January 8, 2026 • 52 mins
In this episode, Mike and Angie slow everything down and begin telling the story that lives underneath their work, their marriage, and their mission. Before the breakthroughs, before the rebuilding, before Inner Wealth, there was conditioning, trauma, and survival. This conversation sets the foundation for a ten-part series by going back to childhood, early relationship dynamics, and the patterns that quietly shaped sixteen years of volatility. This isn’t about resolution yet. It’s about truth, context, and understanding what had to break before anything could be rebuilt.
Key Takeaways
1. The Relationship Was Built on Unconscious Survival
Both Mike and Angie entered the relationship carrying unexamined trauma that shaped how they loved, fought, and stayed.
2. Childhood Conditioning Never Stays in the Past
What isn’t healed early gets reenacted later, especially inside intimate partnerships.
3. Toxic Patterns Can Look Like Love
Control, volatility, fixing, and emotional intensity often masquerade as connection when safety is missing.
4. The Collapse Was Inevitable — and Necessary
The unraveling wasn’t failure. It was the interruption that made healing possible.
5. Awareness Is the First Real Shift
Nothing changed until responsibility replaced blame and curiosity replaced defense.
Notable Quotes
- “We officially begin today, but that we introduced last week, talking about our life together, our collapse, our rebirth, the cleanup, the mess.”
- “That toxicity kept building over the course of sixteen years.”
- “We just carry that forward. It’s all conditioning and programming.”
- “It felt like my entire life was being ripped away from me. I just wanted to die.”
- “It’s not Mike against Angie anymore. It’s Mike and Angie against the problem.”
Call to Action
🔥 This Is Only the Beginning.
This episode lays the groundwork for a ten-part journey through collapse, repair, and conscious rebuilding.
📘 Inner World, Outer World — Available Now on Amazon
A guide to understanding how the inner world shapes the outer life. Order yours here!
👥 Message Mike or Angie Directly
mike@innerwealthglobal.com angie@innerwealthglobal.com
Music Credit: "What's Left of Me" by Wes Hoffman & Friends
My Social Media:
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/mikekitko
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/mike_kitko
Tiktok: https://www.tiktok.com/@mikekitko
Subscribe to my YouTube: / @mikekitko
Mike Kitko is an executive self-mastery coach, speaker and author. He found external success through powerful titles, incomes, and material possessions. He ultimately fell into depression, toxic abuse of alcohol, and the near collapse of his family before he began a journey of internal happiness and success.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_00 (00:24):
Welcome to the Inner Wealth Podcast where we learn
and choose to live inspired eachand every day.
Hey guys, welcome back to partone in a 10-part series that we
began.
Uh we well, we officially begintoday, but that we introduced
(00:45):
last week, talking about our ourlife together, our lives, our
life together, our uh ourcollapse, our rebirth, the
cleanup, the mess, the cleaningup the mess that we made, and
kind of like walking throughsome of the healing that we went
through and sharing with youguys some of the healing
(01:08):
techniques and some of thethings that that we we utilized
and and we um I guess we doveinto in this in this healing
journey to really live a morepowerful life.
And uh I'm here with my bride.
Um she's here next to me.
If you're just listening, youcan't yeah, there you go.
SPEAKER_02 (01:27):
I'm here.
SPEAKER_00 (01:28):
If you if you're listening, you can't see her,
but if you're watching YouTube,you can.
And listen, uh, I would love itif you are just checking us out,
if you're just finding this, Iwould love if you uh if you
subscribed, if you liked, if youshared this podcast, if you uh,
you know, if you get any valueout of it.
But uh over the next 10 weeks,we're gonna be telling a very
(01:49):
powerful story.
And the way I framed it lastweek is I I am a public speaker,
I'm a I'm a coach, a publishedauthor, a speaker.
And oftentimes when I'm up onstage, I'm telling the story
about our life.
And when uh after the speakingevent, there's people, mainly
women, that corner her and say,I want to hear it from your
(02:11):
perspective.
So we're we're working um andthe intention and we'll work
what we're working on is makingsure Angie's voice is heard
equally to mine.
And I know I'm introducing thisa lot and I'm gonna turn it over
to her.
But the point is, is we wanna wewant to get our story in the
world and start this a morepowerful collaboration because
Angie has a lot to offer thathas been buried and surfaces
(02:35):
from time to time, but we're nowwe're we're diving in and we're
exposing it.
SPEAKER_01 (02:39):
Yeah, and we've you know we've met so many couples
over the years who'veexperienced situations quite
similar to ours and who haven'tbeen able to navigate through
this in a in a way to get themto the other side.
So we're just hoping that uh bysharing our story, we can
possibly help someone elsenavigate this journey together.
SPEAKER_00 (03:00):
And I'm sure we'll get into some of this later in a
later episode in a uh later inthis series.
But one of the things that Ilove most about this is every
time we've done a podcastepisode together, Angie, Angie's
voice has has strengthened.
She's become more confident,more courageous, showed up more.
(03:21):
And I love seeing the lightshine in you.
And I love seeing how you arebecoming better every time you
you you jump on here and youjust share who you are.
And that lights me up.
And that's pretty opposite ofhow I showed up for the first 16
years in our marriage.
And that's why we'll tell thatstory.
SPEAKER_01 (03:40):
Yeah, I'm trying.
It's uh it's it's still a littleawkward, but yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (03:44):
What's awkward about it?
SPEAKER_01 (03:46):
It's just everything, the camera, and I
don't know, just hearing, I hatehearing my voice.
Mike loves listening to hisvoice.
And I'm personally not a fan.
I I critique the hell out of it.
I talk too fast, I laugh tooloud.
I'm all I'm just I am my ownworst enemy.
SPEAKER_00 (04:03):
Yeah, so just to clarify, she doesn't like
hearing her voice or mine.
SPEAKER_01 (04:07):
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, I love hearing your voice.
It's just over and over.
SPEAKER_00 (04:13):
Same story, same stuff over and over and over.
Thought she has the life of Mikeand Angie.
But uh listen, today I thinkwhat we're gonna focus on today
is since this is part one, we'regonna start at the beginning.
And what we need to set, whatwe're gonna do is we're gonna
set the foundation for the restof the series where we really
talk about Angie's childhood,the environment that she grew up
(04:37):
in, because that had a lot to dowith what happened in in our
lives.
My childhood environment, whichhad a whole lot to do with what
happened in our lives, how howwe immediately got off to a
very, very toxic start in ourrelationship.
And that toxicity kept buildingover the course of 16 years.
(04:58):
So, and then we're we're notgonna we're not gonna go a whole
lot into the future this yearwith this episode, but we're
really gonna set the stage andtell the story of who what was
the past of Mike and Angie andwhat did it look like before our
collapse in 2016.
SPEAKER_01 (05:14):
There's no way we're gonna get through just the
childhood thing in one episode.
This is not gonna make itthrough 10.
It's gonna be longer than thatif the if we're gonna start from
from the childhood thing,because that's it might be a
longer, longer episode.
SPEAKER_00 (05:26):
So, but we'll we'll go it we'll go until the story's
told.
And a longer story, a longerepisode is okay too.
So, Angie, yes, let's start withyou.
Yeah, so I often talk about whenI'm up on stage, I talk about me
and I talk about the thechildhood, the environment that
created, you know, this theshadows that were in my life.
(05:47):
But the the story that you haveto share about your childhood is
even more powerful and evenmore, even more painful.
So it's not that not to it's acomparison, but really it is
important for you to set thetone in and stage and and not
exaggerate, but to really tellthe truth of where where you
came from.
SPEAKER_01 (06:06):
Yeah, um, I mean, I I was born to an impoverished
family in in northern Virginia,right outside of DC, Alexandria.
And um, my my mom was a16-year-old runaway, met my dad,
and they had me when she was 19,he was 21, and pretty much just
dumped me off at my grandma'sright away.
It was just their theirrelationship was toxic.
(06:28):
Um, they got divorced when I wastwo, and again, dumped off at my
grandma's, who miss her everyday.
She was my my rock, my angel.
Um, and just yeah, just lifegrowing up was, you know, I
loved my grandma, but ourentire, like it was, we were
your typical loud Irish drinkingfamily.
(06:50):
Our our little apartment was wasopen to every drunk in the city.
Um my dad had a revolving groupof women for the longest time,
and then they found the one whowould eventually become my
stepmom.
Um, my mom passed away when Iwas six years old.
So that was kind of a kind of atough thing.
(07:11):
And then my found my grandmotherdead of suicide just a year and
a half or so later.
Just chat and my dad.
SPEAKER_00 (07:18):
You found her.
SPEAKER_01 (07:19):
Yeah, they sent, yeah, it was she wasn't
responding to anyone's calls orletters because after my mom
died, she just shut herself downcompletely.
And um, we were sending herletters and we were knocking on
her door and calling, and shenever answered.
So they decided one day to do awellness check, and my they sent
me in.
Uh, so she had she had wasliterally laying on the floor
(07:39):
with a bottle of empty bottle ofvodka, and she was playing a
game of Yahtzee by herself.
That's how I found her.
And all of my letters that I hadwrote her were all they were the
only letters that were open ofall the letters that our family
sent.
So that's kind of stuck with me.
Uh, but yeah, my dad was aheroin addict.
He was uh you know, I saw himget stabbed when I was super
young.
(07:59):
I we saw him try to rob a cabdriver.
I mean, we it was just crazy.
I yeah, I mean, I was sexuallyassaulted at a very young age by
my my dad's friends, my father.
I mean, it was just as crazy.
SPEAKER_00 (08:13):
And they what happened when they found out
about it?
When when when your when yourdad and stepmom found out about
it, what found out about what?
The the when when when it wasunderstood about the septual
assault.
Yeah, no, that was when I whatwas the response?
SPEAKER_01 (08:28):
That my dad was part of it.
Yeah, yeah.
No, my dad's and from hisfriends were part of it.
Like he'd have have his buddiesover.
I remember we were we would wemoved all over the place.
I think one year we moved houseslike six or seven times.
I was in different schooldistricts all year long.
I don't think I ever stayed at aschool more than half a year.
(08:49):
Um, no, but my dad's friends,you know, we would he we would
make us sit on their laps andthey would touch us.
And, you know, first it startedas me.
And then I later on there wereother children involved.
That's not my story to tell.
Uh, so I'll just talk for me.
And um, you know, they'd havetheir drug dealers over and just
pretty much just had their waywith us.
But I think you're talking aboutthe part where when I got raped
(09:11):
when I was 13, I was raped whenI was 13, and when I told my
stepmother, and she just calledme a stupid slut, and it was my
fault.
SPEAKER_00 (09:20):
It was your fault.
That was the part that it wasyour fault.
That's the that's theenvironment, you know, the
wicked stepmother and and youknow, uh with stepsisters that
got preferential treatment.
SPEAKER_01 (09:31):
Yeah, yeah.
And you know, there were wewent, we were lived in and out
of flop houses and crack housesand wherever we could stay for
periodic times.
And it was one whole summer wehad no running water, no
electricity, we had no food.
We we would go and like we wouldliterally go to the store.
And I remember they had the bulkfood bins.
I think it was safely our giantfood, and we would go and just
(09:53):
steal cookies just to getsomething to eat.
And and my stepsister had a lot,you know, she and I will speak
on that because she she was thereason we ate a lot of days
because she would go and stealfood for us.
We go and knock on neighbors'doors and ask to borrow, borrow
hot dogs.
That's the one I remember, youknow, stealing toilet paper and
going and getting water from thegrocery from the gas station to
(10:13):
flush the toilet once a day.
It was, yeah, it was crazy.
So I um I finally left.
I I I got the the guts and upand I was like, this is not.
I always knew though that thisis that was not the life that I
sure was destined for.
Like that was not where I sawmyself.
Like I always envisioned thefamily and the house.
(10:34):
And I had like for some reason,I had the ability to make
friends with the kids who hadmoney, which was really odd
because I was, you know, alwayswearing hand-me-down clothes and
stuff.
But I always never felt lessthan around those people who had
money and having sleepovers andsingle family homes.
And I was like, oh, this is whatI want.
And I remember planting thatseed very young.
(10:56):
So yeah, I left home when I was14, got emancipated when I was
16, and we'll end that storythere because that goes into a
whole other kind of story.
SPEAKER_00 (11:06):
And and and I think there's there's another cool
part that the on the brighterside is she had a wealthy aunt,
and every once in a while she'dgo over a wealthy aunt's house
and she would lay in her her bedin their down comforter and and
you know, drive drive nice cars.
And Angie's like, this will bemine.
SPEAKER_01 (11:24):
Yeah, no, yeah.
So I definitely credit Di with aa lot of of my drive and
ambition to get out of thatbecause we would, we would stay
at her house, and she lived inin Bethesda, Maryland, and
always had a beautiful condo anda nice convertible.
