Discovering Ikigai: Making Life Worth Living After Losing Everything To War with Myroslava Marchenko
January 21, 2025 • 65 mins
How do you rebuild your life after losing everything?
Coping with loss is one of life’s greatest challenges, yet there are paths to recovery that can help us heal and move forward. One such path is discovering a sense of ikigai.
In this episode of the Ikigai Podcast, Nick speaks with Myroslava Marchenko on how individuals can rediscover purpose and resilience in the aftermath of profound loss.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
When people ask me what Ikigai is, I always say
that Ikigai is a mix of positiveemotions, so there is not just
one, because if there is one,you would name it like it is.
So if it is happiness, youwould say happiness.
(00:21):
If it is excitement, you wouldsay excitement.
But for me, Ikigai it is a mixof emotions.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
Find your Ikigai at ikigaitribecom.
My guest today on the Ikigaipodcast is Mira Slava Macienko
from Kharviv, Ukraine.
Mira is a travel PR consultantin Berlin, a journalist, a
(01:00):
social media coordinator, acontent marketer for tourism, a
travel agent, a copywriter, acoach for travel professionals
the list could go on and on.
Mira is also a certified Ikigaitribe coach, a dear friend, and
only just last November was aparticipant in my first Ikigai
retreat.
(01:21):
Mira, it's an honor to have youon the podcast today and it's
good to see you.
Thank you for joining me.
Speaker 1 (01:28):
Thank you, Nick.
Thank you for inviting.
It's an honor for me to be yourguest.
Speaker 2 (01:34):
Wonderful.
So where do we begin?
This will be a profound andspecial episode as we discuss
loss and ikigai, so we're goingto dive right in and I'll say
what you shared with me.
Your working life stopped bythe first of many missile
strikes on your city of Kharkivin Ukraine on the 24th of
(01:59):
November 2022.
Do you want to share thatexperience?
Speaker 1 (02:05):
First of all, yeah, thank you, nick, for asking that
, because that is a painfulexperience from one side and
that is a very meaningfulexperience and that is the first
(02:31):
step to Ikigai from the otherside.
So, yes, I got the news aboutthe war start when I was out of
Ukraine and I was about 15,000kilometers away when the first
bombs hit my city.
My city is very close toRussian border and it was the
first city which was bombed andthe very first day my family, my
(02:52):
husband and my son could seeRussian tanks just near our
house.
So the first third which I gotafter I realized that my family
was safe that moment.
The first third was oh my God,I lost everything.
Because working in travelbusiness, I understand that that
(03:17):
very minute I lost all myprojects.
Of course nobody would travel,nobody will think about that,
that is not that case and myhouse was exactly next to the
Russian border.
I realized that we could notstay there anymore.
My family had to move out and Iwas out of Ukraine.
(03:41):
So I lost connection to myfamily.
I could not come back home.
So that was unforgettable painI felt and I can remember it up
to this moment because I was notready for that stress at all.
Speaker 2 (03:58):
Thank you for sharing that.
It's just unimaginable.
I just I can't imagine losingeverything in the space of like
an hour, finding out andrealizing can't do my business
anymore.
Lost my home, lost my.
You know all those connections,the neighborhood, and I guess
(04:21):
it was with great relief thatyou knew your family was safe.
So how did you process that,did you?
Is it like fight or flight mode?
Were you very emotional?
Were you very?
Were you angry?
Were you thinking what do Ineed to do?
Speaker 1 (04:39):
You know.
So first of all, that was,there were several tragedies
inside me.
For one second and of coursethat was a professional tragedy
that was family, a long distancebetween me and family, and, as
I said before, I was not readyfor that.
And the first two weeks I wasin very deep stress, you know, I
(05:07):
was pulling my hair out, I wasdrinking, I was smoking.
I never did before that.
So I did some abnormal thingsjust trying to find a way how I
could kill that negativeemotions, the way how I could
(05:28):
kill that negative emotions,which were?
They were just, you know,appearing every second, new and
new of course, a fear ofuncertain future, not
understanding what is it goingto be.
I couldn't understand.
How long is it?
So is it safe for my family fora long time or it's only for
short time?
So I was moving around Europetrying to get closer to Ukraine,
(05:50):
because everybody thought thatmoment that it would be short
war.
So everybody said, oh, two days, three days, one week, two
weeks.
Everybody said, oh, two days,three days, one week, two weeks.
So then two weeks were over andthe war, as we see now it's a
(06:11):
third year.
So that moment I moved closerto Ukrainian border.
But my family said to me, don'tcome back.
So just, I live in the farthestend of my country, so I had to
cross the forest end of mycountry, so I had to cross the
country to reach my home.
And my family said, no, that isvery dangerous.
(06:32):
And I happened in Germany.
So that was an invitation frommy lady friend just to come to
her house in a very deep, deepvillage of Germany.
So one day, living in a bigcity in Ukraine, having houses,
(06:55):
apartments, I don't know, cars,businesses, travelings and so on
, I happened in German villagebut that was safe.
Speaker 2 (07:04):
Hard to process.
So you, you're right, you hadthis great life, uh, successful
business, you were traveling,you were doing what you loved,
you had your family, and then,in one day, it's all gone, it's
all lost and you've.
You happen to be in germany.
So you told me you, youcouldn't see your family for
seven months, and I can'timagine not seeing my partner or
(07:28):
my son for seven months.
So that's a long time.
Do you want to touch on that?
Speaker 1 (07:34):
That was really for me also not very so.
For me that was a painfulexperience, first of all because
I was in Germany and theydidn't have the proper documents
to leave that country and I hadto wait for those documents.
And I had only, of course I hadvideo, but sometimes I even
(07:57):
couldn't have video callsbecause my family was in a
distant village in the forestand the internet was not always
possible there.
So that was, like you know.
Now I could say that that wasIkigai retreat.
So I had time to slow down, tolook, like you know, from the
(08:20):
distance at my life and toanalyze what was really valuable
, what was really not veryvaluable at all, because, you
know, I was looking at my hugehouse in Ukraine and I realized
that I cannot have it anymore.
(08:41):
I looked at my apartment, at mycars, and they realized that
that moment they meant nothing.
So the only important thing wasmy family life.
So, yes, seven months I waswithout my family and then I had
(09:02):
the chance to get new documentsand move to Ukraine.
Not move to Ukraine, visitUkraine.
I could visit Ukraine.
Speaker 2 (09:13):
Oh, you could visit, yeah, yeah.
So while this was all going on,you also discovered your father
had cancer.
Speaker 1 (09:22):
That was like you know, that was like a double hit
.
So I had just find the way howI could manage.
First stress, Then I got thesecond stress.
So from one side that was astress.
From the second side that wasthe possibility for all my
(09:45):
family to move to Germany.
But before moving to Germany,so before I could go to Germany,
to Ukraine, from Germany, Imanaged to fix my life in
Germany.
So for those six months withoutany German, without knowing any
(10:05):
up to this moment I have noidea about German language, I
speak only English.
But for those six months Imanaged to find a job here in
Germany, I managed to rent anapartment that time and I
organized the space where Icould take my family, wow.
(10:26):
And so then we discovered thatfather got cancer and that was
there.
Unfortunately, that was thechance for all my family to move
out of Ukraine, because we gotthat permission to leave the
country.
Speaker 2 (10:44):
I see.
So these remind me of yourqualities.
You're very resilient, you'revery proactive, and when you
have a problem, you seem toapproach it logically and think
what can I do?
So that's what I love about youyou have this incredible energy
.
You're very resilient, you'revery positive.
But what was it like going backto Ukraine, knowing everything
(11:12):
had changed and it was a warzone, your country had been
invaded and you couldn't go backto your home.
You had to go back to your hometo get everyone out.
What was that like?
Speaker 1 (11:24):
So first of all, then I came there for a month, every
single day, and my city wasbombed.
That was horrible.
I couldn't stay in my apartmentbecause I was in shock.
You know, for me that was new,new impressions, I would say.
You know, for me that was new,new impressions, I would say,
(11:44):
and the new feelings of thathorror.
Then you are in the house andthe house is shaking.
You know, every time then thebomb is somewhere in the city.
I couldn't believe that it wasin 21st century, in the middle
(12:05):
of Europe, and that was very, avery stressful experience.
But I had to make some papersfor my father, I had to make
some papers for my husband, sowe had to spend that month there
.
But we were leaving Ukraine bytwo cars and we were crossing
the whole country and that wasvery.
(12:29):
I remember that up to thismoment.
Then we were driving across thecountry, about 1,200 kilometers
, and you were driving justamong broken houses, damaged
cities, so tanks, cars I couldsee that before only in movies,
you know.
And then I was driving and sawthat on my own.
(12:52):
I realized that that was thetotal end of my previous life.
That's it.
Speaker 2 (13:03):
What a must be very shocking and profound
realisation.
Everything's changed, home isgone, seems like forever, it
will never be the same and youhad to start this new life in
Germany.
So I imagine it was quite hardadjusting to this new life in
(13:27):
Germany.
Do you want to touch on that?
Speaker 1 (13:31):
Yeah, thank you for that question, because up to
this moment I am not integratedin this country society.
So, first of all, I do notspeak german and I have inside
protest to learn that language.
I don't know why, but that isjust.
I just do not, like I say, I donot make myself that.
(13:54):
So I tried several times, Istopped it.
But I have really very valuableexperience of communicating
people here, of communicationwith people, yes, and I got the
first experience to be employedhere.
I was never employed before andnow I am employed and I could
(14:20):
not say that I love that.
But Ikigai helps me in thiscase.
I will tell you later how.
And so Germany gave uspossibility to live in a safe
country, germany gave mepossibility to make money,
germany gave me possibility torelax and think a bit about more
(14:45):
or less clear future, andGermany gave me possibility to
buy house here.
So now we are having our ownhouse here, we are having our
garden, we are having school forour child and we are having
more or less, let's say, two orthree steps for future.
(15:09):
Not many years, because I'm notintegrated in Germany, but two
or three steps for future wehave.
Speaker 2 (15:18):
Yeah, I mean, look, I've met you, we spent a week
together and you have thisincredible positivity, so you
seem to handle things very welland I wouldn't have known all of
this loss and tragedy if Ihadn't known your background.
(15:38):
So, before we talk about Ikigai, let's talk a little bit more
about loss, because you said youhad this realization all these
material things your home youknow not your home the house,
the physical house, the cars,all these things you realized
didn't really matter, but youhave lost significant things.
