Follow Up To The Physics of Flight: Q&A with Brandon & Jenni

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Can gyroscopic forces and aerodynamics truly transform your disc golf game? Join us as we navigate the world of disc flight physics, sharing the secrets we’ve unearthed about why your favorite disc might not be behaving the way you expect. From our rollercoaster experience at SeaTac to our spirited studio antics, this episode promises a blend of laughter and learning as we dive into the science of disc selection and performance.

As we dissect the mechanics of disc flight, you'll discover why refining your technique can often be more beneficial than upgrading your gear. We tackle common misconceptions, like the knee-jerk reaction to choose heavier discs, and instead highlight the benefits of starting with lightweight, understable options. With personal stories and various tournament tales, we aim to equip you with a deeper understanding of how factors like spin and momentum can dramatically alter your game.

Our discussions are peppered with humor and candid insights, offering practical advice for achieving consistency in disc flight. Whether you're a seasoned pro or a newcomer to disc golf, we invite you to explore the intriguing dynamics of disc behavior with us. And while we unravel these concepts, we also remind you to enjoy the chaos of learning something new. Let's embrace the journey and share a few laughs along the way, as we continue to build our vibrant disc golf community.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 2 (00:17):
Welcome to the Intentional Disc Golfer Podcast,
the show dedicated to helpingyou elevate your disc golf game
with purpose and strategy.
Whether you're stepping up tothe tee for the first time or
you're a seasoned pro chasingthat perfect round, this podcast
is your guide to playingsmarter, training better and
building confidence on thecourse.

(00:38):
We are, brandon and JennySaprinsky, passionate disc
golfers, here to exploreeverything from technique,
course management, mental focusand gear selection.
Grab your favorite disc, settlein and let's take your game to

(00:59):
the next level.
Intentionally.

Speaker 3 (01:05):
Thank you for tuning in to the Intentional Disc
Golfer Podcast.
I am one of your hosts.
My name is Brandon.

Speaker 1 (01:15):
And I'm Jenny and I'm really confused because I have
never heard disc golf chainssound that chintzy before,
unless it's like the Costco onethat that we have outside we're
bringing the cheese did you justdrop a bunch of change into a
metal, tin can or something?
Oh my god, we have soundeffects oh yeah, go away.

Speaker 3 (01:38):
Well, first of all, in this episode, we'd like to
thank our fans for supporting usthroughout the years.
We are definitely back.
This is our second episode ofseason 2.1.
I jokingly call it the reboot.

Speaker 1 (01:52):
I thought this was our third.

Speaker 3 (01:55):
Well, it would be our third.
Technically, I'm jokingly callit 2.1.
But thank you to the fans andall of the supporters that have
stuck with us throughout theyears.
We really really do appreciateit and we'd definitely like to
have more fans and supporters.
So if you love us, appreciateus, can't live without us, can't
stop listening to this finebroadcast, please follow us on

(02:19):
our social media media.
It is uh on facebook andinstagram uh, Czuprynski disc
golf, c z u p r y n s k I discgolf, all one word.
And on x and youtube@TheIDGPodcast are at that is,
at the letters I, d or the idgpodcast.

(02:42):
You can also reach out to usvia email at the the
intentionaldiscgolfer@gmail.
com.
And if you would like tocontribute, support the show a
little bit.
We also have a patreon, sopatreon.
com/theintentionaldiscgolfer.

(03:04):
And please stay tuned.
After the episode we got a newlittle segment where we take our
bloopers and some of ourouttakes and we attach them to
the end of the episode.
Uh, after the outro music.
So do stay tuned for that.
And, jenny, you got any uhshout outs or anything you want
to.

Speaker 2 (03:23):
What is our Patreon?

Speaker 3 (03:26):
Our Patreon is patreon.
com/ the intentional disc golfer.

Speaker 1 (03:32):
Okay.

Speaker 3 (03:33):
Yes.
So I would like to make a quickshout out, if I may.
I want to shout out to gritcity bringing home another W
this weekend.
Washington team golf that was alot of fun.
Big shout out to Chuck Mintzrunning the SeaTac tree smack.
That was a lot of fun.

Speaker 1 (03:52):
Number eight.

Speaker 3 (03:53):
Number eight.
Yeah, he runs a heck of atournament and the hoodies are a
thing like the tree smack.
Hoodies are wonderful andthat's the only reason I go.

Speaker 1 (04:05):
I'm not as happy about it this year, but only
because I'm going to love it inthe summer because it's
lightweight.
It's just not heavyweight forwinter.
Yeah, but that's okay.

Speaker 3 (04:17):
Last year's was Change of pace is kind of nice
sometimes, you know.

Speaker 1 (04:21):
I know it's going to be really good for the summer.

Speaker 3 (04:23):
Chuck always runs a really smooth tournament and uh
it was fun to play, even thoughI was uh struggling big time out
there today or not today, butyeah, saturday saturday I was
struggling big time.
Just nothing was working.
It was one of those days.
How'd you do?
All right yeah, you did allright.

Speaker 1 (04:46):
Yeah, yeah, didn't you win yeah, not really I won,
but it doesn't feel like it oh,it's one of those yeah, it's
like you win, but you didn't winlike in your soul well, I did
good the first round and I waspretty happy about it, and then
all of a sudden my discs starteddoing the things that I don't
understand, and so I think thatkind of led to this, unless you

(05:12):
actually have an outline.
I don't actually have an outline, good, so hey, I was up this
morning trying to figure outwhat's wrong with my discs and
my throw and really trying tounderstand.
So what are the physics of discgolf?
What do I actually need to know?
Because, unlike you listenersout there, I haven't actually

(05:37):
gotten to listen to the episodeand when we were recording it at
10 o'clock at night I didn'tunderstand it.
It I still don't understand it.
I spent most of my drive towork my hour drive to work with
a headache trying to figure itout well, at least we know what
keeps you up at night now push abutton.
Which one are you gonna push?
That sounds horrible that'schains here no, that's not

(06:01):
chains I know.

Speaker 3 (06:05):
So anyway, this episode is kind of a follow-up
episode to our physics of flightepisode.

Speaker 2 (06:11):
I want a board.

Speaker 3 (06:13):
What the soundboard I want?
My own, all right, well, we'llhook you up we'll hook you up
someday.
I want to push buttons once you, once you can be responsible
with it.
You covered the buttons.

Speaker 1 (06:25):
I want to push buttons Once you can be
responsible with it.
You covered the buttons.

Speaker 3 (06:30):
I know Covering the buttons.
So anyway, this episode wasJenny's idea and it's kind of a
follow-up Q&A conversation tothe flight numbers episode,
where we got really heavy intothe science and the physics of
the flight patterns of the discand why they behave the way they

(06:51):
do and how the flight numbersreflect that.

Speaker 1 (07:00):
So this is jenny's episode and where we started was
.
So, if you've played c-tech, Istarted on hole 27 and it's not
in the the hill position, soit's in the b position, I
believe.
And, uh, and warming up, Ithrew my new mana, my mantra and

(07:29):
my diamond to see which wouldbe a better throw, and they all
went, beautifully landed withinthe circle of the basket, excuse
me and the mana was the best.
So I'm I'm like, okay, I'mgoing to do that.
10-15 minutes later, tournamentactually starts.

(07:54):
I'm the swamp, which I didn'teven know.
That was like a thing, likeclearly a lot of people have

(08:15):
been there, but down the hill,in the swamp and where I'm
standing, cause I'm short, Ican't even see the basket cause
it's on the other side of thehill.
So how come my disc was finewarming up?
Why did it do that?
Like that's, that's so.
That's more in depth of thequestion I asked you this

(08:37):
morning of why did it?
Why did it go in the swamp?

Speaker 3 (08:41):
Well, I mean part of the answer is is you know you
hear the two-minute warning?
Oh no, don't give me that.

Speaker 1 (08:48):
I'm not talking about any of the tournament stuff.
I'm asking about the physics ofthe disc I'm getting there.
This is not the mental thingabout the no, I'm getting there,
I'm getting there.

Speaker 3 (08:56):
That's a whole other episode.
I'm getting there.
Okay.
You hear the two-minute warning.
You get the surge of adrenalineand all of a sudden you're
throwing what feels like whatyou did, but there's way more
power and without as much effort.
So the disc is flying fasterthan your previous throw when

(09:17):
you're warming up, because whenyou're warming up you're just
relaxed, you're kind of doingyour thing and then, all of a
sudden, unleash, unleash the youare going to a completely
separate place that I don't evenwant to go to like that needs
to be cut out can you frame itdifferently?

