October 30, 2024 • 34 mins
What if one company could be both a beloved snack maker and a corporate villain? Join us as we unpack the multifaceted saga of Nestlé, a global giant with a history as rich as its chocolate. From trying to help infant mortality rates to the modern-day controversies that haunt the brand, we explore the evolution of an empire that’s as complex as it is ubiquitous.
We shine a light on the infamous 1970s baby formula scandal that rocked the world and question the ethical dilemmas faced by companies and consumers alike. How does one reconcile the convenience of a trusted brand with its less savory business practices? We navigate the moral minefield of modern consumerism, challenging you to rethink what you know about the brands on your shelves.
The episode continues in a critical turn as we address Nestlé's environmental footprint, especially its controversial water extraction methods. Join us for a thought-provoking dialogue that leaves you questioning not just the ethics of corporations, but the power of your purchasing decisions.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Rob (00:00):
What do you guys think about when you hear some of
these brands Kit Kat, erection,l'oreal?
Cesar (00:06):
Definitely Boner.
Rob (00:07):
What about Purina Hand cream?
Purina is a hand cream.
Chris (00:12):
Oh, I think it said.
Rob (00:12):
Purell.
Chris (00:13):
I was going to say, yeah, isn't that a duck food?
Victor (00:15):
Yeah, Victor, what do you feed your cat?
He gets a can of wet food a day.
Anything friskies cannot be, uhpate, so he likes friskies.
Tried giving him that bluebuffalo, like that, all natural
shit, because I was like I wantmy cat to be healthy.
Fucking hates it.
Try the signature selects is itmore expensive?
Cesar (00:34):
it's, it's, yeah, it's about 129 a can what do you
think I'm made of money?
Rob (00:38):
jesus christ, that's what my cat gets.
Cesar (00:42):
I only get her the morsels.
Rob (00:44):
Your cat lives large bro yeah.
Cesar (00:47):
Yeah.
Rob (00:48):
I'm buying single white albacore tuna on sale and this
thing's getting duck pate.
So what if I told you a lot ofthese household brands were
owned by a single company?
I'm not surprised.
Monsanto Close, Kit Kat,L'Oreal, Stouffer's, Purina
Friskies are all brands underthe umbrella of Nestle.
(01:12):
I'm not dumb, but what's thestory behind Nestle?
Cesar (01:16):
Welcome to the I'm Not Dumb but Podcast, where we won't
claim to have the answers tolife's deepest questions.
Victor (01:21):
But we'll give you an exciting journey into the realms
of knowledge you never knewyou'd be in.
Cesar (01:25):
Might be mainstream, but not common knowledge.
From artificial intelligence toconspiracy theories, no topic
is too taboo for us to explore.
Let's get curious together.
Rob (01:36):
I'm Rob, your host for today, joined by our incredibly
talented co-host, chris.
What's up, our boy, victor?
Victor (01:43):
How y'all doing.
And well, you know, caesar Yo,am I getting a degree after this
fucking episode?
You're not getting shit.
Rob (01:50):
You're not getting shit.
You're getting a Regentsdiploma which is worth shit.
Victor (01:54):
I've been up in here trying to get a motherfucking
scholarship.
Rob (01:56):
So what do you guys know about Nestle Nesquik, Nesquik
that's guys think about oh anduh, the crunch, nestle crunch.
Chris (02:02):
Yeah, the nestle crunch ain't bad, really good chocolate
, like I think of chocolate if Ihear that, yeah all right.
Rob (02:08):
So let's get, let's get in the time machine, let's go back,
you guys ready.
Chris (02:11):
Okay, we're going back.
What?
Victor (02:12):
chris, watch your knees yeah, get in this time machine
we're going in victor.
Rob (02:16):
Set it to 1814 1814 did you do?
It's asking for a softwareupdate.
Yeah, you gotta ignore, justignore it.
Chris (02:23):
Ignore it, just hit the button let's go.
Let's go, we're here.
Rob (02:43):
The year is 1814, and Henrik Nestle, born in Frankfurt
, germany, the 11th child of 14.
And he had some pretty humblebeginnings.
But our boy Henrik, he's prettysmart.
He studied chemistry and in1834, he actually completed an
apprenticeship to be apharmacist.
Victor (03:02):
So at the age of 20, he was practicing pharmacy In 1834,
.
I mean, how hard is it to be apharmacist?
Rob (03:06):
I don't think it's that hard.
I don't think.
Well, he did like a four-yearapprenticeship, okay.
Cesar (03:10):
So he got like a lot of oxycodone.
Rob (03:11):
He mixed a lot of stuff together.
Victor (03:13):
We have more books now and microscopes.
We have microscopes.
They didn't have microscopes,Caesar microscopes.
Yeah, they had microscopes yougot to have a microscope.
Science.
Rob (03:25):
So our boy was pretty smart , practicing pharmacy, but he's
looking for something a littlebit more.
That time there wasn't a lot ofopportunity in Frankfurt,
germany, so he moves over toSwitzerland to find some work.
Oh, switzerland.
So he moved to this town calledVevey it was a French-speaking
area of Switzerland and he'slooking to make some coin.
He starts selling differenttypes of products, stuff that he
(03:51):
can make Making rum, makingvinegars, nut oils, gas
fertilizer.
He's doing anything to try toget some cash.
Chris (03:59):
Wait, wait.
So he's just mixing shit justto see what he can sell.
Pretty much, yeah, he'screating products.
Rob (04:05):
He's creating products.
He's creating products.
He had a pretty goodentrepreneurial mind and he was
pretty good at chemistry, sothis sounds annoying to be his
friend.
Victor (04:13):
It's like, hey, how's the vinegar business going?
Nope, drop, that I'm doingfertilizer now.
I'm doing fertilizer.
Shit's fucking crazy.
The vinegar game didn't workout.
I'm switched to fertilizer.
Next week I'm going to rum.
Cesar (04:25):
By the way, two for one, special tonight Only for you
Always be closing.
Rob (04:33):
He changed his name to Henri Nestle, sounded a little
more French.
He wanted to fit in.
Basically, now, in this time,europe had just come out of this
industrial revolution and therewas a lot of economic upheaval,
a lot of malnutrition, a lot ofinfant mortality rates were on
a steep decline.
So our boy Henri, you know,he's been selling all these
(04:53):
products and he starts thinkinglike maybe I can do something
with this.
He decides to go on and tacklethe infant mortality business
you want to ask what it is or no.
Victor (05:05):
I know what infant mortality is.
Chris (05:06):
Can I get a definition please?
You know what infant mortalitybusiness.
Do you want to ask what it isor no?
I know what infant mortality is.
Rob (05:09):
Can I get a definition please?
You don't know what infantmortality is, Chris.
No, A lot of babies were dying.
It just wasn't a good time.
You can't make a joke aboutthis Watch me Canceled.
So there's one specific topic helikes or one specific problem
he decides to go after.
He wants to go and try to solvethe problem with women who
cannot breastfeed.
So there was an issue with somewomen who were unable to
(05:31):
breastfeed at the time he had agood idea about chemistry.
He was in pharmacies too.
I had an idea of like what thebody needed and he decides to
develop this thing called umformula.
Well, he called it farine laction re nestle.
What a fucking name oh, no waythat's crazy, yeah, which
basically means milk flour milkflour bro milk flour, and all it
(05:54):
was was just wheat flour,condensed milk and sugar.
It was it powdered.
It was powdered in a powderedform.
You just add water and you'rejust add water to go, and then
you put it on your breast andthen you pour it on and then you
mix it in.
There's a video, just look itup.
Victor (06:12):
That was creepy.
That's not how this works.
Rob (06:14):
Yeah, so this was the early stages of baby formula and it
was a huge, huge success.
It was so big that heimmediately had to make a
factory afterward to process allthe orders.
So this, basically, is whatpositioned nestle into the food
industry now.
He did this in 1867.
He was nearly 50 years old whenhe decided to do this.
Victor (06:35):
Never give up never give up motivation for me yeah, one
day, when you're 50, you canopen up a factory making, yeah,
breasts I'm going to write adown.
Chris (06:44):
Do I really do that.
Victor (06:45):
Just hire a bunch of Cambodians, put them on like
pumps.
I only drink the finest breastmilks.
Rob (06:51):
But apparently it was a thing like Cambodians they would
supplement breast milk foranimal milks for women who
couldn't breastfeed.
The big thing that maybe wouldhave interested him into this
idea was that they had just comeup with like crazy good farming
efficiencies, so milk wasabundant, like everywhere.
(07:12):
The problem is that theycouldn't refrigerate it, so milk
was going rancid.
So he was like milk's cheap.
I got grain to push.
I know how to make this formulaI can really get rid of.
I can get really rich off this.
So there was some, uh, reallygood intentions behind it.
Victor (07:27):
Or maybe he was just a money maker I think he was just
a money maker, because this guywent from like fucking
fertilizer pharmacist.
This guy was just seeing whatmade money I'm impressed.
Chris (07:37):
Yeah, definitely, yeah, very impressive.
Victor (07:38):
He would have been on.