(15:59):
Obviously you know yourbusiness, this community, and
you know, imagine, a lot offriends.
So to, yeah, to lose so much Ithink you touched on this before
you realized what matters toyou.
Speaker 1 (16:18):
I want to say that the most important here that I
lost and I cannot get back,important here that I lost and I
cannot get back, that iscommunity, which is a bus show I
know now that word and that isFrance.
I do not have anybody nowoffline.
(16:40):
I do not have.
That is the the biggestchallenge for me.
That is the biggest my soulpain now because I do not have
anybody offline.
I have a lot online we willspeak about that later but I do
not have anybody so and Irealized that and just you know
(17:06):
anybody so, and I realized that,and just you know, sometime not
sure not long time ago, I saidto my husband, who is the only
person offline, husband and son.
And I say that now I understandI would never have chance to
meet all my community, to meetall my lady friends, to meet all
(17:29):
my community, to meet all mylady friends, to invite them to
our house, to our yard, to have,just you know, yoga meetings
one morning.
I would never have that andthat was a very painful thought
in my mind.
And probably now it is thebiggest challenge to make as
many offline meetings somewhereout of Germany, let's say as
(17:53):
many as I can.
So I'm trying to find thepossibility to go somewhere for
two days, for three days, if Iknow that my people can be
somewhere around.
And I am now trying to do mybest and invite people to my
house.
(18:13):
So we have a big house, we havea big yard and I create
different events here and invitemy lady friends.
So I just, you know, I said,use them with different ideas.
I invite them for the concerts,I invite them for my birthday,
I invite them.
So I just say, okay, I willcreate the reason to come.
(18:35):
Sometimes I even buy tickets tothem, you know, and uh, because
I need that.
And so that is my uh, that ismy priority number one now to
meet as many people offline as Ican.
Speaker 2 (18:52):
Yes, I can relate to that.
As you know, my business islargely online.
It's all about Ikigai.
I spend a lot of time in thisroom and I'm definitely like you
.
I'm a people person and makingnew friends, new connections, is
really important, but it's somuch better when it's in person
(19:16):
and I would say that's you knowone of my Ikigai and I think
it's one of yours.
So let's touch on Ikigai andthe impact it's had on your life
.
How would you define Ikigai?
What does it mean to you.
Speaker 1 (19:30):
I love that question, so thank you.
First of all, for me, whenpeople ask me what Ikigai is, I
always say that Ikigai is a mixof positive emotions.
So there is not just one,because if there is one, you
(19:51):
would name it like it is.
So if it is happiness, youwould say happiness.
If it is excitement, you wouldsay excitement.
But for me Ikigai it is a mixof emotions.
Me, ikigai it is a mix ofemotions and I made for myself a
(20:12):
list of 40 emotions, becausethere are hundreds of them.
But I made a list of 40emotions and I make, uh, when I
feel a mix of those emotions, Itake a piece of paper and I have
it just next to me.
I could show you, of course.
So I take a piece of paper,write it down, write what gave
(20:34):
me that mix of emotions, and putit in my Ikigai bank.
So that is very helpful.
Every time then you feel thatyour mental state is going down,
that you are not so happy, youare not so excited, you are not
so energetic, and so on, just goto your ikigai bank, take out
(20:57):
one piece piece of paper and doit, love it, so that.
So that is very important tomake a list of sources of your
ikigai, which is mix of emotions, and then know them and anytime
you can use it to upgrade yourmental state.
Speaker 2 (21:21):
I love it.
Ikigai is something you feeland, and you're right, it is a
range of emotions.
It can be excitement, it can behappiness, it can be.
Speaker 1 (21:31):
Proudness.
Speaker 2 (21:33):
Calmness, yeah, reflective calmness.
It can be this intimacy youshare with other people.
So I love your approach becauseyou're almost asking, like,
what emotions, what positiveemotions, do you want to feel,
which we would call Ikigai Kan,and you then identify what
(21:55):
brings you those emotions andthey're your sources, and that's
I mean we're really referencingthe work of Mikko Kamiya.
She identified Ikigai sourcesand then ikigai card.
So it is ultimately somethingyou feel and, as you pointed out
, it's not one emotion and it'scertainly not limited to
(22:16):
happiness.
It can be this array ofemotions and you also point out,
it's ultimately something inyou that you uncover or, I guess
, release.
Speaker 1 (22:31):
Yes, that is very important, that it is 100%, that
Ikigai is in you, so everybodyhas it.
So the only what everybody cando is uncover.
So you shouldn't go outsomewhere and look around.
(22:52):
So that is not in the field,it's not in your garden, that is
inside you and the only thingyou can do is uncover your
ikigai and if, if you do that,there is a way in reality.
So there is not one day, thereis not one exercise.
There is a way of researchingyourself.
There is question to yourselfevery single day.
(23:16):
So there is communication toyourself.
There is a deep adventureinside, but that is important to
understand.
That is inside, deep adventureinside, but that is important to
understand.
That is inside, not outside,not around you.
Speaker 2 (23:32):
So you've gone through a very unique experience
, a very tragic experience ofbasically losing everything.
So we could say you lost allyour ikigai, almost all your
ikigai.
We could say you lost all yourIkigai or almost all your Ikigai
, and then you had to move andreorganize your life and then, I
guess, once all that settled,you moved your family to Germany
(23:55):
.
You had to adjust to this newlife and then, I guess you know,
find or uncover new Ikigaiafter you'd lost everything.
And Kami Amiko writes aboutthis.
She writes about the loss ofikigais almost like a collapse
of your value systems.
So I guess my question is howdo you find or uncover ikigai
(24:20):
again when you've losteverything?
Speaker 1 (24:23):
First of all, I realized that there is the start
from the scratch, you know, andit will depend only on you and
what you choose.
So anybody can choose to suffer, feel unhappy, I don't know.
(24:45):
So smoke cigarettes and drinkwine, or you can choose
adventure, research and uncoversomething inside you, because
then you lose everything outside, you will never lose yourself.
So you always have yourself,yes, and then you have yourself.
(25:08):
You understand that, oh my God.
So I have treasure.
That is here.
Yes, I'm here, thanks God.
Yes, I'm here, thanks God, I'mnot bombed.
And so that was the moment thatI lost everything outside.
I said, oh my God, thanks, Ihave my brain, I have my soul, I
(25:29):
have my body, what I can dowith all of that stuff, what I
can do with all of that stuff?
And that was the moment when Istarted to look inside and I
started searching for somethingvaluable inside.
You know, leaving our endlessto-do lists very often forget
(25:50):
about our inside world.
And that was the moment when Irealized so nothing is around.
Only you is your own value.
And Ikigai, searching forIkigai.
That way, that process ofsearching for Ikigai source it
(26:14):
became a long trip, to myself aswell, and I took Ikigai as a
criteria of my present life.
Now I always ask myself severalquestions.
When I have to make decision,when I have to make choice, when
I have to make decision, when Ihave to make choice, when I
(26:36):
have to do something, I alwaysask myself will it be source of
my ikigai?
Will it change my life?
Will I feel ikigai after that?
And I understand that life istoo short not to live ikigai.
So, and if I can refuse ofdoing something, or if I can
(27:00):
avoid doing something, if I canmake a choice and have an ikigai
after that, I will do that.
So in most cases, people couldsay that it sounds selfish.
I would say it sounds ikigai,because that is not living for
(27:22):
yourself, that is living yourlife.
And if you are happy in yourlife, if you are excited about
your life, if you are proud ofyour life, everybody will be
happy around you as well.
So Ikigai and I say it to manypeople around me Ikigai is a
(27:43):
great criteria and it can makeyour life easier.
You know, because you have likea basis and you can ask
yourself, okay, how to make thischoice?
I can do that easily.
If it is my ikigai, I will dothat.
If it is not my ikigai, I willnever do that.
That's it.
(28:04):
Life is too short.
Speaker 2 (28:07):
Yeah, that's a really valuable insight.
It gives you criteria to makedecisions that really support
your life and are based on yourvalues.
So I think Ikigai is all aboutliving authentically to your
values and when you do that,yeah, you're like a better
person to be around becauseyou're being authentic, you're
(28:28):
being true to who you want to be.
But, interestingly, even someIkigai sources, like you
mentioned, could be drinking orsmoking, and they're more like
coping mechanisms.
So maybe they're a short-termsolution, but they're not really
healthy ikigai solutions.
(28:50):
But I guess what we're talkingabout is tragedy.
Trauma can push you tocontemplate.
Yeah, what really matters to me, what is my higai?
And you've gone through thatand I think from that, one
(29:11):
quality I'm assuming you'vealways had is resilience.
So you have this incredibleresilience and you can quickly
move on, make decisions.
But it sounds like resiliencestrengthens this belief in
Ikigai and it helps youunderstand what are your Ikigai
(29:32):
sources.
So do you want to touch onresilience?
Speaker 1 (29:37):
That is, yes, that is very, very, very actual topic
to discuss, because that isexactly what I gained when I
started to study Ikigai Notbefore, you know, because I
could say that I was pretty weakand I mean, I was not focused,
(30:04):
I couldn't understand where tofocus, where to find their
energy, how to reduce my stress,and so on so far, but then I
just started subconsciously, notconsciously, that time, yes, I
started to look inside and Istarted to understand that I am
responsible for my life and atthe moment you make that
(30:29):
decision, you became resilient.
So, because you understand thatnobody around cannot make your
life better and nobody aroundcan make your life worse, only
you make a decision.
What is your life look like now?
(30:50):
And at the moment you arestrong enough to make that
decision.
You know it's about will, it'sabout inside will.
So people are very weak in mostcases and they do not have will
to make that decision.
I was lucky, I could say, tohave that will.
(31:10):
So I didn't train that.
Yes, I was just lucky that Ihad that will.
So that was, I was responsiblefor my life and I found
condition, internal sources ofmy mental state, which I liked.
That moment, yes, and I couldsay that I found my ikigai
(31:32):
sources inside and I based on it.
But first was decision to beresponsible for your life and I
would say, in any stresssituation.
So the first, of course you canmake yourself a bit bold, you
can make yourself a bit drunkand so on, that's okay.
(31:54):
You can make yourself a bitdrunk and so on, that's okay.
But after that you just have tohave a fair talk to yourself.
I'm ready to be responsible forthat in any situation, even in
war.
So when you cannot control whatis going around, but you cannot
(32:21):
control how you react at that,and then your icky guy way
starts.
So you make the decision and goinside to search for sources
what can change your mentalstate and what can help you to
be stronger.