And we would lay there in herbed with our big down comforter
and her fancy lotion.
(11:46):
And we, oh yes, 100%.
I had, and and she also taughtme to speak well.
So I had to drop out of schoolin ninth grade when I left home.
But I always literacy was alwaysvery important to me.
So I remember Guy alwayscorrecting our language, and I
really credit her for why I'msuch a grammar Nazi now.
SPEAKER_00 (12:04):
You are a grammar Nazi too, for sure.
If you, if you ever, if Angieever sees your writing and there
is an error, she is judging you.
I just want you to know she isjudging you.
SPEAKER_01 (12:16):
I remember our poor kids giving me a paper to read
in like fifth grade.
SPEAKER_00 (12:19):
I'm like, God damn it, I see 15 errors right there,
but I'm not gonna say if shesees a mistake that you make in
your writing, she she is judgingyou actively.
And uh when you you always knew,just to reiterate this, you
always knew that that wasn't thelife that you were always gonna
live.
SPEAKER_01 (12:38):
Yeah, and and my my aunt I and these were my
stepmother's sisters, and theythey they knew too, which is
great.
Like hearing that as an adult,and you heard you you've you've
heard them say that, like theyalways knew that I was
different, and I would be theone that got out.
And I am the only one out of thethe myself and my stepsister and
half sister that got out.
SPEAKER_00 (12:58):
Now you had two sisters, or you have two
sisters, and they they are stillkind of living in somewhat kind
of the one sisters in jail.
Those circumstances, but I'mtalking about the you know,
being still being around the theheroin addiction and you know,
whatever.
SPEAKER_01 (13:15):
It's they they're they're still they're still kind
of trying to they're stilladmired in that that poverty
stricken lifestyle, notnecessarily you know, there's
different circumstances to eachof them, but they're still in
that, and I hate to use thisphrase, but I'm going to in that
white trash trailer parklifestyle.
Like that's where they are.
SPEAKER_00 (13:31):
Yeah.
And uh and and I mean, yourolder sister, uh, I we know her,
and we just kind of hung outwith her for the first time in a
long time, and and she's veryenvious of what we have and what
we've built.
And uh, and she it kind ofinspired her a little bit in
some way.
So it was really cool to sharethat with her.
SPEAKER_01 (13:48):
And she's very proud of me, and she verbalizes that
when you know we don't speakoften, we have a bit of an
issue, we've tried to repair ourrelationship, but um it just
doesn't seem to work very well.
But she she has definitely andshe is she's very proud of what
we've built.
SPEAKER_00 (14:03):
Yeah, and and it's all comes through telling our
story, and that's why we'redoing stuff like this is our
story inspires people, andhopefully, uh you know, you can
we can always change ourcircumstances.
Yeah.
And that sets the stage for umfor me, I guess.
Um, I'm six years older thanAngie.
I grew up in Baltimore,Maryland, so not far from
Northern Virginia.
(14:23):
What is it, 50 miles, 60 miles,something like that?
SPEAKER_01 (14:26):
95 traffic.
SPEAKER_00 (14:27):
Yeah, well, hours.
But the point being is we didn'tgrow up very far from each other
um in proximity and geographicalproximity, but um in in years
for sure.
So uh my father was uh 19 my 19years older than uh than my mom.
And I I I like to think my dadlooked at my mom and she he's
(14:51):
20, he's like, that's a fineyoung thing.
She's one, and it is disgusting.
But we're six years apart.
So so you know, when when I was20, she was still a minor,
right?
But uh but that's not when wemet.
But uh we met when I was uh 27and she was 21.
So that's how we got our start.
But um my my childhood was notpoverty stricken.
(15:12):
Uh it was lower middle class, itwas blue-collar union steel
worker, uh, a little town in atown, an area, uh location, I
guess, community called Cantonin Baltimore.
Today it's more upscale.
It's been uh centrified.
SPEAKER_01 (15:31):
It's been centrified.
SPEAKER_00 (15:33):
And you know, the house that I grew up in, we we
actually got to go back into thehouse uh when we visited
Baltimore.
A lady invited us in into mychildhood house and it looks
nothing like it.
But uh it was very much a asmall, dusty, dirty, cluttered
Baltimore row house, shotgunstyle.
So when you you stood at thefront door, you could see all
(15:55):
the way through the back.
And uh there were at times therewere three of us boys, uh me and
I had two older brothers, uh, mymother, my father, and uh we me
and my brothers shared one smallbedroom.
Um Angie, Angie's very familiarwith my childhood at home, but
it was a small bedroom withthree beds in there.
Uh, and you know, it there was alot of um my father was the way
(16:18):
he approached us, he said, boy,if you ever think that you're
right and I'm wrong, let's godown to park, because there was
a park nearby.
And he said, and we'll throwdown, and whoever wins, they're
right.
So, and that's kind of how wesolve problems in the house.
And that's how my brother solvedproblems.
So it was pretty typical thatthey'd be washed, one one
brother would be washing dishes,the other be drying, and before
(16:40):
you know it, they're just on theground and they're just throwing
fists and they're just they'rejust hammering each other.
And uh, I know my my brother andmy father got into a physical
altercation before, and my myfather didn't he uh my brother
only challenged my dad once.
So after that, you know, therewas no more physical
altercations between my dad andus, except for except for
punishments.
(17:01):
Getting getting your your yourass whooped.
That was a pretty uh prettycommon thing.
But uh yeah, lower middle class,blue collar, union of steel
worker, gotta work hard.
Uh money is hard to make.
Rich people are greedy, richpeople are evil.
Um, you'll never have enough.
Um, we're we're made we're madeto struggle.
(17:23):
Um this this family works, youknow, we're hard workers and and
you you gotta work for the man,and you you know, union is the
only way to freaking preserveyour safety and security, and
really this lower middle classpoverty mindset and approach to
life, where if if anyone hasmoney, they obviously got it in
(17:45):
a very, very uh slimy way.
And I remember going down to myAunt Marge's house, uh loving
Aunt Marge, um deceased now, butuh I remember going down to my
Aunt Marge's house, and AuntMarge and my Uncle Chuck had
money, and there was a Christmastree in the house, a little
Christmas tree, and there werethere were b bills currency on
(18:09):
on the tree, like littleornaments.
And my my my Aunt Marge was allexcited.
She's like, go grab a bill, andit was all for all the kids.
I get emotional telling thestory.
And we go over and you you'dpluck a bill off the off the
tree, and sometimes it was ahundred, and sometimes it was a
50, and sometimes if it was a20, and and if it was too low,
she'd say, get another one.
(18:29):
And and you always left, youknow, at Christmas time.
Ah, I get emotional.
You always left Aunt Marge's andUncle Chuck's with a little bit
of money.
But the point being is the wholeway home, my parents would talk
shit about Aunt Marge and UncleChuck about flaunting wealth and
you know, really, really uh umleading with their money.
And and really they didn't theydidn't.
(18:51):
They didn't.
They were just generous, theywere just very generous and they
were very loving and they theythey were well off.
But the point being is if youhad money, you were there was
something wrong with you.
And and they demonized anybodywith money.
My parents did the best theycould.
Angie's parents did the bestthey could.
I think it's important to setthe the the stage there.
These aren't bad people.
(19:12):
They were just we're alloperating at the highest level
of consciousness that wepossibly can.
And and those people, just likeAngie and I for most of our
lives, we just weren't operatingat a very high level of
consciousness.
So this is no judgment, this wasno shame, this is no guilt, this
is no, this is no blame, this isjust this is this is what we
this was how we lived.
This was how we lived.
SPEAKER_01 (19:33):
Yeah, and I think that with what you just said, I
think one of the the biggesthealing points for me, now I'm
not jumping ahead with this, butis when I finally sat down and
thought about wow, what did mydad and what did my stepmom have
to endure in their childhoodthat made them that turned them
into those people that did that?
Like what did when I actuallythought, like, wow, was my
(19:56):
stepmom, she must have beensexually abused.
I mean, the physical.
The mentally emotional abuse sheput me through.
Like I know she learned thatfrom somewhere because we only
do what we're taught.
Yeah.
For sure.
And majority of the time.
SPEAKER_00 (20:10):
And that's why I spanked my girls.
SPEAKER_01 (20:11):
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (20:12):
Right.
I love them very much, but Iwould hurt them because I that
was the way I was taught.
And I just thought that wasnatural and normal.
SPEAKER_01 (20:17):
And we also grew up in the generation where getting
our asses whooped with this withthe wooden spoon was part of,
was just a part of that.
That's made us made us tougher.
SPEAKER_00 (20:26):
Yeah.
So to to finish out, you know,that that's the kind of the
environment that we grew up in.
Oh, and by the way, we were wewere raised in a very uh strict
Catholic environment where youwent to church and you look
perfect, then you came home andand the N-word was thrown around
all the time, and you know, andand just it it was just it it
was there was opposing sides,you know, of and I'll put my
(20:49):
hand in front of Angie, butopposing sides to what was shown
and what was happening, right?
Everybody thought the Kit Coshad this thing, this loving
family going on.
And meanwhile, there's freakingviolence and there's blame and
all kind of and and and I don'tknow.
It's just I I remember seeing mymy uh my mother got off the
(21:10):
phone and she obviously somebodycalled her about my brother, and
then you know, she came in witha a butter knife.
My brother was sleeping on acouch, and she just started
hitting them with the butterknife and yelling at him, and
and that was when I was likethree or four.
Like I remember that vividly.
And and it's just I was growingup in that environment that was
chaotic, that was that wasviolent, that was volatile, you
(21:31):
know, that it it was it it's atthe root of the foundation.
Uh my father was working all thetime, uh, and my mother was uh
pharmaceutically addicted.
She was uh not a veryaffectionate woman, affectionate
mom in terms of uh giving,giving love, giving physical
(21:54):
love, or you know, giving hugsor or embracing.
She was very physically distant,she was very emotionally
distant.
And a lot of times when I wentto school, she was laying in her
bed, and you know, I had to,from a very young age, most
times I had to make my breakfastand pack my lunch.
And it was the latchkey kidgeneration, but I did have a mom
there, she was there, but shewas just absent because she was
(22:15):
pharmaceutically addicted, andthat'll that'll come back up
here in in a little bit.
So my my father was my bestfriend uh for the first 10 years
of my life.
And he after we reconciled, uh,he became my best friend again.
And he actually became, youknow, the this her dad, her real
(22:35):
dad in the world.
But uh when my when I was 10, mybrother had a daughter.
And um when she was born, myfather completely started
ignoring me.
And my mother said that was hispattern.
He always paid attention to thebaby, and when there was a new
baby, the old baby got gotignored and got shunned and got
pushed away.
(22:56):
It was no longer that thatimportant or relevant in in his
life.
And that kind of set out set acourse of like abandonment,
right?
Where my I didn't have a mom.
She was physically, mentally,emotionally distant.
And at this point, I didn't havea dad.
So I felt like I had nobody inthe world.
And uh I I I took care ofmyself.
I it was all likeself-preservation.
That that's really what it camedown to.
(23:16):
And that's gonna, again, allthis stuff we're just setting
the stage.
All this is gonna come back uplater.
All right.
Um you're ready to you're readyto fast forward.
SPEAKER_01 (23:26):
Yeah, yeah.
I I I I gave I gave a clip thoseversion.
I didn't know you were gonna godown.
SPEAKER_00 (23:31):
I think I think it's important that we tell that we
tell the story.
So feel free to expand.
SPEAKER_01 (23:35):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (23:35):
Now I I got out of high school and I joined the
Marine Corps.
Angie got uh emancipated, gotengaged.
Yep, right?
SPEAKER_01 (23:46):
Yep, got engaged.
Um 17, I believe, was been withhim.
I we got together when I I waswith him when I left home at 14.
And you know, to this day, Ivery grateful that I had a place
to stay because yeah, you know,his family helped take care of
me.
And again, there we're stillvery good friends to this day.
(24:07):
And um emancipated, took, wasworking, and I started working
when I was very young.
I started working at 15.
And um, actually, that's how Ithe emancipation even came about
because I was working at alittle cafe in Bethesda,
Maryland, on Old Georgetown Roadcalled uh Sutton Place Gourmet.
There was a gentleman who wouldcome in every day and get the
same, same meal cheesebread andan espresso.
(24:30):
And one day he just asked me,why I was not in school.
And well, one of the things whenI left home was what I left out
was when my mom passed away.
She worked for the Department ofDefense.
She was a secretary uh there.
And so she left behind a I I wasI was receiving government
pension.
And um, so I got her socialsecurity and her government
pension, and my dad and stepmomused all that money for drugs.
(24:53):
And um I remember them chasingthe mailman down on the first of
the month.
That was always just so bizarre.
And um, anyway, so he asked meand I just spilled the whole
story to him and just don't evenknow why.
