Mastering Disc Golf Flight: The Science Behind the Numbers

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:17):
Welcome to the Intentional Disc Golfer Podcast, the show
dedicated to helping you elevateyour disc golf game with
purpose and strategy.
Whether you're stepping up tothe tee for the first time or
you're a seasoned pro chasingthat perfect round, this podcast
is your guide to playingsmarter, training better and
building confidence on thecourse.

(00:38):
We are, brandon and JennySaprinsky, passionate disc
golfers, here to exploreeverything from technique,
course management, mental focusand gear selection.
Grab your favorite disc, settlein and let's take your game to

(00:59):
the next level.
Intentionally.
Thank you for coming back to theintentional disc golfer podcast
.
This is the reboot you havebeen waiting for season 2.1 and,
uh, I am one of your hosts.

(01:20):
My name is brandon I'm jennyand she's jenny.
First of all, we would like tothank the fans, all of our
supporters, for staying with usthroughout the years.
Life happens and we're happy tobe back and if you love us,
appreciate us, love listening tous, please don't hesitate to
hit the like, subscribe, followbutton.

(01:41):
Uh, you can find us on oursocial medias on facebook and
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(02:02):
send us an email attheintentionaldiscgolfer@gmail.
com,theintentionaldiscgolfer@gmail.
com.
And if you would like tosupport the cause we also have a
Patreon, patreon.
com/theintentionaldiscgolfer.
And stay tuned.
At the end of the end of thisepisode, after the credits,
we're going to be adding in alittle bit of a blooper reel.

(02:23):
So if there's any littlebloopers or mess ups or anything
, get a good laugh.
We'll put those at the end ofthe episode after the outro
music.
So stay tuned for that.
Every time you say Patreon, Ithink of Harry Potter.
Why.

Speaker 1 (02:38):
The.

(02:38):
Patronus, oh the Patronus.
You can follow us on ourPatronus page and there'll be a
giant glowing deer.
Come out of the woods and saveyour hinder.
I'm gonna have a squirrel.
You know, a giant glowingsquirrel.
Yep, okay, okay.
And jenny, we have a fewcommunity calendar updates and

(02:58):
what nots going on.
What the what's happening inthe community there?

Speaker 1 (03:03):
Yeah, so we got volunteered into Team Disc Golf
this year so we will be playingfor part of the Washington State
Team Disc Golf.
We will be on Team Grit Citysupporting Tacoma Washington
with their new course, hopefullysomewhere around Cheney Stadium

(03:26):
, looking forward to having thatcome into play.
So actually on Sunday we haveour first time ever playing Team
Disc Golf over in Maple Valley.

(03:37):
I'm super excited and honored to be a part of Team Disc Golf
this year.
I just have to tell you thatI'm stoked.

Speaker 1 (03:46):
Next weekend we are double booked.
We have the eighth annualSeaTac Tree Smack, put on by Mr
Chuck Mintz.
Brandon will be playing onSaturday in MA3, and I will be
playing on Sunday in the women'sdivisions, and Brandon will be
playing team disc golf on Sundaywhile I'm at SeaTac Got the old

(04:08):
double header there, yep, andhe'll be in Lacey, and then
that's all we're doing, that'sall we're committed to so far
through, like the end of March,yeah well a lot of this year's
tournaments.

(04:23):
2025 tournaments haven't updated yet, but we are super
excited that the pro tour iscoming back to Shelton this year
the elite series actually.

Speaker 1 (04:33):
Yep Uh.
May 16th through the 18th theywill be in Shelton with the two
new holes.

(04:40):
Uh, those two new holes are ridiculously long holes, oh yeah
.

Speaker 1 (04:49):
And we will be running Sirens of the Springs
for the third year on May 3rdand we will be debuting the
Titans of the Timbers Tritons.

(04:55):
Tritons, the Tritons of the Timbers.

Speaker 1 (04:57):
Tritons of the Timbers on the following Sunday.

(05:01):
So we have a women's event and kind of a more male Well, we
have a mixed event the next day,yeah, so the idea here is is
that you know, guys come out andsupport ladies.
You know, carry the bag forthem.
Uh, you know, carry theirrefreshments, their water
bottles, give them a lot ofencouragement and then hang out,
because the next day you canall play together and we can

(05:22):
have two tournaments back toback and everybody can be there
and hopefully it's a greatturnout.

Speaker 1 (05:26):
Yeah, and super honored to also share that.
Our tournament, sirens of theSprings, was one of the highest
voted events of the ladiesseries this year.
So super excited to get to runit again and also share that
type of tournament with the guysin the community, because a lot
of the tournaments that aremixed don't necessarily get the

(05:48):
kind of love and care that weprovide at the Ladies Series.
So excited to bring some ofthat fun to their tournament.
Hey, shout out for Caddy.

(05:56):
Bingo Right Caddy Bingo.

Speaker 1 (06:00):
No, yeah, it wasn't Caddy Bingo.
Well, it was sort of no, no, no, just that one caddy bingo.

(06:04):
Well, it was sort of no, no.

Speaker 1 (06:05):
No, just that one.
Some of the caddies were likeah, I got to do the scorecard
for my player.

(06:12):
Yeah, oh, that's right, that's right.
So, anyway, now that we areback in full swing, we've been
working hard at putting togethersome quality content for you,
so let's get on with our episodeWithout further ado, jenny.
Well, should we?

Speaker 1 (06:28):
share why we took a year off.
Sure, why not?
I finished my admincertification, so I was in
college and working and playingdisc golf.
That's right.

(06:39):
Jenny is a fully-fledged public school administrator now,
aren't you?
Yes, sir, that's right.
That's very cool.
It's a huge accomplishment.

Speaker 1 (06:49):
And shout out to Chief Leshi that's where I'm
currently working, so shout outto the kiddos over there.

(06:56):
Shout out to Chief Leshi when are they getting a disc golf
course.

Speaker 1 (07:01):
You know, I don't know.

(07:11):
Just putting that out there.
Some good, some good vibes, allright, so without further ado,
let's get into this episode ofintentional disc golf.
That was my critical rolereference.
If you didn't catch that, uh,but anyway.
So this episode, wah, wah.
I know, I know I was lookingfor something Where's.

Speaker 1 (07:27):
Fern, Wah wah.

(07:29):
I know I was looking for something super, super climactic
and maybe some cool theme music, but that just didn't happen.
We need to get.

Speaker 1 (07:36):
Fern to come on and record some sound bites for us.
Oh that would be so cool.
Fern's our four-year-old niece.
She'll be five this year.
Oh, that would be so cool.
Fern's, our four-year-old niece.

(07:45):
She'll be five this year, oh yeah, she's a hoot, she's a hoot
.
Yep, all right, before we gettoo off the rails, love some
Fern.
However, there's one thing thatwe also love, and that's disc
golf.
And when it comes to disc golf,one of the hardest things to
figure out is cracking the code.
And yes, tonight we are talkingabout those lovely little

(08:08):
things that are stamped on allyour discs well, most of your
discs and it seems like somesort of like super secret code
that you need a cipher for.
Uh, and we are going to try tohelp you decode those things.
Yes, we're talking about flightnumbers.
So, flight numbers, you mayknow a little, you may know a
lot, but we're gonna dig realdeep into this and so you can

(08:31):
really understand what thosebabies are talking about so you
may want to star this episodeand listen to it a few times
yeah, this is definitely anotebook and paper.
Maybe rewind it.
Listen to it a few times,because there's a lot of science
and physics that are going togo into this and what we're

(08:51):
about to tell you might blowyour mind.
So our objectives by the end ofthis episode.

Speaker 1 (08:56):
Way to go, professor Saprinsky.
You got it.
Way to go, you got it.
I'm working on it.
Objectives Learning objectiveswe have learning objectives.
That's right by the end of thisepisode, our listeners will be
able to Go ahead.
Oh no, no, that's what youwrite on your whiteboard.

(09:13):
Oh, okay, well, I got my notes here.
So we've been working hard.
We got a new format, we've beenreally streamlining everything.
Everything's research,verifiable and some anecdotal
knowledge is in in there.
But yeah, this is a disc golfmaster class is what we're.
What we're shooting for righthere and tonight is the flight

(09:34):
numbers master class and uh.
So by the end of this episode,you should have a basic
knowledge in the origin and thehistory of how flight numbers
and how they were developed.
Also, develop an understandingof key terms, concepts of disc
flight and flight patterns.
Understand uh disc flight termsin the uh in the excuse me.

(09:57):
Understand uh disc flightpatterns in terms of energy.
So that's a really important Uhkind of a change of wavelength
as far as thinking process goes.
Uh, we're going to also giveyou some useful tools and tips
on how to analyze your discs andwe're going to go ahead and
clarify some of those commonmisconceptions, give you some

(10:18):
tips for building a better bagfor your game, and here's some
practical examples that we usein our games as we uh have
developed uh over the years.
So, jenny, how's that sound to?

Speaker 1 (10:31):
you, I want to say that I have not been researching
and I will be learning, rightalong with all y'all, what are
flight numbers, jenny?

(10:41):
what are they?

Speaker 1 (10:43):
they were randomly selected on a.
Well, I think it's a d 12 now,like a bingo wheel a d12, and so
you just roll the dice andhopefully you get a better roll
than what I do when we'replaying dnd all right.

(11:01):
So when you're selecting a disc, it's pretty much like
rolling the dice.
You never know, like, uh, whatyou're really gonna get into.
And you, you're half you'rehalf right.

Speaker 1 (11:10):
You're on the right track with that I think in a
previous episode we discussedthat I buy discs based on the
way that they look how pretty.

(11:18):
They are not necessarily the way that they function by the
way, somebody did find your, uh,your dirt brown disc.
Uh just laying at the bottom ofthe tree the other day that's,
I couldn't remember what disc Iwas supposed to look for yeah
and.

Speaker 1 (11:33):
But I was just looking through the box and I
couldn't remember it was.

(11:37):
It was that one, and you know uh, just uh jumping ahead in the
episode a little bit quick.
Tip, hot take.
If you're going to buy a disc,buy one that you can find, Just
saying yeah.

Speaker 1 (11:54):
And if you're a disc golf company and you send discs
to stores like 360 Disc Golf,don't send the ones that match
the trees and the ground and theferns.

(12:10):
Yeah, the dead leaf forest green color scheme does not work
very well up here in thePacific Northwest.
It may be grayed out in thedesert somewhere.

Speaker 1 (12:21):
Matt still has a lot of green discs on his clearance
rack and I thought for sure forSt Patrick's Day he'd be like
get a green disc for a dollarwith every disc you buy well,
like neon green is fine, likethat sticks out like a sore
thumb, but no, the forest greenand the not in the spring dead
leaf brown.

(12:40):
And yeah, I know I got you.
I got you.
So why is it important, do youfeel, to understand flight
numbers and gain a deeperunderstanding of flight numbers?

