Sarah Patterson is the founder of CERASart and an Expressive Art Coach based out in California. She's been practicing expressive art for more than 15 years, helping organizations and individuals use art to express, explore, process, and heal. In this episode, Sarah talks about the difference between expressive art and traditional art therapy, how expressive art can be a tool for self reconciliation, fostering cultural humility, and using art to go deeper and heal.
Work with Sarah Patterson, in person or virtually:
https://cerasart.com/
sarah@cerasart.com
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Episode Transcript
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(00:14):
Intersection, a podcast program about intersectionality,
intersectional identities, and intersectional journeys both
professionally and personally. And as we all know, they are all
interconnected. As a quick reminder, we are in
the middle of June and we know June is a very, very
(00:35):
intersectional and busy month. We know June is Pride Month.
We know June is Immigrant Heritage Month as well as PTSD
Awareness month. We also know June is a men's
mental health awareness month. And today's conversation is
actually really relevant to our mental well-being and mental
(00:59):
health. And also the last weekend we
just had Father's Day. And of course tomorrow is
Juneteenth and then the day after is going to be summer
solstice. So June has just a lot going on
and busy, busy, busy. So hope folks are taking care of
each other and celebrating each other.
(01:20):
And I want to welcome our guest today, Sarah Patterson.
Sarah is a a new friend I think Sarah leaves saying California
and we connected via a mutual friend Danielle who's also a
practitioner and Sarah is the practitioner and founder at
(01:44):
Sarah Art it spells Cera. S.
ART. And she's been practicing
expressive art for almost 15 years.
So I want to invite Sarah to introduce herself.
Welcome, Sarah. Amazing.
Thank you so much for having me.And I'm just want to piggyback
real quick with that amazing introduction to the month of
(02:06):
June. When you put it all together
like that, it's really relevant,amazing to have a conversation
like today with all of those very hot topics in the forefront
of the landscape that we are navigating.
Really terrific. So thanks for having me.
It's a pleasure to be here. Thank you, Sarah.
(02:26):
Yeah, When we talked, I feel there was a lot of like
alignment in our conversation. There was just a lot of like
shared kind of value and interest in our personal
practices and of course professional practices.
And. I just wish we had met sooner,
but I'm sure you know we met nowfor a reason.
(02:50):
Right, right. Gotta believe.
That could you share a little bit?
I mean, you've been practicing for almost 15 years and probably
before that you had already beenpracticing, just not as a
business operator, right? So I would love for you to share
maybe a little bit on your journey getting into healing
Wellness and using art as a tool.
(03:12):
I would love to share that I'm Iwill say it'll, it'll go back in
time a little bit. Really from where I come from,
my family of origin, my mother is an artist.
She was a Potter like always worked with clay as her medium
and comes from a family of artists.
My grandfather was a scenic painter for I think it was
(03:32):
Paramount Studios. I mean just hands in the arts.
And when I found with my mother,the influence was my first job
in high school, I worked for herbusiness at home making
handcrafted goods out of clay. And she was a religious artist,
so there was always meaning making woven into her art form.
And as I grew up, right, and sort of came into my own, I
(03:57):
found I was facing a time of my life where I just needed some
further development. So I was seeking, you know,
looking into other things I could do.
This is back in 2005. And I found a program, it was a
certificate program predominantly for therapists,
and it was called expressive artTherapy certification.
(04:19):
And I didn't have to be a therapist, which was great
because my background at that time, I was just, I think I was
about 7, maybe actually six years out of college with a
bachelor in health education. So I was, you know, Wellness
health was sort of a foundational pathway for me and
seeking more, something different for myself, just for
(04:44):
personal interest. I landed into this program and
it was a commitment of a year. We had one massive weekend
retreat every month for 12 months.
And it was a small group. There were twelve women.
And by the end of it we would have journeyed through all these
different modalities of expressive art.
And the whole concept was in a therapeutic relationship where
(05:08):
we have a client and practitioner, how are we meeting
the needs of the client with getting the individual to go
deeper with themselves, to have self reflection and to go
through transformation, right. And so the modalities of
expressive art become a gateway that allow people to go into
(05:29):
that state of self reflection. And so for me, I was able to be
eligible for this program because there was a category for
educators. And what I've learned since, I
mean, there's, you know, national organizations for this
kind of stuff, but back in 2005,it was not mainstream knowledge,
(05:50):
you know, expressive art versus traditional art therapy.
And it just landed beautifully with I was at my life.
It gave me new language for my own self.
And at that time I was in the early parts of a relationship
with my now husband of 18 years.We were not married yet.
And my husband is a different race than I am.
(06:13):
He is an African American and wethrough our journey together
have learned about massive differences, right?
This is what happens when you get 2 people who are different
that come together. And what I find over and over is
this background I now have with the arts has just been a massive
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tool in deeper understanding of my own self, deeper
understanding of my spouse. And of course that feeds into
the world around me. So origin story, the utilizing
art comes really through the influence of my family and then
it wove beautifully into my own pursuit of self development and
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then landed into being a sort ofa side hustle where I just
thought, you know, there's something I can do here for
other people in our community. And so I started a built
business, Sarah's art. And it's a funny name, right?
And it's kind of got some parts that are just playful behind the
name of it. Obviously, it sounds like my
(07:18):
name, but it's spelled differently and it really
morphed into an acronym that I think is so relevant in the work
I'm doing. But it's cultures, environments,
respected and shared art, right?So Sarah's art, most people
don't know that because it's very long.
So I just go with Sarah's art as, you know, just the way of
(07:38):
referencing it. But it has certainly a deeper
meeting behind the work that I do.
It really is about bringing people together through the art
process for feeling safe, for celebrating our differences and
our similarities and being curious through a connection,
(08:00):
right? That that's really, I think what
grounds me in my work. And obviously since my origin
with this influence of art, I'vepursued more education.
I now have a master's in mental health and Wellness and achieve
that during the season of COVID.And I kept thinking, this is so
amazing that my personal interests are now being
(08:24):
illuminated on the landscape of the world.
We're navigating that here we are today where mental health
and well-being is at the forefront of organizations of
individual pursuits. I mean, it's, you can't go
anywhere without hearing about it.
It's a both a problem and a solution.
And so I find my work inexpressive.
(08:45):
Art, specifically in the corporate sector is innovative.
It's it's still, you know, I still meet and met with some
resistance because it's art. You know, people are threatened
by art. But beautiful thing is once they
realize it's a tool and it's expressive, it's more about
(09:06):
process over product. You we open doors and it's just
a beautiful thing to witness where people go and take it and
what can, what can be changed because of it.
That is such a great, like a very cool kind of background
story, like what let you where you were, where you are now.
(09:29):
Kudos to your family giving you a lot of influence over, you
know, your career choice today. Thank you.
They definitely have been huge influencers in that.
In fact, I have a huge family ofseven brothers, no sisters.
And if we went through the list of each one, I would say
expression, whether it's an art modality or maybe living life
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that's, you know, goes against mainstream ways, is very much a
part of who we all have sort of become.
Yeah, it's pretty awesome. That's so funny.
You are. You are the only sister in your
in your family, right? My dad is the only son in his
family. Really.
(10:16):
He has five sisters. Oh.
It's a unique ecosystem. It's a problem.
It's also kind of like an opportunity.
I don't know. It's so fascinating.
So I'm curious, when you say youpursued expressive art versus
(10:38):
traditional art therapy, could you help us understand the
differences and maybe the connection there?
So I'd love to, and mind you, I do make clear for people, I am
not a therapist. So even in my addressing that
question, this is as an observer, right, and someone
who's been trained in a group among therapists, but I really,
(10:58):
my response is going to come through that observing lens.
And So what my understanding is if you are trained in art
therapy, there is a framework where you as a, as a
practitioner, right, are in a partnership with your client to
analyze the art that's created. And there's, you know, some
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level of interpretation that arestandard and create dialogue
between the practitioner and theclient.
And then in expressive art, expressive art takes an approach
where it's more about an invitation to be free of
boundary, right? Where there's not a limitation
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on what you create, you know, equals XY and Z.
It's what you create is a narrative that brings to light
an understanding or an exploration of self.
That's that's becoming examined through a joint collaboration
without boundaries, right? So I find that expressive art is
(12:01):
more limitless in nature. It's bringing, there's discovery
that's packed into it. And for many people, you know,
the natural, you know, communicating through word alone
is not enough. And so having these other
modalities, whether it's body movement through dance or rhythm
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or music, spoken word, like if you're doing poetry as an
example, I mean, those are all avenues that further allow us to
go deeper and express ourselves.And when we do it in a non
contained way, I think it really, it just creates such a
vastness of understanding that'snew and different, right?
(12:45):
It's it's truly it's discovery. So what's the difference, right?
Expressive art is more process oriented for that discovery to
take place. Art therapy, I think is more
examination of what did you create, the product that you
created. Let's talk about that.