Speaker 1 (09:32):
no, what I'm saying is I'm it's the same question I
asked you this morning.
I'm just giving a littlebackstory for the sake of the
podcast.
So why did my mana that I canmake go land in front of that
basket, so that Heiser line?
Why did it flip up, go rightand land in the swamp?

(09:52):
It has nothing to do about thefact that it was the first throw
, anything like that.
What I'm saying is I just threwit and it was fine.

Speaker 3 (10:00):
Yep.

Speaker 1 (10:02):
Because that's not the first time it did that.
That's the second time it'sdone that there was at the um uh
gaffneys on, so you know theone where there's all the um
debris, for lack of better termsall the cement blocks.
God, that one.

(10:23):
So the one before that, becauseyou saw my disc where I'm
trying to get into that Mandothat really small short one.

Speaker 3 (10:31):
It's like 150 foot double Mando and it's tiny.

Speaker 1 (10:36):
Yeah, it flipped up and did that too, and landed way
in the swamp over there.

Speaker 3 (10:41):
I did see that.

Speaker 1 (10:42):
Maybe this is my swamp disc.

Speaker 3 (10:43):
Your swamp disc.

Speaker 1 (10:44):
It's just got the the attraction good when it's like
I don't.
It's.
It's such a good disc for me.
Why is it doing that?

Speaker 3 (10:55):
so the reason a disc flips over is because it is
moving faster, so forwardvelocity.
It is moving faster than it hasenough spin to be able to
stabilize the disc okay and Ithink that's what finally made

(11:18):
sense to me this morning.

Speaker 1 (11:21):
But it's so faster because I threw.
You said not to throwing harder, but throwing I don't know.

Speaker 3 (11:38):
Well, I think we got to get away from the term of
throwing harder and switch thatmindset over to throwing faster,
because throwing harder is kindof the objective feeling of
work that you're putting intothe shot and doesn't necessarily

(12:00):
reflect your arm speed.
So we need to think in terms ofspeed and velocity and not as a
subjective term.
As you know, I'm putting a lotof work into the shot.

Speaker 1 (12:13):
Well, and it's also.
It's actually not arm speed,even though that's what
ultimately throws the disc.
It's, isn't it like your walkup the hips, the legs and all
that other stuff.
So it's not even arm speed.

Speaker 3 (12:32):
It's.
It's more so when you'retalking about form.
The way I understand it is atwofold Um.
First it is the torque that'sgenerated through your hips on
up through your core,transferred into your lever arm,
and then cracking the whip, uh,in order to release the disc,

(12:54):
and on a straight line.

Speaker 1 (12:56):
Yeah, cause that's one of the things.
So I played with Kira on mycard, um, and I was telling her
that what I learned and I talkedabout in like many episodes,
when I saw ella and holland andthey're like, reach back 45
degree angle to create all thatmore space for you to whip and

(13:17):
that made a huge difference inher game between round one and
round two, because she wasmentioning that at the end of
round one she's like my armshurting because she was throwing
it wrong.
She was just trying to hulk outwith her trying to muscle it.

Speaker 3 (13:32):
yeah well, she's trying to throw with her
shoulders instead of throwingwith her lower body yeah,
probably, yeah, yeah yeah, so ifthings hurt on your body and
when you're done, it's probablybecause of poor technique or age
.
Well, age is a.
Age can be a thing.

Speaker 1 (13:52):
Yeah, um, so that disc ended up cause I threw it
later and it was just fine whenI threw it the first time and it
well, I don't even know if itdid its flight pattern, but it

(14:13):
uh had a more favorable landingthe first time the first time
and the second time I threw ittoo fast with not enough spin.

Speaker 3 (14:29):
Yes, yes and spin comes from so spin comes from a
lot of different places.
It comes from your gripstrength and it comes from being
able to stop that lever arm andcrack the whip at the end of

(14:50):
your throw.
So it's like snapping a towelor snapping a bullwhip.
And that's when you hear thepros and they get that pop on
the end of their throw.
That's what that is.

Speaker 1 (15:02):
Earlier, you said it had to do with hand strength.

Speaker 3 (15:06):
Yeah, grip strength.
It has to do with grip strengthand it also has to do with the
technique of being able to crackthe whip.
The better you can do those twothings, the stronger your hands
, and the more you can crack thewhip, the more spin your disc
is going to generate.

Speaker 1 (15:24):
Because with drivers, actually any disc as long as
you're not doing a touch shot,you're supposed to hold the disc
and not let go, and that's whatcauses the pop when it rips out
of your hand.

Speaker 3 (15:41):
Well, and I'm not even so sure that it's uh, it's
not true for a touch shot,because a touch shot isn't
necessarily letting go of thedisc.
The touch shot is looseningyour grip to a point where it'll
release.
It'll still pop out of yourhand, but it'll release with not

(16:02):
as much power.

Speaker 1 (16:03):
Okay, Let me.
Let me rephrase it yeah.
So I'm thinking of my throw,versus the times where I'm very
aware that I go like this andcompletely open my hand when I
do a touch shot, like myapproaches with my putters and
I'm trying not to Hulk out LikeI open my hands.

Speaker 3 (16:24):
Well, I I'm very aware that I just open my hand
because it usually ends up likethis, like yeah, and, and
normally whenever I do that um,it does it kind of naturally
because I'm using a fan grip, um, so I'm using basically my
putting grip to be able to youknow that's a good point.

Speaker 1 (16:46):
I'm not sure I'm going to have to look at that
what grip I use when I do that.

Speaker 3 (16:52):
Yeah, so for me, anything within 150 feet, I'm
using a fan grip and I'm justtossing it.
Most of the time I'm jumpputting at 100, 150 feet that's
great well, what I'm trying toemphasize here is that I'm not

(17:14):
using the full power grip itwould be funny to see you do
that from 150 feet a full yeah.

Speaker 1 (17:23):
I don't know what you'd have to throw a mini.

Speaker 3 (17:26):
A mini.

Speaker 1 (17:27):
Yeah, like the halfway minis, the oversized
minis, like the one we got fromTree Smack.

Speaker 3 (17:31):
No, no, I'm not going to throw them, no.
If you were to use a full power, throw at 150 feet you would
have to, then you know that's agood point, because then we talk
about momentum and velocity andmass.

Speaker 1 (17:46):
Yeah, so I was going to then also say so.
I had my F9 and it was it wasFor our listeners out there.

Speaker 3 (17:56):
what are the numbers on?

Speaker 1 (17:57):
that Amazing Eight.
I think it's 8.6 negative 4.5,or maybe it's some of them, I
think say negative 3.5 half.
So I think it depends on theplastic too, but anyway.
So I threw my red one atGaffney's and I didn't like the

(18:23):
way it was throwing.
I'd been doing better with theblue one.
How was it throwing atGaffney's and I didn't like the
way it was throwing.
I'd been doing better with theblue one.
How was it throwing atGaffney's?
It was not going the way Iwanted it to go.

Speaker 3 (18:31):
What does that mean?

Speaker 1 (18:32):
I don't remember.

Speaker 3 (18:33):
Paint a picture for us.
Was it going right, was itgoing left?
Was it flipping?

Speaker 1 (18:37):
out.
The picture is.
It was days ago, I don'tremember, okay, okay, but at
Tree Smack.
Remember, okay, okay, but attree smack.
So I switched to the blue one,I think.
So the first, first warm-upshot I did was between the two,
and I think the red one wentmore left and the blue one
stayed more right.

Speaker 3 (19:00):
That was the difference which one was closer
to center line, because that'sall that matters is what's
closer to center line, except Iwas trying to do a slight
turnover and trying to get it togo right.

Speaker 1 (19:19):
A flex shot.
No, no, not a flex shot.

Speaker 3 (19:21):
Oh, you were trying to do a turnover, turnover yeah.

Speaker 1 (19:23):
Gotcha, that's what I said A turnover Turnover, not
an flex shot.
Oh, you were trying to do aturnover turnover.
Yeah, gotcha.

Speaker 3 (19:27):
That's what I said A turnover Turnover, not an apple
turnover, that would be amazing.

Speaker 1 (19:30):
Oh my God, quit with the sounds.
I'm going to throw the squirrelat you.

Speaker 3 (19:36):
That's what we need.
I need a squirrel sound effect.

Speaker 1 (19:39):
You do.

Speaker 3 (19:40):
That's a good one.

Speaker 1 (19:40):
You need lots of little squirrel sound effects,
but I get to use them.

Speaker 3 (19:43):
Okay, you're going to have the squirrel board.

