April 17, 2025 • 39 mins
Cam Lawson shares his journey from high school sports star to landscaping, moving to Nashville, working in nonprofits, and ultimately achieving his PhD in Strategic Communication with a focus on social media's impact. Cam reflects on the importance of presence and intentionality as a father, balancing work and personal life, and the value of maintaining curiosity and empathy in a digitally polarized world. He also offers actionable advice for fathers on how to incorporate physical activity and personal development into their lives while being active and present with their families.
Cam Lawson - LinkedIn
00:00 Introduction and Catching Up
00:23 Landscaping Memories and Reflections
02:23 Career Journey and Transitions
06:20 Family Life and Parenting
07:13 Diving into Social Media Research
17:31 Embracing Cultural Differences
17:52 The Power of Curiosity in Conversations
19:54 The Impact of One-on-One Interactions
20:35 Modeling Behavior for Children
21:32 Challenges and Rewards of Remote Work
28:18 Balancing Personal Health and Fatherhood
36:22 The Importance of Community and Support
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
video1137340318 (00:00):
At the end of the day, I think being present
(00:02):
with your kids, like my parentsdid a great job of this.
I will never forget my mommissed my senior year of high
school.
I had a baseball game, Uhhuh,and that was the first game she
ever missed.
Oh, wow.
And she cried.
Wow.
And that was like meaningful tome because it was, it meant that
much that they were there.
You know what I mean?
Yeah.
And so, and she made sure mygrandpa was there.
(00:23):
So like there was someone in myfamily that there, um, but that.
Became a core part for me to,like, when I had the opportunity
to go remote, like I reserve,you know, 3 34 o'clock to like
seven o'clock.
That's like family time.
I wanna be present with him, gooutside, play with him, you
know, interact, play, andsometimes I am just beat at the
(00:45):
end of the day.
Yeah.
And it's not to say sometimes wedo just sit on the couch.
Yeah.
We just veg.
Yeah.
But that presence, right.
Of being able to, hey, you know,I think later this year we're
gonna, they're gonna go on atrip with me, which I used to go
on trips with my dad on businesstrips, but that, like, I want
him to feel that I'm there.
(01:42):
Cam Lawson in the studio todaybuddy.
How are you doing today?
I'm doing so good, man.
Thank you for having me.
Yeah, it's been a long time.
Cam, we, we have gone back, uh,many years.
High school days.
Yes.
In fact, I can recall, um, youbeing the, the star goalie.
Oh, okay.
Um, so I think this is highschool.
But, uh, anyway, thanks so muchfor joining us at today.
(02:03):
Um, so.
I know that you've had sort of afun, similar, in a way journey
with some previous jobs.
Um, I did landscaping.
You've done landscaping.
In fact, we were joking.
I don't know if it'll, it'llreach the daylight on what we
were saying, but some funstories about, uh, just doing,
doing tree work and stuff.
(02:24):
Uh, are you, have you, do youstill enjoy landscaping?
What's the status there?
Yeah.
No, it's, it's, I, I do okay.
And I, every once in a while Ienvy.
Somebody just sitting on a mowerwith their headphones in just
making grass look awesome.
And then being able to turnright around and see the work.
Yes.
That was done.
Yes.
(02:44):
Yes.
And so, um, sitting riding lawnmowers, right?
The one that, that's right.
Absolutely.
You got the music, you forget apush mower on the side of a
mountain that Yes, I was, uh, Iwas.
Telling.
Before we were rocking in, I wasup at the cliffs and we used to
work up there, did a lot of workin a high end residential.
And, um, it was funny as I wasgoing in, I was telling the guy
(03:06):
that I was eating with a storywhere we were working and I, I,
I remember it was a semi-truckof mulch that came in and I will
never forget that watching thatsemi-truck go up.
And just the mulch like justkept falling down and it was
like, please be done.
And then it pulled off and itwas just this mountain of mulch.
(03:28):
And that was the moment when Irealized maybe million keeping
is bad for me.
Uh, but it's.
Every once in a while I do, Itinker around the house.
Yeah.
You know, make it look good.
Yeah.
But, um, we're gonna get into,expert subject matter of what
you've recently, um, completedin your, did you get your PhD?
Is that right?
Yeah.
And um, that's gonna be aboutsocial media, Facebook comment
(03:50):
section specific.
So.
Um, listeners will definitelyenjoy that because actually I
think, I don't think I've had aexpert subject matter, um, on
the show yet.
So this is great.
Oh man, you're number one, man.
I don't know about that.
So that's, that's exciting.
So I know you spent a lot oftime into that.
Um, before we go there, um, giveus the high li the high level,
(04:10):
um, career journey.
Yeah.
Sort of, and we know thelandscaping, but what's been the
la last couple?
Um.
Jobs or job And, uh, where arewe at today?
Yeah, so landscaping kind ofgoes a little bit into it.
Um, so right out of, um, collegeactually worked alongside Kenny.
Um, and so we did landscapingand then I had moved up to
(04:30):
Nashville, Tennessee.
Um, and so did a little bit ofthe music thing.
I just needed to get out ofGreenville.
Mm-hmm.
Was born and raised here.
I needed to spread my wings andfly.
Yes.
And um.
Up there.
It was great.
Super fun.
Glad I did that.
Made some really dumb decisionsand flew right on back to
Greenville and came into astructured environment, which
was good for me.
Um, but during that time,started working in actually
(04:53):
nonprofit.
So worked from nonprofit calledMiracle Hill.
Um, I was in therapy at the timeactually, and was working at
Miracle Hill.
Really cool moment in my life.
Yeah.
Um, much needed and don't make aton of money in nonprofit and so
had two jobs, so I was alsoworking at the Y oh.
During that time, um, a coupleof the leaders took me under
their wing and said, Hey, you'vegot some potential.
(05:15):
And I went through collegethinking I wanted to be a
pastor.
Yeah.
I was dead set on that ready togo.
Yeah.
I think even at the time that wewere working together, I think I
was getting my MDiv.
Yeah.
Okay.
Um, and so then throughout thatI had somebody challenge me.
They were like, Hey, you canstill have an impact in people's
lives.
Not necessarily being in apastoral ministry.
Mm-hmm.
He said, in fact, you'llprobably have more of an impact
(05:37):
because oftentimes you'll getthe best of people in the
church.
He said, you're gonna be able tomeet people where you're at in
the business world.
Mm-hmm.
Mental shift for me.
Yeah.
That did not happen overnight.
It was a lot of, you know, justam I leaving my Colleen kinda
thing, right?
Right.
And so, but felt, hey, ifthere's something here, you
(05:57):
know, what does this look like?
And so the CEO of the YMCAGreenville said, Hey, you should
get an MBA.
All right, cool.
Let me do that.
And so then ended uptransitioning off.
They had done, they kind of madesome positional cuts and so
ended up transitioning off the Yand needed a job.
So I knew a guy that I worked atchurch.
I was like, I'd done landscapingbefore.
(06:17):
And so that's how I ended upgetting to the another landscape
company.
Okay.
And started out as just a crewguy.
Yeah.
Just needed to pay the bills.
I was like, this is a summerthing.
That's it.
Yep.
I'm doing it.
Yep.
And then worked my way all theway up five years later, all the
way up to the senior leadershipteam, head of marketing.
Okay.
And so during that time weimplemented EOS, which is the
Entrepreneur Operating System.
(06:39):
It's just a framework for how todo business.
Yes.
We hired a coach that came in.
He came in, we did that, and heintroduced us to a platform
called 90.
Okay.
And so.
Went through that wholeimplementation in two years.
Started to realize finally,after looking at the mountain of
mulch, many times I was like, Idon't know if landscape is a
long-term plan for me.
Got it.
And so transitioned off, workedfor an agency for a little
(07:01):
while, and then ended up havingto transition off.
They just made a cuts, a lot ofreduction in force for the
agency and ended up needinganother job.
Mm-hmm.
And so I had been a fan of 90,the tool that we had used Yeah.
For a long time.
And so I just happened to reachout to the CEO on LinkedIn and
just said, Hey.
I have been an evangelist foryou.
I brought it to many companies,yes.
Would love an opportunity towork here.
(07:22):
And he said, this is awesome.
Here's who you need to talk to,and they hired me.
Wow.
So was that, that's how I got to90.
So that was, let's see, would'vebeen late 2022, early 2023.
Okay, cool.
So you've been there since?
Yeah.
Okay.
So.
And what's your role in 90 rightnow?
So I work in strategicpartnerships.
Okay.
So we have our end consumers,which are typically small
businesses, typically CEOs,leadership teams, and then
(07:44):
additional teams as they go downand roll out to the rest of the
organization.
But that's kind of our primaryaudience.
And then we also have a channel,which are business coaches.
So business coaches that come inand work with leadership teams
on how to implement a specificsystem.
Yes, I work in building that,that shape.
Okay, dude, that's great.
Yeah.
Now, um, shifting into thefamily life.
(08:04):
Yeah.
Uh, wife, kids, what's thestatus there?
Yeah.
So got a wife.
Awesome.
Okay.
Her name's Olivia.
She's a teacher.
Okay.
She is first grade.
Okay.
Do not know how she does thatall day.
Okay.
I, uh, God bless all theteachers out there.
Yes, that's right.
They should give more money.
Um, no.
And then we also have a4-year-old.
Okay.
So he just turned four.
(08:25):
Okay.
Uh, the day of this recording,it was last week, so, okay.
Awesome man.
We got, um, a 3-year-old and8-year-old.
And the fours, um, are yousleeping yet?
Are is it?
Yes.
Okay.
That's the wind.
Yeah, absolutely.
He was a, he has been an awesomesleeper, but it is, my mom
always jokes with me.
She said You were 12 hours on,12 hours off.
(08:46):
And those 12 hours on we're onvery on.
And I was like, got it.
I understand that now.
Ah, I have a son.
Yes.
Yes.
Um, okay.
So I wanna go into the, theFacebook stuff Yeah.
Because you didn't reallymention that along that career
journey.
Yeah.
So I know you were still workingon that.
Right.
Give the audience, um, why didyou, why was, um, tell us what
(09:07):
it is that you, that you are.
I.
You studied?
Yeah.