So there's some more boundary around express art therapy,
traditional art therapy. That is so cool, thank you for
(13:07):
the explanation. It sounds like expressive art is
non judgmental and the traditional art therapy could be
judgmental. I would absolutely say yes to
that. Again, I'm not, you know,
specifically trained in both to be a therapist, but yes.
And I, I think actually part of my training since my origin days
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of this certificate program, I've moved on to become a
National Board certified health and Wellness coach.
And in that training, the pillarof being non judgmental is front
and center. And let's just be real, that's
hard. It's hard to be non judgmental,
but coupling it with something like expressive art, you're the
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openness you're it's a, it's a fundamental principle is to
remain open and get the client to talk.
And in coaching, it's the same idea.
It's not my job to talk for you.It's let me help navigate a
conversation where you, the client can do more talking.
And so it's a beautiful weaving of both industries.
(14:14):
I think the work that I do to foster that safety that people
need to have so they don't feel judged and they can't be free,
right? Yeah, definitely.
Yeah, definitely. I think I mean, like you
mentioned that you are not a therapist.
At the same time you are guidingpeople through that journey.
Like you mentioned, it's a discovery journey.
(14:36):
And perhaps oftentimes what people need is not for someone
to tell them what to do, but just to be there alongside them.
100 percent, 100 right. It's powerful.
Yeah, it is powerful and I I also feel it's it's pretty
rewarding as well. It is rewarding when you see
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people in in my work that I do when I actually have the
privilege to work in person as alot of my work is through Zoom
or Teams and you know, bringing art to life and that manner is
met with some challenges. But I do when I have these
opportunities to do in person events, I can see the the change
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taking place. They're like little micro
moments of aha, right, The self discovery of whoa.
I didn't know I could feel different by doing this activity
or I never thought about myself in this manner.
And because of today's experience, I'm, I'm going to
start thinking differently, you know, about whatever it could be
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this thing I'm ruminating over or piece of my history, right?
The narrative I've told myself, it's actually not that
narrative. I just broke a pattern, right?
So. Could you have like a quick kind
of no name mentioned example of when people reach that
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realization, what it's like likethrough, you know, working on
art and movements etcetera, and what kind of aha moments people
tend to have? Well, I 1 immediately comes to
mind and I appreciate the no name mentioned because even if I
remember the name, it's nice to keep some people anonymous,
right? It's important.
(16:20):
This individual, I was doing a class, it was in person and we
were doing a vision boarding class.
So that's my spin on vision boards.
It's just a little bit deeper and well, there's a lot we could
say about it. But this individual, I knew
nothing about her. And it was at the end of the
experience. She came up and she was with a
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friend visiting the area and they attended this class as
something fun to do. She had lost her son in a car
accident. And she goes on to share this
and she had no idea the level oflike the lack of release.
So she was holding so much within her, probably for the
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sake, I imagine of just sharing space with other people that are
still reliant upon you. You know, these roles that we
all fall prey to is, you know, holding space for so many other
people when our own self needs to be held, right.
So in this moment of these, these two hours we spent
together, I noticed there was something going on with her.
And, you know, she's just a guest at my experience.
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So it's not for me really to go pry and start dialoguing.
But I invited it at the end because I, I did witness some,
you know, emotion coming from her face.
And so she opened up and she just said this was such a
release for me to allow myself to grieve in a new way.
I was holding so much within because of what I have to
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navigate that today was a real release and a new beginning in
that recovery, in her grieving journey.
That to me, I mean, drop the mic, right?
That to me is I've done my job. Wow.
You know, whatever I created in this moment of facilitating, she
felt like she could in the comfort of a friend that she was
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with that she was able to allow herself to get to a place of
ease and realness with herself that she could have this
breakthrough. I mean, that's she didn't even
know she needed it. You know, that's what I'm
talking about. It's like no one, we didn't have
cognitive therapy. We didn't sit there and go back
and forth on this conversation of reliving the trauma.
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You know, what we what I did wasthere were tools created this
ability to use imagery to go where she needed to go in that
evening. And for her it was a very
cathartic experience. So not everybody has those
profound moments, but I would say most people have an aha
moment through the course of an expressive art engagement that I
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facilitate. And you know, the aha moment
could just be that quick micro moment of, Oh my gosh, what I
said to my partner last night was actually really rude.
And you know, it could be something that's simple or it
could be, you know, a, a game changer in how you're carrying
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yourself on a grieving journey, Everything in between.
It's powerful. I've witnessed it numerous
times. Wow, how does that, what does
that do to you? I mean you are like a container
at the same time you can't keep taking and taking.
How do you release? Oh, that's a beautiful question.
(19:36):
Well, I'm human, so that basically means I'm just like
the people I serve where I overdo it, I can burn out.
I mean, practice what we preach,right?
This is my industry. I know it well.
I also live it. I think what I've learned in
recent years is if I could pull from AA, I don't personally have
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that experience, but I definitely have loved people in
my life who are involved in AA. And to be a leader in AA, you
have to have gone through the journey and what I've come to
peace with is I have gone through.
You know, a lot of emotion, I mean, so much emotion in my
life, just through the kind of person I am, the relationship
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I'm in, parenting, you know, it pulls at me and the family that
I come from, right? And so I sort of reconciled
within myself that my mission isreally with a niche of emotional
Wellness and the creative, you know, expressive art.
Why I'm so into it is because I've lived it.
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And so I see the value of takingtime to be engaged in a creative
process. And I'll tell you, for me to do
it on my own is very challenging.
And so I volunteer with a CancerSupport group as a facilitator
so that I always tell the ladiesthat come, it's predominantly
women that show up. I tell them, I say, hey, I'm
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doing this group with you because I need the time to go
through an expressive art experience as well, because I, I
need that, you know, I need to quiet my mind and if I can also
help someone else in the process, great.
So in that role, I, that's what I turn to.
I, I never want that that volunteer pursuit to get
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jeopardized because it's kind ofmy prime real estate for myself.
Yeah, that's, it's so interesting.
I think in order to do the job well, you have to do it yourself
too. I mean that that's the case for
many, many professions, and sometimes we don't realize that.
So I think one thing we touched on earlier, and I think this is
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perhaps a good place to talk about is working with so many
clients and people from different backgrounds and
different democratic demographics.
You probably have. I'm only guessing, you know.
It's a humbling experience as well.
(22:08):
Right. I well, I, I do, I feel like
it's, I'm Privy to the unique individual journeys that people
are on. I, I feel like that's an awe
inducing process for myself. So in the work I do, yes, I feel
very affirmed that what I'm bringing to people is a need.
(22:32):
I'm helping people with something because I, I witness,
you know, these transformations right in front of me, but I but
deeper is there's too many thoughts.
I'm having a collision of thoughts right now.
That's what's going on in my mind.
But you know, to put some language between.
I think what, what we're talkingabout is this idea of cultural
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humility, right? It's this idea for myself
personally, which I didn't come up with the definition, but the
concept is, is a lifelong commitment to self examination,
self critique and looking at at the world around you, people
experiences that are different than your own and really
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building connection through through that curiosity.
But it's connection not not to further illuminate the
differences, right. And so cultural humility, I
think of what happens in in my facilitated events is because
I'm navigating such diversity inone room or on a Zoom or a group
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of people that's totally different than I am.
I have to rely upon the value ofcultural humility because I can,
you know, I can be perceived as what am I going to know with
some people who are very different than I am, right?
Just by looking at me, right. These observed differences.
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And what I find is when I can prepare an environment where we
find our humanness of connection.
Magic happens because there's a curiosity of connection, not a
curiosity of othering, right, that takes place.
And what's beautiful with expressive art is that it's
stealth. It allows people naturally to be
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pulled into this state of self reflection.
So while I might be facilitatingit, I'm also going through a
self reflective zone. And you are.
And it's like this really beautiful thing that we're all
on this playing field together of discovery.
Does that make sense the way I'mdescribing that?
It does. I think it kind of puts you in
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the you are the teacher, you arealso the learner.
Well, yes, there's always that exchange, always.
I, I honestly, the day we stop learning is a day I'm I'm 6 feet
under. You know, unfortunately that
also goes into like a growth mindset, right?
Here's the thing I've learned ismost of my clients are adults,
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right? I go into the corporate sector
and these are all people that are adults trying to make a
living and thrive in their own unique way and working with
adults that have a ton of noise coming at them.
I mean, the world we live in that's full of tech and beings
and notifications, right? I mean, who am I?
How am I going to create a difference in anyone's life?
(25:28):
You know, and we're as adults, we're very set in our ways.
We can fall prey to that. We can fall prey to our belief
systems based on lived experience.
I think I've mentioned before when we were talking before,
there's this really, I, I find how this resonates deeply in the
era of today is the terror management theory, where when
we're confronted with our own mortality, we fall prey to
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holding on to constructs that make us feel a sense of control.
