Tina Welling is a local author who has been living in Jackson for 40 years. In this episode, she shares her journey of moving to Wyoming with her family from Ohio to be closer to nature and to become part of a tight-knit community. Tina talks about her experience running a gift shop in Snow King Resort for 25 years and how the off-seasons provided her with time to focus on her writing.
During the conversation, Tina discusses the sense of community she found in Jackson and how it influenced her writing. She describes her transition from writing novels to nonfiction and specifically mentions her book, 'Writing Wild,' which explores the connection between the natural world and personal creativity. Stephan asks Tina about her writing workshops with inmates at the Teton County Jail, and she shares her experiences and the insights she gained from working with them. Tina emphasizes the shared struggles between inmates and those on the outside, highlighting the importance of self-reflection and journaling as tools for self-discovery and personal growth.
The conversation also touches on Tina's most recent book, 'Tuesdays In Jail: What I Learned Teaching Journaling to Inmates.' She explains how journaling can help individuals work through their issues and gain self-knowledge. Tina mentions that while she hasn't focused much on promoting her book due to personal circumstances, she is grateful for winning the Nautilus Book Award in the memoir and personal journey category.
Overall, the podcast delves into Tina Welling's journey as an author, her experiences in Jackson, and the transformative power of journaling and self-reflection.
You can connect with Tina at this year's Jackson Hole Writers Conference (June 22-24) or by emailing tinawellingauthor@gmail.com. You can find Tina’s books at Valley Bookstore or Jackson Hole Book Trader.
This week's episode is supported in part by Teton County Solid Waste and Recycling, reminding residents and commercial businesses of Teton County’s food waste programs; the next frontier material in the quest to achieve the County’s goal to reduce, aiming for zero waste. More at TetonCountyWY.gov or at @RoadToZeroWaste.JH on Instagram.
Support also comes from The Jackson Hole Marketplace. The Deli at Jackson Hole Marketplace offers ready-made soups, sandwiches, breakfast burritos, and hot lunch specials. More at JHMarketplace.com
Want to be a guest on The Jackson Hole Connection? Email us at connect@thejacksonholeconnection.com. Marketing and editing support by Michael Moeri (michaelmoeri.com)
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Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
You are tuned into the Jackson hole,connection, sharing, fascinating stories
of people connected to Jackson Hole.
I am truly grateful for each ofyou for tuning in today and support
for this podcast comes from:
I'll begin today's episode witha quote from Jonathan Lockwood,
Huey, forgive others, not becausethey deserve forgiveness, but
(00:23):
because you deserve peace.
And I pulled this quote fromTina's recent book, which we will
hear about on today's episode.
And welcome to episode number 246.
And today's guest is the authorTina Welling, who recently came out
with the book, Tuesdays in Jail.
(00:45):
Originally from Ohio.
Tina moved to this valley with herfamily over 40 years ago when there
were still many dirt streets andmany of them didn't even have names.
A lot of Tina's book is about, thework that she did here in Teton County
with, the inmates about journaling.
And as a person who journals myself,I know the benefit from journaling.
(01:09):
But I've never approached journalingwith great purpose, and after speaking
with Tina and also reading her book,I feel as though I can bring more
purpose and value to my journaling.
I hope for you all that you, findsome value in it as well, her
book and, and this conversation.
after speaking with Tina, I realizedthat I need to allow myself, To visit my
(01:33):
inner self, which I've always struggledwith, and I am grateful for the work that
Tina has put together in this book thatshe created from all of those years of
contributing to our community, again,with those inmates in the Teton County,
jail, lots of years, and now with herbook, I feel we can all find peace,
(01:54):
purpose and meaning by allowing ourselvesto connect with our inner selves.
Tina, for joining me here todayat the Jackson Hole Connection.
It's delightful to be able tospend some time with you today.
I'm happy to be here Stefan.
Let's start off today, as I'vestarted off all the past episodes of
(02:17):
you sharing Where were you born andraised, and how did you land here in
Jackson and how long have you been here?
So I've lived in Jackson 40 years.
I was raised mostly inOhio, born in Toledo.
lived mostly in Cincinnati.
So we first came, uh, my husbandand I, and, and two sons to Wyoming.
He was the director of the WyomingCouncil the Arts for five years.
(02:42):
And one day we were hiking in Jacksonand I said, you know, should live in the
place they think is the most beautiful.
And he said, okay.
Hmm
so that's how we landed here.
We just Hope didn't work out, and it did.
so you and your husbandmoved here with two boys.
How old were your kidswhen you guys moved here?
I'm a really good mother, but Inever remember how old my children
(03:03):
are, but they were, you know, likein, um, early high school years,
And I, I love what you said.
If you're gonna live someplace, you mightas well love the outdoors and, uh, you
know, the climate of, of where it is.
so you've been here for 40 years.
What was Jackson like for you and yourfamily when you moved here 40 years ago?
(03:25):
Well, we moved here in the summertimeand we worked, John, my husband and I
for the, uh, music festival with MargotLing Tongue, and then that's when we
decided really loved the community.
We just loved the way the peopleuse first names way they were.
awake to everything.
(03:46):
And that's when, I particularlyfelt like I would really like to be
a part of the business community.
So we began, uh, looking aroundfor a small business that we could
buy and we, uh, ended up buying,small gift shop in Snow King Resort.
And at the time it was owned locallyand the shop was, we named it
Rosebud, and we had that for 25 years.
(04:08):
Our boys worked in it and.
My husband and I ran it and it was just,um, a really nice thing that one of
the better parts at the time was thatwe got to close it for two months in
the spring and two months in the fall,and that's when I would do my writing.
Ah, beautiful.
I want to get back to how youmentioned people using first names,
(04:30):
how that, how you leaned into that.
But before I do, I have a very curiousmind and I get off topic very easily.
So I'm gonna ask, when you all wererunning your gift shop at the snow
king, was that when was when theClint Eastwood movie was filmed?
and they shot some of it at Snow King.
(04:51):
No, it was after that.
It
was after that.
Okay
after that.
I was just very curious.
Yep.
let's go back to people were usingfirst names and you leaned into that.
Tell me what the meaningbehind that, that messages.
It was community.
So, you know, it's like mountainsare beautiful and I loved.
(05:13):
The wilderness and the way Ifelt in that for the first time.
the community, that sense ofpaying attention really struck
me, and it still does to this day.
just don't get too muchpast Jackson Hole community.
people that live here careabout others who live here.
(05:34):
And did you see that back in, so youguys were living living in Toledo?
Correct.
No, I was just born in Toledo.
Your
moved here from um, Cincinnati
Oh, I got that backwards.
My apologies.
My apologies.
So you've, you were not feelingthat you didn't, did you not see
that or feel that in Cincinnati?
(05:56):
It just wasn't a part of my life then.
I was a young mother and
Mm-hmm
I just was struck by the,the power of that here.
I think it is unique, yes.
And did that translate into your writing?
I don't know that it did particularly,um, writing's a very solitary, experience.
(06:16):
It's nice to have community around.
So I noticed that when I am deepinto a long writing project, I
like knowing the community's doinginteresting things and having events.
I just don't want to attend them.
, you know, I'm into my work.
I need to be solitary, but Ilike knowing all that's going on.
(06:37):
and with your writing, tell us,tell us about the genre of your,
your writing that you were doingthen, and what you're doing now.
So I began writing, uh,just about everything.
Actually, I worked at a radio stationbefore we moved to Jackson, so I
wrote commercials that were exactly. seconds long, not one second longer.
