October 23, 2024 • 32 mins
Join us as we embark on a spooky virtual time-travel adventure to the era of the Salem Witch Trials. We unravel the witchcraft accusations that set the village ablaze with hysteria.
We'll take you back to a time when doctors diagnosed bewitchment with little more than peculiar symptoms and homemade remedies. We question the curious medical practices of the era and paint a vivid picture of a community ensnared by superstition. From hearing disembodied spirits to bizarre remedies, we dissect the chaos of the Salem Witch Trials, wondering how such wild narratives took hold amidst rational people.
As the hysteria spiraled, accusations flew, and grim outcomes followed. We recount the dark days of unlawful detentions and tragic executions, highlighting stories like Sarah Good's who faced trauma by her accusers. Amidst the grim backdrop, we offer reflections on the aftermath and eventual public backlash that brought the trials to an end. Join us as we remind us of the complex social and religious factors that fueled this haunting chapter in history.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Victor (00:00):
Tis the season of scare, so I want to know what stories
did you guys love hearing aroundHalloween?
Rob (00:06):
Ooh, I liked old ghost stories, like I used to pick
those books up and read them andbe like why the fuck did I read
this Like Goosebumps?
No, goosebumps was baby shit,but I did read that.
Victor (00:18):
Oh sorry.
Rob (00:19):
Yeah, it was, it was, it was.
No, they had like these, like,like these like old, like ghost
stories books in my elementaryschool and I was like this is a
terrible idea, but I'm justgoing to keep going.
I forgot the name of it.
What was that?
Chris (00:32):
show, was it Nickelodeon Are?
Rob (00:34):
You Afraid of the Dark.
Victor (00:35):
Yes, that Are you.
Chris (00:35):
Afraid of the Dark.
Yes, I used to watch that a lotwith my brother and sister.
Victor (00:45):
Did you ever watch tales from the crypt?
Rob (00:46):
yeah, that was on hbo, right, that was on hbo.
Victor (00:47):
I tried, I tried, but the little thing, the little
skeleton guy and he was likethere's a coffin behind him so I
read that this year thehistoric site of salem,
massachusetts, is expecting 1.2million visitors, which got me
thinking I'm not.
But what happened during theSalem Witch Trials?
Cesar (01:10):
Welcome to the.
Victor (01:10):
I'm Not Dumb but podcast where we won't claim to have
the answers to life's deepestquestions, but we'll give you an
exciting journey into therealms of knowledge you never
knew you'd be.
Cesar (01:15):
Might be mainstream, but not common knowledge.
From artificial intelligence toconspiracy theories, no topic
is too taboo for us to explore.
Let's get curious together.
No topic is too taboo for us toexplore.
Victor (01:25):
Let's get curious together.
Welcome everyone to anotherepisode of I'm Not Dumb, but I'm
your host for today, victor,joined always by Cesar, what's
up?
Rob (01:39):
Rob Hello, and Chris Yep, are you guys feeling the
Halloween?
Victor (01:41):
spirit I am, or it's just indigestion, I'm just
whatever you're not feeling theholiday, the halloween spirit,
well, chris doesn't I don'tthink he really likes halloween.
I think it scares him.
It scares him, it puts a littlefright in his socks.
Is that a korean thing?
Chris (01:55):
is there, like korean superstitions, that avoiding no,
my sister loves watching scarymovies like haunted house.
I think it's just me.
I just don't me and the ghostand doesn't get along.
Rob (02:07):
So yeah, I noticed that.
I noticed that you gotta getinto the season, chris.
Yeah, you gotta get into theseason.
Do you decorate your house?
Do you put spiders and stuffaround there?
Victor (02:16):
nope, too much work not even like a pumpkin there's no
pumpkin out there nope, oh mygod, like a jehovah's Witness
over here.
Rob (02:25):
Seriously, yeah, we like our Jehovah's though.
Thanks for supporting ourchannel.
Victor (02:29):
Shout out Jehovah's Witnesses.
So what do you guys know aboutthe Salem witch trials?
Like, have you visited the town?
I have visited Salem, youvisited Salem.
Rob (02:41):
It's a little spooky.
I did a ghost tour, talkedabout, um, some of the stuff
that was going on there.
I will say I went and there wassome bad juju and I did not
have a good time really yeah,there was some bad juju in that
place and I did not have a goodtime interesting so it's haunted
as shit.
Victor (03:00):
Is what you're?
Rob (03:00):
bad energy, bad energy called town was or it was like
certain location or as soon aswe left, things got better, but
while me and my wife were there,it was just bad energy all
around.
Chris (03:12):
I don't know if I want to go.
Rob (03:13):
I think she picks up energy and throws it at me.
Victor (03:18):
She was actually just mad at you the entire time.
Yeah, I did something.
Rob (03:22):
But when we left, everything was great Before we
got there everything was great.
I will not be going back Withher.
Victor (03:28):
Mad at you.
Today we're going cauldron deepinto the Salem Witch Trials and
to try to get someunderstanding of what happened
there, let's jump into ourpodcast time machine.
Let me just hit some few levershere and pull a few buttons.
Rob (03:46):
Who built this thing, bro?
Victor (03:47):
Jesus Christ here we go Back to 1692.
Guys, are you there?
Rob (03:57):
I'm here, everyone here?
Yep, my Apple Watch says 1692.
Do they have Wi-Fi here?
Victor (04:03):
So here we are in Salem, massachusetts, nestled neatly
by the water, just 16 milesnorth of Boston.
This place was settled in 1626.
A little rundown over here, nostreetlights.
Chris (04:16):
Is it really 1600s?
I always thought it was 1800sfor some reason.
No, it's the 1600s.
Dang, it goes way back.
Yeah, these are old schoolpatriots.
Rob (04:27):
These are conservative values.
What were we?
Victor (04:28):
missing in this country.
That's the real America.
Actually, when I was goingthrough, most of these people
were actually born in Englandand came over.
Rob (04:35):
Oh, so they had an English accent.
Victor (04:37):
eh, the pub was probably banging Ye old pub In January
1692, the daughter and niece ofReverend Samuel Parris became
ill, which to me I feel likeeveryone was probably cold and
sick all the time back then Likewhat's the medicine?
Just hot water soup and a fewleeches and prayer.
Rob (04:59):
And I feel like there was always bloodletting, like how do
you feel?
Oh, not good, let's cut youopen.
You know what, doc, I'm feelinga lot better.
Victor (05:09):
Have you prayed on it?
Rob (05:11):
Yeah, did you clean this thing.
Victor (05:12):
Yeah, I think I hurt my leg.
Try praying three times a day.
Rob (05:17):
It's because you're a sinner, the power of Christ
compares you.
Victor (05:22):
Betty Parris, the daughter, and Abigail Williams,
the niece, suffered from apeculiar illness.
They made strange noises,huddled under furniture and
clutched their heads.
Sounds like bad.
Chris (05:34):
Chinese food.
You sure they're not having apanic attack?
Rob (05:39):
Did you get the shrimp wontons?
Because that'll do it.
Victor (05:43):
Yes, yes, I remember, I had lasagna they complained that
disembodied spirits werestabbing them, choking them and
even jabbing them with pins.
Cool, so after a month offasting, prayer and home
remedies, as a good fatherprescribes, he calls for the
village doctor to help.
Now, the village doctor is aman named William Griggs.
(06:06):
And when you think of a 1692doctor, what do you imagine?
Rob (06:12):
Black wardrobe probably a white face mask, maybe a Like
holding a Bible.
Chris (06:17):
Yeah, I don't know.
Rob (06:19):
You asked me a question.
Okay, do you want the answer ornot?
Yeah, holding like a briefcasewith like Bible Metal cups, or
not?
Chris (06:26):
Yeah, holding like a briefcase with, like Bible,
metal cups in it.
Yeah, cross, holy water, Idon't know.
Victor (06:30):
Like a priest.
Rob (06:31):
He's a doctor, Chris.
This guy's a medicalprofessional.
He went to NYU, langone okay,knee deep in student loans, all
right, this guy's a doctor.
Dammit man, I'm a doctor, not atorpedo technician.
Victor (06:44):
Well, not much is known about this guy.
Actually, he was born inEngland, came to Massachusetts
as an adult.
