February 21, 2025 • 21 mins
This is a "double scoop" episode which originally published in March of 2023. The insights from Patty DaSilva are still pretty solid. Enjoy!
The discussion surrounding the necessity of SAT and ACT scores for college admissions is both pertinent and evolving. School Counselor Patty DaSilva elucidates the varying requirements of colleges and universities, highlighting the distinction between test-optional and test-blind policies. The episode delves into the comparative merits of the SAT and ACT, emphasizing that individual student strengths should guide the choice between the two. Ultimately, our dialogue aims to equip families with the necessary insights to navigate the college admissions landscape effectively, ensuring that students are well-prepared for their future academic endeavors.
Guest: School Counseling Supervisor Patty DaSilva
Useful links from the podcast:
- The ACT Test for Students | ACT
- SAT Dates and Deadlines – SAT Suite | College Board
- CCSD School Counseling Department
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https://the-inside-scoop.captivate.fm/
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http://www.youtube.com/@TheRealCobbSchools
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Cobb Sports Podcast:
https://cobb-sports.captivate.fm/episodes
The Cobb County School District:
https://www.cobbk12.org
Takeaways:
- The necessity of SAT and ACT scores varies significantly based on the specific college or university a student aspires to attend, which necessitates thorough research.
- Standardized tests are not universally required, and understanding terms like 'test optional' and 'test blind' is crucial for students and families.
- It is advisable for students to take the SAT or ACT unless they are certain of their college choices, as taking the tests can provide options later.
- The distinction between the SAT and ACT lies in their structure and approach; the SAT emphasizes critical thinking while the ACT focuses on straightforward problem-solving.
- Families should be aware that students eligible for free or reduced lunch can take each standardized test twice for free, which can alleviate financial burdens.
- The role of parents in the college application process should be supportive, allowing students to take the lead while providing necessary assistance and guidance.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Acts and SATs, are they evenneeded anymore?
That's the topic for thisedition of the Inside Scoop.
Hello and welcome back toanother episode of the Inside Scoop.
I'm David Owen.
Over the past few years,things have changed and changed a
lot.
At one point it was announcedthat many colleges and universities
(00:21):
were no longer requiringstandardized test scores for admission.
Here to give us the scoop onthe current state of things in the
world of admissions is thehigh school and middle school counseling
consultant, Patty Da Silva.
Welcome to the podcast, Patty.
Hi.
Thanks for having me.
A lot of the colleges anduniversities are like making it variable
(00:41):
as to whether you are theyneed it anymore.
First question out of the gate.
I mean, I feel like everythingthat has to do with SAT and ACT isn't
a very clear cut answer.
Are they needed?
Really a lot of that has to dowith the college or university that
a student is interested in.
(01:02):
You may see the words testoptional, you might see where it's
test blind.
But really all that means isare they going to look at your scores
if you choose to take it?
So it very much depends onwhere you want to go?
Very much so.
Okay.
So unless a student knowsalready where they want to go, like
(01:25):
an exhaustive list, theyprobably should take it.
Does that.
It doesn't hurt to take it.
So I know there's manystudents that just, they don't like
testing, think they don't dowell at might cause just some stress
or some anxiety.
But there's really no harm intaking it because you have a choice
of whether you want to sendthe scores or not.
(01:47):
Oh, that's a good point.
Yeah.
There is an option whileyou're signing up for the test to
automatically send scores,which is typically best used the
closer you're getting tograduation and application deadlines.
But really there's no harm intaking the test.
See how you do, see if yourscores would help and kind of make
that decision from there.
(02:07):
See if the college requires itand make the decision from there.
Is one test better?
I even heard of a competitive test.
I don't know if it's on theprofessional radar yet or not, but
I think it's called theClassical learning test, the CLTs
I guess they'll call them.
Is one test better than the other?
(02:30):
So the CLTs I am not familiarwith, but that is very interesting
to hear and I'm not surprisedbecause there's always a discussion
of monopolizing.
Right.
Like the sat.
The college board has takenover everything and the ACT is always
trying to catch up.
So I wouldn't be surprised ifthere's another entity coming in
(02:50):
trying to be a part of that.
But really, as of.
Or when it comes to SAT andact, there's really not one that's
better than the other.
It has to do with which onebetter suits the student.
They are two very different tests.
I was going to say, what isthat difference between the ACT and
(03:11):
the sat?
So the ACT is much morestraightforward questions.
