The Art and Science of Bringing New Life to Degraded Disc Golf Courses

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 2 (00:18):
Welcome to the Intentional Disc Golfer Podcast,
the show dedicated to helpingyou elevate your disc golf game
with purpose and strategy.
Whether you're stepping up tothe tee for the first time or
you're a seasoned pro chasingthat perfect round, this podcast
is your guide to playingsmarter, training better and
building confidence on thecourse.

(00:38):
We are Brandon and JennySaprinsky, passionate disc
golfers, here to exploreeverything from technique,
course management, mental focusand gear selection.
Grab your favorite disc, settlein and let's take your game to

(00:59):
the next level.

Speaker 3 (01:01):
Intentionally, intentionally and thank you once
again for joining us on thisepisode of the intentional disc
golfer podcast.
I am one of your intentionaldisc golfers.
My name is brandon hi, I'm jennyand we'd like to thank the fans
for sticking with us, beingfans, being involved in the show
, following us.

(01:22):
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And after the episode we like totake our outtakes and our
bloopers and things and tackthem to the end of the episode.

(02:30):
So if you stick around afterthe outro music, you might be
able to hear some bloopers andget a good laugh in there.
So we would like to thank oursponsors real quick and give
them a shout out.
We are sponsored by Treasuresof the Forest.
There's the guys that do theepoxy minis.
Sponsors real quick and givethem a shout out.
We are sponsored by treasuresof the forest.
Uh, there is the guys that dothe uh epoxy minis with all the
cool nature stuff in them fromthe different courses, and you

(02:53):
had one that you needed to givea shout out to, didn't you,
jenny?

Speaker 2 (02:56):
to the salty unicorns disc golf apparel.
Yes, how about our new one?

Speaker 3 (03:02):
our new one, yeah for the tournaments.

Speaker 2 (03:03):
Oh, that's for the tournaments.

Speaker 3 (03:04):
Well, we'll.
That's for the tournaments.
Well, we'll talk about thatwhen we get to the community
calendar.
That's a big one and, speakingof the community calendar, we
are ready for that.
So take it away, jenny.

Speaker 2 (03:15):
All right.
So I'm just excited, I keepgetting notifications about our
tournament.
Just excited, I keep gettingnotifications about our
tournament.
So we have, on March 2nd,shiver at the River.

(03:37):
We're both doing that one.
We have Team Golf on Sunday the9th, the first of the Evergreen
Women's Series.
The Fierce Flight Showdown ison March 15th and Brandon will
be at the West SoundInvitational on March 15th.
Then we have Team Golf at thewest sound invitational on march
15th.
Then we have team golf on the16th, the fourth annual
christopher reeves memorial andfundraiser for autism speaks,
sponsored by dynamic discs, onmarch 22nd, and then we wrap up

(03:57):
with team golf on march 30th andthen we have a couple
tournaments coming up, don't we?
Yes, our tournaments just opened, as of half an hour ago Sirens
of the Springs I believe it isthe third of the Evergreen
Women's Series this year.
And then we have a brothertournament, Tritons of the

(04:17):
Timbers, on May 4th.
That is also open for the men.

Speaker 3 (04:22):
Yeah.
So, ladies, come on out, playthe Evergreen Women's Series,
get your points, have some funwith a women-ran,
women-supported event.
And then, because the guys arein town anyway, we decided that
we were going to throw just acompanion tournament and give
them a chance to play too.
So please come out, registerfor those tournaments.

(04:43):
We'll be there, you can meet us, and we had the big
announcement of a key sponsorfor those tournaments.
Who's the big sponsor, jenny?
Tech Disc, tech Disc.
Yes, yes, so Tech Disc.
They're the guys that do thediscs with the little meters and
things on the bottom of them,and then they connect to your

(05:03):
computer or your phone and theygive you a readout of the
distance and the spin and allthe different aspects of your
throw, so you can really get toknow your throw.
Tech disc.
So Sirens of the Springs andTritons of the Timbers, powered
by tech disc.
So that's exciting news.
Yes, very cool.
All right, and we are on firewith having awesome guests on

(05:28):
this podcast lately, and we gotanother one for you.
It's a special guest.

Speaker 2 (05:34):
Your favorite word.

Speaker 3 (05:35):
Special.

Speaker 2 (05:37):
I'm going to get you a thesaurus.

Speaker 3 (05:42):
So, thank you Father's Day.
Is that what's going on?
Uh-huh, yeah, okay.
If oh, sorry, thank youfather's day, is that what's
going on?
Yeah, okay.
And so if you have a disc golfcourse or a park that needs a
little help, needs a little love, we have a guy on here that is
going to be able to tell youexactly how to get that going
and what can be done about itright after these sponsors all

(06:02):
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and personality to disc golfSalty Unicorns Apparel.

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That's right, salty Unicorns Apparel.
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Big news Disc Golf fans.

(07:16):
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gone.
This is Sarah Hocum and you arelistening to the Intentional
Disc Golfer Podcast.
I don't know about you, butI've been going to NAD Park

(08:00):
lately and seeing the differencegoing up to the tee pad, where,
where the teapad before it wasfine, it kind of had like a
cliff off to the left on theback, and all of a sudden, like
we went there and I think it waswhen it snowed but it was all
level, like you had to step up,like it was beautiful and there

(08:21):
was, um, all the bark so youcould walk around and figure out
where you were going and Iwasn't walking in the mud.

Speaker 3 (08:29):
It really threw me off.

Speaker 2 (08:31):
Yeah, it was like a whole new hole.
It's like how do I throw this?

Speaker 3 (08:34):
I'm so like thrown off by how amazing it is, so we
have on the podcast today theguy, the man that char in charge
of throwing off your game, thecourse beautification expert.
Go ahead and introduce yourself, sir hi, my name is chris

(08:58):
pendleton.

Speaker 1 (08:59):
I am the project lead of the nad restoration
Restoration Project.

Speaker 3 (09:03):
Yes, excellent.
So the NAD Restoration Projecthow long has that been a thing
Like?
Did you guys just start thisyear?
Have you been working on it fora while?

Speaker 1 (09:13):
That's a great question.
Actually, we just celebratedthe anniversary of the what is
going on at NAD question in thethird Thursday of February, so I
went to a West Sound Disc GolfAssociation board meeting I
think it was February and we hada discussion about maintenance

(09:38):
out at NAD Park and I decided todo something about it using
some of my past professionalexperience, and so this has only
been going on a year, but we'vemade, I think, in that time, a
couple of pretty good stepstowards making NAD Park
something really, really special.

Speaker 2 (09:57):
I'm surprised it's only been a year, Like you've
done a lot for a year.

Speaker 3 (10:00):
Yeah, you have done a lot for a year Now.
I always liked NAD Park, likeit was one of the better courses
in the area.
I guess what you know.
What were some of the specificthings that were needing
attention?

Speaker 1 (10:14):
Well, so I fell in love with disc golf at NAD Park.
This was, this was like my homecourse, and I started playing
disc golf in 2021.
Definitely like a COVID babywhen it comes to, you know, disc
golf and, as a formerlandscaper, so I used to do
agroecology and ediblelandscaping professionally I

(10:35):
have a couple of degrees in thatand I would walk through the
course and just ogle at the whatwhat I call the bones of the
park or bones of a landscape,what I call the bones of the
park or bones of a landscape.
And NAD Park just has so muchdiversity to it in terms of
environment we're not talkingabout like ecological diversity,
but it's got so much elevationto it.

(10:56):
It's got some really greatshots to it.
So you have your stock hyzers,you have your straight shots,
which are, of course, thehardest shot in disc golf.
You've got your fade shots andwhich are, of course, the
hardest shot in disc golf.
You've got your fade shots, andall in a par three.
And so, for somebody likemyself, when I went to NAD Park
as a beginner, I mean I wasgetting 30 or 40 feet off the

(11:16):
tee, thinking I was pretty hotstuff, and then grew into my
game and I watch people who arejust early beginners going out
there with their kids,intermediates honing in their
game and pros honing in theirtechnical skills from the blue
pads to the long baskets andthings right.
So I enjoyed going to Nat.

(11:37):
I think I was playing four orfive times a week with my dog,
really enjoying it.
But over time this is over thecourse of a couple years, right,
I'm watching how many peopleare going through the course and
during the explosion of covidand the popularity of disc golf
during covid and it was, Iactually started to see notable

(11:59):
degradation in the course.
Um, from the time that Istarted and that kind of just
piqued a question in my mindlike what's this going to look
like in 10 years if we continuedown this road?
Right, and it was that.
So there was noticing thedegradation.
There was also noticing likethe tripping hazards and things
with the routes that werepopping up in the fairways.

(12:20):
I have a friend of mine who isperipherally blind and can't
hear very well and when we wouldgo golf even now, I mean, if we
go to a fairway that we haven'tgotten to yet, he trips and he
always has a stumble in thereand it was a bummer to see right

(12:40):
.
So I wanted to do somethingthat would help make the course
safer for everybody to play,make it more beautiful and and
kind of highlight the bones andsome of the the things that I
was seeing in the park I want tosay that, um, I was noticing,
like you said, the roots comingup and that's

Speaker 2 (12:58):
something that I was noticing was that there are more
and more roots, and it wasspecifically what is it?
Is it fifth, no 16?
Is the the old hill one?
Yeah.
Watching how that just startedto wash away, especially with
having Bud Pell gone, you couldtell where people have been
walking more and more.

Speaker 1 (13:17):
Getting that increase in traffic?

Speaker 2 (13:18):
at.

Speaker 1 (13:18):
NAD, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3 (13:20):
So I don't have a trained eye for this type of
stuff.
What are some of the thingslike you talk about the course
degrading and also for ourlisteners, like what are some of
the telltale signs and thethings that you look for as a
trained?

Speaker 1 (13:35):
professional Sure.
So I am trained.
Just to be really clear, I amtrained in agroecology, which is
the study of the ecology ofagricultural systems.
However, a lot of those thingstransfer over, and one of the
things that is very notable iswhat Jenny was just saying is
that the roots popping upthrough the topsoil is actually

(13:57):
a really bad sign, because thatmeans that the topsoil has
eroded enough that a distancefrom the tree we're not talking
about like roots, just kind ofpopping up right next to a tree
Roots will come up and they'llgo into the ground and they'll
anchor down.
But the feeder roots of a treeare right there around the
surface.
We call it a drip line.
So if you look at a tree canopy,where the tree canopy comes to

(14:21):
its terminal diameter, like itscircle, and and it drops down,
that, where it drops downstraight down from the farthest
reaches of the branches that'scalled the drip line and in from
there to the trunk, is theprimary, uh, feeder roots of a
tree.
And this goes, generallyspeaking, for all trees.
Okay, very generally speaking.

(14:42):
Um, if you start to see roots,anchor roots, which are these
thick knobby roots that you cansee in in nad park right now,
these thick knobby roots poppingup, that's an indication that
those anchor roots, which tendto be a little bit lower, are
now higher than your feederroots.

(15:03):
So generally, generally,they'll be about parallel, but
if they're higher, that meansthe feeder roots are going down
lower.
And in NAD Park in particular,we have a high water table,
which means the water is reallyclose to the soil surface and
there's a shrinking depth ofsoil that the trees can get
nutrients and a shrinking depthin which they can anchor.

(15:24):
And that's why in some of thewindstorms that we had, like a
couple of years ago, big treeswere coming down because they
were getting blown over, becausethey don't have that anchor.
So that's one thing to watchfor.
I know that was a bunch of likestuff and we can get into a
little bit more if we want to,but generally speaking, you
don't want to see roots comingup.
Okay, so that's one thing.

(15:45):
Uh, another thing that I wasnoticing is there's a lot of
noxious weeds in there that aretaking root.
Um, there's things calledbuttercup.
Uh, there's stinky Bob, there'sa couple of, like Ivy Holly, um
some other invasive speciesthat are are taking hold in that
park, and um other than that, Imean it's looking at the park

(16:05):
itself.
There is a good diversity oftrees.
It's still a pretty decentforest and we're catching it
right at the right time, I think, to restore the park.
It's not too far gone, right.
This isn't a landscape that ispast its prime and it's never
coming back.
We can absolutely restore this,and we have plans to do not

(16:25):
only soil restoration butplanting in the park and bring
the diversity of plant speciesback.

Speaker 3 (16:31):
It's a gorgeous property.

Speaker 1 (16:32):
It really is.

Speaker 3 (16:33):
And Nat Park's also many, many years ago I think,
where I went and played like oneof my first rounds of disc golf
ever and I only played one andit was kind of hokey in this
weird sport and I never reallycame back to it but I had a lot
of fun.
And then, like you, uh, theCOVID dawned, the uh, you're

(16:54):
really getting into the discgolf and bonding over disc golf.
So kind of a fun littlesidetrack story there well, I
was gonna say so.

Speaker 2 (17:03):
I grew up in the area and I actually used to play on
the playground at nad park as akid that sandpit area there was
that little playground, whatever.
And um then, when I had my kidsback in 2008 2009 area, um, my
former mother-in-law worked atthe scout shop, which is right
across the way right, so I spenta lot of time at nad park and,

(17:26):
you know, avoiding disc golf,but one of the things I remember
about the scout shop was thatpeople were studying the ecology
of the the creatures living onthe roof, because it was like
its own little ecosystem andthat's why they never repaired
the roof interesting yeah andthere's still a bunch of what we
call in um the.

Speaker 1 (17:48):
The term for that is epiphytes.
So you have these ferns thatare coming out of tree branches
and things.
Those are called epiphytes, andthat roof is absolutely covered
in moss and epiphytes and it's.

Speaker 2 (17:58):
It's awesome I love it too.

Speaker 1 (17:59):
It's a beautiful roof , yeah yeah, it's unfortunately,
I think, actually rottingthrough now.
Yeah so the city may have to dosomething about that.
I'm not.
I'm not gonna speak for thecity.
I'm not sure exactly whatthey're gonna do, but they're
gonna do something about iteventually so talk about, uh,
soil restoration, because I haveno idea about that.

Speaker 3 (18:19):
What are your plans to do the soil restoration?

Speaker 1 (18:21):
yeah.
So, um, let's, let's talk, uh,let's talk what plants need,
okay.
Okay, so, the a plant generally, like, as I, as I was saying
earlier, their feeder roots aregenerally in that top, let's say
, foot or two feet of soil depth, and that's because there's a
lot of microbe activity.
So you have a lot of bacteriaand you have a lot of fungi and

(18:45):
you've got all sorts of littlemacro creatures like worms and
things that are pooping andgiving plants, uh, nutrients
that they can suck up, right,and so that's all in, like the
top foot of the soil, generallyspeaking.
Then the trees, which areincredibly efficient.
Uh, I like to think of trees asentities because I'm that kind

(19:06):
of hippie.

Speaker 2 (19:08):
It's because you play disc golf.

Speaker 1 (19:10):
It's because I play disc golf and I've seen them
reach out and grab my disc.

Speaker 3 (19:13):
Don't tell me otherwise when you're not
looking.
They move, they do, they do,they do.

Speaker 1 (19:19):
And there's the little elves underneath those
ferns that pull your disc in.
Those little fern elves, theysteal discs.
And the elves underneath thoseferns that pull your disc in as
a little fern elves, they, they,they steal discs.
And the squirrels are the discgolf gods.
Yeah, the squirrels, right, thesquirrels, the squirrels.
So there's a bunch of nutrientsin the top, that top, uh foot
or so, and so the way that uhmost forests will produce that

(19:43):
those nutrients is they droptheir leaves right or they have
they.
The tree will fall over and itwill eventually uh rot away and
go into become soil.
Okay, so that's a forest rightum that is primarily made up of
like woody debris and leavesthat's it.
It's just that, and then thatfeeds the microbes.
The microbes like um, the, the,the degrade that and then they

(20:08):
make it available to the plantsas nutrients.
So what we're doing for soilrestoration here is very
different than you would see ina manicured landscape Like you
would a home.
If you're doing manicuredlandscaping, you're bringing in
compost, you're bringing in topsoil, you're putting on like
thick layers of different kindsof mulch, you're acidifying the
soil, you're doing all sorts ofdifferent things to like
micromanage it.

(20:28):
What we're doing is justputting down mulch from native
trees in the area.
That's it.
That's all we're doing, and bydoing that we're protecting the
soil from being eroded by foottraffic and rain and allowing
those microbes the chance tostart to eat away at those.
At that mulch, which is a woodyit's just woody debris, right

(20:48):
and it's got some leaves in it.
It's got some needles in itpine needles in it, not needles
syringe needles, pine needles,right so it's all safe and all
that is will be degraded downinto what's uh called humus, not
hummus.
You don't want to dip your breadin it and eat it, it's humus.
I don't know.

(21:09):
You might want to, you mightwant to Definitely take your
toddlers down and let them eatlike native soil.
It's great for their immunesystem.
That's well documented.
For myself, I find a lot of joyin getting muddy, but yeah,
humus is this kind of likemicrobial soup that allows um
trees and plants in a forest toabsorb nutrients.

(21:31):
So all we do to make thathappen is mulch and, in our case
, and then, and by directingpeople um in the fairways, by
using paths, we keep them fromgoing off just wherever in the
forest and wherever in thefairway, and that allows those
areas that have generally justbeen trampled on to rest and

(21:54):
rebuild the soil themselvesnatively.
And we're going to be doingthat with replanting too, which
we can get into a little bitlater is there a way you can get
my disc to stay like not so allover the fairway?
No, no, that's all you, Brandon.

Speaker 2 (22:13):
So, with that in mind , as part of the restoration
process, would I mean somecourses, yes, but like for Nat,
would you consider saying likethis area is OB, Like if it got
bad enough, would you say wehave to put in an OB over here
so that this area can berestored.

