Kentucky, which was in
(15:09):
Richmond Kentucky, or Ball State, and at that particular time my
girlfriend, who is now my wife,had decided to go to Ball State
.
So that was somewhat of thereason why I went that direction
what?
Speaker 1 (15:26):
what was?
I wonder what recruiting waslike back in the 70s, when you
went, when you were beingrecruited, how that compares to
like today.
Well, maybe it's the same Idon't know.
Speaker 2 (15:36):
It's completely different.
Uh, there are so many moreopportunities for kids to play
in events, which then allowscollege coaches to be able to
track them as they're playing inhigh school, whereas when I was
a kid, there might have beenonly one tournament a year that
you played in, so you had toactually put together a
(15:57):
presentation for yourself.
Letters of recommendation youracademics what you've
accomplished playing golf,things such as that and compile
this presentation and send thoseout to college coaches and if
there were any interest thenfrom what they got they would
(16:20):
contact you normally yourparents, not you and make
arrangements to have some sortof visit.
Speaker 1 (16:27):
And so ended up at Ball State, Enjoyed that
experience.
It was a great experience.
Speaker 2 (16:35):
I got to play there for four years.
We were the first team athleticteam at Ball State to win a
MAAC title, and that was duringmy senior year.
We played at Kent State, so thememories were very good yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:54):
Probably go back to that, maybe a little bit, but I
did want to come back aboutfamily again because I mean
you're associated tremendouslywith golf and a lot of
accomplishments which anytimeI've ever been around you you're
very humble about.
But you did pretty good in thewife and the kids department.
Speaker 2 (17:18):
Oh, I hit an A-plus there.
My wife, like I had mentionedearlier, was from the area.
She was a Westside girl, so Ihad not met her until I got to
high school.
But we met during our junioryear in an English class and
began to date and 50-some yearslater we're still together.
(17:39):
We've been married for 46.
So did very, very well thereand we currently have three
children who are also doing well.
My oldest, casey, uh, graduatedfrom indiana university, which
they all did, but after that shegot her doctorate in iowa.
(18:01):
Uh, to be a chiropractor.
She's a local chiropractor herein town and doing well.
My next daughter, age-wiseJessica, lives in the community
as well.
She is an administrator down atChubb Insurance, which used to
be ACE, which used to be INA.
(18:23):
She has a team of people thatshe's responsible for and she
and her husband live here intown doing well.
And then my son, who is also agraduate of Bloomington, the
Kelly School of Business, whichis a renowned school, was
recruited right from there by aformer graduate of the Kelly
(18:46):
School who was running Whirlpool, and he was recruited right out
of school to go there, thenmade a switch to Delta, delta
Faucets and now has made anothercareer switch and is building
his own business as a financialwealth builder.
Consultant.
Speaker 1 (19:06):
And each of your kids have two kids.
That gives you sixgrandchildren, right.
Speaker 2 (19:12):
Six grandchildren, the oldest being four years old
and two of them just turned four.
So there are a handful, and twoof them live right behind us.
Jessica and her husband live 75yards from our house, so we get
to see them a lot.
Casey's kids are five minutesaway, so we get to see them as
(19:33):
well.
Now Carl, who lives inIndianapolis not quite as often,
but we do a lot of FaceTimingand probably see him at least a
couple times a month.
Speaker 1 (19:42):
So what do they call you?
And Terry, it used to beGrandma and Grandpa, but then
somewhere it changed and nowthere's like 20 different names
to call.
Speaker 2 (19:51):
I know I'm Papa and my wife, whose name is Terry.
They just call her T, Okay,yeah, my kids call me Papa and I
like it.
I like it.
Okay, my grandkids do they havemy kids call me.
Speaker 1 (20:04):
Papa and I like it.
I like it.
Okay, my kids do Uh.
So, moving on to like yourbusiness career uh, you
mentioned uh at family businessand we had spoke, spoken before
and you mentioned that initiallyyou came back and you were
involved in runnels, buildingproducts, and you did that.
(20:25):
For how long did you do that?
Speaker 2 (20:27):
I did that for a number of years and I know you
recall the timing of this, butthere was a recession during the
early to mid 80s and there werefive families living out of
Reynolds Builders Products andit was just determined by my
father and by my cousin's father, who was also working there,
(20:50):
that it might be best for us totry to find different employment
, just from an economicstandpoint, because the business
just wasn't there at the timeto take care of so many people.
