June 25, 2025 • 38 mins
From Googling “gift-giving companies” in college to becoming the Community Relationship Strategist at GIFT·OLOGY, Sara Hardwick’s journey is proof that genuine connection still wins in business.
Working closely with the late John Ruhlin—author of GIFT·OLOGY and a pioneer of relationship-first leadership—Sara now carries forward his legacy through the Rich Relationship Society and their newest release, Beyond Gift·ology.
In this episode, we unpack:
✨ How thoughtful gifting creates "peak moments" that cement long-term partnerships
📦 Why home-delivered gifts outperform workplace drops
🚫 What to avoid when gifting (hint: no branded merch or wine baskets)
💌 How Gen Z professionals can stand out with handwritten notes and real-world connection strategies
🧠 The business psychology behind “useful luxury” and lasting impressions
GIFT·OLOGY isn’t just about gifts—it’s a strategic framework for turning networks into next-level referral engines.
Influencers: Add a powerful monetisation strategy to your audience. Click Here
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Walt Bayliss (00:00):
Today's episode of the Influencer Empires podcast
is brought to you by the EmpireProgram with White Label Suite
powering our influencers andbuilding their empires.
Ladies and gentlemen, thank youso much for joining us here on
the show.
At Influencer Empires Today, wehave the unbelievable privilege
of standing next to someone wholives, eats, sleeps and
breathes the relationships thatare needed to grow that kind of
(00:23):
following in the influencerspace.
She has come straight out ofcollege and is now working for
one of the best known companiesin the world.
Following in the legacy of thegreat John Rulon, she is the
community relationshipstrategist and the head of the
Rich Relationship Society overat Givdology, and it gives me
great pleasure to welcome to theshow Ms Sarah Hartwick.
(00:45):
Sarah, thank you so much forjoining us.
Sara Hardwick (00:47):
Oh, thank you for having me, and what a great
intro.
That's so fun.
Walt Bayliss (00:51):
So there's probably a ton of stuff that
we've missed from that intro,but I've got a couple of little
stories.
So one of them is that you havethis incredible position at
Giftology because you were incollege and you were Googling
gift-giving companies and endedup working for the same brand.
Is that right?
Sara Hardwick (01:10):
That is correct.
I mean, shout out toGiftology's SEO, right, that was
the first thing that popped up.
But yeah, I was at a careerseminar in college.
My best friend, chloe, nudgedme, encouraged me, if you will,
to Google.
The exercise was like Google,something that you're really
good at, put the word companybehind it and Chloe's like
(01:30):
Google gift-giving companies,like you know, not math or
anything the little bit more ofthe boring side which probably I
would have leaned myselfGift-giving companies, giftology
came up.
I messaged John Ran on linkedinand the rest is history.
Started working there incollege, graduated and and still
I'm here today amazing, amazing.
Walt Bayliss (01:52):
So messaging john, I mean I what an incredible
testament to, to who the man wasthat he responded you engaged
and, uh, ended up working there.
Tell me about the, theleadership.
So the great john rulan passingaway last year was an
incredible shock for so manypeople around the world.
But tell me about theengagement with John, tell me
about his leadership and who hewas to you.
Sara Hardwick (02:14):
Oh well, just how he ran his company.
I mean, he ran it like he ranhis family, right.
Like so caring, so thoughtful,so meaningful with your time and
, I think, as employees, asindividuals that are entering
into the workforce, that'ssomething we all look for but
unfortunately, is not found inevery single leader.
(02:35):
Just a few things aboutGiftology Group that John used
to always talk about as he ledthis organization like, we have
some date nights paid for us andour significant other, right.
We work from home, so a lot ofus working from home.
They pay for a cleaning serviceto come in a couple times a
(02:57):
month, right.
Those are the things.
Also when we talk aboutrelationships, those are the
things that you remember aboutpeople that show that you truly,
truly care.
And John, as a leader and aboss, showed up in so many ways
like that apart from the gifting, which, of course, he did that
too to just truly set thegroundwork for a company now
(03:20):
that lives on in his legacy andstill we have so much meaning
and heart behind it.
Walt Bayliss (03:27):
Wow, that's so unbelievably cool Like that.
I've never heard of anythinglike that, where the engagement
at the employee level is justbeing looked after and made to
feel special.
Sara Hardwick (03:37):
Absolutely.
I mean, and those are thethings people talk about over.
You know you have to have the401k and all this other stuff,
but that's the type of thingsthat keeps employees engaged and
excited and showing up in thosereally hard moments for their
leader, for their employer.
It's like I feel seen.
I feel like I'm more than justa number, an employee.
(03:58):
I'm a human being and I thinkthat leadership is just
something that I'm so gratefulto have experienced in John and
continue to experience in theleadership here at Giftology.
Walt Bayliss (04:11):
And it's such a legacy that carries on.
And, of course, we can't speakabout the legacy of Giftology
without talking about the book,the last book as John released
and it's now availableeverywhere.
But it's beyond Giftology, it'sthe book that is taking that
one step further.
Tell us about your experiencesthere.
Sara Hardwick (04:30):
Yeah, I mean, what really got me on board with
the mission when I firststarted looking into Giftology
and John was his first book,giftology, which a ton of people
know and love and really turnedinto kind of disrupt yeah, like
disrupt a lot of businessesthinking about how they were
showing up meaningfully fortheir clients, their employees,
(04:51):
those key relationships withgifting no more gift baskets, no
more branded things like showup meaningfully.
What that book captured wasthat mindset shift of gifting.
But really the heart of whatJohn always preached and thought
and what our business standsfor is that relationships can
(05:12):
take you places.
Marketing can't that.
Yes, absolutely, gifting is avehicle that you can invest in
those relationships.
But really there's a lot ofother elements to this kind of
relationship formula, if youwill, to running a service-based
business, like anything thatyou are relying on
human-to-human connection for.
(05:32):
Beyond giftology goes beyondjust the gifting concepts and
really breaks down aword-of-mouth referral strategy
for people to plug into theirbusiness.
Walt Bayliss (05:42):
Wow, and I think there's so many businesses
around that rely on that word ofmouth strategy.
I mean, I stood in a room I wasteaching advertising or
something along that line, andasking people what's their main
form of inbound leads right now,and they all literally all said
word of mouth.
So taking this strategy intothat environment really works as
(06:03):
an accelerator.
Sara Hardwick (06:10):
Absolutely, and I think what's funny about that?
Right, like so many businessesspend so much time developing
this really intricate marketingplan, and then we have a sales
system and we have this overhere and it comes back typically
for a lot of small businessowners, a lot of service
business professionals, thatthey do rely on word of mouth,
but we don't have a system forit, we don't have a lever, we
don't actually sit down andthink about who are the 10, 20,
(06:34):
30 relationships that I need tomeaningfully touch on, transform
all those things this year sothat my business can grow.
We know that word of mouthmatters, we know that
relationships matter, but wedon't have a system to actually
energize those relationshipsinto referral partners.
Walt Bayliss (06:52):
And talking of a system.
So that's something that abusiness owner can depend on
sorry, that can work every timethat works, without having to
think about it.
So you know, turning thethought of gifting into a system
is a fascinating change for me,because it's something that
businesses just wouldn'ttypically think about.
(07:13):
And can you tell me, just giveme a story or two, about how
turning that into a system hashelped people to expand on this
idea?
Sara Hardwick (07:22):
Oh, absolutely.
I mean, unfortunately, eventhough there's a lot of people
out there, a lot of businessleaders out there that mean well
and are innately greatrelationship builders, in the
busyness of everything that wedo, the relationship ball
typically is the thing thatdrops right.
We need to show up for thisperson.
We mean to call them this day,but it just doesn't end up
(07:45):
happening, especially thoserelationships that aren't top of
mind.
I'm not serving them as aclient right now, I'm not
selling their house right now,but those relationships that
maybe are past clients ornetwork connections, those are
the people that can refer youbusiness, those are the people
that are out in the communitythat can talk highly of you, and
(08:05):
we still need a way to stay infront of those people.
So, from a gifting perspective,I mean, I think, going back to
your question, a lot of peoplekind of react in gifting
Something happens, a transactionhappens, and they send a gift,
or they meet with someone andthey send a gift.
Our philosophy in reallybuilding a system around this
(08:26):
stuff is this isn't this randomthing that we should be doing?
