August 20, 2024 • 57 mins
Disclaimer: We experienced audio problems that were unfortunately not able to be corrected. We hope you will find Juan’s interview interesting and leave us comments about his responses.
This guest epitomizes the definition of a Renaissance Man. Juan Santos is the Senior Vice President of Brand Experience and Innovation with Tavistock. He has 20+ years of creating magical experiences and been involved in award-winning, transformational work such as the first worldwide webcast for Earth Day, Coca-Cola’s loyalty program My Coke Rewards.
Mattel’s shift from toys to play through the creation of BarbieGirls.com and implementing the largest autonomous public transit network in Lake Nona.
When asked about his five words that he said describe him, he replied with Ductile, Whimsical, Doer, Servant, Creator. If you do not know what ductile means, please listen to the show. No hints in the show notes. I challenge you to use it in a sentence or two also to expand other people’s vocabularies.
There are 3 interesting take aways from this interview.
- What virtual reality was like in the early 2000’s
- How he landed a job with Mattel and the skills he needed at that time.
- How does projection mapping play into the Future of Work and cool tech?
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:11):
Here we are.
So, hi everyone.
My name is IsabellaJohnston and I am the host of
The Intern Whisperer Podcast
It is brought to you by Employers4 Change.
And today's guest is Juan Santos.
He is the senior VP of Brand Experienceand Innovation here at Tavistock.
We are recording in Tavistock.
He has 20 years of experiencecreating magic,
(00:33):
and he has been involved in awardwinning transformational work
such as the first worldwidewebcast of Earth Day,
Coca-Cola's loyalty programlike Coke Rewards.
Just so you know, that's pretty cool.
This one, I think, is even better.
Mattel's shift from toys to playthrough the creation of BarbieGirls.com,
(00:53):
and implementation of the largestautonomous public transit network in Lake Nona.
And we are in the heart of everythingthat is technology.
So Juan, I always kick off the showand I ask my guests to describe themselves
using five words.
As you know, we went over those words,so no surprises here. Yep.
This one, you taught me a new word.
(01:14):
Ductile.
What is that?
It's like a - like a version of resilient.
Being ductileis like being a version of resilient.
It actually means that it can changeshape, it can adapt. Ah.
So I think that - I think that the.
That's the one
good superpower.
that I would like to have, yeah to be able to be,A shapeshifter.
(01:35):
not stuck in one ideaand be able to change ideas quickly.
Yeah, that is a really good sup-superpower, I agree.
Whimsical.
Yeah, I think the ability to,I think the ability to be amazed
is, is important.
I mean, I think, without being - withoutbeing able to be a little bit
(01:56):
in that suspension of disbelief momentand it will, be - I don't know.
You see something interesting fireworks.
Or you watch a rocket launch,which we do all the time here.
and yeah.
We're doing 102 rockets a year,so that's almost a week.
So, I mean, it shouldn't be something thatdoes not - that is not at all inspiring.
(02:17):
And I think that ability of like,being in that whimsical space is,
I think, importantfor us to be able to come up with ideas.
You must see it as an adult.
I work with three year olds in my church,and I love working with it
because they get to play andI get to see things through their eyes.
You're seeing it throughan adult’s eyes, but you also think Yeah.
that you have that, that awe comesfrom, like, ‘Holy cow’, when you were a kid.
(02:41):
I say whimsical, but I, you know, I thinkin reality it would have been like,childlike.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, maybe. Yeah, yeah.
Because, you know,the people that think up these ideas that.
‘Well, where did that come from?’
So you picked Doer, why Doer?
You know, one of the,
I've always been in,in some sort of intersection of,
(03:04):
like, a creative fieldwhere you have to come up with ideas.
But ideas only countif you're able to build them right in there.
So I always say when people havethose brainstorming sessions and people
do like Post-its with their bright ideasand the little dots on the Post-its,
I feel really badabout the great ideas of the Post-its.
I mean,I think we should have like a memorial or,
(03:24):
for like the best ideas in the world.
And there's probably planet saving ideas.
that are left in a Post-it notesomewhere in a brainstorming session. Yeah.
So I think the - the ability for us to movefrom not just thinking
of something to be able to execute,even if it's not 100% of it,
but being able to put it into actionwould actually make a difference.
(03:46):
You know, Idon't know where the exact quote is, but,
you know, that creativity is, you know, 1%
or 5% inspiration, 95% perspiration.
Yes, you’re paraphrasing it for sure.
And I agree with you.
Yeah, because you can have all of thesegreat ideas.
But if they don't launch, you know, try.
This is where the word try is appropriate.
(04:07):
You have to give it a shot.
Yeah.Yeah.
Um, Servant why did you pick that one?
Well, I think the - the idea here is that,um, you know, we have to be in,
in, we have to be, call it - cognizantof what others - what others need.
Right.
And that doesn't mean thatyou don't have necessarily, an objective.
(04:28):
I mean, you may have an objective,but if you're able to fulfill a need
for someone else,
maybe that gives you,
you know, gets you closer to your own goal.
Right it's not necessarily selfless,although, you know, you love to,
you know, aspire to be that, but um, but,you know, if you're able
to be cognizant of other people's needs,
then you have a better chanceof being successful in creating
(04:52):
things that people actually end up using.It’s pretty close to being
Top of the Maslow's theory. Right?
You know, when you're aware of othersand their needs. Yep.
So I agree,I like servant leadership a lot.
It's one of the main leadership modelsI studied when I was in my PhD program,
and I think that's the only way
you can movemountains is being a servant leader.
(05:13):
Creator, I know this is a wordthat you touched on earlier.
Creator and Doer. Yeah.
I think that it would be difficult for me
not to write somethingthat has creative or creator,
because that's most of what I- most of what I do,
It means slightly differentthan during the sense
(05:34):
that you are, in some cases, walking a new path.
So I think if you take the doer and you,you put some innovation on it,
and maybe what you're creating is not,
something that has been,that has happened before.
Maybe you are the originator or the innovator of an idea. Yeah.
Yeah,
(05:54):
it is magical about being that personthat's a creator.
And in this space you're surrounded by,you know, Yeah exactly,
I mean, it's,I'm thankfully one of many.
Yeah, and you know,and you don't ever feel alone
and everybody will sit here and go,‘Oh, it's okay to fail.’ right? Because, Yep.
you know, in the rest of the worldwe're taught ‘No failures, bad.’
But inside of a creative space, failureis actually pushing the boundaries.
(06:19):
And that'swhere the search for the ductile comes in.
And it's like, okay, how do we - how do we work around it?
Or how can we, you know, learn from itor how do we actually use it? Yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
How do you go up over, around, throughwhatever you have to do to get it to down.
So where did you get started?
What is your personal storythat you want to share with our listeners
(06:41):
and our viewers, viewers?
The show is also on YouTubeas well as on, audio channels.
So where did you go to school?Okay.
So I,
I went - I went around school a circuitous way.
So I, I started going to engineeringschool in Colombia, where I'm from.
So I doubled.
I was doublemajoring in engineering and industrial
(07:04):
engineering and economic science, and,I didn't finish.
I well, I was in my,
like, seven semesters,so three and a half years in
what would have been a six year programbecause I was doing the double major and,
I actually had the opportunity to work,
(07:25):
that was completely,I wasn't looking for it.
So I on the side, when I was in school,I worked for an ad agency as a tech guy.
Not as a creative guy,but as a tech guy. Yeah.
And for reasons that are quite complex.
the guy that was going to be the,for sure
president of Colombiaat that time, they got assassinated.
(07:49):
It's happened in Columbia history.Oh wow.
Except actually, less in the US.
Since then, we've had two.
but, you know, if you
he died and then his family saidthat the only person they trusted
to carry the mantle for this candidatewho was very annoyed he expressed himself was this
junior senator who was in his late 30sand he became president of Colombia.
(08:13):
And that's where you know,how incredibly young. That’s very young.
And he was our client in, in our agency.
Well, so, you know,we have this side gig of having, Wow.
junior senatorand then the - then we need the people.
We needed people to run the country.
So suddenly, everyone that was workingwith him was incredibly young.
(08:34):
The media called it,his cabinet was called “The Kindergarten”
because it was like a bunch of 20 yearolds, you know, Yeah.
and I ended up working in,communications during y’know,
So I had the chance of actuallydoing the First Amendment process
for the, for the Colombia Constitution.
And then we had the opportunityto work on a few other kinda
(08:57):
important things for the government.Right.
So I, I ended up
and, you know, I stopped going to school,I was working on this. Yeah.
And then, um,Tell me, was he reelected?
Did anything happen?
Actually,one of the things that changed in that,
that we did the amendment forwas to not allow reelection.
So he got reinstated later on.
Five year program.Oh, ok.
(09:19):
Sounds like he was dynamic.
And I think it was he was a good, it was a good shift for the country.
And, but the,
you know, at the end of it,I have had been doing
something completely different,
in a way that was very fulfilling.
So I, in talkingwith, with the guy that I work for,
(09:41):
they are like my mentor in that area.
He's like, ‘Look,
we - there were, you know, there were someopportunities to keep working
in, like
institutions that have to dowith government communications.’
Or he said, ‘Look, but you're like,you're a super young, you should just,
you know, go live in Paris,go live in Tokyo, go live in New York,
(10:04):
in, you know, get, get something differentand then come back.’
And that's what I did.
I actually moved to New York Cityand I went to art school.
So I went to a schoolcalled the School of Visual Arts
and um, and I find, find out-Is that, like graphic design?
Yeah.
Yeah, it was a fine arts, Fine Arts with graphic design.
Uh-huh.Yeah.
So you stumbled into Game Development too?
(10:27):
I think I rememberin a conversation that we had.
How did you do that?
So, you know, at the end, I ended up withsomething that at that time was unique.
It's actually significantly more commonnow, which is I had a very small technical
training with a very strong art training.
So when I came back to Colombia,I started a communications company,
(10:49):
and a lot of what we were doingwere Interactive Communications.
So things that happened in screens.
So originally we did - what we did CD-ROMs,then we did websites.
I know we did, kiosks, games.
You know, it was great.
I mean, because not many people,not many companies had that in those days. No.
(11:10):
And we had the chanceto work, for example, in the,
the first of guidance system for Epcot,which was, like touchscreens
that were called Genie.They were sponsored by GE.
it was like a simple touch screen directory,but that had to be done.
So I had a chanceto be in that cutting edge.
And then, you know, as, as technologybecame more interesting and as,
(11:33):
you know, projects became biggerand - and people and brands were devoting more
and more resources to doingbetter engagement things with people.
We ended up doing large multiplayergames, for companies
like Coca-Cola, like,like Turner and, and Mattel.
And then we builta whole practice out of doing
(11:54):
environments wherepeople could collaborate with each other,
could create, content.
And then or they could engagewith people all over the world. Yeah.
And this was,
of course, before we had large scalesocial platforms and Facebook existed.
But aside from that,there was no Instagram or TikTok.
Yeah, none of these -Yeah, none of these things existed.
So yeah, that's - that's how I ended up there.
(12:16):
And that company got acquired,and got acquired, and got acquired.
and I ended up working for a very largepublicly traded,
you know, marketingcommunications firm, for a long time.
And then, ended up,
coming here to Lake Nona afterwards.Wow, that’s -
So that is very exciting.
Everything that you've been doing,
because it was, especially the thingswith Mattel.
(12:39):
I'm curious if you think workingwith those types of products,
it encourages people to be more playfulin their approach to work.
And maybe it's not quiteas structured, but it's more,
I don't know.
Yeah.
Well, the work itself is very complex.
I mean, required,Yeah.
(12:59):
very like - very strong project management.
very strong. We created for Mattel.
We ended up creating thousands of piecesof virtual clothing
because one of the thingsthat you could do in the - in Barbie Girls,
which was a virtual world, isyou had this almost bottomless,
chest of clothesand wigs, hairdos, and accessories and, Right.
(13:23):
you know, dress up and, creating your avatarin a way that was unique.
Yeah.
Was - was a portion of the,you know, the experience.
