July 30, 2024 • 59 mins
Denise Musselwhite is the founder of Tech and Thrive. She is a dynamic person that is memorable. We have been connected through a number of Women’s groups that focus on technology. One of the words she shared to describe herself is Deliberate, and the definition of this word means to carefully think or talk something through. Slow and measured, the pace of this kind of careful decision making. As the daughter of immigrants to the US she learned to move through life with a heavy focus on her serving her clients. She believes this is essential for success for her clients as well as her own business.
She grew up in an entrepreneurial family that focused on service. She helped her family by translating technical writing into Spanish for her parents.
When thinking through what she wanted her career to be, she knew it would be in technology. She was the first gen in her family to attend college and started with Valencia College when it was a 2-year college.
As a woman in technology and working her way to become a Chief Information Officer, she represents less than 2% of the workforce as a Latina woman in the tech world. She started her own business because she grew up watching her family be entrepreneurs. She went back to get her masters degree when she turned 45 and focused her master’s thesis on the barriers that hold women back in their careers. Before COVID, she discovered that stem careers focused more on men rather than women. Women are still not represented in technology leadership roles. Only 26% are leaders in the tech world. Less than 3% Latinas make it to the top of the tech leadership.
When asked what is the best mentoring advice you want to share with our listeners? Her response was that in order for you to accelerate your own growth and development you have to understand who you are and decide who you are. If you allow someone to decide who you are for you. One needs to understand what you need and a strategy with a plan of action to move towards your strengths
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:09):
Hi, my name is Isabella Johnston,The Intern Whisperer.
Our show is all about the future of workand innovation.
And I am the founder of Employers 4 Change, which brings this show to you,
Today's guest,
You guys are going to be really excitedabout this person is Denise Musselwhite.
She is the founder of Tech & Thrive,and her mission
is to be a catalyst for change.
(00:29):
I absolutely love this type of verb.
I think we should all be this.
You're going to learn more about her.
She provides a unique blend of traditionalexecutive and leadership coaching,
subject specific advisory and evidence-based multi-dimensional asset-assessments.
You're going to learn all about that too.
She, actually partners with clientsso that they can make strategic decisions,
(00:54):
set meaningful objectives,
and develop the skills and self-awarenessneeded for success.
Tech & Thrive does not offer a one sizefits all solution.
Rather, she recognizes the challengesand-that individuals face,
especially womenand People of Color in tech.
She is committed to helping individualsand organizations achieve their full
(01:15):
potential while navigating the obstaclesthat we all experience in life.
So, Denise, we kick off the show
with (01:23):
What are the five words that describe you and why?
And your first word was Curious. Yeah.
Why Curious?Hi.
I picked
curious becauseit's like how I, move through the world.
I'm super curious about almost everything.
And um, it's the way that I learn.
(01:44):
It's the way that I growby asking questions.
Listening deeply to what people say.
Watching their body language.
It's-
It's just how I experience the worldthrough a lens of curiosity.
You know what’s funny about that word to me
is that a lot of people use that word,and I teach Sunday school.
(02:05):
I like to work with three year olds,but a child, you know, less than five.
They're always very curious.
And I do that intentionallybecause it reminds me to be curious.
I get to play,I get to do the things that kids do.
And I think that you are very,very similar
to that same curiosity of a childthat is always going.
But why? And questioning,Yeah.
(02:26):
Yeah.
I think my natural curiosity iswhat helped me succeed
in technology managementas a Chief Information Officer over,
you know, a couple of decadesthat-that was the part of who
I am innately that helped me succeed.
There is just this deep curiosityabout how things work and how people work.
(02:47):
That is very true.
Your second word was Deliberate.
Why deliberate?
You know,I am the oldest child in the family.
My parents are immigrantsto this country.
And everybody listening who understandswhat an immigrant family story is,
there's always someone in the familywho has to be the person who kind of
(03:09):
keeps all of the ducks in a row,and that was me.
So um, I am really deliberate
about the way that I move through life,
and the way that I serve clientsand in my business,
because I really do thinkthat having a plan.
(03:29):
is essential to success.
And while I know thatsome people experience life and understand
that there's a lot of luckthat comes to people,
you really can't react to luckunless you have a plan.
So it's just I'm so planful that I find
that-that comes out as deliberate.
(03:53):
I understand what you mean.
About Warm you mentioned warm.Yeah.
One of the things that I love about,I think a lot of cultures are very warm
and usually it's anythingthat's in the Caribbean and
you know, the whole Centraland South America.
Not to diminish any other cultures, but
I've always wanted to be - I’m a Spanishwannabe.
(04:16):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.Latin wannabee.
So my parents are PuertoRican and Dominican,
and I think people who are familiarwith that culture, understand
that while it's loud and, gregarious, everything that happens in
those environmentscomes from a place of warm and family,
connecttivity and
(04:39):
I feel like I create warmth
in, organizationsand with people, which is kind of funny
because throughout my career, peoplewould always sa-some of the feedback
I received was“I was intense. ”or “Too direct.”,
which is so counterto who I am as a person.
And I find that-that's because I am,
(04:59):
trying to be someone who I'm notin those spaces.
That's what I've learned about myself,is that really, I'm naturally warm.
And in order to overcompensate for what
I saw as necessary in the technology
space that's male-dominated, I needed to,
be more direct and more,
(05:22):
intense, when really,that's not my natural disposition.
I agree with you
because, as a previous or
a current educator, I am very direct.
I think that, it is importantto not waste people's time.
So that's why,you know, indirect is a good thing. Yeah.
(05:43):
If we choose to stay that wayand like your word, Intentional
with warmth, it actually helps to manage,
the meaning of the wordsthat we're saying.
Yeah.
So people know that you are actually warmbecause of the way you say it
and how you are, taking it from way uphere.
(06:04):
My hand is in the air, listeners,for those that listen
and bringing it down to heart levelso that it's actually,
you know, hitting them in the heart, not kind of on their head. Yeah.
So I've been working on that for many,many years to make sure that my authentic
warm self comes out, even though I dopresent as direct and intense,
which also is part of my Latinahood. Yes.
(06:26):
Yeah, definitely.
Insightful. Why insightful?
I'm a deep thinker, and
that deep thinking comes with lots of insights
about how the world works, how the worldof work works for the people in it.
And, I use those insightsthat I've gathered, the ret-research
(06:48):
I've done, and the clients I serve in,the organizations that I'm a part of
to really craft solutions
that intersectwith what people need in the workplace,
and then also serve organizationsin a way that can move their,
organization’s mission forwardwithout sacrificing people.
(07:11):
I like that.
Yeah, that's really nice.
Last word.
Fun loving.
First, I like to be around funloving people because I'm so deliberate.
I can kind ofbe a stick in the mud sometimes,
but really, at the center of who I amis just,
I love fun,
and even if I'm not the one that'screating the fun I like to be around fun.
(07:33):
So I find that hard to believethat you're not creating it.
I absolutely cannot believethat I can create some fun, but,
I just love to be in fun-loving environments,
and I like thewords fun and love together.
And they really mean a lot to me,
because I think fun at the end of the dayis the manifestation of love.
(07:56):
Oh yeah.
And when you can have fun with people
you just get to another level of work.
Right.
That is so productive and and so engaging.
So how do we make work more fun?
Yeah. Gamification for sure.
Yeah-Yeah, we know that.
That's always-I think, you know, as a, lifelong techie,
(08:18):
fun is just where it's at, right?
That's why it's such a cool career.
I agree.
So why don't you tell our listenersabout how you got started,
where did you go to school?How did you end up to where you are?
I know that one of your goals is to,um, y’know,
provide a different way of,engaging your audience.
(08:40):
So sharewhatever it is that you want to share.
Well, my story is,
unique to me, but not unique
to immigrants who understand what it'slike to grow up in an immigrant family.
So my parents, like I mentioned before,are Puerto Rican and Dominican,
and they moved to New York City,when they were in their teens separately.
(09:00):
They married later, onand I grew up in Bronx, New York.
My parents worked really, really hardas, small business owners.
They started a mechanic shop in the Bronx,with a loan from a family member.
Neither of my parentshad the benefit of going to college,
(09:21):
even though they were brilliantpeople and hard working.
And, they started their first service
station and named itDenise’s Service Station.
Oh, my GodFor their oldest daughter.
which is kind of funny and weird, but,
I grew up in a service stationalongside my parents.
(09:41):
My mom was the office manager accountant,
and my dad was the leadmechanic and fixer of all things.
He was self-taught,
and decided to pursue thatafter he returned from The Vietnam War.
Fast forward to
ten year old me.
My parents decided to moveto Orlando, Florida
(10:04):
in pursuit of a family-friendly place to raise their children.
So I'm one of three kids, the oldest,like I mentioned,
and they moved to Orlandobecause they visited Disney once
and they found thatit was very family-friendly.
And then clearly, family values live whereDisney is so they sold everything.
(10:25):
And we moved to Orlandoand my parents use that,
the resources from selling their homeand everything else
that they owned to start a new servicestation here in Orlando called Hi-Tech.
Tune Up.
Okay.
And, if you've been in the Orlando areafor a long time,
you'll be familiar with it.
It was on the cornerof Bennett and East Colonial.
(10:47):
But, I
grew up going to that service stationevery day after school.
My dad had to buy a, computerdiagnostic device to read
the error codes on these newfangled carsthat were now run by computers.
And I became his apprentice.
He needed me to translate thattechnical manual to him and his mechanics.
(11:09):
Nice.That's where my technology career started.
And, I had a natural aptitude for it.
It was really easy for me to understandthe manuals and the diagnostic
readings, and I was able to help translatethat for them.
from a technical perspectiveand that kind of
ability to translate technology
(11:31):
followed me throughout high schooland into college.
I started college at Valencia.
it was at the timeValencia Community College.
Yeah.Now it's Valencia State College.
and I went to Valenciabecause my parents couldn't
afford to send me to a four year university,
and they agreed to payfor the first two years of school for me,
(11:55):
because they understood
that education was incredibly important,but that I had to start at a state,
college.
And I thoughtI was going to become an attorney.
So I got a legal studies degree.
And when I graduated with
that legal studies degree,I got a full time job as a Paralegal.
And turns outI spent all my time as a paralegal, really
(12:17):
helping everybody else understandthe technology that we were using
in the law firm at that time,which was in the early 90s.
That led me to decide that
I needed to pursue technology as a careerand not become an attorney.
And then I went to UCF and got my degreein technology
of Management of Information Systems,which was new at the time.
(12:38):
It was state of the art,
and I was one of the few womento graduate with that program.
That’s a big deal,because we're going to take a little pause So-
there just because here you are, firstgen going to college, and then you're
also learning about technology,and you're also Latin and you're a woman.
So a lot of big milestonesbeing hit there.
(12:58):
Yeah.
So, as a woman in technology
whose landed or was able to work my way up
and become a Chief InformationOfficer, is pretty unique.
I've also been and I'm currently
the board chair of a national organizationthat serves technology leaders.
Very, very rare for a Latinato be able to do this.
(13:18):
I represent less than 2% of the workforce,in this regard.
But it-it came from a place of deepcuriosity
and passion for technologyand an ability to learn it quickly
and to translate it to other peoplewho didn't understand it.
That was the cornerstone of the waythat I worked.
And it's served me well in my career.
