Ever felt like you're on the brink of discovering your true calling, only to shy away from the leap? Mary Henderson, a personal branding virtuoso, joins us to narrate her transformative odyssey from the musical arts to the entrepreneurial stage, proving that the seeds of our greatest achievements lie within our inherent gifts. Together, we unwrap the significance of personal branding not as a tool for fame, but as a beacon of credibility and authenticity that illuminates your individual 'soul print.'
This episode isn't just about success stories; it's a heartfelt communion about the raw essence of entrepreneurship. I candidly share the emotional rollercoaster of founding three startups, the precious currency of wisdom gleaned from each venture, and the unbreakable camaraderie that forms amongst us entrepreneurs. We delve into burnout, mental health, and the life-affirming shift from chasing profits to pursuing purpose, with Mary bringing to light how philosophical wisdom can provide a compass beyond the self-help shelf.
As we peel back the layers of personal evolution, I open up about my devotion to coaching, the diverse wisdom of ancient texts, and the art of journaling as a means to unearth one's authentic voice. Mary and I touch on the strategic use of platforms like LinkedIn to connect with those who truly resonate with your message. If you're ready to embrace the full spectrum of your potential and leave a mark that's unequivocally you, this conversation is your clarion call.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Walt Bayliss (00:02):
Ladies and gentlemen, thank you so much for
joining me here on the Sales,startups and Side Hustles
podcast as we launch and talk toentrepreneurs.
We talk to founders, we talk tostartup entrepreneurs and
hustlers those who are makingincredible things happen around
the world and, to that end, wehave a special guest today who
is going to rock your world.
Her story is incredible, fromretail sales management all the
(00:24):
way through to startingmagazines, subscriber
newsletters with tens ofthousands of followers.
She's one of LinkedIn's majorinfluencers, with over 70,000
people following her every moveon LinkedIn.
She's a personal brandingspecialist.
She has come from being thestage queen and now is the
founder and director of her owncompany.
She is none other than MaryHenderson, and it is a huge
(00:46):
pleasure to have you on the show, Mary.
Thank you so much for joiningus.
Mary Henderson (00:49):
Oh, my God, what an introduction, but I'm
actually really excited to behere myself.
So you know, it works both ways.
Walt Bayliss (00:57):
It's so great to have you Now.
I've been doing a little bit ofresearch on you and finding out
you're no stranger to podcasts.
You've been on podcasts, you'vebeen on YouTube interviews.
You've been on stages allaround the world.
How did this all happen for you?
Actually, let me start with abetter question.
You went from straight out ofschool.
You went down the musical artstheater path.
(01:17):
I read somewhere that yourparents weren't happy about that
, so you challenged that.
You broke out of it.
You went into psychology, yougot into retail and management
and sales and territorymanagement, and now you run
business coaching andprofessional branding for
businesses and entrepreneursaround the world.
This seems like an incrediblejourney.
How did you go from sort of outof school and in that space and
(01:38):
getting into then sales andbusiness and all of those kinds
of territories?
Mary Henderson (01:43):
I'm going to start the question back to front
you know, and the reason I'mgoing to do that because I think
it'll put everything intocontext Back to front is what do
I stand for today and what Istand for today is making sure
that I teach people how topursue and fulfill their purpose
and mission.
That is my absolute stance.
So it's amazing when you lookback to front, because then you
(02:08):
start to realize and you connectall the dots and you're like
everything was divinelyorchestrated for me to actually
be doing what I'm doing today.
So my life started with myparents, who are migrants, and I
grew up in a very working classfamily.
My parents believed that, youknow, that hard work and getting
(02:32):
a degree was the only way tosuccess.
But I was gifted, you know, Ihad a voice.
I was very talented at singing.
My parents invested a lot oftime and money in all of the
performing arts.
You know, things that I wantedto be involved in and I mean I
went a long way.
But when it came, you know thatmoment when I had to choose my
(02:53):
direction and my path in life, Isaid to my parents I want to go
to the College of Arts, it'sall I want to do.
My mum was like, are youkidding?
Like we didn't migrate toAustralia for you to be standing
on a stage and singing?
Like that's not a career.
You need to be a doctor or alawyer or an architect.
That's a career.
And as a 16-year-old I thought,oh my God, my dreams are
(03:16):
crushed.
And that was a really massive.
That was actually trauma for meand that's how I received that
messaging which, by the way, Icarried that trauma for a very
long time because I didn't knowhow to process it.
But the thing is well that noneof that went away, because,
looking back now, I don't thinkI was ever meant to be a singer.
(03:40):
What I believe I was meant to dowas understand the power of
voice, and this is really suchthe.
This is the epicenter of thework that I do.
So it's ironic that, because Isay to people understand what
your gift is and channel thatany way you can, the talent can
(04:00):
change.
Don't worry about the talent,the talent's always.
You can apply the gift to anytalent, but it's the gift that I
think we need to hold on to andwe need to nurture.
So that's kind of the backdrop.
As to how.
I start my journey as a on stage, but nothing's changed.
The voice is still theepicenter of what I do.
Walt Bayliss (04:19):
I love that and you can see that my business
partner, my friend, gave me the,gave me this neon sign that
forms my back in there, whichjust says you have magic in you.
It's the message I think thatyou're resonating right now,
which is just so music to myears.
Tell me about the gift.
When you're talking to anentrepreneur you just mentioned
there, you have the gift.
The talent can change, but thegift stays with you.
(04:42):
Tell me about that.
What's your thoughts there?
Change?
Mary Henderson (04:45):
but the gift stays with you.
Tell me about that.
What's your thoughts there?
I think that we as a societyhave not been taught from the
school system how to unpack ournatural state of being.
We're all looking for answersoutside of us.
We're all looking to be likesomebody else, to aspire to be
like somebody else.
And whilst I love the Gary V's,the Oprah's, all of the
(05:07):
influencers, I like to watchthem, I don't want to be them,
but so many people want to belike that, and that is because
we've never been taught how totake a step back, go inside and
ask some pretty deep questionswho am I?
What are my natural gifts?
What do I look like in mynatural state of being?
(05:27):
What do I love?
What am I passionate about?
What am I good at?
And I think that we have to stoplooking outside and stop going
inside, because when I work withpeople, that's my first stop.
I make people look atthemselves and love themselves.
This is all I've got.
This is your inventory.
I can't help you be like Oprah.
(05:50):
I don't know what Oprah'snatural state of beingness is.
I don't know what her gifts are, her talents, are her core
values, her abilities, herattributes, her traits.
I have no idea, but I know whatyou have and that's what we
have to work with and we have tofall in love with that.
I have no idea, but I know whatyou have and that's what we
have to work with and we have tofall in love with that.
I call that the soul print.
That's what I call that.
Walt Bayliss (06:10):
Wow, amazing, amazing.
I think there's so many peopleyou and I are doing the same
work with entrepreneurs helpingthem understand that this gift
that you're mentioning issomething that they have.
It's unique to them, it'ssomething that nobody else can
do the way that they do it, andit's that gift that we want to
explore with entrepreneurs andhelp people understand what
(06:30):
makes it.
How do you work with peoplethat are finding that concept
hard?
For so many years they've beenin the same light as yourself,
as we just mentioned.
They've been beaten in theacademic path that you're either
a doctor, a lawyer or a failure.
As Jay Shetty said, you have tobe one of those academic
pathways.
You have to get a job.
You have to march the nine tofive line.
(06:53):
What do you say to people thatare tired of that but they don't
know?
Mary Henderson (06:59):
what to do.
I try and deconstruct societalideologies as much as possible
and and use the language toshare that knowledge with people
.
It's almost like I want to pullthe wool over your, out of your
eyes, and make you see who youtruly are.
And I think that, because we'vebeen brainwashed to believe
(07:23):
certain things, to fear certainthings, our society has done an
amazing job at making most of usfollow this pathway that
essentially ends in a dead end.
But the thing is, walt, that Iwant to say this and you
probably will totally resonatewith this I find it ironic that
and you know this because youspeak to entrepreneurs they all
(07:46):
kind of have the same ideas of,when it comes to fear, what if
it doesn't work out?
What if I don't get clients?
What if I fail?
What if?
What if?
And I find it amazing, nomatter who I work with, what
religion they come from, whatcolor their skin is, what part
of the world they're from, whatis their first language, that
(08:08):
ideology and that mindset is thesame across the board.
Now I always say to my clientsthat's 99% of the world are
thinking exactly like you.
Now we have to question that andsay that's interesting.
Why are the 1% not thinkinglike that?
You're looking over here, the1% are looking over here.
(08:32):
So you've got to question that.
You have to ask yourself whatare the 1% thinking that the 99%
are not thinking?
Well, let me tell you, it'svery easy.
The 1% have challenged societalideologies.
They haven't bought into thesystems that we've bought into.
Go to school, get an education.
(08:53):
You get a degree, go touniversity.
You're going to be a goodlittle girl, a great citizen,
and I'm saying yes, but I don'treally want to be a part of that
system, because that system Ihaven't really seen how it's
served.
The majority of the population,everyone's still frustrated.
People are not fulfilled,they're overweight, they're
(09:15):
unhealthy, they're losing theirjob, they can't get a new job.
There's all these problems.
Walt Bayliss (09:20):
They hate their job.
Mary Henderson (09:20):
So I'm saying, yes, they hate their job and
they're in a job for the sake ofoh, I've got bills, I've got a
family, blah, blah, blah.
All the same reasons again.
So for me, when I can challengesocietal ideologies and feel
really comfortable doing that,I'm already detached from the
99% because I'm going through aprocess of unlearning what I've
(09:43):
learned and we have to getcomfortable with that.
Walt Bayliss (09:46):
So I think, like looking at your academic history
there, when you were studying amajor in psychology at uni, and
talking now about the fear thatis prevalent in every
entrepreneur and everynon-entrepreneur, in every human
, let's go with that.
There's those fundamental fearsof am I going to be good enough
(10:07):
?
Am I going to make it?
What happens if?
How do you think entrepreneursdeal with that differently than
I guess people who are notwilling to look at those options
?
Mary Henderson (10:20):
Well, I think that there's two types of
entrepreneurs.
First and foremost, there's thepeople that have got side
hustles, that call themselvesentrepreneurs, and that, to me,
is not entrepreneurship.
Then there's the entrepreneurswho are the risk takers, who say
you know what?
I'm prepared to lose everythingand fail as much as I possibly
can, but know that I actuallypursued my path.
(10:40):
That's the entrepreneur thatI'm talking to heart.
That's the entrepreneur thatI'm talking to, because the
thing is that if we don't havethat notion that I can fail
abysmally and I can loseeverything, but I'm okay with
that, that's the start of thejourney for entrepreneurship.
From my standpoint and I'vebeen down this is my third
startup.
I've had two tech startupsbefore that and that was my
(11:03):
ideology.
It was like I'm just going to,I didn't care if I fail and I
didn't care if I lose everything, but I need to do this.
Walt Bayliss (11:10):
Not trying is actually failing more.
Mary Henderson (11:13):
Exactly, that's exactly right.
But the thing is that I feelthat with entrepreneurs, that
the true entrepreneurs, we kindof think like that.
You know and we do.
We're risk takers, we're okaywith being uncomfortable, and
it's not foreign to me.
I'm not afraid of failure, Idon't care what people say.
I am here to fulfill my purposeand mission.
(11:34):
But I also believe, Walt, thatentrepreneurs need to belong to
other people like us, so we canfeed off one another, support
one another, advocate for oneanother, because I don't think
that.
I think that doingentrepreneurship on your own is
very, very dangerous and it'svery, very lonely, and so even
just doing these type of podcasttype of scenarios is very
(11:57):
powerful, because here we are,you and I, for the next 35
minutes, bouncing off oneanother, you know, building
relationships, collaborating insome shape or form, but I'm
never going to forget you.
You're always going to be atthe back of my mind or front of
mine or top of mine, you know,and vice versa.
So I feel that with trueentrepreneurship, we do need to
(12:17):
find a place that we can belongto, to actually just bounce off
ideas, because it is a lonelyworld when you go down the true
path of entrepreneurship.
Walt Bayliss (12:28):
So it's interesting.
You know we're talking aboutthe numbers there.
We're saying you know the 1%,the 99%, and looking at that
lonely journey, even justtapping into resources like this
, getting hold of podcasts,being a subscriber to your
newsletters which,congratulations, by the way
looks incredible.
The being connected withinformation from external
sources is such an importantpiece because you genuinely do
(12:50):
feel like you're on your own.
