In this podcast episode, I welcome Cheryl Canzanella, an advocate for opioid financial awareness, to discuss the often-overlooked connection between addiction and financial planning.
This episode highlights the profound impact of the opioid epidemic on families and financial advisors, offering practical strategies to support clients dealing with the financial and emotional toll of addiction. Cheryl’s powerful personal story and her mission to educate financial professionals provide a fresh perspective on how advisors can better serve their clients.
Cheryl’s Journey: From Financial Advisor to Advocate
- A Career in Finance: Cheryl spent 25 years as a successful financial advisor, helping clients navigate life’s uncertainties.
- Personal Tragedy: After losing her husband to an opioid overdose at the age of 38, Cheryl experienced firsthand the devastating impact of addiction on families and finances.
- Finding Her Voice: She turned her personal loss into a mission, educating financial advisors about the economic and emotional challenges clients face due to addiction.
The Opioid Epidemic: A Financial Planning Crisis
- Staggering Statistics: Addiction costs the U.S. economy an estimated $1.5 trillion annually, with 200 lives lost daily to opioid overdoses.
- Red Flags for Advisors: Cheryl shares signs that financial advisors can look for, such as sudden asset liquidation, changes in beneficiaries, or uncharacteristic financial behavior.
- Emotional Barriers: Many clients feel shame or denial about addiction, making it essential for advisors to create a judgment-free, confidential environment.
Equipping Advisors to Help Clients
- Proactive Strategies: Cheryl emphasizes the importance of including addiction-related questions in client fact-finding processes and financial plans.
- Building Resources: Advisors can partner with counselors, rehabilitation centers, and other professionals to offer holistic support.
- Education as Key: She highlights the need for industry-wide education to address the stigma surrounding addiction and better support affected clients.
Key Takeaways and Future Outlook
- The Role of Financial Advisors: Advisors are often on the front lines, recognizing financial red flags before others, making their role critical in addressing addiction-related challenges.
- Breaking the Stigma: Open conversations, education, and empathy are essential to reducing the stigma and fostering hope for affected families.
- Cheryl’s Mission: Through her work, Cheryl aims to empower financial advisors with the knowledge and resources to make a difference in their clients’ lives.
About our guest: Cheryl Canzanella, an advocate for opioid financial awareness.
You can learn more about her work:
https://cherylcanzanella.com/
https://opioidfinancialawareness.com/
About Your Host: Paul G. McManus is an accomplished author and expert in helping financial professionals grow their businesses. With over eight years of experience working exclusively with financial professionals, Paul has helped his clients generate tens of millions of dollars in fees and commissions.
Claim your free audiobook copy at: www.theshortbookformula.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
If you're like most financial advisors, you pride
yourself on helping clientsprepare for life's uncertainties
market downturns, healthemergencies, career changes but
there's a crisis affectingmillions of American families
that many of us aren't equippedto discuss, let alone address
addiction.
Our guest today knows thisreality all too well.
(00:21):
Reality all too well.
Cheryl Canzanella not onlyspent 25 years as a successful
financial advisor, but she alsoexperienced the devastating
impact of the opioid epidemic inher own family, when she lost
her husband at age 38.
What started with a routineback injury and prescription
painkillers ended in tragedy andtaught her powerful lessons
(00:41):
about the intersection ofaddiction and financial planning
that every advisor needs tounderstand.
Today, she's breaking thesilence around this epidemic and
showing advisors how toidentify warning signs, have
difficult conversations andprotect clients who are facing
similar struggles.
With nearly half of Americansknowing someone affected by
(01:02):
addiction and an estimated $1.5trillion in annual economic
impact, this isn't just a healthcrisis.
It's a financial planningcrisis hiding in plain sight.
I'm excited for today'sinterview.
When we spoke in Phoenix, wherewe met a few months ago, you
(01:23):
shared with me something that,for me, was very unique.
I'd never heard about it before, or at least in this context.
Of course, I'm going to let youtell your story.
So today's conversation isgoing to be about how to think
differently about traditionalfinancial planning and you have
a very powerful personal storythat we're going to ask you to
share with us and then,ultimately, how that story and
(01:43):
just your experience can impactother financial advisors and the
work they do, helping familiesachieve their goals.
Tell us what led you to becomean advocate for families dealing
with addiction.
Speaker 2 (01:56):
So I've been in the financial industry for 25 years
and never did I think that Iwould become a widow at 38 years
old and especially being in thefinancial industry.
We are planning for the unknownevery day.
But it's not that I just becamea widow.
It was the way it happened, andgoing through addiction within
(02:17):
my family and seeing it happenright in front of me, it was
very shameful so I did not speaka word of it.
Here I am building my businessand making probably the most
money that I've ever made in mylife.
I was the breadwinner, I wasthe only income earner.
Over time, as I'm building mypractice, I just dove into that
(02:38):
and tried to remove myself fromwhat was happening at home.
My late husband was injuredfrom a back injury and what
started with prescriptionsturned out to spiral into an all
out addiction.
So dealing with that, Iwouldn't tell a soul, not even
my closest friends, and I'lltell you after 25 years in the
financial industry, workingspecifically with financial
(03:01):
advisors over the years.
Most of my friends are in thefinancial industry, very good
friends, and most of them had noidea it was very shameful.
When he did pass, it was anoverdose from fentanyl, from
opioids.
What I realized is that when Istarted to speak up about it,
that I wasn't alone.
There were a lot of people thatcould relate to what I was
(03:24):
going through and had clientswith what I was going through.
So I found a intense need tostart speaking up about it and
start sharing, because therewere so many in our industry
that have been infected withclients, yet they really, from a
financial advisor standpoint, alot of them may have just
(03:44):
stumbled upon it and didn'trealize how much it is actually
impacting their business.
I did find my voice because atthe time I had none, so I felt a
need to have a voice for thosethat don't have a voice and help
educate my peers in thefinancial industry.
Speaker 1 (03:59):
Myself.
I was completely ignorant to Ithink it's commonly called the
opioid epidemic, so I've beencompletely ignorant towards it
just because I don't have anyonethat I'm aware of in my
immediate surroundings that'sdealing with it.
But just in the past year ortwo I watched a couple
documentaries that really laidout some of the background of it
and it was just shocking andsad and heartbreaking For an
(04:21):
advisor that's maybe listeningto this and is wanting to
connect the dots in terms of howthis may or may not impact them
.
