Ever wondered how a family-owned hotel business can transform into a luxury boutique hotel collection that stands out in the global hospitality industry? Join us as we unravel this captivating journey with Vicki Tollman and Jonathan Raggett of the Red Carnation Hotel Collection. These leaders offer a unique insight into the Tollman family's rich history in hospitality, dating back to more than a century. They share how their passion for exceptional guest experiences has shaped the Red Carnation Group's reputation today.
As we transition into the second segment of our chat, Vicki and Jonathan touch on the exciting, and at times, emotional process of property acquisition and expansion. We discuss the sentimentality involved in cherry-picking properties to add to their collection. Listen as they share the delightful story of how the iconic Oyster Box Hotel in South Africa became part of their portfolio. They also highlight their commitment to nurturing their employees, exemplified in many success stories like that of their first employee.
In the final third of our conversation, we dive deep into sustainability in the hospitality industry – a buzzword that Red Carnation Hotels has molded into concrete action. Vicki and Jonathan discuss their initiatives like the Tread Right Foundation and how they involve the community and their employees in sustainable practices. They highlight steps taken towards waste reduction, support for local farmers, and their ongoing journey towards transparency in sustainability. Through our discussion, you'll discover how these values and practices have firmly placed Red Carnation Hotels at the forefront of the hospitality industry.
Thanks for joining us on today’s episode of The Intrepid Traveler podcast! If you enjoyed today’s episode, please rate and review our show to help us reach even more aspiring travelers. Don’t forget to check out our website, visit us on Facebook, Instagram or follow us on LinkedIn to stay up-to-date on our latest epic travel adventures!
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Episode Transcript
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Robin Cline (00:08):
Have you ever wondered how the pros put
together epic, tailor-madetravel adventures?
Welcome to the IntrepidTraveler Podcast.
I'm your host, robin Klein, andI'm going to explain to you
just how that is done during myconversation with today's guest.
When it comes to luxuryadventure and expedition travel,
the possibilities are endless.
(00:28):
In each episode, you'll hearfrom an expert in his or her
field about how theseexperiences, and more, are
created.
This episode of the IntrepidTraveler is brought to you by
Klein and Co Travel Consulting,a luxury adventure and
expedition travel planningcompany specializing in
un-Googleable experiences.
(00:49):
You can find us on the web atKleinandCoTravelcom.
On Instagram, at Klein and CoTravel, we have a private
Facebook group you are welcometo join.
You can find us on LinkedIn orcatch the video version on
YouTube.
With that said, let's welcometoday's guest.
Okay, good morning and welcomeback to another episode of the
(01:12):
Intrepid Traveler Podcast.
I say good morning.
It's good morning here in theUnited States, but it is good
afternoon in London, where ourguests are.
Today, we have got Vicki Tolmanand Jonathan Raggett with us
from the Red Car Nation HotelCollection.
Welcome to you both.
Jonathan Raggett (01:31):
It's great to be here.
It's great to be a guest.
Thank you very much for yourinvitation, robin.
Robin Cline (01:36):
Absolutely.
Vicki is a co-owner of thegroup, the hotels and properties
that we're going to talk abouta little bit today.
I appreciate you taking thetime to be with us.
It's really special, thank you.
Victoria Tollman (01:49):
Thank you for giving us the opportunity.
We both are happy to be here tosupport this.
Hopefully she will insightsinto who we are and Red Carn
ation and what makes us takeyeah, absolutely Well, that's
what we're going to get to.
Robin Cline (02:05):
But why don't you tell us first a little bit just
about your family's history?
Because you are in a veryunique situation where your
family actually founded thisbusiness and it's still family
run owned.
I just love that you're in thatposition to do that.
(02:25):
So tell us a little bit aboutthe history.
Victoria Tollman (02:28):
I think hospitality is in all of our
blood now because my grandfatherbought a very small hotel in a
very small fishing village over103 years ago.
It was called the PatanastaHotel.
My father grew up in the earlyfirst few years of his life
there.
At the time there was norunning water, there were no
(02:52):
indoor toilets, so it was verybasic hospitality.
But the years after that, as myfather got older and he joined
in the business, he was actuallystarting to be a pharmacist and
his parents went away and atthe time he would go away on
these long overseas trips.
So they were away for sixmonths and his father had said
(03:13):
keep an eye on the hotel.
And when his parents got backmy father was running the hotel,
had given up pharmacy, firedthe manager and was ready.
And that's how my dad got intohospitality.
So he grew up with it.
He knew the challenges.
It was a lot of.
My grandparents were running thehotels during World War II so
(03:34):
there were all the challenges atthe time.
So I think they learned thefundamental importance in
hospitality is just taking careof that one guest, and one guest
builds two, and so that's howmy family got in the business.
Then my father met my mom andthey actually had their first
(03:56):
date at one of our propertiesthat we now own, the Oyster Box,
and he had said to my mom Ireally hope one day to own a
hotel like this, because I camefrom a very humble background.
My mom was studying to be anursery school teacher I think
she was 17 at the time and mydad was 20.
So, yeah, I'm in full of dreams.
(04:17):
And then they got married ayear later and through the
wedding gift money they bought avery small hotel called the
Nacket in Johannesburg, and mymom had never worked in
hospitality but she learned howto do everything.
So she started in the kitchensand they slowly built what I
think was the first collectionof boutique hotels in South
(04:38):
Africa.
And they were side by side allthose years and continued to
work together All their lifeuntil my father unfortunately
passed away two years ago.
But they worked side by side inhospitality and the hotel
business was the greatestpassion and love that.
Robin Cline (04:58):
I love that.
Oh, that's great.
We'll get into the evolution ofhow the you know the properties
that you have added over theyears in just a minute.
But let me ask Jonathan tospeak to a little bit about your
story and journey intohospitality and joining the Red
(05:18):
Carnation Group.
Jonathan Raggett (05:21):
Thank you, robin.
So, yeah, my story is now 25years with Red Carnation Hotels.
Prior to that, I'd left school,I'd done a higher national
diploma in hotel management, aWestminster here in London, and
then I joined a managerialprogram and then worked on
(05:42):
departments and I had anopportunity to work in the UK,
in Europe, and actually prior tomeeting the Tollman family, I
worked in South Africa for acompany called Southern Science.
Okay, anyway, back in Europe Ihad the good fortune to meet
with Mrs Birkes Tollman and MrStanley Tollman you know
Biggie's parents who then tostay at the hotel that I was
(06:04):
managing at the time.
Cut to a long story, theyoffered me a position within the
company, which at that time wasto run a hotel that had just
been purchased for improvementand there's lots of fucking
dollars.
I'd also see the heart of a newhotel that Mr Stanley Tollman
had provisions of build, calledHotel, what he Was, and I
(06:27):
remember very well thinking Iwas very happy in the job I was
in.
But Sam, Ian, Mrs.
Tollman are so charismatic.
I was a fairly young man and Iremember he said to me if you do
a good job for Mrs Tollmanmyself and I need a really good
job.
You'll be part of our journeyas I go on the search to build a
(06:47):
hotel company, because at thattime we're only three.
Okay, and it was a great carrotand stick.
So in 1998, I came to London tomanage those properties.
London was doing very well atthat time and the Rubens Hotel,
porty One, really did very wellindeed, and so he's worked.
(07:07):
Mr Tollman said right, you cannow be the managing director of
the company, working for MrsTollman, we're the father of the
president and over the next 20years they were to buy another
16, 17 hotels to get thecollections where it is today.
And I honestly say it wouldseem a bit new being on this
(07:27):
call, that I've been in thiscompany now so long, because I
work for a company that reallycare about the properties.
We care even more about thepeople that work in the
properties and we all work justfor one thing and that is to be
successful together and so thatwe're big so where we can build
(07:49):
against all that competitors andto make it so.
That's the way we are today andit's that whole feeling that
runs throughout the company.
That's he's absolutelywonderful and last came from Mrs
Tollman and he still obviouslyruns our company and again,
without being too patronizing toVicky, who's on with that, I'll
look here with us right now andshe's taking the reins now and
(08:12):
doing all we can to make surethat branding is right and, I
think, relevant to, because, youknow, we've had some pretty
shocking years where we had toclose our hotels down throughout
the world and we all had tocome out of this and one thing
we've learned is that we dothings like we've always used to
do them.
That isn't right for today.
So we've done a lot of thingsover the last couple of years to
(08:32):
make sure we're relevant towhere we are today and how we
come out of this, actually evenstronger than we were at the
whole.