There's a lot of planning andwe say planned randomness to it.
Yes, we want the gift to showup on a random Tuesday to the
recipient and they're like, wow,walt was thinking of me today.
But little do they know we havea whole system in the
(08:51):
background that makes sure younever are forgotten as a
relationship of this businessleader Wow, cool.
Walt Bayliss (08:53):
And is that something that you do at
Giftology?
You literally help thatbusiness owner create that
planned randomness I love thatterm.
Are you working with a businessowner?
Every single time somebodystarts with giftology, they're
sitting down and they're workingthrough that strategy and, in
fact, as the communityrelationship strategist, is that
your role within the company?
Sara Hardwick (09:14):
Absolutely Inside of our community, inside Rich
Relationship Society, we reallyare set on creating these
business leaders relationshipformula Absolutely Gifting is a
variable in your formula, onethat we love, but there's a lot
of other elements, touch points,conversations, better questions
you can be asking right, thatshould be a part of your
(09:35):
relationship formula to growyour business in that way and
that's exactly the people thatwe surround you with inside of
the community.
The course that we have inthere, the coaching, all has
this relationship slant of howcan you grow your business in
this way.
Walt Bayliss (09:53):
Wow, amazing.
So one of the things that wetalk about often is reaching
your ideal client.
Is there a link between openinga relationship with a gift?
I mean, if we have a look at somany different ways of starting
relationships with new businessopportunities, it typically
starts with cold outreach.
It's a never before heard ofconnection.
(10:14):
How does that move into a giftgiving scenario and how does
that help somebody cement thatin place?
Sara Hardwick (10:22):
Yeah Well, you may be surprised by this or
disappointed, and some peoplelistening may be disappointed,
but we kind of do not recommendcold gifting, while definitely
there's a place for it.
It can be fun sometimes and itworks sometimes.
There's a lot of time, energy,effort that is associated with
(10:43):
finding the right person to sendto, finding the right address,
finding the right person to sendto, finding the right address,
finding the right gift to send.
If it lands poorly, you're notgoing to get them.
All of those things actuallyslow down the efficiency of the
system that we are trying topropel forward.
So the way that we like to getyour quote unquote cold
introductions is look for areferral partner into that
(11:06):
person.
We call them a shoulder industrypartner.
So you understanding your idealclient is great, but who else
touches that ideal client?
Who else works with that idealclient?
It's not necessarily acompetitor, right?
Like, if you are a real estateagent and you want to work with
luxury homeowners, are theyworking out with personal
(11:28):
trainers who come over every day?
Are they a part of a luxurygolf club nearby?
Like?
Those are the relationshipsthat you want to build to get
introduced to your ideal client.
You don't have to go in cold.
Walt Bayliss (11:40):
Wow, that's so cool and it actually aligns with
what we talk about in theinfluencer model as well
Thinking about who already hasyour audience and building the
relationship with that personright at the top there, who can
then reach so many thousands ofother people who are right there
in your space.
Super cool, I love that.
So, when we're looking atgifting as a strategy, how do
you know when a relationship isready to go into that gifting
(12:04):
role?
Sara Hardwick (12:06):
Yeah, probably one of the main ways you know
it's ready to be a gifting typeof relationship is if you have
enough information about thatperson.
All of the gifts that we sendhave the recipient's family name
on it.
Typically that's inclusive ofthe person you're talking to and
(12:26):
their spouse's name.
So if you haven't gotten inconversation at all or maybe
can't even find it online theirspouse's name that's probably
not a relationship that you'reready to really take that next
step and invest in.
Also, their address soundssilly, but if you haven't
crossed that point yet that thisperson has felt comfortable
(12:46):
sharing their address or youhaven't felt comfortable asking
for it, that kind of halts oursystem altogether and probably
is a telltale sign for you thatit's not ready to gift.
But I will say while I'm sayinglike you know, don't cold gift
and maybe some people aren'tready for a gift, we absolutely
still encourage generosity.
(13:07):
So if you feel like you want togive someone something, please
do.
There's a lot of other waysalso to demonstrate value in
relationships that maybe aren'tas expensive or feel like as
serious as a gift does.
You can send a handwritten note, right, those small things also
(13:28):
matter so much to buildingrelationships and I think those
things also in the in theinfluencer space probably make
you stand out so much more,because everything's digital.
Like what if you just send ahandwritten thank you note
instead of a handwritten orinstead of a DM, thank you right
.
Walt Bayliss (13:45):
Makes such an amazing difference and, in fact,
the psychology of the personreceiving the gift is something
that I know that giftology hasspent a long time looking at.
Can you walk us through?
How does somebody who wants tosend that gift, even if it is
something small and thoughtful,how do they make sure that they
land?
You used that phraseologybefore.
How do they make sure they land, not just functionally but
(14:07):
emotionally?
Sara Hardwick (14:09):
Yeah, one of the key components of that is where
the gift lands, where you aresending the gift.
So we always try our best toget the home address, because we
want people to.
The psychology of this is likethere's also an element of what
state of mind they are in whenthey open it.
Where they are when they open,it could affect even though it
(14:31):
has nothing to do with you oryour gift that you sent.
It then could affect yourrelationship with that person.
So we want to always send it athome, not tied to work.
If they had a rough day and theycame out of a meeting and then
opened your gift and it was notgood, right, we want this to be
an experience and even more sothan that, we want this gift to
(14:52):
create a peak moment for them.
That's the psychology behind it.
We want that moment of openingthat gift to be something that
they can come back to andremember about your guys'
relationship, even when businessgets hard or maybe you guys
haven't talked in two years,right.
Sometimes you'll alwaysremember wow, I remember when
so-and-so sent me this, andthose peak moments are really
(15:15):
what gifting the giftology waycreates.
Walt Bayliss (15:18):
That's amazing, because thinking about getting
attention is, I guess, the pieceof marketing that so many
people struggle with, is gettingthat attention.
But keeping that memory, thatremembrance keeping top of mind,
wow, the long lasting effect ofthat goes so far beyond a Zoom
call, so far even beyond acoffee meeting.
(15:39):
It's something that stays withpeople for so much longer.
Yeah.
Sara Hardwick (15:43):
Yeah, I mean we're going down the whole
giftology checklist here,because another one of our key
principles is that the giftshould be a practical luxury, so
something that they use everyday, so that they stay top of
mind right, like if I'm in mykitchen every day cooking for my
family and I'm using the knifethat you sent me, I'm thinking
(16:04):
of you.
Even though your brand logo isan honor or anything, I'm
subconsciously thinking of youin some way every single day,
and that's why we reallyencourage gifts that land and
live in the center of the home,that are for the whole family,
that help people break breadtogether, and not something
that's going to go in the cornerof somebody's office or, worse,
(16:25):
in the trash.
Walt Bayliss (16:27):
Wow, amazing Thinking about that specifically
.
I know there's a great quotewhich says if you send a gift
for your brand on it, it'smarketing, but if you send a
gift with their name on it,that's gifting.
So thinking about that, evenjust voicing that out loud a
gift that lands in the center ofthe home, that the family
engages with and keeps thatrelationship moving, it's so
incredible Thinking about that.
(16:48):
Sarah, are there mistakes thatpeople make with gifting that
can actually sour thingssomewhat?
Sara Hardwick (16:55):
Yeah, I think the biggest one honestly falls in
the category of food, even today, food and consumables and
alcohol.
Because the gifting philosophyand why we don't do that is it
doesn't last, right, oncesomeone eats it, then they don't
think of you anymore.
Once they finish that bottle ofwine they don't think of you
(17:16):
anymore.
But the sour side of thingsreally there is so many people
are gluten-free, so many peopleright like maybe they have a
history of substance abuse orsomething you don't know about
them and are now entering intotheir home with something that
may actually come off a littleoffensive, or even not that, but
(17:36):
just like wow, you actuallydon't know me that well.
And that does not help in thatrelationship capital building at
all.
So we try to encourage peopleto stay away from food, stay
away from alcohol.
There's just too many risksinvolved, unless you surely know
that somebody mentioned theylove sharing an X bottle of wine
with their wife and you want togift that to them.
(17:59):
But on a larger scale, that'skind of the one rule of thumb to
stay away from.
Walt Bayliss (18:04):
Yeah, that's nice, that's awesome.
I think I'd love to dive in alittle bit in terms of the
relationship side of things.