What are some background orstatistics you can share when it
comes to how widespread this is?
Speaker 2 (04:33):
Right now, 200 people are dying every day.
So 200 people are losing theirlife and by the time we're done
in 30 minutes, probably aboutsix more will lose their life.
Half of Americans right nowalmost half know someone.
Consider yourself lucky thatyou don't have someone in your
immediate circle, but half ofAmericans know someone close to
(04:53):
them or have a family memberthat has been impacted by
addiction in general and withthe opioid epidemic just
skyrocketing, those numbers arevery high due to what we call
opioid use disorder.
It's not just opioid addictionbut opioid use disorder.
So many half of Americans areimpacted by this.
There's a high probability froman advisor standpoint that you
(05:17):
have clients impacted by this aswell.
Investment News did a surveyabout seven years ago and that
survey I think they interviewedmaybe about a hundred or so
advisors and only a third ofthem thought that maybe they
knew someone, they had a clientthat might be impacted by the
opioid epidemic.
But that number is a lot higherthan what was actually reported
(05:41):
because many advisors justdon't realize how much their
clients, their families, areimpacted by this.
It is gone from an economicstandpoint.
We're at about a one, fivetrillion a year in economic
costs and what that tricklesdown to is, even though, paul,
you don't know someone in yourcircle from a trickle down
effect, it's impacting you.
(06:06):
Seventy five percent of businessowners are impacted.
Again, I feel that number is alot lower than what they really
truly understand.
So when it comes to that, evenif you're working with business
owners from an advisor, you areimpacted and bringing that
message from what's going on.
Watching those movies, themovies you mentioned, there's
more and more movies are comingout and they're actually doing a
very good job of portraying theprocess and the evolution of
(06:27):
where it started, back in thenineties to where we are today.
And right now the floodgatesare open.
Even though we made steps topull back, the floodgates are
open and that just means it'sjust going to get worse and
worse over time.
Speaker 1 (06:40):
So if we're not already open to exploring that,
we've got clients experiencingthis, it's going to come
unfortunately, and you had saidsomething just about your own
personal experience and you Ithink the word you said is shame
or you were embarrassed and youdidn't want to talk about it,
and of course, it's for myself.
I said I'm unaware of anyone inmy inner circle that is dealing
(07:03):
with this, just because I don'task about it.
And probably, to your point, ifsomeone does have a family
member or a loved one that isdealing with, it can be a sense
of shame or privacy or thosethings.
And so, from an advisor'sstandpoint, what are the things
that they should either belooking for or the questions
they should be asking to theirclients in order to see if
(07:24):
there's I don't want to sayopportunity, but an ability to
help their clients who areimpacted?
Speaker 2 (07:31):
by this Sure.
So there's a lot of movingparts here, because it's not
only the shame that keeps yourclients from sharing this, it's
also they could be in denial,and I've been in both.
So I was in complete denialthat we were even going through
a problem, so why would I admitto something like that?
And then you've got the parentwho might feel that they're a
failure for going through this,and that is absolutely not the
(07:53):
case, but that is the truereality.
And then you've got the thirdthing is why would I tell my
financial advisor it has nothingto do with them.
But once you do see some ofthose red flags, yeah, I'll
share some of those as well.
But you might want to have aconversation not necessarily
addressing it with them direct.
And there's a couple ofdifferent ways you could go
about this, whether or not it'smaking it part of your fact
(08:15):
finder, when you're sitting downfinding out information, just
say, hey, I just want you toknow here's why I'm going to ask
questions for this and here'swhere we can help you
financially.
And of course, you can alwaysbring in outside resources from
that point.
But they need to know why.
You might need some liquidity,you might need to access money
quickly we don't want you toincur penalties or taxes or
(08:38):
there might be a better way ordirection to access money, or
you might want to set up a willproper language in your trust.
There's a lot of differentthings.
On just that fact-finding part,you lay the groundwork like
we're going to ask questions anddon't worry, this is an
anonymity, we won't share this.
This is private.
This is a judgment-free zone.
Make them feel completelycomfortable.
If it's an existing client andyou see some red flags, you
(09:01):
might want to just considertelling them and meeting with
them more often than just anannual review.
You might want to just sharewith them that hey, have you
seen the recent episode on theopioid epidemic?
I've got clients going throughthis.
This is very real and it'shitting home in our
neighborhoods.
I just want you to know, ifanything ever comes up about
this, that I'm here as aresource to you, so approaching
(09:23):
it in a very hands-off way,letting them know that you're
there.
You might even provide videosor an article or signs or things
that you want to share whereyou don't have to address them
directly, but seeing those redflags, that's where it becomes a
little bit challenging.
Just like we have aresponsibility to help maybe
(09:46):
seniors that might be goingthrough issues and we have
certain steps to take to helpour seniors.
If we see red flags of someonebeing manipulated or going
through issues, that we shouldhandle this, the same way that
families could be manipulated bytheir own family members.
So if we see liquidation ofassets, if we see changes of
beneficiaries, all of those redflags those typical red flags
(10:09):
are ways to keep your eyes openand just consider.
But also think about readingbetween the lines.
What happens when a client juststops talking about their son
or daughter, or they breeze overthem?
They just don't want to talkabout it.
They don't want to say, oh,they're going to college and
getting married, they don'texist anymore.
That might be a red flag.
How many of your clients aregrandparents starting their life
(10:32):
in retirement now, have a newgrandbaby they have to take care
of, or a grandchild?
Talk about putting a dent inthe whole retirement plan with
expenses.
So that may not necessarilymean addiction in the family,
but it could be a sign and thoseare big signs.
Reading between the lines andtrying to see is debt rising,
shooting's been shooting throughthe roof or they now having to
(10:54):
unexpectedly move?
There's a lot of different redflags that could come about.
It's just a matter of are youopen to seeing them and then
taking action, like asking thosequestions?
Speaker 1 (11:04):
One of the things I remember you sharing or telling
me when we met in Phoenix wasand I'm going to butcher this,
so correct me if I'm wrong butessentially, when you have a
loved one that's going throughthis, you would spend any
amounts of money to help them.
Right, you would go into debtand I'm just extrapolating here
but you would liquidate your401k, you would do all these
different things to help thembecause this is a loved one and
you want to do anything to helpthem.
(11:26):
The question I have is whatimpact can a financial advisor
have other than being, maybe, asounding board?