(07:01):
so I began writing poems thatyou could read in exactly 30
seconds, not one second longer.
then I finally just sort of, Moved intolonger and longer pieces, and I found
myself completely taken by the novel form.
my first three books are novels.
They were published by, penguinRandom House, after that I moved
(07:24):
into, , uh, writing nonfiction.
Uh, my next book was called WritingWild, it was about that relationship
between the natural world and ourown personal creative energy and how
we can learn about our per personalenergy from that of the natural world.
I found that I really liked livingin the When you're writing novels,
(07:50):
you're always looking through the.
, eyes of your characters andthere's kind of, a shield.
There's something to learn fromall of that, but there's also that
separates you a bit from reality.
Not being a writer, but being somebodywho reads, can certainly see that
perspective reading nonfiction, you kindof become those characters and being in
(08:15):
the, in the world of, The non-fictionworld where it's, it's the reality.
I, I certainly, you know, thefiction, the versus the non-fiction,
I certainly understand that difference
absolutely.
with writing about, in thewild, um, and that book.
So how many, Books have you written then?
Five.
(08:35):
My most recent book waspublished this past fall, and
it's called Tuesdays In Jail.
What I Learned teachingjournaling to inmates.
Where were you doingjournaling with inmates?
here at the Teton County Jail.
So I just started thatabout 11, 12 years ago.
went in on Tuesday nights and workedwith the inmates, mostly men, and,
(08:59):
um, did that for seven years beforeI just had this real strong urge to
what I was learning with other people.
So I began to write the book
Mm-hmm
in Jail.
Then after.
doing my journalingworkshops for seven years.
and are you still doingthose journaling workshops?
(09:21):
I stopped doing them this past winter.
I had some personal, um,interruptions in my life
Mm-hmm
also I experiencing a kind of, um, . Oh.
Just change in my thinking, realizing thatI needed, of like what I was saying about
writing fiction, I was looking at all the.
(09:42):
The things I was reading through the eyesof what I would be telling the inmates.
Hmm
all of the psychology books I wasreading for my own interest, I
found myself translating for theinmates or particular inmates in
particular issues they were having.
So once again, I was kind ofglancing off what I was learning
(10:05):
and I realized I need to.
Take that, um, more inwardly and thatcoincided with issues at the jail
that just, I couldn't quite change.
So I was, um, often repeating myself,constantly seeing new inmates and not
seeing the old ones for weeks later.
So there was a lack of continuityand it's just a situation that came
(10:29):
up and I couldn't do much about.
what did you learn from theinmates over all of those years?
Well, mainly I learned thatwe share the same issues.
You know, we're all strugglingwith the same kinds of things.
Anger, forgiveness ourselves and others.
Self-esteem.
That's a big issue for the inmates.
(10:49):
It's a big issue formost of us, I would say.
whatever with the inmates, I wouldend up going home and thinking, wait.
talking to myself there.
I I was sharing thatsame problem they have.
A more intense, difficult,struggle with these issues.
(11:10):
I get to have lots ofdistractions with my problems.
You know, it gets to be too much.
I can eat potato chips, I can turnon Netflix, I can read a novel.
It's not true with inmates.
They're just there themselves theirsadnesses their issues and angers and.
Abuses and memories withoutany kind of distraction.
(11:33):
and did the journaling offera distraction or what did the
journaling offer, I should say?
The journaling offered a chance to goinwards, you know, was a, a small library
the inmates, but that was really about it.
there's no real support for the problemsthat brought them to jail, which in
(11:57):
most cases, rooted in addiction, whichis rooted in typically childhood abuse.
So when we journaled, Iwould ask them questions that
drew their attention inward.
So that they could put language towhat was going on in their minds.
I would start every, every journalingworkshop with questions, five of them,
(12:20):
and then we would talk about the answers,what they wrote about those things.
No one was ever pressured to.
read aloud what they had written,but they all wanted to, which
was my first biggest surprise was
Hmm
they really wanted to talk and they werefine about talking about the inner that
they were experiencing with each other.
(12:42):
And so that was, that was quitean awakening for me and I wish
there were more opportunitiesfor that to happen for them.
appreciate your connection withpeople who are on the outside,
people who are not incarcerated.
We have the same issues aspeople who are incarcerated.
It's what our environment allowsand our resources allow us of
(13:05):
how to deal with those things.
curiously, because you mentioned.
We all have anger and sadness and, andmemories that are might not be pleasant.
what resources do people have thatyou are using with the inmates
can help people work throughthose issues that we all have?
(13:25):
Journaling.
Mm.
journaling, just starting with questionthat you don't necessarily expect
to have an answer for, but you'llgather more information about it.
This is how I feel.
Why do I feel like this?
What come up?
What feelings come up?
Just put language to it.
(13:46):
It's an amazing experience.
You just keep writing andwriting and writing, and you
learn more about yourself.
Self-knowledge is powerful.
It's what we all want.
We want to have a kind of personalpower, I think journaling is a
very good pathway toward that.
I agree . I started journalingseveral years ago and I don't get
(14:11):
to it every day, but I'd say threeto four days a week I get to it.
I'm probably harder on myself for notdoing it every day, it is an opportunity
for me to just put down thoughts.
I like what you, you said is just startingwith a question that you don't have the
answer to and that's a great advice as,as far as a way to begin versus saying,
(14:36):
well, I don't know what to journal about.
We can overcomplicate it at times.
So let's talk about your book.
Well, first of all, can I justsay please don't start your
journaling, feeling guilty.
There's no reason to have tojournal any more than you do.
I let weeks go by before I journal.
Sometimes I journal when I have an issuethat I just can't figure out, or a feeling
(15:01):
that bothers me or a relationship issue.
I just do it when I need to.
So use it as a gift.
ever connect guilt or shame withjournaling, unless that's what you
wanna write about, and maybe that's agood thing for your next next session.
thank you, Tina.
I I appreciate those, those kind words.
(15:23):
very helpful.
We can all give ourselves a little grace.
Yes.
Yes.
So your, your book, long hasTuesday's in Jail been out?
Uh, it was released at the end ofSeptember, this past September.
And tell me about how it's beenreceived with the general public.
you're a local author, butyou've written many books.
(15:45):
What's been going on since youre released it in September?
I released it in September and Ihad to move the 1st of October.
So I'm afraid that a lot ofpromotion has just been set aside.
have a wonderful publishingcompany, new World Library, and a
publicist that works with me there.
And so thanks to her.
She set up many things for meto do, but uh, life has just
(16:09):
been, um, little chaotic.
Since the book was released and,promotion is not my favorite part.
The writing is my favorite part.
Talking about the book, Ilove to talk about the book.
I love to talk about inmates andjournaling and creative energy.
to just push a book, hmm, you know,I'm not so good at that and it
(16:31):
doesn't interest me, and I'm afraid Idon't even follow the sales numbers.
Well, you, I think, wonan award for the book.
Yes, I did.
I won Nautilus book award and, andI'm really pleased about that because,
it's, a prize for the category ofmemoir and personal journey, is just
exactly what Tuesday's in jail is.
(16:53):
It's very much.
A memoir, very much my personal journeywhile I'm talking all the time about
the inmates, and I like the ideathat, Nautilus book awards are about.
creating a better world.
I think their, motto is betterbooks for a better World.
And so their subjects are always,conscious living, spiritual growth,
(17:15):
community, that kind of thingthat, they have for their category.
So yeah, I'm pleased and I get ashiny gold sticker for my book.
my friends I was gonna wearit on my forehead for a while.
I think you should
I, I think you should.
And you said that you love talkingabout your book and, um, you
(17:35):
love talking about the inmates.
Have you heard of this type of programthat you had started here happening
in, in other, uh, jails as well?