He would have been on sharktank every other fucking week
yeah, pitching a new idea.
Cesar (07:43):
He would have been a shark too.
Victor (07:49):
At 50 something years old and he'd be like listen, I
was like you once.
How much money do you want forthis?
I'll give you $10,000 for 20%of your company.
Cesar (07:54):
And two bottles of fertilizer that I just made,
take it or leave it, and abottle of breath milk.
Chris (07:59):
It's one of the worst ideas I've ever seen.
I'm out.
Rob (08:01):
He makes a lot of money and he's pretty well off at this
point.
One of his neighbors actuallywas in the area.
His name was Daniel Peter.
He was trying to mix chocolate.
They had chocolate, but it wasdark chocolate.
It was very bitter.
He wanted to make a verycleaner, tastier version of this
chocolate.
He got introduced to Henri andHenri was like well, you have
too much water in your milk andyou need to basically bring it
(08:23):
down.
So how about you buy yourcondensed milk from me?
And that took off like took off.
And this was the guy who mademilk chocolate.
Victor (08:33):
Wait, he invented milk chocolate.
Rob (08:35):
Yeah, this guy, Daniel Peter, invented milk chocolate.
Henri helped him make milkchocolate using his condensed
milk.
Immediately after that theymerged together and created the
Nestle company.
Victor (08:46):
So it wasn't.
Rob (08:46):
Hershey.
Hershey and Mars were around atthis time also.
They were selling chocolate.
This guy, daniel Peter, was theguy who created milk chocolate.
So that's how Nestle basicallywent from the food industry and
then transferred over into whatwe know them as a chocolate
company.
So at this point Nestle's likeI am ridiculously rich.
(09:07):
So he's like you know what I'mgoing to retire Sells his
company to like three localbusinessmen for like 100 or 1
million Swiss francs 1 millionin 1875?
Chris (09:20):
Swiss francs.
Rob (09:21):
Can you get a conversion rate on that?
Cesar (09:22):
$30 million.
Victor (09:24):
That's nothing $ 30 million dollars, how many
millions do you?
Cesar (09:27):
have a lot, but they're in bonds.
I can't touch it, you know.
Victor (09:32):
Yeah, yeah and someone none of it's liquid, yeah it
doesn't exist, it's never landed, it is no matter, it's not on
the elemental chart I thoughtyou were gonna be like oh, this
is where he turned evil, becausethat would have been a cooler
story no, no no, this is when hestarts getting into weird sex,
pedophilia, shit.
Chris (09:52):
This is where it turns with chocolate.
You never take candy from astranger getting like
prostitutes left and rightthrowing them in in vats of
chocolate.
Victor (10:02):
I'm the candy man.
Bitches, not sex parties.
Rob (10:05):
Yeah, he sells his company in 1875 but this is where the
story starts to veer off thepath of a nice guy trying to
solve the world's problems andwhere we start to see this
multinational company come intoplay.
So what they would do is theywould start to buy up the
(10:26):
competition anytime they sawsomething come up.
So in 1905, they were like allright, we would really want to
push this chocolate all aroundEurope.
They acquired this companycalled Anglo-Swiss Condensed
Milk and they didn't stop there.
Anytime a company would come upthey would try to buy it.
And, as Victor was saying, youhad Hershey's, you had Mars bars
in the game.
So they wanted to staycompetitive and not just be a
(10:49):
chocolate company.
So they would acquire tons ofother companies.
They got into powdered coffeeand then later on in the 60s and
the 70s, they would start toacquire companies like L'Oreal,
nespresso in the 1980s, otherchocolate companies like Kit Kat
in the 1980s, purina, alpo, petfood companies, because they
(11:10):
wanted to basically staycompetitive in the market.
Chris (11:13):
So a lot of products they have is stuff they acquired,
not they created or they madeExactly.
Rob (11:18):
So they made a lot of money up front and then they just
started diversifying to be thishuge multinational conglomerate.
Victor (11:26):
They've never been in trouble, though financially.
Rob (11:28):
No, they've actually done pretty good.
They have been in trouble PRwise.
In the 1970s for Rhin-Lactethey had the baby formula
products.
Demand started to decrease forbaby formula.
When your demand drops forsomething, cesar, give me some
MBA, speak here what's anactivity a company can do to
promote or sell their products?
Cesar (11:51):
I have no idea.
I missed that class.
Victor (11:54):
MBA hard at work over there.
Yeah, I'm starting to thinkit's you.
Rob (11:59):
You advertise, you advertise, you advertise.
Victor (12:02):
Marketing.
Rob (12:03):
Marketing.
Victor (12:04):
I don't have an MBA.
I didn't fucking know that,influencers the Hulk, you
advertise for marketing.
I don't have an MBA.
I didn't fucking know that,influencers the Hulk, the Hulk
wants you to buy formula.
Cesar (12:14):
Think about it.
Rob (12:16):
It's big and strong.
This was brought to you byShe-Hulk.
Victor (12:19):
You can't imagine the commercial there About that.
Rob (12:24):
It's true I am a Hulk, so we remember the idea that Nestle
was coming up with right it wasthis alternative to breast milk
.
Right now, breast milk isrecommended for babies by the
World Health Organization,UNICEF, American Medical Society
.
All these companies are sayingthat breast milk is better than
baby formula.
I always thought formula wasway better.
Chris (12:43):
I thought formula was more of like a supplement to the
breast milk.
Cesar (12:53):
I don't know anything about formula Cesar.
No, it was designed as asupplement for women that can't,
you know, naturally producebreast milk.
Rob (12:56):
Nestle didn't like that idea.
Well, of course not.
Their formula company wasactually one of their highest
profit margins and when itstarted to tank in the 1970s,
they didn't like this idea of analternative or supplement.
So they started an aggressivemarketing campaign to undermine
breast milk and started makingclaims that baby formula was
better for babies than breastmilk.
Nestle would pay off doctorsand nurses to tell mothers that
(13:20):
baby formula was better thanbreast milk.
Cesar (13:22):
That's not good.
Victor (13:23):
Wow, but did they like line it with like vitamins and
shit?
Rob (13:27):
It was just wheat, flour and cereal.
If you couldn't breastfeed, itwas good because it had natural
fats and it had carbs and sugarsand it had something, but it is
no way in any way better thanbreast milk.
But Nestle decided we got totake this one step further.
They started killing mothers.
Cesar (13:43):
Yeah, that's right, took a dark turn.
Rob (13:46):
When you guys go into Costco, what do you look forward
to?
Free samples.
And that's exactly what Nestledid.
We'll provide free samples atthe maternity wards and at home
to women who have just had givenbirth to babies.
Actually, what they would do isthey would dress up their
saleswomen in nurses' outfits.
That's hot and they would walkdown the maternity halls pushing
(14:08):
baby formula, wow.
And they would tell mothers andthey would even make house
calls telling them that hey,listen, this is better.
Here's a bunch of free samples.
Let us know what you need.
They would provide enoughformula to stop the natural
breast milk production of themother and then, after they
would do that, the mothers hadabsolutely no choice but to
(14:30):
continue to buy the formula.
So now they've increased theirmarket share from people who
can't breastfeed and they'vemade people who can not be able
to Dick move Nestle, dick move.
What year?
is this roughly this is in the1970s.
They do this everywhere.
They did it in Europe.
Roughly this is in the 1970s.
They do this everywhere.
They did it in europe, they didin the states, except there was
(14:51):
some pr stuff coming out andthey started to realize that
this is probably not a good idea.
What they had to do wasbasically keep it going.
So what they were doing, theywould go into these
underdeveloped nations and dothese same exact practices and
try to get these women to stopnaturally breastfeeding and then
force their hand.
Except there was one caveat.
What did you need for thisformula to work?
(15:15):
Water, exactly.
But yo, no worries, man, thebrilliant minds at Nestle have
got us covered.
They would provide instructionsin English, of course.
It was simple.
All you had to do was wash yourhands and add clean drinking
water.
And if you didn't have cleandrinking water, well then all
(15:36):
you had to do was boil yourwater using an electric stove to
kill the bacteria.
Cesar (15:41):
If they didn't have access to cleaning water, I
don't think they're going tohave access to a stove and and
market, women who couldn't reador write.
Victor (15:52):
Did no one do any research whatsoever before doing
this?
Rob (15:56):
I mean, did they not do research, or was this part of
the plan?
Chris (15:58):
Because it's all part of the plan.
Rob (16:01):
Since many of the people didn't have access to clean
water, a lot of the babies weregetting sick and the cost alone
was killing them.
So what they would do is, in away to basically save some money
, the mothers would dilute thebaby formula, which is just
worse for you anyway and theywould just dilute it with even
more water to try to cut it tobe able to get the formula to
(16:23):
last longer.
So the babies who weren'tgetting sick were now becoming
extremely malnourished.
Victor (16:30):
That's not good.
Rob (16:31):
No, how do you think that these companies get so far away
from their ethos?
Cesar (16:36):
Greed, it's simple.
You want to make more profit?
Yeah, it's simple.
Victor (16:39):
Oh no, I was going to say because they're Swiss.
Oh.
Rob (16:42):
What does that have to do with anything?
