December 10, 2024 • 47 mins
Are you passionate about historic properties?
Japan is home to a wealth of historical gems, many of which are in need of preservation.
In this blog post, Nick speaks with Tamaki Nishimura to discuss the importance of saving these iconic properties and transforming them into unique vacation rentals.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Ikigai, I think, in Japanese has many meanings, and
I try to think that like deeperlevel of ikigai, and the moment
that I feel the joy for myselfis that when I see someone
maximizing their potential itcould be someone or the property
or the area.
I don't mean not only about theproperty.
(00:21):
I think the same for, forexample, my children and also my
team member as well, and when Isee those potential that has
not been maximized, then I feelreally, really frustrated.
I think it's too much forsomeone else to think like that,
for someone, but I honestlyfeel frustrated about it, and
(00:42):
for myself too.
And, uh, for this planet though.
Uh case, I see many cases thatis not maximizing the potential.
It's because they're closed andthey don't really see the
opportunity.
That's being outside of thearea or outside of the community
.
So, as I said, the you knowikigai or kokorazashi for the
(01:03):
planets ourselves is to unlockthe potential, and that can play
with my ikigai as well.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
Find your ikigai at ikigaitribecom.
My guest today on episode 93Find your Ikigai at
ikigaitribecom.
My guest today on episode 93 ofthe Ikigai podcast is Tamaki
Nishimura, founder and CEO ofPlanet Labs, an organization
that specializes in transformingiconic properties across Japan
(01:42):
into unique vacation rentals,with a focus on cultural
preservation and fosteringpartnerships with local
communities.
It's a pleasure to have you on,tamaki.
Speaker 1 (01:53):
Thank you.
Thank you for the perfectintroduction.
Speaker 2 (01:58):
It's good to see you again.
Of course, we met in personlast month.
You treated me to lunch, sothat was yeah, really special to
meet you and we have ourintroduction to thank Steve.
Steve Bouchamp, a friend ofmine, also a podcast guest, who
told me all about Planet Dow, sowe have two names here.
(02:22):
But first would you like togive us a bit of background
about yourself?
Speaker 1 (02:28):
Sure, so my name is Tamaki.
I was born and raised in Osakaslash Kyoto, but I'm currently
living in Kanagawa Prefecture,which is our next prefecture to
Tokyo, because I have two kids,so I decided not to live in the
city center.
We love going camping and alsowe live in kind of like nature,
you know space.
(02:48):
So throughout my career I wasin startup companies.
So first business that we wereworking on was building the
tourism platform just like youknow Airbnb experience we have
for global.
But we were building theJapanese version of airbnb with
the entity dokomo.
That's one of the biggesttelecom companies in japan.
(03:09):
Yeah, but covid hit so we hadto close the business.
The business was like focusingon the local experience to offer
to especially an internationaltraveler.
But during the downtime I hadto kind of shift my interest to
other spaces.
And crypto was pretty big inJapan.
You know NFT and Bitcoin andall but I wasn't too excited
(03:32):
about like Bitcoin price, likegoing up and down and stuff.
I was more excited about theconcept of DAO, so connecting
individuals to work for the samegoal together.
So I was keen to connect those,that concept of DAO and what I
was doing.
And the Planet DAO is the nextbusiness that I came up with.
Yeah, so it's been half a yearsince I launched.
(03:56):
By counting the time that wewere like building before the
launch, it's been a year, yeah,wow.
Speaker 2 (04:04):
So that's steady progress when I found out about
your website and what you'redoing.
So, yeah, let's focus on thename a bit more.
So there's two names?
I think you're.
Is it like a parent company'sPlanet Labs, but Planet Dow is
the, I guess, the brand.
Speaker 1 (04:22):
Right, right, you're right.
Speaker 2 (04:24):
Yeah, would you like to touch on why you chose Planet
Dao?
Speaker 1 (04:28):
Right.
So for the product-wise, asNick explained in the first
introduction, we specialize intotransforming the properties in
Japan, especially the temples,or those properties that
individuals cannot buy because,for example, the property comes
with a big forest and that comeswith the farmland.
(04:48):
So individuals need thefinancial support to transform
the use of US land intosomething.
Or, for example, the temple,just one individual or one
corporate cannot own it becausethe local community has so much,
you know, affection for theproperty so they cannot just,
you know, give up on theownership of it.
(05:10):
So we're those properties, arethat kind of properties that we
are taking care of.
So a reason why I name itplanet is that the planet earth
is like no one owns it, right so, and those properties that we
are touching is on that kind ofproperties that one, or like one
, individual or corporate justown it.
So I named Planet because it'sgoing to be the transforming the
(05:36):
norm and concept of theownership into something new.
So we will have multipleindividuals to own the land or
the property and it's not goingto be just one ownership owned
by that community only, but alsowe have the community with
investor slash, localcommunities slash, you know,
like town and cities.
(05:57):
So that's why I named planetlike that and I put dao.
A lot of people ask me what DAOmeans and is that the word come
from like Chinese or somethinglike that, and I'm like no, no,
it's not.
So DAO stands for DecentralizedAutonomous Organization, so
(06:19):
these terms originally come fromcrypto blockchain project
mainly, and our idea is, know,global community utilizing the
crypto token.
That was our first intention,but we decided not to for now
because not a lot of people arepretty used to, you know, like,
using the crypto wallet andstuff, so we decided not to.
Then, also, the law in Japanwith the crypto has been pretty
(06:40):
strict right now.
So right now, we are not usingcrypto token in anything strict
right now.
So right now, we are not usingcrypto token in anything but for
the future, since we have a lotof people internationally.
The currency transaction hasbeen a problem, a big issue for
us.
So utilizing the crypto it'sgoing to be some solution that
will enhance our, you know, likea project.
Speaker 2 (07:01):
So that's what we're looking at yeah, I think we
should point out that you'reessentially you're saving these
iconic properties, or theseproperties that have this
immense value in terms ofhistoric value, cultural value,
and they're very much tied to, Iguess, the local population.
(07:21):
They are often in remote areasor in towns that are at risk of
dying.
So what you're doing is reallyinspiring.
I think it's really importantand you're giving as you said,
you're giving people.
Basically, it sounds likeyou're really giving people
outside of japan an opportunityto invest in and kind of be a
(07:44):
part owner not really a partowner, but someone who
contribute to the longevity ofthese properties and save them
which is, you know, reallyinspiring but, at the same time,
I think this is, you know,really challenging, and we'll
talk about the challenges you'vegone through.
So, you come across as someonewho's, you know, very
(08:06):
entrepreneurial, ambitious, andyou know you're still quite
young and you've got two kids.
I kind of think, wow, what wasI doing in my early or mid-20s?
Nothing like what you're doing.
So it's kind of amazing.
But how did this particularproject come about and what was
(08:26):
the reason or the inspirationfor you to start planet down?
Speaker 1 (08:31):
sure.
So, um, that comes from mypassion in the first place,
because at my previous projectwhat I was doing was basically,
you know, like showinginternational tourists not only
the face of j.
I was like showing more deeperside of Japan by connecting
those local artisans or localpeople with the international
(08:51):
tourists and I just loved themoment that people kind of like
falling in love in Japan, youknow.
So, by connecting those localartisans to international
tourists, they always give themthe new perspective of seeing
things.
So what they what they I meanis that local artisans are doing
for everyday thing that's beennew to them, new to the
(09:11):
international tourists.
So they're like wow, like whatyou're doing is so great and
things will actually give theenergy and inspiration for the
local artisans.
So they kind of gain like theirconfidence and all.
So I just love to see themoment.
Speaker 2 (09:24):
Yeah, I can relate to that.
As you know, I had a retreat myfirst retreat this year and it
was similar to what you'resaying this focus on exposing
foreigners to, yeah, uniquecraftspersonship or unique
places away from all the touristsites.
And we looked at.
Something that was reallyinteresting was Aizome, so
(09:45):
indigo dyeing, and we foundsomeone in gujo hachiman who was
like 16th generation of this400 year old business and, you
know, still doing the indigodyeing and making products but
also holding workshops and, yeah, it was really special to kind
of have a taste of thistradition and see how everyone
(10:09):
responded to it.
And, yeah, this owner and thiscrafts man has no direct heir,
he has no children and so he'sgoing to I think he's one of his
nephews or nieces will takeover the business.
And yeah, it was a major concern, like this business that's been
(10:32):
around for 400 years was atrisk of, yeah, sort of dying.
So I think that's a really,really cool idea to try and
expose foreigners to theseunknown or unique aspects of
culture, right, that are at riskof dying because, just because
(10:53):
the way japan is, I guess, withmost young people moving to
cities and losing a lot, so it'sreally, yeah, really special, I
think what you're doingespecially those like japanese.
Speaker 1 (11:04):
Young people think like, what they're doing is not
really cool, you know, um, soit's really.
I don't know how to say it inenglish, but I feel it's yeah
it's a tragic loss ofopportunity, right right.
