April 22, 2024 • 43 mins
Unlock the secrets to sales mastery and personal triumph with Jane Hernon, whose meteoric rise from Dublin's humble pharmacies to the world's luxury retail destinations is nothing short of inspiring. This episode is a treasure trove of wisdom for anyone looking to excel in sales, manage dynamic teams, or simply navigate the complexities of career growth. Jane's candid storytelling takes us through the key strategies that catapulted her success, emphasizing the power of mentorship and the importance of a customer-first approach that transcends both bustling storefronts and high-stake B2B deals.
Feel the pulse of a sales floor and the heartbeat of genuine customer relationships as Jane divulges her techniques for connecting with clients and turning transactions into lasting partnerships. Discover how follow-ups, service quality, and trust are the true currency of sales, and learn why passion for helping others is the ultimate selling point. Whether you're a sales novice or a seasoned professional, Jane's insights on link selling and creating an unwavering bond with customers will reshape the way you think about your role and the impact you can make.
Join us on an odyssey that is as much about personal growth as it is about professional development. Jane's journey is a testament to the transformative power of embracing change, the significance of a nurturing team environment, and the adaptability required of leaders today. And with her upcoming book and sales-focused app on the horizon, Jane demonstrates that the quest for knowledge never ends, offering a glimpse into the future of sales training and mentorship. This episode isn't just about sales; it's about the relentless pursuit of excellence and the indomitable spirit that drives it.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Walt Bayliss (00:02):
Ladies and gentlemen, thank you so much for
joining me.
This is Walt with the SalesStartups and Side Hustles
podcast.
We have an incredible specialguest on our show today, someone
who grew up in Dublin, ireland,has then gone on to live on
multiple continents across theplanet and has been in sales and
leading sales teams for morethan 30 years.
She has created incredibleresults working with companies
(00:24):
like Harrods of London, workingwith David Jones here in
Australia, and has now gone onto publish her first book, which
is called Finding your TrueNorth, or Finding your North
Star, published last year andavailable on Amazon.
She is an incredible salesmentor and she is now the
managing director of her ownsales training organization,
(00:45):
which is Coaching with Jane Ithink I've got that right.
Jane Hernon is her name and sheis our sales superstar joining
us this morning.
Jane, thank you so much forjumping on the show Now.
I'm looking at your history.
I'm seeing your incrediblerange of results that you've
been able to achieve.
You jumped straight out ofcollege straight out of school
and into the retail salesenvironment.
Jane Hernon (01:09):
Welcome to the show and tell us how did this all
get started for you?
So I would say that first ofall, I'm delighted to be on your
show, Walt, Thanks very muchfor having me and greetings to
everyone from Dublin.
So I'd say that I possiblywasn't the most academic person.
I was always a doer rather thanburying my head in books.
So from that end, I was neverdestined to go and do a degree
(01:30):
in college.
I just wanted to hit the groundrunning, try and find something
that I loved and purely byaccident, I actually got into
sales, and that was pharmacysales, just locally.
I was only 17 at the time.
So I suppose from that I becamevery good very quickly, and I
suppose what is missing in alittle bit today that we find
(01:53):
there's not an awful lot ofsales training, and in those
days we were trained how to sell.
So we would have trainingsessions first thing in the
morning and Saturday morningswe'd come in early.
John Cleese actually was one ofour, not in person, he had made
(02:14):
a series and they're stillavailable if you go hunting for
them, but they were incrediblehow to deal with the tricky
customer, just how to closesales, how to be respectful.
So there was actual propertraining, which I find nowadays
is really lacking.
So a lot of people come intothese roles they might love
furniture, they might love thepharmacy end, they might love
(02:35):
the new products, but they don'treally know how to sell and
they don't really know how toclose that sale, and
particularly in B2B.
That is vital because it's allabout the building relationships
.
The rapport finding that painthat somebody is finding it
difficult to bridge a gap andthere's a lot of competition out
(02:58):
there.
So you need to really know yourcustomer very well and help
them through that process,Absolutely.
So, if I backpedal a little bit,I didn't spend too long in
Dublin.
I'd say I was 19, 20 when Ileft and I went to London.
So I did beauty therapy courseand I did the international, the
(03:20):
Sodesco.
So anyone in that end wouldknow that particular
qualification which gives you adiploma really to work anywhere
in the world.
So you have sales, you have allyour beauty, you have your
cosmetics, everything, all thattraining background.
So I did that in Baker Streetin London and then I stayed
(03:42):
there for a few.
I'd say I stayed for about fiveyears in London working in
Harrods, working in Selfridges.
So there's nothing like beingon a big team, but I was the
junior on a big team.
And it's fantastic and it'sfascinating, and you can imagine
, in such a huge store withmassive footfall, how busy we
(04:04):
were all the time, howexhausting it was.
So I suppose the one thing thatI did learn from very early on,
first of all, it's theimportance of getting on with
your team, the importance ofbeing equal, and we had a super
manager of I think there wasabout 15 of us on that team, so
(04:27):
that's a very big sales team ina very small area, and she was
just incredible.
She was Australian, actually,she was a super girl, but she
you would not have known had youcome to the counter to buy
products.
You would not have known whowas the real boss.
You would not know.
(04:47):
She just treated us all reallyequally and, from a perspective,
there wasn't that boss and teamelement and that is the big
secret.
It's like being the servantboss.
Walt Bayliss (05:01):
that is the way to do it is that something that
you've carried forward like, Imean you?
Absolutely the manager in thatrole, and was she your mentor?
Jane Hernon (05:09):
they're moving she was my mentor, so I had I was
very lucky from very early on.
Now I had some difficult peoplelater on, which is also good to
learn from, because you have togrow a little bit of a thick
skin and in a lot of ways withsales, you are acting.
You really have to think onyour feet.
You're improvising constantly.
So if you have a bad day athome, if things aren't great,
(05:32):
you have to bring in your goodface to work, because you're
dealing with.
You know people are coming toyou for help, for solutions.
That's what sales is all about.
So, being on a big team where wewere all very equal, she was
very fair.
Everyone got listened to andthe real secret, too, is she got
to know us all personally, soshe would take us for a coffee.
(05:53):
So basically, she was holdingyour hand, getting you through
situations, anything, anyproblems that we were having,
because you'd always find, look,one person may not be pulling
their weight.
You happen to be going to thestock room situations anything,
any problems that we were having, because you'd always find,
look, one person may not bepulling their weight.
You happen to be going to thestockroom and doing the
deliveries when they come in andtrying to sort customers out
(06:15):
and a lot of people on teamslike that.
You'll find that half them pulltheir weight far more than
others will, and others arecoasting through.
Exactly, and others will just do.
Walt Bayliss (06:27):
Sorry, I didn't mean to cut you off.
It must have been an amazingfeeling to have the hallowed
halls of Harrods around you, andSelfridges as well, and
generating that incredibleteamwork within that amazing
environment.
I guess, being only a fan, ashopper, a retail person,
customer coming into Harrods, Isee the glamour, I see the
(06:49):
amazing energy that's withinthat environment, but there must
have been just a massive amountof work to do every single day
for so many people comingthrough those doors.
Jane Hernon (06:59):
There was, and we would have to have little
meetings every morning, anddifferent jobs were allocated to
different people, so we wouldall be on a rota, for want of a
better word.
It's like running a household.
You have to get the chores done,so therefore, we all need to
share them out.
So, yeah, an awful lot to do,because we were also a skincare
(07:19):
company, so we were alsooffering facials in the back.
So you're in quite a confinedspace and the footfall through
these doors is just enormous.
So you're always on, you don'thave time to kind of slump and
say Put your feet up and have acup of tea and never get that
chance.
No, no, no, no.
So there was not that chance atall.
(07:40):
So, yes, fantastic experience.
Walt Bayliss (07:45):
Now, you mentioned , just before we clicked on the
record button, that you areintensely competitive, which I
absolutely love.
Was there a daily set that youhad to reach?
Was there a target for the team?
Was it something that you wereconstantly aware of and
constantly pushing for?
Jane Hernon (07:58):
Yes, so we would analyze our achievements from
the week before.
It depended on the time of theyear, but we would be on
promotion maybe three to fourtimes in that year.
So that would be gift to apurchase.
So our budgets would beenormous for that.
You can imagine in a store likeHarrods where your footfall
would be 200,000 a day, perhapsthrough the store.
(08:20):
So you have to get out thereand attract.
Attract that.
So obviously you'd havemerchandising in everything else
and there'll be somebody incharge of that.
Um, but you would also you needto have written to your own
customers.
We'd all have our own specificcustomers as well.
That would come to us.
(08:41):
So the other amazing thing thatI found too in basic training is
that when someone comes to youand they're looking for whatever
product it is so it doesn'tmatter whether you're selling
cutlery, face cream, softfurnishings always give them
what they're looking for.
So if the lady wants her eyecream or a lipstick, always put
(09:04):
that in front of them first andthen do your link selling when a
lot of people go.
They're looking, they'reanalyzing the lady, maybe in
front of them or thinking well,actually we've got this new
product and I want to push that,because that's where I'm going
to get my bonus from.
Always give the customer whatthey want.
What do they ask for first ofall?
Because otherwise they're neverreally going to be satisfied
(09:25):
long term.
What do they ask for first ofall?
Because otherwise they're neverreally going to be satisfied
long-term.
They came in looking for acertain thing.
Give it to them and then linksell.
Walt Bayliss (09:31):
And start from there.
Jane Hernon (09:32):
Link sell around that.
Walt Bayliss (09:34):
In my sales career I've always been told that the
customer clearly the customer isalways right, but sometimes
they don't know what they need.
