January 29, 2025 • 50 mins
Screenwriter and producer Michael Box joins us on the "I'm Not Dumb, but Podcast" to share his fascinating journey in film making. With more than 15 years of experience in writing, Michael speaks about how his passion for movies and music set the stage for his life creating films.
With his writing partner Patrick, Michael created the production company Echo Eterna based out of Dayton, Ohio. Which has undertaken the lengthy process of their new project Speakeasy. A narrative film that romanticizes the experience of being in an underground rock band, desperately fighting to be heard as the outside world feels like it’s closing in.
Michael offers insights into the challenges of creative expression, his writing process and how his role transitions from screenwriting into producing. He takes us through a roller coaster of emotions detailing the trails of creating a full feature film outside of the world of big studios. We explore how tools like AI may effect the industry and finally someone sheds a light on how to interpret Christopher Nolan's "Tenet".
Through tales of personal experiences, unexpected challenges, and rewarding collaborations, we underscore the importance of fair compensation and the joy of working with talented individuals in the ever-evolving world of film making.
You can find out more about Michael Box and the movie Speakeasy below, drop him a follow:
https://www.echoeterna.com/
https://www.speakeasythemovie.com/
https://www.instagram.com/mikewritesmovies
Follow The I'm Not Dumb But Podcast
https://www.youtube.com/@ImNotDumbButPodcast
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Victor (00:00):
Welcome everyone to the I'm Not Dumb, but Podcast.
I'm your host for today, victor, joined always by Rob Hello and
Chris Yo.
So, guys, give me a movie thatyou absolutely love.
Rob (00:14):
I would have to say Top Gun .
I had the shot.
There was no danger, so I tookit.
Chris (00:18):
For me it's James Bond 007 series, the whole series.
Yes, I love the whole series.
Yes, who's your favorite?
James Bond Tomorrow, never Die.
That's one of my favorite ones.
Pierce Brosnan, yeah.
Victor (00:30):
Is that the one with the Koreans?
Maybe, chris.
I think it was Chris.
Come on, You're just like wehad Koreans in there, maybe
that's why we made it, and we'renot the bad guys.
Rob (00:46):
wait, wait, are we, are we?
Chris (00:50):
I think it's something with the north koreans, isn't?
It wasn't?
Victor (00:52):
it no, uh, no, actually that was wrong.
I was wrong.
Sorry, tomorrow, never.
Dies is the one with michelleyo we knew there was something
there's gotta be something there, but you live to die another
day.
Have you ever thought about thepeople behind the scenes?
Like you know the names on thecredits, like what do they do
and how important are they?
Or like how did the movie evenstart?
(01:14):
I?
Chris (01:14):
always thought producers and directors are same person,
is it?
No, I don't think exclusivelyno, but than that I know there's
like a sound engineers right.
Other than that, I have no idea.
Victor (01:27):
There's a janitor.
Rob (01:30):
The only time I wait for the credits is if I know there's
something after the credits Iwant to see, like the guy
punching the bag at the end I'mlike, all right, there's a
sequel coming.
Victor (01:39):
The Marvel has warped your mind.
Rob (01:41):
Yes, I need something at the end and then I just wait to
see like, oh, who was waiternumber two?
I just wanted to know who thewaiter was.
The guy looked familiar.
Victor (01:50):
The guy looked familiar With us in the studio today is
screenwriter and producerMichael Box.
Over 15 years he has written orco-written over 10 screenplays,
short stories and TV pitches.
Mike co-founded Echo EternaProductions, operating out of
Dayton Ohio, and is here to helpus answer the question.
I'm not dumb, but who's MichaelBox?
(02:11):
Welcome to the I'm not dumb,but podcast, where we won't
claim to have the answers tolife's deepest questions, but
we'll give you an excitingjourney into the realms of
knowledge you never knew youneeded.
Might be mainstream, but notcommon knowledge.
From artificial intelligence toconspiracy theories, no topic
is too taboo for us to explore.
Let's get curious together,mike welcome.
(02:33):
Hey, thanks for having me, Iappreciate it.
Welcome to the podcast.
Yeah, how are you today?
Mike (02:39):
I'm really good.
Thanks for asking.
That's a great thing to ask.
Victor (02:42):
So you've been writing for some time now, like 15 years
.
Mike (02:46):
Well, I've always wanted to be a writer.
So when I was in high school, Iwas editor of the yearbook, the
newspaper, the literarymagazine.
I actually was going to go toschool on a journalism
scholarship.
Things took a different, longapproach to get back to that,
but, um, but here I am again.
Um so, uh, my writing partner,patrick, uh, he and I have been
(03:10):
writing together for about 15years, but we've known each
other about 25 years.
We started with music together.
Uh, I'm a bass player andguitarist, he's a drummer.
Uh, yeah, we played together ina couple of bands and so we've
been I mean, we've been workingcollaboratively for 20 plus
years.
Victor (03:30):
Oh, wow.
And so when did you get thatfirst feeling of like, hey, I
need to be like a storyteller?
Mike (03:36):
I come from a family of Scotch Irish people, and so
storytelling is genetic.
Victor (03:44):
So it was like storytelling or making Guinness
or fighting.
You know, fighting, yeah, proveme wrong.
Rob (03:50):
I dare you.
Mike (03:54):
We always joke that like we put the funk in family
function.
You know, everybody has to havea little bit of alcohol in
order to keep from justobliterating each other.
Victor (04:06):
It's your natural habitat, like you need to get
into it.
Mike (04:08):
Well, yeah, I mean the, the the, my generation does like
the, the my family, my parents'generation none of them are
drinkers, really, no, no.
So I think the kids just allrealized how awful that has to
be all the time.
But no, we, we we have a goodtime.
Our family's not as close as weused to be, but we grew up all
(04:29):
within like an hour of eachother at one point, yeah.
But as far as writing goes, Ialways wanted to be a writer.
I don't know if you ever sawthe movie Almost Famous.
It's a Cameron Crowe, uh, I wasa writer before.
I was a musician, uh, but I wasalways a music lover, and so I
(04:50):
had this like crazy idea that Iwanted to be a writer who
followed bands and wrote aboutthem and did the whole.
Rolling Stones article thing,and this was I.
I'm quite a bit older than youguys.
I graduated in 94.
Uh in 94, uh, so this wasbefore almost famous came out.
Rob (05:06):
So when that movie came out , I was like this is me, this is
my journey yeah, this is aboutme this is supposed to be me,
yeah, right.
Mike (05:13):
So when I got to college I kind of fell into the uh,
artsier, musically inclinedcrowd and I started playing
guitar and really fell in lovewith music, learned how to
appreciate music for more thanjust its pop culture influence,
but appreciate it more on amusic theory side, writing music
(05:34):
, that kind of thing.
But the writing was always apart of it, it was always there.
I wrote for the local newspapers, I've written for a few
magazines and it was just one ofthose things where it took
reconnecting with that seed ofwanting to be a writer, or for
me to get back into it, patrickhad a screenplay that he was
(05:58):
focused on producing himself andhe knew that I was a writer and
he was.
You know, he was like hey, doyou mind reading over this?
It was about 300 pages.
So if you know anything aboutscreenplays, it's usually a page
a minute, so he was writing anepic movie, so I helped him pare
(06:20):
that down and once once werealized that we worked really
well together in that area wewere able to pare it down to
about a 90 to 100 pagescreenplay and we decided to
film it and that was our firstproject together we shot.
It was called A Savior.
Come my Way.
It was a time traveling storyabout a man desperate to do
(06:43):
whatever he could to help hisfamily and um.
We shot it on 16 millimeterfilm, which was ambitious, uh,
for our first feature, um, andwe looked at that as our, our
student film.
That was our film school.
We learned a lot about runninga set, working with actors,
working with the crew Was that?
Victor (07:03):
your first experience in that kind of world?
Like was your partner alreadyin it?
Mike (07:07):
he was um a music video producer and director at the
time okay so he was familiarwith filmmaking on a short form
yeah uh, kind of kind of amedium, um, but uh, like I said,
we we learned how to, how towork really well together.
We learned what his strengthswere, what my strengths were.
I'm a writer-producer, he's adirector-cinematographer, and so
(07:32):
it makes for a really goodpartnership because I can keep
him focused on his tasks wherehe has the vision of where to go
creatively.
I tend to want to put the wordsin the actor's mouths.
I really like writing dialoguewhere he likes to really write
action lines, and so we workreally well together in that way
(07:55):
.
Rob (07:55):
Yeah, writing is one of those things where, like
sometimes I don't even knowwhere to start, because I've
started trying to script what Isay.
I feel like the episodes justcome out way better.
Mike (08:04):
They do like not not from what listening to you guys, not
from experience, but like, yeah,every podcast that I listen to,
yeah, you can tell when it's ascripted podcast or when it's
just an ad-libbed like let'sshoot the shit podcast.
The the written, scriptedpodcasts tend to go so much
smoother.
They stay on point, like youknow.
Yeah, I, that's what I feltlike it was so much smoother.
Rob (08:24):
They stay on point.
But you know, yeah, I that'swhat I felt, like it was so much
more structured, right, yeah,and and writing dialogue is it's
tough Cause I'll be like, oh,this is, this is exactly how I
would say it, and then I say,and I go, I don't talk like that
or no one talks yeah.
Mike (08:40):
Yeah, some of my favorite dialogue writers are guys like
Aaron Sorkin, who wrote SocialNetwork screenplay, yeah.
Or Quentin Tarantino, you knowthey write dialogue in a hyper
realistic way.
So it's yes, it's similar towhat or to how other people talk
.
You've heard people talk likethat, but not in that way.
(09:04):
They don't talk over each other, they don't stutter when they
speak, they don't pause andstart and then pause again.
It's quick, rhythmic writingand it's just one of those
things that it's a craft to beable to write that way, and it
takes a lot of time learningwhat your style is as a writer
(09:24):
to make it work.
Victor (09:26):
Now, when you're writing dialogue for, let's say,
different characters, do youfind it tricky to not bring your
own voice into both charactersor multiple characters?
Mike (09:36):
Every character that Pat and I have written something
about.
That character is a part of us,each of us.
That character is a part of us,each of us.
Um, you know our currentproject.
It's about musicians and, uh,they each represent us in
certain ways.
I tend to like to put a specificpersonality trait and assign
that to a character.
(09:58):
So one of the characters in ourproject, uh, his name's Lucas
and he's very anarchist, kind ofpunk, you know, fuck the man,
damn the man, damn the system.
That is definitely me.
When I was 17, 18, 19, 20 yearsold, I had the same kind of
(10:18):
anti-authority vibe.
And you know another one of ourcharacters, weston, is kind of
an idealist dreamer with dreamsof.
You know another one of ourcharacters, weston, is kind of
an idealist dreamer with dreamsof, you know, being an artist
that people respect andrecognize for his talent, and
that's Pat.
Pat has that same vibe abouthim.
(10:45):
Ascribe a certain characteristic, a certain personality trait of
yourself on that character.
It's really easy for you towrite in that way.
But it's also fun to write acharacter who's not anything
like you, the character you wishyou could speak like or act
like or talk like.
It's fun to write thosecharacters because they're a
challenge, that it doesn't comenaturally to me for me to write
(11:06):
somebody who's just a hugeasshole, because I'm not.
I mean, like, like, those whoknow me know that I'm not an
asshole, even though, like, mypersonality is typically a
little bit like just give mesome space.
