March 7, 2024 • 15 mins
In this radio episode, JayMac embarks on a deeply personal and candid exploration of his initial skepticism towards the Me Too Movement, before truly understanding its importance and ultimately becoming one of its advocates. This journey was prompted initially by the backlash against Bill Cosby, a man the host had long admired and respected.
The host confesses to being one of those, who would question why victims did not come forward sooner and viewed delayed accusations with suspicion. However, a hard-hitting personal encounter and extensive research into victim psychology compelled the host to reevaluate their views, leading to an awakening about the struggles of victims and the societal conditioning that often silences them.
The episode emphasizes the empowering effect of the collective voice demonstrated by the Me Too movement - giving victims the courage to stand up against their abusers without feeling alone. Expressing regret over their previous stance, the host urges others to research and understand the psyche of the abused before passing their judgment.
On a critical note, the host raises concerns about some possible overreaches of the movement which could endanger the principle of innocent until proven guilty. The episode ends with a plea to achieve a balanced approach – ensuring every allegation is treated with seriousness and every accused is given a fair chance to defend their innocence.
The episode seeks to promote understanding, empathy, and fairness in the treatment of sexual misconduct allegations. It marks an impactful journey from ignorance and skepticism to apology and understanding – a journey that hopes to influence the public’s perception of victims and the Me Too movement.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
You know, people often ask me or accuse me of never changing my opinions.
You know, we'll have a debate and we'll go back and forth and they'll be like,
you never, ever change your opinions.
And so I don't even know why I try.
And it's absolutely not true that the problem is that, you know, I've been doing this.
(00:23):
I've been on the radio for 25 plus years. years.
So I have been professionally debating people and researching and looking into all of these issues.
So I don't enter a debate or a situation where I probably haven't done a whole lot of research.
(00:44):
So it's going to take a lot to get me off of that position.
But it's not true that I never change.
In fact, I thought I would take a minute and share with you my journey with
the Me Too movement of all things.
This is one of those cases where I had a hard.
(01:08):
I had a hard situation to face, an internal assessment of how I had looked at things my whole life.
And I had a really rude awakening.
And that awakening has changed me
completely and how I view certain issues surrounding the Me Too movement.
(01:33):
So here's kind of where it all started for me.
I grew up as the biggest Bill Cosby fan that you could ever,
ever experience in your life.
My stepdad had the Bill Cosby vinyl records, and I would play those over and over and over again.
(01:57):
And I memorized every story, and I could deliver it just like Bill Cosby,
to the the point where my parents would come out when we had guests over and
they'd say, do chocolate cake, do this story, do that story.
I was so in love with, uh, with these stories and with this man, I was so enamored by him.
(02:22):
And then, uh, of course the Cosby show comes out and it's the same type hype of humor.
And I just I thought so highly of this man.
And actually, I had the chance to interview him twice as a talk radio host.
It's just a dream come true.
(02:42):
Although I have to tell you, you don't interview Bill Cosby. You just interview him.
And he just started going, just started, you know, riffing and doing his stuff.
And you would just sit back and you would laugh. So when the rumors started
to come out, when the allegations started to come out.
(03:04):
About what he did or what he was accused of doing, I immediately got defensive.
I immediately, because this was somebody who I had held in such high regard,
I immediately got defensive and I kind of bowed up.
And, you know, a lot of these allegations were for from, from,
(03:27):
you know, five, 10, I don't know, 15 years before it happened.
And that angered me.
I was frustrated by that. In fact, I went on the radio and I said,
why didn't you come forward back then?
Why didn't you come forward and make those allegations back then?
(03:49):
Then there would have been a way to prove it. We would have had witnesses for
timelines and all those things. Come on, this is just a money grab or something else.
And I went on the radio several times protecting this man, not having any knowledge of what was reality.
(04:09):
And so you know my radio career continues
and I end up here in
Utah on KSL and now there's a
trial going on with Bill Cosby and there's
more accusers and those kind of things that I hadn't changed my position and
so I go on the air and I give this spiel right I give my monologue about how
(04:35):
women should come forward quickly if they wanted to be considered credible.
And why would they wait?
And then that night, after I gave the monologue, I received an email from somebody very close to me.
(04:55):
And this email was very candid and very personal.
And this woman described how she had been raped.
And this woman described how she had been assaulted.
By a man who was in a position of power, and she, even to that date,
(05:22):
had not come forward yet.
