November 18, 2024 • 20 mins
Michael Coles delves into the profound reality of autistic burnout, sharing how masking and the demands of navigating school, work, and social environments contributed to his experiences. He opens up about the emotional and physical toll of burnout, offering insights into his recovery journey and the strategies that have helped him rebuild.
Michael also highlights the importance of community and self-acceptance in finding balance and thriving as an autistic person.
Connect with Michael:
Website: http://www.deepdiveau.net
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thedeepdiveau/
Tiktok: http://www.tiktok.com/@thedeepdiveau & http://www.tiktok.com/@michaelcoles3
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/the-deep-dive-podcast
YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/@TheDeepDiveAU
Connect with Peta:
Instagram: @petahooke
Website: www.icantstandpodcast.com
Email: icantstandpodcast@gmail.com
Episode Transcript:https://www.icantstandpodcast.com
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Hello, and welcome to the I Can't Stand Podcast. The
podcast answering your questions on what life is like when
you have a disability. My name is Peter, I have
cerebral palsy and I'm your host. This week, I have
Michael Coles. Michael is autistic and experienced autistic burnout, a
(00:28):
really important topic that I think we should all better understand. So,
without any further ado, here is Michael.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
I'm Michael Coles. I'm a forty nine year old autistic
being diagnosed three times. Firstly with PITDNS Beckett when I
was three, back in nineteen seventy eight. Secondly, I was
diagnosed the second time with Asperger syndro back in twenty
ten when I was thirty five, and also rediagnosed with
autism spectrum disorder back in twenty seventeen.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
When did you first start to suspect that you had autism?
Speaker 2 (01:11):
Michael, My mum and basically my dad sort of thought
that my speech was quite delayed. So I knew my
speech was very delayed and stuff like that. And I
knew that, you know, I wasn't sort of like a typical,
sort of normal, sort of like you know child, I
really suspected that I actually had autism and stuff like
(01:31):
that when I was diagnosed with as spurgis syndrome back
in twenty ten. But back then it was actually quite demonized.
At first, I didn't really understand my condition or accept
my condition because I thought it was basically sort of
acting normal and stuff like that for about like thirty
four thirty five years of my life. I first start
getting meltdowns in twenty sixteen, when I actually had to
(01:53):
go to hospital and stuff like that for a meltdown
and stuff like that. After that, basically I got called
into the office and basically I got told to concentrate
and then sort of like you know, and then last
year I had a sort of some problems at work
and stuff like that relation to sort of like you know,
people leaving and then sort of like you know, new
people starting and then sort of like denigrating my work.
(02:15):
I had a meltdown which caused me to go to hospital.
Speaker 1 (02:19):
And you said it was quite demonized. We felt it
was quite demonized when you were younger. How was autism
framed to you by professionals and family at the time.
Speaker 2 (02:29):
It was sort of like, you know, I felt like
I needed to continue just being normal and stuff like
that and basically pretending to be normal that in the
last couple of years, I know, a lot of people
on TikTok and through social media are basically sort of
living their best lives and stuff like that even though
they have autism. So it's sort of like, you know,
it kind of inspired me because obviously my daughters, but
(02:52):
now being diagnosed and stuff like that with autism as well,
it was basically sort of my chance to sort of
like you know, like relate to my daughter. And it's
better to sort of, like you know, sort of accept
me for who I am and as I authentically are,
rather than sort of, like you know, pretend that I'm
something I'm not.
Speaker 1 (03:12):
And I know I haven't sent you this question, so
it's okay if you don't want to answer it, But
do you wish you would diagnosed sooner?
Speaker 2 (03:20):
I have to be honest and stuff like that. I mean,
I kind of sort of wish I did, But at
the same time, I wish there was more acceptance sooner.
So there's a lot more acceptance now than there was, like,
you know, even ten fifteen years ago, because I think
sort of like people are sort of courageous to actually
get diagnosed now, and I just feel like there's more
(03:41):
of the population that it is being diagnosed and stuff
like that. So therefore, obviously the more population that gets diagnosed,
the more sort of like you know, services that you
can get, all the more help you can get. So
it's now becoming a bit more accepted within our community.
We're becoming more an inclusive care community rather and a
(04:01):
exclusive community. If that makes sense.
Speaker 1 (04:04):
No, it totally does. So when you reflect back, what
was school like for you?
