July 31, 2020 • 46 mins
Building an ICONIC Brand Reputation is Everything
Episode #5
Brand reputation is everything. It's an expectation of behavior derived from personal experiences and/or experiences from others. Great reputations are built through consistently meeting or exceeding customer expectations. When you invest in proactively cultivating your brand reputation, you'll experience increases in revenue, brand equity and customer loyalty, plus you'll have the ability to hire and retain top talent.
In this episode, Calvin and John share 4 ICONIC strategies for building an ICONIC brand reputation and touch on a few signals that indicate when your brand reputation could be in jeopardy.
- 0:01:25 - Intro: Managing brand reputation
- 0:6:34 - ICONIC Strategy #1: Delivering a consistent, frictionless memorable customer experience
- 0:14:06 - ICONIC Strategy #2: Focus on nurturing brand promoters and avoiding detractors
- 0:28:17 - ICONIC Strategy #3: Invest in creating a positive employee experience
- 0:33:50 - ICONIC Strategy #4: Don't ignore the power of your customers online voice
- 0:43:30 - ICONIC Points
To learn more about John Avola and Calvin Stovall, visit iconicpresentations.net. All The ICONIC Mindset episodes can be downloaded at theiconicmindset.com. If you enjoyed listening to this episode, please subscribe to our show. Remember to select a star rating and/or write a review for The ICONIC Mindset podcast.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Introduction (00:07):
Welcome to the iconic mindset podcast with John
Avola and Calvin Stovall.
This is the only place thatuncovers the multiple levels of
iconic businesses and brands.
Every episode reveals thesecrets behind what it takes to
make your business, idea, ormovement iconic.
(00:27):
Now, here are John and Calvin.
John Avola (00:35):
Hey, Calvin! How are you?
Calvin Stovall (00:35):
Hey John, how you doing?
John Avola (00:36):
I'm doing great.
How are you, man?
Calvin Stovall (00:40):
Fantastic.
Couldn't be better.
I'm feeling iconic today.
John Avola (00:43):
How's the family?
Calvin Stovall (00:44):
Everybody's doing wonderful.
Can't complain.
How about you?
John Avola (00:48):
All well over here.
We took a little time, and spenta couple of weeks in
Philadelphia.
So coming back refreshed.
It makes a big difference toswitch out the four walls for a
few weeks.
Calvin Stovall (01:00):
I bet that was a nice break.
My oldest son had a 13thbirthday last week.
John Avola (01:05):
Oh, get out.
You got a teenager.
Calvin Stovall (01:08):
I know.
Right?
He thinks he's already 25.
John Avola (01:14):
Oh man, a teenage boy.
I'm sure we'll be hearing moreabout him in upcoming podcasts.
Calvin Stovall (01:18):
You got that right.
But yeah, we celebrated.
John Avola (01:20):
Happy birthday to Kayden.
That's pretty cool.
So this episode, we're going tojump in here and we're going to
share some iconic strategiesaround managing brand
reputation.
The title of our podcast isBrand Reputation is Everything.
And we're going to go throughfour iconic strategies for
maintaining that positivereputation.
(01:42):
We're also going to touch on afew signals that can indicate
your brand reputation could befailing or falling.
Calvin Stovall (01:48):
Turning this to the four P's, it's really about
your purpose and defining whatthat is.
I do believe in Simon Sinek whenhe says people don't buy what
you do, they buy why you do it.
And your reputation and whatyour colleagues, friends, and
relatives say about your brandis really important.
(02:09):
When you think about purpose,what is really the story or the
narrative you want people toamplify about your brand or your
company?
What do you want people to say?
One of my favorite quotes is byJeff Bezos, Amazon CEO, he says
"your brand is what other peoplesay about you when you're not in
the room." That is the wholepremise around reputation.
John Avola (02:28):
I agree with you.
I think reputation can also bedefined as that expectation of
behavior comprised of pastexperiences.
It's defined as either yourpersonal experience or
experiences from others.
It could be good.
It could be bad.
Calvin Stovall (02:43):
Another guy, Scott Cook, one of the
cofounders of Intuit, his quoteis,"a brand is no longer what we
tell the customer.
It is what customers tell eachother it is." So, we can say
what we are.
We can tell the world what weare, but if a customer doesn't
believe it, it really doesn'tmatter.
(03:04):
I think you said when we weretalking about this podcast, you
said customer's perception isreality.
John Avola (03:09):
So true.
But I also believe thatreputation is the reality as
well.
You've got a good reputation ora poor reputation.
That's also going to transferinto how things are perceived by
others.
You can create that positiveperception with a strong PR
campaign to position your brandas a thought leader or expert,
(03:30):
you can have the best lookingwebsite that makes you look
attractive.
You could even have a strongsocial media presence where
you're constantly managingconversations or maybe even some
good SEO to get you on the topof Google, but a brand has
control over those tactics.
However, your reputation isdirectly tied to the customer
experience.
It's your customers thatdetermine your reputation based
(03:52):
on how well you meet or exceedtheir expectations.
It's defined by brandinteractions.
Calvin Stovall (03:57):
Absolutely.
You know, some brands, I mean,we already know some brands out
there that do a great job andhave a good reputation.
I think sometimes brands gothrough transitions, but some of
the brands are prettyconsistent.
We know they have a prettypositive reputation, like
Starbucks, Ritz Carlton, Disney,Southwest Airlines, Chick-fil-A,
(04:19):
Z appos, which you mentioned,Apple, Amazon, of course, and
even Nordstrom's departmentstores.
Some of these brands have beenable to consistently maintain a
positive reputation.
Even though things happen fromtime to time, they're still able
to maintain a positive image.
All of those things you'vementioned, the website, the
(04:42):
search, and all those things,the brand can control it.
Once you have that reputation,it's important to maintain it.
Walt Bettinger, the President ofCharles Schwab, says the best
advice I've ever received camein a simple reminder from my
late father.
(05:02):
Most things in the world can bebought or sold, but not
reputation.
John Avola (05:08):
You can't buy reputation.
But we also know that if you'reproactively cultivating your
reputation, you'll experienceincreases in revenue, lower
operating costs, lower marketingspend, and you've got the
ability to hire and retain toptalent.
However, on the flip side, ifyou're not taking the time to
manage your brand reputation,you will experience loss of
(05:31):
revenue.
And we've got some examplesthere today, being stagnant on
innovation, low employeeengagement, decreased
shareholder value, high employeeturnover, costly crisis
communications, and much more.
So there's a lot more riskinvolved in letting your brand
reputation slide than there isto keep and maintain a positive
(05:53):
reputation.
Calvin Stovall (05:54):
A happy customer tells a friend.
An unhappy customer tells theworld.
A great name can't fix a badexperience, but a bad experience
can kill a great name and badexperiences are what drive
customers away.
And ultimately it can hurt yourbrand reputation.
Research shows one in threecustomers say they will walk
away from a brand they loveafter just one brand experience.
John Avola (06:18):
To add to that, one in three will walk away, but
I've also read that 90% abandonthe company after a second bad
experience.
You f eeling ready to jump in?
Calvin Stovall (06:31):
I'm ready to share.
Let's start with the first one.
This is the first of fourstrategies to build and maintain
an iconic brand or companyreputation.
Delivering a consistent,frictionless, memorable customer
experience is the best way tobuild and maintain an iconic
brand reputation, delivering onyour brand promises on a
(06:54):
consistent basis.
And the key word here isconsistent.
Consistency is going to be thekey ingredient here.
That's one of the biggeststrategies that you can focus on
to keep your reputation intact.
I have some research here.
71% of recommendations come froma good customer experience.
If your customer receives a goodexperience with your company,
(07:19):
most likely they're going to buymore from you.
They're going to recommend youto friends, colleagues, and
coworkers and so forth.
So that is your best strategy tobuild your iconic brand
reputation.
And on top of that, you want tomake sure that you focus on
trying to find the right balancebetween digital and the human
experience.
John Avola (07:37):
Or better yet, connect them, right.
Connecting the digital and humantouch, which is really cool.
When you have a brand that youfeel as though that brand knows
you, it's almost, they'repredicting that next best
action.
They've connected a digital andhuman touch to where you may be
on the phone with a salespersonand now you're receiving an
email that coincides with theconversation you just had.
(08:01):
A lot of opportunities therearound the personalization and
the human digital touch.
But also, Calvin, wanted tobring up a company that I think
we all know real well.
And that's LL Bean.
LL Bean just celebrated, Ithink, 108 years in business.
They were founded back in around1910, 1912, somewhere in that
(08:24):
area.
And they are still a familyowned business.
They were family founded backwhen they were created and the
company has transcended over theyears from a brand to a
community dedicated to outsiders.
I thought that was kind of neat,where they're now a community
where those that are defined assomeone who enjoys a great
(08:47):
adventure or is eager to makefriends along the way, the
company is dedicated toinspiring and uniting its
customers through theirmanifesto, which is"wherever you
are, join us, because on theinside, we're all outsiders.
And if it's outside, we're allin." That was kind of a neat way
to position your company, as acommunity versus the brand
(09:09):
itself.
They're passionate aboutcustomer satisfaction and they
know satisfied customers willreturn.
Here's a quote that I've thoughtwas real relevant from one of
the LL Bean executives thatstates"at LL Bean a customer is
not a transaction, but arelationship with someone who
shares our values of qualityproducts and love of the
(09:32):
outdoors.
That's the strength of our brandand why our trusted reputation
is so enduring.
No one wants to do business witha company that treats you
poorly."
Calvin Stovall (09:42):
Exactly.
I love that quote.
I think that's a wonderful oneand it really supports what
we're talking about here today.