And she explained to me all of the emotion behind that, why she decided not to come forward.
This was a person of authority. Who were they going to believe, this person or her?
And not only that, what would it bring upon her, the perception of her by other
(05:50):
people knowing that this happened?
What are you going to do, file criminal charges? If you don't file criminal
charges and your company doesn't do anything, then what happens?
And you are the one who has to deal with all of the shame.
And this letter was very long and it was very candid and uh it cut me it cut me,
(06:20):
um because i hadn't ever looked at this from the point of view of a woman what
a surprise a white man on the radio who had never looked at the issue from the eyes of a woman.
And so I went and I started to research victimology, I guess you would call it.
(06:46):
I started to research the psychological effects of being abused.
And, you know, it wasn't only women being abused.
I mean, you had all of these people coming out from different churches,
different organizations. The Me Too movement was not just about women.
(07:09):
And then you had these other stars, these other powerful people.
All of the sudden, people felt empowered to come forward. And that in itself is kind of.
It kind of strengthens the belief about victimology, because when people felt
(07:34):
like they would be alone in their allegation, they wouldn't come forward.
Because they'd be standing alone and who's going to believe them?
But suddenly when you had all of these people coming forward at once, there was strength.
I'm not alone. That's why the name Me Too.
(07:56):
I think it's a perfect name.
And I've come to be really repentant of my participation, of going on the radio,
speaking to thousands of people and sharing pure ignorance,
(08:16):
pure ignorance.
I hope because I still hear people say it all the time, why didn't they come forward?
I hope that before you make this type of statement that you will do a little
bit of research, about the psychology that happens to somebody who has been victimized,
(08:39):
about how they will feel that it's their fault.
And that's another reason why they don't want to come forward.
We come from a time in history where people were told it was their fault.
Well, well, what did you do? What did you say? What did you wear?
(09:02):
And we've come a long way, and Me Too was a huge part of that.
So I hope that you will consider these things before you make that type of statement,
because it could be very damaging.
Now, like so many things, when we fight an injustice, there is a tendency to
(09:30):
push the pendulum too far to the other side.
This happens a lot when we're fighting injustice.
And what happens is we were over here where nobody was being listened to and
these crimes were happening and it's just nobody would believe them.
(09:52):
And then slowly we're pushing and we're like, hey, we're making progress and we're making progress.
And now we're going to start to take these women is credible.
Now we're going to start to listen.
And there should come a point where we say, OK,
now there is a proper way for anybody who has been victimized to make a claim, have that claim heard,
(10:19):
have their day in court or at work or with H.R.
Or wherever wherever that allegation belongs, and then accountability can be had.
But what happens is people keep pushing, and they keep pushing that pendulum.
And so now what starts to happen is people who are accused don't have an opportunity
(10:48):
to have innocence until proven guilty.
They don't have the ability in the court of public opinion to somehow be considered,
you know, falsely accused because that happens as well.
And so what happened with with part of this movement,
(11:10):
not the whole movement, but what happened with part of it is that we push the
pendulum so far that we said we believe every woman or we believe every accuser.
That's too far. That's too far.
What we should be saying is that we will consider every allegation and that
(11:36):
every allegation should be properly investigated and that both sides have the opportunity to,
you know, it may not be a court case,
but both sides have the opportunity to be considered as credible.
(11:56):
Credible and that's to me that's it's
it's a tough place but it's right in the middle right that
uh we don't push it so far that instantly
we believe every allegation and people's lives
are ruined without any attempt whatsoever to verify the allegation that's too
(12:18):
far but we don't want to go back to the place where we're telling women and
the accused you you're You're not credible because you didn't come forward sooner.
Or what did you do to cause this abuse?
And we need to consider this with every injustice. There's a tendency to push that pendulum back.
(12:38):
There's a nice spot in the middle where the issue belongs, but we continue to push.
And next thing you know, what we were fighting against is happening to the other side.
And now they're facing what was happening over here.
(13:00):
So we have to be very careful when allegations are made.
I do believe that both sides should be considered credible.
And then investigation should be made.
And both should have the opportunity to defend themselves.
(13:20):
And that we should never be in a place where the woman is always right.
Or the accused is always right or wrong and that we give everybody the opportunity.
To not have their lives destroyed that's why part of me thinks these things
(13:40):
shouldn't be public somehow there should be a way for them to be adjudicated
outside of the public eye i understand why they end up in the public,
because people feel like they're not getting a proper response from their employer
or the organization they're with.
