March 19, 2025 • 56 mins
When was the last time you had a calm, productive conversation about politics? In a world where social media algorithms push us deeper into echo chambers, Thomas Moore is building something different. PoliTorium, which launched February 25th on iOS, aims to transform how we engage with different viewpoints online.
His solution combines thoughtful design with cutting-edge technology to foster respectful discourse. PoliTorium's feed purposely shows you diverse perspectives instead of just content you'll agree with. Its reputation system follows users across the platform, making trolls immediately identifiable while rewarding quality contributions. Perhaps most innovative is the AI system that detects condescending tones and passive-aggressive language - the subtle disrespect that often poisons political discussions.
What truly sets PoliTorium apart is its focus on local politics. While we obsess over national issues, it's local politics that most directly affects our daily lives. Yet most Americans can't name their city council members, and finding information about local candidates remains frustratingly difficult. PoliTorium creates a space where users can build reputations in their communities, potentially encouraging more civic participation where it matters most.
Unlike many platforms that prioritize engagement at any cost, PoliTorium's bylaws explicitly prioritize users over shareholders. Its transparent moderation system makes all actions publicly visible, preventing the unexplained bans that plague other platforms.
In a time when many feel democracy itself is threatened by polarization, PoliTorium offers something increasingly rare: hope that technology can bring us together rather than drive us further apart.
Download the app available after February 25th and join the conversation that might just help heal America's divisions.
https://www.politorium.com/
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Victor (00:00):
Welcome everyone to the I'm Not Dumb but Podcast.
I'm your host for today, Victor, joined always by Rob.
Hello, Chris, Yup.
Rob (00:10):
And Cesar.
Yup, so who do we got?
We got another guest right.
Is this Chris's replacement?
Chris (00:17):
Why am I getting replaced every episode?
Rob (00:22):
Actually, Chris, I want to let you know these interviews
are for positions on the podcast.
Victor (00:28):
We're actually interviewing.
Tell me, guys, how often do youguys talk about politics?
All the time, never, never forme why?
Is that.
Is it too heated, or are youjust out of?
Rob (00:40):
the loop.
It just seems it's soradicalized now.
It just goes one direction orthe other and you never really
get an answer.
You never have a place to talkabout it, and it's better to
just avoid it or just, you know,sit behind your screen and
start typing ideas.
Chris (00:55):
For me it's like I just don't want to say the wrong
thing, just to tell my opinionor my thoughts and then piss
someone off.
Cesar (01:09):
And then that person just goes off for no reason.
Try having right opinions thenexactly, chris, to be honest,
it's all like I don't talk aboutit because like I'm very
logical and think the way Ithink, and if things are black
and white, well then I'm alwaysgonna set a reason right.
But we've gotten to the pointwhere there is no reason at all,
absolutely not.
So it hurts my head to evenlike.
Why am I wasting my timetalking to you when, literally,
you're going to hear me one earout the other?
Victor (01:31):
Well, today our guest, thomas Moore, is attempting to
solve this issue.
He is the founder of Politorium, a new app that wants to fix
how we view debate and discourseand to help us answer the
question I'm not dumb, but howdo you talk about politics?
Cesar (01:49):
Welcome to the I'm Not Dumb but podcast, where we won't
claim to have the answers tolife's deepest questions but
we'll give you an excitingjourney into the realms of
knowledge you never knew youneeded Might be mainstream, but
not common knowledge.
From artificial intelligence toconspiracy theories, no topic
is too taboo for us to explore.
Let's get curious together.
Victor (02:10):
Tom, welcome to the show , thank you.
Thanks so much for joining us.
So you are the founder andcreator of Politorium.
Thomas Moore (02:19):
That's correct, yeah.
Victor (02:20):
What is Politorium?
Thomas Moore (02:22):
What is Politorium ?
It's a social platform forrespectful discourse, so a place
you know where you can expectlike not to be trolled and like
a place like where people justwant to kind of have a real
conversation.
You know whether it's likesocial or political.
Yeah, just somewhere people cango to get out of the
polarization that's in politicsin America.
Victor (02:45):
Polarization this is the first time I'm hearing about it
.
Chris (02:48):
Like the bear Polar vortex.
Yeah, it's a new thing.
Thomas Moore (02:58):
No, it's a big problem right now.
I started building it two yearsago, so I had the original idea
for it, which, honestly, Ithink tons of people have had
the idea for it, and the factthat nobody's really made it yet
is baffling to me.
But everybody knows it's aproblem.
Everybody knows we all need aplace to have a real
conversation.
The whole X and Facebook andReddit all of them have
(03:20):
political biases.
Victor (03:22):
Yeah, we've all had those family gatherings, holiday
gatherings where everyone's ateach other's throats.
Thomas Moore (03:28):
Yeah, you know, and so here's the big picture,
honestly is I feel like theinternet has damaged the way we
communicate with each other.
So I want to build Paulatoriumas a place to kind of start like
mending that.
You know, that wound of howeverybody's like just so divided
and the way that we talk toeach other like just in general,
(03:49):
get communication kind of moreon a on a respectful scale.
Victor (03:54):
You know, like people talk on the internet like in
ways that they would never talkyou know in person, obviously,
Cause you're anonymous, See, Imean technically you can hide
behind a username and then noone really knows who you are or
what you're saying right, right,you know, and people can remain
anonymous on paulatorium.
Thomas Moore (04:12):
The idea, though, is, um to encourage you being
you.
I mean, there's so many likedifferent features, um, that
encourage you to to be who youactually are, you know.
Uh, you know, we have, like ididentification verification
system, um, which comes withlike perks of being able to
create petitions and everythinglike that, but the big picture
(04:33):
is basically fixing how we speakto each other.
You know, but, um, also kind ofbringing the people back
together, whether you're on theleft or the right or whatever
side, because as long aspolarization exists, the power
exists in the hands of thepoliticians, not the people.
Because if we can't be on thesame page, then we can never
(04:53):
really make actual changetogether.
The app.
Rob (04:57):
How would it be laid out?
It would fact check things.
Or because right now we havemoderators, how do we even fact
check things?
Community notes, communitynotes, community notes that's
what it is.
Thomas Moore (05:06):
Community notes has certainly become the thing
that everybody's kind ofswitching to, because fact
checkers just come withpolitical bias.
And community notes do too.
But I guess community notespeople can community note a
community note and everybody canjust sit there and provide
facts for whatever.
So Politorium this is kind ofthe sequence that makes
(05:28):
Politorium work.
It's a group of features,functions and philosophies.
It all starts with fosteringrespectful political discourse.
People have to want a place tobe respectful, they have to want
a place to have seriousconversations and really talk to
one another and leaving all thebaggage at the doors I mean
without them wanting it to beginwith, then the whole thing
(05:49):
doesn't even make sense, it'suseless.
So that's the first step isshowing people that it's
possible to have real I don'twant to say intelligent, but
intelligent conversations withone another without just always
being at each other's throats.
And the second step so all oflike X, for example, or Facebook
, they all want you to doomscroll because then they make ad
(06:11):
revenue right.
So what they show you is thingsthat you want to see, things you
agree with, and it creates anecho chamber right, always
showing you the things that areon your side, the opinions you
already have.
So the suggested feed is an AIalgorithm that my team's made
that basically it's not going tojust constantly show you things
(06:31):
that you hate, but it's goingto show you points of view that
are different from your own,that get you to engage with the
other side, so kind of justopening up channels of
communication through asuggested feed.
That is a lot different fromevery other social platform
suggested feed.
We don't care if you do andscroll Like.
At the end of the day, if yousign off of the app, then you
sign off the app.
(06:51):
We want you to be open-minded.
So then the third step, thereputation system.
It really helps with two thingsit encourages quality content
and it also shows people likewho the trolls are, if somebody
has like negative 16,000reputation, then it makes people
be like I'm not even gonna gethooked on your troll.
(07:13):
So basically the reputationsystem anywhere a user's content
is, whether it's a post or apetition or a comment even the
users carry it across the entireplatform.
So every single place you see auser, you'll know the type of
content they create and you knowwhether or not they're a troll.
It really helps people kind oflike save time, like don't
engage with that.
Victor (07:34):
And would that include things like bots that are just
like posting randomly to to justget the reputation all comes
from.
Thomas Moore (07:42):
All it's a.
It's a.
It's literally, I guess youcould say as simple as reddit's
karma system.
Right, it's just the sum, theaverage of likes and dislikes
that a person gets across allcontent, whether it's, you know,
comments or whatever.
So it's essentially karma.
We're just using it in adifferent way.
We're using it as like.
You're gonna see it every.
You don't have to go to theuser's profile to see their
(08:03):
reputation.
It is on every single placethat they post any content that
they create.
You're going to, they're goingto carry it across the whole
platform.
And the fourth step we use an AIalgorithm that detects tone and
phrase detection.
You know, like condescendingremarks, like constantly, just
any, anything that a person sayson one side, it's always met
(08:24):
with sarcasm and a condescendingtone always.
You know, just putting eachother down constantly.
And the ai uh, tone and phrasedetection will keep people
respectful and open.
I guess you could say, likekeeping people real, legitimate,
um, just not talking down toone another like a check and
balance to their like hey,you're yeah, you're sounding a
(08:45):
bit passive-aggressive, thereexactly um because it's one of
the.
It's one of the things that youknow like, even if you don't,
even if you're not using likeslurs or cussing at somebody or
whatever you know like if you'renot, even if you're not
straight up um being like rudeyou're, you're, you're still
being rude, you know you'restill being rude.
(09:07):
You know you're still just withsarcasm and just being
condescending to each other.
But so step five incentivizingID verification.
Instead of like on X you knowyou pay $16 or whatever it is
for a blue check mark.
It doesn't verify who a user isor anything like that, it's
just like hey, you're there.
I don't even know if they callit verified anymore.
I guess it's just like there'sa premium user, it's a.
(09:29):
Yeah.
So our ID verification.
It just uses an API system thatwe work with another company,
that they just scan their ID andthen take a selfie and it
proves whether or not they are,who their profile is and this
all comes.
So there's local home, just whoyou follow, and then suggested
(09:50):
and in the local feed.
The objective is to get peopleto build a reputation in their
local community, as you know,just through their political
views, and hopefully remove thegate guards.
You know, the 30-year citycouncil members, that they just
win every year.
Because they win every year, um, or every election a lot of
them, I think, are justunopposed as well.
(10:12):
Yeah, exactly and just encouragepeople to uh to get involved in
their local politics because,like change seriously does start
locally.
Yeah, you know federal uh likepresidential politics, obviously
it affects all of us, but localpolitics is where you live, you
know, it's just so far removed,though I think like just
federal government and of thathigh caliber, is just so far
(10:34):
removed from what impacts yourlife daily.
Victor (10:37):
Yeah right, but it gets so much of your focus because,
like I think I remember one timeI tried looking up, it was like
election year, it was a, it waslike a mid-term year, wasn't
even like a big year, and I justwanted to see who was running
in my local government.
I found their names, but that'sabout it.
Rob (10:55):
I knew nothing about no information on there is no
information, you know what theybelieve, what they stand for
nothing.
Victor (11:01):
What are they gonna do?
Uh, I know they're Democrat andRepublican.
Thomas Moore (11:05):
Right, so that's a whole part of the local aspect
as well is every user you know,based on their zip code.
If they allow approximatelocation you know being turned
on, then they'll be able to see,you know, their entire, the
leadership of their wholecommunity.
Basically, wow, that's awesomeand but, but the real objective
(11:27):
of the local section, which,honestly to me, the local
section is like maybe the mostimportant feature of the app,
because it's encouraging peopleto build a reputation in their
locals.
You know their localcommunities and then run, do,
make change, make change, bepart of the change.
But yeah, so the IDverification, it's a huge aspect
(11:51):
because we want to encourageless anonymous accounts.
You're obviously allowed tomake an anonymous account.
Not everybody's even allowed toexpress their views, which is
something maybe we can addresslater, but if you have a job and
then you're expressing, someviews that you have, you end up
getting fired, so you have nochoice but to be anonymous.
Um, so you know, that's that'ssomething that we also hope to
(12:12):
hope to work on, like everybodyshould be free to express, uh,
how they feel and what theythink.
Um, and then step six, though,is the transparency infraction
board.
So the idea of this is everysocial media company, my wife,
for example.
She was banned off of Facebookwith no explanation and no
appeal, right, lost everythingof like a 15 year Facebook
(12:35):
account, all the pictures sheever uploaded, just all that
stuff, right, and because thewhole thing is done through,
just you know, know, ai, andthere's no humans involved,
really also it's not a it's notlike a standardized like penalty
system there.
