October 26, 2024 • 22 mins
Unlock the secrets of living a meaningful life as we challenge popular misconceptions about Ikigai in a conversation led by AI co-hosts. Could it be that passion alone isn't the key to happiness? Journey through the complex dimensions of Ikigai as we revisit insights from the book "Ikigai Kan: Feel a Life Worth Living" and Japanese psychiatrist Miko Kamiya's seven psychological needs, from life satisfaction to self-development. We'll dismantle the Westernized Venn diagram interpretation and debunk the notion that Ikigai is solely an Okinawan treasure. It's time to understand how these elements contribute to a truly fulfilling life.
Our exploration doesn't stop at individual well-being; we also dive into the broader societal implications of Ikigai. Drawing from Nick Kemp's perspectives, we examine practices like Nikon, yutori, and shinrin-yoku that emphasize gratitude, relaxation, and connection with nature. Discover how cultural nuances and language can impact not just our personal Ikigai but also that of others. And as AI technology advances, we explore how it might offer new sources of meaning and purpose in our rapidly evolving world. Whether you're curious about the philosophical depths of Ikigai or its practical applications, this episode promises a transformative insight into living a balanced and purposeful life.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey, it's Nick Kemp here with another episode of the
Ikigai podcast, and this onewill be special.
I'm not having a guest and it'snot a solo episode.
This is an AI episode, and whatyou're about to hear is a
conversation between two AIco-hosts I guess we could call
(00:22):
them my American AI friends.
And what I've done I've usedNotebook LM to create this
podcast.
Basically, I gave Notebook LMmy book, ikigai Kan, and one
link to my about page of mywebsite, and they have taken
(00:43):
care of the rest and producedthis episode.
So essentially, this is a booksummary of Ikigai Kan Feel a
Life Worth Living.
So if you're thinking aboutbuying the book, this would be a
good episode to listen to, asit will give you a summary of my
(01:04):
book.
Now, there are a few quirkymistakes in this AI conversation
, but for the most part, I thinkyou'll be amazed at how they
converse, because it does soundvery real.
And for the last couple ofmonths, I've been thinking about
(01:24):
AI and its relationship toIkigai, and it's something I've
I guess I've held back on or hadperhaps some concerns about,
but AI is well and truly with us.
It's something we can embrace,and AI offers us the opportunity
(01:45):
to find new Ikigai sources, andI also recognize I guess AI
will also maybe remove somepotential sources of Ikigai in
our life, so it's somethingwe're going to have to learn to
adjust to.
So this is an example of that.
Now, I don't think I'll bemaking AI episodes in the future
(02:09):
, but I thought I would put onetogether because I'm also off to
Japan tomorrow for three weeksand I won't be able to record a
podcast and it is quite hard forme to find guests.
Usually I find guests who havewritten a paper on Ikigai and
that can take time.
Not all people wish to join meon the podcast, so sometimes I
(02:33):
do struggle to find guests.
All right, well, that's myintroduction, so I hope you
enjoy this conversation with mynew AI friends as they talk
about my book Ikigai Kan.
Find your Ikigai atikigaitribecom.
Speaker 2 (03:08):
Today we're going to be talking about Ikigai, but get
ready for some seriousmyth-busting.
Ooh myth-busting yeah becausewe're going way beyond that Venn
diagram.
You've probably seen.
Speaker 3 (03:18):
Oh yeah, you know the one that says Ikigai is where
your passion and your missionand your profession and your
vocation, like all, magicallyintersect.
Speaker 2 (03:25):
Exactly, we're diving deep into Ikigai-kan, the
Japanese concept for a lifeworth living.
Oh, by Nicholas Kemp.
Okay, and you could say thatNick is on a mission to set the
record straight about Ikigai.
Speaker 3 (03:40):
He really is.
He spent over five yearsstudying it, even interviewing
tons of experts and researchers,like in Japan and around the
world.
Speaker 2 (03:48):
So we're talking about a deep, culturally
accurate understanding here, notjust some quick Internet
summary.
Right, and what's fascinatingis that Nick was actually the
first person to point out thatthat whole Venn diagram thing,
yes, is a total Westerninvention.
Speaker 3 (04:01):
It's true, and he also debunks the idea that
Ikigai is like some secret tolongevity Right Only found in
Okinawa.
Those are just romantic notionsthat have taken hold in the
West.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
Okay, so let's unpack what Ikigai actually is
according to Nick and hisresearch.
Okay, he dives into the work ofMiko Kamiya, a Japanese
psychiatrist who had a reallyunique take on it.
Speaker 3 (04:26):
Yeah.
So Kamiya identified sevenpsychological needs that she
believes contribute to ikigaiken, which is that feeling that
life is worth living.
Got it, and it's not as simpleas do what you love and the
money will follow.
Speaker 2 (04:37):
So what are these seven needs?
I'm ready to take notes.
Speaker 3 (04:39):
All right.
So first there's lifesatisfaction, which is pretty
much what it sounds like Feelinglike your life is generally on
the right track.
Speaker 2 (04:45):
Makes sense.
We all want to feel like we'removing in a positive direction.
Speaker 3 (04:49):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (04:49):
What's next?
Speaker 3 (04:50):
So Camille also talks about the need for a bright
future.
Speaker 2 (04:53):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (04:54):
This one is all about having hope and optimism about
what lies ahead.
It could be things like settinggoals, you know, having things
to look forward to, feeling likeyou're working towards
something meaningful.
Speaker 2 (05:06):
I can see how that would tie into feeling like life
is worth living, right, okay,what else is there?
Speaker 3 (05:11):
Then there's resonance, which is more about
feeling connected to yoursurroundings and having a sense
of belonging.
Okay, and this highlights thesocial aspect of Ikigai, the
importance of relationships andfeeling accepted by others
interesting.
Speaker 2 (05:25):
So it's not just about personal fulfillment, but
also about our connection tosomething bigger than ourselves
absolutely yeah.
Speaker 3 (05:32):
And speaking of feeling connected, kamiya also
includes the need for freedomokay she describes this as like
the feeling of being able tomake choices and live
autonomously without beingoverly constrained by, you know,
external factors.
Speaker 2 (05:48):
Yeah, that's definitely something I think we
all crave to some degree, right?
What's next on the list?
Speaker 3 (05:53):
Next up is joy.