You know, I'm an introvert bynature.
I have to turn on the extrovert, and so, uh, to write an
asshole is really difficultsometimes, because I'm like all
(11:29):
right, I don't like this guyright, yeah though I hear for
actors that it is more fun toplay the the bad guy.
It is asshole type it is youknow you, you see it like actors
who really just chew up thescenery.
Uh, when they get a meatycharacter who's just like really
well-rounded but like not verylikable, like like, uh, daniel
(11:53):
day lewis when he played danielplainview, and uh, there will be
blood you know, like nobodyreally likes that character that
character's a total asshole youknow, not a good person, no, a
terrible person, but he had agreat time playing that role.
You could tell, you know, maybetoo good probably, yeah, I mean,
he is one of the best actorswho's ever lived.
(12:14):
He has three academy awards.
Chris (12:15):
You know, that's true, I drink your milkshake do you ever
go back to your old dialogueand you'd be like what the fuck?
Mike (12:27):
oh yeah, oh yeah, like that is garbage, you know, or?
Or you, you learn somethingabout yourself in that time and
you go oh, I would never writethat right now yeah, that joke
doesn't land.
That joke is so sexist,chauvinist, bigoted.
(12:49):
Why would I have ever writtenthat that's gross?
And now you're like oh man,like I was so free, I was so
unencumbered.
Victor (13:02):
I mean, that's also a sign of just like times, the
times changing, so it's likeyou've written something for
that period of time.
Mike (13:09):
Absolutely.
Victor (13:10):
People's society is.
And then now you're here, yeah,and you're like I.
Now I have to shift.
Mike (13:14):
Oh yeah, my audience is kind of shift, Absolutely,
Absolutely, and you know it'sfun to write a shifting mindset
in mind.
The project that we'recurrently working on.
It's called Speakeasy I don'tknow if I've actually said the
name of it yet.
Victor (13:30):
No, not yet.
I was going to ask you whatyou're working on.
It's called.
Mike (13:33):
Speakeasy.
It's about a renegade band ofpunk musicians who are living in
a near future dystopian societywhere the government is
suppressing acts ofself-expression as political
dissent, and so they're-.
Chris (13:50):
So two years from now?
Yeah, exactly Like just thisweek, maybe.
Mike (13:57):
But they basically have to go underground to perform and
they're at risk of being raidedby the government enforcers and
it's a.
It's a really dark story but atthe same time it's full of,
like, fun moments becausethey're a punk band and they
have a good time and you knowthey make a lot of stupid
(14:20):
decisions, but you know, butthey're I mean they're in their
20s.
Everybody made stupid decisionsin their forties, no matter
what the political no no, not atall.
Victor (14:31):
So you've been writing and you telling a lot of stories
.
So like tell me, did youunderstand tenant?
Mike (14:37):
The fifth time I watched it.
Well see, here's the thing Idon't.
Well see, here's the thing Anyof you guys diagnosed ADHD.
Victor (14:47):
No, not diagnosed at least.
Okay, everybody'sself-diagnosed.
Chris (14:50):
Self-treating.
Rob (14:53):
I am self-treating.
Mike (14:54):
Okay, so I was diagnosed in my 40s, which, when I was
diagnosed, I was like holy shit,this would have been helpful to
know when I was in elementaryschool, right?
Because of that, I've noticedcertain things about the way
that I consume media, and one ofthose is I love listening to
(15:15):
music with headphones on.
Oh, okay, because I feel like Iget the mix that the producer
was trying to go for.
I get it so much better that theproducer was trying to go, for
I get it so much better If theywere doing playing with the
stereo sounds.
I feel like I feel that better.
So one of the ways that I watchmovies and a lot of people do
this now, I think, but I watcheverything with captions on- I
(15:37):
just started doing that actually.
And so with Tenet it's almostnecessary because the audio is
so awfully mixed.
I feel like a director on thatlevel, like Nolan's level.
He knew what he was doing.
Victor (15:54):
Yeah, he puts a lot of detail into everything that he
does, right.
Mike (15:58):
So I feel like he knew that it was being mixed in a
weird way.
Victor (16:02):
So maybe the dialogue's not as important as the what's
going on on screen, but I feellike I need to know what's going
on in the character's mind, andso I watch everything with the
dialogue or with the captions onwell, I also just wanted to
bring up the point of that, justlike do you feel that if
someone misses the point of themovie or what you're writing
(16:23):
like, is that something that youtake internally, or do you just
like nah, the viewers are justnot getting it I think that you
have to look at at it as art,and art is something that
everybody interprets differently, and so I can look at a
painting and go, oh, that isreally sick, I'm really into
this.
Mike (16:42):
And my wife can look at it go, yeah, that's boring, like I
don't.
I don't feel anything from that, and and I think that with
movies.
We.
It sounds pretentious to saymovies are art, but they are
they're.
They're a form of art it's aform of expression, absolutely,
and I think that, like I said,everybody interprets a movie
differently.
Uh, some people look at a movielike mother.
(17:04):
I don't know if you guys haveseen Darren Aronofsky's Mother
Harvey.
Rob (17:07):
R.
Mike (17:07):
Bardem was in it with Jennifer.
Lawrence Great movie,panic-inducing, heart attack,
anxiety-type movie, and it's anendurance test.
But a lot of people just didn'tfeel like it was a successful
story because it was so heavy onthe metaphor.
But I feel like that's part ofputting out art is you let
(17:31):
people experience it.
If they enjoyed it or theydidn't, I hope they felt
something.
If they didn't like it same wayI expected you to, I want to
know why, not because I need todefend it, but because I'm
(17:53):
seriously curious.
What did you feel?
Was it just ambivalence, or wasit more like oh, I'm confronted
by something about myself thatI don't like and so that makes
me not like this, which canhappen with a lot of art.
Rob (18:07):
When you start your first drafts?
Is it like pen to paper whenyou start off, or is it digital?
Mike (18:14):
I like to write pen to paper to start a draft, but I
gather a lot of notes in myphone, notes in my phone.
I'll have a scene idea or apiece of dialogue that I'm like.
I really need a character tosay this.
Then I'll write a scene aroundthat piece of dialogue.
(18:35):
But, that being said, when Isit down to write a first draft,
I really want that tactile feelof pen on paper.
It just feels good to me.
Victor (18:48):
That just might show your age.
Mike (18:51):
Yeah, definitely no, because I feel the same way.
Victor (18:53):
Sometimes I just like to write things down and scribble.
Mike (18:57):
Yeah, and I do scribble a lot and I doodle while I'm
thinking, and Pat, my writingpartner while I'm thinking, and,
um, pat, my my writing partner,he uh keeps little, uh moleskin
notebooks in his pocket all thetime and he writes down stuff
all the time.
He probably has about 60 or 70of them that he's filled up
during our time, during our timetogether.
Yeah, it's ridiculous.
Victor (19:18):
He's got.
He's firing in all cylindersall the time he is he does.
Mike (19:21):
I don't know when the guy sleeps.
Guy sleeps um, so he'll text meat like two in the morning and
he'll be like hey, I just hadthis idea.
Rob (19:28):
I'm like dude, you should be sleeping where's like the
weirdest place that you were,where an idea just popped into
your head and you're like, uh, Igotta do this my, my wife and
kids joke about the fact that Ihave my phone on a perch in the
shower all the time, because Iwill.
Mike (19:45):
I will get an idea while I'm in the shower and I'll be
like.
So.
One of the things that I have aproblem with is I'll get great
ideas that I'll be like.
This is such an incredible idea.
There's no way I'll forgetabout it.
I oh yeah, it's gone yeah, it'sgone instantly, I'll be laying
down in bed.
I'll be like, oh, it's so good,i'll'll be laying down in bed.
I'll be like, oh, it's so good,I'll definitely remember this
(20:07):
in the morning.
It's gone?
Chris (20:08):
Yep, it's gone yeah.
Rob (20:09):
I was talking to somebody who's also into writing and when
they're trying to develop thecharacter they would live a day
as this person, they would thinkas this person Do you find
yourself doing?
Chris (20:19):
that.
Rob (20:20):
Like walking around, like this guy would do this, or he
would walk into this coffee shoplike this Is he method writing?
Yeah, method writing.
Mike (20:28):
Not particularly for me.
I tend to be an introvert whenI'm out in public and so I spend
a lot of time at a coffee shopjust watching other people and
that's like I'll get ideas.
Like I wonder what that guy wasdoing before he walked in here.
I bet he looks like he was likeall disheveled and maybe like
(20:50):
flushed.
I bet he was in a fight withsomebody, like he was arguing
with somebody.
Chris (20:58):
And so I'll build a scene out of like something that
probably didn't happen.
Mike (21:03):
He's probably just red faced all the time.
But yeah, I just like to thinklike what was going on in that
person's life five minutes agoand then you know, try to build
that story in my head.
Victor (21:14):
So you and your partner, you guys have a production
company, right, yeah?
Mike (21:16):
Echo Eterna Productions.
We launched on 2-22-22.
It was mostly because we wereworking on this project and we
wanted to incorporate as an LLCand build the company so that we
can hopefully start workingwith some investors.
We've been pitching toinvestors for this project for
(21:38):
about six months.
It's a really difficult processto get people to buy into an
indie, an indie film yeah, howdoes?
Victor (21:46):
how does that whole process work like?
So do you go out like, do youlike make a little sample for
them?
Do you have to film the wholething and then pitch it like um?
Mike (21:55):
some people do a concept, a proof of concept film, so like
a short film, maybe a scenetells us a little bit about the
story.
In hindsight, that would havebeen really great for us.
But we didn't go that route.
We did a fundraiser, like alocal fundraiser, where we had
companies, some businesses inthe area.
(22:15):
They donated some items.
We did an auction where some ofthe props that I've been
building.
We auctioned those off andthey'll be used in the film and
then signed by the cast and thengiven to the people who bought
those for auction.
And then we got companies thatdonated gift bags and we raffled
(22:36):
those off.
We got companies that donatedgift bags and we raffled those
off.
We had a friend of ours owns awine bar in Dayton and she
hosted it for us and it wasreally successful.
It helped us.
It basically funded ourproduction costs for the year,
but you know that was in Marchof last year.
It didn't get us filming.
(22:56):
It basically helped us tolaunch.
It was you know that was inMarch of last year.
It didn't get us filming.
It basically helped us tolaunch.
It was, you know, seed money.
Some people go the route ofcrowdfunding, but you can only
ask your friends and family for50 bucks so many times before
they're like you're a nuisance.
Victor (23:12):
Yeah, grandma come on, get a real job.
Is this for next Christmas?
Get a real job, moocher?
Yeah, exactly.
Grandma come on, get a real job.
Mike (23:17):
That's all you got.
Is this for next Christmas?
Get a real job, Moocher.
Yeah, exactly.
Hey, Grandma, have you done?
Your will, yet Is there anyonewho can get an?
Victor (23:25):
advance on the will.
How old's this vase, by the way?
You don't need it, right.
Chris (23:30):
I need some money.
Mike (23:32):
I mean, the old school way was you just took out an extra
mortgage on your house or youmaxed out your credit cards, or
you, you know like Kevin Smith,when he financed clerks, he
maxed out credit cards, he solda huge comic book collection,
you know, and he still made thatmovie for like $25,000, which I
(23:55):
mean honestly Granted it was along time ago though.
