May 6, 2025 • 47 mins
This episode features an in-depth conversation with Morgan Nichols and Kelly Bays, financial advisors at Ameriprise and co-authors of the new book "Intentional Legacy." The discussion explores how legacy isn't something you plan for at the end of life, but something you live every day through your financial decisions, family interactions, and the values you demonstrate and pass on to future generations.
Guest Information
- Morgan Nichols: Financial advisor at Ameriprise for 10 years, comes from a family of financial advisors
- Kelly Bays: Financial advisor at Ameriprise for 19 years, joined the profession after discovering her passion for teaching others about finances
Key Topics Discussed
1. What is Intentional Legacy?
- Legacy isn't just what you leave behind when you're gone
- It's how you teach children about money, balance enjoying today while preparing for tomorrow
- It's the values that guide your everyday financial decisions
2. Aligning Financial Decisions with Personal Values
- Both advisors help clients identify their top five personal values
- They customize financial plans based on these values rather than using a "cookie-cutter" approach
- Example: Creating flexibility for a client who values adventure over traditional retirement
3. Value Exercises with Clients
- Use card exercises to help clients identify and prioritize their personal values
- Help couples discover where their values align and differ
- Create financial plans that honor these values for both today and tomorrow
4. Teaching Children About Money
- Morgan's experience earning an allowance with chore charts
- Kelly's experience with the three-jar approach (quick cash, long-term savings, "taxes" for family vacations)
- Importance of being intentional about teaching financial lessons, regardless of method
5. Breaking the Three-Generation Wealth Cycle
- First generation builds wealth
- Second generation enjoys the wealth
- Third generation squanders the wealth
- How to break this cycle through communication and value-sharing
6. The Sandwich Generation
- Strategies for those supporting both aging parents and children simultaneously
- Importance of self-care and avoiding burnout
- Delegating the "mental load" across siblings or family members
- Creating clear plans with parents about care preferences before crisis moments
7. Wealth as an Amplifier
- Money doesn't change who you are fundamentally—it amplifies existing traits
- Reframing money as a tool rather than a goal
- How greater wealth can allow naturally generous people to increase their impact
8. Emotional Aspects of Retirement
- Planning beyond the numbers to address the emotional transition
- The importance of "retiring to something" rather than just away from work
- Replacing the purpose, social connections, and sense of accomplishment that work provides
Closing Thoughts
The authors emphasize that creating an intentional legacy isn't just for end-of-life planning—it's about making mindful choices throughout your life journey. Their book aims to help readers make financial decisions that align with their core values, creating meaningful impact for themselves and future generations.
Where to Find the Book
The book "Intentional Legacy" is available at IntentionalLegacyBook.com
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
What if your financial decisions today could
shape not just your future butcreate ripples of impact for
generations to come?
What if the way you talk aboutmoney with your children or
handle financial challengescould become their blueprint for
success?
These aren't just end-of-lifeconsiderations.
They're questions that matterright now, whether you're in
(00:23):
your 30s building a career, your40s raising a family, or your
60s planning your next chapter.
Yet traditional financialplanning rarely addresses these
deeper dimensions.
Meet Morgan Nichols and KellyBays, authors of the
groundbreaking book IntentionalLegacy.
What sets their new book apartis their transformative
(00:45):
perspective.
That legacy isn't something youplan for at the end of life.
It's something you live rightnow.
Your legacy isn't just what youleave behind when you're gone,
they argue.
It's in how you teach yourchildren about money over the
dinner table.
It's in how you balanceenjoying today while preparing
for tomorrow.
It's in the values that guideyour financial decisions every
(01:07):
single day.
In this conversation, you'lldiscover why understanding your
top five personal values is thefoundation of all financial
decisions.
How to break the dreadedthree-generation cycle where
wealth is built, enjoyed thensquandered.
Three-generation cycle wherewealth is built, enjoyed then
(01:28):
squandered.
Practical strategies for thesandwich generation juggling
children and aging parents,without burning out the
emotional blind spots ofretirement that can derail even
the best funded plans.
How to ensure your wealthamplifies your true self rather
than changing who you are.
If you've ever felt thattraditional financial advice
misses the human element, thevalues, emotions and
(01:49):
relationships that give meaningto wealth, then this
conversation is for you.
Welcome, morgan and Kelly.
So glad to have you guys heretoday and I'm so excited for you
.
You literally just got yourbook in the mail today, correct?
Speaker 2 (02:14):
We sure did.
It's right here.
Speaker 1 (02:18):
Now I know this has been a bit of a journey.
I think it started when we metin May of last year, and here we
are.
This is where, in my mind, thefun begins and where all that
hard work that I know you guyshave put into it it starts to
bear fruit.
So I'm excited to have youtoday on the podcast to do this
author interview with us, and somy first question for you guys
(02:39):
is just tell us a little bitabout your backgrounds and how
you each found your way intofinancial advising and, morgan,
if you'd like to start,Absolutely so.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
I think I was probably destined to be a
financial advisor.
I am the first born of twofinancial advisors, so Apple did
not fall far from the tree.
I went off to college I thoughtI was going to do international
business.
I thought I was headed into theAir Force.
I had a few changes that camealong the way and when I sat
(03:10):
back and said, well, what do Iwant to do, I realized I really
like personal finance and myfriends didn't enjoy it quite as
much as I did.
So I started my career inwholesaling and that was great.
I got so much learning, so muchof experience.
But I realized I wasn't gettingto work with individuals and
that was really important to meto make a direct impact in
(03:33):
people, part of the servantleadership that I learned in
school.
I can't believe it.
It's been 10 years.
I joined Ameriprise and I'venever looked back.
I love being able to work withindividuals and with families.
Speaker 1 (03:45):
Yeah, and you said that you're the first child, so
are your parents financialadvisors.
Speaker 2 (03:51):
My parents are, so I was born with principles out of
the gate.
I used to do my homework at theconference table and there was
a time I earned a dollar an hourhelping to do little odd and
end tasks at the office.
I think they first startedgiving me a few things to do.
I was about eight years old,and then we just built from
there.
Speaker 1 (04:10):
That's amazing.
Very cool, Kelly.
How about you?
Speaker 3 (04:13):
I had a little bit of a different background.
I grew up in a verymiddle-class family.
My mom was a teacher and my dadwas in sales and I very much
thought I was going to go intoteaching.
But I took a sales job incollege and I loved the freedom,
the flexibility, having controlof my income, my time and I,
(04:35):
similar to Morgan, likedfinancial budgeting and
financial topics and things farmore than many of my friends.
So as I was teaching mysorority sisters, I decided I
think I want to do this buthonestly, my only experience
with it was what I saw in themovies, you know, wolf of Wall
(04:56):
Street and stockbrokers, and Isaid I don't know if I want to
do that.
Speaker 1 (04:59):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (05:00):
So I went and knocked on doors.
I went and knocked on fivedifferent companies' doors and
said I think I want to do whatyou do, but I'm not exactly sure
.
Yeah, and I had a great mentorthat took me in, let me intern
for him and graduated andstarted with Ameriprise 19 years
ago and it has just beenamazing seeing the impact with
(05:21):
clients.
And I still get to be thatteacher.
Yeah, I still tease my clientsthat I'm giving them homework,
but I get to teach adults and Iget to have that flexibility and
I love it.
Speaker 1 (05:32):
So with that in mind, what inspired you to write your
book Intentional Legacytogether?
So you guys are co-authors ofthis book.
So what inspired you guys?
Two-part question what inspiredyou guys to A write the book
together as co-authors and sojust kind of share what your
relationship is together?
Speaker 2 (05:53):
Yes, it's funny that the name of the book is
Intentional Legacy, because I'mfinding this theme of just
intentionality across the board,as I think through a lot of
this book coming to fruition andjust how both Kelly and I lead.
Kelly joined LifeBranch andwhen that happened, we really
wanted to make sure we werecollaborating our thoughts how
(06:14):
we serve our clients.
Both of us really want to makesure we're always bringing that
best experience to our clientsand that they're getting that
team approach.
So this book became really thepassion project behind us,
saying, well, kelly, how do youmake an impact in this area?
And Morgan, how do you make animpact?
(06:34):
And how do we bring our mindstogether to really bring the
idea about the benefit of thecomprehensive advice that we
provide and our passion aroundmaking a generational impact.
And we found that we werereally united in our approach
there.
But, working together, we werereally able to learn a lot about
one another.
Speaker 1 (06:54):
That's awesome, Kelly .
Would you add anything?
Speaker 3 (06:56):
I'm not sure I could say it much better than Morgan
just did.
We have different strengths andwriting the book together was
fun.
Where she excelled was an areathat I was just really fun
(07:24):
writing together and talkingthrough the intentionality of
our legacy that we want to buildwith LifeBranch as well.
Speaker 1 (07:34):
Yeah, very cool.
Okay, who is the ideal readerfor your book Intentional Legacy
and, more importantly, whatinsights or takeaways can they
expect to get out of it?
Speaker 2 (07:46):
So I think that this is a book for everyone and it
should be shared with everyone'sloved ones.
So I know that's a really broadaudience.
But there, if I also thinkabout it, if you're searching
for deeper meaning on connectingyour finances to your values,
if you're just searching for, Isay, more in general, right,
you've been putting good thingsin place, but you want to know,
(08:09):
is there anything you've missed?
What else can we do to makethings more comprehensive?
I also find there's a lot ofpeople that are trying to
balance us planning for thefuture with, like, what do you
do today and how do we make animpact today?
That's really what we focusedon.
This book I also think about.
This book is great for otheradvisors who really want to make
(08:30):
sure they're bringing more totheir clients and they're
collaborating with like-mindedadvisors.
That's something Kelly and Iwant to continue to do is
collaborate with advisors thatshare our passion, our mindset
and our values and want to trulymake an impact for their
clients.
Speaker 3 (08:46):
The other person I would say is it can be a little
intimidating to meet with afinancial advisor, especially,
as I mentioned, that was notsomething that I grew up with,
and so this is a really greatway to kind of get to know us a
little bit before making thatcall.
What is the experience like,and and what?
Who are these people?
And I think that's also just areally powerful way to see our
(09:09):
approach.
Speaker 1 (09:09):
Yeah, absolutely, and that's what I love about having
a book and even doing podcastslike this is that I think it's a
scary decision.
It's going into a relationshipwith someone who can have a that
you're, that you need to trust,that you want to trust and can
have a huge impact on yourretirement, which can span
decades, and so it's such animportant decision.
And how do you make thatdecision effectively?
And so just having givingpeople opportunity to really
(09:30):
understand your values and whoyou are as people, I think
fantastic.