Speaker 2 (32:29):
Very powerful.
I think Viktor Frankl wrote onthis and he described it as the
last human freedom.
Like you, can lose everything.
All these horrible things canbe done to you, but whatever you
think and what choices you make, regardless of circumstance, is
your last human freedom, andit's very powerful.
(32:51):
You can always choose how tothink and how to react, and
maybe we don't do that enoughtoday.
We have so much influence nowwe have.
Most of us listening to thispodcast would have a pretty good
life, and we have probably Idon't know first world problems
(33:14):
or minor problems, but you'vegone through something.
You know life changing tragicthings will never be the same,
but it sounds like it's almostturned you into this stronger
new person and you see lifedifferently.
Is that the case?
Do you see life verydifferently now?
Speaker 1 (33:35):
Absolutely yes.
First of all, I like Frankl'sidea that if you set a kind of
future for your brain, you willsurvive.
And in this case he wasspeaking about goal for future
and he was thinking, for example, about writing a book about his
(33:57):
sufferings, and that kept himalive.
So the same I I'm doing now, Icould say, but I'm doing now
because of ikigai bright future,need you know.
And uh, I made it like apractice for me and it works,
(34:18):
because I had a very painful,stressful situation with my when
I realized that my father wasdying here in Germany and I
realized that my mental statewas very unstable.
But that moment I have already.
I had already knew about ikigai.
(34:38):
So I went out to the balcony,uh, took my telephone and you
know, at the moment then myfather was dying.
I was in a terrible mental state.
I took my telephone,remembering about that icky guy
need, about bright future, and Ijust started to search for a
(35:01):
new car for myself.
From one side, it's nonsense.
From the other side, my brainchanged focus and I changed my
mental state.
That moment I had no plans tobuy the car or something like
that.
You know, I didn't need it thatmoment, but I just gave my
(35:23):
brain a different idea to thinkabout nice event in the future
which I will arrange for myself.
It changed state very, very,very fast and I use this
practice very often.
When I see that now, in themoment, I'm going to get stress,
(35:44):
I just try to cheat my brainand show it something nice in
the future.
I love it.
Speaker 2 (35:56):
That's awesome.
So that's a very that's a muchbetter yeah, far better to
switch your focus and think,okay, what can I look forward to
?
You're creating it yourself.
You're saying, well, I'm goingto think about buying a car in
the future, I might think aboutbuying a Porsche now.
So rather than thinking, oh,I'm stressed, I'll have a drink,
(36:18):
I'll have a smoke, I'll yeah.
So this ability to switch focusand decide I want this for my
future a much healthier way tohandle stress than a coping
mechanism.
This is like a really proactiveway to handle stress and ties
(36:38):
back to resilience and really isasking well, everything's crap.
At the moment, I feel crap, butwhat do I want to think about,
what do I want to focus on?
And you really live that andI've seen that and I mean I have
many people interesting peoplecome into my life for Ikigai,
but you are definitely one ofthe most unique and inspiring
(37:03):
and you've really embracedIkigai, all the teachings, and
you now live a life of Ikigai.
So how has Ikigai changed yourlife?
Speaker 1 (37:15):
First of all, thank you.
No, I want to thank universefor you in my Ikigai life,
because you were the first onewho really gave me that first
touch to Ikigai and my idea wasto search for Ikigai knowledge,
(37:38):
not to help myself.
My idea was to help thousandsof women, ukrainian women, who
are out of Ukraine.
Now, about Ikigai, I started todevelop different ways, how I
(37:58):
could use that in my life andhow it could help for lives of
Ukrainian women.
Now I am one of the leaders ofIkigai Club and up to this
moment, we have about 73ukrainian ladies who are in that
(38:21):
ikigai club and that is our bigachievement here.
So that is first.
Second.
I understand that I show peoplethat what they can find, then
they lose everything.
It is the way to help not onlythose women, but it's a way to
(38:44):
help my country as well.
That is really very powerful,because they lost everything as
well.
They are out of their countriesand they now selling them that
idea of Ikigai.
In reality, I am selling themtheir future life possibilities
(39:06):
to be with yourself, to bepowerful, to have that mental
state that you can do everythingin any place on the planet.
So I think that is my, it's akind of my Ikigai mission.
Speaker 2 (39:21):
It's inspiring.
I'm really astounded that thisone word, which I mean is a
universal concept.
We all want to have ameaningful, fulfilling life.
But, yeah, the Japaneselanguage seems to articulate,
articulates concepts into oneword and it's something.
(39:45):
There's something veryappealing.
And there's also this culturallens, this Japanese lens on what
makes life worth living, whichis different to other cultures.
And here you are, you'reinspiring, you're giving all
these women hope and you createdit all, this community.
Obviously, it's needed with somany women going through loss,
(40:10):
many of who can't see theirpartners because they're
husbands or fathers, maybe evensons, in Ukraine fighting.
And it's also creatingcommunity, which we both love,
and that idea of ibasho.
So, yeah, it's very inspiringfor me to see you take Ikigai
(40:32):
and use it to inspire otherpeople who are going through so
much loss, and you've eventurned Ikigai into a verb with
this phrase Ikigai, your life,which I love.
So do you want to touch on that?
Speaker 1 (40:50):
Yes, first of all, I created two things about Ikigai
now.
Yes, yes, first of all, Icreated two things about Ikigai
now.
Yes, the first I created that,as I say, transformational tool
which is Ikigai life plan, and Icreated that to show women that
they can plan Ikigai sources intheir life, so they do not have
(41:16):
to plan only to-do lists, butthey have to plan ikigai in
their life, so they have to planevents, they have to plan
meaningful meetings and so on,so something which will give
them that great feeling and thatgreat mental state, that mix of
emotions.
(41:36):
Yes, I created that sloganIkigai your life, where Ikigai
is a verb, and I am going toproduce this year, I'm going to
produce a sweet shorts for girlsin my club and I think that
this year, everybody in my clubwill wear Ikigai your life.
(42:00):
So everybody will Ikigai theirlife, because that is really
very important to leave emotionsbut not only to do lists.
Speaker 2 (42:12):
I love it when people turn nouns into verbs and I
mean it really articulates theproactive nature of Ikigai.
If you want Ikigai, you have todo something, you have to set
plans, you have to meet people,you have to engage in activities
that are meaningful,challenging, and Ikigai is also
(42:33):
very reflective, because youneed to understand yourself,
your values.
But once you understand that,then you've got to do something.
And I believe Ikigai isstrongly felt when there is some
sort of challenge or obstacleyou have to overcome, usually in
a positive context.
So starting your own communityor we'll talk about this later,
(42:57):
but you know me, deciding to domy first retreat, all these
planning challenges, impostersyndrome, all these things you
have to overcome.
But once you do overcome thosechallenges and you create
community, the Ikigai is feltmore intensely.
So, yeah, I love this idea ofikigai-ing your life.
(43:20):
I might start using it, so I'llgive you credit.
Speaker 1 (43:26):
But you know what is really important here?
Japanese are lucky to live toikigai their life because,
because they are japanese, yes,but we it's like a new skill we
have to get.
So that's why, for us, if youwant to have ikigai in your life
(43:46):
, you have to ikigai your life,because that is a skill you have
to gain.
And there is a skill toidentify Ikigai because you have
already had it, yes, so youhave to uncover it.
And I always say there is askill, and I think that in some
(44:06):
years we will discuss here, likeyou know, like a useful habit
you should get, you should gainthis.
That is Ikigai habit.
And so there is ikigai habitand so that is and I think I
love the phrase that ikigai isthe best expert japan can make.
I like this phrase, yes and um,that is very, that is very true
(44:30):
.
So that's why, for japanese,it's's okay, they live that,
they know what is it.
But for us we have to ikigai.
Yes, that is a proactiveapproach.
Speaker 2 (44:42):
Yeah, even Ken Moggi said ikigai is perhaps the best
export of Japan.
Japan has all these amazingcultures, cultural aspects,
products and whatnot.
But perhaps ikigai this wordthat articulates perhaps a
different way to think aboutlife, how to make life
meaningful is unique and canchange lives.
(45:05):
Then there's the irony.
I guess in Japan, you know,it's just a normal word.
For them it's not somethingthey really think about or talk
about that much.
It's so ingrained in their lifethat among my friends, the ones
who don't even think about itusually live a life of ikigai
(45:26):
because they don't need to thinkabout their ikigai, because
they know what it is.
Yeah, so that's almost an ironyof ikigai is like, when you know
you're Ikigai, you're justliving it.
Obviously our perspectives aredifferent because we're sharing
the concept.
We talk about it a lot.
So it goes back to this idea offeeling you know you're living
(45:48):
with Ikigai when you feelmultiple positive emotions every
day from different sources,from people, from challenges,
from work, from your hobbies.
The list could go on and on,but I think there would be
people listening to this podcastwho might think, oh, I'm
(46:09):
struggling with a lack of ikigai.
So what is your advice, mira,for people listening to this
episode and they're thinking, oh, I don't have ikigai so you
know, I, just as I said before,that is a question of making
decision and making choice.
Speaker 1 (46:28):
But we have to understand one very simple thing
we will never get anything goodin life if we do not feel good.
But you know, that is the mostimportant, that is the mental
state.
Even money, that is areflection of your interaction
(46:50):
with the universe.
If you are not happy, if youare not satisfied, if you are
not grateful, if you are in abad mood, world will give you
back the same.
So that's why, the first andthe most important make a
decision to live this happy life.
So that should be Ikigai life.
(47:10):
Yes, you should make a decisionto Ikigai your life.
So that is first.
Second, you remember the ideathat you have already had ikigai
inside.
So it means you have thattreasure, you're happy, you're
lucky.
So go inside and try to find it.
Ask yourself questions, makeikigai bank, write down your
(47:35):
answers and look what makes youfeel those emotions, yes, mix of
emotions.
Just study yourself, takeresponsibility and do not look
at circumstances, because notcircumstances make your life,
but you can make your life andIkigai it's a lifestyle.
(47:58):
So there is not one dayexercise If you make a decision
to live that style.
Just follow it.
Start from the small, like KenMohe said as well yes, start
from the small.
Start, do something first.
What can make you happy,excited and so on?
(48:20):
So start with the small andwrite down, make your Ikigai
bank.
Think about that and understandthat everything is inside, not
outside.
And I always say to my, as soonas I get something negative
inside, not outside, and Ialways say to my, as soon as I
get something negative inside,bad mood or something like that,
(48:41):
I always remember the worldwill give me back the same.