Okay, this one's prettystraightforward.
It's about experiencingpleasure, finding delight in the
simple things in life.
Speaker 2 (06:01):
Those little moments that make you smile.
Right, it sounds almost toosimple, but I guess it's easy to
forget to appreciate thosethings when we're just caught up
in the hustle and bustle oflife, absolutely.
Speaker 3 (06:12):
And then the sixth need is self-development, that
feeling of growth and learningconstantly evolving as a person.
Speaker 2 (06:19):
Like challenging yourself, expanding your
horizons Exactly.
I could definitely see how thatwould contribute to a feeling
of purpose.
Speaker 3 (06:27):
Right and finally, we have the need for meaning.
Speaker 2 (06:31):
Oh.
Speaker 3 (06:31):
This is about feeling like your life has purpose and
significance.
Speaker 2 (06:35):
Uh-huh.
Speaker 3 (06:35):
That your you know, your existence matters and
you're making a positivecontribution to the world.
Speaker 2 (06:41):
This is getting really interesting.
Speaker 3 (06:42):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:43):
So how does Nick tie all of this together?
Speaker 3 (06:45):
Hmm.
Speaker 2 (06:45):
Does he think you need to fulfill all seven of
these needs to experience trueikigai?
Speaker 3 (06:51):
He doesn't present it as a checklist.
Okay but rather as a frameworkfor understanding the different
facets of ikigai.
Speaker 1 (06:58):
Hmm.
Speaker 3 (06:58):
What's really interesting is how he connects
these needs to some uniquelyJapanese concepts.
Speaker 2 (07:03):
He connects these needs to some uniquely Japanese
concepts.
Give me an example.
Speaker 3 (07:05):
He talks about ibasho , which is often translated as a
place to be.
Speaker 2 (07:09):
So is that just a physical location like your home
or your favorite coffee shop?
Speaker 3 (07:13):
It can be, but it's more about finding a space,
whether it's physical or social,where you feel a sense of
belonging, security and purpose.
Speaker 2 (07:23):
Got it.
Speaker 3 (07:23):
Like finding your tribe, the people and the
environment where you can trulybe yourself.
Speaker 2 (07:28):
Right.
Speaker 3 (07:29):
And feel accepted.
Speaker 2 (07:30):
So it's more about feeling connected and supported,
whether that's through yourrelationships or your work, yeah
, your hobbies, or even onlinecommunities.
Speaker 3 (07:38):
Exactly.
Nick actually describes his ownexperience of finding Ibasho
and his family in nature Wow andeven in the online community.
He's built around Ikigai, so itcan take many forms.
Speaker 2 (07:49):
I love that.
So Ibasho is like thefoundation for experiencing
Ikigai yes, providing that senseof grounding and connection
that allows us to thrive.
Speaker 3 (07:59):
It's a powerful concept and one that really
resonated with me.
Speaker 2 (08:02):
This is already making me think about my own
life in a new way.
I'm curious to hear more aboutwhat Nick has to say about
finding Ikigai in everyday life.
Speaker 3 (08:10):
Well, he doesn't just explore these abstract concepts
.
He also emphasizes theimportance of action and
bringing Ikigai into our dailyroutines.
Speaker 2 (08:19):
So it's not just about thinking about these ideas
, it's about actually puttingthem into practice.
Speaker 3 (08:24):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:26):
How does he suggest we do that?
Speaker 3 (08:27):
He talks about Chantosuru, which essentially
means doing things properly andpaying attention to detail, even
in the most mundane tasks.
Speaker 2 (08:35):
So it's about bringing a sense of purpose and
mindfulness to everything we do,no matter how small.
Speaker 3 (08:41):
Right.
He argues that when we approachthings with Chanto, we're not
only contributing to our ownsense of satisfaction, but we're
also creating a more harmoniousenvironment for those around us
.
Speaker 2 (08:52):
It's like that ripple effect of positive action.
Yeah, I love that idea.
Speaker 3 (08:56):
And then there's kotowari, which is that
meticulous attention to detailthat goes beyond professional
obligation.
Speaker 2 (09:03):
So it's like going the extra mile because you care
deeply about what you're doing,not just because you have to.
Speaker 3 (09:08):
Exactly, and Nick gives the example of Japanese
craftsmen who pour their heartand soul into their work.
Right, it's about taking pridein what you do and striving for
excellence even if no one elsenotices.
Speaker 2 (09:20):
I'm starting to see how all of these ideas fit
together.
Speaker 3 (09:23):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:23):
It's not just about finding one thing, that is, your
ikigai.
Speaker 3 (09:27):
Right.
Speaker 2 (09:28):
It's more about approaching life with a certain
mindset.
Speaker 3 (09:32):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:32):
Instead of values.
Speaker 3 (09:33):
You got it.
It's about cultivating a senseof purpose, connection and joy
in everything you do.
Speaker 2 (09:39):
Sounds like a pretty awesome way to live.
Speaker 3 (09:41):
It is.
Speaker 2 (09:41):
I can't wait to hear what else Nick has to say.
Speaker 3 (09:43):
Me too.
There's so much more to explore.
Speaker 2 (09:46):
All right, so we've gotten a taste of Nick Kemp's
perspective on Ikigai.
Speaker 3 (09:49):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:50):
What else does he have to say?
Speaker 3 (09:51):
Well remember how he debunked those Western myths
about Ikigai being a secret tolongevity.
Speaker 2 (09:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (09:56):
Only found in Okinawa .
He doesn't stop there.
Okay, he also takes on thefamous Venn diagram.
Speaker 2 (10:02):
You mean the one that's all over the internet yes
Claiming.
Ikigai is where your passion,mission, profession and vocation
all intersect.
Ikigai is where your passion,mission, profession and vocation
all intersect.
Speaker 3 (10:10):
That's the one.
Nick actually traced it back toa blog post from 2014.
Speaker 2 (10:14):
Oh, wow.
It's a classic example of howan idea can get like totally
distorted as it spreads acrosscultures.
So the Venn diagram, whilemaybe a well-intentioned attempt
to visualize ikigai, actuallymisses the mark in terms of
cultural accuracy.
Speaker 3 (10:30):
Completely.
And what's great is that Nickdoesn't just criticize these
popular interpretations.
He offers a much deeperunderstanding based on his years
of research.