The Swiss are notoriouslyassholes.
Really Are they?
Victor (16:47):
That's why they're always neutral in everything.
They don't take sides.
They're just like we're justhere on the sidelines with our
chocolate thinking about plansto kill babies.
Cesar (16:57):
I have no idea what I'm asking you Swiss dick is.
Are you going to fuck me over?
Rob (17:03):
Don't you think that these companies have a right to
protect the people that they'reselling to?
Victor (17:08):
companies don't give a fuck.
They're not people, that,they're just entities.
And then, for some reason, whenyou put a bunch of people
behind the the shield of acompany, they think that they're
.
There's enough separationbetween that and the people that
they're fucking killing that,uh, they don't give a fuck yeah,
pretty.
Chris (17:24):
Pretty sure they have a group of lawyers that goes
through all the regulations andall that stuff and trying to
find a loophole.
Victor (17:31):
You're talking about?
Would a CEO that has to dealwith stockholders and stock
prices give a shit about the endproduct?
But he's passing it on to amid-level manager who's all he's
thinking about is I'm going toget fired if I don't come up
with a new idea or more moneyfor my department.
So yeah, let's try somethingelse.
Oh, how does it affectsomething?
(17:52):
I will give the fuck.
Cesar (17:54):
I need to make money because I don't get fired,
because my kids need to eat allthese companies operate under
the one simple thing, bro, it'sbetter to ask for forgiveness
than to do it the right way.
The first time there's beenstories that where they
calculated if we fuck up and dothings the right way, it's more
expensive than just paying thepr hit later on.
And that's what.
Victor (18:14):
That's literally how they, how they operate you can
always negotiate an apology ifyou have to pay someone off.
That can be negotiated and yousend your team of lawyers to
fucking do it.
Cesar (18:24):
It's not new to nestle.
It's not new to any of thesecompanies.
They do the same thing over andover again Because by the time
it comes to light, you're goingto have a new executive board
making the decisions.
So at the end of the day,there's no accountability or
nothing.
But then again, what's thepoint of having fuck you money?
Rob (18:38):
if you never say fuck you.
In 1974, this expose called thebaby killer came out, and it
created an international scandalwhere people started boycotting
their products.
Four years later, nestle wasbrought to the US Senate to
answer for its tactics and as aresult, a lot of developing
nations created new regulationswhere companies could not come
(19:00):
out and straight up say thatbaby formula was better or equal
to breast milk.
So what Nestle decided to dowas just double down on
non-developed nations andcontinue to aggressively market
this in parts of Southeast Asia.
Cesar (19:17):
It's a big argument in the hospitals, people will plant
their flag on either side.
Rob (19:23):
Really, really Still.
Cesar (19:23):
Still.
Chris (19:24):
No, yes, still, Still, I for one listen Breast milk.
Cesar (19:26):
Still, no, yes, still Still.
I for one, listen Breast milk,of course, because it's natural.
If you're not producing enoughor if the child is still hungry,
you can always supplement itwith formula Protein powder.
Victor (19:39):
That means formula.
Rob (19:40):
Yeah, yeah.
What do they say in thehospitals Like do they want whey
or way concentrate?
Cesar (19:46):
I think they do.
I don't give a shit where mygains come from.
Rob (19:50):
I mean.
So Nestle came into some heatthe past couple years, you know.
Now they're running into somemore heat with bottled water.
So in 2013, it got some heatfor diverting clean drinking
water from villages in Pakistanto their factories and then
selling that bottled water backto the people.
And if they couldn't afford it,then they would have to go and
drink the contaminated or sludgewater in the areas.
(20:13):
It just seems like this is likeNestle's tactic.
Victor (20:17):
I think if they figure out a way to sell clean air,
they will literally suck the airout of the sky.
Cesar (20:24):
Oh it's coming, Bottle it , what's going to happen?
And then just go.
Hey, do you need air?
Victor (20:28):
For $1.50, you can get an hour's worth of air.
Are you just breathing?
Rob (20:32):
regular air.
You know that shit will kill.
Victor (20:34):
You Are you suffocating right now?
Rob (20:36):
Well, that shit will kill you.
Victor (20:38):
Not as low as my low low prices.
Rob (20:40):
That's a great idea.
Cesar (20:43):
I saw this show.
The air was poisonous and thiscompany was selling these canned
air.
What we found out later on wasthe same company that was
selling the canned air wasactually continuing to poison
the atmosphere.
So the air was continuing to bepoisonous.
Chris (20:59):
Wait, was that some Korean show?
Yes, chris, it'll miss.
Rob (21:11):
Not only were they doing this in Pakistan, they brought
it close to home.
So you guys remember, in 2016,with California was suffering an
extreme drought.
Chris (21:20):
Yeah, yeah, with.
Rob (21:20):
California was suffering an extreme drought.
Yeah yeah, nestle decided thatit was a good idea to go ahead
and extract 27 million gallonsof clean water from the natural
forests in Southern Californiato fill up their Arrowhead water
bottles.
Chris (21:35):
Dick move right.
Rob (21:36):
In 2016,.
They were pumping all the water, they acquired a license for
$524 that actually expired in1988.
But because they were pumpingall the water, they acquired a
license for $524.
That actually expired in 1988.
But because they were able tocontinue to make the annual fee
payment, it was automaticallyextended years later and then,
basically, when the Californiagovernment came under scrutiny,
they said, no, everything seemsright here because they've been
(21:57):
making their $524 annualpayments, so they were just
pumping all this water out.
I mean, have you ever drankArrowhead bottled water?
It's fucking disgusting.
It's like the worst water I'veever drank.
Chris (22:08):
Never heard of it.
So as long as you have alicense, you can just pump the
water as much as you want.
Victor (22:14):
When do they put out these licenses right?
Like 40 years ago If yourtown's population is 40,000, in
1980, and like 40 years ago ifyour town's population is 40,000
in 1980, and you got all thisfucking water that you're not
using.
Yeah, let's get a little extramoney to the town and sell it to
this company.
Now it's 2024, your townpopulation grew fucking 100% and
(22:35):
now you actually need thatwater.
But no one's ever looked backto see hey, let's check these
licenses.
And also, at this point, thetown doesn't want to lose that
money.
So do you think?
Rob (22:43):
that this is a problem with companies, or do you think this
is a problem with governmentsand regulation?
Cesar (22:48):
Companies are designed to skirt, as you know, regulations
.
Rob (22:52):
So that's what gets me is like you know, you hear all
these things about these massivecompanies doing all these
things, but they're legallyallowed to do it.
Victor (23:02):
I would say some of their practices are shady
because they do have theirlobbying arms that kind of lean
the government to certain waysor another.
But in the end I feel it'sstill local government and
regulations that needs to putthem in check.
It's like having a pet tiger.
Rob (23:17):
I mean, that's just a terrible idea.
Victor (23:18):
Right, but if it scratches you or if it bites you
, you can't get mad at it,because it's a tiger and that's
what it does.
The companies are the samething.
Companies are fucking assholesand they'll try to screw any
which way to get some profit.
So when they try to do it, youcan't really get mad at them,
because they're just doing whatthey want to do to get money.
There has to be a government orlaws in place to keep them in
check and unfortunately, nogovernment official is going to
(23:41):
go after a big company.
Rob (23:43):
Why not?
Cesar (23:44):
Jobs security.
A lot of these companies.
What do they do?
They provide jobs for thesurrounding environment.
Chris (23:51):
And I'm pretty sure they're getting something on the
side too.
Rob (23:55):
Nestle is also dealing with this plastic crisis also.
We know that basically 90% ofplastics are not getting
recycled.
So a lot of these big companiesare one of the huge, largest
polluters of plastics in theworld.
Because of the whole plasticwater bottles, Nestle is the
third largest plastic polluterin the world.
(24:17):
They pollute about 1.7 milliontons of plastics a year.
What does that mean?
1.4 million Toyotas, Chris.
Chris (24:27):
Oh, that makes sense.
Victor (24:29):
Gotcha.
I'll just say this though wepassed laws to not give out
plastic bags anymore and Ibitched when they stopped doing
it, but I do not give a shit atthis point.
I just bring my bags to thefucking grocery store Right same
here.
Chris (24:41):
It became part of my like everyday life.
Victor (24:42):
It became a normal thing If they came out with a thing
saying no more plastic bottledwater.
Either use glass or haverefillable stations everywhere,
or whatever the fuck they comeup with.
It'll be a bitch at first, butgive it like a month and no one
will give a shit.
Cesar (25:02):
No, I completely of a shit.
Victor (25:03):
No, I completely disagree they came after my soda
.
Cesar (25:05):
You're not gonna come after my plastic bottles.
You don't need 30 ounces offucking soda.
Rob (25:08):
Yes, I do tell me how much soda I need, bro I take all the
plastic bottles and then it's afree country.
You're not my supervisor.
See, I use the plastic bagsfrom the grocery store to, like
you know, wrap my food in,because fucking tupperware
containers they just aredesigned to leak, right, so they
fucking leak all over my bag.
They leak in my lunchbox.