I do not want that.
So I go and change the same.
At the moment that I realizedthat I lost everything and I
asked my question okay, what doyou want to get back?
(49:01):
Yes, what do you want to get?
You have now just a sheet ofpaper, yes, and so you can draw
everything you want there.
So what do you want to draw?
Take bright colors.
So make your life Ikigai yourlife.
That's it.
Speaker 2 (49:19):
I love it.
Yeah, I love what I learnedfrom my students, and my
students often have thisdifferent perspective or they
describe Ikigai in differentways, and these words often come
up or terms come up like ikigaidecisions, and that's something
I learned not learned, but oneof my coaches came up with like,
(49:42):
oh, I'm teaching my clientsikigai decisions before they
make financial decisions.
Shout out to Chris yeah, andthis idea of an ikigai life plan
from you, or this idea to justikigai your life and to focus
whatever you focus on is whatyou're going to get back.
So if you yeah, if you focus onall the negatives, that's what
(50:04):
you're going to get, but if youfocus on life affirming aspects
of your life and you start smalland be proactive about how
you're going to generate orcreate that in your life, then
your life will change and you'llfeel better.
So we really are responsiblefor how we feel and we can
(50:24):
always start small, as Ken Moggyprescribes.
So I love it.
So this leads us to.
So I love it.
So this leads us to reminiscingabout the time we met in person
, which wasn't too long ago wemet last November and it was
(50:45):
very special.
I remember waiting for yououtside Tokyo train station
looking at my watch, trying tofind you and Lydia.
And then, yeah, you guys showedup, you were the first to show
up and since that moment, orfrom that moment, we had this
incredible eight days together.
(51:06):
So what did you enjoy about theretreat?
What did you learn?
Speaker 1 (51:13):
That was.
I could say that after thismoment that was the best journey
in my life.
I traveled a lot, I visited alot of countries more than 50,
but that was the best journey ofmy life, not because of people
I met and because of idea ofretreat itself.
(51:35):
And the main idea and you knowwhat I really loved that when I
send a postcard from oneJapanese town to me in Germany.
So I wrote the postcard tomyself and I wrote there my
(51:57):
insights about trip.
So when I came Cologne I evendidn't remember what was in my
postcard.
But today I read it one moretime and there were very
important thoughts about thattrip.
So, first of all, that was aperfect mix of people and you
(52:30):
created the most important ideanot to look around just I mean
sites or places or houses, butto feel how they live, to feel
people, to meet people, tounderstand the value.
You showed me people who areliving in their Ikigai and I
(52:53):
admired them.
So that was amazing experience.
When I looked at peopleunderstand oh my gosh.
So he was dying in digor afterhis family for 400 years in the
21st century then everything canbe done with machines, but he
was so excited with his job andthat was very valuable.
(53:18):
I felt a different taste oflife.
So your japan I would say yourjapan, because I would see it
different if I go there withother experience yes, so, but
your Japan showed me people howpeople are living in their
(53:40):
Ikigai, how they feel thatmental state, how they feel what
is it?
How they feel their Ikigai?
So that was like a trip insidejapanese.
So that was, that was the themost valuable experience trip
inside japanese people.
(54:01):
I would never do it myself,despite the fact that I am
travel professional.
I can craft any trip.
I would never do that.
I cannot.
Speaker 2 (54:10):
So that was very valuable it was very valuable
and that's what I wanted tocreate.
I mean, we had a great groupdynamic in our own group, but
for me it is about theconnections you make with
Japanese and the people.
I'm very lucky I seem to stumbleupon and meet very special
people and yeah even yourexample of Watanabe-san, the
(54:33):
Indigo Dying Craftsman, 16thgeneration family business for
400 years, and yet he was sohumble, friendly and we had this
wonderful day where we, youknow, made our own shores and
this history passed from 15generations down to him and he's
(54:58):
got his own problems.
You know, he doesn't have anydirect children and he's
thinking about how can he passon this dying crafts, yeah, this
dying crafts.
So that's another era of Japanthat I worry about.
Like, oh, there are all thesecrafts that are dying.
So to be able to bring you guysand have you experience, that
(55:18):
was special.
So it's always tied to people.
I think the Ikigai, almostevery Ikigai experience, either
directly or indirectly, is tiedto people and I agree it was a
very different experience ofJapan and maybe hard to create,
unless I guess I'm lucky I'vegot friends, of course, the
(55:42):
amazing Shinji, who is a dearfriend and such a fun guy.
So, yeah, you need someone tohelp you locally and I was very
lucky that I had shinji, whoI've known for 20 years, to help
.
Speaker 1 (55:57):
So uh chinji is a hero of my uh video, uh in
instagram today, and I uh Iinterviewed him and that was one
of the Japanese which I reallyloved how he described Ikigai,
(56:18):
and I want to say that you andShinji did a great job choosing
the locations.
Yeah, that was one more plus tothat retreat that I really
loved all locations I visited.
(56:39):
I loved all places we stayed.
I loved myself in this trip.
I had a perfect mood, alwaysgood mood, fantastic food,
fantastic places for dinner andlunch and so on.
(57:00):
So every detail was craftedespecially for me and you did a
great job because we hadvegetarians, people who didn't
eat meat, people who ate meat,people who didn't drink, people
who drank.
So in reality, you had to do somany different details, but I
(57:22):
would recommend you never dothat after yes, never do it in
the future.
Just say we have this food,because otherwise you can go
crazy every time asking peopleoh my God, no food, no meat, no
fish, no nothing, and that isreally very difficult to
organize.
(57:43):
So you did a perfect job hereas well.
Then, monastery it wasincredible experience and Zen
meditation with that.
I just yesterday watched thatvideo with that motivational
stick.
That is my favorite.
I love it.
That is every single moment Ican remember in my mind and I'm
(58:13):
happy to you know, know, like toreplay it over and over again
because it gives me ikigai.
So that is a source of ikigai.
Speaker 2 (58:23):
I love it yeah, it was, for me too it's.
I mean, it was a challenge, butit was a worthy challenge.
It was a worthwhile challengeand, you're right, me and Shinji
were thinking what are we goingto do?
Like, we've got a strictvegetarian, we have two halau
eaters, we have a pescatarian,and then we have people who can
eat meat.
And my friend Shinji's like, oh, this is like tragedy that they
(58:46):
can't have shabu-shabu, theycan't have yakiniku, they can't
even eat sushi, like all thesefoods that are so delicious.
And then he got to work and hewas so diligent and, as you know
, I mean I went to Japan just tomeet all these people and plan
and greet people, because Ithought this is not a holiday,
(59:06):
this is a study trip.
This needs to be very special.
And then again, for the people,yeah, we got special access to
that Buddhist temple and thatexperience of zazen seated
meditation with theencouragement stick.
You know the stick to whack youto focus, and that was
(59:29):
interesting, that interplay ofasking to be in a hit and
obviously it's safe and it'sdone to encourage you.
So even for me, all of this waslike new.
Most of it was new to me and Iwas very lucky to have these
connections and I'll be forevergrateful to Shinji and all the
work he put in.
(59:49):
It's strengthened ourfriendship and this is something
we're going to do, so that'ssomething I'll do again,
hopefully this year, in 2025.
Ikigai opens up your future.
It makes you realize I can dothis, I can do that, I can bring
people together.
So what does your future holdfor you, mira, for 2025?
(01:00:15):
What are your Ikigai plans?
Speaker 1 (01:00:18):
So, first of all, I am an Ikigai ambassador in this
part of the planet.
I named it myself and I amgoing to set this trend which is
Ikigai lifestyle, and I'm doingthat now.
So ikigai, your life, that isthe motto I will promote this
(01:00:42):
year and I will promote thatliving ikigai, that is something
you must experience, becauselife is too short, and I'm going
to do several offline speechesand the the first one is in
january 2025, so next week Iwill go to berlin to speak and I
(01:01:10):
am going to write the book aswell.
Speaker 2 (01:01:15):
Nice.
Speaker 1 (01:01:16):
And I am going to, together with Lydia, we are
going to describe Japaneseconcepts, different Japanese
concepts which can help you tomove forward, to uncover your
(01:01:36):
ikigai love it and there is.
There is, of course, because ofyou.
So because you made fantasticikigai retreat journal, where
you showed us different conceptsand we it was like there the
(01:02:02):
beginning of that idea, andflying back from japan in the
airplane, we started to to dropideas and up to this moment, we
have a picture what we want todo.
So I think we are going tofinish this year as well.
Thank you, nick.
Speaker 2 (01:02:22):
Awesome.
Speaker 1 (01:02:23):
Obrigado.
Speaker 2 (01:02:25):
Koto da koso.
So, yeah, it's so wonderful forme to hear this and you are an
ambassador and I'll alwayssupport you and I look forward
to us meeting again in personand collaborating on some Ikigai
projects with Lydia, yourwonderful friend Lydia, who's
(01:02:45):
also part of Ikigai tribe, andit was so funny when you told me
Lydia you know she's elegantand graceful, and that you're at
the supermarket and thecheckout lady thought Lydia was
Japanese, Just based on her body, language and behavior.
So we have all these beautifulmemories.
Speaker 1 (01:03:08):
You know I had several comments from people
that we look like Japanese.
They say, wow, you are maybebecause of black hair, I don't
know.
But they say you look likeJapanese.
And so from one side that is akind of compliment.
You know, I take it.
I say okay, probably in thepast life it was.
Speaker 2 (01:03:32):
Maybe.
So, before we end, where canpeople find you?
I know you and Lydia are veryactive on Instagram, so we'll
link to your Instagram accounts.
Speaker 1 (01:03:46):
Absolutely.
Yes, my Instagram account isikigaimiroslavomarchenko, so
that is very easy.
Ikigai, miroslava Marchenko, sothat is very easy.
And yes, I am very active and Iam promoting ideas of Ikigai in
all my contact pieces, so I'mtrying to show what the Ikigai
(01:04:06):
is, what you can do, whatpractices can help you to
uncover it, and so on.
Speaker 2 (01:04:12):
Awesome, it's been a pleasure.
It was so wonderful to meet youlast November and you're a very
special friend, you and Lydia,and I can't wait to see you this
year.
So let's make it an Ikigai goalto catch up in person again,
maybe here there or maybe inJapan again.
Speaker 1 (01:04:33):
Thank you, nick, for invitation.
Yes, I definitely have Japan inmy list in my Ikigai life plan.
