August 9, 2023 • 42 mins
In episode 12 of Season 3, Arthi is joined by Gifford Pinchot III. Gifford was the obvious choice to discuss the topic " finding your mojo" because of the number of times he has tried something, failed, pivoted, exited, yet still bounced back. Gifford has had an extremely varied background through his different stages of life, from being a dairy farmer & blacksmith, to inventor, author, consultant, investor, academic & coach.
Gifford tells us how his writing career started after a failed business venture where he was in debt to the bank and was struggling to put food on the table. He explains how he was lucky enough to have a mentor who believed in him and hired him to write correspondence courses in entrepreneurship all of which led to the writing of his first book, which became a bestseller.
He also shares how desperation plays a role in finding the courage and overcoming challenges in life. This led him to finding his mojo and passions.
Some wise words from Gifford:
- “Find a purpose that is bigger than yourself”
- “Ask for the thing that which is easiest to give, which is advice.”
Listen to the full episode for so much more insights and ideas offered by this inspirational guest.
About Gifford Pinchot:
Gifford consults with & coaches leaders who are implementing innovation or innovation systems with a focus on sustainability & climate. He is passionate about supporting profitable innovations that address climate, the environment, health, and social issues.
He is the author 3 books including the bestseller "Intrapreneuring: Why You Don't Have to Leave the Corporation to Become an Entrepreneur".
Gifford is the President of Pinchot & Company, an online training company specializing in innovation, intrapreneurship, & environmental issues. He is the co-founder & President Emeritus of "The Bainbridge Graduate Institute,” which offered the world’s first MBA in Sustainable Business.
Gifford has co-founded & been the CEO of five ventures, sold four, and continues to run the fifth. He pioneered organizational and financial systems for liberating the talent & energy of ordinary employees within large organizations.
Gifford is currently coaching, consulting, and developing training for leaders who want to use innovation to address civilization’s major challenges.
Connect with Gifford Pinchot in the following ways:
● Website
Do rate, write a review and share with others.
Share too, your own insights from your journey based on themes from the episode - what has worked or hasn't for you. We can all learn from each other.
Connect with host Arthi here:
★ Website
★ YouTube
★ IG
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Arthi Rabikrisson (00:15):
Hello, everyone, and welcome to the
inspire your life podcast withme your host Arthi Rabikrisson.
I believe we find inspirationall around us, especially from
(00:36):
the stories that we all have inus. My aim with the inspire your
life podcast is to bring some ofthose real stories to light
stories of my guests thatresonate with you and me. It's
by listening to the stories thatwe can be inspired and motivate
(00:57):
ourselves to overcome find a newpath and rise even higher than
we thought possible.
Joining me on the show today isone of the Tasha10 family
members, Gifford Pinchot thethird, Gifford is the president
(01:20):
of Pinchot & Company, an onlinetraining company specializing in
things like innovationintrapreneurship and
environmental issues. Pinchot &Company has helped his clients
launch over 800 new products,services and new businesses and
has served over half of theFortune 100 Everyone. Gifford is
also co founded the BainbridgeGraduate Institute, which offers
(01:44):
the world's first MBA insustainable business and he was
also the president of theInstitute until it merged with
Presidio graduate school. NowGifford has facilitated numerous
collaborations betweenenvironmental groups and
industry as well. So you cantell everyone that this is a
passion area for Gifford.
Gifford and his wife Libba alsocoined the term intrapreneur
(02:04):
everyone, and they even wrotethe book about it. And that's
what started theintrapreneurship movement. Their
books include, and here's thetitle Intrapreneuring, why you
don't have to leave thecorporation to become an
entrepreneur, then, and also theintelligent organization,
engaging the talent andinitiative for everyone in the
(02:27):
workplace. These are really,really incredible books. If you
haven't gotten your hands onthem yet, you should. Gifford
has an extremely variedbackground, everyone and history
through his different stages oflife, and me listen to this,
from being a dairy farmer and ablacksmith to an inventor, an
author, a consultant andinvestor, an academic, a
(02:49):
novelist, a coach, oh mygoodness, I could go on and on
and on. And, you know,throughout all of that keeping
social and environmental justicein the forefront. And in fact,
you know, that's where he andhis wife, Libba are now focusing
their efforts currently, whichis just so amazing. So you know,
listeners, we could literallyspend the entire day talking
with Gifford and still only knowa small piece of his life arc as
(03:13):
he likes to call it. But today,we're gonna be talking together
about getting your mojo backeveryone and I felt that given
the number of times you know,Gifford has shared with me in
terms of detail about thingshe's tried over the years, be it
whether it worked or it failedor didn't go according to plan,
but still bouncing back in. He'sone of the best people to be
(03:36):
able to share some of thoseexperiences with that. So
Gifford after that longintroduction, but so worthwhile.
I am just beyond thrilled thatwe can chat today. Welcome to
the inspire your life podcast.
Gifford Pinchot (03:52):
Thank you so much Arthi
Arthi Rabikrisson (03:53):
At that absolute absolute pleasure. And,
you know, it really, reallyboggled my mind just going
through you know, all the thingsyou've been through and everyone
you know, I've just given agiven everyone a view of this
kind of CD or bio very highlevel, bio view of you. But
Gifford tell us a little bitmore about the real you. Share
(04:13):
with us so everyone gets to knowyou a bit more.
Gifford Pinchot (04:16):
Well I think like so many other people, I'm
Arthi Rabikrisson (04:16):
Right.
struggling from time to timewith self confidence and end up
with the imposter syndrome. Oneof the things that one of the
things you can do if you have anentrepreneurial spirit, is you
keep doing things that you'renot qualified for. And, and so
Gifford Pinchot (04:35):
And my wife, coached me through the process
that always leads to a littlestruggle. Am I really the right
person to be doing this, but onthe other hand, it needs to be
done and nobody else seems to bedoing it. So I guess I guess
I'll go ahead anyway. And, youknow, writing the book
(04:58):
intrapreneuring was, after asignificant business failure, we
had sucesses blacksmiths weended up with showrooms in 10
cities 20 Smith's in the barn,pounding away making products
and so forth. And then we werediscovered by people who were
manufacturing in Mexico, and wejust couldn't just couldn't beat
(05:22):
their prices and had to sell thebusiness. And so they're we were
basically at that time I, whoowed the bank $80,000, the
interest rate was 23%. And wewere unemployed, blacksmiths
with young children. And now, ifyou put unemployed blacksmith on
your resume, this doesn'tnecessarily lead to but enormous
(05:46):
job offers. So the, that was atime of worry, wondering how we
were going to make it. Yeah, infact, we were losing weight,
because we're putting moreattention on feeding our
children than ourselves. I hada mentor at that time, who I had
gone to the school forentrepreneurs, and he had just
(06:10):
taken a liking to me and, andsaw stuff in me that I didn't
see in myself. And so that wasone way of recovering from, you
know, a real blow,was havingsomebody who really believed in
you. And he, he hired me towrite correspondence courses in
entrepreneurship and thensuggested that I should go to
(06:33):
work for a consulting firm. Andthat, that, that worked out
well. And I learned how to be aconsultant and obviously made a
living while I was there, spunout and was a four of my fellow
and did a lot of the researchand ended up writing some of it.
consultants and created our ownfirm. And that which he by the
way that my mentor helped tofund that, that startup. So what
(06:58):
you see there is a is atremendous boost in my life,
some knowing somebody whobelieved in me, and that that
was enormously helpful. And thatwas going okay Harper Row asked
if you would write the book onintrapreneuring. And which was
kind of tricky, because I kindof grew up in a science track,
(07:21):
not a literature track, and whatdid I know about writing a book?