(25:28):
So what I do is, as my wife'spicking the most inefficient way
to run through the grocerystore, I head straight to the
produce I do perimeter and thenlanes In the produce section.
Victor (25:41):
The produce is perimeter .
Rob (25:42):
Okay.
Victor (25:43):
It's like vegetables, deli and bread, and then it's
meats, and then it's milks,yogurts, cheeses, whatever, and
then I just choose which lane Ineed to go into, Either like
because you know, maybe I needpasta and rice.
I'll go into that lane.
I need some cans of beans.
I go into that lane.
I need some cans of beans.
Rob (26:00):
Go into that lane and then out.
Yeah, I go straight to theproduce and I just start ripping
all those plastic bags out ofthere and I shove it into my
fucking canvas.
Those are shit, though itdoesn't matter, it still gets
what I need done.
If you go right now and checkevery single one of my garbage
pails, you're going to find,like a fucking tomato sticker
(26:22):
Squat.
You're going to find all thatshit.
That's how I get through.
These are tough times.
What Nestle likes to do is theylike to partner with dictators?
Victor (26:34):
Oh, I'm sure North Korea can use some bottled water.
Rob (26:38):
So one really good one that I was reading about is this uh,
robert mugabe, the dictator ofzimbabwe, who's uh I don't know
if you guys know his work, buthe's he's very big with uh
bribery election bringing ingenocide okay, didn't he have
that hit single for a while?
Victor (26:56):
he's an r&B singer.
Rob (26:57):
So his wife, Grace Mugabe, made a deal with Nestle and
basically sourced 15% of theirmilk for their condensed milk
and other products that theymade through their farms.
Cesar (27:11):
So how did they do this Probably.
Find them on LinkedIn.
Send them a message.
Hey, this is what we need.
Can I have 15 minutes to talkabout it?
Rob (27:20):
That's one way to do it.
Victor (27:22):
I thought that was funny , cesar.
I thought that was funny,caesar.
Rob (27:24):
I thought that was funny.
I don't know that was all right.
I mean, I was like waiting forsomeone to laugh.
I'm in the zone, you guys gottalaugh.
We'll add that in there.
You can't partner withdictators.
Victor (27:37):
Yeah, you can we do it all the time.
The US loves dictators.
Are you kidding me?
Rob (27:41):
Yeah, but we do it legally, and so did Nestle.
The Mugabes were bound by USand EU sanctions, but the way
they got around with this isthey said well, we're a Swiss
company and we're not part ofthe EU and we're neutral Because
of that, so they would go aheadand just partner with
dictatorships.
One of their last partnershipswas with Belarus.
(28:04):
They indirectly fund theBelarusian government by
marketing Nestle products ontheir state television.
One in three commercials onstate TV is a Nestle commercial,
for either some sort of Nestleproduct.
Cesar (28:22):
Realistically, they have so many products under them that
, unless you're unless you'regoing to boycott 2 000 products,
like pretty much everything,what are you going to do?
What are you going to do?
And you're only one person orone family, you're going to
continue to use these products.
Do you really think?
Do you really look at productsand say, oh, nestle did it,
they're still dealing with, uh,dictators.
No, find a product that youwant or a product that you need,
(28:43):
get it at the best price.
Nestle did it.
They're still dealing withdictators.
Rob (28:47):
No, find a product that you want or a product that you need
, get it at the best price, andif they're the best price, take
it and keep it moving.
Chris (28:52):
Yeah, I think that's all consumers care about is the
price.
Victor (28:54):
Unfortunately, price is the price, yo.
So Nestle makes Cheeriosoutside of the US and Canada.
General Mills makes Cheeriosinside the Us and canada.
Rob (29:05):
oh they make the giorno as well.
Yo that pizza's bomb, though.
I went to go pick up a giornopizza because I was like I
really want like a giorno pizza.
She was like 20, I'm just gonnago to a pizzeria and fucking
get like a fresh pizza for like15 no, pizzas are 20, a regular
cheese is yeah but are you gonnaget a di giorno pizza, or like
a high quality, or like a highquality made by, like you know,
(29:29):
an albanian guy?
Cesar (29:31):
yeah, I'm gonna get the journal.
Rob (29:34):
It's not delivery, it's di giorno but you know, the one of
the biggest things that theyteach now, and that people tend
to follow brands, is the missionof the brand.
A lot of brands will be like,oh, we're sustainably, we're big
on sustainability.
Or you have like the Toms andyou have the Warby Parkers, who
are giving like free glasses orshoes to underprivileged people
(29:58):
and they are supporting andgiving back to Cool.
Cesar (30:01):
I get, get that, I get those and that that's cool.
Rob (30:04):
But do you think that that if that trend keeps that,
companies like nestle are behind?
Cesar (30:09):
you know what esg right, those environmental?
I heard companies are scalingback on that stuff because at
the end of the day it's allprice.
Victor (30:19):
Ethics is like a luxury when price doesn't fucking
matter.
If I'm going to buy extra moneyfor Tom's shoes, because an
extra 20 bucks for Tom's shoes?
Because they're going to givesome underprivileged guy a pair
of shoes in some country thatI've never fucking heard of, I
feel great about myself.
Sure, until my economy goesdown, or until inflation goes up
(30:39):
and my dollar doesn't go as farfor myself, everyone starts
cutting back, because that's howfar morality goes these days.
I'm buying store brand.
Okay, I'm down to store brand.
Rob (30:53):
I'm down to Signature America.
Victor (30:57):
I'm down to Bowling Basket.
Okay, that's all that's goinginto my cart and broke.
Rob (31:02):
When I first started reading about Nestle, I was like
this is great.
But after you read it, they geta lot of negative PR and people
are saying, oh, they're a badcompany.
Like you said, if you have atiger and it scratches you, are
you really surprised?
I think it's one of thosethings with Nestle Corporation.
You got to basically tame thetiger.
You got to do something with it.
(31:23):
You can't expect thesecompanies to have your best
interest, if it's.
Chris (31:28):
I thought, when you said Nestle, I thought we're going to
talk about chocolate.
We did, chris.
Victor (31:33):
I know.
But yeah, tell them, chris,that chocolate's bathed in blood
.
I know, I didn't know it wasgoing to be blood chocolate.
Rob (31:39):
That's actually what they call it.
Why do you think the Kit Katwrappers are red?
That's actually what they callit?
Because I mean, when I wasreading, they're basically all
these major chocolate companiessource their chocolate from West
Africa and what they do is theyhave to get it from these local
farmers.
They're poor and they have tonsof kids and they can't afford
(32:00):
to send them to school, so theymake the kids work on the farms
and then what a lot of kids doin the surrounding regions is
they'll bust these children overand force them to work on these
farms for like $9 a week.
Since 2005, they have madepromises that like, okay, we're
going to cut down on like childlabor and unpaid workers Every
(32:25):
year that they hit theirmilestone.
They do absolutely nothingabout it.
Victor (32:29):
Slav.
You're making him feel bad,Stop.
Chris (32:31):
All right, no more chocolate.
I'm not getting any chocolatewasted anymore All Halloween.
Victor (32:36):
I just ate two bags of Kit Kats like not too long ago.
Chris (32:40):
That's a Nestle product.
How dare?
Rob (32:42):
you, it tasted like guilt.
Cesar (32:44):
I'm ashamed of myself.
Rob (32:45):
So what do you guys think?
Key takeaways Teaser.
Cesar (32:49):
At this point, all of it is business strategy, right,
like, can you really fault them?
It's a company that it's goingto do whatever it can to
maximize its profits.
Am I going to boycott any oftheir products?
Probably not.
Can to maximize his profits.
Am I gonna boycott any otherproducts?
Probably not, because at thispoint it doesn't really affect
me that much.
I don't know, chris, what areyour thoughts?
Chris (33:07):
okay, I don't think I'm not like caesar and victor said,
I'm not gonna boycott them justbecause it is about the price,
you know.
So I mean it sucks that theywere like killing babies, moms.
Business is business, you know.
They just have to do what theyhave to do.
Again, I don't really care or Idon't, it's not, it doesn't
affect my life, it doesn'taffect you know chris is about
(33:29):
to use every nesli productchocolate, milk, lotion.
Victor (33:32):
I don't care, victor I urge all 10 of our listeners.
I think we have 19 now all 19of our listeners.
Rob (33:38):
I think we have 19 now.
Victor (33:40):
All 19 of our listeners.
No, I urge anyone who listensto this.
I urge you to find out whereyour local water supply comes
from and I urge you to juststart reaching out to entities
and being like what are youdoing to make sure my water's
clean and what are you doing tomake sure that Nestle isn't
going to take all of it, becausethe water wars are coming?
Oh yeah, they're coming?
Sure that Nestle isn't going totake all of it because the
water wars are coming?
Oh yeah, they're coming.
(34:01):
That and air and the air.
Yes, bottle your air in theempty bottles of water.
Rob (34:06):
Chris, get on the air thing for us.
Victor (34:08):
Start bottling air.
The water wars are coming.
Chris (34:11):
Guys, Get your guns I don't like them putting
chemicals in the water.