You could also watch movies together.
You could create musicand play it for each other.
But the, the, one of the main, playtypes was dress up.
Yeah. So we ended up creating thousands.
And then you had to make surethat there were things that,
(13:45):
you know, the characters that are inspiredby Mattel would wear,
and also that you were not, you know,copying things that already existed.
You know, so it was a veryRight?
delicate dance,Delicate dance.
Not only that,but it was ultra structured.
So even though it was very creative,you know, it was,
we need another different kind of hairand we have 11.
(14:07):
Yeah.
That has to be significantly differentand then render it out.
I don't know,
so tiny. Yeah.
But then you could actually see it.
So it was, it was a lot of fun.It was a lot of work.
It was the - those were year long projects.
18-20 months.
So like making a movie.You were super connected
to have those types of opportunitiesbecause people don't normally get those.
(14:32):
They don't get exposed to thoseunless they're - No. It was - it was
a combination of, ofI think having a skillset
both as a person and then as a companythat was uncommon and then luck.
I mean, we you know, I ended up,Yeah.
Meeting the people at
Mattel because of who we were
(14:55):
or we had, we had createdor the company that I was with
had decided that we were going to open an L.A.,the L.A.
office because we were going to workin the movie industry.
That was our objective, right?Ok.
Because we had very long projectswith brands.
So we figured if we get movies are shorterand there's like more
per year, it was all planned out, we went there.Yeah.
(15:16):
There was a couple of movie projects,and they were for us,
the word disaster.
They - it was very differentfrom what we were used to doing. Yeah.
But in that process, we got to meet peoplethat were in that space
where they were doing, licensing.
Then we got introducedbecause of Hot Wheels to Mattel.
(15:37):
so completely random.Ah.
Is there an age group?
That was because I,
I did not play with this product.
I don't even know what this product isthat you were mentioning this
Barbie World.
So what age group were you guys targeting?
So this was mostly, so
(15:57):
we did that.
It was, it was
it was interesting because we did - we did the study, we did the field study.
We did like focus groups and interviewsand we had, you know, four year old girls
saying that Barbies were for babiesat like, literally Really?
still too young for me.
Five years oldand something like that in essence. Yeah.
(16:19):
So we thought, ‘We’re a little bitdisheartened.”
But when we let people play,we actually found that, you know,
it was more - it was a significant build.
And, you know, my girls were,
my oldest was 13 at the time.
11 when I started the game.
And she played it, I mean, yeahWell yeah that’s actually that's what girls were interested in.
(16:41):
And it had a little bit of whatsocial media offers today
because it allowed you to communicatewith people all over the world.
We actually had a chat systemthat, created.
We created the technology that allowed themost of - the first one - the first white -
normally when people filter for content,they're looking for things
we're not supposed to say.
(17:01):
So what we did is we actually lookedfor things that you could say. Oh yeah.
So the system only hada certain number of words.
It had a couple hundred wordsand some vocabulary.
And then certain combinations of the wordswere - were blacklisted.
but because we had -we had that we could translate them.
And so we actuallyhave a system where, I mean,
yearsand years ago, you can type in English
(17:23):
and you would get an accurate Frenchinterpretation.
And Barbie girls actually existedin seven countries, five languages.
so you were chatting with peopleall over the world,
and I think it created an interestingplay pattern.
Which is why,
you know, I think one of the pieces
that was interesting for Matteland for us at the time was that
(17:45):
that was a shift from just
I mean, before technologycame along, people in
that space were making objectsand toys, right?
They were making physical objects.
But then when you make things like this,you're actually working on play.
Not always.
That's where you start shiftingfrom play patterns, which may have a toy That’s right.
(18:08):
or not, to just being producers.So much psychology involved with it.
Yeah. Yeah, yeah. It was, it was yeah.Rarely.
But it was, it was an interesting,interesting endeavor.
So G.I. Joe was Hasbro, right?Yeah.
So not Mattel.
that's the competitor to it, but notreally because Barbie is turning girls. Yeah.
(18:30):
And then you also had, you know, Mattel,we didn't work on it.
They used our technology, but we didn'tdo the work specifically on it.
But they built something for Hot Wheels.
and then before that, we built a- a
another environmentfor Coca-Cola called CokeMusic,
which was in a virtual worldwith, you know, millions of users
that you could make music.
(18:51):
And it was titley under the cat codes.
What's the timeframe for this?
This is, I’m gonna get it wrong.
2000.Wow. Not that far. Not that long ago.
although I find it's interestingbecause a lot of,
you know, maybe a year,
maybe two years agowhen people were talking
about the Metaverse
and the Metaverse and the Metaverse, and the stores in the Metaverse.
(19:11):
Right.
Actually, show them that, you know,16 years ago when we opened the Walmart,
you know, in virtual space,this was before Second Life. Yeah.
For all that, you know,you could buy music
at a discountand virtual furniture for your room.
And, and you had readersand you had Walmart checkout counters.
So, yeah.Wow.
So it was a full, there was commercebecause you use the currency
(19:34):
that was under the cap of Colayou bought at the convenience store.
So, yeah,
You know, that's so incredible
because people will think that VirtualReality or Augmented Reality, it's like Yeah.
it's still cutting edge and everything,but it's been around for a long time. Oh yeah, now,
what we have now is we have the,
let's say, the fidelity of the experience is increasingly better.
(19:58):
Yeah.
You know, we - we have just for an example, I mean,
two years ago, we had a holographictheater that was oper - operating here
in Lake Nona,using Microsoft HoloLens as - as the platform.
It was great.I mean, it's an open space. Right.
You get to walk around following,you know, fantastic creatures.
(20:18):
You know, in this, like,great environment.
And it was a great experience. Yeah.
But then you try the Apple Vision Proand you see like their dinosaur demo
and it's like a complete leap.
Yeah, that was cool.
Yeah.
Complete leap.
In terms of the,of the fidelity of the experience.
And then, you know, you lookat the first examples of augmentation,
(20:42):
and you know, there were like three lines,you know, kind of vectors.
I remember in,
2004, in SIGGRAPH,
they had a device that actually projected,directly into your retinas.
You have to, you have to sign a release
for them to let you use it,and it actually augmented.
(21:03):
You got text, like so like thatno one else could see except you. Wow.
And you were not.
You were just writing,
something was on top of your eye.
Just projecting. Yeah.
Very Black Mirror moment and youuse it to like, you know, get data. Yeah, Black Mirror.
But you know, it's, it’s there.
It's just that it's a lot easier.
I know, the thing about Black Mirroris that,
(21:25):
it's very dark.
I think it paints a very, picturethat says.
“You know we need to pay attentionto what's going out there.”
And I'm pretty sure it's been aroundfor a really long time because,
like the internetand everything that we experience,
whether it was AR,VR and web and everything,
(21:45):
it was all done back in the, I think 50s,
by a bunch of scientist white guys. And,
you know, it was the Ivy League schoolsand they were creating all of this.
And here it is.
You know,we fast forward another 50, 60 years.
And you go, it'snow something that's out there.
But what is still,it always makes you go, “What's
going on in the back of the roomthat we don't know about?”
(22:06):
And I think that's where Black Mirrorkind of paints a picture that, Yeah.
Well, yeah, we tested it on these things.
It's just that people think it's just like,
oh no, that don’t never happened.
But probably it did.
Yeah, I think it - it paints a difference between
technologyand the use of - the use of technology. Yeah.
You know, when you go to,when you go to places like SIGGRAPH,
(22:29):
which is really a conference of peoplethat are working in computer graphics, Yeah.
it's universities and companiesworking on ideas
and for really, for the most part,not working with applications.
They're just showing you, “Hey,
we can make this thingthat makes you glove,
that makes you feel like you'regrasping something real,
but you're not.”Right.
(22:50):
There's like little actuators and thingsthat make you get this tactile feedback.
Yeah.
And then someone says“That it'll be great for robotic surgery.”
Or you want a build a video game. Yeah.
So that's, I think that's - that's - that
Black Mirror is morein the use of technology than
how it might be used by humans. Yeah.
Yeah I agree with - I agree with you.
(23:11):
Well what is, the the coolest innovationthat you've seen lately?
You’re exposed to so much out here.Hmmm, so,
Way more than what I see.
And I travel in a circle.
But what you guys have outhere is amazing.
So I'll tell you, I’ll tell you two thingsthat are very interesting.
One is we have, I've seen a lot of,
(23:36):
uses of models.
So machine learning and AI to actuallylook at diagnostic imaging and
that's been really incredible. X-rays, and MRIs. X-rays and MRIs.
But because the pattern recognition
mechanisms that you get out of modelscan be significantly more.
(23:56):
I mean, you're basically I think, getting
a really good person that interprets MRIs
every single time you're looking at itthat doesn't get tired, doesn't, Right.
So, you know, a friend of mine who doesthat was asking,
“So what would you preferwhen you prefer a doctor looking,
if you could only choose one a doctoror machine?” It’s like,
(24:19):
if I don't get to pick the doctor,a machine, I’ll have a machine read the MRI.
So the second, the second, let's callit invention is a set of technologies.
And it's the pieces that are making ita lot easier for people
to create without having to actually knowthe understanding of tools.
And this is somethingthat I've seen happen,
Transforming whole industriesover the span of my career.
(24:40):
When I started, it was the beginningof the desktop publishing revolution.
Right?
Which is, you know, late 80s of the Mac,come on in 84.
And suddenly you could actually createincredibly good looking documents,
you know, with a laser printer,you know, at a small studio or at home.
So something that required tensor hundreds of thousands
of dollars of equipment
(25:01):
before to create somethingthat looked professional
now was availablefor a lot of people.
And they kind of,democratized that piece.
And then the same thing happenedwith video.
You know, you had, you know,that was millions of dollars, of equipment Right.
that was required to record video, and then along comes,
you know, DVD, a format from Sony.
that was enoughgood quality to be able to create,
(25:22):
high quality content at the time.
And things like the Video Toaster,right, from NewTek
it was a devicethat actually allowed you to do,
a studio like a full,you know, video editing studio.
But it ran on an Amiga computer.Okay.
Which I don't know if you really remember anymore.
A device,No.
And then then you had After Effects,which was originally came from, Know that one.
(25:44):
which originally came froma company called CoSA, early on, and so the -
you were able to do things that requiredliteral million dollars of equipment.
I remember walking in with my Macinto a studio
to actually record an animationthat we've done,
and the guy was like,it's not going to work.
We have
I mean, the Silicon Graphics machine,again,
(26:04):
another brand that doesn't exist anymorethat's doing our animation
that connects to this deviceit’s hundreds of thousands of dollars.
You're coming here with a $3,000
equipmentand you're trying to connect to it.
It's not goinna work.
And then it's, you know,we were working with the same quality
and he sold everything and went to - to Mac.
I think
(26:25):
that was kind of like the basic tools.
But now we're in a situationwhere some of the basic skills
are, are available, and I think that it'sopening a completely different revolution.
You may have someone that has very strongmusical talent.
You have a very good beat, but in the pastthey've been, you know, kind of like
(26:46):
producers of sorts that are taking a loopand they're doing this and that. Right.
But it's not it'snot a good set of Crayolas for them to draw. Right.
And then with the advent of AI,you can actually through,
through direction, you can actually craftthings are new.
and like how, like it happenedwith desktop publishing
and with the desktop - with the desktopvideo revolution.
(27:09):
and you know, with us being ableto create content on our phones, Right.
the first wave is going to be a mishmash,right?
Right.
But suddenly you have people
that have incredibly compelling content,
you know, YouTube channelsthat they're doing with a webcam,
or at least they're workingwith a webcam on top of their computer.
Now they're doing it
in a multi-million-dollar studiothat makes it look like they're doing it
(27:31):
on the webcam on the computer.Right.
But - but, you know, we're goingto see the same with all the tools
that we have now from an art perspectiveto start the creation process.
So I'm excited. Yeah. Low code, no code?
Don’t have to go and learnthat you can just use this one platform. Yeah exactly.