Speaker 1 (19:45):
Yes, all right.
So the F9 went.
When I was throwing on 11 thefirst round, I had a great shot.
It was relatively straight.
And then the second shot Ithrew approach was completely

(20:08):
straight with the f9 same disc,okay, okay.
So one right after the other.
The next round it went liketrue to what it's supposed to do
.
It didn't go straight, but itwent really far to the right and
ended on eighth fairway so whenit was in the air, what did it

(20:28):
look like?

Speaker 3 (20:29):
was it tipped on an annie or like turning all the
way over and and ditching outlike what was?
What did it look like in theair?
I think it was flat it flat,but it was tailing right.

Speaker 1 (20:44):
Yeah, it just like took off and went right.

Speaker 3 (20:47):
Okay.
So what that is is too muchvelocity and not enough spin.
So for the sake of conversation, we need to forget about the
flight numbers on the disc andturn and fade and glide and all
that.
Forget about all that and let'sjust talk about aerodynamic

(21:14):
physics, let's just talk aboutbehavior, from just a pure
standpoint.
So delete all the stuff thatyou think you know about flight
numbers.
We're just talking aboutphysics.
So when we talk about agyroscope, it's like a think of

(21:35):
the disc, not as like agyroscope, like a bicycle tire
around an axle.
Think of it as more so like atop.
In order for a top to stayupright, it has to be spinning
really, really fast, and as itslows down it starts to wobble
and eventually tips over.
So the wobbling of the top isgyroscopic procession is the

(21:59):
wobble, okay.
And so the faster the top isspinning, the more straight up
and down it'll be.
Now transfer that over to adisc.
The disc is going to spinaround its center, its center of
gravity, which is in the centerof the disc, hopefully, and the
faster it spins, the morestable as far as resistance to

(22:25):
moving around, tipping over andwhatnot.
The faster it spins, the morestable it will be.

Speaker 1 (22:33):
And you clarified with me earlier, that's not the
stability of the disc, it justmeans stable.

Speaker 3 (22:42):
It just means stable, as in not moving, as its
ability to hold its angle.

Speaker 1 (22:55):
So because, like on a gyroscope, can it be stay at,
uh uh, either anhy or Heiserangle, and it's stable.

Speaker 3 (23:07):
You can be stable at different angles.
So think of a gyroscope thegyroscope that we have in a
massive angle.
Yeah, so think about, thinkabout a gyroscope, so think of
it as a gyroscope.
That one of those toys you hadwhen you're a kid.
So you, I never had one, joel.
Okay, well, you've seen it inaction.

Speaker 1 (23:29):
Yeah.
I may have stolen it a coupletimes.

Speaker 3 (23:31):
Okay, so you pull the string, the inside of it spins
around real fast and you can setit down on its little stand and
it'll stand straight up, or youcan tip it over and it'll stay
one direction.
Really, yeah, you can tip it atan angle and it'll stay on that
angle, or we need to get agyroscope spinning around yeah

(23:52):
you know, a gyroscope might notbe a bad thing for you to see as
a visual aid, or just we couldlook it up on youtube or
something nah, I want my ownokay, but anyway so it'll.
It'll stay at that angle untilthe little spinny do in the
inside starts to slow down andthen it'll start to actually

(24:12):
wobble a little bit in acircular motion from the center
of the, where it's touching thelittle stand, to the outside.
It'll create like if you wereto draw a line.
It would create like a kind ofa cone shape.

Speaker 1 (24:25):
Okay, so this might be weird.
So the way that the disc isformed and it's got like that
lip in the space under it, doesthe amount of air under it like
play into this?

Speaker 3 (24:44):
The amount of air under it has more so to do with
the lift and center of lift, andI'm glad that you asked,
because that's what causes thedisc to move as far as flipping
up or flipping over or even, uh,fading out and coming back to
the ground.

Speaker 1 (25:04):
So it's like last year when I walked into Mr
Hank's class and they were allmaking paper airplanes and some
of them decided they wanted totry and make paper disks and
none of them would fly.
And I talked to one of the kids, Shawnee, and I was like, well,
what are you missing?
And we talked about she wasmissing the rim.

(25:26):
Once she put a rim on it itflew the paper disc part of it.

Speaker 3 (25:33):
Part of it is the gyroscopic force being able to
stabilize the disc in flight,and the other part is is the
airfoil of the aerodynamic shapeof the disc.
So and that's what a hyzer flipis is when the center of lift

(25:55):
well, let's talk a little bitmore about center of lift.
So lift, like an airplane wing,is generated all over the
surface of the disc, all overthe entire surface.
Okay, so and lift, it's kind ofreverse named because lift is
not actually like pulling on astring and pulling it upwards.

(26:17):
Lift is actually like havingyour hand underneath it and
pushing it upwards like a, likea jack or well isn't lift the
force of the air both over andunder the objects.
Well so, ultimately, lift ismostly about pressure, right,
and so there's a low pressurezone above the disc, on the top

(26:38):
of the disc, and there's a highpressure zone on the bottom of
the disc, so the you can talkabout it.
You can either look at it ofthe disc, so the you can talk
about it.
You can either look at it asthe disc is pushing off of the
earth underneath it or of theair underneath it and that's
what's causing it to go up, oryou can say that the air is
lifting it up from underneathpeople.

(27:00):
People think of lift assomebody, you know somebody
pulling it from the top side up,but it's actually pushing
against the air underneath itand causing it to rise.

Speaker 1 (27:13):
Okay, well, back to my questions.
Yes, so I'm still not 100%understanding this whole physics
of the disc thing, this wholephysics of the disc thing.
What do I really need to know,like baby steps, to start, like,

(27:35):
next time we go play?
What do I need to know toreally make a good disc
selection, just in case I getthe right speed and spin and all
that jazz?
Because, like, I thought I wasthrowing my disc really well and
then all of a sudden it doessomething different and it's

(27:56):
like well, I guess that's whatyou're doing today.
It like makes up its own mindyes and no.

Speaker 3 (28:04):
I mean selecting the appropriate disc is just a
matter of experimentation, andwhen you're in this phase of
changing your game rapid growthand developing your technique,
the rate at which you're goingto blow through discs is very

(28:29):
fast.

Speaker 1 (28:30):
What do you mean by blow through discs?

Speaker 3 (28:33):
What I mean is like you might throw one disc for a
week or two and then you changesomething in your form or learn
something new or dial somerelease angle in, and all of a
sudden that disc doesn't workfor you anymore but I thought a
two mile an hour shift in armspeed will completely change

(28:57):
your game so I thought yesterdaywhen we talked about this like
I'm still trying to understandthis from when we recorded the
show two weeks ago.
That was like a week ago.

Speaker 1 (29:10):
We just posted it.
Yes, posted it today.

Speaker 3 (29:11):
That was like a week ago.

Speaker 1 (29:13):
It was like before New Year's, wasn't it?

Speaker 3 (29:15):
No.

Speaker 1 (29:18):
Okay, anyways, anyways.
So I thought you said that, uh,coming up with a mechanical
solution to a physical problemor a form problem wasn't the

(29:38):
solution.

Speaker 3 (29:40):
So okay, so okay.
So what I said was you'recoming up with an equipment
solution to a technique problemwhen what you should be doing is
correcting your technique andthen getting the right equipment

(30:00):
that will allow you to performthe way you want to perform.

Speaker 1 (30:06):
Well, and then you said that our premise of oh, I'm
turning that over, I need toget a higher speed or a heavier
disc, that that's a temporarysolution and not really the
solution that we're looking for.

Speaker 3 (30:21):
Yeah.
So in researching and recordingthis episode and then and also
going through it and listeningto it again, uh, one thing that
I realized is that our as discgolfers and kind of the way
we're taught is completelybackwards.
So the way we're taught as discgolfers, from beginner to

(30:42):
advanced and maybe hopefully oneday professional, is you start
off with a lightweight disc,possibly understable, because a
natural hyzer release is themost common release due to
sloppy form, poor musculature inmost people.
A lot of people pick this up asa hobby and don't realize quite

(31:03):
yet what an obsession itbecomes.
But you start off with alightweight disc, maybe
something in the 140, 150 rangeif you're super lightweight and
you go for something understable.
So the idea is that you canhave enough arm speed to get
that disc to flip up on anatural high as a release, come

(31:25):
to plane and fly straight and godown the fairway, which is all
well and good, and there's a lotof people out there that have
mastered this technique and goodfor them.
And then what we're taught is,as your arm speed increases, you
increase the weight or the massof the disc.
So go up to like 160 grams, 170grams, all the way up to.