No, I haven't.
I hadn't heard of that.
I Googled, I tried tofind information for that.
of course, do have somecreative writing programs.
(17:56):
Again, I never encountered anyjournaling programs, but they have
inmates who are incarcerated foryears and years, county jails.
at least the Teton County Jail.
The longest anyone is incarceratedis one year any longer than that.
If their sentence is any longerthan that, they are sent elsewhere.
So, people come and go.
(18:18):
They're there typically for months.
I don't know where I got the idea really.
I can go back and rememberwhen it occurred to me.
I was sitting on my porch swingreading a lot of Joseph Campbell.
the hero's journey and thatcenterpiece that he refers
to as the belly of the whale.
When we are just kind of cut off fromour usual way of knowing ourselves.
(18:41):
We're new parents, we're takingcare of our elderly parents.
We've moved someplace new,or we've begun a new job.
It's a situation in which wejust don't know ourselves.
Struck me as being theepitome of incarceration.
You know, the inmates are just strippedof their clothes, their jewelry.
(19:03):
they go in with, total strangers,no friends, no family around or else
they're totally alone and they don'tknow themselves in that situation.
And so the only thing thatyou can do is go inward.
And at the time I was journaling alot and I was going inward a lot.
And so I just put the twothoughts together and jumped in.
(19:26):
that's beautiful.
Tina you mentioned that you've heardthere's creative writing in some,
um, in some jail prison systems.
help us understand the differencebetween creative writing
those programs and journaling?
I'm not familiar with the programs.
I'm not familiar with prisons, but Ican tell you the difference between
(19:48):
creative writing and journaling.
I've been a faculty member of the JacksonHole Writers Conference for 20 some years,
and I'll be doing a workshop this coming.
Session, um, the end ofJune about memoir writing.
Creative writing is, even when it'smemoir, even when it's biography, you
are opening up to your imagination.
(20:11):
the same thing reallyhappens with journaling.
We're always using our imagination,but journaling is very creative
writing is just has a wider field.
journaling is about our inner lives.
So the inmates would want to talk aboutwhy they were jailed what wrong with
(20:32):
the police officer who arrested them, Ialways just direct them to the inner life
because that's what journaling's about.
That's what life is about.
It's where everything really happens.
Whether.
Um, you're in jail orwhether you're not in jail.
It's the inner life that guides usall, I think so many of us are not
comfortable being there, but whenyou're in jail, have nowhere else to go.
(20:57):
so that's why I just feltlike journaling was real.
tool to get someplace there.
You know, what kind of guidance forthat inner world that just around their
heads with repeated stories misery andabuse and sadness and horror sometimes.
Mm.
(21:17):
Do you have some stories or a story?
which you would want to sharewith us, that, has moved you.
I could read you a page story from my book
Okay.
you like.
So Tina, before we do that, we'regonna do take a quick break to get
(21:38):
a word from one of our sponsors
Okay
then we'll get into you sharing oneof those stories outta your book.
I
Hey Tina, tinaback, and as wediscussed, journaling is very personal.
you mentioned, it's about sharing what'sin our inner life, and you're gonna
(21:59):
share with us, a story of what movedyou, one that moved you, um, your book.
So you take it from here.
Okay.
It happens to be the last chapter inthe book, and it's just two pages long.
Aaron was in his mid twenties,built strongly with dark
hair, cut short and blue eyes.
(22:20):
That didn't seem to miss much.
was the second time he'd beenincarcerated here for domestic battery.
Both times accused by the same woman.
first time Aaron was jailed for aweek, released on a Friday, arrested
again the following Tuesday.
This second time he was put in maximumduring Aaron's visit down to see me.
(22:40):
He was spewing anger.
His body shifted restlesslyon the plastic chair.
written all over the walls ofthat stupid ass dinky cell and
ipace from one piece of shit.
I've penciled it eyelevel to the next one.
Hmm?
I said.
Sounds kind of like walking meditation,except the goal is to feel calm inside
instead of Aaron's body stilled.
(23:03):
What's walking?
Meditation.
I stood up on my side of thelockdown graded room and showed him
how to walk mindfully, slow steps.
Attention directed inwardly.
didn't come down for thefollowing Tuesday night workshop.
When that happened, I tried not to judgemyself about having failed to say the
right things when I had the chance.
then he came to see methe week after that.
(23:25):
I erased all the shittycrap I wrote on my walls.
He said, you did?
Yeah.
Now I've got four things written.
One on each wall.
like strong, be calm, and now I'mdoing more, like you were saying.
What's that?
I asked.
I'm doing a walking meditation.
I walk from one saying toanother, over and over.
(23:47):
nodded and smiled.
I'm feeling pretty good.
This is what I find wonderfulabout understanding.
There are really no opposites.
one place, for example, where cold becomeshot, but rather a continuum, one step,
one degree on the continuum for whatdoes not work for us to what does That
was how Aaron moved from Fury to calm.
(24:08):
weeks later, when he was releasedfrom Max and able to join the
regular workshop, he was referringto himself as a man in need of help.
And he was taking steps to get it.
This is why I continued volunteeringat the jail on Tuesday nights.
Who else got the witness?
This kind of uplifting event Everyweek Realization WA Wash Across Faces.
(24:29):
saw Insight Widen, eyes caughtfeatures softened when the men were
encouraged to offer self-compassion.
I did was merely nodtoward a light switch.
The inmates themselves flipped it on.
Campbell said, your sacred space is whereyou can find yourself again and again.
made jail Aaron's sacred space and mine.
(24:51):
Tina, thank you for sharing.
Thank you for asking.
You recommended to Erin.
Mindful walking did I say that correctly?
Yes.
I'm hearing you're very aware ofdifferent practices for mindfulness.
are you introduced to, to that thought?
(25:11):
I think I've always been interested in,spiritual energy and, and just what might
not be terribly visible to all of us.
I lived in Cheyenne for fiveyears and during that time I
just happened upon a teacher.
Her name was Jeanie, she lived in acabin that she had built out of stone,
(25:33):
on the, top ridge of the, Of a canyon inLoveland, outside of Loveland, Colorado.
So an hour and a half driveevery Wednesday to see her,
an hour and a half back.
And she just talked about,sort of universal spirituality.
And from there, um, once we movedhere to Jackson, I found a lot of, a
(25:56):
lot from the, the wildness around us.
You know, I began tojust hike all by myself.
I was really afraid, but I just madea point to go into all the canyons
and hike, and that did a lot for me.
And then I encountered, Buddhistteacher, which taught me how to meditate.
So just kind of went on and on.
I did, I've done lotsof, meditation retreats.
(26:19):
I do a lot of reading.
It's, what I care about.
Can we talk about the Buddhist teacher?
Was that something here intown or you search that?
Oh, it was
Okay
Yes.
And you said the Buddhistteacher taught you what again?
Meditation.
Meditation.
Mm-hmm
What you learned fromthe Buddhist teacher.
(26:42):
tell me more about what youlearned in that, in the meditation.
I'd say I learned to becomfortable with silence.
I am learning to becomfortable with not knowing.
We don't really know what's going on.
That was something that was a very bigpiece in my journaling workshops with the.
Inmates because they were alwaysin this situation not knowing
(27:05):
when they could go to court, whatwould happen to them in court.
learned that, this is part of theBuddhist teachings that we do need
to be comfortable with not knowingbecause that is the reality.
So I think what Buddhism, and reallythe wisdom teachers, I'd rather widen
that field into wisdom teachers,taught me is to face reality.
(27:31):
The hard parts, the glorious parts, andwork at being comfortable with both.
