S7 Ep. 317 Navigating Aviation’s Future with Jessica McClintock

Episode Transcript
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There it is.

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We love that type of reminder.
So hello.
Welcome to the intern whisper.
Our show is all about who is too loud.
We're going to dial this down a little bit.
Now I made it too soft.
Okay.
This is a live show.
So I'm trying to do a few things here.
And it's either sink or swim.
It's all I can say.

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There we go.
That's better.
Okay.
So welcome to the intern whisper.
We're going to talk about the future of work and innovation and some trials that we
have with music here.
Everyone.
My name is Isabella Johnston and I am the intern whisper host as well as the founder
of employers for change.
And let me just kind of make this disappear and there it did.

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We are brought to you by employees for change.
We help hiring teams recruit and upscale interns to employees through mission values, beliefs
and core skills.
Learn more at www.e4c.tech.
The day's guest is a returning guest.
I think she's been returning several times, honestly.
I'm very excited to have her.
Her show has always been one of the second most popular shows from when she was on back

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in season four, episode 169, Jessica McClintock.
She is a woman in STEM and aviation.
Jessica was a previous guest, as I mentioned.
She is a consultant, a public speaker, a world traveler.
You're going to get to hear about her latest adventures.
Go chair at the National Business Aviation Association in BAA and a champion that focuses

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on sustainability and business aviation and a VP of leasing with Skye Harbor group.
So welcome to this show, Jessica.
Thank you.
Nice to be here.
I am so proud of all the things that you've done.
I'm proud for you.
I'm happy for you.
Yeah, definitely.
Looking forward to hearing all of these updates and having our listeners know it.

(01:59):
Because I think you're so cool.
I'm so glad I put somebody in so cool.
We're going to jump right into your new role.
I think it's really interesting that you're in aviation because I don't always see a lot
of women in these types of fields.
So we'll talk about that in a little bit.
But what is in your new role at Skye Harbor group, although you've been there a bit, and

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your former role with fewer links, how do you see technology, particularly in fuel
efficiency impacting leasing agreements and operational efficiency in the aviation industry?
Sure.
Yeah, kind of the long story short on this is, you know, it's transformative, right?
Like I mean, technology in any industry is transformative if you use it, right?

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So in aviation, there's a lot of different ways that you can kind of pinpoint where it's
the value add.
So it's going to be the supporting factor in identifying how you grow and improve future
programs, right?
So like that idea of thinking about the future and the sustainability of things is really
important.
Fuel efficiency side of things.
I mean, my prior role, I was very, very laser being focused on fuel efficiency and understanding

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what does that look like for the foreseeable future, we're going to have to think about
fuel.
So utilizing technology to identify how to make that process even more efficient to one of
the largest operating costs of a flight department is extremely important, especially
the business aviation aspect of things, but also throughout aviation as a whole.

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And then really just kind of leading into the leasing side of things, you know, technology
allows aviation real estate companies really to kind of propose new ways to meet those,
meet and really exceed the needs of both sides of an agreement, right?
So identifying what the trends are, knowing the marketplace, opening up locations in my
case, we're going to have to find different locations where, you know, there's a heavy

(03:56):
need for it.
So how do we identify that?
Well, we use technology to help us kind of narrow into where we need to find new opportunities
to grow and build and it all boils down to how operational efficiencies are really like
the key towards growing that sustainable industry, right?
So it's really about thinking about the future.

(04:17):
I find the things about aviation, it's kind of like rocket science to me and this is why
I really have a lot of respect for you because I feel like, and you fly.
So I didn't even mention that, but you fly.
I think that it's hard to do.
And I think that it takes a certain level of real confidence in knowing that, you know,

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it's kind of like flying blind to me because you're using instruments to tell you how to
fly when you don't know what's around you and it's not the same as being on the road.
So I think that the fact that you went into this as a career path is even more interesting.
And that means that when you walk in the room, I think you just must lose a lot of confidence

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when people think women don't know this field.
I mean, you're not wrong.
But I think that it's all fully complimentary to me and what I always try to present myself
as being.
It's really about, you know, elevating yourself to that level, right?
Like, for me, a bracelet that I got from one of my mentors, actually, she was my favorite

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teacher growing up in high school.
And she gave me a bracelet on my college graduation day and it says confidence on it.
So funny thing that you bring back confidence, but it's all about how you feel about yourself
and how you can project it to somebody else.
And in aviation or really any industry where, you know, it's not female dominated, you've
got to be honest with yourself.
You're going to be standing out a little bit differently.

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And, you know, no matter what, like your background is, you know, what that looks like, you have
to step in that room with confidence and you have to just, you know, fight your way to
where you need to be and show other people that look like you or that have a similar
background as you that they can do it too.
And I think that's one of the biggest things that I'm a huge proponent of is elevating

(06:13):
other people around me and watching other people succeed and being a component to that, to some
aspect, whether it's me taking that first plunge into something that's super scary and
showing that I can do it, talking about my experiences, enjoying these podcasts with
folks that like genuinely care about what our industry or not even our industry, but

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all industries, what we need to do as human beings to continue to enhance our ability to
diversify and continue to grow with our needs of, you know, empowering other people, especially,
you know, women in my case as well.
So I mean, I love that question.

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I think I jumped right into a very specific question about Sky Harbor group.
But why don't you explain to our listeners, you know, a little bit of the history, whatever
you know, whatever you want to share, like what type of a company is it?
And then how is that different from where you were before?
Because they're both in aviation, but there's something that's different, right?
Oh, absolutely.