So if they ask a question,what is 2 times 2?
It equals 4.
So if you see 4 as the answer,you answer it and move on.
This does cause the ACT to bemuch more fast paced.
That's why many students willfind they don't have enough time,
but they want you to justanswer it and move on.
(03:32):
Answer it and move on.
Whereas the SAT is morecritical thinking, digging in between
answers.
If they ask you 2 times 2,you're probably missing a step in
there somewhere.
It's probably 2x +2 orsomething that's not necessarily
as straightforward.
So they give you more time perquestion to allow you to think about
(03:54):
it, use those criticalthinking skills and really put your
best thought into an answerbefore you move on to the next one.
Would it be fair tocharacterize the SATs as trickier?
Yeah, I mean, I think that's.
That's very fair.
But it's also interestingbecause there's.
There's almost like a regionalalignment per se.
(04:16):
A preference.
Yes, in a way.
So Georgia for many years hastended towards the College Board
and SAT side, which is, youknow, shown through how the state
pays for all 10th graders totake the PS.
And so we like to have 8th and9th graders take it to prep for it
in 10th grade.
In 11th grade is when theNational Merit Qualifying comes in,
(04:40):
which is only done through thePSAT and the sat.
Whereas the act.
There's other states that,like Alabama, for example, they tend
to be very much an ACT state.
And they might do a pre ACTduring the day as we do PSAT for
our students.
So I think the message to pullfrom that is the state of Georgia
(05:04):
is full of more criticalthinkers than the state of maybe
not.
Maybe not.
I shouldn't throw shade on ourneighbors to the west.
I wish there was more criticalthinking skills nationwide, much
less in our state.
That's a whole different podcast.
So, I mean, this time of yearfeels like the SATs and ACT announcements
(05:27):
go out and stuff.
Is this the time of year thatparents should be looking for those
tests or does it matter?
So spring does tend to Betesting season.
I think the kind of age oldwisdom was test in the end of your
junior year.
(05:48):
Really the best time to starttesting is when a student is at least
halfway done with algebra 2.
So that could come in 10th grade.
There's some that are reallyaccelerated in math that could come
in ninth grade.
But the majority of the mathon these two tests tends to go not
much more upwards than algebra 2.
(06:10):
So that's really the point todetermine when a student should start
testing, to just be bestprepared for the content that's on
the test.
Okay.
And you can take the testseveral times, can't you?
Sure.
I mean, it costs money to takeit, right?
That is a download.
Do you know how much?
Oh man, I have not been in itlong enough.
(06:33):
It used to be about $50.
Okay.
Per test.
But that could have gone up.
Everything else has gone up.
Yes, very much so.
I will say it is importantthat any families who receive free
or reduced lunch, that theyknow they can take each SAT and act
twice for free as long as theytalk to their school counselor about
(06:55):
a waiver of that test.
Yeah.
Get it coordinated throughyour counselor.
That's a very important pieceof it.
And I know there's a lot ofstigma about whether or not families
want free and reduced lunch,but I always encourage it because
not only can you do thesetests for free, but there's even
college application fees laterif you test for free, that it can
waive those fees as well.
(07:16):
Oh, thinking ahead.
That's critical thinking.
That's awesome.
I took the SAT back in high school.
So is test prep necessary?
I mean, can you really preparefor one of these tests as I perceive
it?
At least it seems like it'sattempting to assess what you have
(07:37):
learned in all of yourschooling, K through 12.
Right.
You'd be right about that.
So how far can test prepactually take you?
So you're definitely rightthat the content on the test really
should be what you've learnedmostly in high school.
Some of it might dip intomiddle, but it's really going to
be mostly high school content.
Test prep.
(07:59):
It's not going to teach you anything.
It may go back and review algebra.
So if it's been three yearssince you've taken algebra, it might
be helpful to review some ofthose concepts.
But really what test prep doesis it just helps a student feel comfortable
in the test environment.
So they'll practice timing,they'll practice kind of organizing
their thoughts, they'll practice.
(08:20):
Even the ACT can be easy.
Medium hard questions.
So some of the test prep maysuggest starting at the end of a
section to do the hard onesand then work backwards.
But it's really just a matterof comfort and going into the testing
center that day and not justlike clamming up.
And so it's not as much aboutthe test itself.
(08:40):
It's about how to take astandardized test.
Is that okay?
All right.
And because the two tests areso different, the Act 1, the Prep
probably will be more aboutthe timing of it and, you know, keeping
a watch with you so that youcan see how much time you're spending
per question.