I think we can all use a lotof, those teachings and to
incorporate them in our lives.
Everything in today's world seems so andthe feeling or the emotions of having
(27:57):
or receiving an immediate response to.
Actions or thoughts and what youjust said about, being comfortable
with not knowing would allow us allto be okay with, some, some time.
Yes, I kind of trust in life capital L.
Yeah, think about how manypeople you make a post it.
(28:20):
It's become an addiction in some ways.
You make a post to some social mediaand you just need to keep watching your
post to see how many people respondto it or like it, or share it or love
it, or whatever platform you're using.
It's, it's changed.
it's the need that I need to take.
people taking selfies and, and sharingit with the west rest of the world or
(28:42):
where, what food you just ate or whereyou're going to get your shoes shined or
whatever, versus just being with yourself.
Yes, exactly.
I think that is just the outer worldversus the inner world, you know?
Mm-hmm
um, the outer world holds a lot of stress.
(29:02):
It's a, it's a world of.
Doing, and I'm talkingabout a world of being.
And when I'm talking to the inmates thatresonates because they can't do anything.
And it's very frustrating for them.
They feel like they're notearning money for their families.
not accomplishing anything at all.
They're just sitting there.
(29:22):
so they need to also be comfortablewith the inner world, with the
being, with the not knowing.
It's not easy.
It's not an easy place formost of us, but it gets
Why, why do you say it's not easy?
because we need to addressthe pain in our lives.
(29:43):
If we don't, I believe in the things I'mreading, the research I'm doing tells me
it goes into our bodies or we are puttingit out there into our relationships.
If we're not taking responsibility our ownpain, we're making others deal with it.
We're being angry people.
(30:04):
We're.
. I mean, happy people want to,to make other people happy.
Happy people are kind people, andif you're not a happy person, you're
trying to make others feel way you feel.
Kind of miserable inside.
Self-doubting, uncertain.
You know, all those.
Getting other people to feelthe pain that you're feeling.
(30:28):
That has, a, a big messagethere versus addressing the pain
that we're feeling ourselves.
Yes, that's true.
The component that I think a lotof people are missing is giving
ourselves a kind of kindness love.
When we are dealing with these painfulthings, we have to feel this pain.
(30:51):
We have to bring it up.
We have to recognize whereit's hitting us and our body.
What it's stirring in ourthoughts and our feelings.
And then we need to giveourselves kindness and love,
then we need to let it go.
And we need to do this same thing withthe same issue over and over and over.
(31:14):
what happens is that thatpain loses its charge,
Mm
we can deal with it ina more constructive way.
, we can understand it.
We can give ourselves understanding,and that's not the same thing
as giving ourselves excuses.
just saying, yes, was a hardtime in my life and I was in
(31:35):
confusion and I reacted this way.
I can do better next time.
I have that ability, I have that strengthto remember who we really are in there.
and it's hard, especially hardfor the inmates when from the time
they were little children lookingup to their parents or their
caretakers is the gods in their life.
(31:57):
were typically, and this was typicalover the thousands that I met, finding
abuse, finding indifference, findingthat that parent or caretaker was under
the influence of something or otherthat kept them from being present.
. And so the inmates that as a way to dealwith their pain, drink too much, take
(32:20):
drugs, and it was a way of numbing outto life because it was a survival tactic.
It was the only thing theycould do to stay alive.
Is what you're talking aboutaddressing the pain, acknowledging
it versus ignoring it.
Is that a way to end that cycle ofabuse, of neglect, of the issues that
(32:43):
might lead into somebody that you,because of all the people who you met,
were incarcerated to end that cycle.
I think.
So what I am reading supports that idea.
I keep encountering it.
Um, various, um, wisdomteachers, psychology.
think it's a good path.
(33:05):
It's working for me.
Mm-hmm.
In addition to reading your books thatyou've produced, that you've created
and are sh sharing, are there a fewbooks that you would want to recommend
to someone to read that helps withthis, of how to address this pain that
(33:27):
we all have and to acknowledge it?
So it doesn't become somethingburied, and it allows us to be good
citizens in life and help others
and share that happiness.
Well, yes, I feel like.
. I feel a certain reluctance insuggesting, spiritual books because
(33:48):
I feel like I would rather somebodyjust go into a bookstore and we've
got two beautiful ones here in
Mm-hmm
and just hiccup books.
Read the first paragraph or so,open it up in the middle, see
if it just resonates with you.
See if that voice, that wayof addressing, um, life.
(34:09):
, feels meaningful.
Um, otherwise, You know, for me,I read Eckhart, read Pam Schroen.
I read so many different, different books.
I have stacks of them allaround, and I don't even start
on page one and go through.
I'll start on page one and thenI'll go to another book and see what
they might say about that subject.
(34:30):
But, um, as far as just dealingwith our pain and how it, it.
We go into denial andhow it affects our body.
I really admire Gabo mate's work.
He has, uh, books about addiction.
He has a book about a d d, he has a bookabout, His, that's his, uh, newest one.
(34:50):
He has about a book about, How thebody says no, which is his, manuscript
about denying things in our life andpushing them down into our bodies
and our bodies, then express them.
so yeah, there's, there's a lotof wonderful books out there and I
think Abord be great to start with.
I think Eckhart totally.
(35:11):
It'd be great to start with.
I've, I've read EckhartToley, one of his books.
this is new for me to hear.
Gabo Matte.
Yes.
Could you spell Matt mate for me?
M A T e Mark on the E
M a
t
T E.
e with accent.
Beautiful
(35:31):
Thank you Tina.
I love sharing quotes and from booksthat I read and sharing, I created a
library here and share it with pe myfriends and people that I work with.
And I think sharing books is, A beautifulway to help spread kindness in the world,
I agree.
(35:51):
and I appreciate you sharing some authors.
I also appreciate you sharing yourexperience and putting it in the format
of a book so we can all learn from yourexperience Learn from the brave people
who allowed themselves to be vulnerableand share their journal writings with you
(36:13):
and how you help them
That's the key.
Being vulnerable.
Hmm
Yeah.
As soon as we're vulnerable, we're kindof shunting aside our ego, which likes
to be in charge, which likes to post sooften as you were referring to, you know?
But if we, work on that sense ofwillingness to be vulnerable in the
(36:34):
world and with each other, that's abig, big leap in, in a single word.
Well said Tina, I thinkthat's a wonderful way to
end the conversation today.
And where can people find your book?
Tuesday in jail.
Tuesdays in jail.
Tuesday's in jail is at ValleyBookstore, right downtown across
(36:56):
the street from Persephone, andit's at the book Trader out on the
highway, and also in their, in Wilson.
Okay.
And when will people beginto see the medallion?
And you said that was the,what, what award again?
Was it
the Nautilus book Award, and
(37:17):
Nautilus
my shiny, um, circles to thestores today to slap on my book.
Proudly.
Yes.
Yes,
Proudly.
And Tina, if people wanted to connectwith you, what is a great way for people
to reach out and connect with you?
Well, I think, check into theJackson Hole Writer's conferences.
(37:37):
One way
Mm-hmm
open to, um, emails.
I'm Tina Welling, author@gmail.comand I always respond.
That's terrific.
Well, is there still availabilityfor people to join your, um, your
class that you will be leading, atthe writer's conference this year?
(37:59):
Yes, there is.
There are openings.
The Writer's Conference issomething I have been involved
in for 20 some years, just.
Probably a couple yearsafter they started.
First as a writer and just a volunteer,and then eventually got published and now
I get to be on the faculty and I teach.