Speaker 2 (10:40):
Right.
Speaker 3 (10:40):
And interviews with experts like Akihiro Hasegawa
and Shintaro Kono.
Speaker 2 (10:45):
He's really bringing together a diverse range of
perspectives on Ikigai.
Speaker 3 (10:49):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (10:50):
It's not just his opinion.
He's backing it together adiverse range of perspectives on
ikigai.
Yes, it's not just his opinion.
He's backing it up withevidence, right and insights
from people who have dedicatedtheir lives to understanding
this concept.
Speaker 3 (10:57):
Exactly, and it's not just theory.
He makes it really relatable bysharing stories from his own
life in Japan, like hisfather-in-law, who's a master
craftsman Wow, and totallyembodies that spirit of Kotowari
.
Speaker 2 (11:09):
And meticulous attention to detail right.
Speaker 3 (11:12):
Exactly he also talks about observing his Japanese
colleagues navigating socialsituations with so much grace
and consideration.
Speaker 2 (11:21):
It's amazing how these seemingly small cultural
differences can reveal so muchabout a society's values.
It's fascinating to get thatinsider's perspective from
someone who has actually livedand worked in Japan.
Speaker 3 (11:36):
Right and he's honest about his own struggles to
adapt to a new culture and findhis own sense of ikigai.
He even talks aboutexperiencing ikisarasa.
Speaker 2 (11:44):
Ikisarasa.
What's that?
Speaker 3 (11:46):
It refers to the pain and suffering inherent in life.
Speaker 2 (11:48):
Oh, okay.
Speaker 3 (11:50):
He's acknowledging that finding ikigai doesn't mean
life will be perfect orproblem-free.
It's about finding meaning andpurpose even amidst challenges
and setbacks.
Speaker 2 (11:59):
So it's not about chasing some elusive state of
happiness, but rather aboutfinding a way to live a
fulfilling life even when thingsare tough.
Speaker 3 (12:07):
Precisely, and he doesn't shy away from some of
the darker aspects of Japanesesociety either.
Speaker 2 (12:12):
Like the phenomenon of hikikomori, where people
withdraw from social lifecompletely.
Speaker 3 (12:16):
It's a sobering reminder that ikigai isn't just
some feel-good concept.
Speaker 2 (12:21):
Right.
Speaker 3 (12:22):
It can have a real impact on mental health and
well-being.
But despite these heaviertopics, Nick's book is
ultimately optimistic.
Speaker 2 (12:30):
Absolutely, he offers practical advice for finding
more ikigai in our lives.
Despite these heavier topics,nick's book is ultimately
optimistic.
Absolutely, he offers practicaladvice for finding more Ikigai
in our lives, encouraging us toexplore different sources of it,
whether it's through work,hobbies, relationships or giving
back to society.
Speaker 3 (12:43):
He seems to be saying that there's no
one-size-fits-all approach toIkigai.
Speaker 2 (12:47):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (12:48):
It's about finding what truly resonates with you
and makes you feel alive.
Speaker 2 (12:52):
Yes, and it's a journey, not a destination,
right?
He encourages us to embraceorigami.
Origami, accepting things asthey are and finding meaning in
the present moment.
Got it.
And to remember Gambari Okay,persevering through challenges
and never giving up on pursuinga life worth living.
Speaker 3 (13:08):
He even talks about contributing to the Ikigai of
others.
Yes, Through acts of kindness,compassion and mentorship.
Speaker 2 (13:15):
It's like this beautiful cycle of meaning and
purpose, yeah, expanding outwardfrom our own individual
journeys.
Speaker 3 (13:22):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (13:23):
To touch the lives of others.
Speaker 3 (13:24):
I love that.
It really speaks to theinterconnectedness of Ikigai.
Yeah, how it's not just aboutindividual fulfillment, but also
about our impact on the worldaround us.
Speaker 2 (13:34):
I'm really struck by how much emphasis Nick puts on
this idea of self-actualization.
Speaker 3 (13:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:41):
But in a way that feels different from what we
usually hear in the West.
Speaker 3 (13:44):
Right, he challenges that Western idea of striving to
be the best version ofourselves.
Yeah, which can sometimes feelvery pressure filled and
unattainable.
Speaker 2 (13:54):
He talks about shokuni damashi, the craftsman
spirit of constantly seekingimprovement even when your work
is already exceptional.
Speaker 3 (14:01):
It's more about the journey of growth and
development rather than reachingsome idealized end goal.
It's so refreshing.
Speaker 2 (14:08):
He also reminds us that ikigai isn't just about
what we do for ourselves, butalso about fulfilling our roles
within society, that idea of it,and finding unity and belonging
in those roles.
Speaker 3 (14:19):
That's a very different perspective than the
individualistic focus we oftensee in the West.
Speaker 2 (14:24):
It is and it makes you think about how our cultural
background influences ourunderstanding of ikigai.
Speaker 3 (14:30):
Right.
Speaker 2 (14:31):
It's not just this universal concept that applies
to everyone in the same wayExactly.
It's shaped by the values andtraditions of our culture.
Speaker 3 (14:37):
So how do we reconcile those different
perspectives?
Speaker 1 (14:40):
Right.
Speaker 3 (14:41):
How do we find a balance between individual
fulfillment and contributing tothe collective good?
Speaker 2 (14:47):
That's a great question, and one that Nick
explores through the Japanesepractice of Nikon.
Speaker 3 (14:52):
Oh nice.
Speaker 2 (14:53):
Nikon.
Tell me more.
Speaker 3 (14:55):
It's a self-reflection technique that
encourages you to contemplateyour interconnectedness with
others and the impact you haveon them.
It's about cultivatinggratitude and appreciating the
kindness and support you receivefrom others.
Speaker 2 (15:08):
Wow, that sounds like a really powerful practice,
almost like shifting yourperspective from a self-centered
focus to a more other-orientedone.
Speaker 3 (15:16):
Exactly, and Nick believes that this shift can be
incredibly transformative,helping us to see the world
through a lens of compassion andconnection, which ultimately
deepens our own sense of ikigai.
Speaker 2 (15:28):
I'm really intrigued by this idea.
Does he give any practical tipsfor incorporating Nikon into
our lives?
Speaker 3 (15:34):
He does.
He suggests things likejournaling or simply taking a
few moments each day to reflecton your relationships and the
ways you've been supported byothers.
