April 21, 2025 • 61 mins
The Hub Podcast with host Michael Allen, sponsored by Manpower Richmond – visit mprichmond.com
In this episode, Michael sits down with Brett Guiley and Matt Golliher of Vista Investment Partners for a powerful conversation on the future of finance and how digital assets like Bitcoin are reshaping the investment landscape.
The episode kicks off with timeless investing wisdom – including Brett’s breakdown of the “Rule of 72,” a simple way to understand how long it takes your money to double at a given interest rate. It’s a reminder that the earlier you start, the more time you give your investments to grow through compound interest.
Brett and Matt also stress the importance of building a solid financial foundation: start with an emergency fund that covers 3–6 months of expenses. Once that’s in place, you can confidently begin investing for the long term.
Things get especially interesting as the conversation turns to Bitcoin. Unlike traditional assets, Bitcoin has a hard cap of 21 million coins, creating a unique form of digital scarcity. Because of this, they see it not just as another crypto, but as an entirely separate asset class – one with the potential to act as digital gold that’s transferable in real time.
They also share why their firm launched Orange Horizon Wealth, a service tailored specifically for clients interested in Bitcoin-focused financial planning. It’s a growing area of interest as more people explore how Bitcoin can fit into a long-term investment strategy.
Whether you’re new to investing or curious about where digital assets fit in, this episode offers real, actionable insight from two experienced financial advisors.
👉 Ready to start building your future? Press play and take the first step.
Disclaimer: Vista Investment Partners is an investment adviser registered under the Investment Advisers Act of 1940. Registration as an investment adviser does not imply any level of skill or training. The oral and written communications of an adviser provide you with information about which you determine to hire or retain an adviser. For more information please visit: https://adviserinfo.sec.gov and search for our firm name.
This presentation has been provided for informational purposes only and is not intended as legal or investment advice or a recommendation of any particular security or strategy. The investment strategy and themes discussed herein may be unsuitable for investors depending on their specific investment objectives and financial situation. Information obtained from third-party sources is believed to be reliable though its accuracy is not guaranteed. Opinions expressed in this commentary reflect subjective judgments of the author based on conditions at the time of publication and are subject to change without notice. Past performance is not indicative of future results.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to the Hub Podcast recorded right here in
Richmond, indiana.
I'm your host, michael Allen,and on the Hub, our mission is
to share stories of peoplemaking a difference in our
region.
In addition to hosting thepodcast, I work with a wonderful
team of staffing professionalsat Manpower.
Manpower is helping companiesall over East Central Indiana
find staffing so they cancontinue to grow and thrive.
(00:24):
Find out how we can help yourcompany at mprichmondcom.
With us on this episode of theHub is Brett Guiley and Matt
Goyer.
Both are with Vista InvestmentPartners here in Richmond
Indiana.
Brett and Matt, welcome to theHub.
Thank you, great to have youhere today I go to church with
one of your newer investmentpartners, jonathan Camps, and he
(00:47):
was super passionate aboutasking me to get you guys on the
hub.
He thought that what you had tosay was extremely important,
not for just promotional reasons, but just things about
investments and what we'll getinto cryptocurrency.
So and I was I'm glad we couldwork it out today and it's
(01:11):
always fun to have like tworeally bright guys on the hub
super smart guys, I don't knowabout that, but thanks.
But and I think the timing iskind of cool with some of the
stuff For our followers, youknow, you know um, you know
we're here in uh mid-april andsome things have been going on
with the market.
It's been kind of interestingand kind of got people worked up
(01:33):
a little bit.
So but before we get into that,I would like to start with uh
tradition we have here on thehub and I'm going to ask both
you guys, uh, what was your veryfirst job?
So I'm interested in employment.
You know, given that I'm in toask both you guys, uh, what was
your very first job?
So I'm interested in employment, you know, given that I'm in
the staffing industry andmanpower.
So, brett, we'll start with youon this one.
Speaker 3 (01:52):
So tell us about your first, very first job, where
you got a paycheck and how topay taxes so I grew up in rural
southern missouri, okay, and thetown that I went to high school
and was called farmington.
So that should give you a goodindication as to the type of
area I grew up in.
But the little suburb ofFarmington that I grew up in was
called Doe Run and one of myfriend's parents started a
(02:16):
restaurant called the PlantationHouse, and so I became a bus
boy and I remember the jobinterview.
I went in and the restaurantmanager and the cook asked me
well, how old are you?
And I said, well, I'm 15 and ahalf.
And they both thought that washilarious because I had to throw
the half in there.
So that was my first job.
Speaker 1 (02:35):
Yeah, so how much did you get paid?
Do you remember?
Speaker 3 (02:40):
Not very much, but what I didn't get paid I made up
for in eating food.
Speaker 1 (02:45):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
I had one of the restaurantjobs and to this day I'm still
carrying around weight from thatjob.
So how about you, matt?
Speaker 2 (02:53):
First official job with W-2 and taxes withheld and
everything.
I grew up in Cambridge City soI became a bag boy at Cutshall's
Grocery and I was there forabout two years, I think the
last couple of years of highschool, and I know it was
minimum wage, but I don't knowwhat that was at the time $5.25
(03:16):
maybe?
Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 1 (03:18):
I mean when I went to work fast food in my senior
year in high school, I minimumwage was like like two something
an hour.
It's like that doesn't seemlike a lot of money.
At least right now it doesn't.
But uh, yeah, so that's great.
I mean any.
Uh.
Speaker 3 (03:34):
When you look back at just doing those first jobs,
any any lessons learned, youthink just, even with the first
experiences, I saved my firstpaycheck and at the time this
was in the early 90s bought apair of guest jeans with the
entire paycheck and I look backon that and I'm thinking that
(03:57):
was ridiculous, but that was myfirst freedom purchase from my
folks and I think about that asstarting my entrepreneurial
journey that we're on now.
Speaker 2 (04:06):
Yeah, yeah, I would say you know I had quote unquote
jobs before making money,bailing hay, doing things like
that, but that was really thefirst job where I had consistent
income.
You know managing a bankaccount, so I somewhat consider
that job my foray into adultfinancial life.
And then you know everythingrelated to being on time.
(04:29):
You know everything you have todo to have a job for two, two
and a half years, right, right.
Speaker 1 (04:35):
Well, it seems like my memory that I have the most
is I would just blow through themoney.
Memory that I have the most isI would just blow through the
money.
So it was been a lesson I'vetried to pass on to my kids, not
not to do that so that.
That was, I guess, one of myfirst lessons learned on a
(04:58):
personal level.
So what, uh what, contributedto each of you seeking a career
in investment?
I remember planning.
Speaker 3 (05:05):
Yeah, I remember always being interested in
markets.
Um, like many young boys andgirls my age, I started out
collecting baseball cards andgot the pricing guides and learn
things can go up and down invalue and, uh, quickly developed
an interest in the stock market.
Um, I was fortunate to savesome money, probably from one of
(05:25):
those jobs that I had early on,and invested $250 in a mutual
fund right before the stockmarket dropped in 1987.
And that was my firstinvestment.
So I would call up a 1-800number and listen to type in my
account number and listen to thevalue every week and I would
keep track of it on a yellow pad.
And my, my sisters remember medoing this and they even brought
(05:49):
it up this weekend when I sawthem and and so I left that in
there and to for about 12 yearsand then sold that to buy my my
now wife's wedding ring.
So that was my first foray thatI thought, well, maybe I'm
pretty good at this.
Speaker 1 (06:03):
Yeah, that's cool, I mean, and you were how old.
Speaker 3 (06:06):
At that point I would have been probably about 10 or
11.
Wow.
Speaker 1 (06:10):
Wow, that's amazing.
Speaker 2 (06:13):
How about you, matt?
Somewhat similar.
I went to Indiana University inBloomington and I spent the
first couple of years therereally having no idea what I
wanted to do for a living.
But during my junior year Istarted taking more finance
oriented classes and I'd alwaysbeen interested, even before
that, in economics and I'd donea lot of reading on my own time,
(06:35):
and so the last half of myundergrad was more finance
focused in terms of my classload, and I found an opportunity
at West Point in Indianapolis.
That was my first job out ofcollege and I was fortunate
enough that I liked it enoughthat I decided that's what I
(06:55):
wanted to do with my turn myliving.
So it's been an interestingjourney.
You know, as a financialadvisor in multiple capacities
for different types of firms,I've seen some different angles
of the industry, but that's howI got.
That's how I got started.
Speaker 1 (07:11):
I was lucky that it worked out so, if I'm hearing
correctly, both of you wentright into it right away as your
career.
So how was it?
I want to go back in a minuteand ask you a little bit about
your personal history.
But how was that being a youngperson trying to advise people
(07:35):
on on financial planning andinvestments when, just by,
you're just like your young guy?
So I mean, I would think if youcould run across some potential
clients to say, well, what doyou know?
You haven't been around longenough to even know, know this
business, and so how did you runacross that?
Or or how did you manage that?
(07:57):
Is that a fair question?
Or?
Speaker 2 (07:59):
yeah, I think so I'll start.
Um, that was a recurring thingthat happened the first, I'd say
, five years of my career whereI graduated college, so I was 22
.
I looked like I was 15.
And I remember, after WestPoint, my next transition, I
decided to go to a bank program,first Merchants, and I remember
(08:23):
meeting a new potential clientfor the first time in the lobby
and walking to my office and ahandful of times one of the
first things they said to me ishow old are you?
Yeah, and so I had to work toearn the credibility.
And you know, I think for anyyoung professional there's a
degree of imposter syndrome, andI definitely had that.
(08:45):
You know who?
Who am I?
Some 20 something year old whopresumes to advise this
successful business owner onwhat to do with his million
dollar portfolio.
But just with time andexperience comes the conviction
that you know I am aknowledgeable professional and
this person could benefit frommy help.
It's their decision whetherthey want to take advantage of
(09:07):
that or not, and so over timethat just continually got better
.
But that was certainly adynamic early in my career, I'd
say.
Speaker 1 (09:15):
How about you, Brad?
Did you run into that any?
Speaker 3 (09:19):
Definitely so.
I started my career in 2000with Merrill Lynch as a trainee.
I started my career in 2000with Merrill Lynch as a trainee.
And when you do that you don'trealize that when you're coming
out of you know, I came out ofan undergraduate education where
I had a lot of business coursesand graduated the business
degree.
That doesn't necessarilyqualify you to be a financial
(09:39):
advisor.
So you have to take all sortsof industry tests and that still
doesn't qualify you to handlesome of these money.
So you have to take all sortsof industry tests and that still
doesn't qualify you to handlesome of these money.
And I remember early in mycareer there being a bullpen in
Dayton of advisors that weresome of them mid-career, that
were making a career transitionand this is in the tech bubble
(09:59):
days who had come out ofWright-Patt Air Force Base and
was in his 50s, telling somebodyI think this stock is a good
value and he said the price andmy mouth fell open because I
couldn't believe that.
You know that was good adviceand in fact it wasn't.
And then the market took thefirst tumble of my career.
So I definitely had thatsyndrome where I shouldn't be
(10:21):
here.
And you know people didn'tnecessarily trust me right away,
so it took I would say eight to10 years before I gained enough
confidence and enough umbusiness acumen to where it was
like I've seen this before.
Speaker 1 (10:36):
You can trust me, mm-hmm.
So that makes it, uh, you knowthat's that's a long period of
time to try to get you know, getyour your groove in the end and
I'm sure with that you know thethe income isn't what.
Maybe you wanted it to be earlyon than what it is.
(10:56):
You know you get later in yourcareers or whatever.
I'm sure there's maybe acorrelation there a little bit,
I think.
So, yeah, so one thing that Iwanted is to go back on and
you've shared a little bit of it.
But, um, maybe, matt, we canstart with you.
Just share a little bit for ourfollowers.
You know a little aboutyourself growing up and just
(11:18):
kind of your some of yourpersonal story yeah, so I think
I mentioned previously I grew upon a farm in Cambridge city.
Speaker 2 (11:25):
Uh, I'm a triplet, so uh, matt, dan and Joe are our
names, and then I have fiveolder half siblings, so big farm
family.
There's a lot of Goliardsrunning around Wayne County.
Uh went to Hagerstown forelementary high school
everything like that playedfootball, ran track.
Uh went to IU for collegeu forcollege, and uh, I'd say my
(11:45):
biggest hobby is probablyreading.
I've always been an obsessivereader, which, um, plays into
the story of my career a littlebit, which we may get into, but
I read that you gave me thisarticle to read and in that
article I remember you.
Speaker 1 (12:00):
you mentioned reading a lot of books on the topic of
cryptocurrency and Bitcoin, sowe can touch on that a little
bit later.
How about you?
Speaker 3 (12:13):
The short version is as I mentioned, I'm originally
from Missouri, went to theUniversity of Evansville and
that's where I was fortunateenough to meet Shannon Van Vliet
, who I've been married to for25 years, in June, and we have
three children Jack, lauren andAddison.
All three are not young anymore22, 20, and 18.
