#19 Vince Rugari: The Genius Behind ‘Angeball’

Sports journalist for the Sydney Morning Herald as well as author of the book 'Angball' Vince Rugari enters the huddle to discuss all things Journalism and Sports. In this exclusive interview, Rugari shares his insights on the genius behind Angeball, the tactical philosophy of Ange Postecoglou. As a leading expert on Australian football, Rugari provides a unique perspective on Postecoglou's successful stints in the A-League, his time with the Socceroos, and his current tenure at Tottenham. From the Liberty A-League to the Premier League, Rugari delves into the intricacies of Angeball, exploring Postecoglou's tactics and how they have influenced the game. With his in-depth knowledge, Rugari paints a vivid picture of Postecoglou's footballing vision, making this interview a must-watch for football enthusiasts and fans of Angeball.The discussion also delves into Rugari's personal journey and life lessons, the book itself the future of Australian football, and the aspirations for the Socceroo's in the upcoming World Cup. Plus some extra sports talk!

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Chapters

00:00 NBA Game 7 Finals Quick Recap

11:02 Introduction to Vince Rugari

19:38 Insights from 'Ange Ball' and the Writing Process

30:57 Ang Winning A Trophy for Tottenham

40:50 Challenges and Opportunities in Australian Football

51:09 World Cup Aspirations and Team Dynamics

57:08 Experiences from Previous World Cups

01:00:36 Australia Hosting a World Cup

01:06:17 The Intricacies of Cricket and Sports Rivalries

01:12:01 Introduction to the Huddle Within Podcast

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Welcome to the Huddle Within podcast, where we go beyond the
surface to uncover the real impact of sports on our lives.
Whether it's lessons of resilience, the passion that
fuels us, or the stories that connect us all, This is where
the game gets personal. I am Daniel, a regular sports
fan just like you, and together we'll explore what sports truly
means beyond the surface. So step right into the Huddle
and let's get into it. What?

(00:39):
Is going on everybody and welcome to another episode of
the Huddle Within podcast. I thank you very much for tuning
in today and for those that havewatched all the episodes as
well, thank you for tuning in once again.
If it is your first time, we do episodes every single Wednesday,
so be sure to check these out. We go through a range of
different sporting topics unravelling as a better word to

(01:01):
probably say the deeper meaning of of sports in our lives and
how it impacts that, et cetera, et cetera.
And as you can tell, for the title of this episode, we have
Australian or Sydney Morning Herald journalist Vince Rugani,
who covers football as a whole in this country, started with
Gold Coast United before they became extinct and most recently

(01:25):
working for the Sydney Morning Herald, as mentioned and most
notably famous for his excellentnovel Ang Ball.
I encourage everyone to check that out.
It's an extremely detailed book covering the journey and life of
of Ang Postocogli. And for those that resonate with
deeper meanings and, and want toknow the process to grind and

(01:48):
the hard work that goes into, I guess coaching and and that
lifestyle, the book certainly covers all those aspects as
well. So really excited for you guys
to listen to this and hope you hope you truly enjoy it.
Vince was such a down to earth bloke, pretty chill.
And I kind of enjoyed interviewing him as well.
The first time I've sort of interviewed a journalist of that

(02:10):
high regard. So you could probably tell I was
a little bit nervous in there, but then again, sort of kind of
comfort myself into that as well.
But before we get into all that,we have to address the most
recent news in in the NBA and that is the Oklahoma City
Thunder winning the NBA Championship.

(02:31):
Congratulations to them. They did it in seven games.
It took an inspiring Shay Gilshire Alexander 25.12 assists
game. I'm pretty sure from what my
head can remember a solid 20 point Jalen Williams performance
as well and also a extremely solid defensive performance from
Chet Holgrom as well. Who?

(02:51):
Who turned up big? In in this game as well and.
Full. Credits to them, they were the
best team in the NBA the whole season.
Having a 68 and 12 season is no steep fee as well.
Two wins off 70, the most consistent across the whole
season. The MVP as well.
Few defensive of the year defensive player of the year
players too in that squad. This team is going to be good

(03:14):
for a very, very, very, very long time and commiserations to
the Indiana Pacers and the wholestoryline, despite obviously OKC
are winning this in seven, is the horrific injury that Tyrese
Halliburton copped in the 1st 7 minutes of the game.
And for me personally, it was extremely emotional to say.

(03:36):
And I have to be honest because when he sort of went down and
there was a zoom in on what he said, basically saying that he
did it, he had that the realisation that he he did tear
his Achilles was extremely emotional, especially given the
fact that he decided to sacrifice his body for the team
and also knew the risks that were going to come into playing

(03:57):
on a calf strain. But no one expects and no one
wants. An Achilles.
Tear to occur now. We've had three Achilles tears
this season, which I think the NBA needs to do something about
the amount of games being playedthroughout the whole season
because in no world should therebe 3 Achilles tears in one
season for three star players yet alone another two in Indiana

(04:19):
as well. I can't forget to mention James
Wiseman and I think it's. Jairus Walker as well, or?
Isaiah Jackson, one of the two. That have tore their Achilles
too, so. I don't wish an Achilles tear on
anyone yet alone that to happen in a must win Game 7 where it's
win or go home, but essentially win or lose an NBA championship

(04:41):
and it's going to be really hardfor the Pacers to really go to
the NBA Finals again without their star player.
So this is such a big blow to the Pacers organisation as well,
who have been the surprise of ofthe whole playoffs, a true
underdog story that they couldn't cap off a finals.

(05:02):
But all the most overrated player jokes from Tyrese
Halliburton that people have made are extremely thrown out
the window. Now.
The respect that Tyrese Halliburton has got, especially
going out there, despite the risks of of tearing his
Achilles, is something that was truly inspiring as well.
And, and you got to give credit to that.
It takes a lot of courage and a lot of competitive spirit to go

(05:25):
out there and try to compete. And he did that and he was
looking good to. People don't really talk about
this much in the media, but he was 3 for three on threes as
well. He was looking hot and I
genuinely think that if he was out there, the Pacers would have
had a real, real fighting chanceto win.
I'm not going to say that they they would have won it because
we're obviously never going to know and we can't disrespect uh

(05:45):
OKC Thunder being the best team all season, but I'm 100% certain
that the Indiana, the, the Indiana Pacers would have gave
OKCA competitive run and it would have been the playoff game
for the ages and it still was. But overall, I guess it ended up
being a blowout because there wasn't really much the Pacers
could give towards the end. They were really relying on

(06:06):
Benedict Matheran and TJ McConnell, who just gave their
all in that series, especially Matheran.
He didn't stop to the end. TJ McConnell hit ten straight
buckets. Aaron Naismith and Andrew
Nemhart were very pesty on defence.
Pascal tsiakam was consistent asalways and miles Turner was
protecting the rim. They could do all they could in
that. In that instance, the only thing

(06:26):
that I would criticise is the amount of minutes that Nemhardt
and Siah can wear on the bench. But I can also understand that
they're you're trying to roll with the punches with with TJ
McConnell and and Benedict Mathuran are getting constant
points as well. So just a big blow for the
Pacers. But As for OKC, they're looking

(06:48):
to be a stronghold in the Western Conference for for an
extremely, extremely long time. So it's going to be hard to to
really beat this team and it's easy to say that they'll go back
to back. But now in the NBA, it's really
hard to go back to back. But what I can say is with all
the unfortunate injuries in the Eastern Conference, the Eastern
Conference is as wide open as ever with teams like Cavs now

(07:11):
they have a fighting chance after after getting eliminated
in the second round of the Pacers, they have a big chance
to push. You've got Orlando that have
made the recent Bain acquisitionand you've also got New York
that have a chance to run it back too and a young Detroit
team that is getting Ivy back. The the East might not be as
strong as the West, but it can be very competitive and anyone
can get out of that, that E, which is extremely exciting.

