September 17, 2024 • 62 mins
I find Shannon Latimer to be such an interesting person, she is an educator, futurist, and creative powerhouse. In this compelling episode, we sit down with Shannon to explore the future of education and work in 2030. With a career journey that spans journalism, corporate communications, and teaching, Shannon shares how her diverse experiences have shaped her vision for integrating core academic courses with career-based learning opportunities. From enabling middle school students to embark on college courses to fostering real-world business collaborations for high schoolers, Shannon envisions an education system that equips students with the skills, confidence, and adaptability to thrive in an ever-evolving world. Her passion for connecting learning with real-world applications will leave listeners inspired to reimagine the classroom as a launchpad for lifelong success.
Shannon also delves into the transformative potential of generative AI. While she champions the efficiency and productivity AI offers, she doesn’t shy away from the ethical dilemmas these advancements pose, such as the importance of maintaining human connection and grappling with questions about robot autonomy. We discussed insights from AI pioneers like Geoffrey Hinton, she challenges listeners to think critically about the balance between innovation and ethics when using Gen AI. Shannon’s mentoring advice is a call to action: stay flexible, embrace lifelong learning, and be ready for the unexpected. This episode is a must-listen for anyone curious about the intersection of education, technology, and the future of work.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:08):
Welcome to The Intern Whisperer.
Our show is all about the future of work.
And you know,my name is Isabella Johnston.
I'm the host of The Intern Whisperer.
But my podcast is also brought to youby Employers 4 Change.
That's my startup.
And we help hiring teams reduce employerbias and increase diversity
based on head and heart.smart competencies.
So my guest today is Shannon Latimer,and I have known her for quite a while.
(00:32):
We're not going to call outyears, Shannon. Just so you know,
she's a senior
administrator in the Careerand Technical Education department
with Orange County Public Schoolsin Orlando, Florida.
She is an accomplished educational leaderwith more than ten years of experience
cultivating relationshipson a national, regional, and local level,
(00:53):
building community engagement,and strengthening partnership development
with communities, and improving career-related, school based programs.
I think she's a bit of a superherobecause I've seen her in action,
and her super - super powersinclude analytical problem solver,
experienced communicator,strategic thinker with strong
(01:14):
organizational skills that are focusedon building collaborative relationships.
So, welcome to the show.
And I don't know, thiswasn't a question for you,
but if you could be any superhero,who would you be?
Oh man, that's a good one.
I'd be Batman.
Batman, not Batgirl.
I’m not Batman I’d be, well, Bat-Person.
Bat-Person. Yeah. Thereyou go, Bat-Person.
(01:36):
Yeah.
Okay, so, tell us about yourselfusing only five words.
And you had told mecreative was your first one.
Why creative?
Oh, my.
I've been, I love to design.
I am a graphic artist,and since the sixth grade
I have enjoyed designing pages.
First it started with yearbook.
(01:57):
I enjoyed coloring,putting colors together.
So I, I look at myselfas being quite creative,
not only on the space of when it comesto graphic design, but also being
innovative, creative in the eventsand opportunities that I bring students.
That is very, very - and you know, kidslove to draw.
I don't - I can't think of any kidthat doesn't really love to draw.
(02:18):
They doodle.
That's drawing. They, yes it is. Yes it is.
Yeah I definitely - your second one was loyal.
Now why loyal?
I love it when people pick this wordbecause I think it's significant.
Well, I was - I'm right or die, I,
I have friends that I've had for - for numerous years.
I enjoy sticking with the companyand with people and seeing them grow.
(02:43):
So I'm, I consider myselfa very loyal person.
And that's rare, right?
Peoplebounce around from employer to employer.
I don't think that's wise anymore.
I don't think that's a luxury
you should do because I thinkthat it's harder to get jobs.
I agree, I agree.
I also think that sometimes
you have to sit back and think about, ‘Whyam I leaving? Why am I bouncing around?
(03:06):
What - what growth potentials are there?
What growth potentialshave you not voiced?’
Because I think a lot of peopledo not voice their,
their potential or, sometimes you have to create
opportunities for yourselves and some - and,and many times that is just voicing,
‘I'm interested in this.
I would like to do this.
(03:27):
I want to learn more about this.’
So career goals. Yep.
So career goals. Yep.
Precise.
Why precise?
I'm a stickler to detail,
I think that's a good thing.
Yes, it - I hope so,but it does help me, stay organized.
But also, again, when it comesto, designing,
you know, I - everything has to be lined up.
(03:50):
Everything has to be.
Everything has a place. Yeah.
I learned something from workingwith graphic design students.
And, you know, they're snapping the grid,making sure everything's there.
And it's so funnybecause I've had, students
work on my website and all of them, will
they come in not thinking like a team.
(04:11):
And I'm sure you experience this.
They design as an individual.
But, when I say, okay, ‘You know,make sure all the font is the same size.’,
then it becomes a different exercisebecause they don't teach Yes.
that necessarily in school to work with a
team
to ensure quality,like you said, attention to detail, you -
(04:31):
there's individual attention to detailand then there's group individual detail.
Very true. Yeah.
Positive.
I think you're extremely positive.
I would have saidthis is the first word to describe you.
So why do you say that?
I like to look at the glass half full.
I like to look at peopleand opportunities.
(04:54):
Again, I don't look at thingsas, being negative.
So I, I and also,I will also tell you several of my friends
and coworkers have said, ‘Oh,Shannon, you're the positive
bee in the room.’
Oh, case in point, I think we had to,a group of us
had to drive to Titusville,and everybody was complaining.
The first thing I said was, ‘Hey,at least we don't have to walk.
(05:16):
Let's look on the positive side of things.’
No, but, I believe it is,Yeah.
you know, takes as much energyto be positive to negative.
And so I rather be the sunshinein the room and then - instead of the cloud.
I like that one.
I like that a lot.
So let me ask you another question then.
‘Rather be the sunshine.’
I'm taking notes here because you havesome really good zingers here. Oh,
(05:39):
Yeah.
If - I like to be positive, too.
But I also like looking for thingsthat are wrong
because it allows,to put them back into order.
And do you do that?
I'm not sure I would look at itas seeing that they're wrong,
but looking at the opportunity, yes.How it can be done better. How it could be done better?
(06:02):
Because I believe everythingcan be done - done better, everything. Absolutely.
Case in point.So you just corrected what I was saying.
So you made it betterinstead of being a negative.
That was good.
Really good.
Okay. So your last one is adventure.
Adventurous? Why?Yes.
I like to try new things.
I like to travel.
I like to - new experiences.
(06:23):
New food.
So, adventurous.
What kind of new food have you tried?
Oh my.
Lately, I will tell youI am a HelloFresh person. Okay.
And anything that they send I am game
That's the box, right?to try it.
That's the box.Okay.
I love it, love it love it.
So different cultural foods, have I had tha-
(06:47):
But I try, lightly.
There is a -Do they have ramen?
I think they do.
Not in the package.
Like real ramen. And I, I'm going to
tell you, ok.You know what, I'm not sure, I’ll have- I will, I’m not sure.
So don’t hold me to that one.
I would have to
look at their, look at their selectionsand see if they have the ramen.
So what's the best thing that you hadfrom HelloFresh?
(07:08):
Oh my goodness,that's a tough one because they do
an excellent chicken rice bowl.
And then there's also this rosemary
chicken within cranberry sauce. Yum.
That's fabulous though.
I haven't tried their food.
So I've seen a lot of those things outthere.
(07:30):
And I sit and I think, ‘DoI want to do that?’
Because I really likegoing to the grocery store.
Do you find it more convenient to have itjust there and it's ready for you?
I do, when I was - I don't wannatell my age, but when I was younger.
Yeah. Going to the grocery store, I enjoyed.
Now that I'm a little busierand my mother does live with me.
(07:51):
So we decide to do the HelloFresh and,she does most of our grocery shopping.
So now that it is,it's just so convenient.
And again, it has
HelloFresh has exposed me to severaldifferent new recipes that I myself
would have never tried out or,you know, tried to cook, cous-cous, quinoa.
(08:12):
I love it Oh yeah, super good.
And I would not have even thought
about buying those and cooking themif it wasn't for HelloFresh.
So for me, HelloFresh is a new experience.
Have you had ramen, like real ramen?
No, I have not.
Okay, so I'm going to propose that - I don'tknow what you're doing after the show,
but there is a really goodramen place, really good.
(08:34):
And it's downtown Orlando.
Jinya.
Ok -what is it called?
J I n y a, it's a chain.
actually. It is some of the best - onceI had that - that real ramen I went,
‘I will never eat anythingout of a container or in an a package.’ Yes.
Like,
It was noodles. Never again. Never.Okay.
(08:55):
It is so incredibly good,that one is a really, really good one.
There's also, I don't know, what's yourfavorite cuisine that you would- Mexican.
Mexican.
Do you have a favorite restaurant too?
We're going to give shoutoutsto some of them. I do.
Let's see here.
Now it's interesting
because one of my favorite restaurantshappens to be Maggiano's.
(09:16):
An Itallian - I don’t know where that is.
Oh my goodness, it's in Port Orlando.
I used to live in Dallas, and Imade a list of all my favorite restaurants Wow.
to make sure they were here,and Maggiano's was one, thank goodness.
Where are they located?Point Orlando.
Point Orlando, I
don't even know whereDown there by, and off International Drive.
Okay, okay, okay. Yeah.
(09:38):
Well that's good.
That's a chain.
But, the ramen place is a chain also.
But there's this, local mom and pop
Italian restaurantthat's also right off of Primrose.
I think it is Primrose.Okay.
And they,
they give you more food than Olive Garden.
Okay?
And it's all, you know,it tastes very homemade.
(10:01):
It is really, really good.
And I would say that one was pretty,pretty good.
And then there's been,a Brazilian restaurant I cri - tried
on, I-Drive, very good.Oh.
I do, reviews. Yelp reviews.
Do you do that? I do not.
You know, they have somethingbecause you're adventuresome with food.
You might consider doing Yelp reviewsalso because they give you some more perks
(10:26):
when you do it.
I’ll think about it.You don't get paid, but, you know, you get
You, get to eat at some places for
free. Hey I’ll have to look into as well.
But as far as my favorite restaurant,I do love Uncle Julio’s, which is awesome,
that one is also off of I-Drive and again, it was one of I haven’t heard of that one either.
my favorites when I lived in Dallas,so I was happy when it came - What kind of food?
(10:46):
It's Mexican.
Wow. Okay, well, new places for me to trybecause I like Mexican.
If there's tamales,if there's tamales, I'm all over it.
Or a really good -
there's a chunky guacamole that,
can you tell I'm hungry? Yeah.I can tell.
Okay. Yeah.
Anyway, chunkyguacamole is better than the smooth ones,
so.Yeah I agree.
(11:08):
All right,so we went through these good words
and I think that was significant.
Where does your career path start?
Was it in college and high school?
You know you can start wherever we getabout 15 minutes on this one. Ok.
So - and then - how did you become - to bea senior administrator?
Okay.
Well, I'm going to tell you my careerpath started in the seventh grade.
(11:30):
What?I know, amazing.
You know, those teachersare so instrumental in our lives.
I had an English teacher
who told me, or suggested,encouraged me to try out for the yearbook.
Never in a million years.
would I - would have thoughtabout yearbook in middle school?
My grandfather was a computer programmer.
(11:51):
I was a grandfather's girl.
So I always said, I'mgoing to be like my granddaddy.
I'm going to go into computer science.
Well, after my English teacherencouraged me to go,
MRs. Thomas,she encouraged me to go into journalism.
Well, the yearbook staff, I loved it.
I loved the writing.
I loved making sure that, I saw itas my calling to make sure everyone
(12:13):
in our school, the popular, the non-popular, sixth grade, eighth grade,
everyone was represented in our yearbook,I love that.
And so, seventh gradeI became the editor.
Okay.
And then eighth grade,I was also - no at seventh grade.
I was co-editor, eighth gradeI was edito - solo editor.
And then, going to high schoolmy ninth grade year,
(12:35):
I was the first ninth grader
ever allowed on our high school yearbookstaff. Wow.
I know, and, that really paved the way
or led me to want to become a journalist
to go into magazinepublication, newspaper publication.
I guess I'm telling my agebecause I said newspaper publication.
(12:57):
Well, they still have newspapers. Hello.
There is the Wall Street Journal and NewYork Times, so yeah, they're still there. Yeah that’s true.
You're right, you're right.
So from seventh grade, I knewI wanted to be in the journalism world.