Speaker 2 (04:11):
School was a bit mixed. I mean I had some
good sort of primary school years, but at high school
was actually bullied quite a fair bit. They could tell
that it makes you different, but I didn't sort of
like know how my difference did affect me and stuff
like that because there wasn't any knowledge out there. I
think the sort of like you know, the diagnosis wasn't
(04:33):
there or these sort of like you know, even like
expurgier syndrome didn't actually come into being until nineteen ninety four,
so that was like two years after I left high school.
So that was sort of like, you know, the awareness
wasn't around. There's still that sort of like that discrimination
stuff like that were some schools, because we've had to
(04:54):
change schools with my daughter, like last year because of
the discrimination. But she's got so many, so much better
support now than she had her other school.
Speaker 1 (05:03):
So I'm assuming with the experience of your daughter, you're
coming at it from a different, completely different lens because
you have your experience and you have her experience. But
based on your knowledge now what you wish your school
would have put in place to make you feel more included, confident,
(05:25):
and comfortable at school.
Speaker 2 (05:28):
Look in my daughter's school now, they've actually sort of
like you know, got the got it like a sort
of separate crit room pretty much esteined it. So basically,
if this sort of like you know, they felt like
the environments too much, or they sort of like, you know,
the noises too much and stuff like that, they can
go and regulate in this particular room. So basically, separate
reams will be a start. I kind of sort of
(05:49):
when I was in high school myself, I kind of
was a library person, So I kind of stuck to
the library because it was a nice quiet place anyway,
So that was that was sort of my sanction. To
a degree, has.
Speaker 1 (06:02):
Finding the autistic community impacted you personally.
Speaker 2 (06:07):
In the last twelve months, it's been fantastic to actually
sort of link in with quite a few, quite a
number of people from the autistic community. Firstly, I've been
joining a group called New Excess, which one of your
guest previous guests adding Crow, actually runs. It's a fantastic group.
And I'm also sort of like part of the Neurodivension
Business Collective, which I've been able to sort of like
(06:30):
grow my podcast like numbers and all that type of stuff,
and also sort of like you know, doing the Deep
Dope podcast which actually I produced and stuff like that.
I had to produce hosts that type of thing. It's
actually sort of a good too. It was actually good
to sort of link with other autistic people as well,
so I know, sort of like they are living their
best lives as well. I think it sort of like
(06:52):
typifies like you know, the standard now compared to what
it was before, there's a lot more support out there,
so from for neurodivenson individuals, I've met a lot of
great people and stuff like that which I didn't have
access to before. I just feel like I just feel
like so enriched and stuff like that by you know,
other autistic people and stuff like that in the community,
(07:14):
which are doing great things. It's sort of like, you know,
it's cathartic to sort of know how they can sort
of like, you know, how can I better understand autistic
people and how can I sort of like you know,
understand like others and stuff like that on the autism spectrum,
because I think it's so important to sort of know
that sort of things those things in the first place.
Speaker 1 (07:37):
Thinking back to when you were first entering the workforce,
I know you've touched on working, but I really want
to deep dive into this with you. How did you
envision work life to be.
Speaker 2 (07:50):
It was a bit of a different story and stuff
like that because in my first full time JOBB was
I was bullied as well, because I think when I
was about twenty years old, I tried to sort of
like look for work about six months, visited businesses, putting
in my brish main all that type of thing, and
then I finally got work, and then I was bullied
it because it was enough as genior and stuff like that,
because you know, people suspected I was a little bit
(08:11):
different and stuff like that, and they sort of like
clued on to that and they sort of bullied me
because of it. I got out of the job after
about eighteen months because I got retrenched luckily. And then
I sort of like, you know, I was working in
one of the big banks and stuff like that for
about twenty one years, which I had some good moments
and some sort of not so good moments, but instead
(08:33):
of like you know, towards the end it wasn't so good.
And then basically my last workplace and stuff like that
was really good at the start, but then sort of
like you know, people left and then they bullied me
and stuff like that out of work. So I don't
know why, but it's just, you know, I just feel
like I worked a little bit differently to some others
and stuff like that, even though I present like I
(08:54):
put it together like a little sort of like a
blurb basically sort of presenting how I actually sort of
work and how my autism affects me. Having those type
of documents in hand can really sort of help. But
at the same time, if they don't understand in the
first place, it's a bit of a struggle.