Speaker 1 (22:31):
Yeah, and just to clarify, I will answer that
question from my own point ofview.
But just to clarify, the NADRestoration Project.
We're actually only focused,strictly focused, on the
restoration side of things andwe're leaving.
There's another organization inour area I know majority of our
listeners for this podcast arein the Kitsap area and some

(22:52):
nationwide but in our area wehave a great organization called
the West Sound Disc GolfAssociation and they are really
responsible for how the courseplays.
So where they put the tee pads,where they put the baskets, you
know how, if they do any course, actual, like fairway changes,
they'll do that.
And then we'll come in and, youknow, mulch that fairway Right,

(23:13):
and so there'll be the onesthat will decide whether or not
a certain area is is hazard, obor out about, like you know, off
limits entirely or whatever.
I personally think that,depending on the fairway,
hazards will play one way andOBs will play another way, and

(23:35):
if it's difficult to see an areawhere a disc has crossed a line
, just call it a hazard right.
And play it from where it lies.
Don't do a drop zone Right andplay it from where it lies.
Don't do a drop zone oranything, just play it from
where it lies.
So let's take hole two at NAD.
Excuse me, hole two at NAD is,I think, a 268 foot throw.

(23:56):
It drops 20 feet from a ridgedown into an area.
That's got a lot of sensitivesoil to it right.

Speaker 3 (24:03):
It's kind of a wetland down there when it rains
especially yeah, so wetland isuh, it's not a perennial wetland
okay, yeah excuse me, it's, uh,considered an ephemeral stream.

Speaker 1 (24:14):
What that means is that it it comes in with the wet
season and then during thesummer it's gone right, it's dry
in that area.
So that's, that's the ephemeralnature.
It's, it's there and it's notour intermittent stream, and
that area in particular used tohave a trail that like walked
right through it, right,remember that I remember that.
Yeah, and it was just sloppy andslippery and it was actually

(24:35):
not.
It wasn't unsafe, but it wasn'tsuper secure soil, right, yeah,
and so that area in there whichis at the bottom of the fairway
is super pretty and, I think,making that section a hazard.
I have a YouTube video that wejust did for the project in

(24:56):
which I kind of show it off alittle bit.
It's hard to see because it'sin the snow, but there's a
graphic that describes it, andin that video you can see the
area that I would think wouldwork well as a hazard.
Now, that again is up to theWSDGA, but the way that it would
work in my mind is a hazard.
It would go in there, you wouldtake a footbridge into that
area, you would get your discwith retrieval stick and then

(25:18):
you either walk it out and throwit from where you walked in, or
you throw it from one of thefoot bridges or something like
that.
You know you just can you treatit like a hazard, um, and then
the access road at the end,right.
So there's that access roadright behind, like 30 feet or so
past the basket yeah man, ifyou overshoot the basket that
far on that hole and you go intothat access road ob right

(25:40):
because you know where that wentout, does that make sense?

Speaker 2 (25:44):
He knows right where you're talking about, because
he's over there often, or heends up at the B basket for four
sometimes.

Speaker 3 (25:54):
Somehow I managed lately to flip up a zone and it
went to B basket.
On what is that?
Five, Four, Four.
Dial it back bro it's weird man, it's weird you live by the
power, you die by the power.
I guess so man, you know I'mnot bragging about it.

(26:19):
It took a lot of hard work anda lot of dedication to get to
that point, and I'm justgrateful to be able to play like
that.
Um, however, the control andthe you know, learning the
different touch and everything,because it's so much different.

Speaker 2 (26:34):
Uh, that's been a little bit more of a task and
not knowing you can throw thatfar and having the kid with us
trying to find it.
We eventually found it undersome leaves way over there and
it's like, oh, my disc could beanywhere.

Speaker 1 (26:49):
I saw a guy throw a fairway driver out there today
while I was working in the parkand we actually it was a dark
fairway driver with an orangerim.
Oh goodness.
Oh man, it went into that.
I think it's salmonberry andthimbleberry that are back there
.
It's kind of like a big hedgeof mystery plants that are just
kind of all jumbled togetherlike any kind of Northwest

(27:12):
forest, and it went back inthere and it took us probably 15
minutes to do it.
So one of the things that Ithink would be great and I want
to put this to a vote to thecommunity, and the community
here in the Kitsap will see alot more graphics that are
votable in the future, right nowwe're just laying out the
pathways, but as we get intoplanting and as we get into
things that will actually kindof change infrastructure and or

(27:34):
design.
That would change the play inminor ways.
We'll be putting that to a votefor the community.
Vote for the community.
What I would like to see islike thicker plants like that
are perennial and evergreen,like a rhododendron, like a
hedge rhododendron at the backend of that, right next to the
access road, so that you're nothaving to go and lose your desk.

Speaker 3 (27:56):
Yeah Right, kind of like a geo fence type of thing.

Speaker 1 (28:00):
Yeah and that's yeah.
That's a great way of lookingat it Eco fence.
Eco fence yeah sure, that wouldbe a great way of looking at it
.
Eco-fence Eco-fence yeah sure,that would be a great way of
looking at it, and havingsomething like that at the end
of the fairway would, I think,help play, you know it would
help the golfers along and itwould also keep.
There's another planting that Iwould like to do that would

(28:20):
protect, actually, the blue padon hole one.
So we have red pads and we haveblue pads.
In that park we also have along basket and a short basket
and that the blue pad isconsidered the more technically
difficult pad to throw from.
But it's also if you get alittle bit of a turn on a disc
and it doesn't fade out and itgoes dead straight down the down

(28:42):
the gap of the fairway when youflip up a zone when you flip up
a zone.
When you flip up a zone, itcould end up going to that blue
pattern endangering somebodythat's on that pad.
Now, I've never seen thathappen, Like where somebody's
actually had to duck, but thepoint being there that you know
it improves safety of the parkand you know that's how we're
thinking about designing thiscourse and, I think, ways that,

(29:05):
as courses develop over time andwe're going to see a lot more
of this need of restoring parks,maintaining parks, using
ecological whether that's plantor some sort of change, like
water in a course to help theplay out.

(29:31):
So it's not like just sayinghere's an open ball golf course,
here's some whiskers, that'syour fairway.
You can see the fairway, but itis made up of ecological and
natural barriers or naturaltargets to throw at, and I would
love to see disc golf movingmore in that direction.
So it's more of a naturalexperience.

Speaker 3 (29:49):
Well, yeah, and that's more enjoyable for the
player too, because there's moreto look at, more to experience,
more to be around, and a lot ofpeople go disc golfing to have
that time with nature andreground themselves.

Speaker 2 (30:02):
Yeah, and I was going to say that.
You know, I keep saying this.
I think it really honors thespace too by, you know, taking
wherever it is and finding whatis that thing that I want people
to be able to see.
How do I honor this and keepthis so that people can see it
years and years and years downthe road too?

Speaker 1 (30:19):
Yeah, yeah, and it'll develop too.
There's actually a you knowthat stump at like right dead
center of the fairway on holetwo.
It's like burned out now yeah.
So that apparently used to be alarge maple or something and it
looks like a maple stump.
It doesn't.
It looks like hardwood becauseit's been like that for a long
time.
Right next to it is a mound ofsoil and that soil is all eroded

(30:46):
down.
You can see the rocks coming upthrough it.
It's very compact.
I would love to put a crabappletree there, because in the
spring it would be beautiful.
It'd be all this pink flowersand everything just popping, and
it's a nice dense tree.
So if a disc goes in there,right, it's gonna drop out, it's
just gonna drop flat.
It's not gonna kick in there,right, it's going to drop out.
It's just going to drop flat.
It's not going to kick off.
Funky right.

(31:06):
And that would be the one thatwould be right in front of that
blue pad.

Speaker 3 (31:09):
I think that would look beautiful.
I'm picking up what you'reputting down.
That's cool.

Speaker 2 (31:13):
Yeah, I am going to put in a plug though.
So on hole 17, right in frontof.
So there's the weird stumpthat's kind of laying down with
the tree behind it.
So that's stump.

Speaker 1 (31:26):
So are you talking about the tea?
Are you talking about what?

Speaker 2 (31:29):
From the teapad of the red when you walk past it.
The leaning tree, the leaning,big leaning tree.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (31:34):
Oh yeah, We'll talk about it.
Oh yeah, let's get into it thatlittle stump right there.

Speaker 2 (31:38):
I call that my dragon because it looks like a
sleeping dragon to me.
So I always pet it on the wayby.
I love that.
Yes, I love that.

Speaker 3 (31:46):
Can you put it on the front of the course?

Speaker 1 (31:48):
so that we hit less trees, or she can rub it for
good luck for her round.

Speaker 3 (31:53):
Yeah, exactly yeah.
Yeah.
Before we tee off yeah, yeah,that tree.

Speaker 1 (32:01):
So NAD Park has a lot of natural obstacles to it
trees that have fallen and thecity of Bremerton, which has
been an incredible partner inthis project.
They have, for the last 20years, really been treating that
park like a forest and in a lotof ways, that has been a great
benefit.
It's also the thing that heldthe park back from being

(32:22):
maintained.
But, now we're like full on intointo it and I think we've seen
this great marriage so far inour uh partnership of having a
forest, but also recognizingthat we have 40 000 rounds
played there a year.
That's like and that was 2023numbers.
We're 108 rounds a day thisyear, in 2024, we dropped a
little bit, so get your u-Discsout and your app and mark your

(32:45):
rounds, but we were down to 93rounds a day still.

Speaker 3 (32:52):
That's still a lot.

Speaker 1 (32:53):
Yeah, that's like what 35,000 rounds a year or
something.
I mean that is a ton of trafficgoing through that park.
Oh my gosh and they'rerecognizing that there's so much
foot traffic going throughthere.
So we're working with them toacknowledge and identify trees

(33:14):
that may be a risk, trees thatare leaning, that aren't a risk,
trees that are staples of thecourse, that are obstacles and
if they were gone wouldcompletely change play of a
whole.
And that one on 17 you'reyou're talking about.
I mean we're talking about awhat?
80 foot or something tree it'shuge, huge tree it's a huge.
The root ball on that thing issix feet tall.
No, maybe it's not.
Maybe it's like four and a halfno, no, no, you're on, am I?

(33:35):
you're on track, oh man it'shuge right huge and that thing
fell across the the fairway,shot the tee shot of the blue
pad and has made that hole oneof the most technically
difficult tee shots that I'veand not.
I've played maybe about 50different courses in the four
years that I've been playing andI have never seen a tee shot

(33:58):
more difficult and more nuancedthan that shot.
You got to beat it, you got tobeat the tree, you really got to
beat it.
Do you go under it or do you goover it?

Speaker 3 (34:07):
Oh boy, I hit it, you hit it.
It depends on how I'm feelingthat day.
I don't know, hey, if I couldput a plug in.
You know, on 17,.
There's that little itty bittyone that's maybe two inches
around, that sticks up in themiddle of the fairway the one
that's stripped of all its yeahif that one just happened to win
away, I wouldn't be sad aboutit yeah, so um no not I can't do

(34:30):
that I've actually I've had,I've had directed from the city,
like we will not touch any treethat's standing, even unless
it's an absolute uh risk to thethat's good players yeah that's
good though yeah, and I like it.

Speaker 1 (34:44):
I like that, I there are.
There's a one on 14, right inthe middle of the backhand t
shot oh man, it has robbed me ofso many good shots.
Yeah, oh yeah, yeah, no, I feelyou and there's the one that I
think is going to be.
The city said they're going totake this down and I I hope that
they do, just because I thinkit's actually a very unsafe tree

(35:04):
, is what we call the tree ofshame among my friends, and
that's the one on hole nine.
It's the big dead snag right inthe middle right in the middle.

Speaker 2 (35:16):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (35:17):
The city and I went out there and we were reaching
in and grabbing chunks of woodout of it.

Speaker 3 (35:21):
You can see where we were.
We were like oh, that's whatthat was, that's what that was,
that's what that was we were.
We were somebody was messingwith it, yeah well, we were, but
we were.

Speaker 1 (35:28):
we were exploring to see how rotted out that thing is
just punky.
But in Arborist talk is calledpunky.
It's just like rotted out wood.
Pull it out and squeeze waterout of it like yeah, yeah it's
punky, so um that whole, thatwhole tree, eventually will have

(35:50):
to come down.
Um, if it doesn't come down, insome of the winds we've been
having around here, yeah, youknow, yeah, I just keep thinking
that someone's gonna hit itwith a disc.

Speaker 2 (35:57):
Just the right way, and it's just gonna I want to be
that guy.

Speaker 3 (36:00):
I really want to be that guy.
Yeah, wouldn't that besomething to see, though it's
like you hit the disc just right, and then the whole freaking
thing.

Speaker 1 (36:09):
I've seen somebody take a limb out doing that.
In my first year disc golfing,my buddy and I went out to
fairgrounds and he had a limband it just hit it just right
and this whole thing just camefalling out of a tree.
You're like, wow, man, put alittle power on it.

Speaker 3 (36:21):
Hot tip, though, on hole.
What is it, seven?
That tree on the right thatguards the fairway, that is
hollow in the middle, and if youget somebody to get up in there
, you can probably find a bunchof discs down in the middle of
that tree.

Speaker 4 (36:36):
You think, oh, we know, oh really, we've seen it
happen.

Speaker 2 (36:39):
Oh wow, is that where mine got lost Down in the
middle?
And Rochelle, are you talkingabout fairgrounds?

Speaker 3 (36:48):
Yeah, fairgrounds, oh , you're talking about
fairgrounds.

Speaker 2 (36:50):
Yeah, that was Michelle Lynch.

Speaker 1 (36:53):
Yeah, that's who it was.

Speaker 2 (36:54):
There's a maple on the right.
It's that before you walkacross the street, that hole.
Yeah, so there's a big maplehere on the right, that's split
and she caught a disc right inthe middle of it and it went
down in there.
It's hollow, it's hollow oh, noway.

Speaker 3 (37:13):
So there's probably some discs down in there.
Yeah, yeah, if you get to takea ladder out there.

Speaker 2 (37:18):
So you know you've got about 40 people gonna get it
yeah, michelle's favoritefavorite river is in there if
you're, if you're listening tothis podcast.
Michelle would like her riverback.

Speaker 3 (37:27):
But just a quick descriptor for the listeners out
there that aren't familiar withthis course.
So NAD Park is the NavalAmmunition Depot.
That's what it stands for.

Speaker 1 (37:37):
Correct, yeah, naval Ammunition Depot yeah.

Speaker 3 (37:39):
And it's a very popular place for disc golf, of
course, and it's very noticeablebecause the landmark is the big
jet that's out front of it withthe teeth and everything.
A classic fighter jet.

Speaker 1 (37:52):
That's right.
Yeah, If you're from the area,it's at the intersection of
Austin Drive and Kitsap Way.
Yeah, and for our listeners outthere, it's a really really cool
disc golf course, if you'reever able to get out there, and
it's my understanding that thereare what four different layouts
that are playable there and I Imean, I think you could say the

(38:12):
four different layouts, so youhave the red short, red to long,
blue to short, blue to long,but then you can do alternating
holes and stuff like that.
Like you know, red to shortthere's a lot of combinations
right yeah, I think I did themath on it.
There were like 72 combinations,which is stupid, like it's just
like nobody's actually going toplay 72 different combinations
of that course.

Speaker 2 (38:31):
And then there's the short pitch and putt up front.

Speaker 1 (38:33):
Right, the discovery course, yeah.

Speaker 3 (38:35):
Now I heard once upon a time that this course was
designed so that like red shortswas like easier,
beginner-friendly course, andthen the Blue Longs were
supposed to be like the 1,000rated.
It was supposed to hit the fullspectrum, from the easiest
course to the most difficultcourse in the county.
Is that?

Speaker 1 (38:56):
accurate.
I mean at my level of playingdisc golf, yeah, I would say
that's accurate.
I think the Blue to long is sotechnically difficult.
It's, it's hard.
Yeah, there's tiny, tiny gapsand and if you like wooded disc
golf, you're in the Washingtonstate area and you want to make
a trip out to nad park and justdo it.

(39:17):
It's so worth it.
Bremerton.
But the park itself.
You can warm up.
If you're a thousand rated discgolfer, you can warm up.
I've got a great story about LAHanson, don't let me forget.

(39:42):
You can warm up on reds andthen to short and then you can
really challenge yourself onthose blue to longs, because
some of the like we were talkingon 17, or the blue to long on
two, oh my Lord, that is a toughshot.
It's a hard hyzer.
So it's not stock hyzer, we'retalking like a spike hyzer.
But you don't have the ceiling.
So you've either got to threadit like a straight shot down the

(40:07):
left side of the fairway or youshoot off at a 45-degree angle
and it's got to go around anentire area into a gap and then
miss all the ghost trees, allthe guardians, and somehow land
within putting distance of theblue basket, the long basket
With nothing in the way.

(40:28):
With nothing in the way, and ifyou manage to do that you can
get a birdie.
But this is a par three and itwould be an easy par four.
So it's a great par three, butit's hard, it's really hard.

Speaker 3 (40:42):
Yeah, oh yeah, I know exactly.
Yeah, yeah, oh yeah, I knowexactly.
Yeah, yeah, I like playing theblue to longs.
Every once in a while I likethe challenge.
But you say that you're inWashington Woods Golf.
It's like we don't really get achoice If you're in Washington,
you're playing Woods Golf.

Speaker 1 (40:58):
There's some growing ball golf courses out there and
you have like Kayak Point.
You have down in olympia.
You've got um delphi, delphiright, you know, and I I think
those are fine, but I think thejoy of disc golf and the disc
golf experience in the woods issomething completely.
It's a totally different beast.

(41:19):
And when you're good at thatkind of golf and you can then go
to translate that to accurateshots, you know, on a on a golf
course, I don't know about thatright like you've got the
distance you've got a full game.
But if you're playing insomewhere like iowa, no offense
to ganaber, but if you'replaying in a place like iowa and
you've got no trees, you don'thave the experience to work

(41:42):
around trees.
Here in washington state wehave so many in the northwest in
general we have so many treesthat you have to know your
release points, you have to knowyour angles, you have to know
your discs and what they'regoing to, how they're going to
thread you know, through allthese, these gaps it's so bad
that when we get out to the ballgolf courses, we don't know
what to do because we play inthe woods and it's like I think,

(42:07):
all right.