In a digital world that we livein now, and especially forgive
me but somebody who is in theGen Z space, how do you find
that the relationship I guessattraction and momentum that's
(18:25):
created with giftology, how doyou find that fits within our
digital world today and for ouryounger audiences who are
fast-paced and moving quickly?
How does that all fit intophilosophy and strategy and the
feelings that you have in thatkind of world?
Sara Hardwick (18:42):
It's huge.
I've seen it firsthand.
Yes, you're right, I am in GenZ, so I understand the digital
world that we all live in areobsessed with.
Our work is on it.
Everything revolves aroundsocial media, online presence.
I get it.
(19:04):
You're looking for even atypical corporate job like
LinkedIn's the place.
I totally go the other way.
I think the way you are able inthis world now to build
relationships offline isabsolutely your strongest asset.
Yes, have an online presence.
Yes, have all these things, butit's going to be those little
(19:25):
moments where you do show upoffline that make you stand out.
I mentioned earlier thehandwritten notes piece.
Like everyone's sending emails,everyone's sending texts.
What if you showed up with ahandwritten note instead of an
email?
It's that little touch thatwill always make you stand out.
I used to walk aroundnetworking events where everyone
(19:45):
was handing out their businesscard and everyone was handing
out resumes and I used to pickthe five people that I wanted to
build a relationship with most,go into a little corner.
I had handwritten notes in mybag, write out those notes to
the people and go back and givethem that.
I'm sure I don't have anymetrics on this.
Walt Bayliss (20:02):
Wow, that's actually.
That's so, ninja, that strategy.
Sara Hardwick (20:05):
Right, thanks, but I mean that I'm sure got me
a lot more calls or interviewsor podcasts or whatever you are
looking for than me followingthem on Instagram, then me
connecting with them on LinkedIn.
So I think that now more thanever, actually our generation
Gen Z should really like hone inon their ability to build
(20:28):
relationships offline.
Have a little something in yourback pocket that you can always
whip out and it's kind of likeyour secret strength handwritten
notes.
I send video messages all thetime.
That was John's specialty.
Copied him on that one.
Instead of a phone call orsomething like that, I'm going
to send you a video text messageand show up that way.
(20:50):
So there's a lot of relationaltouch points that will stand out
in this online world for sure.
Walt Bayliss (20:58):
Unreal.
Speaking of touch points, I wasat a marketing conference just
a few days ago and they weretalking about the fact that the
touch points have increased sodramatically from in a creation
of trust.
So it used to be that youneeded four touch points to be
able to make a sale.
Now what people are talkingabout is there's 22 touch points
and that shows such, a, I guess, displacement of trust.
(21:22):
So there's a real trust deficitin marketing and in people
showing up in all your feeds etcetera, that that trust needs to
be enhanced by so much moreactivity in the space.
How do you see that giftingfits into that multiple touch
points and trust base?
I'm going to kind of preface itby thinking it accelerates the
(21:43):
heck out of it, but I just loveyour take on it.
Sara Hardwick (21:45):
Yeah, absolutely.
I do think that giftingprobably takes up a few emails,
calls, right.
That is a couple of touchpoints.
In itself.
You get extra brownie pointsfor the gifting and the gift
showing up.
But what I would also say inthe heart of what we do in
relationship building and usingyour network, especially when it
(22:06):
comes to this element of trust,is trust is transferred and if
that is something that you canutilize, the people in your
corner, the raving fans that youhave to get introduced again to
your ideal client, to someoneelse that you're looking to work
with, to a potential partner.
That's where I think trust likeis the most valuable is in the
(22:31):
people that are willing toadvocate for you, not just in
building trust, you know, to aclient or to a prospect, but
really building trust around youso that can be transferred and
hopefully then you're notrunning around crazy sending 20
emails, 20 touch points, all thethings when trying to close a
sale.
Walt Bayliss (22:49):
Yeah, definitely, and I love that that trust is
transferred and in terms of interms of gifting, I mean, it's
something so unique and sospecial to be able to send
something.
But also, you know, as arecipient, to be able to get
something so special really doeschange things and taking that
forward, you can see how thattrust really comes across with
that thoughtful notion and, ofcourse, as you said, not
(23:12):
randomized but strategic in theway that that's being done.
I'd love to ask you someinteresting gift scenarios that
you've seen.
What's the most unexpectedlymeaningful gift you've seen sent
personally?
Sara Hardwick (23:29):
Oh gosh.
Well, I just sent a.
One of my colleagues that Iwork with is a big New England
Patriots fan.
I've known this for a while andI was actually able, through a
few friends which I'm reallypeak meaningful moments for
people, not at scale or notbecause of any outcome in
relationships, but truly justbecause you care and I care
(24:03):
about this team member.
So so much.
This gift took a while to, youknow, get the jersey, get where
it needed to go and all thethings, but that's, that's a
story that now I will hold soclose.
Walt Bayliss (24:16):
One of our other- it's a relationship for life,
for sure.
Sara Hardwick (24:20):
Absolutely.
One of our other team members,just talking about John, again
shared in Austin, texas, when wewere launching this final book
Beyond Giftology, that one timeshe was on the phone with John
talking about how annoying itwas for her to juice for her
family and have to clean all thepieces after and the juicer.
(24:44):
She had had so many parts andshe's right, all those things
and that complaint then sparkedhim to send her a new, better,
updated all the things juicer.
So I think, when it comes tocreating those peak moments,
it's really about activelistening as much as like.
We've all heard this as areally great communication tool,
(25:04):
but it really is the first stepin what then can spark those
really amazing, amazing stories.
Walt Bayliss (25:13):
Amazing, and so those, those stories are are so
wow, Like the, the, the Jersey,I mean, that's just.
That's above and beyond.
As businesses are growing, it'sfascinating to me, Sarah, to
think that this personalizedapproach to gifting can can grow
with the business.
How does, how does a businessgift at scale without losing its
(25:35):
soul?
Sara Hardwick (25:38):
Without losing its soul.
I've never had the questionasked like that before, walt.
My quick answer and easy answerwould be they use us, they work
with us.
Walt Bayliss (25:49):
Nice, beautiful plug, that's great.
I mean, of course work with us.
Sara Hardwick (25:52):
That's a beautiful plug.
That's great.
I mean, of course, truly, whatour team does day in and day out
is they take large lists ofrelationships from huge
companies all the way down to asmall business owner who has 20
key relationships right withtheir addresses, and we build
out that gifting strategy thatgets sent out at scale in mass
(26:14):
so that nobody needs to go toUPS themselves and make sure
everything is engraved correctlyand all those things.
That truly is how we do it atscale.
Now, inside of our RichRelationship Society community,
these are all small businessowners who are creating systems
to do these things efficientlythemselves, to do these things
(26:35):
at scale themselves.
Going back to the handwrittennote, we tell people all the
time you can bulk, write yourhandwritten notes and leave a
little space at the bottom.
Make sure you always have thatpen that you wrote with right,
but like, leave a little spaceat the bottom.
That's where you add in thelast sentence.
That really makes it personaland meaningful.
But ultimately there's a lot ofthings that we can do to
(26:58):
systematize this relationshipbuilding process that we just
don't sit down and actuallythink about.
Walt Bayliss (27:06):
Yeah, absolutely, and I guess the question's a
little bit convoluted becauseyou're talking about the special
relationships and making surethat it's something unique and
personal.
And, of course, in theinfluencer space, we interviewed
one of our influencers justrecently who has nearly a
billion views on YouTube.
That's a heck of a lot ofhandwritten notes, but we're
(27:26):
talking about those key,strategic VIPs that can take
that relationship up to the nextlevel being able, as we
mentioned, getting hold of theperson who can introduce you to
that next level.
So that's one gift or one touchpoint that can then flow down
to that audience, which is very,very cool.
So, sarah, if I had to, if Ihad to ask you, so let me just
put a scenario in front of youand then we'll talk about that.
(27:48):
Beyond giftology, which I'd loveto do a little bit, I'm sure
that everybody listening isgoing I'm in, I want to create
those relationships, expand mynetwork, increase my touch,
increase my trust.
I'm in, I want to do it.
If a business owner right nowhad just $50 to spend on a VIP
client, how would you suggestthat they spend that in the best
(28:08):
possible and most personal way?
