April 5, 2023 • 34 mins
In Episode 3 of Season 3, Arthi is joined by Bilal Sununu, a #TashaTen family member based in Saudi Arabia. Bilal is such a gentleman and a deep thinker, brimming with insights and ideas, and always open to sharing his wisdom and expertise.
Bilal was raised in Jordan, in the Arabian Gulf and learned to program computers from his father, in 1982, which ultimately influenced his decision to join the computer science and engineering schools at a leading university in the Middle East. Bilal explains how he has combined his passion for technology and his business mind in order to establish multiple start ups, some of which were great successes, and others were, well, great learning experiences as Bilal says. Bilal's diverse experiences as a result of these waves of successes and extreme downtimes, taught him self-awareness and resilience in this “school of life”.
Bilal offers great insight into how his ecosystem and mindset helped him fight the battle and overcome the difficulties he has faced in his life.
Some wise words from Bilal:
- “not everybody who gives you a comment, or a feedback is against you”
- “...you need to ensure that what people sees in you is not necessarily what happens within yourself…”
- “no person that can get out of a difficulty without the support direct or indirect of others.”
Listen to the full episode for so much more insights and ideas offered by my wonderful guest.
About Bilal Sununu:
Bilal is a business owner, investor, and coach who is known for his passion of creating positive change in businesses and lives through the implementation of technology. As one of the founding members of Microsoft’s operations in Saudi Arabia, and having been appointed General Manager in 2001, he was a part of over 100 technology project implementations. This gave Bilal a deep understanding of, and interest in, corporate DNA and the dynamics of how companies operate.
Connect with Bilal Sununu here:
Do rate, write a review and share with others.
Share too, your own insights from your journey based on themes from the episode - what has worked or hasn't for you. We can all learn from each other.
Connect with host Arthi here:
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Arthi Rabikrisson (00:15):
Hello, everyone, and welcome to the
inspire your life podcast withme your host Arthi Rabikrisson.
I believe we find inspirationall around us, especially from
(00:36):
the stories that we all have inus. My aim with the inspire your
life podcast is to bring some ofthose real stories to light.
Stories of my guests thatresonate with you and me .It's
by listening to these storiesthat we can be inspired and
motivate ourselves to overcomefind a new path and rise even
(01:02):
higher than we thought possible.
Joining me on the show today isBilal Sununu. My Tasha 10 family
member based in Saudi Arabia.
Bilal is such a gentleman and adeep thinker, bream brimming
with ideas and insights. And Ireally love the way Bilal is
(01:26):
able to connect the dots, soeasily. Bilal is a business
owner and investor and a coachwho is known for his passion of
creating positive change inbusinesses and lives through the
implementation of technology. Soin case you didn't know, he's
one of the founding members ofMicrosoft's operations in Saudi
Arabia, and he was actuallyappointed the GM there in 2000.
(01:49):
And in one, and he was also partof over 100, technology project
implementation. So the expertiseand experience is deep. So this
is given Bilal a really, reallyphenomenal understanding and
interest in the corporate DNAand dynamics of how companies
actually operate. So it's nowonder then that you know, since
(02:10):
going on his own, Bilal now hasestablished multiple startups
focusing on improving verticalbusiness processes, and
basically helping organizationsimprove their businesses too.
Some were great successes, andothers were well, great learning
experiences as Bilal says. Andin addition to this, his own
(02:31):
ventures Bilal has been a partof more than 15 startups as a
coach or an advisor to thefounders in order to support
their journey. Bilal also saysthat with his diversified
experience, you know, goingthrough these several waves of
successes and extreme downtimes,that these were actually the
(02:53):
best sources of learnings andself awareness. And the school
of life, as he says, has grantedBilal a degree in resilience and
bounce back competencies. SoBilal, you know, that makes you
the perfect person to shareabout our topic today, which is
on the art of battlingdifficulties. Bilal welcome it
(03:13):
is such a pleasure to have youon the podcast today.
Bilal Sununu (03:19):
Oh, thank you, Arthi. It's really an honor to
be part of this great podcast,and I look forward to having
really fun during thisdiscussion.
Arthi Rabikrisson (03:32):
Oh, absolutely. Fun is the word.
Because we're gonna get to knowmore about you, what you've
learned and I'll obviously sharea little bit on my side, too.
But Bilal, I mean, just goingthrough a little bit of that
profile of yours. I mean,there's so much that was very
surface level, there's so muchmore depth. I'd love it. If you
could share a bit more aboutyour background with all of our
(03:54):
listeners. Tell us more aboutwho Bilal is.
Bilal Sununu (03:56):
Okay, so I come from a family. I was raised in
Jordan and the Arabian Gulf.
Okay, I learned how to programcomputers at a very early stage
of technology, which is 1982 83.
And was because of my father'sand that basically, somehow
(04:21):
influenced my decision to jointhe computer science and
computer engineering schools inone of the leading universities
here in the Middle East. Oh, byprofession, I enjoy technology,
but then technology on its ownpeople look at it as as as as
(04:41):
kind of a destination and forme, I enjoy helping them to
merge it into their businessesand use it as a tool as opposed
to being a destination and thisis becoming a passion so helping
businesses to leveragetechnologies to improve their
(05:02):
businesses is really the mixbetween both backgrounds, my
business background and mytechnology backgrounds. So to
get to break this rhythm ofdaily work, I love to go through
some, let's say refreshingmoments typically. So I love
sports. I'm not a sports fan
Arthi Rabikrisson (05:24):
What's your favorite?
Bilal Sununu (05:25):
So I run. So I participate in basic marathon I
play, I participate intriathlons, which is basically
bicycles, swimming, and runningand used to play used to be
Taekwondo team member of theUniversity team. So I enjoy also
(05:49):
the martial arts. But that'slike, these are the hobbies that
helps me to break. Now with age,okay. So I'm 54, I started to
find out that we also wasted alot of time away from the
family. So now with my kids, 25,23 and 14, my wife and I are
(06:10):
also enjoying spending qualitytime together. So now kids are
like, no more kids. So you speakto them you are friends. And
these are like some of theenjoyable time we always have.
So I love spending time with thefamily. I love breaking the work
rhythm by doing some of thestuff I like, the words I hate.
(06:36):
Okay, if someone tells me don'tworry, that uses me. And it's
like, okay, I have to worry.