I want to go back to theconsistency and repetition.
We talk a lot aboutpersonalization a nd I know we
have to have that in ourcustomer experiences as well,
but some of the things that youneed to do on a consistent basis
(10:05):
and do repeatedly are whatbuilds a positive reputation.
People know what to expect fromyou.
Love or hate McDonald's, I thinkthey're the kings of this.
They are the kings ofconsistency and repetition.
Consistency and repetition iswhat wins and b uild an iconic
brand reputation.
(10:28):
I believe t hat experiences donot form customer loyalty, but
memories of experiences do.
So when I talk to my clients andwhen I do keynotes, I a sk them,
what can you do?
I always turn it into some kindof musical thing, but what can
you do to get your brand companystuck in the minds of your
consumers?
Or how can you keep your brandsong looping in their heads?
(10:48):
So they keep buying from youagain and again?
And one of the things I'll talkabout is this guy, the author
named Derek Thompson.
He has a book called Hitmakersand he says,"repetition is the
God particle of music." And Ilove it.
And he says,"repetition isnearly as integral to music as
the notes themselves." Andrepetition, I believe, is also
(11:10):
important to building an iconicbrand reputation.
So I love the music tied t o it.
I want to try something with youthat I usually do w ith my
keynotes.
And it says something about howimportant repetition can be.
Some of today's marketingcampaigns, they try hard, they
try to be t rendy and clever,but sometimes the call to
(11:32):
action, sometimes even theproduct, can get lost in the
message and the clutter.
For example, if I challenged youto name three ads from this past
year's Superbowl.
I know it was a while back.
I know you miss football.
(11:53):
Would you be able to do it?
Can you tell me or recall thecommercial o n the product
itself?
John Avola (11:59):
Without throwing out brand names that are there every
year, I don't think I can,
Calvin Stovall (12:06):
But I bet you one thing though, regardless of
how old you are, and I kind ofknow where you fall, but you
could probably name three discotunes from the 1970s.
And let me tell you why, becauseyou would most likely get those
much quicker again, like I said,regardless of your age, but when
you think about music in theseventies, those disco tunes,
(12:27):
they're always little ads withcalls to action right there in
the title, Get Up and Boogie,Shake Your Groove Thing, Get on
the Good Foot, Turn the BeatAround.
And now you can help me withthis.
Do a little dance, make a littlelove....
John Avola (12:42):
Get down tonight!
Calvin Stovall (12:44):
See, you know that.
And let me tell you why you knowthat, because repetition was
common in disco music just to besure you got the message.
And this system, it works thesame in customer experiences.
As quirky as that was, it'sreally the same thing.
Simply put, consistency andrepetition, it's the holy grail
when it comes to building areputation and brands that
(13:08):
customers love.
The better you're able to dothat on a consistent basis,
people begin to expect whatyou're going to deliver.
You deliver on those brandpromises on a consistent basis.
I truly believe you will build areputation, a positive one for
your brand.
John Avola (13:23):
Absolutely Calvin.
Elizabeth Arden, she's thefounder of Elizabeth Arden, Inc,
which is a cosmetic and skincareline and now owned by Revlon.
Just to kind of summarizeeverything you just said.
And this is her quote,"repetition makes reputation and
reputation makes customers."
Calvin Stovall (13:43):
That just supported the whole disco thing.
I think we've covered that firstone pretty well, which is to
make sure you're delivering aconsistent, positive customer
experience.
(14:04):
All right.
Next one.
Focus on nurturing brandpromoters and avoiding brand
detractors.
I'm going to talk a little bitabout those and I'm hoping for
those of you listening to us,you might be familiar with the
net promoter score.
That's where these two termscome from, promoters and
(14:24):
detractors.
And I'm going to go through thedefinition.
There's three categories to getto this score.
John Avola (14:30):
Just quickly touch on the net promoter score.
Just to simplify it for theaudience.
It's nothing more than acustomer engagement score.
That's all it is.
It's a score.
It's a zero to 10.
How likely are you to recommendthis particular company?
And based on that Likert scaleresult, Calvin take it away.
There are three outcomes.
Calvin Stovall (14:50):
Thank you.
So here we go.
A promoter is what you wouldcall a loyal or raving fan.
This would be an advocate.
John Avola (15:02):
That's your six and above.
It would be a score of one to10.
Calvin Stovall (15:06):
Yes.
These are what you would callyour reputation builders.
Let's call these peoplereputation builders.
So these are the people that aregoing to go out and they're
going to have a great experiencewith your brand.
They're going to go out and telleverybody, hey, make sure you go
try this product or service.
It was fantastic.
They're the ones who are goingto give you the reviews on Yelp.
(15:26):
They're going to be yourreputation builders.
John Avola (15:29):
Real quick Calvin.
These guys are, just to be sure,your advocates, your promoters.
They're not influencers.
I think that's a good key tomake.
It's not someone who's beingpaid to represent your company.
Someone going out, as Calvinsaid, on their own, and they're
saying, I love this brand.
And here's why, and you shouldtoo.
Calvin Stovall (15:49):
Absolutely.
This is free advertising foryou.
It doesn't cost you a dime.
And then the next group arecalled passives.
These are people that are on thefence.
They really don't have anyloyalty to you or anybody else.
They might like your brand, butif something else better comes
along, they're gone.
They really don't have anyimpact on your brand reputation.
(16:13):
It's unlikely that they're goingto go out and say anything.
They're going to be like, okay,it was cool.
And then move on.
They're in the middle of thescore.
I believe it's five to eight orsomething like that.
And then you have thedetractors.
These are what you call yourbrand assassins or what I'm
going to call reputationkillers.
These are the people you willreally want to avoid.
And I believe these are thepeople that give you a score
(16:35):
from one to four.
So basically how you end up withthe net promoter score.
They take your promoters andminus out your detractors and
whatever percentage is left,that's the score that you have.
And if you want to learn moreabout it, just look up net
promoter score, and you can kindof see where some brands fall.
They do an annual study all thetime and you can learn more
about it, but we are using ithere to really get you to focus
(16:58):
on the fact that you want asmany promoters or brand
reputation builders as possiblefor your brand.
Recall the last podcast we didwhere I talked about retention
is the new acquisition.
These are the people you want toretain.
You want to retain thosepromoters and have them keep
having positive experiences andgoing out, talking about your
(17:20):
brand.
John Avola (17:21):
Like you said, Calvin, your brand promoters are
extremely valuable, for yourreputation management.
They can elevate your reputationfrom average to iconic.
Calvin Stovall (17:32):
Yes, absolutely.
I love it.
Yes they can.
Yes they can.
John Avola (17:36):
But I did want to touch on the detractors as well.
I think it's important that wedon't ignore the detractors.
It's an opportunity to actquickly.
There is opportunity for yourdetractors to even help your
brand.
They may have some interestingfeedback or something that you
may, as a brand, not evenrealize to where you can make
(17:57):
changes based on some of thefeedback from a detractor.
You can encourage theirfeedback, make sure it's simple
for the customer to get in touchwith you.
And if you have a connection, ifyou have those connection points
established, make sure yourresponse time is attentive,
which I think we'll talk to herein a moment, as far as
opportunities there to improveyour reputation or being
(18:20):
attentive to your customer.
Not making them wait on hold,for example.
Taking the time to listen tothose detractors, show your
empathy and make sure they feelas though you're on their side.
And most importantly, be honest,especially when trying to help
detractors get more familiarwith your brand.
Calvin Stovall (18:40):
You don't want to shoot yourself in the foot
either.
You don't want to createdetractors.
I want to list a few things herethat would be a reputation
killer.
These are the things that youcould do.
If you want more detractors, ifyou want to track this, these
are the things you can do.
John Avola (18:56):
So what he's saying is avoid these by all means.
Calvin Stovall (19:00):
Exactly, by all means.
Do not have your customerscontact your company multiple
times for the exact same reason.
That is the most frustratingthing.
If they have to keep callingback, they're going to give up
and they're going to be donebeing put on hold for a long
time.
Just like you talked about John.
I'll give you an example.
(19:22):
I'm going to throw them outthere because I hope they fix
this situation.
I've had to call Verizon.
I bought an iPhone.
I had to call Verizon to checkabout my phone insurance, in
case I crack it or it gets lost.
I was on hold for 48 minutes and12 seconds.
(19:47):
48 minutes.
John Avola (19:51):
You probably forgot you were on hold!
Calvin Stovall (19:52):
I did.
I put the phone down and I hadit on the cabinet and then
later, I was walking arounddoing stuff and then all of a
sudden I heard somebody say hi.
The guy I did get was very, verykind, very nice, and very, very
(20:14):
helpful.
But think about it, you'rewaiting almost an hour to talk
to somebody and by the time youget them, you're pretty
frustrated.
So don't do that to yourcustomers.
Number three, having a customerrepeat their same issue to
several company reps over andover and over again.
Very frustrating.
John Avola (20:33):
And your story gets shorter, doesn't it?
Your first answer is you're justtelling them everything that's
going on.
The second guy, you're like, allright, I'm going to summarize
it.
By the third guy, you're like,all right, here's the problem.
Calvin Stovall (20:45):
Just that one sentence.
John Avola (20:47):
And you almost kind of feel bad for guy number three
or four.
You started off so nice and nowthat you repeated yourself ten
times, you're like, alright,dude, I know it's not your fault
but I've already told this storyten times.
So here it is.
Calvin Stovall (20:59):
So frustrating And just basically not being
easy to do business with and notdelivering on your promises.
Those are biggies.
And I think John, you hadmentioned one more.