Sara Hardwick (28:11):
I would suggest a low cost demonstration of value
like a handwritten note, unlessyou know something about that
individual where you reallythink like this is I call them
relational golden nuggets right,like this is a relational
golden nugget.
They told me this one time overcoffee and I remembered it and
you can show up in that reallymeaningful way.
(28:32):
I'm always going to revert backto the handwritten note that I
don't.
I don't know what that lookslike in Australia, postage wise
and all the things, but 75 centsover here, ish.
Walt Bayliss (28:44):
So that's something that's about the same
here.
I mean, it's you still gotchange out of your 50s, so
you're pretty good.
Sara Hardwick (28:50):
Exactly, exactly, and I think there's.
There are so many ways thateven don't cost a dime for us to
still show up and add value toour relationships.
We can introduce them tosomebody as well, even if it's
not a professional introduction,not a professional referral.
You hear that.
You know they have a couple ofkids at home and they're wanting
(29:12):
to go on a date night withtheir spouse soon.
Recommend a babysitter, putthem in a three-way taxi with a
babysitter.
Those small things, I think,matter so much more.
And John always used to saythis it truly is not about the
gift, it's not at all.
The gift that you send doesn'tmatter, it does a little, but
(29:33):
it's truly about therelationship.
The gift is just a vehicle forbuilding that relationship, and
there's a lot of other vehiclesas well.
Walt Bayliss (29:41):
That's so cool.
How does somebody get startedwith giftology in the easiest
way?
You mentioned in the communitythere, and you guys have got
some incredible business ownersthere, the Rich Relationship
Society.
Is there a way that people canget started with giftology
easily?
They don't have to get into abillion dollar campaign with you
although I'm sure that that'spossible as you're going through
but how do they get startedwith you in the most
cost-effective and easiest wayto get started?
Sara Hardwick (30:02):
Yeah, start with our education.
Buy Beyond Giftology the book,buy Giftology John's first book
and just dive in and understandour philosophy If it speaks to
you.
There's plenty of opportunitiesto kind of step up that
thinking, step up those systemsinside of rich relationship
society and that's where we havea lot of service-based business
(30:24):
professionals, small businessowners, salespreneurs that are
looking to really level up andsystematize their relationship
formula.
If you do, you do, like yousaid, want to spend a billion
dollars on gifts.
We're also the people for that.
But I think people just gettingstarted and really having a
different mindset aroundrelationships, around gifting,
(30:47):
its power, can be done startingand reading our books.
Walt Bayliss (30:51):
Nice, I love it.
And so, moving from Giftology,which was John's book and,
honestly, a disruptive book, asyou said, he was really the
icebreaker for this philosophyand definitely leading the
charge.
So Giftology, opening that ideafor so many business owners, so
many entrepreneurs, so manysalespeople to lead the way with
(31:12):
gifting, and he will always beremembered for that, going into
that last book, Beyond Giftology.
Tell me about the team now inmemory of John and the Beyond
Giftology book that's nowavailable for sale, and how the
team have rallied behind gettingthat message out into the
marketplace.
Sara Hardwick (31:30):
Oh, I cannot say more good things about our team.
I am so grateful to workalongside and be supported by
all of the amazing people inthis organization.
It truly was a team effortgetting this to the finish line.
There's a lot of specificpeople who absolutely know how
(31:51):
much they mean to us and therelationships that supported us
along the way.
I think that's just a testamentto everything that we even
teach in the book your legacy,the people that you impact,
those are the people that showup for you in those hard moments
, and John impacted so manypeople, including his own team,
(32:14):
his staff, us here at Giftologythat during this hard period and
making sure this book got tothe finish line, I mean everyone
stepped up Long hours blood,sweat and tears, all the things
and I'm just grateful that I canbe here at least speaking that
same philosophy that I know Johnwould be doing so much better
(32:37):
than me, by the way to a largeraudience and just really
allowing people to understandthat there is a better way to do
business and that relationshipscan take you places.
Marketing can't.
Walt Bayliss (32:50):
Nice.
I love it.
And is there a goalpost for thedistribution of the book?
Are you guys?
Have you got a number up on thewall somewhere that you're
working towards?
How many copies are we lookingto get out there?
Sara Hardwick (32:59):
I do not have a number on the wall, thankfully.
Again so grateful for our team.
I definitely have now beenswept out of some of that book
focus and am on to RichRelationship Society and growing
our community and ourmembership because we are just
so excited about that.
So I'm sure there's some teammembers if you guys are
(33:20):
listening to this that have anumber that might definitely be
sitting on their whiteboardsomewhere in their home office.
But again, so grateful that wehave a team that's behind that
and it's not me, because I wouldnot be doing the best job.
Walt Bayliss (33:35):
I'm sure John would disagree.
But so, guys, as you'relistening, you can help the team
hit that number just bychecking out Beyond Giftology at
your favorite bookstore, sarah.
So you don't have the number onthe wall of the book
distribution, but you areworking, as you said, hard in
the Rich Relationship Societyand as your specific role with
the community relationshipstrategist there at Giftology.
(33:55):
What is your, I guess?
Let's talk company-wise.
What will we see on the horizonfor Giftology?
What will we see you guys doing?
Sara Hardwick (34:05):
Yeah, I think really broadening our scope of
education and this idea ofreturn on relationship.
That's something that Johnmentioned in his first book
Giftology but has really taken anew shape in beyond giftology
and also in our richrelationship society about how
can we truly help businessowners not just gift because
(34:27):
we've always been great at that,we will continue to be great at
that but truly get the most outof the relationships that they
have built.
We have so many people thathave such vast networks They've
been going to networking eventsforever, they've had multiple
careers but they just reallytruly haven't been able to
energize those networks intosomething meaningful for their
(34:47):
business and we feel verypassionately about.
We have the playbook for howyou can do that and we just want
to help as many servicebusiness professionals that we
can do just that.
It feels good also to be inbusiness with friends, to have
relationships as a strategy inyour business right.
(35:08):
To me personally, it's a lotless tiring.
I'm very energized talking topeople.
Well, I hope you can see thatit's a lot less tiring than
building all the funnels andmaking sure the ads are perfect
and all the things right.
So I think there's a lot ofpeople business leaders out
there that feel the same and wejust hope to come in, support
(35:28):
them and hopefully grow theirbusiness with them.
Walt Bayliss (35:32):
Fantastic.
Well, let's make sure thatthat's possible.
What's the best way for peopleto get involved with Giftology,
sarah, and follow along with youpersonally?
I'm seeing you're getting anice following there on your own
Instagram accounts and a fewthings there, so what's the best
way for people to keep in touchwith you and, as you're
developing the channels therewith Giftology, how are people
(35:53):
going to stay in touch there?
Sara Hardwick (35:54):
Yeah Well, since we kind of like you know, have
taken this stance of like again,social media and offline.
I really stay away fromInstagram, but LinkedIn is the
place that anybody can find me,sarah Hardwick, on LinkedIn.
I'm all about relationships, sowould love to connect with
anyone listening that'sinterested in learning more.
But we also can be found atgiftologygroupcom.
(36:16):
That will point you in theright direction of anywhere you
need to go, whether it's buyingthe book, joining Rich
Relationship Society or thinkingabout gifting with us.
Walt Bayliss (36:24):
Absolutely amazing .
So, so, so cool, you guys, andin today's digital world, that
special touch, that trusttransfer, as Sarah was talking
about, can be something that canbe built with the help of
giftology, with the strategythat goes behind that that's
going to ensure that yourcommunication, your networks and
your relationships arecontinuing to be developed.
(36:46):
We often talk about ROI and Ilove the return on relationships
as an idea and the joy as yousaid man, as a marketer myself,
the joy of creating arelationship rather than
creating a funnel man.
That goes without saying.
It's real hard to have abarbecue with a funnel.
So it's so nice to hear thismessage, sarah, and, of course,
taking John's legacy forward,that, beyond Giftology, starting
(37:09):
with giftology, opening thedoor to relationships through
the power of gifting, and thenon and beyond.
I hope, guys, as you'relistening to this from the
Influencer Empires program,you're understanding that
there's a lot of, I guess,capital that can be generated by
the philosophy of gifting.
That's why we wanted Sarah tocome on and tell us all about it
.
Sarah, thank you so much forthe opportunity to understand
(37:31):
the philosophy behind John'steaching.