Speaker 1 (09:13):
And do you feel it sounds like you well, I'm
not going to assume do you feel that it's improving
or is it just in you know, workplace to workplace,
What do you feel it is like to be employed
as an autistic person.
Speaker 2 (09:30):
There's still a long way to go. I think with
the open pine officers is it's basically a big killer
because the environment is also sort of like you know,
the bright lights, because you need to sort of find
out what accommodations can be done and stuff like that,
and what accommodations are willing to be done. That's still
a big struggle as well. So I think from the
workplace's point of view, there's still quite a bit to go.
(09:53):
I know some autistic people that have created their valuing
businesses they can they say they can hire new division
people and autistic people to be able to sort of
like you know, have their best life in the workplace.
But in the general sense, there's still a long way
to go.
Speaker 1 (10:11):
I really want to talk to you about burnout, because
I know you're a big advocate of talking about burnout,
particularly autistic burnout. What were the initial signs for you?
Speaker 2 (10:23):
I don't tolerate stress too well. Basically what occurred is
basically sort of like you know, there was people changing
and then they sort of like you know, changed all
these sort of like you know, the styles and stuff
like that to work that I was used to be doing.
It basically changed dramatically in a very short space of time.
You basically get trained and stuff like that in like
(10:45):
in a few systems that basically does work for you,
but then they sort of change it. We don't like
you doing this this way anymore. So it's basically sort
of caused a lot of stress. It caused a lot
of anxiety, It caused a lot of tiredness. Basically it
was like drowning in a big pool and stuff like that.
So it was like, you know, they're basically piling at
(11:06):
the work on top of me. So I text my
wife basically saying, I don't want to do this job anymore.
But I couldn't last or ten o'clock because basically I
rang the one three health number, which is the health
number here in Queensland, and I got advised to be
taken to hospital.
Speaker 1 (11:23):
Yeah, okay, that's a huge thing to have to go through.
I'm sorry, sorry.
Speaker 2 (11:31):
M it is. Yeah, an autistic benind is so real.
And there's a lot of people they're basically saying, it's
like it's all in your head and stuff like that,
so it should be there needs to be a lot
of improvement in sub ways, especially in the workplace.
Speaker 1 (11:46):
And did you find that going to hospital was what
helped you.
Speaker 2 (11:52):
They took me to a mental health unit and stuff
like that, but it was like extremely calming, and I've
basically sort of like you know, that it allowed me
to sort of like you know, wind down and basically
sort of sleep it off, which I think was really
good to the sense. But they sort of felt they
did feel like they I needed some more time off
to be able to sort of like you know, to
(12:14):
where you actually recover. And then I've basically went back
to my GP and then it basically they advised me
to resign from a workplace and find a lot better
work that will actually suit me.
Speaker 1 (12:26):
And do you feel that the need for masking contributed
to your burnout?
Speaker 2 (12:32):
Michael, Yes, significantly. Actually, I think sort of, like you know,
for you know, for quite a fair while, for about
forty nine years, I was trying to sort of basically
sort of like you know, people pleased to my detromat
to be honest, But the problem with that is basically
it's you're not living your life authentically. I think people
(12:55):
got to realize that basically you need to sort of
set boundaries for yourself, and I made the big mistake
of not sending boundaries for myself and not sort of
communicating those boundaries too well. I think at the same time,
it's also the workplace's fault, because I mean, they didn't
sort of advocate for my needs and stuff like that,
even though they knew I had autism. So I mean,
(13:16):
I was diagnosed before I went into my last job,
and I got it through disability service providers. They basically
knew that I had autism. It was going so well
and stuff like that that you sort of like, you know,
they sort of said, ah, it doesn't exist anymore. But
it's sort of like it's like it's episodic and stuff
like that comes up from time to time to time,
(13:38):
depending on you know, have you been bullied and stuff
like that, Have you been sort of like stressed if
there's a lot of life offens going on. When there's
sort of a lot going on and stuff like that,
you just basically can't cope and you're trying to communicate that,
and you can't communicate that, so you've got that other
barrier as well. I'm still recovering from it now, sort
(14:00):
of like I only went into sort of like you know,
some casual work and stuff like that back last month.
I've been able to access therapies through the NDAES, which
I've never been able to do before. It was able
to access occupational therapy, speech therapy and psychology and stuff
like that in a regular basis without the indees. Where
(14:20):
would I be or would actually sort of like having
to put out fires pretty much all the time and
still like you know, I struggle, but I'm not struggling
quite as much now.