Speaker 1 (12:56):
uh, to help you know the tools that you're using when
you're playing the game.
Is that your final answer?
Well, it's like.
So I'm knitting and I have toknow what size needles I need in
order to match the gauge of theyarn to make the thing I'm

(13:16):
making.
So disc golfing is kind of likethat.

(13:21):
So understanding how your disc is going to fly for the type of
shot you're trying to throw.

Speaker 1 (13:26):
Yeah, like all the times I throw a disc and I get
mad because it goes to the leftinstead of going right, like
it's labeled.

(13:33):
And how come your right hand discs also go left?
They don't, yeah, they do.
They don't All the time.
No, they don't, yeah.
You were yelling at meyesterday.
Why is it going left?
It's supposed to go right?

Speaker 1 (13:43):
well, that's because, no, I all my discs I throw
right-handed.
I'm not talented.
No, you're very talented, butI'm not ambidextrous.

(13:53):
I am glad you brought that up because, for the sake of this
episode in this conversation,everything that we're
referencing is going to be basedoff of a right hand backhand
throw.
So if you're a side armor or aleft hander or a thumber
tomahawker, you're going to haveto make those conversions on
your own.
We will be talking pretty muchjust about right hand backhand

(14:15):
throws.
To establish a frame ofreference here flight numbers.
They're not as random as youmight think and how did they
come to be?
Well, in the beginning peopledidn't really know how or why or
you know how to describe adisc's flight pattern.

(14:36):
Some won't let right, some ofthem went left, some of them
crashed into the ground.
So they use pretty ambiguousterms like these are good for
beginners, these are overstable,these are understable, easy to
control.
Distance driver we've all heardof these kind of like just very
vague terms, uh, but that thatdoesn't really tell you what

(14:59):
they do and you'd have to go outto a field or something
somewhere and throw them a lotto get a really good idea of
what that disc did.
And that's if you were a prettysolid thrower, because, as
we'll discuss later, discs dosomething a little bit different
for every single one of us.
One of the popular brandsProdigy they still do this.

(15:20):
You won't find a lot of flightnumbers on Prodigy, they still
do this is you won't find a lotof flight numbers on prodigy.
It'll be something in theneighborhood of oh, this is a
overstable driver, this is afairway, you know a straight
fairway driver, or is that justmany of that does that?
I believe it's prodigy, I'm notsure.

Speaker 1 (15:38):
Well, I'm thinking of my prodigy discs, and they both
have numbers on them, but someof them don't Like the PX2, it
was just a putt and approach itdidn't have it on there.
It also came out in afirst-time box that we got years
ago.
Like all my.

(15:58):
Prodigy that I have has theflight numbers on it.

(16:04):
I'm not sure which brand it is .
In a lot of the older discsyou'll still see.
This still is that they'll justmake statements about what kind
of flight to expect out of itor what you can expect this disc
to be good for, and it reallydoesn't give you any detail or
anything about what this discdoes.

Speaker 1 (16:24):
And so moving on, Well, and it's different for
each person.

(16:29):
It is a bit different.
It is a bit different.
Yeah, I'm agreeing with you.

Speaker 1 (16:37):
I know, but you disappeared.

(16:39):
I know I did disappear.

Speaker 1 (16:40):
You went into the black hole.

(16:42):
Right right.

Speaker 1 (16:43):
Yep, I'm switching your ducks, switching my ducks.

(16:48):
All right.
So what ended up happening isanova came along.
You know anova, you know thatthat brand love them, hate them,
love to hate them.
You know the biggest disc golfbrand, those guys.
They came along and said, hey,we need to really nail this down
and come up with some sort of asystem to figure out how to

(17:10):
describe these discs, flight,disc flights a little bit better
, so that our consumers knowwhat they're buying, so that you
can make informed decisions.
Well, and ironically, discraft,their competitor, thought the
exact same thing.
So they actually came up withtwo competing flight number
systems and on a lot of theDiscraft stuff you can still see

(17:32):
this is they'll print the fournumber system, which is the
ANOVA system, and they'll have alittle box at the end that has
like a 1.5 in it or like a 2 ora 0.1 or something like that.
That is remnants of the old uhdiscraft system.
Um, I actually got it righthere.
The discraft system originallywent from negative one to plus

(17:56):
1.5 for the discraft system, butby the uh 1990s or so the
Innova system was so popularthat it was pretty universally
accepted among manufacturers.
But it's really important toknow that there is no standard
measurement or type or whateverfor the flight numbers and the

(18:22):
way that they're developed.
It is arbitrary.
In a sense.
However, it's verycollaborative as far as like
this disc with similar flightnumbers will will fly similar to
this disc with the flight withthese flight numbers, but not
exactly the same it it differsfrom manufacturer to

(18:42):
manufacturer and it differs fromplastic to plastic as well, but
there is.
No, there isn't.
Like these guys didn't gettogether around the table and
say, hey, you know this, theconstitute this.
No, it's.
It's pretty much just a compareand contrast and let's get
close enough type of deal so youcan see a lot of different
variability even within the samelike numbers family.

(19:06):
When you're, uh, when you're outthere considering those flight
numbers, uh, at your local discgolf shop, uh, do understand
that those, those flight numbers, are a baseline.
They're kind of a starting offpoint to give you a basic idea
of what you're buying and theway that the disc is supposed to
behave.
Uh, ideally, but it should notbe your be all and all.

(19:31):
So I guess the next questionthat needs to be answered is how
are these flight numbers?
How are they?
Uh, how are they?
How are they assigned?
How do, how do they developthem for the uh, for the discs
themselves?
Do you know I?

Speaker 1 (19:47):
already told you, you're listening on a on a full
moon on a full moon, on atuesday, they all get together
and they each roll a dice, andthat determines the flight
numbers.
Well, you're also.
You're still close.

(20:02):
That's scary.
You, you're still close.
It is scary, it is scary.
That's why your discs always goleft, oh shush.
So when it comes to assigningflight numbers, there's a few
things that the manufacturers dowhen they are figuring out how
to put these numbers on thesystem here.

(20:22):
When figuring out these flightnumbers and how to assign them,
there is a lot of factors thatthe manufacturers take into
consideration when they'reputting these all together, and
part of that is design andprototyping.
So there is like computerprograms and things of that
nature, like a cad or orsomething like that, where

(20:44):
they'll go in and they'll designthe disc and they'll model and
simulate the aerodynamic flow.
There are actually, uh, placesthat have wind tunnels where
they do test the profile of thediscs.
Um, isn't loft?
One of those?
Loft is the company.
That's all sciencey.

Speaker 1 (21:02):
Yeah, yeah, dude that neon.

(21:06):
That's a.
That's such a weird disc.
So weird.
It looks like a dog bowl.
It's like I want to put waterin it for my dog well, it
doubles as a dog bowl like oh,yeah, you know how many people
have seen they use their disc.

Speaker 1 (21:18):
Your dog drink out of my disc?

(21:21):
no, yeah and the great.
The great thing about thistechnology is that you know
designers can go in and they canuh change different aspects of
the disc there in real time andsee how they're going to behave
or the predicted behavior anyway.
Uh, you'd never really knowuntil you get out there and uh

(21:42):
throw them how they're going tobehave for you.
But they can test differentshapes, different weights,
different rim configurations andthen they go out and they
create the mold and they make aprototype.
And a lot of times when theymake these prototypes they go
out and they beta test them.

(22:03):
So the things like the trilogychallenges, the uh didn't
discraft do one for the zonesrecently with the, the banger
top and the groove top, Ithought I have no idea, yeah
it's something like it was theprodigy one that had like the
three little birdies that Ireally wanted to do, but well,
and then there's the, the mvpdoes the, does um the space race

(22:24):
, space race and trilogychallenges and stuff all the
time.
Yep, yeah, so that that's howthey go out and beta test.
So not only do they go out andhave pros throw these things
around and test them and gettheir opinions, but they also
send them out into the generalpublic like those, uh, mystery
boxes we used to get, or thatsubscription, oh yeah, yeah, we

(22:45):
used to have way back when westarted the disc member thing.

Speaker 1 (22:47):
Yeah, yeah, that one.

(22:50):
Yeah, they always sent me discs that I couldn't throw.
Well, at the time it was coolto have.

Speaker 1 (22:55):
That P2 is the one that came in a box like one of
the last boxes we got.

(22:58):
Yeah, that P2 was rad.
I like the P2.

Speaker 1 (23:00):
That prodigy putter we got first.
Like we both threw that oneforever, which, oh yeah, that
one, that was great.
The one with the inappropriatecat.

(23:10):
The inappropriate cat that's right.
No, that was.
Was that a prodigy one, mm-hmm?
Or was that the?
Was that the Eve 7?
Eve 6?

Speaker 1 (23:24):
That's a band Eve 6.
That's a band the Evie.
7.

(23:25):
Evie 7, yeah.

Speaker 1 (23:27):
I thought it was a prodigy.

(23:28):
I don't know, maybe, anyways, I don't know.
So they go out and they betatest these things with
professional players and amateurplayers alike, and also they
use some companies use roboticthrowers, use, um, some
companies use robotic throwers.
They have robotic arms like a,uh, like one of those things

(23:48):
that throws clay pigeons for fora rifle range or something, so
that they can tweak things andmeasure things very precisely as
far as how the disc is going toreact on different speed sets,
different angles, uh, and thedifferent flight characteristics
of those discs.
So that's also a tool that themanufacturers use.
Anywho, are you following me sofar over there, jenny?

Speaker 1 (24:13):
Yes, there are iRobots that in their off time
from throwing clay pigeons theytake a break and they go disc
golf for the companies.

(24:24):
Once the manufacturers have gotten together and gathered all
this data, then they go back tothe lab, so to say, and they
produce.
They, you know, have a meetingor whatever, and they figure out
okay, you know, this is whatthis disc behaves like.
And then they stamp it on thereand there you go, there are
your uh flight numbers.

(24:46):
In a nutshell, so is that?

Speaker 1 (24:48):
so I'm just making a connection.
I was looking at a disk I don'teven remember which one Like
where.
Oh, like the NVs.
You have an NV that's like a3301, and I'm always saying, no,
it's a 3302.
So, like it changes based onthe plastic and probably as they

(25:10):
get more data, because I'veseen a couple other discs where
all of a sudden they've changedit, like the mantra that I got.

(25:18):
the glow mantra is a negative two one instead of a negative
two two, which the original oneswere well, and I'm happy that
you brought that up too becauseactually as the discs go out
into the field and they developand mature and say they've been
out on the market for a year,the manufacturers will actually

(25:38):
go back and monkey with theflight numbers and and change
them.

Speaker 1 (25:42):
Uh, if they get bad customer feedback or good
history whatever feedback theyget for the customers they will
change them so, so really all Ican think of is those discs with
those little bitty babypictures on it how they get
older and older and all of asudden they're like big, macho
discs yeah, it's hilarious.
I haven't seen those well, it'slike the little rudolph one on

(26:03):
the f9.