I've done the mental strugglething.
You know we had a business gounder and nearly cost me my life
and my family.
You know a father and a husband.
That was a terrible, terribletime, and that mental health
space for entrepreneurs is adangerous one.
But for anybody that'slistening, if you're on the
treadmill or you're in the car,the actual community of
entrepreneurs are connected by aI don't know an energy.
(13:14):
Even if you're not in amembership, even if you're not
standing next to each other in acoffee shop, there's an energy
between us that alwaysrecognizes who you are, what
you're doing, how you'recreating and tapping into.
That, I think, is a huge thing.
So, Mary, as you're developingthis out and if I can dive into
the newsletter just for a second, wow, for a start.
(13:35):
In today's day and age, we'veall got too many things that
we're subscribed to.
There's too much notificationsin your inbox and on your phone
to build a newsletter up tonearly 10,000 subscribers as I'm
recording this and you're onlythree episodes in which is
incredible Not only that to have70,000 people following you on
LinkedIn what you're creatingthere as a community and you're
(13:56):
leading that community in anincredible way.
How are you writing that?
How are you connecting withyour audience using what you're
doing with your Mary Hendersoncoaching and putting that into a
digestible format?
What's driving you to have thatvoice into the community?
Mary Henderson (14:15):
I decided this year, Walt, that I was sick and
tired of just noise, theseself-proclaimed influences, and
especially on LinkedIn.
Actually, it's the same thingover and over again rinse and
repeat do this to get that, dothis to get that, and it's all
based on an individualisedexperience, which I totally
(14:38):
appreciate, but to me, well, youknow, being a calling yourself
an entrepreneur and sellingLinkedIn services to me is not
entrepreneurship, that's just ajob.
You know, being a callingyourself an entrepreneur and
selling LinkedIn services to meis not entrepreneurship, that's
just a job, you know.
So what I wanted to do thisyear was I wanted to put the
light on wisdom.
That's where I'm going.
I want to.
(14:58):
I want to make people see thatthey are sitting on a gold mine
called wisdom currency.
That is the highest form ofcurrency that exists in the
world.
Knowledge and information isnot currency.
It's just filling up a lot ofempty holes in your soul.
But if you don't understandthat knowledge and you haven't
(15:20):
experienced that knowledge, whatis it?
It's just more noise right.
It's just being able toarticulate somebody else's
experience and somebody else'svoice through your words, but
really you're copying andpasting.
No, what I want is I want toshow people.
Look, I'm going to put a lighton wisdom, and everything that I
(15:42):
share with you comes from thatplace.
It doesn't come from a place ofreading two or three books,
attending a weekend seminar andgetting a certification and
calling myself an expert.
I don't even call myself anexpert.
I call myself a specialist, butI don't call myself an expert.
Why?
Because I'm a student of life,I'm always, always learning.
(16:04):
So wisdom is very interestingbecause there's two layers of
wisdom from where I stand.
The first layer is yourexperienced knowledge and skill
set okay, and that's yourprofessional background.
So when you've experienced thatknowledge and you understand
that knowledge, that converts towisdom.
(16:25):
That's one layer.
But then there's another layerand that's what I call your
universal principles.
This is your hero's journey.
This is you going in andexperiencing life as you used
the word beautifully beforeenergetically.
This is a whole different layerof wisdom, because it doesn't
come from a book, it comes justfrom being, and when you
(16:47):
converge those two together youcan bring a new layer of
knowledge to the table thatpeople can take, and I'm not
pushing my ideology on anyone.
I'm just saying here's adifferent perspective and this
is my perspective on anyone.
I'm just saying here's adifferent perspective and this
is my perspective.
This is how I've experienced it, because I don't want to fit in
(17:08):
to what everybody else is doing.
I'm not interested in that.
I don't need the vanity metrics, I don't need the million
followers to validate who I am.
I already know who I am and Ithink that's the starting point
and what I say to all my clientsif you don't show up as knowing
that you're already anauthority, then chasing and
(17:29):
being seen as an authority isvery different to showing up and
saying I'm already theauthority, I don't need the
validation.
You can take it or you canleave it, because everything I
give you is from my experience.
So that newsletter that you'rereading is actually a
transcription of my weekly liveshow, which is on LinkedIn,
(17:50):
which I stream on LinkedIn, andI use that same messaging, you
know, in voice and in a writtenformat.
Again, I'm going to just saythis because this is so powerful
the two most powerfulinstruments that we have been
given as humans is our voice andour hands.
We write with our hands.
(18:11):
We speak with our voice.
That's energetically highlycharged, and how we use it is
entirely up to us.
So I've chosen to use my twoinstruments, you know,
simultaneously and usingmessaging.
That is 100% aligned.
Walt Bayliss (18:28):
So, as people are coming to you, Mary, so you're a
leader.
I'm going to absolutely usethat word.
Well, you are a leader inhelping, specifically, coaches
and consultants find their voice, find their messaging and find
their branding.
As people are coming to you, doyou often have to.
Do you help them find that, ordo they already know it and then
(18:52):
they need you to help thembroadcast it in a larger forum?
Mary Henderson (18:56):
Most people that I work with have no idea that
they're already sitting on agold mine and I show people.
I say here's let's convert allof your experience into hours
and let's multiply that by $100an hour.
Let's just give it a value.
You're already sitting on three$4 million worth of
intellectual currency already.
That's the starting point whenI think I help a lot of people
(19:20):
99.99% of the people I work withis I can organize all of their
life experience professional andpersonal and merge that
together to create a solution.
And because I come from asoftware, a tech background and
I owned my own software companyfor many years, I understand how
(19:42):
to create data points.
I understand frameworking.
My company built algorithms.
I get how to think like that.
So for me, organizing thatinformation is so critical,
because then we arrive at thecomplex problem that you can
solve and we organize thatinformation into a solution that
(20:03):
can be delivered in multipledifferent ways.
Walt Bayliss (20:06):
Nice, I like it.
So one of the things that yousaid there, Mary, was that you
said if you don't show up as anauthority, it's never going to
be something that you can chaseand achieve.
How do you work with peoplethat say, yeah, but Mary, I'm
not really sure if I am anauthority?
Mary Henderson (20:23):
I think that the thing that I try and get across
to people is that if you havethat attitude that I don't know
if I'm an authority, well, firstof all, let me just backtrack.
First of all, I don't work withpeople that are not industry
experts.
So that's the first thing.
So there's no one that I workwith will ever say that, because
they're already come from abackground where they can prove
(20:47):
to me that they are an industryexpert.
For me, well, it's toodifficult to package somebody
that wants to be famous forbeing famous, so that's not my
tribe at all.
So I do work only with industryexperts.
That's the first thing.
The second thing is that whenpeople get really freaked out
because they have to putthemselves out there, they
(21:08):
already know that that's whatthey're in for.
Otherwise, I can't.
The only other way that you cangenerate leads and sales is
going down the pay to play path.
So which one is it?
You want to spend 10 grand andget leads and never put yourself
out there, or do you want tolearn how to actually start a
dialogue with your targetaudience, how to pull them in?
(21:29):
Learn, you know desire-basedmarketing strategies.
You know become a brilliantmarketer, not a brilliant
salesperson.
Sales is the effect of brilliantmarketing.
So I try and and I think thatwith me, because I'm an
end-to-end solution and we wrapan entire sales and marketing
strategy around their area ofspecialization I try and make it
(21:51):
as easy as possible for peopleto just get really comfortable
in putting themselves out there,and I think that once you get a
taste of it and you can seethat it's going down the right
path, I think that a lot ofpeople just feel like, yep, this
is where I want to be.
I do want, because I thinkyou've got to decide first and
foremost do I want to createimpact?
(22:13):
Do I want to bring my area ofspecialization into the world
and serve on a mass scale, or doI want to be super, super,
super tight and little, and thenI'm not going to be the right
person for you, because I dopromote the idea of you've got
to use your voice and you've gotto use your hands.
Walt Bayliss (22:32):
I love it.
So, as you mentioned, there'stwo different types of
entrepreneurs and you mentionedyour ideal audience are not the
side hustles on the weekend, youknow, selling stuff on eBay
kind of kind of people.
Your, your, your clients arethe ones that are starting
something big and making and youused a really important word
there impact.
And I feel like I feel likethis is the defining moment for
(22:54):
an entrepreneur that says I wantto do this for the rest of my
life.
This is the thing.
Whatever that thing is, this isthe thing that I just have been
in my soul trying to find, asyou called it, your soul print
before.
Do you see that transformationin entrepreneurs and let me load
that question up a little bit Ithink a lot of people start up
(23:17):
with the sell stuff on eBay onthe weekends kind of stuff, or
whatever they do to get thatinitial bug, that traction, or
whatever it is, to pay some,bring some money in.
There's a, there's a moment,there's a pivotal moment where
that belief goes whoa, this.
Do you see that happen as atransformation with, with people
in your group?
Mary Henderson (23:37):
I think that there are two again, there's
also another layer with thiswhole entrepreneurship.
You know, individual.
There's the entrepreneur that'schasing success and then
there's the entrepreneur who'schasing their purpose and
mission.
And they're two differententrepreneurs.
One is chasing either a quickfix, let's make a buck.
You know, like I'm on the way,you know I'm going to create
(23:58):
success, I'm going to do what Ineed to do Scale, sell, move on.
But then there's the other onethat says I am on a mission, I
must pursue this purpose andthis mission, because this is my
sole print.
I must do this, that's my job.
Completely different game.
And this is me.
(24:18):
You know, I am on a mission,you know, this is why I talk
about the wisdom currency somuch.
This is new language, Walt.
You know, when I talk aboutwisdom currency, people are like
oh yeah, that's nice.
And I'm like do you actuallyunderstand what I'm saying?
Like, you know, and I thinkthat we are heading into the
wisdom economy, we will getthere.
There's no doubt about that,because information will be just
(24:40):
it's too much to fathom All thedifferent ideologies, the
different angles, do this, dothis and nothing works.
So I'm saying, look, push thataside.
It's all lovely and great, butyou've got to come from a place.
That's why I say you've got tostart with knowing you're an
authority, first and foremost,because then you make the
decision Am I chasing a job, amI creating a job for myself, am
(25:06):
I chasing success or am Ichasing purpose and mission?
And there's three differenttypes of people, and typically
for me it's the purpose andmission.
Walt Bayliss (25:15):
So, on this and again, focusing on your
expertise there, which again, Iuse the word leader very, very
easily Focusing on the peoplethat have a purpose and a
mission, this is what I want todo for the rest of my life.
They're coming to you sayinghelp me define this.
Now, one of the things that I'mreally super impressed with,
Mary, is that you are a personalbranding expert and nobody does
(25:37):
it better than you.
Honestly, when I'm doing myresearch for podcast guests, for
people coming on the show,finding your personal brand was
as easy as drinking a glass ofwater.
Your personal branding is rich.
It's on every platform.
Your message is consistent.
You've led the way in, I guess,what you're working with people
(25:59):
to teach.
So this might seem like astupid question, but I'm going
to ask you why is personalbranding important?
Mary Henderson (26:09):
I think when I think of personal branding, it's
not from the standpoint of howfamous am I going to be on a
social media platform?
I think for me, again, it comesback to that knowing that I'm
already the authority and I wantpeople.
I want to be able to servepeople and provide people my
(26:32):
knowledge and my wisdom to solvea problem that they may be
experiencing.
So, from my standpoint, itactually has nothing to do with
fame.
It's just that I, Mary, am thebusiness to begin with, and I,
Mary, bring 23 years ofknowledge, wisdom, skill set,
(26:52):
abilities to the table, and I,Mary, know how to package you
inside out, literally inside out, and that, for me, is my
definition of personal brandingand we spoke about this before
but it's knowing who I am in mynatural state of being, because
(27:12):
authenticity is that.
How many personal brandingexperts are on social media
saying you have to be authentic?
How can I be authentic?
I'm already authentic.
Have you not checked that?
Everyone's got their ownauthentic DNA print?
Like, what are you talkingabout?
So I'm very pragmatic, I'm verylogical, but I'm also very
open-minded.
(27:33):
I understand that.
You know that personal brandingcan seem a little like fake it
till you make it type of aconcept.
But I don't see it from thatperspective.
I see it as how do I packageyou as a product?
How do you actually putyourself out there and pull the
(27:53):
right audience in that say, Ineed Walt, I've got to speak to
him because he's got exactlywhat I want.
