Sidearm Mastery: Sarah Hokom's Disc Golf Journey

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
Welcome to the Intentional Disc Golfer Podcast,
the show dedicated to helpingyou elevate your disc golf game
with purpose and strategy.
Whether you're stepping up tothe tee for the first time or
you're a seasoned pro chasingthat perfect round, this podcast
is your guide to playingsmarter, training better and
building confidence on thecourse.

(00:38):
We are, Brandon and JennySaprinsky, passionate disc
golfers, here to exploreeverything from technique,
course management, mental focusand gear selection.
Grab your favorite disc, settlein and let's take your game to

(00:59):
the next level, Intentionally,Intentionally.

Speaker 3 (01:05):
And thank you so much for being here at the
Intentional Disc Golfer Podcast.
I am one of your hosts.
My name is Brandon.

Speaker 2 (01:14):
And I am Jennifer, Jenny, and I don't prefer Jen.
I've been asked that a lotlately.
It depends on the level of howmuch in trouble I'm in.

Speaker 3 (01:27):
It does.
It does.
At least they're not using yourmiddle name.

Speaker 2 (01:32):
I had to throw you off your game.

Speaker 3 (01:34):
You are, you do.
Thank you, dude.

Speaker 2 (01:37):
You're welcome.

Speaker 3 (01:40):
All right, and we would like to first of all thank
our fans for sticking with ussupporting the show.
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(02:01):
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(02:23):
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(03:06):
to include some bloopers andsome outtakes, and so please do
stay tuned.
After the outro music and youcan listen to some of those.
Get a good laugh.
Jenny, what is on our?

Speaker 2 (03:19):
community calendar.
We are doing what's it calledSoapbox Hill.

Speaker 3 (03:25):
The Soapbox Hill Work Party.
Soapbox.

Speaker 2 (03:26):
Hill Work Party on Saturday February 22nd, from
like 9 am until we're done, tosupport Team Grit City.
Go, grit City, grit City.
We have Team Golf on SundayFebruary 23rd at White River.
Sunday February 23rd at WhiteRiver, and then you are taking

(03:52):
me to shiver at the river atWhite River.
On March 2nd.
We have team golf on March 9thin Olympia.
At Delphi, I have the EvergreenWomen's Series Fierce Flight
Showdown at Maple Valley,gaffney's Grove, on March 15th.
You are doing the West ZoneInvitational on Saturday, march
15th.
Team Golf 7 at Shelton on March16th, the fourth annual

(04:16):
Christopher Reeves Memorial andFundraiser for Autism Speaks,
sponsored by Dynamic Discs.
On March 22nd.
We're debating about doingFlood Warning on March 29th
Haven't signed up for that oneyet and then Washington Team
Golf Championship on March 30th.
Then we're signed up forDiscing at the Depot on April

(04:40):
5th and a few more things.
And then let's talk about ourtournaments.
So we have Sirens of theSprings, part of the Evergreen
Women's Series, at SheltonSprings on May 3rd, and Tritons
of the Timbers, which is goingto be a mixed event for men and
women, at Shelton Springs onSunday, may 4th.

Speaker 3 (05:03):
Yeah.
So Saturday and Sunday, twoback-to-back tournaments one for
the Evergreen Women's Seriespromoting women in disc golf.
So, ladies, come on out andhave a good time and then the
next day you can have yourcaddies play on this very same
course that you got to play onthe day before.
And we would like to announcethat we got a very, very cool

(05:24):
sponsor for this tournament Boththe tournaments, actually.
We'd like to thank TechDisc forbeing our sponsor.
They're going to be at thetournament.
Well, we're going to be demoingtheir products at the
tournament so that you can tryout a TechDisc and see what
that's all about.
So thank you very much,techdisc.
We really appreciate that.
And those places that jennylisted off are all the

(05:47):
tournaments that you can comesee us at.
So if you want to come and makea new friend or talk disc golf,
uh, that's where we will be andwhen we will be there.
So, jenny, we have been on a hotstreak lately.
We have been in a hot streaklately with having exceptional

(06:07):
special guests on our podcast.
We had scott stokely.
You're still using special, Iknow, but we've been on a hot
streak lately.
We have had multiple guestscome on the podcast.
We had scott stokely.
That was really exciting.
What a sweetheart I don't haveany other word for him.
He's just a really kind, kindperson.

(06:28):
And then we just had RyanScaife talking about the Hope in
Tanzania project with the PaulMacbeth Foundation.
So that's really exciting,bringing the sport of disc golf
to Tanzania, africa some of theoldest land in the world where
human beings actually got theirstart.

(06:48):
So that's really really cool.
And now this episode.

Speaker 2 (06:54):
One of the best, as one of our fans posted an OG
female player, which we willtell you in a few minutes.
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Speaker 3 (08:57):
So, jenny, we have another awesome guest for you
guys today.
Would you please go ahead andintroduce yourself for our
listeners.

Speaker 1 (09:07):
What's up everybody.
This is Sarah Holcomb.
I'm the single 2012 worldchampion, but I am a four-time
major champion and I'm superstoked to be here with you guys.
I've been doing this sinceabout 2007 and been on the road
doing it since 2012 as aprofessional and been on the
road doing it since 2012 as aprofessional.

Speaker 3 (09:29):
Very cool, very cool.
So, to get us started, sarah,how?

Speaker 1 (09:32):
did you get started playing disc golf?
You know, kind of likeeverybody else, really.
Just some buddies invited me toplay and I came out, met them
out there at Quail Ridge ParkShout out to the Ridge Runners,
most of which don't actuallylive there anymore, but it's in

(09:52):
Wentzville, missouri.
It was you know so long, 2007,.
We're talking, so this was alot almost 20 years ago.
But yeah, invited me to playand then he hit an ace by
ricocheting off of a tree onhole seven of this round, my
very first round, wow, and I wasjust like dumbfounded.

(10:13):
And then I met a group ofhoodlums in the woods, invited
me to play the local league, andthese are my kind of hoodlums.
So I obliged and joined themthe next week for doubles bring
your own partner doubles.
And unfortunately I was stillterrible after a week, of course
, as everyone is, and so Iresolved to get out and get

(10:36):
better for myself and for mypartner, poor guy.
And so then I started playinglike every day after work, and
that was kind of the beginningfor for me so when you first
started playing because you'reknown for being a sidearm player
did you sidearm at first?

Speaker 2 (10:55):
did you try him backhand, like what was your
first round?
Like?

Speaker 1 (10:58):
yeah, I was.
I tried both, you know um, justlike trying to throw it like you
would throw a frisbee, and thenI also tried to throw it like
you would throw well forisbee,and then I also tried to throw
it like you would throw well forme it was like throwing
softball, because I had playedsoftball as a kid so that was
kind of a natural throw for meand because of the softball
throwing, I was an infielder soshortstop was my main place and

(11:19):
I would, you know, field theball from low and fire it to
first base and throwing asidearm felt a lot like that.
So when I could naturally justdo that really well, for the
first couple of years I did notreally focus on the backhand off
the tee.
Now, from short distances forsure, I would throw backhands
within like a hundred feet orsomething, but otherwise it was

(11:41):
all sidearms and yeah, that's'sbeen a.
It's been an interestingjourney being so sidearm
dominant for for a long time whydon't you just share us a bit
about that journey?

Speaker 2 (11:53):
so I'm I'm a predominantly backhand player
and I I was not athletic as akid.
I I did bowling like, and I didbowling and I did band, so
doing like a sidearm.
It's hard for me to do asidearm, so, like, what was,
what was your journey like?
Share?

Speaker 1 (12:12):
yeah, well, I mean, there was always this.
Well, it's kind of weird beinga female in the sport also,
right, so I'm kind of goingagainst the grain a bit as just
my even in just my gender.
You know, I mean as much aspeople are welcoming, uh, you
know, just like being like yay,you know I, I mean as much as
people are welcoming, uh, youknow, just like being like yay,
you know, I'm glad you're here.
Um, it does feel a little bitalienating as a woman, um,
because you are.

(12:32):
There's not other people likeyou out there so often.
So that was that part of it.
But then I also was throwingsidearms, which is, you know,
not the traditional throw.
So, um, I think I kind ofleaned into the otherness of my
persona as a disc golfer and Ijust continued to foster that.

(12:52):
And, you know, with it came alot of having to kind of silence
haters or silence people whoare trying to, you know, tell me
how to do something, and thatwas, you know, in some ways it
was good, in some ways it wasgood, in some ways it was bad.
I was able to really develop myown style, and in the bad ways,
you know, I didn't develop abackhand for many, many years
until, you know, so many yearsafter I started and I still, I

(13:17):
still don't have a very good one.
Really, you know, it's comingalong, but it actually has, and
I guess I'll just kind of jumpto now.
It's actually been the thingthat keeps driving me, it's my
motivator right now as a player.
You know, after many, manyyears of touring, it's like how
much more can you really do?
What else can you really do outthere?

(13:38):
And developing that final shot,figuring out how to throw all
the angles, backhand has beenkind of the thing that keeps me
on the practice field.

Speaker 3 (13:50):
Yeah, very cool.
I wish I could throw a backhand.

Speaker 2 (13:56):
Yeah, sure.

Speaker 1 (13:56):
Same, same.
Yeah, well, we can all throwthem, it just doesn't really go
where we're aiming.
That's a really good point wecan.

(14:23):
So just to get off topic alittle bit, you, when we were in
science and I did some researchin food science right after
college Until I decided that Ireally enjoyed.
I actually got brought intoteaching as a coach.
I was a volleyball player incollege and I had developed some
coaching strategies throughoutthat time and had inquired about

(14:45):
coaching in the area where Ilived in the St Louis area and
found a good job coaching somejunior Olympic club teams and
was really enjoying that.
And so I thought that, you know, instead of doing research
science where I'm away from theeducation system, I would love
to get into education so I cancoach, which is kind of

(15:08):
backwards reason to get aneducation.
But I really did enjoy theteaching part of it, just
developing the lesson plans andtrying to get kids excited about
science, which is kind of ahard, difficult thing.
A lot of kids don't like scienceturns out.
I didn't realize that, but Idid enjoy that part of it.
I only lasted about three years.

(15:29):
The industry is really tough.

Speaker 2 (15:30):
You'll love this.
Last year at the school I wasat, our science teacher was
teaching kids about aerodynamicsand so they had they're
building paper airplanes.
Well, since we had gotten thedisc golf course by the Paul
Macbeth Foundation at our school, some of the kids were like can
I make a disc out of paper?

(15:51):
So they were trying to buildpaper discs and they weren't
flying right.
And I'm like well, what'smissing?
They're like the rim.
So once they put a rim on thatsheet of paper, it was flying
pretty good.
So getting the kids out there.
What a great lesson.
Yeah, doing some science andthen throwing the making paper

(16:14):
discs and actually getting theminto the basket.
It was a fun lesson.

Speaker 1 (16:19):
That's awesome.
I love that.

Speaker 3 (16:21):
That is really cool yeah.

Speaker 2 (16:24):
Kids are fun.
They, they are getting that ahamoment oh yeah, anytime you can
get that aha moment.
I think that's one of thethings I actually love about
disc golf is when somethingactually does click or connect
or make sense, like I can, allof a sudden, you know, do this
turnover shot.
Or I'm still at a point in mygrowth where it's like, wow, my

(16:45):
disc just did a full, like flexflight, like I'm so excited
about that because it wasn'tdoing that before.
So being able to see thoseresults out there, I think that
helps us.

Speaker 1 (16:55):
You know, stick with the game yeah, man, that's
absolutely a lot of theeducational strategies that
teachers can employ to try tocontinue to motivate and get
growth from kids are the samethings that work in coaching
disc golf.

Speaker 3 (17:11):
So what happened out there on the course when you
started out driving the guys andout playing the guys?
What was that reaction like?

Speaker 1 (17:24):
Let's see, I guess, I guess I'm pretty.
I guess in some ways I'm prettygood at not comparing myself to
the guys.
So I would say I just Idiscouraged it from the
beginning.
When it comes to my friendgroups, um, we didn't get, I
didn't get competitive with withthem, I'm like we're not the

(17:44):
same.
This has been kind of enduringmy whole life.
I had two older brothers, so Ilearned about competing against
males at a young age and I thinkthat my competition against my
brothers who were older andobviously stronger I think that

(18:08):
that's what kind of fueled a lotof my athletic passions.
And so once I got older I kindof realized how inappropriate it
really is to compare myself tomen in a sport like this.
Right, that's a heck of ananswer.

Speaker 3 (18:17):
That's really good.

Speaker 1 (18:20):
Now I think that there is utility where comparing
yourself is totally fine, youknow, like in a casual setting,
when you're playing some doublesand you know whatever.
That's the kind of competitionwhere I really like, where it's
really random, you know youdon't have this where the course
can be stacked for you oragainst you, your partners, your
skill sets, combination can bea whole.

(18:42):
You know that's the kind ofreally fun golf that I really
enjoy.
When there's really noexpectations and we're not like
it's not, you know, we're notplaying for all this tons of
money.
I think it's totallyappropriate to compete within
genders and stuff there.
But when we're talking abouthigh level golf, um, I just I
don't, even I don't.
I don't get any joy frombeating men and I don't expect
them to get any from beating me.

(19:05):
Gotcha, I'm not like ah, you gotbeat by a girl.

Speaker 3 (19:10):
You know I don't.

Speaker 1 (19:11):
I don't think I don't think that at all.
You know that does not cross mymind.
However, some men will say, ah,they'll feel butthurt if they
get beat by me or something.
And I don't feel any kind ofway about it, but feel some way
about it and I think that saysmore about them than me jenny's

(19:33):
getting to the point where we'replaying pretty neck and neck,
so there's a friendly familyrivalry going on.
Yes, yeah, those rivalries aresuper fun.
Um, actually, me and myboyfriend kind of have a bit of
a rivalry going on.
We do a couple little roundshere and there.
Well, we'll keep score and youknow it's pretty funny yeah, I'm

(19:53):
gonna.
He usually, uh, he usuallymesses up down the stretch and
then I catch him right at theend so I was wondering.

Speaker 2 (20:03):
So you've had these experiences where, like you're
talking about, you're the onlywoman there on the course.
Like, what advice do you haveout there for the women who
maybe want to come out and playfor a first time, or they're
really nervous about getting outthere?
Like, what advice do you have?

Speaker 1 (20:27):
Well, I think I would .
Normally I'd just be like Ithink in the past I might have
just, you know, just get outthere, just do it, you can do it
, you know it's fine.
But you know, I think now Irealize that there's a lot of
nuance to people andpersonalities.
One thing that made me okaywith the situation is is I have
brothers.
I'm used to playing againstboys and men and I've been

(20:48):
around a lot of boys and men mywhole life playing sports and
I'm not as worried about.
I know that I'm athletic right,I have this persona, this
identity, um.
So I know that I'm going to beable to pick up this thing
that's happening.
And disc golf is enough.
There's enough touch andfinesse.
You know that.

(21:10):
You know I can keep up with theaverage dudes.
So I knew I had the confidencealready going into it as an
athlete that I could do it.
So it didn't bother me so muchto be the only female and I
could handle that.
But that's because of my past.
I think that if you put yourselfin that situation as a woman,
you're really, reallyuncomfortable.
You're going to get in there,you're going to panic.
High anxiety, performanceanxiety starts to pump in there

(21:33):
You're really worried aboutpeople watching you, you don't
feel like you're athletic,you're nervous.
It could be a disaster, to behonest, to jump into a double
situation.
It could be the thing thatmakes honest to jump into like a
double situation, you know.
It could be the thing thatmakes you never want to play
again.
Yeah, so I think, depending onyou know your personality type,
I think a lot of women willthrive in a situation where

(21:57):
there's other women learning forthe first time or other women
just playing and playing normalwomen's games.
That maybe isn't an overlydeveloped drive.
Um, you know, maybeuncompletely, you know, maybe
they have never worked on form,you know, and um, so we're
getting like shorter distances.
Um, there's, people are seeinga more uh, I think if women see
a more realistic version of whatit feels like or what it looks

(22:21):
like to come up in the game,then what they're going to see
from their male counterparts, Ithink that it'll be a more
welcoming environment for mostwomen.
I would say upwards of like 80%of women are going to thrive in
that kind of environment andmaybe only 20-30% are going to
thrive in this all-maledominated environment.