Tell us all about it, sarah.
Thank you so much for theopportunity to understand the
philosophy behind John's,teaching the amazing power, and
I guess even just the storyabout the cleaners and
everything in the home andmaking sure that that's
something that is engaged intothe team can really show the
power of those relationshipsmoving forward.
Sarah, I appreciate you, Iappreciate your time, thank you
so much and, guys, make sureyou're getting into Giftology
and checking it all out.
Thank you, Sarah.
Sara Hardwick (37:52):
Thank you, Walt.
Today's episode of the Influencer Empires podcast
is brought to you by the EmpireProgram with White Label Suite
powering our influencers andbuilding their empires.
Ladies and gentlemen, thank youso much for joining us here on
the show.
At Influencer Empires Today, wehave the unbelievable privilege
of standing next to someone wholives, eats, sleeps and
breathes the relationships thatare needed to grow that kind of
(00:23):
following in the influencerspace.
She has come straight out ofcollege and is now working for
one of the best known companiesin the world.
Following in the legacy of thegreat John Rulon, she is the
community relationshipstrategist and the head of the
Rich Relationship Society overat Givdology, and it gives me
great pleasure to welcome to theshow Ms Sarah Hartwick.
(00:45):
Sarah, thank you so much forjoining us.
Sara Hardwick (00:47):
Oh, thank you for having me, and what a great
intro.
That's so fun.
Walt Bayliss (00:51):
So there's probably a ton of stuff that
we've missed from that intro,but I've got a couple of little
stories.
So one of them is that you havethis incredible position at
Giftology because you were incollege and you were Googling
gift-giving companies and endedup working for the same brand.
Is that right?
Sara Hardwick (01:10):
That is correct.
I mean, shout out toGiftology's SEO, right, that was
the first thing that popped up.
But yeah, I was at a careerseminar in college.
My best friend, chloe, nudgedme, encouraged me, if you will,
to Google.
The exercise was like Google,something that you're really
good at, put the word companybehind it and Chloe's like
(01:30):
Google gift-giving companies,like you know, not math or
anything the little bit more ofthe boring side which probably I
would have leaned myselfGift-giving companies, giftology
came up.
I messaged John Ran on linkedinand the rest is history.
Started working there incollege, graduated and and still
I'm here today amazing, amazing.
Walt Bayliss (01:52):
So messaging john, I mean I what an incredible
testament to, to who the man wasthat he responded you engaged
and, uh, ended up working there.
Tell me about the, theleadership.
So the great john rulan passingaway last year was an
incredible shock for so manypeople around the world.
But tell me about theengagement with John, tell me
about his leadership and who hewas to you.
Sara Hardwick (02:14):
Oh well, just how he ran his company.
I mean, he ran it like he ranhis family, right.
Like so caring, so thoughtful,so meaningful with your time and
, I think, as employees, asindividuals that are entering
into the workforce, that'ssomething we all look for but
unfortunately, is not found inevery single leader.
(02:35):
Just a few things aboutGiftology Group that John used
to always talk about as he ledthis organization like, we have
some date nights paid for us andour significant other, right.
We work from home, so a lot ofus working from home.
They pay for a cleaning serviceto come in a couple times a
(02:57):
month, right.
Those are the things.
Also when we talk aboutrelationships, those are the
things that you remember aboutpeople that show that you truly,
truly care.
And John, as a leader and aboss, showed up in so many ways
like that apart from the gifting, which, of course, he did that
too to just truly set thegroundwork for a company now
(03:20):
that lives on in his legacy andstill we have so much meaning
and heart behind it.
Walt Bayliss (03:27):
Wow, that's so unbelievably cool Like that.
I've never heard of anythinglike that, where the engagement
at the employee level is justbeing looked after and made to
feel special.
Sara Hardwick (03:37):
Absolutely.
I mean, and those are thethings people talk about over.
You know you have to have the401k and all this other stuff,
but that's the type of thingsthat keeps employees engaged and
excited and showing up in thosereally hard moments for their
leader, for their employer.
It's like I feel seen.
I feel like I'm more than justa number, an employee.
(03:58):
I'm a human being and I thinkthat leadership is just
something that I'm so gratefulto have experienced in John and
continue to experience in theleadership here at Giftology.
Walt Bayliss (04:11):
And it's such a legacy that carries on.
And, of course, we can't speakabout the legacy of Giftology
without talking about the book,the last book as John released
and it's now availableeverywhere.
But it's beyond Giftology, it'sthe book that is taking that
one step further.
Tell us about your experiencesthere.
Sara Hardwick (04:30):
Yeah, I mean, what really got me on board with
the mission when I firststarted looking into Giftology
and John was his first book,giftology, which a ton of people
know and love and really turnedinto kind of disrupt yeah, like
disrupt a lot of businessesthinking about how they were
showing up meaningfully fortheir clients, their employees,
(04:51):
those key relationships withgifting no more gift baskets, no
more branded things like showup meaningfully.
What that book captured wasthat mindset shift of gifting.
But really the heart of whatJohn always preached and thought
and what our business standsfor is that relationships can
(05:12):
take you places.
Marketing can't that.
Yes, absolutely, gifting is avehicle that you can invest in
those relationships.
But really there's a lot ofother elements to this kind of
relationship formula, if youwill, to running a service-based
business, like anything thatyou are relying on
human-to-human connection for.
(05:32):
Beyond giftology goes beyondjust the gifting concepts and
really breaks down aword-of-mouth referral strategy
for people to plug into theirbusiness.
Walt Bayliss (05:42):
Wow, and I think there's so many businesses
around that rely on that word ofmouth strategy.
I mean, I stood in a room I wasteaching advertising or
something along that line, andasking people what's their main
form of inbound leads right now,and they all literally all said
word of mouth.
So taking this strategy intothat environment really works as
(06:03):
an accelerator.
Sara Hardwick (06:10):
Absolutely, and I think what's funny about that?
Right, like so many businessesspend so much time developing
this really intricate marketingplan, and then we have a sales
system and we have this overhere and it comes back typically
for a lot of small businessowners, a lot of service
business professionals, thatthey do rely on word of mouth,
but we don't have a system forit, we don't have a lever, we
don't actually sit down andthink about who are the 10, 20,
(06:34):
30 relationships that I need tomeaningfully touch on, transform
all those things this year sothat my business can grow.
We know that word of mouthmatters, we know that
relationships matter, but wedon't have a system to actually
energize those relationshipsinto referral partners.
Walt Bayliss (06:52):
And talking of a system.
So that's something that abusiness owner can depend on
sorry, that can work every timethat works, without having to
think about it.
So you know, turning thethought of gifting into a system
is a fascinating change for me,because it's something that
businesses just wouldn'ttypically think about.
(07:13):
And can you tell me, just giveme a story or two, about how
turning that into a system hashelped people to expand on this
idea?
Sara Hardwick (07:22):
Oh, absolutely.
I mean, unfortunately, eventhough there's a lot of people
out there, a lot of businessleaders out there that mean well
and are innately greatrelationship builders, in the
busyness of everything that wedo, the relationship ball
typically is the thing thatdrops right.
We need to show up for thisperson.
We mean to call them this day,but it just doesn't end up
(07:45):
happening, especially thoserelationships that aren't top of
mind.
I'm not serving them as aclient right now, I'm not
selling their house right now,but those relationships that
maybe are past clients ornetwork connections, those are
the people that can refer youbusiness, those are the people
that are out in the communitythat can talk highly of you, and
(08:05):
we still need a way to stay infront of those people.
So, from a gifting perspective,I mean, I think, going back to
your question, a lot of peoplekind of react in gifting
Something happens, a transactionhappens, and they send a gift,
or they meet with someone andthey send a gift.
Our philosophy in reallybuilding a system around this
(08:26):
stuff is this isn't this randomthing that we should be doing?
There's a lot of planning andwe say planned randomness to it.
Yes, we want the gift to showup on a random Tuesday to the
recipient and they're like, wow,walt was thinking of me today.
But little do they know we havea whole system in the
(08:51):
background that makes sure younever are forgotten as a
relationship of this businessleader Wow, cool.
Walt Bayliss (08:53):
And is that something that you do at
Giftology?
You literally help thatbusiness owner create that
planned randomness I love thatterm.
Are you working with a businessowner?