And from there then I secured aposition out at the Wayne
Corporation, the busmanufacturer, and worked there
(21:12):
for a number of years andunfortunately that business is
no longer around as well andthen got involved in real estate
business with First RichmondRealtors here in town and then
also purchased a couple of localcoin-operated laundries that my
(21:33):
wife and I operated for alittle over 20-some years.
Speaker 1 (21:38):
I remember those for sure, the you know.
Going back to Ronald's buildingproducts, I mean, when a
recession hits, I mean that'sone of the first things that you
think that's going to stop.
Is people stop new constructionor it becomes more challenging,
and I'm sure that had a reallynegative impact.
Speaker 2 (21:57):
It did.
The type of constructionmaterials that we provided were
not for residential use, it wasindustrial and commercial use
and that type of building justdried up and there wasn't much
of it around of it around.
Speaker 1 (22:24):
So I mean this um wayne corporation.
I mean that was a fairlysuccessful business for many
years and I think they more lostout just to competition.
Speaker 2 (22:28):
Well they perhaps.
Speaker 1 (22:29):
I don't know for sure , because you know there's still
people going to school andpeople got to get on school
buses.
Speaker 2 (22:34):
Well, they did lose out to competition and they,
they also began to falter whenthey kept changing hands.
A new entity would buy andinstead of worrying about
long-term, they were I'm notgoing to say greed, but they
wanted to pull as much out asquickly as they possibly could,
which in a large effect, hurtthe company, which, in a large
(22:59):
effect, hurt the company.
And then the other problem wasthat school buses were built
under such stringent guidelinesthat they would have about a
15-year life cycle, so it's notlike Richmond High School is
going to be buying buses everyyear.
Once you sell one, you may nothave another shot for another 15
years.
Speaker 1 (23:19):
Did you ever do one of those road trips where you
delivered buses?
Speaker 2 (23:22):
Oh, I did several of those during college, I'm sure
lots of people did.
Speaker 1 (23:25):
those Just explain what that was like to people
watching or listening.
Speaker 2 (23:32):
Well, there might be a group of, let's say, six of us
who would take off.
We'd all have our own schoolbus that we were going to
deliver and one of the busesnormally the bus in the rear
would have a tow vehicle thatwas hitched on to the back of a
school bus and it was normally a.
(23:52):
A big van wasn't necessarilythe cleanest van by any means,
but after you made your deliveryyou'd all pile into this van
and come home, hit on back.
It was a miserable time, butyou know you had to do it in
those times just to come up withsome money yeah, I mean, would
they take those as far as, like,the west coast and east?
(24:15):
coast and even as far as alaska.
Now I did not make thatparticular trip, but yeah I yeah
, I've gone to the West Coastbefore.
Speaker 1 (24:22):
Yeah, I'm sure that was.
I mean, whenever I think ofdriving a bus it seems kind of
intimidating because they're sobig.
They are big and maybe drivingfor an hour or two, but just to
drive something like thatclearly across the country.
Speaker 2 (24:37):
Well, you know, on the open roads not so bad, but
when you get into metropolitanareas where you might have six
lanes of traffic, it was prettystressful yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:55):
So you retired in 2018.
So you retired in 2018 and uh.
But I want to go through umback up a few years before you
retired, in 2015,.
Uh, when you were inducted intothe uh, indiana, indiana golf
hall of fame.
So I'm going to painstakinglyhere, go through this.
(25:15):
What they wrote.
So in 2015,.
Uh, ij wrote this about youwhen you were inducted.
So it says when you think ofamateur golf in indiana, skip
runnels is a name that comes tomind.
Runnels was a three-timeletterman winner at richmond
high school.
The 1975 ball stateinvitational champion.
(25:36):
92 and 93 IGA Match PlayChampion.
Usga Team Championship Member.
95, 2000,.
First Indiana Golf Hall of FameInductee.
2002 IGA Mid-Am Champion.
2008 IGA Senior Amateur Champ.
Winner of seven IGA and IGASenior Championships.
(25:58):
A winner of 20 plus and IGAsenior championships.