Speaker 2 (15:44):
Simple but powerful.
Speaker 3 (15:45):
Yes, simple but powerful.
Speaker 2 (15:47):
It's a good reminder that even small acts of
mindfulness and gratitude canhave a big impact on our overall
well-being.
This is all making me thinkabout that Japanese concept of
yutori.
Speaker 3 (15:59):
Yes, Nick talks about that too.
Speaker 2 (16:00):
It's that sense of spaciousness and ease we often
crave in our busy lives.
Speaker 3 (16:05):
Like creating space for reflection, relaxation and
connection with nature.
He shares his personalexperience of finding yutori in
his favorite nature spot andtalks about disconnecting from
technology, immersing ourselvesin the natural world to recharge
and find peace.
He even mentions shinrin-yoku,or forest bathing.
Speaker 2 (16:24):
That's the Japanese practice of spending time in
nature to improve yourwell-being right, it is.
I heard so much about it.
Speaker 3 (16:32):
And it ties back to that idea of slowing down,
tuning into our senses andsimply being present in the
moment.
Speaker 2 (16:38):
It's almost like a counterpoint to the Western
obsession with productivity andachievement.
Speaker 3 (16:43):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (16:43):
We're always being told to do more, be more,
achieve more, right, but Nickseems to be saying that true
fulfillment comes from slowingdown and appreciating the simple
things.
Speaker 3 (16:53):
He definitely challenges that Western mindset.
He encourages us to createspace for rest, reflection and
connection with nature, not as ameans to an end but as an end
in itself.
Speaker 2 (17:03):
I love that.
It's a reminder that sometimesthe most valuable thing we can
do is just be present in themoment and allow ourselves to
just be.
Speaker 3 (17:09):
Couldn't agree more, and that's a powerful message in
a world that's constantlypushing us to do more, more,
more.
Speaker 2 (17:14):
It's a reminder that true Ikigai isn't about chasing
some future state of happiness,but about finding meaning and
joy right now, in the presentmoment, however it unfolds.
It's fascinating how Nick usesthese everyday examples from
Japanese life to explain thedeeper meaning of ikigai.
He brings up some phrases thatreally highlight those cultural
(17:36):
differences.
Speaker 3 (17:36):
Oh yeah, for sure.
Speaker 2 (17:38):
He talks about phrases like ojama shimasu.
You know which like literallytranslates to I'm disturbing you
, but, like Nick explains, it'snot really meant as an apology
for intruding.
Speaker 3 (17:47):
Right.
Speaker 2 (17:48):
It's more about acknowledging someone's space
and showing respect when you'reentering their home.
Speaker 3 (17:52):
It's a subtle but powerful way of expressing that
consideration for others.
That's such an important partof Japanese culture.
Speaker 2 (17:59):
Exactly.
And then there's ochikare samadesu, which means you are tired,
but it's actually used toacknowledge someone's hard work
and effort.
It's like saying I see you, Iappreciate your effort.
Speaker 3 (18:10):
I love how these little phrases seem so simple on
the surface, but they reveal somuch about a culture's values.
Speaker 2 (18:16):
It's really interesting how language can
reflect those deeper beliefs.
Speaker 3 (18:19):
It really is, and it's not just about saying the
right words either.
Nick also tells this funnystory about a time when he
accidentally caused mewaku whichis like trouble by
misinterpreting a social cue ata bar.
Speaker 2 (18:32):
Oh no.
Speaker 3 (18:33):
Yeah, it's a pretty lighthearted example, but it
just highlights how importantcultural sensitivity is and
understanding those kind ofunspoken rules of communication.
Speaker 2 (18:43):
It shows how even small missteps can have social
consequences, especially in aculture that values harmony and
respect so highly.
Speaker 3 (18:51):
Exactly.
But it's not just aboutavoiding mewaku, you know.
Nick also talks about how wecan actually contribute to the
ikigai of others.
Speaker 1 (18:58):
Right.
Speaker 3 (18:59):
He brings up the concept of urshigai, the joy of
teaching and mentoring.
Speaker 2 (19:03):
That's a really beautiful concept recognizing
that we all have somethingvaluable to offer, whether it's
our knowledge or skills or justbeing a good listener.
Speaker 3 (19:11):
Yeah, it's about you know, seeing the potential in
others and helping them todiscover their own Ikigai.
Speaker 2 (19:16):
And that brings us back to this theme of
interconnectedness that runsthrough Nick's whole book.
It's not just about our ownpersonal fulfillment.
It's about understanding thatwe're all connected and our
actions can have a positiveimpact on others.
Speaker 3 (19:30):
Absolutely so.
As we wrap up this deep diveinto Nick Kemp's Ikigai Kan, I
think it's clear that he givesus a much more nuanced and
culturally rich understanding ofikigai than those
oversimplified versions we oftenhear.
Speaker 2 (19:45):
He really challenges those common misconceptions and
encourages us to embrace a moreholistic perspective.
Speaker 3 (19:51):
Exactly.
It's not just about finding adream job, you know.
It's about cultivating a way oflife that's full of meaning,
purpose and connection.
Speaker 2 (19:59):
And finding what truly makes you feel alive and
sharing that joy with others.
Speaker 3 (20:03):
What resonated most with you during our discussion.
Speaker 2 (20:05):
I think I'm still really intrigued by how much
emphasis is placed on socialroles and responsibility in the
Japanese approach to ikigai.
Speaker 3 (20:13):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:14):
It's definitely a different way of thinking about
it than that individualisticfocus we see so much in Western
cultures.
Speaker 3 (20:20):
That's true.
It makes you wonder.
You know, how can we find thatbalance between those different
viewpoints?
Speaker 2 (20:25):
It's a great question to keep in mind as you continue
exploring Ikigai in your ownlife.
Speaker 3 (20:30):
And, as we bring this episode to a close, we really
hope that it's inspired you tolook beyond those simple
explanations of Ikigai.
Speaker 2 (20:37):
To dig deeper into the rich cultural and
philosophical roots of thisfascinating concept.
Speaker 3 (20:42):
And remember Ikigai is a journey, not a destination.
Speaker 2 (20:45):
So start small experiment.
Speaker 3 (20:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:47):
And be open to discovering all the many sources
of meaning and purpose that arewaiting for you out there.