You don't spend too much timeper question, but it's really just
(09:01):
the how the test works and thecomfort of being in that environment
and just feeling your bestself and feeling most confident going
into that test and, you know,giving it your best shot, like keeping.
A healthy pressure on you tokeep moving, but don't get super
anxious about it.
Right, right.
So what are.
I know that the ACT and SATshave different scoring ranges.
(09:26):
What's a good score on each of them?
So again, going back to kindof what I said at the beginning,
there's not really a concreteanswer for much of when it comes
down to sat, ACT and reallycollege admissions pieces at all.
There's not a good or badscore per se.
It really comes down to thecollege or university that a student
(09:49):
is interested in.
Another piece of this arescholarship organizations, when we
talk about that test optionalpiece, some scholarships that might
be the only way that they candetermine who is the best selection.
But there's not a good score.
I always suggest students givethemselves a goal, but a realistic
(10:09):
goal of what they want toscore based on colleges that are
a good fit for them overall.
We always want students tohave the safety schools.
Right.
We also always want them tohave their dream schools, but it's
those middle of the road,those range schools, those target
schools.
What do they require of a student?
And if that, that's a schoolthat fits your needs, that's a good
(10:31):
goal to set for yourself.
Instead of reaching way toohigh and then just feeling defeated
every time you don't get that score.
And always try to considermore than just one school, because
you lose that one, you'redevastated, and then you're set back
to ground zero again.
A whole nother podcast.
We could talk about collegeadmissions for days, but yes, do
(10:53):
not settle on just one school.
Reach, range and safety iswhat we call them.
Reach, range and safety,always reach high, stay within your
range, and then also have asafe Fallback.
Always got a backup plan.
All right, so the, the olddays, they used to have an essay
section on the sat.
(11:14):
I don't know.
Did they have it on the act?
They did.
Okay, how, how are those done nowadays?
Are they, do they still have them?
So the SAT was redesigned manyyears ago, pre Covid even, and they
don't have a specific essay section.
They kind of took the essayinto the English language arts grammar.
(11:38):
They embedded it in there.
The ACT does still have anessay section.
It's a random topic given witha certain timetable and kind of modern
research is showing thatcolleges aren't looking at that as
heavily anymore.
I would say it's worth it todo it once just so it's kind of done.
(12:00):
And if you do encounter acollege that wants to see those scores,
at least you have it done with.
But most colleges anduniversities agree that a timed written
essay is not going to showyour best work.
Which of course there'sargument of that with any timed assessment.
But there are benefits to time.
Standardized test.
But the essay piece, manycolleges that want to see the written
(12:24):
aspect of it, if that's, youknow, an integral part of their program,
they might request a writtenassignment you've done while you're
in a high school.
Maybe it's a topic you'vechosen, maybe it's one you've done
really well on.
It's a way of you showcasingyourself that's not in a here's a
random topic you might knownothing about.
Give me an argument in a 30minute time period.
And it probably is morereflective of your cognitive abilities.
(12:48):
I would think because it'sless about anxiety and last minute
rush.
It might actually be cateringon the timed essays.
Might be catering more to the procrastinators.
Right, right.
I mean, I always did fine onthe timed essays because it was like
a brain dump.
But yeah, I don't think it'sfor most high school students, I
(13:08):
don't think it's going to be agreat indicator of whether you can
write well when you can writein just a short period of time.
Because in college, inuniversities, that's not generally
something that's going to belooked at or assessed is that if
you can write quickly andwell, it's going to be just your
overall writing in general.
(13:31):
So I think you kind of touchedon this earlier.
How many times can or should astudent take the ACT or sat so.
They can take it Many times.
Tests do have the SAT and ACTdo have a maximum amount of times
that you can take it but mostof the research shows that a plateau
(13:52):
tends to happen after like thethird or fourth test.
So usually you test once,you're kind of just getting your
feet wet, seeing what the testlooks like, just getting acclimated
to the test environment.
The second time, scores dotend to go up whether or not you
have test prep, just becauseyou're prepared for what that test
is going to ask you.
Well, the first test was yourprep, right?
(14:13):
Right.
Basically it could be.
And then the third and fourthtime there doesn't tend to be much
more escalation in points.
There's not big gaps thatresearch has seen.
So conventional wisdom isusually two to three times is probably
the average of what studentshow many times they will take the
(14:35):
time.