But again, as I mentioned,you know, going to high school and,
I worked my way up to, I was the firstjunior editor of our yearbook,
(13:17):
as well as the first blackeditor of my high school yearbook
and the first two-time editor, becauseI was editor my junior and my senior year.
So I say all that to say
yes, I went to University of Floridaand majored in.
Okay. Journal - yes.
I majored in journalism and communicationswith a focus on magazine publication.
(13:38):
And so I got a chance to work for,
a couple of newspapersin, in Gainesville.
I worked for, what was the name of the magazine?
The blue magazine?
Florida Blue?
Can’t even remember the - how long it was ago.
I went to University of Florida.
I should know this one, too.I know.
But you know what, I - I don't.Yeah.
(13:58):
So I spent one, one yearworking on the magazine at, at UF.
And then after UF,I worked for a small newspaper
in Delawareas well as a small newspaper in Indiana.
So what did you do there?
My first job, I was a copy editor.
Okay.
And I'll tell you, many people,most people going into journalism
(14:18):
want to be in broadcastor want to be the, the reporter, again
I’m precise and I want to make things better.
So I, my dream was to be a copy editor.
Okay.
So what is a copy editorand why do they call it copy editor?
It sounds likeall you're doing is copying.
Well, you take the copyand the copy is the written word
(14:39):
produced by the reporter, and we edit it.
We approve it, we write the headlines, we,Oh.
at that timewe did the page design for the newspaper.
And so we are the behind the scenes,I would say the wonder maker,
because we make everythingflow and, you know, look, look good.
(15:01):
You know, I'm now seeing the reasonwhy you picked all of those words, precise,
You know, you said detail and like,let me go back
and look at these really quick herebecause you said creative. Yes.
That's checking that box.
Precise, positive. Yes.
I can see all of these wordsin this career path that you have taken.
Yeah.
(15:21):
Again, so, where was I?
Oh, yeah. So, yeah,
so I wanted to be a copy editor.
And also at that time, there were morepeople who wanted to be a reporter
and not as many who wanted to be copyeditors.
We were in great demand.
We were.
So, graduating from UF in May.
I already hada job lined up in February.
(15:44):
So as I mentioned, I went to Delaware.
I only spent six months thereand went on to, small newspaper,
Fort Wayne, Indiana,and spent a year and eight months there.
First time I ever seen snow
Wow. is when I lived in Indiana.
And then after that, after,the worst summer.
No, the worst winter they ever had
(16:05):
and seven years.
I said ‘Okay, this Florida girlneeds to get back to South.’
So then I accepted a job at,Shreveport, Louisiana.
Okay.
Spent two wonderful years there.
Food was wonderful.
And about that time, however, things were changing.
The internet was coming on board.
Well, unfortunately, no one knewexactly what to do with the internet.
(16:27):
Kinda like AI,Yeah.
Yes, yes.
And, there were not many copyeditors and page designers,
so I was workingseven days a week, six days a week,
very, very long hours,putting on a lot of weight.
And I just started to think, ‘Is thisreally what I want my life to be like?’
(16:48):
And so at 25,I decided to leave newspapers
and got into corporate communicationsand moved to Dallas
and work for JCPenney'scorporate headquarters.
Okay, that's a big jump, really big jump.
Gosh, okay, this sounds very exciting.
So now you go from retail industry
(17:09):
to - Well, I spent 14 wonderful years.
Well about 13 years, and maybe eight monthsor so with JCPenney's.
I worked with a corporate communications,worked with their advertising department,
catalog advertising department.
And so enjoy the first,
(17:30):
I would say 11 years, the lastthree years were very difficult.
We had a new CEO and every six months
or so we would have a layoff,a round of layoffs.
I made it for three years,but I kept seeing my friends leave and Wow.
our department shrunk.
Yeah,But the work didn't really shrink.
(17:51):
Right. So it was.
Was it going more, why - why do you thinkthat was happening at that time?
Well, our new CEO, Was it buying things online, or?
Well, I'm not sur - I don't think that was really it.
It was just a different mindsetfor our new CEO.
He thought wecould do more with less.
(18:13):
And, however, I would just say that
Penny’s went from
maybe a stock price
of, you know, 75, $80 to $7.
Wow. Yes, it was.
Was this, was Sears going under?
I mean, Penney's is still around.
And I mean, Sears went down.
It did, but Penney's, got rid of that CEO.Okay,
(18:37):
Good for them.
It started to, improve.
But, but it was an eye opener for me.
Yeah.
It taught me a lot of lessons.
My - my time.
My end time,I should say there, because while
I was at JCPenney's, I did get my mastersfrom Baylor University.
(18:58):
That's a great school.Exec -
Thank you.
Executive program.
I learned a lot.
It was amazing.
Being in the classroom with, you know,
division heads
and, you know, vi - vi - a companyvice president.
So it was really,really an eye opener for me.
Coming from the journalism creative sideand really to see what it takes
(19:22):
to build a business,to make a business successful,
the PNL reports, you know, get ahead, you know,being on the creative side, you know. Yeah. No.
So, that experiencewas truly phenomenal for me.
It was an eye opener.
And it also encouraged meto, was one of the things
that encouraged meto start a graphic design business.
(19:44):
I can't take all the creditbecause for my, sorority, I would do,
I would design our fundraiserbooklets, program booklets.
We would have debutantes,and I would do their booklets and one day,
a sor - a sorority member came up to me
and said, ‘I want you to design my weddinginvitations.’
Nice.
(20:04):
And I said, ‘I don't do that.’
She says, ‘If you can do this.’
Pointing to the debutante book, he says,‘You can do my wedding invitations.’
And she would not take no for an answer.
No, she had the reason,she already anticipated
you saying no.
She said, ‘Well, if you could do this,of course you can.’
I'm curious, what was your sorority?Yes.
Alpha KappaAlpha Sorority Incorporated. Okay.
I was in, a Greek system also.
(20:26):
Yeah.
So, that experiencefrom doing her wedding,
which was one of -the talk of the town in Dallas
at the time.I did everything related to paper.
So, you know, she had a brochure,
she had, napkins, you name it.
I did it for her,she had posters and of cour - and word of mouth.
(20:50):
‘Oh, I want you to do my wedding Shannon.
Oh, I'm having a baby shower.’
And that's how my graphicdesign business started.
And then I worked for an eclipse magazinesand some - a couple of other smaller
local magazines at the time,consistently working with JCPenney.
So those were always side gigs for me.
And, but yeah, so
(21:11):
when the - when it was time for my layoff,because we were all sitting around
just waiting for it to happen,I wasn't sure what I was going to do.
So again, one lesson that taught me
I was there forthree years watching all these layoffs.
I should have had a plan in place. Yeah.
So that taught me to have planB, plan C, plan D ready.
(21:35):
But it also let me know that my,my grandfather taught me
when you start working,and he says make sure you invest
invest in your401K, invest in yourself.
So I - and so I got a financial plannerat the age of 22.
And I was single with no children.
And when my layoff came and -
(21:55):
Wait, all of this took place before you were 20 -
No - okay.No no no no no. No no not yet.
Wow. Yeah.Not working, yet.
No I worked at Penney's for 14 years.
So of course there’s that pre-planning.Oh, okay.
So my first job in Delaware,I was already,
you know, investing,and saving and investing, yes. Saving.
And so when I was laid off,I talked to my financial planner
(22:15):
and he told me, ‘So, Shannon,you're in a good financial position.
If you would like to not work
for the next, you know, 3 to 4 years, we,Whoa
Yes, I did say that. That was a lot of money for filing away, wow.
And I'll tell you,I made a pretty good penny at JCPenney.
No pun intended. It was, it - it was.
(22:36):
And that's one.
I'd also say that was another lesson,because I did not want to leave that job
because of the amount of moneyI was making at that time.
While I say I was adventurous,I was still too scared to step out.
And so, many times I had a pastortell me that,
Go-, ‘You may not be ready to go,but God will push you.’
(23:00):
And God’ll make youThat’s true.
- make it tight where you areso you can get where you ought to be.
And we had that squeeze at Penney’s
and being let go,it was a little devastating.
But also it was a little freeing as well.
Yeah.
And again I look at all my past blessings
because my grandfather told me to invest.
(23:23):
So I had the financial meansthat I didn't have to worry. Yeah.
I didn't have to take just any job.
But also our layoff packagewas phenomenal.
I got laid off in April.
I still got a paycheck till December.
Wow. Yeah, I don't know.
I guess that might happen with somecompanies, but that's again, that's rare. Yes.
(23:44):
Again, yes, yes, yes.
So that gave me some timeto continue to work on my business
and try and figure outexactly what I wanted to do.
And during that I did applyfor several positions within the
Dallas-Fortworth area, because I thoughtthat's where I wanted to stay.
But more and more, I wasn't sure if Iwanted to stay within corporate America.
And then, my mother and my auntand I, we took a trip
(24:08):
and we went to New York,
and my mother and I told herone of my past dreams.
I wanted to teach,
because I alwaysfelt like I had something to give back.
And I always wantedto give back to students.
I got into journalismto give underrepresented people
at that time in we weren’t called underrepresentedpeople it was just people who look
(24:29):
and sound like me. Right.
Didn't have a voice,whether it was African American
where, because I went to a schoolthat was predominantly white
and several of my classes,I was the only black kid in the class. Wow.
And so Did you have a scholarship?
To UF?
Yeah.I did, and that's a story in itself, too.
I kind of figured you didjust because I'm going,
(24:50):
‘Listen, you know,this is a woman who's really driven.
I'm pretty sure she had a scholarship,and I don't think it was just one.’
I think it was like, I'm going.‘She was in a sorority.
I was in a sorority.
They're not cheap.So she had a ride there.’
I was very blessed in that
my entire undergrad waswas paid for by scholarships.
And yes it wasYeah.
(25:11):
Yes it was. But,
I'm forgot what you were talking about.
Okay.
So you were wanting,you got into journalism
to give underrepresentedpeople like yourself?
Yes, a voice.
Yeah.
You know, to be recognized,given the voice.
And so, what better way
to help peoplefind their own voice but in education?
(25:32):
And so, my mother.
So I told my mother, you know, I said,‘I want to teach college one day, but not now.’
And I said, ‘I'll do that later in life.’
And my mother looked at meand she says, ‘Shannon this is your
later in life.’, because at that timeI was 38, 39 years old.
Yeah. So she says, yes.Oh, wake up call.
You know, she said,‘You been working for 20 some odd years.’
(25:53):
She says, ‘Give it a try.’
So I decided
on a whim, kid you not, to sell my house
and, in Dallas because I asked God,
‘What is itthat's going to make me just take any job?’
And it was my mortgage.
(26:13):
And again, one of my grad school
professors would tell us, you know,during my MBA time, he would tell us,
‘You got to take your emotionsout of your financial decisions.’
And if I didn't walk awaywith anything else out of grad school,
that was probably one of the most profoundthings ever.
And so, I had to take the emotion out.
(26:36):
So I sold - put my house on the market.
I figured it would sell in six months.
It sold in four days.
So I had to make some quick decisions.
‘What am I going to do?’
And so, what do they say?
You can always go back home.
Yeah.
So I said, ‘Okay, I must go home again.’
And of course, coming home to Floridawas only supposed to be a pit stop.
(27:00):
It was only supposed to be for four years.
And I will also tell you that for
since I was in the seventh grade,I was a planner.
I'm gonna do this.
I’m gonna do that. I’m gonna do this.
I'mma do that
During that layoff time,
I said, ‘Okay, God,I had planned absolutely everything
and it has not come,as I thought it would be.’ Right?
(27:21):
I - said so, ‘I'mma let go of the reinsand I'm gonna let you do me.’
I'm gonna let you do.
Yeah.
CauseI've been trying to control so many things.
And so I was with my mother,who was an interior design
teacher in high school, and,we bumped into her principal.
And her principal happenedto be my assistant principal
(27:43):
when I was in high school. Okay.
And so when I was in high school,I was also class president all four years.
And so,Not surprised.
So Mr.
Lundquist and I would do the morningannouncements together.
So he says, ‘Latimer, what are you doing?’
So I told them that I was - had my graphic design business.
But I was in between jobs.
He says ‘You need to bea substitute teacher for me.’
(28:06):
I was like, ‘Oh no,’
but sometimes you have to say, why not?
Yeah., and that's exactly what I said.
After a couple of weeks, ‘ said, ’Why not?’
So he had again, good people in your life,
made surethat I became a substitute teacher.
I did that for three months.
And then, English teacher.
When - it was at Oviedo High School.Which school was it?
(28:28):
That's a good school too. Yes, yes.
