In this episode of the Inquiry Oasis, host Jeffrey Anthony sits down with Dr. Sunggye Hong, a leading faculty member at the University of Arizona's College of Education, who is breaking new ground in the realm of accessible science education for the visually impaired. Dr. Hong elucidates the transformative possibilities that lie at the intersection of assistive technology, multisensory approaches, and STEM curricula. Their conversation takes us on a journey from the barriers of traditional educational paradigms to the frontiers of inclusivity, revealing how Dr. Hong's work is not merely about accommodation, but about redefining the very fabric of educational experiences. Tune in to discover an inspiring narrative that challenges us to think differently about the role of technology and sensory diversity in shaping a more equitable academic landscape.
Topics Covered:
- The Evolution of Assistive Technology
- The Significance of Multisensory Learning
- The Role of Planetary Science in Inclusive Education
- Navigating the Barriers to Accessibility in STEM
- The Impact of High Expectations on Students with Visual Impairments
- Dr. Hong's Personal Journey and Motivations
- Community Benefits of Inclusive Research at the University of Arizona
- Future Horizons: Dr. Hong's Vision for Assistive Technologies
Book Recommendation:
- Haben: The Deafblind Woman Who Conquered Harvard Law by Haben Girma
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Jeffrey Anthony (00:02):
Welcome to the Inquiry Oasis, a
University of Arizona Collegeof Education and Podcast.
Here in the heart of theSonoran Desert, we bring
you conversations with ouresteemed faculty and staff
whose research impacts livesfrom Southern Arizona to the
far reaches of the globe.
Recording From the College ofEducation's Digital Innovation
and Learning Lab, we explorethe transformative power of
(00:24):
education in this border townwhere diverse cultures and ideas
converge, weaving a tapestryof innovation with compassion
and a sense of wonder.
Join us as we journey throughthe sands of curiosity,
unearthing insightsthat enrich and inspire.
So sit back and relaxas we invite you to dive
into the inquiry Oasis.
(00:46):
Thank you for tuninginto the Inquiry Oasis.
I'm your host, JeffreyAnthony, and today we're
honored to welcome Dr.
Sunggye Hong, an associateprofessor in the Department of
Disability and psychoeducationalstudies and David and Minnie
Myerson's, DistinguishedProfessor and Special Education
Unit Chair at the University ofArizona College of Education.
Dr.
Hong has dedicated his careerto promoting equal access
(01:08):
to educational opportunitiesfor students who are blind
or visually impaired with orwithout additional disabilities.
His research encompassesareas such as braille reading,
assistive technology, and theSTEM education of students
with visual impairments.
Whether it's through teachingclass, I'm gonna start over
there, whether it's throughteaching classes on braille
literacy development.
Nemeth code or devisinginstructional strategies
(01:31):
for students withvisual impairments.
Dr.
Hong's work is a testamentto his commitment to
inclusivity and accessibility.
And this brings us to thetopic of our discussion today.
We will delve into Dr.
Hong's extensive research andexplore how his efforts are
shaping the future of educationfor visually impaired students.
We'll also discuss hisperspectives on technology,
(01:52):
pedagogical strategies andthe importance of equal access
in educational settings.
So without further ado,let's embark on this
enlightening journey with Dr.
Hong here in the inquiry Oasis.
It's an honor to bespeaking with you, Dr.
Hong.
Dr. Sunggye Hong (02:04):
Hello, and nice to be here.
Jeffrey Anthony (02:06):
So before we delve into the intricacies of
your work in visual impairmenteducation, I was hoping you
could share with our audienceyour background and the
motivation that has guided thisremarkable path you are on.
Dr. Sunggye Hong (02:16):
I don't know if the remarkable,
that word is the right word,to, uh, describe who I am.
Mainly my work has been,you know, identified
probably to a degree andpromoted by my own needs.
To those of you who arelistening into, this program,
I'm a person who, is visuallyimpaired and I'm completely
(02:37):
blind and has been brailreader, for my entire life.
And so as a child withvisual impairments, I've
gone through schools andlearned things with touch.
And, and through that process,you know, I've thought a lot
about, like, I'm, giving thisquestion to myself like, what is
it to be blind in our society?
(02:59):
And that's probably is verycultural question to a degree.
But on, on top of that,the public usually would
approach, the idea of beingblind or being disabled as
very quote unquote pity or,uh, emotional, subjects.
And, As a child, I thought thatthere gotta be better way of
dealing with this than simplysaying like, oh, what a pity,
(03:22):
a, you know, blind personor, what can I help you with?
You know, that, thatkind of, of, approach.
as I was growing up, I washoping that, there would be
things that I would be ableto, take care of the needs of
my own as well as, studentsand children like who I am,
who, who can't see things,and, but in the meantime would
(03:45):
like to become a contributingcitizen in the society and
being able to maintain,quote unquote "normal" life.
And so that's, I guesswhat took me here.
And, probably spent themajority of my energy for,
researching, studying, and,you know, uh, working and,
(04:05):
meeting people on top of myneeds or my own personal,
needs as playing guitar asmy fun thing to do, right?
that's probablywhat, took me here.
Jeffrey Anthony (04:15):
So we're eager to hear about the
focus of your research.
What drives your investigationsinto braille reading assistive
technology, and the STEMeducation for students
with visual impairments?
Dr. Sunggye Hong (04:25):
Well, I've talked about the questions,
as we were to, talk questions,about like what is the tool to
make the student with visualimpairments to be productive and
contributing citizens into thecommunity and into the society.