Speaker 2 (22:41):
Yeah, we're pretty blessed up here that we've got
an Evergreen Women's Series thatruns this year.
I think we're having eight ornine events specifically for
women, women tournamentdirectors, and you know, I'm
scrolling on social media andI'm seeing more and more of
these series pop up.
I'm seeing that groups aredoing like tag series where

(23:03):
women and juniors are free tojoin in.
So I'm really seeing that.
I think that push to you know,honor women in the sport and say
, hey, ok, you can play the samesport as us, but we need to
make a few of these changes.
I think that's.
You know.
It seems like we have thatmomentum.

Speaker 1 (23:23):
Yeah, I think I think we're all getting there.
I love to see the progressionand I hope that they're allowing
the kids and the women to playon cards with all women or all
kids Maybe there's an adult, I'mnot sure but just being able to
play golf amongst their peers,uh, is the best, I think well,

(23:46):
and I'll just plug it and saywe're.

Speaker 3 (23:48):
you know, I have a bunch of daughters and uh and
jenny and I, we have a bunch ofdaughters, like four of them.
So we really, really like topump up and encourage women's
disc golf.
So, ladies, come on out, play,play and I think we take a page
out of Scott Stokely's book.

(24:08):
Here is get on out there.
Disc golfers are some of themost gentle, humble, coolest
people you'll ever meet, and youwill be adopted by the people
on the course.
So you'll be protected, youwill be looked after.
There's a lot of caring,wonderful people out there that

(24:28):
just are happy to see you there.
So come on out, it's a safeplace.

Speaker 1 (24:33):
Yeah, and I mean as much as women may feel like
they're holding you up.
If you're your first time andyou're not throwing as far, you
may feel like you're holdingpeople up or you know you don't
feel like you're any good orjust can, can't do it.
The people out there are notfeeling held up.
They want you there more sothan they want to finish a round
quicker.

Speaker 3 (24:49):
They're probably just enjoying watching you yeah.

Speaker 1 (24:54):
Which, honestly, I'm telling you, from a female
perspective, that can even bemore anxiety-inducing.

Speaker 2 (25:00):
Oh, that's true, oh, for sure.

Speaker 1 (25:15):
The fact that even some of this over-excitement the
hey, that's for sure.

Speaker 2 (25:20):
some friends I play with that are like you guys all
need to turn around.

Speaker 1 (25:25):
I uh, yeah, yeah, no, for real it's.
It's, it's very, very, verycommon, um, and I think that we,
I think we really need to tryto break that down and make sure
that kind of normalize, thatkind of those kinds of feelings.
Um, amongst women trying to dosomething athletic in front of a
bunch of dudes, like it's, it'sreally common to feel like oh
my gosh, this is.

(25:45):
Some women might be like oh,watch this, check this out.
Other women, I think, are goingto be like oh my gosh, please
don't watch me and I don't know,maybe I've got user user bias
here.

Speaker 2 (25:58):
I think more of the latter.
Yeah, I think there is a lotmore of of the women that are
like, don't, look, I'm not atthat point yet.
Like, um, yeah, it, it likeI've been playing for five years
now and I am finally to thepoint where you know if we're,
if just the two of us areplaying, and we're coming up on
a card of like six or sevenpeople out there and they're

(26:19):
like, oh, go ahead and playthrough.
Like I'm finally to the pointwhere I can calm my nerves
enough to, okay, I need to throwso we can move on like we can
do this.

Speaker 3 (26:30):
She's actually the one that smashes it.

Speaker 2 (26:32):
And then I go up there and choke I know, but
that's because I'm working on mymental game especially if
there's a throw off for a basketin front of 60 people.

Speaker 3 (26:42):
Yeah, yeah, way to go .

Speaker 1 (26:43):
Thanks, oh yeah, yeah , totally no.
These are all the situations.

Speaker 3 (26:53):
I got to give her a little bit of guff for it.

Speaker 1 (26:54):
It always makes me think about, like how do we
become?
And I'm always asking myselfthis question is how do I get
comfortable shanking a shotsideways in front of perfect
strangers?
Well, let's unpack that.
Are you comfortable enough inyour game that you can shank a
shot in front of strangers andnot be embarrassed and not let

(27:16):
it affect the rest of your game?
These are the places we'retrying to get to.

Speaker 2 (27:21):
Yeah.
So one of the things I wasthinking about when coming up
with you know, hey, I get tointerview you.
I was thinking about how, whenI watch you on tv or or you know
, I've I've seen you play, youknow, through the tv.
Hopefully I'll get to see youwhen you're up here for cascade
challenge, so excited for thaton it.

(27:41):
So you're not one of thoseplayers that I see really you
know has a bad shot, reallythrow off your game.
So can you share with us?
You know what that learning hasbeen like and how you've gotten
to this point.
Not saying that you're perfectat it we can always improve but
you know how did you get to thispoint, what were your steps,

(28:01):
what was your journey like?
How did you get to this point,what were your steps?

Speaker 1 (28:06):
What was your journey like?
It's a long and complicated andconvoluted process with lots of
highs and lows.
You know mountains and valleys.
I would say mentally in orderto avoid allowing yourself to
get totally worked up by thatshot.
I think my first startedlearning about that with Bob

(28:28):
Rotella.
Golf is not a game of perfect.
Probably read that in 2011 forthe first time and that's how I
started winning immediately.
Wow, which is amazing.

Speaker 3 (28:41):
I had won a big Bob Rotella who is that Bob Rotella?

Speaker 1 (28:43):
Oh my gosh, you don't know who Bob Rotella is.
Is that Bob Rotella?
Oh my gosh, you don't know whoBob Rotella is.
No, I don't, Well I'm going toavoid shaming you right now.
I'm sorry.

Speaker 3 (28:52):
No, go for it.
This is going to come out onthe course somewhere.

Speaker 1 (28:56):
I didn't mean to be so shocked that you hadn't heard
his name.
Go for it.
Okay, Mr Robert.
Yeah, Bob Rotella, Go for it.
Okay, Mr Robert, yeah, BobRotella, he's probably written
about a dozen books.
His most famous work is Golf isNot a Game of Perfect, and the
beauty of Bob Rotella's stuff isthat he has worked with so many

(29:16):
like championship golfers, ballgolfers.
But the works that he writesabout don't apply just to ball
golf.
They apply completely to discgolf, unlike um, like harvey
pennock's little red book ofsecrets and some of the other
golf works um that are.
They help you with golf and themental game.

(29:37):
But they talk a lot aboutthings in the golf game like the
you know the tension in yourgrip and the you know the angle
of your hips and some of thesethings that do apply to disc
golf, but not as much physically.
But Bob Rotella really focuseson the mental side of the game
and it's he has, like I said, hehas about a dozen.
Probably has more, I don't know.

(29:58):
I've read about three of them,but they they always have the
similar point, similar points,but they say it in a totally
different way.
So I would highly recommendpicking up and you can just kind
of read his stuff, one bookafter another.
It's one of those things weforget, so many things that we
already know.

(30:18):
So rereading his books isreally helpful, even if you've
read them already.
But his stuff really focuses onthe process versus the outcome
stuff.
He gives tips about not keepingscore, focusing on keeping a
correct level of tension in thebody, enough focus that you're
focused and not so much thatyou're tense.

(30:39):
Like the process versus theoutcome goals, focusing on
everything that you can controlin the middle of your routine
and using the things you cancontrol as your guide to success
, rather than a podium finish ora score that you may want to
achieve on a course.
Those kind of goals are nothelpful to your game.

Speaker 3 (31:06):
So kind of focus more on the journey rather than the
result.

Speaker 1 (31:10):
Yeah, enjoying the process.
So you're enjoying the journeyof what it means to throw a disc
and what you're trying to do onthe course.
Basically, if you hit the shotoff off the tee, you know, you,
you're like envisioning thisturnover coming through these
trees and so it hits.
It hits the shot, it turns over, and then it maybe hits a tree

(31:33):
and kicks left really hard intosome stuff.
You're actually kind of okaywith that, because you, you, you
, the process was to hit thisturnover and you actually just
this, read the disc, you, youthrew the wrong disc.
You're pretty happy with theshot, though, so you can take
some kind of satisfaction inthat.
And you're, and now you'regoing to go, and so then he
would say you're not worriedabout the result, that it kicked

(31:53):
into the woods.
You're really happy and andsatisfied with that shot because
you hit the line and next timeyou come to that hole you're
going to switch discs becauseyou realize that the, you know
the process was correct.
You just missed, you misreadthe, the, the disc, um, and then
you're going to go to that nextshot and you're going to look
at that shot with fresh eyes.
You know you're like, okay, nowwhat am I trying to do from

(32:15):
here?
You know you're not going to belike, oh, you're not going to
dwell on that last shot becauseyou did the thing.
And even if you didn't do thething, you're going to realize,
oh I should have thrown it flat,not, anheuser.
Okay, next time I you're notreally worried that it kicked
you to the woods.
Now you're just gonna go with aclean, fresh slate and go try
to execute a shot from that nextlie, one shot at a time.
You know that, that kind ofthat style of mental game and it

(32:38):
just kind of occurred to me.

Speaker 3 (32:40):
More of a rhetorical question is that you know,
percentage wise, for any golferout there, how many times do you
go up to throw and release thatdisc?
And it does exactly the way youhad it drawn up in your mind.

Speaker 1 (32:55):
I would say, if I had to guess, probably not very
often um, well, I guess itdepends on what exactly it means
to you.
Um, I would say I hit my linesprobably uh, 75, three quarters
of the time, three out of four.
I'm gonna hit the line I'maiming for, mm-hmm.

(33:16):
Now is it gonna exactly?
You know, after I release it,you know, three quarters down
the fairway is it gonna exactlyflip up?
And you know, give me thislittle bit of fade or stall at
this spot, maybe, maybe not, butthe initial part of the line is
going to be pretty consistentlyexecuted.
I would say like seven out often.

(33:36):
You know you really can't getalready on tour without throwing
most of the time where you'retrying to do.
Now you might choose certainlines based upon your ability to
execute them.
You know, like I'm onlyprobably three out of ten on
some of the backhand lines Ichoose.
So when I'm when I'm trying tochoose that line, you know I'm
expecting a higher rate of spraygotcha, gotcha, no, no, that

(34:02):
that makes sense.

Speaker 3 (34:02):
I mean, if you're on tour playing at that level, I
mean you have to be able to hityour lines more consistently.
I'm kind of talking more soabout like the overall from
front to back, you know from thetime it, you know you do your
wind up and you reach back tothe time it hits the ground yeah
I would say.

Speaker 1 (34:23):
I would say well, I guess, when we're talking like a
, now you're kind of gettinginto birdie rates, I guess is
that's probably the best thing.
They have, like birdie rates onpar threes, okay, you know.
Um, that's probably.
I mean minus own scoggins, shedoesn't count because she'll
just throw a mediocre shot to 50and bang it from there.
The rest of us have to throw itinside the circle to get birdies

(34:44):
mostly, myself included I needto get that 15-foot circle in
order to guarantee a birdie.
My birdie rate is probablycloser to 35%, 30% to 40% on a
good day, somewhere between 30%and 80% is where you're going to

(35:05):
find all of the stats, probably.
I'm very stats, I'm veryanalytical and stats based, so,
despite, I like to look at them,even though I don't like to
keep my own.

Speaker 2 (35:16):
Yeah, I the Cascade Challenge.
Two years ago I got to be ascorekeeper and I remember
walking around with Niklas andhe kept coming over to me and
talking about his stats and, asa math teacher myself, I was
like, oh, a stats person, likeI'm excited to talk to you about
these things.
Yeah, I agree with this.
It was, it was fun, it is ablessing and a curse,

(35:38):
unfortunately yeah um, likebecause stats stats is very bad
for mental game.

Speaker 1 (35:45):
Like it's great for analyzing your game afterwards
and checking out, like what youneed to focus on where you're
losing strokes, but it isabsolutely terrible for your
game in the moment right or atleast mine.
I mean, I suppose I shouldn'tspeak so in absolutes like that,
but, um, I think a lot ofpeople I don't think there's
very many people that managestats very well with their

(36:07):
mental game, because now you'realways trying to like, you're
always trying to make up forsomething, or you're now you're
concerned about maybe where your, where your competitors, where
their score is, or you're tryingto like hit a particular target
that you know on a day with 30mile an hour winds and, you know
, rain, your putting stats aregoing to be terrible.
You can't, you know you can'treally expect to hit numbers,

(36:32):
specific numbers.
You know you can't be expectingto go, you know, five down or
10 down on a in a round likethat, or you know.
Or or to even hit a podium,like hitting podiums or top
fives or top tens.
All of that depends on whateverybody else does too.
You can't control that.
So the stat stuff in some waysis really really good, but

(36:56):
mentally I don't think it's veryhelpful.

Speaker 2 (36:58):
So my perspective on the stats is so, being a woman
playing a lot of male dominatedevents, a lot of times I'm the
only one in my division or inthe event or the only woman at
the event, and so I've beenfrustrating.
It's frustrating, but it's alsolike I don't have to worry

(37:20):
about trying for the podium.
I don't have to like I actuallyget to go out to the course and
try and beat myself and beatthe course.

Speaker 1 (37:29):
So it it alleviates some of that stress the purest
form.
Yeah, you get to kind of playthe purest form of the game
where you're just playing toplay and enjoy it and try to do
the better than you did lasttime.

Speaker 3 (37:42):
I love that I'm glad that we're you brought that up
and that we're talking aboutthis because, for example,
circle putting I had anexperience recently where I was
in a tournament and it was clearday, nice day, and I can
usually hit 80%, 85% from within25 feet.
And so it's like I come up withthis expectation of, hey, I can

(38:05):
usually knock out, you know,out of 18 putts, I can usually
knock out what 12 out of the 18or so, and then if I fall below
that, it really gets into mypsyche and then there goes my
putting all together ah yes, soyou bring up a very, very
difficult, difficult part of thegame that even the most the

(38:29):
best professionals out therestruggle with.

Speaker 1 (38:30):
I watch it happen the expectation that you're going
to play how you did in practice,putts that make the kind of
putts you do in your backyard,that you do in the court on the
course in the tournament.
The fact that people want topretend that they're impervious
to the pressures of tournaments,whether they're a professional

(38:52):
or they're an amateur, whetherthey say, oh, I don't even care
about this stuff, or they're aprofessional, and they're like,
oh, I'm, I'm well trained, Iknow how to do all of this, but
then yet complain when theydon't shoot up to their
expectations because they setthese expectations in a practice
round, um, where they shot asix down, and so now, oh yeah, I
shot a six in practice, andthen they shoot a four and or a
two in the tournament andthey're like I don't know what

(39:14):
happened.
They're like I did all this inpractice and use that as like a
reason why they should do it ina tournament.
And it is, it is, it's baff me,um, that we put so much effort
into these tournaments but thenyet don't give them the respect
that they deserve mentally.
Uh, you know on thepsychological impact Hilarious,
it's such a weird combination.

Speaker 3 (39:36):
Well, it's interesting because when I used
to be in a, in a band, I used totell my guys I said, look, the
only way to get good at playingon stage is to play on stage.
You can practice all you wantin your basement, but to play in
front of people and work offthose nerves and really
understand that environment, you, you have to do that.

Speaker 1 (39:58):
Now you have to be prepared.
Yeah, I think you have toslowly prepare yourself for that
, in increments.
I don't think, if you know ifyou're, if you've never played
in front of people, I'm not suregetting yourself in front of
600 people in an auditorium isthe answer.
You know, what I mean.
Yeah right, like I would say,now it's time to play on the

(40:19):
street for strangers for alittle while, and then you know,
and then maybe get yourself asmall gig at a coffee shop, and
then, you know, work your wayinto a um, a small, you know
wedding band or whatever.
Uh, you know what I mean.
Like I think, I think that thatthat those, um, those have to
be tested in incremental ways.

Speaker 2 (40:49):
So, since you're talking about the progression of
, you know, any sort of project,what was your experience like?
Going from you know playingcasually, being introduced to
the sport already being athleticyourself, and then deciding to
go pro.
What was that experience like?

Speaker 1 (41:07):
um, man, it happened really fast.
I was also, you know, I was inmy mid-20s at the time and you
know, doing a lot of thingsmid-20 year olds do, um, which
is, you know, having a lot offun.
I was uh enjoying, uh like, mycareer.
Um, you know, trying to workthrough friend relationships.
My own personal relationshipswere kind of a mess here and

(41:32):
there, as they are at a20-year-old, so a lot of changes
were happening for me and discgolf was kind of my escape and
it ended up being the thing thatI clung to through all the
turmoil, being the thing that Iclung to through all the turmoil
.
So I started playing withfriends and then I started to
play local leagues and then Istarted to play local
tournaments.