Robin Cline (08:41):
That's a huge testimony there and I can say,
having been to the hotels inLondon myself and visited and I
was lucky enough to stay at themilestone and meet several of
your hotel managers and so forththat you know the people that
are working with you are justabove and beyond and you know
(09:04):
they're so friendly and kind ofjust really truly have that
heart for hospitality that youcould, you could tell that the
people that are part of your I'mgoing to say family of the Red
Carn ation family it's not justa job for them.
Jonathan Raggett (09:20):
It's really, really nice to be saying that.
And look, we don't always getit right.
We don't always get it right,but I think we have some
phenomenal people in the worldwith so many years and we have a
really, really activemanagement program.
So a lot of our system managers, deputy managing GM, have been
on this program.
We have people that have beenin a certain department, that
(09:41):
had been in this training.
I think that's really importantto say that already, because I
think it seems to be very oftenfor most people to a position
that aren't ready for it.
So you have very blessed withthat, very high powered people
and culture seem to make surewe're getting this the train
wall of competence.
So the person takes the jobthey're ready to do so and then
you know Vicky, myself andobviously our great general
(10:03):
manager you do everythingpossible you can to support them
in their roles.
Robin Cline (10:07):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
Well, I mean.
A wonderful testimony to thatis Michelle Devlin at Edgerton
House, correct?
Jonathan Raggett (10:17):
Well, she was appointed many years ago as our
executive housekeeper just to goto a hotel and you know, one
thing that Vicky and I do dowell is we have a if he calls it
a nose, and you can see theright people.
You can see it's not justpeople being nice to us with
people of our respectivepositions, right company, you
(10:39):
see it throughout the hotel.
And she was a lady we both sawthat, you know, had great
integrity, had great respect forher team.
I'd be, more importantly,wanting to get on because, I
mean, you just remember, a lotof people that are executive
housekeeper are very happy inthat role, so they're not
upsetting, that's what they wantto be.
Enjoy them in that position.
But Michelle, in this case,would always have the hunger to
(11:03):
get to the top and be a generalmanager.
So it is just the mostwonderful cocktail when that
happens, because you get thebest of everything.
Robin Cline (11:12):
Yeah, I love it.
I love that you know thatsomebody can make that
transition and that you allowthem to.
So I think that that's just ahuge, huge testimony to you all
your ethos in your business, theculture there and yourself.
You know, jonathan, well,you're now the CEO, you know,
and now you're the.
You're the man.
Jonathan Raggett (11:31):
Well, I'll be just and we'll bring Vicky in
after this.
I'll just answer this one alittle bit more.
Four more questions.
You mentioned your stay that inmilestone in Kensington, which
is our flagship property inLondon.
I didn't buy it because thebrand GM there.
He was the first manager I everappointed and he joined me at
the Rubens where I joined.
He's 25 years in now.
(11:52):
Yes, yeah, and the even betterstory than Michelle's of many
one is he's Adam Lait.
He's the general manager at theChesterfield Hotel and whilst I
was at the Rubens with Andy Pyewe spotted this man that sat,
was in the back of house andcounting the dirty union,
bagging out to be sent out to belaundered.
And I just I mean he was doinga phenomenal job and it's a very
(12:15):
, very important job in thathotel.
Yes, but he had a certainsparkle.
I thought I want the guests tosee that sparkle.
Anyway, fast tracking this alittle bit, we've got everyone's
lots of trade going into thefront office tea.
The last five years he's beenthe general manager of the
Chesterfield Hotel, the manager,the managing director.
Now we've bought Stavicky andmyself in South Africa.
(12:38):
He's been with the company 18Wars.
Again, he was on our marriageprogram.
I went back and said you know,I know there are lots of small
examples, but I think it's justproof that you know, if you're,
this company will give you everyopportunity.
You'll work, johnny hard.
You will work Johnny hard, butyou'll be respected, for one day
(12:59):
you'll be given the tools to dothe job.
And yes, when we make a mistake, yes, we do.
You know, we were veryconcerned with all the kinds of
big sit them all.
They want to make sure we don'tmake the same mistake.
Robin Cline (13:11):
That's right, that's right, I love it.
That's fabulous.
So, and that's a great seguewhat you just said as far as the
properties.
So, vicki, tell us a little bitabout like I'm just going to
sort of go down the list becauseI think it's really impressive.
You know, I know that boutiquehotels, you know luxury and
boutique and also properties,because you have a couple of
properties, one being awilderness retreat in South
(13:35):
Africa as well as a safariproperty.
There's one property in Genevaand Switzerland.
We've got Ireland where we'vegot a castle.
There are city hotels in London.
So how do you all go aboutmaking the decisions about which
properties fit your companymodel and you know why you want
(13:56):
those properties to be part?
Victoria Tollman (13:58):
of it.
That's a very good questionbecause we're a very eclectic
collection of hotels and I thinkvery much this came about from
my parents, my father's visionof whether he wanted to be
places that mattered to us.
So South Africa we're alloriginally South Africans.
We left during apartheid and wenever went back after apartheid
(14:19):
and that was when my fatherwanted to get back into
hospitality and travel in SouthAfrica and the first hotel we
found was the Twelve Apostles,then Bushman's Chur and then the
Oysterbox came up.
So I think there's somesentimental attachment to why we
bought certain properties.
(14:40):
Geneva came apart because I hadjust moved to Geneva and I felt
that there was room for a redcarnation hotel, despite
hospitality being as famous asit was at the time.
And luckily enough theAngleterre just fit so well into
what we feel is much more of aBritish sort of quintessential
type of property.
(15:00):
So the Angleterre fitted inwell.
Ashford Castle my parents wentwith my brother Brett when he
was, I think, 12 or 13.
And when we heard about thatproperty coming in onto the
market.
So I think every hotel there'sbeen some sort of sentimental
link to it.
And then I think the Londonhotels my father really wanted
(15:24):
to be sure that we had somethingin most of the main locations,
from Mayfair in Zington toNightsbridge, Blue'sbury,
Victoria so we could accommodateguests looking for different
destinations.
So there's not really a formulato the way we go about it.
It was very much where we canspend time, where we have the
(15:47):
resources to support the teams,and then sometimes sentimental
reason.
Robin Cline (15:52):
Yeah, and I love that, because it's not that's
not just driven by what thebalance sheet says.
It sounds, with the sentimentalaspect to it, and you mentioned
earlier about when they went tothe Oysterbox, that your
father's saying to your motherthat someday he'd love to own a
hotel like this and then endedup.
(16:12):
So I'd be interested to knowthe story.
How did the acquisition of theOysterbox come up, then?
Victoria Tollman (16:18):
We feel it's a lovely story and we always say
that's where the love storybegan.
So, as I mentioned, they hadtheir first date there and then
the hotel had been in the handsof a family for many years and
had never changed ownership.
And when the original ownerpassed away and her family
(16:39):
inherited the hotel, they werebased, I think, in Australia and
they really wanted to find afamily that would not change the
DNA of the Oysterbox.
The Oysterbox has to be one ofSouth Africa's most cherished
and loved properties and whoeveryou meet in South Africa
they'll say oh, my granny tookme there for tea.
Oh, my parents got engaged.
There's so many South Africansthat have so many memories
(17:02):
that's been part of theirchildhood or their parents'
childhood or whatever.
So the family was called theMcKays and they knew of my
family being very hamster on,very caring being.
And I think one of the mostimportant things is they knew we
would keep the original.
We weren't going to turn itinto some high-rise modern thing
(17:25):
.
We were to hold on to what madethe Oriester box so famous Keep
it still.
And it Exactly.
Yeah, and it's quite funny,because we were so careful we
got so many letters, whateverpeople heard that we bought the
hotel.
Don't change this, please don'tchange that.
So we rarely listen to thefeedback and we try to hold on
(17:46):
to all the signature features inthe hotel, whether it was the
staircase or the tiles or and itwas so funny we did change a
lot of things, we kept a lot ofthings, but when people came
back they would go oh, Iremember that, but it never
existed before.
So we definitely managed toachieve the familiarity and
(18:06):
really it was um.
It was a wonderful opportunityto turn this hotel into the best
it could be, and I hope you'llhave the opportunity to go
because it is a very specialproperty.
So it was 60 years after myfather said that that we had the
opportunity.
We took two years to renovateit and today I think it's
(18:28):
probably one of South Africa'smost iconic um properties that
definitely all South Africansknow and have maybe experienced.
Robin Cline (18:37):
That's, that's wonderful, I love that.
And, um, while we're in Africa,let's talk for a minute about
the newest edition.