Speaker 1 (14:31):
That's really great to hear. Apart from the therapies that
you've implemented in your life, have there been any other
strategies that you've implemented to help with your recovery.
Speaker 2 (14:44):
Well, basically, I'm sort of working sort of like you know,
two part time jobs or two casual jobs instead of
the one full time job, so I don't feel like
I've been letting the team down or if I sort
of like you know, leave my job or something like
that because of my autism and stuff like that, sort
of like you know, if one past doesn't work, I
can basically go to another part. At least I've been
(15:06):
able to be present for my daughter rather than sort
of like you know, not be present, which I was before.
So it's sort of like it's better for me in
that sort of sense to be able to sort of
do that.
Speaker 1 (15:17):
And also you're illustrating to her what an autistic life
can be, So that's really important.
Speaker 2 (15:24):
Yeah, exactly, because I think instead of like living the
best life is, I think having a better life that
it's happy, that is a happier life. I think it's
better for us autistics rather than instead of like you know,
having a bit of a miserable one, like you know,
like I was sort of feeling on and off for
about last forty nine years.
Speaker 1 (15:45):
I'm pleased to hear that you're on the happier side
of life. Michael. That's really good. Do you believe burnout
is experienced differently by autistic people compared to non autistic.
Speaker 2 (15:57):
People a lot differently. Your brain sort of works about
ten times harder than what it's actually supposed to be,
so you sort of like you know, feel it much faster,
you feel it much harder. You can't sort of like
deal with things and stuff like that, or you can't
deal with too much all at the same time because
you're only really you can only sort of have a
(16:17):
bit of a limit or something like that where to
feel stable and to feel sort of regulated and stuff.
If your feelings are basically like a two, you can
handle strands dressed a lot better, whereas basically if it
sort of goes up to about ten and stuff like that,
well you're sort of like, you know, react in a
way that's sort of like you can't cope and stuff
like that. So it's sort of it's not great for
(16:39):
your mental health. And it's also the fact is, basically
you're dealing with a lot more stuff and stuff like
that then a normal person dealing with burnout does. For
us autistics, it's a lot harder.
Speaker 1 (16:54):
So what advice do you have for autistic people in
the community managing or avoiding burnout, especially in considering work
or social environments.
Speaker 2 (17:07):
I think sort of like being sort of like a
partly self employed person is actually sort of quite a
good idea. I think with self employment you can actually
sort of control, like, you know, the environment. You can
sort of like work from home. You can control the environment,
you can control the style of work, you know, control
the way you actually work as well, because I think
(17:27):
sort of like working for an employer you have to
sort of like you know, do do it kind of
their way. But it's sort of like being self employed
you can actually sort of like you know, have that
get that sense of control back, which I think sort
of like it's really essential to have that control of
the lighting, control of the mood. We can even like
you know, basically sort of like you know, wear headphones
(17:49):
and stuff like that and just to music and sort
of work our lives away and stuff like that. We
can sort of like you know, work at different times
of the day.
Speaker 1 (17:58):
For those among us who are herotypical, how can we
best support autistic people to prevent burnout?
Speaker 2 (18:06):
Firstly, you need to sort of like you know, talk
to well, basically talk to the professionals and stuff like
that that are dealing with the sort of like you know,
dealing with the person, like the psychologists, a speech therapist,
the occupational therapist, any other hal I help them, providers,
the GP and stuff like that talk to each other
because I think sort of like getting a full picture
(18:28):
and stuff like that on how they can sort of
like help is really essential and stuff like that. To that,
I think sort of like having some accommodations that would
actually suit the person and trying to sort of create
an environment that actually suits the person as well. You
can control the environment, control the sound, smells and stuff
(18:48):
like that so you don't get overstimulated and stuff like that,
and then you can sort of like, you know, I know,
you can be in your own little bubble. But that's
sort of like if if it works that way for you,
I think it's better to do that that way.
Speaker 1 (19:05):
Thank you for listening to this week's episode. I hope
you enjoyed it. Don't forget you can always leave a
rating and review on whatever platform you're listening on. Please
just fill in the stars or share the show with
a friend so more people find out the podcast exists.
(19:26):
You can always follow me over on Instagram. My handle
is at Peter Hook spelt p e t a h ok.