Yeah, it was an opportunity.
Speaker 2 (11:20):
I feel that too and so I'm trying to work out.
Have you always had this in you, this desire to preserve
Japanese culture, or did youhave some personal experience
that made you think oh well, myculture is beautiful, it is
unique and I should do somethingto save it, right?
Speaker 1 (11:43):
That comes from all my experience from like when I
was running a business of youknow creating a local
experiences.
I used to work with the geishastoo.
Their business has been prettydownside too because their main
is to serve, you know sake andyou know go to the banquet party
that the Japanese, you knowsalary men, does.
But it's been pretty downside,especially after the COVID hit
(12:06):
right.
So we were creating the eventshow with them to show,
especially for the internationaltraveler.
So I knew all the culture, partof Japan from the experiences
and I realized that a lot oflike, especially young
generation, wants to go to Tokyoor city area for looking for
some opportunity, especially forlike technology side of it.
(12:26):
But I realized that the Japan isnot going to be economically
like highly growing, like asmuch as like it does in the
States or, you know, in China orany other countries that is
hitting the economical growth.
So what Japan holds issomething that money cannot buy.
I think and reason why so manyum traveler, international
(12:49):
travelers, are coming to japanis that they want to see the
culture and history and natureor maybe instruct infrastructure
, like we have really good umtrain system and all.
No, that's what they're comingto Japan for, but we are not
actively preserving those partsof Japan, because it's really
hard to see the financial value,you know, of the cultural
(13:12):
history.
So I really feel kind of aresponsibility to preserve those
bits of Japan for the future,because without taking any
action for that then we will beactively losing those cultures
and history.
So yeah, that's my interest andI'm also connected to Ikigai.
Speaker 2 (13:33):
I would say yeah, it's a beautiful Ikigai and it
does surprise me that, because Imean, there's so much tourism
in Japan even maybe we'rehearing a lot about over-tourism
obviously to all the famoustourist spots and, yeah, it
(13:53):
surprises me that government orlocal government is so out of
touch of what a good chunk ofwhat foreigners want to
experience.
Is this tradition, is thisculture, is this history they
can't experience really anywhereelse.
And we hear these terriblestories of local councils
concreting coastline or makingall these weird buildings and
(14:18):
not realising that, oh, it's thetemples, or it's?
The shrines or it's thesehistoric buildings that people
would love to visit or stay in.
Right, right and so yeah,you're providing that
opportunity and you've started.
I mean, this is early days foryou it is yeah, and it's highly
(14:40):
ambitious.
Speaker 1 (14:40):
So what is the vision or the kokorozashi of planet
tau, because I I think, wow,this could be endless, because
there could be, there'sliterally thousands of
properties, to say right I'llsay, to unlock the hidden
potential that we always see orthe community has, and always
(15:04):
the power of, you know,collective purpose that we bring
from the you know overseas,especially Because we are not
going to be playing the mainrole in the local area or the
properties.
So property or the localcommunity comes first.
In the case of like Wakayama,the first project we did because
we had the local communityactively involved in and also
(15:24):
connecting us to the localpeople and they were wishing for
this project to be successful.
That's why we succeeded infunding the project and moving
to the renovation.
So having the local peopleplaying the main role for each
project is very crucial for us.
That's how I see it.
So what we can do is just tounlock the potential itself.
(15:46):
Yeah, that's how I see.
Speaker 2 (15:49):
Yeah, so this is quite challenging.
It is You're trying to save aproperty.
You work with locals, so you'revery respectful to their needs.
And then you renovate theseproperties, but you maintain
their historical value.
So you're not really changingthe structure, you're just sort
of reforming so that people canthen stay there.
(16:10):
So yeah, many moving parts andyou know several stakeholders,
so how has the journey been sofar?
Speaker 1 (16:22):
so at first we launched our first project in
this year, may, and we actuallyspent almost a year to structure
like a law related structure,then you know, business model
itself, that comply with thecurrent Japanese law.
And that was a quite toughjourney because our product
include the real estate law,then also security law in Japan.
(16:43):
As I said, that has been prettystrict in Japan, but we got
good luck actually to find theright lawyer that knows about
all the real estate law and alsothe crypto and security law in
Japan and he was not tooconservative so he could give us
a good idea that complies withwhat we want to do and also the
(17:05):
current law.
So that was really important tohave the right lawyer for us.
And another concern for us wasour vision.
Is was very, very the concernbut luckily, after we launched
(17:30):
it, um, we had so many people,enough investor to reach our
goal of the fundraising.
So, yeah, we had, I think, liketwo luck that brought our
project to be successful and,surprisingly, 80% of our
investors come from outside ofJapan.
That was pretty unexpected forus.
(17:53):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:54):
Yeah, I guess it gives you a clear indication of
how much foreigners love thisspecial aspect of Japan, this
culture and what they canexperience or gain by going
there.
So I guess they're invested, uh, you know, financially, but
they're also invested, you know,personally, like, oh, this is
(18:14):
something we're far protecting.
And yeah, when I heard about itand I saw the prop the first
property you were saving I waswas like, oh wow, this is
amazing.
Speaker 1 (18:25):
So yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:26):
I guess I purchased one share too.
Speaker 1 (18:29):
Thank you.
Thank you so much, I'm reallyinterested in your future
properties.
Speaker 2 (18:37):
Touched on your properties.
But, yeah, it seems you'reinvesting so much to get this up
and running.
So imagine it's, you know,quite stressful and you have to
get all this legal advice andyou're dealing with money and
international transfers and youhave this goal now to then
(19:00):
renovate these properties.
So, yeah, really ambitious.
But it also sounds like you are.
You know you are beingsupported.
So how does that feel to havepeople locally in Japan say, yes
, we want you to save thisproperty, and then you have
people within Japan helping you,and then you have these
investors outside of Japan.
(19:21):
It must be very gratifying forpeople to support your vision.
Speaker 1 (19:27):
Right, right, I'm just feeling so grateful, and
this project is not just aboutmoney.
So a lot of investors mentionedabout our project as like
creative investments, so they'relooking for more returns, like
beyond the financial returns.
For example, they can get intothe activity of like renovating
a temple or creating the stonemade stairs with the locals, and
(19:51):
they're keen to have manyupdates with pictures from us.
So, because our project is notrelying on something financial
only, there are many people whoare willing to support us, not
in the financial way, toactually, the lawyer that we
work with is.
He offered us the pro bono workfor us too, because there is
(20:14):
too many things that we need toconsult with and the fee is
going to be too much for thestartup, so he offers some pro
bono.
Yeah, he'll work for us.
Speaker 2 (20:22):
So, yeah, yeah, it's because the color of the project
I think that we're working onyes, and I know you and your
team, especially monica, whoI'll probably be interviewing as
well.
You know you spend a lot oftime communicating with your
investors.
You have almost, I think,weekly meetings to update
(20:44):
everyone.
So there is this strong senseof community, too, behind what
you're doing, and you get peopleto even your investors to
volunteer and they have someinput.
So, yeah, it's a really specialproject and vision.
So let's talk about the firsthistoric property you have saved
(21:05):
.
Speaker 1 (21:06):
Sure, sure, sure.
So the first project is inNatchi area.
Not many people are aware ofthis place, but this place has
been having many internationaltravellers coming in as well,
since it has the world heritagecalled Kumano Kodo, one of the
pilgrimage routes in Japan.
An interesting thing about thispilgrimage route is that the
(21:28):
route itself is connecting threereligions in the area.
One is Buddhism and one isShintoism, and also Kumano local
religion, which is I don'tthink any other place in the
world has something, some placelike that, to connect you.
You know three differentreligions, and ryokonji temple
is the one of the temple that welaunched with our first project
(21:52):
.
This has been selected as one ofthe tangible cultural heritage
in japan four or five years ago,but since there were only four
supporters, we call called themDanka, who donate money to the
temple, and that's how thetemple used to sustain back in
the days.
But now there are not manypeople who can make donations
(22:14):
and also the role of the templehas been changed in the
community, so there are onlyfour and they all are in 80s and
90s.
So in 10 or 20 years later thenthere will be no one who can
donate or take care of thetemple.
So they're looking for somefinancial support and also
someone or some business modelthat can sustain the temple
(22:35):
itself.
So we were introduced those arelocal, community to us by one
of the chief priest monk whotakes care of the temples in the
region, and that's how we gotconnected and we kicked off our
project.
Yeah, and there are so manytemples like that in japan.
I heard like one third of thetemple, which is uh, 70 000
(22:57):
temple in japan, are abandonedand in the same situation like
ryogonji temple.
Speaker 2 (23:03):
Yeah, it's astounding .
I remember I mean, I thinkmaybe some of our audience might
have heard the term akia, likeabandoned house or empty house,
but now there's akidera, likeempty temple or abandoned temple
.
So I guess one of the otherbeautiful aspects of this is
(23:24):
you're also maintaining a rolefor the, the priest of these
temples, and they have a placeto you know, practice their
religion and influence othersand and maintain their religion,
and I know you have a priestyou're working with.