And especially as you're movingfrom that retail environment
into B2B and where your focus isnow, I know with your coaching
business, you're talking verymuch to companies about finding
their sales feed and trainingthe sales teams and creating all
(09:57):
of that.
Do you ever find the case whereyou don't really know or
understand what the customer islooking for?
They come to you with a problembut they don't know the
solution.
You have to design that withthem.
Jane Hernon (10:08):
Absolutely.
I'd say eight out of 10customers are that customer, and
so, no matter what it is,whether it's components for an
engineering company, as I wassaying, or it's cosmetics or
soft furnishing or whatever aline you're in pharmacy end, At
the end of the day the customerwill come to you for one
(10:31):
specific reason They've eitherheard that you're very good,
that your product's very good,or that you look after the
customer well, or else they'rejust testing to see, Because in
the end of the day now peoplecan just really look things up
and go anywhere.
So when you have that attentionin front of you and if someone
is actually coming to you, thatis gold, so you don't have to go
(10:54):
out looking for that business.
They have come to you.
So, if so, it's up to you tobuild the rapport and you make
it all about them, not aboutwhat you are going to do for
them.
You you need to delve deep andjust get to know that customer,
and sometimes that can take acouple of touches.
It's not, that's not going tohappen on the first go.
So you've made the connection.
(11:15):
Then you do another follow-upand you've maybe gone away and
done some research for them withthe company that is supplying
you, so that you can go back andgive them even more information
and see if that's going to helpthem solve their issue.
So it's all about building therelationship, getting to know
the customer really well,getting to know their needs and
(11:36):
seeing how you're going to beable to slot in there and long
term it's not just for now, soin the future will you be able
to link something else that'sgoing to add on to that.
And so you're building therapport, building the
relationship, and it's kind oflike a friendship.
So, it doesn't become about theproduct really until later.
Walt Bayliss (11:56):
Yeah right, Until you understand them.
Jane Hernon (11:58):
Yes, you could have had about three touches or
three situations where you'vehad contact with them before you
even get down to thatabsolutely so make it all about
them.
It's not about you and howyou're going to.
It's about them.
Find out what they need, whattheir pain point is, what
solutions they need.
Sometimes, as I say, in somecases you've got to go away and
(12:22):
try and find solutions for themand come back then.
So it's about the service andmaking them feel really good
that you're really looking afterthem.
Walt Bayliss (12:33):
Amazing, amazing.
Is it something that'steachable?
Do you think, jane?
Do you think I meet a lot ofbusiness owners who are
incredible at what they'vecreated.
They've created somethingspecial in the marketplace, and
then they'll turn around to meand they'll say something like
oh, but I just, I'm just notgood at sales.
Is it something that anybodycan learn?
Do you feel?
Jane Hernon (12:51):
Yes.
Walt Bayliss (12:53):
I think it's very teachable.
Jane Hernon (12:55):
I think some people are just born, but born
salespeople.
But I think you've got to havea passion for helping people,
because I think if you make itabout the money or the product,
I think you're missing the point.
I think look after yourcustomer and the money will look
after itself.
So there's a lot of companiesout there that have great
(13:18):
products and, yes, your productis great and it's unique and
it's fantastic and it's marketedbeautifully and packaged
beautifully but they can reallyget that same product that's
going to do the same thing forthem.
You've got to sell thosebenefits and it's really selling
you and a lot of people missthat point.
It's you.
So I have this little joke withsome of the girls that I train
(13:40):
and I say that I always need tohave a good pair of glasses on
because this is my truth.
I want you to connect with meand make eye contact with me.
So it's the eye contact and therelationship and how you are
with people physically.
A lot of it is body language aswell.
(14:01):
So it's not just about whatyou're showing them or how
you're showing them.
It's about you selling yourselfto them.
It's buying their trust.
Walt Bayliss (14:13):
Amazing.
Jane Hernon (14:13):
So for me the eyes are very important, that I have
my eyes on my little bit of eyemakeup or whatever.
And the glasses are greatbecause I have to wear them
anyway.
Walt Bayliss (14:22):
Now it's your lens you get to.
You get to switch on and turnthat into.
That's your on mode.
Jane Hernon (14:28):
It's my on mode, but it also can become a little
bit of a barrier breakdown,because you're chatting about
the glasses and you're gettingto know people and you know, so
it's all part of the chit chat.
Walt Bayliss (14:38):
I did notice when we came on and for those of you
who are watching this on thevideo, replay, Jane's glasses
there are amazing.
For those who are on audio,where are you missing out?
Come on over to the YouTubechannel and check it out and see
what we've got there.
So, Jane, I think you obviouslycome across incredibly warmly.
You have an instant ability toconnect with people.
Was it always that way for you?
You said you accidentally foundyourself in sales, as so many
(14:58):
people who wind up amazing atsales do.
Jane Hernon (15:12):
Did you always have that natural connection with
people, or was that somethingthat you learned as well?
I would say, I guess that Ialways loved people and
certainly I was never shy orlacking in confidence.
But you never know how good youare at something until you try
it.
And really I suppose if I'dbeen given an option, I possibly
wouldn't have gone down theroad of sales at all.
I really wanted to do interiordesign early on and I ended up
(15:33):
not doing that.
I think the other career path Iwould have gone down was
physiotherapy.
Walt Bayliss (15:41):
That's a big change.
Jane Hernon (15:41):
But yes, that was my very first choice, which
would have been, I think, notwrong for me, because you're
still very much helping peopleand I think I have that in me.
I just love to see people beingable to get up and go.
So, whether that's physicallyor in themselves, or achieve
something or help other people,that for me is just great.
(16:04):
It's not about the money, it'sabout helping people and seeing
them succeed.
So that was my first.
But I didn't get the exam.
I didn't get the exam to getinto college.
So life took me down a differentroute and in those days I
wouldn't have had as much choiceas young people.
Nowadays there's a lot ofdifferent routes you can go to
get to your end goal.
(16:25):
So, as I say, I took thatlovely job in the local pharmacy
and it grew legs.
Then I just really became verygood at what I was doing.
They gave me all the cosmeticsection to look after.
That grew very quickly.
Then, of course, when you'rethat good, that young, you want
to leave and see what else youcan do.
(16:45):
So I ended up doing the beautytherapy in London, ended up
working in Harrods and Salford,just, and that was just
fantastic.
And I suppose another littlepoint I want to make is the
culture on teams is so important.
So how does somebody developthat.
(17:06):
Well, I think there can be nobackstabbing, there can be no
meanness about anybody.
I think if you have gripes withpeople, it needs to be said
because you've got to worktogether and it comes from the
top.
And, as I said, I had thatlovely Australian leader at the
(17:29):
time of our team.
She was just so perceptive andthere were quite a few young
girls.
She was in her mid-thirties atthe time, so she had the
experience with working withpeople and I suppose is not
allowing badness creep in andbeing fair to people.
(17:50):
So not like making people stayon the counter when you know
they have a headache or you knowthere's a gripe with somebody
else.
Just go, we'll manage fine,don't worry, you're part of our
team.
It's important that you getwell and come back.
Whatever it is, there'sfairness and everyone feels
equal.
So there's also a lot ofdifferent cultures working there
(18:12):
, a lot of differentnationalities, foreign languages
, so we all have to be verypatient with each other and
everyone has their strengths andeveryone has their weaknesses.
So if you know that Mary Janenext door to you isn't hectic at
one side of things or she feelsthat, you feel that maybe she
(18:35):
has a tricky customer that youcould handle better.
You can step in and help herthere, because you know that
she's going to help you back.
Walt Bayliss (18:41):
So it's again about genuine care and about
making sure that people aretreated as people rather than
just employees or as in numbers.
So how did that lead you toAustralia, Jane?
That's an amazing jump.
I did that in reverse.
I went from Australia to London, which was amazing for me.
But how did that come to you inyour world, going from harrods
(19:03):
and suffrages over to theAustralian shores?
Jane Hernon (19:11):
and suffrages over to the Australian shores.
So I would say that a lot of myage group at the time were in
New.
York or Boston.
That was the place to go and Ithink it was oversaturated and I
was working with a few girls inLondon that were Australian, so
that was the attraction for me.
And they weren't necessarilythere, they hadn't gone home,
but I'd heard so many goodthings that I ended up going to
(19:32):
live in Sydney and I spent twoand a half years there and I'd
say they were possibly the twoand a half years, best two and a
half years, of my life.
I absolutely adored it.
I don't know I'll tell you in aminute why I came back, but out
of that time too, I spent sixmonths of that in New Zealand
and did some traveling, but Iwas always based, I lived, in
(19:54):
Cremorne in Sydney, just alovely area, lovely city.
It was just the freedom, theclimate, the people.
It was just ticking all myboxes after wet, stressful
London and Dublin.
So it was just a lovely changewhen I was young and free.
You know.
Walt Bayliss (20:10):
So it was just great.
Something brought you back then.
I mean, you speak about it sofondly, which is lovely, but
something brought you back.
What was it that tripped theswitch and sent you back all
that way?
Jane Hernon (20:23):
I'll tell you why.
I suppose I had actuallyapplied for residency in Sydney
and in those days you had tolive there for at least two
years.
I'll tell you why I suppose.
I was, I had actually appliedfor residency in Sydney and in
those days you had to live therefor at least two years when you
had applied.
So I was already there twoyears.
I hadn't seen my family.
In those days People weren'ttraveling as often.
It was the very early 1990s, sothat's just telling you my age
(20:47):
now, isn't it too?
So I suppose I got a phone callthen from a friend to say we
have a superb job to head up acosmetic agency that has taken
over in Ireland and we want youback we'd love you back for that
, and that happened in the Marchand I came.
