S3E10: Navigating Midlife Health and Happiness on the Sober (Curious) Path

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Have you ever wondered what life could be like without alcohol, even if you don't hit rock bottom? Our guests, Laura Valvasori and Sarah Williamson, illuminate the empowering journey of becoming "sober curious," a path that invites us to reconsider our relationship with alcohol before it becomes a crisis. Laura and Sarah share their personal transformations, revealing how an alcohol-free lifestyle improved their overall well-being in ways they never imagined especially in midlife. Their stories remind us that sobriety is not just a response to addiction but can be a proactive choice to enhance life quality and personal fulfillment.

OUR GUESTS:

Laura Valvasori is a Business & Well-Being Mentor who helps women see what is possible, simplifies their path forward, and empowers them to live their best lives. As a multi-passionate entrepreneur who lives intuitively, Laura is the founder of Good to Grow Marketing, the creator of Still Me, But Alcohol-Free, the author of Good to Grow: Cultivate Your Mindset and Habits to Thrive as an Entrepreneur and a Certified Emotion Code Practitioner. Laura lives in Oakville, Ontario with her husband, two teenagers and dog Remy.

Laura has put together this guide of her favorite non-alcoholic mocktails.

Connect with Laura: Website  |  Instagram  |  Facebook

Sarah Williamson is a coach, trainer, public speaker, podcaster and published author. She has spent the last 15 years coaching and mentoring people who've struggled with their addictions and mental health, she feels that choosing to change your relationship with alcohol before you hit rock bottom is a powerful and positive choice to make and the choices you can make are not necessarily black or white. Sarah is passionate about spreading the message that our lives can be joyful and fun on the other side of our drinking careers and we don’t need to get hung up on what other people think of us if we choose to drink less or not at all.

Sarah offers her complimentary 5-Day Drink Less; Live Better experiment for you right here.

Connect with Sarah: Website  |  Instagram  |  Facebook  |  Podcast

HOST:

Christina Smith is a life coach specializing in confidence and self-love in midlife.

CONNECT with Inviting Shift & Christina:

Instagram  |  Facebook  |  Email me

FREE GIFT: The Confidence Tool Kit is here to help you walk into the second half like a queen (because you are one already). Get it here. 

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  years, especially asperimenopause symptoms have hit
  me pretty harshly is alcoholintake and, you know, being
  sober curious.
  I love this word that we'vecome up with, and what I love
  
  (00:24):
  about this topic and thebeautiful woman that I have here
  is this isn't about having tohit rock bottom all the time.
  This doesn't even have to dowith.
  You may not be an alcoholic,but you may just be looking at,
  wow, how is alcohol actuallyimpacting my body and impacting
  
  (00:45):
  my life?
  And so, with that, I just wantto introduce our two really
  lovely women that are going tobe here.
  We have this internationalconnection here.
  Laura Valvasori and SarahWilliamson are going to be just
  chatting with me about beingsober curious and what happened
  
  (01:05):
  for them when they decided tonot do alcohol anymore.
  So, without any further ado, Ijust want them to introduce
  themselves so they can tell youa little bit about themselves.
  Laura, how about you?
  Thank you for being here.
  
  Laura Valvasori (01:19):
  Thank you for having me.
  I'm very excited.
  It's nice to have thisinternational connection.
  I'm coming to you right nowfrom Northern Ontario, so
  representing Canada in thisconversation, and I'm a business
  and well-being mentor and I'vecreated a program called Still
  Me, but Alcohol-Free, and it'sbased on my experience of going
  alcohol-free from a place ofwanting more well-being and
  
  (01:42):
  better health, not because ofaddiction, and for me, as you
  mentioned, perimenopause, thatwas really the trigger for me to
  start looking at my own intakeof alcohol.
  I was not what would beconsidered an alcoholic, I was a
  social drinker and we have anactive social life and around 43
  
  (02:03):
  , I think, I was starting tosense that alcohol just wasn't
  agreeing with me anymore.
  But I did not want to admitthat because I very much enjoyed
  my white wine and I wasstarting to experience some
  symptoms like anxiety that wascoming out of nowhere.
  I was experiencing a lot ofheartburn and just kind of
  
  (02:24):
  digestive issues and notsleeping great and I, as I said,
  I was starting to suspect itwas the alcohol, but I didn't
  want to admit it.
  So I did everything else that Icould to try to combat it.
  I'd go to the natural path andI'd take supplements and I'd do
  all the things.
  And it got to a point, after athree-week vacation that we were
  
  (02:45):
  on um, I'm coming to you rightnow from our boat.
  We have a boat as a family andwe had taken a three-week boat
  trip and I drank every day onthat vacation because it was a
  vacation and I wasn't drunk butI was, you know, having a
  cocktail or a caesar in themorning and a cocktail in the
  afternoon, and some wine was init all.
  It was just sort of steadilydrinking.
  