Uh, or I believe it's thenewest edition anyway, in Is it
Xigera?
Is it Xigera?
Yes, very hard, okay, all right.
Well, it's a little bitdispelling, just so for those
that are listening.
Starts with an X, and so youknow, you never quite know
(19:00):
exactly how to pronounce that,but I don't think I massacred it
too badly, oh, but but it'spronounced the last of the case.
So, chitra, oh okay, it's okayGreat, and this is in and this
is in Botswana, in the OkavangaDelta, so, and I, um, I
definitely have a passion.
(19:21):
I have not been to South Africayet, or or Botswana, so, um,
these are all high on my list,the things we're talking about,
but I love the story and thecare that you all took in
getting this property ready andintroducing it, and so tell us a
little on on about that storytoo.
Victoria Tollman (19:41):
Well, I would stick Chitra where my father's
last and greatest swan song,because he had always wanted to
have a red carnation safariexperience and my family were
very involved with wildernesssafaris, which you may know, and
I think when we became involvedin wilderness in 95, there were
eight properties and then theybecame the largest African
(20:04):
specialist and tour operatorwith, I think, over 70 lodges.
So we were very much part ofthe wilderness journey.
But my father always felt hewanted to create a safari
experience that had the DNA ofred carnation, so the warmth,
the love, the generoushospitality, making our guests
(20:26):
discover the best of Africa.
And so we had an opportunitythat Chitra came about.
And in fact, when we just didfrom wilderness, chitra was part
of that arrangement.
And now the chose Chitrabecause it offered both land and
water experience, which, as youknow, often safaris are either
(20:46):
one or the other right, and wewere in a very lucky position to
be able to offer both land andwater.
And also, where Chitra islocated, there's no other camps
very close by.
So, as you know, many safaris,when you go and they see a lion
or a leopard, suddenly you getevery camp in the area.
Well, you know the 20 vehicleswe so blessed because we don't
(21:10):
have anybody else.
So when there's that, you'llonly find guests from Chitra,
you know, looking at the game orwhatever.
So he then wanted to make it anexample in several areas.
One, how we treated our staff,because a lot of safaris in the
past you had these amazingsuites, yet where the team lived
was not right, necessarily themost comfortable.
(21:33):
So we built a staff villagewhere every single person has
their own accommodation spacefacilities.
I can't tell you some of ourrecognition hotels in London
would love the same behind thescenes as Chitra, and my parents
have always believed if youkeep your staff happy, they will
(21:54):
take care of your guests andmake sure your guests are happy.
So I think that was somethingvery important to him was to
ensure that our teams wereequally well looked after as our
own guests.
He then wanted it to be asustainable footprint, which we
all know how important that is.
So we brought in that I thinkit's the largest private
(22:17):
property with solar energy, soeverything in the large is 95%
is run through our solar programand our other sustainable
efforts of food, matter, wasteand all different initiatives.
Then he wanted it to be a placewhere our guests could discover
(22:37):
the talent of Africa.
There's such incredible art anddesign and artists coming out
of Africa, so we decided to turnit into a place where artists
could showcase their work andour guests could discover the
incredible talent that is comingout of Africa today.
So we have over 80 artists thathave featured at Chitra.
(22:59):
Oh my God, yes, it's amazing,and if guests love something,
they will love it Right throughthe park where we worked for.
So it's a lovely full circle asfar as supporting the artist.
He then, from his years ofexperience of being in the bush,
understood that 50% of a guestexperience is your interaction
(23:25):
with the team and food andbeverage and things like that.
So we've really tried tocultivate an experience for the
guests that they are having themost delicious food, that we're
working with the local suppliers.
We try and encourage ourcommunity.
So there's been so manydifferent wonderful pillars that
we've been able to integrate inChitra and I believe the
(23:50):
success is speaking for itselftoday as far as guest
recognition and the wonderfulrelationships we've built with
agents and, most of all, how theteam are so proud to be working
there.
So that's really, pedro.
I hope that answered what.
Robin Cline (24:12):
Yes, no, it does, Absolutely, and I've just I've
heard wonderful things about itand certainly can't wait to get
there myself, but to itself likethat First of all.
So, yes, absolutely, yeah,we'll talk.
We'll talk after we finishrecording about that, see what
we can negotiate.
Well, let me go back toJonathan for just a second here,
(24:36):
because I know that you, likemost people in your position,
are very modest about this, butI do want to say that you, just
like two days, three days ago,had a very significant award
that was well deserved from isit caterer?
Is that correct, and I'm not onthat to get from any hospital.
(25:00):
Oh, that's right.
I read it on caterer, sorry,yes, okay.
Jonathan Raggett (25:03):
Absolutely.
Yeah, the star ratings out andthe rosette smoke.
Robin Cline (25:08):
Yes, yes, exactly, and you had a lifetime
achievement award, which youdon't see hardly enough old
enough to have anything that'sconsidered lifetime, but
hopefully there'll be anotheryou know number of years to
carry on with this one.
Jonathan Raggett (25:23):
Maybe I can win it again in 20 years time.
Robin Cline (25:25):
right, right, there you go Be a repeat multi, but I
did want to just publicize acongratulations about that
because that is a hugeachievement and I think anytime
you get something like that,that is, you know, obviously
your peers and people areindustry wide have recognized
you for the work you're doingand well, thank you.
Jonathan Raggett (25:47):
But yeah, if you're all right, I was.
I was truly delighted andhumbled to win your award.
I do want to caveat that withsaying that certainly in the
last 25 years, the team andpeople I've worked with, and the
ownership I've alreadymentioned, will be hugely
supportive for this, and I alsothink that hotels are a
wonderful business.
That's that many of my friendsout there are Italian and whilst
(26:11):
we are competing and of coursehe was a bit out of each house I
think he's a business, likemany that are, so we'll share
ideas and we'll welcome you tosee what's going on.
I know that you know there's areal sequence to our business,
so clearly we don't need toremember the names of our key
accounts, but we do share bestpractices or what we're doing
(26:33):
right, and so you know he wasvery nice to have some very nice
words from many of them for theawards.
So it's great.
I think, like all things that Ialready do mean this he's been
a great, nice and great next day, but you move all quickly and
that you keep relevance and thatyou make sure that you do your
(26:54):
very best from the people in thehotels, but that makes you feel
for recognizing.
Robin Cline (26:58):
No, no, absolutely.
And you know, while we're kindof on that note, I think that
something that I feel like setsyou all apart are.
There are two things that Inoticed.
Well, actually three things.
I'll say quickly that I reallynoticed when I was there how
everybody in the hotels workwell together, they're fine and
(27:19):
respectful to one another, andthat you don't have that feeling
of there being this likehierarchy there's, you know, to
go through the halls, you knowit's such a family feeling among
you, and I even and hesitate tosay employees, even though they
are, because it just doesn'tfeel that way.
So it's a lovely feeling.
The other thing is is you allhave a very strong commitment to
(27:41):
sustainability, which we'll getinto here in just a second.
And also in the hotels atLondon, I noticed the commitment
to the historical integrity ofthese buildings, and I know that
some of that is, you know,mandated, but I also felt like
you all take that a step beyondand go over and above to really
(28:03):
maintain, like I say, thehistorical integrity.
When maybe you could get awaywith making some changes, I feel
like you've chosen not to.
Is that correct?
Victoria Tollman (28:15):
I think that was also very much the vision of
my father that he there was a.
You know, when the group wasgetting bigger, he would say I
don't want you branding this asa red carnation.
This hotel meets to stand onits own and one of the suit does
not fit all in red carnation.
So we've tried to balance wherenow the red carnation, the
(28:38):
lineings being recognized as acollection of hotels, but where
each hotel shines in its ownright is its own family and then
part of a bigger family.
But I think we've, we've beenso lucky that our teams do have
this complicity, solidarity,support each other.
(28:59):
I think it comes from differentreasons from our managers, from
Jonathan, from my family, fromour PNC department, the training
, the things that matter to us.
So I think it's a combinationof things and that's also the
hotel's heritage we have torespect the bones and so that
(29:20):
helps define the style and verymuch the personality of each
hotel.
And then on the sustainableside, I'm sure Jonathan, who's
one of our sustainable championsin TTC, where we have the Tread
Right Foundation, and it's soimportant to us to do what's
(29:43):
right For the environment, yes,for the communities and, just as
a human being, like what is ourresponsibility in the business?
And then the person, me.
So it's a very important pillarand I think we've done a lot of
things and continue to striveto do more things, and Jonathan,
(30:04):
who's absolutely passionateabout this, I'm sure will be
delighted to share more I could,but I mean, I think he will be
able to share other things too.