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If you didn't know me before in my world on the FillerLink side, let me tell you.
FillerLink was my first aviation job in total.
I was a retail store manager back in the day.
And when I came in aviation, whole new language, right?
But I was going at the technology side of things and training pilots and dispatchers on how
fuel optimization worked and what tinkering an aircraft looked like and how to properly

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flight plan and fuel plan for trips, right, and business aviation, whole new language.
I learned so much through the 11 years that I actually spent with FillerLink.
Now I jump into something completely different.
In fact, Sky Harbor group is more or less a, it's a real estate company in the bottom
of the company, right?
It's an aviation real estate company.
And what we really specialize in is creating and developing land at airports where we can

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actually provide what we call as home-based campuses.
They're basically private hangar campuses for business aviation operators that need that
additional privacy, the security, the focused attention, right?
Because there's so many different times that you hear, you know, there's so many FBOs that
do so much in the world and they try to maintain the transients that come in, you

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know, the people that are coming in just to travel through versus all the home-based tenants.
Well, there's so much going on.
It's almost impossible to give the dedicated attention that you really need to.
And that just means that there's people running around trying to hurry up and trying to get
things done, right?
So what we really specialize in is really creating that focused attention for those

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business aviation operators that need their families and their people and their crew to
come into a private lobby area to wait and be patient in a very convenient and comfortable
space but also have that dedicated attention via the service that Sky Harbor is so well
known for providing.
And a lot of the airports actually, specifically, closer to your neighborhood in Opelaca area,

(09:15):
I think is one of their first campuses that were opened up.
Man, I've heard nothing but amazing service experience stories.
So I'm really excited to take on this challenge.
Way different.
I am now in charge of leasing these hairs out and these spaces out, really interacting
with a different level of client and a different aspect of aviation altogether.

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But it's a challenge I decided to take on because I want to be fully well-rounded.
I choose to be a COO and possibly a CEO of a multinational company one day.
And I'd like to continue my journey with a company that really focuses on what matters
to me, which is service and really diversifying the market and providing value add to what

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our industry really needs to succeed.
Oh, that sounds very aspirational and I love what you were saying there too.
And I can hear your passion in it also.
I love that you want to be a CEO of it also.
There's like a whole lot of you.
You loaded that one up with really everyone.
I love that one up.
So if anybody's listening out there, I will do this.

(10:22):
It'll take me a little bit to get all my groundwork, but it'll happen.
When you say private hanger campuses, over here in Orlando, we have Orlando International
Airport.
But there's hangars around it.
Is this so that private planes can go in and out or is it for commercial or is it a

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mix of both?
Good question.
So, you know, at that specific airport, for instance, you're going to have what's called
an FBO and those are usually like locations.
What does that mean?
Yeah, yeah, it's a fixed space operation.
So it's a glorified name for an FBO is like a gas station for aircraft, basically.
So when a pilot comes in and it's a private aircraft fueling station, essentially.

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So commercial always goes through the same terminals through TSA.
You go through, you wait in line, you go through with everybody else.
Aviation or business aviation actually is a combination of a lot of different faucets
of business aviation as a whole, right?
So it includes the charter aircraft, the ones that you jump on a plane with 10 people and
go to an event somewhere.

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It also includes the business executives.
Those are the people that maybe they fly in a smaller aircraft, but it's still considered
business aviation if it's a four-seater aircraft and they're flying to a location they can't
get to without using something like that.
And it's also including all of the humanitarian efforts, right?
And the air medical side of things and the transportation of goods and services.
So that whole umbrella of business aviation, they have different ways to use the transportation

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in that sense, right?
So they're using FBOs on the airport that are separated from the commercial terminals
and they're getting on there instead of going through kind of the craziness of the public,
right?
And what we offer at Sky Harbor is a percentage of that percent, right?
So now we're focused towards those people and those industry professionals that need

(12:24):
that extra level of privacy, that extra level of care, because maybe they're a high-profile
person, right?
They have very strong opinions.
Maybe they're out there in the public facing space and they need a little bit extra privacy
and a little bit extra attention, so they can't even go to that FBO side of things where

(12:45):
folks can come in with their charter or with whatever kind of organization that they travel
with.
They now need the extra even more private space.
So that's where we focus on is really being attentive to the client and that need.
I just learned a whole lot more about what it is that you're actually doing.
I know that went off script, but I'm really glad that I did because I was, okay, I understand

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it better.
Yeah.
So I can imagine this is sad that recently the gentleman that was killed, the CEO of some
company that was killed, and somebody got on a bus and did that, but it had nothing to
do with the airports.
But that would be the type of individual that would use these kind of services, because

(13:30):
he may not go on the main airlines, right?
It's not the nearest.
I mean, like in all actuality, I got to say, like, I'm not going to say that.
I remember I was at the gym when I heard that and I stopped in my tracks.
I probably almost fell off the treadmill because I'm watching this on the news and this seemingly
normal human being that's just he put himself out in a public space, right?

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Because he's a CEO of a multinational company.
And unfortunately, you generate opinions.
You generate really strong opinions from different groups, different kinds of humans out there.
And not everybody is looking for the best.
And some people have very strong opinions on what's happening in the world.
You could be wearing the color in purple and they just hate that color.

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So they're now determined to find a way to stop you.
And unfortunately, that happens in our world today.
So what do we do to kind of anticipate that growing need is we create programs around
more privacy.
We identify what those pain points are and we try to prevent things like that, right?
So in the case of Sky Harbor, we have these private hanger campuses because we know that

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there are folks that they can't go through a commercial terminal.
They can't even go through an FBO where there's people waiting to maybe there's paparazzi
waiting to take pictures of their newborn baby.
You know what I mean?
So there's a lot of aspects to the humanistic side of things that we're really, really
adhering to.
And our company is very well known for dedicating time and service to veteran communities as

(15:05):
well, being that our CEO is a former Israeli veteran actually.
And it's a significant story and very impactful actually to hear about the amount of support
that we have for folks that may need it more than you know.
So I think that that's pretty significant and I like to be a part of it.

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Yeah, that is significant.
When you have these kinds of, we'll call them celebrities or high profile people as you mentioned,
is the this type of a campus, is it also, are there police there?
Are there people to keep them safe?
That's a great question.
There's different different levels to that.

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You know, it's already pretty private.
So with that enhanced level of privacy, it makes it very difficult for you to just enter
an airport, especially like a private hanger campus.
So that's already a level of privacy.
We do offer additional add-on security services in case there's an additional need there.
You know, it kind of depends on that on that individual or that entity.