Canva takes all the need for Adobe awayand anybody can be Or even if you haven't,
(27:52):
even if you use Adobe productstoday, the amount
of AI assistancethat you get doing things like,
you know, I paid for college schoolin New York, retouching pictures. Right.
You know, early Macsand a machine called Shima Seiki
where they paid, people paid hundreds of hours.
And all it didwas erase stuff from photos?
(28:14):
A lot of fashion. and then, you know,Yeah.
You go to
Photoshop today and you do, you know,Just like this.
you do one of their AI powered fills,and it's
better than the best workthat you're doing at the time. Yeah.
Yeah,Yeah.
So many things that have advancedso quickly.
You know, we take it for granted. Yeah.
(28:35):
Yeah. That's the funniest thing.
Um, panelists.
You've been a paneliston a lot - of a lot of things.
I'm really curious as to what was some of
your favorite discussion topics?Um, hmm...
I did one with, I did
one with,it was called the Power Source Summit.
it was with people from NASA.Oh that would be interesting.
(28:57):
And it was awesomebecause everyone on the panel,
we were talking about the future of cities.
And we had someone from,being from York Ingels Group.
we had I mean, I had peoplethat I actually look up to.
The panel, it was very humbling.Yeah.
But,
those are great becauseyou get to have a conversation with people Yeah.
that, you know, are doing workat the top of their game.
(29:20):
Yeah.
And you know, it's a good opportunity,you know?
So that was, that was, Memorable.
That was a memorable one, it was a fun one,just because the topic was one
that's of importanceto what I do here in Lake Nona.
But at the same time, the conversationwas with people that had experience Right.
doing what we do here,which is not that common.
(29:40):
Yeah, that would be cool.Yeah.
I know I went to Techonomy, and that was was out here, just coming back.
and that's where I also saw you
up on the stage when they were talkingYeah that was a good one too.
We actually had Orlando Innovators.
Panel that I, that I moderated.Yeah.
And it was great because it's, you know,
I always tell people, you know, meincluded,
(30:02):
I had a very different image for like,people have this Yeah.
preconceived notion that it isjust entertainment and don’t get me wrong.
it's fantastic entertainment.It’s not.
But that's, I like the,the slogan that we had before then.
Now it's Unbelievably Real. Yeah.
But before it was,“You Don’t Know The Half Of It.:
That's right.
And I think “you don't knowthe half of it.”
(30:22):
is a very good way of describingOrlando, because there's a whole half, Yes.
you don’t know, and I think a lot,a lot of that other half
is in what we do here.
in Lake Nona and what happens.
in you know, with UCFand you know this whole,
you know, creative ecosystemaround things like space and
(30:42):
simulation that people have no - no ideaexists.
You know I didn't know before I came.Yeah.
Yeah, there's Neo City you know,and they have semiconductors.
And then there'sall the things that you guys
are doing out here with Medical Cityand there's giants here. Yeah.
You know, many times when I come out,when I drive out here to, to,
to Lake Nona, I look at the massive sizeof the buildings
(31:05):
and it's, it's very,it takes me to Jurassic Park.
Honestly, every time I see it,I go, “This is like Jurassic Park.”
It looks so brewed.
It's so beautiful and everything.
Anyway, I bet they got dinosaurssomewhere around here.
If we do, I'm going to make surethat the counting algorithm
is actually countingthe complete number of dinosaurs. Right?
(31:26):
Not, not just looking forthe ones they thought they had.
That was the one part in the bookthat was really awesome. Yeah.
It's like it's the whole,the whole thing is they were counting.
They were looking for anx number of dinosaurs.
And then it's like, actually let's countthe ones that we have.
And they found they have more.
Yeah.
So hopefully we don't have,you know, spontaneous mutations in our.
(31:47):
dinosaurs doing that, yeah?Yeah.
That is something there. Okay.
We're going to change completely different,I know that you have a restaurant,
but what is a signature dishthat you can whip up effortlessly?
And people think that you're aculinary wiz? Uh, effortlessly?
effortlessly would have
to be ice creamjust because, you know, it's, Yum.
(32:09):
you know, it'syou put good stuff in, you freeze it.
Yeah.
You used to have to wait a lotfor the freezing.
Yeah, but now, You don’t have to hand crank it.
No, I have, I have both, you know,
the one with the KitchenAidand I have, a Ninja.
Ninja Creamy. Yeah.
I want the Taco Jet,which is a high end restaurant quality one.
Too expensiveand too big to put in the house.
(32:30):
but I make,I make interesting Carbonara.
I don't know what that is.
It's an Italian. Italian,a simple pasta.
It's like a
I think that the best thing to showpeople is, like, simple order
or simple food. I'm not a, I'm not a fancy,Yeah.
culinary.Culinary,
I like, you do, nice things.
(32:51):
Food ingredients with a twist.
I agree, I think that what I can dothat's really, really good
is make a good omelet or a frittatabecause it's like, just take what’s over
in that refrigerator.Well, omelets are what we test,
well, one of the thingswe test chefs with. My brother’s a chef.
He actually went to, a culinary school-A culinary school, the CIA in New York?
No, he went to French Culinary Institute.Oh.
(33:13):
We actually went to schoolat the same time in New York. Very nice.
Just a lot of fun to be around.
My brother and, yeah, He probably had really good food all the time.
Some of the time, yeah, we had - we were starving students,
So, so you know, for some.Okay.
Yeah. Yeah.
Well he could come home with food or.
Yes. Exactly, no no no he came -At least maybe he ate well.
he came home with food, that was interesting.
(33:35):
All right.
So we're going to take a momentand acknowledge our sponsor
and we'll be right back.
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So we're backto the second half of the show
(33:55):
where we talk about the future of jobsand industries in 2030.
What do you think2030 could possibly look like?
Because I think that with Covid,
nobody saw that comingand that changed everything about work. Yeah.
Then when we had,some other things that happened
AI, that changed everythingin the world of technology,
(34:15):
I think these types of big shiftsare happening more frequently.
and I don't think anybody's gonna,
They go, “Oh, no,I'm not going to see any cars flying”.
Like, well, we’re seeing cars fly.Yeah, yeah, comfortably in about three years.
Yeah, yeah, Yeah, we’ll have that.
And how did they handle flying carswith like there's no science.
(34:35):
There's no what are you doing?
You're following theroads off the - yeah. Software.
Yeah.
Um, so the world in 2030.
Yeah.
I think it's getting harder to predict,even if it's just five years.
Right.
Look, I think the things like Covidand things like.
AI are accelerants, right?Yeah.
(34:57):
They're not this.
I mean, I would guess AI does havesome incredible transformational,
pieces of it.
But I'll give you an example.
Before Covid, we already had about, about,
30% of people that worked from homeat least one day a week in Lake Nona.
Right, we - we do a survey.Right.
(35:18):
So we had this numberwhich was bigger. Today,
that's a - common place.
They actually people will judge jobs by saying,“Okay, what is
what is your job from home policy?”
Whereas if you had asked this questionpre-COVID
they would have been like “Are you nuts, you know,what do you mean don't work from home?”
Yeah.That would be like a special exception.
You have to like bring it up with HR.
(35:39):
And now it's like, okay, it's three daysin the office, two days at the office,
show up at the office,even though it's, I mean, whatever it is.
so those are - those were accelerants.Yeah.
They created a significantly betteradoption curve for technology.
I mean, video conference
and - and video based calling
is something that, like QR codes or somethingthat are used today. Right.
(36:02):
But you can go to babies and you can go
to, you know, you know,
y’know people that are,that are - that are completely disconnected
from technology, traditionally
As we think about itand they're completely conversant
in, in those technologies.
So we had a lot of acceleration.
(36:22):
AI is the first time I think,
that we’re having technology disrupt,
thought workers.
Right.
We've had technology disrupt peoplethat were working
through the mechanical pieces of the process,
right you have, you know, farm equipment,you have factories completely Right.
(36:43):
being disrupted.
You know,robots are automating different things.
So the stuff that that required our brainand our body,
right, but primarily requirethat we manipulate things
that has been disruptedtime and time again by technology.
It's the first timethat, you know, thought,
work is truly disrupted by technology.
(37:04):
You could guess that, you know, likecalculators initially, and the computers
had some level of thatwhere you were not relying on your
understanding of, let's say, core
math to be able to do thingsbecause in Excel it would do it for you.
And you know, you no longerhave to remember or look up how to do statistics.
You could just ask Excel,but this is a new level, right?
(37:26):
So I think there will be aRight.
reassessment of, the
stuff that we need for being a successful,professional or successful worker.
I know that you focus on work. So.
That's, that's that's I thinkthe areas, that I'm going towards, Yeah.
I think that for a long timepeople have been talking about skills
as opposed to careers.Uh-huh.
(37:48):
And I think this actually allows,
for the first time in some areas,to have skills, be something that It’s really a spotlight.
Traditionally, you know,traditionally like really, really valued
and when I - okay.My definition of skills is very different.
I think of there's tasks that you do in a job. Yeah.
(38:08):
There are
certifications that I would have that candemonstrate that I know something.
There's experienceof what I've done in there.
But competencies,those are - I call them power skills.
too, competencies are key.
That's research,time management, creativity. Without a doubt.
I mean the ability to write that out,And how do you measure those, right?
(38:29):
Yeah.I mean, I think that - that's what you want.
That's gonna be super interesting.
Oh, that is where - yeah.It's how you interact,
How do you interact with other peoplehow are you able to collaborate? Yeah.
Right.
Because those pieces are going to be,you know, because when you have a human
plus machine,you know, mind-melded together, right?
You're going to have very productive,very productive humans, right?
(38:51):
Hopefullywith like access to a variety of skills
that normally do not requirethat you have teams like
I used to be able to code
right? At some point in my life,I paid bills per project.
Because you were an artist.
And they were also there, very different, lots of right brain Yeah but,
It’s the same, it’s the same.
They are all here.If you think of it as -
(39:13):
It's, it's a - it's problem solving.
Okay?
It's just the toolset is different,but it's exactly the same. Uh-huh.
It's - it's, it's a problemsolving process.
You have a problem.
The problem can be,
Do you need,you know, an object to move in screen.
Do you need to code, or you need to be ableto connect to an Arduino
and have it do something, or do you want some,
(39:34):
You want a different colorand those require - it's a problem.
Yeah.
And then, you know, your ability
to understand colors and how to mix themeven if it's trial and error,
right?
Which is a method. Right.
Or, you know, being able to completelyunderstand how pigments actually will work
and react to each other.
If you're doing things like ceramics,which
you don't get to see the colorsuntil they're fully baked.
(39:57):
Those are -those are techniques, all of them.
And I,I see this as a - maybe it's reductive,
but I find everything as a problemsolving challenge.
How do I express feeling, right?I - I agree with I totally agree with you.
I mean, I'm a poetand I want to express, you know,
my
inconformity with, you know,natural selection
(40:21):
as a poet.
I have a problem and I have a skillwhich is, you know, I have verbs
and I have adjectives, and, you know,I weave them and I still think programing
is more challenging thenprobably using some of the other things
that I dobecause I took all of my electives
for art, I loved art,and I also loved science, but I - when I,
when I went and I was, I took some coursesin programing, I went, “This is hard.
(40:43):
This is like, you know, different.”
Well, thankfully it's so I saidI did it for a while.
and then I couldn't do it anymore.
It got to be complicated.
Okay. That makes me feel better.
It got to be quite complex.
And then, recently,I had to do something,
and normallyI would have just opened, like, you know,
gone online to look for some stuffand coded in something.
(41:07):
Python probably, or what I was doing, nowI just,
you know, go to ChatGPT and say, hey,
if I need to do this.
what language?
Okay, now that you have a languagestructure, it, doesn't think right.
fix it.
Okay now code it.
Did it four times and I had it,Hmmm.
(41:28):
so I can code in it.
And that's what I'm saying.
You're getting this little, assistive process. Right.
The bot is becoming, At least initially, you're going to have
assistants of sorts,or create- you're going to have additional staff.
Cause then you would see.