Speaker 2 (42:08):
so if this was similar like I'm playing hole
one at Delphi and I'm like I'mthinking, oh, it's kind of like
you know one of the shots in thewoods.
How do I get my disc to go thisway?
Well, I could do it with thetrees, but in the open field I
end up going all the way overhere to the left, past the OB.
It's like my disc never doesthat when it's in the wood.

(42:29):
It's just like it's a mentalblock for me that.
I have a really hard time withthe big open courses.

Speaker 1 (42:36):
I've had a hard time personally with distance
management and depth perceptionin open courses when, when I I
leave the woods I'm like, ohyeah, no, that I've got that.
That's 100, you know 100 feet.
Or 125 feet.
Oh no, it's 250 feet from whereI am, but I can't tell because
I don't have the trees to tellme.

Speaker 3 (42:55):
You know the background and the foreground
will play tricks on your eyes.
That's for sure you know, whenI get out to those open courses
I get all excited and I'm likeokay, I can finally bomb.
You know, it's not.
It's not 18 uh, 200 to 250 footshot shapes.
It's let's wind up and let herrip and let's get those.
You know 300, 350, 400 footshots and uh.

(43:16):
But then I end up losing all mycontrol and end up going ob
anyway so?

Speaker 1 (43:23):
so you're saying so basically, that when you throw
in the woods it's the tree'sfault, but when you're throwing
in the golf courses.

Speaker 4 (43:32):
it's the course's fault.
It's always the course's fault.
Yeah, it's the wind.

Speaker 3 (43:36):
Those OBs you know there shouldn't be there.
Agreed, it should just be afree for all.
Agreed.
All right.
So what else can you tell?
What other initiatives do youhave going with the NAD Park
Restoration Project?

Speaker 1 (43:51):
Yeah.
So I'll go over our goals alittle bit.
Yes, please.
So the way that we see thisproject is we see it as a and I
say we because it is more thanmyself.
So I'm the project lead, I'mthe guy that started the project
and got it going.
However, I am working with agreat crew of guys who we call

(44:12):
ourselves the NAD Rangers and goNAD Rangers.
That's our little carrying callduring our meeting.
So the NAD Rangers, we are kindof the work party planning and
the thinking group and it'sreally open.
So we're not a 501c3.
We're hoping to be soon and Ican talk a little bit Now.

Speaker 3 (44:33):
is that the NAD Rangers being the 501?

Speaker 1 (44:36):
Yeah, yeah, and I'll talk about that a little bit
because it does diverge from theNAD restoration project itself,
but we are seeing a real needfor restoration, of course, is
all across the Northwest and thecountry.
But the way that we areapproaching it is our planning

(44:58):
and thinking about what workparties we want to do, what kind
of fundraising we want to do,who do we want to partner with,
how are we going to go aboutdoing things, and we're kind of
a sounding board for each other.
But right now, the way that itworks is if you want to be there
, you're welcome, and if youdon't want to be there anymore,
that's totally fine.
It's all based on yourexcitement and enthusiasm around

(45:19):
the project, and if life getsbusy, you're not obligated to be
there, and if life gets busy,you're not obligated to be there
.
We really want, you know, thefour of us it's myself, chris
Pendleton, matt Melanson, jayReeves and Ian Williamson the
four of us are the ones that areyeah, the four of us counting
my fingers are the ones that are, you know, kind of spinning

(45:40):
ideas with each other, and wealways I think we do a pretty
good job of checking in witheach other and saying like, hey,
you know how are we doing.
Can you be here for this?
Can you not be here for this?
What's going to work for you,what's not going to work for you
?
Like, we had a February 8thwork party set, it snowed.

Speaker 3 (45:59):
Oh yeah.

Speaker 1 (46:00):
And it was a rain or shine work party, didn't say
anything about snow, so wecanceled it and we moved it to
now, march 1st, and that wasbecause Jay and Matt were
available to run it.
I just happened to have the dayoff from the hospital.
It's usually my weekend to work.
I'm a nurse by profession andso I'm going to be able to join

(46:21):
the guys and I've been workingout there this week kind of
getting things ready for it.
But that's kind of how we worktogether as a group.
So yeah, so that's the NADrestoration project, the NAD
Rangers, and I lost track of theoriginal question, but you want
to repeat that and maybe I canget back on track.

Speaker 2 (46:40):
Kind of, what are your goals like?
Oh yeah, the goals yes.

Speaker 1 (46:44):
Okay, on track, kind of.
What are your goals like?
Oh yeah, the goals, yes, okay.
So our goals are based on thedesigns that I did last year for
the city of Bremerton, and ournumber one goal is our
foundational restoration.
Now, when I say foundationalrestoration, what I mean is the
restoration or renovation of allthe T-pads to be of a similar
aesthetic, and the way thatwe're doing that right now is

(47:04):
that we have retaining blocks ona perimeter that hold in what I
like to refer to as a warningtrack of gravel and that if
you're throwing, you don't haveto be thinking am I going to
fall off this tee pad?
You know that if your foot goespast the tee pad a little bit,

(47:25):
you're going to be on gravel andyou're going to be okay.
So there's that renovation ofthe of the tee pad, didn't
somebody?

Speaker 3 (47:31):
some years ago on hole 10 fall off and break their
ankle.

Speaker 1 (47:35):
Yeah, there's been a.
There's apparently beenundocumented cases of people
hurting themselves on the teepads.
It's that and that's.
I don't know the details ofthose kind of that, and I know
there's a lot of people who arevery tentative about that, about
saying anything regardinginjuries on the tee pads,
because they don't want the cityto shut down the golf course.

(47:55):
I want to state this for therecord the city is not shutting
down NAD Park, okay.

Speaker 3 (48:02):
So it sounds like they're investing in it.

Speaker 1 (48:04):
They are.
They're investing in, in, like,just with with so much
enthusiasm and I say enthusiasmas it was a very solid word
choice when I present to the theparks commission the designs
for you know, the next upcomingholes, they're always like oh,
we're so glad to see you againand this is so great, Glad
you're doing work out there.

(48:25):
They're really into it, sothat's great.
The foundational goal for us,and that is the pads and the
fairways.
Mulching of the fairways is a24 month goal, right.
So all 18 holes, um, and that's18 tee pads, from red to the
red tee pads and then thefairways to the short.
Okay, so the reason that we didred to short is because red to

(48:48):
short is what 90% of people play, according to UDisc.
So, we want to make sure ourfoundational work addresses the
majority of the play and justgets people thinking about.
This is where I walk when Iplay NAD Park.
We're focused.
What I like to say I play NADPark, we're focused.
What I like to say is focusingthe fairways.

(49:08):
We're not narrowing thefairways.
I originally said narrowing thefairways.
What I mean is that we'regiving you a area to walk, a
path to follow.
It's called wayfinding inlandscape architecture and that
wayfinding allows us to justprotect the areas, the native
areas, from being trampled onBecause, like on hole four, it's

(49:29):
a wide fairway.
You can just walk seven peopleabreast and trample through it
and just chatting, which is fine.
I do it all the time myself.
I'm not, you know no shade toanybody.
I'm always walking with my thecard of four and you're just
walking four abreast.
That's 16-foot fairway rightthere, right.
But if we narrow it down to sixfeet and then we start putting

(49:51):
in logs to protect plantingareas and beds and things like
that, not only does it make it alittle bit more technically
challenging and a little bitmore technically fun, but then
we don't have people just kindof willy-nilly walking anywhere,
trampling on potentially youngplants that'll be sprouting and
regrowing the forest floor.

Speaker 3 (50:09):
Well, and speaking of hole one, I mean I appreciate
the fact of being able to walkup the fairway and my shoes and
my feet will be dry for the restof the round.

Speaker 1 (50:17):
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3 (50:18):
Then there's that.

Speaker 1 (50:20):
Yeah, and that's the other thing that we wanted to
address is the safety of that,because when your feet are wet
like that and you're in mud, Imean there's a good chance
you're going to slip right.
I've done it a couple of timesmyself and when it comes to that
, there's a mud puddle that wehave.
It's a seasonal mud puddle.
It gets nice and sloppy duringthe winter and then in the
spring it's a total mud pit.

Speaker 2 (50:43):
I was going to say you're taking a lot of liberties
by calling it a puddle, like Icall it a lake.

Speaker 1 (50:49):
I know Well the reason I don't call it a pond is
because that's a wholedifferent ecological category
which perks up the ears ofecologists who are like a pond
with an ephemeral stream.
Tell me more.
Are there salmon in there?
And there's not.

Speaker 2 (51:05):
There's not, that would be hilarious if there was
just one random salmon rightthere right?

Speaker 4 (51:10):
no, somebody should take like a salmon beanie, baby
or something oh god on a stompertree belly up

Speaker 3 (51:20):
jay could knit one for you.
Oh yeah, you could.

Speaker 2 (51:23):
There we go, I'm gonna uh knit what's called yarn
bomb the course.
Oh, I would love that.
Yeah, personally I would.
I think that's amazing allright and that's actually so.

Speaker 1 (51:33):
Um the okay, ella, hansen yarn bombing.
Um, we'll get.
I love this, I want to get.
I want to talk about artists too, because I think there's such a
ripe opportunity for artists tocome in and like beautify, the
course, but that, that mudpuddle, that that mucky area,
the, the pit, the, the placewhere nobody likes to end up, on

(51:54):
hole one that is.
I've seen older disc golfers goin there and have very close
falls or have falls, and there's, there were limbs in there.
So last summer I pulled out allthe limbs in that mud pit so
that nobody can really fall ortrip or grab their foot in any
funky way and hurt themselves.
What we're planning on doing,and what we've had approval from

(52:15):
the city to do, is actuallyhave a series of three foot
bridges that go over and aroundthat pond and then have a dock
that goes out to the middle ofit.

Speaker 3 (52:24):
Oh, that's so cool yeah.

Speaker 1 (52:25):
So now, if you're on Facebook, you go to the NAD
Volunteer Stewardship Group.
That pond schematic that I drewup and presented to the city is
what our profile.
What's that landscape shot that?

Speaker 2 (52:40):
you have at the beginning, yeah, your cover page
.

Speaker 1 (52:42):
Yeah, the cover shot, that's the pond schematic that
I drew.
So that's gives you an idea ofkind of where we're shooting for
now, speaking of hazards andall that kind of thing, if you
land in that pond it's going tobe a stroke, right, like just
even if you're playing casually,your friends are probably going
to say, oh, that's, hey, havethe drop zone, be that dock,

(53:06):
that would be cool, right?
Yep, you're putting from thedock.
You know what I mean.
Like fun stuff like that.
This is how I think restoringdisc golf courses could go where
it's.
It's not about, like putting upthe like the wind sock things
that you see outside of a cardealership to make it more
difficult or, like you know,putting up fake obstacles.
You can use the naturalenvironment, you can use the
natural topography and themovement of a natural movement,
of course, to make it morechallenging and more fun now

(53:29):
you're doing all this stuff touh, regenerate the vegetation
and the soil and everything.

Speaker 3 (53:35):
are you doing anything to attract wildlife?
Are you putting in birdhousesand things of that nature?
Man, I'm really glad you askedthat, tell us about that?

Speaker 1 (53:44):
Yeah, so I would.
Right now we have a couple, Ithink, just replanting and
providing food for seasonalbirds and then stacking up some
of the debris intentionally thewood and fallen logs and
branches and things and stackingthose in piles that provides

(54:06):
rodent cover, rodents notnecessarily being rats, but
squirrels what squirrels yeah,oh, squirrels, squirrels, we got
this, we got this um, so haveyou could have squirrel habitat.
Um, you can have other habitatin those areas.

(54:27):
Uh, it's a great place fornerds not nerds for birds to
nest all the nerds and for nerdsto best there's.
There's nerds in the trees anduh, yeah, our plantings are
going to include things likesnowberries and thimbleberries
and red isure dogwood and, um,the crab apple and stuff like
that, so there will be habitatand uh, food for uh, the, the,

(54:52):
the birds and for, you know, anykind of other rodent stuff.
We really don't have any deer,but we have incredible owls
there in the park and I actuallywant to get an owl tattoo, um,
for nad park, because I just Ilove the owls there.
If you watch that YouTube videoI just posted, this is February
of 2025.
I did a AI generated image of,or video from Sora and it was

(55:16):
the owl in a rain slickerpulling a wheelbarrow full of
wood chips, which is prettyawesome.
I love the owl out there andthat's our mascot for NAD Park.

Speaker 3 (55:27):
But yeah, and then eventually I would like to get
to the point where we're puttingup bat boxes in the area I was
just going to say, with themoisture and the wetness around
there, having some bat boxes tokind of control the insect
population would be verybeneficial.

Speaker 1 (55:42):
Yeah, yeah, I think so and I think it would do.
Yeah, yeah, I think so and Ithink it would.
It would, uh, it would do welltoo, I think, if we had some bat
boxes and some otherintentional like habitat that we
we built Some owl boxes maybe.
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (55:52):
To attract more owls to the area.

Speaker 1 (55:53):
Yeah, yeah, exactly Exactly.

Speaker 3 (56:00):
Cause I mean you're got to have the natural
predators in there correct,correct yeah, gotcha yeah, so
we're.

Speaker 1 (56:06):
We are thinking along those lines in terms of all
sides of the ecology.
So everything from you knowflora and the fauna, the plants
and the animals, and um, andyeah, uh, wanting to also make
it a interesting experience touh walk through with art,
whether that's doing sculpturesout there, if you're not

(56:28):
familiar with Andy Goldsworthywork, andy Goldsworthy is a
nature artist.
That's so incredible.
And as we get into the 14th,15th, 16th hillside those three
holes they share one hillsidethere's a lot of work that needs

(56:48):
to be done with terracing andslowing down the erosion on that
hillside and I think doing thatin an artistic way and not a
sterile industrial way or acivil engineering way, but
really thinking about itcarefully, could be super cool,
like really, really interestingand fun.

Speaker 3 (57:07):
Well, and that's something I would love to see
more of, just in general, is themarriage of art and nature and
disc golf together.
Because, I think that'd just besuper cool.
You're walking through thewoods and stuff and then you
just see this cool little artpiece that just fits in so well
and it'd be like bam, you know,it make the whole thing pop yeah
, you mean not when you'rewalking through evergreen and

(57:29):
there's a random doll's head orthere just happens to be like
this iscreepy bunch of little like
there was a woody there's creepystuff out there, yeah, yeah
it's art.

Speaker 2 (57:39):
I call it art.

Speaker 3 (57:40):
It's fun well I mean, if you duct tape a banana to
the wall, I mean I still can'tbelieve.
How much did that sell?

Speaker 2 (57:47):
for a few million I don't know, I didn't buy it it
sold for a few million dollars.

Speaker 1 (57:51):
Some yahoo it's less than what you spent on discs
zing yeah, you, you know, andthe guy that bought that banana
yeah took it off the wall andate it.
Yeah, it was like dude, youjust bought a 30 cent banana
that had been yeah you know,going brown up there and

(58:14):
ripening and who knows how many,for four million dollars or
whatever.

Speaker 3 (58:17):
Well, and we then we also live through the nft thing,
the non-fudgeable token thing,online.

Speaker 2 (58:24):
It's like yeah, yeah, like why, but huh yeah yeah I
will say, though, that one of myfavorite things and um I always
go out and I take pictures ofevery single trillium that I
find and so finding the littlepockets where there's trilliums
on like whole um.
Eight has a lot on the hill andthen there's some hidden

(58:46):
between the walkway in 6 and 14there's a couple of trillions
she's got them gps, and youwonder why our rounds take four
hours yeah, I have to take apicture of every single, every
single one of them.

Speaker 3 (58:57):
Yeah right and then she gets this notification.
Her cloud is full and it's likewhat have you been doing all
day?

Speaker 1 (59:05):
you know, and that's actually really cool because
they're actually are, they'reindicator species of a healthy
ecosystem and trilliums are oneof them.
So if you haven't, um, if youhave a forest, that isn't
necessarily old growth.
This is not an old growthforest, but it's.
It's established itself andit's a healthy ecosystem and
it's got healthy soil that isnot disturbed.

(59:26):
Certain species, like Trillium,that are tender, will be able
to establish themselves there,and I love that.
When I go through NADD 2 and Isee this Trillium, so I'm like
you know, it's like seeing thegumption of the park, like it's
got it.
It wants to be beautiful, andI'm not saying that NAD isn't

(59:46):
beautiful.
Okay, I want to go back to thata little bit.
What I'm saying is, with the eyethat I've had trained into me,
I can see that the park ismissing some major components
that are not there, that used tobe there the reason that I say
that is because, if you lookdown and hole two is again a

(01:00:07):
great example of this and thisis why hole two is the icon of
the NAD restoration project it'sferns, and those ferns have a
foot between each one of them,right.
What that indicates to me isthat that's like your, that's
your base plant palette.
The ferns are there, but that'sbecause those things's your base
plant palette the ferns arethere, but that's because those

(01:00:27):
things will live forever, right,and they, they just establish
themselves and they're superhardy plants.
They have a role in theecosystem, a lot like alders
they will.
They will drop their uh, theferns every year.
If you look, if you look underthose ferns right now, those
ferns have the old fern frondsfrom last year laying on the

(01:00:48):
ground, protecting the moistureand building soil underneath
those ferns from the decayingmatter of the of the fern fronds
.
Right, that's how theyestablish themselves, that's how
they keep themselves and that'swhere they house the elves that
steal your discs true storydirty elves, those elves, dirty
elves.

Speaker 2 (01:01:05):
They took Kaylee's disc within four feet at
fairgrounds.
Like those, elves work extrahard over at fairgrounds.