(23:46):
So, yeah, do you want to touchon that a little bit?
Speaker 1 (23:50):
Sure.
So he's really a young chiefpriest monk.
His name is Nishiyama-san andhe used to be an English teacher
in Tokyo for two one to twoyears and he's a DJ as well.
He has really interesting faces.
He's now back in the Natchiarea because his family he comes
from the Buddhist family and hewas the only child, I think,
(24:15):
who can inherit his temple andhe turned actually the temple
into the vacation rental as well, like for his own temple, and
he's building a sauna within thetemple for the you know new way
of meditation, like combinedwith the Zen practice.
And because he has been doingpretty interesting things, a lot
(24:35):
of like priests around himstart like relying on him that
like can we take, can you takecare of, like our temple and all
.
And now he's taking care ofmore than like six temples and
it's going to be like 10 or 20temples in the future.
So the reason why he's workingwith us is that him just one
person cannot do all himself andalso looking for people who can
(24:59):
inherit the temple.
It's going to be a big problemin Japan as well.
So he wants to make the job aslike interesting as like working
other industry.
So that's his approach.
So by working with us he couldmake that aspect, enhance the
aspect of like working as apriest.
It's going to be, you know,interesting job to do, yeah well
(25:23):
, maybe that's what it takes.
Speaker 2 (25:25):
You need a fresh approach, a modern approach yeah
like he's.
You know he's had some lifeexperience teaching english and
being a dj and maybe that alsowould appeal to foreigners
something fresh and unique, aswell as combining, you know,
tradition and ancient wisdom.
(25:46):
So yeah, it's amazing howyou've got all these different
people involved the priests, thelocals, investors and your own
team, right.
So pretty amazing.
So, for the people who rent theproperty in the future, what
(26:06):
could they do in the local area?
So maybe in a year or a yearand a half from now, maybe one
of our listeners would like togo and support you too.
Oh, yeah hopefully, I'lldefinitely want to visit.
Yes, so this is is it Irokawa?
Yeah, Irokawa.
Speaker 1 (26:25):
Yeah, yeah, the name itself doesn't really actually
exist in the map because it gotdisappeared by merged with
another town, but locals stillhas the identity to call
themselves as Irokawa.
So it means it has a reallystrong connection and identity
in the area.
But it doesn't mean thatthey're pretty exclusive to
(26:47):
people coming from outside ofthe city.
Actually, more than half of thepeople who live in Irokawa are
coming from outside, like thosepeople who relocated from the
town city.
So they're pretty open toanyone.
Yeah, and their specialty issomething special about them
them is they are reallyindependent living style.
(27:09):
For example, they each of thehousehold has their own farm and
rice field and also they sourcetheir daily water from the
river.
So they have the system likewhere they clean up, like every
day they take roll, like theylike they take turns to clean
the you know all the utilityevery day.
So it's pretty interesting,yeah.
So we are thinking to offer thefarm-to-table kind of dinner
(27:33):
that visitors can go to theirfarm and pick up some you know
fresh vegetable to make it forthe dinner salad and they can
take the fresh like egg from theyou know chicken house and you
know and use it for the dinner,and that's one of the
experiences that we were talkingwith the local.
Another experience will be wehave the English-speaking chief
(27:53):
priest monk, so we can offer theZen experience in the morning.
Ryokonji has the stunning view.
It's on the hilltop and there'sa stone wall that you can
actually sit on and you can seethe whole village from that
stone.
So doing the Zen meditation onthe hilltop and there's a stone
wall that you can actually siton and you can see the whole
village from that stone so doingthe Zen meditation on the stone
will be one experience.
And this experience issomething that we did when we
(28:14):
went to the Daitaiji.
Daitaiji is another temple thatthe chief priest monk is doing
a vacation rental.
He made the morning porridgeand we ate it in the zen you
know monk way.
So he told me, like, how to eatit in a training way and he
told me some you know teaching,you know.
So they are some of theexperiences that we are thinking
(28:36):
of.
Yeah, but staying in that areaitself is going to be, uh, like
enough experience and we canconnect with, like people who
live there as well.
Speaker 2 (28:46):
Yeah, I think just the benefit of going somewhere
so remote and so surrounded bynature, and just that alone
would be very powerful.
It is.
But, also contributing andsustaining our community.
And yeah, maybe having time formeditation and reflection and
(29:08):
yeah, it all sounds reallyinspiring.
So another moving part of allof this is, once the property is
available for rental, who willmanage it once it's ready?
Speaker 1 (29:22):
sure.
So there's the company.
We have the candidate companiesthat our owners can make a vote
for.
One of the top candidates iscalled ShareWing.
They run a project calledOterastei Oterastei meaning
simply temple staying in English.
So they operate a lodgingservice in a temple more than 11
(29:44):
or 12 in Japan at this point oftime.
Yeah, and they're the one whoconnected us with Chief Priest
Nishiyama-san and that's how wegot connected with the Ryogonju
temple.
So they have successful casesin other temples, so that we are
thanking them as a topcandidate.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (30:05):
Awesome and they have experience and so very likely
they can find or connect you topeople who want to have this.
I guess, yeah, temple stay.
Speaker 1 (30:17):
Right, right, exactly .
Speaker 2 (30:20):
Yeah.
So you are definitely dealingwith so many moving parts.
So this kind of makes me yeah,it kind of does make me think of
Ikigai, because, as you know,ikigai doesn't just mean, you
know, being happy.
Ikigai involves something youcare about or pursuing something
meaningful to you.
(30:40):
But this also sounds like akokorozashi, because it's really
ambitious.
It's really really ambitious.
So, yeah, this business, is itboth your ikigai and your
kokorozashi?
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (30:56):
I see, I see it is.
Yeah, it is.
Because if it's not, it doesn'tcomply with ikigai or
kokorozashi then I wouldn't havedone it.
I think Because, as you said,there's so many I'm waiting for
and when I talk to the investor,like all words come from my
heart.
And that has to come from myheart Because, as I said, it's
(31:18):
not about numbers, just thenumbers.
And ROI, that we project is nottoo high compared to other
countries.
If they just leave their moneyin the bank, the interest rate
in japan is pretty low.
So the roi project is prettyhigh in japan, but, for example,
the company countries in hongkong and the interest rate is
pretty high.
(31:38):
So roi doesn't really convincethe investor.
You know that the only reasonit's not going to be, the only
reason for the investor to buy.
So those emotional part, thatthe conviction part, it is the
plays a main role and that hasto come from my heart.
Yeah, and I come from thewarehouse running family.
(32:01):
So my dad owns a company thatruns the warehouse and he is
actually looking for someone toinherit the business.
And there are so many peoplewho are looking for someone to
inherit the business, especiallyin a local area of japan.
I come from osakasa, but thereare so many business owners
(32:22):
looking for people who caninherit it.
So this is not just the problemwith akia or Akidera or you
know, like local area of Japan,but also this is going to be the
problem in many industry ofJapan.
And how I see this project iswe are not only saving those
properties but more of likecreating a system where the
(32:43):
individual can gather.
Those individual doesn't matterwhere they come from, as long
as they have kokorozashi for theproperty or the local they can
contribute.
So I think that comply with myown personal problem that comes
from my family as well.
Speaker 2 (33:02):
So, yeah, yeah, even my, my in-laws.
So they make my father-in-lawand my brother-in-law make
Shinoyaki pottery.
Okay, wow, yeah, and they'refourth generation and it's very
likely that my brother-in-law'schildren won't pursue pottery
(33:28):
you know, which is fair enough.
But yeah, it is quite sad tothink there's a good chance they
won't pass on this knowledgeand tradition of pottery making,
this specific type of potterymaking, to someone, and yeah, it
will eventually end.
And yeah, it will eventuallyend.
(33:49):
So, yeah, japan has this tragicproblem, I guess, of losing its
culture, losing craft,personship or just properties or
businesses, because I guesscapitalism came in and stole
everyone.
It said, oh, it's more importantto make money and live in
(34:10):
cities and be rich right, rightand now I guess we're seeing the
result of that of you know oneor two generations of doing that
I think so.
Speaker 1 (34:21):
And some people said, like you know, like there are
many like mna companies that cansave your business, but it's
not about it.
You know, like those local thatwe talk to, especially from the
ryokonji temple project, ismore of like they're not just
looking for people who caninherit it, more of like they
can, if they can like, trust theperson, or you know that comes
(34:42):
from the emotional part of it,not the monetary part only.
So that has been a problem, andthe same situation is for my
family too.
Speaker 2 (34:50):
So yeah, yeah, there's almost a yeah, the
strong emotional component,almost like a spiritual
component you really have tocare about maintaining.
Why do you want to maintainthis building or property or
business?
Because it is yeah it'simportant, it has value and it
goes beyond money and justopportunity.
(35:11):
There's this intrinsic valueand it kind of connects to one's
spirit yeah so let's talk aboutthe next property and maybe we
can find you some investors.