And, and, you know, it became abest seller. It was on the New
York Times bestseller list forfor many, many weeks in the
number two position, we nevercould get by Iacocca and all of
(07:48):
a sudden, from struggling tomake debt payments on on that
$80,000 to having the fortune500 calling up many times a week
asking for help. And suddenlyfinding ourselves, you know, in
the , very comfortable positionfinancially, it was was kind of
(08:12):
a shock. And it also taught mewhat I think was one of the most
important lessons in my life wasthat money is not all that
important. You know, my sense ofwellbeing changed a little, I
mean, we could pay our bills,that was nice, but I was still
the same person in the same lifewith the same wife and the same
(08:33):
children and, and, and all thethings that were going on in
that life. And I realized thatthose relationships were more
important than in money. Andlater on that lesson, came home
to me when my dear Libba came tome and said, I was on the road
80% of the time giving speechesand she and she said them or me,
(08:57):
either neither, even if you comehome and and take up your role
as a father and a housekeeper orthis relationship is over. And
and that was a pretty easychoice.
Arthi Rabikrisson (09:14):
I'm glad
Gifford Pinchot (09:15):
you know, we we cut back on the speaking tour
and cut our income down, butwe're still living a good life.
So that I think that thatbalance between, you know,
career ambition and in the lifethat is really the intimate life
(09:37):
that you're living was a veryimportant lesson at that time.
And I learned it twice. Once ,just when when we started doing
really well. I noticed that, youknow, there were still
relationship issues that neededto be worked out. In fact, while
there was there was kind of anew relationship issue, which is
Oh, you think you're a hot shit,don't you? But is still put on
(10:04):
your pants, you know, one leg ata time.
Arthi Rabikrisson (10:06):
I like that
Gifford Pinchot (10:10):
TheI had to not get too full of myself and then
and then the collection andwell, we're, I was putting my
time was the second time Ilearned that lesson.
Arthi Rabikrisson (10:23):
Right? Okay, I'm gonna give you you've given
us so much already just in thatintro. I know, there's so many
things swelling in my mind rightnow. And I think, you know, I
love the fact that you mentionedthe example of you know, when
things were going well, but thensuddenly wasn't. And you're kind
of having to now think about,you know, well, how do I
actually put food on the table,how to actually make sure that
(10:45):
my kids are fine. And thenhaving someone who was an
advocate and a believer in you,actually showing you a pivot
area to go into. And as you saidearlier, you know, a space where
you didn't know anything thatwasn't where you you knew or
where you had your backgroundwas, but you just kind of dove
into it. And you learned, youknow, the question that was
(11:08):
coming up for me for and I thinkthis happens with many of us is,
how does one do that? How doesone actually find the courage to
go into uncharted territory.
Because it seems so scary. Andyou I mean, you give us one
example of, of you doing this,but you've done this over and
over and over again. So despitethe imposter syndrome, there
(11:28):
that rears its head, despite thelack of self confidence, what is
it? Is there a secretingredient? Or what is it? Is it
a mindset that actually gave youthat little bit of a push to
say, I'm gonna give it a try?
Gifford Pinchot (11:42):
I think, you know, I think that there's
desperation behind that. So I'llgive you, I'll give you I'll
give you an example, that doesnot involve financial
desperation. So I, when, at whenwe, you know, I was a Silicon
Valley CEO, at an Internetsecurity company, and when when
(12:04):
we sold that company, we werequite well off. And, and so that
led to a soul searching of,okay, if making money is not
what I have to do, what should Ibe doing, and it and I felt
very, very strongly about theclimate change challenge, and
wanted to do something about it.
And so we sat down and said,Well, what were the leverage
(12:29):
points, you know, we couldbecome investors in Climate
Technology, but we weren't thatrich to make a huge difference.
And, and there were a lot ofpeople who are doing that. We
could become activists and yellat the corporation's about what
they needed to do and there werea lot of people doing that. And
(12:54):
it didn't seem that one more wasgoing to make much difference.
We could try to changegovernment policy. But there
were a lot of people doing thatand, and, you know, there was
some backlash against that itdidn't seem that pushing harder
in that direction was somethingthat we were particularly
(13:19):
prepared for. And then there wasbusiness education and what we
were noticing is that the peoplein business, were being educated
to believe that it was immoralto do anything for your
employees, or to anything foryour customers beyond what you
needed to sell them a product orto do anything for the community
(13:44):
in which you lived or to doanything for the planet, all of
that was considered immoral,literally, because you're sole
duty as an employee is to workfor the shareholders and make
them rich and nothing elsematters. And we thought a
society built on that principleis basically going to the
(14:08):
crater. I mean that that can'twork out and it and it wasn't
working out. Society was notaddressing climate change. It
was not addressing poverty, itwas not addressing the issues
that really mattered. And so wethought we went to business
schools and said, Well, youknow, we were in a position to
(14:32):
make a donation, can we fund alittle something to get going,
the idea of sustainability, andsocial justice in business
education, and they all laughedat us, except for the professors
that cared about those things.
(14:53):
And they said, Whatever you do,don't get to come here. We're
getting killed. Every time weget we talk about that it, we're
in trouble. So we said, well,the only thing we can do about
this is to start our own schooland demonstrate to the business
(15:13):
education community that you canhave other values, and that your
graduates will still be hired.
And that and that your studentswill still come to you even
though making the most moneypossible is not what you're
offering, because you'd dobetter to go to Harvard if
that's what you want. And, andour friends all got together and
(15:38):
ran an intervention. They tookus out to dinner, and they said,
if you continue with this stupididea of trying to start a
business school, I mean peopledon't Just start schools, what
are you talking about , and youwill lose your inherit your
(15:58):
retirement fund and your health.
And for you shouldn't do this.
And so we decided to do itanyway, because I think of this
desperation is we had to dosomething to stop climate change
and we had found a leverage whenwhere we thought we could make a
(16:18):
difference. And our goal was,first of all, to educate our
students so that they could goout and transform big
organizations and start venturesand so forth, but also to be an
example to other businessschools. So they would
eventually come to be more likeus. And our very success was our
(16:42):
failure. Because we not onlysucceeded in that first one, I
mean, yesterday, I was talkingto the head of sustainability at
IBM, who was one of ourgraduates and so forth. But we
also talked to the otherbusiness schools, who kept
coming and studying what we weredoing into starting
(17:06):
sustainability programs of theirown. Pretty soon elite business
schools were offering whatlooked like it was the same
thing we were offering, exceptthat they had the credibility
of, you know, long establishedpresence and at that point,
when this really began to be aproblem, we were maybe five or
(17:30):
six years old, we had grownrapidly. We had won all kinds of
prizes, our graduates werebeating the elite business
schools, in business planningcompetitions, and so forth. But
it got harder and harder to getstudents because, you know,
people being somewhat careful inhow they use their lives, they
(17:55):
were beginning to go to theseother schools instead of us. And
there was a long period werekeeping the school alive was a
very stressful period of havingto go out and fund a million
dollars a year. And, and thatbecame became wearing, I began
(18:15):
to have heart problems and wejust barely succeeded in merging
with Presidio rather than goingout of business. And after that,
I got cancer. And and so of allthe predictions that our friends
had made came true, we hadbasically burned burned through
(18:35):
our retirement and supportingthe school and we and there I
found myself and my family,again, not really knowing how we
were going to support ourselvesand out and not knowing what we
were supposed to do to make adifference in the world. And
(18:56):
through a friend who happened tohave been the roommate of
someone who ran a largeconstruction firm, his
construction firm was havingtrouble in permitting and he
didn't understand the nonprofitenvironmental organizations that
were attacking his projects. Andso he hired us to talk to those
(19:20):
people because we were comingfrom the side of the business
which had long roots andenvironmentalism and those sorts
of things and thought that hewould be be able to talk to
those people. And this hasturned out to be a, a very
fulfilling kind of work. We, forexample, there was a waste to
(19:44):
hydrogen facility in Richmond,California, and it was really
struggling Richmond, theRichmond City Council are are
very progressive. The RichmondCity itself is very anti
industry. Chevron has been therefor over 100 years, polluting
the air and so they do not thinkof anyone building a any kind of
(20:08):
an industrial facility in thattown is a good idea. At least
the bulk population, of course,they're all people who work at
Chevron, but they may not livein Richmond. And so we took on
this project, and we went toRichmond and we started talking
(20:28):
to people in the environmentalorganization, they all said just
go home. Don't, don't even tryand when they found out and they
found out that the project was50% owned by Chevron, they said
this is a this is an you willnever you will never succeed. So
(20:49):
we decided to use a differentsystem. Instead of viewing the
environmental organizations asenemies who could be defeated in
court. We viewed them as peopleof good heart who needed to know
more about the project which wasscheduled to clean the air in
(21:10):
Richmond to deliver a very lowcarbon intensity hydrogen to
deal with 24,000 tonnes a yearof food and yard waste that
would otherwise go to Lianlandfill and for methane into
the air, it even made biochar,which could then sequester the
carbon. So when you looked atall the numbers, it was better
(21:34):
than other ways of makinghydrogen. But it was still
tarred with the idea that wedidn't need more industrial
pollution and it and it isnegative on pollution, only
because it gets 60% of itsenergy by shutting down a
flooring of landfill gas, whichwas who in the heck out of the
(21:57):
environment and putting itthrough internal combustion
engines and processing thenonprofit
the idea of how do we get theexhaust. So it was much cleaner
than what was coming out of theflare. It's not that it didn't
put any pollution into the air.