(13:40):
So let's fast forward to your own business
that you have, Tech & Thrive.
How did you decide to do that?
I mean, you know,you already had worked for other people,
but it's a big stepto go into business for yourself.
Yeah.
Well, I think that, when you see your parents
succeed in small businessas, entrepreneurs,
(14:02):
it plants a little seed in youthat-that's a way of life.
Even though my parents really, tried their best to make sure that I never
did that, that I actually sought securityand, a regular paycheck.
And they really wanted to make surethat I had a stable work place.
And I did that for 30years as a technology leader.
(14:24):
What I found is I decided to go back to,
get my Masters in leadershipwhen I was 45 years old.
Because I'm a lifelong learner
and I just love learningand I can't get enough of the classroom.
And that was when my life, allowed meto go back to school
because I've raised three-three kids.
I'm still raising one who's 12.
(14:47):
my thesis in that program
was (14:50):
“What are the barriers that hold women back in STEM careers?”
And at the time, we were experiencingthe pandemic
and I was living through being a CIO,
executive level team memberwhile transitioning a school
to virtual instruction literally overnightas a result of the pandemic.
(15:14):
I was experiencing what I was learningin my research myself
because I was a executivewith three kids at home
trying to complete collegeand go to school alongside
my husband and I, who are both executives,during the pandemic.
And I was not present for them,I couldn't be.
(15:36):
I actually could not help themwith anything that they had to do,
because I was responsiblefor transitioning a school
in a -in the pandemic,and that was my primary
focus during that time, during a timewhere my kids needed me most,
because the world was,
uncertain. Yeah.
And my job was to be-to helpmy organization transition.
(15:58):
And I was very committed to that.
I love that,
but it was like I was living the resultsof the survey - of all of the work
I was researching these barriersthat women face
as parents, as nurturers,as professionals,
are really, really heavyand they hold us back from progress
(16:20):
in STEM careers because STEMcareers are-were designed for men,
you know?
Well, originallyI really maybe that was the intention.
Yeah.
Yeah,they were designed to work for a society
that was created for men to go to work,not for women to go to work.
And we turn ourselves inside out in order
(16:42):
to work within those systems.
And while it's changed, women
still are not represented in technologyin significant ways.
We only represent 26%
of leadership in technology.
Women of Color, Latinos, Black Women,less than 3%.
(17:03):
We-we have a long way to go.Wow.
And because of this, I decided to leave
my very secure and safesix figure job to launch a company
that could change the needle on thatby serving organizations and clients
who want to liberate themselvesfrom what is termed today Burnout,
(17:25):
that technology creates.
And it creates that for so many reasons,
but that's what I do now.
I serve organizations and individuals,and changing that,
I think that's a - that's a big weight to carry, right?
Because we knowjust based on the statistics
that you shared, that it is-it is hard to do that.
(17:45):
And it does comewith somewhat of a sacrifice-s-somewhat.
But it's, it comes at,
I think an even greater cost to whatwomen do.
And I know we talked about this
before the show started,about how we are really hard on ourselves.
So the ability to transitionquickly is vital
(18:08):
to be that top 26% or that top,
where was it 3%?
Yeah.
For me,representing that less than 3% of Latinas
who made it to the C-suite, meansthat I'm made of something really strong.
Yeah, powerful.
And there's no reason I can't succeedin every single other place
(18:30):
that I want to-to experiment.
And if I'm going to take a risk,I'm going to bet on myself
and all of the women and people of colorwho I know have what it takes to succeed.
Yeah, that's an easy bet for me.
Yeah.
And I you know, many times when I workwith, students, I'm going to make sure
(18:50):
I have my microphone better positionedwhen I work with students.
of all colors, I explained to them.
So let me tell you how this hiring systemreally works,
they're going to pick every single man,every single color of man,
way above all of us.
And there's still a hierarchy there.
And then when it comes to women,you're still going to see, you know,
I'm white, so I'll get picked.
(19:12):
But they'll also pick Asian.
And then they're going to go to Hispanicand then they're going to be picking
the Black womenis how I've seen it play out.
And then I go “It's harder,
so you have to stand outway more than everybody else.
And let me be that ally for youthat can help you to stand out
because it's hard enough.”
(19:32):
But, you know, when you have other peoplethat are rooting for
you and making those introductionsand, it can be.
Yeah.
I love that you do that.So that's what I,
Yeah.
I'm, I'm-I’m an ally, a coach to individualswho are experiencing
a feeling of undervalue,y’know, they feel undervalued
in their organizationsor they feel underestimated.
(19:56):
I come in alongside themand try to create a strategic plan
that really helps them narrowin on what their strengths are,
how they serve, best,what their unique characteristics
are in their unique formulafor leadership.
And we get at the center of that and startcreating a strategic plan
so that they canact on what their goals are.
(20:19):
And I have great success in thatwith all of the clients
I've served in the last, two yearssince I launched Tech & Thrive.
I'm so happy to see that.
Like I said, we,you and I both know how hard that is.
And having, a coach that is there to help
cheer you on when you need to be cheered on and-
and then somebody
(20:39):
that will talk to you and say, “Hey, I'mgoing to tell you what you need to hear.”
You know, a direct communicatorlike yourself.
Very vital. Yeah, yeah.
People, well-um, families mean well.
And they'll tell youwhat you want to hear,
but you really need to have peoplethat are gonna be honest.
So I'm-I'm glad that's one of the maintenets of your company there.
So who is one of your thoughtleaders and why?
(21:02):
You know, I struggled with this question
when you asked itbecause two people came to mind.
You can mention both. Okay.
The two people that came to mindare Oprah Winfrey.
I admire her on a, many, many levels.
Mainly because of what she givesback to the world
as a result of her, fame and fortune.
(21:25):
The starting of schools for girlsthat are underrepresented in countries
that suffer from poverty, to me,is just like reaching a place in the world
where you can give back on that levelis something that means a lot to me.
And then also Brené Brown,
I love her research and her work
(21:45):
and how authentic she is about who she is,
how vulnerability playsa critical role in our development
as leaders, and creating workplaceswhere people can be vulnerable
and feel safe at the same timeis something that I care deeply about.
So those two women really inspire meand help me to,
(22:06):
kind of, they offer a beacon
of a little bit of a legacythat I would like to leave
a combination of those two,and then you throw in a little Jennifer Lopez
and you get Denice.
Oh that's funny.So that's like the three of them all mixed up.
And that's me.
You know that she's also an entrepreneurI mean you know all of these women are. Yes.
(22:27):
But Jennifer Lopez is somebody thatI think inspires a lot of Latin women.
Just because, you know,she grew up from the the Bronx.
You know, the her original first song. Yeah. Yeah.
And she's been able to transform herselfas she's been a woman that is aging.
Also,she's amazing with what you know, she
(22:49):
I don't know when she sleeps,but I'm sure she does.
But, you know,she is a really good example
of how you can have a lot of businesses.
You can have amazing people around you,
and be able to definitely give back,like what you mentioned.
Yeah. So from Winfrey and Brun-Brit- Yeah so,
so if I like when I pickthe three of them, it's because I,
(23:10):
I admire something about each of themand there's just a little bit
of what they bring to the world in methat I'm trying to, give back.
So I'm going to go and use this word.
I don't think you're trying my friend.
So if I get say “Here pick up a penciland try-you drop it on the ground.
So drop it on the ground.Now try and pick it up.”
(23:33):
You're not trying. You're picking it up.
Yes, I am picking itup. I'm not trying. I'm doing it.
That is right. So I'm going to make sure that you. Yes.
Thank you for thinking about that.
Yes, I am doing it.
Yeah. There's an option to not do itwhen we try.
But if you're doing itYeah-I am doing it.
That is right. There you go.
YeahThanks for that reminder.
Because well, I know,-I know the words that we use are important.
(23:56):
They arethey are, because before the show
started, we were - I was telling you,there's just and kind of.
And I go, “Ugh, those are diminishing words.
It means I have an option.”,and I see try as the same one.
And you gave me a lot of inspirationbefore the show started.
You were helping me to reframe.
So I'm just returning that also, you know,because we need each other.
(24:17):
Yes we do.
Yeah, we all absolutely do.
I think that they're amazing women.
I want to tell youthank you for sharing those.
So, let's talk about, power posing.
I know you have good stories.I haven't heard them. Oh, okay.
So in an articlethat was published in 2023, I actually saw
this on Gray's Anatomy.
That's where I originally,they talked about power posing
(24:39):
on there.Okay.
And they said, so I researched
“What is this power posingthat Gray's Anatomy is talking about?”
And they said it was researchthat was at Martin Luther King University.
Hale Wittenberg University, the University of Bamberg,
the-the Ohio State University,
they all published metaanalysis information that was looking at,
(25:01):
close to 130 experimentswith 10,000 participants.
And the objective was to find outwhether consciously,
people, womenare deciding to have a certain posture
that can influence a person'sconfidence, behavior and hormone levels.
So I don't know what your thoughts areon this study
if you practice power posing,but tell me more about it.
(25:24):
I, I find it fascinatingthat this is something you bring up here
because, power posingis something that I do utilize.
And I actually, and - an- encouragemy clients to use it as well.
I practice this, recently
I, as a board chair ofa national organization, I get to address,
(25:45):
you know, an audience of more than 500people annually at a conference.
And this year, just a few months ago,
I practiced my power pose
in front of the entire audiencein order to inspire
and to relate to the individualsin the audience
(26:05):
who may be presenting at the conferencefor the very first time.
and nervous, and giving them that advice from the stage
for them to use the Wonder Woman pose,
before they speak, in order
to change their presence,and to gain confidence.
(26:27):
It was well-received.
I didn't expect the feedbackfrom the audience as a result of it,
but throughout the entire
three days of the conference,people were power posing everywhere
at the start of all of their workshopsand breakout sessions.
So I started the hashtag,
#WonderWoman,with some of my posts on LinkedIn.
(26:49):
so I have experience with this.
I do agreewith the findings of the research.
and I feature a bookby Amy Cuddy called Presence that talks
about our- um - our presence, and she also talksabout some of that research,
about power posing in the mirroror however you need to do it.
(27:09):
So that's on my website if you want tovisit that blog about that book.
Oh, thanks for sharing that.
I think the funniest thingthat you mentioned
is that you saw people at the conferencedoing it. Yeah.
And I went, you know what?
It should have put something out therethat said #ICanThrive.
#PowerPose, #WonderWoman.
Yeah.
Next time you do that. Yep.
(27:30):
And then you'll be able to see the power.Yeah.
of the power. Yes. You're right, you're right.
I need to be,leverage those marketing chops,
better.Yeah.
The first one is our learning opportunity.
From here on out, you're going to take itout, make it bigger.
I know, I'm so confident in you
So, what would you want to beremembered for in your life?
(27:53):
You know,
I think this is such a great question.
And when I was going throughthe certification program, to become,
a coach, there was like, 300 days
of, work for 300 consecutive days.
You go through this teaching,and one of the things that that
certification asked me to do was to, like,write my own eulogy.
(28:16):
Oh, wow.
Was that hard?
It was difficult. It was difficult.
And, this question about, you know,what do you want to leave
as a legacy in the world, is very similarto that writing your own eulogy exercise.