Robin Cline (30:13):
Yeah, why don't you just share a little bit more
about that, jonathan?
Because I think that, eventhough it's kind of a buzzword
these days to be sustainable andall that, it's more than paper
straws and plastic bottles.
All the plastic bottles aboutmake me insane.
So talk a little more like ahotel as a whole.
How do you go about looking atthat and making the footprint
(30:37):
less?
Jonathan Raggett (30:38):
while still providing.
There's no silver bullets inthis Robin.
It is a journey In any businessthat's going on.
This journey needs tounderstand what they are doing.
Yeah, and there's a lot ofgreen watch going out there
where I'm saying we're doing it,but I think they're going to be
in trouble with years goingforwards because what they're
(30:59):
saying they're going to be trueinfluence and people are stupid
and they do want to know what'sgoing on.
So, again, very lucky.
My entire show tells us.
We're owned by the travelcorporation which again, is part
of the Victoria Tolman's familyand it's directed from a
fantastic way to support us.
(31:20):
So we have some of these bigtravel matters and experiences
where, again, we invite gueststo come and stay with us and for
them to get back to thecommunities should they wish to.
And we find more and more todayif we're looking to come and
enjoy experiences.
We've had very few people.
(31:41):
Now I'm allergic.
When you're just coming for abed and a dining experience and
a spa, I mean that's all part ofit.
That's taking the risk Right,playing out.
People want to enjoy and see andjust feel.
You know they're givingsomething back, because the
world we live in today obviouslyhas the them and the don't have
it.
It's just trying to bring itslightly more together.
(32:03):
So we work on, I think, a lotof parents today.
They want their children tokind of understand as well that
young children are on.
Talking to young children, thosepeople that live in towns and
cities where you can know wherefruits and vegetables even come
from, because they go tosupermarket and that's where it
is We'll take you, how do you doit?
So one of the experiences we doin the area is we take the only
(32:26):
children and parents with theirshare to a place called Borough
Market here in London where allsorts of juices local and it's
that again it's people coming tosell what they have reduced.
Yeah, yeah, it's all very localand the chef would explain to
the family about where it's comefrom, what's needed, how we
(32:47):
have to buy things, how thewaste product can be used, take
it back to the hotel and whatwe'll put with those ingredients
.
Robin Cline (32:54):
That's my splash, I love to do this.
Jonathan Raggett (32:57):
Three, six, so that's not.
I went with the chef.
Actually he was like I'm notsurprised, I'm just a seven year
old child, a bright seven yearold child.
He's like asking all thesegreat, great questions.
And I had no idea that potatoeswere in the grouse Right, and
(33:17):
we had.
We had a whole lecture of these.
We very proudly put those ontoour website and find more and
more products Now, throughoutall of that, around our 19,.
Probably just the way we have.
But that's one side of thingswe're doing.
And then the more obvious oneis we've been now for several
years managing our waste,because you don't know what look
(33:37):
thrown away until you measureit.
And so we measure everythingthat we throw away.
And then, more importantly, wesee what we're throwing away
these things, our cameras andthen we adjust what we buy.
So we used to buy far too muchbakery, rather too much bread,
so we've adjusted what we buynow so that there is less waste.
(33:59):
I'm saying they'll be somewasted, so we're affected out
through waste to get exactly theright things.
There are so many parts of theworld that have an update, so
now hotels need to be generous,but you have to be able to do
what they do.
We don't have any single useplastic in our hotels anymore.
We work really hard on that.
The only thing we haven'tovercome yet is the suppliers
(34:20):
still bring things to us and acolor of plastic.
We will kick back once we comethrough this.
It's, you know, everyone'shaving their challenges in the
world right now in terms offinding people to do this that
Now we'll kick back on it.
We won't work with people thathave that the same as us.
So the whole string of thingsand that's just the final thing
(34:41):
to say on this.
You said, keep it short.
The success of this isn't justmyself and Vicky Tolman
ownership being keen on this.
This is about bringing peoplethrough.
So we have a really strongcommunity that will work enough
of a towels to ensure that atthe rather than town balls tea
parties we have, we're making ita subject matter.
(35:02):
We have a quarterly staffnewsletters.
We send out a guest.
It's always a big feature ofwhat we're doing.
So now we're encouraging peopleto contribute, we're
encouraging people to askquestions and we're showing the
importance of it to us and we'remaking it one of the
cornerstones of what we do theimportance of where we are,
which makes it because anythingworks in life and it's
(35:23):
sustainable.
He's absolutely right.
If we just sort of grow alittle wonder there and pretend
we're getting it, you reallyneed to get that.
Robin Cline (35:30):
I agree 100% and you know it's interesting.
I am noticing in my clientsthat that is something that has
become more of a conversationand they want to know who is.
You know who are making theseefforts and who aren't, and I
love that.
And I also love that.
Who knows how many buddingJamie Oliver's you all are
(35:52):
getting going there by doingthis program.
This is like fabulous.
So, yeah, yeah.
So, vicki, you wanted to saysomething, yeah.
Victoria Tollman (36:00):
I also wanted to say how inspired we are by so
many of the young members ofour team who it's it's so
important to them, and everysingle employee, in recognition,
gets to paid volunteer days ayear so they can use those days
to support a charity theybelieve in.
To be in a release to do so.
(36:23):
I think we we try and walk thetalk.
You know there's been so muchtalk about sustainability and,
as Jonathan mentioned, the maketravel matter, experiences that
our guests can have, but I thinkit's also the impact on the
community around us.
So helping smaller suppliers,yeah, I'd love to share another
(36:46):
story and initiative that Ithink is quite special.
It's the Auschwitz, which ourwilderness retreat in the
Seedburg mountains.
It's just outside Cape Town, orthree hours from Cape Town, and
they have Cape Mountainleopards and around the property
there's quite a lot of sheepfarmers and these Cape Mountain
(37:08):
leopards.
They very elusive.
I can't say that guests get tosee them or even aware of them.
They would come and attack thesheep, the sheep farmers, and so
the sheep would be all other.
The farmers would always killthe leopards if they found them.
So once again, my father thoughthow could we prevent this
happening and how can we helpthe farmers?
(37:29):
So we started a project withAnatolian sheep dogs and we
brought over sheep dogs and gavethem to the farmers and the
leopards are very scared of thesheep dogs.
So it's been such a wonderfulproject and I think there's been
one leopard that's been shotsince then.
I think they have over 15 dogsnow at different farms.
(37:52):
Guests can go and speak to thefarmers.
These they're not very friendlydogs.
They live amongst the sheep sothey can't really interact with
the guests, but farmers do.
So it's kind of such a nicetrail, so to speak, and knowing
that we're doing good and Ithink it's.
Everyone in hospitality or thetravel business today has a
(38:15):
certain responsibility, as muchas they can to make a difference
or to raise the awareness oftheir clients or their guests or
their teams.
So we just take it veryseriously and do the best we can
with them.
Robin Cline (38:35):
Like you said, it's walk the talk and it obviously
is what you all are doing on allfronts, and the thing that I'm
hearing in all of that, too, isthat what's happening here is,
as you're doing, things likehelping the community with
providing the guard dogs, thesheep dogs for them and also the
training that your employeesare getting in the days that
(38:56):
they get, they're going to betaking these practices home to
their families, and then that'sgoing to spread.
They're going to their children, are going to learn these
things and the new, youngergeneration that's coming in is
going to learn these things, andthen that starts to flow
outward, and that's really theonly way any of us are going to
be able to make any of thesechanges.
(39:17):
I mean, we can legislate all wewant, but unless we teach
people why these things areimportant and help them to
understand that, that's notgoing to make a difference.
I don't like it.
Victoria Tollman (39:29):
It's so true, it's exactly that.
Yeah, yeah so oh my gosh.
Robin Cline (39:34):
Well, I could just talk all day to both of you
about all this.
I think, though, it's probablya good time and a good place to
end our conversation, but I wantto thank you both so much, and
just know that I'm a big fan,love being able to have people
come be your guests, becausethey're always so well cared for
(39:55):
and everyone goes above andbeyond, so I feel very, very
fortunate to have learned aboutyour properties and to be able
to support them, and for you allto help take care of my very
special clients.
Victoria Tollman (40:12):
Thank you.
Thank you for giving us theopportunity, and the one thing I
can proudly say is we will doour very best to take care of
your clients, and it's all aboutthe relationship.
So thank you for allowing usthe opportunity to speak with
you today?