Speaker 1 (20:53):
That's it An AI-generated summary of my book.
Ikigai Can Feel a Life WorthLiving.
What did you think?
Apart from a few quirky errorshere and there, it was very
impressive, and I think this isa sign of the rapid changes
we're about to experience withAI.
(21:14):
And perhaps AI will create newsources of Ikigai in our lives
and also offer us the timefreedom to enjoy our Ikigai
sources.
Now, if you'd like a copy of mybook, you'll find it on Amazon,
(21:35):
and so with that I'll saygoodbye, and on my next episode
I'll be talking to a real human.
Thanks for listening.
Hey, it's Nick Kemp here with another episode of the
Ikigai podcast, and this onewill be special.
I'm not having a guest and it'snot a solo episode.
This is an AI episode, and whatyou're about to hear is a
conversation between two AIco-hosts I guess we could call
(00:22):
them my American AI friends.
And what I've done I've usedNotebook LM to create this
podcast.
Basically, I gave Notebook LMmy book, ikigai Kan, and one
link to my about page of mywebsite, and they have taken
(00:43):
care of the rest and producedthis episode.
So essentially, this is a booksummary of Ikigai Kan Feel a
Life Worth Living.
So if you're thinking aboutbuying the book, this would be a
good episode to listen to, asit will give you a summary of my
(01:04):
book.
Now, there are a few quirkymistakes in this AI conversation
, but for the most part, I thinkyou'll be amazed at how they
converse, because it does soundvery real.
And for the last couple ofmonths, I've been thinking about
(01:24):
AI and its relationship toIkigai, and it's something I've
I guess I've held back on or hadperhaps some concerns about,
but AI is well and truly with us.
It's something we can embrace,and AI offers us the opportunity
(01:45):
to find new Ikigai sources, andI also recognize I guess AI
will also maybe remove somepotential sources of Ikigai in
our life, so it's somethingwe're going to have to learn to
adjust to.
So this is an example of that.
Now, I don't think I'll bemaking AI episodes in the future
(02:09):
, but I thought I would put onetogether because I'm also off to
Japan tomorrow for three weeksand I won't be able to record a
podcast and it is quite hard forme to find guests.
Usually I find guests who havewritten a paper on Ikigai and
that can take time.
Not all people wish to join meon the podcast, so sometimes I
(02:33):
do struggle to find guests.
All right, well, that's myintroduction, so I hope you
enjoy this conversation with mynew AI friends as they talk
about my book Ikigai Kan.
Find your Ikigai atikigaitribecom.
Speaker 2 (03:08):
Today we're going to be talking about Ikigai, but get
ready for some seriousmyth-busting.
Ooh myth-busting yeah becausewe're going way beyond that Venn
diagram.
You've probably seen.
Speaker 3 (03:18):
Oh yeah, you know the one that says Ikigai is where
your passion and your missionand your profession and your
vocation, like all, magicallyintersect.
Speaker 2 (03:25):
Exactly, we're diving deep into Ikigai-kan, the
Japanese concept for a lifeworth living.
Oh, by Nicholas Kemp.
Okay, and you could say thatNick is on a mission to set the
record straight about Ikigai.
Speaker 3 (03:40):
He really is.
He spent over five yearsstudying it, even interviewing
tons of experts and researchers,like in Japan and around the
world.
Speaker 2 (03:48):
So we're talking about a deep, culturally
accurate understanding here, notjust some quick Internet
summary.
Right, and what's fascinatingis that Nick was actually the
first person to point out thatthat whole Venn diagram thing,
yes, is a total Westerninvention.
Speaker 3 (04:01):
It's true, and he also debunks the idea that
Ikigai is like some secret tolongevity Right Only found in
Okinawa.
Those are just romantic notionsthat have taken hold in the
West.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
Okay, so let's unpack what Ikigai actually is
according to Nick and hisresearch.
Okay, he dives into the work ofMiko Kamiya, a Japanese
psychiatrist who had a reallyunique take on it.
Speaker 3 (04:26):
Yeah.
So Kamiya identified sevenpsychological needs that she
believes contribute to ikigaiken, which is that feeling that
life is worth living.
Got it, and it's not as simpleas do what you love and the
money will follow.
Speaker 2 (04:37):
So what are these seven needs?
I'm ready to take notes.
Speaker 3 (04:39):
All right.
So first there's lifesatisfaction, which is pretty
much what it sounds like Feelinglike your life is generally on
the right track.
Speaker 2 (04:45):
Makes sense.
We all want to feel like we'removing in a positive direction.
Speaker 3 (04:49):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (04:49):
What's next?
Speaker 3 (04:50):
So Camille also talks about the need for a bright
future.
Speaker 2 (04:53):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (04:54):
This one is all about having hope and optimism about
what lies ahead.
It could be things like settinggoals, you know, having things
to look forward to, feeling likeyou're working towards
something meaningful.
Speaker 2 (05:06):
I can see how that would tie into feeling like life
is worth living, right, okay,what else is there?
Speaker 3 (05:11):
Then there's resonance, which is more about
feeling connected to yoursurroundings and having a sense
of belonging.
Okay, and this highlights thesocial aspect of Ikigai, the
importance of relationships andfeeling accepted by others
interesting.
Speaker 2 (05:25):
So it's not just about personal fulfillment, but
also about our connection tosomething bigger than ourselves
absolutely yeah.
Speaker 3 (05:32):
And speaking of feeling connected, kamiya also
includes the need for freedomokay she describes this as like
the feeling of being able tomake choices and live
autonomously without beingoverly constrained by, you know,
external factors.
Speaker 2 (05:48):
Yeah, that's definitely something I think we
all crave to some degree, right?
What's next on the list?
Speaker 3 (05:53):
Next up is joy.
Okay, this one's prettystraightforward.
It's about experiencingpleasure, finding delight in the
simple things in life.
Speaker 2 (06:01):
Those little moments that make you smile.
Right, it sounds almost toosimple, but I guess it's easy to
forget to appreciate thosethings when we're just caught up
in the hustle and bustle oflife, absolutely.
Speaker 3 (06:12):
And then the sixth need is self-development, that
feeling of growth and learningconstantly evolving as a person.
Speaker 2 (06:19):
Like challenging yourself, expanding your
horizons Exactly.
I could definitely see how thatwould contribute to a feeling
of purpose.