But if, at the end of the day,someone is going to make
decisions that may not be intheir own financial interest,
but they're going to do itbecause they have a loved one
that they want to help, nomatter what impact can a
financial advisor make?
Speaker 2 (11:42):
Yeah, it's a good point If you're not going to
stop someone from trying to savethe life of their loved one.
I personally met someone wholost her son around the same
time that my late husband passedaway.
I don't know her financialsituation.
She told me she spent about$100,000 trying to help save him
.
I don't know if that's a lot ofmoney for her.
That would be a lot of moneyfor me personally.
(12:05):
I can tell you that.
I can also tell you that shewould spend that and more if her
son was alive here today.
So you're not going to stopthat.
However, you could educate them,like I said before, direct them
on how to access the right typeof funds.
Let me tell you, you're notthinking clearly.
You're making very cloudy andirrational financial decisions.
(12:27):
So maybe you can direct them onhow to access money.
So maybe you can direct them onhow to access money.
Maybe you can help direct themand educate them on how long
it's going to take to rebuildthose assets and how little time
they have to rebuild and how toreplenish them and how long
that's going to take.
They might think twice.
It's not really up to you todecide whether or not they spend
(12:48):
their money on saving a lovedone, but you should have some
input, maybe help them to makemore sound financial decisions.
There's no way to tell.
Some people might just be aone-time thing, some people
might be an ongoing thing, andjust the ability to give them
advice would mean so much at atime when their life is in chaos
(13:10):
.
It's not just spending money onthings like rehab and the drugs
itself or the theft involved.
It's things like just spendingmore on DoorDash.
It's spending more on thingsthat you would not typically do.
If your items in your home arebeing pawned into a pawn shop
and having to get irreplaceableheirlooms out of the pawn shop,
(13:32):
it's expenses that you're justnot thinking of that are going
to happen.
And it's going to a pawn shopand having to get irreplaceable
heirlooms out of the pawn shop,it's expenses that you're just
not thinking of, that are goingto happen and it's going to
start happening pretty quickly.
Speaker 1 (13:38):
You are a financial advisor, so did you have your
own financial advisor?
At the time, I had plenty offinancial advisors.
You were surrounded by them.
I was surrounded by them.
So what questions did they ask?
Or did you wish that they askedto have better supported you
while you were going throughthis?
Speaker 2 (13:55):
I needed a tap on the shoulder, I needed to be
approached personally.
This is me speaking.
I wish I had someone tap me onthe shoulder to say hey, here's
how things work.
I remember going through I'mnot in healthcare or property
and casualty, but I remember notbeing able to quite understand
if my insurance was gonna payfor the cost of rehabilitation.
(14:16):
We pulled 15 grand out, fivegrand from my father-in-law.
We pulled money together, wepaid in cash for him to attend
and I don't think I ever lookedback to see about what.
Did insurance cover it?
When I could have easily pickedup the phone and asked somebody,
what questions could they haveasked me again, I think if they
just would have addressed itwith me and said hey, have you
(14:37):
thought about this?
Have you thought about that?
There were times when he was onwhat are called medically
assisted treatment.
So as you're going throughtreatment, you are getting what
a doctor is prescribing to helpcurb the addiction.
You become addicted to that andI remember many times pulling
money out voluntarily when wedidn't even have the money so he
(14:58):
could get more of that becausehe didn't have enough.
I was personally making reallypoor decisions.
I was essentially helping himbuy drugs on the street.
Do you think any rationalperson when you would think that
why would they do that?
Well, you're when you're in themidst of it and you just want
your loved one to feel betterand to be better, you're going
(15:18):
to do crazy things like that.
Yeah, I wish I would have hadsomeone say look, at least
address it with me.
And say look, maybe we shouldtalk about your spending.
Every penny I was making wasflying right out the door.
Speaker 1 (15:31):
That was the shocking thing for me when I watched
those documentaries recently andI think specifically they were
about Purdue Pharma and, atleast from my understanding,
ushered in, at least in part,this whole opioid epidemic, and
what really stood out to me wasthat these were just regular,
everyday, hardworking AmericansBefore this.
You think, okay, someone has adrug addiction.
(15:51):
I don't want to say it's theirfault, but they're choosing this
.
They're getting into alcoholism.
They're making bad decisions.
They're choosing this.
They're getting into likealcoholism.
They're making bad decisions,they're bringing this upon
themselves to some degree.
But what this movie reallyeducated me on and reinforced in
my mind was that the peoplethat are suffering for this by
and large and I think you saidthis was your husband.
He got injured at work, he gotsomething going to work,
everyday middle-class person,and they have some sort of
(16:12):
accident or injury or something.
They go to their doctor, whothey trust, who they should go
to, and at the time their doctorwas recommending these
different things because that'swhat they were being told to
recommend.
And you go from just trying totake care of your health to
suddenly being addicted to drugsand then it cascades, and so it
was just really shocking toreally see it from that point of
view, and so I share that.
(16:33):
Just because I can understandwhether it's the person going
through it or the loved one.
I can imagine you find yourselfin these situations that you're
like how did I get here?
Speaker 2 (16:41):
I often say that I was addicted to his addiction.
I was addicted to trying to fixhis addiction.
I was addicted to controllingthe situation.
I was addicted to not lettinganyone know.
I was addicted to trying to fixit.
You can't do any of that.
So I was going through my owncrazy world and going and
(17:02):
thinking irrationally, becausewhen you're addicted, you're not
thinking.
I don't care what the addictionis.
It doesn't necessarily have tobe about drugs.
It could be monetary, it couldbe health, it could be a lot of
different things that people areaddicted to.
You're not thinking clearly andI was just as bad as he was, in
a sense that I'm not makingvery smart decisions.
Speaker 1 (17:26):
Let's shift gears a little bit and expand upon this
again.
For a financial advisorlistening to this.
So today, how do you helpfinancial advisors?
How do you educate them?
How do you help them supporttheir clients when it comes to
these topics?
Speaker 2 (17:38):
One it's being able to just educate them on my story
is just one of many thousandsof people, but educate them on
how it is connected to theirbusiness, how it is connected to
their clients, helping them toidentify those red flags that
there's so many to how do theyhave the conversation and what
financial strategies that theyshould consider when a family is
(18:01):
going through this.