Robin Cline (40:30):
Absolutely yes, thank you and thank you,
jonathan.
I appreciate you taking thetime because I know you are a
busy man.
Jonathan Raggett (40:37):
I'm going to tell it to all of it it's we do
these things and it's alwaysnice when the person is as
lonely as you just speak to you.
So we genuinely thank you foryour time and your friendship to
both us and Rick on our nation.
Those are really well,absolutely.
Robin Cline (40:53):
Like you just said, we all know, in this business
it's all about relationshipsbecause and it's all about the
passion we have for thisbusiness, because we wouldn't do
it otherwise.
That wraps up today's episodeof the Intrepid Traveler.
Thank you for tuning in andthank you to today's guests for
joining me.
I'll be back again in two weekswith another exciting episode
(41:15):
featuring another guest with astory that is sure to pique your
interest.
Please subscribe to theIntrepid Traveler on your
favorite listening channel andgive us a review.
Once again, today's episode hasbeen brought to you by Clining
Co Travel Consulting, a luxuryadventure and expedition travel
planning company specializing inun-googleable experiences.
Have you ever wondered how the pros put
together epic, tailor-madetravel adventures?
Welcome to the IntrepidTraveler Podcast.
I'm your host, robin Klein, andI'm going to explain to you
just how that is done during myconversation with today's guest.
When it comes to luxuryadventure and expedition travel,
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(00:28):
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This episode of the IntrepidTraveler is brought to you by
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(00:49):
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YouTube.
With that said, let's welcometoday's guest.
Okay, good morning and welcomeback to another episode of the
(01:12):
Intrepid Traveler Podcast.
I say good morning.
It's good morning here in theUnited States, but it is good
afternoon in London, where ourguests are.
Today, we have got Vicki Tolmanand Jonathan Raggett with us
from the Red Car Nation HotelCollection.
Welcome to you both.
Jonathan Raggett (01:31):
It's great to be here.
It's great to be a guest.
Thank you very much for yourinvitation, robin.
Robin Cline (01:36):
Absolutely.
Vicki is a co-owner of thegroup, the hotels and properties
that we're going to talk abouta little bit today.
I appreciate you taking thetime to be with us.
It's really special, thank you.
Victoria Tollman (01:49):
Thank you for giving us the opportunity.
We both are happy to be here tosupport this.
Hopefully she will insightsinto who we are and Red Carn
ation and what makes us takeyeah, absolutely Well, that's
what we're going to get to.
Robin Cline (02:05):
But why don't you tell us first a little bit just
about your family's history?
Because you are in a veryunique situation where your
family actually founded thisbusiness and it's still family
run owned.
I just love that you're in thatposition to do that.
(02:25):
So tell us a little bit aboutthe history.
Victoria Tollman (02:28):
I think hospitality is in all of our
blood now because my grandfatherbought a very small hotel in a
very small fishing village over103 years ago.
It was called the PatanastaHotel.
My father grew up in the earlyfirst few years of his life
there.
At the time there was norunning water, there were no
(02:52):
indoor toilets, so it was verybasic hospitality.
But the years after that, as myfather got older and he joined
in the business, he was actuallystarting to be a pharmacist and
his parents went away and atthe time he would go away on
these long overseas trips.
So they were away for sixmonths and his father had said
(03:13):
keep an eye on the hotel.
And when his parents got backmy father was running the hotel,
had given up pharmacy, firedthe manager and was ready.
And that's how my dad got intohospitality.
So he grew up with it.
He knew the challenges.
It was a lot of.
My grandparents were running thehotels during World War II so
(03:34):
there were all the challenges atthe time.
So I think they learned thefundamental importance in
hospitality is just taking careof that one guest, and one guest
builds two, and so that's howmy family got in the business.
Then my father met my mom andthey actually had their first
(03:56):
date at one of our propertiesthat we now own, the Oyster Box,
and he had said to my mom Ireally hope one day to own a
hotel like this, because I camefrom a very humble background.
My mom was studying to be anursery school teacher I think
she was 17 at the time and mydad was 20.
So, yeah, I'm in full of dreams.
(04:17):
And then they got married ayear later and through the
wedding gift money they bought avery small hotel called the
Nacket in Johannesburg, and mymom had never worked in
hospitality but she learned howto do everything.
So she started in the kitchensand they slowly built what I
think was the first collectionof boutique hotels in South
(04:38):
Africa.
And they were side by side allthose years and continued to
work together All their lifeuntil my father unfortunately
passed away two years ago.
But they worked side by side inhospitality and the hotel
business was the greatestpassion and love that.
Robin Cline (04:58):
I love that.
Oh, that's great.
We'll get into the evolution ofhow the you know the properties
that you have added over theyears in just a minute.
But let me ask Jonathan tospeak to a little bit about your
story and journey intohospitality and joining the Red
(05:18):
Carnation Group.
Jonathan Raggett (05:21):
Thank you, robin.
So, yeah, my story is now 25years with Red Carnation Hotels.
Prior to that, I'd left school,I'd done a higher national
diploma in hotel management, aWestminster here in London, and
then I joined a managerialprogram and then worked on
(05:42):
departments and I had anopportunity to work in the UK,
in Europe, and actually prior tomeeting the Tollman family, I
worked in South Africa for acompany called Southern Science.
Okay, anyway, back in Europe Ihad the good fortune to meet
with Mrs Birkes Tollman and MrStanley Tollman you know
Biggie's parents who then tostay at the hotel that I was
(06:04):
managing at the time.
Cut to a long story, theyoffered me a position within the
company, which at that time wasto run a hotel that had just
been purchased for improvementand there's lots of fucking
dollars.
I'd also see the heart of a newhotel that Mr Stanley Tollman
had provisions of build, calledHotel, what he Was, and I
(06:27):
remember very well thinking Iwas very happy in the job I was
in.
But Sam, Ian, Mrs.
Tollman are so charismatic.
I was a fairly young man and Iremember he said to me if you do
a good job for Mrs Tollmanmyself and I need a really good
job.
You'll be part of our journeyas I go on the search to build a
(06:47):
hotel company, because at thattime we're only three.
Okay, and it was a great carrotand stick.
So in 1998, I came to London tomanage those properties.
London was doing very well atthat time and the Rubens Hotel,
porty One, really did very wellindeed, and so he's worked.
(07:07):
Mr Tollman said right, you cannow be the managing director of
the company, working for MrsTollman, we're the father of the
president and over the next 20years they were to buy another
16, 17 hotels to get thecollections where it is today.
And I honestly say it wouldseem a bit new being on this
(07:27):
call, that I've been in thiscompany now so long, because I
work for a company that reallycare about the properties.
We care even more about thepeople that work in the
properties and we all work justfor one thing and that is to be
successful together and so thatwe're big so where we can build
(07:49):
against all that competitors andto make it so.
That's the way we are today andit's that whole feeling that
runs throughout the company.
That's he's absolutelywonderful and last came from Mrs
Tollman and he still obviouslyruns our company and again,
without being too patronizing toVicky, who's on with that, I'll
look here with us right now andshe's taking the reins now and
(08:12):
doing all we can to make surethat branding is right and, I
think, relevant to, because, youknow, we've had some pretty
shocking years where we had toclose our hotels down throughout
the world and we all had tocome out of this and one thing
we've learned is that we dothings like we've always used to
do them.
That isn't right for today.
So we've done a lot of thingsover the last couple of years to
(08:32):
make sure we're relevant towhere we are today and how we
come out of this, actually evenstronger than we were at the
whole.
Robin Cline (08:41):
That's a huge testimony there and I can say,
having been to the hotels inLondon myself and visited and I
was lucky enough to stay at themilestone and meet several of
your hotel managers and so forththat you know the people that
are working with you are justabove and beyond and you know
(09:04):
they're so friendly and kind ofjust really truly have that
heart for hospitality that youcould, you could tell that the
people that are part of your I'mgoing to say family of the Red
Carn ation family it's not justa job for them.
Jonathan Raggett (09:20):
It's really, really nice to be saying that.
And look, we don't always getit right.
We don't always get it right,but I think we have some
phenomenal people in the worldwith so many years and we have a
really, really activemanagement program.
So a lot of our system managers, deputy managing GM, have been
on this program.
We have people that have beenin a certain department, that
(09:41):
had been in this training.
I think that's really importantto say that already, because I
think it seems to be very oftenfor most people to a position
that aren't ready for it.
So you have very blessed withthat, very high powered people
and culture seem to make surewe're getting this the train
wall of competence.