One of the central themes ofyour book is the concept of
aligning financial decisionswith personal values, and so
help us understand that.
Can you walk us through how youhelp your clients discover
their true financial values?
Speaker 2 (09:49):
Yes.
So you know it's interestingtoo.
You're talking about the amountof trust that clients are
putting in their advisor whenthey work with them.
So we're getting at a wholenother deeper level when we
start working with our clientsto understand their personal
values, the financial values.
So we really have to start withpersonal values Really.
What are those top things thatdrive you as a person?
(10:11):
And we used filtering that down, really getting to clients top
five values to then understandhow do we make financial
decisions in alignment withthose values?
I like to think about it.
I have a client and this isn'ta cookie cutter approach right,
really customize our plans toour clients.
It's not a one size fits all.
So when I work with a clientwho came to me and I learned one
(10:36):
of his top five values wasflexibility and he also really
loves adventure.
So this idea of working incorporate America, grinding hard
until the age of 65 andretiring, that really did not
provide the flexibility for theadventure, the travels, the
exploring that he wants to do,along with the flexibility of
life.
(10:56):
Now, his job right now doesrequire a commitment, but we
really needed to look at if thattruly flexibility is important
to a lot of people but it's notnecessarily one of their top
five values.
So if it's a top value, how dowe create a plan that works,
that we still are making surethat financial goals and plans
(11:17):
and longevity of assets andeverything is still there, going
to work, but in a way that thatperson's going to feel like
their life is being lived in theway that that's giving them a
sense of purpose?
If we just give clients an ideaof here's the cookie cutter
approach of what you need to do,if it doesn't resonate, they're
not going to follow it.
(11:38):
So we really want to make surewe can create a plan that meets
both the client's financialneeds but also their personal
needs and helps them feel likethey have a life well lived.
Speaker 1 (11:48):
I think that's such an important point because for
someone, maybe someone likemyself, until recently I had not
been working actively with afinancial advisor and I'm just
thinking in terms of manage mymoney, do this, do that, but I'm
not thinking, or I wasn'tthinking, necessarily in terms
of how they can help me and mywife communicate and actually
(12:08):
prioritize and actuallydetermine what are those
personal values that actuallydrive us the most.
And so I can imagine thebenefit that you bring your
clients when you actually helpthem prioritize that and
actually, probably in some casesit's actually realized huh,
what are our values?
And maybe what are our valuesas a couple?
Because, honey, I've neverasked you that.
Speaker 2 (12:28):
Well and that's what we find is, a lot of couples
haven't had that conversationand I would say probably you and
your spouse have some similarvalues, but there's probably one
or two that are different andthat has been that's why we
argue all the time.
Well, when I did it with myspouse, I realized like I
started understanding him at awhole new level and I can
(12:49):
appreciate things when Iunderstand it's somebody's top
value.
So it's a great exercise to dofor finances, but it's also
great to do just to understandyourself better and understand
your loved ones better.
Speaker 1 (13:01):
And Kelly, I'm going to ask you to expand upon that,
and just part of that questionthat comes to my mind is is how
do you help them determine that?
I'm just curious about yourprocess, if you're able to share
anything about that as well.
Speaker 3 (13:11):
Absolutely.
Sometimes it's just aconversation of digging a little
bit deeper, but we actually dohave a values exercise that they
can.
There's a deck of cards thatthey kind of break out which
ones yes, no, yes, no and thenthey scale it down.
Taking it from 20 to 5 isreally hard.
It depends on the client.
(13:32):
Some of them really want to diginto that cards and others just
kind of want to have thatconversation and big picture and
kind of scale it back fromthere.
The thing is this is a journey.
Retirement, financial planning,all of it is a journey.
We work with clients all theway from in their 20s, all the
way up till past 90.
And retirement's not a day.
(13:52):
Yes, every client we plan forretirement, but we work with
people well past theirretirement day because it's the
journey that's through it andyou're gonna have that legacy
and create that legacy at everystage of your life.
So if we can help you liveintentionally in your finances
both today and in future, itdoesn't.
(14:14):
You don't have that.
Oh, why did I save for thefuture, why I should have lived
for today kind of mentality?
Because you get to live itintentionally and therefore you
get to live it right, the entirejourney.
Speaker 1 (14:25):
I think that's a really interesting point,
because I think there's broadlytwo camps of people, right.
There's like, hey, let's justlive for today and who knows
what's going to happen tomorrow.
And then there's the ones thatare planning for the future.
And how do you reallyespecially if it's a couple
right?
It's like, how do you balancethose two things?
Speaker 3 (14:40):
And you got to have both.
You know you can't put everypenny away and save for the what
ifs, because what if it doesn'thappen?
We all know of somebody in thatsituation.
At the same time, what if itdoes?
We have to plan for both, andso if we can help you live
intentionally in your values,making decisions that align with
(15:03):
that, there's really no regrets.
Speaker 1 (15:05):
So I'm hearing two words stand out, so legacy and
values.
And oftentimes when I hear theword legacy, I'm thinking, okay,
when I'm on my deathbed and Ithink, okay, what did I leave
behind?
And if I have any moneyremaining, where's it going to
go and what are they going to dowith that?
And at the same time as I hearthe word values, I see it really
much more as something that youshould be intentional and
(15:27):
thinking about throughout thatwhole journey and so just in
whatever you want to just helpme wrap my head around both of
those.
So, like a 30 year old, 40 yearold, 50 year old, help me
understand that the term legacybetter in that context.
So when they're thinking aboutlegacy, it's not put off until
the end of their life, but it'stoday.
Speaker 3 (15:43):
Yeah, absolutely, and I was even guilty of that early
in my year in my career.
We would push.
I would push off the legacyconversation with clients until
they were late in retirement.
We knew that they were going toat this point.
We know there's going to bemoney.
We have to do something with it.
Now let's have this legacyconversation and I would
intentionally push it off, andwhat I learned is that it
(16:04):
shouldn't wait until the end,because it's all about how you
live your life today.
You are going to leave a legacywhen you leave this world,
whether you leave it at 20 or 99.
You have made an impact, youhave made a footprint in this
world, so why not make itintentional?
Speaker 2 (16:23):
Piggybacking on that.
I like to think of a story.
It's like when you talk aboutlegacy and values.
I think that legacy that youleave behind it's what are
people going to remember aboutyou and what impact did you
leave on the world.
And I'll just use a simpleexample With my family, when I
was quite young, I earned anallowance.
Right, let's say I was 10 yearsold and I earned $10.
Speaker 1 (16:47):
Given or earned.
Speaker 2 (16:49):
Earned.
Speaker 3 (16:50):
Oh I absolutely had to earn it.
Speaker 2 (16:52):
Yeah.
No there was chore charts andeverything, and I could even
earn more if I worked hard.
Speaker 1 (16:58):
So again that right there like how do you?
Speaker 2 (17:01):
it's probably why I'm an entrepreneur is because I
was always given a roadmap intohere's option A and option B.
But when we earned ourallowance early on, I remember
being in church and learningthat, okay, you need to give 10%
back into making the world abetter place.
I may have been giving $1, butthat was a mindset and a value
(17:25):
that was being instilled in meby my family early on and I had
the values instilled in me and,like you need to save half of
your income, or that's what Iwas being told as a kid, or how
do you?
bucket things, and I think whatI learned from people that have
multiple children is differentchildren adapt to some of what's
being taught more than others,that every child is different.
(17:48):
But you start building lessons,whether it's on saving or it's
anything else.
When generations look back andyou pay it forward and you look
at, well, what are you doing andwho influenced that?
And oh, that came from GrandpaJoe or whoever it ends up being.
That is part of the legacy.
It's not just the money at theend, it's all the lessons along
(18:09):
the way.
Speaker 1 (18:10):
I think that's a great example.
I think that's a terrificexample and I think that's
something that a parentlistening to this definitely
probably is thinking.
Okay, what I'm imagining most,most parents aren't as
intentional.
There we go, there's the wordright.
Aren't as intentional, and so Ithink what your parents did
with you is is fantastic.
Speaker 2 (18:27):
You aren't as intentional, and so I think what
your parents did with you isfantastic.
You can start somewhere.
Speaker 1 (18:31):
It doesn't have to be big, right, it can be little
lessons that build upon eachother, and that's why I clarify
was it earned or was it given?
And you're like it was earned,okay, fantastic, and you could
actually earn more.
And they taught you thesereally cool lessons, which
obviously have had a profoundimpact on you, very cool.
Speaker 3 (18:50):
Well, and I will tell you that in many cases both
work and that's what we've seen.
My allowance and I kind of talkabout this in the book but I
got an allowance and it wasgiven we got our age every week
and we had to split it intothree jars One was for quick
cash, one was for long-termsavings and one was for taxes
and the taxes had to go towardsour family vacations and
long-term, went into our savingsaccount for college.
(19:12):
And then the quick cash is wecould spend.
And yes, there's validity toboth sides.
But I say that because I thinkso many times, especially in
this society that there's somuch information, we get a
little paralyzed as parents oflike, oh my gosh, we're going to
do it wrong, oh my gosh.
(19:32):
Honestly, I think it's justabout teaching our kids and
having conversations about moneyand getting them used to
understanding that when they getmoney, it's not all theirs
right away, we're not taking allof it, but teaching them to
make decisions with their moneyand understanding that,
unfortunately, like, there'salways a decision to be made
Right.
So getting that used to it isalso a really valuable lesson.
Speaker 1 (19:54):
How do you guys help your clients with this?
Because I can see getting intouch with your own values maybe
you and your spouse getting intouch with your values,
especially as you're planningyour own, say, retirement or
savings goals but do you haveany methods or do you even coach
or advise your clients on howto do these things that you're
describing when it comes totheir children or maybe their
(20:16):
grandchildren?
Speaker 2 (20:17):
I think that's when we're doing comprehensive
planning with our clients andwe're starting to pull
information together and we'redigging in on their values.
It's having that conversationthat goes a layer deeper to
figure out what is mostimportant to them.
For example, I'll use familycomes up a lot as a top value.
Well, for some people thatmeans I want to be physically
(20:40):
present with my family and forother people that might mean I
just don't want my family toever want for anything.
I want to be able to meet thefinancial needs.
So, having authenticconversations with our clients,
finding out their values butalso how do they define those
values and then building a gameplan and seeing sometimes
(21:01):
there's values but there's notnecessarily enough money to
support what they want to do.
So it's reframing andprioritizing and that's where we
really get into the deeperplanning overall to help make
sure that our clients get thatpeace of mind and our kind of
our tagline is financialconfidence for life.
How do we help build that?