Speaker 3 (01:01:12):
They do, oh my gosh, they do Over time.
They really do Over time but.

Speaker 1 (01:01:16):
I think fairgrounds is actually a really good
example.
If you look in that gully, offof what hole.

Speaker 3 (01:01:21):
Five, five and six, yeah, whole five and six.
Yeah, five and six.

Speaker 1 (01:01:24):
Right that gully that gully is a really good example,
if you look down into that, ofwhat the natural forest would
look like.
Now, we can't disc golf insomething like that.
That's just chaos.
But you can take the elementsfrom the natural forest and
space them out and make themlook beautiful in the fairway so

(01:01:45):
that you have the sameexperience.
But you're not like walkingthrough and trying to manage a
monstrosity of a forest.
It's managed for height, it'smanaged for distance, it's
managed for where it lands, solike on hole two.
I'm thinking about this a lotright now because we have this
is the work party that we'reworking on this weekend If you,

(01:02:08):
if you plant dense stuff likesalal salal is a native plant up
here, that's evergreen, it'svery dense and you plant that
close to the tee pad, you canprevent erosion and you can.
It looks gorgeous, right.
But as you go farther down intolanding zones, then you get
plants that are a little bithardier, maybe more like a tree,

(01:02:34):
more like a shrub, single stem,something like that, like even
red-nosed.
Your dogwood, it's got somespace into it.
You can land in that area andthen, if you do, you could go to
throw over it.
You're not getting blocked bylike a forest of trees or a
large shrub.

Speaker 3 (01:02:48):
So you said you had a great story about Ella Hansen.
Oh yes, yeah, do tell.

Speaker 1 (01:02:53):
Okay, ella's.
I love Ella, she's so sweet, soshe came out for this is.
I love to do things right.
And I met Ella at the 2022 yeah, I think it was the 2022
Portland Open.
Okay, I went down there and shewas working with Uplay, which

(01:03:17):
is Uplay discs with um, her andum and Dustin and oh what's her
name and Ike.

Speaker 3 (01:03:32):
Oh, oh, oh.
Van Dyken no, and Ike and.

Speaker 1 (01:03:35):
Ike.
Anyway, we're going to cut thatpart out.
So, anyway, she was down therewith Uplay Discs and they were
doing a demonstration and ColeRodolin was there and Gannon
Burr was was there, and theywere all like the young guns,
right, but they were like notquite known yet and, uh, so
they're showing us, they'redemonstrating how far they can

(01:03:56):
throw cole riddallin throughlike a 600 foot, 600, like five
foot, nearly black ace, thispractice basket.
That was way at the end of this, like ball field and stuff, and
Ella was hanging out and Iactually didn't know Ella very
well at the time, like as aplayer, right, I haven't,
actually I had not heard of her.
And I just walked up and I said,hey, excuse me, I see you're

(01:04:17):
part of this, like this group,yeah, and she was like, yeah,
yeah.
I said, hey, I'm looking forcoaches in the seattle area.
Do you know who I would talk to?
And she goes, oh, yeah, me.
And I was like, okay, yeah, soyou're some random person I just
talked to why.
You know, like what's going on?
This is somebody just trying tosell their services, right?
Or she's like, oh, you know,I'll suck this guy into 50 bucks
or whatever.
And she's like, no, no, I usedshe tells me about herself.

(01:04:40):
She used to be the captain ofthe ultimate uh you know team
and I at a ufo and and stuff.
And she was like, no, I, I'm, Ican actually.
Uh, I live up in the seattlearea and I'd be happy to give
you a lesson.
I was like sure, you know whatdo you charge?
And she told me what shecharged.
I was 50 or 60 bucks orsomething for an hour.
And then she said, you know, wecan play around afterwards.
I was like, oh, cool, thatsounds fun.
And then I of start go home anda researcher.

(01:05:02):
And wow, holy smokes.
So I did, I did two lessonswith her, I think that fall this
was like October, after theseason ended in October,
november and I said, god, she'sso good at being an instructor
so good, I mean, she's a greatgolfer, but she is such a great
instructor and I said would youlike to come and do a, uh, a

(01:05:24):
clinic in bremerton?
She goes, of course.
So she comes up, she does aclinic.
We went to this indoor uh soccerfield in our area over at
pentagrass yeah, yeah, yeah andhad a great time and afterwards,
um, myself and a couple localguys, we said hey, do you want
to go play around?
And this is January and it isdumping Like it's.

(01:05:46):
It's one of those days whereit's like an inch and a half of
rain, you know, over the courseof 24 hours, or maybe an hour, I
don't know.
It was it was dumping and she'slike, yeah, sure, we're like
you're crazy, but let's do it.
So she signed her discs andeverything and we ended up um
packing up and we went to nadpark.
Now we're on hole one and umthe two guys go first and then

(01:06:07):
ella goes and then I go right.
So we t off and ella four handsit and she hits this tree that
is just past the mud puddle andshe it the way that it hit.
I said, oh man, that's, that'sbummer, those guardian trees get
you.
And she's like, yeah, that gotme.
I was like you know, if youwere like three feet higher and

(01:06:29):
like two feet to the right, youwould have pinned that long pin,
cause you were shooting thelong pin Right.
I think it was the only pin atthe time.
Yeah.

(01:06:50):
And she goes oh okay, it wasjust totally nonchalant like
sure, kid, whatever.
Three feet up to the left shepins the basket and I was like I
mean, if you need a caddy, I'mhere for you, right on the bag.
Oh, it was amazing.
I mean, she is such a talentedlike.
That is talent on a differentlevel.
It's one thing to watch a localpro be like yeah, you know, I
had a, uh, you know a 10, 20rated round or whatever, and but
to have that level of accuracyand intention in your throw and

(01:07:14):
and it just execute it, whethershe did that on intentionally or
not, or just happened to bethis great coincidence that she
nailed exactly where I told herto throw, which I believe she
really did.

Speaker 2 (01:07:25):
Oh, oh yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:07:26):
She's just incredibly accurate.
She's such a good, yeah, so wegot.

Speaker 3 (01:07:30):
We got a chance to pal around with her at the uh
cascade challenge in 2023.
You were the scorekeeper and Iwas crowd control or something
like that.

Speaker 2 (01:07:41):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:07:41):
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:07:43):
Just super nice and she also did.
Uh, they did a women's clinic,her.
And yeah, yeah, yeah, Justsuper nice.
Yeah, and she also did.
They did a women's clinic, herand Holland.

Speaker 1 (01:07:48):
That's right.

Speaker 2 (01:07:48):
yeah, the next year, yeah so she was really really
good at teaching.

Speaker 3 (01:07:52):
Ella, if you're listening, we'd love to have you
on the podcast.

Speaker 1 (01:07:55):
Yeah, and I need another lesson too.

Speaker 2 (01:07:57):
Yeah, I think we all do, all three of us.

Speaker 3 (01:08:00):
Yeah, yeah, the intentional.

Speaker 2 (01:08:02):
Ella Hansen podcast.

Speaker 3 (01:08:04):
And Holland, bring Holland.
Bring Holland with you.
We love Holland too.

Speaker 1 (01:08:07):
Yeah, yeah, I think that you know NAD Park, as this
project grows, it is our as theNAD Rangers, as we grow into a
501c3, we want to be doing morestuff like this, but the focus
of nab, because this is our homecourse, this isn't just, you

(01:08:27):
know, hey, we're restoring the,the golf course, right, it's not
just about putting down mulch.
That's all fine and well and andand a lot of courses need that
kind of work, but our goal isactually to make this park a
national attraction and one ofthe more beautiful courses in
the entire country.
Like, not, it can be, itabsolutely can be.

(01:08:48):
Oh, absolutely, it's got somany great bones.
Like we're going to be puttingwood bridges, uh, wooden foot
bridges, throughout whole one,two, three and, uh, especially
one, two and three, but intofive as well, I think
potentially and and just havingthose kind of like fun little
aesthetics and things like thatwill make it such a cool course.
And when it is I'm sure you'veheard this, simon lazotte is

(01:09:09):
like there needs to be a like areally technical par three on
tour for the pros and I thinkand I'm not saying this lightly
I think nad park actually offerspro level difficulty from
difficulty, from the blue padsto the long tees.

Speaker 3 (01:09:25):
Yeah, I think so too.
Nothing against Shelton andMason County, but I am very
convinced that if Bud Pell wasstill open, that that's where
the Cascade Challenge would havebeen, because it's long enough.
It had the mix and thedifficulty, the elevation change
, especially the elevationchange.

(01:09:45):
But not only that, but it'scloser to a lot more
infrastructure like hotels,restaurants, businesses, things
like that.
I mean, shelton's a great city,but compared to the
conglomerate of Bremerton,silverdale, poulsbo and even
Port Orchard, it can't competewith it, right.
So I'm a firm believer that ifbud pell is still open, that the

(01:10:07):
pro tour would have been there,and you know who knows.
I mean, we have two availablecourses within the proximity of
each other.

Speaker 2 (01:10:13):
We might have been able to even have a bit at
worlds or something yeah, I wasgonna say, if you look at the
bigger tournaments, like uh thewomen's tournaments, they're at
different courses.
So even right here I mean youhave frederickson, you have
fairgrounds, you have uh nad.
I mean they're all really closeto each other.

(01:10:35):
So it it would be a good placeto have a bigger tournament
because it offers so muchvariety.

Speaker 3 (01:10:41):
Well, even even a was Washington State championship
would be pretty rad, yeah, andplay different courses, I mean
because they're so close to eachother.
I mean it could happen, yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:10:52):
Yeah, I think the only thing that NAD is missing
in fairgrounds and Fredricksonare missing is those par 4, par
5s.

Speaker 3 (01:10:58):
Well, Fredrickson has par 4s on it.
Oh, that's right.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:11:07):
They're like 280 feet , but they're tight right, tight
, tight par fours.
So, yeah, um, I think thatyou're, you're right, I think
that, um, it could.
You know, a lot of thesecourses around here could grow
and could be really somethingspecial.
I think that lends to where thenad rangers see ourselves
potentially going in the future,or at least seeing a need for
that, and that is that there area lot of courses that are

(01:11:31):
coming into operation across thecountry and across the world
and if it goes by Americanstandards of growth in 50 years,
we're going to run into issueswith maintenance, right, and
we're going to run into issueswith maintenance right, and
we're going to run into issuesof restoration.
We're going to run into issuesof too much traffic, too little
direction, too much erosion anddegradation of the landscape,

(01:11:54):
because there is, you know, thebasket and the tee pad were put
in and then you let the peoplefind their way.
Yeah.
Which can be fine, but then yougot to follow that up right To
maintain the beauty of thecourse, or then you lose it,
right?
So I think in the future, asthings grow, as we're looking

(01:12:15):
into these courses that we loveso much, I would love to get
into working with othermunicipalities to help them take
the same approach that we havewith the NAD restoration project
in the city of Bremerton andapply it, because what we're
doing with our project is at nocost to the community or the

(01:12:36):
city.
That's our goal, absolutelyfinancially independent from the
city or the community.
There's two reasons for that.
One is our city doesn't have abig parks budget, and the parks
budget that it does get usuallygoes to emergency restorations
or repairs for our parks.
Right, this is not a growthlevel budget, we're just not

(01:12:58):
that big of a city.
The other side of that is thatour community, in particular in
the Kitsap, we're tiny, we'retransient and we can't tap
ourselves too much for funds.
Right, if we do that we'regoing to burn ourselves out.
So we can't tap ourselves forfunds.
But there are a ton of boxstores around here, there's a

(01:13:20):
ton of philanthropicorganizations around here, and
with a bit of creativity and abit of salesmanship, I guess we
can sell this project and raisemoney for our group and for our
park and for the restoration andfurtherance of disc golf in our
area without ever asking for adime for our community.

(01:13:43):
Now, I say that with allawareness that we have a
fundraising tournament coming up, but with that tournament
you're getting a player pack,you're getting an opportunity to
play the course, you get tohave some fun on the course.
So this is, like you know,you're paying your standard fare
.
I think we're doing $45 as afundraiser.
You get trash panda discs.

(01:14:03):
You get to come out, you playone round to take them all and
have some fun and experience thecourse.
That money, whatever we getfrom profits for that, all of it
will go into the course.
None of us in the NADRestoration Project are taking
any kind of funds.
As a matter of fact, we put ina thousand of our own dollars
into the restoration project sofar and have spent countless
hours working with arborists andworking with local material

(01:14:27):
suppliers to get us materialsthat we need for the park.
That kind of contribution andenergy into the park, I think,
is what is needed, and so allwe're asking from the community,
all we're asking from the city,is permission.
All we're asking from thecommunity is for time, labor and
fun.
Right, come, hang out, move acouple wheelbarrows of wood

(01:14:50):
chips, eat a slice of pizza,play around and then come back
to the park and enjoy yourself.
You know, see the work thatyou've done, take pride in it,
get to know the course becauseyou're working on it.
It's a cheat code for playingat NAD.
I mean, you get to know thenuances of it.
You're like, oh yeah, there's agood landing spot up here
because I've been working upthere and I know if I land up in

(01:15:11):
this area.
I've got a clear shot to thebasket.
You start to see new lines, youstart to think about the course
in a different way.
So, to see new lines, you startto think about the course in a
different way.
So that's the way we're tryingto think as the NAD Restoration
Project.
We're trying to think aboutthis project is how can we do
this creatively, how can we dothis and bring everybody in
without having to worry too muchabout tapping people for money

(01:15:33):
and asking them for things wewant to give back to the
community that has.
I know it was a.
It was a lifesaver for me.
Um, when I first started, itwas.
I really needed something to doand and you know, I know that a
lot of people are just wantingto get into it and have some fun
, and that's what we're doing.

Speaker 3 (01:15:50):
Well, two things, uh, no, no salesmanship necessary
If businesses in the communitycould get in tune with this.
Disc golf has a big draw, Imean just for me and jenny alone
.
I mean we travel all overwestern washington to go play
disc golf courses, uh, even whenwe're not playing tournaments.

(01:16:10):
And you know, hey, new course,I haven't played that before.
Let's go out there, not tomention frequent the local
courses.
And these people have to sleep,they, they have to eat, they're
going to shop, they're going topick up their groceries and
things.

Speaker 2 (01:16:25):
While they're there, they're going to buy gas for
their cars, they're going topack the wrong clothes and have
to go buy all new clothesBecause all of a sudden they
have the wrong clothes.

Speaker 1 (01:16:35):
They came to Western Washington and forgot their
raincoat in Eastern Washington.
Yeah.
The Columbia outlet, by the way, right now is having a killer
sale If you're in the area.

Speaker 3 (01:16:45):
Oh, that's good, that's good to know, but no
salesmanship necessary.
Disc golfers come, and thething about disc golfers is disc
golfers will spend money ondisc golf, no matter how much
disc golf stuff, gear, whateverthey have, if it's disc golf,
they will spend money, and theyalso spend money in all the
peripherals too.
So if you're a business,investing in disc golf is

(01:17:08):
investing in your own business.
Really, yeah, yeah, that's areally great way of saying it.

Speaker 2 (01:17:13):
I want to advocate for, like the families out there
.
So I'm really focusing on whatit is about disc golf that you
said you know it.
You found it at a time where youreally needed it a lot of
people found disc golf at a timewhere they really needed it,
and one of the things that wedid that wasn't too popular,
necessarily was we took allseven of us out to the course at

(01:17:35):
the same time, so it was us andour kids and, yeah, we got a
lot of looks.
But then it was like, oh, it'sthat group, like they're out
there learning and watching thekids and like the kids would
have a killer shot every once ina while.
But a place like nad like Ialways see little kids there, I
see families there, and it's oneof those parks where you can

(01:17:57):
bring the kids.
It is a community and it gives.
Even if you have a kid like wetook our friend Brian and
Bridget with their kid Phoenixout there and not to nad but to
fairgrounds, and Phoenix wouldjust throw the disc giggle, go
pick it up.
Throw the disc giggle, pick itup and being able to have kids

(01:18:21):
that maybe can't communicatewell or whatever, having them
out there like nat, is a reallygreat place for that.

Speaker 1 (01:18:28):
oh, yeah yeah, I agree with that 100.
I was when I was.
For the last couple of daysI've been laying out the
pathways for two and if you,yeah, you're pink and purple,
yeah, yeah, pink, orange andyellow yeah, it's a great
combination.
Originally I was like, oh, I'llmake the beds're pink and
purple.
Yeah, pink, orange and yellow.
Yeah, it's a great combination.
Originally I was like, oh, I'llmake the beds in pink and I'll
do the pathways in orange.
I just ran out of pink and nowI need an orange.

(01:18:50):
But I've been really enjoyingseeing families some I don't
know, some I do know just comeout and enjoying the park.
I was watching one family atthe end of the intermittent
stream.
There's that big pile of logson two and there was a father, a
mother and their son and theywere seesawing one of those logs

(01:19:12):
.
And they were just having fun.
They didn't have discs with them.
They were just walking throughthe park and enjoying it, didn't
have discs with them.
They were just walking throughthe park and enjoying it and
watching families of like, likeyou know, you have four or five
kids with their, their parents,you know.
So there's, it's a group ofseven, or you know six or seven,
walking through and they'rejust like you said, they're
having fun, they're, and that'swhat it's all about.

(01:19:33):
It's just having fun.
Uh, dan glenn.
I did a video with him on, uh,the family-friendly doubles that
he ran for 16 years at nad parkand he said it's all about
having fun and it's that.
The way that he said that justhit me so hard.
It was like, dude, you're right, it's not about the.
You know.