  (03:07):
  And by the end of that threeweeks I felt horrible and I felt
  like it was the build-up thatmade me realize that I had to
  make a change and to try as anexperiment, going alcohol-free,
  to see how it impacted.
  So I didn't set a timeline, Ijust decided for a while I would
  
  (03:27):
  quit and I would come at itfrom a mindset of not from being
  deprived but focusing on morewell-being.
  And the shift was so dramaticfor me the heartburn disappeared
  within the first week, my sleepchanged, the anxiety decreased.
  So many positive things startedhappening that I thought I
  can't not continue to do this.
  
  (03:49):
  So I just sort of kept goingfor a little longer, a little
  longer, a little longer, andthat was four years ago at this
  point and it has just become away of life for me that I don't
  really even think about otherthan when we're having these
  conversations, because myidentity is just shifted to
  being someone who doesn't drinkand I don't feel like I'm
  missing out on something or needsomething.
  
  (04:10):
  It's just sort of who I am atthis point.
  
  Christina Smith (04:12):
  Thank you, wow, thank you.
  I don't think these are thestories that we're used to
  hearing about people who give upalcohol, which I think is like
  so amazing, right, we alwaysthink it has to be like those
  people who really messed uptheir lives.
  They're no longer going to work, they're you know, they're,
  they're, uh, abusing theirfamily, like all of these types
  
  (04:32):
  of thing, and so I really lovethat we're sharing these stories
  , because they're very relatable, I think, for so many women um
  rather than severe addictionstories.
  So, sarah, tell us a little bitabout you.
  Thanks for being here.
  
  Sarah Williamson (04:46):
  It's lovely to join you today.
  From just outside London in theUK, my business is called Drink
  Less, live Better, and I've gota story that is really quite
  similar to Laura's.
  I had spent about 15 yearsworking in local government.
  One of the things that I did inmy role was talking to young
  
  (05:08):
  people pretty much all day,every day, about their substance
  use and misuse, and I hadn'trealised that I'd really blocked
  off in my head that because ofthe substances the young people
  I was working with might nothave been available to purchase
  legally.
  My substance of choice, whichwas white wine fizz gin
  
  (05:32):
  available to buy in thesupermarket, was not any kind of
  problem, but I definitely gotto that point where I really
  recognised I was doing myself adisservice with how much I was
  drinking.
  I was also doing all the greensmoothies, the yoga, the going
  for a run, buying thesupplements and sometimes even
  
  (05:54):
  taking them.
  The idea that I was adding allof these things in that were
  costing either time, money.
  All of these things in thatwere costing either time, money,
  energy or a combination of allof those things, and at the end
  of the day, necking that toxinstarted to not quite make sense
  
  (06:14):
  to me anymore, and so, ratherthan the keep adding new things
  in, I decided to run thisexperiment of taking the alcohol
  out and it really wasexperimental to see how it felt.
  And I gave myself fullpermission um that I could go
  back to drinking at any point ifI wanted to.
  I don't um view myself as neverdrinking again.
  
  (06:39):
  I don't like hard and fastrules and boundaries in my life,
  so I choose not to drink.
  I'm not in any way attracted toalcohol anymore, but I just
  happen not to say I'm neverdrinking again, because that was
  a lie.
  I told myself.
  Every single hangover I everhad, I said I'm never drinking
  
  (07:01):
  again, and of course, what Imeant was I'm never drinking
  again until Thursday.
  I'm never drinking again, andof course, what I meant was I'm
  never drinking again untilThursday.
  So giving myself the permissionto see how I would feel without
  alcohol, discovering how muchbetter I did feel and choosing
  to carry on with that, has beensuch a gift.
  I think all of those messagesthat we receive media films,
  
  (07:26):
  stories around that rock bottomaround you know, getting a drink
  , driving offence, losing yourjob, blowing up your
  relationship All of you knowsomebody had to go into rehab or
  medical detox, whatever thedrama filled story is.
  Or medical detox, whatever thedrama-filled story is stories
  that get the spotlight, almost.
  
  (07:47):
  And actually these are thestories where they're told that
  somebody is backed into a corner.
  They had to stop drinking, theywere told to stop drinking and
  over here there's a real quietcorner of the world that is
  getting louder.
  That's saying, actually guesswhat?
  It's an empowering choice.
  It doesn't have to haveanything to do with anyone else
  
  (08:11):
  telling you what to do oradvising you that this is best
  for you.
  This can just be a really quietdecision that you make and you
  get to design in your own way asyou go along.
  And my story was one ofsignificantly cutting down my
  drinking, drinking less over aperiod of time before I got to
  
  (08:32):
  the point where I stopped and Iwouldn't have had the language
  for it at the time.
  But now I reflect on it andrecognize, you know, this was a
  period of me really successfullymoderating my drinking.
  It was a period of harmreduction.
  It was a time in which I wentfrom drinking if I was out with
  
  (08:53):
  my girlfriends, you know, awhole bottle of wine to myself
  to if ever I went out with mygirlfriends, drinking a maximum
  of two glasses of wine a monthon an evening.
  And some people might say, ohyou know, look at that person
  over there drinking two glassesof wine on a night out.
  She hasn't got any kind ofproblem.
  There's nothing to see here.
  