(41:52):
And then, about six monthslater, some of my friends and I,
who I was playing tournamentswith, we decided to go to drive
down to Bowling Green to playthe biggest amateur event in the
spring.
It was my first big tournamentoutside of my home area and we
went there and there was a fieldof 18 FA1s.
Wow.

(42:12):
Now wow, right, yeah, that's agood tournament.

Speaker 2 (42:15):
In 2007.

Speaker 1 (42:16):
Yeah, oh no, it was 2008.
Excuse me, but 18.
I was like what, Anyway?
I had never played against.
I played against one otherwoman in St Louis one time, so I
was like oh my gosh.
And then we played.
I played with other women thewhole time I was like, oh my
gosh, this is amazing.
I won a playoff to get into thefinal nine, and then we go into

(42:42):
the final nine and there's awhole bunch of people watching
and then we go into the finalnine, and there's a whole bunch
of people watching.
And then we go into the finalnine and I am as nervous as I
have ever been in my life.
I played college sports, teamsports, though I was a pitcher

(43:02):
also in softball.
I also played basketball, sofree throw shooting as a also in
softball I also played likebasketball, so free throw
shooting.
And then like serving involleyball I was an OK server,
but I was definitely notnecessarily the person they were
going to put in to win the gamein the serving position, right,
whatever, I didn't have it.
I didn't have that manyopportunities like as a.
You know, I was clutch as areactive player but I didn't

(43:23):
have as many opportunities.
I was clutch as a reactiveplayer, but I didn't have as
many opportunities.
It wasn't like golf, where youstart the motion and then you're
able to do the thing atwhatever time you want, versus a
reactive sport that I hadalways played.
So, with disc golf, being ableto think a lot before your shot
really messed with me.
It was something that I reallyhad to work through.
So I was super nervous in thisfinal nine.
Like, seriously, nothing in mysports background really helped

(43:48):
me for this, um, and I playedokay, okay I I don't know how I
managed.
I was just so nervous.
I mean, I don't know it's.

Speaker 4 (43:55):
it's actually as far as I can tell well, the.
Thing the thing about teamsports.

Speaker 3 (44:03):
The thing about team sports is that you have that
safety net of the other peopleon the court or on the on the
field with you and it'sabsolutely you.
You're just kind of in thisseparate environment where
you're able to, kind of you'llblock it all out, because the
fans are up there in the standsand you're down there on the
field.
So you kind of got this bubblearound you.

(44:24):
Now golf, oh, absolutely likegolf.
I mean we were at cascadechallenge last year and vino uh
hit a tree and went off into thewoods and he was lining up to
take a second shot andeverybody's like five feet from
him and I'm like guys, give himsome room, like come on, you

(44:46):
know what I mean.
And he's just there and likeyou could reach out your arm and
touch the guy and it was likeget away from him, like give him
some space.

Speaker 1 (44:55):
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3 (44:57):
No, for real.
Yeah, so golf is a littledifferent monster that way.

Speaker 1 (45:04):
It really is.
So we come down, we finish thisfinal nine and I'm in fourth
place to start and I actuallytie it up on the last hole for
the leader.
Wow, so we're tied, I bet, butit's dark, it's dark, so yeah.
And so the only reason I caughtthis lady um sandra frazier,

(45:28):
one of the frazier part of thefrazier family well known from
the midwest.
Rebecca, michelle, uh, nicole,are the three daughters that
played their.
Their father also plays.
Shout out to the fraziers verycool uh, but sandra and I are
tied.
I only got.
I only caught her, cause Ithrew farther than her, um, and
this was a big course.

(45:48):
We were playing on the finalnine, so I caught her because of
that Not because I'm a shortgame, mind you, um, and I didn't
know anything about the sportat the time or any of the rule.
I mean, I know the basic rules,but I didn't understand.
I didn't have very muchexperience.
So the TD decides that we'regoing to do the playoff because
we can't play any more holes.

(46:08):
We're going to do a putt-off inthe gym in front of 350 people
oh gosh, oh gosh who are allpatiently or not so patiently
waiting for their payout, whichthey're not going to get until
this is over oh, arms arecrossed, they're tapping their
foot like let's go, come on,we've been here all day.

(46:30):
I mean I don't know, I couldn'tlook at I, I couldn't look at
any of them in the eyeballs.
I'm trying to pretend they'renot there, I don't know how, but
the vibe people are just likeeyeballs and everybody's
watching and oh my gosh, canthis please be over sooner than
later?
So we go, they start us.
They start us at like 30 feet.
We don't make putts for likefive putts or something we fight

(46:52):
.
She finally makes a putt from20 and I miss it.
She wins, we're over.
But I was like this is thedumbest thing, this is not disc
golf.
I can't believe I, you know.
Later I look back and I think,man, I should never have agreed
to that as a playoff becausethat is not disc golf.
I can't believe I, you know.
Later I look back and I think,man, I should never have agreed
to that as a playoff becausethat is not disc golf.
But that's how it worked outand that was a really important
lesson for me.
You know to to just you know torealize how scary that can be

(47:17):
to be putting in front of thatmany people at once, and so that
was kind of that was definitelya thing that affected me, and I
had to figure out how to getthrough that in the coming years
.
So that's kind of what drove mesome of just read some of this,
some of the Bob Rotella, andthen also I've got a couple
other authors that I kind ofrely on to get me through kind

(47:40):
of this mental, these mentalstruggles.

Speaker 3 (47:42):
I can't even imagine what it's like nowadays with the
camera guys running around andall that I mean.
How do you, how do you dealwith that?

Speaker 1 (47:51):
Man same ways.
I just try to work through it.
You know it's it's not easy, um, um.
I'm not one of those peoplethat really, um, thrives in that
kind of environment.
So it's been, you know, I'vehad to kind of run counter to it
, to my personality, to try tofind ways to mitigate the
effects of those types ofpressures.

(48:12):
So, yeah, I think it really isinteresting the way the
personality differences apply inthis golf for this particular
thing.
You know, I know women thatplay way better when they have a
camera on them, um, and then,like me, I, if I play good when

(48:33):
I have a camera on me, I'm like,oh my gosh, I did it.
Yes.

Speaker 2 (48:36):
You know, it's like a it's like an anomaly almost you
know it's like, oh great, youknow they.

Speaker 1 (48:41):
When, the when the TJ calls me and says, hey, we want
to put you on a feature card,half the time I think, oh no,
nope, don't do that, that's notgoing to help, I'll earn my way,
yeah, I mean, I've definitelysaid no before, so they actually
call you and ask if you want tobe on the feature card Like I

(49:04):
don't know how any of that partruns, so the pro tour has.
So there's different entities,right?
The pro tour has their methodwhere they pick the feature
cards based upon these differentcriteria at each week.
Um, it's usually like previouswinner, um, maybe somebody who
won, so the person who won thistournament the year before, the
person who just won the lasttournament, a sponsor player,

(49:29):
maybe two sponsor players, andthen they're going to do like,
sometimes the media gets a pick,sometimes they try to add a
local player to the featurecards.
There's like this wholecriteria, but the PDGA does a
little bit different and I thinkthere's something.
I could be wrong about this,but I think that there's
something in the rules that saythat the players have to agree

(49:51):
to be on the feature cards.
Okay, um, for the first round,because they don't pick them
like after that.
You know, you don't really havea choice.
If you're on the lead card,you're going to get filmed, but
the first round they.
They allow players to todecline if they don't want to be
on it.
And that's from that's players,that's my players' requests.
In the past They've asked hey,I don't want to play on the

(50:11):
feature card.
Can you please not put me onthat?

Speaker 3 (50:15):
That's really neat.
Actually, that's really neat.

Speaker 1 (50:19):
Yeah, so they're trying to be player-centric
there.

Speaker 3 (50:22):
Yeah, so now you played this big out of town
tournament and you came insecond.
If I'm following this right waswas that the turning?

Speaker 1 (50:31):
correct yeah was?

Speaker 3 (50:32):
was that the turning point where you thought, hey,
let's go on tour, that's, that'sa good idea?

Speaker 1 (50:39):
not, quite not quite um.

Speaker 3 (50:40):
I was still working my whole time I was still not
quite.

Speaker 1 (50:43):
Yeah, no, with almost winning.
An amateur event was not goingto be it for me.
Yeah, that wouldn't have beenenough, for sure, but it was
enough for me to realize that,you know, I probably shouldn't
play FA1 for too much longer, ifat all anymore.
Right, because I just playedagainst 18 women who've been
playing way longer than me, andI beat all of them except for

(51:07):
the one lady who has beenplaying for like 20 years, and I
was outdriving them all youknow.
So, like it was clear, you know, but I also hadn't played
against any pro women.
I had no idea what pro womencould even do.
I'd never even seen a pro womanthrow.
So the St Louis Open, so thistournament happened in April and
the St Louis Open was in May,and so that's how I began here.

Speaker 3 (51:30):
About what year is this?
This is 2008.

Speaker 1 (51:32):
2008.
It's about six months after Ipicked up the Frisbee for the
first time, and so then we'replaying the St Louis Open.
I'm signed up in FA1 by myselfbecause there's no other women,
and Barrett White and TavishSanders are signed up in pro,
and so Barrett's from Chicagoarea and Tavish is from Kansas

(51:54):
City, so like five hours andfour hours away.
So they travel all the way herebecause they're friends at the
TD too.
They're Barrett's ultimate.
Tavish is friends with Barrett.
I find out that there's thiswhole crew of women who play
Actually, team penetration isprobably the best description of
that but there's a whole groupof women that try to meet up and

(52:15):
play.
So these two women converge onSt Louis to play against each
other, and so the St Louis TDpaid the difference in my entry
fee to play FPO with them.
Oh, that's cool.
So it kind of sponsored me intothe pro division, right, and I
was like, oh okay, because I wasgoing to play by myself.
I didn't know what the heck wasthe.

(52:35):
I just thought this was what Iwas supposed to do.

Speaker 3 (52:38):
So you got kind of volatile.

Speaker 1 (52:41):
Well, they kind of yeah, maybe that's what their
purpose was.
I think they were just tryingto encourage me to like, hey,
you should just move up to prothese girls, you know this is
where you belong, so pay theextra entry fee for me.
I said, oh, thank you, you know, and I did.
And then I ended up gettingsecond out of three.
Um, I, the winner, barrett, shebeat me by 25 strokes or

(53:06):
something over three rounds, andI beat Tavish by one or
something like that.
It was like it came down to itUm, and I didn't cash.
They only cashed out one ofthree then, or whatever, and but
, but I did beat one woman andso I felt like, even though I
got beat by 20 plus strokes bythe winner, I felt like there's

(53:28):
space for me.
If this lady's playing, if thislady Tavish is playing pro and
I was competitive with her, thenthis is probably where I belong
.
And then, you know, through thattime I became friends with her,
and I became friends withBarrett, and then I learned
about this whole group in Iowawomen who played, and so then I
started that summer.
I was a teacher, right, so Ihad a month and a half off

(53:50):
before I had to get back forvolleyball.
And so I spent that summerplaying a bunch of tournaments
within like six hours of my homearea and played a bunch of
tournaments and won some of thembut met a bunch of the women
that year.
Um, and then the end of theyear rolls around and I still
have like a week and a halfbefore I have to be back for

(54:10):
volleyball and I see thatthere's this tournament called
the vibram open.
It's all the way on the otherside of the country.
I, I'm in the middle of thecountry, this is all the way in
Massachusetts, at this placecalled Maple Hill.
Oh.

(54:31):
And there was this one, I think.
They had spots for 18 women andthere were 17 spots filled and
at this time, the Vibram Openwas the first year that it
wasn't called MSDDC.
So the Massachusetts State DiscGolf Championships, which is a
really, really popular event inthe Northeast back in the day,

(54:53):
it's like some of the firstvideo rounds are from the MSDDC,
which is what Steve and ToddDodge kind of made happen.
They're the original media.
This is great.
It's great.
If you watch that stuff, it'scrazy.
Anyway, um, this was the firstyear that it wasn't called mscbc
.
They had changed it to thevibram open and it was happening
, uh, exclusively at maple hill,I believe, even though the

(55:17):
pyramids course was also.
Um, we were, we were alsocamping at the pyramids course,
which is a quarter mile oreighth of a mile away from maple
hill.
Um, it wasn't part of the mscbc.
The Pyramids course, which is aquarter mile or eighth of a
mile away from Maple Hill, itwasn't part of the MSCDC, the
Vibram Open, for the first timeever.
Anyway, I get this idea that I'mgoing to go fly out to play
this tournament.
I call the TD, which is SteveDodge, and I say hey, steve, I'm

(55:39):
Sarah.
I saw that there's a spot openin this tournament, but I see
that you're supposed to have toqualify for it.
I haven't qualified, but thetournament's almost happening.
Are you going to fill that spotor can I have it?
He says you can have it and Isaid, okay, cool.
So I said do you know anybody?
I can stay with there.
This is definitely the timewhere we're sleeping on couches
and floors.
So he said, oh, you can staywith me.

(56:00):
He said, oh, you can stay withme.
So I was like oh, okay, cool.
So I get in the tournament, Isign up, I book a flight to
Massachusetts.
This is the first time I'veever even tried to fly, but I'm
just trying to do this lastlittle thing.
I'm super into it, I'm superstoked.
So I get a flight, I take theflight out there, I take the

(56:23):
subway to the bus station, Itake a Greyhound out to
Worcester and then I take a cabto Steve Dodge's front door and
there was my disc golf bag andeverything and I knock on the
door and he's like hey.
I'm Steve who's this lady.

(56:44):
I was like hey, I'm Sarah.
I was like you said I could stayhere.
And he's like hey, I'm Steve.
I was like hey, I'm Sarah.
I was like you said.
You said I could stay here.
And he's like oh, oh, yeah,sure, he's like.
And he, he takes me upstairs tothis.
He takes me upstairs and Idon't know you probably don't
know the name.
You may not know the name Um,angela, um, chick-free.
Her name is spelled very, veryweird, but you say it chick-free

(57:08):
.
Um, she was a us champion atthat time and she was one of the
top ballers.
And he takes me upstairs.
I, I know of her.
I do not know her, I just knowof her.
I maybe played against her,like, but not on the same card
and whatever.
She's super intense, I ain'tmessing around with her.
She scared me actually at thispoint.
So we walk upstairs and she'slaying in this twin bed reading

(57:31):
and Steve introduces me to herand says, hey, I figured you
guys could share this room andthere's one bed in it.
And I'm like, and then heleaves and I look at Angela and
I go, hey, I'll just sleep onthe couch.
And so I went down.
I slept on the couch in hisliving room that week and not

(57:52):
tried to share a twin bed withAngela Chick-fil-A.

Speaker 3 (57:57):
Welcome to disc golf.

Speaker 1 (57:58):
Anyway, yep, yep.
Well, I end up getting ninth inthat tournament, which is the
last cash, and so I beat.
Now I just beat nine FPOs.
So I'm like, okay, here we go,this is.
And then, and also, moreimportantly, so I've, I've been,

(58:20):
I've been validated that I justcashed at a pro event.
I may have, I just cashed at apro event.
I probably cashed at regionalevents before that I'd won, like
the Mid-America Open.
I'd won a couple events, cashedat other events, but now I had
just gone to one of the bigevents and I cashed.
So that told me that, like,okay, I can do this.
And I see these 18 other womendoing it too, or so I think

(58:46):
they're doing it.

Speaker 2 (58:47):
That's a key right there.

Speaker 1 (58:51):
So anyway, that kind of solidifies that, that vibrant
experience, it solidifies it.
For you know my physicalabilities, I think I'm able to
do that.
But then it also I meet thetour.
You know we play double discorduntil the wee hours of the
night.
There's a keg on Saturday nightwe're playing beer pong and

(59:13):
flip cup and doing keg standsand like it is a party.
It's not how that is now.
It used to be a lot more uh likeevening activities.
So anyway, um, so I I knewthese are my people, this is
what I want to do.

(59:33):
I'm, I think I could besuccessful in it.
So I've kind of resolved atthis point that this is what I'm
gonna do, but I'm stillteaching.
So I go back, I go back um tost lou after that and I teach
for a full another year.

Speaker 3 (59:47):
So the Vibram thing at Maple Hill, that was the one
that was like, yeah, you knowwhat I could do this Like this
is my life.