In my Ikigai life plan, that isyes, and not because of Japan,
but because of people andbecause of Ikigai.
So thank you for inviting me.
That was very special interview.
Speaker 2 (01:04:55):
My pleasure.
Bye for now.
Speaker 1 (01:04:58):
Bye.
When people ask me what Ikigai is, I always say
that Ikigai is a mix of positiveemotions, so there is not just
one, because if there is one,you would name it like it is.
So if it is happiness, youwould say happiness.
(00:21):
If it is excitement, you wouldsay excitement.
But for me, Ikigai it is a mixof emotions.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
Find your Ikigai at ikigaitribecom.
My guest today on the Ikigaipodcast is Mira Slava Macienko
from Kharviv, Ukraine.
Mira is a travel PR consultantin Berlin, a journalist, a
(01:00):
social media coordinator, acontent marketer for tourism, a
travel agent, a copywriter, acoach for travel professionals
the list could go on and on.
Mira is also a certified Ikigaitribe coach, a dear friend, and
only just last November was aparticipant in my first Ikigai
retreat.
(01:21):
Mira, it's an honor to have youon the podcast today and it's
good to see you.
Thank you for joining me.
Speaker 1 (01:28):
Thank you, Nick.
Thank you for inviting.
It's an honor for me to be yourguest.
Speaker 2 (01:34):
Wonderful.
So where do we begin?
This will be a profound andspecial episode as we discuss
loss and ikigai, so we're goingto dive right in and I'll say
what you shared with me.
Your working life stopped bythe first of many missile
strikes on your city of Kharkivin Ukraine on the 24th of
(01:59):
November 2022.
Do you want to share thatexperience?
Speaker 1 (02:05):
First of all, yeah, thank you, nick, for asking that
, because that is a painfulexperience from one side and
that is a very meaningfulexperience and that is the first
(02:31):
step to Ikigai from the otherside.
So, yes, I got the news aboutthe war start when I was out of
Ukraine and I was about 15,000kilometers away when the first
bombs hit my city.
My city is very close toRussian border and it was the
first city which was bombed andthe very first day my family, my
(02:52):
husband and my son could seeRussian tanks just near our
house.
So the first third which I gotafter I realized that my family
was safe that moment.
The first third was oh my God,I lost everything.
Because working in travelbusiness, I understand that that
(03:17):
very minute I lost all myprojects.
Of course nobody would travel,nobody will think about that,
that is not that case and myhouse was exactly next to the
Russian border.
I realized that we could notstay there anymore.
My family had to move out and Iwas out of Ukraine.
(03:41):
So I lost connection to myfamily.
I could not come back home.
So that was unforgettable painI felt and I can remember it up
to this moment because I was notready for that stress at all.
Speaker 2 (03:58):
Thank you for sharing that.
It's just unimaginable.
I just I can't imagine losingeverything in the space of like
an hour, finding out andrealizing can't do my business
anymore.
Lost my home, lost my.
You know all those connections,the neighborhood, and I guess
(04:21):
it was with great relief thatyou knew your family was safe.
So how did you process that,did you?
Is it like fight or flight mode?
Were you very emotional?
Were you very?
Were you angry?
Were you thinking what do Ineed to do?
Speaker 1 (04:39):
You know.
So first of all, that was,there were several tragedies
inside me.
For one second and of coursethat was a professional tragedy
that was family, a long distancebetween me and family, and, as
I said before, I was not readyfor that.
And the first two weeks I wasin very deep stress, you know, I
(05:07):
was pulling my hair out, I wasdrinking, I was smoking.
I never did before that.
So I did some abnormal thingsjust trying to find a way how I
could kill that negativeemotions, the way how I could
(05:28):
kill that negative emotions,which were?
They were just, you know,appearing every second, new and
new of course, a fear ofuncertain future, not
understanding what is it goingto be.
I couldn't understand.
How long is it?
So is it safe for my family fora long time or it's only for
short time?
So I was moving around Europetrying to get closer to Ukraine,
(05:50):
because everybody thought thatmoment that it would be short
war.
So everybody said, oh, two days, three days, one week, two
weeks.
Everybody said, oh, two days,three days, one week, two weeks.
So then two weeks were over andthe war, as we see now it's a
(06:11):
third year.
So that moment I moved closerto Ukrainian border.
But my family said to me, don'tcome back.
So just, I live in the farthestend of my country, so I had to
cross the forest end of mycountry, so I had to cross the
country to reach my home.
And my family said, no, that isvery dangerous.
(06:32):
And I happened in Germany.
So that was an invitation frommy lady friend just to come to
her house in a very deep, deepvillage of Germany.
So one day, living in a bigcity in Ukraine, having houses,
(06:55):
apartments, I don't know, cars,businesses, travelings and so on
, I happened in German villagebut that was safe.
Speaker 2 (07:04):
Hard to process.
So you, you're right, you hadthis great life, uh, successful
business, you were traveling,you were doing what you loved,
you had your family, and then,in one day, it's all gone, it's
all lost and you've.
You happen to be in germany.
So you told me you, youcouldn't see your family for
seven months, and I can'timagine not seeing my partner or
(07:28):
my son for seven months.
So that's a long time.
Do you want to touch on that?
Speaker 1 (07:34):
That was really for me also not very so.
For me that was a painfulexperience, first of all because
I was in Germany and theydidn't have the proper documents
to leave that country and I hadto wait for those documents.
And I had only, of course I hadvideo, but sometimes I even
(07:57):
couldn't have video callsbecause my family was in a
distant village in the forestand the internet was not always
possible there.
So that was, like you know.
Now I could say that that wasIkigai retreat.
So I had time to slow down, tolook, like you know, from the
(08:20):
distance at my life and toanalyze what was really valuable
, what was really not veryvaluable at all, because, you
know, I was looking at my hugehouse in Ukraine and I realized
that I cannot have it anymore.
(08:41):
I looked at my apartment, at mycars, and they realized that
that moment they meant nothing.
So the only important thing wasmy family life.
So, yes, seven months I waswithout my family and then I had
(09:02):
the chance to get new documentsand move to Ukraine.
Not move to Ukraine, visitUkraine.
I could visit Ukraine.
Speaker 2 (09:13):
Oh, you could visit, yeah, yeah.
So while this was all going on,you also discovered your father
had cancer.
Speaker 1 (09:22):
That was like you know, that was like a double hit
.
So I had just find the way howI could manage.
First stress, Then I got thesecond stress.
So from one side that was astress.
From the second side that wasthe possibility for all my
(09:45):
family to move to Germany.
But before moving to Germany,so before I could go to Germany,
to Ukraine, from Germany, Imanaged to fix my life in
Germany.
So for those six months withoutany German, without knowing any
(10:05):
up to this moment I have noidea about German language, I
speak only English.
But for those six months Imanaged to find a job here in
Germany, I managed to rent anapartment that time and I
organized the space where Icould take my family, wow.
(10:26):
And so then we discovered thatfather got cancer and that was
there.
Unfortunately, that was thechance for all my family to move
out of Ukraine, because we gotthat permission to leave the
country.
Speaker 2 (10:44):
I see.
So these remind me of yourqualities.
You're very resilient, you'revery proactive, and when you
have a problem, you seem toapproach it logically and think
what can I do?
So that's what I love about youyou have this incredible energy
.
You're very resilient, you'revery positive.
But what was it like going backto Ukraine, knowing everything
(11:12):
had changed and it was a warzone, your country had been
invaded and you couldn't go backto your home.
You had to go back to your hometo get everyone out.
What was that like?
Speaker 1 (11:24):
So first of all, then I came there for a month, every
single day, and my city wasbombed.
That was horrible.
I couldn't stay in my apartmentbecause I was in shock.
You know, for me that was new,new impressions, I would say.
You know, for me that was new,new impressions, I would say,
(11:44):
and the new feelings of thathorror.
Then you are in the house andthe house is shaking.
You know, every time then thebomb is somewhere in the city.
I couldn't believe that it wasin 21st century, in the middle
(12:05):
of Europe, and that was very, avery stressful experience.
But I had to make some papersfor my father, I had to make
some papers for my husband, sowe had to spend that month there
.
But we were leaving Ukraine bytwo cars and we were crossing
the whole country and that wasvery.
(12:29):
I remember that up to thismoment.
Then we were driving across thecountry, about 1,200 kilometers
, and you were driving justamong broken houses, damaged
cities, so tanks, cars I couldsee that before only in movies,
you know.
And then I was driving and sawthat on my own.
(12:52):
I realized that that was thetotal end of my previous life.
That's it.
Speaker 2 (13:03):
What a must be very shocking and profound
realisation.
Everything's changed, home isgone, seems like forever, it
will never be the same and youhad to start this new life in
Germany.
So I imagine it was quite hardadjusting to this new life in
(13:27):
Germany.
Do you want to touch on that?
Speaker 1 (13:31):
Yeah, thank you for that question, because up to
this moment I am not integratedin this country society.
So, first of all, I do notspeak german and I have inside
protest to learn that language.
I don't know why, but that isjust.
I just do not, like I say, I donot make myself that.
(13:54):
So I tried several times, Istopped it.
But I have really very valuableexperience of communicating
people here, of communicationwith people, yes, and I got the
first experience to be employedhere.
I was never employed before andnow I am employed and I could
(14:20):
not say that I love that.
But Ikigai helps me in thiscase.
I will tell you later how.
And so Germany gave uspossibility to live in a safe
country, germany gave mepossibility to make money,
germany gave me possibility torelax and think a bit about more
(14:45):
or less clear future, andGermany gave me possibility to
buy house here.
So now we are having our ownhouse here, we are having our
garden, we are having school forour child and we are having
more or less, let's say, two orthree steps for future.
(15:09):
Not many years, because I'm notintegrated in Germany, but two
or three steps for future wehave.
Speaker 2 (15:18):
Yeah, I mean, look, I've met you, we spent a week
together and you have thisincredible positivity, so you
seem to handle things very welland I wouldn't have known all of
this loss and tragedy if Ihadn't known your background.
(15:38):
So, before we talk about Ikigai, let's talk a little bit more
about loss, because you said youhad this realization all these
material things your home youknow not your home the house,
the physical house, the cars,all these things you realized
didn't really matter, but youhave lost significant things.
(15:59):
Obviously you know yourbusiness, this community, and
you know, imagine, a lot offriends.
So to, yeah, to lose so much Ithink you touched on this before
you realized what matters toyou.