  (09:14):
  She doesn't need telling tostop drinking.
  But for myself, I just knew Iwas not feeling great even with
  that small amount of alcohol.
  So I'm excited to have thisconversation.
  Like you, I love that idea ofsober curiosity.
  Christina.
  That wasn't something, you know, that wasn't language.
  That was in my head five yearsago and I love now that this is
  
  (09:38):
  a much more, I think,all-encompassing conversation
  that we can have that takes ineverything, that's the shades of
  grey in between the hard blackand the hard white.
  
  Christina Smith (09:51):
  Yeah, thanks for sharing all that.
  Wow, yeah, so this is reallyabout us being actually just
  more conscious of our ownwell-being.
  I think at least that's whatit's been for me, and you know,
  to be just outright and honestwith the audience, I am not
  sober at this moment.
  I mean, I'm sober in this moment, but I am not.
  
  (10:17):
  I'm not on a sober lifestyleright now.
  I have been really curious.
  I am like Sarah, where I've cutdown right and to the point
  where some people would look atme and be like, ah, she doesn't
  have a problem, like that's Imean.
  So what?
  She has a cocktail and she'sout to dinner, like that's not a
  big deal, right, and it's again, it's not a big deal.
  
  (10:39):
  I've never, like not gone towork because I was drinking.
  I've never you know, I've neverabused family and blamed it on
  the alcohol.
  Um, none of those things havehappened.
  And yet, um, what?
  What has happened for me is inthe last two or three years,
  I've learned that if I drinkalcohol the week before my
  
  (11:00):
  menstrual cycle starts, I amfeeling ill.
  When it starts, like, I havechills, I have sweats, my heart
  starts like doing that poundingthing, I feel nauseous and bad,
  and so like.
  So I guess there are like aweek and a half to two weeks out
  
  (11:22):
  of the month where I choose notto drink alcohol at all because
  it does not feel good in mybody.
  And that's what motivates methe most, because I'm really
  against the whole whiteknuckling everything.
  I don't like to white knucklethings.
  I have done that in the pastwith things like when I was
  smoking.
  
  (11:42):
  You know, I was like, oh, itfelt like a white knuckling of
  letting go of that habit until Ifound a way and it's more like
  what you guys are saying is likeI found this way of going.
  Wow, when I don't do that, Iactually feel better.
  I can go up the stairs and notbe winded, I can.
  And that's what I'm learningwith the alcohol is like when I
  
  (12:03):
  don't drink the alcohol, myperimenopausal symptoms are so
  much less and so I've starteddrinking less and less.
  And I am sober, curious.
  I am curious about like, whenwill I start my journey of being
  of just saying, hey, I'm notgoing to do that, it's not going
  to be today, it's my birthday.
  
  (12:24):
  Saying, hey, I'm not going todo that, it's not going to be
  today, it's my birthday, and umdoesn't mean that it can't be in
  the future, but I would say, um, both of you work with people
  who are really um, sober,curious, and what would you say
  are some of the symptoms thatthey come to you and they're
  like, maybe alcohol is notfitting in my life that they
  
  (12:45):
  come to you and they're likemaybe alcohol is not fitting in
  my life.
  
  Laura Valvasori (12:52):
  I'll start so.
  I feel like a lot of the womenthe women in my program are
  midlife as well, so there's alot of talk about sleep problems
  .
  Joint pain and generalinflammation in the body is
  another one that comes up a lot,and anxiety I'd say those are
  the three that come up mostfrequently.
  And as people go through theprogram, I take them through a
  process where we um, we make alist of all the symptoms you're
  
  (13:15):
  going to track.
  So what are you experiencingnow and then throughout the time
  , because it's it's sometimeshard to notice when you're
  having small shifts andimprovements.
  So being mindful about it helps.
  You see oh wait a second I amsleeping a lot better.
  I did have less of the anxiety.
  My knuckles feel better andthey were always sore when I got
  up.
  So those, I think, are the topsort of physical things.
  
  (13:38):
  And then I think that the otherthing that comes up a lot is
  the mental brain chatter, thatthe other thing that comes up a
  lot is the mental brain chatter.
  So for women who are feelinglike they need to explore their
  relationship, it's not somethingthat happens overnight.
  It's usually something that'sbeen building up for a while.
  They're starting to think aboutit and feel uncomfortable and
  and make commitments tothemselves to not drink tonight,
  
  (13:59):
  but then go out and have adrink and then beat themselves
  up.
  And so I think they get to thepoint where this mental chatter
  starts becoming so much of aweight that they're willing to
  look at what's happening intheir life.
  Sarah, what's your experience?
  
  Sarah Williamson (14:13):
  Yeah, definitely similar to that.
  I think those are some of theinitial points that come out.
  I think it's so great to beable to point to almost the
  quick, the quick things thathappen.
  You know people sleep improvesreally quickly right.
  Also skin you know the breakoutsthat you might have been having
  
  (14:36):
  and not recognizing what theywere to do with the idea.
  I think it's really importantwhen we start having
  conversations about values, youknow, and people will talk to me
  about how much they care forthemselves in terms of exercise,
  nutrition, and then startquestioning that point around oh
  
  (14:56):
  , and then at the end of theevening I neck that toxin and
  where people are prepared tocome to the truth or not, around
  the idea that alcohol is apoison and some people are going
  to be really resistant to thatbecause it almost takes the fun
  and the edge off that thing thatthey weren't really enjoying.
  