So I'll be teaching a memoirworkshop, which will involve
(38:21):
mostly just writing a lot of thequestions that I use for the, inmates
workshops that will get us started.
It'll just be a couple hours onFriday night to on of June 23rd
to just write and write and write.
and I did get to interview TimSandlin, who I believe is involved,
or he was one of the
(38:41):
founders.
Yeah And it was a joy to be able to speakwith him, and it's been an absolute joy
to, to have this time with you, Tina.
I appreciate it.
Thank you s Stephan.
I enjoyed it thoroughly myself.
You're welcome.
Well, have a great day, Tina, andhave a successful and happy, writer's
conference and keep on makinga difference in people's lives.
(39:01):
Thank you, Ste.
You're welcome.
To learn more about Tina Welling and herbook Tuesdays in Jail, visit the jackson
hole connection.com, episode number 246.
Thank you everybody for listeningtoday Get out and share this
podcast with your friends andfamilies, Instagram and Facebook.
If you know, if somebody would liketo be a guest, send us their name.
(39:24):
We'd love to have.
Take care everybody.
Look forward to seeing you backhere for the next episode of
the Jackson Hole Connection.
You are tuned into the Jackson hole,connection, sharing, fascinating stories
of people connected to Jackson Hole.
I am truly grateful for each ofyou for tuning in today and support
for this podcast comes from:
I'll begin today's episode witha quote from Jonathan Lockwood,
Huey, forgive others, not becausethey deserve forgiveness, but
(00:23):
because you deserve peace.
And I pulled this quote fromTina's recent book, which we will
hear about on today's episode.
And welcome to episode number 246.
And today's guest is the authorTina Welling, who recently came out
with the book, Tuesdays in Jail.
(00:45):
Originally from Ohio.
Tina moved to this valley with herfamily over 40 years ago when there
were still many dirt streets andmany of them didn't even have names.
A lot of Tina's book is about, thework that she did here in Teton County
with, the inmates about journaling.
And as a person who journals myself,I know the benefit from journaling.
(01:09):
But I've never approached journalingwith great purpose, and after speaking
with Tina and also reading her book,I feel as though I can bring more
purpose and value to my journaling.
I hope for you all that you, findsome value in it as well, her
book and, and this conversation.
after speaking with Tina, I realizedthat I need to allow myself, To visit my
(01:33):
inner self, which I've always struggledwith, and I am grateful for the work that
Tina has put together in this book thatshe created from all of those years of
contributing to our community, again,with those inmates in the Teton County,
jail, lots of years, and now with herbook, I feel we can all find peace,
(01:54):
purpose and meaning by allowing ourselvesto connect with our inner selves.
Tina, for joining me here todayat the Jackson Hole Connection.
It's delightful to be able tospend some time with you today.
I'm happy to be here Stefan.
Let's start off today, as I'vestarted off all the past episodes of
(02:17):
you sharing Where were you born andraised, and how did you land here in
Jackson and how long have you been here?
So I've lived in Jackson 40 years.
I was raised mostly inOhio, born in Toledo.
lived mostly in Cincinnati.
So we first came, uh, my husbandand I, and, and two sons to Wyoming.
He was the director of the WyomingCouncil the Arts for five years.
(02:42):
And one day we were hiking in Jacksonand I said, you know, should live in the
place they think is the most beautiful.
And he said, okay.
Hmm
so that's how we landed here.
We just Hope didn't work out, and it did.
so you and your husbandmoved here with two boys.
How old were your kidswhen you guys moved here?
I'm a really good mother, but Inever remember how old my children
(03:03):
are, but they were, you know, likein, um, early high school years,
And I, I love what you said.
If you're gonna live someplace, you mightas well love the outdoors and, uh, you
know, the climate of, of where it is.
so you've been here for 40 years.
What was Jackson like for you and yourfamily when you moved here 40 years ago?
(03:25):
Well, we moved here in the summertimeand we worked, John, my husband and I
for the, uh, music festival with MargotLing Tongue, and then that's when we
decided really loved the community.
We just loved the way the peopleuse first names way they were.
awake to everything.
(03:46):
And that's when, I particularlyfelt like I would really like to be
a part of the business community.
So we began, uh, looking aroundfor a small business that we could
buy and we, uh, ended up buying,small gift shop in Snow King Resort.
And at the time it was owned locallyand the shop was, we named it
Rosebud, and we had that for 25 years.
(04:08):
Our boys worked in it and.
My husband and I ran it and it was just,um, a really nice thing that one of
the better parts at the time was thatwe got to close it for two months in
the spring and two months in the fall,and that's when I would do my writing.
Ah, beautiful.
I want to get back to how youmentioned people using first names,
(04:30):
how that, how you leaned into that.
But before I do, I have a very curiousmind and I get off topic very easily.
So I'm gonna ask, when you all wererunning your gift shop at the snow
king, was that when was when theClint Eastwood movie was filmed?
and they shot some of it at Snow King.
(04:51):
No, it was after that.
It
was after that.
Okay
after that.
I was just very curious.
Yep.
let's go back to people were usingfirst names and you leaned into that.
Tell me what the meaningbehind that, that messages.
It was community.
So, you know, it's like mountainsare beautiful and I loved.
(05:13):
The wilderness and the way Ifelt in that for the first time.
the community, that sense ofpaying attention really struck
me, and it still does to this day.
just don't get too muchpast Jackson Hole community.
people that live here careabout others who live here.
(05:34):
And did you see that back in, so youguys were living living in Toledo?
Correct.
No, I was just born in Toledo.
Your
moved here from um, Cincinnati
Oh, I got that backwards.
My apologies.
My apologies.
So you've, you were not feelingthat you didn't, did you not see
that or feel that in Cincinnati?
(05:56):
It just wasn't a part of my life then.
I was a young mother and
Mm-hmm
I just was struck by the,the power of that here.
I think it is unique, yes.
And did that translate into your writing?
I don't know that it did particularly,um, writing's a very solitary, experience.
(06:16):
It's nice to have community around.
So I noticed that when I am deepinto a long writing project, I
like knowing the community's doinginteresting things and having events.
I just don't want to attend them.
, you know, I'm into my work.
I need to be solitary, but Ilike knowing all that's going on.
(06:37):
and with your writing, tell us,tell us about the genre of your,
your writing that you were doingthen, and what you're doing now.
So I began writing, uh,just about everything.
Actually, I worked at a radio stationbefore we moved to Jackson, so I
wrote commercials that were exactly. seconds long, not one second longer.
(07:01):
so I began writing poems thatyou could read in exactly 30
seconds, not one second longer.
then I finally just sort of, Moved intolonger and longer pieces, and I found
myself completely taken by the novel form.
my first three books are novels.
They were published by, penguinRandom House, after that I moved
(07:24):
into, , uh, writing nonfiction.
Uh, my next book was called WritingWild, it was about that relationship
between the natural world and ourown personal creative energy and how
we can learn about our per personalenergy from that of the natural world.
I found that I really liked livingin the When you're writing novels,
(07:50):
you're always looking through the.
, eyes of your characters andthere's kind of, a shield.
There's something to learn fromall of that, but there's also that
separates you a bit from reality.
Not being a writer, but being somebodywho reads, can certainly see that
perspective reading nonfiction, you kindof become those characters and being in
(08:15):
the, in the world of, The non-fictionworld where it's, it's the reality.
I, I certainly, you know, thefiction, the versus the non-fiction,
I certainly understand that difference
absolutely.
with writing about, in thewild, um, and that book.
So how many, Books have you written then?
Five.
(08:35):
My most recent book waspublished this past fall, and
it's called Tuesdays In Jail.