(21:21):
Through the decisions, andthere's sometimes a lot of
decisions to be made.
Speaker 1 (21:26):
Yeah, no, I can imagine.
Speaker 3 (21:27):
I also would say we encourage multi-generational
meetings.
I love when the kids are income to my meetings.
We have a little specialcoloring area for them so that
they're there and they'regetting to be.
They get to see that.
That's part of it.
From a spouse standpoint, Itease my clients that this may
be the only two times a yearthat you guys talk finances.
(21:50):
So let's do it, Even if nothingseems like it's changing.
Let's meet and go through it,because that you ask one spouse.
Do you guys think you talkabout your finances enough?
One may be like, oh my gosh, wetalk nonstop, and the other is
like we never talk about ourfinances.
So it's all about theperspective, but it's really
(22:10):
just being that third partyhelping that conversation.
I am a big believer thatcommunication, that open
communication, sharing thesuccesses, sharing the screw ups
with your kids, with yourparents, being that safe
environment.
I think you should talk to yourfamily about money, because and
you don't have to be an expert,you don't have to know it all
(22:31):
Maybe the answer is you need aKelly, you need a Morgan, and
that's okay.
That's why we do what we do,because it allows for that.
It's okay to make mistakes, butit's also okay to ask for help
and work with somebody.
Speaker 1 (22:45):
I find it from personal experience I it just
what you said to be so true andamazing how, just in my own case
I'm 49 now and I've beenmarried for over 20 years and my
wife and I have never reallysat down and got into the
disgust and planned and got onthe same page long-term about
values, until we had a chance towork with an advisor who said
(23:05):
you guys need to sit downtogether and we're going to have
this conversation together so Ican see how much value you
bring to your clients throughthat.
Absolutely I love it.
So in the book you introducedthe concept of simultaneous
multi-generational success andI'm going to say that again
simultaneous multi-generalsuccess.
What does that mean?
Speaker 2 (23:26):
I think some people wonder if that's even possible.
Right, there's this idea goingback time over time that if you
have three generations, you'vegot the first generation that's
worked so hard to earn the money, you've got the second
generation that enjoys thefruits of the first generation's
labor and then the thirdgeneration that squanders that
(24:02):
money away.
So it's, what's the point?
Is the money the nextgeneration or the generation
after?
Think?
There's a reality thatgenerations are sometimes going
to see topics differently.
I see it within my own family.
It could be whether on likeviewpoints on college or
viewpoints on whatever else itmay be.
There's different perspectives,perspectives.
(24:26):
We're not necessarily going tochange the perspectives of each
generation, but if we can get tothe point of sharing the values
and helping younger generationsagain kind of going back to
what we've already been talkingabout learn lessons early on,
hopefully they're betterprepared to then be really good
stewards of whatever they mayinherit down the road.
I actually have a client rightnow.
It's really fun.
He has a handful ofgrandchildren and he wants them
(24:50):
to understand the importance oflong term investing and caring
about finances.
So each of them have individualaccounts.
I think there's a handful ofcompany stocks, names.
We all know, whether it'stechnology or Fortune 500
companies that are often in thenews, and each of the
grandchildren own, let's say,one share of a few of these
(25:12):
different companies.
okay, well, all of a sudden theclient's telling me hey, my
grandson was just talking to meand then telling me about the
news he saw on so-and-so companyand what it's doing is it's
when the next generation feelsinvolved and we can get them
involved, whether it's watchingfinancial statements or giving
(25:32):
back they feel equipped to makesure that, again, that
communication makes the assetsreally last and that there's
stewardship from one generationto the next.
Speaker 1 (25:55):
And I have to ask do you find that in your experience
and I don't know if there's ananswer to this, but do you find
that is it parents orgrandparents that are typically
more intentional aboutinstilling those values?
Speaker 2 (26:06):
I think sometimes and Kelly may have another
perspective on this butsometimes it takes people until
they are grandparents to realizethat.
Oh my goodness, I want to makesure this gets instilled and I'm
going to start with thegrandchildren generation.
But it varies, it varies.
We have many clients who arereally starting to think about
(26:30):
how can I make an impact withtheir children.
There's also that balancebetween do I have the ability to
help my children?
Sometimes it's not untilthere's grandchildren that they
see that there's maybe a littlebit of a budget flexibility.
But again, it's not all abouthow much money you have.
It's about the values tied tothe money and the choices.
Speaker 3 (26:49):
Yeah, absolutely.
I think it is more grandparentsthat want to, and I don't think
it's a lack of intentionality.
I think it's time we're runningto gymnastics and track and, oh
my gosh, do we have dinnertogether?
And who's taking who where?
Don't have that time to sitback like you can when you're
(27:12):
older and retired and be likewhat was important in my life.
You don't have that ability toset that time, and so I do think
it's the grandparents that thatbecomes more important for.
But, that being said, I willtell you I don't know a single
parent that's like I could careless if my kid is financially
savvy.
We all want it.
We just don't have the time totry to think through how to
(27:33):
create that and how do I havethat conversation and things.
I think it's a lot of it.
A lot of it is differentgenerations will have different
values, the things, and part ofit is what we grew up with.
Very few of us grew up in thedepression era.
Even if you grew up really poor, you probably weren't to that
level.
Speaker 1 (27:53):
I had a secondhand iPhone right.
It was an iPhone 7.
Right right.
Speaker 3 (27:57):
The problems you had were not to that level.
I had to wear a shoe while ithad a hole in it, not like I had
a pair of shoes, and so part ofit was a different lifetime.
What we experienced A lot of itis also my husband and I had to
go without vacations, gowithout things.
We had to put that moneytowards things and maybe forego
(28:21):
some of the things that we had.
But by the time my kids wereold enough to remember, they
don't remember us having to dothat.
So because of it it's theirperception of things is
different.
So, teaching that delayedgratification but also not
depriving, and that finding thatbalance between those things,
because oftentimes a reason thatwe see that three generation of
(28:45):
build it, spend it, squander,it is because we see that family
member that worked, worked,worked, worked, worked, never
appreciated it, and so then itgoes to the other spectrum and
there's that pendulum swing, andso if we can keep that pendulum
in between and help the clientslike, okay, what can we do?
(29:05):
What's important to you and howdo we make this money be a tool
, great, let's do this.
And then it becomes a tool andnot a well.
Why would you want to do thattype of situation.
Speaker 1 (29:16):
So having that conversation and building in all
of those pieces we find reallyvaluable, One of the concepts
that you guys bring up in thebook, and you have a chapter on
this about what's called thesandwich generation, and so you
know, this is a person who isboth simultaneously helping and
supporting their aging parentsas well as they have children
(29:37):
that they're simultaneouslysupporting.
And what strategies orrecommendations do you have for
these folks, these parents, whoare caught in that sandwich
generation?
Speaker 2 (29:49):
I think when you're caught in the middle, there's so
much pressure and there's onlyso much of one person to go
around.
So I think, working with afinancial advisor through the
considerations you're trying tonavigate, I'm going to bring it
back to understanding top valuesand figuring out, based on your
values, what is feasible, let'ssay monetarily.
(30:09):
What's feasible that youprovide what's desired for you
to provide?
Let's say monetarily, what'sfeasible that you provide what's
desired for you to provide.
And if it is monetary, how doyou be able to support but also
have healthy boundaries aroundthat?
I often find when people arestretched in, sometimes this
happens at a time where peoplethink they're going to be
getting more life flexibility,and then it's a little bit of a
surprise and they don't alwaystake as much care of themselves.
(30:32):
They don't prioritize theself-care, they don't take
personal time and what we seetime and time again is that if
you're not nurturing yourselfand finding that time to carve
off, to make sure that you'regood, you're going to have some
limitations into how you canshow up as the best self for
helping others If you can affordto hire help, do so, helping
(30:55):
others.
Speaker 3 (30:55):
If you can afford to hire help, do so.
Another area is we're oftentempted to delegate, and during
difficult times, very wonderfulintentional people, very
wonderful people will have greatintentions and say, oh well,
let me know what you need and,honestly, during that time we
don't really know what we need.
And so do what you can tooffload and to share the mental
load of it.
So, if you have multiplesiblings, have one person take
(31:18):
care of the doctor visits, haveone person take care of the home
care.
Have one person doing this.
It will help with the mentalload.
Otherwise, it's like things arespiraling in your head and it's
too much of the mental load.
So try not to just delegatetasks.
Delegate the mental load aswell is a huge area.
I also strongly encourageputting together a plan with
(31:41):
your parents.
What have they put in place?
What are their wishes?
Do they want to stay home?
Do they want to go into anursing home?
Who has that ultimate decision?
When that happens, whatcommunication needs to be in
place?
If the child that's taking thebulk of the care is getting
burnt out, who is stepping in?
What's that trigger event oflike hey, mom, dad, I know you
want to stay home and I want tohelp that, but what's the thing
(32:04):
that's going to say it can't bethis way anymore?
Right, and that way you canguilt-free?
No, we talked about this aheadof time.
There is not.
Mom wanted me to do this and Ican't.
No, we talked about this aheadof time, this was our plan, this
is what we're putting in placeand that way it takes the
emotion and the guilt out of avery emotional time.
So the other thing is have anopen communication both now and
(32:29):
during the timeframe.
Everybody handles stress, griefdifferently.
Oftentimes it's in a way thatwe would never respond and it
can feel very judgmental.
You get upset.
You should be here more.
You should, whatever it may be.
You have to have that opencommunication so that you can
continue to talk things throughplan.
If this happens, we're going todo this and make sure that that
(32:51):
mental load is that plan is totake off.
Some of that.
Speaker 1 (32:54):
So there's the concept of wealth as an
amplifier and the way that thisis, that there's a saying, or
people say that if you suddenlybecome rich, it's going to make
you more of who you are, whetherthat's a really nice person or
or the other you know.
More of a jerk, more of a niceperson, right?
So it amplifies.
Wealth can amplify yourpersonality and those things.
Can you share an example of howyou've seen wealth amplify
(33:17):
someone's existing values in apositive way?
Speaker 3 (33:21):
So, growing up in a middle-class family, there was
this belief that wassubconsciously built into me.
I actually don't think anybodyever told it to me directly, but
through stories and thingsyou're kind of told that you
don't want to be rich because ifyou have a high power job or
you make a lot of money, you'renever going to see your kids.
You're going to sacrifice allthe things that are important to
(33:42):
you and you don't want thatright.
And because of it, I think Ifeared success almost as much as
I feared failure.
And it wasn't until I wastaught this concept by a
business coach of mine that myentire outlook changed.