(26:04):
Oh, the ruddy, that little picture.

Speaker 1 (26:06):
Imagine a picture of a little BB like that and then
it turns into the the big disc.

(26:12):
We're on the big disc now.
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (26:15):
Jeez, that's what you said as they go out there and
they mature out in the world.

(26:20):
Well, yeah, and so you were talking about the Enveys.
I think there's what five orsix different plastics that
they've released the Enveys in,and some of them are 3302, some
of them are, and we have themall.
They're like 32-12.
There's a bunch of different,so it will vary by plastic to
plastic, even if it's the samemold type.

Speaker 1 (26:43):
I've been putting with an Envy for like four years
now and I think I have found areplacement for it.
Oh really, I have to say.

(26:52):
Really, what is that one?
The one that you've been?

Speaker 1 (26:54):
Oh, yeah, that one I just got.

(26:57):
Which one was that as?

Speaker 1 (26:58):
we look at all the discs that are all over the
floor.
We're looking over there.

(27:01):
What is the one you just got it's the erica stench comb which
one is that one?
oh, the, the thought space one.
I'll go get it.
Yeah, go get it.
I want, I want to see it.
And while you're going to getthat, that is one of the
challenges with all of theflight testing here is that the

(27:22):
numbers are very subjective.
So when you have, you know,something along the lines of an
envy, where it's a 3302 from mvp, you can go over to, say, a
similar disc from inova, andit'll actually behave completely
different.
What, what is what is that onethere?
Yeah, it's a thought space,it's a pra Space, it's a Praxis

(27:45):
Aura, a Praxis Aura.
And I must say that the plasticand the stamp are quite lovely.
It's a brick.
It's a brick.
It's very firm.
Isn't that like 177 orsomething like that?
It's a heavy beast.
It's only a 174.
A 174.
That's still pretty heavy for aputter, isn't it?

Speaker 1 (28:07):
Yeah, but it's beastly because of the bear with
horns and a snake.
Wow.

(28:17):
Isn't there like a jackrabbit that has deer horns on it.
They call it the jackalope.

Speaker 1 (28:22):
Yeah, that's a jackalope, isn't?

(28:24):
that the thing.
What's a bear with horns on it,a bearalope.

Speaker 1 (28:28):
I don't know A bearalope?

(28:29):
I don't know, I don't know.
So now that we've gone over theway that these flight numbers
are developed and tested andmanufactured, now we can move
into some of the meat andpotatoes of this here thing.
Um, talk about some key termsand concepts.

(28:50):
Now this is going to get prettyheavy and convoluted, so I'll
try to slow it down and talkabout a lot of these things okay
a bear with antlers is alegendary creature called the
legendary boonville bear.

Speaker 1 (29:05):
It's a Pokemon or the northern California bear.
It is believed to be a crossbetween a California grizzly and
the Colombian black tail deer.
Really, the largest colony ofthese bears is in Anderson
Valley, california.

(29:21):
Wait, they're real, no way.

Speaker 1 (29:29):
They can't be real Well, be well in dnd.

(29:30):
It's also called a ursaloth, ursalia.
Do they have magical powers?

Speaker 1 (29:34):
uh dnd.
I would assume they have tohave magical powers?

(29:37):
no, I mean in real life, but maybe not real life.
I don't know what we're talkingabout anymore.

Speaker 1 (29:42):
Oh, they also call it a beer a beer yeah b-e-e-r
anyway.

(29:47):
Uh, moving on and this is kind of the meat and potatoes you
want to listen close to this.
So we're gonna define some,some common ground here with
some of these terms, somevocabulary, a little bit of
physics lessons here.
So I'll try to go through thisas clearly and as concisely as I
possibly can.
So the first thing I want totalk about is differentiating

(30:11):
between primary, primary slash,independent flight
characteristics.
Now, these are the same thing,primary meaning first,
independent meaning that theyoperate on their own flight
characteristics.
And these flightcharacteristics, they're not
reliant on anything else, exceptfor the initial behavior, which

(30:35):
in which you throw it with.
So this happens regardless ofthe discs, uh, turn and fade
rating, which we'll talk about alittle bit later.
Moving into the secondaryflight characteristics or the
dependent flight characteristics, these ones are reliant on

(30:55):
those primary characteristics.
So you need to use theseprimary characteristics in order
to activate these secondarycharacteristics, and one of the
best ways to describe it is thenext thing is speed.

Speaker 1 (31:14):
Yeah, I think, maybe saying hey.
So on your desk, looking atthose numbers the first one is
called speed, the second one isglide and the next one is turn
and the last one is it's fada,fade.

(31:36):
We're talking about speed.
This is the first number on thefour number system on your disc
.
It signifiesifies speed.
This is what I like to call aprimary flight characteristic,
because this is independent ofall the other characteristics.
Now, speed the way I refer toit and for the purposes of this

(31:57):
discussion it'll make sense isthe forward velocity that you
need to throw the minimumvelocity that you need to throw,
the minimum velocity that youneed to propel the disc forward
in order to engage the turn andthe fade effectively.

Speaker 1 (32:11):
And wouldn't speed be the number that's most?
How do I want to say thisthat's most personally related
to each person, because a ninefor me doesn't fly the same way
as a nine for you.

(32:31):
I would say that speed is probably the most misunderstood
number on the four number system.

Speaker 1 (32:39):
But what I'm trying to say is, if I'm really new to
this and I don't know a lot, ifI focus on the speed of a disc
first and try and figure outwhat speed works best for me,
that that that's a good entrypoint into understanding the

(33:04):
flight dynamics of a disc.

(33:06):
Well, one of the common mistakes you're on.
Yes, you're onto something here.
One of the common mistakes thatpeople make is one they think
that a higher speed goes further, and in theory, yes.
However, if you can only throw250 feet, it's, you know, a, a

(33:28):
12 speed is going to go 250 feet, the same as, say, a five speed
is going to go 250 feet.
It's, it's not really going tomatter, and still, you, until
you start pushing those bigdistances.
What is going to matter, thoughthat we will dive deeper into
later on is that 12 speed at 250feet is going to veer off to

(33:50):
the left, uh, quite sharply,rather than hold its course and
kind of stay towards the middleof the fairway.
So we'll talk about why that isa little bit later on, when we
get into analyzing the differentdiscs.
So, and the other thing is, Iremember when we went into
Matt's like the first time wecall it Matt's, now it's 360

(34:14):
Disc Golf down in BremertonAwesome place.
Can't praise them enough.
They're awesome people in there.
We love them, matt and Nicole,yippee.
But I remember going in therefor the first time and oh yeah,
I'm a big, big, strong guy, I'mgoing to show my prowess and I'm
going to go and buy the biggest, heaviest duty.

(34:34):
I'm going to get an 11, 12speed, because that's my ego
talking more than anything.

Speaker 1 (34:42):
Had Doomsday Discs been there at that time he been
there at that time you wouldhave bought that, I would have
bought that.
Oh yeah, definitely, definitelyjust because it's a 15 speed
pan lid the 15.

(34:52):
Yeah, yeah, just just because you know.
I needed to prove a point whenthe the fact of the matter is is
that my arm speed was notdeveloped enough.
I had no business throwing a 12speed.
I had no business, at thatpoint, even throwing like an
eight speed.
I should have took matt'sadvice and stuck to like a five
or six.

Speaker 1 (35:10):
Honestly, and you never should have thrown the
hades, because it always wentinto way into the cow pasture
ever at bud bell oh yeah, everytime, oh yeah, oh yeah.

(35:24):
No, that was the katana no, that was your hades that was my
hades.
Oh yeah, okay, well, anyway,yeah.
So, um, there, there you go.
Uh, the speed doesn'tnecessarily mean it goes further
, it doesn't necessarily meanthat, uh, it's like a skill

(35:45):
level.
It's definitely the forwardvelocity that you can throw that
at and that's the well.
You got to think of it as theminimum, like you have to meet
this threshold in order for theturn and the fade to start
working for you.
So, moving on to the next one isthe glide.

(36:05):
So the second number in thefour number system and I also
say that this is a primary andindependent flight
characteristic, because theglide kind of does its own thing
on its own and for the sake ofthis conversation, we need to
think of the discs glide as theresistance to it slowing down.

(36:29):
I know we, you know it said,you know how far it, how long
it'll stay in the air, and thathas to do with how much lift the
airfoil generates.
And we can get into all that.
For the sake of thisconversation, let's just say
that it's resistance to slowingdown, and you'll understand why

(36:50):
once we get into analyzing thesediscs and to go a step further
with that, think of that as interms of time.
It's going to take longer toslow down than, say, a disc that
has like a three glide like afirebird.
You look, you look, puzzledover there.

(37:11):
Jenny, is that registering withyou?

Speaker 1 (37:13):
I didn't realize a firebird was a three.

(37:17):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (37:17):
But then again I try to have most of my discs have a
really long glide.

(37:25):
Yeah, yeah, and which, which is a lot of times a desirable, a
desirable trait for people thathave a little bit lower arm
speeds, like beginners andadvanced women even beginner
women glide is very helpful forthat.
Kids are good for having highglide, depending.

Speaker 1 (37:50):
I mean, I've seen Glide doesn't matter if you only
throw rollers.

(37:54):
Hayley yeah, yeah, hayley, hayley is the uh, the roller
queen.
She's got that thing down.
I taught her the other day.
I said, hey, look, you turn thedisc the other way, it'll,
it'll pan out the other way, andthat was like a light bulb
turned on she was like really Ican get this thing that to roll
over the other direction.

(38:15):
I can control which way it goes.

Speaker 1 (38:16):
Make it not go left exactly.