(12:34):
And Jack is getting ready tograduate with an economics
degree from DePaul.
Lauren is studying occupationaltherapy at St Louis University
in Missouri, close to where myfamily is from, and Addison is a
senior at Eaton High School inMissouri, close to where my
family is from.
And Addison is a senior atEaton High School in Ohio and
going to be studying speechtherapy at Western Kentucky
University.
(12:54):
And I've been fortunate enoughto become a business owner, own
Vista Investment Partners andhave a great team of people that
work with me.
And then we also, inconjunction with Matt, launched
Orange Horizon Wealth which wecan get into a little bit later,
which is a subsidiary of VistaInvestment Partners, and we
started that last May.
Speaker 1 (13:14):
Okay, All right.
So how long has Vista been yourcompany?
How long have you?
What year did you start?
Speaker 3 (13:22):
So, as I mentioned, I started my career in 2000.
In 2006, we moved to RaymondJames from Merrill Lynch, and
Raymond James gives you theflexibility with your career
that if, at any point, you don'twant to become, you don't want
to be an employee advisor, butyou want to be an independent
advisor with them, you can dothat.
Speaker 1 (13:40):
So in 2018, we pivoted our business and became
an independent division ofraymond james and named our llc
vista investment partners okay,investing money is pretty scary
for people because they'reafraid they might lose it and uh
, but I don't think stuffing itin a mattress is probably a
(14:04):
productive method of savings.
And so how do we kind of getstarted in that?
You know, as far as investmentstrategies and why it's
important to be thinking aboutthat, I've known people that are
(14:25):
just totally terrified to putanything in investment, so they
just hold on to their cash andthey've just had it in pretty
low-yielding savings accountswhich probably aren't even
barely keeping up with the rateof inflation, maybe even under
that, I don't know.
So I don't know where welaunching is for this discussion
(14:48):
.
But, um, you know it, where dowe get started?
Is it ever too late?
Is it ever too early?
I think the answer is probablyno, it's not.
But, uh, how can we start thatconversation about?
Just about getting started inthat and what you should, what
people should, be thinking about, I guess yeah yeah, I.
Speaker 2 (15:10):
The first point I would make is that in the
current monetary system thatwe've all grown up in for the
last 50 some odd years, thechallenge for investors is that
investing is not optionalbecause the currency loses
purchasing power every year.
Where, in a scenario where youcould just save money, that
allows you the luxury of sittingback and only making an
(15:32):
investment if and when youdecide that that's a prudent
thing to do.
And in cases like that, youtend to only invest your money
or deploy your money at risk ininvestment ventures that you
have a deep level of knowledgein and where you trust and know
the people involved.
That's not the case currently,where you know.
(15:53):
The other point is that thereis no, because you mentioned
that people are scared to investin the stock market because
it's risky, but there is norisk-free thing you can do with
your money.
You know, if you had $100,000and you did put that in the
proverbial mattress, 10 yearslater, let's say, we have an
inflationary decade and theprice of everything is doubled,
(16:20):
and so you lift up your mattress.
You look, all of your $100bills are still there.
So two things are true at thesame time you didn't lose any
money and you lost half yourmoney.
Or, more precisely, you didn'tlose any currency, but you lost
half your money.
Or, more precisely, you didn'tlose any currency, but you lost
half your purchasing power.
So a big part of what we do forclients is try to help them
strike the smartest balancebetween market volatility risk
and currency debasement risk,and that's where I like to start
(16:42):
the framework for investing.
Speaker 1 (16:47):
As far as I had talked to guys a little bit
before today and we had I kindof unscientific range, but I was
thinking about, you know, maybeage 20 to 30.
I mean, you were 10 years old.
I don't think that's the norm,but maybe, like I'm thinking, 20
(17:08):
to 35, 35 to 50, 50 to 65, andthen 65 and older.
I mean I don't know.
Surely there's different thingsthat you look at based upon
where a person is in their timeof life.
I mean, what about thosedifferent ranges?
And as far as advising peoplequestions, you may ask those
(17:32):
folks, as far as you know, readyto make some investments at
those different stages.
I mean they may be starting atone stage and as they go on, you
make changes to their portfolio.
So, what's some of the startingpoints for younger investors
maybe who started there?
Speaker 3 (17:52):
When we talk to somebody for the first time, we
talk about critical financialevents, and that's a key term
for anything where money isinvolved.
So that could be retirement,that could be loss of a loved
one, an inheritance, a jobchange, a special purchase or
the first purchase of a home, orplanning for college, those
(18:13):
types of things.
So once we establish what weare saving and investing for,
then we can start a plan as towhy we're going to use those
capital dollars and put them atrisk.
As Matt said, and typically theyounger a person is, the more
time they have for that money togrow there's a rule in finance
(18:34):
we call the rule of 72, whichwe'll talk about a lot of times,
and that means that if you'reable to get 10% return on your
investments generally speaking,10% a year, generally speaking
your money should double every7.2 years.
And so if you think of yourlife and in your investing
(18:56):
lifestyle in terms of seven to10 year increments, you can
start to plan out.
Okay, if you put money to workin your twenties, how many 7.2
year periods do you have untilyou're going to need the money,
potentially at retirement?
And so then, doing a good jobof assessing somebody's risk
tolerance, you know.
(19:16):
If they're going to panic whenthe market's down 10%, we might
go ahead and reduce the risk inthe portfolio by adding more
other asset classes, such asbonds, cash, money markets, cds,
treasuries, things like that,where, if they can stomach those
10% volatility up and down or20%, you know we're going to
(19:38):
have more at-risk assets such asthe stock market.
The stock market, you know,roughly averages 10% a year.
So when a person's in their 20sthey might be able to stomach
100% of their money in the stockmarket going up and down.
If they're 65, 75, 85, they maynot want that risk because they
may have designs on what theyneed the money for, either to
(20:02):
help supplement retirementincome, to leave a legacy to
pass on to the next generation.
Speaker 1 (20:10):
I'm sure you've met with potential clients and you
know they want to do something.
But they come in they say, orsomeone talks to you and say I
really don't have any money thatI can invest.
So I mean, how do you show themthat maybe they do?
I mean, I'm sure, because, well, I got this house payment, I'm
(20:30):
trying to get this car paymentand I got you know, and uh.
So I think a lot of peoplecould sit there and look and
like I don't have I can't I mean, I know I need to invest, but I
really can't based on what Isee.
Do you, do you haveconversations like that with
people?
Speaker 2 (20:46):
Yeah, and it's fairly common, I would say, for
clients to ask us to meet withtheir children, their young
adult children, when they'rejust getting started, and so
that's a fairly commonconversation that both of us
have had.
For a younger investor who'sthinking about starting to
invest and I think about that,for the phrase I use is
(21:07):
investing from a strongfoundation where the first thing
I like to see is that they havean adequate emergency fund and
rule of thumb.
You'll often hear three to sixmonths of expenses, but the
actual amount of money variesjust based on the person.
But the critical point is thatwhen investors you know a young
(21:27):
investor they get their firstjob where they're earning, you
know their first real paycheckand they're considering starting
to invest some of that money.
If they do that without firstbuilding up some sort of savings
, then the very likely result isthat they're not going to be
able to invest that money forthe long term.
They're going to have to sellit if and when they need it, and
(21:48):
they may not have a good pricewhen they sell that.
So as long as they have somesavings, then they're in a
position where they could start$50 a month.
They could open an IRA or abrokerage account and you can
start investing.
You don't need, you know, ahundred thousand dollars to
(22:09):
start making investments.
You can do it slowly, over time, and that's that's the most
important thing is just beingconsistent and having your money
invested in the market andbeing in a position where you're
not going to have to be aforced seller of your long-term
investment.
Speaker 1 (22:24):
So what are some of the key factors that you
consider with clients beforemaking investments?
What are some of the things Imean?
You kind of hit on it, I think,but is there any more that we
can?
Elaborate in that area.
Speaker 3 (22:38):
We try to do a good job of getting to know the
person first, getting to knowtheir investing history, if they
do have one, and what they didemotionally when the last
downturn came.
Did they have to pull money out?
Did they have an unfortunateevent that caused them to have
to spend it all?
Do they have a scarcitymentality with their money or an
(23:02):
abundant mentality?
Are they a giver?
Are they a saver?
It's really important on thefront end that we interview them
before we ever make aninvestment recommendation.
So that, to me, is the key to astarting foundation.
And back to kind of the youngperson.
It can be very daunting to say,oh, I have to save all this
(23:24):
money, hopefully for the rainyday for retirement, wanting to
say, oh, I have to save all thismoney, hopefully for the rainy
day for retirement.
In some ways it's like amortgage in reverse, though.
You pay off a mortgage you knowmany times, traditionally 30
years every month for 30 years,360 payments, and that seems
very daunting at the beginning.
But after a while you kind ofget it on autopilot and you
(23:45):
don't even think about it andall of a sudden, sudden,
hopefully, the home's paid off.
Same way with investing you canstart and just auto
automatically commit to anamount.
All of a sudden you wake up oneday in the market which is
still the greatest wealthcreator in the universe, in my
opinion, the stock market.
All of a sudden you have a nicelittle nest egg, hopefully,
sure mortgages are tough becauseyou end up paying a lot for
(24:10):
your house.
Speaker 1 (24:13):
Do you have conversations with clients about
alternatives to mortgages?
I mean, is that even the thingthat comes up in your
conversations, or not?
Speaker 2 (24:22):
Yeah, I would say one common thing that comes up is a
client has a mortgage and thenthey have, you know, windfall of
money, whether that's aninheritance or something else.
And it's a very common problemwe help clients with is helping
them weigh the consideration ondo I pay off my mortgage or do I
invest the money.
And I'll commonly give twoanswers where, on paper,
(24:45):
mathematically, if you caninvest money, where you're
confident that your long-termrate of return is higher than
the interest rate on themortgage, then on paper it makes
sense to invest the extra money.
But I also try to acknowledgethat there's a value to owning a
home, free and clear, that doesnot show up on a spreadsheet,
so it's not, you know, for thatclient.
(25:07):
It's a balance of thoseconsiderations and we help them
weigh that and try to make thebest decision on that.
Unfortunately, especially foryoung people who wish to acquire
a home, if they want to do itbefore they're 40 or 50, for a
lot of people there is noalternative to getting a
mortgage.
That's kind of how the systemworks.
Speaker 1 (25:30):
It was maybe different when the rates were
lower than they are now.
I mean, the last time that Igot a mortgage the rate was
under 3%.
That seems like free moneytoday.
Maybe in some ways it is so nowto pay.
(25:53):
You know what was even higher?
I think right now the rates are6% to 7%.
So that makes it tough to thinkabout paying that much interest
when we were had a really longperiod of time where the rates
were really very low.
Do you think we'll ever get tothose kinds of numbers again?
Speaker 3 (26:18):
I personally think there's a possibility.
We will.
Speaker 1 (26:20):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (26:21):
I think we, you know, that kind of goes into our
economic thesis, which which I,I can tell Matt wants to weigh
in on, as to where we are in theinterest rate cycle and where
we could potentially go yeah, soour talk today.
Speaker 1 (26:36):
We're not really in a situation where we can be
telling people a lot ofspecifics about what they should
do with their money today.
That's not part of what we cando today, correct?
So I'm trying to ask questionswhere we don't get into super
specifics.
Um, how do economic indicatorsinfluence decisions with your
(27:02):
clients?
Uh, you know, recently, um,there's a little president trump
had put all these tariffs onand then the stock market didn't
like that at all and I'm surethat, um, people were getting
like maybe super nervous umabout that.
I mean, what were those kind of?
(27:22):
How do you, what are thoseconversations like, if you can
share, or or how do you, how doyou discuss those with your
clients to try to bring them atease and not have them just
freak out and want to?
Speaker 2 (27:33):
just sell everything.
Yeah, I would say in general foreconomic indicators, the main
part of our job is encouragingclients to take a long-term view
, because in any given yearthere's going to be scary things
that happen and at the time youknow if it's the story of that
news cycle.
(27:53):
It may seem like the end of theworld, but ultimately you zoom
out and you're not even going toremember what that thing was
you were so worried about fiveor 10 years ago.
And you zoom out and look atthe stock market and, although
there is volatility, you'll findthat, especially over the last
50 years in modern equitiesmarkets, the stock market has
(28:14):
climbed a wall of worry andthat's how it generates the
return, where volatility is theprice we pay for that 10% or so
average return.
So economic factors andindicators are definitely
something we look at, but it'snot something that we want
clients to be making theirinvestment decisions on most of
the time and we we encouragethem to think through it that
(28:37):
way as well.
Speaker 1 (28:40):
What are some of the common mistakes that that
investors make?
I mean there's some do's anddon'ts that you try to encourage
your clients not to do whenthey come to you.
I mean one of them, I think, islook toward the long-term.
You just said that, but isthere any other things along
that realm?
Speaker 3 (29:01):
There are definitely exceptions to the rule, but
people will always tell youabout their winners in the stock
market and never their losers.