So this is a property ourlisteners could invest in.
So, yeah, let's touch on thatproperty.
Speaker 1 (35:32):
Sure.
So next property is not thetemple, but it's an interesting
property that comes with 7,000square meter forest land and we
call it the bamboo forest houseand it's located in Hayama
forest house and it's located inhayama.
(35:53):
For those who don't know abouthayama, it's considered as one
of the top summer vacation likevilla resort place that is
popular for japanese peopleespecially.
But the interesting thing isthat this hayama area is
recognized as the imperial villaplace, since the imperial
family has one villa in thelocation and one of the beach
it's called Ishiki Beach isrecognized as one of the top
(36:15):
beach worldwide.
So it has a beautiful natureand also with the mountain and
beautiful ocean, and it's prettyaccessible from Tokyo too Just
one hour train ride.
There's a straight train fromthe Tokyo station to to just one
hour train ride.
Yeah, there's a straight trainfrom the Tokyo station to
Tsuzushi station and you canexplore the area from that
(36:35):
station.
Yeah, the Bambi Forest Housesince it has the 7,000 square
meter forest land, there's somuch space that we can play with
.
We're thinking to have the openair baths and also the sauna
and also yoga deck, because thishouse itself is so separated
from the main road of the area.
You need to actually hike inthe mountain road for about
(37:00):
three to four minutes, so onceyou're into the space you won't
hear any city noise or you'reall separated.
Yeah, you're all like separatedfrom the city area.
So it's interesting.
Yeah, not like temple, butbecause of that we have so much
space that we can play with.
I think yeah yeah, soundsexciting.
Speaker 2 (37:21):
You have this opportunity to get creative and
it kind of ties into I guess itties into wellness tourism as
well.
And this year I attended theWellness Tourism Expo in Tokyo.
Okay, and yeah, it looks likeit's a huge area of growth and
(37:42):
you know, there's glamping andall these kind of high-end
opportunities or staying at aryokan.
So what you're offering isquite, quite unique um, getting
away from it all and being innature and you know, again,
saving a property, so that mustbe fun.
To plan these properties andthink, oh, what are we going to
(38:04):
do with this property?
And have an outside hot springbath or a yoga deck or a sauna.
So you, must enjoy that aspectof the business very much.
Speaker 1 (38:16):
It is.
Yeah, it is very interesting.
Yeah, to work with a localconstructor.
They give us many interestingyou know ideas that also, we
listen to our owners as well andwe sometimes bring the
potential investor to the placeand they, of course, give us,
like many you know interestingthought, and one of them was
actually a tattoo artist thatshe used to be a tattoo artist
(38:38):
and she gave us an idea of whatabout like, how do you say like
craving the bamboo with the zenword.
So while we have the you knowopen air bath in the yoga deck,
maybe like looking at the bambooand it has that zen you know
like teaching word, and allcould be interesting.
Speaker 2 (38:58):
Yeah, yeah, yeah yeah , it's amazing what you can do
with bamboo so using it as aalmost like a scroll or a
teaching tool.
That's a cool idea.
Yeah, okay.
So, tamaki, how can peoplesupport your cause?
Because, if they want to, theycould invest in the bamboo
(39:20):
forest house or other futureproperties sure.
Speaker 1 (39:23):
So, yeah, biggest support will be investing in us
because we're very early stagefor our project as a whole a
planet as a whole.
So it's been pretty difficultto reach out to those people who
are really interested in us,since we are based in Japan.
(39:43):
So, nick, thank you so much forthis opportunity to hear, I
think, helping us a lot to reachout to those who could be
interested in Upland itself andalso gaining that trust.
It's going to be pretty hardfor us too, because this year,
as I said, like based in Japan,it's pretty hard for people to
know that, like if we're a legitcompany or not.
(40:05):
And, yeah, we have installedsome tools, like for our website
called like Trust Pilot, andpeople like start writing that
review for us.
So getting our credibility byposting about us and, you know,
giving some review for us, it'sgoing to be a big help as well.
Yeah, and we appreciate anyfeedbacks.
(40:25):
If you have any feedbacks, thenplease send us like any
messages on inquiry.
I check all the messages.
Yeah, we have.
So yeah, that really surprisedme that you told me in
conversation that some peoplethought it was a scam and like
it's too good to be true, and Iwas really shocked because I
just thought well, yeah, even Iactually have the you know my me
(40:48):
myself like talking about theproject on my website and I do
the one-on-one call with thosepeople who are interested in
having a call with us.
Some people call that like thevideo itself is AI generated and
having a call with the founderis like sounds like a scam.
Even though they don't you know, they don't book it, they call
(41:10):
it, so yeah yeah, that's strange, I mean.
Speaker 2 (41:13):
I mean maybe because that's rare, because you
probably would think, or thefounder would be, you know, too
busy to talk to me, so but tothink it's ai generated, you're
definitely not ai generated.
Speaker 1 (41:24):
I've met you in person and they can hear my
Japanese accent and you know myEnglish.
I would have done better ifit's like AI generated.
Speaker 2 (41:35):
No.
So real person, real businessand a business or a project
definitely worth supporting.
And yeah, again, I'm justamazed Like this is so ambitious
and so challenging, so veryinspiring.
So it's a real joy to have youon the podcast, and we'll have
Monica, your community manager,as well.
(41:58):
And, yeah, I'd love to supportevery property you do.
So maybe we'll have you onoften.
So let's end with Ikigai.
So I think, obviously, savingthese culturally important and
historical properties is tied toyour ikigai.
Do you want to go deeper intothat?
Speaker 1 (42:19):
sure.
So ikigai, I think, in japanesehas many meanings and I try to
think that like deeper level ofikigai.
And the moment that I feel thejoy for myself is that when I
see someone maximizing theirpotential it could be someone or
the property or the area.
(42:40):
I don't mean not only about theproperty.
I think the same for, forexample, my children and also my
team member as well and when Isee those potential that has not
been maximized, then I feelreally, really frustrated.
I think it's too much forsomeone else to think like that
for someone, but I honestly feelfrustrated about it.
(43:02):
Yeah, and for myself too.
And for this Planet Zao case, Isee many cases that it's not
maximizing the potential, it'sbecause they're closed and they
don't really see the opportunity.
That's being outside of thearea or outside of the community
.
So, as I said, the ikigai orkokorazashi for the Planet Zao
(43:25):
itself is to unlock thepotential, and that comply with
my ikigai as well.
So, um, there's a huge fans youknow japan abroad and we are
connecting the opportunity withthe local community or the
property that has the so muchpotential in it.
Speaker 2 (43:40):
So yeah, no, it's really inspiring.
And yeah it's.
I guess if we open eyes, we cansee all this opportunity.
And then I guess you've got to.
You know, believe in yourselfthat you can do something about
it.
So that's pretty cool.
So, moving away from this veryambitious project, what about
(44:05):
your other ikigai?
You know your personal or yourprivate ikigai?
Speaker 1 (44:10):
Private ikigai.
I'm not really able to do itrecently since I have one in
three years old kids runningaround me.
And I don't really have theprivate time myself, but I like
to do the you know, explore myspiritual journey kind of thing.
Yeah, I like to have my youknow explore my like spiritual
journey kind of thing.
Yeah, I like to have like mypersonal time for like just
(44:33):
meditating and I used to do thesorry, I forgot the word not
eating, like eating and drinkingfor a while.
Fasting, yeah, fasting, yeah,fasting helped me a lot to think
deeply.
And yeah, also, I like to do todo, to practice all like you
know spiritual journey kind ofthings.
But for the yeah past, like twoto three years, I was not like
(44:56):
able to do it and able to domore.
Speaker 2 (44:58):
But yeah, that's my other like, if you guys to do
yeah yes, well, you certainlyhave your hands full with your
children and this project, but,uh, yeah, maybe you need that
spiritual journey.
Yeah, balance yourself yeah, Ithink so yeah, I mean, ambition
is like a double edged sword.
It's really inspiring, givesyou motivation, but if you're
(45:21):
not careful you can get burnedout for sure yeah so how can
people you Where's the bestplace to support what you're
doing?
Speaker 1 (45:31):
Sure, so maybe follow me on LinkedIn is one of the
tools, and also Substack.
I'm not really active as muchas I want to do, but I will
constantly write about theproject and also myself on
Substack for a long post.
I recently deleted my ex andinstagram, so linkedin and
(45:55):
substack could be one and whatabout the planet dao website?
Sure, so you can uh sign up forour newsletter.
Speaker 2 (46:03):
We have the newsletter subscribing button on
the website so you can sign upfor that awesome, so I'll
include all those links in theshow notes, thank you, and maybe
we can also add some photos ofthe properties to the web page
as well to promote what you'redoing.
So, yeah, really inspiring whatyou're doing.
(46:25):
It was great to meet you lastmonth and I look forward to the
new properties you bring to lifein future.
Thank you, tamaki, for yourtime today.