Or you can send me an email I Can't stand
podcast at gmail dot com. Thank you so much for listening,
and thank you Michael for your time. Until next week,
(19:48):
have a good one, guys. Bye. I would like to
respectfully acknowledge that Will Wondery and Bunner wrong people of
the call a nation of which I record the podcast
to day, and I pay my respects to both elders
past and present, along with and especially to those in
(20:13):
the First Nation's communities who are disabled themselves
Hello, and welcome to the I Can't Stand Podcast. The
podcast answering your questions on what life is like when
you have a disability. My name is Peter, I have
cerebral palsy and I'm your host. This week, I have
Michael Coles. Michael is autistic and experienced autistic burnout, a
(00:28):
really important topic that I think we should all better understand. So,
without any further ado, here is Michael.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
I'm Michael Coles. I'm a forty nine year old autistic
being diagnosed three times. Firstly with PITDNS Beckett when I
was three, back in nineteen seventy eight. Secondly, I was
diagnosed the second time with Asperger syndro back in twenty
ten when I was thirty five, and also rediagnosed with
autism spectrum disorder back in twenty seventeen.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
When did you first start to suspect that you had autism?
Speaker 2 (01:11):
Michael, My mum and basically my dad sort of thought
that my speech was quite delayed. So I knew my
speech was very delayed and stuff like that. And I
knew that, you know, I wasn't sort of like a typical,
sort of normal, sort of like you know child, I
really suspected that I actually had autism and stuff like
(01:31):
that when I was diagnosed with as spurgis syndrome back
in twenty ten. But back then it was actually quite demonized.
At first, I didn't really understand my condition or accept
my condition because I thought it was basically sort of
acting normal and stuff like that for about like thirty
four thirty five years of my life. I first start
getting meltdowns in twenty sixteen, when I actually had to
(01:53):
go to hospital and stuff like that for a meltdown
and stuff like that. After that, basically I got called
into the office and basically I got told to concentrate
and then sort of like you know, and then last
year I had a sort of some problems at work
and stuff like that relation to sort of like you know,
people leaving and then sort of like you know, new
people starting and then sort of like denigrating my work.
(02:15):
I had a meltdown which caused me to go to hospital.
Speaker 1 (02:19):
And you said it was quite demonized. We felt it
was quite demonized when you were younger. How was autism
framed to you by professionals and family at the time.
Speaker 2 (02:29):
It was sort of like, you know, I felt like
I needed to continue just being normal and stuff like
that and basically pretending to be normal that in the
last couple of years, I know, a lot of people
on TikTok and through social media are basically sort of
living their best lives and stuff like that even though
they have autism. So it's sort of like, you know,
it kind of inspired me because obviously my daughters, but
(02:52):
now being diagnosed and stuff like that with autism as well,
it was basically sort of my chance to sort of
like you know, like relate to my daughter. And it's
better to sort of, like you know, sort of accept
me for who I am and as I authentically are,
rather than sort of, like you know, pretend that I'm
something I'm not.
Speaker 1 (03:12):
And I know I haven't sent you this question, so
it's okay if you don't want to answer it, But
do you wish you would diagnosed sooner?
Speaker 2 (03:20):
I have to be honest and stuff like that. I mean,
I kind of sort of wish I did, But at
the same time, I wish there was more acceptance sooner.
So there's a lot more acceptance now than there was, like,
you know, even ten fifteen years ago, because I think
sort of like people are sort of courageous to actually
get diagnosed now, and I just feel like there's more
(03:41):
of the population that it is being diagnosed and stuff
like that. So therefore, obviously the more population that gets diagnosed,
the more sort of like you know, services that you
can get, all the more help you can get. So
it's now becoming a bit more accepted within our community.
We're becoming more an inclusive care community rather and a
(04:01):
exclusive community. If that makes sense.
Speaker 1 (04:04):
No, it totally does. So when you reflect back, what
was school like for you?
Speaker 2 (04:11):
School was a bit mixed. I mean I had some
good sort of primary school years, but at high school
was actually bullied quite a fair bit. They could tell
that it makes you different, but I didn't sort of
like know how my difference did affect me and stuff
like that because there wasn't any knowledge out there. I
think the sort of like you know, the diagnosis wasn't
(04:33):
there or these sort of like you know, even like
expurgier syndrome didn't actually come into being until nineteen ninety four,
so that was like two years after I left high school.