And an English teacherwent out on maternity leave and
Mr. Lundquist, which was, I find outnow that that was his, his plan
all along was to have me take overthat class and I
apparently did a good job.
And so when Winter SpringsHigh School was starting a new
(28:48):
program, Hospitality and Tourism, Mr. Lundquist
recommended me for the position.
And, so I got the position to teach hospitality tourism
I was the only hospitalitytourism teacher in Seminole County,
and, that's how I got into education.
That is a very cool story.
I was an English teacher.
(29:09):
I think I told you that, yeah.Yes you did.
So we - we sh -
It's probably why I like you so much.
Yeah, I, I don't think I was very good
in, in art, but I would never -every single one of my electives was art.
So I sit hereand I go, as you've been talking
and just sharing so much about your storyIw ent, ‘Wow, no wonder I really like her.
We have so much in common.’
(29:32):
We do.
I think that you, were really brave to douh, are you an only child? Y’know?
I am not.
Now I'm the oldest of four. Okay.
That's interesting.
So you're -
you've been the one that's been leadingthe way for the other kids, then? Yes.
Yep. Very cool.
So now, how did you get to the county?
Oh that's another, that's a good story.
(29:53):
Well, as a first year teacher and teachinghospitality and tourism,
and being the only hospitalitytourism teacher in
or in Seminole County, I had a wonderful,wonderful district liaison.
Her name was Colleen Brown.
And she suggested, ‘You know what?
You got to know.
You know your strengthsand you know your faults, right?’
(30:14):
She would say ‘She's a Shannon.
I don't know anythingabout hospitality tourism
because we have not had that program,but I know who does.’
So she connected mewith some wonderful people at OCPS
because OSCPS has had the programfor a number of years.
So they welcomed me inand we would have teacher
professional development,with the Orange County teachers.
(30:34):
And so Orange County was impressed
with what I was doing in the classroomin Seminole County.
And, my mentor, Pat Breedin.
her boss,she was the - our Orange County district liason
for hospitality,or at that time, the, program director
(30:57):
and her boss, the director of careertechnical education
of OCPS asked her, ‘When you retire -
When she retired,who would she like to replace her?’
And I was one of the namesthat she recommended.
So she had me come and meet her boss.
And he, like, ‘I like her, I like her.’
So when the opportunity presented itself,they offered me a position
(31:18):
to come work with them
In Orange County.
So I remember when you came over
to Starter Studio's office,and that's where I first met you.
I honestly can't rememberwho you were with, but I'm sure you do,
because you've mentioned first and lastnames of every single body in your life.
I believe I was with, Laine Powell.
(31:41):
I think I was withYeah.
Tech Sassy Girlz Doctor Laine Powell. Yes.
She is a sorority, sister of mine.
But wait it was somebody else that spokethat, taught at the county level.
She wasn't there. It must - it must have been Pat Breedin
then, it had to have been.It had to have been.
That name doesn’t sound familiar to me.
Yeah, but I'm going to go with it's, I knowLane Powell, I know Doctor Powell yeah.
(32:04):
Wow, yeah.So that was, well yeah.
So that's how I got into education.
And then againthat's how I got into the district.
Did Orange County Public Schools, to help
our career technical educationinstructors build their programs,
connecting them with business partners,because that was
one of the things that I didin Seminole County.
(32:26):
I told the students from day one,‘I'm not an instructor.
I was not trained to be a teacher,but I know how to manage people.’
And so therefore I told themI'm going to look at them as my trainees.
And I was going to be their chief,their CEO, their chief education officer.
So we worked togetherto create their educational experiences.
(32:50):
And we,
went on
industry site visits because I refusedto call them field trips.
Yeah, we did, and the site visits, we had guest speakers.
We worked on projects.
We,
we volunteered with the theater group
(33:11):
and the students became the, the,the, the greeters.
And they passed out,you know, things we, worked
with the football teamto plan their football banquet.
So we tried to incorporate business
customer service concepts and ideas,with the students.
(33:33):
And then - and then my second year, I,became the yearbook advisor. Wow.
And I will tell you, You love that.
I did, yes I did.It came full circle for you.
Yes, I did, and I will tell youif - if I could have,
my last job in education,I would love to be a yearbook advisor.
You mean again? I would.
(33:53):
I would.
You would leave this positionwhere you have so much authority
and you can change lives like this?
I mean, you know,maybe as one of my my last jobs.
Easing out the door because the plan is tohave someone come behind me and continue
the job that I'm doing with OCPS in careertechnical education.
(34:14):
Because you're right.
I do love my current job.
Yeah, It gives me the opportunity to - to expose students
to careers and opportunitiesthat they would have never thought of.
Yeah.
Also, it allows me to see students
do thingsthey never thought they could do.
Several timeswhen we've had our pitch competitions
(34:37):
and when we've hadour culinary competition
and these studentsare making masterpieces in front of,
you know, professionals and they arein awe like, ‘Oh my goodness, I did this.
Oh my goodness, I got a third place.’
You know,just being able to accomplish it Yeah.
and see the joy
and the sense of accomplishmentis, is amazing.
(35:00):
It really is. You know,Yeah.
I agree,
I've had those moments toI taught seventh, ninth
and 10th grade Englishand they're going to the graduation.
And I would be, you know,English teachers had all of this authority
where we could.
we were the only ones that could say,
‘Okay we're going to let you skip an abilitylevel.’
(35:20):
You could go from being at riskto base, well, to standard, to honors, like,
you know, we were the ones that signed upand there was this one kid.
I know you'll appreciate this story.
First gen from Indiahad been put in the basic classes
because they didn't know English as well,even though they were in ESOL.
(35:42):
Asked if they could move upto the standard classes, and I went,
‘Okay,so you got to get through this semester
and you're going to have to make surethat you make an A no less than a B.
If you do that, then yes, I'll sign offand I'll switch you over this semester
so you could go to the next ability level.’
He worked so hard, so incredibly hard.
(36:03):
He got to move.
And then apparently hehe understood how to use the system.
He asked his standard teacherif he could do that move to honors.
And he did.
And so, I had him in 10th grade.
In 11th grade, he was over in honors,
and I did not know this,and I did not see him until graduation.
And he came to find me and he said, ‘I justwant you to know, because you did this.
(36:28):
I am the first generationgraduating with honors
from a, you know, an American schooland all of this.
And because you believed in me.’
And I have a lot of those stories.
I'm sure you do, too.
And we know we have so much powerand we can change one person's
life in a big way.
Yes. You do. Yes you do.
Teachers do. Yes you do.
You not only gave him a chance,
(36:49):
but you also taught himthe value of advocating for himself. Yep.
And negotiating.
And that is key.Everything.
Yes. Yeah. Advocating for himself.
You're absolutely right.
Okay, so what would a perfect
life look like for you? Oh,
well, I
would say, to have the timeand the money to explore
(37:10):
my passions and my strengths,
as well as, I'm a huge sports fan.
Okay.
So one of the thingsI would, I love football. What kind of sports?
Okay.
Well basketball, track and field,I'm getting into volleyball now.
My niece plays volleyball.Okay.
(37:31):
So yes, I want to,
told studentsI want to be a professional fan.
Okay.
All right, all right.
So, so you know, those tickets to going tothe Orlando Magic are expensive.
I know now that they start winning, butthat's the importance again of investing.
Yes, it is, because now you can goand buy those tickets and be able to go.
(37:54):
I can sit in a box if I want to.
That’s right. Yeah.
I don’t know,
you know you might go back to themand go and negotiate because, you know,
they might need some graphic designor some,
some of the services that you provide.
And you could come in and say, you know,‘I'm going to be your biggest fan.
Let me tell you what,I think you should do.’
‘And it will only costThat’s one thing -
(38:14):
you a season of tickets.’
You know what, I love that idea.
I can edit it, make sure their programbook links are, you know, error free.
Yes, I'm sure you can.
All right, well,I think that sounds like a lot of fun.
What is your favorite bookthat you believe everyone should read
and will help them to be better?
(38:35):
I'd say To Kill A Mockingbird.
Okay.
That's like a really kind of a dark book.
But why? I’d say that because To Kill A Mockingbird
makes people confront one thing, right?
Their prejudice,
it makes them dealwith their moral compass.
(38:55):
It also hopefully, encourages empathy -
empathy,
makes you think about your fellow man,
helping you to see someonewho's not like you.
But to see them
as you are, you know.
Yeah.
I think it's a big deal for people
(39:18):
to be seen and heardbecause our world is fast.
You know those reels,everything on social media.
It's like secondswe only read headlines we don't read.
We don't do stuff and we don't slow down.
So making sure somebody feels seen
and heard is a really big gift,And valued.
Yeah.
No matter what station of life you are,you are valued.
(39:41):
And I think To Kill A Mockingbird,does that.
Also, I am a big history buff,and I do believe if you do not
pay attention to the past,
if you don't learn from the past,you are doomed to repeat it.
So, it's a good history lesson
on how, poor people
(40:02):
thought of and dealt with
in the quote unquote system
and, you know, justice system.
So hope it leads,
I hope by readingthe book will lead to personal growth
and enhance critical thinking on people.
And that’s how I really think To Kill A Mockingbird
(40:25):
can help make people better.
Yeah.
This is a really good momentwhere we're going to take a pause.
We're going to acknowledge our sponsor,Cat 5 Studios, and we're going to be
right back.
The Intern Whisperer is brought to youby Cat 5 Studios, who help you
create games and videos
for your training and marketing needsthat are out of this world.
Visit Cat 5 Studiosfor more information to learn
(40:46):
how Cat 5 Studioscan help your business.
Thank you.
Cat 5 Studios.
So now we're back to the secondhalf of our show with Shannon Latimer.
And this has been
a - just a really fun conversation.
And I don't know about you,but I just learned so much by your insight
that you shared aboutTo Kill A Mockingbird.
(41:07):
And I love the fact I've been takingcopious notes of everything you're saying.
I know you're like,you're watching me do it, I'm sure.
But I like this one part.
I'm going to quote you that,‘It makes people
confront their prejudice and moral compassand encourages empathy.
And so you think about your fellow manto be seen, heard and valued.’
(41:29):
I really like that a lot.
I'm going to use that as likepart of the show description and hel,
Yeah,it's going to be part of the headline.
Just so you know, it's - it's good.
So now we're looking at the futurein this part of the show.
So what do you think2030 is going to look like in the world,
in the education industry,or it can be in design?
It can be in anything you wantbecause you've
(41:50):
you've worked in several industries,and jobs in 2030.
What do you think it's going to be like?
It's an opinion question.Ooh.
So nobody's holding you to it.
Oh thank goodness, thank goodness.
Because to be honestI, I do not know. Yeah.
None of us know.
So you can always say something.
I will say,I think in education I'm hoping to see,
(42:13):
work based
opportunities, more enhanced work basedlearning opportunities.
A better connectionbetween the core classes
and your career related courses.
More and more students,
kids today, it's just blows my mind.
(42:34):
You can start taking collegecourses in middle school.
You start taking high schoolcourses in middle school.
So we have juniors and seni-
we have sophomoreswho are, almost have all their credits.
So what are we doing with these students?
They are having - an opportunityto take courses from on me, of course
(42:55):
some online now Zoom courses,
with peoplein another state, in another country.
Now, how does a middle schooler qualify?
Because, I mean, to take courses.
Are they doing it as an audit because,they can't take it for school credit yet?
Yes, you can.
How so?UCF and I believe Valencia as well
(43:16):
allows as young as sixth grade
to take a dual enrollment course.
So how do they qualify for that?
Do - okay.They still have to pass the PERT exam
And if you are in sixth, seventhand eighth grade
you will have to have a parentgo with you to -
to the - to the campus.
(43:37):
So yes, that's not several students,but still it is a few.
But most of our middleschool students, well I’ll say most.
You have a lot of middle school studentswho are taking high school credit courses.
So, a student can start as early
as I mean, in the seventh grade,I mean, ninth grade. Sixth.
(43:58):
Oh, wait.
Well, no, no,you can start in the sixth grade.
To take college classes or high school classes?
In the sixth grade, you can takea dual enrollment college course.
Wow.In the eighth grade, in Orange County Public Schools
and in several,in several of our surrounding districts.
We have several high school credit courses,especially those electives.
(44:20):
So we do haveand like, and, Project Lead The Way.
Introduction to engineering.
We have aggra - science.
Those are more prevalent ones.
Digital information technology those are,What about
about DECA?
DECA?
Now that is a student organization.
(44:40):
So it is considered a careerand technical student organization.
So yes, it is a club and yes,that also, helps
students enhance,improve their employability skills.