There are some words, thatguided, my mind and one is to
(04:46):
be equitable, and that's becausewe as a, uh, you know, a person.
As a rights to be equal and,uh, being able to, do things
in a manner that's equitable.
However, what often peopletend to forget is the
needs of being different.
That is while the ideathat we'd like to read
(05:10):
books, Is same, right?
It's whether you are blindor whether you are sighted,
you are reading books.
Mm-hmm.
But then the way thatyou do it is different.
Some people would usebraille to do that, and
others would use print toaccomplish the same task.
The things that, you mentionedthat is Braille code, assistive
(05:35):
technology and STEM educationare the tools to make that
process of being different,to be more accessible, meaning
that, by utilizing technology,I would be able to do things
that otherwise I wouldn't beable to do or with less efforts.
For example, I often quotes thatwhen I was a, uh, a student at,
(05:58):
uh, college, a while ago, about,uh, twenty- seven, eight years
ago, the way that I would, getan article out of a journal,
that was, quoted on my syllabuswould be to go to the library,
talk to the librarian, askingthe person to help me to find
(06:18):
the shelf on the fourth floor.
Grab the journal title.
Come down to, the groundfloor, go to the copy room
and ask someone to helpme to make a copy of that.
'cause often if, even if I weretrying to do it, there's some
edges that are cut off and that,so that wouldn't work well.
So then I would bring that,copied, journal article back
(06:41):
to the Disability ResourceCenter and find a volunteer to
record it on a, tape player.
And then that probablywould take another two
or three days before Iwould have access to it.
So I would receive that,uh, cassette tape and come
back and listen to it.
An overall process probablywill take easy, you know, a
week or two weeks, whereastoday, if I were given a
(07:04):
title of a journal article,I would just go search it.
And, uh, being able to pullit up, open PDF, and read
it, and that probably wouldtake about two minutes.
So it really, is thatthose three tools, the
technology, you know, thebraille and then the STEM.
Probably would, uh, serveas a tool that, uh, make
(07:27):
myself and, many people withvisual impairments and many
people who are disabled tobe, better, to be included
in this society in a mannerthat's much more, exciting
and that's much more, eithersmooth than say without it.
Jeffrey Anthony (07:45):
Well this is really fascinating to hear,
'cause what I hear there isthat these technologies are
building capacities for more,interactions between, people
and scholarship and alsolearning and experiencing
and sharing knowledge.
would that be an accurate.
description.
Dr. Sunggye Hong (07:56):
I think you did a nice job of, uh,
summarizing the contexthere, because when I
say being different, thepeople tend to forget that.
There gotta be a way for youto do things in a certain way,
but that definitely is nottrue in many instances and
especially in our society wherethere are a lot of views and
a lot of ways doing things.
(08:17):
Things like multi-sensoryapproach where you would
utilize every possibleway of gaining access to
things is very important.
In that I think what youjust described is the
concept of accessibility.
Where it's not just blindpeople, it's not just, uh,
people with disabilities to havethe rights to be accessible.
(08:39):
Right.
the things can be different,but in a way that we,
should be able to enjoy anexperience where all the things
that we do is accessible.
And in that, I would like tobring a, quote, there is an
author that I, think is veryimpactable in the at, um, uh,
(09:00):
Haben Girma, discussed thatAccessibility is not just
convenient, it is a humanright, and I cannot agree
more on her, words than that.
It really, sets the tone,create an experiences that's
equitable for many people.
So in that we're achievingan experience where
(09:21):
the things that we do.
Although, for the same taskwould be different, that the
task itself is accessible andthat whether you're blind,
whether you are not, whetheryou're disabled, whether
you're not, you should beable to, achieve the task,
the goal, the concepts,in a manner, um, that is
accessible to everyone.
(09:43):
And I think that really is what,um, drove my, research in that
as a result, you know, I try tocreate, research projects where
students with visual impairmentsare able to take part in
science and technology and STEMeducation equitably with others.
(10:05):
So there are different toolsthat we use in the process.
We've used mentorshipas an important way of,
making the students tobe excited about STEM.
We also utilized, various,educational technology,
such things as 3-D printers,and, sound as a way for
(10:26):
these students to access,different sector and
types of, STEM education.
But I think what is mostimportant that I learned from
the process is both for thepublic and the students to
understand the concept that highexpectations becomes the key.
In other words, it has beenopen coded that people with
(10:47):
visual impairments, theemployment rates, for them,
Is very, low compared to,the rest of the population.
it is usually coded that,only 30% or so of people with
visual impairments are workingcompetitively in job markets.
And I think that's a verydiscouraging to a degree.
And I think what really makes,the chain, to be, to break
(11:12):
is so that both, People withvision impairments and then
the public would have highexpectations so that it is
not just that the public wouldfeel as if whatever the person
with disabilities do thingsand they would see it as, uh,
you know, pity and emotional.
But it is that, you know, beingdisabled or being, blind is.
(11:34):
An identity and it, you know,it's just a part of me.
But other than that, Iwould be able to do things
in a manner that's probablydifferent, but being able
to accomplish the same tasksand that, I would read books
using braille and usingtechnology and using voice.
But at the end of the day, whatI would achieve is the same
(11:56):
as what, all other, studentsand faculty members would be
able to do here in the campus.