And then why that?
Yeah, that's a good question.
So the PhD was around 2020, so Iwas actually still in
landscaping at that time.
Okay.
So my dad has his PhD and Idon't know, you knew me in high
school.
I was not the, I was not a starstudent.
(09:29):
I, uh, I, I love the athleticsand just being a goofball.
And so school just.
It was a thing, right?
Yeah, yeah.
Just make sure I was good enoughto play.
Right.
And then really, I think once Istarted, like it was tail end of
my college career started to geta little more serious.
I think it was because I startedto study things that were
specific to my degree.
(09:50):
Right?
Yeah.
It was like I.
Not just gen ed classes, it waslike, oh, learning is actually
fun when you learn about thingsthat you wanna learn about.
Right, right.
And um, and so that's what, thenthe MBA did very well in that
program.
And then in 2020 I just got thisitch, like I finished the MBA
about 2018 or so.
Okay.
And then in 2020 felt this itchto like.
(10:11):
I continue to like, just levelmyself up.
Yeah.
And differentiate myself.
And so the only thing left was aPhD.
So I was like, yeah, why not?
Okay.
And, uh, and so the degree is ina, uh, it's strategic
communication.
So the long-term plan for me wasalways to get into like
consulting or coaching.
I was just, I fell in love withthat.
And so I felt that this wouldhelp give a little bit of
(10:32):
credibility behind my name.
'cause I'm 32.
I'm not, I mean, I'm not.
Getting some gray hairs.
Right.
Right.
But I, you know, I, I, I stillhave life to live.
Yeah.
And so it was like, okay, wellmaybe I can front load a little
bit of academic credibilitymm-hmm.
To maybe not necessarily speedthat along, but just give myself
a little bit more of afoundation, if you will.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So that's really what it wasthen.
(10:53):
And then for the PhD, I had tobasically decide what I wanna
focus on with the sky's thelimit on that.
Right.
I mean, do whatever you want.
Right.
I mean, there's some of thedissertations you read, it's
like.
Right.
That's a thing.
Is that even right?
And so I like to be relevant andso I decided to do Facebook and
it's kind of influenced.
So I really, it started withthis idea of social media, which
(11:15):
I love social media.
Um, I kind of grew up with it.
I'm that millennial or I meansimilar age.
We grew up with that.
We were know enough to where wecan remember life before that,
but also grew up with it, whichis a really unique position for
people our age because.
It, it's like a bridge betweenthe ones that knew life before
(11:35):
and then the ones that don'tknow life without.
Right.
Which is a unique place for us.
And so I think that's probably alittle bit of my interest in it.
Mm-hmm.
But I've always been fascinatedwith the role social media plays
in society.
Mm-hmm.
You know, I think with the last,you know, political elections
and a lot of just stuff going onin the world, like, it just
makes for an interesting topic.
(11:55):
Mm-hmm.
And so I wanted to startunderstanding, okay.
Is.
Somehow social media impactingthat in some form or fashion.
Mm-hmm.
Most people would say yes.
Yeah.
It's kind of hard to argue that.
Yeah.
And then I started to get alittle bit narrowed down'cause
my dad gave me some wonderfuladvice that said, Hey, you just
need to finish yourdissertation.
You don't need to solve worldproblems.
(12:16):
Yeah.
And so then it started to narrowit down.
Okay, let's narrow it down to.
Facebook, one individualplatform.
Let's talk about the commentsections of how they influence,
you know, the experience youhave.
Yeah.
So when you go through and reada comment section, there's an
algorithm that's feeding youinformation where you might see
a certain comment.
I may see a different one.
So it's a different experience,and so then it starts to go in
(12:38):
what's most relevant.
Mm-hmm.
And so that then leads toengagement, which then I started
to find.
Okay, there's probably somecorrelations into.
Hey, polarizing uncivil,dramatic content, emotional
content.
Mm-hmm.
It's probably ranked prettyhigh, therefore it's putting it
at the top, which then justfeeds it.
(12:58):
Mm-hmm.
So it becomes a cycle.
Mm-hmm.
So that's what I dove into inmy, my research to figure out,
okay, is there a there therewith that?
Is it influencing us and how isit influencing us?
Yeah.
So the common section, um,social media being sort of like
very relevant to today's, and Itotally agree.
The, the knowledge of what itwas like before.
Mm-hmm.
And after it is a uniqueposition.
(13:19):
Yeah.
And as dads, I mean, we'reseeing screens right.
Every turn.
I mean, I know you got a4-year-old.
Yeah.
But it, it is a constant, atleast in our family, it is a, a
topic of like how many Screentime are we having?
And also like, I don't like itwhen he sees me on my phone.
Like there's a definitely senseof, like, I think I've heard
someone joke jokingly, likethey're hiding phones behind
(13:41):
books.
Like, so that the kids don'teven like see like Yeah.
You know, the, the, the parentdoing it or you're kind of
hiding it.
Yeah.
Like, you know, and the kidwalks in or whatever.
So, um, so I definitely thinkthat's a, that's a major issue
today with a lot of dads islike, how are we doing screens
as well as social media?
Yeah.
Um.
So what were, I guess, some ofthe discoveries made from what
(14:05):
you found that maybe could be anapplication?
I mean, awareness I think isnumber key.
Is number one of just like,yeah, this obviously, like you
mentioned uncivil.
Yeah.
Um.
Just, you know, the, the hatespeech and all that stuff that
everyone kinda looks at, and ifyou kind of fall into it, it, it
can be a very slippery slope oflike, what are you trying to
gain here?
Yeah.
But, um, what were some maybethings that you discover, number
(14:27):
one, and things that we couldmaybe apply as dads that would
help us be better dads?
Yeah.
It's a, I, it's a greatquestion.
Um, I would say.
One of the key findings, um,were really, you know, everybody
thinks like the troll, right?
It's the troll that's just the,like the social media troll.
Right, right, right.
Yeah, right.
And um, and there's a lot oftruth to that, right?
(14:48):
But what I found was there areactually different.
Call it like versions of that.
Mm-hmm.
So there's ones that are, I callit the passionate partisan.
So those that are just liketheir belief system, their
ideology, they're just gonna goout of their way to like promote
that, share that.
And you've totally see that,right?
I believe this.
(15:09):
I will die on this note.
And like we're coming out of apresidential like Right.
It's obviously like that's ofthat, that's amplified during
that time.
Yes, yes, yes.
So that was one.
And then, um, the cynical joker.
Was another one.
Okay.
Um, which was more, it wasinteresting.
It was, it was a version of likeuncivil communication that was
very snarky.
Okay.
Like very pointed, almost anintellectual level.
(15:30):
Okay.
Which is different than just a,this passionate partisan, it's
like this ideology.
Yeah.
It was a lot more like.
Almost just rude.
Like, like undercut little.
Yeah.
Like that kind of thing.
Jabbing punch.
And then the last personalitywas the agitator, which is your
traditional troll.
They're just trying to like eggpeople on.
Okay.
You know, like kind of ash, likeeach one of those is different.
Okay.
Right.
They're like a different type ofpersonality.
(15:52):
And we group them all togetherinto just this troll thing.
Okay.
But I think that does this adisservice because you don't
need to, you're not gonnainteract with somebody that's
just trying to egg somebody onversus somebody that has an
ideological belief that theyreally hold onto.
Mm-hmm.
And they're just.
Acting like very brashly withthat like, so I think from that
standpoint, that was probably mybiggest like gift to the
academic community, if you will,because now people can have an
(16:15):
understanding, whether you're asocial media manager or really
just trying to understand it.
Mm-hmm.
You can see these things.
So I think the biggest thing forme that was probably a takeaway
mm-hmm.
Was the awareness.
Just kind of understanding thatthis is influencing me, you
know, this platform is designed.
(16:35):
To get me.
And it's almost like, you know,the gladiators like going, we
wanna like see this drama.
Yes.
Like that's what social media isnow.
'cause like I find myselfgetting sucked into these
comment sections.
It's like, yeah, oh man, I knowthis is gonna be a good comment
section.
You go in and it does notdisappoint.
And so, and you know, thenyou're sitting there for 30
minutes.
Right.
And you're reading just the scumof the earth going at it.
(16:56):
It's like, I dunno if that'sreally healthy.
And so I think that's a bigthing for me is understanding.
Okay.
If I'm getting looped into this,I wanna make sure that I'm in
control with my brain, that Iunderstand.
Mm-hmm.
I can look through this and if Ihave, what's my motivation for
going to this?
Am I going to be entertained?
Mm-hmm.
Am I going to whatever I'mtrying to find in there?
Yeah.
Right.
(17:17):
And so I think that's a bigthing.
And then understanding that it'srewarding that engagement.
Okay.
So the, it's, it's an echochamber, right?
What it's gonna do is it's gonnagive you viewpoints that you
agree with, and then it's gonnagive you the polar opposite of
that.
Okay.
Life has lived in between.
Yeah.
Like we probably disagree onsome things, but we're friends
(17:38):
and we get along.
We have an awesome conversation.
Yeah.
It's the same thing with peoplethat you may not know, and I
think what it does is it makesus think that we're all crazy
and everyone is just this,you're rather on this side, this
side.
It's like, no, that's, that's Ithink the worst thing that found
just through comment sections,which then I think tends to
bleed over into real life.
(17:59):
That's, yeah.
And so I think that was probablythe biggest thing for me.
Okay, so as, as dads, um, theawareness is key.
Um, you know, one of the thingsI was thinking of is, and I'm
glad you said it, like you gotthis, you know, behind the
screen, you're kinda safe.
You can say whatever you want,but then it does kind of
obviously translate to like,okay, now my mindset thinks this
person is this way.
If it's someone that you, youknow, go to church with or
(18:20):
something, and now I ratheridentify them or classify them
as a certain position and.
I just see divide happening, andof course there's probably some
attraction happening as well,but I think the divide is much
more, um, seen.
So, um, you know, I guess adviceto dads on this, on this front,
(18:40):
any, any type of application or,or.
Things that can be said, numberone, for ourselves, but also our
kids.
You know, it's, it's a, I feellike it's a very fine line
because, especially depending onthe age, like formative years,
right?
Mm-hmm.