(01:19:53):
Of course the fun part comesinto like pinning the t.
You know pinning the basket,you know from the t, and it
comes from hitting that greatflex shot eventually.
But in the beginning we allhave that raw experience of just
like throwing the disc and itgoes wherever the heck that disc
went.
You know.
You're like, oh, so that's whata beefy disc looks like.
Yeah, it's way off to the leftnow, um, and then you know, and

(01:20:18):
you don't care.
You know you're just out therehaving fun with your buddies and
you're throwing plastic in thewoods and you know hearing the
chains bang against the pole.
It's just a blast and it's sofun to see kids do that.

Speaker 3 (01:20:29):
There's something about that sound that is
addicting.

Speaker 1 (01:20:32):
What's that sound?
Sound like.

Speaker 2 (01:20:34):
That is the wrongest basket.
Like was that our Costco basketthat you recorded that from.
I swear it was our Costcobasket.

Speaker 3 (01:20:46):
No, that was actually a sample that I downloaded off
of some royalty-free website.

Speaker 2 (01:20:51):
Oh jeez, I thought you went outside and recorded it
.

Speaker 1 (01:20:53):
It was the best one they had.
What it sounds like to me islike those sleigh bells oh yeah,
you get the sleigh bells likeonceigh bells.
Oh yeah, Like once, oh gosh.

Speaker 2 (01:21:04):
So I wanted to jump in real quick and say we were
talking about the corporationsaround here.
Yeah.
Another thing I experienced isyou know, if you go out there
and put in a little bit of time,if you're looking for a way to
build your rapport with yourworkers, take them out disc
golfing shoot a couple holestogether.
Yeah, like that made such ahuge difference over at chief
kitsap when we would go out andplay, when we got our course

(01:21:27):
like it made a huge difference.

Speaker 3 (01:21:28):
So take your, take your group out there well, and
it's funny that you mentionedcorporations too, because disc
golfers will support other discgolfers.
It's that kind kind ofcommunity.
So if you have, you know, ifyou sponsor a tee or something
at one of these localtournaments or you know, sponsor
a tee sign or sponsor the NADPark Restoration Project, for

(01:21:50):
example, the local disc golfcommunity will respond to that
and favor your business overothers.
And that's just the kind ofpeople they are, is they're?

Speaker 1 (01:22:00):
they're loyalists I think that's actually a great
segue into one aspect of things,uh, with this project that I
think can really grow thisproject in a clever and creative
way.
I I thought about thisoriginally in my presentation to
the city.
The city recently brought itback up to me as an idea that
they would like to see.
And this is unique in Bremertoncity history Typically the way

(01:22:27):
that our bylaws are written.
Private entities are notsupposed to be sponsoring or
buying any section of the park.
Right, because it's a cityamenity for the citizens of
Bremerton.
However, when it comes to aproject like this, we can
actually have local businesses,small businesses, uh,

(01:22:48):
independent businesses for sure,sponsoring a fairway.
Right, as an independentcitizen, a player of the course,
you can sponsor a fairway aswell, with a contribution of
money or time, kind of like anadopt a highway, like adopt a
highway, exactly, exactly, yeah,so then you have your name on

(01:23:09):
like.
Then we'll eventually have newt-signs out there um if,
especially if they do any kindof changes with hazards or obs
or anything like that, and youcan have what I'd like to see is
a business, a monetaryvolunteer or monetary donator,
right, and then somebody who hasvolunteered their time.
So, you have three majorsponsors and that way we can get

(01:23:33):
and this is an ongoingcontribution, right?
So it might change over thecourse of a year like 2025,.
Let's say DTG Organics, downthe street on Wheaton and
Bremerton, they would say theyoffer us all the gravel we need
for the year right.
And we put their name up therepermanently because that is

(01:23:57):
something that isn't changed.
But we have somebody else whogives a $1,000 one-time donation
.
We put up their name on a newkiosk that we put in for the
year, or up on a tier platform,right.
So they say you know $1,000donation from I don't know a
haircut salon, you know a hairsalon, or something like that

(01:24:19):
right, whatever, big Apple Diner, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:24:21):
And now that?

Speaker 1 (01:24:22):
could that, could that could.
What was the one that, ohSherry's just closed on?
Yeah.
But we can do things like thatcreatively now because the city
has given us permission to dothat, which I think is so cool,
like the city is just reallythinking outside the box now,
which is really fantastic.
It allows us to see newopportunities for this course.

(01:24:45):
I think another opportunitythat, as disc golfers, we really
need to start thinking about itI'm very serious about this is
I understand that disc golf foryears has been free.
I get it, but when I'm spending$500 a month on discs alone,
just plastic oh, don't get mestarted, dude.
I know I have 450 discs at homeyou see that right there that's

(01:25:11):
a college education right.
Yeah, and I know players whohave that level of collection
discs.
They've got like 300 collectorsdiscs those are like and I know
players who have that level ofcollection discs, collectors
discs, right.
They've got like 300 collectorsdiscs.
Those are like 40 or 50 bucks apiece or whatever they were
when you bought them and they'resigned by whoever.
We put so much value on thethings that we carry through the

(01:25:33):
free course that we're playing.
I know there are people in theaudience right now listening
whose hair is starting tobristle.
I'm not asking you to play thiscourse.
I don't think that, as amunicipality, it would be fair
to say you play as a cityamenity, right that you pay like
$10 every time you play.
You play the course, but if wehad a qr code that went to a

(01:26:00):
designated bank account in thecity?
that said this is a nadrestoration or nad park disc
golf course donation and youdonate anywhere from a dollar a
t right to twenty dollars orfifty or hundred dollars,
whatever you want, I mean if youwant if you want to donate $100
, great for you.

(01:26:20):
But let's say you go every day,Every day that I have off.
When my arm was feeling good, Iwas playing one to two rounds
four days a week.
I think it's kind of within mywheelhouse of obligation to give
back something.
Yeah.
Right, and that could be time ormoney.
But if you don't have the time,maybe you know five bucks, ten

(01:26:45):
bucks, every time you play tothe maintenance of the park
gives back to the park.
Because if we don't as discgolfers, I'm just telling you
right now, if you don't as discgolfers, you're putting that on
the city and you're putting thaton the municipalities that that
maintain the park.
You're paying for it in taxdollars anyway.
You're just helping out, likereally focus that money on on

(01:27:07):
the park and making your parksomething really beautiful.
And this can be for nad park,this could be for, uh, you know,
a park in north dakota, itcould be a park in ma, wherever.
I don't know why, I just chosethe coldest possible states in
the country, but Tanzania, right, I think we're kind of getting
to that point now for spending$500 a month on discs, even $40

(01:27:30):
a month on discs.
You can give a couple of bucksevery time you play, and we're
not there yet with that, but Iwould like to see a QR code for
donations in the future.

Speaker 3 (01:27:38):
And as a city administrator, I would look at
that account, that bank accountthat you're talking about, and
if I saw money flowing in thereen masse, I would say, hey, you
know, this is a big economicdriver and we need to do more of
this, and would?
It would ultimately not onlyhelp that park in particular but
help grow disc golf around thecounty and around the city.

(01:27:59):
I mean, install more disc golfcourses.
So it would definitely havethat bleed over effect.

Speaker 1 (01:28:06):
You have a really good point there, brandon,
because I think if they see thattoo let's say, you have one
disc golf course in the area thecity is more likely to say all
right, the community camethrough and we raised $20,000
over the course of the year.
We'll match half of that.
We'll give ten thousand dollarsto, you know, do things that
you need for the park, and thatcould be.

(01:28:26):
You know, we're not justtalking about paying for people
like myself at all.
What I'm saying is like wecould be putting in plants, we
could be building coolerinfrastructure, we could be
commissioning artists to comeand do really cool stuff in the
park I was gonna say.

Speaker 2 (01:28:39):
one of the things that would be really cool is,
since I've worked with tribalschools for a couple of years
now, giving them the opportunityto put Lushootseed language
signs Like if you're putting the.
Salal out there and giving themthe opportunity to say, hey,
this is what we use it for,cause I'm pretty sure I've seen
some of the cedar trees wherethey've stripped off the bark.

Speaker 1 (01:29:00):
They have all through Ned, all through Ned.

Speaker 2 (01:29:02):
And so you know having them put a sign there of
okay this is why we did this,you know it would be really cool
to do that.

Speaker 1 (01:29:10):
That that's.
I'm so glad you said that,jenny.
So in my ultimate five-yearplan.
So we talked about the first 24months, right?
So the first 24 months is likeestablishing the tee pads and
the fairways.
The next, like 24 months or so,would be planting things out
and allowing the plantings tomature.
And then in the fifth year,what I would love to do and this

(01:29:30):
is in my original presentationis to have those kinds of
educational signs.
So it's for that family.
That's seesawing on the log.
They're out there and they'relike oh, we're seesawing on this
log.
What's this big pile of sticksand timber and shrubs and stuff
behind us?
Oh, that's habitat for rodents.
That's so cool.
And look up, there's a bat boxor an owl box, you know.

(01:29:52):
And what's the relationshipbetween the two?
It's no longer just a disc golfexperience for the disc golfers
, it's an educational experiencefor disc golfers and visitors
alike to go through there.
And I'm so glad that youbrought up the Salish tribes in
the area, because I was askingMatt, actually we were out there
marking out some trails orsomething yesterday two days,

(01:30:13):
three days ago, and I was likewho's a tribe that was in this
area?
And he's like I don't know, theywere dead before the white
people even got here.
And that broke my heart, Likeit wasn't like he was saying
that flippantly, it was justthis like I have no idea, and I
could feel within him that itwas like damn, because he grew

(01:30:34):
up in this area, right, and thathe didn't know.
I think that I could feel likethat was kind of affecting him.
It felt like you know, becauseit definitely hit me I was like
how do we not know?

Speaker 3 (01:30:43):
yeah, it's sad.

Speaker 1 (01:30:44):
It's sad, it's tragic it's our, it's our history as
well as inhabitants of this land, to know and I know there's a
lot of people who have issuewith like acknowledgement of,
you know, the tribal people thatwere here before and those land
acknowledgements and things.
But you know, just as a, as acommon courtesy, you know this
is, this is the history of theland.
This is just from aneducational point of view.

(01:31:06):
To know the, to see the, thewritten lichensi language that
was not, it wasn't written right, it was an oral language but to
see the beauty of that languageand the complexity of the
language in written form.

Speaker 2 (01:31:18):
Yeah, like that's cool, it's crazy, it is.

Speaker 3 (01:31:22):
Native American history is American history.
You know through and throughand and you know they have, you
know the native Americans, theyhave their own special part of
that.
But also it's also part of ourhistory as well, because, well,
we, it's also part of ourhistory as well, because, well,

(01:31:42):
we're here and you know a lot ofus don't really have a choice.

Speaker 2 (01:31:45):
Yeah, yeah and one of the things that really ties in
the disc golf for me with thenative community is honoring the
land.
Yeah, and we actually had a guycome to the school and he
talked about how when he went tolike a forest or something, he
would leave an offering of likethe tobacco sage, a couple other
things.
And so when I heard him saythat, I'm like huh, I wonder if

(01:32:09):
I'm like nicer to the trees, ifthey'll be nicer to me and I'll
have a better game.
So it's kind of that's why Ipet the dragon every time I go
past it and you know, I hug atree and it's like how do I
honor the land?
And so doing the restoration isalso taking that time to put
back the good energy and tohonor that land, that place.

Speaker 1 (01:32:31):
I can't wait to see you.
I can't wait to see what youthink about the way that the
pathways are laid out.
When Matt and I were out thereon I guess this was Sunday
morning or maybe Saturday orsomething, whatever day it was
we were walking through thereand we have done, I think, a
really cool job of utilizing thenatural topography and the

(01:32:52):
natural movement of the forest.
I was out there transplantingtoday ferns that were in the
fairway.
Yeah.
And that whole of hole two, allof hole two, I transplanted, uh,
three ferns and one littlegrouping of crocus that came up.
That was it, that was it, andthat I think, if we can continue

(01:33:15):
to do that, honoring andlistening to the land and and
thinking just what's the naturalmovement, how does this net,
this land naturally flow andhone in our eyes, for that,
being able to take that kind ofrestoration mindset to other
courses would be so cool, likeyou're, you're, so I'll just,

(01:33:37):
I'm going to say it right now,I'm just going to announce it
right now I want us to become a501c3 called Discourse
Consulting.
Discourse Consulting Prettyclever, right, disc course,
uh-huh, but it's also theconversation, thank you.

Speaker 2 (01:33:53):
Can I get a?

Speaker 1 (01:33:53):
squirrel, you want a squirrel, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:33:55):
It's an angry squirrel.
I'll tell you about thesquirrel on hole 12.
That would not leave the teepad.
There was a squirrel on hole 12.

Speaker 1 (01:34:03):
Are you serious?

Speaker 2 (01:34:04):
Uh-huh, it would not leave the tee pad.
We were at a tournament.
It would not leave, we'd shootaway and come back.

Speaker 3 (01:34:11):
Yeah, and it just looked very indignant, Like what
are you doing?

Speaker 1 (01:34:15):
on my tee pad.
Yeah, I marked this out this ismine.
Well, I think I want to justfinish this one I would love to
call discourse consulting,because I think discourse
consulting says to.
It's a play on words, but it'sa conversation between the, the
restoration effort, the coursedesign, the city, the community,
and it's discourse is an artform right.

(01:34:38):
It's the dialogue of going backand forth and being able to
listen to each other and replyto each other and have this flow
right.
Like good discourse, right Isconsideration, it's awareness,
it's respect, and so discourseconsulting would be a 501c3 that
helps other municipalities andother communities restore their

(01:35:01):
courses in ways that respect andhave conversations with the
land that they're building on.
So it would be design,maintenance and restoration.

Speaker 3 (01:35:12):
So what I was going to say is something that's
coming to my mind right now isthat education breeds
familiarity and familiaritybreeds stewardship, and that's
really kind of the evolution ofit is.
You got to get people out thereto see it, experience it, be
curious about it, educatethemselves about the land, the

(01:35:35):
plants, the history of the land,and then, once they're educated
and familiar with it, they takeownership and they take
stewardship and pride in being apart of the restoration and
development of wherever you'reat.

Speaker 1 (01:35:51):
Yeah, yeah, I love that you brought up the word
stewardship, because that's theessence of where we're at and
there's stewardship groups inour area.
There's the Friends of MadronaTrail stewardship group, there's
Forest Ridge stewardship group,and they do take that pride in

(01:36:11):
that.
I guess the word that it's thecaretaking, it's the giving back
, it's the support of thecommunity for this area, that
stewardship.
Stewardship really is its ownword.
There's nothing else like itand it doesn't really have a

(01:36:32):
synonym.
You can't.
I would love to see what thesource says about stewardship.

Speaker 3 (01:36:37):
I think when you invest your time in something,
you're more reluctant to seeyour efforts and your knowledge
and concentration go to waste,so you're more willing to keep
it up and more willing tomaintain it.
It becomes part of you.
Yeah, you internalize it.
Yeah, you really do.

Speaker 1 (01:36:55):
That's well said.
I haven't been out tofairgrounds in a long time.
I haven't been out to sheltonin a long time but I go out to
his nod on a multi-week,multi-day basis any given week
because I enjoy.
I enjoy it at a different levelout there, like I throw my, I
bring fozzie my pup.
He's got a bite aitude, 64 biteA lot of days.

(01:37:20):
That's the only disc I'll bringfor him.
It's his disc.
I almost hit the basket of hole, two from like 150 out with
that today.
It chained out.
I was like ah.
Anyway different story.
But the point is that the justbeing out there is is that the,

(01:37:45):
the just being out there and andlistening to the, the fairway,
listening to the land andwatching the stream go through
its season, it's become a friendat a different level.
You know I to the neglect of myown garden at home.
You know I, I, my wife and Ilove to garden and I'm spending
more time thinking how am Igoing to get wood chips for Nat?
You know I want to lay outthese pathways that make sense

(01:38:07):
for the people that are playingthe chorus and it just becomes a
relationship between you as thesteward and the land that
you're stewarding.

Speaker 3 (01:38:18):
Now I've been dying to ask you this for like 45
minutes now.
I'm gonna, I'm gonna take myopportunity right now.
Jenny, are you ready?
I think so.
How do you feel about tanzania?

Speaker 1 (01:38:30):
um, I, I don't know, I've never been to tanzania.
I mean, it's I I've I've heardmusic from tanzania.
I used to listen to a lot oflike tribal African music and
drumming, uh, but I don't knowwhat you're talking about.

Speaker 2 (01:38:44):
So, uh, we got a guy yeah so, um, we just uh released
the podcast today.

Speaker 3 (01:38:52):
Yeah, we just have a few hours ago a few hours ago,
before you came over, we we justreleased the episode.
This guy, his name is RyanScaife.
He is the president of the Hope.

Speaker 2 (01:39:05):
He's the founder of the Hope in Tanzania Project.

Speaker 3 (01:39:09):
Hope in Tanzania Project.

Speaker 2 (01:39:10):
From Wisconsin, starting back in like 2001.

Speaker 3 (01:39:14):
Oh, wow, and one of the initiatives that he is
trying to get off the ground andhe kind of spoke it into
reality on the podcast actuallyis the uh sister disc golf club
uh relationship.
So he was, he was talking sotanzania uh like a sister city

(01:39:36):
kind of thing.
Yeah sister city for a sisterdisc golf club.
Yeah, and he does these serviceand safaris where you go for
two weeks and you build a discgolf course and do conservation
and stuff and then you go out onsafari and get to see the
animals in Tanzania, like rightunderneath Kilimanjaro.

Speaker 1 (01:39:54):
Oh wow, oh wow, that'd be cool.
Yeah, that'd be really cool.

Speaker 3 (01:40:02):
And the only thing it costs you is some elbow grease.
And airfare to get out there.
I imagine too, he made it.
I don't know, I don't know, Ican't speak for it.
Yeah, yeah, but we were lookingat airfare and it was only like
$1,200.

Speaker 1 (01:40:12):
Wow, but it's like 22 hours.
Yeah, it's a 22-hour flight,but it was only like $1,200.