There are no records of medicaltraining because there's just
no records of medical trainingat this time and actually people
think that he may have beenself-taught.
Cool, and what I foundinteresting was that when he
went to see these girls he wasalready in his 70s.
(07:07):
In fact, he actually died thefollowing year late, a long
career, so like it's like it'sthe, it's january.
he's in.
This old man just comes to thisguy's house he probably lives
like a while away, right, sohe's like going through the cold
, shows up and is like I'm hereto see your daughters, yeah,
(07:32):
what was the last seminar youwent to, doc?
Where did you get your training?
I actually just figured thisstuff out myself.
Rob (07:38):
Yeah, I picked this up.
I didn't actually read anybooks either.
We're in big trouble.
Victor (07:42):
Big trouble.
But the good doc took a look atthe girls and said they're
suffering from bewitchment yeahobviously, so how do you cure
bewitchment?
Rob (07:53):
well.
So the symptoms of bewitchmentare just like pain in your
stomach well, no they.
Victor (07:58):
They saw disembodied spirits.
Chris (08:00):
Uh-huh, they held their heads, they like oh yeah, that's
not a common thing, is thatsomething that was going around?
Victor (08:07):
this listen.
Are you questioning this, good?
Chris (08:10):
70 year old doctor's judgment about bewitchment.
Victor (08:13):
What do you know in 1692 about bewitchment?
Rob (08:17):
if the guy shows up to my house, he takes a look alive.
He made it there first of allhe shows up and he's like this
is bewitchment.
You gotta believe him.
I mean, he's just.
He nailed it.
Confidence is really a lot of,a lot of being a doctor, I think
it probably was like fuck,think of something, quick, quick
, think of something.
Chris (08:36):
And then he was like bitch, you meant he's going to a
reverend's house.
Victor (08:43):
You, you know, it's not like he's just, it was all prep.
He had the whole script, whatto say he heard from before.
He's like you know what?
It's January.
Definitely this is bewitchmentseason 101.
Cold flu bewitchment season.
Rob (08:59):
Just get it together, doc, just get it together.
Victor (09:00):
What are you going to say?
Rob (09:08):
What are you going to say?
What are you going?
Cesar (09:09):
to say when you get there oh, I got to come up with
something.
It's like oh, bewitchment,Trust me, I'm an expert.
Victor (09:11):
Luckily, a friendly neighbor gave the Parises the
cure for bewitchment.
Cesar (09:16):
Oh, what you need to do?
Victor (09:17):
is you need to bake a witch cake?
Cesar (09:21):
Yeah, Chocolate probably no-transcript.
Victor (09:34):
If the dog shakes, the person is cured.
What I shit you not.
Rob (09:43):
It sounds like what they do to fraternity kids hey man,
we're just going to need yoururine.
It's your birthday, don't evenworry about it.
Cesar (09:52):
These Betty Crocker recipes are getting concrete.
Rob (09:56):
So you're telling me he doesn't need eggs?
Cesar (10:01):
No, this is an eggless cake.
Just add, just add water it's athick cake.
Victor (10:04):
It's a thick cake no, it's store-bought this is
supposed to hurt the witch, butit is actually discouraged
because you're using magic andmagic is dangerous and you don't
want people using magic tofight magic yeah, you don't want
to do that right, becausethat's all the devil's work.
You know you can't be handlingmagic.
Use politics that's how youthat's how you fight magic
(10:26):
bureaucracy, baby red tape so,as this is going on, a 12 year
old, ann putnam jr and a 17 yearold, elizabeth hubbard, start
suffering from the same illness,the same symptoms, everything.
So now you have four girls outhere that are suffering from
this.
Rob (10:43):
Uh, they call it the affliction, oh, so this witch is
like she's really getting,she's working over, she's
casting, yeah, she's castingspells left and right now, this
is the end of february andpeople are pressuring them.
Victor (10:55):
These two girls they're like can you see these
apparitions?
Who are these apparitions?
Can you point them out?
Girls start naming theapparitions that they see.
Mind you, you have the12-year-old and the 17-year-old
right and the original two girls.
One is 9 and the other one's 11.
Rob (11:11):
Yeah, I don't know if I want to listen to them.
Victor (11:13):
Well, they start giving names.
They name Tatuba, who is theParis's West Indian slave, oh
God, sarah Good and a womannamed Sarah Osborne.
All three of them, after theywere named, were immediately
arrested.
Cesar (11:27):
What that's this?
You got it.
Rob (11:28):
Yeah, you got to get right to the problem.
You got to get right in thereAll right.
Victor (11:37):
So let me give you an idea of how the interrogation of
Sarah Osborne by the magistratewent, and this is from March
1st 1692.
Does one of you want to help meout?
I have the interrogation ofSarah Osborne.
Does someone want to play likethe man or the woman?
I'm the man.
Rob (11:50):
You're clearly the woman.
I just want to make sure.
Yes, that's fine, that's fine,but you have to use like an
English accent.
Victor (11:53):
I'll be the woman.
That's fine, that's fine, butyou have to use like an English
accent.
I'll be the woman.
I'll play the magistrate andRob is going to play Sarah
Osborne.
Rob (12:03):
I'm Sarah Osborne.
Okay, what's her backstory?
Victor (12:06):
So Sarah is a woman from 1600s.
Okay, honestly, all about her,I know about her.
Cesar (12:13):
And she's going to die All right.
Whoa whoa Spoilers Channel.
Rob (12:16):
That gonna die all right, whoa, whoa spoilers channel,
that channel.
I'm gonna die, I can't, but I'mstill white.
Okay, got it you're underinterrogation.
Victor (12:26):
You just got accused about being a witch and you're
in jail.
Okay and scene.
What evil spirits have youfamiliarity with?
None.
Have you made no contract withthe devil?
No, I have never seen the devilin my life.
Why do you hurt these children?
Rob (12:42):
I do not hurt them.
Victor (12:43):
Who do you employ then to hurt them?
I employ nobody.
What familiarity have you withSarah Good, none, I have not
seen her in two years.
Rob (12:53):
Where did you see her then One day going to town?
What communications had youwith her?
I had none, I only.
How do you do?
Or?
So I did not know her by name.
She's clearly fucking guilty.
Cesar (13:07):
And also Rob, you definitely watch Bridgerton.
Rob (13:10):
Yeah, that one's season three, bravo, bravo, okay, yeah.
Cesar (13:15):
And you know what Wrong point Touche.
Very well done, well done sothen the interrogation continues
.
Victor (13:21):
He had the children stand and point to her, claiming
that she was the woman hurtingthem.
Both good and osborne maintaintheir innocence, but to tuba
confessed again.
I'll play the magistrate.
Rob here will be the westIndian slave.
I'm watching my stories man.
What evil spirits have youfamiliarity with?
(13:44):
None.
Why do you hurt these children?
I do not hurt them.
Who is it?
Rob (13:50):
then that does the devil for aught.
I know, Did you ever see thedevil?
The devil came to me and it bidme serve him.
Who have you seen Four womenand sometimes hurt the devil?
The devil came to me and it bidme serve him.
Who have you seen Four womenand sometimes hurt the children?
Victor (14:03):
Who were they?
Rob (14:04):
Osborne and Sarah Good.
I do not know who the otherwere.
Sarah Good and Osborne wouldhave hurt the children, but I
would not.
She further said there was atall man of Boston that she did
see.
I don't even know what I said.
Victor (14:17):
I had to actually translate this from like old
English, which was like sofrustrating because they had
taken papers that were basicallywritten by hand.
Rob (14:26):
Right.
Victor (14:27):
And then they typed it all out.
It still didn't make a lot ofsense, and then it's using older
versions of words that we don'tuse anymore, so I had to like
semi-translate it the best Icould.
But, as you can see here,tatuba was like listen, it was
these two girls.
They found the devil in Boston.
He's like help me out and helpme torture these girls.
(14:47):
And so I'll be honest, Ibelieve her confession was
coerced because she flipped andnamed the women conveniently,
but not the other two shadowyfigures.
So she just named the womenthat they mentioned, not the
other two shadowy figures.
So she just named the womenthat they mentioned.
Yeah, she just wanted to getout of it.
Chris (15:02):
She was a slave right Shadow figures don't have names.