I've never met a day trader sofar that's still day trading six
months or a year later becauseit's tough.
And it's tough to have theintestinal fortitude to be able
to sell when everything says youshouldn't sell, and vice versa.
(29:25):
So holding on to your positionsthat you have conviction in in
the face of volatility is adifficult thing.
People want to sell becausethat's the emotional response
that they have and that'sbehavioral finance.
When things like the marketvolatility spikes up because of
(29:46):
tariff news.
The market volatility spikes upbecause of tariff news.
Speaker 1 (29:57):
So pulling things out early, I think is probably the
biggest one that we counselpeople on and hold their hand on
the most.
There are some stocks that arereally good about paying
dividends and some that aren't.
Why is there a difference there?
What's?
What's the difference that onethat would be considered a one
that pays well with dividendsand one doesn't is that?
(30:17):
Is that a dumb question, or Idon't think so.
Speaker 2 (30:19):
I don't know if the in general, you know the
dividend paying stocks are goingto be the more established
companies.
Non-dividend paying stockstypically are more growth
oriented or in earlier stages oftheir business life cycle.
So if you think about you knowif you're in charge of a company
, you have a fiduciary duty tomaximize value for your
(30:41):
shareholders.
So when shareholders give youmoney, your job is to earn them
a rate of return and for thatbusiness, the question that they
have is for the cash that theyhave, is there a productive way
to deploy that in order togenerate a return for
shareholders?
Growing the business, upgradingequipment, whatever that may be
(31:02):
, and to the extent that thereis, those companies typically,
rather than paying out cash viadividend to shareholders, will
reinvest that money in thecompany to grow faster.
In a case where there aren'tthose opportunities to grow, the
prudent thing to do as afiduciary or one of them, is to
give the cash back to theshareholders and that's what we
(31:22):
call a dividend.
Speaker 3 (31:25):
I would just add to that one of the strategies and
items that I look at forcompanies that pay dividends is
how frequently do they increasethat dividend?
And the sign of a healthycompany is if they raise their
dividend regularly.
So at minimum, what I'm lookingfor is three times out of the
last five years have theyincreased their earnings and
(31:46):
have they increased theirdividend that they're paying
back to their shareholders?
Speaker 1 (31:54):
Is it?
I don't know if I can ask thisquestion, if you're allowed to
answer it.
Is it typically wise to goahead and, if you get those
dividends, just have itreinvested in that stock?
So you really don't see it andnow you're just you're keeping
increasing your amount of stockthat you own in that company.
Is that, is that a fairly goodpractice to have, or is that
(32:15):
something that we can talk about?
Speaker 3 (32:16):
Depending on where you are in your investor life
cycle.
If you're in your twenties,thirties, forties, fifties and
you're not needing distributions, absolutely reinvesting, it
makes sense.
But it might be a meaningfulpiece of your retirement
equation to take those dividendsas cash flow when you retire.
Speaker 1 (32:35):
Okay, all right, in your line of business.
I mean, sometimes I see thesecommercials and they're like uh
as far as uh in the investmentworld and and sometimes they
make villains out of investorsfor making money.
(32:56):
But I mean you can't do it forfree.
So I mean, so how, how are youguys typically, where's your?
Where do your?
How do you make money at whatyou do?
At the same time, you know, belooking out for your, your, um,
your client's best interest.
I mean cause that.
I mean that just doesn't applyto you guys.
(33:18):
Um, I mean um, any businessowner.
You're not going to be inbusiness if you don't have a way
to earn money for yourself.
I mean at all.
But how, how does that work?
Does that work?
I mean, I just see, it seemslike I see that theme in in in
the investment world, maybe morethan others, as far as the way
(33:39):
that um advertising after theyuse advertising to try to say,
well, you work with us becausewe don't really take any of your
money in and this other guy'sjust trying to graft you.
So I mean, if you don't mindsharing that a little bit, how
that works.
Speaker 3 (33:53):
This is a good question and one that we get
quite a bit In our business.
We are considered a hybridregistered investment advisory
firm.
Well, what's the hybrid partmean?
Well, we're actually registeredwith two different entities
FINRA, which we work with, abroker dealer, and so that's our
traditional business, wherepeople call us up and they say,
(34:15):
hey, I want to own X one.
Also in the broker dealer, wecan offer a suite of various
insurance based products, suchas life insurance and annuities.
So that that is one section ofour business and we will
definitely tell people that weare working with them as a
broker at that point.
Another side of our business isour registered investment
(34:36):
advisory business governed bythe Securities Exchange
Commission, and that istypically a negotiated
management fee based on theassets under management and the
strategies that we employ forclients.
Speaker 1 (34:48):
Okay, the good answer , the.
I had something I was going toask you, maybe to come back to
me, but I guess I want to moveon to kind of what's more of an
interesting or hot topic todayas far as Bitcoin,
cryptocurrency.
So for those that maybe don'tunderstand, I mean, what is
(35:11):
cryptocurrency and even,furthermore, what's the
difference between Bitcoin andother cryptocurrencies?
It's kind of a wide question,but I'll try to do a speed run
on it and start there.
Speaker 2 (35:23):
So in 2009, a digital monetary protocol called
Bitcoin was released by someoneor a group of people named
Satoshi Nakamoto.
No one knows what he, she orthey real identity is, but it
was recognized by very fewpeople as significant and
(35:44):
important.
It had no monetary valuewhatsoever.
There were websites where youcould go on and solve a CAPTCHA
and it would give you fiveBitcoin, which today would be
worth $400,000.
So it started its life as afringe experiment in monetary
technology.
But the reason it wassignificant is and I alluded to
this before where, for thousandsof years, gold was the
(36:08):
preeminent monetary standard,and the biggest reason for that
is that it was the commoditythat, in all of human history,
we could find that was hardestto inflate.
The supply of everyone in theworld decided gold was the best
money, but because it resistedinflation the most, it just was
(36:32):
the case that those who storedtheir wealth in gold kept their
wealth.
Those who stored it in inferiorassets over time lost their
wealth.
The problem is, with the advanceof telecommunication
technologies like the telegraphand the telephone at the turn of
the 19th century, we were ableto send payment information at
the speed of light around theworld, but gold can't move that
fast.
So the global monetary systemevolved, where you deposited
(36:57):
your gold with a trustedintermediary and you exchanged
IOUs for gold, which can be sentat the speed of light across
telecommunication lines.
The problem with that is, ifyou want to inflate the gold
supply, it costs energy to dothat and there is no way around
that cost.
It costs nothing to inflate thesupply of IOUs on gold.
(37:17):
So, predictably, the supply ofIOUs grew beyond the amount of
actual gold that was there andevery central bank in the world
defaulted on its promise toredeem its currency for gold.
What Bitcoin does is itintroduces the same scarcity
that's enforced by the unfakableexpenditure of real world
(37:39):
energy in a digital asset.
So it is gold that can be sentacross telecommunication
channels and that's why it's aninnovation.
Speaker 1 (37:47):
I mean, if you bought gold today, though, you
wouldn't they wouldn't send youbars of gold to your house,
right, I mean, or maybe I get it.
Who's the Senator orCongressman that had all the
gold in his house?
Speaker 2 (38:00):
Oh, I forget the one who got in trouble.
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (38:03):
But uh, I mean, but, uh, I mean, but some people do
buy that, but it's just isn't,it's just held somewhere and I
don't know.
I mean, I see advertisementsall the time.
People want you to buy gold.
Still to this day with um.
Speaker 2 (38:17):
With gold or bitcoin.
Um owners can choose to custodyit themselves, in which they're
responsible for it, or they canoutsource that to a trusted
custodian so back to um, inwhich they're responsible for it
, or they can outsource that toa trusted custodian.
Speaker 1 (38:33):
So back to Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies.
So we have Bitcoin, but then wehave all these other currencies
out there that people arebuying, and it's all kinds of
prices and whatever.
I mean you guys are primarilyor only into Bitcoin.
(38:54):
Is that right?
As far as financial advising,is that correct?
Only Bitcoin, okay, and that's.
I think that involves OrangeHorizon Wealth.
Is that part of?
you know the subsidiary of yourcompany.
So how, how do you I mean, ifpeople, how does that work?
(39:16):
I guess I'm trying to.
I'm at a loss of words becauseI don't know if I totally
understand, but I mean.
So what does um, thatsubsidiary do?
As it relates to Bitcoin andpeople making investments, I
guess?
Speaker 2 (39:30):
Yeah, the orange horizon wealth is a division of
Vista investment partners thatfocuses on Bitcoin centric
financial planning and wealthmanagement.
So, for all of Vista's clientsthat we've had before Orange
Horizon, we educate them aboutBitcoin and we can offer it and
do offer it to them in a varietyof ways, but the opportunity
(39:52):
that we identified is that amassively underserved niche of
clientele all throughout the USwho have discovered Bitcoin,
adopted it and, in their mind,view it as the most important
asset that they hold.
The challenge is, when aninvestor like that needs a
financial advisor, the mostcommon experience that they come
(40:13):
up against is that that advisorhas no idea what Bitcoin is and
is not able to offer them anyadvice around it or, even worse,
potentially bad advice aroundit.
And so Orange Horizon reallyyou can think of it as a
separate brand of Vista onething, but orange horizon
(40:39):
focuses on helping bitcoiners,as we call them, uh, in all
areas of traditional wealthmanagement, portfolio management
and financial planning, butdelivered from a team of
advisors that has a deepunderstanding of bitcoin because
, uh, on a personal level,you've invested a lot of energy
in trying to learn it and and uhuh, be an expert on it, and so,
uh, I don't know, um, wherethat fits.
Speaker 1 (41:04):
You know, when you talk about that and financial
planning, I'm still a little, alittle unsure of of how that
becomes part of your part ofyour portfolio and what you do
with it.
I mean, is it just making it apercent of what you're invested
(41:24):
in and trying to diversify byhaving some in Bitcoin, or is it
you're helping peopletransition everything into that?
I think, in part of the articlethat you wrote that you gave me
, that you said, apart from yourarticles is I talk to investors
almost every week now that fitthe following description
(41:46):
they're within 10 years ofretirement, they have seven
figures of investable net worthand have more than 50 percent
allocated to Bitcoin more than50% allocated to Bitcoin.
So is that the part whereyou're helping them?
You?
Speaker 2 (42:05):
know, do that 50% into Bitcoin or the most?
From an investment perspective,probably the most important
aspect of Bitcoin is that it isthe first asset with an
immutably fixed supply.
So with any other asset, as theprice goes up, the incentive to
create more of it goes up.
There are currently deposits ofgold all throughout the world
that would not be profitable toextract from the ground and,
(42:28):
from a strictly physics sense,gold is infinitely abundant.
The challenge is how much doesit cost you to acquire the gold,
and is the market value of thatgold higher than the cost to
acquire it?
Sure, so if the price of golddoubled tomorrow, you would
suddenly find that there's a lotof gold out there that is now
suddenly profitable to extractfrom the ground.
So that's true of every asset,that's true of stocks, that's
(42:50):
true of houses.
Bitcoin's the first asset thatthat's not true, for no matter
how high the price goes, theprotocol limits the terminal
supply to 21 million Bitcoin.
So for investors who arelooking at it, we help clients
in broadly in two ways.
Bitcoin can be used as asavings vehicle, or it can be
used as a portfolio enhancer.
(43:11):
So in the case where it's usedas a savings vehicle, we're able
to offer clients actual Bitcoin, the actual digital asset that
they can either leave with us tocustody for them, or they can
withdraw into their own custodyand keep on a dedicated hardware
device, or we now offer amultitude of portfolios that
(43:31):
have a segment allocation ofBitcoin ranging from pretty
small to pretty substantial, andtypically at this point we get
that exposure through what'scalled a spot ETF or exchange
traded fund.
Speaker 1 (43:46):
Is Bitcoin part of?
If people have an IRA, canBitcoin be a part of that money
that's being invested into yourIRAs?
Speaker 2 (43:57):
Yes, it can be part or all of it in some cases.
Speaker 1 (43:59):
Okay, and it seems like people are downloading apps
and purchasing these productsthrough their app and I'd be
concerned about security,especially if I have a lot
invested.
I mean, like someone can justdownload the River app and then
they just start buying Bitcoin.
(44:19):
I kind of played around with itand I and I that's how that's
where I have my Bitcoin rightnow, you know, um, and then
there's other, these other appslike a poll crack in best wallet
where people buy these othercurrencies, and I mean, what's
your thoughts about that?
Is that really a secure way tohave your investments?
(44:41):
Or is there some better advicethat we can give folks if they
want to get into this andanother, more secure way of
doing that, or a more effectiveway than just having everything
on your phone?
That part's a little scary tome.
Speaker 2 (44:56):
For anyone who wants to invest in Bitcoin, the
decision that they will have tomake is whether they want to
take responsibility for thesecure custody of their Bitcoin
or whether they want tooutsource that to a trusted
custodian, and there'strade-offs to both.