Like, but I think there is alevel of, and this is the way
that I'm, I really am trying tolead my family.
I'm not, I don't think I'mperfect at this.
(19:00):
Mm-hmm.
And I mean, it's a 4-year-old isdifferent than like, when, you
know, is 15, right?
Like, it's just gonna bedifferent.
Right.
But at the same time, my parentsdid a really good job of
allowing me to travel with them.
Mm-hmm.
And go to other places and seeother cultures and understand
that there are other ways to dothings.
Hmm.
And being able to hold that,that maybe that's not how we do
(19:23):
it as a family, but we can stillrespect that.
Mm-hmm.
And then being able to holdthose things in almost a loose
way in our heads.
It's like, okay, that'sdifferent.
Doesn't mean it's bad, right?
And so I think as we go andencourage our kids to
understand, hey, you can differwith somebody, and then leading
with this curiosity, I thinkthat's lacking in American
(19:44):
culture, but I probably theworld.
Um, but this idea of, hey.
You really believe very stronglyabout that.
Tell me more on why you believethat.
That aspect, I think opens it upbecause then you start to
realize this person went throughso many experiences that then
influenced them to believe that.
(20:04):
And when you have thatunderstanding, I may still
disagree with you.
Sure.
But I have so much more respectfor you.
Instead of just writing themoff, like it's so easy to do in
a mm-hmm.
Facebook comment section.
Mm-hmm.
It's like, oh, you're wrong,blah, blah, blah.
It's so easy to do that.
Mm-hmm.
But when you're sitting acrossfrom somebody and asking them
and they're sharing theirexperiences, it makes a whole
lot more sense.
(20:24):
And I think that gives you moreempathy and curiosity to dig a
little bit.
So I think that's probably thebiggest thing that I would
encourage.
Dads as they lead their familyto lead with that curiosity.
Because if you open things up,nobody's ever gonna get upset at
somebody asking a genuinequestion.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I think when you, this is, thisis really good because by being
(20:45):
curious about someone else'sbeliefs, you're at least
allowing yourself to considerthat what they're saying is
right.
Yeah.
I'm not saying you were like,oh, because I asked, I have to
really believe what they'resaying, like you said.
But, um, how are we ever gonnachange ever our mindset unless
we are.
At least absorbing and listeningto other people.
Um, and unless, you know, wefeel like we're in a perfect
(21:08):
position, which I would hopethat no one thinks that way, um,
we're never gonna change either.
So I like that.
I would say the, I mean, I, I'vealways thought this even before
I did my dissertation work, but.
The, we tend to overestimate thepower of these.
You know, you go to aconference, you have a
(21:28):
conference high, you're superexcited, you got awesome
speaker, you're pumped up onsomething, or you go to a rally
and people are like, yes, let'sgo.
Right?
And then it dies off.
I think we overestimate thepower of that more group based
things and we underestimate thepower of one-on-one
conversations.
I think there is.
That is where the true healingof a society comes down to these
(21:50):
one-on-one conversations.
If more of us lead withcuriosity.
I think there's something to besaid.
There's a lot of power in thoseone-on-one conversations Yeah.
To change the world.
And I just, I fundamentallybelieve that with my soul all
about, go to a rally, believewhat you wanna believe, get
excited about it, but don'tneglect the one-on-one
conversations.
Yeah.
(22:11):
No, I, I love that in persontoo.
Yeah.
I feel like that's huge.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, neighbors.
Yeah.
Right.
Um, obviously.
You could go to church, uh, butyou know, the diner, you know,
wherever, restaurants, thewaiter, um, just the
interactions that we have, wehave such a unique influence,
um, in those per, uh,face-to-face conversations like
you're saying, that are outsideof the, you know, social media,
(22:32):
LinkedIn, whatever communities,um, that I think are crucial.
And as, especially when our kidsare younger, they're watching
us, we are able to model that.
Where you, what does my son seeme doing on the computer?
Well, I could be, you know,changing the world with, you
know, all these nice posts andwhatever, content creations.
But when he sees me talking to aneighbor or you know, the
contractor, whatever it is, he'sgetting so much more.
(22:55):
Right.
So, um, here, here, that's,that's great.
Yeah.
One of my questions I do likeasking is that, um.
The idea of like, what are mostdads missing today?
Like, what are, what's kind ofthe problem with that?
Maybe you've seen, um, but Ifeel like you're, you're kind of
in that, you've somewhat alreadyanswered it in regards to like
that lack of curiosity.
Anything you don't, you wanna godeeper there or add to that?
Yeah, I mean, I think thecuriosity is a huge part and I
(23:17):
mean, that's still somethingthat I'm learning.
It's so easy to.
Uh, there's a, an example, Imean, I, I had my son home, so I
work from home.
Yeah.
Which is, we can dive into thatif you want.
Just the pros and cons of that.
Yeah.
Um, but the, there was one timewhere I was kind of getting,
just finishing up something withwork, and then I came around the
corner and he had put a bunch ofstickers on the back of our
(23:39):
like, love, see, and like I feltthat emotion, like, dude, what
is, what were you thinking?
And then like.
He was like so excited to showme.
'cause like I saw it in hiseyes.
It was like his masterpiece, youknow?
Yes, yes.
And in that like, I'm proud ofthis and this is not me every
day, but I was pr like I wasable to take that emotion down
(24:00):
and then go in and like I.
Oh dude, that, that's reallycool.
Like here, let's, like, Ipivoted and had this like three
ring binder and I was like,look, let's decorate this.
You know, this is where we cankind of put on instead of the
couch and like redirect thatenergy.
Yes.
But I go with, it was acuriosity.
Like, instead of letting myemotions take over and like, run
with that, like, and like pushhim down mm-hmm.
(24:23):
For.
I mean, he was really proud oflike how he, you know, he
designed it right and like put'em together and like Right.
That would've like stifled hislittle creativity.
And so like, I'm so glad I hadthat moment where like, I
pivoted.
But I think the other thing is,is presence.
I see that, you know, there's alot of, especially in the C era,
I feel like it kind of forcedfamilies to be together.
(24:45):
Mm-hmm.
And which.
Hopefully that's a good thing.
Yeah.
Um, but there's a lot more oflike even the rise of remote and
hybrid work.
Yes.
At the end of the day, I thinkbeing present with your kids,
like my parents did a great jobof this.
I will never forget my mommissed my senior year of high
(25:05):
school.
I had a baseball game, Uhhuh,and that was the first game she
ever missed.
Oh, wow.
And she cried.
Wow.
And that was like meaningful tome because it was, it meant that
much that they were there.
You know what I mean?
Yeah.
And so, and she made sure mygrandpa was there.
So like there was someone in myfamily that there, um, but that.
Became a core part for me to,like, when I had the opportunity
(25:26):
to go remote, like I reserve,you know, 3 34 o'clock to like
seven o'clock.
That's like family time.
'cause my wife is a teacher.
Yeah.
She gets home, he Cooper goes toa daycare right near where she,
so they get home three 30 ish.
And so I wanna be present withhim, go outside, play with him,
you know, interact, play, andsometimes I am just beat at the
(25:47):
end of the day.
Yeah.
And it's not to say sometimes wedo just sit on the couch.
Yeah.
We just veg.
Yeah.
But that presence, right.
Of being able to, hey, you know,I think later this year we're
gonna, they're gonna go on atrip with me, which I used to go
on trips with my dad on businesstrips, but that, like, I want
him to feel that I'm there.
Yeah.
You know?
And that doesn't alwaysnecessarily mean.
(26:07):
Undivided attention because Ithink there is some, like
sometimes you do need to takesome time for you.
Yes.
But having that dedicated time,like I know four to seven I.
We're gonna be out playing,interacting with people.
Yeah.
And that's just a pivotalmoment.
So I think that's something thatI just wanna see.
I'm not that, I think dadsnowadays do a great job of that.
(26:28):
Yeah.
You know, and I think some of itcomes from the hybrid and remote
world.
Yeah.
But that presence is just a bigthing for me.
Yeah.
I, um, I, I've talked to theshow a little bit about what I
would call, well the book, um,the Intentional Father.
Mm.
I dunno if you've heard of thatbook.
Um, but they have theseclassifications of dad.
And one of them is the involveddad.
Yeah.
And the next one up is theintentional dad.
(26:50):
Mm.
So I always consider myself theinvolved dad.
Before I read this book, I waslike, yeah, I'm, you know,
making breakfast.
Yeah.
I'm, you know, throwing theball.
I'm, I'm, I'm with my kids.
But, um, sort of that likeeyeopening moment for me was,
there's a world where there'slike an intention and you've
talked about it in regards tolike, you're bringing them with
you on this family and, uh.
Um, even like reserving thattime four to seven.
(27:13):
Yeah.
Like there's intentionalitybehind this thing, um, where we
have a plan, you know, we have adirection we're trying to bring
them.
Um, versus just kinda like,well, which way's the wind
blowing today?
Okay, let's just kind of gothere.
So, um, you know, I feel likevested fathers, whatever we're,
we're putting in our minds forhow to level up business,
marriage, whatever.
(27:34):
I think there needs to be.
My, my passion is theintentionality to be like the
best dad.
How are we getting there?
Yeah.
And um, it doesn't just happen.
It doesn't just like, well I'm adad because I have a kid.
It's like, well, you're, yeah,that's, you know, I guess
technically right, but what is,what are you doing as a dad
that's leading?
So, um, I think that's, thatwould be my little soapbox of
(27:55):
what, what I'm passionate about.
Um, tell me, cam, I, I feel likethis is always sort of like
pulling back the curtain, butum.
You know, you only have a one,one kid.
He's four years old.
But tell me some hardships, ifyou don't mind, on just like,
okay, we had a career, sort ofpivots along the way.
Mm-hmm.
How long you been married now?
Yeah.
Coming up on, coming up on sevenyears.
Okay.
Seven years.
(28:16):
Um, and then you've been withthis recent company for like two
years now?
Yeah.
So one of that.
That topic of, I even hatesaying the word work-life
balance, but like the crossoverbehind, um, business and
fatherhood.
What are some things that youhas been a struggle that either
you're still facing today oryou've seen some victories
happen, you know, that theaudience can maybe relate with?