John Avola (21:14):
I want to touch on the failure to innovate and meet
customer needs.
But also, before I jump intothat, back on not delivering the
promises, it's better to admityour limitations than to over
promise and under deliver.
And I just wanted to make thatpoint clear.
Over promising and/or promisingthings that you are unable to
(21:37):
complete is more detrimentalthan just being straight up and
saying, honestly, here's what wecan do.
Here's our solution.
And even taking the time tofollow up with someone after
that solution has beencompleted, to ensure
satisfaction, is a much waybetter way to approach it than
trying to over promise and thenunfortunately under deliver.
(22:00):
So I'm just wanting to call thatout there on not delivering
promises, because you don't wantto be a brand that continues to
put out things thatunfortunately they can't make
happen.
Calvin Stovall (22:11):
Absolutely.
Sometimes salespeople will makepromises that really can't be
delivered.
John Avola (22:19):
We've all experienced that.
Yes.
Hey, the sales guy told me.
Calvin Stovall (22:26):
Well, guess what, he was wrong!
John Avola (22:28):
Well, he's a sales guy and I'm the guy installing
it.
So here's how it's going to be.
Calvin Stovall (22:34):
That's a brand reputation killer.
John Avola (22:37):
And just to follow up on that last point there, the
failure to meet customer needs,the failure to innovate.
It's so important to stayinnovative and remain diverse
and not get disrupted by change,especially in the environment
we're all living in today.
Change is constant, nothing newthere, but now we've added an
additional fact with, of course,COVID and the pandemic that's
(23:00):
sweeping the world.
Regardless of the situation,staying ahead of the curve and
maintaining and keeping apositive reputation by adapting
to the customer needs andmonitoring those trends so
closely, Here's a company, Ithink it's on our mind, Calvin,
and that is Columbia House.
An example of not monitoringtrends closely.
(23:25):
You can buy 10 CDs for a penny.
but while they're sending outtheir brochures in the mail,
you've got Netflix that saw anew opportunity for streaming
media and they quickly pivotedto the streaming revolution.
(23:46):
And now you look at ColumbiaHouse.
It's unfortunate when anycompany declares bankruptcy, but
they are completely wiped out atthis point.
And you have someone likeNetflix that is completely gone
to where it is today.
And what's interesting aboutthat story, as I was just doing
a little research before ourpodcast today, Netflix started
(24:09):
after Columbia house and Netflixwent to Columbia house and said,
hey, can we work together?
I'll put advertising online foryour product If you put
advertising for our product inyour mailer brochures.
You know what they said?
No.
Netflix potentially could havesaved Columbia House with a
(24:32):
cross promotion.
They said no.
So anyway, I just thought thatwas interesting.
Calvin Stovall (24:36):
Didn't something similar happen to Blockbuster?
John Avola (24:40):
As a brick and mortar rental store, they
completely ignored the streamingrevolution.
Blockbuster, the same way.
They made that transition fromVHS to DVD and thought they were
golden.
Calvin Stovall (24:51):
Exactly, exactly.
John Avola (24:53):
The point is don't let your product define your
brand.
If you've defined yourself as aseller of analog film, you'll
ignore the digital revolution.
Kodak, for example, they wereactually the first company that
invented the digital camera in1975.
But leaders actually asked theinventor, it looks great, but
(25:13):
please let's keep this underwraps because they were afraid
to see what would happen to thefilm market, if a digital or
filmless photography was enteredinto the marketplace.
Another one, which I justthought was real interesting,
(25:35):
was if you've defined yourselfas an online advertising giant,
you'll ignore the importance ofonline search.
You look at Yahoo who actuallyhad the opportunity to buy two
big companies that were justgetting started.
Google back in 2002, justkicking off, Yahoo, had the
opportunity to buy them.
(25:56):
They turned it down.
Then a social networkingcompany.
You may know Facebook, 2006,still only opened to college
students, started negotiationswith Yahoo.
They fell through mostly becausethe decision on both accounts
was made to focus on media andin turn they neglected customer
(26:18):
trends and the need to improvethe user experience.
So I just thought those exampleswere real relevant today, and
that if your product is definingyour brand and you're not
diversifying yourself, there's aclear indication that your
reputation and not only yourreputation, but your company as
(26:38):
a whole could be falling.
Calvin Stovall (26:38):
John, I hear it.
Do I hear a P?
John Avola (26:48):
I do hear a P.
Perseverance.
Calvin Stovall (26:52):
That's right.
It's perseverance.
That's wonderful.
But again, we talk about thosefour Ps and perseverance always
ends up coming up.
In this environment, you've gotto pull that lever even more
than ever before.
I do want to cover one morething, John, around reputation.
I just want to throw out somestats because your reputation
matters.
(27:12):
It's everything.
Because you remember, you wantpeople to talk about you.
83% of customers say that a wordof mouth recommendation from a
friend or a family member makesthem more likely to purchase a
product or service.
So that's 8 out of 10.
You want to make sure.
And another thing that waswonderful is that millennials
actually are the biggest brandevangelists with 77% of them
(27:37):
making at least onerecommendation a month.
And 71%, as I mentioned before,of recommendations come from a
good customer experience.
So again, customer experience isthe key and delivering that on a
consistent basis as we talkedabout before, all of that
(27:58):
matters.
John Avola (28:00):
And those millennials, those millennials.
I may be one, but anyway,they're the largest consumer
group now as well.
Calvin Stovall (28:12):
Yes.
And you want as many millennialpromoters as you can possibly
get.
Let's move on to number three,which I think is also important.
Number three, are you ready?
Invest in creating a positiveemployee experience.
Now, you know me, John, I am....
John Avola (28:30):
Here we go.
Here we go.
He's standing up folks.
Calvin Stovall (28:35):
There is no- NO- customer experience without a
positive employee experience.
And 70% of a brand's reputationis driven by its employees.
So your reputation, if you'renot doing it right on the
inside, you're definitely notgoing to get it right on the
outside.
JW Marriott said,"take care ofyour associates and they will
(28:55):
take care of your customers."Companies that lead in customer
experience have 60% more engagedemployees.
And I think we've seen so manystudies that have shown
investing in employee experienceimpacts the customer experience
and can generate a high ROI foryour company.
What I want to really highlighthere is, John, you've got to
have the right leadership inplace.
John Avola (29:16):
You have to.
What is the old saying?
Happy employees equal evenhappier customers?
Calvin Stovall (29:21):
I love it.
Yes it does.
And really it's going to bevirtually impossible for you to
build an iconic brand reputationwithout having a proper
leadership in place.
It's not going to happen becauseI believe employees mirror and
they emulate what they see.
Your leaders have to walk thetalk.
They have to be able to transferyour brand's vision on a
(29:42):
consistent basis.
And remember your brand'sreputation is really just an
outward expression of theexperience your employees have
on the inside of yourorganization.
John Avola (29:52):
Absolutely.
How they think and feel is adirect reflection of the
company.
Calvin Stovall (29:58):
Yes.
When we talk about employees andtheir impact on creating the
magic in front of the customer,it is one of the most passionate
things I like to talk about,John, because people think
having the glitzy product andall of that stuff, yes, that's
important.
But if the customer isn't reallyconnected to your brand and
(30:21):
feeling like they're cared forthrough the employees that
deliver that service on a day today basis, it's all going to be
for nothing.
John Avola (30:27):
You mentioned a couple stats as well, and more
proof...
Gallup does an annual study,State of the American Workplace.
They recently reported thatemployees who are engaged are
more likely to improve customerservice that can result in 20%
increases in sales.
(30:48):
You're looking for low hangingfruit.
Calvin Stovall (30:53):
And when people hear, make your employees happy,
I think some people interpretthat as give them everything
they want.
That is not what we're saying.
What we're talking about ismaking sure they have the tools
and resources that they need todo their jobs with excellence.
We're talking about making surethey have learning and
development opportunities tocontinue to grow.
(31:13):
We're talking about you as aleader, having empathy,
demonstrating active listeningskills and making sure you're
responding to their needs.
That's what we're talking about.
John Avola (31:23):
Going to put in your 40 hours.
But it's the experience of those40 hours that these employees
take on that is a directreflection of your work.
Calvin Stovall (31:32):
Absolutely.
And that builds your reputation.
And in other words, everybody,regardless of your position in
the organization, has to takeownership of the customer
experience.
Everyone has to be reading anddelivering from the same sheet
of music.
Everybody, everybody.
John Avola (31:49):
Absolutely.
And you put those together,you've got your satisfied,
engaged employees.
They work harder, they havehigher morale.
They care more about the successof your company.
And they're going to go out oftheir way to satisfy the
customer needs.
Calvin Stovall (32:02):
Absolutely.
Because really if just oneperson within your organization
doesn't understand how importanttheir role is to the customer
experience, it's going to have anegative impact on your entire
company's reputation becauseyour customers don't see a
specific department.
They don't see one employee.
(32:22):
All they're going to see is onecompany, one entity, one brand.
Just remember you're all in thisthing together.
John Avola (32:30):
And to that point, the employees who deliver that
superior customer experiencedirectly link to, as you just
said, a positive brandreputation.
It's a direct link betweencustomers, employee
satisfaction, and customers.
Calvin Stovall (32:49):
And as I said before, I think when we were
talking about salespeople versusthe installers and so forth that
you want to make sure thatpeople are talking to one
another.
I talk about silos.
Silos are for farmers.
They're not for organizations.
So, you want to make sure thatpeople are talking to one
(33:09):
another, everybody understandstheir role in the customer
journey, and things of thatnature.
One of the quotes that I love issilos build the wall in people's
minds and create the barrier inorganizations' hearts.