But in the case where they arerelying on a trusted custodian
(45:17):
because they don't want to takeresponsibility for keeping their
Bitcoin safe, it's important toevaluate what the legal nature
of the relationship is betweenyou and the counterparty or the
custodian.
So in the case of Kraken,coinbase, different things like
that those are what are commonlyreferred to as crypto exchanges
(45:37):
.
Different things like thatthose are what are commonly
referred to as crypto exchanges,and we have seen over the last
decade multiple times.
Crypto exchanges fail, gobankrupt and result in the
permanent loss of at least someof the assets of their account
holders.
As Bitcoin has matured andembedded itself deeper into the
financial system, there are nowways to outsource custody to a
(45:57):
qualified custodian, and that isheld to a different legal and
fiduciary standard, as opposedto a domestic US-based crypto
exchange or, especially, anon-US-based crypto exchange,
which is where the majority ofthe issues over the last five
years have come from.
Speaker 1 (46:16):
So is Orange Horizon.
Is that a custodian of Bitcoin?
I mean, is that what you is?
That can be part of what you're.
Speaker 2 (46:24):
We use Swan Bitcoin.
They have a platform forfinancial advisors through a
company called BitGo thatfunctions as the qualified
custodian.
So we don't custody clientBitcoin.
There's something called theprivate key that is essential to
security.
That's what allows you to signtransactions on the Bitcoin
(46:47):
network.
We don't have access to that.
We couldn't, even if we tried.
So in that security model, eachpiece of the security is
segmented out to those who areoptimized to do it best.
Speaker 1 (47:01):
So would it be better , if you're really getting
heavily invested in Bitcoin andyou want to do that, would it be
better to do that than someonejust to have it on the River app
on their phone?
Speaker 2 (47:13):
Would it be better for them to do what as opposed
to the River app?
Speaker 1 (47:16):
You just explained the custodian part of it.
So I mean, is it better to tohave it in that that type of a
custodial situation, versus mejust happening on my on my cell
phone through the river app?
And broadly speaking.
You answer that.
Speaker 2 (47:35):
I mean, it's just it's kind of like you know, hey,
matt, what's the bestinvestment?
Well, it depends.
And so the answer is going tobe similar there.
Where there is no universalbest solution, everything
requires trade off.
So it it just depends on thesituation of that particular
person and and we try to helpthem make that decision.
Speaker 1 (47:58):
but for any one person it might make sense to
leave it on river, it might makesense to withdraw it, it might
make sense to do something elseI'm just coming at this totally
out of my lane, trying tounderstand it and trying to
maybe uh, help through you guys,people to just understand a
little bit more who might be inthe same position.
I am hopefully more who mightbe in the same position.
(48:18):
I am Hopefully maybe they'renot in the same position.
I am from a knowledgestandpoint, but just trying to
bring some light to it.
I guess you could share alittle bit how Bitcoin's value
has gone up and and why so farit, it appears, has been a
(48:41):
really good investment so far.
Can we is that?
Can we have that discussion, isyou?
know, because I think that waspart of your article.
I read, where you know, we havethese, these, these gross
little fall, but then it goesback up again.
I mean, I think you that was inthe article that you had
written that you shared with me.
Speaker 2 (48:59):
Yeah, I'll start that and then let Brett add anything
he wants to.
If you look at Bitcoin over thelast five, ten years, depending
on the specific range, theaverage annualized rate of
return is somewhere around 50 to60 percent, and Brett alluded
to the rule of 72.
And over the long term, thatmeans your money is doubling, on
(49:21):
average every year and a halfor so.
So over the last decade,bitcoin has dramatically
outperformed the stock market.
It's outperformed bonds, it'soutperformed gold, it's
outperformed real estate, it'soutperformed every other major
asset class in the world.
But along with that, which istypical that the more an asset
grows over the long term, themore volatility it experiences
(49:42):
along the way.
And in that regard, bitcoin's noexception where, if you look at
the last five years or so, acouple of years ago Bitcoin
peaked at around $69,000.
And then, over the course ofabout the next year, it drew
down all the way to 16,000.
And then it moved up and it hitan all-time high of around
(50:03):
109,000.
And now we're currently sittingat 85,000 last I checked.
Yeah, so those are the twomajor components.
For someone who might want toown some of it is that, at at
least so far in its existence,it has massively outperformed
other assets that you might wantto look at, but it also has a
(50:25):
much higher corresponding levelof volatility in 2009.
Speaker 3 (50:39):
And one of our good friends, dante Cook, who does
some work for Vista InvestmentPartners and is well known on
social media for his commentsabout Bitcoin, makes a good
point that Bitcoin is as old oras a year younger than the
iPhone.
And if you start thinking aboutthe different technologies that
we use now that have come intoexistence, many of them are
digital in nature, and Bitcoinis no different it's digital
(51:00):
money.
So if you start thinking aboutusing Amazon, if you start
thinking about using any of themagnificent seven stocks that
I'm not going to name, most ofthe products are digital.
Last time I needed a ridesomewhere in a major
metropolitan area, I used Uber.
Uber is an app on my phone thatdidn't exist 15 years ago, and
(51:20):
so you start looking at thedigital transformation of things
in our world and you start torealize, hey, this is just
another evolution We've beenusing, you know, dollar bills.
You know, very rarely do you goanywhere now and not pull out a
Visa or MasterCard.
You hardly ever see cashanymore, and so the speed and
the adoption of digital money,in my opinion, is going to
(51:45):
continue to be adopted over thenext five years, and we're going
to see a financial revolutionin terms of speed of how money
transacts over the next fiveyears, because of these, we're
moving from analog payment railsto digital payment rails.
Right, I mean what's?
Speaker 1 (52:03):
I mean credit cards are.
Isn't that?
That's digital money?
Speaker 2 (52:08):
That's a.
That's a good question.
Technically it is digitalcredit and that cause that's a
common question of you knowBitcoin's digital money.
That doesn't sound all thatrevolutionary because, after all
, don't we already have digitalmoney?
Ninety percent of US dollarsdon't exist in physical form,
they exist only in the ledgersof a trusted bank computer.
(52:31):
But what we've really had isnot digital money, because, from
an economic sense, money is abearer asset.
Delivery of money constitutesfinal settlement of an economic
transaction, and that is not thecase.
That is not what happens whenyou send someone a Venmo or a
Zelle payment or a credit cardtransaction where the payment
(52:53):
seemingly occurs instantaneously, but settlement of that payment
occurs weeks or even monthsafter the fact.
And because of that, there areinefficient layers of
counterparty risk, credit riskon top of that.
And that costs money where welook at you know why do credit
cards charge merchants 3 percent?
It's not because they're greedy, it's because that's about how
(53:15):
much it costs for them to renderthat service.
So, as Brett was alluding to,one of the unique aspects of
Bitcoin is that it's digital,but it's also a bearer asset.
It can be sent at the speed oflight anywhere in the world and
it settles with cash finalityand that opens up an array of
different potential paymenttechnologies on the back of a
(53:37):
digital bearer asset.
So we're just starting to seethat play out.
It'll take some time but, likeBrad, I'm excited to see that.
Speaker 1 (53:45):
So we'll probably have a debit card it probably
exists, but tell how naive I ambut a debit card that is tied
into your Bitcoin account, youjust pay everything through that
.
Speaker 2 (54:02):
Those exist.
Speaker 1 (54:03):
For anything and everything.
Speaker 2 (54:06):
Mm-hmm, it works like a debit card.
Speaker 1 (54:09):
Do you think that are people commonly using that
today?
Speaker 2 (54:14):
As a percentage of the US population absolutely not
.
Speaker 1 (54:16):
How about a percentage of Bitcoin US
population?
Absolutely not.
How about a percentage ofBitcoin owners?
Speaker 2 (54:19):
Somewhat, I'd say most Bitcoin owners.
One way I think about Bitcoin,where, if you look at you know I
alluded to the fact that the USdollar bleeds purchasing power
every year, but we are in aprivileged position where,
relative to other fiatcurrencies, the dollar is the
(54:39):
best.
And if you look at countries orjurisdictions with very high
inflation problems, it's verycommon they will use two forms
of money One is a medium ofexchange and one is a savings
vehicle or a store of value.
So, in a case where you live inVenezuela, you may get paid in
their currency, all your billsmay be denominated in that, but
(55:01):
you don't want to store yourwealth in that currency.
Typically, they want to storetheir wealth in the US dollar,
and so, for most Bitcoiners inthe US, that's how they
primarily use Bitcoin as asavings vehicle, because,
despite some of theinefficiencies and things you
know, room for disruption thatwe think there is for Bitcoin
(55:22):
for most people most of the time, current legacy payment
technologies work pretty well,and so the demand to spend
Bitcoin, as you would expect,lags behind the demand to hold
it for the long term.
Speaker 1 (55:39):
So, as we begin to kind of wrap this up, two
different things I'll ask youguys.
Number one is there anythingthat we need to clarify, that
I've muddied up in thisconversation, or anything do you
think would be pertinent toshare with our followers?
Speaker 3 (55:52):
we have done a deep dive company-wide on Bitcoin as
an asset class.
We've also done a deep dive inour opinion on the other
cryptocurrencies that you'vementioned, but we do not believe
in recommending or owning thoseother cryptocurrencies.
We believe they have inherentproblems, which we'd be happy to
(56:12):
discuss in a privateconversation, but I wanted to
make that clear that that is theonly cryptocurrency that we
currently and will ever offer.
Speaker 2 (56:23):
Yeah, and I'd like to just double down on Brett's
point, because it's an importantone and, in my opinion, it is
the biggest source of confusionfor investors when it comes to
Bitcoin is well, what are allthese other crypto assets?
And, to try to briefly explainthe difference, we view them.
You know they're all typicallylumped in as cryptocurrencies
(56:45):
and, in a sense, you can putthem all in that category, but
we believe Bitcoin is a categoryof one and non-Bitcoin crypto
is a different thing.
Okay, um so, yeah, just try tomake that clear because,
unfortunately, oftentimessomeone gets introduced to
bitcoin and then you know, a fewmonths later they're buying uh,
you know, yo-yo token.
Speaker 1 (57:06):
they've lost 90 of their money, um so, well, I'll
see if this is a proper analogy.
Is it kind of getting in theseother ones, likened to people
that buy penny stocks orwhatever?
Is that fair?
Speaker 2 (57:21):
In some ways yeah, the way I describe it is Bitcoin
was a technological innovation,primarily because it was a
digital form of money beyond thecontrol of any one party.
So there is no government,there is no corporation
organization that has unilateralcontrol over the Bitcoin ledger
(57:42):
.
The Bitcoin ledger is updatedthrough the unfakable
expenditure of real world energyin a process called Bitcoin
mining that anyone in the worldcan participate in and that
history shows is hard to capturethe majority supply of.
We've never seen a civilizationcapture, command, control over
50% of the Earth's surface,because that's tied to energy,
(58:05):
and a similar thing is true inthe Bitcoin network.
So that's the innovation ofBitcoin is a digital asset
without an issuer that functionswithout the unilateral control
of any one group.
For the most part, allnon-Bitcoin crypto projects
uninvented Bitcoin's innovationby reintroducing a trusted
(58:27):
ledger keeper that has theunilateral control authority to
make backwards incompatiblechanges to the ledger.
Sometimes that's a corporation,sometimes it's what they call a
DAO or decentralized autonomousorganization, sometimes it's a
nonprofit, but at the end of theday, somebody, somewhere or
some group, if they want, can dowhatever they want to that
(58:49):
monetary ledger.
So that's not to say that youcan't make money on them or
trade them, but that's primarilywhat we mean when we say they
use similar technologies asBitcoin in terms of encryption
and the ledger structure.
It's called blockchain, whichbecame a buzzword, but that does
not make them of the same kindof thing as Bitcoin.
(59:11):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (59:13):
That's good to know.
Okay, that's good to know.
If any of our followers areinterested in financial planning
services and want to talk toyou guys, what's the best way to
contact you or how should theystart that process?
Speaker 3 (59:28):
Our local phone number is 765-962-5153,.
Or you can get a hold of Mattor myself.
Or you can get a hold of Mattor myself, or I'll give my email
address brettguiley G-U-I-L-E-Yat vistainvestmentnet.
Speaker 2 (59:45):
Okay, and my email's mattgawlier at
vistainvestmentnet.
So M-A-T-T dot G-O-L-L-I-H-E-Rat vistainvestmentnet.
Speaker 1 (59:57):
So so you guys are gonna get swamped after this
podcast goes out and uh, what'sthat?
Just real quickly.
I, you know I want to getinvolved.
I'm, I'm interested in gettingstarted, whatever.
What's that kind of that firstmeeting going to look like for
me, if I call you guys?
Speaker 2 (01:00:15):
and what's?
Speaker 1 (01:00:16):
what should I be?
What should that look?
What's that going to look like?
Speaker 3 (01:00:20):
So typically, the first meeting that we have, we
set up and it's there's nodecisions that are going to be
made.