That's that is why I left and Ileft very quickly.
But saying that, I did return.
(21:09):
This Christmas I was in Sydneyfor New Year.
I had the best time, but Iactually walked down Elizabeth
Street and I had tears in myeyes.
It brought back a lot ofemotion for me.
I had some superb friends.
It's a fabulous city to live init really was.
It was just so free andfantastic and I met some great
people.
Walt Bayliss (21:30):
I'm so glad that you had such an amazing time
there.
So, as I look at your history,so you've taken this amazing
leap.
You've gone international,you're managing an incredible
retail store over here, and thenthat role that you speak of
going back to Ireland as I readthis through was a national role
.
You were then the area managerfor a very large cosmetics brand
(21:50):
and taking on a national role.
So at this point now your salesskills needs to be translated
not necessarily frontline, I'mguessing You're now teaching the
teams of people around Irelandand helping them to create those
same results.
So was that a big change foryou in terms of what a day
looked like?
You went from that kind ofretail front end to then
(22:12):
managing those teams all aroundthe country.
Was that something that reallytook off for you?
Was it a love as well a passion?
Jane Hernon (22:19):
No, it wasn't.
It was actually quite tricky tobe perfectly honest.
I grew to love it but it became.
You just can't keep doing thesame thing all the time,
especially when you're young.
You need to just branch out andtry some new things, and I
think that's the only way you'reever going to grow or know if
you're any good at it.
But if you don't touch it,you're never going to know.
(22:40):
So when I came back to Ireland,it was actually quite difficult
.
A lot of my friends had movedon, had lived in London before
that, and then I went straightfrom London to Australia.
So when I came back here therewas about a five or six year gap
, although I'd kept in touchwith people.
Remember, this was not the timeof the internet either.
(23:01):
So we were just on the brink ofthat then, but so times were
tough for me.
People were getting, all myfriends were getting married,
settling down.
At this stage I was coming intomy later twenties.
So it's not an easy time inanyone's life too, because it's
quite a transitionary time, butI must say that I really enjoyed
(23:22):
it.
I went to work for Bran Thomas,and from Branomas bran thomas
would be the harrods of dublinum, I looked after the clinic
team in there, so I became thatlovely girl that was my original
boss in in in selfridges.
I became her now in in branthomas.
So we had a very big team clinicwas the skincare cosmetic
(23:47):
cosmetic house.
At the time it was absolutelyenormous and it still is, but at
the time it was huge.
So, um, from there then I wentdirectly to Guerlain and looked
after all the accounts all overIreland, including Northern
Ireland, which is part of the UKas you know.
So that was very differentbecause what I was really doing
(24:09):
was starting to really motivatethe teams and seeing the little
cracks or where people werereally struggling within teams.
But I had all that experiencethen to be able to share that
with them.
So obviously I wasn't stayingwith them, I was moving on.
But I was making sure that theywere secure in themselves, that
they were able to meet theirtargets, that they had their
(24:31):
stock levels, that there were nocustomer issues.
So there was an awful lot tosort out and then prepare them
for when they were doing gift toa purchase, because that's kind
of high octane in a storesituation.
Everyone needs to be well andon and full throttle for two
weeks.
That's the big kind of moneyearner.
So looking after, of coursethere were lots of issues.
(24:54):
There always are lots of issuesbetween stores and the way they
want you to manage something,the way they want their stock
displayed, and you don't wantthat because you're certain
merchandising.
You've all these issues.
So the girls were up against alot of barriers, depending on
the policies of the companies,but the same basic issues are
(25:14):
always there.
Everyone needs upskilling andwhat I'm finding now is that a
lot of managers are coming inwith super degrees, great
qualifications, but they don'thave people skills and they're
going in then and saying, look,this is the way it's going to be
.
And then others the sales teamor whatever underneath them are
(25:36):
kind of going this isn't howwe've been doing it, and
suddenly the results aren't asgood as they were and they're
wondering why.
But it's all to do with thepeople management.
If you don't get it right fromthe top, nothing is going to
operate well for you.
I find that fascinating.
Walt Bayliss (25:55):
I think the change in the way that we all
communicate these days and thesocial media, I guess sensation
and the wave that we're all onthere has changed that people
skills, environment and, again,same age group I grew up with,
you know finding that connectionwith people was something that
(26:16):
was a skill that was developedearly on.
But it's interesting to me nowthat to understand the people
skills, the soft skills ofpeople to people connection, is
so important.
So we're going to lead into thefact that you've now, from that
role, you opened your ownbusiness.
You had that for a few yearsand then you've changed and gone
back and now again creatingyour incredible coaching
(26:37):
business that you have now.
Is this something that you arefocused on with your clients now
?
Are you helping them createthose personal connections as
the valuable skill?
Jane Hernon (26:50):
Yes, so.
So when they contact me, theyusually say look, we're
struggling a little bit, we weredoing very well, but we're
still doing well, but we're notgrowing, so that I will
automatically know that there'ssome issue going on there,
because they've expanded, sothey've taken on more people,
(27:11):
and yet they're taking prettymuch the same figures as they
were a year ago.
So there's something not quiteright there.
Despite recessions and hardtimes and all of that, there's a
better spread.
So therefore, the resultsshould be better spread.
So therefore, the resultsshould be better.
(27:32):
So normally, when I go in, youwill find that the team leader
or the manager or the boss wouldnever see that it could be them
.
Walt Bayliss (27:37):
They rarely do.
Jane Hernon (27:37):
They may sometimes admit to you.
They'll say it could be me, butI don't know quite why, or I'm
having a few issues with this ora few issues with that, and
I'll say look, don't worry, wewill get to the bottom of it.
So normally I would have adiscussion with them first of
all, and that could be over acouple of hours or maybe two or
three sessions, and we'll get tothe real bottom of where we
(27:59):
find that the problems could beor the issues could be.
So then I will go and take theteam and that could be over
several weeks, maybe six toeight weeks, on weekly sessions
of about an hour and a half totwo hours, and we'll really get
down to the nitty gritty and seewhere they're having issues and
where they're having problems.
But eight out of 10 times Iwould say that it all comes down
(28:22):
to the culture.
One feels undervalued.
They're not being beingacknowledged.
My boss doesn't even know me.
I'm having a really tough timeat home, um, but that's it.
So the lack of communication,the amount of companies that
don't make time per week even tomeet as a group is huge.
Yeah, but it's alsoindividually taking those people
(28:43):
, even if it's for a coffee for15 minutes a week and just
saying, sarah, I'm just checkingin with you, john, how are
things?
Walt Bayliss (28:47):
how are you finding, because you learn so
those people, even if it's for acoffee, for?
Jane Hernon (28:47):
15 minutes a week and just saying look, sarah, I'm
just checking in with you, john, how are things, how are you
finding?
Because you learn so much aboutsomebody and a lot of people
will say to me look, I wasemployed to actually be in sales
, but I'm not in sales, I'm anadmin and I'm very frustrated.
Yeah, but they're afraid,they're afraid to say it, in
case they're told to get on withit or lose their job or yes, or
(29:11):
that they're undervalued orwhatever.
So there's a lot of frustrationbefore you even get down to
sales skills per se.
So by the time I get down todoing the upskilling.
There's a lot of layers.
Walt Bayliss (29:27):
You've got to get that personality connection
through first.
You've got to first seek tounderstand, right?
I noticed that you were quotingStephen Covey on some of your
work there as well.
Seek first to understand, thento be understood.
As you've moved through Janeand now running the coaching
business that you have, which isjanehernoncoaching.
(29:48):
com, by the way, guys, if you'dlike to connect with Jane, it's
janehernoncoaching.
com.
We'll make sure that that's inour show notes as well, so you
guys can check that out.
As you've moved forward, then,you've gone from falling into
sales.
You've become good at it.
You've then grown into amanager area manager, national
manager.
You've traveled internationallyAlong the way.
(30:09):
You did go into that passion ofyours, which was interior
design, and I mentioned beforewe started recording.
I loved some of the shots thatlooked absolutely beautiful.
What skills or what differencedid you find going from working
in a team to now owning yourbusiness and creating your team?
Was there a big upskill thatyou needed to do personally
there?
Jane Hernon (30:31):
so being in in, I suppose it's much more
one-on-one, and I suppose it'salways one-on-one, but when
you're standing in someone'shome as opposed to standing in
the store, which you will alsodo.
I actually am still doing alittle bit of that work because
one company employs me two daysa week, so I do my coaching four
days out of out of the week.
(30:52):
I still look after privateclients for a local company
cosmetic company well-knowncosmetic company here in Dublin
so I will go to their homes andI'll see what they need, what we
need to do, and I think youbuild a great relationship.
It all comes back to therelationships and a great
(31:13):
rapport, and it's about trust aswell, because, as I'd say, I'm
not going to give you somethingthat I know isn't going to be
right for you and you wouldn'thave come to me if you could do
this yourself.
So you give them options again.
So you're going to give them anoption.
Look, this is what you can dowith what you have at the moment
(31:34):
.
This is your basic that youcould do yourself.
No problem.
Here's two options, pushingyour boat out a little bit here.
So these are giving you and youcan marry that and marry that
and marry a little bit of this.
But you have to give peopleoptions, give them choices.
But it's also saying trust me,because I'm going to do this and
(31:55):
I'm going to do this well foryou, but I'm going to push your
boundaries.
So just have a little bit offaith here.
But if someone is going tospend 20,000 euro with you on
new sofas, furnishings, new rugs, whatever they need to know and
they need to trust you thatyou're going to do a great job
for them.
So again, it's about therelationships.
It's about getting to know andthey need to trust you that
you're going to do a great jobfor them.