I'm connecting with him on amuch, much, much deeper layer.
So personal branding on its ownis meaningless Personal branding
when you connect it with whatyou do, who you can serve and
(28:14):
what you can absolutely promise,based on outcomes, results and
transformation.
Now you're talking to me.
Now you've got breadth anddepth.
So I think that we've got tostop this ideology around
personal branding that, oh, youneed a personal brand on
LinkedIn.
You actually don't need apersonal brand on LinkedIn.
What you need is brilliantmessaging on LinkedIn to be seen
(28:37):
as the go-to brand for thatarea of specialization.
That's pretty simple and Ithink that that's what we've got
to focus on, rather than, youknow, investing in tone and
voice and colors and brandingand logos.
All of that's important, but ifyour messaging is out of
alignment, good luck.
Walt Bayliss (28:58):
You'll never break through.
I think the, I think theconcept of a personal brand has
been bastardized, to use abetter word.
People, people have sold apersonal branding hack and it's,
you know, a new logo and aheadshot and a whatever that's.
That's not what you're talkingabout.
You're talking about genuinelyfinding your method of
(29:18):
authentically being the voice inthe space that you are and to
the people that might say well,why do I need that?
Here's the thing.
If you want to stay small youdon't, really you don't If you
just want to keep plugging awayat what you're doing, then you
don't need a personal brand.
But if you genuinely want totake that level up, if you want
(29:38):
to hit that mission and purpose,then you're going to need to be
seen in the marketplace theright way.
Now, if you're an introvert,right.
If you're the I run a softwarecompany as well.
So if you're the, you know Ijust want to code all day and
you know that kind of stuff.
If you're the business ownerand that's your space, there's
going to be a day when you'regoing to need to get publicity
if you truly want that coverage,and that's why this personal
(30:00):
branding message is such animportant thing.
So, Mary, as people are comingin and again I want to talk to
the coaches and the consultantsjust for a moment so people who
own a business and want to makean impact via the delivery of
coaching and consulting, whichis your key audience there.
When they're coming intopersonal branding, how do they
make sure that they're definingthemselves in a crowded
(30:23):
marketplace?
How do they make sure that theyare the one that people see and
say I want to work with you?
Mary Henderson (30:28):
Well, it comes back to what we were saying
before.
It's really understanding whoam I, in my natural state of
being, in fact, Walt.
We don't even start at personalbranding first, because
personal branding is actuallythe effect of the solution that
they bring to the table.
It's actually understanding thecomplex problem that I can
solve first and foremost, andthen understanding what does
(30:51):
that solution actually look likeand then how can I solve who
needs this problem solved?
So I think that is actually thefirst step.
So working on personal branding, as in, that's going to get
eyeballs on my content.
No, that's actually not thetruth.
That personal branding at avery high level is just branding
(31:15):
Okay, my look, my feel, my tone, my voice.
So that's not going to get youanywhere.
But we have to actually startat understanding what is the
complex problem I can solve andwhat does that look like as a
solution and who needs thatsolution solved.
The personal branding is overand above that.
That's the next layer abovethat, because the next layer
(31:37):
above that is okay.
So let's unpack all of theattributes that make up you
unapologetically.
You, you know your core, yourcore traits, your persona, your
core values.
I mean, what about your brandstory, your proposition, all of
that wraps around your coreoffering.
A lot of people say, oh, I knowwhat my values are.
(32:01):
My values are love and trust.
And I say to people well,actually it's not love and trust
, because you don't loveyourself and you don't trust
yourself, so that's not yourcore value.
You might think it is, but youdon't live by those values.
My core values are truth andfreedom.
I am a truth and a freedomfighter.
(32:21):
Everything in my content youwill feel that Everything I
produce, every podcast I'm onyou can see the language I use
all aligns with my core value,and this, for me, is fundamental
, absolutely critical.
You read my brand story.
You went to my website.
It's 100% aligned to ourconversation that we're having
(32:41):
right now.
So I think that there's a lotof moving parts that need to be
glued together and people want a$99 solution and they want to
try and figure it out forthemselves, which there's
nothing wrong with that.
It's just that if you want tobe seen as the go-to person, you
have to understand how to glueit all together so you can be
(33:04):
seen as the go-to expert.
And then, and only then, afteryou've defined the branding,
then, and only then can youcreate a whole messaging
campaign.
Your content strategy et ceteracannot be done without those
two moving parts implementedfirst.
Walt Bayliss (33:20):
For sure, for sure .
I was reading somewhere thatsomebody said and they defined
brand better than anybody elseI've ever heard and they said
brand is what people say aboutyou when you're not in the room.
Mary Henderson (33:32):
Yes.
Walt Bayliss (33:32):
I think that's so defining that, creating that.
You can create thatconversation, which I think is
really great.
Mary, can I wind back a littlebit?
Can I go to that first businessthat was yours?
So, after you worked withBelkin, you went to sales
management and then you launchedyour own digital marketing
agency.
What was the catalyst?
(33:53):
What made you go?
That's it.
I'm out.
I'm ready to go back.
Mary Henderson (33:57):
I'm taking the world by myself actually, before
I started my digital agency, Iactually started another startup
and that was being a directcompetitor to belkin so when I
left.
This was actually an amazingstory because I was in belkin, I
was the.
I mean, I converted thatbusiness from a 4 million to a
54 million dollar business in 48months.
(34:19):
It was unreal.
So I, just I was on fire, and soI had a meeting and I knew I
could see so many opportunitiesthat were missing in that
business.
And so I sat with the presidentof our company, who was based
out in California, and I said Ihave got a solution to your
problem.
(34:39):
You know, like here's what I'mthinking.
I did a whole presentation.
He loved it.
He said let's do a rollout,let's trial this, let's see what
happens.
And I said to him I want topartner with you, I want to run
this business in your businessand I want to head it up.
I want to, I want to do it withyou and anyway, so various
things happen and it didn'teventuate.
(35:00):
And then I just remembersitting one day and what?
No, actually what happened isthat I was travelling so much, I
mean, like literally, I was ona plane twice a week, you know
international travel, and it wasa lot.
And I remember waking up thisone morning and I had just blood
pouring out of my eyes, my nose, my mouth.
(35:21):
It was really scary, and so myhusband called the ambulance.
They came in.
I thought I was dying.
I'm like am I dying, am I dying?
And I just had a burst vesselin my nose.
But what happened is that thatkind of put me out for a whole
week and I just realized in thatmoment I've got to change my
life.
(35:41):
This is not what I want to dofor the rest of my life.
And I put in my resignation andI knew that I had an opportunity
that I was going to just go for.
I didn't know how I was goingto do it.
I didn't know.
I had no idea.
I just resigned.
And then I was like okay, whatam I going to do?
I'm going to take on Belkin.
I'm going to actually be theircompetitor.
So, thankfully, I had somereally awesome connections in
(36:05):
retail, some of Australia'slargest retailers, and I sat
down with the buyers and I saidlisten, I want to create your
own exclusive tech peripheralrange.
We're going to brand it, I'mgoing to give it exclusively to
you.
Let me design it, let me, youknow, create it all and let's go
for it.
And they just bought into it.
They were like, yeah, let's doit.
So I did a major rollout in allMaya stores right across
(36:28):
Australia and my laptop bagswere the number one best-selling
laptop bags.
I mean, it was just crazy thatjust happened so quickly.
And then they had a change ofmanagement and a change of
buyers.
And then they were like no, wedon't want your products, we're
going to stick with you knowthese?
And I was just like okay.
And then the next logical stepwas for me to start my digital
(36:50):
agency specialising specificallyin software, and again, I
actually found a gap in theacademic sector and I just went
after that.
I had no idea about software,by the way, nothing at all.
I just saw an opportunity and Ijust went for it, and that was
the second startup which I hadfor seven years.
Walt Bayliss (37:09):
Amazing and then.
So you got bought out or youhad a merger with that.
Mary Henderson (37:13):
I had a merger.
I had a merger with my secondcompany and that released me.
So January 2012,.
I took an entire year off.
Walt Bayliss (37:22):
Wow.
Mary Henderson (37:23):
It was a sabbatical, I needed that.
I really fell rock bottom, liketo the bottom of the bottom.
I mean, I was really in a likemy mental health was really,
really, really bad.
Was it burnout, massive burnout,but also well, I just realized
that that's not my purpose andmission.
(37:43):
That's my point.
So if you don't understand whatyour purpose and mission is,
you're going to hit rock bottomall the time, because the soul
wants you to listen.
And so I took 12 months off andI had a.
My mentor was a professor inphilosophy at Oxford University.
He was amazing and he would bethe person that would change my
(38:06):
life, like literally, and sothat sabbatical was well and
truly needed.
Walt Bayliss (38:12):
If it's okay with you, I want to dig a little bit
deeper there because, again, themental health of entrepreneurs
is something that I'm verypassionate about as well, and
along with I'm just like ringinga bell every time you're
talking, along with the freedomfighter thing.
For me it's like creating thelife of freedom for yourself
Just before we jump off.
And, if it's okay with you, youmentioned your mentor in this
(38:35):
time was an Oxford professor inpsychology Philosophy sorry, the
wrong P philosophy.
Once somebody told me that adegree in philosophy allows you
to think deep thoughts aboutbeing unemployed.
But how did somebody who hasthat academic background in
philosophy, how did they helpyou find your purpose in that
(38:59):
time?
Mary Henderson (39:01):
The thing about philosophy, especially when
you're dealing with someone atthe level that I had the
privilege of working withimagine somebody that has spent
13 years 30Ks down in theVatican vault you think about
the knowledge and the wisdomthat that guy knows, that you
and I don't know.
So that's the first thing.
So for me, I was very attractedto that.
(39:23):
I'm not into self-help BS LikeI'm just not interested in that
at all, because I feel thatself-help is a downward spiral.
Yes, it can open the door, butit's never a solution.
So I needed to open my mind.
I've always been a big thinker,I've always been a deep thinker,
and I just needed somebody tohelp guide me down that path,
(39:45):
because I couldn't make sensewith a lot of things that I
already kind of intuitively knew.
And so when Mark took me onthis journey, it wasn't about
Mark saying do this, read this,go here.
It was about exploring it foryourself.
And this is the differencebetween philosophy and self-help
(40:09):
some of the things that Ilearned 10 years ago and the
wisdom, some of the things thatI learned back then, would you
believe, I've only justexperienced wow this was the
thing, because he said I can'ttell you how to receive this
information and experience it.
You actually have to experienceit for yourself, and I can't
(40:31):
even tell you when you're goingto experience it.
But he said what I can tell you, and this was the big drumroll
moment for me.
He said what I can tell you isthat everything that you have
experienced in your life good,bad, ugly, high, low, trauma,
whatever don't think that youexperienced it for you.
You experienced it for thepeople that you're going to
(40:54):
serve.
And I'm like what is he saying?
Like this is like what, but itcompletely makes sense to me now
.
But he did one exercise with methat was a game changer.
He said what I want you to do,Mary.
I want you to go and buy ajournal.
I said yes, I've already got4,000 of those.
And he said I don't want you tojournal like the way you've
always been journaling.
You know you're probablywriting, you know all these
(41:16):
stories and stuff in there.
I said yes, that's exactly whatI do.
He said oh no, he said theancient Kabbalists.
They didn't do that.
He said what I want you to dois I want you to do two things.
First of all, I want you tounpack your story, the first 21
years of your life, in firstperson.
Write your story.
I said I can't remember whathappened to me at one years old.
(41:36):
He said, oh no, but your soulremembers.
He said, just let your soul.
And I'm like, what is this?
This guy's like, please, like,where is he taking me?
And so it was like two or threeweeks, I get my journal out.
I'm like, right, today I'mgoing to start writing what
happened to me at zero and oneand nothing would come.
And there was this one night,three weeks into it, you know,
(41:58):
it was like three o'clock in themorning and I just had this
surge of inspiration.
I'm like, right, I've got toget up.
I've got to get up.
I've got to get up.
I got my journal, I opened itand that was it.
I was just writing like wow,this is next level.
And it just started pouring out.
And then he taught me, Mary,when you journal, never write
stuff, always ask questions.
(42:20):
The answer is always in thequestion, and I have mastered
that, like literally masteredthat.
It has become such a big partof my life, how I teach and
coach my clients, and everyanswer that I've ever seeked has
been in that question.
Every day, journal, every day.
(42:42):
There's not a day that goes bywhere I'm just sit quietly in
silence in contemplation.