(38:19):
She was stoked about that.
So all right, moving on thenext one, the third number in
the four number system is theturn, and this is where we start
to move into the dependent orthe secondary flight
characteristics.
So in order for the turn tostart working, you have to throw

(38:39):
it at that minimum velocity,minimum forward velocity, like I
was saying.
So if you're throwing a 12speed you have to have a pretty
good arm speed, you know releasespeed, in order for the uh, the
turn to really engage.
That's why throwing things likedestroyers and uh and uh bosses

(39:04):
and the pan lid are sodifficult and so hard to control
is because you really have tohave a fast arm to uh puck that
thing down the fairway, asopposed to like, say, if, as
long as we're talking todestroyer, it's like a 13, five,
negative one, three, well, whatif we went to like a five, five

(39:24):
negative one three or a five,five negative one, two?
That would take a lot lessforward momentum, forward
velocity to get the fade toengage and get that negative one
effect and get it to drift offto the right hand on a right
hand backhand throw.
So it is a secondary flightcharacteristic is dependent upon

(39:48):
how fast that disc is movingand how long it stays above that
threshold.
So the speed is a threshold,the turn is what happens when
you reach that threshold, andthat's why it's a secondary
characteristic.
And then we have the fade.
So the fade is the fourthnumber in the four number system

(40:12):
, and so the fade is thequickness, the, the, the, the
speed at which the disc willreturn to the ground as it loses
momentum.
So you would think thatsomething that has a high fade,
like, say, a zero four, or likesay, let's, let's just make up a

(40:33):
disc here, uh, random imaginarydisc 12 404.
So like a 12 404, that four isnot going to like make a big
hook to the left.
Well, what's going to happen?
More so is that that four atthe end is going to make the
disc crash into the ground verysharply, uh, pretty close to

(40:57):
your midline.
It's not going to have this bighook response.
If you want a big, a big hyzerhook, a big left hand hook, you
want to get like a fade that haslike a two or a two or one fade
, and then you'll have more of ahooky response.
But the lower your fade is also, the more it's going to glide

(41:19):
out.
So you're going to push thatdistance and it is dependent
upon the rate of spin the dischas when it starts to lose
momentum.
So this is why it's a secondarycharacteristic is because it is
dependent upon that spin, andif the disc is spinning really
really fast, the disc is goingto more glide out than crash

(41:43):
into the ground hard.
So that's really important toremember as we get on with the
conversation here.
All right, so the next thing weneed to talk about is momentum.
We're talking about junior highphysics class.
Well, maybe, like early highschool, ninth grade physics, I
learned this in ninth grade butI went to a completely different

(42:04):
school.
I was, I went to school in acompletely different world than
all you city slickers, all youcity slickers.
So anyway, um, so momentum,very simply put, mass times
velocity equals newtons persecond.
So this is expressed in newtonsper, in newton seconds.
So mass times velocity, so theweight of the disc, times how

(42:29):
fast you throw it to.

Speaker 1 (42:32):
To clarify Newton's a little bit more I'm very much
reminded as to why I tookchemistry and not physics.

(42:42):
I know, and I'm a physics, because I'm a nut job when it
comes to physics I can blowstuff up Instead of listening to
all this math.
I can blow stuff up withphysics too.

Speaker 1 (42:53):
Hermingern.

(42:54):
So anyway, um, a newton.
So to get more into what anewton is, newton is the amount
of force needed to propel anobject and, more specifically,
the amount of energy needed toaccelerate one kilogram of mass,
one meter per second squared.
So again, we have to think ofthat velocity in terms of energy

(43:17):
and we have to think of thatmomentum, in terms of energy and
mass, of the disc movingforward at a certain speed.
So that's going to be reallyimportant.
When we talk about thefinishing characteristics of the
disc and we talk aboutdifferent flight patterns such
as like hyzer flips and flexshots, uh, there was a

(43:37):
discussion topic on one of thefacebook groups, which, which is
going to fly further, is ahyzer flip or a flex shot, and
so we'll we'll chat about that alittle later when we get to the
common questions and, uh,different things and such.
The next thing we need to talkabout is revolutions, and I know
that's getting kind of long.

(43:58):
So revolutions, slash, spin,one complete cycle, 360 degrees
of rotation, in this case therim of the disc rotating around
the disc's center of gravity,and that will bring us also to
torque In terms of disc golf, atorque.
Torque is the amount of forcespinning around an axle, uh, of

(44:20):
of any such.
But in disc golf, in disc golfterminology, we refer to torque
as the disc wobbling.
So the fluttering effect uh, Idon't know if you've seen own
Skagen's her putting how it thedisc kind of flutters as it goes
in and that's actually calledoff axis torque.

(44:43):
And so what that is is the discis rotating around two axes.
It's running rotating aroundthe y-axis which is at seven at
center of gravity, and then it'salso rotating slightly around
the y-axis which is its centerof gravity, and then it's also
rotating slightly around thex-axis which is causing that
wobbling effect.
And it is considered a throwingerror and on distance drivers

(45:05):
and mid-ranges and such it doessacrifice distance and accuracy.
The reason that you get thatoff-axis torque most commonly is
because you're not gettingenough spin on your disc to
cause that torque to kind ofstabilize and work itself out.
And so that brings us to torque.
Resistance is the tendency fora disc to correct itself in

(45:29):
flight if it is thrown withx-axis rotation, so if it does
have a wobble to it out of thehand, it's the ability for the
disc to correct itself whileit's traveling down the fairway,
hopefully, and not the roughfor the out-of-bounds area.
Or, jenny, you look amazed.

Speaker 1 (45:53):
I don't know if you guys can tell out there in
listening land, but Brandon isclearly writing the curriculum
for like a double doctorate inphysics and disc golf.

(46:05):
Oh, it'll all come together.
I promise you this It'll allcome together, and all of these
terms will come together andit'll all make sense.
So next thing we need to do iswe need to understand gyroscopic
force.
So gyroscopic force is like abicycle wheel it's something
that's spinning, and the fasterit spins, the more resistant it

(46:27):
is to change is that why myhead's starting to hurt?

Speaker 1 (46:30):
Because all of the spinning and it's resistant to
understanding what you're sayingoh my God.

(46:37):
Yeah, I know there's a lot.
I told you there is a lot, butit's important.

Speaker 1 (46:41):
Folks, there's like 12 more pages in his hands.
I'm not joking.
No, there's only nine morepages and we're on page four.
Nine more, no, no, oh my God.

(46:55):
There's nine pages, total, total, and we're on page four.
Yeah, I know, and we're almostdone with this part.
It's not 12.
The other ones just wait untilwe get to the feedback episode.
That's going to be awesome, Iknow, I know, and that's your
expertise because you're ateacher, you're a professional
coach, so you should, you shouldreally be teaching that one uh
gyroscopic force is the tendencyfor an object to a spinning
object to resist change, andthat that force typically moves

(47:16):
90 degrees or perpendicular tothe uh applied force, so 90
degrees to the axis, like therim of rim of a disc.
And the one of the reallyimportant things Jenny, you
heard me talking about this outin the field the other day is
gyroscopic precession.
Yes, precession, and it's thetendency for the gyroscopic

(47:40):
access to wobble when anotherforce is applied to it in the
form of torque talking about itwhen when we were out playing at
freddy's, or no, we were atyesterday.
No, the day before we were, wewere uh at, uh at nad.
We were at ned park and youwere asking me what I was
working and I said gyroscopicprocession oh under

(48:02):
understanding my gyroscope,because it's okay.

Speaker 1 (48:07):
Okay, you're good well, the disc.

(48:08):
The disc is a gyroscope.
I it in.
Maybe we don't think of it thatway because it's just a disc.
It's not a frisbee.
I almost cussed.
It's not a frisbee, not afrisbee.
Okay, it's a disc.
But oftentimes we think of discslike an airplane wing, which is
not wrong, but it's notentirely correct.

(48:30):
We need to think discs more of,as say, a helicopter blade or a
helicopter rotor.
The blades on a helicopter aredesigned aerodynamically like
airplane wings so that they cangenerate lift rotor as the

(48:58):
turbine turns on the uh, the,the rotor, the, the, uh, the.
The blades will tendency towobble a little bit.
They're not going to gocompletely center and so they
move because both the spin andlift are acting on the blades at
the same time in differentareas, which causes more of like
if you were to draw a line upthrough the center of gravity.

(49:19):
It causes more of like a coneof if you were to draw it out
and trace it and that that discin that blade, that helicopter
blade, is going to wobble just alittle bit.
It doesn't need to be a heck ofa lot.
And those gyroscopic procession.
Now, the reason that that isimportant is because the faster

(49:40):
that something is spinning, themore gyroscopic force it has,
the more stable it becomes.
So light bulb turning on.
As far as disc flights and whythey behave the way they do,
we'll talk.
We'll get into it a little morelater.

Speaker 1 (49:59):
Nope nope, no we'll explain it in detail.
A better explanation is whenyou go to those kids museums and
they always have that bikewheel on handles.

(50:10):
Yeah, that's part of it, that's part of it.
And when you hold the bikewheel on the, yeah, that's part
of it, that's part of it.
And when you hold the bikewheel on the handle, it does
kind of do that, doesn't it?
It kind of wobbles back andforth.

Speaker 1 (50:22):
You can make it do that and then you can actually
feel those forces and it's kindof cool.

(50:28):
Yeah, like the Children's Museum, yeah.
Or like, if you have ever bentone of your bike tires on your
bike, you can feel the bikewobble back and forth, but it
seems to go away the faster yougo because it starts to
stabilize out.

Speaker 1 (50:43):
Don't tell the kids that.

(50:44):
Don't tell them they have helmets, they'll be fine.

Speaker 1 (50:47):
Only one of them has a helmet.

(50:48):
Well, that's the one that should have a helmet.
It's body armor.
We need to dumb down a coupleof the kids real quick.
They're getting too smart.

Speaker 1 (51:03):
Maybe a couple head injuries would do them good.
You should really be havingthis conversation with James
about this topic because he'dprobably be a better candidate
for this discussion than I am.

(51:14):
He'd be looking at me like yeah, so.

Speaker 1 (51:17):
Yeah, but did you know?

(51:18):
this yeah, so.

Speaker 1 (51:21):
Hey do you know what happens when a tree poops?
What, jenny, it makes numbertwo pencils.
Thanks, vern.

(51:31):
I know, don't I have a sound effect for that Like here, here
we'll do the uh, here we go,there we go, rim shot.

Speaker 1 (51:40):
Does it?

(51:40):
tell you on there, yeah, it's going to rip here.
I got this one too.
I told you, I know it's thefriend one.
I told you, off the rails, Iknow it's the Fern one.
I told you, off the rails yetagain.
All right, and you said youdidn't like sound effects.

(52:07):
So, real quickly.
We're almost to the end of this.
Bear with me.
Aerodynamics, how an objecttravels through the air.
I'm not going to get into anymore of that.
And then we have to talk aboutlift and how lift is created,
and it has to do with pressure.
So, as air travels over anairfoil, lift is creative,

(52:33):
created, not creative, um.
And what it is is it creates ahigher pressure zone on the
bottom side of the wing and alower pressure zone on the top
side of the wing.
So the pressure, the airpressure, is actually pushing
the plane or the disc up in theair.
It's pushing it up.

(52:54):
It's not like floating or it'skind of hard to explain, but you
got to think of it as a like,as if I was, you know, taking a
book and pushing it towards theceiling or something of that
nature.
It's a that, that kind ofaction.
And then we have to talk aboutthe center of lift is lift acts

(53:16):
on the disc, all over thesurface of the disc.
The center of lift is where themost lift on average is
concentrated on this point onthe disc.
So the point on an airfoilwhere the lifting force is the
most concentrated is what I havewritten down here.
And then we get into the olddisc stability.