Victor (34:14):
That turn the friggin' frogs gay.
Rob (34:19):
Thank you for tuning in.
Don't forget to follow us oninstagram, twitter and youtube
at I'm not dumb, but where wepost extra fun content you may
not find on today's podcast, andbefore you go, hit that
subscribe button because you'llfeel better.
Trust me, until next time, staycurious.
There's a guy from nestle thatdoesn't think water is a human
(34:45):
right.
Dude, this guy wants to own therain.
What do you guys think about when you hear some of
these brands Kit Kat, erection,l'oreal?
Cesar (00:06):
Definitely Boner.
Rob (00:07):
What about Purina Hand cream?
Purina is a hand cream.
Chris (00:12):
Oh, I think it said.
Rob (00:12):
Purell.
Chris (00:13):
I was going to say, yeah, isn't that a duck food?
Victor (00:15):
Yeah, Victor, what do you feed your cat?
He gets a can of wet food a day.
Anything friskies cannot be, uhpate, so he likes friskies.
Tried giving him that bluebuffalo, like that, all natural
shit, because I was like I wantmy cat to be healthy.
Fucking hates it.
Try the signature selects is itmore expensive?
Cesar (00:34):
it's, it's, yeah, it's about 129 a can what do you
think I'm made of money?
Rob (00:38):
jesus christ, that's what my cat gets.
Cesar (00:42):
I only get her the morsels.
Rob (00:44):
Your cat lives large bro yeah.
Cesar (00:47):
Yeah.
Rob (00:48):
I'm buying single white albacore tuna on sale and this
thing's getting duck pate.
So what if I told you a lot ofthese household brands were
owned by a single company?
I'm not surprised.
Monsanto Close, Kit Kat,L'Oreal, Stouffer's, Purina
Friskies are all brands underthe umbrella of Nestle.
(01:12):
I'm not dumb, but what's thestory behind Nestle?
Cesar (01:16):
Welcome to the I'm Not Dumb but Podcast, where we won't
claim to have the answers tolife's deepest questions.
Victor (01:21):
But we'll give you an exciting journey into the realms
of knowledge you never knewyou'd be in.
Cesar (01:25):
Might be mainstream, but not common knowledge.
From artificial intelligence toconspiracy theories, no topic
is too taboo for us to explore.
Let's get curious together.
Rob (01:36):
I'm Rob, your host for today, joined by our incredibly
talented co-host, chris.
What's up, our boy, victor?
Victor (01:43):
How y'all doing.
And well, you know, caesar Yo,am I getting a degree after this
fucking episode?
You're not getting shit.
Rob (01:50):
You're not getting shit.
You're getting a Regentsdiploma which is worth shit.
Victor (01:54):
I've been up in here trying to get a motherfucking
scholarship.
Rob (01:56):
So what do you guys know about Nestle Nesquik, Nesquik
that's guys think about oh anduh, the crunch, nestle crunch.
Chris (02:02):
Yeah, the nestle crunch ain't bad, really good chocolate
, like I think of chocolate if Ihear that, yeah all right.
Rob (02:08):
So let's get, let's get in the time machine, let's go back,
you guys ready.
Chris (02:11):
Okay, we're going back.
What?
Victor (02:12):
chris, watch your knees yeah, get in this time machine
we're going in victor.
Rob (02:16):
Set it to 1814 1814 did you do?
It's asking for a softwareupdate.
Yeah, you gotta ignore, justignore it.
Chris (02:23):
Ignore it, just hit the button let's go.
Let's go, we're here.
Rob (02:43):
The year is 1814, and Henrik Nestle, born in Frankfurt
, germany, the 11th child of 14.
And he had some pretty humblebeginnings.
But our boy Henrik, he's prettysmart.
He studied chemistry and in1834, he actually completed an
apprenticeship to be apharmacist.
Victor (03:02):
So at the age of 20, he was practicing pharmacy In 1834,
.
I mean, how hard is it to be apharmacist?
Rob (03:06):
I don't think it's that hard.
I don't think.
Well, he did like a four-yearapprenticeship, okay.
Cesar (03:10):
So he got like a lot of oxycodone.
Rob (03:11):
He mixed a lot of stuff together.
Victor (03:13):
We have more books now and microscopes.
We have microscopes.
They didn't have microscopes,Caesar microscopes.
Yeah, they had microscopes yougot to have a microscope.
Science.
Rob (03:25):
So our boy was pretty smart , practicing pharmacy, but he's
looking for something a littlebit more.
That time there wasn't a lot ofopportunity in Frankfurt,
germany, so he moves over toSwitzerland to find some work.
Oh, switzerland.
So he moved to this town calledVevey it was a French-speaking
area of Switzerland and he'slooking to make some coin.
He starts selling differenttypes of products, stuff that he
(03:51):
can make Making rum, makingvinegars, nut oils, gas
fertilizer.
He's doing anything to try toget some cash.
Chris (03:59):
Wait, wait.
So he's just mixing shit justto see what he can sell.
Pretty much, yeah, he'screating products.
Rob (04:05):
He's creating products.
He's creating products.
He had a pretty goodentrepreneurial mind and he was
pretty good at chemistry, sothis sounds annoying to be his
friend.
Victor (04:13):
It's like, hey, how's the vinegar business going?
Nope, drop, that I'm doingfertilizer now.
I'm doing fertilizer.
Shit's fucking crazy.
The vinegar game didn't workout.
I'm switched to fertilizer.
Next week I'm going to rum.
Cesar (04:25):
By the way, two for one, special tonight Only for you
Always be closing.
Rob (04:33):
He changed his name to Henri Nestle, sounded a little
more French.
He wanted to fit in.
Basically, now, in this time,europe had just come out of this
industrial revolution and therewas a lot of economic upheaval,
a lot of malnutrition, a lot ofinfant mortality rates were on
a steep decline.
So our boy Henri, you know,he's been selling all these
(04:53):
products and he starts thinkinglike maybe I can do something
with this.
He decides to go on and tacklethe infant mortality business
you want to ask what it is or no.
Victor (05:05):
I know what infant mortality is.
Chris (05:06):
Can I get a definition please?
You know what infant mortalitybusiness.
Do you want to ask what it isor no?
I know what infant mortality is.
Rob (05:09):
Can I get a definition please?
You don't know what infantmortality is, Chris.
No, A lot of babies were dying.
It just wasn't a good time.
You can't make a joke aboutthis Watch me Canceled.
So there's one specific topic helikes or one specific problem
he decides to go after.
He wants to go and try to solvethe problem with women who
cannot breastfeed.
So there was an issue with somewomen who were unable to
(05:31):
breastfeed at the time he had agood idea about chemistry.
He was in pharmacies too.
I had an idea of like what thebody needed and he decides to
develop this thing called umformula.
Well, he called it farine laction re nestle.
What a fucking name oh, no waythat's crazy, yeah, which
basically means milk flour milkflour bro milk flour, and all it
(05:54):
was was just wheat flour,condensed milk and sugar.
It was it powdered.
It was powdered in a powderedform.
You just add water and you'rejust add water to go, and then
you put it on your breast andthen you pour it on and then you
mix it in.
There's a video, just look itup.
Victor (06:12):
That was creepy.
That's not how this works.
Rob (06:14):
Yeah, so this was the early stages of baby formula and it
was a huge, huge success.
It was so big that heimmediately had to make a
factory afterward to process allthe orders.
So this, basically, is whatpositioned nestle into the food
industry now.
He did this in 1867.
He was nearly 50 years old whenhe decided to do this.
Victor (06:35):
Never give up never give up motivation for me yeah, one
day, when you're 50, you canopen up a factory making, yeah,
breasts I'm going to write adown.
Chris (06:44):
Do I really do that.
Victor (06:45):
Just hire a bunch of Cambodians, put them on like
pumps.
I only drink the finest breastmilks.
Rob (06:51):
But apparently it was a thing like Cambodians they would
supplement breast milk foranimal milks for women who
couldn't breastfeed.
The big thing that maybe wouldhave interested him into this
idea was that they had just comeup with like crazy good farming
efficiencies, so milk wasabundant, like everywhere.
(07:12):
The problem is that theycouldn't refrigerate it, so milk
was going rancid.
So he was like milk's cheap.
I got grain to push.
I know how to make this formulaI can really get rid of.
I can get really rich off this.
So there was some, uh, reallygood intentions behind it.
Victor (07:27):
Or maybe he was just a money maker I think he was just
a money maker, because this guywent from like fucking
fertilizer pharmacist.
This guy was just seeing whatmade money I'm impressed.
Chris (07:37):
Yeah, definitely, yeah, very impressive.
Victor (07:38):
He would have been on.
He would have been on sharktank every other fucking week
yeah, pitching a new idea.
Cesar (07:43):
He would have been a shark too.
Victor (07:49):
At 50 something years old and he'd be like listen, I
was like you once.
How much money do you want forthis?
I'll give you $10,000 for 20%of your company.
Cesar (07:54):
And two bottles of fertilizer that I just made,
take it or leave it, and abottle of breath milk.
Chris (07:59):
It's one of the worst ideas I've ever seen.
I'm out.