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All right.
Well, I have those where I think those are the highlight of my questions.
So now with what you were doing at Fuhler-Lings, I know you touched on it a little bit as to
how it was different.
Is there anything where they intersect?
You know, what's really interesting is I've had so much support from my Fuhler-Lings

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clients, just over in the past couple of months, it's been pouring in.
I announced that I would be with this company as of maybe a month ago, maybe not even quite.
And the amount of support through the clients has made me understand that the world of aviation
is very small.
And although I'm in a percentage of that world in the business aviation aspect of things,

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it means that everybody really comes together for the right people, for people that are doing
something positive in the industry, even if there seem to be as potential competitors,
or they're seen as people that haven't worked together directly in the past for whatever
reason.
They still come together.
And I think that's the really binding aspect of things.

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From a career perspective, it's really about the clientele.
I did work with some of the similar clientele.
You know, a lot of pilots do help make decisions on what that looks like for where their aircraft
is based.
But in all reality, it's significantly different.
And I'm not going to lie and say that I'm a commercial leasing expert.

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But in this role, I'm very, very blessed to be selected to take this journey with this
really, really so far, fantastic company that I'm excited to be a part of something
bigger for.
So in the role that you have, how many women do you feel?

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Because you probably see this with NBAA.
You know, as the role of women, are they showing up more in this industry?
Are they getting to have leadership roles like yourself?
Yeah.
I mean, heck yeah.
Like this is really an exciting part of what we're living in today is you and I know we
were talking a little bit offline earlier.
Like it's crazy how when I first started in just understanding aviation, even when I

(18:29):
was younger, and I didn't think that to travel, it didn't make any sense.
I couldn't be a pilot because that didn't make sense because I didn't look like a pilot
at that time.
You know, years later, I got an aviation, you know, 11 years ago, I started with feeler
links on a, you know, just a entry level kind of customer support.
And then I ended up becoming a manager and then I ended up overseeing more and then I

(18:52):
ended up going into the business development side and taking a step into some of the enterprise
level things and then the special projects, the military accounts, all that stuff.
And soon I became, you know, executive in that company for a STEM related company, right
in aviation.
Today, it's so crazy because you, you're not second guest every time you walk in the

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room, right?
And I think that was my biggest struggle when I first started with my, my former job with
feeler links is every time I got on the phone and it was with a pilot or somebody that predominantly
was male and you got on the phone and you had to earn their respect again.
It was like taking a step back so that you could take a step forward every single time.

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And for me, I just, I just knew that I had to do that in order to gain the respect and
I was in a new industry.
So I thought maybe like, this is why it's because I'm in a new industry.
So I got to make sure that this makes sense.
But over time, I realized that that's how it was for so many people.
And now I'm looking around and have these amazing friends and colleagues and mentors
that are, that are doing so well in the industry and so well in other industries that are also

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STEM related that were significantly dominated by male population and even even more than
that outside of just a woman and man, it's very much diversification on every level of
sorts from your background to where you are now to your identity as a human being like
economically as well.
It's so crazy how one person makes so much of an impact and then you see that your friends

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and your colleagues are now on executive level rules for these multinational companies
and these companies that are thriving and maybe even they created the company.
And, you know, one of my good friends is now the chairperson or the co-chairperson of the
NBAA's Yopro Council.
And I am so overwhelmed with how amazing this woman is.

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And so many of my friends and mentors are and it's not hard for me to identify one person
let alone like there's a dozen or more of my close friends that are now in leadership
roles in a position that was typically dominated by men.
So it's exciting, right?

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It really is and I hear the enthusiasm that you have to and I think it's true.
Women always have to go in and be able to earn the respect in the room.
And when I work with young women, whether it's with me or there, you know, and go to an event
and I said, you will have to work harder.
You are competing against all of these men that are in this role and they will take a

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man usually over the, you know, over you.
So you have to be seen.
You have to be heard.
You have to stand out in ways not because you're a woman, but because you can you're
competing against, you know, their brains, their knowledge there.
And this I think this is the reason why we have to work harder as a gender is because
when we're kids, when we're growing up, we are not taught to compete like how guys

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are.
We are given, I mean, really, we are given roles and things to do that are definitely
more domestic and nothing is wrong with that.
And I love doing those things too.
But we aren't taught to compete the same way that guys do.
And I think that's the biggest difference because I was a swimmer.
I was in sports.
I did stuff.

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I was in clubs.
And I'm sure you did too.
But it seems the way that we're treated even in that area impacts how we think when
we get into a workplace.
Yeah.
And that representation really matters because I, I sure as heck, I mean, my first goal for
a career was going to be a sports anchor.
I don't know if I told you that ever.
No, that's cool.

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It was just one of those things where I thought I would be so amazing.
And I, for one way or for one reason or another, I didn't go that direction.
I was really successful in my retail management side of things for a time in my life.
And it's that representation that I know it's that coined phrase of representation matters.
But it really does.
And so if you don't see people doing what you wanted to do, or if you always saw your

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mom take care of the household chores, or you always saw your dad do other kind of activities,
there's really no other way to identify what you should be doing.
I mean, nowadays it's not even a typical, you know, there's, there's nothing typical
about life, right?
There's nothing typical about a relationship.
There's nothing, nothing typical about an upbringing or a career.

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So I think we really as a culture need to identify that and see it as an opportunity
for us to empower ourselves to continue to grow personally and professionally in that
aspect.
So this leads in great to what it is that you do for fun.
You fly recently went to Antarctica.