(31:50):
I believe it maxes out at 185for certain types.
I'm not sure I'd have to checkthe PDGA rulings on that, but I
believe it's 185.
Ga rulings on that, but Ibelieve it's 185.
And then, once you max out yourweight, you start to go down in

(32:10):
stability and try to find thisbalance.
You start to work fromunderstable to possibly going
into overstable and then you getto like the tour professionals
where they're throwing like a,you know like.
I saw Simon Lizotte throwing a14.504 the other day and the
thing was flipping up to flapeven Anheuser because he was
throwing it so fast and it wasjust going forever.

Speaker 1 (32:34):
So I just looked up.
The maximum weight allowed fordisc golf discs is 175 grams and
200 grams for super class discs, for super class discs.
Okay, so the absolute maximumis like 200 grams yes, and
there's no official minimum okay, so there's no official minimum

(32:58):
but they're typically beginnersand intermediates is 150 to 169
.
And then experience is between165 and 175.

Speaker 3 (33:09):
Okay, and then once you pass the weight class and
your disc starts flipping over.
So once you get into, like say,the Roadrunners and the
Sidewinders and the f9s andthings up in the 170s, close to
180, and those start flippingover on you because you're
throwing them fast enough tomake that happen.

(33:30):
The idea is that you'resupposed to be working away from
understable to overstable.
Like I said, simon lazat wasthrowing a 14504 the other day
and getting it to flip up theflat on a hyzer flip and I'm
sitting there just scratching myhead like that's unreal and
that was a recording from, Ithink, much earlier in the year.

(33:51):
Yeah, last year we're watchingreruns because it's the off
season, getting excited for the,the new tour season coming up,
so so, um, but that that's,that's a mechanical or that's an
equipment solution for amechanical problem, and it's not
correct way of thinking.

(34:13):
I don't believe what we shouldbe doing is learning the physics
of the flight, and that's whatthe episode was all about is
knowing that how forwardvelocity versus spin affects the

(34:33):
disc and the flight pattern,and understanding how to get the
most out of each stability ofdisc.
Uh, how to get the most out ofeach stability of disc rather
than trying to compensate for itwith equipment.
And so the thought that came tomy mind earlier today was
imagine a scale, one of thosebalance scales, where you have

(34:56):
the, the two trays on each side,and you try to get it to
balance out a banker's scalelike a banker's scale, yeah, and
on one side you have forwardmomentum and velocity, on the
other side you have spin andyou're trying to find that happy
balance between the spin andthe forward velocity.
And once you can get that scaleto balance, your disc is going

(35:19):
to be nice and stable and flythe way it's supposed to.
So what we need to do as discgolfers really is to improve our
technique to a point wherewe're maxing out the aspects of
those discs and then we can makeother considerations.
But we need to take care of itwith form and technique, not

(35:42):
with playing with weights andstabilities and stuff like that.
Because you can, you know how,how come a pro can throw a
roadrunner and get it to flip upflat and get it to go forever
and do what it's supposed to do,but then when I throw it it
flips all the way over and turnsinto a roller disc, whether I
want to what I wanted to or not.
How, why is that?

Speaker 1 (36:05):
so why does it flip over and turn into a roller disc
?
Because it has too much forwardmomentum and not enough spin
that is correct is that how youintentionally do a roller too?

Speaker 3 (36:18):
no, doing intentionally doing a roller.
You've.
You turn the thing over so thatit's you put it on a very
severe anhyzer angle and youintentionally kind of drill it
into the ground so that you hitan edge and roll it.
It's think of a like rolling a,rolling a coin yeah, not

(36:39):
helping.

Speaker 1 (36:40):
Um.
So, speaking of weird shots,how do the physics of this come
into play?
For, like the guy you playedwith, who only does like
thumbers and tomahawks, it'sweird never mind, I didn't ask,
I don't want to know.
I still am not grasping.

Speaker 3 (37:00):
I would, I would have to really take some time to
wrap my head around, likethumbers and tomahawks, but I do
know that the disc is going toon a thumber, tomahawk.
Um, so a thumber is where theflight pan is facing away from
you.
Uh, if you were to hold it upby your ear for an overhand
throw, the flight pan is facingaway from you and a tomahawk is

(37:23):
where the flight pan is facingtowards you, and by flight pan I
mean the top of the disc wherethe stamp is.
And I do know that when youthrow it, the first thing the
disc is going to do is it'sgoing to drop to the side that
the flight pan is on.
So if you're holding it in thethumber position, it's going to

(37:46):
swerve to the left and flyupside down like that.
Now don't ask me how that reallystays in the air.
I'd have to wrap my head aroundit, but it has to be with
forward velocity because it'sthe.
The center of lift would be onthe bottom of the disc, so I'm

(38:08):
not really sure.
I haven't really looked intothat because that's not a very
common way of playing I thinkit's becoming more and more
common, though, so I'm still.

Speaker 1 (38:25):
people are going to think I'm really dumb.

Speaker 3 (38:27):
No no.

Speaker 1 (38:28):
I still I'm still not grasping this whole concept, so
at least not in any way that'sconnecting to something that I
can like go out and use tomorrow, because it's still, because I
know that I still need tounderstand that.

Speaker 3 (38:49):
and then there's the whole speedometer part of it,
too, where it stays in the airfor whatever x amount of time,
yeah so that's why we're doingthis episode is just exactly for
people like you, becausethere's probably a lot of you
out there that are having a hardtime wrapping your head around

(39:10):
these concepts.
Um, and, like I said, we needto stop thinking about the
flight numbers, uh, and justblank that out for a minute and
just think of pure physics.
I am regardless of it, it's adisc or an airplane wing or a
helicopter rotor.
Uh, and just think of it likethat.

Speaker 1 (39:32):
Even if we went down to like wooden blocks and
kindergarten like I, I'm notgetting this.
Not in any way that I can use.
So I guess the next questionwould be how do I work Like?

(39:53):
What can I work on to make mythrows more consistent?
Does it change?
It does change depending on thedisc, doesn't it?

Speaker 3 (40:09):
As far as.

Speaker 1 (40:10):
Like the.
How do I even say this.
So throwing my F9 is not thesame as throwing my mana.
Mantra no, I'm talking my mana,oh, your mana, okay, I'm, I'm
being I'm being very aware thatI'm saying this is a driver

(40:32):
that's eight speed, that's moreunderstable, and this is my new
mid-range.
That's more overstable, like,those are the two discs that
really stood out because I wastrying to so prefacing a future
episode.
I was really trying toblueprint what was going on in

(40:55):
my game, the second round, sothat I could focus on more of
the mental aspect of the game.
But I came across these thingsthat just really stood out and
it's that these discs that theF9 I've been throwing for a year

(41:16):
Not that disc specifically, butthat Mold Mold for a year and
I've done really well with it.
And then I went through a phasewhere I couldn't throw it,
probably because I was havingtoo much forward momentum and
not enough spin.
And then that's when I took itout and then I put it back in

(41:43):
because my forward momentum wasprobably matching the spin, or
at least it was working betterthan Anyways.
But the I know I'mparticipating, I'm a hand talker
Like get me some foam gloves,put socks on your hands, it's

(42:06):
not going to help.
Okay, our contestants can like,our listeners can like.

Speaker 3 (42:16):
What is Jenny wearing on her hands today?

Speaker 1 (42:18):
Yeah, the five speed, though, like because it's a
lower speed, I felt reallyconfident that it was going to
do what I expected it to do, andthe fact that it just flipped

(42:38):
up and went like it got on a busand left yeah, no, I'm serious,
I watch it I watch it and it'slike well, why are you going all
the way over there?
It's like it's just there's anaudible sound as my jaw drops of

(43:02):
why are you doing this?
To me, no, that's not the soundthat's appropriate.

Speaker 2 (43:10):
Do you have?

Speaker 1 (43:11):
an airplane or a bus, no also not Okay also not, it
was a really good shot, Like itwent really far.
I was super proud of it.
It just went the wrong way.
Quit with the sound effects Ifyou don't want me clapping you
don't get to push buttons.

Speaker 3 (43:25):
No, you're good, you're good.

Speaker 1 (43:27):
But like so I.

Speaker 3 (43:31):
So, from the perspective of what we're
talking about here, it's when adisc flips over, it's because
you have too much forwardvelocity and not enough
rotations, not enough spin.
Now it could have been acombination of that and also
your release ankle, because itis.

(43:52):
It is completely possible totweak your wrist there at the
last moment or something andcrank it over, and I do it all
the time, and that has more todo with foot placement and it
also has to do with, uh,collapsing your shoulder so I

(44:14):
really think that I did a reallygood job this weekend of
throwing with relatively thecorrect angle.

Speaker 1 (44:23):
Like I didn't have many form concerns, so I I don't
think it was that level ofsomething I could fix like I
think it has more to do with meneeding to actually understand

(44:43):
what these things do.