We just want to get to know aperson, get to know their goals
and objectives, tell you alittle bit about what our firm
offers, our history, and findout if there's a match there and
if there is great.
If not, then we'll arm you withsome information to go on your
(01:00:41):
way.
Speaker 1 (01:00:41):
Right, but you just kind of want to find out where
they're at and then that's goingto help you to be able to
advise them, give them wherethey are and what their goals
are in the long term.
And I alluded to earlier, itdoesn't really matter where
you're at in life.
It's not too late to try toconnect with you guys and get
(01:01:02):
something started.
Is that true?
Speaker 3 (01:01:05):
It's always better to start than not to start, and
most people take more timeplanning their annual vacation
than they do their finances.
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:01:13):
Well, I really appreciate you guys taking the
time to meet with us and enduremy questions today, but, brett
and Matt, thank you so much forcoming on.
We really appreciate it.
That's all for this episode ofthe Hub.
Thanks again for listening andwe'll see you next time for
another conversation with adifference maker from our region
(01:01:34):
.
Manpower is proud to supportthe hub.
Find out how they can supportyour business at MPRichmondcom.
Welcome to the Hub Podcast recorded right here in
Richmond, indiana.
I'm your host, michael Allen,and on the Hub, our mission is
to share stories of peoplemaking a difference in our
region.
In addition to hosting thepodcast, I work with a wonderful
team of staffing professionalsat Manpower.
Manpower is helping companiesall over East Central Indiana
find staffing so they cancontinue to grow and thrive.
(00:24):
Find out how we can help yourcompany at mprichmondcom.
With us on this episode of theHub is Brett Guiley and Matt
Goyer.
Both are with Vista InvestmentPartners here in Richmond
Indiana.
Brett and Matt, welcome to theHub.
Thank you, great to have youhere today I go to church with
one of your newer investmentpartners, jonathan Camps, and he
(00:47):
was super passionate aboutasking me to get you guys on the
hub.
He thought that what you had tosay was extremely important,
not for just promotional reasons, but just things about
investments and what we'll getinto cryptocurrency.
So and I was I'm glad we couldwork it out today and it's
(01:11):
always fun to have like tworeally bright guys on the hub
super smart guys, I don't knowabout that, but thanks.
But and I think the timing iskind of cool with some of the
stuff For our followers, youknow, you know um, you know
we're here in uh mid-april andsome things have been going on
with the market.
It's been kind of interestingand kind of got people worked up
(01:33):
a little bit.
So but before we get into that,I would like to start with uh
tradition we have here on thehub and I'm going to ask both
you guys, uh, what was your veryfirst job?
So I'm interested in employment.
You know, given that I'm in toask both you guys, uh, what was
your very first job?
So I'm interested in employment, you know, given that I'm in
the staffing industry andmanpower.
So, brett, we'll start with youon this one.
Speaker 3 (01:52):
So tell us about your first, very first job, where
you got a paycheck and how topay taxes so I grew up in rural
southern missouri, okay, and thetown that I went to high school
and was called farmington.
So that should give you a goodindication as to the type of
area I grew up in.
But the little suburb ofFarmington that I grew up in was
called Doe Run and one of myfriend's parents started a
(02:16):
restaurant called the PlantationHouse, and so I became a bus
boy and I remember the jobinterview.
I went in and the restaurantmanager and the cook asked me
well, how old are you?
And I said, well, I'm 15 and ahalf.
And they both thought that washilarious because I had to throw
the half in there.
So that was my first job.
Speaker 1 (02:35):
Yeah, so how much did you get paid?
Do you remember?
Speaker 3 (02:40):
Not very much, but what I didn't get paid I made up
for in eating food.
Speaker 1 (02:45):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
I had one of the restaurantjobs and to this day I'm still
carrying around weight from thatjob.
So how about you, matt?
Speaker 2 (02:53):
First official job with W-2 and taxes withheld and
everything.
I grew up in Cambridge City soI became a bag boy at Cutshall's
Grocery and I was there forabout two years, I think the
last couple of years of highschool, and I know it was
minimum wage, but I don't knowwhat that was at the time $5.25
(03:16):
maybe?
Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 1 (03:18):
I mean when I went to work fast food in my senior
year in high school, I minimumwage was like like two something
an hour.
It's like that doesn't seemlike a lot of money.
At least right now it doesn't.
But uh, yeah, so that's great.
I mean any.
Uh.
Speaker 3 (03:34):
When you look back at just doing those first jobs,
any any lessons learned, youthink just, even with the first
experiences, I saved my firstpaycheck and at the time this
was in the early 90s bought apair of guest jeans with the
entire paycheck and I look backon that and I'm thinking that
(03:57):
was ridiculous, but that was myfirst freedom purchase from my
folks and I think about that asstarting my entrepreneurial
journey that we're on now.
Speaker 2 (04:06):
Yeah, yeah, I would say you know I had quote unquote
jobs before making money,bailing hay, doing things like
that, but that was really thefirst job where I had consistent
income.
You know managing a bankaccount, so I somewhat consider
that job my foray into adultfinancial life.
And then you know everythingrelated to being on time.
(04:29):
You know everything you have todo to have a job for two, two
and a half years, right, right.
Speaker 1 (04:35):
Well, it seems like my memory that I have the most
is I would just blow through themoney.
Memory that I have the most isI would just blow through the
money.
So it was been a lesson I'vetried to pass on to my kids, not
not to do that so that.
That was, I guess, one of myfirst lessons learned on a
(04:58):
personal level.
So what, uh what, contributedto each of you seeking a career
in investment?
I remember planning.
Speaker 3 (05:05):
Yeah, I remember always being interested in
markets.
Um, like many young boys andgirls my age, I started out
collecting baseball cards andgot the pricing guides and learn
things can go up and down invalue and, uh, quickly developed
an interest in the stock market.
Um, I was fortunate to savesome money, probably from one of
(05:25):
those jobs that I had early on,and invested $250 in a mutual
fund right before the stockmarket dropped in 1987.
And that was my firstinvestment.
So I would call up a 1-800number and listen to type in my
account number and listen to thevalue every week and I would
keep track of it on a yellow pad.
And my, my sisters remember medoing this and they even brought
(05:49):
it up this weekend when I sawthem and and so I left that in
there and to for about 12 yearsand then sold that to buy my my
now wife's wedding ring.
So that was my first foray thatI thought, well, maybe I'm
pretty good at this.
Speaker 1 (06:03):
Yeah, that's cool, I mean, and you were how old.
Speaker 3 (06:06):
At that point I would have been probably about 10 or
11.
Wow.
Speaker 1 (06:10):
Wow, that's amazing.
Speaker 2 (06:13):
How about you, matt?
Somewhat similar.
I went to Indiana University inBloomington and I spent the
first couple of years therereally having no idea what I
wanted to do for a living.
But during my junior year Istarted taking more finance
oriented classes and I'd alwaysbeen interested, even before
that, in economics and I'd donea lot of reading on my own time,
(06:35):
and so the last half of myundergrad was more finance
focused in terms of my classload, and I found an opportunity
at West Point in Indianapolis.
That was my first job out ofcollege and I was fortunate
enough that I liked it enoughthat I decided that's what I
(06:55):
wanted to do with my turn myliving.
So it's been an interestingjourney.
You know, as a financialadvisor in multiple capacities
for different types of firms,I've seen some different angles
of the industry, but that's howI got.
That's how I got started.
Speaker 1 (07:11):
I was lucky that it worked out so, if I'm hearing
correctly, both of you wentright into it right away as your
career.
So how was it?
I want to go back in a minuteand ask you a little bit about
your personal history.
But how was that being a youngperson trying to advise people
(07:35):
on on financial planning andinvestments when, just by,
you're just like your young guy?
So I mean, I would think if youcould run across some potential
clients to say, well, what doyou know?
You haven't been around longenough to even know, know this
business, and so how did you runacross that?
Or or how did you manage that?
(07:57):
Is that a fair question?
Or?
Speaker 2 (07:59):
yeah, I think so I'll start.
Um, that was a recurring thingthat happened the first, I'd say
, five years of my career whereI graduated college, so I was 22
.
I looked like I was 15.
And I remember, after WestPoint, my next transition, I
decided to go to a bank program,first Merchants, and I remember
(08:23):
meeting a new potential clientfor the first time in the lobby
and walking to my office and ahandful of times one of the
first things they said to me ishow old are you?
Yeah, and so I had to work toearn the credibility.
And you know, I think for anyyoung professional there's a
degree of imposter syndrome, andI definitely had that.
(08:45):
You know who?
Who am I?
Some 20 something year old whopresumes to advise this
successful business owner onwhat to do with his million
dollar portfolio.
But just with time andexperience comes the conviction
that you know I am aknowledgeable professional and
this person could benefit frommy help.
It's their decision whetherthey want to take advantage of
(09:07):
that or not, and so over timethat just continually got better
.
But that was certainly adynamic early in my career, I'd
say.
Speaker 1 (09:15):
How about you, Brad?
Did you run into that any?
Speaker 3 (09:19):
Definitely so.
I started my career in 2000with Merrill Lynch as a trainee.
I started my career in 2000with Merrill Lynch as a trainee.
And when you do that you don'trealize that when you're coming
out of you know, I came out ofan undergraduate education where
I had a lot of business coursesand graduated the business
degree.
That doesn't necessarilyqualify you to be a financial
(09:39):
advisor.
So you have to take all sortsof industry tests and that still
doesn't qualify you to handlesome of these money.
So you have to take all sortsof industry tests and that still
doesn't qualify you to handlesome of these money.
And I remember early in mycareer there being a bullpen in
Dayton of advisors that weresome of them mid-career, that
were making a career transitionand this is in the tech bubble
(09:59):
days who had come out ofWright-Patt Air Force Base and
was in his 50s, telling somebodyI think this stock is a good
value and he said the price andmy mouth fell open because I
couldn't believe that.
You know that was good adviceand in fact it wasn't.
And then the market took thefirst tumble of my career.
So I definitely had thatsyndrome where I shouldn't be
(10:21):
here.
And you know people didn'tnecessarily trust me right away,
so it took I would say eight to10 years before I gained enough
confidence and enough umbusiness acumen to where it was
like I've seen this before.
Speaker 1 (10:36):
You can trust me, mm-hmm.
So that makes it, uh, you knowthat's that's a long period of
time to try to get you know, getyour your groove in the end and
I'm sure with that you know thethe income isn't what.
Maybe you wanted it to be earlyon than what it is.
(10:56):
You know you get later in yourcareers or whatever.
I'm sure there's maybe acorrelation there a little bit,
I think.
So, yeah, so one thing that Iwanted is to go back on and
you've shared a little bit of it.
But, um, maybe, matt, we canstart with you.
Just share a little bit for ourfollowers.
You know a little aboutyourself growing up and just
(11:18):
kind of your some of yourpersonal story yeah, so I think
I mentioned previously I grew upon a farm in Cambridge city.
Speaker 2 (11:25):
Uh, I'm a triplet, so uh, matt, dan and Joe are our
names, and then I have fiveolder half siblings, so big farm
family.
There's a lot of Goliardsrunning around Wayne County.
Uh went to Hagerstown forelementary high school
everything like that playedfootball, ran track.
Uh went to IU for collegeu forcollege, and uh, I'd say my
(11:45):
biggest hobby is probablyreading.
I've always been an obsessivereader, which, um, plays into
the story of my career a littlebit, which we may get into, but
I read that you gave me thisarticle to read and in that
article I remember you.
Speaker 1 (12:00):
you mentioned reading a lot of books on the topic of
cryptocurrency and Bitcoin, sowe can touch on that a little
bit later.
How about you?
Speaker 3 (12:13):
The short version is as I mentioned, I'm originally
from Missouri, went to theUniversity of Evansville and
that's where I was fortunateenough to meet Shannon Van Vliet
, who I've been married to for25 years, in June, and we have
three children Jack, lauren andAddison.
All three are not young anymore22, 20, and 18.
(12:34):
And Jack is getting ready tograduate with an economics
degree from DePaul.
Lauren is studying occupationaltherapy at St Louis University
in Missouri, close to where myfamily is from, and Addison is a
senior at Eaton High School inMissouri, close to where my
family is from.
And Addison is a senior atEaton High School in Ohio and
going to be studying speechtherapy at Western Kentucky
University.
(12:54):
And I've been fortunate enoughto become a business owner, own
Vista Investment Partners andhave a great team of people that
work with me.
And then we also, inconjunction with Matt, launched
Orange Horizon Wealth which wecan get into a little bit later,
which is a subsidiary of VistaInvestment Partners, and we
started that last May.
Speaker 1 (13:14):
Okay, All right.
So how long has Vista been yourcompany?
How long have you?
What year did you start?
Speaker 3 (13:22):
So, as I mentioned, I started my career in 2000.
In 2006, we moved to RaymondJames from Merrill Lynch, and
Raymond James gives you theflexibility with your career
that if, at any point, you don'twant to become, you don't want
to be an employee advisor, butyou want to be an independent
advisor with them, you can dothat.