And they typically are, you know, the trifecta of race,
politics and religion and kind of bird's eye view of today that
is going on all around us. It creates the biggest divides
among people. And, you know, where did it come
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from? I think when we all went through
that season of COVID, our mortality flashed in front of
us. No matter the belief system.
This was like headline news, right?
And many individuals, we know, experience the mortality of
loved ones. And so we're in this aftermath
of holding on to these ideas that create a kind of, you know,
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give us some sense of control. And when we're dealing with
cultural humility, it's an invitation to sort of counter
that sense of control and go deeper.
And through that self examination and the invitation
to foster connection with others, we can breakthrough that
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trifecta, right, of those dividing lines.
And so I find with expressive art, it's a stealth methodology
to lead adults who are stuck as a product of just being human.
You know, we come into our ways for reasons.
It pulls us into a space that would be, you know, could be
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very threatening for people. And that's where I think
facilitating with finesse, having a skill set around
holding at that psychological safety, right?
Being able to build that safe environment among a variety of
people that are all very different, that is a, a gift for
some people, right? And I, I do believe this kind of
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the family I come from and the experiences I've, I've had.
I, I do think I have some, it's skill and it's some gift.
You know, it's your natural disposition to be a more
empathic minded person affirmingin nature to facilitate a group
where there's a lot of differences at stake that could
be factors that divide people rather than pull them together
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and then give people a paintbrush.
I mean, there's a lot of factorsgoing on to navigate, but it is
quite beautiful to witness. You know, it's, it's, it's a
unique thing. So when you work with your
client, is he usually painting? I do all kinds of things.
I, I really have a strong favor for visual arts.
(28:25):
So I, I don't come in with movement and like, you know,
dancing. That's not my area of specialty.
Usually I use, I use the visual arts.
So a color source I refer to, you know, if it's paint, if it's
marker, if it's crayons, it's your color source.
If I'm in person, I bring because it's a corporate
environment, typically I stray away from traditional, you know,
(28:50):
acrylic paint on a palette and Iutilize something called Gelato
sticks. So they're paint soluble, water
soluble paint sticks. And those are amazing.
Oh, they're my favorite art medium actually to use.
And they're they're pretty mess free.
You don't have to have pockets of water everywhere.
And, you know, it kind of creates a level of suitability
(29:12):
for the corporate workstation. But I'm very fond of a Sharpie
in paper. There's so much you can do with
a recycle bin. Grab the backside of an
envelope, a brown paper bag fromthe grocery store and a Sharpie
and we can hang out for an hour.And I'll give you an experience.
I mean, I love collage. I love making artist papers and
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tearing paper is always fun if you don't have scissors.
And I mean, there's, there's just volumes of activities that
I can pull from. But the idea is it's always
process over product. Once people know that, they
don't get lost in that critical mind of, oh, it needs to be
perfect. It needs to be symmetrical.
Oh, I don't know what I'm doing right, But I have to.
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I have to educate people along the way and nurture that so they
can be comfortable withholding Apaintbrush for the first time or
be comfortable being OK with notmaking a perfect circle.
When I'm asking them to do a circle, I'll typically have them
do it twice over each other so it keeps the eye moving and we
don't get lost in the lack of perfection.
(30:15):
So there's all those are all thetricks I've learned over the
years working with just a range of right.
That's so interesting because I imagine when you are at a
company setting, a corporate like a lot of those folks I
imagine can be competitive. So you are like, let's make art
together. Some people are like trying
(30:36):
really hard to make something. So true.
In fact, I love to make light ofthat because that is a common
reality. People are competitive with
themselves. They're competitive with other
people that they may not even realize.
And it does surface. In fact, I recently did an event
(30:57):
and we were doing this this, it is a cultural humility course
that I have. And you basically make a color
wheel. And I was just observing how,
you know, the different engagement with color.
Like, I mean, this is a foreign concept for some people, right?
And for others, this is like oldnews.
(31:18):
I mean, hey, I know how to work with color and paint brushes,
and I can make magic happen. So facilitating that alone is a
unique dynamic. But what I witnessed was I made
reference to the world of technology in the workplace.
And I felt like all the eyes shifted to this one individual
that was sitting kind of next tome.
And there was some chuckling. And I thought you know already
(31:41):
the peer group creates dynamics that are very interesting to
see. So as a facilitator, I, I have
to pay attention to that, right?Because I want that individual
who's being looked at to have a profound experience just like
another person, right? So you have to make light of it
and kind of, you know, I call itthe stumble and the fumble,
(32:04):
right? When we just all, we're all
human together. I remind people, meet me at your
humanness because this is part of life.
And I also encourage people to realize you're the subject
matter expert. I'm inviting you into a process
that you have full authority over.
So if you know, I'm saying, hey,we're going to grab the color
(32:24):
red, but you want to do blue, I can't.
Hey, that's totally fine. Because I, I, it's important to
note, I love letting people knowthat yes, I'm going to deliver
something you can follow along with.
But at the end of the day, because this is process over
product, the value is engagementand the engagement is going to
be your own comfort level. And what that value is, is how
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it works with your brain being engaged in a creative process.
We're activating our parasympathetic system.
We're going into a state of relaxation.
And for many people in a corporate environment or work
environment, they're dealing with a level of stress and
stimulus that to have that parasympathetic engagement in
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the middle of the workplace is almost like alarming to their
system, right? So I'm like, you're a winner no
matter what. I mean, just showing up to this
experience, this Wellness engagement makes you, it's a
win. I already know that showing up.
You said yes to yourself. That's number one.
That's going in your favor. And that helps people, you know,
(33:31):
relax a little and then, you know, when they have that choice
in front of them. Adults like to have choices
where they're in control, right?We're doing that way.
And so I give them that choice. Say, you can follow along with
what I'm providing to you. I'll dance through it with you.
Or if you cut loose, you kind ofwant to do your own thing
because when was the last time you had a box of crayons of
paper, you know? Welcome here.
(33:55):
Yeah. That's so interesting because,
like, I imagine when you come in, you're already saying it
doesn't matter if you make good art.
The point is to make art. Still, people will be like, oh,
you know what? I'm going to, yeah.
Well, and what happens naturallyis, you know, there are there
are people who just have a skillset in art that is really
(34:17):
amazing and that shows up right.And there's people who are
outside of the box thinkers thatshows up in their methodology
that they choose to kind of create with.
And then there's people who really just this is like not
their cup of tea. I don't know if I'm going to
come back to another event. It's just not for me.
And then I tell them, no problem.
You know, this is a tool belt. This is this is we have to have
(34:40):
lots of different things we can try so that when we're
confronted with the need to either self examine, right, or
the need to have some stress management, we need to have a
tool belt. And I and I just encourage
people find what works for you today.
You're trying something new. And you know, I just appreciate
that you're here and I it, it's,it's all finesse, right?
(35:03):
Finesse and facilitating and meeting where they're at.
Yeah, definitely. I'm glad you mentioned that.
It's about finessing and I, I'm thinking, you know, you've been
doing this for more than like your lifetime.
Basically, you've been doing this a long time.
How has it been like from the beginning as a business operator
and to now? How have you seen these kind of
(35:26):
Wellness practice evolve over time and how does that affect
your own teaching? What a question.
Wow. Well, for one, I think, I think
the Wellness industry is inundated with ideas.
It's great. I think we're at a really
(35:47):
amazing time for a tool belt that's very full.
I think there's so many things out there for people.
The the, I think what I find is because there's so many and we
live in a time where everything is.
So there's just so much. It's like when do you stop
swiping? When do you stop looking at all
(36:08):
the ideas and you start doing? And so for me personally, what I
love about expressive art is it's an action oriented process.
It's not another PowerPoint, it's not more knowledge, it's an
experience. And that's, that's the division
that happens with Wellness. I mean, you know, the start of
(36:29):
the year, there's just this big push, it's New Year's
resolutions and everybody goes join one of these classes and
within a month they're not goinganymore.
But that experience of showing up is really where the value
takes place. So we have to have a tool belt
of a lot of different things to try out and keep it alive and
fresh. So that's one part I think of
(36:49):
the answer to what you're saying.
What I've seen over the years evolve.
The other thing I've seen specific to coaching is, you
know, coaching is I think there's a misrepresentation of
what true coaching is. There's hey, I have a program,
I'm a coach, come by my program,I'm going to take you from A-Z
and this is what it will look like at the end.
(37:11):
Call it what you want. That's really not the coaching
I've had right with this whole certification that I, I have.
I think it's prestigious becauseit can't.
It's an integrative certification where with this
particular classification you can work on an integrative care
team. I can work with a behavioral
(37:33):
practitioner. I can work with your medical
doctor if you have cancer, I canwork with your oncologist.
As a board certified health and Wellness coach, you become a
voice for your client as a part of an advocating, you know, I'm
an advocate for them. I collaborate with them along
with all the other people on their team.