I'm pretty clear that I want
people to saythat they saw a deep caring for people
(28:38):
and deep purpose in leaving the worldbetter
for anyone that I have access to.
Right?
So that's what I want to leave inthe world, is I just want to leave it
better than I found it,in my small sphere of influence.
And at this age, I'm 50.
(29:00):
I celebrated my 50th year this year.
I have a deep -
connection to-to-to what I can influence.
And I know what it isand I'm going to leave an impact there.
I'm going to make a differencefor other people who look like
me, for People Of Colorin Technology, for,
(29:23):
our allies and all of these peoplethat I know are following me on LinkedIn,
I want to make a difference for themand modeling that for my children
is what deeply matters for me.
Any of your children female? Yes.
I have, three - three children.
(29:43):
my oldest is 23, a boy,my middle child is, a daughter.
She's 20 and my youngest is 12. So,
Male or female? I-he's male.
Okay.So two boys and a girl.
Okay.
And two out of three are in technologyso far,
(30:04):
I don't know,I kind of think that everybody's in tech.
Not maybe as the career,but you can't escape it. Yeah.
Yeah, but it’s a career path.No you can’t, so-so-so,
Yeah.
So, I have three kidsand I aim to inspire them.
Oh, I'm sure you do.
I know the funny thingis, when I ask them, like,
“When you think about your mom, ”you know,“What are the things that come up?”
(30:25):
and they always say stuff like,“You get things done, Mom.”
And I'm like, “Okay, that's okay.”
Yeah.That's something.
Yeah, it is, it is.Going back to that deliberate again.
I think that, as-as people,
we can underestimate that ripple effectthat can happen.
I know that you are touchinga lot of lives every time.
(30:49):
we sell a book, anytimeyou're on a podcast,
anytime that you sharesomething on social,
it's always about, you know, meetinglots of people.
You're a heavy networker also,
I'm quite confident
because that's how I met you
is at a Women in Tech event.
When you were on a panel and I went,“I know I've seen you around.” and I've,
(31:11):
you know, paid attention to you,
but on that panel discussion, you - you made a big impact anyway.
Okay. I got to have her on my podcast.
I just wanted to have you because I went, “She's really smart.”Ah thanks.
Yeah. So.
so you never realize that ripple effectof how
that one, one thing that ‘s - you do,
whatever that one thing ishow that can be touching somebody else.
(31:34):
Yeah, I really appreciate that. Yeah.
I'm learning um, that, the more I share,
the more I connect.
And, I think that's true for all of us.
Yes I would, I would agree with you.
So we're going to take a momentto acknowledge
our sponsor Cat 5 Studios,and we will be right back.
(31:56):
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Thank you, Cat 5 Studios.
So listeners, we are back to the show.
Our guestas a reminder is Denise Musselwhite.
We're going to be talking aboutwhat the future in 2030 will look like.
(32:19):
And it's hard to believe, you know,it seems like, “Oh, that's not that far.”
It's 2024.
So that's six years and 2030 doesn't countbecause that's the year
we're talking about.
And this year we're halfway through it.
So that doesn't necessarily count either.
So it's basically four years from nowwhen you talk about this.
Denise, what do you thinkthe world will look like in 2030
(32:40):
as it relates to your industryand potential jobs?
Okay.
So, 2030 is one of those yearsthat I kind of pay attention to
because it's the year
that my youngest son, Nicholas, isgoing to be graduating from high school.
So it's - it's an important year in my mind.
From a job perspective, I, I really see
(33:03):
an absolute requirementthat everyone be fluent
in generative AI,
as though they're takinga foreign language,
like it's something that everyone is goingto just really need to be fluent about
and need to know how to implement in ways
that support their ownneeds in the workplace.
(33:23):
So navigating that and implementing itand integrating it into our lives
and into our work in a way that feels
fluid is absolutely essential.
generate - generativeAI is the new language of work.
I agree. Right?
So I see that as absolutely importantto everyone listening here
(33:47):
is, if you haven't already tried it,you're already behind.
You know, I saw an articlethat came out two days ago,
and I was reading the headline on it,
and I pulled it upbecause I want to go back and read it
and it said that if if you do not have Gen AI
on your resume, you're going to belosing all kinds of opportunities.
And I totally agree with everythingyou said, and even more because our world,
(34:12):
our resumes, should be reflectingwhat is the impact that we have.
We measure everything in this worldso it needs to be seen on a resume. Yep.
And the other part of it, and I think thatthis is even more important
than us being fluent and fluidin the use of artificial intelligence
is, the more of us that understand
(34:34):
how to speak withand program artificial intelligence,
the more that we can
address the serious ethical concerns
that Artificial Intelligence
create for our society.
Okay, say that last part for me, again,I want to get it exactly in my notes here.
(34:56):
Just the last part, because you saidthe more that we, can understand Okay.
how to speak and createAI and our work can
help us solve the ethical concerns
that AI creates in our worldand in our society.
So everyone needs
to be on the hook for holding
(35:18):
Artificial Intelligence accountable.Right.
To the morals and the valuesthat our society holds dear.
For me, that manifests most specifically
in the way that it may harm children,
and people who are alreadyunderrepresented in our society,
(35:39):
And also the elderly.and the elderly as well.
Yeah.
The people that don't keep upwith them. So -
Yeah.
So I,you know, like with any amazing progress
that we make in the worldthat technology brings, it also
promotes bad actorsto take advantage of it.
And I have a deep concernthat we don't have enough good actors
(36:03):
doing the work to keep up with whatthe bad actors are doing. I agree.
So when it first launched about a yearand a half ago, right,
it was the end of 2022when we heard about it.
It was, something everybody'sscrambling to figure out,
kind of like when Covid happenedand understand it.
And we still are.
I mean, there's a lotthat's out there, all kinds of workshops
(36:25):
and training and everything.
So if we're taking advantage of that
and you - to your point, you mentioned,you know, underrepresented individuals
that may not have access to technologyeven in the US, there's plenty of people.
We don't even have to go out of that - out of our country to find that there's
elderly who, just by virtue of the nature,they go, “Oh, I'm retired.”
(36:48):
They give up on trying.
And then there's kids and they justtouch everything and they don't read.
Right?
So when you think about those three groupsof people,
it's going to be vitalto have individuals that are going, “Okay.
We - we have to put checksand balances in place.
Do you know when it first came outI was going, well,
what are the organizations that are outthere that are about ethics and AI?
(37:10):
Because that's what I want to be on.
Do you know of any?
Because I research it,it's always updating.
I can't say I have one particular onethat is a leader yet that I know of,
but I don't know if you know.
And you know it’s ok if you don’t.I had this conversation
on LinkedIn recently and I was wonderingexactly the same thing.
And I put out a questionon what - what private equity
(37:36):
is investing in
AI for good or ethical use - the - use of AI?
Because we hear all kinds of reportsabout all of the private
Yeah.equity money that is going into AI development, but
Wher - how much of that moneyis going into the ethical uses of AI?
Yeah.and, you know, my gut tells me, and if history serves: not much
(37:58):
because, we,
as a societylook for profit over people in many ways
and start to try to answer the
unintentional outcomes
that come from new technologiesafter the fact.
We don't program - program thatinto the initial uses of the technology.
(38:18):
And I'm doing a call of action herethat we must create,
ethical guidelines.
Yeah.
When we create the technologyalongside of the technology.
I agree with you.
Yeah, I agree
now I know that I, I would like to beone of those people that does it.
So when we - when I'm going to givethis is something that you and I,
(38:41):
we can talk about our fear.
So maybe we should look at - startby doing this kind of small.
What are the groups that are out there
and see if there's somethingthat we can already join.
Maybe it's something that's alreadyan organization like, you know,
Women In Tech and go, is there anythingis there a committee on that?
Like maybewe could be starting that committee?
(39:01):
So I wish I knew the answer to that.
But that’s ok, it’s our challenge.Maybe somebody listening to this or challenge.
Yeah, we figure this out.We have to figure it out.
Yeah. Yeah.
And somebody out there, they - they can be incentivized by us
and reach out to us and say, hey,I want to be a part of that. Yeah.
Or they want us to join their thing.
Let's, let's just use this opportunityso that we can be
the ones that are helpingthat conversation to happen. Yeah.
(39:23):
And how can we use AI to help uscraft those ethics?
Yeah, well,maybe it's going to tell us the truth.
Yeah, I don't know, I don't know.
Yeah.
I'm not so sure because it - it is just this vast
amount of every Google searchthat we've ever done in the whole world.
So that's good.
And the not so good stuff that peopleput out there and then, you know,
it'll give us the answers to that,but it won't be comprehensive.
(39:46):
So it does require humans, to dominate.
I'm just going to say, in a good way. Yeah.
All right.
So you touched on a lotabout the things that were about positive
and negative impactthat Gen AI can have on the work world.
Is there anything elsethat you want to add to that?
Um, you know, I think wewe touched on a lot. We - we touched on a lot.
(40:07):
You know, I do, I listen
I love Michelle,to your episode with Michelle Moore, who is - I really adore her,
and she is right on pointwhen she talks about,
disconnecting from technology
and the digital dopamine hitsthat we are all addicted to.
I do think that by 2030 there is goingto be, it's already starting.
(40:30):
We see it here in Florida,
absolutely.
And, there was a recent, surgeongeneral, made a - a warning
about the impact of digitalsocial media on children.
I do think that there's going to bea lot of energy in this place
where we're all trying to disconnectfrom our digital addiction,
(40:52):
myself included.
I think so too, because if the first thing
we rely on technology to wake us up inthe morning, we don't use clocks anymore.
We use our phone, we rely on technologies - some people do - to use it
with, programs that are out there.
Web apps aboutlet us help you follow sleep
and then it's measuringeverything we do in our sleep.
(41:13):
We rely on technology to communicateand all of these things.
So disconnecting, super importantbecause that's
going to allow us to be more creative.
Well, I'm,I'm super curious about how much, funding
is going towards that type of, work.
Because when you followthat trail of private equity
(41:34):
and investments,you can see some of what the future holds.
And I just don'tknow if there's a lot there.
I'm sure there is.
Do you ever watch - have you ever seenthis show called Black Mirror?
It is dark.I have, it was super creepy.
I couldn't make it pastthe first two episodes.
It was too dark.
It is. I went to episode five.
(41:55):
There was one. An episode.
I mean, season four, one that I couldn'twatch.
And I went, okay, I got to take a break.
And then, five came outand I watched one of them.
But I think that there's a lot of, cautionary tales.
Oh, absolutely.
That we we should be aware of. Yeah.
Because if it's there,it's already in the world.
And if it's already been seen on thatshow, you can count that Yeah.
(42:18):
free publicitythat's promoted that kind of, um,
Scary mindset.
Yeah.
And then there is something elsethat's on Netflix that I can recommend
and it's more positive.
It's called The Future Of. That onebalances out dark with Black Mirror. Oh, more optimistic.
Yeah. Yeah yeah.
It talks a lot about how AR, VR, robots,everything
(42:41):
that you saw on Black Mirror, but you knowhow it's being used and - and pause.
Oh I, I'm going to check that one.
Now look for that one.
Yeah, I tend to lean towardswatching more optimistic,
futuristic programs.
I'm looking for thatbecause there's so much of the opposite
freely availablethat I need to bring in the optimism.
(43:02):
Yeah.