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Let's talk about those two things.
What is it?
You fly.
What kind of a plane do you fly?
And you know, how much is this as a hobby?
All of those things, if you are so inclined to share.
Well, so that's all different.
That's so many things.
I got to say like being a pilot was one of the biggest goals and one of those challenges

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for me, you talked about challenges and what that looks like in aviation earlier.
And I got to say the first time that I took a solo, what they call cross country, which
is actually, you know, you basically go 50 miles out, 50 miles back and you land at three
separate airports and that's your cross country.
I did that from Van Nuys to Bakersfield, which is over the mountains, by the way, you get

(24:30):
to Bakersfield, you land, you have to turn back around, take off over the mountains again,
and then come back to two other airports to land separately.
And the thrill and challenge of that mentally is really, really, really what drove me on
that.
I wanted to represent myself as a strong and confident woman that can do pretty much anything

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I want to.
And I don't have as much science and math background as what I would hoped, you know,
growing up.
I was very much in the creative mindset of things and, you know, writing and drawing
and that kind of thing.
And when I was taking that solo cross country and I was over the mountains and I've told
this to a couple of my friends and so they know that this is until at the same every

(25:16):
time.
It's like you're over the mountains and I was 8,500 feet and I realized that I can't turn
to the side.
Like, I can't turn the car off the side of the road in a sense and just give up.
I couldn't do anything that would, you know, be a help button.
Like I couldn't press a help button and have somebody just magically appear in my aircraft

(25:38):
and help me land the airplane.
I couldn't be scared.
I didn't have time to be scared.
It's a luxury, right?
You did not have that as a luxury anymore.
And right.
And it was just the most, it was one of the most empowering moments I think that I've
ever had is that specific moment when I'm over the mountains and I literally know I won't
be able to land for another 10, 15 minutes and I have to make it through and it's going

(26:00):
to be up to me to get me down.
So I mean, the cost, the cost of an experience, I mean, you weigh it out.
I'll talk about Antarctica a little bit because I mean that plays in the same, same
rum of things.
The cost of an experience is priceless to me.
So I may not spend money on certain things in my life that are luxuries on a day to day

(26:21):
basis, but I invest in my experiences and my understanding of cultures and who I want
to be as a human being.
But also, I mean, you live one life.
So why not?
So I do participate in a flying club, which is really fun.
I am trying to participate even more with my upcoming certificate.
I'm going from there, but other than that, flying is a joy, but there's a lot of programs

(26:48):
out there that will help you get to that level if there's folks that actually want to use
it as a career in like more of a money, money, conjuring aspect of things, which I do not.
I will not get paid for flying.
I am simply doing it because of the joy and the excitement and the empowerment of it.
Antarctica, I can talk about that a little bit.
I mean, I don't know who else.

(27:09):
Let's do.
I want to hear that.
It looks like you're not going to stand a cold.
How do you plan for that?
Yeah.
So what's really funny is, you know, I was born in Alaska.
I was born in Fairbanks, Alaska, actually, which makes it feel like I should be ready
for cold, but I've been living in California, Southern California for almost 10 years at
this point on and off, right?

(27:31):
And so I'm a baby when it comes to cold and I didn't want that part of this trip.
I wanted to like take out the coldness, but still enjoy the journey, if that made sense.
It's something I've always wanted to do.
I've been to six of the other continents, right?
And I, like I said, I put money towards experiences and I always go on a journey.
If somebody asked me for something like that, I will jump to it.

(27:53):
And I saw this opportunity.
It came up and it was the perfect timing and I took it.
So it was through National Geographic Linblad Expeditions, great company, actually.
Linblad has a huge history in being really the father of this travel.
The founder of Linblad back in the day was one of the ones that started the whole, this
expedition travel that people go on these cruise ships and whatnot.

(28:15):
And now his son is actually the CEO of the Linblad Expeditions, which funny enough, I
actually met him on this ship because it was an inaugural trip that I signed up for.
I had no idea.
And it was one that was their first version of, check this out, it relates to aviation,
which I was very proud of.
You actually take a ship from Usoya, Argentina, the southernmost tip of Argentina, through

(28:40):
Drake Passage, which is a very interesting passage.
You need to look it up.
It's very cool.
It's historically very famous.
And then we got through to the different inlets and whatnot and the bays over in Antarctica
and we're exploring on land and outside and all over the place.
And then you fly from King George Island on an aircraft, you fly on an airplane back

(29:06):
into South America.
So it was actually pretty cool.
So it was the inaugural kind of trip where you take a ship and then you won't fly back.
So you know, I had to do that aviation lover here.
So I made that happen.
Yeah, I guess in preparation for all of this, it was understanding, you know, what had
taken place in the history of exploration and knowing what I really wanted to get out

(29:31):
of this, which for me was I was transitioning one role into this new role in my career.
I was transitioning kind of my mindset on things like leaving a company after a decade
isn't an easy thing to do.
And it doesn't feel great at first.
And you're excited about the new opportunity, but you also want to like kind of, I don't
know, almost like you're almost in a bereavement period.

(29:54):
I don't know.
It's a change.
It's a huge change.
So Antarctica for me was more about how I was personally changing and the journey of
through something that I wanted to explore and the adventure behind it and this empowerment
of being me and challenging myself for something that I wasn't going to wait for a bucket list.

(30:16):
I wanted to make this happen and I was going to figure out a way and I did it.
And it allowed me to reflect on my time with my prior company as well.
And the really focus on the direction that I was going.
Because you look back just to understand and you look forward to continue to grow yourself,
right?
So I think the impact outside and how gorgeous ice is, like you won't even believe how gorgeous

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ice is.
You'll look at ice in your cup a different way.
But it was the people that were inside the ship that really made the huge impact for me
and the conversations I had and the expertise and the life guidance and the mentorship
and these people that have come, like why in the heck would anybody want to be cold?
Like what you said, why would anybody want to be at the coldest place?
And I actually jumped into the water, by the way, along with some of my friends I met on

(31:03):
the ship.
So I was physically in the Antarctic water.
But it was just, it was a paradigm shift for me in confidence and empowerment and who
I am, who I'm going to be.
And yeah, thanks for asking.
I love that trip.
Yeah.
I have more questions about it though.
I was really like, I was talking, is Antarctic, Antarctica always cold?

(31:25):
And I said, no, it's not.
And I thought, well, I thought it was always snowy.
So I don't know.
And then you were saying that you went in, you know, you were by ship going in, but you
came back by plane and I'm going, well, how can it seems like it's freezing?
So I don't know how planes are moving because cars, you know, the antifreeze and stuff.
I mean, you have that, but it is possible for a vehicle to get frozen and not be able

(31:51):
to move.
So I have so many questions about that.
Like, what was the temperature like?
Tell me what the temperature was when you were there and how you were traveling.
And if you were, you said you were on, it was a cruise ship, right?
You said?
Yeah, an expedition ship.
Yep.
Okay.
So I don't even know how an expedition ship is different from a regular cruise ship.