Very valuable organization.
DECA is mainly for our high school students
and FBLA,Future Business Leaders of America.
(45:04):
A student in middle school
can participatewithin those organizations as well as FFA.
And again, you are, students are gettingvaluable, valuable skills,
critical thinking, presentation,
you know, being able to, work within a team.
Yep.
(45:24):
Yep. Collaboration.
So communication.
Yeah, I, I'm really impressed.
I know, I, I had Laura Dao on my showalso.
Yeah.
And I met Laura a year agowhen I was participating in the,
program that Orange CountyPublic Schools has through
the DECA program at Doctor PhillipsHigh School.
(45:44):
And it was high school kidsthat I got to work with.
And I've had, this is my second year,of working with them.
And Laura
and I really enjoyed working with Laurabecause she was taking
a lot of my feedback, and taking it back
into the classroomto enhance the student experience.
So students were now earningsome certifications in industry apps
(46:07):
that people use, like HubSpot and Canvaand any of the other things,
that, that are out there.
Just about every company that has a,
an app has some kind ofan educational component to it
with measurable, certificationsthat have street value.
Yeah.
So, I love that this is so progressive.
(46:28):
And I'm sitting here going, ‘You know what?
I think when I want to retire,I think I want to go back
and I want to follow you.’,but I may go back.
Maybe I'll teach in the classroom,but maybe
I can go work in the county officeor do something like that.
That you could we need it at both.
And I'm glad you mentionedyour working with Laura Dao because that is,
and having that business and educationpartnership,
(46:51):
I - that's so needed. Yeah.
And that's what I'm going, I believewe are going to see more of that in 2030.
We're going to see moreof those businesses coming up with,
you know, projects and ideas thatthey can give to the high school student.
And maybe it's just a what if case scenario and having students develop ideas,
(47:13):
but we need
more businesses involvedwithin our high schools
so that students can be betterprepared for,
you know, their best,you know, for their for future jobs.
And also, I, I can't rememberand I believe you may have shared the,
statistic with us is that students today,
(47:35):
we're preparing them for jobsthat don't even exist.
Yep I did that was in the presentation, yep.
Yep. And um,
okay so let'sgo and talk about positive impact.
What do you thinkthe positive impact is of robots, AR
which is Augmented Reality - listeners,VR Virtual Reality or Generative AI
(47:56):
have on the future of workbecause they all have an impact.
And I'm pretty sure you knowthat there is a robot, program, first
you know, F I R S T , yes.FIRST Robotics?.
Yeah. And it's Wendy whose also been on my
my podcast.
Yeah, I love Wendy.
So they bring a different setof opportunity
(48:20):
in competency skill development.
And that's K through college.
Honestly, the first. So what do you think?
Which one do you want to pick? AR, VR,robots, Gen AI, what do you what?
Oh my goodness.
Well I believe Robots, AI
is definitely going to
help us be more productive,more efficient.
(48:48):
As long as we use it correctly.
You know, I love AI because
instead of spending an hour and a half
just making sure every word is correct
and precise, and even with that rightemail going to sort, you know,
whoever, you know, teacher or assistor a principal,
(49:09):
I'm saving that time.
I can just put in to, you know, The prompt.
AI the promptthis is what I wanted to say.
Boom. It generates.
And then I can add to itor personalize it.
My copy editor hat you know, hat comes.
Comes back on.Right?
But it's such a time saverand then I can spend more of my time
(49:32):
being creative, being innovative,making connections and relationships
that are going to benefit our students.
So I definitely see, you know,AI and, and - and I mentioned robots being,
you know, those, those thingsthat can help us be more productive.
And of course, in virtual reality,I think that helps.
And again, I'm I am putting it withinthe education realm helps us with training.
(49:57):
Help us with educate - education.
You know we may not take it,be able to take a student
on, you know on a field tripon an industry visit.
But in the classroom you're impacting,you know,
more than 200 kids throughout the daybecause each class will have roughly,
you know, 30 students and then you have,you know, 6 to 7
(50:18):
periods, you're able to teach and bring.
You know,
something, you know, realyou know, to the students.
And so, being able to, train
and educate virtual realitydefinitely, lends itself there.
And then, of course,being creative and entertainment,
(50:41):
you know, virtual reality, they automate it -I know I didn't,
I didn't discuss this one with you,but this is one of my concerns.
And we're going to jump overto the ethical dilemmas side
because Geoffrey Hintonshared in an interview in 60 minutes.
He said he's also calledthe godfather of AI.
He created this way back when there were
all a bunch of these white professorsthat were all working in the
(51:04):
Ivy League schools back in the 50s,and he created AI back then in the 50s.
And he said one of the ways in whichthese systems might escape control
is by writing their own computer codeto modify themselves.
And he said, that's somethingwe need to seriously worry about.
I think that that's very insightfulof somebody
who created something to sit here and go,‘What did we do?’
(51:25):
‘What did I do?’
And be open about that type of,
like.
Responsibility that he, he didn'thave the insight
to think about at the agehe was when he, he created it.
So I sit here and I think aboutjust because we can do things doesn't
mean we should, because not everybody we,you and I, we're in education.
(51:49):
We both know that not every studentis going to be a programmer.
Not every.
Because there's mental, there's physical,there's emotional
things that happen that become part
of that student's life that - that willprohibit them from doing it.
They may not be smart enough.
They may not be emotionally prepared.
(52:10):
They could have, you know,some type of a learning disability.
So where did those people fitinto the equation
of what is a very cerebral
job, opportunities that are being createdand they're not going to be there.
Personally, I like going intoa, every once in a while,
McDonald's and having that personthat greets me, it's a person.
(52:34):
It's not me ordering at a kioskand whatever.
I like being greetedbecause those jobs allow people
to obtain thethe soft skills, power skills that we use.
The same appliesfor the person at Walmart.
Any of these jobs, noteverybody is going to be those jobs,
(52:54):
and we're going to be getting ridof those jobs.
And I'm trying to imaginewhat is the job that they could do
that concerns me.
That's the ethics side of it.You know,
and you bring up a very good point.
And unfortunately,I don't have that answer.
Sometimes I do think that,
(53:14):
we arehumans and we need human connections.
We do.
And there are,
there unfortunately, very few companieswho are saying,
who are resisting it.
So, and there are some people,because I refuse
to use the self-checkout.
(53:35):
I don't either.
I want to keep somebody employed. I want - yes.
And I want to say ‘Good afternoon.
Hello. How are you?’
You know, and so the more,
But I don't know how many of us there arethat are resisting that.
You're right, I don't know.
You know what, this is what
I was talking with somebody,and I think it was.
(53:56):
It was in Publix, and I goout the checkout, and I said, ‘I do this.’
And I said, ‘Why is it that?’ and Targettoo has begun to do this, too.
They have noticed that more peoplewant to meet
a human ratherthan do the self - self-checkout.
So they've startedputting more people back in there.
And they told me this at Targetand they told me this at Publix also,
(54:18):
that they've seenthat there's more customers that want it.
And they said it was because I was going,‘Is it a specific generation?
You know, what is that?’
And they said, ‘No, it's actually all.’,because there's research that sho - shows
that Gen Z actuallyis more aligned with Baby Boomers,
with how they want to create relationshipwith people.
(54:40):
So now you've seen this GenY, you've seen Millennial,
you've seen, you know, all of these other,generations go through some,
awakening and say, ‘You know,
yes, they were bornwith the phone in their hand.
Yes. They, they - they've been born withall of these things that makes it easier.
(55:01):
But they don't know how to write cursive.
They don't know how to do things
for themselves because they canpick up the phone and do it.
And they're beginning
to realize the importanceof dealing with a human.’, I think.
I think that's refreshing.
It is very refreshing, it is. Yeah.
And I mean, it's so happy to see,
because
(55:23):
yes, I love technology, love AI,but of course
you start watching these,
sci-fi shows,
Yeah, yeah. Oh they’re great predictors.and then you - yes,
And then you start saying, ‘Okay,
what are these robots, these beings
(55:43):
thinking for themselves.’
How are we going to treat them as?
Are we going to treat them as equals?
Are we going to treat them as slaves?
And you would hope
that we would
be so open minded.
(56:04):
But you don't know,you don't know the, the,
the evil that could be sittingright in the back, you don't know. Right there.
So it, it brings up so many.
What type of abuse?
Of course you think of Westworld and the,
the abuse that happens to the robots.Yeah.
(56:26):
Right. It's, yeah, so I
but you look at the - and I don't know,I don't know.
So I want you to go and watchBlack Mirror.
It's on Netflix. There's five seasons.Ok.
They only put five episodes outeach season, but they're a lot.
And they're really when I saythey're dark, they're - they raise
that ethical question is like,‘Just because we can we should we?’,
(56:50):
you know, can we takethe consciousness of you that became,
some kind of - you're paralyzedand you have no, you're in coma.
And we take who you are and we put you.
This is what happened in an episode.
Put you inside of a teddy bear,and the teddy bear
is the one that can talk to just you.
Who you were married to that person.
(57:12):
Oh, my.
And it's just becomesthis whole thing, like, can that happen?
I'm sure this has already happened.
I just don't think it's become mainstreamknowledge is the thing.
So I think that there'sa lot of cautionary,
tales and also, predictors
of how people are wanting to shapethe world we live in.
(57:35):
I think that's what science fiction is, isit's like, you know,
‘What do we want the world to be like?’
That's right.
Yep, yep.
Right. So, well interesting conversation.
You have anything that you want to addon to that side of ethics?
I just
know we have a lot to critical thinkingand a lot of soul searching.
Lot of soul searching.
(57:56):
That we must do.
Before,
well honestly, we had, we had to move quickbecause technology and like Like
it can start happening quickly.you think.
And you open your face, you go,‘Well what just happened?’
Because honestly in my iPhoneI don't want to download whatever the
latest versions are because I go,‘I don't know what that's going to do.’
(58:18):
So, and you have to agree to the termsif you want to have a phone, period.
And if you don't, then you have no phone.
And how are you going to call people?
Because we don't have landlines that much any more.
No we don't.
So there comes this place where, you
they let you say no,but then you don't have anything.
(58:39):
You - you will not be able to communicate
with people on social channelsor through a phone, which is not a phone.
It is a tracker.
Yeah, that's true.
It tracks you on everything you do andthen you will not be able to communicate
people with peopleif you don't have an email account, right?
If you have no phone,you have no social channels.
(59:01):
How are you going to communicatewith people? Yeah.
And then we
have things that are radio and TV
and thank goodness we can still hear radiothrough, like our car.
Things of that way and that nature.
But with anything that people don't need
TVs anymore,you can watch it on your phone.
It's not a phone.
It’s a tracker.Yes,
(59:23):
we call it a tracker.
I call it my,you know, cell or cell - my device.
Yeah, yeah.
Anyway, well,best - the best mentoring advice
that you would like to share with our listeners.
And I told you this would go fastand you were going an hour.
It kind of blows really fast.Yeah.
(59:45):
Oh, my. I can't believe for. I went about an hour. Yeah.
But the best advice I would like toleave with listeners is to,
be a lifelong learner.
Always, always, always continueto learn, be flexible and adaptable.
Yes, I would agree with that.
You never knowwhat's going to happen.
You don't know what opportunities,what options.
(01:00:05):
Now be flexibleand welcome, welcome the change.
Yeah. Welcome changes.
Yeah. You have choices.
But you know
you can either go with it and and controlwhat's within your power, right?
Or not.
So how can listeners find you?
I usually supply your LinkedIn,but do you have any other social channels
(01:00:26):
that you want peopleto reach out to you or
I mean, I know I can find your emailbecause you're a public servant.
That's right.
Yes. Email is the best way of, reaching out to me as well as LinkedIn.
I do have, a LinkedIn account.
So yes, they could definitely sharethat way.
I must admit,I don't do a lot of social media, things.
(01:00:47):
Mos people in education don't.
It’s - that’s interesting.
Now what I do post,I try and post about our students Yeah.
and events and things and their successesand, oh, yeah.
Yeah.
Okay.
Well, listeners, if you had listenedand you reach out to Shannon,
be sure to mention The Intern Whispererso she knows how you got there.
Well, I want to tell you so much.
(01:01:08):
Thank you for being a guest on the show.
This was enlightening. It was really good.My pleasure.
And I have totally enjoyed this so very,very much.
So thank you. Well, thank you.
I had a wonderful time.
It was definitely an experiencethat, a positive experience.
And I'm happy that I jumped at.
Oh, I am so glad too.
We want to thank our sponsor,Cat 5 Studios.