Just so we stay somewhat balanced, right?
Go - okay.Yeah.
There are good people in the world. Yes.
I get what you're saying here.
So something else that, I had found was, a gentleman named Geoffrey Hinton.
He's called “The Godfather of AI”.
He was on 60 Minutesback on October 8th of last year,
(43:24):
and he was giving cautions againto everybody.
He said,“I really wish I had never created it.”
He had left Googlewhen he used to work for Google.
I believe it was IBM also.
And there was this - in the 60s,this bunch of, whole bunch
of people, scientistmen that had created a lot of things
that we’re experiencingnow, technology wise.
(43:48):
Anyway, one of the waysin which these systems might escape
control is by writing their own computercode to modify themselves, Hinton said.
And that's somethingwe need to seriously worry about.
I find itinteresting that a person that created it
now has gone to a 180 and is saying,“You know what?
We - we really need to pay attention.”
(44:10):
And I wonder how many people, scientistsin the world
that create things, sit here and go, “Gosh,was that a good thing?”
Because the question that I askedmyself is
usually just because we can use AI,just because we can have robots,
does that mean we should do this?
Because there are people,
(44:31):
when you talk about underrepresented, it'snot just color.
It's about,you know, economic wages that they make.
There are peoplethat don't have the mental
and emotional capacityto have jobs that can be programmers.
So when we look at all of these jobsthat are supposedly being created
in the world, we don't accountfor the ones that don't fit that checkbox.
(44:54):
And I go, just because we can doesn'tmean we should.
There is a McDonald'sthat is here in Orlando that does not have
any humans in it, and you just go inand you interact with the systems.
That's a little disappointingbecause everybody's first job,
many people, not everybody,
their first job might have been saying,“Hi, welcome to McDonald's.”
(45:14):
It could be “Hi, welcome to Walmart.”
The individual that's,you know, elderly or uh, a disabled veteran.
These are the people that I go,
“But where are they going to bethe ones that don't want it?”
Yeah, I, I hear you there.
I have a more optimistic outlook about it
because when these technologies,
(45:36):
augment the way that people work,I do believe that it creates
new opportunities for peopleto do what computers can't.
And that is interrelate on a human level.
So I do think that there is going to be
an increase in the need for peopleto have emotional intelligence
(45:58):
and soft skillsin a way that doesn't exist today,
because computers just can't interact,
interrelate on the human levelthe way that humans can.
So when I think about what you just said,
I go back to
how are we within our educational systems,
(46:21):
encouraging interpersonal connectivity
outside of our digital lives
so that everyone graduates with a high EQ,
right?
That high EQ is absolutely necessary
to our developing world.
(46:41):
And when we take our eye off of the highEQ ball,
we lose a lot of what humanity is.
So how are our educational systems
and universities really, really programing
emotional intelligence into our curricula?
(47:03):
On a very basic level.
So I'm going to let you know,I go to business advisory meetings.
And this is something that they talk aboutall the time.
And many times,
it's a frustration pointbecause educators are already overworked
and they only see, you know, peoplefor X amount of hours.
(47:26):
Whether you're in the public classroomor if you're in higher ed,
it's not just somethingthat's for people in education.
It is something that we as a societyneed to realize
we all have a responsibility for.
So it should happen in the workplace.
It should happen in your schools,it should be happening in your families.
(47:47):
And for those that don't have families,it needs to be in the nonprofit groups
that help support people that are not,you know, seen and heard.
They're off the radar.
It needs to be a solutionthat is globally, you know, embraced.
Yeah.
And I think that ARand VR have some answers for us
(48:09):
in creating environments that help,
individualsincrease their emotional intelligence.
And that may sound counterbecause it's a technology rich space,
the AR, VR, but it also creates,emotional connections
and people can test safelyhow to explore, emotional intelligence
(48:29):
in ways that feel safer to themthan doing it with a human.
So I do think that technology can help usaccelerate progress here.
And,
you know,that emotional intelligence piece,
I think is really, really critical
as we look ahead to 2030, 2040and into our future.
(48:51):
I would agree with you.And I, I think we just have
to figure out what to removeso that we make space for that.
What's no longer relevant,
and make spacefor that EQ curricula and teaching.
I think that we're going to see thingschanging in the world quite a bit.
So there is a forecast, in the jobs
(49:13):
for the future that says that individualshaving their own coach,
individuals having more of a customizedlearning approach is going to happen.
So teacher positions for teachersis supposed
to increase, the demand for having coacheswill increase.
Having it be something that's affordableis going to be very needed, obviously.
(49:34):
So the next question that leads itselfinto what ethical dilemmas
do you foresee? Now you've touched on quite a few others.
Honestly.Yeah.
But you know, there's I raised thisas the next one, you know, funding,
being able to have access to moneythat allows you to have that.
That's a lot of timeswhy people have apps,
that you can download on your phone.
Most, even most homeless people.
(49:56):
I've seen they have a phone.
Maybe not with the same plansthat we enjoy, but, Yeah.
having that be something that allows themto interact with humans because,
we'll use the homelessas the ethical dilemma.
How do we help them?
Those that want
to be helped, be able to be seen
(50:19):
and heard and to be able to breakthat poverty issue.
I knowwe're not going to cover this in the show.
I know we’re not,but it's just like one of the questions
that would be askedwhether it's homelessness, people
without jobs,it can be individuals with disabilities.
I mean, pick a group, right?
Yeah.
You know, I think mental healthand wellness is the place you start.
Yeah. There from an investment perspective.
(50:42):
Yeah. Right.
That you have to be well within yourselfbefore you can actually serve,
your society.
and I think that health, mental healthand wellness is a, one of
our greatest calls to action and the placewhere we need to see investments.
I agree, the library,just so you know, the,
Orlando Public Library, the Melrose Center is a technology center.
(51:06):
If you haven't been there,you absolutely should go.
They did a game jam that was last year,and they posed social issues
as one of the game based solutionsthey wanted to create.
How could they create,something that could be a game
that would allow the homelessor those that were without jobs
(51:27):
to be able to find jobs,to be able to access resources
that are available for all of them.
Having it as a free app
that was bringing a solutionto more people,
not necessarilygoing to eradicate it for everything,
but just being able to bring resourcesmore, make it more available to people.
(51:49):
I found that, an interesting thingthere was about,
I think there was a little over50 people that signed up,
and there was about 10 to 12 solutionsthat came out of it.
And those were all possibleto be funded to the point that you -
Right. Wow, wow. That's awesome.
Yeah.
So sometimes it'sjust this one idea that somebody has
(52:12):
that can be something that makes a ripplethroughout the world.
Yeah.
And changes lives for the better.
Yeah, yeah.
So, I think that, that's all relevant.
And, you know, it'sdefinitely part of that ethical dilemma.
So it's hard to believewe're at the end of the show.
And it reallyhas been pretty close to an hour.
(52:33):
what is the best mentoring advicethat you want to share
with our listeners about the future?
The advice that
I would share aboutthe future is in order for you
to accelerate your own growthand development, you really need
to understand who you are as a leaderand as an individual.
(52:55):
Without that understanding,you're waiting for supervisors, mentors,
and other systems
to define who you areand when someone else defines who you are
and it doesn't matchwith who you really are, there's friction
and a lack of connection to your work.
(53:15):
So the advice I haveis to really understand what you need
and to establish a strategy,a plan of action,
so that you can fill in the gapsand move towards your strengths.
I created a thrive quiz
that provides a way for technologyprofessionals
(53:37):
to really measure the areasin which they're thriving,
where they might be just surviving,and then for those areas
that you might be seekingand it gives you a score,
and then it also gives yousome tips and tricks and strategies
so that you can move your needlein a direction that works for you.
(53:57):
So I encourageeveryone to use that as a tool.
And to really get honestabout what they need uniquely
to succeed, because everybodyhas a different recipe for success.
That's true. Is this free? Yes.
The thrive quiz is free on my website
and anyoneand everyone is welcome to take it.
Very nice.
(54:17):
How many do you know,how many people have taken it.
Oh my gosh.
I think I launched it
about a year ago and it'swell over a thousand, gathering data
about it, and it's helping meto design new content, and new materials.
So based on the data that I learned fromthe quiz, I'm also tweaking my thrive
(54:38):
operating system, which is a frameworkI created to serve my clients
so that I'm providing more contentin areas that are,
commonly ranked low.
And right now,self-care is the one that's winning.
Oh, self-care is winning, okay?
Self-care is winning as the placewhere people need more support.
(55:01):
Well, what is self-caremean to you or to your customers?
Self-care means, ensuring that you have all of the energy
that you need in orderto serve in the other areas of your life
your work, your family,and also in service to others.
So what is itthat each individual needs in order
(55:22):
to have a full bucket of energy beforethey can give energy to other people?
It's kind of like a bank account.
You can't buy new thingsif you have a negative balance.
So it sounds a lotlike Maslow's theory. Yes.
Yeah. Of of needs.
You have to be able to meetthose five needs to reach.
It's a hierarchy of self-awareness. Yep.
(55:43):
I love it.Yeah. Exactly right.
Love it. Okay.
So how can our listeners contact youyour website your
we have your website or your LinkedInand also the assessment tool.
We're going to be putting all of that
out there on this podcastin the show description.
Is there anything else? Nope.
Why don't you tell us though?That's the best.
What is your websitejust well Oh the website, is
(56:07):
www.techandthrive.com
You can go there and learn all about me.
You can follow me on LinkedIn.
That's where I am at.
I encourage you to reach out in an emailor DM me.
I respond to everyone personally
and I'm looking forwardto learning more about you.
Like I said, I'm super curiousand I am always
(56:30):
at the ready to leverage my network and,to support someone
who is looking to make a transitionor looking to break into technology.
So I'm just going to give somethinga heads up to our listeners.
So when you type tech, it's tech,the word and a n d thrive t h r i v e,
dot com don't be surprisedif it forwards to DeniseMusselwhite.com.
(56:54):
That's normal. Yep.
She's testing some stuff out here.
That's going to beI don't know if you want to know that. No I’m not gonna say anything yet.
Yeah.
But there's a reason.
So don't get concerned about itif you see that happen.
It's what's supposed to happen right now.
Yeah okay.
So I want to thank you so muchfor being a guest on this show.
And this has been delightful.
I feel like I've kind of met - not kind of,
(57:16):
I feel like I've met
one of my my, I don't know,there was this movie called Multiplicity.
Yeah.Oh.
I don't know if you saw that onewith Kevin - Keat. Yes.
Michael Keaton,I remember that movie.
Yeah.
You know, where there’s like these,these versions of himself.
But I feel like I've kind of met my twin,one of my twins.
Kindred spiritsthat is for sure. Kindred spirits.
(57:36):
Anyway.And it's always good.
Thank you for having me on this podcast.
You're amazing.
And I could not have predictedwhere we ended up in this conversation,
so that was really fun.
Yeah, it's always one of those, surprisesthat ends up happening for sure.
That is for sure.
Anyway,
I want to just encourage our listeners,be sure when you listen to this episode,
reach out to to Denise directlyso that you can learn more about yourself
(58:00):
and then mention the showso she knows where you came from.
That would be very, very kind.
And, we we thank you very much, Denise.
You're welcome.
Thank you to our sponsor, Cat5 Studios.