Every single time somebodystarts with giftology, they're
sitting down and they're workingthrough that strategy and, in
fact, as the communityrelationship strategist, is that
your role within the company?
Sara Hardwick (09:14):
Absolutely Inside of our community, inside Rich
Relationship Society, we reallyare set on creating these
business leaders relationshipformula Absolutely Gifting is a
variable in your formula, onethat we love, but there's a lot
of other elements, touch points,conversations, better questions
you can be asking right, thatshould be a part of your
(09:35):
relationship formula to growyour business in that way and
that's exactly the people thatwe surround you with inside of
the community.
The course that we have inthere, the coaching, all has
this relationship slant of howcan you grow your business in
this way.
Walt Bayliss (09:53):
Wow, amazing.
So one of the things that wetalk about often is reaching
your ideal client.
Is there a link between openinga relationship with a gift?
I mean, if we have a look at somany different ways of starting
relationships with new businessopportunities, it typically
starts with cold outreach.
It's a never before heard ofconnection.
(10:14):
How does that move into a giftgiving scenario and how does
that help somebody cement thatin place?
Sara Hardwick (10:22):
Yeah Well, you may be surprised by this or
disappointed, and some peoplelistening may be disappointed,
but we kind of do not recommendcold gifting, while definitely
there's a place for it.
It can be fun sometimes and itworks sometimes.
There's a lot of time, energy,effort that is associated with
(10:43):
finding the right person to sendto, finding the right address,
finding the right person to sendto, finding the right address,
finding the right gift to send.
If it lands poorly, you're notgoing to get them.
All of those things actuallyslow down the efficiency of the
system that we are trying topropel forward.
So the way that we like to getyour quote unquote cold
introductions is look for areferral partner into that
(11:06):
person.
We call them a shoulder industrypartner.
So you understanding your idealclient is great, but who else
touches that ideal client?
Who else works with that idealclient?
It's not necessarily acompetitor, right?
Like, if you are a real estateagent and you want to work with
luxury homeowners, are theyworking out with personal
(11:28):
trainers who come over every day?
Are they a part of a luxurygolf club nearby?
Like?
Those are the relationshipsthat you want to build to get
introduced to your ideal client.
You don't have to go in cold.
Walt Bayliss (11:40):
Wow, that's so cool and it actually aligns with
what we talk about in theinfluencer model as well
Thinking about who already hasyour audience and building the
relationship with that personright at the top there, who can
then reach so many thousands ofother people who are right there
in your space.
Super cool, I love that.
So, when we're looking atgifting as a strategy, how do
you know when a relationship isready to go into that gifting
(12:04):
role?
Sara Hardwick (12:06):
Yeah, probably one of the main ways you know
it's ready to be a gifting typeof relationship is if you have
enough information about thatperson.
All of the gifts that we sendhave the recipient's family name
on it.
Typically that's inclusive ofthe person you're talking to and
(12:26):
their spouse's name.
So if you haven't gotten inconversation at all or maybe
can't even find it online theirspouse's name that's probably
not a relationship that you'reready to really take that next
step and invest in.
Also, their address soundssilly, but if you haven't
crossed that point yet that thisperson has felt comfortable
(12:46):
sharing their address or youhaven't felt comfortable asking
for it, that kind of halts oursystem altogether and probably
is a telltale sign for you thatit's not ready to gift.
But I will say while I'm sayinglike you know, don't cold gift
and maybe some people aren'tready for a gift, we absolutely
still encourage generosity.
(13:07):
So if you feel like you want togive someone something, please
do.
There's a lot of other waysalso to demonstrate value in
relationships that maybe aren'tas expensive or feel like as
serious as a gift does.
You can send a handwritten note, right, those small things also
(13:28):
matter so much to buildingrelationships and I think those
things also in the in theinfluencer space probably make
you stand out so much more,because everything's digital.
Like what if you just send ahandwritten thank you note
instead of a handwritten orinstead of a DM, thank you right
.
Walt Bayliss (13:45):
Makes such an amazing difference and, in fact,
the psychology of the personreceiving the gift is something
that I know that giftology hasspent a long time looking at.
Can you walk us through?
How does somebody who wants tosend that gift, even if it is
something small and thoughtful,how do they make sure that they
land?
You used that phraseologybefore.
How do they make sure they land, not just functionally but
(14:07):
emotionally?
Sara Hardwick (14:09):
Yeah, one of the key components of that is where
the gift lands, where you aresending the gift.
So we always try our best toget the home address, because we
want people to.
The psychology of this is likethere's also an element of what
state of mind they are in whenthey open it.
Where they are when they open,it could affect even though it
(14:31):
has nothing to do with you oryour gift that you sent.
It then could affect yourrelationship with that person.
So we want to always send it athome, not tied to work.
If they had a rough day and theycame out of a meeting and then
opened your gift and it was notgood, right, we want this to be
an experience and even more sothan that, we want this gift to
(14:52):
create a peak moment for them.
That's the psychology behind it.
We want that moment of openingthat gift to be something that
they can come back to andremember about your guys'
relationship, even when businessgets hard or maybe you guys
haven't talked in two years,right.
Sometimes you'll alwaysremember wow, I remember when
so-and-so sent me this, andthose peak moments are really
(15:15):
what gifting the giftology waycreates.
Walt Bayliss (15:18):
That's amazing, because thinking about getting
attention is, I guess, the pieceof marketing that so many
people struggle with, is gettingthat attention.
But keeping that memory, thatremembrance keeping top of mind,
wow, the long lasting effect ofthat goes so far beyond a Zoom
call, so far even beyond acoffee meeting.
(15:39):
It's something that stays withpeople for so much longer.
Yeah.
Sara Hardwick (15:43):
Yeah, I mean we're going down the whole
giftology checklist here,because another one of our key
principles is that the giftshould be a practical luxury, so
something that they use everyday, so that they stay top of
mind right, like if I'm in mykitchen every day cooking for my
family and I'm using the knifethat you sent me, I'm thinking
(16:04):
of you.
Even though your brand logo isan honor or anything, I'm
subconsciously thinking of youin some way every single day,
and that's why we reallyencourage gifts that land and
live in the center of the home,that are for the whole family,
that help people break breadtogether, and not something
that's going to go in the cornerof somebody's office or, worse,
(16:25):
in the trash.
Walt Bayliss (16:27):
Wow, amazing Thinking about that specifically
.
I know there's a great quotewhich says if you send a gift
for your brand on it, it'smarketing, but if you send a
gift with their name on it,that's gifting.
So thinking about that, evenjust voicing that out loud a
gift that lands in the center ofthe home, that the family
engages with and keeps thatrelationship moving, it's so
incredible Thinking about that.
(16:48):
Sarah, are there mistakes thatpeople make with gifting that
can actually sour thingssomewhat?
Sara Hardwick (16:55):
Yeah, I think the biggest one honestly falls in
the category of food, even today, food and consumables and
alcohol.
Because the gifting philosophyand why we don't do that is it
doesn't last, right, oncesomeone eats it, then they don't
think of you anymore.
Once they finish that bottle ofwine they don't think of you
(17:16):
anymore.
But the sour side of thingsreally there is so many people
are gluten-free, so many peopleright like maybe they have a
history of substance abuse orsomething you don't know about
them and are now entering intotheir home with something that
may actually come off a littleoffensive, or even not that, but
(17:36):
just like wow, you actuallydon't know me that well.
And that does not help in thatrelationship capital building at
all.
So we try to encourage peopleto stay away from food, stay
away from alcohol.
There's just too many risksinvolved, unless you surely know
that somebody mentioned theylove sharing an X bottle of wine
with their wife and you want togift that to them.
(17:59):
But on a larger scale, that'skind of the one rule of thumb to
stay away from.
Walt Bayliss (18:04):
Yeah, that's nice, that's awesome.
I think I'd love to dive in alittle bit in terms of the
relationship side of things.
In a digital world that we livein now, and especially forgive
me but somebody who is in theGen Z space, how do you find
that the relationship I guessattraction and momentum that's
(18:25):
created with giftology, how doyou find that fits within our
digital world today and for ouryounger audiences who are
fast-paced and moving quickly?
How does that all fit intophilosophy and strategy and the
feelings that you have in thatkind of world?
Sara Hardwick (18:42):
It's huge.
I've seen it firsthand.