Speaker 1 (13:40):
So in 2018, we pivoted our business and became
an independent division ofraymond james and named our llc
vista investment partners okay,investing money is pretty scary
for people because they'reafraid they might lose it and uh
, but I don't think stuffing itin a mattress is probably a
(14:04):
productive method of savings.
And so how do we kind of getstarted in that?
You know, as far as investmentstrategies and why it's
important to be thinking aboutthat, I've known people that are
(14:25):
just totally terrified to putanything in investment, so they
just hold on to their cash andthey've just had it in pretty
low-yielding savings accountswhich probably aren't even
barely keeping up with the rateof inflation, maybe even under
that, I don't know.
So I don't know where welaunching is for this discussion
(14:48):
.
But, um, you know it, where dowe get started?
Is it ever too late?
Is it ever too early?
I think the answer is probablyno, it's not.
But, uh, how can we start thatconversation about?
Just about getting started inthat and what you should, what
people should, be thinking about, I guess yeah yeah, I.
Speaker 2 (15:10):
The first point I would make is that in the
current monetary system thatwe've all grown up in for the
last 50 some odd years, thechallenge for investors is that
investing is not optionalbecause the currency loses
purchasing power every year.
Where, in a scenario where youcould just save money, that
allows you the luxury of sittingback and only making an
(15:32):
investment if and when youdecide that that's a prudent
thing to do.
And in cases like that, youtend to only invest your money
or deploy your money at risk ininvestment ventures that you
have a deep level of knowledgein and where you trust and know
the people involved.
That's not the case currently,where you know.
(15:53):
The other point is that thereis no, because you mentioned
that people are scared to investin the stock market because
it's risky, but there is norisk-free thing you can do with
your money.
You know, if you had $100,000and you did put that in the
proverbial mattress, 10 yearslater, let's say, we have an
inflationary decade and theprice of everything is doubled,
(16:20):
and so you lift up your mattress.
You look, all of your $100bills are still there.
So two things are true at thesame time you didn't lose any
money and you lost half yourmoney.
Or, more precisely, you didn'tlose any currency, but you lost
half your money.
Or, more precisely, you didn'tlose any currency, but you lost
half your purchasing power.
So a big part of what we do forclients is try to help them
strike the smartest balancebetween market volatility risk
and currency debasement risk,and that's where I like to start
(16:42):
the framework for investing.
Speaker 1 (16:47):
As far as I had talked to guys a little bit
before today and we had I kindof unscientific range, but I was
thinking about, you know, maybeage 20 to 30.
I mean, you were 10 years old.
I don't think that's the norm,but maybe, like I'm thinking, 20
(17:08):
to 35, 35 to 50, 50 to 65, andthen 65 and older.
I mean I don't know.
Surely there's different thingsthat you look at based upon
where a person is in their timeof life.
I mean, what about thosedifferent ranges?
And as far as advising peoplequestions, you may ask those
(17:32):
folks, as far as you know, readyto make some investments at
those different stages.
I mean they may be starting atone stage and as they go on, you
make changes to their portfolio.
So, what's some of the startingpoints for younger investors
maybe who started there?
Speaker 3 (17:52):
When we talk to somebody for the first time, we
talk about critical financialevents, and that's a key term
for anything where money isinvolved.
So that could be retirement,that could be loss of a loved
one, an inheritance, a jobchange, a special purchase or
the first purchase of a home, orplanning for college, those
(18:13):
types of things.
So once we establish what weare saving and investing for,
then we can start a plan as towhy we're going to use those
capital dollars and put them atrisk.
As Matt said, and typically theyounger a person is, the more
time they have for that money togrow there's a rule in finance
(18:34):
we call the rule of 72, whichwe'll talk about a lot of times,
and that means that if you'reable to get 10% return on your
investments generally speaking,10% a year, generally speaking
your money should double every7.2 years.
And so if you think of yourlife and in your investing
(18:56):
lifestyle in terms of seven to10 year increments, you can
start to plan out.
Okay, if you put money to workin your twenties, how many 7.2
year periods do you have untilyou're going to need the money,
potentially at retirement?
And so then, doing a good jobof assessing somebody's risk
tolerance, you know.
(19:16):
If they're going to panic whenthe market's down 10%, we might
go ahead and reduce the risk inthe portfolio by adding more
other asset classes, such asbonds, cash, money markets, cds,
treasuries, things like that,where, if they can stomach those
10% volatility up and down or20%, you know we're going to
(19:38):
have more at-risk assets such asthe stock market.
The stock market, you know,roughly averages 10% a year.
So when a person's in their 20sthey might be able to stomach
100% of their money in the stockmarket going up and down.
If they're 65, 75, 85, they maynot want that risk because they
may have designs on what theyneed the money for, either to
(20:02):
help supplement retirementincome, to leave a legacy to
pass on to the next generation.
Speaker 1 (20:10):
I'm sure you've met with potential clients and you
know they want to do something.
But they come in they say, orsomeone talks to you and say I
really don't have any money thatI can invest.
So I mean, how do you show themthat maybe they do?
I mean, I'm sure, because, well, I got this house payment, I'm
(20:30):
trying to get this car paymentand I got you know, and uh.
So I think a lot of peoplecould sit there and look and
like I don't have I can't I mean, I know I need to invest, but I
really can't based on what Isee.
Do you, do you haveconversations like that with
people?
Speaker 2 (20:46):
Yeah, and it's fairly common, I would say, for
clients to ask us to meet withtheir children, their young
adult children, when they'rejust getting started, and so
that's a fairly commonconversation that both of us
have had.
For a younger investor who'sthinking about starting to
invest and I think about that,for the phrase I use is
(21:07):
investing from a strongfoundation where the first thing
I like to see is that they havean adequate emergency fund and
rule of thumb.
You'll often hear three to sixmonths of expenses, but the
actual amount of money variesjust based on the person.
But the critical point is thatwhen investors you know a young
(21:27):
investor they get their firstjob where they're earning, you
know their first real paycheckand they're considering starting
to invest some of that money.
If they do that without firstbuilding up some sort of savings
, then the very likely result isthat they're not going to be
able to invest that money forthe long term.
They're going to have to sellit if and when they need it, and
(21:48):
they may not have a good pricewhen they sell that.
So as long as they have somesavings, then they're in a
position where they could start$50 a month.
They could open an IRA or abrokerage account and you can
start investing.
You don't need, you know, ahundred thousand dollars to
(22:09):
start making investments.
You can do it slowly, over time, and that's that's the most
important thing is just beingconsistent and having your money
invested in the market andbeing in a position where you're
not going to have to be aforced seller of your long-term
investment.
Speaker 1 (22:24):
So what are some of the key factors that you
consider with clients beforemaking investments?
What are some of the things Imean?
You kind of hit on it, I think,but is there any more that we
can?
Elaborate in that area.
Speaker 3 (22:38):
We try to do a good job of getting to know the
person first, getting to knowtheir investing history, if they
do have one, and what they didemotionally when the last
downturn came.
Did they have to pull money out?
Did they have an unfortunateevent that caused them to have
to spend it all?
Do they have a scarcitymentality with their money or an
(23:02):
abundant mentality?
Are they a giver?
Are they a saver?
It's really important on thefront end that we interview them
before we ever make aninvestment recommendation.
So that, to me, is the key to astarting foundation.
And back to kind of the youngperson.
It can be very daunting to say,oh, I have to save all this
(23:24):
money, hopefully for the rainyday for retirement, wanting to
say, oh, I have to save all thismoney, hopefully for the rainy
day for retirement.
In some ways it's like amortgage in reverse, though.
You pay off a mortgage you knowmany times, traditionally 30
years every month for 30 years,360 payments, and that seems
very daunting at the beginning.
But after a while you kind ofget it on autopilot and you
(23:45):
don't even think about it andall of a sudden, sudden,
hopefully, the home's paid off.
Same way with investing you canstart and just auto
automatically commit to anamount.
All of a sudden you wake up oneday in the market which is
still the greatest wealthcreator in the universe, in my
opinion, the stock market.
All of a sudden you have a nicelittle nest egg, hopefully,
sure mortgages are tough becauseyou end up paying a lot for
(24:10):
your house.
Speaker 1 (24:13):
Do you have conversations with clients about
alternatives to mortgages?
I mean, is that even the thingthat comes up in your
conversations, or not?
Speaker 2 (24:22):
Yeah, I would say one common thing that comes up is a
client has a mortgage and thenthey have, you know, windfall of
money, whether that's aninheritance or something else.
And it's a very common problemwe help clients with is helping
them weigh the consideration ondo I pay off my mortgage or do I
invest the money.
And I'll commonly give twoanswers where, on paper,
(24:45):
mathematically, if you caninvest money, where you're
confident that your long-termrate of return is higher than
the interest rate on themortgage, then on paper it makes
sense to invest the extra money.
But I also try to acknowledgethat there's a value to owning a
home, free and clear, that doesnot show up on a spreadsheet,
so it's not, you know, for thatclient.
(25:07):
It's a balance of thoseconsiderations and we help them
weigh that and try to make thebest decision on that.
Unfortunately, especially foryoung people who wish to acquire
a home, if they want to do itbefore they're 40 or 50, for a
lot of people there is noalternative to getting a
mortgage.
That's kind of how the systemworks.
Speaker 1 (25:30):
It was maybe different when the rates were
lower than they are now.
I mean, the last time that Igot a mortgage the rate was
under 3%.
That seems like free moneytoday.
Maybe in some ways it is so nowto pay.
(25:53):
You know what was even higher?
I think right now the rates are6% to 7%.
So that makes it tough to thinkabout paying that much interest
when we were had a really longperiod of time where the rates
were really very low.
Do you think we'll ever get tothose kinds of numbers again?
Speaker 3 (26:18):
I personally think there's a possibility.
We will.
Speaker 1 (26:20):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (26:21):
I think we, you know, that kind of goes into our
economic thesis, which which I,I can tell Matt wants to weigh
in on, as to where we are in theinterest rate cycle and where
we could potentially go yeah, soour talk today.
Speaker 1 (26:36):
We're not really in a situation where we can be
telling people a lot ofspecifics about what they should
do with their money today.
That's not part of what we cando today, correct?
So I'm trying to ask questionswhere we don't get into super
specifics.
Um, how do economic indicatorsinfluence decisions with your
(27:02):
clients?
Uh, you know, recently, um,there's a little president trump
had put all these tariffs onand then the stock market didn't
like that at all and I'm surethat, um, people were getting
like maybe super nervous umabout that.
I mean, what were those kind of?
(27:22):
How do you, what are thoseconversations like, if you can
share, or or how do you, how doyou discuss those with your
clients to try to bring them atease and not have them just
freak out and want to?
Speaker 2 (27:33):
just sell everything.
Yeah, I would say in general foreconomic indicators, the main
part of our job is encouragingclients to take a long-term view
, because in any given yearthere's going to be scary things
that happen and at the time youknow if it's the story of that
news cycle.
(27:53):
It may seem like the end of theworld, but ultimately you zoom
out and you're not even going toremember what that thing was
you were so worried about fiveor 10 years ago.
And you zoom out and look atthe stock market and, although
there is volatility, you'll findthat, especially over the last
50 years in modern equitiesmarkets, the stock market has
(28:14):
climbed a wall of worry andthat's how it generates the
return, where volatility is theprice we pay for that 10% or so
average return.
So economic factors andindicators are definitely
something we look at, but it'snot something that we want
clients to be making theirinvestment decisions on most of
the time and we we encouragethem to think through it that
(28:37):
way as well.
Speaker 1 (28:40):
What are some of the common mistakes that that
investors make?
I mean there's some do's anddon'ts that you try to encourage
your clients not to do whenthey come to you.
I mean one of them, I think, islook toward the long-term.
You just said that, but isthere any other things along
that realm?
Speaker 3 (29:01):
There are definitely exceptions to the rule, but
people will always tell youabout their winners in the stock
market and never their losers.
I've never met a day trader sofar that's still day trading six
months or a year later becauseit's tough.
And it's tough to have theintestinal fortitude to be able
to sell when everything says youshouldn't sell, and vice versa.
(29:25):
So holding on to your positionsthat you have conviction in in
the face of volatility is adifficult thing.
People want to sell becausethat's the emotional response
that they have and that'sbehavioral finance.
When things like the marketvolatility spikes up because of
(29:46):
tariff news.
The market volatility spikes upbecause of tariff news.
Speaker 1 (29:57):
So pulling things out early, I think is probably the
biggest one that we counselpeople on and hold their hand on
the most.
There are some stocks that arereally good about paying
dividends and some that aren't.
Why is there a difference there?
What's?
What's the difference that onethat would be considered a one
that pays well with dividendsand one doesn't is that?
(30:17):
Is that a dumb question, or Idon't think so.
Speaker 2 (30:19):
I don't know if the in general, you know the
dividend paying stocks are goingto be the more established
companies.
Non-dividend paying stockstypically are more growth
oriented or in earlier stages oftheir business life cycle.