My entire outlook on successchanged, and my ability to
communicate with clients aboutwealth changed as well, because
(34:06):
money is simply a tool.
The dollar amount on a statementis only that, it's just a
number.
What is the goal of the money?
What do you want the money todo for you?
Do you want it to give yousecurity?
Do you want it to make animpact in the world?
Do you want to make a betterlife for your kids?
And focusing on that takes awaythe love of money and brings in
the joy of purpose and seeingclients that give and want and
(34:31):
making an impact in theircommunity.
When they have more money,they're able to do more of it,
and somebody who is a bad parentand ignores their children
frankly would do that, whetherthey had money or not.
And yes, we hear the stories ofoh, this person became a
billionaire and never has spenttime with their family, but we
(34:52):
never knew who they were beforethat.
And when you actually see thatprocess, you see that it wasn't
the money that made that.
Speaker 1 (35:00):
It just amplified it.
Speaker 3 (35:02):
And that was such an aha moment of just completely
changing the view of how to lookat the wealth and what it is.
What do you want it to do for?
Speaker 1 (35:14):
you?
Yeah, I think it's fascinating.
You see someone today, but isit the money or was it just who
they were all along right?
So I think just theamplification is just
interesting to know.
Speaker 3 (35:23):
Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (35:25):
I think that may have been something that was a
desire all along.
Again, that's a core to who youare from the beginning.
You've just been able toamplify it as you're able to
feel like you have the abilityto do more, and that's really
what we want to get to is money.
Doesn't change you.
Speaker 3 (35:43):
It just really highlights who you are and I
would bet that, looking back,even if you couldn't afford to
give money, I bet when money wastight, you gave of your time
and of what you could in termsof where you added value, and I
think that's.
We give what we can andsometimes it's at different
stages and different things atdifferent stages of life, but if
(36:06):
we're somebody that wants togive, we're going to find a way
to give, even if it's notmonetarily.
Speaker 1 (36:10):
So now, your approach to retirement planning goes
well beyond the numbers as we'vebeen established here.
I came into this thinking it'sabout what my return on
investment in my portfolio isgoing to be, which is, I'm sure,
is important, but you've just,throughout this conversation, in
your book, you've just shownhow much more there is to it,
(36:31):
and I really would say just whatyou bring to the table in terms
of being able to work withfolks that are absent, having
that relationship with someonelike yourselves, you wouldn't
even imagine what are someemotional aspects of retirement
that people often overlook intheir planning.
Beyond what we've talked aboutso far, what else do you see as
(36:52):
some of those emotional aspectsthat people sometimes overlook?
Speaker 3 (36:56):
Everything about financial planning is emotional
and we like to pretend like it'sjust numbers, but the truth of
the matter is it's so much more.
We are full-time therapistshalf of the time.
One of my clients just retiredlast year and this market
volatility has themunderstandably nervous.
(37:17):
But having that conversationwith them about how the fact
that we planned for this, wehave cash on hand for the next
two to three years of cash needsand we have income producing
assets that are replenishingthat cash bucket.
And we have the long-termbuckets that, yes, are
fluctuating but in good yearsare flowing that profit down.
And we have the long-termbuckets that, yes, are
fluctuating but in good yearsare flowing that profit down and
(37:37):
in bad years we're not touchingthem.
We have the ability to let thatride and knowing, being able to
kind of bring that back andknowing that the client doesn't
have to change their lifestyle,it doesn't change their ability
to retire and not run out ofmoney, it doesn't change
anything from their portfoliowhen the market's going down
like this, Gives them such apeace of mind and if you're just
(38:02):
looking at a number standpointof like, oh nope, we're just
going to put this money overhere and we're going to let it
ride and there's an emotionaltoll to that.
That is terrifying for clients,and so if we can reduce that
emotion and know that they arein place, that's a huge factor.
Speaker 2 (38:20):
Yeah, there's a lot of emotions.
I was talking to a client thispast week and the conversation
was around the client's spouseand this would be emotional even
in good times, and there's morelife changes going on so we
can't even talk about certainthings right now, and so that's
our job.
It's our job to be level headed.
I think when you're talkingabout retirement and emotions
about retirement, change can beemotional.
(38:41):
In general, I actually changeis always emotional for me and I
need time to process it, andthen when there's any extra
deviations from what's expected,it just really amplifies those
emotions.
When I work with clients, I wantthem to understand that this is
going to be the first time youretire For most people.
Some people retire more thanonce, but most people retire
(39:03):
once, and while it's the firsttime that they're going through
it, this is what we do for aliving.
We help clients manage thattransition and if they didn't
have any emotions around it,they would probably be the first
client I had ever worked withthat did not have emotions
around it.
This is our job.
Our job is to be thatlevel-headed sounding board and
(39:24):
again, we are that trustedpartner through it all.
We do really get to know ourclients that holistically, we
are there and helping themthrough.
As Kelly's mentioning it,sometimes you feel a little bit
like a therapist, but that'spart of the role.
Speaker 3 (39:39):
Another big area of emotions that clients really
seem to overlook is the idea ofretiring to something.
Retirement is so much more thanjust walking away from your
paycheck.
Your job creates a socialnetwork, a sense of purpose,
maybe a sense of accomplishment,things of that sort.
And you may live 30 plus yearsin retirement.
(40:03):
In fact nowadays that's prettycommon, so most people would say
that's a pretty long time.
In many cases it's as long asyou worked.
Where are you going to get thatsense of accomplishment, that
sense of purpose, that joy,those different things?
And there's definitely atransition period going into
retirement and keeping thatemotional aspect.
(40:25):
Unfortunately, it's notuncommon to see a little bout of
depression going intoretirement for that exact reason
.
Finding that new normal is thisall there is?
When you have a better plan ofwhat you're going to do in
retirement, that transition goesfrom that really volatile
market to that incline which iseasier to manage.
Speaker 1 (40:45):
I can imagine that most people hire a financial
advisor and come to you for thefinances to start with.
But just as you're talking, I'mwondering as you're working
with people, do you find thatthey're actually in better shape
to retire financially andpossibly less prepared to really
appreciate and anticipate whatit means to retire and no longer
(41:08):
have work or that purpose thatthey've had up until now?
Speaker 3 (41:13):
Yep, absolutely.
A lot of times it's even aconversation of do you want to
retire in the middle of winter?
I'm in the Chicagoland area.
It's pretty cold and drearyhere, so if you're somebody that
wants to be outdoors all thetime, you may not want to retire
in the middle of winter.
You may want to wait till it'ssummer and you can enjoy it and
have that transition.
Sometimes it's a matter ofgoing from working 80 hours a
(41:36):
week to nothing, but it's likehitting a brick wall.
Can we scale that and that wayyou build into that, yeah, so
this has been, for me, afascinating interview.
Speaker 1 (41:47):
I hope our audience is enjoying it, and it just goes
to show that there's so muchmore to financial planning than
simply the numbers.
The numbers are important, butthere's so much more that goes
into it.
You guys have done an excellentjob in articulating a lot of
those things.
I really have enjoyed thisconversation today.
If your readers of your bookwere to take away one message
(42:08):
from the book Intentional Legacy, what's that one lesson or that
one aha moment that you hopethat they take away?
Speaker 2 (42:16):
I think, as we've talked about this, the word I'm
actually a little cautious onthe word legacy, because I do
think it makes people thinkabout end of life, right 70s,
80s, 90s, estate planning,whatever it may be.
But we really want this to be aconsideration, something you
should think about as early as Iwould say we're 30s, like
(42:36):
that's the time you startgetting really grounded.
But the idea is a legacy.
It's not just what you leave atthe end, it's the choices along
the way, it's the values you'rebuilding.
This is something that, if wecan have meaningful conversation
and build a game plan that yes,it is intentional it really
makes a difference.
We never know how long our lifeis going to be.
(42:59):
We don't know the curve ballsthat we're going to have, but if
we can be really thoughtful, itcan make all the difference.
It can make the difference foryou, your family, the future
generations, and that the legacyit's not just dollars, it is
the values, it's the lessons,and we might as well start that
right away.
Speaker 1 (43:17):
As we start to wrap up, is there anything that I
haven't asked you that you thinkis important to this
conversation?
Speaker 2 (43:25):
I would.
Just it's that idea of okay sofinancial planning, financial
advisor again, people thinkabout their account statements
and did I beat a certain indexor how did that go?
But really, when we're beingintentional, when we're doing
comprehensive financial planning, we're not just wrapping our
arms around how much have yousaved in your 401k this year?
(43:47):
We're wrapping our lives or ourarms around our clients' whole
financial situations, oftenreally deeply, getting to know
them and their families and thatholistic advice.
There's a lot of decisions inlife and what we really like to
do is a phrase used in the bookbut really lift that quote fog
of uncertainty.
How can we live in a way thatwe're helping and partnering
(44:10):
alongside you so you can go livethe life you want to live and
you don't have to have theuncertainty of am I doing enough
?
Have I planned?
Let's make sure that we'redoing what we need to and go
enjoy, live your life.
Don't make this something thatyou dwell on more than needed.
I also like to add this hasjust been such a fun experience
for me and it's been sorewarding, just as Kelly and I
(44:33):
have deepened our relationshipas a team, really believe in
that team approach and writingthis book together.
We had a lot of fun.
We actually were supposed to beat a conference and all of a
sudden the hurricane startedhitting Florida and we had to
cancel our flight last minute.
We decided, you know what,let's go hunker down in a hotel
in Fort Worth and really putMind to Matter and work on this,
(44:56):
on this book together, on theedits that we were doing, and
Kelly quickly learned that FortWorth and Grapevine or Dallas,
they're not all one in the same.
Each area has its own flair,but I think it's important.
This is something we're reallypassionate about.
We love it.
So I just think having apassion project is great and I
think, if there's anything thatyou're passionate about, go find
(45:19):
others who share your passion,because working with others that
share your focus on excellenceand if you can be iron,
sharpening iron and bring yourminds together, you can create
something that's truly great andreally grow as a person and
grow as a team, and I think thathas been one of the most
meaningful things I've takenaway from this process.
(45:40):
And I think combined are justcare and love for our clients
and ability to make a difference.
I really hope shines throughwith our book, because this is
what we're passionate about.
This is what gets us up andgoing in the mornings Amazing.
Speaker 1 (45:56):
For someone that's with us so far, has been
listening and is excited aboutthis message and can't wait to
jump into the book.
Where can they get a copy ofthe book?
Speaker 2 (46:02):
Go to intentionallegacybookcom and
that'll take you to our page andyou can requesta copy and Kelly
and I will make sure you get acopy.
We'll reach out to you as ateam and really make sure that
we can get a copy in your hands.