So again, it's about therelationships.
(32:16):
It's about getting to knowpeople.
Did their cat go to the vetlast week?
Just follow up on that.
A lot of people have elderlyparents now that are still well
alive into their 80s and 90s,not like our parents' generation
, who didn't really have that.
So a lot of them are insandwich generation.
They've got people in theirearly 20s living at home, still
(32:37):
with them in college and they'relooking after.
So you've got all that bridginggoing on and homes have to be
created to accommodate all that.
So it's just about having agood memory about the person
that's standing in front of you.
It's also about when you getinto that creative zone that you
are thinking about them andtheir lifestyle.
(33:00):
Everything in sales comes backto, not about you.
It's all about the customer.
Walt Bayliss (33:06):
It's about that connection, about the
communication as well.
Did that lead you to your book?
So now we've got in all of thisincredible growth that you've
had.
How the heck did you have timeto write a book Incredible?
So that is the book that waspublished last year Finding your
True North in Retail Sales howto Find Clarity and Passion in
your Business.
How did you sit down and writea book?
(33:27):
Was it always inside you,something you just had to get
out there, or did you dedicatetime to it?
What was the thinking behindcreating the book there?
Jane Hernon (33:34):
Well, I suppose, Walt, it's only an e-book first
of all, so it's not huge, butit's something that's very
downloadable and there are somegreat little pointers in that
and great little tips.
But I am also developing an appwhich I'm going to be launching
quite soon, so I'll let youknow when that's coming out.
And that has a six-week on it,so that is fantastic for for
(33:57):
sales teams and for leaders, andthere's a lot of videos, a lot
of quizzes, a lot of pointers.
There's an awful lot of of uminformation in that, so that'll
be launching quite soon too.
Um, yes, it's all very timeconsuming, but you do get better
.
The more you do it, the more,and I have got help now as well.
Walt Bayliss (34:19):
Did you just know that you had to do it, Jane.
Had it been in the back of yourmind forever while you were
having a cup of tea in themorning thinking, gee, I just
need to sit down and startwriting.
Jane Hernon (34:30):
Yes, and I possibly will write a better book about
really how to get down and dirtywith sales, how to really,
because a lot of the girls thatI'm coming in contact with now
they're younger than me andthey're saying so how do I get
that sale over the line this,how am I going to?
(34:50):
So it's just about having theconfidence and knowing that you
can bring your customer on thatjourney.
But a lot of people don't askfor the sale.
There's ways to ask for thesale as well.
So when you get so far, theyhave this kind of pause then and
then people say do you knowwhat I'll think about it?
When people think about it,they generally don't buy.
(35:11):
Very few will come back and buyfrom you because you're not
really sure yourself theyhaven't really sold it to you,
so don't let them.
Don't let them say that to you.
Walt Bayliss (35:23):
I was gonna say get that out of the the horizon.
Jane Hernon (35:27):
Like make sure that you absolutely don't give them
anything left absolutely I uselanguage like they already have
it.
You know that it's already sold,that it's in their home, that
it's on them, whether it'sjewellery or whatever it is.
So, as I say to them, justvisualise this.
I can see a room, this is inthat corner.
The function is this, that andthe other.
(35:49):
And can you imagine when theother, the, come in from from
school, or when your mom comesto visit, that's a great chair
for her to get in and out of.
So you're really painting thepicture for people.
And then you have to ask forthe sale.
So where are we at?
Will we will, we go with thisand go with this?
And and you'll say, listen,we'll have it all.
Thanks very much, but you'vegot to.
(36:10):
You've got to ask for that sale, you've got to sell yourself
that sale, you've got to sellyourself, sell that confidence
and not, you know, a lot ofgirls are very creative, and
it's not just girls, of course,guys too, very creative, very go
ahead, but there's a littlepause and in that moment's
hesitation you lose it.
(36:34):
So it's to keep that momentumgoing, keep the keep, just just
keep on, keeping on with thesale keep communicating, keep
connecting keep communicating,keep connecting, and I see that
I can, I'm listening in and I'mtuning in and I'm thinking they
lost it actually five minutesago and now they're struggling.
So it's it's those skills toknow when to, to actually say
(36:59):
here we are and and if you arehaving objections, I would.
I would actually try and andand foresee the objection that
may occur.
Yeah, and sort it out as you'regoing part of the process.
Yes, indeed, don't let them haltthe sale with an objection at
the end.
So try and read them as you'regoing, or just say you're not
(37:22):
loving that.
Really are you?
Because here's another optionthat we could look at as well.
So read them as you're going.
Walt Bayliss (37:29):
Just don't keep on understanding them, like being
able to connect with somebodyand, as you said, reading them,
understanding their bodylanguage, creating all that.
I think from again looking backat my own sales history, jane,
there was a mentor for me thatasked me to take sales seriously
and he gave me a set of tapeswhich was again showing my abs.
(37:50):
Tapes are things with littledials in it that used to have a
tape deck in your car, but itwas a set of tapes that he gave
me and it was by Jim Rowan,called Take Charge of your Own
Life, and that led me on anincredible journey of
self-discovery.
Is it something for you?
Do you have a list?
I mean, as we talk about thesesoft skills, these people skills
, this body language, thisconnection, this listening, this
(38:11):
understanding as being the coreelement of sales, do you have
like a reading list that yourecommend to people?
Do you say, before we getstarted, here's your study guide
.
Do you have a set of guidebooksthat you've?
Jane Hernon (38:26):
I guess, developed as you've gone.
To be honest, I keep reading, Ikeep looking, I keep learning.
You can never stop.
Do I have any specifics?
Not necessarily because thereare so many out there.
Zig Ziglar is brilliant, too,with sales, but I think it
depends on the company.
(38:46):
It depends on the actual issuesthat have arisen, but certainly
on this new app.
Now I have got a whole libraryof books that I recommend
because it will really help them.
But I think the soft skills areso important, and more so in
this day and age between mentalhealth We've just come out of
(39:07):
COVID and lockdowns, and I thinkeven customers are a little bit
more fragile.
Walt Bayliss (39:13):
I think, people have.
Jane Hernon (39:15):
There's a lot more frustration out there and I
think you have to be more gentle, a little bit calmer, and just
let people take it at their ownpace.
But I do think readingsomeone's body language and
listening, as I was saying,listen to hear, not just listen
to You've got to really listento hear what they're saying so
(39:36):
that you can listen.
Walt Bayliss (39:38):
Otherwise you're never going to be able to make
that transaction happen unlessyou've built the trust and the
communication and connectionalong the way.
Jane Hernon (39:46):
That's right, and they will tell you so much if
you listen to them.
So it'll eliminate a lot of andthat's where a lot of the trust
is built, because you canmirror back to them and say just
let me see, did I hear youcorrectly?
You want x or y?
Is that correct?
Or you're not too keen on suchand such?
So we're not going to go downthat road.
(40:06):
We're going to take that path.
Do you feel comfortable withthat?
It's about the language thatyou use and that you feel god,
she's really getting me here.
So that will lead on and thatwill build the rapport with them
.
Walt Bayliss (40:18):
Amazing, amazing.
Well, guys, as we hear, there'sa path to take for anybody
that's looking to get ahead insales, and what an amazing
career that you can open thedoors with there as well.
Jane, I think as we look around, certainly here in Australia,
there's never a shortage ofopportunities in the retail
space.
There always seems to bepositions available and hiring.
It's actually an incrediblepath that somebody can get
(40:42):
started in with a relativelyshallow resume, as in they maybe
just be a nice person, and thatalone can get you into the door
.
That can lead to internationaltravel, that can create amazing
opportunities and an incrediblecareer along the way.
So there's a path to walk and,guys, if you're struggling with
sales, if you're in a businessenvironment, tapping into some
(41:04):
of the resources, like Jane hasrecommended there, and the app
coming out, this is somethingthat is a learnable skill.
So, as we as business owners,as entrepreneurs, as startup
founders, as we look at all ofthe different skills that are
available and required for us tosucceed out there in business,
sales and the connection withpeople is absolutely the
(41:25):
dominant number one thing thatyou should be focused on to be
able to grow anything, andthat's growing teams, as James
was talking about before, havingthat empathy and understanding
with your team and creating thatculture and, of course, that
same connection with customersas well.
Jane, thank you so much for theopportunity to come in and hear
from your perspective how thingshave come across.
I love everything that you'regetting out there.
(41:46):
I'm also.
I love the fact that now youknow, in that second part of
your career you've createdanother company, the
janehernoncoaching.
com, where you've now takingpeople under your wing and
helping them create that nextera.
I think that's amazing.
So thank you for that, andreally it's just a pleasure.
What do we see next for you?
Your next six to 12 months I'msure is going to be an active
(42:11):
one.
What do you see on?
Jane Hernon (42:12):
the horizon for yourself.
Some people have challenged meactually to write a book on some
of my posts that I have beenposting, and I've really ramped
up my posting, as you can see,on LinkedIn, and I'm just loving
that and the connection thatthat LinkedIn family has been
fantastic for me and to me.
So I just want to give peopleas great value as I possibly can
(42:35):
, because even if it's a Mondaymorning and someone is stuck and
they're going into a littlesales meeting, just pop in on
one of my posts or go back overand have a look and see, because
there's a lot of value in there.
The other thing I'm developing,as I was saying to you, is an
app with courses on it, so veryshort courses to longer courses,
and then, of course, you canalways connect with me if you
(42:57):
want a one-on-one.
So I will possibly have a book,but it'll take maybe another 18
months or so, but the app is inthe pipeline for the next couple
of months.
Walt Bayliss (43:06):
Amazing.
We look forward to it coming upWell.