A winner of 20-plus this iskilling you, I know hearing this
because you're so humble20-plus team championships.
A winner of 15 clubchampionships and the 2013 IGA
senior player of the year andback then, about nine years ago,
62, reynolds continues tofinish towards the top of the
(26:21):
leaderboard in most IGA seniorevents and his sportsmanship on
and off the course does not gounnoticed.
So this doesn't even mention, Ibelieve, 18 city championships
that you won.
So I mean, when you go over allthat, I mean you've had just a
wonderful time playing golf andvery successful career and
(26:45):
competition and and when, andthere's even went on to do other
tournaments in the nine yearsafter this.
Uh, it's just uh.
I mean what?
What kind of memories does itdraw for you?
I mean, I'm sure, a sense ofaccomplishment, but just the
enjoyment, or the people you'vemet, the different courses
(27:06):
you've got to play all thosethings.
Speaker 2 (27:09):
Well, you have to realize I've lost a whole lot
more than I've won.
So when you do have theopportunity to win, it's great
and those memories are great aswell.
When you do have theopportunity to win, it's great
and those memories are great aswell.
But it's unbelievable theamount of people that you meet
and how many of those peoplebecome friends and remain
friends.
Guys that I haven't played withfor years.
(27:32):
I still talk with them, eitherthrough text messages or an
occasional call.
Some of the golf courses, thevenues, have been just out of
sight, just fantastic and uh,without somewhat of my playing
resume I wouldn't have beenallowed to even play a lot of
these places or a lot of theseevents.
So the whole package has justbeen really, you know, a
(27:55):
wonderful thing for me uh, theuh that's.
Speaker 1 (28:02):
Isn't that one of the great things about golf?
Those that some of thebyproducts of it, the game is.
I mean, you love the game,obviously, uh, I love it.
Uh, not that kind of level likeyou were, but that's what's
great about the game of golfAnybody, any level, can play it,
because of the handicap systemand you've got to spend some
(28:24):
time together with people whenyou play golf.
It takes a while.
Speaker 2 (28:28):
It does yeah.
Speaker 1 (28:30):
At least four hours typically, and depending on who
you're playing with, it might begoing to five.
But yeah, I mean, don't youthink that's a unique thing
about the game?
Is relationships that come outof it, because of the nature of
the game it really is, uh.
Speaker 2 (28:48):
And if you remember back some of your terrific
athletes, uh, in other sportswhen you were growing up, if
they didn't have a offshoot likegolf when they got older, I
mean, what were they going to do?
So golf fills that equationperfectly.
It's not that it's a strenuoussport, but if you want to get
(29:09):
better at it, you do have tospend some time and uh.
But, like you said, the greatbyproduct is all the other
things that come along with ituh, gonna go back in time a
little bit.
Speaker 1 (29:22):
Uh, regarding golf is like I'm sure people would love
to know, like, like, when didyou first start playing?
I mean, how old were you?
Speaker 2 (29:29):
I don't actually have a actual date.
Uh, my father was anaccomplished player and I would
guess that he probably put agolf club in my hand when I was
five, six, seven years old.
Uh, I began to play, I think,when I was probably around 10 or
11, where my mother might dropme off at the golf course and
(29:51):
typically I'd stay there all daylong and play.
Speaker 1 (29:54):
So I've been at it for, you know, over 60 years and
that would have been likeoriginally at the old elks,
which is, I guess, consideredeast side of town it is.
Speaker 2 (30:04):
Uh, if you're familiar with where walgreens
and the arboretum is and allwhat's going on out there, there
was a nine hole golf course outthere which the elks had was
originally the old RichmondCountry Club, slash Forest Hills
, but that's where I played.
It was a neat place and theyallowed juniors to be involved
(30:30):
and again, I had several friendsout there who were playing as
well, so we just really tookadvantage of it so that course
would have been there.
Speaker 1 (30:40):
Would Highland have been a course?
Yet no, and now Forest Hillswould have been around.
Speaker 2 (30:45):
Forest Hills was there.
Speaker 1 (30:47):
But that course, I mean, was it pretty busy.
I mean it's just a nine-holecourse.
I mean it seemed like it couldbe potentially tough to even get
on course.
Speaker 2 (31:01):
I mean it seemed like it could be potentially tough
to even get on.