Victor (12:49):
It's not divvied out evenly like yeah, if you,
someone, can get away withsomething that your wife could
be punished for, and absolutelyabsolutely so.
Thomas Moore (12:58):
The idea of the transparency is to say it's a
public board where everybody cansee every ban, mute, whatever
infraction somebody got.
Everybody can see theinfraction, what the crime was
and who the moderator was thatissued the infraction.
And this is something that Ithink will really really hold
(13:21):
moderators accountable because,you know, because they can't
have political biases if they'recompletely public, you know
they'll just be removed.
So the infraction system worksthrough a hybrid, you know,
system of AI and human.
Basically, it'll always, at theend of the day, it'll always be
a human that makes the decisionof whether or not somebody
(13:41):
violated.
What the most important aspectof Paulatorium is is the
community ethos all workingtogether to have this one place,
you know, where we can justleave all the baggage at the
door and just really talk.
Rob (13:55):
So, like, how do you regulate the reputation?
Like step three is reputationpart.
Like what if someone sayssomething and it just gets
downvoted into oblivion, youknow like, is that going to
negatively impact them?
Or people are just going to seethis person as they might have
even said something that wasn'teven that bad.
Thomas Moore (14:13):
Yeah Well, so, just like the appeal system,
with people voting yes or no oncontent that got infractions,
it's going to be the exact samelearning process and learning
curve.
The whole thing is going to bekind of a living thing that is
going to grow throughout time,because it's going to take time
(14:36):
to foster this sense ofrespectful discourse and trying
to just have a real place.
And there will be a lot ofpeople that you know love Trump
and hate everything else in thewhole world, so they downvote it
, or vice versa.
You know they just hate Trumpmore than anything, so they
downvote anything dealing withthem.
So, in the sense of regulatingit, what I don't want to do is,
(15:01):
you know, limit people's reachor like stifle anybody.
I want to, just I want thewhole system to be based on
encouragement and changing, likeI mentioned at the beginning of
this conversation, changing theway that we communicate with
one another and, like these,these like torn apart feelings
that we have about, you know,political conversation and
(15:23):
social conversation and makingpeople just want this place.
You know so, and it will taketime.
It will take time to grow andto there will be people that
come and they troll or they justlike, just uh.
Do you guys cuss on this?
Rob (15:42):
podcast yeah, go for it.
Yeah, okay, they just.
Oh, you can't say that.
I thought you were going to saysomething else.
Thomas Moore (15:49):
Yeah, they just, they just uh, just bash, like
you know, content real hard andthen you know they end up like
getting muted, banned, whatever,and then they leave and they
don't come back and maybe a yearthey come back and they're a
little bit better and a littlebit better.
You know it's going to.
It will take some people.
Some people want this straightaway and they want it to work
right now, and some people, youknow it will take time.
Victor (16:11):
I think a huge issue with at least with polarization
and the way people have, or tryto get have, discourse around
political topics is that peoplehave different set of facts.
I can go and say I read a PewResearch study saying yada, yada
, yada, and then you can justlook at me and say that's fake.
(16:33):
This guy's on the take GeorgeSoros.
Yada, yada, yada.
That's not true.
And then it's like now we're ina place where we can't even
agree on what's real and what'snot real.
How are we supposed to have aconversation then about
political topics?
Thomas Moore (16:48):
Right, yeah, yeah, the whole polarization thing.
You know what?
What I think deeply is that allstems from our election process
.
It all stems from like to to toget elected to begin with.
You need to start creating somedivide.
You need people to hate theother side.
There's no middle.
That's why we're a two-partysystem, because there has to be
(17:12):
this polarization and thisdivide.
We went from pretty respectful.
If you look back and watch theJFK debates and stuff like that,
they sat in chairs and justthey didn't.
It wasn't all smear, you know,it was here's the good things
I'll do.
And now it's just like here'sthis terrible person.
You know, my opponent did allof these terrible things and
they're worthless and everything.
(17:33):
Um, you know, in my opinion,one of the biggest things that I
, that I advocate for and that,uh, you know, I'll probably
forever try to make, uh, try tospread at least awareness on, is
, uh, ranked choice voting,which is, you know it's.
It's the exact same thing asdemocracy and everything.
It's just picking um, at the.
It's just basically picking a,a second and third place so
(17:55):
people can stop with the whole.
You know like, oh, you'rewasting your vote, the, the
whole idea of, if you vote forthis independent you.
You wasted your vote, or it's avote for that guy.
It's so un-American, it'sinsane.
It's not how democracy issupposed to work.
Victor (18:10):
I think for a time.
Didn't the loser become vicepresident?
Thomas Moore (18:14):
Yeah, I think so.
Yeah, yeah, For a very shorttime it was like that.
But then what it became?
And see I've thought this too,it's that, but then it would.
It became, and see, I'vethought this too.
It's like why, why don't we justdo that, you know?
But then I guess it becomes thesame thing where, uh, the vice
president or the president orwhoever is super like on their
own side and polarized by theirown side, so it becomes like
(18:35):
just a stalemate.
Basically nothing happens,because everything the president
wants to do the vice presidentgets in the way in the senate,
you know, know so.
So I've thought the same thinglike that would really help with
polarization.
I guess people just can't bemature, you know, and and just
try to work together.
But the system of ranked choicevoting, which is, you know
something, you can YouTube andthere's some real good like
(18:58):
minute 30 videos that reallyexplain what ranked choice
voting is, and I firmly believethat it would almost entirely
remove polarization from ourelection process and thus
leading into actual politics,because everybody running for
president, they rely on thosesecond and third place votes in
(19:18):
order to win.
So you got to stop trying tojust like create two sides.
Cesar (19:22):
You need that middle kind of fundamentally against
democracy you have the right tochoose but you can only choose
two, two sides yeah, exactly,there's no way to choose flavors
, chocolate or no?
Chris (19:34):
yeah, enjoy your democracy yep it's.
Cesar (19:39):
You're still in bitty testing, right.
What's one of the surprisingthings that has come out?
I know your user base is youwant it to be more rational
while they're doing theirdiscourse, but when emotion
comes into play, things can getout of hand, right.
So what is one of the mostsurprising things based on your
current member base?
Thomas Moore (19:59):
Surprising how.
Cesar (20:01):
You're implementing these six steps and you're like I
thought this was going to go acompletely different way.
I have this member base.
I'm trying to get them to berespectful of each other, but I
seem to be something seems to beawry.
Thomas Moore (20:14):
So Politorium is actually two years old, so I
built it by myself and I'm not adeveloper, so I just had to
kind of, you know, startteaching myself, basically.
So before I I had my currentteam which built the current
version that we're going intobeta for.
I built it myself and launchedit and it was, you know, we've
had a lot of uh press coverage,um, a whole bunch like business
(20:34):
insider and everything, umduring, uh, like the, the, the
me era of building and um, soyou know, we, we, we had a not a
I wouldn't call it large, but3,500 user base on the previous
version and there was nothingbut surprise.
It was certain things thatworked really really well and
(20:55):
certain things that reallyreally didn't work well.
Some of the things that I guessI would say were a surprise,
that that they worked was thereputation.
You could like see an actuallike if you look at the
analytics and demographics ofthe way that people are, uh, the
content that people arecreating.
Once they're like, really it'slike people really take to heart
their the likes and dislikes,the whole.
(21:17):
You know they really don't wantto, um, I guess, like be the
loser.
I don't, I don't know how elseto say that they don't want to
be the person that nobody wantsto talk to.
You could see like whenevertheir reputations in decline,
they start really, you know,working like a little harder to
make better content to like theypull back with like the
(21:38):
emotional attacks, Um, and thatwas I mean, that was what I was
hoping for and somewhat expected, but at the scale that it
worked, I guess it worked reallyreally well, because they have
to carry that everywhere they goon the app.
Victor (21:51):
I mean it's almost gamified in a sense.
You're trying to get thehighest score, so you look the
best Right.
Thomas Moore (21:58):
Right, yeah, and the encouragement that that
comes with for quality contentis great.
It's a, it's a really greatthing.
And when you combine thingslike the ID verification so you
know that you're really, you arewho you say you are, and
everything and the reputationsystem, like people can really
(22:18):
really begin creating a name forthemselves, and while you, you
can do that everywhere I meanyou can do that on X and
Facebook but then what do you dobeyond that?
I mean, I guess you startselling courses or something
like that.
You know, uh, selling a book orsomething I don't know.
But that's exactly why we have,uh, you know, the local feed to
possibly make a change likespeak out in your community with
(22:40):
your now good reputation, largefollowing, you know, talk to
your community directly.
Rob (22:46):
So you said Politorium, is it?
It's two years old now.
Two or three years old now,Right, Two years.
So in the early stages do youhave like avenues for feedback?
How did you get feedback fromusers to be like all right, let
me go ahead and maybe changethis or tweak this, or this is
not working well, or this isworking great.
Thomas Moore (23:04):
Right, yeah.
Yeah, I mean there was kind ofwhat you would expect in most
apps, like there was like aevery uh periodically, um users
would have like a you know amodal pop-up saying you know how
are you enjoying Politorium andeverything, and then a feedback
system system, but then alsothat feedback system is um
(23:24):
accessible at all times,basically.
So my, my version of the appwas uh was very, I guess, low
quality.
I'm not a developer, you know.
So what I did was I put afeedback button on every single
page along with, like a bugbutton.
So so, so I can get as muchfeedback and warnings, and this
doesn't work.
(23:45):
And this process of took fouryears actually, because the
whole thought of all of thiscame during the 2020 election,
where I just I kept on hearingit too, where it was like
there's just no place to have areal conversation.
Everywhere you go, it's just adivide.
Victor (24:01):
With ID verification.
In a world that we live in now,where everyone loses my social
security number, how do you guystake that?
Do you guys do it internally ordo you send it to a third party
?
And how is my information beingused to verify who I am?
Thomas Moore (24:19):
So user-sensitive information anything from names
to you know your location oranything like that is entirely
protected and never sold.
So the only type of data thatPolitorium sells is behavioral
data.
How long somebody was on a page, for what did they click things
(24:40):
that just analytic behavioraldata, but absolutely no
sensitive data at all.
And the id verification systemis done through an api, uh, for
a third party.
So you know you scan it itautomatically sends to them and
verifies uh you know, via aselfie of yourself as well, the
same way you would verify, likeif you were trying to drive for
(25:03):
uber, you know you'd scan yourid and you'd take a selfie to
reflect that you are the sameperson and it's all.
You know, ai based andeverything.
Um, but, yeah, that was a hardand fast rule for palatorium
since the very beginning.
A lot of these things that, um,these other social platforms,
like facebook, you know, was in.
(25:23):
They had to go before congress,um, because they were selling
everybody's data.
They pretty much hold your,your first amendment rights in
their hands.
They decide you know what youget to say and same with every
other social platform, you know.
That's one of those thingswhere you're like, oh well, in
this company, they make therules and and that is true and
(25:54):
you know so our rules since thebeginning and moving forward
forever, are going to be rulesthat you know, support the
user's privacy and rights always.
And as we grow and learn andthere's things that you know, we
see we could be doing better,then that's what we'll do.
But something like data is,yeah, absolutely protected.
Rob (26:07):
Is this your first venture?
Like, did you always want to bean entrepreneur or get into
something like this?
Thomas Moore (26:13):
No, not at all.
No, no, no.
I'm a lifelong musician, youknow.
So that was always what Iwanted to do, was you know?
Victor (26:21):
What do you play?
Thomas Moore (26:22):
I play just string instruments, instruments like
every guitar primarily, but youknow I've been a bassist in
bands and you know, play somesome ukulele and everything.
You know, um, yeah, so that waswhat I always.
You know, like I'm a singer,songwriter, so that was always
my thing.
And um, yeah, I got, uh had a,had a problem with drugs, you
(26:44):
know, so ended up to living in ahalfway house.
I got, after spending a yearthere, uh, super just fed up
with this, you know, redundant,repetitive, going to meetings
and doing drug tests, and so Ijoined the army.
So from the army, I guess I gotnot political, but my eyes more
opened up to, uh, kind of kindof the importance of politics.
(27:05):
I guess you could say, like, Idon't even talk politics, I run
a political discourse platform,but I want to talk political
discourse.
I don't want to talk politics,I want to talk about how we can
fix our engagement andcommunication.
Cesar (27:21):
Like.
Thomas Moore (27:21):
I can't change anything with politics.
Me picking a side and tellingjust shitting all over somebody
on Twitter is not helpingnothing, so that's not what I
want to do you built your own inthe beginning?