I believe that.
John Avola (33:23):
We talked about Zappos earlier in our podcast.
They're dedicated to their ownemployees.
Listen to this though.
The company believes thatorganizational silos can
counteract a customer centricmindset.
And so it was all employees, aflexible structure, no formal
titles, and everyone workswithin a team that they're
(33:46):
passionate about.
Calvin Stovall (33:48):
There you go.
Okay.
Number four, are you ready?
Don't ignore the power of yourcustomers' online voice and how
much it can impact your brand'sreputation in this always on,
hyper-connected mobile world.
John Avola (34:07):
You must be talking about that megaphone, that
social media megaphone.
Calvin Stovall (34:12):
Customers are sharing their experiences
online, everywhere, and they caneasily share a bad experience
online with a few taps of thekeyboard.
This is why customer experiencehas never been more important
than ever before and why itneeds to be the soul of
everything that you do withinyour organization, every touch
point or what I like to callmoment of impact.
It must be more than functionaland transactional.
(34:32):
It's got to be real.
It's got to be authentic.
It has to be memorable.
And it has to bring your brandexperience to life.
You want your customers to talkand talk about you, remember
their interaction with you, andthen influence others to do
business with you.
That's really the trigger.
Good customer experience meanspositive word of mouth.
(34:54):
That's what we've been talkingabout.
That free advertising, thosepromoters again, when customers
have a good customer experiencethat are five times more likely
to recommend you to other peopleand they have the megaphone!
John Avola (35:09):
They have the megaphone and they're not afraid
to use it.
Calvin Stovall (35:14):
They share their sentiments with the world, like
I said, on the keyboard abouthow you either improved or
ruined their lives.
That easy.
Do not ignore the online voice.
John Avola (35:26):
No, no.
When I was just starting out andgetting some clients under Wild
Seed Marketing, when we werejust beginning years ago, it
took some selling.
The question was always, well,why do I need to be on social
media?
And my response was, yourcustomers are talking about you,
(35:47):
whether you like it or not.
They're talking about youbecause they have the avenue to
do so, anyone or everyonethey're already talking.
So you can either join theconversation or watch it happen.
But if you join theconversation, at least you've
got a seat at the table.
They're tweeting about yourlatest product or leaving
comments on your blog.
They're posting updates onFacebook and it's your job to
(36:11):
help manage that expectation.
Looking at the company sentimentand going back to the net
promoter scores and thepromoters and the detractors and
getting an opportunity to bepart of that conversation.
Calvin Stovall (36:25):
The scary thing about it all is you never know
who you're dealing with.
Do you remember that guy, DaveCarroll?
United Airlines?
Remember they broke his guitarand he was not happy.
He only wanted$1,200 in repairs,John.
(36:46):
And they just bounced him fromagent to agent.
And finally just said, nope,we're not going to do it.
We're not giving you anything.
This guy, he promised them thathe was going to write three
songs about the matter.
And he came up with this songcalled United Breaks Guitars and
(37:08):
it went viral on YouTube.
And then of course, by thattime, United changed their
course.
They wanted to offer him money.
He said, I don't even want it,donate it to somebody.
Check this out.
The YouTube video was posted onJuly 6th, 2009.
It amassed 150,000 views withinone day.
(37:32):
After that United contactedCarroll again, saying, please
let us fix it.
He said no.
The video had over half amillion views by July 9th, 5
million by mid August 2009, 10million by February 2011, 15
(37:52):
million by August 2015.
It hit 20 million views, 185,000likes, as of May 2020.
That's crazy, man.
John Avola (38:06):
I bet they wish they paid that$1500 bucks.
Calvin Stovall (38:11):
United's managing director of customer
relations, he telephoned Carrolla lot of times but Carroll
wasn't trying to hear it, buthere's the stat.
When we talk about brandreputation, it was widely
reported that within four weeksof the video being posted
online, United Airlines' stockprice fell 10%, about$180
(38:34):
million in value.
John Avola (38:36):
I didn't know that.
Calvin Stovall (38:37):
Now that's an extreme case.
John Avola (38:41):
But it shows the power.
Calvin Stovall (38:43):
It shows the power of online voice.
And again, you never know, theyhad no idea that this guy was a
musician They didn't know whothey were dealing with.
Now, no customer should betreated that way, but you just
never know.
John Avola (38:55):
And, Calvin on the flip side, McDonald's right, I'm
loving it.
And we talked about McDonald'sbecause they took to social
media in a little different way,where they are actively
listening and acting uponcustomer feedback.
A few things that you may noteven realize came out of
(39:17):
customer ideas through socialmedia.
Healthier menu options, that wasa direct request from social
media fans and followers.
Staying open longer or openingearlier, so adjusting their
store hours.
And, what we all love, all daybreakfast, right?
The all day breakfast came fromsocial media comments and
(39:42):
suggestions.
Calvin Stovall (39:43):
That's awesome.
Can you say, I'm loving it!
John Avola (39:46):
I'm loving it!
Calvin Stovall (39:49):
That's great.
I just want to share some statson the power of online reviews
because now we're all lookingonline.
John Avola (39:55):
How many times are you looking at a restaurant,
right?
You're going to look at thereviews or you're going to call
house repair or something.
You're going to look at thereviews.
You going to see a five starfrom one person or four stars
from 50 people, you're probablygoing to lean toward that four
stars.
(40:15):
Right.
It's a very interesting dynamic,but anyway, continue.
Calvin Stovall (40:20):
90% of consumers read online reviews before
visiting them.
John Avola (40:25):
We're there.
You and I are part of that 90%.
Calvin Stovall (40:28):
That's right.
82% of Yelp users say theytypically visit Yelp because
they intend to buy a product orservice.
Your reputation online is key.
John Avola (40:38):
They're trusting people they don't know.
Think about it.
Calvin Stovall (40:44):
I guess they figured you have to have had a
really great experience for youto be emotionally engaged enough
to go online and writesomething.
John Avola (40:55):
Positive or negative.
Calvin Stovall (40:56):
Positive or negative.
Absolutely.
John Avola (40:59):
Going back to Amazon, you check out those
products on Amazon.
You look at the reviews and thecounts.
I can't think of a product whereyou can't actually not see the
stars.
I think it's impossible becauseit's right under the product.
But how many times have youlooked at a product and you're
(41:20):
like, ooh, one, two stars, and8,000 reviews.
It makes you think twice.
Calvin Stovall (41:27):
I do it on everything, John, even movies on
Netflix.
They have a gazillion movies onNetflix, a zillion movies on
Amazon Prime.
I'm not going to watch all thosemovies.
They'll put a lot ofrecommendations.
You know what I do?
I go right on Rotten Tomatoesand put the movie in and it's
30% and I'm not doing it.
John Avola (41:49):
You're absolutely right.
Netflix tells you like 98%match.
You're going to love this.
You know what?
I'm going to look this up on areview first.
Netflix might know me, but thereviews are going to tell me
what's going on.
Calvin Stovall (42:03):
So make sure you're monitoring your company's
customer comments, thecomplaints and requests.
Respond in a timely manner.
Some of the things you justtalked about before, be
authentic and transparent inyour responses.
Nobody likes brand speak.
Just keep it real.
And as you mentioned earlier,collect feedback to make
improvements.
And yes, you're going to getsome bad complaints sometimes,
(42:25):
but if those are done properly,it's an opportunity to be
unforgettable.
You can create a positiveexperience from something that's
quite negative, but there's somestaggering stats.
These are again, how you cancreate a detractor, which is
what you don't want to do.
92% of companies do not followup with customers to see if they
(42:47):
are satisfied with the response.
So if something happens andgives a response, yes, good.
You went halfway there, which isgood.
You have to make sure they werehappy with what you responded,
but here's even worse.
32% of companies don't evenrespond to customer service
emails.
John Avola (43:08):
No response?
Calvin Stovall (43:11):
No response.
It's true.
I've sent out issues I may havehad.
Sometimes I get a response.
Sometimes I don't.
And it is probably about a thirdof the time I get nothing.
John Avola (43:24):
What a podcast!
Calvin Stovall (43:30):
So those are the four.
Quick review.
Deliver a consistent,frictionless, memorable customer
experience.
It is the best way to build andmaintain your kind of grand
reputation.
Have to do that.
Number one.
Number two, focus on nurturingbrand promoters and avoiding
brand detractors.
Push promoters up.
Get as many as you can.
Possibly avoid people talkingbad about you.
Number three, invest in creatinga positive employee experience.
(43:54):
Remember 70% of your brand'sperception,"reputation," is
driven by your team.
Positive employee experiencewill equal a positive customer
experience will equal positivereputation.
Number four, do not ignore thepower of your customer's online
voice.
You don't want to run into aDave Carroll.
(44:20):
Those are the four.
I think those are solid.
And again, like we always say,John, we talk about iconic
brands all the time.
When we talk about iconic, itdoesn't mean you have to be a
Fortune 500 company.
You don't have to be a Bank ofAmerica or any large
organizations that are outthere.
You could be the small pancakehouse on the corner.
John Avola (44:40):
Or the dumpling company! Five episodes in a row!
Calvin Stovall (44:51):
Figured the dumpling company was going to
find its way in and you neverlet me down.
So, John, I hope people gotsomething out of it.
John Avola (45:03):
I really enjoyed today's episode.
I think it was just so relevantin today's world.
And it's always good, Calvin, totalk with you and to share these
opportunities, these strategiesto become an iconic brand.
Like you said, no matter yourproduct, your service, how big
or small your organization maybe, you can still be iconic.
(45:25):
And that's why we're here.
Well, Calvin as always, thankyou so much for your time today.