Don't say don't worry, becauseDon't worry, things will not
move forward. So I dislikedthis word, I dislike that, that
the the habit of self defendingI mean, not everybody who gives
(06:59):
you a comment, or a feedback isagainst you. And you're not
obliged to even justify what youdid, just listen and say thank
you. So other than that, Imean, just having simple, simple
as they say, life, I mean,enjoying work, enjoying the
(07:22):
hobbies, enjoying your time.
Arthi Rabikrisson (07:26):
You make you really do make it sound so
simple. I mean, spending,quality time on things that
matter. And things that give youa break away from just work
because I think in the kind oflifestyle, even the post
pandemic world that we live in,not everyone has found that
balance Bilal. And it soundslike you've achieved it. And,
you know, I love the littlenuggets that you've also just
(07:48):
given us now about how we shouldactually approach feedback and
criticism. And and you know,everything doesn't necessarily,
as you said need to be defended.
It's sometimes just feedback asprovided. And a simple thank
you. And a reflection afterwardsis probably what's most useful.
And I'm wondering, you know,given our topic for today, is
that probably one of the thingsthat's really helped you in
(08:09):
terms of managing difficulties.
So I'd love it, if you couldmaybe take us back to any of
your challenges that you facedover these sort of wonderful
for you. And just to give us abit of that backstory.
Bilal Sununu (08:30):
So I mean, let me start by saying you need to
ensure that what people sees inyou is not necessarily what
happens within yourself, the wayyou typically need to think and
behave. Although this is easilysaid, that shouldn't be highly
(08:50):
emotionally influenced by theinner situation that you are
living in. You don't need to beproblem free or challenge free
for you to smile and say,Listen, I'm happy and I don't
feel I have any issues. Sobasically, I didn't get into
(09:15):
this point easily. Okay. So mybiggest challenge that I had, I
enjoyed a very, very successfulcareer. So as a person, I did
have the privilege to meet someof the key technology leaders
around the world that includedBill G, Bill Gates and others
(09:36):
from other organizations.I gotthey gave me the opportunity to
become a general manager at theage of 30, which is too young
for a person to manage entiresubsidiary, but then I did face
some difficulties when I steppedout of my corporate world, which
(09:59):
which I benefited benefited frombut it wasn't me. So I don't
like working for corporates ingeneral. It's not a bad thing.
It's just my nature. That's whatI found out. So I gave away my
job. And when I started my ownbusiness, a few things harsh,
started to show up that weretough lessons, okay, but really
(10:25):
imposed their influence on therest on even my relationship
with people. So one, some peoplereally respect your seat. So
when you are a GM of a largecompany, or large multinational
company, okay, or you have ahighly influential position, you
will see people, respecting yougiving you privilege whenever
(10:49):
you get into public meeting,calling you on the occasions and
then whenever you leave thatinfluence, you discover who
loves you, or who cares aboutyou as a person, and who
respected you as a person versuswho respected you as a position.
And that wasn't an easy thing tohandle, considering that I had
(11:14):
tons of contacts that by leavingMicrosoft kind of stopped the
typical way of dealing with me,because they were respecting my
position not respecting me as aperson. Then, of course, I mean,
I did go through multiplebusiness, let's say
(11:35):
difficulties. And financially, Igot broke. So I lost a massive
amount of money. So, so this islike the biggest difficulty
because it affected everything,everything around your entire
personal ecosystem,your firstecosystem is your community,
(11:59):
your social life, your family,your dependents, everything, so
losing a lot of money. I mean,giving away my house wasn't an
easy thing to go through. Iwouldn't say I was smiling
(12:19):
through it. But then it was avery good learning experience.
To start with, he showed me thereal wife, because she supported
me during that. It showed mereal friends who actually
supported me through that. Okay.
So you need to take some radicalmeasures that could hurt for you
(12:44):
to move forward. So I mean, forexample, animals, like snails
would give away their tail togain their lives by. Okay. So
really, as a human being, youcan't you need to take sometimes
tough decisions in order to moveforward. And I had to do that I
(13:04):
had to let go some of my assets,I had to let go some of my
properties. I mean, end of theday, you just need to move
forward. So did I have the samelevel of thinking before getting
into the difficulties? No. Okay.
(13:29):
But then, I would say Arthi,less than 10% of your contact
list that lies in your phone, orpeople that you can count on as
real friends and family
Arthi Rabikrisson (13:45):
That's really stark. And I mean, that's a
that's a reality that you'resort of suggesting you faced,
but also, potentially all of usare facing in that way. That's
exactly a bitter pill to sort ofswallow, isn't it? To think that
that's actually the case?
Bilal Sununu (14:01):
So basically, that's about the challenges we
have run through and I mean, youstructuring your thinking,
accepting self sacrifice. Okay.
I was lucky with the family andthe few percentage of people on
my contact list that I classifytoday as real good friends. Did
(14:21):
we finish all the challenges?
No, I mean, it's just thattoday, people have different
stages of their life or career,they classify things
differently. So not being ableto have a sip of coffee early
morning could be a disaster fora young person who just started
(14:45):
the her or his career. Okay, butthen it becomes less of an issue
as age and experience moveforward. I mean, so basically,
what I'm saying here is I usethis as. As a metaphor, certain
issues that I would classify asdifficulties at the start of my
(15:07):
career are not today are notclassified today as
difficulties. They're just asclassified as life goes on, or
things that you need to handletoday. So the more you handle
difficulties, the more theclassification of difficulties,
okay gets narrower, and thingswith issues I can handle or
(15:32):
accommodate gets wider. Really,you panic less, you think
better, you don't look atyourself as a victim of issues
because you widen the scope ofissues that you can handle and
narrow the scope of the ofissues that you classify as real
(15:55):
difficulties.
Arthi Rabikrisson (15:56):
Okay, great sounds, it sounds as if you're,
you're saying, you know, with,with age, almost kind of that
wisdom around what's possibleand how to achieve it.
Bilal Sununu (16:05):
But it's not only about age, it's also I mean, you
could be 30 years old, but youhave seen so many things that
experiences. So really, it'sreally the, let's say, the, it's
not about the age only becauseyou see people who are 60, and
still treat a basic issue as abig difficulty. Okay, it's
(16:28):
really about the mindset ofhandling things.
Arthi Rabikrisson (16:32):
Well, I'm glad you're touching on that.
Because as you were you andthank you, firstly, for sharing,
you know, some of those reallydeep, difficult challenges that
you experienced at that time.
And what was going through mymind was, you know, what sort of
a mindset do you need todevelop, to actually push
yourself out of that situation?