Speaker 3 (06:27):
Right and finally, we have the need for meaning.
Speaker 2 (06:31):
Oh.
Speaker 3 (06:31):
This is about feeling like your life has purpose and
significance.
Speaker 2 (06:35):
Uh-huh.
Speaker 3 (06:35):
That your you know, your existence matters and
you're making a positivecontribution to the world.
Speaker 2 (06:41):
This is getting really interesting.
Speaker 3 (06:42):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:43):
So how does Nick tie all of this together?
Speaker 3 (06:45):
Hmm.
Speaker 2 (06:45):
Does he think you need to fulfill all seven of
these needs to experience trueikigai?
Speaker 3 (06:51):
He doesn't present it as a checklist.
Okay but rather as a frameworkfor understanding the different
facets of ikigai.
Speaker 1 (06:58):
Hmm.
Speaker 3 (06:58):
What's really interesting is how he connects
these needs to some uniquelyJapanese concepts.
Speaker 2 (07:03):
He connects these needs to some uniquely Japanese
concepts.
Give me an example.
Speaker 3 (07:05):
He talks about ibasho , which is often translated as a
place to be.
Speaker 2 (07:09):
So is that just a physical location like your home
or your favorite coffee shop?
Speaker 3 (07:13):
It can be, but it's more about finding a space,
whether it's physical or social,where you feel a sense of
belonging, security and purpose.
Speaker 2 (07:23):
Got it.
Speaker 3 (07:23):
Like finding your tribe, the people and the
environment where you can trulybe yourself.
Speaker 2 (07:28):
Right.
Speaker 3 (07:29):
And feel accepted.
Speaker 2 (07:30):
So it's more about feeling connected and supported,
whether that's through yourrelationships or your work, yeah
, your hobbies, or even onlinecommunities.
Speaker 3 (07:38):
Exactly.
Nick actually describes his ownexperience of finding Ibasho
and his family in nature Wow andeven in the online community.
He's built around Ikigai, so itcan take many forms.
Speaker 2 (07:49):
I love that.
So Ibasho is like thefoundation for experiencing
Ikigai yes, providing that senseof grounding and connection
that allows us to thrive.
Speaker 3 (07:59):
It's a powerful concept and one that really
resonated with me.
Speaker 2 (08:02):
This is already making me think about my own
life in a new way.
I'm curious to hear more aboutwhat Nick has to say about
finding Ikigai in everyday life.
Speaker 3 (08:10):
Well, he doesn't just explore these abstract concepts
.
He also emphasizes theimportance of action and
bringing Ikigai into our dailyroutines.
Speaker 2 (08:19):
So it's not just about thinking about these ideas
, it's about actually puttingthem into practice.
Speaker 3 (08:24):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:26):
How does he suggest we do that?
Speaker 3 (08:27):
He talks about Chantosuru, which essentially
means doing things properly andpaying attention to detail, even
in the most mundane tasks.
Speaker 2 (08:35):
So it's about bringing a sense of purpose and
mindfulness to everything we do,no matter how small.
Speaker 3 (08:41):
Right.
He argues that when we approachthings with Chanto, we're not
only contributing to our ownsense of satisfaction, but we're
also creating a more harmoniousenvironment for those around us
.
Speaker 2 (08:52):
It's like that ripple effect of positive action.
Yeah, I love that idea.
Speaker 3 (08:56):
And then there's kotowari, which is that
meticulous attention to detailthat goes beyond professional
obligation.
Speaker 2 (09:03):
So it's like going the extra mile because you care
deeply about what you're doing,not just because you have to.
Speaker 3 (09:08):
Exactly, and Nick gives the example of Japanese
craftsmen who pour their heartand soul into their work.
Right, it's about taking pridein what you do and striving for
excellence even if no one elsenotices.
Speaker 2 (09:20):
I'm starting to see how all of these ideas fit
together.
Speaker 3 (09:23):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:23):
It's not just about finding one thing, that is, your
ikigai.
Speaker 3 (09:27):
Right.
Speaker 2 (09:28):
It's more about approaching life with a certain
mindset.
Speaker 3 (09:32):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:32):
Instead of values.
Speaker 3 (09:33):
You got it.
It's about cultivating a senseof purpose, connection and joy
in everything you do.
Speaker 2 (09:39):
Sounds like a pretty awesome way to live.
Speaker 3 (09:41):
It is.
Speaker 2 (09:41):
I can't wait to hear what else Nick has to say.
Speaker 3 (09:43):
Me too.
There's so much more to explore.
Speaker 2 (09:46):
All right, so we've gotten a taste of Nick Kemp's
perspective on Ikigai.
Speaker 3 (09:49):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:50):
What else does he have to say?
Speaker 3 (09:51):
Well remember how he debunked those Western myths
about Ikigai being a secret tolongevity.
Speaker 2 (09:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (09:56):
Only found in Okinawa .
He doesn't stop there.
Okay, he also takes on thefamous Venn diagram.
Speaker 2 (10:02):
You mean the one that's all over the internet yes
Claiming.
Ikigai is where your passion,mission, profession and vocation
all intersect.
Ikigai is where your passion,mission, profession and vocation
all intersect.
Speaker 3 (10:10):
That's the one.
Nick actually traced it back toa blog post from 2014.
Speaker 2 (10:14):
Oh, wow.
It's a classic example of howan idea can get like totally
distorted as it spreads acrosscultures.
So the Venn diagram, whilemaybe a well-intentioned attempt
to visualize ikigai, actuallymisses the mark in terms of
cultural accuracy.
Speaker 3 (10:30):
Completely.
And what's great is that Nickdoesn't just criticize these
popular interpretations.
He offers a much deeperunderstanding based on his years
of research.
Speaker 2 (10:40):
Right.
Speaker 3 (10:40):
And interviews with experts like Akihiro Hasegawa
and Shintaro Kono.
Speaker 2 (10:45):
He's really bringing together a diverse range of
perspectives on Ikigai.
Speaker 3 (10:49):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (10:50):
It's not just his opinion.
He's backing it together adiverse range of perspectives on
ikigai.
Yes, it's not just his opinion.
He's backing it up withevidence, right and insights
from people who have dedicatedtheir lives to understanding
this concept.
Speaker 3 (10:57):
Exactly, and it's not just theory.