I mean, I do know why, but toldhim the whole story.
And the next day he came in, heslid a letter across the
counter, and it was from Milesand Stockbridge lawyers in
(25:15):
Rockville, Maryland, offering torepresent me pro bono in a case
of emancipation so that I couldget away from my father.
And then I would I became wouldbecome a ward of the state of
Maryland, and they would beresponsible for my finances
until I turned 18.
And it was a godsend.
And I will never forget that dayin court.
I just felt like my dad hadtaken so much from me that I was
(25:39):
just, I felt so man, that was agreat moment.
Him and my yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (25:45):
And and that that man, I'm not gonna mention his
name because you didn't, but uhtry we're trying to protect
folks.
SPEAKER_01 (25:52):
Jim, oh James, Jimmy?
Jimmy.
Oh, James, oh, James J.
Demma, attorney at law.
SPEAKER_00 (25:57):
He's uh Jimmy love you, but uh anyway, uh that's
important.
And Jimmy also helped her getinto college.
SPEAKER_01 (26:04):
Yes, so yep.
SPEAKER_00 (26:06):
She had a ninth grade education, she's a ninth
grade dropout, and she startedtaking college classes.
Okay, that's gonna come up latertoo, because there was some
self-worth issues and someconfidence issues, right?
That that that filtered in thestory.
Uh I graduated high school.
I went to work for uh a coupleengineering companies as a
draftsman.
I ultimately joined the UnitedStates Marine Corps, took
(26:27):
college classes all the waythrough through the Marine
Corps.
And when I graduated, or when Iwhen I uh when I got out of the
Marine Corps, I had two classesleft.
I finished my classes, and thenI decided to burn a little GI
Bill.
And when I when I I took twoclasses, and that was biology
and abnormal psychology 101.
And guess where Angie and I met?
SPEAKER_01 (26:50):
Abnormal Psychology 101.
SPEAKER_00 (26:53):
Abnormal Psychology, and that is like one of the best
parts of our story.
We met, and it was me and abunch of kids in this class.
I was the old man, and I keptasking everybody, hey, who wants
to go out and have a drink afterclass?
And everybody would tell me,like, fuck off, old man.
Not quite like that, but butthey they they really didn't
they they didn't really want togo out and hang out with the old
(27:15):
man, even though I was 27 andthey were freaking punks.
SPEAKER_01 (27:17):
But well, I was part of that too, and my ex-fiance
was, you guys are literally twoweeks apart.
He's just he's he's saying yeah,yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (27:25):
But uh Angie and I were part of some project teams
together.
So I had her phone number, shehad my phone number.
We we talked on the phone acouple times strictly about the
project.
There was no, there was reallyno interest there.
But then after after the thethis the semester ended and the
class ended, Angie, Angie waswas going out for drinks with
(27:48):
was I thought was her friends,but she invited me and I said,
Yeah, I'd love to come.
And it was me, her, and herfiance.
And we went out for a drink.
And at the end of the night,there was no more fiance.
SPEAKER_01 (28:00):
Yeah, there was uh yeah, he and I got into a a
conflict that was definitelyjust the just the the the
culmination of years and yearsand years of that toxic
relationship.
Yeah, and I walked away and my Iasked him to take me to my
friend Dorothy's house.
Dorothy was not home, so I wentback to Mike's apartment, and
that was that.
SPEAKER_00 (28:19):
That was that.
So and she never left.
We we did have a separation, wewere separated in 2014 for a few
weeks for about five weeks.
But besides that, she's we'vebeen together ever since.
Um fast forward, we we uh boughta car together, we bought a
house together, we got pregnant,and that all happened within two
(28:43):
years.
Within two years, it movedreally, really quickly.
We got married.
SPEAKER_01 (28:46):
Yeah, because that that happened.
So December 11th, 1999 was theday we went out, and then we
found out we were pregnant withour daughter, Katie, uh, just a
few days before 9-11.
So it went, yeah, it was fast,it was real fast.
SPEAKER_00 (29:00):
It it it all and and it was surreal for me, and it
just kept it it it was movingtoo quickly for sure, but I
didn't know what to do about it,and I didn't know how to
navigate it.
But it it it all just kept it itit all just seemed like the the
right next step, but maybe notthe correct next step.
SPEAKER_01 (29:17):
Yeah, it I and I can I can definitely look back now
and recognize that same feeling.
Like it doesn't feel like uhthis is what we're this is this
is what it's like we were beingpushed into it.
Like it was just like someonewas guiding us.
SPEAKER_00 (29:30):
I think we were and I think we I think we were.
I think we were being guided.
SPEAKER_01 (29:34):
Yeah, so yeah, yeah, definitely.
And yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (29:38):
Yeah, and and it all moves so quickly.
And and this is where, you know,but but look, our our our
relationship started on a barstool.
Okay, it started with a lot of alot of alcohol, a lot of
blackouts, a lot of drunkennights, a lot of arguing, a lot
of threats, and game calling andplaying and yes, oh, and and
(30:03):
threats and belittling and andme telling you how worthless you
were, and and me trying todevalue you, and me telling you
that you were nobody else wantedyou, and nobody else would have
you.
And it was just man, it was justwe were just horrible.
We were we were not very goodpeople.
We had we had a lot of fun whenwe were drinking, but when
(30:25):
things, when it wasn't about thedrinking, then all the all the
toxicity showed up, and it wasjust it it was physically,
mentally, emotionally abusive.
Very, very abusive.
SPEAKER_01 (30:38):
I just took what I had in my childhood and just
carried it over into both ofboth of my long-term
relationships.
I was the same with with my ex.
It was very toxic.
There was drug use and there wasfighting, there was physical
altercations, there was so muchemotional and mental abuse.
I mean, and then I just justrepeated the pattern with you,
and you were just repeating thepatterns that you saw.
SPEAKER_00 (31:00):
And that and that's why setting the foundation of
the of the childhoods, it's alljust conditioning and
programming.
We just carried that forward.
I saw my parents argue all thetime, especially about money.
So we argued all the time,especially about money.
We just and and I saw my motherbeing a nag to my dad and always
like absolutely impossible toplease.
(31:23):
And I married someone who atthat time was impossible to
please.
The target constantly moved, andand it was like I was always
trying to hit the target, but Icouldn't.
And I I was I I used to get sofrustrated because the target
kept moving and I was trying sohard to hit the freaking target.
But what I realized I was nevergoing to hit the target because
a moving target is is uh it's atrauma, it's a trauma response.
SPEAKER_01 (31:44):
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (31:45):
That's it.
It was a trauma response.
SPEAKER_01 (31:47):
Because I even yeah, there was nothing you could hit
because it's always it's like itit was how far can I push?
SPEAKER_00 (31:54):
How far can I, you know, how what it was here's
here's my here's my my take now.
How far can I push him tofinally prove that he's gonna
leave me?
SPEAKER_01 (32:08):
Yeah, yeah.
And and that's what I saw withmy dad and stepmom.
We were constantly, they wereconstantly leaving each other
and packing the kid, packing usup in the car and going.
And but it yeah, it was it wasconstant.
It was there was always startsof divorce.
So was and that was then uh Ibrought that forward.
SPEAKER_00 (32:27):
We both did.
We both did.
This isn't this isn't an angi,uh Angie Bad Mike group.
SPEAKER_01 (32:31):
All the same things pretty much.
SPEAKER_00 (32:33):
Both of us the the the the problem solver in me,
when she would talk about aproblem, I would try to solve
the problem, and trying to solvethe problem pissed her off, and
she just created anotherproblem.
And then when I tried to solvethat one, the target just kept
moving, and it was like I I Ididn't know what to do because
there was there was no winning.
But again, that's the traumaresponse.
(32:54):
But the the fixer in me wascodependence in me.
It was deep codependence.
That was my pat my father'spatterns playing out, trying to
trying to fix my mom, trying tobe the healer and the savior of
my mom.
And that's why it was so that'swhy it's so important to
understand our childhoodtraumas.
We were just emulating thebehavior that was modeled for
us.
So we moved out to uh somethingreally cool happened.
(33:16):
And he and I, it was right afterEaster of 2002, and when we had
our when Katie was a couplemonths old, and we had just had
holiday season and we went to uhmy my parents' house, we went to
her aunt's house, we went to seeher dad and her stepmom.
And that day was miserablebecause all we did was travel
and we didn't really get toenjoy Easter.
(33:38):
And Angie said, you know,wouldn't it be cool if we just
moved away and we just focused,moved somewhere far away, and we
just focused on our littlefamily?
And I said, you know what?
That sounds wonderful.
That would be wonderful.
And a couple days later, I gotcalled into a conference room at
work, and they told all hundredof us that they were closing the
operation and moving, uh, goingto invite a couple of us to move
(33:59):
it back to Beaverden, Oregon,back to home campus.
And I was one of five that wereinvited.
Ultimately, three of us made thetrip, but I was one of five
invited, and I think Angie said,you know, she planted that seed,
and that is the manifestationprocess.
That's the creation process,right?
And we'll talk about thecreation process at some point,
but it's a wonderful, beautifulstory.
(34:21):
But that set the stage for thenext, you know, bunch of years
because we spent 10 years inPortland, Oregon, increasing in
volatility, in increasing indrama, increasing in pain.
And then we we moved to where wewere trying to escape the pain
that we were feeling by movingto the the the Beaverdon,
(34:41):
Oregon.
And then we we uh we did thesame thing in 2013 and we moved
right outside of St.
Louis, Missouri and St.
Charles, Missouri.
SPEAKER_01 (34:49):
Yep, and problems came with that.
SPEAKER_00 (34:50):
And all the problems, because no matter
where you go, there you are.
And uh our lives were full ofwhen I mentioned my mom was
physically, mentally,emotionally unavailable, and uh
me having the abandonmentissues, those all just kept
coming to surface because I Imarried a woman that became
pharmaceutically addicted, wasphysical, mentally, emotionally
(35:12):
uh uh uh distant.
Uh I was always trying to chaseher because I was afraid of
being abandoned.
She was playing out of hershadows, I was playing out of my
shadows.
I we beat the shit out of eachother.
Our daughters were raised in acompletely volatile, toxic uh
environment where threats,divorce, seeing pills get pulled
(35:36):
out of mouths, having beersdumped over each other because
we were so drunk.
Well, no, her dumping beers overme because I was so drunk.
SPEAKER_01 (35:44):
Yeah, being in and out of rehab, in and out in and
out of psychiatric facilities.
Yeah, this it was arrests.
SPEAKER_02 (35:53):
Arrests.
SPEAKER_01 (35:54):
Um I I was on so many pharmaceuticals, I had no
idea what I was doing.
I mean, and it's it's reallygross.
And these were all prescribed.
I just want to be very clear.
I thought I was a better drugaddict than my father because I
got my pills, I got my drugslegally.
But there were doctors out thereway over prescribing, and I was,
I uh unfortunately fell victimto that.
(36:16):
And I hate to use word victim,but that's just you know how
what it is.
I take responsibility forputting them in my mouth.
But um, yeah, and it just justcompletely unavailable.
Like all I I was just living tonumb, love living to be numb.
But I think that so thosepatterns repeated.
And I think that the he as hegrew as Mike climbed the
(36:38):
corporate ladder and startedmaking more money and making
more money.
I was always to me like the thegoal to reach was making six
figures.
So it was like, as long as thathappens, we're okay.
And everything looked great onFacebook, and we would go to
Mexico every year, and it wouldbe posted on social media, and
we had a boat and we had nicecars and we had a nice house.
(37:01):
So I put I I remember putting,you know, putting on this front
that everything was perfect, butbehind closed doors, just like
what you said earlier, it was itwas chaos and toxic and just
miserable.
SPEAKER_00 (37:14):
Yeah, and there was infidelity.
We're not gonna get into thatthe stories, but there was
infidelity, there was lots ofabuse, there was lots of
manipulation, control, guilt andshame.
And I I I I learned this from myown life, right?
Guilt, shame, anger, threats,and blame, they're all weapons
of the weak.
Yeah.
So that's what you use whenyou're when you're weak, when
(37:35):
you're when you're not, youknow, spiritually strong in
terms of not religion, notreligious strong, but
spiritually strong in your inyour mental emotional pattern
with makeup, right?
And when there's when you'reoperating from your trauma.
But the point being, I and hehit, I was, I was riding the
corporate ladder.
It was always about the nextstep, the next title, the next
raise, the next, the nextvacation, the next vacation, or
(37:59):
the next vacation, the nextwhatever, you know, the next
role.
And no matter how much we had,it wasn't enough.
And I just kept pushing and Ikept getting bigger and bigger
and bigger, and I kept drinkingmore and more and more.
And Angie kept becoming more andmore distant.
And we there there wasinfidelity and there was a
separation.
And then we got back, uh we gotback together.