Speaker 3 (01:40:22):
And the people are wonderful, I guess, and the food
is wonderful, and you just walkup to a tree and pick off a
guava or a passion fruit orsomething and see a warthog and
a couple lions, maybe somemonkeys, I don't know.

Speaker 2 (01:40:36):
And it's also Project 4.6 with the Paul Macbeth
Foundation.

Speaker 1 (01:40:37):
Yeah, and you work with the paul mcbeth foundation
yeah, and you work with the paulmcbeth foundation too yeah,
because that's kind of where Ithought you were going was that
you had a podcast with paul,because he's doing so much great
work in the foundation at leasthe's doing so much great work
in in uh, in africa yeah, yeahand paul wright yeah, is you
know.
Former wsdga president is nowworking with paul mcbeth

(01:40:59):
foundation out there, so Ithought that's where you're
going but that's reallyinteresting.
So what's his name?

Speaker 3 (01:41:02):
again, his name, his name is ryan scaife and he he
used to be a journalist with, uhlike cbs, sports, espn, all
sorts of different places, yeah.
And he got out of the industryand found himself in tanzania at
this study abroad program, thesemester at sea, and just fell
in love with the place and he'sreally creating disc golf as an

(01:41:26):
economic driver forsustainability in Tanzania.

Speaker 1 (01:41:31):
That's cool.

Speaker 3 (01:41:31):
Yeah, and he was wanting to do some sister disc
golf clubs.
And by everything you'retalking about here the
stewardship and the restorationand the conservation and
everything you guys would bejust hand in hand with each
other.

Speaker 1 (01:41:47):
I I, I definitely want to get hold of them.
That sounds like a really cool.
That sounds like a really coolconnection.
Yeah, you know and andpotential opportunities.
I think, um, in Tanzania, likethis is the kind of thing that
the, the nad rangers, as we talkabout this stuff, we dream
about, like how cool it would beto like grow out into you know,

(01:42:07):
designing and working withcommunities and what better kind
of communities to work with andcommunities that that need I
don't want to say need.
This actually feels a littleweird.
Um, where we can, we canactually find cultural, you know
, intersections and and and,come together and like, learn
from each other.
And we can take disc golf,which is clearly a very american

(01:42:27):
sport, um, and we can bring allof our quirkiness and our
nerdiness out there and, and youknow, share this really fun
sport, which I I have all sortsof thoughts about ball golf
versus disc golf but um, andthen be able to see the land in
tanzania and meet the communityand learn from them.
Oh, they're all their worldperspectives too.
I just love that, that's justyeah.

Speaker 2 (01:42:48):
So talking with um paul wright, who I actually grew
up across the lake from him, oh, no way.
So yeah, I didn't realize ituntil, you know, a couple years
ago.
Um, but having him talk aboutgoing over there and actually
getting to watch him go throughhis process at Chief Kitsap,
watch him as he's walkingthrough the woods trying to

(01:43:09):
figure out, ok, well, where aresafety hazards, like all the
hills and stuff in Tanzania,like how do we keep people away
from that?
But then how do we?
Also, what do I want people tosee?
So watching them go throughthat whole process yeah, it's
just amazing there's.

Speaker 1 (01:43:26):
I think there is a lot of consideration that the I
would love to get into design,but I really want to study with
somebody who designs courses,because it's it's one thing to
come in and read like we'regonna mulch the fairways, you
know what I mean.
There's like one level of it it, but the course is already
there.
Yeah, it's just kind of like meand the group.
We're kind of like designinghighlights, highlighting what's

(01:43:47):
already there.
But being able to walk througha forest and know how to bend
the fairways so that thathighlights the land, highlights
the views, gives that experienceso cool.

Speaker 2 (01:44:00):
Yeah, and it's really .
You were talking aboutlistening to the forest and
reading the forest.
So the area is going to tellyou how it wants you to throw
the disc, because it's going tohave either the bigger trees or
smaller trees and kind of tellyou well, this is the way that
our land flows and you know whenin doubt, follow the way the
water would flow.

Speaker 1 (01:44:21):
Yeah, so it's yeah, yeah it's cool.

Speaker 2 (01:44:22):
It's something I'm hoping that we'll be able to do
in the future too, and my unclewas a ball golf course designer
and that's a completelydifferent, because you're, you
know, completely destroying,yeah, the the land and changing
the land, versus the disc golf,where you're trying to keep it
as much as possible even thoughball golf courses, they're

(01:44:45):
beautiful, for what they are, Imean, they're an ecological
disaster.

Speaker 3 (01:44:50):
They're a complete disaster on the environment
around them in so many chemicalsand pesticides and taking out
all the native brush andeverything to make these clear,
immaculate fairways.
I mean it's in a differentlight.

Speaker 1 (01:45:08):
It's just disgusting yeah, being so far removed from
it, yeah yeah, my dad wasactually went to portugal um in
the 90s as part of the AudubonSociety to go to work on ball
golf courses to improve birdhabitat.

Speaker 2 (01:45:26):
Wow.

Speaker 1 (01:45:27):
Yeah, yeah, it was really cool.
It was very out of hiswheelhouse.
He was a vice president of acruise line but had a lot of
connections and he has a marinebiology degree, but he ended up
somehow with the smithsonian andthe ottoman society going on
this trip.
I think he worked with them forabout a year and a half.
It was really, yeah, a reallycool thing that they were doing.

(01:45:48):
But you're right, brandon, andthey have ball golf courses, I
think in large part, as far asI'm aware, which is not very,
but, as far as I'm aware, don'thave a real ecological bent, at
least even superficially.
You know, it's not somethingthat they advertise and there is
a lot of opportunity for.

(01:46:08):
I think there's a lot ofopportunity for that with ball
golf courses as well.

Speaker 3 (01:46:13):
Yeah, yeah, I could see that.

Speaker 1 (01:46:15):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:46:16):
One of the things I love about kayak is watching how
they're letting parts of thecourse grow back and, you know,
seeing where okay, this is whereyou know this used to be the t
area.
This used to be where theywould probably put to like it's.
It's interesting to see howthey're kind of rebuilding it

(01:46:38):
and letting some of it you knowrepair are you talking about?

Speaker 1 (01:46:42):
like the the blue layout?

Speaker 2 (01:46:44):
I'm oh, I've never played the blue I played red but
like I'm, thinking of like oneof the ones where it's really oh
, because it's a ball, of course, right, yeah, and so the parts
where they're kind of letting itgrow back and watching as it's,
you know, becoming whateverit's going to become right some
of the for our listeners outthere.

Speaker 3 (01:47:00):
Uh, kayak point is the big like disc golf resort
out here in washington.
That's private resort, right?
Uh, I sort of is it sort ofyeah.

Speaker 2 (01:47:10):
So what did it play?
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (01:47:12):
some of the back story to it is, I guess it was a
municipal ball golf course thatthe city had just kind of given
up on.
And then they were approachedby this disc golf outfit.
I'm not quite exactly sure whothey are, but they said hey, you
know, let us, let us take thisover, turn this into a disc golf

(01:47:32):
place.
And they came up with a dealand we're able I don't I'm not
sure if they were able topurchase or lease the land, but
they were able to acquire itsomehow.
And so they took this ball golfcourse.
It was just a nine-hole ballgolf course and they transformed
it into well, it's got three orfour disc golf courses on it,
right?

Speaker 1 (01:47:52):
now, yeah, it's definitely got three.
It's got like the red, the blueand the gold, and then they
have a purple one too.

Speaker 3 (01:47:59):
Oh, really, yeah, they have a purple one too.
Really yeah, they have a wood,a wood course.
That was that.
I think it's purple orsomething like that I think
you're talking about the blueone, the blue is the blue, is
the wood one the blue is thewood course, yeah yeah, but they
, they have a red, they have agreen, they have a gold, uh, and
then they have the blue, andthen they have a 18 hole pitch
and putt which is like 100, 120foot approach shots, the whole

(01:48:21):
time.

Speaker 2 (01:48:21):
You know, I wish like had they not taken apart bud,
pell and the the little minigolf there.
It would have been fun to makeit into a little pitch and putt
that little mini golf area.
Yeah, yeah, that would havebeen fun yeah, um, so going.

Speaker 1 (01:48:36):
I want to go back to what you were saying about like
listening to the land and theflow and stuff like that and
what watching Paul Wright do hiswork.
There is a episode shout out toSimon Lizotte and beyond disc
golf.
I don't know how many episodesthey did.
I think maybe like four or fiveepisodes total, but there was.
One.
Of the original ones was at LakeTahoe it was like the second

(01:48:57):
episode and it blew my mind.
This guy created an entire discgolf course.
Go back and watch this video.
It's cool.
It's like a half an hour 35minutes long, something like
that and this guy created anentire disc golf course without
taking out a single tree.

Speaker 2 (01:49:09):
Nice Whoa, yeah, that's cool, yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:49:12):
And it's like legit lines.
It's not like poke and hopestuff.
It's not like hole 11 at nat,like he really considers
thoughtful, very thoughtfuldesign, and I think there's so
much room for that in in thissport as we start to mature and
evolve our designs absolutely so.

Speaker 3 (01:49:31):
We we were talking earlier.
One of the things that I wantedto dive into is that if I'm a
local club or a localorganization and I want to start
a project like this for mylocal disc golf course, what's
the process?
Where would I start?
Who are some key players anddifferent resources that I can

(01:49:51):
get involved?
Just kind of walk us throughwhere you've been with that Sure
.

Speaker 1 (01:49:57):
So I think, first of all, it really depends and this
is one of the reasons that Iwant to move the NAD Restoration
Project into something moregeneral, because I think the way
that I'm going about itrequires a little bit more
nuanced approach to eachlocality right?
So you could say, first of all,what you need is a group of

(01:50:22):
passionate people that want torestore or design a course, and
let's just start withrestoration, because that's
where we are right now, right?
So, hey, our disc golf courseis falling apart, right?
Or it just needs some love?
What we started off with wasthe stats.
How many people are utilizingthis disc golf course?

(01:50:44):
What does this disc golf groupand the community bring to the
economy?
Cities and municipalities wantto know the economic impact of
anything in their city and theyalso want to know the social
impact of that as well.
One of the difficulties that wehad with this, with NAD park,
for the longest time, is thatthe, the parking lot is what,

(01:51:08):
like a quarter mile from like,the first tee, maybe something
like that.
I mean, it's at least 500 yards.
You got to walk through thepark, then you walk, you know,
down into the forest.
Walk through the park, then youwalk, you know, down into the
forest, yeah.
And then you, you come up on t1and you can't see that from the
road.
You never know how many peopleare throwing discs in there,

(01:51:30):
unless you happen to drive byaustin drive and catch a flash
of a disc in the air yeah and Ithink that was a unfortunate, um
just situation with nad, thatthe city didn't know and had no
idea how many people wereactually in there on daily basis
.
When I put together mypresentation, the first thing I
did was here's the history ofthe park.

(01:51:51):
This park used to be a forest.
It's now got 40 000 peopleplaying in this in this park
every year and it's growing.
Um, in 2000,.
Since 2019, disc golf hasincreased by 76%.
That sounds like, oh, really,that's from what?

(01:52:14):
1975 to 2001.
1975 to 2001,.
Let's go with an easy number oflike 10, right.
We're now in a five-year periodwent to 17.5, right.
That's the growth that we'relooking at, right, and so, if

(01:52:36):
you can point that out to a city, start there.
Start with this is how muchtraffic we're getting in our
area.
Okay, that's one.
The next is what's theecological impact of this?
What's the maintenance lookinglike?
Now, a lot of municipalitiesthat don't have wooded disc golf
courses.
They have grass, and grass isreally easy to budget out, right
.
Very, very easy to budget out.

(01:52:57):
You can budget that out down tothe square centimeter if you
want to.
Wooded disc golf courses are alittle bit more difficult, but I
think in the long run, they'reactually a lot easier and more
ecological to maintain, becauseall we're looking at doing is
putting down wood chips.
Wood chips can be found forfree, so you start with the how
much is this?

(01:53:17):
How much impact is this havingon the community?
How much does this cost thecommunity to maintain?
What would it look like if wecould use some creative thinking
?
And and you're going to want toconnect with somebody who knows
ecology you're going to want toconnect with somebody who knows
the local area and resourcesavailable.
But all across the country,there are arborists who will

(01:53:39):
provide you with wood chips forfree, and you can at least put
wood chips down and mulch downin the circle right for most
municipalities a mulch circle isjust going to be fine.
You might get into some issueswith like on a pro level they're
going to want, you know,certain kind of ground play or
whatever, whatever.
But for most municipalities,just for the maintenance being

(01:53:59):
ecological and beingcost-effective man chips are
easy to get.
Once you do that, start to lookat how you can fund your course
and that was the way that wepresented.
We redesigned the course.
In the restoration design we'renot changing any fairways or
baskets or anything like that.
We're just looking at like,what can we do to bring this

(01:54:22):
course back up to speed?
So for reference, nad Park wasneglected for 20 years.
The city would not allow underthe former city director would
not allow us to do any kind ofmaintenance in the park.
That includes putting up likethey got.
The WSDGA went and asked ifthey could do some maintenance.
This is the thing that sparkedme off this one point.

(01:54:43):
One of the WSDGA board membersasked if they could put, or not
even asked.
He said we've been doing somebasic maintenance in the park
and kind of the ears perked upwith the commission and he said
yeah, we like you know, butnothing like you know bad or
anything.
We just we like you know, butnothing like you know bad or
anything.
We just, like you know.
We put like a log up on its end.
So we put our bags on it andthey were like, did you get

(01:55:04):
permission for that?
That's city property.
It was that kind of attitude,right.
So we went for 20 years and hadthis park neglected because
nobody could see it.
It used to be a forest and theapproach from the city was well,
just let it be a forest, don'thave to do anything to it, don't
have to maintain it.
If you go to Olympic NationalPark you can see a forest will

(01:55:25):
restore itself.
But it's different.
It's a park now.
It is a traffic of a park.
So knowing what you have,knowing how it needs to be
maintained and showing the citythe economic benefit and the
cost of it and how the communitycan help pay for it and help
make it work and continue tosteward that disc golf course is

(01:55:49):
a really good, I think, formulafor going about maintaining and
restoring a course.
When it comes to design, I'mgoing to leave that to Ryan
Scaife, paul Wright, people likethat who have worked with
municipalities.
Northwest Disc Golf Associationhas worked with municipalities
in designing and installingcourses.
There's other groups that aremore experienced in that and how

(01:56:12):
they would go about that, but Ithink the process would be
relatively similar.
You're showing the economicimpact and the community and
social impact of having discgolf in the area which, let's be
honest, you want to talk abouta basketball court or a
pickleball court or a baseballfield.
You're clear cutting, you'regrading, you're like putting in
grass.

(01:56:32):
That's expensive Parking lots,millions of dollars in these
facilities.

Speaker 3 (01:56:36):
Don't even get me started about pickleball.

Speaker 1 (01:56:39):
Yeah right, I know we got disc golf.
You're gonna get me in troublewith my mother-in-law.

Speaker 3 (01:56:45):
Be very careful, you guys all wanna go and play
pickleball like come on.

Speaker 1 (01:56:49):
I know, I know no, and that's it.
I think it's easy and clean.
You go in, you can play a quickgame and that's fine.
I mean whatever.
I think getting people outsideand off the screen is number one
that's always good.
That's always good, right.
Disc golf is a uniquelybeautiful sport and it's usually
in uniquely beautiful areas.
I think there is so much roomfor the growth.

(01:57:12):
The thing is you do need a lotof land.
Like for 18-hole course, youtypically need about 20 acres.
That's a chunk of space andthat's why nine-hole courses are
growing at twice the rate of18-hole courses across the
country and we're seeing.
I brought some stats with metoday.
There were in the United States.

(01:57:33):
There were 516 new coursesadded in municipal parks alone.
Wow, that's 10 per state, wow.
Over 10 per state that's withina year timeframe, that's in 2024
.
Data Wow yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:57:50):
That's rapid growth.

Speaker 1 (01:57:51):
Yeah, Now let's say that there's twice as many
nine-hole courses than 18-holecourses.
That's still like 150 orsomething, you know, 18-hole
courses and like 350 nine-holecourses.

Speaker 3 (01:58:06):
Well, I mean, just put in an extra tee pad and you
got an 18-hole course, and yougot 18 holes.

Speaker 1 (01:58:10):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's it, and that was just
municipal parks.
I mean, there was courses onformer ball golf courses, 51 new
courses added.
That's one per state.
There's now, by the way, 514 ofthose across the country, and
even worldwide.
I mean it's growing LikeTanzania.
We're talking about Tanzaniaright now.

Speaker 2 (01:58:31):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:58:32):
With disc golf Tanzania.
We're talking about Tanzaniaright now.
Yeah, with disc golf, like andmy wife and I were talking about
about this the other day howundiverse disc golf is.
It's a very white sport, right,and bringing this to Tanzania
and getting a whole new talentpool from around the world is
super cool, like I think that'sjust that.

(01:58:52):
Just that just just explodesthe potential of the sport.
When you get it into not justdifferent hands, but you get it
into a different culture.
You're going to see peoplethrowing discs in ways that
we've never seen before, becauseit's coming out of somewhere
like Tanzania.

Speaker 3 (01:59:07):
Well, and what you have with disc golf is you
generally have a working classpopulation, so very inclusive,
they just want to get off ofwork and blow off steam and then
you get the cost of entry isnot prohibitive.
No, I mean you can go and get adisc for $10.

Speaker 1 (01:59:26):
You can get a whole starter pack for $30 off Amazon
or at your local disc golfcourse.

Speaker 2 (01:59:31):
You can find them at Goodwill too.
Yeah, you can find them atGoodwill.
Or you just go up to a courseand someone will probably give
you a disc yeah, or just walkthe course in the on the sides
and find one yeah, exactly.