Speaker 3 (44:45):
So let's say, if there was like so how I gave um
so when, when you threw the shot, did it feel like you threw it
correctly?

Speaker 1 (45:00):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (45:01):
Like you didn't grip lock it, you didn't turn it over
Like it was, you released itcorrectly.
Yeah, like you didn't grip lockit, you didn't turn it over
like it was, you released it onplane Good.

Speaker 1 (45:07):
The F nine.
Yes, the mana.
On that first shot I may havetwisted a little further.
Okay, so the reason I went intothe swamp is because your
release angle is poor, yourtechnique was poor and you
consider not necessarily notnecessarily, but I'm taking a
stab at it, it and it went waymore than it should have just by

(45:31):
if I was a little bit like, ifI twisted just a little bit more
so well, well, let's let's talkabout both.

Speaker 3 (45:40):
You know, first of all, you, in any round of disc
golf, you're going to throwbetween 50 and 100 shots roughly
, and so that's just one shotout of many, many that you could
have done correctly and youmight have messed up that one
shot.
And it doesn't take much tomess up.
It's very, very slight, becausewhile I'm watching the tech

(46:02):
disc readouts from ezra aderhold, uh, the amount of angle that
he puts on his disc heiser,anheiser, nose up, nose down, it
is very, very slight.
I mean, we're talking abouthalf a degree here and there.
So it's very, very slight.
And that much of a change cancause a huge difference,

(46:23):
especially when you're throwingharder and faster, which you
have been lately.
Now your F9, you're talkingabout earlier how you were
throwing it really really welland then it kind of did bad
things for you and startedtailing off and being all funky
and then you started throwing itwell again.

(46:44):
The difference between thosetime frames is like you went
from like a medium arm speed foryou to a very fast arm speed.
So, and that's why we switchedover to the mantra and put that
in your bag, because that wasworking well for you and had a
lot more stability to be able to, you know, keep you going I

(47:04):
cannot tell you how excited I amthat I can actually have
thought space discs in my bagnow oh yeah, that's cool like I
am so excited but then.
but then the reason that you canthrow the f9 again is because
your arm speed actuallydecreased a little bit, and I
think that's because you're kindof rewinding and working on
some different techniques andnot throwing as hard, because

(47:29):
you're working on incorporatingyour walk-up as where you were a
purely standstill player for avery long time.

Speaker 1 (47:35):
No, I was intentionally a standstill
player for a year.

Speaker 3 (47:39):
No, I'm just saying you were purely a standstill,
like that's.
All you threw was a standstillright every single shot and that
was intentional well, no, I'mnot saying that it wasn't, yeah,
I'm just saying that that wasthat was your mo, so I actually
have questions go if you were so, if I had said round one hey,

(47:59):
hey, I had these shots, they didthat, whatever.

Speaker 1 (48:05):
Is there anything short that I would be able to
like improve in like 30 secondsor so to possibly fix my disc
from doing that, so that then Ican also see if that change,
like I would have a betterunderstanding if that's the

(48:27):
problem, because the changefixes the problem.

Speaker 3 (48:31):
If well, let's talk about your mana.
Mana is specifically soccer man, man, specifically the.
The reason it flipped over wasbecause it was moving too fast
in relationship to the spin thatwas on the disc.

Speaker 1 (48:48):
So what does that mean?

Speaker 3 (48:49):
It could have been a poor release.
It means one of two thingsEither you need to not throw it
as fast, or you need to be ableto create more spin on the disc.

Speaker 1 (49:05):
Now the 30-second fix .
So, like no walk-up, or like,because there are times like
when I start throwing the discpoorly, I'll just go back to a
standstill, because mystandstills are still like great
spot on, just I've my drives,I've stopped driving with a

(49:32):
standstill.
So if I that's always my if I'mreally doing poor, I will stop
doing my walk up.

Speaker 3 (49:39):
So the way I would fix it is add more spin, so I
would I would.

Speaker 1 (49:44):
How do I do that I?

Speaker 3 (49:45):
would tighten my grip , I would widen out my reach
back and then when I came backinto the power pocket, I'd make
sure I kept my arm up and out,away from my body, and really
crack the whip at the end of mythrow.
It almost kind of feels likeyou're sawing off your shot, but

(50:11):
the momentum of your hips andthe torque of your core should
swing you around to a fullfollow-through.

Speaker 1 (50:20):
So the 30-second fix for that, uh, what you're
talking about is also you canadd a little bit more hyzer
angle I don't want to go intoangles, okay, like I don't,
because honestly that's really,it's part of the mental game,

(50:43):
that it's just one more thing inthere at this point.

Speaker 3 (50:46):
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (50:47):
Where it's like I can't remember it all, like
there's there's too much in myhead when I'm trying to get
ready to throw that I can'tclear my head and just throw
that I can't clear my head andjust throw.

Speaker 3 (51:04):
Well, I can really appreciate that, because in any
disc golf throw there's athousand plus things to remember
all at once and connect themall together and do them
flawlessly.
And increasing the mental gameof that is one of the hardest
things to do, because trying tomemorize a thousand different

(51:26):
steps plus is it takes a longtime and a lot of practice.

Speaker 1 (51:32):
Well, that's the.
I forget what we were listeningto, what I was listening to.
But isn't that like discipline?
Is that you've?
You've done this thing so manytimes the practice that it just
becomes?

Speaker 3 (51:51):
second nature.

Speaker 1 (51:52):
I don't even want to say second nature, but it just
becomes like fluid.

Speaker 3 (51:57):
Well, part of that is it's the uh, and we'll talk
about this more in the feed.
Is it the feedback episode?
I believe?

Speaker 1 (52:07):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (52:07):
Yeah, but the step, the steps of learning, where you
start off in heavy instructionand you have it's in the
executive reasoning part of yourbrain where you're trying to
work it out and reason it out,and everything reasoning part of
your brain where you're tryingto work it out and reason it out
, and everything.
And then the job, the job of theplayer, is to take that and

(52:28):
move it into the primal brain.
And the primal brain is justthat natural reaction brain.
So you know it's like your gagreflex or your fight or flight,
and so you're trying to takethis very complex motion from
the executive centers in yourbrain and move them into your
dinosaur brain.

Speaker 1 (52:47):
Chill out Like no, chill out.
You're, you're getting.

Speaker 3 (52:53):
I'm getting excited Cause that's, it's no you need
to calm down.

Speaker 1 (52:57):
If I don't get to clap my hands, you need to calm
down.

Speaker 3 (53:00):
It's foreshadowing an episode that we have coming up.

Speaker 1 (53:03):
Don't push any more buttons you mean like this one,
I will turn the Eric.

Speaker 2 (53:07):
Oakley here and you are listening to the Intentional
Disc Golfer Podcast.

Speaker 1 (53:10):
You just had Eric Oakley cut me off.
That's so not like him.

Speaker 3 (53:18):
No, no, eric Oakley was a very, very, very nice
human he is a very very nicehuman.
Well, when we had him on hetreated us wonderfully, so yeah,
I hope he comes up to thecascade challenge I hope so too.
It'd be nice to see him again.

Speaker 1 (53:30):
Okay, so back to our abcs.
The forward momentum of thedisc is caused by your throw and

(53:51):
the spin is caused by therelease.
And if you have enough forwardmomentum and spin, it causes the
disc to become stable right,stable in the sense as it in

(54:12):
that it won't move as in physicsstable.
Yes, it'll resist motion motionokay or variation, I should say
if the disc wobbles, it has toomuch forward momentum and not
enough spin if the disc wobbles,you're dealing with a whole

(54:34):
separate thing altogether andthat's off.

Speaker 3 (54:37):
Okay, stop, that's off.
Access torque just All right.

Speaker 1 (54:40):
Because you had mentioned it.

Speaker 3 (54:46):
I'm trying to put together all these pieces
because you have In the episodeI did mention it.

Speaker 1 (54:49):
Nope, You've been talking about it now.
Okay.
Okay, when you listen backyou're going to be like dang it,
she's right.

Speaker 3 (54:58):
What's the root of what you're trying to get to?

Speaker 1 (55:01):
I'm trying to make sense of any of this and put it
all together.
I've been working on this atleast since this morning, in
between actually working my job.
Um, so if it has too littlespin, it will flip and go the

(55:30):
wrong way.

Speaker 3 (55:31):
Yes, if it has too little spin, it'll be very much
tougher to control.

Speaker 1 (55:36):
What if it has more spin than forward momentum has
more spin than forward momentum.

Speaker 3 (55:44):
Well then, it'll be more overstable.
It'll be a lot more floaty anda lot more glidey.