AI’s,
augmentation, now.Yeah.
(41:49):
And then,The ability to, create those chat bots
is something that I'm intrigued about.
And I wanted to, to learn more about that.
Is that something that you guysare doing out here?
We actually have two that we've built.
We're building one modelthat is actually specialized
in speaking Lake Nona’s, in Lake Nona language.
So we've continuously interactedwith it to the marketing team,
(42:13):
primarily to use language and descriptorsTrained it.
that talk about ,tell the story in our tone of voice.
So we've trained an existing model
to be significantly closer to what
how would we tell a story.
and that hasn’t been to complex,Yeah.
doing things as to be more detailedor look more realistic.
(42:38):
So, do you have a favorite robot
AI, augmented reality, virtual reality
Right now an augmented reality.
kind of like, I mean, AIis like - a big umbrella. Yeah.
So I'll skip that one.
But I actually believe that all of the
of the virtual augmented,
(42:58):
you know,all that's augmented is interesting.
And I've been trying to do a lot more.
So we've done, as I mentioned before,we did a holographic AR theater
with it -it was across the street from Boxi. Where was it?
Okay. It was like a ticket to Nevada.
You know, you could,you know, participate in these things.
Then we - we collaboratedwith, with an artist
(43:18):
and the city of Romeand Amsterdam called Faun.
And we actually have a link to realityposters throughout Lake Nona.
Cool.
And then next we're actually doing
a collaboration that will allow you toactually see the dollar in animated form.
So you're downloading an appand then you're using that app to be able
to see
This one will be on an app thatthat people already have,
because we're trying to - we're trying to do it
(43:39):
in the mechanismsthat people already have.
Okay.
But the reason I mentionedaugmented reality is because I believe
that the set of technologiesis interesting, not just glasses.
Right?
Like there's nothing that says that therecouldn't be a projector in the corner.
And when I do this I get a keyboard here.Right.
(44:01):
That's augmented reality, right?
This is realitythat is being augmented by technology, you know,
if we take a rock, right,something that looks like a rock
and we stick a speaker inside,and then we put a way for it
to actually have a way to playback music or playback stories.
And then you allow, you allow people
to knock on the rock,or you have a camera that recognizes people.
(44:24):
And the rock then starts tellingthe story, you’re augmented reality, right?
Because you're actually adding somethingto the built environment with technology.
So I think the, the
overarching concept of
augmentation is one that will be
it'll be the most interesting.
I think I put things like, for example,projection mapping.
(44:47):
Into that set of technologiesbecause, you know, when they do it Yeah.
at the Disney Castle or we do itacross the street at The Beacon,
those are pieces of architecture,that are reality and we’re augmenting it.
Have you seen this thing that's on Disney?
It's called, drain, Drain the Oceans.
And they go and they map the ocean floors,and then they pull back the water
(45:11):
so that you can see what's been buriedunderneath the water
or underneath, land,whether it was in, California.
They're scanning.They're scanning the ocean.
Yeah. Oh. That's awesome. I haven't seen it.
It's on, uh Disney.
We have one startup, well it's a large startup.
I really don’t know what that could mean to you.
But they're actually launchinga constellation of satellites
(45:31):
that actually meant to light up space,and they'll be able to, Yeah.
Is that
does thatmean there's going to be a planetarium
or are you just gonna see it through goggles?
No, this is just, there's a service.
So there's a company that already existscalled Planet that actually does,
scan the Earth
cameras technology.Right.
And now,
(45:52):
what we will do is we do it with Lidar.
So it will beit will be able to do it in 3D.
And Lidar has a very different wayof penetrating through
clouds and small foliage, shallowbodies of water and things like that.
So you're able to get a betterunderstanding of the world around you.
So it'll be interesting to see these daily,
(46:12):
you know, scans of of our planet.Yeah.
I'm sitting there thinking when,now I'm involved with OMG Labs and,
you know, and Indienomicon,I work with Kunal Patel, on
on those, those two are his companies,Indienomicon puts on
which, you well know,
we're going to be having a GameJam out here, one on the space, and right now.
(46:34):
Now I want to go to meet them becausewe're going to be a booth technology.
to do that.
Replication of whatit's like to be in space.
Oh, yeah.
So, you know, that would be coolthat they would be able to bring something
that I could just see it on the big screeninside a booth..
Yeah, that would be Yeah. That'd be something.
And then you have,
then you have, physical environmentslike the one that was built by,
(46:59):
by NASA, UCF.
And they have that Regolith centerwhere you're actually able
to interact with, moon dust, basically.
Ultrafine particles.Yeah.
So you can simulate what, you know,digging on the moon, I want to live here now.
I'm not kidding.
I want to go. I want to be here.It’s fun.
This is where I want to be.
All right. So,
(47:21):
the creator, Geoffrey Hinton,he created AI.
He is called the Godfather of AI.
And he was interviewed on 60 minutesback in October 8th of 2023.
he believes that one of the waysin which these systems of AI might escape,
is that they would be controlling
(47:42):
their own computer code to modify itself.
So it could, it could get hijacked.
he said,“That is something that we as human
humanity itself,we need to be seriously concerned about.”
I can see thatbecause we're creating something that
can - and we're training it
to be able to either,you know, duplicate code and do things.
(48:05):
And I’m going, have we not seen some of theTerminator movies, have they not seen,
what is it, 2001that's based on this and things like that. Yeah, I -
Okay.
In, in- in - I love sci fi.
I always read sci fi.Yeah.
and, you know, thatthe concept of, of technology gaining,
you know, the ability to - The ability to control.
(48:27):
either the ability to, to be self awareor even through no ability of being self-aware
but just by algorithmicallydeciding on things,
to, you know,have things that have a significant impact
on us on the planetis, something that has been there
even before we had any inkling of AI,as it - as it - as it exists today. Sure, right?
(48:49):
Yeah.
There's two things.
One, one side is that it's
it's almost, unavoidable.
The, the creation.I think -
Right. Right?
The only thing that you hopeis that the basis of that process
has some levels of resilience and controlthat allows it to be,
(49:13):
you know, primarily a force for good.
But it's like, you know,I put AI in the same
level as electricity, right? It is,
can be used for incredible stuff
and for nefarious purposes.
Right.
I mean,
I think it's a question of,of what people use it for.
(49:37):
Yes, I know I'm not I'm not lying awake.
as some people are with the ideathat, the AI will have
either a moment of self-awarenessor a decision by an algorithm
that says, “Hey, would be better offif humans weren’t polluting the planet.
so let's kill them.” Right? Kind of like
that type of situation.
Right?
(49:57):
It's, you know, I don't think.
I don't think we're there yet.
I think the safeguards to protect it are,
very complex because we
as humans, we're very goodat understanding certain things.
Right.Right.
But when you move outside of simple causeeffect environments,
(50:18):
significantly fewer people are ableto understand, you know, there's studies
that have been shown that, you know,we make incredibly poor decisions.
You know, if,
you know, compared to how data tells usthat we should make decisions. Right.
You know, the typical stuffis where it’s like, get a candy now or two later,
and what not so, the - I think there's
no there's no closing Pandora's box, right?No.
(50:40):
So the only thing that we can dois, is It’s here.
Okay, nowhow do we use the good part of it?
I think safeguards was the key word.
Safeguards. Be good stewards.Yeah, but also how you,
but how do we use the good parts of itto protect us from the bad parts? Yeah.
Because I think that's the one partthat's missing is that, yes, we've
gained a tremendous adversary,but we would also gain a tremendous ally
(51:04):
in the same process, which iswhat happened with The Doors Clause.
Right?
The government told us news release,you have both. Right. It’s Adam and Eve.
and if you were ableto pit them against each other.
Then you remain in balance.
So I think our ability to,of course there's a need for regulation.
Of course there's need for Ethics.
Ethics about that.
But - but it’s also embracing
(51:27):
the one side that can, you know,that can protect us from the other.
Yeah.Yes, yeah.
But I'm not lying awake about it.
No, I don't either.
But I do think about it
and I go, what are the organizationsthat are out there that are helping
to create those safeguardsto help people be good stewards, to
create accountability around the thingsthat are -. For the most part,
(51:48):
the people that can do thatare ill equipped,
It should bethe ones that are creating it. to do it.
And that's what I saidyou have to use what you have.
Maybe to use it as an adversary,because if we rely on even the most Yeah.
well-meaning members of a regulatory bodyor government,
you're going to be dealing withindividuals that have extreme, Alternate plans.
(52:10):
and extremely poor understandingof the technology for the most part.
Yeah.
Like they, like literally you have peoplethat don't understand something
regulating what they don't understand.
So I don't know, that - that's why I say,
you know, pour fire on both sides,see what happens.
Well you really hit a lotof the ethical dilemmas that were there.
So I don't know if there's anythingthat you want to add to it. No, okay.
(52:33):
But I think the, the one piece that I,at least we try is,
is transparency, right?
Which is I think this was done using AI.
or AI played a play in the - play in this,and this is an important one.
I think if someone wins an Academy Award,
you know, andhalf of the character came from the tool.
(52:56):
That doesn't take awaythe fact that they came up with him, that
it's their - their process and their - their system,so that - that should be part of the Yeah, and that’s still a person.
that should be part of the processand it should be, you know, it's
it's like in the beginning like,oh, that was donated.
A computer used to meanthat it was kind of like
so somehow people thought it was easieror cheating.
(53:16):
And it's just a tool. Yeah.
So I, usingAI right now has a kinda connontation, “Aaah.”
“It’s AI and what
did use to train the model?” And all that stuff, it will get resolved.
And then it will be like,
that's what your toolkit contains.
So yeah, the ethics is on transparency,
for me Yeah.
And those people that arethe naysayers are important also.
(53:39):
They serve a place where it createsdialog of course, for sure. Yeah.
Okay. Last question.
Well next to last question,what is the best mentoring advice
that you want to share with our listeners?
Look,
I think there is something to be saidabout
(54:01):
doing, right? That's part of tyinginto the first question,
which was the doers.
So I think we spend too much timein thought space.
in every part, in our careers,in a variety of different things.
I think finding an opportunityto do a little bit
of what you're saying,that you want to do or can do is critical.
(54:21):
So I would say good mentoring advicefor mentors and for mentees is,
let's find a small portion of thiswhere I can show that I can
or you can teach mehow, right? That part.
But on the - on something real,Yeah.
because I think that contact with realityhelps quite a bit.
I agree, and that's whythe value of like having Hackathons
(54:43):
and creating spaces like thisand all of these things that encourage, Exactly.
you to get out of, out of the spacethat you usually think in, out of the Yep.
actual environment, maybe aroundother people than challenges, right?
Yeah. So that's 100% there.
Hackathons are great because.
you're able to do somethingYeah.
(55:03):
hopefully that has some levelof functionality and works and
that shows you can do it.
I think every day of your careerhas been a Hackathon, whether they’re at Mattel, I wish.
and I’m sitting ther thinking, okay,that had to be like a giant Hackathon.
And then Ann Coco was like,
you know it still was The good thing is there was lots of people on the team.
Yeah. Right.
So there were, a lot of resources, yeah.There was a lot of resources, period.
(55:26):
We had a lot, we had a lot of incrediblytalented people.
That we work togetherto create those things. Yeah.
So that wasthat was, those were easier because you know,
So where should people look for youand how do they find Tavistock?
You knowtypically I give your LinkedIn.
LinkedIn is the easiest way.
(55:46):
you know, I have,
we have the Lake Nona,
website where it has a lot of informationabout what happens
in Lake Nona.
So I couldn't find that one.
But I did find a Tavistock development.
Yeah.
Tavistock development is a development company,but that's more, you know, construction.
Right. Right.
So what's the Lake Nona website? Just LakeNona.com?Just LakeNona.com.
(56:07):
LakeNona.com, and then, then LinkedIn,Perfect.
you know, my profile and,Juan Fernando Santos.
It's, I'm not,Okay.
That's all right. Well,I want to thank you so much.