So if you think about you knowif you're in charge of a company
, you have a fiduciary duty tomaximize value for your
(30:41):
shareholders.
So when shareholders give youmoney, your job is to earn them
a rate of return and for thatbusiness, the question that they
have is for the cash that theyhave, is there a productive way
to deploy that in order togenerate a return for
shareholders?
Growing the business, upgradingequipment, whatever that may be
(31:02):
, and to the extent that thereis, those companies typically,
rather than paying out cash viadividend to shareholders, will
reinvest that money in thecompany to grow faster.
In a case where there aren'tthose opportunities to grow, the
prudent thing to do as afiduciary or one of them, is to
give the cash back to theshareholders and that's what we
(31:22):
call a dividend.
Speaker 3 (31:25):
I would just add to that one of the strategies and
items that I look at forcompanies that pay dividends is
how frequently do they increasethat dividend?
And the sign of a healthycompany is if they raise their
dividend regularly.
So at minimum, what I'm lookingfor is three times out of the
last five years have theyincreased their earnings and
(31:46):
have they increased theirdividend that they're paying
back to their shareholders?
Speaker 1 (31:54):
Is it?
I don't know if I can ask thisquestion, if you're allowed to
answer it.
Is it typically wise to goahead and, if you get those
dividends, just have itreinvested in that stock?
So you really don't see it andnow you're just you're keeping
increasing your amount of stockthat you own in that company.
Is that, is that a fairly goodpractice to have, or is that
(32:15):
something that we can talk about?
Speaker 3 (32:16):
Depending on where you are in your investor life
cycle.
If you're in your twenties,thirties, forties, fifties and
you're not needing distributions, absolutely reinvesting, it
makes sense.
But it might be a meaningfulpiece of your retirement
equation to take those dividendsas cash flow when you retire.
Speaker 1 (32:35):
Okay, all right, in your line of business.
I mean, sometimes I see thesecommercials and they're like uh
as far as uh in the investmentworld and and sometimes they
make villains out of investorsfor making money.
(32:56):
But I mean you can't do it forfree.
So I mean, so how, how are youguys typically, where's your?
Where do your?
How do you make money at whatyou do?
At the same time, you know, belooking out for your, your, um,
your client's best interest.
I mean cause that.
I mean that just doesn't applyto you guys.
(33:18):
Um, I mean um, any businessowner.
You're not going to be inbusiness if you don't have a way
to earn money for yourself.
I mean at all.
But how, how does that work?
Does that work?
I mean, I just see, it seemslike I see that theme in in in
the investment world, maybe morethan others, as far as the way
(33:39):
that um advertising after theyuse advertising to try to say,
well, you work with us becausewe don't really take any of your
money in and this other guy'sjust trying to graft you.
So I mean, if you don't mindsharing that a little bit, how
that works.
Speaker 3 (33:53):
This is a good question and one that we get
quite a bit In our business.
We are considered a hybridregistered investment advisory
firm.
Well, what's the hybrid partmean?
Well, we're actually registeredwith two different entities
FINRA, which we work with, abroker dealer, and so that's our
traditional business, wherepeople call us up and they say,
(34:15):
hey, I want to own X one.
Also in the broker dealer, wecan offer a suite of various
insurance based products, suchas life insurance and annuities.
So that that is one section ofour business and we will
definitely tell people that weare working with them as a
broker at that point.
Another side of our business isour registered investment
(34:36):
advisory business governed bythe Securities Exchange
Commission, and that istypically a negotiated
management fee based on theassets under management and the
strategies that we employ forclients.
Speaker 1 (34:48):
Okay, the good answer , the.
I had something I was going toask you, maybe to come back to
me, but I guess I want to moveon to kind of what's more of an
interesting or hot topic todayas far as Bitcoin,
cryptocurrency.
So for those that maybe don'tunderstand, I mean, what is
(35:11):
cryptocurrency and even,furthermore, what's the
difference between Bitcoin andother cryptocurrencies?
It's kind of a wide question,but I'll try to do a speed run
on it and start there.
Speaker 2 (35:23):
So in 2009, a digital monetary protocol called
Bitcoin was released by someoneor a group of people named
Satoshi Nakamoto.
No one knows what he, she orthey real identity is, but it
was recognized by very fewpeople as significant and
(35:44):
important.
It had no monetary valuewhatsoever.
There were websites where youcould go on and solve a CAPTCHA
and it would give you fiveBitcoin, which today would be
worth $400,000.
So it started its life as afringe experiment in monetary
technology.
But the reason it wassignificant is and I alluded to
this before where, for thousandsof years, gold was the
(36:08):
preeminent monetary standard,and the biggest reason for that
is that it was the commoditythat, in all of human history,
we could find that was hardestto inflate.
The supply of everyone in theworld decided gold was the best
money, but because it resistedinflation the most, it just was
(36:32):
the case that those who storedtheir wealth in gold kept their
wealth.
Those who stored it in inferiorassets over time lost their
wealth.
The problem is, with the advanceof telecommunication
technologies like the telegraphand the telephone at the turn of
the 19th century, we were ableto send payment information at
the speed of light around theworld, but gold can't move that
fast.
So the global monetary systemevolved, where you deposited
(36:57):
your gold with a trustedintermediary and you exchanged
IOUs for gold, which can be sentat the speed of light across
telecommunication lines.
The problem with that is, ifyou want to inflate the gold
supply, it costs energy to dothat and there is no way around
that cost.
It costs nothing to inflate thesupply of IOUs on gold.
(37:17):
So, predictably, the supply ofIOUs grew beyond the amount of
actual gold that was there andevery central bank in the world
defaulted on its promise toredeem its currency for gold.
What Bitcoin does is itintroduces the same scarcity
that's enforced by the unfakableexpenditure of real world
(37:39):
energy in a digital asset.
So it is gold that can be sentacross telecommunication
channels and that's why it's aninnovation.
Speaker 1 (37:47):
I mean, if you bought gold today, though, you
wouldn't they wouldn't send youbars of gold to your house,
right, I mean, or maybe I get it.
Who's the Senator orCongressman that had all the
gold in his house?
Speaker 2 (38:00):
Oh, I forget the one who got in trouble.
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (38:03):
But uh, I mean, but, uh, I mean, but some people do
buy that, but it's just isn't,it's just held somewhere and I
don't know.
I mean, I see advertisementsall the time.
People want you to buy gold.
Still to this day with um.
Speaker 2 (38:17):
With gold or bitcoin.
Um owners can choose to custodyit themselves, in which they're
responsible for it, or they canoutsource that to a trusted
custodian so back to um, inwhich they're responsible for it
, or they can outsource that toa trusted custodian.
Speaker 1 (38:33):
So back to Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies.
So we have Bitcoin, but then wehave all these other currencies
out there that people arebuying, and it's all kinds of
prices and whatever.
I mean you guys are primarilyor only into Bitcoin.
(38:54):
Is that right?
As far as financial advising,is that correct?
Only Bitcoin, okay, and that's.
I think that involves OrangeHorizon Wealth.
Is that part of?
you know the subsidiary of yourcompany.
So how, how do you I mean, ifpeople, how does that work?
(39:16):
I guess I'm trying to.
I'm at a loss of words becauseI don't know if I totally
understand, but I mean.
So what does um, thatsubsidiary do?
As it relates to Bitcoin andpeople making investments, I
guess?
Speaker 2 (39:30):
Yeah, the orange horizon wealth is a division of
Vista investment partners thatfocuses on Bitcoin centric
financial planning and wealthmanagement.
So, for all of Vista's clientsthat we've had before Orange
Horizon, we educate them aboutBitcoin and we can offer it and
do offer it to them in a varietyof ways, but the opportunity
(39:52):
that we identified is that amassively underserved niche of
clientele all throughout the USwho have discovered Bitcoin,
adopted it and, in their mind,view it as the most important
asset that they hold.
The challenge is, when aninvestor like that needs a
financial advisor, the mostcommon experience that they come
(40:13):
up against is that that advisorhas no idea what Bitcoin is and
is not able to offer them anyadvice around it or, even worse,
potentially bad advice aroundit.
And so Orange Horizon reallyyou can think of it as a
separate brand of Vista onething, but orange horizon
(40:39):
focuses on helping bitcoiners,as we call them, uh, in all
areas of traditional wealthmanagement, portfolio management
and financial planning, butdelivered from a team of
advisors that has a deepunderstanding of bitcoin because
, uh, on a personal level,you've invested a lot of energy
in trying to learn it and and uhuh, be an expert on it, and so,
uh, I don't know, um, wherethat fits.
Speaker 1 (41:04):
You know, when you talk about that and financial
planning, I'm still a little, alittle unsure of of how that
becomes part of your part ofyour portfolio and what you do
with it.
I mean, is it just making it apercent of what you're invested
(41:24):
in and trying to diversify byhaving some in Bitcoin, or is it
you're helping peopletransition everything into that?
I think, in part of the articlethat you wrote that you gave me
, that you said, apart from yourarticles is I talk to investors
almost every week now that fitthe following description
(41:46):
they're within 10 years ofretirement, they have seven
figures of investable net worthand have more than 50 percent
allocated to Bitcoin more than50% allocated to Bitcoin.
So is that the part whereyou're helping them?
You?
Speaker 2 (42:05):
know, do that 50% into Bitcoin or the most?
From an investment perspective,probably the most important
aspect of Bitcoin is that it isthe first asset with an
immutably fixed supply.
So with any other asset, as theprice goes up, the incentive to
create more of it goes up.
There are currently deposits ofgold all throughout the world
that would not be profitable toextract from the ground and,
(42:28):
from a strictly physics sense,gold is infinitely abundant.
The challenge is how much doesit cost you to acquire the gold,
and is the market value of thatgold higher than the cost to
acquire it?
Sure, so if the price of golddoubled tomorrow, you would
suddenly find that there's a lotof gold out there that is now
suddenly profitable to extractfrom the ground.
So that's true of every asset,that's true of stocks, that's
(42:50):
true of houses.
Bitcoin's the first asset thatthat's not true, for no matter
how high the price goes, theprotocol limits the terminal
supply to 21 million Bitcoin.
So for investors who arelooking at it, we help clients
in broadly in two ways.
Bitcoin can be used as asavings vehicle, or it can be
used as a portfolio enhancer.
(43:11):
So in the case where it's usedas a savings vehicle, we're able
to offer clients actual Bitcoin, the actual digital asset that
they can either leave with us tocustody for them, or they can
withdraw into their own custodyand keep on a dedicated hardware
device, or we now offer amultitude of portfolios that
(43:31):
have a segment allocation ofBitcoin ranging from pretty
small to pretty substantial, andtypically at this point we get
that exposure through what'scalled a spot ETF or exchange
traded fund.
Speaker 1 (43:46):
Is Bitcoin part of?
If people have an IRA, canBitcoin be a part of that money
that's being invested into yourIRAs?
Speaker 2 (43:57):
Yes, it can be part or all of it in some cases.
Speaker 1 (43:59):
Okay, and it seems like people are downloading apps
and purchasing these productsthrough their app and I'd be
concerned about security,especially if I have a lot
invested.
I mean, like someone can justdownload the River app and then
they just start buying Bitcoin.
(44:19):
I kind of played around with itand I and I that's how that's
where I have my Bitcoin rightnow, you know, um, and then
there's other, these other appslike a poll crack in best wallet
where people buy these othercurrencies, and I mean, what's
your thoughts about that?
Is that really a secure way tohave your investments?
(44:41):
Or is there some better advicethat we can give folks if they
want to get into this andanother, more secure way of
doing that, or a more effectiveway than just having everything
on your phone?
That part's a little scary tome.
Speaker 2 (44:56):
For anyone who wants to invest in Bitcoin, the
decision that they will have tomake is whether they want to
take responsibility for thesecure custody of their Bitcoin
or whether they want tooutsource that to a trusted
custodian, and there'strade-offs to both.
But in the case where they arerelying on a trusted custodian
(45:17):
because they don't want to takeresponsibility for keeping their
Bitcoin safe, it's important toevaluate what the legal nature
of the relationship is betweenyou and the counterparty or the
custodian.
So in the case of Kraken,coinbase, different things like
that those are what are commonlyreferred to as crypto exchanges
(45:37):
.
Different things like thatthose are what are commonly
referred to as crypto exchanges,and we have seen over the last
decade multiple times.
Crypto exchanges fail, gobankrupt and result in the
permanent loss of at least someof the assets of their account
holders.
As Bitcoin has matured andembedded itself deeper into the
financial system, there are nowways to outsource custody to a
(45:57):
qualified custodian, and that isheld to a different legal and
fiduciary standard, as opposedto a domestic US-based crypto
exchange or, especially, anon-US-based crypto exchange,
which is where the majority ofthe issues over the last five
years have come from.
Speaker 1 (46:16):
So is Orange Horizon.
Is that a custodian of Bitcoin?
I mean, is that what you is?
That can be part of what you're.
Speaker 2 (46:24):
We use Swan Bitcoin.