Yes, you're right, I am in GenZ, so I understand the digital
world that we all live in areobsessed with.
Our work is on it.
Everything revolves aroundsocial media, online presence.
I get it.
(19:04):
You're looking for even atypical corporate job like
LinkedIn's the place.
I totally go the other way.
I think the way you are able inthis world now to build
relationships offline isabsolutely your strongest asset.
Yes, have an online presence.
Yes, have all these things, butit's going to be those little
(19:25):
moments where you do show upoffline that make you stand out.
I mentioned earlier thehandwritten notes piece.
Like everyone's sending emails,everyone's sending texts.
What if you showed up with ahandwritten note instead of an
email?
It's that little touch thatwill always make you stand out.
I used to walk aroundnetworking events where everyone
(19:45):
was handing out their businesscard and everyone was handing
out resumes and I used to pickthe five people that I wanted to
build a relationship with most,go into a little corner.
I had handwritten notes in mybag, write out those notes to
the people and go back and givethem that.
I'm sure I don't have anymetrics on this.
Walt Bayliss (20:02):
Wow, that's actually.
That's so, ninja, that strategy.
Sara Hardwick (20:05):
Right, thanks, but I mean that I'm sure got me
a lot more calls or interviewsor podcasts or whatever you are
looking for than me followingthem on Instagram, then me
connecting with them on LinkedIn.
So I think that now more thanever, actually our generation
Gen Z should really like hone inon their ability to build
(20:28):
relationships offline.
Have a little something in yourback pocket that you can always
whip out and it's kind of likeyour secret strength handwritten
notes.
I send video messages all thetime.
That was John's specialty.
Copied him on that one.
Instead of a phone call orsomething like that, I'm going
to send you a video text messageand show up that way.
(20:50):
So there's a lot of relationaltouch points that will stand out
in this online world for sure.
Walt Bayliss (20:58):
Unreal.
Speaking of touch points, I wasat a marketing conference just
a few days ago and they weretalking about the fact that the
touch points have increased sodramatically from in a creation
of trust.
So it used to be that youneeded four touch points to be
able to make a sale.
Now what people are talkingabout is there's 22 touch points
and that shows such, a, I guess, displacement of trust.
(21:22):
So there's a real trust deficitin marketing and in people
showing up in all your feeds etcetera, that that trust needs to
be enhanced by so much moreactivity in the space.
How do you see that giftingfits into that multiple touch
points and trust base?
I'm going to kind of preface itby thinking it accelerates the
(21:43):
heck out of it, but I just loveyour take on it.
Sara Hardwick (21:45):
Yeah, absolutely.
I do think that giftingprobably takes up a few emails,
calls, right.
That is a couple of touchpoints.
In itself.
You get extra brownie pointsfor the gifting and the gift
showing up.
But what I would also say inthe heart of what we do in
relationship building and usingyour network, especially when it
(22:06):
comes to this element of trust,is trust is transferred and if
that is something that you canutilize, the people in your
corner, the raving fans that youhave to get introduced again to
your ideal client, to someoneelse that you're looking to work
with, to a potential partner.
That's where I think trust likeis the most valuable is in the
(22:31):
people that are willing toadvocate for you, not just in
building trust, you know, to aclient or to a prospect, but
really building trust around youso that can be transferred and
hopefully then you're notrunning around crazy sending 20
emails, 20 touch points, all thethings when trying to close a
sale.
Walt Bayliss (22:49):
Yeah, definitely, and I love that that trust is
transferred and in terms of interms of gifting, I mean, it's
something so unique and sospecial to be able to send
something.
But also, you know, as arecipient, to be able to get
something so special really doeschange things and taking that
forward, you can see how thattrust really comes across with
that thoughtful notion and, ofcourse, as you said, not
(23:12):
randomized but strategic in theway that that's being done.
I'd love to ask you someinteresting gift scenarios that
you've seen.
What's the most unexpectedlymeaningful gift you've seen sent
personally?
Sara Hardwick (23:29):
Oh gosh.
Well, I just sent a.
One of my colleagues that Iwork with is a big New England
Patriots fan.
I've known this for a while andI was actually able, through a
few friends which I'm reallypeak meaningful moments for
people, not at scale or notbecause of any outcome in
relationships, but truly justbecause you care and I care
(24:03):
about this team member.
So so much.
This gift took a while to, youknow, get the jersey, get where
it needed to go and all thethings, but that's, that's a
story that now I will hold soclose.
Walt Bayliss (24:16):
One of our other- it's a relationship for life,
for sure.
Sara Hardwick (24:20):
Absolutely.
One of our other team members,just talking about John, again
shared in Austin, texas, when wewere launching this final book
Beyond Giftology, that one timeshe was on the phone with John
talking about how annoying itwas for her to juice for her
family and have to clean all thepieces after and the juicer.
(24:44):
She had had so many parts andshe's right, all those things
and that complaint then sparkedhim to send her a new, better,
updated all the things juicer.
So I think, when it comes tocreating those peak moments,
it's really about activelistening as much as like.
We've all heard this as areally great communication tool,
(25:04):
but it really is the first stepin what then can spark those
really amazing, amazing stories.
Walt Bayliss (25:13):
Amazing, and so those, those stories are are so
wow, Like the, the, the Jersey,I mean, that's just.
That's above and beyond.
As businesses are growing, it'sfascinating to me, Sarah, to
think that this personalizedapproach to gifting can can grow
with the business.
How does, how does a businessgift at scale without losing its
(25:35):
soul?
Sara Hardwick (25:38):
Without losing its soul.
I've never had the questionasked like that before, walt.
My quick answer and easy answerwould be they use us, they work
with us.
Walt Bayliss (25:49):
Nice, beautiful plug, that's great.
I mean, of course work with us.
Sara Hardwick (25:52):
That's a beautiful plug.
That's great.
I mean, of course, truly, whatour team does day in and day out
is they take large lists ofrelationships from huge
companies all the way down to asmall business owner who has 20
key relationships right withtheir addresses, and we build
out that gifting strategy thatgets sent out at scale in mass
(26:14):
so that nobody needs to go toUPS themselves and make sure
everything is engraved correctlyand all those things.
That truly is how we do it atscale.
Now, inside of our RichRelationship Society community,
these are all small businessowners who are creating systems
to do these things efficientlythemselves, to do these things
(26:35):
at scale themselves.
Going back to the handwrittennote, we tell people all the
time you can bulk, write yourhandwritten notes and leave a
little space at the bottom.
Make sure you always have thatpen that you wrote with right,
but like, leave a little spaceat the bottom.
That's where you add in thelast sentence.
That really makes it personaland meaningful.
But ultimately there's a lot ofthings that we can do to
(26:58):
systematize this relationshipbuilding process that we just
don't sit down and actuallythink about.
Walt Bayliss (27:06):
Yeah, absolutely, and I guess the question's a
little bit convoluted becauseyou're talking about the special
relationships and making surethat it's something unique and
personal.
And, of course, in theinfluencer space, we interviewed
one of our influencers justrecently who has nearly a
billion views on YouTube.
That's a heck of a lot ofhandwritten notes, but we're
(27:26):
talking about those key,strategic VIPs that can take
that relationship up to the nextlevel being able, as we
mentioned, getting hold of theperson who can introduce you to
that next level.
So that's one gift or one touchpoint that can then flow down
to that audience, which is very,very cool.
So, sarah, if I had to, if Ihad to ask you, so let me just
put a scenario in front of youand then we'll talk about that.
(27:48):
Beyond giftology, which I'd loveto do a little bit, I'm sure
that everybody listening isgoing I'm in, I want to create
those relationships, expand mynetwork, increase my touch,
increase my trust.
I'm in, I want to do it.
If a business owner right nowhad just $50 to spend on a VIP
client, how would you suggestthat they spend that in the best
(28:08):
possible and most personal way?
Sara Hardwick (28:11):
I would suggest a low cost demonstration of value
like a handwritten note, unlessyou know something about that
individual where you reallythink like this is I call them
relational golden nuggets right,like this is a relational
golden nugget.
They told me this one time overcoffee and I remembered it and
you can show up in that reallymeaningful way.
(28:32):
I'm always going to revert backto the handwritten note that I
don't.
I don't know what that lookslike in Australia, postage wise
and all the things, but 75 centsover here, ish.
Walt Bayliss (28:44):
So that's something that's about the same
here.