(07:35):
Unfortunately, the Wizards won'tbe near that and it seems like
an open window at the moment. But there's something that we
can look forward to and that is the NBA draught.
So he's obviously know that I pretty much selected or we got
selected 6th, 6th pick in this draught despite having the the
equal or the second worst odds or regular season record and

(07:56):
also equal first odds in in getting the number one pick.
So a big drop there. But with all the recent news
that's occurring and those that are into basically NBA will know
this. But for those that are not, the
draught is essentially picking up the youngest player from
university or from college. And the the first pick is
obviously going to get the best young player that will have a

(08:17):
chance to be a superstar in the future.
And one of those players, Ace Bailey, who's coming out of
Rutgers playing with Dylan Harper, those two were literally
the only two good players from that team is is declining
workouts from Philadelphia. And that seems like something to
be alarm for for Wizards fans, because it seems as though Ace
Bailey really wants a starting role with significant minutes

(08:40):
and we're one team that can offer offer him that.
I still. Think realistically.
He. Might go one or two picks before
us, whether it's Charlotte or whether it's Utah, but if we do
end up being in his range, don'tbe surprised with his fans that
Ace Bailey will will become a wizard.
But looking at the board at the moment for when we're ranged,

(09:00):
the person that I'm liking at the moment is Jeremiah Fears.
Now there's concerns that he's jump shot isn't polished and
that he's he's undersized for a guard.
But I really like his craftiness.
And I think if he can Polish up his shooting, limit the
turnovers, he can be a very goodpiece for us moving forward in
this in this Wizards rebuild. But lots of players to look out

(09:22):
for too. You've got Dairy Queen as well.
That is around 1415. The Wizards could probably sneak
up to get him at 18 if he gets passed up, but this draught
class is going to be very special.
There is a lot of potential superstars here.
You've got VK Edgecomb, you've got Continiple, you've got Dylan
Harp, you've got Cooper Flag whowho pretty much are going to
cover the top four. And then you've got a plethora

(09:43):
of guards such as Trey Johnson, as mentioned, Ace Bailey, who's
sort of a combo guard, and then also Jeremiah Fears.
So for me, I think we're in thatJeremiah fears Edgecom, not
Edgecombe, sorry, Trey Johnson and Ace Bailey's own.
If we do end up getting those guys and if VK Edgecombe slips
to any of those positions, I'd be great to hit on him as well.

(10:05):
But the Wizards really need to hit on this draught and not hit
on someone that's going to be complimentary like Conch Nipple,
who will be a decent fit for another team, but someone who's
going to be the star for this team.
And Ace Bailey seems to fit thatprofile.
We'll have to wait and see. The draught is going to be two
days from when this podcast is released.
And. Extremely excited for that.

(10:26):
There might be a bit of a draught reaction and depending
on what what the Wizards will do, but I suspect that it will
be one of those three players that will get drafted to to the
Washington Wizards. And As for other teams that are
around that, just look out for the draught as well.
It's going to be I think 10:00 AM on Friday for us and then
also Saturday too for the secondround.

(10:47):
But without further ado, that probably concludes the NBA talk.
I will move over to the interview of now, but thank you
guys for for listening in and I really hope you enjoy the lovely
interview that I have with Vinceregarding it's a it's a very
good listen. Vince, would you like?
To introduce yourself to the people listening today.
Oh yeah, maybe. I guess, yeah.

(11:10):
I don't know. I'm Vince.
I'm a I'm a sports journal for the Sydney Morning Herald and I
do a couple of other little things on the side from time to
time, but that's a bit. I'm not very good at that stuff,
bro. That's, that's me.
That's a bit. Well, I can I can sort of give a
bit of a limelight to the to thepeople listening as well.

(11:32):
Sundra Ghani, someone that has been part of the Stan Sports
panel, has been doing journalismfor a very, very long time,
started, I'm pretty sure, at Gold Coast Suns.
If, correct me if I'm wrong, Gold Coast.
You might also, although I. I did cover the Suns in their
first season. I was.
That's when I was like studying at uni on the Gold Coast.
Yeah, I did. I didn't.

(11:52):
I did sort of see that. But in terms of football itself,
yeah, the Gold Coast United makes sense.
Yeah. But yeah, started with them and
then most famously the author ofAnge Ball, which I've read and
I'm a massive fan of. But yeah, correct me if I've
missed anything else. You probably have, but I like I
can't think of anything either. Like my memory isn't isn't the

(12:14):
best level stuff, but it's just interesting I suppose.
I have been doing journalism fora long time now, but it doesn't
feel like it. I really only started in like
2012 and yeah, that's like 14 years ago.
That's crazy, though. That's crazy.
That's 14 years. Anyway, Yeah, it's.
It is a pretty long time, yeah. I'd say time flies when you're

(12:34):
having fun and I guess probably doing it.
You've had so much enjoyment that you probably haven't even
noticed the time so. Totally.
I mean, that's why, you know, like I sort of did it or went
into it in the first place is you want that feeling of like
you never actually work. You know, like if you enjoy what
you do and everything that comeswith it, then it never.

(12:57):
There's not too many times whereit feels like I'm forcing myself
to do something that I don't really want to do, which is a
pretty good situation to be in. You know, if any, everyone
should sort of, I know it's not easy, but like aim for that in
their sort of careers because then when you have to put in
extra or go overtime and all that, it comes sort of naturally
and easily. It's not like you're not forcing

(13:18):
yourself and good things come that way, I find totally.
Totally. Well, just getting on that I
guess. How did you realise that this
would be that type of career forme?
Through other people telling me basically because I didn't, I
didn't think I wanted to do thisor like like I remember like

(13:38):
I'd. So I started studying a
journalism degree, journalism and sports management at uni,
but did one semester of the journalism degree and the intro
subject, which was called writing for news media, which is
basically where I had to go around like campus and like ask
people stuff and like find stories and like, And I, I was

(14:01):
17, I was real young at uni and I just like, I was nervous,
moved into state, I guess I wasn't like fully confident.
I just didn't love it. And I never really liked the
idea of being like a journal who, you know, you grow up and
you watch the news and you see, you know, athletes and coaches
talking in situations where theyclearly don't want to like TV

(14:22):
journals holding the mic up under someone's nose being like,
well, what do you got to say about that?
Like, I just never found that particularly appealing.
So I changed my degree to communication from journalism
and I majored in journalism and PR because I had the idea that I
wanted to more work on the club side of things.
But, and I did and I went into that and I was doing an

(14:45):
internship through my uni studies with Gold Coast United,
funnily enough. And a mate of mine who had a
part time job working for a website called Sportle, which is
no longer around covering sport in Southeast Queensland was
leaving. And I was in, I was just in a
press box 1 day with, with him and my mentor at Gold Coast

(15:06):
United. He was like, I think from
memory, I think he was moving toLondon.
And so I was trying to figure out like, who can we get to fill
in this job of doing the match reports and all that, and not
just football, but all other sports in the area.
And he was like, well, you should do it.
And I was like, Nah, like, I'm not not keen.
And then the dude who was overseeing my internship was
basically like, Nah, you'd be stupid to not like to turn that

(15:29):
down because like, you know, your instincts, you have
journalism instincts. I don't really know what that
means. But like, that forced me down
the path. And then once I started doing
it, I was just like, I couldn't really imagine doing anything
else. But it was basically totally
accidental to the point where I physically removed myself from

(15:50):
the path that I ended up being on anyway by changing my degree
because I didn't like it so much.
And now in the end, like, I'll just, you know, I think it's
what happens with time and experience and anything I'd
like, I'll talk to whoever and not have to worry about it.
But back then, when you're trying to decide what you want
to do with your life, the idea of just talking to people who
you didn't know and trying to find a story was just like, so

(16:12):
frightening in a way or whatever.
It just wasn't comfortable. But you got to put yourself in
uncomfortable situations and then eventually you get
comfortable at them. So that's the, that's the short
version, yeah. You're sounding like how I am
right now, to be honest talking to you at this point, if I'm
honest. But it's a great intake Intel.
And yeah, I guess as you get theexperience and you kind of go

(16:32):
through that, you start buildingthat kind of rapport and that
comfortableness through that. Do you remember your first ever
like match report that you did or journalism story when you did
start and they put you into thatkind of deep end?
I don't know what the first one was, but I remember, yeah.
It's hard to say what the first one was, but I do remember like
turning up at my first Gold Coast Titans game, like an NRL

(16:55):
game. And like, I, I'd never have
really been into rugby league because I like grew up in
Adelaide. That's just not my game.
I just remember like turning up and just like just no, I wasn't
heaps prepared. I sort of tried my best, but
there's only so much you can sort of prepare yourself when
you're covering an NRL game for the first time.