(01:01:30):
And thank you to our video productionand editing team,
Erika Ulman, Gavin Staley
Music is by Sophie Lloyd.
The Intern Whisperer
is brought to you by Employers 4 Change,helping hiring teams to recruit
and upskill their intern talentand employees.
Learn more at
www.e4c.techand become a member to reduce employer
(01:01:53):
bias and improve company culturethrough head and heart smart
recruiting and learning.
Subscribe to The Intern Whisperer todayand show your support by sharing our show,
tagging a friend, and leaving us comments.
You can find The Intern Whisperer podcaston Employers 4 Change YouTube channel
or streamingfrom your favorite podcast channel.
(01:02:16):
Thank you so much.
Welcome to The Intern Whisperer.
Our show is all about the future of work.
And you know,my name is Isabella Johnston.
I'm the host of The Intern Whisperer.
But my podcast is also brought to youby Employers 4 Change.
That's my startup.
And we help hiring teams reduce employerbias and increase diversity
based on head and heart.smart competencies.
So my guest today is Shannon Latimer,and I have known her for quite a while.
(00:32):
We're not going to call outyears, Shannon. Just so you know,
she's a senior
administrator in the Careerand Technical Education department
with Orange County Public Schoolsin Orlando, Florida.
She is an accomplished educational leaderwith more than ten years of experience
cultivating relationshipson a national, regional, and local level,
(00:53):
building community engagement,and strengthening partnership development
with communities, and improving career-related, school based programs.
I think she's a bit of a superherobecause I've seen her in action,
and her super - super powersinclude analytical problem solver,
experienced communicator,strategic thinker with strong
(01:14):
organizational skills that are focusedon building collaborative relationships.
So, welcome to the show.
And I don't know, thiswasn't a question for you,
but if you could be any superhero,who would you be?
Oh man, that's a good one.
I'd be Batman.
Batman, not Batgirl.
I’m not Batman I’d be, well, Bat-Person.
Bat-Person. Yeah. Thereyou go, Bat-Person.
(01:36):
Yeah.
Okay, so, tell us about yourselfusing only five words.
And you had told mecreative was your first one.
Why creative?
Oh, my.
I've been, I love to design.
I am a graphic artist,and since the sixth grade
I have enjoyed designing pages.
First it started with yearbook.
(01:57):
I enjoyed coloring,putting colors together.
So I, I look at myselfas being quite creative,
not only on the space of when it comesto graphic design, but also being
innovative, creative in the eventsand opportunities that I bring students.
That is very, very - and you know, kidslove to draw.
I don't - I can't think of any kidthat doesn't really love to draw.
(02:18):
They doodle.
That's drawing. They, yes it is. Yes it is.
Yeah I definitely - your second one was loyal.
Now why loyal?
I love it when people pick this wordbecause I think it's significant.
Well, I was - I'm right or die, I,
I have friends that I've had for - for numerous years.
I enjoy sticking with the companyand with people and seeing them grow.
(02:43):
So I'm, I consider myselfa very loyal person.
And that's rare, right?
Peoplebounce around from employer to employer.
I don't think that's wise anymore.
I don't think that's a luxury
you should do because I thinkthat it's harder to get jobs.
I agree, I agree.
I also think that sometimes
you have to sit back and think about, ‘Whyam I leaving? Why am I bouncing around?
(03:06):
What - what growth potentials are there?
What growth potentialshave you not voiced?’
Because I think a lot of peopledo not voice their,
their potential or, sometimes you have to create
opportunities for yourselves and some - and,and many times that is just voicing,
‘I'm interested in this.
I would like to do this.
(03:27):
I want to learn more about this.’
So career goals. Yep.
So career goals. Yep.
Precise.
Why precise?
I'm a stickler to detail,
I think that's a good thing.
Yes, it - I hope so,but it does help me, stay organized.
But also, again, when it comesto, designing,
you know, I - everything has to be lined up.
(03:50):
Everything has to be.
Everything has a place. Yeah.
I learned something from workingwith graphic design students.
And, you know, they're snapping the grid,making sure everything's there.
And it's so funnybecause I've had, students
work on my website and all of them, will
they come in not thinking like a team.
(04:11):
And I'm sure you experience this.
They design as an individual.
But, when I say, okay, ‘You know,make sure all the font is the same size.’,
then it becomes a different exercisebecause they don't teach Yes.
that necessarily in school to work with a
team
to ensure quality,like you said, attention to detail, you -
(04:31):
there's individual attention to detailand then there's group individual detail.
Very true. Yeah.
Positive.
I think you're extremely positive.
I would have saidthis is the first word to describe you.
So why do you say that?
I like to look at the glass half full.
I like to look at peopleand opportunities.
(04:54):
Again, I don't look at thingsas, being negative.
So I, I and also,I will also tell you several of my friends
and coworkers have said, ‘Oh,Shannon, you're the positive
bee in the room.’
Oh, case in point, I think we had to,a group of us
had to drive to Titusville,and everybody was complaining.
The first thing I said was, ‘Hey,at least we don't have to walk.
(05:16):
Let's look on the positive side of things.’
No, but, I believe it is,Yeah.
you know, takes as much energyto be positive to negative.
And so I rather be the sunshinein the room and then - instead of the cloud.
I like that one.
I like that a lot.
So let me ask you another question then.
‘Rather be the sunshine.’
I'm taking notes here because you havesome really good zingers here. Oh,
(05:39):
Yeah.
If - I like to be positive, too.
But I also like looking for thingsthat are wrong
because it allows,to put them back into order.
And do you do that?
I'm not sure I would look at itas seeing that they're wrong,
but looking at the opportunity, yes.How it can be done better. How it could be done better?
(06:02):
Because I believe everythingcan be done - done better, everything. Absolutely.
Case in point.So you just corrected what I was saying.
So you made it betterinstead of being a negative.
That was good.
Really good.
Okay. So your last one is adventure.
Adventurous? Why?Yes.
I like to try new things.
I like to travel.
I like to - new experiences.
(06:23):
New food.
So, adventurous.
What kind of new food have you tried?
Oh my.
Lately, I will tell youI am a HelloFresh person. Okay.
And anything that they send I am game
That's the box, right?to try it.
That's the box.Okay.
I love it, love it love it.
So different cultural foods, have I had tha-
(06:47):
But I try, lightly.
There is a -Do they have ramen?
I think they do.
Not in the package.
Like real ramen. And I, I'm going to
tell you, ok.You know what, I'm not sure, I’ll have- I will, I’m not sure.
So don’t hold me to that one.
I would have to
look at their, look at their selectionsand see if they have the ramen.
So what's the best thing that you hadfrom HelloFresh?
(07:08):
Oh my goodness,that's a tough one because they do
an excellent chicken rice bowl.
And then there's also this rosemary
chicken within cranberry sauce. Yum.
That's fabulous though.
I haven't tried their food.
So I've seen a lot of those things outthere.
(07:30):
And I sit and I think, ‘DoI want to do that?’
Because I really likegoing to the grocery store.
Do you find it more convenient to have itjust there and it's ready for you?
I do, when I was - I don't wannatell my age, but when I was younger.
Yeah. Going to the grocery store, I enjoyed.
Now that I'm a little busierand my mother does live with me.
(07:51):
So we decide to do the HelloFresh and,she does most of our grocery shopping.
So now that it is,it's just so convenient.
And again, it has
HelloFresh has exposed me to severaldifferent new recipes that I myself
would have never tried out or,you know, tried to cook, cous-cous, quinoa.
(08:12):
I love it Oh yeah, super good.
And I would not have even thought
about buying those and cooking themif it wasn't for HelloFresh.
So for me, HelloFresh is a new experience.
Have you had ramen, like real ramen?
No, I have not.
Okay, so I'm going to propose that - I don'tknow what you're doing after the show,
but there is a really goodramen place, really good.
(08:34):
And it's downtown Orlando.
Jinya.
Ok -what is it called?
J I n y a, it's a chain.
actually. It is some of the best - onceI had that - that real ramen I went,
‘I will never eat anythingout of a container or in an a package.’ Yes.
Like,
It was noodles. Never again. Never.Okay.
(08:55):
It is so incredibly good,that one is a really, really good one.
There's also, I don't know, what's yourfavorite cuisine that you would- Mexican.
Mexican.
Do you have a favorite restaurant too?
We're going to give shoutoutsto some of them. I do.
Let's see here.
Now it's interesting
because one of my favorite restaurantshappens to be Maggiano's.
(09:16):
An Itallian - I don’t know where that is.
Oh my goodness, it's in Port Orlando.
I used to live in Dallas, and Imade a list of all my favorite restaurants Wow.
to make sure they were here,and Maggiano's was one, thank goodness.
Where are they located?Point Orlando.
Point Orlando, I
don't even know whereDown there by, and off International Drive.
Okay, okay, okay. Yeah.
(09:38):
Well that's good.
That's a chain.
But, the ramen place is a chain also.
But there's this, local mom and pop
Italian restaurantthat's also right off of Primrose.
I think it is Primrose.Okay.
And they,
they give you more food than Olive Garden.
Okay?
And it's all, you know,it tastes very homemade.
(10:01):
It is really, really good.
And I would say that one was pretty,pretty good.
And then there's been,a Brazilian restaurant I cri - tried
on, I-Drive, very good.Oh.
I do, reviews. Yelp reviews.
Do you do that? I do not.
You know, they have somethingbecause you're adventuresome with food.
You might consider doing Yelp reviewsalso because they give you some more perks
(10:26):
when you do it.
I’ll think about it.You don't get paid, but, you know, you get
You, get to eat at some places for
free. Hey I’ll have to look into as well.
But as far as my favorite restaurant,I do love Uncle Julio’s, which is awesome,
that one is also off of I-Drive and again, it was one of I haven’t heard of that one either.
my favorites when I lived in Dallas,so I was happy when it came - What kind of food?
(10:46):
It's Mexican.
Wow. Okay, well, new places for me to trybecause I like Mexican.
If there's tamales,if there's tamales, I'm all over it.
Or a really good -
there's a chunky guacamole that,
can you tell I'm hungry? Yeah.I can tell.
Okay. Yeah.
Anyway, chunkyguacamole is better than the smooth ones,
so.Yeah I agree.
(11:08):
All right,so we went through these good words
and I think that was significant.
Where does your career path start?
Was it in college and high school?
You know you can start wherever we getabout 15 minutes on this one. Ok.
So - and then - how did you become - to bea senior administrator?
Okay.
Well, I'm going to tell you my careerpath started in the seventh grade.
(11:30):
What?I know, amazing.
You know, those teachersare so instrumental in our lives.
I had an English teacher
who told me, or suggested,encouraged me to try out for the yearbook.
Never in a million years.
would I - would have thoughtabout yearbook in middle school?
My grandfather was a computer programmer.
(11:51):
I was a grandfather's girl.
So I always said, I'mgoing to be like my granddaddy.
I'm going to go into computer science.
Well, after my English teacherencouraged me to go,
MRs. Thomas,she encouraged me to go into journalism.
Well, the yearbook staff, I loved it.
I loved the writing.
I loved making sure that, I saw itas my calling to make sure everyone
(12:13):
in our school, the popular, the non-popular, sixth grade, eighth grade,
everyone was represented in our yearbook,I love that.
And so, seventh gradeI became the editor.
Okay.
And then eighth grade,I was also - no at seventh grade.
I was co-editor, eighth gradeI was edito - solo editor.
And then, going to high schoolmy ninth grade year,
(12:35):
I was the first ninth grader
ever allowed on our high school yearbookstaff. Wow.
I know, and, that really paved the way
or led me to want to become a journalist
to go into magazinepublication, newspaper publication.
I guess I'm telling my agebecause I said newspaper publication.
(12:57):
Well, they still have newspapers. Hello.
There is the Wall Street Journal and NewYork Times, so yeah, they're still there. Yeah that’s true.
You're right, you're right.
So from seventh grade, I knewI wanted to be in the journalism world.
But again, as I mentioned,you know, going to high school and,
I worked my way up to, I was the firstjunior editor of our yearbook,
(13:17):
as well as the first blackeditor of my high school yearbook
and the first two-time editor, becauseI was editor my junior and my senior year.
So I say all that to say
yes, I went to University of Floridaand majored in.
Okay. Journal - yes.
I majored in journalism and communicationswith a focus on magazine publication.
(13:38):
And so I got a chance to work for,
a couple of newspapersin, in Gainesville.
I worked for, what was the name of the magazine?
The blue magazine?
Florida Blue?
Can’t even remember the - how long it was ago.
I went to University of Florida.
I should know this one, too.I know.