So there was something to attackthere. Well the end result was
(22:22):
that the in environmentalorganizations just decided that
they didn't wish to oppose itanymore. And we got seven out of
seven votes in the Richmond CityCouncil for approving approving
the project. And it was a proofof this idea of collaborating
(22:42):
nonprofits and the people whoare building technology to deal
with the nonprofits, and reallylistening to them, and really
answering their questions. Forexample, Raven, before this was
with climate together toactually talk to each other,
rather than meeting in court.
How do we form a dialogue andover, had spent a million
dollars doing studies to provethat the numbers which they were
giving the nonprofits were, inthat is how when we bounce back,
so my situation that was prettyfact, correct. And, you know,
(23:03):
one of them was a health riskdire. While I survived the
cancer, I, my first response wasassessment that said, Well, this
is going to reduce cancer anddisease in Richmond, because
it's cleaning the air. And, andto co write a novel on how the
climate future could work outso that kind of approach in
which you said, Well, we'rereally going to take your
concerns seriously. Thewell to try to bring hope to all
(23:23):
the young people who arenonprofit's said that no one has
ever listened to us before. Thisbasically have given up. 50% of
people between 16 and 25 believeis ridiculous. And so that's our
current belief system is that wethat humanity is doomed and, are
depressed about it, well, Ihave to get a system basically
permitting, is slowing downwould be depressed about that,
too, if I if humanity is doomed,climate mitigation technology.
Bill Mckibben recently said,and I think we have hard times
(23:43):
ahead. But I think humanity willyou know, the environmental
organizations have become verysurvive and will come to its
senses. And so we're working on,good at saying no to projects,
but the climate change is nowon making that happen. And one
particular sector, which is thesufficiently dire, that they
have to learn to say yes toenvironmental community, you
know, seeing how theenvironmental community can be
more supportive of doing whatthings rather than saying no,
they have to become good atneeds to be done in climate and,
(24:04):
and making the permittingsaying yes, rather than good at
saying no, and helping theprocess basically, less
litigious, and morethings that need to be happening
to happen.
collaborative.
Arthi Rabikrisson (24:15):
Okay, so that's what you're busy with
currently then Giffard
Gifford Pinchot (24:19):
Yeah,
Arthi Rabikrisson (24:20):
yeah.
Gifford Pinchot (24:21):
And unfortunately, we're being paid
to do it. So that's that's allin the the
Arthi Rabikrisson (24:28):
financial desperation component, but you
know, as you will as he wastalking through this, you know,
this real life, you know, storyof what you've gone through, you
know, we spoke about that almostthat purposeful desperation
because, you know, fie thebusiness school sort of starting
out there was the real need toactually get as you were saying,
(24:50):
you know, in the educationsystem, that awareness around
sustainability and then off youwent and you did the school, and
then as you said, success, yoursuccess became you downfall
because suddenly all the bignames your Ivy League's are
starting to, to bring this onboard because there's a
realization that this issomething that needs to be
looked at. But then you knowwhere you're at now, it almost
(25:15):
sounds as if you've kind oflike, leveled, leveled up even
more in in this area that you'reworking in now around the
permits and preventinglitigation in the space through
the nonprofit. So I'm almostgetting a sense that in, in
finding your mojo through allthese different phases, it's
it's getting you to an evencrisper level of your purpose
(25:38):
and even crisper level ofexactly where you're needed to
be at this point in time. Wouldthat be would that be accurate?
Gifford Pinchot (25:46):
Ya. I mean, I will say that I think when we're
running the business school, wewere where we needed to be at
that time Yeah. And And now, wesound in other high leverage, we
found another high leveragepoint in climate mitigation, we
(26:07):
found out where the system isjammed up, because now, money is
not really the problem infunding climate mitigation.
There's, there's governmentmoney, there's all kinds of of
investors who are interested inthis, that it doesn't go any
good to have money if you can'tactually build the technology.
And if you can't, if you gettied up in court for years, that
(26:32):
makes the financial prospects ofinvesting in Climate Technology
much more iffy, and much, muchless profitable. So, you know,
we found a place that needs worknow, is this is this better than
other places we've been in ourlives? I don't know about that.
It is, but it is good. And whenyou're, you know, 80 years old
(26:55):
and unemployed, good is a kindof a good place to find
yourself. We'll see how, wherethis goes. I mean, we certainly
succeeded in one situation nowwe're trying to deal more
generally with a situation bychanging the minds of people and
(27:16):
getting people to see this needto switch from no to yes. And it
remains to be seen whether wecan do that. We're in the very
early stages. By the way, we'restarting a podcast as part of
our re education now. And thisgiven us I mean, I think it's
(27:36):
one, it's a wonderful ideapodcasting, because you get to
talk to interesting people.
Arthi Rabikrisson (27:41):
Absolutely absolutely now and potentially
reach those people that need tobe galvanized into action again
You know, from your research,you were saying 50% of your the
target population that'sactually going to change things
for the better, we need to getthem galvanized again. So
podcast, definitely,
Gifford Pinchot (28:00):
you know, the, I'd like to say that there are
three things that you can doabout climate change, there's
denial, there's depression, andthere's doing something about
it. And, and one of our goals,obviously, is to move people
from that doing from depressionto doing something about it and
maybe we took to move peoplefrom denial also, to doing
(28:23):
something about it.
Arthi Rabikrisson (28:25):
What are we?
What are we able to actuallyachieve? Absolutely. Okay, so
give it I guess, we were comingclose to the end of our
conversation, but then such awonderful conversation to be
having, because we're talkingabout bouncing back. We're
talking about environmentaljustice, we're talking about
climate change, and so manydifferent things. But I think
maybe there's so many listenersand you know, when I was sharing
(28:48):
this before we startedrecording, there's so many
listeners that reach out to meto say, we really struggling,
we've had a setback, we don'tknow how to get back up again.
Or if we're getting back upagain, we're fearful that we're
going to fall back down andwe're not sure if we can take
the next step. So if you havemaybe one piece of advice, a key
piece of advice that you couldmaybe share with our listeners
(29:11):
today about how they canactually stick with it, how they
can keep on going on, findingand also getting back up on
their feet, getting their mojoback. What would you say to
them?