So I'm not going to suggest, please don't understand that I'm suggesting we're
(14:04):
right where we're supposed to be with Me Too and assault and those things.
I'm not suggesting that. I do believe that elements of that have crept too far. are.
But I do think we still have some work to do.
So just something to consider and just some honesty from me.
(14:25):
I was absolutely wrong. I know that I hurt people. I apologize to those people that I hurt.
And I hope that in some small way, this video helps people heal a little bit. it.
So thank you for listening. And the next time an allegation comes out,
(14:47):
I hope that this conversation will help you in how you're going to proceed with
your judgment in the court of public opinion.
You know, people often ask me or accuse me of never changing my opinions.
You know, we'll have a debate and we'll go back and forth and they'll be like,
you never, ever change your opinions.
And so I don't even know why I try.
And it's absolutely not true that the problem is that, you know, I've been doing this.
(00:23):
I've been on the radio for 25 plus years. years.
So I have been professionally debating people and researching and looking into all of these issues.
So I don't enter a debate or a situation where I probably haven't done a whole lot of research.
(00:44):
So it's going to take a lot to get me off of that position.
But it's not true that I never change.
In fact, I thought I would take a minute and share with you my journey with
the Me Too movement of all things.
This is one of those cases where I had a hard.
(01:08):
I had a hard situation to face, an internal assessment of how I had looked at things my whole life.
And I had a really rude awakening.
And that awakening has changed me
completely and how I view certain issues surrounding the Me Too movement.
(01:33):
So here's kind of where it all started for me.
I grew up as the biggest Bill Cosby fan that you could ever,
ever experience in your life.
My stepdad had the Bill Cosby vinyl records, and I would play those over and over and over again.
(01:57):
And I memorized every story, and I could deliver it just like Bill Cosby,
to the the point where my parents would come out when we had guests over and
they'd say, do chocolate cake, do this story, do that story.
I was so in love with, uh, with these stories and with this man, I was so enamored by him.
(02:22):
And then, uh, of course the Cosby show comes out and it's the same type hype of humor.
And I just I thought so highly of this man.
And actually, I had the chance to interview him twice as a talk radio host.
It's just a dream come true.
(02:42):
Although I have to tell you, you don't interview Bill Cosby. You just interview him.
And he just started going, just started, you know, riffing and doing his stuff.
And you would just sit back and you would laugh. So when the rumors started
to come out, when the allegations started to come out.
(03:04):
About what he did or what he was accused of doing, I immediately got defensive.
I immediately, because this was somebody who I had held in such high regard,
I immediately got defensive and I kind of bowed up.
And, you know, a lot of these allegations were for from, from,
(03:27):
you know, five, 10, I don't know, 15 years before it happened.
And that angered me.
I was frustrated by that. In fact, I went on the radio and I said,
why didn't you come forward back then?
Why didn't you come forward and make those allegations back then?
(03:49):
Then there would have been a way to prove it. We would have had witnesses for
timelines and all those things. Come on, this is just a money grab or something else.
And I went on the radio several times protecting this man, not having any knowledge of what was reality.
(04:09):
And so you know my radio career continues
and I end up here in
Utah on KSL and now there's a
trial going on with Bill Cosby and there's
more accusers and those kind of things that I hadn't changed my position and
so I go on the air and I give this spiel right I give my monologue about how
(04:35):
women should come forward quickly if they wanted to be considered credible.
And why would they wait?
And then that night, after I gave the monologue, I received an email from somebody very close to me.
(04:55):
And this email was very candid and very personal.
And this woman described how she had been raped.
And this woman described how she had been assaulted.
By a man who was in a position of power, and she, even to that date,
(05:22):
had not come forward yet.
And she explained to me all of the emotion behind that, why she decided not to come forward.
This was a person of authority. Who were they going to believe, this person or her?
And not only that, what would it bring upon her, the perception of her by other
(05:50):
people knowing that this happened?
What are you going to do, file criminal charges? If you don't file criminal
charges and your company doesn't do anything, then what happens?
And you are the one who has to deal with all of the shame.
And this letter was very long and it was very candid and uh it cut me it cut me,
(06:20):
um because i hadn't ever looked at this from the point of view of a woman what
a surprise a white man on the radio who had never looked at the issue from the eyes of a woman.
And so I went and I started to research victimology, I guess you would call it.