(53:38):
So understable on a right hand,backhand turn, that is, the
disc's tendency to fly to theright when thrown.
And some characteristics of anunderstable disc are a smaller
rim shall shallower flight plateand a lower parting line on the
mold.
So that's the midline on themold, whether it's lower or

(54:00):
higher on the disc.
On an understable disc it'stypically lower than the midway
mark.
And then we have to talk aboutwhat causes that disc to flip
over.
So what causes a disc to flipover, especially on an
understable disc, isscientifically it's the position

(54:24):
of the center of lift to thecenter of gravity.
So when the position of centerof lift is further away from the
center of gravity, so outtowards the edge of the disc,
there's more lift on the edge ofthe disc than there is uh,
keeping it stable in thegyroscope.
So that causes the disc to turnall the way over and tail off
to the right, and that's whereyou get your rollers.

(54:47):
And the further the way, uh,the further they are from each
other the center of lift and thecenter of gravity.
So the further they are fromeach other, the center of lift
and the center of gravity.
So the further towards the edgethe center of lift is, is the
more understable the disc is andthe more tendency it'll have to
flip over.
So just going over that a fewtimes in a few different ways,

(55:20):
and so also it is a byproduct ofwhen you're throwing velocity
is too high in relation to thespin of the disc, so the disc
will become more understable,which may cause the disc to turn
over.
So I'll say that again is thatif you're throwing the disc too
hard and you don't have enoughspin on it to keep it stable,
that is what is causing yourdisc to flip over.
So if you're having problemswith your disc flipping over,

(55:42):
you need to figure out how tonot throw as hard or get more
spin on your disc.
Now let's talk about overstabledisc.
Now let's talk about overstable.
Overstable is the disc'stendency to hold the line when
it's thrown.
The lift pressure generated onthe flight plate is distributed
more evenly, so it causes thedisc to be more resistant to

(56:05):
turning to either direction inflight.
So, like I said, the abilityfor that disc to hold a line
we're not talking about when itstarts to slow down.
That's a completely separatething.
We're talking about in themiddle of its flight, when it's
in its uh, in its cruising kindof zone.
One reason for this is becausethe parting line, uh, because of

(56:27):
the parting line, more air isforced underneath the disc,
causing it to redist, uh, resistturning.
So it's going to have more kindof lifting pressure underneath
the disc in order for it to staynice and stable up in the air
and stay very nice and smooth.

(56:48):
Now the disadvantage oradvantage to this, depending on
how you look at it, these discswill return to the ground more
quickly as they lose momentum,causing them to travel further
left towards the end of theirflight.
So, overstable you often see itgo in the turn.
You have zero, negative,negative, negative, negative,

(57:12):
and then in the fade you havepositive pot as a positive pot
or zero, right.
So what you see in anoverstable disc is you have a
zero in the turn and then in thefade category you have like a
three or a four or maybe even atwo, and these discs have a
tendency to return to the groundmore quickly.
And these discs have a tendencyto return to the ground more
quickly.

(57:32):
However, what makes them morestable is they have a tendency
to maintain their spin a lotbetter, so they will keep
spinning a lot easier, say, anunderstable disc.
So an understable disc needs alot of spin to keep it nice and

(57:53):
stable, nice and straight and dowhat it's supposed to do.
A overstable disc does not needas much more spin and that's
why they're considered to bemore controllable and more
desirable is because they'reactually a lot more forgiving
than the understable stuff.
Believe it or not, you needsome pretty good technique to
throw understable.
Now the reason that understable is great for beginners is

(58:14):
because beginners don't havereally great technique, so they
the disc gets released at oddangles.
A lot of people have a naturalhyzer release.
So where the blade is tippeddown, we'll talk about that a
little bit more.
But where the blade is tippeddown and the velocity on the
disc with the lack of spin willcause that disc to flip and come

(58:38):
to a flat plane, kind ofnegating some of that technique
deficiencies there.
So some of the characteristicsof an overstable disc are a
higher parting line, so abovethe center of the disc, uh, and
often have a thicker rim profileand, uh, they.

(58:59):
One of the othercharacteristics of their flight
pattern is they're also moretorque resistant.
So remember we talk about that,that torque resistance or the
wobble in midair.
An overstable disc is going tobe able to correct itself a lot
easier than, say, an understabledisc.
An understable disc willflutter and do all sorts of
things and you'll lose distanceand accuracy.

(59:20):
And another thing to note hereis the type of plastic matters
when it comes to understable andoverstable.
Harder plastics have a tendencyto be more overstable and to to
hold those lines a lot better.
But softer plastics have atendency to be more understable.

(59:41):
So, for example, anova's g staras as compared to, like, say, a
dx or a baseline plastic.
However, the disability willchange as those plastics and
polymers start to break down andbecome softer.
And the softer they become, themore understable they will

(01:00:01):
become.
And then we go to the last thingis the stable disc, uh,
something along the lines of,say, an innova, mako or a
discraft buzz and what that isis that the center of the lift
pressure is distributed evenlyacross the flight plate and also
the center of gravity, so thatit rotates nice and easy and

(01:00:23):
stable and it'll hold a line andthe angle that is released on,
even during the final phases ofits flight, and no disc.
It's important to note that nodisc is ever going to be a
completely neutral, stableflight pattern.
They were always kind of go offto the right, always kind of go
off to the left.
There's no such thing as acompletely straight shot, as

(01:00:47):
much as we would like to thinkso there, there just isn't.
And then, last but not least,in our key terms and concepts,
we need to talk about the heiserand anheuser angles.
I like to refer to this as theheiser angle is when the, when
you're holding your disc in yourready position, when you turn

(01:01:10):
the furthest edge away from yourbody, when you angle that down
towards the ground or turn thestamp away from you so you can't
see it.

Speaker 1 (01:01:19):
That is a hyzer the only way I remember is that
annie is like a girl, so it'sfacing towards me because I'm a
girl.
That's the only way I rememberwell and there you go and
anhyzer anhyzer is is the otherway.

(01:01:32):
I remember Well and there you go, and Anheuser is the other
way.
So the furthest edge of thedisc away from your body is
tilted upwards towards the skyso you can read the stamp.
And that's the differentrelease angles.
And of course there's neutralangle, which is just flat.
But hey, what fun is that?

(01:01:53):
Right, hard and flat, hard andflat.
Who's that gal?
We played with her a bunch lastyear.
She was funny.
I can't remember Hard and flat.
If you're out there listeningto this, you know who you are
Hard and flat.
And then she'd cuss at us andget mad.

(01:02:14):
She's so awesome.
I know she's so funny, so funny.
So, moving on, here we're goingto get into analyzing a couple
of these popular discs.
So here what I have, whatwhat's that interesting choice?

Speaker 1 (01:02:32):
why, innova discraft mvp and then two latitude discs
yep, I did that on purposebrave's not that popular no, but
it's a.

(01:02:47):
It's a good one to compare to you should use the peril what
the peril I'm not using thepearl.
I'm not gonna use the pearl.
Oh my gosh, so the black?

Speaker 1 (01:03:03):
Now, mine was white.

(01:03:10):
What are you doing?

Speaker 1 (01:03:11):
I don't know, I can't read it.

(01:03:13):
Oh.

Speaker 1 (01:03:19):
It's not facing me.
Is that your lucky cricket?
That's my crickets.

(01:03:22):
Your lucky cricket.
Shame on you, shame on your cow.

Speaker 1 (01:03:24):
Man, there were so many crickets at Rhododendron
that last time we played.
Oh, that's cool.

(01:03:31):
Oh yeah, I remember that that was wild.
The new course over at FortSteilacoom it's hefty, it's not
for the faint of heart and it'sposition golf, so it's
definitely not something thatwe're used to because we play a
lot of woods golf and so and youwould think that that

(01:03:52):
translates well.

Speaker 1 (01:03:53):
It doesn't.
It doesn't.

(01:03:55):
It doesn't.
It doesn't.
I think what it is is.
You get out there, you get allexcited and you lose all control
because you just want to bombstuff down the fairway.

Speaker 1 (01:04:05):
No, it's.
I think that it should be ableto go right there and miss the
freaking ob road that's in themiddle and it lands on the road
or slides to the road.
Yeah stupid.

(01:04:16):
The wind picks it up and throws it on.
Yeah, don't you stop it?

Speaker 1 (01:04:26):
oh my god you showed me what the buttons do.
What was that one?
It was a chimes oh I love thatone.

(01:04:32):
Yeah, there's here, I got.
I got more too.
Oh, I can do these here.
Like don't I can.
I don't like that I can beepout cuss words, so anyway okay,
focus.

Speaker 1 (01:04:46):
We're only on page two.

(01:04:47):
I know I don't know this is page six.
It's page six, so I'll try toget through this real quick.
Yeah, we always say that, soI'm going to try to convey to
you a visual, uh visual method,uh, verbally, on how to map out
your discs on a piece of paperso that you can really

(01:05:10):
understand their flight patterns.
I call this the speedometermethod.
So what you're going to do isyou're going to do like a half
moon circle, just like thespeedometer on your car and just
like the speedometer on yourcar.

Speaker 1 (01:05:25):
Hey, if you do not have an old-fashioned
speedometer and you have anautomatic thing, it is a half
moon, it is 180 degrees, a halfcircle Of a circle.

(01:05:35):
Like make a ball, draw a line through the middle of it, yep,
so that it's cut in half Yep,yep, yep, and then you put a dot
in the middle of it.

Speaker 1 (01:05:44):
It's like if you take a tortilla and fold it in half.

(01:05:47):
Yes, half a tortilla.
Half a tortilla, one halftortilla, that's correct.
And the disc I'm going to beanalyzing for this right here is
the Innova Destroyer.
It's a 12-5-1-3.
So on this half circle, on theleft-hand side of it, where the
zero would be on my speedometer,I'm going to put a one, and

(01:06:11):
where the 100 mile per hour onmy speedometer would be, I'm
going to put a 15.
Because that's the highest thatI've seen a disc speed go is
the 15 pan lid from DoomsdayDiscs, which I'm not going to
throw that ever, just because Idon't want to.
So and then up towards the highcenter, the middle of the

(01:06:36):
circle, I'm going to put aneight, because eight is halfway
between one and fifteen.
So there would be seven slotson either side of it.
So eight is the halfway point,directly above the dot on the
top of the circle.
So as I travel around the arcof the circle, I go up around, I
start at one, I go up aroundeight and I move around and I

(01:06:58):
kind of guesstimate where 12might be on this.
So I put a little dash mark onmy circle and I put 12.
Probably it's halfway betweenthe 8 and the 15.
And I take that dash mark and Iextend it all the way down to
the dot in the center of myspeedometer.
So, just like the needle on thespeedometer of your car, I

(01:07:22):
should have a 12.
I should have a 12.
It's kind of jetting off to theright at maybe I don't know a
130 degree angle or so betweenthe 8 and the 15 along the arc,
and so now we're starting to puttogether a nice visual
representation of this.