Chris (27:33):
At what point you're like I need to take it up to the
next level and get your team ordevelopers in.
Thomas Moore (27:39):
I was definitely thinking it the entire time.
From the start, I was like,because I'm not a developer, I'm
not a coder, nothing like that.
So I tried so many differentavenues of like how can I do
this?
And this was like before.
You could just tell AI becausethis was two years ago.
So I guess those AI appbuilders probably were out there
(28:00):
, but they weren't realmainstream and I didn't know
about them and they probablysucked as well, because they're
only okay right now.
Victor (28:07):
anyway, they're like cookie cutter, they're just like
you can do this or this andthat's it.
Thomas Moore (28:13):
Yeah, you can't be real specific with it.
Victor (28:16):
Right.
Thomas Moore (28:17):
And it's also like if you use like Boltnew, it's
super expensive because you runout of all the currency that
they you know the tokens orwhatever super quick just trying
to make a change on a button orsomething.
But yeah, so I I learned uhlike low code, like um bubble
adalo, so like uh no code, witha little bit of code, I guess
you know um, and with the code Ijust use chat, gpt.
(28:39):
I don't know what a singlething means with code but, yeah
so so the other do most coders.
Yeah, don't touch it yeah, so soit was a very I wouldn't even
call it generic, I'd call italmost like childish.
You know, it was what it was.
It wasn't.
It definitely wasn't what we'reabout to release right now.
(29:02):
Um, my, my lead developer is,uh, I think 10 or 12 year, uh,
full stack developer and yeah, Imean it's like the if you
compare mine and his, you know,nine day, but um so I just
randomly actually saw him make apost on reddit that was like
I've sold three companies, I'mlooking for something that I can
(29:25):
just actually sink my teethinto.
I'm not looking to build an exit, I want to build something.
And his post was removedbecause this was in r slash
startups and they delete everylike.
They just delete everybody's.
Anything you post, it getsdeleted.
It's crazy.
The rules that they have isnuts.
But so I managed to actuallycatch him, like right before it
(29:48):
was deleted, and I sent him abig thing about Paulatorium and
yeah, and then he's just likedude, this is it, like let's
build this.
Victor (29:56):
So he's built it.
Chris (29:57):
He's rebuilt it.
Thomas Moore (29:58):
Yeah, it was, it was all.
So the stars aligned.
The fact that his post was evendeleted a couple minutes later
and I never would have saw it,never would have met him.
So if I can just ask the bigShark Tank, it was just like
(30:21):
AdMob, basically, and Stripesubscription that comes with
additional features, thestandard kind of like X revenue
model, I guess.
Yeah, obviously there will be awhole premium section In the
beta.
Everything will be availablebecause we want everything to be
tested to find bugs andeverything.
But so once we actually launchthe 1.0, there will be a
(30:44):
subscription for premium thatcomes with a set amount of
features which we've got allworked out and everything,
different tiers actually ofpremium, so really really cheap.
And we're considering a sort ofwe're going to see how it goes
with the community and how mucheverybody wants to kind of, I
guess, play along to make thiswork.
(31:05):
If it does go well at the start, then we're going to do a kind
of like pay it forward sort ofthing where you know if you can
afford, get this tier and you'llget all of it and it will pay
for the guy that and so sobasically, you can get premium,
even if you can't afford it,basically, and we just kind of
help each other that sounded alittle bit like twitch's, like
(31:27):
sub model.
If you like, you can gift like asubscription to someone else,
kind of thing right, yeah, yeah,you know, um say somebody's
just starting to try to reallybuild their, their reputation
and everything, but they're likewell, I can't even access these
, um, and I can't afford it,because I'm trying to focus on
on this, like making content andeverything, but I'm not getting
(31:48):
paid yet.
Victor (31:49):
Yeah.
Thomas Moore (31:49):
You know there's.
I don't.
I don't want people to run intoa problem like that.
If you like your hearts in it,you really want to access, like
petitions, because you want tomake change, I don't want to
stop you from doing that, youknow I want you to be able to do
that.
So so that's the whole thing isfiguring out, um, kind of I
mean, obviously we, we are acompany and we have to make
(32:09):
money, you know so but figuringout the best way for for users
to have full access to, uh, tothe world, to every feature and
function that that we offer.
Another model, of course, isthe same exact thing as X, like
the revenue split between foursubscribers.
(32:29):
So we'll host subscribers,content, videos, everything like
that, so you can subscribe to aspecific person.
The exact same thing as X,basically.
And then there's a revenuesplit between the content
creator and us.
Rob (32:46):
Yeah, I'm glad you said that, because a lot of
businesses now are going towardthat like triple bottom line for
like sustainable business.
You're trying to make thatfinancial bottom line but you're
also trying to meet thatsocietal bottom line, which is
what you're doing, you know, andthen some will go into that
economic bottom line.
But you made a good point islike, how about those guys who
(33:07):
maybe can't get in the game oraren't allowed to, because you
don't want a certain amount ofpeople just kind of run in the
show there?
Thomas Moore (33:14):
Yeah, yeah.
Victor (33:15):
Rob, I feel like you just wanted to use those big NBA
words.
Yeah, well, I paid $2,500 forit.
Rob (33:20):
Well, I paid $2,500 for it.
Thomas Moore (33:32):
I want to also note that in our bylaws and this
is something that will probablymake it very difficult for us
to get venture capital but atthe end of the day, I'm retired
from the Army due to injuries,so I have a decent enough nest
egg to be able to, you know,help my team, help myself and
everything.
So if this specific fact thatI'm about to note makes it
difficult for venture capital,then we kind of just deal with
it.
But in our bylaws states alwaysyou know paragraph of our
(34:01):
always respecting our ethos andthat.
So that's what always comesfirst Um instead of the
shareholders.
Bottom dollar is the mostimportant fact.
Or they sue you, you know, um.
So that's like stated.
You know, the very first thingin our bylaws is, you know,
giving the users the bestpossible experience, whether
that's like financial and savingthem money or that's you know
(34:22):
the best content.
So say, venture capital getsinvolved.
And they're like, hey, if westart just showing them a whole
bunch, like they want us tocreate an echo chamber because
then there's more ad revenue.
So that's firmly and strictlystated in our bylaws that that
is not going to happen.
Rob (34:38):
So from the inception until now.
So what are the strategies thatyou're using to gain new users
or to grow that following Right?
Are you like partnering withother institutions, educational
institutions?
Thomas Moore (34:51):
So you know, social media it's a difficult
thing because there's no userswithout content and there's no
content without users, right, soit's like a chicken and egg
thing.
And there's no content withoutusers, right, so it's like a
chicken and egg thing.
So our primary marketingstrategy, when I was doing it
just myself, it was all paidadvertisement.
Basically.
You know which, digging intowhat the statistics and
(35:20):
everything are for paidadvertising, it's like 8% of ads
get clicked and then like 1%,two percent, even, uh, use your
call to action, what you'rewanting them to do, and then you
know, so it's just like breaksdown to like almost nobody.
You know um, yeah, so you knowthe.
We actually have um he's, he'snot our, our like cmo, like a
marketing officer or anything,but we have an advisor.
You know a guy that's uh beenin marketing for like 30 years.
(35:41):
You know real, real, real techsavvy, knows.
You know he knows what themodern way to do things are, and
you know one of the avenuesthat we, you know, think is most
important is, like the whole,like peso.
You know paid, earned, shared,owned, really using other social
platforms.
You know just being overlyactive on Substack and X and X
(36:02):
and just really, really puttingthe word out there.
And then, of course, there'sgoing to be, you know,
incentives for inviting newusers, sharing our content onto
X, things like that.
So basically the Peso model ofmarketing.
That's our strong approach,with the paid being probably the
(36:26):
least amount of effort put in.
Victor (36:30):
Do you feel that people in general have kind of stopped
pushing for a goal of makingsociety better, like, for
example, I see a lot of peoplenow I run into this with a few
friends of mine and it'severything that federal
government is terrible, theyshould disappear and not exist
(36:50):
anymore.
And now it's not a conversationof let's fix things, it's just
let's just burn it all to theground.
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
Do you feel that that's wherecommunities are kind of set now,
or it's just like, well, screwmaking things better, we just
want everything to disappear.
Thomas Moore (37:08):
Yeah, yeah, I would say, no matter who the
president is or what party isthe controlling party, the other
side wants to see it go.
And then some of the own sidelike in the current situation
where we're in right now a lotof the right they want to see
the government kind of get tornapart.
Chris (37:29):
And.
Thomas Moore (37:30):
I'm, I'm not like against budget cutting, but um,
but I'm for everything, likefrom top to bottom, should be
audited.
We should, you know, be able topass audits and everything.
Um, but I, I do think it's akind of outlandish thing to just
jump in and like, first thingwe do is, you know, start
slashing people Um me personally.
(37:50):
I don't, you know, startslashing people um me personally
.
I don't, you know, I, I have toremain like non-partisan,
apolitical, because you know,like just the my company, it
would be insane for me tosupport one side or the other.
You know, it would like, uh, itwould become an echo chamber.
It'd be like, well, I'm notusing that guy's platform, like
he's yeah, he's a democrat, he'sa republican.
(38:11):
So for me personally, I do havemy own views, but you know, I
don't, I don't even talkpolitics you know, like I said,
I talk political discourse andcommunication and how we can fix
things.
Like you, you know you're sayinglike people want to just like
see it all burn.
I think that's crazy.
I think that we live in thegreatest country and to just
like see so many people likehate our country kind of on both
(38:34):
sides, it kind of uh pains meto see that I I think if we just
worked together then we couldhave an amazing place yeah,
there's definitely a need forthat.
Rob (38:44):
I I was at.
I was at dinner yesterday withmy wife and we're sitting there
at this nice steakhouse, youknow, having like a 70 steak or
whatever it is.
Thanks.
Victor (38:52):
Thanks for the invite.
Rob (38:53):
Yeah Well, I wasn't going to invite you, but it was funny
because I'm hearing this tableover from me and they're getting
ready and the lady's like yeah,you know, and did you hear what
Trump said about?
I just don't understand what hesaid about Ukraine or whatever
right, and the guy puts hisjacket on and, in the middle of
the restaurant, goes well, letme just answer that for you.
(39:14):
Ukraine is the most corruptcountry in the world.
And I was like everyone justturned around and looked up and
I was like so this is wherewe're getting our news from,
like restaurants, but peoplehave these questions and they're
only going to ask their friendsor their groups.
They're not going to be able toget the full story If that's
the answer.
They're only going to ask theirfriends or their groups.
(39:34):
They're not going to be able toget the full story If that's
the answer they're going to get.
I'm not saying it's right orwrong, whatever it is, but
that's where they're gettingreinforced ideas from.
So it's like you need this placewhere people can say well, in a
respectful way.
Which that's going to be like.
Defining respectful dialogue isgoing to be tough, because I
think initially you're going toget people just used to using
(39:57):
other social platforms andranting Right, and then you
don't want to just completelykill them because you want them,
you need to retrain them, andthat's essentially what you're
doing, which you know.
That's that's, that's great.
Thomas Moore (40:10):
Yeah, yeah, there's no, you don't see other
points of view.
And if you do, it's always anargument.
Nobody's changing each other'smind by like calling them an
idiot, you know, like withoutjust like putting all your cards
on the table and expressing whyyou really feel a certain way,
like if you're just insultingthem, calling them stupid for
whatever ideas they have, oreven being condescending, like
(40:33):
just shouting that out in arestaurant, that's not changing
anybody's mind it's not makinganybody go?
Huh well, I guess I'm a trumpsupporter.
Victor (40:41):
Nobody's doing that you know, but if you said it louder,
of course he's just screamed atme.
Thomas Moore (40:49):
This opinion, um, say, say.
Instead he posted that as likea post with um with his opinion
on why he thinks that, and thenhe ends up having some back and
forths in the comments withpeople and um, you know, maybe
not even change your mind, buthave all the facts or other
points of view, otherperspectives, and I think that's
(41:10):
the most important part is likewe're not getting other
perspectives and if we do, it'sjust an argument.
Cesar (41:16):
You know, it's similar to fandom in sports, where a lot
of people are, they stick to oneteam and no matter what you
tell them, no matter what thefacts are, it doesn't matter to
them.
And similarly, I see people allthe time either, whichever,
whichever side you decide to beon, either Republican or
Democrat the time, either,whichever, whichever side you
decide to be on, eitherrepublican or democrat, I'm only
democrat, I'm only going to bethink democrat.