Cesar (15:05):
That's why they're shadow .
Chris (15:06):
I wonder if she's like fuck this, I'm fucked,
regardless.
Victor (15:09):
Her interrogation got even weirder.
She started talking about thatmysterious man from Boston.
She went on to talk about howshe saw several talking animals,
including a black dog, a redand black cat, a yellow bird,
who all spoke to her, tellingher to serve them and hurt or
kill the children.
Cesar (15:27):
The original Dr Doolittle .
Victor (15:32):
It all just seems too convenient, like if someone
wrote dealing with the devilhandbook, like this would all be
in it.
And, as we know, the devildeals in souls, not just threats
.
Right, like there's usually anexchange, like you get a soul
and then I make you rich or youcan run for politics, like
something.
She's not getting anything outof this.
And don't forget, she is aslave of the family, where the
(15:54):
daughter of her owner isaccusing you of witchcraft.
So like, come on.
Cesar (15:59):
You ever?
Victor (15:59):
dance with the devil in the pale moonlight.
So around early March, three ofthe girls start getting
slightly better, except for12-year-old Ann Putnam, who then
decides to name Martha CoreyDorothy Good.
Dorothy Good is Sarah Good'sfour-year-old daughter and
Elizabeth Proctor, and, with thehelp of, possibly, her mother
(16:20):
and their servant, she namesRebecca Nurse, who's like this
71-year-old woman.
All the women named werearrested and, oddly enough, both
Ann Putnam's mother and theirservant also start complaining
about the affliction that theywere getting sick.
Rob (16:36):
Yeah, I mean, if I'm getting arrested, I'm like
listen, I'm sick too, guys, andfucking, she's a liar and her
dog keeps shitting on my lawn.
I mean like the dog's gotta go.
Victor (16:49):
Now it's going to get interesting because as more
people are being are becomingsick, they just start naming
people around the others thatwere accused.
For example, elizabeth Proctorwas named by the 12-year-old
girl, then her husband, johnProctor, was named, then Sarah
(17:10):
Cloyce.
The sister of the 71-year-oldlady was named Giles Corey, the
husband of Martha, abigail Hobbs, bridget Bishop all these
people were just accused andthen immediately arrested.
Do they think that all thesepeople are a witch?
Yeah, and not even from Salem.
By May, reverend GeorgeBurroughs, who was the minister
at Salem 30 years before, wasissued a warrant to face
witchcraft charges.
Chris (17:29):
And he was living in.
Victor (17:30):
Maine.
Rob (17:32):
Oh my God, so they're just arresting everybody.
Victor (17:36):
What I think is happening here and this is just
my opinion that these young kidswere sick, they were seeing
shit, and now their parents,local townspeople, are just
coming by like screaming who doyou see?
Who are they?
And it's like 1692, right?
So they're probably likeslapping them around, a bit like
trying to get answers Like giveme a name, Sarah.
Chris (17:55):
Who do you see?
Victor (17:56):
Who do you see?
Who do you see?
It's definitely our neighbor,right, joyce?
I'll take care of this.
Cesar (18:04):
Calm down, get a hold of yourself.
Victor (18:07):
You knew most people, right?
Right, john didn't trim hishedges the way I wanted to.
I think I saw him stabbing mydaughter as a ghost.
Yeah, goodbye, john, Goodbye.
Let's just take a step back fora minute and talk about the
town for a bit.
So years earlier, in 1684, theMassachusetts Bay Colony's
charter had been revoked, andthis is important because
(18:28):
without a charter, it kind ofplaced the whole area in a legal
limbo.
All these people that theyarrested.
They can't hold trials for them.
What do they do?
They just put them in the jail.
So they would just do thesepre-trial interviews and then
they would throw them in jail,which sucks, because jail sucks,
and those conditions wereprobably terrible.
Like there was mold everywhere,there was lice all over the
(18:50):
floor, it was so bad.
The first casualty SarahOsborne, if you remember, did
the interrogation.
Yeah, she dies in prison inBoston on May 10th.
Rob (19:02):
RIP.
So it's pretty.
It's like a New York Citypublic school.
Victor (19:06):
It's like where Diddy's being held.
Yeah, but I'm not not sayingDiddy.
Four days later, a new charterarrives and a new governor was
appointed and by the end of May,a special court was created to
try the witchcraft cases andthis court was known as the
Court of Oyer and Terminer,meaning to hear and determine.
They aren't such classy.
(19:27):
Classy words then.
Really, I think it's just Latin, latin who speaks Latin?
So the court was presided overby William Sautin, the colony's
lieutenant governor, and sixother men who are just
businessmen and politicians.
When this court was set up,boston Minister Cotton Mather
went to them and was like listen, when you try witches, you have
(19:48):
to be careful not to just usespectral evidence, meaning don't
just say well, this person wasseen in a dream and so boom,
guilty.
He's like say well, this personwas seen in a dream and so boom
, guilty.
He's like don't do that.
I'm guessing he is like a witchtrial expert.
Rob (20:02):
He's a witch trial.
He deals in witch law.
He does witch law yeah.
Victor (20:06):
Yeah.
Rob (20:07):
Self-taught.
Chris (20:09):
Also self-taught Online Online.
Take it easy, I'm in pre-lawman.
Cesar (20:15):
Thought you pre-med.
What's the?
Victor (20:16):
difference.
The court gets all thisinformation, so what do you
think they do with that?
Absolutely yeah it's not gonnawork for us.
Yeah, they completely ignoredit, which even caused one of the
judges to resign after thefirst trial, through this woman,
bridget bishop, who was foundguilty and hanged on june 10th.
And like, after that one trial,this, this one judge was like
(20:37):
this this is crazy.
Rob (20:38):
I'm getting the fuck out of here.
This is wild.
I'm going to work for MayorAdams.
Victor (20:45):
All my haters become my waiters when I sit down at the
table of success.
So they were just lettingpeople go in there going, yeah,
I saw an apparition that kind oflooked like her and I think she
was the witch, and so they werelike, yeah, I totally accept
that the trials continued and bylate July they will hang
Rebecca Nurse, that 71-year-oldwoman, susanna Martin, elizabeth
(21:08):
Howe, sarah Good and SarahWilds.
And Sarah Good actually wentout like a badass, as she's up
at the gallows, this reverendjust being obnoxious and is,
like you know, confess and saveyour soul, just being like
really preachy, and then shereplies you're a liar, I am no
more a witch than you are awizard, and if you take my life,
(21:30):
god will give you blood todrink.
Boom roasted.
Rob (21:33):
yeah, got him, didn't?
She put a curse on him by doingthat, they believe.
I thought there was somethingabout like when she he hung her
and then she cursed him and then, like every person who's ever
been in that position has died.
Victor (21:53):
She had like a heartbreaking story because when
she was arrested she wasactually pregnant and she gave
birth in prison and the infantdied before she was hanged and
her six year old daughter wasaccused of being a witch.
Um was sent to prison for sevenmonths she didn't die, but she
was like fucked up, uh,psychologically for the of her
(22:15):
life.
So it's just like some sad shit.
Imagine like you're six yearsold and you're like you're a
witch, you're going to jail.
Like what Yo people are wild.
Back then.
Rob (22:25):
So she cursed.
Reverend Noyes died of a brainhemorrhage after in 1718.
And it said that when he wasdying he was coughing up his own
blood, so he was drinking hisblood.
Victor (22:41):
Oh so she did curse me.
I mean though 1718, though, andthat curse took a while.
Rob (22:47):
I mean, it's slow acting.
You know, it's not one of thoseones that just comes and hits
you.
Victor (22:52):
I guess it took its sweet time.
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm just comes andhits you.
I guess it took its sweet time.
In august five more people werehanged and september nine were
executed, including a 71 yearold.
Giles cory, who was refusing torecognize the authority of the
court, was pressed to death andif you're curious of what that
means, you get slowly crushed byheavy rocks.
(23:14):
Oh oh, what a way to go.
You're 71 year, you get slowlycrushed by heavy rocks.
Rob (23:16):
Oh, what a way to go.
Victor (23:17):
You're a 71-year-old man too, getting crushed by rocks.
Rob (23:21):
I would have moved, I would have just been like you know
what, the neighborhood's gonedownhill.