Even if it's five minutes, it's.
I have to do this, and sophilosophy, what it does, is
that it actually opens you tohave.
It almost gives you permissionto question everything, and what
I was questioning was thesocietal ideologies, these fake
(43:05):
constructs that all of us havebought into but we've never
questioned.
So when you start questioningall of the societal ideologies,
you're going to be over herewith a 1% very quickly.
Walt Bayliss (43:17):
Because you're just not fitting, and I think
that's like the definition of anentrepreneur.
So this year, this sabbatical,I had a personal experience For
me.
I was in the center ofAustralian desert when it
happened for me, when I realizedthat I was actually in control
of my own life, I could actuallymake my own choices, I didn't
have to rely on expectation.
It was a pivotal day for me,pivotal night actually, and to
(43:41):
hear this, I guess, coming tofruition with you as well, is
amazing Coming out of this year.
Did you then understand andhave a path in front of you?
Mary Henderson (43:54):
Was that the piece?
Well, here's the thing when Iwas in that transitional period,
that 12-month with Mark, and Idid this unpacking of my first
21 years, then I thought, well,let me just extend it to the
first 30 years.
And, of course, coming from atech background, I looked at
this and I'm like I wonder if Ican see patterns here.
So I actually transferred a lotof that information onto an
Excel spreadsheet and I'm like,oh my God, like whoa, I could
(44:18):
see my life playing out in frontof my eyes, the things that
made me happy, the things thattraumat me happy, the things
that would traumatize me, thingsthat made me unhappy, all these
aspects of myself.
And then what I realized, Walt,is this that's amazing.
Walt Bayliss (44:37):
You mapped your emotional I mapped it all out
everything out.
Mary Henderson (44:42):
And it was actually amazing experience
because I was able to see thetruth.
Do you see what I'm saying?
So I wanted to see the truth.
So because of that, I thenrealized, holy shit, we're
actually looking for our purposeand mission outside of us, but
actually it's inside of me.
I have everything I need to besuccessful and to go and pursue
(45:04):
my purpose and mission.
Do you believe it took me threeyears to develop my system that
I now teach?
That has evolved over the years.
But I didn't want to just get oncalls with people and, oh,
let's do some coaching.
That's not my style.
I need to show you how I cangive you outcomes, results,
(45:26):
transformation every step of theway.
I want to move you to the nextlogical step as quickly as
possible, not just haveconversations with you.
So it took me three years fromthat initial discovery of, oh my
God, like everything I need isinside of me.
How do I now package this andcreate a solution to a problem?
But the other thing and I dowant to say this for the people
(45:50):
that are listening this is whatI discovered we are
multi-faceted human beings.
We can never be aone-size-fits-all.
That is a societal ideology.
Become a doctor and stick tothat, become a lawyer and that's
what you're going to be.
And I'm saying no, sorry, I'm alot of things and I need to
(46:11):
bring that, all of that, into mysolution.
I can't just be Mary the salesguru over here and Mary the
software guru.
No, because the thing is thateven my personal branding
started 23 years ago, when Iactually 24 years ago, year 2000
.
That's when I came face to facewith personal branding.
(46:33):
Not two years ago, not fourbooks, not because it's become,
you know, super sexy to say, oh,I've got a personal brand, but
23 years ago I came face to facewith the power of personal
branding.
So all of that had to bepackaged so that I can bring all
of Mary to the table.
So we must appreciate that weare multifaceted.
(46:56):
That is the truth.
Walt Bayliss (46:58):
I love it, and clearly your clients do too,
because, as I'm reading theirtestimonials, what they're
talking about is I think I readone which was, specifically, it
said, the difference betweenworking with other business
coaches and Mary was that at theend, I had actioned, the steps
that I needed to take and I hadachieved the results, which I
thought was it's nice.
It's nice to hear yourcustomers say that what you're
(47:19):
doing is is working.
I love it, Mary, you're.
You're a freedom fighter,you're a rule breaker, you're a
leader, you're anentrepreneurial enabler.
This is you as a pure truth.
One of the things that'sinteresting for me, your
conversation about wisdomcurrency and the continual
(47:39):
investment to enhance the valueof that currency is clear.
You also mentioned the wholeself-help world is something
that you classify as a BS.
Are you constantly learningtoday and, if so, how?
If the self-help world isclassified as predominantly BS,
let's leave a door open.
And your wisdom currency issomething that you're valuing
(48:04):
higher and higher and higher.
Based on your experiences andyour connections.
What's your educationalframework today?
What do you do to continuallyevolve?
Mary Henderson (48:14):
I do a combination.
You know I still believe incoaching and mentoring in a
really profound way.
I believe that, for me, if Iwant to learn something and get
there in the shortest timepossible, I invest in the people
that can and get there in theshortest time possible.
I invest in the people that canget me there in the shortest
time possible.
I do not believe in the notionof DIY.
I don't like it, I'm notinterested.
It's time consuming and I justI want the knowledge that I need
(48:38):
in that moment and I seek it.
So that's the first thing.
I do read a lot of differenttype of literature, you know,
and I'm into anything to do withancient wisdom, anything to do
with even biblical knowledge.
You know it's interesting.
You know I come from a Greekheritage and you know Greek
philosophy, you know even beinginterested in things like.
(49:01):
You know people like Alexanderthe Great understanding the
mindset of a person like that.
My parents come from thatregion where Alexander the Great
came from.
So I have a really interest inthat.
I like to read about biblicalprinciples, not because of
religion, but because there's alot of truth in between when you
(49:21):
read in between the lines, andI kind of like to decode that in
between the, when you read inbetween the lines.
And I kind of like to decodethat and I think, most
importantly, Walt, I trust myinner knowing and this is where
my journaling comes in and I,and when I'm asking questions
and I'm trying to find answers,I'm always, always, guaranteed,
(49:42):
directed in the right direction,always, always.
It's never let me down, put itthat way, which is why I believe
in it so much.
So I'm a combination of, but Ido not read self-help books at
all at all.
I have no interest in themwhatsoever.
I am really anti-self-help.
I don't mind if people read itas a door opener and you know
(50:04):
it's like they can see the crackin the door and they walk
through.
But you've got to go deeper.
For me, everything starts insidemyself.
So I do a lot of internalshadow work.
I really come face to face withmy fears.
I'm not afraid to see thattruth in myself, where I have
weaknesses, where I'm not seeing, where I'm choosing not to see,
(50:26):
and I can ask those.
You know those difficultquestions and go there.
You know, because we're not allperfect.
I don't know everything and Idon't want to know everything.
I want to keep learning to knoweverything and I just don't
think that we ever ever leavethis world knowing everything.
But I think you have to have anappetite to want to know as
(50:48):
much as you can, because themore we know and the more we
unfold, the more we move awayfrom that 99% and we come over
this way.
Walt Bayliss (50:56):
Amazing, amazing, everything you already,
everything you need, is alreadyinside you.
So just getting to knowyourself and understanding who
you are and recognizing that,that's enough.
I often tell my daughter, um,she's 13 as I'm recording this,
um, struggling with selfconfidence a little bit, looking
in the mirror, saying just makesure you're connecting and say
to yourself I'm okay, I'mactually, I'm okay.
(51:18):
This like for me therealization.
In the same way, everything youhave is who you're supposed to
be.
It's everything you needorganization.
In the same way, everything youhave is who you're supposed to
be.
It's everything you need.
You've got it.
You've got that whole package.
It's there, right there.
All you need is to feelcomfortable with who you are and
be able to move that forward.
Incredible.
So do you have you mentionedthat?
Um, working with mentors andcoaches is something that that
you are a big advocate of.
Do you have a mentor and coachright now?
(51:39):
Is that, are you working withsomebody in a formal, in-range
market?
If you were your own coach,what would you say to yourself?
With somebody in a formal,enraging market?
Mary Henderson (51:50):
If you were your own coach, what would you say
to yourself?
I think that I'm going to stickto that whole idea of that.
Self-belief is where it startslike just constantly challenging
yourself go deeper and deeperand deeper, and I do a lot of
this work, more now than everbefore.
The other thing that I'mgetting really into now is and
(52:13):
knowledge is one thing, but alsoour physiology is another thing
, and I think that this is very,very important.
So for me, it's not so mucharound having a coach right now,
I'm really focused on, you know, nurturing my body, my nervous
system.
So I have a physio thatspecializes in this area and I'm
(52:35):
with him every single weekbecause I really need to nurture
my body and really bring downthat fight and flight as much as
I possibly can.
I'm a fairly grounded person,but really really looking after
my body and nurturing that iswhere my focus is right at this
(52:57):
point, and I think we have to dothat.
We can't do it all well, we can, but what I'm saying is that
for me, my priority at themoment is my physiology.
It's really critical, and thenyou know, who knows what will
happen, you know, in two monthsfrom now.
Walt Bayliss (53:12):
I'm not surprised by the way.
I'm really not surprised.
I said to you before we startedrecording that making me look
good would be easy for me.
I think I'm not surprised justpurely because you've done that
journey of philosophicalunderstanding of who you are and
where you're headed, and youknow the pathway that's there
and the emotional wisdom, thewisdom currency as you're
calling it.
I'm not surprised now thatyou've ventured into the
physical to understand that aswell and get a great
(53:33):
understanding of the wholepicture, and you know there's so
many different facets of thatthat you can call on.
This to me is a true guidingconversation, you and I.
I think I'm hoping that aspeople are listening to this,
they're recognizing that, a it'sokay to be me.
A and B it doesn't matter.
If I believe it strongly enough, then I can make something
(53:56):
happen.
All this way down the path, Ihope people are understanding
that if you're in a dark place,there's light and it's been
achieved and it's definitelysomething that you can walk
towards.
As I look atmaryhendersoncoaching.
com and I look at people beingable to find you on Instagram
and Facebook and LinkedInespecially, where will we see
you and your influence and yourtouch points in the world.
(54:18):
Where will we see you over thenext 12 months?
Mary Henderson (54:20):
I think that I'm going to really amplify my
presence across LinkedIn.
I think that LinkedIn is such amajor opportunity for so many
entrepreneurs, especially whenyou think that there's only 1
billion users on LinkedIn andonly 3% of those users are
creating content.
I would say that 80% of thecontent is pretty average.
(54:43):
So there's major, majoropportunity there for all of us
all of us, and we have to thinklike that.
There's a tribe that I believeis dedicated to every single one
of us, you know, because thewhole point is to share our
wisdom, isn't it, you know?
So I think that, for me, I'mreally really focused on
(55:03):
amplifying my presence onLinkedIn, but very strategically
and deliberately, Walt, notjust for anyone.
I am not a one size fits all,and that's exactly the way I
want it to be, because when youhave that mindset and I hope
that everyone takes a page outof my book when you have a
mindset that I am not foreveryone, but I am for these
(55:26):
people, only serve those people.
I call them your 10%.
Don't worry about the 90%.
The 90% are not loyal, theydon't care about you, they never
will advocate for you.
Let them go.
It's the 10% that you want tofocus on, and that's where I'm
at.
Walt Bayliss (55:42):
I love it.
I love it.
And for those who just heardthat and went oh, I can just
spam the crap out of LinkedIn,that's not what Mary's saying.
And in fact, if you want toknow what Mary's saying, come
over to LinkedIn, just type inMary Henderson We'll make sure
that the links are all the waythrough our show notes and et
cetera, because you will see theabsolute, clear example of what
Mary's talking about beingyourself and authenticity comes
(56:04):
with the very nature of who youare and what you're doing.
Don't try and copy anybodyelse's.
Don't copy and paste content.
Worst thing you can possibly doBe yourself, because people
just cannot wait to hear fromyou.
And again, like, look at theexample set by Mary.
Being yourself and holding trueto that, that North star
message that you have has ledyou to become a leader.
(56:24):
As you said, four books whereyou've got coaching system set
up and ready to go.
Guys, if you want to followanybody, come across and learn
from Mary.
I'm just going to say, from ourcommunity, from myself
personally.
Thank you for the time.
Amazing to actually be able tosit with you for an hour or so
and talk about how entrepreneurs, how startup founders, side
(56:44):
hustlers, salespeople how we canall find that true north within
ourselves, understand that wedo have a voice and we have that
wisdom, currency inside of us,and taking that out into the
marketplace is exactly what weshould be doing.
So I want to say thank you fromour listeners and from myself.
I cannot wait to see what theirfuture's got in us.
(57:05):
You do come back and check withus and tell us what's going on,
because we'd love to hear it.