Thomas Moore (41:37):
and in my head I'm like, why, why does it have to
be voted yeah vote blue, nomatter who or vote red until
you're dead yeah, like why don'tyou vote based on policy?
Cesar (41:48):
yeah, it's like again when you, when you're dealing
with fans of any sports team,right?
They get so emotional.
And it's all about the emotionand that emotion drives their
thinking and their logic.
It's the same thing.
When I see videos I'm like butdo you guys understand?
You're kind of voting againstyour own interests, but you're
(42:11):
voting just because it's oneside and not a lot of the time.
Thomas Moore (42:15):
Yeah, and that's also what affects, uh, like the
whole.
Don't vote independent, becausethey're just gonna lose anyway.
If you vote for this guy, it'sjust a vote for that guy instead
, because you didn't vote for myguy it's like what kind?
Victor (42:27):
of logic is this, you know I think also that, though,
there's like a severe lack ofunderstanding of civics anymore,
like do we need to bring backschoolhouse rock to?
Chris (42:37):
explain people how laws are passed.
Victor (42:39):
Yeah, or just how like governments worked, or how the
electoral college works.
Thomas Moore (42:44):
Like yeah, just because you know, as as we roll
out the beta and everything,it's actually going to be a lot
of, uh, informational typethings like that, because a lot
of people don't know thesethings.
They see one guy on X saysomething about the electoral
college, and then they just runwith it forever and then they
start saying it or why theyshould get rid of it, or
something like that.
Victor (43:02):
No, it works like this and when it's like it completely
does not work like that.
Thomas Moore (43:07):
So there's going to be a lot of different
informational sections on howyou know, not just like what I
don't want to do is just havemassive walls of text because
nobody's going to read it.
So, right, interactive,engaging.
You know ways to like simplylearn these things that break
these, these, uh, how, howeverything operates down to to
nuts and bolts, and really teachpeople all of these things.
(43:29):
I think that's a very importantaspect, right next to
respectful communication.
Knowing how everything thatyou're even talking about works
to begin with is a prettyimportant topic.
Rob (43:40):
I think it is a fan base and it's tied to people's
identities.
They are this side and that'swho they are, even if that side
veers, but it's like that's nottied to who you are.
You know you can believe insomething or there's, you know,
a gradient and you can be thisidentity.
You know there's nothing wrongwith being a middle Democrat.
(44:04):
You know there's nothing wrongwith being a conservative
Democrat or you knowconservative.
You know it's just, people tiethemselves to this team and
they're like well, we'll getthem next year.
You know conservative.
You know it's just, people tiethemselves to this team and
they're like, well, we'll getthem next year, you know like
that's it yeah.
There is no place.
And these echo chambers are.
You know, they're not justonline, they're in our community
(44:26):
.
You know people will be at workand they'll click together and
then they'll just sit in a roomand they'll just talk shop all
day I mean, I'm not gonna talkto somebody from wisconsin about
austin texas.
Thomas Moore (44:38):
They don't live here.
But where do I talk aboutaustin texas?
What like the austin subreddit?
Then it's like just controlledby like powerful mods that you
know, like they have all thispower, these mods, and
everything, and they're onlygonna let through what they
believe and it's just insane.
So there is absolutely nowhereto talk, uh, about your local
(44:59):
community, and especially tolike build a voice for yourself
and build like a reputation andwho you are.
put your ideas out there and ifyou know you gain traction,
people support you like like,where do you do that?
Right now I don't think thereis a place and I think it's
super crazy because we are sopolarized that nobody gives a
shit about local politics, evengovernors.
(45:22):
Most people can't name whotheir governor is.
There's no town hall anymore.
We have a world hall.
Basically we have X andFacebook.
Why would I talk locally topeople in Nigeria?
There's, you know it doesn'tmake any sense.
So there's nowhere to to reallymake change and you're not going
(45:42):
to make change at thepresidential federal level.
Just because you're callingpeople an idiot on X.
You're wasting your time, youknow, but this polarization has
got.
Victor (45:51):
Well, have you tried DMing Trump on Truth Social?
I heard that word, I could jumpon there, jump on truth.
Thomas Moore (45:58):
I'm sure that's not a partisan at all.
Rob (46:01):
No, not at all I'm showing my ignorance, but like how do
these mods work?
Who picks them, who puts themin place and how is it different
now with your platform?
Thomas Moore (46:11):
The same way that you would get any job show
interest and we pick you as aperson that if you've shown the
interest in wanting to build astrong community, then you get
hired to be a moderator.
And they also have toessentially be aware and agree
that they're going to be held toa very tight and high standard
of our community ethos and whatthey do.
(46:33):
I mean it will be public, andso we just kind of hope that
that will incentivize them tojust remain fair and bipartisan.
You know, nonpoliticalessentially, and just look at
the ethos and did it violatethat, yes or no?
You know the community terms ofservice but they'll be, you
know, picked based on interviewprocess, like do you want this
(46:54):
place to exist?
And just finding the best peoplethat are willing to do the job.
So you know, as I mentioned,it's an AI, human hybrid, so
they would review content thatthe AI flags and then decide
there's we didn't get into itbut with the transparency
infraction board there's aninfraction tier system as well
(47:15):
and users can see, you know, ifyou get five full infractions,
which different violations countas different levels of
infraction, like a half, astrike or whatever and then
users can see what do they haveon their account, basically?
And they fall off after certainamounts of time, and so, yeah,
the moderators are chosenessentially just through an
(47:36):
interview process and showinginterest.
Cesar (47:39):
I know you spoke about your marketing strategy earlier,
but you can always get KevinHart.
Victor (47:43):
I think he sells anything.
Rob (47:47):
Oh yeah, you'd blow up Draft kings, I'm pulling in.
Victor (47:50):
You got to get in.
Cesar (47:50):
Listen, local politics is still dominated by elderly
individuals.
I've been to a whole bunch ofneighborhood boards.
That is just a lot of oldpeople and they vote.
So how do you think you'regoing to try to attract older
members to try to join when alot of them are mostly stuck on
(48:12):
TV, mostly stuck on Facebook?
Thomas Moore (48:13):
Right, how do you think you're going to be able to
migrate?
Cesar (48:15):
that interest to yours.
Thomas Moore (48:17):
So this is, you know, probably one of the most
important questions because, ofcourse, everybody, you know,
regardless of age, I mean, Ithink we have our age limit set
to 17 to use the app.
That's the you know, becausethen they're getting ready to
vote, basically.
But the you know, obviously,like older people, are
(48:38):
absolutely more than welcome tocome and, you know, have
discourse on Paul Torium, butthe most important as not I mean
, I keep saying that aboutdifferent things because they're
all like to me they're all soimportant but an extraordinarily
important aspect of Politoreumis teaching and encouraging
younger people to become engagedin politics and, while that is
going to take some time, withouta doubt, but helping them
(49:01):
understand that politics isliterally what controls and
shapes your existence and localpolitics is all the same.
And those older people thatyou're saying that are in
politics currently, that's who Icall the gate guards.
They're elected because theyrun unopposed and then they're
elected again because, even ifthey have an opponent, they've
(49:24):
just been in city council for solong that it's just who people
vote for.
You've seen their name for thelast 20 years.
Give them the vote.
They just become an institutionYou've seen their name for the
last 20 years.
Give them the vote, they justbecome an institution.
Yeah, exactly, it isinstitutional politics and it's
exactly what I'm trying toencourage change with.
So of course, it will beencouraging older people to take
(49:55):
note and to really know whatthey're voting for and
everything.
But a big aspect of everythingwith the local is encouraging
young people to find and usetheir voice, find what they
believe and what they agree withand you know, and to to vote
it's.
You know, like there's allthose like stickers and all
those like govotecom.
You know, but like what doesthat do?
You're not even telling vote ordie.
Chris (50:11):
Yeah.
Thomas Moore (50:12):
Like you're not, it doesn't encourage young
people, like it doesn't tellthem why they're just like, oh,
it doesn't.
I'm one person.
We need, like that thoughtprocess of I'm one person, you
know, like it's again, it's verylike un-American,
anti-democracy, you know, andwe've never put the focus on
encouraging, um, younger people.
(50:32):
It's it's never been the focuson encouraging younger people.
It's never been the case wherethat's who we try to get to vote
.
Of course, like you know, sidesdo, like you know, try to
target the new voters andeverything, but that's just to
vote for a side.
But we've never encouraged andtaught them like they should be
proud that they get to vote.
A lot of people don't, you know.
So this is something that I'mreally, really trying to work
(50:57):
with with the local aspect ofPolitorium.
Cesar (50:58):
What do I sign?
Victor (50:59):
Tom, thank you so much for joining us and we appreciate
you coming on and speaking tous.
Politorium available on.
Where is it available?
Where can I get it?
Thomas Moore (51:10):
So as of 2-25-2025 , it will be available on the
iOS App Store and then aboutthree days and this is the.
It's an open beta.
So there's no you know sign upwaitlist thing to get the beta.
It's just going to be publiclyavailable on the App Store and
then a few days after that itwill be available on the Google
(51:32):
Play Store, the Android storeSame beta.
Obviously, it's cross-platformeverything, but both will be in
beta.
But we basically just want toget through the iOS approval so
we know exactly how to clone itfor Android.
We don't want to upload Androidright now.
Then they're like two differentapps.
So we're doing one at at a time,starting with ios, and then
(51:54):
android will roll out and, uh,yeah, then it'll be public
forever and we expect about amonth, um, it will be an open
beta and then it'll be the 1.0launch, full features,
everything you know.
Very nice, yep, um and uh.
Palatoriumcom is our landingpage where, um, you know, you
can kind of get all theinformation, see what it looks
(52:16):
like, everything like that.
Um, yeah, so I reallyappreciate you guys having me on
.
This is a great conversation.
I feel like talks like thisreally open up like ideas.
You know, um, like, oh, thatyou, that is an important aspect
.
So, yeah, this is great.
Rob (52:32):
Yeah, thanks a lot, Tom, for coming on.
Thank you.
Thomas Moore (52:35):
Thank you guys.
Yeah, hope to talk to you again.
Rob (52:38):
I'll be signing up tomorrow , so you'll see me.
Sounds good, sounds good.
Victor (52:43):
I expect to see you guys , the first one that violates
all infractions.
Thomas Moore (52:48):
All right, we'll see you later.
Victor (52:49):
All right.
Rob (52:50):
So, guys, final thoughts.
Chris (53:00):
Don't ask me first because I gotta think about it.
That leaves you, chris, finalthoughts.
Um, yeah, so I think the ideaof it, or the concept what he's
trying to present or to bring itto the public, is like it is
pretty cool, like I don't.
I don't, I've never seen one,seen anything like that.
Um, so, hopefully, good luck tohim and hopefully it works.
Hopefully that this will give alot of people to have a safe
place for them to talk politics.
Yeah, I think it's a reallygood idea overall.
Rob (53:20):
Rob.
Yeah, listen, there's a needfor this right.
There is no uh, safe space forpeople to talk about things and
get a lot of information out.
And you know the way Tom'sdoing it.
He's doing it in a sustainableway.
He's not just thinking he'srunning a business, so he's not
just thinking about shareholders, he's thinking about his
stakeholders.
So he's creating this platform.
(53:41):
He's dealing with all theseother issues that it takes to
run this business.
But then he might have to comeup with like a tiered approach
or to generate revenue, but Ilike the approach, I'm looking
forward to it when it comes outand I'll definitely be on there.
Victor (53:56):
And Cesar.
Cesar (53:58):
I think this is a really cool tool that can be used,
because one of the biggestthings about politics is that no
one really talks about policies.
Emotions is all, identity,right.
So how do we kind of moveforward with just everything?
So I think this is, you know, areally good place for
(54:19):
level-headed people to try tolike, actually make positive
change.
Even if you don't really agreewith someone else, at least you
can talk policies and ultimately, at the end of the day, that's
what it comes down to.
That's what's going to move thecountry forward.
That's what's going going tosolve a lot of these problems
that we currently have or any ofthe problems that are going to
happen in the future.
I think it's a good stepforward.
I think there's a need for this, especially now and as the
(54:42):
country becomes more and moredivisive.
I think his user base is goingto just continue to grow.
Chris (54:47):
Can I say something again ?
Don't something again.
Don't copy me, chris.
No, I'm not, it's final.
She said what you had to say.
No, but based on what you said,I think that being this the
place, being the safe place, islike gonna be the key right,
because you're saying stuffwithout getting shit on and,
plus that, you get to connectwith people of your sense, like
I said, like feelings andthoughts, your beliefs and stuff
(55:09):
.