(37:53):
And I can't put a person througha program if that's what we're
doing, right? This is I'm here to collaborate
with you so you can live your best version of Wellness
throughout whatever you're navigating, right?
So coaching in the industry, I think, I think there's a lot out
there that's just noise making, even though I don't want to
(38:15):
discredit what is out there because again, it's a variety of
tool belt, you know, a filler for your tool belt.
I, I think people need to, you know, they need to look at the
source of like, what am I engaged in for my Wellness?
Is it coming from, is it, is it a, a human design meeting me at
my humaneness to help me on my Wellness journey?
(38:38):
Or am I falling prey to someone else's idea for me?
Because truly, where does behavior change come from?
It comes from within. When we look at how people,
maybe I'm getting off topic here, but in this concept of the
Wellness industry, it's always about behavior change.
(38:59):
You know, we want people to livea life of Wellness.
And so how does behavior change come?
You know, there's theories around, you know, self
determination theory. There's there's a lot out there
that people can unpack. But ultimately, if you're being
told to do something, it's you're going to fall short.
It will at some point, you know,you'll cross that path of this
(39:19):
isn't for me. Where is that internal
motivation or the internal desire to learn?
That's where I think this coaching aspect can really
compliment someone on that journey is to help collaborate
with them, to help them see their own desire for change.
What's realistic, What can they employ during the season of
(39:39):
their life. And I love to tell people, you
know, you're in a season just like Mother Nature.
There's the beginning and end tosummer and winter is amazing
because things need to go in an incubation period and have rest,
you know, for the renewal that spring brings.
So if we can find that in our own self.
(40:00):
But that's powerful, right? If I realize I'm in a season,
well, when I have a disruptor that comes along, I can work
with it, right, Instead of be totally derailed by it and I've
lost my footing. No, I'm just, I'm coming to a
new pathway in my season. We're always, you know, we're
dynamic people. Yes, I agree.
(40:21):
And I think that's such a good illustration of your own
practice of the abundance mindset, like seasonality and
going with the flow and being dynamic.
It's all part of the abundance mindset.
It's not. It's not like still, it's not
like static. It always changes, right?
(40:44):
You know, I think people, no onewants to self reflect.
Naturally. You get up and you start your
day and then the noise of the world takes over and you lie and
go to bed. And you know, sure, there's a
lot of people. I would say there's plenty of
people out there that have a really thriving meditative
practice and they do self examination and I want them to
continue, right? But there's many people who
(41:07):
don't do that. And what would get you to start
doing that? I think one thing is that
inventory of wait, let me look at, let me look at my life
stage. Where do I come from?
At one point, I was an adolescence.
At one point I was a young adult.
Today I'm, you know, I'm in my late 40s.
I'm in a complete different season than when I was in my
(41:30):
20s. And so that season alone, my
workout routine is going to lookdifferent.
What I eat is going to look different.
My sleep patterns are going to be different.
Right. Yeah.
We fall prey to these locked in.I'm supposed to be this way and
then forever. My life never changes except I
get more wrinkles. I mean, there's so many things
that are changing and life circumstances along the way that
(41:51):
maybe are beyond our control that create pivots, you know?
Yeah. Again, that's that's very, very
non judgmental. That's a very non judgmental way
of coaching and guiding people in exploring their own journeys,
right? That's just.
Famous. Yes.
Yeah. And I feel like your job
(42:13):
basically, if I were to maybe simplify it, is you are taking
care of people through art. Oh my gosh, I'd love that.
Just like made my heart sing. I think, yeah, it's beautiful.
Yes, Yeah, yes. Engagement through this
expressive art, I'm caring for people that is so beautiful and
(42:38):
they're really, you know, what they really are doing is they're
caring for themselves just like a vessel, right?
I'm a, I'm a, I'm a catalyst forthat to take.
You're a messenger. Yeah, a messenger.
I can work with that. That's great.
Yeah, that's beautiful. So I imagine, I mean myself
included, I would love to just experience your coaching at some
(42:59):
point. And for folks out there, they
are curious about expressive art.
How do people find you and work with you?
Connect with you either in person in California or
virtually? I love this.
Yes, well, first of all, a good place to find me would just be
my website, which is Sarah's art.com, CERAS art.com.
(43:23):
There's a lot of ways you can reach out to me through that.
I am a fan of what I call slow media, which simply means yes,
I'm online. I have a LinkedIn, I have
Instagram. It's not my go to, but I am on
it on it enough that I could seesome traction.
If someone wanted to message me,I would certainly respond.
(43:45):
I'm a little old fashioned. I love, you know, a Zoom so I
can see your face wherever you live.
The beautiful thing of coaching is we're not bound by licensures
that limit you to the state you're operating from.
So with this, you know, board certification, I can have
clients that live anywhere. It it just doesn't matter.
It's wonderful. So that that I would say just
(44:07):
the online route to get to me. You can also e-mail me with my
name, Sarah. Sarah at sarahsart.com, my
website name. That's really probably the best
way to find me without blasting my phone number on the podcast.
I think I'll take an April. That's fine.
Yeah, right. I love the term slow media.
(44:27):
We really, we don't need more. We don't need anything that's
faster or more mediate. And yeah, no.
Unfortunately, I'm gonna tell you, I just read something about
in HR, different HR communities I kind of try to stay afloat on
is the new term is toggle tax. And when you just digest that
(44:49):
for a minute, you've got people working, you know, and they have
e-mail, they have text messaging, they might have a
Slack feed they're part of, theymay have team notifications.
I mean, you fill in the blanks of all the different messaging
that creates this toggle effect for an individual.
And there's a fatigue that kicksin.
(45:10):
And what I don't want to do is add to it.
So yeah, slow media, 100%. And there's something magic that
happens when, you know, I'm a big fan of face to face, right?
If we can't do it physically in a shared space, we do it through
a virtual lens of a camera like Zoom.
And that that prompts A physiological connection.
(45:34):
We have the mirror neurons. You know, there's a regulatory
aspect that becomes it's actually we have a name for the
social engagement system. And that becomes activated and
people benefit when they get away from the text thread, when
they get away from the the mediathat is driving our economy and
our relationships. And we come to this old
(45:58):
fashioned face to face. It's amazing what can transpire.
And you know, I'm raising two teenagers now and I'll tell you,
I'm in the throes of put your eyes up, make eye contact.
You don't put the phone down, right?
And really they're, they're growing up in a time where
that's all they know is the social media and you know, that
(46:18):
method of communication. And I really look forward to
future research. It's going to come out that will
show either how we are evolving as a species who adapt to this
methodology that's taking over, or maybe show the disparities,
right, that are taking place with maybe disparities isn't the
right word, but it's really justa showcase how we are evolving
(46:41):
as people. What is happening to our brain
during these developmental phases that are so profound,
right for an adolescent, as an example, by always having this
toggle tax kick in? I don't know.
I mean, it's just fascinating, this whole other.
Camera Yeah, I really I yeah, I think that term toggle tax, yes,
(47:04):
that just feels like too much it's like.
I know it. It does.
I think it also summarizes probably what is going on for
people. I mean, the word tax already can
create some nervous system response, right?
Little arousal with that text time.
Nobody likes text toggle tax. It's exactly what's happening.
(47:25):
It's pings, you know, we're likeping pong ball.
We're going back and forth to all the different notifications
this coming through, that comingthrough and we're losing seen
the humanness of connection in the midst of it.
I mean, which is all the more reason why I'd love to work with
people and give them art and letthem play and get back in touch
with that human aspect of. There's something really healing
(47:47):
about being slow, like the slowness is really wonderful.
Slow and if I can add a term from positive psychology is
flow. Slow, yeah.
Yeah. So when you're engaged in
creativity, you can achieve flowstates, which is powerful.
It's it's like an endorphin rushfor some people.
(48:09):
Yeah, yeah. Well, I'll have to invite you
back and do another one about, you know, how.
How do we like, how do we teach ourselves or help ourselves to
be more, to be a little happier,to be a little bit more hopeful?
So that's for another conversation.
And thank you so much, Sarah, for your time today.
(48:32):
I learned a lot. I I mean now I want to I want to
try expressive art. That is so wonderful to hear.
I do think I just might tell people I said it's the
experience driven solution for mental health initiatives.
It is experience based and if you can get a box of crayons or
a Sharpie and the backside of anenvelope, there's a lot we can
(48:54):
do together. Yes, yes, and they're all
accessible. We don't need high tech.
Right, you have to spend a dime.Look at your junk drawer that
you have right now. We all have a junk drawer yes,
we just, you know, need some guidance and that's where I come
in to bring it to life. Thank you so much for today.
It's it's always just it's a dance, right?
(49:14):
It's always fun fun to it's. So enjoyable and thank you so
much Sarah.