Mary, you're a real pleasure tohave on.
Thanks, Walt.
Mary Henderson (57:11):
Thank you so much, Walt, I really appreciate
it.
Walt Bayliss (57:14):
Awesome to see you .
All right guys.
Thank you so much.
Mary Henderson, I will makesure that you've got that link
in the show notes.
It's maryhendersoncoaching.
com.
And again, if you want tofollow a true leader in the
space of personal branding, inthe space of finding your own
voice and being able to presentthat to the world, there's
nobody better out there.
Mary, again, thank you so muchand we'll look forward to seeing
you on the next episode.
(57:34):
Thank you.
Ladies and gentlemen, thank you so much for
joining me here on the Sales,startups and Side Hustles
podcast as we launch and talk toentrepreneurs.
We talk to founders, we talk tostartup entrepreneurs and
hustlers those who are makingincredible things happen around
the world and, to that end, wehave a special guest today who
is going to rock your world.
Her story is incredible, fromretail sales management all the
(00:24):
way through to startingmagazines, subscriber
newsletters with tens ofthousands of followers.
She's one of LinkedIn's majorinfluencers, with over 70,000
people following her every moveon LinkedIn.
She's a personal brandingspecialist.
She has come from being thestage queen and now is the
founder and director of her owncompany.
She is none other than MaryHenderson, and it is a huge
(00:46):
pleasure to have you on the show, Mary.
Thank you so much for joiningus.
Mary Henderson (00:49):
Oh, my God, what an introduction, but I'm
actually really excited to behere myself.
So you know, it works both ways.
Walt Bayliss (00:57):
It's so great to have you Now.
I've been doing a little bit ofresearch on you and finding out
you're no stranger to podcasts.
You've been on podcasts, you'vebeen on YouTube interviews.
You've been on stages allaround the world.
How did this all happen for you?
Actually, let me start with abetter question.
You went from straight out ofschool.
You went down the musical artstheater path.
(01:17):
I read somewhere that yourparents weren't happy about that
, so you challenged that.
You broke out of it.
You went into psychology, yougot into retail and management
and sales and territorymanagement, and now you run
business coaching andprofessional branding for
businesses and entrepreneursaround the world.
This seems like an incrediblejourney.
How did you go from sort of outof school and in that space and
(01:38):
getting into then sales andbusiness and all of those kinds
of territories?
Mary Henderson (01:43):
I'm going to start the question back to front
you know, and the reason I'mgoing to do that because I think
it'll put everything intocontext Back to front is what do
I stand for today and what Istand for today is making sure
that I teach people how topursue and fulfill their purpose
and mission.
That is my absolute stance.
So it's amazing when you lookback to front, because then you
(02:08):
start to realize and you connectall the dots and you're like
everything was divinelyorchestrated for me to actually
be doing what I'm doing today.
So my life started with myparents, who are migrants, and I
grew up in a very working classfamily.
My parents believed that, youknow, that hard work and getting
(02:32):
a degree was the only way tosuccess.
But I was gifted, you know, Ihad a voice.
I was very talented at singing.
My parents invested a lot oftime and money in all of the
performing arts.
You know, things that I wantedto be involved in and I mean I
went a long way.
But when it came, you know thatmoment when I had to choose my
(02:53):
direction and my path in life, Isaid to my parents I want to go
to the College of Arts, it'sall I want to do.
My mum was like, are youkidding?
Like we didn't migrate toAustralia for you to be standing
on a stage and singing?
Like that's not a career.
You need to be a doctor or alawyer or an architect.
That's a career.
And as a 16-year-old I thought,oh my God, my dreams are
(03:16):
crushed.
And that was a really massive.
That was actually trauma for meand that's how I received that
messaging which, by the way, Icarried that trauma for a very
long time because I didn't knowhow to process it.
But the thing is well that noneof that went away, because,
looking back now, I don't thinkI was ever meant to be a singer.
(03:40):
What I believe I was meant to dowas understand the power of
voice, and this is really suchthe.
This is the epicenter of thework that I do.
So it's ironic that, because Isay to people understand what
your gift is and channel thatany way you can, the talent can
(04:00):
change.
Don't worry about the talent,the talent's always.
You can apply the gift to anytalent, but it's the gift that I
think we need to hold on to andwe need to nurture.
So that's kind of the backdrop.
As to how.
I start my journey as a on stage, but nothing's changed.
The voice is still theepicenter of what I do.
Walt Bayliss (04:19):
I love that and you can see that my business
partner, my friend, gave me the,gave me this neon sign that
forms my back in there, whichjust says you have magic in you.
It's the message I think thatyou're resonating right now,
which is just so music to myears.
Tell me about the gift.
When you're talking to anentrepreneur you just mentioned
there, you have the gift.
The talent can change, but thegift stays with you.
(04:42):
Tell me about that.
What's your thoughts there?
Change?
Mary Henderson (04:45):
but the gift stays with you.
Tell me about that.
What's your thoughts there?
I think that we as a societyhave not been taught from the
school system how to unpack ournatural state of being.
We're all looking for answersoutside of us.
We're all looking to be likesomebody else, to aspire to be
like somebody else.
And whilst I love the Gary V's,the Oprah's, all of the
(05:07):
influencers, I like to watchthem, I don't want to be them,
but so many people want to belike that, and that is because
we've never been taught how totake a step back, go inside and
ask some pretty deep questionswho am I?
What are my natural gifts?
What do I look like in mynatural state of being?
(05:27):
What do I love?
What am I passionate about?
What am I good at?
And I think that we have to stoplooking outside and stop going
inside, because when I work withpeople, that's my first stop.
I make people look atthemselves and love themselves.
This is all I've got.
This is your inventory.
I can't help you be like Oprah.
(05:50):
I don't know what Oprah'snatural state of beingness is.
I don't know what her gifts are, her talents, are her core
values, her abilities, herattributes, her traits.
I have no idea, but I know whatyou have and that's what we
have to work with and we have tofall in love with that.
I have no idea, but I know whatyou have and that's what we
have to work with and we have tofall in love with that.
I call that the soul print.
That's what I call that.
Walt Bayliss (06:10):
Wow, amazing, amazing.
I think there's so many peopleyou and I are doing the same
work with entrepreneurs helpingthem understand that this gift
that you're mentioning issomething that they have.
It's unique to them, it'ssomething that nobody else can
do the way that they do it, andit's that gift that we want to
explore with entrepreneurs andhelp people understand what
(06:30):
makes it.
How do you work with peoplethat are finding that concept
hard?
For so many years they've beenin the same light as yourself,
as we just mentioned.
They've been beaten in theacademic path that you're either
a doctor, a lawyer or a failure.
As Jay Shetty said, you have tobe one of those academic
pathways.
You have to get a job.
You have to march the nine tofive line.
(06:53):
What do you say to people thatare tired of that but they don't
know?
Mary Henderson (06:59):
what to do.
I try and deconstruct societalideologies as much as possible
and and use the language toshare that knowledge with people
.
It's almost like I want to pullthe wool over your, out of your
eyes, and make you see who youtruly are.
And I think that, because we'vebeen brainwashed to believe
(07:23):
certain things, to fear certainthings, our society has done an
amazing job at making most of usfollow this pathway that
essentially ends in a dead end.
But the thing is, walt, that Iwant to say this and you
probably will totally resonatewith this I find it ironic that
and you know this because youspeak to entrepreneurs they all
(07:46):
kind of have the same ideas of,when it comes to fear, what if
it doesn't work out?
What if I don't get clients?
What if I fail?
What if?
What if?
And I find it amazing, nomatter who I work with, what
religion they come from, whatcolor their skin is, what part
of the world they're from, whatis their first language, that
(08:08):
ideology and that mindset is thesame across the board.
Now I always say to my clientsthat's 99% of the world are
thinking exactly like you.
Now we have to question that andsay that's interesting.
Why are the 1% not thinkinglike that?
You're looking over here, the1% are looking over here.
(08:32):
So you've got to question that.
You have to ask yourself whatare the 1% thinking that the 99%
are not thinking?
Well, let me tell you, it'svery easy.
The 1% have challenged societalideologies.
They haven't bought into thesystems that we've bought into.
Go to school, get an education.
(08:53):
You get a degree, go touniversity.
You're going to be a goodlittle girl, a great citizen,
and I'm saying yes, but I don'treally want to be a part of that
system, because that system Ihaven't really seen how it's
served.
The majority of the population,everyone's still frustrated.
People are not fulfilled,they're overweight, they're
(09:15):
unhealthy, they're losing theirjob, they can't get a new job.
There's all these problems.
Walt Bayliss (09:20):
They hate their job.
Mary Henderson (09:20):
So I'm saying, yes, they hate their job and
they're in a job for the sake ofoh, I've got bills, I've got a
family, blah, blah, blah.
All the same reasons again.
So for me, when I can challengesocietal ideologies and feel
really comfortable doing that,I'm already detached from the
99% because I'm going through aprocess of unlearning what I've
(09:43):
learned and we have to getcomfortable with that.
Walt Bayliss (09:46):
So I think, like looking at your academic history
there, when you were studying amajor in psychology at uni, and
talking now about the fear thatis prevalent in every
entrepreneur and everynon-entrepreneur, in every human
, let's go with that.
There's those fundamental fearsof am I going to be good enough
(10:07):
?
Am I going to make it?
What happens if?
How do you think entrepreneursdeal with that differently than
I guess people who are notwilling to look at those options
?
Mary Henderson (10:20):
Well, I think that there's two types of
entrepreneurs.
First and foremost, there's thepeople that have got side
hustles, that call themselvesentrepreneurs, and that, to me,
is not entrepreneurship.
Then there's the entrepreneurswho are the risk takers, who say
you know what?
I'm prepared to lose everythingand fail as much as I possibly
can, but know that I actuallypursued my path.
(10:40):
That's the entrepreneur thatI'm talking to heart.
That's the entrepreneur thatI'm talking to, because the
thing is that if we don't havethat notion that I can fail
abysmally and I can loseeverything, but I'm okay with
that, that's the start of thejourney for entrepreneurship.
From my standpoint and I'vebeen down this is my third
startup.
I've had two tech startupsbefore that and that was my
(11:03):
ideology.
It was like I'm just going to,I didn't care if I fail and I
didn't care if I lose everything, but I need to do this.
Walt Bayliss (11:10):
Not trying is actually failing more.
Mary Henderson (11:13):
Exactly, that's exactly right.
But the thing is that I feelthat with entrepreneurs, that
the true entrepreneurs, we kindof think like that.
You know and we do.
We're risk takers, we're okaywith being uncomfortable, and
it's not foreign to me.
I'm not afraid of failure, Idon't care what people say.
I am here to fulfill my purposeand mission.
(11:34):
But I also believe, Walt, thatentrepreneurs need to belong to
other people like us, so we canfeed off one another, support
one another, advocate for oneanother, because I don't think
that.
I think that doingentrepreneurship on your own is
very, very dangerous and it'svery, very lonely, and so even
just doing these type of podcasttype of scenarios is very
(11:57):
powerful, because here we are,you and I, for the next 35
minutes, bouncing off oneanother, you know, building
relationships, collaborating insome shape or form, but I'm
never going to forget you.
You're always going to be atthe back of my mind or front of
mine or top of mine, you know,and vice versa.
So I feel that with trueentrepreneurship, we do need to
(12:17):
find a place that we can belongto, to actually just bounce off
ideas, because it is a lonelyworld when you go down the true
path of entrepreneurship.
Walt Bayliss (12:28):
So it's interesting.
You know we're talking aboutthe numbers there.
We're saying you know the 1%,the 99%, and looking at that
lonely journey, even justtapping into resources like this
, getting hold of podcasts,being a subscriber to your
newsletters which,congratulations, by the way
looks incredible.
The being connected withinformation from external
sources is such an importantpiece because you genuinely do
(12:50):
feel like you're on your own.
I've done the mental strugglething.
You know we had a business gounder and nearly cost me my life
and my family.
You know a father and a husband.
That was a terrible, terribletime, and that mental health
space for entrepreneurs is adangerous one.
But for anybody that'slistening, if you're on the
treadmill or you're in the car,the actual community of
entrepreneurs are connected by aI don't know an energy.
(13:14):
Even if you're not in amembership, even if you're not
standing next to each other in acoffee shop, there's an energy
between us that alwaysrecognizes who you are, what
you're doing, how you'recreating and tapping into.
That, I think, is a huge thing.