But I think that's gonna be thekey point to this platform,
where you can actually beyourself, I guess, and without
getting shit on, pretty much.
Cesar (55:18):
Chris.
Chris (55:21):
I just said that.
You just said that in Korean, Iknow, but that's why I know.
Victor (55:26):
But when he said that, I was like, yeah, you're right,
that is once again, we want tothank Thomas more for joining us
and please check out his app,palatorium, available now on ios
and soon to be on android.
We want to thank you forlistening, but before I let you
go, I want you to find thatshare button and send this to a
friend and help spread the goodword of the I'm not dumb but
(55:48):
podcast.
Also check out our YouTubechannel at I'm Not Dumb but
Podcast for more fun content.
Until next time, stay curious.
Chris (55:57):
Later.
Welcome everyone to the I'm Not Dumb but Podcast.
I'm your host for today, Victor, joined always by Rob.
Hello, Chris, Yup.
Rob (00:10):
And Cesar.
Yup, so who do we got?
We got another guest right.
Is this Chris's replacement?
Chris (00:17):
Why am I getting replaced every episode?
Rob (00:22):
Actually, Chris, I want to let you know these interviews
are for positions on the podcast.
Victor (00:28):
We're actually interviewing.
Tell me, guys, how often do youguys talk about politics?
All the time, never, never forme why?
Is that.
Is it too heated, or are youjust out of?
Rob (00:40):
the loop.
It just seems it's soradicalized now.
It just goes one direction orthe other and you never really
get an answer.
You never have a place to talkabout it, and it's better to
just avoid it or just, you know,sit behind your screen and
start typing ideas.
Chris (00:55):
For me it's like I just don't want to say the wrong
thing, just to tell my opinionor my thoughts and then piss
someone off.
Cesar (01:09):
And then that person just goes off for no reason.
Try having right opinions thenexactly, chris, to be honest,
it's all like I don't talk aboutit because like I'm very
logical and think the way Ithink, and if things are black
and white, well then I'm alwaysgonna set a reason right.
But we've gotten to the pointwhere there is no reason at all,
absolutely not.
So it hurts my head to evenlike.
Why am I wasting my timetalking to you when, literally,
you're going to hear me one earout the other?
Victor (01:31):
Well, today our guest, thomas Moore, is attempting to
solve this issue.
He is the founder of Politorium, a new app that wants to fix
how we view debate and discourseand to help us answer the
question I'm not dumb, but howdo you talk about politics?
Cesar (01:49):
Welcome to the I'm Not Dumb but podcast, where we won't
claim to have the answers tolife's deepest questions but
we'll give you an excitingjourney into the realms of
knowledge you never knew youneeded Might be mainstream, but
not common knowledge.
From artificial intelligence toconspiracy theories, no topic
is too taboo for us to explore.
Let's get curious together.
Victor (02:10):
Tom, welcome to the show , thank you.
Thanks so much for joining us.
So you are the founder andcreator of Politorium.
Thomas Moore (02:19):
That's correct, yeah.
Victor (02:20):
What is Politorium?
Thomas Moore (02:22):
What is Politorium ?
It's a social platform forrespectful discourse, so a place
you know where you can expectlike not to be trolled and like
a place like where people justwant to kind of have a real
conversation.
You know whether it's likesocial or political.
Yeah, just somewhere people cango to get out of the
polarization that's in politicsin America.
Victor (02:45):
Polarization this is the first time I'm hearing about it
.
Chris (02:48):
Like the bear Polar vortex.
Yeah, it's a new thing.
Thomas Moore (02:58):
No, it's a big problem right now.
I started building it two yearsago, so I had the original idea
for it, which, honestly, Ithink tons of people have had
the idea for it, and the factthat nobody's really made it yet
is baffling to me.
But everybody knows it's aproblem.
Everybody knows we all need aplace to have a real
conversation.
The whole X and Facebook andReddit all of them have
(03:20):
political biases.
Victor (03:22):
Yeah, we've all had those family gatherings, holiday
gatherings where everyone's ateach other's throats.
Thomas Moore (03:28):
Yeah, you know, and so here's the big picture,
honestly is I feel like theinternet has damaged the way we
communicate with each other.
So I want to build Paulatoriumas a place to kind of start like
mending that.
You know, that wound of howeverybody's like just so divided
and the way that we talk toeach other like just in general,
(03:49):
get communication kind of moreon a on a respectful scale.
Victor (03:54):
You know, like people talk on the internet like in
ways that they would never talkyou know in person, obviously,
Cause you're anonymous, See, Imean technically you can hide
behind a username and then noone really knows who you are or
what you're saying right, right,you know, and people can remain
anonymous on paulatorium.
Thomas Moore (04:12):
The idea, though, is, um to encourage you being
you.
I mean, there's so many likedifferent features, um, that
encourage you to to be who youactually are, you know.
Uh, you know, we have, like ididentification verification
system, um, which comes withlike perks of being able to
create petitions and everythinglike that, but the big picture
(04:33):
is basically fixing how we speakto each other.
You know, but, um, also kind ofbringing the people back
together, whether you're on theleft or the right or whatever
side, because as long aspolarization exists, the power
exists in the hands of thepoliticians, not the people.
Because if we can't be on thesame page, then we can never
(04:53):
really make actual changetogether.
The app.
Rob (04:57):
How would it be laid out?
It would fact check things.
Or because right now we havemoderators, how do we even fact
check things?
Community notes, communitynotes, community notes that's
what it is.
Thomas Moore (05:06):
Community notes has certainly become the thing
that everybody's kind ofswitching to, because fact
checkers just come withpolitical bias.
And community notes do too.
But I guess community notespeople can community note a
community note and everybody canjust sit there and provide
facts for whatever.
So Politorium this is kind ofthe sequence that makes
(05:28):
Politorium work.
It's a group of features,functions and philosophies.
It all starts with fosteringrespectful political discourse.
People have to want a place tobe respectful, they have to want
a place to have seriousconversations and really talk to
one another and leaving all thebaggage at the doors I mean
without them wanting it to beginwith, then the whole thing
(05:49):
doesn't even make sense, it'suseless.
So that's the first step isshowing people that it's
possible to have real I don'twant to say intelligent, but
intelligent conversations withone another without just always
being at each other's throats.
And the second step so all oflike X, for example, or Facebook
, they all want you to doomscroll because then they make ad
(06:11):
revenue right.
So what they show you is thingsthat you want to see, things you
agree with, and it creates anecho chamber right, always
showing you the things that areon your side, the opinions you
already have.
So the suggested feed is an AIalgorithm that my team's made
that basically it's not going tojust constantly show you things
(06:31):
that you hate, but it's goingto show you points of view that
are different from your own,that get you to engage with the
other side, so kind of justopening up channels of
communication through asuggested feed.
That is a lot different fromevery other social platform
suggested feed.
We don't care if you do andscroll Like.
At the end of the day, if yousign off of the app, then you
sign off the app.
(06:51):
We want you to be open-minded.
So then the third step, thereputation system.
It really helps with two thingsit encourages quality content
and it also shows people likewho the trolls are, if somebody
has like negative 16,000reputation, then it makes people
be like I'm not even gonna gethooked on your troll.
(07:13):
So basically the reputationsystem anywhere a user's content
is, whether it's a post or apetition or a comment even the
users carry it across the entireplatform.
So every single place you see auser, you'll know the type of
content they create and you knowwhether or not they're a troll.
It really helps people kind oflike save time, like don't
engage with that.
Victor (07:34):
And would that include things like bots that are just
like posting randomly to to justget the reputation all comes
from.
Thomas Moore (07:42):
All it's a.
It's a.
It's literally, I guess youcould say as simple as reddit's
karma system.
Right, it's just the sum, theaverage of likes and dislikes
that a person gets across allcontent, whether it's, you know,
comments or whatever.
So it's essentially karma.
We're just using it in adifferent way.
We're using it as like.
You're gonna see it every.
You don't have to go to theuser's profile to see their
(08:03):
reputation.
It is on every single placethat they post any content that
they create.
You're going to, they're goingto carry it across the whole
platform.
And the fourth step we use an AIalgorithm that detects tone and
phrase detection.
You know, like condescendingremarks, like constantly, just
any, anything that a person sayson one side, it's always met
(08:24):
with sarcasm and a condescendingtone always.
You know, just putting eachother down constantly.
And the ai uh, tone and phrasedetection will keep people
respectful and open.
I guess you could say, likekeeping people real, legitimate,
um, just not talking down toone another like a check and
balance to their like hey,you're yeah, you're sounding a
(08:45):
bit passive-aggressive, thereexactly um because it's one of
the.
It's one of the things that youknow like, even if you don't,
even if you're not using likeslurs or cussing at somebody or
whatever you know like if you'renot, even if you're not
straight up um being like rudeyou're, you're, you're still
being rude, you know you'restill being rude.
(09:07):
You know you're still just withsarcasm and just being
condescending to each other.
But so step five incentivizingID verification.
Instead of like on X you knowyou pay $16 or whatever it is
for a blue check mark.
It doesn't verify who a user isor anything like that, it's
just like hey, you're there.
I don't even know if they callit verified anymore.
I guess it's just like there'sa premium user, it's a.
(09:29):
Yeah.
So our ID verification.
It just uses an API system thatwe work with another company,
that they just scan their ID andthen take a selfie and it
proves whether or not they are,who their profile is and this
all comes.
So there's local home, just whoyou follow, and then suggested
(09:50):
and in the local feed.
The objective is to get peopleto build a reputation in their
local community, as you know,just through their political
views, and hopefully remove thegate guards.
You know, the 30-year citycouncil members, that they just
win every year.
Because they win every year, um, or every election a lot of
them, I think, are justunopposed as well.
(10:12):
Yeah, exactly and just encouragepeople to uh to get involved in
their local politics because,like change seriously does start
locally.
Yeah, you know federal uh likepresidential politics, obviously
it affects all of us, but localpolitics is where you live, you
know, it's just so far removed,though I think like just
federal government and of thathigh caliber, is just so far
(10:34):
removed from what impacts yourlife daily.
Victor (10:37):
Yeah right, but it gets so much of your focus because,
like I think I remember one timeI tried looking up, it was like
election year, it was a, it waslike a mid-term year, wasn't
even like a big year, and I justwanted to see who was running
in my local government.
I found their names, but that'sabout it.
Rob (10:55):
I knew nothing about no information on there is no
information, you know what theybelieve, what they stand for
nothing.
Victor (11:01):
What are they gonna do?
Uh, I know they're Democrat andRepublican.
Thomas Moore (11:05):
Right, so that's a whole part of the local aspect
as well is every user you know,based on their zip code.
If they allow approximatelocation you know being turned
on, then they'll be able to see,you know, their entire, the
leadership of their wholecommunity.
Basically, wow, that's awesomeand but, but the real objective
(11:27):
of the local section, which,honestly to me, the local
section is like maybe the mostimportant feature of the app,
because it's encouraging peopleto build a reputation in their
locals.
You know their localcommunities and then run, do,
make change, make change, bepart of the change.
But yeah, so the IDverification, it's a huge aspect
(11:51):
because we want to encourageless anonymous accounts.
You're obviously allowed tomake an anonymous account.
Not everybody's even allowed toexpress their views, which is
something maybe we can addresslater, but if you have a job and
then you're expressing, someviews that you have, you end up
getting fired, so you have nochoice but to be anonymous.
Um, so you know, that's that'ssomething that we also hope to
(12:12):
hope to work on, like everybodyshould be free to express, uh,
how they feel and what theythink.
Um, and then step six, though,is the transparency infraction
board.
So the idea of this is everysocial media company, my wife,
for example.
She was banned off of Facebookwith no explanation and no
appeal, right, lost everythingof like a 15 year Facebook
(12:35):
account, all the pictures sheever uploaded, just all that
stuff, right, and because thewhole thing is done through,
just you know, know, ai, andthere's no humans involved,
really also it's not a it's notlike a standardized like penalty
system there.
Victor (12:49):
It's not divvied out evenly like yeah, if you,
someone, can get away withsomething that your wife could
be punished for, and absolutelyabsolutely so.
Thomas Moore (12:58):
The idea of the transparency is to say it's a
public board where everybody cansee every ban, mute, whatever
infraction somebody got.
Everybody can see theinfraction, what the crime was
and who the moderator was thatissued the infraction.
And this is something that Ithink will really really hold
(13:21):
moderators accountable because,you know, because they can't
have political biases if they'recompletely public, you know
they'll just be removed.
So the infraction system worksthrough a hybrid, you know,
system of AI and human.