Speaker 1 (46:16):
Perfect IntentionalLegacyBookcom.
Fantastic, I'm excited.
I want to get a copy.
I'm going to go there right nowand get my copy of the book.
Thank you so much for your timetoday.
I've really enjoyed theconversation and it gives me a
new appreciation of all thevalue that you bring to your
(46:37):
clients and really theimportance of being able to have
someone like yourselves, beyondthe investments, really as a
sounding board, because you'vehighlighted so many different
things that go into this and ifI didn't have you guys, who else
would I talk to about thesethings?
You definitely have a greatmessage.
I love that you put it into abook and I'm looking forward to
(46:58):
reading it.
Speaker 3 (46:59):
Thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (46:59):
Okay bye for now.
What if your financial decisions today could
shape not just your future butcreate ripples of impact for
generations to come?
What if the way you talk aboutmoney with your children or
handle financial challengescould become their blueprint for
success?
These aren't just end-of-lifeconsiderations.
They're questions that matterright now, whether you're in
(00:23):
your 30s building a career, your40s raising a family, or your
60s planning your next chapter.
Yet traditional financialplanning rarely addresses these
deeper dimensions.
Meet Morgan Nichols and KellyBays, authors of the
groundbreaking book IntentionalLegacy.
What sets their new book apartis their transformative
(00:45):
perspective.
That legacy isn't something youplan for at the end of life.
It's something you live rightnow.
Your legacy isn't just what youleave behind when you're gone,
they argue.
It's in how you teach yourchildren about money over the
dinner table.
It's in how you balanceenjoying today while preparing
for tomorrow.
It's in the values that guideyour financial decisions every
(01:07):
single day.
In this conversation, you'lldiscover why understanding your
top five personal values is thefoundation of all financial
decisions.
How to break the dreadedthree-generation cycle where
wealth is built, enjoyed thensquandered.
Three-generation cycle wherewealth is built, enjoyed then
(01:28):
squandered.
Practical strategies for thesandwich generation juggling
children and aging parents,without burning out the
emotional blind spots ofretirement that can derail even
the best funded plans.
How to ensure your wealthamplifies your true self rather
than changing who you are.
If you've ever felt thattraditional financial advice
misses the human element, thevalues, emotions and
(01:49):
relationships that give meaningto wealth, then this
conversation is for you.
Welcome, morgan and Kelly.
So glad to have you guys heretoday and I'm so excited for you
.
You literally just got yourbook in the mail today, correct?
Speaker 2 (02:14):
We sure did.
It's right here.
Speaker 1 (02:18):
Now I know this has been a bit of a journey.
I think it started when we metin May of last year, and here we
are.
This is where, in my mind, thefun begins and where all that
hard work that I know you guyshave put into it it starts to
bear fruit.
So I'm excited to have youtoday on the podcast to do this
author interview with us, and somy first question for you guys
(02:39):
is just tell us a little bitabout your backgrounds and how
you each found your way intofinancial advising and, morgan,
if you'd like to start,Absolutely so.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
I think I was probably destined to be a
financial advisor.
I am the first born of twofinancial advisors, so Apple did
not fall far from the tree.
I went off to college I thoughtI was going to do international
business.
I thought I was headed into theAir Force.
I had a few changes that camealong the way and when I sat
(03:10):
back and said, well, what do Iwant to do, I realized I really
like personal finance and myfriends didn't enjoy it quite as
much as I did.
So I started my career inwholesaling and that was great.
I got so much learning, so muchof experience.
But I realized I wasn't gettingto work with individuals and
that was really important to meto make a direct impact in
(03:33):
people, part of the servantleadership that I learned in
school.
I can't believe it.
It's been 10 years.
I joined Ameriprise and I'venever looked back.
I love being able to work withindividuals and with families.
Speaker 1 (03:45):
Yeah, and you said that you're the first child, so
are your parents financialadvisors.
Speaker 2 (03:51):
My parents are, so I was born with principles out of
the gate.
I used to do my homework at theconference table and there was
a time I earned a dollar an hourhelping to do little odd and
end tasks at the office.
I think they first startedgiving me a few things to do.
I was about eight years old,and then we just built from
there.
Speaker 1 (04:10):
That's amazing.
Very cool, Kelly.
How about you?
Speaker 3 (04:13):
I had a little bit of a different background.
I grew up in a verymiddle-class family.
My mom was a teacher and my dadwas in sales and I very much
thought I was going to go intoteaching.
But I took a sales job incollege and I loved the freedom,
the flexibility, having controlof my income, my time and I,
(04:35):
similar to Morgan, likedfinancial budgeting and
financial topics and things farmore than many of my friends.
So as I was teaching mysorority sisters, I decided I
think I want to do this buthonestly, my only experience
with it was what I saw in themovies, you know, wolf of Wall
(04:56):
Street and stockbrokers, and Isaid I don't know if I want to
do that.
Speaker 1 (04:59):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (05:00):
So I went and knocked on doors.
I went and knocked on fivedifferent companies' doors and
said I think I want to do whatyou do, but I'm not exactly sure
.
Yeah, and I had a great mentorthat took me in, let me intern
for him and graduated andstarted with Ameriprise 19 years
ago and it has just beenamazing seeing the impact with
(05:21):
clients.
And I still get to be thatteacher.
Yeah, I still tease my clientsthat I'm giving them homework,
but I get to teach adults and Iget to have that flexibility and
I love it.
Speaker 1 (05:32):
So with that in mind, what inspired you to write your
book Intentional Legacytogether?
So you guys are co-authors ofthis book.
So what inspired you guys?
Two-part question what inspiredyou guys to A write the book
together as co-authors and sojust kind of share what your
relationship is together?
Speaker 2 (05:53):
Yes, it's funny that the name of the book is
Intentional Legacy, because I'mfinding this theme of just
intentionality across the board,as I think through a lot of
this book coming to fruition andjust how both Kelly and I lead.
Kelly joined LifeBranch andwhen that happened, we really
wanted to make sure we werecollaborating our thoughts how
(06:14):
we serve our clients.
Both of us really want to makesure we're always bringing that
best experience to our clientsand that they're getting that
team approach.
So this book became really thepassion project behind us,
saying, well, kelly, how do youmake an impact in this area?
And Morgan, how do you make animpact?
(06:34):
And how do we bring our mindstogether to really bring the
idea about the benefit of thecomprehensive advice that we
provide and our passion aroundmaking a generational impact.
And we found that we werereally united in our approach
there.
But, working together, we werereally able to learn a lot about
one another.
Speaker 1 (06:54):
That's awesome, Kelly .
Would you add anything?
Speaker 3 (06:56):
I'm not sure I could say it much better than Morgan
just did.
We have different strengths andwriting the book together was
fun.
Where she excelled was an areathat I was just really fun
(07:24):
writing together and talkingthrough the intentionality of
our legacy that we want to buildwith LifeBranch as well.
Speaker 1 (07:34):
Yeah, very cool.
Okay, who is the ideal readerfor your book Intentional Legacy
and, more importantly, whatinsights or takeaways can they
expect to get out of it?
Speaker 2 (07:46):
So I think that this is a book for everyone and it
should be shared with everyone'sloved ones.
So I know that's a really broadaudience.
But there, if I also thinkabout it, if you're searching
for deeper meaning on connectingyour finances to your values,
if you're just searching for, Isay, more in general, right,
you've been putting good thingsin place, but you want to know,
(08:09):
is there anything you've missed?
What else can we do to makethings more comprehensive?
I also find there's a lot ofpeople that are trying to
balance us planning for thefuture with, like, what do you
do today and how do we make animpact today?
That's really what we focusedon.
This book I also think about.
This book is great for otheradvisors who really want to make
(08:30):
sure they're bringing more totheir clients and they're
collaborating with like-mindedadvisors.
That's something Kelly and Iwant to continue to do is
collaborate with advisors thatshare our passion, our mindset
and our values and want to trulymake an impact for their
clients.
Speaker 3 (08:46):
The other person I would say is it can be a little
intimidating to meet with afinancial advisor, especially,
as I mentioned, that was notsomething that I grew up with,
and so this is a really greatway to kind of get to know us a
little bit before making thatcall.
What is the experience like,and and what?
Who are these people?
And I think that's also just areally powerful way to see our
(09:09):
approach.
Speaker 1 (09:09):
Yeah, absolutely, and that's what I love about having
a book and even doing podcastslike this is that I think it's a
scary decision.
It's going into a relationshipwith someone who can have a that
you're, that you need to trust,that you want to trust and can
have a huge impact on yourretirement, which can span
decades, and so it's such animportant decision.
And how do you make thatdecision effectively?
And so just having givingpeople opportunity to really
(09:30):
understand your values and whoyou are as people, I think
fantastic.
One of the central themes ofyour book is the concept of
aligning financial decisionswith personal values, and so
help us understand that.
Can you walk us through how youhelp your clients discover
their true financial values?
Speaker 2 (09:49):
Yes.
So you know it's interestingtoo.
You're talking about the amountof trust that clients are
putting in their advisor whenthey work with them.
So we're getting at a wholenother deeper level when we
start working with our clientsto understand their personal
values, the financial values.
So we really have to start withpersonal values Really.
What are those top things thatdrive you as a person?
(10:11):
And we used filtering that down, really getting to clients top
five values to then understandhow do we make financial
decisions in alignment withthose values?
I like to think about it.
I have a client and this isn'ta cookie cutter approach right,
really customize our plans toour clients.
It's not a one size fits all.
So when I work with a clientwho came to me and I learned one
(10:36):
of his top five values wasflexibility and he also really
loves adventure.
So this idea of working incorporate America, grinding hard
until the age of 65 andretiring, that really did not
provide the flexibility for theadventure, the travels, the
exploring that he wants to do,along with the flexibility of
life.
(10:56):
Now, his job right now doesrequire a commitment, but we
really needed to look at if thattruly flexibility is important
to a lot of people but it's notnecessarily one of their top
five values.
So if it's a top value, how dowe create a plan that works,
that we still are making surethat financial goals and plans
(11:17):
and longevity of assets andeverything is still there, going
to work, but in a way that thatperson's going to feel like
their life is being lived in theway that that's giving them a
sense of purpose?
If we just give clients an ideaof here's the cookie cutter
approach of what you need to do,if it doesn't resonate, they're
not going to follow it.
(11:38):
So we really want to make surewe can create a plan that meets
both the client's financialneeds but also their personal
needs and helps them feel likethey have a life well lived.