(01:07:44):
So, on the little pie slice, sobetween the 12 and the 15, I'm
going to put my uh turn number,which is negative one, on a
destroyer.
So that zone is my turn zone.
Now, between the 12 and the one, going back to the left hand
side of of the needle, I'm goingto put 3 because that's my fade

(01:08:07):
zone.
So remember when I said let'sthink about this in terms of
time.
So, as we're looking at ourspeedometer, I have to throw
this disc, this destroyer, at a12 speed, which is pretty high
up there, and it's going to hangout at that 12 or above and

(01:08:28):
hang out in that negative onezone.
But then why does my destroyerhook left so hard?
Why does it go left, left, leftand left?
Well, because the piece of thepie that is in the fade zone.
So below the 12 is much, muchlarger than the piece of the pie
that is in the uh turn zone.

(01:08:50):
Well, we'll take these notesand pictures and post them on
our uh social media um as well,so that you guys can see them
and what exactly that we'retalking about.
So this is a destroyer.
So this is your turn on theright hand side, between 12 and

(01:09:10):
15, and this is your fade on theleft hand side, between 1 and
12.
So that's what a destroyerwould look like.
And then your glide is your,its resistance to slowing down.
So something with a higherglide is going to hang out in
the turn zone a little bitlonger than, say, a one-to-one

(01:09:33):
ratio here.
But the reason being that adestroyer is going to hook off
to the left really, really hardis because, well, it's slowing
down for a long, long time andyou're underneath the threshold
for a long, long time, andyou're not.
You're underneath the thresholdfor a long, long time.
Now let's take another populardisc and we're going to draw the
same one.

(01:09:53):
Let's, let's go down to a brave, which is similar to a
destroyer but a much lower speed.
So I'm going to go to alatitude 64, brave, and I'm
going to draw the samespeedometer configuration.
So the half circle with the dotin the middle, one on one side,

(01:10:15):
15 on the other, eight at thetop of the arc, all right, and
then my dot in the middle, or aplace to connect my needle, and
so a brave um, from latitude 64is a seven, six, negative one,
two.
So a seven, six, negative, one,two.
So I'm going to go up here andI'm going to find my seven,

(01:10:37):
which is just to the left ofeight, and it doesn't have to be
exact, it just somewhere in theneighborhood.
I'm going to put a seven aboutuh.
Above it, I'm going to extendthat little dash mark all the
way down to my center dot sothat I know uh, I have the half
circle divided into two sides,right and so now what I'm going

(01:10:58):
to do is on the right hand side.
There I'm going to do the samething.
I'm going to put my uh turn onthe right hand side, which is a
negative one, and I'm going toput my fade on the left hand
side, which is a negative one,and I'm going to put my fade on
the left hand side, which is atwo.
Now you can get this picturealready, if you're imagining in
this in your head or if you'relooking at it on a sheet of
paper and actually drawing itout that your brave is not going

(01:11:20):
to go as far left as yourdestroyer, and the reason why is
because it's going to spendmuch, much, much more time than
the destroyer in your uh turnzone, which is the negative one.
So it's going to, it's going tobe traveling to the right a lot

(01:11:42):
longer than it is traveling tothe left.
So you'll be not you'll beyou'll be happy to see this
thing take off and land moretowards the center of the
fairway and have more controlover it, because you don't have
to have quite as much arm speedto engage that secondary flight
characteristic.
So is I I hope this is makingsense now the primary and

(01:12:03):
secondary characteristics.
Because once you reach that onthe brave, once you reach that
seven threshold, the disc startstraveling to the right and it
can hold that seven, dependingon your arm speed, for a longer
time than it can hold on thedestroyer.
It can hold that 12 for a muchshorter time than on the brave.

(01:12:24):
So next you were saying let's dothe diamond.
So let's talk about anunderstable disc.
Let's talk about thatunderstable disc.
So I'm gonna do a diamond andit's the same, drawing over and
over.
So the speedometer, big circle,dot 115.
Now, this is, this is a goodone, so.

(01:12:44):
And then eight at the topcenter of the arc.
So this is a good one.
The diamond is an eight, six, uh, negative three one.
This is a very popular discamongst, uh, female players, um,
and also amateurs and youngplayers, because it's a very
forgiving disc, easy to use andit gets that much desired hyzer

(01:13:05):
flip very easily.
So this one's right up themiddle.
I'm going to go to my eight andI'm going to draw that line
straight down so that mycircle's pretty much divided in
half, although it is divided inhalf, and on the right-hand side
of that circle, right half ofthat circle, I'm going to put
that negative three and then onthe left-hand I'm going to put
the one.
So the negative three side ismy turn and the negative or in

(01:13:29):
the in the positive one side isgoing to be my fade.
So for the diamond, I'm going tothrow this disc at a minimum
threshold of eight.
So a forward velocity of eightand, like I said, these numbers
are a bit arbitrary.
They're kind of comparative.
So an eight speed and one brandis going to be close to an

(01:13:54):
eight speed and another brand,but not necessarily dead on,
because they're not standardized.
And so I'm going to throw thisdisc at a speed, forward
velocity of eight.
It's going to engage thesecondary flight characteristic
and start traveling to the rightat a factor of three.
So it's going to be turning,turning to the right at a factor

(01:14:17):
of three, and then, when itstarts to slow down and come
back to the ground, it's goingto slow down past that eight
threshold and then it's wheneverit's beneath that eight
threshold, it's going to betraveling to the left by a
factor of one.
So if you throw this thingcorrectly, you're never going to
see it return back to thecenter line.
However, it's very desirablefor, let's say, a hyzer flip,

(01:14:42):
and we'll talk about how thatworks in a little bit.
Now, if you're reallyunderstanding this and you're
really following this, you say,okay, well, I'm doing the math
on this, I'm drawing all of mythings and I'm getting down to
my putters.
So let's get down to this envyreal quick and then we'll move
on.
So putters, why do they fly sostraight?

(01:15:03):
Well, this is why we're goingto draw the same setup.
So eight near the top of thearc, 15 on the right side, one
on the on the left side, and youhave that uh half circle,
semi-circle, and so we're goingto go to an envy which is a 3302
, depending the plastic thatyou're uh throwing.
I'm going to make a little markjust above the one at three and

(01:15:27):
I'm going to extend that markall the way down to the center
of my circle, to the little dotin the center, so that it's a
speedometer.
Okay, and if I'm following this,it's a three.
Three oh two.
So all of that area, all ofthat area on to the right of the
three mark, is going to be myturn zone.

(01:15:47):
So when I release that disc ata speed of three, a forward
velocity of three, it's going tohave zero turn, which means
it's going to hold that line.
Whatever angle, whatever linethat I put it on, it's going to
hold that line.
So if I release it on a littlebit of an angle, it's going to
hold that angle and it's goingto hold that line.

(01:16:07):
It's going to hold that line.
It's going to hold that lineuntil it drops below the three
speed threshold and then it'sgoing to come back and it's
going to return to the ground bya factor of two.
Now, it's not exact factors asfar as mathematical sense, but I
hope I'm conveying a clearpicture.

(01:16:30):
So why don't we drive withputters?
Well, a lot of people do andputter and a lot of times when
you have a advanced playerteaching a novice player,
they'll say learn how to throwputters.
Throw putters because lowerspeeds require less effort, less
velocity to engage thosesecondary flight characteristics

(01:16:51):
.
They spend less time in theslow down zone or the zone to
the left or the fade zone, allthe same thing.
They spend less time returningto the ground than they do
gliding, and so they'll be ableto hold that line and being able
to stay on on the fairway a lotbetter.
Well, why don't we drive withputters?

(01:17:13):
Why can't a putter go 500 feet?
Well, I bet if you throw ithard enough, a putter could go
500 feet.
However, the reason that theydon't is well, first, humans
have only have so much power and, of all, what you have is you
have, uh, air resistance buildup in front of the nose of the

(01:17:33):
disc.
So if you look at a driverwhere the rim of the disc is
very thin and very slender.
It's mating through cutting,made for cutting through the air
and and having that aerodynamicflight, as where a putter is
built more for stability andflying, flying nice and flat and
nice and stable.
The trade-off to that is isthat the putter has a big, thick

(01:17:55):
like wall for a rim and so theair pressure, air resistance
will build up in front of thedisc until it finally loses
enough momentum where it'llactually stop it and send it
down to the ground.
And that's why putters willcrash out a lot of times and
stay very low to the ground isbecause of that air resistance.

(01:18:18):
Now let's touch real quickly onsome similar discs from
different brands.
So I have here in my notes Ihave a hex which is uh, I
believe it's the same as a buzz.
It's a five, five negative one,one.
Five, four negative one, one.
Um, so I know a buzz is a five,four negative, one one.

(01:18:39):
I know that a hex is five, fivenegative, four, one right, and
then you have have a river whichis seven, seven, negative, one,
one yeah, uh, hex is a negativeone, not a negative four no, I
said negative one one, yeah, sohex is negative one one, buzz is

(01:19:01):
negative one one, a river is anegative one one and a Mako is
zero, zero, but they're bothbetween like the five and seven
speed family, so kind of yourmid range fairway driver, uh
type of type of discs.
These discs will behave very,very differently, even though

(01:19:21):
they are in the same numbersfamily.
They all throw and they behavevery, very differently.
So, like say, a Mako is veryflippy and we'll flip up and
flip over when you, when youthrow it, as where a river still
will have a little bit of afinish to the left on it, a
little bit of fade at the end ofit.
So, uh, even similar numberfamilies across brands will vary

(01:19:45):
greatly.
And so it really matters foryou to go out and test different
discs, test, test differentbland brands, uh, different
plastics, even within the samenumber of families, because all
those discs are going to behavedifferently uh, depending on who
you are, how hard you throw,how much spin you get on the

(01:20:07):
disc.
There's so many factorsinvolved.
What really matters is whatworks for you.
Moving on here, now we're in.
We're into the common questionsclarifications, misconceptions,
questions and misconceptions.
So we already talked about thisa bunch.
Flight numbers will varybetween manufacturers.

(01:20:27):
They will also vary betweendifferent plastics.
The softer the plastic is, themore understable the disc is
going to become, so the moretendency it's going to have to
move over to the right on aright-hand back-hand throw,

(01:20:48):
right on a right hand backhandthrow and the reason for that is
, again, is the center of liftis more concentrated on one spot
rather than spread it out overthe dome of the disc, causing it
to turn over and flip over.
A base plastic is going toperform different than, say,
like a champion plastic or ag-star plastic or, if you're a
latitude person, a gold plasticor, let's say, an opto plastic.

(01:21:09):
All of those are going to havevery, very different, uh flight
characteristics.
Now let's talk about weight.
This is where the Newtons andthe velocity and the force are
going to come in.
So your discs are usuallyweighed in grams and it doesn't
make a whole lot of difference,uh, in in like slots of five

(01:21:31):
grams.
But there is a big differencebetween, like, say, a one 50
gram driver to a one 75 gramdriver, and consider this.
So if your arm is able toproduce X amount of force.
Right, you're able to throw atX amount of speed.