(28:36):
Yeah, man, I would say thebalancing the remote work.
So, and, and being a dad, solike.
You know, I'm getting off astrategic call, you know, and
then my commute home is a 32ndwalk down the stairs into World
(28:59):
War iii.
Right.
You know, and I think from amental shift standpoint, that's
so hard.
Mm-hmm.
You know, and so sometimes I'vestarted to like, okay, end that
call and just take like five.
To just sit and like, justdecompress a little bit.
Get out of that.
Like, I like it.
Boom, boom.
(29:19):
Yes.
Like you're like, goodbye.
And then you're like, like I goupstairs and help my wife right
there because is that motivationto like, you know, you hear him
downstairs and like going nutsand like, oh my gosh, let me get
like, you know, just give Oliviaa break and.
Sometimes you do need toprioritize, because then if I'm
just snapping out of a strategiccall, or maybe it went kind of
(29:40):
bad.
Yeah.
Or you know, and I'm not in thebest mood.
It's like give myself just asecond to like, it's good.
Breathe.
It's good.
And so that's been, I would say,an ongoing struggle.
Mm-hmm.
I think I'm starting to be alittle more aware of it.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Just understanding the value ofthat and the importance of that.
Mm-hmm.
Um, and then I think, you know,just the understanding.
Like how to take care of myselfpersonally.
(30:02):
It's so easy to like just startchecking things out.
Like, all right, I gotta get thelaundry done, gotta get folded,
gotta gotta go pick up, youknow, and all these things.
And then starting to prioritizelike my own health, mental,
spiritual, physical, like all ofthese things.
Mm-hmm.
And so figuring that in from aschedule standpoint of like,
(30:23):
okay, you know, it works reallywell, like.
They, you know, Olivia, they,she has to be into school at
seven 15 in the morning.
Mm-hmm.
You know, so she's leaving atlike six 30.
She teaches kind of a littleways away.
And so that gives me time in themorning to be able to go to the
gym.
Mm-hmm.
You know, be able to get someexercise or go walk or do
something like.
Mm-hmm.
So it's starting to prioritizethat a little bit more.
(30:44):
'cause it's so easy to get intojust let, letting life, I think
you, I mean it's intentionality.
Mm-hmm.
And I think from a fatherhoodstandpoint, absolutely.
But then I've also started tolike.
Hey, if I'm gonna go to the gym,you know, like Sunday afternoon,
like Coop and I have started togo swim.
Yeah.
He loves that.
Yes.
Getting in the pool.
So like inviting him in on thosethings.
Mm-hmm.
But then allowing him to kind oflike start to see that modeled a
(31:07):
little bit mm-hmm.
Has been really rewarding.
I used to think it was justlike, all right, that's my time.
Right.
But then I can start to, oncertain occasions, invite him on
things, which has been a lot offun too.
So, yeah.
No, I, I love this topic.
I, um, my son has these little,uh, physical therapy.
Exercises he has to do.
Yeah.
And what I've learned is I wouldgo to the gym and you, whether
it be a leg day or what, I'd betired.
(31:29):
But then he's like, Hey dad, youwanna do this exercise with me?
And it's like the last thing Iwanna do, it's like I just did
my legs and you're like doing,you know, these lunches and
everything.
I'm just like, it's reallyhurting.
Like I'm really in pain now.
But we're doing it together andit's, and it's now, I'm not even
doing it for me.
I'm just like.
He's seen me.
I, you know, I want him to seeme actually like, struggle.
Yeah.
Like, I want him to see me,like, push through it, because
(31:50):
I, that that's, that's a bigthing for us right now is like
that delayed gratificationversus immediate gratification
and these, you know, videogames, whatever, it's all just
like ping, ping, ping.
But what happens when you'retrying to like, you know, get
stronger?
Yeah.
Or get faster.
Like, it doesn't just happen.
You have to get it, you know,over and over.
So, um, love that.
Incorporating the kids even at ayounger age.
(32:10):
Um, and then you said just likeschedule, maybe go a little
deeper on.
Like the intentionality ofbettering our health.
'cause I, I, I had someone onthe show von Bethel, and he was
like, you can't help anyone elseuntil you've really helped
yourself.
Yeah.
And just sort of like, that's,forget how he said it, but it
was something like that.
So, um, so anything else therethat you, that you've seen as
like a, oh, this is somethingI've been lacking just from
(32:31):
being busy.
Yeah.
So I.
Yes.
To that.
I mean, you have to prioritizeyourself.
I mean, it, it goes a little bitcounterintuitive, right?
Than I think some culturalthings that maybe from an
upbringing standpoint orwhatever you're taught, it's
like others first, you know?
Right, right.
Um, but there's a lot of truthto it.
Like, if I don't take care of myhealth, right, I'm gonna die.
(32:53):
I'm gonna exist anymore.
Like, I can't help anybody atthat point.
Yeah.
And so being able to go in andprioritize yourself is crucial.
And so what I did was actually Ineed someone to yell at me to
like run.
Mm-hmm.
Or chase a ball Yeah.
To run.
And so hired a trainer.
Yeah.
Which was a great investmentYes.
(33:13):
For me to go in and havesomebody like, organize
something based on my goals andjust make me do things.
Yes.
Awesome.
I just know myself.
Yes.
I'm a very disciplined person.
Yeah.
When it comes to business and,and some things, but like with.
Sports and like physical stuff.
I am not gonna run if I don'thave it.
Right, right, right.
No, I love it.
(33:33):
Yeah.
I was a goalkeeper, you know, Idon't wanna run.
Um, and so, and then the otherthing was I actually hired a, a
growth coach.
Okay.
Which was interesting.
So, um, through, uh, Stacy,shout out Stacy Geisel.
Um, she's also, she's local toGreenville, um, but she's a
holistic health and like stresscoach.
Yeah.
And so what she's done is she'sreally helped me kind of just
(33:55):
design my life.
And that has been so helpful.
Cool.
Dude.
The, I had a session with herearlier this morning and we just
talked through all thesedifferent facets of my life, but
really just kind of mainstressors for me and just from
personal and professional, thathas been by far the best
investment I've ever made.
Awesome.
'cause it's helped me.
(34:17):
I kind of went into it thinkinglike it's just gonna like solve
some things for me, but likewhat it's does make me really
more introspective and likestarted to learn myself and my
tendencies.
And I think those are the waysthat you start to take care of
yourself and you don't havenecessarily go out and like hire
a personal trainer and you know,like, but having that
willingness to dig deep into,alright, what are some weak
(34:39):
spots in me?
What are some areas that I needto improve on?
And then starting to build, Ilove.
Again, I work for a companycalled 90, but I love the power
of 90 because there's so muchthat you can accomplish in 90
days when you start to buildyour world around a 90 day
world.
Mm-hmm.
You can start to go in and startto accomplish, you know, all
(35:00):
right, here's some key thingsthat I want to go after and
here's some, you know, KPIs.
Yeah.
You know, or tasks that I needto get done in these specific
times.
Like you can start to build outthat way.
So I.
Basically follow that path, allright, Hey, in this 90 day
period I wanna do these threethings and I'm gonna execute on
that.
Mm-hmm.
And I'm gonna start to reverseengineer what needs to happen on
(35:22):
a weekly basis for me to getthere.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
So it's just like, I'm running abusiness, but I'm running my
life.
So that's how I've started tokind of think through it that
way.
That's great.
I've, I've started that book the12 week year.
Yeah.
I don't, it's probably verysimilar to how you guys train
it.
Um.
And it's a different mindsetshift, you know,'cause there's
like the yearly goals and justthat idea though of, how are you
(35:42):
getting to an end goal?
90 is a great number.
And, um, dude, the, the, howlong have you had this trainer
or this um, this life coach kindof growth coach?
Uh, coming about a year.
Okay.
Yeah.
And you've just seen, like,since that started, like, yeah.
Wow.
For sure.
Yeah.
No, that's great.
I, I love that message mean inmarriage and fatherhood and my
(36:03):
personal Yes.
Just individual life.
Yeah.
My professional life, like,yeah.
Cam, thank you so much for yourtime today.
Absolutely.
You, you've dropped so much goodinsights.
Uh, you know, the thing aboutVested Fathers, this PO podcast,
my goal is I just wanna create aspace that dads, it's, it's not
a right or wrong.
This is what we're doing and howcan we grow together from it.
So, um, here's some of yourstruggles and some things you've
(36:23):
learned have been very helpfulfor me.
Uh, cam, if people wanted tokind of follow what you're up
to, give them some, give us away to track what you're doing.
And then any closeout, um, wordsof wisdom you'd wanna share?
No pressure.
Right.
Got the word.
And the church man.
Um, yeah, no, I mean, I think ifpeople wanna maybe connect, um,
(36:44):
I'm on LinkedIn, I'm all overLinkedIn.
Um, I strategically have limitedmy social media, um, just when
you dive into the scum ofFacebook makes you not
necessarily wanna be on thatvery much.
So that was just a personaldecision, just to like limit and
be present with my family justto limit some things.
But I'm on LinkedIn, um, ifpeople wanna get in touch with
me via about 90 that's fine.
(37:06):
Happy to talk about thatfatherhood.
I mean, whatever.
I'm an open book.
Yeah.
So, um, but you can search CamLawson.
You should find me.
I think it's like, I think myactual UR was like Cam Lawson
90.
Okay, cool.
So cool.
Um, and then, yeah, I mean, asfar as a closing word, um, what,
I mean, what comes to mind isthe power of this kind of
(37:29):
community.
I think being a.
Father can be very lonely.
Mm-hmm.
And by nature, men are verycompetitive and a lot of times
we want to push down because wewanna be the best.
And that has gotten us probablyfar in life.
But I think there's tremendousvalue in having these kinds of
(37:52):
conversations and having morecommunity.
I'm very fortunate to workalongside two other guys who are
also dads at 90.
We're all kinda the sameposition, and it's been funny
hearing some of the wives talk.
They're like, you guys like justthrow out, you know, just
compliments and like you aren'tafraid of that.
You're like secure in that, andit's like, mm-hmm.
(38:13):
Yeah.
That's the way it should be.
Yeah.