(38:20):
And right after we got backtogether, because I was spending
so much time trying to manage mymy marriage and my and my health
and and my kids, um, I gotfired.
I got fired for the first time.
And after a long, successfulrunning corporate, the wheels
fell off.
They began to fall off.
They got wobbly.
How about that?
And I lost a very lucrativeposition that we moved to St.
(38:43):
Louis for.
The benefits were strong, themoney was strong, the runway was
strong, but you can't fight awar on two fronts.
And I was fighting a war at homeand a war in the office, and
you're gonna lose when you fighta war on two fronts.
Angie was losing the war becauseher pills were were taken over.
SPEAKER_01 (39:02):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (39:02):
And she was she was in bed for sometimes 30 days at
a time.
SPEAKER_01 (39:06):
Oh, yeah, absolutely.
SPEAKER_00 (39:07):
Where she would come downstairs, she would eat, she
would criticize the family.
SPEAKER_01 (39:10):
I would yell at everyone, and then I'd go back
to bed.
SPEAKER_00 (39:12):
Go back to bed and take more pills, wake up in the
middle of the night and justtake pills, you know, and but
she was doing the best shecould.
SPEAKER_02 (39:18):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (39:18):
Meanwhile, I was trying to keep the the wheels on
the family, trying to keepthings going.
But um, yeah, and and give herthe benefit.
And I try, I always tried togive her the benefit of the
doubt that you know she's she'snot as bad as as obviously as
you were.
I didn't want to see that part.
Um so uh we got back togetherand uh I got another job.
(39:39):
Got five months of severancefrom that first termination.
And we drank the whole fivemonths.
And I mean, we picked my girlsup on the bus stop at 2 30, and
we were both drunk.
And we had been drinking sincethe beginning of how since a
happy hour started, and uh yeah,we drank for five months.
(40:00):
I just by chance got a brand newjob right after the severance
ran out.
So in January of 2015, I starteda new position as the general
manager of a firearmsmanufacturing company, which
that would, that was like, thisis my dream job.
And I I got to go to work everyday and be in an uh an
(40:25):
environment of firearms, which Ilove, and guns, and I'm a marine
vet, right?
And uh her her pharmaceuticaladdiction just kept increasing.
And I'd spend a lot of time onthe phone with her doctors just
trying to try to let them knowwhat the hell was going on.
And they all they all just theydid nothing about it.
She was taking four to fivehundred pills a month.
SPEAKER_01 (40:44):
And that's not an exaggeration.
Uh it that that is not anexaggeration at all.
Uh and they were all prescribed.
I I remember going to the uhpharmacy times to get my
prescriptions filled, and thepharmacist would look at it look
at the prescription as if itwere were uh were were fake, and
they would have to call in everymonth to make sure that it was
legitimate.
And it was.
SPEAKER_00 (41:03):
It was a time where doctors were over-prescribing
everything.
SPEAKER_01 (41:07):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (41:07):
Because they were being compensated to
over-prescribe everything.
So it's not just the isolatedincident, it was a it was a
whole thing in the city.
SPEAKER_01 (41:15):
The opiate epidemic was happening and the yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (41:17):
So she had fentanyl patches.
SPEAKER_01 (41:19):
Uh-huh.
You remember that?
Oh, yeah.
Like, yep.
For just regular back pain.
SPEAKER_00 (41:24):
Yeah, like we're talking about fentanyl coming
across and killing people, andshe was wearing fentanyl
patches.
SPEAKER_01 (41:28):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (41:29):
Like it, it was, it was just nuts.
SPEAKER_01 (41:30):
But and on top of that, having other drugs on top
of the fentanyl patches.
So I don't know how the thecross how I survived those
inner.
Yeah, that's just I don't knowhow we survived.
I don't know how I'm stillalive.
SPEAKER_00 (41:43):
I know how you are still alive, but I don't know
how either of us were alive fromall of that.
Um, but I got another job.
SPEAKER_02 (41:50):
Yep.
SPEAKER_00 (41:50):
And I lasted 15 months in that job because I was
trying to manage home and I wastrying to manage work, and I
couldn't focus on either.
And eventually I became uhincapable of leading my family
and incapable of leading thebusiness.
And I got pulled into aconference room where he said,
I've got to make a change.
And uh I took him out to lunch.
(42:13):
I took, I took that the guy wholet me go, um, his name's Dan.
I took him out to lunch about ayear later and I said, You saved
my life.
You saved my life because uh Ialmost committed suicide.
So on on April first, well,April, March 18th, 2016 is when
when the wheels fell off.
Soon after, uh well, April,April 1st, that is.
(42:37):
Uh April 1st was a time where itwas a very, very dark time.
And I almost killed myself.
And when I didn't and when Icouldn't, um, because I didn't
have the courage to, um, believeit or not, um, when I I started
started uh uh came down thesteps and I jumped on the
treadmill.
SPEAKER_01 (42:56):
Okay, but you're going, I think you're going
ahead now.
SPEAKER_00 (42:58):
I I came downstairs and I jumped on the treadmill.
And uh that was the first day ofthe reboot in our life.
So our our journey of recoveryand where how we got here
started on April 1st, 2016.
SPEAKER_02 (43:13):
Yep.
SPEAKER_00 (43:14):
And life, we're not gonna go into too much detail
about you know the the recoveryor or the not in this episode,
but we what I learned from allof that is the thing that saved
our lives were the wheelsfalling all the way off.
(43:34):
Because after that I filed fordivorce, and we literally hit
the reboot and the reset onevery aspect of our life.
SPEAKER_01 (43:42):
Right.
No, a hundred percent.
SPEAKER_00 (43:44):
Yeah.
So anything that we left out,anything that no, I don't know.
SPEAKER_01 (43:50):
I yeah, I just just the to your point was the the
wheels falling off saved ourlife, and it felt like abs it
felt like the world wascollapsing.
SPEAKER_00 (44:00):
Say say more about that.
Say say more about that in termsof in terms of how did it
looking back what how do youperceive it and and in the midst
of it, what were you feeling?
SPEAKER_01 (44:15):
That's I that's I that's hard to put that's hard
to articulate because it wasjust I felt just loss and
abandonment and fear and andanxiety and security, you know,
just all of it, all of it, likejust everything was it was like
my entire life was being rippedaway from me.
I just wanted to die.
I mean, I know I just literallyjust wanted to die.
SPEAKER_02 (44:36):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (44:37):
And I think subconsciously, all those years
with all the pills, I thinkthat's what I was just trying to
do.
I think so too.
SPEAKER_00 (44:43):
Yeah, I think so too.
And and I know for me, lookingback, looking at it, it was all
necessary and it was allbeautiful.
It was absolutely divinelyscripted.
It was obvious that she wasbeing protected by by by
guardian angels or by whatever.
Some there was somethingguarding and protecting her.
(45:05):
There was obviously somethingguarding and protecting me.
There was something guiding andprotecting both of us, watching
over us, because we had somework to do in order to be able
to share something with theworld that you can only share if
you come through all this.
SPEAKER_01 (45:19):
Right, yeah, right.
The script was written, we werejust being guided through it.
SPEAKER_00 (45:23):
Yeah.
Now it fucking sucked.
It we could put this, we couldput lipstick on a pig, but
looking back, it's beautiful.
And there's a teacher namedRobin Sharma.
He says, All change is scary upfront, messy in the middle, and
beautiful in the end.
And it turned out beautiful.
(45:45):
It's not always, there's stillsome messiness from time to
time.
But the point is, is at the end,when you get on the other side
of it, you can say, Oh my God,that was freaking beautiful.
And look how great that was.
In the midst of it, it fuckingsucks.
There's fear, there's anxiety,there's insecurity, there's
(46:06):
doubt, there's there'shopelessness, there's defeatism,
there's depression, there'spanic, there's sleepless nights,
there's there's fucking you're Iwas miserable and I was
paralyzed, and I was afraid oflosing everything for my family,
and I was afraid of not beingable to feed my girls, I was
afraid of losing still losing mywife.
(46:27):
I was afraid of what of just nothaving anything, and all of that
shit was required, but holy shitdid it suck.
What what were you most afraidof in that moment?
SPEAKER_01 (46:43):
Losing my family losing my family, losing my
security, losing just beingbeing forced back into that
lifestyle that I grew up in.
SPEAKER_02 (46:52):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (46:53):
I think that was that was definitely a big one.
Was you was was reverting backto, okay, I got out of that and
now here I am, and puttingmyself right back into it.
SPEAKER_00 (47:04):
You you were you you you were most afraid, and I know
from time to time that you'renot it's not completely clean
and clear now, right?
Not completely healed.
We it's for both of us, there'sa works in progress, but your
whole life was about avoidingthe trailer park.
SPEAKER_02 (47:20):
Oh, yeah, that's what yeah, that's what just
yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (47:22):
Your whole life, everything that you did was
about avoiding going back tothat.
Even getting in toxic argumentswith me, trying to push me away
to test me to see if we weregoing to get back to the trailer
park.
SPEAKER_02 (47:35):
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (47:36):
Everything was about avoidance.
SPEAKER_02 (47:38):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (47:38):
And when we're when we live in our shadows, that's
what it is.
There's something we want todon't want to experience, and
you live your entire life toavoid that thing, and you obsess
over the avoidance of thatthing.
Right.
And for me, my biggest fear waslosing my house and losing
losing my my uh lifestyle,losing my comfort just because I
(48:01):
wasn't supposed to have it.
My parents conditioned me andand and programmed me that I
wasn't supposed to have this,that I wasn't, I wasn't supposed
to be living like this.
This this wasn't for our family,this wasn't for people like us.
And it was just okay, now that Ihave it, and I'm not supposed to
have it, how do I keep it?
And I was so afraid of losingeverything and and not being
(48:21):
able to provide for you guys,right?
Not being able to provide foryou guys.
All that say that the journeywas exhausting, the journey of
healing was exhausting.
It required a lot of work, itrequired a lot of effort, it
required a lot of new wisdom andbeing different and becoming
(48:46):
different.
But without all of that chaosand with all that mess, we
wouldn't be the people that weare right now.
And I would take this overanything that I've ever had in
the past.
SPEAKER_01 (48:57):
Yeah, as long as I don't have to do it again.
SPEAKER_00 (49:01):
Yeah, I don't want to repeat all of it, but but
this isn't to say that there'sthis clearing and now we've got
this easy life.
SPEAKER_01 (49:11):
We're going, no, we're we're in, we're in our
little bit of mud right now forother different things, right?
There's always something,there's always another layer.
SPEAKER_00 (49:19):
It's not quite as deep, but but there's always
there's always anotherchallenge, there's always
another obstacle.
The point of life isn't to becomfortable, the point of life
is spiritual evolution.
SPEAKER_01 (49:30):
Well, and the difference now is the thing, the
challenges that we navigate now,we're navigating together.
We're a great team, we're notfighting against each other,
we're fighting with each other.
SPEAKER_00 (49:38):
There you go.
So as we bring this episode to aconclusion, it's not Mike
against Mike against Angie orAngie against Mike, it's Mike
and Angie against the problem.
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (49:49):
And that put And it was Mike and Mike versus Angie
for 15 years, and vice versa.
SPEAKER_00 (49:56):
And the way this all started was through divorce and
through me starting the processof healing, which we'll share
more about.
The process of healing and andand becoming different people,
because until you becomesomething different, you're not
going to, you're not gonna enjoysomething different.
(50:16):
Uh but we start I started aprocess.
I started the process ofhealing.
When Angie didn't want to comeon a journey, I filed for
divorce.
That's when she opted in, andthat's when things started to
get really, really good.
They weren't always easy, theywere volatile, but that's where
that's where it really startedwhen I filed for divorce and
then you jumped into thejourney.
SPEAKER_01 (50:34):
And I can't wait to start talking about that part.
unknown (50:36):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (50:37):
This was this was raunchy having to go back into
all that.
SPEAKER_00 (50:42):
Yeah, but this is the good stuff.
This sets the stage foreverything, okay?
This sets the stage foreverything.
And and we we did the best wecould in in sharing truth, not
embellishing, uh, but sharingthe truth and the reality of of
what happened in our lives.
SPEAKER_02 (50:56):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (50:56):
All right.
And this is gonna set the stagefor the next, you know, next
coming weeks, where we're gonnatalk about, you know, next week
we're gonna dive into therelationship part, okay?
A little bit more about therelationship, a survival-based
relationship versus versus aconscious relationship.
All right.
And that's where we move fromMike versus Angie or Angie
(51:17):
versus Mike, the Mike and Angieversus the problem, at a higher
level of consciousness,operating at a higher level of
awareness and really tacklingthis thing together from a place
in a place of commitment to eachother and honor to each other
that we are unbreakable andwe'll be able to solve any
conflict, any problem that comesup in our lives as long as we
stay unified and stay together.
(51:38):
You excited?