(17:15):
And I was just looking around like there's all these like
experienced dudes in the box andjust like I'm trying to figure
out what the hell is going on inNRL, which like I didn't fully
know at that time. And I was just like, whoa, this
is like not yeah, again, out of the comfort zone, Tiberius.
So as, as far as my first story goes, it was, I don't know, it's

(17:36):
probably some midweek press conference that some freaking
one of the teams around there, Ican't remember.
But everything was new to me back then, Yeah.
Totally, totally. And we always a massive fan of
football prior in Adelaide, yeah.
Yeah, yeah, it sort of wasn't myfirst sport until until we

(17:57):
qualified for the 2006 World Cupand that sort of changed
everything for me. But like I grew up going, you
know, mostly Port Adelaide gamesin the AFL and then a few
Adelaide City games with my dad and uncles in the old NSL and
then a little bit in the A League, but not much.
But then like I got sort of justgot independently more into

(18:17):
football. I was, I was 15 when we
qualified for like in that game against Uruguay.
I was, I was 15 and I don't know, I don't know how to
describe it as a log was just football's just always there.
My family was never a big football family, but football
was just always there somehow. And just over time, I gravitated
more to football just because, well, it's just the best.

(18:41):
It's such a great way to see theworld as well through football,
understand more about the world and shit.
So, yeah, well, I've always beeninto it, but I'd say growing up,
I, I, I call it the Holy Trinity, the three sports I care
about more than any others, football, AFL and cricket.
I would say growing up, footballwas number three of those three.

(19:04):
And then over time has become like a clear number one.
Yeah, totally. It completely makes sense.
I think we're all grown up to toloving AFL and cricket.
I'm sort of the same growing up with those sports started with
AFL. You can see the the Collingwood
frame at the back of of me. Massive Collingwood fan growing
up and then that's a real shame.Transitioning, sorry.
That's a real shame. Collingwood, yeah.

(19:27):
Well, we're pretty much similar in that aspects, but yeah, we're
doing well this year to be fair.Yeah, it.
Sucks I can't cop it like you guys have had your turn.
Yeah, I. Know maybe one day for you guys,
but I think when I don't know, Ken Hingley is looking to leave
this season. So maybe, yeah, new new system
it might have. Been our day sooner if you'd
left a couple of years ago, but that's a that's a different

(19:50):
story. Yeah, for sure.
I thought we could cover that a whole another time.
But yeah, so getting into football and and actually just
learning about how it impacts the world and, and kind of when
I saw AFL growing up, I just sawit as an Australian thing.
And then when I realised that there were sports that actually
were from all around the world, it connected me to the world as
well. And then that's when I sort of

(20:11):
understood kind of my geography,my history and everything, and
it just kind of propelled into into new.
Heights as well. Along with playing too.
But as I've grown older, I've started to just love, I guess,
all sports in the fandom and history.
But I find that football out of all of them really covers the
whole world and gives you that kind of that insight as well.
I wanted to get straight into your the book Angeville.

(20:34):
So I had a read and the one thing that I just took out from
that book was just the level of detail that was put into every
single chapter covering all bases.
Like I never knew that Ange possibly actually coached
western suburbs, which is like 10 minutes up the road for me
before before before this book. So things like that.
I don't want to obviously spoil too much because I'm encouraging

(20:55):
people to to get on this book, but talk to me through how kind
of this whole process went on. Obviously starting the book,
being able to just get all this information and even writing,
like I hear it takes a lot of time.
So I couldn't imagine, especially with the level of
detail that's been on each each chapter and each source, just
yeah, take me through that wholeprocess.
It's a long process, but it's funny, the western suburbs

(21:18):
thing, like I didn't even know. I knew he'd been there, but I
didn't know much about it. There's not that much
information about it. Like you can go on Wikipedia and
it's there, but I don't know if it's still the case now.
But in the past, I know if you clicked on the Western Suburbs
team there on his profile, it actually went to the the team in
Sydney called Western Suburbs, which played in the NSL.

(21:39):
So like the actual club itself doesn't have a page and it's
just no information about it. So that that part of it was like
really interesting because I just knew nothing.
But as far as the book goes, So talking about, you know, my time
with Sport One in Queensland, that was when I first sort of
crossed paths with with Ange when it was a Brisbane Roar.

(21:59):
So that was like really some of my first exposure to covering
football was covering his teams,which were just amazing.
And then so obviously, you know,over, over, you know, a period
of time, like a decade plus, I've covered his teams, I've
covered the Socceroos when he was in charge and always kept an
eye on him when he left to go overseas and all that.

(22:22):
So built up a relationship there.
And then when he was confirmed as Spurs manager the the next
morning in Australia. So I remember I was a busy
morning because I was writing stories about the stuff that had
happened overnight, like Pep Guardiola saying, you know, he's

(22:44):
an amazing coach, et cetera, et cetera.
Everyone's still getting their heads around it all.
There was a publisher, the publisher of the book called
Hashet had a, had a meeting in our offices in the Sydney
Morning Herald, which was like a, you know, they're trying to
introduce themselves and their company and their processes to
The Newsroom to basically say topeople like if you're a
journalist and you're interestedin writing a book, we are

(23:06):
potentially interested in talking to you.
Here's what we do, here's how itworks, blah, blah, blah.
I can't give you any more detailabout that meeting because I
wasn't there. I was too busy writing the and
stuff and I completely like it slipped my mind that like, oh
shit, I really wanted to go to that meeting because I I've
always had the idea of like writing a book and just like,
oh, I missed it. Anyway, I found the guy in our

(23:27):
office kitchen afterwards just talking with people and I said
to him, like, Hey, you going, you know, I'm Vince Frigari.
Like I missed the meeting. So I was writing about this
Angie poster call blue guy, you know, do you have like a
PowerPoint presentation or something you can send me so I
can catch up on what I missed? And he's like, oh, well, you
know, Ange, that's interesting. Like isn't that massive?

(23:47):
And, you know, we're thinking about writing a potentially
getting a book done on him. We're looking for a writer.
And I said, well, mate, like, you know, I've been covering him
for blah, blah, blah. We exchanged contact details.
Then I basically had to switch straight away on to covering the
Women's World Cup, which was about to start.

(24:08):
But before the Women's World Cupstarted, you know, they came
back to me and said like, yeah, look, you know, we'd love to
make you an offer to write a book about Angela Scotland.
And I'm like, holy shit. OK, it sussed it out, all
checked out, went for it, still then had to cover the Women's
World Cup. And then basically the day after
it finished, which was August 21, 2023, I had most of the

(24:34):
remainder of the year off. I took leave, annual leave
through work and basically just started from there.
Just research ideas ringing people like combing through, you
know, digital newspaper archivesand like old stories to con like

(24:56):
get my head into, you know, whatthing, what was the being talked
about in say 2010 when he went to Brisbane Roar?
You know, what was the situationof the game of Brisbane
etcetera, all that sort of stuff, like watch some old
games, some old interviews, transcribed a lot of podcasts
that I know Angie had been on before and sort of put, you

(25:18):
know, Angie's story sort of breaks itself up in terms of
obvious chapters and and eras like at each team.
So, you know, I'm trying to likedivide all this material that I
gather into like, that'll go good there, that'll go good in
the Brisbane chapter, etcetera. So it's just a lot of that, you
know, a trip to London as well to watch a couple of games and

(25:40):
to interview and show you. I spoke to once for the book.
And then it was like 4 and a bitmonths of like sitting here,
right here on this chair in thisroom at this desk from, you
know, morning until my wife would get home from work, which
would be somewhere between 4:00 and 6:00.