Gifford Pinchot (29:25):
Finding a purpose that's bigger than
yourself. So if you go back to,you know, for example, starting
to school, yeah. You asked meearlier, werent you a little
afraid, you're trying I mean,you're you're trying to start a
whole new graduate school andwith all the problems of
(29:50):
accreditation and funding andand so forth, what, what made
you do that? And the answer is,well, we had a very, very strong
purpose, and the purpose, thentook over. It said, it's alright
to do this because, you know,we're living in a time, I mean,
(30:10):
this is just me personally, butwe're living in a time when the
planet is being destroyed, or atleast the, I mean, the rock is
still gonna be here, but thelife on the planet is there
huge, huge, huge wave ofextinctions taking place. And,
and, and there's huge flow ofrefugees where their their land
(30:34):
that is no longer can supportthem. And there will be billions
of refugees at the rate we'regoing not to be doing something
about it would have been totallyunacceptable. My wife uses the
term moral injury, to discusswhat's going on in our society
today. So this, this term wasnot coined by her it was coined
(30:59):
by people dealing with peoplefrom PTSD coming back from from
the wars. And it was discoveredthat the real problem they had
was not the injuries that theyhad sustained. The real problem
was some of the injuries thatthey had caused, and other
people that they looking at whothey really were, or did not
believe that that was okay. So,you know, whether it's bombing a
(31:25):
village or you know, firefightand you notice that you're
killing women and children arewhatever it might be, and you
can't live with yourself. And toa degree, those of us who are
really awake at this time, werecognize that on our watch, the
earth is going to hell. And ifwe're not doing everything we
(31:47):
can to to to stop that, then weare sustaining a moral injury.
We are we are not feeling goodabout ourselves because of the
fact that we're complicit inwhat's going on. And we are all
complicit in what's going on,you know, how to have the why
(32:08):
get to the grocery store? Theanswer is I drive my car
Arthi Rabikrisson (32:12):
whihc is emitting cans of carbons, and
that has impact on
Gifford Pinchot (32:16):
Ya, you and I are burning are burning
electricity at the moment, etcetera, et cetera, every every
act we take. And so, if youhave, if you can find out what
you're really fired up about,then you almost don't need
courage to do it. Because notdoing it would be worse. And
(32:43):
and, and it lifts you up?
Arthi Rabikrisson (32:45):
Yeah, you're right. I mean, as you say, it
fires you up, literally. So nomatter what else is going on,
because that burning desire isin you, that just propels you to
do it. I like that.
Gifford Pinchot (32:57):
Different people have different burning
desires. i Yeah, it doesn't haveto be climate, obviously, it
could be childhood education. Itcould be making something in a
better way it could be dealingwith poverty and, and social
justice issues. There are allkinds of causes in this in this
(33:20):
world. And you can you cancombine them as, as, as we have
with ways of generating revenue.
I mean, we were right now wefound a way to get paid to make
the changes we want to make. Andso I think that's the challenge
we all face but as if, if you'refeeling down and out, and that
(33:44):
somehow, you know, there aretimes in my life when toward the
end of the intrapreneurshipthought period, which was a you
know, it was a really good ridewith the fortune 100 just
calling us up and demanding thatwe speak to the. We reached a
point when DuPont called us upand said you got to come down to
(34:06):
Wilmington, and talk to us aboutintrapreneur and I said we don't
make house calls. You have tocome here. Now. I mean, you have
to realize what I mean. That waskind of nuts, a lot of its, but
Arthi Rabikrisson (34:24):
Ya quite cheeky
Gifford Pinchot (34:26):
But that the phone was ringing off the hook.
So that that would that was agood time. But then years later,
when we had done numerousinterventions in larger
organizations and set upintrapreneurial programs only to
have the CEO come in and undoeverything that we had done. A
(34:46):
new CEO who didn't understandwhat was happening. Yeah, it
became a bitter period. Iremember holding up in the attic
of over our garage and and andwriting, because I couldn't show
my face in a corporation becauseI knew what I, what I had to
say, would be so radical that Iwould never be invited back
(35:12):
again.
Arthi Rabikrisson (35:13):
You would literally be lighting your fire
under them that they would notlike I can imagine that.
Gifford Pinchot (35:20):
So, you know, things have their arc and then
that became not the thing to doanymore. Yeah. And we had to get
out of serving corporations andinto serving individuals. We'll
know the individuals who we haveconvinced that they can, in
fact, make a living, stillcaring about sustainability, and
(35:43):
now go out and get good shotsdoing that, they are not going
to revert, they're not suddenlygoing to go back to saying, Oh,
I don't care about this anymore.
They're going to continue forthe rest of their lives, making
the world better. And, and sothat move was had to take place,
because of the experience we haddealing directly with
corporations. What was that,like that didn't have the
(36:05):
permanence we were looking for?
Arthi Rabikrisson (36:08):
Yeah, it really does speak to that
leveling up at each stage, youknow, the more and more as
you're giving us more insightinto, you know, into your life
into the story, I really amseeing that it's that step
change, kind of saying, This iswhat was working at the stage,
time, past experience grew andsuddenly that's not working
anymore. But we stepping,stepping change into a different
(36:29):
era. So I think that's a keything. I think for a lot of the
listeners to remember as well,the way you find yourself right
now, it's probably not space,you're gonna find yourself in a
few years time, let alone even afew months time, because so much
can change in that time. Youknow we have coverd so much
Gifford, Oh, so you want to saysomething
Gifford Pinchot (36:49):
No thats fine
Arthi Rabikrisson (36:51):
I was just gonna say that, you know, we've
covered so much today from, youknow, talking about the topic
around, you know, finding yourmojo bouncing back, but we've
even gone all the way around,you know, talking around
sustainability, around climate,around moral injury around even
that sort of challenge you putin front of everyone to say, you
know, we kind of need to thinkabout this as well, because I've
(37:13):
heard that, that call to action.
And and kind of looping it backtowards, well, if you find
something that fires you up,find that purpose, it's going to
take you places I think that'sbeautiful. Gifford, I want us to
kind of end up on a high notewith our conversation today. I
would love it if you couldshare, you know, in your, in
your experience in your wisdom,something that's maybe just
(37:34):
keeping you and Libba inspiredto keep going to keep making
impact on your journey. It couldbe anything, it could be a poem,
it could be a quote, a songlyric, something spiritual,
whatever is just has been likethis resonating sort of, you
know, underlying belief orthread that keeps you going,
what would you share with us?
Gifford Pinchot (37:56):
Well, yesterday, I was talking to a
young fellow in college, whocalled us up and said, I really,
you know, I, I've been followingyou, I really want to talk to
you. And, and so we talked andone of the things that he found
really useful. He said, I'mtrying to change the university,
(38:18):
but I'm, I'm being blocked. Andone of the things he's that I
said he said, Well, what youhave to do, if you want to move
ahead obviously is make friendswith people who are influential
in the university. And one ofthe ways of doing that is to ask
them for something to which theywill say yes. If you go in and
(38:42):
make a demand, they will saythat they say no to or more say
maybe which means no for themost part that will prejudice
them against you that if you askthem for something that that
they can give you that willprejudice them for you. So I
said ask for the thing, which isthe easiest to give which is
(39:06):
advice and and they will giveyou advice and then they will be
a little bit bought bought intoyour your project. And if you
then try using one of theiradvice, you beliefs and then
come back and offer gratitudethat will make them even more in
in behind your idea. So thisidea of whatever you are trying
(39:29):
to do, you can start out andstart making progress towards
it. If you are willing to biteoff little bits of it rather
than ask for the whole wholething right away and gradually
work up in a series of smallsteps to to getting there and
that that is always open to youwhen you're trying to change
(39:51):
your systems. This what are theHow can you how can you get
people onside by not asking toomuch of them? But let it letting
them help you in some small way,and then a bigger way and then a
bigger way and then a bigger wayas they gradually get bought in.
And I, I think that's generallyuseful and, and it means that
(40:15):
you can always start movingtowards the dream that you have
Arthi Rabikrisson (40:19):
doesn't seem so daunting because you're just
doing a little bit at a time andgetting bigger and bigger as you
go
Gifford Pinchot (40:25):
And I don't mean to suggest that that's
slow. That actually is probablythe fastest way to get ahead,
Arthi Rabikrisson (40:31):
Yeah, Yeah Yeah, because of the way that
mechanism and that loop works interms of potential using that
advice. And if you're able togive feedback quickly and show
gratitude, then suddenly the Askbecomes a little bit more they
offer more quicker. I get whatyou saying, I get it. Yeah,
could be could be a faster wayto than trying to ask for the
big prize and the jackpot all inone go. And they like shut you
(40:54):
down completely. Lovely. GiffordThank you so much. It's been
wonderful having you as a guesttoday with so much of insights,
so much of practical ideas, andalso just sharing from your own
life's journey. I really trulyappreciate it. Thanks for being
on the episode today.