Basically, it'll always, at theend of the day, it'll always be
a human that makes the decisionof whether or not somebody
(13:41):
violated.
What the most important aspectof Paulatorium is is the
community ethos all workingtogether to have this one place,
you know, where we can justleave all the baggage at the
door and just really talk.
Rob (13:55):
So, like, how do you regulate the reputation?
Like step three is reputationpart.
Like what if someone sayssomething and it just gets
downvoted into oblivion, youknow like, is that going to
negatively impact them?
Or people are just going to seethis person as they might have
even said something that wasn'teven that bad.
Thomas Moore (14:13):
Yeah Well, so, just like the appeal system,
with people voting yes or no oncontent that got infractions,
it's going to be the exact samelearning process and learning
curve.
The whole thing is going to bekind of a living thing that is
going to grow throughout time,because it's going to take time
(14:36):
to foster this sense ofrespectful discourse and trying
to just have a real place.
And there will be a lot ofpeople that you know love Trump
and hate everything else in thewhole world, so they downvote it
, or vice versa.
You know they just hate Trumpmore than anything, so they
downvote anything dealing withthem.
So, in the sense of regulatingit, what I don't want to do is,
(15:01):
you know, limit people's reachor like stifle anybody.
I want to, just I want thewhole system to be based on
encouragement and changing, likeI mentioned at the beginning of
this conversation, changing theway that we communicate with
one another and, like these,these like torn apart feelings
that we have about, you know,political conversation and
(15:23):
social conversation and makingpeople just want this place.
You know so, and it will taketime.
It will take time to grow andto there will be people that
come and they troll or they justlike, just uh.
Do you guys cuss on this?
Rob (15:42):
podcast yeah, go for it.
Yeah, okay, they just.
Oh, you can't say that.
I thought you were going to saysomething else.
Thomas Moore (15:49):
Yeah, they just, they just uh, just bash, like
you know, content real hard andthen you know they end up like
getting muted, banned, whatever,and then they leave and they
don't come back and maybe a yearthey come back and they're a
little bit better and a littlebit better.
You know it's going to.
It will take some people.
Some people want this straightaway and they want it to work
right now, and some people, youknow it will take time.
Victor (16:11):
I think a huge issue with at least with polarization
and the way people have, or tryto get have, discourse around
political topics is that peoplehave different set of facts.
I can go and say I read a PewResearch study saying yada, yada
, yada, and then you can justlook at me and say that's fake.
(16:33):
This guy's on the take GeorgeSoros.
Yada, yada, yada.
That's not true.
And then it's like now we're ina place where we can't even
agree on what's real and what'snot real.
How are we supposed to have aconversation then about
political topics?
Thomas Moore (16:48):
Right, yeah, yeah, the whole polarization thing.
You know what?
What I think deeply is that allstems from our election process
.
It all stems from like to to toget elected to begin with.
You need to start creating somedivide.
You need people to hate theother side.
There's no middle.
That's why we're a two-partysystem, because there has to be
(17:12):
this polarization and thisdivide.
We went from pretty respectful.
If you look back and watch theJFK debates and stuff like that,
they sat in chairs and justthey didn't.
It wasn't all smear, you know,it was here's the good things
I'll do.
And now it's just like here'sthis terrible person.
You know, my opponent did allof these terrible things and
they're worthless and everything.
(17:33):
Um, you know, in my opinion,one of the biggest things that I
, that I advocate for and that,uh, you know, I'll probably
forever try to make, uh, try tospread at least awareness on, is
, uh, ranked choice voting,which is, you know it's.
It's the exact same thing asdemocracy and everything.
It's just picking um, at the.
It's just basically picking a,a second and third place so
(17:55):
people can stop with the whole.
You know like, oh, you'rewasting your vote, the, the
whole idea of, if you vote forthis independent you.
You wasted your vote, or it's avote for that guy.
It's so un-American, it'sinsane.
It's not how democracy issupposed to work.
Victor (18:10):
I think for a time.
Didn't the loser become vicepresident?
Thomas Moore (18:14):
Yeah, I think so.
Yeah, yeah, For a very shorttime it was like that.
But then what it became?
And see I've thought this too,it's that, but then it would.
It became, and see, I'vethought this too.
It's like why, why don't we justdo that, you know?
But then I guess it becomes thesame thing where, uh, the vice
president or the president orwhoever is super like on their
own side and polarized by theirown side, so it becomes like
(18:35):
just a stalemate.
Basically nothing happens,because everything the president
wants to do the vice presidentgets in the way in the senate,
you know, know so.
So I've thought the same thinglike that would really help with
polarization.
I guess people just can't bemature, you know, and and just
try to work together.
But the system of ranked choicevoting, which is, you know
something, you can YouTube andthere's some real good like
(18:58):
minute 30 videos that reallyexplain what ranked choice
voting is, and I firmly believethat it would almost entirely
remove polarization from ourelection process and thus
leading into actual politics,because everybody running for
president, they rely on thosesecond and third place votes in
(19:18):
order to win.
So you got to stop trying tojust like create two sides.
Cesar (19:22):
You need that middle kind of fundamentally against
democracy you have the right tochoose but you can only choose
two, two sides yeah, exactly,there's no way to choose flavors
, chocolate or no?
Chris (19:34):
yeah, enjoy your democracy yep it's.
Cesar (19:39):
You're still in bitty testing, right.
What's one of the surprisingthings that has come out?
I know your user base is youwant it to be more rational
while they're doing theirdiscourse, but when emotion
comes into play, things can getout of hand, right.
So what is one of the mostsurprising things based on your
current member base?
Thomas Moore (19:59):
Surprising how.
Cesar (20:01):
You're implementing these six steps and you're like I
thought this was going to go acompletely different way.
I have this member base.
I'm trying to get them to berespectful of each other, but I
seem to be something seems to beawry.
Thomas Moore (20:14):
So Politorium is actually two years old, so I
built it by myself and I'm not adeveloper, so I just had to
kind of, you know, startteaching myself, basically.
So before I I had my currentteam which built the current
version that we're going intobeta for.
I built it myself and launchedit and it was, you know, we've
had a lot of uh press coverage,um, a whole bunch like business
(20:34):
insider and everything, umduring, uh, like the, the, the
me era of building and um, soyou know, we, we, we had a not a
I wouldn't call it large, but3,500 user base on the previous
version and there was nothingbut surprise.
It was certain things thatworked really really well and
(20:55):
certain things that reallyreally didn't work well.
Some of the things that I guessI would say were a surprise,
that that they worked was thereputation.
You could like see an actuallike if you look at the
analytics and demographics ofthe way that people are, uh, the
content that people arecreating.
Once they're like, really it'slike people really take to heart
their the likes and dislikes,the whole.
(21:17):
You know they really don't wantto, um, I guess, like be the
loser.
I don't, I don't know how elseto say that they don't want to
be the person that nobody wantsto talk to.
You could see like whenevertheir reputations in decline,
they start really, you know,working like a little harder to
make better content to like theypull back with like the
(21:38):
emotional attacks, Um, and thatwas I mean, that was what I was
hoping for and somewhat expected, but at the scale that it
worked, I guess it worked reallyreally well, because they have
to carry that everywhere they goon the app.
Victor (21:51):
I mean it's almost gamified in a sense.
You're trying to get thehighest score, so you look the
best Right.
Thomas Moore (21:58):
Right, yeah, and the encouragement that that
comes with for quality contentis great.
It's a, it's a really greatthing.
And when you combine thingslike the ID verification so you
know that you're really, you arewho you say you are, and
everything and the reputationsystem, like people can really
(22:18):
really begin creating a name forthemselves, and while you, you
can do that everywhere I meanyou can do that on X and
Facebook but then what do you dobeyond that?
I mean, I guess you startselling courses or something
like that.
You know, uh, selling a book orsomething I don't know.
But that's exactly why we have,uh, you know, the local feed to
possibly make a change likespeak out in your community with
(22:40):
your now good reputation, largefollowing, you know, talk to
your community directly.
Rob (22:46):
So you said Politorium, is it?
It's two years old now.
Two or three years old now,Right, Two years.
So in the early stages do youhave like avenues for feedback?
How did you get feedback fromusers to be like all right, let
me go ahead and maybe changethis or tweak this, or this is
not working well, or this isworking great.
Thomas Moore (23:04):
Right, yeah.
Yeah, I mean there was kind ofwhat you would expect in most
apps, like there was like aevery uh periodically, um users
would have like a you know amodal pop-up saying you know how
are you enjoying Politorium andeverything, and then a feedback
system system, but then alsothat feedback system is um
(23:24):
accessible at all times,basically.
So my, my version of the appwas uh was very, I guess, low
quality.
I'm not a developer, you know.
So what I did was I put afeedback button on every single
page along with, like a bugbutton.
So so, so I can get as muchfeedback and warnings, and this
doesn't work.
(23:45):
And this process of took fouryears actually, because the
whole thought of all of thiscame during the 2020 election,
where I just I kept on hearingit too, where it was like
there's just no place to have areal conversation.
Everywhere you go, it's just adivide.
Victor (24:01):
With ID verification.
In a world that we live in now,where everyone loses my social
security number, how do you guystake that?
Do you guys do it internally ordo you send it to a third party
?
And how is my information beingused to verify who I am?
Thomas Moore (24:19):
So user-sensitive information anything from names
to you know your location oranything like that is entirely
protected and never sold.
So the only type of data thatPolitorium sells is behavioral
data.
How long somebody was on a page, for what did they click things
(24:40):
that just analytic behavioraldata, but absolutely no
sensitive data at all.
And the id verification systemis done through an api, uh, for
a third party.
So you know you scan it itautomatically sends to them and
verifies uh you know, via aselfie of yourself as well, the
same way you would verify, likeif you were trying to drive for
(25:03):
uber, you know you'd scan yourid and you'd take a selfie to
reflect that you are the sameperson and it's all.
You know, ai based andeverything.
Um, but, yeah, that was a hardand fast rule for palatorium
since the very beginning.
A lot of these things that, um,these other social platforms,
like facebook, you know, was in.
(25:23):
They had to go before congress,um, because they were selling
everybody's data.
They pretty much hold your,your first amendment rights in
their hands.
They decide you know what youget to say and same with every
other social platform, you know.
That's one of those thingswhere you're like, oh well, in
this company, they make therules and and that is true and
(25:54):
you know so our rules since thebeginning and moving forward
forever, are going to be rulesthat you know, support the
user's privacy and rights always.
And as we grow and learn andthere's things that you know, we
see we could be doing better,then that's what we'll do.
But something like data is,yeah, absolutely protected.
Rob (26:07):
Is this your first venture?
Like, did you always want to bean entrepreneur or get into
something like this?
Thomas Moore (26:13):
No, not at all.
No, no, no.
I'm a lifelong musician, youknow.
So that was always what Iwanted to do, was you know?
Victor (26:21):
What do you play?
Thomas Moore (26:22):
I play just string instruments, instruments like
every guitar primarily, but youknow I've been a bassist in
bands and you know, play somesome ukulele and everything.
You know, um, yeah, so that waswhat I always.
You know, like I'm a singer,songwriter, so that was always
my thing.
And um, yeah, I got, uh had a,had a problem with drugs, you
(26:44):
know, so ended up to living in ahalfway house.
I got, after spending a yearthere, uh, super just fed up
with this, you know, redundant,repetitive, going to meetings
and doing drug tests, and so Ijoined the army.
So from the army, I guess I gotnot political, but my eyes more
opened up to, uh, kind of kindof the importance of politics.
(27:05):
I guess you could say, like, Idon't even talk politics, I run
a political discourse platform,but I want to talk political
discourse.
I don't want to talk politics,I want to talk about how we can
fix our engagement andcommunication.
Cesar (27:21):
Like.
Thomas Moore (27:21):
I can't change anything with politics.
Me picking a side and tellingjust shitting all over somebody
on Twitter is not helpingnothing, so that's not what I
want to do you built your own inthe beginning?
Chris (27:33):
At what point you're like I need to take it up to the
next level and get your team ordevelopers in.
Thomas Moore (27:39):
I was definitely thinking it the entire time.
From the start, I was like,because I'm not a developer, I'm
not a coder, nothing like that.
So I tried so many differentavenues of like how can I do
this?
And this was like before.
You could just tell AI becausethis was two years ago.
So I guess those AI appbuilders probably were out there
(28:00):
, but they weren't realmainstream and I didn't know
about them and they probablysucked as well, because they're
only okay right now.
Victor (28:07):
anyway, they're like cookie cutter, they're just like
you can do this or this andthat's it.
Thomas Moore (28:13):
Yeah, you can't be real specific with it.