(26:01):
Just riding man, and just getting lost in the, in the
story. And it's like, it's a bit
similar to what I was saying before, like it's an easy, it
was hard work and it was relentless everyday stuff,
including, you know, through Christmas and all that.
But also like it's pretty easy to drew into something that
you're really passionate and interested about.
So it never felt like a like a chore.

(26:24):
It was just an amazing big storychopped up into like 17 or 18
little mini stories, which form the book and just trying to get
as much insight into it as possible.
And I learned a lot myself throughout it all.
But I also had, you know, memories and recollections to to
draw upon and my own experience in journalism when he was with

(26:46):
the Socceroos or whatever. And yeah, I was lucky enough
that I've, you know, over my time built up a lot of contacts
with people who've known Ange to.
So just, you know, the first fewweeks or the first month or so,
I pretty much spent it on the phone or sitting with people
over a coffee, just interviewingthem.

(27:06):
And then it was about like splitting all that up and just
starting to write. And then, yeah, it was just
pretty daunting in terms of like, I think they asked for
like 70 to 80,000 words and I'm pretty sure I submitted
somewhere between 1:10 and 1:20.So they got more than they asked
for. But I just figured like, hey, if

(27:29):
you want the book that I think it should be like the way it
should be, then just let me let me do it.
So totally. They just sort of had to cop
that, but I think they were happy with the end result.
But man, hard work, but very, very rewarding.
Yeah, so much. Detail in that book, seriously,
like the the stuff that I've read and like the intricacies of
Angie and the people that he wasassociated with, the connections

(27:51):
that he had through football andpeople that he brought over to
different clubs. People's impact that he he gave
on people is truly inspiring andit's so good that it's actually
been put on a cover. Because from what I gathered in
that book without anyone readingit, it did seem as though he was
extremely misunderstood from media in Australia.
And that sort of did kind of question his relationship with

(28:12):
Australian football here. Much needed him to go out in, in
my personal opinion. But it's just crazy how you were
able to kind of tie that all alltogether as well.
What, I guess for you was the most surprising thing when
writing the book, besides what we mentioned about, I think,
Western suburbs. That's a good question.
There weren't heaps of surprisesjust because I've lived a lot of

(28:34):
the lived a lot of the journey, you know, in real time.
Like from Brisbane onwards. I don't I remember everything
because I experienced it and like, you know, I remember what
people said and when around thattime.
I guess what was interesting in terms of discovering new sort of
facts and detail was just more, more stuff around this time at

(28:56):
South Melbourne. Just because, you know, when he
left South Melbourne, I was 10 years old.
And, you know, my knowledge of the NSL didn't go further than
turning up a high March on, you know, two or three times a
season with my uncle and not really knowing what, who the
opposition team was and what wasgoing on really.

(29:17):
So it was interesting to just learn that he's he's pretty much
been this way since day one, including back.
Like like even. At South Melbourne, everyone
back there, you know, you'd think there was a period where
he tried this and this didn't work.
So he went this way and that worked.
Or like over time, maybe he found he'd like learned his

(29:39):
voice or like found a way to address the team through trial
and error, etcetera. But Nah, it was pretty much like
early doors. This dude was almost fully
formed as a person, as a manager, and it was just
knocking over challenges thereafter, which was pretty,
pretty incredible. I don't know how much that was a

(30:01):
surprise. Like, I guess I kind of knew it,
but I'd just like the extent to which people would talk about
that, you know, and, and probably just how dominant South
Melbourne were during that time period as well.
Because like, again, I don't remember watching these games
until having to do this book. I had like a cursory knowledge
of, you know, their seasons and how they went.

(30:24):
But yeah, fair to say they were,they were unbelievable.
And he was the reason. And yeah, he's, he's been that
way ever since. Yeah.
It's, it's crazy how I think we feel whole career trajectory
from having NSL club managed to all the way up to the Premier
League. The story has been the same as
you mentioned every single time.The way he wants to play
football, the way he deals with the media, the way he deals with

(30:47):
his players. It's super consistent across the
whole board. Obviously your book was finished
before all the stuff that's happened now and I'd love to
talk about all these. And no, not to criticise Andrew
or anything, but I think the only one time he ran away from
his football was to bring Tottenham home a trophy.
So I go for Man United and I satthere being upset by

(31:10):
understanding that our team is no good and probably something
we we probably needed to to really get us like a wake up
call, hopefully next season, butwe don't know.
But and to win a trophy for Tottenham, who have been starved
of that for 17 years and then more than that with a major
trophy to go against this play, I, I found quite fascinating.

(31:32):
But I think it was a whole different situation there, given
that Tottenham's been starved. So talk to me about that.
And knowing that how Ange is, how do you think his mindset
would have been if you haven't spoke to him before that game
and kind of his outlook in this,Yeah.
Look, I, I haven't spoken to himand I don't know, and I've sort
of been asked about this a couple of times and, but I do

(31:52):
want to hear more from him to explain the decisions that he
made through the second season because I don't know if I fully
understand it from his perspective.
And funnily enough, by the end of this week, I've got to write
like a new four word, like A50, basically 1500 words that will
be inserted at the start of the book in future editions in the

(32:13):
UK. So I'm sort of thinking about
this stuff at the moment, but I think my best guess is that it
was partly due to like circumstances in terms of
personnel injuries and not only missing players, but, you know,
players like Romero and Van De Van who came back over the
second half of that season, I'm not sure they were ever 100%

(32:35):
fit. And so it was having to figure
out a way of keeping them as fitas you possibly could for the
most important games with a style that wouldn't compromise
that. But I think also the big one
was, you know, the league seasonwent to went to poo.

(32:56):
And I think over his two years and slowly came to the
realisation, like he started there being like, you know,
everyone just wants a trophy. But like, you know, we need to
that's that's not the thing to be aiming for.
The thing to aim for is consistent success.
And we're trying to build that blah, blah.
And I think Tottenham is such a peculiar club culturally and so
strange that over time I think he realised that like, Hey, we

(33:18):
actually might just need a trophy just if for no other
reason than to just like get this, this monkey off the back,
this psychological baggage, thisterm Spurzy.
Maybe we actually do just need to win something.
And and that way there once we've done that, the sort of the
cloud will lift. And after that point, we'll

(33:40):
actually have the psychological space or the OR the OR the
ability to build the thing that he was actually wanting to
build. But yeah, it was really striking
in terms of the way that they they did it because, you know,
I've never seen Ange teams go long from goal kicks like
Tottenham did in the Europa League, that the style was
really different. And I want to hear him sort of

(34:01):
justify or explain how he justifies the change up in
style. Because there's so many times in
the past, as the book details, where people have just said, be
prep, be more pragmatic everywhere in his career.
And he's never done it, and usually it works when he doesn't
do it. This time he did it and it

(34:22):
worked. I don't know, I guess I'm still
digesting it myself at the moment, but it'll be interesting
to hear what the big fella has to say.
Yeah, for sure. I'm.
Keen to yeah, get his outlook onit as well.
But I think it was in the obviously the right decision in
the end of the day, getting thatthat last trophy.
And I feel like the stage is probably the biggest stage he's
ever coached on, Europa League final and stuff.

(34:43):
And I think when you look at Tottenham and I know you support
them as well, I read in the book, yeah, I.
Mean, I was a a united fan too, actually growing up, but like I
watched there was a there was a,it happened when I was at uni
actually, I was there was a, there was a bit of a period
where I just sort of like dropped all my dropped all my

(35:05):
European allegiances because I realised that like they don't
actually matter to me that much.Like, you know, this is for me
anyway, like, you know, grew up supporting UVA and and then
United. I just, I just chose them.
So I don't really have any connections to them.
And you know, I'd get, I'd be happy when they won, but I

(35:25):
wouldn't be like distraught whenthey'd lose.
Not like many people do with their teams.
Like, you know, and I always sort of equated it as, you know,
like, like be like watching a movie or ATV show in terms of
being entertained that way. Whereas, you know, over time I
realised and particularly as I my sort of career in Australian

(35:46):
football, you know, expanded, I don't, I'll fundamentally I
don't care about what happens overseas.
All I care about is what happenswith our teams and our people.
So like, yeah, I own some Unitedjerseys, but I don't really
like, I don't feel anything towards them.
And then not only did Ange go toTottenham and that got me

(36:11):
emotionally invested, but you know, my wife and her in laws,
you know, her family and my in laws are all actually Tottenham
from way back. And sort of as I explained on
another podcast recently, like it feels like for me, there
needs to be an Aussie involved somewhere for there to be the
conditions in which a spark can start up that will catch on to

(36:33):
me emotionally and actually likegiving a shit about a team.
And possibly too early to say after he got chopped, but I
think I think I will be Tottenham from now on because of
that experience. But yeah, just funny that you're
a United fan because me too in ain a past life.