Thank you guys and Jane, Iappreciate your time and energy
there and everyone again talkingabout being a consistent
learner.
Your time and energy there andeveryone Again, I'm talking
about being a consistent learner.
Looking at Jane's educationthere, her last qualification
was just 12, 18 months ago,still pushing that boundary of
continuous learning and creatingthose skills.
So tap in and see how far youcan take yourself.
(43:27):
Jane, thank you so much foryour time.
I appreciate you and whatyou've achieved and thank you
for making that available topeople and helping that next
generation of salespeople comingforward and achieving great
things as well.
Ladies and gentlemen, janeHernon and we look forward to
seeing what's coming next foryou.
Thanks, jane.
Jane Hernon (43:42):
Thank you, Walsh.
Thank you.
Ladies and gentlemen, thank you so much for
joining me.
This is Walt with the SalesStartups and Side Hustles
podcast.
We have an incredible specialguest on our show today, someone
who grew up in Dublin, ireland,has then gone on to live on
multiple continents across theplanet and has been in sales and
leading sales teams for morethan 30 years.
She has created incredibleresults working with companies
(00:24):
like Harrods of London, workingwith David Jones here in
Australia, and has now gone onto publish her first book, which
is called Finding your TrueNorth, or Finding your North
Star, published last year andavailable on Amazon.
She is an incredible salesmentor and she is now the
managing director of her ownsales training organization,
(00:45):
which is Coaching with Jane Ithink I've got that right.
Jane Hernon is her name and sheis our sales superstar joining
us this morning.
Jane, thank you so much forjumping on the show Now.
I'm looking at your history.
I'm seeing your incrediblerange of results that you've
been able to achieve.
You jumped straight out ofcollege straight out of school
and into the retail salesenvironment.
Jane Hernon (01:09):
Welcome to the show and tell us how did this all
get started for you?
So I would say that first ofall, I'm delighted to be on your
show, Walt, Thanks very muchfor having me and greetings to
everyone from Dublin.
So I'd say that I possiblywasn't the most academic person.
I was always a doer rather thanburying my head in books.
So from that end, I was neverdestined to go and do a degree
(01:30):
in college.
I just wanted to hit the groundrunning, try and find something
that I loved and purely byaccident, I actually got into
sales, and that was pharmacysales, just locally.
I was only 17 at the time.
So I suppose from that I becamevery good very quickly, and I
suppose what is missing in alittle bit today that we find
(01:53):
there's not an awful lot ofsales training, and in those
days we were trained how to sell.
So we would have trainingsessions first thing in the
morning and Saturday morningswe'd come in early.
John Cleese actually was one ofour, not in person, he had made
(02:14):
a series and they're stillavailable if you go hunting for
them, but they were incrediblehow to deal with the tricky
customer, just how to closesales, how to be respectful.
So there was actual propertraining, which I find nowadays
is really lacking.
So a lot of people come intothese roles they might love
furniture, they might love thepharmacy end, they might love
(02:35):
the new products, but they don'treally know how to sell and
they don't really know how toclose that sale, and
particularly in B2B.
That is vital because it's allabout the building relationships
.
The rapport finding that painthat somebody is finding it
difficult to bridge a gap andthere's a lot of competition out
(02:58):
there.
So you need to really know yourcustomer very well and help
them through that process,Absolutely.
So, if I backpedal a little bit,I didn't spend too long in
Dublin.
I'd say I was 19, 20 when Ileft and I went to London.
So I did beauty therapy courseand I did the international, the
(03:20):
Sodesco.
So anyone in that end wouldknow that particular
qualification which gives you adiploma really to work anywhere
in the world.
So you have sales, you have allyour beauty, you have your
cosmetics, everything, all thattraining background.
So I did that in Baker Streetin London and then I stayed
(03:42):
there for a few.
I'd say I stayed for about fiveyears in London working in
Harrods, working in Selfridges.
So there's nothing like beingon a big team, but I was the
junior on a big team.
And it's fantastic and it'sfascinating, and you can imagine
, in such a huge store withmassive footfall, how busy we
(04:04):
were all the time, howexhausting it was.
So I suppose the one thing thatI did learn from very early on,
first of all, it's theimportance of getting on with
your team, the importance ofbeing equal, and we had a super
manager of I think there wasabout 15 of us on that team, so
(04:27):
that's a very big sales team ina very small area, and she was
just incredible.
She was Australian, actually,she was a super girl, but she
you would not have known had youcome to the counter to buy
products.
You would not have known whowas the real boss.
You would not know.
(04:47):
She just treated us all reallyequally and, from a perspective,
there wasn't that boss and teamelement and that is the big
secret.
It's like being the servantboss.
Walt Bayliss (05:01):
that is the way to do it is that something that
you've carried forward like, Imean you?
Absolutely the manager in thatrole, and was she your mentor?
Jane Hernon (05:09):
they're moving she was my mentor, so I had I was
very lucky from very early on.
Now I had some difficult peoplelater on, which is also good to
learn from, because you have togrow a little bit of a thick
skin and in a lot of ways withsales, you are acting.
You really have to think onyour feet.
You're improvising constantly.
So if you have a bad day athome, if things aren't great,
(05:32):
you have to bring in your goodface to work, because you're
dealing with.
You know people are coming toyou for help, for solutions.
That's what sales is all about.
So, being on a big team where wewere all very equal, she was
very fair.
Everyone got listened to andthe real secret, too, is she got
to know us all personally, soshe would take us for a coffee.
(05:53):
So basically, she was holdingyour hand, getting you through
situations, anything, anyproblems that we were having,
because you'd always find, look,one person may not be pulling
their weight.
You happen to be going to thestock room situations anything,
any problems that we were having, because you'd always find,
look, one person may not bepulling their weight.
You happen to be going to thestockroom and doing the
deliveries when they come in andtrying to sort customers out
(06:15):
and a lot of people on teamslike that.
You'll find that half them pulltheir weight far more than
others will, and others arecoasting through.
Exactly, and others will just do.
Walt Bayliss (06:27):
Sorry, I didn't mean to cut you off.
It must have been an amazingfeeling to have the hallowed
halls of Harrods around you, andSelfridges as well, and
generating that incredibleteamwork within that amazing
environment.
I guess, being only a fan, ashopper, a retail person,
customer coming into Harrods, Isee the glamour, I see the
(06:49):
amazing energy that's withinthat environment, but there must
have been just a massive amountof work to do every single day
for so many people comingthrough those doors.
Jane Hernon (06:59):
There was, and we would have to have little
meetings every morning, anddifferent jobs were allocated to
different people, so we wouldall be on a rota, for want of a
better word.
It's like running a household.
You have to get the chores done,so therefore, we all need to
share them out.
So, yeah, an awful lot to do,because we were also a skincare
(07:19):
company, so we were alsooffering facials in the back.
So you're in quite a confinedspace and the footfall through
these doors is just enormous.
So you're always on, you don'thave time to kind of slump and
say Put your feet up and have acup of tea and never get that
chance.
No, no, no, no.
So there was not that chance atall.
(07:40):
So, yes, fantastic experience.
Walt Bayliss (07:45):
Now, you mentioned , just before we clicked on the
record button, that you areintensely competitive, which I
absolutely love.
Was there a daily set that youhad to reach?
Was there a target for the team?
Was it something that you wereconstantly aware of and
constantly pushing for?
Jane Hernon (07:58):
Yes, so we would analyze our achievements from
the week before.
It depended on the time of theyear, but we would be on
promotion maybe three to fourtimes in that year.
So that would be gift to apurchase.
So our budgets would beenormous for that.
You can imagine in a store likeHarrods where your footfall
would be 200,000 a day, perhapsthrough the store.
(08:20):
So you have to get out thereand attract.
Attract that.
So obviously you'd havemerchandising in everything else
and there'll be somebody incharge of that.
Um, but you would also you needto have written to your own
customers.
We'd all have our own specificcustomers as well.
That would come to us.
(08:41):
So the other amazing thing thatI found too in basic training is
that when someone comes to youand they're looking for whatever
product it is so it doesn'tmatter whether you're selling
cutlery, face cream, softfurnishings always give them
what they're looking for.
So if the lady wants her eyecream or a lipstick, always put
(09:04):
that in front of them first andthen do your link selling when a
lot of people go.
They're looking, they'reanalyzing the lady, maybe in
front of them or thinking well,actually we've got this new
product and I want to push that,because that's where I'm going
to get my bonus from.
Always give the customer whatthey want.
What do they ask for first ofall?
Because otherwise they're neverreally going to be satisfied
(09:25):
long term.
What do they ask for first ofall?
Because otherwise they're neverreally going to be satisfied
long-term.
They came in looking for acertain thing.
Give it to them and then linksell.
Walt Bayliss (09:31):
And start from there.
Jane Hernon (09:32):
Link sell around that.
Walt Bayliss (09:34):
In my sales career I've always been told that the
customer clearly the customer isalways right, but sometimes
they don't know what they need.
And especially as you're movingfrom that retail environment
into B2B and where your focus isnow, I know with your coaching
business, you're talking verymuch to companies about finding
their sales feed and trainingthe sales teams and creating all
(09:57):
of that.
Do you ever find the case whereyou don't really know or
understand what the customer islooking for?
They come to you with a problembut they don't know the
solution.
You have to design that withthem.
Jane Hernon (10:08):
Absolutely.
I'd say eight out of 10customers are that customer, and
so, no matter what it is,whether it's components for an
engineering company, as I wassaying, or it's cosmetics or
soft furnishing or whatever aline you're in pharmacy end, At
the end of the day the customerwill come to you for one
(10:31):
specific reason They've eitherheard that you're very good,
that your product's very good,or that you look after the
customer well, or else they'rejust testing to see, Because in
the end of the day now peoplecan just really look things up
and go anywhere.