(32:12):
I need just a little bit more context.
The more context.
Okay, absolutely.
So taking you back to it, it is cold, but it's cold and life is still sustainable.
It is not cold to the point where you're going to freeze when you walk outside.
So it's just we talk a New York, Boston, cold, we're talking more cold than that.
More cold than that.
And gosh, I could pull up the temperatures and whatnot at one point, but you'll have

(32:36):
to people out there will have to do so.
But it's definitely like, if you saw any of my photos or anything like that, I'm outside.
I'm cold booking, but I'm still able to interact with the world.
That's the best way I could put it.
I jumped in the ocean.
I mean, like, and jumping in the ocean, the biggest thing for me was my feet were really
cold, but everything else you have all this adrenaline.

(32:59):
So I don't really think you really care or you really think about it too much.
But yes, transportation through the expedition ship.
So basically what's the difference is I've actually never been on a cruise ship in the
typical sense, you know, going through, you know, the typical Norwegian cruise lines
or whatever.
But I believe that they're usually a lot bigger to my understanding.
They have a large, you know, people on there.

(33:21):
This ship, I think, gosh, I would have to look at it to be exact, but it was probably
around 160, 180 people, something like that.
That's wasteful.
Yeah.
Oh, yeah.
And you have to.
So there's guidelines to this too.
And that's what I what I looked up before.
And I'm not claiming to be an expert on the guidelines, but from what I understand is you
have to have a ship capacity of a certain limitation of people in order to get docked

(33:43):
to some of the ice locations because there was a point where I believe it was Charlotte
Bay that we actually came up to ice on this, the ship and they moved into ice all the way
into it.
And basically you could see the ice cracking underneath us because it was moving as the
ship continued to move forward and you dock the boat there, the ship, right?

(34:05):
And the crew members got off to make sure that the ice was still frozen enough and safe
enough for us to walk on crazy because we actually got off the ship onto the ice directly,
the ship that's over ocean water in Antarctica.
And we're walking around the frozen ocean right now.
So that was something that is totally possible.
Now I never drove a vehicle.

(34:27):
I never saw a vehicle out there.
There's nothing that I noticed to be like that.
It seemed to be a lot of air transport.
If they needed to get in somewhere, they would use some sort of air transport or ship, right?
The air transportation back, they were provided by Antarctic Airways, which I think was DAB
Airways.
I forget off the top of my head, I think it was DAB is in Bravo.

(34:51):
But what they were able to do is they were testing out this route to make sure that a
weather stays in place, right?
Because weather is a huge factor when you're trying to plan a trip via aircraft, right?
Or via ship as well, but really aircraft because you have all these different elements you
have to consider like what you're talking about.
But is it possible?
Absolutely.

(35:12):
You don't see ice every single place of Antarctica.
It is, there is ice, there is snow, there are those kind of elements, but there's also,
you know, we walked on an active volcano area as well.
And you can see all the stones and the pebbles everywhere.
And it wasn't all ice everywhere.
You can see the steam kind of coming up, which was really fantastic.

(35:34):
You know, so I, yeah, I mean, long story short, very cold, yes.
Is it doable?
Yes.
Was it a lot of fun?
Amazingly had yes.
Would I ever do it again?
Yes, but I would come, I would probably prepare a little bit differently and I would anticipate
a different kind of a journey next time.

(35:56):
So yes.
Did that answer most of it?
Because I was still Googling, do people use cars?
Very few it said.
And I'm going, well, how do people travel while they're on, and they're while you're
talking and I'm listening to you.
I'm going, I have so many questions.
Oh, I didn't.
We'll catch up again.
Yeah.
Because I'm like, I don't know, I'm listening to you and I go, I would do this.

(36:18):
I would do it because it just sounds incredible.
And I'm thinking to myself, well, you must not see pollution.
You maybe, maybe you do, but not in the same way you do here.
Maybe it's, it's something that it feels so pure and clean and devoid of what we have

(36:39):
here in the commercial world, right?
It's got to be very, I think, humbling and just a moment of awe.
Absolutely.
And it's from the sustainability side of things.
I know Lindblad expeditions is huge on sustainability too.
And he spoke to that quite a bit.
But yes, the, the, I mean, the basics of things is you, you can't do anything on that land.

(37:07):
That land is shared land, right?
It's not one specific country doesn't own Antarctica, for instance.
There's not an entity that owns it.
It's very interesting, some of the procedures and whatnot.
I mean, like, you know, usually if you go hiking, you, you, if you, if you drink too much water,
you have to, you know, find a tree, right?
For lack of care words.

(37:28):
In this case, you can't do that, right?
Like they actually contain even the science stations.
They contain all of, all of that matter and ship it back to the states and whatnot.
Yeah, they ship back waste and whatnot because it's so important to maintain what, what we
have over there.

(37:49):
And it's, it is very pristine and it is very eye opening and there's so many things that
you could probably research on it that I can't do.
It's justice.
But something like this expedition, I would 10 out of 10 recommend because they put so
much care and energy into the education and into the understanding of not only the, the

(38:10):
environmental aspects of things, but the scientific aspect of things, the, you know,
the education behind how we got to this point, what this looks like long term and, you know,
addressing a lot of the questions that people have from actual experts.
So I was really impressed by that entire experience.

(38:31):
Yeah.
Yeah, I, now I really want to go.
Okay.
So at the moment and acknowledge our sponsor, Cat5 Studios will be right back.
The intern whispers brought to you by Cat5 Studios.
So what, so creating games and videos for your training and working in the center of this

(38:52):
world is a cat-bound thing.
So here we are back to the second half of the show.
Jessica McClintock is our guest today.
And we're discussing the aviation industry as it relates to women.
You know, the two companies that she has spent her life in and just totally different rules.