He makes it really relatable bysharing stories from his own
life in Japan, like hisfather-in-law, who's a master
craftsman Wow, and totallyembodies that spirit of Kotowari
.
Speaker 2 (11:09):
And meticulous attention to detail right.
Speaker 3 (11:12):
Exactly he also talks about observing his Japanese
colleagues navigating socialsituations with so much grace
and consideration.
Speaker 2 (11:21):
It's amazing how these seemingly small cultural
differences can reveal so muchabout a society's values.
It's fascinating to get thatinsider's perspective from
someone who has actually livedand worked in Japan.
Speaker 3 (11:36):
Right and he's honest about his own struggles to
adapt to a new culture and findhis own sense of ikigai.
He even talks aboutexperiencing ikisarasa.
Speaker 2 (11:44):
Ikisarasa.
What's that?
Speaker 3 (11:46):
It refers to the pain and suffering inherent in life.
Speaker 2 (11:48):
Oh, okay.
Speaker 3 (11:50):
He's acknowledging that finding ikigai doesn't mean
life will be perfect orproblem-free.
It's about finding meaning andpurpose even amidst challenges
and setbacks.
Speaker 2 (11:59):
So it's not about chasing some elusive state of
happiness, but rather aboutfinding a way to live a
fulfilling life even when thingsare tough.
Speaker 3 (12:07):
Precisely, and he doesn't shy away from some of
the darker aspects of Japanesesociety either.
Speaker 2 (12:12):
Like the phenomenon of hikikomori, where people
withdraw from social lifecompletely.
Speaker 3 (12:16):
It's a sobering reminder that ikigai isn't just
some feel-good concept.
Speaker 2 (12:21):
Right.
Speaker 3 (12:22):
It can have a real impact on mental health and
well-being.
But despite these heaviertopics, Nick's book is
ultimately optimistic.
Speaker 2 (12:30):
Absolutely, he offers practical advice for finding
more ikigai in our lives.
Despite these heavier topics,nick's book is ultimately
optimistic.
Absolutely, he offers practicaladvice for finding more Ikigai
in our lives, encouraging us toexplore different sources of it,
whether it's through work,hobbies, relationships or giving
back to society.
Speaker 3 (12:43):
He seems to be saying that there's no
one-size-fits-all approach toIkigai.
Speaker 2 (12:47):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (12:48):
It's about finding what truly resonates with you
and makes you feel alive.
Speaker 2 (12:52):
Yes, and it's a journey, not a destination,
right?
He encourages us to embraceorigami.
Origami, accepting things asthey are and finding meaning in
the present moment.
Got it.
And to remember Gambari Okay,persevering through challenges
and never giving up on pursuinga life worth living.
Speaker 3 (13:08):
He even talks about contributing to the Ikigai of
others.
Yes, Through acts of kindness,compassion and mentorship.
Speaker 2 (13:15):
It's like this beautiful cycle of meaning and
purpose, yeah, expanding outwardfrom our own individual
journeys.
Speaker 3 (13:22):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (13:23):
To touch the lives of others.
Speaker 3 (13:24):
I love that.
It really speaks to theinterconnectedness of Ikigai.
Yeah, how it's not just aboutindividual fulfillment, but also
about our impact on the worldaround us.
Speaker 2 (13:34):
I'm really struck by how much emphasis Nick puts on
this idea of self-actualization.
Speaker 3 (13:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:41):
But in a way that feels different from what we
usually hear in the West.
Speaker 3 (13:44):
Right, he challenges that Western idea of striving to
be the best version ofourselves.
Yeah, which can sometimes feelvery pressure filled and
unattainable.
Speaker 2 (13:54):
He talks about shokuni damashi, the craftsman
spirit of constantly seekingimprovement even when your work
is already exceptional.
Speaker 3 (14:01):
It's more about the journey of growth and
development rather than reachingsome idealized end goal.
It's so refreshing.
Speaker 2 (14:08):
He also reminds us that ikigai isn't just about
what we do for ourselves, butalso about fulfilling our roles
within society, that idea of it,and finding unity and belonging
in those roles.
Speaker 3 (14:19):
That's a very different perspective than the
individualistic focus we oftensee in the West.
Speaker 2 (14:24):
It is and it makes you think about how our cultural
background influences ourunderstanding of ikigai.
Speaker 3 (14:30):
Right.
Speaker 2 (14:31):
It's not just this universal concept that applies
to everyone in the same wayExactly.
It's shaped by the values andtraditions of our culture.
Speaker 3 (14:37):
So how do we reconcile those different
perspectives?
Speaker 1 (14:40):
Right.
Speaker 3 (14:41):
How do we find a balance between individual
fulfillment and contributing tothe collective good?
Speaker 2 (14:47):
That's a great question, and one that Nick
explores through the Japanesepractice of Nikon.
Speaker 3 (14:52):
Oh nice.
Speaker 2 (14:53):
Nikon.
Tell me more.
Speaker 3 (14:55):
It's a self-reflection technique that
encourages you to contemplateyour interconnectedness with
others and the impact you haveon them.
It's about cultivatinggratitude and appreciating the
kindness and support you receivefrom others.
Speaker 2 (15:08):
Wow, that sounds like a really powerful practice,
almost like shifting yourperspective from a self-centered
focus to a more other-orientedone.
Speaker 3 (15:16):
Exactly, and Nick believes that this shift can be
incredibly transformative,helping us to see the world
through a lens of compassion andconnection, which ultimately
deepens our own sense of ikigai.
Speaker 2 (15:28):
I'm really intrigued by this idea.
Does he give any practical tipsfor incorporating Nikon into
our lives?
Speaker 3 (15:34):
He does.
He suggests things likejournaling or simply taking a
few moments each day to reflecton your relationships and the
ways you've been supported byothers.
Speaker 2 (15:44):
Simple but powerful.
Speaker 3 (15:45):
Yes, simple but powerful.
Speaker 2 (15:47):
It's a good reminder that even small acts of
mindfulness and gratitude canhave a big impact on our overall
well-being.
This is all making me thinkabout that Japanese concept of
yutori.
Speaker 3 (15:59):
Yes, Nick talks about that too.
Speaker 2 (16:00):
It's that sense of spaciousness and ease we often
crave in our busy lives.
Speaker 3 (16:05):
Like creating space for reflection, relaxation and
connection with nature.