Speaker 1 (59:55):
Exactly, that was it 2008,.
It was basically one year,almost to the day after I had
picked the Frisbee up.

Speaker 3 (01:00:05):
Wow, you know, almost to the day after I had picked
the frisbee up.
So what did you do to practiceand prepare for the tour?
And and like, what was yourtraining routine like?
Did you get really seriousabout it and do focus training
or did you just keep playing ona regular basis?

Speaker 1 (01:00:18):
at that point I was still working full-time, so I
was still playing on a regularbasis, um, and not and not
necessarily doing field work or,you know, doing a lot of extra
training outside of just playingcasual rounds and playing
tournaments and leagues andstuff like that.
Yeah, probably did that foranother full year and then that
summer, that next summer of 2009, I went on the road and I

(01:00:42):
played the tour the entire.

Speaker 3 (01:00:44):
Thing.

Speaker 1 (01:00:47):
Yeah, and then, once I got to the fall, I came back
and taught for one more year.
But that year I came back andtaught 2009 to 2010.
That year I stopped coachingvolleyball, actually.
So that you could so I gave upthat after actually, so that you

(01:01:07):
could play more after work.
Yes, that's right, because thatyear where I was coaching and I
had discovered that I loveddisc golf, that year was I was
also finishing my master'sdegree, oh goodness.
So that was just a lot, yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:01:23):
We kind of know what that's like.

Speaker 1 (01:01:28):
Yeah, I would also kind of play a little bit of
volleyball doubles.
I still was like I had, youknow, a bunch of like my age
friends that we'd play doubles,sometimes like grass doubles, on
the weekends, or I go play likea big indoor tournament, uh,
like in chicago, um yeah, so Iwas still even playing
competitive volleyball a littlebit at that point.
It was just too many things.
And so then that after I wenton tour for that whole summer of
2009, I gave up really playingvolleyball and coaching

(01:01:50):
volleyball to focus more onplaying disc golf every day at
that point.
So then I could play disc golfalmost every day, except for
when I had class.
Or I'd just go play disc golffor like 45 minutes and then I'd
rush to class, whatever it was,or I'd just go play disc golf
for like 45 minutes and then I'drush to class.

Speaker 3 (01:02:07):
Whatever it was, it's so addicting because even now
we'll play three rounds in a dayfor a tournament and Jenny will
be like I want to keep playing.

Speaker 1 (01:02:16):
Yeah, me too, Totally .
I remember those days.
They don't exist in my lifeanymore, but I do remember those
days.
It's a beautiful thing.
So that year that I reallyfocused up and then I went on
tour.
I quit my job at the end of2010, that spring, but actually
I had the full intention of Iquit my job and moved to

(01:02:37):
Charlotte because I wanted tolive in a Mecca of disc golf.
That's important and I wantedmy winters.
I hadn't actually decided Iwasn't going to teach anymore at
that point.
I was actually just going tomove areas because I didn't want
to be in St Louis anymore.
It's too cold in the winter.
I needed to still be able totrain in the winter.
So I wanted to live in an areathat had great courses and good

(01:02:58):
weather.
So I moved there and I did thatover that summer with the
intention of coming back in thefall and getting a teaching job
in North Carolina.
Well, that year, on the road in2010, I had started having some
success and so I stayed on theroad that fall and didn't come

(01:03:23):
back to go get a teaching job.
And then I was like, oh, youknow, okay, I'll just sub.
So I was like trying to getinto the sub.
Like, once that winter happened, I was back in Charlotte and I
was like thinking, okay, maybeI'll just like have a sub job.
But then, you know, I was sofar into the school year at that
point I had to do these.
I missed all the sub training.
Um, so then I just got a jobwaiting tables.
So that winter I waited tables.

(01:03:44):
And then, 2011, I went on tourearlier cause I didn't have to
wait for the school year to endand I was able to hit the early
season stuff.
And then I won my firstnational tour that year and I
won like two more that same year.
So then I was like, oh, I'm notgoing to teach anymore, I'm not
going to get a job teaching inthe off season, because you know

(01:04:07):
you had to be there from Marchuntil October and the school
season you know school was, youknow you had.
You only got two and a halfmonths or something.
So I decided, well, I guess I'mnot going to do that and then.
So then I found other jobs inthe wintertime, just random
stuff, whether it was waitingtables or I did Christmas.

Speaker 3 (01:04:21):
I put up Christmas lights for many years, yeah, so
it was only it's only been theselast couple of years that I
haven't actually taken a job inthe off season to cover those
expenses of just like existing.
So now that you're able tofocus on disc golf full time,
what's your training like?

(01:04:42):
What's your work schedule like?
What kind of things do you doon a regular basis?
Tell us about the behind thescenes stuff.

Speaker 1 (01:04:50):
Yeah, so, um, in an ideal world, you know, usually
we're competing Friday, Saturday, sunday, sometimes Thursday,
friday, saturday, sunday,sometimes four days, um, and
most of the time it's back toback weeks.
You know, I have started totake uh try to take at least one
week and off in the month sothat my body has time to recover
and so then I have time to kindof catch up on things that just

(01:05:13):
get kind of pushed to thewayside throughout the busy
weeks.
So, anyway, you're coming fromjust competing.
I usually take Monday off butusually get a good gym session
in.
So I do a lot of rowing likethe erg machine.
So it works like 85% of yourmuscles.
It's a really efficient way.
I just get on there and sprintfor 15, 20 minutes On the rowing

(01:05:37):
machine.
That usually gets mycardiovascular up really good.
Also.
It's really good.
All the muscles involved arereally great for disc golf.
It's like upper back and thenglutes and legs really heavy.
Also you're getting a lot ofcore stability also.
I really like to do that.

(01:05:57):
Then I usually do a shouldercircuit to keep my rotator cuff
healthy.
Then I get a massage.
That's my hard trainingschedule.
I do that like three, four timesa week, pretty much every other
day.
But otherwise I don't reallythrow a lot on Monday.
Maybe if I'm traveling through,if it's a long drive, like

(01:06:20):
let's see, it's like six toeight hours halfway through I'll
stop at a short course andmaybe play an all backhand round
just to kind of move my body.
But otherwise I try to takeMonday off and then Tuesday,
wednesday, thursday assumingit's a three-day tournament I'm
going to get up early in themorning, play my round, probably

(01:06:43):
between 9 and 1, 9 and noon,noon, have some lunch and then
in the afternoon I'm probablyeither doing some work on like
in the field if I need to workon a shot or I might be doing
some putting, I might be doingsome approach, I might be doing
some administrative work, umyeah, and then just kind of

(01:07:04):
normal evenings.
I make, make food, you know, umkind of relax in the evenings
and get up and do it all againthe next morning.

Speaker 3 (01:07:12):
So you're in the gym Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday,
and then playing tournaments.

Speaker 1 (01:07:17):
Actually I do.
It's usually like Monday,wednesday, friday, Sunday.

Speaker 3 (01:07:21):
Okay, yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:07:24):
I actually I work because of the way my workouts
go.
I don't worry about it being atournament day.
I do it also after, because Iplay all my rounds in the
morning.
Friday, after my round, I'll goto the gym and hit a nice
little workout.
Depending on how I feel, Imight tone it down because I
have control on the erg.

(01:07:45):
If I'm not feeling great, Imight do a lighter row.
Control on the erg, you know, ifI'm not feeling great, I might
do a lighter row.
If I'm feeling like I have alot of energy, especially on a
Sunday or a Monday because oflike I don't have to be, I can
work out a little bit extra Um,then I'll kind of I'll gas
myself.
There's also, you know, I'm I'mtrying to work in a few more
things, but right now,realistically, it's really just
the erg and then a shouldercircuits.

(01:08:07):
I'm trying to work in someother stuff, like I need to work
in some balance stuff.
But I need to work in a fewother things.
This year I think, as I'mgetting older, it takes a lot
more maintenance to keep my bodyhealthy.

Speaker 3 (01:08:23):
Yeah, we're learning that too.
Yeah, it's like when you'reyoung, you go to the gym to get
better, and then, when you'reolder, you go to the gym, just
so you don't die young.

Speaker 1 (01:08:29):
you go to the gym to get better, and then when you're
older, you go to the gym justso you don't die.
Yeah, yes, correct.
Yeah, yep, you can.
Just to try to maybe, maybe,maintain a bit of what you used
to have.
Yeah, yeah, yeah so losingbattle, but that is this what it
is, what it is so what?

Speaker 3 (01:08:46):
that first year on tour, like, what was that like
for you?
Like when you, when you fullycommitted to it and said I'm
hitting the road, jack, what'sthat like?

Speaker 1 (01:08:58):
well it's.
It's pretty scary, um, but it'skind of exciting too.
You know, for me I think Ithink it can be a lot of
different things for differentpeople, again, like nuance and
personality.
I think there's a lot of thingsthere.
Um, for me it was exciting, um,I was just stoked to get out
there.
I had, I had already had someexperience with you know what
practice rounds should look likeand what it takes to train and

(01:09:21):
stuff like that, from justknowing all the tour players and
having spent other the othercouple summers out there doing
it, both regionally and thennationally the year before.
So you know it was a bit lonelyat first.
Probably it's hard to find yourfriend groups and try to figure
that out.
But you know, you kind ofsettle in and find the people

(01:09:43):
who are your people and kind ofrely on them a little bit to
play practice rounds with andyou know, just to create a
community with out there on theroad, which is really important.
And it is kind of hardsometimes to establish yourself.
I know some of the Masters.
I've noticed a lot of theMasters players seem to struggle
to establish community groupsout on the road.

(01:10:04):
There's a lot of that happeningright now with the Masters Tour
that we're trying to kind ofcreate opportunities for masters
players to get out there andcompete a lot, and I think that
that has been a real challengethat we're trying to solve this
year freaking awesome.

Speaker 3 (01:10:20):
Sorry, kind of went on a tangent there.

Speaker 1 (01:10:21):
No, no, no, I I'm just, I'm like yeah, for me yeah
, I'm just like.

Speaker 3 (01:10:26):
so, like you know, captivated by you know the
thingsated by, you know thethings that you're saying.
Cause, like in our age, likegoing on tour, like that's like
fantasy land, like it'd be niceto happen, but I don't know if
we're going to have the time toget to that level.
So it's, it's kind of cool tohear a war stories.

Speaker 1 (01:10:47):
Yeah, I mean it's it's, it's got its own set of
challenges.
Yes, I mean it does seem it'svery, it's a very sexy way to
like live your life right now, Ithink, and especially when
covid happened and like van life, van lifers like exploded.
Disc golfers were van lifersbefore.
Van lifers were cool yep andyou know it was a it's.

(01:11:07):
It's just, it's a necessary,necessary way to live because of
just the.
You know the way that we haveto be in different places all
the time.
You know, every week we're in adifferent city.
So to have some kind ofsemblance of stability, you know
, having a van that is somewhatlike a home is the only way, the

(01:11:34):
only way you can.
I mean it I.
I first toured in my uh 19.
It was like it was actuallylike a 2001 lexus es 300 that I
got after it had been wreckedout after an accident.
I think I got it for a couplethousand.
I got it for a couple thousandbucks from a friend of mine and
it had a lot of miles on it.
I think it probably had like200 000 miles on it when I got
it um, but it was it was a tankman.
It ran good and I just stuffedthat thing full all my stuff and

(01:11:56):
I had a tent and air mattresses, an air mattress and uh like
all my bedding and just stuff,like you know, even like
coloring books and like dumbstuff.
You're like I want my hobbieswith me or whatever.
Um, and like my, actually oneof my first nights out on the
road, I only made I didn't makeit as far as I wanted to get to

(01:12:19):
and I I was going to sleep in inmy car.
I was going to sleep in my carat at the Walmart and I like
started I didn't have a reallygreat way of sleeping in my car
at the time, um, so I just triedto put the seat back and I'm
like trying to sleep and I triedfor like hours and I just
cannot fall asleep, even thoughI'm exhausted, right, I just
cannot fall asleep.

(01:12:40):
So I say, screw it.
I go and I put, I set my tent upbehind the Walmart at like
midnight and like I just set itup in some grass behind the
Walmart and I like I finallyfall asleep and then, like I
don't know what time it was, butthere's this flashlight flies.
It was like.
Then somebody's yelling at melike, hey, what are you doing?

(01:13:02):
I wake up, I got my.
I got a knife in my hand too,cause I'm a little bit, I too.
Because I'm a little bit, Imean I have to have a knife with
me right?
I'm like a, like a vulnerablefemale camping in a tent behind
the walmart.
Now, in 2000 uh, whatever yearthis is 2010 it is not that
normal to see tents randomlybehind a walmart.

(01:13:23):
I know, now nobody wouldquestion it.
Um, but at that time that waskind of weird, um.
So, anyway, this like workercame out and was like hey, you
can't be here.
And I like poked my head out.
It was like I'm like, it's likeoh, sorry I was just trying to
get some sleep, like I was likeI'll be gone in the morning.

(01:13:43):
I promise he's like all right,well, you like my boss comes in
at seven or something, I don'tknow what it was.
Anyway, I got a few more hoursof sleep after that interaction
and then packed my stuff up andgot out of there that early.
That was great knife in hand.
Look out, I'm a disc golfer well, I wasn't going to, you know,

(01:14:03):
but I was going to be able toprotect myself if I needed to.
Anyway, yeah, that's a greatstory.

Speaker 3 (01:14:08):
Mostly we're sleeping on couches, but having that
space like my vehicle if Ineeded to.

Speaker 1 (01:14:10):
Anyway, yeah, that's a great story.
Mostly we're sleeping oncouches, but having that space
like my vehicle, it was so like,after doing that for a couple
of years in that vehicle, it hadbecome very tiresome to move in
and out of my host's houseevery single week.
You know, I'd like bring in allthis stuff and then repack them
, repack the um the vehicleevery monday and then, you know,

(01:14:33):
drive into the next spot, getto their house, unpack.
You know, sometimes we're likeI set up in their living room.
You know like, uh, so, andeventually I like I had a queen
bed and I had a mattress, topperand a full, full duvet, a full
setup.
Oh yeah, eventually I like hadlike a whole nice bed set up.

(01:14:54):
Um, that would take up a full,clean space in my host, my poor
host, um, they were so kind, uh,let us disrupt their lives for
an entire week, so that.
But that got really tiresome,you know.
And so the prospect of beingable to just drive somewhere and
then just like get out of thevehicle and go play, then just

(01:15:16):
get back in the vehicle andsleep without having to do a
bunch of stuff, moving in andout all the time and even if you
know, uh, hotel rooms would bethe same, you know, moving in
and out of a hotel room everyonce in a while we would splurge
or we'd have to get a hotelroom because we couldn't find a
host.
And you get one of those likeextended stay joints where you
know you've got crackheads asneighbor neighbors and you have
to pay 20 bucks for the coffeemaker whatever my gosh the

(01:15:41):
coffee maker's extra yeah itdoesn't.
Yeah, I know, if you want plates, it's gonna be ten dollars or
whatever you know, so I actuallystarted carrying around, like
you know, things to cook withand like my own pots and pans or
like just trying to figure outhow to live on the road with the
resources that we had.
Um, but then I was able to.

(01:16:01):
Eventually I got out of thatcar because my parents actually
made me.
They were like you're notdriving that thing around
anymore it got up to like 300and I think it was like 350 000
miles.
After a couple of after I don'tknow however many years I had it
, but my dad was like you're notdriving that thing around the
country anymore and I was like,okay, like, but I'm gonna need

(01:16:23):
you to go sign on the loan, so,so anyway that's awesome yeah,
so, anyway.
So I ended up getting into likea little suv.
But I loved a little peppylittle thing, had a little
hatchback so I could sit in itafter tournaments under the rain
and not get all rained on, wecould hang out.
You know it was a sweet littlecar, um, but I had I probably

(01:16:45):
paid too much for it, um, andafter like three or four years I
realized that I really wanted avan.
This SUV wasn't cutting it.

Speaker 3 (01:16:54):
Like a big van or like a minivan type of thing.

Speaker 1 (01:16:57):
Like well, I was actually thinking like so, nate
and Val Doss, they were still onthe road, I think about that
time, and they had had the bigblue.
It was a tall Mercedes Spr, asprinter van, oh and um, and at
this time like so we're talking,this is like 2013, 2014,
something like that I've been onthe road now for four or five

(01:17:20):
years, um, in these other twovehicles.
Well, I really wanted a van andso I went to the like, and also
ford and um Ram had juststarted marketing these vans
that they were going to make,that were going to be a
competitor to the Mercedes ones.
So I was like stoked.
I was like, ah, well, I triedthe.