And thank you to our video productionand editing team, Erica Ulman,
Gavin Staley, and Einjar Fabrega.
Music is by Sophie Lloyd.
(58:21):
Visit Employers For Change at WW,
www.e4c.tech to learn how you can recruit,assess and improve employee
learning and company culturethrough DEI skills hiring and learning
Mention you listen to the showwhen you join and become a member,
and you may win a chance to be a gueston The Intern Whisperer podcast.
(58:42):
Subscribe today and supportThe Intern Whisperer by sharing
our show, leaving us comments and reviews.
You can find The InternWhisperer podcast on Employers 4 Change
You Tube channel,or streaming from your favorite podcast channel.
Hi, my name is Isabella Johnston,The Intern Whisperer.
Our show is all about the future of workand innovation.
And I am the founder of Employers 4 Change, which brings this show to you,
Today's guest,
You guys are going to be really excitedabout this person is Denise Musselwhite.
She is the founder of Tech & Thrive,and her mission
is to be a catalyst for change.
(00:29):
I absolutely love this type of verb.
I think we should all be this.
You're going to learn more about her.
She provides a unique blend of traditionalexecutive and leadership coaching,
subject specific advisory and evidence-based multi-dimensional asset-assessments.
You're going to learn all about that too.
She, actually partners with clientsso that they can make strategic decisions,
(00:54):
set meaningful objectives,
and develop the skills and self-awarenessneeded for success.
Tech & Thrive does not offer a one sizefits all solution.
Rather, she recognizes the challengesand-that individuals face,
especially womenand People of Color in tech.
She is committed to helping individualsand organizations achieve their full
(01:15):
potential while navigating the obstaclesthat we all experience in life.
So, Denise, we kick off the show
with (01:23):
What are the five words that describe you and why?
And your first word was Curious. Yeah.
Why Curious?Hi.
I picked
curious becauseit's like how I, move through the world.
I'm super curious about almost everything.
And um, it's the way that I learn.
(01:44):
It's the way that I growby asking questions.
Listening deeply to what people say.
Watching their body language.
It's-
It's just how I experience the worldthrough a lens of curiosity.
You know what’s funny about that word to me
is that a lot of people use that word,and I teach Sunday school.
(02:05):
I like to work with three year olds,but a child, you know, less than five.
They're always very curious.
And I do that intentionallybecause it reminds me to be curious.
I get to play,I get to do the things that kids do.
And I think that you are very,very similar
to that same curiosity of a childthat is always going.
But why? And questioning,Yeah.
(02:26):
Yeah.
I think my natural curiosity iswhat helped me succeed
in technology managementas a Chief Information Officer over,
you know, a couple of decadesthat-that was the part of who
I am innately that helped me succeed.
There is just this deep curiosityabout how things work and how people work.
(02:47):
That is very true.
Your second word was Deliberate.
Why deliberate?
You know,I am the oldest child in the family.
My parents are immigrantsto this country.
And everybody listening who understandswhat an immigrant family story is,
there's always someone in the familywho has to be the person who kind of
(03:09):
keeps all of the ducks in a row,and that was me.
So um, I am really deliberate
about the way that I move through life,
and the way that I serve clientsand in my business,
because I really do thinkthat having a plan.
(03:29):
is essential to success.
And while I know thatsome people experience life and understand
that there's a lot of luckthat comes to people,
you really can't react to luckunless you have a plan.
So it's just I'm so planful that I find
that-that comes out as deliberate.
(03:53):
I understand what you mean.
About Warm you mentioned warm.Yeah.
One of the things that I love about,I think a lot of cultures are very warm
and usually it's anythingthat's in the Caribbean and
you know, the whole Centraland South America.
Not to diminish any other cultures, but
I've always wanted to be - I’m a Spanishwannabe.
(04:16):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.Latin wannabee.
So my parents are PuertoRican and Dominican,
and I think people who are familiarwith that culture, understand
that while it's loud and, gregarious, everything that happens in
those environmentscomes from a place of warm and family,
connecttivity and
(04:39):
I feel like I create warmth
in, organizationsand with people, which is kind of funny
because throughout my career, peoplewould always sa-some of the feedback
I received was“I was intense. ”or “Too direct.”,
which is so counterto who I am as a person.
And I find that-that's because I am,
(04:59):
trying to be someone who I'm notin those spaces.
That's what I've learned about myself,is that really, I'm naturally warm.
And in order to overcompensate for what
I saw as necessary in the technology
space that's male-dominated, I needed to,
be more direct and more,
(05:22):
intense, when really,that's not my natural disposition.
I agree with you
because, as a previous or
a current educator, I am very direct.
I think that, it is importantto not waste people's time.
So that's why,you know, indirect is a good thing. Yeah.
(05:43):
If we choose to stay that wayand like your word, Intentional
with warmth, it actually helps to manage,
the meaning of the wordsthat we're saying.
Yeah.
So people know that you are actually warmbecause of the way you say it
and how you are, taking it from way uphere.
(06:04):
My hand is in the air, listeners,for those that listen
and bringing it down to heart levelso that it's actually,
you know, hitting them in the heart, not kind of on their head. Yeah.
So I've been working on that for many,many years to make sure that my authentic
warm self comes out, even though I dopresent as direct and intense,
which also is part of my Latinahood. Yes.
(06:26):
Yeah, definitely.
Insightful. Why insightful?
I'm a deep thinker, and
that deep thinking comes with lots of insights
about how the world works, how the worldof work works for the people in it.
And, I use those insightsthat I've gathered, the ret-research
(06:48):
I've done, and the clients I serve in,the organizations that I'm a part of
to really craft solutions
that intersectwith what people need in the workplace,
and then also serve organizationsin a way that can move their,
organization’s mission forwardwithout sacrificing people.
(07:11):
I like that.
Yeah, that's really nice.
Last word.
Fun loving.
First, I like to be around funloving people because I'm so deliberate.
I can kind ofbe a stick in the mud sometimes,
but really, at the center of who I amis just,
I love fun,
and even if I'm not the one that'screating the fun I like to be around fun.
(07:33):
So I find that hard to believethat you're not creating it.
I absolutely cannot believethat I can create some fun, but,
I just love to be in fun-loving environments,
and I like thewords fun and love together.
And they really mean a lot to me,
because I think fun at the end of the dayis the manifestation of love.
(07:56):
Oh yeah.
And when you can have fun with people
you just get to another level of work.
Right.
That is so productive and and so engaging.
So how do we make work more fun?
Yeah. Gamification for sure.
Yeah-Yeah, we know that.
That's always-I think, you know, as a, lifelong techie,
(08:18):
fun is just where it's at, right?
That's why it's such a cool career.
I agree.
So why don't you tell our listenersabout how you got started,
where did you go to school?How did you end up to where you are?
I know that one of your goals is to,um, y’know,
provide a different way of,engaging your audience.
(08:40):
So sharewhatever it is that you want to share.
Well, my story is,
unique to me, but not unique
to immigrants who understand what it'slike to grow up in an immigrant family.
So my parents, like I mentioned before,are Puerto Rican and Dominican,
and they moved to New York City,when they were in their teens separately.
(09:00):
They married later, onand I grew up in Bronx, New York.
My parents worked really, really hardas, small business owners.
They started a mechanic shop in the Bronx,with a loan from a family member.
Neither of my parentshad the benefit of going to college,
(09:21):
even though they were brilliantpeople and hard working.
And, they started their first service
station and named itDenise’s Service Station.
Oh, my GodFor their oldest daughter.
which is kind of funny and weird, but,
I grew up in a service stationalongside my parents.
(09:41):
My mom was the office manager accountant,
and my dad was the leadmechanic and fixer of all things.
He was self-taught,
and decided to pursue thatafter he returned from The Vietnam War.
Fast forward to
ten year old me.
My parents decided to moveto Orlando, Florida
(10:04):
in pursuit of a family-friendly place to raise their children.
So I'm one of three kids, the oldest,like I mentioned,
and they moved to Orlandobecause they visited Disney once
and they found thatit was very family-friendly.
And then clearly, family values live whereDisney is so they sold everything.
(10:25):
And we moved to Orlandoand my parents use that,
the resources from selling their homeand everything else
that they owned to start a new servicestation here in Orlando called Hi-Tech.
Tune Up.
Okay.
And, if you've been in the Orlando areafor a long time,
you'll be familiar with it.
It was on the cornerof Bennett and East Colonial.
(10:47):
But, I
grew up going to that service stationevery day after school.
My dad had to buy a, computerdiagnostic device to read
the error codes on these newfangled carsthat were now run by computers.
And I became his apprentice.
He needed me to translate thattechnical manual to him and his mechanics.
(11:09):
Nice.That's where my technology career started.
And, I had a natural aptitude for it.
It was really easy for me to understandthe manuals and the diagnostic
readings, and I was able to help translatethat for them.
from a technical perspectiveand that kind of
ability to translate technology
(11:31):
followed me throughout high schooland into college.
I started college at Valencia.
it was at the timeValencia Community College.
Yeah.Now it's Valencia State College.
and I went to Valenciabecause my parents couldn't
afford to send me to a four year university,
and they agreed to payfor the first two years of school for me,
(11:55):
because they understood
that education was incredibly important,but that I had to start at a state,
college.
And I thoughtI was going to become an attorney.
So I got a legal studies degree.
And when I graduated with
that legal studies degree,I got a full time job as a Paralegal.
And turns outI spent all my time as a paralegal, really
(12:17):
helping everybody else understandthe technology that we were using
in the law firm at that time,which was in the early 90s.
That led me to decide that
I needed to pursue technology as a careerand not become an attorney.
And then I went to UCF and got my degreein technology
of Management of Information Systems,which was new at the time.
(12:38):
It was state of the art,
and I was one of the few womento graduate with that program.
That’s a big deal,because we're going to take a little pause So-
there just because here you are, firstgen going to college, and then you're
also learning about technology,and you're also Latin and you're a woman.
So a lot of big milestonesbeing hit there.
(12:58):
Yeah.
So, as a woman in technology
whose landed or was able to work my way up
and become a Chief InformationOfficer, is pretty unique.
I've also been and I'm currently
the board chair of a national organizationthat serves technology leaders.
Very, very rare for a Latinato be able to do this.
(13:18):
I represent less than 2% of the workforce,in this regard.
But it-it came from a place of deepcuriosity
and passion for technologyand an ability to learn it quickly
and to translate it to other peoplewho didn't understand it.
That was the cornerstone of the waythat I worked.
And it's served me well in my career.
(13:40):
So let's fast forward to your own business
that you have, Tech & Thrive.
How did you decide to do that?
I mean, you know,you already had worked for other people,
but it's a big stepto go into business for yourself.
Yeah.
Well, I think that, when you see your parents
succeed in small businessas, entrepreneurs,
(14:02):
it plants a little seed in youthat-that's a way of life.
Even though my parents really, tried their best to make sure that I never
did that, that I actually sought securityand, a regular paycheck.
And they really wanted to make surethat I had a stable work place.
And I did that for 30years as a technology leader.
(14:24):
What I found is I decided to go back to,
get my Masters in leadershipwhen I was 45 years old.
Because I'm a lifelong learner
and I just love learningand I can't get enough of the classroom.
And that was when my life, allowed meto go back to school
because I've raised three-three kids.
I'm still raising one who's 12.