Speaker 1 (46:37):
Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 2 (46:39):
My pleasure, bye.
Speaker 1 (46:41):
Bye, thank you.
Ikigai, I think, in Japanese has many meanings, and
I try to think that like deeperlevel of ikigai, and the moment
that I feel the joy for myselfis that when I see someone
maximizing their potential itcould be someone or the property
or the area.
I don't mean not only about theproperty.
(00:21):
I think the same for, forexample, my children and also my
team member as well, and when Isee those potential that has
not been maximized, then I feelreally, really frustrated.
I think it's too much forsomeone else to think like that,
for someone, but I honestlyfeel frustrated about it, and
(00:42):
for myself too.
And, uh, for this planet though.
Uh case, I see many cases thatis not maximizing the potential.
It's because they're closed andthey don't really see the
opportunity.
That's being outside of thearea or outside of the community
.
So, as I said, the you knowikigai or kokorazashi for the
(01:03):
planets ourselves is to unlockthe potential, and that can play
with my ikigai as well.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
Find your ikigai at ikigaitribecom.
My guest today on episode 93Find your Ikigai at
ikigaitribecom.
My guest today on episode 93 ofthe Ikigai podcast is Tamaki
Nishimura, founder and CEO ofPlanet Labs, an organization
that specializes in transformingiconic properties across Japan
(01:42):
into unique vacation rentals,with a focus on cultural
preservation and fosteringpartnerships with local
communities.
It's a pleasure to have you on,tamaki.
Speaker 1 (01:53):
Thank you.
Thank you for the perfectintroduction.
Speaker 2 (01:58):
It's good to see you again.
Of course, we met in personlast month.
You treated me to lunch, sothat was yeah, really special to
meet you and we have ourintroduction to thank Steve.
Steve Bouchamp, a friend ofmine, also a podcast guest, who
told me all about Planet Dow, sowe have two names here.
(02:22):
But first would you like togive us a bit of background
about yourself?
Speaker 1 (02:28):
Sure, so my name is Tamaki.
I was born and raised in Osakaslash Kyoto, but I'm currently
living in Kanagawa Prefecture,which is our next prefecture to
Tokyo, because I have two kids,so I decided not to live in the
city center.
We love going camping and alsowe live in kind of like nature,
you know space.
(02:48):
So throughout my career I wasin startup companies.
So first business that we wereworking on was building the
tourism platform just like youknow Airbnb experience we have
for global.
But we were building theJapanese version of airbnb with
the entity dokomo.
That's one of the biggesttelecom companies in japan.
(03:09):
Yeah, but covid hit so we hadto close the business.
The business was like focusingon the local experience to offer
to especially an internationaltraveler.
But during the downtime I hadto kind of shift my interest to
other spaces.
And crypto was pretty big inJapan.
You know NFT and Bitcoin andall but I wasn't too excited
(03:32):
about like Bitcoin price, likegoing up and down and stuff.
I was more excited about theconcept of DAO, so connecting
individuals to work for the samegoal together.
So I was keen to connect those,that concept of DAO and what I
was doing.
And the Planet DAO is the nextbusiness that I came up with.
Yeah, so it's been half a yearsince I launched.
(03:56):
By counting the time that wewere like building before the
launch, it's been a year, yeah,wow.
Speaker 2 (04:04):
So that's steady progress when I found out about
your website and what you'redoing.
So, yeah, let's focus on thename a bit more.
So there's two names?
I think you're.
Is it like a parent company'sPlanet Labs, but Planet Dow is
the, I guess, the brand.
Speaker 1 (04:22):
Right, right, you're right.
Speaker 2 (04:24):
Yeah, would you like to touch on why you chose Planet
Dao?
Speaker 1 (04:28):
Right.
So for the product-wise, asNick explained in the first
introduction, we specialize intotransforming the properties in
Japan, especially the temples,or those properties that
individuals cannot buy because,for example, the property comes
with a big forest and that comeswith the farmland.
(04:48):
So individuals need thefinancial support to transform
the use of US land intosomething.
Or, for example, the temple,just one individual or one
corporate cannot own it becausethe local community has so much,
you know, affection for theproperty so they cannot just,
you know, give up on theownership of it.
(05:10):
So we're those properties, arethat kind of properties that we
are taking care of.
So a reason why I name itplanet is that the planet earth
is like no one owns it, right so, and those properties that we
are touching is on that kind ofproperties that one, or like one
, individual or corporate justown it.
So I named Planet because it'sgoing to be the transforming the
(05:36):
norm and concept of theownership into something new.
So we will have multipleindividuals to own the land or
the property and it's not goingto be just one ownership owned
by that community only, but alsowe have the community with
investor slash, localcommunities slash, you know,
like town and cities.
(05:57):
So that's why I named planetlike that and I put dao.
A lot of people ask me what DAOmeans and is that the word come
from like Chinese or somethinglike that, and I'm like no, no,
it's not.
So DAO stands for DecentralizedAutonomous Organization, so
(06:19):
these terms originally come fromcrypto blockchain project
mainly, and our idea is, know,global community utilizing the
crypto token.
That was our first intention,but we decided not to for now
because not a lot of people arepretty used to, you know, like,
using the crypto wallet andstuff, so we decided not to.
Then, also, the law in Japanwith the crypto has been pretty
(06:40):
strict right now.
So right now, we are not usingcrypto token in anything strict
right now.
So right now, we are not usingcrypto token in anything but for
the future, since we have a lotof people internationally.
The currency transaction hasbeen a problem, a big issue for
us.
So utilizing the crypto it'sgoing to be some solution that
will enhance our, you know, likea project.
Speaker 2 (07:01):
So that's what we're looking at yeah, I think we
should point out that you'reessentially you're saving these
iconic properties, or theseproperties that have this
immense value in terms ofhistoric value, cultural value,
and they're very much tied to, Iguess, the local population.
(07:21):
They are often in remote areasor in towns that are at risk of
dying.
So what you're doing is reallyinspiring.
I think it's really importantand you're giving as you said,
you're giving people.
Basically, it sounds likeyou're really giving people
outside of japan an opportunityto invest in and kind of be a
(07:44):
part owner not really a partowner, but someone who
contribute to the longevity ofthese properties and save them
which is, you know, reallyinspiring but, at the same time,
I think this is, you know,really challenging, and we'll
talk about the challenges you'vegone through.
So, you come across as someonewho's, you know, very
(08:06):
entrepreneurial, ambitious, andyou know you're still quite
young and you've got two kids.
I kind of think, wow, what wasI doing in my early or mid-20s?
Nothing like what you're doing.
So it's kind of amazing.
But how did this particularproject come about and what was
(08:26):
the reason or the inspirationfor you to start planet down?
Speaker 1 (08:31):
sure.
So, um, that comes from mypassion in the first place,
because at my previous projectwhat I was doing was basically,
you know, like showinginternational tourists not only
the face of j.
I was like showing more deeperside of Japan by connecting
those local artisans or localpeople with the international
(08:51):
tourists and I just loved themoment that people kind of like
falling in love in Japan, youknow.
So, by connecting those localartisans to international
tourists, they always give themthe new perspective of seeing
things.
So what they what they I meanis that local artisans are doing
for everyday thing that's beennew to them, new to the
(09:11):
international tourists.
So they're like wow, like whatyou're doing is so great and
things will actually give theenergy and inspiration for the
local artisans.
So they kind of gain like theirconfidence and all.
So I just love to see themoment.
Speaker 2 (09:24):
Yeah, I can relate to that.
As you know, I had a retreat myfirst retreat this year and it
was similar to what you'resaying this focus on exposing
foreigners to, yeah, uniquecraftspersonship or unique
places away from all the touristsites.
And we looked at.
Something that was reallyinteresting was Aizome, so
(09:45):
indigo dyeing, and we foundsomeone in gujo hachiman who was
like 16th generation of this400 year old business and, you
know, still doing the indigodyeing and making products but
also holding workshops and, yeah, it was really special to kind
of have a taste of thistradition and see how everyone
(10:09):
responded to it.
And, yeah, this owner and thiscrafts man has no direct heir,
he has no children and so he'sgoing to I think he's one of his
nephews or nieces will takeover the business.
And yeah, it was a major concern, like this business that's been
(10:32):
around for 400 years was atrisk of, yeah, sort of dying.
So I think that's a really,really cool idea to try and
expose foreigners to theseunknown or unique aspects of
culture, right, that are at riskof dying because, just because
(10:53):
the way japan is, I guess, withmost young people moving to
cities and losing a lot, so it'sreally, yeah, really special, I
think what you're doingespecially those like japanese.
Speaker 1 (11:04):
Young people think like, what they're doing is not
really cool, you know, um, soit's really.
I don't know how to say it inenglish, but I feel it's yeah
it's a tragic loss ofopportunity, right right.
Yeah, it was an opportunity.
Speaker 2 (11:20):
I feel that too and so I'm trying to work out.