But you know what, I - I don't.Yeah.
(13:58):
So I spent one, one yearworking on the magazine at, at UF.
And then after UF,I worked for a small newspaper
in Delawareas well as a small newspaper in Indiana.
So what did you do there?
My first job, I was a copy editor.
Okay.
And I'll tell you, many people,most people going into journalism
(14:18):
want to be in broadcastor want to be the, the reporter, again
I’m precise and I want to make things better.
So I, my dream was to be a copy editor.
Okay.
So what is a copy editorand why do they call it copy editor?
It sounds likeall you're doing is copying.
Well, you take the copyand the copy is the written word
(14:39):
produced by the reporter, and we edit it.
We approve it, we write the headlines, we,Oh.
at that timewe did the page design for the newspaper.
And so we are the behind the scenes,I would say the wonder maker,
because we make everythingflow and, you know, look, look good.
(15:01):
You know, I'm now seeing the reasonwhy you picked all of those words, precise,
You know, you said detail and like,let me go back
and look at these really quick herebecause you said creative. Yes.
That's checking that box.
Precise, positive. Yes.
I can see all of these wordsin this career path that you have taken.
Yeah.
(15:21):
Again, so, where was I?
Oh, yeah. So, yeah,
so I wanted to be a copy editor.
And also at that time, there were morepeople who wanted to be a reporter
and not as many who wanted to be copyeditors.
We were in great demand.
We were.
So, graduating from UF in May.
I already hada job lined up in February.
(15:44):
So as I mentioned, I went to Delaware.
I only spent six months thereand went on to, small newspaper,
Fort Wayne, Indiana,and spent a year and eight months there.
First time I ever seen snow
Wow. is when I lived in Indiana.
And then after that, after,the worst summer.
No, the worst winter they ever had
(16:05):
and seven years.
I said ‘Okay, this Florida girlneeds to get back to South.’
So then I accepted a job at,Shreveport, Louisiana.
Okay.
Spent two wonderful years there.
Food was wonderful.
And about that time, however, things were changing.
The internet was coming on board.
Well, unfortunately, no one knewexactly what to do with the internet.
(16:27):
Kinda like AI,Yeah.
Yes, yes.
And, there were not many copyeditors and page designers,
so I was workingseven days a week, six days a week,
very, very long hours,putting on a lot of weight.
And I just started to think, ‘Is thisreally what I want my life to be like?’
(16:48):
And so at 25,I decided to leave newspapers
and got into corporate communicationsand moved to Dallas
and work for JCPenney'scorporate headquarters.
Okay, that's a big jump, really big jump.
Gosh, okay, this sounds very exciting.
So now you go from retail industry
(17:09):
to - Well, I spent 14 wonderful years.
Well about 13 years, and maybe eight monthsor so with JCPenney's.
I worked with a corporate communications,worked with their advertising department,
catalog advertising department.
And so enjoy the first,
(17:30):
I would say 11 years, the lastthree years were very difficult.
We had a new CEO and every six months
or so we would have a layoff,a round of layoffs.
I made it for three years,but I kept seeing my friends leave and Wow.
our department shrunk.
Yeah,But the work didn't really shrink.
(17:51):
Right. So it was.
Was it going more, why - why do you thinkthat was happening at that time?
Well, our new CEO, Was it buying things online, or?
Well, I'm not sur - I don't think that was really it.
It was just a different mindsetfor our new CEO.
He thought wecould do more with less.
(18:13):
And, however, I would just say that
Penny’s went from
maybe a stock price
of, you know, 75, $80 to $7.
Wow. Yes, it was.
Was this, was Sears going under?
I mean, Penney's is still around.
And I mean, Sears went down.
It did, but Penney's, got rid of that CEO.Okay,
(18:37):
Good for them.
It started to, improve.
But, but it was an eye opener for me.
Yeah.
It taught me a lot of lessons.
My - my time.
My end time,I should say there, because while
I was at JCPenney's, I did get my mastersfrom Baylor University.
(18:58):
That's a great school.Exec -
Thank you.
Executive program.
I learned a lot.
It was amazing.
Being in the classroom with, you know,
division heads
and, you know, vi - vi - a companyvice president.
So it was really,really an eye opener for me.
Coming from the journalism creative sideand really to see what it takes
(19:22):
to build a business,to make a business successful,
the PNL reports, you know, get ahead, you know,being on the creative side, you know. Yeah. No.
So, that experiencewas truly phenomenal for me.
It was an eye opener.
And it also encouraged meto, was one of the things
that encouraged meto start a graphic design business.
(19:44):
I can't take all the creditbecause for my, sorority, I would do,
I would design our fundraiserbooklets, program booklets.
We would have debutantes,and I would do their booklets and one day,
a sor - a sorority member came up to me
and said, ‘I want you to design my weddinginvitations.’
Nice.
(20:04):
And I said, ‘I don't do that.’
She says, ‘If you can do this.’
Pointing to the debutante book, he says,‘You can do my wedding invitations.’
And she would not take no for an answer.
No, she had the reason,she already anticipated
you saying no.
She said, ‘Well, if you could do this,of course you can.’
I'm curious, what was your sorority?Yes.
Alpha KappaAlpha Sorority Incorporated. Okay.
I was in, a Greek system also.
(20:26):
Yeah.
So, that experiencefrom doing her wedding,
which was one of -the talk of the town in Dallas
at the time.I did everything related to paper.
So, you know, she had a brochure,
she had, napkins, you name it.
I did it for her,she had posters and of cour - and word of mouth.
(20:50):
‘Oh, I want you to do my wedding Shannon.
Oh, I'm having a baby shower.’
And that's how my graphicdesign business started.
And then I worked for an eclipse magazinesand some - a couple of other smaller
local magazines at the time,consistently working with JCPenney.
So those were always side gigs for me.
And, but yeah, so
(21:11):
when the - when it was time for my layoff,because we were all sitting around
just waiting for it to happen,I wasn't sure what I was going to do.
So again, one lesson that taught me
I was there forthree years watching all these layoffs.
I should have had a plan in place. Yeah.
So that taught me to have planB, plan C, plan D ready.
(21:35):
But it also let me know that my,my grandfather taught me
when you start working,and he says make sure you invest
invest in your401K, invest in yourself.
So I - and so I got a financial plannerat the age of 22.
And I was single with no children.
And when my layoff came and -
(21:55):
Wait, all of this took place before you were 20 -
No - okay.No no no no no. No no not yet.
Wow. Yeah.Not working, yet.
No I worked at Penney's for 14 years.
So of course there’s that pre-planning.Oh, okay.
So my first job in Delaware,I was already,
you know, investing,and saving and investing, yes. Saving.
And so when I was laid off,I talked to my financial planner
(22:15):
and he told me, ‘So, Shannon,you're in a good financial position.
If you would like to not work
for the next, you know, 3 to 4 years, we,Whoa
Yes, I did say that. That was a lot of money for filing away, wow.
And I'll tell you,I made a pretty good penny at JCPenney.
No pun intended. It was, it - it was.
(22:36):
And that's one.
I'd also say that was another lesson,because I did not want to leave that job
because of the amount of moneyI was making at that time.
While I say I was adventurous,I was still too scared to step out.
And so, many times I had a pastortell me that,
Go-, ‘You may not be ready to go,but God will push you.’
(23:00):
And God’ll make youThat’s true.
- make it tight where you areso you can get where you ought to be.
And we had that squeeze at Penney’s
and being let go,it was a little devastating.
But also it was a little freeing as well.
Yeah.
And again I look at all my past blessings
because my grandfather told me to invest.
(23:23):
So I had the financial meansthat I didn't have to worry. Yeah.
I didn't have to take just any job.
But also our layoff packagewas phenomenal.
I got laid off in April.
I still got a paycheck till December.
Wow. Yeah, I don't know.
I guess that might happen with somecompanies, but that's again, that's rare. Yes.
(23:44):
Again, yes, yes, yes.
So that gave me some timeto continue to work on my business
and try and figure outexactly what I wanted to do.
And during that I did applyfor several positions within the
Dallas-Fortworth area, because I thoughtthat's where I wanted to stay.
But more and more, I wasn't sure if Iwanted to stay within corporate America.
And then, my mother and my auntand I, we took a trip
(24:08):
and we went to New York,
and my mother and I told herone of my past dreams.
I wanted to teach,
because I alwaysfelt like I had something to give back.
And I always wantedto give back to students.
I got into journalismto give underrepresented people
at that time in we weren’t called underrepresentedpeople it was just people who look
(24:29):
and sound like me. Right.
Didn't have a voice,whether it was African American
where, because I went to a schoolthat was predominantly white
and several of my classes,I was the only black kid in the class. Wow.
And so Did you have a scholarship?
To UF?
Yeah.I did, and that's a story in itself, too.
I kind of figured you didjust because I'm going,
(24:50):
‘Listen, you know,this is a woman who's really driven.
I'm pretty sure she had a scholarship,and I don't think it was just one.’
I think it was like, I'm going.‘She was in a sorority.
I was in a sorority.
They're not cheap.So she had a ride there.’
I was very blessed in that
my entire undergrad waswas paid for by scholarships.
And yes it wasYeah.
(25:11):
Yes it was. But,
I'm forgot what you were talking about.
Okay.
So you were wanting,you got into journalism
to give underrepresentedpeople like yourself?
Yes, a voice.
Yeah.
You know, to be recognized,given the voice.
And so, what better way
to help peoplefind their own voice but in education?
(25:32):
And so, my mother.
So I told my mother, you know, I said,‘I want to teach college one day, but not now.’
And I said, ‘I'll do that later in life.’
And my mother looked at meand she says, ‘Shannon this is your
later in life.’, because at that timeI was 38, 39 years old.
Yeah. So she says, yes.Oh, wake up call.
You know, she said,‘You been working for 20 some odd years.’
(25:53):
She says, ‘Give it a try.’
So I decided
on a whim, kid you not, to sell my house
and, in Dallas because I asked God,
‘What is itthat's going to make me just take any job?’
And it was my mortgage.
(26:13):
And again, one of my grad school
professors would tell us, you know,during my MBA time, he would tell us,
‘You got to take your emotionsout of your financial decisions.’
And if I didn't walk awaywith anything else out of grad school,
that was probably one of the most profoundthings ever.
And so, I had to take the emotion out.
(26:36):
So I sold - put my house on the market.
I figured it would sell in six months.
It sold in four days.
So I had to make some quick decisions.
‘What am I going to do?’
And so, what do they say?
You can always go back home.
Yeah.
So I said, ‘Okay, I must go home again.’
And of course, coming home to Floridawas only supposed to be a pit stop.
(27:00):
It was only supposed to be for four years.
And I will also tell you that for
since I was in the seventh grade,I was a planner.
I'm gonna do this.
I’m gonna do that. I’m gonna do this.
I'mma do that
During that layoff time,
I said, ‘Okay, God,I had planned absolutely everything
and it has not come,as I thought it would be.’ Right?
(27:21):
I - said so, ‘I'mma let go of the reinsand I'm gonna let you do me.’
I'm gonna let you do.
Yeah.
CauseI've been trying to control so many things.
And so I was with my mother,who was an interior design
teacher in high school, and,we bumped into her principal.
And her principal happenedto be my assistant principal
(27:43):
when I was in high school. Okay.
And so when I was in high school,I was also class president all four years.
And so,Not surprised.
So Mr.
Lundquist and I would do the morningannouncements together.
So he says, ‘Latimer, what are you doing?’
So I told them that I was - had my graphic design business.
But I was in between jobs.
He says ‘You need to bea substitute teacher for me.’
(28:06):
I was like, ‘Oh no,’
but sometimes you have to say, why not?
Yeah., and that's exactly what I said.
After a couple of weeks, ‘ said, ’Why not?’
So he had again, good people in your life,
made surethat I became a substitute teacher.
I did that for three months.
And then, English teacher.
When - it was at Oviedo High School.Which school was it?
(28:28):
That's a good school too. Yes, yes.
And an English teacherwent out on maternity leave and
Mr. Lundquist, which was, I find outnow that that was his, his plan
all along was to have me take overthat class and I
apparently did a good job.
And so when Winter SpringsHigh School was starting a new
(28:48):
program, Hospitality and Tourism, Mr. Lundquist
recommended me for the position.
And, so I got the position to teach hospitality tourism
I was the only hospitalitytourism teacher in Seminole County,
and, that's how I got into education.
That is a very cool story.
I was an English teacher.
(29:09):
I think I told you that, yeah.Yes you did.
So we - we sh -
It's probably why I like you so much.