He shares his personalexperience of finding yutori in
his favorite nature spot andtalks about disconnecting from
technology, immersing ourselvesin the natural world to recharge
and find peace.
He even mentions shinrin-yoku,or forest bathing.
Speaker 2 (16:24):
That's the Japanese practice of spending time in
nature to improve yourwell-being right, it is.
I heard so much about it.
Speaker 3 (16:32):
And it ties back to that idea of slowing down,
tuning into our senses andsimply being present in the
moment.
Speaker 2 (16:38):
It's almost like a counterpoint to the Western
obsession with productivity andachievement.
Speaker 3 (16:43):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (16:43):
We're always being told to do more, be more,
achieve more, right, but Nickseems to be saying that true
fulfillment comes from slowingdown and appreciating the simple
things.
Speaker 3 (16:53):
He definitely challenges that Western mindset.
He encourages us to createspace for rest, reflection and
connection with nature, not as ameans to an end but as an end
in itself.
Speaker 2 (17:03):
I love that.
It's a reminder that sometimesthe most valuable thing we can
do is just be present in themoment and allow ourselves to
just be.
Speaker 3 (17:09):
Couldn't agree more, and that's a powerful message in
a world that's constantlypushing us to do more, more,
more.
Speaker 2 (17:14):
It's a reminder that true Ikigai isn't about chasing
some future state of happiness,but about finding meaning and
joy right now, in the presentmoment, however it unfolds.
It's fascinating how Nick usesthese everyday examples from
Japanese life to explain thedeeper meaning of ikigai.
He brings up some phrases thatreally highlight those cultural
(17:36):
differences.
Speaker 3 (17:36):
Oh yeah, for sure.
Speaker 2 (17:38):
He talks about phrases like ojama shimasu.
You know which like literallytranslates to I'm disturbing you
, but, like Nick explains, it'snot really meant as an apology
for intruding.
Speaker 3 (17:47):
Right.
Speaker 2 (17:48):
It's more about acknowledging someone's space
and showing respect when you'reentering their home.
Speaker 3 (17:52):
It's a subtle but powerful way of expressing that
consideration for others.
That's such an important partof Japanese culture.
Speaker 2 (17:59):
Exactly.
And then there's ochikare samadesu, which means you are tired,
but it's actually used toacknowledge someone's hard work
and effort.
It's like saying I see you, Iappreciate your effort.
Speaker 3 (18:10):
I love how these little phrases seem so simple on
the surface, but they reveal somuch about a culture's values.
Speaker 2 (18:16):
It's really interesting how language can
reflect those deeper beliefs.
Speaker 3 (18:19):
It really is, and it's not just about saying the
right words either.
Nick also tells this funnystory about a time when he
accidentally caused mewaku whichis like trouble by
misinterpreting a social cue ata bar.
Speaker 2 (18:32):
Oh no.
Speaker 3 (18:33):
Yeah, it's a pretty lighthearted example, but it
just highlights how importantcultural sensitivity is and
understanding those kind ofunspoken rules of communication.
Speaker 2 (18:43):
It shows how even small missteps can have social
consequences, especially in aculture that values harmony and
respect so highly.
Speaker 3 (18:51):
Exactly.
But it's not just aboutavoiding mewaku, you know.
Nick also talks about how wecan actually contribute to the
ikigai of others.
Speaker 1 (18:58):
Right.
Speaker 3 (18:59):
He brings up the concept of urshigai, the joy of
teaching and mentoring.
Speaker 2 (19:03):
That's a really beautiful concept recognizing
that we all have somethingvaluable to offer, whether it's
our knowledge or skills or justbeing a good listener.
Speaker 3 (19:11):
Yeah, it's about you know, seeing the potential in
others and helping them todiscover their own Ikigai.
Speaker 2 (19:16):
And that brings us back to this theme of
interconnectedness that runsthrough Nick's whole book.
It's not just about our ownpersonal fulfillment.
It's about understanding thatwe're all connected and our
actions can have a positiveimpact on others.
Speaker 3 (19:30):
Absolutely so.
As we wrap up this deep diveinto Nick Kemp's Ikigai Kan, I
think it's clear that he givesus a much more nuanced and
culturally rich understanding ofikigai than those
oversimplified versions we oftenhear.
Speaker 2 (19:45):
He really challenges those common misconceptions and
encourages us to embrace a moreholistic perspective.
Speaker 3 (19:51):
Exactly.
It's not just about finding adream job, you know.
It's about cultivating a way oflife that's full of meaning,
purpose and connection.
Speaker 2 (19:59):
And finding what truly makes you feel alive and
sharing that joy with others.
Speaker 3 (20:03):
What resonated most with you during our discussion.
Speaker 2 (20:05):
I think I'm still really intrigued by how much
emphasis is placed on socialroles and responsibility in the
Japanese approach to ikigai.
Speaker 3 (20:13):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:14):
It's definitely a different way of thinking about
it than that individualisticfocus we see so much in Western
cultures.
Speaker 3 (20:20):
That's true.
It makes you wonder.
You know, how can we find thatbalance between those different
viewpoints?
Speaker 2 (20:25):
It's a great question to keep in mind as you continue
exploring Ikigai in your ownlife.
Speaker 3 (20:30):
And, as we bring this episode to a close, we really
hope that it's inspired you tolook beyond those simple
explanations of Ikigai.
Speaker 2 (20:37):
To dig deeper into the rich cultural and
philosophical roots of thisfascinating concept.
Speaker 3 (20:42):
And remember Ikigai is a journey, not a destination.
Speaker 2 (20:45):
So start small experiment.
Speaker 3 (20:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:47):
And be open to discovering all the many sources
of meaning and purpose that arewaiting for you out there.
Speaker 1 (20:53):
That's it An AI-generated summary of my book.
Ikigai Can Feel a Life WorthLiving.
What did you think?
Apart from a few quirky errorshere and there, it was very
impressive, and I think this isa sign of the rapid changes
we're about to experience withAI.
(21:14):
And perhaps AI will create newsources of Ikigai in our lives
and also offer us the timefreedom to enjoy our Ikigai
sources.
Now, if you'd like a copy of mybook, you'll find it on Amazon,
(21:35):
and so with that I'll saygoodbye, and on my next episode
I'll be talking to a real human.
Thanks for listening.
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