Enjoyed it as always.
And for our listeners, if youwant to find out more, learn
more about some of the economyframework we've discussed, like
the four Ps, everything'savailable on
iconicpresentations.net.
You can also find our contactinformation there.
(45:46):
And we'd love to hear from you.
We'd love to get your feedback.
And most importantly, we listento you.
Calvin Stovall (45:51):
John, that's a good point.
If any of our listeners have anysuggestions or recommendations
on what you'd like to hear usdelve into, please feel free to
send us an email.
And we would love to do somefollow- up research and cover
that topic for you.
John Avola (46:06):
Absolutely.
We'd love that.
All right, Calvin.
Until next time, don't just be,be iconic.
Welcome to the iconic mindset podcast with John
Avola and Calvin Stovall.
This is the only place thatuncovers the multiple levels of
iconic businesses and brands.
Every episode reveals thesecrets behind what it takes to
make your business, idea, ormovement iconic.
(00:27):
Now, here are John and Calvin.
John Avola (00:35):
Hey, Calvin! How are you?
Calvin Stovall (00:35):
Hey John, how you doing?
John Avola (00:36):
I'm doing great.
How are you, man?
Calvin Stovall (00:40):
Fantastic.
Couldn't be better.
I'm feeling iconic today.
John Avola (00:43):
How's the family?
Calvin Stovall (00:44):
Everybody's doing wonderful.
Can't complain.
How about you?
John Avola (00:48):
All well over here.
We took a little time, and spenta couple of weeks in
Philadelphia.
So coming back refreshed.
It makes a big difference toswitch out the four walls for a
few weeks.
Calvin Stovall (01:00):
I bet that was a nice break.
My oldest son had a 13thbirthday last week.
John Avola (01:05):
Oh, get out.
You got a teenager.
Calvin Stovall (01:08):
I know.
Right?
He thinks he's already 25.
John Avola (01:14):
Oh man, a teenage boy.
I'm sure we'll be hearing moreabout him in upcoming podcasts.
Calvin Stovall (01:18):
You got that right.
But yeah, we celebrated.
John Avola (01:20):
Happy birthday to Kayden.
That's pretty cool.
So this episode, we're going tojump in here and we're going to
share some iconic strategiesaround managing brand
reputation.
The title of our podcast isBrand Reputation is Everything.
And we're going to go throughfour iconic strategies for
maintaining that positivereputation.
(01:42):
We're also going to touch on afew signals that can indicate
your brand reputation could befailing or falling.
Calvin Stovall (01:48):
Turning this to the four P's, it's really about
your purpose and defining whatthat is.
I do believe in Simon Sinek whenhe says people don't buy what
you do, they buy why you do it.
And your reputation and whatyour colleagues, friends, and
relatives say about your brandis really important.
(02:09):
When you think about purpose,what is really the story or the
narrative you want people toamplify about your brand or your
company?
What do you want people to say?
One of my favorite quotes is byJeff Bezos, Amazon CEO, he says
"your brand is what other peoplesay about you when you're not in
the room." That is the wholepremise around reputation.
John Avola (02:28):
I agree with you.
I think reputation can also bedefined as that expectation of
behavior comprised of pastexperiences.
It's defined as either yourpersonal experience or
experiences from others.
It could be good.
It could be bad.
Calvin Stovall (02:43):
Another guy, Scott Cook, one of the
cofounders of Intuit, his quoteis,"a brand is no longer what we
tell the customer.
It is what customers tell eachother it is." So, we can say
what we are.
We can tell the world what weare, but if a customer doesn't
believe it, it really doesn'tmatter.
(03:04):
I think you said when we weretalking about this podcast, you
said customer's perception isreality.
John Avola (03:09):
So true.
But I also believe thatreputation is the reality as
well.
You've got a good reputation ora poor reputation.
That's also going to transferinto how things are perceived by
others.
You can create that positiveperception with a strong PR
campaign to position your brandas a thought leader or expert,
(03:30):
you can have the best lookingwebsite that makes you look
attractive.
You could even have a strongsocial media presence where
you're constantly managingconversations or maybe even some
good SEO to get you on the topof Google, but a brand has
control over those tactics.
However, your reputation isdirectly tied to the customer
experience.
It's your customers thatdetermine your reputation based
(03:52):
on how well you meet or exceedtheir expectations.
It's defined by brandinteractions.
Calvin Stovall (03:57):
Absolutely.
You know, some brands, I mean,we already know some brands out
there that do a great job andhave a good reputation.
I think sometimes brands gothrough transitions, but some of
the brands are prettyconsistent.
We know they have a prettypositive reputation, like
Starbucks, Ritz Carlton, Disney,Southwest Airlines, Chick-fil-A,
(04:19):
Z appos, which you mentioned,Apple, Amazon, of course, and
even Nordstrom's departmentstores.
Some of these brands have beenable to consistently maintain a
positive reputation.
Even though things happen fromtime to time, they're still able
to maintain a positive image.
All of those things you'vementioned, the website, the
(04:42):
search, and all those things,the brand can control it.
Once you have that reputation,it's important to maintain it.
Walt Bettinger, the President ofCharles Schwab, says the best
advice I've ever received camein a simple reminder from my
late father.
(05:02):
Most things in the world can bebought or sold, but not
reputation.
John Avola (05:08):
You can't buy reputation.
But we also know that if you'reproactively cultivating your
reputation, you'll experienceincreases in revenue, lower
operating costs, lower marketingspend, and you've got the
ability to hire and retain toptalent.
However, on the flip side, ifyou're not taking the time to
manage your brand reputation,you will experience loss of
(05:31):
revenue.
And we've got some examplesthere today, being stagnant on
innovation, low employeeengagement, decreased
shareholder value, high employeeturnover, costly crisis
communications, and much more.
So there's a lot more riskinvolved in letting your brand
reputation slide than there isto keep and maintain a positive
(05:53):
reputation.
Calvin Stovall (05:54):
A happy customer tells a friend.
An unhappy customer tells theworld.
A great name can't fix a badexperience, but a bad experience
can kill a great name and badexperiences are what drive
customers away.
And ultimately it can hurt yourbrand reputation.
Research shows one in threecustomers say they will walk
away from a brand they loveafter just one brand experience.
John Avola (06:18):
To add to that, one in three will walk away, but
I've also read that 90% abandonthe company after a second bad
experience.
You f eeling ready to jump in?
Calvin Stovall (06:31):
I'm ready to share.
Let's start with the first one.
This is the first of fourstrategies to build and maintain
an iconic brand or companyreputation.
Delivering a consistent,frictionless, memorable customer
experience is the best way tobuild and maintain an iconic
brand reputation, delivering onyour brand promises on a
(06:54):
consistent basis.
And the key word here isconsistent.
Consistency is going to be thekey ingredient here.
That's one of the biggeststrategies that you can focus on
to keep your reputation intact.
I have some research here.
71% of recommendations come froma good customer experience.
If your customer receives a goodexperience with your company,
(07:19):
most likely they're going to buymore from you.
They're going to recommend youto friends, colleagues, and
coworkers and so forth.
So that is your best strategy tobuild your iconic brand
reputation.
And on top of that, you want tomake sure that you focus on
trying to find the right balancebetween digital and the human
experience.
John Avola (07:37):
Or better yet, connect them, right.
Connecting the digital and humantouch, which is really cool.
When you have a brand that youfeel as though that brand knows
you, it's almost, they'repredicting that next best
action.
They've connected a digital andhuman touch to where you may be
on the phone with a salespersonand now you're receiving an
email that coincides with theconversation you just had.
(08:01):
A lot of opportunities therearound the personalization and
the human digital touch.
But also, Calvin, wanted tobring up a company that I think
we all know real well.
And that's LL Bean.
LL Bean just celebrated, Ithink, 108 years in business.
They were founded back in around1910, 1912, somewhere in that
(08:24):
area.
And they are still a familyowned business.
They were family founded backwhen they were created and the
company has transcended over theyears from a brand to a
community dedicated to outsiders.
I thought that was kind of neat,where they're now a community
where those that are defined assomeone who enjoys a great
(08:47):
adventure or is eager to makefriends along the way, the
company is dedicated toinspiring and uniting its
customers through theirmanifesto, which is"wherever you
are, join us, because on theinside, we're all outsiders.
And if it's outside, we're allin." That was kind of a neat way
to position your company, as acommunity versus the brand
(09:09):
itself.
They're passionate aboutcustomer satisfaction and they
know satisfied customers willreturn.
Here's a quote that I've thoughtwas real relevant from one of
the LL Bean executives thatstates"at LL Bean a customer is
not a transaction, but arelationship with someone who
shares our values of qualityproducts and love of the
(09:32):
outdoors.
That's the strength of our brandand why our trusted reputation
is so enduring.
No one wants to do business witha company that treats you
poorly."
Calvin Stovall (09:42):
Exactly.
I love that quote.
I think that's a wonderful oneand it really supports what
we're talking about here today.
I want to go back to theconsistency and repetition.
We talk a lot aboutpersonalization a nd I know we
have to have that in ourcustomer experiences as well,
but some of the things that youneed to do on a consistent basis
(10:05):
and do repeatedly are whatbuilds a positive reputation.
People know what to expect fromyou.
Love or hate McDonald's, I thinkthey're the kings of this.
They are the kings ofconsistency and repetition.
Consistency and repetition iswhat wins and b uild an iconic
brand reputation.
(10:28):
I believe t hat experiences donot form customer loyalty, but
memories of experiences do.
So when I talk to my clients andwhen I do keynotes, I a sk them,
what can you do?