Cesar (23:27):
Let's get the fuck out of here.
I'm paying these taxes, did Iget?
Rob (23:31):
paid in these roads.
Yeah, I'm out of here.
Chris (23:33):
This neighborhood sure has gone downhill.
Victor (23:36):
By October 1692, public opinion of the court was, let's
just say, really bad.
People wrote letterscomplaining about it, even
ministries all over the area, orlike this this seems messed up.
You guys are using too much bsevidence.
You guys need to stop this shit.
So governoripps the governor atthe time dissolves the court,
(23:56):
but there is still a bunch ofpeople in jail for witchcraft.
He has the MassachusettsSupreme Court meet for a special
session to try the remainingcases, this time without
accepting spectral evidence, andonly finds three of 56 people
guilty.
I mean, those are betternumbers, but even still the
(24:17):
governor steps in again and sayslisten, everyone is free to go.
Just pay your jail fee of twoshillings six pence a week,
which is about $16, and we'regood.
Rob (24:28):
Jesus.
Victor (24:29):
Is it?
Rob (24:29):
hard to get $16 at that time, though, if you're poor,
seems like a lot of these peoplewere poor.
Victor (24:35):
I mean, what's a Big Mac ?
Rob (24:41):
About 15 bucks, if you're getting the value meal.
Victor (24:42):
Could you afford a big mac?
That's crazy, I don't know.
No, the price of a big mac, orpaying to get out of jail jail
was fine big man 15 bucks for away you know, just put me back
in jail.
Cesar (24:55):
People can't afford to pay their rent or mortgage.
But you can afford a deliciousBig Mac.
Victor (25:01):
And that marked the end of the Salem witch trials.
In total, 25 people were killed, 19 hanged, 5 died in jail, 1
tortured to death, more than 150people were jailed for using
witchcraft and over 200 peoplewere accused.
Rob (25:19):
jesus witches have candles, witches have brooms.
Their houses are probably, likeyou know, pimped out a little
witchy.
Yeah, you go.
You ever go to somebody's house.
You're like this person'sdefinitely right.
Yeah, this is like.
Uh, who would do a drapes likethat?
Victor (25:35):
I did read.
There was one case that someonefound like a knife that was
like missing a point, and theywere trying to use that as
evidence.
But I mean again, you don'treally have a police force here,
like what's an investigation?
It's 1692.
Rob (25:49):
There's nothing.
Victor (25:50):
You don't have, you're not dusting for prints.
Cesar (25:51):
No, no, no fingerprints.
Victor (25:53):
I don't think so In 1702 , the General Court of
Massachusetts declared thetrials unlawful and the colony
passed a bill overturningwitchcraft convictions,
mentioning 22 individuals byname.
Later, in 1957, a resolutionexonerated additional victims.
(26:14):
What Took a while Long longerthan the curse and in 2021, this
is 329 years after the eventsof salem, elizabeth johnson jr
was the last person to beexonerated by massachusetts.
Wow, so three years ago theygot the last person that was
exonerated because called awitch did they say why it took
(26:35):
so long?
or did they just completelyforgot about her, or there was
letters from, like a middleschool teacher and her class
that they kept on, were likesubmitting letters like you
should exonerate this woman forwhatever, whatever reason now,
how did she take the news?
Cesar (26:48):
was she happy, was she?
Rob (26:51):
she's gonna sue the shit out of that.
You know what?
Victor (26:55):
I submitted for a request for comment.
She never got back to me.
Cesar (26:58):
Yo, she's ghosting us, she's ghosting us?
Rob (27:02):
Yeah, why would you want to come out and say something?
Victor (27:04):
Make a statement.
At least it's been 329 years.
Cesar (27:08):
People are waiting.
We have the right to know.
Victor (27:10):
And as for what the affliction that plagued them,
they still actually don't know.
There was a theory going aroundclaiming that it could have
been ergotism, which is a fungus.
Ergot is a fungus that can growon rye and if consumed you have
symptoms of violent convulsionsand you see ghostly figures.
That theory is highly contestedbecause of how the affliction
(27:34):
spread around the area, but manysay it was many factors coming
together.
So like just fear becausethey're in this new continent
religion, family feuds, likepeople even said, many people
were faking symptoms just toaccuse people.
Chris (27:50):
Yeah, I could say that you owe money or something Like
I owe money to and I'm like, oh,fucking hell, it was Rob.
Rob is getting it.
Cesar (27:59):
God, this guy got me, definitely Rob I don't have $17.
Rob (28:03):
I'm going to pay him back.
Chris (28:04):
Yeah right.
Rob (28:07):
This guy is yeah, don't worry, I'm bringing this doctor
over.
He's going to say you're just acouple of weeks.
Victor (28:13):
Just go with it.
All right, I got this old mandoctor that's coming in, that's
about to die.
In a few months you can tell meI'm a doctor.
Let's just follow up on whathappened to some of these people
.
Ann Putnam Jr, at the age of 27, apologized for her role in the
witchcraft trials.
She attributed her actions to adelusion of the devil.
Ann Putnam Jr is the onlyafflicted witness to publicly
(28:37):
acknowledge her wrongdoing inthe years after the witchcraft
trials.
Oh, she probably felt bad aboutthat.
One person, people suck broTituba spent 13 months in jail.
After the trials, samuel Paris,her owner, refused to pay her
jail fees until she was sold offto someone else in 1693.
Rob (28:56):
It's just going to be awkward.
You know she's working aroundthe house and he's like, oh,
because being a slave isn'tawkward already?
I mean that is awkward, butlike we had that thing with the,
I got to get rid of her.
Victor (29:08):
And now Salem Massachusetts becomes the famous
tourist destination for theSalem Witch Trials, which is
flocked to by many everyHalloween season.
Rob (29:21):
And when I was there last time they had tons of people
there and then they would havethese pretty cool ghost tours.
People said that they would endit at a restaurant that had
actually really good food.
I forgot the name of it, but itwas haunted.
The restaurant was haunted, sopeople were saying that, like,
sometimes you'll just see thingsmove, you'll see doors open,
people who work there, they seeweird stuff happening all the
(29:43):
time.
The vibe was bad.
That's all I'm saying aboutthat place, because it was
haunted.
That's all I got for you guys.
Chris (29:49):
So final thoughts.
Chris, it was actually a prettycool story.
I do remember reading about itwhen I was a kid or learning
about it right In history class.
I only remember bits of it, butit was cool Good story.
In Korea it's more of a ghostthan anything.
They call it Chanyeolgishin.
It's a girl ghost.
She died before she got marriedand then because of that, she
(30:12):
has a lot of she's pissed thatshe didn't get married.
So she haunts single guys orpeople that made fun of her for
not getting married, or pressure, yeah, something like that.
Cesar (30:22):
Oh, wow, yeah, has she tried, ninja.
Chris (30:27):
Wears all white and really long hair and covers the
face.
Oh like the ring.
Yeah, pretty much.
Yeah, it's like that.
Rob (30:34):
Well, hell hath no fury than a woman scorned, and she is
terrorizing an entire nationcaesar.
Cesar (30:42):
What I've always found interesting about this or any of
these like crazy storiesthroughout history is like what
are the people around doingbecause I know there has to be
some sane people you're throwingwomen in jail for for just
random nonsense.
What are they thinking?
Some of them are like yeah,yeah, they're witches.
But the other ones, the onesthat are actually saying, the
ones that are actually like arethey too scared to talk, to act
(31:05):
out because they're probablynext?
So interesting stuff rob.
Rob (31:09):
Yeah, I mean, I've been to salem.
Good story.
Uh, some of those ghost storiesare pretty crazy.
Would never go back.
They do have a good craft beerthough.
If you're into that type ofdeal, it's hauntingly good.
Yeah, if I was one of thosesane people, all I would say is
I hope that little girl doesn'tsay my name.
And if she does, I am justclutching my stomach and I'm
going down, I'm just gonna go.
(31:31):
I got the affliction guys,can't I got?
the affliction guys.
It can't be me right, like Isaw him too.
You're just trying to survive.
It was a wild time, but I don'teat bread, so I wouldn't get
any of that rye stuff.
You probably got to look at thepeople that were lean Atkins.