Speaker 3 (01:59:42):
So I mean you can get into it for next to nothing and
most of the courses are free,right, and so like it's, it's
really a no-brainer if the landis there.

Speaker 1 (01:59:52):
It's a no-brainer for um, for municipalities.
It really, it really is, and andthe thing that's very
unintrusive on the land, becauseyou got a basket, you got a pad
to a degree as long as, as longas there's a way finding and a
way to get there where you'renot just like I mean it's not
intrusive.
But that was the heartbreakingthing of nat.
I actually was playing around.

(02:00:13):
I came up on 18.
I met a guy who is an arboristand I this was at the beginning
of the nat restoration project,so this was like last spring or
something and the guy was sayingwe were looking down there, I
was telling what we were doing,he goes.
You know, I've been watchingthis course for the last couple
of years with everybody now kindof playing disc golf and I can
see it kind of getting erodedand and degrading a bit and I

(02:00:36):
was like I know me too and itwhen you have an eye for you can
see it.
Most people playing no shade atall, um, aren't trained with
that eye it's like I was likewalking into a space with an
architect and being like no,it's fine to me.
And they're like oh my god, letme tell you all about it it's
not great yeah, right, you knowyou give me the death glare over
there.

Speaker 3 (02:00:55):
I know what.
Yeah, yeah, we, we go anywhereand I'm looking at how the
building's built.
What's your role?
What's your profession?

Speaker 1 (02:01:02):
I'm a general contractor yeah, yeah, there you
go yeah I can't walk by, Ican't walk by an open door
without looking at it, becauseI'm a nurse.

Speaker 4 (02:01:09):
Like it's just like oh, there's a patient in there.
You know what I mean.

Speaker 3 (02:01:11):
Like but yeah.

Speaker 1 (02:01:14):
I mean I think there's, if you're a
municipality municipality outthere or a community out there,
a group out there, a nonprofitout there that is involved with
disc golf or wants disc golf inyour community, feel free to
reach out to me.
We're the NAD volunteerstewardship group um.
Nad Volunteer Stewardship Group.
Nad Park Volunteer StewardshipGroup on Facebook.

(02:01:34):
It's a long name.
My name is Christopher Keen onFacebook.
You can find me there,christopher, with a K.
You can also email me atprojectleadnaddgc at Gmail and
we'll put those in the show.
Can we put those in the shownotes?

Speaker 2 (02:01:52):
Yes, we can Okay.

Speaker 1 (02:01:54):
Because I was not great at brevity when I was
coming up with these names, butI I would be happy to chat with
you about it.
We have some.
We have some great talent onour team for the nad project and
we're happy to work with anymunicipality that that has some
ideas, because we really want togrow the sport, but grow it in
a sustainable way.
Um, that is that is easy on theland but great for your

(02:02:17):
community.

Speaker 3 (02:02:18):
Well, in taking this to the next level is you know,
you have that creative discoursething that you want to do and
this is your proof of concept.

Speaker 1 (02:02:27):
Yes so this is.

Speaker 3 (02:02:28):
This is kind of your beta test and see how it all
works out, and work out some ofthe bugs and things.
Until you, until you take it upto the uh, oh, I mix this up
all the time 5031 c, 501 c3, 501c3, that's the one yep yeah
yeah, letters and numbers.
It's the, it's a thing andyou're a gc I can read a tape

(02:02:50):
measure.
All right, Do you have anythingelse you want?
Oh, I have to ask this.
Well, first of all, do you haveanything else you want to talk
about?
You know?

Speaker 1 (02:03:03):
I do actually Go ahead.
I mentioned briefly earlier, wehave a tournament coming up
this April April 19th for EarthDay.
We're partnering with TrashPanda.

Speaker 3 (02:03:13):
Earth Day, that's amazing.

Speaker 1 (02:03:14):
It's Earth Day weekend.
So Earth Day is on the 22nd,which is, I think, a Tuesday or
Wednesday this year.
So we're doing it on Saturdayso everybody can make it, and
we're doing this as a TrashPanda challenge.
So Trash Panda if you're notfamiliar with Trash Panda really
fun disc Great company doingsustainability work for disc
golf.
They're making their disccompletely out of recycled

(02:03:35):
plastic.
It's not like a manufacturerwho makes new plastic and
they've got a couple of recycleddiscs or they're recycling
their, their uh seconds orwhatever.
Like um, like mvp does trashpanda focus is specifically on
finding plastic that they canrecycle and make into discs and
they've got right now four discson no five discs in their

(02:03:56):
lineup.
They have a putter called theIntercore.
They've got a mid-range calledthe Dune.

Speaker 2 (02:04:01):
They've got Is it taking pictures of you?

Speaker 1 (02:04:05):
No, it's the gesture.
The hand gesture is on.
So I'm filming this for ourYouTube channel and I put the
two sign up and hand gesturesturned off the recording.
Okay.
So they've got the intercorder.
They've got the dune.
Yeah, they've got the ozone.
The ozone is this likefantastic super flippy fairway,

(02:04:26):
but really great and very if youcan get it on a good hyzer and
have a good hyzer flip fantasticdisc that's going to be in the
player pack this year.
And then they have the et2,which is an off-center uh uh
bevel.
So you have like a, a, a wingchange, so it goes from like a

(02:04:48):
seven speed to an 11 speedall-in-one disc.
And then they uh-huh yeah, yeah, the et2 has an off-center
bevel.
So so, if you look at it fromthe top, it looks like a normal
Frisbee.
It's just or normal disc excuseme, sorry, frisbee and so it's
circular, right.
But if you look under it, it'scircular Right.
It's not like octagonal oroblong or anything like that.
But then if you flip it over,what would normally be the under

(02:05:11):
part of it where you create thewing and the bevel, that's off
center.
So you have a thinner wing onone side and a wider wing on
another, and it is a wild disc.
It is so much fun to throw.
It's not going to be in ourplayer pack, but it will be in
our raffle.
What does it do?
So it can be really beefy.
It can also be like reallystraight.
I've seen people throw themlike tomahawks and they they'll

(02:05:44):
corkscrew and um.
It's based off like the, theaero b, uh, or the um the aero b
disc that came out, uh, in theearly 90s I'm trying, I'm
spacing on the name of it at themoment uh, but they worked with
gateway, the part where itpartnered with gateway discs,
and they, they created the et2,huh, yeah.
So that's a really fun disc.
And then they have the canyon,which Huh yeah, so that's a
really fun disc.
And then they have the Canyon,which is their new beefy
mid-range.

Speaker 3 (02:05:58):
Well, and I just want to add an anecdotal thing to
that is, trash Panda is alsoinvolved with cleaning up
plastic efforts in Africa aswell.
Oh cool, we just learned.
Yeah, so they're a bigproponent of that, and the Paul
Macbeth Foundation and thingsover there big proponent of that
and the Paul Macbeth foundationand things over there.

Speaker 1 (02:06:16):
Yeah, well, there, they do some really good work
and I'm I'm hoping that we canreturn to a partnership with
Transpanda Disc moving forward,whether that's just promoting
them and they're, you know,working with us to create more
opportunities for restoring discgolf courses across the country
.
We are going to have an awesomeraffle for this, for this, this
tournament as well, we're goingto have I want to for this, for
this, uh, this tournament aswell, we're going to have.
Uh, I want to make sure I'msaying this right, we have a

(02:06:39):
cart that's going to be in theraffle and I'm not going to say
what kind of car yet.
I'm going to let ian williamson, our td, announce that.
But we've got discs, we've gotbags.
We've got roller it has to be,it's I, it's, it's a name that
you'd be like oh hell, yeah, I'mgonna jump into that, that,
that raffle.

Speaker 2 (02:06:56):
So I'm gonna put an offer out there for you.
So, since we are sponsored bytreasures of the forest, we have
a couple of tubes coming to usand we can get some custom minis
made with materials.
So if you have like somematerials from nad and you want
to do like some picture video ofwhere it's at and send that to

(02:07:18):
us, we can get some minis madefor you and I could bring you
some forest floor treasures forsure, yeah, we could get you
some minis for your projectsokay, how long?

Speaker 1 (02:07:28):
how long was the turnaround on that?

Speaker 2 (02:07:30):
uh, I don't know.

Speaker 1 (02:07:31):
I'd have to find out you may not have it for the
tournament, that's fine butdefinitely for like fundraising
there's some super cool lichenand stuff like that and like
flowers and all sorts of coolstuff.
That yeah awesome.
Okay, I love it, I love it.

Speaker 3 (02:07:45):
That's great yeah okay, so go out to the trash
panda versus the owl at uh yeahnad park.

Speaker 1 (02:07:51):
Yeah, yeah, it's trash panda versus owl.
Um, it's one round to take themall.
Uh, this is a one roundchallenge and it's something
that we're planning on doingevery year, with trash panda as
our uh, as our sponsor, as asponsor.
Yeah, yeah, so that's going tobe super cool.
Um, other things that we havecoming up we're going to be, um,
putting up all of our workparties for this upcoming year.

(02:08:13):
I want to call it the tour ofNAD, like a, you know, like a
rock band or something like that.
Right, but like, I want to layit out so that if you're in the
area, or if you're in WesternWashington and you want to get
your hands dirty on what isgoing to be an absolutely
historical and and really killerproject, um, you can come up
and you can plan a trip toBremerton, or you can plan a
weekend to be working in NAD,and so keep your eyes out for

(02:08:37):
that.
So that's what we have comingup and I appreciate you asking
me.
Brandon, thank you Absolutely.

Speaker 2 (02:08:42):
We need to get MXPX to change their song, the Move
to Bremerton song.

Speaker 3 (02:08:49):
It's like come work at.

Speaker 1 (02:08:50):
Bremerton at NAD Park .
Move to NAD Park.
Okay, fun tidbit on mxpx.
So when we moved to the thearea, my wife used to like punk
when she was in in high schooland so did I.
Um, mxpx was kind of in that,that mix of like punk and skater
kind of scene.
And so, uh, when we moved intoour house we were chatting with
our neighbor and he goes yeah,you know the band mxpx.

(02:09:11):
We were like, yeah, yeah, he'slike.
This used to be the rehearsalhouse right next door to us.

Speaker 2 (02:09:16):
Oh, that's cool.

Speaker 1 (02:09:17):
Yeah, it's their old rehearsal house up there in
Manhattan.

Speaker 3 (02:09:19):
Well, the lead guy used to work at the shipyard.

Speaker 2 (02:09:23):
Mike.

Speaker 3 (02:09:24):
Yeah, mike, before they reformed MXPX and went on
tour.
Oh cool, yeah, they got backtogether, but he was working at
the shipyard for a long time andI guess he owns a big house
down in Chico right off thewater.

Speaker 1 (02:09:36):
Oh, okay.

Speaker 3 (02:09:37):
So he's still local.
I mean, they're still aroundhere, okay.

Speaker 1 (02:09:40):
Oh yeah, another shout out speaking of cool
people in the area.
I would love to work with localbusinesses on the park.
I would love to work with prosnational touring pros to bring
attention to the park.
So if you're a national touringpro listening to this podcast
and you want to get involvedwith ecological restoration,

(02:10:01):
madison, are you listening?
Madison.
Walker, are you listening who?

Speaker 3 (02:10:06):
Madison Walker, madison Walker, I know Madison
Walker Honk.

Speaker 1 (02:10:10):
Honk Yep.
And Erica absolutely Yep.
Erica St absolutely Yep.
Erica Stinchcomb If you do likeI'm talking to you guys, I'm
talking to any pro disc golferthat has a bent towards ecology
and restoration and would liketo come play NAD, do a video
with us for our YouTube channel.
We're a fledgling YouTubechannel.
It's fun, it's quirky.

(02:10:31):
We'd love to have you out andin the future, when we kick this
off, we kick this park off, wewant to be doing a pro pro-am
tournament, maybe two rounds.
Oh, that would be cool,Wouldn't that be fun?
Man, that would be fun, Like,really show off the course you

(02:10:53):
get to raffle yourself intoplaying with a touring pro and
have a great time out in thatpark.

Speaker 3 (02:10:55):
We could do pro-am dubs and I could contribute
absolutely nothing.

Speaker 1 (02:10:58):
Right, basically.
That's where.
I'd be too.

Speaker 2 (02:11:02):
So there will be two hot geese at the Cascade
Challenge.
So maybe, maybe, maybe.

Speaker 1 (02:11:09):
I think I'm going to have to slip down to the Cascade
Challenge just here and say hi,oh yeah.

Speaker 3 (02:11:13):
Yeah, we'll be there, for sure, yeah.

Speaker 2 (02:11:15):
I already took the days off work.

Speaker 3 (02:11:16):
Yes.

Speaker 2 (02:11:17):
Me too, oh my gosh, oh my gosh.

Speaker 3 (02:11:19):
So, all right, something I ask of everyone.
Yeah, what do you got in thebag?

Speaker 1 (02:11:25):
I am all gyro right now Gyro gyro let's go all right
.
So for my putters I got twopixels.
They're special edition.
Uh, electron pixels.
Right now, love the pixel.
The pixel hands down made myimproved my putting game like
hands, yeah, hands down what isit about the pixel that people

(02:11:46):
love so much?

Speaker 3 (02:11:46):
because I I can't.

Speaker 1 (02:11:47):
We have a few you can take with you, okay, no, no,
they're in the practice bin um,the reason that I love the pixel
is for I'm kind of a push witha slight spin at the end.
If I put a little bit more spinon it, it is a, a shoot and go
like putter.
I've been able to hit puttsfrom 85 feet that I've never
been able to hit with any otherputters.
And I threw anodes for a year.

(02:12:08):
I threw judges for about sixmonths.
I threw avrs for about a year.
Um, and I can depend on thePixel.
The Pixel is my putter.
It has improved my game so much.
So I've got my Pixel, then I'vegot my Spin.
Ohm, I've got then the ProxyEnvy, sometimes Glow Envy.

(02:12:29):
In particular, I throw a Wattin there as well, and sometimes
that replaces my proxy.

Speaker 3 (02:12:35):
A ton of low-speed stuff then, huh.

Speaker 1 (02:12:38):
Well, I'm playing the Par 3s around here a lot, oh,
yeah, yeah.
But I also use them.
I'm a heavy disc-carryingperson, so I have 27 discs that
I carry for the Par 3s aroundhere.
Go on, yeah, all right, whichallows me my reasoning that I
need to have 450 in the basementto replace all the discs right

(02:12:58):
Times 400, that yeah, to makesure, yeah.
That's only 16 potential bags.
It's disc golf math, yeah,exactly.
And then I love the tempo.
The tempo is just absolutelyfantastic approach disc From my
tempo.
Then I go up to oh, I have anentropy in there, which that's a

(02:13:20):
get out of jail disc for me.
I have two different hexes.
I have a neutron hex and I havea fission hex.
I have an echo and I have adetour.
The uplink was the detourreplaced the uplink?

Speaker 3 (02:13:37):
Okay, okay, yeah, I can see that.

Speaker 1 (02:13:39):
And then I have my, my Kali pyro, so the Hindu
goddess Kali.
I died onto my pyro and that ismy.
My go-to forehand disc has areally nice predictable fade on
it.
We like are one in the woods.
I have then a.
It goes to my crave and myrhythm from there.

(02:14:02):
So if you can see what I'mdoing with my bag, I have
different flight patterns.

Speaker 3 (02:14:07):
You're up to like 17.
Yeah, so you have 10 more to go.

Speaker 1 (02:14:10):
Right, I know you wait, it happens.
So you got 10 more to go.
Right, I know you wait, ithappens.
Um, but I have, I have myvarying speeds, um, in here and
I have within that the differentflight patterns of each speed,
because I like to try to keep myarm the same.
So my, my, my throw is the sameeach time stock shot and allow,

(02:14:31):
yep, stock shot and allow thedisc to to do the work, and then
, if I make an adjustment, it'sa very slight adjustment.
So, um, that's that's been kindof my approach.
From there.
It's my rhythm, my crave, um,then my tesla wrath, uh,
fireball, I love the motion.
The motion is what I'm startingto kind of get into a lot, uh,

(02:14:52):
the inertia.
And then if I and that's prettymuch uh it for the local wooded
courses, because they're allpar threes, when I get out to
like shelton or I'm going to thelonger courses, then the waves
come out and uh, um, yeah,pretty much, my, my wave is has
been really a go-to and I'mtrying to think of what else I

(02:15:12):
might throw in there.
Um, I've been, oh, thetime-lapse.
Oh, my gosh, the time-lapse, Ilove the time-lapse.
Everything, I've got everything, simon, right now, like I've,
I've have you played the trail?
I love the trail.
The trail is a yeah.

Speaker 3 (02:15:29):
I just don't.
Yeah, you really have to getout to open course, to open up
and rip.

Speaker 1 (02:15:34):
Yeah, but man, it flips up and just flies straight
.
It's actually replaced.
So I haven't been able to throwa full round for about six
months because of my arm.
But when I was out at Sheltonand able to really open up a bit
, the trail was starting toreplace my wave because the
waves were getting flippy.
I was having to do hyzer, hyzer, flips with the waves.

(02:15:54):
But yeah, I'm all gyro.
I love gyro for a couple ofreasons.
One is their discs take areally long time to beat in.
Um, once you start throwingthem, you start to understand
gyro and throw you it's.
It changes the way you throw.
But MVP is a really I reallylike MVP as a company, like
their ethos in disc golf to meis great.

(02:16:17):
They're not trying to sign thetop players, they're trying to
sign the people that have a goodheart and that's documented.
That's what they're alwayssaying, is that we're trying to
hire the good people in discgolf.
I mean Eagle Simon, jamesConrad Are you kidding me?
James conrad's basically a monk.
And then you know, and then,and then they just signed jerry

(02:16:41):
coaling and for me that thatjust sealed the deal.
Like they're signing the, the,the people that you're like.
Yeah, man, you make me feelgood about disc golf well big
germ big germ.