I always turn it into some kindof musical thing, but what can
you do to get your brand companystuck in the minds of your
consumers?
Or how can you keep your brandsong looping in their heads?
(10:48):
So they keep buying from youagain and again?
And one of the things I'll talkabout is this guy, the author
named Derek Thompson.
He has a book called Hitmakersand he says,"repetition is the
God particle of music." And Ilove it.
And he says,"repetition isnearly as integral to music as
the notes themselves." Andrepetition, I believe, is also
(11:10):
important to building an iconicbrand reputation.
So I love the music tied t o it.
I want to try something with youthat I usually do w ith my
keynotes.
And it says something about howimportant repetition can be.
Some of today's marketingcampaigns, they try hard, they
try to be t rendy and clever,but sometimes the call to
(11:32):
action, sometimes even theproduct, can get lost in the
message and the clutter.
For example, if I challenged youto name three ads from this past
year's Superbowl.
I know it was a while back.
I know you miss football.
(11:53):
Would you be able to do it?
Can you tell me or recall thecommercial o n the product
itself?
John Avola (11:59):
Without throwing out brand names that are there every
year, I don't think I can,
Calvin Stovall (12:06):
But I bet you one thing though, regardless of
how old you are, and I kind ofknow where you fall, but you
could probably name three discotunes from the 1970s.
And let me tell you why, becauseyou would most likely get those
much quicker again, like I said,regardless of your age, but when
you think about music in theseventies, those disco tunes,
(12:27):
they're always little ads withcalls to action right there in
the title, Get Up and Boogie,Shake Your Groove Thing, Get on
the Good Foot, Turn the BeatAround.
And now you can help me withthis.
Do a little dance, make a littlelove....
John Avola (12:42):
Get down tonight!
Calvin Stovall (12:44):
See, you know that.
And let me tell you why you knowthat, because repetition was
common in disco music just to besure you got the message.
And this system, it works thesame in customer experiences.
As quirky as that was, it'sreally the same thing.
Simply put, consistency andrepetition, it's the holy grail
when it comes to building areputation and brands that
(13:08):
customers love.
The better you're able to dothat on a consistent basis,
people begin to expect whatyou're going to deliver.
You deliver on those brandpromises on a consistent basis.
I truly believe you will build areputation, a positive one for
your brand.
John Avola (13:23):
Absolutely Calvin.
Elizabeth Arden, she's thefounder of Elizabeth Arden, Inc,
which is a cosmetic and skincareline and now owned by Revlon.
Just to kind of summarizeeverything you just said.
And this is her quote,"repetition makes reputation and
reputation makes customers."
Calvin Stovall (13:43):
That just supported the whole disco thing.
I think we've covered that firstone pretty well, which is to
make sure you're delivering aconsistent, positive customer
experience.
(14:04):
All right.
Next one.
Focus on nurturing brandpromoters and avoiding brand
detractors.
I'm going to talk a little bitabout those and I'm hoping for
those of you listening to us,you might be familiar with the
net promoter score.
That's where these two termscome from, promoters and
(14:24):
detractors.
And I'm going to go through thedefinition.
There's three categories to getto this score.
John Avola (14:30):
Just quickly touch on the net promoter score.
Just to simplify it for theaudience.
It's nothing more than acustomer engagement score.
That's all it is.
It's a score.
It's a zero to 10.
How likely are you to recommendthis particular company?
And based on that Likert scaleresult, Calvin take it away.
There are three outcomes.
Calvin Stovall (14:50):
Thank you.
So here we go.
A promoter is what you wouldcall a loyal or raving fan.
This would be an advocate.
John Avola (15:02):
That's your six and above.
It would be a score of one to10.
Calvin Stovall (15:06):
Yes.
These are what you would callyour reputation builders.
Let's call these peoplereputation builders.
So these are the people that aregoing to go out and they're
going to have a great experiencewith your brand.
They're going to go out and telleverybody, hey, make sure you go
try this product or service.
It was fantastic.
They're the ones who are goingto give you the reviews on Yelp.
(15:26):
They're going to be yourreputation builders.
John Avola (15:29):
Real quick Calvin.
These guys are, just to be sure,your advocates, your promoters.
They're not influencers.
I think that's a good key tomake.
It's not someone who's beingpaid to represent your company.
Someone going out, as Calvinsaid, on their own, and they're
saying, I love this brand.
And here's why, and you shouldtoo.
Calvin Stovall (15:49):
Absolutely.
This is free advertising foryou.
It doesn't cost you a dime.
And then the next group arecalled passives.
These are people that are on thefence.
They really don't have anyloyalty to you or anybody else.
They might like your brand, butif something else better comes
along, they're gone.
They really don't have anyimpact on your brand reputation.
(16:13):
It's unlikely that they're goingto go out and say anything.
They're going to be like, okay,it was cool.
And then move on.
They're in the middle of thescore.
I believe it's five to eight orsomething like that.
And then you have thedetractors.
These are what you call yourbrand assassins or what I'm
going to call reputationkillers.
These are the people you willreally want to avoid.
And I believe these are thepeople that give you a score
(16:35):
from one to four.
So basically how you end up withthe net promoter score.
They take your promoters andminus out your detractors and
whatever percentage is left,that's the score that you have.
And if you want to learn moreabout it, just look up net
promoter score, and you can kindof see where some brands fall.
They do an annual study all thetime and you can learn more
about it, but we are using ithere to really get you to focus
(16:58):
on the fact that you want asmany promoters or brand
reputation builders as possiblefor your brand.
Recall the last podcast we didwhere I talked about retention
is the new acquisition.
These are the people you want toretain.
You want to retain thosepromoters and have them keep
having positive experiences andgoing out, talking about your
(17:20):
brand.
John Avola (17:21):
Like you said, Calvin, your brand promoters are
extremely valuable, for yourreputation management.
They can elevate your reputationfrom average to iconic.
Calvin Stovall (17:32):
Yes, absolutely.
I love it.
Yes they can.
Yes they can.
John Avola (17:36):
But I did want to touch on the detractors as well.
I think it's important that wedon't ignore the detractors.
It's an opportunity to actquickly.
There is opportunity for yourdetractors to even help your
brand.
They may have some interestingfeedback or something that you
may, as a brand, not evenrealize to where you can make
(17:57):
changes based on some of thefeedback from a detractor.
You can encourage theirfeedback, make sure it's simple
for the customer to get in touchwith you.
And if you have a connection, ifyou have those connection points
established, make sure yourresponse time is attentive,
which I think we'll talk to herein a moment, as far as
opportunities there to improveyour reputation or being
(18:20):
attentive to your customer.
Not making them wait on hold,for example.
Taking the time to listen tothose detractors, show your
empathy and make sure they feelas though you're on their side.
And most importantly, be honest,especially when trying to help
detractors get more familiarwith your brand.
Calvin Stovall (18:40):
You don't want to shoot yourself in the foot
either.
You don't want to createdetractors.
I want to list a few things herethat would be a reputation
killer.
These are the things that youcould do.
If you want more detractors, ifyou want to track this, these
are the things you can do.
John Avola (18:56):
So what he's saying is avoid these by all means.
Calvin Stovall (19:00):
Exactly, by all means.
Do not have your customerscontact your company multiple
times for the exact same reason.
That is the most frustratingthing.
If they have to keep callingback, they're going to give up
and they're going to be donebeing put on hold for a long
time.
Just like you talked about John.
I'll give you an example.
(19:22):
I'm going to throw them outthere because I hope they fix
this situation.
I've had to call Verizon.
I bought an iPhone.
I had to call Verizon to checkabout my phone insurance, in
case I crack it or it gets lost.
I was on hold for 48 minutes and12 seconds.
(19:47):
48 minutes.
John Avola (19:51):
You probably forgot you were on hold!
Calvin Stovall (19:52):
I did.
I put the phone down and I hadit on the cabinet and then
later, I was walking arounddoing stuff and then all of a
sudden I heard somebody say hi.
The guy I did get was very, verykind, very nice, and very, very
(20:14):
helpful.
But think about it, you'rewaiting almost an hour to talk
to somebody and by the time youget them, you're pretty
frustrated.
So don't do that to yourcustomers.
Number three, having a customerrepeat their same issue to
several company reps over andover and over again.
Very frustrating.
John Avola (20:33):
And your story gets shorter, doesn't it?
Your first answer is you're justtelling them everything that's
going on.
The second guy, you're like, allright, I'm going to summarize
it.
By the third guy, you're like,all right, here's the problem.
Calvin Stovall (20:45):
Just that one sentence.
John Avola (20:47):
And you almost kind of feel bad for guy number three
or four.
You started off so nice and nowthat you repeated yourself ten
times, you're like, alright,dude, I know it's not your fault
but I've already told this storyten times.
So here it is.
Calvin Stovall (20:59):
So frustrating And just basically not being
easy to do business with and notdelivering on your promises.
Those are biggies.
And I think John, you hadmentioned one more.
John Avola (21:14):
I want to touch on the failure to innovate and meet
customer needs.
But also, before I jump intothat, back on not delivering the
promises, it's better to admityour limitations than to over
promise and under deliver.
And I just wanted to make thatpoint clear.
Over promising and/or promisingthings that you are unable to
(21:37):
complete is more detrimentalthan just being straight up and
saying, honestly, here's what wecan do.
Here's our solution.
And even taking the time tofollow up with someone after
that solution has beencompleted, to ensure
satisfaction, is a much waybetter way to approach it than
trying to over promise and thenunfortunately under deliver.
(22:00):
So I'm just wanting to call thatout there on not delivering
promises, because you don't wantto be a brand that continues to
put out things thatunfortunately they can't make
happen.