(36:56):
Yeah, struggling United fan, to be honest, but when you so I
went before, like you're mentioning that when I when I
was talking about obviously and winning that trophy, it was
crazy to me. And obviously our bias has come
through being Aussie football fans.
But the fact that they still bend off Ang despite his
philosophy and his way of playing football is to grow and

(37:17):
evolve the club. And I think from winning that
trophy, that would have been theperfect next season for him to
do that. And just wanted to get your
thoughts on on. Yeah, the whole process of that.
I kind of, sort of. Understand in the sense that.
You know, I did sack 10 Hog or didn't sack 10 Hog decide to
stay with him after winning a trophy.
But I feel like the way we know Ang and understanding how his

(37:37):
philosophy is, it's 2 completelydifferent things, especially
considering a club like Tottenham as well.
So yeah, give me your thoughts on the eventual sacking.
I know I've got a lot of criticism, rightly so, across
the whole world, which is good to see because we all obviously
saw what everyone saw we were seeing.
So, yeah, yeah. I thought it was was a dumb
decision that they will regret. It would have been really

(38:00):
interesting to see, you know, talking about the the getting
the monkey off the back, what they've been able to do in a
third season. We'll never know.
But just like it's probably a good thing for Ange in the long
run because you look at the reasons that that the Tottenham
board gave for for sacking him. And it's like, you know, we want
to compete on multiple fronts and we think a change of

(38:22):
approach is needed. I think that's a that's a direct
quote from this statement. And it's like, yeah, a direct
approach, a change of approach is needed from from the board,
from you guys, not from the coach.
Because to compete in multiple competitions, they need a much
deeper squad than what they had this season.
And the thinness of that squad, combined with the injuries they

(38:44):
suffered LED Ange to the decision halfway through to say
the priority is now Europa, not Premier League, which led to
more losses than they otherwise would have had in the Premier
League, which led to their league position in the end.
And it's just like, I just thinkasking any manager to compete on
multiple fronts with a squad like that or that size squad or

(39:06):
that kind of squad, you know, especially after the transfer
window they had before this pastseason where they went young.
You know, it's not going to happen basically.
And So what the club is looking for is, is a is a coach who
will, you know, get them to finish somewhere between 4th and
7th and probably not win any cups.

(39:29):
Because to win those cups, you need you.
You either need to spend more onplayers to make your squad
bigger and stronger to compete in multiple competitions, or you
need to sacrifice something. And it sounds like they don't
want to sacrifice the league, even though one of Tottenham's
most famous, you know, people once said the game is about
glory and brought them glory. They decided not for us.

(39:52):
So I thought it was really harsh.
I could understand it, but I thought it was harsh.
I thought the right thing to do would be give him another
season, not only because he's earned it, but because I'm just
so curious to know what would have happened there with that
playing group who were fully behind him, trophy in the bag,

(40:14):
You know, a couple more changes to the squad.
What could what could happen? Because people forget how.
How good they looked at times this past season when they were
good in the first half of the season.
They're very, very good. So I think the narrative takes
over and people talk down, you know, what he was building
there. Of course, it got, you know,
clouded by 22 losses. So yeah, that's why I say you

(40:35):
understand it, but you've got toscratch the surface and look a
little bit deeper. That's why I sort of disagree.
But I I await and any news at any point on, on what the big
fella does next, because I'll certainly be following along for
sure. Yeah, well, hopefully he gets a
good gig as well and whoever gets him will be lucky to have
him. I'm certain of that.

(40:55):
But yeah, again, I just mentioned it back before.
It's just you got to sacrifice something to get to where you
want to be as well. And the fact that like any
Tottenham fan, you ask whether they'd prefer to finish top 4
without a trophy or even top five top 6 without a trophy
would would also prefer to finish 16th or 17th whenever
they did finish and win any trophy.
But the fact that they won a Europa League trophy which got

(41:18):
them into Champions League anyway, they are essentially
going to be able to be in a position where they can compete
in all competitions, whether theboard backs them or not.
Angepostakogi was in a situationwhere he was going to be able to
compete for Champions League or the domestic cups end the
season. So yeah, it just kind of shocked
me. And even with the acquisition of
Thomas Frank, I know he's a goodmanager, I know he's done a lot

(41:38):
of things for Brentford, but canwe really sit there and say that
he's miles clear of Ange Pasakogli in sense of what he's
done? That's why I I.
Reckon it's the that any decision was a risk, but I think
that ended up actually taking a bigger risk in changing the
coach than just sticking with Ange for one more season.
But you know, all the best to him.

(42:00):
Yeah, yeah, hopefully. Like I I like Thomas Frank so
I'm not too bummed and don't want him to not me too.
But I've been awful to try and like I've got nothing to I hope
he works out. He seems like a good dude.
So I don't want to like, you know, crap on him.
I disagree with the board's decision, But after that, you
know, who do you bring in? Probably a guy like him.

(42:21):
So, you know, I, I, I try to be careful not to, not to wish him
I'll because he's just the poor guy they brought in.
He's, you know, he's not. He didn't fire Ange, you know.
That's true, totally true. And I wanted to get into this
and I, I know you mentioned it before and it's something that
I, I kind of want to talk about unfiltered and raw because if
I'm honest, I don't have solutions or things or ways to

(42:45):
feel how Australian football canimprove here.
I know and just paved the way for a lot of Australian coaches
that are up and coming. But for your kind of knowledge
and I just want to go through a whole discussion on this.
I didn't really have questions. I don't feel like we can just
bounce through these ideas, likewhat is the issue of Australian
football and how can we get better?
Like, I know it's such a easy, vague question, but I just want

(43:07):
to pick your brain in that sinceyou've covered so much in this
sport. Obviously there's so many like
competing sports where we've at the moment, but I feel like for
someone that loves all sports, we can just appreciate it.
Why can't we just appreciate them all, You know, why can't we
just give everyone a fair game or a fair light?
It's just, it's just, yeah, I'vegot a lot of questions on it.
Yeah, just fire away. Look, where do you start?

(43:29):
Man? I like, I literally don't know
where to start. Would be the.
First one, like how can we support him?
Like I'm an upcoming coach. I like to know what I could do
personally to these kids. Like I coach at victories pre
Academy so we've got kids that are 9/10/11 12:13 that are going
through our system. How can I guess football support
coaches like myself to develop these kids and just in general

(43:50):
look? I don't know.
In fact, you'd be a bit in a better position to answer that
question because I'm not a coach, I'm not at the.
At the. Coalface, but I just on coaches,
I would say we've never had better coaches throughout the
game in our history. I would say because look at the
amount of them who are working overseas and doing things, not
just Ang but Kevin Musket and others who are doing things

(44:13):
that, you know, we thought were not possible a short time ago.
And then, you know, coaches in Australia, I just, I think we're
doing OK in that department. We could probably do better.
Like I don't agree with the sizeof the, the cost for the

(44:33):
coaching badges and all that that you have to go through.
But I know there's reasons why it's so high.
And I don't have the answers as to how to make it cheaper so
that we can have more coaches going through them.
But I would say coaches seem to be one of the areas where we're
strongest. Yeah.
And then I. Guess the youth development's
been pretty strong as well. I know that there's heaps more