Victor (23:58):
Yeah, inflation $20,000 got you.
Yeah, it was like 94, 93.
Yeah.
Mike (24:02):
You can't make.
I mean, you can make a moviefor that much now, but you don't
want to make a movie for thatmuch.
Not a full-length production.
And ours is ambitious we'rewriting all of the music
ourselves.
So the band is playing actualoriginal songs that we've
(24:23):
written.
We have some musician friendsin the Dayton music scene and
the society our society musicscene who are contributing songs
for like side charactermusicians who are playing in the
same venues as our maincharacters and we cut a vinyl
for that.
Everybody who bid on oreverybody who won an auction
(24:44):
item got a free vinyl to go withthat at our fundraiser.
Victor (24:50):
Just like a thank you for that.
Mike (24:52):
Yeah, it was, it was.
You know, that's a fun.
We like tying in stuff likethat.
I printed speakeasy guitarpicks and know like threw those,
those out.
They were everywhere.
People could just take thosehome with them.
Victor (25:04):
Uh, I made uh speakeasy, speakeasy flasks that I uh and
what like, of the portion thatyou have to fundraise, like how
much percentage wise like wouldgo to marketing versus the
actual production of the film.
Mike (25:17):
For a Hollywood production , almost like if they had a
hundred million dollar budget.
About 50 million will also beadded to that to go into
marketing and commercials andall that stuff.
So when you hear a film wassuccessful, you have to consider
how much they also put into themarketing campaign.
(25:39):
It could be a huge marketingcampaign.
I know Marvel puts a ton ofmoney into their marketing.
They do tie-ins with fast foodbusinesses and movie theaters,
but they also get huge taxcredits for filming in places
like Ohio, which has a greatfilm tax credit.
Oh, does it.
Yeah, that's why a lot of theMarvel stuff is filmed up in
(26:00):
Cleveland and then over inPittsburgh.
Victor (26:02):
Oh, I thought they were down in Georgia.
Mike (26:04):
Yeah, no, like a lot of the Cityscape stuff, DC stuff,
they also film in Cleveland andin Pittsburgh, just because I
think Pittsburgh has a reallygreat film scene as well.
We have two of our actors onSpeakeasy are from the
Pittsburgh area, one's from NewYork.
He's a musician in Brooklyn,One's from the Nashville area,
(26:25):
and the two of them are herefrom Ohio.
And we've got a couple otherpeople.
We've got one woman, youngwoman.
She's from Atlanta, georgia,and so we've got a lot of people
from all over the place thatare already excited, ready to go
.
We just need to get the funding.
Chris (26:40):
That's like I said that's the hard part.
Mike (26:42):
We've pitched to people we put together like a film or a
video pitch that's kind of agraphic novel style, but like a
motion graphic novel, andexplain the core concept of the
film and what we're looking for,where the money would go.
I think that people like theidea that we're doing all the
music ourselves.
We're trying to do things,we're doing all the location
(27:06):
scouting.
We're going to be shooting in alot of abandoned buildings.
The Dayton, cincinnati area hasa really great film community.
A lot of short film directorsare in this area.
Not a ton of features are beingmade here, but I think that's
changing.
We have a good amount of talent.
The actors and the musicians inthis area are phenomenal and
(27:27):
they just get overlooked on thebigger market.
So you know we're excited toget on set.
My two favorite things.
I'd rather be in the studiowriting or on set with the
actors.
Victor (27:42):
Yeah, you know you started mainly just writing Like
how did you find the transitionto doing more of the producing
side and putting all this otherstuff together?
Mike (27:52):
So my degree is in organizational leadership, like
nonprofits, and I've been on theboard of a arts council here in
the area.
I was the vice president of thearts council here for a couple
of years and I also worked withseveral youth organizations,
(28:14):
community youth organizations,youth organizations, community
youth organizations and so mybackground is really in
leadership in those frameworksof community support, building
initiatives with otherorganizations, putting on large
scale events, budgets like allthat kind of stuff.
So like it really kind oftranslates really well into the
(28:35):
producing side of things.
I don't mind talking, obviously, um, so, uh, so, especially
with something that I'mpassionate about, I think you
guys you guys probablyunderstand yeah I mean, chris
seems like a chatterbox.
Victor (28:49):
Oh, chris is on.
Oh, hey, chris likes passion.
Rob (28:51):
We've been talking about that.
Yeah, chris, who's chris?
Mike (28:56):
once I start talking about stuff like that, I just get
real passionate about it and Idon't, like I said with with pat
, he's the visionary and I'm theone that makes it happen.
Like I, I get the shit done sothat he can make them make the
dream come true, kind of thingdo you have to tell him no?
Yeah, yeah, like throw thingsat.
You're like dude, that's nothappening, yeah like even with
(29:19):
the first project we shot that,like I said, we shot it on film,
uh, and if we had shot it theway he wanted to, it would have
been like a 10 million dollarmovie, you know.
Uh, I think we, I think we shotit for about 17,000 total.
So I, mean the price of a, youknow, compact car.
(29:42):
That being said, uh, a lot oftimes we have to write drunk
edit sober.
Uh, a lot of times I still havethat editor vibe, you know,
going.
Where he'll pitch something tome, I'll be like, uh, how?
And where he'll pitch somethingto me, I'll be like how are we
going to?
make that happen on our budget.
Like I try to reel him in alittle bit, like I'm cool with
(30:03):
that, but I need you to thinkpractically for a second.
You know, sometimes it'sscaling back certain aspects of
a scene in order to maximize theimpact with the least amount of
money.
Rob (30:16):
That's one thing I just never knew about producing.
I was talking to my wife.
I was like, oh, we have aproducer on today.
You know what?
Chris (30:22):
they do?
Rob (30:22):
She's like?
No, it seems like a lot ofproject management, Well he's
not an executive producer, right, and that's the big title the
executive producer.
Mike (30:34):
I won't bash executive producers, but they're the money
people.
When you see the the executiveproducer I won't bash executive
producers, but they're the moneypeople.
When you see the name executiveproducer.
That person contributedfinancially to make this project
happen With a company like ours.
(30:54):
The producer my title is I'mthe guy on set that is making
sure that things run smoothly sothat the director can focus on
the creative side of things.
He's only focused on what's incamera.
I'm focused on everything else.
And there's other types ofproducers that you can bring on
(31:16):
board.
There's people called lineproducers, which is more
budgetary, and so you havesomebody that only focuses on
money in, money out, dailyexpenses, things like that.
You have people who are onlyover the below the line, so like
people who are the crew, uh,craft services, uh, you know
(31:39):
people who that person's likeyour production manager.
We're all producers in a way,uh, but it, I mean, it's
basically like a catch-all titlefor we got shit done go to me
for questions and answers yeah,exactly, yeah, exactly.
(32:03):
I'm on a small team.
I mean it it's Pat and I, andthen we have two other people
with us and he's also helpingwith the diegetic noise, like
the music or the sounds that aregoing to be audio within the
film, that are, you know, yourfoley work and your you know
(32:27):
music that might be playing on aradio in a scene.
He's helping us with that.
He's also doing the score, soanything that's ambient music in
the background he's you know,know he's going to be working on
that so you brought up uh sound.
Victor (32:42):
I just kind of want to get your opinion on like the use
of ai I knew this was going tocome up because I've just been
hearing a lot because, like Idon't know if you've been
following like the whole thingabout the brutalist yeah, that's
.
Mike (32:53):
That's an interesting thing.
I haven't read up completely onit, but from what I've
gathered- is they used AI toenhance the accents.
They were using a Hungarianaccent.
Chris (33:03):
Yeah.
Mike (33:03):
From what I read, is a really difficult accent for
non-native speaking people andthey used AI to enhance the
accent to make it more authenticand it's questionable, you know
, right?
I mean, you've got actors whoare.
They have dialect coachesexactly this reason exactly.
There are dialect coaches for areason.
Victor (33:22):
If the actors couldn't nail it, don't start shooting
yet maybe he wasn't the bestactor for the role, right I?
See a lot of people kind offreaking out about ai and yeah,
especially with writing andstuff yeah because I think and I
know a lot of people justaccuse at this point any new
(33:42):
netflix movie that comes out.
Ai must have written it becauseit's it's gonna be.
Yeah, it's almost algorithmic.
Yeah, it's all plug and play.
Mike (33:49):
It's like yeah, like, give me a script about, uh, a woman
who is a corporate ladderclimber in.
New York and she goes to asmall town in Maine and it spits
out like your Hallmark.
Victor (34:05):
Christmas movie.
And what's Glenn Powell doingright now?
Let's get him on the phone.
How did you know I?
Rob (34:11):
wanted to see the Rock and Gal Gadot.
Chris (34:13):
It's just amazing.
Mike (34:16):
Is Ryan Reynolds busy?
See the rock and gal gadot.
It's just amazing.
Is ryan reynolds busy?
Um, but, but no.
Ai is an interesting thing inthe filmmaking world because I
think a lot of people areworried about it.
Like taking jobs, obviouslyright, but I think the the the
greater aspect is is likeeliminating the humanity from
the art.
I think that that's somethingthat is more of a concern for me
(34:37):
.
Yeah, I see AI as a tool.
If you lean on it too heavily,it'll be obvious.
So like if you're throwingevery filter and every bypass
and equalizer, this soundsartificial.
It doesn't sound right.
Victor (34:52):
Why do I sound like Lorde?
Mike (34:53):
now.
Victor (34:54):
What's going on Exactly?
Mike (34:56):
Or you know, in film editing, you know, you get
people that love ooh, I couldthrow a transition here that's a
star white, you know and it'slike okay, Sounds like my
PowerPoints in high school.
Exactly.
If you use it as a tool and youuse it sparingly and
responsibly, I don't have aproblem with it.
(35:19):
I think that the problem iswhen people think that nobody
will know.
I'll use chat GPT to write mywhole script and it's like okay.
But when there's no humanity inthat script, those characters
sound like robots.
When it sounds like they'retrying to sound like humans,
(35:39):
like like yes, yeah, it's likewhat would a human say in this
situation, it's going to bepretty obvious.
I think that you can use itresponsibly to help you, um,
organize your thoughts.
I think you can use it, uh,responsibly to analyze what
you've already written and giveyou feedback.
You can tell ChatGPT read thisscene as if you are a movie
(36:05):
critic.
Let me know if there's any plotholes or weaknesses in the
character that I should focus on.
They'll see me arguing withChatGPT.
Victor (36:15):
I don't know what you're talking about.
Mike (36:16):
But I have used ChatGPT to create pitch ideas and business
ideas and give me 10fundraising ideas that we could
be using right now that wehaven't thought of yet.
One of the things that I dowhen I use an AI like that is I
never use the first result thatit spits out.
Chris (36:37):
Right.
Mike (36:38):
Continuously refine it so that each iteration gets closer
to the messaging that you'relooking for.
Get to the voice that you wouldpresent if you were writing
this.
It's just a tool to help youuse it.
The way I look at it is thosewho adapt to new technologies
will lead the next movement ofinnovation, but those who drag
(37:00):
their feet will be left behindor they'll begrudgingly need to
catch up in some way in orderjust to compete, and nobody
likes to be behind when theyhave to stay relevant.
I don't want to lose my jobbecause I didn't adapt.
Victor (37:17):
I mean there is a niche market for these things?