(39:17):
I like the fact that you mentioned, I'm going to take one little tiny step back.
The gentleman that owns the company you're with is from Saudi Arabia, I think you said.
Well, actually he, he's lived in Israel for a period of time.
He's served in the Israeli armed forces.
Yes.
I find that fascinating and you said he wrote a book.
So I don't know if you want to give him a shout out, but this is the time to do that

(39:40):
if you want.
Absolutely.
Um, actually I was, um, it's on my Spotify account.
So if you don't like reading, um, you can certainly, um, take a peek at it or listen
to it, but it's called God is in the crowd 21st century Judaism and it's by Tal Keenan
and, um, definitely take a peek at it because he's a, he's a fantastic mind and, um, really

(40:03):
inspirational human beings, um, from what I know.
And, um, hopefully he doesn't listen to this and hears me, um, talking, but, but it's very
interesting to me.
So, um, and it, it explores a different culture that I haven't actually truly been, um, Marston.
So my, my whole idea is understanding more than what I was grown to understand, just

(40:24):
like what we were talking about before.
So anyways, there you go.
Yeah.
Thanks for that.
Yeah.
Sharing.
So let's talk about 2030.
What do you think?
And these are all opinion questions.
So there's nobody's holding you to it, honestly, but you know, everybody has opinions.
So what do you think 2030 is going to be looking like?
Because people are trying to get flying cars.

(40:46):
I mean, yeah, flying cars.
So I'm going, well, how is that going to impact aviation?
What kind of a license do we have to get?
And even though that is not directly your industry, I'm still wondering like, it's kind
of have an impact.
So I don't know what does 2030 look like in, in the aviation industry and these private
hangars, maybe that's where we get like car hangers to be able to do this.

(41:10):
Yeah.
I mean, there's so many directions that we can go with this.
Um, you know, artificial intelligence and machine learning have been key components to
the growth of the technology in our industry.
Um, specifically for my background, we used a lot of applied AI in the technology of the
fuel uplift optimization.
So that came a long way from spreadsheets and from manual input, right?

(41:33):
And that was only the course of less than 10 years.
We have, you know, five years to go at this point to get to 2030.
And it's, um, you know, it's going to continue to grow.
And I think that we're, we're going to be somewhat patient with the overall view from,
you know, our direct impact.

(41:55):
Um, and I think that's going to be, um, necessary because of the growth.
Um, I don't, uh, the best way to put this is, look, it's not going to change overnight and it's not
going to change immediately and, um, it impactful directly to most people in five years, but it
will eventually continue to touch on all of your different kinds of elements in your day to day.

(42:18):
So from a predictive side of things, you know, in aviation, it's going to be predictive on the
maintenance side on the optimizing the fuel uplift on understanding the optimization of the
legs, right?
So the legs as in where the aircraft is flying to next and knowing why it should be based out of
one location over another, what the flight paths will look like.
Um, I think that, um, there's a good chance there's going to be a lot more electric, um, you know,

(42:43):
aircraft out there.
Joe, B aviation has made huge, you know, advancements in that space, which is really exciting to see
because I feel like they were almost laughed at the first time that they showed up on a stage
and said of his grandeur ideas of this, um, you know, technology and aviation.
Um, a lot of people didn't really think it was going to be possible.
And here we are today.

(43:04):
I think from a sustainability stage, that's going to, um, you know, start to change quite a bit too,
because there's a push for, you know, the net zero emissions by 2050.
And, you know, that's going to accelerate the adoption of what we, what we know as what's called
SAF, which is sustainable aviation fuel.
Um, that's going to continue to push that, um, as well as the electric and hybrid electric aircraft.

(43:27):
So you already see examples like that right now, just how they continue to improve, just like, you know,
you saw, I mean, there's many more that came before this, but, you know, there's like record players,
and there's, you know, there's cassette players and their CDs, and then they went to it be threes.
And now it's directly on your phone.
All you do is like everything.

(43:48):
It just streams.
Yeah.
Oh, absolutely.
And, and so now you're just looking at something that will that we've created something great.
And now it's continuing to enhance it to make it even better long term and scale it.
And, um, I'm excited to see.
I mean, look, I hope that we're in the Jetsons one day because that that's kind of my epitome of what, like,

(44:12):
I wish that we could go floating around in cars all day long like that.
And maybe my industry and the sky harbor side of things will will help provide something from an
infrastructure standpoint, you know, decades from now that will enhance that.
But, um, it's exciting.
I think it's just exciting.
So fun fact about the Jetsons.
I use this.
I was a speaker at a Google DevFest in the state.

(44:36):
And I was talking about ethical use of AI and how we need to take that seriously when we're looking for
careers.
And so I had used that as a reference in my presentation.
I had asked how many people knew the Jetsons and I'm surprised you would even know it.
But the Jetsons is actually streaming on Hulu and you can watch it the whole season.

(45:00):
You can binge it.
And it's not that many years of Jetsons.
Anyway,
did you ever watch Jetsons versus not Jetsons meets Flintstones?
Do you remember that one?
There's a movie on it was like one of my favorite movies.
So anyway, yes.
And they actually on on Hulu, they have the Flintstones and they have the Jetsons.

(45:21):
And so you can stream them and watch them and I went, wow, this is a and there.
I went, where did I only watch like, I don't know the first two years of it or something of the Jetsons.
But anyway, the point being is that when I did some research on it, I went, wow, this was put out in 1963.
And when it came out, this was actually not for children.

(45:44):
It was really meant for more of adults because it's all futuristic.
I mean, kids watched it, right?
We were kids.
Yeah.
That's the one.
Yeah.
But the whole thing about it is I went, those conversations that they had, they were for adults.
When I look at it, now I went, this is blowing my mind.
And I went, they had everything that we talked about.

(46:06):
They had microwaves.
They didn't have that in the 60s.
They and all of this came out of the brilliant scientists that were at MIT and and Harvard and all of the schools that are in that northeastern area of the world that we have in the United States.
So I was sitting there thinking about and by the way, they were all white people just saying, and men.

(46:29):
There was no other demographic in there.
So they were doing all of these cool things.
And that's where AI was created.
And that's where we have AR and VR virtual reality, augmented reality, that, you know, anything cars that could fly, they were they were thinking of these things back at that time.
And so they created cartoons built around these ideas.