The people that were on Atkins.
(31:52):
The people that were on AtkinsTotally fine, they're like this
place is going crazy.
Victor (31:55):
We want to thank you for listening, but we need your
help.
If you enjoyed this episode, Iwant you to find that share
button and send this podcast toa friend, a loved one or maybe
just someone you want to breakthe ice with.
And while you're by that sharebutton, hit follow to stay
updated on new episodes.
Until next time, stay curious.
Cesar (32:12):
Later.
Tis the season of scare, so I want to know what stories
did you guys love hearing aroundHalloween?
Rob (00:06):
Ooh, I liked old ghost stories, like I used to pick
those books up and read them andbe like why the fuck did I read
this Like Goosebumps?
No, goosebumps was baby shit,but I did read that.
Victor (00:18):
Oh sorry.
Rob (00:19):
Yeah, it was, it was, it was.
No, they had like these, like,like these like old, like ghost
stories books in my elementaryschool and I was like this is a
terrible idea, but I'm justgoing to keep going.
I forgot the name of it.
What was that?
Chris (00:32):
show, was it Nickelodeon Are?
Rob (00:34):
You Afraid of the Dark.
Victor (00:35):
Yes, that Are you.
Chris (00:35):
Afraid of the Dark.
Yes, I used to watch that a lotwith my brother and sister.
Victor (00:45):
Did you ever watch tales from the crypt?
Rob (00:46):
yeah, that was on hbo, right, that was on hbo.
Victor (00:47):
I tried, I tried, but the little thing, the little
skeleton guy and he was likethere's a coffin behind him so I
read that this year thehistoric site of salem,
massachusetts, is expecting 1.2million visitors, which got me
thinking I'm not.
But what happened during theSalem Witch Trials?
Cesar (01:10):
Welcome to the.
Victor (01:10):
I'm Not Dumb but podcast where we won't claim to have
the answers to life's deepestquestions, but we'll give you an
exciting journey into therealms of knowledge you never
knew you'd be.
Cesar (01:15):
Might be mainstream, but not common knowledge.
From artificial intelligence toconspiracy theories, no topic
is too taboo for us to explore.
Let's get curious together.
No topic is too taboo for us toexplore.
Victor (01:25):
Let's get curious together.
Welcome everyone to anotherepisode of I'm Not Dumb, but I'm
your host for today, victor,joined always by Cesar, what's
up?
Rob (01:39):
Rob Hello, and Chris Yep, are you guys feeling the
Halloween?
Victor (01:41):
spirit I am, or it's just indigestion, I'm just
whatever you're not feeling theholiday, the halloween spirit,
well, chris doesn't I don'tthink he really likes halloween.
I think it scares him.
It scares him, it puts a littlefright in his socks.
Is that a korean thing?
Chris (01:55):
is there, like korean superstitions, that avoiding no,
my sister loves watching scarymovies like haunted house.
I think it's just me.
I just don't me and the ghostand doesn't get along.
Rob (02:07):
So yeah, I noticed that.
I noticed that you gotta getinto the season, chris.
Yeah, you gotta get into theseason.
Do you decorate your house?
Do you put spiders and stuffaround there?
Victor (02:16):
nope, too much work not even like a pumpkin there's no
pumpkin out there nope, oh mygod, like a jehovah's Witness
over here.
Rob (02:25):
Seriously, yeah, we like our Jehovah's though.
Thanks for supporting ourchannel.
Victor (02:29):
Shout out Jehovah's Witnesses.
So what do you guys know aboutthe Salem witch trials?
Like, have you visited the town?
I have visited Salem, youvisited Salem.
Rob (02:41):
It's a little spooky.
I did a ghost tour, talkedabout, um, some of the stuff
that was going on there.
I will say I went and there wassome bad juju and I did not
have a good time really yeah,there was some bad juju in that
place and I did not have a goodtime interesting so it's haunted
as shit.
Victor (03:00):
Is what you're?
Rob (03:00):
bad energy, bad energy called town was or it was like
certain location or as soon aswe left, things got better, but
while me and my wife were there,it was just bad energy all
around.
Chris (03:12):
I don't know if I want to go.
Rob (03:13):
I think she picks up energy and throws it at me.
Victor (03:18):
She was actually just mad at you the entire time.
Yeah, I did something.
Rob (03:22):
But when we left, everything was great Before we
got there everything was great.
I will not be going back Withher.
Victor (03:28):
Mad at you.
Today we're going cauldron deepinto the Salem Witch Trials and
to try to get someunderstanding of what happened
there, let's jump into ourpodcast time machine.
Let me just hit some few levershere and pull a few buttons.
Rob (03:46):
Who built this thing, bro?
Victor (03:47):
Jesus Christ here we go Back to 1692.
Guys, are you there?
Rob (03:57):
I'm here, everyone here?
Yep, my Apple Watch says 1692.
Do they have Wi-Fi here?
Victor (04:03):
So here we are in Salem, massachusetts, nestled neatly
by the water, just 16 milesnorth of Boston.
This place was settled in 1626.
A little rundown over here, nostreetlights.
Chris (04:16):
Is it really 1600s?
I always thought it was 1800sfor some reason.
No, it's the 1600s.
Dang, it goes way back.
Yeah, these are old schoolpatriots.
Rob (04:27):
These are conservative values.
What were we?
Victor (04:28):
missing in this country.
That's the real America.
Actually, when I was goingthrough, most of these people
were actually born in Englandand came over.
Rob (04:35):
Oh, so they had an English accent.
Victor (04:37):
eh, the pub was probably banging Ye old pub In January
1692, the daughter and niece ofReverend Samuel Parris became
ill, which to me I feel likeeveryone was probably cold and
sick all the time back then Likewhat's the medicine?
Just hot water soup and a fewleeches and prayer.
Rob (04:59):
And I feel like there was always bloodletting, like how do
you feel?
Oh, not good, let's cut youopen.
You know what, doc, I'm feelinga lot better.
Victor (05:09):
Have you prayed on it?
Rob (05:11):
Yeah, did you clean this thing.
Victor (05:12):
Yeah, I think I hurt my leg.
Try praying three times a day.
Rob (05:17):
It's because you're a sinner, the power of Christ
compares you.
Victor (05:22):
Betty Parris, the daughter, and Abigail Williams,
the niece, suffered from apeculiar illness.
They made strange noises,huddled under furniture and
clutched their heads.
Sounds like bad.
Chris (05:34):
Chinese food.
You sure they're not having apanic attack?
Rob (05:39):
Did you get the shrimp wontons?
Because that'll do it.
Victor (05:43):
Yes, yes, I remember, I had lasagna they complained that
disembodied spirits werestabbing them, choking them and
even jabbing them with pins.
Cool, so after a month offasting, prayer and home
remedies, as a good fatherprescribes, he calls for the
village doctor to help.
Now, the village doctor is aman named William Griggs.
(06:06):
And when you think of a 1692doctor, what do you imagine?
Rob (06:12):
Black wardrobe probably a white face mask, maybe a Like
holding a Bible.
Chris (06:17):
Yeah, I don't know.
Rob (06:19):
You asked me a question.
Okay, do you want the answer ornot?
Yeah, holding like a briefcasewith like Bible Metal cups, or
not?
Chris (06:26):
Yeah, holding like a briefcase with, like Bible,
metal cups in it.
Yeah, cross, holy water, Idon't know.
Victor (06:30):
Like a priest.
Rob (06:31):
He's a doctor, Chris.
This guy's a medicalprofessional.
He went to NYU, langone okay,knee deep in student loans, all
right, this guy's a doctor.
Dammit man, I'm a doctor, not atorpedo technician.
Victor (06:44):
Well, not much is known about this guy.
Actually, he was born inEngland, came to Massachusetts
as an adult.
There are no records of medicaltraining because there's just
no records of medical trainingat this time and actually people
think that he may have beenself-taught.
Cool, and what I foundinteresting was that when he
went to see these girls he wasalready in his 70s.
(07:07):
In fact, he actually died thefollowing year late, a long
career, so like it's like it'sthe, it's january.
he's in.
This old man just comes to thisguy's house he probably lives
like a while away, right, sohe's like going through the cold
, shows up and is like I'm hereto see your daughters, yeah,
(07:32):
what was the last seminar youwent to, doc?