Speaker 1 (11:48):
I think that's such an important point because for
someone, maybe someone likemyself, until recently I had not
been working actively with afinancial advisor and I'm just
thinking in terms of manage mymoney, do this, do that, but I'm
not thinking, or I wasn'tthinking, necessarily in terms
of how they can help me and mywife communicate and actually
(12:08):
prioritize and actuallydetermine what are those
personal values that actuallydrive us the most.
And so I can imagine thebenefit that you bring your
clients when you actually helpthem prioritize that and
actually, probably in some casesit's actually realized huh,
what are our values?
And maybe what are our valuesas a couple?
Because, honey, I've neverasked you that.
Speaker 2 (12:28):
Well and that's what we find is, a lot of couples
haven't had that conversationand I would say probably you and
your spouse have some similarvalues, but there's probably one
or two that are different andthat has been that's why we
argue all the time.
Well, when I did it with myspouse, I realized like I
started understanding him at awhole new level and I can
(12:49):
appreciate things when Iunderstand it's somebody's top
value.
So it's a great exercise to dofor finances, but it's also
great to do just to understandyourself better and understand
your loved ones better.
Speaker 1 (13:01):
And Kelly, I'm going to ask you to expand upon that,
and just part of that questionthat comes to my mind is is how
do you help them determine that?
I'm just curious about yourprocess, if you're able to share
anything about that as well.
Speaker 3 (13:11):
Absolutely.
Sometimes it's just aconversation of digging a little
bit deeper, but we actually dohave a values exercise that they
can.
There's a deck of cards thatthey kind of break out which
ones yes, no, yes, no and thenthey scale it down.
Taking it from 20 to 5 isreally hard.
It depends on the client.
(13:32):
Some of them really want to diginto that cards and others just
kind of want to have thatconversation and big picture and
kind of scale it back fromthere.
The thing is this is a journey.
Retirement, financial planning,all of it is a journey.
We work with clients all theway from in their 20s, all the
way up till past 90.
And retirement's not a day.
(13:52):
Yes, every client we plan forretirement, but we work with
people well past theirretirement day because it's the
journey that's through it andyou're gonna have that legacy
and create that legacy at everystage of your life.
So if we can help you liveintentionally in your finances
both today and in future, itdoesn't.
(14:14):
You don't have that.
Oh, why did I save for thefuture, why I should have lived
for today kind of mentality?
Because you get to live itintentionally and therefore you
get to live it right, the entirejourney.
Speaker 1 (14:25):
I think that's a really interesting point,
because I think there's broadlytwo camps of people, right.
There's like, hey, let's justlive for today and who knows
what's going to happen tomorrow.
And then there's the ones thatare planning for the future.
And how do you reallyespecially if it's a couple
right?
It's like, how do you balancethose two things?
Speaker 3 (14:40):
And you got to have both.
You know you can't put everypenny away and save for the what
ifs, because what if it doesn'thappen?
We all know of somebody in thatsituation.
At the same time, what if itdoes?
We have to plan for both, andso if we can help you live
intentionally in your values,making decisions that align with
(15:03):
that, there's really no regrets.
Speaker 1 (15:05):
So I'm hearing two words stand out, so legacy and
values.
And oftentimes when I hear theword legacy, I'm thinking, okay,
when I'm on my deathbed and Ithink, okay, what did I leave
behind?
And if I have any moneyremaining, where's it going to
go and what are they going to dowith that?
And at the same time as I hearthe word values, I see it really
much more as something that youshould be intentional and
(15:27):
thinking about throughout thatwhole journey and so just in
whatever you want to just helpme wrap my head around both of
those.
So, like a 30 year old, 40 yearold, 50 year old, help me
understand that the term legacybetter in that context.
So when they're thinking aboutlegacy, it's not put off until
the end of their life, but it'stoday.
Speaker 3 (15:43):
Yeah, absolutely, and I was even guilty of that early
in my year in my career.
We would push.
I would push off the legacyconversation with clients until
they were late in retirement.
We knew that they were going toat this point.
We know there's going to bemoney.
We have to do something with it.
Now let's have this legacyconversation and I would
intentionally push it off, andwhat I learned is that it
(16:04):
shouldn't wait until the end,because it's all about how you
live your life today.
You are going to leave a legacywhen you leave this world,
whether you leave it at 20 or 99.
You have made an impact, youhave made a footprint in this
world, so why not make itintentional?
Speaker 2 (16:23):
Piggybacking on that.
I like to think of a story.
It's like when you talk aboutlegacy and values.
I think that legacy that youleave behind it's what are
people going to remember aboutyou and what impact did you
leave on the world.
And I'll just use a simpleexample With my family, when I
was quite young, I earned anallowance.
Right, let's say I was 10 yearsold and I earned $10.
Speaker 1 (16:47):
Given or earned.
Speaker 2 (16:49):
Earned.
Speaker 3 (16:50):
Oh I absolutely had to earn it.
Speaker 2 (16:52):
Yeah.
No there was chore charts andeverything, and I could even
earn more if I worked hard.
Speaker 1 (16:58):
So again that right there like how do you?
Speaker 2 (17:01):
it's probably why I'm an entrepreneur is because I
was always given a roadmap intohere's option A and option B.
But when we earned ourallowance early on, I remember
being in church and learningthat, okay, you need to give 10%
back into making the world abetter place.
I may have been giving $1, butthat was a mindset and a value
(17:25):
that was being instilled in meby my family early on and I had
the values instilled in me and,like you need to save half of
your income, or that's what Iwas being told as a kid, or how
do you?
bucket things, and I think whatI learned from people that have
multiple children is differentchildren adapt to some of what's
being taught more than others,that every child is different.
(17:48):
But you start building lessons,whether it's on saving or it's
anything else.
When generations look back andyou pay it forward and you look
at, well, what are you doing andwho influenced that?
And oh, that came from GrandpaJoe or whoever it ends up being.
That is part of the legacy.
It's not just the money at theend, it's all the lessons along
(18:09):
the way.
Speaker 1 (18:10):
I think that's a great example.
I think that's a terrificexample and I think that's
something that a parentlistening to this definitely
probably is thinking.
Okay, what I'm imagining most,most parents aren't as
intentional.
There we go, there's the wordright.
Aren't as intentional, and so Ithink what your parents did
with you is is fantastic.
Speaker 2 (18:27):
You aren't as intentional, and so I think what
your parents did with you isfantastic.
You can start somewhere.
Speaker 1 (18:31):
It doesn't have to be big, right, it can be little
lessons that build upon eachother, and that's why I clarify
was it earned or was it given?
And you're like it was earned,okay, fantastic, and you could
actually earn more.
And they taught you thesereally cool lessons, which
obviously have had a profoundimpact on you, very cool.
Speaker 3 (18:50):
Well, and I will tell you that in many cases both
work and that's what we've seen.
My allowance and I kind of talkabout this in the book but I
got an allowance and it wasgiven we got our age every week
and we had to split it intothree jars One was for quick
cash, one was for long-termsavings and one was for taxes
and the taxes had to go towardsour family vacations and
long-term, went into our savingsaccount for college.
(19:12):
And then the quick cash is wecould spend.
And yes, there's validity toboth sides.
But I say that because I thinkso many times, especially in
this society that there's somuch information, we get a
little paralyzed as parents oflike, oh my gosh, we're going to
do it wrong, oh my gosh.
(19:32):
Honestly, I think it's justabout teaching our kids and
having conversations about moneyand getting them used to
understanding that when they getmoney, it's not all theirs
right away, we're not taking allof it, but teaching them to
make decisions with their moneyand understanding that,
unfortunately, like, there'salways a decision to be made
Right.
So getting that used to it isalso a really valuable lesson.
Speaker 1 (19:54):
How do you guys help your clients with this?
Because I can see getting intouch with your own values maybe
you and your spouse getting intouch with your values,
especially as you're planningyour own, say, retirement or
savings goals but do you haveany methods or do you even coach
or advise your clients on howto do these things that you're
describing when it comes totheir children or maybe their
(20:16):
grandchildren?
Speaker 2 (20:17):
I think that's when we're doing comprehensive
planning with our clients andwe're starting to pull
information together and we'redigging in on their values.
It's having that conversationthat goes a layer deeper to
figure out what is mostimportant to them.
For example, I'll use familycomes up a lot as a top value.
Well, for some people thatmeans I want to be physically
(20:40):
present with my family and forother people that might mean I
just don't want my family toever want for anything.
I want to be able to meet thefinancial needs.
So, having authenticconversations with our clients,
finding out their values butalso how do they define those
values and then building a gameplan and seeing sometimes
(21:01):
there's values but there's notnecessarily enough money to
support what they want to do.
So it's reframing andprioritizing and that's where we
really get into the deeperplanning overall to help make
sure that our clients get thatpeace of mind and our kind of
our tagline is financialconfidence for life.
How do we help build that?
(21:21):
Through the decisions, andthere's sometimes a lot of
decisions to be made.
Speaker 1 (21:26):
Yeah, no, I can imagine.
Speaker 3 (21:27):
I also would say we encourage multi-generational
meetings.
I love when the kids are income to my meetings.
We have a little specialcoloring area for them so that
they're there and they'regetting to be.
They get to see that.
That's part of it.
From a spouse standpoint, Itease my clients that this may
be the only two times a yearthat you guys talk finances.
(21:50):
So let's do it, Even if nothingseems like it's changing.
Let's meet and go through it,because that you ask one spouse.
Do you guys think you talkabout your finances enough?
One may be like, oh my gosh, wetalk nonstop, and the other is
like we never talk about ourfinances.
So it's all about theperspective, but it's really
(22:10):
just being that third partyhelping that conversation.
I am a big believer thatcommunication, that open
communication, sharing thesuccesses, sharing the screw ups
with your kids, with yourparents, being that safe
environment.
I think you should talk to yourfamily about money, because and
you don't have to be an expert,you don't have to know it all
(22:31):
Maybe the answer is you need aKelly, you need a Morgan, and
that's okay.
That's why we do what we do,because it allows for that.
It's okay to make mistakes, butit's also okay to ask for help
and work with somebody.
Speaker 1 (22:45):
I find it from personal experience I it just
what you said to be so true andamazing how, just in my own case
I'm 49 now and I've beenmarried for over 20 years and my
wife and I have never reallysat down and got into the
disgust and planned and got onthe same page long-term about
values, until we had a chance towork with an advisor who said
(23:05):
you guys need to sit downtogether and we're going to have
this conversation together so Ican see how much value you
bring to your clients throughthat.
Absolutely I love it.
So in the book you introducedthe concept of simultaneous
multi-generational success andI'm going to say that again
simultaneous multi-generalsuccess.
What does that mean?