So I help them with providingeducational material resources
available to them and to just bethat person, to share a real
life story and to share how thisall connects and is truly
connected with our industry,because oftentimes financial
(18:21):
advisors may not realize thatthey're on the front lines
before anyone else sees, becauseit's when the money runs out
that when the real problemsstart.
So if your family is goingthrough, especially the high net
worth individuals, they justhave enough resources and money
to be able to sweep this underthe rug, to fix the problem, to
throw money at it.
(18:42):
But if there's legal issues andthey can just make it go away
because they have the funding orthey have enough money to spend
on getting help and they don'thave to worry about going to
work and keeping the food andkeeping lights on and food on
the table.
So if there are individualsthat need help and they've run
out of money, that's when theissues start.
So it's not just about helpingclients that are already going
(19:05):
through.
It's just identifyingbeforehand, so being able to
help with those resources and tohelp make that connection, that
it's not just, like you said,people out living in the streets
and abandoned buildings andbegging for money on the side of
the road that, oh wait, thisdoes happen to the wealthy, this
happens to the rich and famous.
So if it happens to the richand famous that have all the
access to an availability to thetop places to get them help and
(19:29):
they have the money to be ableto spend on it, and then you've
got the people that aredestitute.
What about all the people inbetween these two stereotypes?
And that's where the connectioncomes in and that's my goal to
educate them that they areimpacted and you do have access
to resources because you are onthe front lines.
Speaker 1 (19:47):
I know that today's election day.
I'm sure this will air afterthat, but I know the vice
presidential candidate, jd Vance.
His mom was addicted to opioids, I believe, and she's about 10
years sober.
I share that.
Just to say that there's peoplein all walks of life right, and
is there hope?
I don't know enough about this,but what do you see?
Is there hope in terms of usovercoming this as a country, or
(20:08):
where are we in this?
Are we still getting worse?
Where do you see us?
I?
Speaker 2 (20:12):
would hope that we've got nowhere to go but up and
things to get better.
Unfortunately, I feel like thefloodgates are open, but when it
comes to hope, I feel like thisis a battle that can be won.
That takes education, thattakes everyone to be motivated
to understand things from theoutside, beyond the traditional
financial planning and beyondthe traditional thinking in
(20:35):
general.
It's not necessarily abouttrying to just save the assets.
It's about trying to save lives.
I think the more that we caneducate people, the more we can
help diminish some of the stigmathat is out there and the
misunderstandings and thechallenges.
So if we want to defeat theepidemic, we need more
conversations, less judgment,more education, less stigma, and
(21:00):
that would be a way to lead usto that hope by being able to
face some of those challengeswith knowledge.
Speaker 1 (21:08):
Is there any question that I haven't asked you that,
at this point, you think wouldbe important for people to know
about, or that you would like toshare?
Speaker 2 (21:16):
I do want to share and go back to where you said
the pharmaceutical companieswhen they started this.
I really think when peoplethink of opioids there's a
misunderstanding in general onreally what they are and opioids
although it's a term used tocollectively refer to opiate and
opioids and opium but an opioidis actually derived from the
(21:39):
opium poppy seed and thatincludes the pharmaceuticals and
that's what you see the moviesand all of the pharmaceutical
companies pushing in the earlynineties.
The heroin is also derived fromthe opium poppy seed, is also
considered an opiate and it isjust as highly addictive as the
prescription pain pills but itis also potentially deadly.
(22:00):
So, interchangeably, heroin andprescription pain pills are
along the same thing.
And what I don't think peoplerealize is how easy it is to go
from prescription pain pills toillegal heroin, so legally
prescribed to illegal heroin outon the streets.
And then when we have the risein deaths for opioids in general
(22:24):
, that is coming from fentanyl,which everyone has heard.
There's a couple of differentother types of opioids out there
, but they're fully synthetic.
There's no opium, it's not dry,it's all chemicals.
The spike and increase inoverdose deaths is due to
fentanyl.
What people don't realize isthe number one reason for people
dying from opioids.
The number one reason wasprescription pain pills.
(22:46):
Then fentanyl came.
So this is why it's soimportant to understand the
connection that you have withyour clients, because clients,
like you said, are beingprescribed this and then, if the
doctor pulls back, the nexteasy place to get it is out on
the streets and that's heroin.
I would say that would besomething I'd like to share and
make sure people are aware, andI think the movies do try to
(23:09):
share that progression.
But there's a lot of goodmovies out there on that.
Speaker 1 (23:13):
Yeah, I've watched a couple just recently about the
Purdue Pharma and I think onehad Matthew Broderick in it.
I forget the title of it atthis point, but that's what was
infuriating, at least fromwatching the movie, and I'm just
going to assume it was mostlyaccurate.
I'm sure there's some licensetaken here and there, but you go
from at least in the movie.
You go from the doctoressentially pushing it and say,
hey, this is a I don't want tosay a miracle cure, but this is
(23:36):
a miracle drug and it's going tohelp you with your pain.
And they're prescribing it.
And of course thepharmaceutical companies saying,
oh, give them more for purposeof sales.
And of course they get hooked.
And then the doctor comes inand says, okay, I can't
prescribe anymore, I have topull back.
And now you've just createdbuild off of what you were
saying and just from my limitedunderstanding.
(23:56):
So now you're like what do I do?
My doctor essentially got meaddicted and now he's not
prescribing, and now I need this.
And so what do you do?
And that's where you end up onthe street buying some illegal
version of it.
But it's not like that's whereyou started, right, you weren't
trying to go out and party,because in my mind that's like
I'll use the word junkie youthink they're just trying to
party and they're not takingresponsibility for life.
(24:17):
But this is completelydifferent.
This is your everyday persongoes to work, gets injured or
something like that.
Goes to their doctor, looks forhelp, gets recommended.
This, gets addicted because ofthat recommendation, gets the
rug pulled out from underneaththem and now they're stuck and
that is just infuriating.
Speaker 2 (24:34):
Yeah, and that's one of the reasons why it's so
important for companies to alsoin the financial industry, to be
aware of this and to educatetheir advisors, because they're
actually putting themselves in alegal and liability, because
are you really doing what's inthe best?
Do you really know your client?
If you're not asking thequestions right, addiction is
uncomfortable to talk about it.
(24:55):
There's special needs andthere's special considerations
that have to be taken care of.
If you don't truly know whatyour clients are going through,
that's a breakdown in yourability to really provide what's
in the best interest of yourclients.