Calvin Stovall (22:11):
Absolutely.
Sometimes salespeople will makepromises that really can't be
delivered.
John Avola (22:19):
We've all experienced that.
Yes.
Hey, the sales guy told me.
Calvin Stovall (22:26):
Well, guess what, he was wrong!
John Avola (22:28):
Well, he's a sales guy and I'm the guy installing
it.
So here's how it's going to be.
Calvin Stovall (22:34):
That's a brand reputation killer.
John Avola (22:37):
And just to follow up on that last point there, the
failure to meet customer needs,the failure to innovate.
It's so important to stayinnovative and remain diverse
and not get disrupted by change,especially in the environment
we're all living in today.
Change is constant, nothing newthere, but now we've added an
additional fact with, of course,COVID and the pandemic that's
(23:00):
sweeping the world.
Regardless of the situation,staying ahead of the curve and
maintaining and keeping apositive reputation by adapting
to the customer needs andmonitoring those trends so
closely, Here's a company, Ithink it's on our mind, Calvin,
and that is Columbia House.
An example of not monitoringtrends closely.
(23:25):
You can buy 10 CDs for a penny.
but while they're sending outtheir brochures in the mail,
you've got Netflix that saw anew opportunity for streaming
media and they quickly pivotedto the streaming revolution.
(23:46):
And now you look at ColumbiaHouse.
It's unfortunate when anycompany declares bankruptcy, but
they are completely wiped out atthis point.
And you have someone likeNetflix that is completely gone
to where it is today.
And what's interesting aboutthat story, as I was just doing
a little research before ourpodcast today, Netflix started
(24:09):
after Columbia house and Netflixwent to Columbia house and said,
hey, can we work together?
I'll put advertising online foryour product If you put
advertising for our product inyour mailer brochures.
You know what they said?
No.
Netflix potentially could havesaved Columbia House with a
(24:32):
cross promotion.
They said no.
So anyway, I just thought thatwas interesting.
Calvin Stovall (24:36):
Didn't something similar happen to Blockbuster?
John Avola (24:40):
As a brick and mortar rental store, they
completely ignored the streamingrevolution.
Blockbuster, the same way.
They made that transition fromVHS to DVD and thought they were
golden.
Calvin Stovall (24:51):
Exactly, exactly.
John Avola (24:53):
The point is don't let your product define your
brand.
If you've defined yourself as aseller of analog film, you'll
ignore the digital revolution.
Kodak, for example, they wereactually the first company that
invented the digital camera in1975.
But leaders actually asked theinventor, it looks great, but
(25:13):
please let's keep this underwraps because they were afraid
to see what would happen to thefilm market, if a digital or
filmless photography was enteredinto the marketplace.
Another one, which I justthought was real interesting,
(25:35):
was if you've defined yourselfas an online advertising giant,
you'll ignore the importance ofonline search.
You look at Yahoo who actuallyhad the opportunity to buy two
big companies that were justgetting started.
Google back in 2002, justkicking off, Yahoo, had the
opportunity to buy them.
(25:56):
They turned it down.
Then a social networkingcompany.
You may know Facebook, 2006,still only opened to college
students, started negotiationswith Yahoo.
They fell through mostly becausethe decision on both accounts
was made to focus on media andin turn they neglected customer
(26:18):
trends and the need to improvethe user experience.
So I just thought those exampleswere real relevant today, and
that if your product is definingyour brand and you're not
diversifying yourself, there's aclear indication that your
reputation and not only yourreputation, but your company as
(26:38):
a whole could be falling.
Calvin Stovall (26:38):
John, I hear it.
Do I hear a P?
John Avola (26:48):
I do hear a P.
Perseverance.
Calvin Stovall (26:52):
That's right.
It's perseverance.
That's wonderful.
But again, we talk about thosefour Ps and perseverance always
ends up coming up.
In this environment, you've gotto pull that lever even more
than ever before.
I do want to cover one morething, John, around reputation.
I just want to throw out somestats because your reputation
matters.
(27:12):
It's everything.
Because you remember, you wantpeople to talk about you.
83% of customers say that a wordof mouth recommendation from a
friend or a family member makesthem more likely to purchase a
product or service.
So that's 8 out of 10.
You want to make sure.
And another thing that waswonderful is that millennials
actually are the biggest brandevangelists with 77% of them
(27:37):
making at least onerecommendation a month.
And 71%, as I mentioned before,of recommendations come from a
good customer experience.
So again, customer experience isthe key and delivering that on a
consistent basis as we talkedabout before, all of that
(27:58):
matters.
John Avola (28:00):
And those millennials, those millennials.
I may be one, but anyway,they're the largest consumer
group now as well.
Calvin Stovall (28:12):
Yes.
And you want as many millennialpromoters as you can possibly
get.
Let's move on to number three,which I think is also important.
Number three, are you ready?
Invest in creating a positiveemployee experience.
Now, you know me, John, I am....
John Avola (28:30):
Here we go.
Here we go.
He's standing up folks.
Calvin Stovall (28:35):
There is no- NO- customer experience without a
positive employee experience.
And 70% of a brand's reputationis driven by its employees.
So your reputation, if you'renot doing it right on the
inside, you're definitely notgoing to get it right on the
outside.
JW Marriott said,"take care ofyour associates and they will
(28:55):
take care of your customers."Companies that lead in customer
experience have 60% more engagedemployees.
And I think we've seen so manystudies that have shown
investing in employee experienceimpacts the customer experience
and can generate a high ROI foryour company.
What I want to really highlighthere is, John, you've got to
have the right leadership inplace.
John Avola (29:16):
You have to.
What is the old saying?
Happy employees equal evenhappier customers?
Calvin Stovall (29:21):
I love it.
Yes it does.
And really it's going to bevirtually impossible for you to
build an iconic brand reputationwithout having a proper
leadership in place.
It's not going to happen becauseI believe employees mirror and
they emulate what they see.
Your leaders have to walk thetalk.
They have to be able to transferyour brand's vision on a
(29:42):
consistent basis.
And remember your brand'sreputation is really just an
outward expression of theexperience your employees have
on the inside of yourorganization.
John Avola (29:52):
Absolutely.
How they think and feel is adirect reflection of the
company.
Calvin Stovall (29:58):
Yes.
When we talk about employees andtheir impact on creating the
magic in front of the customer,it is one of the most passionate
things I like to talk about,John, because people think
having the glitzy product andall of that stuff, yes, that's
important.
But if the customer isn't reallyconnected to your brand and
(30:21):
feeling like they're cared forthrough the employees that
deliver that service on a day today basis, it's all going to be
for nothing.
John Avola (30:27):
You mentioned a couple stats as well, and more
proof...
Gallup does an annual study,State of the American Workplace.
They recently reported thatemployees who are engaged are
more likely to improve customerservice that can result in 20%
increases in sales.
(30:48):
You're looking for low hangingfruit.
Calvin Stovall (30:53):
And when people hear, make your employees happy,
I think some people interpretthat as give them everything
they want.
That is not what we're saying.
What we're talking about ismaking sure they have the tools
and resources that they need todo their jobs with excellence.
We're talking about making surethey have learning and
development opportunities tocontinue to grow.
(31:13):
We're talking about you as aleader, having empathy,
demonstrating active listeningskills and making sure you're
responding to their needs.
That's what we're talking about.
John Avola (31:23):
Going to put in your 40 hours.
But it's the experience of those40 hours that these employees
take on that is a directreflection of your work.
Calvin Stovall (31:32):
Absolutely.
And that builds your reputation.
And in other words, everybody,regardless of your position in
the organization, has to takeownership of the customer
experience.
Everyone has to be reading anddelivering from the same sheet
of music.
Everybody, everybody.
John Avola (31:49):
Absolutely.
And you put those together,you've got your satisfied,
engaged employees.
They work harder, they havehigher morale.
They care more about the successof your company.
And they're going to go out oftheir way to satisfy the
customer needs.
Calvin Stovall (32:02):
Absolutely.
Because really if just oneperson within your organization
doesn't understand how importanttheir role is to the customer
experience, it's going to have anegative impact on your entire
company's reputation becauseyour customers don't see a
specific department.
They don't see one employee.
(32:22):
All they're going to see is onecompany, one entity, one brand.
Just remember you're all in thisthing together.
John Avola (32:30):
And to that point, the employees who deliver that
superior customer experiencedirectly link to, as you just
said, a positive brandreputation.
It's a direct link betweencustomers, employee
satisfaction, and customers.
Calvin Stovall (32:49):
And as I said before, I think when we were
talking about salespeople versusthe installers and so forth that
you want to make sure thatpeople are talking to one
another.
I talk about silos.
Silos are for farmers.
They're not for organizations.
So, you want to make sure thatpeople are talking to one
(33:09):
another, everybody understandstheir role in the customer
journey, and things of thatnature.
One of the quotes that I love issilos build the wall in people's
minds and create the barrier inorganizations' hearts.
I believe that.
John Avola (33:23):
We talked about Zappos earlier in our podcast.
They're dedicated to their ownemployees.
Listen to this though.
The company believes thatorganizational silos can
counteract a customer centricmindset.
And so it was all employees, aflexible structure, no formal
titles, and everyone workswithin a team that they're
(33:46):
passionate about.
Calvin Stovall (33:48):
There you go.
Okay.
Number four, are you ready?
Don't ignore the power of yourcustomers' online voice and how
much it can impact your brand'sreputation in this always on,
hyper-connected mobile world.
John Avola (34:07):
You must be talking about that megaphone, that
social media megaphone.