  (15:17):
  So I think the values piece isimportant and also increasingly
  I'm having conversations with myclients about what they're
  modelling for their kids.
  So my children are 16 and 17.
  Very happy that in my householdthey have got a parent who
  drinks nothing at all and aparent who does drink beers from
  
  (15:40):
  time to time, and I like theidea that my kids see in their
  household that drinking isn'tthe default.
  It's not what you have to do Ifyou have a stressful day at work
  .
  You don't have to come home andpour a glass of wine or crack
  open a beer.
  There are other ways ofemotionally dealing with perhaps
  
  (16:02):
  that overload, that overwhelm.
  Maybe you know the stressthat's going on in your life and
  we can tell our kids as oftenas we like all the information
  we might want them to hear, butour kids are watching every
  single thing that we do andmodelling for them A way that I
  would think to myself in thefuture.
  
  (16:23):
  If I'm watching one of my kidshave a tough time, I who knows
  whether they'll be having adrink or not having a drink
  whilst they're dealing with thathard time?
  But I enjoy the idea at themoment that I won't have taught
  them a default mode is pouring adrink hmm, I'll build on that.
  
  Laura Valvasori (16:43):
  It's um.
  It's an interestingconversation because I have a 17
  and 19 year old and so I alsoagree that I'm I'm modeling for
  them and my husband continued todrink.
  He's reduced his drinking, buthe does still um have wine and
  beer from time to time.
  And my daughter is atuniversity and she's 19 and she
  
  (17:04):
  drinks.
  And if I were to say to her, Ican tell her everything, all of
  the scary stuff in my program, Ican tell her all the facts.
  I know that it's not going tomean anything to her at this
  point in her life, but she hasseen me make the shift and I
  feel like it's part of a lifeexperience that she's having
  
  (17:26):
  right now and that she will, I'mhoping, come to an
  understanding early in her lifeabout what alcohol is and how it
  fits into her life.
  But I think it's important toknow that you can't just push
  this down someone's throat.
  You can't be like I'm thealcohol-free advocate, oh my
  gosh, because it is.
  When you start learning all thescience you're like, oh my God.
  
  (17:46):
  I want to tell everyone thisand everyone should know,
  because I didn't know even whenyou mentioned.
  Alcohol is a poison, it's atoxin.
  I did not know that.
  I knew it wasn't good for you,but I didn't know that it was
  actually a neurotoxin, that is,a known carcinogen.
  So I think it becomes aboutrole modeling and doing what's
  
  (18:07):
  right for you and knowing thatit'll have a ripple effect on
  people in the time that they'reready to receive it yeah, would
  I?
  
  Christina Smith (18:17):
  so for me, my mother did not drink.
  She maybe, if she has twococktails a year, like that's a
  big, that's a valor year forlike, that's a big, that's a
  valor year for her, that's themost alcohol that I've seen her
  drink.
  Um, and I really didn't drinkthat much up until the pandemic
  happened.
  And then we were like home allthe time.
  We weren't going anywhere CauseI was always like designated
  
  (18:39):
  driver, cause I would drink theleast and um, but once I was
  home and I got reallycomfortable with the vodka, I
  realized after like a year I waslike Ooh, that's a lot, like
  that's a lot.
  And so, um.
  So I've had to look at like,what, where are my levels?
  
  (19:00):
  And then, of course,perimenopause came and kicked my
  butt and was like um, maybe yougotta look at this a little
  closer.
  I've gotten much better, whichI really.
  I appreciate that, and I feellike I'm in one of those women
  that are just about to say yes,to like a coach, like one of you
  
  (19:20):
  , who would be like okay, nowyou're ready, right.
  So and I love that youmentioned that it's not like we
  notice, oh, this thing's bad forme, I'm not doing this anymore.
  
  Laura Valvasori (19:31):
  I wish it was so easy, like that Right.
  
  Christina Smith (19:35):
  But unfortunately, like we have to,
  I I at least.
  For me, I have to test waters.
  I'm a very late adopter.
  My husband is like the opposite, like if he tries something and
  he feels great about it, he'lldo it every day for the rest of
  his life, or not do it, whateverthe thing is.
  And I'm like I need to knowthat it's proven, that's tested.
  
  (19:56):
  I want to make sure that I'mgetting something out of it and
  I have noticed that, um, when Idon't drink during my period and
  taking care of myself at thesame time in other ways, like
  the, the motivation is no longerto white knuckle it.
  It's more like, oh, I want moreof that.
  Oh, I had more energy today, Iwant more, I slept better last
  
  (20:20):
  night, I want more of that.
  And so what?
  I think, laura, when you weretalking about these like little
  shifts you know I do the samething with my clients
  overconfidence, or having hardconversations, or
  self-validation.
  It's like these come in tiny,bite-sized things and sometimes
  they don't come until like we'vehad that cocktail and then
  we're like, oh, that was not agood idea, like I don't really.
  