(01:17:41):
I had tested the Ram and Ididn't really like how it felt.
And I was like I want the Ford,the Ford's, coming out.
I had done all the research.
The Ford is the one to get.
I'm going to get the Ford.
Well, I go to try to get theFord.
And I'm upside down on my loanbecause I put so many dang miles
on this Hyundai, on this littleTucson, that I was driving
around.
This is the last UV, so I'mlike dang it All right, well, I

(01:18:02):
just I'm going to drive thislonger until I can afford, cause
I was going to have to put tenthousand dollars more down on
this van to try to get it andthat was like that was outside
my budget, so I was gonna waitand whatever.
So then that year was 2015 andI'm playing pretty good, coming
up to the world championshipsand my car gets totaled on the

(01:18:24):
way to the world's the finalround the final round, the van
the hyundai.
I don't have the van yet.
I wanted to get into the vanbut I couldn't get into the van
because I didn't have the moneyand I was upside down on my
lonesome.
I put so many miles on my cardriving around the country.
So, yeah, so I, uh, I'mactually leading the world
championships in 2015.
I have like a.

(01:18:46):
I'm like I'm like seven strokesahead.
I'm way ahead, actuallysurprisingly, for like we're
only like three rounds in.
I'm headed to the course.
Um, I'm stopped in thisconstruction traffic.
I don't really know what'sstopping us, but we're just this
line of traffic and so I'm juststopped there, looking ahead,
like what the heck's going on?
Am I gonna be late to my teatime?
I had left in plenty of time,but you know, I didn't know what
this was hold up was.

(01:19:07):
Well, I'm looking ahead.
All of a sudden I just get.
I get rear-ended.
The guy's going like 40 milesan hour or something oh man I
don't know how I yeah, dudesmoked me.
Yeah, he pushes me, so he pushesme so hard.
Um, I end up getting pushedinto oncoming traffic and I get
hit by this huge constructionvehicle.
So I get rear-ended, my airbagsgo off, I kind of like get

(01:19:32):
flung forwards and then I gethit by this construction vehicle
and my car.
I hit my head on the.
That's when I hit my head onthe car and then I like the car
spins in traffic like I don'tknow eight times or something,
and then my car is just totaledand I'm still trying to get to
worlds, yeah, so like I and Ilike it was dude, it was crazy.

Speaker 3 (01:19:57):
It's all for the cause.

Speaker 1 (01:19:58):
So I, um, I can't even get out of the car and it's
smoking.
I'm like scared because I thinkthe car is going to like
something like somebody's onfire.
Then I realized that it's so.
I'm like panic.
I can't get out the doorsbecause they're locked, they're
shut from the, from beingsmashed, and I'm like the smoke.
I'm like, ah, there's likenight, there's like nightmare

(01:20:19):
stuff happening right now.
Um, eventually somebody getsthe door open.
I climb out.
I'm sitting on the side of theroad.
The cops come, do all theevaluations.
The other dude is really messedup.
He is groaning, he's likecrawling out of the vehicle,
laying on the ground.
The ambulance takes him awayimmediately.
Um, I'm getting checked out bythe ambulance.

(01:20:39):
I have like this gash on myhead, um, from hitting from that
second hit, um, and I'm tellingthem I gotta go win a world
title.
He's like ma'am, you got to gowin a world title.
He's like ma'am, you need to goto the hospital.
I'm like I'm not going to go tothe hospital, I need to.
I got to.
I had on the side of the road Ifound Sean Sinclair's phone

(01:21:00):
number, who is one of theofficials for Worlds, and they
send, and the PDGA sends SteveGans to come pick me up.
I don't know how I was able totell him where I was.
I found some cross streets andgot him, and so Steve Gans is on
his way to come pick me up.
I'm trying to talk theambulance into letting me go.
I'm like dude, I'm fine, likeyou know.
I just, yeah, it's a littlegash, it's fine, you know.

(01:21:20):
Whatever you know, I'm on mybody, where my body works, fine.
So I have to sign this likewaiver, like you refuse medical
attention, um, and then Stevegets, finally, gets there and
picks me up and we're headed tothe course.
I'm still I'm probably going tobe late, but I still haven't
quite.
They still haven't teed off yet.

(01:21:40):
So I'm going going.
He's like, and he's like, youknow, we can just go to the
hospital if you need to, youknow.
And I'm looking at him likewhat, like no, like oh, oh, and
then, and then it dawns on me,like, then I have a slight
moment of clarity.
I'm like, oh, I just got into amajor accident.
Maybe I should be going to thehospital, um, but then I'm just

(01:22:04):
like no, you know, I'm like youknow, and then I'm kind of
playing to like dude, I don'teven know now, because I just I
just talked all these peopleinto like the fact I've got to
go win a world title, I'm justlike the Olympics of Frisbee,
I've got to get to this courseand yeah, so we end up going to
the course, even though he kindof brings that little question

(01:22:24):
into my head like, oh yeah, am Ibeing really stupid right now
by not going to get my headchecked out right now?
That's the whole reason youshowed up is because Probably.
Yeah, I mean, this is why I'meven doing this, because my head
is not good anyway.
No, so we get there.

(01:22:47):
I have missed.
I've taken par plus four on twoholes.
I missed two of the first holes, so I'm now eight strokes worse
and I'm whatever.
I end up playing around andplaying pretty good.
I'm still on the lead card.
We end up playing the end up.
You know, the tournamentcontinues on.
I'm like losing it mentally.
Every time I see one of myfriends, like they see me on the

(01:23:09):
course and they like come up togive me a hug, and then I just
start bawling.
You know, it's like reallyemotional.
Um, but I ended up, um, likeyou know, doing okay, these next
couple of rounds we go into thefinals.
I'm, I'm backed by a couple orsomething, uh, I'm, I don't even
know, I don't remember how itwas, but I ended up losing by
two strokes in the end and forwhat would have been my second

(01:23:32):
world title.
And Paige Pearson ends upwinning and she gives me their
trophy.
At the end she's like, oh, youshould have won.
Blah, blah, blah.
Really heart-wrenching moment,but that's the one that got away
.

Speaker 3 (01:23:49):
If that's the one that's got away, I feel like you
have a fairly based reason forit, Like holy cow.

Speaker 1 (01:23:57):
Yeah, I mean I had opportunities throughout those
couple rounds after the accidentto take hold and to still win,
and I didn't you know.

Speaker 2 (01:24:09):
Did you ever?
Go to the doctor and getchecked.
I'm just wondering.

Speaker 1 (01:24:13):
I actually did go that night.
Um, I I promised somebody Iwould, so I did and I got and
they didn't do anything.
They, they, the wound hadalready kind of started healing
so they didn't want to reopen itto stitch it.
So I have kind of a weird scarright there from that.
Um.
But yeah, they checked out,like they, they checked my head

(01:24:35):
and stuff and they said that Ishould be all right.

Speaker 3 (01:24:37):
So yeah, I should be all right.
Yep, she's a disc golfer theydidn't.

Speaker 1 (01:24:43):
They didn't have, like I guess, the signs of
concussion or whatever that youneed to watch out for so that's
good.

Speaker 3 (01:24:50):
So being out there on tour, uh, how do you first kind
of double-faceted question.
First of all, competition wise,how do you take care of your
mental state and what kind ofthings do you do to stay up with
that and also with being ontour?
It can be very how do you dealwith the isolation?

Speaker 1 (01:25:12):
Well, I mean, I think the isolation for sure is a
thing.
It's a hard thing to deal with.
You know, I find solace in myfriends, my partner, chris.
He's on the road with me so healso caddies for me.
So it's really.
I think it'd be really reallyhard to be out here by yourself.
I did it for some periods of mytouring, periods of time, but a

(01:25:36):
lot of times I've had a partnerin the vehicle with me, because
that's how to deal with it andI think people who really go by
themselves, they really have tohave a support system of touring
players that they hang out with.
If you're just trying to dothis by yourself alone, I don't
think it's going to work.

Speaker 3 (01:25:54):
So I imagine as you travel around with the tour you
start to become a little bit ofa family.

Speaker 1 (01:26:01):
Yes, yes, 100% yeah, and there's a lot of different
people kind of want to act likeit's like high school, you know,
like all these little cliques,so cliquey, you know, especially
if you're not in whateverclique you think you should be
in or whatever, or the cliqueyou wish you were in.
I think people kind of go like,oh, it's so high school, and I
think in some ways it definitelyis, especially when you've got

(01:26:22):
a bunch of late teens, early 20sfolks who aren't too far
removed from some of thoseenvironments.
Uh yeah, I think it does kindof it does.
It could get a little bitclicky, but that's also just
human nature, you know, to findpeople who are like you and be
friends with them, and you canonly have so much capacity to be
friends with so many people,you know you can only your

(01:26:44):
circle can only be so big toreally take care of those that
are in it.
So I think you know that's justfinding your tribe, and if you
don't have one, I think thatthat could be really hard.

Speaker 3 (01:27:00):
So and then, on the other side of that competition
wise, how?
How do you take care of yourmental state and your emotional
state?
Like to maximize performanceand, you know, stay confident
out there while you're goingthrough the stresses of having
to be in a different place eachweek, you never know where you
know.
Sometimes you might not knowwhere you're sleeping, who
you're going to be with, like,what's that like?

Speaker 1 (01:27:20):
yeah, it's really hard.
It's really hard.
It's probably the hardest partabout the game being on tour.
I would say it's one of thosethings.
Don't fix it unless it's broke,right.
So if you're in a good spot, Ithink just go with it.
You know, continue just to dowhat you're doing and try to
keep yourself in that mentalstate.

(01:27:40):
But you know everything that wedo affects it.
You know whether it's a win ora lose, or whether we win, win a
tournament, or we almost win it, or we play really, really bad
or play mediocre, you know allof that is factored into, kind
of our subconscious um, andwhether we like it or not, you
know it has an effect.
So, um, I think it's just aconstant.

(01:28:03):
It's a constant battle to tryto put yourself back into a
position where you can be atpeace with what's going on
around you.
And I think I will just go aheadand say this when it comes to
being a female, you know ourmental state is variable.

(01:28:24):
The way our hormones changethroughout our menstrual cycle
has um had a huge effect on ourlevels, our confidence, our uh,
our emotional state, our abilityto um self-soothe, our
abilities to manage, um, youknow, high stress situations.
That is one of the really,really difficult on the female

(01:28:46):
side of things.
Um, you know cause, because youknow it's just constantly
changing.
So I'm always aware I hateplaying a tournament right
before my period, I hate playinga turn on my period, um, but
you don't really have a choice,you know.
I mean you kind of do I couldsay up, nope, not playing it
bleeding um, but I, you figure,you know I've played sometimes

(01:29:10):
I've played OK and decent on myperiod.
Most of the time it's not thatway.
Usually it's a struggle andthat's just part of you know the
mental state.
I mean, you know we, ourhormones, affect so much of our
mood that even if you're awareof and I have been well aware of
it for many years um, the waymy mood is affected by my

(01:29:31):
hormones, and even though youknow it's happening, it's still
really hard to mitigate.

Speaker 2 (01:29:37):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:29:38):
So I do a lot of reading, a lot of reading.
Try to figure out how to putmyself.
A lot of reading podcasts Ilisten to.
Modern wisdom is probably oneof my favorites, outside of this
one, of course.
You're a fan of the show.

Speaker 2 (01:29:53):
Now she is.

Speaker 1 (01:29:54):
Yeah, totally.
Actually, I will be listeningto some of your past episodes
now, now that we've made aconnection, Because I think it's
really interesting to hear fromsome of the other my
contemporaries as well.
I'm going to definitely checkout the Scott Stokely one.
He's a really interestingcharacter.

(01:30:15):
Oh, he was wonderful Anyway soyeah, yeah, no, I've had a lot
of conversations with him, but Ialso love to hear him talk
about his experiences.

Speaker 3 (01:30:24):
Off topic.
We have a really awesome onecoming up that we haven't
released yet with Ryan Scaife.
Really awesome one coming upthat we haven't released yet
with, uh, ryan scaife.
He's a espn correspondent thatwell, former espn correspondent
that uh founded the hope intanzania uh organization and he
talks all about bringing discgolf to tanzania and making it a

(01:30:45):
national recognized sport and,like all these amazing things
and uh, we could, we canactually help connect you with
him if you want, if you wereinterested.

Speaker 1 (01:30:54):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:30:56):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:30:56):
Did you say he's a broadcaster?
Oh, my gosh, so I do somebroadcasting myself.
Um, and I would really love amentor for that.
Oh yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:31:05):
He'd be, he'd be great, and he's.
He's also like next doorneighbors with colin from
discraptor.

Speaker 2 (01:31:13):
Yeah, he moved over to oregon.

Speaker 1 (01:31:16):
So yeah, let's, let's get you guys connected, so I'll
make a note here yeah, I wouldlove to pick his brain, if he
has, if he would be willing ourheart was full after we did that
episode, so that was cool.

Speaker 3 (01:31:28):
Another one you might be interested in is um, the
next interview we have is, uh,joel turner from shot iq, and so
yeah, he was on, joe what's hisdeal?
Well, he was a sniperinstructor and he, yeah, and he

(01:31:48):
is big in the archery world andhe came up with this training
method of how to it's basicallykind of how to get over the yips
, but like blueprinted it reallyreally really well in a very
comprehensive way, so that likeCan you come out with that
episode before this next Friday?

(01:32:10):
Well, we record on thursday.
So no, he's on a, he's on joe.

Speaker 2 (01:32:16):
There's a joe rogan episode.
That, um, we could probablysend you the link.
But if you look up joel turnerfrom joe rogan, you'll get his
uh, okay, yeah, I'll find ityeah, and then he's got new
information that he's going tobe sharing on our podcast, so
you'll get his.
Okay, yeah, I'll find it.
Yeah, and then he's got newinformation that he's going to
be sharing on our podcast, soyou'll get a pretty good idea of
what he's about.

Speaker 3 (01:32:35):
Yeah, sweet, I heard it the first time and I'm like,
this is a game changer, I'm like.
And then we emailed him yeah, Iknow, we emailed him and we're
like, hey, what do you thinkabout disc golf?

Speaker 1 (01:32:52):
And he's like let's do it.
Wow, that's awesome, dude.
I'm so glad for you guys.
You're getting like those aresome really good, good uh,
guests, yeah, good information.

Speaker 3 (01:32:57):
Well, we, we want to do this for a living eventually,
so it's disc golf and podcastthat'd be great yeah.
So if you know if you knowanybody?
No, I'm just kidding, right, weshould get back on topic here.

Speaker 2 (01:33:11):
Hey, while we're off topic, our team disc golf
captain is a huge fan.
Can I have you give a quickshout out to Josh Larson?

Speaker 1 (01:33:28):
And he's your team.

Speaker 3 (01:33:29):
He's our Washington team disc golf and he's your
team he's our uh washington teamdisc golf and he's our team
captain and when I told him wewere gonna have you on the show,
he's like she's the one that Ibased my entire game off of.
Like that's how I learned howto throw side on is by watching
sarah hokum.

Speaker 2 (01:33:45):
Can I come on your, your podcast?

Speaker 3 (01:33:47):
he was trying to get on.
Say hi.

Speaker 1 (01:33:49):
Oh my gosh.
Okay, well, I can do that.
Huge shout out to Josh.
Yeah, huge shout out to JoshLarson, team Capitan Also.
I heard he has a really goodsidearm.

Speaker 2 (01:34:05):
Thank you.

Speaker 3 (01:34:05):
Sarah we're going to be laughing about that for a
while, all right, so let's, uh,let's jump back on topic here.
Um so, yeah so women in discgolf is is big with us because
of our involvement with theevergreen women's series.
What advice do you have for, uh, a woman just starting out or

(01:34:28):
maybe looking to advance herposition or direction in disc
golf?
What advice can you give?

Speaker 1 (01:34:36):
Yeah, I would really.
I think finding the rightenvironment for you to compete
in, so kind of being diligentabout that, like reaching out to
other women or reaching out tothe club and to look for other
women to play with, right Ithink.
I think women playing withother women is one of the
biggest keys to women being, uh,finding sustainable love in the

(01:34:59):
sport, right, I think you cankind of get into it and get into
it hard and then kind of falloff.
If you don't have that right,that foundational support system
Now, along with that, though Ithink it's sometimes you can get
, it can be difficult for womento get along.
Sometimes there's like the egosinvolved kind of get in the way

(01:35:23):
of the fun of the sport.
I mean it can happen in men andwomen, but I think women have a
few less opportunitiesthroughout their life to kind of
foster those skills of being,you know, a competitive person
and not taking that personal ormaking it personal between other
women to play where?
you're playing with other women.