And that's counting the PSATor that's in addition to.
That would be in addition to.
So the psat, although similarto the sat, is still not going to
be the exact same test becauseit is just preliminary.
It helps to see what thetesting environment is going to be
like.
Especially like I said here inCobb and In Georgia in 10th grade,
(14:58):
the test is purchased for allstudents so they have that opportunity
to be in a secured testingenvironment that would be similar
to the rest of them, but theyare still two very different tests.
Okay, now the last question isone that I think may impact a lot
(15:22):
of families and that is howengaged, involved should parents
be in their student'sapplication process and the testing
process and so forth.
Can you give us some insightson what the ideal would be in a family
(15:42):
environment?
The ideal answer would be thatfamilies, parents, guardians that
they serve as support.
So really the students shouldtake the lead on almost anything
when it comes to high school.
So by the time they reach 9th,maybe 10th grade, they should be
the ones kind of leading the charge.
(16:04):
So if they are registering forthe SAT or act, if there's not a
very clear cut website, thenGoogling it usually brings up the
best way to get to it.
I'll say.
They got no excuse nowadays, right?
No, I don't think so.
But most schools and mostcounseling offices do have the websites
that they can click on.
But it's a, the first timethey take either test, it's a pretty
(16:27):
lengthy application, butbecause there's also an interest
inventory that's included inthere and the SAT and ACT will send
potential career options basedon that interest inventory.
And they might even ask what astudent is looking for in a college
or university.
And although families do knowtheir students pretty well, there's
(16:47):
just no reason for them to dothat application when it's asking
those kinds of individualizedto this student questions.
So my suggestion in an idealworld would be that the parent or
the guardian or the family sitwith the student, sit down together
to do it.
So that if the student's doingthe application and they have questions,
(17:07):
then you're right there toanswer it.
But then also at the end, whenpayment comes in, if that's where
a family is going to help,then you're there, ready, you can
offer the payment.
And then also it just reallyhelps to prepare the students.
If they're taking the SAT andact to go to college, then they're
going to need to know how todo things on their own and the parents
(17:28):
are always going to be thereto support.
So it's good to just kind ofstart in that, you know, vein of,
you know, how to operate assoon as possible.
You know, let them do theapplication, let them ask questions.
It's not as easy as, oh, well,students are so busy with everything.
Well, parents are busy with alot of things too, so work together.
(17:52):
It's sometimes it's harder tosit back though, right?
As a parent, it is.
But I get what you're saying.
I think the listeners willappreciate that too.
And if you're about to sendyour student off to live life somewhat
alone, they need to starttaking those reins.
And having parents nearby,that's awesome.
Absolutely.
(18:13):
Let them fail while you'renearby so that when it's time for
them to actually go,everything is cool and you can rest
assured they know what they're.
Doing and they also know thatyou're always there.
So, I mean, maybe it's amoment that the parent can sit there
and read an email that they'vebeen sitting in their inbox for a
while that they haven't hadthe time to do while the student's
(18:35):
answering their interest inventory.
And then if the student hasquestions, they're there to help.
And then the test day too.
So here's the other thing thatwe've come across.
When the parents do too much,the families do too much for the
students.
Then they show up for test day unprepared.
They give this lovely testticket that is on one page detailed
(18:57):
with exactly what you need to bring.
But every single time thattest is offered, there is a photo
ID that's forgotten or thereis a pencil that is forgotten or
a calculator.
So the more ownership astudent takes of the registration,
the more they'll take ofgetting prepared for test day.
(19:19):
And I really think the morethey'll take doing the actual test
and feeling confident goinginto it as opposed to scrambling
that morning and saying, mom,dad, did you get all my stuff ready?
Like where's my pencil?
It's taking ownership, but itreally does set them up for success
in the future and kind of whatthey're gonna encounter when they
(19:40):
leave the nest.
And like you said, beginningearly in the high school years, maybe
second year of high school, asa parent, it's a good idea to start
letting them totally spreadtheir wings, do their thing.
Yeah, I mean you're alwaysthere, you know, they're accepting
it.
The only caveat I would say,and you correct me if I'm wrong.
(20:02):
But the fafsa, the financialthing, how engaged should the parent
be on that?
I mean there's a studentsection for that too.
So I mean really like I thinkthe many post secondary organizations
and really even just secondaryschools are trying very hard to encourage
(20:25):
the students to take ownershipand you know, allow the parents to
still be a part of it.