SPEAKER_01 (51:38):
I'm very excited.
SPEAKER_00 (51:39):
Awesome.
Guys, thanks for uh joining us.
It went really long.
And I think what I'm realizingis this series is going to be a
long series.
The episodes are gonna be alittle longer.
But look, if you loved what youheard, follow us on social
media, Mike and Mike Kitko,Angie Kitko.
Uh like, like the uh subscribeto the YouTube channel.
(52:00):
Go and and and subscribe to thepodcast, uh, the podcast,
whether it be on Apple Music oror on Spotify, um, and go to our
websites, innerwealthglobal.com.
On there you can get some freestuff to uh to connect, some
free content to connect and seewhere you know the books and and
things that that we'vepublished.
All right.
Love you guys.
See you next week.
SPEAKER_01 (52:20):
Bye.
SPEAKER_00 (52:25):
If you enjoyed what you heard and you want to learn
more, go towww.innerwealthglobal.com for
more tools and the first time.
Welcome to the Inner Wealth Podcast where we learn
and choose to live inspired eachand every day.
Hey guys, welcome back to partone in a 10-part series that we
began.
Uh we well, we officially begintoday, but that we introduced
(00:45):
last week, talking about our ourlife together, our lives, our
life together, our uh ourcollapse, our rebirth, the
cleanup, the mess, the cleaningup the mess that we made, and
kind of like walking throughsome of the healing that we went
through and sharing with youguys some of the healing
(01:08):
techniques and some of thethings that that we we utilized
and and we um I guess we doveinto in this in this healing
journey to really live a morepowerful life.
And uh I'm here with my bride.
Um she's here next to me.
If you're just listening, youcan't yeah, there you go.
SPEAKER_02 (01:27):
I'm here.
SPEAKER_00 (01:28):
If you if you're listening, you can't see her,
but if you're watching YouTube,you can.
And listen, uh, I would love itif you are just checking us out,
if you're just finding this, Iwould love if you uh if you
subscribed, if you liked, if youshared this podcast, if you uh,
you know, if you get any valueout of it.
But uh over the next 10 weeks,we're gonna be telling a very
(01:49):
powerful story.
And the way I framed it lastweek is I I am a public speaker,
I'm a I'm a coach, a publishedauthor, a speaker.
And oftentimes when I'm up onstage, I'm telling the story
about our life.
And when uh after the speakingevent, there's people, mainly
women, that corner her and say,I want to hear it from your
(02:11):
perspective.
So we're we're working um andthe intention and we'll work
what we're working on is makingsure Angie's voice is heard
equally to mine.
And I know I'm introducing thisa lot and I'm gonna turn it over
to her.
But the point is, is we wanna wewant to get our story in the
world and start this a morepowerful collaboration because
Angie has a lot to offer thathas been buried and surfaces
(02:35):
from time to time, but we're nowwe're we're diving in and we're
exposing it.
SPEAKER_01 (02:39):
Yeah, and we've you know we've met so many couples
over the years who'veexperienced situations quite
similar to ours and who haven'tbeen able to navigate through
this in a in a way to get themto the other side.
So we're just hoping that uh bysharing our story, we can
possibly help someone elsenavigate this journey together.
SPEAKER_00 (03:00):
And I'm sure we'll get into some of this later in a
later episode in a uh later inthis series.
But one of the things that Ilove most about this is every
time we've done a podcastepisode together, Angie, Angie's
voice has has strengthened.
She's become more confident,more courageous, showed up more.
(03:21):
And I love seeing the lightshine in you.
And I love seeing how you arebecoming better every time you
you you jump on here and youjust share who you are.
And that lights me up.
And that's pretty opposite ofhow I showed up for the first 16
years in our marriage.
And that's why we'll tell thatstory.
SPEAKER_01 (03:40):
Yeah, I'm trying.
It's uh it's it's still a littleawkward, but yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (03:44):
What's awkward about it?
SPEAKER_01 (03:46):
It's just everything, the camera, and I
don't know, just hearing, I hatehearing my voice.
Mike loves listening to hisvoice.
And I'm personally not a fan.
I I critique the hell out of it.
I talk too fast, I laugh tooloud.
I'm all I'm just I am my ownworst enemy.
SPEAKER_00 (04:03):
Yeah, so just to clarify, she doesn't like
hearing her voice or mine.
SPEAKER_01 (04:07):
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, I love hearing your voice.
It's just over and over.
SPEAKER_00 (04:13):
Same story, same stuff over and over and over.
Thought she has the life of Mikeand Angie.
But uh listen, today I thinkwhat we're gonna focus on today
is since this is part one, we'regonna start at the beginning.
And what we need to set, whatwe're gonna do is we're gonna
set the foundation for the restof the series where we really
talk about Angie's childhood,the environment that she grew up
(04:37):
in, because that had a lot to dowith what happened in in our
lives.
My childhood environment, whichhad a whole lot to do with what
happened in our lives, how howwe immediately got off to a
very, very toxic start in ourrelationship.
And that toxicity kept buildingover the course of 16 years.
(04:58):
So, and then we're we're notgonna we're not gonna go a whole
lot into the future this yearwith this episode, but we're
really gonna set the stage andtell the story of who what was
the past of Mike and Angie andwhat did it look like before our
collapse in 2016.
SPEAKER_01 (05:14):
There's no way we're gonna get through just the
childhood thing in one episode.
This is not gonna make itthrough 10.
It's gonna be longer than thatif the if we're gonna start from
from the childhood thing,because that's it might be a
longer, longer episode.
SPEAKER_00 (05:26):
So, but we'll we'll go it we'll go until the story's
told.
And a longer story, a longerepisode is okay too.
So, Angie, yes, let's start withyou.
Yeah, so I often talk about whenI'm up on stage, I talk about me
and I talk about the thechildhood, the environment that
created, you know, this theshadows that were in my life.
(05:47):
But the the story that you haveto share about your childhood is
even more powerful and evenmore, even more painful.
So it's not that not to it's acomparison, but really it is
important for you to set thetone in and stage and and not
exaggerate, but to really tellthe truth of where where you
came from.
SPEAKER_01 (06:06):
Yeah, um, I mean, I I was born to an impoverished
family in in northern Virginia,right outside of DC, Alexandria.
And um, my my mom was a16-year-old runaway, met my dad,
and they had me when she was 19,he was 21, and pretty much just
dumped me off at my grandma'sright away.
It was just their theirrelationship was toxic.
(06:28):
Um, they got divorced when I wastwo, and again, dumped off at my
grandma's, who miss her everyday.
She was my my rock, my angel.
Um, and just yeah, just lifegrowing up was, you know, I
loved my grandma, but ourentire, like it was, we were
your typical loud Irish drinkingfamily.
(06:50):
Our our little apartment was wasopen to every drunk in the city.
Um my dad had a revolving groupof women for the longest time,
and then they found the one whowould eventually become my
stepmom.
Um, my mom passed away when Iwas six years old.
So that was kind of a kind of atough thing.
(07:11):
And then my found my grandmotherdead of suicide just a year and
a half or so later.
Just chat and my dad.
SPEAKER_00 (07:18):
You found her.
SPEAKER_01 (07:19):
Yeah, they sent, yeah, it was she wasn't
responding to anyone's calls orletters because after my mom
died, she just shut herself downcompletely.
And um, we were sending herletters and we were knocking on
her door and calling, and shenever answered.
So they decided one day to do awellness check, and my they sent
me in.
Uh, so she had she had wasliterally laying on the floor
(07:39):
with a bottle of empty bottle ofvodka, and she was playing a
game of Yahtzee by herself.
That's how I found her.
And all of my letters that I hadwrote her were all they were the
only letters that were open ofall the letters that our family
sent.
So that's kind of stuck with me.
Uh, but yeah, my dad was aheroin addict.
He was uh you know, I saw himget stabbed when I was super
young.
(07:59):
I we saw him try to rob a cabdriver.
I mean, we it was just crazy.
I yeah, I mean, I was sexuallyassaulted at a very young age by
my my dad's friends, my father.
I mean, it was just as crazy.
SPEAKER_00 (08:13):
And they what happened when they found out
about it?
When when when your when yourdad and stepmom found out about
it, what found out about what?
The the when when when it wasunderstood about the septual
assault.
Yeah, no, that was when I whatwas the response?
SPEAKER_01 (08:28):
That my dad was part of it.
Yeah, yeah.
No, my dad's and from hisfriends were part of it.
Like he'd have have his buddiesover.
I remember we were we would wemoved all over the place.
I think one year we moved houseslike six or seven times.
I was in different schooldistricts all year long.
I don't think I ever stayed at aschool more than half a year.
(08:49):
Um, no, but my dad's friends,you know, we would he we would
make us sit on their laps andthey would touch us.
And, you know, first it startedas me.
And then I later on there wereother children involved.
That's not my story to tell.
Uh, so I'll just talk for me.
And um, you know, they'd havetheir drug dealers over and just
pretty much just had their waywith us.
But I think you're talking aboutthe part where when I got raped
(09:11):
when I was 13, I was raped whenI was 13, and when I told my
stepmother, and she just calledme a stupid slut, and it was my
fault.
SPEAKER_00 (09:20):
It was your fault.
That was the part that it wasyour fault.
That's the that's theenvironment, you know, the
wicked stepmother and and youknow, uh with stepsisters that
got preferential treatment.
SPEAKER_01 (09:31):
Yeah, yeah.
And you know, there were wewent, we were lived in and out
of flop houses and crack housesand wherever we could stay for
periodic times.
And it was one whole summer wehad no running water, no
electricity, we had no food.
We we would go and like we wouldliterally go to the store.
And I remember they had the bulkfood bins.
I think it was safely our giantfood, and we would go and just
(09:53):
steal cookies just to getsomething to eat.
And and my stepsister had a lot,you know, she and I will speak
on that because she she was thereason we ate a lot of days
because she would go and stealfood for us.
We go and knock on neighbors'doors and ask to borrow, borrow
hot dogs.
That's the one I remember, youknow, stealing toilet paper and
going and getting water from thegrocery from the gas station to
(10:13):
flush the toilet once a day.
It was, yeah, it was crazy.
So I um I finally left.
I I I got the the guts and upand I was like, this is not.
I always knew though that thisis that was not the life that I
sure was destined for.
Like that was not where I sawmyself.
Like I always envisioned thefamily and the house.
(10:34):
And I had like for some reason,I had the ability to make
friends with the kids who hadmoney, which was really odd
because I was, you know, alwayswearing hand-me-down clothes and
stuff.
But I always never felt lessthan around those people who had
money and having sleepovers andsingle family homes.
And I was like, oh, this is whatI want.
And I remember planting thatseed very young.
(10:56):
So yeah, I left home when I was14, got emancipated when I was
16, and we'll end that storythere because that goes into a
whole other kind of story.
SPEAKER_00 (11:06):
And and and I think there's there's another cool
part that the on the brighterside is she had a wealthy aunt,
and every once in a while she'dgo over a wealthy aunt's house
and she would lay in her her bedin their down comforter and and
you know, drive drive nice cars.
And Angie's like, this will bemine.
SPEAKER_01 (11:24):
Yeah, no, yeah.
So I definitely credit Di with aa lot of of my drive and
ambition to get out of thatbecause we would, we would stay
at her house, and she lived inin Bethesda, Maryland, and
always had a beautiful condo anda nice convertible.
And we would lay there in herbed with our big down comforter
and her fancy lotion.
(11:46):
And we, oh yes, 100%.
I had, and and she also taughtme to speak well.
So I had to drop out of schoolin ninth grade when I left home.
But I always literacy was alwaysvery important to me.
So I remember Guy alwayscorrecting our language, and I
really credit her for why I'msuch a grammar Nazi now.
SPEAKER_00 (12:04):
You are a grammar Nazi too, for sure.
If you, if you ever, if Angieever sees your writing and there
is an error, she is judging you.
I just want you to know she isjudging you.
SPEAKER_01 (12:16):
I remember our poor kids giving me a paper to read
in like fifth grade.
SPEAKER_00 (12:19):
I'm like, God damn it, I see 15 errors right there,
but I'm not gonna say if shesees a mistake that you make in
your writing, she she is judgingyou actively.
And uh when you you always knew,just to reiterate this, you
always knew that that wasn't thelife that you were always gonna
live.
SPEAKER_01 (12:38):
Yeah, and and my my aunt I and these were my
stepmother's sisters, and theythey they knew too, which is
great.
Like hearing that as an adult,and you heard you you've you've
heard them say that, like theyalways knew that I was
different, and I would be theone that got out.
And I am the only one out of thethe myself and my stepsister and
half sister that got out.
SPEAKER_00 (12:58):
Now you had two sisters, or you have two
sisters, and they they are stillkind of living in somewhat kind
of the one sisters in jail.
Those circumstances, but I'mtalking about the you know,
being still being around the theheroin addiction and you know,
whatever.