Mike (37:19):
Absolutely there is, because it's not, it'll never
fully go away, but I mean itwon't be the mainstream, david
Fincher and Christopher Nolanlove shooting on film, darren
Aronofsky loves shooting on film, but they will use digital
filmmaking, they will usecompositing and CG and they have
adapted in a way that thatworks with their uh voice, their
(37:43):
tone, their style.
There are some filmmakers I Ihaven't watched it yet francis
for coppola's megalopolis I havenot watched that either I just
watched a video on on youtubelast night of a group of guys
that they break down visualeffects and, oh my God, that
movie looks like a fever dream.
I really feel like somebodyshould have given him a lot less
(38:06):
leeway and said, no, let's reinthis in.
Victor (38:10):
But I feel like a lot of directors, they get to a
certain point where they have somany hits and there's such a
big name.
They just show up and peoplejust go here's some money, go do
what you got to do.
Coppola, basically funded pointwhere they have so many hits
and they're such a big name.
Mike (38:19):
They just show up and people just go here's some money
, Go do what you got to do.
Coppola basically funded thatmovie himself.
It was like $140 million and he, he funded it.
It's only made about 14 million, Uh.
Victor (38:26):
Kevin Costner just did this whole thing, which is the
whole story on its own of justlike, hey, I'm going to fund
this big Western movie.
It's going to be amazing.
It better do well.
And it bombed, it bombed yeah.
Mike (38:38):
Yeah, it was like a trilogy and obviously the other
two movies are probably notgoing to get made.
But you're right, I think thatat a certain point, like some of
these guys have the trackrecord that says we should trust
them with this, but we're notasking for 140 million dollars
for our project.
So, uh, if any, if anyinvestors want to, you know,
(38:59):
jump on board, uh, with us.
Victor (39:01):
You know they can, they can definitely do that I mean
you should be focused ongladiator 3, not speakeasy you
know, I did not say I knew him.
Mike (39:12):
I said he touched me on the shoulder once.
Rob (39:14):
How do you decide if something's done or good enough,
like?
At what point are you like?
Yes, that was great.
When the money runs out, okay.
Chris (39:24):
No when there's no more money in the bank.
Mike (39:28):
No, I mean, obviously when you're shooting you have, you
know, your final, last scene.
You know that you've goteverything else in the can and
after that there might bepickups which are like little
interstitial shots that helpconnect a scene or exteriors.
(39:48):
You might pick those up afteryou've shot all the cast stuff.
You might pick those up afteryou've shot all the cast stuff.
But for the most part whenyou're done with the cast you're
not going to ask them to comeback because they're going to
move on to another project.
So you need to make sure thatonce you get that last scene
with the cast, once you get itshot, you got to make sure that
you're done with it at thatpoint.
Victor (40:08):
Could you come back and do this in Spanish?
Mike (40:15):
Well, I mean, on our first project, the lead actor, he and
his wife, moved from here, fromthe cincinnati dayton area to
la during our post-production.
So we we were editing while hewas what they were moving and we
realized that we needed him tohave a few off-screen voiceover
lines that we needed to add, sowe taught him how to do it
through GarageBand on his laptop.
(40:38):
Just send us the raw file, man.
But you know we were really lowbudget at that point.
So, and you know, that film Ijoke about it it was our.
It was our.
What we looked at as our filmschool like a student project it
was intended to be was our.
Uh, what we looked at as our uhfilm school like a student
project.
It was intended to be like anhour and a half uh feature film.
(40:59):
But, uh, due to post-productionissues, uh, some other unhappy
accidents and the fact that oneof our crew members got arrested
by the FBI Uh, it happens.
Yeah, you know he was.
He was part of the uh paypalanonymous takedown like they uh
did a ddos attack on paypal backin like 2010 or 2012 oh yeah
(41:20):
yeah, yeah, we.
We instantly scrubbed him fromour website.
Rob (41:25):
We don't know who this guy is we've never heard of him.
Mike (41:28):
Uh but uh.
But the.
The film eventually ended upbecoming a like a 20minute short
, which we're still proud of,and it works really well.
But it's not exactly what wehad anticipated.
And when you're shooting onfilm, the film becomes a
commodity that you areconstantly aware of, because
every take means that you'velost that amount of film.
Chris (41:50):
You can't use that film anymore.
Mike (41:53):
Whereas when you shoot digitally you could go delete,
take two.
Yeah.
So every time you shoot on filmit's like there's that much
film we can't shoot on now.
Yeah.
So you don't want to take, youdon't want to do 10 takes,
especially if you're looking atthe budget that closely.
Victor (42:08):
We got a great deal.
Mike (42:09):
Back then, uh, on on, and we actually got two different
film stock companies biddinglower for us.
Like they were like in a littlebit of like a bidding war, we
could do this, we could do this.
And so we kind of did a littlebit of like positioning them
against each other and said,well, company A said that they
could give us two for the priceof one.
(42:30):
Can you do that?
Yeah, we could do two for theprice of one, all right.
Well, company B said they couldgive us two for the price of
one.
Can you do that?
They're like, yeah, we could dothat.
So, like we were trying to geta little bit and we did get a
great deal out of them.
This project, we have the budget.
(42:51):
All the actors are going to bepaid what they're worth, because
we feel like that's a reallyimportant piece of it.
We have a great cast and crewand you know, our four actors
that are playing are bandmembers.
Not only are all of our actorsthat are playing musicians, in
fact great musicians themselves.
(43:12):
Like all of the songs that Patand I are writing we're going to
record demos for and then we'regoing to have them record that
band, that fictional band, it'scalled the riot police record a
studio album that we can thenput out and distribute.
To have an album of a fictionalband be able to, to be, uh, you
(43:33):
know, put out there and thestreaming world in the, in the
mass market that's pretty cool
Victor (43:38):
they just did.
That was it when that showeddaisy jones came out.
Mike (43:42):
I heard that that's.
They're on my spot.
I haven't seen it yet, but Iheard it.
I heard it's really good.
I haven't seen it.
Victor (43:48):
yet it's really good.
It's like someone just wrote abunch of fan fiction about
fleetwood mac, which I mean hey,if you're gonna bunch of fan
fiction about Fleetwood Mac,fleetwood Mac which I mean hey,
if you're going to write a fanfiction about a band.
Mike (43:57):
there's a lot you could write about Fleetwood Mac.
Victor (43:59):
They were crazy like incestual, so there's like a lot
of not incestual likebrother-sister, but like
relationships within the band,not Kentucky, it's, yeah, sorry,
kentucky.
So where can people see some ofthe projects that you've
already done?
Mike (44:17):
Well, right now we're still building our YouTube
channel.
Pat has done a ton of videosmusic videos for SofaBurn
Records.
If you check outSofaBurnRecordscom, you can
check them out on YouTube or youcan find us at
SpeakeasyTheMoviecom.
You can check them out onYouTube or you can find us at
(44:40):
speakeasythemoviecom.
We'll have links to ourInstagram and our YouTube page
there.
There's also a link to ourGoFundMe campaign and if people
want to contact us aboutinvestment opportunities, they
can contact us at contact atechoeturnacom.
It's E-C-H-O-E-T-E-R-N-Acom.
Echo, eterna all one word.
Victor (45:00):
Like, how do you like?
Is it something that like goesthrough like an indie movie
circuit of just like specifictheaters, Like distribution,
Like what we're?
Mike (45:08):
looking for post-production.
So what we have in mind is todo a kind of a grassroots
distribution model where we'llwork with independent theaters
and college campus theaters andtake it on the road, do a Q&A,
show the film and do a Q&A,hopefully, with more than just
(45:30):
Pat and myself, because he won'ttalk and I'll do all the
talking.
Rob (45:35):
You can take Chris if you need him.
Mike (45:40):
But hopefully, hopefully, that that would drum up some
support.
But we'll also be entering intoseveral film festivals.
We've got a couple of peoplethat we're connected to who have
connections to some of the filmfestivals.
As far as the programmers, whodo with a film festival, the
programmers are the people whowatch all of the films that come
(46:01):
through, so they'll decide ifthis one goes on to be showcased
at the film festival.
But from there, distributorsand post-production distributor
companies like A24, they don'ttypically put a lot of money
into production.
They buy a film after it'salready been made and then they
slap their name on it and thenthey do a marketing campaign and
(46:23):
everybody's like oh, if A24believes in this, then it must
be pretty good, because they putout quality stuff.
There's also what's called thefilm market and it's basically
like every filmmaker's worstnightmare.
It's like you take your film,you go to the quote film market
and you basically tell peoplewhy they should buy your movie.
Victor (46:43):
I'm picturing like a Facebook marketplace of movies.
Rob (46:47):
I got movies here, guys.
Raw honey if you're interested.
Chris (46:50):
Raw honey.
Mike (46:52):
I've got some crafts that are up know up on the back.
We did some but um cool youknow.
And then there's always thestreaming platform.
Uh, way to go, and and youdon't make a big splash with
streaming content anymorebecause, because a lot of people
have access to putting their uhcontent on a streaming platform
(47:16):
.
Uh, it used to be that if youcould get like on amazon or
netflix or hulu, like that was abig deal, and it still is.
Uh, but it's pretty saturatedand so, you know, I don't know
if you've ever looked forsomething to watch and it's like
no, no, no no, oh yeah, Rightright.
(47:36):
Like you guys want to work onAI, like find something that
will like recommend stuff that Iactually want to watch yeah,
across all platforms.
Victor (47:47):
Well, Mike, this has been an amazing and eye-opening
conversation we had together.
We appreciate you coming on.
Rob (47:54):
Yeah, thank you.
Victor (47:55):
Just once again if someone wants to reach out to
you where can?
They find you and your work.
Mike (47:59):
You know most of our stuff is available through
speakeasythemoviecom.
You can find us on Instagram atspeakeasythemovie or at
Instagram on Echo Eterna.
I also have an independent pagefor myself.
It's Mike Writes Movies, and soyou can also find me there.
Mike Writes Movies on Instagram.
Rob (48:19):
All right, thank you.
Thanks a lot, mike, thank you.
Mike (48:21):
Guys, I appreciate it.
Thank you so much.
Victor (48:23):
Again, I want to say thank you to Michael Box for
joining us.
Check out his websitespeakeasiethemoviecom and
echoeternacom and drop him afollow at speakeasythemovie and
at MikeWritesMovies, and ifyou're interested in helping his
passion come alive, just reachout to him.
I'm sure he'd appreciate it.
Final thoughts.
Chris (48:45):
Chris, I have no idea in that field, that industry, so it
was good learning Again.
It was pretty cool.
It was actually really cool tohear on his side and his
industry and about what happensand other stuff that you have to
go through to make a movie.
Rob (49:01):
Rob Nah, you can tell Mike's a professional, just him
talking about his ideas of hischaracters.
You know how he writes, takingit through, explaining to us
like the difference in producingand basically managing these
movies, I mean from thebeginning to the end, and then
going on to talk aboutdistribution and what his plans
(49:23):
are for these things.
Um, you take for granted whatthat you know 90 minute film
takes.
You know everything iscalculated.
These guys are thinking aboutthis and it's uh, it's
refreshing to hear it's stuffthat gets lost in the film.
Yeah, yeah, that idea of you.
You created something you knowit's good.
This is your vision and eitherpeople are going to accept it or
(49:47):
not even give it a chance.