Jeffrey Anthony (12:03):
You know, this reminds me you brought
up, you play guitar at thebeginning, and I can think of
a, of a jazz trio where youhave a bass player, a piano
player, and a drummer, andthey each have their own.
identity.
but what happens is everyone'streated as an equal peer
and they work together tocreate something beautiful,
in the moment together.
And there's no sortof inequities in that
relationship there.
Dr. Sunggye Hong (12:22):
Exactly.
Yeah.
So that, that harmony, right,the balance would create.
And I think the third, leg, onthe balance is being innovative.
That is many of the things thatwe have done, for example, on
the day, of, about like 200 or300 years ago before Braille
was, devised the tactile booksthat were used for students
(12:47):
with visual impairments werecreated by using nail and then
string and then would just copythe shape of, alphabet letters.
And that would take cartsand carts of, wood plates
with strings and nails, andthen you would spend enormous
(13:09):
amount of time to create.
Letters for peoplewith visual impairments
to, to read textually.
And they had, we got the newand very innovative way of
doing things called brailleand yet substantially reduced
the space and the efforts thatit took, for people to solve
the problem and to make thesituation to be more equitable.
(13:33):
You know, 200, 300 years later,we're now dealing with what
we call refreshable brailledisplay, where electronic
information from internet,from your computer screen are
being sent to this device.
Then braille would be, createdinstantaneously and that
(13:55):
probably will not take a cardsof braille books to carry, but,
would still provide the same,experiences that otherwise the
people in the 18th and 19thcentury would've, appreciated.
So in that sense, I think beinginnovative and coming up with
ideas that are sparkling and uh,being able to solve problems,
(14:17):
I think is an important aspect.
Jeffrey Anthony (14:19):
Well, I wanna move on to our next question
here, which is, understandingour personal connection to
our work is often key torealizing its full impact.
Could you explainwhy this research is
Dr. Sunggye H (14:28):
important to you?
And I think it is importantto me personally, as a child,
going through a school for theblind, during my middle and high
school days, I was so exciteda lot about science stars,
black hole, and things thatare happening up on the sky.
And I asked to my teachers,to my friends that I'm
(14:51):
so interested in studyingfor planetary science.
And the answeralways has been no.
And they think thatit is not accessible.
They think a lot of it isvery visual that you will
not be able to contributeit for, say, collecting
data, making observations,creating hypothesis and so on.
(15:17):
So you are not a good candidatefor planetary science.
I think that wasvery, understandable
at the time, right.
All the reasons that theytold me were reasonable, so I
thought that was true, right?
So I said, okay, well if youthink that's not the right path
to go, then I would accept it.
Later when I had an opportunitytalking with, many capable
(15:42):
faculty members here at theuniversity, and, some of my
friends there at the PlanetaryScience, they said that
actually the data that is beingcollected from far, is numbers.
It is numeric data that wereceive, however, the conversion
is taken place with visualimages because that's what a
(16:03):
lot of audiences use, right?
And so for that matter, ifwe could change it to touch,
textual format, and if wecould change those numeric
data into sound and I shouldbe able to appreciate the same
experiences that my sightedplanetary scientist would have.
And we didn't know that.
(16:25):
And from my personal ownexperience, and probably
this applies not only to thescience, but many other areas
of studies that are going onhere at the university campus.
It is very easy for us to saythat, Hey, it is not accessible.
Hey, I don't think you'llbe able to participate
in it because many ofthe things are visual.
But flipping the coin andthinking about the idea,
(16:48):
that, it, uh, it is possiblefor us to change and
make it to be accessible.
So coming back to the word of,uh, you know, being accessible,
it is not convenience.
It is rights, right?
So in that sense,I was so excited.
For example, I conducted, aNational Science, Foundation,
sponsored, research projectsthat utilizes three D printing
(17:11):
materials and, convey theideas of geological features
of Mars to student withvisual impairments and use
that as a motivational effectfor their science education.
And I was so excited, notbecause I was, you know,
working for and about youknow, being convenient, but
(17:32):
rather I was, working for thepossibility of making sure
that the human rights of,being accessible is treated
and understood, equitably.
Jeffrey Anthony (17:43):
Well, you hinted at this already, but, so
I wanna bring it right back hereto the space we're sitting in,
why Why do you believethis research is important
to the community here atthe University of Arizona?
Dr. Sunggye Hong (17:52):
There are a couple of things that I
think it is very important.
One, like I said, since it'sa human rights, the university
has every responsibilityto, provide its, knowledge
and its research capacityto topics that may not
necessarily be most fashionable.
That's one thing.
But the second thing is, whileI'm talking about students
(18:15):
with visual impairments andtheir needs, the knowledge
of today's society is veryco-mingled and interrelated.
In that sense, I have a numberof students from the planetary
science departments who happento be sighted and told me.
That when they actually,observed some of the 3-D
(18:38):
printed models that we createfor the projects, they were
able to make sense of Marsand its features much better
than simply seeing it there.
I think the value of my workand research, that delves into
touch and sound is so that,we, As a university, and, as
(19:00):
as a powerhouse of researchwould be able to create a
vehicle where multi-sensoryapproaches being applicable to
many other types of researchin that I had an opportunity
to, uh, run a project togetherwith a faculty member in,
Engineering departments.
The idea was to create anobstacle detection for people
(19:24):
with visual impairments.
Later the faculty memberwas able to utilize
that very technology.
With his, graduate studentsfor research in the area
of autonomous, vehiclesand being able to use, the
system to detect, obstacles,around the vehicle.
And I think that really showsthe identity of these small
(19:47):
scale, but very, distinctiveand innovative type of
research ideas and knowledge.