So, I mean, you deliberatelytook steps, as you said, you
(16:55):
know, to, to let go of certainthings. But that must have been
very, very hard to do. We knowwhat what sort of mindset in
that you developed enable you todo that, and to get past it and
to grow from it.
Bilal Sununu (17:09):
So art is scientifically I don't know how
to classify it. But let me tellyou one thing, the role of the
role of sub I mean, there is no,there is no person that can get
out of a difficulty without thesupport direct or indirect of
others.
(17:30):
But the first mindset you need,despite me saying that, the
first thing you need to know todo is not to expect a lot from
people. And it's even better notto expect anything from people.
Because the minute you start toexpect you will get
disappointed, right? And thenthe minute you start to expect
you will get be less active toresolve your problem because
(17:51):
you're expecting someone tosupport you.
Arthi Rabikrisson (17:54):
Okay, yeah, you're right.
Bilal Sununu (17:55):
But then once you're out of fear of your
issues, or you have I mean, Iwouldn't say you, no one will
ever be out of an issue, he willjust have a clear visibility to
what's happening and to how heor she or he would move forward.
So that clarity once it occursinto your mind, I mean, no human
(18:17):
being on Earth is issue ordifficulty free.
You start to see people whosupported you behind the scene,
okay, silently, or whoproactively presented
constructive kinds of support.
Is that pushed you forward? Yes.
But in your mindset, don'texpect it. Because the minute
(18:41):
you expect that my best friendis going to help me through
this. And he doesn't, forwhatever reason, whether he had
a valid reason or not, I will bedisappointed. And that
disappointment will affect myinner, let's say, productivity
(19:04):
or efficiency.
Arthi Rabikrisson (19:05):
Absolutely.
Absolutely. It almost might evenput you in a state of inertia in
terms of now what where do I go?
Where do I start? So that stateof inaction to get things done,
I hear you.
Bilal Sununu (19:18):
So the only thing I would say don't expect
anything from anyone, no one isgoing to scratch your back other
than your own hand and fingers.
And you know, you will see a lotof people that you never
expected them to support you.
You will just basically see someother people that you expected
them to support you as just thatany any. Anything that happens
(19:42):
to you from a supportperspective will become a
pleasant surprise that will pushyou forward and the lack of
support will never be a negativepoint that basically creates an
inner friction. That doesn'tgive you clear visibility.
Arthi Rabikrisson (19:59):
Right right and that visibility is so
important, as you're trying tosit, as you said, you know,
you're trying to figure out waysto emerge from difficulty, you
know, and potentially, as yousaid, not letting it go
completely, but at least gettingto a better step up, or a better
position than what we werepreviously. But you know, but
(20:19):
also, sometimes people findthemselves beset with one
difficulty. Another difficulty,like it almost just continues.
And I know of people who feellike, Oh, my goodness, what's
actually happened? Yeah, and,you know, when when we speak in
Hindi will say it's kharaabKismat, which I completely
understand, right? They say thebad luck, that there's so many
things happening to them oneafter the other, that they lose
(20:41):
energy, they lose focus, andthings just start to spiral
downwards. In that sort ofsituation. I mean, how would you
suggest somebody find thatenergy, whether it's from within
or external? How do they findthat energy to continue to
persevere and kind of know thatthere is light at the end of the
tunnel at the end of the day?
Bilal Sununu (21:02):
See, I mean, to me, number one, is what I told
you don't expect anything fromanyone. Yeah. And then, I mean,
life is full of surprises. Imean, what guarantees that if
someone gets into the car, Godforbid, they wouldn't get into a
pump or a car down or anaccident? Or? That's right. Just
(21:25):
that your mind. I mean, I thinkthe mind should be happy with
the fact that you're going toface a pump, and you just need
to know how to pass through it.
Of course, an element of innerfaith is important as well,
because I mean, nothing happensfor no reason. And you're not a
(21:45):
victim. I mean, whether someonebelieves in God or, or believes
in some other kind of powers, Imean, end of the day, I mean,
God is not playing against you.
I mean, it's just that this is ascenario of life, you're dealing
with that and you the quality oflife you get is in creating,
(22:11):
accommodate in accepting thefact that you need to handle
difficulties as they come out,and that you don't know what's
coming in the future. So youbetter mean, can you tell me
what your what, what would Iface end of today as a
(22:31):
difficulties? I don't know, Imean, weather today will end
with something good or bad. ButI mean, it's like, just your
mind has to be ready withwhatever is going to happen.
Enjoy that moment. And thathandle moment.
Arthi Rabikrisson (22:46):
And that's what I'm hearing. So you're
talking about that being presentin the moment. So yes, there's a
difficulty upon you, there's achallenge upon you, but I loved
the way you framed it in termsof this is just a scenario of
what's happening in a person'slife. And in fact, there could
be other things beyond it. Andjust one little action could
(23:07):
cascade into something thattakes you to someplace better,
but you know, sort of be in thatmoment and realize it is just a
moment, it will pass becausethere'll be other moments and
hopefully beautiful momentsbecause of some action. So I, I
get that. And that's resonatingwith me a lot in terms of what
you're saying. So Bilal I kindof also want to understand how
much of this was part of yourjourney in terms of overcoming
(23:28):
challenges, so the mindset, thenot expecting, or not having
expectations of others to cometo you to be surprised with
those sort of the key thingsthat helped you to eventually
emerge out of that thosedifficult circumstances that you
felt at that time? Were thereany other lessons that came out
of it for you?
Bilal Sununu (23:47):
Really, it's like, so let me tell you an advantage
I got out of it. Okay. Yeah, my,let's say, I mean, I like to
call them kids, they're not kidsof course. So, my eldest son is
25 My second daughter is 23. Andmy youngest daughter is 14. So
now, they I mean, so oneadvantage. So, just for the sake
(24:12):
of i know you asked about thelessons learned, but one
advantage and that we talk aboutthe advantage of the
disadvantages we want is that mykids developed handling
difficulties because theysuffered through this with me.
So if I again something isbasically the amount of
(24:33):
experience they got with thewith no cash with the some of
the issues I went into with,with getting out of their own
home to an apartment. All thosekinds of difficulties missing
three years of college becauseof whatever financial reasons I
had to go through, etc. I mean,they developed an excellent,
(24:59):
let's say, a resilience thathelped them up at a very early
age. So, and I and they speakabout it as one.