So that was sort of like, you know, the awareness
wasn't around. There's still that sort of like that discrimination
stuff like that were some schools, because we've had to
(04:54):
change schools with my daughter, like last year because of
the discrimination. But she's got so many, so much better
support now than she had her other school.
Speaker 1 (05:03):
So I'm assuming with the experience of your daughter, you're
coming at it from a different, completely different lens because
you have your experience and you have her experience. But
based on your knowledge now what you wish your school
would have put in place to make you feel more included, confident,
(05:25):
and comfortable at school.
Speaker 2 (05:28):
Look in my daughter's school now, they've actually sort of
like you know, got the got it like a sort
of separate crit room pretty much esteined it. So basically,
if this sort of like you know, they felt like
the environments too much, or they sort of like, you know,
the noises too much and stuff like that, they can
go and regulate in this particular room. So basically, separate
reams will be a start. I kind of sort of
(05:49):
when I was in high school myself, I kind of
was a library person, So I kind of stuck to
the library because it was a nice quiet place anyway,
So that was that was sort of my sanction. To
a degree, has.
Speaker 1 (06:02):
Finding the autistic community impacted you personally.
Speaker 2 (06:07):
In the last twelve months, it's been fantastic to actually
sort of link in with quite a few, quite a
number of people from the autistic community. Firstly, I've been
joining a group called New Excess, which one of your
guest previous guests adding Crow, actually runs. It's a fantastic group.
And I'm also sort of like part of the Neurodivension
Business Collective, which I've been able to sort of like
(06:30):
grow my podcast like numbers and all that type of stuff,
and also sort of like you know, doing the Deep
Dope podcast which actually I produced and stuff like that.
I had to produce hosts that type of thing. It's
actually sort of a good too. It was actually good
to sort of link with other autistic people as well,
so I know, sort of like they are living their
best lives as well. I think it sort of like
(06:52):
typifies like you know, the standard now compared to what
it was before, there's a lot more support out there,
so from for neurodivenson individuals, I've met a lot of
great people and stuff like that which I didn't have
access to before. I just feel like I just feel
like so enriched and stuff like that by you know,
other autistic people and stuff like that in the community,
(07:14):
which are doing great things. It's sort of like, you know,
it's cathartic to sort of know how they can sort
of like, you know, how can I better understand autistic
people and how can I sort of like you know,
understand like others and stuff like that on the autism spectrum,
because I think it's so important to sort of know
that sort of things those things in the first place.
Speaker 1 (07:37):
Thinking back to when you were first entering the workforce,
I know you've touched on working, but I really want
to deep dive into this with you. How did you
envision work life to be.
Speaker 2 (07:50):
It was a bit of a different story and stuff
like that because in my first full time JOBB was
I was bullied as well, because I think when I
was about twenty years old, I tried to sort of
like look for work about six months, visited businesses, putting
in my brish main all that type of thing, and
then I finally got work, and then I was bullied
it because it was enough as genior and stuff like that,
because you know, people suspected I was a little bit
(08:11):
different and stuff like that, and they sort of like
clued on to that and they sort of bullied me
because of it. I got out of the job after
about eighteen months because I got retrenched luckily. And then
I sort of like, you know, I was working in
one of the big banks and stuff like that for
about twenty one years, which I had some good moments
and some sort of not so good moments, but instead
(08:33):
of like you know, towards the end it wasn't so good.
And then basically my last workplace and stuff like that
was really good at the start, but then sort of
like you know, people left and then they bullied me
and stuff like that out of work. So I don't
know why, but it's just, you know, I just feel
like I worked a little bit differently to some others
and stuff like that, even though I present like I
(08:54):
put it together like a little sort of like a
blurb basically sort of presenting how I actually sort of
work and how my autism affects me. Having those type
of documents in hand can really sort of help. But
at the same time, if they don't understand in the
first place, it's a bit of a struggle.
Speaker 1 (09:13):
And do you feel it sounds like you well, I'm
not going to assume do you feel that it's improving
or is it just in you know, workplace to workplace,
What do you feel it is like to be employed
as an autistic person.
Speaker 2 (09:30):
There's still a long way to go. I think with
the open pine officers is it's basically a big killer
because the environment is also sort of like you know,
the bright lights, because you need to sort of find
out what accommodations can be done and stuff like that,
and what accommodations are willing to be done. That's still
a big struggle as well. So I think from the
workplace's point of view, there's still quite a bit to go.