What I Learned teachingjournaling to inmates.
Where were you doingjournaling with inmates?
here at the Teton County Jail.
So I just started thatabout 11, 12 years ago.
went in on Tuesday nights and workedwith the inmates, mostly men, and,
(08:59):
um, did that for seven years beforeI just had this real strong urge to
what I was learning with other people.
So I began to write the book
Mm-hmm
in Jail.
Then after.
doing my journalingworkshops for seven years.
and are you still doingthose journaling workshops?
(09:21):
I stopped doing them this past winter.
I had some personal, um,interruptions in my life
Mm-hmm
also I experiencing a kind of, um, . Oh.
Just change in my thinking, realizing thatI needed, of like what I was saying about
writing fiction, I was looking at all the.
(09:42):
The things I was reading through the eyesof what I would be telling the inmates.
Hmm
all of the psychology books I wasreading for my own interest, I
found myself translating for theinmates or particular inmates in
particular issues they were having.
So once again, I was kind ofglancing off what I was learning
(10:05):
and I realized I need to.
Take that, um, more inwardly and thatcoincided with issues at the jail
that just, I couldn't quite change.
So I was, um, often repeating myself,constantly seeing new inmates and not
seeing the old ones for weeks later.
So there was a lack of continuityand it's just a situation that came
(10:29):
up and I couldn't do much about.
what did you learn from theinmates over all of those years?
Well, mainly I learned thatwe share the same issues.
You know, we're all strugglingwith the same kinds of things.
Anger, forgiveness ourselves and others.
Self-esteem.
That's a big issue for the inmates.
(10:49):
It's a big issue formost of us, I would say.
whatever with the inmates, I wouldend up going home and thinking, wait.
talking to myself there.
I I was sharing thatsame problem they have.
A more intense, difficult,struggle with these issues.
(11:10):
I get to have lots ofdistractions with my problems.
You know, it gets to be too much.
I can eat potato chips, I can turnon Netflix, I can read a novel.
It's not true with inmates.
They're just there themselves theirsadnesses their issues and angers and.
Abuses and memories withoutany kind of distraction.
(11:33):
and did the journaling offera distraction or what did the
journaling offer, I should say?
The journaling offered a chance to goinwards, you know, was a, a small library
the inmates, but that was really about it.
there's no real support for the problemsthat brought them to jail, which in
(11:57):
most cases, rooted in addiction, whichis rooted in typically childhood abuse.
So when we journaled, Iwould ask them questions that
drew their attention inward.
So that they could put language towhat was going on in their minds.
I would start every, every journalingworkshop with questions, five of them,
(12:20):
and then we would talk about the answers,what they wrote about those things.
No one was ever pressured to.
read aloud what they had written,but they all wanted to, which
was my first biggest surprise was
Hmm
they really wanted to talk and they werefine about talking about the inner that
they were experiencing with each other.
(12:42):
And so that was, that was quitean awakening for me and I wish
there were more opportunitiesfor that to happen for them.
appreciate your connection withpeople who are on the outside,
people who are not incarcerated.
We have the same issues aspeople who are incarcerated.
It's what our environment allowsand our resources allow us of
(13:05):
how to deal with those things.
curiously, because you mentioned.
We all have anger and sadness and, andmemories that are might not be pleasant.
what resources do people have thatyou are using with the inmates
can help people work throughthose issues that we all have?
(13:25):
Journaling.
Mm.
journaling, just starting with questionthat you don't necessarily expect
to have an answer for, but you'llgather more information about it.
This is how I feel.
Why do I feel like this?
What come up?
What feelings come up?
Just put language to it.
(13:46):
It's an amazing experience.
You just keep writing andwriting and writing, and you
learn more about yourself.
Self-knowledge is powerful.
It's what we all want.
We want to have a kind of personalpower, I think journaling is a
very good pathway toward that.
I agree . I started journalingseveral years ago and I don't get
(14:11):
to it every day, but I'd say threeto four days a week I get to it.
I'm probably harder on myself for notdoing it every day, it is an opportunity
for me to just put down thoughts.
I like what you, you said is just startingwith a question that you don't have the
answer to and that's a great advice as,as far as a way to begin versus saying,
(14:36):
well, I don't know what to journal about.
We can overcomplicate it at times.
So let's talk about your book.
Well, first of all, can I justsay please don't start your
journaling, feeling guilty.
There's no reason to have tojournal any more than you do.
I let weeks go by before I journal.
Sometimes I journal when I have an issuethat I just can't figure out, or a feeling
(15:01):
that bothers me or a relationship issue.
I just do it when I need to.
So use it as a gift.
ever connect guilt or shame withjournaling, unless that's what you
wanna write about, and maybe that's agood thing for your next next session.
thank you, Tina.
I I appreciate those, those kind words.
(15:23):
very helpful.
We can all give ourselves a little grace.
Yes.
Yes.
So your, your book, long hasTuesday's in Jail been out?
Uh, it was released at the end ofSeptember, this past September.
And tell me about how it's beenreceived with the general public.
you're a local author, butyou've written many books.
(15:45):
What's been going on since youre released it in September?
I released it in September and Ihad to move the 1st of October.
So I'm afraid that a lot ofpromotion has just been set aside.
have a wonderful publishingcompany, new World Library, and a
publicist that works with me there.
And so thanks to her.
She set up many things for meto do, but uh, life has just
(16:09):
been, um, little chaotic.
Since the book was released and,promotion is not my favorite part.
The writing is my favorite part.
Talking about the book, Ilove to talk about the book.
I love to talk about inmates andjournaling and creative energy.
to just push a book, hmm, you know,I'm not so good at that and it
(16:31):
doesn't interest me, and I'm afraid Idon't even follow the sales numbers.
Well, you, I think, wonan award for the book.
Yes, I did.
I won Nautilus book award and, andI'm really pleased about that because,
it's, a prize for the category ofmemoir and personal journey, is just
exactly what Tuesday's in jail is.
(16:53):
It's very much.
A memoir, very much my personal journeywhile I'm talking all the time about
the inmates, and I like the ideathat, Nautilus book awards are about.
creating a better world.
I think their, motto is betterbooks for a better World.
And so their subjects are always,conscious living, spiritual growth,
(17:15):
community, that kind of thingthat, they have for their category.
So yeah, I'm pleased and I get ashiny gold sticker for my book.
my friends I was gonna wearit on my forehead for a while.
I think you should
I, I think you should.
And you said that you love talkingabout your book and, um, you
(17:35):
love talking about the inmates.
Have you heard of this type of programthat you had started here happening
in, in other, uh, jails as well?
No, I haven't.
I hadn't heard of that.
I Googled, I tried tofind information for that.
of course, do have somecreative writing programs.
(17:56):
Again, I never encountered anyjournaling programs, but they have
inmates who are incarcerated foryears and years, county jails.
at least the Teton County Jail.
The longest anyone is incarceratedis one year any longer than that.
If their sentence is any longerthan that, they are sent elsewhere.
So, people come and go.
(18:18):
They're there typically for months.
I don't know where I got the idea really.
I can go back and rememberwhen it occurred to me.
I was sitting on my porch swingreading a lot of Joseph Campbell.
the hero's journey and thatcenterpiece that he refers
to as the belly of the whale.
When we are just kind of cut off fromour usual way of knowing ourselves.
(18:41):
We're new parents, we're takingcare of our elderly parents.
We've moved someplace new,or we've begun a new job.
It's a situation in which wejust don't know ourselves.
Struck me as being theepitome of incarceration.
You know, the inmates are just strippedof their clothes, their jewelry.