It not only would just implyand affect, the group of,
students, in this case, studentswith visual impairments, but
in many cases, depending onthe way that it is implied
and applicable, that it beable to be used by many other,
(20:10):
society and community, hereat the university campus.
Jeffrey Anthony (20:15):
That was really fascinating.
while you've been doing thisresearch, has there been any
discoveries or outcomes thathave just taken you by surprise?
Dr. Sunggye Hong (20:22):
Well, surprise, I don't know is the
right word to describe it.
But one thing that we've learnedthat I think is very fascinating
is that indeed students withvisual impairments can become
very excited about science.
Again, going backto that expectation.
The public often wouldunderstand that science is
(20:45):
something that is so visualthat many students with
visual impairments would notbe able to have a lot of fun
and motivational experiences.
However, when we were providingthese, educational materials
and experiences to studentsin the manner that is,
(21:06):
fulfilling to their needs, inthis case sound, and touch.
They had become veryexcited about science.
So it is not just about asimple question of can you do
this or can you not do this?
It's more of like, whatis the way to motivate our
students in that sense?
(21:26):
With the sound and technology,I found that science can
become very exciting topicand that many students with
visual impairments wereso motivated for science
and science learning.
So I thought that was, ratherexciting than surprising, but
in a way that was the biggestfinding that I could come up
with on my research project.
Jeffrey Anthony (21:46):
If you could jump into a time machine and
observe the state of educationfor the visually impaired
and the state of assistivetechnology, what would you
love to see in this future?
Dr. Sunggye Hong (21:54):
Probably, among many needs that people
with visual impairments have,one of the two most distinctive
needs may be, to move aroundindependently and freely.
And then to read.
Independently and freely.
Mm-hmm.
And you would think that both ofthese questions are pretty easy.
(22:16):
Right.
But indeed it is not.
I was just had a meeting withone of my colleagues there
in the student union and,they had this kiosk where I
would have make selections.
On the screen, and we'rebeginning to see that
some of these kiosks areequipped with voices.
(22:39):
But nonetheless, I think,with various types of signs
and, materials and, colors,available for printing, often,
even with the most, advancedsmartphones, it is somewhat
difficult to read informationfrom different things.
(22:59):
I'm not saying that thereisn't a technology to try to
solve that problem, but I thinknone of them are perfect yet.
And then the second,like I said, the needs of
moving around is anotherimportant things, you know.
Things like, I'd like tojust wake up in the morning
and think like, oh, I'dlike to go to Mount Lemon.
(23:22):
And then, you know, if, ifyou are a driver, you would
be able to just pull outyour car key and drive off to
Mountain Lemon and have nicetwo or three hours of walk.
In my case, I probablyneed to call Uber or
Lyft, make a reservations.
try to, create a tactile mapof the location where I would
(23:44):
go so that I would be able tomake some understanding of the
area and how it would look.
And, I gotta come up with aplan for the way to come back.
'cause usually lift isnot available up the
top of Mount Lemon.
So would I ask a favor of myfriends to pick me up there or
would I decide not to go, right?
Mm-hmm.
So there's a lot of these,not just moving around, but
(24:07):
plans that are, relevant tothat particular question of,
I'd like to go to the top ofMountain Lemon this morning.
So hopefully there will besomething that, allows me.
To sort of experiences the sameway, like you do as a sighted
person that I'd like to gosomeplace this morning and,
(24:28):
freely you would just, do it.
so I don't know ifthe technology would
be a shape of an app.
You know, it can be like a robotguide doc, who knows, right?
Or it can be like, these,virtual glasses, that are
beginning to be seen onYouTube and places like that,
but whatever capacity may be,if there's a technology that
(24:50):
takes care of the orientationand mobility needs as well
as the needs of literacy.
For people with visualimpairments, I think that
would be a perfect solution.
And, my Christmas gift.
Jeffrey Anthony (25:03):
As we near the end of our conversation,
we like to ask our guests torecommend a book or a paper that
has been meaningful to them.
Could you share one withour audience and explain
how it has impacted you?
Dr. Sunggye Hong (25:13):
Sure.
The book that I'd like torecommend is Haben by Haben
Girma and Haben Girma is a,advocacy lawyer, graduate
from Harvard, and herself isa person with depth blindness.
So probably I'm notjust talking about, the
dedication that she put in.
And I'm not talking abouthow emotional can that be
(25:36):
to become a lawyer as aperson who is deaf blind.
But what I'm trying to sayis that the society, in a way
made a good progress, and,created these, Opportunities
where we see a lot of peoplecannot become contributing,
citizens in our society.
And she described a lot aboutthe needs of technology, the
(25:59):
importance of accessibility,the idea of being equitable.
And, her book, really gave alot of food of thoughts, that
I could, learn and especiallythinking about ways that
people with disabilities canbecome contributing citizens
into the society on top byunderstanding her description of
(26:22):
accessibility and the way thatshe thinks that, The disability
is being formed culturally.
that really gave me a lotof thoughts about ways that
I would be able to designmy own research, projects
in the future with seeingdisability and blindness.
As just an identity, not as adefining feature of a person.
(26:47):
So in that regards, Iwould recommend this book,
Haben, by Haben Girma asone of the, titles that,
the audience would, haveaccess to and, learn from it.
Jeffrey Anthony (26:57):
Well, Dr.
Hong, it's been a profoundpleasure delving into the
vital world of education forstudents with visual impairments
and learning about whatdrives you and your research.