Speaker 1 (55:52):
So like a putter yeah a putter so like when I hulk
out my putter, probably.
Or like when the disc so, likewhen we're watching the pros and
it's still spinning when itlands.

Speaker 3 (56:07):
Well, no.

Speaker 1 (56:10):
Because that's really cool.

Speaker 3 (56:11):
A putter is very stable.
It's a very stable designphysically speaking, not as far
as disability goes.
So physically speaking a putteris very stable.
It'll hold a nice straight lineand that's because it'll rotate
nice and fast but because ofthe profile of the rim it's not

(56:32):
gonna.
It's not gonna have a lot ofspeed because that air is going
to push up against that rim andit's going to slow it down.
But it's going to hold it spinbecause the more stable a disc
is, the more it will hold a spin.

Speaker 1 (56:47):
Okay, so let's talk about a disc we haven't talked
about.
Okay, let's talk about my.
It's the same color as a groundMerlot mantra.

Speaker 3 (56:55):
Oh, the red mantra.

Speaker 1 (56:56):
Yeah, that I have two of.
I like and everyone's likedon't tell me you have a second
one.
The same mantra, and everyone'slike.
Don't tell me you have a secondone the same color.
It's like I do.
It seems to work for you.

Speaker 3 (57:05):
It's my favorite.

Speaker 1 (57:06):
I know it seems to work for you and it's hilarious
because I'll be like I need helpwith.
Oh, never mind, there it is.
They're like how can you findthat it?
Just it calls to me Okay, okay,so don't push sound buttons.

Speaker 3 (57:21):
It calls to you.

Speaker 1 (57:22):
No, oh my God, speaking of which, we made
Brandon watch Wicked and I criedthe whole time, just like I did
at the play with Kaylee.
Anyways, so the mantra On hole13,.
So it's that long one.
You walk halfway.

(57:44):
The basket's over there.

Speaker 3 (57:46):
Yeah, that one.
I know exactly which one you'retalking about.

Speaker 1 (57:49):
Okay, so Really.

Speaker 3 (57:55):
I don't the basket's over there and you walk a long
way.
That could be About 95% of alldisc golf holes okay in america
in the world at sea, tack Idon't there's only one hole that
you walk all the way back toand the basket further.

(58:16):
I know what you're talkingabout see, you actually know I
actually know what you'retalking about now that I'm
getting the picture, okay, so Imade my drive shot whatever.

Speaker 1 (58:28):
Yeah.
And then yeah, did we playtogether on the same thing for
team golf?
When we met at c-tech yeah okay, so remember, probably not.
I had a second shot and insteadof it curving in, so the hyzer
with that fade that I'm used towith it, it lifted up and went

(58:49):
straight.
The mantra yeah, and it landedback behind the tree and it
wasn't that bad, but I was like,oh my God, it, you know, got on
a bus and left, so it did thatagain.
Yeah, was did my disc do thatinstead of what it normally does
?
Because it had less spin thanforward momentum.

(59:16):
Well, am I understanding this?
Like, can I apply this andunderstand why my disc is doing
that?

Speaker 3 (59:25):
yet, like, yes, you, you can apply it.
Your mantra is there's a lot ofthings going on with your
mantra.
I know, I know you can't, youcan't take this as any one thing
or the other.

Speaker 1 (59:38):
There's angles, there's wind, there's spin.
No, we are focusing on onething, one thing only Okay, okay
.
Why did my disc do that?
Your disc flipped?
Why does it occasionally dothat?
It flipped because why?

Speaker 3 (59:58):
It flipped up because you were able to release it on
a slight hyzer angle.
You passed.
What's the speed on that disc?

Speaker 1 (01:00:10):
Do you told me not to worry about any of the flight
numbers, anything like that?
Okay, we're just talking aboutyou met.

Speaker 3 (01:00:15):
you met or exceeded the speed requirement for that
disc.
Okay, which would be the speed?
And so when you hit thatthreshold or exceed that
threshold, the center of liftand the center of gravity, they
reach this equilibrium point,depending on which angle you

(01:00:38):
release it on, where it'll flipup to flat, and then it's
equilibrium.
The spin is going to keep itstable as far as physically
stable in that equilibrium state.
Now, because it is a morestable disc than, say, your F
nine, because it's a negativetwo supposed to be talking about

(01:01:00):
those things because it's anegative two.
Two instead of a negative.
Four, supposed to be talkingabout those things.
Because it's a negative to toinstead of a negative for one.

Speaker 1 (01:01:04):
Negative for one as opposed to any ballerinas to to
yeah, whatever.

Speaker 3 (01:01:11):
So a more stable disc is going to keep it spin better
than an under stable disc.
So what will happen is you'regoing to throw it forward, meet
the threshold, it's going toflip up, reach equilibrium, it's
going to fly and spin at itscruising kind of state and then,
because it's going to hold itsspin better, more efficiently

(01:01:34):
than, say, an understable disc,a more understable disc, instead
of it nosing up and ploppingdown to the ground, it's going
to float out a lot longer than,say, like a, an f9 would,
because an f9 when it reachesthe end of its flight, it kind
of noses up and then it comesstraight down you are not

(01:01:55):
answering my question.

Speaker 1 (01:01:56):
You're supposed to be making this easier, easy, dumb
it down for me.
Quit going high level andanswer my question okay, what is
the direct question?
Why did my mantra flip up andgo basically straight for a long

(01:02:29):
time, instead of it doing thehyzer that I expected it to do?

Speaker 3 (01:02:45):
that I expected it to do, Because you threw it with
sufficient enough speed and spinfor it to.
It flips up because of thespeed and it stabilizes because
of the spin.

Speaker 1 (01:02:56):
So that was a good shot and all the rest are not.

Speaker 3 (01:03:01):
That was a great shot , and I'm not saying that all
the other ones are not, but thatwas.
You probably threw it really,really fast.

Speaker 1 (01:03:17):
So that's what it should be doing.

Speaker 3 (01:03:19):
That's what it should be doing, because what's your
mantra?

Speaker 1 (01:03:21):
It's a you told me not to talk about numbers for
this.

Speaker 3 (01:03:25):
No, no, for this part .
You want to.
So it's a 10, five negative twotwo.

Speaker 1 (01:03:29):
Nope, you're making things up.

Speaker 3 (01:03:30):
What is it?

Speaker 1 (01:03:31):
It's a nine something .

Speaker 3 (01:03:33):
It's like a nine five negative two, two Probably.
I know it's like a valkyrieyeah but some of the other ones
are like a negative two one.
So yeah, yeah.
So you threw it fast enoughthat it flipped up.

Speaker 1 (01:03:49):
You had enough spin on it that it stayed stable in
equilibrium and because it's amore physically stable disc,
it's going to float out at theend, because it'll hold it spin
better so one thing that clickedwith me when I was playing was

(01:04:11):
I remember ella and hollandsaying all of your discs are
probably gonna go to the rightnow because you're throwing them
the correct way when you'reused to them going left.

Speaker 2 (01:04:23):
Mm-hmm.

Speaker 1 (01:04:24):
So are you saying that I'm starting to throw those
more correctly?

Speaker 3 (01:04:32):
Yes.

Speaker 1 (01:04:33):
Okay.

Speaker 3 (01:04:35):
You're starting to throw those with sufficient
enough arm speed to engage thesecondary flight characteristics
which is the turn and fade,turn and fade.
Yes, I can see the wheelsturning.
Yeah, I can see the wheelsturning.

(01:04:58):
So well, let's, let's map thisout.
You got your book right there,let's not mapping, Come on let's
map out wheels turning.
So well, let's map this out.

Speaker 1 (01:05:05):
You got your book right there.
I'm not mapping.
Come on, let's map out yourmantra.
No, we're not going to that Ineed.
You've already put enough.
I'm leading this, I'm trying tounderstand in a way that makes
sense to me.

Speaker 3 (01:05:16):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (01:05:19):
I'm not mapping anything out, so I could take
notes if I needed to do so.

Speaker 3 (01:05:23):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (01:05:23):
Okay, I think I'm at a point where I think I have all
that I can deal with.

Speaker 3 (01:05:35):
Absorb.
Yes, I think I'm going to haveto go out and throw some discs
in order to come up with my nextset of questions well, any, any
questions that you might haveon your mind, just rattle them
off, because we're recordingthis and you're going to be able
to play it back and this is notonly for also for the listeners

(01:05:58):
.
Yeah, um so just just shoot no,I think.