Like we should, if we see, youknow, Brandon, do something
awesome, I'm absolutely gonnatell him that.
Yeah.
'cause he needs to hear that.
Yeah.
Because I know he doesn't, he'sprobably not feeling it.
Yeah.
And so I think more of that inthe male community is just so
powerful because then it createsmore momentum.
(38:33):
Mm-hmm.
And I think goes to yourultimate vision.
So that's what I would say moreof.
More of this.
Cam, thank you so much.
Um, and for all the otherinvested dads out there, keep
going.
and invest wisely.
At the end of the day, I think being present
(00:02):
with your kids, like my parentsdid a great job of this.
I will never forget my mommissed my senior year of high
school.
I had a baseball game, Uhhuh,and that was the first game she
ever missed.
Oh, wow.
And she cried.
Wow.
And that was like meaningful tome because it was, it meant that
much that they were there.
You know what I mean?
Yeah.
And so, and she made sure mygrandpa was there.
(00:23):
So like there was someone in myfamily that there, um, but that.
Became a core part for me to,like, when I had the opportunity
to go remote, like I reserve,you know, 3 34 o'clock to like
seven o'clock.
That's like family time.
I wanna be present with him, gooutside, play with him, you
know, interact, play, andsometimes I am just beat at the
(00:45):
end of the day.
Yeah.
And it's not to say sometimes wedo just sit on the couch.
Yeah.
We just veg.
Yeah.
But that presence, right.
Of being able to, hey, you know,I think later this year we're
gonna, they're gonna go on atrip with me, which I used to go
on trips with my dad on businesstrips, but that, like, I want
him to feel that I'm there.
(01:42):
Cam Lawson in the studio todaybuddy.
How are you doing today?
I'm doing so good, man.
Thank you for having me.
Yeah, it's been a long time.
Cam, we, we have gone back, uh,many years.
High school days.
Yes.
In fact, I can recall, um, youbeing the, the star goalie.
Oh, okay.
Um, so I think this is highschool.
But, uh, anyway, thanks so muchfor joining us at today.
(02:03):
Um, so.
I know that you've had sort of afun, similar, in a way journey
with some previous jobs.
Um, I did landscaping.
You've done landscaping.
In fact, we were joking.
I don't know if it'll, it'llreach the daylight on what we
were saying, but some funstories about, uh, just doing,
doing tree work and stuff.
(02:24):
Uh, are you, have you, do youstill enjoy landscaping?
What's the status there?
Yeah.
No, it's, it's, I, I do okay.
And I, every once in a while Ienvy.
Somebody just sitting on a mowerwith their headphones in just
making grass look awesome.
And then being able to turnright around and see the work.
Yes.
That was done.
Yes.
(02:44):
Yes.
And so, um, sitting riding lawnmowers, right?
The one that, that's right.
Absolutely.
You got the music, you forget apush mower on the side of a
mountain that Yes, I was, uh, Iwas.
Telling.
Before we were rocking in, I wasup at the cliffs and we used to
work up there, did a lot of workin a high end residential.
And, um, it was funny as I wasgoing in, I was telling the guy
(03:06):
that I was eating with a storywhere we were working and I, I,
I remember it was a semi-truckof mulch that came in and I will
never forget that watching thatsemi-truck go up.
And just the mulch like justkept falling down and it was
like, please be done.
And then it pulled off and itwas just this mountain of mulch.
(03:28):
And that was the moment when Irealized maybe million keeping
is bad for me.
Uh, but it's.
Every once in a while I do, Itinker around the house.
Yeah.
You know, make it look good.
Yeah.
But, um, we're gonna get into,expert subject matter of what
you've recently, um, completedin your, did you get your PhD?
Is that right?
Yeah.
And um, that's gonna be aboutsocial media, Facebook comment
(03:50):
section specific.
So.
Um, listeners will definitelyenjoy that because actually I
think, I don't think I've had aexpert subject matter, um, on
the show yet.
So this is great.
Oh man, you're number one, man.
I don't know about that.
So that's, that's exciting.
So I know you spent a lot oftime into that.
Um, before we go there, um, giveus the high li the high level,
(04:10):
um, career journey.
Yeah.
Sort of, and we know thelandscaping, but what's been the
la last couple?
Um.
Jobs or job And, uh, where arewe at today?
Yeah, so landscaping kind ofgoes a little bit into it.
Um, so right out of, um, collegeactually worked alongside Kenny.
Um, and so we did landscapingand then I had moved up to
(04:30):
Nashville, Tennessee.
Um, and so did a little bit ofthe music thing.
I just needed to get out ofGreenville.
Mm-hmm.
Was born and raised here.
I needed to spread my wings andfly.
Yes.
And um.
Up there.
It was great.
Super fun.
Glad I did that.
Made some really dumb decisionsand flew right on back to
Greenville and came into astructured environment, which
was good for me.
Um, but during that time,started working in actually
(04:53):
nonprofit.
So worked from nonprofit calledMiracle Hill.
Um, I was in therapy at the timeactually, and was working at
Miracle Hill.
Really cool moment in my life.
Yeah.
Um, much needed and don't make aton of money in nonprofit and so
had two jobs, so I was alsoworking at the Y oh.
During that time, um, a coupleof the leaders took me under
their wing and said, Hey, you'vegot some potential.
(05:15):
And I went through collegethinking I wanted to be a
pastor.
Yeah.
I was dead set on that ready togo.
Yeah.
I think even at the time that wewere working together, I think I
was getting my MDiv.
Yeah.
Okay.
Um, and so then throughout thatI had somebody challenge me.
They were like, Hey, you canstill have an impact in people's
lives.
Not necessarily being in apastoral ministry.
Mm-hmm.
He said, in fact, you'llprobably have more of an impact
(05:37):
because oftentimes you'll getthe best of people in the
church.
He said, you're gonna be able tomeet people where you're at in
the business world.
Mm-hmm.
Mental shift for me.
Yeah.
That did not happen overnight.
It was a lot of, you know, justam I leaving my Colleen kinda
thing, right?
Right.
And so, but felt, hey, ifthere's something here, you
(05:57):
know, what does this look like?
And so the CEO of the YMCAGreenville said, Hey, you should
get an MBA.
All right, cool.
Let me do that.
And so then ended uptransitioning off.
They had done, they kind of madesome positional cuts and so
ended up transitioning off the Yand needed a job.
So I knew a guy that I worked atchurch.
I was like, I'd done landscapingbefore.
(06:17):
And so that's how I ended upgetting to the another landscape
company.
Okay.
And started out as just a crewguy.
Yeah.
Just needed to pay the bills.
I was like, this is a summerthing.
That's it.
Yep.
I'm doing it.
Yep.
And then worked my way all theway up five years later, all the
way up to the senior leadershipteam, head of marketing.
Okay.
And so during that time weimplemented EOS, which is the
Entrepreneur Operating System.
(06:39):
It's just a framework for how todo business.
Yes.
We hired a coach that came in.
He came in, we did that, and heintroduced us to a platform
called 90.
Okay.
And so.
Went through that wholeimplementation in two years.
Started to realize finally,after looking at the mountain of
mulch, many times I was like, Idon't know if landscape is a
long-term plan for me.
Got it.
And so transitioned off, workedfor an agency for a little
(07:01):
while, and then ended up havingto transition off.
They just made a cuts, a lot ofreduction in force for the
agency and ended up needinganother job.
Mm-hmm.
And so I had been a fan of 90,the tool that we had used Yeah.
For a long time.
And so I just happened to reachout to the CEO on LinkedIn and
just said, Hey.
I have been an evangelist foryou.
I brought it to many companies,yes.
Would love an opportunity towork here.
(07:22):
And he said, this is awesome.
Here's who you need to talk to,and they hired me.
Wow.
So was that, that's how I got to90.
So that was, let's see, would'vebeen late 2022, early 2023.
Okay, cool.
So you've been there since?
Yeah.
Okay.
So.
And what's your role in 90 rightnow?
So I work in strategicpartnerships.
Okay.
So we have our end consumers,which are typically small
businesses, typically CEOs,leadership teams, and then
(07:44):
additional teams as they go downand roll out to the rest of the
organization.
But that's kind of our primaryaudience.
And then we also have a channel,which are business coaches.
So business coaches that come inand work with leadership teams
on how to implement a specificsystem.
Yes, I work in building that,that shape.
Okay, dude, that's great.
Yeah.
Now, um, shifting into thefamily life.
(08:04):
Yeah.
Uh, wife, kids, what's thestatus there?
Yeah.
So got a wife.
Awesome.
Okay.
Her name's Olivia.
She's a teacher.
Okay.
She is first grade.
Okay.
Do not know how she does thatall day.
Okay.
I, uh, God bless all theteachers out there.
Yes, that's right.
They should give more money.
Um, no.
And then we also have a4-year-old.
Okay.
So he just turned four.
(08:25):
Okay.
Uh, the day of this recording,it was last week, so, okay.
Awesome man.
We got, um, a 3-year-old and8-year-old.
And the fours, um, are yousleeping yet?
Are is it?
Yes.
Okay.
That's the wind.
Yeah, absolutely.
He was a, he has been an awesomesleeper, but it is, my mom
always jokes with me.
She said You were 12 hours on,12 hours off.
(08:46):
And those 12 hours on we're onvery on.
And I was like, got it.
I understand that now.
Ah, I have a son.
Yes.
Yes.
Um, okay.
So I wanna go into the, theFacebook stuff Yeah.
Because you didn't reallymention that along that career
journey.
Yeah.
So I know you were still workingon that.
Right.
Give the audience, um, why didyou, why was, um, tell us what
(09:07):
it is that you, that you are.
I.
You studied?
Yeah.
And then why that?
Yeah, that's a good question.
So the PhD was around 2020, so Iwas actually still in
landscaping at that time.
Okay.
So my dad has his PhD and Idon't know, you knew me in high
school.
I was not the, I was not a starstudent.
(09:29):
I, uh, I, I love the athleticsand just being a goofball.
And so school just.
It was a thing, right?
Yeah, yeah.
Just make sure I was good enoughto play.
Right.
And then really, I think once Istarted, like it was tail end of
my college career started to geta little more serious.