This has been I always enjoythese conversations that I get to have No, thank you.
with people because normallywhen I come in and I first and went,
oh, I've got to go, I tell people,we got to go talk to this guy.
(56:28):
This is a place where we need to havemed -, you know, our mental health care.
And he goes, okay, let's go.
And it's been a pleasure having you here.And I’m glad you had me here.
I know I'm so excited.
So this podcast is going to come outthe week before we have it here.
And we're gonna having some little teasersand things like that.
But I want to upload it. Awesome.
Thank you very much.
Thank you. It's been delightful.
(56:49):
Thank you
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Music is by Sophie Lloyd.
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Learn more at www.E4C.tech and
(57:11):
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Here we are.
So, hi everyone.
My name is IsabellaJohnston and I am the host of
The Intern Whisperer Podcast
It is brought to you by Employers4 Change.
And today's guest is Juan Santos.
He is the senior VP of Brand Experienceand Innovation here at Tavistock.
We are recording in Tavistock.
He has 20 years of experiencecreating magic,
(00:33):
and he has been involved in awardwinning transformational work
such as the first worldwidewebcast of Earth Day,
Coca-Cola's loyalty programlike Coke Rewards.
Just so you know, that's pretty cool.
This one, I think, is even better.
Mattel's shift from toys to playthrough the creation of BarbieGirls.com,
(00:53):
and implementation of the largestautonomous public transit network in Lake Nona.
And we are in the heart of everythingthat is technology.
So Juan, I always kick off the showand I ask my guests to describe themselves
using five words.
As you know, we went over those words,so no surprises here. Yep.
This one, you taught me a new word.
(01:14):
Ductile.
What is that?
It's like a - like a version of resilient.
Being ductileis like being a version of resilient.
It actually means that it can changeshape, it can adapt. Ah.
So I think that - I think that the.
That's the one
good superpower.
that I would like to have, yeah to be able to be,A shapeshifter.
(01:35):
not stuck in one ideaand be able to change ideas quickly.
Yeah, that is a really good sup-superpower, I agree.
Whimsical.
Yeah, I think the ability to,I think the ability to be amazed
is, is important.
I mean, I think, without being - withoutbeing able to be a little bit
(01:56):
in that suspension of disbelief momentand it will, be - I don't know.
You see something interesting fireworks.
Or you watch a rocket launch,which we do all the time here.
and yeah.
We're doing 102 rockets a year,so that's almost a week.
So, I mean, it shouldn't be something thatdoes not - that is not at all inspiring.
(02:17):
And I think that ability of like,being in that whimsical space is,
I think, importantfor us to be able to come up with ideas.
You must see it as an adult.
I work with three year olds in my church,and I love working with it
because they get to play andI get to see things through their eyes.
You're seeing it throughan adult’s eyes, but you also think Yeah.
that you have that, that awe comesfrom, like, ‘Holy cow’, when you were a kid.
(02:41):
I say whimsical, but I, you know, I thinkin reality it would have been like,childlike.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, maybe. Yeah, yeah.
Because, you know,the people that think up these ideas that.
‘Well, where did that come from?’
So you picked Doer, why Doer?
You know, one of the,
I've always been in,in some sort of intersection of,
(03:04):
like, a creative fieldwhere you have to come up with ideas.
But ideas only countif you're able to build them right in there.
So I always say when people havethose brainstorming sessions and people
do like Post-its with their bright ideasand the little dots on the Post-its,
I feel really badabout the great ideas of the Post-its.
I mean,I think we should have like a memorial or,
(03:24):
for like the best ideas in the world.
And there's probably planet saving ideas.
that are left in a Post-it notesomewhere in a brainstorming session. Yeah.
So I think the - the ability for us to movefrom not just thinking
of something to be able to execute,even if it's not 100% of it,
but being able to put it into actionwould actually make a difference.
(03:46):
You know, Idon't know where the exact quote is, but,
you know, that creativity is, you know, 1%
or 5% inspiration, 95% perspiration.
Yes, you’re paraphrasing it for sure.
And I agree with you.
Yeah, because you can have all of thesegreat ideas.
But if they don't launch, you know, try.
This is where the word try is appropriate.
(04:07):
You have to give it a shot.
Yeah.Yeah.
Um, Servant why did you pick that one?
Well, I think the - the idea here is that,um, you know, we have to be in,
in, we have to be, call it - cognizantof what others - what others need.
Right.
And that doesn't mean thatyou don't have necessarily, an objective.
(04:28):
I mean, you may have an objective,but if you're able to fulfill a need
for someone else,
maybe that gives you,
you know, gets you closer to your own goal.
Right it's not necessarily selfless,although, you know, you love to,
you know, aspire to be that, but um, but,you know, if you're able
to be cognizant of other people's needs,
then you have a better chanceof being successful in creating
(04:52):
things that people actually end up using.It’s pretty close to being
Top of the Maslow's theory. Right?
You know, when you're aware of othersand their needs. Yep.
So I agree,I like servant leadership a lot.
It's one of the main leadership modelsI studied when I was in my PhD program,
and I think that's the only way
you can movemountains is being a servant leader.
(05:13):
Creator, I know this is a wordthat you touched on earlier.
Creator and Doer. Yeah.
I think that it would be difficult for me
not to write somethingthat has creative or creator,
because that's most of what I- most of what I do,
It means slightly differentthan during the sense
(05:34):
that you are, in some cases, walking a new path.
So I think if you take the doer and you,you put some innovation on it,
and maybe what you're creating is not,
something that has been,that has happened before.
Maybe you are the originator or the innovator of an idea. Yeah.
Yeah,
(05:54):
it is magical about being that personthat's a creator.
And in this space you're surrounded by,you know, Yeah exactly,
I mean, it's,I'm thankfully one of many.
Yeah, and you know,and you don't ever feel alone
and everybody will sit here and go,‘Oh, it's okay to fail.’ right? Because, Yep.
you know, in the rest of the worldwe're taught ‘No failures, bad.’
But inside of a creative space, failureis actually pushing the boundaries.
(06:19):
And that'swhere the search for the ductile comes in.
And it's like, okay, how do we - how do we work around it?
Or how can we, you know, learn from itor how do we actually use it? Yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
How do you go up over, around, throughwhatever you have to do to get it to down.
So where did you get started?
What is your personal storythat you want to share with our listeners
(06:41):
and our viewers, viewers?
The show is also on YouTubeas well as on, audio channels.
So where did you go to school?Okay.
So I,
I went - I went around school a circuitous way.
So I, I started going to engineeringschool in Colombia, where I'm from.
So I doubled.
I was doublemajoring in engineering and industrial
(07:04):
engineering and economic science, and,I didn't finish.
I well, I was in my,
like, seven semesters,so three and a half years in
what would have been a six year programbecause I was doing the double major and,
I actually had the opportunity to work,
(07:25):
that was completely,I wasn't looking for it.
So I on the side, when I was in school,I worked for an ad agency as a tech guy.
Not as a creative guy,but as a tech guy. Yeah.
And for reasons that are quite complex.
the guy that was going to be the,for sure
president of Colombiaat that time, they got assassinated.
(07:49):
It's happened in Columbia history.Oh wow.
Except actually, less in the US.
Since then, we've had two.
but, you know, if you
he died and then his family saidthat the only person they trusted
to carry the mantle for this candidatewho was very annoyed he expressed himself was this
junior senator who was in his late 30sand he became president of Colombia.
(08:13):
And that's where you know,how incredibly young. That’s very young.
And he was our client in, in our agency.
Well, so, you know,we have this side gig of having, Wow.
junior senatorand then the - then we need the people.
We needed people to run the country.
So suddenly, everyone that was workingwith him was incredibly young.
(08:34):
The media called it,his cabinet was called “The Kindergarten”
because it was like a bunch of 20 yearolds, you know, Yeah.
and I ended up working in,communications during y’know,
So I had the chance of actuallydoing the First Amendment process
for the, for the Colombia Constitution.
And then we had the opportunityto work on a few other kinda
(08:57):
important things for the government.Right.
So I, I ended up
and, you know, I stopped going to school,I was working on this. Yeah.
And then, um,Tell me, was he reelected?
Did anything happen?
Actually,one of the things that changed in that,
that we did the amendment forwas to not allow reelection.
So he got reinstated later on.
Five year program.Oh, ok.
(09:19):
Sounds like he was dynamic.
And I think it was he was a good, it was a good shift for the country.
And, but the,
you know, at the end of it,I have had been doing
something completely different,
in a way that was very fulfilling.
So I, in talkingwith, with the guy that I work for,
(09:41):
they are like my mentor in that area.
He's like, ‘Look,
we - there were, you know, there were someopportunities to keep working
in, like
institutions that have to dowith government communications.’
Or he said, ‘Look, but you're like,you're a super young, you should just,
you know, go live in Paris,go live in Tokyo, go live in New York,
(10:04):
in, you know, get, get something differentand then come back.’
And that's what I did.
I actually moved to New York Cityand I went to art school.
So I went to a schoolcalled the School of Visual Arts
and um, and I find, find out-Is that, like graphic design?
Yeah.
Yeah, it was a fine arts, Fine Arts with graphic design.
Uh-huh.Yeah.
So you stumbled into Game Development too?
(10:27):
I think I rememberin a conversation that we had.
How did you do that?
So, you know, at the end, I ended up withsomething that at that time was unique.
It's actually significantly more commonnow, which is I had a very small technical
training with a very strong art training.
So when I came back to Colombia,I started a communications company,
(10:49):
and a lot of what we were doingwere Interactive Communications.
So things that happened in screens.
So originally we did - what we did CD-ROMs,then we did websites.
I know we did, kiosks, games.
You know, it was great.
I mean, because not many people,not many companies had that in those days. No.
(11:10):
And we had the chanceto work, for example, in the,
the first of guidance system for Epcot,which was, like touchscreens
that were called Genie.They were sponsored by GE.
it was like a simple touch screen directory,but that had to be done.
So I had a chanceto be in that cutting edge.
And then, you know, as, as technologybecame more interesting and as,
(11:33):
you know, projects became biggerand - and people and brands were devoting more
and more resources to doingbetter engagement things with people.
We ended up doing large multiplayergames, for companies
like Coca-Cola, like,like Turner and, and Mattel.
And then we builta whole practice out of doing
(11:54):
environments wherepeople could collaborate with each other,
could create, content.
And then or they could engagewith people all over the world. Yeah.
And this was,
of course, before we had large scalesocial platforms and Facebook existed.
But aside from that,there was no Instagram or TikTok.
Yeah, none of these -Yeah, none of these things existed.
So yeah, that's - that's how I ended up there.
(12:16):
And that company got acquired,and got acquired, and got acquired.
and I ended up working for a very largepublicly traded,
you know, marketingcommunications firm, for a long time.
And then, ended up,
coming here to Lake Nona afterwards.Wow, that’s -
So that is very exciting.
Everything that you've been doing,
because it was, especially the thingswith Mattel.
(12:39):
I'm curious if you think workingwith those types of products,
it encourages people to be more playfulin their approach to work.
And maybe it's not quiteas structured, but it's more,
I don't know.
Yeah.
Well, the work itself is very complex.
I mean, required,Yeah.
(12:59):
very like - very strong project management.
very strong. We created for Mattel.
We ended up creating thousands of piecesof virtual clothing
because one of the thingsthat you could do in the - in Barbie Girls,
which was a virtual world, isyou had this almost bottomless,
chest of clothesand wigs, hairdos, and accessories and, Right.
(13:23):
you know, dress up and, creating your avatarin a way that was unique.
Yeah.
Was - was a portion of the,you know, the experience.
You could also watch movies together.
You could create musicand play it for each other.
But the, the, one of the main, playtypes was dress up.
Yeah. So we ended up creating thousands.
And then you had to make surethat there were things that,
(13:45):
you know, the characters that are inspiredby Mattel would wear,
and also that you were not, you know,copying things that already existed.
You know, so it was a veryRight?
delicate dance,Delicate dance.
Not only that,but it was ultra structured.
So even though it was very creative,you know, it was,
we need another different kind of hairand we have 11.