Speaker 1 (16:18):
I want to say that the most important here that I
lost and I cannot get back,important here that I lost and I
cannot get back, that iscommunity, which is a bus show I
know now that word and that isFrance.
I do not have anybody nowoffline.
(16:40):
I do not have.
That is the the biggestchallenge for me.
That is the biggest my soulpain now because I do not have
anybody offline.
I have a lot online we willspeak about that later but I do
not have anybody so and Irealized that and just you know
(17:06):
anybody so, and I realized that,and just you know, sometime not
sure not long time ago, I saidto my husband, who is the only
person offline, husband and son.
And I say that now I understandI would never have chance to
meet all my community, to meetall my lady friends, to meet all
(17:29):
my community, to meet all mylady friends, to invite them to
our house, to our yard, to have,just you know, yoga meetings
one morning.
I would never have that andthat was a very painful thought
in my mind.
And probably now it is thebiggest challenge to make as
many offline meetings somewhereout of Germany, let's say as
(17:53):
many as I can.
So I'm trying to find thepossibility to go somewhere for
two days, for three days, if Iknow that my people can be
somewhere around.
And I am now trying to do mybest and invite people to my
house.
(18:13):
So we have a big house, we havea big yard and I create
different events here and invitemy lady friends.
So I just, you know, I said,use them with different ideas.
I invite them for the concerts,I invite them for my birthday,
I invite them.
So I just say, okay, I willcreate the reason to come.
(18:35):
Sometimes I even buy tickets tothem, you know, and uh, because
I need that.
And so that is my uh, that ismy priority number one now to
meet as many people offline as Ican.
Speaker 2 (18:52):
Yes, I can relate to that.
As you know, my business islargely online.
It's all about Ikigai.
I spend a lot of time in thisroom and I'm definitely like you
.
I'm a people person and makingnew friends, new connections, is
really important, but it's somuch better when it's in person
(19:16):
and I would say that's you knowone of my Ikigai and I think
it's one of yours.
So let's touch on Ikigai andthe impact it's had on your life
.
How would you define Ikigai?
What does it mean to you.
Speaker 1 (19:30):
I love that question, so thank you.
First of all, for me, whenpeople ask me what Ikigai is, I
always say that Ikigai is a mixof positive emotions.
So there is not just one,because if there is one, you
(19:51):
would name it like it is.
So if it is happiness, youwould say happiness.
If it is excitement, you wouldsay excitement.
But for me Ikigai it is a mixof emotions.
Me, ikigai it is a mix ofemotions and I made for myself a
(20:12):
list of 40 emotions, becausethere are hundreds of them.
But I made a list of 40emotions and I make, uh, when I
feel a mix of those emotions, Itake a piece of paper and I have
it just next to me.
I could show you, of course.
So I take a piece of paper,write it down, write what gave
(20:34):
me that mix of emotions, and putit in my Ikigai bank.
So that is very helpful.
Every time then you feel thatyour mental state is going down,
that you are not so happy, youare not so excited, you are not
so energetic, and so on, just goto your ikigai bank, take out
(20:57):
one piece piece of paper and doit, love it, so that.
So that is very important tomake a list of sources of your
ikigai, which is mix of emotions, and then know them and anytime
you can use it to upgrade yourmental state.
Speaker 2 (21:21):
I love it.
Ikigai is something you feeland, and you're right, it is a
range of emotions.
It can be excitement, it can behappiness, it can be.
Speaker 1 (21:31):
Proudness.
Speaker 2 (21:33):
Calmness, yeah, reflective calmness.
It can be this intimacy youshare with other people.
So I love your approach becauseyou're almost asking, like,
what emotions, what positiveemotions, do you want to feel,
which we would call Ikigai Kan,and you then identify what
(21:55):
brings you those emotions andthey're your sources, and that's
I mean we're really referencingthe work of Mikko Kamiya.
She identified Ikigai sourcesand then ikigai card.
So it is ultimately somethingyou feel and, as you pointed out
, it's not one emotion and it'scertainly not limited to
(22:16):
happiness.
It can be this array ofemotions and you also point out,
it's ultimately something inyou that you uncover or, I guess
, release.
Speaker 1 (22:31):
Yes, that is very important, that it is 100%, that
Ikigai is in you, so everybodyhas it.
So the only what everybody cando is uncover.
So you shouldn't go outsomewhere and look around.
(22:52):
So that is not in the field,it's not in your garden, that is
inside you and the only thingyou can do is uncover your
ikigai and if, if you do that,there is a way in reality.
So there is not one day, thereis not one exercise.
There is a way of researchingyourself.
There is question to yourselfevery single day.
(23:16):
So there is communication toyourself.
There is a deep adventureinside, but that is important to
understand.
That is inside, deep adventureinside, but that is important to
understand.
That is inside, not outside,not around you.
Speaker 2 (23:32):
So you've gone through a very unique experience
, a very tragic experience ofbasically losing everything.
So we could say you lost allyour ikigai, almost all your
ikigai.
We could say you lost all yourIkigai or almost all your Ikigai
, and then you had to move andreorganize your life and then, I
guess, once all that settled,you moved your family to Germany
(23:55):
.
You had to adjust to this newlife and then, I guess you know,
find or uncover new Ikigaiafter you'd lost everything.
And Kami Amiko writes aboutthis.
She writes about the loss ofikigais almost like a collapse
of your value systems.
So I guess my question is howdo you find or uncover ikigai
(24:20):
again when you've losteverything?
Speaker 1 (24:23):
First of all, I realized that there is the start
from the scratch, you know, andit will depend only on you and
what you choose.
So anybody can choose to suffer, feel unhappy, I don't know.
(24:45):
So smoke cigarettes and drinkwine, or you can choose
adventure, research and uncoversomething inside you, because
then you lose everything outside, you will never lose yourself.
So you always have yourself,yes, and then you have yourself.
(25:08):
You understand that, oh my God.
So I have treasure.
That is here.
Yes, I'm here, thanks God.
Yes, I'm here, thanks God, I'mnot bombed.
And so that was the moment thatI lost everything outside.
I said, oh my God, thanks, Ihave my brain, I have my soul, I
(25:29):
have my body, what I can dowith all of that stuff, what I
can do with all of that stuff?
And that was the moment when Istarted to look inside and I
started searching for somethingvaluable inside.
You know, leaving our endlessto-do lists very often forget
(25:50):
about our inside world.
And that was the moment when Irealized so nothing is around.
Only you is your own value.
And Ikigai, searching forIkigai.
That way, that process ofsearching for Ikigai source it
(26:14):
became a long trip, to myself aswell, and I took Ikigai as a
criteria of my present life.
Now I always ask myself severalquestions.
When I have to make decision,when I have to make choice, when
I have to make decision, when Ihave to make choice, when I
(26:36):
have to do something, I alwaysask myself will it be source of
my ikigai?
Will it change my life?
Will I feel ikigai after that?
And I understand that life istoo short not to live ikigai.
So, and if I can refuse ofdoing something, or if I can
(27:00):
avoid doing something, if I canmake a choice and have an ikigai
after that, I will do that.
So in most cases, people couldsay that it sounds selfish.
I would say it sounds ikigai,because that is not living for
(27:22):
yourself, that is living yourlife.
And if you are happy in yourlife, if you are excited about
your life, if you are proud ofyour life, everybody will be
happy around you as well.
So Ikigai and I say it to manypeople around me Ikigai is a
(27:43):
great criteria and it can makeyour life easier.
You know, because you have likea basis and you can ask
yourself, okay, how to make thischoice?
I can do that easily.
If it is my ikigai, I will dothat.
If it is not my ikigai, I willnever do that.
That's it.
(28:04):
Life is too short.
Speaker 2 (28:07):
Yeah, that's a really valuable insight.
It gives you criteria to makedecisions that really support
your life and are based on yourvalues.
So I think Ikigai is all aboutliving authentically to your
values and when you do that,yeah, you're like a better
person to be around becauseyou're being authentic, you're
(28:28):
being true to who you want to be.
But, interestingly, even someIkigai sources, like you
mentioned, could be drinking orsmoking, and they're more like
coping mechanisms.
So maybe they're a short-termsolution, but they're not really
healthy ikigai solutions.
(28:50):
But I guess what we're talkingabout is tragedy.
Trauma can push you tocontemplate.
Yeah, what really matters to me, what is my higai?
And you've gone through thatand I think from that, one
(29:11):
quality I'm assuming you'vealways had is resilience.
So you have this incredibleresilience and you can quickly
move on, make decisions.
But it sounds like resiliencestrengthens this belief in
Ikigai and it helps youunderstand what are your Ikigai
(29:32):
sources.
So do you want to touch onresilience?
Speaker 1 (29:37):
That is, yes, that is very, very, very actual topic
to discuss, because that isexactly what I gained when I
started to study Ikigai Notbefore, you know, because I
could say that I was pretty weakand I mean, I was not focused,
(30:04):
I couldn't understand where tofocus, where to find their
energy, how to reduce my stress,and so on so far, but then I
just started subconsciously, notconsciously, that time, yes, I
started to look inside and Istarted to understand that I am
responsible for my life and atthe moment you make that
(30:29):
decision, you became resilient.
So, because you understand thatnobody around cannot make your
life better and nobody aroundcan make your life worse, only
you make a decision.
What is your life look like now?
(30:50):
And at the moment you arestrong enough to make that
decision.
You know it's about will, it'sabout inside will.
So people are very weak in mostcases and they do not have will
to make that decision.
I was lucky, I could say, tohave that will.
(31:10):
So I didn't train that.
Yes, I was just lucky that Ihad that will.
So that was, I was responsiblefor my life and I found
condition, internal sources ofmy mental state, which I liked.
That moment, yes, and I couldsay that I found my ikigai
(31:32):
sources inside and I based on it.
But first was decision to beresponsible for your life and I
would say, in any stresssituation.
So the first, of course you canmake yourself a bit bold, you
can make yourself a bit drunkand so on, that's okay.
(31:54):
You can make yourself a bitdrunk and so on, that's okay.
But after that you just have tohave a fair talk to yourself.
I'm ready to be responsible forthat in any situation, even in
war.
So when you cannot control whatis going around, but you cannot
(32:21):
control how you react at that,and then your icky guy way
starts.
So you make the decision and goinside to search for sources
what can change your mentalstate and what can help you to
be stronger.
Speaker 2 (32:29):
Very powerful.
I think Viktor Frankl wrote onthis and he described it as the
last human freedom.
Like you, can lose everything.