So, Mary, as you're developingthis out and if I can dive into
the newsletter just for a second, wow, for a start.
(13:35):
In today's day and age, we'veall got too many things that
we're subscribed to.
There's too much notificationsin your inbox and on your phone
to build a newsletter up tonearly 10,000 subscribers as I'm
recording this and you're onlythree episodes in which is
incredible Not only that to have70,000 people following you on
LinkedIn what you're creatingthere as a community and you're
(13:56):
leading that community in anincredible way.
How are you writing that?
How are you connecting withyour audience using what you're
doing with your Mary Hendersoncoaching and putting that into a
digestible format?
What's driving you to have thatvoice into the community?
Mary Henderson (14:15):
I decided this year, Walt, that I was sick and
tired of just noise, theseself-proclaimed influences, and
especially on LinkedIn.
Actually, it's the same thingover and over again rinse and
repeat do this to get that, dothis to get that, and it's all
based on an individualisedexperience, which I totally
(14:38):
appreciate, but to me, well, youknow, being a calling yourself
an entrepreneur and sellingLinkedIn services to me is not
entrepreneurship, that's just ajob.
You know, being a callingyourself an entrepreneur and
selling LinkedIn services to meis not entrepreneurship, that's
just a job, you know.
So what I wanted to do thisyear was I wanted to put the
light on wisdom.
That's where I'm going.
I want to.
(14:58):
I want to make people see thatthey are sitting on a gold mine
called wisdom currency.
That is the highest form ofcurrency that exists in the
world.
Knowledge and information isnot currency.
It's just filling up a lot ofempty holes in your soul.
But if you don't understandthat knowledge and you haven't
(15:20):
experienced that knowledge, whatis it?
It's just more noise right.
It's just being able toarticulate somebody else's
experience and somebody else'svoice through your words, but
really you're copying andpasting.
No, what I want is I want toshow people.
Look, I'm going to put a lighton wisdom, and everything that I
(15:42):
share with you comes from thatplace.
It doesn't come from a place ofreading two or three books,
attending a weekend seminar andgetting a certification and
calling myself an expert.
I don't even call myself anexpert.
I call myself a specialist, butI don't call myself an expert.
Why?
Because I'm a student of life,I'm always, always learning.
(16:04):
So wisdom is very interestingbecause there's two layers of
wisdom from where I stand.
The first layer is yourexperienced knowledge and skill
set okay, and that's yourprofessional background.
So when you've experienced thatknowledge and you understand
that knowledge, that converts towisdom.
(16:25):
That's one layer.
But then there's another layerand that's what I call your
universal principles.
This is your hero's journey.
This is you going in andexperiencing life as you used
the word beautifully beforeenergetically.
This is a whole different layerof wisdom, because it doesn't
come from a book, it comes justfrom being, and when you
(16:47):
converge those two together youcan bring a new layer of
knowledge to the table thatpeople can take, and I'm not
pushing my ideology on anyone.
I'm just saying here's adifferent perspective and this
is my perspective on anyone.
I'm just saying here's adifferent perspective and this
is my perspective.
This is how I've experienced it, because I don't want to fit in
(17:08):
to what everybody else is doing.
I'm not interested in that.
I don't need the vanity metrics, I don't need the million
followers to validate who I am.
I already know who I am and Ithink that's the starting point
and what I say to all my clientsif you don't show up as knowing
that you're already anauthority, then chasing and
(17:29):
being seen as an authority isvery different to showing up and
saying I'm already theauthority, I don't need the
validation.
You can take it or you canleave it, because everything I
give you is from my experience.
So that newsletter that you'rereading is actually a
transcription of my weekly liveshow, which is on LinkedIn,
(17:50):
which I stream on LinkedIn, andI use that same messaging, you
know, in voice and in a writtenformat.
Again, I'm going to just saythis because this is so powerful
the two most powerfulinstruments that we have been
given as humans is our voice andour hands.
We write with our hands.
(18:11):
We speak with our voice.
That's energetically highlycharged, and how we use it is
entirely up to us.
So I've chosen to use my twoinstruments, you know,
simultaneously and usingmessaging.
That is 100% aligned.
Walt Bayliss (18:28):
So, as people are coming to you, Mary, so you're a
leader.
I'm going to absolutely usethat word.
Well, you are a leader inhelping, specifically, coaches
and consultants find their voice, find their messaging and find
their branding.
As people are coming to you, doyou often have to.
Do you help them find that, ordo they already know it and then
(18:52):
they need you to help thembroadcast it in a larger forum?
Mary Henderson (18:56):
Most people that I work with have no idea that
they're already sitting on agold mine and I show people.
I say here's let's convert allof your experience into hours
and let's multiply that by $100an hour.
Let's just give it a value.
You're already sitting on three$4 million worth of
intellectual currency already.
That's the starting point whenI think I help a lot of people
(19:20):
99.99% of the people I work withis I can organize all of their
life experience professional andpersonal and merge that
together to create a solution.
And because I come from asoftware, a tech background and
I owned my own software companyfor many years, I understand how
(19:42):
to create data points.
I understand frameworking.
My company built algorithms.
I get how to think like that.
So for me, organizing thatinformation is so critical,
because then we arrive at thecomplex problem that you can
solve and we organize thatinformation into a solution that
(20:03):
can be delivered in multipledifferent ways.
Walt Bayliss (20:06):
Nice, I like it.
So one of the things that yousaid there, Mary, was that you
said if you don't show up as anauthority, it's never going to
be something that you can chaseand achieve.
How do you work with peoplethat say, yeah, but Mary, I'm
not really sure if I am anauthority?
Mary Henderson (20:23):
I think that the thing that I try and get across
to people is that if you havethat attitude that I don't know
if I'm an authority, well, firstof all, let me just backtrack.
First of all, I don't work withpeople that are not industry
experts.
So that's the first thing.
So there's no one that I workwith will ever say that, because
they're already come from abackground where they can prove
(20:47):
to me that they are an industryexpert.
For me, well, it's toodifficult to package somebody
that wants to be famous forbeing famous, so that's not my
tribe at all.
So I do work only with industryexperts.
That's the first thing.
The second thing is that whenpeople get really freaked out
because they have to putthemselves out there, they
(21:08):
already know that that's whatthey're in for.
Otherwise, I can't.
The only other way that you cangenerate leads and sales is
going down the pay to play path.
So which one is it?
You want to spend 10 grand andget leads and never put yourself
out there, or do you want tolearn how to actually start a
dialogue with your targetaudience, how to pull them in?
(21:29):
Learn, you know desire-basedmarketing strategies.
You know become a brilliantmarketer, not a brilliant
salesperson.
Sales is the effect of brilliantmarketing.
So I try and and I think thatwith me, because I'm an
end-to-end solution and we wrapan entire sales and marketing
strategy around their area ofspecialization I try and make it
(21:51):
as easy as possible for peopleto just get really comfortable
in putting themselves out there,and I think that once you get a
taste of it and you can seethat it's going down the right
path, I think that a lot ofpeople just feel like, yep, this
is where I want to be.
I do want, because I thinkyou've got to decide first and
foremost do I want to createimpact?
(22:13):
Do I want to bring my area ofspecialization into the world
and serve on a mass scale, or doI want to be super, super,
super tight and little, and thenI'm not going to be the right
person for you, because I dopromote the idea of you've got
to use your voice and you've gotto use your hands.
Walt Bayliss (22:32):
I love it.
So, as you mentioned, there'stwo different types of
entrepreneurs and you mentionedyour ideal audience are not the
side hustles on the weekend, youknow, selling stuff on eBay
kind of kind of people.
Your, your, your clients arethe ones that are starting
something big and making and youused a really important word
there impact.
And I feel like I feel likethis is the defining moment for
(22:54):
an entrepreneur that says I wantto do this for the rest of my
life.
This is the thing.
Whatever that thing is, this isthe thing that I just have been
in my soul trying to find, asyou called it, your soul print
before.
Do you see that transformationin entrepreneurs and let me load
that question up a little bit Ithink a lot of people start up
(23:17):
with the sell stuff on eBay onthe weekends kind of stuff, or
whatever they do to get thatinitial bug, that traction, or
whatever it is, to pay some,bring some money in.
There's a, there's a moment,there's a pivotal moment where
that belief goes whoa, this.
Do you see that happen as atransformation with, with people
in your group?
Mary Henderson (23:37):
I think that there are two again, there's
also another layer with thiswhole entrepreneurship.
You know, individual.
There's the entrepreneur that'schasing success and then
there's the entrepreneur who'schasing their purpose and
mission.
And they're two differententrepreneurs.
One is chasing either a quickfix, let's make a buck.
You know, like I'm on the way,you know I'm going to create
(23:58):
success, I'm going to do what Ineed to do Scale, sell, move on.
But then there's the other onethat says I am on a mission, I
must pursue this purpose andthis mission, because this is my
sole print.
I must do this, that's my job.
Completely different game.
And this is me.
(24:18):
You know, I am on a mission,you know, this is why I talk
about the wisdom currency somuch.
This is new language, Walt.
You know, when I talk aboutwisdom currency, people are like
oh yeah, that's nice.
And I'm like do you actuallyunderstand what I'm saying?
Like, you know, and I thinkthat we are heading into the
wisdom economy, we will getthere.
There's no doubt about that,because information will be just
(24:40):
it's too much to fathom All thedifferent ideologies, the
different angles, do this, dothis and nothing works.
So I'm saying, look, push thataside.
It's all lovely and great, butyou've got to come from a place.
That's why I say you've got tostart with knowing you're an
authority, first and foremost,because then you make the
decision Am I chasing a job, amI creating a job for myself, am
(25:06):
I chasing success or am Ichasing purpose and mission?
And there's three differenttypes of people, and typically
for me it's the purpose andmission.
Walt Bayliss (25:15):
So, on this and again, focusing on your
expertise there, which again, Iuse the word leader very, very
easily Focusing on the peoplethat have a purpose and a
mission, this is what I want todo for the rest of my life.
They're coming to you sayinghelp me define this.
Now, one of the things that I'mreally super impressed with,
Mary, is that you are a personalbranding expert and nobody does
(25:37):
it better than you.
Honestly, when I'm doing myresearch for podcast guests, for
people coming on the show,finding your personal brand was
as easy as drinking a glass ofwater.
Your personal branding is rich.
It's on every platform.
Your message is consistent.
You've led the way in, I guess,what you're working with people
(25:59):
to teach.
So this might seem like astupid question, but I'm going
to ask you why is personalbranding important?
Mary Henderson (26:09):
I think when I think of personal branding, it's
not from the standpoint of howfamous am I going to be on a
social media platform?
I think for me, again, it comesback to that knowing that I'm
already the authority and I wantpeople.
I want to be able to servepeople and provide people my
(26:32):
knowledge and my wisdom to solvea problem that they may be
experiencing.
So, from my standpoint, itactually has nothing to do with
fame.
It's just that I, Mary, am thebusiness to begin with, and I,
Mary, bring 23 years ofknowledge, wisdom, skill set,
(26:52):
abilities to the table, and I,Mary, know how to package you
inside out, literally inside out, and that, for me, is my
definition of personal brandingand we spoke about this before
but it's knowing who I am in mynatural state of being, because
(27:12):
authenticity is that.
How many personal brandingexperts are on social media
saying you have to be authentic?
How can I be authentic?
I'm already authentic.
Have you not checked that?
Everyone's got their ownauthentic DNA print?
Like, what are you talkingabout?
So I'm very pragmatic, I'm verylogical, but I'm also very
open-minded.
(27:33):
I understand that.
You know that personal brandingcan seem a little like fake it
till you make it type of aconcept.
But I don't see it from thatperspective.
I see it as how do I packageyou as a product?
How do you actually putyourself out there and pull the
(27:53):
right audience in that say, Ineed Walt, I've got to speak to
him because he's got exactlywhat I want.
I'm connecting with him on amuch, much, much deeper layer.
So personal branding on its ownis meaningless Personal branding
when you connect it with whatyou do, who you can serve and
(28:14):
what you can absolutely promise,based on outcomes, results and
transformation.
Now you're talking to me.
Now you've got breadth anddepth.
So I think that we've got tostop this ideology around
personal branding that, oh, youneed a personal brand on
LinkedIn.
You actually don't need apersonal brand on LinkedIn.
What you need is brilliantmessaging on LinkedIn to be seen
(28:37):
as the go-to brand for thatarea of specialization.