(09:53):
I know some autistic people that have created their valuing
businesses they can they say they can hire new division
people and autistic people to be able to sort of
like you know, have their best life in the workplace.
But in the general sense, there's still a long way
to go.
Speaker 1 (10:11):
I really want to talk to you about burnout, because
I know you're a big advocate of talking about burnout,
particularly autistic burnout. What were the initial signs for you?
Speaker 2 (10:23):
I don't tolerate stress too well. Basically what occurred is
basically sort of like you know, there was people changing
and then they sort of like you know, changed all
these sort of like you know, the styles and stuff
like that to work that I was used to be doing.
It basically changed dramatically in a very short space of time.
You basically get trained and stuff like that in like
(10:45):
in a few systems that basically does work for you,
but then they sort of change it. We don't like
you doing this this way anymore. So it's basically sort
of caused a lot of stress. It caused a lot
of anxiety, It caused a lot of tiredness. Basically it
was like drowning in a big pool and stuff like that.
So it was like, you know, they're basically piling at
(11:06):
the work on top of me. So I text my
wife basically saying, I don't want to do this job anymore.
But I couldn't last or ten o'clock because basically I
rang the one three health number, which is the health
number here in Queensland, and I got advised to be
taken to hospital.
Speaker 1 (11:23):
Yeah, okay, that's a huge thing to have to go through.
I'm sorry, sorry.
Speaker 2 (11:31):
M it is. Yeah, an autistic benind is so real.
And there's a lot of people they're basically saying, it's
like it's all in your head and stuff like that,
so it should be there needs to be a lot
of improvement in sub ways, especially in the workplace.
Speaker 1 (11:46):
And did you find that going to hospital was what
helped you.
Speaker 2 (11:52):
They took me to a mental health unit and stuff
like that, but it was like extremely calming, and I've
basically sort of like you know, that it allowed me
to sort of like you know, wind down and basically
sort of sleep it off, which I think was really
good to the sense. But they sort of felt they
did feel like they I needed some more time off
to be able to sort of like you know, to
(12:14):
where you actually recover. And then I've basically went back
to my GP and then it basically they advised me
to resign from a workplace and find a lot better
work that will actually suit me.
Speaker 1 (12:26):
And do you feel that the need for masking contributed
to your burnout?
Speaker 2 (12:32):
Michael, Yes, significantly. Actually, I think sort of, like you know,
for you know, for quite a fair while, for about
forty nine years, I was trying to sort of basically
sort of like you know, people pleased to my detromat
to be honest, But the problem with that is basically
it's you're not living your life authentically. I think people
(12:55):
got to realize that basically you need to sort of
set boundaries for yourself, and I made the big mistake
of not sending boundaries for myself and not sort of
communicating those boundaries too well. I think at the same time,
it's also the workplace's fault, because I mean, they didn't
sort of advocate for my needs and stuff like that,
even though they knew I had autism. So I mean,
(13:16):
I was diagnosed before I went into my last job,
and I got it through disability service providers. They basically
knew that I had autism. It was going so well
and stuff like that that you sort of like, you know,
they sort of said, ah, it doesn't exist anymore. But
it's sort of like it's like it's episodic and stuff
like that comes up from time to time to time,
(13:38):
depending on you know, have you been bullied and stuff
like that, Have you been sort of like stressed if
there's a lot of life offens going on. When there's
sort of a lot going on and stuff like that,
you just basically can't cope and you're trying to communicate that,
and you can't communicate that, so you've got that other
barrier as well. I'm still recovering from it now, sort
(14:00):
of like I only went into sort of like you know,
some casual work and stuff like that back last month.
I've been able to access therapies through the NDAES, which
I've never been able to do before. It was able
to access occupational therapy, speech therapy and psychology and stuff
like that in a regular basis without the indees. Where
(14:20):
would I be or would actually sort of like having
to put out fires pretty much all the time and
still like you know, I struggle, but I'm not struggling
quite as much now.
Speaker 1 (14:31):
That's really great to hear. Apart from the therapies that
you've implemented in your life, have there been any other
strategies that you've implemented to help with your recovery.