Gifford Pinchot (41:12):
It's been fun.
Thank you so much.
Arthi Rabikrisson (41:14):
My Pleasure, take a care Gifford.
Gifford Pinchot (41:17):
Bye bye.
Arthi Rabikrisson (41:26):
Thank you so much for joining me on this
episode today. If you like whatyou heard, rate, the episode and
podcast. And feel free to writea review. Plus, of course, share
with others too. I love talkingaround topics like these. So if
you live my perspective orinsight in a subject close to
(41:46):
your heart, or something thatyou're grappling with, reach out
to me in your comments or sendme an email via my website or
connected me via LinkedIn,Instagram or Facebook all my
social media on the podcastinformation. If it's important
to you, then it's important too.
So happy listening to theinspire your life podcast and
(42:07):
catch you soon on the nextepisode.
Hello, everyone, and welcome to the
inspire your life podcast withme your host Arthi Rabikrisson.
I believe we find inspirationall around us, especially from
(00:36):
the stories that we all have inus. My aim with the inspire your
life podcast is to bring some ofthose real stories to light
stories of my guests thatresonate with you and me. It's
by listening to the stories thatwe can be inspired and motivate
(00:57):
ourselves to overcome find a newpath and rise even higher than
we thought possible.
Joining me on the show today isone of the Tasha10 family
members, Gifford Pinchot thethird, Gifford is the president
(01:20):
of Pinchot & Company, an onlinetraining company specializing in
things like innovationintrapreneurship and
environmental issues. Pinchot &Company has helped his clients
launch over 800 new products,services and new businesses and
has served over half of theFortune 100 Everyone. Gifford is
also co founded the BainbridgeGraduate Institute, which offers
(01:44):
the world's first MBA insustainable business and he was
also the president of theInstitute until it merged with
Presidio graduate school. NowGifford has facilitated numerous
collaborations betweenenvironmental groups and
industry as well. So you cantell everyone that this is a
passion area for Gifford.
Gifford and his wife Libba alsocoined the term intrapreneur
(02:04):
everyone, and they even wrotethe book about it. And that's
what started theintrapreneurship movement. Their
books include, and here's thetitle Intrapreneuring, why you
don't have to leave thecorporation to become an
entrepreneur, then, and also theintelligent organization,
engaging the talent andinitiative for everyone in the
(02:27):
workplace. These are really,really incredible books. If you
haven't gotten your hands onthem yet, you should. Gifford
has an extremely variedbackground, everyone and history
through his different stages oflife, and me listen to this,
from being a dairy farmer and ablacksmith to an inventor, an
author, a consultant andinvestor, an academic, a
(02:49):
novelist, a coach, oh mygoodness, I could go on and on
and on. And, you know,throughout all of that keeping
social and environmental justicein the forefront. And in fact,
you know, that's where he andhis wife, Libba are now focusing
their efforts currently, whichis just so amazing. So you know,
listeners, we could literallyspend the entire day talking
with Gifford and still only knowa small piece of his life arc as
(03:13):
he likes to call it. But today,we're gonna be talking together
about getting your mojo backeveryone and I felt that given
the number of times you know,Gifford has shared with me in
terms of detail about thingshe's tried over the years, be it
whether it worked or it failedor didn't go according to plan,
but still bouncing back in. He'sone of the best people to be
(03:36):
able to share some of thoseexperiences with that. So
Gifford after that longintroduction, but so worthwhile.
I am just beyond thrilled thatwe can chat today. Welcome to
the inspire your life podcast.
Gifford Pinchot (03:52):
Thank you so much Arthi
Arthi Rabikrisson (03:53):
At that absolute absolute pleasure. And,
you know, it really, reallyboggled my mind just going
through you know, all the thingsyou've been through and everyone
you know, I've just given agiven everyone a view of this
kind of CD or bio very highlevel, bio view of you. But
Gifford tell us a little bitmore about the real you. Share
(04:13):
with us so everyone gets to knowyou a bit more.
Gifford Pinchot (04:16):
Well I think like so many other people, I'm
Arthi Rabikrisson (04:16):
Right.
struggling from time to timewith self confidence and end up
with the imposter syndrome. Oneof the things that one of the
things you can do if you have anentrepreneurial spirit, is you
keep doing things that you'renot qualified for. And, and so
Gifford Pinchot (04:35):
And my wife, coached me through the process
that always leads to a littlestruggle. Am I really the right
person to be doing this, but onthe other hand, it needs to be
done and nobody else seems to bedoing it. So I guess I guess
I'll go ahead anyway. And, youknow, writing the book
(04:58):
intrapreneuring was, after asignificant business failure, we
had sucesses blacksmiths weended up with showrooms in 10
cities 20 Smith's in the barn,pounding away making products
and so forth. And then we werediscovered by people who were
manufacturing in Mexico, and wejust couldn't just couldn't beat
(05:22):
their prices and had to sell thebusiness. And so they're we were
basically at that time I, whoowed the bank $80,000, the
interest rate was 23%. And wewere unemployed, blacksmiths
with young children. And now, ifyou put unemployed blacksmith on
your resume, this doesn'tnecessarily lead to but enormous
(05:46):
job offers. So the, that was atime of worry, wondering how we
were going to make it. Yeah, infact, we were losing weight,
because we're putting moreattention on feeding our
children than ourselves. I hada mentor at that time, who I had
gone to the school forentrepreneurs, and he had just
(06:10):
taken a liking to me and, andsaw stuff in me that I didn't
see in myself. And so that wasone way of recovering from, you
know, a real blow,was havingsomebody who really believed in
you. And he, he hired me towrite correspondence courses in
entrepreneurship and thensuggested that I should go to
(06:33):
work for a consulting firm. Andthat, that, that worked out
well. And I learned how to be aconsultant and obviously made a
living while I was there, spunout and was a four of my fellow
and did a lot of the researchand ended up writing some of it.
consultants and created our ownfirm. And that which he by the
way that my mentor helped tofund that, that startup. So what
(06:58):
you see there is a is atremendous boost in my life,
some knowing somebody whobelieved in me, and that that
was enormously helpful. And thatwas going okay Harper Row asked
if you would write the book onintrapreneuring. And which was
kind of tricky, because I kindof grew up in a science track,
(07:21):
not a literature track, and whatdid I know about writing a book?
And, and, you know, it became abest seller. It was on the New
York Times bestseller list forfor many, many weeks in the
number two position, we nevercould get by Iacocca and all of
(07:48):
a sudden, from struggling tomake debt payments on on that
$80,000 to having the fortune500 calling up many times a week
asking for help. And suddenlyfinding ourselves, you know, in
the , very comfortable positionfinancially, it was was kind of
(08:12):
a shock. And it also taught mewhat I think was one of the most
important lessons in my life wasthat money is not all that
important. You know, my sense ofwellbeing changed a little, I
mean, we could pay our bills,that was nice, but I was still
the same person in the same lifewith the same wife and the same
(08:33):
children and, and, and all thethings that were going on in
that life. And I realized thatthose relationships were more
important than in money. Andlater on that lesson, came home
to me when my dear Libba came tome and said, I was on the road
80% of the time giving speechesand she and she said them or me,
(08:57):
either neither, even if you comehome and and take up your role
as a father and a housekeeper orthis relationship is over. And
and that was a pretty easychoice.
Arthi Rabikrisson (09:14):
I'm glad
Gifford Pinchot (09:15):
you know, we we cut back on the speaking tour
and cut our income down, butwe're still living a good life.
So that I think that thatbalance between, you know,
career ambition and in the lifethat is really the intimate life
(09:37):
that you're living was a veryimportant lesson at that time.