I mean, it's you still gotchange out of your 50s, so
you're pretty good.
Sara Hardwick (28:50):
Exactly, exactly, and I think there's.
There are so many ways thateven don't cost a dime for us to
still show up and add value toour relationships.
We can introduce them tosomebody as well, even if it's
not a professional introduction,not a professional referral.
You hear that.
You know they have a couple ofkids at home and they're wanting
(29:12):
to go on a date night withtheir spouse soon.
Recommend a babysitter, putthem in a three-way taxi with a
babysitter.
Those small things, I think,matter so much more.
And John always used to saythis it truly is not about the
gift, it's not at all.
The gift that you send doesn'tmatter, it does a little, but
(29:33):
it's truly about therelationship.
The gift is just a vehicle forbuilding that relationship, and
there's a lot of other vehiclesas well.
Walt Bayliss (29:41):
That's so cool.
How does somebody get startedwith giftology in the easiest
way?
You mentioned in the communitythere, and you guys have got
some incredible business ownersthere, the Rich Relationship
Society.
Is there a way that people canget started with giftology
easily?
They don't have to get into abillion dollar campaign with you
although I'm sure that that'spossible as you're going through
but how do they get startedwith you in the most
cost-effective and easiest wayto get started?
Sara Hardwick (30:02):
Yeah, start with our education.
Buy Beyond Giftology the book,buy Giftology John's first book
and just dive in and understandour philosophy If it speaks to
you.
There's plenty of opportunitiesto kind of step up that
thinking, step up those systemsinside of rich relationship
society and that's where we havea lot of service-based business
(30:24):
professionals, small businessowners, salespreneurs that are
looking to really level up andsystematize their relationship
formula.
If you do, you do, like yousaid, want to spend a billion
dollars on gifts.
We're also the people for that.
But I think people just gettingstarted and really having a
different mindset aroundrelationships, around gifting,
(30:47):
its power, can be done startingand reading our books.
Walt Bayliss (30:51):
Nice, I love it.
And so, moving from Giftology,which was John's book and,
honestly, a disruptive book, asyou said, he was really the
icebreaker for this philosophyand definitely leading the
charge.
So Giftology, opening that ideafor so many business owners, so
many entrepreneurs, so manysalespeople to lead the way with
(31:12):
gifting, and he will always beremembered for that, going into
that last book, Beyond Giftology.
Tell me about the team now inmemory of John and the Beyond
Giftology book that's nowavailable for sale, and how the
team have rallied behind gettingthat message out into the
marketplace.
Sara Hardwick (31:30):
Oh, I cannot say more good things about our team.
I am so grateful to workalongside and be supported by
all of the amazing people inthis organization.
It truly was a team effortgetting this to the finish line.
There's a lot of specificpeople who absolutely know how
(31:51):
much they mean to us and therelationships that supported us
along the way.
I think that's just a testamentto everything that we even
teach in the book your legacy,the people that you impact,
those are the people that showup for you in those hard moments
, and John impacted so manypeople, including his own team,
(32:14):
his staff, us here at Giftologythat during this hard period and
making sure this book got tothe finish line, I mean everyone
stepped up Long hours blood,sweat and tears, all the things
and I'm just grateful that I canbe here at least speaking that
same philosophy that I know Johnwould be doing so much better
(32:37):
than me, by the way to a largeraudience and just really
allowing people to understandthat there is a better way to do
business and that relationshipscan take you places.
Marketing can't.
Walt Bayliss (32:50):
Nice.
I love it.
And is there a goalpost for thedistribution of the book?
Are you guys?
Have you got a number up on thewall somewhere that you're
working towards?
How many copies are we lookingto get out there?
Sara Hardwick (32:59):
I do not have a number on the wall, thankfully.
Again so grateful for our team.
I definitely have now beenswept out of some of that book
focus and am on to RichRelationship Society and growing
our community and ourmembership because we are just
so excited about that.
So I'm sure there's some teammembers if you guys are
(33:20):
listening to this that have anumber that might definitely be
sitting on their whiteboardsomewhere in their home office.
But again, so grateful that wehave a team that's behind that
and it's not me, because I wouldnot be doing the best job.
Walt Bayliss (33:35):
I'm sure John would disagree.
But so, guys, as you'relistening, you can help the team
hit that number just bychecking out Beyond Giftology at
your favorite bookstore, sarah.
So you don't have the number onthe wall of the book
distribution, but you areworking, as you said, hard in
the Rich Relationship Societyand as your specific role with
the community relationshipstrategist there at Giftology.
(33:55):
What is your, I guess?
Let's talk company-wise.
What will we see on the horizonfor Giftology?
What will we see you guys doing?
Sara Hardwick (34:05):
Yeah, I think really broadening our scope of
education and this idea ofreturn on relationship.
That's something that Johnmentioned in his first book
Giftology but has really taken anew shape in beyond giftology
and also in our richrelationship society about how
can we truly help businessowners not just gift because
(34:27):
we've always been great at that,we will continue to be great at
that but truly get the most outof the relationships that they
have built.
We have so many people thathave such vast networks They've
been going to networking eventsforever, they've had multiple
careers but they just reallytruly haven't been able to
energize those networks intosomething meaningful for their
(34:47):
business and we feel verypassionately about.
We have the playbook for howyou can do that and we just want
to help as many servicebusiness professionals that we
can do just that.
It feels good also to be inbusiness with friends, to have
relationships as a strategy inyour business right.
(35:08):
To me personally, it's a lotless tiring.
I'm very energized talking topeople.
Well, I hope you can see thatit's a lot less tiring than
building all the funnels andmaking sure the ads are perfect
and all the things right.
So I think there's a lot ofpeople business leaders out
there that feel the same and wejust hope to come in, support
(35:28):
them and hopefully grow theirbusiness with them.
Walt Bayliss (35:32):
Fantastic.
Well, let's make sure thatthat's possible.
What's the best way for peopleto get involved with Giftology,
sarah, and follow along with youpersonally?
I'm seeing you're getting anice following there on your own
Instagram accounts and a fewthings there, so what's the best
way for people to keep in touchwith you and, as you're
developing the channels therewith Giftology, how are people
(35:53):
going to stay in touch there?
Sara Hardwick (35:54):
Yeah Well, since we kind of like you know, have
taken this stance of like again,social media and offline.
I really stay away fromInstagram, but LinkedIn is the
place that anybody can find me,sarah Hardwick, on LinkedIn.
I'm all about relationships, sowould love to connect with
anyone listening that'sinterested in learning more.
But we also can be found atgiftologygroupcom.
(36:16):
That will point you in theright direction of anywhere you
need to go, whether it's buyingthe book, joining Rich
Relationship Society or thinkingabout gifting with us.
Walt Bayliss (36:24):
Absolutely amazing .
So, so, so cool, you guys, andin today's digital world, that
special touch, that trusttransfer, as Sarah was talking
about, can be something that canbe built with the help of
giftology, with the strategythat goes behind that that's
going to ensure that yourcommunication, your networks and
your relationships arecontinuing to be developed.
(36:46):
We often talk about ROI and Ilove the return on relationships
as an idea and the joy as yousaid man, as a marketer myself,
the joy of creating arelationship rather than
creating a funnel man.
That goes without saying.
It's real hard to have abarbecue with a funnel.
So it's so nice to hear thismessage, sarah, and, of course,
taking John's legacy forward,that, beyond Giftology, starting
(37:09):
with giftology, opening thedoor to relationships through
the power of gifting, and thenon and beyond.
I hope, guys, as you'relistening to this from the
Influencer Empires program,you're understanding that
there's a lot of, I guess,capital that can be generated by
the philosophy of gifting.
That's why we wanted Sarah tocome on and tell us all about it
.
Sarah, thank you so much forthe opportunity to understand
(37:31):
the philosophy behind John'steaching.
Tell us all about it, sarah.
Thank you so much for theopportunity to understand the
philosophy behind John's,teaching the amazing power, and
I guess even just the storyabout the cleaners and
everything in the home andmaking sure that that's
something that is engaged intothe team can really show the
power of those relationshipsmoving forward.
Sarah, I appreciate you, Iappreciate your time, thank you
so much and, guys, make sureyou're getting into Giftology
and checking it all out.
Thank you, Sarah.
Sara Hardwick (37:52):
Thank you, Walt.
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