I mean we it's like kind oflike our episodes when we put
them out.
There's some I love.
Yeah, mostly mine.
Victor (49:56):
You know Listen, someone wrote Joker 2 and they thought
that was a great idea.
I'm kidding Joker 2.
I did not watch this movie, metoo.
So we want to thank you forlistening, but we need your help
.
If you enjoyed this episode, Iwant you to find that share
(50:17):
button and send this podcast toa friend, a loved one or your
gym crush, who will absolutelynot find that creepy at all.
And while you're clicking, hitsubscribe to stay updated on new
episodes.
Until next time, stay curious.
Mike (50:28):
Later Are you not entertained?
Are you not entertained?
Welcome everyone to the I'm Not Dumb, but Podcast.
I'm your host for today, victor, joined always by Rob Hello and
Chris Yo.
So, guys, give me a movie thatyou absolutely love.
Rob (00:14):
I would have to say Top Gun .
I had the shot.
There was no danger, so I tookit.
Chris (00:18):
For me it's James Bond 007 series, the whole series.
Yes, I love the whole series.
Yes, who's your favorite?
James Bond Tomorrow, never Die.
That's one of my favorite ones.
Pierce Brosnan, yeah.
Victor (00:30):
Is that the one with the Koreans?
Maybe, chris.
I think it was Chris.
Come on, You're just like wehad Koreans in there, maybe
that's why we made it, and we'renot the bad guys.
Rob (00:46):
wait, wait, are we, are we?
Chris (00:50):
I think it's something with the north koreans, isn't?
It wasn't?
Victor (00:52):
it no, uh, no, actually that was wrong.
I was wrong.
Sorry, tomorrow, never.
Dies is the one with michelleyo we knew there was something
there's gotta be something there, but you live to die another
day.
Have you ever thought about thepeople behind the scenes?
Like you know the names on thecredits, like what do they do
and how important are they?
Or like how did the movie evenstart?
(01:14):
I?
Chris (01:14):
always thought producers and directors are same person,
is it?
No, I don't think exclusivelyno, but than that I know there's
like a sound engineers right.
Other than that, I have no idea.
Victor (01:27):
There's a janitor.
Rob (01:30):
The only time I wait for the credits is if I know there's
something after the credits Iwant to see, like the guy
punching the bag at the end I'mlike, all right, there's a
sequel coming.
Victor (01:39):
The Marvel has warped your mind.
Rob (01:41):
Yes, I need something at the end and then I just wait to
see like, oh, who was waiternumber two?
I just wanted to know who thewaiter was.
The guy looked familiar.
Victor (01:50):
The guy looked familiar With us in the studio today is
screenwriter and producerMichael Box.
Over 15 years he has written orco-written over 10 screenplays,
short stories and TV pitches.
Mike co-founded Echo EternaProductions, operating out of
Dayton Ohio, and is here to helpus answer the question.
I'm not dumb, but who's MichaelBox?
(02:11):
Welcome to the I'm not dumb,but podcast, where we won't
claim to have the answers tolife's deepest questions, but
we'll give you an excitingjourney into the realms of
knowledge you never knew youneeded.
Might be mainstream, but notcommon knowledge.
From artificial intelligence toconspiracy theories, no topic
is too taboo for us to explore.
Let's get curious together,mike welcome.
(02:33):
Hey, thanks for having me, Iappreciate it.
Welcome to the podcast.
Yeah, how are you today?
Mike (02:39):
I'm really good.
Thanks for asking.
That's a great thing to ask.
Victor (02:42):
So you've been writing for some time now, like 15 years
.
Mike (02:46):
Well, I've always wanted to be a writer.
So when I was in high school, Iwas editor of the yearbook, the
newspaper, the literarymagazine.
I actually was going to go toschool on a journalism
scholarship.
Things took a different, longapproach to get back to that,
but, um, but here I am again.
Um so, uh, my writing partner,patrick, uh, he and I have been
(03:10):
writing together for about 15years, but we've known each
other about 25 years.
We started with music together.
Uh, I'm a bass player andguitarist, he's a drummer.
Uh, yeah, we played together ina couple of bands and so we've
been I mean, we've been workingcollaboratively for 20 plus
years.
Victor (03:30):
Oh, wow.
And so when did you get thatfirst feeling of like, hey, I
need to be like a storyteller?
Mike (03:36):
I come from a family of Scotch Irish people, and so
storytelling is genetic.
Victor (03:44):
So it was like storytelling or making Guinness
or fighting.
You know, fighting, yeah, proveme wrong.
Rob (03:50):
I dare you.
Mike (03:54):
We always joke that like we put the funk in family
function.
You know, everybody has to havea little bit of alcohol in
order to keep from justobliterating each other.
Victor (04:06):
It's your natural habitat, like you need to get
into it.
Mike (04:08):
Well, yeah, I mean the, the the, my generation does like
the, the my family, my parents'generation none of them are
drinkers, really, no, no.
So I think the kids just allrealized how awful that has to
be all the time.
But no, we, we we have a goodtime.
Our family's not as close as weused to be, but we grew up all
(04:29):
within like an hour of eachother at one point, yeah.
But as far as writing goes, Ialways wanted to be a writer.
I don't know if you ever sawthe movie Almost Famous.
It's a Cameron Crowe, uh, I wasa writer before.
I was a musician, uh, but I wasalways a music lover, and so I
(04:50):
had this like crazy idea that Iwanted to be a writer who
followed bands and wrote aboutthem and did the whole.
Rolling Stones article thing,and this was I.
I'm quite a bit older than youguys.
I graduated in 94.
Uh in 94, uh, so this wasbefore almost famous came out.
Rob (05:06):
So when that movie came out , I was like this is me, this is
my journey yeah, this is aboutme this is supposed to be me,
yeah, right.
Mike (05:13):
So when I got to college I kind of fell into the uh,
artsier, musically inclinedcrowd and I started playing
guitar and really fell in lovewith music, learned how to
appreciate music for more thanjust its pop culture influence,
but appreciate it more on amusic theory side, writing music
(05:34):
, that kind of thing.
But the writing was always apart of it, it was always there.
I wrote for the local newspapers, I've written for a few
magazines and it was just one ofthose things where it took
reconnecting with that seed ofwanting to be a writer, or for
me to get back into it, patrickhad a screenplay that he was
(05:58):
focused on producing himself andhe knew that I was a writer and
he was.
You know, he was like hey, doyou mind reading over this?
It was about 300 pages.
So if you know anything aboutscreenplays, it's usually a page
a minute, so he was writing anepic movie, so I helped him pare
(06:20):
that down and once once werealized that we worked really
well together in that area wewere able to pare it down to
about a 90 to 100 pagescreenplay and we decided to
film it and that was our firstproject together we shot.
It was called A Savior.
Come my Way.
It was a time traveling storyabout a man desperate to do
(06:43):
whatever he could to help hisfamily and um.
We shot it on 16 millimeterfilm, which was ambitious, uh,
for our first feature, um, andwe looked at that as our, our
student film.
That was our film school.
We learned a lot about runninga set, working with actors,
working with the crew Was that?
Victor (07:03):
your first experience in that kind of world?
Like was your partner alreadyin it?
Mike (07:07):
he was um a music video producer and director at the
time okay so he was familiarwith filmmaking on a short form
yeah uh, kind of kind of amedium, um, but uh, like I said,
we we learned how to, how towork really well together.
We learned what his strengthswere, what my strengths were.
I'm a writer-producer, he's adirector-cinematographer, and so
(07:32):
it makes for a really goodpartnership because I can keep
him focused on his tasks wherehe has the vision of where to go
creatively.
I tend to want to put the wordsin the actor's mouths.
I really like writing dialoguewhere he likes to really write
action lines, and so we workreally well together in that way
(07:55):
.
Rob (07:55):
Yeah, writing is one of those things where, like
sometimes I don't even knowwhere to start, because I've
started trying to script what Isay.
I feel like the episodes justcome out way better.
Mike (08:04):
They do like not not from what listening to you guys, not
from experience, but like, yeah,every podcast that I listen to,
yeah, you can tell when it's ascripted podcast or when it's
just an ad-libbed like let'sshoot the shit podcast.
The the written, scriptedpodcasts tend to go so much
smoother.
They stay on point, like youknow.
Yeah, I, that's what I feltlike it was so much smoother.
Rob (08:24):
They stay on point.
But you know, yeah, I that'swhat I felt, like it was so much
more structured, right, yeah,and and writing dialogue is it's
tough Cause I'll be like, oh,this is, this is exactly how I
would say it, and then I say,and I go, I don't talk like that
or no one talks yeah.
Mike (08:40):
Yeah, some of my favorite dialogue writers are guys like
Aaron Sorkin, who wrote SocialNetwork screenplay, yeah.
Or Quentin Tarantino, you knowthey write dialogue in a hyper
realistic way.
So it's yes, it's similar towhat or to how other people talk
.
You've heard people talk likethat, but not in that way.
(09:04):
They don't talk over each other, they don't stutter when they
speak, they don't pause andstart and then pause again.
It's quick, rhythmic writingand it's just one of those
things that it's a craft to beable to write that way, and it
takes a lot of time learningwhat your style is as a writer
(09:24):
to make it work.
Victor (09:26):
Now, when you're writing dialogue for, let's say,
different characters, do youfind it tricky to not bring your
own voice into both charactersor multiple characters?
Mike (09:36):
Every character that Pat and I have written something
about.
That character is a part of us,each of us.
That character is a part of us,each of us.
Um, you know our currentproject.
It's about musicians and, uh,they each represent us in
certain ways.
I tend to like to put a specificpersonality trait and assign
that to a character.
(09:58):
So one of the characters in ourproject, uh, his name's Lucas
and he's very anarchist, kind ofpunk, you know, fuck the man,
damn the man, damn the system.
That is definitely me.
When I was 17, 18, 19, 20 yearsold, I had the same kind of
(10:18):
anti-authority vibe.
And you know another one of ourcharacters, weston, is kind of
an idealist dreamer with dreamsof.
You know another one of ourcharacters, weston, is kind of
an idealist dreamer with dreamsof, you know, being an artist
that people respect andrecognize for his talent, and
that's Pat.
Pat has that same vibe abouthim.
(10:45):
Ascribe a certain characteristic, a certain personality trait of
yourself on that character.
It's really easy for you towrite in that way.
But it's also fun to write acharacter who's not anything
like you, the character you wishyou could speak like or act
like or talk like.
It's fun to write thosecharacters because they're a
challenge, that it doesn't comenaturally to me for me to write
(11:06):
somebody who's just a hugeasshole, because I'm not.
I mean, like, like, those whoknow me know that I'm not an
asshole, even though, like, mypersonality is typically a
little bit like just give mesome space.
You know, I'm an introvert bynature.
I have to turn on the extrovert, and so, uh, to write an
asshole is really difficultsometimes, because I'm like all
(11:29):
right, I don't like this guyright, yeah though I hear for
actors that it is more fun toplay the the bad guy.
It is asshole type it is youknow you, you see it like actors
who really just chew up thescenery.
Uh, when they get a meatycharacter who's just like really
well-rounded but like not verylikable, like like, uh, daniel
(11:53):
day lewis when he played danielplainview, and uh, there will be
blood you know, like nobodyreally likes that character that
character's a total asshole youknow, not a good person, no, a
terrible person, but he had agreat time playing that role.