So the person takes the jobthey're ready to do so and then
you know Vicky, myself andobviously our great general
(10:03):
manager you do everythingpossible you can to support them
in their roles.
Robin Cline (10:07):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
Well, I mean.
A wonderful testimony to thatis Michelle Devlin at Edgerton
House, correct?
Jonathan Raggett (10:17):
Well, she was appointed many years ago as our
executive housekeeper just to goto a hotel and you know, one
thing that Vicky and I do dowell is we have a if he calls it
a nose, and you can see theright people.
You can see it's not justpeople being nice to us with
people of our respectivepositions, right company, you
(10:39):
see it throughout the hotel.
And she was a lady we both sawthat, you know, had great
integrity, had great respect forher team.
I'd be, more importantly,wanting to get on because, I
mean, you just remember, a lotof people that are executive
housekeeper are very happy inthat role, so they're not
upsetting, that's what they wantto be.
Enjoy them in that position.
But Michelle, in this case,would always have the hunger to
(11:03):
get to the top and be a generalmanager.
So it is just the mostwonderful cocktail when that
happens, because you get thebest of everything.
Robin Cline (11:12):
Yeah, I love it.
I love that you know thatsomebody can make that
transition and that you allowthem to.
So I think that that's just ahuge, huge testimony to you all
your ethos in your business, theculture there and yourself.
You know, jonathan, well,you're now the CEO, you know,
and now you're the.
You're the man.
Jonathan Raggett (11:31):
Well, I'll be just and we'll bring Vicky in
after this.
I'll just answer this one alittle bit more.
Four more questions.
You mentioned your stay that inmilestone in Kensington, which
is our flagship property inLondon.
I didn't buy it because thebrand GM there.
He was the first manager I everappointed and he joined me at
the Rubens where I joined.
He's 25 years in now.
(11:52):
Yes, yeah, and the even betterstory than Michelle's of many
one is he's Adam Lait.
He's the general manager at theChesterfield Hotel and whilst I
was at the Rubens with Andy Pyewe spotted this man that sat,
was in the back of house andcounting the dirty union,
bagging out to be sent out to belaundered.
And I just I mean he was doinga phenomenal job and it's a very
(12:15):
, very important job in thathotel.
Yes, but he had a certainsparkle.
I thought I want the guests tosee that sparkle.
Anyway, fast tracking this alittle bit, we've got everyone's
lots of trade going into thefront office tea.
The last five years he's beenthe general manager of the
Chesterfield Hotel, the manager,the managing director.
Now we've bought Stavicky andmyself in South Africa.
(12:38):
He's been with the company 18Wars.
Again, he was on our marriageprogram.
I went back and said you know,I know there are lots of small
examples, but I think it's justproof that you know, if you're,
this company will give you everyopportunity.
You'll work, johnny hard.
You will work Johnny hard, butyou'll be respected, for one day
(12:59):
you'll be given the tools to dothe job.
And yes, when we make a mistake, yes, we do.
You know, we were veryconcerned with all the kinds of
big sit them all.
They want to make sure we don'tmake the same mistake.
Robin Cline (13:11):
That's right, that's right, I love it.
That's fabulous.
So, and that's a great seguewhat you just said as far as the
properties.
So, vicki, tell us a little bitabout like I'm just going to
sort of go down the list becauseI think it's really impressive.
You know, I know that boutiquehotels, you know luxury and
boutique and also properties,because you have a couple of
properties, one being awilderness retreat in South
(13:35):
Africa as well as a safariproperty.
There's one property in Genevaand Switzerland.
We've got Ireland where we'vegot a castle.
There are city hotels in London.
So how do you all go aboutmaking the decisions about which
properties fit your companymodel and you know why you want
(13:56):
those properties to be part?
Victoria Tollman (13:58):
of it.
That's a very good questionbecause we're a very eclectic
collection of hotels and I thinkvery much this came about from
my parents, my father's visionof whether he wanted to be
places that mattered to us.
So South Africa we're alloriginally South Africans.
We left during apartheid and wenever went back after apartheid
(14:19):
and that was when my fatherwanted to get back into
hospitality and travel in SouthAfrica and the first hotel we
found was the Twelve Apostles,then Bushman's Chur and then the
Oysterbox came up.
So I think there's somesentimental attachment to why we
bought certain properties.
(14:40):
Geneva came apart because I hadjust moved to Geneva and I felt
that there was room for a redcarnation hotel, despite
hospitality being as famous asit was at the time.
And luckily enough theAngleterre just fit so well into
what we feel is much more of aBritish sort of quintessential
type of property.
(15:00):
So the Angleterre fitted inwell.
Ashford Castle my parents wentwith my brother Brett when he
was, I think, 12 or 13.
And when we heard about thatproperty coming in onto the
market.
So I think every hotel there'sbeen some sort of sentimental
link to it.
And then I think the Londonhotels my father really wanted
(15:24):
to be sure that we had somethingin most of the main locations,
from Mayfair in Zington toNightsbridge, Blue'sbury,
Victoria so we could accommodateguests looking for different
destinations.
So there's not really a formulato the way we go about it.
It was very much where we canspend time, where we have the
(15:47):
resources to support the teams,and then sometimes sentimental
reason.
Robin Cline (15:52):
Yeah, and I love that, because it's not that's
not just driven by what thebalance sheet says.
It sounds, with the sentimentalaspect to it, and you mentioned
earlier about when they went tothe Oysterbox, that your
father's saying to your motherthat someday he'd love to own a
hotel like this and then endedup.
(16:12):
So I'd be interested to knowthe story.
How did the acquisition of theOysterbox come up, then?
Victoria Tollman (16:18):
We feel it's a lovely story and we always say
that's where the love storybegan.
So, as I mentioned, they hadtheir first date there and then
the hotel had been in the handsof a family for many years and
had never changed ownership.
And when the original ownerpassed away and her family
(16:39):
inherited the hotel, they werebased, I think, in Australia and
they really wanted to find afamily that would not change the
DNA of the Oysterbox.
The Oysterbox has to be one ofSouth Africa's most cherished
and loved properties and whoeveryou meet in South Africa
they'll say oh, my granny tookme there for tea.
Oh, my parents got engaged.
There's so many South Africansthat have so many memories
(17:02):
that's been part of theirchildhood or their parents'
childhood or whatever.
So the family was called theMcKays and they knew of my
family being very hamster on,very caring being.
And I think one of the mostimportant things is they knew we
would keep the original.
We weren't going to turn itinto some high-rise modern thing
(17:25):
.
We were to hold on to what madethe Oriester box so famous Keep
it still.
And it Exactly.
Yeah, and it's quite funny,because we were so careful we
got so many letters, whateverpeople heard that we bought the
hotel.
Don't change this, please don'tchange that.
So we rarely listen to thefeedback and we try to hold on
(17:46):
to all the signature features inthe hotel, whether it was the
staircase or the tiles or and itwas so funny we did change a
lot of things, we kept a lot ofthings, but when people came
back they would go oh, Iremember that, but it never
existed before.
So we definitely managed toachieve the familiarity and
(18:06):
really it was um.
It was a wonderful opportunityto turn this hotel into the best
it could be, and I hope you'llhave the opportunity to go
because it is a very specialproperty.
So it was 60 years after myfather said that that we had the
opportunity.
We took two years to renovateit and today I think it's
(18:28):
probably one of South Africa'smost iconic um properties that
definitely all South Africansknow and have maybe experienced.
Robin Cline (18:37):
That's, that's wonderful, I love that.
And, um, while we're in Africa,let's talk for a minute about
the newest edition.
Uh, or I believe it's thenewest edition anyway, in Is it
Xigera?
Is it Xigera?
Yes, very hard, okay, all right.
Well, it's a little bitdispelling, just so for those
that are listening.
Starts with an X, and so youknow, you never quite know
(19:00):
exactly how to pronounce that,but I don't think I massacred it
too badly, oh, but but it'spronounced the last of the case.
So, chitra, oh okay, it's okayGreat, and this is in and this
is in Botswana, in the OkavangaDelta, so, and I, um, I
definitely have a passion.
(19:21):
I have not been to South Africayet, or or Botswana, so, um,
these are all high on my list,the things we're talking about,
but I love the story and thecare that you all took in
getting this property ready andintroducing it, and so tell us a
little on on about that storytoo.
Victoria Tollman (19:41):
Well, I would stick Chitra where my father's
last and greatest swan song,because he had always wanted to
have a red carnation safariexperience and my family were
very involved with wildernesssafaris, which you may know, and
I think when we became involvedin wilderness in 95, there were
eight properties and then theybecame the largest African
(20:04):
specialist and tour operatorwith, I think, over 70 lodges.