And I learned it twice. Once ,just when when we started doing
really well. I noticed that, youknow, there were still
relationship issues that neededto be worked out. In fact, while
there was there was kind of anew relationship issue, which is
Oh, you think you're a hot shit,don't you? But is still put on
(10:04):
your pants, you know, one leg ata time.
Arthi Rabikrisson (10:06):
I like that
Gifford Pinchot (10:10):
TheI had to not get too full of myself and then
and then the collection andwell, we're, I was putting my
time was the second time Ilearned that lesson.
Arthi Rabikrisson (10:23):
Right? Okay, I'm gonna give you you've given
us so much already just in thatintro. I know, there's so many
things swelling in my mind rightnow. And I think, you know, I
love the fact that you mentionedthe example of you know, when
things were going well, but thensuddenly wasn't. And you're kind
of having to now think about,you know, well, how do I
actually put food on the table,how to actually make sure that
(10:45):
my kids are fine. And thenhaving someone who was an
advocate and a believer in you,actually showing you a pivot
area to go into. And as you saidearlier, you know, a space where
you didn't know anything thatwasn't where you you knew or
where you had your backgroundwas, but you just kind of dove
into it. And you learned, youknow, the question that was
(11:08):
coming up for me for and I thinkthis happens with many of us is,
how does one do that? How doesone actually find the courage to
go into uncharted territory.
Because it seems so scary. Andyou I mean, you give us one
example of, of you doing this,but you've done this over and
over and over again. So despitethe imposter syndrome, there
(11:28):
that rears its head, despite thelack of self confidence, what is
it? Is there a secretingredient? Or what is it? Is it
a mindset that actually gave youthat little bit of a push to
say, I'm gonna give it a try?
Gifford Pinchot (11:42):
I think, you know, I think that there's
desperation behind that. So I'llgive you, I'll give you I'll
give you an example, that doesnot involve financial
desperation. So I, when, at whenwe, you know, I was a Silicon
Valley CEO, at an Internetsecurity company, and when when
(12:04):
we sold that company, we werequite well off. And, and so that
led to a soul searching of,okay, if making money is not
what I have to do, what should Ibe doing, and it and I felt
very, very strongly about theclimate change challenge, and
wanted to do something about it.
And so we sat down and said,Well, what were the leverage
(12:29):
points, you know, we couldbecome investors in Climate
Technology, but we weren't thatrich to make a huge difference.
And, and there were a lot ofpeople who are doing that. We
could become activists and yellat the corporation's about what
they needed to do and there werea lot of people doing that. And
(12:54):
it didn't seem that one more wasgoing to make much difference.
We could try to changegovernment policy. But there
were a lot of people doing thatand, and, you know, there was
some backlash against that itdidn't seem that pushing harder
in that direction was somethingthat we were particularly
(13:19):
prepared for. And then there wasbusiness education and what we
were noticing is that the peoplein business, were being educated
to believe that it was immoralto do anything for your
employees, or to anything foryour customers beyond what you
needed to sell them a product orto do anything for the community
(13:44):
in which you lived or to doanything for the planet, all of
that was considered immoral,literally, because you're sole
duty as an employee is to workfor the shareholders and make
them rich and nothing elsematters. And we thought a
society built on that principleis basically going to the
(14:08):
crater. I mean that that can'twork out and it and it wasn't
working out. Society was notaddressing climate change. It
was not addressing poverty, itwas not addressing the issues
that really mattered. And so wethought we went to business
schools and said, Well, youknow, we were in a position to
(14:32):
make a donation, can we fund alittle something to get going,
the idea of sustainability, andsocial justice in business
education, and they all laughedat us, except for the professors
that cared about those things.
(14:53):
And they said, Whatever you do,don't get to come here. We're
getting killed. Every time weget we talk about that it, we're
in trouble. So we said, well,the only thing we can do about
this is to start our own schooland demonstrate to the business
(15:13):
education community that you canhave other values, and that your
graduates will still be hired.
And that and that your studentswill still come to you even
though making the most moneypossible is not what you're
offering, because you'd dobetter to go to Harvard if
that's what you want. And, andour friends all got together and
(15:38):
ran an intervention. They tookus out to dinner, and they said,
if you continue with this stupididea of trying to start a
business school, I mean peopledon't Just start schools, what
are you talking about , and youwill lose your inherit your
(15:58):
retirement fund and your health.
And for you shouldn't do this.
And so we decided to do itanyway, because I think of this
desperation is we had to dosomething to stop climate change
and we had found a leverage whenwhere we thought we could make a
(16:18):
difference. And our goal was,first of all, to educate our
students so that they could goout and transform big
organizations and start venturesand so forth, but also to be an
example to other businessschools. So they would
eventually come to be more likeus. And our very success was our
(16:42):
failure. Because we not onlysucceeded in that first one, I
mean, yesterday, I was talkingto the head of sustainability at
IBM, who was one of ourgraduates and so forth. But we
also talked to the otherbusiness schools, who kept
coming and studying what we weredoing into starting
(17:06):
sustainability programs of theirown. Pretty soon elite business
schools were offering whatlooked like it was the same
thing we were offering, exceptthat they had the credibility
of, you know, long establishedpresence and at that point,
when this really began to be aproblem, we were maybe five or
(17:30):
six years old, we had grownrapidly. We had won all kinds of
prizes, our graduates werebeating the elite business
schools, in business planningcompetitions, and so forth. But
it got harder and harder to getstudents because, you know,
people being somewhat careful inhow they use their lives, they
(17:55):
were beginning to go to theseother schools instead of us. And
there was a long period werekeeping the school alive was a
very stressful period of havingto go out and fund a million
dollars a year. And, and thatbecame became wearing, I began
(18:15):
to have heart problems and wejust barely succeeded in merging
with Presidio rather than goingout of business. And after that,
I got cancer. And and so of allthe predictions that our friends
had made came true, we hadbasically burned burned through
(18:35):
our retirement and supportingthe school and we and there I
found myself and my family,again, not really knowing how we
were going to support ourselvesand out and not knowing what we
were supposed to do to make adifference in the world. And
(18:56):
through a friend who happened tohave been the roommate of
someone who ran a largeconstruction firm, his
construction firm was havingtrouble in permitting and he
didn't understand the nonprofitenvironmental organizations that
were attacking his projects. Andso he hired us to talk to those
(19:20):
people because we were comingfrom the side of the business
which had long roots andenvironmentalism and those sorts
of things and thought that hewould be be able to talk to
those people. And this hasturned out to be a, a very
fulfilling kind of work. We, forexample, there was a waste to
(19:44):
hydrogen facility in Richmond,California, and it was really
struggling Richmond, theRichmond City Council are are
very progressive. The RichmondCity itself is very anti
industry. Chevron has been therefor over 100 years, polluting
the air and so they do not thinkof anyone building a any kind of
(20:08):
an industrial facility in thattown is a good idea. At least
the bulk population, of course,they're all people who work at
Chevron, but they may not livein Richmond. And so we took on
this project, and we went toRichmond and we started talking
(20:28):
to people in the environmentalorganization, they all said just
go home. Don't, don't even tryand when they found out and they
found out that the project was50% owned by Chevron, they said
this is a this is an you willnever you will never succeed. So
(20:49):
we decided to use a differentsystem. Instead of viewing the
environmental organizations asenemies who could be defeated in
court. We viewed them as peopleof good heart who needed to know
more about the project which wasscheduled to clean the air in
(21:10):
Richmond to deliver a very lowcarbon intensity hydrogen to
deal with 24,000 tonnes a yearof food and yard waste that
would otherwise go to Lianlandfill and for methane into
the air, it even made biochar,which could then sequester the
carbon. So when you looked atall the numbers, it was better
(21:34):
than other ways of makinghydrogen. But it was still
tarred with the idea that wedidn't need more industrial
pollution and it and it isnegative on pollution, only
because it gets 60% of itsenergy by shutting down a
flooring of landfill gas, whichwas who in the heck out of the
(21:57):
environment and putting itthrough internal combustion
engines and processing thenonprofit
the idea of how do we get theexhaust. So it was much cleaner
than what was coming out of theflare. It's not that it didn't
put any pollution into the air.