You could tell, you know, maybetoo good probably, yeah, I mean,
he is one of the best actorswho's ever lived.
(12:14):
He has three academy awards.
Chris (12:15):
You know, that's true, I drink your milkshake do you ever
go back to your old dialogueand you'd be like what the fuck?
Mike (12:27):
oh yeah, oh yeah, like that is garbage, you know, or?
Or you, you learn somethingabout yourself in that time and
you go oh, I would never writethat right now yeah, that joke
doesn't land.
That joke is so sexist,chauvinist, bigoted.
(12:49):
Why would I have ever writtenthat that's gross?
And now you're like oh man,like I was so free, I was so
unencumbered.
Victor (13:02):
I mean, that's also a sign of just like times, the
times changing, so it's likeyou've written something for
that period of time.
Mike (13:09):
Absolutely.
Victor (13:10):
People's society is.
And then now you're here, yeah,and you're like I.
Now I have to shift.
Mike (13:14):
Oh yeah, my audience is kind of shift, Absolutely,
Absolutely, and you know it'sfun to write a shifting mindset
in mind.
The project that we'recurrently working on.
It's called Speakeasy I don'tknow if I've actually said the
name of it yet.
Victor (13:30):
No, not yet.
I was going to ask you whatyou're working on.
It's called.
Mike (13:33):
Speakeasy.
It's about a renegade band ofpunk musicians who are living in
a near future dystopian societywhere the government is
suppressing acts ofself-expression as political
dissent, and so they're-.
Chris (13:50):
So two years from now?
Yeah, exactly Like just thisweek, maybe.
Mike (13:57):
But they basically have to go underground to perform and
they're at risk of being raidedby the government enforcers and
it's a.
It's a really dark story but atthe same time it's full of,
like, fun moments becausethey're a punk band and they
have a good time and you knowthey make a lot of stupid
(14:20):
decisions, but you know, butthey're I mean they're in their
20s.
Everybody made stupid decisionsin their forties, no matter
what the political no no, not atall.
Victor (14:31):
So you've been writing and you telling a lot of stories
.
So like tell me, did youunderstand tenant?
Mike (14:37):
The fifth time I watched it.
Well see, here's the thing Idon't.
Well see, here's the thing Anyof you guys diagnosed ADHD.
Victor (14:47):
No, not diagnosed at least.
Okay, everybody'sself-diagnosed.
Chris (14:50):
Self-treating.
Rob (14:53):
I am self-treating.
Mike (14:54):
Okay, so I was diagnosed in my 40s, which, when I was
diagnosed, I was like holy shit,this would have been helpful to
know when I was in elementaryschool, right?
Because of that, I've noticedcertain things about the way
that I consume media, and one ofthose is I love listening to
(15:15):
music with headphones on.
Oh, okay, because I feel like Iget the mix that the producer
was trying to go for.
I get it so much better that theproducer was trying to go, for
I get it so much better If theywere doing playing with the
stereo sounds.
I feel like I feel that better.
So one of the ways that I watchmovies and a lot of people do
this now, I think, but I watcheverything with captions on- I
(15:37):
just started doing that actually.
And so with Tenet it's almostnecessary because the audio is
so awfully mixed.
I feel like a director on thatlevel, like Nolan's level.
He knew what he was doing.
Victor (15:54):
Yeah, he puts a lot of detail into everything that he
does, right.
Mike (15:58):
So I feel like he knew that it was being mixed in a
weird way.
Victor (16:02):
So maybe the dialogue's not as important as the what's
going on on screen, but I feellike I need to know what's going
on in the character's mind, andso I watch everything with the
dialogue or with the captions onwell, I also just wanted to
bring up the point of that, justlike do you feel that if
someone misses the point of themovie or what you're writing
(16:23):
like, is that something that youtake internally, or do you just
like nah, the viewers are justnot getting it I think that you
have to look at at it as art,and art is something that
everybody interprets differently, and so I can look at a
painting and go, oh, that isreally sick, I'm really into
this.
Mike (16:42):
And my wife can look at it go, yeah, that's boring, like I
don't.
I don't feel anything from that, and and I think that with
movies.
We.
It sounds pretentious to saymovies are art, but they are
they're.
They're a form of art it's aform of expression, absolutely,
and I think that, like I said,everybody interprets a movie
differently.
Uh, some people look at a movielike mother.
(17:04):
I don't know if you guys haveseen Darren Aronofsky's Mother
Harvey.
Rob (17:07):
R.
Mike (17:07):
Bardem was in it with Jennifer.
Lawrence Great movie,panic-inducing, heart attack,
anxiety-type movie, and it's anendurance test.
But a lot of people just didn'tfeel like it was a successful
story because it was so heavy onthe metaphor.
But I feel like that's part ofputting out art is you let
(17:31):
people experience it.
If they enjoyed it or theydidn't, I hope they felt
something.
If they didn't like it same wayI expected you to, I want to
know why, not because I need todefend it, but because I'm
(17:53):
seriously curious.
What did you feel?
Was it just ambivalence, or wasit more like oh, I'm confronted
by something about myself thatI don't like and so that makes
me not like this, which canhappen with a lot of art.
Rob (18:07):
When you start your first drafts?
Is it like pen to paper whenyou start off, or is it digital?
Mike (18:14):
I like to write pen to paper to start a draft, but I
gather a lot of notes in myphone, notes in my phone.
I'll have a scene idea or apiece of dialogue that I'm like.
I really need a character tosay this.
Then I'll write a scene aroundthat piece of dialogue.
(18:35):
But, that being said, when Isit down to write a first draft,
I really want that tactile feelof pen on paper.
It just feels good to me.
Victor (18:48):
That just might show your age.
Mike (18:51):
Yeah, definitely no, because I feel the same way.
Victor (18:53):
Sometimes I just like to write things down and scribble.
Mike (18:57):
Yeah, and I do scribble a lot and I doodle while I'm
thinking, and Pat, my writingpartner while I'm thinking, and,
um, pat, my my writing partner,he uh keeps little, uh moleskin
notebooks in his pocket all thetime and he writes down stuff
all the time.
He probably has about 60 or 70of them that he's filled up
during our time, during our timetogether.
Yeah, it's ridiculous.
Victor (19:18):
He's got.
He's firing in all cylindersall the time he is he does.
Mike (19:21):
I don't know when the guy sleeps.
Guy sleeps um, so he'll text meat like two in the morning and
he'll be like hey, I just hadthis idea.
Rob (19:28):
I'm like dude, you should be sleeping where's like the
weirdest place that you were,where an idea just popped into
your head and you're like, uh, Igotta do this my, my wife and
kids joke about the fact that Ihave my phone on a perch in the
shower all the time, because Iwill.
Mike (19:45):
I will get an idea while I'm in the shower and I'll be
like.
So.
One of the things that I have aproblem with is I'll get great
ideas that I'll be like.
This is such an incredible idea.
There's no way I'll forgetabout it.
I oh yeah, it's gone yeah, it'sgone instantly, I'll be laying
down in bed.
I'll be like, oh, it's so good,i'll'll be laying down in bed.
I'll be like, oh, it's so good,I'll definitely remember this
(20:07):
in the morning.
It's gone?
Chris (20:08):
Yep, it's gone yeah.
Rob (20:09):
I was talking to somebody who's also into writing and when
they're trying to develop thecharacter they would live a day
as this person, they would thinkas this person Do you find
yourself doing?
Chris (20:19):
that.
Rob (20:20):
Like walking around, like this guy would do this, or he
would walk into this coffee shoplike this Is he method writing?
Yeah, method writing.
Mike (20:28):
Not particularly for me.
I tend to be an introvert whenI'm out in public and so I spend
a lot of time at a coffee shopjust watching other people and
that's like I'll get ideas.
Like I wonder what that guy wasdoing before he walked in here.
I bet he looks like he was likeall disheveled and maybe like
(20:50):
flushed.
I bet he was in a fight withsomebody, like he was arguing
with somebody.
Chris (20:58):
And so I'll build a scene out of like something that
probably didn't happen.
Mike (21:03):
He's probably just red faced all the time.
But yeah, I just like to thinklike what was going on in that
person's life five minutes agoand then you know, try to build
that story in my head.
Victor (21:14):
So you and your partner, you guys have a production
company, right, yeah?
Mike (21:16):
Echo Eterna Productions.
We launched on 2-22-22.
It was mostly because we wereworking on this project and we
wanted to incorporate as an LLCand build the company so that we
can hopefully start workingwith some investors.
We've been pitching toinvestors for this project for
(21:38):
about six months.
It's a really difficult processto get people to buy into an
indie, an indie film yeah, howdoes?
Victor (21:46):
how does that whole process work like?
So do you go out like, do youlike make a little sample for
them?
Do you have to film the wholething and then pitch it like um?
Mike (21:55):
some people do a concept, a proof of concept film, so like
a short film, maybe a scenetells us a little bit about the
story.
In hindsight, that would havebeen really great for us.
But we didn't go that route.
We did a fundraiser, like alocal fundraiser, where we had
companies, some businesses inthe area.
(22:15):
They donated some items.
We did an auction where some ofthe props that I've been
building.
We auctioned those off andthey'll be used in the film and
then signed by the cast and thengiven to the people who bought
those for auction.
And then we got companies thatdonated gift bags and we raffled
(22:36):
those off.
We got companies that donatedgift bags and we raffled those
off.
We had a friend of ours owns awine bar in Dayton and she
hosted it for us and it wasreally successful.
It helped us.
It basically funded ourproduction costs for the year,
but you know that was in Marchof last year.
It didn't get us filming.
(22:56):
It basically helped us tolaunch.
It was you know that was inMarch of last year.
It didn't get us filming.
It basically helped us tolaunch.
It was, you know, seed money.
Some people go the route ofcrowdfunding, but you can only
ask your friends and family for50 bucks so many times before
they're like you're a nuisance.
Victor (23:12):
Yeah, grandma come on, get a real job.
Is this for next Christmas?
Get a real job, moocher?
Yeah, exactly.
Grandma come on, get a real job.
Mike (23:17):
That's all you got.
Is this for next Christmas?
Get a real job, Moocher.
Yeah, exactly.
Hey, Grandma, have you done?
Your will, yet Is there anyonewho can get an?
Victor (23:25):
advance on the will.
How old's this vase, by the way?
You don't need it, right.
Chris (23:30):
I need some money.
Mike (23:32):
I mean, the old school way was you just took out an extra
mortgage on your house or youmaxed out your credit cards, or
you, you know like Kevin Smith,when he financed clerks, he
maxed out credit cards, he solda huge comic book collection,
you know, and he still made thatmovie for like $25,000, which I
(23:55):
mean honestly Granted it was along time ago though.
Victor (23:58):
Yeah, inflation $20,000 got you.
Yeah, it was like 94, 93.
Yeah.
Mike (24:02):
You can't make.
I mean, you can make a moviefor that much now, but you don't
want to make a movie for thatmuch.
Not a full-length production.
And ours is ambitious we'rewriting all of the music
ourselves.
So the band is playing actualoriginal songs that we've
(24:23):
written.
We have some musician friendsin the Dayton music scene and
the society our society musicscene who are contributing songs
for like side charactermusicians who are playing in the
same venues as our maincharacters and we cut a vinyl
for that.