Intersection, a podcast program about intersectionality,
intersectional identities, and intersectional journeys both
professionally and personally. And as we all know, they are all
interconnected. As a quick reminder, we are in
the middle of June and we know June is a very, very
(00:35):
intersectional and busy month. We know June is Pride Month.
We know June is Immigrant Heritage Month as well as PTSD
Awareness month. We also know June is a men's
mental health awareness month. And today's conversation is
actually really relevant to our mental well-being and mental
(00:59):
health. And also the last weekend we
just had Father's Day. And of course tomorrow is
Juneteenth and then the day after is going to be summer
solstice. So June has just a lot going on
and busy, busy, busy. So hope folks are taking care of
each other and celebrating each other.
(01:20):
And I want to welcome our guest today, Sarah Patterson.
Sarah is a a new friend I think Sarah leaves saying California
and we connected via a mutual friend Danielle who's also a
practitioner and Sarah is the practitioner and founder at
(01:44):
Sarah Art it spells Cera. S.
ART. And she's been practicing
expressive art for almost 15 years.
So I want to invite Sarah to introduce herself.
Welcome, Sarah. Amazing.
Thank you so much for having me.And I'm just want to piggyback
real quick with that amazing introduction to the month of
(02:06):
June. When you put it all together
like that, it's really relevant,amazing to have a conversation
like today with all of those very hot topics in the forefront
of the landscape that we are navigating.
Really terrific. So thanks for having me.
It's a pleasure to be here. Thank you, Sarah.
(02:26):
Yeah, When we talked, I feel there was a lot of like
alignment in our conversation. There was just a lot of like
shared kind of value and interest in our personal
practices and of course professional practices.
And. I just wish we had met sooner,
but I'm sure you know we met nowfor a reason.
(02:50):
Right, right. Gotta believe.
That could you share a little bit?
I mean, you've been practicing for almost 15 years and probably
before that you had already beenpracticing, just not as a
business operator, right? So I would love for you to share
maybe a little bit on your journey getting into healing
Wellness and using art as a tool.
(03:12):
I would love to share that I'm Iwill say it'll, it'll go back in
time a little bit. Really from where I come from,
my family of origin, my mother is an artist.
She was a Potter like always worked with clay as her medium
and comes from a family of artists.
My grandfather was a scenic painter for I think it was
(03:32):
Paramount Studios. I mean just hands in the arts.
And when I found with my mother,the influence was my first job
in high school, I worked for herbusiness at home making
handcrafted goods out of clay. And she was a religious artist,
so there was always meaning making woven into her art form.
And as I grew up, right, and sort of came into my own, I
(03:57):
found I was facing a time of my life where I just needed some
further development. So I was seeking, you know,
looking into other things I could do.
This is back in 2005. And I found a program, it was a
certificate program predominantly for therapists,
and it was called expressive artTherapy certification.
(04:19):
And I didn't have to be a therapist, which was great
because my background at that time, I was just, I think I was
about 7, maybe actually six years out of college with a
bachelor in health education. So I was, you know, Wellness
health was sort of a foundational pathway for me and
seeking more, something different for myself, just for
(04:44):
personal interest. I landed into this program and
it was a commitment of a year. We had one massive weekend
retreat every month for 12 months.
And it was a small group. There were twelve women.
And by the end of it we would have journeyed through all these
different modalities of expressive art.
And the whole concept was in a therapeutic relationship where
(05:08):
we have a client and practitioner, how are we meeting
the needs of the client with getting the individual to go
deeper with themselves, to have self reflection and to go
through transformation, right. And so the modalities of
expressive art become a gateway that allow people to go into
(05:29):
that state of self reflection. And so for me, I was able to be
eligible for this program because there was a category for
educators. And what I've learned since, I
mean, there's, you know, national organizations for this
kind of stuff, but back in 2005,it was not mainstream knowledge,
(05:50):
you know, expressive art versus traditional art therapy.
And it just landed beautifully with I was at my life.
It gave me new language for my own self.
And at that time I was in the early parts of a relationship
with my now husband of 18 years.We were not married yet.
And my husband is a different race than I am.
(06:13):
He is an African American and wethrough our journey together
have learned about massive differences, right?
This is what happens when you get 2 people who are different
that come together. And what I find over and over is
this background I now have with the arts has just been a massive
(06:36):
tool in deeper understanding of my own self, deeper
understanding of my spouse. And of course that feeds into
the world around me. So origin story, the utilizing
art comes really through the influence of my family and then
it wove beautifully into my own pursuit of self development and
(06:56):
then landed into being a sort ofa side hustle where I just
thought, you know, there's something I can do here for
other people in our community. And so I started a built
business, Sarah's art. And it's a funny name, right?
And it's kind of got some parts that are just playful behind the
name of it. Obviously, it sounds like my
(07:18):
name, but it's spelled differently and it really
morphed into an acronym that I think is so relevant in the work
I'm doing. But it's cultures, environments,
respected and shared art, right?So Sarah's art, most people
don't know that because it's very long.
So I just go with Sarah's art as, you know, just the way of
(07:38):
referencing it. But it has certainly a deeper
meeting behind the work that I do.
It really is about bringing people together through the art
process for feeling safe, for celebrating our differences and
our similarities and being curious through a connection,
(08:00):
right? That that's really, I think what
grounds me in my work. And obviously since my origin
with this influence of art, I'vepursued more education.
I now have a master's in mental health and Wellness and achieve
that during the season of COVID.And I kept thinking, this is so
amazing that my personal interests are now being
(08:24):
illuminated on the landscape of the world.
We're navigating that here we are today where mental health
and well-being is at the forefront of organizations of
individual pursuits. I mean, it's, you can't go
anywhere without hearing about it.
It's a both a problem and a solution.
And so I find my work inexpressive.
(08:45):
Art, specifically in the corporate sector is innovative.
It's it's still, you know, I still meet and met with some
resistance because it's art. You know, people are threatened
by art. But beautiful thing is once they
realize it's a tool and it's expressive, it's more about
(09:06):
process over product. You we open doors and it's just
a beautiful thing to witness where people go and take it and
what can, what can be changed because of it.
That is such a great, like a very cool kind of background
story, like what let you where you were, where you are now.
(09:29):
Kudos to your family giving you a lot of influence over, you
know, your career choice today. Thank you.
They definitely have been huge influencers in that.
In fact, I have a huge family ofseven brothers, no sisters.
And if we went through the list of each one, I would say
expression, whether it's an art modality or maybe living life
(09:54):
that's, you know, goes against mainstream ways, is very much a
part of who we all have sort of become.
Yeah, it's pretty awesome. That's so funny.
You are. You are the only sister in your
in your family, right? My dad is the only son in his
family. Really.
(10:16):
He has five sisters. Oh.
It's a unique ecosystem. It's a problem.
It's also kind of like an opportunity.
I don't know. It's so fascinating.
So I'm curious, when you say youpursued expressive art versus
(10:38):
traditional art therapy, could you help us understand the
differences and maybe the connection there?
So I'd love to, and mind you, I do make clear for people, I am
not a therapist. So even in my addressing that
question, this is as an observer, right, and someone
who's been trained in a group among therapists, but I really,
(10:58):
my response is going to come through that observing lens.
And So what my understanding is if you are trained in art
therapy, there is a framework where you as a, as a
practitioner, right, are in a partnership with your client to
analyze the art that's created. And there's, you know, some
(11:19):
level of interpretation that arestandard and create dialogue
between the practitioner and theclient.
And then in expressive art, expressive art takes an approach
where it's more about an invitation to be free of
boundary, right? Where there's not a limitation
(11:40):
on what you create, you know, equals XY and Z.
It's what you create is a narrative that brings to light
an understanding or an exploration of self.
That's that's becoming examined through a joint collaboration
without boundaries, right? So I find that expressive art is
(12:01):
more limitless in nature. It's bringing, there's discovery
that's packed into it. And for many people, you know,
the natural, you know, communicating through word alone
is not enough. And so having these other
modalities, whether it's body movement through dance or rhythm
(12:22):
or music, spoken word, like if you're doing poetry as an
example, I mean, those are all avenues that further allow us to
go deeper and express ourselves.And when we do it in a non
contained way, I think it really, it just creates such a
vastness of understanding that'snew and different, right?
(12:45):
It's it's truly it's discovery. So what's the difference, right?
Expressive art is more process oriented for that discovery to
take place. Art therapy, I think is more
examination of what did you create, the product that you
created. Let's talk about that.
So there's some more boundary around express art therapy,
traditional art therapy. That is so cool, thank you for
(13:07):
the explanation. It sounds like expressive art is
non judgmental and the traditional art therapy could be
judgmental. I would absolutely say yes to
that. Again, I'm not, you know,
specifically trained in both to be a therapist, but yes.
And I, I think actually part of my training since my origin days
(13:29):
of this certificate program, I've moved on to become a
National Board certified health and Wellness coach.