So there was something to attackthere. Well the end result was
(22:22):
that the in environmentalorganizations just decided that
they didn't wish to oppose itanymore. And we got seven out of
seven votes in the Richmond CityCouncil for approving approving
the project. And it was a proofof this idea of collaborating
(22:42):
nonprofits and the people whoare building technology to deal
with the nonprofits, and reallylistening to them, and really
answering their questions. Forexample, Raven, before this was
with climate together toactually talk to each other,
rather than meeting in court.
How do we form a dialogue andover, had spent a million
dollars doing studies to provethat the numbers which they were
giving the nonprofits were, inthat is how when we bounce back,
so my situation that was prettyfact, correct. And, you know,
(23:03):
one of them was a health riskdire. While I survived the
cancer, I, my first response wasassessment that said, Well, this
is going to reduce cancer anddisease in Richmond, because
it's cleaning the air. And, andto co write a novel on how the
climate future could work outso that kind of approach in
which you said, Well, we'rereally going to take your
concerns seriously. Thewell to try to bring hope to all
(23:23):
the young people who arenonprofit's said that no one has
ever listened to us before. Thisbasically have given up. 50% of
people between 16 and 25 believeis ridiculous. And so that's our
current belief system is that wethat humanity is doomed and, are
depressed about it, well, Ihave to get a system basically
permitting, is slowing downwould be depressed about that,
too, if I if humanity is doomed,climate mitigation technology.
Bill Mckibben recently said,and I think we have hard times
(23:43):
ahead. But I think humanity willyou know, the environmental
organizations have become verysurvive and will come to its
senses. And so we're working on,good at saying no to projects,
but the climate change is nowon making that happen. And one
particular sector, which is thesufficiently dire, that they
have to learn to say yes toenvironmental community, you
know, seeing how theenvironmental community can be
more supportive of doing whatthings rather than saying no,
they have to become good atneeds to be done in climate and,
(24:04):
and making the permittingsaying yes, rather than good at
saying no, and helping theprocess basically, less
litigious, and morethings that need to be happening
to happen.
collaborative.
Arthi Rabikrisson (24:15):
Okay, so that's what you're busy with
currently then Giffard
Gifford Pinchot (24:19):
Yeah,
Arthi Rabikrisson (24:20):
yeah.
Gifford Pinchot (24:21):
And unfortunately, we're being paid
to do it. So that's that's allin the the
Arthi Rabikrisson (24:28):
financial desperation component, but you
know, as you will as he wastalking through this, you know,
this real life, you know, storyof what you've gone through, you
know, we spoke about that almostthat purposeful desperation
because, you know, fie thebusiness school sort of starting
out there was the real need toactually get as you were saying,
(24:50):
you know, in the educationsystem, that awareness around
sustainability and then off youwent and you did the school, and
then as you said, success, yoursuccess became you downfall
because suddenly all the bignames your Ivy League's are
starting to, to bring this onboard because there's a
realization that this issomething that needs to be
looked at. But then you knowwhere you're at now, it almost
(25:15):
sounds as if you've kind oflike, leveled, leveled up even
more in in this area that you'reworking in now around the
permits and preventinglitigation in the space through
the nonprofit. So I'm almostgetting a sense that in, in
finding your mojo through allthese different phases, it's
it's getting you to an evencrisper level of your purpose
(25:38):
and even crisper level ofexactly where you're needed to
be at this point in time. Wouldthat be would that be accurate?
Gifford Pinchot (25:46):
Ya. I mean, I will say that I think when we're
running the business school, wewere where we needed to be at
that time Yeah. And And now, wesound in other high leverage, we
found another high leveragepoint in climate mitigation, we
(26:07):
found out where the system isjammed up, because now, money is
not really the problem infunding climate mitigation.
There's, there's governmentmoney, there's all kinds of of
investors who are interested inthis, that it doesn't go any
good to have money if you can'tactually build the technology.
And if you can't, if you gettied up in court for years, that
(26:32):
makes the financial prospects ofinvesting in Climate Technology
much more iffy, and much, muchless profitable. So, you know,
we found a place that needs worknow, is this is this better than
other places we've been in ourlives? I don't know about that.
It is, but it is good. And whenyou're, you know, 80 years old
(26:55):
and unemployed, good is a kindof a good place to find
yourself. We'll see how, wherethis goes. I mean, we certainly
succeeded in one situation nowwe're trying to deal more
generally with a situation bychanging the minds of people and
(27:16):
getting people to see this needto switch from no to yes. And it
remains to be seen whether wecan do that. We're in the very
early stages. By the way, we'restarting a podcast as part of
our re education now. And thisgiven us I mean, I think it's
(27:36):
one, it's a wonderful ideapodcasting, because you get to
talk to interesting people.
Arthi Rabikrisson (27:41):
Absolutely absolutely now and potentially
reach those people that need tobe galvanized into action again
You know, from your research,you were saying 50% of your the
target population that'sactually going to change things
for the better, we need to getthem galvanized again. So
podcast, definitely,
Gifford Pinchot (28:00):
you know, the, I'd like to say that there are
three things that you can doabout climate change, there's
denial, there's depression, andthere's doing something about
it. And, and one of our goals,obviously, is to move people
from that doing from depressionto doing something about it and
maybe we took to move peoplefrom denial also, to doing
(28:23):
something about it.
Arthi Rabikrisson (28:25):
What are we?
What are we able to actuallyachieve? Absolutely. Okay, so
give it I guess, we were comingclose to the end of our
conversation, but then such awonderful conversation to be
having, because we're talkingabout bouncing back. We're
talking about environmentaljustice, we're talking about
climate change, and so manydifferent things. But I think
maybe there's so many listenersand you know, when I was sharing
(28:48):
this before we startedrecording, there's so many
listeners that reach out to meto say, we really struggling,
we've had a setback, we don'tknow how to get back up again.
Or if we're getting back upagain, we're fearful that we're
going to fall back down andwe're not sure if we can take
the next step. So if you havemaybe one piece of advice, a key
piece of advice that you couldmaybe share with our listeners
(29:11):
today about how they canactually stick with it, how they
can keep on going on, findingand also getting back up on
their feet, getting their mojoback. What would you say to
them?
Gifford Pinchot (29:25):
Finding a purpose that's bigger than
yourself. So if you go back to,you know, for example, starting
to school, yeah. You asked meearlier, werent you a little
afraid, you're trying I mean,you're you're trying to start a
whole new graduate school andwith all the problems of
(29:50):
accreditation and funding andand so forth, what, what made
you do that? And the answer is,well, we had a very, very strong
purpose, and the purpose, thentook over. It said, it's alright
to do this because, you know,we're living in a time, I mean,
(30:10):
this is just me personally, butwe're living in a time when the
planet is being destroyed, or atleast the, I mean, the rock is
still gonna be here, but thelife on the planet is there
huge, huge, huge wave ofextinctions taking place. And,
and, and there's huge flow ofrefugees where their their land
(30:34):
that is no longer can supportthem. And there will be billions
of refugees at the rate we'regoing not to be doing something
about it would have been totallyunacceptable. My wife uses the
term moral injury, to discusswhat's going on in our society
today. So this, this term wasnot coined by her it was coined
(30:59):
by people dealing with peoplefrom PTSD coming back from from
the wars. And it was discoveredthat the real problem they had
was not the injuries that theyhad sustained. The real problem
was some of the injuries thatthey had caused, and other
people that they looking at whothey really were, or did not
believe that that was okay. So,you know, whether it's bombing a
(31:25):
village or you know, firefightand you notice that you're
killing women and children arewhatever it might be, and you
can't live with yourself. And toa degree, those of us who are
really awake at this time, werecognize that on our watch, the
earth is going to hell. And ifwe're not doing everything we
(31:47):
can to to to stop that, then weare sustaining a moral injury.