(14:47):
my thesis in that program
was (14:50):
“What are the barriers that hold women back in STEM careers?”
And at the time, we were experiencingthe pandemic
and I was living through being a CIO,
executive level team memberwhile transitioning a school
to virtual instruction literally overnightas a result of the pandemic.
(15:14):
I was experiencing what I was learningin my research myself
because I was a executivewith three kids at home
trying to complete collegeand go to school alongside
my husband and I, who are both executives,during the pandemic.
And I was not present for them,I couldn't be.
(15:36):
I actually could not help themwith anything that they had to do,
because I was responsiblefor transitioning a school
in a -in the pandemic,and that was my primary
focus during that time, during a timewhere my kids needed me most,
because the world was,
uncertain. Yeah.
And my job was to be-to helpmy organization transition.
(15:58):
And I was very committed to that.
I love that,
but it was like I was living the resultsof the survey - of all of the work
I was researching these barriersthat women face
as parents, as nurturers,as professionals,
are really, really heavyand they hold us back from progress
(16:20):
in STEM careers because STEMcareers are-were designed for men,
you know?
Well, originallyI really maybe that was the intention.
Yeah.
Yeah,they were designed to work for a society
that was created for men to go to work,not for women to go to work.
And we turn ourselves inside out in order
(16:42):
to work within those systems.
And while it's changed, women
still are not represented in technologyin significant ways.
We only represent 26%
of leadership in technology.
Women of Color, Latinos, Black Women,less than 3%.
(17:03):
We-we have a long way to go.Wow.
And because of this, I decided to leave
my very secure and safesix figure job to launch a company
that could change the needle on thatby serving organizations and clients
who want to liberate themselvesfrom what is termed today Burnout,
(17:25):
that technology creates.
And it creates that for so many reasons,
but that's what I do now.
I serve organizations and individuals,and changing that,
I think that's a - that's a big weight to carry, right?
Because we knowjust based on the statistics
that you shared, that it is-it is hard to do that.
(17:45):
And it does comewith somewhat of a sacrifice-s-somewhat.
But it's, it comes at,
I think an even greater cost to whatwomen do.
And I know we talked about this
before the show started,about how we are really hard on ourselves.
So the ability to transitionquickly is vital
(18:08):
to be that top 26% or that top,
where was it 3%?
Yeah.
For me,representing that less than 3% of Latinas
who made it to the C-suite, meansthat I'm made of something really strong.
Yeah, powerful.
And there's no reason I can't succeedin every single other place
(18:30):
that I want to-to experiment.
And if I'm going to take a risk,I'm going to bet on myself
and all of the women and people of colorwho I know have what it takes to succeed.
Yeah, that's an easy bet for me.
Yeah.
And I you know, many times when I workwith, students, I'm going to make sure
(18:50):
I have my microphone better positionedwhen I work with students.
of all colors, I explained to them.
So let me tell you how this hiring systemreally works,
they're going to pick every single man,every single color of man,
way above all of us.
And there's still a hierarchy there.
And then when it comes to women,you're still going to see, you know,
I'm white, so I'll get picked.
(19:12):
But they'll also pick Asian.
And then they're going to go to Hispanicand then they're going to be picking
the Black womenis how I've seen it play out.
And then I go “It's harder,
so you have to stand outway more than everybody else.
And let me be that ally for youthat can help you to stand out
because it's hard enough.”
(19:32):
But, you know, when you have other peoplethat are rooting for
you and making those introductionsand, it can be.
Yeah.
I love that you do that.So that's what I,
Yeah.
I'm, I'm-I’m an ally, a coach to individualswho are experiencing
a feeling of undervalue,y’know, they feel undervalued
in their organizationsor they feel underestimated.
(19:56):
I come in alongside themand try to create a strategic plan
that really helps them narrowin on what their strengths are,
how they serve, best,what their unique characteristics
are in their unique formulafor leadership.
And we get at the center of that and startcreating a strategic plan
so that they canact on what their goals are.
(20:19):
And I have great success in thatwith all of the clients
I've served in the last, two yearssince I launched Tech & Thrive.
I'm so happy to see that.
Like I said, we,you and I both know how hard that is.
And having, a coach that is there to help
cheer you on when you need to be cheered on and-
and then somebody
(20:39):
that will talk to you and say, “Hey, I'mgoing to tell you what you need to hear.”
You know, a direct communicatorlike yourself.
Very vital. Yeah, yeah.
People, well-um, families mean well.
And they'll tell youwhat you want to hear,
but you really need to have peoplethat are gonna be honest.
So I'm-I'm glad that's one of the maintenets of your company there.
So who is one of your thoughtleaders and why?
(21:02):
You know, I struggled with this question
when you asked itbecause two people came to mind.
You can mention both. Okay.
The two people that came to mindare Oprah Winfrey.
I admire her on a, many, many levels.
Mainly because of what she givesback to the world
as a result of her, fame and fortune.
(21:25):
The starting of schools for girlsthat are underrepresented in countries
that suffer from poverty, to me,is just like reaching a place in the world
where you can give back on that levelis something that means a lot to me.
And then also Brené Brown,
I love her research and her work
(21:45):
and how authentic she is about who she is,
how vulnerability playsa critical role in our development
as leaders, and creating workplaceswhere people can be vulnerable
and feel safe at the same timeis something that I care deeply about.
So those two women really inspire meand help me to,
(22:06):
kind of, they offer a beacon
of a little bit of a legacythat I would like to leave
a combination of those two,and then you throw in a little Jennifer Lopez
and you get Denice.
Oh that's funny.So that's like the three of them all mixed up.
And that's me.
You know that she's also an entrepreneurI mean you know all of these women are. Yes.
(22:27):
But Jennifer Lopez is somebody thatI think inspires a lot of Latin women.
Just because, you know,she grew up from the the Bronx.
You know, the her original first song. Yeah. Yeah.
And she's been able to transform herselfas she's been a woman that is aging.
Also,she's amazing with what you know, she
(22:49):
I don't know when she sleeps,but I'm sure she does.
But, you know,she is a really good example
of how you can have a lot of businesses.
You can have amazing people around you,
and be able to definitely give back,like what you mentioned.
Yeah. So from Winfrey and Brun-Brit- Yeah so,
so if I like when I pickthe three of them, it's because I,
(23:10):
I admire something about each of themand there's just a little bit
of what they bring to the world in methat I'm trying to, give back.
So I'm going to go and use this word.
I don't think you're trying my friend.
So if I get say “Here pick up a penciland try-you drop it on the ground.
So drop it on the ground.Now try and pick it up.”
(23:33):
You're not trying. You're picking it up.
Yes, I am picking itup. I'm not trying. I'm doing it.
That is right. So I'm going to make sure that you. Yes.
Thank you for thinking about that.
Yes, I am doing it.
Yeah. There's an option to not do itwhen we try.
But if you're doing itYeah-I am doing it.
That is right. There you go.
YeahThanks for that reminder.
Because well, I know,-I know the words that we use are important.
(23:56):
They arethey are, because before the show
started, we were - I was telling you,there's just and kind of.
And I go, “Ugh, those are diminishing words.
It means I have an option.”,and I see try as the same one.
And you gave me a lot of inspirationbefore the show started.
You were helping me to reframe.
So I'm just returning that also, you know,because we need each other.
(24:17):
Yes we do.
Yeah, we all absolutely do.
I think that they're amazing women.
I want to tell youthank you for sharing those.
So, let's talk about, power posing.
I know you have good stories.I haven't heard them. Oh, okay.
So in an articlethat was published in 2023, I actually saw
this on Gray's Anatomy.
That's where I originally,they talked about power posing
(24:39):
on there.Okay.
And they said, so I researched
“What is this power posingthat Gray's Anatomy is talking about?”
And they said it was researchthat was at Martin Luther King University.
Hale Wittenberg University, the University of Bamberg,
the-the Ohio State University,
they all published metaanalysis information that was looking at,
(25:01):
close to 130 experimentswith 10,000 participants.
And the objective was to find outwhether consciously,
people, womenare deciding to have a certain posture
that can influence a person'sconfidence, behavior and hormone levels.
So I don't know what your thoughts areon this study
if you practice power posing,but tell me more about it.
(25:24):
I, I find it fascinatingthat this is something you bring up here
because, power posingis something that I do utilize.
And I actually, and - an- encouragemy clients to use it as well.
I practice this, recently
I, as a board chair ofa national organization, I get to address,
(25:45):
you know, an audience of more than 500people annually at a conference.
And this year, just a few months ago,
I practiced my power pose
in front of the entire audiencein order to inspire
and to relate to the individualsin the audience
(26:05):
who may be presenting at the conferencefor the very first time.
and nervous, and giving them that advice from the stage
for them to use the Wonder Woman pose,
before they speak, in order
to change their presence,and to gain confidence.
(26:27):
It was well-received.
I didn't expect the feedbackfrom the audience as a result of it,
but throughout the entire
three days of the conference,people were power posing everywhere
at the start of all of their workshopsand breakout sessions.
So I started the hashtag,
#WonderWoman,with some of my posts on LinkedIn.
(26:49):
so I have experience with this.
I do agreewith the findings of the research.
and I feature a bookby Amy Cuddy called Presence that talks
about our- um - our presence, and she also talksabout some of that research,
about power posing in the mirroror however you need to do it.
(27:09):
So that's on my website if you want tovisit that blog about that book.
Oh, thanks for sharing that.
I think the funniest thingthat you mentioned
is that you saw people at the conferencedoing it. Yeah.
And I went, you know what?
It should have put something out therethat said #ICanThrive.
#PowerPose, #WonderWoman.
Yeah.
Next time you do that. Yep.
(27:30):
And then you'll be able to see the power.Yeah.
of the power. Yes. You're right, you're right.
I need to be,leverage those marketing chops,
better.Yeah.
The first one is our learning opportunity.
From here on out, you're going to take itout, make it bigger.
I know, I'm so confident in you
So, what would you want to beremembered for in your life?
(27:53):
You know,
I think this is such a great question.
And when I was going throughthe certification program, to become,
a coach, there was like, 300 days
of, work for 300 consecutive days.
You go through this teaching,and one of the things that that
certification asked me to do was to, like,write my own eulogy.
(28:16):
Oh, wow.
Was that hard?
It was difficult. It was difficult.
And, this question about, you know,what do you want to leave
as a legacy in the world, is very similarto that writing your own eulogy exercise.
I'm pretty clear that I want
people to saythat they saw a deep caring for people
(28:38):
and deep purpose in leaving the worldbetter
for anyone that I have access to.
Right?
So that's what I want to leave inthe world, is I just want to leave it
better than I found it,in my small sphere of influence.
And at this age, I'm 50.
(29:00):
I celebrated my 50th year this year.
I have a deep -
connection to-to-to what I can influence.
And I know what it isand I'm going to leave an impact there.
I'm going to make a differencefor other people who look like
me, for People Of Colorin Technology, for,
(29:23):
our allies and all of these peoplethat I know are following me on LinkedIn,
I want to make a difference for themand modeling that for my children
is what deeply matters for me.
Any of your children female? Yes.
I have, three - three children.
(29:43):
my oldest is 23, a boy,my middle child is, a daughter.
She's 20 and my youngest is 12. So,
Male or female? I-he's male.
Okay.So two boys and a girl.