I mean, well, as a kid you knowyou're out there generally when
most of the older people areworking.
So it wasn't difficult for us,but it was very crowded.
In fact that was one of thedecisions why a new location,
they felt like it was needed,and to expand to 18 holes, and
you also had the glenn millercourse, which again was just
(31:22):
nothing more than nine holes.
So there was a lot of activitygoing on, golf wise back in
those days uh, then the new alksyou know out on the south side
of town 18.
Speaker 1 (31:39):
I mean you were there , I mean you can remember when
it opened.
Speaker 2 (31:43):
Yes, I did.
Speaker 1 (31:44):
Would have been in late 64, I think when that
facility opened.
And so we talked a little bitabout high school and some of
your teammates that some peoplemay still remember.
Those were, like you mentionedKevin McClure was one that you
(32:05):
mentioned, I think to me.
Speaker 2 (32:06):
Kevin was the son of Bill McClure, very accomplished
player.
Played at Purdue after Richmond.
Unfortunately, kevin just diedwithin the last year.
Unfortunately, kevin just diedwithin the last year.
Skip Alder was another playerwho was on our team, who was a
good player, randy Saylor, garyGriffin.
(32:28):
Some of the older guys ahead ofme were Rick Niersbach, mark
Hamner, bill Kelly and a lot ofthese names won't mean much to a
lot of people, but I stillremember them.
Speaker 1 (32:41):
There might be some old fellows listening to this
later.
Speaker 2 (32:44):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (32:52):
When you think about.
I mean, there's probablydifferent times where a certain
win or something was special,but is there a couple of wins
that kind of stick out in yourmind that you know is just kind
of special to you when you wonthem?
Speaker 2 (33:08):
Well, I think probably my first city golf
tournament, which was a long,long time ago, was an
accomplishment that I waswondering if I would ever be
able to do, and then I canrecall my first IGA win.
It was a team event, but stillI was able to secure one of
(33:33):
those plaques that I had seenaround and I wanted one of those
.
There's been a lot ofmeaningful ones, but probably
those two.
Speaker 1 (33:44):
What?
What do you do?
What have you done with allthese trophies and plaques and
medals and stuff?
Do you what?
Do you just just kind of put inboxes somewhere, or do you have
them kind of displayedsomewhere?
Speaker 2 (33:54):
I mean, well, a lot of them are in the attic in a
box.
Boxes, Uh, I have some in thebasement.
I have a few that are displayedat the house, but you know,
after a few years you know youdon't think about it much.
Speaker 1 (34:11):
I get it.
One thing about you you'vealways very humble about your
accomplishments.
You've got to play a lot ofgreat courses just in indiana,
but all over the country.
Um, what in indiana?
I mean we don't want to offendanybody, but what do you?
When you think of some of the Imean just a great golf course
(34:34):
in the state?
I mean, what are some of theones that come to mind to you
that stick out?
Speaker 2 (34:39):
when I was young, otter creek and columbus was
just a fantastic facility and itstill is.
But since that time crookedstick in indianapolis has been
added to the mix.
Sycamore hills and fort way,which is a necklace design, is
fabulous.
Crooked Stick was a Pete Dyedesign In the southern part of
(35:05):
the state.
There's a couple of them downthere Victoria National, which
is just outside Evansville,which is a Tom Fazio design,
then in French Lick, the new Dyecourse and also the the old
(35:26):
donald ross course.
Speaker 1 (35:26):
They're just fabulous venues, what would be kind of a
sneaky, really special coursein the state that people just
don't know about that would be atough question.
Speaker 2 (35:39):
Oh, there are a couple of them.
In Jasper, Indiana, there is apublic golf course called
Salton's Run and I'm sure a lotof people have never heard of it
, but it's a fabulous golfcourse, really a neat, neat
place.
Speaker 1 (35:56):
As far as in other parts of the state, up in Angola
, you and I have played GlenDern, which is in a small little
community, but it's a fabulous,fabulous golf course and that
was just built on a man'spassion to build a golf course.
Speaker 2 (36:11):
Yeah, and there are courses like that sprinkled all
throughout the state that arereally hidden little gems.
Speaker 1 (36:18):
Yeah, I mean the state of are really hidden
little gems.