We are we are not feeling goodabout ourselves because of the
fact that we're complicit inwhat's going on. And we are all
complicit in what's going on,you know, how to have the why
(32:08):
get to the grocery store? Theanswer is I drive my car
Arthi Rabikrisson (32:12):
whihc is emitting cans of carbons, and
that has impact on
Gifford Pinchot (32:16):
Ya, you and I are burning are burning
electricity at the moment, etcetera, et cetera, every every
act we take. And so, if youhave, if you can find out what
you're really fired up about,then you almost don't need
courage to do it. Because notdoing it would be worse. And
(32:43):
and, and it lifts you up?
Arthi Rabikrisson (32:45):
Yeah, you're right. I mean, as you say, it
fires you up, literally. So nomatter what else is going on,
because that burning desire isin you, that just propels you to
do it. I like that.
Gifford Pinchot (32:57):
Different people have different burning
desires. i Yeah, it doesn't haveto be climate, obviously, it
could be childhood education. Itcould be making something in a
better way it could be dealingwith poverty and, and social
justice issues. There are allkinds of causes in this in this
(33:20):
world. And you can you cancombine them as, as, as we have
with ways of generating revenue.
I mean, we were right now wefound a way to get paid to make
the changes we want to make. Andso I think that's the challenge
we all face but as if, if you'refeeling down and out, and that
(33:44):
somehow, you know, there aretimes in my life when toward the
end of the intrapreneurshipthought period, which was a you
know, it was a really good ridewith the fortune 100 just
calling us up and demanding thatwe speak to the. We reached a
point when DuPont called us upand said you got to come down to
(34:06):
Wilmington, and talk to us aboutintrapreneur and I said we don't
make house calls. You have tocome here. Now. I mean, you have
to realize what I mean. That waskind of nuts, a lot of its, but
Arthi Rabikrisson (34:24):
Ya quite cheeky
Gifford Pinchot (34:26):
But that the phone was ringing off the hook.
So that that would that was agood time. But then years later,
when we had done numerousinterventions in larger
organizations and set upintrapreneurial programs only to
have the CEO come in and undoeverything that we had done. A
(34:46):
new CEO who didn't understandwhat was happening. Yeah, it
became a bitter period. Iremember holding up in the attic
of over our garage and and andwriting, because I couldn't show
my face in a corporation becauseI knew what I, what I had to
say, would be so radical that Iwould never be invited back
(35:12):
again.
Arthi Rabikrisson (35:13):
You would literally be lighting your fire
under them that they would notlike I can imagine that.
Gifford Pinchot (35:20):
So, you know, things have their arc and then
that became not the thing to doanymore. Yeah. And we had to get
out of serving corporations andinto serving individuals. We'll
know the individuals who we haveconvinced that they can, in
fact, make a living, stillcaring about sustainability, and
(35:43):
now go out and get good shotsdoing that, they are not going
to revert, they're not suddenlygoing to go back to saying, Oh,
I don't care about this anymore.
They're going to continue forthe rest of their lives, making
the world better. And, and sothat move was had to take place,
because of the experience we haddealing directly with
corporations. What was that,like that didn't have the
(36:05):
permanence we were looking for?
Arthi Rabikrisson (36:08):
Yeah, it really does speak to that
leveling up at each stage, youknow, the more and more as
you're giving us more insightinto, you know, into your life
into the story, I really amseeing that it's that step
change, kind of saying, This iswhat was working at the stage,
time, past experience grew andsuddenly that's not working
anymore. But we stepping,stepping change into a different
(36:29):
era. So I think that's a keything. I think for a lot of the
listeners to remember as well,the way you find yourself right
now, it's probably not space,you're gonna find yourself in a
few years time, let alone even afew months time, because so much
can change in that time. Youknow we have coverd so much
Gifford, Oh, so you want to saysomething
Gifford Pinchot (36:49):
No thats fine
Arthi Rabikrisson (36:51):
I was just gonna say that, you know, we've
covered so much today from, youknow, talking about the topic
around, you know, finding yourmojo bouncing back, but we've
even gone all the way around,you know, talking around
sustainability, around climate,around moral injury around even
that sort of challenge you putin front of everyone to say, you
know, we kind of need to thinkabout this as well, because I've
(37:13):
heard that, that call to action.
And and kind of looping it backtowards, well, if you find
something that fires you up,find that purpose, it's going to
take you places I think that'sbeautiful. Gifford, I want us to
kind of end up on a high notewith our conversation today. I
would love it if you couldshare, you know, in your, in
your experience in your wisdom,something that's maybe just
(37:34):
keeping you and Libba inspiredto keep going to keep making
impact on your journey. It couldbe anything, it could be a poem,
it could be a quote, a songlyric, something spiritual,
whatever is just has been likethis resonating sort of, you
know, underlying belief orthread that keeps you going,
what would you share with us?
Gifford Pinchot (37:56):
Well, yesterday, I was talking to a
young fellow in college, whocalled us up and said, I really,
you know, I, I've been followingyou, I really want to talk to
you. And, and so we talked andone of the things that he found
really useful. He said, I'mtrying to change the university,
(38:18):
but I'm, I'm being blocked. Andone of the things he's that I
said he said, Well, what youhave to do, if you want to move
ahead obviously is make friendswith people who are influential
in the university. And one ofthe ways of doing that is to ask
them for something to which theywill say yes. If you go in and
(38:42):
make a demand, they will saythat they say no to or more say
maybe which means no for themost part that will prejudice
them against you that if you askthem for something that that
they can give you that willprejudice them for you. So I
said ask for the thing, which isthe easiest to give which is
(39:06):
advice and and they will giveyou advice and then they will be
a little bit bought bought intoyour your project. And if you
then try using one of theiradvice, you beliefs and then
come back and offer gratitudethat will make them even more in
in behind your idea. So thisidea of whatever you are trying
(39:29):
to do, you can start out andstart making progress towards
it. If you are willing to biteoff little bits of it rather
than ask for the whole wholething right away and gradually
work up in a series of smallsteps to to getting there and
that that is always open to youwhen you're trying to change
(39:51):
your systems. This what are theHow can you how can you get
people onside by not asking toomuch of them? But let it letting
them help you in some small way,and then a bigger way and then a
bigger way and then a bigger wayas they gradually get bought in.
And I, I think that's generallyuseful and, and it means that
(40:15):
you can always start movingtowards the dream that you have
Arthi Rabikrisson (40:19):
doesn't seem so daunting because you're just
doing a little bit at a time andgetting bigger and bigger as you
go
Gifford Pinchot (40:25):
And I don't mean to suggest that that's
slow. That actually is probablythe fastest way to get ahead,
Arthi Rabikrisson (40:31):
Yeah, Yeah Yeah, because of the way that
mechanism and that loop works interms of potential using that
advice. And if you're able togive feedback quickly and show
gratitude, then suddenly the Askbecomes a little bit more they
offer more quicker. I get whatyou saying, I get it. Yeah,
could be could be a faster wayto than trying to ask for the
big prize and the jackpot all inone go. And they like shut you
(40:54):
down completely. Lovely. GiffordThank you so much. It's been
wonderful having you as a guesttoday with so much of insights,
so much of practical ideas, andalso just sharing from your own
life's journey. I really trulyappreciate it. Thanks for being
on the episode today.
Gifford Pinchot (41:12):
It's been fun.
Thank you so much.
Arthi Rabikrisson (41:14):
My Pleasure, take a care Gifford.
Gifford Pinchot (41:17):
Bye bye.
Arthi Rabikrisson (41:26):
Thank you so much for joining me on this
episode today. If you like whatyou heard, rate, the episode and
podcast. And feel free to writea review. Plus, of course, share
with others too. I love talkingaround topics like these. So if
you live my perspective orinsight in a subject close to
(41:46):
your heart, or something thatyou're grappling with, reach out
to me in your comments or sendme an email via my website or
connected me via LinkedIn,Instagram or Facebook all my
social media on the podcastinformation. If it's important
to you, then it's important too.
So happy listening to theinspire your life podcast and
(42:07):
catch you soon on the nextepisode.
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