(01:35:43):
I think it's also fosteringthose like positive
relationships with other womenand working at that and really
understanding.
Like, if you have a weirdfeeling because of something
somebody said, is that comingfrom you or is that coming from
them?
Is it because you felt offendedbecause of something, because

(01:36:04):
of your own internal struggles,or were they being offensive or
they saying something you knowlike?
So, finding your group and thenlearning how to get along with
other women in a competitiveenvironment Um, too often I see,
you know.
Um, sometimes I see women whothere's it depends on the area
in um in Texas, the the group ofwomen that runs that women's

(01:36:25):
series has been really, reallysuccessful because they're so
welcoming and they really havetheir emotional IQ.
Their EQ is very high amongstthe leaders there, and then they
have the women in there thatare sometimes problematic, but
overall it's a really good vibe.
In other places, though, I'veseen the person who takes up

(01:36:47):
leadership in the area the womanthat does that maybe doesn't
have the EQ that she needs forthat role, and it actually turns
women off and can kind of be atoxic environment in some ways.
So I think that that's justsomething that we as women have
to learn to really learn how toget along and be and be
competitive with each other, butalso be supportive, and that is

(01:37:09):
really where the beauty of thiscommunity comes in.
It's one of the few sportswhere you can literally play
alongside someone and play yourbest and watch them play their
best and be happy that they beatyou.
There's not very many sportsaround that have that kind of

(01:37:29):
spirit of a game when you canactually literally enjoy and get
beat as well and lose.
You can be a joyful loser.
It's not the easiest mentalityto adopt, but I think it's
really powerful and it's abeautiful thing to be able to do
, and I personally am able to doit sometimes.

(01:37:51):
Sometimes.
I'm not able to do it,unfortunately.
Yeah, it is.
People want to like, I think.
As someone who's been in thegame for so long, I think people
think that the mental game iskind of an upward track, that as
you figure this thing out,check it off the list and then

(01:38:12):
I'm going to get here and thenslowly just build your way up
this beautiful mountainscape andat the top you can finally look
out over the valley and knowthat you've achieved.
That's not how it works.
No, it's not the mental game.
As soon as you figure onelittle thing out and you've
achieved, you check that off.

(01:38:32):
Then you know the valley dropsout the mountain, there's a cave
in, you know, and you got to gofind a new challenge.
You got to find a new method todeal with another challenge.

Speaker 3 (01:38:44):
Or even a bigger mountain.

Speaker 1 (01:38:47):
Yeah, maybe there's a bigger one on the other side of
that one.
Yeah, um, that you didn't evenknow was there and then and then
then there's also the thechallenge of remembering all the
things that you've learnedthrough the beginning part of
the struggles.
You know we forget so much asmuch as we learn all the time
that you know.
That's kind of why I love thebob rotella method, because he
says the same thing but but hesays it 13 different ways.

Speaker 3 (01:39:11):
Well, and I imagine that's why routine is so
important is because even now,being a fairly I consider myself
kind of a developed player, atleast more mature than I was
when I started out out I stillam making rookie mistakes that I
did my first year, especiallyearly in the season, and I have

(01:39:32):
to retrain myself on those everysingle year.

Speaker 1 (01:39:37):
Yeah, both on a mental side and then also, you
know, the physical side.
The more like as I'm developingmore of a backhand game now, I
have more shots to maintain.
Yeah, you know, like they don'tjust automatically just because
you learned how to throw it onetime doesn't mean you're going
to be able to hit it at that atthe click.
You need to.
You know, especially forapproach shots and stuff.
I mean, you got to hit thoselike that's gotta be like 80,

(01:39:58):
90%.

Speaker 3 (01:39:59):
Oh yeah, and it it also one.
Whatever you don't practicethat week or kind of neglect,
that week always tends to showup on the course in a big way.

Speaker 1 (01:40:14):
Sure.

Speaker 2 (01:40:16):
I was going to say I'm focusing really heavily on
the mental aspect of the gameand just trying to maintain that
positive attitude whereBrandon's focusing more on the
physicality of the game.
And so it's interesting to seehow our games are progressing
this year because of we'refocusing on the different

(01:40:39):
aspects of the game.

Speaker 1 (01:40:42):
Yeah, no, absolutely.
And yeah, the physical parts is, you know, learning how to do
all the shots and thenmaintaining it Right.
I mean, that is the whole taskin itself, and then the mental
parts of it is like you know,just, I think the biggest trick,
or the biggest thing that itmakes a difference for me, is

(01:41:12):
how quickly I recover from theissue.
You know certain issues, youknow.
I mean, I had the yips in 2014and you know that took me.
It took me like six months to ayear to work through, and then
there's still residual, you know, there's residual stuff from
that still in my mental game,you know now, even a decade
later.
So, yeah, it's.

(01:41:33):
It's unlearning too.

Speaker 3 (01:41:35):
Yes, well, one of the things we always tell our kids
and we tell each other is thatpreparation doesn't necessarily,
uh, reduce the trauma.

Speaker 1 (01:41:47):
It speeds recovery sure, yeah, yeah, yeah.
And that's I mean.
And there's the whole mentalside of that, like where can you
put your brain?
Where can you, where can youput your thoughts in order to
try to get yourself out ofwhatever just happened?
But then there's the wholephysical side of things too, you
know, like yeah deep breathing,splash, you know, splash your

(01:42:07):
face with water.
um, how do you?
You know, how do youde-escalate that flight or fight
moment?
Yeah, I've.
And actually, how do you get toyourself where you're seeing it
, where you actually don't gointo that fight or flight thing
and you're able to just see thisas a challenge to be overcome
and not a threat on your life,like our bodies sometimes want

(01:42:29):
to think it is?
It's a threat on your life,like like our bodies sometimes
want to think it is.

Speaker 3 (01:42:32):
It's a threat on my life.
Yeah so I, our bodies, do that.

Speaker 1 (01:42:37):
I've had those rounds obviously you haven't
experienced this, but, but wehave yeah it's like we live our
body, even though we know thatit's just frisbee, it's just a
game.
Our bodies literally think thatwe're gonna die if we don't do
something about this.

Speaker 2 (01:42:51):
Yeah, I get to a point where my heart rate's up
and it's like I need to get myheart rate down because I know
I'm in that response.
So I've come to recognize thatand how do I then calm down from
having my heart rate up so high?

Speaker 3 (01:43:05):
The way I relate to that is I've been in highly
competitive collision sports athigh levels during my young life
, so you know you're thinkingthat you're going to get rocked
or get your bell rung constantly, and so it's weird how that
translates into a game like golfwhere you're not under those

(01:43:25):
threats but still my body and mybrain like clicks into that, uh
, that place where it's like, ohyou know, the defenseman is
coming over the line, I'm goingto get rung.

Speaker 1 (01:43:37):
Well, yeah, and then for your and that's also the
beauty the difference in thesports right, like in in that
contact sport, that is, it'sactually important that your
body reacts that way, that is,that you need to react, that way
it keeps you safe.
But then for disc golf it'sactually a hindrance for our
bodies to go into that mode.
Yeah, you know.

Speaker 3 (01:43:58):
Yeah, and that's one of the ways that disc golf has
helped me is to kind of calmthat urge down, and it doesn't
always work the way it'ssupposed to, you know the
therapeutic aspect, to kind oftake that edge off.
And on that note I was going toask you do you have some common
practices or some favoritethings that you do to kind of

(01:44:20):
deal with the mental thing?
Like do you meditate you saidyou did deep breathing, maybe
grounding exercises, like whatdoes that look like for you?

Speaker 1 (01:44:31):
Yeah, if I'm really going through it, especially in
the middle of a route, I do alot of breathing.
I will try to.
If I can recognize what'shappening.
I will try to start like justobserving nature and start kind
of telling myself about, talkingto myself, about how you know,

(01:44:51):
this doesn't actually matter.
My dog loves me, my mom lovesme, my boyfriend loves me, I've
got everything I need.
No matter what happens here,the world is, it's just fine.
I'm going to go make myself anice dinner and enjoy my evening
, regardless of whether thisputt goes in or not, you know,
or whatever it is.
I'll just try to kind ofdeescalate in my mind and then I

(01:45:13):
do a lot of deep breathing andobserve nature.
That's probably my three thingsthat I work through when I'm
going through it.

Speaker 2 (01:45:22):
So one of the things you know as part of the
community of playing with otherwomen.
So my first year there was thisgroup of women that I ended up
playing with a lot, and so wetried to take a lot of the
negatives and make them positive.
So we said that you know, ifsomething happens, we're like
we'll do the Taylor Swift andshake it off.

(01:45:42):
So we would all take like a 10second dance party and like all
try and shake it off and try andmove on.
Yeah, I think it was Kayla whostarted the 10 second dance
party and then, if you're youknow, you went from being like
top of the box to bottom of thebox.
Well, now you have snack time,so you get to take a snack break
.
And then something I did at mytournament last year Sirens of

(01:46:05):
the Springs, which was a hugehit, was the first round of the
springs which was a huge hit wasthe first round of the
tournament.
We did a bingo where you had alot of those negatives like so
you hit a tree, uh, landed inthe hazard, the wind took your
disc, some of those things thatwould normally be negatives it
was.
It turned it into a positive ofhey, I got another thing on my
bingo card.

Speaker 1 (01:46:26):
So finding ways to actually physically have.
Oh, yeah, yeah, did youactually physically have bingo
cards?
Yep, we had bingo cards.
So finding ways you actuallyphysically have, oh yeah, yeah,
did you actually physically havebingo?

Speaker 3 (01:46:30):
cards yep, we had bingo cards and we're gonna do
it again this year what one ofthe biggest hits, one of the.
I love that.
One of the biggest things thatshe did and it was absolutely
hilarious is she let peoplesponsor trees oh yeah and so you
get, yeah, for five bucks youcould sponsor a tree or whatever
.
And they get a little sign andyou can put a little quote on it

(01:46:52):
or like a funny picture orsomething, and it's like usually
it went on like first availableor like that one right in front
of the basket that has a lot oflike pockmarks in it.

Speaker 2 (01:47:02):
So at Shelton Springs you'll get to see it.
You won't be on the red pad,but on hole 15 there's this one
tree and it was the first onethat my friend, tony morgan
she's like.
I want this tree.
I always hit this tree, this ismy tree, and so it was just
funny that she's like I'm gonnasponsor that tree, yeah, so

(01:47:24):
finding ways yeah, do you getanything if you hit that tree?

Speaker 1 (01:47:29):
no, the tree you sponsor.
No, we didn't do that, it wasjust encouragement.

Speaker 2 (01:47:34):
And then people were like hey, tony, I hit your tree.

Speaker 3 (01:47:37):
So it kind of yeah, made some camaraderie and, yeah,
you know, added some of thegood fundraising.

Speaker 2 (01:47:43):
Yeah, the fun good fundraising for the tournament.
And uh, something else I'vebeen working on is intentionally
being like, okay, I had a badshot, okay, I need to come up
with three positives to get backon the positive side of things.
So, um, like, oh, I made a gooddrive, so there's one.
I made a good recovery, there'stwo, I made a good putt, so

(01:48:04):
there's three.
And trying to say that tomyself and try and get myself
back on that positive track.
So I'm I'm really focusing onthat aspect of the disc golf
game.

Speaker 1 (01:48:17):
Yeah, I love that.
Two things.
Number one I love the bingocard one.
In my early years especially, Iwould get thrown by really bad
things that would happen.
You know, like I OB, you knowget the can't get up and down
for a double or something.
Whatever it was I would alsohave.
I would didn't have an actuallist that I had physically but

(01:48:38):
if, like, I missed a 10 footer,I'd be like, oh, check that one
off the list Missed the 10footer for the round.
Oh well, lost a disc in thewater check.
And it would help me also like,oh, this is just, these are
just things that happen and like, just get over it, because they
were, it was just going tohappen anyway at some point.

Speaker 4 (01:48:55):
Um, I love that um, and then also in the right,
exactly.

Speaker 1 (01:49:00):
So then you kind of kind of move forward to help me,
but I think in a similar way asthis bingo card thing, which I
like your method way better I'mgonna have to.
I may have to play with that alittle bit.
I really love that.
I might steal that from you.
Pdga approved bingo codes.
Yeah right, the other thing wewould do at a bunch of women's
events in California we play thedot game.

(01:49:21):
Oh yep, which you know it'scontroversial, whether it's like
good dots or bad dots.
There's a couple pro women thathate the dot game.
You know I don't want to dotfor missing a 10-footer, okay,
whatever, but there's good dotsand bad dots.
You know, at least if you hitmetal, you know like at some
points when you're putting, likehitting metal is a positive

(01:49:43):
thing, even if it doesn't go in.
You know it depends on whereyou're at with your putting game
or whatever.
And even from distance, youknow.
You know hitting metal from 60feet is pretty good, yeah, you
know, even if it didn't go in.
So you know finding thoselittle things.
But anyway, the dot game wouldgive people like encouragement,
I got six dots or like.
You know you'd be like I got aneight, but I got, I got a dot

(01:50:06):
or whatever, and then you couldwin the dot game, which would be
some silly prize that nobodymaybe wanted.

Speaker 3 (01:50:13):
But there you go.
That yeah, the, it's gonnahappen now.

Speaker 2 (01:50:14):
Well, the few women I've played the dot game with is
there's always the one it'slike.
I know I got a dot, don't talkto me about it.

Speaker 1 (01:50:23):
Yeah, yeah it's kind of funny.
People's reaction to it is notalways positive, I guess, but I
liked it yeah it's um but what?

Speaker 2 (01:50:30):
what I really what?

Speaker 1 (01:50:31):
I really wanted to like actually get to, though, is
to touch on what you saidearlier about how you try to
find those positive things aftera negative thing.
Well, one of the things that Ifound, so Bob Rotello is like my
first author, that I reallyenjoyed reading, but then I
found this book called fearlessgolf, and it's from it's by Gio
Valiente, and I really likedthis one, particularly because

(01:50:57):
it had a lot of the stuff thatBob Rotella has.
But he really talked about theslider fight, fight, response,
um, and really kind of took theneurobiology part of it, brought
that out to the surface, whichwas really interesting to me as
a science person, um, but thenlike also really talked about
like keeping um, like a, eithera net positive um mind frame by

(01:51:25):
like taking a mastery approachto the mental side, which is
different than a kind of a, Iguess I think he did.
He call it I can't rememberwhat the other thing.
I think it might was an egocentric or an ego approach, but
what he really talks about istrying to just either, um,
either celebrate what you did orlearn from what you did.

(01:51:48):
So if you, if you, throw a badshot and you react emotionally
to it like ah, then you'vealready put yourself into a
negative like a fight or flightreaction.
But if you throw a bad shot andyou go oh, what happened there?
And you take curiosity, youbring curiosity into the
equation.
That that really mitigates yourability to be emotional about

(01:52:11):
it yeah right.
So every shot is is either apositive, like oh, you feel good
because you threw a good shot,or it's a net, a net zero, a
zero sum, where you're justlearning okay, I need to throw
that a little bit differently,or oh, I just you know I needed
it to fall through, or I missedthis part of my run up, or
whatever it is.

(01:52:32):
So that was.
I really enjoyed this masterymind frame that, you know,
helped me either learn or feelgood.

Speaker 2 (01:52:40):
So it's always either zero or one, not negative one
teacher to teacher of you know,this is what we strive for as
teachers is to teach ourstudents to continue to want to
learn and to have that openmindset and become lifelong
learners, and I think that's oneaspect of this game that you

(01:53:01):
know draws us to it so much isthat we can become lifelong
learners of ourselves, how wereact, and you know how we
connect physically in the gametoo, and then there's a
community aspect.

Speaker 3 (01:53:11):
So you're you're making some connections for me
that I hadn't made before oh,cool yeah well, I think it was
one of my favorite quotes outthere and I'm gonna butcher it.
I think it was aristotle orsomething, but it was to have
knowledge is easy, to knowyourself is difficult so sure,

(01:53:33):
yeah, know thyself.