And in that training, the pillarof being non judgmental is front
and center. And let's just be real, that's
hard. It's hard to be non judgmental,
but coupling it with something like expressive art, you're the
(13:53):
openness you're it's a, it's a fundamental principle is to
remain open and get the client to talk.
And in coaching, it's the same idea.
It's not my job to talk for you.It's let me help navigate a
conversation where you, the client can do more talking.
And so it's a beautiful weaving of both industries.
(14:14):
I think the work that I do to foster that safety that people
need to have so they don't feel judged and they can't be free,
right? Yeah, definitely.
Yeah, definitely. I think I mean, like you
mentioned that you are not a therapist.
At the same time you are guidingpeople through that journey.
Like you mentioned, it's a discovery journey.
(14:36):
And perhaps oftentimes what people need is not for someone
to tell them what to do, but just to be there alongside them.
100 percent, 100 right. It's powerful.
Yeah, it is powerful and I I also feel it's it's pretty
rewarding as well. It is rewarding when you see
(14:57):
people in in my work that I do when I actually have the
privilege to work in person as alot of my work is through Zoom
or Teams and you know, bringing art to life and that manner is
met with some challenges. But I do when I have these
opportunities to do in person events, I can see the the change
(15:18):
taking place. They're like little micro
moments of aha, right, The self discovery of whoa.
I didn't know I could feel different by doing this activity
or I never thought about myself in this manner.
And because of today's experience, I'm, I'm going to
start thinking differently, you know, about whatever it could be
(15:39):
this thing I'm ruminating over or piece of my history, right?
The narrative I've told myself, it's actually not that
narrative. I just broke a pattern, right?
So. Could you have like a quick kind
of no name mentioned example of when people reach that
(16:00):
realization, what it's like likethrough, you know, working on
art and movements etcetera, and what kind of aha moments people
tend to have? Well, I 1 immediately comes to
mind and I appreciate the no name mentioned because even if I
remember the name, it's nice to keep some people anonymous,
right? It's important.
(16:20):
This individual, I was doing a class, it was in person and we
were doing a vision boarding class.
So that's my spin on vision boards.
It's just a little bit deeper and well, there's a lot we could
say about it. But this individual, I knew
nothing about her. And it was at the end of the
experience. She came up and she was with a
(16:41):
friend visiting the area and they attended this class as
something fun to do. She had lost her son in a car
accident. And she goes on to share this
and she had no idea the level oflike the lack of release.
So she was holding so much within her, probably for the
(17:03):
sake, I imagine of just sharing space with other people that are
still reliant upon you. You know, these roles that we
all fall prey to is, you know, holding space for so many other
people when our own self needs to be held, right.
So in this moment of these, these two hours we spent
together, I noticed there was something going on with her.
And, you know, she's just a guest at my experience.
(17:25):
So it's not for me really to go pry and start dialoguing.
But I invited it at the end because I, I did witness some,
you know, emotion coming from her face.
And so she opened up and she just said this was such a
release for me to allow myself to grieve in a new way.
I was holding so much within because of what I have to
(17:48):
navigate that today was a real release and a new beginning in
that recovery, in her grieving journey.
That to me, I mean, drop the mic, right?
That to me is I've done my job. Wow.
You know, whatever I created in this moment of facilitating, she
felt like she could in the comfort of a friend that she was
(18:10):
with that she was able to allow herself to get to a place of
ease and realness with herself that she could have this
breakthrough. I mean, that's she didn't even
know she needed it. You know, that's what I'm
talking about. It's like no one, we didn't have
cognitive therapy. We didn't sit there and go back
and forth on this conversation of reliving the trauma.
(18:31):
You know, what we what I did wasthere were tools created this
ability to use imagery to go where she needed to go in that
evening. And for her it was a very
cathartic experience. So not everybody has those
profound moments, but I would say most people have an aha
moment through the course of an expressive art engagement that I
(18:54):
facilitate. And you know, the aha moment
could just be that quick micro moment of, Oh my gosh, what I
said to my partner last night was actually really rude.
And you know, it could be something that's simple or it
could be, you know, a, a game changer in how you're carrying
(19:16):
yourself on a grieving journey, Everything in between.
It's powerful. I've witnessed it numerous
times. Wow, how does that, what does
that do to you? I mean you are like a container
at the same time you can't keep taking and taking.
How do you release? Oh, that's a beautiful question.
(19:36):
Well, I'm human, so that basically means I'm just like
the people I serve where I overdo it, I can burn out.
I mean, practice what we preach,right?
This is my industry. I know it well.
I also live it. I think what I've learned in
recent years is if I could pull from AA, I don't personally have
(19:58):
that experience, but I definitely have loved people in
my life who are involved in AA. And to be a leader in AA, you
have to have gone through the journey and what I've come to
peace with is I have gone through.
You know, a lot of emotion, I mean, so much emotion in my
life, just through the kind of person I am, the relationship
(20:20):
I'm in, parenting, you know, it pulls at me and the family that
I come from, right? And so I sort of reconciled
within myself that my mission isreally with a niche of emotional
Wellness and the creative, you know, expressive art.
Why I'm so into it is because I've lived it.
(20:42):
And so I see the value of takingtime to be engaged in a creative
process. And I'll tell you, for me to do
it on my own is very challenging.
And so I volunteer with a CancerSupport group as a facilitator
so that I always tell the ladiesthat come, it's predominantly
women that show up. I tell them, I say, hey, I'm
(21:03):
doing this group with you because I need the time to go
through an expressive art experience as well, because I, I
need that, you know, I need to quiet my mind and if I can also
help someone else in the process, great.
So in that role, I, that's what I turn to.
I, I never want that that volunteer pursuit to get
(21:24):
jeopardized because it's kind ofmy prime real estate for myself.
Yeah, that's, it's so interesting.
I think in order to do the job well, you have to do it yourself
too. I mean that that's the case for
many, many professions, and sometimes we don't realize that.
So I think one thing we touched on earlier, and I think this is
(21:46):
perhaps a good place to talk about is working with so many
clients and people from different backgrounds and
different democratic demographics.
You probably have. I'm only guessing, you know.
It's a humbling experience as well.
(22:08):
Right. I well, I, I do, I feel like
it's, I'm Privy to the unique individual journeys that people
are on. I, I feel like that's an awe
inducing process for myself. So in the work I do, yes, I feel
very affirmed that what I'm bringing to people is a need.
(22:32):
I'm helping people with something because I, I witness,
you know, these transformations right in front of me, but I but
deeper is there's too many thoughts.
I'm having a collision of thoughts right now.
That's what's going on in my mind.
But you know, to put some language between.
I think what, what we're talkingabout is this idea of cultural
(22:54):
humility, right? It's this idea for myself
personally, which I didn't come up with the definition, but the
concept is, is a lifelong commitment to self examination,
self critique and looking at at the world around you, people
experiences that are different than your own and really
(23:16):
building connection through through that curiosity.
But it's connection not not to further illuminate the
differences, right. And so cultural humility, I
think of what happens in in my facilitated events is because
I'm navigating such diversity inone room or on a Zoom or a group
(23:39):
of people that's totally different than I am.
I have to rely upon the value ofcultural humility because I can,
you know, I can be perceived as what am I going to know with
some people who are very different than I am, right?
Just by looking at me, right. These observed differences.
(23:59):
And what I find is when I can prepare an environment where we
find our humanness of connection.
Magic happens because there's a curiosity of connection, not a
curiosity of othering, right, that takes place.
And what's beautiful with expressive art is that it's
stealth. It allows people naturally to be
(24:22):
pulled into this state of self reflection.
So while I might be facilitatingit, I'm also going through a
self reflective zone. And you are.
And it's like this really beautiful thing that we're all
on this playing field together of discovery.
Does that make sense the way I'mdescribing that?
It does. I think it kind of puts you in
(24:43):
the you are the teacher, you arealso the learner.
Well, yes, there's always that exchange, always.
I, I honestly, the day we stop learning is a day I'm I'm 6 feet
under. You know, unfortunately that
also goes into like a growth mindset, right?
Here's the thing I've learned ismost of my clients are adults,
(25:06):
right? I go into the corporate sector
and these are all people that are adults trying to make a
living and thrive in their own unique way and working with
adults that have a ton of noise coming at them.
I mean, the world we live in that's full of tech and beings
and notifications, right? I mean, who am I?
How am I going to create a difference in anyone's life?
(25:28):
You know, and we're as adults, we're very set in our ways.
We can fall prey to that. We can fall prey to our belief
systems based on lived experience.
I think I've mentioned before when we were talking before,
there's this really, I, I find how this resonates deeply in the
era of today is the terror management theory, where when
we're confronted with our own mortality, we fall prey to
(25:50):
holding on to constructs that make us feel a sense of control.