They have a platform forfinancial advisors through a
company called BitGo thatfunctions as the qualified
custodian.
So we don't custody clientBitcoin.
There's something called theprivate key that is essential to
security.
That's what allows you to signtransactions on the Bitcoin
(46:47):
network.
We don't have access to that.
We couldn't, even if we tried.
So in that security model, eachpiece of the security is
segmented out to those who areoptimized to do it best.
Speaker 1 (47:01):
So would it be better , if you're really getting
heavily invested in Bitcoin andyou want to do that, would it be
better to do that than someonejust to have it on the River app
on their phone?
Speaker 2 (47:13):
Would it be better for them to do what as opposed
to the River app?
Speaker 1 (47:16):
You just explained the custodian part of it.
So I mean, is it better to tohave it in that that type of a
custodial situation, versus mejust happening on my on my cell
phone through the river app?
And broadly speaking.
You answer that.
Speaker 2 (47:35):
I mean, it's just it's kind of like you know, hey,
matt, what's the bestinvestment?
Well, it depends.
And so the answer is going tobe similar there.
Where there is no universalbest solution, everything
requires trade off.
So it it just depends on thesituation of that particular
person and and we try to helpthem make that decision.
Speaker 1 (47:58):
but for any one person it might make sense to
leave it on river, it might makesense to withdraw it, it might
make sense to do something elseI'm just coming at this totally
out of my lane, trying tounderstand it and trying to
maybe uh, help through you guys,people to just understand a
little bit more who might be inthe same position.
I am hopefully more who mightbe in the same position.
(48:18):
I am Hopefully maybe they'renot in the same position.
I am from a knowledgestandpoint, but just trying to
bring some light to it.
I guess you could share alittle bit how Bitcoin's value
has gone up and and why so farit, it appears, has been a
(48:41):
really good investment so far.
Can we is that?
Can we have that discussion, isyou?
know, because I think that waspart of your article.
I read, where you know, we havethese, these, these gross
little fall, but then it goesback up again.
I mean, I think you that was inthe article that you had
written that you shared with me.
Speaker 2 (48:59):
Yeah, I'll start that and then let Brett add anything
he wants to.
If you look at Bitcoin over thelast five, ten years, depending
on the specific range, theaverage annualized rate of
return is somewhere around 50 to60 percent, and Brett alluded
to the rule of 72.
And over the long term, thatmeans your money is doubling, on
(49:21):
average every year and a halfor so.
So over the last decade,bitcoin has dramatically
outperformed the stock market.
It's outperformed bonds, it'soutperformed gold, it's
outperformed real estate, it'soutperformed every other major
asset class in the world.
But along with that, which istypical that the more an asset
grows over the long term, themore volatility it experiences
(49:42):
along the way.
And in that regard, bitcoin's noexception where, if you look at
the last five years or so, acouple of years ago Bitcoin
peaked at around $69,000.
And then, over the course ofabout the next year, it drew
down all the way to 16,000.
And then it moved up and it hitan all-time high of around
(50:03):
109,000.
And now we're currently sittingat 85,000 last I checked.
Yeah, so those are the twomajor components.
For someone who might want toown some of it is that, at at
least so far in its existence,it has massively outperformed
other assets that you might wantto look at, but it also has a
(50:25):
much higher corresponding levelof volatility in 2009.
Speaker 3 (50:39):
And one of our good friends, dante Cook, who does
some work for Vista InvestmentPartners and is well known on
social media for his commentsabout Bitcoin, makes a good
point that Bitcoin is as old oras a year younger than the
iPhone.
And if you start thinking aboutthe different technologies that
we use now that have come intoexistence, many of them are
digital in nature, and Bitcoinis no different it's digital
(51:00):
money.
So if you start thinking aboutusing Amazon, if you start
thinking about using any of themagnificent seven stocks that
I'm not going to name, most ofthe products are digital.
Last time I needed a ridesomewhere in a major
metropolitan area, I used Uber.
Uber is an app on my phone thatdidn't exist 15 years ago, and
(51:20):
so you start looking at thedigital transformation of things
in our world and you start torealize, hey, this is just
another evolution We've beenusing, you know, dollar bills.
You know, very rarely do you goanywhere now and not pull out a
Visa or MasterCard.
You hardly ever see cashanymore, and so the speed and
the adoption of digital money,in my opinion, is going to
(51:45):
continue to be adopted over thenext five years, and we're going
to see a financial revolutionin terms of speed of how money
transacts over the next fiveyears, because of these, we're
moving from analog payment railsto digital payment rails.
Right, I mean what's?
Speaker 1 (52:03):
I mean credit cards are.
Isn't that?
That's digital money?
Speaker 2 (52:08):
That's a.
That's a good question.
Technically it is digitalcredit and that cause that's a
common question of you knowBitcoin's digital money.
That doesn't sound all thatrevolutionary because, after all
, don't we already have digitalmoney?
Ninety percent of US dollarsdon't exist in physical form,
they exist only in the ledgersof a trusted bank computer.
(52:31):
But what we've really had isnot digital money, because, from
an economic sense, money is abearer asset.
Delivery of money constitutesfinal settlement of an economic
transaction, and that is not thecase.
That is not what happens whenyou send someone a Venmo or a
Zelle payment or a credit cardtransaction where the payment
(52:53):
seemingly occurs instantaneously, but settlement of that payment
occurs weeks or even monthsafter the fact.
And because of that, there areinefficient layers of
counterparty risk, credit riskon top of that.
And that costs money where welook at you know why do credit
cards charge merchants 3 percent?
It's not because they're greedy, it's because that's about how
(53:15):
much it costs for them to renderthat service.
So, as Brett was alluding to,one of the unique aspects of
Bitcoin is that it's digital,but it's also a bearer asset.
It can be sent at the speed oflight anywhere in the world and
it settles with cash finalityand that opens up an array of
different potential paymenttechnologies on the back of a
(53:37):
digital bearer asset.
So we're just starting to seethat play out.
It'll take some time but, likeBrad, I'm excited to see that.
Speaker 1 (53:45):
So we'll probably have a debit card it probably
exists, but tell how naive I ambut a debit card that is tied
into your Bitcoin account, youjust pay everything through that
.
Speaker 2 (54:02):
Those exist.
Speaker 1 (54:03):
For anything and everything.
Speaker 2 (54:06):
Mm-hmm, it works like a debit card.
Speaker 1 (54:09):
Do you think that are people commonly using that
today?
Speaker 2 (54:14):
As a percentage of the US population absolutely not
.
Speaker 1 (54:16):
How about a percentage of Bitcoin US
population?
Absolutely not.
How about a percentage ofBitcoin owners?
Speaker 2 (54:19):
Somewhat, I'd say most Bitcoin owners.
One way I think about Bitcoin,where, if you look at you know I
alluded to the fact that the USdollar bleeds purchasing power
every year, but we are in aprivileged position where,
relative to other fiatcurrencies, the dollar is the
(54:39):
best.
And if you look at countries orjurisdictions with very high
inflation problems, it's verycommon they will use two forms
of money One is a medium ofexchange and one is a savings
vehicle or a store of value.
So, in a case where you live inVenezuela, you may get paid in
their currency, all your billsmay be denominated in that, but
(55:01):
you don't want to store yourwealth in that currency.
Typically, they want to storetheir wealth in the US dollar,
and so, for most Bitcoiners inthe US, that's how they
primarily use Bitcoin as asavings vehicle, because,
despite some of theinefficiencies and things you
know, room for disruption thatwe think there is for Bitcoin
(55:22):
for most people most of the time, current legacy payment
technologies work pretty well,and so the demand to spend
Bitcoin, as you would expect,lags behind the demand to hold
it for the long term.
Speaker 1 (55:39):
So, as we begin to kind of wrap this up, two
different things I'll ask youguys.
Number one is there anythingthat we need to clarify, that
I've muddied up in thisconversation, or anything do you
think would be pertinent toshare with our followers?
Speaker 3 (55:52):
we have done a deep dive company-wide on Bitcoin as
an asset class.
We've also done a deep dive inour opinion on the other
cryptocurrencies that you'vementioned, but we do not believe
in recommending or owning thoseother cryptocurrencies.
We believe they have inherentproblems, which we'd be happy to
(56:12):
discuss in a privateconversation, but I wanted to
make that clear that that is theonly cryptocurrency that we
currently and will ever offer.
Speaker 2 (56:23):
Yeah, and I'd like to just double down on Brett's
point, because it's an importantone and, in my opinion, it is
the biggest source of confusionfor investors when it comes to
Bitcoin is well, what are allthese other crypto assets?
And, to try to briefly explainthe difference, we view them.
You know they're all typicallylumped in as cryptocurrencies
(56:45):
and, in a sense, you can putthem all in that category, but
we believe Bitcoin is a categoryof one and non-Bitcoin crypto
is a different thing.
Okay, um so, yeah, just try tomake that clear because,
unfortunately, oftentimessomeone gets introduced to
bitcoin and then you know, a fewmonths later they're buying uh,
you know, yo-yo token.
Speaker 1 (57:06):
they've lost 90 of their money, um so, well, I'll
see if this is a proper analogy.
Is it kind of getting in theseother ones, likened to people
that buy penny stocks orwhatever?
Is that fair?
Speaker 2 (57:21):
In some ways yeah, the way I describe it is Bitcoin
was a technological innovation,primarily because it was a
digital form of money beyond thecontrol of any one party.
So there is no government,there is no corporation
organization that has unilateralcontrol over the Bitcoin ledger
(57:42):
.
The Bitcoin ledger is updatedthrough the unfakable
expenditure of real world energyin a process called Bitcoin
mining that anyone in the worldcan participate in and that
history shows is hard to capturethe majority supply of.
We've never seen a civilizationcapture, command, control over
50% of the Earth's surface,because that's tied to energy,
(58:05):
and a similar thing is true inthe Bitcoin network.
So that's the innovation ofBitcoin is a digital asset
without an issuer that functionswithout the unilateral control
of any one group.
For the most part, allnon-Bitcoin crypto projects
uninvented Bitcoin's innovationby reintroducing a trusted
(58:27):
ledger keeper that has theunilateral control authority to
make backwards incompatiblechanges to the ledger.
Sometimes that's a corporation,sometimes it's what they call a
DAO or decentralized autonomousorganization, sometimes it's a
nonprofit, but at the end of theday, somebody, somewhere or
some group, if they want, can dowhatever they want to that
(58:49):
monetary ledger.
So that's not to say that youcan't make money on them or
trade them, but that's primarilywhat we mean when we say they
use similar technologies asBitcoin in terms of encryption
and the ledger structure.
It's called blockchain, whichbecame a buzzword, but that does
not make them of the same kindof thing as Bitcoin.
(59:11):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (59:13):
That's good to know.
Okay, that's good to know.
If any of our followers areinterested in financial planning
services and want to talk toyou guys, what's the best way to
contact you or how should theystart that process?
Speaker 3 (59:28):
Our local phone number is 765-962-5153,.
Or you can get a hold of Mattor myself.
Or you can get a hold of Mattor myself, or I'll give my email
address brettguiley G-U-I-L-E-Yat vistainvestmentnet.
Speaker 2 (59:45):
Okay, and my email's mattgawlier at
vistainvestmentnet.
So M-A-T-T dot G-O-L-L-I-H-E-Rat vistainvestmentnet.
Speaker 1 (59:57):
So so you guys are gonna get swamped after this
podcast goes out and uh, what'sthat?
Just real quickly.
I, you know I want to getinvolved.
I'm, I'm interested in gettingstarted, whatever.
What's that kind of that firstmeeting going to look like for
me, if I call you guys?
Speaker 2 (01:00:15):
and what's?
Speaker 1 (01:00:16):
what should I be?
What should that look?
What's that going to look like?
Speaker 3 (01:00:20):
So typically, the first meeting that we have, we
set up and it's there's nodecisions that are going to be
made.
We just want to get to know aperson, get to know their goals
and objectives, tell you alittle bit about what our firm
offers, our history, and findout if there's a match there and
if there is great.
If not, then we'll arm you withsome information to go on your
(01:00:41):
way.
Speaker 1 (01:00:41):
Right, but you just kind of want to find out where
they're at and then that's goingto help you to be able to
advise them, give them wherethey are and what their goals
are in the long term.
And I alluded to earlier, itdoesn't really matter where
you're at in life.
It's not too late to try toconnect with you guys and get
(01:01:02):
something started.
Is that true?
Speaker 3 (01:01:05):
It's always better to start than not to start, and
most people take more timeplanning their annual vacation
than they do their finances.
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:01:13):
Well, I really appreciate you guys taking the
time to meet with us and enduremy questions today, but, brett
and Matt, thank you so much forcoming on.
We really appreciate it.
That's all for this episode ofthe Hub.
Thanks again for listening andwe'll see you next time for
another conversation with adifference maker from our region
(01:01:34):
.
Manpower is proud to supportthe hub.
Find out how they can supportyour business at MPRichmondcom.
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