Victor (28:16):
Right.
Thomas Moore (28:17):
And it's also like if you use like Boltnew, it's
super expensive because you runout of all the currency that
they you know the tokens orwhatever super quick just trying
to make a change on a button orsomething.
But yeah, so I I learned uhlike low code, like um bubble
adalo, so like uh no code, witha little bit of code, I guess
you know um, and with the code Ijust use chat, gpt.
(28:39):
I don't know what a singlething means with code but, yeah
so so the other do most coders.
Yeah, don't touch it yeah, so soit was a very I wouldn't even
call it generic, I'd call italmost like childish.
You know, it was what it was.
It wasn't.
It definitely wasn't what we'reabout to release right now.
(29:02):
Um, my, my lead developer is,uh, I think 10 or 12 year, uh,
full stack developer and yeah, Imean it's like the if you
compare mine and his, you know,nine day, but um so I just
randomly actually saw him make apost on reddit that was like
I've sold three companies, I'mlooking for something that I can
(29:25):
just actually sink my teethinto.
I'm not looking to build an exit, I want to build something.
And his post was removedbecause this was in r slash
startups and they delete everylike.
They just delete everybody's.
Anything you post, it getsdeleted.
It's crazy.
The rules that they have isnuts.
But so I managed to actuallycatch him, like right before it
(29:48):
was deleted, and I sent him abig thing about Paulatorium and
yeah, and then he's just likedude, this is it, like let's
build this.
Victor (29:56):
So he's built it.
Chris (29:57):
He's rebuilt it.
Thomas Moore (29:58):
Yeah, it was, it was all.
So the stars aligned.
The fact that his post was evendeleted a couple minutes later
and I never would have saw it,never would have met him.
So if I can just ask the bigShark Tank, it was just like
(30:21):
AdMob, basically, and Stripesubscription that comes with
additional features, thestandard kind of like X revenue
model, I guess.
Yeah, obviously there will be awhole premium section In the
beta.
Everything will be availablebecause we want everything to be
tested to find bugs andeverything.
But so once we actually launchthe 1.0, there will be a
(30:44):
subscription for premium thatcomes with a set amount of
features which we've got allworked out and everything,
different tiers actually ofpremium, so really really cheap.
And we're considering a sort ofwe're going to see how it goes
with the community and how mucheverybody wants to kind of, I
guess, play along to make thiswork.
(31:05):
If it does go well at the start, then we're going to do a kind
of like pay it forward sort ofthing where you know if you can
afford, get this tier and you'llget all of it and it will pay
for the guy that and so sobasically, you can get premium,
even if you can't afford it,basically, and we just kind of
help each other that sounded alittle bit like twitch's, like
(31:27):
sub model.
If you like, you can gift like asubscription to someone else,
kind of thing right, yeah, yeah,you know, um say somebody's
just starting to try to reallybuild their, their reputation
and everything, but they're likewell, I can't even access these
, um, and I can't afford it,because I'm trying to focus on
on this, like making content andeverything, but I'm not getting
(31:48):
paid yet.
Victor (31:49):
Yeah.
Thomas Moore (31:49):
You know there's.
I don't.
I don't want people to run intoa problem like that.
If you like your hearts in it,you really want to access, like
petitions, because you want tomake change, I don't want to
stop you from doing that, youknow I want you to be able to do
that.
So so that's the whole thing isfiguring out, um, kind of I
mean, obviously we, we are acompany and we have to make
(32:09):
money, you know so but figuringout the best way for for users
to have full access to, uh, tothe world, to every feature and
function that that we offer.
Another model, of course, isthe same exact thing as X, like
the revenue split between foursubscribers.
(32:29):
So we'll host subscribers,content, videos, everything like
that, so you can subscribe to aspecific person.
The exact same thing as X,basically.
And then there's a revenuesplit between the content
creator and us.
Rob (32:46):
Yeah, I'm glad you said that, because a lot of
businesses now are going towardthat like triple bottom line for
like sustainable business.
You're trying to make thatfinancial bottom line but you're
also trying to meet thatsocietal bottom line, which is
what you're doing, you know, andthen some will go into that
economic bottom line.
But you made a good point islike, how about those guys who
(33:07):
maybe can't get in the game oraren't allowed to, because you
don't want a certain amount ofpeople just kind of run in the
show there?
Thomas Moore (33:14):
Yeah, yeah.
Victor (33:15):
Rob, I feel like you just wanted to use those big NBA
words.
Yeah, well, I paid $2,500 forit.
Rob (33:20):
Well, I paid $2,500 for it.
Thomas Moore (33:32):
I want to also note that in our bylaws and this
is something that will probablymake it very difficult for us
to get venture capital but atthe end of the day, I'm retired
from the Army due to injuries,so I have a decent enough nest
egg to be able to, you know,help my team, help myself and
everything.
So if this specific fact thatI'm about to note makes it
difficult for venture capital,then we kind of just deal with
it.
But in our bylaws states alwaysyou know paragraph of our
(34:01):
always respecting our ethos andthat.
So that's what always comesfirst Um instead of the
shareholders.
Bottom dollar is the mostimportant fact.
Or they sue you, you know, um.
So that's like stated.
You know, the very first thingin our bylaws is, you know,
giving the users the bestpossible experience, whether
that's like financial and savingthem money or that's you know
(34:22):
the best content.
So say, venture capital getsinvolved.
And they're like, hey, if westart just showing them a whole
bunch, like they want us tocreate an echo chamber because
then there's more ad revenue.
So that's firmly and strictlystated in our bylaws that that
is not going to happen.
Rob (34:38):
So from the inception until now.
So what are the strategies thatyou're using to gain new users
or to grow that following Right?
Are you like partnering withother institutions, educational
institutions?
Thomas Moore (34:51):
So you know, social media it's a difficult
thing because there's no userswithout content and there's no
content without users, right, soit's like a chicken and egg
thing.
And there's no content withoutusers, right, so it's like a
chicken and egg thing.
So our primary marketingstrategy, when I was doing it
just myself, it was all paidadvertisement.
Basically.
You know which, digging intowhat the statistics and
(35:20):
everything are for paidadvertising, it's like 8% of ads
get clicked and then like 1%,two percent, even, uh, use your
call to action, what you'rewanting them to do, and then you
know, so it's just like breaksdown to like almost nobody.
You know um, yeah, so you knowthe.
We actually have um he's, he'snot our, our like cmo, like a
marketing officer or anything,but we have an advisor.
You know a guy that's uh beenin marketing for like 30 years.
(35:41):
You know real, real, real techsavvy, knows.
You know he knows what themodern way to do things are, and
you know one of the avenuesthat we, you know, think is most
important is, like the whole,like peso.
You know paid, earned, shared,owned, really using other social
platforms.
You know just being overlyactive on Substack and X and X
(36:02):
and just really, really puttingthe word out there.
And then, of course, there'sgoing to be, you know,
incentives for inviting newusers, sharing our content onto
X, things like that.
So basically the Peso model ofmarketing.
That's our strong approach,with the paid being probably the
(36:26):
least amount of effort put in.
Victor (36:30):
Do you feel that people in general have kind of stopped
pushing for a goal of makingsociety better, like, for
example, I see a lot of peoplenow I run into this with a few
friends of mine and it'severything that federal
government is terrible, theyshould disappear and not exist
(36:50):
anymore.
And now it's not a conversationof let's fix things, it's just
let's just burn it all to theground.
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
Do you feel that that's wherecommunities are kind of set now,
or it's just like, well, screwmaking things better, we just
want everything to disappear.
Thomas Moore (37:08):
Yeah, yeah, I would say, no matter who the
president is or what party isthe controlling party, the other
side wants to see it go.
And then some of the own sidelike in the current situation
where we're in right now a lotof the right they want to see
the government kind of get tornapart.
Chris (37:29):
And.
Thomas Moore (37:30):
I'm, I'm not like against budget cutting, but um,
but I'm for everything, likefrom top to bottom, should be
audited.
We should, you know, be able topass audits and everything.
Um, but I, I do think it's akind of outlandish thing to just
jump in and like, first thingwe do is, you know, start
slashing people Um me personally.
(37:50):
I don't, you know, startslashing people um me personally
.
I don't, you know, I, I have toremain like non-partisan,
apolitical, because you know,like just the my company, it
would be insane for me tosupport one side or the other.
You know, it would like, uh, itwould become an echo chamber.
It'd be like, well, I'm notusing that guy's platform, like
he's yeah, he's a democrat, he'sa republican.
(38:11):
So for me personally, I do havemy own views, but you know, I
don't, I don't even talkpolitics you know, like I said,
I talk political discourse andcommunication and how we can fix
things.
Like you, you know you're sayinglike people want to just like
see it all burn.
I think that's crazy.
I think that we live in thegreatest country and to just
like see so many people likehate our country kind of on both
(38:34):
sides, it kind of uh pains meto see that I I think if we just
worked together then we couldhave an amazing place yeah,
there's definitely a need forthat.
Rob (38:44):
I I was at.
I was at dinner yesterday withmy wife and we're sitting there
at this nice steakhouse, youknow, having like a 70 steak or
whatever it is.
Thanks.
Victor (38:52):
Thanks for the invite.
Rob (38:53):
Yeah Well, I wasn't going to invite you, but it was funny
because I'm hearing this tableover from me and they're getting
ready and the lady's like yeah,you know, and did you hear what
Trump said about?
I just don't understand what hesaid about Ukraine or whatever
right, and the guy puts hisjacket on and, in the middle of
the restaurant, goes well, letme just answer that for you.
(39:14):
Ukraine is the most corruptcountry in the world.
And I was like everyone justturned around and looked up and
I was like so this is wherewe're getting our news from,
like restaurants, but peoplehave these questions and they're
only going to ask their friendsor their groups.
They're not going to be able toget the full story If that's
the answer.
They're only going to ask theirfriends or their groups.
(39:34):
They're not going to be able toget the full story If that's
the answer they're going to get.
I'm not saying it's right orwrong, whatever it is, but
that's where they're gettingreinforced ideas from.
So it's like you need this placewhere people can say well, in a
respectful way.
Which that's going to be like.
Defining respectful dialogue isgoing to be tough, because I
think initially you're going toget people just used to using
(39:57):
other social platforms andranting Right, and then you
don't want to just completelykill them because you want them,
you need to retrain them, andthat's essentially what you're
doing, which you know.
That's that's, that's great.
Thomas Moore (40:10):
Yeah, yeah, there's no, you don't see other
points of view.
And if you do, it's always anargument.
Nobody's changing each other'smind by like calling them an
idiot, you know, like withoutjust like putting all your cards
on the table and expressing whyyou really feel a certain way,
like if you're just insultingthem, calling them stupid for
whatever ideas they have, oreven being condescending, like
(40:33):
just shouting that out in arestaurant, that's not changing
anybody's mind it's not makinganybody go?
Huh well, I guess I'm a trumpsupporter.
Victor (40:41):
Nobody's doing that you know, but if you said it louder,
of course he's just screamed atme.
Thomas Moore (40:49):
This opinion, um, say, say.
Instead he posted that as likea post with um with his opinion
on why he thinks that, and thenhe ends up having some back and
forths in the comments withpeople and um, you know, maybe
not even change your mind, buthave all the facts or other
points of view, otherperspectives, and I think that's
(41:10):
the most important part is likewe're not getting other
perspectives and if we do, it'sjust an argument.
Cesar (41:16):
You know, it's similar to fandom in sports, where a lot
of people are, they stick to oneteam and no matter what you
tell them, no matter what thefacts are, it doesn't matter to
them.
And similarly, I see people allthe time either, whichever,
whichever side you decide to beon, either Republican or
Democrat the time, either,whichever, whichever side you
decide to be on, eitherrepublican or democrat, I'm only
democrat, I'm only going to bethink democrat.
Thomas Moore (41:37):
and in my head I'm like, why, why does it have to
be voted yeah vote blue, nomatter who or vote red until
you're dead yeah, like why don'tyou vote based on policy?
Cesar (41:48):
yeah, it's like again when you, when you're dealing
with fans of any sports team,right?
They get so emotional.
And it's all about the emotionand that emotion drives their
thinking and their logic.
It's the same thing.
When I see videos I'm like butdo you guys understand?
You're kind of voting againstyour own interests, but you're
(42:11):
voting just because it's oneside and not a lot of the time.
Thomas Moore (42:15):
Yeah, and that's also what affects, uh, like the
whole.
Don't vote independent, becausethey're just gonna lose anyway.
If you vote for this guy, it'sjust a vote for that guy instead
, because you didn't vote for myguy it's like what kind?