(01:21:52):
My momentum is going to be thesame, but my mass, my mass and
my velocity are going to changea little bit, because my

(01:22:12):
velocity is going to go up, mymass is going to go down, but my
momentum is going to stay thesame.
Now this is not going to workvery well for putting spin on
the disc and disabilitystability.
The disc may fly a littlefurther because it's got more
velocity, but it's going tobecome less stable because it's
not going to have enough spin tocompensate for that velocity.
So you either got to have a tonof spin on your disc if you're

(01:22:35):
going to use a lightweight disc,or you're going to have to go
to a heavier disc.
Vice versa, if you throw aheavier disc, your arm speed is
going to go down, but the massis going to go up.
So you're carrying the sameamount of momentum, you're just
not throwing it forward with thesame amount of velocity.
So it's not going to moveforward as fast as, say, a

(01:22:56):
lightweight disc.
This is helpful because youdon't have to have as much spin
on the disc.
The heavier the disc is becauseyour velocity is going to change
.
Now ultimately something withmore mass.
So a heavier disc is going tobe better for cutting through
the wind, resisting changes inflight path, because the more
mass something has, the bettergyroscopic stability it has.

(01:23:21):
And so that's kind of theincentive and the trade-off to
going to something like aheavier disc as you advance you
might lose a little distance,but you're going to have a lot
more control and a lot morestability because of the
gyroscopic stability we saidwe'd talk about this later.
So what is a hyzer flip and howdoes it work?

(01:23:43):
Jenny, you know what a hyzerflip is?
Nope, yeah, you do.

Speaker 1 (01:23:52):
Nope, nope, you do it all the time.

(01:23:53):
Nope, I do a hyzer bomb, hyzer bomb, hyzer bomb, everything,
hyzer bomb.
So anyway, a hyzer flip is whenyou put an understable disc or
something that's understable foryou I shouldn't necessarily say
an understable disc, but Ishould say something that's
understable for you depending onyour arm speed and you put it

(01:24:15):
at a slight haizer angle andthat forward velocity allows
that disc to flip up.
And the idea is is that youwant the disc to come up to flat
, to plane, or even a little bitof anhyzer, and the reason that
that happens is because thecenter of lift and the center of
gravity actually slide and movekind of across the disc,

(01:24:37):
depending on the release angleand the spin, and when those two
forces equal each other out,that is when the disc flips up
to flat and flips up to even alittle bit of anhyzer, and
that's why you throw it.
That's why you throw it on thatangle is because it will allow
for that shift to happen andthat shift just so happens to be

(01:24:58):
where the disc is flat or even,ideally, just slightly anhyzer,
so that it'll have a little bitof finish on it.
That's the physics betweenbehind a hyzer flip, and the
question we asked earlier iswhat goes further, a hyzer flip
or a flex line.
So flex line is the nice scurve, the long floaty s curve,

(01:25:21):
and I know it looks pretty.
But a hyzer flip is actuallymuch, much more uh distance, uh
efficient.
And the reason being is is that, remember, we're talking about
that momentum, that mass times,acceleration, and the shortest
difference distance between uhone place to another is a
straight line, unless you'retalking about wormholes.

(01:25:43):
But discs don't teleport, um,at least not so much that I know
of.
I mean, I have found my discsin weird places unexpectedly.
I mean, it happens.
But the reason a hyzer flip isuh so much further is because,
one, it travels in that straightline from one place and another

(01:26:03):
and you're throwing it at thesame momentum than, say, that,
say you would be throwing thatuh flex line disc.
So the flex line disc, flexline is a little bit floaty and
it's a little more pretty and itgets that nice little s curve
and everybody cheers.
But a hyzer flip is actuallymuch, much straighter, much,
much faster and will'll go much,much further because it's more

(01:26:26):
momentum efficient.
Question is uh, how should Iselect this for beginners?
The thing that I wouldrecommend for beginners is, if
you're a beginner just startingout in a sport, get with a local
club or one of your localorganizations or with your buddy

(01:26:46):
Cause if your buddy disc golfshe probably has about a zillion
discs that you can try and goout to a field and have somebody
that's experienced a little bitexperienced.
Uh, if you're seriously goingto get into the sport, have them
kind of look at and understandyour natural throwing

(01:27:08):
characteristics and then theycan suggest this for you.
The idea that understable isfor beginners, overstable is for
advanced players.
I've seen a lot of players withnatural anhyzer releases that
can throw overstable stuff very,very accurately and, granted,
it's all flex lines and it'spoor technique, but it works for

(01:27:30):
them and that's how they've,that's how they play.
It really just depends on yourthrowing technique and throwing
style and I wouldn't say thatone category of discs is
strictly for beginners andanother category of discs is
strictly for uh, advanced ormore professionals.
It all has to do with yournatural growing characteristics

(01:27:54):
and also we talked a little bitearlier why, uh, advanced and
professional players tend togravitate towards the overstable
discs.
Uh, the overstable discs.
They're a lot easier to control,they're a lot more reliable as
far as what they're going to doand their characteristics, their
flight patterns are morepredictable.
And that's a big reason whyprofessionals play with a lot of

(01:28:18):
overstable discs is because youcan predict the flight pattern.
And if you can predict theflight pattern, you can copy it,
you can, you can duplicate it,and golf is a game all about
consistency and about being ableto duplicate things over and
over and over again.
Like I said, understable discsare a little more touchy because
you have to have a lot of spinand it just kind of has to be

(01:28:39):
just right, as where overstablediscs, you can kind of huck them
and no matter what, they'regoing to kind of do the same
thing.
Relatively higher speed ratingsdo not mean, nor more distance,
and it also does not mean ahigher skill level.
Jenny, over here, she can throwher mid ranges just as far as

(01:28:59):
she can throw her drivers, whichis about 250 260.
So the only reason that youreally switch between the two is
to get, uh, desired shot shapes.

Speaker 1 (01:29:10):
No, I choose to use my drivers because of the
distance and the way I know thatthey fly, and just that's my
comfortability.
Comfortability because if allI'm going to do is throw mid

(01:29:31):
ranges like well, I know.

(01:29:33):
I know the drivers are fun to throw, so well, I cut down my
mid ranges too.
Yeah, you did, and I kind ofdon't need them, because if I
just throw the putters, hmm well, I mean, if you look at, if you
look at a pro's bag, I mean,weren't we looking at Kristen
Tatar's bag before Idlewild orsomething like that?

(01:29:55):
No, yeah, we were.
We were looking at what she hadin the bag and she had like 28
discs.
Remember you were looking atthat and you were telling me
what she had.

Speaker 1 (01:30:04):
Nope, sorry, you're thinking someone else.

(01:30:06):
No.

Speaker 1 (01:30:07):
I'm not.
So it was like when we wereplaying Gaffneys last weekend
and I would throw my F9 and thenI would throw my PX3 and I
would have a better result withthe PX3 than the F9.
Why is that?
Because it was a better choice.

(01:30:30):
But as far as flight numbers and time and the breakdown goes,
why did the PX?
It's a PX five, isn't it?
I don't think so.
I don't know.
It's a PX, something I stilldon't know what the numbers are.

Speaker 1 (01:30:43):
Why?

(01:30:43):
would your?
Why would your quote unquoteputter disc fly straighter than
your F9, which is a fairwaydrive.

Speaker 1 (01:30:51):
Because of all that stuff you talked about for the
last seven days.
You're right.

(01:30:59):
You're right, because it'll stay at that negative 1-0 for a
longer period of time.

Speaker 1 (01:31:05):
It's not a negative 1-0, though.

(01:31:07):
Yeah, it's a negative 1.
No, it's not.
Yeah, it's not a negative one,zero though.

Speaker 1 (01:31:09):
It's like a yeah, it's a negative one.

(01:31:10):
It's like a negative.
Yeah, it's like a negative one.
Zero.

Speaker 1 (01:31:11):
No, it's not.

(01:31:13):
It's like a negative two, okay , negative two, zero.
But it'll stay on that righthand turn.
It'll stay drifting rightlonger than it will be coming
back to the middle.
So it's a pretty straight discbecause you have a natural hyzer
release and it'll flip up foryou and fly nice and straight

(01:31:35):
because the you're right, thecenter of lift will equal out
with the center of gravity.
It'll flip up and once itreaches equal Librium it'll fly
flat and it'll go like thatforever.
And then when it finally doesslow down and come back to the
ground, well, it's only in thatzone for I don't know, two,

(01:32:00):
three seconds.
So it's not going to come allthe way back to center.
It's probably going to staymaybe a foot or two left of your
line.
The last thing I wanted to coverhere is in the questions and
misconceptions and things is howcan we understand how our disc
is going to behave in the wind?

(01:32:22):
And the example I like to giveis when an aircraft carrier is
launching planes off of the topof its deck an aircraft, one of
the big boats you know that wehave here in town.

(01:32:47):
When an aircraft carrier islaunching planes off of its deck
, it always turns into the windso that the planes are facing a
headwind and the reason for thatis is because it increases
their relative airspeed.
When we're dealing with wind,you have to think of the disc as
how fast it's moving againstthe air instead of how fast it's
moving against the ground.
Because if the air is coming atyou and blowing in your face,

(01:33:07):
the air is going to be moving awhole lot faster than, say, on a
calm day when you're justthrowing across the ground.
Basically, and likewise, if youthe wind is at your back, the
disc is going to be movingrelative to the air a whole lot
slower.
Because if I'm, if I'm throwing50 miles an hour into the

(01:33:31):
tailwind, and the tailwind is is, uh, 30 miles an hour, I'm only
throwing 20 miles an hour, uhrelative airspeed, so that
that's going to be my, myforward velocity as far as the
disc is concerned, to the wind.
So there's there's relative airspeed to the air and then
there's relative to the ground,and when we're dealing with wind

(01:33:52):
, you have to consider what isrelative to the air you all know
the best thing that I did formy game yes, cheater I put that
that uh graphic for what to dofor disc golf in the wind as my
home screen, no, my, my lockscreen on my phone.

Speaker 1 (01:34:13):
So it's right there, easy access when I'm playing
disc golf.
Yeah.
And then my kids tease me forit.

(01:34:20):
No, that's that's a fantastic way of doing it.
It's all well and good, and youalso.
You also need to know why thathappens and so that you can
gauge wind speeds and understandhow your disc is going to fly.
And that's that's why aunderstable disc will flip over
in the wind and you'll losecontrol over it.
And in a headwind, I should say, is because the relative

(01:34:44):
airspeed if you're have a20-mile-an-hour headwind and
you're throwing a50-mile-an-hour shot, all of a
sudden your disc is moving 70miles an hour and that disc is
going to need a lot more spin inorder to keep it stable, spin
that you probably just don'thave because you're not there in
your game yet and that disc isgoing to flip over and tank into

(01:35:04):
the ground.

Speaker 1 (01:35:07):
I have more spin on my discs than you do.
I know you do.