Speaker 1 (01:53:34):
That is also like something I constantly repeat to
myself in tournaments, um, andI think that, yeah, that's
really helpful for people,because you like knowing what
you can do versus what everybodyelse is doing.
To separate your game fromeverybody else's game is really
important, yeah, and and to spinoff of what you were do versus
what everybody else is doing.

Speaker 3 (01:53:50):
To separate your game from everybody else's game is
really important, yeah, and tospin off of what you were just
saying, one thing that I've beendoing lately that's really
helped me and maybe it'll helpour listeners and help you is,
you know, if I find myself doingthe same mistake out there on
the course repeatedly, like I'mpulling to the right or
something like that, I just kindof say to myself, like I'm
pulling to the right orsomething like that, I just kind
of say to myself you know, thisis the lesson that I need to

(01:54:12):
learn today.

Speaker 1 (01:54:13):
Yeah, I like that, frame it.
Frame it in a way that like, oh, this is what I'm supposed to.
This is actually now guiding mywork.

Speaker 3 (01:54:20):
Yeah, this is why I'm here today is to learn this.

Speaker 2 (01:54:36):
I think that's what we talked to Eric Oakley about,
too, in one of our previousepisodes.
I think that was something thatEric said to suggested to us is
uh, he was talking about how hewas working on his mental game
a couple years ago, and that wassomething that he suggested as
well.

Speaker 1 (01:54:42):
Yeah, he was super lovely to us as well yeah, can't
wait to see him at cascadechallenge too yeah, yeah, I know
, and he's been one of the fewthat has been kind of more
forthright with some of hismental struggles.
I think A lot of the pros wedon't really talk online about
it as much.

Speaker 3 (01:54:57):
Well, it's a deeply personal aspect of who you are.
You know like your mentalhealth is definitely part of
your identity.
So it's really difficult towear yourself out there in the
world like that, because it's avulnerability and people don't
like to be vulnerable.

Speaker 1 (01:55:18):
Yeah Well, and also just the way the internet works.
Everyone wants to be idealisticabout the way that they are
compared to the way someone elseis, and so people get really
judgy about.
If you get real personal aboutyourself and you know it's just
really that whole part of youknow finding sharing and being
authentic online and finding youknow getting followers and

(01:55:42):
sharing as much as you can.
That's a whole other aspectthat I think has a really
negative impact on the mentalside of the sport, if you let it
.

Speaker 3 (01:55:51):
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
Disc golf is rapidly evolving.
I mean, every day it seems likethere's something new, some new
techniques, some new, you know.
So what changes are you makingto keep up with the pace, and
what are you excited about?

Speaker 1 (01:56:08):
well, you know, I'm always trying to keep up with
the what's required.
Uh, as far as uh skills, skillset, you know, like what
different shots there, you know,are we.
Are we really expecting thewomen to throw backhand rollers?
You know, is that really wherewe're at Like, trying to keep up
with what the uh, the FPOdivision is.
You know what the courses arerequiring of us, um, which, uh,

(01:56:32):
that is one part awesome and onepart extremely frustrating.
That is one part awesome andone part extremely frustrating.
It's really awesome to see theskill set increase on the
women's side of things, but it'salso really sad and depressing
that I am kind of closer to theend of my physical abilities and
that I can only do so much.

Speaker 3 (01:56:54):
You want to play the game forever.
You know.
The reality is that nobody canyes, I'm very realistic about
that.

Speaker 1 (01:57:04):
Um.
So, yeah, these.
Uh, last year was pretty toughbecause of my.
I had ankle surgery, umsemi-unsuccessful ankle surgery
at that, unfortunately.
Um.
So that took my most of myseason out um the middle of the
season and then I kind of wasrecovering on the way back at
the end of the season.
And now this year, you knowwe're coming into it and the

(01:57:25):
talent level has once againincreased over over time and the
requirements on distance orscoring in the FBO side has also
continued to get pushed to thenext level.
So, yeah, so for me personallythat is a huge struggle in order
to like, enjoy the game whenI'm still maybe not able to

(01:57:49):
score as often, and also that,you know, it puts me behind a
little bit when it comes to myability to get into those podium
spots just because I don't haveaccess to birdies.
So that's been a real struggleand I it's going to continue to
be so, I think, for the nextcouple of years.

Speaker 3 (01:58:05):
Well, and it's.
It's an interesting time welive in too, because you're
starting to see the firstgeneration of disc golfers come
through that have been playingsince they've been in diapers,
as where some of the some of theolder generations were back
when there was pole golf, andwe're throwing pie pans and and

(01:58:26):
things like that yeah, like Iwould say, when I first came
into the sport, almost everybodywith the exception of maybe val
but I think val doesn't evencount because she didn't like to
play when she was a kid anyway,I think everybody was an adult
when they learned to play.

Speaker 1 (01:58:44):
And then Paige Pierce came in.
Right, she was the first on theFBO side that had played her
whole life and it showed yeah,and still shows yeah.
And now we're getting guess.
If we think about, we stillhave some adult crossovers.
For sure, most of thesuccessful women are adult

(01:59:06):
crossovers, but the cadenceburges of the world we've got
who's come at.
Rebecca cox has been in it herwhole life, um, you know.
And then some of these youngerlike like Evelina Hena Silva,
the Europeans who grew up in ita little bit too.
So, yeah, it is pretty amazingto watch the progression when
you can just get into the sportyoung.

(01:59:26):
But that, I'm sure, also comeswith challenges.
We've seen Paige in her era ofdominance and now people
question her motivations, andshe's only in her early 30s.

Speaker 3 (01:59:39):
I never thought of it like that.
Now it all changes.

Speaker 1 (01:59:42):
I mean it's, you know , the intrinsic versus the
extrinsic nature of motivation.
You know, I think that theseplayers coming up in it have had
that extrinsic from theirparents.
You know the pushing, and so ifthey can develop, that
intrinsic.
I think that they could have along career, but if they don't,

(02:00:03):
that'll dry up.

Speaker 2 (02:00:04):
Well, and part of it, too, could be.
You know, if you're used tobeing successful and then you
find yourself not beingsuccessful, that struggle of how
do you all of a sudden, nowwhat's motivating you to now
become successful when you'renot used to?

Speaker 1 (02:00:19):
you know, when you're not used to failing, yeah, the
equation you used to get towhere you are is not going to
work from here on out.

Speaker 3 (02:00:28):
Yeah, you have to adapt as your mental state and
your and your physical statechanges over time.

Speaker 1 (02:00:35):
Yeah, I mean, I'll tell you straight straight up,
like after I won in 2012, umthat next year, I remember des
reading comes up to me and shegoes hey, you're playing pretty
good, even though you just won,you know I was like huh, I
didn't even I.
I didn't even know what she wastalking about.
You know I?
I was like what are you talkingabout?

(02:00:57):
And then, I think years later,I realized I was like, oh,
because once you win, now youhave to deal with this
expectation, not only ofyourself, but also from other
people.
And now you go from a challengeof like can I do this?
I wonder if I can do this.
Nobody knows if I can do it.

(02:01:17):
I don't even know.
I'm the underdog.
You're usually the underdoguntil you're not.
And then, once you become theperson, then your identity has
changed.
And now, instead of being achallenge and like, ooh, can I
just do this thing?
All of a sudden, now you'reprotecting this identity that
you've built, and now you'replaying scared, you're playing

(02:01:40):
not to lose instead of playingto win, um, and that is a whole
thing to try to work through.

Speaker 3 (02:01:42):
Well, I imagine it's to bring things full circle.
It's kind of like the statthing, like, where it's like oh,
I'm supposed to be a 90 putterfrom circle one and today I'm
only hitting 60 like, and thenyou freak out and you're in and
I imagine like a win, a W isjust a stat, and now there's
that expectation.

Speaker 1 (02:02:02):
Yeah, no, it, it.
It affects it.
To make I think to, to stay ina state that you were when you
win what you, when you win thislast time or whatever it was, to
try to bring that into yournext win.
I think is, I think that'sreally difficult.
To try to bring that into yournext win, I think is I think
that's really difficult.
Um, I know, like you know, somepeople have like, there's some,
um, there's some personalitiesthat have had found techniques

(02:02:24):
to do it.
Um, I'm not going to mentiontheir name, but there's a, I
don't know a world champion indisc golf.
I don't know if it's okay If Isay this about him.
That's why I'm not going to saywho it was.
Um, that's why I'm not going tosay who it was.
But he once told me that theonly way he could really play
good is if he got himself mad.
He made himself angry.
He had to play angry in orderto play good, so he would like

(02:02:49):
work himself up on purpose.
But you know, it was like thatwas his personality and I
remember once I heard that Ithought, oh no, I'm never doing
that.
I don't want to play this gameif I have to play mad to play
good.
Um, but that is some people'spersonality, I mean michael
jordan.
He would talk trash to toeverybody.
He was so competitive and hestarted, he made it, he made it,

(02:03:12):
he would win because he madeeverything personal.
Oh yeah, that's how he would,that's how he did it and that
was part of his personality.
He needed that high state ofarousal in order to perform, so
he really had to make itpersonal, you know.
But man, losing must havereally hurt him hard oh, I bet
it did well.

Speaker 3 (02:03:31):
I think for anybody at a high level, I mean, it has
to, you have to take it.
You take it pretty hard well,and that's the thing.

Speaker 1 (02:03:38):
That's the challenge with disc golf, though, and golf
in general, is you win very fewtimes and you're a loser all
the time we lose almost everyweek.
150 people lose every week.
One person wins yeah, twopeople win.
You know like it is a game ofbecoming, of not letting a being
a loser make you think you're aloser yep it's definitely a

(02:04:02):
sport of failure, that's forsure yeah, so that is um, and to
say that you know that doesn'taffect you, it's like you know,
I think it's that's naive.
I think it definitely affectspeople absolutely so yeah, um,
anyway, it's, yeah, yeah, crazygame.

(02:04:23):
I don't, I don't, I don't liketo exist in a place where I have
to be mad.
I really, I really want and I'mstill obviously working on it
um, trying to find that placeevery week.
That puts me in a good mentalstate to enjoy my golf and do my
best out there without gettingin my own way.

Speaker 3 (02:04:39):
Yeah, yeah, and that's, that's the toughest part
.
I mean the game you said itearlier so much like ball golf,
you know, in the psychology ofit, you know it's really the
same game in its entirety, justa different medium.

Speaker 1 (02:05:02):
Oh, absolutely, absolutely.
Entirety, just a differentmedium.
Oh, absolutely, absolutely,yeah, so it's really great to
have that, those resources totry to help you work through the
mental side of it, becauseobviously we don't have
dedicated sports psychologistson the pro tour.
Uh, I would love one, thoughyou find a good sports
psychologist you gotta go talkto Seth Muncy oh, he's, he's
great.
No, he is great.
I talk to him all the time andhe has absolutely offered a lot

(02:05:27):
of psychological tricks and tipsto try to get us through these
things.

Speaker 3 (02:05:32):
For sure, he's where I get all my breathing from, for
sure, oh yeah is he still withthe tour this year or is he
doing the coach at Idaho thing?

Speaker 1 (02:05:41):
I believe he's doing both.
So he has been part-time.
He was kind of part-time tourlast year and hit like six
events and I think he's doingthe same thing again.
So he's not going to be on tourfull-time.
That's a full-time.
He'll fly out to some of thebig ones and then he'll still do
his own training stuff inMeridian or wherever he's at in
Boise.

Speaker 3 (02:06:01):
That's very cool.

Speaker 1 (02:06:03):
Yeah, it's actually cool that he now lives like 30
minutes from my parents.

Speaker 3 (02:06:08):
Oh, that's awesome.
That's awesome Because I'm fromIdaho originally?

Speaker 1 (02:06:14):
Yeah, so he moved to my home valley, treasure Valley,
nice.

Speaker 3 (02:06:18):
There you go.
Speaking of which, what do youthink of disc golf breaking into
the college sports scene?
I mean, it's looking as if it'sgoing to be NCAA, it's looking
like it's going to be an Olympicsport here pretty soon, and
I've even heard of some collegeshaving programs where they're
offering full scholarships tocome play disc golf.

Speaker 1 (02:06:43):
Yes, I am aware of that.
There are definitely fullscholarships for disc golf right
now.
Um, I think it's really goingto be interesting to see how the
sport changes once collegereally does get up to speed.
Because right now, um, they'relike the organization of it is
starting to come around, but thetalent level is just not there.
We don't see all of the.
We have all these 16, 17,18-year-olds on tour as pros who

(02:07:07):
would beat all those collegekids handily.
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (02:07:11):
Yeah, yeah, fair, and if you have the ability, you
want to go to a tour.

Speaker 1 (02:07:16):
It's kind of a sad.
I mean I don't mean to, I'm nottrying to knock on the college
folks at all but right now thereis a direct pro track from high
school to pro.
We don't have this like stop inat college and develop your
skills thing and then go playpro.
You know, we don't have thatprogression in the sport right
now.
Right now, if you'reprogressing as most of these

(02:07:38):
kids coming up in the pro sideright now, if they went to
college they would be kind ofdropping back down and then
having to come back on the proscene.
Yeah, they'd be missing out.
They would be maybe.
I mean they would be developinga whole other set of skills
that would probably be helpfulfor them in their life and maybe
in their career.

Speaker 3 (02:07:59):
Yeah, for sure.

Speaker 1 (02:08:00):
But it's not like it doesn't make sense right now for
you know this really talented17-year-old to go to college
when he can play on the Pro Tourand make like you know.
Look at Gannon yeah, he shouldbe in college right now.
Emily Weatherman she should bein college right now.
Paige Pierce should have beenin college then you know.
So I think that you know othersports have things like this.

(02:08:23):
You know this program that yougo progress from high school,
then you're going to go play fora college team and then you're
going to go play pro.
That's not how it works rightnow and I don't know how we get
there.

Speaker 2 (02:08:33):
So that's what I'm concerned about is that we have
this great this organizationalthing happening right now, which
is awesome and I want that.
But then how do we meld thatwith the pro scene into later in

(02:08:54):
life, into college?
I could see it even be alongthose lines where kids go pro
for however many years and thenit's like, okay, I'm not
performing the way I want to orI'm ready to move on to
something else, and then at thatpoint they go in as an older
student and maybe they're ableto do it at that point.

Speaker 3 (02:09:13):
And that's their ticket to go to college.
Yeah, no, that's interesting,that's interesting.

Speaker 1 (02:09:18):
But I wonder point, and that's their ticket to go.
Yeah, no, that's interesting,that's interesting, but I wonder
if, because they've alreadyplayed pro, if they're
ineligible for ncaa sports.

Speaker 3 (02:09:22):
That's a good point well, yes and no, I was just
going to bring that up.
It's an interesting aspect thatthe ncaa lifted the ban on
amateur athletes havingsponsorships and, uh, modeling
careers and that type of thing,uh, and it all stems from.
It all stems from, like, thencaa football games because they

(02:09:45):
had used all the players namesand jerseys and stuff, and you
know ea sports who does allthose games.
They never paid the players andthey just wanted the players,
want a big lawsuit saying thatthey need to pay them for using
their face and likeness.
Well, and also, those athletescan carry sponsorships now, from
you know, marketing deals suchas like nike or like adidas or

(02:10:09):
something like that, and and sothat's working its way into the
NCAA now as well.

Speaker 1 (02:10:18):
Yeah, no, there's a whole lot.
I mean, I know when I playedyou couldn't earn it over a
certain amount of money and youdefinitely couldn't have played
pro and then go play college.
So it changed a lot of thosethings and maybe that would
allow for, you know, a later inlife college uh Avenue, um,
where we could have these 30year old-old dudes playing
college disc golf.
I don't know if that's theticket either, but I like the

(02:10:41):
idea.

Speaker 3 (02:10:43):
Yeah, and then, kind of along these same lines,
what's the temperature and theatmosphere of?
Just in your personal anecdotalopinion, what's the prospect of
getting disc golf into theOlympics very soon?

Speaker 1 (02:10:58):
I don't think soon is the right word, but I
definitely think it'll happeneventually.
I do think so.
We have a lot of compliancethings to come up with.
We need disc golf in a bunchmore countries, so that, like
the Marco Polo program, the PaulMcBeth Foundation, some of that
stuff that's got to expand.
We need to do that for likefive or six more years to get

(02:11:19):
these in a bunch of differentcountries.
Um, and then we have to get onpar with their drug testing
policies, um.
So that's a whole.
I know we're the pro tour, thepro tour is starting that, so we
have to get in compliance withuh with that stuff, which is
worse.
So we're at least three yearsaway from that, with uh with
that stuff which is we're still.