Speaker 2 (23:26):
I think some people wonder if that's even possible.
Right, there's this idea goingback time over time that if you
have three generations, you'vegot the first generation that's
worked so hard to earn the money, you've got the second
generation that enjoys thefruits of the first generation's
labor and then the thirdgeneration that squanders that
(24:02):
money away.
So it's, what's the point?
Is the money the nextgeneration or the generation
after?
Think?
There's a reality thatgenerations are sometimes going
to see topics differently.
I see it within my own family.
It could be whether on likeviewpoints on college or
viewpoints on whatever else itmay be.
There's different perspectives,perspectives.
(24:26):
We're not necessarily going tochange the perspectives of each
generation, but if we can get tothe point of sharing the values
and helping younger generationsagain kind of going back to
what we've already been talkingabout learn lessons early on,
hopefully they're betterprepared to then be really good
stewards of whatever they mayinherit down the road.
I actually have a client rightnow.
It's really fun.
He has a handful ofgrandchildren and he wants them
(24:50):
to understand the importance oflong term investing and caring
about finances.
So each of them have individualaccounts.
I think there's a handful ofcompany stocks, names.
We all know, whether it'stechnology or Fortune 500
companies that are often in thenews, and each of the
grandchildren own, let's say,one share of a few of these
(25:12):
different companies.
okay, well, all of a sudden theclient's telling me hey, my
grandson was just talking to meand then telling me about the
news he saw on so-and-so companyand what it's doing is it's
when the next generation feelsinvolved and we can get them
involved, whether it's watchingfinancial statements or giving
(25:32):
back they feel equipped to makesure that, again, that
communication makes the assetsreally last and that there's
stewardship from one generationto the next.
Speaker 1 (25:55):
And I have to ask do you find that in your experience
and I don't know if there's ananswer to this, but do you find
that is it parents orgrandparents that are typically
more intentional aboutinstilling those values?
Speaker 2 (26:06):
I think sometimes and Kelly may have another
perspective on this butsometimes it takes people until
they are grandparents to realizethat.
Oh my goodness, I want to makesure this gets instilled and I'm
going to start with thegrandchildren generation.
But it varies, it varies.
We have many clients who arereally starting to think about
(26:30):
how can I make an impact withtheir children.
There's also that balancebetween do I have the ability to
help my children?
Sometimes it's not untilthere's grandchildren that they
see that there's maybe a littlebit of a budget flexibility.
But again, it's not all abouthow much money you have.
It's about the values tied tothe money and the choices.
Speaker 3 (26:49):
Yeah, absolutely.
I think it is more grandparentsthat want to, and I don't think
it's a lack of intentionality.
I think it's time we're runningto gymnastics and track and, oh
my gosh, do we have dinnertogether?
And who's taking who where?
Don't have that time to sitback like you can when you're
(27:12):
older and retired and be likewhat was important in my life.
You don't have that ability toset that time, and so I do think
it's the grandparents that thatbecomes more important for.
But, that being said, I willtell you I don't know a single
parent that's like I could careless if my kid is financially
savvy.
We all want it.
We just don't have the time totry to think through how to
(27:33):
create that and how do I havethat conversation and things.
I think it's a lot of it.
A lot of it is differentgenerations will have different
values, the things, and part ofit is what we grew up with.
Very few of us grew up in thedepression era.
Even if you grew up really poor, you probably weren't to that
level.
Speaker 1 (27:53):
I had a secondhand iPhone right.
It was an iPhone 7.
Right right.
Speaker 3 (27:57):
The problems you had were not to that level.
I had to wear a shoe while ithad a hole in it, not like I had
a pair of shoes, and so part ofit was a different lifetime.
What we experienced A lot of itis also my husband and I had to
go without vacations, gowithout things.
We had to put that moneytowards things and maybe forego
(28:21):
some of the things that we had.
But by the time my kids wereold enough to remember, they
don't remember us having to dothat.
So because of it it's theirperception of things is
different.
So, teaching that delayedgratification but also not
depriving, and that finding thatbalance between those things,
because oftentimes a reason thatwe see that three generation of
(28:45):
build it, spend it, squander,it is because we see that family
member that worked, worked,worked, worked, worked, never
appreciated it, and so then itgoes to the other spectrum and
there's that pendulum swing, andso if we can keep that pendulum
in between and help the clientslike, okay, what can we do?
(29:05):
What's important to you and howdo we make this money be a tool
, great, let's do this.
And then it becomes a tool andnot a well.
Why would you want to do thattype of situation.
Speaker 1 (29:16):
So having that conversation and building in all
of those pieces we find reallyvaluable, One of the concepts
that you guys bring up in thebook, and you have a chapter on
this about what's called thesandwich generation, and so you
know, this is a person who isboth simultaneously helping and
supporting their aging parentsas well as they have children
(29:37):
that they're simultaneouslysupporting.
And what strategies orrecommendations do you have for
these folks, these parents, whoare caught in that sandwich
generation?
Speaker 2 (29:49):
I think when you're caught in the middle, there's so
much pressure and there's onlyso much of one person to go
around.
So I think, working with afinancial advisor through the
considerations you're trying tonavigate, I'm going to bring it
back to understanding top valuesand figuring out, based on your
values, what is feasible, let'ssay monetarily.
(30:09):
What's feasible that youprovide what's desired for you
to provide?
Let's say monetarily, what'sfeasible that you provide what's
desired for you to provide.
And if it is monetary, how doyou be able to support but also
have healthy boundaries aroundthat?
I often find when people arestretched in, sometimes this
happens at a time where peoplethink they're going to be
getting more life flexibility,and then it's a little bit of a
surprise and they don't alwaystake as much care of themselves.
(30:32):
They don't prioritize theself-care, they don't take
personal time and what we seetime and time again is that if
you're not nurturing yourselfand finding that time to carve
off, to make sure that you'regood, you're going to have some
limitations into how you canshow up as the best self for
helping others If you can affordto hire help, do so, helping
(30:55):
others.
Speaker 3 (30:55):
If you can afford to hire help, do so.
Another area is we're oftentempted to delegate, and during
difficult times, very wonderfulintentional people, very
wonderful people will have greatintentions and say, oh well,
let me know what you need and,honestly, during that time we
don't really know what we need.
And so do what you can tooffload and to share the mental
load of it.
So, if you have multiplesiblings, have one person take
(31:18):
care of the doctor visits, haveone person take care of the home
care.
Have one person doing this.
It will help with the mentalload.
Otherwise, it's like things arespiraling in your head and it's
too much of the mental load.
So try not to just delegatetasks.
Delegate the mental load aswell is a huge area.
I also strongly encourageputting together a plan with
(31:41):
your parents.
What have they put in place?
What are their wishes?
Do they want to stay home?
Do they want to go into anursing home?
Who has that ultimate decision?
When that happens, whatcommunication needs to be in
place?
If the child that's taking thebulk of the care is getting
burnt out, who is stepping in?
What's that trigger event oflike hey, mom, dad, I know you
want to stay home and I want tohelp that, but what's the thing
(32:04):
that's going to say it can't bethis way anymore?
Right, and that way you canguilt-free?
No, we talked about this aheadof time.
There is not.
Mom wanted me to do this and Ican't.
No, we talked about this aheadof time, this was our plan, this
is what we're putting in placeand that way it takes the
emotion and the guilt out of avery emotional time.
So the other thing is have anopen communication both now and
(32:29):
during the timeframe.
Everybody handles stress, griefdifferently.
Oftentimes it's in a way thatwe would never respond and it
can feel very judgmental.
You get upset.
You should be here more.
You should, whatever it may be.
You have to have that opencommunication so that you can
continue to talk things throughplan.
If this happens, we're going todo this and make sure that that
(32:51):
mental load is that plan is totake off.
Some of that.
Speaker 1 (32:54):
So there's the concept of wealth as an
amplifier and the way that thisis, that there's a saying, or
people say that if you suddenlybecome rich, it's going to make
you more of who you are, whetherthat's a really nice person or
or the other you know.
More of a jerk, more of a niceperson, right?
So it amplifies.
Wealth can amplify yourpersonality and those things.
Can you share an example of howyou've seen wealth amplify
(33:17):
someone's existing values in apositive way?
Speaker 3 (33:21):
So, growing up in a middle-class family, there was
this belief that wassubconsciously built into me.
I actually don't think anybodyever told it to me directly, but
through stories and thingsyou're kind of told that you
don't want to be rich because ifyou have a high power job or
you make a lot of money, you'renever going to see your kids.
You're going to sacrifice allthe things that are important to
(33:42):
you and you don't want thatright.
And because of it, I think Ifeared success almost as much as
I feared failure.
And it wasn't until I wastaught this concept by a
business coach of mine that myentire outlook changed.
My entire outlook on successchanged, and my ability to
communicate with clients aboutwealth changed as well, because
(34:06):
money is simply a tool.
The dollar amount on a statementis only that, it's just a
number.
What is the goal of the money?
What do you want the money todo for you?
Do you want it to give yousecurity?
Do you want it to make animpact in the world?
Do you want to make a betterlife for your kids?
And focusing on that takes awaythe love of money and brings in
the joy of purpose and seeingclients that give and want and
(34:31):
making an impact in theircommunity.
When they have more money,they're able to do more of it,
and somebody who is a bad parentand ignores their children
frankly would do that, whetherthey had money or not.
And yes, we hear the stories ofoh, this person became a
billionaire and never has spenttime with their family, but we
(34:52):
never knew who they were beforethat.
And when you actually see thatprocess, you see that it wasn't
the money that made that.
Speaker 1 (35:00):
It just amplified it.
Speaker 3 (35:02):
And that was such an aha moment of just completely
changing the view of how to lookat the wealth and what it is.
What do you want it to do for?
Speaker 1 (35:14):
you?
Yeah, I think it's fascinating.
You see someone today, but isit the money or was it just who
they were all along right?
So I think just theamplification is just
interesting to know.
Speaker 3 (35:23):
Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (35:25):
I think that may have been something that was a
desire all along.
Again, that's a core to who youare from the beginning.
You've just been able toamplify it as you're able to
feel like you have the abilityto do more, and that's really
what we want to get to is money.
Doesn't change you.
Speaker 3 (35:43):
It just really highlights who you are and I
would bet that, looking back,even if you couldn't afford to
give money, I bet when money wastight, you gave of your time
and of what you could in termsof where you added value, and I
think that's.
We give what we can andsometimes it's at different
stages and different things atdifferent stages of life, but if
(36:06):
we're somebody that wants togive, we're going to find a way
to give, even if it's notmonetarily.
Speaker 1 (36:10):
So now, your approach to retirement planning goes
well beyond the numbers as we'vebeen established here.