Your commitment topromoting equal access.
Your passion for braille andliteracy development, and
your innovative approachesto assistive technology
are both inspiring andincredibly important.
We eagerly await.
Witnessing the continuedimpact of your transformative
(27:19):
work within this field.
And thank you listenersfor joining us today
in the Inquiry Oasis.
We hope our conversationwith with Dr.
Sunggye Hong, has inspiredyou as much as it has us.
Remember, we're back on thefirst and third Wednesdays
every month with freshinsights and conversations,
so be sure to tune in.
Until next time, keep yourcuriosity alive and remember,
knowledge is our oasis.
Welcome to the Inquiry Oasis, a
University of Arizona Collegeof Education and Podcast.
Here in the heart of theSonoran Desert, we bring
you conversations with ouresteemed faculty and staff
whose research impacts livesfrom Southern Arizona to the
far reaches of the globe.
Recording From the College ofEducation's Digital Innovation
and Learning Lab, we explorethe transformative power of
(00:24):
education in this border townwhere diverse cultures and ideas
converge, weaving a tapestryof innovation with compassion
and a sense of wonder.
Join us as we journey throughthe sands of curiosity,
unearthing insightsthat enrich and inspire.
So sit back and relaxas we invite you to dive
into the inquiry Oasis.
(00:46):
Thank you for tuninginto the Inquiry Oasis.
I'm your host, JeffreyAnthony, and today we're
honored to welcome Dr.
Sunggye Hong, an associateprofessor in the Department of
Disability and psychoeducationalstudies and David and Minnie
Myerson's, DistinguishedProfessor and Special Education
Unit Chair at the University ofArizona College of Education.
Dr.
Hong has dedicated his careerto promoting equal access
(01:08):
to educational opportunitiesfor students who are blind
or visually impaired with orwithout additional disabilities.
His research encompassesareas such as braille reading,
assistive technology, and theSTEM education of students
with visual impairments.
Whether it's through teachingclass, I'm gonna start over
there, whether it's throughteaching classes on braille
literacy development.
Nemeth code or devisinginstructional strategies
(01:31):
for students withvisual impairments.
Dr.
Hong's work is a testamentto his commitment to
inclusivity and accessibility.
And this brings us to thetopic of our discussion today.
We will delve into Dr.
Hong's extensive research andexplore how his efforts are
shaping the future of educationfor visually impaired students.
We'll also discuss hisperspectives on technology,
(01:52):
pedagogical strategies andthe importance of equal access
in educational settings.
So without further ado,let's embark on this
enlightening journey with Dr.
Hong here in the inquiry Oasis.
It's an honor to bespeaking with you, Dr.
Hong.
Dr. Sunggye Hong (02:04):
Hello, and nice to be here.
Jeffrey Anthony (02:06):
So before we delve into the intricacies of
your work in visual impairmenteducation, I was hoping you
could share with our audienceyour background and the
motivation that has guided thisremarkable path you are on.
Dr. Sunggye Hong (02:16):
I don't know if the remarkable,
that word is the right word,to, uh, describe who I am.
Mainly my work has been,you know, identified
probably to a degree andpromoted by my own needs.
To those of you who arelistening into, this program,
I'm a person who, is visuallyimpaired and I'm completely
(02:37):
blind and has been brailreader, for my entire life.
And so as a child withvisual impairments, I've
gone through schools andlearned things with touch.
And, and through that process,you know, I've thought a lot
about, like, I'm, giving thisquestion to myself like, what is
it to be blind in our society?
(02:59):
And that's probably is verycultural question to a degree.
But on, on top of that,the public usually would
approach, the idea of beingblind or being disabled as
very quote unquote pity or,uh, emotional, subjects.
And, As a child, I thought thatthere gotta be better way of
dealing with this than simplysaying like, oh, what a pity,
(03:22):
a, you know, blind personor, what can I help you with?
You know, that, thatkind of, of, approach.
as I was growing up, I washoping that, there would be
things that I would be ableto, take care of the needs of
my own as well as, studentsand children like who I am,
who, who can't see things,and, but in the meantime would
(03:45):
like to become a contributingcitizen in the society and
being able to maintain,quote unquote "normal" life.
And so that's, I guesswhat took me here.
And, probably spent themajority of my energy for,
researching, studying, and,you know, uh, working and,
(04:05):
meeting people on top of myneeds or my own personal,
needs as playing guitar asmy fun thing to do, right?
that's probablywhat, took me here.
Jeffrey Anthony (04:15):
So we're eager to hear about the
focus of your research.
What drives your investigationsinto braille reading assistive
technology, and the STEMeducation for students
with visual impairments?
Dr. Sunggye Hong (04:25):
Well, I've talked about the questions,
as we were to, talk questions,about like what is the tool to
make the student with visualimpairments to be productive and
contributing citizens into thecommunity and into the society.
There are some words, thatguided, my mind and one is to
(04:46):
be equitable, and that's becausewe as a, uh, you know, a person.
As a rights to be equal and,uh, being able to, do things
in a manner that's equitable.
However, what often peopletend to forget is the
needs of being different.
That is while the ideathat we'd like to read
(05:10):
books, Is same, right?
It's whether you are blindor whether you are sighted,
you are reading books.
Mm-hmm.
But then the way thatyou do it is different.
Some people would usebraille to do that, and
others would use print toaccomplish the same task.