Have you always had this in you, this desire to preserve
Japanese culture, or did youhave some personal experience
that made you think oh well, myculture is beautiful, it is
unique and I should do somethingto save it, right?
Speaker 1 (11:43):
That comes from all my experience from like when I
was running a business of youknow creating a local
experiences.
I used to work with the geishastoo.
Their business has been prettydownside too because their main
is to serve, you know sake andyou know go to the banquet party
that the Japanese, you knowsalary men, does.
But it's been pretty downside,especially after the COVID hit
(12:06):
right.
So we were creating the eventshow with them to show,
especially for the internationaltraveler.
So I knew all the culture, partof Japan from the experiences
and I realized that a lot oflike, especially young
generation, wants to go to Tokyoor city area for looking for
some opportunity, especially forlike technology side of it.
(12:26):
But I realized that the Japan isnot going to be economically
like highly growing, like asmuch as like it does in the
States or, you know, in China orany other countries that is
hitting the economical growth.
So what Japan holds issomething that money cannot buy.
I think and reason why so manyum traveler, international
(12:49):
travelers, are coming to japanis that they want to see the
culture and history and natureor maybe instruct infrastructure
, like we have really good umtrain system and all.
No, that's what they're comingto Japan for, but we are not
actively preserving those partsof Japan, because it's really
hard to see the financial value,you know, of the cultural
(13:12):
history.
So I really feel kind of aresponsibility to preserve those
bits of Japan for the future,because without taking any
action for that then we will beactively losing those cultures
and history.
So yeah, that's my interest andI'm also connected to Ikigai.
Speaker 2 (13:33):
I would say yeah, it's a beautiful Ikigai and it
does surprise me that, because Imean, there's so much tourism
in Japan even maybe we'rehearing a lot about over-tourism
obviously to all the famoustourist spots and, yeah, it
(13:53):
surprises me that government orlocal government is so out of
touch of what a good chunk ofwhat foreigners want to
experience.
Is this tradition, is thisculture, is this history they
can't experience really anywhereelse.
And we hear these terriblestories of local councils
concreting coastline or makingall these weird buildings and
(14:18):
not realising that, oh, it's thetemples, or it's?
The shrines or it's thesehistoric buildings that people
would love to visit or stay in.
Right, right and so yeah,you're providing that
opportunity and you've started.
I mean, this is early days foryou it is yeah, and it's highly
(14:40):
ambitious.
Speaker 1 (14:40):
So what is the vision or the kokorozashi of planet
tau, because I I think, wow,this could be endless, because
there could be, there'sliterally thousands of
properties, to say right I'llsay, to unlock the hidden
potential that we always see orthe community has, and always
(15:04):
the power of, you know,collective purpose that we bring
from the you know overseas,especially Because we are not
going to be playing the mainrole in the local area or the
properties.
So property or the localcommunity comes first.
In the case of like Wakayama,the first project we did because
we had the local communityactively involved in and also
(15:24):
connecting us to the localpeople and they were wishing for
this project to be successful.
That's why we succeeded infunding the project and moving
to the renovation.
So having the local peopleplaying the main role for each
project is very crucial for us.
That's how I see it.
So what we can do is just tounlock the potential itself.
(15:46):
Yeah, that's how I see.
Speaker 2 (15:49):
Yeah, so this is quite challenging.
It is You're trying to save aproperty.
You work with locals, so you'revery respectful to their needs.
And then you renovate theseproperties, but you maintain
their historical value.
So you're not really changingthe structure, you're just sort
of reforming so that people canthen stay there.
(16:10):
So yeah, many moving parts andyou know several stakeholders,
so how has the journey been sofar?
Speaker 1 (16:22):
so at first we launched our first project in
this year, may, and we actuallyspent almost a year to structure
like a law related structure,then you know, business model
itself, that comply with thecurrent Japanese law.
And that was a quite toughjourney because our product
include the real estate law,then also security law in Japan.
(16:43):
As I said, that has been prettystrict in Japan, but we got
good luck actually to find theright lawyer that knows about
all the real estate law and alsothe crypto and security law in
Japan and he was not tooconservative so he could give us
a good idea that complies withwhat we want to do and also the
(17:05):
current law.
So that was really important tohave the right lawyer for us.
And another concern for us wasour vision.
Is was very, very the concernbut luckily, after we launched
(17:30):
it, um, we had so many people,enough investor to reach our
goal of the fundraising.
So, yeah, we had, I think, liketwo luck that brought our
project to be successful and,surprisingly, 80% of our
investors come from outside ofJapan.
That was pretty unexpected forus.
(17:53):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:54):
Yeah, I guess it gives you a clear indication of
how much foreigners love thisspecial aspect of Japan, this
culture and what they canexperience or gain by going
there.
So I guess they're invested, uh, you know, financially, but
they're also invested, you know,personally, like, oh, this is
(18:14):
something we're far protecting.
And yeah, when I heard about itand I saw the prop the first
property you were saving I waswas like, oh wow, this is
amazing.
Speaker 1 (18:25):
So yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:26):
I guess I purchased one share too.
Speaker 1 (18:29):
Thank you.
Thank you so much, I'm reallyinterested in your future
properties.
Speaker 2 (18:37):
Touched on your properties.
But, yeah, it seems you'reinvesting so much to get this up
and running.
So imagine it's, you know,quite stressful and you have to
get all this legal advice andyou're dealing with money and
international transfers and youhave this goal now to then
(19:00):
renovate these properties.
So, yeah, really ambitious.
But it also sounds like you are.
You know you are beingsupported.
So how does that feel to havepeople locally in Japan say, yes
, we want you to save thisproperty, and then you have
people within Japan helping you,and then you have these
investors outside of Japan.
(19:21):
It must be very gratifying forpeople to support your vision.
Speaker 1 (19:27):
Right, right, I'm just feeling so grateful, and
this project is not just aboutmoney.
So a lot of investors mentionedabout our project as like
creative investments, so they'relooking for more returns, like
beyond the financial returns.
For example, they can get intothe activity of like renovating
a temple or creating the stonemade stairs with the locals, and
(19:51):
they're keen to have manyupdates with pictures from us.
So, because our project is notrelying on something financial
only, there are many people whoare willing to support us, not
in the financial way, toactually, the lawyer that we
work with is.
He offered us the pro bono workfor us too, because there is
(20:14):
too many things that we need toconsult with and the fee is
going to be too much for thestartup, so he offers some pro
bono.
Yeah, he'll work for us.
Speaker 2 (20:22):
So, yeah, yeah, it's because the color of the project
I think that we're working onyes, and I know you and your
team, especially monica, whoI'll probably be interviewing as
well.
You know you spend a lot oftime communicating with your
investors.
You have almost, I think,weekly meetings to update
(20:44):
everyone.
So there is this strong senseof community, too, behind what
you're doing, and you get peopleto even your investors to
volunteer and they have someinput.
So, yeah, it's a really specialproject and vision.
So let's talk about the firsthistoric property you have saved
(21:05):
.
Speaker 1 (21:06):
Sure, sure, sure.
So the first project is inNatchi area.
Not many people are aware ofthis place, but this place has
been having many internationaltravellers coming in as well,
since it has the world heritagecalled Kumano Kodo, one of the
pilgrimage routes in Japan.
An interesting thing about thispilgrimage route is that the
(21:28):
route itself is connecting threereligions in the area.
One is Buddhism and one isShintoism, and also Kumano local
religion, which is I don'tthink any other place in the
world has something, some placelike that, to connect you.
You know three differentreligions, and ryokonji temple
is the one of the temple that welaunched with our first project
(21:52):
.
This has been selected as one ofthe tangible cultural heritage
in japan four or five years ago,but since there were only four
supporters, we call called themDanka, who donate money to the
temple, and that's how thetemple used to sustain back in
the days.
But now there are not manypeople who can make donations
(22:14):
and also the role of the templehas been changed in the
community, so there are onlyfour and they all are in 80s and
90s.
So in 10 or 20 years later thenthere will be no one who can
donate or take care of thetemple.
So they're looking for somefinancial support and also
someone or some business modelthat can sustain the temple
(22:35):
itself.
So we were introduced those arelocal, community to us by one
of the chief priest monk whotakes care of the temples in the
region, and that's how we gotconnected and we kicked off our
project.
Yeah, and there are so manytemples like that in japan.
I heard like one third of thetemple, which is uh, 70 000
(22:57):
temple in japan, are abandonedand in the same situation like
ryogonji temple.
Speaker 2 (23:03):
Yeah, it's astounding .
I remember I mean, I thinkmaybe some of our audience might
have heard the term akia, likeabandoned house or empty house,
but now there's akidera, likeempty temple or abandoned temple
.
So I guess one of the otherbeautiful aspects of this is
(23:24):
you're also maintaining a rolefor the, the priest of these
temples, and they have a placeto you know, practice their
religion and influence othersand and maintain their religion,
and I know you have a priestyou're working with.
(23:46):
So, yeah, do you want to touchon that a little bit?