That's pretty simple and Ithink that that's what we've got
to focus on, rather than, youknow, investing in tone and
voice and colors and brandingand logos.
All of that's important, but ifyour messaging is out of
alignment, good luck.
Walt Bayliss (28:58):
You'll never break through.
I think the, I think theconcept of a personal brand has
been bastardized, to use abetter word.
People, people have sold apersonal branding hack and it's,
you know, a new logo and aheadshot and a whatever that's.
That's not what you're talkingabout.
You're talking about genuinelyfinding your method of
(29:18):
authentically being the voice inthe space that you are and to
the people that might say well,why do I need that?
Here's the thing.
If you want to stay small youdon't, really you don't If you
just want to keep plugging awayat what you're doing, then you
don't need a personal brand.
But if you genuinely want totake that level up, if you want
(29:38):
to hit that mission and purpose,then you're going to need to be
seen in the marketplace theright way.
Now, if you're an introvert,right.
If you're the I run a softwarecompany as well.
So if you're the, you know Ijust want to code all day and
you know that kind of stuff.
If you're the business ownerand that's your space, there's
going to be a day when you'regoing to need to get publicity
if you truly want that coverage,and that's why this personal
(30:00):
branding message is such animportant thing.
So, Mary, as people are comingin and again I want to talk to
the coaches and the consultantsjust for a moment so people who
own a business and want to makean impact via the delivery of
coaching and consulting, whichis your key audience there.
When they're coming intopersonal branding, how do they
make sure that they're definingthemselves in a crowded
(30:23):
marketplace?
How do they make sure that theyare the one that people see and
say I want to work with you?
Mary Henderson (30:28):
Well, it comes back to what we were saying
before.
It's really understanding whoam I, in my natural state of
being, in fact, Walt.
We don't even start at personalbranding first, because
personal branding is actuallythe effect of the solution that
they bring to the table.
It's actually understanding thecomplex problem that I can
solve first and foremost, andthen understanding what does
(30:51):
that solution actually look likeand then how can I solve who
needs this problem solved?
So I think that is actually thefirst step.
So working on personal branding, as in, that's going to get
eyeballs on my content.
No, that's actually not thetruth.
That personal branding at avery high level is just branding
(31:15):
Okay, my look, my feel, my tone, my voice.
So that's not going to get youanywhere.
But we have to actually startat understanding what is the
complex problem I can solve andwhat does that look like as a
solution and who needs thatsolution solved.
The personal branding is overand above that.
That's the next layer abovethat, because the next layer
(31:37):
above that is okay.
So let's unpack all of theattributes that make up you
unapologetically.
You, you know your core, yourcore traits, your persona, your
core values.
I mean, what about your brandstory, your proposition, all of
that wraps around your coreoffering.
A lot of people say, oh, I knowwhat my values are.
(32:01):
My values are love and trust.
And I say to people well,actually it's not love and trust
, because you don't loveyourself and you don't trust
yourself, so that's not yourcore value.
You might think it is, but youdon't live by those values.
My core values are truth andfreedom.
I am a truth and a freedomfighter.
(32:21):
Everything in my content youwill feel that Everything I
produce, every podcast I'm onyou can see the language I use
all aligns with my core value,and this, for me, is fundamental
, absolutely critical.
You read my brand story.
You went to my website.
It's 100% aligned to ourconversation that we're having
(32:41):
right now.
So I think that there's a lotof moving parts that need to be
glued together and people want a$99 solution and they want to
try and figure it out forthemselves, which there's
nothing wrong with that.
It's just that if you want tobe seen as the go-to person, you
have to understand how to glueit all together so you can be
(33:04):
seen as the go-to expert.
And then, and only then, afteryou've defined the branding,
then, and only then can youcreate a whole messaging
campaign.
Your content strategy et ceteracannot be done without those
two moving parts implementedfirst.
Walt Bayliss (33:20):
For sure, for sure .
I was reading somewhere thatsomebody said and they defined
brand better than anybody elseI've ever heard and they said
brand is what people say aboutyou when you're not in the room.
Mary Henderson (33:32):
Yes.
Walt Bayliss (33:32):
I think that's so defining that, creating that.
You can create thatconversation, which I think is
really great.
Mary, can I wind back a littlebit?
Can I go to that first businessthat was yours?
So, after you worked withBelkin, you went to sales
management and then you launchedyour own digital marketing
agency.
What was the catalyst?
(33:53):
What made you go?
That's it.
I'm out.
I'm ready to go back.
Mary Henderson (33:57):
I'm taking the world by myself actually, before
I started my digital agency, Iactually started another startup
and that was being a directcompetitor to belkin so when I
left.
This was actually an amazingstory because I was in belkin, I
was the.
I mean, I converted thatbusiness from a 4 million to a
54 million dollar business in 48months.
(34:19):
It was unreal.
So I, just I was on fire, and soI had a meeting and I knew I
could see so many opportunitiesthat were missing in that
business.
And so I sat with the presidentof our company, who was based
out in California, and I said Ihave got a solution to your
problem.
(34:39):
You know, like here's what I'mthinking.
I did a whole presentation.
He loved it.
He said let's do a rollout,let's trial this, let's see what
happens.
And I said to him I want topartner with you, I want to run
this business in your businessand I want to head it up.
I want to, I want to do it withyou and anyway, so various
things happen and it didn'teventuate.
(35:00):
And then I just remembersitting one day and what?
No, actually what happened isthat I was travelling so much, I
mean, like literally, I was ona plane twice a week, you know
international travel, and it wasa lot.
And I remember waking up thisone morning and I had just blood
pouring out of my eyes, my nose, my mouth.
(35:21):
It was really scary, and so myhusband called the ambulance.
They came in.
I thought I was dying.
I'm like am I dying, am I dying?
And I just had a burst vesselin my nose.
But what happened is that thatkind of put me out for a whole
week and I just realized in thatmoment I've got to change my
life.
(35:41):
This is not what I want to dofor the rest of my life.
And I put in my resignation andI knew that I had an opportunity
that I was going to just go for.
I didn't know how I was goingto do it.
I didn't know.
I had no idea.
I just resigned.
And then I was like okay, whatam I going to do?
I'm going to take on Belkin.
I'm going to actually be theircompetitor.
So, thankfully, I had somereally awesome connections in
(36:05):
retail, some of Australia'slargest retailers, and I sat
down with the buyers and I saidlisten, I want to create your
own exclusive tech peripheralrange.
We're going to brand it, I'mgoing to give it exclusively to
you.
Let me design it, let me, youknow, create it all and let's go
for it.
And they just bought into it.
They were like, yeah, let's doit.
So I did a major rollout in allMaya stores right across
(36:28):
Australia and my laptop bagswere the number one best-selling
laptop bags.
I mean, it was just crazy thatjust happened so quickly.
And then they had a change ofmanagement and a change of
buyers.
And then they were like no, wedon't want your products, we're
going to stick with you knowthese?
And I was just like okay.
And then the next logical stepwas for me to start my digital
(36:50):
agency specialising specificallyin software, and again, I
actually found a gap in theacademic sector and I just went
after that.
I had no idea about software,by the way, nothing at all.
I just saw an opportunity and Ijust went for it, and that was
the second startup which I hadfor seven years.
Walt Bayliss (37:09):
Amazing and then.
So you got bought out or youhad a merger with that.
Mary Henderson (37:13):
I had a merger.
I had a merger with my secondcompany and that released me.
So January 2012,.
I took an entire year off.
Walt Bayliss (37:22):
Wow.
Mary Henderson (37:23):
It was a sabbatical, I needed that.
I really fell rock bottom, liketo the bottom of the bottom.
I mean, I was really in a likemy mental health was really,
really, really bad.
Was it burnout, massive burnout,but also well, I just realized
that that's not my purpose andmission.
(37:43):
That's my point.
So if you don't understand whatyour purpose and mission is,
you're going to hit rock bottomall the time, because the soul
wants you to listen.
And so I took 12 months off andI had a.
My mentor was a professor inphilosophy at Oxford University.
He was amazing and he would bethe person that would change my
(38:06):
life, like literally, and sothat sabbatical was well and
truly needed.
Walt Bayliss (38:12):
If it's okay with you, I want to dig a little bit
deeper there because, again, themental health of entrepreneurs
is something that I'm verypassionate about as well, and
along with I'm just like ringinga bell every time you're
talking, along with the freedomfighter thing.
For me it's like creating thelife of freedom for yourself
Just before we jump off.
And, if it's okay with you, youmentioned your mentor in this
(38:35):
time was an Oxford professor inpsychology Philosophy sorry, the
wrong P philosophy.
Once somebody told me that adegree in philosophy allows you
to think deep thoughts aboutbeing unemployed.
But how did somebody who hasthat academic background in
philosophy, how did they helpyou find your purpose in that
(38:59):
time?
Mary Henderson (39:01):
The thing about philosophy, especially when
you're dealing with someone atthe level that I had the
privilege of working withimagine somebody that has spent
13 years 30Ks down in theVatican vault you think about
the knowledge and the wisdomthat that guy knows, that you
and I don't know.
So that's the first thing.
So for me, I was very attractedto that.
(39:23):
I'm not into self-help BS LikeI'm just not interested in that
at all, because I feel thatself-help is a downward spiral.
Yes, it can open the door, butit's never a solution.
So I needed to open my mind.
I've always been a big thinker,I've always been a deep thinker,
and I just needed somebody tohelp guide me down that path,
(39:45):
because I couldn't make sensewith a lot of things that I
already kind of intuitively knew.
And so when Mark took me onthis journey, it wasn't about
Mark saying do this, read this,go here.
It was about exploring it foryourself.
And this is the differencebetween philosophy and self-help
(40:09):
some of the things that Ilearned 10 years ago and the
wisdom, some of the things thatI learned back then, would you
believe, I've only justexperienced wow this was the
thing, because he said I can'ttell you how to receive this
information and experience it.
You actually have to experienceit for yourself, and I can't
(40:31):
even tell you when you're goingto experience it.
But he said what I can tell you, and this was the big drumroll
moment for me.
He said what I can tell you isthat everything that you have
experienced in your life good,bad, ugly, high, low, trauma,
whatever don't think that youexperienced it for you.
You experienced it for thepeople that you're going to
(40:54):
serve.
And I'm like what is he saying?
Like this is like what, but itcompletely makes sense to me now
.
But he did one exercise with methat was a game changer.
He said what I want you to do,Mary.
I want you to go and buy ajournal.
I said yes, I've already got4,000 of those.
And he said I don't want you tojournal like the way you've
always been journaling.
You know you're probablywriting, you know all these
(41:16):
stories and stuff in there.
I said yes, that's exactly whatI do.
He said oh no, he said theancient Kabbalists.
They didn't do that.
He said what I want you to dois I want you to do two things.
First of all, I want you tounpack your story, the first 21
years of your life, in firstperson.
Write your story.
I said I can't remember whathappened to me at one years old.
(41:36):
He said, oh no, but your soulremembers.
He said, just let your soul.
And I'm like, what is this?
This guy's like, please, like,where is he taking me?
And so it was like two or threeweeks, I get my journal out.
I'm like, right, today I'mgoing to start writing what
happened to me at zero and oneand nothing would come.
And there was this one night,three weeks into it, you know,
(41:58):
it was like three o'clock in themorning and I just had this
surge of inspiration.
I'm like, right, I've got toget up.
I've got to get up.
I've got to get up.
I got my journal, I opened itand that was it.
I was just writing like wow,this is next level.
And it just started pouring out.
And then he taught me, Mary,when you journal, never write
stuff, always ask questions.
(42:20):
The answer is always in thequestion, and I have mastered
that, like literally masteredthat.
It has become such a big partof my life, how I teach and
coach my clients, and everyanswer that I've ever seeked has
been in that question.
Every day, journal, every day.
(42:42):
There's not a day that goes bywhere I'm just sit quietly in
silence in contemplation.
Even if it's five minutes, it's.
I have to do this, and sophilosophy, what it does, is
that it actually opens you tohave.
It almost gives you permissionto question everything, and what
I was questioning was thesocietal ideologies, these fake
(43:05):
constructs that all of us havebought into but we've never
questioned.
So when you start questioningall of the societal ideologies,
you're going to be over herewith a 1% very quickly.
Walt Bayliss (43:17):
Because you're just not fitting, and I think
that's like the definition of anentrepreneur.
So this year, this sabbatical,I had a personal experience For
me.
I was in the center ofAustralian desert when it
happened for me, when I realizedthat I was actually in control
of my own life, I could actuallymake my own choices, I didn't
have to rely on expectation.