Okay.
And two out of three are in technologyso far,
(30:04):
I don't know,I kind of think that everybody's in tech.
Not maybe as the career,but you can't escape it. Yeah.
Yeah, but it’s a career path.No you can’t, so-so-so,
Yeah.
So, I have three kidsand I aim to inspire them.
Oh, I'm sure you do.
I know the funny thingis, when I ask them, like,
“When you think about your mom, ”you know,“What are the things that come up?”
(30:25):
and they always say stuff like,“You get things done, Mom.”
And I'm like, “Okay, that's okay.”
Yeah.That's something.
Yeah, it is, it is.Going back to that deliberate again.
I think that, as-as people,
we can underestimate that ripple effectthat can happen.
I know that you are touchinga lot of lives every time.
(30:49):
we sell a book, anytimeyou're on a podcast,
anytime that you sharesomething on social,
it's always about, you know, meetinglots of people.
You're a heavy networker also,
I'm quite confident
because that's how I met you
is at a Women in Tech event.
When you were on a panel and I went,“I know I've seen you around.” and I've,
(31:11):
you know, paid attention to you,
but on that panel discussion, you - you made a big impact anyway.
Okay. I got to have her on my podcast.
I just wanted to have you because I went, “She's really smart.”Ah thanks.
Yeah. So.
so you never realize that ripple effectof how
that one, one thing that ‘s - you do,
whatever that one thing ishow that can be touching somebody else.
(31:34):
Yeah, I really appreciate that. Yeah.
I'm learning um, that, the more I share,
the more I connect.
And, I think that's true for all of us.
Yes I would, I would agree with you.
So we're going to take a momentto acknowledge
our sponsor Cat 5 Studios,and we will be right back.
(31:56):
The Intern Whisperer is brought to youby Cat 5 Studios, who help you
create games and videos
for your training and marketing needsthat are out of this world.
Visit Cat 5 Studiosfor more information to learn
how Cat 5 Studioscan help your business.
Thank you, Cat 5 Studios.
So listeners, we are back to the show.
Our guestas a reminder is Denise Musselwhite.
We're going to be talking aboutwhat the future in 2030 will look like.
(32:19):
And it's hard to believe, you know,it seems like, “Oh, that's not that far.”
It's 2024.
So that's six years and 2030 doesn't countbecause that's the year
we're talking about.
And this year we're halfway through it.
So that doesn't necessarily count either.
So it's basically four years from nowwhen you talk about this.
Denise, what do you thinkthe world will look like in 2030
(32:40):
as it relates to your industryand potential jobs?
Okay.
So, 2030 is one of those yearsthat I kind of pay attention to
because it's the year
that my youngest son, Nicholas, isgoing to be graduating from high school.
So it's - it's an important year in my mind.
From a job perspective, I, I really see
(33:03):
an absolute requirementthat everyone be fluent
in generative AI,
as though they're takinga foreign language,
like it's something that everyone is goingto just really need to be fluent about
and need to know how to implement in ways
that support their ownneeds in the workplace.
(33:23):
So navigating that and implementing itand integrating it into our lives
and into our work in a way that feels
fluid is absolutely essential.
generate - generativeAI is the new language of work.
I agree. Right?
So I see that as absolutely importantto everyone listening here
(33:47):
is, if you haven't already tried it,you're already behind.
You know, I saw an articlethat came out two days ago,
and I was reading the headline on it,
and I pulled it upbecause I want to go back and read it
and it said that if if you do not have Gen AI
on your resume, you're going to belosing all kinds of opportunities.
And I totally agree with everythingyou said, and even more because our world,
(34:12):
our resumes, should be reflectingwhat is the impact that we have.
We measure everything in this worldso it needs to be seen on a resume. Yep.
And the other part of it, and I think thatthis is even more important
than us being fluent and fluidin the use of artificial intelligence
is, the more of us that understand
(34:34):
how to speak withand program artificial intelligence,
the more that we can
address the serious ethical concerns
that Artificial Intelligence
create for our society.
Okay, say that last part for me, again,I want to get it exactly in my notes here.
(34:56):
Just the last part, because you saidthe more that we, can understand Okay.
how to speak and createAI and our work can
help us solve the ethical concerns
that AI creates in our worldand in our society.
So everyone needs
to be on the hook for holding
(35:18):
Artificial Intelligence accountable.Right.
To the morals and the valuesthat our society holds dear.
For me, that manifests most specifically
in the way that it may harm children,
and people who are alreadyunderrepresented in our society,
(35:39):
And also the elderly.and the elderly as well.
Yeah.
The people that don't keep upwith them. So -
Yeah.
So I,you know, like with any amazing progress
that we make in the worldthat technology brings, it also
promotes bad actorsto take advantage of it.
And I have a deep concernthat we don't have enough good actors
(36:03):
doing the work to keep up with whatthe bad actors are doing. I agree.
So when it first launched about a yearand a half ago, right,
it was the end of 2022when we heard about it.
It was, something everybody'sscrambling to figure out,
kind of like when Covid happenedand understand it.
And we still are.
I mean, there's a lotthat's out there, all kinds of workshops
(36:25):
and training and everything.
So if we're taking advantage of that
and you - to your point, you mentioned,you know, underrepresented individuals
that may not have access to technologyeven in the US, there's plenty of people.
We don't even have to go out of that - out of our country to find that there's
elderly who, just by virtue of the nature,they go, “Oh, I'm retired.”
(36:48):
They give up on trying.
And then there's kids and they justtouch everything and they don't read.
Right?
So when you think about those three groupsof people,
it's going to be vitalto have individuals that are going, “Okay.
We - we have to put checksand balances in place.
Do you know when it first came outI was going, well,
what are the organizations that are outthere that are about ethics and AI?
(37:10):
Because that's what I want to be on.
Do you know of any?
Because I research it,it's always updating.
I can't say I have one particular onethat is a leader yet that I know of,
but I don't know if you know.
And you know it’s ok if you don’t.I had this conversation
on LinkedIn recently and I was wonderingexactly the same thing.
And I put out a questionon what - what private equity
(37:36):
is investing in
AI for good or ethical use - the - use of AI?
Because we hear all kinds of reportsabout all of the private
Yeah.equity money that is going into AI development, but
Wher - how much of that moneyis going into the ethical uses of AI?
Yeah.and, you know, my gut tells me, and if history serves: not much
(37:58):
because, we,
as a societylook for profit over people in many ways
and start to try to answer the
unintentional outcomes
that come from new technologiesafter the fact.
We don't program - program thatinto the initial uses of the technology.
(38:18):
And I'm doing a call of action herethat we must create,
ethical guidelines.
Yeah.
When we create the technologyalongside of the technology.
I agree with you.
Yeah, I agree
now I know that I, I would like to beone of those people that does it.
So when we - when I'm going to givethis is something that you and I,
(38:41):
we can talk about our fear.
So maybe we should look at - startby doing this kind of small.
What are the groups that are out there
and see if there's somethingthat we can already join.
Maybe it's something that's alreadyan organization like, you know,
Women In Tech and go, is there anythingis there a committee on that?
Like maybewe could be starting that committee?
(39:01):
So I wish I knew the answer to that.
But that’s ok, it’s our challenge.Maybe somebody listening to this or challenge.
Yeah, we figure this out.We have to figure it out.
Yeah. Yeah.
And somebody out there, they - they can be incentivized by us
and reach out to us and say, hey,I want to be a part of that. Yeah.
Or they want us to join their thing.
Let's, let's just use this opportunityso that we can be
the ones that are helpingthat conversation to happen. Yeah.
(39:23):
And how can we use AI to help uscraft those ethics?
Yeah, well,maybe it's going to tell us the truth.
Yeah, I don't know, I don't know.
Yeah.
I'm not so sure because it - it is just this vast
amount of every Google searchthat we've ever done in the whole world.
So that's good.
And the not so good stuff that peopleput out there and then, you know,
it'll give us the answers to that,but it won't be comprehensive.
(39:46):
So it does require humans, to dominate.
I'm just going to say, in a good way. Yeah.
All right.
So you touched on a lotabout the things that were about positive
and negative impactthat Gen AI can have on the work world.
Is there anything elsethat you want to add to that?
Um, you know, I think wewe touched on a lot. We - we touched on a lot.
(40:07):
You know, I do, I listen
I love Michelle,to your episode with Michelle Moore, who is - I really adore her,
and she is right on pointwhen she talks about,
disconnecting from technology
and the digital dopamine hitsthat we are all addicted to.
I do think that by 2030 there is goingto be, it's already starting.
(40:30):
We see it here in Florida,
absolutely.
And, there was a recent, surgeongeneral, made a - a warning
about the impact of digitalsocial media on children.
I do think that there's going to bea lot of energy in this place
where we're all trying to disconnectfrom our digital addiction,
(40:52):
myself included.
I think so too, because if the first thing
we rely on technology to wake us up inthe morning, we don't use clocks anymore.
We use our phone, we rely on technologies - some people do - to use it
with, programs that are out there.
Web apps aboutlet us help you follow sleep
and then it's measuringeverything we do in our sleep.
(41:13):
We rely on technology to communicateand all of these things.
So disconnecting, super importantbecause that's
going to allow us to be more creative.
Well, I'm,I'm super curious about how much, funding
is going towards that type of, work.
Because when you followthat trail of private equity
(41:34):
and investments,you can see some of what the future holds.
And I just don'tknow if there's a lot there.
I'm sure there is.
Do you ever watch - have you ever seenthis show called Black Mirror?
It is dark.I have, it was super creepy.
I couldn't make it pastthe first two episodes.
It was too dark.
It is. I went to episode five.
(41:55):
There was one. An episode.
I mean, season four, one that I couldn'twatch.
And I went, okay, I got to take a break.
And then, five came outand I watched one of them.
But I think that there's a lot of, cautionary tales.
Oh, absolutely.
That we we should be aware of. Yeah.
Because if it's there,it's already in the world.
And if it's already been seen on thatshow, you can count that Yeah.
(42:18):
free publicitythat's promoted that kind of, um,
Scary mindset.
Yeah.
And then there is something elsethat's on Netflix that I can recommend
and it's more positive.
It's called The Future Of. That onebalances out dark with Black Mirror. Oh, more optimistic.
Yeah. Yeah yeah.
It talks a lot about how AR, VR, robots,everything
(42:41):
that you saw on Black Mirror, but you knowhow it's being used and - and pause.
Oh I, I'm going to check that one.
Now look for that one.
Yeah, I tend to lean towardswatching more optimistic,
futuristic programs.
I'm looking for thatbecause there's so much of the opposite
freely availablethat I need to bring in the optimism.
(43:02):
Yeah.
Just so we stay somewhat balanced, right?
Go - okay.Yeah.
There are good people in the world. Yes.
I get what you're saying here.
So something else that, I had found was, a gentleman named Geoffrey Hinton.
He's called “The Godfather of AI”.
He was on 60 Minutesback on October 8th of last year,
(43:24):
and he was giving cautions againto everybody.
He said,“I really wish I had never created it.”
He had left Googlewhen he used to work for Google.
I believe it was IBM also.
And there was this - in the 60s,this bunch of, whole bunch
of people, scientistmen that had created a lot of things
that we’re experiencingnow, technology wise.