All these horrible things canbe done to you, but whatever you
think and what choices you make, regardless of circumstance, is
your last human freedom, andit's very powerful.
(32:51):
You can always choose how tothink and how to react, and
maybe we don't do that enoughtoday.
We have so much influence nowwe have.
Most of us listening to thispodcast would have a pretty good
life, and we have probably Idon't know first world problems
(33:14):
or minor problems, but you'vegone through something.
You know life changing tragicthings will never be the same,
but it sounds like it's almostturned you into this stronger
new person and you see lifedifferently.
Is that the case?
Do you see life verydifferently now?
Speaker 1 (33:35):
Absolutely yes.
First of all, I like Frankl'sidea that if you set a kind of
future for your brain, you willsurvive.
And in this case he wasspeaking about goal for future
and he was thinking, for example, about writing a book about his
(33:57):
sufferings, and that kept himalive.
So the same I I'm doing now, Icould say, but I'm doing now
because of ikigai bright future,need you know.
And uh, I made it like apractice for me and it works,
(34:18):
because I had a very painful,stressful situation with my when
I realized that my father wasdying here in Germany and I
realized that my mental statewas very unstable.
But that moment I have already.
I had already knew about ikigai.
(34:38):
So I went out to the balcony,uh, took my telephone and you
know, at the moment then myfather was dying.
I was in a terrible mental state.
I took my telephone,remembering about that icky guy
need, about bright future, and Ijust started to search for a
(35:01):
new car for myself.
From one side, it's nonsense.
From the other side, my brainchanged focus and I changed my
mental state.
That moment I had no plans tobuy the car or something like
that.
You know, I didn't need it thatmoment, but I just gave my
(35:23):
brain a different idea to thinkabout nice event in the future
which I will arrange for myself.
It changed state very, very,very fast and I use this
practice very often.
When I see that now, in themoment, I'm going to get stress,
(35:44):
I just try to cheat my brainand show it something nice in
the future.
I love it.
Speaker 2 (35:56):
That's awesome.
So that's a very that's a muchbetter yeah, far better to
switch your focus and think,okay, what can I look forward to
?
You're creating it yourself.
You're saying, well, I'm goingto think about buying a car in
the future, I might think aboutbuying a Porsche now.
So rather than thinking, oh,I'm stressed, I'll have a drink,
(36:18):
I'll have a smoke, I'll yeah.
So this ability to switch focusand decide I want this for my
future a much healthier way tohandle stress than a coping
mechanism.
This is like a really proactiveway to handle stress and ties
(36:38):
back to resilience and really isasking well, everything's crap.
At the moment, I feel crap, butwhat do I want to think about,
what do I want to focus on?
And you really live that andI've seen that and I mean I have
many people interesting peoplecome into my life for Ikigai,
but you are definitely one ofthe most unique and inspiring
(37:03):
and you've really embracedIkigai, all the teachings, and
you now live a life of Ikigai.
So how has Ikigai changed yourlife?
Speaker 1 (37:15):
First of all, thank you.
No, I want to thank universefor you in my Ikigai life,
because you were the first onewho really gave me that first
touch to Ikigai and my idea wasto search for Ikigai knowledge,
(37:38):
not to help myself.
My idea was to help thousandsof women, ukrainian women, who
are out of Ukraine.
Now, about Ikigai, I started todevelop different ways, how I
(37:58):
could use that in my life andhow it could help for lives of
Ukrainian women.
Now I am one of the leaders ofIkigai Club and up to this
moment, we have about 73ukrainian ladies who are in that
(38:21):
ikigai club and that is our bigachievement here.
So that is first.
Second.
I understand that I show peoplethat what they can find, then
they lose everything.
It is the way to help not onlythose women, but it's a way to
(38:44):
help my country as well.
That is really very powerful,because they lost everything as
well.
They are out of their countriesand they now selling them that
idea of Ikigai.
In reality, I am selling themtheir future life possibilities
(39:06):
to be with yourself, to bepowerful, to have that mental
state that you can do everythingin any place on the planet.
So I think that is my, it's akind of my Ikigai mission.
Speaker 2 (39:21):
It's inspiring.
I'm really astounded that thisone word, which I mean is a
universal concept.
We all want to have ameaningful, fulfilling life.
But, yeah, the Japaneselanguage seems to articulate,
articulates concepts into oneword and it's something.
(39:45):
There's something veryappealing.
And there's also this culturallens, this Japanese lens on what
makes life worth living, whichis different to other cultures.
And here you are, you'reinspiring, you're giving all
these women hope and you createdit all, this community.
Obviously, it's needed with somany women going through loss,
(40:10):
many of who can't see theirpartners because they're
husbands or fathers, maybe evensons, in Ukraine fighting.
And it's also creatingcommunity, which we both love,
and that idea of ibasho.
So, yeah, it's very inspiringfor me to see you take Ikigai
(40:32):
and use it to inspire otherpeople who are going through so
much loss, and you've eventurned Ikigai into a verb with
this phrase Ikigai, your life,which I love.
So do you want to touch on that?
Speaker 1 (40:50):
Yes, first of all, I created two things about Ikigai
now.
Yes, yes, first of all, Icreated two things about Ikigai
now.
Yes, the first I created that,as I say, transformational tool
which is Ikigai life plan, and Icreated that to show women that
they can plan Ikigai sources intheir life, so they do not have
(41:16):
to plan only to-do lists, butthey have to plan ikigai in
their life, so they have to planevents, they have to plan
meaningful meetings and so on,so something which will give
them that great feeling and thatgreat mental state, that mix of
emotions.
(41:36):
Yes, I created that sloganIkigai your life, where Ikigai
is a verb, and I am going toproduce this year, I'm going to
produce a sweet shorts for girlsin my club and I think that
this year, everybody in my clubwill wear Ikigai your life.
(42:00):
So everybody will Ikigai theirlife, because that is really
very important to leave emotionsbut not only to do lists.
Speaker 2 (42:12):
I love it when people turn nouns into verbs and I
mean it really articulates theproactive nature of Ikigai.
If you want Ikigai, you have todo something, you have to set
plans, you have to meet people,you have to engage in activities
that are meaningful,challenging, and Ikigai is also
(42:33):
very reflective, because youneed to understand yourself,
your values.
But once you understand that,then you've got to do something.
And I believe Ikigai isstrongly felt when there is some
sort of challenge or obstacleyou have to overcome, usually in
a positive context.
So starting your own communityor we'll talk about this later,
(42:57):
but you know me, deciding to domy first retreat, all these
planning challenges, impostersyndrome, all these things you
have to overcome.
But once you do overcome thosechallenges and you create
community, the Ikigai is feltmore intensely.
So, yeah, I love this idea ofikigai-ing your life.
(43:20):
I might start using it, so I'llgive you credit.
Speaker 1 (43:26):
But you know what is really important here?
Japanese are lucky to live toikigai their life because,
because they are japanese, yes,but we it's like a new skill we
have to get.
So that's why, for us, if youwant to have ikigai in your life
(43:46):
, you have to ikigai your life,because that is a skill you have
to gain.
And there is a skill toidentify Ikigai because you have
already had it, yes, so youhave to uncover it.
And I always say there is askill, and I think that in some
(44:06):
years we will discuss here, likeyou know, like a useful habit
you should get, you should gainthis.
That is Ikigai habit.
And so there is ikigai habitand so that is and I think I
love the phrase that ikigai isthe best expert japan can make.
I like this phrase, yes and um,that is very, that is very true
(44:30):
.
So that's why, for japanese,it's's okay, they live that,
they know what is it.
But for us we have to ikigai.
Yes, that is a proactiveapproach.
Speaker 2 (44:42):
Yeah, even Ken Moggi said ikigai is perhaps the best
export of Japan.
Japan has all these amazingcultures, cultural aspects,
products and whatnot.
But perhaps ikigai this wordthat articulates perhaps a
different way to think aboutlife, how to make life
meaningful is unique and canchange lives.
(45:05):
Then there's the irony.
I guess in Japan, you know,it's just a normal word.
For them it's not somethingthey really think about or talk
about that much.
It's so ingrained in their lifethat among my friends, the ones
who don't even think about itusually live a life of ikigai
(45:26):
because they don't need to thinkabout their ikigai, because
they know what it is.
Yeah, so that's almost an ironyof ikigai is like, when you know
you're Ikigai, you're justliving it.
Obviously our perspectives aredifferent because we're sharing
the concept.
We talk about it a lot.
So it goes back to this idea offeeling you know you're living
(45:48):
with Ikigai when you feelmultiple positive emotions every
day from different sources,from people, from challenges,
from work, from your hobbies.
The list could go on and on,but I think there would be
people listening to this podcastwho might think, oh, I'm
(46:09):
struggling with a lack of ikigai.
So what is your advice, mira,for people listening to this
episode and they're thinking, oh, I don't have ikigai so you
know, I, just as I said before,that is a question of making
decision and making choice.
Speaker 1 (46:28):
But we have to understand one very simple thing
we will never get anything goodin life if we do not feel good.
But you know, that is the mostimportant, that is the mental
state.
Even money, that is areflection of your interaction
(46:50):
with the universe.
If you are not happy, if youare not satisfied, if you are
not grateful, if you are in abad mood, world will give you
back the same.
So that's why, the first andthe most important make a
decision to live this happy life.
So that should be Ikigai life.
(47:10):
Yes, you should make a decisionto Ikigai your life.
So that is first.
Second, you remember the ideathat you have already had ikigai
inside.
So it means you have thattreasure, you're happy, you're
lucky.
So go inside and try to find it.
Ask yourself questions, makeikigai bank, write down your
(47:35):
answers and look what makes youfeel those emotions, yes, mix of
emotions.
Just study yourself, takeresponsibility and do not look
at circumstances, because notcircumstances make your life,
but you can make your life andIkigai it's a lifestyle.
(47:58):
So there is not one dayexercise If you make a decision
to live that style.
Just follow it.
Start from the small, like KenMohe said as well yes, start
from the small.
Start, do something first.
What can make you happy,excited and so on?
(48:20):
So start with the small andwrite down, make your Ikigai
bank.
Think about that and understandthat everything is inside, not
outside.
And I always say to my, as soonas I get something negative
inside, not outside, and Ialways say to my, as soon as I
get something negative inside,bad mood or something like that,
(48:41):
I always remember the worldwill give me back the same.
I do not want that.
So I go and change the same.
At the moment that I realizedthat I lost everything and I
asked my question okay, what doyou want to get back?
(49:01):
Yes, what do you want to get?