There's a reason why 60 to 70%of like intergenerational wealth
transfers fail.
There's a breakdown of trustand communication within the
(25:16):
family.
Addiction can be a huge impactto that statistic and that's why
it's so important to talk aboutit.
And, from a company perspective, it's so important for
companies to at least educatetheir advisors or provide
education so they are at leastaware of some of these and they
could maybe make a shift or beable to ask the right questions
(25:39):
or just simply give third-partyresources to local people.
We build strategic allianceswith CPAs, estate planning
attorneys, long-term carefacilities.
Do we have connections withlocal rehabilitation or
counselors or therapists or debtcounselors, so there's so many
(25:59):
things that we could justprovide as a resource just refer
them when they don't know whereto turn.
Being able to educate youradvisors could go so far.
Speaker 1 (26:09):
So for someone listening to the podcast and
wants to reach out to you orlearn more about the work you do
or participate in any of youreducational programs, what's the
best way for them to reach outor to learn more about you?
Speaker 2 (26:20):
You can simply put in my name, CherylKanzanellacom,
or my actual website is OpioidFinancial Awareness.
Speaker 1 (26:27):
And we'll link to that in the show notes.
I've enjoyed the conversation.
This has been informative forme and, I hope so, for our
audience as well.
Thank you for taking the timeto be with us today.
Thanks, paul.
If you're like most financial advisors, you pride
yourself on helping clientsprepare for life's uncertainties
market downturns, healthemergencies, career changes but
there's a crisis affectingmillions of American families
that many of us aren't equippedto discuss, let alone address
addiction.
Our guest today knows thisreality all too well.
(00:21):
Reality all too well.
Cheryl Canzanella not onlyspent 25 years as a successful
financial advisor, but she alsoexperienced the devastating
impact of the opioid epidemic inher own family, when she lost
her husband at age 38.
What started with a routineback injury and prescription
painkillers ended in tragedy andtaught her powerful lessons
(00:41):
about the intersection ofaddiction and financial planning
that every advisor needs tounderstand.
Today, she's breaking thesilence around this epidemic and
showing advisors how toidentify warning signs, have
difficult conversations andprotect clients who are facing
similar struggles.
With nearly half of Americansknowing someone affected by
(01:02):
addiction and an estimated $1.5trillion in annual economic
impact, this isn't just a healthcrisis.
It's a financial planningcrisis hiding in plain sight.
I'm excited for today'sinterview.
When we spoke in Phoenix, wherewe met a few months ago, you
(01:23):
shared with me something that,for me, was very unique.
I'd never heard about it before, or at least in this context.
Of course, I'm going to let youtell your story.
So today's conversation isgoing to be about how to think
differently about traditionalfinancial planning and you have
a very powerful personal storythat we're going to ask you to
share with us and then,ultimately, how that story and
(01:43):
just your experience can impactother financial advisors and the
work they do, helping familiesachieve their goals.
Tell us what led you to becomean advocate for families dealing
with addiction.
Speaker 2 (01:56):
So I've been in the financial industry for 25 years
and never did I think that Iwould become a widow at 38 years
old and especially being in thefinancial industry.
We are planning for the unknownevery day.
But it's not that I just becamea widow.
It was the way it happened, andgoing through addiction within
(02:17):
my family and seeing it happenright in front of me, it was
very shameful so I did not speaka word of it.
Here I am building my businessand making probably the most
money that I've ever made in mylife.
I was the breadwinner, I wasthe only income earner.
Over time, as I'm building mypractice, I just dove into that
(02:38):
and tried to remove myself fromwhat was happening at home.
My late husband was injuredfrom a back injury and what
started with prescriptionsturned out to spiral into an all
out addiction.
So dealing with that, Iwouldn't tell a soul, not even
my closest friends, and I'lltell you after 25 years in the
financial industry, workingspecifically with financial
(03:01):
advisors over the years.
Most of my friends are in thefinancial industry, very good
friends, and most of them had noidea it was very shameful.
When he did pass, it was anoverdose from fentanyl, from
opioids.
What I realized is that when Istarted to speak up about it,
that I wasn't alone.
There were a lot of people thatcould relate to what I was
(03:24):
going through and had clientswith what I was going through.
So I found a intense need tostart speaking up about it and
start sharing, because therewere so many in our industry
that have been infected withclients, yet they really, from a
financial advisor standpoint, alot of them may have just
(03:44):
stumbled upon it and didn'trealize how much it is actually
impacting their business.
I did find my voice because atthe time I had none, so I felt a
need to have a voice for thosethat don't have a voice and help
educate my peers in thefinancial industry.
Speaker 1 (03:59):
Myself.
I was completely ignorant to Ithink it's commonly called the
opioid epidemic, so I've beencompletely ignorant towards it
just because I don't have anyonethat I'm aware of in my
immediate surroundings that'sdealing with it.
But just in the past year ortwo I watched a couple
documentaries that really laidout some of the background of it
and it was just shocking andsad and heartbreaking For an
(04:21):
advisor that's maybe listeningto this and is wanting to
connect the dots in terms of howthis may or may not impact them
.
What are some background orstatistics you can share when it
comes to how widespread this is?
Speaker 2 (04:33):
Right now, 200 people are dying every day.
So 200 people are losing theirlife and by the time we're done
in 30 minutes, probably aboutsix more will lose their life.
Half of Americans right nowalmost half know someone.
Consider yourself lucky thatyou don't have someone in your
immediate circle, but half ofAmericans know someone close to
(04:53):
them or have a family memberthat has been impacted by
addiction in general and withthe opioid epidemic just
skyrocketing, those numbers arevery high due to what we call
opioid use disorder.
It's not just opioid addictionbut opioid use disorder.
So many half of Americans areimpacted by this.
There's a high probability froman advisor standpoint that you
(05:17):
have clients impacted by this aswell.
Investment News did a surveyabout seven years ago and that
survey I think they interviewedmaybe about a hundred or so
advisors and only a third ofthem thought that maybe they
knew someone, they had a clientthat might be impacted by the
opioid epidemic.
But that number is a lot higherthan what was actually reported
(05:41):
because many advisors justdon't realize how much their
clients, their families, areimpacted by this.
It is gone from an economicstandpoint.
We're at about a one, fivetrillion a year in economic
costs and what that tricklesdown to is, even though, paul,
you don't know someone in yourcircle from a trickle down
effect, it's impacting you.