(19:03):
they go in with, total strangers,no friends, no family around or else
they're totally alone and they don'tknow themselves in that situation.
And so the only thing thatyou can do is go inward.
And at the time I was journaling alot and I was going inward a lot.
And so I just put the twothoughts together and jumped in.
(19:26):
that's beautiful.
Tina you mentioned that you've heardthere's creative writing in some,
um, in some jail prison systems.
help us understand the differencebetween creative writing
those programs and journaling?
I'm not familiar with the programs.
I'm not familiar with prisons, but Ican tell you the difference between
(19:48):
creative writing and journaling.
I've been a faculty member of the JacksonHole Writers Conference for 20 some years,
and I'll be doing a workshop this coming.
Session, um, the end ofJune about memoir writing.
Creative writing is, even when it'smemoir, even when it's biography, you
are opening up to your imagination.
(20:11):
the same thing reallyhappens with journaling.
We're always using our imagination,but journaling is very creative
writing is just has a wider field.
journaling is about our inner lives.
So the inmates would want to talk aboutwhy they were jailed what wrong with
(20:32):
the police officer who arrested them, Ialways just direct them to the inner life
because that's what journaling's about.
That's what life is about.
It's where everything really happens.
Whether.
Um, you're in jail orwhether you're not in jail.
It's the inner life that guides usall, I think so many of us are not
comfortable being there, but whenyou're in jail, have nowhere else to go.
(20:57):
so that's why I just feltlike journaling was real.
tool to get someplace there.
You know, what kind of guidance forthat inner world that just around their
heads with repeated stories misery andabuse and sadness and horror sometimes.
Mm.
(21:17):
Do you have some stories or a story?
which you would want to sharewith us, that, has moved you.
I could read you a page story from my book
Okay.
you like.
So Tina, before we do that, we'regonna do take a quick break to get
(21:38):
a word from one of our sponsors
Okay
then we'll get into you sharing oneof those stories outta your book.
I
Hey Tina, tinaback, and as wediscussed, journaling is very personal.
you mentioned, it's about sharing what'sin our inner life, and you're gonna
(21:59):
share with us, a story of what movedyou, one that moved you, um, your book.
So you take it from here.
Okay.
It happens to be the last chapter inthe book, and it's just two pages long.
Aaron was in his mid twenties,built strongly with dark
hair, cut short and blue eyes.
(22:20):
That didn't seem to miss much.
was the second time he'd beenincarcerated here for domestic battery.
Both times accused by the same woman.
first time Aaron was jailed for aweek, released on a Friday, arrested
again the following Tuesday.
This second time he was put in maximumduring Aaron's visit down to see me.
(22:40):
He was spewing anger.
His body shifted restlesslyon the plastic chair.
written all over the walls ofthat stupid ass dinky cell and
ipace from one piece of shit.
I've penciled it eyelevel to the next one.
Hmm?
I said.
Sounds kind of like walking meditation,except the goal is to feel calm inside
instead of Aaron's body stilled.
(23:03):
What's walking?
Meditation.
I stood up on my side of thelockdown graded room and showed him
how to walk mindfully, slow steps.
Attention directed inwardly.
didn't come down for thefollowing Tuesday night workshop.
When that happened, I tried not to judgemyself about having failed to say the
right things when I had the chance.
then he came to see methe week after that.
(23:25):
I erased all the shittycrap I wrote on my walls.
He said, you did?
Yeah.
Now I've got four things written.
One on each wall.
like strong, be calm, and now I'mdoing more, like you were saying.
What's that?
I asked.
I'm doing a walking meditation.
I walk from one saying toanother, over and over.
(23:47):
nodded and smiled.
I'm feeling pretty good.
This is what I find wonderfulabout understanding.
There are really no opposites.
one place, for example, where cold becomeshot, but rather a continuum, one step,
one degree on the continuum for whatdoes not work for us to what does That
was how Aaron moved from Fury to calm.
(24:08):
weeks later, when he was releasedfrom Max and able to join the
regular workshop, he was referringto himself as a man in need of help.
And he was taking steps to get it.
This is why I continued volunteeringat the jail on Tuesday nights.
Who else got the witness?
This kind of uplifting event Everyweek Realization WA Wash Across Faces.
(24:29):
saw Insight Widen, eyes caughtfeatures softened when the men were
encouraged to offer self-compassion.
I did was merely nodtoward a light switch.
The inmates themselves flipped it on.
Campbell said, your sacred space is whereyou can find yourself again and again.
made jail Aaron's sacred space and mine.
(24:51):
Tina, thank you for sharing.
Thank you for asking.
You recommended to Erin.
Mindful walking did I say that correctly?
Yes.
I'm hearing you're very aware ofdifferent practices for mindfulness.
are you introduced to, to that thought?
(25:11):
I think I've always been interested in,spiritual energy and, and just what might
not be terribly visible to all of us.
I lived in Cheyenne for fiveyears and during that time I
just happened upon a teacher.
Her name was Jeanie, she lived in acabin that she had built out of stone,
(25:33):
on the, top ridge of the, Of a canyon inLoveland, outside of Loveland, Colorado.
So an hour and a half driveevery Wednesday to see her,
an hour and a half back.
And she just talked about,sort of universal spirituality.
And from there, um, once we movedhere to Jackson, I found a lot of, a
(25:56):
lot from the, the wildness around us.
You know, I began tojust hike all by myself.
I was really afraid, but I just madea point to go into all the canyons
and hike, and that did a lot for me.
And then I encountered, Buddhistteacher, which taught me how to meditate.
So just kind of went on and on.
I did, I've done lotsof, meditation retreats.
(26:19):
I do a lot of reading.
It's, what I care about.
Can we talk about the Buddhist teacher?
Was that something here intown or you search that?
Oh, it was
Okay
Yes.
And you said the Buddhistteacher taught you what again?
Meditation.
Meditation.
Mm-hmm
What you learned fromthe Buddhist teacher.
(26:42):
tell me more about what youlearned in that, in the meditation.
I'd say I learned to becomfortable with silence.
I am learning to becomfortable with not knowing.
We don't really know what's going on.
That was something that was a very bigpiece in my journaling workshops with the.
Inmates because they were alwaysin this situation not knowing
(27:05):
when they could go to court, whatwould happen to them in court.
learned that, this is part of theBuddhist teachings that we do need
to be comfortable with not knowingbecause that is the reality.
So I think what Buddhism, and reallythe wisdom teachers, I'd rather widen
that field into wisdom teachers,taught me is to face reality.
(27:31):
The hard parts, the glorious parts, andwork at being comfortable with both.
I think we can all use a lotof, those teachings and to
incorporate them in our lives.
Everything in today's world seems so andthe feeling or the emotions of having
(27:57):
or receiving an immediate response to.
Actions or thoughts and what youjust said about, being comfortable
with not knowing would allow us allto be okay with, some, some time.
Yes, I kind of trust in life capital L.
Yeah, think about how manypeople you make a post it.
(28:20):
It's become an addiction in some ways.
You make a post to some social mediaand you just need to keep watching your
post to see how many people respondto it or like it, or share it or love
it, or whatever platform you're using.
It's, it's changed.
it's the need that I need to take.
people taking selfies and, and sharingit with the west rest of the world or
(28:42):
where, what food you just ate or whereyou're going to get your shoes shined or
whatever, versus just being with yourself.
Yes, exactly.
I think that is just the outer worldversus the inner world, you know?
Mm-hmm
um, the outer world holds a lot of stress.
(29:02):
It's a, it's a world of.
Doing, and I'm talkingabout a world of being.
And when I'm talking to the inmates thatresonates because they can't do anything.