Where did you get your training?
I actually just figured thisstuff out myself.
Rob (07:38):
Yeah, I picked this up.
I didn't actually read anybooks either.
We're in big trouble.
Victor (07:42):
Big trouble.
But the good doc took a look atthe girls and said they're
suffering from bewitchment yeahobviously, so how do you cure
bewitchment?
Rob (07:53):
well.
So the symptoms of bewitchmentare just like pain in your
stomach well, no they.
Victor (07:58):
They saw disembodied spirits.
Chris (08:00):
Uh-huh, they held their heads, they like oh yeah, that's
not a common thing, is thatsomething that was going around?
Victor (08:07):
this listen.
Are you questioning this, good?
Chris (08:10):
70 year old doctor's judgment about bewitchment.
Victor (08:13):
What do you know in 1692 about bewitchment?
Rob (08:17):
if the guy shows up to my house, he takes a look alive.
He made it there first of allhe shows up and he's like this
is bewitchment.
You gotta believe him.
I mean, he's just.
He nailed it.
Confidence is really a lot of,a lot of being a doctor, I think
it probably was like fuck,think of something, quick, quick
, think of something.
Chris (08:36):
And then he was like bitch, you meant he's going to a
reverend's house.
Victor (08:43):
You, you know, it's not like he's just, it was all prep.
He had the whole script, whatto say he heard from before.
He's like you know what?
It's January.
Definitely this is bewitchmentseason 101.
Cold flu bewitchment season.
Rob (08:59):
Just get it together, doc, just get it together.
Victor (09:00):
What are you going to say?
Rob (09:08):
What are you going to say?
What are you going?
Cesar (09:09):
to say when you get there oh, I got to come up with
something.
It's like oh, bewitchment,Trust me, I'm an expert.
Victor (09:11):
Luckily, a friendly neighbor gave the Parises the
cure for bewitchment.
Cesar (09:16):
Oh, what you need to do?
Victor (09:17):
is you need to bake a witch cake?
Cesar (09:21):
Yeah, Chocolate probably no-transcript.
Victor (09:34):
If the dog shakes, the person is cured.
What I shit you not.
Rob (09:43):
It sounds like what they do to fraternity kids hey man,
we're just going to need yoururine.
It's your birthday, don't evenworry about it.
Cesar (09:52):
These Betty Crocker recipes are getting concrete.
Rob (09:56):
So you're telling me he doesn't need eggs?
Cesar (10:01):
No, this is an eggless cake.
Just add, just add water it's athick cake.
Victor (10:04):
It's a thick cake no, it's store-bought this is
supposed to hurt the witch, butit is actually discouraged
because you're using magic andmagic is dangerous and you don't
want people using magic tofight magic yeah, you don't want
to do that right, becausethat's all the devil's work.
You know you can't be handlingmagic.
Use politics that's how youthat's how you fight magic
(10:26):
bureaucracy, baby red tape so,as this is going on, a 12 year
old, ann putnam jr and a 17 yearold, elizabeth hubbard, start
suffering from the same illness,the same symptoms, everything.
So now you have four girls outhere that are suffering from
this.
Rob (10:43):
Uh, they call it the affliction, oh, so this witch is
like she's really getting,she's working over, she's
casting, yeah, she's castingspells left and right now, this
is the end of february andpeople are pressuring them.
Victor (10:55):
These two girls they're like can you see these
apparitions?
Who are these apparitions?
Can you point them out?
Girls start naming theapparitions that they see.
Mind you, you have the12-year-old and the 17-year-old
right and the original two girls.
One is 9 and the other one's 11.
Rob (11:11):
Yeah, I don't know if I want to listen to them.
Victor (11:13):
Well, they start giving names.
They name Tatuba, who is theParis's West Indian slave, oh
God, sarah Good and a womannamed Sarah Osborne.
All three of them, after theywere named, were immediately
arrested.
Cesar (11:27):
What that's this?
You got it.
Rob (11:28):
Yeah, you got to get right to the problem.
You got to get right in thereAll right.
Victor (11:37):
So let me give you an idea of how the interrogation of
Sarah Osborne by the magistratewent, and this is from March
1st 1692.
Does one of you want to help meout?
I have the interrogation ofSarah Osborne.
Does someone want to play likethe man or the woman?
I'm the man.
Rob (11:50):
You're clearly the woman.
I just want to make sure.
Yes, that's fine, that's fine,but you have to use like an
English accent.
Victor (11:53):
I'll be the woman.
That's fine, that's fine, butyou have to use like an English
accent.
I'll be the woman.
I'll play the magistrate andRob is going to play Sarah
Osborne.
Rob (12:03):
I'm Sarah Osborne.
Okay, what's her backstory?
Victor (12:06):
So Sarah is a woman from 1600s.
Okay, honestly, all about her,I know about her.
Cesar (12:13):
And she's going to die All right.
Whoa whoa Spoilers Channel.
Rob (12:16):
That gonna die all right, whoa, whoa spoilers channel,
that channel.
I'm gonna die, I can't, but I'mstill white.
Okay, got it you're underinterrogation.
Victor (12:26):
You just got accused about being a witch and you're
in jail.
Okay and scene.
What evil spirits have youfamiliarity with?
None.
Have you made no contract withthe devil?
No, I have never seen the devilin my life.
Why do you hurt these children?
Rob (12:42):
I do not hurt them.
Victor (12:43):
Who do you employ then to hurt them?
I employ nobody.
What familiarity have you withSarah Good, none, I have not
seen her in two years.
Rob (12:53):
Where did you see her then One day going to town?
What communications had youwith her?
I had none, I only.
How do you do?
Or?
So I did not know her by name.
She's clearly fucking guilty.
Cesar (13:07):
And also Rob, you definitely watch Bridgerton.
Rob (13:10):
Yeah, that one's season three, bravo, bravo, okay, yeah.
Cesar (13:15):
And you know what Wrong point Touche.
Very well done, well done sothen the interrogation continues
.
Victor (13:21):
He had the children stand and point to her, claiming
that she was the woman hurtingthem.
Both good and osborne maintaintheir innocence, but to tuba
confessed again.
I'll play the magistrate.
Rob here will be the westIndian slave.
I'm watching my stories man.
What evil spirits have youfamiliarity with?
(13:44):
None.
Why do you hurt these children?
I do not hurt them.
Who is it?
Rob (13:50):
then that does the devil for aught.
I know, Did you ever see thedevil?
The devil came to me and it bidme serve him.
Who have you seen Four womenand sometimes hurt the devil?
The devil came to me and it bidme serve him.
Who have you seen Four womenand sometimes hurt the children?
Victor (14:03):
Who were they?
Rob (14:04):
Osborne and Sarah Good.
I do not know who the otherwere.
Sarah Good and Osborne wouldhave hurt the children, but I
would not.
She further said there was atall man of Boston that she did
see.
I don't even know what I said.
Victor (14:17):
I had to actually translate this from like old
English, which was like sofrustrating because they had
taken papers that were basicallywritten by hand.
Rob (14:26):
Right.
Victor (14:27):
And then they typed it all out.
It still didn't make a lot ofsense, and then it's using older
versions of words that we don'tuse anymore, so I had to like
semi-translate it the best Icould.
But, as you can see here,tatuba was like listen, it was
these two girls.
They found the devil in Boston.
He's like help me out and helpme torture these girls.
(14:47):
And so I'll be honest, Ibelieve her confession was
coerced because she flipped andnamed the women conveniently,
but not the other two shadowyfigures.
So she just named the womenthat they mentioned, not the
other two shadowy figures.
So she just named the womenthat they mentioned.
Yeah, she just wanted to getout of it.
Chris (15:02):
She was a slave right Shadow figures don't have names.
Cesar (15:05):
That's why they're shadow .
Chris (15:06):
I wonder if she's like fuck this, I'm fucked,
regardless.
Victor (15:09):
Her interrogation got even weirder.
She started talking about thatmysterious man from Boston.
She went on to talk about howshe saw several talking animals,
including a black dog, a redand black cat, a yellow bird,
who all spoke to her, tellingher to serve them and hurt or
kill the children.
Cesar (15:27):
The original Dr Doolittle .