And they typically are, you know, the trifecta of race,
politics and religion and kind of bird's eye view of today that
is going on all around us. It creates the biggest divides
among people. And, you know, where did it come
(26:10):
from? I think when we all went through
that season of COVID, our mortality flashed in front of
us. No matter the belief system.
This was like headline news, right?
And many individuals, we know, experience the mortality of
loved ones. And so we're in this aftermath
of holding on to these ideas that create a kind of, you know,
(26:33):
give us some sense of control. And when we're dealing with
cultural humility, it's an invitation to sort of counter
that sense of control and go deeper.
And through that self examination and the invitation
to foster connection with others, we can breakthrough that
(26:57):
trifecta, right, of those dividing lines.
And so I find with expressive art, it's a stealth methodology
to lead adults who are stuck as a product of just being human.
You know, we come into our ways for reasons.
It pulls us into a space that would be, you know, could be
(27:19):
very threatening for people. And that's where I think
facilitating with finesse, having a skill set around
holding at that psychological safety, right?
Being able to build that safe environment among a variety of
people that are all very different, that is a, a gift for
some people, right? And I, I do believe this kind of
(27:41):
the family I come from and the experiences I've, I've had.
I, I do think I have some, it's skill and it's some gift.
You know, it's your natural disposition to be a more
empathic minded person affirmingin nature to facilitate a group
where there's a lot of differences at stake that could
be factors that divide people rather than pull them together
(28:03):
and then give people a paintbrush.
I mean, there's a lot of factorsgoing on to navigate, but it is
quite beautiful to witness. You know, it's, it's, it's a
unique thing. So when you work with your
client, is he usually painting? I do all kinds of things.
I, I really have a strong favor for visual arts.
(28:25):
So I, I don't come in with movement and like, you know,
dancing. That's not my area of specialty.
Usually I use, I use the visual arts.
So a color source I refer to, you know, if it's paint, if it's
marker, if it's crayons, it's your color source.
If I'm in person, I bring because it's a corporate
environment, typically I stray away from traditional, you know,
(28:50):
acrylic paint on a palette and Iutilize something called Gelato
sticks. So they're paint soluble, water
soluble paint sticks. And those are amazing.
Oh, they're my favorite art medium actually to use.
And they're they're pretty mess free.
You don't have to have pockets of water everywhere.
And, you know, it kind of creates a level of suitability
(29:12):
for the corporate workstation. But I'm very fond of a Sharpie
in paper. There's so much you can do with
a recycle bin. Grab the backside of an
envelope, a brown paper bag fromthe grocery store and a Sharpie
and we can hang out for an hour.And I'll give you an experience.
I mean, I love collage. I love making artist papers and
(29:33):
tearing paper is always fun if you don't have scissors.
And I mean, there's, there's just volumes of activities that
I can pull from. But the idea is it's always
process over product. Once people know that, they
don't get lost in that critical mind of, oh, it needs to be
perfect. It needs to be symmetrical.
Oh, I don't know what I'm doing right, But I have to.
(29:54):
I have to educate people along the way and nurture that so they
can be comfortable withholding Apaintbrush for the first time or
be comfortable being OK with notmaking a perfect circle.
When I'm asking them to do a circle, I'll typically have them
do it twice over each other so it keeps the eye moving and we
don't get lost in the lack of perfection.
(30:15):
So there's all those are all thetricks I've learned over the
years working with just a range of right.
That's so interesting because I imagine when you are at a
company setting, a corporate like a lot of those folks I
imagine can be competitive. So you are like, let's make art
together. Some people are like trying
(30:36):
really hard to make something. So true.
In fact, I love to make light ofthat because that is a common
reality. People are competitive with
themselves. They're competitive with other
people that they may not even realize.
And it does surface. In fact, I recently did an event
(30:57):
and we were doing this this, it is a cultural humility course
that I have. And you basically make a color
wheel. And I was just observing how,
you know, the different engagement with color.
Like, I mean, this is a foreign concept for some people, right?
And for others, this is like oldnews.
(31:18):
I mean, hey, I know how to work with color and paint brushes,
and I can make magic happen. So facilitating that alone is a
unique dynamic. But what I witnessed was I made
reference to the world of technology in the workplace.
And I felt like all the eyes shifted to this one individual
that was sitting kind of next tome.
And there was some chuckling. And I thought you know already
(31:41):
the peer group creates dynamics that are very interesting to
see. So as a facilitator, I, I have
to pay attention to that, right?Because I want that individual
who's being looked at to have a profound experience just like
another person, right? So you have to make light of it
and kind of, you know, I call itthe stumble and the fumble,
(32:04):
right? When we just all, we're all
human together. I remind people, meet me at your
humanness because this is part of life.
And I also encourage people to realize you're the subject
matter expert. I'm inviting you into a process
that you have full authority over.
So if you know, I'm saying, hey,we're going to grab the color
(32:24):
red, but you want to do blue, I can't.
Hey, that's totally fine. Because I, I, it's important to
note, I love letting people knowthat yes, I'm going to deliver
something you can follow along with.
But at the end of the day, because this is process over
product, the value is engagementand the engagement is going to
be your own comfort level. And what that value is, is how
(32:48):
it works with your brain being engaged in a creative process.
We're activating our parasympathetic system.
We're going into a state of relaxation.
And for many people in a corporate environment or work
environment, they're dealing with a level of stress and
stimulus that to have that parasympathetic engagement in
(33:10):
the middle of the workplace is almost like alarming to their
system, right? So I'm like, you're a winner no
matter what. I mean, just showing up to this
experience, this Wellness engagement makes you, it's a
win. I already know that showing up.
You said yes to yourself. That's number one.
That's going in your favor. And that helps people, you know,
(33:31):
relax a little and then, you know, when they have that choice
in front of them. Adults like to have choices
where they're in control, right?We're doing that way.
And so I give them that choice. Say, you can follow along with
what I'm providing to you. I'll dance through it with you.
Or if you cut loose, you kind ofwant to do your own thing
because when was the last time you had a box of crayons of
paper, you know? Welcome here.
(33:55):
Yeah. That's so interesting because,
like, I imagine when you come in, you're already saying it
doesn't matter if you make good art.
The point is to make art. Still, people will be like, oh,
you know what? I'm going to, yeah.
Well, and what happens naturallyis, you know, there are there
are people who just have a skillset in art that is really
(34:17):
amazing and that shows up right.And there's people who are
outside of the box thinkers thatshows up in their methodology
that they choose to kind of create with.
And then there's people who really just this is like not
their cup of tea. I don't know if I'm going to
come back to another event. It's just not for me.
And then I tell them, no problem.
You know, this is a tool belt. This is this is we have to have
(34:40):
lots of different things we can try so that when we're
confronted with the need to either self examine, right, or
the need to have some stress management, we need to have a
tool belt. And I and I just encourage
people find what works for you today.
You're trying something new. And you know, I just appreciate
that you're here and I it, it's,it's all finesse, right?
(35:03):
Finesse and facilitating and meeting where they're at.
Yeah, definitely. I'm glad you mentioned that.
It's about finessing and I, I'm thinking, you know, you've been
doing this for more than like your lifetime.
Basically, you've been doing this a long time.
How has it been like from the beginning as a business operator
and to now? How have you seen these kind of
(35:26):
Wellness practice evolve over time and how does that affect
your own teaching? What a question.
Wow. Well, for one, I think, I think
the Wellness industry is inundated with ideas.
It's great. I think we're at a really
(35:47):
amazing time for a tool belt that's very full.
I think there's so many things out there for people.
The the, I think what I find is because there's so many and we
live in a time where everything is.
So there's just so much. It's like when do you stop
swiping? When do you stop looking at all
(36:08):
the ideas and you start doing? And so for me personally, what I
love about expressive art is it's an action oriented process.
It's not another PowerPoint, it's not more knowledge, it's an
experience. And that's, that's the division
that happens with Wellness. I mean, you know, the start of
(36:29):
the year, there's just this big push, it's New Year's
resolutions and everybody goes join one of these classes and
within a month they're not goinganymore.
But that experience of showing up is really where the value
takes place. So we have to have a tool belt
of a lot of different things to try out and keep it alive and
fresh. So that's one part I think of
(36:49):
the answer to what you're saying.
What I've seen over the years evolve.
The other thing I've seen specific to coaching is, you
know, coaching is I think there's a misrepresentation of
what true coaching is. There's hey, I have a program,
I'm a coach, come by my program,I'm going to take you from A-Z
and this is what it will look like at the end.
(37:11):
Call it what you want. That's really not the coaching
I've had right with this whole certification that I, I have.
I think it's prestigious becauseit can't.
It's an integrative certification where with this
particular classification you can work on an integrative care
team. I can work with a behavioral
(37:33):
practitioner. I can work with your medical
doctor if you have cancer, I canwork with your oncologist.