And it's very frustrating for them.
They feel like they're notearning money for their families.
not accomplishing anything at all.
They're just sitting there.
(29:22):
so they need to also be comfortablewith the inner world, with the
being, with the not knowing.
It's not easy.
It's not an easy place formost of us, but it gets
Why, why do you say it's not easy?
because we need to addressthe pain in our lives.
(29:43):
If we don't, I believe in the things I'mreading, the research I'm doing tells me
it goes into our bodies or we are puttingit out there into our relationships.
If we're not taking responsibility our ownpain, we're making others deal with it.
We're being angry people.
(30:04):
We're.
. I mean, happy people want to,to make other people happy.
Happy people are kind people, andif you're not a happy person, you're
trying to make others feel way you feel.
Kind of miserable inside.
Self-doubting, uncertain.
You know, all those.
Getting other people to feelthe pain that you're feeling.
(30:28):
That has, a, a big messagethere versus addressing the pain
that we're feeling ourselves.
Yes, that's true.
The component that I think a lotof people are missing is giving
ourselves a kind of kindness love.
When we are dealing with these painfulthings, we have to feel this pain.
(30:51):
We have to bring it up.
We have to recognize whereit's hitting us and our body.
What it's stirring in ourthoughts and our feelings.
And then we need to giveourselves kindness and love,
then we need to let it go.
And we need to do this same thing withthe same issue over and over and over.
(31:14):
what happens is that thatpain loses its charge,
Mm
we can deal with it ina more constructive way.
, we can understand it.
We can give ourselves understanding,and that's not the same thing
as giving ourselves excuses.
just saying, yes, was a hardtime in my life and I was in
(31:35):
confusion and I reacted this way.
I can do better next time.
I have that ability, I have that strengthto remember who we really are in there.
and it's hard, especially hardfor the inmates when from the time
they were little children lookingup to their parents or their
caretakers is the gods in their life.
(31:57):
were typically, and this was typicalover the thousands that I met, finding
abuse, finding indifference, findingthat that parent or caretaker was under
the influence of something or otherthat kept them from being present.
. And so the inmates that as a way to dealwith their pain, drink too much, take
(32:20):
drugs, and it was a way of numbing outto life because it was a survival tactic.
It was the only thing theycould do to stay alive.
Is what you're talking aboutaddressing the pain, acknowledging
it versus ignoring it.
Is that a way to end that cycle ofabuse, of neglect, of the issues that
(32:43):
might lead into somebody that you,because of all the people who you met,
were incarcerated to end that cycle.
I think.
So what I am reading supports that idea.
I keep encountering it.
Um, various, um, wisdomteachers, psychology.
think it's a good path.
(33:05):
It's working for me.
Mm-hmm.
In addition to reading your books thatyou've produced, that you've created
and are sh sharing, are there a fewbooks that you would want to recommend
to someone to read that helps withthis, of how to address this pain that
(33:27):
we all have and to acknowledge it?
So it doesn't become somethingburied, and it allows us to be good
citizens in life and help others
and share that happiness.
Well, yes, I feel like.
. I feel a certain reluctance insuggesting, spiritual books because
(33:48):
I feel like I would rather somebodyjust go into a bookstore and we've
got two beautiful ones here in
Mm-hmm
and just hiccup books.
Read the first paragraph or so,open it up in the middle, see
if it just resonates with you.
See if that voice, that wayof addressing, um, life.
(34:09):
, feels meaningful.
Um, otherwise, You know, for me,I read Eckhart, read Pam Schroen.
I read so many different, different books.
I have stacks of them allaround, and I don't even start
on page one and go through.
I'll start on page one and thenI'll go to another book and see what
they might say about that subject.
(34:30):
But, um, as far as just dealingwith our pain and how it, it.
We go into denial andhow it affects our body.
I really admire Gabo mate's work.
He has, uh, books about addiction.
He has a book about a d d, he has a bookabout, His, that's his, uh, newest one.
(34:50):
He has about a book about, How thebody says no, which is his, manuscript
about denying things in our life andpushing them down into our bodies
and our bodies, then express them.
so yeah, there's, there's a lotof wonderful books out there and I
think Abord be great to start with.
I think Eckhart totally.
(35:11):
It'd be great to start with.
I've, I've read EckhartToley, one of his books.
this is new for me to hear.
Gabo Matte.
Yes.
Could you spell Matt mate for me?
M A T e Mark on the E
M a
t
T E.
e with accent.
Beautiful
(35:31):
Thank you Tina.
I love sharing quotes and from booksthat I read and sharing, I created a
library here and share it with pe myfriends and people that I work with.
And I think sharing books is, A beautifulway to help spread kindness in the world,
I agree.
(35:51):
and I appreciate you sharing some authors.
I also appreciate you sharing yourexperience and putting it in the format
of a book so we can all learn from yourexperience Learn from the brave people
who allowed themselves to be vulnerableand share their journal writings with you
(36:13):
and how you help them
That's the key.
Being vulnerable.
Hmm
Yeah.
As soon as we're vulnerable, we're kindof shunting aside our ego, which likes
to be in charge, which likes to post sooften as you were referring to, you know?
But if we, work on that sense ofwillingness to be vulnerable in the
(36:34):
world and with each other, that's abig, big leap in, in a single word.
Well said Tina, I thinkthat's a wonderful way to
end the conversation today.
And where can people find your book?
Tuesday in jail.
Tuesdays in jail.
Tuesday's in jail is at ValleyBookstore, right downtown across
(36:56):
the street from Persephone, andit's at the book Trader out on the
highway, and also in their, in Wilson.
Okay.
And when will people beginto see the medallion?
And you said that was the,what, what award again?
Was it
the Nautilus book Award, and
(37:17):
Nautilus
my shiny, um, circles to thestores today to slap on my book.
Proudly.
Yes.
Yes,
Proudly.
And Tina, if people wanted to connectwith you, what is a great way for people
to reach out and connect with you?
Well, I think, check into theJackson Hole Writer's conferences.
(37:37):
One way
Mm-hmm
open to, um, emails.
I'm Tina Welling, author@gmail.comand I always respond.
That's terrific.
Well, is there still availabilityfor people to join your, um, your
class that you will be leading, atthe writer's conference this year?
(37:59):
Yes, there is.
There are openings.
The Writer's Conference issomething I have been involved
in for 20 some years, just.
Probably a couple yearsafter they started.
First as a writer and just a volunteer,and then eventually got published and now
I get to be on the faculty and I teach.
So I'll be teaching a memoirworkshop, which will involve
(38:21):
mostly just writing a lot of thequestions that I use for the, inmates
workshops that will get us started.
It'll just be a couple hours onFriday night to on of June 23rd
to just write and write and write.
and I did get to interview TimSandlin, who I believe is involved,
or he was one of the
(38:41):
founders.
Yeah And it was a joy to be able to speakwith him, and it's been an absolute joy
to, to have this time with you, Tina.
I appreciate it.
Thank you s Stephan.
I enjoyed it thoroughly myself.
You're welcome.
Well, have a great day, Tina, andhave a successful and happy, writer's
conference and keep on makinga difference in people's lives.
(39:01):
Thank you, Ste.
You're welcome.
To learn more about Tina Welling and herbook Tuesdays in Jail, visit the jackson
hole connection.com, episode number 246.
Thank you everybody for listeningtoday Get out and share this
podcast with your friends andfamilies, Instagram and Facebook.
If you know, if somebody would liketo be a guest, send us their name.
(39:24):
We'd love to have.
Take care everybody.
Look forward to seeing you backhere for the next episode of
the Jackson Hole Connection.
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