(06:06):
Seventy five percent of businessowners are impacted.
Again, I feel that number is alot lower than what they really
truly understand.
So when it comes to that, evenif you're working with business
owners from an advisor, you areimpacted and bringing that
message from what's going on.
Watching those movies, themovies you mentioned, there's
more and more movies are comingout and they're actually doing a
very good job of portraying theprocess and the evolution of
(06:27):
where it started, back in thenineties to where we are today.
And right now the floodgatesare open.
Even though we made steps topull back, the floodgates are
open and that just means it'sjust going to get worse and
worse over time.
Speaker 1 (06:40):
So if we're not already open to exploring that,
we've got clients experiencingthis, it's going to come
unfortunately, and you had saidsomething just about your own
personal experience and you Ithink the word you said is shame
or you were embarrassed and youdidn't want to talk about it,
and of course, it's for myself.
I said I'm unaware of anyone inmy inner circle that is dealing
(07:03):
with this, just because I don'task about it.
And probably, to your point, ifsomeone does have a family
member or a loved one that isdealing with, it can be a sense
of shame or privacy or thosethings.
And so, from an advisor'sstandpoint, what are the things
that they should either belooking for or the questions
they should be asking to theirclients in order to see if
(07:24):
there's I don't want to sayopportunity, but an ability to
help their clients who areimpacted?
Speaker 2 (07:31):
by this Sure.
So there's a lot of movingparts here, because it's not
only the shame that keeps yourclients from sharing this, it's
also they could be in denial,and I've been in both.
So I was in complete denialthat we were even going through
a problem, so why would I admitto something like that?
And then you've got the parentwho might feel that they're a
failure for going through this,and that is absolutely not the
(07:53):
case, but that is the truereality.
And then you've got the thirdthing is why would I tell my
financial advisor it has nothingto do with them.
But once you do see some ofthose red flags, yeah, I'll
share some of those as well.
But you might want to have aconversation not necessarily
addressing it with them direct.
And there's a couple ofdifferent ways you could go
about this, whether or not it'smaking it part of your fact
(08:15):
finder, when you're sitting downfinding out information, just
say, hey, I just want you toknow here's why I'm going to ask
questions for this and here'swhere we can help you
financially.
And of course, you can alwaysbring in outside resources from
that point.
But they need to know why.
You might need some liquidity,you might need to access money
quickly we don't want you toincur penalties or taxes or
(08:38):
there might be a better way ordirection to access money, or
you might want to set up a willproper language in your trust.
There's a lot of differentthings.
On just that fact-finding part,you lay the groundwork like
we're going to ask questions anddon't worry, this is an
anonymity, we won't share this.
This is private.
This is a judgment-free zone.
Make them feel completelycomfortable.
If it's an existing client andyou see some red flags, you
(09:01):
might want to just considertelling them and meeting with
them more often than just anannual review.
You might want to just sharewith them that hey, have you
seen the recent episode on theopioid epidemic?
I've got clients going throughthis.
This is very real and it'shitting home in our
neighborhoods.
I just want you to know, ifanything ever comes up about
this, that I'm here as aresource to you, so approaching
(09:23):
it in a very hands-off way,letting them know that you're
there.
You might even provide videosor an article or signs or things
that you want to share whereyou don't have to address them
directly, but seeing those redflags, that's where it becomes a
little bit challenging.
Just like we have aresponsibility to help maybe
(09:46):
seniors that might be goingthrough issues and we have
certain steps to take to helpour seniors.
If we see red flags of someonebeing manipulated or going
through issues, that we shouldhandle this, the same way that
families could be manipulated bytheir own family members.
So if we see liquidation ofassets, if we see changes of
beneficiaries, all of those redflags those typical red flags
(10:09):
are ways to keep your eyes openand just consider.
But also think about readingbetween the lines.
What happens when a client juststops talking about their son
or daughter, or they breeze overthem?
They just don't want to talkabout it.
They don't want to say, oh,they're going to college and
getting married, they don'texist anymore.
That might be a red flag.
How many of your clients aregrandparents starting their life
(10:32):
in retirement now, have a newgrandbaby they have to take care
of, or a grandchild?
Talk about putting a dent inthe whole retirement plan with
expenses.
So that may not necessarilymean addiction in the family,
but it could be a sign and thoseare big signs.
Reading between the lines andtrying to see is debt rising,
shooting's been shooting throughthe roof or they now having to
(10:54):
unexpectedly move?
There's a lot of different redflags that could come about.
It's just a matter of are youopen to seeing them and then
taking action, like asking thosequestions?
Speaker 1 (11:04):
One of the things I remember you sharing or telling
me when we met in Phoenix wasand I'm going to butcher this,
so correct me if I'm wrong butessentially, when you have a
loved one that's going throughthis, you would spend any
amounts of money to help them.
Right, you would go into debtand I'm just extrapolating here
but you would liquidate your401k, you would do all these
different things to help thembecause this is a loved one and
you want to do anything to helpthem.
(11:26):
The question I have is whatimpact can a financial advisor
have other than being, maybe, asounding board?
But if, at the end of the day,someone is going to make
decisions that may not be intheir own financial interest,
but they're going to do itbecause they have a loved one
that they want to help, nomatter what impact can a
financial advisor make?
Speaker 2 (11:42):
Yeah, it's a good point If you're not going to
stop someone from trying to savethe life of their loved one.
I personally met someone wholost her son around the same
time that my late husband passedaway.
I don't know her financialsituation.
She told me she spent about$100,000 trying to help save him
.
I don't know if that's a lot ofmoney for her.
That would be a lot of moneyfor me personally.
(12:05):
I can tell you that.
I can also tell you that shewould spend that and more if her
son was alive here today.
So you're not going to stopthat.
However, you could educate them,like I said before, direct them
on how to access the right typeof funds.
Let me tell you, you're notthinking clearly.
You're making very cloudy andirrational financial decisions.
(12:27):
So maybe you can direct them onhow to access money.
So maybe you can direct them onhow to access money.
Maybe you can help direct themand educate them on how long
it's going to take to rebuildthose assets and how little time
they have to rebuild and how toreplenish them and how long
that's going to take.
They might think twice.
It's not really up to you todecide whether or not they spend
(12:48):
their money on saving a lovedone, but you should have some
input, maybe help them to makemore sound financial decisions.
There's no way to tell.