You have now just a sheet ofpaper, yes, and so you can draw
everything you want there.
So what do you want to draw?
Take bright colors.
So make your life Ikigai yourlife.
That's it.
Speaker 2 (49:19):
I love it.
Yeah, I love what I learnedfrom my students, and my
students often have thisdifferent perspective or they
describe Ikigai in differentways, and these words often come
up or terms come up like ikigaidecisions, and that's something
I learned not learned, but oneof my coaches came up with like,
(49:42):
oh, I'm teaching my clientsikigai decisions before they
make financial decisions.
Shout out to Chris yeah, andthis idea of an ikigai life plan
from you, or this idea to justikigai your life and to focus
whatever you focus on is whatyou're going to get back.
So if you yeah, if you focus onall the negatives, that's what
(50:04):
you're going to get, but if youfocus on life affirming aspects
of your life and you start smalland be proactive about how
you're going to generate orcreate that in your life, then
your life will change and you'llfeel better.
So we really are responsiblefor how we feel and we can
(50:24):
always start small, as Ken Moggyprescribes.
So I love it.
So this leads us to.
So I love it.
So this leads us to reminiscingabout the time we met in person
, which wasn't too long ago wemet last November and it was
(50:45):
very special.
I remember waiting for yououtside Tokyo train station
looking at my watch, trying tofind you and Lydia.
And then, yeah, you guys showedup, you were the first to show
up and since that moment, orfrom that moment, we had this
incredible eight days together.
(51:06):
So what did you enjoy about theretreat?
What did you learn?
Speaker 1 (51:13):
That was.
I could say that after thismoment that was the best journey
in my life.
I traveled a lot, I visited alot of countries more than 50,
but that was the best journey ofmy life, not because of people
I met and because of idea ofretreat itself.
(51:35):
And the main idea and you knowwhat I really loved that when I
send a postcard from oneJapanese town to me in Germany.
So I wrote the postcard tomyself and I wrote there my
(51:57):
insights about trip.
So when I came Cologne I evendidn't remember what was in my
postcard.
But today I read it one moretime and there were very
important thoughts about thattrip.
So, first of all, that was aperfect mix of people and you
(52:30):
created the most important ideanot to look around just I mean
sites or places or houses, butto feel how they live, to feel
people, to meet people, tounderstand the value.
You showed me people who areliving in their Ikigai and I
(52:53):
admired them.
So that was amazing experience.
When I looked at peopleunderstand oh my gosh.
So he was dying in digor afterhis family for 400 years in the
21st century then everything canbe done with machines, but he
was so excited with his job andthat was very valuable.
(53:18):
I felt a different taste oflife.
So your japan I would say yourjapan, because I would see it
different if I go there withother experience yes, so, but
your Japan showed me people howpeople are living in their
(53:40):
Ikigai, how they feel thatmental state, how they feel what
is it?
How they feel their Ikigai?
So that was like a trip insidejapanese.
So that was, that was the themost valuable experience trip
inside japanese people.
(54:01):
I would never do it myself,despite the fact that I am
travel professional.
I can craft any trip.
I would never do that.
I cannot.
Speaker 2 (54:10):
So that was very valuable it was very valuable
and that's what I wanted tocreate.
I mean, we had a great groupdynamic in our own group, but
for me it is about theconnections you make with
Japanese and the people.
I'm very lucky I seem to stumbleupon and meet very special
people and yeah even yourexample of Watanabe-san, the
(54:33):
Indigo Dying Craftsman, 16thgeneration family business for
400 years, and yet he was sohumble, friendly and we had this
wonderful day where we, youknow, made our own shores and
this history passed from 15generations down to him and he's
(54:58):
got his own problems.
You know, he doesn't have anydirect children and he's
thinking about how can he passon this dying crafts, yeah, this
dying crafts.
So that's another era of Japanthat I worry about.
Like, oh, there are all thesecrafts that are dying.
So to be able to bring you guysand have you experience, that
(55:18):
was special.
So it's always tied to people.
I think the Ikigai, almostevery Ikigai experience, either
directly or indirectly, is tiedto people and I agree it was a
very different experience ofJapan and maybe hard to create,
unless I guess I'm lucky I'vegot friends, of course, the
(55:42):
amazing Shinji, who is a dearfriend and such a fun guy.
So, yeah, you need someone tohelp you locally and I was very
lucky that I had shinji, whoI've known for 20 years, to help
.
Speaker 1 (55:57):
So uh chinji is a hero of my uh video, uh in
instagram today, and I uh Iinterviewed him and that was one
of the Japanese which I reallyloved how he described Ikigai,
(56:18):
and I want to say that you andShinji did a great job choosing
the locations.
Yeah, that was one more plus tothat retreat that I really
loved all locations I visited.
(56:39):
I loved all places we stayed.
I loved myself in this trip.
I had a perfect mood, alwaysgood mood, fantastic food,
fantastic places for dinner andlunch and so on.
(57:00):
So every detail was craftedespecially for me and you did a
great job because we hadvegetarians, people who didn't
eat meat, people who ate meat,people who didn't drink, people
who drank.
So in reality, you had to do somany different details, but I
(57:22):
would recommend you never dothat after yes, never do it in
the future.
Just say we have this food,because otherwise you can go
crazy every time asking peopleoh my God, no food, no meat, no
fish, no nothing, and that isreally very difficult to
organize.
(57:43):
So you did a perfect job hereas well.
Then, monastery it wasincredible experience and Zen
meditation with that.
I just yesterday watched thatvideo with that motivational
stick.
That is my favorite.
I love it.
That is every single moment Ican remember in my mind and I'm
(58:13):
happy to you know, know, like toreplay it over and over again
because it gives me ikigai.
So that is a source of ikigai.
Speaker 2 (58:23):
I love it yeah, it was, for me too it's.
I mean, it was a challenge, butit was a worthy challenge.
It was a worthwhile challengeand, you're right, me and Shinji
were thinking what are we goingto do?
Like, we've got a strictvegetarian, we have two halau
eaters, we have a pescatarian,and then we have people who can
eat meat.
And my friend Shinji's like, oh, this is like tragedy that they
(58:46):
can't have shabu-shabu, theycan't have yakiniku, they can't
even eat sushi, like all thesefoods that are so delicious.
And then he got to work and hewas so diligent and, as you know
, I mean I went to Japan just tomeet all these people and plan
and greet people, because Ithought this is not a holiday,
(59:06):
this is a study trip.
This needs to be very special.
And then again, for the people,yeah, we got special access to
that Buddhist temple and thatexperience of zazen seated
meditation with theencouragement stick.
You know the stick to whack youto focus, and that was
(59:29):
interesting, that interplay ofasking to be in a hit and
obviously it's safe and it'sdone to encourage you.
So even for me, all of this waslike new.
Most of it was new to me and Iwas very lucky to have these
connections and I'll be forevergrateful to Shinji and all the
work he put in.
(59:49):
It's strengthened ourfriendship and this is something
we're going to do, so that'ssomething I'll do again,
hopefully this year, in 2025.
Ikigai opens up your future.
It makes you realize I can dothis, I can do that, I can bring
people together.
So what does your future holdfor you, mira, for 2025?
(01:00:15):
What are your Ikigai plans?
Speaker 1 (01:00:18):
So, first of all, I am an Ikigai ambassador in this
part of the planet.
I named it myself and I amgoing to set this trend which is
Ikigai lifestyle, and I'm doingthat now.
So ikigai, your life, that isthe motto I will promote this
(01:00:42):
year and I will promote thatliving ikigai, that is something
you must experience, becauselife is too short, and I'm going
to do several offline speechesand the the first one is in
january 2025, so next week Iwill go to berlin to speak and I
(01:01:10):
am going to write the book aswell.
Speaker 2 (01:01:15):
Nice.
Speaker 1 (01:01:16):
And I am going to, together with Lydia, we are
going to describe Japaneseconcepts, different Japanese
concepts which can help you tomove forward, to uncover your
(01:01:36):
ikigai love it and there is.
There is, of course, because ofyou.
So because you made fantasticikigai retreat journal, where
you showed us different conceptsand we it was like there the
(01:02:02):
beginning of that idea, andflying back from japan in the
airplane, we started to to dropideas and up to this moment, we
have a picture what we want todo.
So I think we are going tofinish this year as well.
Thank you, nick.
Speaker 2 (01:02:22):
Awesome.
Speaker 1 (01:02:23):
Obrigado.
Speaker 2 (01:02:25):
Koto da koso.
So, yeah, it's so wonderful forme to hear this and you are an
ambassador and I'll alwayssupport you and I look forward
to us meeting again in personand collaborating on some Ikigai
projects with Lydia, yourwonderful friend Lydia, who's
(01:02:45):
also part of Ikigai tribe, andit was so funny when you told me
Lydia you know she's elegantand graceful, and that you're at
the supermarket and thecheckout lady thought Lydia was
Japanese, Just based on her body, language and behavior.
So we have all these beautifulmemories.
Speaker 1 (01:03:08):
You know I had several comments from people
that we look like Japanese.
They say, wow, you are maybebecause of black hair, I don't
know.
But they say you look likeJapanese.
And so from one side that is akind of compliment.
You know, I take it.
I say okay, probably in thepast life it was.
Speaker 2 (01:03:32):
Maybe.
So, before we end, where canpeople find you?
I know you and Lydia are veryactive on Instagram, so we'll
link to your Instagram accounts.
Speaker 1 (01:03:46):
Absolutely.
Yes, my Instagram account isikigaimiroslavomarchenko, so
that is very easy.
Ikigai, miroslava Marchenko, sothat is very easy.
And yes, I am very active and Iam promoting ideas of Ikigai in
all my contact pieces, so I'mtrying to show what the Ikigai
(01:04:06):
is, what you can do, whatpractices can help you to
uncover it, and so on.
Speaker 2 (01:04:12):
Awesome, it's been a pleasure.
It was so wonderful to meet youlast November and you're a very
special friend, you and Lydia,and I can't wait to see you this
year.
So let's make it an Ikigai goalto catch up in person again,
maybe here there or maybe inJapan again.
Speaker 1 (01:04:33):
Thank you, nick, for invitation.
Yes, I definitely have Japan inmy list in my Ikigai life plan.
In my Ikigai life plan, that isyes, and not because of Japan,
but because of people andbecause of Ikigai.
So thank you for inviting me.
That was very special interview.
Speaker 2 (01:04:55):
My pleasure.
Bye for now.
Speaker 1 (01:04:58):
Bye.
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