Arthi Rabikrisson (25:10):
Okay, so they're not hiding away from
what sort of happened. But okay,that's beautiful.
Bilal Sununu (25:16):
So lesson learned, coming back to your question is,
if you have mature children,okay, at an age where they can
relate to what you're goingthrough, one of the best areas
you would ever get in supportingyou during your tough journey is
their understanding to whatyou're going through. So
(25:36):
transparency within the familyis extremely important.
Arthi Rabikrisson (25:40):
Yeah, that ecosystem, as you mentioned, you
know, it gets it gets affected,and especially your core
ecosystem, as you said, yourwife, your kids, and to have
this as, as an outcome as aresult of that those challenges.
I mean, I think that's reallybeautiful, because I can imagine
the sort of skills and framingof their perspective of the
(26:01):
world around them that it'sactually given them, you know,
at this age now, and I'm sureyou're seeing it as well, in
terms of the decisions thatthey're making the maybe the
questions even that they'reasking, and hopefully, then it's
standing them on an even greaterfoundation towards the goals and
achieving it.
Bilal Sununu (26:18):
Yeah. So it made them more mature than their
actual age with the currentgeneration. I mean, being
coming. The the currentgeneration are coming from a
middle families like us, okay,typically are more away from
difficulties than adisadvantaged family. Right? So
(26:39):
basically, yes, I mean, fromthat angle, we were not a
disadvantaged family, I don'tlike our family that just went
in and went out. But theylearned a lot. And from an
experience perspective, they,they earned a lot.
Arthi Rabikrisson (26:58):
And I think you know, that sometimes some of
the things that we don't realizethe, the, we always talk about
unintended consequences. And wethink of it in a difficult or in
a bad way, should I say rather,but actually, this is an example
of a beautiful, unintendedconsequence, because it's had
such a dramatic positive impactto the family unit, particularly
(27:20):
your kid. And I think wesometimes forget that, that in
difficulties, the sort of thingsdo emerge as well. And it and it
pushes other members in thefamily forward. So I think
that's a beautiful reminder forus to actually keep an eye out
for that too
Bilal Sununu (27:34):
keep crying about, You cannot keep crying about
negative consequences all thetime, you just need to forget
Arthi Rabikrisson (27:41):
Okay, so below what are you currently
working on them for for thisyear, for the rest of the year?
And I know, you know, as youwere saying, difficulties come
and go their waves, theirscenarios, let's call it that,
because I love the way you framethat. Are you in any situation
at the moment? Or is it all kindof looking pretty good? And what
(28:01):
are you looking forward to for2023? What are you hoping for by
the end of the year, let's say?
Bilal Sununu (28:06):
So basically, um, I basically it's like recovery
mode. So they I have a couple ofbusinesses that, of course, I
don't turn both of mybusinesses. So there is a team
who's running their businesses.
So what I love eventsmanagement, we have been in
events management for 20 years,it started as it was never
(28:28):
intended to be a business. Andwe we do a lot of team building
special conferences, etc. Sothat's the thing that we we
would we we are working to makeit a breakthrough year for us.
2023. Okay. So and then my coreis technology, we focus on
(28:50):
family businesses, to help themalign their business needs with
technology investments. I don'tlike to call it we help them to
digitally transform because thisis too strong. I mean, that's
easy. We said it's extremelytough. So here we're talking
more about. We're talking aboutdigitisation and the adoption of
(29:14):
automation that so that'ssomething we like, but then we
decided to go into one singlesector, which is schools. We are
now building a school managementsystem, a cloud based school
management system that willenable schools manage their
admin, staff, student affairsand teacher affairs. We found a
(29:42):
good job on that. Okay. We'rehoping to launch this cloud
service within the coming threemonths. So that's keeping us
busy.
Arthi Rabikrisson (29:55):
Beautiful, beautiful initiatives in the
different spaces that you'reinvolved in excellentto here
Bilal and wishing you absolutethe best in terms of attaining
those breakthroughs andimmersing into the school sort
of system with this, I'm sureit's going to be highly, highly
useful to all of them.
Bilal I want to check in withyou again? I mean, because there
was such beautiful nuggets ofwisdom that I think you've
(30:17):
imparted as part of ourconversation today. And I want
to maybe in one final piece,sort of what would be the key
advice that you would want toeither share or extend out with
our listeners today about, youknow, if, if they're still in
that evolving, findingthemselves, in a difficult
situation, trying to pickthemselves up? What would you
(30:39):
offer to them as that key keyadvice?
Bilal Sununu (30:41):
Don't expect a lot from people, no one is going to
get you out of your ditch exceptyourself. But then loyal people
will follow once you start totake actions.
Arthi Rabikrisson (30:52):
Yeah, I mean, you've reiterated this a few
times. So I was sort of thinkingthat that is probably one of the
key things, I'm definitelytaking away from that. And it's
very candid, you know, because alot of the time we do have that
expectation that you know,somebody is going to be there to
help me. And sometimes we feelit's somebody who's close in our
ecosystem. But as you said, forwhatever reason, they've got
(31:15):
other priorities, they've gotother things going on. And at
the time that you need them,they're not there, they're not
able to be there, but somebodywho you hadn't thought of
surprises you and is able tocome in and adjust and assist.
So I think it's also I guess,what you're saying is be open to
creating the action for yourselfand open to opportunities to see
where people may surprise you interms of how they can assist and
(31:37):
I like that I really really likethat as we're coming to the end
of our conversation today Bilal.
I'd love it if you could sharesomething that really really
inspires you to keep movingforward keeps you ignited keeps
you doing all these wonderfulthings that you do it could be a
poem, something spiritual, aquote, just something that you
love that you know is your pickme up. What would you share with
(32:00):
us?
Bilal Sununu (32:01):
Never complain about a wound that exists in
your body.
Arthi Rabikrisson (32:06):
Like that?
What does it mean for you
Bilal Sununu (32:09):
Look at the mirror and handle it. Handle your your
own issues and just don'tvictimize your mind. Don't
don't operate under a victimmind. I mean, you have a wand.
Don't complain about it.
Arthi Rabikrisson (32:26):
Right. Okay, powerful.
Bilal Sununu (32:28):
We That is part of a Arabic famous
poem.
Arthi Rabikrisson (32:31):
Okay.
Beautiful, beautiful Bilal. It'sbeen such a pleasure chatting
with you today. Thank you somuch for sharing with all of us,
and wishing you success in yourjourney.
Bilal Sununu (32:44):
Thank you, Arthi.