SPEAKER_01 (13:15):
It's they they're they're still they're still kind
of trying to they're stilladmired in that that poverty
stricken lifestyle, notnecessarily you know, there's
different circumstances to eachof them, but they're still in
that, and I hate to use thisphrase, but I'm going to in that
white trash trailer parklifestyle.
Like that's where they are.
SPEAKER_00 (13:31):
Yeah.
And uh and and I mean, yourolder sister, uh, I we know her,
and we just kind of hung outwith her for the first time in a
long time, and and she's veryenvious of what we have and what
we've built.
And uh, and she it kind ofinspired her a little bit in
some way.
So it was really cool to sharethat with her.
SPEAKER_01 (13:48):
And she's very proud of me, and she verbalizes that
when you know we don't speakoften, we have a bit of an
issue, we've tried to repair ourrelationship, but um it just
doesn't seem to work very well.
But she she has definitely andshe is she's very proud of what
we've built.
SPEAKER_00 (14:03):
Yeah, and and it's all comes through telling our
story, and that's why we'redoing stuff like this is our
story inspires people, andhopefully, uh you know, you can
we can always change ourcircumstances.
Yeah.
And that sets the stage for umfor me, I guess.
Um, I'm six years older thanAngie.
I grew up in Baltimore,Maryland, so not far from
Northern Virginia.
(14:23):
What is it, 50 miles, 60 miles,something like that?
SPEAKER_01 (14:26):
95 traffic.
SPEAKER_00 (14:27):
Yeah, well, hours.
But the point being is we didn'tgrow up very far from each other
um in proximity and geographicalproximity, but um in in years
for sure.
So uh my father was uh 19 my 19years older than uh than my mom.
And I I I like to think my dadlooked at my mom and she he's
(14:51):
20, he's like, that's a fineyoung thing.
She's one, and it is disgusting.
But we're six years apart.
So so you know, when when I was20, she was still a minor,
right?
But uh but that's not when wemet.
But uh we met when I was uh 27and she was 21.
So that's how we got our start.
But um my my childhood was notpoverty stricken.
(15:12):
Uh it was lower middle class, itwas blue-collar union steel
worker, uh, a little town in atown, an area, uh location, I
guess, community called Cantonin Baltimore.
Today it's more upscale.
It's been uh centrified.
SPEAKER_01 (15:31):
It's been centrified.
SPEAKER_00 (15:33):
And you know, the house that I grew up in, we we
actually got to go back into thehouse uh when we visited
Baltimore.
A lady invited us in into mychildhood house and it looks
nothing like it.
But uh it was very much a asmall, dusty, dirty, cluttered
Baltimore row house, shotgunstyle.
So when you you stood at thefront door, you could see all
(15:55):
the way through the back.
And uh there were at times therewere three of us boys, uh me and
I had two older brothers, uh, mymother, my father, and uh we me
and my brothers shared one smallbedroom.
Um Angie, Angie's very familiarwith my childhood at home, but
it was a small bedroom withthree beds in there.
Uh, and you know, it there was alot of um my father was the way
(16:18):
he approached us, he said, boy,if you ever think that you're
right and I'm wrong, let's godown to park, because there was
a park nearby.
And he said, and we'll throwdown, and whoever wins, they're
right.
So, and that's kind of how wesolve problems in the house.
And that's how my brother solvedproblems.
So it was pretty typical thatthey'd be washed, one one
brother would be washing dishes,the other be drying, and before
(16:40):
you know it, they're just on theground and they're just throwing
fists and they're just they'rejust hammering each other.
And uh, I know my my brother andmy father got into a physical
altercation before, and my myfather didn't he uh my brother
only challenged my dad once.
So after that, you know, therewas no more physical
altercations between my dad andus, except for except for
punishments.
(17:01):
Getting getting your your yourass whooped.
That was a pretty uh prettycommon thing.
But uh yeah, lower middle class,blue collar, union of steel
worker, gotta work hard.
Uh money is hard to make.
Rich people are greedy, richpeople are evil.
Um, you'll never have enough.
Um, we're we're made we're madeto struggle.
(17:23):
Um this this family works, youknow, we're hard workers and and
you you gotta work for the man,and you you know, union is the
only way to freaking preserveyour safety and security, and
really this lower middle classpoverty mindset and approach to
life, where if if anyone hasmoney, they obviously got it in
(17:45):
a very, very uh slimy way.
And I remember going down to myAunt Marge's house, uh loving
Aunt Marge, um deceased now, butuh I remember going down to my
Aunt Marge's house, and AuntMarge and my Uncle Chuck had
money, and there was a Christmastree in the house, a little
Christmas tree, and there werethere were b bills currency on
(18:09):
on the tree, like littleornaments.
And my my my Aunt Marge was allexcited.
She's like, go grab a bill, andit was all for all the kids.
I get emotional telling thestory.
And we go over and you you'dpluck a bill off the off the
tree, and sometimes it was ahundred, and sometimes it was a
50, and sometimes if it was a20, and and if it was too low,
she'd say, get another one.
(18:29):
And and you always left, youknow, at Christmas time.
Ah, I get emotional.
You always left Aunt Marge's andUncle Chuck's with a little bit
of money.
But the point being is the wholeway home, my parents would talk
shit about Aunt Marge and UncleChuck about flaunting wealth and
you know, really, really uh umleading with their money.
And and really they didn't theydidn't.
(18:51):
They didn't.
They were just generous, theywere just very generous and they
were very loving and they theythey were well off.
But the point being is if youhad money, you were there was
something wrong with you.
And and they demonized anybodywith money.
My parents did the best theycould.
Angie's parents did the bestthey could.
I think it's important to setthe the the stage there.
These aren't bad people.
(19:12):
They were just we're alloperating at the highest level
of consciousness that wepossibly can.
And and those people, just likeAngie and I for most of our
lives, we just weren't operatingat a very high level of
consciousness.
So this is no judgment, this wasno shame, this is no guilt, this
is no, this is no blame, this isjust this is this is what we
this was how we lived.
This was how we lived.
SPEAKER_01 (19:33):
Yeah, and I think that with what you just said, I
think one of the the biggesthealing points for me, now I'm
not jumping ahead with this, butis when I finally sat down and
thought about wow, what did mydad and what did my stepmom have
to endure in their childhoodthat made them that turned them
into those people that did that?
Like what did when I actuallythought, like, wow, was my
(19:56):
stepmom, she must have beensexually abused.
I mean, the physical.
The mentally emotional abuse sheput me through.
Like I know she learned thatfrom somewhere because we only
do what we're taught.
Yeah.
For sure.
And majority of the time.
SPEAKER_00 (20:10):
And that's why I spanked my girls.
SPEAKER_01 (20:11):
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (20:12):
Right.
I love them very much, but Iwould hurt them because I that
was the way I was taught.
And I just thought that wasnatural and normal.
SPEAKER_01 (20:17):
And we also grew up in the generation where getting
our asses whooped with this withthe wooden spoon was part of,
was just a part of that.
That's made us made us tougher.
SPEAKER_00 (20:26):
Yeah.
So to to finish out, you know,that that's the kind of the
environment that we grew up in.
Oh, and by the way, we were wewere raised in a very uh strict
Catholic environment where youwent to church and you look
perfect, then you came home andand the N-word was thrown around
all the time, and you know, andand just it it was just it it
was there was opposing sides,you know, of and I'll put my
(20:49):
hand in front of Angie, butopposing sides to what was shown
and what was happening, right?
Everybody thought the Kit Coshad this thing, this loving
family going on.
And meanwhile, there's freakingviolence and there's blame and
all kind of and and and I don'tknow.
It's just I I remember seeing mymy uh my mother got off the
(21:10):
phone and she obviously somebodycalled her about my brother, and
then you know, she came in witha a butter knife.
My brother was sleeping on acouch, and she just started
hitting them with the butterknife and yelling at him, and
and that was when I was likethree or four.
Like I remember that vividly.
And and it's just I was growingup in that environment that was
chaotic, that was that wasviolent, that was volatile, you
(21:31):
know, that it it was it it's atthe root of the foundation.
Uh my father was working all thetime, uh, and my mother was uh
pharmaceutically addicted.
She was uh not a veryaffectionate woman, affectionate
mom in terms of uh giving,giving love, giving physical
(21:54):
love, or you know, giving hugsor or embracing.
She was very physically distant,she was very emotionally
distant.
And a lot of times when I wentto school, she was laying in her
bed, and you know, I had to,from a very young age, most
times I had to make my breakfastand pack my lunch.
And it was the latchkey kidgeneration, but I did have a mom
there, she was there, but shewas just absent because she was
(22:15):
pharmaceutically addicted, andthat'll that'll come back up
here in in a little bit.
So my my father was my bestfriend uh for the first 10 years
of my life.
And he after we reconciled, uh,he became my best friend again.
And he actually became, youknow, the this her dad, her real
(22:35):
dad in the world.
But uh when my when I was 10, mybrother had a daughter.
And um when she was born, myfather completely started
ignoring me.
And my mother said that was hispattern.
He always paid attention to thebaby, and when there was a new
baby, the old baby got gotignored and got shunned and got
pushed away.
(22:56):
It was no longer that thatimportant or relevant in in his
life.
And that kind of set out set acourse of like abandonment,
right?
Where my I didn't have a mom.
She was physically, mentally,emotionally distant.
And at this point, I didn't havea dad.
So I felt like I had nobody inthe world.
And uh I I I took care ofmyself.
I it was all likeself-preservation.
That that's really what it camedown to.
(23:16):
And that's gonna, again, allthis stuff we're just setting
the stage.
All this is gonna come back uplater.
All right.
Um you're ready to you're readyto fast forward.
SPEAKER_01 (23:26):
Yeah, yeah.
I I I I gave I gave a clip thoseversion.
I didn't know you were gonna godown.
SPEAKER_00 (23:31):
I think I think it's important that we tell that we
tell the story.
So feel free to expand.
SPEAKER_01 (23:35):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (23:35):
Now I I got out of high school and I joined the
Marine Corps.
Angie got uh emancipated, gotengaged.
Yep, right?
SPEAKER_01 (23:46):
Yep, got engaged.
Um 17, I believe, was been withhim.
I we got together when I I waswith him when I left home at 14.
And you know, to this day, Ivery grateful that I had a place
to stay because yeah, you know,his family helped take care of
me.
And again, there we're stillvery good friends to this day.
(24:07):
And um emancipated, took, wasworking, and I started working
when I was very young.
I started working at 15.
And um, actually, that's how Ithe emancipation even came about
because I was working at alittle cafe in Bethesda,
Maryland, on Old Georgetown Roadcalled uh Sutton Place Gourmet.
There was a gentleman who wouldcome in every day and get the
same, same meal cheesebread andan espresso.
(24:30):
And one day he just asked me,why I was not in school.
And well, one of the things whenI left home was what I left out
was when my mom passed away.
She worked for the Department ofDefense.
She was a secretary uh there.
And so she left behind a I I wasI was receiving government
pension.
And um, so I got her socialsecurity and her government
pension, and my dad and stepmomused all that money for drugs.
(24:53):
And um I remember them chasingthe mailman down on the first of
the month.
That was always just so bizarre.
And um, anyway, so he asked meand I just spilled the whole
story to him and just don't evenknow why.
I mean, I do know why, but toldhim the whole story.
And the next day he came in, heslid a letter across the
counter, and it was from Milesand Stockbridge lawyers in
(25:15):
Rockville, Maryland, offering torepresent me pro bono in a case
of emancipation so that I couldget away from my father.
And then I would I became wouldbecome a ward of the state of
Maryland, and they would beresponsible for my finances
until I turned 18.
And it was a godsend.
And I will never forget that dayin court.
I just felt like my dad hadtaken so much from me that I was
(25:39):
just, I felt so man, that was agreat moment.
Him and my yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (25:45):
And and that that man, I'm not gonna mention his
name because you didn't, but uhtry we're trying to protect
folks.
SPEAKER_01 (25:52):
Jim, oh James, Jimmy?
Jimmy.
Oh, James, oh, James J.
Demma, attorney at law.
SPEAKER_00 (25:57):
He's uh Jimmy love you, but uh anyway, uh that's
important.
And Jimmy also helped her getinto college.
SPEAKER_01 (26:04):
Yes, so yep.
SPEAKER_00 (26:06):
She had a ninth grade education, she's a ninth
grade dropout, and she startedtaking college classes.
Okay, that's gonna come up latertoo, because there was some
self-worth issues and someconfidence issues, right?
That that that filtered in thestory.
Uh I graduated high school.
I went to work for uh a coupleengineering companies as a
draftsman.
I ultimately joined the UnitedStates Marine Corps, took
(26:27):
college classes all the waythrough through the Marine
Corps.