Yeah, I mean, the state ofIndiana does have a pretty good
share of golf courses.
Speaker 2 (36:23):
We do yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (36:24):
Yeah, one interesting thing that you're involved in
that people don't know is theIndiana Golf Association, and
maybe I knew it, maybe I forgotabout it, but you're actually
the president of the IGA.
Speaker 2 (36:38):
I am.
Speaker 1 (36:40):
And when did you first get involved in the IGA?
Speaker 2 (36:41):
It's been several years I think it's been 30 plus
years that I've been involved,mostly as a district director,
but in the last several yearsgot involved into the, the
chairs, so to speak, the officerpositions, and currently I am,
for a two-year period, thepresident of the Indiana Golf
(37:04):
Association.
Speaker 1 (37:05):
So what is kind of the mission of the IGA overall?
Speaker 2 (37:10):
It's to promote golf in Indiana keep the traditions
of the game alive in Indiana.
There are a lot of differentumbrellas that come under the
IGA and probably the main focusright now is First Tee.
Indiana has chapters all overand it's all headquartered out
(37:32):
of the IGA office, and Richmond,right here, in fact, has one of
the flagships.
It was one of the first onesthat was started by Bo Van
Pelton and his father, bob, andthey have done a tremendous job
here.
There are thousands of kidsinvolved.
Speaker 1 (37:48):
Yeah, it seems like you know, like you drive by
there during the summer and itamazes me how many kids are out
there hitting balls and manydifferent volunteers to go out
there and help because it'sbasically all volunteer driven
Basically, so yes, yeah, yeah.
As president, what are some ofyour responsibilities?
I mean running meetings orattending meetings.
Speaker 2 (38:10):
It's not that it's a tremendous amount of time
consumption on my part, becausethe Indiana Golf Office does
have an executive director andthe employees all answer
directly to him.
But when procedural things comeup or just questions in general
on where we want to go withthings, there is a board that's
(38:33):
in place.
The IGA is also teamed with thePGA of Indiana, so both the IGA
and the PGA have an officergroup and when issues just come
up, we as a group we'll work onthat.
We have a handful of actualmeetings throughout the year
where we'll get together and goover agendas, where we stand on
(38:57):
our budgets and things such asthat, and so it's a little bit
of time involved, but most ofthe day-to-day stuff is still
all done right out of the officeover there.
Speaker 1 (39:11):
What do you see as maybe a couple of the biggest
challenges with just the game ofgolf in general today?
Speaker 2 (39:22):
Well, prior to the COVID years, golf was a little
bit on the downswing, not justin Indiana but all over.
But after that there's been arebirth and, quite honestly, the
game is quite strong now.
I think the biggest thing thatwe as a group are trying to work
(39:50):
on is the so-called just casualgolfer.
If you've ever been to a topgolf, you'll see a lot of
players or people there who'venever played golf before, but
the places are always constantlybusy.
It's almost like a bowlingalley.
You can go in and sit down, youcan order food, drink.
(40:11):
When it's your turn, you get upand play.
So that type of golfer we aretrying to focus on, to get
involved in some justnon-stressful tournaments,
sociable type events, and we'redoing pretty well with that.
Speaker 1 (40:30):
Yeah, I mean I always think of one of the challenges
with golf is it takes a longtime, it's hard and it's
expensive.
Those are the things that Ithink of when people talk about
kind of the downside to golf isthose things.
Speaker 2 (40:46):
And that's kind of where we were just a few years
ago.
But for whatever reason, after,after covid, no longer the
problem.
Speaker 1 (40:54):
So what I was part of my question was going to be
what are the challenges and whatare some of the things you're
excited about?
Speaker 2 (41:01):
and I think you kind of answered both of them a
little bit about one other thingthat we're doing is a as a
indiana golf association,slashGA, Our headquarters for
the last several years has beenin Franklin, Indiana, butted up
to the Legends Golf Course.
We've sold that property andjust recently broke ground for a
(41:24):
new location in Indianapoliswhich is more centrally located
and it's going to be located inLawrence, Indiana, at the Fort
Golf Course, which is on the oldFort Benjamin Harrison.
It's a great, great facility.