Some people might just be aone-time thing, some people
might be an ongoing thing, andjust the ability to give them
advice would mean so much at atime when their life is in chaos
(13:10):
.
It's not just spending money onthings like rehab and the drugs
itself or the theft involved.
It's things like just spendingmore on DoorDash.
It's spending more on thingsthat you would not typically do.
If your items in your home arebeing pawned into a pawn shop
and having to get irreplaceableheirlooms out of the pawn shop,
(13:32):
it's expenses that you're justnot thinking of that are going
to happen.
And it's going to a pawn shopand having to get irreplaceable
heirlooms out of the pawn shop,it's expenses that you're just
not thinking of, that are goingto happen and it's going to
start happening pretty quickly.
Speaker 1 (13:38):
You are a financial advisor, so did you have your
own financial advisor?
At the time, I had plenty offinancial advisors.
You were surrounded by them.
I was surrounded by them.
So what questions did they ask?
Or did you wish that they askedto have better supported you
while you were going throughthis?
Speaker 2 (13:55):
I needed a tap on the shoulder, I needed to be
approached personally.
This is me speaking.
I wish I had someone tap me onthe shoulder to say hey, here's
how things work.
I remember going through I'mnot in healthcare or property
and casualty, but I remember notbeing able to quite understand
if my insurance was gonna payfor the cost of rehabilitation.
(14:16):
We pulled 15 grand out, fivegrand from my father-in-law.
We pulled money together, wepaid in cash for him to attend
and I don't think I ever lookedback to see about what.
Did insurance cover it?
When I could have easily pickedup the phone and asked somebody,
what questions could they haveasked me again, I think if they
just would have addressed itwith me and said hey, have you
(14:37):
thought about this?
Have you thought about that?
There were times when he was onwhat are called medically
assisted treatment.
So as you're going throughtreatment, you are getting what
a doctor is prescribing to helpcurb the addiction.
You become addicted to that andI remember many times pulling
money out voluntarily when wedidn't even have the money so he
(14:58):
could get more of that becausehe didn't have enough.
I was personally making reallypoor decisions.
I was essentially helping himbuy drugs on the street.
Do you think any rationalperson when you would think that
why would they do that?
Well, you're when you're in themidst of it and you just want
your loved one to feel betterand to be better, you're going
(15:18):
to do crazy things like that.
Yeah, I wish I would have hadsomeone say look, at least
address it with me.
And say look, maybe we shouldtalk about your spending.
Every penny I was making wasflying right out the door.
Speaker 1 (15:31):
That was the shocking thing for me when I watched
those documentaries recently andI think specifically they were
about Purdue Pharma and, atleast from my understanding,
ushered in, at least in part,this whole opioid epidemic, and
what really stood out to me wasthat these were just regular,
everyday, hardworking AmericansBefore this.
You think, okay, someone has adrug addiction.
(15:51):
I don't want to say it's theirfault, but they're choosing this
.
They're getting into alcoholism.
They're making bad decisions.
They're choosing this.
They're getting into likealcoholism.
They're making bad decisions,they're bringing this upon
themselves to some degree.
But what this movie reallyeducated me on and reinforced in
my mind was that the peoplethat are suffering for this by
and large and I think you saidthis was your husband.
He got injured at work, he gotsomething going to work,
everyday middle-class person,and they have some sort of
(16:12):
accident or injury or something.
They go to their doctor, whothey trust, who they should go
to, and at the time their doctorwas recommending these
different things because that'swhat they were being told to
recommend.
And you go from just trying totake care of your health to
suddenly being addicted to drugsand then it cascades, and so it
was just really shocking toreally see it from that point of
view, and so I share that.
(16:33):
Just because I can understandwhether it's the person going
through it or the loved one.
I can imagine you find yourselfin these situations that you're
like how did I get here?
Speaker 2 (16:41):
I often say that I was addicted to his addiction.
I was addicted to trying to fixhis addiction.
I was addicted to controllingthe situation.
I was addicted to not lettinganyone know.
I was addicted to trying to fixit.
You can't do any of that.
So I was going through my owncrazy world and going and
(17:02):
thinking irrationally, becausewhen you're addicted, you're not
thinking.
I don't care what the addictionis.
It doesn't necessarily have tobe about drugs.
It could be monetary, it couldbe health, it could be a lot of
different things that people areaddicted to.
You're not thinking clearly andI was just as bad as he was, in
a sense that I'm not makingvery smart decisions.
Speaker 1 (17:26):
Let's shift gears a little bit and expand upon this
again.
For a financial advisorlistening to this.
So today, how do you helpfinancial advisors?
How do you educate them?
How do you help them supporttheir clients when it comes to
these topics?
Speaker 2 (17:38):
One it's being able to just educate them on my story
is just one of many thousandsof people, but educate them on
how it is connected to theirbusiness, how it is connected to
their clients, helping them toidentify those red flags that
there's so many to how do theyhave the conversation and what
financial strategies that theyshould consider when a family is
(18:01):
going through this.
So I help them with providingeducational material resources
available to them and to just bethat person, to share a real
life story and to share how thisall connects and is truly
connected with our industry,because oftentimes financial
(18:21):
advisors may not realize thatthey're on the front lines
before anyone else sees, becauseit's when the money runs out
that when the real problemsstart.
So if your family is goingthrough, especially the high net
worth individuals, they justhave enough resources and money
to be able to sweep this underthe rug, to fix the problem, to
throw money at it.
(18:42):
But if there's legal issues andthey can just make it go away
because they have the funding orthey have enough money to spend
on getting help and they don'thave to worry about going to
work and keeping the food andkeeping lights on and food on
the table.
So if there are individualsthat need help and they've run
out of money, that's when theissues start.
So it's not just about helpingclients that are already going
(19:05):
through.
It's just identifyingbeforehand, so being able to
help with those resources and tohelp make that connection, that
it's not just, like you said,people out living in the streets
and abandoned buildings andbegging for money on the side of
the road that, oh wait, thisdoes happen to the wealthy, this
happens to the rich and famous.
So if it happens to the richand famous that have all the
access to an availability to thetop places to get them help and
(19:29):
they have the money to be ableto spend on it, and then you've
got the people that aredestitute.
What about all the people inbetween these two stereotypes?
And that's where the connectioncomes in and that's my goal to
educate them that they areimpacted and you do have access
to resources because you are onthe front lines.