Everybody who bid on oreverybody who won an auction
(24:44):
item got a free vinyl to go withthat at our fundraiser.
Victor (24:50):
Just like a thank you for that.
Mike (24:52):
Yeah, it was, it was.
You know, that's a fun.
We like tying in stuff likethat.
I printed speakeasy guitarpicks and know like threw those,
those out.
They were everywhere.
People could just take thosehome with them.
Victor (25:04):
Uh, I made uh speakeasy, speakeasy flasks that I uh and
what like, of the portion thatyou have to fundraise, like how
much percentage wise like wouldgo to marketing versus the
actual production of the film.
Mike (25:17):
For a Hollywood production , almost like if they had a
hundred million dollar budget.
About 50 million will also beadded to that to go into
marketing and commercials andall that stuff.
So when you hear a film wassuccessful, you have to consider
how much they also put into themarketing campaign.
(25:39):
It could be a huge marketingcampaign.
I know Marvel puts a ton ofmoney into their marketing.
They do tie-ins with fast foodbusinesses and movie theaters,
but they also get huge taxcredits for filming in places
like Ohio, which has a greatfilm tax credit.
Oh, does it.
Yeah, that's why a lot of theMarvel stuff is filmed up in
(26:00):
Cleveland and then over inPittsburgh.
Victor (26:02):
Oh, I thought they were down in Georgia.
Mike (26:04):
Yeah, no, like a lot of the Cityscape stuff, DC stuff,
they also film in Cleveland andin Pittsburgh, just because I
think Pittsburgh has a reallygreat film scene as well.
We have two of our actors onSpeakeasy are from the
Pittsburgh area, one's from NewYork.
He's a musician in Brooklyn,One's from the Nashville area,
(26:25):
and the two of them are herefrom Ohio.
And we've got a couple otherpeople.
We've got one woman, youngwoman.
She's from Atlanta, georgia,and so we've got a lot of people
from all over the place thatare already excited, ready to go
.
We just need to get the funding.
Chris (26:40):
That's like I said that's the hard part.
Mike (26:42):
We've pitched to people we put together like a film or a
video pitch that's kind of agraphic novel style, but like a
motion graphic novel, andexplain the core concept of the
film and what we're looking for,where the money would go.
I think that people like theidea that we're doing all the
music ourselves.
We're trying to do things,we're doing all the location
(27:06):
scouting.
We're going to be shooting in alot of abandoned buildings.
The Dayton, cincinnati area hasa really great film community.
A lot of short film directorsare in this area.
Not a ton of features are beingmade here, but I think that's
changing.
We have a good amount of talent.
The actors and the musicians inthis area are phenomenal and
(27:27):
they just get overlooked on thebigger market.
So you know we're excited toget on set.
My two favorite things.
I'd rather be in the studiowriting or on set with the
actors.
Victor (27:42):
Yeah, you know you started mainly just writing Like
how did you find the transitionto doing more of the producing
side and putting all this otherstuff together?
Mike (27:52):
So my degree is in organizational leadership, like
nonprofits, and I've been on theboard of a arts council here in
the area.
I was the vice president of thearts council here for a couple
of years and I also worked withseveral youth organizations,
(28:14):
community youth organizations,youth organizations, community
youth organizations and so mybackground is really in
leadership in those frameworksof community support, building
initiatives with otherorganizations, putting on large
scale events, budgets like allthat kind of stuff.
So like it really kind oftranslates really well into the
(28:35):
producing side of things.
I don't mind talking, obviously, um, so, uh, so, especially
with something that I'mpassionate about, I think you
guys you guys probablyunderstand yeah I mean, chris
seems like a chatterbox.
Victor (28:49):
Oh, chris is on.
Oh, hey, chris likes passion.
Rob (28:51):
We've been talking about that.
Yeah, chris, who's chris?
Mike (28:56):
once I start talking about stuff like that, I just get
real passionate about it and Idon't, like I said with with pat
, he's the visionary and I'm theone that makes it happen.
Like I, I get the shit done sothat he can make them make the
dream come true, kind of thingdo you have to tell him no?
Yeah, yeah, like throw thingsat.
You're like dude, that's nothappening, yeah like even with
(29:19):
the first project we shot that,like I said, we shot it on film,
uh, and if we had shot it theway he wanted to, it would have
been like a 10 million dollarmovie, you know.
Uh, I think we, I think we shotit for about 17,000 total.
So I, mean the price of a, youknow, compact car.
(29:42):
That being said, uh, a lot oftimes we have to write drunk
edit sober.
Uh, a lot of times I still havethat editor vibe, you know,
going.
Where he'll pitch something tome, I'll be like, uh, how?
And where he'll pitch somethingto me, I'll be like how are we
going to?
make that happen on our budget.
Like I try to reel him in alittle bit, like I'm cool with
(30:03):
that, but I need you to thinkpractically for a second.
You know, sometimes it'sscaling back certain aspects of
a scene in order to maximize theimpact with the least amount of
money.
Rob (30:16):
That's one thing I just never knew about producing.
I was talking to my wife.
I was like, oh, we have aproducer on today.
You know what?
Chris (30:22):
they do?
Rob (30:22):
She's like?
No, it seems like a lot ofproject management, Well he's
not an executive producer, right, and that's the big title the
executive producer.
Mike (30:34):
I won't bash executive producers, but they're the money
people.
When you see the the executiveproducer I won't bash executive
producers, but they're the moneypeople.
When you see the name executiveproducer.
That person contributedfinancially to make this project
happen With a company like ours.
(30:54):
The producer my title is I'mthe guy on set that is making
sure that things run smoothly sothat the director can focus on
the creative side of things.
He's only focused on what's incamera.
I'm focused on everything else.
And there's other types ofproducers that you can bring on
(31:16):
board.
There's people called lineproducers, which is more
budgetary, and so you havesomebody that only focuses on
money in, money out, dailyexpenses, things like that.
You have people who are onlyover the below the line, so like
people who are the crew, uh,craft services, uh, you know
(31:39):
people who that person's likeyour production manager.
We're all producers in a way,uh, but it, I mean, it's
basically like a catch-all titlefor we got shit done go to me
for questions and answers yeah,exactly, yeah, exactly.
(32:03):
I'm on a small team.
I mean it it's Pat and I, andthen we have two other people
with us and he's also helpingwith the diegetic noise, like
the music or the sounds that aregoing to be audio within the
film, that are, you know, yourfoley work and your you know
(32:27):
music that might be playing on aradio in a scene.
He's helping us with that.
He's also doing the score, soanything that's ambient music in
the background he's you know,know he's going to be working on
that so you brought up uh sound.
Victor (32:42):
I just kind of want to get your opinion on like the use
of ai I knew this was going tocome up because I've just been
hearing a lot because, like Idon't know if you've been
following like the whole thingabout the brutalist yeah, that's
.
Mike (32:53):
That's an interesting thing.
I haven't read up completely onit, but from what I've
gathered- is they used AI toenhance the accents.
They were using a Hungarianaccent.
Chris (33:03):
Yeah.
Mike (33:03):
From what I read, is a really difficult accent for
non-native speaking people andthey used AI to enhance the
accent to make it more authenticand it's questionable, you know
, right?
I mean, you've got actors whoare.
They have dialect coachesexactly this reason exactly.
There are dialect coaches for areason.
Victor (33:22):
If the actors couldn't nail it, don't start shooting
yet maybe he wasn't the bestactor for the role, right I?
See a lot of people kind offreaking out about ai and yeah,
especially with writing andstuff yeah because I think and I
know a lot of people justaccuse at this point any new
(33:42):
netflix movie that comes out.
Ai must have written it becauseit's it's gonna be.
Yeah, it's almost algorithmic.
Yeah, it's all plug and play.
Mike (33:49):
It's like yeah, like, give me a script about, uh, a woman
who is a corporate ladderclimber in.
New York and she goes to asmall town in Maine and it spits
out like your Hallmark.
Victor (34:05):
Christmas movie.
And what's Glenn Powell doingright now?
Let's get him on the phone.
How did you know I?
Rob (34:11):
wanted to see the Rock and Gal Gadot.
Chris (34:13):
It's just amazing.
Mike (34:16):
Is Ryan Reynolds busy?
See the rock and gal gadot.
It's just amazing.
Is ryan reynolds busy?
Um, but, but no.
Ai is an interesting thing inthe filmmaking world because I
think a lot of people areworried about it.
Like taking jobs, obviouslyright, but I think the the the
greater aspect is is likeeliminating the humanity from
the art.
I think that that's somethingthat is more of a concern for me
(34:37):
.
Yeah, I see AI as a tool.
If you lean on it too heavily,it'll be obvious.
So like if you're throwingevery filter and every bypass
and equalizer, this soundsartificial.
It doesn't sound right.
Victor (34:52):
Why do I sound like Lorde?
Mike (34:53):
now.
Victor (34:54):
What's going on Exactly?
Mike (34:56):
Or you know, in film editing, you know, you get
people that love ooh, I couldthrow a transition here that's a
star white, you know and it'slike okay, Sounds like my
PowerPoints in high school.
Exactly.
If you use it as a tool and youuse it sparingly and
responsibly, I don't have aproblem with it.
(35:19):
I think that the problem iswhen people think that nobody
will know.
I'll use chat GPT to write mywhole script and it's like okay.
But when there's no humanity inthat script, those characters
sound like robots.
When it sounds like they'retrying to sound like humans,
(35:39):
like like yes, yeah, it's likewhat would a human say in this
situation, it's going to bepretty obvious.
I think that you can use itresponsibly to help you, um,
organize your thoughts.
I think you can use it, uh,responsibly to analyze what
you've already written and giveyou feedback.
You can tell ChatGPT read thisscene as if you are a movie
(36:05):
critic.
Let me know if there's any plotholes or weaknesses in the
character that I should focus on.
They'll see me arguing withChatGPT.
Victor (36:15):
I don't know what you're talking about.
Mike (36:16):
But I have used ChatGPT to create pitch ideas and business
ideas and give me 10fundraising ideas that we could
be using right now that wehaven't thought of yet.
One of the things that I dowhen I use an AI like that is I
never use the first result thatit spits out.
Chris (36:37):
Right.
Mike (36:38):
Continuously refine it so that each iteration gets closer
to the messaging that you'relooking for.
Get to the voice that you wouldpresent if you were writing
this.
It's just a tool to help youuse it.
The way I look at it is thosewho adapt to new technologies
will lead the next movement ofinnovation, but those who drag
(37:00):
their feet will be left behindor they'll begrudgingly need to
catch up in some way in orderjust to compete, and nobody
likes to be behind when theyhave to stay relevant.
I don't want to lose my jobbecause I didn't adapt.
Victor (37:17):
I mean there is a niche market for these things?
Mike (37:19):
Absolutely there is, because it's not, it'll never
fully go away, but I mean itwon't be the mainstream, david
Fincher and Christopher Nolanlove shooting on film, darren
Aronofsky loves shooting on film, but they will use digital
filmmaking, they will usecompositing and CG and they have
adapted in a way that thatworks with their uh voice, their
(37:43):
tone, their style.
There are some filmmakers I Ihaven't watched it yet francis
for coppola's megalopolis I havenot watched that either I just
watched a video on on youtubelast night of a group of guys
that they break down visualeffects and, oh my God, that
movie looks like a fever dream.
I really feel like somebodyshould have given him a lot less
(38:06):
leeway and said, no, let's reinthis in.