Speaker 1 (23:50):
Sure.
So he's really a young chiefpriest monk.
His name is Nishiyama-san andhe used to be an English teacher
in Tokyo for two one to twoyears and he's a DJ as well.
He has really interesting faces.
He's now back in the Natchiarea because his family he comes
from the Buddhist family and hewas the only child, I think,
(24:15):
who can inherit his temple andhe turned actually the temple
into the vacation rental as well, like for his own temple, and
he's building a sauna within thetemple for the you know new way
of meditation, like combinedwith the Zen practice.
And because he has been doingpretty interesting things, a lot
(24:35):
of like priests around himstart like relying on him that
like can we take, can you takecare of, like our temple and all
.
And now he's taking care ofmore than like six temples and
it's going to be like 10 or 20temples in the future.
So the reason why he's workingwith us is that him just one
person cannot do all himself andalso looking for people who can
(24:59):
inherit the temple.
It's going to be a big problemin Japan as well.
So he wants to make the job aslike interesting as like working
other industry.
So that's his approach.
So by working with us he couldmake that aspect, enhance the
aspect of like working as apriest.
It's going to be, you know,interesting job to do, yeah well
(25:23):
, maybe that's what it takes.
Speaker 2 (25:25):
You need a fresh approach, a modern approach yeah
like he's.
You know he's had some lifeexperience teaching english and
being a dj and maybe that alsowould appeal to foreigners
something fresh and unique, aswell as combining, you know,
tradition and ancient wisdom.
(25:46):
So yeah, it's amazing howyou've got all these different
people involved the priests, thelocals, investors and your own
team, right.
So pretty amazing.
So, for the people who rent theproperty in the future, what
(26:06):
could they do in the local area?
So maybe in a year or a yearand a half from now, maybe one
of our listeners would like togo and support you too.
Oh, yeah hopefully, I'lldefinitely want to visit.
Yes, so this is is it Irokawa?
Yeah, Irokawa.
Speaker 1 (26:25):
Yeah, yeah, the name itself doesn't really actually
exist in the map because it gotdisappeared by merged with
another town, but locals stillhas the identity to call
themselves as Irokawa.
So it means it has a reallystrong connection and identity
in the area.
But it doesn't mean thatthey're pretty exclusive to
(26:47):
people coming from outside ofthe city.
Actually, more than half of thepeople who live in Irokawa are
coming from outside, like thosepeople who relocated from the
town city.
So they're pretty open toanyone.
Yeah, and their specialty issomething special about them
them is they are reallyindependent living style.
(27:09):
For example, they each of thehousehold has their own farm and
rice field and also they sourcetheir daily water from the
river.
So they have the system likewhere they clean up, like every
day they take roll, like theylike they take turns to clean
the you know all the utilityevery day.
So it's pretty interesting,yeah.
So we are thinking to offer thefarm-to-table kind of dinner
(27:33):
that visitors can go to theirfarm and pick up some you know
fresh vegetable to make it forthe dinner salad and they can
take the fresh like egg from theyou know chicken house and you
know and use it for the dinner,and that's one of the
experiences that we were talkingwith the local.
Another experience will be wehave the English-speaking chief
(27:53):
priest monk, so we can offer theZen experience in the morning.
Ryokonji has the stunning view.
It's on the hilltop and there'sa stone wall that you can
actually sit on and you can seethe whole village from that
stone.
So doing the Zen meditation onthe hilltop and there's a stone
wall that you can actually siton and you can see the whole
village from that stone so doingthe Zen meditation on the stone
will be one experience.
And this experience issomething that we did when we
(28:14):
went to the Daitaiji.
Daitaiji is another temple thatthe chief priest monk is doing
a vacation rental.
He made the morning porridgeand we ate it in the zen you
know monk way.
So he told me, like, how to eatit in a training way and he
told me some you know teaching,you know.
So they are some of theexperiences that we are thinking
(28:36):
of.
Yeah, but staying in that areaitself is going to be, uh, like
enough experience and we canconnect with, like people who
live there as well.
Speaker 2 (28:46):
Yeah, I think just the benefit of going somewhere
so remote and so surrounded bynature, and just that alone
would be very powerful.
It is.
But, also contributing andsustaining our community.
And yeah, maybe having time formeditation and reflection and
(29:08):
yeah, it all sounds reallyinspiring.
So another moving part of allof this is, once the property is
available for rental, who willmanage it once it's ready?
Speaker 1 (29:22):
sure.
So there's the company.
We have the candidate companiesthat our owners can make a vote
for.
One of the top candidates iscalled ShareWing.
They run a project calledOterastei Oterastei meaning
simply temple staying in English.
So they operate a lodgingservice in a temple more than 11
(29:44):
or 12 in Japan at this point oftime.
Yeah, and they're the one whoconnected us with Chief Priest
Nishiyama-san and that's how wegot connected with the Ryogonju
temple.
So they have successful casesin other temples, so that we are
thanking them as a topcandidate.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (30:05):
Awesome and they have experience and so very likely
they can find or connect you topeople who want to have this.
I guess, yeah, temple stay.
Speaker 1 (30:17):
Right, right, exactly .
Speaker 2 (30:20):
Yeah.
So you are definitely dealingwith so many moving parts.
So this kind of makes me yeah,it kind of does make me think of
Ikigai, because, as you know,ikigai doesn't just mean, you
know, being happy.
Ikigai involves something youcare about or pursuing something
meaningful to you.
(30:40):
But this also sounds like akokorozashi, because it's really
ambitious.
It's really really ambitious.
So, yeah, this business, is itboth your ikigai and your
kokorozashi?
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (30:56):
I see, I see it is.
Yeah, it is.
Because if it's not, it doesn'tcomply with ikigai or
kokorozashi then I wouldn't havedone it.
I think Because, as you said,there's so many I'm waiting for
and when I talk to the investor,like all words come from my
heart.
And that has to come from myheart Because, as I said, it's
(31:18):
not about numbers, just thenumbers.
And ROI, that we project is nottoo high compared to other
countries.
If they just leave their moneyin the bank, the interest rate
in japan is pretty low.
So the roi project is prettyhigh in japan, but, for example,
the company countries in hongkong and the interest rate is
pretty high.
(31:38):
So roi doesn't really convincethe investor.
You know that the only reasonit's not going to be, the only
reason for the investor to buy.
So those emotional part, thatthe conviction part, it is the
plays a main role and that hasto come from my heart.
Yeah, and I come from thewarehouse running family.
(32:01):
So my dad owns a company thatruns the warehouse and he is
actually looking for someone toinherit the business.
And there are so many peoplewho are looking for someone to
inherit the business, especiallyin a local area of japan.
I come from osakasa, but thereare so many business owners
(32:22):
looking for people who caninherit it.
So this is not just the problemwith akia or Akidera or you
know, like local area of Japan,but also this is going to be the
problem in many industry ofJapan.
And how I see this project iswe are not only saving those
properties but more of likecreating a system where the
(32:43):
individual can gather.
Those individual doesn't matterwhere they come from, as long
as they have kokorozashi for theproperty or the local they can
contribute.
So I think that comply with myown personal problem that comes
from my family as well.
Speaker 2 (33:02):
So, yeah, yeah, even my, my in-laws.
So they make my father-in-lawand my brother-in-law make
Shinoyaki pottery.
Okay, wow, yeah, and they'refourth generation and it's very
likely that my brother-in-law'schildren won't pursue pottery
(33:28):
you know, which is fair enough.
But yeah, it is quite sad tothink there's a good chance they
won't pass on this knowledgeand tradition of pottery making,
this specific type of potterymaking, to someone, and yeah, it
will eventually end.
And yeah, it will eventuallyend.
(33:49):
So, yeah, japan has this tragicproblem, I guess, of losing its
culture, losing craft,personship or just properties or
businesses, because I guesscapitalism came in and stole
everyone.
It said, oh, it's more importantto make money and live in
(34:10):
cities and be rich right, rightand now I guess we're seeing the
result of that of you know oneor two generations of doing that
I think so.
Speaker 1 (34:21):
And some people said, like you know, like there are
many like mna companies that cansave your business, but it's
not about it.
You know, like those local thatwe talk to, especially from the
ryokonji temple project, ismore of like they're not just
looking for people who caninherit it, more of like they
can, if they can like, trust theperson, or you know that comes
(34:42):
from the emotional part of it,not the monetary part only.
So that has been a problem, andthe same situation is for my
family too.
Speaker 2 (34:50):
So yeah, yeah, there's almost a yeah, the
strong emotional component,almost like a spiritual
component you really have tocare about maintaining.
Why do you want to maintainthis building or property or
business?
Because it is yeah it'simportant, it has value and it
goes beyond money and justopportunity.
(35:11):
There's this intrinsic valueand it kind of connects to one's
spirit yeah so let's talk aboutthe next property and maybe we
can find you some investors.
So this is a property ourlisteners could invest in.
So, yeah, let's touch on thatproperty.