Thank you for giving me thisopportunity to share things. I
really enjoyed the discussionand it was an honor to be part
of your podcast.
Arthi Rabikrisson (32:53):
It's my absolute pleasure, you take it
below.
Bilal Sununu (32:56):
Thank you.
Arthi Rabikrisson (32:57):
Thank you.
Bye.
Thank you so much for joining meon this episode today. If you
like what you heard, rate, theepisode and podcast. And feel
free to write a review. Plus, ofcourse, share with others too.
(33:21):
I love talking around topicslike these. So if you live my
perspective or insight in asubject close to your heart, or
something that you're grapplingwith, reach out to me in your
comments or send me an email viamy website, or connected me via
LinkedIn, Instagram or Facebook,or my social media on the
podcast information.
(33:42):
If it's important to you, thenit's important too. So happy
listening to the inspire yourlife podcast, and catch you soon
on the next episode.
Hello, everyone, and welcome to the
inspire your life podcast withme your host Arthi Rabikrisson.
I believe we find inspirationall around us, especially from
(00:36):
the stories that we all have inus. My aim with the inspire your
life podcast is to bring some ofthose real stories to light.
Stories of my guests thatresonate with you and me .It's
by listening to these storiesthat we can be inspired and
motivate ourselves to overcomefind a new path and rise even
(01:02):
higher than we thought possible.
Joining me on the show today isBilal Sununu. My Tasha 10 family
member based in Saudi Arabia.
Bilal is such a gentleman and adeep thinker, bream brimming
with ideas and insights. And Ireally love the way Bilal is
(01:26):
able to connect the dots, soeasily. Bilal is a business
owner and investor and a coachwho is known for his passion of
creating positive change inbusinesses and lives through the
implementation of technology. Soin case you didn't know, he's
one of the founding members ofMicrosoft's operations in Saudi
Arabia, and he was actuallyappointed the GM there in 2000.
(01:49):
And in one, and he was also partof over 100, technology project
implementation. So the expertiseand experience is deep. So this
is given Bilal a really, reallyphenomenal understanding and
interest in the corporate DNAand dynamics of how companies
actually operate. So it's nowonder then that you know, since
(02:10):
going on his own, Bilal now hasestablished multiple startups
focusing on improving verticalbusiness processes, and
basically helping organizationsimprove their businesses too.
Some were great successes, andothers were well, great learning
experiences as Bilal says. Andin addition to this, his own
(02:31):
ventures Bilal has been a partof more than 15 startups as a
coach or an advisor to thefounders in order to support
their journey. Bilal also saysthat with his diversified
experience, you know, goingthrough these several waves of
successes and extreme downtimes,that these were actually the
(02:53):
best sources of learnings andself awareness. And the school
of life, as he says, has grantedBilal a degree in resilience and
bounce back competencies. SoBilal, you know, that makes you
the perfect person to shareabout our topic today, which is
on the art of battlingdifficulties. Bilal welcome it
(03:13):
is such a pleasure to have youon the podcast today.
Bilal Sununu (03:19):
Oh, thank you, Arthi. It's really an honor to
be part of this great podcast,and I look forward to having
really fun during thisdiscussion.
Arthi Rabikrisson (03:32):
Oh, absolutely. Fun is the word.
Because we're gonna get to knowmore about you, what you've
learned and I'll obviously sharea little bit on my side, too.
But Bilal, I mean, just goingthrough a little bit of that
profile of yours. I mean,there's so much that was very
surface level, there's so muchmore depth. I'd love it. If you
could share a bit more aboutyour background with all of our
(03:54):
listeners. Tell us more aboutwho Bilal is.
Bilal Sununu (03:56):
Okay, so I come from a family. I was raised in
Jordan and the Arabian Gulf.
Okay, I learned how to programcomputers at a very early stage
of technology, which is 1982 83.
And was because of my father'sand that basically, somehow
(04:21):
influenced my decision to jointhe computer science and
computer engineering schools inone of the leading universities
here in the Middle East. Oh, byprofession, I enjoy technology,
but then technology on its ownpeople look at it as as as as
(04:41):
kind of a destination and forme, I enjoy helping them to
merge it into their businessesand use it as a tool as opposed
to being a destination and thisis becoming a passion so helping
businesses to leveragetechnologies to improve their
(05:02):
businesses is really the mixbetween both backgrounds, my
business background and mytechnology backgrounds. So to
get to break this rhythm ofdaily work, I love to go through
some, let's say refreshingmoments typically. So I love
sports. I'm not a sports fan
Arthi Rabikrisson (05:24):
What's your favorite?
Bilal Sununu (05:25):
So I run. So I participate in basic marathon I
play, I participate intriathlons, which is basically
bicycles, swimming, and runningand used to play used to be
Taekwondo team member of theUniversity team. So I enjoy also
(05:49):
the martial arts. But that'slike, these are the hobbies that
helps me to break. Now with age,okay. So I'm 54, I started to
find out that we also wasted alot of time away from the
family. So now with my kids, 25,23 and 14, my wife and I are
(06:10):
also enjoying spending qualitytime together. So now kids are
like, no more kids. So you speakto them you are friends. And
these are like some of theenjoyable time we always have.
So I love spending time with thefamily. I love breaking the work
rhythm by doing some of thestuff I like, the words I hate.
(06:36):
Okay, if someone tells me don'tworry, that uses me. And it's
like, okay, I have to worry.
Don't say don't worry, becauseDon't worry, things will not
move forward. So I dislikedthis word, I dislike that, that
the the habit of self defendingI mean, not everybody who gives
(06:59):
you a comment, or a feedback isagainst you. And you're not
obliged to even justify what youdid, just listen and say thank
you. So other than that, Imean, just having simple, simple
as they say, life, I mean,enjoying work, enjoying the
(07:22):
hobbies, enjoying your time.
Arthi Rabikrisson (07:26):
You make you really do make it sound so
simple. I mean, spending,quality time on things that
matter. And things that give youa break away from just work
because I think in the kind oflifestyle, even the post
pandemic world that we live in,not everyone has found that
balance Bilal. And it soundslike you've achieved it. And,
you know, I love the littlenuggets that you've also just
(07:48):
given us now about how we shouldactually approach feedback and
criticism. And and you know,everything doesn't necessarily,
as you said need to be defended.
It's sometimes just feedback asprovided. And a simple thank
you. And a reflection afterwardsis probably what's most useful.