It was redone several years agoby Pete Dye and through the
state and the Department ofNatural Resources we've been
(41:49):
given some ground there andhopefully within the next year
or so there'll be a brand newfacility built there.
Speaker 1 (41:59):
What's the kind of do you know what?
The budget for that buildinghas been About six and a half
million.
Speaker 2 (42:04):
Yeah, and we're in the process right now of
fundraising and doing quite wellwith that, so I don't think
that's going to be a problem tohit that goal.
Speaker 1 (42:15):
During the time that, all these years that you've
been playing golf, you've had tohave met some unique people.
During those years, I meananybody.
Any few people stand out to you, people that you've met that
really you wouldn't have metbecause of the game.
Speaker 2 (42:38):
I know you've met a lot of people, but I have met a
lot of people fuzzy zeller fromindiana, bill kratzert, who
you'll see doing live broadcastsstill on tv from indiana.
But I've been able to sit downwith arnold Palmer.
I've actually sat down and hada 10 or 15-minute conversation
with Jack Nicklaus.
Lots of impressive people,business people, and I'm sure
(43:02):
I've been around several morethat I'm just not.
They're just not coming to mindright now, but yeah, it's been
fun.
Speaker 1 (43:11):
So I remember a little bit about the story about
you getting to getting to speakto jack nicholas, and I think
it was probably a handful ofyears ago now, was it like some,
somewhat correct on that youare and uh.
So I mean he's definitely, uh,jack is up there in age, but how
was he pretty engaging guy atthat time when you sat and
(43:31):
talked to him that day, I mean.
Speaker 2 (43:34):
Jack was probably 80 years old at the time.
Okay, and in all reality I was anervous wreck, but I had had a
story given to me by someonehere locally that had the chance
to be with him years and yearsago and they had asked me if I
got a chance to sit down andrelate this story to him and
(44:01):
when you think of the amount ofpeople he's met that he sees on
a daily basis, uh, he took thetime to sit and listen, and I
don't know if this is the truthor not, but he acted as if he
remembered, and it wasimpressive for me to sit there
(44:23):
and listen to him respond backin a way that made me think he
really did.
Speaker 1 (44:27):
Yeah, growing up, I mean you played golf a lot, just
from being a kid.
Do you remember followingprofessional golf much at all?
Or was it you're just moreconcerned, just going out there
and playing with your friends?
Speaker 2 (44:40):
I did.
My father took me to play notto play but to watch a few of
the PGA events.
But back in those days you knowlive broadcasts on TV events.
But back in those days you knowlive broadcasts on tv.
That just wasn't a part of yourday-to-day living.
And when it did first come out,I think, if I recall, maybe
(45:01):
only the last three holes of anevent were actually televised,
so it's not like you could keyin on the leaders all the way
through their round.
You just had to watch who wason 18, 17 and 16, which very
well might not have been yourleaders, but that was pretty
much of the broadcast back inthose days.
Speaker 1 (45:22):
So I didn't know if there was like certain
professional golfers that werethat you kind of just were the
guys that you like the most.
You know, everybody's gotathletes.
If if you're a bat, if you playbasketball, there's probably a
basketball player that you kindof just were the guys that you
liked the most.
You know everybody's gotathletes.
If you play basketball, there'sprobably a basketball player
that you like.
Speaker 2 (45:38):
So I didn't know if there was golfers back then.
I was a big fan of Ben Hogan,not because of his personality,
because he didn't have much ofone, but he was a tremendous
player.
And Arnold Palmer, who I justthought was phenomenal, still do
, and he had the charisma and hereally is the one who was able
(45:58):
to springboard golf into whatit's become today.
Right.
Speaker 1 (46:04):
And then I guess you could maybe say Tiger Woods
transformed it in a major wayafter that.
Speaker 2 (46:12):
I think so.
Speaker 1 (46:13):
Yeah, I mean I'm going to be 60 this year, but
you know, when I think I meantimes that I was really into
golf, because I didn't reallystart playing golf much until I
was in my 20s.
And you know, tiger Woods comeson the scene and there's just
(46:35):
nobody like him.
I love Jack Nicklaus and I lovewatching some of the old stuff.
When he won the Masters thelast time, it seems like every
year or so I'll go back and tryto bring up the footage and
watch that again because it wasjust wonderful.