Speaker 1 (35:32):
Sure.
So next property is not thetemple, but it's an interesting
property that comes with 7,000square meter forest land and we
call it the bamboo forest houseand it's located in Hayama
forest house and it's located inhayama.
(35:53):
For those who don't know abouthayama, it's considered as one
of the top summer vacation likevilla resort place that is
popular for japanese peopleespecially.
But the interesting thing isthat this hayama area is
recognized as the imperial villaplace, since the imperial
family has one villa in thelocation and one of the beach
it's called Ishiki Beach isrecognized as one of the top
(36:15):
beach worldwide.
So it has a beautiful natureand also with the mountain and
beautiful ocean, and it's prettyaccessible from Tokyo too Just
one hour train ride.
There's a straight train fromthe Tokyo station to to just one
hour train ride.
Yeah, there's a straight trainfrom the Tokyo station to
Tsuzushi station and you canexplore the area from that
(36:35):
station.
Yeah, the Bambi Forest Housesince it has the 7,000 square
meter forest land, there's somuch space that we can play with
.
We're thinking to have the openair baths and also the sauna
and also yoga deck, because thishouse itself is so separated
from the main road of the area.
You need to actually hike inthe mountain road for about
(37:00):
three to four minutes, so onceyou're into the space you won't
hear any city noise or you'reall separated.
Yeah, you're all like separatedfrom the city area.
So it's interesting.
Yeah, not like temple, butbecause of that we have so much
space that we can play with.
I think yeah yeah, soundsexciting.
Speaker 2 (37:21):
You have this opportunity to get creative and
it kind of ties into I guess itties into wellness tourism as
well.
And this year I attended theWellness Tourism Expo in Tokyo.
Okay, and yeah, it looks likeit's a huge area of growth and
(37:42):
you know, there's glamping andall these kind of high-end
opportunities or staying at aryokan.
So what you're offering isquite, quite unique um, getting
away from it all and being innature and you know, again,
saving a property, so that mustbe fun.
To plan these properties andthink, oh, what are we going to
(38:04):
do with this property?
And have an outside hot springbath or a yoga deck or a sauna.
So you, must enjoy that aspectof the business very much.
Speaker 1 (38:16):
It is.
Yeah, it is very interesting.
Yeah, to work with a localconstructor.
They give us many interestingyou know ideas that also, we
listen to our owners as well andwe sometimes bring the
potential investor to the placeand they, of course, give us,
like many you know interestingthought, and one of them was
actually a tattoo artist thatshe used to be a tattoo artist
(38:38):
and she gave us an idea of whatabout like, how do you say like
craving the bamboo with the zenword.
So while we have the you knowopen air bath in the yoga deck,
maybe like looking at the bambooand it has that zen you know
like teaching word, and allcould be interesting.
Speaker 2 (38:58):
Yeah, yeah, yeah yeah , it's amazing what you can do
with bamboo so using it as aalmost like a scroll or a
teaching tool.
That's a cool idea.
Yeah, okay.
So, tamaki, how can peoplesupport your cause?
Because, if they want to, theycould invest in the bamboo
(39:20):
forest house or other futureproperties sure.
Speaker 1 (39:23):
So, yeah, biggest support will be investing in us
because we're very early stagefor our project as a whole a
planet as a whole.
So it's been pretty difficultto reach out to those people who
are really interested in us,since we are based in Japan.
(39:43):
So, nick, thank you so much forthis opportunity to hear, I
think, helping us a lot to reachout to those who could be
interested in Upland itself andalso gaining that trust.
It's going to be pretty hardfor us too, because this year,
as I said, like based in Japan,it's pretty hard for people to
know that, like if we're a legitcompany or not.
(40:05):
And, yeah, we have installedsome tools, like for our website
called like Trust Pilot, andpeople like start writing that
review for us.
So getting our credibility byposting about us and, you know,
giving some review for us, it'sgoing to be a big help as well.
Yeah, and we appreciate anyfeedbacks.
(40:25):
If you have any feedbacks, thenplease send us like any
messages on inquiry.
I check all the messages.
Yeah, we have.
So yeah, that really surprisedme that you told me in
conversation that some peoplethought it was a scam and like
it's too good to be true, and Iwas really shocked because I
just thought well, yeah, even Iactually have the you know my me
(40:48):
myself like talking about theproject on my website and I do
the one-on-one call with thosepeople who are interested in
having a call with us.
Some people call that like thevideo itself is AI generated and
having a call with the founderis like sounds like a scam.
Even though they don't you know, they don't book it, they call
(41:10):
it, so yeah yeah, that's strange, I mean.
Speaker 2 (41:13):
I mean maybe because that's rare, because you
probably would think, or thefounder would be, you know, too
busy to talk to me, so but tothink it's ai generated, you're
definitely not ai generated.
Speaker 1 (41:24):
I've met you in person and they can hear my
Japanese accent and you know myEnglish.
I would have done better ifit's like AI generated.
Speaker 2 (41:35):
No.
So real person, real businessand a business or a project
definitely worth supporting.
And yeah, again, I'm justamazed Like this is so ambitious
and so challenging, so veryinspiring.
So it's a real joy to have youon the podcast, and we'll have
Monica, your community manager,as well.
(41:58):
And, yeah, I'd love to supportevery property you do.
So maybe we'll have you onoften.
So let's end with Ikigai.
So I think, obviously, savingthese culturally important and
historical properties is tied toyour ikigai.
Do you want to go deeper intothat?
Speaker 1 (42:19):
sure.
So ikigai, I think, in japanesehas many meanings and I try to
think that like deeper level ofikigai.
And the moment that I feel thejoy for myself is that when I
see someone maximizing theirpotential it could be someone or
the property or the area.
(42:40):
I don't mean not only about theproperty.
I think the same for, forexample, my children and also my
team member as well and when Isee those potential that has not
been maximized, then I feelreally, really frustrated.
I think it's too much forsomeone else to think like that
for someone, but I honestly feelfrustrated about it.
(43:02):
Yeah, and for myself too.
And for this Planet Zao case, Isee many cases that it's not
maximizing the potential, it'sbecause they're closed and they
don't really see the opportunity.
That's being outside of thearea or outside of the community
.
So, as I said, the ikigai orkokorazashi for the Planet Zao
(43:25):
itself is to unlock thepotential, and that comply with
my ikigai as well.
So, um, there's a huge fans youknow japan abroad and we are
connecting the opportunity withthe local community or the
property that has the so muchpotential in it.
Speaker 2 (43:40):
So yeah, no, it's really inspiring.
And yeah it's.
I guess if we open eyes, we cansee all this opportunity.
And then I guess you've got to.
You know, believe in yourselfthat you can do something about
it.
So that's pretty cool.
So, moving away from this veryambitious project, what about
(44:05):
your other ikigai?
You know your personal or yourprivate ikigai?
Speaker 1 (44:10):
Private ikigai.
I'm not really able to do itrecently since I have one in
three years old kids runningaround me.
And I don't really have theprivate time myself, but I like
to do the you know, explore myspiritual journey kind of thing.
Yeah, I like to have my youknow explore my like spiritual
journey kind of thing.
Yeah, I like to have like mypersonal time for like just
(44:33):
meditating and I used to do thesorry, I forgot the word not
eating, like eating and drinkingfor a while.
Fasting, yeah, fasting, yeah,fasting helped me a lot to think
deeply.
And yeah, also, I like to do todo, to practice all like you
know spiritual journey kind ofthings.
But for the yeah past, like twoto three years, I was not like
(44:56):
able to do it and able to domore.
Speaker 2 (44:58):
But yeah, that's my other like, if you guys to do
yeah yes, well, you certainlyhave your hands full with your
children and this project, but,uh, yeah, maybe you need that
spiritual journey.
Yeah, balance yourself yeah, Ithink so yeah, I mean, ambition
is like a double edged sword.
It's really inspiring, givesyou motivation, but if you're
(45:21):
not careful you can get burnedout for sure yeah so how can
people you Where's the bestplace to support what you're
doing?
Speaker 1 (45:31):
Sure, so maybe follow me on LinkedIn is one of the
tools, and also Substack.
I'm not really active as muchas I want to do, but I will
constantly write about theproject and also myself on
Substack for a long post.
I recently deleted my ex andinstagram, so linkedin and
(45:55):
substack could be one and whatabout the planet dao website?
Sure, so you can uh sign up forour newsletter.
Speaker 2 (46:03):
We have the newsletter subscribing button on
the website so you can sign upfor that awesome, so I'll
include all those links in theshow notes, thank you, and maybe
we can also add some photos ofthe properties to the web page
as well to promote what you'redoing.
So, yeah, really inspiring whatyou're doing.
(46:25):
It was great to meet you lastmonth and I look forward to the
new properties you bring to lifein future.
Thank you, tamaki, for yourtime today.
Speaker 1 (46:37):
Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 2 (46:39):
My pleasure, bye.
Speaker 1 (46:41):
Bye, thank you.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com