  (20:43):
  Or we wake up the next morningand like why did I?
  Why did I have those cocktails?
  I knew I wasn't going to feelgood, I knew I had to do things
  today and here I am, you know,not feeling great.
  So I think sometimes we do haveto go through things enough.
  But I think the important partis, you know, just even just
  starting to be mindful about itis what I'm hearing about from
  
  (21:06):
  both of you is like justnoticing, like even if you're
  not going to change any of yourhabits right now, just starting
  to be mindful and going, hmmwell, how does this drink feel?
  Am I?
  How does this?
  And when I quit smoking, it waslike the same thing, right,
  like how does it feel at first?
  You know, if I haven't had acigarette all day to have that
  
  (21:28):
  one cigarette that I thought Ineeded, and that's when I was
  like, oh, actually it kind oftastes gross, it kind of, you
  know, makes me feel a littlenauseous at first and like all
  of those things start adding up.
  So what do we think that thefirst steps?
  Like if I was like I've gottento the point that maybe Sarah
  has gotten to where she's like,ah, I'm just going to do this
  
  (21:50):
  for a while and if, after Xamount of time, I find it's not
  helping or, you know, I'm notgetting any benefit from it, I'm
  going to give myself permissionto go back.
  But what is, what are the sortof the first steps that you
  think that, um, women or anybodymight need?
  I'm speaking specifically tomidlife women because, let me
  tell you, you didn't even knowhow exacerbated the alcohol is
  
  (22:14):
  making the symptoms I think theimportant first steps is around
  recognizing um why you're doingsome of your drinking.
  
  Sarah Williamson (22:25):
  So an example of that for me would have been
  that some of my drinking washabitual drinking.
  I had a particular Thursdaynight, one gin and tonic habit
  and that was particularly tiedup in the job that I finished
  doing every Thursday the crystalglass that I poured it into the
  
  (22:46):
  slice of lime, the chink of theice out of the freezer.
  The gin, the tonic, leaningback against the kitchen counter
  and taking that first thirstygulp and thinking that it felt
  so fabulous.
  So I would say that part of mydrinking was habit.
  Say that part of my drinkingwas habit.
  
  (23:07):
  Um, there was another part ofmy drinking that was about the
  let loose girlfriends, cocktails, dinner out type drinking.
  Um, and definitely there wasanother type of drinking.
  Funnily enough, it's theanniversary this week of one of
  my best friend's husbands.
  Um died in 2019 and the worstglass of wine I ever drank in my
  life was at the wake after hisfuneral and that you know.
  
  (23:32):
  I now recognize all the emotionthat was.
  It probably was a rough glassof wine anyway, but all of the
  emotion that was tied up in thattime and how completely and
  utterly devastated andemotionally bankrupt I felt at
  that moment and how I thoughtthat the alcohol might have
  taken the edge off what wasgoing on.
  And of course we know how thestory ends, probably because I
  
  (23:55):
  did not stop at one glass ofwine on that occasion.
  For me it was really useful inthe beginning looking at which
  were the habits and findinggentle ways to start unpicking
  that.
  So if I give my Thursday gin andtonic habit, I hadn't
  recognized just how dehydrated Iwas on an average day and I was
  
  (24:15):
  at that point in my life I wasnot drinking enough water, um,
  and so I made a very consciousshift to make sure, before I
  left the office to drive home, Iwas drinking 500 milliliters of
  water.
  On the way home, I was drinkinga bottle of water, and what a
  huge difference it made to notfeeling incredibly thirsty come
  
  (24:36):
  five, six o'clock when I wascooking dinner, and I also made
  sure to start eating a reallydecent snack at 4pm in the
  afternoon also made sure tostart eating a really decent
  snack at 4pm in the afternoon.
  So what that really beautifullydid was take the edge off that
  five, six o'clock drink pouringtime that I wasn't wanting to
  
  (24:57):
  chew my arm off because I wasstarving, hungry and I was
  feeling really well hydrated.
  So that was about taking careof myself earlier on in the day
  to protect five, six o'clockversion of myself, and what I
  then did was swap out the ginfor alcohol-free gin, and what
  it turned out was a lot of thatdrink.
  
  (25:19):
  Boring time was about the ritual, almost the ceremony, of that.
  This is my moment in thekitchen now.
  This is me changing gear on myday.
  This is me going from work intohome mode and just making that
  switch.
  It turned out it was less aboutthe alcohol and more about the
  
  (25:40):
  being present with who I was inthat moment.
  And then I guess for some ofthe other areas in my life where
  I was considering what Ithought drinking was doing for
  me was considering, for example,the who nights out type of
  drinking.
  Was I actually really enjoyingthose activities anyway?
  
  (26:03):
  Really enjoying thoseactivities anyway?
  So was I perhaps drinking tomake a slightly intolerable
  social situation tolerable?
  Was I actually better off justnot going to that event in the
  first place, because I didn'treally want to go in the first
  place?
  So exercising my no musclebecame useful.
  Um, and.
  