Victor (42:27):
of logic is this, you know I think also that, though,
there's like a severe lack ofunderstanding of civics anymore,
like do we need to bring backschoolhouse rock to?
Chris (42:37):
explain people how laws are passed.
Victor (42:39):
Yeah, or just how like governments worked, or how the
electoral college works.
Thomas Moore (42:44):
Like yeah, just because you know, as as we roll
out the beta and everything,it's actually going to be a lot
of, uh, informational typethings like that, because a lot
of people don't know thesethings.
They see one guy on X saysomething about the electoral
college, and then they just runwith it forever and then they
start saying it or why theyshould get rid of it, or
something like that.
Victor (43:02):
No, it works like this and when it's like it completely
does not work like that.
Thomas Moore (43:07):
So there's going to be a lot of different
informational sections on howyou know, not just like what I
don't want to do is just havemassive walls of text because
nobody's going to read it.
So, right, interactive,engaging.
You know ways to like simplylearn these things that break
these, these, uh, how, howeverything operates down to to
nuts and bolts, and really teachpeople all of these things.
(43:29):
I think that's a very importantaspect, right next to
respectful communication.
Knowing how everything thatyou're even talking about works
to begin with is a prettyimportant topic.
Rob (43:40):
I think it is a fan base and it's tied to people's
identities.
They are this side and that'swho they are, even if that side
veers, but it's like that's nottied to who you are.
You know you can believe insomething or there's, you know,
a gradient and you can be thisidentity.
You know there's nothing wrongwith being a middle Democrat.
(44:04):
You know there's nothing wrongwith being a conservative
Democrat or you knowconservative.
You know it's just, people tiethemselves to this team and
they're like well, we'll getthem next year.
You know conservative.
You know it's just, people tiethemselves to this team and
they're like, well, we'll getthem next year, you know like
that's it yeah.
There is no place.
And these echo chambers are.
You know, they're not justonline, they're in our community
(44:26):
.
You know people will be at workand they'll click together and
then they'll just sit in a roomand they'll just talk shop all
day I mean, I'm not gonna talkto somebody from wisconsin about
austin texas.
Thomas Moore (44:38):
They don't live here.
But where do I talk aboutaustin texas?
What like the austin subreddit?
Then it's like just controlledby like powerful mods that you
know, like they have all thispower, these mods, and
everything, and they're onlygonna let through what they
believe and it's just insane.
So there is absolutely nowhereto talk, uh, about your local
(44:59):
community, and especially tolike build a voice for yourself
and build like a reputation andwho you are.
put your ideas out there and ifyou know you gain traction,
people support you like like,where do you do that?
Right now I don't think thereis a place and I think it's
super crazy because we are sopolarized that nobody gives a
shit about local politics, evengovernors.
(45:22):
Most people can't name whotheir governor is.
There's no town hall anymore.
We have a world hall.
Basically we have X andFacebook.
Why would I talk locally topeople in Nigeria?
There's, you know it doesn'tmake any sense.
So there's nowhere to to reallymake change and you're not going
(45:42):
to make change at thepresidential federal level.
Just because you're callingpeople an idiot on X.
You're wasting your time, youknow, but this polarization has
got.
Victor (45:51):
Well, have you tried DMing Trump on Truth Social?
I heard that word, I could jumpon there, jump on truth.
Thomas Moore (45:58):
I'm sure that's not a partisan at all.
Rob (46:01):
No, not at all I'm showing my ignorance, but like how do
these mods work?
Who picks them, who puts themin place and how is it different
now with your platform?
Thomas Moore (46:11):
The same way that you would get any job show
interest and we pick you as aperson that if you've shown the
interest in wanting to build astrong community, then you get
hired to be a moderator.
And they also have toessentially be aware and agree
that they're going to be held toa very tight and high standard
of our community ethos and whatthey do.
(46:33):
I mean it will be public, andso we just kind of hope that
that will incentivize them tojust remain fair and bipartisan.
You know, nonpoliticalessentially, and just look at
the ethos and did it violatethat, yes or no?
You know the community terms ofservice but they'll be, you
know, picked based on interviewprocess, like do you want this
(46:54):
place to exist?
And just finding the best peoplethat are willing to do the job.
So you know, as I mentioned,it's an AI, human hybrid, so
they would review content thatthe AI flags and then decide
there's we didn't get into itbut with the transparency
infraction board there's aninfraction tier system as well
(47:15):
and users can see, you know, ifyou get five full infractions,
which different violations countas different levels of
infraction, like a half, astrike or whatever and then
users can see what do they haveon their account, basically?
And they fall off after certainamounts of time, and so, yeah,
the moderators are chosenessentially just through an
(47:36):
interview process and showinginterest.
Cesar (47:39):
I know you spoke about your marketing strategy earlier,
but you can always get KevinHart.
Victor (47:43):
I think he sells anything.
Rob (47:47):
Oh yeah, you'd blow up Draft kings, I'm pulling in.
Victor (47:50):
You got to get in.
Cesar (47:50):
Listen, local politics is still dominated by elderly
individuals.
I've been to a whole bunch ofneighborhood boards.
That is just a lot of oldpeople and they vote.
So how do you think you'regoing to try to attract older
members to try to join when alot of them are mostly stuck on
(48:12):
TV, mostly stuck on Facebook?
Thomas Moore (48:13):
Right, how do you think you're going to be able to
migrate?
Cesar (48:15):
that interest to yours.
Thomas Moore (48:17):
So this is, you know, probably one of the most
important questions because, ofcourse, everybody, you know,
regardless of age, I mean, Ithink we have our age limit set
to 17 to use the app.
That's the you know, becausethen they're getting ready to
vote, basically.
But the you know, obviously,like older people, are
(48:38):
absolutely more than welcome tocome and, you know, have
discourse on Paul Torium, butthe most important as not I mean
, I keep saying that aboutdifferent things because they're
all like to me they're all soimportant but an extraordinarily
important aspect of Politoreumis teaching and encouraging
younger people to become engagedin politics and, while that is
going to take some time, withouta doubt, but helping them
(49:01):
understand that politics isliterally what controls and
shapes your existence and localpolitics is all the same.
And those older people thatyou're saying that are in
politics currently, that's who Icall the gate guards.
They're elected because theyrun unopposed and then they're
elected again because, even ifthey have an opponent, they've
(49:24):
just been in city council for solong that it's just who people
vote for.
You've seen their name for thelast 20 years.
Give them the vote.
They just become an institutionYou've seen their name for the
last 20 years.
Give them the vote, they justbecome an institution.
Yeah, exactly, it isinstitutional politics and it's
exactly what I'm trying toencourage change with.
So of course, it will beencouraging older people to take
(49:55):
note and to really know whatthey're voting for and
everything.
But a big aspect of everythingwith the local is encouraging
young people to find and usetheir voice, find what they
believe and what they agree withand you know, and to to vote
it's.
You know, like there's allthose like stickers and all
those like govotecom.
You know, but like what doesthat do?
You're not even telling vote ordie.
Chris (50:11):
Yeah.
Thomas Moore (50:12):
Like you're not, it doesn't encourage young
people, like it doesn't tellthem why they're just like, oh,
it doesn't.
I'm one person.
We need, like that thoughtprocess of I'm one person, you
know, like it's again, it's verylike un-American,
anti-democracy, you know, andwe've never put the focus on
encouraging, um, younger people.
(50:32):
It's it's never been the focuson encouraging younger people.
It's never been the case wherethat's who we try to get to vote
.
Of course, like you know, sidesdo, like you know, try to
target the new voters andeverything, but that's just to
vote for a side.
But we've never encouraged andtaught them like they should be
proud that they get to vote.
A lot of people don't, you know.
So this is something that I'mreally, really trying to work
(50:57):
with with the local aspect ofPolitorium.
Cesar (50:58):
What do I sign?
Victor (50:59):
Tom, thank you so much for joining us and we appreciate
you coming on and speaking tous.
Politorium available on.
Where is it available?
Where can I get it?
Thomas Moore (51:10):
So as of 2-25-2025 , it will be available on the
iOS App Store and then aboutthree days and this is the.
It's an open beta.
So there's no you know sign upwaitlist thing to get the beta.
It's just going to be publiclyavailable on the App Store and
then a few days after that itwill be available on the Google
(51:32):
Play Store, the Android storeSame beta.
Obviously, it's cross-platformeverything, but both will be in
beta.
But we basically just want toget through the iOS approval so
we know exactly how to clone itfor Android.
We don't want to upload Androidright now.
Then they're like two differentapps.
So we're doing one at at a time,starting with ios, and then
(51:54):
android will roll out and, uh,yeah, then it'll be public
forever and we expect about amonth, um, it will be an open
beta and then it'll be the 1.0launch, full features,
everything you know.
Very nice, yep, um and uh.
Palatoriumcom is our landingpage where, um, you know, you
can kind of get all theinformation, see what it looks
(52:16):
like, everything like that.
Um, yeah, so I reallyappreciate you guys having me on
.
This is a great conversation.
I feel like talks like thisreally open up like ideas.
You know, um, like, oh, thatyou, that is an important aspect
.
So, yeah, this is great.
Rob (52:32):
Yeah, thanks a lot, Tom, for coming on.
Thank you.
Thomas Moore (52:35):
Thank you guys.
Yeah, hope to talk to you again.
Rob (52:38):
I'll be signing up tomorrow , so you'll see me.
Sounds good, sounds good.
Victor (52:43):
I expect to see you guys , the first one that violates
all infractions.
Thomas Moore (52:48):
All right, we'll see you later.
Victor (52:49):
All right.
Rob (52:50):
So, guys, final thoughts.
Chris (53:00):
Don't ask me first because I gotta think about it.
That leaves you, chris, finalthoughts.
Um, yeah, so I think the ideaof it, or the concept what he's
trying to present or to bring itto the public, is like it is
pretty cool, like I don't.
I don't, I've never seen one,seen anything like that.
Um, so, hopefully, good luck tohim and hopefully it works.
Hopefully that this will give alot of people to have a safe
place for them to talk politics.
Yeah, I think it's a reallygood idea overall.
Rob (53:20):
Rob.
Yeah, listen, there's a needfor this right.
There is no uh, safe space forpeople to talk about things and
get a lot of information out.
And you know the way Tom'sdoing it.
He's doing it in a sustainableway.
He's not just thinking he'srunning a business, so he's not
just thinking about shareholders, he's thinking about his
stakeholders.
So he's creating this platform.
(53:41):
He's dealing with all theseother issues that it takes to
run this business.
But then he might have to comeup with like a tiered approach
or to generate revenue, but Ilike the approach, I'm looking
forward to it when it comes outand I'll definitely be on there.
Victor (53:56):
And Cesar.
Cesar (53:58):
I think this is a really cool tool that can be used,
because one of the biggestthings about politics is that no
one really talks about policies.
Emotions is all, identity,right.
So how do we kind of moveforward with just everything?
So I think this is, you know, areally good place for
(54:19):
level-headed people to try tolike, actually make positive
change.
Even if you don't really agreewith someone else, at least you
can talk policies and ultimately, at the end of the day, that's
what it comes down to.
That's what's going to move thecountry forward.
That's what's going going tosolve a lot of these problems
that we currently have or any ofthe problems that are going to
happen in the future.
I think it's a good stepforward.
I think there's a need for this, especially now and as the
(54:42):
country becomes more and moredivisive.
I think his user base is goingto just continue to grow.
Chris (54:47):
Can I say something again ?
Don't something again.
Don't copy me, chris.
No, I'm not, it's final.
She said what you had to say.
No, but based on what you said,I think that being this the
place, being the safe place, islike gonna be the key right,
because you're saying stuffwithout getting shit on and,
plus that, you get to connectwith people of your sense, like
I said, like feelings andthoughts, your beliefs and stuff
(55:09):
.
But I think that's gonna be thekey point to this platform,
where you can actually beyourself, I guess, and without
getting shit on, pretty much.
Cesar (55:18):
Chris.
Chris (55:21):
I just said that.
You just said that in Korean, Iknow, but that's why I know.
Victor (55:26):
But when he said that, I was like, yeah, you're right,
that is once again, we want tothank Thomas more for joining us
and please check out his app,palatorium, available now on ios
and soon to be on android.
We want to thank you forlistening, but before I let you
go, I want you to find thatshare button and send this to a
friend and help spread the goodword of the I'm not dumb but
(55:48):
podcast.
Also check out our YouTubechannel at I'm Not Dumb but
Podcast for more fun content.
Until next time, stay curious.
Chris (55:57):
Later.
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