The things that, you mentionedthat is Braille code, assistive
(05:35):
technology and STEM educationare the tools to make that
process of being different,to be more accessible, meaning
that, by utilizing technology,I would be able to do things
that otherwise I wouldn't beable to do or with less efforts.
For example, I often quotes thatwhen I was a, uh, a student at,
(05:58):
uh, college, a while ago, about,uh, twenty- seven, eight years
ago, the way that I would, getan article out of a journal,
that was, quoted on my syllabuswould be to go to the library,
talk to the librarian, askingthe person to help me to find
(06:18):
the shelf on the fourth floor.
Grab the journal title.
Come down to, the groundfloor, go to the copy room
and ask someone to helpme to make a copy of that.
'cause often if, even if I weretrying to do it, there's some
edges that are cut off and that,so that wouldn't work well.
So then I would bring that,copied, journal article back
(06:41):
to the Disability ResourceCenter and find a volunteer to
record it on a, tape player.
And then that probablywould take another two
or three days before Iwould have access to it.
So I would receive that,uh, cassette tape and come
back and listen to it.
An overall process probablywill take easy, you know, a
week or two weeks, whereastoday, if I were given a
(07:04):
title of a journal article,I would just go search it.
And, uh, being able to pullit up, open PDF, and read
it, and that probably wouldtake about two minutes.
So it really, is thatthose three tools, the
technology, you know, thebraille and then the STEM.
Probably would, uh, serveas a tool that, uh, make
(07:27):
myself and, many people withvisual impairments and many
people who are disabled tobe, better, to be included
in this society in a mannerthat's much more, exciting
and that's much more, eithersmooth than say without it.
Jeffrey Anthony (07:45):
Well this is really fascinating to hear,
'cause what I hear there isthat these technologies are
building capacities for more,interactions between, people
and scholarship and alsolearning and experiencing
and sharing knowledge.
would that be an accurate.
description.
Dr. Sunggye Hong (07:56):
I think you did a nice job of, uh,
summarizing the contexthere, because when I
say being different, thepeople tend to forget that.
There gotta be a way for youto do things in a certain way,
but that definitely is nottrue in many instances and
especially in our society wherethere are a lot of views and
a lot of ways doing things.
(08:17):
Things like multi-sensoryapproach where you would
utilize every possibleway of gaining access to
things is very important.
In that I think what youjust described is the
concept of accessibility.
Where it's not just blindpeople, it's not just, uh,
people with disabilities to havethe rights to be accessible.
(08:39):
Right.
the things can be different,but in a way that we,
should be able to enjoy anexperience where all the things
that we do is accessible.
And in that, I would like tobring a, quote, there is an
author that I, think is veryimpactable in the at, um, uh,
(09:00):
Haben Girma, discussed thatAccessibility is not just
convenient, it is a humanright, and I cannot agree
more on her, words than that.
It really, sets the tone,create an experiences that's
equitable for many people.
So in that we're achievingan experience where
(09:21):
the things that we do.
Although, for the same taskwould be different, that the
task itself is accessible andthat whether you're blind,
whether you are not, whetheryou're disabled, whether
you're not, you should beable to, achieve the task,
the goal, the concepts,in a manner, um, that is
accessible to everyone.
(09:43):
And I think that really is what,um, drove my, research in that
as a result, you know, I try tocreate, research projects where
students with visual impairmentsare able to take part in
science and technology and STEMeducation equitably with others.
(10:05):
So there are different toolsthat we use in the process.
We've used mentorshipas an important way of,
making the students tobe excited about STEM.
We also utilized, various,educational technology,
such things as 3-D printers,and, sound as a way for
(10:26):
these students to access,different sector and
types of, STEM education.
But I think what is mostimportant that I learned from
the process is both for thepublic and the students to
understand the concept that highexpectations becomes the key.
In other words, it has beenopen coded that people with
(10:47):
visual impairments, theemployment rates, for them,
Is very, low compared to,the rest of the population.
it is usually coded that,only 30% or so of people with
visual impairments are workingcompetitively in job markets.
And I think that's a verydiscouraging to a degree.
And I think what really makes,the chain, to be, to break
(11:12):
is so that both, People withvision impairments and then
the public would have highexpectations so that it is
not just that the public wouldfeel as if whatever the person
with disabilities do thingsand they would see it as, uh,
you know, pity and emotional.
But it is that, you know, beingdisabled or being, blind is.
(11:34):
An identity and it, you know,it's just a part of me.
But other than that, Iwould be able to do things
in a manner that's probablydifferent, but being able
to accomplish the same tasksand that, I would read books
using braille and usingtechnology and using voice.
But at the end of the day, whatI would achieve is the same
(11:56):
as what, all other, studentsand faculty members would be
able to do here in the campus.
Jeffrey Anthony (12:03):
You know, this reminds me you brought
up, you play guitar at thebeginning, and I can think of
a, of a jazz trio where youhave a bass player, a piano
player, and a drummer, andthey each have their own.
identity.
but what happens is everyone'streated as an equal peer
and they work together tocreate something beautiful,
in the moment together.
And there's no sortof inequities in that
relationship there.
Dr. Sunggye Hong (12:22):
Exactly.
Yeah.
So that, that harmony, right,the balance would create.
And I think the third, leg, onthe balance is being innovative.
That is many of the things thatwe have done, for example, on
the day, of, about like 200 or300 years ago before Braille
was, devised the tactile booksthat were used for students
(12:47):
with visual impairments werecreated by using nail and then
string and then would just copythe shape of, alphabet letters.