Speaker 3 (02:11:38):
We're at least three years away from that.
Okay, um, from my understanding, like the anti-doping and
performance enhancing and stufflike that gotcha, gotcha yeah,
yeah okay so we have to get intocompliance with all of that.

Speaker 1 (02:11:48):
We have to get into more places, um, and then I
think yeah, I think that I thinkwe're on track, though I think
the, the leadership, the peopleleaders in this sport are, it's
on their radar.
I think it'll happen.
I don't know how soon, thoughDefinitely not in my life, I
mean not in my life as a player,but maybe in 20 years, fair
enough.

Speaker 3 (02:12:08):
Fair enough, all right.
So I got to ask Sarah what doyou got in the bag?

Speaker 1 (02:12:14):
What do you got in the bag?
Yeah, main drivers are mysignature trace, the Cosmic
Neutron Traces and the FissionPhotons I like a Vanish, a
Neutron Vanish as well and theUnderstable Distance Driver.
I'm throwing some orbitals withmy backhand at that slot,

(02:12:40):
overstable, pretty much goingwith photons in the 11 speed
slot.
Nine speeds I don't have toomany, but I do like throwing a
virus backhand.
Or I've recently startedthrowing the virus sidearm for a
big turnover, really likingthat shot, um or a or a longer
flip up to straight shot, andthen six and a half speeds are a
huge part of my bag.
So we're talking relay crave.

(02:13:03):
Those two combinationOverstable, nine speed.
The fireball Mids I love thepyro for my overstable, the
reactor for my middle and thematrix.
The electron matrix takes careof all my understable slots For

(02:13:26):
putting.
I love putter approach stuff.
I like the tempo for sidearmand I like the range for both
sidearm and backhand.
The range is our new one.
For both sidearm and backhand.
The range is our new one.
I haven't thrown the Cosmicones that Eagle came out with
yet, but I've been throwing aGlow range for pretty much a
full year now and I really likethat disc.
It's really fun to throw.

Speaker 3 (02:13:45):
The range is the one that's.
It's kind of like a Berg.
Yeah, it's like a Berg yeah.

Speaker 1 (02:13:49):
It's a puddle top putter.
Yeah, it's really unique,flying so.
So I like that.
But then, as far as my actualputting, I use a spin, electron
spin, which is an understabledisc.
I like to throw it on anhyzersas well.
That's pretty much my bag verycool.

Speaker 3 (02:14:08):
So I don't know.
I don't want to get you introuble, but out of all time
your entire career what's yourabsolute favorite disc like?
Just maybe one that you wishyou had or one that you have a
fond memory of?
Yeah, yeah, um, oh, like anindividual, like an individual
disc yeah, for example, I have aninja turtles custom dyed

(02:14:30):
leopard that jenny made for meand it's my absolute favorite of
all time oh yeah, okay.

Speaker 1 (02:14:37):
Um, you know, I have this orange crave that I really
like, that I've had in my bagfor like five years.
I've had a.
I got a couple aces with it.
It flies great.
It's still a staple in my bag.
Um, it's just, I just love howit flies.
So I would say that one or Ihave this matrix, this electron

(02:14:57):
matrix that is so has so many uhwobbles in the top that it
looks like the worst disc evernobody would ever want to throw
it and it's so beat to crap thatit just looks like you couldn't
even sell it in a used bin.
Um, but I love it.
It's so weird, it's so flippyand, um, it does cool stuff

(02:15:21):
that's all it does.

Speaker 2 (02:15:22):
Cool stuff so you mentioned hobbies earlier.
When you're not disc golfing,what are your hobbies?

Speaker 1 (02:15:33):
oh, I'm always developing new ones, trying to
figure out what I like, tryingto spend my time not frisbeeing.
Okay so, entrepreneur, I playfrisbee, but I also because of
what it takes to be on the roadfull time.
I am also an entrepreneur, sowhich means that I work from
when I wake up until when I goto sleep, which is not good.

(02:15:54):
I have learned over the years,so hobbies have been really
important to me.
So what I do hobby-wise is Ilove to sew and cross-stitch and
paint and color and make stuff.
I like to work on my van.

Speaker 3 (02:16:14):
Yeah, so my hobbies are crafting, essentially
creative arts oh, very cool asJenny's sitting here knitting
herself a new pair of legwarmers while she's yep, I have
to knit or crochet to help mefocus.

Speaker 2 (02:16:31):
So yeah, I'm working on a new pair of leg warmers if
you need a set, let us know.

Speaker 1 (02:16:44):
Actually, I really need to learn to crochet,
because I don't actually knowhow to do that.
I've tried a couple of times.
I actually have a little kit tomake myself a hat that I
haven't gotten into yet, sowe'll see.
Oh, there you go.

Speaker 3 (02:16:57):
There you go, all right and so um.
Next question here is how doyou feel that disc golf has
helped shape you as a person andwhat lessons have you taken
away from your experiences?
Just kind of overall.

Speaker 1 (02:17:13):
Oh man, countless lessons.
Um, really, I think it's reallyexpanded my own understanding
of myself, certainly get to knowmyself better than I ever have
because of the sport.
You know, as soon as you thinkyou've got something figured out
with yourself in the sport, thegame shows you what you're

(02:17:33):
lacking.
So I really appreciate thatabout the sport.
I definitely could not havegrown as much as I have as a
human in general without discgolf.
So just about yourself learningwhat you're great at, what your
strengths and weaknesses areand how to work through all of
that.
And then the interpersonalskills, like really learning how

(02:17:56):
to, like I said earlier, enjoywatching someone beat you but be
at peace with that.
You know, I think that most ofus come into a lot of us come
into this game as a very with areally competitive mind frame.
That is sometimes to ourdetriment and I think disc golf
really teaches you to balancethat and gives you the
opportunity to learn how tobalance that.

(02:18:17):
Now, I don't think everybodydoes and you know I have my
moments where I'm not even close.
But just that constant ability,that constant opportunity to
try to just better yourself, Ithink is always there to enjoy
watching other people play wellalongside while you're doing,
trying to do your best.
So I think definitely learningabout yourself and learning how

(02:18:40):
to be a great community member,I think, is what I've learned
the most speaking, speaking ofcommunity, is what kind of
projects or what kind of thingsdo you have going on in the
future?

Speaker 3 (02:18:54):
uh, and what?
What are your plans for, maybeafter disc golf?

Speaker 1 (02:19:03):
Well, that's a really good question because that
aligns exactly what I'm tryingto do, um.
So, yeah, I'm going to continueto play um until it makes sense,
until I can't really supportmyself, where it doesn't make
sense for me to be out on theroad, which we're not quite
there yet, but we're gettingclose.
So after that, my goal is to gothrough the communities, to

(02:19:26):
still stay on the road, kind ofin my nomadic state, which I
prefer at this point and try togo and improve courses that need
some help, like going to someprivate courses that are
struggling in certain ways andsee if I can come in there and
help them improve their course,improve their connection with

(02:19:48):
the community, and see if we canget some of these courses that
aren't quite up to par to reallyget them as really viable
options for their community andconnect the community with these
courses and make sure that thethough however many was we have
like what is it 8,000, six, sixor 7,000 courses in the United
States?
I want to make sure that theyare all really good.

(02:20:09):
That's my goal, nice.

Speaker 3 (02:20:12):
That's awesome.
So so course.
And community development, thenthat's right.

Speaker 1 (02:20:15):
So course and community development, then
that's right, that's a betterword for it.
I could have just said that Allright.
So, yeah, course and communitydevelopment, that's what we're.
Yeah, I'm actually I'm hopingto start like a YouTube channel
and kind of play it like ahomestead rescue.
Have you ever seen that?
Oh, we love that show.

Speaker 3 (02:20:31):
We love it Disc golf rescue, yeah, so in that.
I love it.

Speaker 1 (02:20:34):
Disc golf rescue yeah so in that kind of like that.
But I don't know, you know Idon't want to necessarily
approach course owners like, hey, I'm going to come rescue your
course.
You know, it's not really quitewhere I'm at with it.
I think they just I want to tryto come in and be a consult and
do a bunch of work on theirproperty and see if we can get
it, improve it in ways that canmake it a more successful venue

(02:20:55):
at it, improve it in ways thatcan make it a more successful
venue.

Speaker 2 (02:20:56):
Yeah, and come in with the lens of like what can
we also add for, like uh,beginners, women, juniors, like
I know that's one thing we'vedone uh over here in Washington.
A lot of the courses arelooking through that lens of how
can we make it more, you know,user-friendly to all areas of
disc golf.

Speaker 1 (02:21:15):
Yeah, and actually that's.
I'm glad you said that, becausethat is actually my main focus,
more so than trying to makethese like chance championship
level courses.
I'm talking, um, you know,there's estimated uh, 15 million
people play frisbee.
Um, only one, 1.4 million umyou use use udisc, and only

(02:21:37):
about 150,000 play tournaments.
So the people that I know arethe 1%ers or even the .01%ers,
but there's 99% of the peopleout there don't want to play a
course that I would competeon.
So trying to make sure, andunfortunately and maybe not not
unfortunately, but just as theway it is people who typically

(02:22:00):
are in charge of designingcourses or have the passion and
motivation to go plead withtheir parks department to get a
course put in, are also usuallypretty well.
So their eye sees 350 footshots.
They don't see what the 99%need Right.

(02:22:23):
So, adapting these courses thatdon't get a lot of play because
, honestly, they're just maybenot fun.
They're meant for the 1% andthere's only so many 1% out
there.
So if we can adapt thesecourses for the 99, add some
putter courses, some microcourses, you know, get some
bathrooms on these courses,figure out ways to get a league,

(02:22:44):
get a double league started atthis course.
Get some short pads.
Get a couple extra pinplacements, you know, make the
course a little playable.
Get some better signage, youknow, improve some of these
little things that make a courseway better for pretty low cost.
I'm hoping I'd like to do it ongrant money so that I can come

(02:23:07):
in and, you know, be at no costto the course owner to try to
improve the property.
So, or the YouTube channelsubscribers, I'm hoping could
fund some of that.
So anyway, that's kind of thegoal eventually.
That's fantastic.

Speaker 3 (02:23:23):
Those are some great aspirations.
I love it and we've talkedabout it before is that it seems
like I think it's justsomething in society.
Is that people like to see thewinners and people like to see
the overachievers and the upper1%, and it creates this vast
underserved community of justthe recreational players and you

(02:23:47):
know the people that do it onweekends just for a kick in the
pants with their guys orsomething like that, and uh,
yeah, that's that's.
You know, that's really whereyour audience is.
Is that 99%?

Speaker 1 (02:24:00):
Correct.

Speaker 3 (02:24:01):
I mean if that's how I see it as well if I was a
marketing person, I would saywhy not go to where the biggest
population is, Because that'swhere the market is.

Speaker 1 (02:24:14):
Yeah Well, population , yes, and then and that's also
when we think about where thatactually is in in physical area,
a lot of times the populationdense areas don't have the space
we can't put in these bigcourses, like one thing you just
does really well is they havethis community health index that
I'm going to try to utilizethat shows like it's not just

(02:24:36):
the number of courses, it'scourse proximity to populations
and also the style of coursesthat exist within the community
and whether there's enoughcourses for the underserved
population, which is actuallythe majority.
So, yeah, that Community HealthIndex and UDIS, udis latest
reports they send out, is areally powerful piece of

(02:24:57):
information for where, where,what communities need and what
they don't already have oh, onequestion light bulb.

Speaker 3 (02:25:07):
I forgot to ask you this and I've been dying to ask
you this.
Can you make?
Can you make a comment on this?
I was eavesdropping on aprofessional player at the
Cascade Challenge last year andthey were conversating between
each other and the remark wasmade and I thought it was kind
of interesting that thedifference between a tour

(02:25:29):
professional and a localprofessional is mindset.
What do you think about that?

Speaker 1 (02:25:35):
Well, I think that's a pretty broad statement.
I think that that could beapplied to pretty much any
situation, because mindset iseverything.
Um, I don't know if I totallyagree with that.
Um, I think in some ways, yes,they're totally right, but
there's also more to it thanthat.
So, not just mindset, um it's.

(02:25:57):
You know, literally the amountof physical practice somebody
has.
A regional pro is going totheir nine to five and they're
spending.
They're spending a lot of timedoing other things and they're
trying to fit in practice.
They also, you know they'reprobably the underdog.
They don't have anyexpectations of themselves, you
know.
So it's the combination of yes,I mean they have expectations,
but you know, when it comes tothem performing on a big stage,

(02:26:19):
they don't expect to win um, sothey're going to play better
because of that, probably um.
So that's part of the mind frame, but it's also just the
physical amount of time theyhave to play and practice and
dial in their shots.
Sometimes I actually feel kindof like I'm jealous of the
regional pros sometimes, becauseI think it would be excellent

(02:26:41):
to not have any kind ofexpectation and to be able to
come in just to see how youcould do with just the challenge
in mind and not all of theother stuff that I have to
constantly block out orconstantly try to work through
because you're on tour.
So I mean, I guess I becauseyou're on tour.
So I mean I guess I agree withhim on the mind frame.

(02:27:03):
But it's like the, it's likethe foundation of the mind frame
is different because we'recoming from a totally different
um situation even though we aresigned up in the same division.

Speaker 3 (02:27:11):
No, that's.
I think that's well said.
That's very insightful.
So this has been an episode ofthe Intentional Disc Golfer
podcast with Sarah Hocum.
If you appreciate us, love us,please like, subscribe, follow,
tell all of your friends.
You can find us on Facebook andInstagram at the Intentional
Disc Golfer, and also our familypage at Saprinsky Disc Golf,

(02:27:35):
and we also have an ex TikTokand YouTube all at the same
place at the idg podcast.
That, uh, at the idg podcast,uh, the youtube is going through
an update right now because aswe work to incorporate video, so
that's coming soon.
If you don't see anything onthere, don't worry about it.
Uh, you can also text us somefan mail through our website on

(02:27:57):
Buzzsprouts there.
So when we share our links andeverything, you can click on
that and there should be alittle fan mail button up at the
top corner of the page.
And if you want to get a holdof us directly, we have a email
at theintentionaldiscgolfer atgmailcom.
That istheintentionaldiscgolfer at
gmailcom, and this show is madepossible through all of our fans

(02:28:21):
and our supporters.
So if you'd like to become afan or a supporter, well, you're
already a fan, but if you'dlike to support the show, please
go on to our patreon.
Uh, backslash the intentionaldisc golfer that is patreoncom.
Backslashtheintentionaldiscgolfer.
And, if you so choose, afterthe outro music.
We do like to do a little bitof an outtake, blooper reel.

(02:28:43):
So if there's any bloopers orouttakes after the outro music,
they will be attached to the endof this episode, kind of like a
hidden track, if we rememberCDs, and we'd like to thank all
of our fans out there anddefinitely like to thank sarah
hokum for spending this timewith us and having a lovely

(02:29:04):
conversation.
So, uh, and a quick shout outagain to josh larson.
Oh, capitan, again, this is theintentional disc golfer podcast
.
My name is brandon and I'm jennyand here at the intentional
disc golfer, we truly believethat disc golf changes lives, so
go out there and grow the sport.
Thank you for listening to thisepisode of the Intentional Disc

(02:29:38):
Golfer Podcast.
These are the bloopers andouttakes from this latest
episode.
We do have to warn you thatprofanity may be used and
sensitive topics may bediscussed.
Listener discretion is highlyadvised.
To avoid this, please stoplistening and move on to the
next episode.
Now, jenny, what is on ourcommunity calendar?

(02:30:00):
Oh crap.

Speaker 2 (02:30:05):
I'm not ready yet.

Speaker 1 (02:30:08):
He usually fucks up on oh sorry, he usually messes
up Tom's stretch and then Icatch him right at the end.

Speaker 3 (02:30:16):
I'm a construction guy.

Speaker 1 (02:30:17):
I cuss like a sailor, so yeah, sorry I've been out of
the education system for a fewyears.

Speaker 3 (02:30:26):
Well, and golf will bring it out of you, oh yeah oh
right, yeah, yes, for sure yeahI gotta ask sarah, what do you
got in the bag?
Oh, um all the good stuff fewwrap up, few wrap up questions
here, cause we're coming up onit, but yeah, what's what's in

(02:30:48):
your bag and a quick shout outagain to Josh Larson oh, capitan
, and uh, I lost it.

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