(14:07):
Yeah.
That has to be significantly differentand then render it out.
I don't know,
so tiny. Yeah.
But then you could actually see it.
So it was, it was a lot of fun.It was a lot of work.
It was the - those were year long projects.
18-20 months.
So like making a movie.You were super connected
to have those types of opportunitiesbecause people don't normally get those.
(14:32):
They don't get exposed to thoseunless they're - No. It was - it was
a combination of, ofI think having a skillset
both as a person and then as a companythat was uncommon and then luck.
I mean, we you know, I ended up,Yeah.
Meeting the people at
Mattel because of who we were
(14:55):
or we had, we had createdor the company that I was with
had decided that we were going to open an L.A.,the L.A.
office because we were going to workin the movie industry.
That was our objective, right?Ok.
Because we had very long projectswith brands.
So we figured if we get movies are shorterand there's like more
per year, it was all planned out, we went there.Yeah.
(15:16):
There was a couple of movie projects,and they were for us,
the word disaster.
They - it was very differentfrom what we were used to doing. Yeah.
But in that process, we got to meet peoplethat were in that space
where they were doing, licensing.
Then we got introducedbecause of Hot Wheels to Mattel.
(15:37):
so completely random.Ah.
Is there an age group?
That was because I,
I did not play with this product.
I don't even know what this product isthat you were mentioning this
Barbie World.
So what age group were you guys targeting?
So this was mostly, so
(15:57):
we did that.
It was, it was
it was interesting because we did - we did the study, we did the field study.
We did like focus groups and interviewsand we had, you know, four year old girls
saying that Barbies were for babiesat like, literally Really?
still too young for me.
Five years oldand something like that in essence. Yeah.
(16:19):
So we thought, ‘We’re a little bitdisheartened.”
But when we let people play,we actually found that, you know,
it was more - it was a significant build.
And, you know, my girls were,
my oldest was 13 at the time.
11 when I started the game.
And she played it, I mean, yeahWell yeah that’s actually that's what girls were interested in.
(16:41):
And it had a little bit of whatsocial media offers today
because it allowed you to communicatewith people all over the world.
We actually had a chat systemthat, created.
We created the technology that allowed themost of - the first one - the first white -
normally when people filter for content,they're looking for things
we're not supposed to say.
(17:01):
So what we did is we actually lookedfor things that you could say. Oh yeah.
So the system only hada certain number of words.
It had a couple hundred wordsand some vocabulary.
And then certain combinations of the wordswere - were blacklisted.
but because we had -we had that we could translate them.
And so we actuallyhave a system where, I mean,
yearsand years ago, you can type in English
(17:23):
and you would get an accurate Frenchinterpretation.
And Barbie girls actually existedin seven countries, five languages.
so you were chatting with peopleall over the world,
and I think it created an interestingplay pattern.
Which is why,
you know, I think one of the pieces
that was interesting for Matteland for us at the time was that
(17:45):
that was a shift from just
I mean, before technologycame along, people in
that space were making objectsand toys, right?
They were making physical objects.
But then when you make things like this,you're actually working on play.
Not always.
That's where you start shiftingfrom play patterns, which may have a toy That’s right.
(18:08):
or not, to just being producers.So much psychology involved with it.
Yeah. Yeah, yeah. It was, it was yeah.Rarely.
But it was, it was an interesting,interesting endeavor.
So G.I. Joe was Hasbro, right?Yeah.
So not Mattel.
that's the competitor to it, but notreally because Barbie is turning girls. Yeah.
(18:30):
And then you also had, you know, Mattel,we didn't work on it.
They used our technology, but we didn'tdo the work specifically on it.
But they built something for Hot Wheels.
and then before that, we built a- a
another environmentfor Coca-Cola called CokeMusic,
which was in a virtual worldwith, you know, millions of users
that you could make music.
(18:51):
And it was titley under the cat codes.
What's the timeframe for this?
This is, I’m gonna get it wrong.
2000.Wow. Not that far. Not that long ago.
although I find it's interestingbecause a lot of,
you know, maybe a year,
maybe two years agowhen people were talking
about the Metaverse
and the Metaverse and the Metaverse, and the stores in the Metaverse.
(19:11):
Right.
Actually, show them that, you know,16 years ago when we opened the Walmart,
you know, in virtual space,this was before Second Life. Yeah.
For all that, you know,you could buy music
at a discountand virtual furniture for your room.
And, and you had readersand you had Walmart checkout counters.
So, yeah.Wow.
So it was a full, there was commercebecause you use the currency
(19:34):
that was under the cap of Colayou bought at the convenience store.
So, yeah,
You know, that's so incredible
because people will think that VirtualReality or Augmented Reality, it's like Yeah.
it's still cutting edge and everything,but it's been around for a long time. Oh yeah, now,
what we have now is we have the,
let's say, the fidelity of the experience is increasingly better.
(19:58):
Yeah.
You know, we - we have just for an example, I mean,
two years ago, we had a holographictheater that was oper - operating here
in Lake Nona,using Microsoft HoloLens as - as the platform.
It was great.I mean, it's an open space. Right.
You get to walk around following,you know, fantastic creatures.
(20:18):
You know, in this, like,great environment.
And it was a great experience. Yeah.
But then you try the Apple Vision Proand you see like their dinosaur demo
and it's like a complete leap.
Yeah, that was cool.
Yeah.
Complete leap.
In terms of the,of the fidelity of the experience.
And then, you know, you lookat the first examples of augmentation,
(20:42):
and you know, there were like three lines,you know, kind of vectors.
I remember in,
2004, in SIGGRAPH,
they had a device that actually projected,directly into your retinas.
You have to, you have to sign a release
for them to let you use it,and it actually augmented.
(21:03):
You got text, like so like thatno one else could see except you. Wow.
And you were not.
You were just writing,
something was on top of your eye.
Just projecting. Yeah.
Very Black Mirror moment and youuse it to like, you know, get data. Yeah, Black Mirror.
But you know, it's, it’s there.
It's just that it's a lot easier.
I know, the thing about Black Mirroris that,
(21:25):
it's very dark.
I think it paints a very, picturethat says.
“You know we need to pay attentionto what's going out there.”
And I'm pretty sure it's been aroundfor a really long time because,
like the internetand everything that we experience,
whether it was AR,VR and web and everything,
(21:45):
it was all done back in the, I think 50s,
by a bunch of scientist white guys. And,
you know, it was the Ivy League schoolsand they were creating all of this.
And here it is.
You know,we fast forward another 50, 60 years.
And you go, it'snow something that's out there.
But what is still,it always makes you go, “What's
going on in the back of the roomthat we don't know about?”
(22:06):
And I think that's where Black Mirrorkind of paints a picture that, Yeah.
Well, yeah, we tested it on these things.
It's just that people think it's just like,
oh no, that don’t never happened.
But probably it did.
Yeah, I think it - it paints a difference between
technologyand the use of - the use of technology. Yeah.
You know, when you go to,when you go to places like SIGGRAPH,
(22:29):
which is really a conference of peoplethat are working in computer graphics, Yeah.
it's universities and companiesworking on ideas
and for really, for the most part,not working with applications.
They're just showing you, “Hey,
we can make this thingthat makes you glove,
that makes you feel like you'regrasping something real,
but you're not.”Right.
(22:50):
There's like little actuators and thingsthat make you get this tactile feedback.
Yeah.
And then someone says“That it'll be great for robotic surgery.”
Or you want a build a video game. Yeah.
So that's, I think that's - that's - that
Black Mirror is morein the use of technology than
how it might be used by humans. Yeah.
Yeah I agree with - I agree with you.
(23:11):
Well what is, the the coolest innovationthat you've seen lately?
You’re exposed to so much out here.Hmmm, so,
Way more than what I see.
And I travel in a circle.
But what you guys have outhere is amazing.
So I'll tell you, I’ll tell you two thingsthat are very interesting.
One is we have, I've seen a lot of,
(23:36):
uses of models.
So machine learning and AI to actuallylook at diagnostic imaging and
that's been really incredible. X-rays, and MRIs. X-rays and MRIs.
But because the pattern recognition
mechanisms that you get out of modelscan be significantly more.
(23:56):
I mean, you're basically I think, getting
a really good person that interprets MRIs
every single time you're looking at itthat doesn't get tired, doesn't, Right.
So, you know, a friend of mine who doesthat was asking,
“So what would you preferwhen you prefer a doctor looking,
if you could only choose one a doctoror machine?” It’s like,
(24:19):
if I don't get to pick the doctor,a machine, I’ll have a machine read the MRI.
So the second, the second, let's callit invention is a set of technologies.
And it's the pieces that are making ita lot easier for people
to create without having to actually knowthe understanding of tools.
And this is somethingthat I've seen happen,
Transforming whole industriesover the span of my career.
(24:40):
When I started, it was the beginningof the desktop publishing revolution.
Right?
Which is, you know, late 80s of the Mac,come on in 84.
And suddenly you could actually createincredibly good looking documents,
you know, with a laser printer,you know, at a small studio or at home.
So something that required tensor hundreds of thousands
of dollars of equipment
(25:01):
before to create somethingthat looked professional
now was availablefor a lot of people.
And they kind of,democratized that piece.
And then the same thing happenedwith video.
You know, you had, you know,that was millions of dollars, of equipment Right.
that was required to record video, and then along comes,
you know, DVD, a format from Sony.
that was enoughgood quality to be able to create,
(25:22):
high quality content at the time.
And things like the Video Toaster,right, from NewTek
it was a devicethat actually allowed you to do,
a studio like a full,you know, video editing studio.
But it ran on an Amiga computer.Okay.
Which I don't know if you really remember anymore.
A device,No.
And then then you had After Effects,which was originally came from, Know that one.
(25:44):
which originally came froma company called CoSA, early on, and so the -
you were able to do things that requiredliteral million dollars of equipment.
I remember walking in with my Macinto a studio
to actually record an animationthat we've done,
and the guy was like,it's not going to work.
We have
I mean, the Silicon Graphics machine,again,
(26:04):
another brand that doesn't exist anymorethat's doing our animation
that connects to this deviceit’s hundreds of thousands of dollars.
You're coming here with a $3,000
equipmentand you're trying to connect to it.
It's not goinna work.
And then it's, you know,we were working with the same quality
and he sold everything and went to - to Mac.
I think
(26:25):
that was kind of like the basic tools.
But now we're in a situationwhere some of the basic skills
are, are available, and I think that it'sopening a completely different revolution.
You may have someone that has very strongmusical talent.
You have a very good beat, but in the pastthey've been, you know, kind of like
(26:46):
producers of sorts that are taking a loopand they're doing this and that. Right.
But it's not it'snot a good set of Crayolas for them to draw. Right.
And then with the advent of AI,you can actually through,
through direction, you can actually craftthings are new.
and like how, like it happenedwith desktop publishing
and with the desktop - with the desktopvideo revolution.
(27:09):
and you know, with us being ableto create content on our phones, Right.
the first wave is going to be a mishmash,right?
Right.
But suddenly you have people
that have incredibly compelling content,
you know, YouTube channelsthat they're doing with a webcam,
or at least they're workingwith a webcam on top of their computer.
Now they're doing it
in a multi-million-dollar studiothat makes it look like they're doing it
(27:31):
on the webcam on the computer.Right.
But - but, you know, we're goingto see the same with all the tools
that we have now from an art perspectiveto start the creation process.
So I'm excited. Yeah. Low code, no code?
Don’t have to go and learnthat you can just use this one platform. Yeah exactly.
Canva takes all the need for Adobe awayand anybody can be Or even if you haven't,
(27:52):
even if you use Adobe productstoday, the amount
of AI assistancethat you get doing things like,
you know, I paid for college schoolin New York, retouching pictures. Right.
You know, early Macsand a machine called Shima Seiki
where they paid, people paid hundreds of hours.
And all it didwas erase stuff from photos?
(28:14):
A lot of fashion. and then, you know,Yeah.