And when I graduated, or when Iwhen I uh when I got out of the
Marine Corps, I had two classesleft.
I finished my classes, and thenI decided to burn a little GI
Bill.
And when I when I I took twoclasses, and that was biology
and abnormal psychology 101.
And guess where Angie and I met?
SPEAKER_01 (26:50):
Abnormal Psychology 101.
SPEAKER_00 (26:53):
Abnormal Psychology, and that is like one of the best
parts of our story.
We met, and it was me and abunch of kids in this class.
I was the old man, and I keptasking everybody, hey, who wants
to go out and have a drink afterclass?
And everybody would tell me,like, fuck off, old man.
Not quite like that, but butthey they they really didn't
they they didn't really want togo out and hang out with the old
(27:15):
man, even though I was 27 andthey were freaking punks.
SPEAKER_01 (27:17):
But well, I was part of that too, and my ex-fiance
was, you guys are literally twoweeks apart.
He's just he's he's saying yeah,yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (27:25):
But uh Angie and I were part of some project teams
together.
So I had her phone number, shehad my phone number.
We we talked on the phone acouple times strictly about the
project.
There was no, there was reallyno interest there.
But then after after the thethis the semester ended and the
class ended, Angie, Angie waswas going out for drinks with
(27:48):
was I thought was her friends,but she invited me and I said,
Yeah, I'd love to come.
And it was me, her, and herfiance.
And we went out for a drink.
And at the end of the night,there was no more fiance.
SPEAKER_01 (28:00):
Yeah, there was uh yeah, he and I got into a a
conflict that was definitelyjust the just the the the
culmination of years and yearsand years of that toxic
relationship.
Yeah, and I walked away and my Iasked him to take me to my
friend Dorothy's house.
Dorothy was not home, so I wentback to Mike's apartment, and
that was that.
SPEAKER_00 (28:19):
That was that.
So and she never left.
We we did have a separation, wewere separated in 2014 for a few
weeks for about five weeks.
But besides that, she's we'vebeen together ever since.
Um fast forward, we we uh boughta car together, we bought a
house together, we got pregnant,and that all happened within two
(28:43):
years.
Within two years, it movedreally, really quickly.
We got married.
SPEAKER_01 (28:46):
Yeah, because that that happened.
So December 11th, 1999 was theday we went out, and then we
found out we were pregnant withour daughter, Katie, uh, just a
few days before 9-11.
So it went, yeah, it was fast,it was real fast.
SPEAKER_00 (29:00):
It it it all and and it was surreal for me, and it
just kept it it it was movingtoo quickly for sure, but I
didn't know what to do about it,and I didn't know how to
navigate it.
But it it it all just kept it itit all just seemed like the the
right next step, but maybe notthe correct next step.
SPEAKER_01 (29:17):
Yeah, it I and I can I can definitely look back now
and recognize that same feeling.
Like it doesn't feel like uhthis is what we're this is this
is what it's like we were beingpushed into it.
Like it was just like someonewas guiding us.
SPEAKER_00 (29:30):
I think we were and I think we I think we were.
I think we were being guided.
SPEAKER_01 (29:34):
Yeah, so yeah, yeah, definitely.
And yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (29:38):
Yeah, and and it all moves so quickly.
And and this is where, you know,but but look, our our our
relationship started on a barstool.
Okay, it started with a lot of alot of alcohol, a lot of
blackouts, a lot of drunkennights, a lot of arguing, a lot
of threats, and game calling andplaying and yes, oh, and and
(30:03):
threats and belittling and andme telling you how worthless you
were, and and me trying todevalue you, and me telling you
that you were nobody else wantedyou, and nobody else would have
you.
And it was just man, it was justwe were just horrible.
We were we were not very goodpeople.
We had we had a lot of fun whenwe were drinking, but when
(30:25):
things, when it wasn't about thedrinking, then all the all the
toxicity showed up, and it wasjust it it was physically,
mentally, emotionally abusive.
Very, very abusive.
SPEAKER_01 (30:38):
I just took what I had in my childhood and just
carried it over into both ofboth of my long-term
relationships.
I was the same with with my ex.
It was very toxic.
There was drug use and there wasfighting, there was physical
altercations, there was so muchemotional and mental abuse.
I mean, and then I just justrepeated the pattern with you,
and you were just repeating thepatterns that you saw.
SPEAKER_00 (31:00):
And that and that's why setting the foundation of
the of the childhoods, it's alljust conditioning and
programming.
We just carried that forward.
I saw my parents argue all thetime, especially about money.
So we argued all the time,especially about money.
We just and and I saw my motherbeing a nag to my dad and always
like absolutely impossible toplease.
(31:23):
And I married someone who atthat time was impossible to
please.
The target constantly moved, andand it was like I was always
trying to hit the target, but Icouldn't.
And I I was I I used to get sofrustrated because the target
kept moving and I was trying sohard to hit the freaking target.
But what I realized I was nevergoing to hit the target because
a moving target is is uh it's atrauma, it's a trauma response.
SPEAKER_01 (31:44):
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (31:45):
That's it.
It was a trauma response.
SPEAKER_01 (31:47):
Because I even yeah, there was nothing you could hit
because it's always it's like itit was how far can I push?
SPEAKER_00 (31:54):
How far can I, you know, how what it was here's
here's my here's my my take now.
How far can I push him tofinally prove that he's gonna
leave me?
SPEAKER_01 (32:08):
Yeah, yeah.
And and that's what I saw withmy dad and stepmom.
We were constantly, they wereconstantly leaving each other
and packing the kid, packing usup in the car and going.
And but it yeah, it was it wasconstant.
It was there was always startsof divorce.
So was and that was then uh Ibrought that forward.
SPEAKER_00 (32:27):
We both did.
We both did.
This isn't this isn't an angi,uh Angie Bad Mike group.
SPEAKER_01 (32:31):
All the same things pretty much.
SPEAKER_00 (32:33):
Both of us the the the the problem solver in me,
when she would talk about aproblem, I would try to solve
the problem, and trying to solvethe problem pissed her off, and
she just created anotherproblem.
And then when I tried to solvethat one, the target just kept
moving, and it was like I I Ididn't know what to do because
there was there was no winning.
But again, that's the traumaresponse.
(32:54):
But the the fixer in me wascodependence in me.
It was deep codependence.
That was my pat my father'spatterns playing out, trying to
trying to fix my mom, trying tobe the healer and the savior of
my mom.
And that's why it was so that'swhy it's so important to
understand our childhoodtraumas.
We were just emulating thebehavior that was modeled for
us.
So we moved out to uh somethingreally cool happened.
(33:16):
And he and I, it was right afterEaster of 2002, and when we had
our when Katie was a couplemonths old, and we had just had
holiday season and we went to uhmy my parents' house, we went to
her aunt's house, we went to seeher dad and her stepmom.
And that day was miserablebecause all we did was travel
and we didn't really get toenjoy Easter.
(33:38):
And Angie said, you know,wouldn't it be cool if we just
moved away and we just focused,moved somewhere far away, and we
just focused on our littlefamily?
And I said, you know what?
That sounds wonderful.
That would be wonderful.
And a couple days later, I gotcalled into a conference room at
work, and they told all hundredof us that they were closing the
operation and moving, uh, goingto invite a couple of us to move
(33:59):
it back to Beaverden, Oregon,back to home campus.
And I was one of five that wereinvited.
Ultimately, three of us made thetrip, but I was one of five
invited, and I think Angie said,you know, she planted that seed,
and that is the manifestationprocess.
That's the creation process,right?
And we'll talk about thecreation process at some point,
but it's a wonderful, beautifulstory.
(34:21):
But that set the stage for thenext, you know, bunch of years
because we spent 10 years inPortland, Oregon, increasing in
volatility, in increasing indrama, increasing in pain.
And then we we moved to where wewere trying to escape the pain
that we were feeling by movingto the the the Beaverdon,
(34:41):
Oregon.
And then we we uh we did thesame thing in 2013 and we moved
right outside of St.
Louis, Missouri and St.
Charles, Missouri.
SPEAKER_01 (34:49):
Yep, and problems came with that.
SPEAKER_00 (34:50):
And all the problems, because no matter
where you go, there you are.
And uh our lives were full ofwhen I mentioned my mom was
physically, mentally,emotionally unavailable, and uh
me having the abandonmentissues, those all just kept
coming to surface because I Imarried a woman that became
pharmaceutically addicted, wasphysical, mentally, emotionally
(35:12):
uh uh uh distant.
Uh I was always trying to chaseher because I was afraid of
being abandoned.
She was playing out of hershadows, I was playing out of my
shadows.
I we beat the shit out of eachother.
Our daughters were raised in acompletely volatile, toxic uh
environment where threats,divorce, seeing pills get pulled
(35:36):
out of mouths, having beersdumped over each other because
we were so drunk.
Well, no, her dumping beers overme because I was so drunk.
SPEAKER_01 (35:44):
Yeah, being in and out of rehab, in and out in and
out of psychiatric facilities.
Yeah, this it was arrests.
SPEAKER_02 (35:53):
Arrests.
SPEAKER_01 (35:54):
Um I I was on so many pharmaceuticals, I had no
idea what I was doing.
I mean, and it's it's reallygross.
And these were all prescribed.
I just want to be very clear.
I thought I was a better drugaddict than my father because I
got my pills, I got my drugslegally.
But there were doctors out thereway over prescribing, and I was,
I uh unfortunately fell victimto that.
(36:16):
And I hate to use word victim,but that's just you know how
what it is.
I take responsibility forputting them in my mouth.
But um, yeah, and it just justcompletely unavailable.
Like all I I was just living tonumb, love living to be numb.
But I think that so thosepatterns repeated.
And I think that the he as hegrew as Mike climbed the
(36:38):
corporate ladder and startedmaking more money and making
more money.
I was always to me like the thegoal to reach was making six
figures.
So it was like, as long as thathappens, we're okay.
And everything looked great onFacebook, and we would go to
Mexico every year, and it wouldbe posted on social media, and
we had a boat and we had nicecars and we had a nice house.
(37:01):
So I put I I remember putting,you know, putting on this front
that everything was perfect, butbehind closed doors, just like
what you said earlier, it was itwas chaos and toxic and just
miserable.
SPEAKER_00 (37:14):
Yeah, and there was infidelity.
We're not gonna get into thatthe stories, but there was
infidelity, there was lots ofabuse, there was lots of
manipulation, control, guilt andshame.
And I I I I learned this from myown life, right?
Guilt, shame, anger, threats,and blame, they're all weapons
of the weak.
Yeah.
So that's what you use whenyou're when you're weak, when
(37:35):
you're when you're not, youknow, spiritually strong in
terms of not religion, notreligious strong, but
spiritually strong in your inyour mental emotional pattern
with makeup, right?
And when there's when you'reoperating from your trauma.
But the point being, I and hehit, I was, I was riding the
corporate ladder.
It was always about the nextstep, the next title, the next
raise, the next, the nextvacation, the next vacation, or
(37:59):
the next vacation, the nextwhatever, you know, the next
role.
And no matter how much we had,it wasn't enough.
And I just kept pushing and Ikept getting bigger and bigger
and bigger, and I kept drinkingmore and more and more.
And Angie kept becoming more andmore distant.
And we there there wasinfidelity and there was a
separation.
And then we got back, uh we gotback together.
(38:20):
And right after we got backtogether, because I was spending
so much time trying to manage mymy marriage and my and my health
and and my kids, um, I gotfired.
I got fired for the first time.
And after a long, successfulrunning corporate, the wheels
fell off.
They began to fall off.
They got wobbly.
How about that?
And I lost a very lucrativeposition that we moved to St.
(38:43):
Louis for.
The benefits were strong, themoney was strong, the runway was
strong, but you can't fight awar on two fronts.
And I was fighting a war at homeand a war in the office, and
you're gonna lose when you fighta war on two fronts.
Angie was losing the war becauseher pills were were taken over.
SPEAKER_01 (39:02):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (39:02):
And she was she was in bed for sometimes 30 days at
a time.
SPEAKER_01 (39:06):
Oh, yeah, absolutely.
SPEAKER_00 (39:07):
Where she would come downstairs, she would eat, she
would criticize the family.
SPEAKER_01 (39:10):
I would yell at everyone, and then I'd go back
to bed.
SPEAKER_00 (39:12):
Go back to bed and take more pills, wake up in the
middle of the night and justtake pills, you know, and but
she was doing the best shecould.
SPEAKER_02 (39:18):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (39:18):
Meanwhile, I was trying to keep the the wheels on
the family, trying to keepthings going.
But um, yeah, and and give herthe benefit.
And I try, I always tried togive her the benefit of the
doubt that you know she's she'snot as bad as as obviously as
you were.
I didn't want to see that part.
Um so uh we got back togetherand uh I got another job.
(39:39):
Got five months of severancefrom that first termination.