As a board certified health and Wellness coach, you become a
voice for your client as a part of an advocating, you know, I'm
an advocate for them. I collaborate with them along
with all the other people on their team.
(37:53):
And I can't put a person througha program if that's what we're
doing, right? This is I'm here to collaborate
with you so you can live your best version of Wellness
throughout whatever you're navigating, right?
So coaching in the industry, I think, I think there's a lot out
there that's just noise making, even though I don't want to
(38:15):
discredit what is out there because again, it's a variety of
tool belt, you know, a filler for your tool belt.
I, I think people need to, you know, they need to look at the
source of like, what am I engaged in for my Wellness?
Is it coming from, is it, is it a, a human design meeting me at
my humaneness to help me on my Wellness journey?
(38:38):
Or am I falling prey to someone else's idea for me?
Because truly, where does behavior change come from?
It comes from within. When we look at how people,
maybe I'm getting off topic here, but in this concept of the
Wellness industry, it's always about behavior change.
(38:59):
You know, we want people to livea life of Wellness.
And so how does behavior change come?
You know, there's theories around, you know, self
determination theory. There's there's a lot out there
that people can unpack. But ultimately, if you're being
told to do something, it's you're going to fall short.
It will at some point, you know,you'll cross that path of this
(39:19):
isn't for me. Where is that internal
motivation or the internal desire to learn?
That's where I think this coaching aspect can really
compliment someone on that journey is to help collaborate
with them, to help them see their own desire for change.
What's realistic, What can they employ during the season of
(39:39):
their life. And I love to tell people, you
know, you're in a season just like Mother Nature.
There's the beginning and end tosummer and winter is amazing
because things need to go in an incubation period and have rest,
you know, for the renewal that spring brings.
So if we can find that in our own self.
(40:00):
But that's powerful, right? If I realize I'm in a season,
well, when I have a disruptor that comes along, I can work
with it, right, Instead of be totally derailed by it and I've
lost my footing. No, I'm just, I'm coming to a
new pathway in my season. We're always, you know, we're
dynamic people. Yes, I agree.
(40:21):
And I think that's such a good illustration of your own
practice of the abundance mindset, like seasonality and
going with the flow and being dynamic.
It's all part of the abundance mindset.
It's not. It's not like still, it's not
like static. It always changes, right?
(40:44):
You know, I think people, no onewants to self reflect.
Naturally. You get up and you start your
day and then the noise of the world takes over and you lie and
go to bed. And you know, sure, there's a
lot of people. I would say there's plenty of
people out there that have a really thriving meditative
practice and they do self examination and I want them to
continue, right? But there's many people who
(41:07):
don't do that. And what would get you to start
doing that? I think one thing is that
inventory of wait, let me look at, let me look at my life
stage. Where do I come from?
At one point, I was an adolescence.
At one point I was a young adult.
Today I'm, you know, I'm in my late 40s.
I'm in a complete different season than when I was in my
(41:30):
20s. And so that season alone, my
workout routine is going to lookdifferent.
What I eat is going to look different.
My sleep patterns are going to be different.
Right. Yeah.
We fall prey to these locked in.I'm supposed to be this way and
then forever. My life never changes except I
get more wrinkles. I mean, there's so many things
that are changing and life circumstances along the way that
(41:51):
maybe are beyond our control that create pivots, you know?
Yeah. Again, that's that's very, very
non judgmental. That's a very non judgmental way
of coaching and guiding people in exploring their own journeys,
right? That's just.
Famous. Yes.
Yeah. And I feel like your job
(42:13):
basically, if I were to maybe simplify it, is you are taking
care of people through art. Oh my gosh, I'd love that.
Just like made my heart sing. I think, yeah, it's beautiful.
Yes, Yeah, yes. Engagement through this
expressive art, I'm caring for people that is so beautiful and
(42:38):
they're really, you know, what they really are doing is they're
caring for themselves just like a vessel, right?
I'm a, I'm a, I'm a catalyst forthat to take.
You're a messenger. Yeah, a messenger.
I can work with that. That's great.
Yeah, that's beautiful. So I imagine, I mean myself
included, I would love to just experience your coaching at some
(42:59):
point. And for folks out there, they
are curious about expressive art.
How do people find you and work with you?
Connect with you either in person in California or
virtually? I love this.
Yes, well, first of all, a good place to find me would just be
my website, which is Sarah's art.com, CERAS art.com.
(43:23):
There's a lot of ways you can reach out to me through that.
I am a fan of what I call slow media, which simply means yes,
I'm online. I have a LinkedIn, I have
Instagram. It's not my go to, but I am on
it on it enough that I could seesome traction.
If someone wanted to message me,I would certainly respond.
(43:45):
I'm a little old fashioned. I love, you know, a Zoom so I
can see your face wherever you live.
The beautiful thing of coaching is we're not bound by licensures
that limit you to the state you're operating from.
So with this, you know, board certification, I can have
clients that live anywhere. It it just doesn't matter.
It's wonderful. So that that I would say just
(44:07):
the online route to get to me. You can also e-mail me with my
name, Sarah. Sarah at sarahsart.com, my
website name. That's really probably the best
way to find me without blasting my phone number on the podcast.
I think I'll take an April. That's fine.
Yeah, right. I love the term slow media.
(44:27):
We really, we don't need more. We don't need anything that's
faster or more mediate. And yeah, no.
Unfortunately, I'm gonna tell you, I just read something about
in HR, different HR communities I kind of try to stay afloat on
is the new term is toggle tax. And when you just digest that
(44:49):
for a minute, you've got people working, you know, and they have
e-mail, they have text messaging, they might have a
Slack feed they're part of, theymay have team notifications.
I mean, you fill in the blanks of all the different messaging
that creates this toggle effect for an individual.
And there's a fatigue that kicksin.
(45:10):
And what I don't want to do is add to it.
So yeah, slow media, 100%. And there's something magic that
happens when, you know, I'm a big fan of face to face, right?
If we can't do it physically in a shared space, we do it through
a virtual lens of a camera like Zoom.
And that that prompts A physiological connection.
(45:34):
We have the mirror neurons. You know, there's a regulatory
aspect that becomes it's actually we have a name for the
social engagement system. And that becomes activated and
people benefit when they get away from the text thread, when
they get away from the the mediathat is driving our economy and
our relationships. And we come to this old
(45:58):
fashioned face to face. It's amazing what can transpire.
And you know, I'm raising two teenagers now and I'll tell you,
I'm in the throes of put your eyes up, make eye contact.
You don't put the phone down, right?
And really they're, they're growing up in a time where
that's all they know is the social media and you know, that
(46:18):
method of communication. And I really look forward to
future research. It's going to come out that will
show either how we are evolving as a species who adapt to this
methodology that's taking over, or maybe show the disparities,
right, that are taking place with maybe disparities isn't the
right word, but it's really justa showcase how we are evolving
(46:41):
as people. What is happening to our brain
during these developmental phases that are so profound,
right for an adolescent, as an example, by always having this
toggle tax kick in? I don't know.
I mean, it's just fascinating, this whole other.
Camera Yeah, I really I yeah, I think that term toggle tax, yes,
(47:04):
that just feels like too much it's like.
I know it. It does.
I think it also summarizes probably what is going on for
people. I mean, the word tax already can
create some nervous system response, right?
Little arousal with that text time.
Nobody likes text toggle tax. It's exactly what's happening.
(47:25):
It's pings, you know, we're likeping pong ball.
We're going back and forth to all the different notifications
this coming through, that comingthrough and we're losing seen
the humanness of connection in the midst of it.
I mean, which is all the more reason why I'd love to work with
people and give them art and letthem play and get back in touch
with that human aspect of. There's something really healing
(47:47):
about being slow, like the slowness is really wonderful.
Slow and if I can add a term from positive psychology is
flow. Slow, yeah.
Yeah. So when you're engaged in
creativity, you can achieve flowstates, which is powerful.
It's it's like an endorphin rushfor some people.
(48:09):
Yeah, yeah. Well, I'll have to invite you
back and do another one about, you know, how.
How do we like, how do we teach ourselves or help ourselves to
be more, to be a little happier,to be a little bit more hopeful?
So that's for another conversation.
And thank you so much, Sarah, for your time today.
(48:32):
I learned a lot. I I mean now I want to I want to
try expressive art. That is so wonderful to hear.
I do think I just might tell people I said it's the
experience driven solution for mental health initiatives.
It is experience based and if you can get a box of crayons or
a Sharpie and the backside of anenvelope, there's a lot we can
(48:54):
do together. Yes, yes, and they're all
accessible. We don't need high tech.
Right, you have to spend a dime.Look at your junk drawer that
you have right now. We all have a junk drawer yes,
we just, you know, need some guidance and that's where I come
in to bring it to life. Thank you so much for today.
It's it's always just it's a dance, right?
(49:14):
It's always fun fun to it's. So enjoyable and thank you so
much Sarah.
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