So when you have that attentionin front of you and if someone
is actually coming to you, thatis gold, so you don't have to go
(10:54):
out looking for that business.
They have come to you.
So, if so, it's up to you tobuild the rapport and you make
it all about them, not aboutwhat you are going to do for
them.
You you need to delve deep andjust get to know that customer,
and sometimes that can take acouple of touches.
It's not, that's not going tohappen on the first go.
So you've made the connection.
(11:15):
Then you do another follow-upand you've maybe gone away and
done some research for them withthe company that is supplying
you, so that you can go back andgive them even more information
and see if that's going to helpthem solve their issue.
So it's all about building therelationship, getting to know
the customer really well,getting to know their needs and
(11:36):
seeing how you're going to beable to slot in there and long
term it's not just for now, soin the future will you be able
to link something else that'sgoing to add on to that.
And so you're building therapport, building the
relationship, and it's kind oflike a friendship.
So, it doesn't become about theproduct really until later.
Walt Bayliss (11:56):
Yeah right, Until you understand them.
Jane Hernon (11:58):
Yes, you could have had about three touches or
three situations where you'vehad contact with them before you
even get down to thatabsolutely so make it all about
them.
It's not about you and howyou're going to.
It's about them.
Find out what they need, whattheir pain point is, what
solutions they need.
Sometimes, as I say, in somecases you've got to go away and
(12:22):
try and find solutions for themand come back then.
So it's about the service andmaking them feel really good
that you're really looking afterthem.
Walt Bayliss (12:33):
Amazing, amazing.
Is it something that'steachable?
Do you think, jane?
Do you think I meet a lot ofbusiness owners who are
incredible at what they'vecreated.
They've created somethingspecial in the marketplace, and
then they'll turn around to meand they'll say something like
oh, but I just, I'm just notgood at sales.
Is it something that anybodycan learn?
Do you feel?
Jane Hernon (12:51):
Yes.
Walt Bayliss (12:53):
I think it's very teachable.
Jane Hernon (12:55):
I think some people are just born, but born
salespeople.
But I think you've got to havea passion for helping people,
because I think if you make itabout the money or the product,
I think you're missing the point.
I think look after yourcustomer and the money will look
after itself.
So there's a lot of companiesout there that have great
(13:18):
products and, yes, your productis great and it's unique and
it's fantastic and it's marketedbeautifully and packaged
beautifully but they can reallyget that same product that's
going to do the same thing forthem.
You've got to sell thosebenefits and it's really selling
you and a lot of people missthat point.
It's you.
So I have this little joke withsome of the girls that I train
(13:40):
and I say that I always need tohave a good pair of glasses on
because this is my truth.
I want you to connect with meand make eye contact with me.
So it's the eye contact and therelationship and how you are
with people physically.
A lot of it is body language aswell.
(14:01):
So it's not just about whatyou're showing them or how
you're showing them.
It's about you selling yourselfto them.
It's buying their trust.
Walt Bayliss (14:13):
Amazing.
Jane Hernon (14:13):
So for me the eyes are very important, that I have
my eyes on my little bit of eyemakeup or whatever.
And the glasses are greatbecause I have to wear them
anyway.
Walt Bayliss (14:22):
Now it's your lens you get to.
You get to switch on and turnthat into.
That's your on mode.
Jane Hernon (14:28):
It's my on mode, but it also can become a little
bit of a barrier breakdown,because you're chatting about
the glasses and you're gettingto know people and you know, so
it's all part of the chit chat.
Walt Bayliss (14:38):
I did notice when we came on and for those of you
who are watching this on thevideo, replay, Jane's glasses
there are amazing.
For those who are on audio,where are you missing out?
Come on over to the YouTubechannel and check it out and see
what we've got there.
So, Jane, I think you obviouslycome across incredibly warmly.
You have an instant ability toconnect with people.
Was it always that way for you?
You said you accidentally foundyourself in sales, as so many
(14:58):
people who wind up amazing atsales do.
Jane Hernon (15:12):
Did you always have that natural connection with
people, or was that somethingthat you learned as well?
I would say, I guess that Ialways loved people and
certainly I was never shy orlacking in confidence.
But you never know how good youare at something until you try
it.
And really I suppose if I'dbeen given an option, I possibly
wouldn't have gone down theroad of sales at all.
I really wanted to do interiordesign early on and I ended up
(15:33):
not doing that.
I think the other career path Iwould have gone down was
physiotherapy.
Walt Bayliss (15:41):
That's a big change.
Jane Hernon (15:41):
But yes, that was my very first choice, which
would have been, I think, notwrong for me, because you're
still very much helping peopleand I think I have that in me.
I just love to see people beingable to get up and go.
So, whether that's physicallyor in themselves, or achieve
something or help other people,that for me is just great.
(16:04):
It's not about the money, it'sabout helping people and seeing
them succeed.
So that was my first.
But I didn't get the exam.
I didn't get the exam to getinto college.
So life took me down a differentroute and in those days I
wouldn't have had as much choiceas young people.
Nowadays there's a lot ofdifferent routes you can go to
get to your end goal.
(16:25):
So, as I say, I took thatlovely job in the local pharmacy
and it grew legs.
Then I just really became verygood at what I was doing.
They gave me all the cosmeticsection to look after.
That grew very quickly.
Then, of course, when you'rethat good, that young, you want
to leave and see what else youcan do.
(16:45):
So I ended up doing the beautytherapy in London, ended up
working in Harrods and Salford,just, and that was just
fantastic.
And I suppose another littlepoint I want to make is the
culture on teams is so important.
So how does somebody developthat.
(17:06):
Well, I think there can be nobackstabbing, there can be no
meanness about anybody.
I think if you have gripes withpeople, it needs to be said
because you've got to worktogether and it comes from the
top.
And, as I said, I had thatlovely Australian leader at the
(17:29):
time of our team.
She was just so perceptive andthere were quite a few young
girls.
She was in her mid-thirties atthe time, so she had the
experience with working withpeople and I suppose is not
allowing badness creep in andbeing fair to people.
(17:50):
So not like making people stayon the counter when you know
they have a headache or you knowthere's a gripe with somebody
else.
Just go, we'll manage fine,don't worry, you're part of our
team.
It's important that you getwell and come back.
Whatever it is, there'sfairness and everyone feels
equal.
So there's also a lot ofdifferent cultures working there
(18:12):
, a lot of differentnationalities, foreign languages
, so we all have to be verypatient with each other and
everyone has their strengths andeveryone has their weaknesses.
So if you know that Mary Janenext door to you isn't hectic at
one side of things or she feelsthat, you feel that maybe she
(18:35):
has a tricky customer that youcould handle better.
You can step in and help herthere, because you know that
she's going to help you back.
Walt Bayliss (18:41):
So it's again about genuine care and about
making sure that people aretreated as people rather than
just employees or as in numbers.
So how did that lead you toAustralia, Jane?
That's an amazing jump.
I did that in reverse.
I went from Australia to London, which was amazing for me.
But how did that come to you inyour world, going from harrods
(19:03):
and suffrages over to theAustralian shores?
Jane Hernon (19:11):
and suffrages over to the Australian shores.
So I would say that a lot of myage group at the time were in
New.
York or Boston.
That was the place to go and Ithink it was oversaturated and I
was working with a few girls inLondon that were Australian, so
that was the attraction for me.
And they weren't necessarilythere, they hadn't gone home,
but I'd heard so many goodthings that I ended up going to
(19:32):
live in Sydney and I spent twoand a half years there and I'd
say they were possibly the twoand a half years, best two and a
half years, of my life.
I absolutely adored it.
I don't know I'll tell you in aminute why I came back, but out
of that time too, I spent sixmonths of that in New Zealand
and did some traveling, but Iwas always based, I lived, in
(19:54):
Cremorne in Sydney, just alovely area, lovely city.
It was just the freedom, theclimate, the people.
It was just ticking all myboxes after wet, stressful
London and Dublin.
So it was just a lovely changewhen I was young and free.
You know.
Walt Bayliss (20:10):
So it was just great.
Something brought you back then.
I mean, you speak about it sofondly, which is lovely, but
something brought you back.
What was it that tripped theswitch and sent you back all
that way?
Jane Hernon (20:23):
I'll tell you why.
I suppose I had actuallyapplied for residency in Sydney
and in those days you had tolive there for at least two
years.
I'll tell you why I suppose.
I was, I had actually appliedfor residency in Sydney and in
those days you had to live therefor at least two years when you
had applied.
So I was already there twoyears.
I hadn't seen my family.
In those days People weren'ttraveling as often.
It was the very early 1990s, sothat's just telling you my age
(20:47):
now, isn't it too?
So I suppose I got a phone callthen from a friend to say we
have a superb job to head up acosmetic agency that has taken
over in Ireland and we want youback we'd love you back for that
, and that happened in the Marchand I came.
That's that is why I left and Ileft very quickly.
But saying that, I did return.
(21:09):
This Christmas I was in Sydneyfor New Year.
I had the best time, but Iactually walked down Elizabeth
Street and I had tears in myeyes.
It brought back a lot ofemotion for me.
I had some superb friends.
It's a fabulous city to live init really was.
It was just so free andfantastic and I met some great
people.
Walt Bayliss (21:30):
I'm so glad that you had such an amazing time
there.
So, as I look at your history,so you've taken this amazing
leap.
You've gone international,you're managing an incredible
retail store over here, and thenthat role that you speak of
going back to Ireland as I readthis through was a national role
.
You were then the area managerfor a very large cosmetics brand
(21:50):
and taking on a national role.