You go to
Photoshop today and you do, you know,Just like this.
you do one of their AI powered fills,and it's
better than the best workthat you're doing at the time. Yeah.
Yeah,Yeah.
So many things that have advancedso quickly.
You know, we take it for granted. Yeah.
(28:35):
Yeah. That's the funniest thing.
Um, panelists.
You've been a paneliston a lot - of a lot of things.
I'm really curious as to what was some of
your favorite discussion topics?Um, hmm...
I did one with, I did
one with,it was called the Power Source Summit.
it was with people from NASA.Oh that would be interesting.
(28:57):
And it was awesomebecause everyone on the panel,
we were talking about the future of cities.
And we had someone from,being from York Ingels Group.
we had I mean, I had peoplethat I actually look up to.
The panel, it was very humbling.Yeah.
But,
those are great becauseyou get to have a conversation with people Yeah.
that, you know, are doing workat the top of their game.
(29:20):
Yeah.
And you know, it's a good opportunity,you know?
So that was, that was, Memorable.
That was a memorable one, it was a fun one,just because the topic was one
that's of importanceto what I do here in Lake Nona.
But at the same time, the conversationwas with people that had experience Right.
doing what we do here,which is not that common.
(29:40):
Yeah, that would be cool.Yeah.
I know I went to Techonomy, and that was was out here, just coming back.
and that's where I also saw you
up on the stage when they were talkingYeah that was a good one too.
We actually had Orlando Innovators.
Panel that I, that I moderated.Yeah.
And it was great because it's, you know,
I always tell people, you know, meincluded,
(30:02):
I had a very different image for like,people have this Yeah.
preconceived notion that it isjust entertainment and don’t get me wrong.
it's fantastic entertainment.It’s not.
But that's, I like the,the slogan that we had before then.
Now it's Unbelievably Real. Yeah.
But before it was,“You Don’t Know The Half Of It.:
That's right.
And I think “you don't knowthe half of it.”
(30:22):
is a very good way of describingOrlando, because there's a whole half, Yes.
you don’t know, and I think a lot,a lot of that other half
is in what we do here.
in Lake Nona and what happens.
in you know, with UCFand you know this whole,
you know, creative ecosystemaround things like space and
(30:42):
simulation that people have no - no ideaexists.
You know I didn't know before I came.Yeah.
Yeah, there's Neo City you know,and they have semiconductors.
And then there'sall the things that you guys
are doing out here with Medical Cityand there's giants here. Yeah.
You know, many times when I come out,when I drive out here to, to,
to Lake Nona, I look at the massive sizeof the buildings
(31:05):
and it's, it's very,it takes me to Jurassic Park.
Honestly, every time I see it,I go, “This is like Jurassic Park.”
It looks so brewed.
It's so beautiful and everything.
Anyway, I bet they got dinosaurssomewhere around here.
If we do, I'm going to make surethat the counting algorithm
is actually countingthe complete number of dinosaurs. Right?
(31:26):
Not, not just looking forthe ones they thought they had.
That was the one part in the bookthat was really awesome. Yeah.
It's like it's the whole,the whole thing is they were counting.
They were looking for anx number of dinosaurs.
And then it's like, actually let's countthe ones that we have.
And they found they have more.
Yeah.
So hopefully we don't have,you know, spontaneous mutations in our.
(31:47):
dinosaurs doing that, yeah?Yeah.
That is something there. Okay.
We're going to change completely different,I know that you have a restaurant,
but what is a signature dishthat you can whip up effortlessly?
And people think that you're aculinary wiz? Uh, effortlessly?
effortlessly would have
to be ice creamjust because, you know, it's, Yum.
(32:09):
you know, it'syou put good stuff in, you freeze it.
Yeah.
You used to have to wait a lotfor the freezing.
Yeah, but now, You don’t have to hand crank it.
No, I have, I have both, you know,
the one with the KitchenAidand I have, a Ninja.
Ninja Creamy. Yeah.
I want the Taco Jet,which is a high end restaurant quality one.
Too expensiveand too big to put in the house.
(32:30):
but I make,I make interesting Carbonara.
I don't know what that is.
It's an Italian. Italian,a simple pasta.
It's like a
I think that the best thing to showpeople is, like, simple order
or simple food. I'm not a, I'm not a fancy,Yeah.
culinary.Culinary,
I like, you do, nice things.
(32:51):
Food ingredients with a twist.
I agree, I think that what I can dothat's really, really good
is make a good omelet or a frittatabecause it's like, just take what’s over
in that refrigerator.Well, omelets are what we test,
well, one of the thingswe test chefs with. My brother’s a chef.
He actually went to, a culinary school-A culinary school, the CIA in New York?
No, he went to French Culinary Institute.Oh.
(33:13):
We actually went to schoolat the same time in New York. Very nice.
Just a lot of fun to be around.
My brother and, yeah, He probably had really good food all the time.
Some of the time, yeah, we had - we were starving students,
So, so you know, for some.Okay.
Yeah. Yeah.
Well he could come home with food or.
Yes. Exactly, no no no he came -At least maybe he ate well.
he came home with food, that was interesting.
(33:35):
All right.
So we're going to take a momentand acknowledge our sponsor
and we'll be right back.
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So we're backto the second half of the show
(33:55):
where we talk about the future of jobsand industries in 2030.
What do you think2030 could possibly look like?
Because I think that with Covid,
nobody saw that comingand that changed everything about work. Yeah.
Then when we had,some other things that happened
AI, that changed everythingin the world of technology,
(34:15):
I think these types of big shiftsare happening more frequently.
and I don't think anybody's gonna,
They go, “Oh, no,I'm not going to see any cars flying”.
Like, well, we’re seeing cars fly.Yeah, yeah, comfortably in about three years.
Yeah, yeah, Yeah, we’ll have that.
And how did they handle flying carswith like there's no science.
(34:35):
There's no what are you doing?
You're following theroads off the - yeah. Software.
Yeah.
Um, so the world in 2030.
Yeah.
I think it's getting harder to predict,even if it's just five years.
Right.
Look, I think the things like Covidand things like.
AI are accelerants, right?Yeah.
(34:57):
They're not this.
I mean, I would guess AI does havesome incredible transformational,
pieces of it.
But I'll give you an example.
Before Covid, we already had about, about,
30% of people that worked from homeat least one day a week in Lake Nona.
Right, we - we do a survey.Right.
(35:18):
So we had this numberwhich was bigger. Today,
that's a - common place.
They actually people will judge jobs by saying,“Okay, what is
what is your job from home policy?”
Whereas if you had asked this questionpre-COVID
they would have been like “Are you nuts, you know,what do you mean don't work from home?”
Yeah.That would be like a special exception.
You have to like bring it up with HR.
(35:39):
And now it's like, okay, it's three daysin the office, two days at the office,
show up at the office,even though it's, I mean, whatever it is.
so those are - those were accelerants.Yeah.
They created a significantly betteradoption curve for technology.
I mean, video conference
and - and video based calling
is something that, like QR codes or somethingthat are used today. Right.
(36:02):
But you can go to babies and you can go
to, you know, you know,
y’know people that are,that are - that are completely disconnected
from technology, traditionally
As we think about itand they're completely conversant
in, in those technologies.
So we had a lot of acceleration.
(36:22):
AI is the first time I think,
that we’re having technology disrupt,
thought workers.
Right.
We've had technology disrupt peoplethat were working
through the mechanical pieces of the process,
right you have, you know, farm equipment,you have factories completely Right.
(36:43):
being disrupted.
You know,robots are automating different things.
So the stuff that that required our brainand our body,
right, but primarily requirethat we manipulate things
that has been disruptedtime and time again by technology.
It's the first timethat, you know, thought,
work is truly disrupted by technology.
(37:04):
You could guess that, you know, likecalculators initially, and the computers
had some level of thatwhere you were not relying on your
understanding of, let's say, core
math to be able to do thingsbecause in Excel it would do it for you.
And you know, you no longerhave to remember or look up how to do statistics.
You could just ask Excel,but this is a new level, right?
(37:26):
So I think there will be aRight.
reassessment of, the
stuff that we need for being a successful,professional or successful worker.
I know that you focus on work. So.
That's, that's that's I thinkthe areas, that I'm going towards, Yeah.
I think that for a long timepeople have been talking about skills
as opposed to careers.Uh-huh.
(37:48):
And I think this actually allows,
for the first time in some areas,to have skills, be something that It’s really a spotlight.
Traditionally, you know,traditionally like really, really valued
and when I - okay.My definition of skills is very different.
I think of there's tasks that you do in a job. Yeah.
(38:08):
There are
certifications that I would have that candemonstrate that I know something.
There's experienceof what I've done in there.
But competencies,those are - I call them power skills.
too, competencies are key.
That's research,time management, creativity. Without a doubt.
I mean the ability to write that out,And how do you measure those, right?
(38:29):
Yeah.I mean, I think that - that's what you want.
That's gonna be super interesting.
Oh, that is where - yeah.It's how you interact,
How do you interact with other peoplehow are you able to collaborate? Yeah.
Right.
Because those pieces are going to be,you know, because when you have a human
plus machine,you know, mind-melded together, right?
You're going to have very productive,very productive humans, right?
(38:51):
Hopefullywith like access to a variety of skills
that normally do not requirethat you have teams like
I used to be able to code
right? At some point in my life,I paid bills per project.
Because you were an artist.
And they were also there, very different, lots of right brain Yeah but,
It’s the same, it’s the same.
They are all here.If you think of it as -
(39:13):
It's, it's a - it's problem solving.
Okay?
It's just the toolset is different,but it's exactly the same. Uh-huh.
It's - it's, it's a problemsolving process.
You have a problem.
The problem can be,
Do you need,you know, an object to move in screen.
Do you need to code, or you need to be ableto connect to an Arduino
and have it do something, or do you want some,
(39:34):
You want a different colorand those require - it's a problem.
Yeah.
And then, you know, your ability
to understand colors and how to mix themeven if it's trial and error,
right?
Which is a method. Right.
Or, you know, being able to completelyunderstand how pigments actually will work
and react to each other.
If you're doing things like ceramics,which
you don't get to see the colorsuntil they're fully baked.
(39:57):
Those are -those are techniques, all of them.
And I,I see this as a - maybe it's reductive,
but I find everything as a problemsolving challenge.
How do I express feeling, right?I - I agree with I totally agree with you.
I mean, I'm a poetand I want to express, you know,
my
inconformity with, you know,natural selection
(40:21):
as a poet.
I have a problem and I have a skillwhich is, you know, I have verbs
and I have adjectives, and, you know,I weave them and I still think programing
is more challenging thenprobably using some of the other things
that I dobecause I took all of my electives
for art, I loved art,and I also loved science, but I - when I,
when I went and I was, I took some coursesin programing, I went, “This is hard.
(40:43):
This is like, you know, different.”
Well, thankfully it's so I saidI did it for a while.
and then I couldn't do it anymore.
It got to be complicated.
Okay. That makes me feel better.
It got to be quite complex.
And then, recently,I had to do something,
and normallyI would have just opened, like, you know,
gone online to look for some stuffand coded in something.
(41:07):
Python probably, or what I was doing, nowI just,
you know, go to ChatGPT and say, hey,
if I need to do this.
what language?
Okay, now that you have a languagestructure, it, doesn't think right.
fix it.
Okay now code it.
Did it four times and I had it,Hmmm.
(41:28):
so I can code in it.
And that's what I'm saying.
You're getting this little, assistive process. Right.
The bot is becoming, At least initially, you're going to have
assistants of sorts,or create- you're going to have additional staff.
Cause then you would see.
AI’s,
augmentation, now.Yeah.
(41:49):
And then,The ability to, create those chat bots
is something that I'm intrigued about.
And I wanted to, to learn more about that.
Is that something that you guysare doing out here?
We actually have two that we've built.
We're building one modelthat is actually specialized
in speaking Lake Nona’s, in Lake Nona language.
So we've continuously interactedwith it to the marketing team,
(42:13):
primarily to use language and descriptorsTrained it.
that talk about ,tell the story in our tone of voice.