Speaker 2 (14:44):
Well, basically, I'm sort of working sort of like you know,
two part time jobs or two casual jobs instead of
the one full time job, so I don't feel like
I've been letting the team down or if I sort
of like you know, leave my job or something like
that because of my autism and stuff like that, sort
of like you know, if one past doesn't work, I
can basically go to another part. At least I've been
(15:06):
able to be present for my daughter rather than sort
of like you know, not be present, which I was before.
So it's sort of like it's better for me in
that sort of sense to be able to sort of
do that.
Speaker 1 (15:17):
And also you're illustrating to her what an autistic life
can be, So that's really important.
Speaker 2 (15:24):
Yeah, exactly, because I think instead of like living the
best life is, I think having a better life that
it's happy, that is a happier life. I think it's
better for us autistics rather than instead of like you know,
having a bit of a miserable one, like you know,
like I was sort of feeling on and off for
about last forty nine years.
Speaker 1 (15:45):
I'm pleased to hear that you're on the happier side
of life. Michael. That's really good. Do you believe burnout
is experienced differently by autistic people compared to non autistic.
Speaker 2 (15:57):
People a lot differently. Your brain sort of works about
ten times harder than what it's actually supposed to be,
so you sort of like you know, feel it much faster,
you feel it much harder. You can't sort of like
deal with things and stuff like that, or you can't
deal with too much all at the same time because
you're only really you can only sort of have a
(16:17):
bit of a limit or something like that where to
feel stable and to feel sort of regulated and stuff.
If your feelings are basically like a two, you can
handle strands dressed a lot better, whereas basically if it
sort of goes up to about ten and stuff like that,
well you're sort of like, you know, react in a
way that's sort of like you can't cope and stuff
like that. So it's sort of it's not great for
(16:39):
your mental health. And it's also the fact is, basically
you're dealing with a lot more stuff and stuff like
that then a normal person dealing with burnout does. For
us autistics, it's a lot harder.
Speaker 1 (16:54):
So what advice do you have for autistic people in
the community managing or avoiding burnout, especially in considering work
or social environments.
Speaker 2 (17:07):
I think sort of like being sort of like a
partly self employed person is actually sort of quite a
good idea. I think with self employment you can actually
sort of control, like, you know, the environment. You can
sort of like work from home. You can control the environment,
you can control the style of work, you know, control
the way you actually work as well, because I think
(17:27):
sort of like working for an employer you have to
sort of like you know, do do it kind of
their way. But it's sort of like being self employed
you can actually sort of like you know, have that
get that sense of control back, which I think sort
of like it's really essential to have that control of
the lighting, control of the mood. We can even like
you know, basically sort of like you know, wear headphones
(17:49):
and stuff like that and just to music and sort
of work our lives away and stuff like that. We
can sort of like you know, work at different times
of the day.
Speaker 1 (17:58):
For those among us who are herotypical, how can we
best support autistic people to prevent burnout?
Speaker 2 (18:06):
Firstly, you need to sort of like you know, talk
to well, basically talk to the professionals and stuff like
that that are dealing with the sort of like you know,
dealing with the person, like the psychologists, a speech therapist,
the occupational therapist, any other hal I help them, providers,
the GP and stuff like that talk to each other
because I think sort of like getting a full picture
(18:28):
and stuff like that on how they can sort of
like help is really essential and stuff like that. To that,
I think sort of like having some accommodations that would
actually suit the person and trying to sort of create
an environment that actually suits the person as well. You
can control the environment, control the sound, smells and stuff
(18:48):
like that so you don't get overstimulated and stuff like that,
and then you can sort of like, you know, I know,
you can be in your own little bubble. But that's
sort of like if if it works that way for you,
I think it's better to do that that way.
Speaker 1 (19:05):
Thank you for listening to this week's episode. I hope
you enjoyed it. Don't forget you can always leave a
rating and review on whatever platform you're listening on. Please
just fill in the stars or share the show with
a friend so more people find out the podcast exists.
(19:26):
You can always follow me over on Instagram. My handle
is at Peter Hook spelt p e t a h ok.
Or you can send me an email I Can't stand
podcast at gmail dot com. Thank you so much for listening,
and thank you Michael for your time. Until next week,
(19:48):
have a good one, guys. Bye. I would like to
respectfully acknowledge that Will Wondery and Bunner wrong people of
the call a nation of which I record the podcast
to day, and I pay my respects to both elders
past and present, along with and especially to those in
(20:13):
the First Nation's communities who are disabled themselves
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