(43:48):
Anyway, one of the waysin which these systems might escape
control is by writing their own computercode to modify themselves, Hinton said.
And that's somethingwe need to seriously worry about.
I find itinteresting that a person that created it
now has gone to a 180 and is saying,“You know what?
We - we really need to pay attention.”
(44:10):
And I wonder how many people, scientistsin the world
that create things, sit here and go, “Gosh,was that a good thing?”
Because the question that I askedmyself is
usually just because we can use AI,just because we can have robots,
does that mean we should do this?
Because there are people,
(44:31):
when you talk about underrepresented, it'snot just color.
It's about,you know, economic wages that they make.
There are peoplethat don't have the mental
and emotional capacityto have jobs that can be programmers.
So when we look at all of these jobsthat are supposedly being created
in the world, we don't accountfor the ones that don't fit that checkbox.
(44:54):
And I go, just because we can doesn'tmean we should.
There is a McDonald'sthat is here in Orlando that does not have
any humans in it, and you just go inand you interact with the systems.
That's a little disappointingbecause everybody's first job,
many people, not everybody,
their first job might have been saying,“Hi, welcome to McDonald's.”
(45:14):
It could be “Hi, welcome to Walmart.”
The individual that's,you know, elderly or uh, a disabled veteran.
These are the people that I go,
“But where are they going to bethe ones that don't want it?”
Yeah, I, I hear you there.
I have a more optimistic outlook about it
because when these technologies,
(45:36):
augment the way that people work,I do believe that it creates
new opportunities for peopleto do what computers can't.
And that is interrelate on a human level.
So I do think that there is going to be
an increase in the need for peopleto have emotional intelligence
(45:58):
and soft skillsin a way that doesn't exist today,
because computers just can't interact,
interrelate on the human levelthe way that humans can.
So when I think about what you just said,
I go back to
how are we within our educational systems,
(46:21):
encouraging interpersonal connectivity
outside of our digital lives
so that everyone graduates with a high EQ,
right?
That high EQ is absolutely necessary
to our developing world.
(46:41):
And when we take our eye off of the highEQ ball,
we lose a lot of what humanity is.
So how are our educational systems
and universities really, really programing
emotional intelligence into our curricula?
(47:03):
On a very basic level.
So I'm going to let you know,I go to business advisory meetings.
And this is something that they talk aboutall the time.
And many times,
it's a frustration pointbecause educators are already overworked
and they only see, you know, peoplefor X amount of hours.
(47:26):
Whether you're in the public classroomor if you're in higher ed,
it's not just somethingthat's for people in education.
It is something that we as a societyneed to realize
we all have a responsibility for.
So it should happen in the workplace.
It should happen in your schools,it should be happening in your families.
(47:47):
And for those that don't have families,it needs to be in the nonprofit groups
that help support people that are not,you know, seen and heard.
They're off the radar.
It needs to be a solutionthat is globally, you know, embraced.
Yeah.
And I think that ARand VR have some answers for us
(48:09):
in creating environments that help,
individualsincrease their emotional intelligence.
And that may sound counterbecause it's a technology rich space,
the AR, VR, but it also creates,emotional connections
and people can test safelyhow to explore, emotional intelligence
(48:29):
in ways that feel safer to themthan doing it with a human.
So I do think that technology can help usaccelerate progress here.
And,
you know,that emotional intelligence piece,
I think is really, really critical
as we look ahead to 2030, 2040and into our future.
(48:51):
I would agree with you.And I, I think we just have
to figure out what to removeso that we make space for that.
What's no longer relevant,
and make spacefor that EQ curricula and teaching.
I think that we're going to see thingschanging in the world quite a bit.
So there is a forecast, in the jobs
(49:13):
for the future that says that individualshaving their own coach,
individuals having more of a customizedlearning approach is going to happen.
So teacher positions for teachersis supposed
to increase, the demand for having coacheswill increase.
Having it be something that's affordableis going to be very needed, obviously.
(49:34):
So the next question that leads itselfinto what ethical dilemmas
do you foresee? Now you've touched on quite a few others.
Honestly.Yeah.
But you know, there's I raised thisas the next one, you know, funding,
being able to have access to moneythat allows you to have that.
That's a lot of timeswhy people have apps,
that you can download on your phone.
Most, even most homeless people.
(49:56):
I've seen they have a phone.
Maybe not with the same plansthat we enjoy, but, Yeah.
having that be something that allows themto interact with humans because,
we'll use the homelessas the ethical dilemma.
How do we help them?
Those that want
to be helped, be able to be seen
(50:19):
and heard and to be able to breakthat poverty issue.
I knowwe're not going to cover this in the show.
I know we’re not,but it's just like one of the questions
that would be askedwhether it's homelessness, people
without jobs,it can be individuals with disabilities.
I mean, pick a group, right?
Yeah.
You know, I think mental healthand wellness is the place you start.
Yeah. There from an investment perspective.
(50:42):
Yeah. Right.
That you have to be well within yourselfbefore you can actually serve,
your society.
and I think that health, mental healthand wellness is a, one of
our greatest calls to action and the placewhere we need to see investments.
I agree, the library,just so you know, the,
Orlando Public Library, the Melrose Center is a technology center.
(51:06):
If you haven't been there,you absolutely should go.
They did a game jam that was last year,and they posed social issues
as one of the game based solutionsthey wanted to create.
How could they create,something that could be a game
that would allow the homelessor those that were without jobs
(51:27):
to be able to find jobs,to be able to access resources
that are available for all of them.
Having it as a free app
that was bringing a solutionto more people,
not necessarilygoing to eradicate it for everything,
but just being able to bring resourcesmore, make it more available to people.
(51:49):
I found that, an interesting thingthere was about,
I think there was a little over50 people that signed up,
and there was about 10 to 12 solutionsthat came out of it.
And those were all possibleto be funded to the point that you -
Right. Wow, wow. That's awesome.
Yeah.
So sometimes it'sjust this one idea that somebody has
(52:12):
that can be something that makes a ripplethroughout the world.
Yeah.
And changes lives for the better.
Yeah, yeah.
So, I think that, that's all relevant.
And, you know, it'sdefinitely part of that ethical dilemma.
So it's hard to believewe're at the end of the show.
And it reallyhas been pretty close to an hour.
(52:33):
what is the best mentoring advicethat you want to share
with our listeners about the future?
The advice that
I would share aboutthe future is in order for you
to accelerate your own growthand development, you really need
to understand who you are as a leaderand as an individual.
(52:55):
Without that understanding,you're waiting for supervisors, mentors,
and other systems
to define who you areand when someone else defines who you are
and it doesn't matchwith who you really are, there's friction
and a lack of connection to your work.
(53:15):
So the advice I haveis to really understand what you need
and to establish a strategy,a plan of action,
so that you can fill in the gapsand move towards your strengths.
I created a thrive quiz
that provides a way for technologyprofessionals
(53:37):
to really measure the areasin which they're thriving,
where they might be just surviving,and then for those areas
that you might be seekingand it gives you a score,
and then it also gives yousome tips and tricks and strategies
so that you can move your needlein a direction that works for you.
(53:57):
So I encourageeveryone to use that as a tool.
And to really get honestabout what they need uniquely
to succeed, because everybodyhas a different recipe for success.
That's true. Is this free? Yes.
The thrive quiz is free on my website
and anyoneand everyone is welcome to take it.
Very nice.
(54:17):
How many do you know,how many people have taken it.
Oh my gosh.
I think I launched it
about a year ago and it'swell over a thousand, gathering data
about it, and it's helping meto design new content, and new materials.
So based on the data that I learned fromthe quiz, I'm also tweaking my thrive
(54:38):
operating system, which is a frameworkI created to serve my clients
so that I'm providing more contentin areas that are,
commonly ranked low.
And right now,self-care is the one that's winning.
Oh, self-care is winning, okay?
Self-care is winning as the placewhere people need more support.
(55:01):
Well, what is self-caremean to you or to your customers?
Self-care means, ensuring that you have all of the energy
that you need in orderto serve in the other areas of your life
your work, your family,and also in service to others.
So what is itthat each individual needs in order
(55:22):
to have a full bucket of energy beforethey can give energy to other people?
It's kind of like a bank account.
You can't buy new thingsif you have a negative balance.
So it sounds a lotlike Maslow's theory. Yes.
Yeah. Of of needs.
You have to be able to meetthose five needs to reach.
It's a hierarchy of self-awareness. Yep.
(55:43):
I love it.Yeah. Exactly right.
Love it. Okay.
So how can our listeners contact youyour website your
we have your website or your LinkedInand also the assessment tool.
We're going to be putting all of that
out there on this podcastin the show description.
Is there anything else? Nope.
Why don't you tell us though?That's the best.
What is your websitejust well Oh the website, is
(56:07):
www.techandthrive.com
You can go there and learn all about me.
You can follow me on LinkedIn.
That's where I am at.
I encourage you to reach out in an emailor DM me.
I respond to everyone personally
and I'm looking forwardto learning more about you.
Like I said, I'm super curiousand I am always
(56:30):
at the ready to leverage my network and,to support someone
who is looking to make a transitionor looking to break into technology.
So I'm just going to give somethinga heads up to our listeners.
So when you type tech, it's tech,the word and a n d thrive t h r i v e,
dot com don't be surprisedif it forwards to DeniseMusselwhite.com.
(56:54):
That's normal. Yep.
She's testing some stuff out here.
That's going to beI don't know if you want to know that. No I’m not gonna say anything yet.
Yeah.
But there's a reason.
So don't get concerned about itif you see that happen.
It's what's supposed to happen right now.
Yeah okay.
So I want to thank you so muchfor being a guest on this show.
And this has been delightful.
I feel like I've kind of met - not kind of,
(57:16):
I feel like I've met
one of my my, I don't know,there was this movie called Multiplicity.
Yeah.Oh.
I don't know if you saw that onewith Kevin - Keat. Yes.
Michael Keaton,I remember that movie.
Yeah.
You know, where there’s like these,these versions of himself.
But I feel like I've kind of met my twin,one of my twins.
Kindred spiritsthat is for sure. Kindred spirits.
(57:36):
Anyway.And it's always good.
Thank you for having me on this podcast.
You're amazing.
And I could not have predictedwhere we ended up in this conversation,
so that was really fun.
Yeah, it's always one of those, surprisesthat ends up happening for sure.
That is for sure.
Anyway,
I want to just encourage our listeners,be sure when you listen to this episode,
reach out to to Denise directlyso that you can learn more about yourself
(58:00):
and then mention the showso she knows where you came from.
That would be very, very kind.
And, we we thank you very much, Denise.
You're welcome.
Thank you to our sponsor, Cat5 Studios.
And thank you to our video productionand editing team, Erica Ulman,
Gavin Staley, and Einjar Fabrega.
Music is by Sophie Lloyd.
(58:21):
Visit Employers For Change at WW,
www.e4c.tech to learn how you can recruit,assess and improve employee
learning and company culturethrough DEI skills hiring and learning
Mention you listen to the showwhen you join and become a member,
and you may win a chance to be a gueston The Intern Whisperer podcast.
(58:42):
Subscribe today and supportThe Intern Whisperer by sharing
our show, leaving us comments and reviews.
You can find The InternWhisperer podcast on Employers 4 Change
You Tube channel,or streaming from your favorite podcast channel.
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