(44:56):
like budget and money coming into like pre academies and
whatnot. So to me there is like a future
for getting these talents, but how do we take them to kind of
the the next level is what I'm always wondered.
Is it a place where we just get our best players and just send
them off overseas? Our best coaches send them off
overseas? Is there a way we can sort of
keep people internally? Not really, I mean, because

(45:17):
that's what most countries do tobe honest.
It's only select handful in Europe where they become the
destination leagues and even within them there's only one
destination league really and that's the Premier League.
I think fundamentally I always think about like what's the
number one thing that we should be working towards as a game in

(45:38):
Australia? For me it's I want to see
Australia win the World Cup before I die, as impossible as
that sounds. So how do we how do we get to
that position where we need to make sure that the Socceroos are
as strong as possible? How do we do that?
Well, probably just about producing the best players we
can. And how do we do that?
Find them early in Australia, expose them early in Australia

(46:01):
and then get them to environments where they can
level up. And the more that you have, the
more players that we have playing at all levels across
Europe means the deeper the poolof players that the coach will
be able to select from. And then I just think it's a
it's a numbers game, right? Like the more to get over there,
let's let's say I'm just pickingthese numbers out of my ass

(46:23):
here. But let's say, you know,
historically over the past 10 years, we've had at any one time
100 players overseas, you know, and say that 10% of them are any
good in terms of like top level players.
So you've got 10 out of 100. Let's say five years down the
line we have 500 players. And even if it's still 10%

(46:46):
that's any good, we're talking agroup of 50 players, not ten.
And so from that standpoint, I just think that whoever's the
national coach of Australia at that time, the team can sort of
be only as good as the players they can pick from.
And if they got a deeper pool ofplayers who are playing at
higher levels, then it stands toreason that the Socceroos will

(47:10):
get better. And then hopefully one day we'll
we'll, you know, achieve that ridiculous dream of winning a
World Cup. But it's, it's all, it's all
little building blocks along theway.
I think like, you know, sometimes when you look at
situations and Australian football is a good one, it's so
big, it's so complicated. It's like, it can seem like
overwhelming or like daunting orlike, well, how do we untie

(47:31):
this, you know? But sometimes you just got to
look at it bit by bit. And when you do that, it's sort
of the path becomes clear and easy, like apply this to any
element of the game really. But there's no, I don't think
there's any silver bullet or magic formula that we're missing
that we suddenly introduce it and everything starts clicking.

(47:52):
I think it's just pretty much like anything in life is try and
figure out what the best thing is and try and do that as best
as you can within your capabilities and just keep
going. It's consistency, it's building
its culture, all things that youcan't flick your fingers and
they happen. It's like what we're talking
about before about getting into journalism And, and it's, you

(48:15):
know, it's, it's, it's about reps, you know, it's about reps
and, and get more of them as a game, as players, as clubs,
etcetera. Yeah, we, we often look for the
magic solution in Australian football.
We think is there something we can just copy from like the
French or like whoever the big country is in football at the

(48:36):
moment? What are they doing that we're
not? And the answer is nothing really
like by this, by this stage in 2025 in Australia, any any
worthy football idea, we've beenexposed to it by now.
It's about how do you execute inyour country with the setup that
you have. Yeah, that feels like a rambling

(49:00):
answer, but hopefully it made sense, no?
It's, it's, it's great insight and great input.
And it totally makes sense because I always sit there and
think like, is there something that we're not doing right?
Is there anything that can like as you said, the magic formula,
but it's so true. It's like I feel like we are
when you answer that we are doing as much as you can as we
can. When I look into like my mind
and think about coaching and think about it.
Doesn't mean we can't do better.In some ways we definitely can.

(49:24):
You know, there's always ways wecan improve.
But just like sometimes people look at it and it's like, oh,
it's all wrong or no, you're missing this one thing.
And I just don't think it's thatsimple.
Like I actually think the heart that there's not really simple
for anything that's good. There's not really a simple easy
answer. There's a hard answer and, and
the answer is invariably like, keep going, or like, or, or

(49:47):
there's, or there's probably, you know, structural things that
challenge the ability to do it in a bigger way or whatever.
But the answer to that is not give up or do something
completely different. It's keep going and hope that
over time you can shift those things.
Yeah. Do you think fans are too
negative as well? Like we don't get too much of an
attendance for for like other sports or local sports in a

(50:09):
league and stuff. And then when the Socceroos are
on, people already have this kind of negative connotation.
Do you think that impacts anything whatsoever?
Look, we probably are a little bit too negative, but I don't
know how much it actually matters.
It probably just like just makespeople just like maybe 10% more,
more depressed than they have tobe in following the game.

(50:30):
But fans are fans everywhere, all over the world.
Like I'm pretty sure the way we react to things is not that
different to how they react to things overseas or funnily
enough, you know, in Australia with in other codes.
Like we'll probably give ourselves a hard time over, you
know, certain things within the game in terms of domestic
support, not just a league, but below that as well.

(50:52):
But like the another way you canlook at it is when you know
these people just want us to be better as well.
So look, yeah, you can't get yourself bogged down in it in it
too much because the the averageAustralian football fan
definitely misses sometimes the forest for the trees.

(51:15):
But I don't think it makes a massive difference either way
for. Sure, for sure.
I think I will say this, despiteall the negativity, every World
Cup that we do go into, it feelslike we do have the Australian
spirit in every single game and we always compete.
So I don't see. Why we can't get to that next
level potentially for me, I'm thinking a bit more smaller than

(51:36):
a World Cup. I'm thinking but let's get to
1/4 final for once. Let's just break that kind of
curse in getting the round of 16.
We have a big chance to do it next year.
We've qualified. So how you feel in going into to
next year's World Cup? Obviously Tony Popovich is a bit
of a different coach to see whata henge is, but definitely a
results driven identity as well,trying to get the results and

(51:57):
trying to get victories. So take me through I guess the
whole World Cup kind of qualification.
We started really bad, but we ended up beating Japan for the
first time in like 15 years, I'mpretty sure, and then winning at
home as well in the last minute for his beige.
So there's some positives to take out of that as well.
Yeah, look. We started qualification
terribly under Arnie for those those first two games of this

(52:18):
phase. But then Papa comes in and like,
I thought the Socceroos were very stale under Arnie and
Popper came in midway through qualification with with not a
lot of wiggle room in terms of results.
So I'm sort of reserving judgement on the way they played
because I think it's very difficult to introduce, you

(52:39):
know, a whole massive new style of things in the middle of
qualification. So the good thing is he's got 12
months now to sort of improve the way we play, particularly
with the ball between now and the World Cup.
And I think he will. I like Popper a lot.
I think, you know, it's clear everything he does, he does at a
very high level, very intense, very focused.

(53:03):
And the boys have responded really well.
Like he actually couldn't ask for better, better results since
he came into the job undefeated,beat Japan and Saudi Arabia in
the same window. If you offered that when he took
over, you'd take that 100% of the time.
So the interesting thing will beOK now that he's he's laid a
good platform, particularly defensively.

(53:24):
And, you know, he's brought certainly restored some pride
into the jersey and, and, and the intensity levels of the team
have gone, you know, way up, which is great.
Now it's about how can we evolvethat in this next 12 months, all
these friendly games that we'll have.
How does he integrate some of the new young generation of

(53:45):
players, particularly who play in the in the front half like,
you know, you Sega Chiches and Erin Kunder and all that sort of
stuff? Because I think these guys as
well will also help improve the way we attack as well.
What does he do with the midfield?
How do we find a midfield combinational balance that
enables us to have more of the ball sometimes or or, you know,

(54:06):
retain the ball more effectivelyand how do we generate better
chances? These are the things he needs to
look out for the next 12 months.And the good thing is he's got
12 months to do it, which is exciting.
So I'm pretty, I'm pretty optimistic about the Socceroos
under Popper. I think he's got him heading in
a great direction at the moment.And yeah, it'll be it's an

(54:30):
interesting one with the next World Cup because I don't know
what with the expansion of 48 teams, I don't know if reaching
the like, what's what's a pass mark versus what we've done in
the past. Like it's a bit hard to know
because there's going to be, of course, a round of 32 and then a
round of 16. So what will be satisfactory for
us? Hard to say.