Rob (08:01):
He makes a lot of money and he's pretty well off at this
point.
One of his neighbors actuallywas in the area.
His name was Daniel Peter.
He was trying to mix chocolate.
They had chocolate, but it wasdark chocolate.
It was very bitter.
He wanted to make a verycleaner, tastier version of this
chocolate.
He got introduced to Henri andHenri was like well, you have
too much water in your milk andyou need to basically bring it
(08:23):
down.
So how about you buy yourcondensed milk from me?
And that took off like took off.
And this was the guy who mademilk chocolate.
Victor (08:33):
Wait, he invented milk chocolate.
Rob (08:35):
Yeah, this guy, Daniel Peter, invented milk chocolate.
Henri helped him make milkchocolate using his condensed
milk.
Immediately after that theymerged together and created the
Nestle company.
Victor (08:46):
So it wasn't.
Rob (08:46):
Hershey.
Hershey and Mars were around atthis time also.
They were selling chocolate.
This guy, daniel Peter, was theguy who created milk chocolate.
So that's how Nestle basicallywent from the food industry and
then transferred over into whatwe know them as a chocolate
company.
So at this point Nestle's likeI am ridiculously rich.
(09:07):
So he's like you know what I'mgoing to retire Sells his
company to like three localbusinessmen for like 100 or 1
million Swiss francs 1 millionin 1875?
Chris (09:20):
Swiss francs.
Rob (09:21):
Can you get a conversion rate on that?
Cesar (09:22):
$30 million.
Victor (09:24):
That's nothing $ 30 million dollars, how many
millions do you?
Cesar (09:27):
have a lot, but they're in bonds.
I can't touch it, you know.
Victor (09:32):
Yeah, yeah and someone none of it's liquid, yeah it
doesn't exist, it's never landed, it is no matter, it's not on
the elemental chart I thoughtyou were gonna be like oh, this
is where he turned evil, becausethat would have been a cooler
story no, no no, this is when hestarts getting into weird sex,
pedophilia, shit.
Chris (09:52):
This is where it turns with chocolate.
You never take candy from astranger getting like
prostitutes left and rightthrowing them in in vats of
chocolate.
Victor (10:02):
I'm the candy man.
Bitches, not sex parties.
Rob (10:05):
Yeah, he sells his company in 1875 but this is where the
story starts to veer off thepath of a nice guy trying to
solve the world's problems andwhere we start to see this
multinational company come intoplay.
So what they would do is theywould start to buy up the
(10:26):
competition anytime they sawsomething come up.
So in 1905, they were like allright, we would really want to
push this chocolate all aroundEurope.
They acquired this companycalled Anglo-Swiss Condensed
Milk and they didn't stop there.
Anytime a company would come upthey would try to buy it.
And, as Victor was saying, youhad Hershey's, you had Mars bars
in the game.
So they wanted to staycompetitive and not just be a
(10:49):
chocolate company.
So they would acquire tons ofother companies.
They got into powdered coffeeand then later on in the 60s and
the 70s, they would start toacquire companies like L'Oreal,
nespresso in the 1980s, otherchocolate companies like Kit Kat
in the 1980s, purina, alpo, petfood companies, because they
(11:10):
wanted to basically staycompetitive in the market.
Chris (11:13):
So a lot of products they have is stuff they acquired,
not they created or they madeExactly.
Rob (11:18):
So they made a lot of money up front and then they just
started diversifying to be thishuge multinational conglomerate.
Victor (11:26):
They've never been in trouble, though financially.
Rob (11:28):
No, they've actually done pretty good.
They have been in trouble PRwise.
In the 1970s for Rhin-Lactethey had the baby formula
products.
Demand started to decrease forbaby formula.
When your demand drops forsomething, cesar, give me some
MBA, speak here what's anactivity a company can do to
promote or sell their products?
Cesar (11:51):
I have no idea.
I missed that class.
Victor (11:54):
MBA hard at work over there.
Yeah, I'm starting to thinkit's you.
Rob (11:59):
You advertise, you advertise, you advertise.
Victor (12:02):
Marketing.
Rob (12:03):
Marketing.
Victor (12:04):
I don't have an MBA.
I didn't fucking know that,influencers the Hulk, you
advertise for marketing.
I don't have an MBA.
I didn't fucking know that,influencers the Hulk, the Hulk
wants you to buy formula.
Cesar (12:14):
Think about it.
Rob (12:16):
It's big and strong.
This was brought to you byShe-Hulk.
Victor (12:19):
You can't imagine the commercial there About that.
Rob (12:24):
It's true I am a Hulk, so we remember the idea that Nestle
was coming up with right it wasthis alternative to breast milk
.
Right now, breast milk isrecommended for babies by the
World Health Organization,UNICEF, American Medical Society
.
All these companies are sayingthat breast milk is better than
baby formula.
I always thought formula wasway better.
Chris (12:43):
I thought formula was more of like a supplement to the
breast milk.
Cesar (12:53):
I don't know anything about formula Cesar.
No, it was designed as asupplement for women that can't,
you know, naturally producebreast milk.
Rob (12:56):
Nestle didn't like that idea.
Well, of course not.
Their formula company wasactually one of their highest
profit margins and when itstarted to tank in the 1970s,
they didn't like this idea of analternative or supplement.
So they started an aggressivemarketing campaign to undermine
breast milk and started makingclaims that baby formula was
better for babies than breastmilk.
Nestle would pay off doctorsand nurses to tell mothers that
(13:20):
baby formula was better thanbreast milk.
Cesar (13:22):
That's not good.
Victor (13:23):
Wow, but did they like line it with like vitamins and
shit?
Rob (13:27):
It was just wheat, flour and cereal.
If you couldn't breastfeed, itwas good because it had natural
fats and it had carbs and sugarsand it had something, but it is
no way in any way better thanbreast milk.
But Nestle decided we got totake this one step further.
They started killing mothers.
Cesar (13:43):
Yeah, that's right, took a dark turn.
Rob (13:46):
When you guys go into Costco, what do you look forward
to?
Free samples.
And that's exactly what Nestledid.
We'll provide free samples atthe maternity wards and at home
to women who have just had givenbirth to babies.
Actually, what they would do isthey would dress up their
saleswomen in nurses' outfits.
That's hot and they would walkdown the maternity halls pushing
(14:08):
baby formula, wow.
And they would tell mothers andthey would even make house
calls telling them that hey,listen, this is better.
Here's a bunch of free samples.
Let us know what you need.
They would provide enoughformula to stop the natural
breast milk production of themother and then, after they
would do that, the mothers hadabsolutely no choice but to
(14:30):
continue to buy the formula.
So now they've increased theirmarket share from people who
can't breastfeed and they'vemade people who can not be able
to Dick move Nestle, dick move.
What year?
is this roughly this is in the1970s.
They do this everywhere.
They did it in Europe.
Roughly this is in the 1970s.
They do this everywhere.
They did it in europe, they didin the states, except there was
(14:51):
some pr stuff coming out andthey started to realize that
this is probably not a good idea.
What they had to do wasbasically keep it going.
So what they were doing, theywould go into these
underdeveloped nations and dothese same exact practices and
try to get these women to stopnaturally breastfeeding and then
force their hand.
Except there was one caveat.
What did you need for thisformula to work?
(15:15):
Water, exactly.
But yo, no worries, man, thebrilliant minds at Nestle have
got us covered.
They would provide instructionsin English, of course.
It was simple.
All you had to do was wash yourhands and add clean drinking
water.
And if you didn't have cleandrinking water, well then all
(15:36):
you had to do was boil yourwater using an electric stove to
kill the bacteria.
Cesar (15:41):
If they didn't have access to cleaning water, I
don't think they're going tohave access to a stove and and
market, women who couldn't reador write.
Victor (15:52):
Did no one do any research whatsoever before doing
this?
Rob (15:56):
I mean, did they not do research, or was this part of
the plan?
Chris (15:58):
Because it's all part of the plan.
Rob (16:01):
Since many of the people didn't have access to clean
water, a lot of the babies weregetting sick and the cost alone
was killing them.
So what they would do is, in away to basically save some money
, the mothers would dilute thebaby formula, which is just
worse for you anyway and theywould just dilute it with even
more water to try to cut it tobe able to get the formula to
(16:23):
last longer.
So the babies who weren'tgetting sick were now becoming
extremely malnourished.
Victor (16:30):
That's not good.
Rob (16:31):
No, how do you think that these companies get so far away
from their ethos?
Cesar (16:36):
Greed, it's simple.
You want to make more profit?
Yeah, it's simple.
Victor (16:39):
Oh no, I was going to say because they're Swiss.
Oh.
Rob (16:42):
What does that have to do with anything?
The Swiss are notoriouslyassholes.
Really Are they?
Victor (16:47):
That's why they're always neutral in everything.
They don't take sides.
They're just like we're justhere on the sidelines with our
chocolate thinking about plansto kill babies.
Cesar (16:57):
I have no idea what I'm asking you Swiss dick is.
Are you going to fuck me over?
Rob (17:03):
Don't you think that these companies have a right to
protect the people that they'reselling to?