Yeah, I, I don't think I was very good
in, in art, but I would never -every single one of my electives was art.
So I sit hereand I go, as you've been talking
and just sharing so much about your storyIw ent, ‘Wow, no wonder I really like her.
We have so much in common.’
(29:32):
We do.
I think that you, were really brave to douh, are you an only child? Y’know?
I am not.
Now I'm the oldest of four. Okay.
That's interesting.
So you're -
you've been the one that's been leadingthe way for the other kids, then? Yes.
Yep. Very cool.
So now, how did you get to the county?
Oh that's another, that's a good story.
(29:53):
Well, as a first year teacher and teachinghospitality and tourism,
and being the only hospitalitytourism teacher in
or in Seminole County, I had a wonderful,wonderful district liaison.
Her name was Colleen Brown.
And she suggested, ‘You know what?
You got to know.
You know your strengthsand you know your faults, right?’
(30:14):
She would say ‘She's a Shannon.
I don't know anythingabout hospitality tourism
because we have not had that program,but I know who does.’
So she connected mewith some wonderful people at OCPS
because OSCPS has had the programfor a number of years.
So they welcomed me inand we would have teacher
professional development,with the Orange County teachers.
(30:34):
And so Orange County was impressed
with what I was doing in the classroomin Seminole County.
And, my mentor, Pat Breedin.
her boss,she was the - our Orange County district liason
for hospitality,or at that time, the, program director
(30:57):
and her boss, the director of careertechnical education
of OCPS asked her, ‘When you retire -
When she retired,who would she like to replace her?’
And I was one of the namesthat she recommended.
So she had me come and meet her boss.
And he, like, ‘I like her, I like her.’
So when the opportunity presented itself,they offered me a position
(31:18):
to come work with them
In Orange County.
So I remember when you came over
to Starter Studio's office,and that's where I first met you.
I honestly can't rememberwho you were with, but I'm sure you do,
because you've mentioned first and lastnames of every single body in your life.
I believe I was with, Laine Powell.
(31:41):
I think I was withYeah.
Tech Sassy Girlz Doctor Laine Powell. Yes.
She is a sorority, sister of mine.
But wait it was somebody else that spokethat, taught at the county level.
She wasn't there. It must - it must have been Pat Breedin
then, it had to have been.It had to have been.
That name doesn’t sound familiar to me.
Yeah, but I'm going to go with it's, I knowLane Powell, I know Doctor Powell yeah.
(32:04):
Wow, yeah.So that was, well yeah.
So that's how I got into education.
And then againthat's how I got into the district.
Did Orange County Public Schools, to help
our career technical educationinstructors build their programs,
connecting them with business partners,because that was
one of the things that I didin Seminole County.
(32:26):
I told the students from day one,‘I'm not an instructor.
I was not trained to be a teacher,but I know how to manage people.’
And so therefore I told themI'm going to look at them as my trainees.
And I was going to be their chief,their CEO, their chief education officer.
So we worked togetherto create their educational experiences.
(32:50):
And we,
went on
industry site visits because I refusedto call them field trips.
Yeah, we did, and the site visits, we had guest speakers.
We worked on projects.
We,
we volunteered with the theater group
(33:11):
and the students became the, the,the, the greeters.
And they passed out,you know, things we, worked
with the football teamto plan their football banquet.
So we tried to incorporate business
customer service concepts and ideas,with the students.
(33:33):
And then - and then my second year, I,became the yearbook advisor. Wow.
And I will tell you, You love that.
I did, yes I did.It came full circle for you.
Yes, I did, and I will tell youif - if I could have,
my last job in education,I would love to be a yearbook advisor.
You mean again? I would.
(33:53):
I would.
You would leave this positionwhere you have so much authority
and you can change lives like this?
I mean, you know,maybe as one of my my last jobs.
Easing out the door because the plan is tohave someone come behind me and continue
the job that I'm doing with OCPS in careertechnical education.
(34:14):
Because you're right.
I do love my current job.
Yeah, It gives me the opportunity to - to expose students
to careers and opportunitiesthat they would have never thought of.
Yeah.
Also, it allows me to see students
do thingsthey never thought they could do.
Several timeswhen we've had our pitch competitions
(34:37):
and when we've hadour culinary competition
and these studentsare making masterpieces in front of,
you know, professionals and they arein awe like, ‘Oh my goodness, I did this.
Oh my goodness, I got a third place.’
You know,just being able to accomplish it Yeah.
and see the joy
and the sense of accomplishmentis, is amazing.
(35:00):
It really is. You know,Yeah.
I agree,
I've had those moments toI taught seventh, ninth
and 10th grade Englishand they're going to the graduation.
And I would be, you know,English teachers had all of this authority
where we could.
we were the only ones that could say,
‘Okay we're going to let you skip an abilitylevel.’
(35:20):
You could go from being at riskto base, well, to standard, to honors, like,
you know, we were the ones that signed upand there was this one kid.
I know you'll appreciate this story.
First gen from Indiahad been put in the basic classes
because they didn't know English as well,even though they were in ESOL.
(35:42):
Asked if they could move upto the standard classes, and I went,
‘Okay,so you got to get through this semester
and you're going to have to make surethat you make an A no less than a B.
If you do that, then yes, I'll sign offand I'll switch you over this semester
so you could go to the next ability level.’
He worked so hard, so incredibly hard.
(36:03):
He got to move.
And then apparently hehe understood how to use the system.
He asked his standard teacherif he could do that move to honors.
And he did.
And so, I had him in 10th grade.
In 11th grade, he was over in honors,
and I did not know this,and I did not see him until graduation.
And he came to find me and he said, ‘I justwant you to know, because you did this.
(36:28):
I am the first generationgraduating with honors
from a, you know, an American schooland all of this.
And because you believed in me.’
And I have a lot of those stories.
I'm sure you do, too.
And we know we have so much powerand we can change one person's
life in a big way.
Yes. You do. Yes you do.
Teachers do. Yes you do.
You not only gave him a chance,
(36:49):
but you also taught himthe value of advocating for himself. Yep.
And negotiating.
And that is key.Everything.
Yes. Yeah. Advocating for himself.
You're absolutely right.
Okay, so what would a perfect
life look like for you? Oh,
well, I
would say, to have the timeand the money to explore
(37:10):
my passions and my strengths,
as well as, I'm a huge sports fan.
Okay.
So one of the thingsI would, I love football. What kind of sports?
Okay.
Well basketball, track and field,I'm getting into volleyball now.
My niece plays volleyball.Okay.
(37:31):
So yes, I want to,
told studentsI want to be a professional fan.
Okay.
All right, all right.
So, so you know, those tickets to going tothe Orlando Magic are expensive.
I know now that they start winning, butthat's the importance again of investing.
Yes, it is, because now you can goand buy those tickets and be able to go.
(37:54):
I can sit in a box if I want to.
That’s right. Yeah.
I don’t know,
you know you might go back to themand go and negotiate because, you know,
they might need some graphic designor some,
some of the services that you provide.
And you could come in and say, you know,‘I'm going to be your biggest fan.
Let me tell you what,I think you should do.’
‘And it will only costThat’s one thing -
(38:14):
you a season of tickets.’
You know what, I love that idea.
I can edit it, make sure their programbook links are, you know, error free.
Yes, I'm sure you can.
All right, well,I think that sounds like a lot of fun.
What is your favorite bookthat you believe everyone should read
and will help them to be better?
(38:35):
I'd say To Kill A Mockingbird.
Okay.
That's like a really kind of a dark book.
But why? I’d say that because To Kill A Mockingbird
makes people confront one thing, right?
Their prejudice,
it makes them dealwith their moral compass.
(38:55):
It also hopefully, encourages empathy -
empathy,
makes you think about your fellow man,
helping you to see someonewho's not like you.
But to see them
as you are, you know.
Yeah.
I think it's a big deal for people
(39:18):
to be seen and heardbecause our world is fast.
You know those reels,everything on social media.
It's like secondswe only read headlines we don't read.
We don't do stuff and we don't slow down.
So making sure somebody feels seen
and heard is a really big gift,And valued.
Yeah.
No matter what station of life you are,you are valued.
(39:41):
And I think To Kill A Mockingbird,does that.
Also, I am a big history buff,and I do believe if you do not
pay attention to the past,
if you don't learn from the past,you are doomed to repeat it.
So, it's a good history lesson
on how, poor people
(40:02):
thought of and dealt with
in the quote unquote system
and, you know, justice system.
So hope it leads,
I hope by readingthe book will lead to personal growth
and enhance critical thinking on people.
And that’s how I really think To Kill A Mockingbird
(40:25):
can help make people better.
Yeah.
This is a really good momentwhere we're going to take a pause.
We're going to acknowledge our sponsor,Cat 5 Studios, and we're going to be
right back.
The Intern Whisperer is brought to youby Cat 5 Studios, who help you
create games and videos
for your training and marketing needsthat are out of this world.
Visit Cat 5 Studiosfor more information to learn
(40:46):
how Cat 5 Studioscan help your business.
Thank you.
Cat 5 Studios.
So now we're back to the secondhalf of our show with Shannon Latimer.
And this has been
a - just a really fun conversation.
And I don't know about you,but I just learned so much by your insight
that you shared aboutTo Kill A Mockingbird.
(41:07):
And I love the fact I've been takingcopious notes of everything you're saying.
I know you're like,you're watching me do it, I'm sure.
But I like this one part.
I'm going to quote you that,‘It makes people
confront their prejudice and moral compassand encourages empathy.
And so you think about your fellow manto be seen, heard and valued.’
(41:29):
I really like that a lot.
I'm going to use that as likepart of the show description and hel,
Yeah,it's going to be part of the headline.
Just so you know, it's - it's good.
So now we're looking at the futurein this part of the show.
So what do you think2030 is going to look like in the world,
in the education industry,or it can be in design?
It can be in anything you wantbecause you've
(41:50):
you've worked in several industries,and jobs in 2030.
What do you think it's going to be like?
It's an opinion question.Ooh.
So nobody's holding you to it.
Oh thank goodness, thank goodness.
Because to be honestI, I do not know. Yeah.
None of us know.
So you can always say something.
I will say,I think in education I'm hoping to see,
(42:13):
work based
opportunities, more enhanced work basedlearning opportunities.
A better connectionbetween the core classes
and your career related courses.
More and more students,
kids today, it's just blows my mind.
(42:34):
You can start taking collegecourses in middle school.
You start taking high schoolcourses in middle school.
So we have juniors and seni-
we have sophomoreswho are, almost have all their credits.
So what are we doing with these students?
They are having - an opportunityto take courses from on me, of course
(42:55):
some online now Zoom courses,
with peoplein another state, in another country.
Now, how does a middle schooler qualify?
Because, I mean, to take courses.
Are they doing it as an audit because,they can't take it for school credit yet?
Yes, you can.
How so?UCF and I believe Valencia as well
(43:16):
allows as young as sixth grade
to take a dual enrollment course.
So how do they qualify for that?
Do - okay.They still have to pass the PERT exam
And if you are in sixth, seventhand eighth grade
you will have to have a parentgo with you to -
to the - to the campus.
(43:37):
So yes, that's not several students,but still it is a few.
But most of our middleschool students, well I’ll say most.
You have a lot of middle school studentswho are taking high school credit courses.
So, a student can start as early
as I mean, in the seventh grade,I mean, ninth grade. Sixth.
(43:58):
Oh, wait.
Well, no, no,you can start in the sixth grade.
To take college classes or high school classes?
In the sixth grade, you can takea dual enrollment college course.
Wow.In the eighth grade, in Orange County Public Schools
and in several,in several of our surrounding districts.
We have several high school credit courses,especially those electives.
(44:20):
So we do haveand like, and, Project Lead The Way.
Introduction to engineering.
We have aggra - science.
Those are more prevalent ones.
Digital information technology those are,What about
about DECA?
DECA?
Now that is a student organization.
(44:40):
So it is considered a careerand technical student organization.
So yes, it is a club and yes,that also, helps
students enhance,improve their employability skills.
Very valuable organization.
DECA is mainly for our high school students
and FBLA,Future Business Leaders of America.
(45:04):
A student in middle school
can participatewithin those organizations as well as FFA.
And again, you are, students are gettingvaluable, valuable skills,
critical thinking, presentation,
you know, being able to, work within a team.
Yep.
(45:24):
Yep. Collaboration.
So communication.
Yeah, I, I'm really impressed.
I know, I, I had Laura Dao on my showalso.
Yeah.
And I met Laura a year agowhen I was participating in the,
program that Orange CountyPublic Schools has through
the DECA program at Doctor PhillipsHigh School.