Victor (15:32):
It all just seems too convenient, like if someone
wrote dealing with the devilhandbook, like this would all be
in it.
And, as we know, the devildeals in souls, not just threats
.
Right, like there's usually anexchange, like you get a soul
and then I make you rich or youcan run for politics, like
something.
She's not getting anything outof this.
And don't forget, she is aslave of the family, where the
(15:54):
daughter of her owner isaccusing you of witchcraft.
So like, come on.
Cesar (15:59):
You ever?
Victor (15:59):
dance with the devil in the pale moonlight.
So around early March, three ofthe girls start getting
slightly better, except for12-year-old Ann Putnam, who then
decides to name Martha CoreyDorothy Good.
Dorothy Good is Sarah Good'sfour-year-old daughter and
Elizabeth Proctor, and, with thehelp of, possibly, her mother
(16:20):
and their servant, she namesRebecca Nurse, who's like this
71-year-old woman.
All the women named werearrested and, oddly enough, both
Ann Putnam's mother and theirservant also start complaining
about the affliction that theywere getting sick.
Rob (16:36):
Yeah, I mean, if I'm getting arrested, I'm like
listen, I'm sick too, guys, andfucking, she's a liar and her
dog keeps shitting on my lawn.
I mean like the dog's gotta go.
Victor (16:49):
Now it's going to get interesting because as more
people are being are becomingsick, they just start naming
people around the others thatwere accused.
For example, elizabeth Proctorwas named by the 12-year-old
girl, then her husband, johnProctor, was named, then Sarah
(17:10):
Cloyce.
The sister of the 71-year-oldlady was named Giles Corey, the
husband of Martha, abigail Hobbs, bridget Bishop all these
people were just accused andthen immediately arrested.
Do they think that all thesepeople are a witch?
Yeah, and not even from Salem.
By May, reverend GeorgeBurroughs, who was the minister
at Salem 30 years before, wasissued a warrant to face
witchcraft charges.
Chris (17:29):
And he was living in.
Victor (17:30):
Maine.
Rob (17:32):
Oh my God, so they're just arresting everybody.
Victor (17:36):
What I think is happening here and this is just
my opinion that these young kidswere sick, they were seeing
shit, and now their parents,local townspeople, are just
coming by like screaming who doyou see?
Who are they?
And it's like 1692, right?
So they're probably likeslapping them around, a bit like
trying to get answers Like giveme a name, Sarah.
Chris (17:55):
Who do you see?
Victor (17:56):
Who do you see?
Who do you see?
It's definitely our neighbor,right, joyce?
I'll take care of this.
Cesar (18:04):
Calm down, get a hold of yourself.
Victor (18:07):
You knew most people, right?
Right, john didn't trim hishedges the way I wanted to.
I think I saw him stabbing mydaughter as a ghost.
Yeah, goodbye, john, Goodbye.
Let's just take a step back fora minute and talk about the
town for a bit.
So years earlier, in 1684, theMassachusetts Bay Colony's
charter had been revoked, andthis is important because
(18:28):
without a charter, it kind ofplaced the whole area in a legal
limbo.
All these people that theyarrested.
They can't hold trials for them.
What do they do?
They just put them in the jail.
So they would just do thesepre-trial interviews and then
they would throw them in jail,which sucks, because jail sucks,
and those conditions wereprobably terrible.
Like there was mold everywhere,there was lice all over the
(18:50):
floor, it was so bad.
The first casualty SarahOsborne, if you remember, did
the interrogation.
Yeah, she dies in prison inBoston on May 10th.
Rob (19:02):
RIP.
So it's pretty.
It's like a New York Citypublic school.
Victor (19:06):
It's like where Diddy's being held.
Yeah, but I'm not not sayingDiddy.
Four days later, a new charterarrives and a new governor was
appointed and by the end of May,a special court was created to
try the witchcraft cases andthis court was known as the
Court of Oyer and Terminer,meaning to hear and determine.
They aren't such classy.
(19:27):
Classy words then.
Really, I think it's just Latin, latin who speaks Latin?
So the court was presided overby William Sautin, the colony's
lieutenant governor, and sixother men who are just
businessmen and politicians.
When this court was set up,boston Minister Cotton Mather
went to them and was like listen, when you try witches, you have
(19:48):
to be careful not to just usespectral evidence, meaning don't
just say well, this person wasseen in a dream and so boom,
guilty.
He's like say well, this personwas seen in a dream and so boom
, guilty.
He's like don't do that.
I'm guessing he is like a witchtrial expert.
Rob (20:02):
He's a witch trial.
He deals in witch law.
He does witch law yeah.
Victor (20:06):
Yeah.
Rob (20:07):
Self-taught.
Chris (20:09):
Also self-taught Online Online.
Take it easy, I'm in pre-lawman.
Cesar (20:15):
Thought you pre-med.
What's the?
Victor (20:16):
difference.
The court gets all thisinformation, so what do you
think they do with that?
Absolutely yeah it's not gonnawork for us.
Yeah, they completely ignoredit, which even caused one of the
judges to resign after thefirst trial, through this woman,
bridget bishop, who was foundguilty and hanged on june 10th.
And like, after that one trial,this, this one judge was like
(20:37):
this this is crazy.
Rob (20:38):
I'm getting the fuck out of here.
This is wild.
I'm going to work for MayorAdams.
Victor (20:45):
All my haters become my waiters when I sit down at the
table of success.
So they were just lettingpeople go in there going, yeah,
I saw an apparition that kind oflooked like her and I think she
was the witch, and so they werelike, yeah, I totally accept
that the trials continued and bylate July they will hang
Rebecca Nurse, that 71-year-oldwoman, susanna Martin, elizabeth
(21:08):
Howe, sarah Good and SarahWilds.
And Sarah Good actually wentout like a badass, as she's up
at the gallows, this reverendjust being obnoxious and is,
like you know, confess and saveyour soul, just being like
really preachy, and then shereplies you're a liar, I am no
more a witch than you are awizard, and if you take my life,
(21:30):
god will give you blood todrink.
Boom roasted.
Rob (21:33):
yeah, got him, didn't?
She put a curse on him by doingthat, they believe.
I thought there was somethingabout like when she he hung her
and then she cursed him and then, like every person who's ever
been in that position has died.
Victor (21:53):
She had like a heartbreaking story because when
she was arrested she wasactually pregnant and she gave
birth in prison and the infantdied before she was hanged and
her six year old daughter wasaccused of being a witch.
Um was sent to prison for sevenmonths she didn't die, but she
was like fucked up, uh,psychologically for the of her
(22:15):
life.
So it's just like some sad shit.
Imagine like you're six yearsold and you're like you're a
witch, you're going to jail.
Like what Yo people are wild.
Back then.
Rob (22:25):
So she cursed.
Reverend Noyes died of a brainhemorrhage after in 1718.
And it said that when he wasdying he was coughing up his own
blood, so he was drinking hisblood.
Victor (22:41):
Oh so she did curse me.
I mean though 1718, though, andthat curse took a while.
Rob (22:47):
I mean, it's slow acting.
You know, it's not one of thoseones that just comes and hits
you.
Victor (22:52):
I guess it took its sweet time.
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm just comes andhits you.
I guess it took its sweet time.
In august five more people werehanged and september nine were
executed, including a 71 yearold.
Giles cory, who was refusing torecognize the authority of the
court, was pressed to death andif you're curious of what that
means, you get slowly crushed byheavy rocks.
(23:14):
Oh oh, what a way to go.
You're 71 year, you get slowlycrushed by heavy rocks.
Rob (23:16):
Oh, what a way to go.
Victor (23:17):
You're a 71-year-old man too, getting crushed by rocks.
Rob (23:21):
I would have moved, I would have just been like you know
what, the neighborhood's gonedownhill.
Cesar (23:27):
Let's get the fuck out of here.
I'm paying these taxes, did Iget?
Rob (23:31):
paid in these roads.
Yeah, I'm out of here.
Chris (23:33):
This neighborhood sure has gone downhill.
Victor (23:36):
By October 1692, public opinion of the court was, let's
just say, really bad.
People wrote letterscomplaining about it, even
ministries all over the area, orlike this this seems messed up.