I think it was because I startedto study things that were
specific to my degree.
(09:50):
Right?
Yeah.
It was like I.
Not just gen ed classes, it waslike, oh, learning is actually
fun when you learn about thingsthat you wanna learn about.
Right, right.
And um, and so that's what, thenthe MBA did very well in that
program.
And then in 2020 I just got thisitch, like I finished the MBA
about 2018 or so.
Okay.
And then in 2020 felt this itchto like.
(10:11):
I continue to like, just levelmyself up.
Yeah.
And differentiate myself.
And so the only thing left was aPhD.
So I was like, yeah, why not?
Okay.
And, uh, and so the degree is ina, uh, it's strategic
communication.
So the long-term plan for me wasalways to get into like
consulting or coaching.
I was just, I fell in love withthat.
And so I felt that this wouldhelp give a little bit of
(10:32):
credibility behind my name.
'cause I'm 32.
I'm not, I mean, I'm not.
Getting some gray hairs.
Right.
Right.
But I, you know, I, I, I stillhave life to live.
Yeah.
And so it was like, okay, wellmaybe I can front load a little
bit of academic credibilitymm-hmm.
To maybe not necessarily speedthat along, but just give myself
a little bit more of afoundation, if you will.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So that's really what it wasthen.
(10:53):
And then for the PhD, I had tobasically decide what I wanna
focus on with the sky's thelimit on that.
Right.
I mean, do whatever you want.
Right.
I mean, there's some of thedissertations you read, it's
like.
Right.
That's a thing.
Is that even right?
And so I like to be relevant andso I decided to do Facebook and
it's kind of influenced.
So I really, it started withthis idea of social media, which
(11:15):
I love social media.
Um, I kind of grew up with it.
I'm that millennial or I meansimilar age.
We grew up with that.
We were know enough to where wecan remember life before that,
but also grew up with it, whichis a really unique position for
people our age because.
It, it's like a bridge betweenthe ones that knew life before
(11:35):
and then the ones that don'tknow life without.
Right.
Which is a unique place for us.
And so I think that's probably alittle bit of my interest in it.
Mm-hmm.
But I've always been fascinatedwith the role social media plays
in society.
Mm-hmm.
You know, I think with the last,you know, political elections
and a lot of just stuff going onin the world, like, it just
makes for an interesting topic.
(11:55):
Mm-hmm.
And so I wanted to startunderstanding, okay.
Is.
Somehow social media impactingthat in some form or fashion.
Mm-hmm.
Most people would say yes.
Yeah.
It's kind of hard to argue that.
Yeah.
And then I started to get alittle bit narrowed down'cause
my dad gave me some wonderfuladvice that said, Hey, you just
need to finish yourdissertation.
You don't need to solve worldproblems.
(12:16):
Yeah.
And so then it started to narrowit down.
Okay, let's narrow it down to.
Facebook, one individualplatform.
Let's talk about the commentsections of how they influence,
you know, the experience youhave.
Yeah.
So when you go through and reada comment section, there's an
algorithm that's feeding youinformation where you might see
a certain comment.
I may see a different one.
So it's a different experience,and so then it starts to go in
(12:38):
what's most relevant.
Mm-hmm.
And so that then leads toengagement, which then I started
to find.
Okay, there's probably somecorrelations into.
Hey, polarizing uncivil,dramatic content, emotional
content.
Mm-hmm.
It's probably ranked prettyhigh, therefore it's putting it
at the top, which then justfeeds it.
(12:58):
Mm-hmm.
So it becomes a cycle.
Mm-hmm.
So that's what I dove into inmy, my research to figure out,
okay, is there a there therewith that?
Is it influencing us and how isit influencing us?
Yeah.
So the common section, um,social media being sort of like
very relevant to today's, and Itotally agree.
The, the knowledge of what itwas like before.
Mm-hmm.
And after it is a uniqueposition.
(13:19):
Yeah.
And as dads, I mean, we'reseeing screens right.
Every turn.
I mean, I know you got a4-year-old.
Yeah.
But it, it is a constant, atleast in our family, it is a, a
topic of like how many Screentime are we having?
And also like, I don't like itwhen he sees me on my phone.
Like there's a definitely senseof, like, I think I've heard
someone joke jokingly, likethey're hiding phones behind
(13:41):
books.
Like, so that the kids don'teven like see like Yeah.
You know, the, the, the parentdoing it or you're kind of
hiding it.
Yeah.
Like, you know, and the kidwalks in or whatever.
So, um, so I definitely thinkthat's a, that's a major issue
today with a lot of dads islike, how are we doing screens
as well as social media?
Yeah.
Um.
So what were, I guess, some ofthe discoveries made from what
(14:05):
you found that maybe could be anapplication?
I mean, awareness I think isnumber key.
Is number one of just like,yeah, this obviously, like you
mentioned uncivil.
Yeah.
Um.
Just, you know, the, the hatespeech and all that stuff that
everyone kinda looks at, and ifyou kind of fall into it, it, it
can be a very slippery slope oflike, what are you trying to
gain here?
Yeah.
But, um, what were some maybethings that you discover, number
(14:27):
one, and things that we couldmaybe apply as dads that would
help us be better dads?
Yeah.
It's a, I, it's a greatquestion.
Um, I would say.
One of the key findings, um,were really, you know, everybody
thinks like the troll, right?
It's the troll that's just the,like the social media troll.
Right, right, right.
Yeah, right.
And um, and there's a lot oftruth to that, right?
(14:48):
But what I found was there areactually different.
Call it like versions of that.
Mm-hmm.
So there's ones that are, I callit the passionate partisan.
So those that are just liketheir belief system, their
ideology, they're just gonna goout of their way to like promote
that, share that.
And you've totally see that,right?
I believe this.
(15:09):
I will die on this note.
And like we're coming out of apresidential like Right.
It's obviously like that's ofthat, that's amplified during
that time.
Yes, yes, yes.
So that was one.
And then, um, the cynical joker.
Was another one.
Okay.
Um, which was more, it wasinteresting.
It was, it was a version of likeuncivil communication that was
very snarky.
Okay.
Like very pointed, almost anintellectual level.
(15:30):
Okay.
Which is different than just a,this passionate partisan, it's
like this ideology.
Yeah.
It was a lot more like.
Almost just rude.
Like, like undercut little.
Yeah.
Like that kind of thing.
Jabbing punch.
And then the last personalitywas the agitator, which is your
traditional troll.
They're just trying to like eggpeople on.
Okay.
You know, like kind of ash, likeeach one of those is different.
Okay.
Right.
They're like a different type ofpersonality.
(15:52):
And we group them all togetherinto just this troll thing.
Okay.
But I think that does this adisservice because you don't
need to, you're not gonnainteract with somebody that's
just trying to egg somebody onversus somebody that has an
ideological belief that theyreally hold onto.
Mm-hmm.
And they're just.
Acting like very brashly withthat like, so I think from that
standpoint, that was probably mybiggest like gift to the
academic community, if you will,because now people can have an
(16:15):
understanding, whether you're asocial media manager or really
just trying to understand it.
Mm-hmm.
You can see these things.
So I think the biggest thing forme that was probably a takeaway
mm-hmm.
Was the awareness.
Just kind of understanding thatthis is influencing me, you
know, this platform is designed.
(16:35):
To get me.
And it's almost like, you know,the gladiators like going, we
wanna like see this drama.
Yes.
Like that's what social media isnow.
'cause like I find myselfgetting sucked into these
comment sections.
It's like, yeah, oh man, I knowthis is gonna be a good comment
section.
You go in and it does notdisappoint.
And so, and you know, thenyou're sitting there for 30
minutes.
Right.
And you're reading just the scumof the earth going at it.
(16:56):
It's like, I dunno if that'sreally healthy.
And so I think that's a bigthing for me is understanding.
Okay.
If I'm getting looped into this,I wanna make sure that I'm in
control with my brain, that Iunderstand.
Mm-hmm.
I can look through this and if Ihave, what's my motivation for
going to this?
Am I going to be entertained?
Mm-hmm.
Am I going to whatever I'mtrying to find in there?
Yeah.
Right.
(17:17):
And so I think that's a bigthing.
And then understanding that it'srewarding that engagement.
Okay.
So the, it's, it's an echochamber, right?
What it's gonna do is it's gonnagive you viewpoints that you
agree with, and then it's gonnagive you the polar opposite of
that.
Okay.
Life has lived in between.
Yeah.
Like we probably disagree onsome things, but we're friends
(17:38):
and we get along.
We have an awesome conversation.
Yeah.
It's the same thing with peoplethat you may not know, and I
think what it does is it makesus think that we're all crazy
and everyone is just this,you're rather on this side, this
side.
It's like, no, that's, that's Ithink the worst thing that found
just through comment sections,which then I think tends to
bleed over into real life.
(17:59):
That's, yeah.
And so I think that was probablythe biggest thing for me.
Okay, so as, as dads, um, theawareness is key.
Um, you know, one of the thingsI was thinking of is, and I'm
glad you said it, like you gotthis, you know, behind the
screen, you're kinda safe.
You can say whatever you want,but then it does kind of
obviously translate to like,okay, now my mindset thinks this
person is this way.
If it's someone that you, youknow, go to church with or
(18:20):
something, and now I ratheridentify them or classify them
as a certain position and.
I just see divide happening, andof course there's probably some
attraction happening as well,but I think the divide is much
more, um, seen.
So, um, you know, I guess adviceto dads on this, on this front,
(18:40):
any, any type of application or,or.
Things that can be said, numberone, for ourselves, but also our
kids.
You know, it's, it's a, I feellike it's a very fine line
because, especially depending onthe age, like formative years,
right?
Mm-hmm.
Like, but I think there is alevel of, and this is the way
that I'm, I really am trying tolead my family.
I'm not, I don't think I'mperfect at this.
(19:00):
Mm-hmm.
And I mean, it's a 4-year-old isdifferent than like, when, you
know, is 15, right?
Like, it's just gonna bedifferent.
Right.
But at the same time, my parentsdid a really good job of
allowing me to travel with them.
Mm-hmm.
And go to other places and seeother cultures and understand
that there are other ways to dothings.
Hmm.