(01:35:12):
And that's the reason I have such trouble controlling things
like sidewinders and what arethe other ones Some of the lower
speed discs is because I have alot of forward velocity but I
don't have a lot of spin.
I have a lot of forwardvelocity but I don't have a lot
of spin, and that's somethingthat I've really been working on
lately is learning how to crackthe whip so that I can get a

(01:35:33):
maximum amount of spin on thedisc to keep them stable.
That's what I was talking aboutwhen I was talking about
gyroscopic procession.
Is that the more spin you haveon your disc, the more stable
they are?

Speaker 1 (01:35:48):
She rolling your eyes , all right, so that was my, my
torque, my resistance of moreinformation going into my head
as my eyes are spinning.

(01:36:00):
You've learned so much stuff that it's pushed some old stuff
out of your head.
So now that you have absorbedall this information, committed
to memory, become a physicsmajor in aerodynamics and
aeronautical engineering and youunderstand how all these things
work.
Now you can go out and buildyour bag and hopefully we've

(01:36:23):
given you enough information andsome things to think about,
about why your discs arebehaving the way they are, why
things are going the way theyare for you.
I see it all the time, withmistakes that are made, that
people are still going out thereplaying with discs that,
honestly, because of their armspeed and skill level, they have
no business playing.

(01:36:44):
With their arm speed and skilllevel, they have no business
playing with.
Uh, somehow they still make itwork.
But you're looking to equip,you're looking to equipment to
remedy a problem with your formand your technique and and it's
not the equipment's fault.
So what I would say is uh,practice and study more and get

(01:37:04):
better and use the rightequipment so you don't develop
bad habits that you're going tohave to go back and unlearn
later.
And through all of this otherstuff, there's different
plastics, different variabilitybetween different brands.
Ultimately, what you're goingto need to do is you're going to

(01:37:27):
need to take out a bag full ofdiscs, all sorts of things, all
sorts of different brands.
Find things that you like, findthings that you don't like.
Things that'll work.
Try out different numberfamilies and see how they work
for you, because ultimately,that's what matters, it's what's
going to work for you and yourgame and how you play, uh,

(01:37:49):
naturally.
And when you do that, make sureyou take measurements so that
you know exactly how far, howmuch left and right swing
they're getting.
Put actual distances andmeasurements to it and create
your own flight chart, much likethe ones they have in the disc
golf shop that show you what thediscs do.

(01:38:11):
The only thing that matters iswhat that flight chart does to
you.
What is your flight chart looklike?
And then go back and evaluateand test this out several times,
especially as your season goeson, especially as your skill
level goes up, because peoplewill outgrow discs and people
will, uh, you know, there arediscs I used to love that I just

(01:38:33):
can't throw anymore.
And there's this that I wishedI could have been able to throw,
and they've been out of my bagfor years and I finally was able
to put them back in my bag,because I can actually throw
them now.
So things will grow, thingswill change over time, depending
on your results.
You're going to have to adoptyour technique or adopt your
discs to better fit your gameand maybe assign your own flight

(01:38:58):
numbers if you feel so muchthat it's necessary.
Or you can just do what a lotof people do and just ignore
everything completely and gowith whatever feels good, as
long as it works for you.
But having having the besttools in your bag is going to
make you a more effective player, and one of the one of the

(01:39:20):
greatest quotes I've heard isthat golf is a game that's
played over nine inches andthat's the nine inches.
That is between your ears as weget on with it here.
We will talk about building abag and disc selection a little
later on, in a different episode, and come back to this.
So, jenny, how do you feelabout this?

(01:39:44):
Is your brain full?
It doesn't make any sense.
Well, you're going to have togo back and let's do it again
and again and again and againand take notes.
We will talk about discselection and building that bag
and the different 12 slots andthings that you're supposed to
fill.
We can talk about that inanother episode, but that's
probably enough for now.

(01:40:05):
We're going to go ahead andclose it off here at the
Intentional Disc Golfer Podcast.
So in this episode we hope thatnow you have a basic knowledge
and history of how these flightnumbers are developed and
assigned to the discs, thedifferent key concepts and terms

(01:40:34):
involving disc flightaerodynamics, gyroscopic forces,
airfoils, velocity, newtons,etc.
Etc.
Etc.
And you should have some usefultools to help analyze your
discs.
We'll post them online, theselittle pictures.
The speedometer tool issomething that I stole from a
guy on YouTube.
He deserves all the credit.
I modified it a little bit tomake it a little more sense, but

(01:40:54):
it's a really good visual aidto help you kind of map out your
discs and what they're supposedto do.
Um, hopefully we covered some ofyour common questions, uh,
misconceptions.
Um, especially the one for methat blew my mind is the knowing
the role of the gyroscopicforce and that if my discs are
flipping over, it's because Ineed to add more spin or I need

(01:41:15):
to take off velocity.
Uh, that w that was a big gamechanger for me, uh, and
hopefully that helps you guysout.
We gave you some tips andtricks on building a more
effective bag for your game.
We'll get into it a little bitdeeper in a later episode.
Talk about how to really buildthat bag out, select those discs
to fill all those holes.
We've also discussed somepractical uses on how these

(01:41:38):
principles and different physicsof flight can help improve your
game.
Like I uh said earlier, if youuh appreciate the information
that we're putting out here, youlove our podcast.
You can't live without us.
Please go out, tell all of yourfriends, spread the word.
You can find us, uh, well, notfind us, but well, maybe you'll

(01:42:02):
find us.
I don't know, but hit that likesubscribe, uh follow button.
I don't know, but hit that likesubscribe, uh, follow button.
We have a Facebook andInstagram at Saprinsky disc golf
.
That is CZ U P R Y N S K I discgolf.
We are an X and YouTube at theIDG podcast.
That is at the IDG podcast, andif you want to get ahold of us,

(01:42:24):
uh, it is the intentional discgolfer at gmailcom.
The intentional disc golfer atgmailcom.
Uh, also visit us on ourPatreon If you want to
contribute something or supportthe show.
Patreoncom backslash theintentional disc golfer.
And after the credit, musicplays uh, we will have some
bloopers and outtakes at the endof this episode, so please do

(01:42:47):
stick around for that.
We would like to, uh, thank allof our fans and our supporters
that have been with usthroughout the years and stuck
with us.
I know you've waited a longtime and we're back and
hopefully, uh, you'll, you'llstick with us.
So, closing everything out, myname again again is Brandon, and

(01:43:07):
your other intentional discgolfer here is Jenny, and here
at the intentional disc golferpodcast, we truly do believe
that disc golf changes lives, soplease go out there and grow
the sport.
Thank you for listening to thisepisode of the Intentional Disc

(01:43:37):
Golfer Podcast.
These are the bloopers andouttakes from this latest
episode.
We do have to warn you thatprofanity may be used and
sensitive topics may bediscussed.
Listener discretion is highlyadvised to avoid this.
Please stop listening and moveon to the next episode.
Now, the dryer is done.

(01:43:57):
The dryer is done.

Speaker 1 (01:43:58):
Yes, Clean towels clean towels.

(01:44:02):
Clean towels are a thing.
We're going to have a cleandolls.

Speaker 1 (01:44:04):
Well, it doesn't make sense to take a shower and then
dry off with a towel that'scovered in dog hair.

(01:44:11):
Why are you drying off the dog with your towel?
No, it's just the dog hair'severywhere.
Oh yeah, Well, dog hair.
Well, why is the dog hair inthe bathroom?

Speaker 1 (01:44:18):
We don't let the dog in the bathroom.
We bathe the dog.

(01:44:21):
Well, yeah, but not with our towels.
Where their towel is, we usethe purple towel.
That's the dog towel, alright,so Are you playing music on your
phone?
You put your phone down.
What are you doing?
I?

Speaker 1 (01:44:38):
know my mom.

(01:44:39):
Your mom.

Speaker 1 (01:44:40):
She's up this late, your mom doesn't stay up this
late.
Yeah, she does.
She doesn't sleep like you oh.

(01:44:50):
Okay.
So While the dog's drinking?
Oh oh, toffee saved some fishes.
Reminds me of League of theirOwn, when Tom Hanks Goes in and
takes a pee.
Kyle, toffee saved some fishes.
Reminds me of League of theirOwn, when Tom Hanks goes in and

(01:45:11):
takes a pee and they're alltiming him.
He's all hungover.
He's still drinking.
I have a timer on this thing.
It's been over a minute.
This is amazing.

Speaker 1 (01:45:24):
He drinks about, as long as you ramble on about disc
golf oh, I get nerdy over thisstuff.

(01:45:31):
It's ridiculous.
Yeah, way too nerdy.
And oh, he came up for air andshe's drinking again.
Oh, and there we go.
Good girl Toffee, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:45:51):
Yes, there are iRobots that in their off time
from throwing clay pigeons theytake a break and they go disc
golf for the companies.

(01:46:01):
That's a nice idea actually, like it's the dawn of AI, ai and
disc golf.
That's going to be the newthing.
I'm telling you.
It's groundbreaking.

Speaker 1 (01:46:13):
You have an entire rubric.

(01:46:15):
Just stick to your plan all right, all right, I'll stick to
the plan.

Speaker 1 (01:46:18):
I'll stick to the plan you're the teacher, you're
the one that talks the wholetime I'm, I'm, the teacher, huh
yes, sir.

(01:46:26):
Alright, you don't think so, no, okay, so the first number.

Speaker 1 (01:46:32):
No, mansplaining is not going to make it better.

(01:46:34):
Mansplaining is not going to make it better.
Oh, she's got the notes.

Speaker 1 (01:46:38):
Where are you?

(01:46:39):
I'm down Speed.

Speaker 1 (01:46:46):
So you're on speed, I'm on speed, I'm on speed okay,
yeah so maybe I should reviewyour lessons you need well I
asked you to teacher this is.

(01:47:08):
You know how many times I'vetaught science without actually
testing the experiment?
I know this is.

(01:47:13):
This is shorthand, so that my brain can work on it.
So, like it's not, nobody elsecan understand it, except for
you.
Well, me, and maybe you,because you're kind of a good
translator after 10 years.
Oh no, it's the dog.
So anyway, the first number onyour disc represents speed.

Speaker 1 (01:47:35):
Speed is a the dog is drinking.
It is time for a snack break,all right water break break.
Alright, water break.
Um, no, no, no, not really, no,not really.

(01:47:59):
If you start playing noises,I'm taking off the headphones.

(01:48:05):
Oh yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:48:05):
Yeah.

(01:48:06):
But it's okay for you to play.

Speaker 1 (01:48:08):
I haven't touched the damn thing, whoa watch it.

(01:48:12):
Watch it here now come back.
I know we're almost done.
No, we're not.

Speaker 1 (01:48:23):
Yes, we are.
We still have 20 pages left ofyour 12 pages.

(01:48:26):
It's not 12, it's probably 20 pages.
That's why you're a chemistryperson.
God.

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