So we've trained an existing model
to be significantly closer to what
how would we tell a story.
and that hasn’t been to complex,Yeah.
doing things as to be more detailedor look more realistic.
(42:38):
So, do you have a favorite robot
AI, augmented reality, virtual reality
Right now an augmented reality.
kind of like, I mean, AIis like - a big umbrella. Yeah.
So I'll skip that one.
But I actually believe that all of the
of the virtual augmented,
(42:58):
you know,all that's augmented is interesting.
And I've been trying to do a lot more.
So we've done, as I mentioned before,we did a holographic AR theater
with it -it was across the street from Boxi. Where was it?
Okay. It was like a ticket to Nevada.
You know, you could,you know, participate in these things.
Then we - we collaboratedwith, with an artist
(43:18):
and the city of Romeand Amsterdam called Faun.
And we actually have a link to realityposters throughout Lake Nona.
Cool.
And then next we're actually doing
a collaboration that will allow you toactually see the dollar in animated form.
So you're downloading an appand then you're using that app to be able
to see
This one will be on an app thatthat people already have,
because we're trying to - we're trying to do it
(43:39):
in the mechanismsthat people already have.
Okay.
But the reason I mentionedaugmented reality is because I believe
that the set of technologiesis interesting, not just glasses.
Right?
Like there's nothing that says that therecouldn't be a projector in the corner.
And when I do this I get a keyboard here.Right.
(44:01):
That's augmented reality, right?
This is realitythat is being augmented by technology, you know,
if we take a rock, right,something that looks like a rock
and we stick a speaker inside,and then we put a way for it
to actually have a way to playback music or playback stories.
And then you allow, you allow people
to knock on the rock,or you have a camera that recognizes people.
(44:24):
And the rock then starts tellingthe story, you’re augmented reality, right?
Because you're actually adding somethingto the built environment with technology.
So I think the, the
overarching concept of
augmentation is one that will be
it'll be the most interesting.
I think I put things like, for example,projection mapping.
(44:47):
Into that set of technologiesbecause, you know, when they do it Yeah.
at the Disney Castle or we do itacross the street at The Beacon,
those are pieces of architecture,that are reality and we’re augmenting it.
Have you seen this thing that's on Disney?
It's called, drain, Drain the Oceans.
And they go and they map the ocean floors,and then they pull back the water
(45:11):
so that you can see what's been buriedunderneath the water
or underneath, land,whether it was in, California.
They're scanning.They're scanning the ocean.
Yeah. Oh. That's awesome. I haven't seen it.
It's on, uh Disney.
We have one startup, well it's a large startup.
I really don’t know what that could mean to you.
But they're actually launchinga constellation of satellites
(45:31):
that actually meant to light up space,and they'll be able to, Yeah.
Is that
does thatmean there's going to be a planetarium
or are you just gonna see it through goggles?
No, this is just, there's a service.
So there's a company that already existscalled Planet that actually does,
scan the Earth
cameras technology.Right.
And now,
(45:52):
what we will do is we do it with Lidar.
So it will beit will be able to do it in 3D.
And Lidar has a very different wayof penetrating through
clouds and small foliage, shallowbodies of water and things like that.
So you're able to get a betterunderstanding of the world around you.
So it'll be interesting to see these daily,
(46:12):
you know, scans of of our planet.Yeah.
I'm sitting there thinking when,now I'm involved with OMG Labs and,
you know, and Indienomicon,I work with Kunal Patel, on
on those, those two are his companies,Indienomicon puts on
which, you well know,
we're going to be having a GameJam out here, one on the space, and right now.
(46:34):
Now I want to go to meet them becausewe're going to be a booth technology.
to do that.
Replication of whatit's like to be in space.
Oh, yeah.
So, you know, that would be coolthat they would be able to bring something
that I could just see it on the big screeninside a booth..
Yeah, that would be Yeah. That'd be something.
And then you have,
then you have, physical environmentslike the one that was built by,
(46:59):
by NASA, UCF.
And they have that Regolith centerwhere you're actually able
to interact with, moon dust, basically.
Ultrafine particles.Yeah.
So you can simulate what, you know,digging on the moon, I want to live here now.
I'm not kidding.
I want to go. I want to be here.It’s fun.
This is where I want to be.
All right. So,
(47:21):
the creator, Geoffrey Hinton,he created AI.
He is called the Godfather of AI.
And he was interviewed on 60 minutesback in October 8th of 2023.
he believes that one of the waysin which these systems of AI might escape,
is that they would be controlling
(47:42):
their own computer code to modify itself.
So it could, it could get hijacked.
he said,“That is something that we as human
humanity itself,we need to be seriously concerned about.”
I can see thatbecause we're creating something that
can - and we're training it
to be able to either,you know, duplicate code and do things.
(48:05):
And I’m going, have we not seen some of theTerminator movies, have they not seen,
what is it, 2001that's based on this and things like that. Yeah, I -
Okay.
In, in- in - I love sci fi.
I always read sci fi.Yeah.
and, you know, thatthe concept of, of technology gaining,
you know, the ability to - The ability to control.
(48:27):
either the ability to, to be self awareor even through no ability of being self-aware
but just by algorithmicallydeciding on things,
to, you know,have things that have a significant impact
on us on the planetis, something that has been there
even before we had any inkling of AI,as it - as it - as it exists today. Sure, right?
(48:49):
Yeah.
There's two things.
One, one side is that it's
it's almost, unavoidable.
The, the creation.I think -
Right. Right?
The only thing that you hopeis that the basis of that process
has some levels of resilience and controlthat allows it to be,
(49:13):
you know, primarily a force for good.
But it's like, you know,I put AI in the same
level as electricity, right? It is,
can be used for incredible stuff
and for nefarious purposes.
Right.
I mean,
I think it's a question of,of what people use it for.
(49:37):
Yes, I know I'm not I'm not lying awake.
as some people are with the ideathat, the AI will have
either a moment of self-awarenessor a decision by an algorithm
that says, “Hey, would be better offif humans weren’t polluting the planet.
so let's kill them.” Right? Kind of like
that type of situation.
Right?
(49:57):
It's, you know, I don't think.
I don't think we're there yet.
I think the safeguards to protect it are,
very complex because we
as humans, we're very goodat understanding certain things.
Right.Right.
But when you move outside of simple causeeffect environments,
(50:18):
significantly fewer people are ableto understand, you know, there's studies
that have been shown that, you know,we make incredibly poor decisions.
You know, if,
you know, compared to how data tells usthat we should make decisions. Right.
You know, the typical stuffis where it’s like, get a candy now or two later,
and what not so, the - I think there's
no there's no closing Pandora's box, right?No.
(50:40):
So the only thing that we can dois, is It’s here.
Okay, nowhow do we use the good part of it?
I think safeguards was the key word.
Safeguards. Be good stewards.Yeah, but also how you,
but how do we use the good parts of itto protect us from the bad parts? Yeah.
Because I think that's the one partthat's missing is that, yes, we've
gained a tremendous adversary,but we would also gain a tremendous ally
(51:04):
in the same process, which iswhat happened with The Doors Clause.
Right?
The government told us news release,you have both. Right. It’s Adam and Eve.
and if you were ableto pit them against each other.
Then you remain in balance.
So I think our ability to,of course there's a need for regulation.
Of course there's need for Ethics.
Ethics about that.
But - but it’s also embracing
(51:27):
the one side that can, you know,that can protect us from the other.
Yeah.Yes, yeah.
But I'm not lying awake about it.
No, I don't either.
But I do think about it
and I go, what are the organizationsthat are out there that are helping
to create those safeguardsto help people be good stewards, to
create accountability around the thingsthat are -. For the most part,
(51:48):
the people that can do thatare ill equipped,
It should bethe ones that are creating it. to do it.
And that's what I saidyou have to use what you have.
Maybe to use it as an adversary,because if we rely on even the most Yeah.
well-meaning members of a regulatory bodyor government,
you're going to be dealing withindividuals that have extreme, Alternate plans.
(52:10):
and extremely poor understandingof the technology for the most part.
Yeah.
Like they, like literally you have peoplethat don't understand something
regulating what they don't understand.
So I don't know, that - that's why I say,
you know, pour fire on both sides,see what happens.
Well you really hit a lotof the ethical dilemmas that were there.
So I don't know if there's anythingthat you want to add to it. No, okay.
(52:33):
But I think the, the one piece that I,at least we try is,
is transparency, right?
Which is I think this was done using AI.
or AI played a play in the - play in this,and this is an important one.
I think if someone wins an Academy Award,
you know, andhalf of the character came from the tool.
(52:56):
That doesn't take awaythe fact that they came up with him, that
it's their - their process and their - their system,so that - that should be part of the Yeah, and that’s still a person.
that should be part of the processand it should be, you know, it's
it's like in the beginning like,oh, that was donated.
A computer used to meanthat it was kind of like
so somehow people thought it was easieror cheating.
(53:16):
And it's just a tool. Yeah.
So I, usingAI right now has a kinda connontation, “Aaah.”
“It’s AI and what
did use to train the model?” And all that stuff, it will get resolved.
And then it will be like,
that's what your toolkit contains.
So yeah, the ethics is on transparency,
for me Yeah.
And those people that arethe naysayers are important also.
(53:39):
They serve a place where it createsdialog of course, for sure. Yeah.
Okay. Last question.
Well next to last question,what is the best mentoring advice
that you want to share with our listeners?
Look,
I think there is something to be saidabout
(54:01):
doing, right? That's part of tyinginto the first question,
which was the doers.
So I think we spend too much timein thought space.
in every part, in our careers,in a variety of different things.
I think finding an opportunityto do a little bit
of what you're saying,that you want to do or can do is critical.
(54:21):
So I would say good mentoring advicefor mentors and for mentees is,
let's find a small portion of thiswhere I can show that I can
or you can teach mehow, right? That part.
But on the - on something real,Yeah.
because I think that contact with realityhelps quite a bit.
I agree, and that's whythe value of like having Hackathons
(54:43):
and creating spaces like thisand all of these things that encourage, Exactly.
you to get out of, out of the spacethat you usually think in, out of the Yep.
actual environment, maybe aroundother people than challenges, right?
Yeah. So that's 100% there.
Hackathons are great because.
you're able to do somethingYeah.
(55:03):
hopefully that has some levelof functionality and works and
that shows you can do it.
I think every day of your careerhas been a Hackathon, whether they’re at Mattel, I wish.
and I’m sitting ther thinking, okay,that had to be like a giant Hackathon.
And then Ann Coco was like,
you know it still was The good thing is there was lots of people on the team.
Yeah. Right.
So there were, a lot of resources, yeah.There was a lot of resources, period.
(55:26):
We had a lot, we had a lot of incrediblytalented people.
That we work togetherto create those things. Yeah.
So that wasthat was, those were easier because you know,
So where should people look for youand how do they find Tavistock?
You knowtypically I give your LinkedIn.
LinkedIn is the easiest way.
(55:46):
you know, I have,
we have the Lake Nona,
website where it has a lot of informationabout what happens
in Lake Nona.
So I couldn't find that one.
But I did find a Tavistock development.
Yeah.
Tavistock development is a development company,but that's more, you know, construction.
Right. Right.
So what's the Lake Nona website? Just LakeNona.com?Just LakeNona.com.
(56:07):
LakeNona.com, and then, then LinkedIn,Perfect.
you know, my profile and,Juan Fernando Santos.
It's, I'm not,Okay.
That's all right. Well,I want to thank you so much.
This has been I always enjoythese conversations that I get to have No, thank you.
with people because normallywhen I come in and I first and went,
oh, I've got to go, I tell people,we got to go talk to this guy.
(56:28):
This is a place where we need to havemed -, you know, our mental health care.
And he goes, okay, let's go.
And it's been a pleasure having you here.And I’m glad you had me here.
I know I'm so excited.
So this podcast is going to come outthe week before we have it here.
And we're gonna having some little teasersand things like that.
But I want to upload it. Awesome.
Thank you very much.
Thank you. It's been delightful.
(56:49):
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