I came into this thinking it'sabout what my return on
investment in my portfolio isgoing to be, which is, I'm sure,
is important, but you've just,throughout this conversation, in
your book, you've just shownhow much more there is to it,
(36:31):
and I really would say just whatyou bring to the table in terms
of being able to work withfolks that are absent, having
that relationship with someonelike yourselves, you wouldn't
even imagine what are someemotional aspects of retirement
that people often overlook intheir planning.
Beyond what we've talked aboutso far, what else do you see as
(36:52):
some of those emotional aspectsthat people sometimes overlook?
Speaker 3 (36:56):
Everything about financial planning is emotional
and we like to pretend like it'sjust numbers, but the truth of
the matter is it's so much more.
We are full-time therapistshalf of the time.
One of my clients just retiredlast year and this market
volatility has themunderstandably nervous.
(37:17):
But having that conversationwith them about how the fact
that we planned for this, wehave cash on hand for the next
two to three years of cash needsand we have income producing
assets that are replenishingthat cash bucket.
And we have the long-termbuckets that, yes, are
fluctuating but in good yearsare flowing that profit down.
And we have the long-termbuckets that, yes, are
fluctuating but in good yearsare flowing that profit down and
(37:37):
in bad years we're not touchingthem.
We have the ability to let thatride and knowing, being able to
kind of bring that back andknowing that the client doesn't
have to change their lifestyle,it doesn't change their ability
to retire and not run out ofmoney, it doesn't change
anything from their portfoliowhen the market's going down
like this, Gives them such apeace of mind and if you're just
(38:02):
looking at a number standpointof like, oh nope, we're just
going to put this money overhere and we're going to let it
ride and there's an emotionaltoll to that.
That is terrifying for clients,and so if we can reduce that
emotion and know that they arein place, that's a huge factor.
Speaker 2 (38:20):
Yeah, there's a lot of emotions.
I was talking to a client thispast week and the conversation
was around the client's spouseand this would be emotional even
in good times, and there's morelife changes going on so we
can't even talk about certainthings right now, and so that's
our job.
It's our job to be level headed.
I think when you're talkingabout retirement and emotions
about retirement, change can beemotional.
(38:41):
In general, I actually changeis always emotional for me and I
need time to process it, andthen when there's any extra
deviations from what's expected,it just really amplifies those
emotions.
When I work with clients, I wantthem to understand that this is
going to be the first time youretire For most people.
Some people retire more thanonce, but most people retire
(39:03):
once, and while it's the firsttime that they're going through
it, this is what we do for aliving.
We help clients manage thattransition and if they didn't
have any emotions around it,they would probably be the first
client I had ever worked withthat did not have emotions
around it.
This is our job.
Our job is to be thatlevel-headed sounding board and
(39:24):
again, we are that trustedpartner through it all.
We do really get to know ourclients that holistically, we
are there and helping themthrough.
As Kelly's mentioning it,sometimes you feel a little bit
like a therapist, but that'spart of the role.
Speaker 3 (39:39):
Another big area of emotions that clients really
seem to overlook is the idea ofretiring to something.
Retirement is so much more thanjust walking away from your
paycheck.
Your job creates a socialnetwork, a sense of purpose,
maybe a sense of accomplishment,things of that sort.
And you may live 30 plus yearsin retirement.
(40:03):
In fact nowadays that's prettycommon, so most people would say
that's a pretty long time.
In many cases it's as long asyou worked.
Where are you going to get thatsense of accomplishment, that
sense of purpose, that joy,those different things?
And there's definitely atransition period going into
retirement and keeping thatemotional aspect.
(40:25):
Unfortunately, it's notuncommon to see a little bout of
depression going intoretirement for that exact reason
.
Finding that new normal is thisall there is?
When you have a better plan ofwhat you're going to do in
retirement, that transition goesfrom that really volatile
market to that incline which iseasier to manage.
Speaker 1 (40:45):
I can imagine that most people hire a financial
advisor and come to you for thefinances to start with.
But just as you're talking, I'mwondering as you're working
with people, do you find thatthey're actually in better shape
to retire financially andpossibly less prepared to really
appreciate and anticipate whatit means to retire and no longer
(41:08):
have work or that purpose thatthey've had up until now?
Speaker 3 (41:13):
Yep, absolutely.
A lot of times it's even aconversation of do you want to
retire in the middle of winter?
I'm in the Chicagoland area.
It's pretty cold and drearyhere, so if you're somebody that
wants to be outdoors all thetime, you may not want to retire
in the middle of winter.
You may want to wait till it'ssummer and you can enjoy it and
have that transition.
Sometimes it's a matter ofgoing from working 80 hours a
(41:36):
week to nothing, but it's likehitting a brick wall.
Can we scale that and that wayyou build into that, yeah, so
this has been, for me, afascinating interview.
Speaker 1 (41:47):
I hope our audience is enjoying it, and it just goes
to show that there's so muchmore to financial planning than
simply the numbers.
The numbers are important, butthere's so much more that goes
into it.
You guys have done an excellentjob in articulating a lot of
those things.
I really have enjoyed thisconversation today.
If your readers of your bookwere to take away one message
(42:08):
from the book Intentional Legacy, what's that one lesson or that
one aha moment that you hopethat they take away?
Speaker 2 (42:16):
I think, as we've talked about this, the word I'm
actually a little cautious onthe word legacy, because I do
think it makes people thinkabout end of life, right 70s,
80s, 90s, estate planning,whatever it may be.
But we really want this to be aconsideration, something you
should think about as early as Iwould say we're 30s, like
(42:36):
that's the time you startgetting really grounded.
But the idea is a legacy.
It's not just what you leave atthe end, it's the choices along
the way, it's the values you'rebuilding.
This is something that, if wecan have meaningful conversation
and build a game plan that yes,it is intentional it really
makes a difference.
We never know how long our lifeis going to be.
(42:59):
We don't know the curve ballsthat we're going to have, but if
we can be really thoughtful, itcan make all the difference.
It can make the difference foryou, your family, the future
generations, and that the legacyit's not just dollars, it is
the values, it's the lessons,and we might as well start that
right away.
Speaker 1 (43:17):
As we start to wrap up, is there anything that I
haven't asked you that you thinkis important to this
conversation?
Speaker 2 (43:25):
I would.
Just it's that idea of okay sofinancial planning, financial
advisor again, people thinkabout their account statements
and did I beat a certain indexor how did that go?
But really, when we're beingintentional, when we're doing
comprehensive financial planning, we're not just wrapping our
arms around how much have yousaved in your 401k this year?
(43:47):
We're wrapping our lives or ourarms around our clients' whole
financial situations, oftenreally deeply, getting to know
them and their families and thatholistic advice.
There's a lot of decisions inlife and what we really like to
do is a phrase used in the bookbut really lift that quote fog
of uncertainty.
How can we live in a way thatwe're helping and partnering
(44:10):
alongside you so you can go livethe life you want to live and
you don't have to have theuncertainty of am I doing enough
?
Have I planned?
Let's make sure that we'redoing what we need to and go
enjoy, live your life.
Don't make this something thatyou dwell on more than needed.
I also like to add this hasjust been such a fun experience
for me and it's been sorewarding, just as Kelly and I
(44:33):
have deepened our relationshipas a team, really believe in
that team approach and writingthis book together.
We had a lot of fun.
We actually were supposed to beat a conference and all of a
sudden the hurricane startedhitting Florida and we had to
cancel our flight last minute.
We decided, you know what,let's go hunker down in a hotel
in Fort Worth and really putMind to Matter and work on this,
(44:56):
on this book together, on theedits that we were doing, and
Kelly quickly learned that FortWorth and Grapevine or Dallas,
they're not all one in the same.
Each area has its own flair,but I think it's important.
This is something we're reallypassionate about.
We love it.
So I just think having apassion project is great and I
think, if there's anything thatyou're passionate about, go find
(45:19):
others who share your passion,because working with others that
share your focus on excellenceand if you can be iron,
sharpening iron and bring yourminds together, you can create
something that's truly great andreally grow as a person and
grow as a team, and I think thathas been one of the most
meaningful things I've takenaway from this process.
(45:40):
And I think combined are justcare and love for our clients
and ability to make a difference.
I really hope shines throughwith our book, because this is
what we're passionate about.
This is what gets us up andgoing in the mornings Amazing.
Speaker 1 (45:56):
For someone that's with us so far, has been
listening and is excited aboutthis message and can't wait to
jump into the book.
Where can they get a copy ofthe book?
Speaker 2 (46:02):
Go to intentionallegacybookcom and
that'll take you to our page andyou can requesta copy and Kelly
and I will make sure you get acopy.
We'll reach out to you as ateam and really make sure that
we can get a copy in your hands.
Speaker 1 (46:16):
Perfect IntentionalLegacyBookcom.
Fantastic, I'm excited.
I want to get a copy.
I'm going to go there right nowand get my copy of the book.
Thank you so much for your timetoday.
I've really enjoyed theconversation and it gives me a
new appreciation of all thevalue that you bring to your
(46:37):
clients and really theimportance of being able to have
someone like yourselves, beyondthe investments, really as a
sounding board, because you'vehighlighted so many different
things that go into this and ifI didn't have you guys, who else
would I talk to about thesethings?
You definitely have a greatmessage.
I love that you put it into abook and I'm looking forward to
(46:58):
reading it.
Speaker 3 (46:59):
Thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (46:59):
Okay bye for now.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Amy Robach & T.J. Holmes present: Aubrey O’Day, Covering the Diddy Trial
Introducing… Aubrey O’Day Diddy’s former protege, television personality, platinum selling music artist, Danity Kane alum Aubrey O’Day joins veteran journalists Amy Robach and TJ Holmes to provide a unique perspective on the trial that has captivated the attention of the nation. Join them throughout the trial as they discuss, debate, and dissect every detail, every aspect of the proceedings. Aubrey will offer her opinions and expertise, as only she is qualified to do given her first-hand knowledge. From her days on Making the Band, as she emerged as the breakout star, the truth of the situation would be the opposite of the glitz and glamour. Listen throughout every minute of the trial, for this exclusive coverage. Amy Robach and TJ Holmes present Aubrey O’Day, Covering the Diddy Trial, an iHeartRadio podcast.
Good Hang with Amy Poehler
Come hang with Amy Poehler. Each week on her podcast, she'll welcome celebrities and fun people to her studio. They'll share stories about their careers, mutual friends, shared enthusiasms, and most importantly, what's been making them laugh. This podcast is not about trying to make you better or giving advice. Amy just wants to have a good time.