And that would take cartsand carts of, wood plates
with strings and nails, andthen you would spend enormous
(13:09):
amount of time to create.
Letters for peoplewith visual impairments
to, to read textually.
And they had, we got the newand very innovative way of
doing things called brailleand yet substantially reduced
the space and the efforts thatit took, for people to solve
the problem and to make thesituation to be more equitable.
(13:33):
You know, 200, 300 years later,we're now dealing with what
we call refreshable brailledisplay, where electronic
information from internet,from your computer screen are
being sent to this device.
Then braille would be, createdinstantaneously and that
(13:55):
probably will not take a cardsof braille books to carry, but,
would still provide the same,experiences that otherwise the
people in the 18th and 19thcentury would've, appreciated.
So in that sense, I think beinginnovative and coming up with
ideas that are sparkling and uh,being able to solve problems,
(14:17):
I think is an important aspect.
Jeffrey Anthony (14:19):
Well, I wanna move on to our next question
here, which is, understandingour personal connection to
our work is often key torealizing its full impact.
Could you explainwhy this research is
Dr. Sunggye H (14:28):
important to you?
And I think it is importantto me personally, as a child,
going through a school for theblind, during my middle and high
school days, I was so exciteda lot about science stars,
black hole, and things thatare happening up on the sky.
And I asked to my teachers,to my friends that I'm
(14:51):
so interested in studyingfor planetary science.
And the answeralways has been no.
And they think thatit is not accessible.
They think a lot of it isvery visual that you will
not be able to contributeit for, say, collecting
data, making observations,creating hypothesis and so on.
(15:17):
So you are not a good candidatefor planetary science.
I think that wasvery, understandable
at the time, right.
All the reasons that theytold me were reasonable, so I
thought that was true, right?
So I said, okay, well if youthink that's not the right path
to go, then I would accept it.
Later when I had an opportunitytalking with, many capable
(15:42):
faculty members here at theuniversity, and, some of my
friends there at the PlanetaryScience, they said that
actually the data that is beingcollected from far, is numbers.
It is numeric data that wereceive, however, the conversion
is taken place with visualimages because that's what a
(16:03):
lot of audiences use, right?
And so for that matter, ifwe could change it to touch,
textual format, and if wecould change those numeric
data into sound and I shouldbe able to appreciate the same
experiences that my sightedplanetary scientist would have.
And we didn't know that.
(16:25):
And from my personal ownexperience, and probably
this applies not only to thescience, but many other areas
of studies that are going onhere at the university campus.
It is very easy for us to saythat, Hey, it is not accessible.
Hey, I don't think you'llbe able to participate
in it because many ofthe things are visual.
But flipping the coin andthinking about the idea,
(16:48):
that, it, uh, it is possiblefor us to change and
make it to be accessible.
So coming back to the word of,uh, you know, being accessible,
it is not convenience.
It is rights, right?
So in that sense,I was so excited.
For example, I conducted, aNational Science, Foundation,
sponsored, research projectsthat utilizes three D printing
(17:11):
materials and, convey theideas of geological features
of Mars to student withvisual impairments and use
that as a motivational effectfor their science education.
And I was so excited, notbecause I was, you know,
working for and about youknow, being convenient, but
(17:32):
rather I was, working for thepossibility of making sure
that the human rights of,being accessible is treated
and understood, equitably.
Jeffrey Anthony (17:43):
Well, you hinted at this already, but, so
I wanna bring it right back hereto the space we're sitting in,
why Why do you believethis research is important
to the community here atthe University of Arizona?
Dr. Sunggye Hong (17:52):
There are a couple of things that I
think it is very important.
One, like I said, since it'sa human rights, the university
has every responsibilityto, provide its, knowledge
and its research capacityto topics that may not
necessarily be most fashionable.
That's one thing.
But the second thing is, whileI'm talking about students
(18:15):
with visual impairments andtheir needs, the knowledge
of today's society is veryco-mingled and interrelated.
In that sense, I have a numberof students from the planetary
science departments who happento be sighted and told me.
That when they actually,observed some of the 3-D
(18:38):
printed models that we createfor the projects, they were
able to make sense of Marsand its features much better
than simply seeing it there.
I think the value of my workand research, that delves into
touch and sound is so that,we, As a university, and, as
(19:00):
as a powerhouse of researchwould be able to create a
vehicle where multi-sensoryapproaches being applicable to
many other types of researchin that I had an opportunity
to, uh, run a project togetherwith a faculty member in,
Engineering departments.
The idea was to create anobstacle detection for people
(19:24):
with visual impairments.
Later the faculty memberwas able to utilize
that very technology.
With his, graduate studentsfor research in the area
of autonomous, vehiclesand being able to use, the
system to detect, obstacles,around the vehicle.
And I think that really showsthe identity of these small
(19:47):
scale, but very, distinctiveand innovative type of
research ideas and knowledge.
It not only would just implyand affect, the group of,
students, in this case, studentswith visual impairments, but
in many cases, depending onthe way that it is implied
and applicable, that it beable to be used by many other,
(20:10):
society and community, hereat the university campus.
Jeffrey Anthony (20:15):
That was really fascinating.
while you've been doing thisresearch, has there been any
discoveries or outcomes thathave just taken you by surprise?
Dr. Sunggye Hong (20:22):
Well, surprise, I don't know is the
right word to describe it.
But one thing that we've learnedthat I think is very fascinating
is that indeed students withvisual impairments can become
very excited about science.