So we were very much part ofthe wilderness journey.
But my father always felt hewanted to create a safari
experience that had the DNA ofred carnation, so the warmth,
the love, the generoushospitality, making our guests
(20:26):
discover the best of Africa.
And so we had an opportunitythat Chitra came about.
And in fact, when we just didfrom wilderness, chitra was part
of that arrangement.
And now the chose Chitrabecause it offered both land and
water experience, which, as youknow, often safaris are either
(20:46):
one or the other right, and wewere in a very lucky position to
be able to offer both land andwater.
And also, where Chitra islocated, there's no other camps
very close by.
So, as you know, many safaris,when you go and they see a lion
or a leopard, suddenly you getevery camp in the area.
Well, you know the 20 vehicleswe so blessed because we don't
(21:10):
have anybody else.
So when there's that, you'llonly find guests from Chitra,
you know, looking at the game orwhatever.
So he then wanted to make it anexample in several areas.
One, how we treated our staff,because a lot of safaris in the
past you had these amazingsuites, yet where the team lived
was not right, necessarily themost comfortable.
(21:33):
So we built a staff villagewhere every single person has
their own accommodation spacefacilities.
I can't tell you some of ourrecognition hotels in London
would love the same behind thescenes as Chitra, and my parents
have always believed if youkeep your staff happy, they will
(21:54):
take care of your guests andmake sure your guests are happy.
So I think that was somethingvery important to him was to
ensure that our teams wereequally well looked after as our
own guests.
He then wanted it to be asustainable footprint, which we
all know how important that is.
So we brought in that I thinkit's the largest private
(22:17):
property with solar energy, soeverything in the large is 95%
is run through our solar programand our other sustainable
efforts of food, matter, wasteand all different initiatives.
Then he wanted it to be a placewhere our guests could discover
(22:37):
the talent of Africa.
There's such incredible art anddesign and artists coming out
of Africa, so we decided to turnit into a place where artists
could showcase their work andour guests could discover the
incredible talent that is comingout of Africa today.
So we have over 80 artists thathave featured at Chitra.
(22:59):
Oh my God, yes, it's amazing,and if guests love something,
they will love it Right throughthe park where we worked for.
So it's a lovely full circle asfar as supporting the artist.
He then, from his years ofexperience of being in the bush,
understood that 50% of a guestexperience is your interaction
(23:25):
with the team and food andbeverage and things like that.
So we've really tried tocultivate an experience for the
guests that they are having themost delicious food, that we're
working with the local suppliers.
We try and encourage ourcommunity.
So there's been so manydifferent wonderful pillars that
we've been able to integrate inChitra and I believe the
(23:50):
success is speaking for itselftoday as far as guest
recognition and the wonderfulrelationships we've built with
agents and, most of all, how theteam are so proud to be working
there.
So that's really, pedro.
I hope that answered what.
Robin Cline (24:12):
Yes, no, it does, Absolutely, and I've just I've
heard wonderful things about itand certainly can't wait to get
there myself, but to itself likethat First of all.
So, yes, absolutely, yeah,we'll talk.
We'll talk after we finishrecording about that, see what
we can negotiate.
Well, let me go back toJonathan for just a second here,
(24:36):
because I know that you, likemost people in your position,
are very modest about this, butI do want to say that you, just
like two days, three days ago,had a very significant award
that was well deserved from isit caterer?
Is that correct, and I'm not onthat to get from any hospital.
(25:00):
Oh, that's right.
I read it on caterer, sorry,yes, okay.
Jonathan Raggett (25:03):
Absolutely.
Yeah, the star ratings out andthe rosette smoke.
Robin Cline (25:08):
Yes, yes, exactly, and you had a lifetime
achievement award, which youdon't see hardly enough old
enough to have anything that'sconsidered lifetime, but
hopefully there'll be anotheryou know number of years to
carry on with this one.
Jonathan Raggett (25:23):
Maybe I can win it again in 20 years time.
Robin Cline (25:25):
right, right, there you go Be a repeat multi, but I
did want to just publicize acongratulations about that
because that is a hugeachievement and I think anytime
you get something like that,that is, you know, obviously
your peers and people areindustry wide have recognized
you for the work you're doingand well, thank you.
Jonathan Raggett (25:47):
But yeah, if you're all right, I was.
I was truly delighted andhumbled to win your award.
I do want to caveat that withsaying that certainly in the
last 25 years, the team andpeople I've worked with, and the
ownership I've alreadymentioned, will be hugely
supportive for this, and I alsothink that hotels are a
wonderful business.
That's that many of my friendsout there are Italian and whilst
(26:11):
we are competing and of coursehe was a bit out of each house I
think he's a business, likemany that are, so we'll share
ideas and we'll welcome you tosee what's going on.
I know that you know there's areal sequence to our business,
so clearly we don't need toremember the names of our key
accounts, but we do share bestpractices or what we're doing
(26:33):
right, and so you know he wasvery nice to have some very nice
words from many of them for theawards.
So it's great.
I think, like all things that Ialready do mean this he's been
a great, nice and great next day, but you move all quickly and
that you keep relevance and thatyou make sure that you do your
(26:54):
very best from the people in thehotels, but that makes you feel
for recognizing.
Robin Cline (26:58):
No, no, absolutely.
And you know, while we're kindof on that note, I think that
something that I feel like setsyou all apart are.
There are two things that Inoticed.
Well, actually three things.
I'll say quickly that I reallynoticed when I was there how
everybody in the hotels workwell together, they're fine and
(27:19):
respectful to one another, andthat you don't have that feeling
of there being this likehierarchy there's, you know, to
go through the halls, you knowit's such a family feeling among
you, and I even and hesitate tosay employees, even though they
are, because it just doesn'tfeel that way.
So it's a lovely feeling.
The other thing is is you allhave a very strong commitment to
(27:41):
sustainability, which we'll getinto here in just a second.
And also in the hotels atLondon, I noticed the commitment
to the historical integrity ofthese buildings, and I know that
some of that is, you know,mandated, but I also felt like
you all take that a step beyondand go over and above to really
(28:03):
maintain, like I say, thehistorical integrity.
When maybe you could get awaywith making some changes, I feel
like you've chosen not to.
Is that correct?
Victoria Tollman (28:15):
I think that was also very much the vision of
my father that he there was a.
You know, when the group wasgetting bigger, he would say I
don't want you branding this asa red carnation.
This hotel meets to stand onits own and one of the suit does
not fit all in red carnation.
So we've tried to balance wherenow the red carnation, the
(28:38):
lineings being recognized as acollection of hotels, but where
each hotel shines in its ownright is its own family and then
part of a bigger family.
But I think we've, we've beenso lucky that our teams do have
this complicity, solidarity,support each other.
(28:59):
I think it comes from differentreasons from our managers, from
Jonathan, from my family, fromour PNC department, the training
, the things that matter to us.
So I think it's a combinationof things and that's also the
hotel's heritage we have torespect the bones and so that
(29:20):
helps define the style and verymuch the personality of each
hotel.
And then on the sustainableside, I'm sure Jonathan, who's
one of our sustainable championsin TTC, where we have the Tread
Right Foundation, and it's soimportant to us to do what's
(29:43):
right For the environment, yes,for the communities and, just as
a human being, like what is ourresponsibility in the business?
And then the person, me.
So it's a very important pillarand I think we've done a lot of
things and continue to striveto do more things, and Jonathan,
(30:04):
who's absolutely passionateabout this, I'm sure will be
delighted to share more I could,but I mean, I think he will be
able to share other things too.
Robin Cline (30:13):
Yeah, why don't you just share a little bit more
about that, jonathan?
Because I think that, eventhough it's kind of a buzzword
these days to be sustainable andall that, it's more than paper
straws and plastic bottles.
All the plastic bottles aboutmake me insane.
So talk a little more like ahotel as a whole.
How do you go about looking atthat and making the footprint
(30:37):
less?
Jonathan Raggett (30:38):
while still providing.
There's no silver bullets inthis Robin.
It is a journey In any businessthat's going on.
This journey needs tounderstand what they are doing.
Yeah, and there's a lot ofgreen watch going out there
where I'm saying we're doing it,but I think they're going to be
in trouble with years goingforwards because what they're
(30:59):
saying they're going to be trueinfluence and people are stupid
and they do want to know what'sgoing on.
So, again, very lucky.
My entire show tells us.
We're owned by the travelcorporation which again, is part
of the Victoria Tolman's familyand it's directed from a
fantastic way to support us.