And being able to hold that,that maybe that's not how we do
(19:23):
it as a family, but we can stillrespect that.
Mm-hmm.
And then being able to holdthose things in almost a loose
way in our heads.
It's like, okay, that'sdifferent.
Doesn't mean it's bad, right?
And so I think as we go andencourage our kids to
understand, hey, you can differwith somebody, and then leading
with this curiosity, I thinkthat's lacking in American
(19:44):
culture, but I probably theworld.
Um, but this idea of, hey.
You really believe very stronglyabout that.
Tell me more on why you believethat.
That aspect, I think opens it upbecause then you start to
realize this person went throughso many experiences that then
influenced them to believe that.
(20:04):
And when you have thatunderstanding, I may still
disagree with you.
Sure.
But I have so much more respectfor you.
Instead of just writing themoff, like it's so easy to do in
a mm-hmm.
Facebook comment section.
Mm-hmm.
It's like, oh, you're wrong,blah, blah, blah.
It's so easy to do that.
Mm-hmm.
But when you're sitting acrossfrom somebody and asking them
and they're sharing theirexperiences, it makes a whole
lot more sense.
(20:24):
And I think that gives you moreempathy and curiosity to dig a
little bit.
So I think that's probably thebiggest thing that I would
encourage.
Dads as they lead their familyto lead with that curiosity.
Because if you open things up,nobody's ever gonna get upset at
somebody asking a genuinequestion.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I think when you, this is, thisis really good because by being
(20:45):
curious about someone else'sbeliefs, you're at least
allowing yourself to considerthat what they're saying is
right.
Yeah.
I'm not saying you were like,oh, because I asked, I have to
really believe what they'resaying, like you said.
But, um, how are we ever gonnachange ever our mindset unless
we are.
At least absorbing and listeningto other people.
Um, and unless, you know, wefeel like we're in a perfect
(21:08):
position, which I would hopethat no one thinks that way, um,
we're never gonna change either.
So I like that.
I would say the, I mean, I, I'vealways thought this even before
I did my dissertation work, but.
The, we tend to overestimate thepower of these.
You know, you go to aconference, you have a
(21:28):
conference high, you're superexcited, you got awesome
speaker, you're pumped up onsomething, or you go to a rally
and people are like, yes, let'sgo.
Right?
And then it dies off.
I think we overestimate thepower of that more group based
things and we underestimate thepower of one-on-one
conversations.
I think there is.
That is where the true healingof a society comes down to these
(21:50):
one-on-one conversations.
If more of us lead withcuriosity.
I think there's something to besaid.
There's a lot of power in thoseone-on-one conversations Yeah.
To change the world.
And I just, I fundamentallybelieve that with my soul all
about, go to a rally, believewhat you wanna believe, get
excited about it, but don'tneglect the one-on-one
conversations.
Yeah.
(22:11):
No, I, I love that in persontoo.
Yeah.
I feel like that's huge.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, neighbors.
Yeah.
Right.
Um, obviously.
You could go to church, uh, butyou know, the diner, you know,
wherever, restaurants, thewaiter, um, just the
interactions that we have, wehave such a unique influence,
um, in those per, uh,face-to-face conversations like
you're saying, that are outsideof the, you know, social media,
(22:32):
LinkedIn, whatever communities,um, that I think are crucial.
And as, especially when our kidsare younger, they're watching
us, we are able to model that.
Where you, what does my son seeme doing on the computer?
Well, I could be, you know,changing the world with, you
know, all these nice posts andwhatever, content creations.
But when he sees me talking to aneighbor or you know, the
contractor, whatever it is, he'sgetting so much more.
(22:55):
Right.
So, um, here, here, that's,that's great.
Yeah.
One of my questions I do likeasking is that, um.
The idea of like, what are mostdads missing today?
Like, what are, what's kind ofthe problem with that?
Maybe you've seen, um, but Ifeel like you're, you're kind of
in that, you've somewhat alreadyanswered it in regards to like
that lack of curiosity.
Anything you don't, you wanna godeeper there or add to that?
Yeah, I mean, I think thecuriosity is a huge part and I
(23:17):
mean, that's still somethingthat I'm learning.
It's so easy to.
Uh, there's a, an example, Imean, I, I had my son home, so I
work from home.
Yeah.
Which is, we can dive into thatif you want.
Just the pros and cons of that.
Yeah.
Um, but the, there was one timewhere I was kind of getting,
just finishing up something withwork, and then I came around the
corner and he had put a bunch ofstickers on the back of our
(23:39):
like, love, see, and like I feltthat emotion, like, dude, what
is, what were you thinking?
And then like.
He was like so excited to showme.
'cause like I saw it in hiseyes.
It was like his masterpiece, youknow?
Yes, yes.
And in that like, I'm proud ofthis and this is not me every
day, but I was pr like I wasable to take that emotion down
(24:00):
and then go in and like I.
Oh dude, that, that's reallycool.
Like here, let's, like, Ipivoted and had this like three
ring binder and I was like,look, let's decorate this.
You know, this is where we cankind of put on instead of the
couch and like redirect thatenergy.
Yes.
But I go with, it was acuriosity.
Like, instead of letting myemotions take over and like, run
with that, like, and like pushhim down mm-hmm.
(24:23):
For.
I mean, he was really proud oflike how he, you know, he
designed it right and like put'em together and like Right.
That would've like stifled hislittle creativity.
And so like, I'm so glad I hadthat moment where like, I
pivoted.
But I think the other thing is,is presence.
I see that, you know, there's alot of, especially in the C era,
I feel like it kind of forcedfamilies to be together.
(24:45):
Mm-hmm.
And which.
Hopefully that's a good thing.
Yeah.
Um, but there's a lot more oflike even the rise of remote and
hybrid work.
Yes.
At the end of the day, I thinkbeing present with your kids,
like my parents did a great jobof this.
I will never forget my mommissed my senior year of high
(25:05):
school.
I had a baseball game, Uhhuh,and that was the first game she
ever missed.
Oh, wow.
And she cried.
Wow.
And that was like meaningful tome because it was, it meant that
much that they were there.
You know what I mean?
Yeah.
And so, and she made sure mygrandpa was there.
So like there was someone in myfamily that there, um, but that.
Became a core part for me to,like, when I had the opportunity
(25:26):
to go remote, like I reserve,you know, 3 34 o'clock to like
seven o'clock.
That's like family time.
'cause my wife is a teacher.
Yeah.
She gets home, he Cooper goes toa daycare right near where she,
so they get home three 30 ish.
And so I wanna be present withhim, go outside, play with him,
you know, interact, play, andsometimes I am just beat at the
(25:47):
end of the day.
Yeah.
And it's not to say sometimes wedo just sit on the couch.
Yeah.
We just veg.
Yeah.
But that presence, right.
Of being able to, hey, you know,I think later this year we're
gonna, they're gonna go on atrip with me, which I used to go
on trips with my dad on businesstrips, but that, like, I want
him to feel that I'm there.
Yeah.
You know?
And that doesn't alwaysnecessarily mean.
(26:07):
Undivided attention because Ithink there is some, like
sometimes you do need to takesome time for you.
Yes.
But having that dedicated time,like I know four to seven I.
We're gonna be out playing,interacting with people.
Yeah.
And that's just a pivotalmoment.
So I think that's something thatI just wanna see.
I'm not that, I think dadsnowadays do a great job of that.
(26:28):
Yeah.
You know, and I think some of itcomes from the hybrid and remote
world.
Yeah.
But that presence is just a bigthing for me.
Yeah.
I, um, I, I've talked to theshow a little bit about what I
would call, well the book, um,the Intentional Father.
Mm.
I dunno if you've heard of thatbook.
Um, but they have theseclassifications of dad.
And one of them is the involveddad.
Yeah.
And the next one up is theintentional dad.
(26:50):
Mm.
So I always consider myself theinvolved dad.
Before I read this book, I waslike, yeah, I'm, you know,
making breakfast.
Yeah.
I'm, you know, throwing theball.
I'm, I'm, I'm with my kids.
But, um, sort of that likeeyeopening moment for me was,
there's a world where there'slike an intention and you've
talked about it in regards tolike, you're bringing them with
you on this family and, uh.
Um, even like reserving thattime four to seven.
(27:13):
Yeah.
Like there's intentionalitybehind this thing, um, where we
have a plan, you know, we have adirection we're trying to bring
them.
Um, versus just kinda like,well, which way's the wind
blowing today?
Okay, let's just kind of gothere.
So, um, you know, I feel likevested fathers, whatever we're,
we're putting in our minds forhow to level up business,
marriage, whatever.
(27:34):
I think there needs to be.
My, my passion is theintentionality to be like the
best dad.
How are we getting there?
Yeah.
And um, it doesn't just happen.
It doesn't just like, well I'm adad because I have a kid.
It's like, well, you're, yeah,that's, you know, I guess
technically right, but what is,what are you doing as a dad
that's leading?
So, um, I think that's, thatwould be my little soapbox of
(27:55):
what, what I'm passionate about.
Um, tell me, cam, I, I feel likethis is always sort of like
pulling back the curtain, butum.
You know, you only have a one,one kid.
He's four years old.
But tell me some hardships, ifyou don't mind, on just like,
okay, we had a career, sort ofpivots along the way.
Mm-hmm.
How long you been married now?
Yeah.
Coming up on, coming up on sevenyears.
Okay.
Seven years.
(28:16):
Um, and then you've been withthis recent company for like two
years now?
Yeah.
So one of that.
That topic of, I even hatesaying the word work-life
balance, but like the crossoverbehind, um, business and
fatherhood.
What are some things that youhas been a struggle that either
you're still facing today oryou've seen some victories
happen, you know, that theaudience can maybe relate with?
(28:36):
Yeah, man, I would say thebalancing the remote work.
So, and, and being a dad, solike.
You know, I'm getting off astrategic call, you know, and
then my commute home is a 32ndwalk down the stairs into World
(28:59):
War iii.
Right.
You know, and I think from amental shift standpoint, that's
so hard.
Mm-hmm.
You know, and so sometimes I'vestarted to like, okay, end that
call and just take like five.
To just sit and like, justdecompress a little bit.
Get out of that.
Like, I like it.