You guys are using too much bsevidence.
You guys need to stop this shit.
So governoripps the governor atthe time dissolves the court,
(23:56):
but there is still a bunch ofpeople in jail for witchcraft.
He has the MassachusettsSupreme Court meet for a special
session to try the remainingcases, this time without
accepting spectral evidence, andonly finds three of 56 people
guilty.
I mean, those are betternumbers, but even still the
(24:17):
governor steps in again and sayslisten, everyone is free to go.
Just pay your jail fee of twoshillings six pence a week,
which is about $16, and we'regood.
Rob (24:28):
Jesus.
Victor (24:29):
Is it?
Rob (24:29):
hard to get $16 at that time, though, if you're poor,
seems like a lot of these peoplewere poor.
Victor (24:35):
I mean, what's a Big Mac ?
Rob (24:41):
About 15 bucks, if you're getting the value meal.
Victor (24:42):
Could you afford a big mac?
That's crazy, I don't know.
No, the price of a big mac, orpaying to get out of jail jail
was fine big man 15 bucks for away you know, just put me back
in jail.
Cesar (24:55):
People can't afford to pay their rent or mortgage.
But you can afford a deliciousBig Mac.
Victor (25:01):
And that marked the end of the Salem witch trials.
In total, 25 people were killed, 19 hanged, 5 died in jail, 1
tortured to death, more than 150people were jailed for using
witchcraft and over 200 peoplewere accused.
Rob (25:19):
jesus witches have candles, witches have brooms.
Their houses are probably, likeyou know, pimped out a little
witchy.
Yeah, you go.
You ever go to somebody's house.
You're like this person'sdefinitely right.
Yeah, this is like.
Uh, who would do a drapes likethat?
Victor (25:35):
I did read.
There was one case that someonefound like a knife that was
like missing a point, and theywere trying to use that as
evidence.
But I mean again, you don'treally have a police force here,
like what's an investigation?
It's 1692.
Rob (25:49):
There's nothing.
Victor (25:50):
You don't have, you're not dusting for prints.
Cesar (25:51):
No, no, no fingerprints.
Victor (25:53):
I don't think so In 1702 , the General Court of
Massachusetts declared thetrials unlawful and the colony
passed a bill overturningwitchcraft convictions,
mentioning 22 individuals byname.
Later, in 1957, a resolutionexonerated additional victims.
(26:14):
What Took a while Long longerthan the curse and in 2021, this
is 329 years after the eventsof salem, elizabeth johnson jr
was the last person to beexonerated by massachusetts.
Wow, so three years ago theygot the last person that was
exonerated because called awitch did they say why it took
(26:35):
so long?
or did they just completelyforgot about her, or there was
letters from, like a middleschool teacher and her class
that they kept on, were likesubmitting letters like you
should exonerate this woman forwhatever, whatever reason now,
how did she take the news?
Cesar (26:48):
was she happy, was she?
Rob (26:51):
she's gonna sue the shit out of that.
You know what?
Victor (26:55):
I submitted for a request for comment.
She never got back to me.
Cesar (26:58):
Yo, she's ghosting us, she's ghosting us?
Rob (27:02):
Yeah, why would you want to come out and say something?
Victor (27:04):
Make a statement.
At least it's been 329 years.
Cesar (27:08):
People are waiting.
We have the right to know.
Victor (27:10):
And as for what the affliction that plagued them,
they still actually don't know.
There was a theory going aroundclaiming that it could have
been ergotism, which is a fungus.
Ergot is a fungus that can growon rye and if consumed you have
symptoms of violent convulsionsand you see ghostly figures.
That theory is highly contestedbecause of how the affliction
(27:34):
spread around the area, but manysay it was many factors coming
together.
So like just fear becausethey're in this new continent
religion, family feuds, likepeople even said, many people
were faking symptoms just toaccuse people.
Chris (27:50):
Yeah, I could say that you owe money or something Like
I owe money to and I'm like, oh,fucking hell, it was Rob.
Rob is getting it.
Cesar (27:59):
God, this guy got me, definitely Rob I don't have $17.
Rob (28:03):
I'm going to pay him back.
Chris (28:04):
Yeah right.
Rob (28:07):
This guy is yeah, don't worry, I'm bringing this doctor
over.
He's going to say you're just acouple of weeks.
Victor (28:13):
Just go with it.
All right, I got this old mandoctor that's coming in, that's
about to die.
In a few months you can tell meI'm a doctor.
Let's just follow up on whathappened to some of these people
.
Ann Putnam Jr, at the age of 27, apologized for her role in the
witchcraft trials.
She attributed her actions to adelusion of the devil.
Ann Putnam Jr is the onlyafflicted witness to publicly
(28:37):
acknowledge her wrongdoing inthe years after the witchcraft
trials.
Oh, she probably felt bad aboutthat.
One person, people suck broTituba spent 13 months in jail.
After the trials, samuel Paris,her owner, refused to pay her
jail fees until she was sold offto someone else in 1693.
Rob (28:56):
It's just going to be awkward.
You know she's working aroundthe house and he's like, oh,
because being a slave isn'tawkward already?
I mean that is awkward, butlike we had that thing with the,
I got to get rid of her.
Victor (29:08):
And now Salem Massachusetts becomes the famous
tourist destination for theSalem Witch Trials, which is
flocked to by many everyHalloween season.
Rob (29:21):
And when I was there last time they had tons of people
there and then they would havethese pretty cool ghost tours.
People said that they would endit at a restaurant that had
actually really good food.
I forgot the name of it, but itwas haunted.
The restaurant was haunted, sopeople were saying that, like,
sometimes you'll just see thingsmove, you'll see doors open,
people who work there, they seeweird stuff happening all the
(29:43):
time.
The vibe was bad.
That's all I'm saying aboutthat place, because it was
haunted.
That's all I got for you guys.
Chris (29:49):
So final thoughts.
Chris, it was actually a prettycool story.
I do remember reading about itwhen I was a kid or learning
about it right In history class.
I only remember bits of it, butit was cool Good story.
In Korea it's more of a ghostthan anything.
They call it Chanyeolgishin.
It's a girl ghost.
She died before she got marriedand then because of that, she
(30:12):
has a lot of she's pissed thatshe didn't get married.
So she haunts single guys orpeople that made fun of her for
not getting married, or pressure, yeah, something like that.
Cesar (30:22):
Oh, wow, yeah, has she tried, ninja.
Chris (30:27):
Wears all white and really long hair and covers the
face.
Oh like the ring.
Yeah, pretty much.
Yeah, it's like that.
Rob (30:34):
Well, hell hath no fury than a woman scorned, and she is
terrorizing an entire nationcaesar.
Cesar (30:42):
What I've always found interesting about this or any of
these like crazy storiesthroughout history is like what
are the people around doingbecause I know there has to be
some sane people you're throwingwomen in jail for for just
random nonsense.
What are they thinking?
Some of them are like yeah,yeah, they're witches.
But the other ones, the onesthat are actually saying, the
ones that are actually like arethey too scared to talk, to act
(31:05):
out because they're probablynext?
So interesting stuff rob.
Rob (31:09):
Yeah, I mean, I've been to salem.
Good story.
Uh, some of those ghost storiesare pretty crazy.
Would never go back.
They do have a good craft beerthough.
If you're into that type ofdeal, it's hauntingly good.
Yeah, if I was one of thosesane people, all I would say is
I hope that little girl doesn'tsay my name.
And if she does, I am justclutching my stomach and I'm
going down, I'm just gonna go.
(31:31):
I got the affliction guys,can't I got?
the affliction guys.
It can't be me right, like Isaw him too.
You're just trying to survive.
It was a wild time, but I don'teat bread, so I wouldn't get
any of that rye stuff.
You probably got to look at thepeople that were lean Atkins.
The people that were on Atkins.
(31:52):
The people that were on AtkinsTotally fine, they're like this
place is going crazy.
Victor (31:55):
We want to thank you for listening, but we need your
help.
If you enjoyed this episode, Iwant you to find that share
button and send this podcast toa friend, a loved one or maybe
just someone you want to breakthe ice with.
And while you're by that sharebutton, hit follow to stay
updated on new episodes.
Until next time, stay curious.
Cesar (32:12):
Later.
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