And we drank the whole fivemonths.
And I mean, we picked my girlsup on the bus stop at 2 30, and
we were both drunk.
And we had been drinking sincethe beginning of how since a
happy hour started, and uh yeah,we drank for five months.
(40:00):
I just by chance got a brand newjob right after the severance
ran out.
So in January of 2015, I starteda new position as the general
manager of a firearmsmanufacturing company, which
that would, that was like, thisis my dream job.
And I I got to go to work everyday and be in an uh an
(40:25):
environment of firearms, which Ilove, and guns, and I'm a marine
vet, right?
And uh her her pharmaceuticaladdiction just kept increasing.
And I'd spend a lot of time onthe phone with her doctors just
trying to try to let them knowwhat the hell was going on.
And they all they all just theydid nothing about it.
She was taking four to fivehundred pills a month.
SPEAKER_01 (40:44):
And that's not an exaggeration.
Uh it that that is not anexaggeration at all.
Uh and they were all prescribed.
I I remember going to the uhpharmacy times to get my
prescriptions filled, and thepharmacist would look at it look
at the prescription as if itwere were uh were were fake, and
they would have to call in everymonth to make sure that it was
legitimate.
And it was.
SPEAKER_00 (41:03):
It was a time where doctors were over-prescribing
everything.
SPEAKER_01 (41:07):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (41:07):
Because they were being compensated to
over-prescribe everything.
So it's not just the isolatedincident, it was a it was a
whole thing in the city.
SPEAKER_01 (41:15):
The opiate epidemic was happening and the yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (41:17):
So she had fentanyl patches.
SPEAKER_01 (41:19):
Uh-huh.
You remember that?
Oh, yeah.
Like, yep.
For just regular back pain.
SPEAKER_00 (41:24):
Yeah, like we're talking about fentanyl coming
across and killing people, andshe was wearing fentanyl
patches.
SPEAKER_01 (41:28):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (41:29):
Like it, it was, it was just nuts.
SPEAKER_01 (41:30):
But and on top of that, having other drugs on top
of the fentanyl patches.
So I don't know how the thecross how I survived those
inner.
Yeah, that's just I don't knowhow we survived.
I don't know how I'm stillalive.
SPEAKER_00 (41:43):
I know how you are still alive, but I don't know
how either of us were alive fromall of that.
Um, but I got another job.
SPEAKER_02 (41:50):
Yep.
SPEAKER_00 (41:50):
And I lasted 15 months in that job because I was
trying to manage home and I wastrying to manage work, and I
couldn't focus on either.
And eventually I became uhincapable of leading my family
and incapable of leading thebusiness.
And I got pulled into aconference room where he said,
I've got to make a change.
And uh I took him out to lunch.
(42:13):
I took, I took that the guy wholet me go, um, his name's Dan.
I took him out to lunch about ayear later and I said, You saved
my life.
You saved my life because uh Ialmost committed suicide.
So on on April first, well,April, March 18th, 2016 is when
when the wheels fell off.
Soon after, uh well, April,April 1st, that is.
(42:37):
Uh April 1st was a time where itwas a very, very dark time.
And I almost killed myself.
And when I didn't and when Icouldn't, um, because I didn't
have the courage to, um, believeit or not, um, when I I started
started uh uh came down thesteps and I jumped on the
treadmill.
SPEAKER_01 (42:56):
Okay, but you're going, I think you're going
ahead now.
SPEAKER_00 (42:58):
I I came downstairs and I jumped on the treadmill.
And uh that was the first day ofthe reboot in our life.
So our our journey of recoveryand where how we got here
started on April 1st, 2016.
SPEAKER_02 (43:13):
Yep.
SPEAKER_00 (43:14):
And life, we're not gonna go into too much detail
about you know the the recoveryor or the not in this episode,
but we what I learned from allof that is the thing that saved
our lives were the wheelsfalling all the way off.
(43:34):
Because after that I filed fordivorce, and we literally hit
the reboot and the reset onevery aspect of our life.
SPEAKER_01 (43:42):
Right.
No, a hundred percent.
SPEAKER_00 (43:44):
Yeah.
So anything that we left out,anything that no, I don't know.
SPEAKER_01 (43:50):
I yeah, I just just the to your point was the the
wheels falling off saved ourlife, and it felt like abs it
felt like the world wascollapsing.
SPEAKER_00 (44:00):
Say say more about that.
Say say more about that in termsof in terms of how did it
looking back what how do youperceive it and and in the midst
of it, what were you feeling?
SPEAKER_01 (44:15):
That's I that's I that's hard to put that's hard
to articulate because it wasjust I felt just loss and
abandonment and fear and andanxiety and security, you know,
just all of it, all of it, likejust everything was it was like
my entire life was being rippedaway from me.
I just wanted to die.
I mean, I know I just literallyjust wanted to die.
SPEAKER_02 (44:36):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (44:37):
And I think subconsciously, all those years
with all the pills, I thinkthat's what I was just trying to
do.
I think so too.
SPEAKER_00 (44:43):
Yeah, I think so too.
And and I know for me, lookingback, looking at it, it was all
necessary and it was allbeautiful.
It was absolutely divinelyscripted.
It was obvious that she wasbeing protected by by by
guardian angels or by whatever.
Some there was somethingguarding and protecting her.
(45:05):
There was obviously somethingguarding and protecting me.
There was something guiding andprotecting both of us, watching
over us, because we had somework to do in order to be able
to share something with theworld that you can only share if
you come through all this.
SPEAKER_01 (45:19):
Right, yeah, right.
The script was written, we werejust being guided through it.
SPEAKER_00 (45:23):
Yeah.
Now it fucking sucked.
It we could put this, we couldput lipstick on a pig, but
looking back, it's beautiful.
And there's a teacher namedRobin Sharma.
He says, All change is scary upfront, messy in the middle, and
beautiful in the end.
And it turned out beautiful.
(45:45):
It's not always, there's stillsome messiness from time to
time.
But the point is, is at the end,when you get on the other side
of it, you can say, Oh my God,that was freaking beautiful.
And look how great that was.
In the midst of it, it fuckingsucks.
There's fear, there's anxiety,there's insecurity, there's
(46:06):
doubt, there's there'shopelessness, there's defeatism,
there's depression, there'spanic, there's sleepless nights,
there's there's fucking you're Iwas miserable and I was
paralyzed, and I was afraid oflosing everything for my family,
and I was afraid of not beingable to feed my girls, I was
afraid of losing still losing mywife.
(46:27):
I was afraid of what of just nothaving anything, and all of that
shit was required, but holy shitdid it suck.
What what were you most afraidof in that moment?
SPEAKER_01 (46:43):
Losing my family losing my family, losing my
security, losing just beingbeing forced back into that
lifestyle that I grew up in.
SPEAKER_02 (46:52):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (46:53):
I think that was that was definitely a big one.
Was you was was reverting backto, okay, I got out of that and
now here I am, and puttingmyself right back into it.
SPEAKER_00 (47:04):
You you were you you you were most afraid, and I know
from time to time that you'renot it's not completely clean
and clear now, right?
Not completely healed.
We it's for both of us, there'sa works in progress, but your
whole life was about avoidingthe trailer park.
SPEAKER_02 (47:20):
Oh, yeah, that's what yeah, that's what just
yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (47:22):
Your whole life, everything that you did was
about avoiding going back tothat.
Even getting in toxic argumentswith me, trying to push me away
to test me to see if we weregoing to get back to the trailer
park.
SPEAKER_02 (47:35):
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (47:36):
Everything was about avoidance.
SPEAKER_02 (47:38):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (47:38):
And when we're when we live in our shadows, that's
what it is.
There's something we want todon't want to experience, and
you live your entire life toavoid that thing, and you obsess
over the avoidance of thatthing.
Right.
And for me, my biggest fear waslosing my house and losing
losing my my uh lifestyle,losing my comfort just because I
(48:01):
wasn't supposed to have it.
My parents conditioned me andand and programmed me that I
wasn't supposed to have this,that I wasn't, I wasn't supposed
to be living like this.
This this wasn't for our family,this wasn't for people like us.
And it was just okay, now that Ihave it, and I'm not supposed to
have it, how do I keep it?
And I was so afraid of losingeverything and and not being
(48:21):
able to provide for you guys,right?
Not being able to provide foryou guys.
All that say that the journeywas exhausting, the journey of
healing was exhausting.
It required a lot of work, itrequired a lot of effort, it
required a lot of new wisdom andbeing different and becoming
(48:46):
different.
But without all of that chaosand with all that mess, we
wouldn't be the people that weare right now.
And I would take this overanything that I've ever had in
the past.
SPEAKER_01 (48:57):
Yeah, as long as I don't have to do it again.
SPEAKER_00 (49:01):
Yeah, I don't want to repeat all of it, but but
this isn't to say that there'sthis clearing and now we've got
this easy life.
SPEAKER_01 (49:11):
We're going, no, we're we're in, we're in our
little bit of mud right now forother different things, right?
There's always something,there's always another layer.
SPEAKER_00 (49:19):
It's not quite as deep, but but there's always
there's always anotherchallenge, there's always
another obstacle.
The point of life isn't to becomfortable, the point of life
is spiritual evolution.
SPEAKER_01 (49:30):
Well, and the difference now is the thing, the
challenges that we navigate now,we're navigating together.
We're a great team, we're notfighting against each other,
we're fighting with each other.
SPEAKER_00 (49:38):
There you go.
So as we bring this episode to aconclusion, it's not Mike
against Mike against Angie orAngie against Mike, it's Mike
and Angie against the problem.
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (49:49):
And that put And it was Mike and Mike versus Angie
for 15 years, and vice versa.
SPEAKER_00 (49:56):
And the way this all started was through divorce and
through me starting the processof healing, which we'll share
more about.
The process of healing and andand becoming different people,
because until you becomesomething different, you're not
going to, you're not gonna enjoysomething different.
(50:16):
Uh but we start I started aprocess.
I started the process ofhealing.
When Angie didn't want to comeon a journey, I filed for
divorce.
That's when she opted in, andthat's when things started to
get really, really good.
They weren't always easy, theywere volatile, but that's where
that's where it really startedwhen I filed for divorce and
then you jumped into thejourney.
SPEAKER_01 (50:34):
And I can't wait to start talking about that part.
unknown (50:36):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (50:37):
This was this was raunchy having to go back into
all that.
SPEAKER_00 (50:42):
Yeah, but this is the good stuff.
This sets the stage foreverything, okay?
This sets the stage foreverything.
And and we we did the best wecould in in sharing truth, not
embellishing, uh, but sharingthe truth and the reality of of
what happened in our lives.
SPEAKER_02 (50:56):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (50:56):
All right.
And this is gonna set the stagefor the next, you know, next
coming weeks, where we're gonnatalk about, you know, next week
we're gonna dive into therelationship part, okay?
A little bit more about therelationship, a survival-based
relationship versus versus aconscious relationship.
All right.
And that's where we move fromMike versus Angie or Angie
(51:17):
versus Mike, the Mike and Angieversus the problem, at a higher
level of consciousness,operating at a higher level of
awareness and really tacklingthis thing together from a place
in a place of commitment to eachother and honor to each other
that we are unbreakable andwe'll be able to solve any
conflict, any problem that comesup in our lives as long as we
stay unified and stay together.
(51:38):
You excited?
SPEAKER_01 (51:38):
I'm very excited.
SPEAKER_00 (51:39):
Awesome.
Guys, thanks for uh joining us.
It went really long.
And I think what I'm realizingis this series is going to be a
long series.
The episodes are gonna be alittle longer.
But look, if you loved what youheard, follow us on social
media, Mike and Mike Kitko,Angie Kitko.
Uh like, like the uh subscribeto the YouTube channel.
(52:00):
Go and and and subscribe to thepodcast, uh, the podcast,
whether it be on Apple Music oror on Spotify, um, and go to our
websites, innerwealthglobal.com.
On there you can get some freestuff to uh to connect, some
free content to connect and seewhere you know the books and and
things that that we'vepublished.
All right.
Love you guys.
See you next week.
SPEAKER_01 (52:20):
Bye.
SPEAKER_00 (52:25):
If you enjoyed what you heard and you want to learn
more, go towww.innerwealthglobal.com for
more tools and the first time.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.
Two Guys, Five Rings: Matt, Bowen & The Olympics
Two Guys (Bowen Yang and Matt Rogers). Five Rings (you know, from the Olympics logo). One essential podcast for the 2026 Milan-Cortina Winter Olympics. Bowen Yang (SNL, Wicked) and Matt Rogers (Palm Royale, No Good Deed) of Las Culturistas are back for a second season of Two Guys, Five Rings, a collaboration with NBC Sports and iHeartRadio. In this 15-episode event, Bowen and Matt discuss the top storylines, obsess over Italian culture, and find out what really goes on in the Olympic Village.