(31:20):
So we have some of these bigtravel matters and experiences
where, again, we invite gueststo come and stay with us and for
them to get back to thecommunities should they wish to.
And we find more and more todayif we're looking to come and
enjoy experiences.
We've had very few people.
(31:41):
Now I'm allergic.
When you're just coming for abed and a dining experience and
a spa, I mean that's all part ofit.
That's taking the risk Right,playing out.
People want to enjoy and see andjust feel.
You know they're givingsomething back, because the
world we live in today obviouslyhas the them and the don't have
it.
It's just trying to bring itslightly more together.
(32:03):
So we work on, I think, a lotof parents today.
They want their children tokind of understand as well that
young children are on.
Talking to young children, thosepeople that live in towns and
cities where you can know wherefruits and vegetables even come
from, because they go tosupermarket and that's where it
is We'll take you, how do you doit?
So one of the experiences we doin the area is we take the only
(32:26):
children and parents with theirshare to a place called Borough
Market here in London where allsorts of juices local and it's
that again it's people coming tosell what they have reduced.
Yeah, yeah, it's all very localand the chef would explain to
the family about where it's comefrom, what's needed, how we
(32:47):
have to buy things, how thewaste product can be used, take
it back to the hotel and whatwe'll put with those ingredients
.
Robin Cline (32:54):
That's my splash, I love to do this.
Jonathan Raggett (32:57):
Three, six, so that's not.
I went with the chef.
Actually he was like I'm notsurprised, I'm just a seven year
old child, a bright seven yearold child.
He's like asking all thesegreat, great questions.
And I had no idea that potatoeswere in the grouse Right, and
(33:17):
we had.
We had a whole lecture of these.
We very proudly put those ontoour website and find more and
more products Now, throughoutall of that, around our 19,.
Probably just the way we have.
But that's one side of thingswe're doing.
And then the more obvious oneis we've been now for several
years managing our waste,because you don't know what look
(33:37):
thrown away until you measureit.
And so we measure everythingthat we throw away.
And then, more importantly, wesee what we're throwing away
these things, our cameras andthen we adjust what we buy.
So we used to buy far too muchbakery, rather too much bread,
so we've adjusted what we buynow so that there is less waste.
(33:59):
I'm saying they'll be somewasted, so we're affected out
through waste to get exactly theright things.
There are so many parts of theworld that have an update, so
now hotels need to be generous,but you have to be able to do
what they do.
We don't have any single useplastic in our hotels anymore.
We work really hard on that.
The only thing we haven'tovercome yet is the suppliers
(34:20):
still bring things to us and acolor of plastic.
We will kick back once we comethrough this.
It's, you know, everyone'shaving their challenges in the
world right now in terms offinding people to do this that
Now we'll kick back on it.
We won't work with people thathave that the same as us.
So the whole string of thingsand that's just the final thing
(34:41):
to say on this.
You said, keep it short.
The success of this isn't justmyself and Vicky Tolman
ownership being keen on this.
This is about bringing peoplethrough.
So we have a really strongcommunity that will work enough
of a towels to ensure that atthe rather than town balls tea
parties we have, we're making ita subject matter.
(35:02):
We have a quarterly staffnewsletters.
We send out a guest.
It's always a big feature ofwhat we're doing.
So now we're encouraging peopleto contribute, we're
encouraging people to askquestions and we're showing the
importance of it to us and we'remaking it one of the
cornerstones of what we do theimportance of where we are,
which makes it because anythingworks in life and it's
(35:23):
sustainable.
He's absolutely right.
If we just sort of grow alittle wonder there and pretend
we're getting it, you reallyneed to get that.
Robin Cline (35:30):
I agree 100% and you know it's interesting.
I am noticing in my clientsthat that is something that has
become more of a conversationand they want to know who is.
You know who are making theseefforts and who aren't, and I
love that.
And I also love that.
Who knows how many buddingJamie Oliver's you all are
(35:52):
getting going there by doingthis program.
This is like fabulous.
So, yeah, yeah.
So, vicki, you wanted to saysomething, yeah.
Victoria Tollman (36:00):
I also wanted to say how inspired we are by so
many of the young members ofour team who it's it's so
important to them, and everysingle employee, in recognition,
gets to paid volunteer days ayear so they can use those days
to support a charity theybelieve in.
To be in a release to do so.
(36:23):
I think we we try and walk thetalk.
You know there's been so muchtalk about sustainability and,
as Jonathan mentioned, the maketravel matter, experiences that
our guests can have, but I thinkit's also the impact on the
community around us.
So helping smaller suppliers,yeah, I'd love to share another
(36:46):
story and initiative that Ithink is quite special.
It's the Auschwitz, which ourwilderness retreat in the
Seedburg mountains.
It's just outside Cape Town, orthree hours from Cape Town, and
they have Cape Mountainleopards and around the property
there's quite a lot of sheepfarmers and these Cape Mountain
(37:08):
leopards.
They very elusive.
I can't say that guests get tosee them or even aware of them.
They would come and attack thesheep, the sheep farmers, and so
the sheep would be all other.
The farmers would always killthe leopards if they found them.
So once again, my father thoughthow could we prevent this
happening and how can we helpthe farmers?
(37:29):
So we started a project withAnatolian sheep dogs and we
brought over sheep dogs and gavethem to the farmers and the
leopards are very scared of thesheep dogs.
So it's been such a wonderfulproject and I think there's been
one leopard that's been shotsince then.
I think they have over 15 dogsnow at different farms.
(37:52):
Guests can go and speak to thefarmers.
These they're not very friendlydogs.
They live amongst the sheep sothey can't really interact with
the guests, but farmers do.
So it's kind of such a nicetrail, so to speak, and knowing
that we're doing good and Ithink it's.
Everyone in hospitality or thetravel business today has a
(38:15):
certain responsibility, as muchas they can to make a difference
or to raise the awareness oftheir clients or their guests or
their teams.
So we just take it veryseriously and do the best we can
with them.
Robin Cline (38:35):
Like you said, it's walk the talk and it obviously
is what you all are doing on allfronts, and the thing that I'm
hearing in all of that, too, isthat what's happening here is,
as you're doing, things likehelping the community with
providing the guard dogs, thesheep dogs for them and also the
training that your employeesare getting in the days that
(38:56):
they get, they're going to betaking these practices home to
their families, and then that'sgoing to spread.
They're going to their children, are going to learn these
things and the new, youngergeneration that's coming in is
going to learn these things, andthen that starts to flow
outward, and that's really theonly way any of us are going to
be able to make any of thesechanges.
(39:17):
I mean, we can legislate all wewant, but unless we teach
people why these things areimportant and help them to
understand that, that's notgoing to make a difference.
I don't like it.
Victoria Tollman (39:29):
It's so true, it's exactly that.
Yeah, yeah so oh my gosh.
Robin Cline (39:34):
Well, I could just talk all day to both of you
about all this.
I think, though, it's probablya good time and a good place to
end our conversation, but I wantto thank you both so much, and
just know that I'm a big fan,love being able to have people
come be your guests, becausethey're always so well cared for
(39:55):
and everyone goes above andbeyond, so I feel very, very
fortunate to have learned aboutyour properties and to be able
to support them, and for you allto help take care of my very
special clients.
Victoria Tollman (40:12):
Thank you.
Thank you for giving us theopportunity, and the one thing I
can proudly say is we will doour very best to take care of
your clients, and it's all aboutthe relationship.
So thank you for allowing usthe opportunity to speak with
you today?
Robin Cline (40:30):
Absolutely yes, thank you and thank you,
jonathan.
I appreciate you taking thetime because I know you are a
busy man.
Jonathan Raggett (40:37):
I'm going to tell it to all of it it's we do
these things and it's alwaysnice when the person is as
lonely as you just speak to you.
So we genuinely thank you foryour time and your friendship to
both us and Rick on our nation.
Those are really well,absolutely.
Robin Cline (40:53):
Like you just said, we all know, in this business
it's all about relationshipsbecause and it's all about the
passion we have for thisbusiness, because we wouldn't do
it otherwise.
That wraps up today's episodeof the Intrepid Traveler.
Thank you for tuning in andthank you to today's guests for
joining me.
I'll be back again in two weekswith another exciting episode
(41:15):
featuring another guest with astory that is sure to pique your
interest.
Please subscribe to theIntrepid Traveler on your
favorite listening channel andgive us a review.
Once again, today's episode hasbeen brought to you by Clining
Co Travel Consulting, a luxuryadventure and expedition travel
planning company specializing inun-googleable experiences.
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