And I'm wondering, you know,given our topic for today, is
that probably one of the thingsthat's really helped you in
(08:09):
terms of managing difficulties.
So I'd love it, if you couldmaybe take us back to any of
your challenges that you facedover these sort of wonderful
for you. And just to give us abit of that backstory.
Bilal Sununu (08:30):
So I mean, let me start by saying you need to
ensure that what people sees inyou is not necessarily what
happens within yourself, the wayyou typically need to think and
behave. Although this is easilysaid, that shouldn't be highly
(08:50):
emotionally influenced by theinner situation that you are
living in. You don't need to beproblem free or challenge free
for you to smile and say,Listen, I'm happy and I don't
feel I have any issues. Sobasically, I didn't get into
(09:15):
this point easily. Okay. So mybiggest challenge that I had, I
enjoyed a very, very successfulcareer. So as a person, I did
have the privilege to meet someof the key technology leaders
around the world that includedBill G, Bill Gates and others
(09:36):
from other organizations.I gotthey gave me the opportunity to
become a general manager at theage of 30, which is too young
for a person to manage entiresubsidiary, but then I did face
some difficulties when I steppedout of my corporate world, which
(09:59):
which I benefited benefited frombut it wasn't me. So I don't
like working for corporates ingeneral. It's not a bad thing.
It's just my nature. That's whatI found out. So I gave away my
job. And when I started my ownbusiness, a few things harsh,
started to show up that weretough lessons, okay, but really
(10:25):
imposed their influence on therest on even my relationship
with people. So one, some peoplereally respect your seat. So
when you are a GM of a largecompany, or large multinational
company, okay, or you have ahighly influential position, you
will see people, respecting yougiving you privilege whenever
(10:49):
you get into public meeting,calling you on the occasions and
then whenever you leave thatinfluence, you discover who
loves you, or who cares aboutyou as a person, and who
respected you as a person versuswho respected you as a position.
And that wasn't an easy thing tohandle, considering that I had
(11:14):
tons of contacts that by leavingMicrosoft kind of stopped the
typical way of dealing with me,because they were respecting my
position not respecting me as aperson. Then, of course, I mean,
I did go through multiplebusiness, let's say
(11:35):
difficulties. And financially, Igot broke. So I lost a massive
amount of money. So, so this islike the biggest difficulty
because it affected everything,everything around your entire
personal ecosystem,your firstecosystem is your community,
(11:59):
your social life, your family,your dependents, everything, so
losing a lot of money. I mean,giving away my house wasn't an
easy thing to go through. Iwouldn't say I was smiling
(12:19):
through it. But then it was avery good learning experience.
To start with, he showed me thereal wife, because she supported
me during that. It showed mereal friends who actually
supported me through that. Okay.
So you need to take some radicalmeasures that could hurt for you
(12:44):
to move forward. So I mean, forexample, animals, like snails
would give away their tail togain their lives by. Okay. So
really, as a human being, youcan't you need to take sometimes
tough decisions in order to moveforward. And I had to do that I
(13:04):
had to let go some of my assets,I had to let go some of my
properties. I mean, end of theday, you just need to move
forward. So did I have the samelevel of thinking before getting
into the difficulties? No. Okay.
(13:29):
But then, I would say Arthi,less than 10% of your contact
list that lies in your phone, orpeople that you can count on as
real friends and family
Arthi Rabikrisson (13:45):
That's really stark. And I mean, that's a
that's a reality that you'resort of suggesting you faced,
but also, potentially all of usare facing in that way. That's
exactly a bitter pill to sort ofswallow, isn't it? To think that
that's actually the case?
Bilal Sununu (14:01):
So basically, that's about the challenges we
have run through and I mean, youstructuring your thinking,
accepting self sacrifice. Okay.
I was lucky with the family andthe few percentage of people on
my contact list that I classifytoday as real good friends. Did
(14:21):
we finish all the challenges?
No, I mean, it's just thattoday, people have different
stages of their life or career,they classify things
differently. So not being ableto have a sip of coffee early
morning could be a disaster fora young person who just started
(14:45):
the her or his career. Okay, butthen it becomes less of an issue
as age and experience moveforward. I mean, so basically,
what I'm saying here is I usethis as. As a metaphor, certain
issues that I would classify asdifficulties at the start of my
(15:07):
career are not today are notclassified today as
difficulties. They're just asclassified as life goes on, or
things that you need to handletoday. So the more you handle
difficulties, the more theclassification of difficulties,
okay gets narrower, and thingswith issues I can handle or
(15:32):
accommodate gets wider. Really,you panic less, you think
better, you don't look atyourself as a victim of issues
because you widen the scope ofissues that you can handle and
narrow the scope of the ofissues that you classify as real
(15:55):
difficulties.
Arthi Rabikrisson (15:56):
Okay, great sounds, it sounds as if you're,
you're saying, you know, with,with age, almost kind of that
wisdom around what's possibleand how to achieve it.
Bilal Sununu (16:05):
But it's not only about age, it's also I mean, you
could be 30 years old, but youhave seen so many things that
experiences. So really, it'sreally the, let's say, the, it's
not about the age only becauseyou see people who are 60, and
still treat a basic issue as abig difficulty. Okay, it's
(16:28):
really about the mindset ofhandling things.
Arthi Rabikrisson (16:32):
Well, I'm glad you're touching on that.
Because as you were you andthank you, firstly, for sharing,
you know, some of those reallydeep, difficult challenges that
you experienced at that time.
And what was going through mymind was, you know, what sort of
a mindset do you need todevelop, to actually push
yourself out of that situation?
So, I mean, you deliberatelytook steps, as you said, you
(16:55):
know, to, to let go of certainthings. But that must have been
very, very hard to do. We knowwhat what sort of mindset in
that you developed enable you todo that, and to get past it and
to grow from it.
Bilal Sununu (17:09):
So art is scientifically I don't know how
to classify it. But let me tellyou one thing, the role of the
role of sub I mean, there is no,there is no person that can get
out of a difficulty without thesupport direct or indirect of
others.
(17:30):
But the first mindset you need,despite me saying that, the
first thing you need to know todo is not to expect a lot from
people. And it's even better notto expect anything from people.
Because the minute you start toexpect you will get
disappointed, right? And thenthe minute you start to expect
you will get be less active toresolve your problem because
(17:51):
you're expecting someone tosupport you.
Arthi Rabikrisson (17:54):
Okay, yeah, you're right.