Because that's what we want.
We want to be a part of ourkids lives, but we also need to prepare
them for what the world'sgoing to show them, what they're
going to encounter.
But the FAFSA has a studentpiece where the student can complete
their part.
It's like step one and thenstep two is the parent part.
(20:46):
So the student can even startthe FAFSA and basically hand it off
to the parent.
Or again, in an ideal world,they can sit down together and do
it.
Well, this has been incrediblyenlightening and I really appreciate
you coming by and helping ourlisteners understand what some of
the advantages and pitfallsare in the whole process.
(21:08):
Testing obviously is just apart of the admissions process, but
it sure is a huge part.
Right?
So listeners check out thoseshow notes for some helpful links
and make sure you like, followand subscribe to this podcast so
you don't miss this out.
You might also want toconsider sending it to a friend.
Thank you for listening tothis edition of the Inside Scoop,
(21:30):
a podcast produced by the CobbCounty School.
Acts and SATs, are they evenneeded anymore?
That's the topic for thisedition of the Inside Scoop.
Hello and welcome back toanother episode of the Inside Scoop.
I'm David Owen.
Over the past few years,things have changed and changed a
lot.
At one point it was announcedthat many colleges and universities
(00:21):
were no longer requiringstandardized test scores for admission.
Here to give us the scoop onthe current state of things in the
world of admissions is thehigh school and middle school counseling
consultant, Patty Da Silva.
Welcome to the podcast, Patty.
Hi.
Thanks for having me.
A lot of the colleges anduniversities are like making it variable
(00:41):
as to whether you are theyneed it anymore.
First question out of the gate.
I mean, I feel like everythingthat has to do with SAT and ACT isn't
a very clear cut answer.
Are they needed?
Really a lot of that has to dowith the college or university that
a student is interested in.
(01:02):
You may see the words testoptional, you might see where it's
test blind.
But really all that means isare they going to look at your scores
if you choose to take it?
So it very much depends onwhere you want to go?
Very much so.
Okay.
So unless a student knowsalready where they want to go, like
(01:25):
an exhaustive list, theyprobably should take it.
Does that.
It doesn't hurt to take it.
So I know there's manystudents that just, they don't like
testing, think they don't dowell at might cause just some stress
or some anxiety.
But there's really no harm intaking it because you have a choice
of whether you want to sendthe scores or not.
(01:47):
Oh, that's a good point.
Yeah.
There is an option whileyou're signing up for the test to
automatically send scores,which is typically best used the
closer you're getting tograduation and application deadlines.
But really there's no harm intaking the test.
See how you do, see if yourscores would help and kind of make
that decision from there.
(02:07):
See if the college requires itand make the decision from there.
Is one test better?
I even heard of a competitive test.
I don't know if it's on theprofessional radar yet or not, but
I think it's called theClassical learning test, the CLTs
I guess they'll call them.
Is one test better than the other?
(02:30):
So the CLTs I am not familiarwith, but that is very interesting
to hear and I'm not surprisedbecause there's always a discussion
of monopolizing.
Right.
Like the sat.
The college board has takenover everything and the ACT is always
trying to catch up.
So I wouldn't be surprised ifthere's another entity coming in
(02:50):
trying to be a part of that.
But really, as of.
Or when it comes to SAT andact, there's really not one that's
better than the other.
It has to do with which onebetter suits the student.
They are two very different tests.
I was going to say, what isthat difference between the ACT and
(03:11):
the sat?
So the ACT is much morestraightforward questions.
So if they ask a question,what is 2 times 2?
It equals 4.
So if you see 4 as the answer,you answer it and move on.
This does cause the ACT to bemuch more fast paced.
That's why many students willfind they don't have enough time,
but they want you to justanswer it and move on.
(03:32):
Answer it and move on.
Whereas the SAT is morecritical thinking, digging in between
answers.
If they ask you 2 times 2,you're probably missing a step in
there somewhere.
It's probably 2x +2 orsomething that's not necessarily
as straightforward.
So they give you more time perquestion to allow you to think about
(03:54):
it, use those criticalthinking skills and really put your
best thought into an answerbefore you move on to the next one.
Would it be fair tocharacterize the SATs as trickier?
Yeah, I mean, I think that's.
That's very fair.
But it's also interestingbecause there's.
There's almost like a regionalalignment per se.
(04:16):
A preference.
Yes, in a way.