It was a pivotal day for me,pivotal night actually, and to
(43:41):
hear this, I guess, coming tofruition with you as well, is
amazing Coming out of this year.
Did you then understand andhave a path in front of you?
Mary Henderson (43:54):
Was that the piece?
Well, here's the thing when Iwas in that transitional period,
that 12-month with Mark, and Idid this unpacking of my first
21 years, then I thought, well,let me just extend it to the
first 30 years.
And, of course, coming from atech background, I looked at
this and I'm like I wonder if Ican see patterns here.
So I actually transferred a lotof that information onto an
Excel spreadsheet and I'm like,oh my God, like whoa, I could
(44:18):
see my life playing out in frontof my eyes, the things that
made me happy, the things thattraumat me happy, the things
that would traumatize me, thingsthat made me unhappy, all these
aspects of myself.
And then what I realized, Walt,is this that's amazing.
Walt Bayliss (44:37):
You mapped your emotional I mapped it all out
everything out.
Mary Henderson (44:42):
And it was actually amazing experience
because I was able to see thetruth.
Do you see what I'm saying?
So I wanted to see the truth.
So because of that, I thenrealized, holy shit, we're
actually looking for our purposeand mission outside of us, but
actually it's inside of me.
I have everything I need to besuccessful and to go and pursue
(45:04):
my purpose and mission.
Do you believe it took me threeyears to develop my system that
I now teach?
That has evolved over the years.
But I didn't want to just get oncalls with people and, oh,
let's do some coaching.
That's not my style.
I need to show you how I cangive you outcomes, results,
(45:26):
transformation every step of theway.
I want to move you to the nextlogical step as quickly as
possible, not just haveconversations with you.
So it took me three years fromthat initial discovery of, oh my
God, like everything I need isinside of me.
How do I now package this andcreate a solution to a problem?
But the other thing and I dowant to say this for the people
(45:50):
that are listening this is whatI discovered we are
multi-faceted human beings.
We can never be aone-size-fits-all.
That is a societal ideology.
Become a doctor and stick tothat, become a lawyer and that's
what you're going to be.
And I'm saying no, sorry, I'm alot of things and I need to
(46:11):
bring that, all of that, into mysolution.
I can't just be Mary the salesguru over here and Mary the
software guru.
No, because the thing is thateven my personal branding
started 23 years ago, when Iactually 24 years ago, year 2000
.
That's when I came face to facewith personal branding.
(46:33):
Not two years ago, not fourbooks, not because it's become,
you know, super sexy to say, oh,I've got a personal brand, but
23 years ago I came face to facewith the power of personal
branding.
So all of that had to bepackaged so that I can bring all
of Mary to the table.
So we must appreciate that weare multifaceted.
(46:56):
That is the truth.
Walt Bayliss (46:58):
I love it, and clearly your clients do too,
because, as I'm reading theirtestimonials, what they're
talking about is I think I readone which was, specifically, it
said, the difference betweenworking with other business
coaches and Mary was that at theend, I had actioned, the steps
that I needed to take and I hadachieved the results, which I
thought was it's nice.
It's nice to hear yourcustomers say that what you're
(47:19):
doing is is working.
I love it, Mary, you're.
You're a freedom fighter,you're a rule breaker, you're a
leader, you're anentrepreneurial enabler.
This is you as a pure truth.
One of the things that'sinteresting for me, your
conversation about wisdomcurrency and the continual
(47:39):
investment to enhance the valueof that currency is clear.
You also mentioned the wholeself-help world is something
that you classify as a BS.
Are you constantly learningtoday and, if so, how?
If the self-help world isclassified as predominantly BS,
let's leave a door open.
And your wisdom currency issomething that you're valuing
(48:04):
higher and higher and higher.
Based on your experiences andyour connections.
What's your educationalframework today?
What do you do to continuallyevolve?
Mary Henderson (48:14):
I do a combination.
You know I still believe incoaching and mentoring in a
really profound way.
I believe that, for me, if Iwant to learn something and get
there in the shortest timepossible, I invest in the people
that can and get there in theshortest time possible.
I invest in the people that canget me there in the shortest
time possible.
I do not believe in the notionof DIY.
I don't like it, I'm notinterested.
It's time consuming and I justI want the knowledge that I need
(48:38):
in that moment and I seek it.
So that's the first thing.
I do read a lot of differenttype of literature, you know,
and I'm into anything to do withancient wisdom, anything to do
with even biblical knowledge.
You know it's interesting.
You know I come from a Greekheritage and you know Greek
philosophy, you know even beinginterested in things like.
(49:01):
You know people like Alexanderthe Great understanding the
mindset of a person like that.
My parents come from thatregion where Alexander the Great
came from.
So I have a really interest inthat.
I like to read about biblicalprinciples, not because of
religion, but because there's alot of truth in between when you
(49:21):
read in between the lines, andI kind of like to decode that in
between the, when you read inbetween the lines.
And I kind of like to decodethat and I think, most
importantly, Walt, I trust myinner knowing and this is where
my journaling comes in and I,and when I'm asking questions
and I'm trying to find answers,I'm always, always, guaranteed,
(49:42):
directed in the right direction,always, always.
It's never let me down, put itthat way, which is why I believe
in it so much.
So I'm a combination of, but Ido not read self-help books at
all at all.
I have no interest in themwhatsoever.
I am really anti-self-help.
I don't mind if people read itas a door opener and you know
(50:04):
it's like they can see the crackin the door and they walk
through.
But you've got to go deeper.
For me, everything starts insidemyself.
So I do a lot of internalshadow work.
I really come face to face withmy fears.
I'm not afraid to see thattruth in myself, where I have
weaknesses, where I'm not seeing, where I'm choosing not to see,
(50:26):
and I can ask those.
You know those difficultquestions and go there.
You know, because we're not allperfect.
I don't know everything and Idon't want to know everything.
I want to keep learning to knoweverything and I just don't
think that we ever ever leavethis world knowing everything.
But I think you have to have anappetite to want to know as
(50:48):
much as you can, because themore we know and the more we
unfold, the more we move awayfrom that 99% and we come over
this way.
Walt Bayliss (50:56):
Amazing, amazing, everything you already,
everything you need, is alreadyinside you.
So just getting to knowyourself and understanding who
you are and recognizing that,that's enough.
I often tell my daughter, um,she's 13 as I'm recording this,
um, struggling with selfconfidence a little bit, looking
in the mirror, saying just makesure you're connecting and say
to yourself I'm okay, I'mactually, I'm okay.
(51:18):
This like for me therealization.
In the same way, everything youhave is who you're supposed to
be.
It's everything you needorganization.
In the same way, everything youhave is who you're supposed to
be.
It's everything you need.
You've got it.
You've got that whole package.
It's there, right there.
All you need is to feelcomfortable with who you are and
be able to move that forward.
Incredible.
So do you have you mentionedthat?
Um, working with mentors andcoaches is something that that
you are a big advocate of.
Do you have a mentor and coachright now?
(51:39):
Is that, are you working withsomebody in a formal, in-range
market?
If you were your own coach,what would you say to yourself?
With somebody in a formal,enraging market?
Mary Henderson (51:50):
If you were your own coach, what would you say
to yourself?
I think that I'm going to stickto that whole idea of that.
Self-belief is where it startslike just constantly challenging
yourself go deeper and deeperand deeper, and I do a lot of
this work, more now than everbefore.
The other thing that I'mgetting really into now is and
(52:13):
knowledge is one thing, but alsoour physiology is another thing
, and I think that this is very,very important.
So for me, it's not so mucharound having a coach right now,
I'm really focused on, you know, nurturing my body, my nervous
system.
So I have a physio thatspecializes in this area and I'm
(52:35):
with him every single weekbecause I really need to nurture
my body and really bring downthat fight and flight as much as
I possibly can.
I'm a fairly grounded person,but really really looking after
my body and nurturing that iswhere my focus is right at this
(52:57):
point, and I think we have to dothat.
We can't do it all well, we can, but what I'm saying is that
for me, my priority at themoment is my physiology.
It's really critical, and thenyou know, who knows what will
happen, you know, in two monthsfrom now.
Walt Bayliss (53:12):
I'm not surprised by the way.
I'm really not surprised.
I said to you before we startedrecording that making me look
good would be easy for me.
I think I'm not surprised justpurely because you've done that
journey of philosophicalunderstanding of who you are and
where you're headed, and youknow the pathway that's there
and the emotional wisdom, thewisdom currency as you're
calling it.
I'm not surprised now thatyou've ventured into the
physical to understand that aswell and get a great
(53:33):
understanding of the wholepicture, and you know there's so
many different facets of thatthat you can call on.
This to me is a true guidingconversation, you and I.
I think I'm hoping that aspeople are listening to this,
they're recognizing that, a it'sokay to be me.
A and B it doesn't matter.
If I believe it strongly enough, then I can make something
(53:56):
happen.
All this way down the path, Ihope people are understanding
that if you're in a dark place,there's light and it's been
achieved and it's definitelysomething that you can walk
towards.
As I look atmaryhendersoncoaching.
com and I look at people beingable to find you on Instagram
and Facebook and LinkedInespecially, where will we see
you and your influence and yourtouch points in the world.
(54:18):
Where will we see you over thenext 12 months?
Mary Henderson (54:20):
I think that I'm going to really amplify my
presence across LinkedIn.
I think that LinkedIn is such amajor opportunity for so many
entrepreneurs, especially whenyou think that there's only 1
billion users on LinkedIn andonly 3% of those users are
creating content.
I would say that 80% of thecontent is pretty average.
(54:43):
So there's major, majoropportunity there for all of us
all of us, and we have to thinklike that.
There's a tribe that I believeis dedicated to every single one
of us, you know, because thewhole point is to share our
wisdom, isn't it, you know?
So I think that, for me, I'mreally really focused on
(55:03):
amplifying my presence onLinkedIn, but very strategically
and deliberately, Walt, notjust for anyone.
I am not a one size fits all,and that's exactly the way I
want it to be, because when youhave that mindset and I hope
that everyone takes a page outof my book when you have a
mindset that I am not foreveryone, but I am for these
(55:26):
people, only serve those people.
I call them your 10%.
Don't worry about the 90%.
The 90% are not loyal, theydon't care about you, they never
will advocate for you.
Let them go.
It's the 10% that you want tofocus on, and that's where I'm
at.
Walt Bayliss (55:42):
I love it.
I love it.
And for those who just heardthat and went oh, I can just
spam the crap out of LinkedIn,that's not what Mary's saying.
And in fact, if you want toknow what Mary's saying, come
over to LinkedIn, just type inMary Henderson We'll make sure
that the links are all the waythrough our show notes and et
cetera, because you will see theabsolute, clear example of what
Mary's talking about beingyourself and authenticity comes
(56:04):
with the very nature of who youare and what you're doing.
Don't try and copy anybodyelse's.
Don't copy and paste content.
Worst thing you can possibly doBe yourself, because people
just cannot wait to hear fromyou.
And again, like, look at theexample set by Mary.
Being yourself and holding trueto that, that North star
message that you have has ledyou to become a leader.
(56:24):
As you said, four books whereyou've got coaching system set
up and ready to go.
Guys, if you want to followanybody, come across and learn
from Mary.
I'm just going to say, from ourcommunity, from myself
personally.
Thank you for the time.
Amazing to actually be able tosit with you for an hour or so
and talk about how entrepreneurs, how startup founders, side
(56:44):
hustlers, salespeople how we canall find that true north within
ourselves, understand that wedo have a voice and we have that
wisdom, currency inside of us,and taking that out into the
marketplace is exactly what weshould be doing.
So I want to say thank you fromour listeners and from myself.
I cannot wait to see what theirfuture's got in us.
(57:05):
You do come back and check withus and tell us what's going on,
because we'd love to hear it.
Mary, you're a real pleasure tohave on.
Thanks, Walt.
Mary Henderson (57:11):
Thank you so much, Walt, I really appreciate
it.
Walt Bayliss (57:14):
Awesome to see you .
All right guys.
Thank you so much.
Mary Henderson, I will makesure that you've got that link
in the show notes.
It's maryhendersoncoaching.
com.
And again, if you want tofollow a true leader in the
space of personal branding, inthe space of finding your own
voice and being able to presentthat to the world, there's
nobody better out there.
Mary, again, thank you so muchand we'll look forward to seeing
you on the next episode.
(57:34):
Thank you.
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