  (26:23):
  I guess, around some of theheavier stuff you know, using
  alcohol to take the edge offthings.
  You know, alcohol it really.
  They say one of the best thingsabout stopping drinking is
  feeling your feelings and one ofthe worst things about stopping
  drinking is feeling yourfeelings.
  So, yeah, for me, a a journeythat has taken many different
  
  (26:47):
  avenues over the last five yearshas involved getting closer to
  some of that stuff which attimes has felt really
  uncomfortable, really edgy, butI think I'm more in touch with a
  more authentic version ofmyself than I was perhaps before
  .
  
  Christina Smith (27:06):
  I love that you say that, because when we think
  about it, we know that alcoholnumbs right.
  That's why some of us drink isto self-medicate, to become numb
  to whatever's going on.
  But when we do that, we alsolose the access to the feelings
  that we really crave, which islove, joy, happiness.
  We're also numbing that, soit's like it's really kind of
  
  (27:30):
  counter defeating.
  You know, it's counterintuitiveto what, what we actually could
  be doing, which, again, yeah,the hardest and the best part,
  I'm sure, is feeling yourfeelings again.
  And that can be reallychallenging, if you know, for
  women who have gone years andyears and years without doing
  that, and and I so relate to thehabit it's like, oh, it's six
  
  (27:52):
  o'clock, you know it's okay tohave a cocktail now, and it's
  like, and that's what I could bedoing for the rest of the night
  If I'm not conscious of justbeing like well, what else would
  I want to do?
  Like you're saying, sarah, likewhat else would I want to do?
  Maybe I don't want to go tothese networking cocktail
  parties, maybe I would rather gosit in a book club, but I
  
  (28:13):
  wouldn't do that while I wasdrinking, because reading and
  drinking at the same timedoesn't seem nearly as much fun,
  does it?
  But I can be more intellectualwhen I'm not drinking and I read
  a lot more.
  So how lovely Cause.
  It's like you really got toknow yourself, and what is it
  that I actually like, instead ofjust going in this mundane
  
  (28:36):
  pattern of like okay, have thecocktail, it's Thursday night
  time to go out to dinner with myfriends, all of that.
  How about you?
  
  Laura Valvasori (28:44):
  Laura, I think I agree with all of what Sarah
  shared.
  I think that I would addthinking about your mindset in
  the beginning is reallyimportant, because I think that
  coming at it from a place ofcuriosity and being like an
  outside observer to your ownbehaviors can be really helpful.
  
  (29:05):
  So when you're talking aboutthose habits that are like the
  drinking without thinking, theritual of, I just come home on a
  Friday night and pour a drink,because that's what I always do,
  noticing that you do that andthen understanding what is it
  that I'm actually trying toachieve in this, as you said,
  like the shift of the day.
  Or for me it might have beensitting down with my husband and
  pouring a glass of winetogether and it's the connection
  
  (29:26):
  that I was looking for.
  So, similar to you, I have alot of non-alcoholic
  alternatives and it's more aboutwhat's.
  It's not about what's in myglass, it's about what is
  created.
  So we use alcohol in kind of twoscenarios.
  One is that the happy,celebrating, connecting,
  belonging, and then there's thecoping and dealing with life.
  
  (29:48):
  So for me, the happycelebrating that sense of
  belonging, for me non-alcoholicreplacements have been
  supportive and for some people,particularly if there's an
  addiction problem, that's notalways recommended but for me,
  from a wellness perspective, itgives me a lot of ability to
  
  (30:08):
  still connect with people, feellike I'm a part of it, still
  stay within kind of thecelebration of what it is, and
  then on the other side, on thecoping, you're right, all the
  feelings come up and there's alot of different types of
  well-being practices that cansupport you to deal with those
  things instead of turning to theglass of wine or the beer or
  
  (30:29):
  whatever your drink of choice is.
  So in my program I broughtpeople in to help people
  understand some of the differentmodalities, like bite-sized
  little practices of meditationand yoga and hypnosis and
  tapping and all different thingsthat you can just have like a
  quick little thing that you canturn to if you're trying to deal
  
  (30:50):
  with a stressful situation.
  Or simple things like having abath instead of going and doing
  having a drink to try to calmyour nervous system if you've
  had some kind of argument withsomeone or something.
  So I think that I would alwaysadvise people to just remember
  to stay curious and not and notbeat yourself up, so you might
  
  (31:12):
  have a drink at the beginningwhen you're trying to nod and if
  you think well, now I've failedand I might as well not even
  keep going.
  No, that's actually justevidence.
  That's just an experience thatyou had.
  Okay, well, why did I do that?
  Like?
  What was it that drove thatbehavior?
  So just continuing to learn andgive yourself some grace as you
  go through the process and juststaying curious and open.
  