So Georgia for many years hastended towards the College Board
and SAT side, which is, youknow, shown through how the state
pays for all 10th graders totake the PS.
And so we like to have 8th and9th graders take it to prep for it
in 10th grade.
In 11th grade is when theNational Merit Qualifying comes in,
(04:40):
which is only done through thePSAT and the sat.
Whereas the act.
There's other states that,like Alabama, for example, they tend
to be very much an ACT state.
And they might do a pre ACTduring the day as we do PSAT for
our students.
So I think the message to pullfrom that is the state of Georgia
(05:04):
is full of more criticalthinkers than the state of maybe
not.
Maybe not.
I shouldn't throw shade on ourneighbors to the west.
I wish there was more criticalthinking skills nationwide, much
less in our state.
That's a whole different podcast.
So, I mean, this time of yearfeels like the SATs and ACT announcements
(05:27):
go out and stuff.
Is this the time of year thatparents should be looking for those
tests or does it matter?
So spring does tend to Betesting season.
I think the kind of age oldwisdom was test in the end of your
junior year.
(05:48):
Really the best time to starttesting is when a student is at least
halfway done with algebra 2.
So that could come in 10th grade.
There's some that are reallyaccelerated in math that could come
in ninth grade.
But the majority of the mathon these two tests tends to go not
much more upwards than algebra 2.
(06:10):
So that's really the point todetermine when a student should start
testing, to just be bestprepared for the content that's on
the test.
Okay.
And you can take the testseveral times, can't you?
Sure.
I mean, it costs money to takeit, right?
That is a download.
Do you know how much?
Oh man, I have not been in itlong enough.
(06:33):
It used to be about $50.
Okay.
Per test.
But that could have gone up.
Everything else has gone up.
Yes, very much so.
I will say it is importantthat any families who receive free
or reduced lunch, that theyknow they can take each SAT and act
twice for free as long as theytalk to their school counselor about
(06:55):
a waiver of that test.
Yeah.
Get it coordinated throughyour counselor.
That's a very important pieceof it.
And I know there's a lot ofstigma about whether or not families
want free and reduced lunch,but I always encourage it because
not only can you do thesetests for free, but there's even
college application fees laterif you test for free, that it can
waive those fees as well.
(07:16):
Oh, thinking ahead.
That's critical thinking.
That's awesome.
I took the SAT back in high school.
So is test prep necessary?
I mean, can you really preparefor one of these tests as I perceive
it?
At least it seems like it'sattempting to assess what you have
(07:37):
learned in all of yourschooling, K through 12.
Right.
You'd be right about that.
So how far can test prepactually take you?
So you're definitely rightthat the content on the test really
should be what you've learnedmostly in high school.
Some of it might dip intomiddle, but it's really going to
be mostly high school content.
Test prep.
(07:59):
It's not going to teach you anything.
It may go back and review algebra.
So if it's been three yearssince you've taken algebra, it might
be helpful to review some ofthose concepts.
But really what test prep doesis it just helps a student feel comfortable
in the test environment.
So they'll practice timing,they'll practice kind of organizing
their thoughts, they'll practice.
(08:20):
Even the ACT can be easy.
Medium hard questions.
So some of the test prep maysuggest starting at the end of a
section to do the hard onesand then work backwards.
But it's really just a matterof comfort and going into the testing
center that day and not justlike clamming up.
And so it's not as much aboutthe test itself.
(08:40):
It's about how to take astandardized test.
Is that okay?
All right.
And because the two tests areso different, the Act 1, the Prep
probably will be more aboutthe timing of it and, you know, keeping
a watch with you so that youcan see how much time you're spending
per question.
You don't spend too much timeper question, but it's really just
(09:01):
the how the test works and thecomfort of being in that environment
and just feeling your bestself and feeling most confident going
into that test and, you know,giving it your best shot, like keeping.
A healthy pressure on you tokeep moving, but don't get super
anxious about it.
Right, right.
So what are.
I know that the ACT and SATshave different scoring ranges.
(09:26):
What's a good score on each of them?
So again, going back to kindof what I said at the beginning,
there's not really a concreteanswer for much of when it comes
down to sat, ACT and reallycollege admissions pieces at all.
There's not a good or badscore per se.
It really comes down to thecollege or university that a student
(09:49):
is interested in.
Another piece of this arescholarship organizations, when we
talk about that test optionalpiece, some scholarships that might
be the only way that they candetermine who is the best selection.
But there's not a good score.