(46:50):
And then that's where they move even more and they come become the movies that we began to watch.
And I thought, you know, the people that were doing that, they truly were nerds in the best possible way.
They were very futuristic.
They were thinking about how things could be.
You know, they created computers at that time too.
And I went, that's how old AI is because Jeffrey Hinton, he's the creator of AI.

(47:16):
He's called the Godfather.
He was interviewed on 60 minutes last year.
And he said, one of the ways in which these systems, AI systems might escape control is by writing their own computer code to modify themselves.
And he said, and that's something we need to seriously worry about because not because of the fact that maybe the computers can do it, but because it's people that create this and can create evil out of it.

(47:44):
Absolutely.
No, you brought up a great point.
I mean, I think with all things that we do as human beings, we know that we're not, I mean, here's the thing.
Like we're not technology inherently.
We are, we are a being that is really the greatest thing that's ever happened, right?

(48:05):
We, we can create life and we are now simulating that life through this, you know, entering of AI and VR and everything.
Right?
Yeah.
So it's like, we have to be aware that oversight needs to happen.
I think there is, you know, AI has in all these different technologies really have added so much immense value.

(48:29):
And I could, I could speak to the value that it's added in all of our lives.
I mean, we're on a computer screen right now and face to face real time.
And I mean, that wasn't even possible.
Like when I was born, let alone, you know what I mean?
Like things have changed so, so quickly.
But both, you know, the value that it's added is so significant, but the, the possibility of what it could create in a, in a very positive manner.

(48:57):
We should also consider that it can do the exact same in a negative manner.
So just like how social media has different kind of aspects to it, where people think that there's a lot of good to it.
Well, there's also some negative that you got to be aware of.
And I think number one is just being aware that things like this can happen and no ship is unsinkable and no technology is, you know, is perfect.

(49:21):
Just like none of us human beings are considered perfect.
We have to employ some sort of oversight to everything that is being created.
And, you know, although there's, there's some interesting points to what he's brought up in, in, you know, this creation of technology, but also this almost fear.
For it, it's, it's something that I think it's, it's our responsibility to identify proactively what we can help kind of mitigate prior to a negative outcome, you know, happening, which I'm sure we've seen some already in the past, but from it kind of taking over as, as he's saying in, you know, still utilizing and harnessing the power for the good and understanding how to.

(50:10):
You know, put boundaries around that because it shouldn't be the answer to laziness. It shouldn't be the answer to all questions and every solution needs to include AI and and and and VR and everything.
It should be a resource to allow us to continue to grow and it should be something that adds value.

(50:36):
And when it stops adding value or when we don't have control over it, I would, I would probably say that it's not, it's not helping us anymore.
So we need to find a really, really healthy understanding of what was created, how to maintain it and and how to really, really have that sense of responsibility with that oversight element.

(51:00):
Yeah, there's a lot that goes and you know, currently I even googled this last week to see, you know, is there some ethical body that's overseeing, you know, ethics and AI and they are governance.
It was called governance is what they used it. And they still, they're, they're trying to figure this out still, but yet it's here and they didn't, they didn't plan for that.

(51:24):
Yeah, about that when they created it. And to me, I'm sitting thinking, well, that was kind of bad. You know, I usually go with, for me, I go, what's the best thing that can happen? What's the worst thing? And, you know, oh, yeah, if I create this, it could cause, you know, people to die.
Okay, you know, there's that as a possibility. We had that with autonomous driving cars, right? And people created them, but they didn't think about the fact that, oh, maybe we should test them some more, not with living anything, not with living creatures in there or humans.

(51:58):
But we should continue to test it to see. I've been on those self driving buses here in Orlando and they still have two people that are driving this car in the back are driving this bus.
And I said, and they're going, okay. And they're just there and they're just watching. And then they saw that somebody was going to dart out and the bus slammed on its brakes. And so we all stopped and everything. But I went, would a human have seen that better than where we're writing in this bus? And I wanted to get out.

(52:27):
Because I was.
So I have the same thoughts about, you know, flying cars and about AI and I go, yeah, we need to nail this down now.
So we, you know, it's that fight of a lot of us don't like the regulations behind things. Like when a regulation comes out, you're like, oh, that's the R word. I don't want that. I don't want to like conform to the regulatory side of things. And you're like, oh, it's bad and all this stuff.

(52:54):
And really, it's, it's there for a lot of reasons. And most of the reasons are for safety.
And for continued, you know, success and growth of things. Yeah, safety is huge. So, you know, I can't stress that enough. And that's one of the number one things in aviation to keep us safe is thinking about these things. And sometimes we forget to lay out the foundation before we get this really great idea. And then that great idea.

(53:18):
Snowballs and create something bigger. And now we're kind of backstepping a little bit to try to figure out how to catch back up. So,
So if we have autonomous driving cars, are there plans to have planes that can fly without a pilot?
Oh, I'm sure. Yeah, I mean,
I don't know.
You can not drones, for instance, right? You know,

(53:41):
Drowned at the bottom with a little remote.
Yes, there's somebody at the bottom with little remote on some of those things. Yes.
But it's, you know, it would be similar to some aspect. And I'm sure that there's different stages to these things and in no means am I an expert on it. But it's
The technology is significantly enhanced with the autonomous vehicles. And I don't see why they want it moving into, you know, an aviation element. But that's not going to be for so long on the mainstream, at least.

(54:11):
They'll probably do tests and experiments along the way, especially because of the regulations being so stringent in the aviation side. In any kind of transportation, it becomes pretty stringent, I would say.
I don't think that our world thought that some of these technologies like AI and like,
You know, like the VR side of things were going to be in relation to transportation to some aspect. And they're starting to see how it's folding into it.

(54:40):
So now that's popping a concern, but transportation has always been very heavily regulated to my understanding.
I would say, though, on the aviation front.
I think that there's a huge opportunity to invest a lot of resources and,
and, you know, understanding into what does that look like from a governance aspect of things.

(55:06):
And really have some have some of the smartest brilliant people in the world that have already done so much. I mean, you see SpaceX and you see these different programs that are finding ways to space privately, you know.
Utilizing those really brilliant people and the funds that they're able to conjure up and add it towards the sustainability of programs like that. And what does that look like?