Bilal Sununu (17:55):
But then once you're out of fear of your
issues, or you have I mean, Iwouldn't say you, no one will
ever be out of an issue, he willjust have a clear visibility to
what's happening and to how heor she or he would move forward.
So that clarity once it occursinto your mind, I mean, no human
(18:17):
being on Earth is issue ordifficulty free.
You start to see people whosupported you behind the scene,
okay, silently, or whoproactively presented
constructive kinds of support.
Is that pushed you forward? Yes.
But in your mindset, don'texpect it. Because the minute
(18:41):
you expect that my best friendis going to help me through
this. And he doesn't, forwhatever reason, whether he had
a valid reason or not, I will bedisappointed. And that
disappointment will affect myinner, let's say, productivity
(19:04):
or efficiency.
Arthi Rabikrisson (19:05):
Absolutely.
Absolutely. It almost might evenput you in a state of inertia in
terms of now what where do I go?
Where do I start? So that stateof inaction to get things done,
I hear you.
Bilal Sununu (19:18):
So the only thing I would say don't expect
anything from anyone, no one isgoing to scratch your back other
than your own hand and fingers.
And you know, you will see a lotof people that you never
expected them to support you.
You will just basically see someother people that you expected
them to support you as just thatany any. Anything that happens
(19:42):
to you from a supportperspective will become a
pleasant surprise that will pushyou forward and the lack of
support will never be a negativepoint that basically creates an
inner friction. That doesn'tgive you clear visibility.
Arthi Rabikrisson (19:59):
Right right and that visibility is so
important, as you're trying tosit, as you said, you know,
you're trying to figure out waysto emerge from difficulty, you
know, and potentially, as yousaid, not letting it go
completely, but at least gettingto a better step up, or a better
position than what we werepreviously. But you know, but
(20:19):
also, sometimes people findthemselves beset with one
difficulty. Another difficulty,like it almost just continues.
And I know of people who feellike, Oh, my goodness, what's
actually happened? Yeah, and,you know, when when we speak in
Hindi will say it's kharaabKismat, which I completely
understand, right? They say thebad luck, that there's so many
things happening to them oneafter the other, that they lose
(20:41):
energy, they lose focus, andthings just start to spiral
downwards. In that sort ofsituation. I mean, how would you
suggest somebody find thatenergy, whether it's from within
or external? How do they findthat energy to continue to
persevere and kind of know thatthere is light at the end of the
tunnel at the end of the day?
Bilal Sununu (21:02):
See, I mean, to me, number one, is what I told
you don't expect anything fromanyone. Yeah. And then, I mean,
life is full of surprises. Imean, what guarantees that if
someone gets into the car, Godforbid, they wouldn't get into a
pump or a car down or anaccident? Or? That's right. Just
(21:25):
that your mind. I mean, I thinkthe mind should be happy with
the fact that you're going toface a pump, and you just need
to know how to pass through it.
Of course, an element of innerfaith is important as well,
because I mean, nothing happensfor no reason. And you're not a
(21:45):
victim. I mean, whether someonebelieves in God or, or believes
in some other kind of powers, Imean, end of the day, I mean,
God is not playing against you.
I mean, it's just that this is ascenario of life, you're dealing
with that and you the quality oflife you get is in creating,
(22:11):
accommodate in accepting thefact that you need to handle
difficulties as they come out,and that you don't know what's
coming in the future. So youbetter mean, can you tell me
what your what, what would Iface end of today as a
(22:31):
difficulties? I don't know, Imean, weather today will end
with something good or bad. ButI mean, it's like, just your
mind has to be ready withwhatever is going to happen.
Enjoy that moment. And thathandle moment.
Arthi Rabikrisson (22:46):
And that's what I'm hearing. So you're
talking about that being presentin the moment. So yes, there's a
difficulty upon you, there's achallenge upon you, but I loved
the way you framed it in termsof this is just a scenario of
what's happening in a person'slife. And in fact, there could
be other things beyond it. Andjust one little action could
(23:07):
cascade into something thattakes you to someplace better,
but you know, sort of be in thatmoment and realize it is just a
moment, it will pass becausethere'll be other moments and
hopefully beautiful momentsbecause of some action. So I, I
get that. And that's resonatingwith me a lot in terms of what
you're saying. So Bilal I kindof also want to understand how
much of this was part of yourjourney in terms of overcoming
(23:28):
challenges, so the mindset, thenot expecting, or not having
expectations of others to cometo you to be surprised with
those sort of the key thingsthat helped you to eventually
emerge out of that thosedifficult circumstances that you
felt at that time? Were thereany other lessons that came out
of it for you?
Bilal Sununu (23:47):
Really, it's like, so let me tell you an advantage
I got out of it. Okay. Yeah, my,let's say, I mean, I like to
call them kids, they're not kidsof course. So, my eldest son is
25 My second daughter is 23. Andmy youngest daughter is 14. So
now, they I mean, so oneadvantage. So, just for the sake
(24:12):
of i know you asked about thelessons learned, but one
advantage and that we talk aboutthe advantage of the
disadvantages we want is that mykids developed handling
difficulties because theysuffered through this with me.
So if I again something isbasically the amount of
(24:33):
experience they got with thewith no cash with the some of
the issues I went into with,with getting out of their own
home to an apartment. All thosekinds of difficulties missing
three years of college becauseof whatever financial reasons I
had to go through, etc. I mean,they developed an excellent,
(24:59):
let's say, a resilience thathelped them up at a very early
age. So, and I and they speakabout it as one.
Arthi Rabikrisson (25:10):
Okay, so they're not hiding away from
what sort of happened. But okay,that's beautiful.
Bilal Sununu (25:16):
So lesson learned, coming back to your question is,
if you have mature children,okay, at an age where they can
relate to what you're goingthrough, one of the best areas
you would ever get in supportingyou during your tough journey is
their understanding to whatyou're going through. So
(25:36):
transparency within the familyis extremely important.
Arthi Rabikrisson (25:40):
Yeah, that ecosystem, as you mentioned, you
know, it gets it gets affected,and especially your core
ecosystem, as you said, yourwife, your kids, and to have
this as, as an outcome as aresult of that those challenges.
I mean, I think that's reallybeautiful, because I can imagine
the sort of skills and framingof their perspective of the
(26:01):
world around them that it'sactually given them, you know,
at this age now, and I'm sureyou're seeing it as well, in
terms of the decisions thatthey're making the maybe the
questions even that they'reasking, and hopefully, then it's
standing them on an even greaterfoundation towards the goals and
achieving it.