I always suggest students givethemselves a goal, but a realistic
(10:09):
goal of what they want toscore based on colleges that are
a good fit for them overall.
We always want students tohave the safety schools.
Right.
We also always want them tohave their dream schools, but it's
those middle of the road,those range schools, those target
schools.
What do they require of a student?
And if that, that's a schoolthat fits your needs, that's a good
(10:31):
goal to set for yourself.
Instead of reaching way toohigh and then just feeling defeated
every time you don't get that score.
And always try to considermore than just one school, because
you lose that one, you'redevastated, and then you're set back
to ground zero again.
A whole nother podcast.
We could talk about collegeadmissions for days, but yes, do
(10:53):
not settle on just one school.
Reach, range and safety iswhat we call them.
Reach, range and safety,always reach high, stay within your
range, and then also have asafe Fallback.
Always got a backup plan.
All right, so the, the olddays, they used to have an essay
section on the sat.
(11:14):
I don't know.
Did they have it on the act?
They did.
Okay, how, how are those done nowadays?
Are they, do they still have them?
So the SAT was redesigned manyyears ago, pre Covid even, and they
don't have a specific essay section.
They kind of took the essayinto the English language arts grammar.
(11:38):
They embedded it in there.
The ACT does still have anessay section.
It's a random topic given witha certain timetable and kind of modern
research is showing thatcolleges aren't looking at that as
heavily anymore.
I would say it's worth it todo it once just so it's kind of done.
(12:00):
And if you do encounter acollege that wants to see those scores,
at least you have it done with.
But most colleges anduniversities agree that a timed written
essay is not going to showyour best work.
Which of course there'sargument of that with any timed assessment.
But there are benefits to time.
Standardized test.
But the essay piece, manycolleges that want to see the written
(12:24):
aspect of it, if that's, youknow, an integral part of their program,
they might request a writtenassignment you've done while you're
in a high school.
Maybe it's a topic you'vechosen, maybe it's one you've done
really well on.
It's a way of you showcasingyourself that's not in a here's a
random topic you might knownothing about.
Give me an argument in a 30minute time period.
And it probably is morereflective of your cognitive abilities.
(12:48):
I would think because it'sless about anxiety and last minute
rush.
It might actually be cateringon the timed essays.
Might be catering more to the procrastinators.
Right, right.
I mean, I always did fine onthe timed essays because it was like
a brain dump.
But yeah, I don't think it'sfor most high school students, I
(13:08):
don't think it's going to be agreat indicator of whether you can
write well when you can writein just a short period of time.
Because in college, inuniversities, that's not generally
something that's going to belooked at or assessed is that if
you can write quickly andwell, it's going to be just your
overall writing in general.
(13:31):
So I think you kind of touchedon this earlier.
How many times can or should astudent take the ACT or sat so.
They can take it Many times.
Tests do have the SAT and ACTdo have a maximum amount of times
that you can take it but mostof the research shows that a plateau
(13:52):
tends to happen after like thethird or fourth test.
So usually you test once,you're kind of just getting your
feet wet, seeing what the testlooks like, just getting acclimated
to the test environment.
The second time, scores dotend to go up whether or not you
have test prep, just becauseyou're prepared for what that test
is going to ask you.
Well, the first test was yourprep, right?
(14:13):
Right.
Basically it could be.
And then the third and fourthtime there doesn't tend to be much
more escalation in points.
There's not big gaps thatresearch has seen.
So conventional wisdom isusually two to three times is probably
the average of what studentshow many times they will take the
(14:35):
time.
And that's counting the PSATor that's in addition to.
That would be in addition to.
So the psat, although similarto the sat, is still not going to
be the exact same test becauseit is just preliminary.
It helps to see what thetesting environment is going to be
like.
Especially like I said here inCobb and In Georgia in 10th grade,
(14:58):
the test is purchased for allstudents so they have that opportunity
to be in a secured testingenvironment that would be similar
to the rest of them, but theyare still two very different tests.
Okay, now the last question isone that I think may impact a lot
(15:22):
of families and that is howengaged, involved should parents
be in their student'sapplication process and the testing
process and so forth.
Can you give us some insightson what the ideal would be in a family
(15:42):
environment?
The ideal answer would be thatfamilies, parents, guardians that
they serve as support.
So really the students shouldtake the lead on almost anything
when it comes to high school.
So by the time they reach 9th,maybe 10th grade, they should be
the ones kind of leading the charge.