Speaker 1 (01:06:06):
I think that's so.
To recap, the forward momentumis caused by your throw, your
arm speed, yeah, which I'mequating all together as your
legs, all the hip, all that.
I don't want to say arm speed,because I know my throw doesn't

(01:06:27):
come from my arm, it comes frommy core.
So my understanding is thatwhen my discs flip up and go,

(01:06:49):
that's actually a sign of a goodshot for me right now, where
I'm learning, because I've metthe requirements for forward
momentum speed and spin.

Speaker 3 (01:07:08):
Well, you have to think of it as just speed,
because momentum is mass andvelocity, so just speed.

Speaker 1 (01:07:20):
Okay, so what's the difference between speed and
momentum?

Speaker 3 (01:07:25):
momentum is mass times, velocity.
So when you're thinking interms of disc golf, you have
your arm speed, which is yourvelocity, and when you toy with
one variable or the other themaster, the velocity it changes

(01:07:45):
the outcome.
So if the amount of energy thatyou're putting into the, into
the disc, is the same, okay.
So the amount of energy thatyou're releasing the disc with
is the same, the amount ofenergy that you're releasing the
disc with is the same.
You have to get to that pointsomehow.
So if you have a lower weightdisc, you're going to need more

(01:08:09):
speed to reach the same amountof energy that you're throwing
with Now.
Vice versa, if you have aheavier disc, you're going to
have to lower your arm speed,but you're still releasing the
disc with the same amount ofenergy.
And these things happennaturally because of just the

(01:08:33):
weight of the disc, the mass ofthe disc.
I'm more confused now.

Speaker 1 (01:08:54):
I know, I know quit answering my questions in in
that way.

Speaker 3 (01:08:55):
So it's a.
It's an algebra problem?
No, it's not.
It's a times b equals.
Let's just say a times b equalsa hundred a times b equals ab
anthony bruno.

Speaker 1 (01:09:09):
Yeah, that'd be cool to have him on the podcast it
would be cool if you wouldanswer my questions in a way
that doesn't confuse me furtherit's, it's this is why I teach
and you don't it's an, it'salgebra, god, it's just algebra.
So, if you have, if you havewould be that teacher that
everyone would fail becausenobody would know what the heck

(01:09:32):
is going on it's a times bequals c.

Speaker 3 (01:09:35):
So if a times b equals, let's just say, 50.
Okay.
So if B goes up, a needs to godown, okay, in order to get to
the 50.

Speaker 1 (01:09:53):
Okay If but that's not even.
You're not even answering myquestion.

Speaker 3 (01:10:01):
Okay, go ahead.

Speaker 1 (01:10:02):
At all.

Speaker 3 (01:10:03):
What is?

Speaker 1 (01:10:03):
it, because, isn't it ?
When you throw the disc, it hasmomentum.

Speaker 3 (01:10:09):
It has momentum because the disc possesses both
mass and velocity.
Yes, Right.

Speaker 1 (01:10:14):
So when I throw my disc and it gets up and leaves
and it gets up and leaves, ithas the correct speed to create
the correct momentum of the discand it has the correct spin
Right.

Speaker 3 (01:10:33):
When it gets up and leaves.
Yes, you have a nice balance ofspin and velocity.

Speaker 1 (01:10:44):
Okay.

Speaker 3 (01:10:45):
Now we're getting somewhere, maybe Good Lord.

Speaker 1 (01:10:52):
So I should anticipate that my discs are
going to do this more often.

Speaker 3 (01:11:00):
Especially as you get stronger and your form gets
better.

Speaker 1 (01:11:04):
yes, Okay, I'm probably going to have to listen
to this episode, too, in orderto come up with some questions,
because I still don't get it andI'm not going to get it any

(01:11:25):
further than I have, because I'mat that point where I nope, no
more explaining from you.
You've explained enough.
So I'm not.
Nope, I'm not getting it likeyou.
You just need to give me sometime.
Let it, let it hopefully sinkin.

Speaker 3 (01:11:46):
Are you sure?

Speaker 1 (01:11:48):
Yeah, I'm done listening to you.
Can you can keep recording I?
Just I, I can't hear anymore.

Speaker 3 (01:11:55):
The practical.
This applies in so many areas.

Speaker 1 (01:11:58):
You took my pen.

Speaker 3 (01:11:59):
I know if, if C is a constant right, if we have A
times B equals C, if C is aconstant right, we can assign
that a constant number.
That never changes, right?
So C for constant.
If A goes up, b has to go down.
If B goes up, a has to go down.
Did I just say that twice?

(01:12:20):
If A goes up, b go down.
If B goes up, a has to go down.
Did I just say that twice?
If A goes up, b goes down.
If B, if A goes down, b goes up, because the constant has to
stay the same.
Okay, so we can think aboutthis in terms of energy.
We can think about this as no,we can think about this in terms
of speed and spin.

Speaker 1 (01:12:42):
You're not making it any clearer right now.
I've asked my questions and nowI'm more confused.

Speaker 3 (01:12:51):
Now you're more confused.

Speaker 1 (01:12:53):
We'll have to try again another time.

Speaker 3 (01:12:57):
Let's go from practical application no more
math.
Okay, if your disc is flippingover, you need to do what?
Cry, sit and cry correct waitfor the fire alarm to go up
again if um, if your disc isflipping up, if my disc flips up

(01:13:20):
and goes for a mile.

Speaker 1 (01:13:24):
I do not correct it by getting rid of that disc and
discing up or getting let's talkpractical application If your
disc is flipping over, not upflipping over.
See, but that's the thing I'veseen where it flips over and it

(01:13:46):
actually goes like this right,it flips over like over, but
they didn't flip over, they justflipped up.
It's not like we don't havediscs all over the dining room
where we record.

Speaker 3 (01:14:02):
We don't have discs all over the holy thing.
Thousands and hundreds.
How many discs do you?

Speaker 1 (01:14:08):
think we have now.
I keep getting rid of them atour tournaments.
I know we keep getting rid ofthem.
They keep multiplying.

Speaker 3 (01:14:14):
Okay, so think about this from my perspective.
Okay, so think about this frommy perspective.
Okay, so you throw disc onhyzer.
Flipping over is where it turnsall the way over and turns into
a roller.

Speaker 1 (01:14:30):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:14:30):
Why does that happen?

Speaker 1 (01:14:32):
Because it has too much spin.

Speaker 3 (01:14:34):
No.

Speaker 1 (01:14:35):
Because you wanted a roller.

Speaker 3 (01:14:37):
No.

Speaker 1 (01:14:38):
Because it's the wrong disc.

Speaker 3 (01:14:39):
No, Because it's too fast, too fast.
So how?
How can I correct that?

Speaker 1 (01:14:48):
um, I can do one of two things have me throw it
instead how can take speed offof it or wow, increased spin

(01:15:10):
okay, but my disc didn't flipover, it just flipped up and got
on a train and left yeah, andthat's because you had.

Speaker 3 (01:15:19):
You had enough speed to flip it up and then it had
enough spin to stay stable andfly.

Speaker 1 (01:15:29):
Right, and that's what I was trying to explain.
When you asked me aboutpractical application.
I'm not talking about itflipping over, because neither
of them flipped over.
I didn't have any discs flipover, because I know what that
is.

Speaker 3 (01:15:43):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (01:15:44):
That's a bad idea.

Speaker 3 (01:15:46):
It's a bad shot.
Yeah, unless you're trying todo that.

Speaker 1 (01:15:50):
Yeah, which is this the same?
Okay, is this the same as whenI try and do a turnover and then
it goes left instead of goingright, like it has?
Is that because it has too much, not enough speed and it gives

(01:16:11):
up?
No okay, then never mind nojust never mind, I didn't ask so
.
Practical application when itflips up.
I did a good job.
Yes, okay, that's all I need toknow.
We're done.

(01:16:35):
We're done, all done.

Speaker 3 (01:16:38):
All done.
Yes, so these things work inrelationship to each other.
The speed and the spin work inrelationship to each other, and
so faster it's going, the moreit has to spin.

Speaker 1 (01:16:51):
I don't know how you're going to cut this episode
, because it's going to beawesome.

Speaker 3 (01:16:56):
It's going to be awesome.
The faster it goes, the more ithas to spin in order for it to
stay stable.
If it's not moving fast enough,it's going to be awesome.
The faster it goes, the more ithas to spin in order for it to
stay stable.
If it's not moving fast enough,it's going to wobble, or if
it's not spinning fast enough,it's going to wobble and
eventually flip over.

Speaker 1 (01:17:07):
Okay, so what are all the throws that I have now?

Speaker 3 (01:17:12):
What do you mean?
Like the different shot shapes.