Victor (38:10):
But I feel like a lot of directors, they get to a
certain point where they have somany hits and there's such a
big name.
They just show up and peoplejust go here's some money, go do
what you got to do.
Coppola, basically funded pointwhere they have so many hits
and they're such a big name.
Mike (38:19):
They just show up and people just go here's some money
, Go do what you got to do.
Coppola basically funded thatmovie himself.
It was like $140 million and he, he funded it.
It's only made about 14 million, Uh.
Victor (38:26):
Kevin Costner just did this whole thing, which is the
whole story on its own of justlike, hey, I'm going to fund
this big Western movie.
It's going to be amazing.
It better do well.
And it bombed, it bombed yeah.
Mike (38:38):
Yeah, it was like a trilogy and obviously the other
two movies are probably notgoing to get made.
But you're right, I think thatat a certain point, like some of
these guys have the trackrecord that says we should trust
them with this, but we're notasking for 140 million dollars
for our project.
So, uh, if any, if anyinvestors want to, you know,
(38:59):
jump on board, uh, with us.
Victor (39:01):
You know they can, they can definitely do that I mean
you should be focused ongladiator 3, not speakeasy you
know, I did not say I knew him.
Mike (39:12):
I said he touched me on the shoulder once.
Rob (39:14):
How do you decide if something's done or good enough,
like?
At what point are you like?
Yes, that was great.
When the money runs out, okay.
Chris (39:24):
No when there's no more money in the bank.
Mike (39:28):
No, I mean, obviously when you're shooting you have, you
know, your final, last scene.
You know that you've goteverything else in the can and
after that there might bepickups which are like little
interstitial shots that helpconnect a scene or exteriors.
(39:48):
You might pick those up afteryou've shot all the cast stuff.
You might pick those up afteryou've shot all the cast stuff.
But for the most part whenyou're done with the cast you're
not going to ask them to comeback because they're going to
move on to another project.
So you need to make sure thatonce you get that last scene
with the cast, once you get itshot, you got to make sure that
you're done with it at thatpoint.
Victor (40:08):
Could you come back and do this in Spanish?
Mike (40:15):
Well, I mean, on our first project, the lead actor, he and
his wife, moved from here, fromthe cincinnati dayton area to
la during our post-production.
So we we were editing while hewas what they were moving and we
realized that we needed him tohave a few off-screen voiceover
lines that we needed to add, sowe taught him how to do it
through GarageBand on his laptop.
(40:38):
Just send us the raw file, man.
But you know we were really lowbudget at that point.
So, and you know, that film Ijoke about it it was our.
It was our.
What we looked at as our filmschool like a student project it
was intended to be was our.
Uh, what we looked at as our uhfilm school like a student
project.
It was intended to be like anhour and a half uh feature film.
(40:59):
But, uh, due to post-productionissues, uh, some other unhappy
accidents and the fact that oneof our crew members got arrested
by the FBI Uh, it happens.
Yeah, you know he was.
He was part of the uh paypalanonymous takedown like they uh
did a ddos attack on paypal backin like 2010 or 2012 oh yeah
(41:20):
yeah, yeah, we.
We instantly scrubbed him fromour website.
Rob (41:25):
We don't know who this guy is we've never heard of him.
Mike (41:28):
Uh but uh.
But the.
The film eventually ended upbecoming a like a 20minute short
, which we're still proud of,and it works really well.
But it's not exactly what wehad anticipated.
And when you're shooting onfilm, the film becomes a
commodity that you areconstantly aware of, because
every take means that you'velost that amount of film.
Chris (41:50):
You can't use that film anymore.
Mike (41:53):
Whereas when you shoot digitally you could go delete,
take two.
Yeah.
So every time you shoot on filmit's like there's that much
film we can't shoot on now.
Yeah.
So you don't want to take, youdon't want to do 10 takes,
especially if you're looking atthe budget that closely.
Victor (42:08):
We got a great deal.
Mike (42:09):
Back then, uh, on on, and we actually got two different
film stock companies biddinglower for us.
Like they were like in a littlebit of like a bidding war, we
could do this, we could do this.
And so we kind of did a littlebit of like positioning them
against each other and said,well, company A said that they
could give us two for the priceof one.
(42:30):
Can you do that?
Yeah, we could do two for theprice of one, all right.
Well, company B said they couldgive us two for the price of
one.
Can you do that?
They're like, yeah, we could dothat.
So, like we were trying to geta little bit and we did get a
great deal out of them.
This project, we have the budget.
(42:51):
All the actors are going to bepaid what they're worth, because
we feel like that's a reallyimportant piece of it.
We have a great cast and crewand you know, our four actors
that are playing are bandmembers.
Not only are all of our actorsthat are playing musicians, in
fact great musicians themselves.
(43:12):
Like all of the songs that Patand I are writing we're going to
record demos for and then we'regoing to have them record that
band, that fictional band, it'scalled the riot police record a
studio album that we can thenput out and distribute.
To have an album of a fictionalband be able to, to be, uh, you
(43:33):
know, put out there and thestreaming world in the, in the
mass market that's pretty cool
Victor (43:38):
they just did.
That was it when that showeddaisy jones came out.
Mike (43:42):
I heard that that's.
They're on my spot.
I haven't seen it yet, but Iheard it.
I heard it's really good.
I haven't seen it.
Victor (43:48):
yet it's really good.
It's like someone just wrote abunch of fan fiction about
fleetwood mac, which I mean hey,if you're gonna bunch of fan
fiction about Fleetwood Mac,fleetwood Mac which I mean hey,
if you're going to write a fanfiction about a band.
Mike (43:57):
there's a lot you could write about Fleetwood Mac.
Victor (43:59):
They were crazy like incestual, so there's like a lot
of not incestual likebrother-sister, but like
relationships within the band,not Kentucky, it's, yeah, sorry,
kentucky.
So where can people see some ofthe projects that you've
already done?
Mike (44:17):
Well, right now we're still building our YouTube
channel.
Pat has done a ton of videosmusic videos for SofaBurn
Records.
If you check outSofaBurnRecordscom, you can
check them out on YouTube or youcan find us at
SpeakeasyTheMoviecom.
You can check them out onYouTube or you can find us at
(44:40):
speakeasythemoviecom.
We'll have links to ourInstagram and our YouTube page
there.
There's also a link to ourGoFundMe campaign and if people
want to contact us aboutinvestment opportunities, they
can contact us at contact atechoeturnacom.
It's E-C-H-O-E-T-E-R-N-Acom.
Echo, eterna all one word.
Victor (45:00):
Like, how do you like?
Is it something that like goesthrough like an indie movie
circuit of just like specifictheaters, Like distribution,
Like what we're?
Mike (45:08):
looking for post-production.
So what we have in mind is todo a kind of a grassroots
distribution model where we'llwork with independent theaters
and college campus theaters andtake it on the road, do a Q&A,
show the film and do a Q&A,hopefully, with more than just
(45:30):
Pat and myself, because he won'ttalk and I'll do all the
talking.
Rob (45:35):
You can take Chris if you need him.
Mike (45:40):
But hopefully, hopefully, that that would drum up some
support.
But we'll also be entering intoseveral film festivals.
We've got a couple of peoplethat we're connected to who have
connections to some of the filmfestivals.
As far as the programmers, whodo with a film festival, the
programmers are the people whowatch all of the films that come
(46:01):
through, so they'll decide ifthis one goes on to be showcased
at the film festival.
But from there, distributorsand post-production distributor
companies like A24, they don'ttypically put a lot of money
into production.
They buy a film after it'salready been made and then they
slap their name on it and thenthey do a marketing campaign and
(46:23):
everybody's like oh, if A24believes in this, then it must
be pretty good, because they putout quality stuff.
There's also what's called thefilm market and it's basically
like every filmmaker's worstnightmare.
It's like you take your film,you go to the quote film market
and you basically tell peoplewhy they should buy your movie.
Victor (46:43):
I'm picturing like a Facebook marketplace of movies.
Rob (46:47):
I got movies here, guys.
Raw honey if you're interested.
Chris (46:50):
Raw honey.
Mike (46:52):
I've got some crafts that are up know up on the back.
We did some but um cool youknow.
And then there's always thestreaming platform.
Uh, way to go, and and youdon't make a big splash with
streaming content anymorebecause, because a lot of people
have access to putting their uhcontent on a streaming platform
(47:16):
.
Uh, it used to be that if youcould get like on amazon or
netflix or hulu, like that was abig deal, and it still is.
Uh, but it's pretty saturatedand so, you know, I don't know
if you've ever looked forsomething to watch and it's like
no, no, no no, oh yeah, Rightright.
(47:36):
Like you guys want to work onAI, like find something that
will like recommend stuff that Iactually want to watch yeah,
across all platforms.
Victor (47:47):
Well, Mike, this has been an amazing and eye-opening
conversation we had together.
We appreciate you coming on.
Rob (47:54):
Yeah, thank you.
Victor (47:55):
Just once again if someone wants to reach out to
you where can?
They find you and your work.
Mike (47:59):
You know most of our stuff is available through
speakeasythemoviecom.
You can find us on Instagram atspeakeasythemovie or at
Instagram on Echo Eterna.
I also have an independent pagefor myself.
It's Mike Writes Movies, and soyou can also find me there.
Mike Writes Movies on Instagram.
Rob (48:19):
All right, thank you.
Thanks a lot, mike, thank you.
Mike (48:21):
Guys, I appreciate it.
Thank you so much.
Victor (48:23):
Again, I want to say thank you to Michael Box for
joining us.
Check out his websitespeakeasiethemoviecom and
echoeternacom and drop him afollow at speakeasythemovie and
at MikeWritesMovies, and ifyou're interested in helping his
passion come alive, just reachout to him.
I'm sure he'd appreciate it.
Final thoughts.
Chris (48:45):
Chris, I have no idea in that field, that industry, so it
was good learning Again.
It was pretty cool.
It was actually really cool tohear on his side and his
industry and about what happensand other stuff that you have to
go through to make a movie.
Rob (49:01):
Rob Nah, you can tell Mike's a professional, just him
talking about his ideas of hischaracters.
You know how he writes, takingit through, explaining to us
like the difference in producingand basically managing these
movies, I mean from thebeginning to the end, and then
going on to talk aboutdistribution and what his plans
(49:23):
are for these things.
Um, you take for granted whatthat you know 90 minute film
takes.
You know everything iscalculated.
These guys are thinking aboutthis and it's uh, it's
refreshing to hear it's stuffthat gets lost in the film.
Yeah, yeah, that idea of you.
You created something you knowit's good.
This is your vision and eitherpeople are going to accept it or
(49:47):
not even give it a chance.
I mean we it's like kind oflike our episodes when we put
them out.
There's some I love.
Yeah, mostly mine.
Victor (49:56):
You know Listen, someone wrote Joker 2 and they thought
that was a great idea.
I'm kidding Joker 2.
I did not watch this movie, metoo.
So we want to thank you forlistening, but we need your help
.
If you enjoyed this episode, Iwant you to find that share
(50:17):
button and send this podcast toa friend, a loved one or your
gym crush, who will absolutelynot find that creepy at all.
And while you're clicking, hitsubscribe to stay updated on new
episodes.
Until next time, stay curious.
Mike (50:28):
Later Are you not entertained?
Are you not entertained?
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