(55:33):
You know, yeah, they send rockets and things of that nature with no humans or living beings in it robots, if you will, they'll send that out there and I won't. Well, that's fine because I'm not worried about something crashing into me, but it actually could because, you know, there's space debris and space debris can eventually come down to our atmosphere.

(55:54):
And I'm always surprised that we don't have more that, you know, lands in on earth, but that's neither here nor there. Anyway, I think we pretty much covered ethical dilemmas here and I feel like you covered the plus sides of what AI can do. Is there anything you want to add?
Man, I just think that there's, um, there's, um, I think that there's a lot of people who are going to be able to do that.

(56:23):
I mean, I think it's very good to have questions. I think that's how I'll put it. It's very good to have questions and it's very good to continue to push against what you are told to know.
So I think if I could give any advice to folks that might be listening and maybe similar to me, not an expert on AI, but certainly have either concerns or expectations or, you know, certain things that excite them about what this looks like for the future or what they think that should be looking like

(56:52):
for the watch Jetsons like us and think that everybody should be flying around in Carson.
I just, I just think that the biggest thing that I suggest is push back and ask questions. Don't always take the first answer.
The first answer, even if I give you an answer, push back and say, well, wait a second. Can you explain this a little bit deeper or is there a resource from which you just spoke so I can actually investigate on my own?

(57:17):
Because sometimes we're too quick to go to lazy route and sometimes the lazy route is what gets us into dilemmas and dilemmas end up causing danger and safety issues and so many other things that are terrible in this world because we decided to take that first answer instead of really diving
into, well, let's push back on this, be the devil's advocate here and identify what are the potential issues here. Can we solve this with something that we currently have access to?

(57:43):
Do we have to build something to surround this with some sort of environment while we test it out or, you know, that kind of mindset where you're always thinking proactively instead of reactively is going to be really key to a lot of this involvement of technologies in our future.
Yeah, I like that quite a bit. And my next question was, what is the best mentoring advice you have for listeners about aviation industry? But I kind of feel like you just said it. But you might have something else because honestly, I think that no opinion that is shared on my show is like a foolish one or silly or anything like that because everybody can have an opinion.

(58:27):
And that one opinion could bring something that somebody never thought about. And that's why I feel like the questions are still relevant because you don't have to be a rocket scientist to solve something.
You could be an average person. You could be somebody that just doesn't even, you know, have a career anywhere close to that. You know, let's, let's nothing disrespectful.

(58:49):
But let's say it's sanitation. Sanitation matters when going to space. So if somebody said something in that instance, it could be like, wow, we hadn't thought about that because they didn't ask the right person.
Absolutely. And I think that answers the question right there is like, you know, for me personally, I will always identify as both a mentor and a mentee, right, because like, you know, there's that phrase of like when you stop learning you're you're dying, right?

(59:16):
Like you, you really, really have to continue to be a student in the world, right? And you have to continue to learn from your experiences and learn through technologies really right and also also, I mean, other people and their perspectives.
So there's all those elements that you really want to learn through. It can't be just one sided in it. And mentorship to me is extremely important. I mean, you mentor so many people with this program and with what you do and what you continue to build because you have a passion for helping other people and growing businesses and growing support through all of the offerings and your experience and your personality and your ability to be confident and beyond these podcasts and introduce new people to new topics.

(01:00:01):
And I think that's extremely empowering. And sometimes we forget how empowering maybe one phrase, like what you said, you know, maybe a sanitation worker heard this today and said, you know what, I've always dreamt about being in a program that allows me to help with like NASA activities.
Well, great. Maybe you actually created something that is around that and it's significantly impactful because we may not have seen it as that impactful, but you just created something that

(01:00:30):
we can think about in a different way. And that goes that goes for every industry and that goes for every person out there. But yeah, I think just being being a continued student is really, really important to not having all the right answers and being okay with that.
Because that's why I call the show. Well, not originally the interim whispers what somebody else called me to be able to help employers, you know, get more out of their interns.

(01:00:58):
But I now see it as it's because we're all interns in life now, none of us, you know, to your point, we're all needing to be a mentor and a mentee.
We're all to make sure that we question and we're proactive and we need to just not just sit and realize that, oh, no, everything is changing now now.

(01:01:20):
And you have got to be dialed in with what's happening.
Absolutely. Yeah.
So how can our listeners contact you we you know I give you, I give them your LinkedIn, which by the way, it's not her name little secret. It says it's amazing. Wait, it's amazing.

(01:01:43):
Jess.
Yeah, I have to look at it like all around.
It's amazing. So nobody you, you really have to know you to be able to know. Oh, that's how I find her. Yeah.
I mean, you can, you can find me on there. I'm always active on well, most of the time I'm active on LinkedIn. I really like to promote.

(01:02:05):
And I think that's actually different organizations, you know, community service as well as mentorships, internships, anything that I can really help provide some sort of joy to another human I'll try to promote that.
We're all share some personal stories that to me I mean business is personal.
So a lot of what I share on there has to do with what I'm working on project wise or some way that I think somebody else can benefit from it. So that's perfect. I have my email.

(01:02:35):
I'll have that included here too. It's just my first initial last name at right.
Okay, I will put it down because you asked for it. Okay, you said first initial yes.
First initial last name at sky Harbor with a B. Oh, you are.
Yeah, so I'm I'm pretty much everywhere.

(01:02:58):
And you can check out the company website too if you have any questions about what I discussed I'm fairly new to the company so maybe you'll find some more information online at their website as well.
And social feeds right.
Yeah, I'm pretty sure everywhere they look, you know, digitally, they can find things.
I'm sure all of that technology.

(01:03:20):
Yes, yes. Well, I want to thank you so much for being a guest today and I'm going to, you know, bid you a do.
But I look forward to having more conversations offline and definitely I follow you on LinkedIn.
Yeah, absolutely. Thank you so much. Pleasure as always.
Thank you.

(01:03:41):
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Music is by Sophie Lloyd.
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(01:04:06):
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