Again, going backto that expectation.
The public often wouldunderstand that science is
(20:45):
something that is so visualthat many students with
visual impairments would notbe able to have a lot of fun
and motivational experiences.
However, when we were providingthese, educational materials
and experiences to studentsin the manner that is,
(21:06):
fulfilling to their needs, inthis case sound, and touch.
They had become veryexcited about science.
So it is not just about asimple question of can you do
this or can you not do this?
It's more of like, whatis the way to motivate our
students in that sense?
(21:26):
With the sound and technology,I found that science can
become very exciting topicand that many students with
visual impairments wereso motivated for science
and science learning.
So I thought that was, ratherexciting than surprising, but
in a way that was the biggestfinding that I could come up
with on my research project.
Jeffrey Anthony (21:46):
If you could jump into a time machine and
observe the state of educationfor the visually impaired
and the state of assistivetechnology, what would you
love to see in this future?
Dr. Sunggye Hong (21:54):
Probably, among many needs that people
with visual impairments have,one of the two most distinctive
needs may be, to move aroundindependently and freely.
And then to read.
Independently and freely.
Mm-hmm.
And you would think that both ofthese questions are pretty easy.
(22:16):
Right.
But indeed it is not.
I was just had a meeting withone of my colleagues there
in the student union and,they had this kiosk where I
would have make selections.
On the screen, and we'rebeginning to see that
some of these kiosks areequipped with voices.
(22:39):
But nonetheless, I think,with various types of signs
and, materials and, colors,available for printing, often,
even with the most, advancedsmartphones, it is somewhat
difficult to read informationfrom different things.
(22:59):
I'm not saying that thereisn't a technology to try to
solve that problem, but I thinknone of them are perfect yet.
And then the second,like I said, the needs of
moving around is anotherimportant things, you know.
Things like, I'd like tojust wake up in the morning
and think like, oh, I'dlike to go to Mount Lemon.
(23:22):
And then, you know, if, ifyou are a driver, you would
be able to just pull outyour car key and drive off to
Mountain Lemon and have nicetwo or three hours of walk.
In my case, I probablyneed to call Uber or
Lyft, make a reservations.
try to, create a tactile mapof the location where I would
(23:44):
go so that I would be able tomake some understanding of the
area and how it would look.
And, I gotta come up with aplan for the way to come back.
'cause usually lift isnot available up the
top of Mount Lemon.
So would I ask a favor of myfriends to pick me up there or
would I decide not to go, right?
Mm-hmm.
So there's a lot of these,not just moving around, but
(24:07):
plans that are, relevant tothat particular question of,
I'd like to go to the top ofMountain Lemon this morning.
So hopefully there will besomething that, allows me.
To sort of experiences the sameway, like you do as a sighted
person that I'd like to gosomeplace this morning and,
(24:28):
freely you would just, do it.
so I don't know ifthe technology would
be a shape of an app.
You know, it can be like a robotguide doc, who knows, right?
Or it can be like, these,virtual glasses, that are
beginning to be seen onYouTube and places like that,
but whatever capacity may be,if there's a technology that
(24:50):
takes care of the orientationand mobility needs as well
as the needs of literacy.
For people with visualimpairments, I think that
would be a perfect solution.
And, my Christmas gift.
Jeffrey Anthony (25:03):
As we near the end of our conversation,
we like to ask our guests torecommend a book or a paper that
has been meaningful to them.
Could you share one withour audience and explain
how it has impacted you?
Dr. Sunggye Hong (25:13):
Sure.
The book that I'd like torecommend is Haben by Haben
Girma and Haben Girma is a,advocacy lawyer, graduate
from Harvard, and herself isa person with depth blindness.
So probably I'm notjust talking about, the
dedication that she put in.
And I'm not talking abouthow emotional can that be
(25:36):
to become a lawyer as aperson who is deaf blind.
But what I'm trying to sayis that the society, in a way
made a good progress, and,created these, Opportunities
where we see a lot of peoplecannot become contributing,
citizens in our society.
And she described a lot aboutthe needs of technology, the
(25:59):
importance of accessibility,the idea of being equitable.
And, her book, really gave alot of food of thoughts, that
I could, learn and especiallythinking about ways that
people with disabilities canbecome contributing citizens
into the society on top byunderstanding her description of
(26:22):
accessibility and the way thatshe thinks that, The disability
is being formed culturally.
that really gave me a lotof thoughts about ways that
I would be able to designmy own research, projects
in the future with seeingdisability and blindness.
As just an identity, not as adefining feature of a person.
(26:47):
So in that regards, Iwould recommend this book,
Haben, by Haben Girma asone of the, titles that,
the audience would, haveaccess to and, learn from it.
Jeffrey Anthony (26:57):
Well, Dr.
Hong, it's been a profoundpleasure delving into the
vital world of education forstudents with visual impairments
and learning about whatdrives you and your research.
Your commitment topromoting equal access.
Your passion for braille andliteracy development, and
your innovative approachesto assistive technology
are both inspiring andincredibly important.
We eagerly await.
Witnessing the continuedimpact of your transformative
(27:19):
work within this field.
And thank you listenersfor joining us today
in the Inquiry Oasis.
We hope our conversationwith with Dr.
Sunggye Hong, has inspiredyou as much as it has us.
Remember, we're back on thefirst and third Wednesdays
every month with freshinsights and conversations,
so be sure to tune in.
Until next time, keep yourcuriosity alive and remember,
knowledge is our oasis.
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