Speaker 3 (02:16:51):
He is tearing it up now that he's on mvp yeah,
because he's throwing gyro.

Speaker 1 (02:16:57):
What happened?
He's throwing gyro.

Speaker 3 (02:16:59):
Man, I'm telling you, you want to throw you want to
prove your game, throw gyro ohmy god mvp, streamline and axiom
oh, they make, they make greatdiscs, they really do I've
really I've started throwing theinsanity.
I really like the insanity.
Uh, the insanity is a fun discyeah yeah, I get a very
consistent flip with it, with alittle bit of Annie.
It travels one side of thefairway to the other fairway and
has a good, reliable finish onit.

(02:17:19):
It's one of my go-to distancedrivers.

Speaker 1 (02:17:22):
I think the Wrath and the Inertia in that nine-speed
category are sleepers.

Speaker 3 (02:17:27):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (02:17:27):
Yeah, the Inertia man , it's a super like it's a hyzer
flip for me for sure.
But it's a super like it's ahyzer flip for me for sure.
But I can use it to bend acorner with a turn, and the
wrath is between a Tesla and aFireball.
So the Tesla on a forehand, youcan get a little bit too much
turn on it and it can kind of,you know, get over to the left

(02:17:47):
on a right-hand forehand, butthe wrath it'll just go dead
straight and then, right at theend, has this nice, predictable
and reliable fade Nice Now.

Speaker 3 (02:17:57):
The one downside, if any, that I've seen with the
gyros, though, is, if you hit atree, pretty good they're gone
Because the rim is so hard theyjust take off on you and go whew
.

Speaker 1 (02:18:11):
Yeah, I mean, like I said, it makes you a better disc
golfer.

Speaker 3 (02:18:15):
Yeah, it just don't hit trees.

Speaker 1 (02:18:17):
that's the answer, yeah oh, and then shout out to
to um, to latitude 64 in europe.
You have to order them fromeurope now.
But the the glow bite isfozzie's.
Uh, that's his bag that's his,that's his entire bag.
He only he's a one disc golfer.
He's opposite of his papa, butyeah, he, um, he loves his bite.
And the thing I love about thebite the Glow Bite in particular

(02:18:38):
is I was going through thestandard premium bites every
three months.
They would just get flippy andI would lose them or whatever.
And the Glow Bite has startedfinally, after about a year and
a half, getting flippy, but itheld its flight for a good long
time that's awesome, all right.

Speaker 3 (02:18:58):
So what is your absolute favorite disc ever so?
For example, I have my ninjaturtles disc that I call turtle
power, and everybody knows theninja turtles disc I see, so
it's a dyed ninja turtles discor something, or yeah, yeah yeah
, jenny dyed it for me.

Speaker 1 (02:19:13):
Oh cool.
Yeah, I've seen your work.
By the way, Good stuff, Customdyed, yeah, yeah yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3 (02:19:18):
but like, no matter how many discs I throw or
whatever, I mean, they're useful, sure, but that one's always
going to be my favorite.

Speaker 1 (02:19:29):
Okay.
So if we're talking individualdiscs, a stock mold, it's the
pixel.
The pixel, yep, yeah, and andthe thing that I the reason I
I'm picking my putter is becauseI can get to the basket 100
different ways.
Right, you could choose yourforehand, your back and your
what when you're in the circle,when you're in circle two, and I
can rely on my putt.

(02:19:50):
That that is the foundation ofmy bag, right and and the pixel.
Um, time and again, I surprisedmyself, like if, if I, if I
knew better, or if I didn't knowbetter, I guess I would think I
was a great disc golfer well,but it's just like it just finds
its way to the basket.

(02:20:10):
I mean, I've hit like aroundtree limbs, like so.
I was on 18 of nad park.
I was in the fairway, I waslike 85 feet out and I had to go
over a cedar bow and then hadto have a hard fade.
Now this is a straight shooterdisc, right, yeah, on a putt,
and I just threw it up and that,and this is a putter, it's not
an approach disc 85 feet out.

(02:20:31):
A lot of people will say oh,that's a putter.
But when you're going around acedar bow and you've got to have
a hard fade into basket, you'reusually using an approach disc.
At least I am, and I found that.
I found um, about 80 feet outon hole seven.
I've like consistently I'mhitting rim or hitting chains
from like circle two.

Speaker 3 (02:20:49):
I love that disc well , when you consider, uh,
statistically, that upwards of60% of the game is played from
within the circle.
Yeah.
I mean, you think about it, youknow a one putt, two putt,
maybe a three putt if you're notso lucky, but that's over half.
The game is played within, Iwould say, 100 feet of the
basket.

(02:21:09):
Yep.

Speaker 1 (02:21:10):
Yeah, absolutely, and that's the thing, right, your
t-shot will get you there, butif you, if you have a good game
and a good putter, that's goingto help you out.
And you know, circle two and inwell that's the biggest
opportunity for strokes gained.

Speaker 3 (02:21:22):
Yeah, is right there, because that's the majority of
the game yeah, yeah, how aboutyou guys?

Speaker 1 (02:21:28):
what's your favorite?

Speaker 3 (02:21:29):
mold, my favorite mold, oh boy.
Um well, I'd have to say forputters it'd have to be the envy
.
I'm okay, I'm an envy guy.
I like electron envy or, uh,premium.
I think it's a fission soft youhave a fission I have a fission
.
It's a fission soft.
I know it's a fission soft it'snot soft, okay, well, maybe my

(02:21:51):
other one is but anyway, um Ihave about 10 different movies,
but yes, um, he does the thing Ilike about it is because I'm
very much a line drive, kind ofputter, yeah, and I like how
crashy it is because it'll it'llsink into the ground and stop
instead of go 25 feet or evenout of the circle, right, yeah,

(02:22:15):
and that's the same way withthrowing it for approaches is I
can really get precise distancecontrol off of it and that's
what I like about the Envy.
My favorite approach disc is byfar the Cascade Challenge UV
Glow Zones.

Speaker 2 (02:22:34):
He just lost one, so he bought two.

Speaker 3 (02:22:37):
Well, yeah, you know how that goes.

Speaker 2 (02:22:38):
I do Put your name on them.

Speaker 1 (02:22:42):
I just got a grave back that I lost a year ago.

Speaker 2 (02:22:44):
So did she, I just got a hex back that I lost a
year ago, oh nice.

Speaker 3 (02:22:49):
It's at a totally different course than what I
lost it at, but the zone for meis a Swiss Army knife.
I can use it for anything.
I can sidearm it, I can flex,shot it, I can, you know, I can
throw backhand approaches withit.
It's just really good foreverything.
I can even putt with it and itworks great.

Speaker 1 (02:23:07):
You're gonna have to watch a big germ and uh, uli got
together and did a zone versustempo, hex versus buzz round.
Oh, really yeah yeah, uli justput it out on his YouTube.

Speaker 3 (02:23:19):
I'll have to check it out.
Yeah, yeah, I'll have to checkit out.

Speaker 1 (02:23:22):
How about you, Jenny?
What's your favorite mold?

Speaker 2 (02:23:24):
My go-to right now is my F9 from Prodigy.

Speaker 3 (02:23:30):
She says that so bashfully.
Well, I just threw two in ariver so I'm kind of you know,
yeah, how many did she?

Speaker 2 (02:23:39):
buy, I'm not getting in the middle, but then, uh, he
got me the pa5, which is aunderstable putter, basically,
and it's just amazing absolutelyit's kind of.

Speaker 3 (02:23:54):
It's kind of reminiscent of almost an
understable berg.

Speaker 2 (02:24:00):
Oh, no, it's not that it's it's bergy.

Speaker 3 (02:24:03):
It's a little bit bergy, but not much, but it's.

Speaker 2 (02:24:06):
It's a soft plastic and it does these amazing
turnover lines to the pointwhere we were playing at
evergreen and people were likewhat are you throwing?
Really yeah it was one of thosediscs, it's like yeah, you're.
What is that?

Speaker 1 (02:24:23):
well, since I'm throwing a all gyro.
By the way, mvp, if you'relistening, and I'm happy to be
on your, your street team orwhatever, because I'm already
I'm already pushing your discsanyway.

Speaker 4 (02:24:32):
Yeah, don't you have any other favorite molds,
because I'm already pushing yourdiscs anyway.

Speaker 3 (02:24:37):
Don't you have any other favorite molds?
You pretty much only throwthose two.

Speaker 2 (02:24:42):
Well, I'm thinking of the four that I took with me.
There's those two, and then myEnvy.

Speaker 3 (02:24:47):
You've been throwing the mana really well.

Speaker 2 (02:24:49):
Yeah, I don't throw it that often.
I throw my soul.

Speaker 3 (02:24:54):
I throw all understable stuff, but you throw
it well, the mana from ThoughtSpace.

Speaker 2 (02:24:57):
I just never like I don't have a chance to throw it,
because it's like driver putter, driver putter.

Speaker 3 (02:25:05):
Well, when you get good like you.
I mean she doesn't make verymany mistakes.
She throws up to the basket andthen she putts.
She throws up to the basket andthen she putts.
She throws up to the basket.
She very rarely approaches.
It's ridiculous to watch herplay.

Speaker 1 (02:25:19):
That's an awesome game.
It is it gets boring.

Speaker 2 (02:25:23):
So then I have to change it up and like go a
couple months of not playing, sowell, she'll be out there and
be like let's try somethingreally stupid.

Speaker 3 (02:25:31):
now All tomahawks in the woods yes oh man all right,
all right, so, um, you gotanything else you want to cover,
or are we getting ready to wrap?

Speaker 1 (02:25:47):
I think we're, I think it's a wrap.
This has been a.
This has been a really fun timeall right.

Speaker 3 (02:25:51):
Well, hey, we appreciate you having you here,
so we'll go after six months.
We've been trying this for sixmonths.

Speaker 1 (02:25:57):
I know we've been really excited back and forth.

Speaker 3 (02:25:59):
Yeah, we'll have to do it again sometime, yeah, so,
and maybe we'll have EricaStinch come with us yeah, yeah,
I'd love that Madison Walker tooyeah.

Speaker 2 (02:26:08):
Simon Lazat will be at Cascade Challenge right now.

Speaker 3 (02:26:11):
Well, I'm gonna need to get some more microphones
build me a shed studio.

Speaker 2 (02:26:14):
Yes, we'll be a cascade challenge.
Right now, I'm going to need toget some more microphones.
Build me a shed.

Speaker 3 (02:26:17):
Studio.
Yes.

Speaker 2 (02:26:19):
Yes.

Speaker 3 (02:26:20):
And that does it for this episode of the intentional
disc golfer podcast.
We're here talking about theNAD park restoration project and
trying to help other clubs andcommunity members be able to
start a project like this.
And maybe you're a city orlocale.
If you appreciate us, like us,can't live without us.
Please like, subscribe, share,follow, tell all of your friends

(02:26:41):
.
You can find us on Facebook andInstagram at Soprinski Disc
Golf or just search theIntentional Disc Golfer Podcast.
Also, we have an ex TikTok anda YouTube at the IDG Podcast.
That is at the IDG podcast.
That is at the IDG podcast.
You can also visit our websiteand send us some fan mail.
You can click the upperleft-hand corner where it says

(02:27:02):
send us a text and we will getthat fan mail.
Or you can email us directly atthe intentional disc golfer at
gmailcom.
That is the intentional discgolfer at gmailcom.
And if you would like to supportthe cause, please visit our
Patreon.
Get some access to exclusivebehind-the-scenes content.
It's very in the beginningstages right now, but it's

(02:27:22):
growing constantly.
That is patreoncom backslashtheintentionaldiscgolfer.
Patreoncom backslashtheintentionaldiscgolfer.
And please stay tuned after theepisode.
If we have any bloopers orouttakes, we will pin them to
the end of this episode, so dostick around for that and get a
good laugh.
We would like to again thankour sponsors.

(02:27:42):
Big shout out to treasures ofthe forest.
They do the epoxy special minisand so get your uh epoxy
special monies at treasures dashof dash the dash forestcom.
And we'd like to givea shoutout to our other sponsor jenny a

(02:28:02):
salty unicorns disc golfapparel salty unicorns.
That is correct.
Salty unicorns is, uh, a proudsponsor of jenny.

Speaker 2 (02:28:12):
Yay, I like sponsors of me.

Speaker 3 (02:28:18):
And we'd like to thank our fans for sticking with
us and being with us all thistime.
We really do love you.
You guys make it so we can dowhat we do and really keep this
show going.
So for the Intentional DiscGolfer Podcast, I am one of your
hosts.
My name is Brandon and I'mJenny.
And we're also here with ourspecial guest, Chris Pendleton,

(02:28:42):
and here at the intentional discgolfer podcast.
We truly believe that disc golfchanges lives, so go out there
and grow the sport.
Thank you for listening to thisepisode of the Intentional Disc

(02:29:05):
Golfer Podcast.
These are the bloopers andouttakes from this latest
episode.
We do have to warn you thatprofanity may be used and
sensitive topics may bediscussed.
Listener discretion is highlyadvised To avoid this.
Please stop listening and moveon to the next episode now.

Speaker 2 (02:29:23):
Are we doing calendar ?

Speaker 3 (02:29:25):
Yes, you want to get that ready.
Get the calendar out.
We're always doing calendar.

Speaker 1 (02:29:28):
Are you going to admit while we talk?
Yeah, I love it.
That's awesome.
The intro is always the same.
All right, I expect talk.
Yeah, I love it.
The intro is always the same.

Speaker 2 (02:29:39):
So all right, I expect to fully complete a
project by the time we're done.

Speaker 3 (02:29:41):
I have one that's done, so I can just slide it
over and be like oh nice, yeah,I love it.
She's turning into the legwarmer girl and this will all go
on the blooper reel.
So have you listened to thepodcast at all?
I have, yeah, cool, I have.
I haven't listened to thepodcast at all I have.

Speaker 1 (02:29:52):
Yeah, cool, I have.
I haven't listened to theOakley or Stokely one yet, but I
am so happy that you got Oakleyand Stokely.

Speaker 3 (02:29:59):
We just did, sarah Hogan.

Speaker 1 (02:30:00):
And you did, hogan.
Oh, you're really going for theOaks, aren't you?

Speaker 3 (02:30:03):
Yeah, those are the only people that yeah, I guess.

Speaker 2 (02:30:09):
I didn't think of that, it of Brandon or the.

Speaker 3 (02:30:11):
Oaks.
There's only like four of themin the entire PDGA Tour.

Speaker 2 (02:30:15):
Now you're done.

Speaker 3 (02:30:16):
I know Well, chris Dickerson said he would.
Oh, he's not an Oak, I know,but he said he would interview
in November, once the season'sover, so touch base with him
when that time comes around.
Alright, well, let's get hergoing.
Oh f***.

Speaker 1 (02:30:33):
I feel like you need to have like a After these
messages, we'll be right back.
We just recorded that.
That's right.

Speaker 3 (02:30:42):
That's getting soundbited.

Speaker 1 (02:30:45):
Wasn't that from like the cartoons from the 80s.

Speaker 2 (02:30:47):
Yeah, it is Like the Saturday morning cartoons.
Saturday morning cartoonsSaturday morning.

Speaker 3 (02:30:51):
Cartoons and tutorials.

Speaker 2 (02:30:53):
Yes, oh, we found them all on all the Nickelodeon
ones on Prime Video, so we'vebeen watching them with the kids
, like Guts and Double, Dare andNick Arcade.

Speaker 3 (02:31:04):
Every kid wanted a piece of the aggro crack and I
actually went on to Etsy orsomething and they sell them for
like 200 bucks.
Wow, I need to go through mymom's garage and see what I can
find.

Speaker 1 (02:31:12):
Yeah, were you on Guts at some point Etsy or
something, and they sell themfor like 200 bucks.
Wow, I need to go through mymom's garage and see what I can
find.

Speaker 3 (02:31:17):
Were you on guts at some point.

Speaker 1 (02:31:20):
No, but I'm sure there's something in my mom's
garage from when I was a kid.

Speaker 2 (02:31:23):
You know it's worth 200 dollars.
Falls in that category, yeah.

Speaker 1 (02:31:28):
Hi, sweetie, I got a dog in my lap right now.

Speaker 3 (02:31:33):
You made a friend I did.
I know he's just a sweetheart,I think, oh man.

Speaker 1 (02:31:40):
So what I've said to the, sorry, I'll pet you what
I've said to the, yeah, we don'tpay attention to him ever, Ever
.

Speaker 2 (02:31:48):
Yeah, I can tell Poor neglected animal.

Speaker 1 (02:31:50):
He knows exactly where the hand is.
Just.
He knows exactly where the handis.
Just put your hand on my head,monkey Pet me Um the uh.

Speaker 3 (02:31:59):
And then you Um.

Speaker 2 (02:32:04):
The train has left.

Speaker 3 (02:32:05):
The train has you need a choo choo train.

Speaker 1 (02:32:10):
Squirrel, it's a mad squirrel.

Speaker 2 (02:32:15):
Like the dog's Intrusive.
Oh my gosh the dog is intrusive.

Speaker 3 (02:32:18):
You have a friend I have, I have a friend indeed.

Speaker 4 (02:32:22):
Um yeah, baker's my new buddy fozzie's gonna be
super jealous of you when theygo home it as long as they're.

Speaker 3 (02:32:30):
I think that's oh, you just want to snuggle, don't
you want to snuggle?

Speaker 1 (02:32:35):
okay, for for reference.
When I was giving a baker bakerlike treats earlier he was
running away from me and nowhe's like staring me deeply in
the eyes like we're friends,we're friends um, but baker get

(02:32:56):
down I have a new.

Speaker 2 (02:32:59):
I have a new uh he wants to be on the on the
podcast go lay down go lay downpoor baker I know this is
normally our sit on the couchand snuggle time yeah, this is

(02:33:21):
my usually my sit on the couchand snuggle fozzy time too.

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