I wish that would have beenrecorded into today's technology
because it would have beenreally, but it was still amazing
(46:58):
to watch him win thattournament, you know it's.
Speaker 2 (47:02):
It's hard to compare generations, but, uh, there's no
question in my mind that tigerhas played the best golf that's
ever been played by anyone.
Now, was he as dominant asmaybe someone else was?
Probably, and maybe even moreso, but there's always been your
dominant players in each of thegenerations.
It just seems because of whenhe came along and after Arnold,
(47:25):
he was able to transcend it,even to a new level, and I don't
see anyone out there yet that'sable to move the needle quite
like he did.
Speaker 1 (47:32):
And what's so scary about him is I think he probably
could have won way more than hedid.
I do too but physicallypersonal and physical challenges
, you know kind of, you know Ithink gotten away at that.
Speaker 2 (47:44):
They did for him.
Speaker 1 (47:46):
Um, I mean every lots of kids.
There's kids today that areplaying basketball, who are
seven, eight, nine years old,who their dream has become go to
the NBA.
It is so.
Was there ever a point when youwere playing like you said oh,
(48:09):
it'd be really cool if I couldgo be a professional golfer.
Did it ever?
When did that kind of enteryour mind?
I mean, you've had a greatcareer and I've seen you play
some incredibly good golf.
You're probably the first tosay there's a lot of guys like
me, you know, but did thosethoughts ever come in your mind?
Speaker 2 (48:35):
Well, they did.
When I was in college I thoughtabout it, but back in those
days everything was top heavy.
Only the guys who won or whowere in the top ten really made
a living.
Who won or who in the top 10really made a living.
So the financial rewards werenothing like today, where just
(48:58):
if you make it on tour, you knowmillions of dollars are going
to pour your way.
And also through competition.
In college I got to play withsome of these guys who actually
did become very, very goodplayers on the pga tour, and
they were better than I was, andwhen I used to tell you I was
one of 10 000, it's a truestatement and your chances of
(49:23):
being that one in 10 000.
To get there, you know,everything just has to fall in
place, lightning has to strikeat the right time and your odds
just aren't good.
So if you do make that decisionto try to move into the
professional ranks and you don'tdo well or well enough, you've
lost maybe five to ten yearsworth of running power, and that
(49:48):
was the decision why I decidednot to.
And that was the decision why Idecided not to.
Speaker 1 (49:51):
Did you ever try to qualify for, like the US Open or
the I don't know the US Amateur?
Did you ever try to qualify forsome of those tournaments?
Speaker 2 (50:02):
Nothing US Open-wise US Amateur only one time because
I was working.
It was just tough for me to beable to justify doing that.
But I did qualify for severalUnited States mid-amateurs and I
qualified for several UnitedStates senior amateurs and some
USGA team events.
(50:23):
So I think I played in about 10USGA events over my career and
that's a step above level-wise.
Speaker 1 (50:33):
I don't know what it would have been.
You still play a great game,but I would think when you
consider your prime, I'm notsure what it would have been
like to try to qualify for a USOpen, or what the process would
have been then versus what it iseven today.
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (50:50):
It was more difficult almost then in terms of the
amount of steps you had to taketo get to a US Open, but as far
as the level of skill that youhave to have today, it's even
greater.
It's tough to do.
Plus, you know, when you'retalking about a US Open your
professionals are playing thanthat as well, so I just never
(51:16):
did give that a shot.
Speaker 1 (51:20):
Any, as we're wrapping up, any interesting
stories about golf that youthink that our followers would
like to hear about.
Speaker 2 (51:29):
Maybe some of our stories.
I don't know about those.
Speaker 1 (51:33):
I think those are better left between us?
Speaker 2 (51:36):
Then probably not.
Speaker 1 (51:38):
Okay, well, I've really enjoyed talking to you
about this and enjoyed the timesthat we've played golf and just
what you've done for the gameof golf and what you're doing
with the IGA, and it's just beena real pleasure to get to talk
(52:02):
to you.
I appreciate you doing thiswith me today and I guess,
without anything else, we'lljust wrap it up, okay sounds
great.
Speaker 2 (52:10):
Thank you so much.
I really appreciate it verymuch have fun Michael Allen from
Manpower.
Speaker 1 (52:17):
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