Speaker 1 (01:17:16):
No, what I'm let you articulate.
So if when the disc flips upand goes is a good shot and
that's rare what are all theother ones Bad shots?
Well, yes, but why do they work?

(01:17:38):
For me?
There's simple.

Speaker 3 (01:17:44):
I'm not exactly sure what you're asking to tell you
the truth.

Speaker 1 (01:17:48):
Okay, so if my F nine I can throw straight, but it's
really supposed to go over thereto the right.
Yeah, as I drop my water.

Speaker 3 (01:18:03):
And that's because when you throw your F nine, you
usually throw it on a hyzerrelease.
So it goes.
It starts out like this right,and because of forward momentum,
forward velocity, it flips upand it's got enough spin on it
to keep it like this and maybeslightly anhyzer.

(01:18:23):
So it'll go like this start todrift to the right and then
it'll nose up and come down andthat's the flight path of your
f9 because I don't normally haveenough no, that's arm speed
that's when it's throwncorrectly, and the the harder

(01:18:44):
you throw it, the more of anangle you're going to need to
put it on, because the furtherit's going to have to travel to
reach the equilibrium betweencenter of gravity and the center
of lift I'm so signing off yeah, good night world good night

(01:19:06):
world.
So you?
The problem with this subjectis you can't break it down into
one or two terms because youhave so many things affecting
the disc during its flight thatyou don't understand scaffolding

(01:19:27):
when it comes to teaching, I dounderstand scaffolding, I do.
Is you gotta start off simple?

Speaker 1 (01:19:35):
and you gotta, you gotta snowball it's just we're
we're talking at college level.

Speaker 3 (01:19:39):
The the problem?
The problem is is that you knowthese are interconnected
systems and you can't have onewithout the other, without the
other, without the other, so youjust kind of have to talk about
it all at once so we can breakit down conceptually.
But each concept affects theother concept and so it's just.

(01:20:03):
It's a big kind of cloud ofinformation, and I can see where
it'd be diff easy to get lostin the fog.

Speaker 1 (01:20:19):
I'm going to jump on with that mantra and get on the
bus and leave.

Speaker 3 (01:20:25):
Oh, you're moving too fast.

Speaker 1 (01:20:27):
I need a break.
I don't get it.

Speaker 3 (01:20:29):
You're not spinning enough.

Speaker 1 (01:20:30):
I don't know I'm spinning plenty.

Speaker 3 (01:20:33):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (01:20:35):
So think of, think of no, no more thing like a putter
, we're done like a putter.

Speaker 3 (01:20:39):
Owen Scoggins, why does her putter flutter?

Speaker 1 (01:20:42):
Because she's amazing .

Speaker 3 (01:20:44):
When she putts it?
Why does her putter flutter?

Speaker 1 (01:20:45):
Dude, we said we weren't talking about that
because I tried to use thatvocab just a little bit ago and
you're like no.

Speaker 3 (01:20:51):
Putter flutter.

Speaker 1 (01:20:52):
Yeah, not talking about wobbling.

Speaker 3 (01:20:56):
Why does it wobble?

Speaker 1 (01:20:57):
We're not having that discussion.

Speaker 3 (01:20:59):
That's true.
Why, I don't know why does itwobble?

Speaker 1 (01:21:01):
Because it's spinning faster than it's going.

Speaker 3 (01:21:03):
No.

Speaker 1 (01:21:04):
Okay, see, I'm good.

Speaker 3 (01:21:06):
It's not spinning fast enough.

Speaker 1 (01:21:08):
That's what I said before, and you said no.

Speaker 3 (01:21:11):
That's not what you yes it is.
That's what.
I was trying to explain beforeGood night so, anyway, wrapping
things up here for this episode,uh, we were just basically
wanted to have an opendiscussion about the flight
numbers episode and answer somequestions and try to better

(01:21:31):
clarify and discuss somedifferent aspects of the science
of the flight numbers, and so,um, some of you may have had
your questions answered, some ofus may be more confused than
when we started, but at least wewere able to do this and
hopefully it was productive.

(01:21:51):
So, again, we'd like to thankall of our fans for sticking
with us and supporters over theyears, and if you would like to
become a fan supporter, etcetera, et cetera, please hit
that like subscribe, follow abutton, and you can do that on
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(01:22:12):
At Saprinsky disc golf that isCZU PRY NSKI disc golf all one
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Our handle is at the IDGpodcast, that is, at the IDG
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gmailcom or support the show bymaybe giving a little bit.

(01:22:36):
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Backslash the intentional discgolfer and please hang out after
the episode.
There will be some bloopers andouttakes for you to listen to
and maybe get a good laugh outof it.
So again, I am one of yourintentional disc golfers.

(01:22:59):
My my name is Brandon.

Speaker 1 (01:23:01):
And I'm very confused .
I'm Jenny, oh God.

Speaker 3 (01:23:10):
And here at the intentional golf you got me.
And here at the intentionaldisc golfer, we really truly
believe that disc golf changeslives.
So go out there.

Speaker 1 (01:23:24):
And confuses you as well.

Speaker 3 (01:23:27):
And grow the sport.
Thank you for listening to thisepisode of the Intentional Disc
Golfer Podcast.
These are the bloopers andouttakes from this latest

(01:23:47):
episode.
We do have to warn you thatprofanity may be used and
sensitive topics may bediscussed.
Listener discretion is highlyadvised.
To avoid this, please stoplistening and move on to the
next episode.
Now Chuck puts on a heck of agood tournament.
He really does All right.

Speaker 1 (01:24:12):
So we would also no hold on Smoke alarms, Not only
for telling you when the bacon'sdone, but when your kid is done
in the shower.
There you go.
You better believe it.

Speaker 3 (01:24:21):
Is that what.
When your kid is done in theshower, there we go.
You better believe it.
Is that what?
It was the kid in the shower?
I'm pretty sure it hasn't goneoff all day since I changed the
batteries.

Speaker 1 (01:24:29):
I thought you just knew.

Speaker 3 (01:24:30):
All right whatever.

Speaker 1 (01:24:32):
Okay, so I'm talking with my hands.

Speaker 3 (01:24:35):
Yeah, just be careful .

Speaker 2 (01:24:36):
I have this so that I can write.

Speaker 3 (01:24:37):
Just be careful not to pound on the table and stuff
With your elbows and your hands.
Yeah, that type of thing.

Speaker 1 (01:24:48):
I'm excited, I know you are, and I'm participating.

Speaker 3 (01:24:51):
I love that you're participating.

Speaker 1 (01:24:55):
I need a fidget.
Hand me the squirrel.
What squirrel Over there.

Speaker 3 (01:25:00):
Oh, that squirrel Does it make noise?
Yeah, good.

Speaker 1 (01:25:05):
No a baker does it's so soft.
I'll be here.

Speaker 2 (01:25:08):
I'm here.

Speaker 1 (01:25:11):
What do I need?
What's Baker doing Licking hisbutt?

Speaker 3 (01:25:17):
I thought he was eating something, or a baker's
scale.

Speaker 1 (01:25:21):
What's Baker doing Licking his butt?

Speaker 3 (01:25:22):
I thought he was eating something or a baker's
scale, yeah, so you try to getboth sides to balance out, and
so you're playing this balancingact and on one side of the
scale is forward momentum,forward velocity, and on the
other side is spin and a firealarm.
And on the other side is a spinand a fire alarm, but your core

(01:25:53):
generates two different forces.

Speaker 1 (01:25:56):
All right so what?
Were we talking about Don'tthrow no gang signs at me oh.
Yeah, so our ideas are so hot,the fire alarms keep going off.
Good night, it is bedtime atthe Saprinsky.

Speaker 3 (01:26:14):
House.
It's getting there, yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:26:17):
That's what we get for recording on a school night.

Speaker 2 (01:26:21):
Or getting.

Speaker 1 (01:26:22):
Good lord, I am so fucking over that.
Yes, I swore I am getting tiredof this.
I am trying to ask youquestions and get actual answers
and you're making me moreconfused and it's really pissing
me off.
Okay, okay, okay all right gookay, what was your question?
Okay, when my disc flips up,what?

Speaker 3 (01:26:47):
no, you're not leaving yet I'm leaving.
No hold on you, gotta do theoutro there is no outro, there
is an outro good night, cruelworld yeah, no shit.

Speaker 1 (01:26:59):
What did johnny, johnny Carson always say?

Speaker 3 (01:27:04):
I don't know, I don't know what Johnny Carson always
I used to not like Johnny Carson.
I know he's an icon, but Idon't know, not my cup of tea.

Speaker 1 (01:27:11):
That's not even who I'm thinking of.

Speaker 3 (01:27:13):
Who are you thinking of?