(45:44):
And it was high school kidsthat I got to work with.
And I've had, this is my second year,of working with them.
And Laura
and I really enjoyed working with Laurabecause she was taking
a lot of my feedback, and taking it back
into the classroomto enhance the student experience.
So students were now earningsome certifications in industry apps
(46:07):
that people use, like HubSpot and Canvaand any of the other things,
that, that are out there.
Just about every company that has a,
an app has some kind ofan educational component to it
with measurable, certificationsthat have street value.
Yeah.
So, I love that this is so progressive.
(46:28):
And I'm sitting here going, ‘You know what?
I think when I want to retire,I think I want to go back
and I want to follow you.’,but I may go back.
Maybe I'll teach in the classroom,but maybe
I can go work in the county officeor do something like that.
That you could we need it at both.
And I'm glad you mentionedyour working with Laura Dao because that is,
and having that business and educationpartnership,
(46:51):
I - that's so needed. Yeah.
And that's what I'm going, I believewe are going to see more of that in 2030.
We're going to see moreof those businesses coming up with,
you know, projects and ideas thatthey can give to the high school student.
And maybe it's just a what if case scenario and having students develop ideas,
(47:13):
but we need
more businesses involvedwithin our high schools
so that students can be betterprepared for,
you know, their best,you know, for their for future jobs.
And also, I, I can't rememberand I believe you may have shared the,
statistic with us is that students today,
(47:35):
we're preparing them for jobsthat don't even exist.
Yep I did that was in the presentation, yep.
Yep. And um,
okay so let'sgo and talk about positive impact.
What do you thinkthe positive impact is of robots, AR
which is Augmented Reality - listeners,VR Virtual Reality or Generative AI
(47:56):
have on the future of workbecause they all have an impact.
And I'm pretty sure you knowthat there is a robot, program, first
you know, F I R S T , yes.FIRST Robotics?.
Yeah. And it's Wendy whose also been on my
my podcast.
Yeah, I love Wendy.
So they bring a different setof opportunity
(48:20):
in competency skill development.
And that's K through college.
Honestly, the first. So what do you think?
Which one do you want to pick? AR, VR,robots, Gen AI, what do you what?
Oh my goodness.
Well I believe Robots, AI
is definitely going to
help us be more productive,more efficient.
(48:48):
As long as we use it correctly.
You know, I love AI because
instead of spending an hour and a half
just making sure every word is correct
and precise, and even with that rightemail going to sort, you know,
whoever, you know, teacher or assistor a principal,
(49:09):
I'm saving that time.
I can just put in to, you know, The prompt.
AI the promptthis is what I wanted to say.
Boom. It generates.
And then I can add to itor personalize it.
My copy editor hat you know, hat comes.
Comes back on.Right?
But it's such a time saverand then I can spend more of my time
(49:32):
being creative, being innovative,making connections and relationships
that are going to benefit our students.
So I definitely see, you know,AI and, and - and I mentioned robots being,
you know, those, those thingsthat can help us be more productive.
And of course, in virtual reality,I think that helps.
And again, I'm I am putting it withinthe education realm helps us with training.
(49:57):
Help us with educate - education.
You know we may not take it,be able to take a student
on, you know on a field tripon an industry visit.
But in the classroom you're impacting,you know,
more than 200 kids throughout the daybecause each class will have roughly,
you know, 30 students and then you have,you know, 6 to 7
(50:18):
periods, you're able to teach and bring.
You know,
something, you know, realyou know, to the students.
And so, being able to, train
and educate virtual realitydefinitely, lends itself there.
And then, of course,being creative and entertainment,
(50:41):
you know, virtual reality, they automate it -I know I didn't,
I didn't discuss this one with you,but this is one of my concerns.
And we're going to jump overto the ethical dilemmas side
because Geoffrey Hintonshared in an interview in 60 minutes.
He said he's also calledthe godfather of AI.
He created this way back when there were
all a bunch of these white professorsthat were all working in the
(51:04):
Ivy League schools back in the 50s,and he created AI back then in the 50s.
And he said one of the ways in whichthese systems might escape control
is by writing their own computer codeto modify themselves.
And he said, that's somethingwe need to seriously worry about.
I think that that's very insightfulof somebody
who created something to sit here and go,‘What did we do?’
(51:25):
‘What did I do?’
And be open about that type of,
like.
Responsibility that he, he didn'thave the insight
to think about at the agehe was when he, he created it.
So I sit here and I think aboutjust because we can do things doesn't
mean we should, because not everybody we,you and I, we're in education.
(51:49):
We both know that not every studentis going to be a programmer.
Not every.
Because there's mental, there's physical,there's emotional
things that happen that become part
of that student's life that - that willprohibit them from doing it.
They may not be smart enough.
They may not be emotionally prepared.
(52:10):
They could have, you know,some type of a learning disability.
So where did those people fitinto the equation
of what is a very cerebral
job, opportunities that are being createdand they're not going to be there.
Personally, I like going intoa, every once in a while,
McDonald's and having that personthat greets me, it's a person.
(52:34):
It's not me ordering at a kioskand whatever.
I like being greetedbecause those jobs allow people
to obtain thethe soft skills, power skills that we use.
The same appliesfor the person at Walmart.
Any of these jobs, noteverybody is going to be those jobs,
(52:54):
and we're going to be getting ridof those jobs.
And I'm trying to imaginewhat is the job that they could do
that concerns me.
That's the ethics side of it.You know,
and you bring up a very good point.
And unfortunately,I don't have that answer.
Sometimes I do think that,
(53:14):
we arehumans and we need human connections.
We do.
And there are,
there unfortunately, very few companieswho are saying,
who are resisting it.
So, and there are some people,because I refuse
to use the self-checkout.
(53:35):
I don't either.
I want to keep somebody employed. I want - yes.
And I want to say ‘Good afternoon.
Hello. How are you?’
You know, and so the more,
But I don't know how many of us there arethat are resisting that.
You're right, I don't know.
You know what, this is what
I was talking with somebody,and I think it was.
(53:56):
It was in Publix, and I goout the checkout, and I said, ‘I do this.’
And I said, ‘Why is it that?’ and Targettoo has begun to do this, too.
They have noticed that more peoplewant to meet
a human ratherthan do the self - self-checkout.
So they've startedputting more people back in there.
And they told me this at Targetand they told me this at Publix also,
(54:18):
that they've seenthat there's more customers that want it.
And they said it was because I was going,‘Is it a specific generation?
You know, what is that?’
And they said, ‘No, it's actually all.’,because there's research that sho - shows
that Gen Z actuallyis more aligned with Baby Boomers,
with how they want to create relationshipwith people.
(54:40):
So now you've seen this GenY, you've seen Millennial,
you've seen, you know, all of these other,generations go through some,
awakening and say, ‘You know,
yes, they were bornwith the phone in their hand.
Yes. They, they - they've been born withall of these things that makes it easier.
(55:01):
But they don't know how to write cursive.
They don't know how to do things
for themselves because they canpick up the phone and do it.
And they're beginning
to realize the importanceof dealing with a human.’, I think.
I think that's refreshing.
It is very refreshing, it is. Yeah.
And I mean, it's so happy to see,
because
(55:23):
yes, I love technology, love AI,but of course
you start watching these,
sci-fi shows,
Yeah, yeah. Oh they’re great predictors.and then you - yes,
And then you start saying, ‘Okay,
what are these robots, these beings
(55:43):
thinking for themselves.’
How are we going to treat them as?
Are we going to treat them as equals?
Are we going to treat them as slaves?
And you would hope
that we would
be so open minded.
(56:04):
But you don't know,you don't know the, the,
the evil that could be sittingright in the back, you don't know. Right there.
So it, it brings up so many.
What type of abuse?
Of course you think of Westworld and the,
the abuse that happens to the robots.Yeah.
(56:26):
Right. It's, yeah, so I
but you look at the - and I don't know,I don't know.
So I want you to go and watchBlack Mirror.
It's on Netflix. There's five seasons.Ok.
They only put five episodes outeach season, but they're a lot.
And they're really when I saythey're dark, they're - they raise
that ethical question is like,‘Just because we can we should we?’,
(56:50):
you know, can we takethe consciousness of you that became,
some kind of - you're paralyzedand you have no, you're in coma.
And we take who you are and we put you.
This is what happened in an episode.
Put you inside of a teddy bear,and the teddy bear
is the one that can talk to just you.
Who you were married to that person.
(57:12):
Oh, my.
And it's just becomesthis whole thing, like, can that happen?
I'm sure this has already happened.
I just don't think it's become mainstreamknowledge is the thing.
So I think that there'sa lot of cautionary,
tales and also, predictors
of how people are wanting to shapethe world we live in.
(57:35):
I think that's what science fiction is, isit's like, you know,
‘What do we want the world to be like?’
That's right.
Yep, yep.
Right. So, well interesting conversation.
You have anything that you want to addon to that side of ethics?
I just
know we have a lot to critical thinkingand a lot of soul searching.
Lot of soul searching.
(57:56):
That we must do.
Before,
well honestly, we had, we had to move quickbecause technology and like Like
it can start happening quickly.you think.
And you open your face, you go,‘Well what just happened?’
Because honestly in my iPhoneI don't want to download whatever the
latest versions are because I go,‘I don't know what that's going to do.’
(58:18):
So, and you have to agree to the termsif you want to have a phone, period.
And if you don't, then you have no phone.
And how are you going to call people?
Because we don't have landlines that much any more.
No we don't.
So there comes this place where, you
they let you say no,but then you don't have anything.
(58:39):
You - you will not be able to communicate
with people on social channelsor through a phone, which is not a phone.
It is a tracker.
Yeah, that's true.
It tracks you on everything you do andthen you will not be able to communicate
people with peopleif you don't have an email account, right?
If you have no phone,you have no social channels.
(59:01):
How are you going to communicatewith people? Yeah.
And then we
have things that are radio and TV
and thank goodness we can still hear radiothrough, like our car.
Things of that way and that nature.
But with anything that people don't need
TVs anymore,you can watch it on your phone.
It's not a phone.
It’s a tracker.Yes,
(59:23):
we call it a tracker.
I call it my,you know, cell or cell - my device.
Yeah, yeah.
Anyway, well,best - the best mentoring advice
that you would like to share with our listeners.
And I told you this would go fastand you were going an hour.
It kind of blows really fast.Yeah.
(59:45):
Oh, my. I can't believe for. I went about an hour. Yeah.
But the best advice I would like toleave with listeners is to,
be a lifelong learner.
Always, always, always continueto learn, be flexible and adaptable.
Yes, I would agree with that.
You never knowwhat's going to happen.
You don't know what opportunities,what options.
(01:00:05):
Now be flexibleand welcome, welcome the change.
Yeah. Welcome changes.
Yeah. You have choices.
But you know
you can either go with it and and controlwhat's within your power, right?
Or not.
So how can listeners find you?
I usually supply your LinkedIn,but do you have any other social channels
(01:00:26):
that you want peopleto reach out to you or
I mean, I know I can find your emailbecause you're a public servant.
That's right.
Yes. Email is the best way of, reaching out to me as well as LinkedIn.
I do have, a LinkedIn account.
So yes, they could definitely sharethat way.
I must admit,I don't do a lot of social media, things.
(01:00:47):
Mos people in education don't.
It’s - that’s interesting.
Now what I do post,I try and post about our students Yeah.
and events and things and their successesand, oh, yeah.
Yeah.
Okay.
Well, listeners, if you had listenedand you reach out to Shannon,
be sure to mention The Intern Whispererso she knows how you got there.
Well, I want to tell you so much.
(01:01:08):
Thank you for being a guest on the show.
This was enlightening. It was really good.My pleasure.
And I have totally enjoyed this so very,very much.
So thank you. Well, thank you.
I had a wonderful time.
It was definitely an experiencethat, a positive experience.
And I'm happy that I jumped at.
Oh, I am so glad too.
We want to thank our sponsor,Cat 5 Studios.
(01:01:30):
And thank you to our video productionand editing team,
Erika Ulman, Gavin Staley
Music is by Sophie Lloyd.
The Intern Whisperer
is brought to you by Employers 4 Change,helping hiring teams to recruit
and upskill their intern talentand employees.
Learn more at
www.e4c.techand become a member to reduce employer
(01:01:53):
bias and improve company culturethrough head and heart smart
recruiting and learning.
Subscribe to The Intern Whisperer todayand show your support by sharing our show,
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You can find The Intern Whisperer podcaston Employers 4 Change YouTube channel
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(01:02:16):
Thank you so much.
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