So at this point now your salesskills needs to be translated
not necessarily frontline, I'mguessing You're now teaching the
teams of people around Irelandand helping them to create those
same results.
So was that a big change foryou in terms of what a day
looked like?
You went from that kind ofretail front end to then
(22:12):
managing those teams all aroundthe country.
Was that something that reallytook off for you?
Was it a love as well a passion?
Jane Hernon (22:19):
No, it wasn't.
It was actually quite tricky tobe perfectly honest.
I grew to love it but it became.
You just can't keep doing thesame thing all the time,
especially when you're young.
You need to just branch out andtry some new things, and I
think that's the only way you'reever going to grow or know if
you're any good at it.
But if you don't touch it,you're never going to know.
(22:40):
So when I came back to Ireland,it was actually quite difficult
.
A lot of my friends had movedon, had lived in London before
that, and then I went straightfrom London to Australia.
So when I came back here therewas about a five or six year gap
, although I'd kept in touchwith people.
Remember, this was not the timeof the internet either.
(23:01):
So we were just on the brink ofthat then, but so times were
tough for me.
People were getting, all myfriends were getting married,
settling down.
At this stage I was coming intomy later twenties.
So it's not an easy time inanyone's life too, because it's
quite a transitionary time, butI must say that I really enjoyed
(23:22):
it.
I went to work for Bran Thomas,and from Branomas bran thomas
would be the harrods of dublinum, I looked after the clinic
team in there, so I became thatlovely girl that was my original
boss in in in selfridges.
I became her now in in branthomas.
So we had a very big team clinicwas the skincare cosmetic
(23:47):
cosmetic house.
At the time it was absolutelyenormous and it still is, but at
the time it was huge.
So, um, from there then I wentdirectly to Guerlain and looked
after all the accounts all overIreland, including Northern
Ireland, which is part of the UKas you know.
So that was very differentbecause what I was really doing
(24:09):
was starting to really motivatethe teams and seeing the little
cracks or where people werereally struggling within teams.
But I had all that experiencethen to be able to share that
with them.
So obviously I wasn't stayingwith them, I was moving on.
But I was making sure that theywere secure in themselves, that
they were able to meet theirtargets, that they had their
(24:31):
stock levels, that there were nocustomer issues.
So there was an awful lot tosort out and then prepare them
for when they were doing gift toa purchase, because that's kind
of high octane in a storesituation.
Everyone needs to be well andon and full throttle for two
weeks.
That's the big kind of moneyearner.
So looking after, of coursethere were lots of issues.
(24:54):
There always are lots of issuesbetween stores and the way they
want you to manage something,the way they want their stock
displayed, and you don't wantthat because you're certain
merchandising.
You've all these issues.
So the girls were up against alot of barriers, depending on
the policies of the companies,but the same basic issues are
(25:14):
always there.
Everyone needs upskilling andwhat I'm finding now is that a
lot of managers are coming inwith super degrees, great
qualifications, but they don'thave people skills and they're
going in then and saying, look,this is the way it's going to be
.
And then others the sales teamor whatever underneath them are
(25:36):
kind of going this isn't howwe've been doing it, and
suddenly the results aren't asgood as they were and they're
wondering why.
But it's all to do with thepeople management.
If you don't get it right fromthe top, nothing is going to
operate well for you.
I find that fascinating.
Walt Bayliss (25:55):
I think the change in the way that we all
communicate these days and thesocial media, I guess sensation
and the wave that we're all onthere has changed that people
skills, environment and, again,same age group I grew up with,
you know finding that connectionwith people was something that
(26:16):
was a skill that was developedearly on.
But it's interesting to me nowthat to understand the people
skills, the soft skills ofpeople to people connection, is
so important.
So we're going to lead into thefact that you've now, from that
role, you opened your ownbusiness.
You had that for a few yearsand then you've changed and gone
back and now again creatingyour incredible coaching
(26:37):
business that you have now.
Is this something that you arefocused on with your clients now
?
Are you helping them createthose personal connections as
the valuable skill?
Jane Hernon (26:50):
Yes, so.
So when they contact me, theyusually say look, we're
struggling a little bit, we weredoing very well, but we're
still doing well, but we're notgrowing, so that I will
automatically know that there'ssome issue going on there,
because they've expanded, sothey've taken on more people,
(27:11):
and yet they're taking prettymuch the same figures as they
were a year ago.
So there's something not quiteright there.
Despite recessions and hardtimes and all of that, there's a
better spread.
So therefore, the resultsshould be better spread.
So therefore, the resultsshould be better.
(27:32):
So normally, when I go in, youwill find that the team leader
or the manager or the boss wouldnever see that it could be them
.
Walt Bayliss (27:37):
They rarely do.
Jane Hernon (27:37):
They may sometimes admit to you.
They'll say it could be me, butI don't know quite why, or I'm
having a few issues with this ora few issues with that, and
I'll say look, don't worry, wewill get to the bottom of it.
So normally I would have adiscussion with them first of
all, and that could be over acouple of hours or maybe two or
three sessions, and we'll get tothe real bottom of where we
(27:59):
find that the problems could beor the issues could be.
So then I will go and take theteam and that could be over
several weeks, maybe six toeight weeks, on weekly sessions
of about an hour and a half totwo hours, and we'll really get
down to the nitty gritty and seewhere they're having issues and
where they're having problems.
But eight out of 10 times Iwould say that it all comes down
(28:22):
to the culture.
One feels undervalued.
They're not being beingacknowledged.
My boss doesn't even know me.
I'm having a really tough timeat home, um, but that's it.
So the lack of communication,the amount of companies that
don't make time per week even tomeet as a group is huge.
Yeah, but it's alsoindividually taking those people
(28:43):
, even if it's for a coffee for15 minutes a week and just
saying, sarah, I'm just checkingin with you, john, how are
things?
Walt Bayliss (28:47):
how are you finding, because you learn so
those people, even if it's for acoffee, for?
Jane Hernon (28:47):
15 minutes a week and just saying look, sarah, I'm
just checking in with you, john, how are things, how are you
finding?
Because you learn so much aboutsomebody and a lot of people
will say to me look, I wasemployed to actually be in sales
, but I'm not in sales, I'm anadmin and I'm very frustrated.
Yeah, but they're afraid,they're afraid to say it, in
case they're told to get on withit or lose their job or yes, or
(29:11):
that they're undervalued orwhatever.
So there's a lot of frustrationbefore you even get down to
sales skills per se.
So by the time I get down todoing the upskilling.
There's a lot of layers.
Walt Bayliss (29:27):
You've got to get that personality connection
through first.
You've got to first seek tounderstand, right?
I noticed that you were quotingStephen Covey on some of your
work there as well.
Seek first to understand, thento be understood.
As you've moved through Janeand now running the coaching
business that you have, which isjanehernoncoaching.
(29:48):
com, by the way, guys, if you'dlike to connect with Jane, it's
janehernoncoaching.
com.
We'll make sure that that's inour show notes as well, so you
guys can check that out.
As you've moved forward, then,you've gone from falling into
sales.
You've become good at it.
You've then grown into amanager area manager, national
manager.
You've traveled internationallyAlong the way.
(30:09):
You did go into that passion ofyours, which was interior
design, and I mentioned beforewe started recording.
I loved some of the shots thatlooked absolutely beautiful.
What skills or what differencedid you find going from working
in a team to now owning yourbusiness and creating your team?
Was there a big upskill thatyou needed to do personally
there?
Jane Hernon (30:31):
so being in in, I suppose it's much more
one-on-one, and I suppose it'salways one-on-one, but when
you're standing in someone'shome as opposed to standing in
the store, which you will alsodo.
I actually am still doing alittle bit of that work because
one company employs me two daysa week, so I do my coaching four
days out of out of the week.
(30:52):
I still look after privateclients for a local company
cosmetic company well-knowncosmetic company here in Dublin
so I will go to their homes andI'll see what they need, what we
need to do, and I think youbuild a great relationship.
It all comes back to therelationships and a great
(31:13):
rapport, and it's about trust aswell, because, as I'd say, I'm
not going to give you somethingthat I know isn't going to be
right for you and you wouldn'thave come to me if you could do
this yourself.
So you give them options again.
So you're going to give them anoption.
Look, this is what you can dowith what you have at the moment
(31:34):
.
This is your basic that youcould do yourself.
No problem.
Here's two options, pushingyour boat out a little bit here.
So these are giving you and youcan marry that and marry that
and marry a little bit of this.
But you have to give peopleoptions, give them choices.
But it's also saying trust me,because I'm going to do this and
(31:55):
I'm going to do this well foryou, but I'm going to push your
boundaries.
So just have a little bit offaith here.
But if someone is going tospend 20,000 euro with you on
new sofas, furnishings, new rugs, whatever they need to know and
they need to trust you thatyou're going to do a great job
for them.
So again, it's about therelationships.
It's about getting to know andthey need to trust you that
you're going to do a great jobfor them.
So again, it's about therelationships.
(32:16):
It's about getting to knowpeople.
Did their cat go to the vetlast week?
Just follow up on that.
A lot of people have elderlyparents now that are still well
alive into their 80s and 90s,not like our parents' generation
, who didn't really have that.
So a lot of them are insandwich generation.
They've got people in theirearly 20s living at home, still
(32:37):
with them in college and they'relooking after.
So you've got all that bridginggoing on and homes have to be
created to accommodate all that.
So it's just about having agood memory about the person
that's standing in front of you.
It's also about when you getinto that creative zone that you
are thinking about them andtheir lifestyle.
(33:00):
Everything in sales comes backto, not about you.
It's all about the customer.
Walt Bayliss (33:06):
It's about that connection, about the
communication as well.