Boom, boom.
(29:19):
Yes.
Like you're like, goodbye.
And then you're like, like I goupstairs and help my wife right
there because is that motivationto like, you know, you hear him
downstairs and like going nutsand like, oh my gosh, let me get
like, you know, just give Oliviaa break and.
Sometimes you do need toprioritize, because then if I'm
just snapping out of a strategiccall, or maybe it went kind of
(29:40):
bad.
Yeah.
Or you know, and I'm not in thebest mood.
It's like give myself just asecond to like, it's good.
Breathe.
It's good.
And so that's been, I would say,an ongoing struggle.
Mm-hmm.
I think I'm starting to be alittle more aware of it.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Just understanding the value ofthat and the importance of that.
Mm-hmm.
Um, and then I think, you know,just the understanding.
Like how to take care of myselfpersonally.
(30:02):
It's so easy to like just startchecking things out.
Like, all right, I gotta get thelaundry done, gotta get folded,
gotta gotta go pick up, youknow, and all these things.
And then starting to prioritizelike my own health, mental,
spiritual, physical, like all ofthese things.
Mm-hmm.
And so figuring that in from aschedule standpoint of like,
(30:23):
okay, you know, it works reallywell, like.
They, you know, Olivia, they,she has to be into school at
seven 15 in the morning.
Mm-hmm.
You know, so she's leaving atlike six 30.
She teaches kind of a littleways away.
And so that gives me time in themorning to be able to go to the
gym.
Mm-hmm.
You know, be able to get someexercise or go walk or do
something like.
Mm-hmm.
So it's starting to prioritizethat a little bit more.
(30:44):
'cause it's so easy to get intojust let, letting life, I think
you, I mean it's intentionality.
Mm-hmm.
And I think from a fatherhoodstandpoint, absolutely.
But then I've also started tolike.
Hey, if I'm gonna go to the gym,you know, like Sunday afternoon,
like Coop and I have started togo swim.
Yeah.
He loves that.
Yes.
Getting in the pool.
So like inviting him in on thosethings.
Mm-hmm.
But then allowing him to kind oflike start to see that modeled a
(31:07):
little bit mm-hmm.
Has been really rewarding.
I used to think it was justlike, all right, that's my time.
Right.
But then I can start to, oncertain occasions, invite him on
things, which has been a lot offun too.
So, yeah.
No, I, I love this topic.
I, um, my son has these little,uh, physical therapy.
Exercises he has to do.
Yeah.
And what I've learned is I wouldgo to the gym and you, whether
it be a leg day or what, I'd betired.
(31:29):
But then he's like, Hey dad, youwanna do this exercise with me?
And it's like the last thing Iwanna do, it's like I just did
my legs and you're like doing,you know, these lunches and
everything.
I'm just like, it's reallyhurting.
Like I'm really in pain now.
But we're doing it together andit's, and it's now, I'm not even
doing it for me.
I'm just like.
He's seen me.
I, you know, I want him to seeme actually like, struggle.
Yeah.
Like, I want him to see me,like, push through it, because
(31:50):
I, that that's, that's a bigthing for us right now is like
that delayed gratificationversus immediate gratification
and these, you know, videogames, whatever, it's all just
like ping, ping, ping.
But what happens when you'retrying to like, you know, get
stronger?
Yeah.
Or get faster.
Like, it doesn't just happen.
You have to get it, you know,over and over.
So, um, love that.
Incorporating the kids even at ayounger age.
(32:10):
Um, and then you said just likeschedule, maybe go a little
deeper on.
Like the intentionality ofbettering our health.
'cause I, I, I had someone onthe show von Bethel, and he was
like, you can't help anyone elseuntil you've really helped
yourself.
Yeah.
And just sort of like, that's,forget how he said it, but it
was something like that.
So, um, so anything else therethat you, that you've seen as
like a, oh, this is somethingI've been lacking just from
(32:31):
being busy.
Yeah.
So I.
Yes.
To that.
I mean, you have to prioritizeyourself.
I mean, it, it goes a little bitcounterintuitive, right?
Than I think some culturalthings that maybe from an
upbringing standpoint orwhatever you're taught, it's
like others first, you know?
Right, right.
Um, but there's a lot of truthto it.
Like, if I don't take care of myhealth, right, I'm gonna die.
(32:53):
I'm gonna exist anymore.
Like, I can't help anybody atthat point.
Yeah.
And so being able to go in andprioritize yourself is crucial.
And so what I did was actually Ineed someone to yell at me to
like run.
Mm-hmm.
Or chase a ball Yeah.
To run.
And so hired a trainer.
Yeah.
Which was a great investmentYes.
(33:13):
For me to go in and havesomebody like, organize
something based on my goals andjust make me do things.
Yes.
Awesome.
I just know myself.
Yes.
I'm a very disciplined person.
Yeah.
When it comes to business and,and some things, but like with.
Sports and like physical stuff.
I am not gonna run if I don'thave it.
Right, right, right.
No, I love it.
(33:33):
Yeah.
I was a goalkeeper, you know, Idon't wanna run.
Um, and so, and then the otherthing was I actually hired a, a
growth coach.
Okay.
Which was interesting.
So, um, through, uh, Stacy,shout out Stacy Geisel.
Um, she's also, she's local toGreenville, um, but she's a
holistic health and like stresscoach.
Yeah.
And so what she's done is she'sreally helped me kind of just
(33:55):
design my life.
And that has been so helpful.
Cool.
Dude.
The, I had a session with herearlier this morning and we just
talked through all thesedifferent facets of my life, but
really just kind of mainstressors for me and just from
personal and professional, thathas been by far the best
investment I've ever made.
Awesome.
'cause it's helped me.
(34:17):
I kind of went into it thinkinglike it's just gonna like solve
some things for me, but likewhat it's does make me really
more introspective and likestarted to learn myself and my
tendencies.
And I think those are the waysthat you start to take care of
yourself and you don't havenecessarily go out and like hire
a personal trainer and you know,like, but having that
willingness to dig deep into,alright, what are some weak
(34:39):
spots in me?
What are some areas that I needto improve on?
And then starting to build, Ilove.
Again, I work for a companycalled 90, but I love the power
of 90 because there's so muchthat you can accomplish in 90
days when you start to buildyour world around a 90 day
world.
Mm-hmm.
You can start to go in and startto accomplish, you know, all
(35:00):
right, here's some key thingsthat I want to go after and
here's some, you know, KPIs.
Yeah.
You know, or tasks that I needto get done in these specific
times.
Like you can start to build outthat way.
So I.
Basically follow that path, allright, Hey, in this 90 day
period I wanna do these threethings and I'm gonna execute on
that.
Mm-hmm.
And I'm gonna start to reverseengineer what needs to happen on
(35:22):
a weekly basis for me to getthere.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
So it's just like, I'm running abusiness, but I'm running my
life.
So that's how I've started tokind of think through it that
way.
That's great.
I've, I've started that book the12 week year.
Yeah.
I don't, it's probably verysimilar to how you guys train
it.
Um.
And it's a different mindsetshift, you know,'cause there's
like the yearly goals and justthat idea though of, how are you
(35:42):
getting to an end goal?
90 is a great number.
And, um, dude, the, the, howlong have you had this trainer
or this um, this life coach kindof growth coach?
Uh, coming about a year.
Okay.
Yeah.
And you've just seen, like,since that started, like, yeah.
Wow.
For sure.
Yeah.
No, that's great.
I, I love that message mean inmarriage and fatherhood and my
(36:03):
personal Yes.
Just individual life.
Yeah.
My professional life, like,yeah.
Cam, thank you so much for yourtime today.
Absolutely.
You, you've dropped so much goodinsights.
Uh, you know, the thing aboutVested Fathers, this PO podcast,
my goal is I just wanna create aspace that dads, it's, it's not
a right or wrong.
This is what we're doing and howcan we grow together from it.
So, um, here's some of yourstruggles and some things you've
(36:23):
learned have been very helpfulfor me.
Uh, cam, if people wanted tokind of follow what you're up
to, give them some, give us away to track what you're doing.
And then any closeout, um, wordsof wisdom you'd wanna share?
No pressure.
Right.
Got the word.
And the church man.
Um, yeah, no, I mean, I think ifpeople wanna maybe connect, um,
(36:44):
I'm on LinkedIn, I'm all overLinkedIn.
Um, I strategically have limitedmy social media, um, just when
you dive into the scum ofFacebook makes you not
necessarily wanna be on thatvery much.
So that was just a personaldecision, just to like limit and
be present with my family justto limit some things.
But I'm on LinkedIn, um, ifpeople wanna get in touch with
me via about 90 that's fine.
(37:06):
Happy to talk about thatfatherhood.
I mean, whatever.
I'm an open book.
Yeah.
So, um, but you can search CamLawson.
You should find me.
I think it's like, I think myactual UR was like Cam Lawson
90.
Okay, cool.
So cool.
Um, and then, yeah, I mean, asfar as a closing word, um, what,
I mean, what comes to mind isthe power of this kind of
(37:29):
community.
I think being a.
Father can be very lonely.
Mm-hmm.
And by nature, men are verycompetitive and a lot of times
we want to push down because wewanna be the best.
And that has gotten us probablyfar in life.
But I think there's tremendousvalue in having these kinds of
(37:52):
conversations and having morecommunity.
I'm very fortunate to workalongside two other guys who are
also dads at 90.
We're all kinda the sameposition, and it's been funny
hearing some of the wives talk.
They're like, you guys like justthrow out, you know, just
compliments and like you aren'tafraid of that.
You're like secure in that, andit's like, mm-hmm.
(38:13):
Yeah.
That's the way it should be.
Yeah.
Like we should, if we see, youknow, Brandon, do something
awesome, I'm absolutely gonnatell him that.
Yeah.
'cause he needs to hear that.
Yeah.
Because I know he doesn't, he'sprobably not feeling it.
Yeah.
And so I think more of that inthe male community is just so
powerful because then it createsmore momentum.
(38:33):
Mm-hmm.
And I think goes to yourultimate vision.
So that's what I would say moreof.
More of this.
Cam, thank you so much.
Um, and for all the otherinvested dads out there, keep
going.
and invest wisely.
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