  Christina Smith (31:35):
  I love that you say about the having the wine
  with your husband and like andbeing really mindful about why
  you're drinking, cause somepeople think that all you have
  to do is replace that with anon-alcoholic drink and like.
  Of course that fixes it.
  But a lot of people, a lot ofus I'll speak for myself, maybe
  
  (31:55):
  me like I know, like, for mealcohol is the quickest way to
  get there, right, and and if Idon't use my tools, I can easily
  say I need that alcohol, but Ilove how you're like.
  But you have to know exactlywhat you're looking for.
  You weren't looking for a buzz,you were looking for connection
  in some times, right, and Ithink a lot of us aren't looking
  
  (32:17):
  for the buzz, like some of us,like you said, when it gets to
  coping, just trying to shut downthose feelings, when really you
  know what is it that thosefeelings really want.
  They want us to look at themand go, wow, what's coming up
  for me and why is this coming upfor me?
  And so having the help of acoach or a therapist or somebody
  
  (32:39):
  who can help you kind of lookat those feelings, even like a
  women's circle, finding betterways to manage those feelings
  might be just all that you need,or or finding you know why.
  Why is it that I'm drinking?
  So that's what I'm hearing isthe biggest step is just to be
  
  (32:59):
  start becoming mindful of, likeyou know, as I'm reaching for
  that glass of wine like why?
  Why am I reaching for thisglass of wine right now Instead,
  instead of you know doing x, yor z instead and really finding
  out what is the underlying thing, not just the oh well, you know
  , it's like it's five o'clock.
  
  (33:20):
  That's not the only reasonyou're grabbing that alcohol,
  right?
  
  Sarah Williamson (33:25):
  yeah, it's so easy, isn't it, just to say, oh,
  it's because it's five o'clock,instead of the truth of the
  situation.
  And I really remember feelingquite full of, I think, probably
  shame and guilt around what oneof my big emotions that I was
  struggling with at the time wasone around isolation and
  
  (33:46):
  loneliness.
  Isolation and loneliness, and aonline sober community that I
  was in I used to see that peoplewould post ideas of things to
  do at five o'clock or sixo'clock, essentially in
  fractions, um, and it might sayyou know, there might be a list
  of somebody saying, oh, theseare the things that I do to help
  me, and I go for a run aroundthe block or I put on my
  
  (34:11):
  favorite TV show, or I get inthe bath or I light a scented
  candle or da-da-da-da-da, andbecause I couldn't say or
  wouldn't say out loud, but I'mfeeling really lonely, great
  idea.
  So I take somebody's idea of adistraction and I hop in the
  bath, because that then kicksthe can down the alley.
  
  (34:31):
  I might stop thinking about theglass of wine while I'm in the
  bath, but then I get out of thebath and I'm still lonely.
  I'm just wet and lonely insteadof lonely.
  So it's really easy to kind oftake other people's I'm not
  saying other people's adviceisn't a great idea but to take
  
  (34:54):
  it unedited, without applying itto your own situation.
  
  Christina Smith (34:58):
  So I would say, yes, you know, develop that
  amazing toolkit of the thingsthat you really are knowing are
  going to help you, butspecifically with the things
  that you're wanting to addressand perhaps not wanting to admit
  to publicly and yes, I knowexactly how that feels yeah,
  
  (35:18):
  yeah, yeah, I think we do it todisguise a lot of our discomfort
  , whatever form that comes intoright, whether that's loneliness
  or grief or sadness or anger orstress from the day, but it's
  very easy just to oh well, it'sFriday, of course, you know,
  
  (35:38):
  like, of course, I'm having acocktail instead of going.
  Well, why is it that on Fridays, I feel like I need a cocktail
  and what am I trying to solvethere?
  I think that's really true forjust about any and, again, this
  doesn't have to be an addiction,but anything that we do
  mindlessly, right, any habitthat we have mindlessly, that is
  
  (36:00):
  possibly, you know, not helpingus.
  This has been a very lovelyconversation and I love that
  it's not all about justreplacing it with a
  non-alcoholic drink, because Iit's so much deeper than that.
  You know what I mean.
  Like I love, I love thatthere's so many options out
  there for mocktails anddifferent things.
  
  (36:21):
  Like I think that that's verylovely and I think that makes it
  easier for the, for those of uswho, like, choose to, you know,
  do the non-alcoholic route.
  And what I'm hearing is it'sdeeper than that.
  Like there's, even if you don'thave a serious addiction,
  there's, you know, a habitthat's being formed and we're
  trying to get something out ofit, and so figuring out what
  
  (36:43):
  that underlying piece is isgoing to be more helpful than
  trying to white knuckle througha Friday night and be like I'm
  not having a cocktail tonight,so, um.
  So, before we go, I do want youeach to offer one piece of
  wisdom or one takeaway that youwant um people to take with them
  
  (37:04):
  and then share with us howpeople can reach you and why,
  and all that good stuff aboutyou and know that all of your
  links are going to be below, soyou don't have to spell them all
  out for me, but they will bebelow.
  So if you hear something fromLaura or Sarah that you really
  connect with, click on theirlinks below.
  
  (37:25):
  How about you, laura?
  