Did that lead you to your book?
So now we've got in all of thisincredible growth that you've
had.
How the heck did you have timeto write a book Incredible?
So that is the book that waspublished last year Finding your
True North in Retail Sales howto Find Clarity and Passion in
your Business.
How did you sit down and writea book?
(33:27):
Was it always inside you,something you just had to get
out there, or did you dedicatetime to it?
What was the thinking behindcreating the book there?
Jane Hernon (33:34):
Well, I suppose, Walt, it's only an e-book first
of all, so it's not huge, butit's something that's very
downloadable and there are somegreat little pointers in that
and great little tips.
But I am also developing an appwhich I'm going to be launching
quite soon, so I'll let youknow when that's coming out.
And that has a six-week on it,so that is fantastic for for
(33:57):
sales teams and for leaders, andthere's a lot of videos, a lot
of quizzes, a lot of pointers.
There's an awful lot of of uminformation in that, so that'll
be launching quite soon too.
Um, yes, it's all very timeconsuming, but you do get better
.
The more you do it, the more,and I have got help now as well.
Walt Bayliss (34:19):
Did you just know that you had to do it, Jane.
Had it been in the back of yourmind forever while you were
having a cup of tea in themorning thinking, gee, I just
need to sit down and startwriting.
Jane Hernon (34:30):
Yes, and I possibly will write a better book about
really how to get down and dirtywith sales, how to really,
because a lot of the girls thatI'm coming in contact with now
they're younger than me andthey're saying so how do I get
that sale over the line this,how am I going to?
(34:50):
So it's just about having theconfidence and knowing that you
can bring your customer on thatjourney.
But a lot of people don't askfor the sale.
There's ways to ask for thesale as well.
So when you get so far, theyhave this kind of pause then and
then people say do you knowwhat I'll think about it?
When people think about it,they generally don't buy.
(35:11):
Very few will come back and buyfrom you because you're not
really sure yourself theyhaven't really sold it to you,
so don't let them.
Don't let them say that to you.
Walt Bayliss (35:23):
I was gonna say get that out of the the horizon.
Jane Hernon (35:27):
Like make sure that you absolutely don't give them
anything left absolutely I uselanguage like they already have
it.
You know that it's already sold,that it's in their home, that
it's on them, whether it'sjewellery or whatever it is.
So, as I say to them, justvisualise this.
I can see a room, this is inthat corner.
The function is this, that andthe other.
(35:49):
And can you imagine when theother, the, come in from from
school, or when your mom comesto visit, that's a great chair
for her to get in and out of.
So you're really painting thepicture for people.
And then you have to ask forthe sale.
So where are we at?
Will we will, we go with thisand go with this?
And and you'll say, listen,we'll have it all.
Thanks very much, but you'vegot to.
(36:10):
You've got to ask for that sale, you've got to sell yourself
that sale, you've got to sellyourself, sell that confidence
and not, you know, a lot ofgirls are very creative, and
it's not just girls, of course,guys too, very creative, very go
ahead, but there's a littlepause and in that moment's
hesitation you lose it.
(36:34):
So it's to keep that momentumgoing, keep the keep, just just
keep on, keeping on with thesale keep communicating, keep
connecting keep communicating,keep connecting, and I see that
I can, I'm listening in and I'mtuning in and I'm thinking they
lost it actually five minutesago and now they're struggling.
So it's it's those skills toknow when to, to actually say
(36:59):
here we are and and if you arehaving objections, I would.
I would actually try and andand foresee the objection that
may occur.
Yeah, and sort it out as you'regoing part of the process.
Yes, indeed, don't let them haltthe sale with an objection at
the end.
So try and read them as you'regoing, or just say you're not
(37:22):
loving that.
Really are you?
Because here's another optionthat we could look at as well.
So read them as you're going.
Walt Bayliss (37:29):
Just don't keep on understanding them, like being
able to connect with somebodyand, as you said, reading them,
understanding their bodylanguage, creating all that.
I think from again looking backat my own sales history, jane,
there was a mentor for me thatasked me to take sales seriously
and he gave me a set of tapeswhich was again showing my abs.
(37:50):
Tapes are things with littledials in it that used to have a
tape deck in your car, but itwas a set of tapes that he gave
me and it was by Jim Rowan,called Take Charge of your Own
Life, and that led me on anincredible journey of
self-discovery.
Is it something for you?
Do you have a list?
I mean, as we talk about thesesoft skills, these people skills
, this body language, thisconnection, this listening, this
(38:11):
understanding as being the coreelement of sales, do you have
like a reading list that yourecommend to people?
Do you say, before we getstarted, here's your study guide
.
Do you have a set of guidebooksthat you've?
Jane Hernon (38:26):
I guess, developed as you've gone.
To be honest, I keep reading, Ikeep looking, I keep learning.
You can never stop.
Do I have any specifics?
Not necessarily because thereare so many out there.
Zig Ziglar is brilliant, too,with sales, but I think it
depends on the company.
(38:46):
It depends on the actual issuesthat have arisen, but certainly
on this new app.
Now I have got a whole libraryof books that I recommend
because it will really help them.
But I think the soft skills areso important, and more so in
this day and age between mentalhealth We've just come out of
(39:07):
COVID and lockdowns, and I thinkeven customers are a little bit
more fragile.
Walt Bayliss (39:13):
I think, people have.
Jane Hernon (39:15):
There's a lot more frustration out there and I
think you have to be more gentle, a little bit calmer, and just
let people take it at their ownpace.
But I do think readingsomeone's body language and
listening, as I was saying,listen to hear, not just listen
to You've got to really listento hear what they're saying so
(39:36):
that you can listen.
Walt Bayliss (39:38):
Otherwise you're never going to be able to make
that transaction happen unlessyou've built the trust and the
communication and connectionalong the way.
Jane Hernon (39:46):
That's right, and they will tell you so much if
you listen to them.
So it'll eliminate a lot of andthat's where a lot of the trust
is built, because you canmirror back to them and say just
let me see, did I hear youcorrectly?
You want x or y?
Is that correct?
Or you're not too keen on suchand such?
So we're not going to go downthat road.
(40:06):
We're going to take that path.
Do you feel comfortable withthat?
It's about the language thatyou use and that you feel god,
she's really getting me here.
So that will lead on and thatwill build the rapport with them
.
Walt Bayliss (40:18):
Amazing, amazing.
Well, guys, as we hear, there'sa path to take for anybody
that's looking to get ahead insales, and what an amazing
career that you can open thedoors with there as well.
Jane, I think as we look around, certainly here in Australia,
there's never a shortage ofopportunities in the retail
space.
There always seems to bepositions available and hiring.
It's actually an incrediblepath that somebody can get
(40:42):
started in with a relativelyshallow resume, as in they maybe
just be a nice person, and thatalone can get you into the door
.
That can lead to internationaltravel, that can create amazing
opportunities and an incrediblecareer along the way.
So there's a path to walk and,guys, if you're struggling with
sales, if you're in a businessenvironment, tapping into some
(41:04):
of the resources, like Jane hasrecommended there, and the app
coming out, this is somethingthat is a learnable skill.
So, as we as business owners,as entrepreneurs, as startup
founders, as we look at all ofthe different skills that are
available and required for us tosucceed out there in business,
sales and the connection withpeople is absolutely the
(41:25):
dominant number one thing thatyou should be focused on to be
able to grow anything, andthat's growing teams, as James
was talking about before, havingthat empathy and understanding
with your team and creating thatculture and, of course, that
same connection with customersas well.
Jane, thank you so much for theopportunity to come in and hear
from your perspective how thingshave come across.
I love everything that you'regetting out there.
(41:46):
I'm also.
I love the fact that now youknow, in that second part of
your career you've createdanother company, the
janehernoncoaching.
com, where you've now takingpeople under your wing and
helping them create that nextera.
I think that's amazing.
So thank you for that, andreally it's just a pleasure.
What do we see next for you?
Your next six to 12 months I'msure is going to be an active
(42:11):
one.
What do you see on?
Jane Hernon (42:12):
the horizon for yourself.
Some people have challenged meactually to write a book on some
of my posts that I have beenposting, and I've really ramped
up my posting, as you can see,on LinkedIn, and I'm just loving
that and the connection thatthat LinkedIn family has been
fantastic for me and to me.
So I just want to give peopleas great value as I possibly can
(42:35):
, because even if it's a Mondaymorning and someone is stuck and
they're going into a littlesales meeting, just pop in on
one of my posts or go back overand have a look and see, because
there's a lot of value in there.
The other thing I'm developing,as I was saying to you, is an
app with courses on it, so veryshort courses to longer courses,
and then, of course, you canalways connect with me if you
(42:57):
want a one-on-one.
So I will possibly have a book,but it'll take maybe another 18
months or so, but the app is inthe pipeline for the next couple
of months.
Walt Bayliss (43:06):
Amazing.
We look forward to it coming upWell.
Thank you guys and Jane, Iappreciate your time and energy
there and everyone again talkingabout being a consistent
learner.
Your time and energy there andeveryone Again, I'm talking
about being a consistent learner.
Looking at Jane's educationthere, her last qualification
was just 12, 18 months ago,still pushing that boundary of
continuous learning and creatingthose skills.
So tap in and see how far youcan take yourself.
(43:27):
Jane, thank you so much foryour time.
I appreciate you and whatyou've achieved and thank you
for making that available topeople and helping that next
generation of salespeople comingforward and achieving great
things as well.
Ladies and gentlemen, janeHernon and we look forward to
seeing what's coming next foryou.
Thanks, jane.
Jane Hernon (43:42):
Thank you, Walsh.
Thank you.
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