(54:50):
The good thing, I think we can get it.
You know, if we if we win a lot of these friendlies in the next
12 months, we'll be in pot 2 forthe draw, which means we, you
know, we've got a better chance of a better group, which means
God, look, I don't know what it means.
We'll find out when the draw's done and all that, but it's a
different World Cup obviously format and so therefore when
you're looking at what's what's what, what are we after?

(55:13):
Hard to say, depends how things pan out.
It sort of really depends as yousaid on our kind of group, like
if we do end up getting like Ange got stitched up with his
group. I find that if he had a stronger
group back in 2014 or a weaker group, sorry would have been
easier for him to get out the way when?
You look at the projected pots, we still could get stitched up
even if we end up in Part 2, because I'm pretty sure the last
one I saw had like Greece and Italy in Part 4.

(55:39):
So there's a, there's a possibility where you could have
like a group of say, Spain, Australia, Italy and someone
else from part three who is verygood.
And it's like, well, you thoughtthis 4018 World Cup was supposed
to be easier, but apparently not.
Yeah, which part are we like? So what we're aiming for two,

(55:59):
we're set on 2 at the moment, atthe moment.
We're like the top of three and going into two depending on FIFA
rankings, I think, although I don't know off the top of my
head how it works. All I do I know is when I'm back
in the office next week, I'm probably going to plan a story
just sort of explaining it to belike, you know, give people an
understanding of why these friendlies over the next year,

(56:22):
the results actually do matter because they factor into the the
possibility of an easier path ofthe World Cup or not.
Yeah, I wouldn't. Have that.
Basically, the more games we winfrom here, the more likely it is
that we'll be in Part 2 versus Part 3 because we're just on the
threshold at the moment. OK, well, looking for a Part 2.
Aiming is the ideal and obviously depending on Europe,

(56:44):
Europe's obviously a tough confederation, hopefully not too
many big teams in top 4, pop 4 as well.
So we'll look up on that. And I think when you say that we
have a year to go until the World Cup, we've got a lot of a
league, young stars that are getting signed potentially by a
lot of European teams as well. So hopefully those certain
players that are going to get signed have good seasons as well
and make a really big push for getting into the Socceroos.

(57:08):
So I suppose for Speaking of theWorld Cup, as we mentioned, do
you plan to obviously cover the World Cup there?
Is that one of your goals or have you covered World Cups
before from memory? Like, been there actually men's.
Men's World Cup's only won and that was Qatar.
And it was a good experience, but it left me feeling like I
haven't really covered a World Cup because it was so different

(57:31):
to, you know, you're expecting the party atmosphere in the
streets and all that. And I just, that wasn't there in
Qatar. The benefit was though, that
everything was in driving distance basically.
So there were times when like you wake up one day and it's
like, well, soccer is aren't on today.
What can what, what games can wego see?
And all of the options are available.
Man, I remember I went to England versus Iran in the group

(57:53):
stage and England were like smashing him.
And it was a boring game. And I left at half time because
I got a notification saying thatMessi was doing a press
conference in like the main media area of the tournament.
And so I literally just legged it, got an Uber to the place and
just sat in on this messy press conference.
So you can't do that in a normalWorld Cup because you're all

(58:15):
over the country. But I also want to experience a
World Cup where you can like, you know, do World Cup things in
the streets, put it that way. Although this being America now,
who knows where what might be possible and what what what
might be off limits by the time by the time the World Cup runs

(58:36):
around with the with the orange man in charge.
But no, I just want that, you know, I wish I've done more
World Cups. I haven't because I'm really
looking forward to this one and hopefully it's the experience
that I'm sort of imagining in myhead.
Yeah. Well, three countries this year,
three sort of different countries as well I'd love to go
to. Mexico as well too.
Mexico seems like a cool countryand even Canada as well.

(59:00):
So like it's a, it's a good one.So I'm keen for that.
I did obviously did the Women's World Cup here last year and
then, you know, I'll look ahead in 2027.
The Women's World Cup is in Brazil and I just think that
would be an amazing experience. You know, having not covered
2014 in Brazil for the men, the ability to cover a World Cup in

(59:21):
Brazil would be amazing. Bucket this shit.
So hopefully, hopefully that happens too, yeah.
I'm hoping for it to. I'm hoping to go as well.
I definitely want to go to Mexico.
I've been learning Spanish. I've been telling people on this
project I've been learning Spanish.
So just trying to utilise the language in another country but
in a World Cup setting would be unreal as well.

(59:43):
And I've always wanted to experience just like the culture
aspect of it. Like I love to obviously go into
the stadium and watch a footballmatch as well, but inherently
just seeing kind of the atmosphere and all the different
countries around the world congregate into like 1 country
and one city is something that Ijust find extremely.
Like fascinating and exciting and just seeing everyone's fan
perspectives, how happy they areand kind of how excited they are

(01:00:06):
for games and just how they connect with with the world as
well is something that I'm extremely excited about.
I think when people talk about Qatar, yes, maybe it wasn't like
that party situation or not, butI feel as though regardless of
where you are situated in the World Cup, you're going to have
people from around the world coming.
And I feel like it's just one place where everyone just kind

(01:00:27):
of like congregates together so.Totally, yeah, which is why I
also think, you know, and I think it will happen, but like,
we've got to have a World Cup here one day.
Like we'll, we'll, it will be unbelievable.
And I think the world actually knows that.
I was listening to the football ramble the other day, the
podcasts, and they were doing like a mailbag segment where it

(01:00:49):
was like, you know, where where should the World Cup go next in
future, though it hasn't been before.
And the obvious answer that everyone had was like, well,
Australia, like they do sport events as good as anyone.
And you just know that we'd freaking smash it like it would.
And it's not even patriotism to say we would have the best World
Cup ever. We legitimately would have the
best World Cup ever. We've.

(01:01:10):
Proven that we've we've all of the events who have F1 here
we've got U.S. Open here why wouldn't we be
able to have the world's biggesttournament you know Olympics too
coming up the only thing that. Stops us is politics, but even
then, it can't stop us forever. It will happen one day.
Yeah, I'm manifesting it and I think the the Women's World Cup

(01:01:30):
proved that we can really host good tournaments as well, 100%.
And I'm. Keen to like once the World Cup
comes, obviously they're probably going to have to make a
few more stadiums. It'd be awesome to see state of
the art footballing stadiums as well.
They're not needing to do too many, but maybe one or two
random state of the art facilities, stadiums.
It'd be kind of cool. Help us.
Yeah. Tell us about it, Hunter said.
Let us take it and grab it. But yeah, one day, when do you,

(01:01:53):
when do you think it would be likely if you were to predict
which year the World Cup would be?
Obviously we're not going to have 20-30 or 2034, probably not
2038. But where are we aiming?
I. Actually think 2038's a
possibility because you look at it with the rotation policy.
I wrote about this like last year or whatever, so I might

(01:02:15):
have the details wrong, but I'm pretty sure the only country
stays eligible for 2038 or so. One of one of the only
confederations that should be open to bid for 2038 is Oceania.
Now clearly Oceania can't do it themselves and clearly we're not
in Oceania anymore. But if I'm FIFA and I'm looking
at that, that's clearly an opportunity for an Asia Pacific

(01:02:38):
World Cup where it could be Australia, New Zealand, probably
Indonesia as well. Similar model to the, the World
Cup next year. And I think that would be
amazing, like a like a, you know, a World Cup for this part
of the world, which has never happened before.
If, if the rotation policy says it's Oceania's turn next, then

(01:03:01):
we have to be involved. It will FIFA has two choices.
One is skip Oceania completely, which I don't think they could
justify or OK, it's Oceania's turn.
We're going to have to bend the rules a little bit because the
confederation can't do it by themselves.
So you open the door then for Australia, Indonesia, New
Zealand, boom and you've got an amazing World Cup there with a

(01:03:22):
lot of diversity too. You've got the Kiwi side of
things. Have a freaking.
I don't know if you could build a state.
I know there's a stadium there, but imagine like a 40,000 seater
in Bali. Well, to be fair, getting
getting around Bali is not good.So maybe maybe skip Bali unless
everyone's going to be taking goGX to the stadium.
Just have like. The screens on Finn's Beach bar
or something? Yeah, I know.