Bilal Sununu (26:18):
Yeah. So it made them more mature than their
actual age with the currentgeneration. I mean, being
coming. The the currentgeneration are coming from a
middle families like us, okay,typically are more away from
difficulties than adisadvantaged family. Right? So
(26:39):
basically, yes, I mean, fromthat angle, we were not a
disadvantaged family, I don'tlike our family that just went
in and went out. But theylearned a lot. And from an
experience perspective, they,they earned a lot.
Arthi Rabikrisson (26:58):
And I think you know, that sometimes some of
the things that we don't realizethe, the, we always talk about
unintended consequences. And wethink of it in a difficult or in
a bad way, should I say rather,but actually, this is an example
of a beautiful, unintendedconsequence, because it's had
such a dramatic positive impactto the family unit, particularly
(27:20):
your kid. And I think wesometimes forget that, that in
difficulties, the sort of thingsdo emerge as well. And it and it
pushes other members in thefamily forward. So I think
that's a beautiful reminder forus to actually keep an eye out
for that too
Bilal Sununu (27:34):
keep crying about, You cannot keep crying about
negative consequences all thetime, you just need to forget
Arthi Rabikrisson (27:41):
Okay, so below what are you currently
working on them for for thisyear, for the rest of the year?
And I know, you know, as youwere saying, difficulties come
and go their waves, theirscenarios, let's call it that,
because I love the way you framethat. Are you in any situation
at the moment? Or is it all kindof looking pretty good? And what
(28:01):
are you looking forward to for2023? What are you hoping for by
the end of the year, let's say?
Bilal Sununu (28:06):
So basically, um, I basically it's like recovery
mode. So they I have a couple ofbusinesses that, of course, I
don't turn both of mybusinesses. So there is a team
who's running their businesses.
So what I love eventsmanagement, we have been in
events management for 20 years,it started as it was never
(28:28):
intended to be a business. Andwe we do a lot of team building
special conferences, etc. Sothat's the thing that we we
would we we are working to makeit a breakthrough year for us.
2023. Okay. So and then my coreis technology, we focus on
(28:50):
family businesses, to help themalign their business needs with
technology investments. I don'tlike to call it we help them to
digitally transform because thisis too strong. I mean, that's
easy. We said it's extremelytough. So here we're talking
more about. We're talking aboutdigitisation and the adoption of
(29:14):
automation that so that'ssomething we like, but then we
decided to go into one singlesector, which is schools. We are
now building a school managementsystem, a cloud based school
management system that willenable schools manage their
admin, staff, student affairsand teacher affairs. We found a
(29:42):
good job on that. Okay. We'rehoping to launch this cloud
service within the coming threemonths. So that's keeping us
busy.
Arthi Rabikrisson (29:55):
Beautiful, beautiful initiatives in the
different spaces that you'reinvolved in excellentto here
Bilal and wishing you absolutethe best in terms of attaining
those breakthroughs andimmersing into the school sort
of system with this, I'm sureit's going to be highly, highly
useful to all of them.
Bilal I want to check in withyou again? I mean, because there
was such beautiful nuggets ofwisdom that I think you've
(30:17):
imparted as part of ourconversation today. And I want
to maybe in one final piece,sort of what would be the key
advice that you would want toeither share or extend out with
our listeners today about, youknow, if, if they're still in
that evolving, findingthemselves, in a difficult
situation, trying to pickthemselves up? What would you
(30:39):
offer to them as that key keyadvice?
Bilal Sununu (30:41):
Don't expect a lot from people, no one is going to
get you out of your ditch exceptyourself. But then loyal people
will follow once you start totake actions.
Arthi Rabikrisson (30:52):
Yeah, I mean, you've reiterated this a few
times. So I was sort of thinkingthat that is probably one of the
key things, I'm definitelytaking away from that. And it's
very candid, you know, because alot of the time we do have that
expectation that you know,somebody is going to be there to
help me. And sometimes we feelit's somebody who's close in our
ecosystem. But as you said, forwhatever reason, they've got
(31:15):
other priorities, they've gotother things going on. And at
the time that you need them,they're not there, they're not
able to be there, but somebodywho you hadn't thought of
surprises you and is able tocome in and adjust and assist.
So I think it's also I guess,what you're saying is be open to
creating the action for yourselfand open to opportunities to see
where people may surprise you interms of how they can assist and
(31:37):
I like that I really really likethat as we're coming to the end
of our conversation today Bilal.
I'd love it if you could sharesomething that really really
inspires you to keep movingforward keeps you ignited keeps
you doing all these wonderfulthings that you do it could be a
poem, something spiritual, aquote, just something that you
love that you know is your pickme up. What would you share with
(32:00):
us?
Bilal Sununu (32:01):
Never complain about a wound that exists in
your body.
Arthi Rabikrisson (32:06):
Like that?
What does it mean for you
Bilal Sununu (32:09):
Look at the mirror and handle it. Handle your your
own issues and just don'tvictimize your mind. Don't
don't operate under a victimmind. I mean, you have a wand.
Don't complain about it.
Arthi Rabikrisson (32:26):
Right. Okay, powerful.
Bilal Sununu (32:28):
We That is part of a Arabic famous
poem.
Arthi Rabikrisson (32:31):
Okay.
Beautiful, beautiful Bilal. It'sbeen such a pleasure chatting
with you today. Thank you somuch for sharing with all of us,
and wishing you success in yourjourney.
Bilal Sununu (32:44):
Thank you, Arthi.
Thank you for giving me thisopportunity to share things. I
really enjoyed the discussionand it was an honor to be part
of your podcast.
Arthi Rabikrisson (32:53):
It's my absolute pleasure, you take it
below.
Bilal Sununu (32:56):
Thank you.
Arthi Rabikrisson (32:57):
Thank you.
Bye.
Thank you so much for joining meon this episode today. If you
like what you heard, rate, theepisode and podcast. And feel
free to write a review. Plus, ofcourse, share with others too.
(33:21):
I love talking around topicslike these. So if you live my
perspective or insight in asubject close to your heart, or
something that you're grapplingwith, reach out to me in your
comments or send me an email viamy website, or connected me via
LinkedIn, Instagram or Facebook,or my social media on the
podcast information.
(33:42):
If it's important to you, thenit's important too. So happy
listening to the inspire yourlife podcast, and catch you soon
on the next episode.
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