(06:46):
I started to research the psychological effects of being abused.
And, you know, it wasn't only women being abused.
I mean, you had all of these people coming out from different churches,
different organizations. The Me Too movement was not just about women.
(07:09):
And then you had these other stars, these other powerful people.
All of the sudden, people felt empowered to come forward. And that in itself is kind of.
It kind of strengthens the belief about victimology, because when people felt
(07:34):
like they would be alone in their allegation, they wouldn't come forward.
Because they'd be standing alone and who's going to believe them?
But suddenly when you had all of these people coming forward at once, there was strength.
I'm not alone. That's why the name Me Too.
(07:56):
I think it's a perfect name.
And I've come to be really repentant of my participation, of going on the radio,
speaking to thousands of people and sharing pure ignorance,
(08:16):
pure ignorance.
I hope because I still hear people say it all the time, why didn't they come forward?
I hope that before you make this type of statement that you will do a little
bit of research, about the psychology that happens to somebody who has been victimized,
(08:39):
about how they will feel that it's their fault.
And that's another reason why they don't want to come forward.
We come from a time in history where people were told it was their fault.
Well, well, what did you do? What did you say? What did you wear?
(09:02):
And we've come a long way, and Me Too was a huge part of that.
So I hope that you will consider these things before you make that type of statement,
because it could be very damaging.
Now, like so many things, when we fight an injustice, there is a tendency to
(09:30):
push the pendulum too far to the other side.
This happens a lot when we're fighting injustice.
And what happens is we were over here where nobody was being listened to and
these crimes were happening and it's just nobody would believe them.
(09:52):
And then slowly we're pushing and we're like, hey, we're making progress and we're making progress.
And now we're going to start to take these women is credible.
Now we're going to start to listen.
And there should come a point where we say, OK,
now there is a proper way for anybody who has been victimized to make a claim, have that claim heard,
(10:19):
have their day in court or at work or with H.R.
Or wherever wherever that allegation belongs, and then accountability can be had.
But what happens is people keep pushing, and they keep pushing that pendulum.
And so now what starts to happen is people who are accused don't have an opportunity
(10:48):
to have innocence until proven guilty.
They don't have the ability in the court of public opinion to somehow be considered,
you know, falsely accused because that happens as well.
And so what happened with with part of this movement,
(11:10):
not the whole movement, but what happened with part of it is that we push the
pendulum so far that we said we believe every woman or we believe every accuser.
That's too far. That's too far.
What we should be saying is that we will consider every allegation and that
(11:36):
every allegation should be properly investigated and that both sides have the opportunity to,
you know, it may not be a court case,
but both sides have the opportunity to be considered as credible.
(11:56):
Credible and that's to me that's it's
it's a tough place but it's right in the middle right that
uh we don't push it so far that instantly
we believe every allegation and people's lives
are ruined without any attempt whatsoever to verify the allegation that's too
(12:18):
far but we don't want to go back to the place where we're telling women and
the accused you you're You're not credible because you didn't come forward sooner.
Or what did you do to cause this abuse?
And we need to consider this with every injustice. There's a tendency to push that pendulum back.
(12:38):
There's a nice spot in the middle where the issue belongs, but we continue to push.
And next thing you know, what we were fighting against is happening to the other side.
And now they're facing what was happening over here.
(13:00):
So we have to be very careful when allegations are made.
I do believe that both sides should be considered credible.
And then investigation should be made.
And both should have the opportunity to defend themselves.
(13:20):
And that we should never be in a place where the woman is always right.
Or the accused is always right or wrong and that we give everybody the opportunity.
To not have their lives destroyed that's why part of me thinks these things
(13:40):
shouldn't be public somehow there should be a way for them to be adjudicated
outside of the public eye i understand why they end up in the public,
because people feel like they're not getting a proper response from their employer
or the organization they're with.
So I'm not going to suggest, please don't understand that I'm suggesting we're
(14:04):
right where we're supposed to be with Me Too and assault and those things.
I'm not suggesting that. I do believe that elements of that have crept too far. are.
But I do think we still have some work to do.
So just something to consider and just some honesty from me.
(14:25):
I was absolutely wrong. I know that I hurt people. I apologize to those people that I hurt.
And I hope that in some small way, this video helps people heal a little bit. it.
So thank you for listening. And the next time an allegation comes out,
(14:47):
I hope that this conversation will help you in how you're going to proceed with
your judgment in the court of public opinion.
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