Calvin Stovall (34:12):
Customers are sharing their experiences
online, everywhere, and they caneasily share a bad experience
online with a few taps of thekeyboard.
This is why customer experiencehas never been more important
than ever before and why itneeds to be the soul of
everything that you do withinyour organization, every touch
point or what I like to callmoment of impact.
It must be more than functionaland transactional.
(34:32):
It's got to be real.
It's got to be authentic.
It has to be memorable.
And it has to bring your brandexperience to life.
You want your customers to talkand talk about you, remember
their interaction with you, andthen influence others to do
business with you.
That's really the trigger.
Good customer experience meanspositive word of mouth.
(34:54):
That's what we've been talkingabout.
That free advertising, thosepromoters again, when customers
have a good customer experiencethat are five times more likely
to recommend you to other peopleand they have the megaphone!
John Avola (35:09):
They have the megaphone and they're not afraid
to use it.
Calvin Stovall (35:14):
They share their sentiments with the world, like
I said, on the keyboard abouthow you either improved or
ruined their lives.
That easy.
Do not ignore the online voice.
John Avola (35:26):
No, no.
When I was just starting out andgetting some clients under Wild
Seed Marketing, when we werejust beginning years ago, it
took some selling.
The question was always, well,why do I need to be on social
media?
And my response was, yourcustomers are talking about you,
(35:47):
whether you like it or not.
They're talking about youbecause they have the avenue to
do so, anyone or everyonethey're already talking.
So you can either join theconversation or watch it happen.
But if you join theconversation, at least you've
got a seat at the table.
They're tweeting about yourlatest product or leaving
comments on your blog.
They're posting updates onFacebook and it's your job to
(36:11):
help manage that expectation.
Looking at the company sentimentand going back to the net
promoter scores and thepromoters and the detractors and
getting an opportunity to bepart of that conversation.
Calvin Stovall (36:25):
The scary thing about it all is you never know
who you're dealing with.
Do you remember that guy, DaveCarroll?
United Airlines?
Remember they broke his guitarand he was not happy.
He only wanted$1,200 in repairs,John.
(36:46):
And they just bounced him fromagent to agent.
And finally just said, nope,we're not going to do it.
We're not giving you anything.
This guy, he promised them thathe was going to write three
songs about the matter.
And he came up with this songcalled United Breaks Guitars and
(37:08):
it went viral on YouTube.
And then of course, by thattime, United changed their
course.
They wanted to offer him money.
He said, I don't even want it,donate it to somebody.
Check this out.
The YouTube video was posted onJuly 6th, 2009.
It amassed 150,000 views withinone day.
(37:32):
After that United contactedCarroll again, saying, please
let us fix it.
He said no.
The video had over half amillion views by July 9th, 5
million by mid August 2009, 10million by February 2011, 15
(37:52):
million by August 2015.
It hit 20 million views, 185,000likes, as of May 2020.
That's crazy, man.
John Avola (38:06):
I bet they wish they paid that$1500 bucks.
Calvin Stovall (38:11):
United's managing director of customer
relations, he telephoned Carrolla lot of times but Carroll
wasn't trying to hear it, buthere's the stat.
When we talk about brandreputation, it was widely
reported that within four weeksof the video being posted
online, United Airlines' stockprice fell 10%, about$180
(38:34):
million in value.
John Avola (38:36):
I didn't know that.
Calvin Stovall (38:37):
Now that's an extreme case.
John Avola (38:41):
But it shows the power.
Calvin Stovall (38:43):
It shows the power of online voice.
And again, you never know, theyhad no idea that this guy was a
musician They didn't know whothey were dealing with.
Now, no customer should betreated that way, but you just
never know.
John Avola (38:55):
And, Calvin on the flip side, McDonald's right, I'm
loving it.
And we talked about McDonald'sbecause they took to social
media in a little different way,where they are actively
listening and acting uponcustomer feedback.
A few things that you may noteven realize came out of
(39:17):
customer ideas through socialmedia.
Healthier menu options, that wasa direct request from social
media fans and followers.
Staying open longer or openingearlier, so adjusting their
store hours.
And, what we all love, all daybreakfast, right?
The all day breakfast came fromsocial media comments and
(39:42):
suggestions.
Calvin Stovall (39:43):
That's awesome.
Can you say, I'm loving it!
John Avola (39:46):
I'm loving it!
Calvin Stovall (39:49):
That's great.
I just want to share some statson the power of online reviews
because now we're all lookingonline.
John Avola (39:55):
How many times are you looking at a restaurant,
right?
You're going to look at thereviews or you're going to call
house repair or something.
You're going to look at thereviews.
You going to see a five starfrom one person or four stars
from 50 people, you're probablygoing to lean toward that four
stars.
(40:15):
Right.
It's a very interesting dynamic,but anyway, continue.
Calvin Stovall (40:20):
90% of consumers read online reviews before
visiting them.
John Avola (40:25):
We're there.
You and I are part of that 90%.
Calvin Stovall (40:28):
That's right.
82% of Yelp users say theytypically visit Yelp because
they intend to buy a product orservice.
Your reputation online is key.
John Avola (40:38):
They're trusting people they don't know.
Think about it.
Calvin Stovall (40:44):
I guess they figured you have to have had a
really great experience for youto be emotionally engaged enough
to go online and writesomething.
John Avola (40:55):
Positive or negative.
Calvin Stovall (40:56):
Positive or negative.
Absolutely.
John Avola (40:59):
Going back to Amazon, you check out those
products on Amazon.
You look at the reviews and thecounts.
I can't think of a product whereyou can't actually not see the
stars.
I think it's impossible becauseit's right under the product.
But how many times have youlooked at a product and you're
(41:20):
like, ooh, one, two stars, and8,000 reviews.
It makes you think twice.
Calvin Stovall (41:27):
I do it on everything, John, even movies on
Netflix.
They have a gazillion movies onNetflix, a zillion movies on
Amazon Prime.
I'm not going to watch all thosemovies.
They'll put a lot ofrecommendations.
You know what I do?
I go right on Rotten Tomatoesand put the movie in and it's
30% and I'm not doing it.
John Avola (41:49):
You're absolutely right.
Netflix tells you like 98%match.
You're going to love this.
You know what?
I'm going to look this up on areview first.
Netflix might know me, but thereviews are going to tell me
what's going on.
Calvin Stovall (42:03):
So make sure you're monitoring your company's
customer comments, thecomplaints and requests.
Respond in a timely manner.
Some of the things you justtalked about before, be
authentic and transparent inyour responses.
Nobody likes brand speak.
Just keep it real.
And as you mentioned earlier,collect feedback to make
improvements.
And yes, you're going to getsome bad complaints sometimes,
(42:25):
but if those are done properly,it's an opportunity to be
unforgettable.
You can create a positiveexperience from something that's
quite negative, but there's somestaggering stats.
These are again, how you cancreate a detractor, which is
what you don't want to do.
92% of companies do not followup with customers to see if they
(42:47):
are satisfied with the response.
So if something happens andgives a response, yes, good.
You went halfway there, which isgood.
You have to make sure they werehappy with what you responded,
but here's even worse.
32% of companies don't evenrespond to customer service
emails.
John Avola (43:08):
No response?
Calvin Stovall (43:11):
No response.
It's true.
I've sent out issues I may havehad.
Sometimes I get a response.
Sometimes I don't.
And it is probably about a thirdof the time I get nothing.
John Avola (43:24):
What a podcast!
Calvin Stovall (43:30):
So those are the four.
Quick review.
Deliver a consistent,frictionless, memorable customer
experience.
It is the best way to build andmaintain your kind of grand
reputation.
Have to do that.
Number one.
Number two, focus on nurturingbrand promoters and avoiding
brand detractors.
Push promoters up.
Get as many as you can.
Possibly avoid people talkingbad about you.
Number three, invest in creatinga positive employee experience.
(43:54):
Remember 70% of your brand'sperception,"reputation," is
driven by your team.
Positive employee experiencewill equal a positive customer
experience will equal positivereputation.
Number four, do not ignore thepower of your customer's online
voice.
You don't want to run into aDave Carroll.
(44:20):
Those are the four.
I think those are solid.
And again, like we always say,John, we talk about iconic
brands all the time.
When we talk about iconic, itdoesn't mean you have to be a
Fortune 500 company.
You don't have to be a Bank ofAmerica or any large
organizations that are outthere.
You could be the small pancakehouse on the corner.
John Avola (44:40):
Or the dumpling company! Five episodes in a row!
Calvin Stovall (44:51):
Figured the dumpling company was going to
find its way in and you neverlet me down.
So, John, I hope people gotsomething out of it.
John Avola (45:03):
I really enjoyed today's episode.
I think it was just so relevantin today's world.
And it's always good, Calvin, totalk with you and to share these
opportunities, these strategiesto become an iconic brand.
Like you said, no matter yourproduct, your service, how big
or small your organization maybe, you can still be iconic.
(45:25):
And that's why we're here.
Well, Calvin as always, thankyou so much for your time today.
Enjoyed it as always.
And for our listeners, if youwant to find out more, learn
more about some of the economyframework we've discussed, like
the four Ps, everything'savailable on
iconicpresentations.net.
You can also find our contactinformation there.
(45:46):
And we'd love to hear from you.
We'd love to get your feedback.
And most importantly, we listento you.
Calvin Stovall (45:51):
John, that's a good point.
If any of our listeners have anysuggestions or recommendations
on what you'd like to hear usdelve into, please feel free to
send us an email.
And we would love to do somefollow- up research and cover
that topic for you.
John Avola (46:06):
Absolutely.
We'd love that.
All right, Calvin.
Until next time, don't just be,be iconic.
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