Speaker 1 (19:47):
I know that today's election day.
I'm sure this will air afterthat, but I know the vice
presidential candidate, jd Vance.
His mom was addicted to opioids, I believe, and she's about 10
years sober.
I share that.
Just to say that there's peoplein all walks of life right, and
is there hope?
I don't know enough about this,but what do you see?
Is there hope in terms of usovercoming this as a country, or
(20:08):
where are we in this?
Are we still getting worse?
Where do you see us?
I?
Speaker 2 (20:12):
would hope that we've got nowhere to go but up and
things to get better.
Unfortunately, I feel like thefloodgates are open, but when it
comes to hope, I feel like thisis a battle that can be won.
That takes education, thattakes everyone to be motivated
to understand things from theoutside, beyond the traditional
financial planning and beyondthe traditional thinking in
(20:35):
general.
It's not necessarily abouttrying to just save the assets.
It's about trying to save lives.
I think the more that we caneducate people, the more we can
help diminish some of the stigmathat is out there and the
misunderstandings and thechallenges.
So if we want to defeat theepidemic, we need more
conversations, less judgment,more education, less stigma, and
(21:00):
that would be a way to lead usto that hope by being able to
face some of those challengeswith knowledge.
Speaker 1 (21:08):
Is there any question that I haven't asked you that,
at this point, you think wouldbe important for people to know
about, or that you would like toshare?
Speaker 2 (21:16):
I do want to share and go back to where you said
the pharmaceutical companieswhen they started this.
I really think when peoplethink of opioids there's a
misunderstanding in general onreally what they are and opioids
although it's a term used tocollectively refer to opiate and
opioids and opium but an opioidis actually derived from the
(21:39):
opium poppy seed and thatincludes the pharmaceuticals and
that's what you see the moviesand all of the pharmaceutical
companies pushing in the earlynineties.
The heroin is also derived fromthe opium poppy seed, is also
considered an opiate and it isjust as highly addictive as the
prescription pain pills but itis also potentially deadly.
(22:00):
So, interchangeably, heroin andprescription pain pills are
along the same thing.
And what I don't think peoplerealize is how easy it is to go
from prescription pain pills toillegal heroin, so legally
prescribed to illegal heroin outon the streets.
And then when we have the risein deaths for opioids in general
(22:24):
, that is coming from fentanyl,which everyone has heard.
There's a couple of differentother types of opioids out there
, but they're fully synthetic.
There's no opium, it's not dry,it's all chemicals.
The spike and increase inoverdose deaths is due to
fentanyl.
What people don't realize isthe number one reason for people
dying from opioids.
The number one reason wasprescription pain pills.
(22:46):
Then fentanyl came.
So this is why it's soimportant to understand the
connection that you have withyour clients, because clients,
like you said, are beingprescribed this and then, if the
doctor pulls back, the nexteasy place to get it is out on
the streets and that's heroin.
I would say that would besomething I'd like to share and
make sure people are aware, andI think the movies do try to
(23:09):
share that progression.
But there's a lot of goodmovies out there on that.
Speaker 1 (23:13):
Yeah, I've watched a couple just recently about the
Purdue Pharma and I think onehad Matthew Broderick in it.
I forget the title of it atthis point, but that's what was
infuriating, at least fromwatching the movie, and I'm just
going to assume it was mostlyaccurate.
I'm sure there's some licensetaken here and there, but you go
from at least in the movie.
You go from the doctoressentially pushing it and say,
hey, this is a I don't want tosay a miracle cure, but this is
(23:36):
a miracle drug and it's going tohelp you with your pain.
And they're prescribing it.
And of course thepharmaceutical companies saying,
oh, give them more for purposeof sales.
And of course they get hooked.
And then the doctor comes inand says, okay, I can't
prescribe anymore, I have topull back.
And now you've just createdbuild off of what you were
saying and just from my limitedunderstanding.
(23:56):
So now you're like what do I do?
My doctor essentially got meaddicted and now he's not
prescribing, and now I need this.
And so what do you do?
And that's where you end up onthe street buying some illegal
version of it.
But it's not like that's whereyou started, right, you weren't
trying to go out and party,because in my mind that's like
I'll use the word junkie youthink they're just trying to
party and they're not takingresponsibility for life.
(24:17):
But this is completelydifferent.
This is your everyday persongoes to work, gets injured or
something like that.
Goes to their doctor, looks forhelp, gets recommended.
This, gets addicted because ofthat recommendation, gets the
rug pulled out from underneaththem and now they're stuck and
that is just infuriating.
Speaker 2 (24:34):
Yeah, and that's one of the reasons why it's so
important for companies to alsoin the financial industry, to be
aware of this and to educatetheir advisors, because they're
actually putting themselves in alegal and liability, because
are you really doing what's inthe best?
Do you really know your client?
If you're not asking thequestions right, addiction is
uncomfortable to talk about it.
(24:55):
There's special needs andthere's special considerations
that have to be taken care of.
If you don't truly know whatyour clients are going through,
that's a breakdown in yourability to really provide what's
in the best interest of yourclients.
There's a reason why 60 to 70%of like intergenerational wealth
transfers fail.
There's a breakdown of trustand communication within the
(25:16):
family.
Addiction can be a huge impactto that statistic and that's why
it's so important to talk aboutit.
And, from a company perspective, it's so important for
companies to at least educatetheir advisors or provide
education so they are at leastaware of some of these and they
could maybe make a shift or beable to ask the right questions
(25:39):
or just simply give third-partyresources to local people.
We build strategic allianceswith CPAs, estate planning
attorneys, long-term carefacilities.
Do we have connections withlocal rehabilitation or
counselors or therapists or debtcounselors, so there's so many
(25:59):
things that we could justprovide as a resource just refer
them when they don't know whereto turn.
Being able to educate youradvisors could go so far.
Speaker 1 (26:09):
So for someone listening to the podcast and
wants to reach out to you orlearn more about the work you do
or participate in any of youreducational programs, what's the
best way for them to reach outor to learn more about you?
Speaker 2 (26:20):
You can simply put in my name, CherylKanzanellacom,
or my actual website is OpioidFinancial Awareness.
Speaker 1 (26:27):
And we'll link to that in the show notes.
I've enjoyed the conversation.
This has been informative forme and, I hope so, for our
audience as well.
Thank you for taking the timeto be with us today.
Thanks, paul.
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