Victor (17:08):
companies don't give a fuck.
They're not people, that,they're just entities.
And then, for some reason, whenyou put a bunch of people
behind the the shield of acompany, they think that they're
.
There's enough separationbetween that and the people that
they're fucking killing that,uh, they don't give a fuck yeah,
pretty.
Chris (17:24):
Pretty sure they have a group of lawyers that goes
through all the regulations andall that stuff and trying to
find a loophole.
Victor (17:31):
You're talking about?
Would a CEO that has to dealwith stockholders and stock
prices give a shit about the endproduct?
But he's passing it on to amid-level manager who's all he's
thinking about is I'm going toget fired if I don't come up
with a new idea or more moneyfor my department.
So yeah, let's try somethingelse.
Oh, how does it affectsomething?
(17:52):
I will give the fuck.
Cesar (17:54):
I need to make money because I don't get fired,
because my kids need to eat allthese companies operate under
the one simple thing, bro, it'sbetter to ask for forgiveness
than to do it the right way.
The first time there's beenstories that where they
calculated if we fuck up and dothings the right way, it's more
expensive than just paying thepr hit later on.
And that's what.
Victor (18:14):
That's literally how they, how they operate you can
always negotiate an apology ifyou have to pay someone off.
That can be negotiated and yousend your team of lawyers to
fucking do it.
Cesar (18:24):
It's not new to nestle.
It's not new to any of thesecompanies.
They do the same thing over andover again Because by the time
it comes to light, you're goingto have a new executive board
making the decisions.
So at the end of the day,there's no accountability or
nothing.
But then again, what's thepoint of having fuck you money?
Rob (18:38):
if you never say fuck you.
In 1974, this expose called thebaby killer came out, and it
created an international scandalwhere people started boycotting
their products.
Four years later, nestle wasbrought to the US Senate to
answer for its tactics and as aresult, a lot of developing
nations created new regulationswhere companies could not come
(19:00):
out and straight up say thatbaby formula was better or equal
to breast milk.
So what Nestle decided to dowas just double down on
non-developed nations andcontinue to aggressively market
this in parts of Southeast Asia.
Cesar (19:17):
It's a big argument in the hospitals, people will plant
their flag on either side.
Rob (19:23):
Really, really Still.
Cesar (19:23):
Still.
Chris (19:24):
No, yes, still, Still, I for one listen Breast milk.
Cesar (19:26):
Still, no, yes, still Still.
I for one, listen Breast milk,of course, because it's natural.
If you're not producing enoughor if the child is still hungry,
you can always supplement itwith formula Protein powder.
Victor (19:39):
That means formula.
Rob (19:40):
Yeah, yeah.
What do they say in thehospitals Like do they want whey
or way concentrate?
Cesar (19:46):
I think they do.
I don't give a shit where mygains come from.
Rob (19:50):
I mean.
So Nestle came into some heatthe past couple years, you know.
Now they're running into somemore heat with bottled water.
So in 2013, it got some heatfor diverting clean drinking
water from villages in Pakistanto their factories and then
selling that bottled water backto the people.
And if they couldn't afford it,then they would have to go and
drink the contaminated or sludgewater in the areas.
(20:13):
It just seems like this is likeNestle's tactic.
Victor (20:17):
I think if they figure out a way to sell clean air,
they will literally suck the airout of the sky.
Cesar (20:24):
Oh it's coming, Bottle it , what's going to happen?
And then just go.
Hey, do you need air?
Victor (20:28):
For $1.50, you can get an hour's worth of air.
Are you just breathing?
Rob (20:32):
regular air.
You know that shit will kill.
Victor (20:34):
You Are you suffocating right now?
Rob (20:36):
Well, that shit will kill you.
Victor (20:38):
Not as low as my low low prices.
Rob (20:40):
That's a great idea.
Cesar (20:43):
I saw this show.
The air was poisonous and thiscompany was selling these canned
air.
What we found out later on wasthe same company that was
selling the canned air wasactually continuing to poison
the atmosphere.
So the air was continuing to bepoisonous.
Chris (20:59):
Wait, was that some Korean show?
Yes, chris, it'll miss.
Rob (21:11):
Not only were they doing this in Pakistan, they brought
it close to home.
So you guys remember, in 2016,with California was suffering an
extreme drought.
Chris (21:20):
Yeah, yeah, with.
Rob (21:20):
California was suffering an extreme drought.
Yeah yeah, nestle decided thatit was a good idea to go ahead
and extract 27 million gallonsof clean water from the natural
forests in Southern Californiato fill up their Arrowhead water
bottles.
Chris (21:35):
Dick move right.
Rob (21:36):
In 2016,.
They were pumping all the water, they acquired a license for
$524 that actually expired in1988.
But because they were pumpingall the water, they acquired a
license for $524.
That actually expired in 1988.
But because they were able tocontinue to make the annual fee
payment, it was automaticallyextended years later and then,
basically, when the Californiagovernment came under scrutiny,
they said, no, everything seemsright here because they've been
(21:57):
making their $524 annualpayments, so they were just
pumping all this water out.
I mean, have you ever drankArrowhead bottled water?
It's fucking disgusting.
It's like the worst water I'veever drank.
Chris (22:08):
Never heard of it.
So as long as you have alicense, you can just pump the
water as much as you want.
Victor (22:14):
When do they put out these licenses right?
Like 40 years ago If yourtown's population is 40,000, in
1980, and like 40 years ago ifyour town's population is 40,000
in 1980, and you got all thisfucking water that you're not
using.
Yeah, let's get a little extramoney to the town and sell it to
this company.
Now it's 2024, your townpopulation grew fucking 100% and
(22:35):
now you actually need thatwater.
But no one's ever looked backto see hey, let's check these
licenses.
And also, at this point, thetown doesn't want to lose that
money.
So do you think?
Rob (22:43):
that this is a problem with companies, or do you think this
is a problem with governmentsand regulation?
Cesar (22:48):
Companies are designed to skirt, as you know, regulations
.
Rob (22:52):
So that's what gets me is like you know, you hear all
these things about these massivecompanies doing all these
things, but they're legallyallowed to do it.
Victor (23:02):
I would say some of their practices are shady
because they do have theirlobbying arms that kind of lean
the government to certain waysor another.
But in the end I feel it'sstill local government and
regulations that needs to putthem in check.
It's like having a pet tiger.
Rob (23:17):
I mean, that's just a terrible idea.
Victor (23:18):
Right, but if it scratches you or if it bites you
, you can't get mad at it,because it's a tiger and that's
what it does.
The companies are the samething.
Companies are fucking assholesand they'll try to screw any
which way to get some profit.
So when they try to do it, youcan't really get mad at them,
because they're just doing whatthey want to do to get money.
There has to be a government orlaws in place to keep them in
check and unfortunately, nogovernment official is going to
(23:41):
go after a big company.
Rob (23:43):
Why not?
Cesar (23:44):
Jobs security.
A lot of these companies.
What do they do?
They provide jobs for thesurrounding environment.
Chris (23:51):
And I'm pretty sure they're getting something on the
side too.
Rob (23:55):
Nestle is also dealing with this plastic crisis also.
We know that basically 90% ofplastics are not getting
recycled.
So a lot of these big companiesare one of the huge, largest
polluters of plastics in theworld.
Because of the whole plasticwater bottles, Nestle is the
third largest plastic polluterin the world.
(24:17):
They pollute about 1.7 milliontons of plastics a year.
What does that mean?
1.4 million Toyotas, Chris.
Chris (24:27):
Oh, that makes sense.
Victor (24:29):
Gotcha.
I'll just say this though wepassed laws to not give out
plastic bags anymore and Ibitched when they stopped doing
it, but I do not give a shit atthis point.
I just bring my bags to thefucking grocery store Right same
here.
Chris (24:41):
It became part of my like everyday life.
Victor (24:42):
It became a normal thing If they came out with a thing
saying no more plastic bottledwater.
Either use glass or haverefillable stations everywhere,
or whatever the fuck they comeup with.
It'll be a bitch at first, butgive it like a month and no one
will give a shit.
Cesar (25:02):
No, I completely of a shit.
Victor (25:03):
No, I completely disagree they came after my soda
.
Cesar (25:05):
You're not gonna come after my plastic bottles.
You don't need 30 ounces offucking soda.
Rob (25:08):
Yes, I do tell me how much soda I need, bro I take all the
plastic bottles and then it's afree country.
You're not my supervisor.
See, I use the plastic bagsfrom the grocery store to, like
you know, wrap my food in,because fucking tupperware
containers they just aredesigned to leak, right, so they
fucking leak all over my bag.
They leak in my lunchbox.
(25:28):
So what I do is, as my wife'spicking the most inefficient way
to run through the grocerystore, I head straight to the
produce I do perimeter and thenlanes In the produce section.
Victor (25:41):
The produce is perimeter .
Rob (25:42):
Okay.
Victor (25:43):
It's like vegetables, deli and bread, and then it's
meats, and then it's milks,yogurts, cheeses, whatever, and
then I just choose which lane Ineed to go into, Either like
because you know, maybe I needpasta and rice.