(16:04):
So if they are registering forthe SAT or act, if there's not a
very clear cut website, thenGoogling it usually brings up the
best way to get to it.
I'll say.
They got no excuse nowadays, right?
No, I don't think so.
But most schools and mostcounseling offices do have the websites
that they can click on.
But it's a, the first timethey take either test, it's a pretty
(16:27):
lengthy application, butbecause there's also an interest
inventory that's included inthere and the SAT and ACT will send
potential career options basedon that interest inventory.
And they might even ask what astudent is looking for in a college
or university.
And although families do knowtheir students pretty well, there's
(16:47):
just no reason for them to dothat application when it's asking
those kinds of individualizedto this student questions.
So my suggestion in an idealworld would be that the parent or
the guardian or the family sitwith the student, sit down together
to do it.
So that if the student's doingthe application and they have questions,
(17:07):
then you're right there toanswer it.
But then also at the end, whenpayment comes in, if that's where
a family is going to help,then you're there, ready, you can
offer the payment.
And then also it just reallyhelps to prepare the students.
If they're taking the SAT andact to go to college, then they're
going to need to know how todo things on their own and the parents
(17:28):
are always going to be thereto support.
So it's good to just kind ofstart in that, you know, vein of,
you know, how to operate assoon as possible.
You know, let them do theapplication, let them ask questions.
It's not as easy as, oh, well,students are so busy with everything.
Well, parents are busy with alot of things too, so work together.
(17:52):
It's sometimes it's harder tosit back though, right?
As a parent, it is.
But I get what you're saying.
I think the listeners willappreciate that too.
And if you're about to sendyour student off to live life somewhat
alone, they need to starttaking those reins.
And having parents nearby,that's awesome.
Absolutely.
(18:13):
Let them fail while you'renearby so that when it's time for
them to actually go,everything is cool and you can rest
assured they know what they're.
Doing and they also know thatyou're always there.
So, I mean, maybe it's amoment that the parent can sit there
and read an email that they'vebeen sitting in their inbox for a
while that they haven't hadthe time to do while the student's
(18:35):
answering their interest inventory.
And then if the student hasquestions, they're there to help.
And then the test day too.
So here's the other thing thatwe've come across.
When the parents do too much,the families do too much for the
students.
Then they show up for test day unprepared.
They give this lovely testticket that is on one page detailed
(18:57):
with exactly what you need to bring.
But every single time thattest is offered, there is a photo
ID that's forgotten or thereis a pencil that is forgotten or
a calculator.
So the more ownership astudent takes of the registration,
the more they'll take ofgetting prepared for test day.
(19:19):
And I really think the morethey'll take doing the actual test
and feeling confident goinginto it as opposed to scrambling
that morning and saying, mom,dad, did you get all my stuff ready?
Like where's my pencil?
It's taking ownership, but itreally does set them up for success
in the future and kind of whatthey're gonna encounter when they
(19:40):
leave the nest.
And like you said, beginningearly in the high school years, maybe
second year of high school, asa parent, it's a good idea to start
letting them totally spreadtheir wings, do their thing.
Yeah, I mean you're alwaysthere, you know, they're accepting
it.
The only caveat I would say,and you correct me if I'm wrong.
(20:02):
But the fafsa, the financialthing, how engaged should the parent
be on that?
I mean there's a studentsection for that too.
So I mean really like I thinkthe many post secondary organizations
and really even just secondaryschools are trying very hard to encourage
(20:25):
the students to take ownershipand you know, allow the parents to
still be a part of it.
Because that's what we want.
We want to be a part of ourkids lives, but we also need to prepare
them for what the world'sgoing to show them, what they're
going to encounter.
But the FAFSA has a studentpiece where the student can complete
their part.
It's like step one and thenstep two is the parent part.
(20:46):
So the student can even startthe FAFSA and basically hand it off
to the parent.
Or again, in an ideal world,they can sit down together and do
it.
Well, this has been incrediblyenlightening and I really appreciate
you coming by and helping ourlisteners understand what some of
the advantages and pitfallsare in the whole process.
(21:08):
Testing obviously is just apart of the admissions process, but
it sure is a huge part.
Right?
So listeners check out thoseshow notes for some helpful links
and make sure you like, followand subscribe to this podcast so
you don't miss this out.
You might also want toconsider sending it to a friend.
Thank you for listening tothis edition of the Inside Scoop,
(21:30):
a podcast produced by the CobbCounty School.
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