  Laura Valvasori (37:27):
  So I think my my last piece of wisdom would be
  to really tune into what'sright for you.
  I think that sometimes we wantto do things with friends or
  have somebody that we want to beaccountable with, or like when,
  at the beginning of my journey,when I was starting to feel
  
  (37:47):
  like this was something I neededto do, I went to my best friend
  and said I feel like maybe weshould stop drinking for a
  little while.
  And she was like why?
  I'm like, well, I just feellike maybe it's not great.
  And she's like I feel fine.
  She wasn't at the point that Iwas at, and if I had let that
  stop me and not done what wasintuitively being triggered
  
  (38:08):
  inside of me, I would have nevergone down this road.
  So I think that listening toyour own wisdom is really,
  really important, and you knowwhen you're at the point where
  this is something that you wantto explore.
  So to find me, you can find meon Instagram at Laura underscore
  Galvasori, and I'll drop a linkbelow to a free guide.
  
  (38:30):
  I have to non-alcoholic drinksthat don't suck, because I've
  tried lots of them and there'smany that do suck, and so that's
  just an easy little piece forsomeone to start with, and if
  you're interested in the StillMe but Alcohol-Free program,
  it's a six-week program and it'savailable as a self-study, so
  you can join at any time and gothrough it as a self-study.
  So you can join it anytime andgo through it as a self-guided
  
  (38:51):
  experience, or the next roundwill be in mid-January, to take
  us through dry February.
  
  Christina Smith (38:58):
  Beautiful.
  Thank you, laura, and.
  
  Sarah Williamson (39:00):
  Sarah, my piece of advice would be a place
  of acceptance around the ideathat other people care less than
  we think they do.
  So, yes, absolutely, laura, youwith that, you know getting
  yourself in the centre of youridea.
  But also, I wish I'd have knownfor a past version of me that
  
  (39:25):
  lots of the stuff I was gettingcaught up in my head around what
  will other people think aboutme, what will other people say
  to me, actually don't matter asmuch as I thought they did, and
  also I probably thought otherpeople were thinking about me a
  lot more than they really were.
  Most people are really justthinking about themselves most
  
  (39:48):
  of the time.
  That is normal.
  Are really just thinking aboutthemselves most of the time.
  That is normal, how life shouldbe.
  Um, so that would be my piece ofwisdom.
  Um, I am at um, instagram, atdrink less, live better.
  My book and my podcast are alsodrink less, live better.
  Um, and if you hop across to mywebsite of the same namecom, um
  
  (40:09):
  , I have a free five-day drinkless experiment, which gives
  loads of tips, advice, startingpoints for all of the stuff that
  we've been talking about today.
  
  Christina Smith (40:19):
  Lovely, and all those links will be below.
  I think what I'm going to takeaway is that one thing that
  Laura said about like noticingwhat are the symptoms or the
  struggles, the challenges thatyou're having, like with the
  sleep and the anxiety, and likeactually listing them out and
  then cause I journal every day,but I don't know that I
  
  (40:41):
  necessarily am like, oh well,how was my anxiety, how was my
  sleep, how was?
  And so, just to be able totrack those things and, you know
  , compare that to the timeswhere I'm not drinking and maybe
  the times that I am, and justbecoming more mindful about wow,
  look how this changes on thosenights where I choose to drink
  
  (41:10):
  one more piece to that.
  
  Laura Valvasori (41:11):
  I have one more piece to your journaling
  exercises.
  It was super powerful for me.
  I started documenting everytime I had a positive experience
  not drinking, because I wasreally mindful of trying to
  shift my mind to focus on allthe good things that were
  happening.
  And so every little experiencethat I got through, or every
  positive little thing, I wroteit down in a journal.
  And going back to that journal.
  That's a really powerful thing,because you're always trying to
  
  (41:32):
  keep your mind focused on whatyou're gaining versus what
  you're losing, so I wouldsuggest adding a little piece to
  your package.
  
  Christina Smith (41:38):
  Yeah that was really beautiful because I would
  tell my clients the same thing,Like one of the things I have
  them them.
  A journal is three things youcelebrate about yourself, not
  gratitude, but what do youcelebrate about yourself?
  So this is another way of likewhat do you, what are you
  celebrating?
  What are you getting out ofthis?
  A good night's sleep Like oh,wow.
  I actually had a really goodmoment out and because I was
  
  (42:02):
  sober, I was conscious ofwhatever and I could take care
  of whatever and that's reallyawesome.
  Yeah, that's really awesome tothink about, and maybe I won't
  be as lonely because morefriends will call me, because
  they'll be like ah, you don'tdrink.
  
  Laura Valvasori (42:16):
  You can be our designated driver or whatnot,
  yeah.
  
  Christina Smith (42:23):
  Beautiful addition.
  Well, thank you both for beinghere today.
  This has been such a lovelyconversation and such a easeful
  one.
  I always get like a littlenervous when it's like, oh, I
  don't incorporate that habit yet, but it's just been really
  sweet to see that it doesn'thave to be like the story of how
  I went down the drain andpulled myself back out.
  
  (42:45):
  This could just be really ahealthy choice for ourselves.
  So thank you and thank you,audience, for tuning in.
  We'll see you again next week.