I'll go into that lane.
I need some cans of beans.
I go into that lane.
I need some cans of beans.
Rob (26:00):
Go into that lane and then out.
Yeah, I go straight to theproduce and I just start ripping
all those plastic bags out ofthere and I shove it into my
fucking canvas.
Those are shit, though itdoesn't matter, it still gets
what I need done.
If you go right now and checkevery single one of my garbage
pails, you're going to find,like a fucking tomato sticker
(26:22):
Squat.
You're going to find all thatshit.
That's how I get through.
These are tough times.
What Nestle likes to do is theylike to partner with dictators?
Victor (26:34):
Oh, I'm sure North Korea can use some bottled water.
Rob (26:38):
So one really good one that I was reading about is this uh,
robert mugabe, the dictator ofzimbabwe, who's uh I don't know
if you guys know his work, buthe's he's very big with uh
bribery election bringing ingenocide okay, didn't he have
that hit single for a while?
Victor (26:56):
he's an r&B singer.
Rob (26:57):
So his wife, Grace Mugabe, made a deal with Nestle and
basically sourced 15% of theirmilk for their condensed milk
and other products that theymade through their farms.
Cesar (27:11):
So how did they do this Probably.
Find them on LinkedIn.
Send them a message.
Hey, this is what we need.
Can I have 15 minutes to talkabout it?
Rob (27:20):
That's one way to do it.
Victor (27:22):
I thought that was funny , cesar.
I thought that was funny,caesar.
Rob (27:24):
I thought that was funny.
I don't know that was all right.
I mean, I was like waiting forsomeone to laugh.
I'm in the zone, you guys gottalaugh.
We'll add that in there.
You can't partner withdictators.
Victor (27:37):
Yeah, you can we do it all the time.
The US loves dictators.
Are you kidding me?
Rob (27:41):
Yeah, but we do it legally, and so did Nestle.
The Mugabes were bound by USand EU sanctions, but the way
they got around with this isthey said well, we're a Swiss
company and we're not part ofthe EU and we're neutral Because
of that, so they would go aheadand just partner with
dictatorships.
One of their last partnershipswas with Belarus.
(28:04):
They indirectly fund theBelarusian government by
marketing Nestle products ontheir state television.
One in three commercials onstate TV is a Nestle commercial,
for either some sort of Nestleproduct.
Cesar (28:22):
Realistically, they have so many products under them that
, unless you're unless you'regoing to boycott 2 000 products,
like pretty much everything,what are you going to do?
What are you going to do?
And you're only one person orone family, you're going to
continue to use these products.
Do you really think?
Do you really look at productsand say, oh, nestle did it,
they're still dealing with, uh,dictators.
No, find a product that youwant or a product that you need,
(28:43):
get it at the best price.
Nestle did it.
They're still dealing withdictators.
Rob (28:47):
No, find a product that you want or a product that you need
, get it at the best price, andif they're the best price, take
it and keep it moving.
Chris (28:52):
Yeah, I think that's all consumers care about is the
price.
Victor (28:54):
Unfortunately, price is the price, yo.
So Nestle makes Cheeriosoutside of the US and Canada.
General Mills makes Cheeriosinside the Us and canada.
Rob (29:05):
oh they make the giorno as well.
Yo that pizza's bomb, though.
I went to go pick up a giornopizza because I was like I
really want like a giorno pizza.
She was like 20, I'm just gonnago to a pizzeria and fucking
get like a fresh pizza for like15 no, pizzas are 20, a regular
cheese is yeah but are you gonnaget a di giorno pizza, or like
a high quality, or like a highquality made by, like you know,
(29:29):
an albanian guy?
Cesar (29:31):
yeah, I'm gonna get the journal.
Rob (29:34):
It's not delivery, it's di giorno but you know, the one of
the biggest things that theyteach now, and that people tend
to follow brands, is the missionof the brand.
A lot of brands will be like,oh, we're sustainably, we're big
on sustainability.
Or you have like the Toms andyou have the Warby Parkers, who
are giving like free glasses orshoes to underprivileged people
(29:58):
and they are supporting andgiving back to Cool.
Cesar (30:01):
I get, get that, I get those and that that's cool.
Rob (30:04):
But do you think that that if that trend keeps that,
companies like nestle are behind?
Cesar (30:09):
you know what esg right, those environmental?
I heard companies are scalingback on that stuff because at
the end of the day it's allprice.
Victor (30:19):
Ethics is like a luxury when price doesn't fucking
matter.
If I'm going to buy extra moneyfor Tom's shoes, because an
extra 20 bucks for Tom's shoes?
Because they're going to givesome underprivileged guy a pair
of shoes in some country thatI've never fucking heard of, I
feel great about myself.
Sure, until my economy goesdown, or until inflation goes up
(30:39):
and my dollar doesn't go as farfor myself, everyone starts
cutting back, because that's howfar morality goes these days.
I'm buying store brand.
Okay, I'm down to store brand.
Rob (30:53):
I'm down to Signature America.
Victor (30:57):
I'm down to Bowling Basket.
Okay, that's all that's goinginto my cart and broke.
Rob (31:02):
When I first started reading about Nestle, I was like
this is great.
But after you read it, they geta lot of negative PR and people
are saying, oh, they're a badcompany.
Like you said, if you have atiger and it scratches you, are
you really surprised?
I think it's one of thosethings with Nestle Corporation.
You got to basically tame thetiger.
You got to do something with it.
(31:23):
You can't expect thesecompanies to have your best
interest, if it's.
Chris (31:28):
I thought, when you said Nestle, I thought we're going to
talk about chocolate.
We did, chris.
Victor (31:33):
I know.
But yeah, tell them, chris,that chocolate's bathed in blood
.
I know, I didn't know it wasgoing to be blood chocolate.
Rob (31:39):
That's actually what they call it.
Why do you think the Kit Katwrappers are red?
That's actually what they callit?
Because I mean, when I wasreading, they're basically all
these major chocolate companiessource their chocolate from West
Africa and what they do is theyhave to get it from these local
farmers.
They're poor and they have tonsof kids and they can't afford
(32:00):
to send them to school, so theymake the kids work on the farms
and then what a lot of kids doin the surrounding regions is
they'll bust these children overand force them to work on these
farms for like $9 a week.
Since 2005, they have madepromises that like, okay, we're
going to cut down on like childlabor and unpaid workers Every
(32:25):
year that they hit theirmilestone.
They do absolutely nothingabout it.
Victor (32:29):
Slav.
You're making him feel bad,Stop.
Chris (32:31):
All right, no more chocolate.
I'm not getting any chocolatewasted anymore All Halloween.
Victor (32:36):
I just ate two bags of Kit Kats like not too long ago.
Chris (32:40):
That's a Nestle product.
How dare?
Rob (32:42):
you, it tasted like guilt.
Cesar (32:44):
I'm ashamed of myself.
Rob (32:45):
So what do you guys think?
Key takeaways Teaser.
Cesar (32:49):
At this point, all of it is business strategy, right,
like, can you really fault them?
It's a company that it's goingto do whatever it can to
maximize its profits.
Am I going to boycott any oftheir products?
Probably not.
Can to maximize his profits.
Am I gonna boycott any otherproducts?
Probably not, because at thispoint it doesn't really affect
me that much.
I don't know, chris, what areyour thoughts?
Chris (33:07):
okay, I don't think I'm not like caesar and victor said,
I'm not gonna boycott them justbecause it is about the price,
you know.
So I mean it sucks that theywere like killing babies, moms.
Business is business, you know.
They just have to do what theyhave to do.
Again, I don't really care or Idon't, it's not, it doesn't
affect my life, it doesn'taffect you know chris is about
(33:29):
to use every nesli productchocolate, milk, lotion.
Victor (33:32):
I don't care, victor I urge all 10 of our listeners.
I think we have 19 now all 19of our listeners.
Rob (33:38):
I think we have 19 now.
Victor (33:40):
All 19 of our listeners.
No, I urge anyone who listensto this.
I urge you to find out whereyour local water supply comes
from and I urge you to juststart reaching out to entities
and being like what are youdoing to make sure my water's
clean and what are you doing tomake sure that Nestle isn't
going to take all of it, becausethe water wars are coming?
Oh yeah, they're coming?
Sure that Nestle isn't going totake all of it because the
water wars are coming?
Oh yeah, they're coming.
(34:01):
That and air and the air.
Yes, bottle your air in theempty bottles of water.
Rob (34:06):
Chris, get on the air thing for us.
Victor (34:08):
Start bottling air.
The water wars are coming.
Chris (34:11):
Guys, Get your guns I don't like them putting
chemicals in the water.
Victor (34:14):
That turn the friggin' frogs gay.
Rob (34:19):
Thank you for tuning in.
Don't forget to follow us oninstagram, twitter and youtube
at I'm not dumb, but where wepost extra fun content you may
not find on today's podcast, andbefore you go, hit that
subscribe button because you'llfeel better.
Trust me, until next time, staycurious.
There's a guy from nestle thatdoesn't think water is a human
(34:45):
right.
Dude, this guy wants to own therain.
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