(01:03:44):
But that's I honestly don't think 2038 is out of the realms
of possibility and if not then then soon after that.
But 38 get around it, it's a good time.
If we do a really, if we have a really successful Olympics, then
why would they not think that we're able to host the world's
like signing on the world stage,like you make the most sense to
have a six years, 38. I'll be 48, you know, still a

(01:04:05):
little bit life left in me. Yeah, it's got a bit of wheels
to your 50 and hit the halfway point and you've pretty much
achieved everything in football by then, you'd say.
And then the last thing you needis on the other side of 50,
Australia winning the World Cup,that would be.
Amazing, yeah. That could potentially happen,
but I guess other than football and the sport that we covered,

(01:04:25):
edge ball, is there anything else you wanted to talk about in
the realm of sports? As you know, we cover a lot of
sports here on my podcast, so anything that excites you,
Obviously the Finals, you end upwatching the NBA Finals.
No man, I don't. I'm sorry.
Not cricket. Basketball.
Actually played a lot of basketball at school.
I was terrible, but I was a goodenough 3 point shooter for like

(01:04:48):
a six month period in year 12 toget into like our first five.
But I never got into watching basketball very much or like
love playing NBA Live on PlayStation when I was at uni
all the time. But I just never made that leap
into having a team or watching it and being invested.
So no, I haven't been into the finals.

(01:05:10):
Man, as much as I love sport, I'm not really that like I'll
watch anything. But like in terms of things that
actually interest me deeply, aside from the Holy Trinity that
I mentioned earlier, it doesn't doesn't bother me too much.
Like even the AFL at the moment,I'm a bit of let's slide just
because Port Adelaide are useless.

(01:05:30):
Like I don't know how we we should have beaten the Swans the
other day. It is what it is.
And then, yeah, what's the otherone in the Holy Trinity?
Cricket man, just looking forward to.
Yeah. So my colleague at the moment,
Tom is in is in the West Indies.What a what a gig that is to
follow the follow the team around.
So interesting sort of period ahead.

(01:05:51):
Then we've got an Ashes to look forward to as well, which would
be, I'm hoping to sort of be involved in the coverage
somewhere, probably like fourth or fifth string cricket writer
for the Herald by the end, but Idon't care.
As long as I can get into a couple of grounds.
I'll be happy. Run the live blog if I need to,
yeah. For sure.
How do you think of we'll go up there in the West Indies?

(01:06:12):
You haven't played in the Caribbean for over 10 years it
seems, so it'd be pretty exciting.
We should probably be winning right this series.
The West Indies aren't what theyused to be, but I just want to
see a little bit more solidity in the batting lineup.
I'd like to see, like to see Constance prove a few people
wrong who already sort of like decided that he's a he's an

(01:06:33):
immature slog slog merchant. I'd just like to see him have a
couple of good, good, solid innings, a little bit of
regeneration, not too much, a little bit as needed.
Yeah, I just want to see some good, good confident cricket,
some good batting and and some steps forward from him in
particular. Sure and then the ashes coming
up super excited for that as well gonna always try to get to

(01:06:56):
annual Boxing Day, but nothing beats say ashes the last time I
went so Scott Bowen get his get his four wickets at the at the
last session was one of the mostunbelievable sessions as well
and he walked out right to our Bay.
I'm pretty sure there's a photo of me and my mates just in like
cricket polo tops in the big Bunnings bucket hats just
supporting him after that that session as well.

(01:07:17):
And then he topped it off the next day and just we.
Beat him in three days. I couldn't believe it.
It's so good. Yeah, I've got.
To get to a Boxing Day test that's on my bucket list.
Never done it. Unbelievable.
Like the atmosphere's incredible.
And even last year when Sam Concert's opening, the batting,
that's where he was. He's made his debut and was
doing all those Ram shots, hitting for six as well people

(01:07:37):
as well. That was mental.
That was mental. Yeah, I love cricket, man.
Honestly, I could talk about it for a long time, especially when
the summer ramps up. I feel like it gets a bad rap
because it's perceived as boring, but I kind of love the
art of Test cricket as well. I'm not really a big 2020 fan
personally because of the yeah me.
Either slugging. Me either.
Can't get into it, don't have a big batch team, not interested,

(01:08:00):
but I'll watch a Test match anytime.
Yeah, but I feel like, you know,footy and football, you know
both. Needless to say, ball sports,
foot like teams sports, like in terms of the balls in the field,
perpetual motion and all that. You need, for me at least in
terms of the Holy Trinity, you need a different one to balance

(01:08:21):
it out. And like, you know, if we're
Americans, baseball would take that position in our sort of
cultural space. But like a good bat sport, man,
is like, it's fucking. It's great, you know?
Yeah. Can't be completely different.
Rhythms. One of the things I like about
cricket is just like it's team sport, but it's also individual
based in terms of battles between individuals and just all

(01:08:44):
the different sort of traditionsand like the stats.
You can go so deep with whateverand there's so many different
ways to tell stories because theformat is so different versus
football. Like, you know, head to head,
people talk about head to head battles in football in terms of
like centre backs versus a striker or whatever, but how

(01:09:05):
much does that actually happen on the field versus like
everyone's going to be looking forward the next time that
Australia plays India, Constanceversus freaking Boomer.
Do you know what I mean? Like that's a head to head
battle. It's almost like like boxing
within a team sport in terms of just like the the psychological,
It's mad. I love cricket and.
The storylines, yeah, yeah, you love the drama as well.

(01:09:27):
And especially like how like even our media and stuff like
wrongfully treat India at the times of wrongly treat like the
opposition teams. But it just creates that battle
and that storyline that just propels like the, the, the
rivalry and also makes it like go to next level.
Like I know when England's goingto come here, there's going to
be the hostility. They give us stuff about the,

(01:09:48):
the sandpaper. It's just, it's just crazy.
I just love, I love the like little dramas that come from it
because it's meant to be a gentleman's game.
But there's so many intricacies involved that like I think
people love to talk about in cricket and it's, it's amazing.
Yeah, it's awesome. That's awesome.
Yeah, but. Anyway, we'll finish that off
here, Vince, really appreciate you getting on the pod talking

(01:10:08):
all things Ange Bowl, all thingsfootball, all things sports in
general as well towards the end.But guys, if you are keen for
reading Ange Bowl, check it out on Amazon.
I'm pretty sure it's on as well.Amazon.
Wherever, to be honest, whereveryou can get your hands on it, do
it, You know, not just for me. I appreciate people, you know,

(01:10:30):
supporting the book, but just like literally get to know this
guy's journey a little bit more if you don't know it, because
it's certainly not finished, that's for sure.
There's, there's more to come, but it's just such an amazing
story, you know, and I'm, I'm just the guy who told it on this
occasion, but I just, you know, anyone who likes to get behind
Aussies in sport, you know, it'snot too late to to clue up on

(01:10:52):
the whole Angeboxagogly journey before he before he turns up at
another club and and does the same magic again.
For sure. And look out for his stories on
the Sydney Morning Herald. I heard you got a few coming up.
You said on this episode. So personally, I'm excited to to
read those and and kind of dive into those stories too.
So yeah, thank you so much for getting onto the pod and guys, I

(01:11:15):
will leave it at that until nextweek.
Cheers. So that's a.
Wrap for this weeks episode of The Huddle Within podcast.
I appreciate you for tuning in and being part of this community
where we go beyond the game and into what really matters.
If this episode resonated with you, make sure to subscribe,
leave a review, and share it with someone who sees sports
just the way that we do. And hey, I'd love to hear from

(01:11:35):
you. Connect with me on my social
medias, which will be linked below, send in your thoughts and
even be part of a future episode.
Until next time, keep that passion alive, stay in the
huddle, and remember it's alwaysdeeper than the game.
Cheers.